Jim -:- Katie and I FINALLY worked things out -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 20:16:35 (EST)

__ Joe -:- Thanks, Jim (and Katie) -:- Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 01:49:08 (EST)

__ such -:- Edepol! [Gosh!] -:- Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 00:49:16 (EST)

__ __ Joe -:- Such -:- Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 02:01:51 (EST)

__ Barry -:- Cheers Jim! Nice post. -:- Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 00:22:49 (EST)

__ Moley -:- Fab stuff !! EV monitor please note. xx nt . -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 20:40:32 (EST)

Tonette -:- Gerry you may want to lock this thread -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 19:19:09 (EST)

__ Deborah -:- Tonette, keep looking up -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 23:20:41 (EST)

__ Chuck S. -:- Forum dynamics and perspective... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 21:08:16 (EST)

__ PatD -:- Love to you too Tonette -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 20:21:23 (EST)

__ Moley -:- Tonette - your brilliant , thank you -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 19:38:22 (EST)

Moley reposting Nige -:- Anatomy of a F7 Argument -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 18:20:29 (EST)

__ Pullaver -:- Re: Anatomy of a F7 Argument -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 22:14:26 (EST)

__ Tonette -:- It's okay, I over-reacted -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 19:58:59 (EST)

__ __ Moley -:- Tonette - luv and email if yer like- EV monitor NB -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 20:29:14 (EST)

__ __ Jim -:- Before you go ....... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 20:26:33 (EST)

Joe -:- Response to EPO -- McDuck's Comments -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 18:16:41 (EST)

__ Joe -:- Email -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 18:25:50 (EST)

cq -:- Light diversion - and a mindblower -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:40:03 (EST)

__ cq -:- oops, forgot to mention - -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:42:45 (EST)

PatC -:- International Conference Management -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:42:32 (EST)

__ Pullaver -:- Re: International Conference Management -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 23:15:09 (EST)

__ Tonette -:- I'm leaving, I have left, however... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 22:19:22 (EST)

__ Vicki -:- Re: International Conference Management -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 17:21:04 (EST)

__ __ suchabanana -:- yeah, premies put in huge hours -:- Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 00:07:51 (EST)

__ __ JHB -:- This is important!!!! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 19:22:13 (EST)

__ suchabanana -:- 'industrial strength' Conference Management -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:22:17 (EST)

__ __ Inside Edition -:- Remember Jim Vuko anyone? -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 22:40:31 (EST)

__ __ __ Joe -:- Yes, Jim Vuko? -:- Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 01:28:20 (EST)

__ __ __ Deborah -:- Sounds very familiar [nt] -:- Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 00:13:50 (EST)

__ __ __ Didn't he -:- wear jumpsuits a lot? ~) ~) [nt] -:- Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 00:12:30 (EST)

__ __ PatC -:- For 'industrial strength' church ladies [nt] -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 17:46:08 (EST)

__ cq -:- 16 results here, Pat -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:14:02 (EST)

__ __ cq -:- You're right.& I should 'refresh' more often(nt) -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:21:41 (EST)

__ __ __ cq -:- (not to mention target practice) nt -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:34:50 (EST)

__ __ link # 11 -:- is the same -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:21:36 (EST)

__ __ __ Deborah -:- Steve Adler is still around? [nt] -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:04:43 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Vicki -:- Re: Steve Adler is still around? -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 16:55:16 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Think so -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 17:37:24 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Veg-o-matic -:- Re: Think so -:- Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 00:15:29 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Inside Edition -:- Aitta Travel - John Davis? (nt) -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 23:43:36 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deobrah -:- Re: Aitta Travel sounds right -:- Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 00:11:08 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Deborah -:- Notice website says NOTHING -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:15:08 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Notice website says NOTHING -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:27:30 (EST)

__ __ PatC -:- It's # 10 but link is broken [nt] -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:17:18 (EST)

__ Nick Danger, Third Eye -:- Re: International Conference Management -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:58:46 (EST)

__ __ PatC -:- and the Whois info... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:09:28 (EST)

cq -:- FA - please read -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:09:17 (EST)

__ PatC (Asst FAb) -:- Which thread? -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:38:54 (EST)

__ __ cq -:- Goggles on ... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:57:22 (EST)

__ __ __ PatC -:- Re: Goggles on ... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:12:53 (EST)

__ __ __ __ cq -:- Re: Goggles on ... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:20:14 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Hey, cq...re: locked thread -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:22:44 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- I emailed them to you [nt] -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:11:17 (EST)

berni -:- Tainted Love -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 06:21:25 (EST)

__ Loaf -:- Re: Tainted Love -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 06:51:20 (EST)

Brian Smith -:- My one year anniversary here today -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:19:00 (EST)

__ Deborah -:- Thank you, too Brian [nt] -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:29:18 (EST)

__ __ DeProGramAnandJi -:- Re: Thank you, too Brian -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 21:05:57 (EST)

__ __ Cynthia -:- To: Brian... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:34:11 (EST)

__ PatC -:- It was a very good year -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:48:14 (EST)

__ wolfie -:- it means what it says -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 09:25:24 (EST)

__ JS -:- nice heart felt post, Brian... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 08:29:34 (EST)

__ __ Carl -:- You captured it: Rawatism in a nutshell -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:57:17 (EST)

__ Loaf -:- awww.... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:38:15 (EST)

Loaf -:- Embarrassment -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:11:27 (EST)

__ Ben Lurking -:- It was a cult -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:27:22 (EST)

__ PatC -:- Bellbottoms and guru buttons -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:20:46 (EST)

__ __ Cynthia -:- I wore guru necklaces())())()) NT -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 11:27:08 (EST)

__ __ __ PatC -:- Guru necklaces? -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:53:26 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Guru necklaces?? -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:54:59 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ dEpROgRAmANanDjI -:- Re: Guru necklaces? -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 21:16:19 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Re: Guru necklaces? No thanks -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:14:44 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Guru necklaces? No thanks -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:31:17 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- I kept a Xmas card from Rawat for... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:53:05 (EST)

suchabanana -:- letters to Santa [partially ot] -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 01:52:30 (EST)

__ Wolf Blitzer -:- ho-larious (nt) -:- Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 01:32:54 (EST)

SC -:- Cat and I are finished! -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 22:56:10 (EST)

__ cq -:- This MUST be another cult, no? -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:41:46 (EST)

__ JohnT -:- David Roupell is finished alright! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:48:52 (EST)

__ __ The Cat -:- Re: David Roupell is finished alright! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:54:02 (EST)

__ __ __ JohnT -:- You too! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:01:33 (EST)

__ __ __ __ CW -:- Re: You too! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 06:23:24 (EST)

__ Tami Sunshine Rainbow -:- Yu tel them -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 00:14:51 (EST)

__ __ Pauline Premie -:- You can say that again Tami -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 00:24:45 (EST)

__ __ __ Loaf -:- my fave quote -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 06:39:22 (EST)

__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Let it all flow -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 08:49:48 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ Loaf -:- Re: Let it all flow -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 10:15:28 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- How about..... -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 12:21:26 (EST)

__ __ __ Deborah -:- You're fuckin hilarious -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 00:34:40 (EST)

__ McDuck -:- Re: Cat and I are finished! -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 23:02:43 (EST)

__ __ SC -:- Aw comon McDuck! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 20:36:55 (EST)

__ __ PatC -:- Re: Cat and I are finished! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:06:39 (EST)

__ __ __ SC -:- Aw comon Pat! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 19:52:21 (EST)

__ __ __ The Wild Cat -:- Re: Cat and I are finished! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:51:01 (EST)

__ __ __ __ anti CULT patrol -:- ^^^ CYBERSTALKER THREAT!! ^^^ [nt] -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:04:19 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ WHooP Whoop -:- PULL OVER DRIVER!!!! -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 06:26:51 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Welcome to Woop Woop - OT -:- Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:03:44 (EST)

JHB -:- Guru Puja -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 18:15:26 (EST)

__ Dit Mitchkoff -:- Re: Guru Puja -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 19:13:11 (EST)

__ __ Deborah -:- Well that was funny [nt] -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 20:50:22 (EST)

__ __ JHB -:- Thanks, Dit -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 19:30:19 (EST)

cq -:- So just WHO is responsible for this ??? -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 14:50:35 (EST)

__ gerry -:- Shit happens, but... -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:50:04 (EST)

__ Loaf -:- Re: So just WHO is responsible for this ??? -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:50:29 (EST)

__ __ such -:- space cadets -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:29:35 (EST)

__ __ __ such -:- more space cadets:some real flamers -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:31:40 (EST)

__ __ __ __ berni -:- Space Cowboys - warning -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:43:57 (EST)

__ Francesca -:- I'm with you, cq [nt] -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:41:04 (EST)

Inside Edition -:- -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 00:20:37 (EST)

gerry -:- Free Anti-Virus Software (OT) -:- Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:03:29 (EST)

__ Chuck S. -:- More Free Anti-Virus Software (OT) -:- Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:56:20 (EST)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Check eSafe antivirus also -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 10:50:43 (EST)

__ JHB -:- Re: Free Anti-Virus Software (OT) -:- Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:06:40 (EST)

__ __ gerry -:- read it again, John -:- Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:16:31 (EST)

__ __ __ JHB -:- I did but the link don't work [nt] -:- Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:21:55 (EST)

__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Try this -:- Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 20:13:20 (EST)

__ __ __ __ __ such -:- but I don't do windows [nt] -:- Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:20:16 (EST)

Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 20:16:35 (EST) From: Jim Email: None To: All Subject: Katie and I FINALLY worked things out Message:

After a short but productive email exchange with Katie over the last few days, I believe that we have, at long last, worked a few things out. For the first time in literally years I feel some closure with her. If you're interested, here's the story. Katie asked Gerry to forward an email a few days ago wherein she invited me to see if we couldn't resolve some things between us via email. I emailed her, saying, yes and, since then, we've discussed matters for the last few days to a point of honest resolution, I believe. With her permission, I can now explain all this. It's kind of interesting even. Like I say, like anyone knows who's been here throughout, I've been on Katie's case for years. Yep, I admit it. Katie, in my mind, was always the one ex willing to stand up for premies when everyone else found their words or actions indefensible. There've been many examples over the years. OP, CD, CW, Mili, Mel (when he was posting the same stupid arguments that even he has now admitted were insincere). Not that she always did by any means but, if there was an ex who'd give some 'support' to these guys, she was the one. This invariably pissed me off, partly because Katie did so to begin with but also because she refused to hash out the legitimacy or lack thereof of these protective gestures of hers. The premies, of course, siezed on this conflict and thus was born the ex-premie factionalism between so-called 'hardliners' and the more 'reasonable' exes. We've have many, many a fight about 'bullying' and the like on the forum and it all stems back to that initial divisiveness. I've always believed, and still do, that this rift was just terrible for the forum. The real 'Truth about Maharaji' (not Glasser's website, God forbid!) is a simple one. He is not the Lord of the Universe. He did claim he was. He no longer can even admit that. He's a fool at best, a snake at worst but, whatever he is, he is perhaps one of the very last people on earth qualified to advise anyone. That's the simple truth and anyone even casually aware of the man's fantastically awful history can see it in a flash. Sad to say, that doesn't really give premies a lot to work with. :) It's not the ex-premies' fault that there's so little common ground on which to forge a compromise of mutual respect premies for our respective beliefs. That's just the way it is. Accordingly, it takes a certain intellectual ruthlessness, perhaps, confronting said beliefs. It's truly neti neti time and, to the extent that one's chary about dismissing others' beliefs, that can well be unpleasant business. Some of us are more inclined to take the task up with relish than others. Katie isn't one of them. What Katie has admitted to me, and consented to me posting here, is that she really was, for the first time, influenced by her premie friend's beliefs. Here was a premie who was willing to admit that Maharaji does have some serious flaws. This was substantially more than most premies ever say and, in conjunction with the usual anti-EV type talk and the like, this premie impressed Katie as reasonable like no other had before. Now, my answer to this, as I told Katie, was that, if you really think about it, this argument only makes matters worse for the Maharaji apologist. For once a premie concedes that Maharaji has non-trivial faults and has committed non-trivial mistakes, his entire history is even more ripe for review. His very 'mastership' is on the block. And it becomes even more absurd to imagine his audacity in warning premies to 'never doubt the purity of the Master', to continue to accomodate, indeed incite, limitless devotion, etc. In other words, the notion of a 'reasonable' premie is itself untenable. Obviously so. But, as Katie explained, she had in fact been influenced by her friend. Influenced to such an extent that she came to believe that being a premie was no diferent or worse than being a member of any standard faith, like Judaism or Catholicism, say. This was her mindset when she posted the post I took issue with a few weeks ago. Katie tells me that, for now at least, she's just not interested in all this stuff. She's got lots more on her plate, it hasn't been the easiest year for her by any means and her real world issues and difficulties have drained her of whatever lingering 'juice' she had for EPO and the forum. She wanted me to assure anyone interested that, while she no longer thinks it's that unreasonable to be a premie, at least not like the one she's been talking with, she will never, in a million years, either go back to Maharaji or join any other form of organized religion. She doesn't have the 'oomph' to argue out her current ideas -- something, she knows, she's always welcome to do with me at least :) -- as it simply isn't that important to her anymore, but she's nonetheless grateful that EPO and the Forum exist and wanted me to say that on her behalf as well. We said much more and may say more again. I urged her to come back when she feels like it. I told he that it's probably less tiring ironing out some of these points of conflict than not. I also told her, as we all know, how much love and respect she has amongst all the people she's met here over time. I couldn't have said so any clearer. If she really is 'moving on', as I told her, it's a real mystery to me how some of us keep having the passion to continue here as we do and others don't. But whatever, eh? Different strokes ... The key thing for me, though, in terms of simple argument and all that, and I won't lie about this, is that at long last Katie has conceded things to me she never did before. It used to drive me crazy how conciliatory she'd be with premies. Again and again and again, she'd explain that I'd misconstrued her words, taken them wrong, etc. Again and again and again, her well-intentioned friends would just tell me to leave it. Katie was an ex, why was I picking on her? Well, Katie has now admitted to me that she really has drifted a bit beyond where I'd say the 'reasonable' line is. I wasn't imagining nothing. But rahter than stick around and fight it all out, she's honestly said it just ain't worth it to her. Call me petty, but that's important to me. She and I worked out a couple of other things too. I wish her the best and hope, that in time, she'll be back because, irony of ironies, when she wants to, no one can cut through the bullshit that engulfed us all better than she can. But she's just not into it now and that is something I can respect.

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Date: Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 01:49:08 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Jim Subject: Thanks, Jim (and Katie) Message:

And thanks for you and Katie hashing that out OFF the Forum. That's the only criticism I had of the whole discussion, which was that it was endless, just taking up space and being a huge distraction on the Forum, as it has for YEARS. And I think you would agree that you would have never gotten to the resolutioin you did on the Forum itself, with many of the other posters taking various sides. So, thanks again to both you and Katie for having the discussion you did, via email or phone or whatever, and avoiding many threads on the debate. Katie has expressed to me several times those same opinions, and I do accept them as valid. So, one thing I will say is that I guess I agree with Katie in theory, in that I think it is possible to be a premie and have it be just like any other Religion. I think it's possible, although I can't say I have ever seen it. I keep hoping that one of those premies, mythical or real, will show up here and express that opinion in public. But even if such a person does exist, the problem I have with that, is that with any other religion, people really do voice those criticisms of the Pope, the clergy, the institution, etc., and it is allowed, often encouraged and they usually don't feel they have to hide out to do it. The problem I have with Katie's premie friend is that this person is unable to express the things he or she does publicly, must remain fervently confidential and anonymous and swear Katie to secrecy about this person's identity when he or she says the liberated things that this person apparently does. So, I guess it's possible for a premie to realize how flawed Maharaji is, to say it in whispered tones to single non-premie sworn to secrecy, but that person is still having to function within the confines of a cult that so controls dissenting opinions, that this person dare not voice those honest opinions, those honest views of Maharaji in any kind of public realm, and certainly not to other premies, and especially not to Maharaji himself. And that is very sad, and I think it must be extremely difficult and extremely lonely for Katie's friend. He or she doesn't really fit into either the premie or the ex world, and cannot freely express opinions in either. Of course, I think for the vast majority of premies, even that, small, private, honest expression does not exist.

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Date: Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 00:49:16 (EST) From: such Email: banana@Catullus.org/y To: Jim Subject: Edepol! [Gosh!] Message:

Erat vectum asperrimum! [Latin-English trans: That was a very bumpy ride!] Diu hoc exspectavi. [I've waited a long time for this.] but, Non oratio alia! [Not another speech!] hoho P+L,

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Date: Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 02:01:51 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: such Subject: Such Message:

Are you a good Catholic boy you had to take Latin in High School? Remember: Gaul is divided into three parts, Caesar came, he saw and he conquered, it's hoc haec hoc, and ad demands the accusative case. Joe The Catholic boy who took Latin from Sr. Mary Ellen Francis.

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Date: Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 00:22:49 (EST) From: Barry Email: None To: Jim Subject: Cheers Jim! Nice post. Message:

It sounds like both your view points, and concerns have been adressed, and no one is left standing alone and misunderstood. Good on ya both! Hope your well, and the season is being good to you. Later jim, Bar.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 20:40:32 (EST) From: Moley Email: mpldy-warp@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: Fab stuff !! EV monitor please note. xx nt . Message:

x phew

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 19:19:09 (EST) From: Tonette Email: None To: All Subject: Gerry you may want to lock this thread Message:

The forum does not need to be filled up with the drivel I am about to write. There's more important and pressing events concerning Maharaji that deserve forum space. I am leaving but I want to give a bit of an explanation and I owe several apologies. First, I owe an apology to you, John MacGregor. What I wrote to you in reply to your thread, asking you about remorse and if you intended to do anything about Maharaji with your inside information was tasteless to say the least and was extemely UNFAIR and INSENSITIVE! I am sorry and can only hope that you will beleive me sincere and accept my apology. I don't know exactly what I was thinking at the time I wrote what I did. Do I expect you to call the cops on Maharaji? Throw yourself in front of a train with press coverage in martyrdom? Invest the rest of your days and nights dedicating yourself to trying to bring Maharaji to justice? No, that is all unreasonable. I am sorry. What I said was uncalled for. Second, I owe Jim an apology. At the risk of sounding patronizing, I would like to say to you, Jim, I admire you. To have the balls and courage to help start this forum and EPO in the first place speaks for itself. To weather the storms here, to continue to give the forum your time and attention, and to contribute in the way that you do is inspiring. What a fool Maharaji was to piss off, to dismiss I mean, so much intelligence and talent for his selfish, materialistic, and egotistic agenda. M really could of done something. Especially with the likes of you helping him. What a waste. Please accept my apology, I was unfair and wrong especially when I labeled the forum 'your baby.' Third, I want to thank everyone here. All the great souls that make the forum what it is. I would love to know how many people have seen the cult for what it is, have been able to exit and free themselves, after checking out the forum and EPO. I can personally say this forum has had a wonderful impact on me and did exit my husband. For that, I will be forever greatful. Lastly, I would like to explain a little bit, as best I can, why I am leaving. Perhaps taking a break, perhaps just lurking, I don't really know what I will do with what I think and feel. I'm leaving this option open. Maharaji's agenda is evolving in my opinion. With these most recent programs he's hinted at retiring and at the same time has been bringing back the devotional agenda. I am so discouraged, disappointed and saddened by this fact. I think the fraud may just be able to get away with what he has done. And what has he done? For starters: Allowed a child rapist, not just a molester, to live within and be protected by his organization. Willinly taken and encouraged people to give him their wealth. Trust funds, property, and money under the quise of fulfilling a promise, to his devotees, of spiritual health and personal well-being. He continues to lie and deceive. And how the US government and all it's thousands of IRS agents is able to continue EV's tax exempt status is beyond me. The US is fighting the Taliban and Al-Queta, which they have labeled as a cult for pete's sake, why they do not have the interest to investigate and prosecute Maharaji is beyond me. Maybe they have labeled M and and his cult more like a garden variey snake as opposed to a poisonious coral species. I don't know. It's frustrating. As long as M doesn't make motions as enacting another Jim Jones or David Coresh he's off the hook? Well, I would like to see Maharaji squirm like a worm on a hook. I don't want an apology from M, I want him to give it all back. His wealth would just be starters. So, here I am trying to write a good-bye to a group of people who feel somewhat like I do. I have many faults. Impatience and hypersensitivity are just a few. What Moley wrote to me, when you look at it objectively, was not worth the response in tears and anger it evoked in me. Talk about over-reacting! So, I will miss this place. I took this forum to such a serious level, became so discouraged by the injustice that M is more than likely going to get away with, and saddened, deeply, by the rape and hurt of so many people. Will it ever end? Will he ever be held accountable? Be good to each other. Remember no man is an island. Love to everyone, Tonette

