Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Jan 06, 2002 To: Jan 13, 2002 Page: 4 of: 5


Missy -:- What I won't miss in 2002 -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:57:06 (EST)
__ Steve Mueller -:- Re: What I won't miss in 2002 -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 19:47:08 (EST)
__ Joe -:- PLEASECONSIDERTHIS -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 16:08:21 (EST)
__ __ Steve Mueller -:- Re: PLEASECONSIDERTHIS -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 20:08:40 (EST)
__ __ Peg -:- Re: PLEASECONSIDERTHIS -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 19:36:09 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- I can only imagine his singing... -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 18:17:05 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- ...Or this....|D -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 18:25:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Those are SOOOO funny! -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 22:45:47 (EST)
__ __ Chris -:- Re: PLEASECONSIDERTHIS -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 16:25:00 (EST)
__ Chris -:- Thanks for the therapeutic LOLs - sure can relate! -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 15:52:36 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Hi Missy. -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 14:41:19 (EST)
__ __ x -:- Re: Hi Missy. -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 18:01:43 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- Welcome Missy... -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 14:24:21 (EST)
__ Jerry -:- Re: What I won't miss in 2002 -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 11:07:12 (EST)
__ __ yeah_right_210 -:- Re: What I won't miss in 2002 -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 18:04:16 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- You already sound happier -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 03:49:24 (EST)
__ __ no name, please -:- Re: You already sound happier -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 18:07:42 (EST)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- Good, I'm glad I was of some service. -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 02:42:57 (EST)
__ __ __ __ peg -:- Thanks Tonette! -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 06:31:34 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Welcome, Missy, well said and funny too [nt] -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 03:12:48 (EST)
__ Bodhi -:- Ditto! -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 22:25:10 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- Good resoutions for the new year Missy, thanks [nt] -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 21:32:16 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Great post Missy -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 20:03:54 (EST)
__ Kelly -:- Re: What I won't miss in 2002 -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 19:11:27 (EST)
__ Suzie -:- Hi Missy, I can relate -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 18:35:03 (EST)
__ JHB -:- Welcome Missy! -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:58:32 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- Yeah, me too -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 19:15:00 (EST)

JHB -:- EPO Stats summary -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:55:27 (EST)
__ Brian Smith -:- Great statistics JHB -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 21:09:17 (EST)

Elizabeth -:- Another note from Janet's friend -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:32:05 (EST)
__ Jim -:- Janet's friend, eh? What a surprise! [nt] -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 22:19:25 (EST)
__ Jerry -:- Re: Another note from Janet's friend -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 11:12:09 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- Re: Another note from Janet's friend -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 02:01:19 (EST)
__ Debrah -:- Who's putting people down? Who are you? [nt] -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 20:05:02 (EST)
__ JHB -:- Aren't you putting us down? -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:36:30 (EST)

Cynthia -:- Pedophiles and the Vatican NOT OT -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 14:12:07 (EST)
__ Barbara -:- Too much, too little, too late... -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 23:04:43 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- Sickening. -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 03:28:24 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Sickening....Yes.. -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 14:20:17 (EST)
__ Joe -:- Catholic Church Hypocrisy/Jagdeo -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 19:30:42 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- The Similarities--Jagdeo and Maharaji -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 14:54:49 (EST)

Joe -:- Passages -- Insulting Cult Revisionist Spin -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 12:18:38 (EST)
__ Yeah, yeah -:- Those (unidentified)Indian cultural problems -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 12:30:46 (EST)
__ Francesca :~) -:- Who's sari now??? -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 02:49:28 (EST)
__ __ Disculta -:- Re: Who's sari now??? -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 12:25:06 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- ICult does not show that video in India -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 03:10:17 (EST)
__ Pullaver -:- Re: Passages -- Insulting Cult Revisionist Spin -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 19:51:05 (EST)
__ Pullaver -:- Duplicate post by error - pls disregard (nt) -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 19:49:06 (EST)
__ Jenny -:- There's those saris again -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 18:07:50 (EST)
__ __ Brian Smith -:- I am sorry about the sari thing -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 22:02:13 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Forgot about Durga Ji -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 19:23:04 (EST)
__ __ __ Jenny -:- Re: Forgot about Durga Ji -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 20:13:06 (EST)
__ Lesley -:- The Triangle -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 16:32:12 (EST)
__ Gregg -:- Re: Cult Revisionism -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 14:27:58 (EST)

Jim -:- EV's death throttle? M's demise? -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 11:55:41 (EST)
__ Hey JM -:- This is an important BEST OF F..nt -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 18:39:21 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- Yes! I hope the plane is next -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 05:11:12 (EST)
__ CW -:- In your dreams. -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 23:57:46 (EST)
__ __ The Maharaji of Malibu's -:- control is demonstrated here by CW -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 07:43:39 (EST)
__ __ Abi -:- Are you david harper? -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 00:24:50 (EST)
__ __ __ CW -:- Re: Are you david harper? -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 00:38:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Cat, maybe you can help -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 12:01:41 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Abi -:- you've met my Dad? -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 05:11:24 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: you've met my Dad? -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 05:33:49 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- That was not a fair answer! -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 08:24:59 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- It was an honest one. -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 08:38:07 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Who's Derek Harper? -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 14:29:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- David Harper was the Question? -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 15:53:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Abi -:- who are you? -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 20:00:03 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Catweasel -:- Re: who are you? -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 02:13:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: who are you? -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 05:20:50 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- I just don't believe this! -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 03:47:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- I agree, Tonette. Bad CW! -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 04:36:55 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Tonette, CW is an architypal -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 04:30:15 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Catweasel -:- Absolute frogshit Jethro -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 05:24:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Like I've said to you before -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 05:38:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: Like I've said to you before -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 07:47:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Hi Abi (OT) -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 22:20:13 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: David Harper was the Question? -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 17:14:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: David Harper was the Question? -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 02:15:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- So, you know me? Hmmmm... -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 14:57:42 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: So, you know me? Hmmmm... -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 22:01:35 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- You don't comprehend well... -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 15:04:36 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- I plead guilty. I tend to be so righteous. -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 09:21:02 (EST)
__ __ jamet -:- woohoo-go tell the maha that!!! -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 00:20:38 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Nice one, Janet. Well put. Great! [nt] -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 03:26:48 (EST)
__ __ __ CW -:- Re: woohoo-go tell the maha that!!! -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 00:40:55 (EST)
__ JHB -:- What about the yacht? -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:16:45 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- What ABOUT THAT Yacht -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 15:10:33 (EST)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- Thanks Cynthia and JHB nt -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 02:50:56 (EST)
__ __ Tonette -:- Gosh that would be fun to find out -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 08:40:07 (EST)
__ __ __ JHB -:- I'm not leaving -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 10:12:36 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Good Riddance. -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 15:56:52 (EST)
__ __ Pullaver -:- Minders -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 22:02:14 (EST)
__ __ Kelly -:- Re: Good Riddance. -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 18:41:56 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Jagdeo and Maharaji... -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:13:14 (EST)
__ Joe -:- His children threatened??? -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 14:51:04 (EST)
__ salsa -:- Why? Where this number comes from? -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 13:04:26 (EST)
__ __ Moll of Mole -:- Re: Why? Where this number comes from? -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 16:11:04 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- I'll try to find out -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 19:19:41 (EST)
__ __ __ silvia -:- Re: I'll try to find out -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 05:19:44 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- What a great post -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 12:40:30 (EST)
__ __ Anandaji -:- Security concerns -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 21:08:22 (EST)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- 1st metal detector was 96 or 97 -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 03:42:41 (EST)
__ __ __ Deborah -:- Think it is very recent -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 21:16:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Anandaji -:- Re: Think it is very recent -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 21:26:59 (EST)

Mirror -:- The Teacher Trap -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 10:48:02 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Re: The Teacher Trap -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 14:59:54 (EST)
__ Sir Dave -:- At the feet of the master -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 11:55:38 (EST)
__ __ PatD -:- Re: At the feet of the master -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 16:39:07 (EST)

Vicki -:- Buying into lila -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 06:17:13 (EST)
__ Kelly -:- Re: Buying into lila, the fundamental fallacy. -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:32:21 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Hey, Kelly, how are the trees? -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:40:05 (EST)
__ __ __ Kelly -:- Re: Hey, Kelly, how are the trees? -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:56:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- Re: Hey, Kelly, how are the trees? -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 18:07:53 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Timberrrrrrr! nt -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 19:22:12 (EST)
__ Mirror -:- Re: Buying into lila -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 08:02:12 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- ''But we can never understand the Master'' -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 14:46:45 (EST)
__ __ __ yeah_right_210 -:- Re: ''But we can never understand the Master'' -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:07:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Nail on head, Mr 210! :) [nt] -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:10:39 (EST)

Marianne -:- Saris and Hindu ritual made you leave M? -:- Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 23:58:11 (EST)
__ Susan -:- me!!!!!!!!!! -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 21:30:33 (EST)
__ __ Susan -:- also -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 21:35:37 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Sore about Saris? -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:32:37 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- The premies trying to be something they were not! -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 10:25:10 (EST)
__ Salam -:- Re: Saris and Hindu ritual made you leave M? -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 04:00:00 (EST)
__ Boadicea -:- Not this little Black Duck!!!(nt) -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 00:22:49 (EST)
__ __ Cynthai -:- Oh Yeah, I always wore Saris... -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 01:20:23 (EST)
__ __ __ Zelda -:- twas a painful sight -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 01:59:15 (EST)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- but did u have earth shoes???? -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 00:44:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: but did u have earth shoes???? -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 15:16:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- errr .. I still wear earth shoes -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 02:19:29 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- How many of you spoke with a Hindu/English accent? -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 12:57:51 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- We did it as a joke. -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 13:14:15 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: We did it as a joke. -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 14:19:09 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- they did it -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 18:27:46 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- they did it -:- Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 18:27:43 (EST)


Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:57:06 (EST)
From: Missy
Email: None
To: All
Subject: What I won't miss in 2002
Message:
As an new ex-premie, what I won’t miss about being in Maharaji’s cult in 2002:

Sitting on the telephone phone for hour after hour after hour over two day straight days dialing into EV to purchase our seats to attend one of M’s events. No matter how long it took or how short it took to dial in and get an operator, we never were able to sit closer than half way to the front. We just weren’t rich enough to be able to afford such service.

Reading the really stupid heavily edited M excerpts posted daily on the EV Newsletter, which I no longer subscribe to, but is now defunct. But also I’ll miss Erica and David Andersen’s and Mitch Ditkoff’s totally stupid PLEASECONSIDERTHIS website. What a hoot that was. Like reading “Cosmo” for the spiritually backwards.

Listening to Charnanand after dinner speeches at various dinners, events, gatherings. What a bore. I am so over his Hindu stoires. They don’t make any sense anymore to me.

Listening to a certain Perfect Master’s singing, piano pecking, poetry and lectures. B O R I N G. It’s all over now, baby blue.

Being asked to provide services for the local “resource team” at their local fundraising silent auction, wine and brie gatherings.

Slaving half way around the world. Travelling half way around the world. Paying for my airfare and hotels while travelling half way around the world.

Never being satisfied with whatever I got from EV/M. Always needed more darshan, more chances to do service (slave away), always needed to hear him speak again and again, even if I just spent a week listening to him.

Smiling at the Industrial Strength Church Ladies as they smooth out those starched white table cloth linens outside the entrance to the local hotel meeting room where the local video events were held with a total attendance, including staff, of eight persons a night.

