WMary -:- Found this old article..... -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:45:26 (GMT)

__ DavidM -:- Found this old article..... -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:43:24 (GMT)

__ Been There -:- Nigerian Maharaji -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:40:20 (GMT)

__ JHB -:- The Nigerian Guru Maharaji Ji is someone else -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:22:04 (GMT)

__ __ CD -:- The Nigerian Guru Maharaji Ji is someone else -:- Tues, May 29, 2001 at 03:51:09 (GMT)

__ WMary -:- And this one..... -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 19:12:49 (GMT)

__ __ Gary Epton -:- And this one..... -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 22:07:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ banana bai -:- Not the same Maharaji -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 14:16:59 (GMT)

janet -:- JEAN-MICHEL-OT- whats the current word in paris -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:40:52 (GMT)

__ sb -:- the sky is falling, the sky is falling NT -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 04:39:25 (GMT)

banana bai -:- Knowledge Information Training Sessions -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 17:37:55 (GMT)

__ Bin Liner -:- It'd take more than a spoon to gag you .. -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 00:07:19 (GMT)

__ Banana Split Personality -:- Knowledge Information Training Sessions -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 22:31:04 (GMT)

__ __ Banana Split Personality -:- Sorry, I forgot......(NT) -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 01:24:44 (GMT)

__ General Mayhem -:- Knowledge Information Training Sessions -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:25:32 (GMT)

__ __ E Bai Gum-Ladd -:- and furthermore -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:29:07 (GMT)

__ Way -:- Thanks, bb -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 17:52:03 (GMT)

__ __ banana bai -:- Thanks, bb -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 14:13:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ Selene -:- what old days are you talkin about? -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 01:52:03 (GMT)

PBS RESPONDS -:- here it's. Time to put some energy in it !!! -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 17:32:14 (GMT)

__ General Mayhem -:- Probability theory -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:40:20 (GMT)

__ __ sb -:- Probability theory -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 00:50:54 (GMT)

__ __ Gary Epton -:- Probability theory -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 22:51:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ Gary Epton -:- Barking Up the Wrong Tree -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 04:42:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ General Mayhem -:- Generals don't grunt -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 23:25:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Gary Epton -:- Generals don't grunt.....they just shit themselves -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 23:44:14 (GMT)

__ janet -:- thats an autoresponder, a 'bot that says they got -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:20:15 (GMT)

__ __ sb -:- I understand -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:38:35 (GMT)

__ Richard -:- And who are you? -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:14:48 (GMT)

__ __ janet -:- that's sb. she's excited after the krishna PBS spe -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:21:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ yeap -:- nt -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:40:30 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Huge press campaign against m in France these days -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 16:49:12 (GMT)

__ la-ex -:- Have you hugged your JM today?(great work)nt -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 15:15:36 (GMT)

__ Tim G -:- Merci infinement Jean-Michel. nt -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 23:16:29 (GMT)

__ WMary -:- Isn't that Event scheduled for tomorrow... -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 19:34:50 (GMT)

__ __ WMary -:- I guess it was sceduled for today... -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 16:17:14 (GMT)

__ Katie H -:- Bravo, J-M -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 17:01:15 (GMT)

__ __ Joe -:- Additional Bravo -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:37:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ Gary Epton -:- Bravoissimo-Ditto, et encore(NT) -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 23:33:23 (GMT)

__ creativejani -:- Huge press campaign against m in France these days -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 16:53:49 (GMT)

__ __ janet -:- if they ( EV)had any brains, they would!!! -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:31:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ Pink Panther -:- ici, mon ami! (non-text) -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 01:43:55 (GMT)

__ __ Katie H -:- J-M's sense of humor -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:06:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ creativejani -:- J-M's sense of humor...thank the lord for that! -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 22:56:49 (GMT)

__ __ Way -:- Really impressive -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:02:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ Katie H -:- Thanks, Way -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:08:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- I'm quite busy these days -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:48:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ sb -:- fantastic JM!!! NT -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 03:07:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- I'm quite busy these days -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 19:10:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- What about your guinea pig? -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 20:26:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- What about your guinea pig? -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 03:11:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Fantastic work there, J-M! -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 00:27:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Yeah, they want to have his visa revoked for Europ -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 07:33:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ creativejani -:- I'm so glad I found this site when I did! -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 14:44:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- Fantastic work there, J-M!...nt -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 00:57:10 (GMT)

Deep Mole -:- G V information -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 16:33:39 (GMT)

__ Cynthia -:- I'll pass this on..... -:- Mon, May 28, 2001 at 19:09:46 (GMT)

__ Joe -:- Does this plane have something to do with M? -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 22:23:03 (GMT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Moron Rawat's jet's spotters -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 07:53:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ G -:- There's a correlation with programs. -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 22:27:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ G -:- vacation in England? -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 02:19:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ G -:- SELCAL = PREM, Selective Calling code -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 18:35:46 (GMT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Chances are excellent IMO -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 04:36:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ G -:- N54PR near Leeds, UK on 27-Sep-00 -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 05:46:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ JHB -:- Was that the Harrogate Program? -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 12:15:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ G -:- Yes, Harrogate program was on 27-Sep-00 -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 22:00:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ Richard -:- Read between the numbers for hidden joke. -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 04:57:46 (GMT)

__ __ clh -:- Does this plane have something to do with M? -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 22:43:07 (GMT)

__ Secret Squirrel -:- Gulfstream V information - lookit, lookit! -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 19:06:44 (GMT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Gulfstream V Fantastic !!! But what about -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 20:30:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ G -:- It seems to me that ... -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:13:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ Joy -:- How Does He Dare Presume He Deserves This? -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 20:46:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Helen -:- How Does He Dare Presume He Deserves This? -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 03:38:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Joy -:- How Does He Dare Presume He Deserves This? -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 04:53:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- How Does He Dare Presume He Deserves This? -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 15:58:56 (GMT)

SB -:- MAHARAJI why You made us ADORE YOU? -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 20:32:59 (GMT)

__ Disculta -:- Expresate amiga! nt -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 21:02:34 (GMT)

__ __ sb -:- Expresate amiga! tenia que decirlo -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 21:20:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ Disculta -:- Claro que si -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 01:21:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ sb -:- Claro que si -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 04:22:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ Mercedes -:- Expresate amiga! tenia que decirlo -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 01:18:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ sb -:- Expresate amiga! tenia que decirlo -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 02:38:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Mercedes -:- Yo soy de... -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 16:40:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ sb -:- Tendriamos -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 16:56:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Yo soy de... -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 16:55:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Fatman. -:- No te fies hasta que veas su foto (st/nt). -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:51:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ right -:- thanks -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:43:02 (GMT)

Way -:- Why do you hide your father away? -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 18:53:22 (GMT)

__ Gary Epton -:- Why do you hide your father away? -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 21:39:05 (GMT)

__ __ Bob -:- it does sound more sexy -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 02:16:45 (GMT)

creativejani -:- Ode to M -'Serves him right, the tide is turning.. -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 16:02:33 (GMT)

__ sb -:- good poem! aughhh -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:51:11 (GMT)

__ __ creativejani -:- thanks!...thoughts on creativity and god... -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 15:48:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ SB -:- thanks!...thoughts on creativity and god... -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 05:09:04 (GMT)

clh -:- Got scared by 'Generasl Mayhem''s post in thread -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 08:45:11 (GMT)

__ General Mayhem -:- What are you afraid of? -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 00:06:59 (GMT)

__ __ Selene -:- read Katie's post below says it all -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 01:35:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ General Mayhem -:- Not interested -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 01:43:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Selene -:- it wasn't advice ever heard of -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 01:59:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ General Mayhem -:- That's a good one -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 02:15:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Oh, I think I know who you are, GM -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:03:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ General Mayhem -:- Nobody is angry -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:16:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ sb -:- Now you are talking -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:46:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ General Mayhem -:- I know -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 23:22:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ sb -:- I know -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 12:55:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Nobody is angry - good. -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:27:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ General Mayhem -:- On the move -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 19:02:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- not interested -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 02:36:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ General Mayhem -:- She gives as good as she gets -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 19:14:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- why thank you :) -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 23:35:30 (GMT)

__ Joe -:- Another Protest -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 16:50:39 (GMT)

__ __ clh -:- Another Protest -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 19:27:55 (GMT)

__ Susan -:- Question CLH -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 16:37:05 (GMT)

__ __ clh -:- Question CLH -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 19:33:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ Susan -:- could have been then -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 19:47:58 (GMT)

__ Katie H. -:- I agree with you, clh -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 15:12:18 (GMT)

__ __ Disculta -:- Hear hear katie nt -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 17:07:05 (GMT)

__ creativejani -:- Got scared by 'Generasl Mayhem''s post in thread -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 15:00:57 (GMT)

__ __ Ulf -:- Got scared by 'Generasl Mayhem''s post in thread -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 21:16:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ creativejani -:- Dark night... -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 16:51:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Dr. Crypto-nite -:- Dark night.= Dark Knight = sir dave (nt) -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 02:33:40 (GMT)

__ Moldy Warp -:- Yeh clh... Any action should be non-violent direct -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 09:26:10 (GMT)

__ __ clh -:- Yeh clh... Any action should be non-violent direct -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 19:41:14 (GMT)

Jodie -:- Jagdeo - and Abi -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 08:18:05 (GMT)

__ Joy -:- Here's some info for you Jodie -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 20:38:12 (GMT)

__ __ Gary Epton -:- This Point is Worth Repeating -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 04:04:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ Joy -:- Time to Sue! -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 15:46:29 (GMT)

__ Michael Dettmers -:- Jagdeo - and Abi -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 19:01:52 (GMT)

__ Tim G -:- Jagdeo - and Abi -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 01:19:36 (GMT)

__ creativejani -:- Jagdeo - and Abi - we're all here for you! -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 21:06:23 (GMT)

__ Cynthia -:- Welcome Jodie... -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 20:05:37 (GMT)

__ suchabanana -:- Hello, Jodie - DLM and miragey were informed of it -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 19:21:19 (GMT)

__ Connie -:- Welcome and thank you -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 15:36:20 (GMT)

__ Mercedes -:- Hi Jodie -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 15:26:11 (GMT)

__ Katie H -:- Jagdeo - and Abi -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 14:58:26 (GMT)

__ Susan -:- thank you Jodie -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 14:52:21 (GMT)

__ __ Susan -:- also -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 15:56:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ Lesley -:- Clarity in a dark place -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 21:38:06 (GMT)

__ Sandy -:- Hi Jodie -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 11:16:32 (GMT)

__ __ JohnT -:- Hi Jodie -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 12:32:52 (GMT)

__ __ Tim G -:- Hi Jodie..Sandy says it all. -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 12:17:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ Richard -:- Welcome and thank you -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 16:03:59 (GMT)

__ Moldy Warp -:- Welcome Jodie -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 09:42:36 (GMT)

__ janet -:- let me personally welcome you here for us all -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 09:20:15 (GMT)

__ __ Jodie - Abi's Mum -:- Huge thanks for all your wonderful support -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 09:15:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ Sandy -:- Reckoning... -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 12:50:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ Dot -:- Huge thanks for all your wonderful support -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 12:35:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ creativejani -:- Huge thanks ... -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 10:25:49 (GMT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Thank you Jodie, and here's why I'm involved -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 10:01:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ sb -:- Thank you Jodie, and here's why I'm involved -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 13:06:03 (GMT)

Peter Howie -:- And on and on it goes. -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 03:20:00 (GMT)

__ Tony -:- And on and on it goes. -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:01:23 (GMT)

__ Joe -:- And on and on it goes. -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 16:58:56 (GMT)

__ Gregg -:- And on and on and on and on it goes. -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 13:29:29 (GMT)

__ Your Little mate CW -:- Why dont you just forget about it then -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 06:19:15 (GMT)

__ __ Peter Howie -:- Why dont you just forget about it then -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 23:56:52 (GMT)

__ __ sb -:- Why dont you just forget about it then -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 21:22:58 (GMT)

__ __ Katie H -:- Reasons not to forget about it -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 15:29:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ Joe -:- Thanks, Katie -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 17:01:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ CW -:- Thanks, Katie -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 05:32:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- 'You cant deny what is actually happening. ..' -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 23:00:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- 'You cant deny what is actually happening. ..' -:- Sun, May 27, 2001 at 00:44:11 (GMT)

__ __ Scott T. -:- Why dont you just forget about it then -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 08:10:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ CW -:- Why dont you just forget about it then -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 14:05:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Why dont you just forget about it then -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 15:46:15 (GMT)

__ __ Sam Hardy -:- Why dont you just forget about it then -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 06:29:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ Dave Catweasel -:- Why Dave? -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 07:05:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Sam Hardy -:- Why Not Dave? -:- Fri, May 25, 2001 at 00:01:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ CW -:- Why Not Dave? -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 00:28:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Sam Hardy -:- How about Cerise? nt -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 07:07:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- How about Cerise? nt -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 12:35:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- How about Cerise? nt -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 16:38:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- thanks Nigel!! -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 16:56:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ NetSpy -:- How 'bout Alice? -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 06:43:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- How 'bout Alice? -:- Sat, May 26, 2001 at 12:34:04 (GMT)

Lesley -:- Hey, David, just checked the inactive index -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 02:26:40 (GMT)

__ Nigel -:- Lesley, can you email me? Thanks. (nt) -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 16:38:37 (GMT)

Gregg -:- Does this sound familiar? -:- Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 00:08:39 (GMT)

Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:45:26 (GMT) From: WMary Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Found this old article..... Message:

