Ex-Premie Forum 7 Archive
From: Aug 21, 2001 To: Aug 24, 2001 Page: 4 of: 5


Cedron -:- The Lord Of Something Great -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 22:49:15 (EDT)
__ gerry -:- nice one cedron [nt] -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 12:45:42 (EDT)

Abi -:- Some Ideas -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 22:37:39 (EDT)
__ A question to U -:- No more HATE? -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 03:02:21 (EDT)
__ __ Abi -:- Re: No more HATE? -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 03:21:36 (EDT)
__ BeenThereDoneThat -:- Re: Some Ideas -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 01:03:41 (EDT)
__ __ Abi -:- thanks -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 01:18:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ BeenThereDoneThat -:- Re: thanks -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 01:32:02 (EDT)
__ PatC -:- Re: Some Great Ideas -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 23:31:35 (EDT)
__ __ Abi -:- not all premies are evil -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 01:05:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ hamzen -:- Depends how you define 'evil' Abi -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 03:29:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yeah, the leverage is incredible -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:28:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Evil flourishes where good people do nothing. NT -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 08:15:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Hal -:- Yes - good point Hamzen ! nt -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 03:41:25 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Great post, great idea -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 22:59:56 (EDT)
__ __ Abi -:- sexism -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 23:09:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ Been There -:- Re: sexism -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 01:42:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ BeenThereDoneThat -:- Re: sexism -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 01:06:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Abi -:- agree -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 01:21:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Re: sexism - exactly -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 23:37:06 (EDT)

Joe -:- I guess the 19th century is over -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 21:10:29 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- Sorry, above is OT (nt) -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 21:13:44 (EDT)

suchabanana -:- [repost] fascist cult tactics vs. legitimacy -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 20:35:00 (EDT)

QUESTION -:- Are 'they' well payed by RAWAT lawyers? -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 20:30:19 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- Yes they do -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 21:08:41 (EDT)

Joe -:- Why is Maharaji such a victim? -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 20:28:45 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- Because he is delusional... -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:07:23 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- Re: Because he is delusional... -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:55:33 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- Endless heartache -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 20:50:15 (EDT)
__ __ Joy -:- One with Maharaji -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 04:07:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Hi Joy...you made me laugh -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:50:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- LOL! -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:24:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Re: One with Maharaji -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 04:39:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ a0aji -:- People aren't ONE with anything -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:27:27 (EDT)
__ __ BTDT -:- Re: Endless heartache -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 01:10:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ pan ji -:- Re: Endless heartache -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:29:38 (EDT)

Silvia -:- have anybody e-mail RAWAT the latest jewel? -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 20:20:07 (EDT)

Salam -:- EV trying to close it IS so -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 19:47:49 (EDT)
__ ninkyzin -:- Re: EV trying to close it IS so -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 20:44:33 (EDT)
__ __ Salam -:- Re: EV trying to close it IS so -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 02:52:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- Nicely said, Salam -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 04:44:07 (EDT)
__ __ Walk -:- we did -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 20:56:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ ninkyzin -:- Re: we did -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 09:13:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- In English, perhaps? -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:22:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ a0aji -:- Re: In English, perhaps? -:- Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:49:10 (EDT)
__ Rawat is no private person -:- and ? NT -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 19:58:49 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- That's not surprising -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 19:54:45 (EDT)
__ PatC -:- Ask them who complained -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 19:54:38 (EDT)
__ __ such -:- you got it right. r.e. publishing stuff: -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 21:43:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ such -:- correction: text 'with attribution' -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 21:57:55 (EDT)

PatC -:- MAMA does not like CACA -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 19:36:12 (EDT)
__ such -:- Incidentally, r.e. yer photo -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 21:52:09 (EDT)
__ __ PatC -:- Lousy pic but I'm glad -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 22:20:16 (EDT)
__ susiji -:- Re: MAMA does not like CACA -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 21:11:52 (EDT)

afraid of rawat -:- they sound so HATEFUL -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:15:04 (EDT)

Timmi -:- such evil...... -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:48:20 (EDT)
__ Suzanne -:- Re: such evil...... -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 19:53:24 (EDT)
__ PatC -:- Lots of love to you Timmi -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 19:42:31 (EDT)
__ suchabanana -:- such love! -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:05:48 (EDT)

Chuck S. -:- Oops, will try again... -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:38:44 (EDT)

Chuck S. -:- New forum: Anything Goes Too! -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:22:18 (EDT)

Ex -:- Why not publish a list of premies ? NT -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:08:47 (EDT)
__ salam -:- because -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 19:42:26 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- Because we stand on higher moral ground -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:37:53 (EDT)
__ __ Abi -:- I agree -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 22:44:29 (EDT)
__ __ Francesca -:- Right on, Richard -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:50:54 (EDT)
__ __ Evil is a hill: -:- We stand on ours and speak about others. [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:46:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ Richard -:- Meaning??? (nt) -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:50:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ a0aji -:- [yt] -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:53:06 (EDT)
__ a0aji -:- Re: Why not publish a list of premies ? NT -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:19:11 (EDT)
__ Rick -:- Dumb -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:17:59 (EDT)
__ __ Ex -:- Re: Dumb and to aoaji -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:45:30 (EDT)

what CAC says about who they are -:- could this be a clue or just designed to throw off -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 16:19:26 (EDT)
__ JohnT -:- There is no 'they' -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:30:44 (EDT)

Silvia -:- I hate you maharaji for what you did -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 16:19:07 (EDT)
__ Joey -:- Re: I hate you maharaji for what you did -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 23:20:59 (EDT)
__ __ Silvia -:- Re: I hate you maharaji for what you did -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 23:40:29 (EDT)

gerry -:- the CAC crew cleaned up my bio -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 16:08:36 (EDT)
__ JHB -:- Couldn't do it... -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 19:23:32 (EDT)
__ such -:- what's 'gamahucheing'? -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:47:32 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- It's a lot like gamelon and bremsstrahlung [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:32:53 (EDT)
__ Rick -:- That's what you call very gErRy (nt) -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:25:54 (EDT)
__ a0aji -:- Re: the CAC crew cleaned up my bio -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:05:32 (EDT)
__ Pat:C) -:- Mine's an improvement too -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 16:58:49 (EDT)

gerry -:- Rawat--an arrogant TWIT -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 15:55:06 (EDT)
__ Silvia -:- arrogant is: Me or NOTHING TWIT -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 16:08:00 (EDT)

WMary -:- what is link? -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 15:29:01 (EDT)
__ Here it is -:- but take along a barf bag -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 15:37:05 (EDT)

Richard -:- Let's not forget the Jagdeo matter -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 15:06:15 (EDT)
__ a0aji -:- Don't Feed The Trolls, Part II -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:23:49 (EDT)
__ silvia -:- maharaji protects child abuser Jagdeo -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 16:21:06 (EDT)
__ Cynthia -:- Jagdeo/Maharaji won't be forgotten... -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 15:26:28 (EDT)

Anonymous -:- ex premie defense fund -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:45:30 (EDT)
__ silvia -:- I second that -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:52:40 (EDT)

Pat:C) -:- CAC removes reference to other Conlon -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:43:40 (EDT)
__ Bob -:- xxxxx(durgaji) -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 15:52:09 (EDT)
__ __ Pat:C) -:- Re: xxxxx(durgaji) -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 16:57:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ a0aji -:- Patty Hearst-ga Ji -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:45:22 (EDT)

Jim -:- My second letter to ISP's re CAC -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:57:00 (EDT)
__ Salam -:- Re: My second letter to ISP's re CAC -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 19:44:55 (EDT)
__ a0aji -:- Interesting. [nt] -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:51:47 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Oops! Mistake and correction -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 15:22:42 (EDT)
__ Way -:- Thanks, Jim -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:08:03 (EDT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Excellent idea -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:12:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ Way -:- My email to EV regarding CAC -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:27:38 (EDT)

Roger eDrek -:- Updated House of Maharaji Drek links -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:32:51 (EDT)

Jim -:- Did anyone save Dave's CAC page? -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:16:57 (EDT)
__ here -:- Re: Did anyone save Dave's CAC page? -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:13:18 (EDT)
__ silvia -:- no? -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:55:26 (EDT)

Joe -:- Marianne, Jim and JHB -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 12:59:32 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Re: Marianne, Jim and JHB -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:09:55 (EDT)
__ __ Joe -:- Jim didn't come through -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:02:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Re: Jim didn't come through -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:12:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Thanks 2 -emails coming -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:21:25 (EDT)
__ __ Marianne -:- I'm around -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:41:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- don't forget about me - I'm next on the hit list -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:25:20 (EDT)

Joe -:- The latest CAC Atrocity -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 12:31:05 (EDT)
__ such -:- r.e. Victoria's Secret mirror: -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:54:38 (EDT)
__ Victoria Clemens -:- Action > -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 12:57:49 (EDT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Abusing Others Without Consequences... -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 15:53:34 (EDT)
__ __ Way -:- My Dear Victoria: -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:02:35 (EDT)
__ __ Joe -:- Sadism, hatred, sickness -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:04:59 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Yes, Joe, excellent idea -- JHB? -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 12:55:24 (EDT)
__ Richard -:- Good idea Joe -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 12:52:45 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- But keep something in mind -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 12:43:22 (EDT)
__ __ Victoria Clemens -:- really...? -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:10:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Really... -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:28:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Victoria -:- No... -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:33:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Abi -:- Dear Victoria -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 22:51:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- That wasn't the question -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:39:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Here's a threat I'm prepared to stand by -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:18:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Re: Here's a threat I'm prepared to stand by -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:00:57 (EDT)

Richard -:- Is an Ex Forum still needed? -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 11:22:53 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- YES!! -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:07:07 (EDT)
__ __ a0aji -:- Re: YES!! -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:17:43 (EDT)
__ __ Richard -:- Re: YES!! -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:38:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ a0aji -:- Re: YES!! -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:58:00 (EDT)
__ Joe -:- I think there is a need for both -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 12:37:22 (EDT)
__ a0aji -:- Re: Is an Ex Forum still needed? -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 11:45:36 (EDT)
__ __ Richard -:- Good point aOaji -:- Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 12:03:02 (EDT)


Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 22:49:15 (EDT)
From: Cedron
Email: None
To: All
Subject: The Lord Of Something Great
Message:
THE LORD OF SOMETHING GREAT

Thou rulest by fear.
It is not the love that gives.
There is no war
Save what thou hast created.
This is thy war, thy doing
And thou shalt gather up the spoils
And they will be as nothing.

Thou art the Lord of something great
That thou hast fashioned
By thy hands.
A kingdom,
Yes a kingdom great
That's what it is,
A land that's filled
With nought but hate.
O Great One
They bow to you,
Thou art the Lord of Hate.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 12:45:42 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Cedron
Subject: nice one cedron [nt]
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 22:37:39 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Some Ideas
Message:
I think that it might be a good idea if I create my own website about the Jagdeo issue. It might be a way of deflecting the heat.

I know many are concerned that their names will appear on the hit list soon. I think one of the things they want is to remove all references to Jagdeo on the internet. I fully expect them to attack me. Who knows, maybe I'll be accused of stalking the man who raped me. I wonder what the university will think of that? I don't think the feminists will find it amusing at all.

In this website I would put up the following information which would provide a coherent narrative of the whole sordid affair.

1. Details of my experiences in the cult, and the abuse by Jagdeo and the effects it had on my life.

2. Details of the attempts to seek somesort of justice and truth about this issue since 99, the people involved and the threats that have been made against them.

3. An open history of the ways in which Elan Vital and Maharaji have appraoched me and the Jagdeo issue in general, including all significant documents.

