Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Jan 06, 2002 To: Jan 13, 2002 Page: 2 of: 5


Vicki -:- Maharaji's vocabulary -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 10:33:31 (EST)

Sir Dave -:- New post on the Great Worldwide Linkup -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 09:49:57 (EST)
__ JHB -:- Re: Helen Fisher -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 14:25:08 (EST)
__ __ AJW -:- Re: Helen Fisher -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 14:47:24 (EST)

The Maharaji of Malibu -:- can no longer have public events -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 06:01:36 (EST)
__ Big Surprise -:- Completely Inaccurate -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 16:48:36 (EST)
__ __ Marianne -:- Events in US were not public -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 20:58:07 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Get real -- North America? -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 19:34:16 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- Breaking the spell -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 19:19:05 (EST)
__ __ __ New-Age Redneck -:- SUPERB, Jim... absolutely SUPERB -:- Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 12:28:38 (EST)
__ __ Will -:- Back at ya, BS -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 17:19:00 (EST)
__ __ __ New-Age Redneck -:- Re: Back at ya, BS -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 17:27:44 (EST)
__ __ New-Age Redneck -:- Re: Completely Inaccurate -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 17:17:49 (EST)

Death the lover -:- There ain't no love.. -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 04:26:55 (EST)
__ William Shakespeare -:- My love is as a fever -:- Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 12:39:07 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Death the Leveller -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 05:06:29 (EST)
__ __ Carl -:- I like that poem very much. Thanks, Pat. /nt -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 16:06:53 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Let me not to the marriage of true minds -:- Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 03:58:19 (EST)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Love lies bleeding -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 10:09:10 (EST)
__ __ __ Sulla -:- Re: Too much love -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 10:56:03 (EST)

Jim -:- A dangerous trend? -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 21:54:06 (EST)
__ New-Age Redneck -:- Jim, it's.... -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 15:32:43 (EST)
__ __ Hoc Tui -:- Or... -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 16:12:33 (EST)
__ __ __ janet -:- spittoon's over there -:- Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 01:21:15 (EST)
__ __ __ New-Age Redneck -:- BWAH HA HA HA HA -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 16:44:07 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Hoc Tui -:- Glad to be of service... -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 16:53:46 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ janet -:- want a blind date? -:- Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 01:25:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ New-Age Redneck -:- STOP.... STOP.... :-) -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 17:00:42 (EST)
__ Livia Dowte -:- doubt -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 03:52:38 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- Leave no room for doubt in your mind -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 04:29:30 (EST)
__ __ __ livia domte -:- Re: Leave no room for doubt in your mind -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 11:23:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ New-Age Redneck -:- Re: Leave no room for doubt in your mind -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 16:59:17 (EST)
__ __ __ Mirror -:- Doubtmaker -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 06:16:34 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Chris -:- Re: Doubtmaker -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 14:08:43 (EST)
__ McDuck -:- It's a new category -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 22:09:26 (EST)
__ __ Z -:- Appalling!! Dust off the legal team -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 23:10:12 (EST)
__ __ __ McDuck -:- Z, slow arvo at Ocean Shores? nt -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 23:27:57 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Z -:- slow arvo at Ocean Shores? EH?? nt [nt] -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 00:31:58 (EST)

A little sing along -:- Old Maharaji Had a Cult, -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:17:26 (EST)
__ new verse -:- And in this cult he had some PAM's -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:19:13 (EST)
__ __ next verse -:- Re: And in this cult he had some APOLOGIST's -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:20:32 (EST)
__ __ __ Another verse -:- Re: And in this cult, he had some ChurchLadies -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:22:11 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Sulla -:- Re: And in this cult he has some freaks -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 07:42:22 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ jonathan -:- with an ashram here and an... -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 10:53:06 (EST)

Joe -:- Lights of the World -- SO COOL (OT) -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 15:03:28 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Hey, you can see our hut. -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 18:02:08 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- You live in a HUT?? -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 18:09:29 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- More like a luxury garden shed. -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 18:29:08 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Boadicea -:- Re:I Love Rain on a Cold Tin Roof -:- Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 19:56:34 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Sounds Idyllic... -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 01:30:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- You're welcome Joe. -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 14:23:31 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Pullaver -:- Re: More like a luxury garden shed. -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 23:18:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- He lives in a delapitated shed -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:58:32 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Peg -:- with ears pricking up -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:44:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Yes and No Peg. -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 14:33:45 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Peg -:- Yes that oilboat! -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 16:36:09 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Re: Yes that oilboat! -:- Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 04:48:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Peg -:- Ta Anth. Love to. [nt] -:- Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 05:16:46 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Watch out, peg -:- Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 14:04:39 (EST)
__ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Lights of the World -- SO COOL (OT) -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 16:22:02 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- No, it's the space station -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 17:00:14 (EST)
__ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: No, it's the space station -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 20:14:37 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Not empt y -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 01:29:20 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Time exposure -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 21:02:18 (EST)
__ Joe -:- Ignore Please -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 15:04:28 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Re: Sorry, here is link (another try) -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 15:05:24 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Beautiful, Joe, I'll pass it on... [nt] -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:12:13 (EST)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Riga is bright, but my house isn't -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 18:33:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Mickey the Pharisee -:- You can see the Canal! -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 23:36:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ p -:- Re: You can see the Canal! -:- Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 04:09:48 (EST)
__ __ __ janet -:- well i guess this proves, -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 17:32:48 (EST)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Africa: the Dark Continent -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:29:36 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Oh, no -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 18:06:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ New-Age Redneck -:- Re: Oh, no (ot) -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 18:45:41 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ janet -:- Re: not that way, joe-- -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:09:49 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Mirror -:- All the money I could have -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 04:19:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- there's still time and money left to! -:- Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 01:47:27 (EST)
__ __ __ Peg -:- Thanks Joe! enjoyed by all the family. [nt] -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 17:31:36 (EST)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- Well, I'm gald you finally got it right -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 15:29:17 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Re: Well, I'm gald you finally got it right -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 16:51:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Sulla -:- Re: Amazing and beautiful -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 08:07:18 (EST)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Thanks, Joe. Terrific. [nt] -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 15:17:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Zelda -:- Wow. Monitors w/ EPO! [nt] -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 18:42:56 (EST)

Joe -:- To Linda Pascotto -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 12:53:08 (EST)
__ Pullaver -:- Letter to Linda Pascotto -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 15:24:39 (EST)
__ __ Joe -:- Re: Letter to Linda Pascotto -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 16:56:46 (EST)

Anandaji -:- Recentexes Forum -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 12:49:59 (EST)
__ wolfie -:- your new way of practising.. -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 07:50:17 (EST)
__ __ Anandaji -:- Re: your new way of practising.. -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 13:04:46 (EST)
__ PatC -:- Re: Recentexes Forum -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 13:42:42 (EST)
__ __ Francesca :~) -:- Some people post on both, Pat! -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 17:15:51 (EST)

Falala -:- There is only one master -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 10:44:19 (EST)
__ I don't know what the FA is -:- but I've just got to have it ! [nt] -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 03:53:27 (EST)
__ Brian S -:- What the Fa***k is this all about [nt] -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 02:15:48 (EST)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Protection from these alien thoughts -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 14:52:55 (EST)
__ __ Sulla -:- If -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 08:42:03 (EST)
__ __ Pullaver -:- AFDB -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 15:48:23 (EST)
__ __ Marianne -:- eDrek, give me a ring -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 15:05:27 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Roger, I think she wants you to propose. -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 18:24:54 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Yes, Anth, I thought the same thing -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 21:03:45 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- Aluminum beanies and mercury fillings...... -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 15:01:47 (EST)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- PatC: supremely funny, thanks for the laugh (nt) -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 17:25:26 (EST)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Pleased to be of service, Rog. :C) [nt] -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:33:08 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Sounds like the One True Lord. -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 14:24:41 (EST)
__ Jim -:- I love it! -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 11:53:48 (EST)
__ JHB -:- Sweet FA -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 11:52:30 (EST)
__ __ PatC -:- Do Re Mi Fa-rectumification. [nt] -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 13:50:01 (EST)
__ __ __ Pullaver -:- Fe-Fa-Fo-Fum, I smell the blood of -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 15:16:07 (EST)
__ __ __ Falala -:- Photos -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 14:04:10 (EST)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- whole life expo -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:01:59 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Sulla -:- Re: Not yet please! -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 08:58:42 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- The guy with the triangle strapped onto his head -:- Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 02:35:15 (EST)

Nigel -:- The Three Wise Monkeys.. -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 05:22:21 (EST)
__ Joy -:- Flippin Brilliant, Nigel -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 20:40:22 (EST)
__ Peg -:- Re: The Three Wise Monkeys.. -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 06:22:52 (EST)

yeah_right_210 -:- breath fetish -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 17:49:08 (EST)
__ Deputy Dog -:- Breath fetish? John 4:24 [nt] -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 23:32:34 (EST)
__ Peter Howie -:- Re: breath fetish -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 20:13:16 (EST)
__ Tonette -:- Throughly enjoyed your post. -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 10:52:40 (EST)
__ Sir Dave -:- Re: breath fetish -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 21:26:24 (EST)
__ Deborah -:- Love this post -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 18:28:08 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- You've got it, yeah_right_210... -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 18:06:26 (EST)
__ __ yeah_right_210 -:- Re: You've got it, yeah_right_210... -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 18:11:51 (EST)
__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- If M doesn't read this forum I'll bet that -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 04:27:18 (EST)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- I like your style... -:- Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 22:45:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ yeah_right_210 -:- Re: I like your style... -:- Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 18:47:38 (EST)


Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 10:33:31 (EST)
From: Vicki
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Maharaji's vocabulary
Message:
Okay, many have witnessed M's little temper hiss fits, I was never so fortunate. I honestly would like to know exactly what kind of words he would blare at the Mahatma's, Decca workers, Amaroo, etc.

