Disculta -:- What happened at Amaroo? -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 02:07:18 (GMT)

__ bill -:- Bazza reported on the Miami event after amaroo -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 02:35:42 (GMT)

__ __ bill -:- Jondon reported this about amaroo -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 02:42:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ bill -:- LAex reported this about amaroo -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 02:46:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ bill -:- la-ex also told this story of the cult. -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 02:55:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ bill -:- SB reported this about a previous amaroo -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:01:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ sb -:- I didn't write that, I just re-posted it -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:12:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ duh -:- TD provided the newspaper article about amaroo -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:04:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Chance to get a hard copy of this article ? -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 15:41:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ duh2 -:- Jim reported in also. -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:07:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ duh3 -:- CD offered another view:) -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:10:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ done -:- Jim provided rawats amaroo words -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:12:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- the carefully chosen words of the inebriate -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 17:25:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- ev's newsletter from amaroo -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:19:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ amaroo bullshit -:- la-ex....arti and toe kissing in amaroo -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:35:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- You really had to be there! -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 05:35:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Cat, I'm so happy for you all. -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 09:26:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Catweasel -:- Cat, I'm so happy for you all. -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 14:58:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- I'm jealous Cat, but here's a challenge for you. -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 17:43:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sam Hardy -:- You really had to be there! -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 06:49:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ CW -:- You really had to be there! -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:02:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Lesley -:- You're right, David, you aren't home -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 20:07:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- ... but no-one's in (NT) -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 11:39:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Disculta -:- Thanks everyone and... -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 16:24:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- Yeah well maybe you missed this gem from bazza -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 23:15:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Bill,isn't this why he does it that way? -:- Sat, May 19, 2001 at 15:56:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- Hi la-ex, -:- Sun, May 20, 2001 at 03:03:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Worcester headlines... -:- Sun, May 20, 2001 at 06:33:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- I agree, only newspapers target to widely....nt -:- Sun, May 20, 2001 at 15:28:02 (GMT)

AJW -:- It's not about money is it. -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 23:50:05 (GMT)

__ sb -:- PAMs go around cities telling poor premies -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 15:11:50 (GMT)

__ __ la-ex -:- a simple solution to this 'money thing'.... -:- Sat, May 19, 2001 at 16:35:52 (GMT)

__ Mr Williams -:- It's not about money is it. -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:01:17 (GMT)

__ __ AJW -:- Yes Mr Williams, I'm choking on my own feculence. -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 09:08:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ Francesca -:- Good response to the compassionate Mr. W -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 16:23:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ Richard -:- Mr Williams, why are you here? -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 16:04:54 (GMT)

__ __ CW -:- It's not about money is it. -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:35:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ JohnT -:- CW = A trapped dreamer who lies in his dreaming... -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 11:45:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ PatC -:- I see CW aka Victoria got her Bitterness back -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:50:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ AJW -:- Ooops, sorry Cat., -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:42:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ CW -:- Mr Williams said that Mr Sadsack -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 15:05:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Yup, right again Cat. -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 17:29:42 (GMT)

__ __ PatC -:- Mr Williams aka Cerise aka .....? Oh, Catweasel.. -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:34:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ CW -:- Mr Williams aka Cerise aka .....? Oh, Catweasel.. -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 15:12:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ PatC -:- How can you call me paranoid when I am starting -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 18:12:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ JohnT -:- I am that I am -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 16:15:39 (GMT)

__ sb -:- Nothing has changed but -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 01:14:32 (GMT)

__ __ AJW -:- It's Millenium 2 -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 09:13:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ SB -:- unbelievable! -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 12:54:46 (GMT)

__ PatC -:- Aren't you up awfully late, Pumpkin? -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 00:01:52 (GMT)

__ __ AJW -:- The drugs wore off Pat. (ot) -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 00:25:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ Moldy Warp -:- Hey Anth - which wilds you talking about??? -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 00:32:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Oil let you know drekly. -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 00:34:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Moldy Warp -:- Oil let you know drekly - or isn't that milk??? -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 00:42:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Oil let you know drekly - or isn't that milk??? -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 01:03:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Moldy Warp -:- Sandhoppers nasty but not as bad as -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 09:23:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- I wanna come see the wilds of britain-waaah! -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 07:01:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Welcome to Radioactive Britain. -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 09:17:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- Radioactive Britain--would that be the Beeb? -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 10:13:45 (GMT)

__ __ Moldy warp -:- Pumpkin? IsAJW about to turn into a Stagecoach ?nt -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 00:14:13 (GMT)

From bellow -:- More sick premies. -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 21:58:15 (GMT)

__ janet -:- i think you should share that with her honestly. -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 07:52:24 (GMT)

__ __ SB -:- SUZANNE: Read janet's post for you above. -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 13:23:11 (GMT)

__ Moldy Warp -:- Yes indeed Maharaji sucks!!!nt -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 00:20:45 (GMT)

EBay Alert -:- GURU PUJA Songbook 1974 Photos KRISHNA BUDDAH -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 11:58:05 (GMT)

__ Selene -:- those songs !! Like Kindergarten -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 16:15:09 (GMT)

__ __ Cynthia -:- To: Selene -:- Sun, May 20, 2001 at 04:25:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ Selene -:- Cynthia thanks -:- Sun, May 20, 2001 at 19:17:24 (GMT)

__ __ beel -:- Larkins updated arti lyrics -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:44:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ creativejani -:- Larkins updated arti lyrics - brilliant! -:- Sat, May 19, 2001 at 03:28:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ Richard -:- 'anger suppressed is depression' -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 16:17:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ janet -:- HAIL HAIL! BRAVO! Long overdue! our anthem! -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:06:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ PatC -:- Larkins arti lyrics - Guru's boat is a holey one -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 07:52:15 (GMT)

Selene -:- my unofficial journey and ??? -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 03:21:26 (GMT)

__ sb -:- what about answering the phone? -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 13:27:45 (GMT)

__ __ Selene -:- sorry sb!! I'll try to call today -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 15:51:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ sb -:- no problem -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 16:56:17 (GMT)

__ Bin Liner -:- Je ne regrette rien... you know -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 01:13:48 (GMT)

__ __ janet -:- revenge is a dish best SERVED cold' is the line. -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:09:47 (GMT)

__ Sonata -:- Perhaps Try a 'Wailing Wall' -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 16:29:39 (GMT)

__ Bob -:- my unofficial journey and ??? -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 16:05:57 (GMT)

__ SB -:- Dear Selene, the hate will subside. -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 15:05:27 (GMT)

__ __ Helen -:- Dear Selene, the hate will subside. -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 00:40:17 (GMT)

__ __ PatC -:- You are on a roll, SB -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 17:19:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ sb -:- You are on a roll, SB -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 18:03:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ PatC -:- serene and happy - I know you are -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 18:11:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ sb -:- So true!! -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 18:50:07 (GMT)

__ Katie -:- Selene - mother's day and all -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 13:35:57 (GMT)

__ Salam -:- Selene me dear. -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 13:12:33 (GMT)

__ __ sb -:- Selene me dear. -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 18:52:23 (GMT)

__ __ salam -:- and -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 13:43:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ sb -:- and -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 22:23:02 (GMT)

__ Prof Heinz Baked-Beans -:- New scientific paper -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 11:48:22 (GMT)

__ Selene -:- ok thanks to......... -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 04:57:10 (GMT)

__ __ Francesca -:- Don't have your e-mail Selene -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 06:18:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ PatC -:- Don't have your e-mail Selene - neither do I -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 07:18:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Selene -:- e-mail and stuff -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 16:22:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Lesley -:- Thanks, Selene, for starting this thread -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 22:33:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- maternal -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 21:52:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- maternal -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 22:08:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Zelda -:- maternal+ -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 00:00:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ sb -:- same here -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 01:08:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- same here -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:50:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ sb -:- screw up people seek gurus -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 04:20:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bill -:- I guess it is a secret how many posts I read of yo -:- Sun, May 20, 2001 at 03:09:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ sb -:- I guess it is a secret how many posts I read of yo -:- Sun, May 20, 2001 at 05:31:32 (GMT)

Mr. Mind -:- TM Instructors + Rawatian Instructors=the same ??? -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 22:29:04 (GMT)

__ janet -:- wow thanks. i did TM for a year before K-this fits -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 09:54:20 (GMT)

__ Stonor -:- A very relevant section and thanks ... -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 03:51:55 (GMT)

__ __ sb -:- Hi Stonor. NT -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:13:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ Stonor -:- Hi SB! -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 13:51:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ sb -:- good, but natural -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 19:14:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Natural is good! -:- Sat, May 19, 2001 at 01:44:17 (GMT)

__ __ such -:- 24hr7d susceptibility 2 cult-trance indoctrination -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 23:29:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ Stonor -:- Hi Suchabanana! -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 23:57:50 (GMT)

__ __ Mr. Mind -:- A very relevant section and thanks ... -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 09:26:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ Bob -:- thanks ... -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 11:54:36 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- One more article today in French newspaper/EV -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 20:41:03 (GMT)

__ janet -:- translation -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 22:08:10 (GMT)

__ __ Way -:- to Janet -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 14:42:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ janet -:- translated for others and reply 2 u -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 09:35:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Way -:- Accent marks? -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 14:26:15 (GMT)

__ __ Francesca -:- excellente Janet! -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 22:58:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- That's exactly the point! Big scandal here! -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 08:33:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Oy yoy! Thank goodness for other cultures ... -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 14:47:35 (GMT)

__ __ janet -:- well now you do! here ya go! -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 22:11:09 (GMT)

__ Francesca -:- Don't know what it says ... -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 21:41:51 (GMT)

__ __ Sam Hardy -:- Truth as a defense -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 06:19:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Precisely the case for France -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 16:59:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ Francesca -:- Public interest -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 16:35:38 (GMT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Don't assume they're not THAT stupid! -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 03:47:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ Francesca -:- Don't assume they're not THAT stupid! -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 05:43:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Way -:- Pit bulls in France -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 14:28:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- We also have something about liberty in France -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 15:57:59 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- I agree with that completely -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 16:39:31 (GMT)

sb -:- Was there darshan in Miami or not? -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 13:48:35 (GMT)

__ janet -:- no tunnel or foot kissing-2nd voice -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 20:13:41 (GMT)

__ __ SB -:- no tunnel or foot kissing-2nd voice -:- Sun, May 20, 2001 at 05:37:52 (GMT)

__ __ Bob -:- Inspiring! nt -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 16:13:23 (GMT)

__ __ SB -:- YES. YES!!!! -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 16:10:05 (GMT)

__ __ kev -:- phone calls with premies -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 22:37:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ SB -:- funny -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 17:58:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Suzanne -:- Similar Experience -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 18:49:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Why if K works there are so many sick premies? -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 21:55:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Bob -:- Why if K works there are so many sick premies? -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 01:05:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ sb -:- haahhahahaha -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:11:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Mahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahahahaharaji -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:47:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ sb -:- Mahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahahahaharaji -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 13:06:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- The Truman Show was brilliant -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 18:30:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Check your mail. NT -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 19:25:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Check your mail. I will. NT -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 19:28:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ poet -:- The Truman Show was brilliant -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 19:07:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Thanks for your poem -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 19:21:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ thanks -:- poem -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 19:27:18 (GMT)

__ Bazza -:- Not -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 14:01:25 (GMT)

__ __ cq -:- I thought darshan was a Hindu concept? -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 17:58:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ Lurker #27 -:- Darshan a Hindu concept? Tell that to Santa! -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 21:03:22 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ creativejani -:- Darshan ... mmmmm -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 22:10:17 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Darshan ... mmmmm -:- Sat, May 19, 2001 at 00:47:19 (GMT)

Rumours -:- Maharaji is writing his biography-with help -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 08:38:24 (GMT)

__ Advisor -:- Don't buy it. Less money for rat NT -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 04:12:19 (GMT)

__ Gary Epton -:- Mein Kamph -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 01:56:56 (GMT)

__ SB -:- Now he really want humanity -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 22:19:57 (GMT)

__ Joe -:- M's biorgraphy has ALREADY been published. -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 21:32:49 (GMT)

__ __ Lurker #27 -:- M's biography has ALREADY been published - here! -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 13:39:37 (GMT)

__ TD -:- Maharaji said he would NEVER WRITE A BOOK! -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 22:35:52 (GMT)

__ Joe -:- Prediction -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 16:36:30 (GMT)

__ __ donner -:- Prediction -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 17:22:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ cq -:- The bet's on - how much do you think he'll charge? -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 17:53:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ janet -:- think he'll charge 29 for softa, 50 for hardcover -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 20:24:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- God in a Bod Writing Biography???!!! -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 21:49:16 (GMT)

__ SB -:- Maybe he wants my testimonial -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 13:49:42 (GMT)

__ __ Helen -:- Maybe he wants my testimonial--mine too! -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 20:43:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ sb -:- Maybe he wants my testimonial--mine too! -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:18:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ Joy -:- What about the testimonials of the blondes? -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 00:52:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Helen -:- What about the testimonials of the blondes? -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 00:27:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Bob -:- What about the testimonials of the blondes? -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 12:16:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Joy -:- What about the testimonials of the blondes? -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 15:46:30 (GMT)

__ Is that the -:- Jonathan Cainer who worked for the Daily Mail -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 09:03:10 (GMT)

__ janet -:- tht would be 'autobiography' if he writes it. -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 09:02:08 (GMT)

__ __ Nige -:- File under 'Fiction' or 'Fantasy' ... -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 12:04:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jethro -:- I wonder whowould buy such a book NT -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 12:13:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ PatC -:- I wonder who would buy such a book - exes would -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 07:39:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ sb -:- the many family and friends and many ex-p -:- Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:29:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Ok but I suggest that we only -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 08:09:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- damn right, Jethro - I won't buy one NT -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 17:06:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Well -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 16:08:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ janet -:- lets get started on the unuathorized version. -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 20:27:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- So how many premies has he got? NT -:- Wed, May 16, 2001 at 19:36:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- There are a lot of Indians. -:- Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 13:30:20 (GMT)

Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 02:07:18 (GMT) From: Disculta Email: None To: Everyone Subject: What happened at Amaroo? Message:

Did I miss it or what? I remember a lot of pre-Amaroo funny speculation, and there's Anth's post below saying they lost money. But wasn't anyone there who reported back? Did I miss some first-hand reports or funny pictures while I was away? I need to know this for my mental health! I have only been out of the cult for 17 years and this is essential information because tonight's NBA playoff game sucks.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 02:35:42 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Disculta Subject: Bazza reported on the Miami event after amaroo Message:

Here is his report 'Seems like when you get into your mid to late forties, most guys (cant speak for the ladies) start to yearn for the power and excitement of their youth. With most of us it manifests as an unhealthy (!) interest in women half our age, with maharaji it (also) seems to be the desire to return to God-status. Well that was one of my strongest impressions from the miami program, from reports of the reinstatement of darshan at amaroo and from the unusual step of having a few premies get up to the mike and give warm-up satsang in miami (mostly to do with 'Participation' and 'Resources') One local premie, bless his heart, got a bit carried away and went on about 'doing service', then realised his faux pas and tried to correct it, but it came out as 'participating in service'!. Before the EV monitors get all in a flap, I didn't 'sneak into' the event, I was there quite legitimately working as a Union member as is required by the Convention Center contract. So I was doing 'service' and getting paid(howdya like them apples?). A well-meaning premie friend got me a seat pass (second row from front, no less) so while all my Union brothers were asked to spend the time the event was in session in the breakroom, on the clock, (coffee and pizza provided, courtesy EV) I sat my ass down and figured I'd see if the ole magic was still there. It was exactly a year to the day since I'd seen m. last up close. Ironically in the same room as they had the aspirant meeting this time round. He seemed to look much older somehow, and tired. I saw wrinkles and gray hair I hadn't noticed a year ago, perhaps because then I was still looking through the misty eyes of a devotee. Yesterday he just looked like a tired, middle-aged guy trying to pump new life into an old act. Think of all the once-big stars like Tony Bennet and Englebert Humperdink, reduced to doing one-horse cabaret clubs and life insurance commercials, and you get the picture. Sounded like he was determined to go out fighting though - much of the emphasis of the event was centered around him being 'the Master' and the knowledge being 'his Knowledge'. Come to think of it, that was THE only emphasis of the message this time round. They showed a clip from one of the Training meetings in which he came across really heavy, almost tyrannical, about how this was HIS knowledge and those present were damned fortunate to be ALLOWED to tell people about it. Yikes, I could sense a lot of uncomfortable shuffling going on around me. One of the most memorable lines for me was this: 'Don't ever question the purity of this knowledge, don't ever question the purity of this experience and DO NOT...EVER... question the purity of the Master' (emphasis real). As he said that last bit, I just pictured him after the event, lighting up a cig and sipping his brandy!:) But it was scary the way he is now trying to bully the remaining devotees, and newcomers, into blind obediance once more. All in all though, the event was pretty lacklustre. There were 3,250 people there, a much-reduced Visions sales area and really not much energy. I've been to many, many events in Miami and this one measured pretty low on the richter scale so far as the excitement and energy of the premies went. By the time Visions were packing up on the last day, I could see that most of the stock had gone unsold - usually you cant get near the sales tables for the crowds, not this time. People just weren't buying it - in more than one sense of the term! So what about behind the scenes? Well not much has changed there. Security is still ludicrous. It is at the same time intense and inept. I got in no problem - the security goons at the service entrance weren't really on the ball for sniffing out ex's. I just told them I was with the union and got a pass. They didn't even ask for my Union i.d. Funny thing was, all the premies were stuck waiting outside for an hour because the 'list' didnt turn up:) Smart Cards were required by everyone doing service. They had a card reader at the security table near the entrance and premies had to wave the card near it. It stored their details for download later. There was a little box attached which gave either a green light or a red light. I'm not kidding. I asked one of the goons what that was all about (they didnt know I was a premie too) and they said it responded to 'certain information' stored on the smart chip. Scary as fuck, I thought. There was a point friday night when I was left completely alone in the backstage area for about 20 minutes. Right there were the 2 SmartCard readers and data storage box, just sitting there,....Now if I'd been a really militant kinda ex, I could have plugged my laptop into the RS232 port and downloaded all the software and personal info on the premies doing service. Doesn't the law require that entities storing our personal data take 'reasonable care' to prevent its misuse? Anyway I was there in a professional capacity and I have no inclination toward dishonest behaviour so I left it alone. Like I said, they're inept. Set-up wise things haven't changed in 20 years - it still takes forever for them to get thier act together - I joked with one of the security goons about how amazing it was that (you guys) can cram 6 hours work into 15. He didnt get it. But that's what it was essentially. A show set which would take a normal production team 6 hours to put together took that lot 15. They kept changing their minds about stuff, things didn't arrive on time and get this - they gathered in a circle every 2 hours and had a meeting, to 'share' what progress was being made and why they were so far behind schedule. Well that's about all there was to it. I got some dirty looks from some premies that knew me, especially Productions guys, which pretty much tells me who is reading the forum! OK fellas, I'll spare you the embarrassment of being 'busted' disobeying maharaji's agya not to read here, since most of you were polite at least. But please, just take the opportunity while you're here to put your opinions aside and think for a moment....not everything in life is as it appears to be. We all have a path in life, mine just happens to have taken a different turn recently. That doesn't make me a bad person, just someone with a different agenda, capiche?. Can't think of anything else to write just now, anyone got any questions, anything I haven't covered, fire away.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 02:42:55 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: bill Subject: Jondon reported this about amaroo Message:

'...this one is from a local premie who stayed in the outback in a tent. She said it was like going camping for a week with satsang around the fire each evening. She did not complain about the cost, when asked, she said that the money is for a good cause. When asked what the cause was, she said 'propagation' and the delivery of the message to the world. OK, I got the message: you spent 4-5000 dollars to go camping for a week and to listen to people around the fire talk about their experiences with M and breathing. She splurged one evening ($150) and went to dinner at Daya's place. She said M was there hob-knobbing with the premies a la Dean Martin-(an Indian Leon Phelps [the Ladies Man] cruisin' for babes) with Courvosier in hand from table to table (with premie groupies constantly shadowing him like little girls at backstage at a concert). She said there was a lot of uneasy quiet moments during certain discussions, as if people were cautious in what they were saying about something that should not be discussed, she did not go into detail when asked. Her table was a mix of California and East Coast Premies. The east coasters felt out of sorts, she said, since they were not dining every night on the 1500 dollar special (which included a bottle of champagne) with the big buck donors, they were sort of 'from the wrong side of the tracks'. This may have been one big DRIP for her. She tried to talk to Wadi (?) whom she says she knew from early days of SERVICE, but Wadi was busy making out with some 'Adonis-type' hunk of a man at her table. Her new 'beau', a premie who begged her to go out with him many times before she relented, was the talk of the night amongst the ladies. When buying herself a drink at the bar, later in the evening, the bartender told her the drink was on the guy at the bar. Apparently, one of M's sons bought her the drink and then in true Ladies Man 2 fashion, asked her 'Do you know who I am?'. Ah, yes grasshopper, like father like son, you're learning well. She said he hit on her and she toyed with him a bit but felt uncomfortable with it. He was much too young for her. Then again, she is 50 and not a bad lookin' 50, so I will give the kid credit for trying, but he's got to learn some new lines. She said she was flattered. At one point in the evening the entire restaurant, M included, sang happy birthday to a Premie at one of the tables. During the song M turned and said something to one of the premies stepping on his heels and everybody laughed loudly. She later asked a the birthday premie what was so funny. The birthday premie said that M had told the guy to 'kindly remove his nasal appendage from his anal sphincter' which caused the eruption of laughter and became the joke of the week. Oh Maharaji, always the comedian. I think the bliss is wearing off of her and the DRIP is settling in. I will see if I can get more from her as time goes on, she seems willing to discuss some things but is cautious around me because she knows I have been to this site and have asked questions. She said that she was relaxing in her tent and missed Darshan, because it was 'a spur of the moment thing that M decided to do at the last minute'. She said that she was really bummed out to miss that since that was one of the reasons she went. And here I thought she was an avid outdoor camping person. A friend of hers, a premie, backed out from going to Amaroo at the last minute, due to his boss quitting his job, or some such nonsense, was telling me how glad he was that he did not go and spend so much money now that he found out Maharaji is coming to Miami and Worcester, Mass. Plus he did not have to hassle with taking turns pushing the wheel-chair-bound-premie around, as everyone else confided was a pain in the ass. He figures he'll go to Miami with the money he was going to spend in Aus. and get a nice hotel and hang out with the 'high rolling premies' as he calls them. I told him maybe he could put a few large in an envelope and give it to M if he does Darshan in Miami. 'Oh no, he does not do that anymore' he told me. Previous Message

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 02:46:25 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: bill Subject: LAex reported this about amaroo Message:

'A few details on the 'fine dining' experience at Amaroo. Dayas fine dining took in over a half million in sales for the recent kangaroo hop. The dinners were a minimum of $150, and since all the labor was free, the only expense was for the food itself. My source estimated that about $20-$25 was spent on each dinner, including a cheap botle of wine. He figured that out of the half million in sales, at least 80% was pure profit ($400,000). Some diners paid $1,000 or more to be at the fine dining experience, as m was at most of them. They were all sold out, and some people who wanted to get in, couldn't. Also, m said that he wanted the premies to grow up and respect each other, so he eliminated the ticketing procedure of reserved seating. As a result, there was a mad rush each day to get in close to the stage, and many people were treated very shabbily. They had to prevent a number of people from getting trampled by overzealous premies, particularly from south america and new york. Consequently, they are now back to the old system of assigned seating. M was upset.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 02:55:41 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: bill Subject: la-ex also told this story of the cult. Message:

Joe, here's an example of the impeccability requirement along with the 'copycat tendency' from a local intro program a few years ago. It shows how following the maha rather than your own common sense is silly and counterproductive, and just so plain stupid....it also shows how no one in their right mind would ever get into this at this point... When I was still involved, I volunteered to run the video projector at the local hall for an introductory program one Sunday night. The crowd would be mostly premies, with a few invited guests. One premie had even spent days designing an invitation that he actually had to clear with EV before it could be used. Ushers had gone hundreds of miles away to an ushers participation meeting for a full weekend to be properly trained and synchronised. There was a properly trained emcee, with canned remarks according to EV's direction.Part of those directions specifically stated that under no circumstances should humor, original remarks, or one's personality be involved with the intro remarks. There was a properly trained event manager, properly synchronised. There had been a required security meeting for all participating servants to be properly trained on how to operate the fire extinguisher in the hall.(not kidding) (The hall is about 12 feet wide by 30 feet long and seats about 25 people max.) Two ushers were trained and in place. A backup emcee was present, just in case. The divine sales table was properly manned by the sales person. Another person sat at the back of the room with an intro video of m, to be handed out to anyone who showed up by mistake and was not ready for the intro program(?). This person had been to a meeting with David Smith about how to approach new people who wandered in and were not deemed ready for the video-they were to be given a free video to go home and watch. Another premie stood outside the hall and kept an eye on the parking lot. Another premie sat in the back, ready to assist at any time for any reason.(kind of an all around utility man) Another premie handled the lights, ready to fade up and down, in synch with the video. Another premie sat beside the thermostat, in case it needed adjustments. Another premie stood by, ready to talk to new people at the end, if any came and had questions. And I stood ready to run the video machine. Let's see, I think that's about 12-13 people involved in service at this point. (The community has about 25 people max, about 15-18 regulars) (To those still reading this post, I am NOT kidding or exaggerating any of this. This happened about 3 years ago, and was done acccording to the EV book.) Problem was, that after this routine had been practiced and run a few times, this particular night there had been a torrential rainstorm just before the program. This were hurricane type gales of wind and rain, which lasted about 20 minutes and then quickly passed. Anyone on their way to the program would surely be caught up in it, and the resulting traffic jams. I was there very early to set up the video equipment, but quickly surmised that there would be a problem due to incoming late stragglers, because of the rain... However, only being a mid level community member at best, due to my somewhat maverick nature, and refusal to become a 'church lady', I was quickly over-ruled by the reigning 'Industrial strength church lady' (a man I will not name, but is more uptight and rigid than David Smith, if you can believe that..) I told the 'ISCL' that we needed to start the program at least 5-10 minutes late, due to the inclement weather. If we didn't, people would be streaming in late throughout the video, and being a tiny room,it would create havoc for the viewing of the video. But the 'ISCL' prevailed, citing m's insistence on using the atomic clock to start the programs...in fact, his watch had been set that night to the atomic clock, in synchronization with the anticipated intro program. So, the program starts at 7PM sharp, right on the money according to the atomic clock. Only problem is, the only people in the hall are me on the video projector, and he and his wife. What to do? We had to start on time, but the requisite quorum of 12 able bodied premies was not present. What is a Church Lady to do? (Now put youself in his shoes for a breath or two....you start on time, but are very short on personnel-not good with EV. Or you wait 10 minutes and get the required personnel, but you have violated m's practice of starting compulsively on time. Either way you're in deep doodoo of the mind, and not wanting any bad reports to filter down to EV personnel.) So, he starts on time, according to the atomic clock.(m's way, according to his point of view) I run the video, his wife emcees, he checks the thermostat and fire extinguisher while turning down the lights, then his wife takes the required intro video and waits in the back of the room, while occassionally peeking outside at the parking lot. The video starts,(only 3 of us at the outset) and premies stream in for the next 20 minutes, completely wrecking anyone's ability to watch it in any focused manner, as the door constantly opens and closes with light and outside noise streaming in. About 10 regular premies come, no visitors... But everyone did a little service...10 people all serving each other.... After the 'program', there was a 'debriefing' amongst all servants, to discuss the synchronised participation... I think that was the final straw/drip for me.... I resigned as video man shortly thereafter. A true story; actual names of servants deleted to protect them from lurking EV personnel and Glen Whittaker, who might seek to take disciplinary action against them. Previous Message Next Message Previous Thread Next Thread

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:01:16 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: bill Subject: SB reported this about a previous amaroo Message:

Subject: divine spoon collection+high priced hotels... Message: Thanks Chuck, my spoon collection was getting a bit thin, and I really didn't know when I would be able to pick up a pair of divine spoons...thanks again, I feel so complete now... about hotels...a friend of mine went to australia a few years ago and stayed off site at an EV sponsored hotel. EV had played up the fact that when he paid beforehand through EV, he would automatically save himself the distasteful task of having to 'check out' of the hotel at the end of the festival. This was billed as one of their many thoughtful favors to the premies. My friend forgot that he didn't have to check out, so he went to the front desk to check out and they said it had already been prepaid by EV. Because he wanted a receipt, he asked them for the current rate, and he found out that EV had tacked on another $20/night to his bill....quite a service.... I feel like vomiting. SB

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:12:58 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: bill Subject: I didn't write that, I just re-posted it Message:

ridiculous guru, my god!