4. Details of the numerous abusive posts made to me by premies. I'm sure that I would be able to collate quite a handful from the archives. I would also include abusive posts made by premies to other women. Also posts made to others about Jagdeo which are abusive in any manner.

5. Copies of the numerous e-mails I have sent Elan Vital about Jagdeo including the ones to Linda Gross about the so-called press release.

6. Contextual information on child abuse within cults with appropriate links.

7. A profile of Jagdeo and his activities within Divine Light Mission and Elan Vital. Psychological profiles of pedophiles and how they typically operate within cults and churches.

8. Suggestions to Elan Vital about how to screen for sex offenders within their organisation with appropriate links.

10. Links to cult watch groups in the West and who to contact if your child is in a cult. Where to go for counselling.

Can't think of anything else at the moment. Not sure how to put up a website but I shall talk to a friend who has nothing to do with any of this on how to create it.

Someone warned me that it was going to get really nasty.

I like this poem by Charlotte Perkins Gilman (1860-1935) who wrote the feminist classic 'The Yellow Wallpaper'.

An Obstacle

I was climbing up a mountain-path
With many things to do,
Important business of my own,
And other people's too,
When I ran against a Prejudice
That quite cut off the view.

My work was such as could not wait,
My path quite clearly showed,
My strength and time were limited,
I carried quite a load;
And there that hulking Prejudice
Sat all across the road.

So I spoke to him politely,
For he was huge and high,
And I begged that he would move a bit
And let me travel by.
He smiled, but as for moving!—
He didn't even try.

And then I reasoned quietly
With that colossal mule:
My time was short - no other path-
The mountain winds were cool.
I argued like a Solomon;
He sat there like a fool.

Then I flew into a passion,
And I danced and howled and swore.
I pelted and belaboured him
Till I was stiff and sore;
He got mad as I did —
But he sat there as before.

And then I begged him on my knees;
I might be kneeling still
If so I hoped to move that mass
Of obdurate ill-will—
As well invite the monument
To vacate Bunker Hill!

So I sat before him helpless,
In an ecstasy of woe —
The mountain mists were rising fast,
The sun was sinking low —
When a sudden inspiration came,
As sudden winds do blow.

I took my hat, I took my stick,
My load I settled fair,
I approached that awful incubus
With an absent-minded air —
And I walked directly through him,
As if he wasn't there!

Charlotte Perkins Gilman was subjected to the infamous 'rest cure' for hysteria in the 19thC. Told to 'never touch pen, brush or pencil again' for the rest of her life by a respected doctor, she eventually rebelled, escaped the room she was confined to and went on to write about the pathologisation of women who speak out against patriarchy.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 03:02:21 (EDT)
From: A question to U
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: No more HATE?
Message:
really?

you love issuing grand pronouncements in bold capitals.

so, what's behind your wonderful ten points website fantasy?

Oh yea, it's just brimming with love and reason and good energy

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 03:21:36 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: A question to U
Subject: Re: No more HATE?
Message:
I'm not sure you understand the difference between justice and revenge. Look it up in the dictionary.

You sound like you hate.

Fed up with it!

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 01:03:41 (EDT)
From: BeenThereDoneThat
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Some Ideas
Message:
Abi,

I don't know if you were able to read my post a week or so ago. I wondered if you would be interested in heading a foundation for children/adults that were harmed within cults/religions. Perhaps it could be set up so they could have counseling if need be, while waiting for restitution, as well as, access to the laws where they live. I don't think anyone should have to wait for counseling. The healing needs to begin immediately, and funding could be made available. I can think of no other person on the face of the earth that would have the kind of heart to head such a foundation. Just a thought to add to your web site.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 01:18:30 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: thanks
Message:
I wish I could help and do something possitive for the adult survivors of sex abuse. Where the funding would come from I just don't know though.

This is getting pretty disgusting isn't it...

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 01:32:02 (EDT)
From: BeenThereDoneThat
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: thanks
Message:
Truly disgusting. They are certainly showing their true colors.

Funding could come from those that are appalled by all this. Premies and non-premies. There are grants. I'm also conntected to non-premies in Malibu that have a great deal of money. Right now I'm trying to figure out just what words I need to use to apologize for ever sending them an audio intro tape. Lots of people Abi, are behind you. To do something really positive is more worthwhile than anything this CACa could possibly conceive.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 23:31:35 (EDT)
From: PatC
Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Some Great Ideas
Message:
And I'll help with any html if you need it. Or any other web design stuff.

You said; ''Someone warned me that it was going to get really nasty.''

Me too. Not all premies are evil.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 01:05:30 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: not all premies are evil
Message:
Some of them are beautiful people. I agree. But this is doing my head in.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 03:29:10 (EDT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Depends how you define 'evil' Abi
Message:
If they continue to support someone who quite openly covers up, and allows sexual exploitation of minors and women, see Jim's post elsewhere,
as well as all the other abominations of big boy/ev then they are no different than those members of the general population in Germany in the 30's, or elsewhere when fascism happens.
In the end gm IS a dictatotial completely uncaring leader who abuses individuals, and premies are supporting him.

At a time like this, as the nastiness ripens, their silence ius just as evil as jagdeo, the other molesting mahatmas and THE second hand car dealer himself.

Even Hitler himself bought Eva Braun flowerts every week and loved his dog, and was a vegetarian.
You can be nice & still be evil.

Every 'nice' premie who does nothing about your situation, and the other available info, is hiding behind the size of big boys greed and abuse.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:28:39 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Yeah, the leverage is incredible
Message:
Aoaji,

Agreed.

It's as if the premies have this small little crowbare of residual morality by which they could, if they chose to, pry off the big rock of thier cult leader. The crowbar's strong enough but the leverage scares them. Can they really pry off something so big?

Answer: yes!

Alternative: Ostrichism. Whistling arti while CAC keeps adding good, honest ex-followers to the 'Worst Alleged Cyberstalkers' stockade.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 08:15:17 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Evil flourishes where good people do nothing. NT
Message:
sd
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 03:41:25 (EDT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Yes - good point Hamzen ! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 22:59:56 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Great post, great idea
Message:
Abi,

Although I know you and I could have a wonderful argument over the 'patriarchal' implications of your abuse by Jagdeo and ultimatley the cult and its leader, I'm completely with you on the core issues and your response and perspective. Your website idea sounds great, all of it. If there's anything I'd add, it's just this intracult contextual stuff, concerning the evidence that Jagdeo was only one of a number of sexual assailants and exploiters Maharaji knew of but failed to shield the premies from lest he lose his 'saintly' sales force.

Here's how I put it, by coincidence, in an email earlier today. (I'm not going to go to jail for quoting my own email, am I?):

The suspicion that Maharaji may indeed have dealt with Jagdeo irresponsibly is borne out by a pattern of exposing premies to men he publically touted as nothing less than 'saints' when he knew and had, in fact, already punished or chastised them for decidedly unsaintly conduct. For example, Mahatma Tejeswarand was allowed to tour in western Canada after Maharaji knew and had chastised him for sexually exploiting premie women. As his misconduct was kept secret, premies were left to revere him as a 'realized soul' annointed as such by Maharaji himself. Tejeshwarand was thus allowed to create a literal harem of women in Vancouver wherer he moved all the residents out of one of the two ashrams there. He was thus able to sexually exploit three or four women, including the wife of a local premie who believed, at the time, that this 'personal attention' was facilitating her spiritual progress. Another woman flew up from an east coast American city to live with him there. Mahatma Ji even impregnated a woman during a Knowledge session in Nelson, B.C. before he was finally taken off tour.

An even worse example of Maharaji compromising the security of his premies to avoid scandal was the case of Mahatma Trebinanand. He was apparently caught sexually exploiting a women in the southern U.S. and was reprimanded and assigned to menial labor as punishment. However, this matter was dealt with very discretely so that none knew they should be on guard when 'Mahatma Ji' was back on tour. This allowed Mahatma Ji an opportunity to rape a young woman in Regina, Saskatchewan in the summer of 1974. She was so traumatized and confused by the esperience that she carved a circle into her forehead and was institutionalized for a lengthy period.

There were other sexual transgressions committed by mahatmas that Maharaji was aware of. For instance, Mahatma Parlokanand was sent back to India, eventually, after molesting several young boys.

It seems abundantly clear that Maharaji avoided breaking the mystique of mahatmas as 'holy men' although failing to do so left the premies worshipping them and thus extremely vulnerable to such assaults and exploitation. This fact necessarily adds credence to the accounts on hand that Maharaji was indeed aware of the complaints against Jagdeo but, for whatever reason, failed to act.

Thus, it's all the more likely that Susan DID tell Randy and Judy and that your father DID tell Gurucharanand and that, most importantly, Maharaji knew. He just didn't care enough.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 23:09:23 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: sexism
Message:
Jim,

I agree that further context about abuse of women in the cult would be a good idea.

I really do think that DLM/EV created a very sexist environment. It imported an oppressive caste system and archaic patriarchal beliefs from India. A lot of those Mahatmas had very little respect for women, to say the least. A premie friend on mine can remember Jagdeo talking about women as cesspools in one 'holy' satsang. For me the measure of a culture or an organisation is how it treats women and children. DLM/EV failed n that respect.

Abi

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 01:42:16 (EDT)
From: Been There
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: sexism
Message:
DLM was HORRIBLY sexist. Right Abi. Imported garbage from India. Ramakrishna spoke about the two downfalls of man being 'woman and gold.' That philosophy is still prevalent. How does that message make the women feel? It's garbage. Total garbage. It's changing hopefully, though slowly.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 01:06:11 (EDT)
From: BeenThereDoneThat
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: sexism
Message:
As awful as it sounds, non-Indian women and children even less.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 01:21:10 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: BeenThereDoneThat
Subject: agree
Message:
I've noticed that but then not all Indian men are like this. White men treat non-white women and children very badly too. Sexism gets caught up in racism and it's all about a sick need to have power.
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 23:37:06 (EDT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: sexism - exactly
Message:
What else was the double standard about - it's okay for PSR to keep a mistress but not for his wife to have an affair? What about the contemptuous sexism of having sleazy trysts with blonde employees whom he dumps when it suits him?
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 21:10:29 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: I guess the 19th century is over
Message:
The racist, homophobic, anti-art-expression, Jesse Helms is retiring in North Carolina. Ding dong the witch is dead.
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 21:13:44 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Sorry, above is OT (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 20:35:00 (EDT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: All
Subject: [repost] fascist cult tactics vs. legitimacy
Message:
Dear Sisters and Brothers:

Remember when miragey used to diss the internet all the time? Then he apparently instructed premies not to go to ex-premie.org Then elan vital staffers began telling premies to call it ex-premie.hate . Then Prempal recently made reference at an event to a 'war'. Now, voila!

Let's look at this spiraling recent pattern:

1) I just checked some search engines, and I counted at least 33 official or otherwise sanctioned elan vital and miragey international websites, a number of which are recent additions to the internet;

2) using both litigation and covert means, cult agents have simultaneously been trying to completely silence any public criticism of miragey [a controversial public figure] whatsoever worldwide;

3) cult members have spammed and hacked ex-premie websites/forums;

4) some cult members have urged others to commit violence against ex-premie critics of miragey, including taking a 'baseball bat' to them;

5) using a remote web base in Russia (curiously), anonymous miragey cult members are now using implicit/explicit blackmail to shut down or silence miragey critics;

6) cult members are revealing and publishing private email addresses, home phones, addresses, and other personal data of miragey's critics on the internet [including photos of their small children], as well as threatening to escalate these activities, thereby deliberately exposing the guru's critics and their families to foreseeable and imminent harm from deranged cult fanatics, especially in light of violence committed in the past by fanatical and otherwise deluded miragey cult members [including a murder in Florida committed by a devotee claiming to hear voices, a vicious assault by a devotee with a weapon on an aspirant, and in at least one case homicidal vengeance incited by miragey's own family and his instructors -- e.g. the 1973 assassination attempt on reporter Pat Halley];

7) cult agent provacateurs infiltrated and stole private confidential information regarding posters at ex-premie websites, and they are now in illegal possession of [and may have shared] that information;

8) some cult members are presently waging a hateful blackmail scare campaign, using Red-baiting, homophobic, and right-wing Zionist political stances, as well as targeting the critics' families and places of employment.