It may seem a ridulous request but all I ever heard was Maharaji on stage. I'd sure like to
know how the behind the scenes M really talks.

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 09:49:57 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: All
Subject: New post on the Great Worldwide Linkup
Message:
and it's mine. My old friend, Helen Fisher and her son, Sol have been in my thoughts recently and I'd love to know how they're doing. Of course, Helen may have a different surname now, if she's married. Click on the above link to see the messages on the Great Worldwide Linkup.
[ Great Worldwide Linkup ]
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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 14:25:08 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: Helen Fisher
Message:
Dave,

Wasn't she in Brighton Ashram in 1974?

John.

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 14:47:24 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Helen Fisher
Message:
Hi John,

Helen was in London around 73/74 as part of the Education Ashram, which later became the UK Unity School very briefly.

I think she was around London in the 80s too, after she became a mum, but I haven't seen or heard of her since then.

I hope she's doing OK.

Anth, 'Meeeeemories...'

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 06:01:36 (EST)
From: The Maharaji of Malibu
Email: None
To: All
Subject: can no longer have public events
Message:
There haven't been public events in the last few years. My guess is that as the evidence against him has mounted, he fears being openly challenged in a truly public event. One comment or question could be extremely challenging for the one who is but isn't the superior power in person. The one who out of his pure love allowed and sometimes still does clandestinely allow those who worship him to kiss his feet.

....and speaking of foot kissing. Has anyone thought they might have gotten gum disease from getting to be the 1,207th person to kiss his foot one day. Talk about 'sloppy seconds' Gross!

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 16:48:36 (EST)
From: Big Surprise
Email: None
To: The Maharaji of Malibu
Subject: Completely Inaccurate
Message:
He had public events this last year in Europe and South America. He had others scheduled in India and Africa that were wisely cancelled due to terrorism. He also had an open mic in 7 US cities very recently. True, your friend Mr. Mandrake found himself physically and mentally unable to ask his BIG QUESTION in San Diego, as I'm sure he knew at the time that it would've been merely an embarrasing fart in an otherwise lovely atmosphere. I'd imagine all he was able to hear was his own question pounding in his brain and failed to notice what was going on with everyone else in that room.

The 'evidence' you speak of is a pile of gossipy, refried bollocks that seems especially silly when you're actually in Maharaji's presence. Something altogether different is unmistakeably in evidence when he's there and you can see where he actually is coming from.

Sorry, MOM, you can't believe everything you hear. I'd gently suggest that making life-altering decisions based on gossip on an Internet bulletin board is dicey, at best, regarding anything of importance.

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 20:58:07 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Big Surprise
Subject: Events in US were not public
Message:
If the events of 2001 were open to the entire public, it wouldn't be necessary to produce a 'smartcard' showing membership in Elan Vital in order to gain entrance.
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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 19:34:16 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Big Surprise
Subject: Get real -- North America?
Message:
When's the last time Maharaji did a public program in North America? How many years has it been? Is one planned? Think there will ever be one again? Why not? Hell, he lives here, doesn't he? If he was really interested in 'propagation' don't you think he might do one once in awhile?

What 'public event' are you taking about in Europe last year?

Those 'open mike' events were by 'invitation only' with cult-honchos screening people. The paranoid security measures rule out the word 'public' in those events, so what is your point?

I firmly believe Maharaji is afraid to do public programs in North America or Europe. Probably Australia as well. I doubt we will ever see one again.

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 19:19:05 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Big Surprise
Subject: Breaking the spell
Message:
He had public events this last year in Europe and South America. He had others scheduled in India and Africa that were wisely cancelled due to terrorism. He also had an open mic in 7 US cities very recently. True, your friend Mr. Mandrake found himself physically and mentally unable to ask his BIG QUESTION in San Diego, as I'm sure he knew at the time that it would've been merely an embarrasing fart in an otherwise lovely atmosphere. I'd imagine all he was able to hear was his own question pounding in his brain and failed to notice what was going on with everyone else in that room.

The 'evidence' you speak of is a pile of gossipy, refried bollocks that seems especially silly when you're actually in Maharaji's presence. Something altogether different is unmistakeably in evidence when he's there and you can see where he actually is coming from.

Sorry, MOM, you can't believe everything you hear. I'd gently suggest that making life-altering decisions based on gossip on an Internet bulletin board is dicey, at best, regarding anything of importance.


---

You're damn right that it's not easy confronting a cult leader in his own element at a cult meeting. However, the reason it's hard is not at all what you think.

In the late 80's I spoke out against Raja Ji at a plane fundraiser at a hotel near the L.A. airport. I was already several years out of the cult and had no intention of ever going back. As I sat listening to Raja Ji I felt nothing but boredom and disdain for his inability to say anything clearly. I knew then, as I know now, that it was all a bad joke. Even so, when I wrestled with the idea of saying something, I was a little trepidatious. Clearly, I'd be throwing a wet towel over the warm, cultic 'love' vibe in the room, if you can call it that. I'd be inviting all sorts of attention and possible ridicule. What if I made a fool of myself? They say that public speaking is the single most frightening thing people endure overall and I was no exception. It was scary.

But when Raja Ji blew off this guy in the front row who was trying to humbly ask what was happening with devotion and all that -- sure he'd give money to the plane but what about his supposed life-long relationship with his Lord? -- I got angry. 'Screw this,' I thought at which time I rose up in the very last row in the hall and shouted out:

Hey, that's not right! I gave eight years of my life to your brother in his ashram and somethings deserve answers.

(or something like that)

Anyway, my point is this. It took me a few moments, not long, to find my voice, as they say, but when I did there was no looking back. That was 'Jim Heller' speaking then. I recognized the voice and -- guess what? -- I liked it. It was me. The mind I live with all the time anyway only now, for the first time in the more than 15 years I'd known Maharaji then, I was not pretending to hide it in the cult environment. Indeed, friend, truth be know, I felt GREAT!

Anyway, as I've mentioned many times here, a dialogue ensued and there can be no doubt about it, I kicked Raja Ji's ass in that one. When Raja Ji asked me if I was happy in the ashram I responded, quite rightly, by pointing out how irrelevant a question that was. I'd joined the ashram on the premise that his brother was God, nothing less. Happiness? Hell, I could have been happy by nature. Or not? Who can say? The issue was what was the truth? That was the question.

Raja Ji was stymied. He didn't know what to say so, quite stupidly in fact, he brought up the Bertollucci move that had recently come out then, 'The Last Emperor'. Had I seen it?

Yeah, I said, I had. What's your point?

He then started talking about how he and Maharaji (he might have said 'his brothers') were raised like that, to think that they'd never have to work a day in their lives. I asked him what that had to do with anything and again he was stuck. It didn't have ANYTHING to do with what we were talking about. He was making a fool of himself.

This dialogue continued for perhaps three minutes, maybe more. It ended with me inviting him over to my place to discuss this further and a bunch of people there laughing and yelling out that they'd like to come to. But Raja Ji was pulling the plug on the session so that was it. I demurred any further comments, clearly the winner. No doubt about it.

When I approached him at the stage a few minutes later, as everyone was getting ready to leave, I mentioned that I was a lawyer. At that time, given how Maharaji and the ashram had ruined many of our career aspirations, demographically-speaking that was a slight step up on many a premie. (It's not such a big deal now but it kind of was then). Raja Ji immediately took notice and gave me a whole big shot of extra on-the-spot respect. He agreed to meet me the next day at my office from which we retired downstairs to the Red Robin for a drink. It was there that he admitted to me that Maharaji stonewalled him, too, whenever he tried to ask him what the hell was going on. If there was ever any uncertainty in my mind about leaving the cult, it evaporated right there and then.

My point is that, once someone breaks the spell, the feeling is amazing. I felt so god-damned PROUD of myself as I spoke out for truth and reason, fairness and accountability at the program. I felt like I'd gotten just a bit of the self-respect I'd abandoned so long ago as I entered into the realm of weird hindu esoterics and Maharaji's self-esteem breaking environment.

You laugh at Mandrake's struggle to speak out but at least he was trying. That makes him a MUCH stronger person than you, oh yes it does. And if you should ever have the pleasure of speaking your mind for once and for all to Maharaji, you, too, will know of which I speak. Until then, continue to sneer. What else can you do?

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Date: Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 12:28:38 (EST)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: SUPERB, Jim... absolutely SUPERB
Message:
Jim, very well said, indeed!
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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 17:19:00 (EST)
From: Will
Email: None
To: Big Surprise
Subject: Back at ya, BS
Message:
Hey BS,

Nice initials.

You seem fairly well informed, but you seem to be saying that the information gathered on this website is nothing but 'gossip.' Really? To take one example, the Jagdeo problem, certainly the testimony of Abi and Susan cannot be considered 'gossip.'

Have you studied the issues raised by the 14 objections? Can you refute any single one of them? If you can, please do so. Be our guest!

Perhaps MoM should have noted that he was speaking of North America. It's very revealing of the times, is it not, that Rawat no longer holds public programs in the US like he used to. And even when only his most loyal students are invited to an event, they are required to go through metal detectors.

