Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Aug 21, 2001 To: Aug 24, 2001 Page: 2 of: 5


salam -:- trace route -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:25:54 (EDT)
__ such -:- well,there ain't no such thing as a sanity clause! [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 22:02:48 (EDT)
__ Joey -:- Re: trace route -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:42:03 (EDT)
__ __ JHB -:- Elan Vitals are innocent! -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 07:28:46 (EDT)
__ __ __ I know -:- Elan Vital IS NOT innocent! -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 08:08:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ Joey -:- Re: Elan Vitals are innocent! -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 07:36:26 (EDT)
__ Marianne -:- Read your email -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:38:59 (EDT)

Joe -:- Don't Forget Maharaji's Website -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:09:31 (EDT)
__ a0aji -:- Re: Don't Forget Maharaji's Website -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:20:38 (EDT)
__ __ silvia -:- I have it -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:39:01 (EDT)

twetie -:- very interesting -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:09:04 (EDT)

Jim -:- Re the term 'hate club' continuing w/ Carlos -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:39:55 (EDT)
__ salsa -:- Definition of word HATE -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 10:32:42 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- 'Hate' is different than 'hate group' -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 12:43:11 (EDT)
__ Salam -:- Re: Re the term 'hate club' continuing w/ Carlos -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:31:24 (EDT)
__ Like It Is -:- Jim you need help -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:17:43 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- bzzt. -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:31:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ [Blank] -:- bzzt. bzzt. bzzt bzzt. -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:36:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ a0aji -:- I know you are -- but what am I? -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 23:00:56 (EDT)

JHB -:- 'Harboring a Paedophile' allegation removed -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 19:26:13 (EDT)
__ RichMandrake -:- The Emperor is Wearing Clothes. he IS he IS -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 11:28:42 (EDT)
__ Jethro -:- Have I got this right? -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 01:57:17 (EDT)
__ __ salam -:- Please help me fill in the blanks -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 02:19:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jethro -:- Re: Please help me fill in the blanks -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 03:04:35 (EDT)
__ Abi -:- Re: 'Harboring a Paedophile' allegation removed -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:03:49 (EDT)
__ Joey -:- Re: 'Harboring a Paedophile' allegation removed -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:06:15 (EDT)
__ __ JHB -:- Re: 'Harboring a Paedophile' allegation removed -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:27:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ Joey -:- Re: 'Harboring a Paedophile' allegation removed -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:32:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ a0aji -:- perl harbor -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:39:05 (EDT)
__ salam -:- why? -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 19:51:54 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- Good. I also am reining in my hyperbole -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 19:33:30 (EDT)
__ __ Like It Is -:- What say you -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:23:00 (EDT)

Jim -:- Wonder what they talk about on CD's private forum -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:36:47 (EDT)
__ [Blank] -:- Re: Wonder what they .... -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 23:00:00 (EDT)
__ silvia, scared of fanatic premies -:- Satsang, what else -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 19:11:43 (EDT)
__ a0aji -:- Re: Wonder what they talk about on CD's private.. -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:08:04 (EDT)

Ulf -:- Moral -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:54:46 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- Absolutely not. [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:23:52 (EDT)
__ Salam -:- Re: Moral: not really -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:00:54 (EDT)
__ gerry -:- Re: Moral -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:03:55 (EDT)
__ __ such -:- yep -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:44:27 (EDT)
__ __ Ulf -:- Re: Moral -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:19:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Re: Moral -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:22:57 (EDT)
Like It Is -:- Re: Moral -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:00:18 (EDT)

Joe -:- Elan Vital Condemns CAC (sort of) -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:35:10 (EDT)
__ a0aji -:- sincere -- another tainted word -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:42:47 (EDT)
__ __ silvia -:- If you don't get K -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 22:02:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- The heart of a child, aOaji and Silvia -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 23:28:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ silvia, afraid of maharaji's POWER -:- You mean blind and stupid NT -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 14:43:25 (EDT)
__ Way -:- To the EV monitors -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 19:18:43 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- Re: To the EV monitors -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 23:14:56 (EDT)
__ Rick -:- Re: Elan Vital Condemns CAC (sort of) -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:19:43 (EDT)
__ __ Joe -:- Right Rick -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:24:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ Rick -:- Locale -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:42:31 (EDT)
__ Georgette H. -:- Re: Elan Vital Condemns CAC (sort of) -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:13:59 (EDT)
__ __ btdt -:- Re: Elan Vital Condemns CAC (sort of) -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:57:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ Zelda -:- bdtd- you took the words right off my keyboard [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:51:47 (EDT)
__ gerry -:- EV's tiny audience -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:48:41 (EDT)
__ __ Witheld -:- decent people -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:00:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ Georgette H. -:- Re: decent people -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:46:58 (EDT)
__ Like It Is -:- They are right -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:58:56 (EDT)
__ __ gerry -:- Re: They are right -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:07:13 (EDT)

Joe -:- Defamation -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:34:41 (EDT)
Like It Is -:- Re: Defamation -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:03:29 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- That's just plain stupid. -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:52:45 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- Re: That's just plain stupid. -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 02:26:42 (EDT)
__ JohnT -:- Maharaji - the truth -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:57:43 (EDT)
__ Dermot -:- Post this on LG Joe NT -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:50:48 (EDT)
__ silvia, scared of fanatic premies -:- Right on nt -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:54:13 (EDT)
__ PatC -:- Thanks for that, Joe -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:53:10 (EDT)

hamzen -:- Jim re the Trebinand info -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:25:01 (EDT)
__ JHB -:- What's happening with EPO and Mahatmas -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:49:58 (EDT)
__ __ ham -:- Good man JHB -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 19:32:07 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Yes, indeed -- Richard? -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:51:05 (EDT)
__ __ Richard -:- Trivinanand (sp?) -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:13:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Thanks -- same difference -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:49:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Re: Thanks -- same difference -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 22:09:24 (EDT)

Roger eDrek -:- Great, another goddamn 15 minutes of fame -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:04:03 (EDT)
__ salam -:- Re: Great, another goddamn 15 minutes of fame -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:04:40 (EDT)
__ nobody -:- Hmm, -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:40:29 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- I have a tooth that's hounding me! -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 03:30:00 (EDT)
__ __ [Blank] -:- Re: Hmm, -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:35:03 (EDT)
__ such -:- well,liked yer satires;editor cut-paste=SNL skit -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:55:42 (EDT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Re: well,liked yer satires;editor cut-paste -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:06:22 (EDT)
__ PatC -:- 15 minutes of fame -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:29:52 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- That's W32/Sircam and not at all her fault -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 03:05:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ Pat:C) -:- W32/Sircam and a puzzle, Sherlock aOaji -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 04:55:46 (EDT)
__ __ Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: 15 minutes of fame -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:05:02 (EDT)
__ __ silvia -:- Re: 15 minutes of fame -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:17:32 (EDT)
__ __ Bob -:- Virus? !! -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:39:15 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- Sounds like they're talking 'bout the Goob... [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:18:24 (EDT)
__ Dermot -:- Rog -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:15:08 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- detectives -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 02:39:31 (EDT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Good question. How did they get my name. CAC? -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:10:06 (EDT)
__ __ [Blank] -:- Seth? -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 19:48:30 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Your IP # is seen by the FA -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 19:28:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ a0aji -:- Re: Your IP # is seen by the FA -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 02:42:39 (EDT)
__ __ gerry -:- Re: Rog -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:26:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ Zelda -:- Reading that site?? -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:04:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ a0aji -:- ::lobbing mollies:: -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 03:15:14 (EDT)

EBay Alert -:- Sacred Journey and Penthouse 74 -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 14:25:32 (EDT)

Dermot -:- Hey EV, where's England ???? -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 14:12:18 (EDT)
__ Bin Liner -:- It's the Post Imperial malaise Dermot -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:22:17 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- Maltese Dermot? [nt] -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 01:09:29 (EDT)

take a stand? -:- an open letter to EV/M? -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 14:05:11 (EDT)
__ BTDT -:- Re: an open letter to EV/M? -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:50:33 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- VERY FUNNY! -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:14:21 (EDT)
__ silvia, afraid of the cult memebrs -:- Good idea nt -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:10:57 (EDT)
__ cq -:- why M should take an immediate stand -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:04:07 (EDT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- I agree EV needs to set the record straight -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 14:49:22 (EDT)
__ __ Dermot -:- Well Bjorn reckons an ex set up cac ! NT -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 14:59:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ Bjørn E -:- Wrong Dermot -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:11:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Well ther's only -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:18:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Someone should ask Katie -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:55:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Re: Someone should ask Katie -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:15:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Jim, no news yet but I've emailed ya NT -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:58:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bjørn E -:- Ther might be others ... -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:02:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- bjorn, I'll make you a deal -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:05:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bjørn E -:- Gerry, I stand by your deal -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:00:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Carlos -:- Make some other deal with him, gerry! -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:42:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Carlos, my response to u on LG wasdeleted -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 22:50:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ BDTD -:- Re: Carlos, my response to u on LG wasdeleted -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 13:53:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat:C) -:- Sheep and losers, BTDT -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 14:05:27 (EDT)
__ t-a-s-#2 -:- Re: an open letter to EV/M? -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 14:15:24 (EDT)
__ __ Richard -:- Good idea but... -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 14:27:40 (EDT)

Timmi -:- pictures -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 14:03:27 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- That's Nothing, Timmi... -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 14:13:36 (EDT)
__ __ Jethro -:- here's something funny -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 03:18:29 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- Grab an air-sick bag -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:34:08 (EDT)
__ __ such -:- Wherever I Look yer face is before me! -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:25:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ Carl -:- How could you forget charnamrit water?? -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:33:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Re: How could you forget charnamrit water? -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:57:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- ..Because he would *know* [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:58:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ such -:- you got some charnamrit water? hohoho [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:27:13 (EDT)
__ __ silvia, afraid of maharaji -:- sorry, you forgot -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:13:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jethro -:- yes you are right -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 03:24:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ silvia, afraid of maharaji's POWER -:- LOL -:- Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 14:48:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- I'm spitting on my monitor...LOLOL!!! [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:22:00 (EDT)


Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:25:54 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: All
Subject: trace route
Message:
Combat publishes an article on Maharaji.
Maharaji Is stopped from entering France by French authorities.
Maharaji goes home crying.
Pia stands on wobbly feet.
Charlie comes and goes.
EV adopts a broad policy to fight back.
EV attempt to jail an ex premie.
A smear campaigne begins by premies.
premies black mail exes.
premies force shut down 2 ex premies web sites.
an anonymos person tries to shut down another ex premie site.
Elan Vital puts out a press release distancing itself from the CAC group.
Elan Vital threatens to take legal action against EPO.