This pattern has stepped up markedly ever since miragey began allegedly making references about an internet 'war' [as reported by posters who attended some events during the past few months]. Additionally, Pat Conlon has reported that he was tipped off by a cult insider that an internet vendetta was in the works.

It is my opinion that the cult is employing these patently fascist tactics as part of a concerted strategy to on one hand saturate the internet with pro-miragey propaganda, while instilling fear and stifling any valid criticisms or testimonies regarding miragey and his operatives -- that would inevitably expose his cult and its operations to serious public and governmental scrutiny.

This situation raises both ethical and legal issues, as well as certain personal safety concerns. Blackmail is a criminal offense in most countries, internet theft and dissemination of private or confidential information is also a crime, incitement to commit bodily harm is also a crime, and medieval guru-based fascism is not consistent with fundamental principles of democracy and freedom -- nor bona fide spirituality. Rather, these examples only serve to underline the validity of the many testimonials and criticisms about the guru and his personality cult [a registered church, btw], which has enriched him and his family materially substantially at the expense of thousands of his trusting and adoring believers.

For the record, I personally do Not regard 'premies' as my enemies. On the contrary, many of my closest friends for almost 30 years have been or still are premies, and I considered myself a true-blue devotee of miragey until I read enough documentation and testimonials on the internet at ex-premie.org last year to convince me to question and research as much in-depth information as possible about the finances, history, and insider accounts surrounding miragey, his claims, and his organization and its abuses. Combined with my own extensive experiences as a person who was involved for many years and did service in the organization in various capacities, I had to face the painful reality that I had been spiritually seduced into being a member of a feudalistic dictatorial cult whose leadership is responsible for a pattern of numerous abuses inflicted upon its own members.

I firmly subscribe to the view that the best course for cult critics and adherents is the protocol of civil dialogue, based on issues, facts, and testimomy, not based on fear or blackmail. If I have ever been impassioned in my own criticism of miragey, it is only because I sacrificed so much of my life, including material comfort, a career and my child, out of a misguided dedication to him in the past -- based on his repeated pronouncements during the 1970s of messianic divinity [which he never renounced] mixed with some simple yogic meditation techniques.

We have a protected legitimate right to voice our informed viewpoints regarding a public figure like miragey who has proclaimed himself to be a Master and who has thrust himself on the world stage as a messianic charismatic leader, accumulating vast wealth and a cult of thousands of devotees in the process.

In conclusion, the current fascist campaign of fear being waged against miragey's most ardent critics is absolutely contrary to the philosophy of the very peace he purports, although consistent with some past cult activities, cult-think, and the cult's denigration of dissenters - including miragey's own mother and older brothers.

In fact, miragey's own brother Satpal [aka Bal Bhagwan ji] has stated:
'History tells us that great massacres have taken place under the name of holy crusades, and that the great churches have not remained as churches but have become political tools for the exercise of power and wealth. To sum up, there is no evil which has not befallen us in the name of religion. Jesus, Our Master, gave us the commandment to 'love our neighbors as we love ourselves.' ... How would Jesus feel today, to see his children piling up the same wealth which he told them to distribute to the poor?' [source: Who is Guru Maharaj ji? Divine Light Mission/Bantam Books]
* * *
As from a blazing fire sparks of like substance fly forth a thousandfold, so from the Imperishable, beings manifold are produced, and return thither also. -- The Upanishads

Peace and lentils,

da lil' swami

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 20:30:19 (EDT)
From: QUESTION
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Are 'they' well payed by RAWAT lawyers?
Message:
they don't 'talk' like premies.
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 21:08:41 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: QUESTION
Subject: Yes they do
Message:
You perhaps haven't been around the premies of the 21st century. Theya are not the 'peace and love' group I once knew. Or at least you haven't been within the hate circles within the Maharaji cult.
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 20:28:45 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Why is Maharaji such a victim?
Message:
Why is it that Maharaji is in such need of defense from his devotees, when Maharaji is the following, according to the song, ARTI, that these same devotees sang to Maharaji in person, and which is still played instrumentally at events at which Maharaji speaks?

Oh my Guru Maharaji,
you are all powerfull,
there is nothing in this world you cannot do,
you can do everything,
kindly save me,
kindly protect me,
and thank you my Lord for everything.

Maybe it's because they believe this, in the same song:

Guru Maharaj Ji, my life is within You
From You I was born and to You now I go
Forever I'm Yours, my longing is endless
This heart of mine aches to be one with You
Forever I'm Yours, my longing is endless
This heart of mine aches to be one with you

Is this what we are dealing with? It is, isn't it?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:07:23 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Because he is delusional...
Message:
Hi Joe,

I've been very busy but trying to keep up with everything here. I've been looking at some old materials I have and found this prayer--it sounds like the oath I took at my k session, by I know there were parts about ''never revealing k to anyone'' so...here it is...on second thought, it might have been a prayer in the k session prior to actually receiving the techniques....anyone know?

'Oh My Guru Maharaj Ji,
I dedicate my life to you.
I am weak and ignorant
and filled withthe impurities
of this world.
Oh My Guru Maharaj Ji,
please take my mind
and purge me of the impurities
I posess.
Reveal to me the Knowledge
of all Knowledges.
Strengthen me, uplift me
and reveal the Kingdom of Heaven
within inside of me.
Bring me from hate to love,
darkness to light,
death to immortality.
I will obey you implicitly
and keep in constant contact
with you through my devotional
love, satsang, service, and meditation.
Thank you for everything.
Pranam.

Quite telling, isn't it?

It's from a book a premie gave me a long time ago when I was in Gainesville. She made the book and filled it with quotes of Maharaji and Kabir, etc., etc. She gave it to me when I left the ashram there. (LOL)

It's sad that Sir Dave complied with CACs outrageous demands, however, the paranoia in the cult has risen to great heights and fanatics will resort to anything for their perceived LORD. Maharaji is a very sick person. Of course I don't feel one iota of pity for him, but he does resemble my own father's behavior in many ways, so I have an understanding of his MO, i.e., can never be blamed, bad temper, alcoholic, abusive, to name a few.

With his loss of so many premies($$) and the fact that he cannot deny he is a public figure, Maharaji and his team/EV are resorting to the type of tactics which show it is truly a cult. They have even emulated Scientology tactics. How ironic.

Notice how many times the premie trolls come here and use the word hate to describe each of us. The premie view of the world is so distorted that I believe the recent CACA site, while kind of scary, (definitely hateful), and illegal, is a good sign that things are crumbling in the 'world of M.'

It is a cult, after all. I'm curious why/how the particular individual ex-premies were chosen for the CAC site. Why not any women?

Anyway, I'm getting so tired of Maharaji's teflon existence. One day something is going to stick to him that he can't peel off. He, IMO, is a truly evil individual.

Until that day....I'll be here as much as I can.

Love,
Cynthia, not hateful at all (just very pissed off)

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:55:33 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Re: Because he is delusional...
Message:
Hi Joe,

I've been very busy but trying to keep up with everything here. I've been looking at some old materials I have and found this prayer--it sounds like the oath I took at my k session, by I know there were parts about ''never revealing k to anyone'' so...here it is...on second thought, it might have been a prayer in the k session prior to actually receiving the techniques....anyone know?

'Oh My Guru Maharaj Ji,
I dedicate my life to you.
I am weak and ignorant
and filled withthe impurities
of this world.
Oh My Guru Maharaj Ji,
please take my mind
and purge me of the impurities
I posess.
Reveal to me the Knowledge
of all Knowledges.
Strengthen me, uplift me
and reveal the Kingdom of Heaven
within inside of me.
Bring me from hate to love,
darkness to light,
death to immortality.
I will obey you implicitly
and keep in constant contact
with you through my devotional
love, satsang, service, and meditation.
Thank you for everything.
Pranam.

Quite telling, isn't it?

It's from a book a premie gave me a long time ago when I was in Gainesville. She made the book and filled it with quotes of Maharaji and Kabir, etc., etc. She gave it to me when I left the ashram there. (LOL)

It's sad that Sir Dave complied with CACs outrageous demands, however, the paranoia in the cult has risen to great heights and fanatics will resort to anything for their perceived LORD. Maharaji is a very sick person. Of course I don't feel one iota of pity for him, but he does resemble my own father's behavior in many ways, so I have an understanding of his MO, i.e., can never be blamed, bad temper, alcoholic, abusive, to name a few.

With his loss of so many premies($$) and the fact that he cannot deny he is a public figure, Maharaji and his team/EV are resorting to the type of tactics which show it is truly a cult. They have even emulated Scientology tactics. How ironic.

Notice how many times the premie trolls come here and use the word hate to describe each of us. The premie view of the world is so distorted that I believe the recent CACA site, while kind of scary, (definitely hateful), and illegal, is a good sign that things are crumbling in the 'world of M.'

It is a cult, after all. I'm curious why/how the particular individual ex-premies were chosen for the CAC site. Why not any women?

Anyway, I'm getting so tired of Maharaji's teflon existence. One day something is going to stick to him that he can't peel off. He, IMO, is a truly evil individual.

Until that day....I'll be here as much as I can.

Love,
Cynthia, not hateful at all (just very pissed off)


---

Cynthia,

It was a parchment and people kept it framed on the wall. But it was
also a stocking-stuffer on the day I got Knowledge. I think I got a
mint, a seekret decoder ring -- and some Lord of the Universe stationery, too. ;)

I think we also got his 5 commandments, something like:

* Remember the Holy Name (I think it was just those four words?)
* Do Not Put Off Until Tomorrow What You Can Do Today
* Never Delay In Attending Satsang
[I used to kid Jonn: 'digital delay in attending satsang!']
* Leave No Room For Doubt In Your Mind [or somesuch]
* Always Have Faith In God
So basically, between the two documents, we have the doctrine:

* Satsang, Service, and Meditation
* Never Doubt The Guru.

Is it beginning to sound like a ... what is the word I'm searching
for here ... how you say: 'cult'? Is that the right word?

I'm curious why/how the particular individual ex-premies were chosen for the CAC site. Why not any women?

My cheesy analysis, speaking ex cathedra:

Because it is the work of a single mind; a distorted personality. He's probably not into women as targets -- he's definitely homophobic and probably has authority issues with men. Yes, I think it is a male
doing this; he seems to have access to the types of tech info about
what he's doing that I don't usually see manifest in distorted female
personalities (and not many normal ones, either -- men will look at
the back of a clock; women, the front -- unless you happen upon a
rare bird, indeed!)

Also, the men seem more combative, whereas the women, when angry,
seem more scathing but less injurious. Women hurt you with their
disapproval; men hurt you with a club. It's a gender difference.

My opinions only!

a0aji, ACoA extraordinairre

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 20:50:15 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Endless heartache
Message:
The first part, if I'm not mistaken, is the oath or pledge one took when receiving K and then became a regular prayer for the more devout. The second part is from Twameva portion of Arti. To long to be one with M would certainly cause heartache and also make certain unstable types want to identify with M. Similar to a pathetic teenager wearing a rock star's clothing style in order to be like that person. But this goes way deeper than that. I think you've hit on something very important Joe.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 04:07:35 (EDT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: One with Maharaji
Message:
If one actually did manage to 'become one' with Maharaji, would you then have access to his bank accounts?

