Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Sep 01, 2001 To: Sep 08, 2001 Page: 5 of: 5


An Ex-CAC victum that can't -:- say his name -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 21:04:36 (EDT)

such -:- 'Eagles Nest' - 2 famous hilltop residences! -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 19:26:37 (EDT)
__ btdt -:- Re: 'Eagles Nest' - 2 famous hilltop residences! -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 13:05:38 (EDT)
__ btdt -:- Re: 'Eagles Nest' - 2 famous hilltop residences! -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 13:05:36 (EDT)
__ Vera -:- here's another quiz question -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 10:42:46 (EDT)
__ __ Is it -:- Jhabvala? [nt] -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 23:38:33 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Don't know, Vera. Do tell. [nt] -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 13:58:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Got it! -:- Tues, Sep 04, 2001 at 13:00:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Got it! Thanks, cq [nt] -:- Tues, Sep 04, 2001 at 15:06:14 (EDT)
__ Vera -:- Re: 'Eagles Nest' - 2 famous hilltop residences! -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 10:36:45 (EDT)
__ PS -:- btw Such . . . -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 05:15:04 (EDT)
__ btdt -:- Re: 'Eagles Nest' - 2 famous hilltop residences! -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 01:11:56 (EDT)
__ ggg -:- hmmm,now let me see . . .nt -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 19:54:45 (EDT)
__ ggg -:- hmmm,now let me see . . .nt -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 19:54:39 (EDT)
__ Passing Through -:- Of course! How amazing!(nt) -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 19:40:38 (EDT)

salsa -:- NO KOOLAID FOR PREMIES -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:38:07 (EDT)
__ janet -:- charnamrit with GHB -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 05:06:09 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- I'm pissing my panties...LOL! [nt] -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:52:25 (EDT)

btdt -:- Extremely Greatful -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:21:22 (EDT)
__ Brian Smith -:- Re:grateful: Me too! -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 20:15:29 (EDT)
__ __ Brian Smith -:- Re: Re:grateful:Me too!I failed to mention -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 20:51:08 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- And thank you -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:30:20 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- And thank you...me too:) [nt] -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:50:18 (EDT)

it IS so -:- Dettmers pages back online -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:49:16 (EDT)
__ it IS so -:- but wait, there is more -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 06:49:11 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Salam, you need an editor -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 21:41:15 (EDT)
__ __ janet -:- i do it for him Jimim -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 05:14:38 (EDT)
__ __ it IS so -:- Want to volunteer -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 22:52:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- I would -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 13:57:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- I have been no help at all -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 17:31:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Shame on you!!! -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 22:15:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- No am not -:- Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 05:17:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca :C) -:- We be da yin and the yang -:- Tues, Sep 04, 2001 at 00:43:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ salam -:- oh stop crying -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 19:28:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ jaNET -:- your colors blur -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 05:17:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ salam -:- Re: your colors blur -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 06:28:57 (EDT)
__ RichMandrake -:- Great Work!..But could you.. -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:56:12 (EDT)
__ salsina -:- OT -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:54:59 (EDT)
__ __ it IS so -:- what are u talking about? }) -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:07:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ RichMandrake -:- It is BLACK on My Computer -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:11:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ it IS so -:- Re: It is BLACK on My Computer -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:15:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ This is why -:- It is black on some computers -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:25:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ it IS so -:- give me a break will you -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:31:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ it IS so -:- OK try now[nt] -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:40:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ RichMandrake -:- its WHITE!!!!!Go to BED!!(nt) -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:43:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- :: on HTML interoperability :: -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 19:26:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Re: :: on HTML interoperability :: -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 19:32:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- its nitpicking-- -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 05:26:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ YakYak -:- Re: :: on HTML interoperability :: -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 20:08:29 (EDT)

Steve Quint -:- Letter To Maharaji -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:00:35 (EDT)
__ Steve Quint -:- Re: Letter To Maharaji -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:53:33 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Re: Letter To Maharaji -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:50:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Hi Again, Pat -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 10:38:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Even better, Steve - a gardener -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 13:54:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Re: Letter To Maharaji -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 21:14:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Pearl Diving...And Pulling Weeds... -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 16:55:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Hey, Steve, you sound quite chipper -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 04:49:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Pat, You had a very smart Mom... [nt] -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:54:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Don't I know it -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:15:24 (EDT)

Vera -:- Bill Patterson, Claudia -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 11:36:53 (EDT)
__ bending the Branch -:- is that you, Victoria? -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:07:57 (EDT)
__ __ i doubt it -:- think she's for real -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 05:34:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ branch -:- Ok dad. Nt -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 09:22:39 (EDT)

Mail Carrier -:- Milli-FROM Lifes (sic) Great -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 09:48:35 (EDT)
__ Jerry -:- The power of suggestion -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:19:04 (EDT)
__ __ Passing Through -:- Suggesting the Power -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 19:34:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ silvia -:- Re: Suggesting the Power -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 09:21:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Passing Through -:- Suggestions to Silvia -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 20:39:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ silvia -:- How deep.....NT -:- Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 02:12:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ a0aji -:- :: got third? :: -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 19:49:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Passing Through -:- Y2K? Why not (nt) -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 20:46:30 (EDT)

Silvia -:- Is reasoning with premies worthless??? -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 09:20:30 (EDT)
__ Bob -:- Re: Is reasoning with premies worthless? -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 17:47:48 (EDT)
__ Brian Smith -:- very Difficult indeed -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:34:03 (EDT)
__ __ silvia -:- Don't doubt the MASTER -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 09:25:22 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- Re: very Difficult indeed -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 19:54:21 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Excellent, Brian. You said it all -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:09:08 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- Reasoning with Premies: Oxymoron -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:01:21 (EDT)
__ __ Me -:- Cynthia the saviour! -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:16:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ janet -:- not when she just tells it -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 05:44:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ Cynthia (channeling Sydney) -:- Why, Thank you, Me... -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:31:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Hey Victoria -:- Do you think -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 01:38:53 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Do you think... -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 09:58:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ janet -:- who got her that way?-unohoo -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 05:49:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cyberstalker Vigilante -:- Save above post, Cynthia. [nt] -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 04:52:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- I'm saving all the nasty ones...n/t -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 09:20:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ CV -:- You must get this sick one Cynth! -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 10:37:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- That was Sydney.... -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 16:58:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Sydney must be related to -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 17:08:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Actually Sydney was quite mild that day :) [nt] -:- Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 13:49:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Silvia -:- OLE! -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:09:10 (EDT)
__ __ btdt -:- Re: Reasoning with Premies: Oxymoron -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:27:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Reasoning with Premies: Oxymoron -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:19:57 (EDT)
__ __ a True Devotee -:- is Cynthia the Lord?? -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:53:07 (EDT)
__ Me -:- Enslaved? Noooo! -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:00:02 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- get a proper job, Rawat! -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:21:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ Silvia -:- hahahahahahhahaha -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:31:23 (EDT)
__ __ the other ME -:- I am a free person, you idiot! -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:25:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Re: I am a free person, you idiot! -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:22:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Silvia -:- I got it, but I got the double intention 2 -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:51:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ Me -:- Definition -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:19:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Silvia -:- Yeah, YOU! -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:16:20 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Re: Enslaved? Noooo! -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:08:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- It's the Turing Machine Troll, Cynthia -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:24:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- I know, Sometimes I can't help it... -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:36:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Pranam, oh Lordess. Cyn and Sil -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:05:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- From the Lordess, Cynthia -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:21:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ btdt -:- Re: From the Lordess, Cynthia -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 16:23:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Silvia -:- Re: Pranam, oh Lordess. Cyn and Sil -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:18:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ btdt -:- Re: Pranam, oh Lordess. Cyn and Sil -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 16:21:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Silvia -:- Pranam, oh NEW Lordess. Cyn and Sil -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 17:21:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ btdt -:- Re: Pranam, oh Lordess. Cyn and Sil -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 16:21:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Happy full moon you goddesses [nt] -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:23:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- :-D* [nt] -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 16:16:34 (EDT)

btdt -:- carl's post -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 05:55:20 (EDT)
__ cq -:- Re: carl's post -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 07:45:55 (EDT)
__ ggg -:- Re: Carl's 2nd post to Harry -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 07:44:35 (EDT)
__ __ RichMandrake -:- I Agree. Brilliant Post -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 10:03:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Carl's post BEST OF LIFES GREAT -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:13:26 (EDT)

Bang the Magnificent -:- Life on the farm -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 03:56:13 (EDT)
__ salam -:- Re: Life on the farm -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 08:37:53 (EDT)
__ George Orwell -:- All Rawat cult members are equal but.... -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 05:46:29 (EDT)
__ janet -:- into bestiality, are you? -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 05:23:45 (EDT)
__ __ Bang -:- Could this be love? -:- Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 00:18:31 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- Re: Life on the farm - a load of crap -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 04:32:11 (EDT)
__ __ btdt -:- Re: Life on the farm - a load of crap -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 05:23:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ btdt -:- Re: Life on the farm - a load of crap -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 05:30:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Sausages, frankfurters and links -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 05:34:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ btdt -:- Re: Sausages, frankfurters and links -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 05:38:22 (EDT)

Jim -:- At the Back of the North Wind -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 00:00:48 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- Life is great -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 04:19:02 (EDT)
__ __ Disculta -:- Re: Life is great -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 11:17:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Re: Life is great - of course you will -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:56:52 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Good Post, Pat... -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 11:04:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- What a treat, Cynthia. Thanks -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:03:28 (EDT)
__ __ Silvia -:- Good Post!!! -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 09:35:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Sorry about the farts, Silvia -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:06:29 (EDT)
__ __ btdt -:- Re: Life is great -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 04:53:56 (EDT)
__ __ Tonette -:- I hope your surgery went well. OT -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 04:45:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- I knew it. You're a lover -:- Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 04:49:24 (EDT)


Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 21:04:36 (EDT)
From: An Ex-CAC victum that can't
Email: None
To: All
Subject: say his name
Message:
I wonder what the guru is doing now? If you know please give an early warning.
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 19:26:37 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: All
Subject: 'Eagles Nest' - 2 famous hilltop residences!
Message:
Name the primary famous occupant of each of da Eagles Nest walled residences:

1.

2.

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 13:05:38 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Re: 'Eagles Nest' - 2 famous hilltop residences!
Message:
Good one!!!
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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 13:05:36 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Re: 'Eagles Nest' - 2 famous hilltop residences!
Message:
Good one!!!
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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 10:42:46 (EDT)
From: Vera
Email: None
To: such
Subject: here's another quiz question
Message:
Actually I'll pose a question:

In the 1980s a best-selling novel was written by probably the most famous 'literary' novelist in the world. The novel went on to not only win the Booker Prize, but the 'Booker of Bookers' - i.e. was chosen as the best Booker winner in the prize's 25-year history.

Among other things this masterpiece satirised Maharaji, whom it characterised as a boy genius ruthlessly promoted as a money-spinner by an entrepreneurial mother, who turned him into a boy guru.

What was that novel, and who is its author?