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 23:20:41 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: Tonette Subject: Tonette, keep looking up Message:

I'm not just referring to the meteor showers either. How about this beauty! This "Rainbow Leonid" was photographed by Robert Reeves of San Antonio, Texas, on the night of November 17 at 11:30 UT. The photograph nicely illustrates how a fireball's color changes when different luminous mechanisms become important. The meteor changed color from green to yellow to red to blue as it flared into a bolide. The colours are caused by contributions from the green forbidden OI line emission, by yellow sodium atom emission, by the red first-positive bands of molecular nitrogen, and by metal atom emissions from iron and magnesium, respectively. The image was taken with a 50mm f/1.4 Nikor on Fuji Superia 400 film. See Jim's post. Read it. I told they were on the verge of working this through, didn't I? You weren't over reacting, BTW. Trust me on this one. You needed to work through your feelings. And you did, and I'm very happy for you. If you email me, I'll explain further. BTW, Jim has accused me of being a drama queen on the forum as well. He's right? 'So! sue me' ;) [ Graphic Link ]

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 21:08:16 (EST) From: Chuck S. Email: None To: Tonette Subject: Forum dynamics and perspective... Message:

It's been almost a year since I began posting on the forum. In that year, it's often been a roller-coaster ride emotionally. Many times I swore I would NEVER post on the forum again (that sounds funny now), or would take a break from it for a day or a week, or two, or just read for while. I found it was often helpful to take a break, and pay attention to all the wonderful things in my life I had been neglecting, and then come back to it will a fresh perspective. Often, comming back after a break, I would look at things that upset me earlier, and think they were funny, or at least nothing to be upset about. When you start posting here for the first time, I think it opens up some things inside that were repressed for so long while being a premie. I know it has made me 're-live' the entire journey of my time as a Premie, and scrutinize it like I had never done before. All sorts of things have come up for me to examine, recycle, forgive or let go. And much of that has been very emotional. I have found, over the year, that every time I give the forum a break for awhile, when I come back, I don't react as much. I feel a bit more firm and solid emotionally. Over time it seems to be less of a roller-coaster ride, and much smoother. I think it may become that way for you too, with time. But those breaks in between, the rest, it helps. We all need some quite time to work out internally the emotional stuff that get brought to the surface by spending a lot of time here. It sounds like that is where you are at too. When this place starts to make you feel upset, it's time for a break. I remember for a while sometimes thinking the forum was this, the forum was that, but eventually, I felt a lot more peace when I stopped having so many expectations, and realized that the forum was just a forum, nothing more, and nothing less. I still have to remind myself of that sometimes, when something gets me fired up -). So if you give it a break for a bit, that's great, but I hope we will see you back here again, too. I've enjoyed your posts a lot. But you want most of your time here to be interesting and enjoyable, not unpleasant or stressful. Whenever it feels liek it's too much, give it a break, for as long as feels right for you. It helps alot! Enjoy the holidays. Till next time... Love and Best Wishes, - Chuck S.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 20:21:23 (EST) From: PatD Email: None To: Tonette Subject: Love to you too Tonette Message:

I remember when I started posting you replied to one of mine with LMAO. I was very paranoid then,due to having exited rawatworld & discovering the internet both in the space of about 3 weeks. I thought at 1st it might be some sort of arcane put down,but when I eventually worked out what it meant & was quite chuffed. I disagree that what you wrote was drivel. The only important event concerning Bollix Shwar is the ongoing 24/7 recollections of his former followers whose cumulative effect we can only guess at,but to date don't seem to be doing him a lot of good. I don't think you have to apologise to anyone;let them apologise to you,if indeed aopologies are even necessary. I don't think that asking ex bigshots what they thought they were playing at all that time is rude. All the best : Pat Dorrity (aka Bin Liner)

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 19:38:22 (EST) From: Moley Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com To: Tonette Subject: Tonette - your brilliant , thank you Message:

Thank you for what you said. I really appreciate this post of yours. Why, we can fall out, and express very divergent opinions, AND IT IS STILL OK. !!! We will Not turn into rotting vegetables. Have you seen my repost of Nige's below? I reposted it cos it seemed to represent a lot of what goes on here argument-wise. Soooo different from premieland. And long may it so be. Most best to you Moley (always open to emails xx)

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 18:20:29 (EST) From: Moley reposting Nige Email: moley@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: All Subject: Anatomy of a F7 Argument Message:

This is a repost of Nige's comments (to Pullaver's post to me) on a run-in I had with Tonette (and, by default, Pullaver) over the Jim/Katie 'issue'. I was defending Jim against Tonette's vitriol. I liked this post. It could refer to any of our arguments. The point is, surely, WHAT'S WRONG WITH ARGUING? It's not the same as flaming. Or making ad hominem attacks. Our capacity to follow ideas rationally is our BEST trump card against Rawat. Use it, or lose it. >>> (Pullaver to Moley) What you are yelling (quite rudely and insensitively) at Tonette about, you yourself are doing in your post to her - telling her what to do. She has a right to voice her opinion and deserves a civil response if you disagree. >>> (Nige to Pullaver) 'My kettle's blacker than your kettle' I have noticed that Jim is occasionally less than enamoured by the content of some of Katie's posts (and dare I say, vice versa?) and will say so. Fine - why not say so in public if you are dealing with thoughts posted on a public forum? A public response is appropriate - even when not necessarily welcome. As the saying goes - or ought to: if you are not that interested, then why get involved? Meanwhile, Tonette and others are less than enchanted by Jim's tone when posting sarcastically about the non-response to his comments on the contents of that first post he disagreed with. OK, in the context of the present thread the import of that original discussion has been lost ('Gawn - and never called me Mother..!') - not to mention the opprobrium he invited upon himself for wishing to perpetuate the discussion longer than Katie would have wished. And she says so (Tonette, that is - as she is entitled to - public forum, etc. blah, blah..) Moley, along with others, meanwhile, dislikes what she sees as the preachy tone in Tonette's post. And says so - as she is entitled, this being a public urinal with a nice big wall to scribbble on, etc. Tonette then takes offense at the content of Moley's input, gets mad and demands an apology - as she is entitled to do, this being a public... etc. (Buggered if she'll get one there ;)) and apparently quits forum for a life of more worthwhile pursuits. Why does part of me sometimes see these dramatic exits as a manipulative strategy for making their perceived antagonists feel bad without having to discuss things properly? Then Mr or Mrs Pullover jumps in woollily - as all woolly jumpers should - to suggest ('yell', even?) an equivalence between Moley and Tonette in terms of preachiness.... pot, kettle, rude, insensitive...blah, blah. But how polite and sensitive would you rate Tonnette's post that Moley replied to - on a scale of 1 to -5, say? And - BTW - calling anyone 'rude and insensitive' in public is about as preachy as you can get, in my book. Only difference I can see between any of the good folk posting here lies in their willingness to actually discuss the issues in question and not freak out the moment they are challenged - switching the issue to one of tone and netique rather than content. Moley will do that. How about you? Nige who never even pretended to keep his kettle polished.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 22:14:26 (EST) From: Pullaver Email: None To: Moley reposting Nige Subject: Re: Anatomy of a F7 Argument Message:

Well, I see (above) that Tonette has posted some final observations, explanations and apologies, etc. before taking a break from the forum. However I feel that the point I was trying to raise is not moot. Namely, civility and netiquette are important for the forum to be as inclusive as possible. My comments should not be construed as being against argument or debate. Indeed, this forum should include debate naturally, but abusive, ad hominem, or mean-spirited responses should be discouraged. As should debates that are ancillary to exiting from k&m. I feel that it should be understood as well, that a good number of people who post here might be a little more fragile and sensitive than say, participants in a marxist/leninist bulletin board. Obviously, the issue for me in this instance was whether Moley crossed the line. I copy her response to Tonette: Stop preaching at Jim - what a load of complete bollocks you have written. Why do people in this place take it upon themselves, like taking on the mantle of a guru, to tell others what to do? Stop being patronising - it's nauseating, quite frankly. My main observation was that she was doing the very thing that she was criticising Tonette about. You felt as if you had to jump in and defend Moley and Moley felt that it was necessary to post your response front and center to make sure everyone reads it. And your comments to me included the following: Then Mr or Mrs Pullover jumps in woollily - as all woolly jumpers should - to suggest . . . This kind of a [snide] remark is totally unnecessary and can lead to enmities which are not appropos to, or assisting in, the exiting process. We all have egos and (unfortunately) part and parcel of discussing things back and forth here in a forum is the one-up-manship that will invariably occur when differences of opinion manifest. Frankly I'm not here for the thrust and parry between fellow x's, and be assured that it is an impediment for new posters and can lead insecure or fencesitting people to be disinclined to post and participate for fear of being personally attacked or humiliated. I wish to also make clear that I was not wading into the Jim and Katie argument at all in my response to Moley. I thoroughly understand the issues at stake in that thread and for the record, empathize with Jim's indignation re the Glasser incident. However, I also understand Katie's concern about a 'kinder, gentler' forum for the above-stated reasons. Pullaver who likes his pot and on occasion to get his kettle polished