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:04:49 (GMT) From: duh Email: None To: bill Subject: TD provided the newspaper article about amaroo Message:

Subject: Article in newspaper referring to Maharaji Message: Transport hoodoo guru's only problem Catriona Mathewson and Tony Keim 27apr01 - The Courier Mail SHE may be able to turn milk to jam but even Hindu 'hugging saint' Ammachi couldn't bring Qantas flight 522 into Brisbane on time yesterday. The woman known to millions of worshippers as 'mother' kept a crowd of followers waiting for 45 minutes after she fell victim to the vagaries of modern transport. When she did arrive Ammachi was swamped by followers, leaving dozens of bemused travellers in their wake. It is the Indian saint's ninth visit to Australia and, although she doesn't speak a word of English, she blesses followers with hugs and is said to have once turned a jug of milk into jam. Ammachi claims to have wrapped her arms around more than 15 million followers and added a few more to the list in Brisbane last night, before heading to the Gold Coast. But what is so special about a hug from Ammachi? 'You would have to ask them,' she said, through an interpreter. And why does she hug? 'That would be like asking the river why it flows.' More enlightening was a young follower who raved about the power of the hugs. 'You can feel her energy flowing to you,' he enthused. And it is an energy which he said could conquer the age-old western problem of 'thinking with our brains all the time – she helps people to start thinking with their hearts'. University of Queensland associate professor of religious studies Richard Hutch said the phenomenon was not hard to understand and could actually produce tangible benefits. 'Psychologically it's useful and everybody enjoys being hugged,' Dr Hatch said. 'It's the mother-child bond that a lot of people are in need of. 'Who knows what kind of psychological state is being created that might make someone feel happier and bolster the immune system. 'That's why the hugging saint is a very practical possibly beneficial thing to have in the community.' Ammachi will hold a free program from 6.30pm on Sunday at the Tallebudgera Recreational Centre, Gold Coast. Another Indian spiritual 'guru' has led more than 4000 people on a journey of 'knowledge' during a four-day convention, which ends today, on a property south of Ipswich. The Maharaji taught 'delegates' from 60 countries the four secrets of his non-religious way to enlightenment. Organisers of the Elan Vital conference housed delegates in a massive tent city set-up by local scouts and State Emergency Service volunteers on the Ivory's Rock convention centre grounds. Elan Vital national director Kaye McKinnon said the conference was expected to pump more than $2 million into the local Ipswich economy. For more than 30 years the 44-year-old Maharaji has been teaching followers, but has refused to give media interviews for the past 17 years.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 15:41:22 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: jmkahn@club-internet.fr To: duh Subject: Chance to get a hard copy of this article ? Message:

Does anybody have it ? Please email me !

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:07:26 (GMT) From: duh2 Email: None To: duh Subject: Jim reported in also. Message:

From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Analyze THIS! Message: This is simply amazing. It's as if they're shadow-boxing with us or something: A transforming process This afternoon, it was the Scandinavian 'saddhus' who stood at the top of the amphitheatre with their banner invitation inviting Maharaji to visit them. The informality of Amaroo has made these impromptu invitations an almost daily occurence, started by the Brazilians with a human chain of T-shirts bearing their message and then the Ecuadorians with another banner. The northern Europeans took their cue from Maharaji's recent description of their homeland custom of jumping from saunas into freezing cold waters - a pastime worthy of rishis and saddhus. Thus, Maharaji began by announcing that his European summer events would be confirmed 'any day now'; with, he hoped, a visit to Scandinavia included. The relaxed, leisurely pace of these 'events in the bush' has also given birth to new and healthy satirical entertainment. Hardly a single element of the culture that has grown up around Knowledge was spared, as the small troupe of actors playfully mocked EV bureaucracy, teamwork, and the 'premie archetypes.' The stumbling attempts by the beer-swilling Aussie to tell his mate in the pub that he had just received Knowledge was perhaps most poignant of all. Smartcards, you will be happy to know, are evolving into 'smartchips' which will be embedded in the forehead. Not only will they help people not to forget the techniques but they will ensure - with an electronic alarm built-in - that the required amount of practice is done each day. Maharaji himself often seemed to laugh louder and longer than anyone in the audience at the comedy acts. A mega-mega-event will be happening in Delhi this year, he told the audience which was now over 4500. Open to the public, 50,000 aspirants are expected. He then briefly reminisced about the early days in England and how looking at the achievements of today it was clear that even dreams were 'limiting'. But, he added: 'This is not a numbers game. It is about everyone who is interested. It is about those who have taken that challenge.' He conjured up the image of a painter trying to paint the face of someone who was face was lit up by the subtle, heartfelt smile which comes from experiencing Knowledge. 'Whatever effort you make towards Knowledge, it will not go in vain. It will never go in vain,' he said. Moving to a metaphor about how wild horses have their spirits broken so that they can be ridden, he surmised: 'Maybe one of the reasons the master is never understood properly by the world is that he takes this horse back to the wild and tries to mends the broken spirit .' If people should say that a wild horse is 'useless', the master, he said to loud applause, will simply say: 'So what?' Maharaji returned to the theme of individual effort - that this was the crux of practising Knowledge. 'This is easy to forget. I don't know why. But it is the sweetest thing when it is remembered. Let the sweetness be in your life.' The event was all but done, when Maharaji came to the keyboard to serenade the audience for the second and last time. He said he was not planning to cut a CD as he preferred to play live for the time being. He talked briefly of his eclectic musical tastes, saying his music contained a 'little twist and twang of everything.' He began to play his uplifting, gentle, lilting music, then looking over his shoulder at the lightshow projected on an adjacent wall, he laughed: 'Pretty trippy stuff.' Yes, Maharaji, you could say that! More will follow here over the next few days, but you can stay in touch with the event by subscribing to the Elan newsletter at www.elanvital.org, or visit www.evnewsletter.org. A hard copy of the newsletter is appearing every day and this is then published on the net.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:10:29 (GMT) From: duh3 Email: None To: duh2 Subject: CD offered another view:) Message:

Maharaji has said some things of real value. Don't lose sight of that with what you read on this site. Your wife will do just fine. Keep in love and don't try to 'fix' her. >I am beginning to believe that she has built so much of her inner strength on this straw god that she might fall apart if he is exposed to her as a phony. There is more to it than that. Some people do feel something inside and base their strength on that even above M. Over the years M has actaully said to trust your inner feelings above any words. Not easy to do some times though. And certainly there are contradictions in what he has said. There is no absolute in words or ideas. When you watch the evening news and also see your life as a little speck in infinite time, can you really say what true 'sanity' is. Or even what is really the most real thing in your life. Anyways, enjoy your love and friendship and you both will do just fine! CD

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:12:52 (GMT) From: done Email: None To: duh3 Subject: Jim provided rawats amaroo words Message:

From: Jim Email: None To: Everyone Subject: One terribly wrong thing m said yesterday Message: This is honestly my last post today. I've got to get a whole bunch of stuff done before we take off this weekend. But Maharaji said something terribly wrong yesterday -- duh! -- and I thought I'd comment. Okay, he said a bunch of stupid things, as usual. Did you see that bullshit about how he frees, not trains, his little ponies: 'I don't know if you have seen a wild horse. A wild horse has a spirit about it. True, it's not ride-able, but it has a spirit about it. And it runs, but not for you, and it stops, but not for you. Its main flows in the wind, but not for you. Maybe nobody has come to that horse and told him, 'You are so pretty, you are so beautiful.' But it knows anyway. And it bucks and it kicks, and it's free. Then human beings come and they take that horse and the first thing they have to do is to break its spirit. And yes, he trots and he walks, and his main still flows in the wind, but his spirit is not there. Every human being on the face of the earth is born free and runs free like that wild horse, and then everybody else and everything else tries to break that spirit. And, you know, the horse, won't let anybody ride him, no way. It bucks and kicks and bucks and kicks till its spirit is broken, and once the spirit is broken it has no problem. It stands there, somebody throws a saddle on its back, gets on top and the horse obeys the commands. Maybe one of the reasons a master is never understood properly by the world is because he takes this horse back to the wild and tries to mend the broken spirit, so that it will dance, it will walk, and it will run again, as this beautiful creature was meant to do.' Can you imagine? For a few brief moments he makes his cult members think they're all wild, unbroken spirits? How profoundly, ironically stupid. How cruel. But the thing that I wanted to mention was this: 'If you are not being judged by what you do, by what your profession is, or what your level of education is, but only how thirsty you are - is there any one thing in this world that does that? Nothing! Now this is how we are born. We were told we will need to know answers to questions. Nobody actually directly said this but it was understood. Yet, it is a self-defeating system. Because you cannot have answers to everything. It's not possible. Every time a scientist discovers something new, another Pandora's box opens up. Every time they do some research they find out that what they knew is less. Their assumptions were actually wrong. So we in our lives are told, 'You must have answers.' But we were never taught to say, 'I don't know'. There was never an option. In a multiple test, there isn't a choice that says 'I don't know the answer'. There is a book about how to take multiple tests. And it says, if you don't know the answer, pick one. Any one. Does anyone teach you to say 'I don't know.' The Master does. Because when you don't know, you can begin know about that one thing that you need to know about. How to love that which is eternal.' (emphasis added). That's an ignoramus' view of science. The notion that new discoveries scuttle the old, hence it's all back to square one all the time and we don't know anything in the end, never did, never will. Nothing could be further from the truth. Science invariably corrects and adjusts its understanding of the world but that's a process of refinement, building on what we've already got. Once in a rare, rare while some new discovery puts the lie to some previously accepted 'knowledge'. It happens, sure it happens. But it's the exception and far, far, far from the rule. Thus it's so silly when people, like Sandy below, say that there's no point learning what others think because it's not original or something. Hell, either you want to know about the world around you or you don't. Originality's useful as hell in pushing the envelope, trying to go further, even challenging current theories, of course. But it's got to be informed orginality and that means educated in the current state of accumulated knowledge we share in 2001. This new age rejection of real learning is disturbing, it completely misses the point of science's real strength which is that its a process that allows knowledge to accumulate and build on itself. Okay, gotta go. Sandy, Maharaji, you guys should go back to school, take a few science courses. Learn something for a change.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 17:25:06 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: done Subject: the carefully chosen words of the inebriate Message:

Jim, et al: Most egregious is the notion that there's no accommodation for the position 'I don't know,' when the fact is that this is the intended starting point for most systematic scientific investigation. Hence, what the hamster is talking about is clearly his own biases and complete ignorance of science. The view of science as progressive refinement and integration of knowledge gained about the 'real world' is also problematic, however. Not that this supports Maharaji's nonview of science, since the general proposition is held to be true even by it's detractors, like Thomas Kuhn. Perhaps Maharaji's reflections are informed by some liquor-muddled after-dinner conversation about Kuhn's *The Structure of Scientific Revolutions*, but he has clearly never actually read the work. While no one, including Kuhn, would argue that scientific method doesn't give us the best chance of apprehending reality, I think there is some successful challenge to the notion that this is *always' the goal of science, or that science is immune from cultural and social biases, even in the long run. (It is a lot safer to conclude that science is *always* influenced by fundamentally unscientific social and cultural biases, if only to the extent that it partly determines the direction of research and investigation.) Even the most detached areas of science, astro- and nuclear physics, are not immune from these biases. Hence, the expectation that we can easily and completely rid science of culture, or the notion that it is *inherently* independent, represent failure to grapple with the 'real world,' IMHO. The only somewhat realistic antidote suggested for this state of affairs is the 'wandering intellectual' proposed originally Mannheim, and more lately by Habermas and the 'Critical Theorists.' But this is ultimately nothing less than a way to deal with, and to some extent institutionalize, the 'I don't know' starting condition. To return to the topic, I find it enormously implausible that the systematic influence of cultic biases that denigrate critical thinking itself is, in any sense at all, the antidote for the misperceived malady--although there is some perverse logic to the notion of drinking poison in order to understand fully it's effect... --Scott

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:19:29 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: done Subject: ev's newsletter from amaroo Message:

Today's EV newsletter special from Amaroo has some typically bizarre satsang in it. Here, look: 'What's wrong with being simple? Can we investigate what simplicity offers. We know how to create doubt. What does it take to create doubt. Nothing. All you have to do is make a comment. One little comment creates that. Yet you don't have to be in doubt. Clarity has something to offer to you. This life may not have an instruction manual, this is true. But that does not mean that there are not favorite implants in this existence that bias you a certain way. To be clear is more beautiful than to be confused. To be in clarity is more beautiful that to be in doubt. I talk to aspirants, and I tell them 'keep listening, keep growing' - it's a very beautiful process for them. It's not a doctrine. Knowledge breaks traditions. In India they have the caste system. They have been trying to get rid of it. Very strongly they are trying to get rid of it. And in the caste system, those people that work with leather are considered one of the very lower castes. And who is Mira's master? Guess. He worked with leather. How can this be? Nobody understands it. There she is, totally in love and the world says she is mad. And Mira writes to herself. 'The world says I am mad. But I am not mad. I am in love. I am in love with that beauty, the perfection that touches my heart.' Why can't we all, in this life, be in love with that perfection? Why can't we also in our life have that passion? Passion for this heart. Passion to be alive. It doesn't matter how old we are or how young we are, what our situation is, where we live or what we do. In the world of Knowledge, nobody judges you based on that. Well, let me take that back. The Master doesn't. and: The world will continue to change. I’m sure things will get better and better, and different and more incredible. All these big video cameras will become small. There will be faster media. High bandwidths for everything. We still won’t know what we are communicating about, but we will be communicating. What are we saying? You see, it’s not what is on the outside. That can only reflect what is on the inside. And what is on the inside? Unless you are in touch with it, it does not matter what you have accomplished, or what you do. It carries no meaning. To me the greatest gift you can truly have is to be alive, and a greater gift still is to recognize that. Because without recognizing it, it’s like writing an essay in computer, and the directory never got written. Was the effort made? Yes. Does it exist? No. it’s gone. Some people are much like that document in a computer. Saving never happened. The button ‘save’ was never hit. It’s gone. But to recognize is beautiful. Then you know. Then you understand. That’s when gratitude begins. That’s why we come to celebrate. We need to celebrate. but the best part of all is the description of yesterday's gong show. I'm sorry this is so, so, so so SO fucking pathetic. Really, can you just imagine?: I guess it was inevitable 'I guess it was inevitable,' were Maharaji’s words as he came on stage after his presentation to sit at the keyboard in shirtsleeves and play two of his own compositions.Inevitable maybe, but no less of a delightful surprise for that, as sounds that one musical listener suggested were a blend of Beethoven and Jean-Michel Jarre floated through the star-filled sky. It was not the only unexpected moment during the evening of the second day of Amaroo 2001. Maharaji was preceded on the stage by a gently humorous speaker, who was followed by an impersonator who delighted the audiences with a series of uncanny impressions. Jack Nicholson advised people in his most abrasive manner to get to grips with what is important in life. Marlon Brando in Godfather mode welcomed so many families from around the world, whilst Woody Allen was in typical angst as he bemoaned the difficulty of understanding Kabir. Bob Dylan circa 1966 followed with an electric rock song which seemed to be about a house from hell (not a good place to dwell). As the laughter faded, Maharaji took the mike and enthralled the capacity crowd with his own unique message of the heart.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:35:55 (GMT) From: amaroo bullshit Email: None To: bill Subject: la-ex....arti and toe kissing in amaroo Message:

does all this devotion signify anything new or a recurring trend? Everytime m gets afraid, he retreats into the territiory of all-out devotion to the master, for safety. (Remember, you can't understand any of this devotional stuff with that pesky old rational mind...when are you going to let go of that thing anyway?) I think that perhaps he has taken a cold,calculated look at the whole mess.... He knows that all of his bullshit is cronicled here at EPO,for the whole world to see, forever....his credibility is shot... Even if an aspirant doesn't come here, EV knows that the possibility is always there, and eventually all the premies and aspirants will know of the site... I think he figures that there is no way to deny any of this stuff, ...he can only take the strategy of not answering... I think he knows that very few people outside of India will ever get into this.... It's time to collect the true believers, the lifers, and give them that 'good ole time religion' down under... Pump 'em up, and let it rip....no one else with any sense will come along for the ride, so bring in the few remaining faithful and get as much out of them as you can, while you can... Make up a few 'knowledge packets' and secret trainings and seminars...let them run around for awhile and do a litle service to give them something to do... The others who are too busy for that, can feel less guilty because they are not participating by donating as much money as they can...(remember Yorum Weiss said'we used to have lots of time, but no money.So we gave our time. Now we have no time, but lots of money, so now we give our money') also, it seems that amaroo will be the magical hidden place where it can 'all hang out'.... you'll be able to see m there, and only there, in his full glory, complete with toe kissing, arti and bad breath.. this will become a mecca for the true believers, and will be a special event for the chosen few... he will rake in lots of bucks from this, and premies will gladly splurge every year or two for the privelege of seeing m in this unique environment... lots of laughs, lots of drinks, lots of money rolling in... make it an exclusive club..it feels better for the true believers a few westerners will trickle in...plenty of money in the coffers from the big donors, a few businesses, and amaroo every year or two.. shred the old ev documents, deny the cult,marginalize your critics, but still drop a few 'krishna' hints now and then and dangle a few goodies before the premies... batten down the hatches, fatten up the bank accounts.. try a little propagation, see what happens.. cry when you have to, anything to avoid a law suit... we've seen this pattern before, now with a few new wrinkles... Yes, a cold, calculated business decision...

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 05:35:03 (GMT) From: CW Email: None To: amaroo bullshit Subject: You really had to be there! Message:

Ever seen someone tell the story about their ex,s new life, their exe's new lover ? You know the one 'It's so sad...' 'I tell you she's/he's SO unhappy','He's being ripped off blind!' Meanwhile their living with an Adonis,a beautiful house overlooking the bay, the kids like him , she drives a Merc and he is good and kind... 'Oh and I think he may be a child molester/sociopathic/psychotic/drug-fuelled lunatic...Oh excuse me....it's my probation officer.................... Here's the possibility. Everyone who went actually enjoyed the Event.It was well supported. There were no major problems. Hard to draw much mileage outta that one huh? LOOK OUT CATWEASEL! DUCK! HERE THEY COME!!!

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 09:26:05 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: CW Subject: Cat, I'm so happy for you all. Message:

Cat, I'm so happy you and thousands of others enjoyed the event. This is truly the fruit of your good deeds and pure souls. Your very beings have been refreshed by being in the presence of the superior power in person. I remember it well. You sit there. He talks. It doesn't even matter what he says does it Cat? Just his voice is so beautiful and his presence is so inspiring. When you're sitting at his feet, the world stops. He is the centre of the universe and the source of love. Yeah, you know that this moment, when Catweasle is at the feet of the Master, is what the universe was created for. All is one. You are home. You are breathing and your breath comes from the fat bloke on the stage in the papier mache Krishna crown, drink habit, and realtionship problems. Am I getting it right here Cat? Anth, drowning in bile, darkness, vomit, empty pet-food cans, used condoms, cigarette ends and infected blood.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 14:58:34 (GMT) From: Catweasel Email: None To: AJW Subject: Cat, I'm so happy for you all. Message:

Your sweet vision simply beguiles me Anth the troubled one. But no it was nothing like that. Hey Anth like I said 'You had to be there'

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 17:43:30 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Catweasel Subject: I'm jealous Cat, but here's a challenge for you. Message:

To think, I could have been sitting listening to the Captain telling me it's good to keep breathing. (Cough, splutter, shit, I forgot and nearly passed out then). So Cat, can you tell me one wise, insightful thing the Captain said during those heavenly days you spent at his feet? Yeah, I know it's pearls before swine, I'm lost in darkness and it will go over my head, but there maybe some poor sincere soul reading who will get great inspiration from the Captains words. Or was it just the 'Feeling', so beautiful that it was beyond words, and you couldn't tell me even if you wanted to. Cat, I admire your perseverance. Every lost cause could do with a bozo like you telling everyone black is white, up is down, and stupidity is wisdom. Oh, I hope you don't mind, I've a couple more questions. Have you ever been wrong about anything in your life? Did you line up to put some money in an envelope and kiss the Captain's feet at Amaroo? Were you told not to tell anyone about it? Anth, waiting the word of the master, watching the hidden shite.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 06:49:11 (GMT) From: Sam Hardy Email: None To: CW Subject: You really had to be there! Message:

Brilliantly inept metaphor, Dave

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:02:28 (GMT) From: CW Email: None To: Sam Hardy Subject: You really had to be there! Message:

Dave? Daves not home man.....

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 20:07:33 (GMT) From: Lesley Email: None To: CW Subject: You're right, David, you aren't home Message:

And the neighbours are complaining about the mess. Aren't you supposed to be taking a break from the forum?

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 11:39:33 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: CW Subject: ... but no-one's in (NT) Message:

HA!

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 16:24:57 (GMT) From: Disculta Email: None To: JohnT Subject: Thanks everyone and... Message:

these words from the 'Master' irritated me: 'It doesn't matter how old we are or how young we are, what our situation is, where we live or what we do. In the world of Knowledge, nobody judges you based on that. Well, let me take that back. The Master doesn't.' It makes a strange counterpoint with the description of the 'in-crowd' of people that he actually talks to - as long as they pay the price. Disculta formerly a relatively 'rich premie' who drip drip took full advantage of it drip drip

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 23:15:52 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Disculta Subject: Yeah well maybe you missed this gem from bazza Message:

'Sounded like he was determined to go out fighting though - much of the emphasis of the event was centered around him being 'the Master' and the knowledge being 'his Knowledge'. Come to think of it, that was THE only emphasis of the message this time round. They showed a clip from one of the Training meetings in which he came across really heavy, almost tyrannical, about how this was HIS knowledge and those present were damned fortunate to be ALLOWED to tell people about it. Yikes, I could sense a lot of uncomfortable shuffling going on around me. One of the most memorable lines for me was this: 'Don't ever question the purity of this knowledge, don't ever question the purity of this experience and DO NOT...EVER... question the purity of the Master' (emphasis real). As he said that last bit, I just pictured him after the event, lighting up a cig and sipping his brandy!:) But it was scary the way he is now trying to bully the remaining devotees, and newcomers, into blind obediance once more.'

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Date: Sat, May 19, 2001 at 15:56:22 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: bill Subject: Bill,isn't this why he does it that way? Message:

Bill- Concerning Bazza's report about the bullying and absolute conformity that m demands these days, similar to the old days. Even though it seems strange to us, who are now out of the cult, when you think about it, it's really the only way he CAN do it... If he allows any amount of critical thinking/reasoning in, nobody will come in or stay. That clearly won't work. The only way that he can 'work the magic' and pull them in, is to get them hooked on the bhakti/juju/self hypnosis routine that all good premies follow without question....the experience that is 'beyond the mind' and can't be explained by the 'mind', so let's all just suspend the 'mind' for awhile... It's really a 'numbers game'...most people will reject him, but the few that accept him will then also allow him to continue with his 'mastership' (bullying), and their discipleship (obedience without questioning). He sets the bar at a certain standard, and those who pass through may likely stay. The premies and aspirants see it as 'm's high standards' and 'commitment to knowledge'... I think I see it in more realistic terms of control...

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Date: Sun, May 20, 2001 at 03:03:54 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: la-ex Subject: Hi la-ex, Message:

Your posts are quite helpful and well written. I imagine lurkers think so also. This Bazza provided qoute from Miami echoes off the prison walls and lays bare the waste of so much time. It will cause a reaction at his next new england event.

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Date: Sun, May 20, 2001 at 06:33:52 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: bill Subject: Worcester headlines... Message:

If m has a program in worcester, perhaps the add in the newspaper should have the headline of: NEVER DOUBT THE PURITY OF THE MASTER! of course, personal details of his life that the readers would be directed to, might provide startling evidence to the contrary...

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Date: Sun, May 20, 2001 at 15:28:02 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: la-ex Subject: I agree, only newspapers target to widely....nt Message:

xvvnb

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 23:50:05 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Everyone Subject: It's not about money is it. Message:

Hi Everyone, My spies tell me that financially, Amaroo was a disaster and the cult are in big financial trouble once again. The programme didn't bring in the pile of cash, as hoped, in spite of the extortionate registration and camping fees. Attendance was much lower than hoped and the cult is out with the begging bowl again. The financial crisis means that any premies with any money left are going to be hit yet again for donations. They will be encouraged to take out loans, sell the family silver and put their pets and children on the street, to keep Captain Rawat in the style to which he is accustomed. The cult contines to crumble and shrink as the debts pile up. But as we all know, it's not about money is it? Anth, the confused, deluded spreader of vile lies and propaganda.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 15:11:50 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: AJW Subject: PAMs go around cities telling poor premies Message:

that money is needed, like David Smith saying taht even $5 donation would help. PAMs have found a way to justified their wrongdoing, lying to people saying that the money is low,because they so very much want to please their 'god'. is pathetic!! is like, let's keep buying toys for the brat so he doesn't get mad. When he does I feel guilty. Devotion these days is meassured according the amount of money that comes in; that should tell the PAM something about their insanity. That is the way he is meassuring 'progress' of K propagation. What a bunch of lunatics. I can't believe I fell for that. The power of persuassion is great.... simple psychology. BTW PAMS, if that is clarity and love I rather die than ever be a PAM or a premie. You guys are guilty of people dying, crazy, just as he is!There is a queen bee and the servants are making her fatter and fatter. Lard is so much disgusting than what I ever thought. What a parasite! What a low life you are RAWAT!FREE your premies you bozzo! yuck! sorry, I got carried away by the truth. LOL

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Date: Sat, May 19, 2001 at 16:35:52 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: sb Subject: a simple solution to this 'money thing'.... Message:

Yes, the cult is continually in need of more money, to spread this simple knowledge of 4 techniques... why do they continually solicit for more money, when the solution is so obvious? the satellite time is paid for...anyone can watch mr. rawat for free, if they have the 'dish'...if you don't, you can easily arrange something.... also, you can get the techniques from the 'Mahatma Mac' (not kidding, this is the new slang for the dvd knowledge that we've heard so much about...only TED Farkel has gotten it so far, and TED seems to be doing pretty well, although he recently confided to Mr.eDrek that he was thinking of crossing over to Sat Pal for awhile..)...anyway, back on topic.... mr. rawat can simply speak from his living room, or the theatre in his house, once or twice a week for free... how intimate...'fireside chats' every week with the Lord! he has a lot to teach, so twice weekly broadcasts will help continue the teachings about 'remembering to breathe' and helpful, humorous insights on not eating 'dog doo ladoos covered with sugar, when you are in India..' he talks for half hour twice a week, sends out the 'mahatma mac' and propagation continues onward, according to plan... So...why the need for more money to spread this knowledge?

