Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 03:14:10 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Feedback Message:

Kelly, I have copied your post and inserted carrotted comments where the spirit moved me: On screen heading, “The Fundamentals” The following extract is a straight, uncut sequence. Maharaji… “Knowledge, and all things associated with it, are compliments of the Master. >OK, thank you very much. The Master doesn’t want knowledge sessions to happen, Guess what? They’re not happening. >Hey, it's your gig, whatever. But I thought that was your mission and your father's agya to you. Why would you not have Knowledge sessions, with all due respect? The Master changes the rules, creates the rules, disposes of these rules, as the Master wishes. >I got it. You are strawbossing this gig. Got it. The possibility of knowledge is brought to you by the compliments of your friendly Master. (laughter and applause) >I don't know enough to say anything else but hey, thanks for crossing the world so that I could receive Knowledge. Even though I have some real issues with you as a person (if that's allowed), you did facilitate my receiving Knowledge. And it does feel good. Now, I’m not getting into the logistics of it OK? I understand it is the people who are interested make many of these things a physical reality. >Yes, you did say that premies in service to you are your hands and feet. 'We the people'... But, the key frame here is, compliments..the Master says, yes this is OK to do, you may talk about knowledge, you may not talk about knowledge. Both have to be taken with the same stride. >Got it. You are the man. If you’re borrowing your neighbour’s car, the neighbour says yes you may drive it, then one day he may say ..No you may not drive it, I want my car back. >'Scuse me? Not in my wildest metaphors (and God knows I come up with some doozies) would I ever compare Maharaji to my neighbor, Knowledge to his car, and myself to a neighbor who is borrowing his car. My understanding from the Master is that a) Knowledge was always inside us, b) It's a GIFT! Now I hear it's on loan. Which way is it? Gift and loan are two very different scenarios with two very different requirements. Gift requires gratitude. Loan requires repayment. >IF THIS IS SO SIMPLE AS YOU SAY IT IS, WHY IS IT SO GODDAMMED COMPLICATED NOW? WHY ARE THERE SO MANY HUMAN CASUALTIES STREWN AL0NG YOUR GOLDEN WAY WHO CAME TO LOVE AND SERVE JUST LIKE I DID? SURELY THEY CAN'T ALL BE CRAZY OR INSANELY PLOTTING AGAINST YOU FOR NO REASON. You have to realize….Ownership of knowledge resides with the Master… >You said it was a GIFT, FREE, NO CHARGE. Remember? Hearing about knowledge is a privilege….Being able to talk about knowledge is a privilege, it’s not a right, it’s a privilege. …Receiving knowledge is a privilege…Being able to practice knowledge is a privilege…..Being able to participate is a privilege.” (Audience of invited guests nodding and smiling) >Yes, Life itself is a privilege and all good things that come along with it including all the things you mentioned. And I am exercising a privilege too, by boldly approaching the throne of grace and asking without fear of being upbraided, what the hell is going on? What is up with Susan and Abi and all the others who have been messed with under the umbrella of your authority even though you personally had nothing to do with it? Another extract entitled “A little History” Maharaji….” When a lot of the Mahatmas came to the West, they brought with them immeasurable amount of concepts, and it kinda went wild, and there was no stopping it. >Who prepped them for the journey West? Who gave them agya how to be? What to say? How to represent their purpose? Are you saying they all disobeyed your agya and went haywire when they got here? Why blame it all on the Mahatmas? And why wasn't there any stopping it? You had their devotion and attention. Couldn't you have stopped it just by saying you wanted it stopped? The backlash of that, I had to directly bear. Because people would ask me point blank these questions…”Are you this? Are you that, you know, What is this? What is that?“ >Are you saying that you did not personally approve all the publications of Divine Times and all the other printed matter? Are you saying that you really did not want us to sing Arti to you morning and night? Are you saying that all the satsangs and photos you personally approved of that you wanted destroyed were bogus, just tools to reel us in back in the 70's? The backlash that you had to bear was yours to bear, with all due respect, just as I have had to bear all the backlash about Jagdeo and all the rest trying to communicate with my fellow human beings here on this site. They are not all troublemakers, not all bongos, not all even your enemies. Some are just very hurt and pissed, and would sincerely appreciate some sort of an explanation as to the details of how they got caught up in the cogs of the organizations that represented you. I know you can stay behind the curtains and make the lights and smoke do their thing, like in the Wizard of Oz...but if you really are human, now would be a great time to show it here, with all due respect, but serious as a heart attack. “So, that’s the good news, the bad news is that the concepts have really gotten us in a hole to this day, where we’re still having to defend ourselves, which I find pathetic (he spits this out) having to defend ourselves and say.. No.. these things are not true. So we cannot afford to perpetuate any concepts. >What concepts? Please be specific so we can talk with some hope of focussing on what especially are the problem concepts, who perpetuated them and how they can be unperpetuated. Knowledge works…look, you know, lets face it, knowledge works. >I enjoy Knowledge when I get into it. But like any other gift that is given to me, if some bad shit happens between me and the giver of any gift, that gift (or the using of it) is sort of tainted, you know, until the shit is cleared up. Surely you can understand that...so I am just running on the Grace of Almighty God right now, speaking the truth and fearing no man, until I feel better about this relationship. The Master, when given the right environment, does his thing, and it’s great. It all works. >Same goes for the devotee. The devotee, when given the right environment, does his/her thing, and it's great. What we need to determine is 'right environment'. Whatever we forge for the future, we have to remember.. where.. we.. came from, and we have to remember, most importantly, how incredibly dangerous, incredibly dangerous, this stuff is….. >The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not want....yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I shall fear no evil, for Thou art with me... Shooting your mouth off is not innocent by any stretch of the imagination….What you say in your…fuzzy feeling…you know what I mean…fuzzy feeling? When you’re feeling nice and oooh sooo inspired, can be deadly dangerous. What you say cannot have any tolerance for mistakes….. >That last sentence basically says that there is no room for error when premies speak. That sounds like a taller order than marriage, which you also once said was a tall order. Good luck! What do you think?….Does this far of the history make any sense? And why I’m bringing this up? Because I see you in the same shoes. There’s a lot more of you than there were of them…..Comprende?…..Just playing Russian roulette with a lot more guns. Your chances go up. I don’t want to be in those shoes. I don’t think these mistakes have to happen and I don’t think these mistakes need to be there” >Please translate into plain English. If I read you clearly, it all began way before almost anyone present was involved, it began with your awareness and you let it slide for years. Now if that which you allude to comes home to roost, you will blame it on someone else too? Amazing. So Kelly, this is my feedback straight from the hip, the heart, the place inside me that seems to know. Sandy

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 09:10:02 (GMT) From: Chad (just hangin') Email: None To: all Subject: A small, cautionary note Message:

Not to disturb anyone's entertainment but... You might factor in that you're (in this thread) responding so vehemently and self-righteously to what? ....a skewed, selective, subjective, somewhat misquoted and fun-house mirror rendition of an address you didn't actually hear or see. (Do you so passionately and authoritatively review Bruce Willis movies, based on somebody else's reaction?) Not to mention that, to this observer, the context, vibe, meaning and tone were entirely different than what was described here. Especially the feeling, which still, in the 21st century, means more than 2/3 of the words. Citing cases (Aristotle, da Vinci, Einstein, Jesus, Ram, Miles Davis, King, Dylan, Lennon, Zoroaster, Zorro, Shakespeare, Hendrix, Jefferson and Pythagoras). WIS 33155B I respectfully dissent. From Kelly's perspective, 'all this was delivered, in that pompous, petulant, arrogant way he speaks, with frequent long pregnant pauses and raised eyebrows. So supercilious, so condescending, so insulting to the audience who are all people who have given up their lives to help him.' Just as, to Michael Dettmers, jokes from 22 years ago have now, in the year 2000 (somewhere between May and October) apparently become insensitive and hurtful. (I guess not so) needless to say, it didn't feel like that at all to me or the people who were actually there. To the people that enjoy him, many of whom actually still exist and thrive and whom you might immediately groove with, if you met them at the market, not a single one of Kelly's adjectives is remotely accurate. They might apply to Mussolini, James Baker or Margeret Thatcher but Maharaji....get a grip...at that point it starts to sound like you have clearly forgotten the character you're talking about and have created a mythical scapegoat and bogeyman based on distance and doubt. There's no connection to reality, just a strange syndrome which could be named, Reverse Wishful Thinking. I'm sure some clever critter will find a way to work Rawat into that acronym. My gut instinct tells me, that to Kelly or anyone else who is attempting to view Maharaji (or anybody else, for that matter, including husband or friend) through a cloud of distance, babble, suspicion and doubt, he could say, 'how're you doin', Kelly?' or 'good morning' and it might immediately assume equally demonic and sinister properties. To someone who's been around him recently and who's heard and felt where he is, it all sounds more than a little silly. And self-righteous. And severely skewed, distorted and spun ...worse than a Republican picnic (with lotsa flags and overcooked burgers). Just an observation. Have fun.

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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 01:10:31 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Chad (just hangin') Subject: You are really a piece of work.. Message:

Especially the feeling, which still, in the 21st century, means more than 2/3 of the words Whose feeling, Chad? Yours, or Kelly's and why, tell me, is yours any more valid than hers. (I guess not so) needless to say, it didn't feel like that at all to me or the people who were actually there And just how do you know how 'the people who were actually there' were feeling? Are you omniscent? Are you deluded? Engaging in magical thinking? at that point it starts to sound like you have clearly forgotten the character you're talking about and have created a mythical scapegoat and bogeyman based on distance and doubt. And who have YOU created, Danny? Are you so egotistical that you think YOU are seeing Maharaji for what he really is, but people who see him as an egomaniacal fraud aren't? Why don't you try and use your brain and just admit you DISAGREE with Kelly, instead of trying to pontificate on what is reality, you pompous ass? Read the Vedas lately, Danny. You always seemed to be gloating about how spiritual and high you were, perhaps that hasn't changed. Who is sounding silly and self-righteous, or perhaps is in the cult?