I'm wondering. Do you foresee anything different in 2002? Perhaps Rawat will announce a public event in a big US city. Will there be metal detectors there? Might there be a few shouts of 'fraud, fraud,' from the audience? Or maybe in the midst of Rawat describing how misquided human beings are, for the upteenth time, perhaps some heckler will shout: 'guru, go home.' That would ruin the moment, wouldn't it?!

If you are really informed and if you have a good grasp of the situation, then you realize as well as most exes that Rawat is now fearful of the animosity toward him, to the extent that he now considers protection for his children. His programs in the US are no longer announced on the Internet, but only announced secretly among the devotees. The metal detectors are not for the 'innocent' public, but for the exes, the students who are no longer so loyal, whose numbers keep growing and growing.

This situation is not a matter of gossip or speculation. It is a fact that we all can easily see. As for your statement that when you are in Rawat's presence, there is something 'unmistakeably in evidence' that allows a person to know where Rawat is 'coming from,' that kind of statement is not a fact, but a vague and silly claim. Do not forget that all exes have been there, many times. And when Rawat is drunk or stoned or requesting sexual favors or yelling obscenities, the divine presence is a little hard to detect.

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 17:27:44 (EST)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: Will
Subject: Re: Back at ya, BS
Message:
Will: '....And even when only his most loyal students are invited to an event, they are required to go through metal detectors.....'

I thought that 'not a leaf moved' without the master's notice. Why then does it take a metal detector to find a weapon? Jeez, a weapon is ever so much more dense than a 'leaf,' no? Can't he 'melt' it or turn it into flowers or something? Certainly, if he can't do THAT, then he should at least know it's in the room and tell his hand-picked jackboots where it is, right? I thought he could 'look right through you.' If he can look through my ...ahem... dense body, then he should be able to use his soooper-special gooroo x-ray vision to see if I have a weapon, right? :-)

P.S. I'm enjoying your posts, ALOT!

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 17:17:49 (EST)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: Big Surprise
Subject: Re: Completely Inaccurate
Message:
Big: '....The 'evidence' you speak of is a pile of gossipy, refried bollocks that seems especially silly when you're actually in Maharaji's presence....'

Yeah, especially when you THINK/BELIEVE you are in the 'presence' of greatness. Just ask him, he'll tell you he's the 'greatest'..... wait a minute, wasn't there some guy named Ali that said that? I guess that means that because I'm 'awed' by the random Gamma bursts that release almost immeasurable energy throughout the universe on a daily basis..... It just MUST be gawd.... right? It certainly is GREAT (in just about every measure).

Dude, get a clue..... you 'feel' his presence because you THINK YOU SHOULD feel his presence. NOT because he has any more 'presence' than YOU! In fact, due to the fact that you actually try to communicate with me.... I'd say you are an order of magnitude higher on the 'presence' scale than the BIG-WEENIE himself.

Do you remember the story of the pick-pocket and the saint? It was ALL WRONG. The pick-pocket was actually viewing REALITY.... a POCKET, not a saint. I view M as a little insignificant speck that holds way too much sway over the minds and hearts of otherwise good people..... and guess what? THAT is 'it,' EXACTLY!

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 04:26:55 (EST)
From: Death the lover
Email: None
To: All
Subject: There ain't no love..
Message:
like the deep black love of the Master
there is no love at all but the deep black love of the Master
there does not exist anything at all
except the DEEP BLACK LOVE of the Master....
3000 micrograms of DEEP BLACK LOVE...
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Date: Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 12:39:07 (EST)
From: William Shakespeare
Email: None
To: Death the lover
Subject: My love is as a fever
Message:
The unrequited love of the narrator is compared to a devastating fever. Reason, 'the physician,' is ignored and cannot abate the disease. Without reason, madness (fever) reigns; and the poet renounces his beloved as 'black as hell, as dark as night.'

MY love is as a fever, longing still

For that which longer nurseth the disease;

Feeding on that which doth preserve the ill,

The uncertain sickly appetite to please.

My reason, the physician to my love,

Angry that his prescriptions are not kept,

Hath left me, and I desperate now approve

Desire is death, which physic did except.

Past cure I am, now Reason is past care,

And frantic-mad with evermore unrest;

My thoughts and my discourse as madmen's are,

At random from the truth vainly express'd;

For I have sworn thee fair, and thought thee bright,

Who art as black as hell, as dark as night.

Posted by JohnT
- never a premie

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 05:06:29 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Death the lover
Subject: Death the Leveller
Message:
Death the Leveller

James Shirley. 1596–1666

THE glories of our blood and state
Are shadows, not substantial things;
There is no armour against fate;
Death lays his icy hand on kings:
Sceptre and crown
Must tumble down,
And in the dust be equal made
With the poor crooked scythe and spade.

Some men with swords may reap the field,
And plant fresh laurels where they kill;
But their strong nerves at last must yield—
They tame but one another still:
Early or late
They stoop to fate,
And must give up their murmuring breath
When they, pale captives, creep to death.

The garlands wither on your brow:
Then boast no more your mighty deeds;
Upon Death's purple altar now
See where the victor-victim bleeds.
Your heads must come
To the cold tomb:
Only the actions of the just
Smell sweet, and blossom in their dust.

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 16:06:53 (EST)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: I like that poem very much. Thanks, Pat. /nt
Message:
yowza
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Date: Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 03:58:19 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Message:
Another hoary old favorite of mine that I can still recite after learning it 40 years ago:

William Shakespeare. 1564–1616

162. Sonnets
xviii

LET me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O, no! it is an ever-fixèd mark,
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wand'ring bark,
Whose worth 's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come;
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom:—
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.

Notice how the whole poem flows smoothly until the following passage where the difficulty of pronoucing the alliteration of so many esses s-low-s you down and makes you read it s-omberly and s-eriou-s-ly.

''Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come...''

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 10:09:10 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Love lies bleeding
Message:
Click on the above link.
[ Love lies bleeding ]
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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 10:56:03 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: Too much love
Message:
That poem was so beautiful. And the music.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 21:54:06 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: A dangerous trend?
Message:
For some time now, I've noticed a disturbing trend on ELK. Is it even dangerous? Who can say? But I know that *I* don't like it. Frankly, it bothers me a lot.

When ELK first started it impressed me with its succinct and clever categories. People could post 'Expressions', they could tell about their 'Days' (with Knowledge) or they could even talk about their 'Lives' if you could imagine that. It was lovely. By just clicking an entry, in the appropriate category, one could learn all about someone's life, day or just what they felt like saying a bit. An Expression, in other words.

Now look:

Here's the latest 'Days' entry --

Corinne Schlegel:
Days
From Spokane, Washington State, USA

I am truly not alone.

Now come on people! That's an Expression, isn't it? Am I going mad or something? I THINK NOT! It's an Expression! It's not a DAY, it's certainly not a LIFE ... so what is this?

I'm the first one to say 'Don't Sweat the Small Stuff' but is this really the kind of thing any of us can let go without a fight?

As Sincere as Always,

Jim

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 15:32:43 (EST)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, it's....
Message:
the last gasp of a dying mind. Yes, the thought is almost gone..... there it goes..... Ahhhh, I'm at perfect peace.... I'm catatonic.... ahhhhh.
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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 16:12:33 (EST)
From: Hoc Tui
Email: None
To: New-Age Redneck
Subject: Or...
Message:
Spiritual ADD...
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Date: Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 01:21:15 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Hoc Tui
Subject: spittoon's over there
Message:
here's a handkerchief, tissue's in the bathroom. please don't leave your bodily fluids deposited at random where they can infect others, hoc tui.
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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 16:44:07 (EST)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: Hoc Tui
Subject: BWAH HA HA HA HA
Message:
I LOVE.... REALLY LOVE your chosen name! BWAH HA HA HA HA.

Just what the doctor ordered. I had my eyes examined today (including the dread 'dilation') and I needed a laugh. All that eyeball smashing doesn't appear to have done any real harm.... thank gawd!

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 16:53:46 (EST)
From: Hoc Tui
Email: None
To: New-Age Redneck
Subject: Glad to be of service...
Message:
I didn't study Latin all those years for nuttin'.

I guess now your eyes know what a cervix feels like during birth. ~)

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Date: Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 01:25:19 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Hoc Tui
Subject: want a blind date?
Message:
there's a desperate homeless female around here who calls herself Lung Candy. She claims she's the spittin' image of her mother.
or maybe you're related to Ren Hoeuck, of cartoon fame?
you must be a phlegmie.
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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 17:00:42 (EST)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: Hoc Tui
Subject: STOP.... STOP.... :-)
Message:
BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA .....
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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 03:52:38 (EST)
From: Livia Dowte
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: doubt
Message:
I was thinking about the old commandment 'never leave room for doubt in your mind' and the ramifications of absorbing this deep into one's psyche, especially at a young and impressionable age. (This must have been discussed endlessly before but I'm new here.) I wonder if this is one of the reasons premies are so afraid to question. I know for myself this has been a powerful factor in being unable to shake off for 30 years the idea that Maharaji and Knowledge are 'it'. Why should doubt have been so worrying to Maharaji that he issued a commandment against it? Surely if the experience spoke for itself, doubts would fade naturally? So why prohibit them? So, effectively, when quite reasonable doubts would come up, I would habitually banish them, thereby entering a postion where all sorts of contradictions would sit uncomfortably in your head and you could live with them, because you had agreed to leave no room for doubt. Jewel smuggling in India in '72...hmmmm..oh dear, never leave room for doubt. And countless other disquieting thoughts....hmmmm..oh dear, never leave room for doubt. Any thoughts on this?
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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 04:29:30 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: Livia Dowte
Subject: Leave no room for doubt in your mind
Message:
I remember that commandent being: ''Leave no room for doubt in your mind.''

