cq -:- How blatantly deceptive can they get? -:- Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 18:16:33 (GMT)

__ PatC -:- How blatantly deceptive can they get? -:- Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 18:37:06 (GMT)

__ __ G -:- payments -:- Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 20:35:53 (GMT)

__ __ Francesca -:- It's the same old story as the 70s -:- Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 19:35:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ Cynthia -:- One of my last 'drips'... -:- Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 23:26:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Joe -:- God, it sounds creepy -:- Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 05:21:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- It was plain old Creepy and Weird... -:- Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 16:03:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- The toilet zone -:- Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 17:51:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Cynthia, I was trying to remember a toilet joke -:- Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 17:35:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Thanks for the update -:- Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 01:36:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ PatC -:- As I've said before to fringe PWKs: ''Go back!'' -:- Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 00:52:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Mercedes -:- One of my last 'drips'... -:- Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 00:06:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Gary E. -:- One of my last 'drips'... -:- Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 03:04:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Maharaji -:- You're in your mind, E. -:- Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 04:40:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gary E. -:- You're in your mind, E. -:- Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 22:48:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Maharaji -:- That's not good enough, asshole! -:- Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 00:00:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Oh Maharaji, ---BEST OF FORUM you asshole! -:- Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 06:00:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gary E. -:- That's not good enough, asshole! -:- Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 15:13:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Hysterical!! This is a must read! -:- Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 05:06:13 (GMT)

Date: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 18:16:33 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Everyone Subject: How blatantly deceptive can they get? Message:

From Elan Vital's UK website 'Admission to all the events organised by Elan Vital is free. This is made possible by the support of volunteers and donations. Maharaji himself receives no compensation from Elan Vital. Elan Vital co-operates with similar organisations around the world sharing common aims and objectives.' Is there anything true about any of these statements? Anything at all?

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Date: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 18:37:06 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: cq Subject: How blatantly deceptive can they get? Message:

Truthful version: Admission to all the events organised by Elan Vital is free for the two aspirants but the rest of you suckers have to pay a registration fee far in excess of the cost of the event. This is made possible by the support of volunteers and donations. Volunteers are those people who pay the mandatory registration fee. Donations are those funds collected at the door where you will be shaken down for more money. Maharaji himself receives no compensation from Elan Vital as he has already enriched himself from money which he took from DLM and the ashram premies. He now receives payments only from Visions International to whom he has given a revocable license to publish and broadcast his blather. Elan Vital UK co-operates with similar organisations around the world such as EV USA, EV Canada, EV Australia, EV South Africa and DLM India sharing common aims and objectives of further enriching Rev Feelgood Rawat.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 20:35:53 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: PatC Subject: payments Message:

I think he also gets payments from Elan Vital Ltd., Ivory's Rock Conference Center, and International Conference Management, also gifts from premies and shares of premies' businesses.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 19:35:07 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: PatC Subject: It's the same old story as the 70s Message:

The first hit is free. After you are brainwashed and get K (unless you are smart enough to bolt), you think you are doing a service to mankind to give money to M, and to pay registration 'donations' for programs so that others can come and be suckered. I remember that during the years I was around it was very clear that the Western premies and ashrams were a cash cow so that he could tour all over the world and spread the message to those less fortunate souls. One of my earlier 'drips' was that he didn't seem to care for us. He'd tour about all over the world, and then have expensive programs here in the West, and way less of them. He uses EV to spread the word and brainwash folks, and then rakes in the dough free of EV. Money given to him directly isn't tax deductible, either. Double suckered. The latest sucker was to pay $75 a month to Visions so that everyone else can tune in M on the dish for free. I would LOOOVVVE to see the ratings on how many people tune that one in! I suppose premies are being told that now M can get his message to the world, because the 'dish' broadcasts will also be free. Let's wait for peace on earth to happen real soon. Has anyone watched these dish bored-casts? I'm just wondering how the new folks will be able to be brainwashed if all they do is listen to him. Are there announcements and adverts to buy your 'breathe' watches and join in a local community? Or what? From the satsangs that I have seen, the message is still that you are wasting your life if you don't follow K and him, and that of course, you are not worthy, so do they think that's enough? Feedback, anyone ??? Yes folks, low self-esteem will bite you in the a$$ is you meet up with the Smart-guru.