Elan Vital has no clue who is doing all this. In fact Elan Vital is so busy supporting Maharaji and his mission, they did not know about what was going on or who are the CAC group only a week later.

If you believe that, you should also believe that the hollocoust did not happen, Armstrong did not land on the moon, the tooth fairy visited you when you were little and santas deer eat the carrots that you put outside your door steps on x-mas night

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 22:02:48 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: well,there ain't no such thing as a sanity clause! [nt]
Message:
Merry Krishnamist und Happy Hallowe'en

arjuana er tijuana dance undada moonlite

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:42:03 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Re: trace route
Message:
My sentiments exactly, Salam!

Ev only two weeks ago unveiled their campaign of defamation against Jagdeo's victims. This week we get the CAC campaign, whose objectives are essentially the same. Defamation and attempted intimidation( in one case successfully) of those who dare to speak out against m and his cult's abuse.

So if anyone doesn't believe that Ev is behind CAC...well, I say read Salam's post:)

And you're also right in pointing out that this particular escalating round of the cult's nastiness started with the combat article.

Fuck! isn't life great?!? :)

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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 07:28:46 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Elan Vitals are innocent!
Message:
The guiding hand behind this is, as Pat says, likely to be Maharaji. At the very least, Maharaji could stop it by making a public announcement that he disapproves of such tactics. The many Elan Vitals around the world are just a group of impotent organisations that like to invite Maharaji to visit them, but otherwise do no good for society in the slightest. They are not even very good at promoting the practice of meditation. Hardly worth spitting at.

John.

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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 08:08:31 (EDT)
From: I know
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Elan Vital IS NOT innocent!
Message:
Elan Vital is maharaji, his umbrella to the world. His mask, but it's him.
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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 07:36:26 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Elan Vitals are innocent!
Message:
The guiding hand behind this is, as Pat says, likely to be Maharaji. At the very least, Maharaji could stop it by making a public announcement that he disapproves of such tactics. The many Elan Vitals around the world are just a group of impotent organisations that like to invite Maharaji to visit them, but otherwise do no good for society in the slightest. They are not even very good at promoting the practice of meditation. Hardly worth spitting at.

John.


---

John,

I agree. I should have stated it as 'm and his top accomplices'

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:38:59 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Read your email
Message:
xxx
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:09:31 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Don't Forget Maharaji's Website
Message:
It appears that Maharaji's website has fallen into disuse. It hasn't been updated in what seems like years, except to announce 'events,' since it still is quoting figures from 1998, such as they are.

It also contains a number of outrageous statements that the following email to the 'Maharaji' website addresses that many ex-premies, and even premies if they are honest enough to admit it, will relate to.

Dear Maharaji:

I notice that on your website you say the following in connection to receiving knowledge:

If you like what is given, practice it. If not, leave it. This statement, to me, is simple, yet profound and has been echoed since the time of my father.

I find the above statement extremely contradictory to other statements I have heard you make, especially since you claim that the statement has been a consistent one in relation to knowledge, since the time of your father.

For example, in August, 1978, I heard you make the following statement at a program which I attended in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, as reprinted in an Elan Vital publication called Elan Vital:

Guru Maharaj Ji has not only promised us, but given us more than he has promised. Always. Always. And as that battle begins, things get even more intense. And if that faith is not there, if that faith is not completely in Guru Maharaj Ji, you're going to fall in so many fragments that you wouldn't be able to count them yourself.

How can you possibly say that you suggest that people who don't like the 'gift' should leave it (and you), when you were simultaneously threatening those very people with dire consequences if they did just that?

Also, on another occasion, I heard you say the following:

And that's the way knowledge is...it's like you got the vegetables of the whole universe with you. And if you don't meditate, can you imagine how it's going to rot?...If you don't practice this knowledge, you will get rotten inside. There is so much energy contained in this knowledge, just imagine how much harm it will be able to do you if you know it, but don't use it properly?

Again, I don't see how you can reconcile saying that you can just try knowledge and leave it if you want to, and then make statements about 'splitting into fragments' and 'rotting inside' if you don't have faith in you and/or don't practice knowledge. I believe it is deceitful for you to make such a statement on your website, in light of these other, clearly contradictory, statements that clearly threaten your own followers about ever doing so. When I heard those earlier statements, I, unfortunately, believed you, and continued as a member of your cult for some time mainly out of the fear of doing damage to myself if I ever left. Now that you are saying something entirely different and contradictory, which is your true opinion about this, today, as opposed to what it obviously was in the past? And how can you claim that this has been your consistent opinion when it clearly hasn't been, based on quotes for yours printed in Elan Vital publications?

I would appreciate a response to this question, however, I don't count on it, since I have sent you sincere letters in the past asking questions and you have never bothered to respond. Considering the amount of time, energy and money I have contributed to you over the years, perhaps you could provide me with that courtesy.

Joe

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:20:38 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Don't Forget Maharaji's Website
Message:
Yep. Shark satsang was the one I always remembered. But his
pidgin-English reference to rotting vegetables sounds completely
like him. I have no doubt the quote is authentic, or
substantially so.
Here's an interesting tidbit: Although I never saw it in print, I
am told a quote I asked to be put in my high school yearbook (of
Maharaji!) did make it to print. One of these day I'll have to
take a look at someone else's copy. I remember it as being from
a caption I saw underneath a graphic on a publication such as
Divine Times (this was a folded newsprint newspaper, and I think
the graphic was two color, blue and black, on newsprint). It was
meant to be an artist's representation of what we see when we
do the Light technique. The quote was directly underneath the
graphic, which took up about 80 percent of the folded-over half
of the page (front cover, IIRC).

Sadly, I used my space in the HS yearbook to this purpose, instead
of what most people use it for (a poem, or one of those silly
dot dot dot ... dot dot dot... run-on things I don't even have a
name for. 'Utterances' I think I'd call it, if it were my choice
as to what to ask the kids for.

I did have a short debate with my HS english teacher about the
inclusion of the quote. All she said was, in essence, 'everybody
sees that' (the Light technique graphic). She was trying to say
it wasn't a big deal -- it wasn't all that cosmic, after all.

Smart woman.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:39:01 (EDT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: I have it
Message:
in a very safe place.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:09:04 (EDT)
From: twetie
Email: None
To: All
Subject: very interesting
Message:
to look at all them nathty lil old ip addretheth. Ohhhh look at dat and dat. Ohhh whois is saying dat and dat. Oh take dat u nasty lil puddy cato.

Cyber detectives anonymous

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:39:55 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Re the term 'hate club' continuing w/ Carlos
Message:
I'd said:

Carlos,

Don't you think the term 'hate club' needs a little work? It's pretty damn vague, wouldn't you say, especially how it's been bandied about? What does it actually mean to you? Does it include anyone who feels hatred? Is that a hate club? If so, wouldn't it include people who feel hatred for all sorts of justified reasons?

For example, I take it you know something about the current claims and litigation against the Hare Krishna cult for historic sexual abuse. If not, quite simply, a number of former Krishna kids are suing the cult for sexual -- and other forms -- of abuse they suffered in the Hare Krishna schools. I saw a documentary recently on the affair and I can assure you, these victims, and their families, hate the perpetrators as well as the organization that facilitated their suffering. Would you call them a 'hate club'?

Then there are the boys Sai Baba abused under the guise of 'spiritual counselling'. Adults now, they, too, are angry and are speaking out against Sai Baba, in court and out. They clearly hate the guy and all he stands for. 'Hate club'?

The fact is that many of the new age cults spawned in the sixties, seventies and eighties now face substantial criticism, much of it extremely emotionally charged, from former members. In turn the cults have invariably defended themselves just like Glasser, CAC, even EV itself with its bullshit 'press release' accusing Abi of being a lying gold-digger, of all things.

Define 'hate club', Carlos, please. And don't be evasive. Let's get real here.

**************************************************

To which Carlos replied:

[Jim, I mostly disliekd the term 'hate club']being applied only to exes and to all exes. I really haven't defined it, conciously, to myself.

Why not? It's an extremely charged term and I'd say it's downright reckless, unfair and irresponsible to to use it without really meaning anything particular. Do you or don't you agree? If not, why not?

But really, don't you think the term 'hate club' or 'hate group' actually does have some current meaning in our language? Of course it does. Charles Glasser or Catweasel or whoever ddin't make it up. It means something. Do a search for 'hate group' on Google and you'll see what I mean. Lots of current usages, all referring to 'hate group' as threatening hornet nests of racial or religious prejudice. Here, for example, is one such explanation:

Online bigotry, which can take the form of a web site, usenet post or other forms of electronic communication, is defined as, 'an organization or individual that advocates violence against or unreasonable hostility toward those persons or organizations identified by their race, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, gender or disability. Also including organizations or individuals that disseminate historically inaccurate information with regards to these persons or organizations for the purpose of vilification.'

If you're even thinking of trying to make that definition fit someone like me who has indeed said that I 'hate premies' but always explained myself in terms of hating their evasion, cowardliness and, yes, historical revisionism -- not mine, theirs. I don't lie about the past -- think again. We can debate that point fair and square but I assure you you'll lose.

But the way I think I've been using it has to do with posting abusivily, spewing verbal venom (tho I try to make some allowance for venting; that still is not entirely consequence free if done in public but should not be regarded as severely as bullying, IMO.), lying and distorting things to make a point, etc. I've always pointed out that some of us premies do it, too, and that either the label should be dropped (as a perjoritive of no use other than to foster the us-vs-them dichotomy), expanded to include us or adknowledge the exsistance of a 'ptemie chapter'.

Take a look at the link I've put up. It's a website that in many ways mirrors Glasser's, CAC's or Catweasel's thinking. In its perverted thinking, the JDL, which was created to defend jews against ominous, threatening prejudice is now the true 'hate group'. Its run and supported, just like the exes, by depraved personalities, pornographers even.

See how stupid this looks?

If your only complaint with me or other exes is that we lose our patience and scream and shout, that's your complaint and we can talk about that. But it's got nothing to do with being a 'hate group'. Can you see that?

And if your complaint is that we twist the history or facts, then we can talk about that too (although I recall that the last time you and I started down that path, you jumped off it, fast).

Have you ever been stood up by a friend or date? Or just kept waiting for hours before they finally arrive? Or lied to casually by someone who tried to pretend the issue didn't matter and wasn't worth talking about anyway? There are all sorts of ways that people use nonchalance as a weapon. And yes, people on the receiving end of that callous indifference are indeed the ones who usually are the first to lose their temper. So what? Does it mean that they're wrong?

Say you're on vacation somewhere. Say New York. Say your wife kept you waiting a full three hours! You were supposed to meet up at the corner of 53 and Lexington for dinner at five but she really liked that stretch of shops and, well, you know. Say she first lied to you when she finally arrived, pretending that she'd forgotten that you'd said five, not eight. How would you feel?