Hmmm, might be worth a try!

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:50:58 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Hi Joy...you made me laugh
Message:
Hope you are doing well.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:24:02 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: LOL!
Message:
Good one!
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 04:39:28 (EDT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Re: One with Maharaji
Message:
K works (if you do it with enough expectation) in so far as it can make you feel high. I'm now inclined to think in terms of that study that shows that if you concentrate on the upper portion of the brain you start to feel that you are one with everyone. You transcend the mind, ego and the barriers that we erect to function. Booze and drugs can do this too.

Add some heavy Hindu guru juju to this and it can feel that you are one with Rev Rawat. I've felt that myself. Of course it is all in the imagination but, when you're elated, it can seem real. Thank god I never really could believe the Maharajism religion.

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:27:27 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: People aren't ONE with anything
Message:
More cult speak. I'm on that today!

People aren't ONE with anything. They are One -- the Individual. D'Oh!

'One' is cult-speak. Don't need it.

neo == one from The Matrix -- messianic symbology. I've got me rid of it!

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 01:10:44 (EDT)
From: BTDT
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Re: Endless heartache
Message:
Never Smile at a Crocodile!
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:29:38 (EDT)
From: pan ji
Email: a0aji@ji.ma.I.wanna.go.home.org
To: BTDT
Subject: Re: Endless heartache
Message:
Never Smile at a Crocodile!


---

Sounds like something Hook would say.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 20:20:07 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: have anybody e-mail RAWAT the latest jewel?
Message:
Did anybody?
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 19:47:49 (EDT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: All
Subject: EV trying to close it IS so
Message:
I got this e-mail from Yahoo this morning,

Date:
Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:15:17 -0700
From:
'Yahoo! GeoCities Abuse'
To:
salam_au@iprimus.com.au
Subject:
http://us.geocities.com/it_is_soau
Dear Community Member, Please be aware that Yahoo! GeoCities maintains strict policies
regarding
homepage content and specifically requests that our members respect the
privacy of other individuals. Please respect any requests regarding
usage of another's private information, name or images. We encourage you to review the Yahoo! GeoCities Terms of Service at:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/geoterms.html Thank you, Yahoo! GeoCities Team
http://geocities.yahoo.com

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 20:44:33 (EDT)
From: ninkyzin
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Re: EV trying to close it IS so
Message:
your full of a lot of stinkin thinkin as all 12 steppers would undoubtedly let you know. R u into world peace or world war? I'm sorry you feel so bad. It's not easy to get rid of hate and resentments and anger. But until we do we are all fucked and fucking up a lot of other people along the way. Walk. Live. Be free.
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 02:52:25 (EDT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: ninkyzin
Subject: Re: EV trying to close it IS so
Message:
It is nice to see that there are people who care about human relations like you, and tthank you very much for your nice sentement.

The question is, and as you know, these pictures are in the public domain and you can find hundreds of thers for free on the net, there are no copyright issues on them. I have also asked the previous web master [Brian] of ex-premie site if it was OK to use these phoros and he gave me the approval to do so.

Now I come to the question. Can you please explain to me and to anyone that is reading here what it is that I have said wrong on my site. Isn't true that the krishna custome depicts maharaji as krishna, he has said that. Did not Maharaji say that he was god? Don't premies kiss his feet as a matter of gratitude and worship?

Where is the defamation there? Where have I lied or stepped over the line? Know if you or any premie can tell me where the error is I will be happy to remove the pictures off and apologise which I have done in the past. If you were following the argument about who wanted to have his name listed or not, I have done just that.

I have not written back to Yahoo yet and I don't think that Yahoo gives a monkey's uncle who Maharaji is or what cyberbullshit are doing.

I don't understand what is pissing you off. To my it IS so is 'my site only'. It reflects my personal opinion of what is going on between myself and how am I progressing with my understanding regarding Maharaji. As such there is not anything on the site that I have written that says premies are a bunch of sleeze bastered that screw each other neither I have defamed anyone. And if I did please point it out to me so I can correct it.

maybe you can investigate the following issue for your own understanding, where and when has Elan Vital communicated like civilized people do with any ex. Have they asked anyone at anytime politly to do something. When was the last time something was explained to the public?

I don't know how many time have people sincerly asked EV to explain something but never go an answer. Am your normal run of the mill everyday Joe Bllow, you can talk to me if you want. But when you imply threats against me as is being done on cyberbullshit or send police to my house am really not a nice guy to step on.

But then the truth is there for anyone to see, nothing that EV does will touch me or move me one inch. If you people want to be civilized then behave as such and begin to answer some questions, otherwise remian in the dark and keep us ignorant and things will just stay the way they are.

Regards,

Salam

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 04:44:07 (EDT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Nicely said, Salam
Message:
I'm very proud of you and the way you have taken this. Brave. You have written some great stuff since CACA. It has even fixed your typos.
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 20:56:17 (EDT)
From: Walk
Email: None
To: ninkyzin
Subject: we did
Message:
now is time FOR RAWAT TO WALK TO HELL, WHERE HE BELONGS.

You don't think his smile is angelic, do you?

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 09:13:39 (EDT)
From: ninkyzin
Email: None
To: Walk
Subject: Re: we did
Message:
With all respects, I don't believe u have (walked). In twelfth monkey Cling, we consider those who have once had faith and lost it. some drift into indifference, those who have cut themselves off, those who have become prejudiced against religion, and those who are downright defiant because a higher power has failed to fulfil their demands. Can 12th Monkey Cling tell you u u may still find a faith that works?

True humility & an open mind can restore us to sanity

Have we, like a greedy child, made an impossible list for Santa Claus? Have we met a major calamity and 'god' deserted us. no.

Winding through many belief systems & pracises etc - Let Thy Will be done NOT mine.

Take it easy honey. I'm really sorry you are feeling so hurt and angry and full of hatred. This is the stuff sickness and cancer is made of. We must heal ourselves from this and move on.

Why is it we all get so caught up in crime & punishment. That is not fliberation. Let no (wo)man chain you. There is no blame -- I refuse to bring up my children with victim mentality. Victim/perpetrator--is it not the same?. Walk the walk, don't just talk the talk -- it works

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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 11:22:09 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: ninkyzin
Subject: In English, perhaps?
Message:
Did you just put your post through a new age scrambler or something? 12 Monkey Cling, my ass!
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Date: Thurs, Aug 23, 2001 at 15:49:10 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: In English, perhaps?
Message:
Did you just put your post through a new age scrambler or something? 12 Monkey Cling, my ass!


---

There's a powder for that, Jim.

;)

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 19:58:49 (EDT)
From: Rawat is no private person
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: and ? NT
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 19:54:45 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: That's not surprising
Message:
Salam,

Have you contacted them yet? You need to let them know who it is you're criticizing and ridiculing. Maharaji is most definitely a public figure and as such is subject to much more vigorous 'attention' than you or I are, for example.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 19:54:38 (EDT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Ask them who complained
Message:
and send them the urls for Glasser's site and CACA telling them that you think these cultists are complaining because you are criticising them for publicizing PRIVATE info about ex-cult members.
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 21:43:24 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: you got it right. r.e. publishing stuff:
Message:
[Note: the following is Not legal counsel, but standard international media publishing advice]

1. miragey is most definitely a public figure and NOT a private citizen -- he has knowingly and willingly thrust himself onto the world stage as a public figure and religious leader for 30+ years. He even has his own public relations officials and a press page on the elan vital website. Except for verifiable malicious slander [falsehood] and libel, you can publish whatever you want about him - provided it is true, or documented, or testified as such by someone, or alleged by named sources to be true. He is a 'public figure', Not a 'private citizen.'

2. in accordance with international copyright laws/treaties, if there is an image which is a copyrighted photo of him [and the complainant can present proof that [s]he or EV actually OWN the rights to the photo (and Not the photographer who took it)], then remove it from your site, with a polite apology stating that you were not aware of the fact. They need to either: a) verify that the photographer was an 'employee' by presenting a government tax receipt [in the US, a W-2 or W-4 'employee' IRS form], and/or b) waived her/his authorship rights by signing a document stating that the photo was a 'work for hire', or c) a first-person statement from the photographer that [s]he does not want you to use the photo, or d) proof that miragey or EVI have already registered a copyright to any photo in question and have not in fact usurped the rights of a premie/ex-premie/deceased photographer. Any photographer who was Not a registered DLM/EVI govt. registered 'employee' at the time retains the rights to any photo [s]he took. Even if EV shows a copyright for a book or magazine, it does Not mean they own a photo displayed therein. They also have to have a signed 'photo release' document just to use a photo, too. But even a photo release does NOT give them any ownership or exclusive use of that photo. Unless legally transferred to them, the photographer retains original authorship and full rights to any photo. [If EV or any org agent argues otherwise, they're not telling the truth, or are simply not informed about binding copyright laws/treaties.]

btw, I have my own copyrighted photos I took of him. you want an ol' Lord of the Universe cropped photo for limited use? [if so, email me] Or, you got any photos you took yerself?

Pia is deceased, and she was a public figure. Her published site is public, too. You may publish what is termed 'fair use' text excerpts from her site [but not design, or any text without attribution (aka source)]. In fact, your page regarding her is very polite and tasteful, including my own tribute to her [which I don't mind your using at all].

Any text information contained on Charles Glasser's [or his firm's] published website is public information. You are entitled to 'fair use' extractions with attribution. Also, a person/firm can not copyright an idea, word or phrase, except as a registered trademark/logo.

3. I don't think Combat would complain.

4. find out from yer ISP who complained. if it is 'anonymous', then ignore it. they have to provide the actual name of a complainant for the complaint to be legit. Suggest you Please post the complainant's name on this forum for further investigation.

Good luck!

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 21:57:55 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: such
Subject: correction: text 'with attribution'
Message:
[nt]
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 19:36:12 (EDT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: All
Subject: MAMA does not like CACA
Message:
Just having a quick late lunch and couldn't resist making a quick post.

Now if I were as spiteful, vindictive and irresponsible as CACA, I would put up this website: MAMA - Manmuts Against Maharaji Associates.


I know the names, addresses and phone numbers of four premies who post anonymously. I also know some private details of two of them such as their drug use, sexual preferences and eccentric belief systems such as UFOs, gurus, reincarnation, footkissing etc.


Now, if I am regarded as fair game by CACA, because they feel that I am an official spokesperson for EPO (which I am not - EPO is a website not a group of expremies) then I should be able to regard these premies as official spokemen for EV. After all EV does not have any members but only volunteers and these premies have volunteered to stalk, harass and insult us anonymously.


The only people that I have ever criticised on the net have been either Rawat, his wife (who also benefitted from my donations while I languished in poverty because of my devotion) and official EV spokesmen and operatives. To me these people are fair game as they have attached their names officially to Rawat's.


However the anonymous premies who have stalked, harassed and insulted me online are not. I regard them as nuisances not EV officials eventhough in one case one of them has acted in that capacity until recently. But in no way can they be construed as anything but private citizens exercising their right to free speech albeit anonymously. They are not fair game and I have not outed them or published their personal details.


But this is exactly what CACA has done. It has attacked private citizens exercising their rights to free speech. If I am fair game why should I hesitate to publish what I know about the premies who post online? Because I do not believe that they are responsible for any of the crimes that Rawat has committed and I would not stoop to CACA's level just out of spite or mean-spiritedness or irresponsible childishness.