Vera

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 23:38:33 (EDT)
From: Is it
Email: None
To: Vera
Subject: Jhabvala? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 13:58:28 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Vera
Subject: Don't know, Vera. Do tell. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Tues, Sep 04, 2001 at 13:00:41 (EDT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Got it!
Message:
Now to read it.

Who was it? None other than Salman Rushdie, and his novel 'Midnight's Children'

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Date: Tues, Sep 04, 2001 at 15:06:14 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Got it! Thanks, cq [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 10:36:45 (EDT)
From: Vera
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Re: 'Eagles Nest' - 2 famous hilltop residences!
Message:
Name the primary famous occupant of each of da Eagles Nest walled residences:

1. Hitler, A.

2. Rawat, PS.

Next question please.

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 05:15:04 (EDT)
From: PS
Email: None
To: such
Subject: btw Such . . .
Message:
. . . I have no cigs, but I do a mean carrot crumble . . .!

peas and carrots
ggg

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 01:11:56 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Re: 'Eagles Nest' - 2 famous hilltop residences!
Message:
Two in Malibu? Are there any bonus points involved? How about extra credit? Can we make up the final? How long does the term paper have to be? Professore Suchagreatmind, what gems of wisdom dost thou have for the masses?
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 19:54:45 (EDT)
From: ggg
Email: None
To: such
Subject: hmmm,now let me see . . .nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 19:54:39 (EDT)
From: ggg
Email: None
To: such
Subject: hmmm,now let me see . . .nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 19:40:38 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Of course! How amazing!(nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:38:07 (EDT)
From: salsa
Email: None
To: All
Subject: NO KOOLAID FOR PREMIES
Message:
NO NEED: From below. :):):)

Posted: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:21:31 (EDT)
Original: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:00:02 (EDT)
Posted by: Pat:C) Recipient: Me
Email Address: Not Provided
Browser Type: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt)

Subject: get a proper job, Rawat!
Message:

All premie posts will now be recorded to show that they are harassing exes and intimidating them and attempting to lure them back into a cult which is escalating in madness and fanaticism and paranoia which can only lead to a Jonestown in Amaroo. Actually they won't need KoolAid because Rawat will bore them to death.

;)

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 05:06:09 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: salsa
Subject: charnamrit with GHB
Message:
like my best friend took on the beach. only no ambulances called or allowed in the compound.
bet me?
how long till it comes?
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:52:25 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: salsa
Subject: I'm pissing my panties...LOL! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:21:22 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Extremely Greatful
Message:
Reading Janet Schwartz' journey, I can only say how indepted I am to this site. I arrived here quite by 'accident', but really, the timing was the most critical and I can see that now. Janet said she didn't want her son to practice knowledge and after her years with knowledge, it's nothing short of a miracle they are both healthy and alive.

Why am I babbling on about this? My own teens have waited to reach 18 to receive knowledge. My son was actually going to drive to the latest LA program by himself to see M. My daughter told me quite recently she was ready to ask for knowledge. Thank god, this site opened my eyes and stopped me in my tracks. It has also stopped them in their's.

The Pasadena program, along with the world via satellite, erupted into cheers when Premlata announced she had received knowledge.
Maharaji related to the satellite world when Daya received it and again we all cheered.

So the cycle of this cult's abuse is stopped for the incoming generation for all who come here and can find the courage to face this head on. Abuse cycling through generation after generation is a difficult thing to top. Thank god you all have fortitude and staying power. Sometimes it's hard because I always had the fairy tale fantasy that their lives would be easier and happier and stressfree since they could slide right into knowledge in their adult life. Oh my god! Can you imagine? Handing children and eventually grandchildren, the dearest things to our hearts, right into this insidious cult is too much to bear. Really, but for all of you, it was but a step away. Thank you thank you thank you.

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 20:15:29 (EDT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: Re:grateful: Me too!
Message:
When M came to Portland earlier this year, my 22 year old daughter and her boyfriend were all primed and ready to go.

That was just about the same time I was exiting, to make a long story short, I explained my new outlook and reasons for leaving and none of us went, and never will again.

This is two more people who will not have to spend untold years sorting out some sort of emotional attachment to a cult leader and a cult.

We all make a difference in our own little world

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 20:51:08 (EDT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Re: Re:grateful:Me too!I failed to mention
Message:
That I also dissuaded a good friend of mine from going to the Portland event and from any further involvement. This is a man whom I had been taking to Video's for over four years, a sworn aspirant, had already talked to instructors was saved from the clutches of the cult.

Also my other son, his girlfriend, Hey the list goes on.

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:30:20 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: And thank you
Message:
It has been a treat to watch you change from defending the EV church ladies to saying what you just said. Welcome back to the to sanity and freedom of ordinary, down to earth, sensible folks who don't need to be saved because we never were damned in the first place. Life really is great without maharajism or any other religion, osophy, ology or jism!
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:50:18 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: And thank you...me too:) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:49:16 (EDT)
From: it IS so
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Dettmers pages back online
Message:
I have uploaded these pages back on the net after CAC closed Sir Dave web site. The format has change, but the text is the same.

Am reorganizing the whole site, so I left the link as text only until further notice.

Dettmers Pages

http://www.geocities.com/it_is_soau/index.html

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 06:49:11 (EDT)
From: it IS so
Email: None
To: it IS so
Subject: but wait, there is more
Message:
CAC threatining e-mail to Sir Dave
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 21:41:15 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: it IS so
Subject: Salam, you need an editor
Message:
Salam,

Your site's good and getting better. But you need an editor, someone to clean up some of the grammar and typos. It's all good but that would just make it better.

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 05:14:38 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: i do it for him Jimim
Message:
this is the behind the scenes stuff you arent aware of. francesca and i took turns by email proofing for him. he puts it up, we ccp and caorrect and email it back to him in page ready.
this stuff is new. hasnt been proofed yet.
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 22:52:36 (EDT)
From: it IS so
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Want to volunteer
Message:
it's free and I won't ask you for money, no kidding. Any suggestions as to who in case you decide to reject my offer.
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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 13:57:29 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: it IS so
Subject: I would
Message:
Salam,

No problem but seeing as you've already got Janet and Francesca, your'e covered no?

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 17:31:25 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I have been no help at all
Message:
Jim:

I feel like I've let Salam down here and he's been very good about it. I did a couple of pages for him and ended up getting too busy to be of any help for the past two months. It's on my list of things to do and I never get around to it. Salam can attest to that!

Bests, Francesca

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 22:15:39 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: Shame on you!!!
Message:
That's disgusting, Francesca. Simply, utterly disgusting. And what? You've got an 'excuse' or something? I can assure you Salam's not interested. Haven't you done enough damage? Leave the boy alone!

Salam, you okay, bud?

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Date: Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 05:17:40 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No am not
Message:
I don't want to make Fran guilty now do I? Fran, u feeling guilty or what.

Well for me, am not feeling gut at present, so I guess it balances out, yar?

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Date: Tues, Sep 04, 2001 at 00:43:34 (EDT)
From: Francesca :C)
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: We be da yin and the yang
Message:
But I'm not feeling guilty at the moment either!

I am an ex-Catholic, ex-premie, ex-Tibetan Buddhist, used to Industrial Strength Guilt. Tibetans have 'regret,' rather than guilt. And lots of hot and cold hells, with detailed descriptions.

Boiling copper bath, anyone? Don't forget the soap.

Francesca

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 19:28:48 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Francesca :C)
Subject: oh stop crying
Message:
am a big boy, I can take it. Don't blame yourself, it's all Boris fault.
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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 05:17:03 (EDT)
From: jaNET
Email: None
To: it IS so
Subject: your colors blur
Message:
in the bars at the lower left, it show bright red with blue txt, but the blue text blurs out to a smear. try using a color chart to see how the text colors will look against the background colors before picking.
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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 06:28:57 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: jaNET
Subject: Re: your colors blur
Message:
doh, probably you don't know that am color blind. chart or no chart makes no difference, sheesh. am working on redoing the whole site in frames and stuff like that. Means I have to drop everything else. Oh well am a devil.
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:56:12 (EDT)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: it IS so
Subject: Great Work!..But could you..
Message:
Change the Background color to White...it is very Hard on the Eyes to read Blue text with a Black Background...Disuading people like myself from fully exploring this Valuable Resource. Thank You again for Putting this Back Up....RichMandrake
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:54:59 (EDT)
From: salsina
Email: None
To: it IS so
Subject: OT
Message:
salam,

I think you 'should' consider changing the color of the leters at left/pages titales: Is hard to read the names. Lighter can be better

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:07:23 (EDT)
From: it IS so
Email: None
To: salsina
Subject: what are u talking about? })
Message:
There isn't black background. It's already white. Do you mean you want the background to be a bit shadier, so it does not glare?

Don't know am stuffed at present, too much looking at the computer, it's 3 in the morning, am cold, want a smoke amongst other things.

See later.

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:11:30 (EDT)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: it IS so
Subject: It is BLACK on My Computer
Message:
The Background is Clearly BLACK on My Computer...with Blue Lettering. NOt being a Computer Buff. I have no clue as to why this is..but it is unusual. A White Background is almost always present on Webpages I view...so I dont believe it is My Computer...Get Some Sleep..and Maybe you can help me with this tommorrow...Thanks...RichMandrake..
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:15:46 (EDT)
From: it IS so
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Re: It is BLACK on My Computer
Message:
black background? humm. Anyone else has black background with blue letters? This is interesting, I think I go and wake my next door neighbor and check on his machine.
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:25:18 (EDT)
From: This is why
Email: None
To: it IS so
Subject: It is black on some computers
Message:
Your background color on the pages is

body BGCLOOR=""

That means default color on people's browsers. Set the bgcolor to white or anything else but not nothing.

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:31:10 (EDT)
From: it IS so
Email: None
To: This is why
Subject: give me a break will you
Message:
I was going to blame it on someone, got to go bed, sheesh.
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:40:05 (EDT)
From: it IS so
Email: None
To: it IS so
Subject: OK try now[nt]
Message:
mm
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:43:19 (EDT)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: it IS so
Subject: its WHITE!!!!!Go to BED!!(nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 19:26:27 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: RichMandrake
Subject: :: on HTML interoperability ::
Message:
If you set it to

body BGCLOOR='#ffffff'

That will make it white background, and use the browser default
colors for everything else. That's what NASA used on a lot of
their web pages, for a color scheme: they forced a white background,
but left everything else alone (as far as colors go).
When you pick colors for the background, it is important to
restrict yourself to standard colors (especially if you're
naming them in hexadecimal, as I've done above, with #ffffff).

If you use some intermediate colors (between two standard ones)
it can create unwanted hashing (striations on the computer screen)
as your machine attempts to dither, to make rendering more accurate.

One good technique is to specify a small, uniform .GIF image
as the background. This way, the machine is obligated to render
the .GIF image accurately, to the best of its ability. Unlike
a .JPG image, a .GIF image is uncompressed; there is relatively
little room for 'interpretation' of its rendering.

The small .GIF image will 'tile' (repeat itself) until it fills
the entire background; if the .GIF image is created carefully,
it will mate with itself at the edges, when tiled like this.

It is OK to trust your browser to find errors in HTML, but there
is no substitute for viewing the same document on several machines
of different design, to spot the flaws that make them less
interoperable.