Say she then said she didn't want to talk about it and that you were just getting all pissy for nothing. How would you feel?

At a certain point, Carlos, either there on the street or back in the hotel room, if she kept up lying, making fun of you, blowing you off as if it were all your problem, not hers, sorry, man, you're gonna lose it. Is it your fault then? Really?

I'll give you an example. I've been trying to talk with one Chris Dickey for a good five years now. CD love hovering around and pricking at the exes once in a while with his vague, Yoda-like pronouncements. What he will not do is honestly, openly, discuss anything. At best he'll stick his toe in the water but after that he's out. That kind of behaviour is every bit as infuriating as all the other ways that people can disappoint each other by dissembling or dropping the ball, etc. Of course CD's play is to whistle, remain nonchalant. His only card is calmness. He's got no other to play and, to a superficial observer, calmness might trump anger and ourtrage. But there's another story going on and someone really interested in that story will soon see who the true aggressor is. I've never been one to use the term 'passive aggressive' much but there are situations in which it fits perfectly. CD is MR. Passive Aggressive.

In my opinion, premies who are confronted with the truth about Maharaji have limited options. One, they can avoid any rational discussion. Unfortunately, they can even find some support for this cowardly abandonment of morality and personal responsibility in the doctrine of 'maya' and transcendence. When CAC first cropped up I noticed a number of premies virtually whistling arti, as I said the other day, playing 'See-no-evil, Hear-no-evil' as if it were all a new chance to exercise 'surrender'.

Two, they can lie, kick, scratch and scream, like some of the more vitriolic premies we've seen. Still avoiding the facts but fighting like little Arjuna's, trying to find that wonderful connection to their (imaginary) friend inside even while they lie, cheat, steal and fight. I'm sure Mahatma Fakiranand was deep in meditation as he smashed Pat Halley in the head with the hammer. Might have even been blissed out, for all I know.

Three, they can face the facts honestly and openly. But you know when that happens, Carlos? That happens when we hear from someone to the effect that they've been a premie for ten million years, finally stumbled upon EPO, read Mishler, Dettmers, Donner, etc., saw what all these other, good, honest people had to say and, with great courage, admitted the truth to themselves. They were now ex-premies.

There are no other choices. Maharaji claimed he was God and now denies it. He lied to us about his life, everything. He has no moral superiority and indeed, when faced with a moral crisis, such as the death of the cyclist he hit, he acted far, far worse than anyone I'd ever want to call my friend, let alone my guru, let alone the Lord of the Universe. The facts are all there, bud. The rest, as they say, is up to you.

You are more effective when you don't talk down, Jim.

Whatever....
[ The CAC, Glasser, etc. analogue -- inverting the term 'Hate Group' ]

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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 10:32:42 (EDT)
From: salsa
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Definition of word HATE
Message:
hate (ht)
v. hat·ed, hat·ing, hates
v. tr.

To feel hostility or animosity toward.
To detest.
To feel dislike or distaste for: hates washing dishes.

v. intr.
To feel hatred.

n.
Intense animosity or dislike; hatred.

YES, I HATE MAHARAJI AND ALL HIS TROOP.

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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 12:43:11 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: salsa
Subject: 'Hate' is different than 'hate group'
Message:
To begin with, hate has, for hundreds of years, meant what we always knew it to mean --like duh! -- strong dislike.

Then the term got hijacked to mean racial, ethnic, religious or sexually-biased prejudice. From there, you get your 'hate groups'.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:31:24 (EDT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Re the term 'hate club' continuing w/ Carlos
Message:
I would like to say something, but not on this occasion. But I will say this is scary shit.

to :like it is, get stuffed.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:17:43 (EDT)
From: Like It Is
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim you need help
Message:
Now you have taken to comparing premies to anti-semetic web sites, like 'Zionist Occupied Government' (www.zog.to), which states on its home page that: 'The Defamation league of B'nai B'rith [Jews] is a tentacle of The Zionist / Jewish Occupied Government, the Shadow Government of the United States of America.'

This is sicker than sick.

Now, it is public knowledge that the Jewish Anti-Defamation League (along with a multi-cultural group of catholics and muslims) have publicly opposed the About-Picard Law 'Anti-Cult law' in France, and it is public knowledge that you have paid for french experts on the the anti-cult law) to come to canada and perform expert witness work for you, and we know that Jean - Michel Kahn is paid by the RG, so the million dollar question is:

Are you trying to encourage anti-religious laws to be passed in North America too? You are awfully close to this stuff to be a mere coincidence. Are you registered as a foreign agent? Why are you trying to paint a broad sweeping picture of 'the premies' when they are as diverse and uncontrolled as the ex-premies?

Jim, are unrelenting and single-mindedly stubborn in refusing to allow dialogue, cooperation or any raproachment between premeie and ex. You see a rick or a plot at every corner. You have encouraged nothing but the worst in people, and your advice on this and past forums has led to anger, tears and pain for many people, who may have had possibilities of getting resolution and help. Now they'll never know.

Who do you really work for? What is your agenda?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:31:10 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Like It Is
Subject: bzzt.
Message:
Bzzt. Wrong.

Maharaji is a cult leader, and whatever organization is
currently under his direction is a cult. Call it anything
else you want (because who could stop you?) but there are
hundreds of us here who will not find you able to invalidate
our *reality* -- there really was a problem; it wasn't just
our imagination.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:36:59 (EDT)
From: [Blank]
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: bzzt. bzzt. bzzt bzzt.
Message:
Yes. What? No thanks. Bye.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 23:00:56 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: the_tongue_satsang@anand.org
To: [Blank]
Subject: I know you are -- but what am I?
Message:
[sticks tongue out]

$ dict tongue
From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]:

Tongue \Tongue\ (?), n. [OE. tunge, tonge, AS. tunge; akin to
OFries. tunge, D. tong, OS. tunga, G. zunge, OHG. zunga,
Icel. & Sw. tunga, Dan tunge, Goth. tuggō, OL. dingua,
L. lingua. √243 Cf.Language, Lingo. ]
1. (Anat.) an organ situated in the floor of the mouth of
most vertebrates and connected with the hyoid arch.

Note: The tongue is usually muscular, mobile, and free at one
extremity, and in man other mammals is the principal
organ of taste, aids in the prehension of food, in
swallowing, and in modifying the voice as in speech. To
make his English sweet upon his tongue. --Chaucer.

2. The power of articulate utterance; speech. Parrots
imitating human tongue. --Dryden.

3. Discourse; fluency of speech or expression. Much tongue
and much judgment seldom go together. --L. Estrange.

4. Honorable discourse; eulogy. [Obs.] She was born noble;
let that title find her a private grave, but neither
tongue nor honor. --Beau. & Fl.

5. A language; the whole sum of words used by a particular
nation; as, the English tongue. --Chaucer. Whose tongue
thou shalt not understand. --Deut.
xxviii. 49.
To speak all tongues. --Milton.

6. Speech; words or declarations only; -- opposed to thoughts
or actions. My little children, let us love in word,
neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth. --1 John iii.
18.

7. A people having a distinct language. A will gather all
nations and tongues. --Isa. lxvi.
18.

8. (Zoöl.)
(a) The lingual ribbon, or odontophore, of a mollusk.
(b) The proboscis of a moth or a butterfly.
(c) The lingua of an insect.

9. (Zoöl.) Any small sole.

10. That which is considered as resembing an animal's tongue,
in position or form. Specifically:
(a) A projection, or slender appendage or fixture; as,
the tongue of a buckle, or of a balance.
(b) A projection on the side, as of a board, which fits
into a groove.
(c) A point, or long, narrow strip of land, projecting
from the mainland into a sea or a lake.
(d) The pole of a vehicle; especially, the pole of an ox
cart, to the end of which the oxen are yoked.
(e) The clapper of a bell.
(f) (Naut.) A short piece of rope spliced into the upper
part of standing backstays, etc.; also. the upper
main piece of a mast composed of several pieces.
(g) (Mus.) Same as Reed, n., 5.

{To hold the tongue}, to be silent.

{Tongue bone} (Anat.), the hyoid bone.

{Tongue grafting}. See under Grafting.

Syn: Language; speech; expression. See Language.

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]:

Tongue \Tongue\, v. i.
1. To talk; to prate. --Dryden.

2. (Mus.) To use the tongue in forming the notes, as in
playing the flute and some other wind instruments.

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]:

Tongue \Tongue\ (?), v. t. [imp. & p. p. Tongued (?); p. pr. &
vb. n. Tonguing.]
1. To speak; to utter. 'Such stuff as madmen tongue.' --Shak.

2. To chide; to scold. How might she tongue me. --Shak.

3. (Mus.) To modulate or modify with the tongue, as notes, in
playing the flute and some other wind instruments.

4. To join means of a tongue and grove; as, to tongue boards
together.

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]:

Radula \Rad'u*la\ (răd'&usl;*l&adot;), n.; pl.
{Radulæ} (-lē). [L., a scraper, fr. radere to
scrape.] (Zoöl.)
The chitinous ribbon bearing the teeth of mollusks; -- called
also {lingual ribbon}, and {tongue}. See Odontophore.

From WordNet (r) 1.6 [wn]:

tongue
n 1: a mobile mass of muscular tissue covered with mucous
membrane and located in the oral cavity [syn: {lingua},
{glossa}, {clapper}]
2: a human written or spoken language used by a community;
opposed to e.g. a computer language [syn: {natural
language}] [ant: {artificial language}]
3: any long thin projection that is transient; 'tongues of
flame licked at the walls'; 'rifles exploded quick knives
of fire into the dark' [syn: {knife}]
4: a manner of speaking; 'he spoke with a thick tongue'; 'she
has a glib tongue'
5: a narrow strip of land that juts out into the sea [syn: {spit}]
6: the tongue of certain animals used as meat
7: the flap of material under the laces of a shoe or boot
8: metal piece that hangs inside a bell and makes a sound by
hitting the side [syn: {clapper}]
v 1: articulate by tonguing, as on wind instruments
2: lick or explore with the tongue

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 19:26:13 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: jhb@ex-premie.org
To: All
Subject: 'Harboring a Paedophile' allegation removed
Message:
Just to let everyone know that the 'Harboring a Paedophile' allegation on EPO has been removed. This is at the request of Elan Vital inc. USA.

John Brauns
[ New EPO front page ]

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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 11:28:42 (EDT)
From: RichMandrake
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: The Emperor is Wearing Clothes. he IS he IS
Message:
Isnt He??...Im just Amazed...at the level of denial that those at EV have Attained...who are Reading the EPO Site...in order to try to shut it down (litigation). How is it Possible to read from the EX-rated Premies about the REAL Maha/Rawat...and Still Work for the MAn?????..