Kissing his feet with those wet, gobby grey socks on with the large wet lipstick stains. Yuck!

Running into M’s daughter, the lounge singer, making out with her boyfriend in the event hotel elevators with her fake fur coat on and carrying her little overnight make-up kit at 8 am in the morning, one her way “home” to the Residence in the middle of the event.

Listening to the instructions and orders of the Security Nazis who in the name of service act like outright fascists and stooges. What a bunch of losers.

Running, like a bunch of freaks at a “Who” concert, for a seat at Amaroo, where there are no longer any seat numbers or tickets and it’s a real mad scramble when the gates open. Dangerous, unnecessary, stunk.

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 19:47:08 (EST)
From: Steve Mueller
Email: mistyqm@mn.mediaone.net
To: Missy
Subject: Re: What I won't miss in 2002
Message:
Hello Missy! Good to have you aboard!

Welcome to freedom from Rev Rat's Tear-runny! EPO is fantastic! Such a delightful way to exit his madness. I've only been an ex myself for a short while but even in that short time I've seen the exodus from M growing at a quickening rate. I strongly suspect that this is the year that the cult will finally implode and EPO is playing a big part in that process in such an entertaining, educational and therapeutic way.

Missy, I absolutely love your post. Hilarious. I couldn't stop laughing. Being in the middle of the U.S. its good to know I didn't miss much by not being on M's doorstep out there. Boy, you were ripe to ex, weren't you? Looking forward to hearing more from you. Thanks for sharing.

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 16:08:21 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Missy
Subject: PLEASECONSIDERTHIS
Message:
I have to say I also miss the Andersen's PLEASECONSIDERTHIS website. I wasn't that entertained in a long time. It was a hoot, you're right. I just wish it could have continued for awhile.

What is Maharaji's singing like? I can just imagine, though.

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 20:08:40 (EST)
From: Steve Mueller
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: PLEASECONSIDERTHIS
Message:
My last drip before tuning M out and turning on to EPO was an unbelievable video I saw at a premie's house on Thanksgiving of last year. M was taped singing (yes! I kid you not! As the all-knowing, greater-than-God one is my witness!) at Hans Jayanti in India, I think it was the previous year, Nov, 2000. He accompanied his lounge singer daughter, Daya. What's really funny is that I had not yet heard about EPO (I did 15 minutes later) or had known about any of his less than divine behaviors, including his drinking. And yet, while the premie I was visiting was completely and totally blissed out by it, it occurred to me while watching him that - hey, he really sounds like he is drunk! I didn't tell the premie that but later that night when I logged on to EPO and learned about his heavy drinking, then, BINGO! Yep! It all made sense. He definitely was drunk all right. Presumably the folks he entrusted to edit it were either so enamored at the sight of seeing him sing that they just failed to see it or else SOME closet EX pulled off a beautiful little piece of revenge without getting caught. If you are on good enough terms with a premie you know, see if you can't catch this one or talk them into procuring it from Visions just before they ex. Believe me, it will truly do your heart a world of good to see him singing while intoxicated with more than just nectar. Good Stuff!
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 19:36:09 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: PLEASECONSIDERTHIS
Message:
Maharaji's singing is not quite in tune..He sings a bit like he dances...conducting his blissful devotees. Oh dear oh dear!
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 18:17:05 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I can only imagine his singing...
Message:
It could be like this...
[ Virtuoso ]
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 18:25:56 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: ...Or this....|D
Message:
...it could be like this...

Requires flash, and is rated R.
[ Weeeeeee! ]

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 22:45:47 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Those are SOOOO funny!
Message:
Thanks
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 16:25:00 (EST)
From: Chris
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: PLEASECONSIDERTHIS
Message:
Hi Joe - believe me you're not missing much - I've NEVER heard anything so bad - my eyes, nose, mouth - no my whole face - was cringing. I almost started to do the music technique right then and there to ease the pain.... Not only could he not carry a simple 3-note tune, but people were swaying in orgasmic ecstacy as if it were better than Andrea Bocelli - unbelievable......
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 15:52:36 (EST)
From: Chris
Email: None
To: Missy
Subject: Thanks for the therapeutic LOLs - sure can relate!
Message:
(nt)
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 14:41:19 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Missy
Subject: Hi Missy.
Message:
Thanks for that refreshing post and welcome back to the human race.

Life in a religious cult isn't all it's cracked up to be. Shit, even the blueprint to abolish all the 'bullet guns' has been abandoned. It's wierd how it all changed from establishing peace on Earth, into scraping together the next installment on the Captain's private jet.

Ah well, you can't win 'em all.

It only gets better.

Anth, who was really looking forward to watching the lion establish a deep and meaningful relationship with the lamb.

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 18:01:43 (EST)
From: x
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Hi Missy.
Message:
Anth, the lion and the lamb will have a deep and meaningful relationship, but..........you will have to put a new lamb in the cage everyday.
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 14:24:21 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Missy
Subject: Welcome Missy...
Message:
First, I want to tell you your post was wonderful and funny. More, please...

I've never been to Amaroo, but as I remember, we used to run like herds of cattle into the Orange Bowl for that spray gun Holi thingy he used to do. I always hated Holi.

Again, welcome to the real world.

Cynthia J. Gracie
Vermont

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 11:07:12 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Missy
Subject: Re: What I won't miss in 2002
Message:
Running into M?s daughter, the lounge singer, making out with her boyfriend in the event hotel elevators with her fake fur coat on and carrying her little overnight make-up kit at 8 am in the morning, one her way ?home? to the Residence in the middle of the event.

Now that I think I'd miss. Seriously, that's funny. Did she stop when you got on the elevator, or did she even notice you were there? You don't have to really answer. I just think it's great hearing these little anecdotes about how human these superbeings are under their divine facades.

Was her loverboy a premie? Heh, heh.

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 18:04:16 (EST)
From: yeah_right_210
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Re: What I won't miss in 2002
Message:
Was her loverboy a premie? Heh, heh.


---

Yes, he is, and a personal friend of mine. Poor bastard, is my feeling.

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 03:49:24 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Missy
Subject: You already sound happier
Message:
Welcome. Thanks for that perspective.
Your post makes me better understand the meaning of the word 'freedom.'
I can't envision, judging from what you wrote, that you will have much issue with missing much, if anything at all, associated with M and his con. It will be interesting to see what new opportunities arise for you now that your attention is no longer focused on the delusion.
Keep us posted if you think it's something you can tell us about here.

It's hard to be, in fact impossible, to be objective when looking at one's self, but I can say from observing my husband, when he exited, he became more honest, less irritable, his ability to reason, think and his memory improved. He became much less selfish and more appreciative of the world, it's beauty. His confidence improved and almost all of his cynicism disappeared. He wasn't a jerk or messed up as a person outwardly while practicing knowledge, and these changes in him are subtle, but I did notice them. He's more motivated and rational.

Congradulations.

Fondly,
Tonette

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 18:07:42 (EST)
From: no name, please
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Re: You already sound happier
Message:
It's hard to be, in fact impossible, to be objective when looking at one's self, but I can say from observing my husband, when he exited, he became more honest, less irritable, his ability to reason, think and his memory improved. He became much less selfish and more appreciative of the world, it's beauty. His confidence improved and almost all of his cynicism disappeared. He wasn't a jerk or messed up as a person outwardly while practicing knowledge, and these changes in him are subtle, but I did notice them. He's more motivated and rational.


---

Dear God in heaven, Tonette, you give me hope. Thank you. My husband is such an amazing man. Without rawat constantly dragging him down, I can only imagine what he could be like.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 02:42:57 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: no name, please
Subject: Good, I'm glad I was of some service.
Message:
And hang in there. Ralwat and his minions have already dismantled too many unions for them to claim one more. Don't let them near yours! Tell them to keep their filthy hands off!

This is a subject that seems to be coming up frequently here lately. I may be wrong but there seems to be alot of spouses of premies posting and reading here. I know that my husbands involvement with the cult caused some real bad feelings between us at times. I remember I was so mad at him when he left me one time when I was 6 months pregnant and on our Vacation for God's sake, to go to an hour long program. I really thought that divorce was deserved and would probably be in the best interest of me and our son (who was 5 at the time) and our future daughter. And I knew just how to really get even with him and get everything at the same time! My plan was to find an excellent lawyer and have him watch some of Maharaji's videos as well as a having a look at a few old 'divine Times' I had stashed! I was going to use the argument that my husband was a CULT HEAD! I'll tell you, the going can get extremely difficult at times. I understand and feel for you. I really do and I certainly would never want to repeat some of the shit I put up with! But, I must say for me, it was worth sticking with the marriage, especially now that he's out.
We still have our moments, don't get me wrong, nothings perfect, alas, but I do see a change in him that is although not spectacular, is a great improvement and I feel much more secure with him.
If I had to sum up how I dealt my husbands 'devotion and admiration of Maharaji' as well as all the fucking hours he wasted meditating when he could of been doing anything else, I would say you need plenty of patience, the ability to hold your tongue sometimes, good attitude, recognition of and focus on all of his good qualities, and hope.

Peace to you and good luck. If you ever want to talk, my email is netguest42@yahoo.com. Know that you are not alone.

Tonette

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 06:31:34 (EST)
From: peg
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Thanks Tonette!
Message:
Perhaps there should be a special section on epo; 'If your loved one is a premie'
Peg
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 03:12:48 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: Missy
Subject: Welcome, Missy, well said and funny too [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 22:25:10 (EST)
From: Bodhi
Email: None
To: Missy
Subject: Ditto!
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 21:32:16 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Missy
Subject: Good resoutions for the new year Missy, thanks [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 20:03:54 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Missy
Subject: Great post Missy
Message:
Welcome to the forum. What was the final straw for you?
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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 19:11:27 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Missy
Subject: Re: What I won't miss in 2002
Message:
Missy? Is that your name? or just a state of mind?
That was a truly hilarious summing up of a premies life. I really don't miss it.
thanks for the laugh, but it hurts a little!
Kelly
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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 18:35:03 (EST)
From: Suzie
Email: None
To: Missy
Subject: Hi Missy, I can relate
Message:
I really loved your post and it kind of sums up where I was about a year ago. It took my husband a little longer to exit, but not much.

I have this image of 3000 middle-aged premies racing for seats at Amaroo and it is not an attractive picture. One of my friends asked why I left Maharaji, and I just said 'eventually, you have to grow up and for me it was way past time.'

Interesting about the lounge singer daughter. Do I take it that she isn't likely headed for a career in social work or occupational therapy?

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:58:32 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Missy
Subject: Welcome Missy!
Message:
If I ever leave this forum, I'll miss posts like yours. Thank you and welcome.

John.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 19:15:00 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Yeah, me too
Message:
There's a certain, je ne sais quoi, un petit frission, peut etre? one gets from hanging out with people who're breaking free. It's addictive. And funny. Great post, Missy. Got any more?
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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:55:27 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: All
Subject: EPO Stats summary
Message:
Here is a summary of EPO access since being back online:-

(Figures in parentheses refer to the 7-day period ending Jan 08 2002 at 2:17 AM).
Successful requests: 155,216 (153,235)
Average successful requests per day: 21,450 (21,890)
Successful requests for pages: 38,442 (38,060)
Average successful requests for pages per day: 5,312 (5,437)
Failed requests: 2,761 (685)
Redirected requests: 196 (57)
Distinct files requested: 1,652 (1,647)
Distinct hosts served: 2,539 (2,512)
Corrupt logfile lines: 3
Data transferred: 2.122 Gbytes (2.098 Gbytes)
Average data transferred per day: 300.349 Mbytes (306.955 Mbytes)

The significant figure is tha average number of pages accessed per day - 5312. Assuming an average of 5 pages read for each visitor, that makes 1000 visitors per day.

