Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Tues, May 22, 2001 at 17:39:52 (GMT)
From: May 07, 2001 To: May 20, 2001 Page: 5 Of: 5


Joe -:- The impeccability requirement -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 17:10:50 (GMT)
__ Mr. Mind -:- If EV was a publically traded corporation........ -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 09:36:23 (GMT)
__ la-ex -:- Joe, I swear this story is true..a little example. -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 04:02:55 (GMT)
__ __ Christian Star -:- That was so well written, LA-ex...!!!!! ROFL -:- Fri, May 11, 2001 at 03:25:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ la-ex -:- Hi Christian. It was in US,and I've got more... -:- Fri, May 11, 2001 at 04:02:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Christian Star -:- The satellite one should be hilarious too -:- Fri, May 11, 2001 at 20:34:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Glen is everywhere. Where are the UFO's? -:- Sat, May 12, 2001 at 03:56:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Christan Star -:- Glen is everywhere. Where are the UFO's? -:- Sat, May 12, 2001 at 16:44:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Christian Star -:- Glen is everywhere. Where are the UFO's? -:- Sat, May 12, 2001 at 16:27:38 (GMT)
__ __ Gary Epton -:- ****HILARIOUS**** A situation comedy fer sure. . . -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 19:33:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- ****HILARIOUS**** yer post -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 21:14:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Gary -:- Fully Prostrate at the Golden Throne -:- Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 03:19:37 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- Thanks, well done. -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 17:07:58 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- Do you remember this???? hahahahahahha -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 13:34:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Oh My God, there it is!!! -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 17:07:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- What is ridiculous -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 17:54:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ Voyeur -:- Do you remember this???? hahahahahahha -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 14:07:36 (GMT)
__ __ Bryn -:- Excellent ! Ho ho ho. So true. Me too etc. NT -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 11:52:06 (GMT)
__ __ wolfie -:- Joe, I swear this story is true..a little example. -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 09:59:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ Curious Goerge -:- Too Funny -:- Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 03:05:05 (GMT)
__ __ Mr. Mind -:- Great story -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 09:40:58 (GMT)
__ __ Thelma the Church Lady -:- torrential rainstorm before program and your drip -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 07:27:57 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- ***A Classic! A best ***** n/t -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 06:04:02 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- oh my god, please make this a ***BEST*** -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 04:43:37 (GMT)
__ __ Richard -:- la-ex, this is way beyond compulsive -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 04:40:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Richard, Dimming the lights is soooo blissful... -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 15:26:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Richard -:- Richard, Dimming the lights is soooo blissful... -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 16:02:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- la-ex did not exaggerate - that's how it was (nt) -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 04:46:01 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- but he can show up when he wants -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 03:04:58 (GMT)
__ Joy -:- OCD -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 00:52:06 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- it starts on time right down to the atomic second -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:54:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Soap! I Cleaned His Toilet, Christ! UGH!!! -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 04:19:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Jim Hession -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 17:38:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Jim Hession -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 20:55:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Archie Bunker -:- Cult Events and 'terlets' for M -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 11:02:14 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- time to quit when you can't bring in new people -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 22:25:36 (GMT)
__ __ PatC -:- you can't bring in new people - Amen -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:19:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- that is truly tragic, Pat, and no kidding -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 20:12:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Be grateful...................for your anus, Chris -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 23:35:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ Barry -:- you can't bring in new people - Amen -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 03:53:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- M has saves lives, but it's those suicidal doubts -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:46:18 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- I remember that mess well -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 18:23:06 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- Yeah, marge hates mess and probably fears it.. -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 20:16:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- I think Donner had a story -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 23:08:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joy -:- Hi Fran--I came to the same conclusion=OCD -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:04:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nick -:- Hi Fran--I came to the same conclusion=OCD -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 07:39:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Wow Nick -- M free lips! -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 15:42:07 (GMT)
__ Free -:- The Looks, the appearence of heaven -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 18:03:50 (GMT)
__ __ Helen -:- The Looks, the appearence of heaven -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 20:36:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ Free -:- You got it!! NT -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 20:40:17 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- willing to transcribe that video for you, Free -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 18:11:15 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- Narcissism -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 18:03:44 (GMT)
__ __ Helen -:- Narcissism -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 20:41:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- 'Sainthood' - qu'est-ce que c'est? -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 21:42:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Helen -:- 'Sainthood' - qu'est-ce que c'est? -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 00:14:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Joy -:- Enlightenment -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:19:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Enlightenment vs Judeo Christian perspective -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 20:39:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Bob -:- Enlightenment -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 02:08:03 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- This is a classic cause of suicide, as well -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 18:30:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Helen -:- This is a classic cause of suicide, as well -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 20:46:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Richard -:- You are on to something important here H and F -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 21:01:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mercedes -:- social suicide, so, so true... n/t -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 00:06:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- You are on to something important here H and F -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 00:05:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Not to mention Mahatma Gitanand -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 23:18:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Bob -:- Mahatma Gitanand -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:44:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Mahatma Gitanand -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 09:38:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ wolfie -:- Mahatma Gitanand -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 08:50:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ suchabanana -:- Danke schon, wolfie. Empfang. (nt -:- Sat, May 12, 2001 at 16:59:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Mahatma Gitanand - can you confirm this? -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 23:03:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ wolfie -:- Mahatma Gitanand - can you confirm this? -:- Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 07:51:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- broken english -- boy Mahatma abuse -:- Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 19:35:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ wolfie -:- broken english -- boy Mahatma abuse -:- Fri, May 11, 2001 at 10:44:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Do you mean he tried but failed to commit suicide? -:- Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 09:00:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ wolfie -:- he recoverded from his suicide attempt -:- Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 15:37:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Thanks, wolfie -:- Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 17:35:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Chef Boy-Arti -:- Thanks, wolfie -:- Fri, May 11, 2001 at 03:38:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- I hope he failed to commit suicide -:- Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 13:32:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Thanks wolfie -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 15:51:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Dermot -:- Wolfie, just read your post after posting mine -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 09:50:22 (GMT)

la-ex -:- toe kissing,arti+bad breath at amarro-what's up? -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 05:37:26 (GMT)
__ jondon -:- Amaroo stories are coming in... -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 03:26:19 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- cant believe M would go to Worcester -:- Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 00:13:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ Cynthia -:- cant believe M would go to Worcester..me too.. -:- Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 18:05:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- Worcester..me too..yuck -:- Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 22:33:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene and ps Worcester -:- but then again but he went to Oxnard :) -:- Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 23:10:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mrs. Robinson -:- M's Son Hits on Older Woman at Amarood -:- Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 03:44:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- that cycle can be broken -:- Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 22:43:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- that cycle can be broken...good point, but -:- Fri, May 11, 2001 at 13:49:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Gary -:- Like Father Like Son -:- Fri, May 11, 2001 at 06:07:05 (GMT)
__ __ such -:- Even in your darkest hangover,I will not abandon u -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 17:30:36 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- These stories deserve a permanent spot here -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 14:24:27 (GMT)
__ __ Tonette -:- That sounds like one WIERD scene -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 07:48:56 (GMT)
__ __ PatC -:- Thanks for those stories, Jondon. Great! NT -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 07:42:21 (GMT)
__ Bin Liner -:- A cold calculated business decision . -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 21:04:41 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- I agree, la-ex -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 17:29:41 (GMT)
__ Bob -:- arti+bad breath at amarro-what's up? -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 16:06:25 (GMT)
__ SB -:- Good Post. Read this premies! -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 15:29:35 (GMT)
__ F arti -:- You've said it perfectly in a nut shell.Spot om.nt -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 12:31:49 (GMT)
__ Gary Epton -:- Truth or Consequence -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 06:15:30 (GMT)

Chuck Sprague -:- PICS: LB1997: M dancing, Divine Mall floorplan... -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 01:41:47 (GMT)
__ Suzanne -:- Groooossss -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 21:44:07 (GMT)
__ __ WMary -:- Sounds like the scene from Jesus Christ Super... -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 21:57:09 (GMT)
__ such -:- It's not easy to be rich.Once u have a million (nt -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:35:28 (GMT)
__ SB -:- PICS: LB1997: M dancing, Divine Mall floorplan... -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 15:53:15 (GMT)
__ Magnolia -:- When my boyfriend went to LB97 with another woman -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 14:24:39 (GMT)
__ __ PatC -:- Let's hope your ''Inner Bitch'' is tougher than -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:40:14 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- You all have reminded me of my last drip program -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 05:15:50 (GMT)
__ Gary Epton -:- Thanks for reminding me to take the garbage out, -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 05:14:37 (GMT)
__ LB 97 refugee -:- like a revivalist and yet not.. -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 04:09:04 (GMT)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- nice image, Selene, whispering of Arti, etc. (nt) -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 20:53:47 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Long Beach 97 did it for me. Good to the last drop -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 02:41:03 (GMT)

Elan Vital -:- Items from our catalogue -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 23:19:07 (GMT)
__ Gordon Showcase -:- These people just don't get it -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 01:07:16 (GMT)
__ __ Lurker #27 -:- Righto Gord! These ex-premie commie bastards . . . -:- Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 19:36:34 (GMT)
__ __ Prem-Lotto-Corp -:- Hee-haw! (nt) -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 15:47:39 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- uhh-gord? woolworths went out of business -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 07:10:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Gordon Showcase -:- Uh??? -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:31:43 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Amaroo's neurosis -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 21:39:33 (GMT)
__ SB -:- God is jolting -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 16:41:48 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Maybe Lucifer gives darshan too? (nt) -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 17:11:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- Lucifer: HIS EYES are very WEIRD! -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:03:09 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- Holy Breath! Holy Cow! I got it twice and didn't -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 02:38:13 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- I also got it twice and didn't feel a thing. -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 04:05:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- I also got it twice and didn't feel a thing. -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 12:50:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Three times! No wonder your so enlightened! -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 18:49:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- I only got one shot of holy breath... -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:44:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- That old black magic's got me in its spell -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:58:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mr. Mind -:- Divine Lungers -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 11:14:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ PatC -:- We were specifically told not to try for it again. -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 07:58:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- Oh yes, I felt so guilty, I was such a naughty boy -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 12:56:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- It would be too rude to expose our bums to urug -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 18:55:07 (GMT)
__ A Former Aspirant -:- Do they talk about darshan at intro events? -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 23:21:38 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- No, Because It is A Cult!!! n/t -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 18:44:41 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- Aspirant are not ready for that -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 16:54:59 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- Do they talk about darshan at intro events? -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 12:54:56 (GMT)
__ __ Mercedes -:- Do they talk about darshan at intro events? -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 04:25:52 (GMT)
__ Dopey Gopi -:- Holy Halitosis Fatman! (nt) -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 23:12:58 (GMT)

SloeBurn -:- Sloe Progress -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 21:09:43 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- Sloe Progress, Yes, take it slow... -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:41:32 (GMT)
__ Richard -:- Sloe Progress best, logic can't enter 'that place' -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 17:25:26 (GMT)
__ __ Helen -:- I appreciate this topic; a bit of a rant -:- Sat, May 12, 2001 at 14:41:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ la-ex -:- I appreciate this topic; a bit of a rant/my take.. -:- Sat, May 12, 2001 at 16:36:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ Richard -:- I appreciate this topic; a bit of a rant -:- Sat, May 12, 2001 at 15:24:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Helen -:- I appreciate this topic; a bit of a rant -:- Sat, May 12, 2001 at 16:32:24 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- Sloe Progress - I think you're onto something -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 02:48:06 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Something has to give... -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 22:05:38 (GMT)
__ Magnolia -:- A woman who loves men who love gurus too much -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 21:49:59 (GMT)
__ __ PatC -:- Love your posts, Magnolia. What's Nag Champa? -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 02:53:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ Magnolia -:- Life is just yabyummy! -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 13:59:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ PatC -:- You DO have a lot of original stuff to tell us -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:00:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Magnolia -:- i don't sell 'be here now' but i try to live it -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:48:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- I knew you were a wise woman when I read your -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 02:31:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Francesca -:- The brand we have here doesn't have -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 16:08:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- incense, dude! -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 05:18:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ such -:- The sandalwood is, like, satya agarbatti! -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 07:17:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bob -:- new project for med research? -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 11:53:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ such -:- how 'bout Let's: BOYCOTT NAG CHAMPA products!!! -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:22:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Japanese incense is better. -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 20:44:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Magnolia -:- Oh Yes, Morning Star Sandalwood! -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 21:57:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ sb -:- Sandalwood, one of my favorites -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 05:29:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Magnolia -:- where have all the good gurus gone? -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:59:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ such -:- Gone to graveyards,every one.Oh, when will we ever -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 21:27:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- I'm witcha on them lab rats n/t -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 16:09:59 (GMT)

Moldy Warp -:- CatWeasel 's 'relationship' with 'Maharaji' -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 12:58:34 (GMT)
__ PatC -:- What a mouthful, Moldy! Scrumptious! NT -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 02:56:37 (GMT)
__ donner -:- CatWeasel 's 'relationship' with 'Maharaji' -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 15:36:25 (GMT)
__ __ Moldy Warp's Secretary -:- taking dicatation FAO Mr Donner Dear Mr Donner, -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 18:04:50 (GMT)
__ Loaf -:- Bloke on a flower bed... LOL Hee hee (NT)xxxx -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 14:09:50 (GMT)


Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 17:10:50 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The impeccability requirement
Message:
Down below, people were talking about this 'impeccability' requirement that Maharaji has always stressed, and the premies parrot back all the time. In the Maharaji cult, there seems to be this anal attention to the most minute details of things, but no concept whatsoever as to why the details don't come together to actually get any results.

For example, how many times has the progagation scheme changed over the years, with the same, miserable, lack of results? The cult doesn't grow, it actually shrinks. It's almost as if this scenario allows PWKs to focus on the details to avoid seeing the failure of reaching the actual goal. Right now, there is the 'new' scheme of DVDs and 'auto-knowledge' for which premies are apparently forking over thousands of dollars to finance, apparently relieved that propagation is 'finally' going to happen. But, like all the previous schemes, that isn't going to happen because the cult has a fundamental problem, and that's Maharaji himself, and how the premies come accross in doing 'participation.'

One example comes to mind. In late 1981, Maharaji did a program at Zellerbach Hall in Berkeley on the UC campus. The program was shceduled to begin at 8:00 pm and was advertised as an introductory program. Being a former Elan Vital management-type, I was put in charge of something or other (can't recall what exactly), but that Nazi David Smith was the overall honcho, as he was in charge of the Western US for Elan Vital.

Anyhow, with the rental of the hall came a group of UC Students who were working taking tickets as people entered. I think we were contractually required to utilize them for that purpose. Anyhow, premies had to pick up tickets at will-call and things slowed down some, but Smith was absolutly frantic that the program had to begin precisely at 8 and everyone had to be in their seats. I remember him frantically running around, wreaking of paranoia, harrassing everyone to that end. Accordingly, he was harrassing these students to get them to get people in faster and get them seated. I remember the students looking at this crazed man like he was psychotic, and let's face it, he was.

There was this fanatic need to be impeccable and that meant the program had to begin exactly on time, or we had failed in serving the living Lord. But the result was, these students, as well as a number of the invited 'new people' felt rushed and harrassed and saw examples of robotic crazy people as premies. It was not a good example for people to see. The attempt to be impeccable resulted in fanatic craziness, which was not lost on anyone who saw it.

I remember kind of withdrawing at that point. I just went and sat down. The program ended up starting about 8:10 and, reportedly, Maharaji was pissed that the program didn't begin on time. Maharaji then came on stage and spoke incoherent nonsense which did not impress the guest I had brought to the program. After the program was over, I went with her to get cake and coffee, and we NEVER discussed the program then, or ever again. She was not impressed by Maharaji or the premies, and I was frankly ashamed to be associated with them. It was at that point that I became thoroughly embarrassed to tell anyone I was a premie and I never again tried to propagate to anyone.

It seems this scenario continues in the Maharaji cult, coming straight from the top.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 09:36:23 (GMT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: If EV was a publically traded corporation........
Message:
...the board of directors would have screamed 'Off with his (Rawat's) head' long ago. This man has tried many documented changes in his 30 years of so-called leadership. All have failed.However, being the sole proprietor of his cult, he can continue indefinetely to blame others for his failures. As long as his membership sees him as perfect(and they do), they will humbly accept the blame.

Shit truly does flow down hill.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 04:02:55 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Joe, I swear this story is true..a little example.
Message:
Joe, here's an example of the impeccability requirement along with the 'copycat tendency' from a local intro program a few years ago.
It shows how following the maha rather than your own common sense is silly and counterproductive, and just so plain stupid....it also shows how no one in their right mind would ever get into this at this point...