Even the level of denial that I attain pales...when compared to these people. I do remember runnning across the Bob Mischler interview years ago...where he claimed Maharaji drank alot...But it was Just SO out of My Conceivable Universe that I guess i filed it in the 'DOES NOT COMPUTE' sector of my Mind...Anyway it wasnt until I recently was faced with Corroboration and Substantiation from other PAMs that I HAD to Admit to myself the Obvious...The Evers must read ALL this in there duty to their Lord to Suppress information. So, How in the Hell do these EVers Do it?....Rich

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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 01:57:17 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Have I got this right?
Message:
The EPO website now says this:

Mahatma Jagdeo
One of Maharaji's trusted servants, Mahatma Jagdeo, used his position of power to sexually abuse children of Maharaji's followers, and, according to Elan Vital, Maharaji knew nothing about it!

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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 02:19:39 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Please help me fill in the blanks
Message:
My English is not the best as you know, So maybe you help me on this one.

What do you call some that sexually abuses children in his care? P.................

And if the person's name is Jagdeo he will be called J......... the P.........

And if the J..... the P........ person works for some, isn't called accountability?

So ....... is accountable for ........ the .........actions.

Pretending ignorance of the law is not an execuse.

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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 03:04:35 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Re: Please help me fill in the blanks
Message:
I agree.

So it appears that EV is wanting to protect jagdeo!

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:03:49 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: 'Harboring a Paedophile' allegation removed
Message:
Oh well, I was expecting that. I understand your position John.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:06:15 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: 'Harboring a Paedophile' allegation removed
Message:
John,
Did you receive this 'request' in writing, and if so can you share it with us on the forum?

If not, can you at least tell us if there was any threat of legal action attatched to the request?

Thank you,

Joey

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:27:54 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Re: 'Harboring a Paedophile' allegation removed
Message:
All the facts relating to Jagdeo are still published on the EPO site. I've just changed the front page a little. Have a look and tell me what you think. I've also made some changes to the Jagdeo page to emphasise that he worked for Maharaji while he practised child abuse.

Yes, EV threatened legal action, but I'm very reticent to publish emails or letters that were not intended for publication. That doesn't mean I won't publish, it's just that I'm not going to immediately publish everything that gets sent to EPO.

My position on the legal threat is that the presentation of the facts about Maharaji is too important to risk a court case with a bunch of premies who are just trying to carry out Maharaji's agya.

I wouldn't call what I've done a retreat, but it's certainly tactical.

John.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:32:19 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: 'Harboring a Paedophile' allegation removed
Message:
John,

I agree with your assessment of the situation and of course, also support your actions in response to EV's communication with you.
Thank you you for your quick and detailed reply to my post. I really do appreciate your efforts. Especially your ability to see things strategically.

Well done!

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:39:05 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: JHB
Subject: perl harbor
Message:
All the facts relating to Jagdeo are still published on the EPO site. I've just changed the front page a little. Have a look and tell me what you think. I've also made some changes to the Jagdeo page to emphasise that he worked for Maharaji while he practised child abuse.

Yes, EV threatened legal action, but I'm very reticent to publish emails or letters that were not intended for publication. That doesn't mean I won't publish, it's just that I'm not going to immediately publish everything that gets sent to EPO.

My position on the legal threat is that the presentation of the facts about Maharaji is too important to risk a court case with a bunch of premies who are just trying to carry out Maharaji's agya.

I wouldn't call what I've done a retreat, but it's certainly tactical.

John.


---

Well let me just say this, John -- you got more stones than I do.
That's a *difficult* job you're doing, and I do appreciate that you
do it so well. Thanks. -a0aji (Chris Hafey)

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 19:51:54 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: why?
Message:
has he stopped being one? Or have the police proved that he wasn't one? Or have EV proved that they never knew him? Or has he been sentenced?

[sorry jhb, I just woken up, fill me in]

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 19:33:30 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Good. I also am reining in my hyperbole
Message:
Using purple prose is fun and dramatic but it basically is playing their game. From now on I stick to stating facts quietly and rationally - like this: CAC has shot Rawat in the foot. OOps maybe that's too hyperbolic. Maybe CAC shoots the foot that it kisses or bites the hand that feeds it? Whatever.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:23:00 (EDT)
From: Like It Is
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: What say you
Message:
What say you about this posting from below?

Posted by: Salam Recipient: Ulf
Email Address: Not Provided
Browser Type: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98)

Subject: Re: Moral: not really
Message:

This is not a morality issue.

I think cac have asked for it. The best approach is to make the list, prepare it, format it put it on a wb page and e-mail the urls to the premies involved only telling them that unless cac stop doing what they are doing, Shame List II, will open on a wbsite near them. See what happens. There are innocents in wars, only casulties.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:36:47 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Wonder what they talk about on CD's private forum
Message:
CD hosts a private, password-protected forum for premies as well as LG. Wonder what the odds are that some there know who've been fucking with us.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 23:00:00 (EDT)
From: [Blank]
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Wonder what they ....
Message:
We need a Bazza. Any volunteers?

p.s what is the url?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 19:11:43 (EDT)
From: silvia, scared of fanatic premies
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Satsang, what else
Message:
We are so special; we have K.; how many did you recruited.

And they laugh at us, dealing with the jokers, I imagine. That is what LARD does: He laughs at human concerns.

They are not going to discuss that maybe they are not right, correct?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:08:04 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Wonder what they talk about on CD's private..
Message:
CD hosts a private, password-protected forum for premies as well as LG. Wonder what the odds are that some there know who've been fucking with us.


---

That's why they call it 'private', Jim.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:54:46 (EDT)
From: Ulf
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Moral
Message:
should we give the names of the premies out on the net, with information of where they work and
who they really are ,And what they have done.
how they live

As before stated i think it is a bad idea, it would only make the war even bigger, and the moral in it is not nice.
but i also think that the premies will never give
a dime for our moral , in the premies minds moral
are for suckers,
so i am afried that,, no thanking
will come from them,,,
still it would be very wrong to do it , but dont think they will
see why it is not done.
M makes the rules , and he breakes the rules , Remember.???
Moral have no place in his divine play.
And if you are a premie moral , is not a standard you can use regarding M, he is above

Ulf

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:23:52 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Ulf
Subject: Absolutely not. [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:00:54 (EDT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Ulf
Subject: Re: Moral: not really
Message:
This is not a morality issue.

I think cac have asked for it. The best approach is to make the list, prepare it, format it put it on a wb page and e-mail the urls to the premies involved only telling them that unless cac stop doing what they are doing, Shame List II, will open on a wbsite near them. See what happens. There are innocents in wars, only casulties.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:03:55 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Ulf
Subject: Re: Moral
Message:
I agree, Ulf. Rawat proved he thinks he is above the law when he had that houseboy take the rap for Rawat's driving death of that man on a bicycle in India.

And of course, since we are dealing with the Pefect Master here, all 'human' rules are disposable.

No, we should not respond in kind. I have never once called or emailed any premie who was 'outed' on any of these forums. Indeed, I rarely receive email from anyone on these forums.

We should concentrate our efforts on Rawat. The premies were us once. And still are.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:44:27 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: yep
Message:
I agree, Ulf. Rawat proved he thinks he is above the law when he had that houseboy take the rap for Rawat's driving death of that man on a bicycle in India.

And of course, since we are dealing with the Pefect Master here, all 'human' rules are disposable.

No, we should not respond in kind. I have never once called or emailed any premie who was 'outed' on any of these forums. Indeed, I rarely receive email from anyone on these forums.

We should concentrate our efforts on Rawat. The premies were us once. And still are.


---

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:19:36 (EDT)
From: Ulf
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Moral
Message:
I agree, i am sorry to say ,
I know, because, i was also one of the chosen one, only two years ago.
Information again and again, is the way, real information about M

Why do i get the link sign , everytime i post?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:22:57 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Ulf
Subject: Re: Moral
Message:
Why do i get the link sign , everytime i post?

I'm not sure what you mean.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:00:18 (EDT)
From: Like It Is
Email: None
To: Ulf
Subject: Re: Moral
Message:
Ulf, see the posting below. If you lump everyone together, you are into cult-think, no?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:35:10 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Elan Vital Condemns CAC (sort of)
Message:
A second 'press release' dated today on the EV website, which WT thoughtfully provided on LG:

Elan Vital has been made aware of a number of Internet websites which apparently have escalated a hurtful or offensive agenda on the part of those site's authors. Elan Vital has absolutely no involvement with or control over these sites or their authors. As the target of unfair, out of context and factually incorrect allegations, Elan Vital is sympathetic to others who feel that they have been similarly maligned.

While Elan Vital's position is one of respecting freedom of expression, we hope that all persons, whether they practice Knowledge or not, would respect the property, integrity and privacy of others. We wish to share with all persons concerned that these sites should not be construed in any way as reflecting the goals of Elan Vital, nor should they, regardless of position, be seen as carrying the endorsement or approval of Elan Vital.

The goals of Elan Vital center around the experience of Knowledge as taught by Maharaji, which is a joyful and positive experience for those who approach it sincerely. It is our view that acrimonious debates in Internet forums in no way furthers those goals or that experience.

The transparent self-serving comments about Elan Vital's supposed innocent victimhood notwithstanding, they nonetheless disassociate themselves, to a degree condemn CAC without naming it.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:42:47 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: sincere -- another tainted word
Message:
)))The goals of Elan Vital center around the experience of
Knowledge as taught by Maharaji, which is a joyful and
positive experience for those who approach it sincerely. It
is our view that acrimonious debates in Internet forums in
no way furthers those goals or that experience.(((


---

Pfff. Flight 454, on /sincere/ approach, tower. ::beep::
[silence]
Pfff. Tower? This is flight 454. Go ahead. ::beep::
[silence]
Pfff. Tower? This is flight 454.. we're still waiting for
clearance on our /sincere/ approach. Go ahead? ::beep::
[silence]

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 22:02:23 (EDT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: If you don't get K
Message:
what K is, blame your self. You must not be sincere then.

I hear that and infuriates me; pure manipulation.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 23:28:25 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: silvia
Subject: The heart of a child, aOaji and Silvia
Message:
and no cheat or deceit. You know just like the guys who put up CAC - sweet, innocent, loving and truthful. b)
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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 14:43:25 (EDT)
From: silvia, afraid of maharaji's POWER
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: You mean blind and stupid NT
Message:
y
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 19:18:43 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: To the EV monitors
Message:
Dear EV monitors,

Please pass on this message to EV.

Why does Elan Vital officially state that they have absolutely no control over the authors of CAC? Don't they realize that they can email them and tell them of their objections? Doesn't sound too difficult to me. Perhaps they could inform Mr. Rawat and get his input. Perhaps Mr. Rawat could speak out for decency and fair play on the part of his own followers. Doesn't sound so impossible to me.