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 19:58:59 (EST) From: Tonette Email: None To: Moley reposting Nige Subject: It's okay, I over-reacted Message:

Please don't let this bother you Moley. How could you know that you just happened to be front and center for the 'straw that broke the camel's back' syndrome happened. Coincidentially, I just wrote a thread above that helps, I hope explain, where I am at with the forum. You did nothing wrong Moley. And I am so sorry if you end up taking any heat for the reason I am leaving because it has nothing to do with either you or Jim and Katie's debate really. I have always had a hard time with this forum with it's format of non-verbal communication. From day one. God, I hope you can understand, I hope I can explain, I hope the forum knows, that there are no hard feelings, especially between you and me. I need a break. It's a good thing. To you Moley, many laughs you have bestowed, Love, Tonette

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 20:29:14 (EST) From: Moley Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com To: Tonette Subject: Tonette - luv and email if yer like- EV monitor NB Message:

I just lost my reply to you when to tried to post. The gist being that I think it is great that we can fall out and make up and NOt turn into rotting veg - the real world not premielalaland. Real life ... I think I said to you to check out Nige's repost below, along the same lines. Its words but that's wot we got... and even if we fall out - we're REAL and we can handle it Lotsa luv

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 20:26:33 (EST) From: Jim Email: None To: Tonette Subject: Before you go ....... Message:

Tonette, Care to talk sometime. Call me? (250) 360-1040 Jim

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 18:16:41 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: All Subject: Response to EPO -- McDuck's Comments Message:

In a thread down below, I asked Michaed McDonald (McDuck) to tell us about his premie history. I didn't realize that he had already done that on Forum V, but he gave a great rendition of how in got into, and out of, the cult. Anyhow, I wanted to bring up this subject and ask if Michael can shed any more light on it. In particular, I was intrigued when Michael said the following: Apart from donating money, my role in Elan Vital was minimal until 1999, when I was 'recruited' to the PR team because of my professional expertise. I spent a good deal of time contributing to press kits and website FAQs, which have always been diluted by political correctness, and some time writing historical pieces for a website - intended as an intelligent counter to ex-premie.org - which seems never to have materialised. I found the PR guys excellent to work with and I wish them all long and happy lives, but perhaps promoting a product which has fewer anomalies and moral dilemmas attached to it. Who recruited you? Were you given any indication that M was aware of, or approved of this? Who are the PR guys you were working with? Was the goal to write a history of M's involvement in the West and 'explain' things like the ashrams, the Lord of the Universe, darshan, etc.? Was it stated that it was being done specifically as a response, or alternative to EPO? What kind of things were you contributing to Press Kits and FAQs? Michael explained further: I was writing historical overviews of each decade since the 1950s - and I mean the larger world, not Mr Rawat's milieu - which would be presented as a backdrop to the phenomenon of Mr Rawat. I portrayed the last half of the last century as a rollercoaster ride, and it certainly is if you have a bit of a look at it. Others were writing on the Rawat phenomenon itself. Some of the articles made critical judgements. Who were writing the 'Rawat phenomenon?' Do you mean there were 'critical judgments' of things Maharaji had said/done? In what way? Obviously, those never made it to the light of day, as one would expect. How 'critical' were they and what 'judgments' were made? Continuing: It was all reasonably intelligent, which is maybe why the website never emerged. Maybe it-aint-so was the preferred option but I don't know for sure as I'd left PR by the time I got to the 80s in my overview. You mean there was a somewhat objective analysis and description of M's past? Did it address any of the many specific allegations on EPO? Most of these efforts had to do the rounds of national contacts and other important people as well as the PR team, and the strength of the language was gradually diluted into bureaucratese. It's a wonder those FAQs on the websites ever appeared at all! I gather that the work product got sent to so many people and so many changes were made that they lost all the 'intelligent' and 'critical' elements. Is that what you mean? Obviously, when the FAQs and the Press Kit on the EV website finally got produced, which I think was in July, 2000, they no longer were 'intelligent.' They became in many instances outright fabrications, especially in regard to M's claims to divinity, the ashrams, the entire period 1976-1985, and the whole issue of the devotional path. This wasn't very "intelligent" because even devout premies knew they were false, and many were very embarrassed by them, just as many are embarrassed by enjoyinglife.org. Also, I couldn't figure out who the PR genius was who set up a whole section of the website to try to prove that it wasn't a cult. My Dad used to say that anybody who has to try to prove they arent anti-semitic, probably is. The same applies to anybody who somebody trying to prove they aren't in a cult. Same thing applies to trying to say M DIDN'T claim to be God. For one thing, it just adds publicity to the fact there is controversy about that, and that kind of allegation doesn't just come out of nowhere. I was actually quite surprised that there was any attempt to respond to EPO. I thought M would just try to ignore us, as he usually did to all his critics. I remember thinking, when I saw those FAQs, that the Rock of Gibraltar had just cracked, and I thought it was a great sign, because it would cause more discussion, which I believed was to everyones' benefit, except maybe for M himself. Do you have any idea who eventually wrote those things -- the 'FAQS'and the "Press Kit" -- and whether M was involved? Do you think that those same 'PR' people were involved in 'It Ain't So' and 'Please Consider This?' The Elan Vital FAQs and Press Kit, as well as the Press Releases, ended up giving us lots of grist for discussion, as did those other two websites, but they are all gone now, including the FAQs and Press Kit on EV, and removed in a very abrupt fashion, ESPECIALLY Please Consider This. Any idea about the change in strategy, particularly the EV sites? Also, anything more on this general subject is interesting to me, including how anything gets decided about how M or anything about him is presented. It appears to be a very constipated process. I know John has touched on this some, but how do things get decided in the Maharaji world? Thanks Michael. Your comments are very valuable and intersting. Also, if anyone reading has any more information on this, please post or email. Thanks.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 18:25:50 (EST) From: Joe Email: kevjo@mindspring.com To: Joe Subject: Email Message:

thanks.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:40:03 (EST) From: cq Email: None To: All Subject: Light diversion - and a mindblower Message:

Click here http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/PR/96/01/HDF.mpg (or copy and paste, if my HTML skills are as bad as I've just proved on the Anything Goes forum). [ Graphic Link ]

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:42:45 (EST) From: cq Email: None To: cq Subject: oops, forgot to mention - Message:

that's a scale version animation that ends in an image from the Hubble telescope's Deep Field imaging. Explanation here: http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=louella&id=9116.1397603149587

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:42:32 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: All Subject: International Conference Management Message:

All you sleuths can anyone find out more about this company? I got this email from EV today: Many subscribers have written asking for information about their registration (confirmations etc.) for the event in Miami. Unfortunately, we are not able to answer registration queries sent to the Elan Vital Mailing lists. The company handling the registrations is International Conference Management in Bethesda, Md. EV Mailing list team.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 23:15:09 (EST) From: Pullaver Email: None To: PatC Subject: Re: International Conference Management Message:

Attached is their website. [ International Conference Management ]

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 22:19:22 (EST) From: Tonette Email: None To: PatC Subject: I'm leaving, I have left, however... Message:

Bethesda, MD is 2 miles from me. Do you happen to have an address? Never-the-less, I do have a phone book! Do you have a phone number? I WILL go visit. Is the name exactly International Conferance Management? I'm in Bethesda all the time, after all, the video store is there, the book store, grocery and the filtered water store. I'll see what I can do. At least go visit. This definately calls for a visit. Post what else you know and I promised myself I was leaving! I'll tell what I find out. I am leaving but this is something maybe I can help with. What do you think they will do when they find out they are bedding for business a cult? Knowing Bethesda, it's probably a bunch of yuppies who only care about turning a buck. But we will see. I'm taking an ex with me. John, are you reading here, wanna have some fun? I am leaving, I wrote my swan song but this is too tempting! Regards, Tonette

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 17:21:04 (EST) From: Vicki Email: None To: PatC Subject: Re: International Conference Management Message:

Right before I found EPO, I was up for a 'Participation' job with Elan Vital. It entailed helping to build a substantial data base of places around the US that could host an event, of varying sizes. Also, they wanted someone to help build into this database all pertinent info about that city, as in directions, hotels, restaurants, airports, shuttles, etc etc etc. I remember getting an odd idea that this was fairly extensive just so M could call an event at a moments notice, since he hardly goes anywhere on a moments notice. So the thought crossed my mind that this same information gotten from free Participation labor, could be parlayed into a company that coordinates conventions, etc. The hoops and interviews for that job were ridiculous. It was like getting interviewed for a CEO position. I was getting really annoyed and was about to tell them to keep their crummy participation job when I was called. 'You can have it if you still want it' was how it was put. It was so contradictory in tone compared to the upbeat interview calls. If this is a shell for M and his little friends, it's a good way to siphon off premie labor, which is all participation is.