When I was still involved, I volunteered to run the video projector at the local hall for an introductory program one Sunday night.
The crowd would be mostly premies, with a few invited guests.

One premie had even spent days designing an invitation that he actually had to clear with EV before it could be used.
Ushers had gone hundreds of miles away to an ushers participation meeting for a full weekend to be properly trained and synchronised.
There was a properly trained emcee, with canned remarks according to EV's direction.Part of those directions specifically stated that under no circumstances should humor, original remarks, or one's personality be involved with the intro remarks.
There was a properly trained event manager, properly synchronised.
There had been a required security meeting for all participating servants to be properly trained on how to operate the fire extinguisher in the hall.(not kidding)
(The hall is about 12 feet wide by 30 feet long and seats about 25 people max.)
Two ushers were trained and in place.
A backup emcee was present, just in case.

The divine sales table was properly manned by the sales person.
Another person sat at the back of the room with an intro video of m, to be handed out to anyone who showed up by mistake and was not ready for the intro program(?).
This person had been to a meeting with David Smith about how to approach new people who wandered in and were not deemed ready for the video-they were to be given a free video to go home and watch.

Another premie stood outside the hall and kept an eye on the parking lot.
Another premie sat in the back, ready to assist at any time for any reason.(kind of an all around utility man)
Another premie handled the lights, ready to fade up and down, in synch with the video.
Another premie sat beside the thermostat, in case it needed adjustments.
Another premie stood by, ready to talk to new people at the end, if any came and had questions.
And I stood ready to run the video machine.

Let's see, I think that's about 12-13 people involved in service at this point. (The community has about 25 people max, about 15-18 regulars)

(To those still reading this post, I am NOT kidding or exaggerating any of this. This happened about 3 years ago, and was done acccording to the EV book.)

Problem was, that after this routine had been practiced and run a few times, this particular night there had been a torrential rainstorm just before the program.
This were hurricane type gales of wind and rain, which lasted about 20 minutes and then quickly passed.
Anyone on their way to the program would surely be caught up in it, and the resulting traffic jams.

I was there very early to set up the video equipment, but quickly surmised that there would be a problem due to incoming late stragglers, because of the rain...

However, only being a mid level community member at best, due to my somewhat maverick nature, and refusal to become a 'church lady', I was quickly over-ruled by the reigning 'Industrial strength church lady' (a man I will not name, but is more uptight and rigid than David Smith, if you can believe that..)

I told the 'ISCL' that we needed to start the program at least 5-10 minutes late, due to the inclement weather.
If we didn't, people would be streaming in late throughout the video, and being a tiny room,it would create havoc for the viewing of the video.

But the 'ISCL' prevailed, citing m's insistence on using the atomic clock to start the programs...in fact, his watch had been set that night to the atomic clock, in synchronization with the anticipated intro program.

So, the program starts at 7PM sharp, right on the money according to the atomic clock.

Only problem is, the only people in the hall are me on the video projector, and he and his wife.

What to do?

We had to start on time, but the requisite quorum of 12 able bodied premies was not present.

What is a Church Lady to do?

(Now put youself in his shoes for a breath or two....you start on time, but are very short on personnel-not good with EV. Or you wait 10 minutes and get the required personnel, but you have violated m's practice of starting compulsively on time. Either way you're in deep doodoo of the mind, and not wanting any bad reports to filter down to EV personnel.)

So, he starts on time, according to the atomic clock.(m's way, according to his point of view)

I run the video, his wife emcees, he checks the thermostat and fire extinguisher while turning down the lights, then his wife takes the required intro video and waits in the back of the room, while occassionally peeking outside at the parking lot.

The video starts,(only 3 of us at the outset) and premies stream in for the next 20 minutes, completely wrecking anyone's ability to watch it in any focused manner, as the door constantly opens and closes with light and outside noise streaming in.

About 10 regular premies come, no visitors...

But everyone did a little service...10 people all serving each other....

After the 'program', there was a 'debriefing' amongst all servants, to discuss the synchronised participation...

I think that was the final straw/drip for me....

I resigned as video man shortly thereafter.

A true story; actual names of servants deleted to protect them from lurking EV personnel and Glen Whittaker, who might seek to take disciplinary action against them.

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Date: Fri, May 11, 2001 at 03:25:40 (GMT)
From: Christian Star
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: That was so well written, LA-ex...!!!!! ROFL
Message:
I take it from your comment at the end that this video event you described was in England? Well, it was absolutely hilarious to me because it could have been an exact replica of what I have experienced here in the U.S. I couldn't stop laughing out loud as I read your post...!!!! I am still a 'practicing premie,' but can no longer stand to attend such silly events as you have described. Being one who suffered through many, many such events, I thank you so much for the laughs that by now I certainly deserve to get out of it!! Hahahaha. It's absolutely ridiculous!

I will have to always read your posts from now on. I couldn't bear to miss anything else as hilarious as that -- and all you did was 'state the obvious,' as Maharaji would put it. ROFL!!!

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Date: Fri, May 11, 2001 at 04:02:58 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Christian Star
Subject: Hi Christian. It was in US,and I've got more...
Message:
Hi Christian-

No, I'm not from England...that took place in a small community in the US about 2-3 years ago.

I think I may do a slight rewrite and tell it more from the 'Industrial Strength Church Lady' point of view...you know, the drama,the decision making,the agony,the ecstasy,...the silliness,...the bullshit...

Glad to see that you have a sense of humor about it all, even though you are in it...

I was a premie for 29 years, but graduated from Maharaji U. this last year with my Masters Degree.
I had already gotten my Bachelors Degree, after all that time being celibate in the ashram.
Decided not to go all the way for my PHD (piled higher and deeper).

It feels so good to just be me...and free...

Oh yeah, I have another story similar to the first one, about the very first satellite feed in a hotel and what THAT one was like...puts the first story to shame...

Good night, Christian Star...

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Date: Fri, May 11, 2001 at 20:34:30 (GMT)
From: Christian Star
Email: starflock@hotmail.com
To: la-ex
Subject: The satellite one should be hilarious too
Message:
Well, though I obviously disagree with you on the point of the viability of being a practicing premie, I am very much looking forward to the description of the satellite event.

I hope you'll post it up top somewhere because I don't know how to navigate this site very well, and this is pretty far down. Hey, did you see that awesome 'Disclosure' video-streaming press conference thing on the UFOs?

Oh, the reason I thought you were in England was cuz you said you weren't going to report names to Glen Whittaker, and he's British. Does he have an international role now or something?

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Date: Sat, May 12, 2001 at 03:56:18 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Christian Star
Subject: Glen is everywhere. Where are the UFO's?
Message:
Glen Whittaker supposedly is in charge of the monitoring of this site, and the strategies for dealing with it.

Occassionally we say hello to Glen, and will probably all wish him a Happy Birthday in the fall on his b-day.
I think Anth sometimes tells him to return his kitchen blender or something like that.

Can you tell me more about the UFO streaming video?

Also, just curious: do you tell new people about m?

And if you do, do you tell that there is a lot of dirty laundry behind the official presentation?

I am sincerely asking this, because the main reason I left was that I found out how unethical m and ev really were, and I just couldn't go on anymore lying about it to other people, and seing my friends basically try to con people into receiving k, without telling them the 'other side of the story'.
Also, m's version of history on his site angered me greatly.

Just curious. Sincerely curious.

La-ex

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Date: Sat, May 12, 2001 at 16:44:18 (GMT)
From: Christan Star
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Glen is everywhere. Where are the UFO's?
Message:
P.S. In response to EV's version of Maharaji's background, yes I agree it is poppycock. I wrote to Maharaji about this. My feeling is that he has nothing to be ashamed of but I keep getting the distinct impression that people who represent him are deeply embarrassed or ashamed of Maharaji's past, and this is very hurtful to him and to all of us. I believe in freedom of information and freedom of speech and freedom of expression.

Many things Maharaji has been accused of on this site are, no doubt, patently untrue. And many other things, no doubt, are absolutely accurate. Nonetheless, what I have not seen or experienced myself is hearsay. Not everyone is honest, not even here. =P

That said, I am very thankful Maharaji is a real person and not some celibate monk with pursed lips. And I know a lot of people on this site are angry with Maharaji for not taking responsibility for the actions of those around him and those that follow him, but IMO all of us our responsible for our own actions and our own actions only -- even Maharaji. I do not feel his is responsible for anyone else's actions, though he can credited with inspiring (or angering) others. My truly believe that Maharaji is an absolutely wonderful human being, and I believe it would be literally impossible for anyone less than wonderful and wise and graced to be able to say the things he does again and again at events around the world -- and only a motivated and heart-feeling individual would put the time and effort into such work as he does. Were he the terrible person many here characterize him as, he would he taken the money and run -- a long, long, long time ago.

My gratitude to Maharaji is, for me, a deeply beautiful experience.

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Date: Sat, May 12, 2001 at 16:27:38 (GMT)
From: Christian Star
Email: starflock@hotmail.com
To: la-ex
Subject: Glen is everywhere. Where are the UFO's?
Message:
Ohhhh, I see! Glenn is cool. I met him long, long ago. Hi Glenn. =) To Glenn: I think this site is really cool because, to put it in perspective, of what Shri Maharaji used to say: (paraphrasing of course since he didn't even speak English!) -- Listen to your enemies. They are the only ones that will tell you truthfully what your faults are. If you have an enemy, you should buy him a house right next door to where you live, and give him a bowl of rice every day!! I have only positive memories of you, Glenn -- a jolly old chap and interesting too!

La-Ex, I'm trying to remember what you asked me. Oh, about the UFOs, really you should check out that site for yourself if you have a decent computer. It is very hard to tell you 2 1/2 hours of information from the press conference in a short 'sound byte' here! Some of the most serious implications/truths involved? The fact that a 'secret' government of people have been covering up not only very significant UFO activity, crashed alien craft, etc., but also covering up the fact that technology IS now available that could end use of polluting fossil fuel and also end global warming -- but the military-industrial complex is a rich, greedy and powerful bugger and we need masses of people to urge their Congressmen to have an OPEN CONGRESSIONAL HEARING for the DISCLOSURE PROJECT which is spearheaded by Dr. Steve Greer, former legal counsel for those that busted open the 'Pentagon Papers,' the 'Silkwood' nuclear facility travesties and other such important globally-significant causes. These are *not* kooks. It is important, it is awesome, and I salute the bravery of the 21 witnesses that have stepped forward at the May 9th Conference!

Your other question: Yes, I do still tell people about Maharaji and Knowledge. I have continued to and share videos and invite people to watch satellite broadcasts at my home, however I do not volunteer any information about local hall events, etc. I feel it is a problem. It's all too weird. I trust it will change, because all weird things do. LOL. There are people who need and want to hear Maharaji and I hope to always faclitate that. I can only encourage them by my example to practice Knowledge faithfully, listen to Maharaji regularly and contribute to his work -- naturally and organically in the lifestyle of my own choosing, and having nothing to do with EV organizers. I appreciate EV because they facilitate my going to see Maharaji in person from time to time. They also facilitate Knowledge sessions. Beyond that I confess I have little appreciation for their activities.

I personally choose to contribute only to Visions at this time, because I feel it is extremely wonderful what they are doing with the satellite broadcasts, and I am outrageously and enthusiastically delighted that the satellite events are now unencrypted for anyone to see who has a Dish Network dish activated. One only has to call Dish and let them know that they want access to channels 9602 and 9601 -- and just tune into those channels 1:00 p.m. Pacific time on Sundays or 6:00 p.m. Thursdays for a repeat of the Sunday broadcast. To me, this is what propagation is all about -- getting the word out, and without charging money.

Yes, many things that go on give me a troubled mind, but Maharaji has given me a untroubled heart. What greater blessing could he possibly bestow? Maharaji said something to the effect that most people in the world try to live with a satisfied mind and a troubled heart, but they have it backwards: and Maharaji teaches us to live with a satisfied heart, even when the mind is troubled. I still think for myself and I really don't believe that Maharaji would ever want it any other way. I wish to emulate Maharaji only in his ability to constantly, lovingly and enthusiastically focus again and again and again on that more pure, fresh, clean and cosmic reality. Obviously the choice of the word 'cosmic' is mine, not his. He downplays that area, yet I have experienced it too clearly and too deeply not to mention it.

Cheers

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 19:33:33 (GMT)
From: Gary Epton
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: ****HILARIOUS**** A situation comedy fer sure. . .
Message:
Although it's been quite some time since I went to a local intro program here in town your post made me remember the last time I did. It was with a good time buddy o' mine. We entered the room where all the 'regulars' were silently seated - my buddy was the only new person. It was at the time when the new official missive for intro programs was no meditating in the hall (eyes closed and all that). So there everyone was just silently sitting there staring straight ahead at the tv monitor reminding me of the apes in 2001 A Space Odyssey staring at the monolith. Of course the odd person would still lapse into closing their eyes briefly then snap out of it with a beatific and determined 'following the words of the master' look on their face. My bud was smirking, chit-chatting, and rather amused at the church-like solemnity - he nodded off during the video and never returned (nor I).
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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 21:14:46 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Gary Epton
Subject: ****HILARIOUS**** yer post
Message:
You and la-ex just gave me the flavor of those uptight gatherings. You could sometimes cut it with a knife. They ought to have passed out preparation-H at the door. But if *you* were involved in setup or planning, you meditated through the knots in your stomach.

It was this zone that we were told was the 'immaculate' realm of juju maha. It became such a familiar feeling. Can you feeeeel it? The Power of Looooove! Waiting for the other shoe to drop. We wondered why no one else liked it. Duhhh!

In the old days, before M and EV/DLM realized that we premies must have appeared as if we were smoking some strange stuff, people that weren't premies would come to satsang and see M & M's wedding video -- remember that one? (Those bouncing boobies on the beach, oh vey.) Or Kathy Sisler singing on the background track for Premlata's baby video,

'ooooh, ooooh,
sweet Premlata - ah
ooooh, oooh,
weave a vine of love.

Tie our hearts,
to our Lord, please.
Thank you Maharaji
for this child.'

No wonder Kathy moved out of the residence after a while. What a mind fakkk. She was probably too smart to stay in that state of gratitude for toooo long. I suppose we could have sat around the golden toilet and shrieked, 'Thank you Maharaji for this ...'

oh, nevermind!

good one! --f

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Date: Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 03:19:37 (GMT)
From: Gary
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Fully Prostrate at the Golden Throne
Message:
I suppose we could have sat around the golden toilet and shrieked, 'Thank you Maharaji for this ...' yeah, talk about immaculate conception, but of course he was passed out, pickled and prostrate so we just kept on flushin'
Gary
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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 17:07:58 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Thanks, well done.
Message:
You captured the mentality precisely. Very funny and so true. Thanks.
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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 13:34:31 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Do you remember this???? hahahahahahha
Message:
In my community was exactly the same!

Did you ever got this 'suggestions' from EV on how to set an event? Hilarious!

Dummies

good post la-ex!

luv,

sb

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 17:07:04 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Oh My God, there it is!!!
Message:
Geez, that 'diagram' (which is apparently prepared assuming the recipients are COMPLETE idiots), lays out just what La-Ex was saying with all the people in the appropriate place (but where is the guy manning the thermostat?). Hysterical.

It really is important to inform people that you don't have to have translation if it isn't 'necessary,' because PWKs wouldn't be able to figure that out on their own. But I am AMAZED that the usher at the door (if a hotel) is OPTIONAL. I do not believe PWKs can handle having to make that decision. Mind is a big trap, you know. This just shows how far things have evolved in the Maharaji cult. I am impressed.

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 17:54:44 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: What is ridiculous
Message:
What is ridiculous is that all was done in an effort to increase propagation, to make it lift off, and it bumeranged them because it scared many premies away. Nobody wanted to do service and the ones who did did not enjoy it after a while. It gets to be so, so incredibly boring and hard to follow, especially when you work yourself to death trying to manage three or four services at the times with no results. In 15 years only three people received K in my city which shows the minute amount of interest around here and the product of propagation, which point to the bad product being offered. Kowledge is for idiots and that is what happens when a person becomes part of the cult, part of the show; very slowly reasons abandons you and stupidity caves in.

All US community, most, are very small. David Mancoff told me once that when I mentioned that this big city had only few interested premies and he responded (I gave the number, a dozen) that it was a very good number. I don't get it,except if I think that one of the beliefs maharaji smartly imparts is that ONLY FEW will get, being pure, etc. crap to make you stay.