.......at this site: GURUS Where Have All the Gurus Gone? Note: The follwing is the original article that I wrote before it was edited 'for balance'. The publisher feared that advertisers would be offended by this version and he re-wrote some parts. For the final version, pick up theNovember 1997 issue of Nexus. Mark Fearer Nexus November 1997 The age of the guru began in the early 1970s with a young America that was hungry for spiritual values and ideas. Literally meaning 'venerable one', gurus attracted hundreds of thousands of followers in the U.S. alone, and had a strong and permanent impact on American culture, as East met West. Meditation, reincarnation, the New Age and a questioning of materialist values were all new concepts that were foreign at the time, but are now taken for granted. What happened to those first American gurus and their movements? Divine Light One of the first was Satguru Maharaj Ji (born Rawat Singh), the 13-year old guru who inherited that position from his father at age eight, and came over from India in 1971. Boulder was one of his first visits that year, and he spoke at Red Rocks Amphitheater the following year. Bob Mishler, a former top aide who lived in Denver at the time, said Maharaji had 50-60,000 initiates in Colorado alone. With Mishler's help, Maharaji, his mother and brother brought the Divine Light Mission, which referred to the source of life and truth within each person, from India to the U.S. What most people remember was his increasing collection of material goods. 'He had grown accustomed to a very luxurious lifestyle,' recalls Mishler in a 1979 radio interview. 'A lot of the necessity of keeping the members believing that he was God was to ensure that they would continue to support him in this lifestyle. He must have had at least three Mercedes, a couple of Rolls Royces, and least three or four other luxurious automobiles in the $30-40,000 range.' Maharaji left the U.S.. took a low profile, and hasn't any interviews since 1982. However, last year several news reports said he was in Nigeria, where he has an estate and many devotees. Maharaji was quoted as saying the Nigerian officials are persecuting he and his adherents - the last incident included demolishing several of his buildings.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:43:24 (GMT) From: DavidM Email: None To: WMary Subject: Found this old article..... Message:

Hello WMary, Hi everyone, Thought you'd be interested to hear that I first heard about EPO in that article, in that Nexus. I checked out the site at that time, found it interesting, got a few chuckles, but didn't really stay tuned. I had been drifting away from M for some years. I had been increasingly put off by all the usual drips and was glad to see that those feelings resonated with others' experiences. It was a couple years later that I checked out the site again, this time drinking it all in - the journeys, the forum - and it was instrumental in my personal declaration of 'official' ex-dom. The timing was right, together with other pieces of the transformation puzzle that were unfolding for me. Since then I've lurked here from time to time. I haven't really been in a position to contribute, but may be in the future and would like to. Meanwhile, just a heart felt Thanks, this place makes a difference! I appreciate this community of people, who share an extraordinary past experience, just trying to be real folks, and maybe shine a light for others. Cheers, David

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:40:20 (GMT) From: Been There Email: None To: WMary Subject: Nigerian Maharaji Message:

There was (is?) a Nigerian Maharaji, an imitator. He set up ashrams, gave Knowledge, developed devotees, and called himself 'Maharaji'. But he is a different guy, black African presumably.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:22:04 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: WMary Subject: The Nigerian Guru Maharaji Ji is someone else Message:

Bad research by the article writer. John.

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Date: Tues, May 29, 2001 at 03:51:09 (GMT) From: CD Email: None To: JHB Subject: The Nigerian Guru Maharaji Ji is someone else Message:

John, How can you throw cold water on such a nice hot story?

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 19:12:49 (GMT) From: WMary Email: None To: Everyone Subject: And this one..... Message:

by Francis Wheen in, The Guardian (July 99): I really love your lotus feet Jonathan Cainer, the Daily Mail's resident stargazer, has taken umbrage at my suggestion that he is a devotee of Maharaji, the tubby preacher who used to call himself the Guru Maharaj Ji. Why, then, does he maintain a large website devoted to the old boy? 'I'm a keen aficionado of Maharaji's work and his message,' Cainer explains, in a 'very personal statement' posted on the website replying to my article last week. 'But I really have to reject that devotion notion. It implies some kind of religious faith and if this is a religion or faith, that's the first I have heard of it in my 20-odd years of involvement.' Tut tut: Cainer clearly hasn't been paying attention. Maharaji himself dealt with the 'devotion notion' when addressing more than 50,000 followers in New Delhi on April 13 1991: 'What has a devotee to become? A devotee has to become a receptacle. And what has a disciple to become? A disciple too has to become a receptacle. Whatever you name him, he is meant to be a vessel, meant to be empty... You have to turn to the Master and pray to him to give you prudence - 'Maharaji, please give me wisdom... If my attention is diverted somewhere else, O my Lord, please call me back to you... I do not know what is good for me. But you know best.'' Cainer says Maharaji has never claimed to be 'some kind of divinity'. In fact, he has often done just that. Interviewed by the Divine Times newspaper in February 1973, he described himself as 'the Supremest Lord in person'. In February 1982 he advised aficionados that 'by yourself you cannot do anything, but I can do everything... I am the law, in which rests the movement of the stars and the growth of each living cell'. At another New Delhi rally, on November 9 1990, he announced that 'the guru is such a personality about whom it is said: 'I bow down to the lotus-feet of my Guru Maharaji, who is the ocean of mercy and is actually Hari (God) himself in human form.'' Since then, Maharaji has been more cautious, presenting himself merely as a Master of Meditation. But I have it on the best possible authority that he hasn't changed his views: only last Saturday, the Maharaji assured a crowd in Barcelona that his message 'is always the same'. How could Cainer fail to notice? I can only assume that he has been too busy admiring the fragrant lotus-feet of the editor of the Daily Mail.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 22:07:48 (GMT) From: Gary Epton Email: None To: WMary Subject: And this one..... Message:

Well, at least Francis Whelan did her research. Mark Fearer's article doesn't amount to much to those who drop in here, especially when he says: 'Maharaji left the U.S.. took a low profile, and hasn't any interviews since 1982. However, last year several news reports said he was in Nigeria, where he has an estate and many devotees. Maharaji was quoted as saying the Nigerian officials are persecuting he and his adherents - the last incident included demolishing several of his buildings Makes it sound as if he has been holed up in Nigeria all this time. Glad they demolished his buildings though, if it is true. Gary

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Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 14:16:59 (GMT) From: banana bai Email: None To: Gary Epton Subject: Not the same Maharaji Message:

The Maharaji in Nigeria does call himself a satguru, but he is a totally different person than the Maharaji people are talking about on this board. I did the research when I read the news story, but didn't keep any of the information. All I remember is that the description of the guy could never have been the Maharaji we all know and love (or not).

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:40:52 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Everyone Subject: JEAN-MICHEL-OT- whats the current word in paris Message:

about the supposed disinterrment of jim morrison's body from Pere-Lachaise and his 'eviction' from his grave in France? I read that the lawsuit, brought by 200 families with relatives buried there, was successful, in demanding that morrison be removed from the cemetary, in reaction to all the graffitti and defacement his mourners have committed, over the 30 years he's been buried there. any word on that lately? is there any movement going on to remove him soon? i think july 3rd or 6th the lease is up. i have a very interested cemetary here in los angeles that would love to have him brought there. I'm serious. Jim wrote one of his most famous poems in it and it's a beautiful place now. If the arrangements could be made, It's solved.

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Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 04:39:25 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: janet Subject: the sky is falling, the sky is falling NT Message:

I'm glad some more will enjoy freedom.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 17:37:55 (GMT) From: banana bai Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Knowledge Information Training Sessions Message:

Attire: Business Casual Cost: Outrageous, especially considering this is for volunteers to learn how to be better volunteers Concept: How to tell people about Knowledge. Me, I'm a premie, but I'm sitting out this 'era' of Elan Vital. Gag me with a spoon!! 'Sweetness in the night. It passes. Like chocolate melting on the tongue.' -- Francesca Talenti bb (formerly Christian Star)

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 00:07:19 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: banana bai Subject: It'd take more than a spoon to gag you .. Message:

..raspberry . How long did it take you to get back from Planet FU2 ? 'Sweetness on the morning drive to work : it passes . Like old chewing gum flicked out the window : fuck , it's stuck to my finger.' Keep on plucking the feathers out of the serpent's arse . Pat Dorrity

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 22:31:04 (GMT) From: Banana Split Personality Email: None To: banana bai Subject: Knowledge Information Training Sessions Message:

Banana Bai, have you been introduced to Suchabanana? As a regular poster here he just might object to you co-opting the 'banana' handle. Then again who am I to interfere with with forfruitous sex-a-peel?

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 01:24:44 (GMT) From: Banana Split Personality Email: epton@hotmail.com To: FA Subject: Sorry, I forgot......(NT) Message:

shlarfle

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:25:32 (GMT) From: General Mayhem Email: None To: banana bai Subject: Knowledge Information Training Sessions Message:

Christian Star? - I never guessed but then neither did they.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:29:07 (GMT) From: E Bai Gum-Ladd Email: up@mill To: Glen Subject: and furthermore Message:

Why not use different names? It keeps Glen on his toes.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 17:52:03 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: banana bai Subject: Thanks, bb Message:

I wonder what the heart says when it gets this invitation: 'Knowledge Information Training Sessions' The heart must recoil at the thought, and at this terminology, knowing full well that it needs no such training to feel what it feels and to express what it feels. These sessions sound almost military-like. It worked so much better in the good old days. When I first entered an ashram, (like the premie house picture posted by Richard below),I saw the premies sharing peace and love and commitment, pursuing a high ideal. Everyone expressed themselves eloquently and spontaneously, from the heart, so to speak. I was very attracted. So, BB, keep following your heart, don't let your bubble burst, but don't be too surprised if it leads you away from Mr. Rawat. That's ok, because we never have to give up our ideals, only our illusions.

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 14:13:55 (GMT) From: banana bai Email: None To: Way Subject: Thanks, bb Message:

And thanks to you, Way, for being the only one who put a subject line I could stand to read. One is not always up to poison arrows... Well, I don't know what's going to happen. I loved the spontaneity and realness of the early days too, and this artificial b.s. is more than I can stand. I am repulsed by it. It has nothing of the beauty I experienced in the early days when people were free to: (1) wear anything they wanted (except those in the ashram), (2) say whatever they felt however they felt like saying it, and (3) could go to all kinds of programs FREE OF CHARGE. However I still have faith in Maharaji's Grace, and I'm gonna be waiting for the pendulum to swing. Yes, I am a cock-eyed optimist -- and after all, the value of the experience of Knowledge has been a lifesaver to me. Bob Mishler told me, back in the '70s (and after he left Maharaji) that Maharaji was afraid of people hating him; that the big decisions he made regarding policies hinged upon his fear of their hatred. I cannot understand why he says to trust him but he does not seem to trust us. He says he trusts us, but his actions are not like he trusts us. Shit. I really don't understand. I just hope he knows that those who love him don't all expect him to be 'perfect.' Is Jagdeo still a representative of Maharaji, in any form? Does he have an official position? If so, I find that intolerable. It is sad.

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Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 01:52:03 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: banana bai Subject: what old days are you talkin about? Message:

Like watching M dance around half naked ? yummy!!! You can still wear whatever you want I have seen some very creative outfits looking all the more creative on middle agers. You can still say whatever you feel however you feel like saying it, and expect the same results. More muted actually. People just look away or tsk tsk. and just as there is no free lunch: there was never any free program. Always a price may not have been hard cash may have been horrible traveling conditions, loss of a job, mommy getting mad at you for risking your SSI check, whatever. so, then, why leave now? The above reasons aside there are a lot more reasons to leave a cult. For one M is full of shit and he isn't giving anything you don't have. You are posting your praise of him while posting your doubts. Knowledge Lite is like that isn't it? making it look like you can have it both ways, for people just like you.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 17:32:14 (GMT) From: PBS RESPONDS Email: None To: Everyone Subject: here it's. Time to put some energy in it !!! Message:

I wrote two hours a go and they just responded. Here is their response. Thank you for writing to PBS. We value your input, and your comments will be forwarded to the appropriate department and/or producers. Unfortunately, due to the enormous volume of mail we receive, we are unable to provide a personal response to all inquiries. But rest assured, your comments have been read, and if we have more information for you, we'll get back to you as soon as possible. Currently, our response time is approximately 3-5 weeks. Meanwhile, read on for information which just might answer your questions right now. *Check out PBS's Frequently Asked Questions page at http://www.pbs.org/aboutsite/faq.html for answers to many of your questions, including video and transcript availability for PBS programs, program addresses and much more. If your question is answered by our FAQs, we will not write an additional response. *Want to know what's showing on PBS? Check out TV Schedules at http://www.pbs.org/whatson for TV listings, picks of the month and PBS's Satellite Schedule. If you would like to know when a program will air or be rebroadcast, please contact your local station directly at http://www.pbs.org/stations because all final program scheduling decisions are determined locally by each of our member stations. *Want a video of a PBS program? Visit shopPBS at http://www.shop.pbs.org/ for a list of videotapes and other products available for online purchase. You may also call shopPBS at 1-877-PBS-SHOP (1-877-727-7467) to purchase videotapes for personal use, and also to purchase videotapes to be used by organizations or institutions. Future inquiries of this nature may be sent directly to shopPBS at shop@pbs.org. *Questions or comments about a PBS program Web site will be forwarded to the site producers. PBS member stations rely on your support. Please check out 'Become a Member' at http://www.pbs.org/insidepbs/membership/ for information on how you can support your local PBS member station. Thank you again for sharing your thoughts, and we hope that you will continue to enjoy and support the wide variety of programs available on your local PBS station. PBS Interactive www.pbs.org I believe the only way all may get expossed is if PBS/others receives a bunch of letters from us. I did direct them to Ex-premies.org, of course.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:40:20 (GMT) From: General Mayhem Email: None To: PBS RESPONDS Subject: Probability theory Message:

Why not email your letter to every TV station in existence. I presume PBS is a local TV station? There's a law of probability. Email it to just one TV station and you might have a 1% chance of getting airtime. Email it to 200 TV stations and you've got a very good chance of getting on air. Email it to 1,000 TV stations and you've got several exposures, pretty much guaranteed.