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Date: Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 00:07:51 (EST) From: suchabanana Email: banana@SPQR.it To: Vicki Subject: yeah, premies put in huge hours Message:

researching all that stuff meticulously in each city -- to be used only for non-profit rugu cult org [EVI] purposes -- the community event info was NOT intended to be farmed out for commercial purposes. If people had had any idea that they were being used to set up another business to profit someone else, most would have insisted on getting paid for their professional time - or said 'NO way, Jose!' I know what I would have said, upon hearing such tidings: 'Demonstra mihi semitam ad vomitorium, sis?' [trans: 'Can you show me the way to the vomitorium?!' followed by: 'Nonne ille Imperator paululum cruentum est?' [That Emperor's a bit bloodthirsty isn't he?], and concluding with: 'Non plus cerebrorum elixorum, gratias.' [No more boiled brains, thanks!!'] oh well: 'Veni, vidi, vomui' [I came, I saw, I threw up!] Vale [ciao], da lil swami

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 19:22:13 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: Vicki Subject: This is important!!!! Message:

Vicki's post points to the modern way premies' free labor is used to make money for Maharaji. The idea that people running businesses are incorporating free premie labor into their business plans is, quite frankly, sick. Let's end this type of participation, what do you say, Prempal? John.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:22:17 (EST) From: suchabanana Email: banana@industrial_strength_D-Con.com To: PatC Subject: 'industrial strength' Conference Management Message:

International Conference Management: '...an industrial strength conference management web solution that you can rent by the month. Conference.com brings the same powerful features to the web that made our client/server applications a benchmark for the industry.  Private label features allow you to preserve your identity while taking advantage of this powerful engine...   ...It’s time to retool to meet your competitors’ challenges and the rising expectations of your attendees.'!!!! http://www.conference.com/abouticm.html [ http://www.conference.com/abouticm.html ]

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 22:40:31 (EST) From: Inside Edition Email: None To: suchabanana Subject: Remember Jim Vuko anyone? Message:

Jim Vuko, Vice President - International Conference Management!

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Date: Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 01:28:20 (EST) From: Joe Email: None To: Inside Edition Subject: Yes, Jim Vuko? Message:

Jim Vuko was one of the Honchos as 'Travel Lite' the cult travel agency, the successor in interest to AIITA. Joe Anctil was head of both.

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Date: Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 00:13:50 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: Inside Edition Subject: Sounds very familiar [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 00:12:30 (EST) From: Didn't he Email: None To: Inside Edition Subject: wear jumpsuits a lot? ~) ~) [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 17:46:08 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: suchabanana Subject: For 'industrial strength' church ladies [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:14:02 (EST) From: cq Email: None To: PatC Subject: 16 results here, Pat Message:

16 results here Pat. Haven't had time to check them all (and this is a 'many hands make light work' scenario, not 'too many cooks')!

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:21:41 (EST) From: cq Email: None To: cq Subject: You're right.& I should 'refresh' more often(nt) Message:

You're right. And I should 'refresh' more often (nt)

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:34:50 (EST) From: cq Email: None To: cq Subject: (not to mention target practice) nt Message:

(not to mention target practice) nt

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:21:36 (EST) From: link # 11 Email: None To: cq Subject: is the same Message:

Steve Adler International Conference Management 4853 Cordell Ave., 16th Floor, PH#1 Bethesda, MD 20814 USA fax 301-913-5452 sadler@conference.com

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:04:43 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: link # 11 Subject: Steve Adler is still around? [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 16:55:16 (EST) From: Vicki Email: None To: Deborah Subject: Re: Steve Adler is still around? Message:

Is he a premie?

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 17:37:24 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: Vicki Subject: Think so Message:

I think he's the guy that used to run the premie airline Travel company that housed and flew premies for years to festival. I rec'd K in '80 and they had been around for years but closed down about a '81. It was on Lincoln Square (gee-it all blurs) in Miami Beach. They would also go the hotels on Collins Ave and assign the rooms. A guy I knew, Tom Molone, worked there as well.

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Date: Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 00:15:29 (EST) From: Veg-o-matic Email: None To: Deborah Subject: Re: Think so Message:

Sure he's not this guy? Steve 'Mr. Raw' Adler

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 23:43:36 (EST) From: Inside Edition Email: None To: Deborah Subject: Aitta Travel - John Davis? (nt) Message:

[nt]

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Date: Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 00:11:08 (EST) From: Deobrah Email: None To: Inside Edition Subject: Re: Aitta Travel sounds right Message:

But John Davis doesn't. I think it WAS Steve Adler. Do you remember Tom Malone? He travelled around the world to programs as a perk for having working there. I knew Tom before I was a premie. I was astonished that they could all be following Maha. Of course, not it makes sense :p DUH!

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:15:08 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: Deborah Subject: Notice website says NOTHING Message:

Just a picture of threee Hungarian women. No information. No picture of the people who are operating out of Bethseda. Why? Don't they want to pay their taxes? Don't they want to be accountable for anything? Rhetorical questions.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:27:30 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Deborah Subject: Re: Notice website says NOTHING Message:

This is strange. At the ''Invitation Programs'' or whatever they called them they requested CASH$$$$$US. I wonder what this company is charging EV or ??? to handle their conferences. And is it CASH ONLY? How many companies deep does it take to make a cult even more secret? Rhetorical question. :)

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:17:18 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: cq Subject: It's # 10 but link is broken [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:58:46 (EST) From: Nick Danger, Third Eye Email: None To: PatC Subject: Re: International Conference Management Message:

Here you go. [ Conference Management International ]

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:09:28 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Nick Danger, Third Eye Subject: and the Whois info... Message:

[ Whois info ]

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:09:17 (EST) From: cq Email: None To: All Subject: FA - please read Message:

Gerry, (or whoever's FAing at the moment) I've just gotton online after work (and a visit to the dentist). I posted a thread last night and would like to read the posts responding to it. However, it appears that, for some reason unknown to me, the thread is not only locked but NO POSTS IN IT CAN BE READ! What's up?

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:38:54 (EST) From: PatC (Asst FAb) Email: None To: cq Subject: Which thread? Message:

I thought Gerry may have locked a thread but I did not find any locked threads.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:57:22 (EST) From: cq Email: None To: PatC (Asst FAb) Subject: Goggles on ... Message:

Hi Pat Which thread? Time to dig out your reading specs, dear. (it's the one 6 down with the lock symbol at the front of it, titled 'So just WHO is responsible for this???') http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=gl&id=5763.7773747011126

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:12:53 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: cq Subject: Re: Goggles on ... Message:

But I have only had one cup of tea so far this morning, Chris. Also I can still read the messages and you said you could not.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:20:14 (EST) From: cq Email: quartus@postmaster.co.uk To: PatC Subject: Re: Goggles on ... Message:

Aha! you can read them? Unfortunately for me (online at Durham University), the locking process appears to render them invisible. Maybe the firewall causes a problem? In the circumstances, perhaps you'd be good enough to email the responses to me at the address attached? (I haven't seen any of them yet). And as to the locking of the thread - maybe Gerry's post might go some of the way towards an explanation. Naturally, I'd like one.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:22:44 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: cq Subject: Hey, cq...re: locked thread Message:

I was unable to read the locked thread with Netscape, but in IE, I was. Happens with netscape sometimes...

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:11:17 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: cq Subject: I emailed them to you [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 06:21:25 (EST) From: berni Email: bernee@flashmail.com To: All Subject: Tainted Love Message:

Hi peeps, I was going to post something with the heading 'missing Maharaji' or something ( at least people might read it in the chance of a good flame ) and then explaining that I didn't really miss him, but missed the good times going to those festivals and socialising with all the premies. However chatting with Loaf and thinking back I am not sure that I miss as much of it as I thought. I know what you mean Loafie when you say 'I AM GLAD that I had a blast following M round the world.. and going to places I wouldnt otherwise have made it to.. Glad that I met some wonderful premies and travelled by plain, train and automobile as one of the travelling bandidos.. it was an inspiring and wonderful time of my life. .... it was as close to heaven as I could have imagined' I remember those feelings too; it was amazing to think that you were part of such a cosmic happening as the creator/preserver/destroyer inviting you to help him/her/it save the universe - but that was only for a few hours on a good day ( not to mention being as unreal as being high on drugs ). The whole blissfull experience thing was tainted with trying to follow the rules e.g. no chit-chat, constantly remember holy name, no wasting time on anything but service satsang and meditation - there was no room for fun or self expression, and it was definitely detrimental in forming normal relationships with your fellow human beings. You had to be operating within premie guidelines ( or at least giving the appearance of doing so ). If we found ourselves enjoying a film or a good meal then we were 'in our heads' - unless we could somehow justify it to ourselves that it somehow related to 'the path of knowledge'. Constantly trying to understand what the ever-changing rules were was enough to stress anyone. The worst thing was that the fun was dying to come through - meeting all those great people and travelling to those countries would have been perfect if not as a member of a religious cult. If only Maharji had been truly non-religious and only trying to get people together to inspire each other rather than get inspired by him. Then we could have just had a good time on a genuine journey of self discovery and fulfillment. I guess there have been movements like that but we are all such suckers for a charismatic? leader offering eternal bliss. berni

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 06:51:20 (EST) From: Loaf Email: None To: berni Subject: Re: Tainted Love Message:

I remeber all the 'being in your head' stuff.. and that was horrible, but as I had come to K and M from a very discipling, intense, guilt ridden yoga/meditation school... It didnt worry me too much... especially as (for me) by the time the honeymoon new premie period was wearing off.. i was just too happy to care too much and Knowledge lite was the order of the day. Certainly by the mid/late 80s his message had changed to being very easy going.. practice when its best for you... dont stress about it... blahh blah So, all in all I missed out on the heavy shit. I read it though... and listened to those beautifully named PMTs for hours, in fact for years I thought M's voice had a natural 1 second echo.. 'So... dear premies.... here we are again... in Rome....' I am probably blamking out a lot of the shit... but not for propogational reasons.. just cos i want to keep hold of my own feelings. I still like them.. and I dont want to forget why I got involved in the whole thing at the start... cos it felt right.. just as being an ex feels right to me now. Its all about survival. Loafie x