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Date: Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 01:52:08 (GMT) From: Chad Email: None To: Joe Subject: Danny? Message:

Who are you talking to?

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 22:01:06 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: Chad (just hangin') Subject: Fuck off Danny , your paw prints are all over Message:

this here Chad. Just as well you weren't counting the votes.

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 17:50:59 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Chad (just hangin') Subject: A few non-cautionary questions for chad... Message:

Chad-I was wondering if you would care to comment on maharaji's off stage behavior...do you know about it?...can you make sense of it?...are you afraid to look at it?...does it seem to jive with the satsang he gives?...would you have the balls to ask maharaji some of these questions?...do you think you would ever be given the chance , by him, to do so?(don't say he doesn't have the time-he could easily make a one hour video addressing everyone's complaints and issues about his actions...it would take him about, let's say, one hour,right? that's if he really wanted to...)...are you comfortable with introducing maharaji to new people, giving them the nice clean message about knowledge and the master, but conveniently leaving out the drugs and alcohol addictions, mistresses, abortions,funny-money(lots of this),mansions,yachts,jets,needless cars,wierd power tripping and game playing he does with close devotees, general lying by attempting to revise the past about playing God...ALL OF THIS, courtesy of your friendly master, financed by YOU, the unsuspecting new student, through your donations to an organization you are led to believe will bring world peace, but which has a drop out rate of 90-95% so far, and these were his supporters! You might be hanging now, Chad, but if you open your real eyes and ears and heart, something somewhere is gonna punch you through...through to the other side where you can finally be free to see for yourself, think for yourself, feel for yourself,be yourself, know yourself...all by yourself...courtesy of your friendly OWN SELF!

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 16:39:21 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: Chad (just hangin') Subject: A small, cautionary note Message:

Chad, I’m glad you’re hanging, does it hurt? I expected this sort of reaction. Have you read my post below entitled “My take on your take.Brilliant.” If not, I wish you would do. In it, I try to imagine how a fully dedicated, fully deluded premie might respond. (I was one only a short time ago) They’d be sure to say that I’d been selective and taken things out of context. So I made it clear that this was a video of a recent satellite broadcast. No I wasn’t there, but I still have a copy of the video. It was the most heavily edited, chopped about video I have ever seen, and I’ve seen a few! So who’s being selective? Visions do it all the time. M certainly does it. He doesn’t want us to see the real man behind the stage persona. The man who still tells obscene and offensive jokes, and I’ve heard a few of those. The mistresses, the cognac and the cigars, the rudeness and the bad temper. No, he doesn’t want us to see that! Anyway, I digress. The point is that the passages I chose were straight un-cut sequences, and when I missed a bit out, I said so. Also, I was punctilious to transcribe them accurately…They are verbatim. The Man Is Condemned Out Of His Own Mouth So we sound “silly and self-righteous” do we? And” severely skewed, distorted and spun” I can’t believe you said that. Didn’t you hear him? All that stuff about the, mahatmas bringing the concepts, like he had nothing to do with it? And ownership of knowledge? Can you really go along with all that? You can’t have heard him. Maybe you’re one of those blind faithers who just let his words wash over them. (The starry eyed syndrome.) Maharaji is the Master of Spin. Kelly

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 16:08:48 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Chad (just hangin') Subject: Cautionary? Who sends veiled threats here? Message:

Dear Chad, I have copied your post and inserted my repsonses to you carrotted for easy reading: Not to disturb anyone's entertainment but... >Just the fact that you suggest this is primarily 'entertaining' shows me that you don't feel something very important, something that you would take VERY seriously and feel very much if you were in some of their shoes. You might factor in that you're (in this thread) responding so vehemently and self-righteously to what? >Maybe what you call vehemence is called for and justified here. (Vehemence: having or showing strong feeling, showing strong feeling). But self-righteous? You definitely have the lock on that. You present yourself in anonymity and drop a veiled threat by using the word 'cautionary'. What should we be cautious of? Having strong feelings about our life experience? God forbid. ....a skewed, selective, subjective, somewhat misquoted and fun-house mirror rendition of an address you didn't actually hear or see. (Do you so passionately and authoritatively review Bruce Willis movies, based on somebody else's reaction?) Not to mention that, to this observer, the context, vibe, meaning and tone were entirely different than what was described here. Especially the feeling, which still, in the 21st century, means more than 2/3 of the words. Citing cases (Aristotle, da Vinci, Einstein, Jesus, Ram, Miles Davis, King, Dylan, Lennon, Zoroaster, Zorro, Shakespeare, Hendrix, Jefferson and Pythagoras). WIS 33155B >So everyone who doesn't hear what you hear is wrong.... I respectfully dissent. >Your words say 'I respectfully dissent', but the other 2/3 of your communication, as I hear it, says more on the line of 'You creep low-lifes suck, and I'm here to straighten you out.' From Kelly's perspective, 'all this was delivered, in that pompous, petulant, arrogant way he speaks, with frequent long pregnant pauses and raised eyebrows. So supercilious, so condescending, so insulting to the audience who are all people who have given up their lives to help him.' Just as, to Michael Dettmers, jokes from 22 years ago have now, in the year 2000 (somewhere between May and October) apparently become insensitive and hurtful. >Chad, you've been hangin' too long. You are not on and not off. You are just hangin'...what was a little joke of yours turns out to be where you seem to be really and truly at. In reply to your last misuse and abuse of the English language, when people are under the rule of a Master, when people have vowed their lives to him, given the 'reins of their lives' to him, some gravity gets created. Intertia sets in. People stop believing their own God-given transmissions of consciousness and inner experience and become mentally and psychically subordinate. I don't think that is the intended result, but it happens and we all know it. So basically, how can you question Michael Dettmers or anyone else who has come to a realization, no matter how long it took. The folks here are being very here and now about how they feel. If you seek to find orchestration of words, people and events, I suggest you look elsewhere. And I assure you that if you ever have a realization that took you years to discover, I will not bust your chops over it. (I guess not so) needless to say, it didn't feel like that at all to me or the people who were actually there. >Scuze me, did you take an exit poll of how people really and truly felt in their gut, or are you assuming that the smiles were all genuine and they obiviously showed all the same response? You can only speak for yourself, Chad. I respect your right to your feelings. Why can't you respect others' rights to theirs? We all need to be cautious, not just dissenters. To the people that enjoy him, many of whom actually still exist and thrive and whom you might immediately groove with, if you met them at the market, not a single one of Kelly's adjectives is remotely accurate. >The beauty was, is and always will be in the eye of the beholder. They might apply to Mussolini, James Baker or Margeret Thatcher >There are supporters of all those above-mentioned personalities who would advise YOU to be cautious here, Chad. but Maharaji....get a grip...at that point it starts to sound like you have clearly forgotten the character you're talking about and have created a mythical scapegoat and bogeyman based on distance and doubt. >...You mean like how Maharaji blamed the mahatmas who came west first for all the misunderstandings? >Chad, there is obviously something going on here that needs closer scrutiny than you seem to have given it. To many, Maharaji can do no wrong, is godlike in nature, and brings hope to the world for peace on an individual level, hopefully spreading person by person throughout the world. To others, Maharaji is someone who has said very strong things to attract a following, then has denied saying them, has blamed all the basic misunderstandings on his mahatmas, and has There's no connection to reality, just a strange syndrome which could be named, Reverse Wishful Thinking. I'm sure some clever critter will find a way to work Rawat into that acronym. >There's no connection to your reality maybe. But have you no respect of anyone else but yourself? Check out Voltaire and waht he said about rights and disagreements. And your cynicism and negativity in your comments about 'reverse wishful thinking' a 'some clever critter yadda yadda yadda..' just salts the wounds and does not acknowledge anyone's feelings but your own cynical ones. Humility and compassion are what I wish for you to receive this Christmas. My gut instinct tells me, that to Kelly or anyone else who is attempting to view Maharaji (or anybody else, for that matter, including husband or friend) through a cloud of distance, babble, suspicion and doubt, he could say, 'how're you doin', Kelly?' or 'good morning' and it might immediately assume equally demonic and sinister properties. >Maharaji once said there's him and then there's everybody else. I don't think you can fairly compare him to anyone else in terms of influence or power over someone. And like you said, 2/3 of the communication is unspoken. So there are many thousands of people running around this world with very different feelings (aside from the Knowledge and its beautiful experience), about Maharaji. If you are you, you feel how you feel. If you are Susan or Abi, or Abi's dad, or any number of young blonde female premies, you might feel different. If you were Michael Dettmers, you'd feel differently too. One size does not fit all. To someone who's been around him recently and who's heard and felt where he is, it all sounds more than a little silly. And self-righteous. And severely skewed, distorted and spun ...worse than a Republican picnic (with lotsa flags and overcooked burgers). >Do you contribute money to him or the organizations which do the administrative work such as EV? If you were 'around him', chances are your pockets are deeper than mine. Also, different people have different experiences with the same person. Haven't you ever had two friends who don't get along? >As for the 'being there' aspect of Maharaji and how folks who were not somewhere should not judge, etc....I remember him saying that if someone is attuned to him, distance doesn't matter...crosses bone, crosses flesh, crosses miles..remember? >I used to be giving satsang to friends in one city while Maharaji was having a program far away and after hearing what he talked about, it was uncanny how what I was saying was so much similar to what he was saying, down to subjects and such. I was resonating with him and it felt great. I don't feel that much lately,and I don't think I am the only one who has changed. Just an observation. >Yeah, me too. Sandy PS Why the anonymity if you are so connected?