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 19:32:44 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: a0aji
Subject: Re: :: on HTML interoperability ::
Message:
If you set it to

body BGCLOOR='#ffffff'

That will make it white background, and use the browser default
colors for everything else. That's what NASA used on a lot of
their web pages, for a color scheme: they forced a white background,
but left everything else alone (as far as colors go).
When you pick colors for the background, it is important to
restrict yourself to standard colors (especially if you're
naming them in hexadecimal, as I've done above, with #ffffff).

If you use some intermediate colors (between two standard ones)
it can create unwanted hashing (striations on the computer screen)
as your machine attempts to dither, to make rendering more accurate.

One good technique is to specify a small, uniform .GIF image
as the background. This way, the machine is obligated to render
the .GIF image accurately, to the best of its ability. Unlike
a .JPG image, a .GIF image is uncompressed; there is relatively
little room for 'interpretation' of its rendering.

The small .GIF image will 'tile' (repeat itself) until it fills
the entire background; if the .GIF image is created carefully,
it will mate with itself at the edges, when tiled like this.

It is OK to trust your browser to find errors in HTML, but there
is no substitute for viewing the same document on several machines
of different design, to spot the flaws that make them less
interoperable.


---

Also:

You probably will want to start using a 'lint' sooner or later.

A lint is a class of program that does one thing: it checks the
syntax of files that must work with some other program. The metaphor
is supposed to be (I think this is right) like when someone picks
the lint off of a fine garment, to make it more presentable (knit-
picking).

There's a good lint available for documents posted online at
http://validator.w3.org/ and there is also a good lint available for Linux -- it's called 'weblint'.
[ W3C HTML Validation Service ]

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 05:26:15 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: its nitpicking--
Message:
nits are the eggs of lice that are cemented to the individual hairs. if a persons hair is infested with lice, it isnt enought to wet the hair with lice killer. the nits have to be located and gotten off the hairs too, or a new generation will hatch in a few eeks and youre back to square one. humans use a fine tooth comb to get them off. apes groom each other and pick them out with their nails.
but its nit-picking,
not knit picking.

just to be nitpicky about it.

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 20:08:29 (EDT)
From: YakYak
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Re: :: on HTML interoperability ::
Message:
mate, I work on this by me self. Got no assistant or enough time to pick up lint. If anyone want to pick up lint, you know where to find me. YakYak. So I forgot to take the bgcolor, so bloody what. A bit of black never hurt anyone before, did it? YakYak. I do have a validator, but again, YakYak, read the start of post for details:)
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:00:35 (EDT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: All
Subject: Letter To Maharaji
Message:
I have written numerous letters and emails to Maharaji over 20 years and have received not one response from him. I have one more thing to say to him, and will do so here and now. There is a chance he might receive the information through this channel.

Maharaji:

You have said and implied that you were God. Many people in our society believe that God controls their destiny, in this life and after death as well. Now you deny, beyond all evidence and in great insult to the memories of your current and former devotees, that you ever said or implied you were God.

Many people who trusted you, gave you all their time, attention and money, placed their destinies in your hands, are now confused. Do not play with peoples' relationships with God. Don't you see the psychological damage and confusion this causes?

Come clean and make a public statement about this, including information on exactly who you are and why you had peple believe you were God or 'greater than God'. This includes sitting quietly many many times while people sang such verses to you as 'Our lord's the superior power in person, I bow down before such a wonderful lord' and 'The lord of the universe has come to us this day'.

Please stop playing with people's lives and deepest concerns as if they were so much debris.

Steven Quint

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:53:33 (EDT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Re: Letter To Maharaji
Message:
One more thing - Maharaji has said many times that a person needs a living master - a dead master, like a dead doctor, won't do. A living master can answer your questions.

Why is it then, that Maharaji has never answered my questions. A living hypocrite is better than a dead hypocrite, perhaps?

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:50:57 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Re: Letter To Maharaji
Message:
Good stuff, Steve. This really is the bottom line. First he was the savior who would bring heaven on earth and now he is a salesman selling ''Don't worry, be happy'' pap. But of course the true believers see that all as a game.

When I first got K my mom said to me, ''But it sounds like M is playing games with you. How can you trust a game-player?'' I tried to explain the concept of lila to her but she thought it was disgusting.

He is still playing games and his devotees are so used to having their minds warped they love it.

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 10:38:04 (EDT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Hi Again, Pat
Message:
I've been living with my mother for the last ten months and I've learnt a lot about her.

She was almost always against Maharaji and my involvement with the cult. Come to think of it, like the Beatles song says 'your mother should know'. Mothers know about love. And that includes tough love as well as soft love. Mothers should know how to recognize love. I guess it's like the canary in the coal mine, if all mothers here will excuse the analogy.

I'm learning a lot and humility helps a lot in that process. 'Better late than never' is one of my favourite expressions these days.

Become a dishwasher, Pat? If you were the boss I'd do it.

Love,

Steve

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 13:54:15 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Even better, Steve - a gardener
Message:
I wrote that late last night and that just pooped out. But now gardening is food for the soul. An hour of pulling weeds out of my garden is like a month of therapy pulling weeds out of my mind.

I didn't start to appreciate my mom's wisdom until I in my thirties and then my admiration for her just increased. I once tried to explain tripping on acid to her and she said, ''OH, that! Yes, everyone can feel that. You just can't talk about some things because they are too private.''

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 21:14:10 (EDT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Letter To Maharaji
Message:
Lila is supposed to be fun, I'm sure, born of love. When lila isn't fun - and it was NEVER fun with Haharaji, it's something else. Mind-screwing would be a better name. Let's stick with English, our native language. Mind-fucking is positive in the opinion of one of my female friends, kind of like safe sex. To carry the analogy to Haharaji, playing God and then denying it is not safe nor is it sex. It's abusing a person's spirituality and trust in the worst way. Kind of like shooting someone in the foot and then apologizing, saying that you really wanted to dance with them.

What sayest thou, oh great Pat? Am I not on the money again?

Steve

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 16:55:31 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Pearl Diving...And Pulling Weeds...
Message:
Hi to both Steve and Pat,

Pulling weeds has always been the most therapeutic thing for me. Planting a garden...it's blissful. I'm a two-fisted weed-puller.

Pearl diving is an honorable job. I never knew that pearl diving was a euphemism for washing dishes. A long time ago a good friend was traveling around Europe and would send us postcards. When he was in Greece, he said he was pearl diving for a job. Tom and I were Soooo impressed, 'hey, he's pearl diving'!!

We were most chagrined to discover he meant he was washing dishes in a restaurant--we felt so stupid. Here in tourist land, there are many restaurants, and washing dishes is fun. But, as you said, Steve, the boss has to be an okay person.

Steve, you do sound very good. Reading your posts made my day...

Be well,
Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 04:49:27 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Hey, Steve, you sound quite chipper
Message:
There really is a tone of self-confidence in your letter that I hadn't heard before. Start with a simple job. Dishwashing or anything that is simple and gives immediate satisfaction. Plenty of restaurants employ casual personnel = no taxes etc = keep your current health benefits etc. A bit of extra cash, some companionship in the workplace = less introspection and a lot more fun.
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:54:34 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Pat, You had a very smart Mom... [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:15:24 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Don't I know it
Message:
Now I absolutely have to drag myself away and go and chop vegetables for the fruits and nuts of SF. Have fun.
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 11:36:53 (EDT)
From: Vera
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Bill Patterson, Claudia
Message:
I remember some years ago seeing an 'interview with Bill Patterson', and a description of Claudia's lawsuit (against EV?), on an ex-premie site(s).

Does anyone know where these pages are now, or - alternately - can anyone update me on the activities they discussed?

Thanks,

V

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:07:57 (EDT)
From: bending the Branch
Email: None
To: Vera
Subject: is that you, Victoria?
Message:
Vera, eh? Now you believe us and are thinking in suing?

I told u so.

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 05:34:02 (EDT)
From: i doubt it
Email: None
To: bending the Branch
Subject: think she's for real
Message:
be a little less hostile will you? give the person their fair chance. they spoke up, reply like a civil person .
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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 09:22:39 (EDT)
From: branch
Email: None
To: i doubt it
Subject: Ok dad. Nt
Message:
y
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 09:48:35 (EDT)
From: Mail Carrier
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Milli-FROM Lifes (sic) Great
Message:
Posted: Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 02:24:01 (EDT)
Original: NA
Posted by: Mili Recipient: All
Email Address: Not Provided
Browser Type: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt)
Message Count: 81 visits (2 today, 81 this week, 2 this month, 81 this year)

Subject: Today's EV Newsletter
Message:

All your life, you desired freedom. The day when you turn within is the day when you achieve your freedom. You have found the open window, you now know how to escape. You have found the key to the prison. Simplicity, every day, is yours. You are then able to come, to be alive, to celebrate this existence, to listen to the Master and say, 'Thank you. Thank you for what you told me. Because what you told me, no one else ever did. They tried to, but their words did not come from the heart.' It is in the Master's Knowledge, it is in his wisdom, it is in his teachings that his proof lies. It is not in a certificate. The Master who removes the inner ignorance does not have a certificate hanging on the wall saying, 'Remover of Ignorance.' It hangs in the heart of all those from whom he has removed the ignorance. That's where you will find that certificate.

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:19:04 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Mail Carrier
Subject: The power of suggestion
Message:
It works. It really works. The only thing Maharaji didn't say is 'You are getting sleepy... sleepy....' But everything else, suggestion. Maharaji knows how to strike a chord in people with what he's saying. People WANT to believe they've found the key. People WANT to believe it's all within so they can carry it with them wherever they go. So Maharaji tells us it's true, it's true, it's all there, just waiting for you. It's at your beck and call. Yes, it's a message people respond very well to. But is it true, or just something we naturally respond to? How many people actually feel this to be true if somebody isn't telling us it is? Even Maharaji blows his cover when he says this:

You are then able to come, to be alive, to celebrate this existence, to listen to the Master and say, 'Thank you. Thank you for what you told me. Because what you told me, no one else ever did. They tried to, but their words did not come from the heart.' It is in the Master's Knowledge, it is in his wisdom, it is in his teachings that his proof lies.

You see? Somewhere along the line Maharaji knows he has to remind you that the way you're feeling is because of what he's telling you. And it's important that he stress that only HE can tell you. Other people can say the same thing, but only when he tells you is it coming from the heart. He's drawing attention to himself as the one and only source of your good feelings.

He's slick. He's builing an equation in our minds that Freedom = Maharaji. But it's all suggestion which targets what we WANT to hear. But is it true? Not in my life. I feel okay so long as the world isn't crowding in on me and I've got my health, and I can feel really good with the right drugs (long time ago, btw), or if I'm in love, or for other reasons, but just by default? For no reason other than I'm breathing? How nice if that were true. I'd really like it to be, but sadly, I've never known it to be.

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 19:34:42 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Suggesting the Power
Message:
Three comments-
Jerry: 'It's at your beck and call?'
PT: I don't think so.
We are at its beck and call.
When it comes into us we begin, when it leaves we go.