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:19:00 (EST) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: All Subject: My one year anniversary here today Message:

It has been exactly one year today since I discovered the forum and made my first post. It was a 29 year long and winding road that got me here, not all bad road, there were good times shared and fond memories made along the path. I still have those, but euphoric recall is no reason to stay trapped forever in a spiral of deception. The road I traveled in on was a fairy tale just like in the Wizard of OZ, only I just didn't know it then. I did not even know that I had a chance an option of finding my way out of the fairy tale. I am thankful for the day I discovered that the yellow brick road of premiedom has an accessible off ramp and it is called the internet via EPO and the Forum. I know that m says you can get out any time, just walk away, he also says we are not in a cult as well. He can call it what he wants but once throughly embedded in the juju journey it is not quite so simple as all of that for some of us to just abruptly leave it behind. It takes serious effort and work to reclaim ones soul and independence, fearless self examination and objective review of important facts pertinent to m and the cult to break free. Information that ordinarily would not be available were it not for the help and support of other former cult members who have survived the ordeal and/or process of exiting. There is no other place that I know of today where this can be accomplished quite so throughly as right here. It worked for me anyway, and it is a hell of a lot cheaper than theraphy. I am just glad that I showed up here when I did, at first as a cult apologist, now today as a complete and committed carrier of the cult free message. Many thanks to all of the contributors here who with your honest, intelligent and inspired dialouge have helped me to overcome what would have surely been a lifelong affliction affiliated with a false master and cult. You have made this last year one of the most remarkable and productive periods of my life, and this is just the beginning, I hope that we will share many more years of awakening together. Many Thanks Brian Smith

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:29:18 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: Thank you, too Brian [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 21:05:57 (EST) From: DeProGramAnandJi Email: jsflynn@aol.com To: Deborah Subject: Re: Thank you, too Brian Message:

GREAT POST WELL SPOKEN

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:34:11 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Deborah Subject: To: Brian... Message:

Congratulations! Gawd, that year when by fast, don't you think? I just wanted to pipe in here to tell you how much I enjoy your input and welcome you to your second year of real living. It gets better and better. Love, Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:48:14 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: It was a very good year Message:

I met you and a bunch of other wonderful people whom I hope to know for many more years.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 09:25:24 (EST) From: wolfie Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: it means what it says Message:

Hi, it sounds so differnet to that kind of thankfullness premies express to M. Here it is more real, not superficial.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 08:29:34 (EST) From: JS Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: nice heart felt post, Brian... Message:

Brian- In many ways my journey and quite a few others have occurred at the same time as yours, and been quite similar to yours as well. EPO was certainly the major factor for me, along with the time being right, and one too many drips locally from the 'industrial strength church ladies' in my community. Also, being able for the first time to really be able to listen objectively to m's talks, and realize how, to my surprise, so much of them were filled with strategic one liners to squelch, rather than address, peoples sincere questions. I finally began to see how, contrary to my belief that m just 'spoke the truth' (what we used to call satsang), his rambling talks were filled with little zingers to keep the premies in line, marginalize his critics,encourage followers to NOT listen to their hearts (just the heart that follows him),imply that he was the lord through coded words and messages,and deny any responsibility for his irresponsible past. It really is great to be able to speak honestly about all of this as we all deconstruct the past with m, and hopefully learn a lot about ourselves along the way. Thanks for your posts. I am sure they have been helpful to many people in similar situations. They have been for me. Happy Holidays, Jim S.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:57:17 (EST) From: Carl Email: None To: JS Subject: You captured it: Rawatism in a nutshell Message:

This is a great summary of Rawatism: 'his rambling talks were filled with little zingers to keep the premies in line, marginalize his critics, encourage followers to NOT listen to their hearts (just the heart that follows him), imply that he was the lord through coded words and messages, and deny any responsibility for his irresponsible past.' Yep, all for the price of your discerning mind, your time and your money. Such a deal. Cult-free for the rest of one's days is a daily celebration. Happy anniversary to all of us. Best wishes, Carl

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:38:15 (EST) From: Loaf Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: awww.... Message:

woo hoo ! Hooorah ! Yipeeeee ! Let the mighty cannon be sounded ! Unfurl the flags,,, and let the people see the mirth engine as it rises out of the rubble on its inflated bladders... War is over ! Peace has broken out ! Sorry... getting carried away there.... I can feel a baby hurling festival coming on... Wheel the baby Hurling machines in place.... load the babies... aim them at the pyramid of flowers... And Hurl ! What fun.. nice to see you here brian. I would nominate you for Satguru of the week.. but last time we tried that (it was magiclara on recent exes) all hell broke loose in America... so I think it better if we just pranam towards an piece of fruit or summink. Hee hee Loafie (lost the plot) Hooorah !

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:11:27 (EST) From: Loaf Email: None To: All Subject: Embarrassment Message:

Something has just struck me whilst reading the festivals thread below..... and I have a sneaking suspicion that maharaji would agree with me ! So much of the god-awful tatty kitch stuff that went on was a 1970s thing.... Dont you think the 70s were just plain embarrassing ? The 60s had more of an integrity about it somehow, but the 70s strike me now as a decade that went to seed.. overdone, over blown...over BIG It was a strange decade of poly-cotton, huge lapels, big hair, porn video mustaches (and that was the house mothers !) flares.... shudder ! The Festivals at Kissimmee and orlando and their ilk were so much a product of their time... I wonder if the people who were around pre Knowledge Lite (ie the 70s) have a much harder time with some of this stuff.. Deborah asked me below if I felt ashamed of being in a cult.. But it wasnt a cult (to me) when I was in it... its only become a cult since I left. I am just lucky I guess that I never wore a HUUUUGE badge and was never filmed. THAT would be embarrassing, to see myself there with a horrificly beautific expression on my face... (((((Shudder))))) I think the 70s were embarrassing though. why I put this in its own thread.. i dont know... bye

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:27:22 (EST) From: Ben Lurking Email: None To: Loaf Subject: It was a cult Message:

I remember when Ted Patrick was grabbing and de-programing people. I also remember after Jonestown either MD or someone else giving Denver premies 'advice' on how we weren't a cult in a community or hq meeting so we could 'deal' with our parents and friends. Of course we were in a cult.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:20:46 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Loaf Subject: Bellbottoms and guru buttons Message:

''I am just lucky I guess that I never wore a HUUUUGE badge and was never filmed. THAT would be embarrassing, to see myself there with a horrificly beautific expression on my face... (((((Shudder)))))'' Couldn't agree more, Loafie.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 11:27:08 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: PatC Subject: I wore guru necklaces())())()) NT Message:

nnnn

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 13:53:26 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Guru necklaces? Message:

What the hell were those? Only in America type thingies?

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:54:59 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: PatC Subject: Re: Guru necklaces?? Message:

Oh there were all kinds of necklaces....some we bought, some we made ourselves. Guys wore them too. I still have one, you want it? It's a macramed necklace with a flat stone that has his face decoupaged onto it. Yes, the 70s were wild LOL!

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 21:16:19 (EST) From: dEpROgRAmANanDjI Email: jsflynn@aol.com To: Cynthia Subject: Re: Guru necklaces? Message:

Thats funny but i have to disagree it's nostalgia of that era that I remeber that most fondly. Like Brian said in another post euphoric recall, remembering the good times while repressing my awareness of the bad. Still I like the bell bottoms, the long hair, incense flowers, yoga and tie-die. M did not however he all his new recruits cut their hair and dress in second hand suits remember? To be his little corporate DLM clones. So we wouldn't freak the parents out and so he could help to persuade them that he was helping us to escape the drug culture.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:14:44 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Re: Guru necklaces? No thanks Message:

When one of the premies died here a few years ago I inherited all her divine tchotchas - buttons, notepaper, wallets etc all with His Holeyness' image on them. I quickly gave them to our local hippie hindu premie. Shudder.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:31:17 (EST) From: Cynthia Email: None To: PatC Subject: Re: Guru necklaces? No thanks Message:

Well, I was just kidding, Pat...I don't even know why I keep these things. Evidence, maybe. I also have many items that his fatso hands actually touched...they were industrial strength divine tchotchas to me at the time. And, I have his finger prints on one...LOL! Love, Cynthia, never a ''button wearing type''

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 15:53:05 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: I kept a Xmas card from Rawat for... Message:

...25 years because it was addressed to me personally (when I was CC in Durban) and ''signed'' by His Holeyness himself (or so I thought - probably auto-signature machine.) I threw it out a year ago when I began to rid myself of all divine tchotchkas.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 01:52:30 (EST) From: suchabanana Email: banana@Santa.North_Pole.arc/tic To: All Subject: letters to Santa [partially ot] Message:

Folks, well it's that time of year again, and Santa, the missus, and all the elves are way over-extended right now. Also, Santa's just finishing flight training on his new Gulfstream sleigh, and lots of elves have been literally slaving night and day to make it finally acceptable to his high standards. So, in the absence of someone like Sally Reeder, I was requested to answer a sack of Santa's letters and respond to some of his more delusional wishful devotees. Santa did give some guidelines, however. He thought we should try a lil' honesty this year, rather than stringing some of these poor kids along and getting their hopes up falsely -- only to let them down once again and eventually turn them into a bunch of rotten cynical apostate eX-mas 'loosers'. Anyway, here are a few samples: Dear Santa I wud like a kool toy space ranjur fer Xmas. Iv ben a gud boy all yeer. Yer Frend, BiLLy Dear Billy, Nice spelling. You're on your way to a career in lawn care. How about I send you a freaking book so you can learn to read and write? I'm giving your older brother the space ranger. At least HE can spell! Santa Dear Santa, I have been a good girl all year, and the only thing I ask for is peace and joy in the world for everybody! Love, Sarah Dear Sarah, Your parents smoked pot when they had you, didn't they? Santa Dear Santa, I don't know if you can do this, but for Christmas, I'd like for my mommy and daddy to get back together. Please see what you can do. Love, Teddy Dear Teddy, Look, your dad's banging the babysitter like a screen door in a hurricane. Do you think he's gonna give that up to come back to your frigid mom, who rides his ass constantly? It's time to give up that dream. Let me get you some nice Legos instead. Santa Dear Santa, I left milk and cookies for you under the tree, and I left carrots for your reindeer outside the back door. Love, Susan Dear Susan, Milk gives me the runs and carrots make the deer fart in my face when riding in the sleigh. You want to do me a favor? Leave me a bottle of scotch. Santa Dear Santa, What do you do the other 364 days of the year? Are you busy making toys? Your friend, Thomas Dear Thomas, All the toys are made in China. I have a condo in Vegas, where I spend most of my time making low-budget porno films. I unwind by drinking myself silly and squeezing the asses of cocktail waitresses while losing money at the blackjack table. Hey, you wanted to know. Santa Dear Santa, Do you see us when we're sleeping, do you really know when we're awake, like in the song? Love, Jessica Dear Jessica, Are you really that gullible? Good luck in whatever you do. I'm skipping your house. Santa Dear Santa, I really really want a puppy this year. Please please please PLEASE PLEASE could I have one? Timmy Timmy, That whiney begging sh!t may work with your folks, but that crap doesn't work with me. You're getting a sweater again. Santa Dearest Santa, We don't have a chimney in our house, how do you get into our home? Love, Marky Mark, First, stop calling yourself 'Marky', that's why you're getting your ass whipped at school. Second, you don't live in a house, you live in a low-rent apartment complex. Third, I get inside your pad just like all the burglars do -- through your bedroom window. Sweet Dreams, Santa -- Merry Mithrasmas -- hohoho! Peace and lentils, da lil swami j. suchabanana

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Date: Sat, Dec 08, 2001 at 01:32:54 (EST) From: Wolf Blitzer Email: None To: suchabanana Subject: ho-larious (nt) Message:

shmurfle

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 22:56:10 (EST) From: SC Email: None To: All Subject: Cat and I are finished! Message:

I had a team of willing pwk doing all night service reading and transcribing every post in the thread of Jim's err...'apology' to Katie. The conclusion was already inevitable after only half were printed out for the committee to read. Cat and I are finished, we cannot sum up this forum any better for the viewers than several people in the groundbreaking thread already have. The power of the message is much greater having come from 'non troll' computer terminals and we thank those people brave and honest enough to make their words and feelings known to the general cyberpublic. It seems Catstrodamus has once again been proved correct in his predictions (LG late Nov). The Committee will be assembling, collating and printing the majority of posts in this historical thread and circulating the result as a newsletter amongst the worldwide pwk community so that they can rest easy and sleep safely in their beds knowing that the storm of hate has abated and now flutters as a gentle breeze whistling through the willows overlooking the ambling river below the windowsill of time on which we sit. Salutations to all great souls who fight for their truth!

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:41:46 (EST) From: cq Email: None To: SC Subject: This MUST be another cult, no? Message:

It's got all the hallmarks - exes always backing each other up and never disagreeing? PS, sarcasm doesn't always travel well via the written word, so, to make it clear, here's a big ;)

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:48:52 (EST) From: JohnT Email: None To: SC Subject: David Roupell is finished alright! Message:

Yes David, You are finished alright. It's all just fluff and bluff with you, just lies and maya as it is with your fraudulent god-in-a-bod Rawat. You dare not do a damn thing because you cannot be sure that things you have said here (your abuses; your cyberstalking; your filthy misogyny; and your depraved impersonations) -- you cannot be sure that these, now traced to you, will not surface to utterly discredit anything you have to say. It is funny, very funny, but in that respect you are just like your fake friend in the head, Prempal Rawat of Malibu, the fraudulent messiah. Like him, you are a man who has discredited himself by his own words and conduct. Now you and he count for nothing. You'll see. JohnT - never a premie

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:54:02 (EST) From: The Cat Email: None To: JohnT Subject: Re: David Roupell is finished alright! Message:

Aw gee John . That is just so so heavy. Have you ever thought of having a colonic irrigation...

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:01:33 (EST) From: JohnT Email: None To: The Cat Subject: You too! Message:

No Pussy, I know you'd only want the irrigation as charnamarit, now you've realised what a fool I've helped make of your Master. JohnT - never a premie

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 06:23:24 (EST) From: CW Email: None To: JohnT Subject: Re: You too! Message:

I'm on vacation Dickhead.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 00:14:51 (EST) From: Tami Sunshine Rainbow Email: None To: SC Subject: Yu tel them Message:

Thanks, SC, Thos x-primis ar so wikked and meen, ispecali Jim. Bee sur to send mi a cupi uv yur noosleter. It wilbee gud and so sincronized. Yu wil sho them. Itz ubut tym. Thos x-primis cunt hirt Mirage. HAHAHAHAH.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 00:24:45 (EST) From: Pauline Premie Email: None To: Tami Sunshine Rainbow Subject: You can say that again Tami Message:

It's just so beautiful to see premies like SC really exposing the hate that these ex-premies sadly wallow in every second of their miserable existences. They just don't have that understanding or that experience, and you can just see them rot in their own juices. SC really showed them this time. Disagreement among the ex-premies! Finally the smoking gun! SC is just so intelligent and it shows. Yes, black and white proof that these monmots disagree among themselves, something PWKs never do, who are experiencing the most supreme love, which, while it has not been the vibration that is God since 1986, is the supreme breath of happiness, flying right up their noses. They are always just so loving to each other, because of that love, that truth, that peace, that experience and that gift, which is that breath, which is that life, and that gratitude we feel for Maharaji for giving us the experience of that appreciation. I was so fortunate to go to the Appointment Event in Los Angeles recently. It went on for two hours, and it was so beautiful, but I really had to go to the bathroom, but the grace of Maharaji was with me, and just like in New York a few years ago, when Maharaji left, and although I knocked over David Smith trying to get out of the hall, I was fortunate to find a potted plant in the entrance area and by his grace I did not wet my pants. I do think I splattered some onto the Pascottos, and maybe on to the big-eating Frenchman, as I squatted in the plant though, and for that I am truly sorry, but we were all blissed out so no one cared. They did escort me out of the place, but they weren't mean about it.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 06:39:22 (EST) From: Loaf Email: None To: Pauline Premie Subject: my fave quote Message:

as recounted by the ever faithful Bryn davies... spoken by an Indian type mahatma circa 1974 in response to a query... 'By Grace of Almighty Lord, in Palace of Peace there are Many Toilets' It says it all doesnt it ! Loafie (in that rhythm which is F7)

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 08:49:48 (EST) From: Jethro Email: None To: Loaf Subject: Let it all flow Message:

You reminded me of the time Irene Hall was speaking at Kensington new Town Hall. She was describing that wonderful experience when she said that she went to the loo and that experience just began to flow. She really didn't get it when people started to laugh. Of course we all really undrestood that it was Maharaji coming thru her.......she was an initiator(or instructor) then so it must have been him!!! Hmmm think I'd better go now. Jethro PS ever seen 'Erik the Viking', a lesser kniow Monte Python film?

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 10:15:28 (EST) From: Loaf Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Re: Let it all flow Message:

Yes I did see Eric the Viking once... many years ago... cant remember much about it. Irene Hall and her double entendres definitely rings a bell.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 12:21:26 (EST) From: Joe Email: kevjo@mindspring.com To: Loaf Subject: How about..... Message:

A couple of months after a progam in the Pocono Mtns of Pennsylvania M had a 'birthday party' at the Shriners Auditorium in LA. One of the Initiators, might have been Brian McDermott said: 'Maharaji really touched me deep in the Poconos, and I know he will touch me deep in other places as well.' I cracked up so much I had to leave the hall. Attention Danny Munter: Do you remember, I was sitting next to you in the hall at the time? Must have been December, 1977. You thought it was funny, too. Are you an EV Monitor of the Forum now? Email me in between stock trades and we can talk. Joe

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 00:34:40 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: Pauline Premie Subject: You're fuckin hilarious Message:

I'm so gald they weren't mean about it! ha ha ha ha ha Pauline, you had me worried about your true gender when you mentioned leaking in the potted plants but iWhew! you mentioned squatting, and my worst fears were relieved. I'm also relieved to hear about your relieving story, as well.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 23:02:43 (EST) From: McDuck Email: None To: SC Subject: Re: Cat and I are finished! Message:

So David, you'll be adhering to your wisdom expressed on LG: 'So many people I know believe that ignoring the internet chatrooms is the best way. Not so much to make them go away but so that we can have a super time in our lives without the headache of worry over those who choose a different path.'?