As far as the unfair and 'factually incorrect' accusations that EV has suffered, why have they not ever written to EPO and requested that the unfactual information be removed. If they can point out the misinformation, then it will be removed. But we can't remove information about Abi's father telling Charanand and Jagdeo still touring, because that is factual. We can't remove any of that sort of information. If you want us to tone down our objections, then work WITH us so that we can.

The 'war' between Rawat's following can be stopped by peace. Not the peace that comes from practicing four techniques, but a peace that comes from the simple, honest human expression and acceptance of factual truth.

Elan Vital's latest official statement is aimed at EPO just as much, or even more so, than it is aimed at CAC. If they want peace with EPO they should not insult our intelligence by pretending that their hands are tied in regard to CAC. That simply isn't true, and we all know it. When are we going to hear something that we can work with? I, for one, am willing to walk, but only if my concerns are addressed honestly. It is not because I am stubborn and hateful, but because I was born with a deep regard for truth and justice. I think all ex-premies still have respect for the ideals that made us receive Knowledge in the first place. But we don't see those ideals happening anymore in EV. We don't see Rawat promoting those ideals. We do not have an endless list of demands. Common sense can identify our demands and their limits. Don't blame us if we don't admire hit and run accidents, don't blame us if we don't like sexual contact that is manipulative and hurtful, don't blame us if we object to the soft action that Jagdeo enjoyed when he should have been blasted away, don't blame us for any of our objections, because they are reasonable and fair.

If Rawat acknowledges the mistakes of the past, his mistakes, not his follower's mistakes, if he admits the truth of the information we have gathered around us, and if he tells new aspirants that he is the humble servant of truth and no more than that, then his ex-followers would finally do what he wants them to do. And that is walk. Many ex-premies are ready to walk away, believe me. Help us do that.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 23:14:56 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Re: To the EV monitors
Message:
Hmm.

I don't know that I can walk away from [dons Sam Kinison outfit]

TWENTY FUCKIN' YEARS OF MY LIFE! OH--OHHH!

I want to see him on a rock pile, breaking big ones into little ones.
And swapping stories with Lex Luthor.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:19:43 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Elan Vital Condemns CAC (sort of)
Message:
Thanks for posting that, Joe. It's clear they didn't make the site or authorize someone else to do it. It also seems like they might think it's the just desserts for a group so engulfed in Maya. The amount of denial necessary to maintain their beliefs, opens the door for them to think that maharaji and EV have been severely mistreated. There's just no way to ditch one's rationality for spirituality and then have it handy to sort out what's fair.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:24:22 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Right Rick
Message:
I know there are many decent premies and people involved with EV. I'm sure that hasn't changed from the years I was involved. But it is true that you have to compartmentalize a lot to remain a premie.

Hey, BTW, we're coming up to your locale in a few weeks. We need to get away. Maybe I'll get a chance to say hello.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:42:31 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Locale
Message:
Great, Joe. Please stop by. In fact, if you're camping (or not staying overnight) I can get you and your partner guest passes so you don't have to pay. Just need a couple days' notice in advance.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:13:59 (EDT)
From: Georgette H.
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Elan Vital Condemns CAC (sort of)
Message:
**Elan Vital has been made aware of a number of Internet websites which apparently have escalated a hurtful or offensive agenda on the part of those site's (sic) authors.**

If you read this sentence closely, it doesn't make sense. The way this sentence is written makes it sound like the websites' authors are attacking themselves. Most likely, EV wanted to take the opportunity to exact a dig toward the ex sites. Just as they state that they have/had nothing to do with Jagdeo's actions, they are now launching a similar spin re CAC. Rather than distance themselves by stating that they have nothing to do with CAC specifically, their comments suggest absolutely nothing of the sort.

Talk about monkeys on a stick.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:57:01 (EDT)
From: btdt
Email: None
To: Georgette H.
Subject: Re: Elan Vital Condemns CAC (sort of)
Message:
Reads like a screenplay script from All the President's Men and A Few Good Men combined.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:51:47 (EDT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: btdt
Subject: bdtd- you took the words right off my keyboard [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:48:41 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: EV's tiny audience
Message:
My guess is that some of the decent people who happen to still believe in the maharaji fairy tale signaled their disgust with the CAC thing and EV reacted. Another guess is that these same people are probably questioning a lot of the things in which they believe. In this way, similarly, as Kabir would say in one of Rumi's poems: CAC has done a better job of deprogramming premies than we ever could!
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:00:58 (EDT)
From: Witheld
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: decent people
Message:
Gerry, thank you for recognizing that there are decent people involved with EV and that they spoke up. This press release would not have happened otherwise.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:46:58 (EDT)
From: Georgette H.
Email: None
To: Witheld
Subject: Re: decent people
Message:
The majority of premies are decent people in my experience. But the CAC premies who would blackmail a man and threaten that man's children obviously are not, and the fact remains that they're premies. You have to admit that the EV fuzzy press release really doesn't address those premies who are willing to endanger others, in particular children who have absolutely nothing to do with this. I think it would behoove EV to do so in a clear manner.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:58:56 (EDT)
From: Like It Is
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: They are right
Message:
Look, if they NAMED the damn thing, wouldn't that drive more traffic there? Don't be so damned ready to take the offensive, huh?

Quit being such a fucking extremist, or you'll NEVER have dialogue, NEVER reach sincere people (and there ARE sincere premies) and you'll NEVER shake off the Hate Club label.

You could be like Jim, or Deborah or Salaam and just snipe, cynicize and distrust, or you could be the person you want to be. If you say you are better than someone: ACT AS IF YOU ARE!

EV acted honorably in saying 'phooey on both of you' and you are smoking crack if you think they or maharaji had anything to do with CAC.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:07:13 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Like It Is
Subject: Re: They are right
Message:
Your post doesn't seem to be related to anything I wrote and I was wondering if you are talking to me or is this a complaint generator I've tapped into?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:34:41 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Defamation
Message:
The current crop of fanatic cultists (and this is a label that a PREMIE (David Andersen on LG), calls the people who have put together the CAC website), keep throwing around the word 'defamation' and 'defamatory' like everyone understands what it means. They claim that ex-premies have been 'defamatory' towards, I guess, Maharaji.

Apparently, they claim that because ex-premies have revealed that child sexual abuse was going on in the Maharaji cult, that Maharaji drank heavily, smoked dope daily, took sexual advantage of his female devotees, etc., not to mention that he claimed to be God and now denies it, etc., etc., that is defamatory information.

Clearly this information DOES 'defame' Maharaji, in the sense that it is very damaging to him and something he has worked extremely hard to keep secret all these years, to the point of 'x-rating' premies who observed it. In regard to his public behavior, it's just revisionism of the past; pretending it didn't happen when there are thousands of us who know it did and can testify to that fact. Again, damaging to Maharaji that he is a liar about that, and damaging to the current image of himself he is desperately trying to project to the tiny number of 'new people' who are considering in becoming PWKs.

But 'defamation' is only 'defamation' if what is said isn't true. If it's true, no matter how damaging to Maharaji it might be, it's not defamation. And note, that despite literally thousands of requests, neither Maharaji, Elan Vital, nor the premies have ever responded to these statements, except for the Elan Vital FAQs, which address very few of the statements, and even many premies admit are extremely misleading and in some cases lies.

Now, there is an issue about revealing even TRUE facts about someone which could be an invasion of the right of privacy. But as Jim pointed out, Maharaji is a public figure, who has made an obscene fortune being a public figure, and the standard is very, very high regarding the invasion of privacy for a public figure. Especially, when Maharaji has intentionally hidden damaging information about himself, that is valuable for somebody who might consider him as a 'master.'

Now, in regard to private citizens, who are not public figures, the story is very different. See, CAC is about private citizens, and disseminates lies, perhaps built in with some truth about people, but labels everyone 'cyberstalkers' regardless. That clearly is a violation of the law (defamation it it's untrue and invasion of privacy if it is true) and I think actionable, and would be, if the people who did that website had as much courage of their convictions as the people they are attacking. Those ex-premies chose to use their own names and stand by what they say, unlike the spineless devotees of the former Lord of the Universe whose infantilism has led them to put that site together.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:03:29 (EDT)
From: Like It Is
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Defamation
Message:
Joe wrote:
'Now, in regard to private citizens, who are not public figures, the story is very different. See, CAC is about private citizens, and disseminates lies, perhaps built in with some truth about people'

If you think people who incessantly post on a public forum, insert themselves into this mess and make public appearances in other forums are 'private figures' you (or your lawyers) need to go back to lawschool.

Is Maharaji 'more' of a public figure than you? Yes. Are you a public figure? In this context...oh yesssssss.
(Not legal advice, just good ol' country common sense)

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:52:45 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Like It Is
Subject: That's just plain stupid.
Message:
To suggest that because somebody posts on a forum, that he or she has become a public figure for the purposes of defamation law is ludicrous.

On the other hand, if you dance around half naked on a stage in front of thousands of people while wearing a crown, and have thousands kiss your feet, and sell videos and pictures of yourself by the thousands, you might just be a 'public figure' but hey, what do I know?

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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 02:26:42 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: That's just plain stupid.
Message:
if you dance around half naked on a stage in front of thousands of people while wearing a crown


---

It is just unbelievable -- and I was laughing my self to tears
thinking of the imagery you invoked. It's all true! I saw it
with my own eyes.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:57:43 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Maharaji - the truth
Message:
Tha atttacks on individuals are reprehensible indeed, but other people will also be concerned at the exploitation of the Free Software Foundation's name, and the trivialisation of a serious issue like cyberstalking.

The CACheads have grotesquely draped themselves with the banners of wider and more noble causes the better to further their unpleasantries.

They have justly earned themselves the contempt of their fellow premies and have split the cult. Their names will out, and such fraudulent hijacking of noble causes will do their reputations no good at all in the wider world.

What a waste. And all for an imaginary friend in the head!

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:50:48 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Post this on LG Joe NT
Message:
zzz
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:54:13 (EDT)
From: silvia, scared of fanatic premies
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Right on nt
Message:
y
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:53:10 (EDT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Thanks for that, Joe
Message:
You summed it up clearly and concisely.

Now I must go chop vegetables and forget about the fruits and nuts of CAC.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:25:01 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Jim re the Trebinand info
Message:
you posted yesterday.

I'd never heard that stuff before, so checked EPO and I couldn't find it.

Think it has a LOT of relevance re the Jagdeo issue, especially with regard to gm knowing the situation and sending mahatmas back out into the community.

The woman who was institutionalized was an appalling story, the other mahatma (can't remember the name)harem scene was pretty dodgy too.