Jerry: 'But is it true, or just something we naturally respond to?'
PT: Who cares?

Jerry: And it's important that he stress that only HE can tell you. Other people can say the same thing, but only when he tells you is it coming from the heart. He's drawing attention to himself as the one and only source of your good feelings.
PT: Not true. He's said a billion times that the 'source of your good feelings' is within you.
What he is saying in the above quote is -to say 'Thankyou' to the one who told you about this experience.

Jerry: He's building an equation in our minds that Freedom = Maharaji.
PT: Untrue. The equation is Knowledge=Freedom

Jerry: How nice if that were true. I'd really like it to be, but sadly, I've never known it to be.
PT: Stop breathing!
I'm sure you'll conclude after a few minutes that simply being able to breath is a gorgeous thing.
Enjoy the third technique.

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 09:21:35 (EDT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: Re: Suggesting the Power
Message:
What he is saying in the above quote is -to say 'Thankyou' to the one who told you about this experience.

WHY DO YOU HAVE TO THANK HIM, BUT DOES HE WANT TO BE THANKED???

Why is there a need to experience WHAT IS INSIDE OF YOU to thank him? Do you reason or just repeat it because he says it and the 'is good', acceptable to thank, over and over? Gratitude serves the purpose of the master and not the other way around. Have you consider why do you HAVE to thank? Because what he wants is your devotion. He wants to to develop a relationship based in his superiority over you. His ideas rule your life. He knows better, etc.

When you give a gift do you give it because you just want to give it (and he says he does, he gives it because it brings him '$$JOY$$') or because you want the receiver to thank you.....forever...?

Now you need to think, reason, why is maharaji asking for gratitude? Where does gratitude fits but if not in the equation of him being a cult leader? As the cult leader he needs you to put him in a pedestal. When you have acceppted in your life someone's authority to 'rule' your life you have surrender your life to that person. Why thanks, and thanks, and thanks....?

To make remember OVEr and OVER who is in charge. Without my guru maharaji I am nothing. Only by his grace I have the expertience inside of me? Right? Wrong.

We were born with what premies have come to understand is grace. What is grace and why do you have to thank the master for it? Tricky? No. Look at the word grace definition:

grace (grs)
n.
Seemingly effortless beauty or charm of movement, form, or proportion.
A characteristic or quality pleasing for its charm or refinement.
A sense of fitness or propriety.

A disposition to be generous or helpful; goodwill.
Mercy; clemency.
A favor rendered by one who need not do so; indulgence.
A temporary immunity or exemption; a reprieve.
Graces Greek & Roman Mythology. Three sister goddesses, known in Greek mythology as Aglaia, Euphrosyne, and Thalia, who dispense charm and beauty.

Divine love and protection bestowed freely on people.
The state of being protected or sanctified by the favor of God.
An excellence or power granted by God.
A short prayer of blessing or thanksgiving said before or after a meal.
Grace Used with His, Her, or Your as a title and form of address for a duke, duchess, or archbishop.
Music. An appoggiatura, trill, or other musical ornanment in the music of 16th and 17th century England.

So, if you consider he deserves such a THANKS is he THE GOD?

Please, answer me if you can.

To me we are born with grace in the sense that nothing is missing. Maharaji's grace os his grace and he cannot give it to you. I do not believe in a God and cannot define at this time what I believe in, but know IS.

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 20:39:11 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: silvia
Subject: Suggestions to Silvia
Message:
Silvia says: Only by his grace I have the expertience inside of me? Right? Wrong.
PT says: Wrong. The experience is already there.

S: What is grace and why do you have to thank the master for it?
PT: I'm taking grace as 'A disposition to be generous or helpful; goodwill.'
M showed me how to go within and I am thankful foier that 'helpful' knowledge.

S:So, if you consider he deserves such a THANKS is he THE GOD?
PT: No. He is the person who told me something valuable is going on within me and showed me how to access it.
God is infinite, eternal and omniscient.
PP Rawat is finite, temporary and doesn't know everything.
He can't be god.

S:To me we are born with grace in the sense that nothing is missing. Maharaji's grace is his grace and he cannot give it to you.
PT: As in the definition above, grace is 'A favor rendered by one who need not do so'.
There was no need for M to come to the west, start talking about Knowledge and then teach it to people. He did it as a favor.

S: I do not believe in a God and cannot define at this time what I believe in, but know IS.
PT: God is simply the religious version of energy.
Energy/god is eternal, cannot be created or destroyed, is infinte and all powerful.
The only difference is that god has long been given attributes that scientists are only now realizing also apply to energy.
Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is a classic example.
Talking to plants?
If you think there is such a thing as energy then accept that.
It is that energy that keeps us breathing and alive.
That life giving energy is the most important thing in our lives.
Without it, we are nothing.
With it, anything is possible.

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Date: Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 02:12:50 (EDT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: Passing Through
Subject: How deep.....NT
Message:
yeah, yeah...
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 19:49:10 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Passing Through
Subject: :: got third? ::
Message:
and then PT laid some more rote Maharaji-isms on us, including:
PT: Stop breathing!
I'm sure you'll conclude after a few minutes that simply being able to breath is a gorgeous thing.
Enjoy the third technique


---

The old 'baseball' metaphor again -- four bases. Third base was a digit inserted IIRC.

This reminds me of a joke about the Year 2000 Computer Problem (Y2K).

Q: What is Y2K jelly good for?

A: It allows you to insert two extra digits into your date!

[looks at you quizzically] What do you want for a Saturday night?

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 20:46:30 (EDT)
From: Passing Through
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Y2K? Why not (nt)
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 09:20:30 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Is reasoning with premies worthless???
Message:
I think it is. And why premies refuse to reason properly if not to protect their dream? Because is just a dream. What maharaji teaches doesn't make any sense and I say that by having studied his words in my service as aspirant
contact. Five months of preparation/brainwashing to become a cult member....then you can receive Knowledge....

Gurus of his caliber justify their empty words saying that K is not for everyone and that only few can understand... with the heart.... but then, why he talks so much to his devotees? Does the heart understand words? Yeah, you can justify that too. But he talks to people's minds, doesn't he? Why people continue watching videos and satellite events WEEKLY and feel lost without his empty words if 'all what you are looking for is inside of you'? Why is there a need to listen to that empty garbage? Because premies depend on it. Isn't? Their need to hear the same over and over again is a learned, programmed behavior, because the teacher, the not so friendly teacher wants it that way. But premies are in a stage that they have surrendered their reasoning power. They cannot ask anymore why they do what they do. They got trapped by the teacher's lies and empty promises and happily have bought a dream. They became cult
members but insist they are not in a cult. (?)

Maharaji says is not a cult. Maharaji doesn't lie. Maharaji is this, and that... premies believe.... He himself tells his devotees openly to 'never question the master'. How convenient! And yes, his devotees are sheep....and do not
want to contradict the one enslaving them, and do not question him. They respect maharaji too much to even consider that maybe they are being lied to. Is that REAL freedom? You were denied the right to think for yourself and you call HIM a friend, your best friend? Something is very wrong there. But I understand.
I was were you are right now; blinded by the appearances....

Since I began to read forum 5 as an ex-premie I have noticed premies' failure to reason sincerely about our allegations, plus proof against maharaji: He is a
fraudulent person/master/guru. However, time after time premies have avoided answering our questions. Time after time these premies have attacked us with stupid arguments but avoided acknowledging OUR reasons, well explained
ones, and chose to lie to us and to themselves to continue proclaiming maharaji is a good teacher.

We cannot reason with these premies. We cannot. These people many of you ex-premies (I'm not good at it) try to reason with have lost many of their capacities in the name of happiness and bliss. They are gone mentally. They
have crossed dangerous lines and have become something very weird, very programmed, very insane, very irrational, very scared, very confused, very empty.

To understand anything one have to first want to know and the bottom line is that a devotee, a premie doesn't want to know what they are doing with their lives for the simple reason that they have bought the dream, the fantasy maharaji sells, and since they have followed it for more than two decades, they are gone. They do not welcome logic because the teacher, their best 'friend' programmed them
to hate the REAL truth. He frabricated TRUTH for them, a lie.

WE ARE FREE SINCE WE ARE BORN AND WE DO NOT NEED A GURU TO
ENSLAVE OUR MINDS INTO HIS FALSE BELIEFS.

GET IT?

I feel somewhat sorry for the premies who are trapped in the cult: There is no valid justification for the kind of silly life they live. I'm very bothered very much by
the fact that they recruit and deceive new people into the cult just because they cannot reason anymore. Becoming fanatic cult members killed their need for good logic. Don't you think?

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 17:47:48 (EDT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Re: Is reasoning with premies worthless?
Message:
The first priority of urug is to disable the mind
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:34:03 (EDT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: very Difficult indeed
Message:
You can argure back and forth until you are blue in the face, you can tic for tac, argue point, counterpoint endlessly. Most Premies are so invested in their deep embedded belief systems they are beyond reasoning.

It is a daunting task to strike a sensible and reasonable conversation
with premies of this confrontational mindset.

It is helpful to direct them to the EPO site, let them pour over the papers, posts, journey's and revealing information contained in the pages found there. the link to the EPO can be found at the top of home page here.

If after reviewing the history of the cult, the legacy, and researching the facts about M and the last 30 years of debauchery..... That premie still fiercely clings to the false notions contrived by the cult and m, Sorry.

Then.....Let'em drown, you dive in after them, they will pull you under. You threw out the life ring, if they want to fight you as you help them ashore, let go of the rope.

I see it as a futile effort to engage Premies in the constant back and forth, I am 'right', you are 'wrong' banter.

If one who reviews the facts has so little self awareness, or so little self control left that they cannot logically and honestly confront the truth about themselves and the cult; Then there is no point in continuing the conversation, or pissing match at best as I see it.

I will not waste my time trying to convince some mindless, hysterical, manipulative, disingenuios, emotionally twisted and abusive slave to quit the cult.

I do not know of any premie who doesn't have a difficult time dealing with the issues of exiting the cult, I also know that it is possible to find help in doing so, I did. But help only happens out of a sincere desire to help oneself, and there is plenty of opportunity and people available to help oneself in that endeavor here. Sincerity, creates a far different response than sarcasim if one wants help getting out of the cult

My advice, read the EPO site, the messages contained therein speaks louder and clearer than any agruement we might engage to support our positions. I will meet you in the middle there somewhere if you still want to talk, if you just want to fight, Sorry, I don't need the aggravation.... you are the weakest link......Goodbye

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 09:25:22 (EDT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Don't doubt the MASTER
Message:
Nice post Brian.

What comes down to it is that premies, the hard core ones are not allow to think for themselves, therefore cannot reason.

We thought like that, right?

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 19:54:21 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Re: very Difficult indeed
Message:
The drowning / kick them; and the 'sincere desire' metaphors are
pretty much damaged goods now, since M appropriated them a long
time ago.

Other than that, good essay. -a0aji

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:09:08 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Excellent, Brian. You said it all
Message:
Most of these premies who post here are not sincere. They are trolls, cyberstalkers and probably insane.
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:01:21 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Reasoning with Premies: Oxymoron
Message:
I agree. You said it well.