John.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 21:09:17 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Great statistics JHB
Message:
These impressive numbers represent what I believe to be the current trend amongst the cult today.

People everywhere now more than ever before are getting informed and leaving the cult moreso than there are those who are trying to get interested in K&M and join in.

I say this because m's latest exclusionary approach to propagate today via secret meetings seems more an effort as a stop gap measure to counter attrition that it does to introduce new inductees into the cult.

Instead of concentrating on a new market the focus and effort today is on to shore up the support of the already converted and prevent leakage from within the cult.

This action only furthers the point that the cult is not in a growth phase. At best they are fighting the war against attrition and losing many battles there as well.

The EPO statistics also illustrate quite clearly and edify the probability that there is a mass cult exodus occcuring way beyond the number of people who post regularly and or chance contribute publically here on the forum.

Thanks for sharing this important information JHB it is priviledge to see and be included in what is going on with the bigger picture

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:32:05 (EST)
From: Elizabeth
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Another note from Janet's friend
Message:
i again direct this to jan but it is to all of you.as an ex cult member myself i find it disgusting thjat you are all into putting people down.i am not a kiwi i am damn intellegent,if anything i am the original magenta sheep let janet explain iam through talking for the moment`
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 22:19:25 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Elizabeth
Subject: Janet's friend, eh? What a surprise! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 11:12:09 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Elizabeth
Subject: Re: Another note from Janet's friend
Message:
i again direct this to jan but it is to all of you.as an ex cult member myself i find it disgusting thjat you are all into putting people down.i am not a kiwi i am damn intellegent,if anything i am the original magenta sheep let janet explain iam through talking for the moment`


---

If you're so 'damn intellegent' how com u cant eeven fookin spel?

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 02:01:19 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Elizabeth
Subject: Re: Another note from Janet's friend
Message:
Dear Elizabeth,

Nothing you have written here makes sense. As Janet explained you are not an ex-premie, but an ex-cult member of the christian kind.

Why are you reading here and then feeling compelled to post? Who's attention are you trying to get?

I don't understand your motives in posting on this forum.

And you are writing/speaking in absolutes, too, such are ''you are all into putting people down.'' This is simply untrue.

This forum isn't about you, Elizabeth. It's about ex-followers of Maharaji and the cult we were in. Not about you.

If you don't like what is said here, you are welcome to leave.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 20:05:02 (EST)
From: Debrah
Email: None
To: Elizabeth
Subject: Who's putting people down? Who are you? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:36:30 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Elizabeth
Subject: Aren't you putting us down?
Message:
Elizabeth,

By accusing all of us of being into putting people down, aren't you putting us all down? I am also damn intelligent:-)

Seriously, I'm not sure what you want from this forum.

John.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 14:12:07 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Pedophiles and the Vatican NOT OT
Message:
I came across this report and thought it pertinent to the Maharajism cult and the lack of action, the lying, and the cover-up by Maharaji and his inner circle the about the sexual abuse of children by (Mahatma) Jagdeo.

I believe that the years long cover up and protection of this pedophile, Jagdeo by Maharaji/EV to be the most heinous of Maharaji's amoral behavior. Not only have Jagdeo's victims been forthright and painfully honest about their experiences of rape and sexual abuse, and severe woundings by this monster, but Maharaji and his organization, Elan Vital, conspired, IMO, to re-abuse the adult victims through intimidation of Abi, in particular, using tactics which have caused me and others to rise in protest and demand financial restitution, as well as, assist the victims in bringing this sex offender of children to justice.

Reading the following report about the Vatican renewed my outrage about the cowardice of religions and cults, Maharaji's in particular, when dealing with pedophiles.

Vatican Issues New Rules on Pedophile Priests

January 08, 2002 08:27 AM

By Philip Pullella

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican has quietly issued new rules for Roman Catholic churches around the world to deal with pedophile priests,
saying they should stand trial in secret ecclesiastical courts.

Pope John Paul and the Vatican issued two documents on the problem in 2001, but they were not presented at press conferences or made public as is usually the case for such documents.

Instead, they were published in Latin without any fanfare in the latest yearly volume of 'Acta Apostolicae Sedis,' (Acts of the Apostolic
See), the journal of record of the Holy See.

In recent years, the Roman Catholic Church around the world has been rocked by scandals involving pedophile priests, and the Vatican has been grappling with how to control the damage.

In his document, known in Latin as a 'Motu Proprio' and one of the highest forms of papal directives, the Pope authorized the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to issue guidelines on how to deal with the problem.

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, head of the Congregation, which deals with matters of faith and morals, sent a letter to all Roman Catholic
bishops and heads of religious orders outlining the Vatican's concerns.

'With this letter, we hope that not only will these serious crimes be avoided, but, above all, that the holiness of the clergy and the
faithful be protected by the necessary sanctions and by the pastoral care offered by the bishops and others responsible,' the letter said.

Ratzinger's letter said that if a local bishop or head of a religious order became aware of 'even a hint' of a case of pedophilia 'he must open an investigation and inform the (Rome) Congregation.'

SECRET CHURCH COURT

A local Church tribunal, made up of priests, should hear the case, which could be referred to the Vatican, but the procedures would be covered by church secrecy.

The letter made no mention of whether a bishop should inform civil authorities if a Church court found a priest guilty.

Last September, a French court handed down a three-month suspended jail term to a Roman Catholic bishop for failing to tell police that a priest in his diocese had admitted having sexually
abused children.

The Congregation, the modern successor of the Inquisition, included acts of pedophilia by priests as one of the 'grave offences' against the Church.

A cover sheet was attached asking the recipients not to divulge the information contained in the letter, Church sources said. The cover sheet was not published in the official record.

Pedophilia scandals, particularly in developed countries, have given the Church a black eye and have cost local dioceses millions of dollars in legal fees and financial settlements.

In a high-profile case in 2000, a U.S. jury found the Catholic diocese of Dallas, Texas, had concealed sexual abuse of boys by a priest and awarded the victims $119.6 million in damages -- the largest award up to then in a sexual abuse case.

The document established a 10-year statute of limitations, beginning on the victim's 18th birthday, in cases of pedophilia.

Priests found guilty of pedophilia can be dismissed from the Church and stripped of their priestly functions.
[ Reuters ]

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 23:04:43 (EST)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Too much, too little, too late...
Message:
I'm no fan of the Catholic Church. I went to Catholic school for 12 years and am thankful for the education, but that's about it.

Here's a story about the Church recycling pedophilic trash.
[ Catholic Trash ]

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 03:28:24 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Sickening.
Message:
So, in other words, don't compensate the victim, perhaps dismiss the priest as punishment, but don't bring charges (not likely to be any jail time involved), do not alert the general public nor the membership, that there is a sick fuck on the loose and do not address the problem with counseling and management of the pedophile.
The similarities between what the Catholics are doing and what Maharaji has done is amazing.

By-the-way, Maharaji and or EV monitor, Just WHERE IN THE HELL IS JAGEDO? YOU COULD NOT POSSIBLY NOT KNOW! BY YOUR SILENCE AND INACTION YOU ARE AS FILTHY AS HE IS! ALL OF YOU WHO ARE AIDING AND ABEITING JAGEDO SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

I just can't believe this. Isn't there anything associated with Maharaji and his cult that isn't about one thing, MONEY! Maharaji will never bring Jagedo forward because it would come out that he knew and did nothing! Guility by association and partly responsible. I feel like punching something but instead I think I'll barf.

Predators of children, they should all be shot.

Tonette

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 14:20:17 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Re: Sickening....Yes..
Message:
Hi Tonette,

It makes me sick too. But, as my good old Mom would say: ''String 'em up by the balls!''

The thing that really got to me about the Vatican is that they published the new policy in LATIN...Christ!

This Maharaji and the pedophile cover up and reabuse of Abi and Susan is something that always gets my ire up.

I will never stop speaking out about it. In a thread below, folks were asked what to do with Amaroo. I say, give it to the victims of Jagdeo and let them decide.

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 19:30:42 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Catholic Church Hypocrisy/Jagdeo
Message:
Amazing. If the Bishop finds out one of his priests is molesting little kids, he doesn't have to turn the guy over to the cops, he can turn the priest over to a secret ecclesiatical court that might defrock him and maybe kick him out of the church. Blimy, what a terrible punishment. He would have to get a new job and become an Epliscopalean.

Well, I guess that's better than what the Catholic Church used to do. If the pedophile was being discovered, he was just sent to another parish so he had a new crop of kids to molest.

Come to think of it, that sounds like what Maharaji did with Jagdeo. When he got discovered in the West, he let him tour anywhere for about 20 years, then sent him to India so he could prey on little girls in the Asian subcontinent.

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 14:54:49 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: The Similarities--Jagdeo and Maharaji
Message:
The similarities of secrecy are what stuck me about the article about RCC and maharaji.

Maharaji has known about Jagdeo's crimes for years and did nothing but obfuscate, cover up, and intimidate the victims.

I wonder about this cover up. Is it criminal? Amoral yes, But I do wonder what the authorities would think.

Cynthia, I'm typing away
---
WHEW~ b)

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 12:18:38 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: kevjo@mindspring.com
To: All
Subject: Passages -- Insulting Cult Revisionist Spin
Message:
Okay, so I will try to let as many ex-premies as possible see the video Passages -- A Master's Journey because I think it's an important document that really must be dissected and analyzed.

This video really does represent, I think, a distillation of the myopic, revisionist bunk that the Maharaji cult wants to put out, in an attempt to explain, really to the current followers more than anyone else, why there are so many ex-premies who have left Maharaji, while at the same time their cult is preaching that this is just about a simple experience of love and peace with no cult or religious strings attached.

It also appears to be a laughable attempt to explain away Maharaji's outrageous insensitivity and lack of caring for his followers in regard to the ashrams, and that extremely embarrassing, and difficult-to-explain fanatically, medieval 'devotional-worship-or-die' period Maharaji instituted after 1977 and continuing at least until 1983, that caused so many premies to damage their lives in so many ways.

And of course, Maharaji would never stoop to take any responsbility to make any explanations himself, and hence people like Ron Geaves and Glen Whittaker are left having to look ridiculous doing it for him.

Marianne's joke about the saris is not far off the mark. Let's just take the one issue that I mentioned down below, which might be of the most interest to those of us who used to be followers of Maharaji but have rejected him, especially if we left in the 80s, like many of us did.

The video says Maharaji came to the West, and bunch of people from the counter-culture start following him. There is even the trite, obligatory footage of the street sign at the corner of Haight and Ashbury. There are a number of semi-cute stories about Maharaji's 1971 arrival in London (mostly from Ron Geaves) and in Los Angeles (mostly from Joan Apter), with Gurucharanand giving long-winded, semi-mythological stories along the way, as we all know he just loves to do.

So things move along, and there is the blow-up with the family after Maharaji married an airline stewardess at age 16, which is all blamed on Mata Ji, but the way. There is no mention whatsoever about Maharaji's brother, Bal Bahgwan Ji, or the fact that he claims also to be the 'only' Perfect Master.