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 08:02:50 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: shp Subject: I applaud your integrity Sandy nt Message:

nt

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 16:52:07 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: shp Subject: I applaud your integrity Sandy and double it! Message:

Sandy, great posts,I've printed them out to read again in detail. Talk to you soon. love Kelly

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 05:31:49 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: shp Subject: Elaine + you have GOT to read the shp's post! (nt) Message:

wow

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 05:35:50 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: Stonor Subject: shouldn't be 'the' - not 'the post above' (nt) Message:

shp's post

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 03:20:25 (GMT) From: Gordon Showcase Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Miragey's recent diatribe - he's right Message:

Maharaji's right. This careless talk really is dangerous and it's costing Maharaji millions of dollars a year in lost revenue. Do you people want to be responsible for ruining this poor man's financial empire which has taken him decades of hard slog to build up? You might all be a bunch of loosers and winers but Maharaji's a winner and doesn't need these complete idiots talking about him and his knowledge. Just because these morons have received his divine knowledge, they think they actually know something and have the God given right to spout forth their ridiculous views to the world. The truth is, Maharaji knows he's given this knowledge to a bunch of lowlife, mental retards because those are the sort of people who'll believe him and now he has to somehow shut them up before they do serious damage to his real and very important finances. I mean, what do these stupid premies know about wealth and finance - they all have their heads stuck in some pathetic ideal of peace and love. So for goodness sake, premies - shut up and listen to the friendly master and stop talking about Maharaji or knowledge and realise that you're pig ignorant and are of limited use to the master. He can do all this without you, you know. He doesn't need the likes of you to help him spread this knowledge. If he gives you a job of opening a door, then that is all you're fit for and you should desist in this idiotic notion that you can talk to people about anything to do with your so called 'experience'. Your experience is nothing. You know nothing and it's very dangerous to think otherwise.

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 09:23:43 (GMT) From: brian too Email: None To: Gordon Showcase Subject: Miragey's recent diatribe - he's right Message:

What have we got here? The world has just been put on notice that THE MASTER is about to change the rules and move the ends of the playing field. Funny how the opportunity for personal experience gets smaller and smaller with each turn. Used to be we could at least participate in an invigorating attempt to publicly convey our thoughts and experiences through nightly Satsang. Although much of the time there was spent listening to drivel some folks actually got very good at expressing themselves and inspiring others. Is this where things went wrong? inspiration and experience have no Master, and it would not be in the best interest of M for anyone of the lowly peons in the cheap seats to find that out. Who knows they might even garner a following of their own and erode away at the economic base. I personally know a man (not a former premie) who has about 50 followers who revere his every word and request. Small potatoes compared to M but still a comfortable living. And how about Jan Cox, http://www.jancox.com/ at least he does not claim license to to the keys to the kingdom. How can anyone claim ownership to enlightenment? There are so many places that exist right now that one can go and get these same techniques. Amoung others, Namely his Brother, M alone does not have a corner on the knowledge market. I would have a lot more respect for him if he would just say, I am just selling my brand of knowledge, you can try brand X but we have a 65% market share and our brand is very competitive when it come to results. Or something that, at least we would be informed consumers. If attachments are the curse to enlightenment, then giving up the attachment to Maharaji, or anyone like him, is a step along the way to liberation

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 13:52:30 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: brian too Subject: Exsuse Message:

Sorry to interrupt, but last time I saw you, you were crying murder. I have seen your other posts, but have not had the chance to read them. Can you update me as to where you're standing, Salam wondering why rawat sucks.

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 18:38:55 (GMT) From: sucha Email: None To: Salam Subject: He's finding own path:now obstacle disappearing(nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 18:13:34 (GMT) From: brian too Email: None To: Salam Subject: just looking at Message:

both sides,

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 00:11:30 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: brian too Subject: There are no both sides Message:

It is all lila. Maharaji is maya, an illusion, a mind, you need to focus and understand. Do not meditate, it mushes up your heads. Have a beer instead. You probably thinking oh yeah, but I am sounding like a devil. Bloody right. I am temptation, corruption, guru ass kicker and hater of lies. Do not take your time, it is not worth it. Look at it this way. Even if the guru is for real, so what? You won't understand nothing anyway, so why bother. Ask yourself, what do you want from him that you do not already know. It is all layed out straight in front of you. I think that if you read the other parts on this site, you will understand in a short period of few days a lot lot more that you understood in all your time being a zombie chasing after groomji. Can you tell me if he is capable of saving anything accept his ass. What is he saving you from? Do you really think that you can survive in this time without using your mind, you use it all the time, when you wake up, take a shower, read a paper, talk to someone,at work and fuck someone. You really think your getting peace out of no-lije? Come off it, if you did, then you should not be reading this. Maharaji is not god, perfect master or a teacher. He is only an ex-Indian home made guru. There are plenty around and they all claim to be the ONE and speak the same language. Do you really think that he knows that you even exist? Do you think that he care about you? For me there is not doubt about it, he has no idea. He is obssessed with the idea of bring peace and understanding to this world, his way. Because he thinks that he is right everyone else is wrong. He is after power and prestige. He can not face the truth that he is a failiar when it come to it. Well that was a good rap, don't you think so. Salam

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 04:31:19 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: Gordon Showcase Subject: Right On Brother - You Tell Em nt Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 01:10:39 (GMT) From: Patrick Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Miragey's recent diatribe - my take. Message:

'Knowledge, and all things associated with it, are compliments of the Master.' The dictionary says: Compliments =' An expression of formal respect, civility. A present'. Thus Maharaji says, Knowledge, and all things associated with it, are a given by him (to aspirants and premies) civilly and respectfully. As he goes on it becomes harder to see exactly where the civility and respect part comes in. 'The Master doesn’t want knowledge sessions to happen, Guess what? They’re not happening.' He is the one controlling the giving out of Knowledge and he can stop doing that whenever he likes. There is a veiled threat that he may withold giving Knowledge if anything (such as actions by the premies listening) give him cause to do so. If Knowledge sessions stop of course that’s bad. Thus he engenders fear in the audience who are acutely anxious that it not be their actions or mistakes which lead to him making this clearly dreadful decision. 'The Master changes the rules, creates the rules, disposes of these rules, as the Master wishes.' He can do as he likes and his pupils live in an uncertain world. This is clearly not a ‘master’ in the healthy sense of the word. It is well known that growing children (which could be said to analogous of pupils of a master) need an environment where their limits are well defined. A household where the father is always domineeringly changing the rules undermines the confidence and security of the children. The possibility of knowledge is brought to you by the compliments of your friendly Master. (laughter and applause) Tries to soften the unfriendly implications of his speech by absurdly suggesting that he is being friendly. Now, I’m not getting into the logistics of it OK? I understand it is the people who are interested who make many of these things a physical reality. But, the key frame here is, compliments. Belittles the fact that it is hugely thanks to the tireless and dedicated work of followers that he is able to do any of this. He wants to disempower them in the equation completely and empower himself above all. 'The Master says, yes this is OK to do, you may talk about knowledge, you may not talk about knowledge. Both have to be taken with the same stride. If you’re borrowing your neighbour’s car, the neighbour says yes you may drive it, then one day he may say ..No you may not drive it, I want my car back.' It is NOT your right to talk about Knowledge. That is what without any shadow of doubt he is saying here. This is very disturbing as it implies that he wants to control what people say about their own inner experience. Are we to suppose also that this Knowledge, which is within inside us is borrowed ? that our life itself – our very existence is borrowed ?? from him? What kind of a gift is it that someone gives you that you have no right to talk about??? It is a gift with the condition that you follow rules which change at his whim and you must not talk about if he tells you not to. Of course the Knowledge techniques are the prime secret that you are beholden to him to keep. The right to talk about it is stressed as being a privilege that may be removed at a moments notice. 'You have to realize….Ownership of knowledge resides with the Master…Hearing about knowledge is a privilege….Being able to talk about knowledge is a privilege, it’s not a right, it’s a privilege.…Receiving knowledge is a privilege…Being able to practice knowledge is a privilege…..Being able to participate is a privilege.' (Audience of invited guests nodding and smiling) He owns your experience. Great. You are beholden to him. The experience of your own Life Force is NOT YOUR RIGHT. It is not a human being’s birthright to know their God, but a privilege that is LENT to him , without any assurance that he can even speak about it, by this incontrovertibly imperfect man , who clearly claims that he is the Perfect Master. Another extract entitled 'A little History' Perhaps 'A little revisionism' would have been more apt. ' When a lot of the Mahatmas came to the West, they brought with them immeasurable amount of concepts, and it kinda went wild, and there was no stopping it.' Yes, and he tried SO HARD to stop it didn’t he? The backlash of that, I had to directly bear. Poor Maharaji had to suffer because all the mahatmas misrepresented him and Knowledge. All by himself, I think he may be trying to illicit a little symapathy here. Premies will give him heaps. 'How could we have allowed him to be so put out?' Time to get the flagellatory whips out. I’m sorry, but this line of blaming the Indian Mahatmas is grossly unfair. You only have to read Maharaji’s father’s satsang speeches and you can see where all the Indian concepts came from. Also it would not be hard to prove, by dredging up Maharaji’s own early speeches, that he brought 99% of those ‘immeasurable concepts' to the West himself. He whose every word all premie’s took as gospel . He who clearly said that we should dedicate our lives to him in the Ashram –be celibate (rule one) –be vegetarian (rule 2) – etc. etc. Anyway, so these immeasurable concepts… What is he talking about exactly? – and tell me someone please – what did the poor old Mahatmas tell us that was so frightful –Mine just told me to meditate exactly as Maharaji himself prescribed and to do everything else M aharaji demanded himself endlessly. Nothing more that I recall. So Maharaji’s revisionism fails to impress me a jot. In fact I am appalled at his lack of taking any responsibility for what he actually demanded from us back then. 'Because people would ask me point blank these questions…' Are you this? Are you that, you know, What is this? What is that' He must be referring to the recurrent'Do you say you’re God? You’re followers say you are' question. Well, clearly one can see that the ‘Master’ whom he describes is unmistably ‘God-like' given his extraordinary powers and claimed authority. Next he’ll be saying 'I never said I’m a Master' and accusing premies of misrepresenting him! '… the bad news is that the concepts have really gotten us in a hole to this day, where we’re still having to defend ourselves, which I find pathetic (he spits this out) having to defend ourselves and say.. No these things are not true. So we cannot afford to perpetuate any concepts.' Well. He’s hardly helping his defence by spitting out the sort of thing that he has apparently said - if these little extracts are anything to go by. I think he really badly needs to go a lot further than just saying 'No, these things are not true'. OK, so he finds it pathetic to have to be answerable to criticism (which does not reasonably amount to attack - let’s be clear about this) . But he needs to go further and prove that these things are not true. Not just simply claim 'they’re not true!' Also, if he finds himself 'in a hole' and feels ‘under attack’ merely because some of his past, undoubtedly sincere followers want some straight answers then what is so ‘pathetic’ about showing them a little deserved empathy and apologising to them for subjecting them to so many unreasonable ‘hinduistic’ demands? 'Knowledge works…look, you know, lets face it, knowledge works. The Master, when given the right environment, does his thing, and it’s great. It all works.' Yes, and my experience of late is that the meditation part works well without the Master bit. Sure the devotion and surrender stuff works well in the right environment. A closed environment where it’s easy to brainwash people. Whatever we forge for the future, we have to remember.. where.. we.. came from, and we have to remember, most importantly, how incredibly dangerous, incredibly dangerous, this stuff is….. Shooting your mouth off is not innocent by any stretch of the imagination…. Uhoh…he’s sounding cross now. It’s the Mafioso Boss warning his hoods not to squeal. We’re definitely talking in terms of someone who feels that they are in a ‘war of opposing sides’ here… Remember the World War Two slogan , urging the populace of the dangers of idle chat because Hitler’s spies were rife –'Careless talk costs lives' I believe that in Germany at this time the warning had a more threatening tone in that if you were judged responsible for such indiscretions you could be shot or hung. Maharaji says that if you betray him in any way you’re ' not innocent' ie YOU'RE GUILTY. He leaves it to the poor intimidated premie to imagine what might be the punishment for this crime. 'What you say in your…fuzzy feeling…you know what I mean…fuzzy feeling? When you’re feeling nice and oooh sooo inspired, can be deadly dangerous. What you say cannot have any tolerance for mistakes….. Deadly dangerous??!! No tolerance for mistakes? Not even a weeny bit? I think he waxing a bit melodramatic here. How many blissed out premies that you have met have said something 'deadly dangerous’ ?? Deadly boring maybe, but life threateningly dangerous –hardly. What does he want-People to be so worried about saying what they feel that all they are permitted to do is spout some safe party line? 'What do you think? .Does this far of the history make any sense?' Excuse me, did I hear correctly? did you ask me for my opinion?? I suppose, at this point in the proceedings, a dozen hands shot up and people had the chance to respond to this rare opportunity to answer Maharaji – 'No, it doesn’t make sense O Master. Actually I was rather wondering if you could explain a little problem I have about…' Of course not. This is not a real question. One that you are allowed to actually answer. You are merely supposed to nod assentingly and silently – indeed like so many sheep. 'And why I’m bringing this up? Because I see you in the same shoes. There’s a lot more of you than there were of them…..Comprende?…..Just playing Russian roulette with a lot more guns. Your chances go up. I don’t want to be in those shoes. I don’t think these mistakes have to happen and I don’t think these mistakes need to be there' It sounds to me like he’s bringing this up because he’s afraid that if premies will again put him in the situation where he will have to ‘defend’ himself. Against what? Some simple questions? The situation where he may be called upon to answer some simple straightforward questions seems to fill him with dread. This suggests that he has no answers. So all the premies are very likely going to screw things up royally for Maharaji given half the chance. He clearly doesn’t want people to talk about Knowledge or at least he is extremely paranoid that people are going to fatally misrepresent him and Knowledge. This is neither respecful or civil. Why? Because it suggests that those people who have Knowledge are so stupid that they cannot possibly say anything sensible about it. (even though they have supposedly experienced it) Worse, they are more likely to be so off-base that they will cause some ‘deadly’ repercussions. Maharaji is counting on people giving him the benefit of the doubt and that they will see this ‘warning’ as a demonstration of how ‘seriously’ he takes his job as Master and how he is reproving all his flippant, loose tongued followers who are jeopardising his work and how kind he is to let them play even a tiny little part in his work. No matter how you read it, this is a warning to keep the secrets. I’m probably too generous in my analysis of Maharaji’s words. Here’s what my dear innocent non- premie wife said when I read her the extracts. 'Megalomaniac! Who does he think he is? He’s got this thing called Knowledge. Once you’ve given something to someone, you can’t rule their lives and tell them what to do with it and who they can talk to about it! He wants to control people. He feels threatened and scared.'

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 19:16:54 (GMT) From: C.G. Email: None To: Patrick Subject: My Take Message:

How can he say that showing you You is his possession? This is crazy talk. C.G.

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 16:49:58 (GMT) From: Mary Email: None To: Patrick Subject: Here's the deal Maharaji Message:

'When a lot of the Mahatmas came to the West, they brought with them immeasurable amount of concepts, and it kinda went wild, and there was no stopping it.' The backlash of that, I had to directly bear' You came over here to the good ole US of A and worked a simple con game. It worked well. You married an American, got your green card, got citizenship, set up your tax-free duty shop and began to rake in the big bucks. What a great country. Now it is time to pay for your sins. You told us that you were the incarnate of God in Human form. You let us call you the Lord of the Universe, you promised us ever lasting peace. Now you are backpedaling. You are running scared. Yes, Maharaji, YOU did do that. You are not a victim. You are the perpetrator. You have violated us. And now you tell us you can take back our knowledge if you want to. Fine. You are a true Indian Giver. You cannot have mine back, it works fine for me without you. I am out of here.

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 19:08:32 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com To: Mary Subject: Maharaji's a disgrace to India Message:

Now a lot of people have come from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh to live in the West. Most of them are not cheap con merchants and most intergrate very well into our culture. However, Maharaji does the Indian nation a great injustice. Fact is, whenever I've mentioned Maharaji to the friends I have from the Indian subcontinent, they always talk about maharaji with great dislike for the way he has conned people over here with his brand of Eastern religion. In India there are many more like him. He got a foothold because he was the child guru. Most Indian people here see these gurus as being just money makers and sharks who seek out unsuspecting naive Westerners to make a killing.

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 19:25:12 (GMT) From: C.G. Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Gives E.Indians a bad name Message:

Dear Sir Dave & All, This is really true. Only last Saturday someone was telling me of an Indian salesman who was a really nice guy but no-one would trust him because they associated him with E.Indian tricksters. This poor guy had lost his business and his family were having tough times because of it. The Headmaster at my child's school is E. Indian and I'm even beginning to think he's just in it for the money whereas before I used to like all E.Indians because they were like M (Yuk!) This is unfortunate. C.G.

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 21:10:33 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Sir Dave: Maharaji's a disgrace to the planet! nt Message:

mm

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 17:37:18 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Mary Subject: Here's the deal Maharaji--great post! Message:

A true ''Indian Giver.'' I don't like the expression, but for goomraji, it fits fine, seeing he's from the country India. It isn't just knowledge he threatens to withhold, the deeper implication, and old premies know it, is that he has their lives in his control. What a con artist is right. So, Maharaji, stuck in your delusions of grandeur? Well, we all know your opulent lifestyle is real, what about who you are, M? Do you have the tiniest clue? You are a pathetic example of a human being, and that's a stretch. You never said you were to be worshipped as Lord. 'kay, cheater and Deceiver. 'member, lord, when you dressed up as Krishna and wore that crown??? Btw, where is your crown, Maharaji? What happened to those precious stones? I ask because you'd better start counting your precious stash of expensive stuff, there's a few Jagdeo victims who remain uncompensated. Cynthia

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 17:19:28 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: Mary Subject: Spot on, a true Indian Giver! nt Message:

You can keep it

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 13:15:19 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: Patrick Subject: My take on your take. Brilliant Message:

Hi Patrick That’s pretty much exactly what I thought, but I could never have articulated it so brilliantly. You did a good job. And isn’t it all so blatantly, glaringly obvious? Well it is now! I’ve been wondering what a fully dedicated, fully deluded premie would say about it all. I know one who said “ it was wonderful, he made it all so clear.” Whaaat? Well, he certainly made things clear to me! They would probably say that I’ve taken these extracts out of context and that you need to hear the rest of it, like where he says “I don’t want to put words in your mouth.” etc. etc….. In fact this particular satellite broadcast was the most heavily edited and cut to pieces I have ever seen. You can’t trust anything so crudely and obviously assembled. But that’s what they do all the time at Visions. So that is why I stressed that the passages I transcribed were straight uncut sequences, and when I missed a bit I said so. The whole broadcast was full of similar dreadful rubbish and riddled with contradictions. I’m used to him contradicting himself but here he was doing it in the next breath almost. Here is another extract:- Maharaji…. “Let me put it very simply. Are you, in your own self, content with not having to define Maharaji? Maharaji is Maharaji. So how comfortable are you with not having to define Maharaji? That’s the real question, are you comfortable with that? Because if you’re not, you’re gonna sit half way, half baked, between the belief system and what Knowledge needs. Until that happens, the history can never really be cleared up, because it still lives in that era. The shade of darkness still looms” Joe, who posted below, asked “what the hell is he talking about?” and he’s right, you have to be very familiar with the way he talks, or you don’t get all the implications. But here, I really am stumped! “Maharaji is Maharaji” What the hell is he talking about? Perhaps you can interpret? If your friend seriously wants to study this further, I could send you a copy of the tape. All the best Kelly