This information just amplifies his lack of values and shows, along with his sexual abuse of power with female blonde premies, that no-one should be surprized re Jagdeo.

It should be up on EPO

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:49:58 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: What's happening with EPO and Mahatmas
Message:
Ham,

I agree 100% and EPO will soon have a new section about the misbehaviour of Mahatmas and how M dealt with them. Of course, Jagdeo will be prominent in this, but all the others we know of will also feature.

In the meantime, I have changed the site to remove the 'harboring a paedophile' allegation because those kind people at Elan Vital told me to. This is a temporary version as those kind people didn't give me much time, but I hope everyone likes it:-)

John.
[ New EPO front page ]

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 19:32:07 (EDT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Good man JHB
Message:
For gm to send him back out into the community was nothing short of negligent, and just about sums up his arrogance and complete lack of care.
That lack of care is just amplified by their, and his, complete indifference to the suffering of Jagdeo's victims.
A genuine organization based on the heart would be doing everything in their power to support the victims.

As usual dollars comes before heart with that lot.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:51:05 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Yes, indeed -- Richard?
Message:
I think it was Richard who told us the first part of the story. A few weeks ago, maybe longer, Richard (?) posted that he'd been at COLL, I think, ('City of Love and Light' -- a prototype cult compound in Texas) when Trebinanand was there on probation doing menial service. His crime, apparently, was sexually exploiting an ashram 'sister'. Afterwards, he's on tour again and rapes the girl in Regina.

Gary Ockendon knows much more about the Tejeshwaranand matter than I do. It was Gary who filled in for Mahatma Ji, opening peoples' third eyes in the Nelson Knowledge session while Tej was supposedly 'taking rest' but actually getting some girl pregnant. Gary was also the co-ordinator in Vancouver, then, when Tej set up his harem. He's Donner's neighbour. Maybe he could explain it all further through Mike, if he doesn't mind, of course.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:13:52 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Trivinanand (sp?)
Message:
Your timeline is off and the mahatma banished to COLL was someone else. In early 1973 Trevinanand was reported to DLM in Denver for improprities with a premie woman in New Orleans. It involved him wanting more than a basic massage. I don't know the details beyond that. He was supposed to arrive in Tallahassee for a program and Knowledge session but was called to Houston to be reprimanded by Bal Bhagwan Ji (Prem Pal's brother Sat Pal). I remember this because I had busted my butt to set up venues, publicity, etc and then had to redo it. He then came to Tallahassee a few days late and continued with his mahatma duties. At the time it was assumed his 'problem' had been dealt with.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:49:09 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Thanks -- same difference
Message:
I agree that we should get all these details as accurately as possible. However, as I'm sure you'll agree, there's no substantive difference in terms of the issues and concerns we're talking about. Fact is, if we can assume BBJ didn't act in a vaccuum keeping Maharaji in the dark, Maharaji knew that Trivinanand (or Trebinanand) was not to be trusted in the extremely exalted position of trust as a spritually advanced and unworldy renunciate. Yet this was all kept under wraps to maximize 'Mahatma Ji's' public relations impact on tour and as basic damage control. Too bad, then, for the girl in Regina.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 22:09:24 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Thanks -- same difference
Message:
Check your email b)
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:04:03 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: All
Subject: Great, another goddamn 15 minutes of fame
Message:
I thought that by now we'd all be too busy appearing as guests on each others' talk shows that we'd never have the time to see our names on the marquee. Instead, I see that they got and got me good. And now there's nothing left for me to do but obey the voices in my head and go home and clean my guns.

Of course, that's just a joke (about the guns.) But, isn't that what they really want? These people whether directed by Maharaji or Elan Vital or not really would like us to simply go away and die. And they would defame and defile us with such obvious tripe in hopes that we might actually kill ourselves. They'd love that.

Yes, these followers of the Living Perfect Master are so full of peace, love and understanding, aren't they?

Sure, they will say that we give it back to Maharaja in spades, but the forget that he is a Public Figure and we are not Public Figures. Rather we are private citizens and are protected by law against such defamation that is out of context and false.

So, fuck you CAC. You will be hearing from my lawyers.
[ Look ma, I'm famous now! ]

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:04:40 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: Great, another goddamn 15 minutes of fame
Message:
sheesh, did really do all that? I think I prefer to see you as eDrek, anything else won't do.

Cyber detectives? I like that too. I think am going to have to talk to some people about dat?

Let the detecting begins. Oh shit, forgot about CERN, plus am on a good behavior bond.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:40:29 (EDT)
From: nobody
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Hmm,
Message:
Hmm,

The scarry anonyminity of the internet...

What do we REALLY know about Roger?

Is anyone here putting up new and improved firewalls?

Even if the CAC is just full of Drek, Firewalls are a good thing.

Trust Nobody, suspect anyone,

Nobody

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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 03:30:00 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: nobody
Subject: I have a tooth that's hounding me!
Message:
So I took a pair of pliers and I pulled them all out one night just to make sure!

There is no privacy on the Internet. I've grown used to it.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 21:35:03 (EDT)
From: [Blank]
Email: None
To: nobody
Subject: Re: Hmm,
Message:
I don't want to know anything about Roger that he doesn't want to tell me.

Firewalls don't protect you.

wanna see how it's done?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:55:42 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: well,liked yer satires;editor cut-paste=SNL skit
Message:
some parts reminded me of Robin Williams or Monty Python!
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:06:22 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Re: well,liked yer satires;editor cut-paste
Message:
I appreciate the effort of CAC to compile many of my better pieces. Of course, I'm a thief and nothing I do is ever original. And I'm sure I'll be seeing that line 'I'm a thief' again, too. Gotta love it.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:29:52 (EDT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: 15 minutes of fame
Message:
Now watch out for the viruses. I had 23 in my email this morning each at 210K which effectively froze it. All from ''Debra Davis'' with the subject line being, ''CAC July 1.''

I wish you peace and love seeing that Rawat's premies wish us only hate and fear.

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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 03:05:54 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: PatC
Subject: That's W32/Sircam and not at all her fault
Message:
Now watch out for the viruses. I had 23 in my email this morning each at 210K which effectively froze it. All from ''Debra Davis'' with the subject line being, ''CAC July 1.''

I wish you peace and love seeing that Rawat's premies wish us only hate and fear.


---

The subject line is the name of the document the virus sent to
you, from Debra Davis' machine (probably). That means you have
an insider's document on CAC -- the virus compromises *her* security.

That's how W32/Sircam works; part of its payload is that it
compromises the originator's system by revealing private documents
(usually from My Documents) to the hosts it targets; thus it is
harmful to both hosts (infected, and the one about to be).

Also: This in no way implies Debra Davis had anything to do with
it. What it means .. what it only means .. is that you were in
her address book.

Not that I know of any Debra Davis. I'm simply telling you how
the virus does what it does.
You can forward mail like this to a Yahoo account. There are
good virus scanners in Yahoo mail. Use them to screen suspicious
documents for viruses.

Never open a file attach, even if it seems to be from someone you
know or have heard of. Never! Always verify, in an intelligent
way, that someone you know actually sent you a *specific* file
transmission (as a file attach) and get all the parameters needed
to identify it, prior to opening it.

Many viruses now exploit the fact that you would ordinarily open
a file attach from a friend or family member, without first
consulting them. This is a psychological trick; the virus has
to entice you to push the right button on your computer to set
it free on your system! It does this by using your (infected)
acquaintance's Address Book to find it's victim targets.
[ www.cert.org on W32/Sircam ]

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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 04:55:46 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: W32/Sircam and a puzzle, Sherlock aOaji
Message:
What puzzled me is this: many of the exes got a virus from ''Debra Davis.'' Which premie's mailing list is she on? Which premie's (or former ex-premie now premie) mailing list are all the exes on? Why would someone send me 23 except as a way of cluttering up my limited hotmail inbox which does not allow you to open a virus infected message?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:05:02 (EDT)
From: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: 15 minutes of fame
Message:
Debra Davis sent me an email with a virus just last week or so. It seems to be part of the jihad. Just watch out for those folks 'asking for advice.'
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:17:32 (EDT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: 15 minutes of fame
Message:
Hi Pat,

Maybe there is no need but you are saving those e-mails, right?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:39:15 (EDT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Virus? !!
Message:
If this is true then there is an obvious reason to call the feds.
The idiots who thought of this will be doing hard time!!
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:18:24 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Sounds like they're talking 'bout the Goob... [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:15:08 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Rog
Message:
So what's your take on how they got your name? I noyice that's it....no phone/address unlike some.

Who among us exes , prems and ex-exes knew your name? What other way could they find out?

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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 02:39:31 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: detectives
Message:
So what's your take on how they got your name? I noyice that's it....no phone/address unlike some.

Who among us exes , prems and ex-exes knew your name? What other way could they find out?


---

I think he's using a detective. The information isn't hard to get.
There are massive holes in all Internet security related to privacy
issues.

The only good news is there probably aren't any good logs of *past*
activity, outside of NSA, CIA etc. databases, for a detective to
get a look at. So if you were formerly doing something you would
not want to be caught doing when Jesus comes, this would be an
excellent time to stop doing those things. ;)

I have no idea if what I just said is true or has any bearing. It is
my thinking on the matter, only.]

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:10:06 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Good question. How did they get my name. CAC?
Message:
I've been pretty careful about that. Maybe CAC could let me know how they got my name.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 19:48:30 (EDT)
From: [Blank]
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Seth?
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 19:28:11 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Your IP # is seen by the FA
Message:
The FA can do a whois. Interesting?
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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 02:42:39 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Your IP # is seen by the FA
Message:
The FA can do a whois. Interesting?


---

No. Whois would backtrace to the registrar of your ISP's domain,
I think. Or to your ISP.

The ISP isn't going to divulge your name.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:26:49 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Re: Rog
Message:
I knew Roger's real name. Jackie Gleason or something...
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:04:04 (EDT)
From: Zelda
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Reading that site??
Message:
The first day I read the intro on the site, looked at the list to see where people live on the globe of ours. It took 5 minutes to form an opinion about how lame it was.
Other than looking at Jims bio to see what he looked like and Daves picture- I was reallly not interested in reading how the site characterized all those peoples lives. It felt false.
I wonder how many people actually read them.
It is much more interesting to read journals.

Just like I cant seem to bring myself to read tabloids- I couldnt read that site.
Z

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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 03:15:14 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Zelda
Subject: ::lobbing mollies::
Message:
The sad part is the bongo authoring that crap thinks he's making
a lot of sense. What he's doing is weaving fantasy with factoids -
he's making up huge chunks of it in his zeal to bring harm.

A deep-seated part of him knows it is evil, and it is eating him alive. He wants to stop, but he can't.