All too sad. poor premies.Lard is a pest, as any organized religion and worse, he is God after all. Yack!

:) What a relief

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 14:07:36 (GMT)
From: Voyeur
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Do you remember this???? hahahahahahha
Message:
What's so crazy about all this is that this 'material' that they all act so secretively about, is common knowledge if (as I have done, literally hundreds of times) you are holding a business presentation to which potential clients have been invited, and there is a need to 'stay on message' as it is currently described.
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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 11:52:06 (GMT)
From: Bryn
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Excellent ! Ho ho ho. So true. Me too etc. NT
Message:
ou
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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 09:59:18 (GMT)
From: wolfie
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Joe, I swear this story is true..a little example.
Message:
Hi la-ex,

sorry I'm not so present on the scene, but I always like what you write and this story is really great. I will print it out and take it home for my wife and premiefriends. Lot's of laughter for sure, this story kills, simple as it is. Maybe I should go again to a video programm, to find some absurd material to tell it to all my new friends on EPO.

Never come empty handed, have always another absurd story for the master.

Love.....wolfie

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Date: Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 03:05:05 (GMT)
From: Curious Goerge
Email: None
To: L A Fox
Subject: Too Funny
Message:
Every time I went through this excruciating experience i always though how many premies does it take to put in a light bulb.

Too funny and so well described i thought i was there again...shudder ...shudder ...shudder. I'm going to one soon i'll keep you posted if it's lightened up yet.

Probably not. any bets?

C.G.

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 09:40:58 (GMT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Great story
Message:
I witnessed something very similar once. What I secretly enjoyed was the emcee going through the welcome speech to the intro program even though there were no new people on hand. Of course, I realized that my secret enjoyment was just a product of Mr. Mind.
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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 07:27:57 (GMT)
From: Thelma the Church Lady
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: torrential rainstorm before program and your drip
Message:
during it. Your post quite gave me a lump of nostalgia in my throat. I so miss straightening out those white table-cloths in synchronized participation. It was such a precious opportunity to serve You Know Who.

I used to be so grateful to give up all manner of boring worldly pleasures to be doing such exciting service. I felt so inspired. Thanks, la-ex, for making the effort to describe such a scintillatingly exciting night of synchronized service.

PatC: But seriously it was mind-bendingly insane. I think the synchronized paranoia - I mean participation - will drive away all but the die-hard Stepford Wives.

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 06:04:02 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: ***A Classic! A best ***** n/t
Message:
bellisimo
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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 04:43:37 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: la-ex
Subject: oh my god, please make this a ***BEST***
Message:
la-ex,

that was so, so perfect

I really felt THAT experience EXACTLY

god, that's exactly how stupid it got

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 04:40:07 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: la-ex, this is way beyond compulsive
Message:
...... it's totally insane! They are mad I tell you, MAD!!!!!

I can hardly believe it but I trust you. Atomic clock?!? There's gotta be a Monty Python type screenplay in this somewhere. I love the idea that the ISCL's wife got up and introduced the evening to the two of you. What a synchronistically executed waste of time. Lemmings marching lockstep towards the abyss.

Of course, now that I've picked myself up off the floor from falling over laughing, it's so obvious. What you describe is precisely the same mentality as someone ordering Sir Dave to guard the moldy cheddar in the refrigerator at a program years ago. Nothing has changed.

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 15:26:05 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Richard, Dimming the lights is soooo blissful...
Message:
I did it twice a couple of years ago!

My gawd, it was so awful, so stiff, so contrived...like stepford people.

The hilarious part was the emcee of the video programs. 'Data' on Star Trek-Next Generation has more personality than they did. And to emcee a video with two premies sitting there was absolutely nuts! And still no one spoke to eachother, weirdo stuff indeed.

Talk about chills up my spine. I bet they are told to use breath mints too, but then, they don't need them if they can't talk!

Sheesh!

Cynthia

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 16:02:31 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Richard, Dimming the lights is soooo blissful...
Message:
I used to go to video events in Bellevue (near Seattle). The highlight was chatting with Steve T., a human who I knew from Denver and our very own Mercedes' wonderful smile. Otherwise as the lights faded, so did I - as the lights came back up, so did I. Very nice nap but otherwise like Sunday school. I'd look around at the regulars afterwards and they were in a sort of, 'zoned out - don't enter my aura vibe'.
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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 04:46:01 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Richard
Subject: la-ex did not exaggerate - that's how it was (nt)
Message:
asdf
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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 03:04:58 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: but he can show up when he wants
Message:
It's all too weird, given the only reason anyone goes is to see him. Too bad the students didn't tell David where to stick the tickets.
Your story of sitting with your friend after the program was very vivid. Premies should ask themselves exactly who they are comfortable bringing to see M, or who they are not and why.
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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 00:52:06 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: OCD
Message:
I think Maharaji is probably suffering from a certain amount of Obsessive/Compulsive Disorder and the obsession with being on time is just a reflection of that. This then filters down to everyone else in the organization, hence the frantic rushing about to be on time down to the second. Aren't there tales of his obsessive hand washing after having been in a public place? (I'm not sure of this myself, just heard stuff second hand here.) That's another sure sign, I think. Anybody that knows something about OCD can probably elaborate more.

That, coupled with extreme narcissism, as Richard mentioned, in that he really and truly believes he's more divine than the rest of us and people should obey his every single wish accordingly, resulting in megalomania.

In a half-hearted attempt at propagation, right around the time I was leaving the cult, I remember asking a woman I worked with if she'd want to come hear him speak in person and she said she'd rather stay home and clean her bathroom floor and organize her sock drawer than go hear him. She had the right perspective!

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:54:43 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Joy
Subject: it starts on time right down to the atomic second
Message:
Maharaji has bragged how his events start at exactly the right second, right down to the atomic second that he has everyone set their watches and computers to.

at the events I've seen computer gear that has a screen with when the exact start and end time for each song and how long they are. And then for Maharaji's slot there is only a start time.

And that's one reason why there is no live music anymore. It's all muszak from the can. Maharaji says because it's easier on the singers and everyone, but the real reason must be his compulsiveness.

Gotta love all of the care and attention.

Shit, Maharaji is one sick motherfucker. How absolutely pathetic.

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 04:19:41 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Soap! I Cleaned His Toilet, Christ! UGH!!!
Message:
Hi Roger,

You're right about his atomic timing. He comes and goes as he pleases, because he's a complete asshole!

At Deca I took care of two offices and one bathroom of his. The first small office was in the little warehouse.

At the ''complex,'' he had an Executive Suite that was off of the Design Room. It had a large comfy conference room that lead to his office, which had a powder room. There was also a playroom off of his office for the kids.

I was in charge of maintaining the impeccibility of his office. The whole ''raking the rug bullshit'' shit, clearing off the desk, cleaning his toilet (UGH!) and replacing his soap. He did seem to be hyperactive because he would string paper clips together and leave them on his desk. He never did anything on his desk except doodle, make a mess with paper, tear pieces of paper apart, doodle.

I know he did a lot of complaining based on the color of Jim Hession's face after a meeting with his royal high ASS!

You're right about the time thing.

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 17:38:42 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Jim Hession
Message:
Cynthia, what were your impressions of this guy?

I had two major encounters. When I was Community Coordinator in DC, Hession flew into town and we set out in a flurry of activity to arrange for Maharaji's plane (this was before the 707 was completed, so it must have been a rented Leer or something), to land in the USA. Hession arrived and hadn't slept in days. I drove him to Dulles Airport and he slept hunched over in his seat the entire way. We made some kind of arrangements for M's arrival at Dulles.

We also had to raise thousands of dollars in cash to pay for various arrangements for M upon arrival. I remember I asked Reggie Brown and his wife to 'loan' DLM thousands of dollars in cash. Being the devoted premies they were, they went immediately to the bank and withdrew the money.

Anyhow, Hession did not seem human to me. He was crazed.

I guess based partly on my interactions with Hession over all this, shortly thereafter, Hession requested that I be sent to DECA, which I did NOT want to do, because I liked DC so much. But, I went. That's when I worked in the legal department and tried to get DECA compliant with the various workplace laws, which it was violating all over the place. I prepared lists of things like licenses and insurance that we needed to get, with no response. Then, one day, Hession fired me implying that I 'didn't know how to serve Guru Maharaj Ji.' It was very weird.

I do recall Hession going through the ringer in meetings with Maharaji. In fact, he was one of the people I witnessed Maharaji sadistically abuse about the Hans Jayanti stage, that I reported earlier.

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 20:55:57 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Jim Hession
Message:
Hi Joe,

Jim Hession was always decent to me and others around me. I pretty much worked directly under him and Guy Rollins as their admin. assistant. Maharaji had him under so much intense pressure because he was the so-called head of the Deca project, plus he was also responsible for many other things. He was completely maxed out and burnt. He was crazed because of goober's unbelievable demands upon him, IMO.

He blushed a lot. I mean a lot. But he was a true believer, too, just like me and so many of us. He wanted to please the creep, and let's face it, there is no pleasing him. Rev Do-Bad's incessant demands, which, once given to Jim or Guy Rollins, had to be delegated to the rank and file premies who worked at the project.

I think he was just another brainwashed, programmed premie who wanted to please his Lard. He probably fired you because you were pointing out illegalities which he (Jim) could not bring to Maharaji and Virgil as an issue. It's possible Virgil was the one to recommend firing you (just a speculation). Virgil was an incredible bastard to everyone! Christ, Joe, you were rocking the boat back then--NOT ACCEPTABLE!:)) They didn't want anyone asking questions, Joe, and you were doing the right thing (also not acceptable)!

I don't defend Jim's behavior. I only know how he was around me and others I worked with. I know m put him and Guy through the ringer every day, and they were trying to obey him. This goes back to the ''impeccibility'' factor, too. At the time, we all felt quite fortunate to be soooo clooose to the goob. It was a darshan lover's dream.

When I think back on it all, nothing makes sense, and I can't find explanations except we were deluded into believing we were doing something righteous for the lard.

Jim did have a temper at times, though never directed at me. He also seemed to like the power of his position at the time, too. He and Guy and their families spent time at the residence, etc. You know how the spiritual ego happens in that cult.

So, I agree, he was crazed, but I think by Maharaji, and Maharaji's impossible demands. I'll think about this some more...Guy was a very meek and quiet person and usually deferred to Jim. They both were stuck in the messy soup of m's agya. They had a lot of meetings in private in Guy's office, usually after a meeting with m. This was at the complex, and Guy's office had a window so red faces were glowing a lot of the time.

Cynthia

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 11:02:14 (GMT)
From: Archie Bunker
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Cult Events and 'terlets' for M
Message:
In my long career as a cult member, I was often graced with low level Service opporchancities to help prepare the VENUE for You Know Who's arrival. I was given such services as gopher and christmas light stringer(to prepare a path for M in the darkened back stage area.

I have memories of seeing premies preparing and cleaning the toilet M would use....they would actually clean with toothbrushes. Such consciousness !

I always wondered what the regular staff at the venue thought about this.

Mr. Mind

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 22:25:36 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Joe
Subject: time to quit when you can't bring in new people
Message:
I was in the stupid cult for nearly 25 years.

As time went on I found it more and more impossible to ever consider inviting anyone to a 'program'. And consider that it was easier to invite someone to a 'public' program where Maharaji was speaking than a dumb old video hosted by a small army of zombies.

And why couldn't I consider inviting anyone?

Because the whole thing became very, very stupid as Joe's story clearly indicates.

Because the whole thing was based on Maharaji and the little lie that he was who he was and who he wasn't and what he wasn't supposed to be and whatever.

It's so fucking lame to believe so deeply in something so hoaky that the only people whom you would consider inviting would be some really whackos who don't have much of anything to lose because you know that any of 'real' people wouldn't have anything to do with it.

God, what kind of lame-ass loser philosophy is that? Sick and dysfunctional! Oh well, at least the programs and the trains will start and run on time.

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:19:41 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: you can't bring in new people - Amen
Message:
I went back in after dropping out for a while because I thought Rev Rawat was the only source of something that I enjoyed and wanted others to enjoy. It took me a year to figure out that I could not invite any of my friends because they were all much happier and saner than most of the premies.

I just had an email from one of the local premies saying I was full of shit to criticise Rawat on FV, because, he adds, ''M has helped me so much in spite of sometimes feeling suicidally full of doubts.''

DUH!

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 20:12:17 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: that is truly tragic, Pat, and no kidding
Message:
'M has helped me so much in spite of sometimes feeling suicidally full of doubts.'

Chances are that if that poor soul had never heard of M, suicide would never have raised its head as an option.

All that dependence on the 'master'. What's it lead to? Either more of the same (as in super-glued dependence) or an unstable emotional state in which even suicide can seem preferable to leaving.

That Maharaji feller is seriously bad news. I'm surprised the health authorities don't slap some kind of warning on him. 'Danger: Dependence on Maharaji is addictive'. 'Knowledge can kill'.

Though he sells himself and 'his' knowledge as some kind of answer to life's problems, the truth of it is that many people find themselves entrapped in a mind-set that sucks them in and won't let go.

And all the while he encourages them NOT to let go!

Is that what they mean by anal-retentive, or am I asking the wrong guy (thinks - didn't you say you wore a colostomy bag? Ooooops. Bad joke. I hope?)

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 23:35:48 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Be grateful...................for your anus, Chris
Message:
It's a much maligned organ which is actually perfectly designed for its job. It is conveniently placed, efficiently functional and much under-appreciated. And now for my ''Ode to My Colostomy Bag''.............I'll spare you.
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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 03:53:38 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: you can't bring in new people - Amen
Message:
Kind of like: Hey Crack? How do I cut my crack intake down to 3 grams a day so I'm not contemplating sticking a 45 in my yap? Drop back to 2 and a half! Wow !Thanks crack!
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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:46:18 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: PatC
Subject: M has saves lives, but it's those suicidal doubts
Message:
that will get you everytime.

It's sad, but true.

And it's because everyone knows that there is something wrong with the Big Show that they really cannot mention publically.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 18:23:06 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I remember that mess well
Message:
I didn't have it straight which program it was, but I remember some program not beginning on time and people being herded around and treated like idiots. It was hard for everyone. And I vaguely remember Smith and others running around waving their arms.

You are right -- the attention to detail obscures looking at the big picture. People who get caught in this trap aren't successful in business or in life. The old can't see the forest for the trees thing. Unfortunately, on top of everything else, I think the lard has obsessive-compulsive disorder. This is an awful disorder that can have people fighting just to function.

There was a recent employment case in the US somewhere where a worker's disorder became so complete that she sometimes couldn't get to work (she had elaborate rituals that have to do with dressing and grooming), or couldn't get there for enough hours per day because of the rituals. There have been stories of people who are paralyzed by the fear of what will happen if they don't clean their house enough before they go to work, so they actually start calling in sick, or come in late because of the disorder.

It seems that he may have it, along with a huge ego. One thing is for certain, he certainly is a match to gasoline as far as encouraging that sort of debilitating, paralyzing, compulsive behavior in others. Uggghhh! Good post.

love, f

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 20:16:42 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Yeah, marge hates mess and probably fears it..
Message:
You may be right, Francesca about the obsessive-compulsive symtpoms. There have been a few posts over recent years, from people who have watched him close up, of Maharaji's apparent fear of germs and never wanting to open a door for himself. (Not in the sense of needing a servant to do everything for him, but in his reluctance to touch a strange door handle.) As I said, there have only been a few such reports of this since few premies get close enough to observe this behaviour first hand but it fits your analysis perfectly. I wonder if Michael Dettmers could comment on this...?

Very Howard Hughes, though. Reclusive millionaire with obsessive fear of many things - not least his own mortality. How he'll deal with his own star waning and the cult crumbling is anyone's guess.

Time to finally face those germs, I reckon.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 23:08:32 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: I think Donner had a story
Message:
Nigel:

I believe Donner had a story in one of the threads about spontaneously shaking margey's hand, and margey acting really strange, like Donner had cooties or something. I recall that Donner said something about M holding his hand funny after that, almost like he had to go wash it.

I could be wrong, but your description triggered my memory of the hand shaking incident. I don't have a bookmark to Sir Dave's awesome search engine on this computer so I'm not sure exactly where it is.

Kind of reminds me of an eccentric old woman downtown who wears socks over her hands, even in the summertime. She kind of shuffled around downtown. She may have gotten too old to do her walks, because I haven't seen her for a while.

Cheers, and don't hurry on that RT tape. You've got some mending to do. I've been in very minor scrapes and they were scary enough.