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Date: Thurs, Apr 19, 2001 at 23:26:52 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Francesca Subject: One of my last 'drips'... Message:

In the summer of 1998, I think it was, when the Rat had begun using the DishNet there were two groups (communities) of premies, VT-North (Montpelier area) and VT-South (Brattleboro) on the border of Massachusetts. The other premie group was in New Hampshire. When the Montpelier coordinator resigned, a woman from Middlebury, VT took over and moved the meeting place to her home and she and her husband bought a dish. Someone in Montpelier also got a dish and the folks in New Hampshire also got one. All in their homes. It was very confusing first because EV or Visions always wanted a head count in advance of the broadcasts in order to estimate how much to expect from our ''donations''. They gave a whole song and dance about having to buy time on the satelite server, DishNet, blaa, blaa, blaa. Anyway, my last drip was the fact that when Maharaji was speaking twice per day, two days in a row, once in the morning and once in the evening, it was $25.00 to $39.00 to watch each video feed--at the time he still allowed some live feeds--and it would cost at least $100.00 to watch him on TV over a weekend. They had a whole other set of ''charges'' if the feed was broadcast in a rented hall. The last time I attended one of these ''feeds'' I was killing time in between the morning one and the evening one (because nothing was happening in between) and I started reading one of the guidelines sent from Visions for charging for the feeds. In one of the paragraphs explaining how to charge folks I read the following ''...all PWKs attending are subject to a fee of...'' DripDripDrip! Subject to? Subject to? I literally got an upset stomach. Now, this was during my short attempt at returning to his creepy toes, and that was the final straw. No. I finally said no, Goober, I don't want to spend my life traveling 75 miles round trip to pay to watch you on TV. No. I don't want to pay to travel 180 miles round trip if the feed is only available in New Hampshire. NO. NO. NO. At the time I was trying to keep my credit card debt down, but Visions wanted only credit cards. I kept saying to myself, 'what is this shit?' So I always paid with a check (which wasn't Visions preference, and it always took them over a month to clear, so I don't know what that was about either). No one spoke to eachother. You couldn't talk to aspirants. The only people who had anything to say were us old timers, and it certainly wasn't satsang. No one would give me any history of the ''evolution.'' I do remember one time a few of us were sitting around waiting for the feed to start and the subject of Fakiranand came up. Well, the story was all screwed up. Someone said he hit a guy in Detroit over the head with a hammer during a knowledge selection because the aspirant said something negative about Maharaji. There were a bunch of laughs (yes) and the person added 'Yeah, and they got him out of the country REAL fast!' More laughs. I couldn't believe it. DRIP! All these things turned me off badly, not to mention Rev Foolhardy's crassness (the advent of his toilet humor), the expense of going to a regional event in Boston was very high--and poorly attended. Nothing made sense to me anymore, and I guess that's because I had spent enough time away from worshipping the lardness to be able to think, question, and analyze. It was all too weird for me. I do remember thinking: I am not going to follow Maharaji anymore. Period. When I got a computer and online, I came here instead! Everything was about money, money, money, money--in a real rude way, too. It was also during that time that I heard rumors that his lardness wanted a new jet. I kept asking, what happened to the DECA 707? No one would talk about the past. No one. It was forbidden. It gives new meaning to ''loose lips sink ships!'' After I read this site, I felt great relief because I knew I didn't have to feel guilty anymore, and could also save a lot of money by xing him out of my life. I don't know what their procedures are today for charging for the feeds. I am just so happy I'm finally out. Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 05:21:48 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: God, it sounds creepy Message:

Cynthia, thanks for that post. That's very interesting. When you say no one would talk about the past or about the 'evolution,' were you asking about it and nobody would tell you? Did you get the impression that they were afraid to say anything about it? So, when they had the satellite feed at somebody's house, did somebody come around and collect the money from you? If you said you didn't have it, would you have to leave? Did aspirants have to pay as well? What do you mean by Maharaji's 'toilet humor?' Can you remember anything specifically. As you know, I know people in your neck of the woods who, like you, were not really followers of fatso for a long time, but went back. The husband, I do not believe is really into it, but is just playing along to mollify his wife. I truly believe that, because it's someone I know very well. I'm looking forward to having a conversation with him in the near future.