Which is the first puzzle really because, in the religion of Maharajism, the whole of the mind is bad and therefore filled with doubt. The mind in fact has recently been declared by papal bull er gurual bull to henceforth be known as ''The Doubtmaker.''

I used to wonder what exactly it was that we were meant NOT to doubt? The breath? You mean the breath may one day turn on me and strangle me or pretend to have hiccups in embarassing situations?

Well Rev Rawat came to the rescue last year when he declared that we ''should never doubt the purity of the master.'' That's all we ever meant us NOT to doubt. It's fine to doubt your own intellect and intelligence. It's fine to doubt your own instincts and intuition. It's fine to doubt your family and friends but never doubt the purity of the master. Is that clear?

Now we should probably define the Maharajist definition of ''purity.'' For instance it's perfectly pure to lie like when you run over someone in your car and then split and let one of your servants take the rap.

Anyway, welcome, Livia, from Pat Conlon in San Francisco

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 11:23:28 (EST)
From: livia domte
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: Leave no room for doubt in your mind
Message:
Thanks for your welcome, Pat, from Livia from the West of England. OK. Another thought. Does anyone think that only people of a certain mindset would ignore possible doubts and succumb to the process of receiving Knowledge back in the early 70's or even now?

I remember in my own attempts at 'propogation' I could almost predict what sort of people would be open. The ones who would definitely NOT be open would be extrememly strong-minded, un-neurotic types - people who seemed relatively sure of themselves and of their place in the world. Of course I would put their 'closedness' down to them being 'in their minds' or too full of ego.

What occurs to me with all this lurking on the site I've been doing and thinking about all of this very deeply, is this: does anyone think that there are particular mindsets that are potentially more drawn to a figure like Maharaji? Like having a bad relationship with one's father, giving one a need for an idealised father-figure? Or having a need for a replacement authority figure of some sort? I know in my case something in my psyche seemed to give me a need for 'absolutes' - possibly because my own father never encouraged healthy debate, only the acceptance of absolutes. So I went out in the world rejecting his absolute values but subconsciously needing to replace them with new absolute values! And hey! A mere 3 years after leaving home, I come across Maharaji with a whole new set of absolutes to absorb. And absorb them I did, ignoring all doubts because of that little phrase...

A propensity to guilt could be another factor, and I certainly had a lot of that back then....a premie friend and I used to have a little chant: 'Guilt and fear, guilt and fear!' before setting out for satang..

So, a subconscious need to replace an authoritarian father figure, a tendency to suffer guilt, what else? Oh yes! A fear of death, a second wave of which often hits you quite hard in your early 20's....I'd certainly just had a dose of that. Of course, there were positive motivations too - idealism, a wish to see the world become a better place, intense curiousity, a sense of longing for something indefinable....but what I'm really interested in at the moment is this: does anyone think that a lot of the ' die-hards' (and believe me, I was one) were attracted in the first place/hung on in there because of fault-lines already in their psyche's from childhood?

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 16:59:17 (EST)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: livia domte
Subject: Re: Leave no room for doubt in your mind
Message:
Livia, isn't your quote, '...The ones who would definitely NOT be open would be extrememly strong-minded, un-neurotic types - people who seemed relatively sure of themselves and of their place in the world.....' a definition of the Buddha? Hey...... maybe WE were the world's bozos and 'everybody else' was the Buddha..... oh man, did 'I' screw up or what? My dad was the damned Buddha and I didn't even notice...... Crap, now I have to do it all over again.... (But I actually LOVE rollercoasters, Mr Speaker) :-)
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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 06:16:34 (EST)
From: Mirror
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Doubtmaker
Message:
Wasn't there a video tape called 'the doubtmaker'?

Anyway...
whenever we ignore or even exclude a part of our life, be it thoughts, doubts, feelings, instincts... we start living in a split reality. Very painful. Very unreal.

Mirror

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 14:08:43 (EST)
From: Chris
Email: None
To: Mirror
Subject: Re: Doubtmaker
Message:
Hi livia, thanks for posting, an welcome. Your comments sparked a lot of similar questions for myself.

Never leave room for doubt in your mind: one of the strongest, most deeply seated, binding fear for all pwk's - a real disease in premiedom. I would parallel it to another cult programming indoctrination technique: instilling fear in the group members to ever question, test, examine, doubt their group's belief.

Why should something that's supposed to be absolute be backed by such paranoia, as if logic and reasoning would diminish it's omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence?

No one ever thinks this through. If a questioning thought is ever raised, then the thing to do would be to approach it like a logical debate - put it to the test. If the thought is erroneous and holds no water, then it can be exposed. But cult members (pwk's) never do this. Instead, they fear it, suppress it, mind-block it out (another indoctrination technique) and cling fearfully to the group's understanding in defensive protection from it's 'believed/perceived' threat or harm.

I would compare exes to the van of travellers to the Wyoming site in Close Encounters of the Third Kind, where they're all wearing gas-masks because they were told the air is contaminated in that area. But one-by-one they decide not to buy it any more and pull off their masks.

Also while I'm here (excuse my breach of thread thought), but PatC said yesterday under the Atlanta video thread regarding the idolization phenomena, 'Nothing that he can do is inappropriate. He is a Hindu and that religion is all about bliss not morals. He is a bhakti-guru which is all about love not goodness.'

Good one, PatC - you've got him!! This is cearly another program concept from the land where ‘concepts run like rivers' (as MJ coined it). The idea that nothing he can do is inappropriate - says who? - high time to examine that one!

MJ prides himself on being the master who is fighting the concept war. Well, hey MJ, here's one concept you're sorely caught in yourself.... Gotcha, Mr. Speaker.

Chris, I'll be my own concept warrior, thank you very much

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 22:09:26 (EST)
From: McDuck
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It's a new category
Message:
called A Moment.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 23:10:12 (EST)
From: Z
Email: None
To: McDuck
Subject: Appalling!! Dust off the legal team
Message:
this will be no mild skirmish. It may take all the funds in the coffers ..
Z
ealous
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 23:27:57 (EST)
From: McDuck
Email: None
To: Z
Subject: Z, slow arvo at Ocean Shores? nt
Message:
xx
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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 00:31:58 (EST)
From: Z
Email: None
To: McDuck
Subject: slow arvo at Ocean Shores? EH?? nt [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:17:26 (EST)
From: A little sing along
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Old Maharaji Had a Cult,
Message:
ee-aye-ee-aye-oh!

And in this cult he had some PREMIE's, ee-aye-ee-aye-oh!
With a MIND-MIND here, and a MIND-MIND there
Here a MIND
There a MIND
Everywhere a MIND-MIND
Old Maharaji had a Cult, ee-aye-ee-aye-oh!

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:19:13 (EST)
From: new verse
Email: None
To: A little sing along
Subject: And in this cult he had some PAM's
Message:
ee-aye-ee-aye-oh!

With a YES-YES here, and a YES-YES there
Here a YES
There a YES
Everywhere a YES-YES

MIND-MIND here, and a MIND-MIND there
Here a MIND
There a MIND
Everywhere a MIND-MIND
Old Maharaji had a Cult, ee-aye-ee-aye-oh!

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:20:32 (EST)
From: next verse
Email: None
To: new verse
Subject: Re: And in this cult he had some APOLOGIST's
Message:
ee-aye-ee-aye-oh!

With a HATE-HATE here, and a HATE-HATE there
Here a HATE
There a HATE
Everywhere a HATE-HATE

YES-YES here, and a YES-YES there
Here a YES
There a YES
Everywhere a YES-YES,

MIND-MIND here, and a MIND-MIND there,
Here a MIND
There a MIND
Everywhere a MIND-MIND,
Old Maharaji had a Cult, ee-aye-ee-aye-oh!

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:22:11 (EST)
From: Another verse
Email: None
To: next verse
Subject: Re: And in this cult, he had some ChurchLadies
Message:
ee-aye-ee-aye-oh!

With a GIMME-GIMME here and a GIMME-GIMME there
Here a GIMME
There a GIMME
Everywhere a GIMME-GIMME

HATE-HATE here, and a HATE-HATE there
Here a HATE
There a HATE
Everywhere a HATE-HATE

YES-YES here, and a YES-YES there
Here a YES
There a YES
Everywhere a YES-YES,

MIND-MIND here, and a MIND-MIND there,
Here a MIND
There a MIND
Everywhere a MIND-MIND,
Old Maharaji had a Cult, ee-aye-ee-aye-oh!

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 07:42:22 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: Another verse
Subject: Re: And in this cult he has some freaks
Message:
ee-aye-ee-aye-oh!

With a DOUBT-DOUBT here, and a DOUBT-DOUBT there
Here a DOUBT
There a DOUBT
Everywhere a DOUBT-DOUBT

With a GIMME-GIMME here and a GIMME-GIMME there
Here a GIMME
There a GIMME
Everywhere a GIMME-GIMME

HATE-HATE here, and a HATE-HATE there
Here a HATE
There a HATE
Everywhere a HATE-HATE

YES-YES here, and a YES-YES there
Here a YES
There a YES
Everywhere a YES-YES,

MIND-MIND here, and a MIND-MIND there,
Here a MIND
There a MIND
Everywhere a MIND-MIND,
Old Maharaji had a Cult, ee-aye-ee-aye-oh!