Okay, so things move along swimmingly until Maharaji encounters this problem. The problem is that there are all these Indian cultural things that are getting in the way of his mission to spread knowledge in the West. The seriousness of this problem is emphasized in the video by shots of Maharaji's backside. Solitary and brooding, he is staring out to sea in one shot, and walking through the shallow waves along a beach in another. This is really heavy and Maharaji had to think long and hard about what to do, it is implied.

So, the example we get of the Indian cultural problem is the saris. Glen Whittaker tells us the story about how the 'sari brigade,' at the ashram interefered with propagation, and the as-yet-unanmed blonde woman says she was freaked that she might have to wear a sari if she followed Maharaji, and, by god, she really didn't want to because she was from Wyoming and Montana.

As we all know, saris were NEVER an issue with premies in the West. That is just total nonsense. Some premies from India visiting the West might have worn saris, and perhaps some Westerners did very, very early like in 1971 did so. I was a premie from 1973 to 1983 and I never, not even once, saw an American premie wearing a sari, nor anyone who ever wanted to. The term 'red herring' is an understatement in this case. So, a viewer is left with the absurd conclusion that Maharaji had to work very hard to get premies to stop wearing saris, and performing other Hindu rituals, and, we find out later, those premies were so attached to Hindu rituals and apparel that they just missed out on the beautiful "gift" Maharaji offers and abandoned him for those entirely frivilous reasons.

To the defense of Glen and the blonde woman, I think this was more the result of editorial decisions, and not really the opinions of either of those speakers. It's just too preposterous to think either Glen or that woman would say anything that stupid on tape that everyone can hear. Joan Apter says that yes, there were all these (unidentified). Indian cultural problems and they were difficult to deal with. She never tells us what they are.

The reason we get this generalized statement and ridiculous comments about saris is that most of the 'Indian cultural' attributes, Arti (a ritual to M as god incarnate) and Darshan (the ceremony in which the premies kiss his feet) for example, which are by far the most extreme and damaging to propagation, have never been abandoned by Maharaji at all, and are routinely engaged in by him and his followers, although they don't want to talk about it.

Bobby Hendry says that he thought the ashram was a good place to learn the discipline to practice knowledge, but maybe there was an (again unidentified) Indian cultural element to it. This is, I guess, the explantion for closing the ashrams.

The most blatant, and the most obviously dishonest explanation is given by the guy I thought might be Gary Girard, but I'm not sure. Because his explanation is the most flagrantly wrong, and because it is also the most obviously condescending and 'holier than thow' I hope we identify this person soon, so perhaps we can encourage him to have a discussion with us. He really needs to be held up to the light of day for saying such irresponsible things.

Anyhow, this guy says, that many premies got into the 'Maharaji religion' and when Maharaji got rid of the 'religion' part of it, they weren't really experiencing the true thing that knowledge is, unlike him and the more evolved and dedicated premies, and hence they left Maharaji because he didn't have a religion anymore. It's not only dishonest and wrong, it's also a very insulting and stupid comment. As I said, I know of no premie who left Maharaji because he got rid of 'religious' elements or because he got rid of 'Indian cultural' practices. The statement is absurd.

They do an interesting thing in the video with the blonde woman (there she is again) that I think is editing and not her real opinion. She says that some of her friends 'stopped practicing' when Maharaji closed the ashrams because they 'felt betrayed.' She is cut off by the editors at that point, almost mid-sentence.

The implication they want to give of what she meant, is that these premies felt 'betrayed' because Maharaji closed the ashrams and they wanted the ashrams, as well as all the other Hindu-trips and hence they stopped practicing, because, like the other guy said, they were confused and into the 'Maharaji religion' and not the true experience.

Obviously, to the extent people felt 'betrayed' (and many people did) when Maharaji closed the ashrams, it was NOT because they wanted the ashrams, but they felt betrayed by Maharaji personally because he summarily dumped the ashram premies on the street with no explanation, after he had harrassed and threatened them into staying in the ashrams for years prior, demanding a life-long committment as a way to "serve" him, and by denigrating relationships, marriage, children, education, family and careers.

What those actions by Mahaharji did was make those 'betrayed' premies question whether Maharaji is somebody they would even want as their 'Master' in the first place, because he was obviously so unconcerned with the welfare or experience of his followers and because, based on his actions rather than on what he said, when he had exhorted us to devote and surrender ourselves to him and his 'grace.' They couldn't trust him anymore, and no longer believed he was worthy of being a 'Master.'

It's clear that the guy I thought was Gary Girard really does believe this insulting nonsense, or at least he is willing to say he believes it. The video makes it appear that the blonde woman, Glen Whittaker, Ron Geaves, Joan Apter, Bobby Hendry, Sandy Collier and John Hampton believe it as well, but the way the video was edited, I'm not so sure they would necessarily agree.

I hope more people will comment on this little piece of cult history.

And Ron, Glen, Joan, and the rest of you. What do you have to say for yourselves? How do you feel about how Dunrite Productions/Visions represented your opinions? And to the guy I thought was Gary Girard, shame on you.

Also, shame on Maharaji, because I am absolutely certain that this video would not have been released or shown without his personal approval.

I would like to now go and take a shower.

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 12:30:46 (EST)
From: Yeah, yeah
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Those (unidentified)Indian cultural problems
Message:
... like the problem Jagdeo and at least a dozen other Indian mahatmas had when they came to the west, with controlling their sexuality around people who worshipped them?
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 02:49:28 (EST)
From: Francesca :~)
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Who's sari now???
Message:
Bad. Bad. Couldn't resist! (GRINNN)

It all gets so stupid there's almost nothing to say. I mean, if it isn't obvious how stupid the whole thing is, it's a waste of breath telling the PAMs anything. The only ones I saw sporting saris besides the Indians was Durga Ji (Marolyn, M's wife), Claudia (Raja Ji's wife) and I think Suzy Bai once or twice (but I could be wrong about Suzy).

I was sickened when I heard about Michael Nouri's and M's revisionist DVD, too. This sounds like more of the same. I mean really, it's kind of strange. It's like watching a prisoner of war come out and say he no longer believes in his government. In this case, these people no longer believe their own memories, and no longer believe in themselves. Truly sad. Like whipped dogs or abused wives thinking everything's groovy.

If that's love, I don't need any.

'Love is an illness.'
--Romeo Void

Francesca

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 12:25:06 (EST)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Francesca :~)
Subject: Re: Who's sari now???
Message:
Hey Francesca, see the thread below with sari jokes. We're having a Latvian 'Who's sari now' evening at my place on Sunday to enjoy this revisionist video. Wanna come? (e-mail me). Also any other bay exes?
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 03:10:17 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Francesca :~)
Subject: ICult does not show that video in India
Message:
If that video gets shown in India, South africa, Fiji, Mauritius or Malaysia where supposedly there are 100,000 Hindu premies, I bet they translate it ''creatively.''

Otherwise I can see the old bahens scratching their tilaks and wondering if they should stop wearing saris and wear stretch pants instead. Yeah right. I think they'd go to another guru instead especially when they found out that he eats meat. What a bunch of crap!

Glen Whitewash Whittaker and Boy George Blodwell, I'm ashamed of you especially since you were both kind to me once. Go wash your mouths out with soap. I'm sure you both think that the end justifies the means because you've got the ultimate truth and somehow need to make it palatable to westerners. Don't bother - unless you've got a stake in the new cynical televangelism scam

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 19:51:05 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Passages -- Insulting Cult Revisionist Spin
Message:
Absolutely bang-on critique Joe. Especially when you say:

Obviously, to the extent people felt 'betrayed' (and many people did) when Maharaji closed the ashrams, it was NOT because they wanted the ashrams, but they felt betrayed by Maharaji personally because he summarily dumped the ashram premies on the street with no explanation, after he had harrassed and threatened them into staying in the ashrams for years prior, demanding a life-long committment as a way to 'serve' him, and by denigrating relationships, marriage, children, education, family and careers. What those actions by Mahaharji did was make those 'betrayed' premies question whether Maharaji is somebody they would even want as their 'Master' in the first place, because he was obviously so unconcerned with the welfare or experience of his followers and because, based on his actions rather than on what he said, when he had exhorted us to devote and surrender ourselves to him and his 'grace.' They couldn't trust him anymore, and no longer believed he was worthy of being a 'Master.'

This was certainly my experience. Is it any wonder that m has always been the biggest obstacle to 'propogation'. When we look back this so-called master makes one enormous gaffe after another. If it were only limited to himself, his family and attendant fart-catchers that would be one thing, but unfortunately his poor advice and direction has literally messed up the lives of thousands of us sincere suckers.

Seems to me that the three hallmarks in the career of the not-so-divine Mr. M. are lack of any kind of personal responsibility; spin-doctoring revisionism; and greed: shameless, never-ending fund-raising for his latest propogation schemes even in the face of declining core and aspirant congregations, so that above all else he can live a life of lavish, extravagant luxury and adulation.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 19:49:06 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Duplicate post by error - pls disregard (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 18:07:50 (EST)
From: Jenny
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: There's those saris again
Message:
If I understand correctly these people are saying or implying the reason I left after 28 years was because I couldn't wear saris anymore (though I never wore a single one) or take it that the Indian rituals/religion were gone. I must be a slow learner, it took more than 20 years for the impact of getting rid of those floaty, silky creations to catch up with me. That was probably due to my confusion about the now non-existent rituals and religion, from misinterpreting the kissing of his feet not long ago. Geez....

From memory, the most prominent westerner to wear saris in the 70's was the woman who, after her marriage, became known as Durga Ji, you know, maharaji's wife. She started wearing them after the happy occasion. When she was our Durga she had the saris to prove it and modelled many of them on stage while speaking about our 'Father' or sitting there listening to him. I can't recall too many others decked out in such garb, except perhaps for her then sister-in-law a few times. Does anyone else see the humour in this?

Did males leave because they couldn't wear saris as well?

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 22:02:13 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Jenny
Subject: I am sorry about the sari thing
Message:
I brought one back for my soon to be ex-wife from India in 72. She was really uspset about me going off like that and the sari I brought back wasn't the kind of sorry that she needed to hear from me.

She never wore it even though she briefly became involved in the cult.

It ended up being a curtain for a while, and then dust rags, now it has become the reason for my exit and the demise of my early marriage.

Gives a whole new meaning to "Love means never having to say wear a sari"

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 19:23:04 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jenny
Subject: Forgot about Durga Ji
Message:
She did wear saris for awhile, and so did Claudia. Then, Durga Ji (isn't that the 'Goddess Destroyer' or something?) got rid of the saris and started wearing designer gowns.

But the saris were a big problem. They were the main reason Maharaji has failed to bring knowledge to the entire world, aside from Glen Whittaker making the absurd conjecture that he already has! Good grief, if you didn't personally know a premie, you wouldn't even know Maharaji exists. And as we know, there are hardly any premies, and less all the time.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 20:13:06 (EST)
From: Jenny
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Forgot about Durga Ji
Message:
According to literature, in sanskrit Durga means 'the Inaccessible'. In Hindi myth, she was one of the many forms of the goddess (Shakti), and wife of Siva. She did have a destroying role in killing a buffalo demon. Ye Gods, it was the stuff of fairy tales - a buffalo demon???

Maybe her role this age was to destroy the epidemic, and as you pointed out the big problem, sari wearing here in the west had become.