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 00:50:54 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: General Mayhem Subject: Probability theory Message:

I agree. You think the letter is good or needs more inf.?

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 22:51:47 (GMT) From: Gary Epton Email: None To: General Mayhem Subject: Probability theory Message:

General, you've just revealed yourself as a grunt private. PBS, a local station? get with the programming.

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 04:42:53 (GMT) From: Gary Epton Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Barking Up the Wrong Tree Message:

A grunt private or a Brit. PBS (Public Broadcasting System) is nation-wide telly stateside. woof.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 23:25:24 (GMT) From: General Mayhem Email: None To: Gary Epton Subject: Generals don't grunt Message:

They bark. As in barking orders (or is it barking mad?)

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 23:44:14 (GMT) From: Gary Epton Email: None To: General Mayhem Subject: Generals don't grunt.....they just shit themselves Message:

That be marching orders and I think we've all tolerated enuff of that......

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:20:15 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: sb Subject: thats an autoresponder, a 'bot that says they got Message:

your mail. its not a human. don't expect fanfare. you probably won't hear from them again. i did the same thing with america's most wanted. autoresponders are standard business practice in email these days. it's a polite way of setting up a machine to answer for them,acknowledgeing every email without tying up their people.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:38:35 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: janet Subject: I understand Message:

It was spontaneous. We'll see. I'm writing more details soon. I just remember that someone I know has connections with PBS. What is wrong is wrong luv, sb

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:14:48 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: PBS RESPONDS Subject: And who are you? Message:

You are asking everyone who participates here to jump on your bandwagon, so who are you and why do you feel this is important?

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:21:51 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Richard Subject: that's sb. she's excited after the krishna PBS spe Message:

cial on tv the other night.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:40:30 (GMT) From: yeap Email: None To: janet Subject: nt Message:

nt

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 16:49:12 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Huge press campaign against m in France these days Message:

Can't tell you what's going on here, articles in major newspapers every day, radio and TV interviews etc ... M's coming in Versailles is the big thing in France, he must be peeing in his pants. Lots of propagation going to happen, EV's going to hire me as a press attaché, and I'm going to ask for 10% on every propagation kit sold by Visions in France!

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 15:15:36 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: all Subject: Have you hugged your JM today?(great work)nt Message:

keep it up!

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 23:16:29 (GMT) From: Tim G Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Merci infinement Jean-Michel. nt Message:

YIPEE

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 19:34:50 (GMT) From: WMary Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Isn't that Event scheduled for tomorrow... Message:

May 26th and 27th?

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 16:17:14 (GMT) From: WMary Email: None To: all Subject: I guess it was sceduled for today... Message:

but apparently little boy guru got scared. I am not surprised that with the national attention cults have received and maharaji's cult in particular, that he decided not to land in France. He has enough people looking out for him. Where is his next scheduled event? and has the media in that city been prepared? One day he will have to fly around the world and be afraid to land anywhere.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 17:01:15 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Bravo, J-M Message:

A lot of this is the result of your hard work in putting up all those pages, translating, and running the French forum. I just checked the French forum - looks like at least one newspaper/magazine has interviewed YOU :). Please keep us posted - this is very interesting, and also good news. When is M's program at Versailles scheduled.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:37:49 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Katie H Subject: Additional Bravo Message:

That's great news, J-M. I would love to read that stuff but my French is lacking. Also, I just wanted to say and all the work you've done, including all the information you have compiled, has really been invaluable. Great work.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 23:33:23 (GMT) From: Gary Epton Email: None To: J-M-Kahn Subject: Bravoissimo-Ditto, et encore(NT) Message:

JSCA

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 16:53:49 (GMT) From: creativejani Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Huge press campaign against m in France these days Message:

Are you serious about the press attache? surely you're not going to help him spread his lies and con any more people? I am concerned!

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:31:06 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: creativejani and J_M Subject: if they ( EV)had any brains, they would!!! Message:

if they really cared about untangling the tangled web they have snarled, and were genuinely interested in making good and understanding what they've done wrong, J_M would be exactly the man they would turn to, to humbly ask what to do to end this disaster. Who better? He knew them from the inside, he's held positions of high trust, he can speak honestly to both them and the public fearlessly, and oh yes, 10% would be quite a reasonable commission for doing the favor to save their sorry asses from the meatgrinder. if they cared about reality at all alors, and alas, it will not be. so in lieu of sanity, prepare to sit back and enjoy a classic french farce.. where is Inspector Clouseau when you need him?

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 01:43:55 (GMT) From: Pink Panther Email: None To: janet Subject: ici, mon ami! (non-text) Message:

Gary E.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:06:30 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: creativejani Subject: J-M's sense of humor Message:

is twisted (kidding). Or maybe you have to be French! I think he's just talking about the fact that he's been interviewed about this site and about M a number of times. J-M has put an unbelievable amount of work into the ex-premie.org site - putting up MANY, MANY pages in both French and English. Can't think of a better person to interview myself.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 22:56:49 (GMT) From: creativejani Email: None To: Katie H and janet Subject: J-M's sense of humor...thank the lord for that! Message:

I was hoping that'd be the explanation - it's difficult to pick up the finer French nuances when it's just text - sorry to have doubted you J-M! (I think my ability to trust has been a bit damaged by my recent discovery of the facts about M's private life.) After 27 years of believing M was someone to respect, I could believe anything about anyone at the moment! Thanks for the reassurance.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:02:29 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: creativejani Subject: Really impressive Message:

JM, I am very impressed with your interview, reprinted over on the French forum, and the followup article in l'Humanite. To the English speaking members here: JM has also been interviewed on French national television! The National Assembly of France is now working to adopt regulations against cults. There is even talk of rescinding Rawat's travel visa to France if sufficient documentation against him can be collected.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:08:25 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: Way Subject: Thanks, Way Message:

I can (barely) get the gist of something in French, but bog down if I try to go much further in translation. I think J-M is too modest.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:48:29 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Katie H Subject: I'm quite busy these days Message:

But I intend to have a reproducion of all pres articles online next week (unless EV hires me :-))) I've already had one radio interview broadasted, made a new one today that should be broadcasted tomorrow. Gilles Alfonsi, the journalist who made the Combat review also had a couple of radio interviews, and lot more to come ...... (The TV interview hasn't been broadcasted yet, should be soon, and also more to come .....)

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Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 03:07:57 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: fantastic JM!!! NT Message:

nt

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 19:10:51 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: I'm quite busy these days Message:

J-M: This is great news! You ARE too modest, man! Fantastic, all the work you've been doing. I wish I could understand French so I could read the articles. Is there a translation on your site? Go JM! Go JM! And come back and visit us soon.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 20:26:54 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Helen Subject: What about your guinea pig? Message:

Does hee need some special care ?

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 03:11:05 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: What about your guinea pig? Message:

The guinea pig has a friend now. I don't know how deep guinea pig friendships go. Mostly they do 'parallel eating.' Colleen doesn't take very good care of them, though! Why 8 year olds wouldn't make good parents! We end up doing the work, mostly involving shoveling large quantities of food into their cage. They eat A LOT!! They really are cute though. The dog is scared to death of them, they try to nibble on her hair. it really freaks her out! Like a horror movie Chuckie doll for dogs! So can I read an English version of these interviews? This is really exciting. You've done great. Guru M would be proud of you, oh no, wait a minute...that's not right, why he's not proud of all, he's goddamn mad at ya! But hey, *we're* all proud of you! When are you coming back to the U.S.? My friend asked me 'who was the cute Frenchman stayign at your place?' and I said, 'Oh, he's a guy I met on the Internet' HA HA HO!! Hope all is well with you. Helen

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 00:27:39 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: MarianneDB@aol.com To: Jean-Michel Subject: Fantastic work there, J-M! Message:

You have a done a wonderful job with all of this. Please thank the folks at Combat for their hard work too. Finally the curtain of secrecy has been drawn back and the cult, and its higher echelons, exposed. These press reports must be having repercussions all over Europe, not just in France. Way says that there is talk in the government of having Capt. Rawat's travel visa revoked? What is happening with that? Good work! Hope you're doing well. Marianne

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 07:33:42 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Yeah, they want to have his visa revoked for Europ Message:

The Combat folks are starting a campaign based on this. I've signed their manifest that's been sent to nearly 10,000 officials. There are several journalists' teams after him this weekend, let's see what comes out. It's the first time in decades that such an obcene guru's coming to France is outed and criticised in the medias. Authorities will have to react, or lose face. I doubt Rawat will ever come back, and EV survive to this. Future will say. Maybe they're not a cult after all (as Jean-Paul Biberian says - EV's president, in his public response printed in l'Humanité)!!!! At least records and bibliography will be updated, and EPO widely publicised.

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 14:44:13 (GMT) From: creativejani Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: I'm so glad I found this site when I did! Message:

I think it says alot for you and for France that this has happened - I've always loved France, there's a much freer feeling about Paris compared to London (where I live)- a blow struck for truth and freedom should start there, really. It's because you had a revolution- we never quite got round to it and accept that there's always some rich powerful guy/woman above us telling us what we can't do - it's genetic memory, we don't know what it's like to break free! Hope the press over here take it up - if he dares to come, that is. Perhaps he'll do his usual cowardly bit of running away...we can only hope, although seeing him pursued by the papparazzi on bikes would be a sight worth seeing. Respect, J-M.

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 00:57:10 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Fantastic work there, J-M!...nt Message:

awdfha

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 16:33:39 (GMT) From: Deep Mole Email: None To: Everyone Subject: G V information Message:

N-number : N54PR Aircraft Serial Number : 564 Aircraft Manufacturer : GULFSTREAM AEROSPACE Model : G-V Engine Manufacturer : BMW ROLLS Model : BR 700 SERIES Aircraft Year : 1999 Owner Name : WILMINGTON TRUST CO TRUSTEE Owner Address : ATTN CORP TRUST ADMIN/ACCT#523710 : 1100 N MARKET ST WILMINGTON, DE, 19890 Registration Date : 21-Aug-2000 Airworthiness Certificate Type : Experimental Approved Operations : Research and Development +++++++++++++++ Aircraft Database Search Result Last Database Update: Mon May 14 19:43:07 2001 ------------------------------------ Manufacturer : GULFSTREAM AEROSPACE Model Name : G-V Aircraft Type : Fixed Wing Multi-engine Engine Type : Turbojet Aircraft Category : Land Number of Engines : 2 Number of Seats : 20 Max. Gross Weight : 20,000 lbs or over Amateur Certification : Yes Aircraft Code : 3980116 ++++++++++++++++ Engine Database Search Result Last Database Update: Mon May 14 19:43:07 2001 ------------------------------------------ Manufacturer : BMW ROLLS Model Name : BR 700 SERIES Engine Type : Turbojet Thrust : 149700 pounds Engine Code : 09500

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Date: Mon, May 28, 2001 at 19:09:46 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Deep Mole Subject: I'll pass this on..... Message:

to my brother-in-law who is an Air Traffic Controller at TF Green in Providence, R.I. Any news on the where-abouts of the yacht? I've asked my sister and brother-in-law to keep an eye out (with their digital camera) whenever they happen to go over to Newport--ya never know. Great Info... Cynthia P.S. My bro-in-law has designed for PATCO (air traffic controllers' union) websites in the last 3 airports he's worked: Boston/Logan, Richmond, and now Providence where he continues to be very involved in the union. Ya can't get into those PATCO websites without a password, however. It's for FAA employees only!)

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 22:23:03 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Deep Mole Subject: Does this plane have something to do with M? Message:

And how do you know that, given that nothing on there is evidence of M or one of the shell corporations he uses. Is the number of the plane known to be the number of M's plane? Wilmington Trust is probably the lender on the plane, which I assume is heavily financed by debt, and one of the reasons EV is constantly trying to raise money to make the payments, if indeed, this is M's plane.

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 07:53:38 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Joe Subject: Moron Rawat's jet's spotters Message:

N54PR spotted in Gatwick GATWICK 04/03/01 http://www.lhr-lgw.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/gatwick/march01/marlgwbiz01/bzlgw0403.html and 05/03/01 http://www.lhr-lgw.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/gatwick/march01/marlgwbiz01/bzlgw0503.html http://www.eglf.flyer.co.uk/SEPTEMBER2000.html Date:Thursday,September 28,2000 FARNBOROUGH SPOTTERS WEBSITE http://www.ne.jp/asahi/spot/ikon/acars/0010/001027.HTM Japan - Nagoya N54PR GS0001 2000/10/27 11:50:49 --- Business Jet http://www.ne.jp/asahi/spot/ikon/acars/0103/010329.HTM Nagoya ..N54PR GS0001 2001/03/29 13:42:32 --- Business Jet MOST INTERESTING !! N54PR PREM GRS BUS GS0001 Business Flight 08/03/2001 12:31 http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:HR4M7BGh0ec:fp.djsteveb.f9.co.uk/fligh080301.htm+%22N54PR%22&hl=fr

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 22:27:10 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: There's a correlation with programs. Message:

http://www.eglf.flyer.co.uk/SEPTEMBER2000.html Date:Thursday,September 28,2000 FARNBOROUGH SPOTTERS WEBSITE The Harrogate, UK program was on September 27, 2000. http://www.ne.jp/asahi/spot/ikon/acars/0010/001027.HTM Japan - Nagoya N54PR GS0001 2000/10/27 11:50:49 --- Business Jet There was a program in Tokyo, Japan on October 22, 2000. Source: http://www.visions-catalog.org/visionsinternational/ind.html I don't know about the others. Is Gatwick near Rawat's mansion in England?