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:01:17 (GMT) From: Mr Williams Email: None To: AJW Subject: It's not about money is it. Message:

Dude---you sound like a caricature of some old, sour geezer, full of bile and feculence....your spies are fucked up, to put a fine point on it. Amaroo did fine; there were between 4500 and 5000 people there; there are thousands of aspirants in the First World; I personally know many younger humans who have seen this site and think a lot of you guys are pathetic blame addicts, cult members, perennial victims; they trust what they feel, not what some disembodied rageaholic says.....personally,it's sad to see you like this. No wonder you looked & felt so strange to me the last time I saw you (Wembley, '98) I'm sorry you're so sad....I really am.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 09:08:04 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Mr Williams Subject: Yes Mr Williams, I'm choking on my own feculence. Message:

Mr Williams, I didn't know I felt strange at Wembley. And people who touch me up are usually on first name terms. So who are you? And why don't you use a name I'd recognise? Are you scared of something? Anyway, Mr Williams, you're quite right, I am an old geezer full of bile. I don't know what feculence means, but I'm probably full of that too. Anway, it's good to know somebody has sympathy for my pathetic state, since I was blinded by the darkness and denounced the Perfect Master in my blind feculence. And now I live in an imperfect world again. I'm out in the desert, dying of thirst and you're in the hotel with the air conditioning looking out the window. I'm swimming for my life with the sharks while you're sailing around with god almighty on a luxury liner. Your right Mr Williams (I'm starting to like this name), me, and the other fifty-odd thousand people in the UK who have thrown away the secret of the universe are now wallowing away in delusion, confusion, and feculusion. Many are called but few are chosen. Mr Williams, you are one of the chosen ones. I am not. I've thrown my lot back in with all the other 3 billion chimpanzees. This God business is too pure and holy for me. Darkness and light can't exist together in the same place, so I had to split. I must admit, life is empty and desolate since I jumped ship. Sure I've got my family who I love, and my friends, and my home, and the beautiful view out of the window, and a pint with my mates, and I love fishing and reading and playing music in a band, and I'm doing a bit of environmental work, and support a couple of good causes, and really enjoy food, sex, tv, radio, reading lots of books, painting, cooking, going for walks, and being with folk who haven't waved a wand over me and turned me into a demon, and accept me as I am. But compared to kissing the feet of the Perfect Master, all this is a load of shit isn't it Mr Williams? Oh boy, what I'd give to get back in the cult. I had all the answers then. I was wise and had great understanding like you Mr Williams. Shit, I had status. I used to chat with Captain Rawat himself. . Premies would hang around me waiting for a darshan story. I was a contender.And now look at me When you last saw me at Wembley, I was still connected to the superior power. I've been drowning in Hell for three years since. Boy you should see me now. I've got rusty syringes sticking out all over. Anth the feculant shadow of his former self.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 16:23:51 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: AJW Subject: Good response to the compassionate Mr. W Message:

Maybe he'll put on his guru socks and save us all! F, the one who was saved but decided she'd been slaved. Boiling shriek bad guru slave key slay. Yes I'm free, brother! I've slayed my fear that M knows squat.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 16:04:54 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Mr Williams Subject: Mr Williams, why are you here? Message:

'they trust what they feel, not what some disembodied rageaholic says' So premies don't listen to what Prem Pal says anymore? He's the only rageholic I know of. He rants and raves and you finally 'surrender' to the attack upon what you know is true. You give in to the harrangue because it's a relief to stop resisting the onslaught - so much like a deer caught in a leopard's death grip. Sweet surrender, eh? Try thinking for yourself before it is too late, too late. BTW: I am not bitter nor vindictive towards M, just awake to the real world.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:35:31 (GMT) From: CW Email: None To: Mr Williams Subject: It's not about money is it. Message:

Spot on.Anth you seem to be full of puff and wind, bile and piss. In fact your slant on seems more like a silent wish....Sleep on

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 11:45:36 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: CW Subject: CW = A trapped dreamer who lies in his dreaming... Message:

... while his Master still leaches for more ...

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:50:58 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: CW Subject: I see CW aka Victoria got her Bitterness back Message:

The Amaroo foot fetish festival of gurujism and bhakti juju must be wearing off.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:42:53 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: CW Subject: Ooops, sorry Cat., Message:

Looks like I got it wrong. I retract everything. The cult is doing real well financially. Amaroo was a great success, in fact is was so crowded, nobody else could get in. And the money? well that's rolling in faster than sand blowing off the desert, so everybody can put their cheque books away. Their extra bit of cash isn't really needed. And when the phone call comes asking for the dough, tell them it's not required. Catweasel said the cult's doing OK. Anth the humble and apologetic.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 15:05:04 (GMT) From: CW Email: None To: AJW Subject: Mr Williams said that Mr Sadsack Message:

The pity is you see yourself as so obsessively clever whereas in truth you are just plain obsessive Anth pet.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 17:29:42 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: CW Subject: Yup, right again Cat. Message:

I'm really in a mess. You're right Cat, I'm just obsessive. Maybe I should come back to zombie-cult-world, stick pictures of Captain Rawat on the wall, sit crosslegged in front of them for an hour or two a day, go to watch videos of him a couple of times a week, read his holy words, tell people about him, travel around the world and spend all my money going to see him, bow down before him and kiss his feet, sing songs to him, worship him, drink his bathwater, eat his leftovers, wear his hand-me-down clothes, write letters to him, get an email with his divine words every couple of days, try to love him more than my family, send him all my money. Yeah, that should cure me of my obsessional nature. Cat, keep talking, I think you're persuading me. I'm weakening. You speak so much sense. I could be the first Ex to come back to the cult. Anth the Obsessive.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:34:45 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Mr Williams Subject: Mr Williams aka Cerise aka .....? Oh, Catweasel.. Message:

Mr Williams - the true authoritarian totalitarian face of the cute little old Pewk who just got so blissed out on guru juju in Amaroo? Do you simply send the messages you write under your various aliases by email to a pal and let them post them for you? Or are all Pewks as smarmy as you? Some are but most aren't. I hope this is not CW aka Catweasel aka Victoria Bitter because the post by CW towards the end of the thread just above this one submitted not long ago seemed so un-authoritarian, relaxed, easy-going and ''live and let live.'' Since you got back from Amaroo, Catweasel, you have been so unlike your usual self-righteous and holier than thou judgmental, bitter, defensive and paranoid self which this post by the socalled Mr Williams reeks of. When I read your post about the bliss of Amaroo I could hardly believe that it was the old Catweasel because you almost sounded human, democratic, egalitarian and willing to agree to disagree and admit that you had a subjective experience which not everybody wants - the guru worship/bhakti juju I mean. Don't smarmy holier than thou Pewks like Mr Williams give you the creeps, Catweasel?

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 15:12:47 (GMT) From: CW Email: None To: PatC Subject: Mr Williams aka Cerise aka .....? Oh, Catweasel.. Message:

Yes . What's really interesting is what sort of X's they turn into. No , I'm not Mr Williams (whoever that might be) I only ever post under CW, Catweasel and occaisonally as the super attractive green icon of all things Australian ;Victoria Bitter. She will make your head spin. So Pat please dont get paranoid. As Popeye once said 'I Yam who I YAM.....'

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 18:12:50 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: CW Subject: How can you call me paranoid when I am starting Message:

to like you? You really do seem nicer, Cat, since the foot festival. You know I believe in de gustibus non est disputandum and would never think to criticize how you get your jollies in a malicious way. I am glad that you are feeling more mellow and easy-going. But don't think that, just because I am starting to see you as a human being and warm up to you, that I will stop enjoying the Baby Throwing Festivals. Like you I still enjoy ''Knowledge'' and, like you, I find that ''you have to be there to enjoy it'' because it is subjective and personal. But I'm just not a guru type of guy. Anyone who sets themselves up on a throne in my democratic world deserves to be made fun of. We'll have to agree to disagree. But, Cat, isn't Mr William's smug?

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 16:15:39 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: CW Subject: I am that I am Message:

I guess CW doesn't get the popeye joke. HA! Perhaps you should ask your master to explain, eh, pussy?

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 01:14:32 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: AJW Subject: Nothing has changed but Message:

he gets richer and richer. They have ALWAYS been in need of cash. I don't understand! The mastard is a spoil inmature greedy brat. BTW: GROW UP RAWAT! My spies tell me that financially, Amaroo was a disaster and the cult are in big financial trouble once again. The programme didn't bring in the pile of cash, as hoped, in spite of the extortionate registration and camping fees. Attendance was much lower than hoped and the cult is out with the begging bowl again. He has been begging from day one, That is the theme, we need money, we have a big deficit,just another EV manipulation to please their living little imaginary god. The fools, victims, robots, whatever. MAHARAJI IS NO FOOL AND HE READS THIS FORUM. To this point is obvious the guy is sick. Is not right how he misleads people! hi anth! :)

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 09:13:07 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: sb Subject: It's Millenium 2 Message:

Hi sb, I don't know if you were around in the days of Millenium, when seats in the Houston Astrodome were reserved for aliens, but I think the cult is having a rerun. They were very badly broke after stretching themselves to pay for the Astrodome and went into a tailspin afterwards. I think they're in the same situation now. Apparently they have even stopped mailing their members in the UK because they can't afford the stamps. All the chosen ones are being told to look on the internet for info instead. Anth

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 12:54:46 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: AJW Subject: unbelievable! Message:

I can't stop laughing....aughhhhh... ROFL What part of no they don't understand? People do not want to belong to a cult run by a wanna be god! I like your humor. SB

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 00:01:52 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: AJW Subject: Aren't you up awfully late, Pumpkin? Message:

Nice to see you again. How are you? I wonder if Balyouguesswhat will dip into the money he stole from the ashram premies and stashed in stocks etc? After all it really isn't about the money. It's all about bringing peace to the whole world in his life-time. The Singing Rawats may have to broaden their money earning base. Next it will be the Rawat Family Circus. Wadi and Daya doing oil wrestling. Hansi keeping the books for the audience's bets. Amar wrestling kangaroos from Amaroo and Pimple Rawat wrestling alligators from Kissimee. And for ten bucks you can watch the nail polish dry on Drugaji's toes. (That's not a typo - I heard she's hooked on prescription meds ever since her brain surgery for which I am truly sorry.)

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 00:25:57 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: PatC Subject: The drugs wore off Pat. (ot) Message:

Hi Pat, I'm doing fine. I'm hiding out in the wilds of Britain. Apparently I just finished a six month contract in the Netherlands, and lived just around the corner from a Coffee Shop that sold 89 different kinds of dope. But I can't remember anything. My wife tells me I used to be in a religious cult too- but that's gone as well. Anyway, I'm sitting here with a tartan blanket on my knees. Dot is wiping the dribble from my chin and telling me about my past life on the planet. And to think, it all used to be an illusion once. Anth, time for my warm milk.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 00:32:17 (GMT) From: Moldy Warp Email: None To: AJW Subject: Hey Anth - which wilds you talking about??? Message:

love Moldy who lives in a very wild part of Britain

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 00:34:44 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Moldy Warp Subject: Oil let you know drekly. Message:

Hi Moldy, We're down in Cornwall in a cabin on the cliffs, facing Brittany. Where are you? Anth the Cliffhanger.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 00:42:06 (GMT) From: Moldy Warp Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com To: AJW Subject: Oil let you know drekly - or isn't that milk??? Message:

I'm in the wild north barbarian lands of Newcastle-upon-Tyne. How longya in Cornwall??? Once went there and had interesting experience in sleeping bag on a beach - but that's another story!!! PS Can you actually see Brittany??? Moldy Warp who's third eye is severly malfunctionong and finds it difficult to see beyond her nose at times

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 01:03:07 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Moldy Warp Subject: Oil let you know drekly - or isn't that milk??? Message:

Hi Moldy, I hope to be here for the summer. Drekly is a Cornish word. It means, 'Some indeterminate time in the future.' I also had an interesting experience in a sleeping bag on the beach here. I decided to go down and sleep under the stars on the sand. I got into my sleeping back and lasted about 30 seconds. All these little creatures called Sandhoppers started leaping onto my face and scared me to death. Anth scared of insects. ps. Is it true that the rainbows are black and white in Newcastle?

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 09:23:05 (GMT) From: Moldy Warp Email: moldy_warp@hotmail To: AJW Subject: Sandhoppers nasty but not as bad as Message:

Sandworms!! Unfortunately my sleeping bag incident is not suitable for a public forum!! I thought 'drekly' meant 'directly' but then I am just an ignorant northern wench.. though in my (long-gone!) Findhornesque days I did wonder if I could communicate with Cornish pixies (not to mention the cauliflower deity). Goody, if you're in Cornwall for the summer... perhaps me and my best pal could rendevous avec vous drekly. PS Didn't you know that the whole of Newcastle is in black and white?

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 07:01:34 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: AJW and moldy Subject: I wanna come see the wilds of britain-waaah! Message:

how much would it cost me to put a trip together? can I come stay with you, and wander the forests and the moors, fens, bogs, lakes, lanes, wolds, valleys, dales, cliffs and the like? what should i pack?