Having completed her mission, she could then shed the saris and don those designer gowns in glorious western fashion, truely showing that it wasn't about anything Indian. Confirmed by the likes of Glen and even M himself, that certainly successfully opened the flood gates to knowledge being spread over the entire world.

Yep, makes as much sense to me as the killing of that buffalo demon.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 16:32:12 (EST)
From: Lesley
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: The Triangle
Message:
Rawat used to talk a lot about the triangle, the master, the student, the knowledge.

The master is perfect, the knowledge is perfect, so that only leaves the student open to criticism.

And so it is quite natural for a premie to accept an explanation for why exes become exes that is critical of them.

The religious explanation: some premies were not really hip to the experience, they didn't understand the true nature of the master and the knowledge and approached the whole thing from an unenlightened religious attitude, becoming disaffected as Mr Rawat cleaned up extraneous distraction from the pure simple experience of Him and K. (No explanation forthcoming as yet as to why the foot kissing ritual is still in place, other than, well it is okay for us because we are enlightened, and really know who the Lord is!)

This explanation has been accepted quite happily by the majority of premies, as far as I can determine. I have heard it from people who are very involved in participating, and from those who just send their money, no questions asked.

Lotus Eater says: 'Been there, done that, got the badge. Don't tarnish my badge, it is insulting to all of us.'

Personally, I want to remember my past as accurately and faithfully as I can, even though 'the joke' is on us. My past, and the people whom I have shared it with, matter to me.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 14:27:58 (EST)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Cult Revisionism
Message:
Thanks, Joe. You are entirely correct in your refutation of EV's cockeyed version of cult history.

As a whole, premies were not into 'Hindu rituals' at all. If we had been, we would have been Hare Krishna devotees. They're the ones who wear robes and carry beads in a bag and sing to Hindu deity statues. One of the things that attracted many of us to the cult in the first place was, in fact, a general lack of rituals and regulations. To those of us who thought of ourselves as after pure unadulterated mystical experience rather than the comforts of religion, this was a good sign.

So we were reassured by the lack of 'Hinduness.' This was not another Hindu cult (there were plenty of Indian gurus hawking their robes and lineages at the time, remember); this was one-of-a-kind, a Master teaching Knowledge of God, no frills.

So Guru Maharaji's docu-drama appears to be, in part, an amateurish effort to explain all of us. Why, oh why, would the vast majority of those who elected to receive such a precious gift end up discarding it? Either the 'gift' was not only not precious, but even potentially harmful, or their would have to be another explanation...which this video helpfully provides.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 11:55:41 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: EV's death throttle? M's demise?
Message:
The following information comes to us (via an ex) from a senior US EV person:

As is well-known, EV's fundraising and income stream was severly impacted by the US terrorist attacks, after which numerous major donors lost their high-paying jobs or businesses, and others saw their incomes reduced drastically.

The world 'Winds of Change Tour' done by Aussie honcho - sorry, team member - Greg Nunn late last year was all about winding EV back to near-nothing, and gradually closing it down in some regions.

The move also involves getting rid of senior manager types and flattening the hierarchy, separating Maharaji from the organization,
and 'going back to the simple heart experience' (again).

However this move is also expected to seriously reduce incoming funds. Nevertheless it is seen as unavoidable given the criticisms of M and EV on the Internet, and the reasonably widespread animosity to the organisation within premie ranks.

In its 30-year history, the two-pronged attack on income (the EV wind-down and S11) is unprecedented for the organization and for M
personally.

M's leased $45 million Gulfstream G5 executive jet is the world's leading ultra-long range business jet. It contains the most
sophisticated technology available, a unique engine design and highly advanced communications capabilities, and unprecedented passenger
comfort. It can travel non-stop for 6,500 nautical miles at speeds up to Mach 0.885 - making it the world leader in executive jets.

Given that the G5 has astronomical monthly payments, and Amaroo has a debt of $US10 million, it is easy to see why conversations are being
had among senior premies and PAMs about which assets will have to be sold off. Current thinking is that Amaroo is likely to go before the
Gulfstream, as this would only inconvenience premies - whereas the loss of the Gulfstream would impact on Maharaji's own 24-carat, Royal
Doulton lifestyle.

Amaroo's running costs are just over $US500,000 annually, whereas the Gulfstream's are way over this.

In immediate terms, the largest problem facing Amaroo is the growing withdrawal of loans by wealthy premies - loans which have propped
Amaroo up since its inception. It is feared that the loan-withdrawals will become exponential - i.e. that the early withdrawers will panic
others, who will then withdraw their own funds, and so forth.

The Gulfstream is still in frequent use, so the betting is that it will stay. Amaroo, on the other hand, is almost a ghost town. All that's left are three paid staff, a skeleton crew of volunteers, outside contractors who have had to be brought in to fill the defectors' shoes, and a pile of old paperwork such as a drawer filled
with yellowing confidentiality agreements (mandatorily) signed by premie workers in recent years.

It's interesting to note that the 'Winds of Change' - i.e. wind-down - comes from a growing mood of disgruntlement among premies about the
organization M has set up - though, with impeccable cult logic, only a minority blame M for this. The disgruntlement, in turn, comes
largely from the revelations on www.ex-premie.org - which is becoming increasingly well-patronized by premies. So the effect of EPO has not only been to catalyse people leaving Maharaji. It has also caused a significant withdrawal of funds and labor by those who still call themselves premies.

So far as the official attitude to EPO goes, it is the view of EV PR, and Bonthous and Associates, that the Jagdeo revelations are
significantly the largest PR problem Maharaji and EV face - both outside and inside premiedom. The problem is seen as long-term.

The Jagdeo allegations are now accepted within the senior ranks of the organization as likely to be true. And it is clear to senior organizers and ordinary premies alike that M's role in failing to act, then covering up, is now fairly hard to deny. Officially Jagdeo has 'gone back to his village', though it's unknown if this is true. Jagdeo having now disappeared, instead of being called to account for his apparent misdeeds, is merely the latest evidence of a pattern which has disturbed many premies at all levels for a while now. Some senior organizers have known of the allegations for 20 years, though they have only been more widely known since EPO published them.

M has become sufficiently concerned by the slowly growing hostility to him to order that minders watch his children.

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 18:39:21 (EST)
From: Hey JM
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: This is an important BEST OF F..nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 05:11:12 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Yes! I hope the plane is next
Message:
You can't live the lifestyle M leads nor his family for that matter, without a steady stream of large amounts of cash.

I hope M was heavily invested in insurance stocks, particularily those that were short sold by good old Osama. Hell, all stocks are off, but perhaps, since Maharaji thinks himself so computer savy, he loaded his portfolio with lots of dot coms? I get the feeling this is more indicative of not only a fall in membership/donations and a soured economy but perhaps real problems with his 'investments?' Companies aren't paying dividends like they used to you know.

I can't tell you how tickled I am. And if there is one person on this Earth who has never had to budget and probably wouldn't know how to begin, it's him, his spoiled wife and worthless children.

I hope he goes bankrupt! I hope the finiancial stress makes him miserable. I hope he has to survive on Mad Dog wine for his daily alcohol fix and has to eat Spam out of a can for his sustenance.

And what's with the minders for his children, they ain't kids anymore! Maybe it isn't too late for them to make something of themselves. This might be the best thing that ever happened to them.

I will watch, wait and say a prayer.

Incrediable post Jim.

Fondly,
Tonette

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 23:57:46 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: In your dreams.
Message:
All very interesting Jim.Only thing that interests me is how you have assumed that the whole box and dice is a business activity.
Only when you understand that such considerations will always be secondary to us will you perceive where things are actually going.
Love doesnt have a budget ,a manager or a projected outcome.
Cheers
The Cat
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 07:43:39 (EST)
From: The Maharaji of Malibu's
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: control is demonstrated here by CW
Message:
'Only when you understand that such considerations will always be secondary to us will you perceive where things are actually going.
Love doesnt have a budget ,a manager or a projected outcome.
Cheers
The Cat'

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---
--
It is just that US mentality that the maharaji as a predator needs to maintain his business. Even if you yourself don't give money, you are serving the maharaji's needs by perpetuating this US mentality. Shame, shame, shame! Shame of fools!
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 00:24:50 (EST)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Are you david harper?
Message:
because if you are then you know my dad and some other membes of my family.

Why are you so secretive about everything? What are you hiding?

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 00:38:37 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Are you david harper?
Message:
No I'm not.Who is David Harper?I've met your Dad.Names dont mean that much in cyberspace.
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 12:01:41 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: kevjo@mindspring.com
To: CW
Subject: Cat, maybe you can help
Message:
Since you seem to know everyone in premieland, who is the blonde American woman in the 'Passages' video, and is Gary Girard in that video? I'm just dying to know.
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 05:11:24 (EST)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: you've met my Dad?
Message:
When was that exactly?
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 05:33:49 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: you've met my Dad?
Message:
Oh a while ago....
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 08:24:59 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: That was not a fair answer!
Message:
I'm sorry to interject here. But Cat, your answer to Abi about her father was beyond vague, it's evasive and cruel. You, Cat read and post here enough to know the issues surrounding Abi's rape, her father's manipulation by M and her unending search for some sort of resolution. You dangle a tidbit of information concerning any of the above, suggest that you have information and then don't tell the truth. What's that you know about love?
Listen, I don't pretend to understand you in the least. I would like to think the best I possibly can of you. However, help me out here.
Is this a game to you? Have you never loved a child? Why are you doing this? Were you molested in your childhood or something?
What exactly, is with you? Can you please illuminate me with perhaps, please, more than 50 words or so. You are obviously not stupid but at this point I think you are just plain cruel. Or perhaps a child rapist yourself.

Tonette

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 08:38:07 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: It was an honest one.
Message:
Jesus Tonette, that was some of the silliest stuff I've read here.
It was a simple answer to a simple question. Need I say last year at Amaroo?.There is not much more to it.It doesn't deserve 50 words.
I know youre intelligent too but you are beginning to sound like my grade school English teacher!.Relax a little. There are lots of interesting things I have observed. Emotional fingerpointing tops the list here.
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 14:29:38 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Who's Derek Harper?
Message:
Come on Cat, you know everything and you don't know who Derek Harper is?

Yeah, right.

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 15:53:56 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: David Harper was the Question?
Message:
David.David,David
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 20:00:03 (EST)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: who are you?
Message:
forgodsake!
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 02:13:05 (EST)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: who are you?
Message:
I woke up in a Soho bar,a policeman on his knees...
Man I was a dreadful sight.
He said 'Who are you ,who who are you?'

Dont fret. I was one of 5000 and someone introduced me to your Da

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 05:20:50 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Re: who are you?
Message:
Look there are all these sanctimonious twerps who carry on like pork chops when THEY read something into my staight statement. OK, I met your Dad.Now tellme why is that so unusual? I have friends who live up North. No big deal.
As for who am I , I'm nobody.I have wandered around these parts for 4 years. So what? My identity is very unimportant.
And I want to clarify one thing.I actually feel sorry for Derek.Me and him?Cheese and chalk.I reckon he probably wonders what the fuck is going on. Silly old Anth gets it in his head that I'm some-one and pushes it on the whole world.You know he used to think I was an English guy he once knew.
I would like to talk to you. And I will make the effort.Just be assured I mean you no harm no matter what my silly American 'friends' may think.
I just cant resist that old Pete Townshend line whenever some-one innocently asks me-
'Who are you?'
Such a great song ,such a powerful lyric.
It wont matter to you who I am until you know me. Then we might share a laugh and smile.
But at the moment you may as well be asking a Nigerian refugee from Lagos 'Who are you?' It will make no difference.
Anyway cheer up
It's summer.I hear Perth is hot with the Grevillia's in full flower
Have a drink on me.
Cheers the Cat
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 03:47:32 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: I just don't believe this!
Message:
What is wrong with you? If you are not going to answer her question then quit baiting her. I don't think Abi is enjoying this.