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Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 02:19:39 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: vacation in England? Message:

The spotters indicated that N54PR was spotted at Gatwick airport on 4-Mar-01 and 5-Mar-01, The report was generated by Steve Burke using Flight Database 4.1 indicated that there was a flight of N54PR somewhere in England on 8-Mar-01. There was a program in Thessalonika (sp?), Greece on 3-Mar-01. Was there any program in the UK around this time? Maybe this was a vacation at his mansion in England.

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 18:35:46 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: SELCAL = PREM, Selective Calling code Message:

From http://www.airodyssey.net/reference/glossary.html SELCAL: Selective Calling. A high-frequency system enabling air traffic control to alert a particular aircraft, by means of flashing light or aural signal in the cockpit, for receipt of a message without the crew having to maintain a listening watch. Used on long-haul over-ocean airline routes and by intercontinental business jets. See http://www.arinc.com/freqmgmt/selcal.html http://www.arinc.com/freqmgmt/freq_mgmt_info.html I tried looking in a file extracted from http://www.irishaviation.net/seltext.zip, but PREM was not listed and there wasn't much info in that SELCAL database. There is a broken link 'Access the SELCAL database' off of http://www.gla.ac.uk/~woody/Bookmarks-current.html

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 04:36:12 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Joe Subject: Chances are excellent IMO Message:

There are not that many GV around ..... It's # is very close to his previous one (N-41PR) He's also using m's initials (Prem Rawat) It's also a Delaware company The picture was taken in Brisbane where not that many G V went It's been declared in August 2000, when we also know that m got his jet at that time. There are no reasons not to trust Deep Mole. Chances are excellent ....... and I hope European authorities will confirm this weekend.

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 05:46:36 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: N54PR near Leeds, UK on 27-Sep-00 Message:

From http://members.aol.com/LBAspotter/: Welcome to the Leeds-Bradford Spotters Site! : Leeds Bradford International Airport From http://members.aol.com/LBAspotter/movenow.htm: September/October/November/December 2000 reg type .. remarks : 27-Sep-00 : N54PR GULF 5 1st visit Leeds Bradford Airport is right near the city of Leeds in the UK. Might Rawat's plane have been there on 27-Sep-00? Also, someone could ask the webmaster of the Brisbane airport spotters web site when the picture was taken.

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 12:15:29 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: G Subject: Was that the Harrogate Program? Message:

Harrogate is about 30 miles north of Leeds, and I think the program was about then. We may not share these plane spotters enthusiasm, but they're doing fine service for the ex-premie cause! John.

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 22:00:03 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: JHB Subject: Yes, Harrogate program was on 27-Sep-00 Message:

I got that from http://www.geocities.com/Rawatbackup/Rawat_tour/Events.htm and http://www.visions-catalog.org/visionsinternational/harrogateuk.html

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 04:57:46 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Read between the numbers for hidden joke. Message:

For this Gulfstream GV, the number 54PR obviously means (G) 'V for Prem Rawat'.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 22:43:07 (GMT) From: clh Email: None To: Joe Subject: Does this plane have something to do with M? Message:

It is clear Wilmington Trust is the Trustee for a Trust that is the owner. The Lender (if the plane's purchase was financed, and I don't know if that's likely or not, despite being a fairly astute finacial guy. We'd need to have a lot more data on m's finances than anyone except his advisors are ever likely to KNOW. It is possible, would be normal, but let's watch out for stating assumptions as facts.) wouldn't be on this type of document. If it is m's plane, he would be likely to hold it thru a Trust, so he could control it without owning it. Same thing people do with off shore companies to legally avoid taxes.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 19:06:44 (GMT) From: Secret Squirrel Email: None To: Deep Mole Subject: Gulfstream V information - lookit, lookit! Message:

pic here: http://www.brisbaneairport.net/photos/images/N54PR_jpg.jpg (takes a while to load so be patient).

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 20:30:33 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Secret Squirrel Subject: Gulfstream V Fantastic !!! But what about Message:

corporate details ? Who holds the company's shares ?

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:13:36 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: It seems to me that ... Message:

The name and address WILMINGTON TRUST CO TRUSTEE ATTN CORP TRUST ADMIN/ACCT#523710 1100 N MARKET ST WILMINGTON, DE, 19890 seems to indicate that Wilmington Trust Company is acting as trustee for Prem Rawat, and account 523710 is his corporate trust account. Wilmington Trust Company is a state commercial bank and is a subsidiary of Wilmington Trust Corporation. The 1100 N Market St address is for the headquarters of Wilmington Trust Company.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 20:46:29 (GMT) From: Joy Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: How Does He Dare Presume He Deserves This? Message:

I was watching a similar very expensive private jet land at Boeing Field the other day, as I was passing in my car. It struck me how very much apart for the ordinary person M must be to ride around in such a manner, and how *incredibly* egotistic he must be to presume he deserves to have this and that even First Class is not good enough for him. As has been posted here recently, even the Dalai Lama himself flies commercial airliners, and not even first class! To say he is a mataterialistic greedy pig with an overinflated opinion of his self-worth is a gross understatement. I don't know how he can live with himself, being such a scrounge from other people and constantly having to beg their money off them. The man must have zero shame or conscience. No wonder he can live the hedonistic lifestyle he does, not giving a damn who he hurts in the process.

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 03:38:23 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Joy Subject: How Does He Dare Presume He Deserves This? Message:

Yeah, he's so blatant about it--like a dictator of some third world country living large while his constituents live in slums. I mean, it's just nuts. He just loves his stuff, his shiny expensive stuff. People who earn their stuff I have no problem with. But he wants this stuff just for being HIM, and that's a dumb reason!

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 04:53:52 (GMT) From: Joy Email: None To: Helen Subject: How Does He Dare Presume He Deserves This? Message:

Yeah, and on top of that, he has to beg people for it. Can you imagine what that must be like, to have to constantly convince people to give you tons of money and then go around buying outrageously expensive stuff with it? Like a kid begging their parent incessantly for a new expensive toy until the parent relents and gives in and buys it. It's so degrading to have to do that, morally degrading. At least people who earn their expensive toys have a certain amount of dignity. There's no dignity in what he's doing. The fact that he prances around in this jet at other people's expense, and still asks for even more money, with the very flimsy excuse of 'his work' or some such other nonsense, is just obscene, in my opinion.

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 15:58:56 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Joy Subject: How Does He Dare Presume He Deserves This? Message:

He probably doesn't feel degraded about it, like you or I would!He feels he deserves it, for some crazy reason! He's really off his nut, IMO. Narcissistic to such a degree that you or I, and other people with dignity, cannot fathom!

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 20:32:59 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Everyone Subject: MAHARAJI why You made us ADORE YOU? Message:

I need to hear a premie explain this to me. What is the REAL reason to need to adore him? If maharaji is not GOD, why he needs its followers adoration? WHY MAHARAJI?? Really, what happens is that he 'plays' GOD in your life and even that is a fake GOD premies like it. I remember thinking who cares who he is I like....and a premie atributtes to HIM whatever, I repeat, whatever good experience they feel, not understanding or remembering who they used to be when they really free, before meeting maharaji. Oh yes, he transform people and since day one tells them one has to be grateful, that you can transform all the waters of the Earth to ink and blablabla...and the glory of the GURU couldn't be described. And folks, is yours really a relationship of real love you have with chachashi, of course not.You see premies, sooner or later you are going to have to hear YOU, because YOUR heart will continue pounding, making you feel uncomfortable, even when he is present, and then you realize taht 'regular' folks are nice, in fact VERY nice loving people, and taht it reflects in their lives and all around them. Who lies then? SHOULD you feel obliged to HIM forever, a plastic God, a miserable human being who has not many human qualities developed because he still act like a spoild brat kid, kind of mean too, kind of bossy, kind of rotten, and you know how the saying goes: 'If it was like a duck, smells like one, etc. IT MUST BE A DUCK' so, where your intelligence gets in? Don't YOU get it? Is he a healthy person? No. He is not GOD. Why adore him? If it's true that ALL what humans need is inside of us why develop a extrange relationship with the guru. Is a gift, eh? Please!! What a fish. You have denied yourselves the right to be a real, REAL human being to become a cult memeber, to adore the idol, and he holds the key of your jail and you smile at him, thanking him, tears of joy for have him jailed, forever (?). Total insanity. He has such a power over people,transforms them in puppets who LONG for the master, the one that won't let go, the one that doesn't want them free because now he is greedy enough to have forgotten that what he wanted originally was to help people free themselves. His K became a venom and slowly killed many emotionally., people taht cannot love their family too much, preocupied developing a realationship with an imaginary friend. Free the premies, YOU. dark one, oppressor one. I detest your littleness. I believed you were GREAT, only because you kept repeating every so often, but maharaji, your voice is gone and I had my own, and you are just a piece of discompossed shit. My friend taht I saw a while a go, you bastrad, I gave him just few years to die in your hands; he's an alcoholic, he acts irrational, always tired and depressed, sick, he won't eat or respect his body even a little. You are shit maharaji, you truly are a total pile of shit! (Sorry real kids for my foul language, but some things only have one name.)

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 21:02:34 (GMT) From: Disculta Email: None To: SB Subject: Expresate amiga! nt Message:

adgiofg

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 21:20:06 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: Disculta Subject: Expresate amiga! tenia que decirlo Message:

Hablas espańol?

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 01:21:50 (GMT) From: Disculta Email: None To: sb Subject: Claro que si Message:

aunque no tengo ni acentos ni tildes en mi computadora (or no se usarlos). Si, hablo espanol. Maharaji me mando a espana y sudamerica en 1973-4. Viaje con Sulakshna, traduciendo. Fui a Argentina. Tal vez te conozco (note el 'vos sos' que me dice que eres una 'che!'). Me llamaba entonces Katie Jones. Leo tos 'posts' con much carino, y me di cuenta que eras latina. Prepare a mucha gente para recibir el conocimiento, y di muchisimo satsang en esos paises. Estoy aqui para equilibrar mi karma :––). Amor y paz, Katie Darling

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Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 04:22:52 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: Disculta Subject: Claro que si Message:

sos rubia? Creo que recuerdo tu cara, sos alta, tenias pelo largo, lacio, no? Oh my, the rounds one gives...hahahha Yo era/soy alta, ojos verdes, pelo castańo largo, y siempre tenia una cara boludisima! hahahhaa

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 01:18:12 (GMT) From: Mercedes Email: None To: sb Subject: Expresate amiga! tenia que decirlo Message:

Gracias SB, yo tambien hablo espańol. Un abrazo grandotote Mercedes

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 02:38:59 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: Mercedes Subject: Expresate amiga! tenia que decirlo Message:

pero no sos Disculta, no? Leiste el mensaje del instructor? Un abrazote para vos tambien! Me pregunto si nos conocemos. Yo soy de BA. Recibi el c con sulekshna Bai. Vos? chau, SB

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 16:40:58 (GMT) From: Mercedes Email: None To: sb Subject: Yo soy de... Message:

...Mar del Plata y recibi el conocimiento tambien con Sulakshna. No soy Disculta. Mi sobrenombre es Meme. Un abrazote, Mercedes

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 16:56:55 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: Mercedes Subject: Tendriamos Message:

que hablar de esta manera en el FORO, ya que ahi no pasa nada, para que los premies vean que es posible ser feliz sin el. Y que no es necesario tener miedo de hablar. Es beneficiario. No permite sanr la mente. chau

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 16:55:15 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Mercedes Subject: Yo soy de... Message:

Ahi es donde escuche satsang por primera vez. Fui con Guillermo Vilas y su mejor amigo. Estoy segura te conozco... nunca olvido caras. Me gustaria mandarte una foto por email pero yo no doy mi direccion aca, por razones obvias. Pero si escribes un email a Brian, en el foro espańol el te dara mi direccion. Puedes pastear este mensaje (el lee espańol bien) y el te la dara. Seria lindo. Hermanas perdidas... hahahha en realidad hay solo UNA familia. No? Pero seria divertido! Mi amor para ti, SB

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:51:40 (GMT) From: Fatman. Email: None To: SB Subject: No te fies hasta que veas su foto (st/nt). Message:

a

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:43:02 (GMT) From: right Email: None To: Fatman. Subject: thanks Message:

I know she is a ex-premie. You cannot tell? thanks. :) sb

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 18:53:22 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Prempal Subject: Why do you hide your father away? Message:

'Meditate on the Guru, have faith in his Name. Keep his lotus feet in your heart. Always regard him as God incarnate. Make no mistake about it, without Guru there is no salvation.' -Shri Hans Click here to continue this discourse. Prempal, why do you contradict your own Master?

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 21:39:05 (GMT) From: Gary Epton Email: None To: Way Subject: Why do you hide your father away? Message:

Well even Papa Ji makes this contradictory statement in the same discourse: 'Will you surrender your body, mind and wealth to me?' 'In this Age, Guru Maharaj Ji is freely distributing the Holy Name and is not asking for any remuneration,' However, from reading this satsang it is quite evident where maha got his 'shtick' from . . . he was brainwashed like the rest of us.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 02:16:45 (GMT) From: Bob Email: None To: way Subject: it does sound more sexy Message:

No matter what, it might be just adolescent memory, but it sounds so much more powerful than the blabbering of 'our ' guru.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 16:02:33 (GMT) From: creativejani Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Ode to M -'Serves him right, the tide is turning.. Message:

Ode to Miragey Serves him right, the tide is turning The internet has let me see That what he says and does are different, one rule for him , one rule for me. techniques of knowledge aren't a secret, Yoga teachers teach them too. It's just that they don't say they're perfect And don't demand your life from you. What a shame to find he's lying Has no clue about the path (I helped to buy the plane he's flying and the guy's gold plated bath!)(and toilet!) Bye bye premies, see ya later Hope you'll look around this site Take your time and contemplate a life of freedom and delight. We'll be here to talk to you and when you find you've had enough Of boring trainings, video sessions and all his sh*te mind-numbing stuff The love you thought he represented will still be there inside of you Don't be sad, he's just demented A rather drunk, sad Fatguru So let's all raise a glass of cognac to the truth about our former lord and thank the ones who've told their story So sanity could be restored. Tchau everyone, may the love and light of self-respect be always your guide...