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 09:17:59 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: janet Subject: Welcome to Radioactive Britain. Message:

Hi janet, Just bring the bare essentials. Food (all our food is infected with horrible viruses) Helicopter. (You can't walk anywhere in case you spread horrible viruses, and the trains don't work.) Something to read. (There's nothing worth watching on British TV until the football season starts again.) Make sure you've got health insurance. All the british healthcare budget has been diverted to support Star Wars 2. Oh yes, bring a weapon, you never know. But if you do make it, look us up and you can have a cup of tea, looking out over the radioactive ocean. Anth of the British Tourist Board.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 10:13:45 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: AJW Subject: Radioactive Britain--would that be the Beeb? Message:

hey no worries. I lived next door to an IHOP that was built on the radioactive waste of Marie Curie's lab, for ten years. This, while also living downwind of the Rocky Flats Nuclear Trigger Plant when they fnally decommissioned it, and went in and cleaned out the seven pounds of Plutonium dust, that was dislodged and escaped into the ambient air currents, from the air ducts that ran thru the building, all the years that the triggers for nuclear weapons were in production there. In fact, quite a number of the streets of Denver were paved with radioactive waste. It was an exciting place to live. does the ocean glow at night? it does in Jones Beach, New York. Phosphorescent trails, like little galaxies, spin away into the depths at the tips of your fingers, when you sweep them thru the waters at night under the moon.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 00:14:13 (GMT) From: Moldy warp Email: moldy_warp@hotmail.com To: PatC Subject: Pumpkin? IsAJW about to turn into a Stagecoach ?nt Message:

x

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 21:58:15 (GMT) From: From bellow Email: None To: Everyone Subject: More sick premies. Message:

Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 11:49:56 From: Suzanne Email: None To: SB Subject: Similar Experience Message: I have a dear friend who is a premie. I really care about her, but now that I am no longer a premie, she is almost afraid of me. It is so strange. I keep telling her that I'm still me, I haven't changed -- I'm still the same person she always knew and I'm just recognizing the reality that knowledge never worked for me. But her life is a complete mess. She takes several kinds of drugs to help her deal with depression and anxiety. She is constantly trying to clean and purify herself through her diet, and yet she is sick all the time. She spends money going to see m that she doesn't have. Her kids think she's nuts. It's almost like her life is such a mess that she holds on to m for fear that it would be even worse. I don't know what to say to her. All I can do is try to be her friend and let her know I'm here for her. It's very sad, really, because I think being a premie just makes her life so much worse. It adds pressure to 'practice,' it costs her money she doesn't have, and she's holding on to something that is no help at all. MAHARAJI SUCKS!! SB

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 07:52:24 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: From bellow Subject: i think you should share that with her honestly. Message:

the subconscious hears everything you say, even if the person fights you on the surface. maybe she's afraid to venture out beyond the accepted world of knowledge for fear she'll be excommunicated (hey-- i just coined a new term for us telling premies what we really think. 'ex-communicated') or come down with leprosy or something for violating the forbidden perimeter. Maybe you could invite her to go with you to things you think would have a good influence on her, might even undermine and supplant some of that premie belief. theres a page on TranceNet by joe Kellet that describes a similar hell that TM'ers get caught in, where they are told that no matter how much pain or illness or emotional agony they are going thru, it must be the meditation liberating something from deep within them and that its all good and one must not stop for any reason. and Joe tells how people who finally do stop, because they just can't take it anymore and aren getting any help with it, hey--whaddya know--it stops. the sky does not fall. the soul does not explode. all hell does not break loose. they feel better and they get better. I don't thin anyone would dispute me on this point: we were obsessed with 'purification'. we tried to realize God thru food. it was another food neurosis every bit as deluded as anorexia or bulimia or obesity. its right up there with the jehovah's witnesses and christian scientists refusing and denying their family medical treatment and saying that God and their faith would heal them. I know we did that with herbs and acuputure and every other method you could name. anything, so ong as it wasnt the conventional reliance on 'worldly, mindy doctors' I had a premie friend in the 80's who went blind in one eye and had to have it cut out of his head, from glaucoma. the pain drove him into the arms of regular doctors after years of fear that what was causing the pain was a brain tumor, and herbs and the rest were no helpp. the doctor was a wunderkind. he sadly explained to my friend that if he had gone to a hospital back at the first sign of the first pain, they had eyedrops that could have relieved the pressure in his eyeball and saved his eye and his sight, in it. he was very gentle with my friend, thru the trauma of reaching the irrevocable conclusion of no possible treatment left but amputation of the dead eye out of his skull. i tell you all this in order to reach your friend. print this and hand it to her. what she is doing is obsessive-compulsive, and she is doing it out of a deeply planted belief that was intriduced to her at a very impressionable point in her life, that if she just did enough 'purification', she would reach perfection. she is endangering her life, and we only get one, apiece. you might also relay to her the true story of how my child's father suffered for three weeks bedridden with a sky high fever that wouldnt come down, and bloody diarrhea, because an herbalist told him he could treat what ailed him with 'natural remedies and purification'. at the three week mark, he finally asked to be driven to the ER, where the doctor on call that night told him that if they didnt open him up within 40 minutes, he would die. He consented. And in the OR, they cut open his belly and found a seething cesspool of weeks old shit, blood, pus and plasma. In flooding out the abdominal cavity with sterile water so they could see what the hell they were looking at, they finally saw that his large intestine had been eaten through in so many places, it literally fell apart in shreds as they removed it to save his life. like Pat C, he received an ostomy out the side of his body. He was put on antibiotics and close watch. for months, his body digested itself because his intestines couldnt do it yet. Weight melted off him like hot candle wax. He went down to skin and bones before it reached its limit, and then began to rebuild and climb back to normal. What he had was identified at Crohn's disease. It was traced back to a jug of milk he drank at dinner about a week before the fever came on. If he hadn't --like all of us--been subject to 28 years of superstitious, mythical, irrational, mystical thinkng and propaganda that the world was an illusion and ignorant and didnt know what we knew--- which is what I would bet my check your friend clings to still-- he would have gone to a doctor when the fever first came on, and it never would have reached the extreme of destroying his bowel so that he had to sacrifice his colon in order to save his life within 40 minutes. I want your friend to read this and know what she's acting on. She needs to know that these longtime, gung ho, utterly serious, impressionable premies before her have believed the same way and tried to live by the same promises and myths--and this is where it put them.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 13:23:11 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: suzanne Subject: SUZANNE: Read janet's post for you above. Message:

that is good janet! I reposted Suzanne's post. I like you janet! sb

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 00:20:45 (GMT) From: Moldy Warp Email: None To: From bellow Subject: Yes indeed Maharaji sucks!!!nt Message:

x

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 11:58:05 (GMT) From: EBay Alert Email: None To: Everyone Subject: GURU PUJA Songbook 1974 Photos KRISHNA BUDDAH Message:

Here's a collector's item for all of you premie lurkers out there, a collection of songs praising his the Guru Puja with a photo of one stoned young dude on the cover. Some of the songs you may know by heart, but if not, you can learn them and then you won't have to follow the bouncing ball across the lyrics next time you go down to Amaroo. Impress your premie friends with your ability to recite Arti, Guru Maharaj Ji has the Holy Name, and everybody's favourite: Lila (not performed by Eric Clapton) and who can forget: Peace and Bliss Is Satguru, an industry fave. That's right, bid now and also receive: the gift of knowledge, a little known trade secret from the mystic country of India, passed down through generations from the beginnig of time. You will also recieve a Smart Card, which allows you to attend events sponsored by Elan Vital, that's right, you've heard about them in France, now you can go to one of their shows as they invite you to listen to the Perfect Master, I mean the New Age meditation teacher speak to you about 'this life', not some re-incarnation rhetoric commonly associated with hindi beliefs, but the life your living now. So act quickly, don't delay, bidding starts at $3.99. Below is the link to the item and a description with the names of the songs you will receive. SongBook This is a 114 page SONGBOOK (sheet music and lyrics) by GURU PUJA entitled “1974 Songbook – Songs” published by Divine Light Mission in 1974. There are twelve photos of GURU PUJA at various times of his life and most are full-page shots. Songs are: Amazing Grace, And The Music, Arti, As Beautiful As You, Daisies, Do You Want To See The Majesty, Dove Song, First Time I Saw Him, Golden Way, Green Were The Hills, Guru Is The Father Of All, Guru Maharaj Ji has the Holy Name, Guru Maharaj You Are So Big, Hallelujah, I Come To My Lord, If You Call My Name, I Love You My Lord, King of Kings, Lila, Little Tears Of Happiness, Lord Of The Universe, Namaste, Natural Way, Never Ending Well, Now That I’ve Found Him, Oh Lord We’ve Been Waiting So Long, One In The Spirit, Peace and Bliss Is Satguru, Peeling The Mold, People Come See Your Creator, People Listen To the Message Of The Lord, Perfect Lord, Premie’s Song, Shining Grace, Spread This Knowledge, Subtle Prayer, That’s The Way Of The Lord, There’s A Light In You, Tristan’s Song, True Love, Twameve Mata, Two Rivers, Voice of the Wind, We Belong To One Family, We Love You Guru Maharaj Ji, Who Is Guru Maharaj Ji?, You Are My Only Light, Your Grace. Condition is VG++. Money orders & Cashiers Cheques preferred for payment. Shipping is $4.00. Please see my other auctions and save money on shipping by combining with other items. Thanks! Disclaimer: This marketing advertisement has been brought to you by an association not connected with Elan Vital, Visions International, Grumann Aircraft or any other association which has in any way, shape or form, a connection with Prem Pal Rawat, aka the Guru Maharaji, The Perfect Master, The Lord of the Universe, God or any other name associated (or once used by any other race of beings, human or extraterrestrial) with any other supreme diety.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 16:15:09 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: EBay Alert Subject: those songs !! Like Kindergarten Message:

Hi all, thanks again for the responses below. I cannot believe someone like me ever sang, Maharaji you are so big and I am so smaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllll but when you shine you shine for all yes you shine for all My Lord. Well I'm not so small meself, been in a slump exercise wise for a year now. got the doctor lecture yesterday. But M is still bigger, (larger?) but not in the way I had envisioned back then :)

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Date: Sun, May 20, 2001 at 04:25:18 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Selene Subject: To: Selene Message:

Dear Selene, I'm sorry I wasn't on line when you started your thread below. My fucking computer has been broken for a week and I finally have been able to get on line. Grrrrrrr....... I read your posts, about your mother and all the posts below your thread. Mothers are a tough subject. I won't go into it at the moment because I am wired from having attended the memorial party for my friend who died last month. I've been crying all afternoon. Now I am refreshed. Maharaji? Easy? Tough? Both! He is a son-of-a-bitch, a fuckhead, a liar and a fraud. He took our lives and deprived us of our youth. He's tough because he brainwashed us into believing he was above all others. He is easy because he is now so transparent to those of us who have exited. Hate is a strong feeling and I have felt it for him, for my own father, and even toward my mother. But my wise counselor told me to not orphan myself from my Mom once and I didn't understand it at the time but now I do. My (premie) sister's therapist told her the same thing. I think that the connection between all children and their mothers is so primal that unless there are extraordinary circumstances (like being denied your family by a cult, or abuse by a mother) that just the sound of 'Mother's' voice is a connection unbroken forever. Maharaji is a mutherfucking idiot who took my life and separated me from my mother. Now that I understand and accept my Mom's circumstances with ''Dad'' I know that she could never have left my father. He would have murdered us all. We would have made the headlines of the Hartford Courant: ''Man kills wife and five daughters.'' Which makes me more pissed off at Maharaji because if I wasn't so fucked up in his cult, I might have assisted her in leaving him sooner. When I left the ashram in Gainesville, I returned to Connecticut and stayed with my parents and youngest sister for a week. When they met me at the airport, they looked like the living dead. Yet, within a couple of months, my Mom found the courage to kick his ass out. And I know it was because I was there. You see, because I have an uncanny ability to dissociate, there was a part of me that was the protector of my Mother and Sisters. I kicked him in the balls when I was 17 and he never laid a hand on me again. He feared me. He feared ME! That's why I have been able to hate Maharaji and know it won't last forever and it won't kill me. So many people think hate is such a terrible thing. For me, it is a process of learning what I am angry about and then, with a lot of emotional strength, pain, and elation, I can let it roll off my back. Now, that's how I feel today mind you! I believe that I can never let Maharaji off the hook for a lot of things, one of which is missing my youngest sister Paula's graduation from high school (when she was so wounded and needy) because Maharaji had a program I had to attend! No. Forgiveness is very far off. I feel a hatred for him just for that one deprivation (and there are many more). My sister needed me and I chose that fucker! So fuck him! He's not off the hook! Yet, I can't live in hatred. It's awful lonely there and it feels like shit. I can't give you advice, you are far smarter than I. I hope you are feeling better. Btw, I have that fucking songbook! It's a doozy! Jeezum Crow, I have a fuckin' e-bay product! Wow, I'm impressed! Sarcasm aside, Selene, you take care of yourself, baby yourself and you be well because you've been through a lot and deserve it. Much Love, Cynthia

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Date: Sun, May 20, 2001 at 19:17:24 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Cynthia thanks Message:

Your story about your family is how it was for so many of us, the fear and disassociation and all. What stories we all have and what survivors we are!! Hope you are doing ok, and get to read this. I haven't been on forum all that much so I missed your post until now. Honestly that was one of the worst holidays I have EVER gone through. And we all know why and what it was about. I had a delayed reaction to it all , delayed a few days because the weekend was so busy and fun actually. it's ok now and I'm better for having expressed it and gone through it.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:44:40 (GMT) From: beel Email: None To: Selene Subject: Larkins updated arti lyrics Message:

From: Larkin Email: None To: G Subject: Arti - the updated lyrics... Message: Vegetation begins in the word of our master Re-education begins at the feet of our lord Subjugation begins in the form of our master Humiliation begins in the grace of our lord. Jai Gurudev Maharaj ji Your glory fills your head Exploiter of the weary and the weak You know the power of entrapment You showed us all just what 'crap' meant Realization don't come cheap, Jai Dev Jai Satguru Dev Fabricator, self-server, destroyer Why do they bow and pray to you? Have they really nothing better to do? Guru gives true Knowledge Sign on right here at Mindwarp College Realization don't come cheap, Jai Dev Jai Satguru Dev Chanting, fasting, charity, austerity Will never bring you knowledge of the soul Will never reveal your soul Without the grace of Satguru WITH OR WITHOUT our rich fat guru Realization don't come cheap, Jai Dev Jai Satguru Dev In the river of bondage to Guru All are swept out to sea All are drowning there so blissfully Guru's boat is a holey one A 'watch yourself drown very slowly' one Realization don't come cheap, Jai Dev Jai Satguru Dev Anger, desires, attachments Are what being human's all about Things we couldn't really do without Guru don't like self-expression, But anger suppressed is depression TIME TO LOSE YOUR CHAINS, STAND UP AND SHOUT! (Jai Dev, Jai Satguru Dev) Jai Gurudev Maharaj ji Tell us please, what sets you so apart? Why should people even give a fart? Without the grace of Satguru We might all find we've a lot to do Science, music, poetry and art, Jai Dev, So long Satguru Dev....