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 18:14:58 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Kelly Subject: My Take Message:

He is saying the same bullshit he always did, and here is my take on it. When he says. Are you, in your own self, content with not having to define Maharaji? Maharaji is Maharaji. So how comfortable are you with not having to define Maharaji? That’s the real question, are you comfortable with that? This is the new version of his old commandment to NEVER LEAVE ROOM FOR DOUBT IN YOUR MIND. When it comes to Maharaji, accept everything, never judge, never think, never evaluate, just surrender. And if you aren't comfortable with not using your brain, you are a failure. This is cult, cult, cult, language. If you doubt, think or evaluate, it all falls apart, because, since he isn't offering anything except a personality cult, it can't stand up to the light of day if you look at it objectively. Because if you’re not, you’re gonna sit half way, half baked, between the belief system and what Knowledge needs. Until that happens, the history can never really be cleared up, because it still lives in that era. The shade of darkness still looms” This is the new version of 'rotting vegetables' and 'breaking into a thousand pieces,' which were his threats of doom that will happen to a premie who has the gall to think, notice the contradictions, listen to their own better judgment, etc. But it is funny to think that Maharaji actually believes that if you just don't talk about Maharaji, that all the stuff he said and did in his Lord of the Universe period will go away. You really are an idiot Maharaji if you think that's true. The only possible way that Maharaji can deal with his very embarrassing past is to face it, take responsbility for it, and answer the hard questions he avoids by just telling everyone not to think.

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 19:39:45 (GMT) From: C.G. Email: None To: Joe Subject: Equating M with K - big mistake! Message:

This wrong equasion is what makes M millions of U.S. dollars every year, and he's sticking to it even though he KNOWS it's wrong. The reason he is sticking to this one and not changing it is because he has become addicted to the Hi life. And no, premies I don't mean the High Life I mean that phoney Hi life that is dependent on stuff, things, toys and hi- consumerism that we all get fed up with at Christmas time. Every day is like this consumer Xmas for M. He's become a couch potato watching ads on T.V. That's why he needs to send out auto knowledge tapes to the motley crew that are wanting 'his ' Knowledge. C.G.

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 09:41:13 (GMT) From: Patrick Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Thanks Kelly - here's what I think. Message:

Maharaji…. “Let me put it very simply. Are you, in your own self, content with not having to define Maharaji? Maharaji is Maharaji. So how comfortable are you with not having to define Maharaji? That’s the real question, are you comfortable with that? Because if you’re not, you’re gonna sit half way, half baked, between the belief system and what Knowledge needs. Until that happens, the history can never really be cleared up, because it still lives in that era. The shade of darkness still looms” I think this is more obfuscating on M's part. Firstly he suggests that one should not define Maharaji. The alternate to one having clear understanding, definition of Maharaji's role in one's mind, would seem to be to have a 'belief' that he is beyond such definition. I can't see how there is a more appropriate word than 'belief' for this acceptance of him being something so Godlike. That is clearly what he says we need - silent acceptance of everthing he says, does, and suggests we do. Then he conversely tries to suggest that Knowledge doesn't need a 'belief system', so we're back to having an understanding of him, which surely needs some sort of definition. The 'darkness looming' bit is not clearly explained, so as a warning of dire consequences should one disagree, it would seem to have been said mainly to bear weight only through intimidation- not through clear explanation. I think this is called 'bluster'. “Maharaji is Maharaji” Again he is simply stressing that he can do whatever he likes - he claims that he is beyong the limiting definitions which the world would restrictingly put upon him. Hence he can behave as he wishes, demand that his followers accept whatever conditions he wishes and is basically is beyond normal judgement. That is the only interpretation is it not? Most people would agree that this is meglamaniacal talk. Some may say that either he is God or he is a megalomanic. (depending on their belief in God in the first place). I think even these people tend to think that his lack of kindness and partiality to intimidation amongst many other things, suggest that he is the latter. Would God be arrogant?! Would God choose to manifest particularly through a man with such human weakness? If your friend seriously wants to study this further, I could send you a copy of the tape. I think you can hold fire on that now, but thanks for the offer. I'll let you know if he expresses an interest, however I think he is too busy with other things right now.

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 04:00:32 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Kelly Subject: 'Don't define Maharaji' Message:

Kelly: Thanks so much for posting this garbage. I never go to the EV sites or read any premie stuff because I do not want to pollute my mind with it. But these excerpts from M's speeches are so telling. His comments are pretty scary to me. I guess he said this stuff when I was an ardent premie and I embraced it wholeheartedly. Now it sounds downright frightening. It seems to me that what M is saying here is just another version of 'Never leave room for doubt in your mind'. He is telling the premies that it is improper for them to have any expectations whatsoever about the propriety of his behavior. To do so would be to 'define' him; the consequence of which is to remain 'half baked' in your realization of knowledge, doomed to darkness. In other words, the penalty for trying to 'define' M is that you will never realize knowledge. Sort of like being threatened with being cast out of the Garden of Eden, isn't it? Kelly, maybe we can watcth this when I get over to Europe. Since you have the Lord of the Universe video, we can watch that too. I am in it, for a fleeting second. It's about 7 minutes into the video I think. I'm carrying a banner with several other people. I am short, have long brown hair with my bangs pulled back, and there is a very tall guy next to me who is waving at the crowd. I was on Soul Rush and then ended up at Millennium. Ah, what a debacle! Take care, Kelly. Keep those posts coming. Marianne

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 22:55:18 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: Marianne Subject: I saw you! Message:

Hi Marianne, I saw you for a split second!!Will I recognise you now?!You look so young and sweet! I just told curious george! he could get my e-mail from you, could you send his to me. Yeah it would be good to watch this stuff with you, I look forward to seeing you soon. love kelly

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 04:16:59 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: MarianneDB@aol.com To: Kelly Subject: I saw you! Message:

Kelly: Please send me your email address again and I will give it to Curious George. And yes, that was me you saw. I was a good little ashram resident when that was taken. But, everyone from my ashram went to Millennium, and we were so disappointed, we all came back to the ashram and did acid together. It seemed like the only appropriate response. Talk to you soon. Take care, Marianne

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 20:55:03 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: Kelly Subject: My take on ' Maharaji is Maharaji '..... Message:

.......is that he's saying he's God .

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 13:27:52 (GMT) From: JTF Email: None To: Kelly Subject: My take on your take. Brilliant Message:

'Maharaji is Maharaji'....I think this is what is referred to in the study of cult behavior and thought reform as a thought stopper. rawat doesn't want his prisoners continually questioning him and his actions or lack thereof. Thanks for starting this thread...I've finally gotten to the point where I can read his words for what they really are and not hate myself for ever believing he cared about me or any of us.

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 02:09:45 (GMT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: Patrick Subject: Good on you, mate.Read Patrick's post,premies!(nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 02:00:06 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Patrick Subject: Who Wore The Krishna Outfit? Who Wore The Crown? Message:

Hi Patrick, Nice analysis, thanks. I'm at a point where I think an informed amateur could diagnose this megalomaniac, sociopath, narcissist. He's as mad as a hatter, whatever that means. In the year 2000, with mass technology, the internet, EPO, he thinks he can play the God role again, on video, to muted guests, hosted by mutes. Okay. Get out the duct tape, time to shut the premies up!! While your at it, make sure the guests are not allergic to the duct tape adhesive, we don't want any lawsuits. This not so veiled ''agya,'' which isn't said in hindi, but in his very imitatable way, his very transparent way, is still, giving agya. And the old timers know it. If any of you premies out there think you have doubts, read this site. Cherish your doubts about Maharaji. Those doubts will set you free of him and his grip on your life, which he has no right to control. You don't need him, he's only interested in your money; he doesn't care about you. Read this site, please. And if you can, post here. Though when you post here, remember, this site is predicated upon the realization of ex-premies that EV/Maharaji is a personality cult. Maharaji is so dependent upon his delusions he doesn't even have the pride nor dignity to realize how pathetic it is to beg for money under the transparent guise of being a teacher or master or God with rich ''grateful'' devotees, (cough) I mean friends. What a perfectly pathetic asshole. Love, Cynthia

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 19:40:21 (GMT) From: Joy Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Of Krishna Crowns and Arti Message:

Yes, Cynthia, the Krishna Crown and mala outfits are a good thing to mention here. I would also remind people of some of the lyrics to Arti, sung AT MAHARAJI'S DIRECTION by all ashram residents in every ashram, early in the morning before meditation, and after satsang every evening (and at programs, see below), such as: 'You are my mother, you are my father' 'You are riches, you are wisdom, you are my all, my Lord to me' 'Our Lord's the Superior Power in P erson, I bow down before such a wonderful Lord' This scapegoating of the Lord of the Universe thing onto the mahatmas really gets me going. One of the most covert and insidious forms of verbal abuse is to BLAME the victim for the abuse. M is here trying to scapegoat the mahatmas for the 'concepts' they brought over, and everybody else, gullible idiots that we were, bought. He is then BLAMING us for buying the crap which the mahatmas supposedly invented. What gall! I would just like to point out that Maharaji himself, knowingly and calculatedly, perpetrated this fraud on us all, NOT the mahatmas! They were the biggest victims of all, actually, having surrendered their entire lives to him and then been used to perpetrate his nonsense onto an innocent world. The festivals at which ARTI was directly sung to Maharaji after his talk were stage-managed by him to the most minute detail. I know this because I used to be part of Shri Hans Productions and M's official transcriber, during the super-devotional years in the late 70s. As such I somehow managed to get the service of typing up a song list for him for these programs, something I was very willing to do since it netted me a front row seat. I used to go out and buy the fanciest, most expensive leather-type three-ring binder with gold corners that the stationery store had, bring along some expensive bond paper and a three-hole punch, and either find or have rented a selectric typewriter for this purpose at each festival. Then the bands would submit the songs they had lined up to play, and these were meticulously typed up on the precious bond paper, inserted into the fancy binder and then trotted backstage by a PAM once M was in the building. He himself chose exactly what songs were to be played, and when. He was in touch with a sound panel of guys at stage right or left with headsets who directed the bands what and how to play and when to cut it short as he was about to enter. To imply that Arti, the main song sung to him for so many years as he sat on that thrown wearing the Krishna Crown and mala, was a bunch of concepts perpetrated by the mahatmas is completely ludicrous! To repeat, Maharaji stage-managed every single moment of those shows, and no doubt still does. The fact that he had the darshan line recently at Amaroo (interesting that it was out in the outback, far from civilization's prying eyes -- shades of Jonestown) tells me that he still believes this lie, as do most of his followers. And also that he has Arti still played instrumentally at programs (or events, whatever they're called these days), while the old-timers bliss out shows that he still consciously and knowingly perpetrates this lie to this day. After all, it is a very lucrative lie. Why should he give it up if he can still get jet planes and yachts and mansions out of it? I just had to write this down, as a response to M's blaming of the victims of his cult and once again shirking responsibility for his own actions, adding insult on top of injury. To trivialize this Arti/Krishna Crown/Lord of the Universe thing as mere concepts is ridiculous and yet another attempt by M to weasel out of coming clean and owning up. P.S. Thanks to Patrick for all the research and work you put into these posts!

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 13:59:19 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Who Wore The Krishna Outfit? Who Wore The Crown? Message:

Hi Cynthia and Everybody, It's raining for the second day and very unseasonably warm here in NJ. Early Sunday morning, one kid is out at an overnight, the other one sleeping off a cold, wife is walking some dogs. So I thought I'd pop in and see what's up... When Maharaji was asked way back if he was God, I recall him being quoted as saying that he was 'a humble servant of God'. Your very pointed question about who wore the Krishna garb makes me think back. In my experience, as recently as the early 80's - that would make him at least in his late 20's or early 30's, above the age of reason - he was dancing in the mala and crown in Miami while the local Krishna folks were having kiniption fits waitng for him to vaporize or something for wearing such trappings, while meanwhile the premies were in rapture. (I wonder how much Krishna spit the premies ate at the local Krishna restaurant in Miami beach back then as we sat there and gave satsang to each other as we feasted on fine vegetarian cuisine as the local devotees fumed as they smiled and served us...) I just don't see how he can put all that spiritual misunderstanding on all the rest of his staff and not include himself for perpetuating some of it. Remember that story he used to tell about the land where they exiled the king to a desolate place after a while and replaced him with a new one? And then one clever guy came along who was made king and commanded during his reign that the desolate exile place be all set up with everything one would need to live a comfortable life, so that when he would be tossed into exile he would be very comfortable? Is that what is going on do ya think in Amaroo and other places? The northern hemisphere is pretty much shot biomass-wise, and most of his land holdings are south of the equator, or at least far away from the industrialized and poisoned mess. He may truly be onto something, regardless of anything else going on. I am just hanging onto my basic belief in a benevolent supreme being, trying to live the golden rule and be a good householder and provider for my family, and watching the wheels go round and round....I still think the he carries some heavy juice with him, and still think that perhaps we 'mortals' (tongue in cheek) don't know the whole length and breadth of the Master game as played on earth. Some of it certainly blows away some basic ideas and ideals I have always held true. I have granted myself a mental hiatus from having to make any cosmic determinations for while (that is allowed), and am just enjoying the season for a bit. I like this time of year because people open up more, in the 2000 year wake of the manifestation of Love made flesh. And even if he did not exist as some here claim, my hat is off to whoever created the idea of such a person and set the bar where they did for human potential, behavior and conduct. Sandy

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 21:36:07 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: shp Subject: Cult leaders and S hemisphere hidy holes. Message:

According to an article I've just read in 'The Tablet' (a highbrow English Catholic periodical) , the rev.moon has bought , I quote ...... '4,000 square kilometres at Puerto Casado , a river port in the Chaco area of north-west Paraguay'. The journalist who went there to investigate was totally baffled as to why . Must be the latest fashion accessory for the god who has everything eh ? Happy Hannukah/Christmas.

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 04:09:13 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: MarianneDB@aol.com To: Bin Liner Subject: WHAT??? Message:

Bin, could you email me the information about Moon's land purchase in Paraguay? I'd like to read about it, look at a map, and do some research. It makes me think of Jonestown. Thanks, Marianne

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 21:53:13 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Here's the internet address in case Message:

anyone else is interested. www.thetablet.co.uk/feature.cgi I'll email it to you as well , as this thread is close to inactive.

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 22:21:17 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Bin Liner Subject: Cult leaders and S hemisphere hidy holes. Hi Bin.. Message:

It must be an awful existence, when you boil it all down, to have the capacity, and cajones--I can't think of a perfect word to describe--to become a cult leader and have so much power over people that they give all the money you request and you get everything in this materialist world you want, and then, what?????? A love-less life, I'd guess. This impending ''doom'' tactic in cults seems to be a cyclic thing when: 1) Money is running out; and/or 2) Paranoia has set in so much that the cult leader, our ex-lord, of course, Maharaji, starts in with the not so subtle ''heavy satsang,'' threatening to withhold himself, knowledge (as if he hasn't always done that), scaring people stuck in a cult into what? That Amaroo place sounds creepier the more I hear about it now that I'm an ex-premie. However, the last time I spoke with true believing premies, and I was one once, it was discussed how wonderful it would be for all the premies to just move down under to Amaroo and fuck the world. Make a Majaraji World theme park, I guess, with slave labor, lack of good nutrition, but of course, daily DARSHAN!! I wonder what it's like there. Just curious..... Love, Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 01:18:38 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Darshan is the draw of Amaroo , you're right Message:

I've never been there myself & don't know anything about the place apart from what I've read here. A couple of premie friends of mine are intending to visit it sometime next year as part of an extended tour of the Far East/South Pacific. When they get back I'll have a 1st hand account. If their visit coincides with fatso showing up I expect a glowing report , if not any wierdness about the place will be down to .....the premies of course. Their only reason for going is the possibility of DARSHAN & if it's not available they'll be outta there pronto. Seems to me it's getting to be like a leisure option for some people .... you can afford a long weekend helicopter skiing , but as a premie getting darshan is a bigger blast. I only hope Rawat ends up like Santa Claus , but stuck in his grotto for 365 , dependent on handouts from those spiritual tourists he never managed to separate from their wallets. Happy Christmas

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 08:51:44 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: Bin Liner Subject: Amaroo event next April Message:

Apparently there was a telephone conference call last Friday about the future of satellite broadcast, it's gonna be 24 hours a day aaaaarh! The call was a discussion between Yorum Weiss, Ray Belcher and Carol Somebody (an instructor) Yorum said that everything is set for a big event in April, with accomodation on the land for 2,500 premies. He also( I was told)said it would be very expensive!!! I have been there and it really is a beautiful place,and I did get darshan, but I won,t be going back! Oh and buy the way M apparently is going to have auto K translated into 60 languages and he's going to record himself reading it thus pepetuating the illusion that it comes directly from him! what a Fraud! love kelly

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 12:54:28 (GMT) From: mary Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Amaroo...BYOD Message:

Bring your own Dixie Cup

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 00:35:41 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Kelly Subject: What the hell is he talking about? Message:

I know his 'it's all due to the Master' bullshit, but what is all that crap about? I also know his line about 'knowledge' working and all, which is also bullshit, ('knowledge' is not four meditation techniques, it's the experience you get by belonging to a personality cult), but what is that all about 'it' being 'incredibly dangerous', and what 'shoes' does he not want to be in, and there is more of 'them' than who? I get the sense that he is trying to scare of shit out of his followers, just like Maharaji always did, but he is incoherent as usual. Can a fairly recent premie translate? How can anyone listen to that garbage and not see what and idiotic megalomaniac Maharaji is? And one that doesn't even make any sense. It just amazes me that he would even have the gall to do a video on how to introduce people to knowledge. He has been trying to do it for 30 years in the west and he has been a miserable failure, despite spending gazillions of dollars in the process. How can anyone think he even has any crediblity, let alone any talent or ability in telling other people how to do it, when he has failed utterly at doing it himself?

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 00:24:50 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Knowledge works , he said Message:

& he's right in that regard ,fuck him , at least for me. I sit down & do it sometimes when I'm feeling unsettled or whatever , & it makes me feel better . This is the hold he's had over me for the greater part of my life. Using a caveman trick to make a living by. I've no idea what K might be. It could be a built in mechanism by which one can experience the divine , or not. Whatever it is ,it's something , & something which Rawat has exploited for gain. Many many times in my career as a premie I've thought 'who is this guy' , 'what is this shit' , & always it's come back to , 'well it works , so he must be ok'. Only the information available on this site has enabled me to find out that Rawat is a total fucker & not a master . Fuck all masters/gurus/enlightened ones/priests/prophets/rabbis/mullahs/shamans/touchy feely motherfuckers. Unless they have the humility to say , 'it's not really me'. & even then be wary. Can't remember the exact quote , but someone once said , 'the biggest lies are built on a little bit of truth'. ps. I don't think premies are stupid enough to drink Kool Aid.