There was a point in my life when no one could tell me that m was not the lord, and that I was in a cult.

I've concluded that the Maharajism cult is much more dangerous than I ever imagined. For premies to answer questions is nearly impossible. The ones who set up the CAC site are dilerious with joy at having done some service to their lord.

How does one reason with that? I've tried. Knocked my head against that wall of cult-thinking. There's an excuse for every question we ask. There's a rationalization for every one of the guru's failings.

Yet, we're here, right? I was in the gopi club. I was physically close to the bastard. I held onto my beliefs until my mind came clean with me: this is a bunch of shit, Cynthia--he's a fraud.

So, while reasoning with premies is an oxymoron, there are premies out there who just need a push, a nudge, a possibility that they won't die if they reject the cult.

That's all I can hope for, and of course, my own increasing understanding of how I got there and out.

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:16:26 (EDT)
From: Me
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Cynthia the saviour!
Message:
So, while reasoning with premies is an oxymoron, there are premies out there who just need a push, a nudge, a possibility that they won't die if they reject the cult

Praise the Lord. The saviour of humanity has been incarnated in Cynthia. She will push and nudge the poor lost souls and save them.

Praise the Lord, praise the Lord!

Give us a break, will'ya?

I would suggest you re-read some of your posts. They are sooo pathetic.

Me

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 05:44:34 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Me
Subject: not when she just tells it
Message:
cynthis is lcear as a bell when she just tells exactly what she saw and did at DECA. doesnt sound pathetic or deranged in the least. its all reporting and the truth is enough to damn M all to hell.
in court she would make an impeccable witness. just the facts, mam.thats quite enough.
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:31:44 (EDT)
From: Cynthia (channeling Sydney)
Email: None
To: Me
Subject: Why, Thank you, Me...
Message:
Dear Me,

How pleasant! I evoked anger when I was not even trying. You stupid, fucking pea brain of a fool! You coward who doesn't even know how to face us your motherfucking real name.

You have no more power to free yourself from the grips of that conman, charlatan Guci Maharaj Ji than a flea that would rather be stuck to the pubic hairs of your Lard.

You have no power to hurt me either. You have nothing. You've given it all up to a cult! Yes, a cult. Get it?

No? Didn't think so.

Thanks for the compliment, though. I'd love to be the lord of the universe, but unfortunately, there is no such thing, asshole.

No go away you little spammer. This is a site for ex-premies. You stalker of people who aren't afraid of the real truth, asshole.

You want some swearing? You got it, fool!

You want to take ME, Sydney on? There is no such thing. No one tries. I am the protector of the innocent. I am the provider of escape from the crude likes of you and your crippled master.

Bye, bye....

Sydney (Cynthia J. Gracie)

P.S. RAWAT IS A FUCKING ASSHOLE, and YES, I WILL PROVIDE HELP TO THOSE WHO SEEK TO REMOVE THEMSELVES FROM THE CULT!

BUT NOT YOU, OR ME, OR WHOEVER THE FUCK YOU ARE, PINHEAD

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 01:38:53 (EDT)
From: Hey Victoria
Email: None
To: Cynthia (channeling Sydney)
Subject: Do you think
Message:
Miss C Graceless is as ugly on the outside as on the inside?

Sadly methinks tis must be so.

No-one could spew such bile without being seriously socially maladjusted.

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 09:58:23 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Hey Victoria
Subject: Do you think...
Message:
you are an authority on people when you are in a cult, brainwashed, without your mind to think rationally, reasonably, and with some semblence of intelligence?

Me thinks, not

What, exactly does ''socially maladjusted'' mean?

You couldn't know how beautiful I am, both on the inside, AND, on the outside....you wouldn't believe how beautiful my voice is, both in speaking and singing.

You can't believe anything except what Maharaji tells you to believe, and unless you release your mind from him, you have no business making an opinion about me or anyone.

Socially maladjusted. Pot calling the kettle black.

Do you have a name?

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 05:49:47 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Hey Victoria
Subject: who got her that way?-unohoo
Message:
socially maladjusted? gee. i cant imagine why anyone who devoutly believed and obeyed a self appointed world savior, to the point of leaving the world and giving it all to the gooroo for the better part of a decade, along with 20 thousand others , would come out 'socially maladjusted', can you? gee. i jus cant understand it.
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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 04:52:02 (EDT)
From: Cyberstalker Vigilante
Email: None
To: Hey Victoria
Subject: Save above post, Cynthia. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 09:20:56 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Cyberstalker Vigilante
Subject: I'm saving all the nasty ones...n/t
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 10:37:29 (EDT)
From: CV
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: You must get this sick one Cynth!
Message:
You stupid, fucking pea brain of a fool! You coward who doesn't even know how to face us your motherfucking real name.

You have no more power to free yourself from the grips of that conman, charlatan Guci Maharaj Ji than a flea that would rather be stuck to the pubic hairs of your Lard.

You have no power to hurt me either. You have nothing. You've given it all up to a cult! Yes, a cult. Get it?

No? Didn't think so.

Thanks for the compliment, though. I'd love to be the lord of the universe, but unfortunately, there is no such thing, asshole.

No go away you little spammer. This is a site for ex-premies. You stalker of people who aren't afraid of the real truth, asshole.

You want some swearing? You got it, fool!

You want to take ME, Sydney on? There is no such thing. No one tries. I am the protector of the innocent. I am the provider of escape from the crude likes of you and your crippled master.

Bye, bye....

Sydney (Cynthia J. Gracie)

P.S. RAWAT IS A FUCKING ASSHOLE, and YES, I WILL PROVIDE HELP TO THOSE WHO SEEK TO REMOVE THEMSELVES FROM THE CULT!

BUT NOT YOU, OR ME, OR WHOEVER THE FUCK YOU ARE, PINHEAD

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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 16:58:08 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: CV
Subject: That was Sydney....
Message:
I let her out just for you LOLOL!
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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 17:08:35 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Sydney must be related to
Message:

Thelma the Thunderstealing Bitch! ;)

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Date: Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 13:49:26 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Actually Sydney was quite mild that day :) [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:09:10 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Cynthia (channeling Sydney)
Subject: OLE!
Message:
Man, some are so fucking stupid! So quick to throw the tomatoes not seeing they are the ones deserving them all...

When I read the forum as a premie at least I had the brain to don't post. How silly and childish. So sure of... nothing.

Loved your answer. OLE! :)

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:27:29 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Reasoning with Premies: Oxymoron
Message:
Cynthia,
Were you ever around M and his kids at the same time? I'm wondering how he treats them? Does anyone have any experience of this, as in does his behavior change if they are around to be surgary instead of abusive?
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:19:57 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: Re: Reasoning with Premies: Oxymoron
Message:
Hi btdt,

I was around m during the Deca project. He often brought the whole family with him to the small warehouse in Hialeah and later to the big Complex.

I never saw any interaction with m, marolyn, and his children. After all, most of us were not X-rated. When he came to our office in the design dept., Marolyn, the nanny (can't remember her name) and the kids had a playroom off of his office.

When he came into our offices it was strictly business. The kids stayed in their play area so I'm not the one to ask about how he treated his family. I never was at the Miami residence except whenever he was out of town.

Anth was their private tutor. He would know more about this, as well as Michael Dettmers and Mike Donner.

So, while I was close to him a lot, and had a lot of security information about his ETA's, etc., where he was, etc., I didn't see any interaction.

Best,
Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:53:07 (EDT)
From: a True Devotee
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: is Cynthia the Lord??
Message:
I may have Proof that 'Cynthia' is the Superior Power in Person here.

I had started a message on my computer...titled...'Reasoning and Premies: Oymoron'...and then I left to go to the gym...when i got Back...Cynthia had already read my mind...and my deepest musings and had posted the EXACT same title for me......Who do you think you are...the Lord of The Universe???

What...you say...You ARE the Lord, God???...Oh, You Say, 'Cynthia' (third person) is the Superior Power in Person...How humble of you...to defer your Glory to the Third Person...Im sure to make yourself more Relatable.. Your Obvious Omniscience as Evidenced in your Prescient Post gives me the evidence I need to Confirm you as the Deity......and since I only read of you and from you on this forum..I can now begin to Project onto you my idealized version of 'Cynthia' the Lord Incarnate. I now view every piece of information I obtained about you in the context of a 'Perfect Being'...such that even what other people might call character flaws or even immorality, I would know these are simply Your Lila...a test to see if I had TRUE Devotion...or would be swayed by the Monmot's Rants...And if you later deny ever claiming to be God...I will know it is only so that others may someday have the priviledge of finding out Your Divinity for themselves....Thank You Cynthia for giving me this Life..This Opportunity...I bow down before such a Wonderful Lordess...

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:00:02 (EDT)
From: Me
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Enslaved? Noooo!
Message:
WE ARE FREE SINCE WE ARE BORN AND WE DO NOT NEED A GURU TO
ENSLAVE OUR MINDS INTO HIS FALSE BELIEFS. GET IT?

You think yourself free?

This is the best joke in years!

You are enslaved by:
- your prejudices
- your concepts
- your judgement of yourself and others
- the ideas of others that you have assumed as yours
- the fact that you post here so often
- the fact that you consider yourself right and others wrong
- the fact that you have a NEED to 'reason with premies'

Your are not free lady. Your are as enslaved as you can get.

Wake up!

Me

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:21:31 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Me
Subject: get a proper job, Rawat!
Message:
All premie posts will now be recorded to show that they are harassing exes and intimidating them and attempting to lure them back into a cult which is escalating in madness and fanaticism and paranoia which can only lead to a Jonestown in Amaroo. Actually they won't need KoolAid because Rawat will bore them to death.
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:31:23 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: hahahahahahhahaha
Message:
hahahahahhahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :);):):)
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:25:39 (EDT)
From: the other ME
Email: None
To: Me
Subject: I am a free person, you idiot!
Message:
Your are not free lady. Your are as enslaved as you can get.

Enslaved? Please, give me a brake.

My use of free is enough for me. Assuming perhaps that your master is telling you the truth? Think again. Oh, sorry. I forgot thinking is not allowed...

Definition:

free (fr)
adj. fre·er, fre·est

Not imprisoned or enslaved; being at liberty.
Not controlled by obligation or the will of another: felt free to go.

Not affected or restricted by a given condition or circumstance: a healthy animal, free of disease; free from need.
Not subject to a given condition.
Not subject to external restraint: “Comment is free but facts are sacred” (Charles Prestwich Scott).
Not occupied or used: a free locker.
Not taken up by scheduled activities: free time between classes.
Unobstructed; clear: a free lane.
Unguarded in expression or manner; open; frank.

Given, made, or done of one's own accord; voluntary or spontaneous: a free act of the will; free choices.

Capiche?

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:22:16 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: the other ME
Subject: Re: I am a free person, you idiot!
Message:
Well said Silvia. Of course we have prejudices and other shortcoming s but we are not slaves to them. Premies think that only they are saved. Yes, there are slaves (in the real sense) in India, many, more than anywhere else in the world. But just tell my neighbor who just got back form surfing and is now leaving for the Burning Man festival (a huge party in the desert) that he is a slave. Bullshit.