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:51:11 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: creativejani Subject: good poem! aughhh Message:

What a trip. Nice to see you inspired. hahahahaha so much fun to be free from Rat :)

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 15:48:31 (GMT) From: creativejani Email: None To: sb Subject: thanks!...thoughts on creativity and god... Message:

You know sb, I never could give up my love of being creative to surrender to mr rawatt and move into an ashram! I guess I have my own natural genius to thank for saving me from the worst excesses of fatguru...When we're being creative and having fun we're close to God, IMO, which is presumably why m made all ashram premies do service that allowed none of their talents any chance of expression - might have realised they didn't actually need him to be happy! Talk to you soon! (And thanks for the recognition!)

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Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 05:09:04 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: creativejani Subject: thanks!...thoughts on creativity and god... Message:

good for you! many of us didn't keep taht. Is coming back to me. My boyfriend is an Graphic Designer and I'm having fun working with him. I didn't live in an ashram, thanks god! LOL take care, sb

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 08:45:11 (GMT) From: clh Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Got scared by 'Generasl Mayhem''s post in thread Message:

'Lets do something creative', started by Creativejani, below. It sounds like he's considering/advocating violence to disrupt some new type of event m's doing for new prospects. When I was heavily involved, back in the early or mid 70's, it wasn't exes who protested about him. It was Jesus freaks, hari krisners, etc. There was an event in Miami, I don't remember if a holi, a guru puja or what. I was doing security - I think it was '75 - and we were trying to contain and fend off about 30-50 Jesus people. They started throwing rocks and a little boy got hit in the eye and blinded. (Not permanently, I understood; but I don't really know.) I don't want to participate in something that could easily get out of control and turn a protest into physical abuse like that, or worse. Please, anyone who does try anything disruptive, think it thru several times FIRST and make sure it can't turn into violence. Or how is such an ex better than the worst vision of m ever posted here, if that kind of risk to others, who are given no say in it, doesn't matter? I know this is a place to blow off steam. Maybe that's all General Mayhem was doing. But those words, by a guy/gal with that handle, really spooked me.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 00:06:59 (GMT) From: General Mayhem Email: None To: clh Subject: What are you afraid of? Message:

I'm going to give Maharaji the publicity he deserves. You guys are all talk. I don't talk, I just do. It's easy. My spam engine is at the ready. Everyone on the internet can know about Maharaji's events. Where's the danger in that? I just want to help spread Maharaji's message. That's all any premie wants to do, isn't it. I'll do it for free and won't take any credit. Or do you guys just want to talk and talk and talk... and get nowhere.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 01:35:59 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: General Mayhem Subject: read Katie's post below says it all Message:

sheesh did you rent Boondock Saints last night too?

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 01:43:22 (GMT) From: General Mayhem Email: None To: Selene Subject: Not interested Message:

Sorry but I don't need to take advice from anyone here.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 01:59:33 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: General Mayhem Subject: it wasn't advice ever heard of Message:

redirect? I'm sure you have what with your amazing spam machine and all, yeah you and hundreds of thousands of CS students. I thought she said it well, I was pointing to it but since you think it was advice, well then let me reword my post you don't inspire credibility.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 02:15:02 (GMT) From: General Mayhem Email: None To: Selene Subject: That's a good one Message:

I'm not looking to inspire anything. If you think my few words posted here seem un-credible then that's your reading on the matter. If you have a newsreader, take a look at any newsgroup with the word 'religion' in it over the next few hours. There are many more relevant filters that come to mind. The strongest force against Maharaji is not here but out there. But you have to reach them somehow. Usenet is a good way.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:03:19 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: General Mayhem Subject: Oh, I think I know who you are, GM Message:

And you aren't a violent person in the least, if I'm correct. IMHO, spamming newsgroups makes people mad though - they usually want to stay on topic, and are sick of messages that don't relate to their particular niche on Usegroup. Take care, Katie

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:16:37 (GMT) From: General Mayhem Email: None To: Katie Subject: Nobody is angry Message:

I'm not spamming just any newsgroups but only the ones that are relevant. If you read my newsgroup posts, you'll see it's a polite message. A lot of new people are visiting my site because of this and are reading. I think they're keen to know about how the boy god is doing now. I intend to make every single public event with Maharaji, known about and publicised. Perhaps I'll even build a mailing list of interested people. Then we can send out welcoming commitees to all the events. We need more people to welcome the fake god. The more people who come and welcome him, the more the press will become interested. This is my phase 3.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:46:15 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: General Mayhem Subject: Now you are talking Message:

I didn't understand you. :)

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 23:22:10 (GMT) From: General Mayhem Email: None To: sb Subject: I know Message:

Re-reading my own posts, I see they can be taken several ways.

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 12:55:06 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: General Mayhem Subject: I know Message:

I used to do that a lot, still now sometimes. No problem. So, you are a new ex or you were a regular here and changed your nick? Just curious. Enjoy freedom BRO/SIS, SB

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 18:27:47 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: General Mayhem Subject: Nobody is angry - good. Message:

I did read your newsgroup post and it was very polite (that's how I guessed who you were! And that you weren't a rock thrower!). Your post did get deleted by some spam filters though - but I guess that's par for the course. Glad you are getting visits to your site. Take care, Katie

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 19:02:01 (GMT) From: General Mayhem Email: None To: Katie Subject: On the move Message:

I know - I do get a little bit hot sometimes but that's me when I'm movin'.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 02:36:00 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: General Mayhem Subject: not interested Message:

I'm not intersted in advice from any one here unless I ask . XOXOXO

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 19:14:17 (GMT) From: General Mayhem Email: None To: Selene Subject: She gives as good as she gets Message:

and you can't argue with that.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 23:35:30 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: General Mayhem Subject: why thank you :) Message:

I guess I misinterpreted you last nite. I'm sorry.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 16:50:39 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: clh Subject: Another Protest Message:

I don't know if this was the same event (this is the first time I ever heard of 'Jesus People' being violent at a DLM event (although those people at Millennium were awfully LOUD). I do remember there was a protest by Orthodox Jews saying that Maharaji had brainwashed a large number of Jewish young people into his cult. They just picketed and handed out leaflets, they weren't violent, but I remember it made the local news. I think they also portested a few years later in Miami Beach, not at a program, but in front of one of the hotels that premies were living in. Again, that made the local news.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 19:27:55 (GMT) From: clh Email: None To: Joe Subject: Another Protest Message:

Different event. Being a bit of a Bible buff, I was trying to defuse stuff with 1 of them by showing how Christ would n't aprove of their protest and how he revealed k. I was an arrogant snot in those days. Well, can't claim a lot of humility now, but at least I've mellowed some...

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 16:37:05 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: clh Subject: Question CLH Message:

I was at a very small Holi in Miami in 75, a predecessor to the extravanzas they later became. This one was at Cape Florida/Bill Baggs State park at the tip of Key Biscayne. It was really small. Later, in the evening or the next day, they had a satsang with the guru at Miami Edison Senior High. This was Premlata/Wadi's first public appearance. She would have been only a few weeks old. Holi was on Good Friday ( I recall that as my stepfather was appalled that Rawat held a festival on Good Friday ) and Premlata was born in March. So she was a very young baby, they just brought her out on the stage for a moment to show her off. I recall being very touched by that...I have always loved babies. Was it that Holi? I think they skipped Holi in 76, so the next Miami one would have been 77. I think the 75 one was the first North American Holi. I could be wrong but I think I am right!

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 19:33:00 (GMT) From: clh Email: None To: Susan Subject: Question CLH Message:

No. It may not have been a Holi. I did a lot of drugs for a number of years later on, and my memories as to chronology of events suffered. I don't think I was at the Holi you describe. I was at 1 in a park in 74. But he spoke at a national guard armory that night.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 19:47:58 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: clh Subject: could have been then Message:

I wasn't around in 74, but I do recall going to a Knowldge selection, in Miami, at a national guard armory in 75 at that same holi. Jagdeo was the selector. He selected a 15 year old friend of mine actually.....

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 15:12:18 (GMT) From: Katie H. Email: None To: clh Subject: I agree with you, clh Message:

And I'm wary of anyone who suggests 'direct action' without using their real name, or otherwise identifying themselves. In the past, a few premies have made posts like this in order to discredit the ex-premies who post on this forum - I feel that this should be kept in mind. IMHO the best 'action' is to be open and honest about the reasons why we are ex-premies, and to publicize the ex-premie websites as much as possible. Anyone that is a current premie has already been subjected to coercive tactics in the extreme - I think that just letting people know we are here and letting them make up their own minds is the way to go. Take care, Katie

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 17:07:05 (GMT) From: Disculta Email: None To: Katie H. Subject: Hear hear katie nt Message:

apodigh

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 15:00:57 (GMT) From: creativejani Email: None To: clh Subject: Got scared by 'Generasl Mayhem''s post in thread Message:

I agree, the only action I think that would be beneficial is legal action, or a support group. I am going to the meeting in London just out of interest, to see what they are telling premies and to see through recently opened ex-premie's eyes. I would never do anything confrontational because that just makes everyone defensive and you get put into some 'loony' or enemy pigeon-hole, which isn't helpful. Trying to get people to change their thought patterns and open their minds to the evidence here in these forums is a delicate business and should be conducted with love and sensitivity, IMO. The love and sensitivity we all (I) thought M represented and were so sadly mistaken about. I hope General Mayhem isn't going to descend to such a level that anyone might get hurt. That's pointless and counter-productive and illegal!

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 21:16:45 (GMT) From: Ulf Email: None To: creativejani Subject: Got scared by 'Generasl Mayhem''s post in thread Message:

Yes Janet i think you are right There is no need to hurt the premies they allready have been hurt to much But what about M????? If you someday are walking on your way home , on a dark night ,, all on your own,,,, and you meet him ,,????? What will you do ??? Tell him about where he did go wrong ???? Come on,,,,, Peace on earth Ulf

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 16:51:51 (GMT) From: creativejani Email: None To: Ulf Subject: Dark night... Message:

I think I'd ask him why he didn't do anything about Jagdeo when he knew he was abusing children. That's a start, anyway. I don't know what happened to him when he was growing up, but love and not confrontation is generally better at getting people to revise their position. By love I don't mean the misguided adoration of premies for their master, I mean acting from the highest motives and not being judgmental. Practising some of the things he's preached over the years, in other words.

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 02:33:40 (GMT) From: Dr. Crypto-nite Email: None To: ULF Subject: Dark night.= Dark Knight = sir dave (nt) Message:

shnorfle

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 09:26:10 (GMT) From: Moldy Warp Email: None To: clh Subject: Yeh clh... Any action should be non-violent direct Message:

action... I guess that's up to individuals. Peaceful protest is one thing... but agro and stuff would be disasterous.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 19:41:14 (GMT) From: clh Email: None To: Moldy Warp Subject: Yeh clh... Any action should be non-violent direct Message:

Thanks, you guys. I'm new here, and my take was that the exes here all seemed pretty rational, aside from some heavy bitterness here and there (which is understandable). Yeah, there was bashing and flaming. But nothing nuts. Hopefully this guy was just talk, or this thread will wake him/her up. Anyway, your responses help me feel better.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 08:18:05 (GMT) From: Jodie Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Jagdeo - and Abi Message:

I have just lost my message - I am Abi's Mum and want to express my disgust and outrage at the abuse she suffered from Jagdeo at Wringford Manor in 1976. As parents we were unaware of the practises of paedaphiles and innocently let out children 'play games' along with Jagdeo, thinking this was a blessing for them. When he selected Abi to 'play chess' with him alone, we thought how wonderful for her. Abi did not confide in me then what happend but tried to get her brother Ivan to tell me that Jagdeo fancied her. I dont even remember him telling me as was so niave and 'blissed out' by the honour that it never once crossed anyone's mind that anything could be seriously amiss. I am of the opinion that Elan Vital and Maharaji should take full responsibility for this man's action for justice must be done to recompense and acknowledge the abuse, to all those kids who have gone through such disgusting encounters. They should openly acknowledge what has occurred and offer compensation to all individuals who have come forward. Unless they do this the movement will be forever sullied and conflicts will only remain and this affair will never go away. It has to be openly acknowledged. They need to ask forgiveness not the victims..... They need to come to terms with the affair, not the victims.... I will continue to support my daughter in her fight for justice in whatever way is possible for me. I am very proud of her in that way she has battled for years with her scars from the experience and the way she picks herself up and carries on, when she is exhausted and fragile. I will always support my daughter whatever it takes, for, surely it is I who are to take some responsibility, the premies in that ashram, Divine Light Mission but ultimately it is always the head of an organisation that bears the utmost responsbility and that is Maharaji.