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 20:36:55 (EST) From: SC Email: None To: McDuck Subject: Aw comon McDuck! Message:

You know I only follow orders. And you know they're constantly changing. So don't hold me accountable. I certainly don't ! It's my belief that genuine detachment and disdain of internet chatrooms has lead the Reichstagge to perceive me as a very useful and successful operator. Simply because SC has NO PERSONAL AGENDA. I believe that's why I constantly receive new briefs. Can you show me ANY 'ex' person who carries that kind of water pistol into this forum? There's sure ain't one here. It simply isn't possible due to the very nature of the forum and the reason it exists. There's no greater power than no axe to grind. I used to slip up occasionally, of course, but they've trained me well. I don't make mistakes anymore, every shot counts. And yes, Mr John Tuckerbox, you are right, I am now being attacked in the same way that Prempal Rawat is attacked. That point is not lost on the viewing audience! Comprende? (no - Mr 'never a premie' would see that one fly right over his bald patch I'm afraid) I don't blame the Reichstagge for using me, and let me assure you that they do NOT send me here to annoy you discoverers of the real heaven on earth (F7). That's just wishful thinking from the lonely attention seekers. No, I am sent here for those readers who do not necessarily agree with F7's perspective of the universe. Contrary to popular fantasy, they have as much right to be here as anyone else, so does any other cybersurfer. Totally closed forums are a plenty on the net. Why isn't this one of them? We all know don't we?! So, in a nutshell, amongst this vast viewing audience SC has become a legend in his own cyberlunchbox. When someone replies to SC they usually know they're replying to hundreds of people. SC - but a humble mouthpiece....

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:06:39 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: McDuck Subject: Re: Cat and I are finished! Message:

Yes, McDuck, David's posts on LG have been very good lately. He can be a halfway decent chap when he is being straightforward and honest as his creatures, Cerise, Marolyn, SC, CW et al never were.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 19:52:21 (EST) From: SC Email: None To: PatC Subject: Aw comon Pat! Message:

I've always been a decent chappie as CW! mioaoooww puuuuurrrrrr :)

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 04:51:01 (EST) From: The Wild Cat Email: None To: PatC Subject: Re: Cat and I are finished! Message:

Once and for all Pat .Stop being a fucking moron. I am not anyones creature.You wear your guile like cling wrap.I find SC amusing at times, but be warned. We are very different propositions.

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 05:04:19 (EST) From: anti CULT patrol Email: None To: The Wild Cat Subject: ^^^ CYBERSTALKER THREAT!! ^^^ [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 06:26:51 (EST) From: WHooP Whoop Email: None To: anti CULT patrol Subject: PULL OVER DRIVER!!!! Message:

Ah ,er ah..Was that you Beavis? I think this dork is callin the cops..

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Date: Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 14:03:44 (EST) From: PatC Email: None To: WHooP Whoop Subject: Welcome to Woop Woop - OT Message:

If anyone wants to understand the nether regions of Aussie humor, I recommend that movie starring an aging but hilariously disgusting Rod Taylor (who played the handsome Mitch Brenner in Hitchcock's 1963 ''The Birds.'')

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 18:15:26 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: All Subject: Guru Puja Message:

Hey, I've just realised we went to festivals called 'Guru Puja', which I was told meant 'Guru Worship'. Now if Maharaji is just a meditation teacher, why would he countenance festivals being called Guru Worship? John.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 19:13:11 (EST) From: Dit Mitchkoff Email: None To: JHB Subject: Re: Guru Puja Message:

John, In the early days, like prior to 1996, it was weird because the followers of Maharaji were spiritually immature and literally forced Maharaji to do things that look like adulation. But what do worship and adulation really mean anyway? Who is to say? It's all relative. I mean some say that people worship their dogs, or Jewish mothers worship their sons. And hey, the adulation that happened at those festivals was really no different than the adulation I feel for the Japanese guy who blows the leaves out of my driveway; at least that's my wife's opinion. Also, things like Guru worship have gone the way of platform shoes and 3-button suits. Believe me, they really have. Plus, as explained by my good friend, neighbor and business associate, Andrea Erickson, who, as seen by her life, children, husband and personal habits which she exhibited prominently on the internet, is way too successful, cool and sophisticated to be in a cult, people in India are really, how shall I say it, backward and ignorant about these things. I mean, look, Andrea and her husband plan to retire early to Wales. People like that are not stupid, you know. As such, those Indians have really screwed up and outdated ideas about words like 'guru' and 'worship.' Hell, they worship everything over there, including cows, statues and strange syrupy deserts. You really can't judge Maharaji by those cultural misunderstandings coming from such a regtrograde place, like an exotic plant, and planted into our modern, advanced culture. Maharaji has worked his fingers to the bone saving us from all those ignorant Hindu concepts. I'm sure that explains everything, but if it doesn't, just keep in mind that I'm a really cool guy, so cool in fact that I tolerate the fact that my wife follows some other master, other than Maharaji. Hey, I'm a thoroughly modern premie, so tolerant and liberal in my thinking about everything. See, like Andrea Erikson, I couldn't possibly be in a cult either. I remember distinctly thinking how un-cult-like someone like me is, as I was standing in the darshan line down in Amaroo. It's just so synchronized to be without all those exotic-plant-like Hindu rituals. Thanks to Maharaji, you can be too. As you can see, this is a work in progress. If anyone can think of anything to add to this, please email me at: DitMitchkoff@pleaseconsiderthisandnotthat.com If you hurry, you can also email Elan Vital, while they still exist, at: ElanVital@wearenotacult/wereallyaren't.org Yours, in synchronization and completely out of my box, Dit Mitchkoff

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 20:50:22 (EST) From: Deborah Email: None To: Dit Mitchkoff Subject: Well that was funny [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 19:30:19 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: Dit Mitchkoff Subject: Thanks, Dit Message:

Thanks, Dit, I think I understand, and I'm currently amending www.ex-premie.org to include a FAQ on the first page. Questions will include 'Is Maharaji the Leader of a Cult?', 'Does Maharaji own Knowledge?', 'Is Knowledge Free?', 'Why don't we just move on?' and 'Who is Maharaji?'. Thanks for giving me your email address as I'm sure you will be able to help me write proper answers to these questions. John.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 14:50:35 (EST) From: cq Email: None To: All Subject: So just WHO is responsible for this ??? Message:

Responsible for what? you ask - responsible for the culture of blame around here. Must be Maharaji. P.S. Bye, Katie and Tonette. Hope it's only a temporary farewell. This place needs common sense, and your posts have always had plenty of that increasingly rare commodity. I think this Forum needs you more than some contributors might think. Shame there's consequently going to be less of it around here from now.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 17:50:04 (EST) From: gerry Email: None To: cq Subject: Shit happens, but... Message:

I wished I'd locked the thread early seein' as how things turned out. I was horse's ass fer not doin' it, and I take the blame square. Goddernit Jim et al, it just ain't worth hurtin' folkses feelings like that. Now we lost Tonette who was a valuable player and a nice person, too. And I ain't gonna jaw about this any longer, neither. This mess of a thread is now officially hog-tied and over.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:50:29 (EST) From: Loaf Email: None To: cq Subject: Re: So just WHO is responsible for this ??? Message:

nice spacing ! x nogbad

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:29:35 (EST) From: such Email: None To: Loaf Subject: space cadets Message:

http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lac/cm143/sc2.html [ http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lac/cm143/sc2.html ]

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:31:40 (EST) From: such Email: None To: such Subject: more space cadets:some real flamers Message:

http://www.memagazine.org/contents/current/features/scadets/scadets.html [ http://www.memagazine.org/contents/current/features/scadets/scadets.html ]

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:43:57 (EST) From: berni Email: None To: such Subject: Space Cowboys - warning Message:

Don't go and see that movie - it's truly awfull, I think Clint Eastwood must have gone senile to make it. I know it's OT but if I can save someone 2 hours of their lives then it's been worth it.

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 15:41:04 (EST) From: Francesca Email: None To: cq Subject: I'm with you, cq [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 00:20:37 (EST) From: Inside Edition Email: None To: All Subject: Message:

Joe, In answer to your question below, 'who is the Malibu Mob?', I have a few guesses as well. Valerio Pascotto - EV psychologist, Training facilitator, deals with Jagdeo victim(s). His brother, Alvaro Pascotto - Attorney (tax and aviation specialist - gee what a coincidence). Alvaro's wife, Linda Pascotto - EV 'Human Resources' chief. Tim Gallway - Training facilitator, provides gold credit card for Jagdeo victim(s) to fly to meeting with Valerio (at least in Abi's case). Jean-Marie Bonthous - EV PR chief, Training facilitator, source of multiple PR team defections. Ira Woods - Head of Mahatmas (not sure if Ira actually lives in the Holy City of Malibu, but most of the others do). Any other candidates?

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Date: Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:03:29 (EST) From: gerry Email: None To: All Subject: Free Anti-Virus Software (OT) Message:

This seems to be a fine German made software. It downloads in about 15 min at 56K. They don't send out update notices, however, so you have to keep checking their websites. I've made it my start page with all this junk floating around the net these days. free anti virus software

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Date: Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:56:20 (EST) From: Chuck S. Email: None To: gerry Subject: More Free Anti-Virus Software (OT) Message:

There are some downloadable programs there. I use and old version of E-Trust. The new version is can be downloaded and used for free for 60 days, after which time you can buy it for $19.95 if you like it. It has a yearly renewal of $19.95 too, but most of the antivirus software is going by subscription now. [ Tim O'Leary Anti-Virus Site ]

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 10:50:43 (EST) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Chuck S. Subject: Check eSafe antivirus also Message:

[ eSafe AntiVirus ]

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Date: Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:06:40 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: gerry Subject: Re: Free Anti-Virus Software (OT) Message:

But Gerry, you haven't told us what this software is! John.

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Date: Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:16:31 (EST) From: gerry Email: None To: JHB Subject: read it again, John Message:

You guys are quick! The link didn't show up because I forgot to give it a name.

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Date: Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 19:21:55 (EST) From: JHB Email: None To: gerry Subject: I did but the link don't work [nt] Message:

[nt]

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Date: Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 20:13:20 (EST) From: gerry Email: None To: JHB Subject: Try this Message:

[ finally I think I got it right sheesh.com ]

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Date: Thurs, Dec 06, 2001 at 16:20:16 (EST) From: such Email: None To: gerry Subject: but I don't do windows [nt] Message:

[nt]

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