--f

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:04:50 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Hi Fran--I came to the same conclusion=OCD
Message:
Hi Francesca,

I put my post up above without reading through the thread to see what others had to say (not always the best policy when posting!), and looks like you beat me to the suggestion of OCD. It could explain his obsessive collecting of materialistic things such as watches and automobiles, couldn't it? Since he has almost unlimited means at his disposal (thanks to all the willing slaves) his compulsions to acquire bigger and better and more know no ends.

If he can't handle shaking hands with people, I wonder how he handles the germs from thousands of them kissing his feet? But then maybe he's developed this phobia FROM thousands of people kissing his feet, a fear of being touched by strangers? I wouldn't be surprised. Just attempting a little armchair psychoanalysis/speculation here.

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 07:39:44 (GMT)
From: Nick
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Hi Fran--I came to the same conclusion=OCD
Message:
It's been a long time since I kissed the feet, but I seem to remember M wearing socks (which were pretty grubby by the time I got there).

A few days ago my eldest son (26) was talking with a work colleague and somehow they found out that they were both children of premies. He rang me up later in the evening to tell me about this and towards the end of the conversation he asked me whether we (my wife and I) had ever made him kiss M's feet - I think he was totally shocked that such things went on.

As a parent I know I got lots of things wrong, but it was to my true delight that I was able to tell him that I would never have inflicted that upon him. After the call, I couldn't help but ponder the psychological damage I might have caused by forcing him to conform to these practices. The relief in his voice was palapble when I assured him his lips were still pure!

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 15:42:07 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Nick
Subject: Wow Nick -- M free lips!
Message:
Always like the stories of children of premies. Although I have no children, I have a curiosity as to what was inflicted on them. Of course, your story brings me relief!

I do know there is a lot of mindbending in all religions, so ex-premies should not get too far into guilt tripping. The Catholic church did a number on me. Of course, even that church is not quite the same as it was when I was a child. That being said, the pope JUST recently apologized to the Orthodox Catholics. Oy! After all these centuries, what the hell good is that? It does very little good for all the people who died so long ago there aren't even any bones left.

--f

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 18:03:50 (GMT)
From: Free
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: The Looks, the appearence of heaven
Message:
Get a laugh. I had to type and print in a rush invitations for a public event and I thought I did a pretty good job. The invitations were placed on the information table and at some point a premie starts laughing very loud while reading it. I wrote: You Are Invited to A Pubic Event. ROFL!! PUBIC. Where is the L???

There was such a neurotic way of doing things perfect, always. It took three people five hours to make a pillow for maharaji's feet at a program. Can you imagine making a pillow with no wrinkles?

All in his world is centered in creating a stage to appear inmaculate and innocent, nevertheless now as ex-premies we know there is nothing clean about his cult of dirty deceipt.

In Argentina he chew premie's up for not caring properly for some trees at La Tierra del Amor and the trees where dying, and he got angry at the premies when in reality it was his fault. I was myself at the land and knowing landscaping is obvious that its soil sucks. It was his mistake to buy such a cheap land. Maharaji bragged in a video that he bought La Tierra del Amor because it was cheap and you think he would have some brains to blame himself for the trees not growing, but no. It was the premies fault that they were dying. I will like to know what happened in that community because I heard that premies responsible for it got very sad and felt guilty, when it was not even their fault: The soil is sandy and full of clay which doesn't allow well drainage and their roots got rotten. There you have it. Our full of compassion, all knowing god, maharaji. He was viciously angry. I have somewhere the video. It was a participation one. Is all about appearing classy and good, because then he can brag and manipulate others to serve to. Do you remember when he in almost every program used to tell people how all gets done and invited them to be part of it? Money baby!! Good bussiness man the lard.

(I want my money back still!!!)

Good post Joe. :)

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 20:36:53 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Free/Joe
Subject: The Looks, the appearence of heaven
Message:
You are so right. It's all about the *appearance' of things. It's like dysfunctional families where mom and dad are obsessed with looking perfect to the world but things are very dark indeed behind closed doors.

I really think premies' brains are affected so that they can't see the big picture. All that meditating and stuff makes a person lose their sense of direction (Joy said Margaret Singer said this about M's cult and it's so true). IF they saw the big picture they would be out of there. So there you have it, they are doomed to be like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off, responding to M's 'crisis managerial style,' not seeing the forest for the trees, and taking the blame for M's neurotic demands.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 20:40:17 (GMT)
From: Free
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: You got it!! NT
Message:
SB
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 18:11:15 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: planetqwerty@postmaster.co.uk
To: Free
Subject: willing to transcribe that video for you, Free
Message:
and show his 'viciously angry' manipulation to all.

(email above)

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 18:03:44 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Narcissism
Message:
Your story is a very good example of how 'ye shall know him by his fruits'. Uptight, Nazi, frantic, blaming, angry. I also remember taking some interested professional people to an intro night at the Alton Road offices on Miami Beach mid-80's. A friend was giving the pep talk and I cringed at how uptight he was attempting to say just the right thing. Seeing M's world through another's eyes was an early 'drip' but I thought selfishly 'at least I don't have to go through that to get knowledge'. I cannot fathom what it must be like now.

I think all of the anal retentivness (impeccability requirement) is a deep need of the premies to be 'perfect'. It was for me and ultimately almost fried me until I accepted my imperfections and started living. Possibly it's because of childhood emotional wounds that drives someone to seek a perfect world free from the wounding or a narcissist's not liking his/her reflection - whatever. M - the perfect narcissist who only wants his reflection to be perfect - plays on that, giving people an ever higher bar of impeccability. The fact is (and pardon my yelling) YOU WILL NEVER REACH THE GOAL OF PERFECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!. M hasn't and you won't , so STOP TRYING AND REALLY ENJOY YOUR LIFE BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE, TOO LATE!!!!!

Man, I feel better now.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 20:41:46 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Narcissism
Message:
God, Richard, you are so right. That need for perfection drove me crazy too. Being the perfect spiritual person is such a heavy trip. It's too much of a burden to place on a human being IMO. I now settle for 'pretty darn good' and run the other way when religious people tell me what I must do to be a real 'Christian' or a real believer etc. I run for them thar hills! I agree--enjoy life in all its imperfectness before it's too late! The bar was raised too high and the expectations were too much.

I think that now in my life, to be a fair and decent human being is as high as I can muster. That's enough of a stretch, no need to attain sainthood anymore!

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 21:42:48 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: 'Sainthood' - qu'est-ce que c'est?
Message:
Well said, Helen. And I think you could go further still - I mean this whole notion of 'sainthood' (what's THAT when it's at home?!) being attainable and embodied in either the attention to devotions and dogma, or via pretend illumination under the blanket (I prefer torch and comics;)

As I said (or at least meant) in my thread post lower down if anyone deserves the 'saint' label it can only be measured in behaviour focused at the general good of others. In those terms atheists can be saints too (eg. Nehru), not that they'd want to be described as such, of course.

Anything else carrying those colours is a pile of ego-wank, IMO.

Not so much the bar being set too high as set up in the wrong sports arena, or something...

BTW: I'll email you with news and stuff soon.
Best,
Nige

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 00:14:20 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: 'Sainthood' - qu'est-ce que c'est?
Message:
Yeah, that sainthood thing is very, very hard to define. There is this guy at my old church, an atheist guy, who is the most clear-minded guy you will ever meet. He organizes all kinds of stuff for the men's homeless shelter and is always reaching out to other people. He's honest about his emotions, his wife recently died and he will tell you he is sad and lonely and that it is hard, yet he is still getting out and living each day and embracing the new. This guy has got to be almost 70.

Who is to say that he isn't a saint? He is to me. When I see him, I just feel good. He makes me feel cared for and he is interested in what I have to say. He is engaged in living and has values that are good. Yet he wouldn't qualify for traditional sainthood because he believes the notion of God is vanity on the part of man. Yet he is the one I would like to emulate, not the one who sits in an ashram, detached from humanity petal, waiting for wisdom to drip from the Master's feet. That one, I say, is a fool, not a saint.

Those saints who were crazy for the love of God, well maybe they were just crazy. Or maybe they did have a clue, I don't know, I don't know them personally. But I do know Charlie (the guy from my old church). Look forward from hearing from you! Hope everything is good with you.
Helen

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:19:29 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Enlightenment
Message:
I think the whold idea of enlightenment, which is what M is ultimately pushing (realization of Knowledge) is a waste of time. Has anyone actually ever attained enlightenment (apart from the past major incarnations, of course, and that's certainly subject to lots of debate)?

I used to look at some of the higher-up more devotional premies/initiators and think that if they couldn't do it, what chance did lowly old I have of ever doing it?

Then when I studied Buddhism and got acquainted with all the theories about how many lifetimes it can take to achieve it, I just felt defeated and why bother?

I agree with you Helen, that being integrated with life and being a *good* person is what sainthood and enlightenment is all about and the best we can strive for.

As Van Morrison sang: 'Enlightenment, don't know what it is'. (one of my favorite of his songs and albums)

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 20:39:25 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Enlightenment vs Judeo Christian perspective
Message:
The Judeo Christian ideal seems to be that we can only try our best, and the Judeo Christian perspective seems to be that saints are formed by God's grace. So I don't think we have to worry too much abotu being saints.

The Buddhist and Hindu stuff kind of makes me feel hopeless too, that detachment thing is just not human-centered and healthy and the idea of all those lifetimes just makes me tired. I don't want to come back!!!!

Just read a book of the novelist Walker Percy's essays, which contains some very interesting essays on why he became Catholic. He has alot to say about the enduring qualities of Judeo-Christian thought, especially the fact that the individual is respected. I just love that guy. He's so brilliant, he makes me want to sit down and write.

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 02:08:03 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Enlightenment
Message:
Here I am in my next life as a lowly bug. I think I like it here!!!
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 18:30:45 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: This is a classic cause of suicide, as well
Message:
I have read that a high profile for suicide is a first born child who has a parent (especially a mother) that they slavishly try to please, and can never seen to please. Add the fact that the child is a perfectionist, and which came first, the chicken or the egg?

I fit the profile but lived through it. The suicides don't just happen during say, the teens. If the pattern keeps repeating itself, the suicide can happen later in life, but the seeds were sown in early childhood.

So I went from a parent I couldn't please in my childhood (she's since mellowed out and is quite pleased with me, and all of her children), to a few years break and many years with a lard I couldn't please. As with the abuse patterns we've already discussed, this is another neurosis he sucked us right into.

double yuck. And feel free to YELL all YA WANT!

--love, f

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 20:46:24 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: This is a classic cause of suicide, as well
Message:
So true. The unpleasable parent. What a a trap that is. Older children have it rough, IMO, and usually end up in this role, as 'overfunctioners', who must always be perfect, and never make a mistake. So nice to be one of the flakey younger children in my family--ha ha! No seriously, I get anxious watching people try so hard to please their unpleasable parents, working themselves to the bone. SOmetimes the bond between a child and their abusive/unpleasable parent is so strong that it's unhealthy. Hard to break out of it--glad your mom mellowed out.
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 21:01:27 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: You are on to something important here H and F
Message:
Suicide as a result of perfectionism plus the unpleasable parent tie-in. Very interesting pathology that many of us portrayed.

I'm struck by how, in effect, I committed social suicide - I 'killed' the old me so I could be reborn as a 'perfect' spiritual person. I was no longer Richard the mediocre son, I became Richard the devotee of the Perfect Master. This was the 'ego must die' myth that was perpetrated by the hard core seekers of the day and still is implied, if subtly. Only M is important and if you lack understanding then you are unsychronized = in your mind. Thank God I didn't have to wear orange robes or change my name to SatGanga or Mahatma GuruPujanand.

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 00:06:54 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: social suicide, so, so true... n/t
Message:
n/t
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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 00:05:52 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: You are on to something important here H and F
Message:
Dying to ourselves is something I think we all did. We tried to die to ourselves and avoid whatever identity work we should have been doing in our 20s. Instead of coming to terms with how your parents made you feel mediocre, following M made you feel like you were someone who had a major clue. I had the opposite problem. My parents had VERY rarified goals for all of their children. Far from being mediocre, we were expected to be first rate artists and writers. Lo and behold the real world with its rough rules set in, and I was ill-equipped to deal with life on life's terms. So I avoided all the messy questions by following M. I'm still trying to deal with those messy questions and trying to write for me rather than for my father. Isn't life messy?
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 23:18:54 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: Not to mention Mahatma Gitanand
Message:
Richard:

Now there's a name! Don't go to the UK with that one! Interesting thought, the social suicide. And the concept of being reborn as something we're not--really. There's a lot of wiggle room there also. Hmmmm. Hard to come out of it too, after spending anywhere from 10 - 25 years as a hard core member of a cult. But come out of it we did!

It seems like I was born having to be myself, and I've spent hecka time trying to avoid it. I had to be something more perfect, after all. Like, uh like, like .... a devotee of the perfect Master, perhaps!

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:44:59 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Mahatma Gitanand
Message:
What about him? I remember him as a very cute 19 yr old with an almost square skull who was begging m. to go to the west when I was in India in '72.
Eventually he made it and I guess he did not do very well. He was quite frank about his difficulty about sex, seeing all these very attractive women in for him very provocative outfits. I don't know what happened but eventually he got kicked out. I have seen him the last time in Essen, Germany in civilian clothes. he looked very overwhelmed.('77??)
I don't know if he did bad things, but I still have warm feelings for him and I think he did not have a clue what he was in for...
Anybody knows what became of him?
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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 09:38:00 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: Mahatma Gitanand
Message:
Hi Bob

For about 6 months before I got knowledge I used to do full time service in the upstairs cafe at the Palace of Peace. I carried on for a little while after getting knowledge before moving into an ashram.

Anyway, as a result, I used to see all the mahatmas and celebs because the kitchen was next door to the mahatmas flat.So , for example, I was around when mahatma Ved pravaktanand was tied up and gagged by ashokand and Glen et al. We ( mainly a really nice girl called Julie and myself) were told to keep it all hush hush.Ved was really ' freaking out ' as we used to say :) Some sexual indiscretions on his part but I didn't get to know the full details. I think he was shipped off back to India ( not sure if it was Fedex or DHL :)) )

Anyway ..I'm rambling, sorry ....Gitanand.....I know he's had a bit of flak from this forum somewhere or other but he was the ONLY one of the mahatmas I kinda liked. Mainly because I felt a bit sorry for him. The poor guy was clearly out of his depth in the west. He was a genuine Indian ' peasant' boy ( I did actually manage to talk to him once about things). He was pretty much un-educated and plucked from an Indian village circa 15th/ 16th century and plonked into East Dulwich, 20th century with a bunch of ex-acid head Guji fanatics.

Yeah, I think he liked the ladies.....the last thing I heard , he was de-robed by the fat one because he was having a fling with a German premie. I think he eventually married her. Not sure if they lived happily ever after and had a bunch of Indo German kiddies.

I'm sure that snobby shithole Yogaand gave Gitaanad a pretty hard time. Probably Yoganand is a Brahmin ( not certain, just guessing )and Gitanand is probably of low caste....maybe not 'untouchable' but pretty close.

Incidentally, fuck face Yogaanad was the one who revealed the k to me. I guess after a few months of trying to get a 'pranam' out of me he gave up in desperation. He used to really get off on people pranaming to him and begging for k. Due to our close proximity we used to brush by each other many a time. I remember one particular time rushing up the stairs to do something or other and nearly knocking him over as he was descending .....I thought of 'begging' him and ' pranaming' then thought, fuck it. We just eyeballed each other and continued on our way :)

When I was eventually chosen ( after months of brainwashing haha ) he didn't pick me out individually. He just swept his arms about and chose a section from the group. At the time I figured guji chops was teaching me humility....I wasn't worthy to be individually chosen so he used yoganand as channel and selected me as an afterthought :)

Funnily enough Yoganad was one of the first to flip out when the Holy , Divine being Durga Ji arrived on the scene. By that time I was in Leicester ashram and working for Divine Sales in a shop and city market stall. The news actually made it into the Daily Mirror national newspaper. I thought it was pretty cool. Yoganand was staying at Leicester ashram for a few days. I rememeber him being totally gobsmacked by the news. I can still picture it now.....Yogashit holding up the Daily Mirror ..... 'what's this ?? what's this ?? The Lord of the Universe marrying an American Airline hostess ?? !! ....I guess all his hindu basis for living was removed by that one event ! He reminded me of the computer HAL (2001) .....losing it.