M has nothing to say to westerners. We are free. What this premie means is that he has been ''saved.'' And that we are damned. Same old fundamentalist religious bullshit.

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:51:01 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: I got it, but I got the double intention 2
Message:
Saved=Free, sure...they are free. Breath in, breath out. Counting beads, rosary, praying. Same bullshit.

I'm content just BEING. Oh Tao...:)Sweet reality...

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:19:14 (EDT)
From: Me
Email: None
To: the other ME
Subject: Definition
Message:
ob·sess (b-ss, b-)
v. ob·sessed, ob·sess·ing, ob·sess·es
v. tr.
To preoccupy the mind of excessively.

v. intr.
To have the mind excessively preoccupied with a single emotion or topic.

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:16:20 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Me
Subject: Yeah, YOU!
Message:
is called fanaticism!
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 12:08:16 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Me
Subject: Re: Enslaved? Noooo!
Message:
Your name is me?

Come on! The content of your post above is filled with prejudices, concepts, judgment of others, the ideas of another (Maharaji) that you have consumed, the fact you consider youself right and Silvia wrong, and your need to attach youself to the need to respond to open and honest discussion here--a place where former followers of Maharaji come to have discussion, and you posted here.

You can't see the forest for the trees. The forest is real freedom, not that big ole log who sits on his throne in order to keep you as HIS, and enslave you with his brainwash.

Wake up! Wake Up! WAKE UP!

Me, Cynthia J. Gracie

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:24:47 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: It's the Turing Machine Troll, Cynthia
Message:
Don't waste your precious breath talking to it.
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:36:34 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: I know, Sometimes I can't help it...
Message:
How're doing Patsy? That was a good one, ha ha ha.

Cynthia, lord of the universe LOL!

Be well,
Love,
Cynthia

P.S. I'm done with this troll.....:)

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:05:40 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Pranam, oh Lordess. Cyn and Sil
Message:
I hope you are saving all the posts made to you by premie stalkers. I am. He he.
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:21:52 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: From the Lordess, Cynthia
Message:
Now, if I am the Lordess of the Universe, I want the following things:

1) A Hummer, I need it for winter driving;
2) A Mercedes, I need it for summer driving;
3) A house on the Malibu bluff, I need it for pleasure;
4) A jet, I need it to see my family more often;
5) A helicopter, so I can get to my jet faster;
6) A yacht, so all my ex-premie friends can enjoy a nice cruise;
7) A cook, a maid, and a personal servant, so I don't have to do it myself anymore;
8) A throne, just a simple, humble little throne with a bidet;
9) A residence somewhere in Europe--never been there;
10) A lot of money for free--I'm sick of working for my own money!

The list will go on as time passes, and I will offer nothing in return. No meditations, no brainwashing, no video programmes, not even darshan lines. My feet are too big anyway.

I will also guarantee that no religious organizations will be set up to evade taxes and I will send you all reports of my financial standings on a quarterly basis.

A full moon out tonight...la..la..la.la...My name means Goddess of the Moon...tra la...

A full moon to Maharaji! And believe me, mine is big!

Cynthia, Official Ex-Premie

Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 16:23:48 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: From the Lordess, Cynthia
Message:
This is a riot!!!! Where do I sign up for a franchise?
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:18:48 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Pranam, oh Lordess. Cyn and Sil
Message:
hahahhahahahahaha Just in case i will too. How funny. :(:
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 16:21:22 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Re: Pranam, oh Lordess. Cyn and Sil
Message:
Silvia,
I don't know if you noticed the link below that Pat kindly helped me with- 're:sausages, frankfurters and links.' I thought you might find it interesting because this site states how cults can give a normal, healthy person psycological problems when they enter a cult. Sometimes, at least to me, it feels so goooooooooood to have something I've intuitively known substantiated in print. Makes me feel like, see I wasn't crazy after all, then, and I'm not crazy now.

I'm touched how honest you are about the emotional hardships life with knowledge and Maharaji have caused you. And your sense of humor is infectios.

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 17:21:15 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: Pranam, oh NEW Lordess. Cyn and Sil
Message:
I read all your posts. I'm sooooooo glad for you!! :) also to see that our presence here can help others.

I am not a good writer and English is my second language so I don't post much. I have come here for the last two years to recover my sanity; as you it was such a relief when I finally understood it was just a cult.

I used to be funnier....hahahahaha. :);)
Have fun!Thanks.

Silvia

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 16:21:19 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Re: Pranam, oh Lordess. Cyn and Sil
Message:
Silvia,
I don't know if you noticed the link below that Pat kindly helped me with- 're:sausages, frankfurters and links.' I thought you might find it interesting because this site states how cults can give a normal, healthy person psycological problems when they enter a cult. Sometimes, at least to me, it feels so goooooooooood to have something I've intuitively known substantiated in print. Makes me feel like, see I wasn't crazy after all, then, and I'm not crazy now.

I'm touched how honest you are about the emotional hardships life with knowledge and Maharaji have caused you. And your sense of humor is infectios.

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:23:26 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Happy full moon you goddesses [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 16:16:34 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: :-D* [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 05:55:20 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: All
Subject: carl's post
Message:
is carl's 8/30 post on LG brought over? I can't find it and it's good. If so, excuse the new thread.
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 07:45:55 (EDT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: Re: carl's post
Message:
Here 'tis: http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=premieforum&id=5157.90546191065518

Posted: Thurs, Aug 30, 2001 at 08:20:57 (EDT)
Original: NA
Posted by: Carl Recipient: All
Email Address: Not Provided
Browser Type: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt)
Message Count: 103 visits (5 today, 103 this week, 5 this month, 103 this year)

Subject: For Harry to consider.
Message:

You say something very curious, Harry: 'So, the central thrust of this man's [M's} teachings has virtually nothing to do with lifestyle, judgement, circumstances and personal behavior choices.'

Let me ask: Just how valid, sincere, inspiring or effective would be the teaching of a writer who doesn't write, of a musician who won't or cannot perform adequately, of a meditator who doesn't meditate, of an investment counselor who begs for alms, a mathematician who cannot count to ten?

Some people may be excused for thinking that a 'true spiritual master' would proffer more than banalities and impart more than public domain meditation techniques in an atmosphere of secrecy and exclusivity while exacting personal adoration and cash from his devotees.

Does M position himself as God incarnate, or even greater than God? Yes he does. Now, don't be coy, Harry. You know this is the fundamental subtext to the whole enterprise.

Does M now lie about that? Yes he does.

Does M continue to arrange for activities such as arti/darshan/footkissing to take place? Yes he does.

Did M cause the death of another man and lie about it to avoid all responsibility? Yes he did.

Did M knowingly put children and others into harms way by deciding to facilitate and promote the proselytising activities of certain 'saints' who had violent and/or psychosexual pathologies, thereby inflicting serious physical and psychological damage upon a number of victims? Yes he did.

Did or does M regularly ingest alcohol and other drugs while at the same time promoting an experience of inner divinity and peace, and yet condemn the use of the same drugs he ingests? Evidently, yes.

Does he claim or assume a divine status, far above mere mortals, for doing this. Yes he does.

Does M fail to see any hypocrisy in this? Evidently, yes.

Does M enrich himself and his immediate family in an astoundingly lavish and opulent lifestyle far, far in excess of any need, primarily on donated or psychologically coerced labor of 'followers' around the world? Yes he does.

Does M regard himself as above the laws of this world that are designed to mete out justice equally for all people regardless of their social standing? One wonders about that.

I would like you to review the following material and report back please:

Identifying Traits of Abusive Groups

We offer a shorthand list followed by a longer list of cultic traits compiled from: Recovery From Cults, by Michael D. Langone, Captive Hearts, Captive Minds, by Madeleine Tobias and Janja Lalich, 'Crazy' Therapies, by Margaret Singer and Janja Lalich, Combating Cult Mind Control, by Steven Hassan

Michael Langone, in his article 'Cults, Violence, and the Millennium,' suggests the following three characteristics as essential in the definition of a cultic group:

1. centralized control by a charismatic leader
2. an us-versus-them mentality that isolates
3. a lack of tolerance for dissent

Compiled list:

1.Control-oriented leadership – leader claims to be an all-knowing, liberated being.

2.Hierarchical structure with an elite inner circle – including leader’s assistants.

3.Group leader not accountable to any authorities, as are, for example: military commanders, and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations.

4.Polarized us-versus-them, black-or-white mentality causing conflict with wider society.

5.Manipulation of members by alternating guilt/anxiety/fear/ostracism and attention.

6.Group perception of being spiritually unique/elite and separate from normal culture.

7.Denunciation of other spiritual/religious leaders and groups.

8.Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about group and leader.

9.Spiritual practices emphasize experience rather than rationality.

10.Sexual abuse - leader uses power to sexually exploit members.

11.Economic exploitation of members by leader and assistants.

12.Confidentiality of members private affairs (legal, medical) violated by leader and assistants.

13.Members’ subservience to group causes them to cut or weaken ties with family, friends, and personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining group.

14.Reliance on outside professional help, doctors, therapists, etc., discouraged.

15.Leader poses as self-sacrificing divine agent who only promotes members’ well-being.

16.Service is inner directed toward the group not the surrounding community.

17.Revamping of members’ cultural/moral values to suit leader’s lifestyle and program.

18.Conformity to group’s/leader’s values, life style, mode of dress, diet, esthetics, and so on.

19.Promotion of dependence on group/leader – often disguised.

20.Important personal decisions must be approved by leader – members seek his blessing.

21.Phobia induction vis-à-vis leaving the group/leader.

22.Painful exit process – ex-members ridiculed, threatened, and dumped.

Note: If you check any of these items as characteristics of the group you are concerned about, and particularly if you check many of them, you should reexamine the group and your relationship to it. Such reexamination usually runs against the dictates of the group leaders and will be difficult for the member to do. Begin by speaking to outside health and legal professionals and ex-members. If your group is indeed healthy and non-abusive, there is nothing to fear from taking these cautionary steps.


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-

Thought provoking, yes? You see, Harry, life is great, even while challenging one's assumptions and delusions. Your breath by breath awareness and freedom can only improve when you are free of cultish dependency. You may even find yourself 'closer to God' and much more in tune with, and in love with, the breath of life.

Good luck, buddy.
Carl

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 07:44:35 (EDT)
From: ggg
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: Re: Carl's 2nd post to Harry
Message:
Here you are:-

Harry,

Let's look at this then, without rancor:

'Carl,

Other than reciting the telephone-enhanced version of Dettmers' laundry list and re-printing your handbook, which could apply to everyone from the Dallas Cowboys to the Rastafarians, you haven't dealt with a single question I posed.


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Your questions do not address the real issues, one of which is the hypocrisy of a man positioning himself as God Almighty, and then attempting to publicly backpedal that when it became inconvenient or embarrassing, yet to perpetuate that concept as an underlying premise of his current entrepreneurship. Sorry, but that is frankly dishonest. Surely you must see this.