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 10:53:06 (EST)
From: jonathan
Email: None
To: Sulla
Subject: with an ashram here and an...
Message:
ashram there.
Here an ashram there ashram everywhere a 'shram
Old Maharaji had a cult
eey ay eey ay ooohhh!
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 15:03:28 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Lights of the World -- SO COOL (OT)
Message:
Hey, this is pretty cool. The image is a panoramic view of the world from NASA's new space station.

Why is the Nile lit up? Puerto Rico looks like one big light bulb! Note the Australian outback, Central Africa and the Amazon -- dark zones.

Note the lights are OUT in Afghanistan. You can see the Trans-Siberian Rail Route.

Wow, note the striking difference between North and South Korea, and between Israel and the rest of the Middle East countries.

What a piece of photography!
[ Page Link ]

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 18:02:08 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Hey, you can see our hut.
Message:
Hi Joe,

Incredible picture. YOu can see our hut in the bottom left of Britain. We left the lights on.

Anth, all roads lead to Skegness

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 18:09:29 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: You live in a HUT??
Message:
Are there Hobbits with you there? Do you let your cow mow the roof for you? Are you in Cornwall?

I went one year to college at Exeter when I was a mere child, frightened by the snobby classism at Exeter. Not quite Cornwall, but Devonish. My Midwestern US naivete having been bruised, I took trains to London and smoked hash with the hippies. I guess that was more my crowd. :)

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 18:29:08 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: More like a luxury garden shed.
Message:
Hi Joe,

It's small, made of wood with a metal roof. The front is all glass. We look right over the sea, same direction as you. We've got electricity, phone, tv internet, double glazing. Lots of wildlife around, including deer, falcons, kestrels, seals, and extremely tasty seabass.

Anth going blissfully feral.

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Date: Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 19:56:34 (EST)
From: Boadicea
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re:I Love Rain on a Cold Tin Roof
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 01:30:27 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Sounds Idyllic...
Message:
The next Latvian event should be there; perhaps a camping trip.
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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 14:23:31 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: You're welcome Joe.
Message:
Joe,

You're welcome any time. We'll find you a place to hunker down between the hoes and spades, and ply you with the freshest seabass you'll ever eat.

Sincerely, Anth.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 23:18:37 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: More like a luxury garden shed.
Message:
People who live in glass garden sheds shouldn't throw babies.

I guess with a metal roof you can count the raindrops to fall asleep.

Seriously, it sounds idyllic, does yer computer face the sea?

Pullaver trying to imagine it all.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:58:32 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: He lives in a delapitated shed
Message:
It's at the top of a hill, with a long road to reach it. Other exes live on the lower parts of the hill, and pay Anth to haul firewood up to the shed. Then they stand back in awe as he regales them with tales of the Life of Anth.

Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:44:26 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: with ears pricking up
Message:
Do you live in one of the Whitsand Bay Chalets?
Are you effectively deprogramming the Millbrook premies?

peg

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 14:33:45 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Yes and No Peg.
Message:
Hi Peg,

Yes to the Whitsand Bay chalet. No to trying to deprogramme the Millbrook premies.

The Millbrook premies are a breath of fresh air and I like them a lot. Some of them are very old and dear friends, and I value their friendship immensely. We have a sort of unwritten agreement not to discuss the Captain and his cult. It works well. Several of them are exes anyway, but in the village, everyone seems to get on fine.

When the Jagdeo mess blew up a couple of years ago, they let me know, in no uncertain terms, that they supported my efforts to bring the creep to justice.

Do you know any of the folk down here Peg? They're quite a wild bunch.

Anth who watched the 'Willy' towed away tonight.

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 16:36:09 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Yes that oilboat!
Message:
That sounds very healthy your setup with the premies. I would like to be in that position in my community, where they know where I am at, but so far I am being quite shy.

In Millbrook I know Jill and Judy...the others only by gossip. Used to visit a lot in the eighties...Very beautiful place to live looking out to sea like that.


Peg

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Date: Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 04:48:39 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: anthginn@yahoo.com
To: Peg
Subject: Re: Yes that oilboat!
Message:
Hi Peg,

Your old pals were up here feasting on fresh seabass before Christmas. They are in good shape.

If you're in the area, get in touch and come down the cliffs for a cream tea.

Anth the Tide Timetable.

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Date: Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 05:16:46 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Ta Anth. Love to. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 14:04:39 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Peg
Subject: Watch out, peg
Message:
Anth and his wife, Dot (who is also an ex-premie) are into some pretty weird stuff. Like the time I stayed with them in Utrecht and Anth made Dot sing 'Lord of the Universe' to him while he was dressed in drag....

Beware.

Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 16:22:02 (EST)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Lights of the World -- SO COOL (OT)
Message:
the lights aren't out in Afganistan, the defense department bought all rights to all satellite images of Afganistan so there are no publically available current pictures from satellites of Afganistan.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 17:00:14 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: No, it's the space station
Message:
This picture wasn't from a satellite. It was from the new NASA space station. I know what you are saying about the satellites is true, but I think Afghanistan really IS dark.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 20:14:37 (EST)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: No, it's the space station
Message:
I use a text based browser and hadn't looked at the picture - there wouldn't be enought their to help anybody figure out anything re the war. There are a lot of remote places left in the world. Look at Alaska - seems empty.
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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 01:29:20 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Not empt y
Message:
Alaska just doesn't have very many people, although Anchorage is a fairly large city. Parts of Alaska, I think are the most beautiful, awesome places I have ever seen.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 21:02:18 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Time exposure
Message:
It's obviously a time exposure photograph or rather set of photographs that have been put together to create the panoramic view. I believe from space, you can't actually see any Earth lights under normal circumstances put a time exposure would pick them up.

I once experimented with time exposures, just leaving the shutter open with the camera on a tripod in complete darkness or outside in near darkness. The results were always stunning and many incredible effects can be created and many objects that are invisible to the naked eye can come to light when the negatives are printed.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 15:04:28 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Ignore Please
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 15:05:24 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Sorry, here is link (another try)
Message:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg
[ Earth Lights ]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:12:13 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Beautiful, Joe, I'll pass it on... [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 18:33:43 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Riga is bright, but my house isn't
Message:
Nice map, Joe, thanks. Riga appears brighter the Tallin or Vilnius, but then you all knew that didn't you?

John.

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 23:36:26 (EST)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: You can see the Canal!
Message:
I don't see my house, but I see the Panama Canal, and since I live right next to it, I guess I CAN see my house!!

Thanks for the picture, Joe.
P.S. How come all this Ex-premie activity started after I left the Bay Area?

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Date: Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 04:09:48 (EST)
From: p
Email: None
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Re: You can see the Canal!
Message:
You said: ''How come all this Ex-premie activity started after I left the Bay Area?''

Half of us were still in the goddam (scuse me padre ;)) cult.

Do you have jacarandas in Panama?

Pat:C)

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 17:32:48 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: well i guess this proves,
Message:
among other things, that Africa really is 'the dark continent', even at this late date.

i wonder how they took the image? is it in the visible spectrum? the infrared ? does it look like this to the naked eye?

funny, how we look like nothing more than a bloom of phosphorescent moss or fungus or something. wonder what space travellers would think of the sight of it?

and notice how both the west of the US and the eastern expanse of russia have great empty reaches by comparison to their other ends.

there still are wide open spaces left. we oughta spread out and uncrowd each other.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:29:36 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Africa: the Dark Continent
Message:
Africa really is like that when you fly from Europe to South Africa. Suddenly out of the darkness you see Gauteng (formerly the Witwatersrand) which is the metropolis around Johannesburg and Pretoria (pop 15 million out of the total SA pop of 45 miliion.) Even most of South Africa is dark except for the coast where the other four big cities are, Cape Town, Port Elizabeth, East London and Durban,
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 18:06:17 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Oh, no
Message:
No, we shouldn't 'spread out.' We should all live in higher-density, environmentally friendly areas, where we can walk most places, or take nice, public transportation, and leave the open space to the forests, productive farmland, and the poor other creatures we humans are driving to extinction. The spread of 'suburbs' in the U.S. and other places, is one of the most greedy blights on the planet.

Joe
Who sometimes reads literature from Greenpeace, Save the Earth and the Sierra Club.:)

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 18:45:41 (EST)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Oh, no (ot)
Message:
Hey Joe, that 'productive farmland' stuff eats up loads of land and takes it away from the critters (thus allowing us to overpopulate, like crazy). What needs to happen is for us humans to stop populating and then, when our numbers drop significantly, we learn from our error and go back to hunter/gatherer and spread out, like nature intended. :-)
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:09:49 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: not that way, joe--
Message:
I didn't mean suburban sprawl; I meant low density eco friendly communities or lonely homesteads. high density makes for terrible impact on the natural world. the waste generated, the stress on our territorial instincts, the pace of life, the lack of privacy and safety are all horribly detrimental to us and the planet. we should all go and live like anth and be hobbits.
take only pictures? leave only footprints?

janet who has in the past been a member of
greenpeace
the sierra club
amnesty international
the world wildlife federation
the planetary society
PETA
the society for creative anachronism
(the rennaissance faire)
a dumpster diver
the handyman club of america

and homeless, at times.

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 04:19:39 (EST)
From: Mirror
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: All the money I could have
Message:

janet who has in the past been a member of
greenpeace
the sierra club
amnesty international
the world wildlife federation
the planetary society
PETA
the society for creative anachronism
(the rennaissance faire)
a dumpster diver
the handyman club of america



---

given to those organizations instead of EV... what a waste... perhaps we could have saved the white wolf in the sierras instead of the fraud in malibu.