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Date: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 16:03:57 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Joe Subject: It was plain old Creepy and Weird... Message:

Hi Joe, In response to your questions: When you say no one would talk about the past or about the 'evolution,' were you asking about it and nobody would tell you? Did you get the impression that they were afraid to say anything about it? So, when they had the satellite feed at somebody's house, did somebody come around and collect the money from you? If you said you didn't have it, would you have to leave? Did aspirants have to pay as well? I left the ashram in 1981 and was gone roughly 16 years. I missed a lot of stuff that happened, including the ashram closings, although I had seen M twice in the early 80's, once in Boston and also in NYC. I directly asked a lot of questions, especially about DECA and the 707 (btw, when I mentioned DECA I got a very bad vibe to shutup), why m had mandated that premies not give satsang, where did all the premies go, vegetarianism, the techs, smoking, drinking--no answers, but ''just watch the videos and you will get your answers.'' (I later discovered I had been doing the techs backwards from the way I was taught, and had a good laugh on M after I became an ex--they actually worked better the way I was doing them!) The only answers were generally ''that's what m wanted, m was very gentle when he closed the ashrams, he feels it is best if only he speaks of k.'' It was very uncomfortable, especially because I felt I had re-entered M's world, but it felt like a wasteland, a no-man's land. It wasn't so much a fear of answering my questions, rather a secrecy, a protection, which felt like they were under a 'gag order.' Very strange. As far as collecting the fees, it was an unspoken thing that if you didn't have the money, you didn't attend, except for aspirants who were not expected to pay. No one collected the money, we would just either write out checks at the end of the day or fill out a credit card slip and place it into the little wooden donations box--which was always placed on a table--even at the twice weekly video shows. What weirded me out the most was the Visions system of distributing monthly videos to the communities. It was set up so that each community had to subscribe at $275 (then) per month to receive the ''official subscription selections,'' but if you had bought a video directly from Visions it could not be shown in public venues, even if only premies attended. (God I hate that word, venue, now.) Anyway, because VT had so few folks, both the northern and southern premies shared the subscription fees and videos. I asked about this, thinking, what difference does it make if it's the same fucking tape--Hello? But Visions explained it away as a copyright thing. It was the strangest setup, because still being a true believer, I couldn't understand how this procedure was helping to spread k when Visions knew they were stretching the premies everywhere very thin. My sister told me they had the same problem in Hartford--not enough regular attendance and donations to cover the subscriptions. So what the coordinators would have to do is call premies with money to beg for cash to support the subscriptions. It was so screwy, it's hard to even explain. What do you mean by Maharaji's 'toilet humor?' Can you remember anything specifically. I can't remember specific jokes, but he'd talk about overflowing toilets, falling into toilets that were not so clean, etc. and premies loved it. Maybe others remember some specifics. To me it was very crass. I also heard that Raja also included toilets in his speaks at the time, too. Joe, I know you know the couple I'm talking about. I hope you can have a conversation with the husband. I never went back and haven't had any contact with them since. Take care, Love, Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 17:51:41 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: The toilet zone Message:

I loved one toilet joke of M's from back in my days. He said something about, what if you flushed the toilet and everything disappeared, and you were just out there sitting in the universe, on a toilet seat. I forget what the point was -- there probably was none. He used to throw these types of statements into his satsangs. It was a funny concept. I called it 'the toilet zone.' I'm sure he's made a string of others since I've left.

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Date: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 17:35:02 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Cynthia, I was trying to remember a toilet joke Message:

but I could not. All I know is the Rev Moonbeam did tell lots of scatological jokes most of which I enjoyed because I also have a coarse sense of humor unfortunately. Your story above is almost word for word my own experience going back after 17 years. It was the secrecy which really got to me as well as Visions control of the video events. The videos were rated into three categories: 1) introductory 2)learning more - for aspirants 3) and those for PWKs only and god help you if you showed the wrong video to the wrong audience. If a new person turned up a suitable video was quickly found to replace the one for the PWKs. It gave me the creeps. You said: ''I later discovered I had been doing the techs backwards from the way I was taught, and had a good laugh on M after I became an ex--they actually worked better the way I was doing them!'' They worked better because you were doing them the traditional way. Rawat teaches them backwards to impress peasants with light and music and it actually creates a battle with the mind.

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Date: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 01:36:48 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Thanks for the update Message:

I've been gone so long that I need to be filled in. Pat C fills me in on a lot of it too, since he recently exited (this summer). Love, f

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Date: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 00:52:16 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: As I've said before to fringe PWKs: ''Go back!'' Message:

Get involved again. It's a sure-fire way to cure one of Maharajism once and for all. When you see that it is a money-making scam and a conspiratorial cult, it's over. Praise the lord and pass the ammunition! Let's do the scumbag in. Not real ammo - I just mean spoken and written truth - words.