I challenge him to do mine. I promise I won't lift a finger to
stop him, or counter his insane lies. It's kind of like calling
Miss Cleo .. a smutty diversion from hum-drum reality; or getting
an astrology reading. Sure, it's fun. But it's a ride at a
carnival, nothing more.
[ My Home Page ]

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 14:25:32 (EDT)
From: EBay Alert
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Sacred Journey and Penthouse 74
Message:
Found this when I punched in Cult on Ebay:

SACRED JOURNEY Maharaj Ji DIVINE LIGHT CULT

I know it's not a cult, I just cut and paste. Looks like a great book, would make a great addition to the EPO Library.

Here is the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1457592302

Description:

SACRED JOURNEYS
THE
CONVERSION OF YOUNG AMERICANS TO
DIVINE LIGHT MISSION

Written By James Downton Jr., Copyright 1979, Hardbound w/dj, 241 pages, Illustrated with B&W Photographs, past lib copy with ffep removed & minor markings, otherwise Good + Condition.
From the flyleaf:
'At its height, The Divine Light Mission of the young Guru Maharaj Ji had attracted 1.2 million international followers...Considering why the followers came to see spirituality as a solution to their problems, (author) details how they were led to join Divine Light Mission and what happened after their conversion...

(hmmmm...what ever happened to that peace-n-love group of hippies?) ________________________________________

Also the now famous 74 Penthouse with the article 'Violence in the court of Guru Maharaj Ji' about the pie throwing incident and the subsequent ass kicking (allegedly by followers of the man once known as the Lord of the Universe).

Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1458602485

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 14:12:18 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Hey EV, where's England ????
Message:
OK I take it www.elanvital.org is INTERNATIONAL yeah? Not just
catering for Yanks.

Well how about this for a piece of EV spin mixed up and stirred with
US imperialism

All inconsequential I guess but just ANOTHER bit of avoidance if
not airbrushing. In the M's Biog section .....he sort of leaves India
and travels to USA where lo and behold he is acclaimed as a '
prodigy' etc

Hmmm what about Woodside Avenue in North London? What about
the festival in that tiny terraced house in Leicester ( one which a
girlfriend of mine ended up living in ...and we thought was DIVINE)
where he was sitting in the room and all the Indians filling up the
backyard , peering in the window.

What about all the time in Loughborough.

A whole heap of stuff went on in England long before the ancient
Romans er sorry, Americans got in on the act.

I know Hollywood ( as witnessed recently in that film about the
enimga device sailors ie it was a 100 per cent Brit op but lo and
behold it's turned into an American story ....stop stealing peoples
heroes and history you immature vainglorious yanks )

Ah maybe all the Brits were jus bedraggled, drug taking hippies and
Maharaji was a penniless pauper till things kicked off .....best to
ignore all that ......wouldn't want Hollywood to find out about that
stuff

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:22:17 (EDT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: It's the Post Imperial malaise Dermot
Message:
We can't even be given the credit for being the 1st to import a fakir from the Jewel in the Crown into the western world.

Very convenient for some though : Hey youse guys , Saphlanand , Sandy , M. Finch , Glen , & the others , care to explain why & how all this came about ; your part in history after all, don't let those yankee rebels steal all the thunder.

Yeah : Woodside ave.
Golden manor
palace 'o peace
Westminster hall
St. Peter's Church hall
Someplace round Kings Cross station where all the whores hung out
ETC.

Cross Saphlanand off the list he's long time gonzo.

But you others?

Pat Dorrity

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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 01:09:29 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Maltese Dermot? [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 14:05:11 (EDT)
From: take a stand?
Email: None
To: All
Subject: an open letter to EV/M?
Message:
I am wondering if it would be a good idea to draft a formal letter to EV/M, outlining the abuses that are occurring with the recent CAC site?

This letter would spell out what has happened and why M should take an immediate stand on it.
If he does disavow it and ask for its removal, great!
If he doesn't respond, it would be another example of how he is indirectly supporting it.
I might ask in the letter how he would feel if some of his children were on a list similar to CAC, and would he respond then?
I might also ask if he finds the cac site offensive or not....should it be brought under control, or not?
What does he see wrong with it, or is it OK to him?

Also, this might open up a dialogue about other things as well, including:

1-does m endorse the cac, or its tactics?
2-will he take a stand on it?
3-SPECIFICALLY, what does he feel is FACTUALLY wrong on any of the ex-premie sites?
If something is stated as fact, and it is absolutely erroneous, it will be removed.
However, he should respond to the many allegations from former followers about his personal life and take the opportunity to either-
a)admit that they are true, and let the chips fall where they may..
b)declare that they are all, or any part of them, untrue and categorically deny them, for once and for all.
4)Is there a dialog that may now be set up, between m, his followers, and the ex-followers, so that we can all end this silly 'internet jihad'
and clear up this mess for once and for all?
If this dialog is not set up, and ansers are not gotten, it will only escalate further, with all sides being the losers.

The ball is clearly in m's court...
By that I mean that he can end all of this now by finally telling the truth and sparing everyone, including himself and followers, a lot of misery by simply telling the truth and letting everyone make up their own minds as to what they will do once they really know the whole story...

As with the MRC letter, this letter could very clearly lay out the whole story, and ask for m's opinions and cooperation.
If he fails to respond or engage in some sort of dialog, it will only point out further where he stands on the se issues, and why things will only get worse for him and everyone around him...

Comments?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:50:33 (EDT)
From: BTDT
Email: None
To: take a stand?
Subject: Re: an open letter to EV/M?
Message:
But wait! Maybe they'll sue CAC too, just like Jagdeo....!!!!!
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:14:21 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: BTDT
Subject: VERY FUNNY!
Message:
Good one!
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:10:57 (EDT)
From: silvia, afraid of the cult memebrs
Email: None
To: take a stand?
Subject: Good idea nt
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:04:07 (EDT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: take a stand?
Subject: why M should take an immediate stand
Message:
I would have thought that any premie with half an ounce of concern for what the CAC site is doing to Maharaji's own reputation would have alerted him already.

For instance - they insinuate that Michael Dettmers could be a paedophile and should be kept away from children (simply because he's walked away from the Maha). What kind of idiot would do that? A representative of blind, cultic devotion maybe, but is that really the kind of company Maharaji wants to keep, and wants to represent him? Maybe it is.

If CAC had any sense, they'd stick to the truth. They might not WANT to believe the messengers (such as Michael Dettmers) who have revealed the less-than-flattering truth about Maharaji's private life. I guess that's only human. But not all accusations turn out to be lies, no matter how unpalatable they might be. Whoever said that 'truth hurts' was obviously on the mark. That's no reason to make truth your enemy though, is it? I hope the premies behind CAC think about that - and its consequences.

Surely it can't have escaped them that Elan Vital itself is accusing one of Maharaji's own mahatma/instructors of the very same thing - paedophilia - that CAC insinuate about Dettmers?

The difference is that there IS evidence against the mahatma, hence (presumably) EV's professed court action against him.

CAC, on the other hand, have absolutely no evidence whatsoever against Michael, and their libel might just land them in very deep water indeed - them AND the Maha (who has not, as yet, spoken out against them, hence implying that he condones their tactics? I wonder).

No matter how much premies love their 'master', I hope they won't forget the word of another 'master' who is claimed to have said: '...the truth will set you free'.

But, then again, - when has freedom ever been commensurate with premiedom?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 14:49:22 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: take a stand?
Subject: I agree EV needs to set the record straight
Message:
Their silence on this matter is an implicit endorsement.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 14:59:40 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Well Bjorn reckons an ex set up cac ! NT
Message:
zz
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:11:13 (EDT)
From: Bjørn E
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Wrong Dermot
Message:
I recon an ex-ex together with some people that has nothing to do with M or K is behind this. I wrote that on the LG in a reply to Joe

But ist is just my 2 cents

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:18:29 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Bjørn E
Subject: Well ther's only
Message:
one ex-ex we know of here in cyberland ie Bazza BUT there may be more ex-ex lurkers. But lurkers wouldn't know anyone ....so are you saying it's Bazza?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:55:39 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Someone should ask Katie
Message:
I'm blocked from LG but someone emailed me and said that Katie claims to be able to prove it wasn't Bazza. Would someone be so kind to ask her what she's talking about?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:15:22 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Someone should ask Katie
Message:
Haha I bet you're itching to be posting on LG .......don't worry Jim the withdrawal symptons will pass :)

My much mentioned hol starts tomorrow so I'm away from the comp for a while .....therefore was posting like crazzy on LG today.

I'll put a Q to Katie for ya but like Isabellalazarus Katie is Katiefromthebeyond .....so whether there's a reply .......dunno.

Why did Cd ban you anyway? That was a bit arbitary.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:58:22 (EDT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Jim, no news yet but I've emailed ya NT
Message:
ccc
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:02:29 (EDT)
From: Bjørn E
Email: None
To: Dermot
Subject: Ther might be others ...
Message:
than Bazza. It looked like Bazza went through a lot when he left your group. But I have no idea , it is just myeducated guess.

By the way I am not going to write here, I just found this site by accident. As I said in my post, I think it is better for all parties that exes stay in this 'sandbox' and those who would like to express the enjoyment of life stays in th LG 'sandbox' Ciao

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:05:25 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Bjørn E
Subject: bjorn, I'll make you a deal
Message:
If you stop posting on this forum, I will stop posting on Lifes Great forum. Deal?
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 17:00:50 (EDT)
From: Bjørn E
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Gerry, I stand by your deal
Message:
and I hope for peace. For everyone.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:42:23 (EDT)
From: Carlos
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Make some other deal with him, gerry!
Message:
If you stop posting on this forum, I will stop posting on Lifes Great forum. Deal?


---

IMO you are an ex who should be ever welcome at ANY forum. You demonstrate decorum and apropriate behaviour close to 100% of the time, pretty damn good for a human being!

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 22:50:36 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Carlos
Subject: Carlos, my response to u on LG wasdeleted
Message:
I was having a conversation over there with you - which I always enjoy. You said that there were sick premies with a cult mentality but you were not one of those. I replied:

I should really have said that the elite inner circle of premies are the cult. I don't for one minute include you with them. You know that I trust and respect you completely and know that you only want to speak the truth. You are like most of my premie friends (kind, sweet, warm and caring people) but last year when I got involved with the EV honchos (CT will confirm this) they gave me such creeps I had to leave.

One of the honchos said to me, ''Why do you associate with the sheep (meaning community premies) when they are such losers?'' Yep, there are some very nasty people running a cult at the top.