Ahhh those great souls we crazy western barbarians were so graced to encounter !! Memeories are made of this .....sweet sweet the memories you gave me ......sweet sweet the memeories you gave me.

Best Wishes

Dermot

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 08:50:55 (GMT)
From: wolfie
Email: wolfgang.oed@stadt.erlangen de
To: Bob
Subject: Mahatma Gitanand
Message:
Hi Bob and everyone who will read!

I know Gitanand was a very funny character. For me he looked like how the young Buddha would have looked like once according to my imagination.I Remember him once going to Rome, he was joking all time with everyone who was coming his way. He tried to explain the busdriver why all this crazy guys go to Rome to see their Guru. 'Oh yeah Italians love Spaghetti and we love our Guru' I think the bus driver understands that we are at least some people who still like jokes and laughter.
But he seems not allways so funny, and maybe his humor allready was a need to stand all this absurdity he was in.
What we heard we heard was that he fell in love with the Ashramummy from Frankfurt ( or Manheim/Hidelberg) but it did't worke out and he freaked out. The next thing I heard was that he commited suicide. This was a schock for us premies cause we still believed at this time, that a Mahatma is a realized soul (whatever this might be, somehow something wonderfull) But stupid as we were, we found a simple explanation:' He failed to hold on to M. and the result was that his soul broke in 1000 pieces, so that even M. could not put it together again.

But now comes the interesting part of what I know, cause I was present when Jagdeo talked about it. Gitanand wanted to speak with M. but M. does not want to speak personally with Gitanand, so they arranged a phonesession where Jagdeo was in the middle.
M was on one end of a phoneline, Jagdeo in the middle, and on another phone poor young Gitanand. But how Jagdeo presented this story to us humble followers of Lord M. was in a way, so that we could be deeply impressed by the compassion M. has even with fallen mahatmas. This explanation filled us again with divine understanding, so that no further questions had come up. During the following years I tried to get some information to hear something about Gitanand. So far I know he stayed or stays in Frankfurt, had or stil has a hard time to make his living. I once saw him, sad, broken, with a plasicbag and I was to shy to talk with him. This would never happen I think cause I'm now much clearer abuot this whole trip. I've overcome this insecure feeling towards anything that has to do with M and my premiebrothers and sisters. No need to run no need to hide.

warm regards to everyone out ther in the world wide web
.....wolfie

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Date: Sat, May 12, 2001 at 16:59:39 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: Danke schon, wolfie. Empfang. (nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 23:03:42 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: Mahatma Gitanand - can you confirm this?
Message:
You said he commited suicide. Do you know this for certain? Where did this happen?

I ask because he first taught me how to meditate, not that I do it much these days.

John.

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Date: Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 07:51:25 (GMT)
From: wolfie
Email: wolfgang.oed@stadt. erlangen.de
To: JHB
Subject: Mahatma Gitanand - can you confirm this?
Message:
Hi JHB,

Yes I can confirm this, I think a lot of people in Frankfurt know this. I don't know the exact circumstances and I can't remember the name of the ashramummy. But I remember clearly the story Jagdeo told us, that M did't want to speak with Gitanand in the hospital, so one of the three arranged the strange phonesession I think it was Jagdeo who tried to make it possible that Gitanand could somhow get some connection to his Boss. How I remember, M said something cross Jagdeo like: gitanand should promise to do it never again. Jagdeo told this story in that sense, how much M cares, even the Lord himsself comes such a long way down to take care for a fallen Mahatma.

today I wonder, that I took this without any further questions
.........wolfie

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Date: Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 19:35:09 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: broken english -- boy Mahatma abuse
Message:
wolfie,

Is that short for Wolfgang? Anyway, please continue to join us on the forum. Broken engish is OK -- I've been on other international forums.

Sorry to hear about Gitanand. We now see that M's little crop of boy Mahatmas were also abused by being given that title and sent to the West. So young and sincere. I know Parlokanand, my Mahatma came over at 19. He was said on this forum to be a pedophile, and also got in trouble for having a girlfriend.

I suppose M thought it was cute, 14 year old guru with young bald saffron-robed wise men. I am so sorry for all of them, and hope they are as OK as they can be for going through that experience.

--f

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Date: Fri, May 11, 2001 at 10:44:30 (GMT)
From: wolfie
Email: wolfgang.oed@stadt.erlangen.de
To: Francesca
Subject: broken english -- boy Mahatma abuse
Message:
Hi Francesca,

yes wolfie is the schortform of Wolfgang. But normally only teachers in school call me with that name, specially when they got mad with me.
Of course I will continue to join on the forum. Sometimes it's hard for me to understand all this double meanings properly, sometimes I'm not so sure that I get the right sense out of the messages. But the important things I understand. We all had more or less the same background. We were at the same time on the same places and even maybe we know our faces. I started with Millenium 73 and my last Programm was Amaroo 97 and there I really got sceptical about all this.
Since I've found the forum 4 month ago, I'm busy to try to sort things out to clear my bitter sweet history with M and the premies.

This Gitanand story is sad. It is tremendious, what lake of normal human behavior is evitent in this story and I'm included.
But it shows me how blocked and insecure I was, to communicate my personnel thoughts and feeling, in this time.

Hope my process of learning goes on. And I'm glad to have all this people here on the forum.

So now the weekend is waiting for me. At home I don't have very much chance to use the computer, because my son is busy with it. So I take 2 days vacation from the forum. The weather is sunny and I'like to spent some time out in the greenery.

ciao ......wolfie

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Date: Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 09:00:30 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: Do you mean he tried but failed to commit suicide?
Message:
It is not clear. Was he in hospital because he recovered from a suicide attempt? Is he still alive?

Bless his saffron socks. He taught me that the nectar technique would develop my inner strength and that I needed to be strong when I was very blue once upon a time.

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Date: Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 15:37:16 (GMT)
From: wolfie
Email: wolfgang.oed@stadt.erlangen.de
To: PatC
Subject: he recoverded from his suicide attempt
Message:
Hi PatC,

sorry for being unclear,this is a languageproblem that blocks me anyway from writing on the forum. Sometimes I did't get the jokes and sometimes it takes to long, besides my work to get the deeper sense ( so far any is there )
It' funny in my lunchbreak this day I thougt to comment your statement, that you don't have a help for free in your restaurant. I thougt I do it three days for free, if there is the chance to have this doggy darshan. I'm right that you live in San Francisco? I never was there? But anyway i like to be in my little town with a lot of friends, so far it is not wintertime.

Okay back to Gitanand. He was in the hospital recovering from a suicide attempt. Last things I heard from him, that he tries hard to make his living and that he even tries to support his family in India

Don't get rusty in your armchair, you won't anyway
ciao ........wolfie

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Date: Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 17:35:36 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: Thanks, wolfie
Message:
I did realize that it was a language problem and had guessed that is what you meant but I prefer to know than to guess. So, thanks for explaining.

And let me know if you ever come to San Francisco so that I can feed you and give you doggy darshan. ;)

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Date: Fri, May 11, 2001 at 03:38:46 (GMT)
From: Chef Boy-Arti
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Thanks, wolfie
Message:
And let me know if you ever come to San Francisco so that I can feed you and give you doggy darshan.
If you serve him German Shepherd's Pie you could honour his homeland, feed him, and give him darshan all in one shot. Just an idea.
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Date: Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 13:32:29 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: I hope he failed to commit suicide
Message:
He gave me k in 1974. he also stayed at my flat when he visited Jerusalem and I drove him around Israel in 1975.
He told me that was made mahatma at 15. I don't think here stood a chance over here.
I last saw him in 1975 at Essen. I recognised him hiding under a beautiful flock of black hair and thick black mustauche(sp?). When I grabbed his arm to say hello, he pulled away looking very very very lost.
I sincerely hope he is still alive and hope Wolfie will clarify his posts.

Jethro

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 15:51:35 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: Thanks wolfie
Message:
Wolfie,

That was a hearbreaking story. And to think the only reason I was saying Mahatma Gitanand was to make a joke. Git, as in silly git is a brit term, or used to be, in the 70s. So it was funny to have a Mahatma with that name.

From your story, not very funny at all. And your reactions would have been my own. Now we see that some of these young Mahatmas were also the victims. Brought into this other culture at a young age, put on a pedestal at a time when a lot of the premies were still getting over 'free love,' and expected to survive. Chilling, really.

Thanks again,

love, f

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 09:50:22 (GMT)
From: Dermot
Email: None
To: wolfie
Subject: Wolfie, just read your post after posting mine
Message:
That's sad if Gitanand ended up as a down and out eventual suicide. God ! I knew so many decent people who ended up topping themselves as a result of crossing paths with that fucking guru rawat.

I'm sure now that rawat doesnt care about the 'dregs' of humanity he's helped to fuck up along the way.

Those ' dregs' deserve more love and respect than ......what an asshole I was to reserve love and respect for him. OUCH !!!!!!

Cheers

Dermot

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 05:37:26 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: toe kissing,arti+bad breath at amarro-what's up?
Message:
does all this devotion signify anything new or a recurring trend?

Everytime m gets afraid, he retreats into the territiory of all-out devotion to the master, for safety.
(Remember, you can't understand any of this devotional stuff with that pesky old rational mind...when are you going to let go of that thing anyway?)

I think that perhaps he has taken a cold,calculated look at the whole mess....
He knows that all of his bullshit is cronicled here at EPO,for the whole world to see, forever....his credibility is shot...
Even if an aspirant doesn't come here, EV knows that the possibility is always there, and eventually all the premies and aspirants will know of the site...

I think he figures that there is no way to deny any of this stuff, ...he can only take the strategy of not answering...

I think he knows that very few people outside of India will ever get into this....
It's time to collect the true believers, the lifers, and give them that 'good ole time religion' down under...
Pump 'em up, and let it rip....no one else with any sense will come along for the ride, so bring in the few remaining faithful and get as much out of them as you can, while you can...

Make up a few 'knowledge packets' and secret trainings and seminars...let them run around for awhile and do a litle service to give them something to do...
The others who are too busy for that, can feel less guilty because they are not participating by donating as much money as they can...(remember Yorum Weiss said'we used to have lots of time, but no money.So we gave our time. Now we have no time, but lots of money, so now we give our money')

also, it seems that amaroo will be the magical hidden place where it can 'all hang out'....
you'll be able to see m there, and only there, in his full glory, complete with toe kissing, arti and bad breath..
this will become a mecca for the true believers, and will be a special event for the chosen few...
he will rake in lots of bucks from this, and premies will gladly splurge every year or two for the privelege of seeing m in this unique environment...

lots of laughs, lots of drinks, lots of money rolling in...
make it an exclusive club..it feels better for the true believers

a few westerners will trickle in...plenty of money in the coffers from the big donors, a few businesses, and amaroo every year or two..

shred the old ev documents, deny the cult,marginalize your critics, but still drop a few 'krishna' hints now and then and dangle a few goodies before the premies...
batten down the hatches, fatten up the bank accounts..
try a little propagation, see what happens..
cry when you have to, anything to avoid a law suit...

we've seen this pattern before, now with a few new wrinkles...

Yes, a cold, calculated business decision...

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 03:26:19 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Amaroo stories are coming in...
Message:
...this one is from a local premie who stayed in the outback in a tent. She said it was like going camping for a week with satsang around the fire each evening. She did not complain about the cost, when asked, she said that the money is for a good cause. When asked what the cause was, she said 'propagation' and the delivery of the message to the world. OK, I got the message: you spent 4-5000 dollars to go camping for a week and to listen to people around the fire talk about their experiences with M and breathing.

She splurged one evening ($150) and went to dinner at Daya's place. She said M was there hob-knobbing with the premies a la Dean Martin-(an Indian Leon Phelps [the Ladies Man] cruisin' for babes) with Courvosier in hand from table to table (with premie groupies constantly shadowing him like little girls at backstage at a concert). She said there was a lot of uneasy quiet moments during certain discussions, as if people were cautious in what they were saying about something that should not be discussed, she did not go into detail when asked. Her table was a mix of California and East Coast Premies. The east coasters felt out of sorts, she said, since they were not dining every night on the 1500 dollar special (which included a bottle of champagne) with the big buck donors, they were sort of 'from the wrong side of the tracks'. This may have been one big DRIP for her.

She tried to talk to Wadi (?) whom she says she knew from early days of SERVICE, but Wadi was busy making out with some 'Adonis-type' hunk of a man at her table. Her new 'beau', a premie who begged her to go out with him many times before she relented, was the talk of the night amongst the ladies.

When buying herself a drink at the bar, later in the evening, the bartender told her the drink was on the guy at the bar. Apparently, one of M's sons bought her the drink and then in true Ladies Man 2 fashion, asked her 'Do you know who I am?'. Ah, yes grasshopper, like father like son, you're learning well. She said he hit on her and she toyed with him a bit but felt uncomfortable with it. He was much too young for her. Then again, she is 50 and not a bad lookin' 50, so I will give the kid credit for trying, but he's got to learn some new lines. She said she was flattered.

At one point in the evening the entire restaurant, M included, sang happy birthday to a Premie at one of the tables. During the song M turned and said something to one of the premies stepping on his heels and everybody laughed loudly. She later asked a the birthday premie what was so funny. The birthday premie said that M had told the guy to 'kindly remove his nasal appendage from his anal sphincter' which caused the eruption of laughter and became the joke of the week. Oh Maharaji, always the comedian.

I think the bliss is wearing off of her and the DRIP is settling in. I will see if I can get more from her as time goes on, she seems willing to discuss some things but is cautious around me because she knows I have been to this site and have asked questions.

She said that she was relaxing in her tent and missed Darshan, because it was 'a spur of the moment thing that M decided to do at the last minute'. She said that she was really bummed out to miss that since that was one of the reasons she went. And here I thought she was an avid outdoor camping person.

A friend of hers, a premie, backed out from going to Amaroo at the last minute, due to his boss quitting his job, or some such nonsense, was telling me how glad he was that he did not go and spend so much money now that he found out Maharaji is coming to Miami and Worcester, Mass. Plus he did not have to hassle with taking turns pushing the wheel-chair-bound-premie around, as everyone else confided was a pain in the ass. He figures he'll go to Miami with the money he was going to spend in Aus. and get a nice hotel and hang out with the 'high rolling premies' as he calls them. I told him maybe he could put a few large in an envelope and give it to M if he does Darshan in Miami. 'Oh no, he does not do that anymore' he told me.

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Date: Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 00:13:28 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: cant believe M would go to Worcester
Message:
Was just there this fall along with numerous stops in western Mass. Worcester is not a place I would think M would lower himself to go to wonder why? It's a large city for Mass. but kinda small and industrial.
That part about M's son hitting on her bummed me out. I have sons M's sons age and somehow had hoped since i hadn't heard anything about them that they were not into the whole scene.
weird. The hitting on her in and of itself is one thing, odd but it happens. (If my students hit on me I tell them I am flattered but I have kids their age. that chills things out real quick usually.) But the abuse of power is very scary in someone in their mid 20s. I mean, What is to follow ? This really is disturbing to me. Not that I need any more drips to not be into M but that was certainly one.
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Date: Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 18:05:56 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: cant believe M would go to Worcester..me too..
Message:
Hi Selene,

Worcester, MA is an armpit when one considers cities in Mass. EV would never spring for Tanglewood or someplace visible and prestigious like that. (For those unfamilar with Tanglewood, it's an idyllic (sp?) place where they have the Boston Pops, many famous classic musicians performing in the summer, educational programs for music students presented by top classical musicians like YoYo Ma, Winton Marcalis--a very famous place in the Berkshires for summer concerts in NE--green lawns, a beautiful place).

I thought exactly the same thing about Worcester, Selene. (I also know a premie who has connections in that area, but I won't mention his name). They're probably going to have the program at a college or something. Worcester--YUCKY!

As far as Hansi hitting on an older woman, he's just repeating what he's been taught. Sad, isn't it?

Hope you're well,
Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 22:33:24 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Worcester..me too..yuck
Message:
Isn't Worcester the home of Abbie Hoffman who's famous quote in LOTU regarding M was:
If he is God he is the God that America deserves
:)
Mu aunt and dozens of cousins live there. Spent many a day there, very heavy memories. Worcester is the city M deserves.
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Date: Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 23:10:24 (GMT)
From: Selene and ps Worcester
Email: None
To: ps
Subject: but then again but he went to Oxnard :)
Message:
Oxnard is to the Malibu & Thousand Oaks, hell even Santa Monica what Worcester is to all other MA cities, even Springfield!
haha is he trying to save money lately on hall rental?
I feel sorry for the premies who don't knwo that city it's quite rough.
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Date: Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 03:44:56 (GMT)
From: Mrs. Robinson
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: M's Son Hits on Older Woman at Amarood
Message:
Like father like son, grasshopper
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Date: Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 22:43:29 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Mrs. Robinson
Subject: that cycle can be broken
Message:
Anyone who knows my ex and also knows my sons will agree. :) But then one has to wonder what type of role modeling and parenting M did for those boys.