No, I won't publish MAMA. I grew up a long time ago and don't need MAMAs or Dads or Masters or anyone else to go crying to. So, CACA authors, please grow up or else take the consequences of your actions which is that you will be seen as nasty, spiteful, childish cry-babies and twisted, irrational members of a nasty cult.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 21:52:09 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Incidentally, r.e. yer photo
Message:
any photo that was posted by ex-premies of themselves and taken by their families, or where they own the negatives to that photo, is their property.

It is an international copyright violation to republish a photo without permission, unless that photo is public domain. i.e. the owner or photographer has specifically relinquished rights to the photo, or has disseminated the photo freely to numerous sources for republishing. If it was only your intention that your photo be published on the ex-premie forum [and not other sites] and for posters personal use only, then caca.hate is in patent violation of yer legal rights. If they don't remove yer photo, then you can sue them or force their ISP to shut them down.

Peas and lentil dhal curry,

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 22:20:16 (EDT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Lousy pic but I'm glad
Message:
they used it. I wish they would put the latest pic of M next to it. And then ask which man would you buy a used car from.
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 21:11:52 (EDT)
From: susiji
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Re: MAMA does not like CACA
Message:
We can do the same: We'll start saving all the crap that premies post or have posted and make a site to exposse their SUBLIME LOVING ATTITUDE.

S

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:15:04 (EDT)
From: afraid of rawat
Email: None
To: All
Subject: they sound so HATEFUL
Message:
evil dude/darlings.

So FUCKING EVIL!

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:48:20 (EDT)
From: Timmi
Email: timmi56@yahoo.com
To: All
Subject: such evil......
Message:
Just wanted to send all the ex-premies and especially those being so persecuted by EV a message of love and support. I don't understand why this is going on. This is not the 'message' a lot of people think rawat is giving. I hope their ears and eyes are opened soon. This is nothing but evil incarnate and done merely to protect his/their ugly hides. Maybe I wasn't so paranoid a week or so ago when I asked if the machine could be messing with my e-mail account. I thought I was, but now it appears they will stoop much lower than I had thought. How despicable. I hold rawat and his minions in utter contempt. That such things can not only occur, but obviously be sanctioned and approved, is truly horrendous. My best wishes to all.
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 19:53:24 (EDT)
From: Suzanne
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: Re: such evil......
Message:
Hi everyone,

I haven't been checking in for awhile. We have been too busy enjoying our lives. I echo what Timmi said, and hope all of you continue on doing what you are doing, because it sure helped us.

Suzanne

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 19:42:31 (EDT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: Lots of love to you Timmi
Message:
and thanks for your kind thoughts. Yes, most regular premies do not know exactly how evil Rev Rawat really is. Which I find hard to believe. The latest pic of him for sale in Visions catalogue looks like a pic of some vicious mafia boss. His evil, greed and hatefulness are finally showing on his face. He can't hide that even with plastic surgery.
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:05:48 (EDT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Timmi
Subject: such love!
Message:
reverse 'Evil': and LIVE

reverse duality of Massa's 'Dog': and be 1 with GOD

Peace and lentils,

da lil' swami

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:38:44 (EDT)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Oops, will try again...
Message:
Last message below didn't work, and I couldn't repy to it to correct it. Here it is again: Anything Goes Too!
[ Anything Goes Too! ]
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:22:18 (EDT)
From: Chuck S.
Email: None
To: All
Subject: New forum: Anything Goes Too!
Message:
I recall how when forum V closed, all those Frankfurter Kings and Cuntesses over at Anything Goes took pity on us forum V refugees, and let us take it over for a while. Now Louella and I would like to return the favor.

The Chez Louella forum, which wasn't being used much anyway, is now the Anything Goes Too! forum. Until further notice. Who knows, if it turns out to be fun, I'll even pay the monthly fee to have the head icons available.

Exes need a place where we can talk about other things than The Goober, if we want to.

[ Anything Goes Too! ]

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:08:47 (EDT)
From: Ex
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Why not publish a list of premies ? NT
Message:
NT
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 19:42:26 (EDT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Ex
Subject: because
Message:
I have already shown the web site to few professional people includind 2 lawyer, a psychologist and acounsultant to the Northren West Region in The UK. They did not laugh, people like that don't know how too, but the opinion was and without even explaining to them what the story was is that the people in the so called shame list are being 'stalked' by 'unknowns' hiding behind the mask. There is no credibility to the site what so ever, as there is no list of names of who the writers are, what there background is and what gives then the right to make such judgment. In fact am going today to meet a communication expert lawyer to confirm this. The fact that the site is hosted in a remote location in a country where human rights and intellectual property is not well define put a red question mark on the whole affar.

The site can be classifed as a porn site and should be listed on one of the porn server.

Now do you want to be involved in an online porn site? I don't.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:37:53 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Ex
Subject: Because we stand on higher moral ground
Message:
I've never condoned outing premies or posting info about them. It serves absolutely no purpose. Most of them are unwitting accomplices to the M/EV spin cycle. They are human beings who are caught in the same charismatic cult we all were and compassion speaks louder than name calling. Do not forget who benefits when any attention is drawn away from him. M is going to flush EV at some point to take the fall for this, Jagdeo and all the other reasons the mission has failed. Then most of those premies will be Exs too.
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 22:44:29 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: I agree
Message:
I think it wuld be awful if premies were subjected to the same hate. I think it is important that this forum doesn't stoop to their level. Apparently it how has the reputation of being a 'hate club'. I think it's important to curb emotional outbursts which provide them with more ammunition.
NO MORE HATE
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:50:54 (EDT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Right on, Richard
Message:
Contrary to the spin-cycle propagated by those who would silence our voices, we are not a hate club. And there are plenty of premies that are not a hate club either. I don't want to get into divisiveness.

The truth will out, and those with venom in their bellies will be seen as the extremists that they are.

Bests, Francesca

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:46:39 (EDT)
From: Evil is a hill:
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: We stand on ours and speak about others. [nt]
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:50:48 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Evil is a hill:
Subject: Meaning??? (nt)
Message:
nut
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:53:06 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: [yt]
Message:
nut


---

I thought it was a complete thought.

::: evil is a hill; we stand on ours and speak about others. :::

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:19:11 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Ex
Subject: Re: Why not publish a list of premies ? NT
Message:
Because it's inappropriate. No Text. ;)
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:17:59 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: Ex
Subject: Dumb
Message:
What possible good could that do?
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:45:30 (EDT)
From: Ex
Email: None
To: Rick
Subject: Re: Dumb and to aoaji
Message:
of course it is dumb and appropriate and it wont happen.
But they need to realise that any bongo ex COULD do something equally as silly as they did.
We get aaaallllllll kinds roun hea.
I think they are so unrequitedly besotten with God that the dont realise what they are doing.
That CAC site is probably giving them an exillarating 'experience' for once.
My god they have had to think and plan and work as a team...in order to launch the attack on the evil foe.
They have had to use their heads- full of dust from misuse.
They forgot to think laterally re CONSEQUENSES.

The writing smaks of a high school project.

EX

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 16:19:26 (EDT)
From: what CAC says about who they are
Email: None
To: All
Subject: could this be a clue or just designed to throw off
Message:
This site was inspired by one of the worst episodes of cyber-stalking yet recorded and was established by four victims of that crime

They have posted thousands of defamatory messages about us, have called our employers, taken anonymous ads against us in the press, sent us email viruses, fabricated documents bearing our names, doctored our photographs, and threatened us of violence and even death. All this because we chose to follow these teachings

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:30:44 (EDT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: what CAC says about who they are
Subject: There is no 'they'
Message:

There is only us

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 16:19:07 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: I hate you maharaji for what you did
Message:
to me, to my immediate family who your ideas broke apart (my ex-husband is your toe sucker), to my mother, my sister, my brothers. the premies who killed themselves, to the friends I lost (who thought I was coocko for YOU), to my finances ( I want the money back of the 425 videos I bought from Visions) for what you did to my poor mind, so sick and fragil, still, manipulating me in so many ways, for lying to me, for keeping all the money you lied you needed to propagate, for being anything but a LORD or GOD as you said you were, for all the tears I cried when I realized who you really were, for all the years/time in this Earth you stold from me, and for so, so much more.....

You deserve whatever you get from now on, specially for my suicide attempts because I couldn't surrender to you, love you as you told me I should have. You have created so, so much pain with your lies. Will meet again, I assure. I will enjoy the direct questioning, soon. You are not going to hide behind yoru minions. You cannot do that. I had a contact with you, yoru words, your videos, you, your feet. YOU. You lied to me!

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 23:20:59 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Silvia
Subject: Re: I hate you maharaji for what you did
Message:
There's such a genuineness in what you have to say, and I'd like you to know that I find it quite powerful.
I don't know if it'll ever really be possible to overcome the grief I feel as result of m and his cult. But I do hope to find a way to somehow incorporate that grief into my life in such a way that I become a stronger and better person as a result.
And yes, m has to be held accountable and his accomplices as well. It's a really pathetic game they've been playing on the net, and I do look forward to their judgement day in court. A court of law and/or the court of public opinion.
It's time for the world to know a little more about Maharaji, the 'Lord' of hate, as he's really shown his true colors to be. And his gang of cybercriminals too.

Take care Silvia, and all the best,

Joey

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 23:40:29 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Re: I hate you maharaji for what you did
Message:
Thanks joey, sincerely.

I got very, very angry today looking at the whole picture starting with me, full of drems and youth and to what the cult ended up being...Yes, i am healing but nvertheless is not over and if he is not stopped, it will never be over for me. My son has a robot for a father and he didn't had him ever and the signs are begining to show and how can I not notice?

Today was an emotional day for me. A bad day. I truly, truly dislike him, with passion. What ddo premies know how it feels to be in this side?

take care. :)

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 16:08:36 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: the CAC crew cleaned up my bio
Message:
Take a look at it here.

And be sure to click on all the links!
[ Page Link ]

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 19:23:32 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Couldn't do it...
Message:
And be sure to click on all the links!


---

I followed two links and fell apart reading J-M's profile....

...must go and put myself together.

John

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:47:32 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: what's 'gamahucheing'?
Message:
guess I am So naive and unworldly.

Gerry, now your mudderstalking bio looks a lot better! like the ol' gerry we know and love. hehehehehehehehehehe

It's a beautiful day in da neighborhood, a beautiful day in da nayborehood, wouldja wouldja wouldja be my nayburr...

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:32:53 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: such
Subject: It's a lot like gamelon and bremsstrahlung [nt]
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:25:54 (EDT)
From: Rick
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: That's what you call very gErRy (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:05:32 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: the CAC crew cleaned up my bio
Message:
There was a Jesus-ify engine like that for a while.

Years ago, they were just text filters. There was one for jive
(called 'jive'!) and I think a Swedish Chef and a few others.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 16:58:49 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Mine's an improvement too
Message:
Thanks for the laugh, Gerry.
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 15:55:06 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Rawat--an arrogant TWIT
Message:
Who told me that I do not need to know the value of each breath in this life? Who told me that I do not need to understand with great clarity that as every step I take in my life, as every day comes in my life, I should not be prepared to welcome it? Who gave me this license? Nobody. Have I taken it? Yes. By the way, which way am I headed? To my darkest hour? And an hour, I suppose, is just nomenclature. It is not that you would only stay in darkness for exactly 59 minutes, 59 seconds, and that's it. No. A lifetime can be spent caught in the tangle of ideas. A lifetime can be spent without that clarity. A lifetime can be spent without that understanding, without the passion of the heart.

Rawrat's getting heavy again. This type of talk is intended to scare the bejeezuz out of the believers, I can only conclude.

If you don't have Him in your life you sink into a life of self-unaware darkness. Nice message, huh? Yes, the message remains the same. Indeed it does. More fearmongering.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 16:08:00 (EDT)
From: Silvia
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: arrogant is: Me or NOTHING TWIT
Message:
yes, you are right Gerry, nothing has changed: Only the 'package'.