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 20:38:12 (GMT) From: Joy Email: None To: Jodie Subject: Here's some info for you Jodie Message:

Dear Jodie, Thank you for posting here. I am so sorry for what has happened to you and Abi from the horrible person known as Jagdeo (and his even more horrible guru). I, too, was a blissful devotee at that time and used to even cook for Mahatma Jagdeo, completely oblivious of his perverted nature. Anyhow, I would like to call your attention to some information which was presented in the Faith and Fear: Children of Krishna TV show which was broadcast the other night on KCTS in Seattle. Hopefully this will soon be broadcast in your area on public TV. I spoke with KCTS Channel 9 store today and they told me there will probably be a video available of this show in about a month's time, and to keep checking back; their phone number is 1-800-937-5387. (But are you in England?? You may still be able to purchase and view the video though, some UK VCR's will play the US format.) Also, on the KCTS website (kcts.org), there is some information about a lawsuit which some children who grew up in the Hare Krishna cult and were sexually abused in their school system are making against the group. They are seeking $400 million and if they are successful it will bankrupt ISKCON and open up the way for other groups to be successfully sued (including Divine Light Mission/Guru Maharaji, hopefully!!). If you would or anybody else would like to read about that, go to the KCTS web site (kcts.org), then click Primetime, then KCTS Connects, and show 283. There was a link there to some testimonials from sexually abused children of the Krishna cult which looked pretty interesting, as well as info on the Turley lawsuit (Turley is the Texas attorney they are using). Best of luck to you, Jodie and I hope you and Abi (and Susan and any others) can recover tens of millions from Maharaji also and bankrupt him into oblivion where he belongs. Take care, Joy

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 04:04:48 (GMT) From: Gary Epton Email: epton@hotmail.com To: Jodie, Abi Subject: This Point is Worth Repeating Message:

They are seeking $400 million and if they are successful it will bankrupt ISKCON and open up the way for other groups to be successfully sued Sorry Abi and Jodie but it is starting to seem clearer why M and company are avoiding this issue like the plague. Jagdeo and possibly other sexually abusive mahatmas/initiators are indeed M's financial achilles' heel. There was no excuse for M not dealing responsibly with Jagdeo when the abuse first surfaced. And there is certainly no excuse for M not to have personally contacted Abi to apologize and offer reparations. Now, as a result of his lack of action and neglected responsibility, (not to mention a deficit of basic human decency)I think it is best to launch a lawsuit against M and his agents. There must be thousands of lawyers willing to take this on a percentage of damages basis, especially considering the numbers that ISKCON is potentially liable for. It might also be advisable to consider a class-action lawsuit, if you are networking with or know of other child-abuse victims of the cult. My sympathies, Gary Epton

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 15:46:29 (GMT) From: Joy Email: None To: Gary Epton Subject: Time to Sue! Message:

That's right, Gary. If Abi and Susan are willing to take this on, this would seem like the time to contact Mr. Turley. Perhaps someone from here could help them coordinate it (I'm not suggesting myself -- too busy -- but what about Joe? Michael Dettmers? Marianne? Somebody really responsible and familiar with the legal world.) It would be so excellent to add our voice alongside this well publicized lawsuit and it would generate oodles of the right kind of publicity for M. Go girls!

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 19:01:52 (GMT) From: Michael Dettmers Email: dettmers@gylanix.com To: Jodie Subject: Jagdeo - and Abi Message:

Dear Jodie, Thanks for speaking out. If any situation reflects the tunnel vision that is produced by “cult-think,” this is it. Cult-think produces an “us against the world” mentality. This myopia blinds cult members and their leaders alike from recognizing legitimate concerns and reasonable questions posed by those inside and outside of the cult. Every accusation, however grounded, is viewed as an attack and a threat by a hostile world bent on their destruction. Nothing epitomizes this condition more than the way Maharaji and Élan Vital have so far mishandled the Jagdeo matter. Not only is their behavior morally and ethically reprehensible but also, from a public relations point of view, their response to date has been incredibly stupid. Whatever they may ultimately do about this situation, it is too late to undo to public relations fiasco they have brought upon themselves. I can’t imagine anyone who knows the facts becoming involved with such a disreputable leader and his organization. Their pathetic attempt to deflect responsibility by invoking the supposed legal separation between Maharaji and Élan Vital is ludicrous. Do they think we are idiots? They are simply demonstrating how fearful and out of touch with reality they are. Maharaji always reserved the right to declare who is and is not an instructor for himself, and there are plenty of people who can testify to that fact. Would they have us believe that Jagdeo was traveling around the world on his own behalf with his own money? Who made him a mahatma? Whose knowledge was he supposed to be spreading? What was the context that enabled him to be in contact with so many children? Why did you and other parents feel it was safe and beneficial for your children to be left alone with Maharaji’s mahatmas? Who paid for his food, travel and support? And who sponsored him and secured his visas? Although Élan Vital claims to have conducted a thorough investigation, it appears, until recently at least, that they never interviewed any of Jagdeo’s victims. And they left it up to Deepak Raj Bhandari, the national organizer in India, to question Jagdeo. Clearly, Maharaji should have interviewed Jagdeo. Why would Jagdeo admit his crimes to an Élan Vital official he hardly even knows? Maharaji, on the other hand, was the person he proclaimed as his lord and master. I doubt that he would have denied his guilt if he were personally confronted with the evidence by Maharaji. Yet, by not interviewing Jagdeo, Maharaji departed from his normal practice of personally disciplining mahatmas who committed lesser, but nonetheless serious, offences. I don’t believe, however, the suggestion by some that Maharaji did not confront Jagdeo because he was afraid of him, or that he had something on Maharaji. There were many mahatmas from whom Maharaji hid his x-rated lifestyle, including Jagdeo. He did so, not because he was afraid of them, but simply because he was not comfortable enough to allow them to witness behavior that was so at odds with what he preached. I am convinced that the reason Maharaji did not interview Jagdeo is because, given the nature of the accusations against him, he was advised by his lawyers to distance himself from his former agent. A real Master, if such a one exists, must be a warrior when standing up for the truth. When it really counts, however, Maharaji has shown that he is a coward. I characterized him as such when he failed to respond to Susan’s efforts to have him address this situation last July, and it appears that nothing fundamentally has changed since then. He continues to demonstrate that he is more interested in protecting his “ass”ets than he is in doing what is right. In the end, his efforts to avoid any responsibility in this matter will fail. He continues to lose the love and respect of so many people who were once inspired to help him further his mission. People of conscience will not let go of this issue until he publicly apologizes for the crimes Jagdeo committed while in his service, until he seeks out and compensates all of Jagdeo’s victims, and until he does whatever is necessary to bring Jagdeo to justice. Michael

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 01:19:36 (GMT) From: Tim G Email: None To: Jodie Subject: Jagdeo - and Abi Message:

A warm round of applause to you and your daughter for bravery and perserverance. Mr Rawat must be made accountable along with his 'Mahatma' (Great Soul!) If it was my daughter I just don't know how I would contain my anger. Certainly persuing an apology and a settlement is 100% correct. Blaming yourself is not, despite our human tendency to do so. I posted below and feel that I didn't applaud you enough for the steps that you are taking...of course it doesn't preclude seizing the day and being open to those stray ineffable moments that come when we least expect them Best to you Tim

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 21:06:23 (GMT) From: creativejani Email: None To: Jodie Subject: Jagdeo - and Abi - we're all here for you! Message:

Hi Jodie, like several others in this thread it was Abi's story that really opened my eyes to the real miragey and changed me from a (not very committed) premie to an ex-premie, in the time it took me to read the account (only about two weeks ago). Thank you for being brave enough to speak out and help me wake up to reality -you telling the truth has set others free! I believe the law is the only way to get anywhere, but perhaps a peaceful protest outside any events with placards asking some pertinent questions would put this issue into the minds of many more people and start a real move towards stopping M continuing to lead people up the garden path. Arguing about whether he's claimed to be God or not isn't going to interest alot of people, but seeing him implicated in child abuse is. He's no example to follow, and should be forced to face up to his responsibility for allowing this to continue. Fighting a compensation claim may well help him focus on his true role in the lives of many of his followers - and reveal him to the world as a very far from 'perfect master' who cares for no-one but himself. Abi and the others who have suffered in this way must get the satisfaction of having their pain acknowleged by the world at large and be awarded compensation. The nasty secrets of miragey's world are gradually being exposed to the light of reason and will save others making the same mistake of trusting his words - now we can see that all power corrupts, and abolute power corrupts absolutley. Best wishes to you both.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 20:05:37 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Jodie Subject: Welcome Jodie... Message:

Dear Jodie, Everyone has said so much in support of you but I want to add my thoughts. When I first saw this website it was the Jagdeo issue that convinced me that Maharaji's nothing but a self-serving liar and a conman. I'm not a parent, but I am a survivor of child sexual abuse by my father and other adult males in my family. I can tell you from the viewpoint of an adult survivor that the support you are giving Abie is invaluable to her healing process. I understand what it feels like to be afraid to tell. I also now understand how difficult it was for my own Mother when I told her about the abuse 10 years ago. She was infuriated! She blamed herself. Yet, she validated that my memories of my abuse took place--not only because she believed me, but because she was able to recall certain behaviors of mine that should have been red flags. I don't blame her anymore for not seeing what was going on. In my Mother's case, (with all five of her daughters) there was also extraordinary other abuses happening everyday. Public awareness was very different back when, i.e., the 50s, 60s and 70s. Sexual abuse wasn't discussed and most people uninformed. Incest/child sexual abuse is not the taboo (it happens all the time); telling and talking about it is. Mix that together with a powerful authority figure like Maharaji, blind worship and trust in him, plus Jagdeo (an his particular pedophilic MO) what red flags would you have looked for? I must emphasize to you that whatever you couldn't do for Abie back then, you certainly are doing the right thing for her now. You have a lot to be proud of in Abie and yourself. This must be a very difficult time for you. Don't blame yourself, too much. The blame lies entirely upon Jagdeo, first, for his heinous abuse of power, and most certainly Maharaji who I completely believe knew about this from the first report. I also wonder about Marolyn, because Judy Osborne was her midwife. I really wonder about what Marolyn knew. That Maharaji has done nothing to acknowledge and compensate the victims of Jagdeo (and I'm sure there are many) is beyond the pale. It's criminal! Until Maharaji does something personally as the leader of EV, this issue is not resolved for me. I refuse to give up because I know what it feels like to be so wounded as a child. It's life damaging. Abie is very fortunate to have you. I respect very much that you came here, Jodie. I can say for sure you will have all of my support and that of the other exes here. You are doing the right thing. Take care of yourself, be well, and much love to Abie, Cynthia J. Gracie

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 19:21:19 (GMT) From: suchabanana Email: None To: Jodie Subject: Hello, Jodie - DLM and miragey were informed of it Message:

Dear Jodie, DLM and miragey were informed of concerns about Jagdeo's behaviour with premie children, and they did nothing to stop him or intercede on behalf of the victims; instead, they coddled Jagdeo, enabling him to perpetuate his sickness on others -- by protecting him and covering up the matter and thereupon stonewalling the victims' families. People who had heard about Jagdeo's so-called 'knowledge sessions' with children at the Unity School in Denver in the mid-1970s told me it was all the buzz among the premies, r.e. mahatmaji taking the kids into a room and closing the door and turning off the lights, and doing some kind of junior kn thing with the children - that DLM knew [IHQ was located right there, after all], and that miragey had allegedly been informed about the matter and just told Jagdeo to stop doing the sessions. [I don't know whether m. was actually apprised back then of the criminal allegations.] That's the extent of what I heard about it at that time. However, you've probably seen all the other letters and stuff about the situation posted on the internet by now - here and at some other related sites. If they were honourable people, m. and his DLM/EVI officials would have handed Jagdeo over to the proper authorities, apologized to the families, and made some restitution in the form of a monetary settlement, as well as paying for counselling for those affected. On the contrary, m. and DLM/EVI's handling of this and other serious matters constitutes a reprehensible pattern of cheat and deceit and a callous disregard for how other human beings are treated. The cumulative m. cult abuses and cheat and deceit that have been essentially institutionalized [much of which is documented at this site] are clearly incompatible with m.'s alleged mission and the various inflated representations made about [and by] him; in fact, the inappropriate behaviours, misrepresentations and insufficient responses exhibited by m. and DLM/EVI have eradicated whatever illusionary vestige of credibility, respectability or integrity the whole mission might once have had. Naturally, there are parallels with the abuses of other cults - what David Khoresh did with the Branch Davidian children, the Scientology scandals and lawsuits, Sai Baba's predilection for boys, the Rajneesh scandals, Jim Jones' abuse of girls, Mormon abuses of teenaged girls, Catholic priests who have preyed upon young altar boys, etc. For most of my childhood, I was an abused kid. In spite of my best efforts during the many years since to forgive - but more importantly to overcome the resulting traumas which impaired my ability to be happy and to relate and deal effectively with this world, I still retain some emotional scars and, of course, the painful memories of the abuse and violence that were routinely inflicted on a helpless little kid. Accordingly, I truly hope everything works out well for your family, especially Abi. lots of Love, da lil' swami

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 15:36:20 (GMT) From: Connie Email: None To: Jodie Subject: Welcome and thank you Message:

Hi Jodie I have been out of the cult for a few months, and it was reading about Jagdeo's abuses that played a big part. I felt very strongly that, as a premie who was actively involved, I had some responsibility for what went on, and could no longer support or excuse in any way such a man who allowed these things to happen and then tried to cover them up, or his organization. I sincerely admire your courage in accepting some responsibility, and agree wholeheartedly that those premies and EV (DLM) share some as well. And yes, ultimately m bears full responsibility for the distgusting abuses that have gone on in his name by his officials. If I was one of those children at Wringford Manor in '76, in the circumstances, sadly so public, I am sure a parent's disgust, outrage and support voiced loudly would be very meaningful and give me emotional strength. Take care.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 15:26:11 (GMT) From: Mercedes Email: None To: Jodie Subject: Hi Jodie Message:

Welcome, I am so glad you are supporting Abi in all this, I have missed her and hope she is okay. I don't know what else to say that has not been said already very elocuently by the others. So I extend to you a warm and kind welcome. Mercedes

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 14:58:26 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: Jodie Subject: Jagdeo - and Abi Message:

Dear Jodie - Thanks very much for posting - I hope you are all right. A friend of mine recently found out that both her children were abused when they were younger (in a non-Maharaji-related situation). She, like you, was innocent and trusting, and had no idea that anything was going on. As a result, she's had to reconsider many things in her life, and accept that fact that her children were, and are, damaged by this abuse, and that she did not protect them when they needed it. It's agonizing for her, and it is difficult for her children to understand that she really was not aware of the abuse at the time it took place. It helps very much though, that she has acknowledged what happened and is supportive of them. It makes me very angry that the trust we were *asked* to have in Maharaji and his messengers was betrayed like this. It's even worse that the innocence of young children was destroyed with our tacit complicity. Several people on this forum have said that they heard rumors about Jagdeo's abuse of children but did not do anything because they assumed that 'Maharaji would take care of it'. In a way, we are all responsible because of our ignorance and misplaced trust in Maharaji. But that doesn't diminish the fact that Maharaji needs to address this issue and do something about the situation - I feel certain that there are other children out there who were abused by Jagdeo and who need acknowledgement and help. Thankfully, because of the bravery and integrity of your daughter and Susan, Maharaji and his organization can no longer deny that the abuse happened. But they have failed, and continue to fail, to publically address this issue in a way that could help the victims. Writing the above post cannot have been easy for you, and I appreciate it very much. Your words are another reminder to Maharaji that this issue is just not going to go away. In fact, the story of Jagdeo's abuse of children is going to remain the top story on ex-premie.org's home page until Maharaji deals with it in a way that is satisfactory to the victims. Take care, Katie

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 14:52:21 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Jodie Subject: thank you Jodie Message:

I want to thank you for making that post and offer my support. I have tremendous respect for your daughter, you must be so proud of her. I have taken some time away from this board because I felt it was making my past too big a part of my present. It also is just plain hard, and sometimes seems futile, to try to get the cult to deal with this. But I do 'lurk' daily, and your post means a lot. Abi is a strong amazing woman, and I hope my own daughter grows up with her strength, courage and character. Also, one of the most healing things you can do as a mom is just what you have done, get mad and say it loud. I am sure the little girl that has grown into that strong woman hears her mom's anger and that acknowldgement of what happened and how wrong it was will help Abi.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 15:56:52 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: jodie Subject: also Message:

In Miami I recall well the reverance with which Jagdeo was treated. I also observed him to select girls to be his special devotees. He would single out a girl as being an old soul or spiritually advanced and gifted. He would then sort of take the girl on as a spiritual project, he, as the Mahatma, would sort of tutor the girl, with private knowledge reviews, spiritual lessons etc. I guess what I am saying is my guess is that this is how it was with Abi. This was Jagdeo's modus operandi. Now lets look at the adults in the cult. Generally, they believed Maharaji was Satguru, Perfect Master, Superior Power in Person, you are my Lord my all to me. Maharaj Ji had sent out Mahatma Jagdeo to spread his precious knowledge. Maharaj ji was supposedly if not entirely infallible at least spiritually infallible. Thus Jagdeo was in a HUGE postion of trust. And he was abusing in the guise of spiritual mentoring. He was taking girls who were the mahatmas of the future who would as adults be the wise souls when DLM took over the world, Maharaj Ji brought world peace and we all lived in Divine Cities......and helping them to evolve spiritually. Or so the adults thought. You got sucked in to a cult. The cult think you believed sincerely, that is how your mama radar was so seriously off. Because to see what was happening, that Maharaj Ji's great soul was abusing your daughter, would have meant abandoning everything you had built your life around, and you would have had to have been able to jump from the way we all thought as premies to objectivity. I suppose I wanted to post this to help people understand how this happened, or what the 'con' was. There were two cons, Maharaj Ji's encouraging and allowing us to live our lives like the words of Arti. This allowed the misplaced trust. The second 'con' was Jagdeo's exploitation of con #1 ( we were followers of the living perfect master, Lord of the Universe, superior power in person ) and that he, Jagdeo, was an appointed great soul of the superior power in person, and that he, Jagdeo, sees in your child great spiritual potential. It was an honor to a parentin DLM to have a child who was a sort of 'chosen one', and an honor to have your child spend time with Jagdeo. Abi was hurt in the worst way, because you trusted Maharaj Ji, and Jagdeo. God that must hurt. I know as a parent myself I would wish so much I could have taken the pain myself, to spare my child. But you did not trust Maharaj ji and Jagdeo out of malice, you did it out of naivete, gullibility and a desire for a kinder better world.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 21:38:06 (GMT) From: Lesley Email: None To: Susan Subject: Clarity in a dark place Message:

Thanks, Susan, your wisdom touches all mothers and their daughters.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 11:16:32 (GMT) From: Sandy Email: None To: Jodie Subject: Hi Jodie Message:

Dear Jodie, Sorry to meet you under these circumstances, but good to meet you all the same. Thank you for speaking out about this from a point of view that is unique and only you can share, being Abi's Mum. The denials and cover-ups are as much a crime if not moreso, as the actions of Jagdeo himself. For those denials and cover-ups allowed him to repeat. I received Knowledge in 1978. I too would have been honored and all 'blissed out' if a mahatma had wanted to play chess or do anything with my kid. There would have been that unspoken thing of 'oh, your kid is such a high being' or 'your kid is a very old and enlightened soul'...I would not have questioned the private meeting for a second, due to the heavy holy thing being broadcast in words, tapes and printed matter about Maharaji and his entourage, how wholesome the whole thing was....photos of Wadi and Hansi in the magazines and seeing them onstage and all that. All my previous training from my folks to not trust folks you don't know well would have gone out the window in the face of a mahatma of the living perfect master who himself had babies. You take care and be well. I think all assembled here would have allowed our kids to be alone with a mahatma too. Responsibility lies with Jagdeo and whoever sent him and was responsible for seeing that he was fit to travel among the population. Sandy

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 12:32:52 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Jodie Subject: Hi Jodie Message:

Sandy: The denials and cover-ups are as much a crime if not more so, as the actions of Jagdeo himself. For those denials and cover-ups allowed him to repeat. Yes, the venal curs of the living lord smoothed the way for the abuse to continue. Censored minds and damaged hearts seeking only to pretend everything is fine. To deny the crime is to commission its repeat. And more -- the equivocations and cowardice of those people has forced the survivors of Jagdeo's abuse into the public spotlight where attempts are made to humiliate them and to attack their credibility. Jodie, you have a brave and wonderful daughter who I've seen stand up against the foulest and most depraved followers of 'Captain' Prempal Rawat of Malibu. She and Susan and others yet to come forward command our deepest respect and thanks.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 12:17:38 (GMT) From: Tim G Email: None To: Sandy Subject: Hi Jodie..Sandy says it all. Message:

Hi Jodie..welcome here. I think Sandy puts it very well...we would all have trusted a Mahatma of the Living Lord. Since those days I have learnt to be surprised by nothing.. the evil that exists within us and also the love. One resource that is not inexhaustible is our time (on this earth) and it gives an urgency to life. Attending to what is happening within and without, without judgement, keeps us in the present. Love blossoms by itself according to itself . So there is no need to sweep the past under the carpet but also no need to live there. Today with love could be a motto! Best to you and your daughter Tim

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 16:03:59 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Tim G Subject: Welcome and thank you Message:

Jodie, Thank you for sharing your very difficult story with us here. Everyone else has said it so well, so just one more thought. Please be comforted in the fact that many former followers of M, current premies and especially monitors representing Élan Vital and M will read what you have written. Your words do make a huge difference to those who would prefer to only think of M and his organization in a positive light. The story told by Susan, another of Jagdeo's victims, and the rejection she received from M and Élan Vital caused me to begin posting here some months ago. Your words shine a bright light on this issue. Richard

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 09:42:36 (GMT) From: Moldy Warp Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com To: Jodie Subject: Welcome Jodie Message:

I had a 3 year old daughter in 1976... the year I first went to satsang...If I had been in your position I would have done exactly the same as you... and been very honoured if a mahatma had wanted to play with her... not in my wildest dreams would I have EVER considered her to be at any risk.... such was the power of the cult. And yes. Rawat, as the head of DLM, and the one who, single-handedly, indoctrinated us, is personally responsible.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 09:20:15 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Jodie Subject: let me personally welcome you here for us all Message:

this is the only place we know of, where you will find longtime once-members, familiar with the entire operation, who wear no muzzles put on to dodge telling the facts, about maharaji, and everything that he surrounds himself with. if you feel comfortable speaking out, here, we encourage and endorse you to do so, as much as you want to. we are outraged at what went on, and what has NOT been done in the face of it.

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Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 09:15:34 (GMT) From: Jodie - Abi's Mum Email: None To: all who replied Subject: Huge thanks for all your wonderful support Message:

Dear everyone, I have never been on the net before so unused to the procedure. I have been away from the computer for a few days and was overwhelmed with your response to my message. It has really warmed my heart to feel so many people out there are aware of the problem and supporting each other. It wont go away until some justice is done. So much of what each of you said was justfied and the truth. We must all keep on fighting in whatever way we can. However, we must be vigilant as wealth and power have many arms and from what is coming to light, there is a dark side to EV. Having left the movement in 1982 (the reason being I felt no longer anyone was taking responsibility for their lives, it was all 'Guru Maharaji's Grace', and drove me up the wall, apathy, swooning, buckets of 'love' sloshing about and no substance, no reckoning etc.) I have since been out of touch and until this time had no real grudge against Maharaj Ji. Being a premie for those 8 years was an amazing experience and we did feel a divine love and a tremendous love for each other, where we gained in many ways to be better human beings. But such a fine line, such a tightrope to walk. As one of you said power corrupts and absolute power corrupts. M's father once said the higher you climb the harder you can fall, and ANYONE can fall. Even the Lord of the Universe. THANK YOU ALL for supporting ABI, YOU ARE ALL WONDERFUL. I will be here and always for her. Love Jodie

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Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 12:50:27 (GMT) From: Sandy Email: None To: Jodie - Abi's Mum Subject: Reckoning... Message:

Having left the movement in 1982 (the reason being I felt no longer anyone was taking responsibility for their lives, it was all 'Guru Maharaji's Grace', and drove me up the wall, apathy, swooning, buckets of 'love' sloshing about and no substance, no reckoning etc.) -Jodie *** Jodie, That word 'reckoning' is not used much anymore, but it really says alot here. There was no reckoning, no setting the record straight, between many premies, who picked up on that habit from Maharaji's heirarchy of dysfunctional business agents, instructors and other personal representatives who felt that any and all rules of civilized conduct were null and void if they were acting in service to him. On the stage he said to be immaculate legally, but I wonder what his directions were offstage. There is nothing wrong with being shrewd in this world, but I think was he and they did was beyond shrewd. And anyone who felt like doing something could just say it was for him and that made it cool or so they thought. The contempt with which he spoke about marriage, family and friendship always bothered me alot, and I tried hard to understand and fit it into my cosmology, but it did not fit. Now I see that he probably became so cynical because he saw his father/Master in a bad relationship with Mata ji and probably witnessed alot of what many kids witness, their parents fighting. But that is no excuse for what has transpired since. So Jodie, I hope you have a good life from here on, and Abi too. The best is yet to come. Sandy Yeah, 'reckoning' is something we all have to do sooner or later. Better sooner.

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Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 12:35:07 (GMT) From: Dot Email: None To: Jodie - Abi's Mum Subject: Huge thanks for all your wonderful support Message:

Dear Jodie, Like you, I'm not much of a net user but having seen your post on one of my lurking phases I was moved to offer my support to you and the family. As many have said Abi is a brave and admirable woman who deserves as much support as possible, also you as a parent need reassurance that Jagdeo's activities were not your fault. I can remember in Children's Satsang at Wringford telling the kids stories about champions of truth, dressed in white saving vunerable villagers from evil and oppression. I have been waiting for M to be that champion for Abi and up to now he has been seriously dissappointing to put it mildly!! In turn how can he be my champion? Much love to you Jodie. From an old friend.