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 14:56:14 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: Bin Liner Subject: All meditation works Message:

Hi Bin I think that's the 'key frame' here, to coin a phrase! I really do believe that all roads lead to Rome. Knowledge doesn't work.....You work! It's your sincerity and conscious effort that puts you in touch with you. I had a thought just now about that old story that M used to tell about the elephant and the blind people who each had a hold on a different part of the elephant (for elephant, read truth) so they each describe it differently. Well I think that M has got hold of the trunk, which is the most obvious and most unique and defining aspect of the truth, but only an aspect. So,we have the age old situation of the blind leading the blind! But let's not forget that the trunk is part of the elephant. I just feel very glad that my eyes are now wide open. (I hope!) Love Kelly

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Date: Sat, Dec 16, 2000 at 21:02:26 (GMT) From: Patrick Email: None To: Kelly Subject: One person's reaction. Message:

This stuff speaks volumes to me about where Maharaji is coming from. It would appear that even to someone who is relatively unfamiliar with Maharaji , what he says here is extremely telling. I was just about to compose my own analysis of what Maharaji said when I was interrupted by a phone call from an associate whose opinions I have learned to respect and whom I find to be an intelligent and thoughtful man. I read the extracts aloud to him over the telephone. His unexpurgated reaction is below. He seemed to think that these extracts were interesting enough to merit some further analysis, later. My friend is very interested in human behaviour – he is a doctor of philosophy or something, and I think he senses that Maharaji’s words express something extraordinary and quite rare which he would like to study! Maharaji… 'Knowledge, and all things associated with it, are compliments of the Master. The Master doesn’t want knowledge sessions to happen, Guess what? They’re not happening. The Master changes the rules, creates the rules, disposes of these rules, as the Master wishes. The possibility of knowledge is brought to you by the compliments of your friendly Master. (laughter and applause) Now, I’m not getting into the logistics of it OK? I understand it is the people who are interested make many of these things a physical reality. But, the key frame here is, compliments.the Master says, yes this is OK to do, you may talk about knowledge, you may not talk about knowledge. Both have to be taken with the same stride. If you’re borrowing your neighbour’s car, the neighbour says yes you may drive it, then one day he may say ..No you may not drive it, I want my car back. You have to realize….Ownership of knowledge resides with the Master…Hearing about knowledge is a privilege….Being able to talk about knowledge is a privilege, it’s not a right, it’s a privilege. …Receiving knowledge is a privilege…Being able to practice knowledge is a privilege…..Being able to participate is a privilege.' (Audience of invited guests nodding and smiling). My friend's reaction: I'm glad there's an FBI to keep an eye on people like him. Anyone who makes it a sentient tenet of their activity that they control the freedom of people to think and discuss their ideas sounds most sinister and unwelcome in the modern age. Only a fool would take him seriously. If he says 'You are supposed to drink poison' should you do so? Does he need uncritical, silently assenting sheep or does he want to join in the free exchange of development of ideas that we have found so rewarding in modern civilisation? What’s he afraid of? What he says is a combination of obscurity and bombast with whiffs of aggression and arrogance that is so often characteristic of greedy, frightened people. I’ve never heard such patently nasty, sinister, intimidating rubbish. More later.

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Date: Sat, Dec 16, 2000 at 21:16:46 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Patrick Subject: Patrick, great post... Message:

Hi Patrick, The part you quoted: If he says 'You are supposed to drink poison' should you do so? Does he need uncritical, silently assenting sheep or does he want to join in the free exchange of development of ideas that we have found so rewarding in modern civilisation? was very chilling. In no way does Maharaji show any signs of wanting anything but to completely fill his extremely self-serving and expensive appetite and calling them his life's goals. Which puts it quite lightly, actually, because the more I learn about M the more I fear he may go off, as it were, and perhaps pull a Jim Jones, or at least start isolating premies. He's done that in one way already by the gag order. Amaroo, anyone? No joke, this cult leader is playing in desparate times. Scary stuff, Best, Cynthia

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 14:17:17 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Death as an alternative.... Message:

In my cultural background to the best of my knowledge, the only mass suicide that was sanctioned by the leaders was at a place called Masada in Israel. The Romans were banging heads and taking names, planning to rape the women and enslave the men and children. So the elders slit the throats of their families and then did themselves, as an alternative to a life of slavery and a total loss of their true cultural identities, being totally assimilated into the Roman culture. This event has been glamorized and raised to a very high place in the popular culture. There was a TV movie with Peter Strauss and Peter O'Toole. If they had Kool-aide back then, they would have probably used it. Who can say what is right and wrong with 20/20 hindsight in the here and now? Everybody has to decide what is worth living and dying for. May all our decisions in this realm be easy ones. Sandy

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 19:56:40 (GMT) From: Curious George Email: None To: All Subject: Actor =Jesus - Miragey = Krishna Message:

How could we have all been so stupid? When I first saw M in a Krishna Suit In London, U.K. I didn't like what I saw but being as so many other people were 'getting off' on it and I had just travelled all the way to India to see the boychild, I thought there was something wrong with me. That's how we were and still are made to feel by those phoney 'mahatmas' encouraged of course by the master illusionist Miragey. C.G.

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 18:43:37 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: shp Subject: Death as an alternative.... Message:

... to changing one's beliefs and accomodating to what is? Surely not! There's a modern Zen story about this kind of issue. During WW2, a Buddhist Temple had been overrun by Japanese troops (incidently, Buddhism qua Zen is the national religion of Japan). The troops were running short of ammunition, and wished to take the gold plated lead statue of the Buddha. The plan was to melt it down and cast bullets from the lead. Well, the Abbot was appalled by the thought. He flatly refused to allow such murderous sacriledge. The courageous man placed himself foursquare in front of the Buddha and flatly refused to allow the troops to remove it. So they shot him, took the statue, and melted it down for ammo in any case. Perhaps from a traditional 'one way with one God' perspective (Judeo/Christian/Islamic) the Abbot's action would be commended. One can imagine the story told to emphasise the Abbot's devotion to the one true Lord and the Abbot's amazing self-sacrificing bravery. Rather puts Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son to the Lord in the shade, wouldn't you say? But when I was told the story, the Zen Monk reviled the Abbot for his stupid act of self-murder! It was obvious what the troops would do and the Abbot's actions simply resulted in one more death (his own) for no good reason. We are not our beliefs, so to die for them is remarkably stupid - an act of deluded attachment to the inessential. After all, while we live, we may change our minds! Of course, one may (in my view anyway) quite properly choose to die in relative dignity rather than in sordid butchery and suffering a la Massada, or whatever. But that's a different issue.

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 16:16:05 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: JohnT Subject: Life as a priority Message:

Hi JohnT, Personally, I would try to stay alive at just about all costs to outlive the problem at hand, whatever it might be. Sandy

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 18:50:11 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: JohnT Subject: Death as an alternative...Hmmmm! Message:

Hmmmm.... death is not an alternative!

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Date: Sat, Dec 16, 2000 at 21:27:00 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Patrick, great post...I agree Message:

I agree with Patrick's friend and you Cynthia, It is seriously sinister. love kelly

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Date: Sat, Dec 16, 2000 at 18:10:06 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Miragey's recent diatribe Message:

Hi Kelly. How are you doing? I'm packing for my trip across the pond! Getting more excited about it every day. Thanks for posting that. One thing is certain: Miragey reads the forum all the time. These comments are in direct response to things that are said here. He's trying to blame the mahatmas for the organizational past, for his own past. Nice guy, huh? Can't take responsibility for his own actions, can he? What a jerk. Then, he's also telling people that he's the one who controls what can and cannot be said about knowledge. That's something I'm going to file away for future reference. He's really trying to intimidate the premies about what they say about knowledge. These comments are pretty scary, but they are also very interesting from a legal point of view. Thanks again, Kelly. Marianne

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 05:56:30 (GMT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: Prem Rawat (also Marianne Subject: US citizen/resident m. vs. First Amendment rts. Message:

So, how did he get U.S. residency or citizenship -- if he can't even respect basic freedom of speech? Fascist hypocrisy. You have to study the basic principles of the Constitution and agree to respect freedom of speech, press, and religion etc. in order to get US citizenship. (He used my innocent devoted friend Marolyn to stay in the USA - poor dear.) 1973: 'Spread this Knowledge to everyone' -- yeah, right! Now, his message is essentially 'shut the fuck up, premies (and others).' To paranoid Maharaji: you sound like a fucking little Hitler now. Can't you even see it, deluded dude, - or are you too blinded by your little Napoleon ego?! You have royally fucked up, buster. Sarupanand ji would be rolling over in his grave. If you don't even respect others' freedom of speech, then get the hell out of America, Australia, UK, Europe, India, etc. and go where you belong -- like Iraq, for instance. [After checking your astrology chart, I'd say your moon is in Uranus right now - dung beetles, indeed!] Understand this, kiddo: If you weren't a selfish, money-grubbing greedy guru - this EPO wouldn't ever have existed! Remember 'no cheat, no deceit?' The truth shall set them free, too. [the other premies and aspirants] Looking forward to State of California vs. Prem Rawat, United States of America vs. Rawat, Her Majesty the Queen vs. Prem Rawat, class action criminal felony conspiracy charges, etc. and especially God Almighty vs. Prem Rawat. Good Advice to Maharaji - do the Krishnamurti now, and save your rich butt (if that's even possible). Time is running out; the clock is ticking... You're not serving God; you're just serving yourself, appropriating teachings that are not yours to hoard. You even fucked up your own mission. Yes, it's your fault, dude - not the premies, not the ex-premies -- yours alone. So, take the heat. The buck stops with you, mister! WAKE UP, PREMIES. WAKE UP, EVERYBODY! Peace, P.S. Marianne, you leaving to cross the pond? sent you 2nd email. wassup?