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Date: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 00:06:57 (GMT) From: Mercedes Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: One of my last 'drips'... Message:

Hi Cynthia, powerful post, I am happy you are out too. The money thing always got me and I kept it at bay thinking it was my mind but it bugged me terribly as it does today. The more time passes and I am out the clearer I get. I am still getting out of debt for going to India and other events. I am still trying to get my life together and gradually I am succeeding. I am so super glad I am not involved anymore. It is a sham and the lard will fall by his own weight. Mercedes

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Date: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 03:04:40 (GMT) From: Gary E. Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: One of my last 'drips'... Message:

Makes me think of the time I attended a program in Brighton, UK and I bought a video there - it was in PAL format (Europe) not NTSC (North America). Of course when I got home I couldn't watch it on my VCR. So I called up Visions and spoke with Mary Wishard and asked her if I could exchange the video for the proper version. She told me that I would have to go through Visions in the UK since that is where I bought it. I put up a bit of a fuss, and she called me back to say that she would (albeit reluctantly) send me the correct video but not without making it clear to me that Visions is a money losing enterprise (the intimation was that I should just keep the video and buy another correct video). I remember thinking that for all Mary knew I could be a dewy-eyed aspirant and that this was poor 'customer' relations. All this to say that if Visions is not a revenue generating machine and if the purpose of Visions is to do the good work of 'spreading k' and inspiring the faithful and not lining m's pockets, then Visions should have the transparency to communicate the actual costs of the satellite feeds, etc., to the 'shareholders' (contributors). Think it will happen?

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Date: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 04:40:52 (GMT) From: Maharaji Email: None To: Gary E. Subject: You're in your mind, E. Message:

After all I did for you! And you can't buy a single fucking video tape, for God's sake. You filthy piece of shit. I always knew you weren't the surrendering kind. I look at you, E., and I'll tell you what. Well, I'll tell you what I DON'T see. I don't see no fuckin devotee, that's what I don't see. So you start posting on this fucking sewage pit of a website and all you can talk about is MONEY? What about the love, asshole? What about the fucking love you PROMISED -- that's right, PROMISED -- me for the rest of your stupid, miserable life, asshole? I mean, you just look at all I did for you, you fucking little creep. I GAVE you this fucking knowledge to begin with (yeah I know, well we AAAALLLLL can make mistakes, asshole, don't give me any of that shit. Even I make a few once in a while). And I TRIIIIIEEED to teach you SOMETHING about devotion. And now look at you? You have any idea what my father would do to you if he were alive? He'd beat you the fuck up with a fucking stick, you little piece of shit, that's what he'd do. And you know what? I'd like to be there watching, yes I would. The nerve you got coming here after all those years and bitching about some fucking video that--hey, get this, looser-- you obviousl never understood no matter WHAT format it was in! Fuck off ...no, this is better: Kiss my fucking feet, jerkoff! Get lost!

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Date: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 22:48:31 (GMT) From: Gary E. Email: None To: Maharaji Subject: You're in your mind, E. Message:

Pranam Maharaji. Forgive me oh Lord for I have sinned. I am an insignificant piece of shit and I am not worthy to even gaze upon your digitized, sat-allah-lite, image. Instead of my love, devotion and money I offer petty complaints. Whining when I should be serving . . . the ungrateful, mind-full wretch that I am. Yea, I am not worthy to eat from the gold toilet in your yacht. Thank you for allowing me to at least give you ten years of my life in celibacy, poverty, and obeisance while you got drunk and stoned and laid in your little house on the prayery. I'm sorry Lord for thinking I was following your agya to assist in bringing Knowledge to the world - it failed because of wretches like me. To penance for my transgressions I promise to start participating synchronously with your local team. Your duly chastised, reversely and perversely evolved creep of a devotee, gary xxx

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Date: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 00:00:42 (GMT) From: Maharaji Email: None To: Gary E. Subject: That's not good enough, asshole! Message:

No, no, no, no, NO! You can't manipulate me with that transparent guilt trip bullshit, E.. I'm the King of Guilt Trips, bud. I don't need some goofy-assed Canadian -- you ARE Canadian, aren't you? Fuck, what's with these Dudley Doorights anyway? Wasn't that Mishler guy ... no, not him. Whowas that other one? The guy with the moustache? What 's that? They ALL had moustaches? No, I'm talking about the one that always had the moustache. Fuck, I hate it when this happens? Marolyn? Marolyn? Where is that bitch? Raja Ji, get off your fat ass and see if you can find her, will ya'? Tell her I've got something to ask ... no, wait. This is silly. Raja Ji, you can answer my question: what was the name of that guy, the accoutant guy from Canada.. DETTMERS! That's it. Thanks. Okay, you can go now. Y' hear me? You can ... Oh, Marolyn, thanks for dropping by. What the fuck's wrong with you? Didn't you hear me calling? Like what the hell did you have to do that was so fuckign important that I have to call like that? Anyway, don't worry your still-kinda-pretty head over it. I don't need you anymore. Naw, I'm just talking about right now. Hey, relax, will ya'? I said I was kidding. Now get out of here, I'm talking with this little punk asshole here. This Canadian fucking premie piece of shit. You ever see anything this pathetic, Marolyn? Ok, you can go. Dettmers! That was it? You ever know that guy, E.? Well he was a lot like you only smarter. He actually went somewhere, if you know what I mean. Yeah, he was a Canadian too but that didn't stop him. You, on the other hand, E. .. Quit looking at me! Did I say you could look at me? Listen, motherfucker, you're damned right that you don't appreciate dick. You don't appreciate dick because I haven't given you the gift of appreciation, fuckface. You've got nothing. I've got everything and -- here's how the game works. I, me, Maharaji -- get it? -- I have everything. You, piece-of-shit E., you got nothing. Now you want something? You ask. Hey, what are you doing? YOU LOOK AT ME WHEN I'M TALKING TO YOU! You got nothing, E., and that means you don't know shit about poetry, you don't know nothing about appreciation. Clarity is NOT a french liquer and gratitude.... I feel gratitude, E.. Know what for? I feel gratitude knowing that I'm not you, asshole! yeah, I thank my lucky stars when I see something liek you that I'm a Rawat, not some nothing Canadian piece of shit like you. You know what it means to be a Rawat, stupido? No, you don't. You don't know shit so I'll tell you. Being a Rawat is like being way the fuck up there, you got that? It's like WAY the fuck up there! You know my idiot brother? No, not Raja Ji, Bhole Ji. Well even he's got something you don't have, asshole. Know what that is? He's a Rawat. You're a little twat and he's a Rawat. Hey, I kinda like that. Maybe there's a poem or something. Got to give that to Daya. What are you looking at?? Didn't I tell you?? There, that's better. Listen, E., I'm tired now. Please tell Moni -- Marolyn. Please tell Marolyn to hold my calls and do yourself a favour, 'kay? Get the fuck out of here! Marolyn! Marolyn! God, didn't I just call her in here? Where IS that woman? Okay, Marolyn, listen, I want you to take E. out to the kitchen and give him something to do. E., you're here to work, not eat. Not talk. Not do nothing I don't tell you. You're an inch away from some serious shit, E., and this is no time you want to be fucking with me. You got that? Good. Now fuck off. I'm tired. Thanks, Marolyn. Watch the guy, huh? Got a bit of a bad feeling about him. For one thing, he's a starer. You know how much I hate that. He's got like no money, I don't think. Like I say, he's a piece of shit. They're ALL shit, Marolyn. I'm so sick of this crap but, well, what else could I do? No, this is my fate, fuck you very much. Prem Pal Sing Rawat, guru to a bunch of fucking goofs. Anyway, I'm tired. Gonna take a nap. When I get up I definitely don't want to see that guy around here. And you know I mean it.

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Date: Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 06:00:34 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Maharaji Subject: Oh Maharaji, ---BEST OF FORUM you asshole! Message:

n/t

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Date: Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 15:13:58 (GMT) From: Gary E. Email: None To: Maharaji Subject: That's not good enough, asshole! Message:

Pranam and full castrations at your holy, curvaceous feet. Dear Lord, let me be so bold as to suggest your memory might be ever so slightly addled by your ministrations of cognac, the accountant from Canada was David Goulet. Whatever happend to him anyway, he was doing your books for a while wasn't he? But you're right he did have a moustache, and a very impressive one at that - he certainly gave Bihari-Ji a run for his curling wax. Hope all is going well with the fireplaces you're having installed on the yacht. Ahoy there matey and pay watchit anand, your humble pile of crap, gary xxx oy

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Date: Fri, Apr 20, 2001 at 05:06:13 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Maharaji Subject: Hysterical!! This is a must read! Message:

That really made me laugh! But maybe it's all the Pear Cider I've been drinking. Could be that, too.

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