FA, I don't know about this. This appears to be getting crueler than I want to witness.

Cat, you may have attributes but they are pretty much cancelled out by this parry between you and Abi.

All about love, eh?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 04:36:55 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: I agree, Tonette. Bad CW!
Message:
You always ruin everything, CW, by adding something cold and cruel. Where's the love you tout? If you do not want to say who you are then just don't respond. That was a very unkind and childish thing to say to Abi. How old are you? 15? Nyah nyah na nyah nyah. Bad pussy. I will not change you litter box today. You can piss on your own shit and lick the mess out from between your own claws. And I'm saying that in the nicest possible way.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 04:30:15 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Tonette, CW is an architypal
Message:
bully and coward.

He's one of those people you hear about who walk by in the street as someone is getting beaten up or raped or someone who likes to put the boot when someone is blinded and down....oh yes and he is a follower and lover of prempal rowatt aka maharaji who puts salt in the wounds of the weary and the weak(not protector).
Sadly it seems that these days both go together as no premie is admonishing him here.

Jethro

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 05:24:48 (EST)
From: Catweasel
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Absolute frogshit Jethro
Message:
Stop being silly> As the man in the movie said
'What we have here is a failure to communicate'
Get of your high horse.At least until you can ride it well enough to get over the first fence!
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 05:38:52 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Catweasel
Subject: Like I've said to you before
Message:
you do wonders for the ex-premie cause.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 07:47:28 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Re: Like I've said to you before
Message:
Oh you silly, silly man. You are so used to running down railway tracks. Loosen your tethers . You are becoming corporate EPO. I've a good mind to get Sam and Lee to give you a good talking to.
Jethro you have become a robot.
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 22:20:13 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Hi Abi (OT)
Message:
Hi Abi,

How are you? I'm going to email you this week. I hope you're doing well.

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 17:14:19 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: Re: David Harper was the Question?
Message:
So Abi got the 'D' mixed up. BFD. Derek Harper is the name she asked meant.

So, my comment stands. Gutless wonder you are.

Cynthia J. Gracie
Vermont, USA

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 02:15:17 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: David Harper was the Question?
Message:
I remember you.You made Lemon look like a choir boy.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 14:57:42 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: So, you know me? Hmmmm...
Message:
What does that mean? You were at Deca? What color are my eyes, Cat?

And you did contradict yourself: first you said you don't even know who Derek Harper is, and you knew Abi was referring to Derek when she typed David.

I agree with the others here, you make mahaha look very bad by your presence here. And you do wonders for EPO and the exes here.

So insult and insult again. You're a bad person, who likes to live in your own defecation. Enjoy!

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 22:01:35 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: So, you know me? Hmmmm...
Message:
What does that mean? You were at Deca? What color are my eyes, Cat?

And you did contradict yourself: first you said you don't even know who Derek Harper is, and you knew Abi was referring to Derek when she typed David.

I agree with the others here, you make mahaha look very bad by your presence here. And you do wonders for EPO and the exes here.

So insult and insult again. You're a bad person, who likes to live in your own defecation. Enjoy!


---

No Cynthia , you contradict me. Inever said I dont know Derek or of him. I said I dont know a David . Get the facts straight.
Yes I have had the complete pleasure in the late 70's of watching you in action.
Your eye's? Wouldn't remember.
You believe what you like but I'm amused by your take on things.
You and your buddies have zip cred. Try it on with the Law Enforcement agencies. They consider you lot a bunch of raving loonies.

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 15:04:36 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: You don't comprehend well...
Message:
Derek--oops!, I mean Cat,so I won't perseverate about it...you recognized the mistake to mix it all up as usual.

If you read my post, which you included in yours above, you know that I know you are kidding no one here.

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 09:21:02 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: I plead guilty. I tend to be so righteous.
Message:
And I am way too serious on many things. But......
This issue of Maharaji and Abi's father, and her rape by one of Maharaji's instructors, is in and of itself an emotional issue. No getting around that I'm sorry to say.
Could you please tell Abi what conversation you had with her father. What you think of Abi's father? How's he doing? What was the weather was like that day you met him? Do you know any of her other family members?
And you are impossible to know and understand. You never told me the story I asked of you. In a soon to be archived thread. I have even lowered my request, I'm only asking 50 words this time not 150 plus.
And love, the whole issue around Maharaji, what he expounds and claims to teach, what we all had found at one time by associating with him, can you get any more emotional than that?
So, if you will give me the fingertips of our fingerpointing via our typing to each other, what other interesting things come to mind to you here, concerning the forum, in your experience of Knowledge and with your experiences with Maharaji?
And would you please help Abi out a little?
I'll tell you a story or an experience back. But only if you play fair.
And two more things, are you anyway near the fires in OZ and do you have any children?

Gently but not optimistic,
Awaiting your reply,
Tonette

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 00:20:38 (EST)
From: jamet
Email: None
To: CW
Subject: woohoo-go tell the maha that!!!
Message:
wow, cat--all these months of acid sarcasm and suddenly you show your panties in a gust of wind.

its about love? you gonna tell gulfstream that? the jet fuel suppliers? the airports when they dun for the hangar fees?

I'm falling down laughing. I really am! any inclination i might have ever reserved for you, on the outside chance that you had a brain, I nw have all the data i need in order to delete that reservation.

god, you're funny. you have the same urgent faith as a 5 year old in the tooth fairy and santa claus. you'll accept absolutely anything and everything the big people tell you!

hahahahahahaha....oh man.....hee hee hee hee...

hey--i tell you what , cat--let's put it to the test. if it's just about love and being together, let's have everybody stop giving money for a year and just send him their love. let's see how he takes that, shall we?

really! i mean it! if this is all about love and not money, well, then no money shouldnt have the slightest impact on it, should it?

and all the premies reading this can stop sending money for the next year and feel perfectly good about joining the experiement, with a clean conscience, knowing that it's only about love and their breath and how they feel towards the master, and money won't affect it at all.

why, how blind I've been! of course it will hold up to such a test beautifully!

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 03:26:48 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: jamet
Subject: Nice one, Janet. Well put. Great! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 00:40:55 (EST)
From: CW
Email: None
To: jamet
Subject: Re: woohoo-go tell the maha that!!!
Message:
With your track record ,I'm flattered.Blind as a badger arent you?
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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:16:45 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: What about the yacht?
Message:
I would have thought the yacht, being completely useless for propagation (Amaroo and the Gulfstream are only 95% useless for propagation), should be the first to be sold. Unless he's already sold it........

John.

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 15:10:33 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: What ABOUT THAT Yacht
Message:
Here's the link to the page on EPO which shows and describes all of maharaji's necessities.

http://www.ex-premie.org/pages/finance1.htm#it4
[ The Yacht ]

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 02:50:56 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Thanks Cynthia and JHB nt
Message:
xxxxxx
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 08:40:07 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Gosh that would be fun to find out
Message:
My time is so limited but can anyone look up the info on the yacht and see if we can tell? Is it still owned by SEVA Corp?
My take is the yacht is long gone. I haven't heard any fund raising cries to maintain it. Not like the continuous push for Amaroo and the plane.
Amaroo
Second Mortgage
Lower Line of Plane
Third Mortgage
Auction at Southerby's
Prop Engine
Premies suing for payments on their loans
Chapter 13
Children Have to get Jobs
Repossesion of His Malibu Property

There's been many a good businessman who's lost everything. I would speculate there's been far more many cons who have lost everything.

Final chapter, Maharji applies for a job with an airline. Is denied, can't pass the drug test.

I wait, and wonder and hope against all hope that he will not take any innocents into ruin with him. I truly worry about those folks still duped. This could get ugly.

And John, you won't leave anytime soon will you? This is your calling, a true public service.

Love, Tonette

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 10:12:36 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: I'm not leaving
Message:
I looked up the yacht and it's still owned by Premo Marine Inc.

I'm not going anywhere. It's kind of fun looking after EPO.

John.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 15:56:52 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Good Riddance.
Message:
Hi Jim,

This confirms what we've had a handle on for a while.

It shows what a paranoid little world they live in, and how inflated with their own importance they are, that they think the children need bodyguards. Although the cult have long been obsessed with security, so I guess it doesn't come as a surprise. In the past though, the security has been to protect the children, their mom and dad from premies, who were always seen as the biggest threat. What are they frightened of? They really are nuts.

We have to thank Abi and Susan their bravery and courage, against all sorts of opposition, for speaking out against Jagdeo's crimes, and standing up against the wrath this stirred up in the cult.

I wonder if Randy Prouty and Judy Osbourne's memories have been jogged yet. And I wonder how they feel about their part in the shoddy, cowardly coverup that has been going on to protect their master and his paedophile pal.

Anth, think I'll pop a bottle of Stella.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 22:02:14 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Minders
Message:
Too bad Abi didn't have a bodyguard available to her.
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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 18:41:56 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Good Riddance.
Message:
It's very intereating. We hear confirmation again and again that the Jagdeo issue is the single most damaging thing in the Miragey edifice, and that Rawat's failure to deal with this has contributed to many becoming disillusioned and leaving the cult.
When I approached Deepak Bhandari(Premie in charge of India) about this, I was already an exiting premie, but I still wanted to believe the best about my ex-master and especially about my premie friends. I spoke to him on the phone and he told me how he had challenged Jagdeo with the accusations, how Jagdeo had totally denied them and cried, and that later Jagdeo had come to him and said that he could no longer stay in the ashram with these accusations hanging over his head and had left.
I told Deepak that I had serious concerns about young girls on the housekeeping staff in the Dehli ashram but he hasn't responded to this
Since then, Jagdeo has left the ashram, been swept under the carpet, or so they think. It amazes me, that they don't realise that unless they deal with this issue properly, it will continue to destroy their empty edifice. It is bad enough that it happened, but to continue to deny it and especially to deny Captain Rawat's part in the cover up, is despicable, and this is what gets through, eventually to decent human beings. And the buck stops right here, at the feet of the Master!

Hey Anth, thanx for recent message of support, just ran out of Stella,
but cheers anyway!

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:13:14 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Jagdeo and Maharaji...
Message:
Hi Anth,

I have always known that this issue of the pedophile Jagdeo was something that would haunt Maharaj and EV. Good. They all are shameless.

I'm glad to hear that it's been damaging to them. Unfortunately, the victims were re-victimized, but that's so typical of Maharaji. I think he lives in a box that's filled with mirrors--all he can see, think of, or care about is himself.

Shame on all of them, from Maharaji on down, including Prouty, Osbourne, and Valerio for assisting in covering up these crimes against the children of the parents who were/are devotees.

Because of all this shit, I not only consider Maharji not a god-in-a-bod, but below human.

Cowards, all, and I don't care that they are in a cult. This is serious child abuse and I just cannot accept what these individuals have done to Abi and Susan, as well as the other victims have been so afraid to tell their stories.

I posted an article above about the Vatican's new pedophile policies. It's so cultish. Yuck!