Can you imagine?
It's a shame.

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Date: Fri, May 11, 2001 at 13:49:17 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: that cycle can be broken...good point, but
Message:
I agree that cycles can be broken, but with their unique?? lifestyle, contact with mragi, the whole cult scene, Hansi seems to be taking full advantage of his inherited status as son of god almighty!

At least he's hitting on older women instead of children and teens (I hope, I hope, I hope).

I liked Gary's post below: 'Do you know who I am?' (smile)

It says it all.

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Fri, May 11, 2001 at 06:07:05 (GMT)
From: Gary
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Like Father Like Son
Message:
Koan

Maha: Do you know who I am? (smile)
Son-of-Maha: Do you know who I am? (smile)

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 17:30:36 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Even in your darkest hangover,I will not abandon u
Message:
from Sarupanand's ashram... ...to 'Cheers'!

Now selling:

The Knowledge-lite 4-pack: less filling, tastes rate! Just 200 US dollars. Available only at reputed dealers.

New Motto: 'Even in your darkest hangover, I will not abandon you.'

Cheers! Where everybody is your friend... Uh, like dude, I'm trying to chat with this nice blonde -- so, would you kindly remove your nasal appendage from your anal sphincter.

Hey, yo, foxy older babe! Do you know who I am?!

Yep, It's a gas, gas, gas! Swish, guzzle -- Everybody loves somebody sometime...

Loud Premie: 'Hey, Everybody, this Stuff is like Nectar, for Chrissakes! Wow, like I am doing the 4th technique!'
Bartender: 'Premie ji, don't you think you've had enough to drink?'
Premie: 'Whassup -- tea many martoonis? C'mon, man, whas yer pwoblem? Gimme a break -- uf course I'm way cool.'

To my big bosses: Mike, Gabe, Raph, is it ok then if I go get a pint of ale at the local pub?

Peace and lentils,

PS Dear miragey, reminds me of what Nixon said to Ted Kennedy: 'How 'bout you drink and I'll drive this time!' (Pearls of wisdom... But, like, don't cast them before _wine!)

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 14:24:27 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: These stories deserve a permanent spot here
Message:
Life around Prempal Rawat is weirder than I imagined.
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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 07:48:56 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: That sounds like one WIERD scene
Message:
Does it really cost that much to eat at Daya's place?
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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 07:42:21 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Thanks for those stories, Jondon. Great! NT
Message:
j
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 21:04:41 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: A cold calculated business decision .
Message:
I agree , but who's taken the decision ?

Rawat is a man whose entire life has been spent getting other people to satisfy his every whim , because he was brought up to believe he was God in human form & so that's his due .

I can't believe he's capable of making such a decision , but the people running his business for him , whoever they may be , certainly are .

I'm not suggesting that he is some sort of dupe , it's quite plain that he calls the shots .

Then he leaves his minions to fill in the details , washes his hands & gets on with the serious business of being perfect master at play in his creation .

Speaking of backers , there hasn't been any mention on here for months of Mr. R.Jacobs of the prestigious lawfirm Millbank Tweedie etc , nor any explanation from some who might be in a position to know , as to exactly what Rawat's legal relationship with the organisation that invites him as their guest speaker might be .

John Tucker posted a link here on 27/4 , being a transcript of information on UK companies .

Elan Vital (UK) was registered as a company in 1988 .

The previous name of this company was : W .B .STORES
LIMITED .

Somebody is taking the fucking piss big time here & it ain't Rawat , he's not smart enough .

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 17:29:41 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: I agree, la-ex
Message:
Although I don't think it's probably as 'planned' as you imply. But I agree that he has abandoned the idea of letting go of the devotional aspect, because that is the most lucrative for him in the West. He can hold onto a few thousand premies who are die-hard devotees, and that keeps the cash coming in, which is really all he cares about, as long as there are enough of that group with lots of money to donate.

And I think the other thing that's clear is that Maharaji has taken cues from other gurus and is focusing on the rich. Amaroo is the sacred ground on which all the unspeakable devotional rituals can take place. Darshan, arti, dancing, outright Maharaji-worship. Since it's in the middle of nowhere, and you have to have an approved smartcard to get in, it minimizes the likelihood of bad publicity. And since it's in such a remote place, you have to be pretty well off to even get there. So, that selects for the rich, and it makes the small group who goes there feel special. If you don't have the do re mi to get to Amaroo and pay the outrageous fees, then you can just forget it.

So, he focuses on this small group, puts out a bogus propagation plan which avoids any public venues, and keeps a base in India. That appears to be the plan. It's essentially a plan for conserving what he's got, ensuring his continuing affluent lifestyle, avoiding as much publicity as possible.

Now, EPO is a real problem for him, and perhaps he feels he has to work harder to whip up the devotional fervor to counteract it among his core premies. This appears to be the case, since it appears he has written off getting very many new converts and there isn't much he can do about that, because he can't hook them on 'devotion' or they would bolt for the hills before they ever got involved.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 16:06:25 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: arti+bad breath at amarro-what's up?
Message:
Being on the outside it makes me wonder what the next year will show, given my impressions:
- I still think m. is trying to stage a comeback this year.
- The ex premie site is probably quite effective in straightening out misconceptions and delusions caused by EV and hahaji.
-haha is erratic and usually does not follow through consistently.

It makes me also glad that I'm not on the inside...

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 15:29:35 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Good Post. Read this premies!
Message:
He wants to be a master no matter what and he is not interested in the pain or confussion he creates in his devotees minds, in fact, we know what he REALLY thinks about the mind: He doesn't care because himself, so ignorant, doesn't understand what the implication are. Anybody practicing such a weird shit is missing the opportunity to live life like a real human being, not like some kind of robot, giving their lives to an empty, deceiving cause.

Thanks for your post. It clarifies further that there are many possibilities why he/EV do what they do. Just a bussiness tactic and premies need to understand it and set themselves free. Run from the clown!

maharaji is an asswhhhhhole

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 12:31:49 (GMT)
From: F arti
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: You've said it perfectly in a nut shell.Spot om.nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 06:15:30 (GMT)
From: Gary Epton
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Truth or Consequence
Message:
You should be working in the mayor's office - cuz your backroom thinking is bang on - good stuff!!
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 01:41:47 (GMT)
From: Chuck Sprague
Email: bctanda@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: PICS: LB1997: M dancing, Divine Mall floorplan...
Message:
In the pockets of some of my luggage, I found a brochure from the 1997 event, with a floorplan for the Divine Mall, and some ''Daily News'' pages, one page newsletters for each day of the event, that summed up what was said the night before. One of these included a very small picture of M. dancing, so I blew it up. It's a poor quality photo, nothing to get excited about, but I thought some of ya'll might be curious.

M. ''Dancing'' and the Divne Mall floor plan.

Notice all the uplifted hands in the audience. I remember all these women weeping with joy, their mascara running like Tammy Faye Baker when she sings for Jesus. When he started to ''dance'', just waveing his arms around and taking a few steps, it was like some kind of bizaar revivalist meeting, with rock and roll music. I don't like revivalist meetings, and I don't like rock and roll. I thought perhaps it was just a hippy nostalgia thing.

I had thought the devotional days were over, but I guess they never were, they just went underground for a while. I felt like I was in church again. In other words, Indian religion, BORING.

And Richard was right about those Knowledge Chocolates, see the chocolates counter on the map? It was so extensive, all the junk, I just couldn't bring myself to look at all if it, it made me cringe. I thought the ''Every Breath'' watches looked chintzy. Looking at the Maharaji Photo gallery did us in. Really expensive Photos, in two large galleries.

It was at this event that we really started to talk about it being a cult, at least for some premies, but not ourselves, of course. When Erika first posted here on FV that she thought some premies were in a cult, but SHE was not, I had to laugh (at myself, more than her) because I knew that argument all too well. If you buy his videos, attend his events, and send him money, you are supporting his personality cult, at the very least. That makes you ''in'' it, even if only on the fringes, wether you think you are or not. He is not The Master without his supporters.

Anyway, sorry I don't have more dramatic pictures to show you. It's just that the comments from others who were there have made me think about it a lot. I'm just glad we weren't the only ones who started to have large ''Drips'' at that event too. I'm sure many people did.

I had thought that up until then that Knowledge was evolving in the west, for the west. But that event really made me see how much a religion and a cult it still was, and how embarrassing it would be to introduce new people to it. Knowlege wasn't evolving, Elan Vital was just evolving it's facade to serve The Master. And the World of Knowledge was becoming increasingly expensive to belong to. We had been price-gouged for our motel. Everything was overpiced, even the one page daily newspaper was a dollar. And where was all this money going anyway, did I REALLY know? And surely M. knew about all this, it was all about HIM, how could he not know?

Somewhere in my mind, I was begining to wonder if I had evolved past the point of needing to be involved with something I felt too embarrased to talk to people about. I even found myself wondering what the non-premie convention center staff thought of all this, and about US? Did we seem like cultists? How was Knowledge ever going to be spread like this? What was really going on? Drip, drip...

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 21:44:07 (GMT)
From: Suzanne
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: Groooossss
Message:
Chuck,

You have helped bring back terrible memories. The '97 Amaroo program made me sick to my stomach. The blantant commercialization. The superficiality of the premies. The inane, stupid things, Maharaji said, and the dancing and the darshan. It was like this weird dream world in which nothing was what it seemed, because it you looked at it objectively it was all crap.

So, most premies just stayed in the dream state and they told themselves and everyone else how great it all was and how lucky we all were. I didn't feel great. I didn't feel lucky. I felt awful and I wanted to go home and see my friends and family. I didn't want to be a part of something so stupid, but I was scared to death to let go of it either. It was hell. I went from being bored out of my mind, to feeling revulsion for the entire program. Back and forth. What a horrible memory.

Well, at least I only had to do it once.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 21:57:09 (GMT)
From: WMary
Email: None
To: Suzanne
Subject: Sounds like the scene from Jesus Christ Super...
Message:
Star when the merchants were all selling their wares, Christ T-Shirts, statues, the Blinking Jesus, Velvet Jesus and on and on....and Jesus goes nuts and trashes the place and says this is not what I am about. He saw the big picture. Maharaji sees the little picture, little pictures of George Washington, Abe Lincoln, Andrew Jackson......all piling up to one huge sum of cash for his next toy or maintenance of existing toys. The Premies seem to blind to see, it is very blatant, he takes them all for suckers. Was'nt it him who said 'There's a sucker born every minute'?
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:35:28 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: It's not easy to be rich.Once u have a million (nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 15:53:15 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: PICS: LB1997: M dancing, Divine Mall floorplan...
Message:
Are you from New Jersey?
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 14:24:39 (GMT)
From: Magnolia
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: When my boyfriend went to LB97 with another woman
Message:
Chuck-

I had fallen in love with mister right that summer, and everything was going great except that he was poor and borrowed money to fly to LB97 with another female premie and to stay in a nice hotel in order to see his guru. It was all pure with the woman, but the money and effort made me realize that he was serious about the devotion stuff.

Fortunately, not long after that I found my inner bitch and raised hell.

He had wanted to see m again but had contented himself with videos and occasional premie contacts. Hopefully, I have channeled enough Forum V info to him that LB97 might have been his last event.

Magnolia

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:40:14 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Magnolia
Subject: Let's hope your ''Inner Bitch'' is tougher than
Message:
his ''Inner Child'' you know the one that goes goo goo to the gooroo. Lotsa luck, Blossom.
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 05:15:50 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: You all have reminded me of my last drip program
Message:
Although my last drip came earlier, around 1992 (i think) in Oakland, it was that same feeling you all talk about. No longer caught up in it. Disgusted by the little secret cult, bursting out of its seams. Wanting him to SHUT the heck UP! Turned off by the weeping and soft sobbing. The deer in the headlights look. The 'real premies' knew something was wrong with me. I had quit practicing K in the mid 80's and was helping to run a Tibetan Buddhist meditation group at the time, and all I had with me were our business cards to hand out for address/phone/e-mail info for me and my husband.

Some of them recoiled when they saw the cards and realized what I was doing. I'd left the fold. Gone to the other side, as they'd feared. I think the biggest fear was that I was OK but I was not practicing K. Does not compute. How can that be?? No rotting vegetables, sniff, sniff. Don't wanna think about it. No one of them contacted me, and they were all old friends. I e-mailed one of them and never heard back from him. Hmm.

But I've got you babes.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 05:14:37 (GMT)
From: Gary Epton
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: Thanks for reminding me to take the garbage out,
Message:
Chuck. Yeah, so true. I remember being sufficiently caught up in the Bhakti-do-do (as Pat almost put it) that I would kind of rationalize the **tacky-tasteless-trinklets** and price-gouging commercialization as being for a good cause afterall. But even in my slathering state I knew in my hara that it was wrong, and the Goo-roo was larfing all the way from the Gulfstream to the yacht, and eventually pickled and prostrate before his golden throne.
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 04:09:04 (GMT)
From: LB 97 refugee
Email: None
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: like a revivalist and yet not..
Message:
LB was my last straw as well! I remember the weeping had to sit next to the ultimate devotee.

But what was even MORE insidious was how it was kept in line, subdued just enough to be PC and fit the image. A really disturbing thing for me was how they played the instrumental for Arti and all around and about me I could hear people whispering the words. Whispering, key word here.

Very eerie like 'we know a secret' but 'we know how to hide it from the OTHERS'
yuck cult cult cult cult
M hides it all in suits and PR then lets the devotees go a bit crazy on his B'day. Just a little like the old days but let's remember our place now. how generous of him and how icky of the premies but this ex is glad it went down that way.

Selene

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 20:53:47 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: LB 97 refugee
Subject: nice image, Selene, whispering of Arti, etc. (nt)
Message:
adsf
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 02:41:03 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Chuck Sprague
Subject: Long Beach 97 did it for me. Good to the last drop
Message:
My sentiments exactly, Chuck.

I remember that in 'my heart of hearts' that I no longer felt like an awe struck premie caught in the headlights of Maharaji's Mercedes. And I noticed, too, that the real premies noticed this in me when I passed by them as they manned their posts in the parking lots and other various sensitive locations that they were all making such a super effort to make everything so, so perfect for Him - oh, yuck!

The Trinket Hall was about my last drip. The watches, the expensive photos, and all that other crap.

Maharaji only took it to the next logical step - fleece 'em and then fleece some more.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 23:19:07 (GMT)
From: Elan Vital
Email: None
To: Sunday Comics
Subject: Items from our catalogue
Message:
Dear Whoever you are:

Visions International is a subsidiary of the 100% non-cult, Elan Vital. As you would know if you weren't, as we speak, being swept out to sea in the river of bondage to maya, the purpose of Elan Vital is to help support the spread of Maharaji's teachings to the lost, confused and miserable, people of this world who are seeking to fulfill themselves through the pursuit of material possessions.

Now, Maharaji isn't doing that, because Maharaji has moved beyond attachment to material possessions, hence his $7 million yacht does not get in the way of his mission, and he is experiencing happiness despite the burden of living an obviously successful lifestyle, for which he should be praised, not criticized. For example, it would have been a lot easier for him if he wasn't burdened with a delapidated house in Malibu, let us assure you.

But Maharaji realizes that people still are into material things, and we sell some items through our Visions subsidiary that help in that regard. Even though Visions employs at least two of Maharaji's children, and even though Maharaji has designed many of the supremely perfect and exciting designs utilized in the Vision's products, Maharaji has nothing to do with the management of either Visions or Elan Vital. We just do whatever we want and he has no input whatsoever. We just set up events and then send him an invitation, hoping that he will show up. Yes sir, we are just completely separate from Maharaji and Maharaji has nothing to do with Elan Vital. How could you possibly think otherwise?

The Visions products are reflections of the one-pointed effort of Maharaji to his mission. For example, watches that remind people to breathe are all part of the plan for helping the lost people of the world experience true peace. Chrystal, pens and gold-trimmed tea cups are also essential parts of that mission, as are greeting cards, kites, and new-age elevator music. All purchases from Visions are made freely, and being that we are not a cult, we do not force anyone to buy things they don't want to buy. A cult might do something like that, but we don't, and that's another item in the long list of reasons why we are not a cult. Elan Vital has never held a gun to anyone's head and forced them to buy a watch. We have a policy against doing that sort of thing which is very clear.