Maharaji or death is still his sale speech.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 15:29:01 (EDT)
From: WMary
Email: None
To: All
Subject: what is link?
Message:
Can someone please post the link to this CAC site?
thanks
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 15:37:05 (EDT)
From: Here it is
Email: None
To: WMary
Subject: but take along a barf bag
Message:
It's 99.44% not love.
[ CACa ]
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 15:06:15 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Let's not forget the Jagdeo matter
Message:
Isn't it interesting how all this CACa has miraculously diverted attention away from the Jagdeo allegations, M's refusal to acknowledge his complicity by ignoring them, and EV's bizarre mistreatment of the alleged victims. Just a reminder to everyone on all sides of the fence that while CACa has sprung up to discredit those observering and commenting about M and EV, the Jagdeo issue, among others, has not been resolved.
[ Jagdeo allegations ]
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:23:49 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Don't Feed The Trolls, Part II
Message:
Isn't it interesting how all this CACa has miraculously diverted attention away from the Jagdeo allegations, M's refusal to acknowledge his complicity by ignoring them, and EV's bizarre mistreatment of the alleged victims. Just a reminder to everyone on all sides of the fence that while CACa has sprung up to discredit those observering and commenting about M and EV, the Jagdeo issue, among others, has not been resolved.


---

Right. Diverted attention.

Don't feed the trolls.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 16:21:06 (EDT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: maharaji protects child abuser Jagdeo
Message:
Right? Can he denied it? Is EV answering Abi's questions?
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 15:26:28 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Jagdeo/Maharaji won't be forgotten...
Message:
Hi Richard,

Actually, I'm not surprised at all at the latest.

As aOaji said below, I gave Maharaji 25 years of my life. He's got a few more coming from me--including, but not exclusively, the Jagdeo issues.

I REFUSE TO BE SILENCED. HEAR THAT EV? Maharaji? NEVER!

Love to you Richard,
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:45:30 (EDT)
From: Anonymous
Email: None
To: All
Subject: ex premie defense fund
Message:
I would be willing, as I am sure many others would, to contribute to a fund to deal with the CAC. I am very saddened by the intimidation tactics. Reading the exchange regarding Sir Dave read like extortion. This has to be illegal.
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:52:40 (EDT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: Anonymous
Subject: I second that
Message:
me too.
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:43:40 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: pdconlon@hotmail.com
To: All
Subject: CAC removes reference to other Conlon
Message:
But of course it is too late because they did already publish Patrick's home phone and address and identify him as a stalker and pervert. Only a lawyer would take seriously the fact that they had accused the wrong person. Now I wonder which lawyer is behind CAC?

Off to the saltmines guys and try not to have too much fun while I'm gone. Thanks for you second letter, Jim. Only two more weeks of 14 hour days slaving over my porno site and then I'll be able to devote more time to cyberstalking or perhaps I should not make jokes lest my words get twisted again.

I completely understand Dave's decision and I'm very sorry that Way was threatened by hinting that his work colleagues would be informed. Of course I am also concerned about Jondon and hope that someone has emailed him since we have not yet heard from him.

I do not intend to take legal action as I am a firm believer in giving people enough rope to hang themselves and I think they already have enough rope to hang themselves as well as Rawat.

My premie friends are horrified and it won't be long before the only devotees Rawat has left are the lunatic fanatics. CAC has done a good job of showing that it is a cult. Four premies on LG are saying as much.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 15:52:09 (EDT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: xxxxx(durgaji)
Message:
But Pat what's up with the xxxxx(marolyn/Durgaji)stuff? Apart from the language-I don't even think you used the pornolizer!!- There is a story behind this, I never heard of in the 5 months visiting the forums. Please elaborate....
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 16:57:28 (EDT)
From: Pat:C)
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: Re: xxxxx(durgaji)
Message:
That quote was from a post that I made when we were discussing the letter that she sent to someone a long time ago. Maybe she didn't like being compared with Tammy Faye or Imelda (after all they were not married to You Know Who) and asked her friend (the author of CAC) to get me in trouble.
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:45:22 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Pat:C)
Subject: Patty Hearst-ga Ji
Message:
It's not every woman who gets married while a cult films the ceremony.
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:57:00 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: My second letter to ISP's re CAC
Message:
Dear sir:

Below is a copy of an email I sent you regarding internet harrassment stemming, ironically, from a website entitled 'Citizens Against Cyberstalking.'

Here are some recent developments:

1) The site has added two more names to its list of 'Worst Case Cyberstalkers'. One, a fellow by the name of Archie Leach, has no apparent affiliation with the Maharaji cult and seems to be another 'ringer'. The other, William E. Williams, is indeed an ex-cult member who, as you can see, has had his privacy violated most illegally. Mr. Williams, in fact, does not post on the ex-cult forums under his own name but chose anonymity as is his right. The cult members responsible for CAC, however, have published all his personal detail in a blatant attempt to embarrass and ruin his life, professionally as well as personally. This is an indisputably serious criminal act.

Here is how an anonymous cult member, posting from Australia under a variety of aliases and believed to be one of the parties behind CAC gloated about the act in a post on the ex-premie forum:

Mr. Joe,

You call CAC's treatment of William E Williams (a.k.a. Way) an atrocity?

Well sir, there is no action without reaction. This William is using work time and a computer at work to spill his perversity, hatred and bigotry. These type of people need to know that there is something called accountability: You do something in life and you pay the consecuences or reap the benefits.

For Way to many years (pun not intended), these people have chosen a loveless path: one full of hatred and obsession. Well, now is time to reap these consequences.

You want to abuse others... OK... but make sure you understand the consequences.

It will be no too long before his boss at the Kansas University finds out what jewel this William is....

So my friends...the time of abusing others without consequences, hiding behid a facade of righteousness is over. If you want to take a stance in life, fine. Just be ready.

So.., free abuse is over. Now is pay time.

Wait until the time in which you type the name of any the people featured on CAC and you get to that site.... You will need to do a lot of explaining.... Something like:

'I spend 4 hours a day abusing a public figure that I love to hate ferociously. I was a student of that person many years ago and now spend every waking hour engaged in brutal, obscene and perverted abuse... That is why they put me on that website. I am sure you will understand... So how about that job offer... (defending that case, my son inviting yours for a sleep over, going for that date/ Replace as necessary)'

A friendly suggestion: do whatever is needed NOT to be on that list.

Sincerely,

Victoria Clemens

Mr. Williams' livelihood is hence jeapordized because he dared to question his former cult leader. And as 'Victoria Clemens' threatens, more criminal acts are on their way.

2) David Stirling, the ex-premie I mentioned yesterday who agreed to remove any of his anti-cult sites from the web on account of the threatening intimidation exacted on him by CAC (publishing his young daughter's picture along with his home address as part of his own scurrilous and libelous CAC entry) has indeed acquiesced to the cult pressure. Mr. Stirling has struck his pages in exchange for which CAC has removed his entry.

3) On closer examination it appears that even some of the quotes attributed to the ex-premie 'cyberstalkers' are fabricated. In the circumstances, we demand, at minimum, source proof and references.

As you can see, this is an extremely volatile situation and behooves you to act prompty and effectively. This cult cannot be allowed to silence dissenters in this fashion. I would hope that you would support our efforts to withstand this vicious assault for shared ethical concerns as well as issues of legal responsibility.

Thanks once again for your immediate attention to this urgent problem.

Sincerely,

Jim Heller


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-- Original Message
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From: Jim Heller
To: ned@xenon.net
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 4:30 PM
Subject: complaint re libelous and harrassing website

Dear sir:

I'm writing to complaing about a website hosted, I believe, on oyur server or a server that is somehow part of your internet domain. The site is called 'Citizens Against Cyberstalking' ('CAC') . The URL is:

http://www.stopcyberstalkers.org

My name is Jim Heller and I am listed on the site as a 'cyberstalker'. I can advise you that I strongly believe that the contents of the page concerning myself (as well as others, which I'll address below) are grossly inaccurate and clearly defamatory. I insist, therefore, that you do somethig immediately, in particular, removing all references to me (and others as I'll explain) and providing me with the names, addresses and other contact information of the people responsible for this website so that I may pursue further action as necessary.

By way of background, I am a criminal lawyer in Victoria, British Columbia. I am also a former member of a religious cult, Elan Vital. Elan Vital, once Divine Light Mission, consists of followers of the hindu spiritual guru, Maharaji (earlier known as Guru Maharaj Ji). Maharaji once claimed to be the 'Lord of the Universe'. As such, he demanded an extremely high level of sacrifice and dedication in his followers. For example, I spent eight years living in his monastic order on the premise that he was indeed who he claimed to be. I was able to extricate myself eventually but the psychological, physical and financial costs I suffered were significant.

Others, unfortuantely, were less fortunate. For one thing, many spent even longer -- decades, in some cases -- in the cult. Worse, others still suffered real psychological breakdowns. There were a number of suicides and it now comes to light that there was rampant sexual abuse that was, at minimum, covered up by the cult and Maharaji. Meanwhile, it turns out, Maharaji himself just got richer and richer. Sad to say but not an untypical history of a cult leader charlatan.

In any event, there is now a sizeable 'ex-premie' (i.e. ex-follower) on-line presence, dedicated to telling the truth about the cult and its leader and confronting him, challenging him, essentially, with the truth of his depraved and hypocritical history and lifestyle. The main site for this on-line community is:

http://www.ex-premie.org/

It's taken a lot of work by a lot of dedicated people to begin to piece together the real picture. It turns out, as often happens in these situations, that Maharaji lead and continues to lead a secret life fully at odds with his public persona. This has been one of the themes the ex-premies have explored an publicized in hopes of pressuring him to stand accountable for how he exploited us all in various ways over the years. To date, however, Maharaji has, most cowardly, stonewalled his critics and left it to others to attempt to defend him. As you might expect, his cult members have tried to do so by attacking us, the former followers. The latest, and most egregious, chapter in their campaign is the CAC site.

CAC has compiled a list of 'The Worst Alleged Cyberstalkers'. Interestingly, eight of the eleven names mentioned are all ex-premies. The other three appear to be 'ringers', if you will, people who may indeed have raised some legitimate concern in some parts regarding possibly stalking activities but who seem to have made the list so as to create a bit of a smokescreen regarding the real targets of this site, the ex-premie community.

For myself, I can tell you in no uncertain terms that the material there about me is fully actionable. First, to characterize me as a 'stalker' of any kind is libelous. Maharaji is indeed a public figure. 28 years ago he hosted a grandiose event at the Houston Astrodome which he proclaimed the 'Most Significant Event in the History of Mankind' and to which he invited almost every major press organ in the western world. Indeed, he announced that he was in fact inaugurating a 'Thousand Years of Peace' for the world at that time, although, in truth, his 'mission' began to fall apart soon thereafter and is now a faint, miserable shell of its former, albeit fraudulent, self. My point, though, is that Maharaji is indeed a public figure who continues to tour the globe demanding unquestioning fealty from his followers (not to mention money). As such, he is subject to fair, vigorous criticism and commentary. If you'll examine the ex-premie site, you'll see that that is exactly the thrust and focus of its materials. My own contributions to the site and the discussions therein all fall in this category.

Much that is written about me on the CAC, however, violates my privacy and defames me in my professional capacity as a lawyer. There are several quotes attributed to me which, in the first place, hardly constitue 'stalking' by any stretch of the imagination and which, besides, are false and malicious. Even quotes of mine which may, in fact, be true are so out of context as to be laughable. Indeed, the site is, in some respects, laughable. The problem, however, is that I'm not just laughing.