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Date: Sat, Dec 16, 2000 at 21:19:06 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Did you hear the one about the frog in the well ? Message:

and he met a frog from a pond? well, is your pond this big?? This may be lost on you because you've been out for a few years!! but Miragey has told it over and over ad infinitum, and he always tells it so badly. Anyway, give me a call when you get to my side of the pond! love kelly

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Date: Sat, Dec 16, 2000 at 19:06:55 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Miragey's recent diatribe Message:

Hi Kelly and Marianne, I've heard that tone, those raised eyebrows, his pompous way of owning everything and owing nothing to the ''recipients'' of HIS precious special K. My thoughts are that he is doing a few things here. He's telling the old time premies to stop talking like they did in the 70s (even in private without newbies or aspirants around); he's reminding every premie true believer that he can go away forever, which could be very scary for a devotee--and it's not a very veiled threat. The censorship is amazing. M's also telling FV posters, those on-the-fence who post or read here, plus the on-the-fence PAMs, that there will be big, dangerous trouble if they talk. I wonder what the legal ramifications are of even a non-profit organization censoring it's members. Are they not also bound by the 1st Amendment? Or is this megalomaniac just getting away with, well, murder (in a figurative sense, of course). I agree with Marianne, he's is a super jerk. Love, Cynthia

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 14:36:43 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: To Cynthia Message:

'M's also telling FV posters, those on-the-fence who post or read here, plus the on-the-fence PAMs, that there will be big, dangerous trouble if they talk.' -Cynthia Hi Cynthia, This is the first I am hearing about any 'big dangerous trouble' if we communicate about what is in (and on) our hearts. I don't go to videos...I watch one at home every now and then....and I don't frequent the approved sites. What's up? This reminds me of the day in Kissimmee at Hans Jayanti in the late 70's when he said he could just 'blow on the world and it would go away'. No comment to that one. Old Testament hell-and-brimstone went out 2000 years ago and was replaced with love and forgiveness. And what about the old saying 'in your darkest hour I am always with you'....what could be a darker hour than if someone lost sight of who the Lord really was and fought against Him...so by his own promise, he should be very much with everyone who is in their darkest hour, even those who fight against him, if he is true. In his divine understanding, he ought to be able to see the seeds and roots of what we have here, and see who planted them in the first place. It is so easy to screw up and blame others. I would not expect that of a Master. A Master would not screw up his mission in the first place. That's the difference between a Master and someone who is tripping. Sandy Drop me a line when you have a chance.

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 17:38:45 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: shp Subject: Eiydhiwnay Message:

Dear sandy, did you know that you can buy a t-shirt with these initials on, and do you know what they mean? It is so unbelievably awful....but here it is ' even in your darkest hour I will not abandon you' This was said in Rome 97? he was talking about there being, at the bottom of the barrel (appropriate Eh?) a tap , a bunge and You can open it and escape. Actually this is a very comforting statement ...IF you believe it. But what about walking around with those initials on your chest.?...I mean what are you going to say? people will inevitably ask you what it stands for, even if you tell them, they'll be mystified and you'll be embarassed. And what a claim ! He really is referring to himself as the I that will not abandon you. Shit! Rawat sucks! love kelly

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 02:48:36 (GMT) From: Elaine Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Eiydhiwnay Message:

Didn't Krishna say that? It is a comforting, lovely saying --- I think that it is true --- I think of 'God' not M or Krishna - however. I think that my spirit guides or angels are always there - and that there is a loving God always there watching over me. And let me tell you, I have been thru alot -- I'm sorry, but I need to know that someone as a higher power is in charge. Thank you for reminding me yet again, Elaine

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 01:55:55 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Eiydhiwnay Message:

Dear Kelly, The 'Eiydhiwnay' looks at first like some ancient word. Some folks like it and some folks hate it. I defer from having an opinion on the initials or the T-shirt vehicle. I allow myself to not have opinions on things sometimes. Some people think this is weak and others think it is strong to avoid having opinions. I defer from having an opinion on that too. Meanwhile, whoever the 'I' is in reality, I really need to connect with that entity asap up close and personal on any and all levels and get my head straight. Wish me well. Sandy

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 21:00:58 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: shp Subject: Sandy, I wish you well. Message:

Dear Sandy, Being quite new round here, I realise you are also. You seem to be putting a lot of energy into it and I applaud you. Personally I am finding it a bit exhausting and I think I'm going down with flu! I recognise many of my own thoughts and feelings in yours but although I am trying hard, I can't write it all down. Coming out of the cult has been even more inspiring than getting into it! and the insights are just pouring in. I need to conserve some energy now, so forgive me if I don't respond with equivalent verve and vigour! Your carrotted (I'm afraid that's new to me!!) posts above were excellent. I had carrots for supper! with love kelly

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Date: Tues, Dec 19, 2000 at 23:07:24 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Kelly Subject: Kelly, I wish you well. Message:

Kelly, I have been around here for almost two years, off and on. I received Knowledge in 1978. I don't consider myself an ex-premie nor do I consider myself a premie in the traditional sense of the word. Rather, I feel like the patriotic soldier who has to bring bad news to the general and has some personal feelings about the bad news besides....the bad news being about friendly fire that hurt some of our own and nobody from HQ is talking about it or comforting the wounded in the field. You take care and just do what Louie Armstrong says: Grab yer coat and get yer hat Leave yer worries on the doorstep Just direct yer feet To the sunny side of the street... And feel better, you know... lemon, hot water and honey zinc lozenges echinacea lots of rest and sleep vitamin C (Nature's Plus OJ chewables are great!) Sandy

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 20:13:54 (GMT) From: Boggle Head Email: None To: Kelly Subject: The mind boggles doesn't it! Message:

I know for a fact that most of the premies in my area really believe this kind of garbage. From someone who's commandment was 'Don't leave for tomorrow what you can do today.' the mind boggles doesn't it? I think perhaps I might know you. Maybe you could get my email from Marianne (Curious George) I'm curious to know if I do know you. I enjoy reading your posts. Have you written a journey yet? i haven't. C.G.

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 22:42:02 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: Boggle Head Subject: I'm curious too Message:

Hi CG, I,ll do as you suggest and get your e-mail fom Marianne, you may also get mine from her. Reading through your posts I deduce that you were in the cult for a long time and are only recently out? No I haven't written my journey yet but I want to do it as a therapeutic exercise and hpoe to find time after Christmas. I look forward to talking to you. love kelly

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Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 16:05:18 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: shp Subject: To shp: Maharaj is Maharaji...hmmmm Message:

Hi Sandy, I was just reading your posts and Kelly's where M says, Maharaji is Maharaji. He sounds so desparate these days, don't you think? My take on that M is M quote is that he really doesn't want to be referred to as lord anymore, and he knows damn well that all the old timers are still true believers in his so-called divinity. And they do talk about his divinity after all these years, yet he can't seem to shake it out of the original programming! So he blames everyone else for his problems. Typical, isn't it? It's amazing to me that I ''ate'' whole just about every word he said and thought him brilliant and clear. Now I laugh a lot when I read or hear quotes, the endless repetition of analogies, mixed metaphors, etc. I feel so freed of him and am so glad to have this forum to express what I think and feel without his censorship. If he does read this forum he must be having multiple temper tantrums! The brat. I'm glad you're doing well, Love, Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000 at 16:56:18 (GMT) From: shp Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: To Cynthia Message:

Hi Cynthia, Needless to say, I have alot of feelings flying about now. I just read a thread at the top of the pile from Michael Dettmers and his mission as the 'concierge of lovers' to Maharaji. So many feelings.... Is humanity so screwed up that the Almighty has reset the game? Are all the commandments, ethics and sacraments (such as marriage) out the window now? Are money, power and a charismatic but iron mental grip on people really the new standard for Heaven on Earth? We cannot speak freely about things that concern us? Is that what God is really all about? Sounds like Hell to me. Of course, I believe that the answer to all of the above is a resounding 'NO'. But what I see is that if enough people buy into something, it becomes reality in the physical plane, right here where our bodies are, where we breathe. I remember in the Bible (to all offended by this book, skip this part), where Jesus is talking about a King who planned a feast and the invited guests did not come. (By the way, to all skeptics who think they know where I am at just because I refer to this book, save your hoots....there are many levels to this book, not all of which are fairy tales, and some truths cannot be edited). So anyway, since the invited guests did not come, the King ordered his servants to go out to the highways and the byways and bring in the good and the bad, whoever, so that the King's table was full and the feast would be enjoyed. This would allow for much of what we are talking about to acceptable. And perhaps over time, everyone would re-learn the way to live like a mensch. What does this sound like to you? Ravings of a wayward seeker of truth? Perhaps. The way the writers of the Bible wanted it read was that the King was Jesus, the invited guests were the Jews, the feast was the Holy Spirit (a higher consciousness which connects humans with God) and since the Jewish preisthood rejected him (although many Jewish individuals accepted him), the doorway to salvation / that higher consciousness (Knowledge?) was opened to all, not just the 'chosen people' from that time on. This scenario leads me to wonder if 'all bets are off' regarding certain human conduct (adultery, greed, etc) and if alot is being overlooked in light of the primary task of opening up people's consciousness and connecting them with the divine. I now seriously question what I have gotten myself into. It is time to really ask the Most High for guidance and light to see by, to discern where I have been and where I am going in terms of consciousness. Sandy

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