Anyone is free to NOT purchase anything the don't want to, even though failure to purchase an 'every breath' watch for $525, might result in death due to lack of oxygen, or perhaps sitting in the 177th row at the next event, although purchase of the $90 watch, might get you to the 50th row. Visions and Elan Vital keep careful records of purchases and use that information when assigning seats at events to which Maharaji is invited, which is another example of synchronization.

Elan Vital is also distressed that you anonymous, negative people would make fun of people who have spoon collections. Spoon collecting is a noble and acceptable hobby, and Elan Vital believes strongly that people with spoon collections should not be discriminated against. We have a policy against this.

Accordingly, in furtherance of Elan Vital's policy of NOT discriminating against those who collect spoons, Visions offers our wonderful spoons, with carving designed by Maharaji, for only $49.99 each, spending nearly 94 cents each for the manufacture, in a very prestigious area of Sheffield, by unemployed steel workers for one pound per hour. To do anything less would be discriminatory against spoon collecting PWKs, who are already dealing with unwarranted discrimination and we at Elan Vital have a policy against this.

Sincerely and in syncrhonized participation:

Elan Vital

MARKETING GOOD TASTE SINCE 1971

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 01:07:16 (GMT)
From: Gordon Showcase
Email: None
To: Elan Vital
Subject: These people just don't get it
Message:
Dear Elan Vital,

As I said elswhere, these people don't understand capitalism. they're obviously Commies and have never done an honest day's work in their lives. I was pleased to be able to give Visions International that container load of damaged etched glasses and the handkerchiefs and ties which were hand made in Africa by starving children. I thought the price I was given by Visions was a good one and better than just dumping them in the local canal.

Well I thought I would never get rid of the wretched things but Visions have shown me never to give up and I now know that I can always find a buyer for any kind of crap that comes my way. And as you know, the 'Charles & Diana' coffee mugs were easily painted over with that cheap paint I got from Taiwan and nobody could see what was underneath once the glaze had hardened. By the way, my artist said that he can also do feet on the next lot if you want, since he's been practising painting his girlfriend's feet and has got it just about right now.

By the way, my contact who was providing those watches was finally nicked by the police and I denied ever knowing him, of course. But I think I have another one working in Woolworths who can get me some more watches out of a similar design. Did any of them melt in the sun, by the way? Of course, that acrylic silver effect paint doesn't last forever, you know.

Gordon.

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Date: Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 19:36:34 (GMT)
From: Lurker #27
Email: None
To: Gordon Showcase
Subject: Righto Gord! These ex-premie commie bastards . . .
Message:
just don't get it. They just don't understand, that a dollar is a dollar! Jeeze, I've had it with this site, this cesspool of hatred and ingratitude!

You know what I'm going to do! You know what I'm going to do!!!! I'm going to have a few shots of cognac, put on my Every Breath watch (the cheap one) and my Celebrate-life jacket, then I'm off to see the mistress.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 15:47:39 (GMT)
From: Prem-Lotto-Corp
Email: None
To: Gordon Showcase
Subject: Hee-haw! (nt)
Message:
jackpot!
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 07:10:01 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Gordon Showcase
Subject: uhh-gord? woolworths went out of business
Message:
you're s-o-l
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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:31:43 (GMT)
From: Gordon Showcase
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Uh???
Message:
Woolworths are very much in business here, me dear. And what on earth does 's-o-l' mean? Why do people have to write in abbreviations? Don't they realise that other people don't know what they mean?

But then this is the land of the semi literate. Thank God Maharaji doesn't read this place - he'd be appalled! You only have to read his poetry to see that he's got a great mastery of the English language.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 21:39:33 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Amaroo's neurosis
Message:
According to premies just coming back from downunder, m gave 'darshan' and 'holy breath'. Same thing in Taiwan.

The premies haven't recovered yet, and might need some professional help soon ...... Poor guys.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 16:41:48 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: God is jolting
Message:
Have you asked them what they think of darshan having maharaji said at Elan Vital's site that he is not God?

Just curious. Would you ask them if you haven't? Thanks.

Love,

S.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 17:11:26 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Maybe Lucifer gives darshan too? (nt)
Message:
oooooooooooooerr
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:03:09 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Lucifer: HIS EYES are very WEIRD!
Message:
I sat with my (non-anything) boyfriend few days a go to watch a couple of maharaji's videos as theraphy for my anger toward Lard and I saw something very ugly in his eyes. I am not saying literally he is Lucifer because i don't believe in that but his eyes are weird man!!! What was i thinking loving this guy??!!!

For many months I couldn't put myself to watch a video because of the painful emotions i felt after watching one a while back. Lots of resentment. For many months I didn't see him and now I see his eyes in such a different way. I can't say what it's exactly but was an ugly spooky feeling. He has this very weird look and the iris seems to be so dark and small, and there is nothing loving in those eyes either.

Aughhhhh All this must be a nightmare and one of these days I may wake up...LOL What a trip when you really see the whole picture. he grew from a cute 14 years-old guru to this strange being. What a bad karma! boomerang effect for scaring us with karma? hahahaha He ended up being an asshole.

Somebody told me that when John Lennon told his guru he was leaving him the guru asked John where was he going, what was he going to do and taht John responded: 'If you are God you know the answer, so the fact that you are asking proves taht you are not God.' and left laughing, free.

What a horrible person this guru is. The more I think about it, the more it sickens my stomach. And those eyes....hmmm...... No kidding, is something evil in them.

I saw and enjoy a while back your pictures though.:) Fun to see your face.

chau,

SB

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 02:38:13 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Holy Breath! Holy Cow! I got it twice and didn't
Message:
FEEL it. I thought he had missed my ear the first time in Copenhagen in 74 so I asked for it again in Essen in 75. And it still went over my head. ;)

But I always got a real jolt of guru juju juice from the feet. It suited my crumpled masochistic catholic martyr burnt out acidhead Hindu-hippie syndrome very well.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 04:05:16 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: I also got it twice and didn't feel a thing.
Message:
Same thing, I thought he missed. Weird, eh? How could God incarnate miss? Uh, maybe because he's not God incarnate but just a fraud.
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 12:50:10 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: G
Subject: I also got it twice and didn't feel a thing.
Message:
G, Pat:

Well, this explains a great deal doesn't it? I mean, there are *consequences* to getting HB twice, donchaknow? It's not a smorgasbord. No wonder you've lapsed. Sheesh. I got it *three* times, so lapsed long before you did. It all makes sense now. You can get the jitters from drinking imaginary coffee, but you only get one helping of imaginary donuts so don't waste it. This is all by way of learning discipline, for heaven sake.

--Scott

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 18:49:50 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Three times! No wonder your so enlightened!
Message:
Thanks for the chuckle, Scott.
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:44:21 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: I only got one shot of holy breath...
Message:
and never felt a thing. I also thought he missed me. But I never had the nerve to try again. My juju thinking.....
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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:58:27 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: That old black magic's got me in its spell
Message:
Yep, the old bhakti juju fears and superstitions. Chuck cannot completely comprehend how enthralled I was. We were very young when Rev Moon Beam first arrived and very impressionable and more gullible than the current 20-somethings. Like you, I get so angry about it sometimes.

Chuck is puzzled until I remind him that us old-timers thought that he was greater than Jesus, God, Buddha and the Beatles all put together and that we trusted him with our hearts and souls and now he has thrown that love back in our faces by saying that he never said he was God because it is less controversial and suits his market research better.

So we were caught up because we were naive and innocent and ignorant but that does not make Rev Moon Beam any less of a liar, conman, user and opportunist.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 11:14:31 (GMT)
From: Mr. Mind
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Divine Lungers
Message:
Mahatma Liemyassof Ji said the ultimate would be to catch one in our ear. There would be no denying that.
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 07:58:37 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: G
Subject: We were specifically told not to try for it again.
Message:
You bad boy. Did you also feel guilty doing it twice?
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 12:56:03 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Oh yes, I felt so guilty, I was such a naughty boy
Message:
What would Rawat's/EV's excuse be for this 'Holy Breath' practice. Of course, the implication is that he's actually giving a person 'Holy Breath', that he has some magic hocus-pocus juju power that he can transmit by blowing in a person's ear from several feet away. But they would say, 'Oh, he never claimed that, it's just an act symbolizing a PWK (aka pwikie, premie, devotee, student, dust under the Lotus Feet) asking 'Maharaji' to 'accept' them as a PWK? and 'Maharaji' showing his 'acceptance' of them by blowing in their ear.' That still sounds mighty weird, doesn't it? I mean, when I take a course, there is no ritual involved at the start of the course. Why a ritual? Really it's just a dominance/submission type of practice, similar to a dog exposing its neck to the alpha male dog.
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 18:55:07 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: G
Subject: It would be too rude to expose our bums to urug
Message:
like baboons do to the alpha male in pretend sexual submission but I guess foot-kissing and ear-blowing rituals are not too far removed from that.

The second time I asked for it I thought, ''He'll recognize me and chew me out.'' But of course he didn't know me from Adam and was probably pickled anyway. Sure looked like he was bored usually.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 23:21:38 (GMT)
From: A Former Aspirant
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Do they talk about darshan at intro events?
Message:
Why not? If they don't, isn't that flagrant misrepresentation? Do they talk about holy breath and what about Arti at intro events? Why is this not mentioned? Wouldn't it be fair to let people know what they are getting into, which is guru-worship?
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 18:44:41 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: A Former Aspirant
Subject: No, Because It is A Cult!!! n/t
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 16:54:59 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: A Former Aspirant
Subject: Aspirant are not ready for that
Message:
He should but it would put him out of bussiness!

By the time an aspirant finds out about darshan through the 'higher' stage of preparation to receive knowledge videos that person is suppossed to watch, he/she thinks with a cult mentality and accepts him as a superior being. These are the deceptive ways of masters of his caliber; gets you in the 'bag' little by little. Well, I think today that nobody needs a master.

But he punds that you need one. It would be very fair for him to explaing that he simply plays, acts a role and that there is not validity on his title of satguru/master, and that is all a trip, but he knows that if in an introductory program he dumps all at once nobody would want to follow up. He transform you sweetly in a cult memebr and you don't even notice how he does it. Is called despersonalization.

MAHARAJI IS A FAKE MASTER!>

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 12:54:56 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: A Former Aspirant
Subject: Do they talk about darshan at intro events?
Message:
AFA:

Why not? If they don't, isn't that flagrant misrepresentation?

Like, that's supposed to be *bad* or something?

--Scott

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 04:25:52 (GMT)
From: Mercedes
Email: None
To: A Former Aspirant
Subject: Do they talk about darshan at intro events?
Message:
NO, they don't talk about any of that. As a matter of fact that is carefully avoided. The cult is in denial around being a cult so those things like kissing feet, holy breath and arti are NOT mentioned, then you go to Amaroo and get sucked in or totally freaked out.
It is a farce, I guess I am still angry about the whole thing.

Mercedes

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 23:12:58 (GMT)
From: Dopey Gopi
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Holy Halitosis Fatman! (nt)
Message:
ooo
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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 21:09:43 (GMT)
From: SloeBurn
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Sloe Progress
Message:
This is kind of in line with a topic currently being discussed on the board. As you know I am trying to help my wife see the true nature of M. But as I also stated, I am trying to be very careful about it because she seems delicate where that subject is involved. I don't want to hurt her or hurt our marriage. In any case, something came up on the news and the conversation turned around to how some of these TV evangelists take all the money from people who send it in for the church and use it for themselves. I easily drew her out and she was talking about how any money over what would constitute a fair salary should be turned into charity funds for folks who really need it. I let her go on and then I said ‘Yup, pretty disgusting when people take money in the name of God.’ She said, ‘Right, like God needs money!’ Then she just stopped and got that blank look. Kinda worried me. I just turned back toward the TV like nothing happened. But I think this is a good sign? I thought it was great because the M name never was mentioned at all. Obviously something triggered on its own.
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:41:32 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: SloeBurn
Subject: Sloe Progress, Yes, take it slow...
Message:
Look, my husband was in the same place you are right now. He never pushed me, nor did he try anything to get me out of the cult. What he did was show a lot of patience, gave me more love than I've ever received from that guru creep, and eventually trusted I would learn to see things clearly and exit.

Ironically, we had just this discussion last night. He told me that he knew I was hooked on m in a way he couldn't interfere with. He never bad-mouthed m, but he never ''good-mouthed'' him either. My husband just gave me love and space to work it out on my own.

I don't believe in giving advice to people, especially when a marriage is involved. Only the two of you know how much strength there is to get through this. Only you know how much patience you have. Only you know her as a husband knows his wife, etc. If my husband had given me ultimatums, I'm not sure what would have happened.

When he watched a few videos with me at one point a couple of years ago, he did tell me they didn't make sense to him and it wasn't for him and that what m was saying wasn't any differenct from many other new-age guru trips. If you express an urgency to your wife that she ''quit it now,'' it could backfire. Just go gently, it takes a long time to get brainwashed, and is a process of healing after realization sets in.

For my relationship, love, trust and patience was the answer. And now I am an ex and proud of it and very happy.

Be well,
Cynthia

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 17:25:26 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: SloeBurn
Subject: Sloe Progress best, logic can't enter 'that place'
Message:
My wife and I exited informally in 1986 or so, moved away from Miami to a small town in the Pacific Northwest. Eventually we missed a 'community with purpose' and fell back into the occassional M event and video. Went to Long Beach and enjoyed old friends and got caught up in the nostalgic-personality cult again. Sort of like finding old love letters and wistfully reminescing, totally ignoring why you are no longer with that person.

The Divine Mall, bad poetry videos, thinly veiled devotional trip and mostly the Rantaholic Speaker made me vow to never go back. Fortunately there were no more LB events. My wife did go to Portland recently, got the buzz, enjoyed the DVD knowlege review and so now is very tender about M&K. The last thing I want to do is stomp on her 'heart' or her 'experience' as she connects that to M&K right now. And that's only because it is the strongest connection she's had lately to 'spirit', no matter how perverted.

My approach is to love her and try to see her as she is - a loving, caring person who wants a beautiful experience. I connect with her in any way I can and enjoy the things we have in common that bring us joy and love. Recently, we shared deep sadness, then grief, then deep love for one another when an 18 year old very special cat died. That experience was so profound that it bound us together in a beautiful way. By the way, once we grieved deeply, there is now so much more love to feel individually and together. Hopefully, our common experience will be a strong example of how love reside with her / me and not inside a satellite dish. M's 'don't worry be happy' approach denies the humaness of grief and therefore robs one of the ability to truly love.

Your partner's connection to M&K is most likely an emotional one and no amount of logic will crack that. There are deep psychological reasons for holding onto the security blanket of M&K that will not be pried loose by logic. But once the questions come, or the moment of doubt, or the need for a caring thought or sweet touch - you must there to give what M never will.

Peace - RR

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Date: Sat, May 12, 2001 at 14:41:22 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Richard/Sloe burn/Cynthia
Subject: I appreciate this topic; a bit of a rant
Message:
I admire all three of you for advocating the gentler approach. Of course you are right. I find myself being so militantly against M these days that it would be hard for me not to be confrontative and combative with someone I loved very much.

But you are right. My dad and mom used the gentle approach on me when I was a premie. Dad kept me engaged in my former interests by mailing me articles and books he knew would interet me. He didn't nag or confront me about the guru, just listened and nodded and advised me to go out and crunch autumn leaves under my feet. What a guy. My mom tried to understand it but admitted she couldn't understand it or me anymore but that she admired my spiritual search. Once she broke down and yelled at me and said, 'It looks so hard' (meaning the knowledge path). I guess I looked pretty miserable. I can really understand what she was saying now! I was like a monk in a hair shirt.

Then there were the friends who confronted me and I must say they helped me too.

I wish I could be more patient with my last remaining premie friends. But I just can't stand it that they go all gooey over M. And I can't believe one of them won't even look at this site, I can't believe someone would be so blind as to want to look the other way and not read all the facts.

We made a pact not to talk about M anymore. But she still brings up M every chance she gets to give me satsang and I am goign to tell her not to do that anymore, and that if she does I will counter it with anti-satsang. What bothers me is that she feels that M supercedes everything else and that she can give me satsang even when we have agreed not to talk about M. I feel that that is very proselytizing behavior. She feels she is doing me a favor by slipping in the 'good news' about M, just in case I might pranam to him once again due to my great need and longing. It's very arrogant. I can't stand this, but I know she has been programmed this way--to believe that M is the be-all and end-all of human existence. I can't stand this attitude in anyone of any religious persuasion: 'I have the truth, the only truth, and you are defective because you don't have it, but if you would believe it, you too can have this precious truth that I have.' M's cult claims not to be a religion but it has turned out a lot of fundamentalists who hide behind it because they cannot stand having a doubt or a messy life for 10 seconds. I can't stand that.