Secrets and lies abound. Hand me the bard bag, please. Christ!

Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 14:51:04 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: His children threatened???
Message:
What 'growing hostility' toward Maharaji would cause him to have 'minders' (bodyguards?) watch his kids?

I know people are leaving his cult in fairly large numbers, probably larger than we have seen since the 80s, but have actual threats been driected at Maharaji? I would think his feeling would be more one of abandonment, and concern about his luxurious lifestyle, than fear for his, or his family's, safety.

Can the person who wrote the above comment?

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 13:04:26 (EST)
From: salsa
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Why? Where this number comes from?
Message:
Amaroo's running costs are just over $US500,000 annually, whereas the Gulfstream's are way over this.

Can u tell me please?

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 16:11:04 (EST)
From: Moll of Mole
Email: mollofmole@loveable.com
To: salsa
Subject: Re: Why? Where this number comes from?
Message:
'B' said it goes something like this, 10 staff X 15 thousand US = 150,000. Interest on 10 mill at 2% is 200,000. Which leaves 150,000 for rates, insurance, leases, legal fees, maintenance on the 6 toilet blocks, 2 halls, residence for his guruness, 10 cabins for the hangers on, 2 office blocks, 1 restaurant, 1 swimming pool ( for his guruness) 1 tennis court (same) 1 large hole in the ground where his guruness speaks, 1 gate house, 1 caretakers house and assorted workshops. I town centre area with cabins and huts for food and shade areas, 4 klms of road and 10 of unsealed road, water storage and treatment system, sewerage treatment system, underground power and 2000 acres of scrubby old Australian bush.
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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 19:19:41 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: salsa
Subject: I'll try to find out
Message:
Silvia,

Weren't the numbers simply pulled out of EV's annual financial report?

-- just kidding.

I'll inquire.

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 05:19:44 (EST)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: I'll try to find out
Message:
I read your post quickly in my way out -late- but for what you say all you posted come from the rascals? As I said, I read it fast but I wasn't sure if that was real. So is it a joke?

Yeap, I'm slow and tired.... ahhahaha

What a lie! I hope it catches up with him soon, for the good of many, including the father of my son who is still a premie, and who believes maharaji is the living Lord/God.

thanks Jim())

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 12:40:30 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: What a great post
Message:
Hi Jim,

Wow! i knew EPO had impact but WOW! that is something else. Yes, time is on our side. The premies had deaf ears for such a long time because of the inconceivability of M doing wrong. But now the din of the EPO is finally being heard and better, digested. This is really good news. The cult glasses are coming off and the cult earplugs are coming out.

it's a new day! Thanks for the good news.

deborah

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 21:08:22 (EST)
From: Anandaji
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Security concerns
Message:
When I was in Miami in December, I was surprised that everyone entering the program had to go through a metal detector. I thought it was perhaps because of the 9-11 hysteria.

The security check slowdown caused a problem, as people were lined up for about 2 city blocks inching toward the entrance. Suddenly, as the start time neared and it was obvious many were not going to get in on time, someone apparently decided to abandon the security check and just wave everyone in.

I hadn't been to a program in years, but has this tight of security
occurred previously?

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 03:42:41 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: 1st metal detector was 96 or 97
Message:
at Santyogashram (Delhi). Can't remember exactly the date, 96 or 97. The machine was a bit funky, but worked. You had to go through it before entering the darshan tent complex. I'm sure Kelly remembers, she was there too.
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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 21:16:27 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: Think it is very recent
Message:
I haven't been to a program in over ten years. But we got reports of this from the recent small gatherings. None of this is helping Maha at all. Someone mentioned the EPO in a question directed to Maha at one program and the security sprung up at the following program. Coincidence, maybe.

Question: Someone asked Maha if he meditated. He apparently told Maha he read somewhere on the EPO that he didn't.

Anyhow, you have a remarkably similar to another poster. When did you start posting here?

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 21:26:59 (EST)
From: Anandaji
Email: None
To: Deborah
Subject: Re: Think it is very recent
Message:
I only began posting on New Year's Eve, having stumbled upon EPO following the December program.

Someone else mentioned another person with a similar handle, but that wasn't me.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 10:48:02 (EST)
From: Mirror
Email: mirror@universalmail.com
To: All
Subject: The Teacher Trap
Message:
The Teacher Trap

Being right is important to most of us humans. We want to be right because we ARE right and the other is wrong! In some cases, as we mature, it becomes a little different. We begin to understand everyone is right from their own perception. Once that understanding comes, we can easily allow the other to have their own view without interference from us.

As understanding comes, we begin sharing with others what we've learned in various areas. Not many of us miss this wonderful opportunity to become a teacher. The problem arises when we begin to think of ourself only as the teacher. We begin to know it all.
We cannot teach another without being the student ourself. It is impossible.
It is also possible to not truly understand this mechanism, therefore not reaping the benefits of our own teaching.

The ego tightens its grip as the self proclaimed teacher explains why they are doing what they do, to prove they are the Sage of the Sages thinking they know it all. They actually think they are doing the world a favor. They do not recognize that this is merely a stage in the game of life, because they began to believe their own Buddhahood to be the only One. They forgot at some point... or maybe never learned... they are always the student too... in every case.

With this stage we feel so divine, so blissful, so right, so comfortable, that it must be who we are. Many students may come. All are welcome. We discuss openly the miracles we've given and received, our profundity, our gifts, our divineness, to attract more students, or to merely impress upon others how wonderful we truly are.

This particular stage can be *catching* to the unaware student that comes to us. We are so caught up in our own magnificence, we bring others with us. They begin to believe as we do they are enlightened but are no more enlightened than their teacher. They are merely caught up in another's processing. The more empathic students feel it the worst, and it can be difficult for them.

If another person can cut through this armor the teacher has built for himself -- if the teacher is truly open-minded -- he will move on to the next stage. If not, he can stay in this stage for years and years. In this *high* wonderful place. It is an out-of-control state. It can be manic, hyper, charismatic to seekers and frustrating to those who have already been there. Frustrating because of the armor we can't break.

If the armor does get broken, we go on to the next stage. Killing our own Buddha, we become human again. Honoring ourselves. This can be a long process because of our own, or another's, brainwashing. It could be devastating, realizing we are not who we thought we were. Accepting our
ordinariness can feel boring and 'just not right' as we get used to not being extraordinary, unlimited, and divine. It is perfectly normal at this stage to go back and forth for a while, until you come to accept yourself as a human, rather than divine.

We begin speaking our truth - not the Divine Truth, but our truth. We begin seeing where our heads are in the clouds in other areas of our life. We begin talking and sharing, as teachers and students alike, as we were meant to, instead of only teaching. We begin honoring others, without persistence, knowing they know who they are. We begin truly talking like a human being, instead of the divine being we thought we were.

We accept what is, as is. We begin to embrace our own perception, regardless of how screwed up it may be, instead of the light divine, and know that within us lies the perfect knowing and that our fellow travelers will help us along. We will know who can help us and who can't. We begin knowing what is right for us. We begin embracing if what we see, hear, or say, doesn't feel right to us, it isn't right for us, and honor others the same right. We begin embracing that which does feel right for us. We begin honoring ourselves and truly honoring others for the first time in our lives. Not for who we want them to be, but for who they are. We begin truly loving ourselves.
With this stage, we begin to understand the true meaning of the heart center.
Where we reside. And with this understanding, the tears will flow.

Some of us get stuck, but there is always hope as long as there is compassion.

Mirror

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 14:59:54 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Mirror
Subject: Re: The Teacher Trap
Message:
Well said, Mirror. All the time that I was a premie I thought that I had some sort of special knowledge that others did not have and that I was meant to teach it to others. This isolated me from the human race.

Now that I am out of the cult and see that K is not a secret, I am seeing that I was deluded. Most human beings are fine just the way they are and I really don't have anything special to teach them.

And Rev Rawat certainly has nothing of any value to teach anyone at all. The sort of stuff he says can be found on Hallmark cards and he certainly does not practice what he preaches.

No, there is no need for a master and never has been especially one who tells you ''never to doubt the purity of the master'' or to not trust the ''doubtmaker.'' I learned a lot from premies in satsang and that's the only way I want to learn - democratically.

Thanks for you thoughts.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 11:55:38 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Mirror
Subject: At the feet of the master
Message:
I'd disagree with the phrase, 'for the first time in our lives'. I had a pretty good sense of honouring myself and others when I was a teenager. The eleven years I spent as a premie did not enhance that feeling, especially towards the end of it when Maharaji was yelling at everyone in his obscene way and I denied my own life and feelings and tried to follow his ayga above all other things and other people.

I'd say Maharaji was a very bad teacher. If anything, he stifles people's potential and natural feeling. He prevents people from blossoming.

It's been many years since I listened to anything Maharaji had to say. I am a much better person for it, more loving, more understanding and more human than I ever was as a premie.

I was fine when I came to Maharaji. I just wanted to get this ''Knowledge of God'' that was being given. What came afterwards was an extremely damaging process where I was continually confused and mentally tortured in ever increasing amounts by attempting to follow Maharaji's directions. After eleven years I was exhausted, burnt out, an emotional wreck with no close relationships, no prospects and suffering from chronic fatigue syndrome.

Yes, Maharaji is a very, very bad teacher.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 16:39:07 (EST)
From: PatD
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: At the feet of the master
Message:
Yeah right Dave. The 1st requirement in a teacher is that he knows his subject. The 2nd that he can put it across , & the 3rd, liking his pupils, is really neither here nor there except on humanitarian grounds.

Rawat managed to get them in the wrong order & doesn't really like the premies to boot.

He's good at the 2nd, but when you consider that the 1st requires mastery of life lived without the 'temptations of the flesh'(that's pronounced in a Father Ted accent)then you have to conclude that he's talking through his arse.

Here comes a citizen : let's light him up & piss him out.(from old comic book)

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 06:17:13 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Buying into lila
Message:
I was wondering today, just what it was that inticed me to accept all the inconsistencies and illogical requirements of Maharaji and elan vital.

It occurred to me that it was one, basic underlying, fundamental belief. The belief that Maharaji was lord incarnate and this time around he was doing whatever needed to be done to take us across the big ocean of maya. This time around, he wasn't going to be poor but jump right in and live like a king, actually higher than a king, because nothing ever seems to be quite good enough for him if he didn't invent or direct the manufacture of whatever material thing is his current object of desire.

So for me, that's why I kept accepting everything he did, every little speck. No one knew what the lord was going to do in this age of darkness nor how he was going to do it.

We were just so 'fortunate' to have the 'eyes' to see it all, unlike the unfortunate of this world.
Whatever he did was just his play, and because of his exalted lordly position, we were in no position to question it.

I honestly feel that's what keeps pwk's hooked today. They may not all acknowledge his lord rank, but they look upon his actions as absolute. When the crack into that belief system happens, the whole dam starts cracking. So for him to tell pwk's to be very careful these days, is just another ploy into keeping his rank and the premies in file. Guarding the experience of knowledge is one thing, but blindly accepting Maharaji's actions is something that defies any rational intellect. I suppose that's what all the 'listen with your heart' instruction was all about. Only the heart can understand a perfect master......on and on and on.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:32:21 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: karen@ringrose.org.uk
To: Vicki
Subject: Re: Buying into lila, the fundamental fallacy.
Message:
yes, absolutely, that's the fundamental fallacy, and the only thread that connects them, poor suckers, to the 'Sauce of Life'
Sorry, I'm still tittering, I think I just coined that phrase!??