For example, the site impugns my integrity and my professional ethics with respect to a recent trial I conducted. I can assure you that the offensive commentary there, implying that I somehow condoned or minimized some pretty ugly facts, is blatant libel. If you don't believe me, ask your lawyers. There's a famous case in Canada, in fact, in which the current leader of the federal opposition party made similar remarks about an opponent (who was also a criminal lawyer) and was forced to settle a defamation suit for hundreds of thousands of dollars. In my view, this attempt at character assassination, particularly in the context of branding me as a 'cyberstalker' will not be seen favourably by any court of law.

The site alleges a number of other things about me which are sheer fabrications or so far out of context. I won't explain them all at this point because, in my view, the entire reference to me is seriously offensive and must be removed. There is no place for some partial correction.

Then there are the others. I can assure you that, like in my case, the other ex-premies cited as 'cyberstalkers' are first, nothing of the kind and, second, egregiously misrepresented by the cult members responsifle for this mischief. Specifically, Salam Al-Ahmar, Michael Dettmers, Kevin Ketzner, Patrick Conlon, David Simpkiss, Jean-Michel Kahn and Gerry Lyng, are not the crazy, deranged, dangerous drug-addicts and worse described by the anonymous hosts of this ugly site. Hardly.

To make mattes worse, as I mentioned above, the site is guilty of some serious privacy invasions. Perhaps the most despicable is the publishing of home addresses, email addresses and phone numbers of these private individuals. David Simpkiss, in particular, I know is outraged by the posting of not just his own picture but that of his young daughter. Mr. Simpkiss is so concerned about this blatant and unlawful intimidation that he has desparately, in my opinion, offered to cancel the various web sites he hosts concerning Maharaji if only the CAC people would remove him (and his daughter's picture) from their site. Indeed, the CAC crew, always unnamed, have responded to his coerced offer as follows:

Mr. Simpkiss:

We at CAC have received your offer.

If you take the steps that you have outlined in your message and cease your cyberstalking activities, including:
- shutting down The Truth About Maharaji, Lord Maharaji's Domain AND
- shutting down all the public forums that you own at hotboard.com
- not transfering the websites and forums to any others
we will immediately remove from our web site your entire profile, the photo, and the metatags.

The public forums under your control are a gathering point for people to misuse the internet and to invade people's rights. If these people wish to assume the responsibility of doing so, they should do so from their own accord, not at your expense.

Send us an email indicating your complaince before noon, GMT, August 23 and we will immediately remove from our web site your entire profile, the photo, and the metatags.

Otherwise CAC activities will intensify.

CAC

If you haven't seen it before, trust me, this is classic cult intimidation. Because the cult can't dispute the information Mr. Simpkiss and others have publicized about them, they eventually turn to blackmail. If, in fact, the cult had any fair grievance with any of the materials published by me or any of the other alleged 'cyberstalkers' would not the best recourse have been to contact our own ISP's or even take legal action? Certainly it would. However, since the cult has no real argument and is simply trying to desparately conceal the truth from the public and its membership, it resorts to such vile, cowardly acts as hosting a website such as CAC.

In summary, then, I am asking that you deal with this problem with immediate dispatch. I'm sure that if you review the materials, you'll see how outlandish the CAC materials are, at least with respect to the ex-premies subject to this blatant attempt at character assassination.

I look forward to your prompt reply and advise you further that I will forward copies of this letter to relevant authorities as I see necessary.

Sincerely,

Jim Heller

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 19:44:55 (EDT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: My second letter to ISP's re CAC
Message:
Great work Jim. give to them, they asked for it.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:51:47 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Interesting. [nt]
Message:
nt
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 15:22:42 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Oops! Mistake and correction
Message:
I just emailed the recipients and explained that I met David Simpkiss, not Stirling.

Sorry for the confusion.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:08:03 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Thanks, Jim
Message:
Thanks, Jim, for your efforts.

I will send EV a short email requesting that EV and Mr. Rawat shut down the CAC site, or at least to remove my personal information. If they do not do so, then it will in time be clear that they are supporting CAC.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:12:14 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Excellent idea
Message:
Do it right away. The site is being touted as revenge for criticism of Maharaji and EV. It appears that they are at least tacitly involved in it or at least support the CAC site. If they don't want to get stuck with the legal ramifications, they had better make a public statement that they have told the CAC site to shut down.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:27:38 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: My email to EV regarding CAC
Message:
Here is the email I just sent to EV:

Dear EV public relations:

My name and personal informaton about my job, including my boss's email, have been posted by premies on a site called Citizens Against Cyberstalking. I am requesting that Mr. Rawat and EV contact the premies running this site and instruct them to shut down the site, or at least to remove my personal information.

Thank you,

William E. Williams
wwilliam@kumc.edu

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:32:51 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: All
Subject: Updated House of Maharaji Drek links
Message:
them motherfuckers!

I've updated my links to this Forum at House of Maharaji Drek. Hopefully, the links are updated at Ex-Premie.org as well. And one day I'll actually spend some time adding new material, but...

Neither blackmail nor legal threats will bring down the House of Maharaji Drek.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:16:57 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Did anyone save Dave's CAC page?
Message:
It's gone. If anyone kept it would you please email me a copy?

Thanks,

jamesheller@home.com

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 18:13:18 (EDT)
From: here
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Did anyone save Dave's CAC page?
Message:
Posted: Tues, Aug 21, 2001 at 16:24:33 (EDT)
Original: NA
Posted by: Sir Dave Recipient: All
Email Address: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
Browser Type: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt)
Message Count: 63 visits (15 today, 63 this week, 63 this month, 63 this year)

Subject: CAC's response to my email & the end
Message:

CAC has responded to my email where I have asked them to remove my page from their site with the pic of my daughter and our street address and phone number. This is their response:

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From : kontchalovski@johndoes.org

To : sirdavid12@hotmail.com

Date : Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:55:29 GMT

Mr. Simpkiss:

We at CAC have received your offer.

If you take the steps that you have outlined in your message and cease your cyberstalking activities, including:
- shutting down The Truth About Maharaji, Lord Maharaji's Domain AND
- shutting down all the public forums that you own at hotboard.com
- not transfering the websites and forums to any others
we will immediately remove from our web site your entire profile, the photo, and the metatags.

The public forums under your control are a gathering point for people to misuse the internet and to invade people's rights. If these people wish to assume the responsibility of doing so, they should do so from their own accord, not at your expense.

Send us an email indicating your complaince before noon, GMT, August 23 and we will immediately remove from our web site your entire profile, the photo, and the metatags.

Otherwise CAC activities will intensify.

CAC

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I will be complying with all of their wishes. Unless you yourself have been blackmailed with your own children (I have three) put at some unknown risk, you cannot understand why I have done this.

Forum 6 will have to close and be deleted tomorrow. The Anything Goes Forum will also be deleted tomorrow. All of my websites will be deleted tonight. I cannot and will never put any of my children at the remotest risk because of Maharaji's cult.

My first duty is to my children. I am sorry for all the inconvenience caused.

David Simpkiss.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 17:55:26 (EDT)
From: silvia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: no?
Message:
[nt]
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 12:59:32 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: kevjo@mindspring.com
To: All
Subject: Marianne, Jim and JHB
Message:
Please email me asap. Thanks.
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:09:55 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Marianne, Jim and JHB
Message:
I just did at the 'JxxxerX...' address. Is that current? Well, we'll see.

If not, email me

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:02:01 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: kevjo@mindspring.com
To: Jim
Subject: Jim didn't come through
Message:
I just need your email address, as the one I have doesn't work. You can use the address above.
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:12:25 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Jim didn't come through
Message:
jamesheller@home.com
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:21:25 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Thanks 2 -emails coming
Message:
Let me know if you don't get them.
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:41:22 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'm around
Message:
You know how to reach me.
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:25:20 (EDT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Marianne
Subject: don't forget about me - I'm next on the hit list
Message:
better add me too
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 12:31:05 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: All
Subject: The latest CAC Atrocity
Message:
I just saw that Way has been added to the names on CAC. I read the entry and it made me physically ill. Whoever put that site together is one very sick premie/pwk.

I feel even more strongly that the EPO website sould contain a direct link to the CAC website, along with a commentary of the lies thereon, and the obvious, and laughable if they weren't so sick, attempts to hurt people for no other reason than the sadistic pleasure of the sick premie who set that website up.

I would be happy to help write such a commentary.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:54:38 (EDT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: r.e. Victoria's Secret mirror:
Message:
VC:

'the time of abusing others without consequences, hiding behid a facade of righteousness is over.'

dat's exactly da karma of da abusive miragey dysfunctionality codependent cult!

ya gotta look in yer own mirror, Victoria -- without cult blinders. first, undo da cult lobotomy; reconnect da brain with the heart. take a step back from cult involvement for a few months or a year or two -- hang out with some non-premies, then look again at the maha cult manipulations, mind-control, deceitful psychological inculcation techniques directed at aspirants, the money laundering of donations, the witnessed abuses committed by miragey and his top aides against innocent human beings, etc.

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 12:57:49 (EDT)
From: Victoria Clemens
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Action >
Message:
Mr. Joe,

You call CAC's treatment of William E Williams (a.k.a. Way) an atrocity?

Well sir, there is no action without reaction. This William is using work time and a computer at work to spill his perversity, hatred and bigotry. These type of people need to know that there is something called accountability: You do something in life and you pay the consecuences or reap the benefits.

For Way to many years (pun not intended), these people have chosen a loveless path: one full of hatred and obsession. Well, now is time to reap these consequences.

You want to abuse others... OK... but make sure you understand the consequences.

It will be no too long before his boss at the Kansas University finds out what jewel this William is....

So my friends...the time of abusing others without consequences, hiding behid a facade of righteousness is over. If you want to take a stance in life, fine. Just be ready.

So.., free abuse is over. Now is pay time.

Sincerely,

Victoria Clemens
[ Way Over ]

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 15:53:34 (EDT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Victoria Clemens
Subject: Abusing Others Without Consequences...
Message:
To: Victoria Clemens
Fr: Cynthia J. Gracie

Can you tell me why Jagdeo has abused again and again without consequences?

Can you tell me why Maharaji has condoned this abuse without taking any viable action to remedy this heinous abuse against children?

Now comes CAC, a website targeting people who are using free speech on the internet.

It's interesting to me, Victoria, that you, Maharaji and Elan Vital chose and continue to choose to hide behind innocent children. First the victims of Jagdeo, now the innocent daughter of a website host, Sir Dave.

You have no shame. The worst of the worst people hide behind children when push comes to shove. Now, CAC, EV, and Maharaji, the biggest coward, have made the choice to place a photo of a child on your CAC website.

You have no shame. You are beneath speaking to, writing to and you will encounter many problems in your life as a result of this so-called ''no more abuse with out reaction'' campaign that's been launched against ex-premies. That is not a threat. It's a promise.

I will never stop speaking out against the insidious cult you choose to be in. I will never stop speaking out about Jagdeo's crimes.

Have you had a psychiatric evaluation lately? You need one, you fucking asshole.

Cynthia J. Gracie

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:02:35 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Victoria Clemens
Subject: My Dear Victoria:
Message:
Dear Victoria Clemens,

You seem to have had the pleasure of making my acquaintance. However, we have not been properly introduced. I post as 'Way' but you already know my real name, since I have posted it several times. What is your real name? Do you stand by the words you post? Are you proud of yourself, willing for all to see who you are and what you stand for?

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:04:59 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Victoria Clemens
Subject: Sadism, hatred, sickness
Message:
Well sir, there is no action without reaction. This William is using work time and a computer at work to spill his perversity, hatred and bigotry. These type of people need to know that there is something called accountability: You do something in life and you pay the consecuences or reap the benefits.