Mirror

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Date: Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 01:47:27 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Mirror
Subject: there's still time and money left to!
Message:
no time like right now.
as someo spoonerized here the other day, nothin wrong with bein a 'rabbit hugging, tree fucking activist'.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 17:31:36 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Thanks Joe! enjoyed by all the family. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 15:29:17 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Well, I'm gald you finally got it right
Message:
Thanks for sharing that, Joe. That really is something to behold. I'm trying to figure out what all the empty spaces are. I'm not too keen on geography, but I imagine the Amazon jungle in South America and the Sahara in Africa account for at least two of the dark areas. What else? Any geniuses care to enlighten? I'd bet Maharaji would know. That's a thought. Hey, M, why don't you REALLY enlighten us for a change and tell us where there's no light in the world tonight?
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 16:51:25 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Re: Well, I'm gald you finally got it right
Message:
Yeah, I kept forgetting to put in the "link name" and not just the "link." I'm new at the linking business.

I read that this absolutely awesome picture was taken from the Boeing space station last November on a perfect night with no obscuring conditions.

Yeah, the Amazon is in South America, the Sahara is in North Africa and the middle of Africa is rainforest. Up North no lights hardly in Greenland, and note that the populated areas of Canada are all along the U.S. border.

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 08:07:18 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Amazing and beautiful
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 15:17:27 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Thanks, Joe. Terrific. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 18:42:56 (EST)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Wow. Monitors w/ EPO! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 12:53:08 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: kevjo@mindspring.com
To: All
Subject: To Linda Pascotto
Message:
January 10, 2002

Dear Linda Pascotto,

I don't have an email address for you, so I am posting this hoping you will see it or that someone will forward it to you. I don't believe we ever met during my time as a follower of Maharaji from 1973 to 1983.

I am informed that you appeared in the video Passages -- A Master's Journey, put out by Visions International in 2001 which is currently available for sale to the public on the Visions website. I also understand the video has been shown at events sponsored by Visions and Elan Vital, and/or other organizations associated with Maharaji.

As you know, the video does not contain the views or opinions of even one person with a differing opinion of Maharaji and/or his history in the West, which many would find troubling in and of itself, if indeed, the video were intended to be a true documentary as it purports to be.

In addition, editorial decisions may have influenced your particular comments in the video, and I wanted to find out from you if you truly hold the opinions attributed to you, as in one particular case they personally involve me, and many other former followers of Maharaji.

Particularly, in the video you mention that after Maharaji closed his ashrams [in 1983] some premies/students you knew 'stopped practicing [knowledge],' because they 'felt betrayed.' Any further comments from you on this subject are edited out of the video.

The point that your comments were used to support is that premies 'stopped practicing' and 'felt betrayed' because the ashrams were closed, and, presumably, since these premies were more interested in the ashrams than in the practice of knowledge, they 'stopped practicing.'

As someone who ceased being a follower of Maharaji around the time the ashrams were closed, I find that opinion not only falacious, but offensive, especially because this video is being distributed to the public, and shown at public events. Is it true that you acutally know people who were so enamored with the ashrams that they 'felt betrayed' when Maharaji closed them and 'stopped practicing' for that reason?

I personally have never known anyone for whom that situation was true, and despite numerous conversations with many former followers of Maharaji, I have found no one who has found that opinion anything other than absurd, and actually insulting to many of Maharaji's former followers, who, like me, dilligently practiced knowledge as instructed by Maharaji for a decade or more.

Many premies did leave Maharaji when the ashrams were closed, not because they loved the ashrams, but because they began to question whether Maharaji was a Master worthy of trust because he closed the ashrams in a very uncaring and insensitive fashion, and abruptly did so after many years of encouraging his followers to move into such ashrams for life-long committments, while at the same time denigrating career, education, marriage and family as alternatives.

Hence they felt 'betrayed' by Maharaji's actions both before and after he closed the ashrams, because of all the personal sacrifices made to live in those ashrams, and the profound negative effects those sacrifices had on the rest of their lives. I have spoken with numerous former ashram premies who hold this opinion, and do indeed feel 'betrayed' by Maharaji in relation to his ashrams.

I would appreciate your opinions in this regard, as I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt, and trust that you intended to state the latter opinion, whether you agree with those "betayed" feelings or not, and that it was either inappropriate or sloppy editing that resulted in how you came accross in the video.

As I mentioned at the outset of this letter, I am posting this message on the Forum 7 maintained by former followers of Maharaji, with the hope that you will see it, or perhaps someone will forward it to you.

Please feel free to respond either on Forum 7, or via email, and I have included my email address, which is kevjo@mindspring.com.

Thank you,

Joe Whalen
San Francisco, California

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 15:24:39 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Letter to Linda Pascotto
Message:
Excellent letter Joe. It certainly represents my sentiments and experience vis-a-vis the ashram succinctly. I hope Ms. Pascotto can respond.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 16:56:46 (EST)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Pullaver
Subject: Re: Letter to Linda Pascotto
Message:
Thanks, Pull. It would be great if we could get a dialogue on this issue because I have a hard time believing Linda really believes what the video implied she was saying. I'm hoping someone has her email address and will forward the letter to her, and then maybe we could talk about it. Whether you want to be a follower of Maharaji or not, people don't have the right to spread lies about Maharaji's former followers, and that's what that video does.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 12:49:59 (EST)
From: Anandaji
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Recentexes Forum
Message:
Is the Recentexes Forum still active? I have requested access, but get no response.

It has been one month since the EPO discovery and I am feeling the need to be in a group, to say: 'Hi, I'm Anandaji, I'm a recovering gullible fool,' and deal with the obvious issues of breaking out.

However, not having shared anything with anyone about my secret world for 28 years, I am not quite up to publicly weeping,whining and gnashing in Forum Seven, where those of you more experienced in anti-K appear to have moved well into the anger stage.

Meanwhile, I am at home under my blankie with one thumb in my mouth and the other in an ear.

You mean he ISN'T the Lord of the Universe?!

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 07:50:17 (EST)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: Anandaji
Subject: your new way of practising..
Message:
makes me smile.....thanks ............wolfie

maybe I should try this in my deepest darkest hour?

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 13:04:46 (EST)
From: Anandaji
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: Re: your new way of practising..
Message:
And get this! I am suddenly getting nectar through my ear and music through my mouth. Go figger.

BTW
---
I heard from the Recent Exec administrator and I am going through the process of requesting access.

I'm glad you found some humor in my misery. ;-)

Say, where do people get those little smiley face thingies they post with messages? Do you know?

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 13:42:42 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: Anandaji
Subject: Re: Recentexes Forum
Message:
You don't sound too much like you need mollycoddling. Anyway, if you go to RE, then I'll miss your sense of humor. If you want to talk ''privately,'' you can always make some email pals. Sorry, I can't point you to it because I don't know anything about it.

But then It's never bothered me who reads what about me which is why my CAC profile made such juicy reading. I prefer having the big audience on F7 even if I did make a fool of myself with public drunkeness, troll paranoia and one incident of flashing. ;)

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 17:15:51 (EST)
From: Francesca :~)
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Some people post on both, Pat!
Message:
Anyway, here is the info again:

Recent Exes Forum

Recent Exes is a private, confidential, flame-free forum for ex-premies (whether recent or not) who, for whatever reason, would prefer not to post on a public forum.

To join, email the Recent Exes Forum Administrator at recentexes@yahoo.com. Please note that it is possible for your application to be refused. If you have any questions about this, please discuss it with the Forum Administrator.

If you've recently applied, give it a few days. If not, just resend your e-mail to the address above.

As Pat said, private e-mails are also good. :)

--f

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 10:44:19 (EST)
From: Falala
Email: None
To: All
Subject: There is only one master
Message:
The master's words from December 2001 can be read at the link provided.
[ The Master's discourse ]
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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 03:53:27 (EST)
From: I don't know what the FA is
Email: None
To: Falala
Subject: but I've just got to have it ! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 02:15:48 (EST)
From: Brian S
Email: None
To: Falala
Subject: What the Fa***k is this all about [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 14:52:55 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Falala
Subject: Protection from these alien thoughts
Message:
God help us all
[ The AFDB ]
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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 08:42:03 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: If
Message:
HE is not an ALIEN himself.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 15:48:23 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: AFDB
Message:
Freakin' hilarious. Especially:

A Note About The Shiny Side:
It can't be stressed enough how important it is to have the shiny side pointing out. This is needed because the shiny side is most reflective to psychotronic radiation, while the dull side can actually, in certain environmental conditions, absorb it. However, as is illustrated in the instructions above, it is also wise to complement this with a layer of foil pointing shiny side in. This will keep your brain waves, which are also reflected by the shiny side, from being picked up by mind-reading equipment.

There is a small number of aluminum foil researchers who believe that this may cause an alpha-wave harmonic to build up in the skull resulting in memory loss or pseudo-religious visions, but their findings have never been replicated by the aluminum foil research community at large. Sounds like Persinger's God-Helmet.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 15:05:27 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: eDrek, give me a ring
Message:
Do you want to go to Disculta's this Sunday and watch videos? You can tag along too if you like.

Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 18:24:54 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Roger, I think she wants you to propose.
Message:
I heard rumours that the crazy Mexican disappeared suddenly, just before Christmas.

Be careful.

May the fork be with you.

Anth the Pleasant Tony

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 21:03:45 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Yes, Anth, I thought the same thing
Message:
but, whenever I get overly involved with any of the women on the Forum trouble always ensues.