As far as the 'laundry list' and the cult 'handbook', they are both useful compendia of salient issues, given our mutual interest. Although I understand your discomfort and denial with dealing with the 'laundry list' and marvel at your blithe dismissal -- more like willful ignorance -- of those questions (btw, what do you mean by 'telephone enhanced'?), the 'handbook' is, as I said, a useful tool for evaluating whatever group with which you may choose to be involved: Unitarian, Rastafarian, Rotarian, or even Mahararian. Enjoy.


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Here they are again. If you're going to attempt to answer, please do so based on something resembling actual reality from the last two decades. Recycled, revised and re-written conclusions of others doesn't pass muster.


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I suppose the ten commandments wouldn't past muster either, not having been generated within the last few years. I suspect nothing an 'ex' writes will pass muster with you (as if one needed your approval!) Don't forget, however, that the whole K trip is/was couched in an absolutist, eternal and cosmic framework. Timeless truths, you might say. So your two decade threshhold of tolerance is a little silly. But no matter, we shall go forward.


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As far as 'banalities' and 'public domain meditation techniques' (another parroted slogan) goes, those are clearly in the eye of the beholder and I'd imagine you wouldn't have characterized them so at other points in your own life.


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The 'banalities' refer to the self-evident common sense notions that M has himself been 'parroting' for years. As for 'public domain meditation techniques' (a useful phrase, even as a cliche it seems to threaten you a bit . . . sorry, brother!) I still practice them daily and derive IMMENSE benefit from doing so. While it is true I would not have dared to think of them in these terms, that I do so now in no way diminishes them. In fact, having left the self-limiting manacles of cult involvement, the enjoyment is much more sublime. But I really don't care whether you believe that or not, sorry.


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I see profound wisdom, delivered regularly with humor, empathy and clarity, and the strongest, most effective and simplest way to completely and reliably center and satisfy a person being offered. It has worked for me through every conceivable stage and thrill and spill of my life. It has worked with and without various belief systems. It has worked beautifully for every imaginable type of human being, utterly independent of their location and circumstance. If that's meaningless to you, then so be it. I think that's an astounding achievment.


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Here we may have points of agreement, Harry. Like many, perhaps most, 'exes', I still value the practice of meditation. And I agree that it is a most efficacious centering and peace-inducing practice. It has accompanied me through almost 30 years of, shall we say, an interesting life, and I cherish the inner world as my refuge and source of wisdom and love. But what we need to recognize is that it is not the big secret -- nor need it be -- about which M makes such an issue, and, it must be acknowledged, through which he has amassed an inordinately lavish, if not decadent, personal fortune. I understand you will find it convenient to rationalize his behaviour, and that is your right, and your problem. Others have a right to question that, and that is their problem. Meanwhile, the business keeps chugging along, with the K as carrot that can never be bought, but which is paid for over and over and over again. Some people have an instinctive problem with that. You may not appreciate that. That's fine. The thing is, the K is simply not the exclusive province of M and Co. Believe it or not.


---

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This time, please try to read what's actually written, not your own mental mutterings.


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Now Harry, please don't be snotty. Everything you write could just as well be called 'mental mutterings', yes? Don't resort to cheap shots, it is unbecoming and dishonorable.


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What percentage of Maharaji's time and teachings would you say have been dedicated to telling others how to behave, how not to behave, who to fall in love with, what to look like, what to eat, how to express yourself, who to have sex with or what to believe blindly? How much marriage counseling and love life advice has Maharaji given from the stage? Or off it? Whose personal habits have you heard him publicly criticize? What age, physical condition, sexual preference, religious background, nationality, literacy level or affluence status have you seen him unable to deal with or accept?


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Again, Harry, these aren't even the issues worth addressing. 'Percentage of time' on your own 'laundry list'? Come on, lad. Get with the program: HE is/was/will ever be the self-styled incarnate 'Lord of the Universe' (whether formerly explicitly stated or currently denied yet implicitly communicated). As such he meticulously directed the behaviours of tens of thousands who, willingly, innocently, accepted the whole routine. I am surprised that you are surprised that people may have been sincere enough to take him at his word, and who were dedicated to the knowledge and to him personally, at what ever distance, and who felt profoundly betrayed when his manifestly selfish agenda became harder and harder to deny. Go figure.


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What does any of this gossip, snottiness, victimhood and speculation have to do with what he teaches? Which happens to be, in case you've forgotten, regular reminders to find, know and immerse one's self in the pure, perfect and infinite within. That hasn't changed one bit. If you don't find the infinite and timeless to be impressive and it's a little too ordinary and mundane for your taste...so be it.


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Again, points of agreement and points of divergence: What you characterize as 'gossip, snottiness, victimhood and speculation' I might call 'personal testimony, fair criticism, sharing and communication'. Eye of the beholder, indeed. The 'reminders' are sweet, clear and charming for many, no doubt. That's fine and dandy. But there is a powerful subtext that accompanies all of these reminders, no? To acknowledge M as the only one who can afford you 'salvation' and you had better understand that or you are damned, and, by the way, 'please support me monetarily in my 'work' '.


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Can you answer based on what you have seen and felt, yourself?


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I always do, Harry.


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Anything you've 'heard' is of no interest to me whatsoever, as I've spent enough time around Maharaji to judge for myself how he is both on and off 'stage.


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You are not the only one, my friend.


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Do you realize that the behavioral cage you've tried to place Maharaji into is entirely based on theory and doesn't apply to anyone else on earth? Do you apply the same standard to what a brilliant musician is supposed to act like, what a painter is supposed to eat, should architects enjoy after dinner cognacs? How much should a writer weigh? What should or shouldn't Ray Charles smoke? How long should a mathematician's hair be? Are exceptionally perceptive people not allowed to notice beauty in earthly as well as ephemeral formats? Does that make them 'lower', higher or neither?


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Again, you persist in deflecting the main issues into these 'red-herring' ideas. Neither I nor anyone I know has tried to 'place M into a behavioural cage' (that wouldn't be a slogan now would it? Just joshing!) Seriously, no rational or wisdom-loving person would question or judge M (or any teacher, or anyone for that matter) about issues of deep importance, based upon the length of his hair or his diet or weight or superficial markers. Come now, this is not the issue. The main issue has more to do with his being honest and straightforward about his claims and revisions of claims, to acknowledge and try to rectify his human fuck-ups (please excuse the term, but they are legion and well-documented elsewhere), and to diminish or dismantle the abhorrent citadel of greed that is his most evident life's work.

You know, 'exceptionally perceptive people' are going to notice beauty in earthly as well as ephemeral formats whether they are 'allowed' to or not. This also is not the question. No one denies anyone that right. The point is, Harry, many of us have noted a profound imbalance in our lives as cogs in M's world, K notwithstanding. Part of that has to do with the dissonance between M's relentlessly vaunted 'divinity' and the abject codependency of the average premie. So, does that make them 'lower', higher or neither? You tell me.

Best wishes,
Carl

P.S.: Here is a selection from Lao Tzu. Hope you won't object that it predates our era by 2500 years or so!

'Be humble and you will remain entire.'
He who has little will receive.
He who has much will be embarrassed.
Therefore the Sage keeps to One and becomes the standard for the world.
He does not display himself; therefore he shines.
He does not approve himself; therefore he is noted.
He does not praise himself; therefore he has merit.
He does not glory in himself; therefore he excels.
And because he does not compete, therefore no one in the world can compete with him.
The ancient saying 'Be humble and you will remain entire' --
Can this be regarded as mere empty words?
Indeed he shall return home entire.

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 10:03:32 (EDT)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: ggg
Subject: I Agree. Brilliant Post
Message:
Carl's Post very eloquently states the core of Maha/Rawat's Deceit. a Must Read.....Carl..if you are around, I would very much enjoy hearing more from you on this Forum...All The Best..Rich
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 15:13:26 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: RichMandrake
Subject: Carl's post BEST OF LIFES GREAT
Message:
Beautifully written, Carl.
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 03:56:13 (EDT)
From: Bang the Magnificent
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Life on the farm
Message:
In my present incarnation as Bang the Magnificent, a Mighty Eagle of strength and wisdom untold, I was flying the thermals, at one with life, feeling good. As I glided towards earth, I spied a desolate little farm where all the animals were arguing and a bickering, throwing rocks and insults every which way. Coming to land in their midst they at once gathered around my formidable being and sat down silent and respectful and asked my counsel, for I sat upon the board of the wise and was know for my wisdom and forbearance.
“The problem as I see it” I began “is that the pigs think that the only way to live is a pigs way and the cows then argue that the only truth is a cows truth, etc, etc, when in fact truth is relative, not absolute. Life is beautiful in the infiniteness of possibility, at which point all the animals went “ahhhhhhhhh”.
The farmyard bitch then tool slight at the way one of the sheep was looking at her, and picking up a handful of horse pooh, let fly straight at the sheep. Now this sheep was no bunny and just before impact lithely swayed to one side. The odorous projectile sailed past and hit the baboon, (who had just climbed onto his soup box, puffed up and full of self importance), hit him right in the face, knocking him off the box, right onto his bum, forcing the banana even further up his ass, causing him to scream in delight.
The scene degenerated into an all in brawl, at which point Bang the Magnificent remembered a prior engagement and flew up into the heavens, glorying in the magic of flight and hoping they would soon discover their wings.
Bang the All Wise
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 08:37:53 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Bang the Magnificent
Subject: Re: Life on the farm
Message:

get lost

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 05:46:29 (EDT)
From: George Orwell
Email: None
To: Bang the Magnificent
Subject: All Rawat cult members are equal but....
Message:
some are more equal than others. Now, if you are the head pig that's really equal. Some might say you're chasing a pig in a poke; while, others might just say look out because THAT PIG's been a pokin'
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 05:23:45 (EDT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Bang the Magnificent
Subject: into bestiality, are you?
Message:
i do it to cats and white mice. its the fur, y'see.
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Date: Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 00:18:31 (EDT)
From: Bang
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Could this be love?
Message:
Yeah, the fur gets me in too. Doing anything after the show?
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 04:32:11 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Bang the Magnificent
Subject: Re: Life on the farm - a load of crap
Message:
Go play with your toy trains, Cacweasel.
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 05:23:22 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Life on the farm - a load of crap
Message:
This site had a great deal of insite into cult behavior and psycological repercusions (sp). If I can do that link thing. Might take me a few tries in which case, I do apologize in advance.
[ Page Link ]
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 05:30:45 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: Re: Life on the farm - a load of crap
Message:
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/g2699/0004/2699000433/p1/article.jhtml

I can't make the url link work. UGH...........................
[ Page Link ]

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 05:34:06 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: Sausages, frankfurters and links
Message:
Copy and paste the link into the box marked ''Link URL.'' Type a name in the box marked ''Link Name.'' Voila. Like this:
[ Interesting article ]
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 05:38:22 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Sausages, frankfurters and links
Message:
Goody!!! Thank you. Now it makes sense. Where were you when I was taking chemistry in college for the fifth time and had to change my major because a section of my brain is missing? Oh, never mind, I got knowledge instead and thought I got a whole lot smarter....!!!!!
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 00:00:48 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: At the Back of the North Wind
Message:
Here's the ELK report on what Maharaji said in Buenos Aries:

During his speech on the first day, it touched me very much when he said that for the students who are listening to the master and doing what he says, he will help them succeed. And that this is for sure.