I know Way as a very ethical, kind and honest person. He does not engage in bigotry and hatred. Just because he might disagree with you is not an excuse for fometing such lies. You ought to be ashamed. Does your mother know you condone that website? Do your kids? Do you have the guts not to be anonymous when you say these things? Who the hell do you think you are?

God, you say Way has chosen a path of hatred, and yet I have rarely ever read a post more filled with sadistic hatred in my life. WHO RAISED YOU? Did you grow up in a civilized country? Do you ever experience love or compassion? Are you this filled with hate ALL THE TIME, or is it just sometimes?

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 12:55:24 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Yes, Joe, excellent idea -- JHB?
Message:
With you all the way, Joe. Meanwhile, perhaps you should save all the pages on CAC for that purpose. Is Dave's still there? It shouldn't be lost, as I expect they'll be taking it down if they haven't already, seeing as he caved in to their intimidation. (Did I say that?)

Meanwhile, no responses yet to my emails yesterday. I intend to supplement them today.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 12:52:45 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Good idea Joe
Message:
Excellent idea in fact to point directly to CAC as an extreme example of the fear surrounding M and EV. It can only further illustrate how small minded the cult is and how fear and hatred is their response to facts and truthful information. Shine a bright spotlight on CAC and it will embarass any thinking premie.

By the way, on LG several premies including David A have denounced CAC.
[ Premies denounce CAC ]

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 12:43:22 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: But keep something in mind
Message:
Whoever gets put on that site, and I'm still pissed that I'm not on it, keep in mind that almost nobody will ever look at that site except some premies, which are a dwindling small number these days, and ex-premies who know it's hogwash.

Maharaji is extremely small potatoes. Hardly anybody has even heard of him and less care. Likewaise, hardly anybody will even see that stupid website, and even fewer will care.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:10:08 (EDT)
From: Victoria Clemens
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: really...?
Message:
Likewise, hardly anybody will even see that stupid website, and even fewer will care.

You crack me up.... I knew that types like you are delusional, but maybe somewhat intelligent...

Wait until the time in which you type the name of any the people featured on CAC and you get to that site.... You will need to do a lot of explaining.... Something like:

'I spend 4 hours a day abusing a public figure that I love to hate ferociously. I was a student of that person many years ago and now spend every waking hour engaged in brutal, obscene and perverted abuse... That is why they put me on that website. I am sure you will understand... So how about that job offer... (defending that case, my son inviting yours for a sleep over, going for that date/ Replace as necessary)'

A friendly suggestion: do whatever is needed NOT to be on that list.

Victoria
[ Shame on You! ]

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:28:33 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Victoria Clemens
Subject: Really...
Message:
Small potatoes, Victoria. You have unwarranted delusions of grandeur.

I'm trying to understand your strange mind. Do you really think that if you got somebody fired from their job because they said things about Maharaji you don't like, that will actually help your master? Do you think that will help his image? Do you think he'd want to be associated with that, while at the same time preacing peace and love? Have you thought about this? Have you seen what the premies are saying about you? Do you feel utterly alone?

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:33:50 (EDT)
From: Victoria
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: No...
Message:
No. Way's words speak for themselves. Way is now tasting some of his own medicine.

Quoted:
He encourages people on the net to write more defamatory letters.
A letter to xxxxxx would now be in order. It is easy to find an address once you have a phone number, doing a 'reverse' people search. I have found some addresses to match the phone numbers given below. The letter could identify the various websites against xxxxxand give particular reading recommendations, for example: 'two young girls were sexually molested by xxxx. xxxxxx was informed about this extremely serious problem and he failed miserably in his response.' The website's URL could also be given and the link to the posts.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 22:51:56 (EDT)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: Dear Victoria
Message:
I am just wondering if you have any plans to put me on the list and is so on what grounds?
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:39:30 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Victoria
Subject: That wasn't the question
Message:
Do you know that you are utterly alone, among both premies and ex-premies, in thinking that this kind of vendetta will not actually hurt Maharaji? Do you want to hurt Maharaji? Is that your goal? Why would you want to do that, and if you did, why do you care what Way thinks about Maharaji? Have you tried to find out what Maharaji thinks of that website? Do you care what he thinks?

If what Way is saying really is defamatory, and since he has the courage to say it and not be anonymous, unlike you by the way, why don't you sue him for defamation? Is it because it would require you to actually stand up in person, with some courage, as opposed to spineless anonymity?

But the bottom line is, do you care if this backfires on Maharaji, and do you know that lots of premies think it will? Do you feel utterly alone?

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:18:26 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Victoria Clemens
Subject: Here's a threat I'm prepared to stand by
Message:
You're going to face criminal prosecution, Cat, before this is all over.

Go ahead and laugh. I'm serious.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:00:57 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Here's a threat I'm prepared to stand by
Message:
Covert sponsors of the CAC also face legal problems. Want to formally disassociate yourself from this catastrophe, EV, Captain Rawat?
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 11:22:53 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Is an Ex Forum still needed?
Message:
It is obvious from the escalating fear around The Speaker that the forums have done their job. In fact, I think so much attention has been focused on the inconsistencies surrounding M, K, and EV that this format is obsolete.

I'm sure we many of us will reunite in a more sane and purposeful environment, but I think the forum format may have served it's purpose now and any sane person can see what M and EV is about. F7, F8, or F99 can only re-hash what is obvious. But to continue exploring our own beliefs and foibles without PWanKers would be mutually beneficial. Fencesitters, Ex's and PWKs could read all they want but not post unless they are willing to be honest.

I think the time has come to NOT engage PWK's at all. I am willing to set up a password protected forum for Exes only plus any PWK willing to be honest and open - should there be any. Postings can be read by anyone but only real people will be able to post. Engaging anonymous misguided M zealots is tiresome and leads to them putting up more sites like the new one. If they've got so much hatred and bile, let them stew in it and not unleash it on good people. I've not engaged the obviously troubled premies at all in the past and will continue that discipline whether on F7 or a new format. But anyone sincerely questioning his path with M & K is worthy of conversation and support. A few of these sincere fencesitters have arrived over time and at least one rather notable PWK is now becoming Ex specifically because of the EPO archives.

Best wishes to David as he deals with his blackmail backlash and to you others who were maligned.

Richard

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:07:07 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: YES!!
Message:
I think that a forum for password-protected posting but open reading is an excellent idea. I've sullied my mind for too long with the likes of Catweasel and his friends. This is NOT how I want to spend my life although I do look forward to continuing to talk with honest and reasonable people about the Maharaji cult for years to come. But these cowardly assholes are pests and pests aren't meant to be lived with forever.

Aoaji has set up an interesting password-protected 'linear conferencing model' test site that does away with threads and seems to have some real format benefits. Some, like Selene, apparently, prefer threads. Personally, I like the idea that one can read a bunch of comments without continuing clicking and waiting as Aoaji's site allows. The problem, with his model at least, is that even readers who don't post need paswords. I think that's too exclusive and a bad idea in terms of accessibility to premies, new exes or even casual observers.

Richard, Aoaji, are you aware of any programs, threaded or LCM, that are hybrid? If so, I'm definitely for it. If it costs, I'll contribute.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 14:17:43 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: YES!!
Message:
I think that a forum for password-protected posting but open reading is an excellent idea. I've sullied my mind for too long with the likes of Catweasel and his friends. This is NOT how I want to spend my life although I do look forward to continuing to talk with honest and reasonable people about the Maharaji cult for years to come. But these cowardly assholes are pests and pests aren't meant to be lived with forever.

Aoaji has set up an interesting password-protected 'linear conferencing model' test site that does away with threads and seems to have some real format benefits. Some, like Selene, apparently, prefer threads. Personally, I like the idea that one can read a bunch of comments without continuing clicking and waiting as Aoaji's site allows. The problem, with his model at least, is that even readers who don't post need paswords. I think that's too exclusive and a bad idea in terms of accessibility to premies, new exes or even casual observers.

Richard, Aoaji, are you aware of any programs, threaded or LCM, that are hybrid? If so, I'm definitely for it. If it costs, I'll contribute.


---

Jim,

Yapp is an
excellent linear conferencing system and does have the FishBowl
feature:

Yapp Demo
[ Yapp ]

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:38:33 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: YES!!
Message:
Jim, I've sent you some details via old fashioned email. Aoaji, what is the link to your sample forum?
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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 13:58:00 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Richard
Subject: Re: YES!!
Message:
Jim, I've sent you some details via old fashioned email. Aoaji, what is the link to your sample forum?


---

Please follow the link; it gives the details on registration.

We have only a handful of registrations; there's plenty of room!
[ sign-up sheet ]

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 12:37:22 (EDT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: I think there is a need for both
Message:
I think a forum still has a purpose, in a sort of free-wheeling environment, and the back and forth can be good for people to participate in and read.

But I think other sites and forums are also needed, and to some extent that has started.

I liked your idea about a website that is nothing more than written statements by ex-premies about their involvement in the Maharaji cult, how they got out of it, and how they feel about it now. It would be a kind of billboard of short 'journies' that would be helpful for people to read. It might include links to the EPO site, and a chance for people to send emails to comment, but otherwise would be just statements from ex-premies, which I think can be very powerful and to which a lot of people can relate.

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 11:45:36 (EDT)
From: a0aji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: Richard
Subject: Re: Is an Ex Forum still needed?
Message:
It is obvious from the escalating fear around The Speaker that the forums have done their job. In fact, I think so much attention has been focused on the inconsistencies surrounding M, K, and EV that this format is obsolete.

I'm sure we many of us will reunite in a more sane and purposeful environment, but I think the forum format may have served it's purpose now and any sane person can see what M and EV is about. F7, F8, or F99 can only re-hash what is obvious. But to continue exploring our own beliefs and foibles without PWanKers would be mutually beneficial. Fencesitters, Ex's and PWKs could read all they want but not post unless they are willing to be honest.

I think the time has come to NOT engage PWK's at all. I am willing to set up a password protected forum for Exes only plus any PWK willing to be honest and open - should there be any. Postings can be read by anyone but only real people will be able to post. Engaging anonymous misguided M zealots is tiresome and leads to them putting up more sites like the new one. If they've got so much hatred and bile, let them stew in it and not unleash it on good people. I've not engaged the obviously troubled premies at all in the past and will continue that discipline whether on F7 or a new format. But anyone sincerely questioning his path with M & K is worthy of conversation and support. A few of these sincere fencesitters have arrived over time and at least one rather notable PWK is now becoming Ex specifically because of the EPO archives.

Best wishes to David as he deals with his blackmail backlash and to you others who were maligned.

Richard


---

Nice post, Richard.

I think it necessary to divest from the idea of one person setting up
a forum for the rest of us, in that the one person can be intimidated,
bought, or otherwise coerced into acting other than as the fair
representative of our group, to the forum siting vendor.

The last forum admin was coerced into closing that forum. Where would
we be, communication-wise, if EPO was similarly forced to close? It
is our momentum that has others on alert to our continued successes here. I think from now on, we'll keep in touch, and make
web-based exhibitions (such as ex-premie.org) from time to time --
the toothpaste is out of the tube, and can't be put back inside.

However, our momentum is a bit more fragile; we will lose some of it
with each change in venue.

I think we need some changes. I'm not sure what they should be.

What guarantees would you offer the rest of us, with regard to
continued operation of the site you propose, in the face of threats
made against your person, or that of your family? ;)

a0aji

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Date: Wed, Aug 22, 2001 at 12:03:02 (EDT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: a0aji
Subject: Good point aOaji
Message:
If I put something together, I'll make it iron clad and not commit to it unless I'm willing to go to the wall.
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