Indeed, I love Marianne and I owe her so much, but since I might need her professional services one day I think it would be remain only friends.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 15:01:47 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Aluminum beanies and mercury fillings......
Message:
......create a great radio telescope for picking up signals from Alpha Centauri. The trouble is they are also just selling soap like our local TV.

However if you then wear a copper bracelet and put magnets in your shoes you can get holographic pornography from the Horse Nebula. Trouble is the Nebulans look like cockroaches with slimy....better not go into details on a family forum.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 17:25:26 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: PatC: supremely funny, thanks for the laugh (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:33:08 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Pleased to be of service, Rog. :C) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 14:24:41 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Falala
Subject: Sounds like the One True Lord.
Message:
Where do I send the money to?

Anth seeker of Truth.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 11:53:48 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Falala
Subject: I love it!
Message:
Yes, indeed, to separate the Fa from the Fa .... this guy is hilarious!
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 11:52:30 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Falala
Subject: Sweet FA
Message:
Until I read this, I didn't know whether to agree with the Chinese government about whther this was a dangerous cult, but now I agree.

There's too much to criticise, but this instruction sounded familiar:-

You must have a lot of questions. I think that through studying the Fa you'll be able to resolve all of them. Many specific questions and problems can be resolved as long as you study the Fa. Also, you need to pay attention to one issue: you are Dafa disciples, so you should always look within whenever you run into problems--it's guaranteed that many of the problems are your problems, whether you want to look at yourself or not, or whether you think of them or not.

Is Li Hongzhi related to Prem Rawat?

John.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 13:50:01 (EST)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Do Re Mi Fa-rectumification. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 15:16:07 (EST)
From: Pullaver
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Fe-Fa-Fo-Fum, I smell the blood of
Message:
Fa-rectification. Makes perfect sense.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 14:04:10 (EST)
From: Falala
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Photos
Message:
Photos from the event in Florida, Dec. 29, 2001!!!
[ photos! ]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 19:01:59 (EST)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Falala
Subject: whole life expo
Message:
I got to see these guys up close in person at the last whole life expo in los angeles, a year ago in october.
their energy is good. very focused, humble, centered and healing. they say very little. their exercises look like t'ai chi, and they were doing aura balancings for expo patrons, one at a time. i watched some of these. you could almost see the auras around them.
they wear golden yellow satin pajama's like karate gi's when they work. there is nothing fanatical, excitable, egotistical or emotional about their demeanor, as compared, to, say, a taliban, or a premie, a moonie, a krishna temple devotee, a born again christian. they don't have the superior air of a scientologist, nor the warlike readiness of a martial arts student.
this clarity and righteous thought they speak of really does seem to come thru. their bearing is like a still pool of clear water, very straight and still and one pointed.

all in all I was not offended by any of it. if you see them, approach and feel the vibe and see what you think of it all.

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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 08:58:42 (EST)
From: Sulla
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Re: Not yet please!
Message:
Oh my God, Janet! you got me by surprise, I haven't finished my Aluminum* Foil Deflector Beanie.
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Date: Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 02:35:15 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: The guy with the triangle strapped onto his head
Message:
was my last wierd experience at a whole life expo. Unlike the cool demeaner of those that you described these folks actually were agressively trying (with limited success) to convince people to buy these headbands with copper triangle shaped structures fastened to them.

Channeling pyramid power directly into the head so they said, not only did these people look ridiculous they were genuine loony tunes to boot.

If you happen to attend a function where you run into these people at the next expo or whatever, Just have a good laugh at the insane gullible nature of grown adults in the search for spiritual fullfillment.

There seems to be no boundries

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 05:22:21 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nige@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: All
Subject: The Three Wise Monkeys..
Message:
Once upon a time there were three wise monkeys: See-No-Evil, Believe-No-Evil and Disregard-All-Evil. More precisely, these were three variants of wise monkey. (For there were other monkey variants – all of them unwise – but this is not their story).

The ‘wisdom’ in question, was a certain ‘understanding’ about the alpha male of the wise monkeys, Admit-No-Evil. The ‘evil’ in question was the alleged, deceit, corruption and authoritarianism of Admit-No-Evil, and consequences arising.

As a social group, the three types rubbed along just fine provided they didn’t discuss the truth or seriousness of the allegations about Admit-No-Evil. They also needed to beware encounters with former wise monkeys {Type (4): Disclose-All-Evil} who might spread dissent within the wise monkey collective with their unwise and unwelcome allegations.

The difference between variants 1, 2, and 3 was cultural rather than innate. So not only was it possible for an individual ape to switch, as occasion demanded, from being, say, a Type 1 to a Type 2 or 3, it was also well-established that any of them could become a Type 4 seemingly overnight. (By the same token, a Type 4 could, theoretically, revert to being a 1, 2 or 3 – but such occurrences were virtually unknown..)

The Type (1) Wise Monkey: See-No-Evil

A not entirely dishonourable position to adopt – and the standard setting-off point for all wise monkeys:

‘I have no knowledge of wrongdoing on Maharaji’s part…’ [yes, of course this is an allegory!], ‘…or of harm arising from his mission. I enjoy Knowledge, and my encounters with its giver. Other people’s experiences are their own and – sure -everybody is entitled to an opinion. Fine, but I will base my own purely on what I know, thank you very much…’

(Lest anyone accuse me of setting-up straw-man arguments, can I mention here that unattributed quotes represent my own former premie thought processes.)

See-No-Evil may have heard of negative rumours doing the rounds, but lacks interest:

‘Type 4’s are probably bitter, insincere people whose motivations differ from mine, who should never have received Knowledge in the first place. Their negativity will hamper the spreading of the experience so many of us enjoy to people who deserve to discover it. There is nothing they could say which would change my experience, so why even listen to them?’

Observe ‘R2’ doing similar in his unprovoked New Year rant against ex-premies:

You probably should never have become a premie [my emphasis]. If there’s one thing you might fault Maharaji for , is [sic] allowing Knowledge to be given so indiscriminately. I mean, it’s not for everybody, really. [Hmm… remember ‘shout it from the rooftops’?] Neither is crossing the South Pole on a sail board. Nor is becoming a crack commando in the Israeli military. I’d be a little pissed myself if I’d gotten into something I really wasn’t prepared for nor had the stamina to succeed at. I guess that’s why he became more hands-on with the dissemination of Knowledge.

(Aah – if only I had managed that tricky stamina thing..)

The real problem here is the lack of enlightened self-interest, which would have, from the outset, sought sources of information other than cult spoon-feed. The same enlightened self-interest would question whether (and quickly discover that) the ‘Knowledge’ techniques are public domain and associated with dozens of ‘Masters’. Enlightened self-interest would prompt the question: ‘If a clearly mortal human being, speaking with his mind, claims to be ‘speaking to my heart’, then what is such irrational nonsense supposed to mean?’ Enlightened self-interest would demand evidence for believing the ‘Master’ possessed but one masterly quality (other than to sit on a stage, smile on occasion, hector a little and ramble on somewhat. Many fake masters have done that. Any non-master can do that. So how is this one different?).

At a squeeze, the See-No-Evil monkey might concede the possibility of minor flaws in the alpha male – might even consider possible alternative sources of ‘Knowledge’ but fall back on the ‘if it ain’t busted, don’t fix it’ principle: I like M and K, so why look elsewhere for what I already have?

The long-term harm done by the See-No-Evil mindset is mostly to ones world-view, motivations, and, perhaps, bank balance.

Type (2) Wise Monkey: Believe-No-Evil

Things get serious when a Type (1), against wiser judgement, succumbs to curiousity and browses, say, the Mishler interview, Mike Dettmers’ testimony or John MacGregor’s revelations – a whole swathe of negativity spanning the decades. Accepting the possibility of the hit-and-run road-death occurring as detailed, or Maharaji’s failure to act over Jagdeo, causes dissonance. However, options still exist to minimize internal conflict. Interestingly, the critical scrutiny that was absent from the Type 1’s assessment of M as a Master is suddenly brought to bear on the witness instead.

Here is ‘R2’ again, now in Believe-No-Evil mode:

’You are not very discerning. Generally, you follow that tried-and-true tribal tenet, “any enemy of my enemy is a friend of mine”. This is exemplified every day when anyone says something negative about Maharaji, no matter how outrageous and unfounded, it will be soundly supported by a chorus of “well said’s” and “****Best of Forum’s****”. The problem with this gem of a 'quality' of course is that the enemy of your enemy may just be the devil himself, and you wouldn’t be prepared to tell the difference.’

Note Type (2)’s failure to address any ‘outrageous and unfounded’ allegations. Easier to characterize the bringer of bad tidings as the devil than consider the possibility of one’s own lack of discernment - the possibility that there really is an elephant in the room.

At a pinch, Believe-No-Evil might accept the witnesses’ sincerity, but will instead question that source’s perceptions or memory. ‘Perhaps there is a grain of truth in all this, but I am sure there has been all manner of distortion and exaggeration along the way…’

The long-term harm done by the Believe-No-Evil mindset is similar to See-No-Evil’s, with the added factor of the wise monkey’s becoming socially dysfunctional: distrustful and sometimes malicious when interacting with the unwise.

Type (3) Wise Monkey: Disregard-All-Evil

Here is the ugliest manifestation of monkey wisdom. Yes, facts have been corroborated by so many sources that it is no longer tenable to deny them. Instead, you can either ignore them, or – worse – shrug them off as trivial or irrelevant.