At the second day, he told a very beautiful story about a conversation between a rock and the water flowing in a river..

The rock asked the water where it goes. And the water responds that it flows everywhere, into fields, mountains, valleys, until it reaches the ocean. Then it flies to the clouds, falls down as snow flakes, melts and only to come back again to the river.

The rock was willing to do the same journey and asked how the water could take him with it.

'Only if you can change to a form where you can come and flow with me,' said the water.

Maharaji encouraged us to change to a form where we can flow with the heart and with the breath, instead of staying where we are - fixed.

We have the choice, he said

And then, he talked about how comfortable he feels with a particular pair of shoes. He has been wearing them for so many years and does not want to change, because they feel so comfortable. When something feels comfortable, he explained, we do not want to change it. But regardless of this, we have to pass through all the changes that are necessary, like that rock, until we reach a place where we are comfortable living with the heart, and admiring the breath. Only then we will not feel the need to change any more.

We need to o transform, until we get to a point where transformation is no longer needed - where we are flowing with the heart, with the breath, like that river...

Romantic, isn't it? Reminds me of a children's fantasy. Sigh ... it's so beautiful. Makes me want to start my very own CAC-type site.

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 04:19:02 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Life is great
Message:
Now, Jim, please don't give me a hard time. I've been itching to make a post with that title. But I was just thinking that I couldn't just talk about the obviously beautiful things like rivers, waterfalls, clouds, flowers and the breath the way Rev Rawat does.

My most recent ''Life is Very Hard'' experience happened when I was rushed to hospital two years and two months ago suffering from peritonitis. Unfortunately I am stoical when it comes to pain and I had already endured five days of septic shock. (Organs and glands etc begin to shut down or get damaged after two days of septic shock.) I really did not care if I lived or died by the time I got to the emergency room. I was told that I had a fifty percent chance of survival if I had surgery. In fact I was half dead already and then ''died'' on the operating table and had to be rescusitated (sp?.)

For days afterwards I was on assisted breathing and eleven IVs per day until finally I pulled through and found out that I had a colostomy and had to shit out of a hole in my abdomen through which the colon dangled into a plastic bag. A week later Chuck and Andy brought me home. I've lived in SF for 21 years, longer than anywhere else in the world, and I know it so well that I barely look at the sites anymore. The drive home was like a trip through the Garden of Eden for me. It was like I felt when I first took acid or got darshan. I was looking at the world with Adam's eyes, like I had never seen it before.

My euphoria lasted for months after that. I got used to the fact that I had to shit in a bag which often leaked, or irritated the skin or my colon would fart embarrassingly when I least expected it (no valve to control the emissions.) I saw how it was possible for people to live with the most dreadful disabilities like blindness or paralyisis and still enjoy life. After all a hole in the abdomen is not up there with cancer or AIDS. Sure I missed my asshole. It really is the most under-appreciated organ, very efficiently designed and perfectly placed. I was feeling so good and life was so great I created a funny colostomy bag website which helped many people and still does. (I wrote an ode to my colostomy bag which Chuck said was better than odors from a colostomy bag.)

I felt so high that I decided I really needed to share my good fortune with others. I attributed my happiness to Knowledge so I decided to go back and do service and propagate Knowledge after not being involved with the cult for 17 years. One day I will write about that in detail. For now suffice it to say that I found that half of the premies in SF were miserable, some suicidal, a few depressed and all but two neurotic (and those were the mavericks.) I could not believe it.

I tried to steer the focus of service into helping these people and making sure that they were mentally healthy (or at least employed and functioning) before bringing any new people to K. I knew that I could not introduce my friends to the premies with a straight face and say: ''These people, like me, have benefitted from K and M.'' It was obvious that they had not. Most never meditated or made any effort to be strong, healthy or even employed and got all their juice from watching videos.

I also found that service consisted of ''synchronized participation'' in ''training seminars'' and ''fund raising.'' I kept thinking that I could change it. People listened to me but there always came the point where I would be told ''Maharaji would not approve of that.'' I said fuck it and walked. But it was not easy. It took me quite a few months to accept defeat.

Yes, life is great if you are strong, optimistic, mentally healthy and...well, sane. And at least half of the premies in SF are not (sorry guys - you know what I'm talking about, you know - collecting welfare for mental disabilities, having horrendous financial problems, being insecure and lacking self-confidence, drifting from one pointless job to another, being alienated from friends and family, suffering from hypochondria and depression.) Okay the other half is fairly well-adjusted to society and quite contented but I don't know how they can live with themselves seeing the plight of the other half. It is disgustingly uncivilized. This lack of civility, sanity and democracy is what drove me out of the cult.

Rev Rawat does not teach the importance of mental health probably because he is so arrogant he thinks he knows the answers. But his own behavior and his speeches show that the man is not sane or balanced or even sensible. Or maybe he is quite contented and knows that his scam will be over if he actually helps his devotees. Once they're sane they won't need him anymore. Who knows? Who cares? Is the crime of arrogant ignorance worse or better than selfish and cynical exploitation?

Yep, life is great if you're sane and happy but half the premies are not. And they all seem either to post here or create websites while the sane half boasts of their financial, familial and professional success and how many guitars they bought this week. Give me a break, guys. Wake up and be honest enough to admit that whatever you have got is a result of your own efforts and choices. If Life's great it's probably because you are fairly sane and strong. If Life Sucks it's probably because you are expecting the master to help you. He won't. He is really only interested in helping himself and there's nothing wrong with that (we all do it) as long as he does not help himself at the expense of others.

The most Monty Pythnesque aspect of this whole set up was that these miserable, indigent, dysfunctional premies were supposed to propagate K (happiness) to Californians who were having fun making lots of money, being dot.commies, surfing and partying in some of the world's finest restaurants, clubs and theaters. Rawat has nothing to offer anyone in the west.

PS For those who haven't been around for a while: I had the colostomy reversed and I have got my own asshole back again after nearly two years of shitting in a plastic bag and life's great when you have a fully functioning asshole and a sane mind.

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 11:17:27 (EDT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Life is great
Message:
This post has absolutely made my day, Pat, and it's only just begun! You got your asshole back! This is great news. I didn't even know they could do that! Plus, you created that colostomy support site in your journey out of and into assholiness. Life really is great!

I just read a book about my particular health condition which finally makes sense (after 20 years of partial explanations). It explains how you can reverse it by addressing 6 factors simultaneously, rather than sequentially. Sounds a bit like spinning plates, but the bottom -ah - line is that I now feel much more confident that I can reverse my problem too.

Ah... I'm so grateful!

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 13:56:52 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Re: Life is great - of course you will
Message:
Sweetie dahling, I know that you will reverse your condition. I once was sick for 8 years after I first turned against the urug in 1980. Practicing scientific sanity cured me. Mens sana in corporo sanum. Holism.

Of course it was that that set me apart from the poor miserable premies when I went back last year. They relied on the urug to tell them what to think and he's nuts.

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 11:04:29 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Good Post, Pat...
Message:
I appreciate your frank and honest style. Life is very good, even when physical and emotional afflictions get in our way. My way, I should say.

I also appreciated your statement about missing your asshole. And Tonette's list of organs one can live without. Nurses are saints, aren't they? I've had a few surgeries in my life and the worst and most difficult was a hysterectomy when I was 32. Ovaries, cervix, everything was removed, including my appendix.

I got a terrible post-operative infection (not unusual in hospitals) and was so sick and I remember those nights when one angel of a nurse would come into my room and stroke my forehead, and say ''there, there, it's all right, you'll be okay.''

Learning to live without my reproductive organs was difficult, but in the long run I have no side affects at all. Although I have recently learned I'm not exempt from menopause.

Going through these kinds of experiences gave me more of an appreciation of my life, my husband, my sisters, and my mother.

You mentioned living sane in this world. Taking responsibility for one's success and failures is a lesson learned hard. I'm reading Steven King's latest epic Dreamcatchers. You may scoff at Steven King, but I love mamy books because he has a way of combining rich writing with satire, as well as speaking in the voices of regular people. He hooks me, and I'm forced to read late into the night and laugh. (I'd never want to get into his head.)

The discussion in this thread about the Maharajism mediation and how it can cause insanity reminded me of one word King used in the book that I read last night. The ''unsane.'' I liked that word. Never heard it before.

I laughed because when I was a premie, I was unsane. I was a drone, looking for scraps of prassad from his unholy plate, seeking to please, and meditating a lot. Unsane. Yeah, that's a good word for premies.

Reading about Fakiranand, I remember hearing stories about him as recent as 1997. Sitting around a premie's kitchen table (only us ole timers) and his name came up. The story about the pie incident was all mixed up with stories of his behavior when he visited the ashram.

Everyone laughed. Unsane. It was excused. I went along and laughed, too. That was before. Now I am here. My rejection of Maharaji and his cult has made me sane. Sure, I have emotional difficulties, but I am sane.

I look out my window and see a world full of beauty. I walk through the mountain forests and see that however all this stuff came to be, (and I've got no clue right now), doesn't matter, because it is there. I don't have to look to anyone to be filled with the happiness of seeing the wildness of nature. I don't have to have explanations from Maharaji about it. I can reject out of hand, all the brainwashing he put me through and be sane, be alert, be finely tuned into the true meaning of enjoying life.

Love with a partner of 20 years. In love with my animals which unconditionally give me comfort in hard times. Most of all love for myself without giving anything, not devotion, stupid superstitions about who that guru is, and especially my time. Oh yeah, not giving money is nice, too.

So you be well,
Love to you, Charles and Andy....(the forleggeds, too)
Cynthia

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:03:28 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: What a treat, Cynthia. Thanks
Message:
Thanks for taking the time to write that. I enjoyed every word. I sometimes think you can't really know sanity until you have known unsanity. Otherwise you take for granted that you mind is healthy.

I did affirmations for years but since leaving the urug I really no longer need to. The biggest affirmation is simply washing that crazy man right out of your hair and sending him on his way. From then on you see that maharajism caused most of the mental problems in the first place.

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 09:35:32 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Good Post!!!
Message:
I'm glad you don't have to carry the bag anymore. A friend of mine did (she passed away, she was a lost, sick in all senses premie) and boy, how inconvinient that was for her.

Thanks for your post, beside the shit and farts that is. :)

Be well.

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 14:06:29 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Sorry about the farts, Silvia
Message:
That bag taught me to be very matter of fact about that aspect of being an animal. You get to be as practical about it as a nurse or a mom changing diapers.
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 04:53:56 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Life is great
Message:
Well said!!!
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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 04:45:46 (EDT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: I hope your surgery went well. OT
Message:
Hey Pat, I'm glad everything worked out. I would of taken good care of your if you had been my patient, had come to my OR.
Congradulations!

Be well, Tonette

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Date: Sat, Sep 01, 2001 at 04:49:24 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: Tonette
Subject: I knew it. You're a lover
Message:
I smelled your humanity long ago. I'm fine thanks. Missing a sigmoid colon but fit as a fiddle. thank you for asking. I'll understand if you don't elaborate but I would love to know if you are an OR nurse.



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