But, seriously,I agree, that is what kept me in there for so long, suppressing doubts and serious breaches of good taste!. Only the fundamental belief that he was the 'lord of the universe' or ,at the very least, 'the messiah' the 'modern day Jesus' ' or...as time passed the 'satguru' or 'perfect master of our time' All of this fed and fuelled by him. 'This is not the first time, this message has been presented' 'I am not the first' etc etc thereby fuelling the fantasy that really he is Krishna, Jesus, all the avatars before him, who were all saying the same thing and giving the same knowledge. And,yes, this is what first captivated (interesting word) me and held me captive for so many years afterwards.
After all, what else could hold me?...Me, a free spirit, a child of the 60s, a day tripper and seeker of the truth. I travelled overland to India to find a guru, and I found the most perfect master of all time. I have come with greater power etc etc'
The thing is..I really truly believed the words they were all singing and I joined in..'The Lord of the Universe has come to us this day'..I joined in, I tried to tell the world...Mostly, they were not interested! but I carried on, I was a sincere seeker, and I wanted desperately to be a good devotee! I realised that it was inevitable that most people were so immersed in ignorance and illusion 'maya' that they would be resistant to this 'good news' and that it would be a long heroic haul...but that to quote the words of the 'Master' 'there is no nobler enterprise'
For years, I fell for this fundamental fallacy, but yes Vicki, this is what kept me captive and what continues to keep some of my friends captive. They sort of deny it when challeged...No, I don't think he's God...sort of thing, but I know, they pray to him..stuff like that...I did, for God's sake. It's a deep habit and hard to break. The worst and total addiction.
BTW thanks for your recent message of support and info, i was offline for a long time and couldn't respond.
Kelly

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:40:05 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Hey, Kelly, how are the trees?
Message:
I've met some people, who have this idea that a lot of what we need can come from sustainable forests. I'm sceptical, but as I like trees I'm open to the idea.

John.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:56:28 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Hey, Kelly, how are the trees?
Message:
Hey jayaychbee, I'll call you JHB for short OK? will you just cool it with tha trees. I told you I like to hug them now and then, but that was between you and me. Let's face it, you and me shared a hug or two!
but I don't go on about it do I? Personally, I think most of my needs can be satisfied by trees, the root of my problem is...Why are you yawning? I was just about to branch out...Oh No...
Let's just leaf it for now
Kelly
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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 18:07:53 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Re: Hey, Kelly, how are the trees?
Message:
Hey, I've just twigged what you're talking about! Before I logged on, I was barking up the wrong tree. Since I became an ex, and got rid of the dead wood, I feel I've grown new shoots and blossomed, and I can feel the sap rising.......... (Ed. enough of this - it's leading nowhere)

John.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 19:22:12 (EST)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Timberrrrrrr! nt
Message:
I just got felled
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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 08:02:12 (EST)
From: Mirror
Email: mirror@universalmail.com
To: Vicki
Subject: Re: Buying into lila
Message:
Thank you Vicki, your points ring very true.
It seems all clear and simple once you're out of it, but just like 'getting ready for knowledge' was a process, getting ready to 'un-knowledge' is also a process. All will be 'ready' to see the truth of what has happened to them in their own time.
Mirror
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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 14:46:45 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Mirror
Subject: ''But we can never understand the Master''
Message:
Before I exited I found out about the yacht from the forum on which I was lurking and told the premies.

The responses ranged all the way from ''But he deserves the best'' to ''He's teaching us that material things are fun'' etc.

In fact come to think of it the modern PWKs are still using all the same old excuses about his greed as we did right from the start 30 years ago.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:07:47 (EST)
From: yeah_right_210
Email: yeah_right_210@yahoo.com
To: PatC
Subject: Re: ''But we can never understand the Master''
Message:
You must be psychic. I have heard that here. I brought up the $25,000,000 residence
---
which from my years in building/real estate, I would call an accurate estimate of the value of the property
---
and one would have thought that I was suggesting rawat live in a shack. No, I don't think he should live in a shack, but I don't think anyone should live in a shack. Neither do I think that anyone should live in a $25,000,000 house. That is ostentatious beyond belief. And most especially, I do not think anyone should live in that kind of house who is living parasitically off others
---
especially others whom one has lied to and deceived, they way he has his devotees. That is unforgivable and despicable. But, the greed-guru is a thoroughly despicable creature.
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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:10:39 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: yeah_right_210
Subject: Nail on head, Mr 210! :) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 23:58:11 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: All
Subject: Saris and Hindu ritual made you leave M?
Message:
Just tell me how many exes left DLM/EV or Captain Rawat behind because saris were compulsory or because of Hindu ritual?
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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 21:30:33 (EST)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: me!!!!!!!!!!
Message:
As I have said many times....but for those who have not heard the story....

It was in Philadelphia in 1978/9? My final drip....

The program ended. I was sitting with the people who were wanna bee security people I was a wanna be PAM too.

Oh, but then it wasn't over, as a final encore out came a shirtless Mr. Rawat needing a 40DD and adorned in flowers and I think MC Hammer pants ( maybe MC was a premie). He did his 'wobble dance' as Abi so aptly described it. My mind started screaming ' you are in a cult'

Then the premie next to me told me she just had an orgasm ( she used to be one of the LOrd's cooks) . People were writhing and crying and flinging thieir arms in the air...crying with ectasy.

It was my final drip....I saw the emporer had no clothes. I looked around and saw a cult.

A week of agonizing later or so I called my mom to come get me from the Miami ashram. Moved out I think without explanation.

Scary time.

But yes, a hindu ritual was my final drip..!

Surely Valerio and Jean Marie and Charnanand all forced him to wear that get up.

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 21:35:37 (EST)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: also
Message:
I ironed my share of Saris and dhotis in my time and dammit those things are hard to iron. That used to be my service at some point. I burned one of Prakash Bai's sari's. She was really nice about it. What did they expect from a 13 year old who had never ironed anything in her life!
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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 17:32:37 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Sore about Saris?
Message:
Gee there's on limit to this cult will stoop. Funny thing, most premies are over 40 and will know this is bunk. The more they try the worse they get.

Maha, give it up! The gig's over.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 10:25:10 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: The premies trying to be something they were not!
Message:
The premies, great people who I thought had something that I did not have. Long skirts were in style. Long hair on the guys. Wonderful music. Interesting conversations and a twist on how to view reality, so tempting in my adolescence. Emphasis on love and life.
Slick initiators, a jet set realized Guru, (didn't everyone need one), extemely loving group of people, however simplistic. But, there was always for me something a little off.
When I finally grew up a little and got my head out of the clouds, and began to see all the hypocrisy. That was the start of the slow drip that, by this time, after becoming embedded in the cult, that allowed me to finally walk away. Mind you, there was always a question. 'What if I walked away from the truth?' What if?
The hypocrisy was blatent to me. Parents not able to afford a doctor or dentist, decent food for their children because of all the funds spent on the 'festivals' that M had. Hell, I'd be tempted too if I could rake in $250,000 or more per event.
Initiators telling outright married premies that 'if they didn't have any children' they should divorce so they could truly practice knowledge.
Lots of divorced people.
Lots of divorced couples with young children.
Premie women idolizing Marolyn, to the point they wanted to be just like her. Flashy, pregnant, and stupid. No matter what situation they were in.
I could go on and on.
Maharaji has and had a real ability in that he's great on exploiting the young.
I had no idea until I came to EPO however the power and damage a cult can inflict on a person. There is no formula as to who will fall prey to it's clutches. Intelligence nor character are not defining factors.
Go figure.

Fondly,
Tonette

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 04:00:00 (EST)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Saris and Hindu ritual made you leave M?
Message:
Don't know what a Saris is. Actually can't remember why I left anymore, but I do want to say congragulation for winning your last case, you should feel proud. As for the youknowwhos, they are irrelivent compared to the work that you do,

be good,

Salam the ex-+)

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 00:22:49 (EST)
From: Boadicea
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Not this little Black Duck!!!(nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 01:20:23 (EST)
From: Cynthai
Email: None
To: Boadicea
Subject: Oh Yeah, I always wore Saris...
Message:
...in downtown Hartford, Conn. USA, where I worked my ass off in the insurance capital of the world.

Saris? I think not. I can't even remember many hindu words, especially the ones to arti.

Good luck, I guess.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 01:59:15 (EST)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Cynthai
Subject: twas a painful sight
Message:
I could only look quizically at the sisters in saris.
perhaps there is no awfuller sight than a very white,clumsy, western woman in a sari who is trying to emulate some sort of adulation.

the worst part is that they just dont have the grace and natural poise that it takes.

but then I wore fetching patchwork skirts and button down blouse with me Lord of the Universe button to entice the Salvation Army suited brothers.

Z
I was bitchin lemme tell you.

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 00:44:45 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: but did u have earth shoes????
Message:
baby , all the long skirts, patchwork and long tied hair didn't mean nothin if you didn't wear earth shoes!
why, they were the only shoes in the world that could set you LOWER than everyone else around you.
call it one-upsmanship by one-downsmanship.

proving you were just a humble servant, get it?

a sari? that's what the bai's from india wore!
and mata ji of course.
and durgji after she married him.

and none of THEM ever owned a pair of earth shoes.

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 15:16:37 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: but did u have earth shoes????
Message:
Hi Janet,

I most certainly wore earth shoes. No saris but definitely long skirts.

Rheka (sp) always wore saris and she was in the Hartford, Ct community for a while.

Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 02:19:29 (EST)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: errr .. I still wear earth shoes
Message:
but in those days they were second hand.

but oft I would set the ensemble off by a high school blazer in an effort to be service -like. I really didnt like them ashram sisters gettin to uppity.

It was a treat when I was swollen with child.

this clothes discussion has exposed some very deep scars..

Z
))))))))

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 12:57:51 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: How many of you spoke with a Hindu/English accent?
Message:
When I arrived in the m scene that phase was about over, but I do remember some brothers, especially, who would try to speak like the Indian Mahatmas.

It was hilarious!

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 13:14:15 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: We did it as a joke.
Message:
We sometimes made fun of the Mahatamas and their accents. We even made up a mythical Mahatma (Mahatma Offanon), who would give various funny directions.

What's so ludicrous about all this, is that the vast majority of people who are now ex-premies HATED a lot of the ritualistic stuff. I for one, was happy when we got western initiators, and M getting married didn't phase me in the least. I didn't like the rest of the holy family and was happy to remove their pictures from the altars.

It is kind of funny that 12 years after M was supposedly getting rid of 'hindu' rituals, he was dancing around in a Krishna outfit on stage, giving darshan, and engaging in Holi Festivals. What a joke.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 14:19:09 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: We did it as a joke.
Message:
I thought is was a joke, wasn't sure.

I was also very happy while in the cult when we go western initiators.

Those Indian mahatmas terrified me, and now knowing what I know, that fear was well justified.

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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 18:27:46 (EST)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: they did it
Message:
and I coiled and hissed inside when some ashram sister would put on that southafricanirish hindi tilt on the ends of the sentences and emphasise the pronouns or some wierd thing.
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Date: Tues, Jan 08, 2002 at 18:27:43 (EST)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: they did it
Message:
and I coiled and hissed inside when some ashram sister would put on that southafricanirish hindi tilt on the ends of the sentences and emphasise the pronouns or some wierd thing.
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