Guess this has opened up a can of worms.

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Date: Sat, May 12, 2001 at 16:36:33 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: I appreciate this topic; a bit of a rant/my take..
Message:
Hey Helen-

I know what you mean when you talk about your premie friend who still wants to 'satsang' you.
I think your response of saying that it the friend
'satsangs' you, you will 'anti-satsang' her. Good strategy.

Here's my take on your friends position and behaviour, which seems to mirror a relationship I have with a still practicing premie friend who I was very close with.(and still am, although a bit strained because of this stuff).

My friend does not have the guts to look at m and what he has done.
She is in a huge state of denial, and on some basic level knows that, but is not ready to admit that.
She simply cannot, and therefore will not,look, think or feel anything about m that shakes the religious belief system.
She is not ready to leave the nest, and therefore will not allow anything in to rock the boat.

When your friend sees you have left the nest (dungeon might be a better analogy, although the friend sees it as the nest) and are all the better for it, they get very defensive and scared.

Your friendhip with them makes the anti-m talk real, and they are simply unable to deal with it.
When they 'satsang' you, they are realy 'satsanging' themself, to keep themself in the ballgame (dungeon) with m.

Anyway, that's my take.

Best solution?
Enjoy your life to the max, express your feelings to the friend in a kind way, and let nature take it's course.

I think m senses this uncertainty, and that's why he's upping the amperage with the big 'D' (darshan).

Any of this make sense to you?

La-ex

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Date: Sat, May 12, 2001 at 15:24:30 (GMT)
From: Richard
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: I appreciate this topic; a bit of a rant
Message:
Helen, an idea. Let's call it an open discussion. Your friend can tell you about M if she will listen attentively while you (calmly) lay out 3 or 4 key points as to why you no longer follow M. Or alternatively, you'll watch a video with her if she will read select pieces you download from FV and have a civil discussion afterwards. This probably wouldn't work now that I verbailize it but worth thinking about.

Really, the main thing is to be happy ourselves without thinking we have to change someone else. That is tough - to take the high ground. Unless they are being obnoxious and then a bitch slap works wonders (kidding).

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Date: Sat, May 12, 2001 at 16:32:24 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Richard
Subject: I appreciate this topic; a bit of a rant
Message:
HA HA. I like the first suggestion very much and I think it could work. But to sit quietly during a video is not physically possible for me.

On second thought, the idea of listening patiently while she rhapsodizes abotu M may not be physically possible. Perhaps I will ask her to inject me with some valium first.

You see, I am hopeless. but your suggestions are excellent and I will try to be more reasonable and less 'attached' to the outcome of my chats with these friends.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 02:48:06 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: SloeBurn
Subject: Sloe Progress - I think you're onto something
Message:
I liked that anecdote and suddenly thought that, if you can keep your mouth shut until she starts to ask questions, then gently tell her about the Hindu background and how it isn't any big deal. There's hundreds of gurus giving the same knowledge and AMERICANS DON'T NEED GURUS. WE'RE TOO INDEPENDENT AND CAN DO IT ON OUR OWN THANKS or with a little help from our friends. But doing it slow, Sloe Burn, seems to be the way to go since you're trying to keep her trust and love.
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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 22:05:38 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: SloeBurn
Subject: Something has to give...
Message:
Hi Sloeburn,

In many ways you are probably not the best person to help your wife out of this, yet it is obvious to any ex-premie why you both want to help her and and in so doing probably save your marriage. Also, if you don't do it, who will?

By 'not the best person' I just meant she would probably be more receptive to a good friend imparting the home truths. Maybe she too fears the consequences of your pushing the issue too hard (?) But anyway, it is clear something needs to happen.

'Tough love' might be the best approach. Imagine this wasn't your wife but a close friend whose cult involvement was obviously doing them no good. How would you deal with that? Direct no-beating-about-the-bush questions, maybe? Hard evidence of M's gross character defects?

So suppose you and your trouble'n'strife shared a few glasses of wine, got comfortable and established a non-threatening sort of atmosphere then you calmly but firmly listed your own grievances concerning her cult involvement, and especially, how it was affecting you. This is as much about your life as hers, surely...

Let's face it, this isn't going to go away. Perhaps you should confront it head on. A one-off High Noon would certainly clear the air and let you know where YOU stand in relation to your wife and her 'Master'.

I would just add that in my own experience of premies with non-premie partners (my own included) something, ultimately, ALWAYS has to give. Either both halves become premies, both become exes or the partnership ends. I've seen this happen a good few times and have to say that the premie/non-premie union can exist only in a state of unstable equilibrium. Too much uncertainty, lack of trust and way too much left unsaid.

Hope you sort this out soon, Sloeburn, not least for your OWN sake. I am sure there are plenty of exes here with similar past experiences who wouldn't mind offering support or advice via email.

Take care,
Nigel

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 21:49:59 (GMT)
From: Magnolia
Email: None
To: SloeBurn
Subject: A woman who loves men who love gurus too much
Message:
hello sloeburn-

i read the forum regularly as the significant other of a long-term premie. i must say that the susan/abi/jagdeo posts made an impression on my partner. however, i've backed off, because he's had that quiet empty way about him that is beginning to worry me. i don't want a person to lose their spark or suffer clinical depression just because i hammer the nasty truth into him.

he hasn't mentioned m to me in a couple of weeks now... could it be that i'll miss having my eccentric guy-with-a-guru? still, those damned photos are everywhere - it's not over yet.

i'd take m over sai baba nonetheless. right now i'm selling tons of nag champa at my store, and after reading the sai baba scandals i'm about to scream! now i have to look at afro-head pedophile guru at work, then see maharaji the blonde-loving televangelist guru at his house!

anyway, i sympathize with your plight, and hope for the best for all of us.

magnolia

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 02:53:07 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Magnolia
Subject: Love your posts, Magnolia. What's Nag Champa?
Message:
And you definitely don't need advice on how to grow with your guy. I know you give him good yabyum. It's beats foot-kissing anyday. Best wishes.
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 13:59:32 (GMT)
From: Magnolia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: Life is just yabyummy!
Message:
hi pat-

nag champa incense is the bestselling single item i have in my store full of what my friends call 'hippie shit'. it's a wonderful scent, which is refreshing after years of selling cheap sticks of dipped punk with scents like 'sweet p-ssy' and 'sex on the beach' to indifferent college students. unfortunately, the wrapped boxes have full-color photos of mister sai baba printed on them, and the unwrapped boxes still have his name printed directly above the words 'nag champa'.

now, after all my complaining about m's photo, i am challenged to do something about this pedophile's image in my store. i don't want to be teased about my hypocrisy!

anyway, thanks for the compliment. i know that i don't have a lot of original input for you folks, being an outsider, but i like to occasionally throw in my two cents.

Magnolia

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:00:26 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Magnolia
Subject: You DO have a lot of original stuff to tell us
Message:
I just love your seen-it-all wise-ass cracks and obviously big heart. Do you also sell ''Be Here Now?''
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:48:34 (GMT)
From: Magnolia
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: i don't sell 'be here now' but i try to live it
Message:
Pat-

at the risk of revealing my boyfriend's identity by giving information about myself, my store is located in what rolling stone magazine called 'the freakiest city in america'. every flavor of the new age is here, i think. we pass the eckankar place on the way to our favorite restaurant... and the margot anand folks are on the next block, near the yogananda gallery. the tongue-speaking storefront church is next door to us. ram dass is well-represented at the bookstore across the street. we buy our snacks from the rastafarians. now we have a zen yoga shop three doors down, as of last week.

m has strong competition here, and i have only heard of one child of a premie that has received knowledge in these parts. and she is named after m's daughter!

god, i love being an agnostic... i just smile and nod and go my way.

magnolia

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 02:31:27 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com
To: Magnolia
Subject: I knew you were a wise woman when I read your
Message:
first post here. Parts of San Francisco used to be like your town before the dotcom invasion. Like you I'm an agnostic and not much given to New Age spirituality for myself but enjoy most of my New Age counter-culture customers a lot more than Mr and Mrs Norman Normal.

Yes, Rev Moon Beam Rawat has a lot of competition and I always found it impossible to tell San Franciscans about Knowledge because most of them already knew what I was talking about and had their own ways of getting high with and without drugs.

PS I'm also a bit reluctant to talk about my business here bcause it's so public and well known. I left my email in case you ever feel like saying hi.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 16:08:14 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Magnolia
Subject: The brand we have here doesn't have
Message:
... sai baba on the cover or anywhere. But heck knows where they get it. In fact, I've never seen Sai Baba nag champa. Best of luck finding an alternate source -- I'm sure they're out there. I'm in northern california.

--f

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 05:18:16 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: PatC
Subject: incense, dude!
Message:
Once you smell it, you will never forget it. Now I can't stand the stuff.
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 07:17:16 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: The sandalwood is, like, satya agarbatti!
Message:
Mfrs. Shrininvas Sugandhalaya
Bangalore 23

Export quality

Net Wt. 40 Gms.

'Warning. Insist for this label to avoid immitation
buy from reputed dealers only'

Yeah, like, dig it -- buy from reputed dealers only!

'Ah, like I see you have an herb store and new-age headshop, dude. Cool! Iron Bungerflea Bong-shop -- yaya, that name totally rules, man! Uhhhh, you got some good herb, rastah mon? Ok, I'll have 16 oz of your top-grade Jamocha Polka Tolkien. By the way, you also got some of that Nag Champa and a few small screens, too?'

Now, about that sly baba... oy vey! Maybe he is actual demon soulmate of Jagdeo?! I foresee another gnarly karmic job here (for Shiva the Destroyer's Steely Dan II).

Have to stop now -- am getting really INCENSED!!! sly baba -- 'reputed dealer' of what?!!

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 11:53:02 (GMT)
From: Bob
Email: None
To: such
Subject: new project for med research?
Message:
Not that I really care, but it suddenly crossed my mind that the smoke of incence might very well cause lungcancer.

(but perhaps we should not tell to save the life of a few thousand labrats)

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:22:27 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: how 'bout Let's: BOYCOTT NAG CHAMPA products!!!
Message:
Nag Champa partially subsidizes sly baba's trip. So, let's help spare our fellow earthlings and creatures the ill effects of sly baba's environmental, predatory, and spiritual pollutions!

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 20:44:56 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Japanese incense is better.
Message:
Less smoke and soft fragances. have you girls tried it?
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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 21:57:52 (GMT)
From: Magnolia
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Oh Yes, Morning Star Sandalwood!
Message:
SB-

oh yes, personally, i just love morning star sandalwood from japan - punkless, and very clean.

but, as a shopkeeper, i have to tell you that nag champa sells 10 to 1 over all the others combined!

Magnolia

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 05:29:00 (GMT)
From: sb
Email: None
To: Magnolia
Subject: Sandalwood, one of my favorites
Message:
but now I came across other good brands too. I should check the net. I really like them.

Got bored of champra...

You must have fun at your work place ..... : )

sb

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:59:40 (GMT)
From: Magnolia
Email: None
To: such
Subject: where have all the good gurus gone?
Message:
suchabanana-

i try to be an ethical person, and the sai baba revelations have really hurt. i just figured that he had a run-of-the-mill indian meditation operation and sold the incense without thinking any more about it. when i ordered my last 1200 boxes from a new supplier, i asked whether the company was run by the sai baba organization. she told me no, that the original owner was a sai baba devotee. she said that the new owner was his son, and that he was diversifying the product lines. i just checked the 'super hit' incense box, and there's no english wording regarding the guru.

however, i will be contacting this woman, whose husband is a native of bangalore, and will question her further about where the money goes. it just seems hard to believe that he will retain many devotees after the corruption revelations, but it sounds like all of you guys know better than anybody that scandals can take forever to bring an indian down.

i'll keep you posted-

magnolia

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 21:27:22 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: Magnolia
Subject: Gone to graveyards,every one.Oh, when will we ever
Message:
learn...?

Where have all the good gurus gone?
Gone to graveyards,every one. Oh, when will we ever learn
Oh, when will we ever learn...

Just went and inspected some Nag Champa incense at a local natural food store and at an Indian store.

2 types of container boxes found, but both said:

Mfrs. Shrininvas Sugandhalaya
Bangalore 23
Bangalore 560-023

Export quality
Net Wt. 40 Gms.
and a larger box, too

'Warning. Insist for this label to avoid immitation
buy from reputed dealers only'

The Indian store had sly baba's photo on the incense boxes. Owner is typical of tens of thousands of sly baba devotees [believes in his divinity and miraculous materializations but does not meditate, etc.], says portion of money from firm's revenues is dedicated to sly org. Store also sells sly baba books, photos, necklaces with medallions, etc. Got visibly upset when I mentioned the Indian article that stated sly is faker - not fakir. Bought some curry spices and the famous ladus and left.

The natural food store's blue boxes with red-on-white label also read: 'SATYA SAI BABA' in 3 different places. They also carry the Hairy Christmas incense, too.

Once had an old feisty mare -- sometimes that nag chompa, too.

Peace and lentils,

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 16:09:59 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Bob
Subject: I'm witcha on them lab rats n/t
Message:
save the animals
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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 12:58:34 (GMT)
From: Moldy Warp
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: CatWeasel 's 'relationship' with 'Maharaji'
Message:
Catweasel - here's a little fairy tale for you... entitled:

CATWEASEL IS MAHARAJI

Once upon a time there was an aspirant called Moldy Warp who saw Prem Pal Singh Rawat on a throne strategically placed at the apex of a very large flower bed (at Wembley 1977).
Moldy Warp had just given up fags (agya), and stopped having sex with her premie boyfriend(agya again)... in fact Moldy Warp had given up almost everything 'worldly' (anger, desires attachment rob us of eternal life)
Anyway - I digress - back to the flower-bed - Moldy Warp 'experienced'(that ubiquitous word)that Prem pal S R was nothing less than Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, and all other minor deities combined and surpassed!.....

Ten years later there was a very confused Moldy Warp who couldn't get her head around the fact that the aforesaid incarnation of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva had left the building... to be replaced by a yuppy-clone clipboard-wielding flower-free shoe-wearing 'I am just a teacher' bloke.

A further ten years passed during which Moldy Warp began to 'think' again and, in the course of such a heathen activity, made many interesting discoveries... some of which she is now passing on to poor sad Catweasel who is still lost in the flower-bed....

1 Moldy Warp's mind is what Moldy Warp is
2 'Maharaji' (ie Moldy Warp's aforesaid mentioned experience of) was nothing more nor less than a bit of Moldy Warp's mind (most probably the most sad lonely-longing bit)
3 The bloke in the flower bed was (and is) a complete stranger to me

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 02:56:37 (GMT)
From: PatC
Email: None
To: Moldy Warp
Subject: What a mouthful, Moldy! Scrumptious! NT
Message:
l
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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 15:36:25 (GMT)
From: donner
Email: None
To: Moldy Warp
Subject: CatWeasel 's 'relationship' with 'Maharaji'
Message:
nice story you are likely more then your mind but m probably wasn/t much more except part of our emotional body hopes and fears. smiling here. luv
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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 18:04:50 (GMT)
From: Moldy Warp's Secretary
Email: None
To: donner
Subject: taking dicatation FAO Mr Donner Dear Mr Donner,
Message:
Thank you for your prompt reply in response to my earlier communication of 7th inst full stop the following points have been brought to my attention colon new paragraph indent bracket 1 close brackets the term inverted comma mind inverted comma may have been misconstrued full stop new line indent bracket 2 close brackets for Moldy Warp comma her use of the expression inverted comma mind inverted comma includes a broader range of subjective phenomena than is found in the vernacular full stop these would include bulleted list new line indent bullet point feeling semicolon new line indent bullet point bodily sensation new line indent bullet point all forms of cognitive processing full stop new paragraph yours sincerely comma Nigel Longhurst bracket p full stop p full stop Ms full stop Moldy Warp new line executive director comma crap theories of the mind forward slash body forward slash and spirit company limited full stop yes that will do can you put the kettle on hold all my calls christ these tights are killing me who's nicked my eye liner
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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 14:09:50 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Moldy Warp
Subject: Bloke on a flower bed... LOL Hee hee (NT)xxxx
Message:
You write beautifly Molds....you have lovely soul.

Loafie

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