R2 again, now in Disregard-All-Evil mode:

You sweat the small stuff. The nit-picky level of detail that you bemoan your years as premies [sic] is very telling in this regard. Chill! Life is too short.

Yes, I seem to remember R2’s sensitive forum exchanges last year with Abi regarding her ‘small stuff’.

More recently another premie made a comment along the lines of: ‘my ex-lovers say the same about me’ (in a light-hearted response to a post which reported how female victims of M’s sexual predation had felt hurt and abused).

The last resort for Type (3), if all else fails, is to blame lesser wise monkeys for mishaps and misdemeanors (ok - which really did happen, after all). In this respect, Disregard-All-Evil resembles the object of his unswerving loyalty and devotion: big boss wise monkey, Admit-No-Evil – as the Atlanta propagation video abundantly illustrates.

In the case of Disregard-All-Evil, the long-term harm to one’s personal integrity is difficult to quantify.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 20:40:22 (EST)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Flippin Brilliant, Nigel
Message:
You have characterized the premie denial mechanism so beautifully.

Tim G and I have a mutual good premie friend of 30-years tenure, who, when we e-mailed him the Dettmers posts, responded that Michael Dettmers was unreliable and not to be trusted. Huh? Fits Type 2 precisely.

I recommend your categories be enshrined in Best of Forum somewhere.

Hope I can get to meet up with you and Moley when/if a Latvian manifests when Joe's in England. Take care,
Joy

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 06:22:52 (EST)
From: Peg
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: The Three Wise Monkeys..
Message:
Yes I think that fits with my process. Very satisfying to read.

I remember at the beginning something that I would like to call 'see the good'. A time when i really believed M was special and changing the world, sort of like listening to 'Imagine' by John Lennon and believing it was happening. That did involve see no evil though so perhaps that will do.
Peg

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 17:49:08 (EST)
From: yeah_right_210
Email: yeah_right_210@yahoo.com
To: All
Subject: breath fetish
Message:
What is with this breath fetish? Yes, breath is wonderful, but only as it coexists with many other physiological functions. Why doesn't he rant on about peristaltic action? ''Consider peristalsis.'' I suppose it doesn't have quite the 'ring' to it that ''consider this breath'' has. Or perhaps, ''Consider the lymphatic system.'' ''Be grateful fo this Central Nervous System.'' ''Be grateful for your endocrinology.'' They don't roll off the tongue quite the same way, do they. Yes, without this breath, we would be dead
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and, oh, great greed-guru, the breath did not come from you. But, we would be equally dead without many other of our bodies' functions. What is he, some sort of moron? Or, more likely, he assumes his ''devotees'' are morons--and sources of income. At times, they appear so. I have watched the premies. I truly believe that the greed-guru could sit in front of a group of premies and read the phone book and they would tell you how profound and amazing it was. Some way, they would justify and adore this act. ''Normal'' folk would demand their money back, but the premies would love it and make it all ''okay'' somehow. Those who in their heart did not like it, would most likely tell themselves that they just didn't listen hard enough to their master and it is their own fault they got nothing out of his reading of the phone book. I've heard them say things like this, so I believe it is a true statement.

Then I got to thinking on the 'fetish' about children, and being like a child. If the greed-guru said to a child, 'Be grateful for this breath'', the child would look at him as if he were a blooming idiot, and rightly so. He is an idiot. Worse, he is criminally responsible for the enslavement of many people's souls, minds and hearts. And wallets. The premies, oddly enought, will argue with you that they are truly free. It is difficult not to stare at the person making such a statement with dropped jaw. Trust me, I know how difficult it is! But I am learning, albeit somewhat slowly, that to argue
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or even attempt discussion
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with a premie is a waste of time and yes, breath! Maybe they argue everything because they spend so much time considering their breath. I prefer to simply enjoy mine as I do my whole life
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not just the parts and things the greed-guru tell me it is okay to enjoy.

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 23:32:34 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: yeah_right_210
Subject: Breath fetish? John 4:24 [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 20:13:16 (EST)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: yeah_right_210
Subject: Re: breath fetish
Message:
Better late than never.

Hi there. To build on your's and other's posts.

The 'power' of the breath lies in our constantly recurring need to do it. It is a constantly supplied form of relief. In physiological systems it is called appetitive behaviour. That means - we eat and then we are not interested in food. Later on we are interested in food and get hungry again. Then when we eat we are again satisfied. This behaviour is replicated in many systems. Smoking, sex, sleep etc,

In terms of breathing the appetitative cycle is very short - seconds. We breathe and it creates or can create a slight or small satisfaction which is only momentary because we quickly feel the need to breathe in or out again. So it is a bit like constantly fulfilling a need that immediately re-emerges. It feels like a constant stream of asmall satisfactions - which it is. Add to this the expansion of the diaphragm and the infusion effectof oxygen, the effect of getting rid of CO2 and it can feel pretty good. But as you say it is all physiological. It could be considered a bit like self-massage only better because we don't have the hand we are massaging ourselves with as well.

I haven't read anything to confim this view of mine but I reckon it is pretty close.

Cheers

Peter Howie

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 10:52:40 (EST)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: yeah_right_210
Subject: Throughly enjoyed your post.
Message:
I don't have the time and I feel a bit lazy, I should go to bed actually, but I have to say that what you wrote made me laugh and is so right on! And you sure can write!

Keep on keeping on, whatever that means. The further you distance yourself from Ralwatism, the funnier it gets.

Thanks so much,
Warmly, Tonette

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 21:26:24 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: yeah_right_210
Subject: Re: breath fetish
Message:
I've often mentioned here that breath meditation or whatever you want to call it is being revealed for under £2 (about $3) in Sainsbury's supermarkets in Britain. It's in the book, ''Stress Relief'' and is actually a much better explanation than anything Maharaji ever gave.

Of course, it is one of the Hindu beliefs that breath is the life force. They call it ''prana''. This medieval idea that life comes from breath is a deeply ingrained Hindu belief which is not found in other religions. I guess the belief comes from the obvious fact that live people breath while dead bodies don't.

When such beliefs became part of Hindu philosophy, such things as blood circulation, the heart, digestive processes and brain activity were not understood, However, the breath was pretty obvious and easy to see.

It took me a long time to figure out that the Hindus genuinely believe that the name of God is being spoken in us all the time and that name is the sound of the breath. In other words, God speaks His name every time we breath in and out. Or to put it another way, the sound of the breath is God speaking His name. It's a really bizarre and medieval belief once you understand it. Many Hindus genuinely believe it.

I doubt that Maharaji ever meditates on his breath. He just talks about it. That and ''enjoyment'' and now ''self knowledge''.

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 18:28:08 (EST)
From: Deborah
Email: None
To: yeah_right_210
Subject: Love this post
Message:
I haven't met you before. My name is Deborah Rose and I'd like to welcome you aboard.
i totally agree that Maha could read the phone book and the premies would find something sacred about it.

Even when I was in the throws of the cult I acknowledged that Maha could talk about dogshit and everyone would still get all blissed out.
It's quite something else to acknowledge that fact from the perspective of a 'What were we thinking' point of view, isn't it?

I drifted away from the cult 9read: lost touch) and even referred to it as my cult days, tongue in cheek, of course, many years later but no sense of humour prepared me for the repressed facts. Yucckkk

Welcome aboard, yeah!

deb

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 18:06:26 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: yeah_right_210
Subject: You've got it, yeah_right_210...
Message:
Hello,

I don't think we've met. I'm Cynthia Gracie of Vermont. Welcome to the forum. I take it you don't like Maharaji too much :)

Your post was a joy to read. ''Cherish the central nervous system.''

Thank you, I need a good laugh. I have no advice to give you (which is not usual for me).

I simply wanted to welcome you here. This is not easy stuff. Try to be patient. True love will always conquer, and Maharaji knows nothing about real, human love.

Best,
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 18:11:51 (EST)
From: yeah_right_210
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: You've got it, yeah_right_210...
Message:
Thank you for the welcome, Cynthia. Nice to be able to speak one's mind without eliciting an argument about the greed-guru. Just some nice open, honest discussion. Now the greed-guru, when he sneaks away to read this forum, will have to have one of his flunkies look up the word ''honest'' for him, as it is most assuredly not in his vocabulary.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 04:27:18 (EST)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: yeah_right_210
Subject: If M doesn't read this forum I'll bet that
Message:
His brother Satpol does, aka the other heir apparent to the Lord of the Universe title. And probably laughing his ass off as well at he watches the verbal roasting of his little brother.

I will bet the thought of Satpol checking in for his daily roar at M's expense makes him just absolutely livid.

It's hard to imagine that M can't help but wonder if the big brother has gotten wind of his public grilling and links up all of his compadre's as well.

BTW thanks for you post yeah_right_210, and welcome to the land of the Livers.

Who without their very important contribution we could not function either let alone draw breath.

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Date: Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 22:45:04 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: yeah_right_210
Subject: I like your style...
Message:
Hi yeah_right_210,

But I'm having a hell of a time typing your name. Just kidding.

Isn't it wonderful to be able to freely express one's feelings and thoughts about the cult?

I think so.

Please keep posting, you have a great sense of humor and way with words.

You can't imagine how much your post made me laugh, a laugh much needed.

Best,
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, Jan 10, 2002 at 18:47:38 (EST)
From: yeah_right_210
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: I like your style...
Message:
But I'm having a hell of a time typing your name.

---

Just call me 210 for short. And thanks for all the positive input, all. You are a ''breath'' of real air!

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