You replied:

(There is a) clique that many people THINK has more power over EV and M's prachar than I believe to be the case. My opinion is based on my observations while having lived in the LA community for many years, then moving to Orange County. I was one of the people who worked wit MB(P when, as she put it, the mailing list of the N American premies was her roomate. About 5 of us were the nucleous around which invitations to 'festivals' went out and seating reservations were processed. Myself and another 1 of that core group got called to fly down to Miami when seating was being handled locally for an event there and got all scewed up. (We were able, with the help of the local volenteer's willingness to pull a few 20 hour shifts, to get it straightened out; I doubt if even 5 people were upset in the end.


I've been out of that end of it for a few years now, so I can't affirm of my own knowledge that things are still done with that same degree of integrity, but a very good friend of mine, who headed up security for the recent annual fundraising party for sponsorship (one of the reasons anyone can now access satelite feeds on DISH Network, at no extra cost) sees no change at that level of service.

This was my response but it was deleted:

The volunteers who do service for EV are not the people I am talking about. EV is unfairly scapegoated when it really is simply a collection of sincere volunteers. I meant the wealthy PAMs in the inner business circle of the cult many of whom I met when they were brought to the restaurant by the local high holy church ladies. As a fairly big donor I was regarded as a potential recruit for this cynical and amoral group of people.

At first I thought that M was simply tolerating these people because he was so sweet and kind and innocent and did not see how evil and dangerous they were. Later I began to wonder why he would keep such bad company if he is such a good man. The suicide of the aspirant (which CT can also tell you about) was the final straw for me and I left. Then I found EPO and things began to make sense.

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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 13:53:20 (EDT)
From: BDTD
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Re: Carlos, my response to u on LG wasdeleted
Message:
Well, that explains a hella of a lot. David Mancoff came to our community for fund raising. He was so obnoxious and arrogant it was downright frightening. He didn't like the facilities, etc etc etc etc. Looking down his nose it was just wild. I couldn't believe this attitude was acceptable, along with the expense account to bring him, was for real. Oh, but he accepted the great food that was offered. What was hilarious was everything that could remotely go wrong did. The local pwks were howling, because we thought 'lila' was teaching him a lesson in surrender. Boy what a joke!

'Losers'?
How dare they. Not everyone who has money out here makes it a known fact to these people which evidently is the prerequisite in Maharaji's world for not being a loser. Geeze, and all this time I mistakenly thought it was getting knowledge by the lord that helped us not to be 'losers' in this life. 'Sheep'? Sheeeeeeesh, that's a bit of an oximoron.

Sheep and losers? I don't think there's anything that has been said or written, except for the Jagdeo attrocities, that has hit me so strongly.

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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 14:05:27 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: BDTD
Subject: Sheep and losers, BTDT
Message:
The thing that hit me even more strongly than that was being told by one of these high holy muckety-mucks from Malibu that I had to be careful what I said to the other premies because they should NOT know everything and ''Maharji can't say everything.'' Nudge-nudge, wink-wink. The stench of secrecy was disgusting.

I've never hidden anything and can't stand secrets and lies so I would email them and get this answer: ''Could we have lunch tomorrow. I really don't want to answer by email because it's such a cold, impersonal medium, don't you think?'' They did not want to put anything in writing. I don't blame them. If I were part of a conspiracy I would be reluctant too.

Aren't you glad that you're out of it? I just feel freer, cleaner and happier everyday.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 14:15:24 (EDT)
From: t-a-s-#2
Email: None
To: take a stand?
Subject: Re: an open letter to EV/M?
Message:
One other suggestion:

Is there a premie out there in cyber space that would volunteer to participate in the drafting of the letter?

Myabe someone like David Andreaon or his sister, who have shown some interest in dialoging with exes, and is articulate and respectful...

This might ensure that the letter was well balanced, spoke for both sides, and that it's intent was simply to get to the truth about this whole matter.

Surely this would be in line with a group whose message is peace, clarity, understanding, love etc...?

Could the drafting of this letter possibly be the start of a dialog?
Could it be done in a way that would make the allegations against the exes as being a bunch of 'haters' seem silly?
The 'ex' group could simply express that what they want are real answers, and that is it!

If it made it's point clearly and strongly, and showed why
1-doing it would help
and
2)why not doing it would do more harm than good...

I think that a non-response or non-participation from M/EV would speak volumes...
And a response from them might open something up...

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 14:27:40 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: t-a-s-#2
Subject: Good idea but...
Message:
... why not take a stand by telling us who you are or at least select a user name that we can recognize. (By the way, it's quite annoying to follow threads when folks use the name field to begin the topic.)

As far as a definitive letter, that's a good idea along the lines of the MRC or 14 Objections. They were never directly responded to but the CACa site could be part of the 15th Objection, I suppose. I don't expect M will ever 'lower himself' to acknowledge dissension but many premies do read this site and are affected by it.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 14:03:27 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: timmi56@yahoo.com
To: All
Subject: pictures
Message:
I just picked up the visions catalogue. I had no idea you could order photos of rawrat. Wallet size, too! ''Be still my beating heart!'' Keep your lord on your wall, desk, or in your wallet right on your ass. Good idea! What better place to put a picture of the satassguru? 'Scuse me....I have to go barf.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 14:13:36 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: That's Nothing, Timmi...
Message:
compared to the days when I was a bona fide kisser of lotus toes, the premies had pictures of m on all walls of their homes, in wallets, on cars, in cars, individual ALTARS, yes, altars with our own special trinkets to adorn the place where we bowed down several times per day to the precious LARD OF THE UNIVARSE.

That's why so many of us exes are so furious about M's revision of himself as NOT being the incarnation of Christ, Krishna, etc., etc...He mandated that we stop doing that because he wanted to revise his image. Yet, those pix are a lot more expensive than they were 20-25 years ago. I still have dozens and dozens of photos of him that would blow your mind....:)

BTW, Timmi, I like you....your posts are articulate and you really get this stuff. Your contributions are very welcome here.

Thanks,
Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 03:18:29 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: here's something funny
Message:
My partner of 3 years found one of my old 'devotional' picure albums in a bookcase.She took a look at the pictures and said that he should be called LARD and not lord.
I have never talked to her that much about m and never referred to him as Lard and she has never read EPO sites.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:34:08 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Grab an air-sick bag
Message:
compared to the days when I was a bona fide kisser of lotus toes, the premies had pictures of m on all walls of their homes, in wallets, on cars, in cars, individual ALTARS, yes, altars with our own special trinkets to adorn the place where we bowed down several times per day to the precious LARD OF THE UNIVARSE.

That's why so many of us exes are so furious about M's revision of himself as NOT being the incarnation of Christ, Krishna, etc., etc...He mandated that we stop doing that because he wanted to revise his image. Yet, those pix are a lot more expensive than they were 20-25 years ago. I still have dozens and dozens of photos of him that would blow your mind....:)

BTW, Timmi, I like you....your posts are articulate and you really get this stuff. Your contributions are very welcome here.

Thanks,
Cynthia


---

Absolutely true. Some old Premies who were at Montrose in (I think)
1972 still keep an altar and a photo of *just* Maharaji's 'precious'
'lotus' .. feet.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:25:55 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Wherever I Look yer face is before me!
Message:
REMEMBER THIS?!!
da miragey cult sacramental paraphernalia and premie personal rite spaces:
m. altars: satsang hall,office,yer room,apt.,house,car

Wherever I Look yer face is before me!

da holi chair with his pic - no one else could sit in it [both at da satsang hall and at home];

m's pic in every room;

m's pic on da dashboard of da car;

K poster on da car;

k bumper sticker;

m necklace medalllion;

m buttons/pins;

m audio + video tapes;

m books;

m magazines;

m wallet photos;

m keychains;

m t-shirts;

m posters;

m movies;

m darshan;

m events;

m festivals;

m arti

m bolie sieg heils

pranam/protrate to da m pictures

m hymns

arti tray

jai suchabananas

remember da Name

yer in yer Mind

stay on da Word

doin' nectar

da 5th technique

coming from that place

sharing

givin' satsang

chitchat

that heart

His Grace

that ocean

the bliss

that Longing

that Lord

that Massa

that Great King

that gratitude

appreciation

service for da lord

agya of da lord

da word of da massa

da lord's lila

that all-powerful, all-knowing,

by his Grace da satguru da living incarnation of da Perfect Massa of our time

you are my all, my Lard to me, wherever I look your face is before me, yer CACa phony melts all da troubles away.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 16:33:47 (EDT)
From: Carl
Email: None
To: such
Subject: How could you forget charnamrit water??
Message:
The little spoon, holding your hands just so, the slurping, then wiping the residue into your hair or forehead or somewhere.

Also, it was interesting and often amusing to watch the various ways people waved their hands over the arti flames, somehow pulling the presumed blessings toward their foreheads.

Some folks were rather ostentatious, I recall. There were a number of variations:

The quick multiple waves, 'gatherings' you might say, with a final flourish.

The one-stroke-johnny with a 'namaste' gesture, fingertips at the third eye.

The slow, stately wave, like hoarding the glow, while the holder of the tray grew impatient to move on to the next person.

Years and years of this stuff! Amazing, really.

Fiat lux, everybody,
Carl

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:57:01 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: Re: How could you forget charnamrit water?
Message:
I can't believe we did that shit -- but you're right, there was
a *technique* to it. I'm sure the ghee-preparer also got off on
an exact technique to preparing the stuph, which I never had the
*service* of doing.
M*h*w*j* liked the smell of gardenia, so of course there were
gardenias.

There was usually a chair put up on a platform (a dais) and that
was Maharaji's chair. No matter how remote the possibility he'd
actually ever sit in it. I betcha a few Premies just couldn't
resist and actually *sat* in the chair, just for a moment, for
whatever reason their head told them to do it for. I didn't
because he was the Lord, and you don't sit in the Lord's chair
[/~You don't tug on Superman's cape /~ You don't spit in the wind ../~

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 20:58:57 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: ..Because he would *know* [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 18:27:13 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Carl
Subject: you got some charnamrit water? hohoho [nt]
Message:
yowsa hahahaha

lux eterna

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:13:11 (EDT)
From: silvia, afraid of maharaji
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: sorry, you forgot
Message:
also in our bathrooms. LOL
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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 03:24:30 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: silvia, afraid of maharaji
Subject: yes you are right
Message:
I remember beinbg told off for being 'unconscious'(by the housemother).

What did I do?

I took a shower and wetted a picture of m which was on the side of the bath!!!!

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Date: Fri, Aug 24, 2001 at 14:48:24 (EDT)
From: silvia, afraid of maharaji's POWER
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: LOL
Message:
tell me about it. One of my steamy baths ruined one of my favorite photos of maharaji with the crown and the mhala, and his bared chest...I thought it got ruined because the lord was mad at me for not loving him enough...

That was funny J.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:22:00 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: silvia, afraid of maharaji
Subject: I'm spitting on my monitor...LOLOL!!! [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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