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Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 10:25:49 (GMT) From: creativejani Email: None To: Jodie - Abi's Mum Subject: Huge thanks ... Message:

Hi Jodie, just wanted to say that when i win the lottery I have a large chunk mentally put aside to help with the legal costs...Unfortunately, money talks, but I believe we all have real power (every human being has) and we can focus it on any goal we feel strongly enough about. I feel strongly about injustice, deceit and cruelty, and m scores 11/10 on all of them. so I feel moved to play some part in telling the truth about him. I hope you keep visiting when you feel like a chat or finding out what's happening in France! Sounds like the end is nigh for m in Europe, we can only hope - chipping away at any credibility he has will make the case against him easier to prove. All the best to you and Abi.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 10:01:12 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: janet Subject: Thank you Jodie, and here's why I'm involved Message:

on EPO, having all this information available. I remember that time when Jagdeo was around, and I've been with him on several occasions to translate his 'satsang' to French. I've had many responsibilities for years in DLM, EV, and acting in the name of Mr Rawat as an instructor, and/or a representative for EV in France. I'm revolted by EV's and Rawat's attitude. I also know of several other victims of other predators, as it looks like thre are quite some of them around Mr Rawat and in EV's hierarchy. This cannot be tolerated, whatever Mr Rawat's 'teachings' are. I'll keep working on having all these documents available as long as those creeps don't change their attitude and accept full responsibility for what happened in the past, and do what's necessary for such things not to happen anymore.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 13:06:03 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Thank you Jodie, and here's why I'm involved Message:

you are the best, the strongerm, the wiser. I'm so proud to know you. hehehehehe And cops are funny. hahahhahaha especially in Pensilvania.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 03:20:00 (GMT) From: Peter Howie Email: None To: Everyone Subject: And on and on it goes. Message:

Hi All, I've been losing my enthusiasm for the 'this is the last dying breath' for the MJ cult. I notice myself and indeed many others of you interpreting the data as meaning that it is nearly over. Small showings for video events, small showings at regional MJ talks etc, great defections, recent premies becoming recent ex-premies etc. However as I see it - it can't be denied that he did get a decent roll-up at Amaroo. Given that it cost a lot to attend, it cost a lot for overseas people to attend (time and money)and there were heaps of pricy extras. Despite all the last minute pumping for attendence etc. I mean approx 4,500 people at $1,000 per head - well there is 4.5 million - and the real costs of the event are much less - bugger all really - his overheads aren't real costs, almost all work is done free with premies paying their own way food and accom wise. I mean they did spend some money on the scouts and Emergency Service people to set up the tents. So I reckon it could dribble on pretty much forever - with many splits after death. I reckon given the size of our world population there are many more suckers (read - vulnerable people in the wrong place at the wrong time) that he can tap into. Cheers Peter Howie

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 21:01:23 (GMT) From: Tony Email: None To: Peter Howie Subject: And on and on it goes. Message:

G'day Pete, Well said mate.I could'nt agree mpre. Cheers Tony.The one who fixed your back all those years ago.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 16:58:56 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Peter Howie Subject: And on and on it goes. Message:

I agree that Maharaji could retain a small following for as long as he lives, and probably will. It would probably be enough people to keep him living his lavish lifestyle, and carry on the facade that he is actually doing something about 'spreading knowledge.' But the 'cult' as we all knew it, I really do believe is on its last legs, at least in the West. I don't think it will grow at all, and will slowly shrink. It is now impossible for Maharaji to hide the fact that he claimed to be God (and is now lying about it), that he wastes vast resources on his own megalomaniac fantasies, that there are many people who think he's a fraud and say knowledge doesn't word, etc., etc. So, he won't get new people, and many premies will leave. Maybe not with any drama or declarations, but just drift away. As a result, money will always, and increasingly, be a problem, and EV and Maharaji will have to scale back. But Maharaji's lifestyle, being that IT is the priority, will always get the first dollars that people donate. But everytime somebody drops out of his cult, that is a BIG victory for truth and freedom. So, when I hear about the 'last dying breath of the cult,' that's what I think of, not some kind of total collapse. Probably there are a number of premies so deluded and committed, that they wouldn't stop being devotees even if Maharaji told them to. It's sad, but probably true.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 13:29:29 (GMT) From: Gregg Email: None To: Peter Howie Subject: And on and on and on and on it goes. Message:

I'm sure you're right, Peter. People are loathe to change. The comfort of having a God-man for a protector is hard to give up. Maharaj Ji can live in the style to which he is accustomed with only a few thousand followers (not to mention his more numerous though less profitable, hence more ignored, Indian devotees). Premies, like Seventh-Day Adventists and Mormons, are probably a pretty healthy lot on the whole, so even though they are older than their Master, they will probably live long enough to support him until his lifestyle catches up to him and Daya takes over.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 06:19:15 (GMT) From: Your Little mate CW Email: None To: Peter Howie Subject: Why dont you just forget about it then Message:

When you see first hand that the Anth inspired Death theory is simply a crock do you end up feeling like Alice in Wonderland or Peter Pan? I wish, I wish I wish..... Do you think we all might just be totally deluded? Or maybe we all actually feel really good about what is happening? Tough one for an intelligent guy like you Pete! Or another way of looking at it 'How long can you guys keep kidding yourselves? OK Harpies , Vampires and Ghouls ; the neck is exposed, come on down and feast on the carcass of Catweasel!!! PS: The Contractors out there come for nothing do they?

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 23:56:52 (GMT) From: Peter Howie Email: None To: Your Little mate CW Subject: Why dont you just forget about it then Message:

Dear CW No I don't feel conflicted CW - but at the same time I don't or at better put - I no longer need your or other's 'conversion' to the 'ex-premie truth'. I reckon there are far worse things a person could be doing with their time than following MJ. Many of my friends follow one path or another - yoga, meditation of one sort or another and they are as coy about it as any ole' premie. My main dissapointment with MJ is that my beliefs about him didn't and don't fit with what he is. Now that is true to some extent with all relationships - yes a little delusion is essential for daily living - but i am disappointed with his liflong relationship with drugs and power while declaiming them. Rewriting history - well that is very human! But my beliefs were fairly well aligned with his description of himself. Others clearly don't have this problem with him. Many people don't have a problem with a literal belief in JC either, or Buddha etc etc. So it is a real learning for me to accept that others see him as they do and that they employ their own wisdom in doing so. I can't get past his dishonesty - I can see the way other do but I can't and I won't. And as you so delightfully enjoy reminding us - you couldn't give a rat's arse what any of us think and I've noticing you enjoying the process of some people trying to 'entrap' you. Anyway - cheers for now Peter PS Clearly there are people paid to do stuff out there - contractors et al. They all take their cut and good luck to them. I think it is great the scouts get some $ for putting up tents.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 21:22:58 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: Your Little mate CW Subject: Why dont you just forget about it then Message:

We would like to help you see the truth, but you have a collar around your neck and you seem to like it, or maybe you do not know you have it.He brainwashed you good, didn't he? Chill and think, reason, if you can. I dare you.How much? Love, sb

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 15:29:53 (GMT) From: Katie H Email: None To: Your Little mate CW Subject: Reasons not to forget about it Message:

Cat - It's my opinion that there are many people (like yourself?) who will ALWAYS want to be premies - that's just the way it is. And I accept that. You can go ahead and have a good time at Amaroo with my blessing :). However, the real virtue of the ex-premie websites, in my opinion, is that they present the other side of Maharaji's story for would-be aspirants, provide support for those people who don't really want to be premies anymore, but feel that they should, and help people who feel guilty about having ambivalent feelings about M. You may think these people are deluded, or aren't having 'that experience', but the fact is that many of them are not happy being M's followers. And despite what M says, he doesn't make it easy for people to 'walk'. We can't make people listen to what we have to say, but at least we know we've tried our best to put the information out where it is accessible for them if they choose to hear it. Take care, Katie

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 17:01:44 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Katie H Subject: Thanks, Katie Message:

I should have read your post first. It was what I was trying to say in my post, above, but you said it better. I agree completely.

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 05:32:25 (GMT) From: CW Email: None To: Joe Subject: Thanks, Katie Message:

Katie, come on ,that is a PR statement. I was talking to the koala about his personal perspective. Everytime you guys follow thru like that , you make it look like a Batman comic. The line.. The little marsupial;(not bear)is starting to open his eyes. You cant deny what is actually happening. Or you can ...Like Anth and co......

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 23:00:24 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: CW Subject: 'You cant deny what is actually happening. ..' Message:

So tell us what is actually happening, David. Phase 2 - the golden age at last... what? Telling people they are wrong or misguided without explaining why makes you look stupid.

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Date: Sun, May 27, 2001 at 00:44:11 (GMT) From: CW Email: None To: Nigel Subject: 'You cant deny what is actually happening. ..' Message:

Firstly let's get something straight. To date I have been nominated to be over 10 separate people known to others here. None have come close. FA verified that I was not Cerise. We used the same National telecommunications company server. (as do over 2 million other aussies - big deal!) Lesley Lamb Chops(She knows why I'm calling her that) is merely shooting in the dark ,and has no clue. My mail is that the reason she gets the treatment she spoke of is down to her -attitude and paranoia. The denizens of Northern NSW are too laid back to be bothered with her.A bong or two might help? Call me whatever you like ;makes no difference.But respect one thing. I'm clever enough to infuriate you to the extent where you continually post the nonsense you do. It makes you look silly, not me.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 08:10:06 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: CW Subject: Why dont you just forget about it then Message:

CW: What you do or don't is irrelevant to most of us. And the notion that you have blood, when you haven't a name, life, logic, or an identity with any substance, is as preposterous as the claim that you're baring anything to anyone. Most people here believe you're a premie, but if that's true then you're precisely the sort of follower that Maharaji deserves. I don't see any injustice in that state of affairs at all. Maharaji will be around for a long time. The world isn't really getting much smarter. --Scott

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 14:05:41 (GMT) From: CW Email: None To: Scott T. Subject: Why dont you just forget about it then Message:

Scott, please amuse yourself some other way. You seem to follow me around like a hungry dung beetle. Say something funny. Tragic is so boring and terribly easy. Take a leaf out of the fabulous Pat C's book. Are you blonde?

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 15:46:15 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: CW Subject: Why dont you just forget about it then Message:

Well, I certainly agree that those two observations (that you and M deserve one another, and that he'll be around for a long time) are tragic. But Pat C can do what he likes. I guess he's your buddy now. BTW, nice self assessment. I'll certainly leave you alone if you put a similar voluntary disclaimer in *all* your posts, about which end of the cow your observations should be associated. I'm just marking the plops for the unwary, not collecting them. Don't take it so personally.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 06:29:00 (GMT) From: Sam Hardy Email: samhardy2002@yahoo.com To: Your Little mate CW Subject: Why dont you just forget about it then Message:

Geez, Dave, what are you doing on the internet on a sunny afternoon like this? Take a walk on the beach at New Brighton.

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 07:05:12 (GMT) From: Dave Catweasel Email: None To: Sam Hardy Subject: Why Dave? Message:

I like this . Now I'm Dave? Kool!!!!! (Who is Dave?)

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Date: Fri, May 25, 2001 at 00:01:57 (GMT) From: Sam Hardy Email: None To: Dave Catweasel Subject: Why Not Dave? Message:

Who's Dave? You are. Now.

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 00:28:05 (GMT) From: CW Email: None To: Sam Hardy Subject: Why Not Dave? Message:

So it would seem. But Daves not home! BTW Dave really doesn't suit. Lets play Celebrity squares. You pick the first name and I'll give you a bonus.................... Yours Sincerely Stan Laurel

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 07:07:34 (GMT) From: Sam Hardy Email: None To: CW Subject: How about Cerise? nt Message:

n

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 12:35:28 (GMT) From: CW Email: None To: Sam Hardy Subject: How about Cerise? nt Message:

Nah , but I thought she was clever.

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 16:38:19 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: CW Subject: How about Cerise? nt Message:

Nah , but I thought she was clever. Of course you did, Cat. Cerise did have a high opinion of 'herself', so that makes sense. Probably chuckled at the cleverness of that 'Botswana' post to Abi, too, even as she typed it.

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 16:56:44 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Nigel Subject: thanks Nigel!! Message:

Being clever does not equate to being cruel. It's a lot more of a challenge to be clever in a constructive way.

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 06:43:20 (GMT) From: NetSpy Email: None To: CW Subject: How 'bout Alice? Message:

As in Alice Springs?;)

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Date: Sat, May 26, 2001 at 12:34:04 (GMT) From: CW Email: None To: NetSpy Subject: How 'bout Alice? Message:

Alice Springs the famous native Australian drag Queen? Some say that Priscilla , Queen of the desert was based on her. What do you think Victoria? 'She's nothing but an exotic has been. She attracts camels and is dry as a mulga skinks armpit for 11 months of the year. Pity the poor man looking for the fertility God to bless his Rainbow Snake with!' Thanks Victoria. Great Scott! You really didn't think.....No Netspy.....

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 02:26:40 (GMT) From: Lesley Email: None To: David Subject: Hey, David, just checked the inactive index Message:

Firstly, thanks Scott T for responding. David, not all my friends with K have responded in such a fearful manner to me, in fact, some have become exes themselves. My point went past the fact that it saddens me to be responded to in such a manner, and moved on to the more interesting observation that the practise of premieship makes people vulnerable and incapable of looking after themselves, and responding in an appropriate and adult way to other people. Cults, like families, operate to a set of rules. As Scott T pointed out, the shudder of horror comes as a response to the fact that I am no longer subscribing to those rules, not because of some evil aspect manifesting in me! And no, David, I am not on a 'crusade', I made contact out of genuine concern for you, which was caused by the crazy multiple personality posts you make here. And it is just that one of those rules, the one about not putting two thoughts together, the one about not speaking your mind, the one about 'shut up and just listen to the master', I don't like that rule, and I do not observe it anymore. Also I have zero respect for Rawat and his stage show, I do not belong to his family and feel no need to turn myself inside out to protect a guy who has served me ill. So, now I have stated my case, still want to know me, or am I too uncomfortable? Best Regards, Lesley

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 16:38:37 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Lesley Subject: Lesley, can you email me? Thanks. (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, May 24, 2001 at 00:08:39 (GMT) From: Gregg Email: see journeys To: Everyone Subject: Does this sound familiar? Message:

This is a description of Adi Da/Franklin Jones/Da Free John/Eternal God of all Creation or whatever he's calling himself these days. It sounds very much like two recent descriptions of our ex-Lord from recent accounts on this site. The 'Get your nasal appendage out of my anal sphincter' cocktail party, and the sad story from the former instructor about 'My Dinner with Maharaji.' 'But sources paint a quite different picture of what goes on behind the scenes. When the veil is pulled away, and 'the man behind the curtain' is revealed, Frank comes across as incessantly foul-mouthed, petty, nagging, totally self-obsessed and controlling. His life is a constant stream of decision-making about his hobbies and his possessions. He obsesses about money, and he micro-manages virtually every detail of ashram life. Among his intimates he often refers to the devotees as 'dummies', 'damn phonies', 'kiss-ass retards', and 'high-faluting egos' who 'diddle me with their crap'. (And those are only a few of the nice things he says about his followers.) His private conversation is laced with obscenities. This is a man who would feel right at home in any workingman's drinking establishment. One can't help thinking of President Nixon and the split between his public and private personna. Despite his 'rough edges', these days Frank doesn't enjoy the give and take of relationship with real men. It is clear that the men he keeps close to him quickly develop an emasculated quality. After awhile, their faces take on an ashen red-eyed look, like victims of vampirism. Anybody who dares to stand up to his bullying is quickly sent packing. Sounds like you-know-who, doesn't it? Except for paying attention to the details of ashram life. M didn't really give a shit, as long as the bottom line looked good.

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