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Date: Sat, May 19, 2001 at 03:28:20 (GMT) From: creativejani Email: None To: beel Subject: Larkins updated arti lyrics - brilliant! Message:

That's really good - I'm a songwriter myself, and there are some very clever rhymes in there, plus alot of insight. Anyone remember 'Spread this Knowlege'? The Anand Band - satsang was fun and inspirational back then - live music and everything! I think it was when M started writing the music for the videos as well as doing everything else that I began to get a bit pissed off with him. are you a writer/poet/songwriter? Or was that a one-off stroke of genius?

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 16:17:58 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: beel Subject: 'anger suppressed is depression' Message:

Briliant synopsis of Life With Knowledge, Larkin.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:06:14 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: beel Subject: HAIL HAIL! BRAVO! Long overdue! our anthem! Message:

...except I must nit pick and cavil in the tradition of the forum, and point out that the line before 'jai dev' should always rhyme with the second line of the stanza being sung at the time. you are of course free to rework it, since its your creation. and when we bow down at the end, we turn and face away from him, buttocks aimed at him, and fart loudly in his general die-reck shonn. and for the arti candle effect, the one closest to the man puts a lighter behind his buttocks so that his fart blasts the blowtorch effect.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 07:52:15 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: beel Subject: Larkins arti lyrics - Guru's boat is a holey one Message:

Glad you reposted that. I enjoyed it more the second time around, Larkin.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 03:21:26 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Everyone Subject: my unofficial journey and ??? Message:

I'm using that title for my post because: My REAL journey began when I truly left the damned cult and found this web site. Call me an internet junkie whatever. I work at a computer center and develop and program for a living if that is any excuse and I think it is, big time because online life is very real to me. At the end of dec. 97 I gave up each and every one of my sacred cows of belief in so many ways, when I left that shithead M. Then and only then could I even begin to process what had happened and is happening to me. My life before then is a life as a premie and I don't feel it is worth a journey entry or constant reminiscing here. I hate you M for my losing those normal formative years of the 20s and 30s. I hate you and your stupid cult. The hate, I hope will subside as any festering wound heals in a healthy person. Right now it is a bright red scar. up yours M. I know better than to sign off forever I am too addicted to everything and online too much. I'm just very bummed tonight. It's complex. I do not like the feelings that keep being stirred up, although I think Mother's Day may have been partially responsible for that. I wish someone had answered my posts in that thread, I was going through so much last weekend, still am but I guess I am from the wrong geographical area or too many typos or something. am bummed sorry. Sometimes this happens. If some one can start threads about UFO's I can start this thread and say this. Also read something today that set me off. I cannot publish it but it does have to do with the f&&king cult. Please do not ask me as it is a personal thing and unlike some I don't like to publish my old connections . YUCK to all that.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 13:27:45 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: Selene Subject: what about answering the phone? Message:

I called you, more than once. I'm here if you want to talk, I'm at home.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 15:51:14 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: sb Subject: sorry sb!! I'll try to call today Message:

I am bad about answering I'm hoping ot only work half day today so I'll try to call. I ended up working mostly a full day yesterday.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 16:56:17 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: Selene Subject: no problem Message:

I'm glad you are ok, meaning, since you said you were going to be there at 5 I have some thoughts, if you know what I mean... I'm very busy myself. I keep taking brakes and calming my resurfaced addiction: Talk about about huhu and telling the truth. :) Take care of yourself, we'll talk. I'm there with you. Your friend, S

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 01:13:48 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: Selene Subject: Je ne regrette rien... you know Message:

the song I'm sure . It's one of my favourites when I'm feeling up against the wall past wise . Please do reminisce about your premie days , that's one of the purposes of the forum . Who else will understand what you're talking about ? Your anger at being betrayed by the cosmic lover will subside , leaving what ? who knows . Revenge is a dish best eaten cold . Watch out Rawat ; someone , somewhere , somehow amongst the ranks of your former gopis will find the chink in your armour. Then straight through your heart & right into the depths of where it really hurts : your fucking WALLET . Cheer up Selene , we're on a mission from ..........?

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:09:47 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Bin Liner and all Subject: revenge is a dish best SERVED cold' is the line. Message:

nt.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 16:29:39 (GMT) From: Sonata Email: None To: Selene Subject: Perhaps Try a 'Wailing Wall' Message:

Hi Selene, My little bit of advice .... Find a wall somewhere, tack up a picture of FatRat, then proceed to toss eggs, glass jars of spaghetti sauce, oh and don't forget a cheap pie right at his third eye. I like the sauce and pie the best as it brings to mind the 'Diabolical Hatred' fomenting in Fatrats soul, reflecting through his eyes as seen in the picture of him after the pie fiasco. It's out on this site somewhere. I believe the pie picture is the MOST REALISTIC of Guru Maharaji. No doubt in my mind he had that same look after his 'hit and run', chinese fire drill murder' in India. Bet he gets that look too when he reads this site. Yep, eyes are a window to his dark, dark soul. Best to you. Sonata Sonata

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 16:05:57 (GMT) From: Bob Email: None To: Selene Subject: my unofficial journey and ??? Message:

My impression , after re-reading your mothersday post was that you did very well in dealing with the traumatic past, trying to do better with your own kids, and being aware (dream) of the risk of falling in the same trap. You deserve to be feeling good about that. And it is true, apart from grieving about lost time and some gurohism withdrawal symptoms things do get better, and more real-life like. Fortunately the human lifespan is more than just 30 or 40 years, and people do stay younger longer now!

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 15:05:27 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Selene Subject: Dear Selene, the hate will subside. Message:

I'm crying. We owe to ourselves to take the power back we gave rawat so we can integrate, put together our being to feel whole again. You know well how I hated him when I became an ex-premie and how very angry I was.I hate him still, I resent too and I said it few times here lately, that so much precious times was stolen from me because a fat ass ignorant told me I need it something to feel complete, but all is getting better and better. If I did it, if I grew, if I got to the point where feeling good was more important than feeling bad, me, S, crazy as I was few months a go anybody can do it and you too will get there if you really want to. Take what you can taht you may have learned and run with it. Like we were talking on the phone, it's a way of growing up. I believe taht for some us, the cult didn't allow us to pass in a way adolescense, we learned inmature behavior, he kept some of us trapped in believeing that depending on his grace for everything was the way to live when in reality made us weack human beings. I feel so strong and 'centered' today that I cannot put it in words. Don't close your heart either. Love is the answer. Rawat is an ignorant entity,a lower being who sees a necesity to play such a stupid power game and luckily we don't want it any more. In the essence of all we are one and hating him was hurting me. I hate his personality, his ignorance, his power over people, etc. but, if he really was a real human being he would refrain from his ugly practices but he is too low for that. Understanding will make the hate lessens more and more until the bad emotions change into something more positive tahn ventilating anger. When I post here many times I take as therapy, healing, also, knowing that lurkers usually don't go to the archives right away I want to write what I feel need to be said. I don't get tired of writting about bad is too have a master, but I have started to give up the hate I felt because it was hurting ME. I owe myself much and I will give that to myself simply because I can. Nature works and we are part of it. Listen to your instinct, heart, whatever you want to call it. To me it's your higher intelligence at work. Selene, we are getting better. Is going to get even better. I love you Selene. I want to talk with you today. Is it ok if I call you or you want me to wait? Grab somewhere a Taoism book if you can. It helped me a lot to understand the ensalada I had in my head. More than what therapy did. Some of it is BS, like most books, but there is so much goodness in it. I feel whole again, as I felt before I met gurushit, fresh. Cheer up! we can't do nothing about the past. Life is good. I send you a big tight loving hug! S

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 00:40:17 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: SB/Selene Subject: Dear Selene, the hate will subside. Message:

I heard somewhere today that the hard things we integrate, like this cult/dysfunctional family stuff etc make us stronger. The hard part is to do the work and integrate it. I liked your post SB. Selene, I am sorry I didn't respond to your Mother's Day post about your mom. I have the attention span of a gnat on crack anyway, but also these days I try to flit about on the forum very quickly and not get too addicted to it myself. Being addicted to this place did NOT make my life better, so I do try to read a bit but not too much. It's too consuming. The Mother thing is a very intense subject for me and apparently for you and for alot of us. No doubt Mother's Day did stir up alot up within you as your Mom's death is still quite recent. Hang in there. We're all working towards self-acceptance, IMO. M's whole schtick was about self-rejection and self-hate which we needed like chronic diarrhea. So take care of yourself. Helen

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 17:19:05 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: SB Subject: You are on a roll, SB Message:

I've been so much enjoying reading your posts in the past few days. It is obvious that you are feeling strong and clear and happy. It is so true that the best revenge is to live well. Thanks for your wonderful ''satsang.'' It's better than anything I have heard from Mahahaharaji or PWKs in years.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 18:03:53 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: PatC Subject: You are on a roll, SB Message:

yes, is very sweet. I get my 'spells' but they last very little. Thanks PatC, I enjoy your posts too very much. We are all wonderful people, except rat (lol) (not yet) (more lol)and premies don't know what they are missing. This makes K as taught by ratashit peanuts! No, I am not manic, you that know. I'm serene and happy.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 18:11:25 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: sb Subject: serene and happy - I know you are Message:

Me too. Everyday is better without having an association with that embarassing Rev Moon Beam of whom I was so ashamed. It's so nice to keep the company of decent people instead of a crook, thief and liar.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 18:50:07 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: PatC Subject: So true!! Message:

It's so nice to keep the company of decent people instead of a crook, thief and liar. I can relate to that I too feel decent know, I feel clean, read by that I felt dirty. How many stupid things we did because of him? ratashi is a mean, ignorant, little person. Glad to 'see' you happy :)

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 13:35:57 (GMT) From: Katie Email: None To: Selene Subject: Selene - mother's day and all Message:

Hey Selene - I hope you are feeling better today. Sorry about no one answering the Mother's Day posts - I know how that feels and it is frustrating. I couldn't even READ most of that thread because of the feelings it brought up. (I have been reading one or two posts at a time, then having to stop.) BTW, I think your life since finding this site would be a great Journeys entry - hope you write it (in your own inimitable style, too). Love to you, Katie

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 13:12:33 (GMT) From: Salam Email: salam_au@iprimus.com.au To: Selene Subject: Selene me dear. Message:

Am not going to give you a sermon on psychological rehab. Instead, Be happy, Make more typos and fuck gug haji. You are more important than anything else. (much good this advice is) Take care of yourself love you Salam p.s. my e-mail is up if you want to write.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 18:52:23 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: Salam Subject: Selene me dear. Message:

but it's the subconscient mind at work, all the garbage we heard for years that creates those what I call bad spells. Is not that easy sometimes and You know it.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 13:43:55 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: Salam Subject: and Message:

Like PatC said. I went to read your post in the mother's day thread and could not find anything in it. Well, I don't think you are a you know what. At least Jim is not here to dispute this. So you do have the chance to say what you want me dear. Ther is no shame in doing so. you know as well as many people that post here that you will get support if you ask for it. (don't listen to what I say anyway, am as blind as a bat)

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 22:23:02 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: salam Subject: and Message:

you are not blind. You are complete and you do not need anything from outside.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 11:48:22 (GMT) From: Prof Heinz Baked-Beans Email: lab@physics.edu To: Selene Subject: New scientific paper Message:

Hmm, hate of Maharaji is directly proportional to the poisonous crap that spews forth from his mouth multiplied by his dollars, to the power of how bad you feel that particular day. This is formularised below:   B H = (C x $)   So there you have it! The mathematically reckognised theory of ex-premie-ivity.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 04:57:10 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: my fans (just kidding!) Subject: ok thanks to......... Message:

All the people that emailed me and or called. Although the lack of response here on line makes me loooooossseeee my place in Miss Forum 5 :: I think email and phone calls are best in these situations and I do appreciate every one of you very very much. Thank you and you know who you all are for the (very!) quick responses. Unlike some of my off-the-wall posts, this previous one was intense and it was answered right away and I am touched. Thank whatever, another holiday is over. Hallmark you suck. L, Selene

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 06:18:21 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: notinherent@yahoo.com To: Selene Subject: Don't have your e-mail Selene Message:

So I'll have to tell you I appreciate you right here and I'm sorry you're bummed. I don't get in 1/2 these threads and didn't see your posts that were reaching out, so to speak, or I would have responded. I think a lot of people would have. Sorry it got lost in the dust. This may sound like bullshit psychology, but I spent much of my teenage years and early 20s as a 'victim' and on and off had some serious suicidal ideations. First M and K seemed to cure them, but of course, the cult fed into the neurosis and only made it worse. I have found the single best cure for any victimhood I've ever had and still have is owning my own participation in it. Seeing what made me dance with the devil, or the rat, as the case may be. I don't know if it works for you, but I always get put back in the position of power, in the driver's seat, when I work with what I can control in my life. Right now, all one of my sisters can control is doing 1 hour runs and riding her bicycle a lot. Job is high level and nuts, life is not in her control. We all do what we can. Love and best wishes to you. --f

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 07:18:01 (GMT) From: PatC Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com To: selene Subject: Don't have your e-mail Selene - neither do I Message:

And I took a look at your mother's day post to see what you meant and I couldn't find a hint of anything except the general melancholy and/or nostalgic stuff that we all contributed to that thread. And nobody replied to anyone's post - well hardly anyone. It seemed to me to more like a thread in memoriam of our mothers than a discussion thread. But the funny thing is, eventhough, I did not feel moved to comment on anyone elses' post, I nearly answered yours because it did seem bluer than the others. Well, I'm sorry you're feeling blue. I was feeling down in the dumps last week but found that it cleared up when my sore back did. This morning when I woke up I had to run to the toilet because my bladder was s o full and I was just wondering how I was going to handle old age incontinence if I was so un-stoical about a sore back. My biggest weakness is not emotions or sad moods but physical comfort - if I am aching or even if I haven't had a good night's sleep, I'm so damn irritable and grumpy. I sure hope old age isn't too uncomfortable or painful. I'm such a sissy. When I lived in a monastery the favorite saying of the Brother Superior was: ''Cheer up! You'll soon be dead.'' God, he had a sadistic sense of humor. I hope I meet you one day and then you will know that my wishes for your health and happiness are sincere.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 16:22:22 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: PatC Subject: e-mail and stuff Message:

I don't publish my email but a lot of ex's have it from when I wasn't so cautious. I have learned security the hard way and it's a reflection on my life since leaving a cult. I was naive in many ways and am not, finally. Thank you everyone. I am very late for work and still in my long T shirt they gave me for participating in destroying our beautiful campus mall to put some awful computing building up or acutally down in a hole. sheesh no wonder I didn't sleep well. I'm feeling much better. I re-read my MDay posts, don't know why I thought everyone could read my mind when I was trying so hard to sound like all was well. I do that when things are too hard to deal with. All your posts are much appreciated. Who is that Professor anyway? some one I work with ? :) ok gotta go thanks thanks thanks.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 22:33:52 (GMT) From: Lesley Email: None To: Selene Subject: Thanks, Selene, for starting this thread Message:

I feel like I just got to hear from some real human beings who are dealing with the same stuff I am. It helps, not just in the supportiveness, but also the fruits that our intelligence can make out of our experiences. love Lesley ps for the record: I am dreading the infirmities of aging, and am trying to get my head out of the sand about it I am trying to fulfil my relationships with both my parents, can't say I am not somewhat fatalistic about the outcome, perhaps I should take up reading Shakespeare! I am still shifting through my feelings re M, the fear, anger and loathing has subsided somewhat, indigestible lumps of resentment still litter my inner landscape, hate like a bright red scar, loved that line, Selene. Am starting to feel pretty comfortable about it now, though, found myself saying last night that I honoured my time as a premie!!!

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 21:52:41 (GMT) From: Zelda Email: None To: Selene Subject: maternal Message:

for someone who is on a computer alot- you sure are in touch with your changes. for what it is worth-- my mom has a superficial cold thing with everyone.- even my father. i have always attributed it to the post war stuff-- most women are in 'contact' shell shock my parenting turned out to be a wierd kind of rebound that was too touchy feely and at the same time missed the mark miserably --so my adult children tell me when we have a good laugh after a stormy cry my mom had a good heart but she gave it to the Church and we kids dangled off the leftovers. I gave mine to M. and my children dangled off the leftovers .but thank god I woke up . my mom never did. ZZZZ

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 22:08:57 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Zelda Subject: maternal Message:

Hi Zelda! I hear you; so good to be awake to live and do the right thing. Our kids need us. remember when maharat said that kids only needed to be fed? What an ignorant moran. Is easy for him to say taht when he has a troop of people to take care of his children, the brat. The children love him because he showers them with cars and stuff, they idolize him, they live a good life and sooner or later what lard is after is their support.. He's doing it. I heard that the kids are more involved which tells me they got themselves a big brainwashing lesson. I can hear him manipulating them, I need you, look what the ex-premies are doing...blablabla....The dirty ass! I really just wanted to say hola, I hardly see you here which is a good sign, you're ok? luv,SB

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 00:00:55 (GMT) From: Zelda Email: naw To: SB Subject: maternal+ Message:

Hi to you too! yup I am good-- do lurk a bit and respond when the shuffle moves me. nice to hear from you.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 01:08:20 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: Zelda Subject: same here Message:

not too much but sometimes it feels right he he he he .... I enjoy it at times(writting my guts out) but now I have to take care of a lot I neglected while being under little god's evil influence so I only come for a while and read some posts. Nice to c u 2 take care, sb

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:50:00 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: sb Subject: same here Message:

Hi Selene, and all. It must have been quite beastly to be born a couple generations ago, seems like I have heard about so many of them having ruinious abused childhoods. At least your mom didnt pass that abuse on. I was talking to a guy today and he is trying to work out his mothers abuse to him and her mom was also a total abuseive mom

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 04:20:42 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: bill Subject: screw up people seek gurus Message:

is right, experiences like that can be hard to work with but if the person REALLY wants to get better today there is so much self-help material and with some therapy a person can get better. I believe in Behavioral Therapy because a person get's better quicker, focussing on the present behavior and feelings and finding reasons for them. Our mothers had no support and many things were taboo to explain; I can imagine what it was like. You are right. BTW,SB and Selene are not the same person. We are two different girls. :)

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Date: Sun, May 20, 2001 at 03:09:27 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: sb Subject: I guess it is a secret how many posts I read of yo Message:

yours and Selenes, I did respond to Selene, but I had read your posts also. SB, I have been in your corner for a long time! You remember my blanket acceptance of you from some time back when you were in a duel. When others found a fault with you I refused to. I read you and saw what you were saying. Still do. :)

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Date: Sun, May 20, 2001 at 05:31:32 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: bill Subject: I guess it is a secret how many posts I read of yo Message:

Thanks Bill, I appreciated it then and now. I wasn't looking for acceptance but wanted to express my understanding, to heal, but some thought I wasn't exagerating. Read free's post, is me. It has been an intense ride. Take care. You have my email ad. :) Inside shines the child saying, free at last. Screw you maharaji.

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 22:29:04 (GMT) From: Mr. Mind Email: None To: Everyone Subject: TM Instructors + Rawatian Instructors=the same ??? Message:

http://www.trancenet.org/personal/kellet.shtml This(the above) will continue this story if you are interested TranceNet: Joe Kellet A Simple, Natural, Relaxation Technique? I'd like to relate a few of my adventures from my years as a TM meditator and teacher. PART I: SOMETHING GOOD IS HAPPENING! At TM introductory lectures no mention is made that there could be any unpleasant experiences associated with TM. True to it's nature as an 'esoteric' teaching (a teaching with many hidden levels of indoctrination), TM keeps the fact of possible negative experiences from the student until he is already past the first level of initiation. Only after initiation, on one of the 'Three Nights After Initiation,'is the concept of 'unstressing' introduced. TM doctrine teaches that all (absolutely all!) personal difficulties and restrictions are caused by 'stress,' which is some 'abnormality' in the 'nervous system.' If we could free ourselves of stress we would be able to experience 'pure consciousness' at all times. That is, we would be in 'Cosmic Consciousness' (CC) and would be blissful and would effortlessly perform 'spontaneous right actions' at all times. Furthermore, these 'right actions' would enjoy the 'support of Nature' and would therefore be successful. This is the 'normal' state of life that would be enjoyed by all people if only the 'stress' weren't in the way. Notice, by the way, that we just said that this 'simple relaxation exercise' is supposed to produce people who are morally perfect, people who will 'perform spontaneous right action' in everything they think or do. Also they will receive 'support' from something called 'Nature.' Yet TMers deny to the public that theirs is in any way a spiritual or religious teaching. This is one example of the fact that TM is an esoteric spiritual system where the full truth is revealed in degrees only as one becomes more deeply indoctrinated. Students are told in the 'Three Nights after Initiation' that a mere 'twenty minutes twice a day' (20x2) of meditation is enough to produce CC. This is a deliberate misrepresentation of actual 'insider' TM doctrine. MMY told us on Teacher Training Course (TTC) that mere 20x2 meditation would not produce CC, but that we should continue telling people that it would. Only long 'rounding' (see below) courses could produce CC, he said, but once we got people doing 20x2 meditation then maybe they would come to longer courses so we weren't really lying. This is an example of TM-style 'spin doctoring' directly from the Master. This is also an example of how people are deceived about TM doctrine even after they are initiated. As a teacher I frequently lied to people 'for their own good' because 'they weren't ready yet' to receive the full truth, and so did my friends who were teachers. We didn't think of it as 'lying.' We thought we were giving the people as much truth as they could handle. We thought it would be wrong to tell them more than they could handle since they might 'misunderstand' and not start or continue with TM, which would be bad for them. We did a lot of 'spin doctoring.' We deceived people by deliberately using words that would be misunderstood by the audience. We said 'TM is not a religion' even though we knew that insider TM doctrine as a whole was incompatible with all major religions (including mainstream Hinduism in large part). But we didn't think of ourselves as 'lying' because we were mentally using a very restrictive definition of 'religion,' using the word to mean something like 'an organization that demands faith in a doctrine.' Even though we were teaching doctrine incompatible with other religions we weren't demanding faith so TM was 'not a religion.' We ignored the fact that people could be and were kicked out of the Movement for openly disputing TM doctrine -- we didn't consider this as 'demanding faith,' rather it was 'protecting the purity of the teaching.' But I digress. TM doctrine declares that the 'deep rest' produced by TM is the answer to this barrier of stress that is keeping us from CC. Stress is only removed by rest. The rest of sleep is supposed to be able to remove casual, surface-level stress. However, the rest of sleep is insufficient to remove the deeper, more serious, more obstreperous stresses 'deep in the nervous system' that are keeping us from being morally perfect, happy, and successful. TM doctrine says that only by experiencing the much deeper rest of TM can these deeper stresses be removed. Since this involves a physical purification of the nervous system there can be physical and emotional experiences associated with this purification ('we all know how emotions are affected by our physical state'). These experiences can be pleasant or unpleasant, but the quality of the experiences is completely irrelevant. The only important thing is that stresses are being removed and we are closer to our goal of CC and even higher states of consciousness (including 'God Consciousness' (GC)!). One is just supposed to ignore the experiences associated with 'unstressing' and 'return to the mantra.' The whole thing sounds very innocuous as presented in the 'Three Nights after Initiation.' What one doesn't hear about on these three nights of post-trance indoctrination (more on this below) is the concept of 'heavy unstressing.' A meditator usually only receives doctrinal instruction regarding heavy unstressing on 'residence courses' where one goes off for several days of peace and quiet plus the opportunity to meditate more than just 20x2. There he may learn that if a major stress is released there can be negative physical and emotional experiences long after the meditation is over. And these major stresses are more likely to be released on a residence course. This is because this is where the 'prolonged deep rest' over a period of days is supposed to produce rest deep enough and prolonged enough to attack those whopper stresses that are really impacting our lives and keeping us from CC. The experience of having these major stresses 'unstressed' can be emotionally and physically very uncomfortable, but we should just keep meditating and should be happy the stress is on the way out. But we should never make important decisions while on a residence course because our decision-making process is clouded by the process of stress release. (Actually, the reason we shouldn't make major decisions is because we are in a trance state so much that we can become dissociated -- more on this below). Note that according to TM doctrine there is no possible excuse for abandoning TM. If you feel great it's because you practice TM and you should therefore continue meditating. If you feel absolutely miserable it's because 'Something good is happening!' (a major TM catch phrase) in that those bad old stresses are being released, you should therefore continue meditating. TM is working its wonders no matter what happens to you in your life! Anyway, this 'heavy unstressing' is something that the Movement doesn't talk about in public, and that MIU doesn't do four-color bar charts on. The experience of 'heavy unstressing' is real and fairly common, regardless of whether you accept TM doctrinal explanations for the cause of it. A significant number of people come home even from weekend residence courses with very uncomfortable negative emotional overcasts, and similar problems can occur even for 20x2 meditators. What is a 'significant number of people'? Enough people so that all TM 'checkers' and teachers are taught how to help people with such problems. On a long course, such as a Teacher Training Course (TTC), heavy unstressing is a major fact of life for many people. My TTC (the 'Mallorca/Fiuggi Fonte Course' circa '72) was infamous for the 'heavy unstressing' that went on. One TTC staffer (for any TM historical buffs this was Billy Clayton who was a 'skin boy,' one of MMY's personal attendants who carried MMY's deerskin and laid for him to sit on) called this the 'General Hospital' TTC because so many people had severe problems. At one point we were 'rounding' for 14 hours a day! A 'round' is a period of meditation followed by a period of yoga postures or 'asanas.' Meditation, asanas, meditation, asanas, etc. etc. etc. for 14 hours a day, day after day. At other points in the course we rounded fewer hours a day which gave us time for hours and hours of indoctrination sessions. This went on for a minimum of three months for everyone, but there were people like me there for six months and even longer doing this. It was very common for people to acquire major tics of large muscle groups, most commonly in the form of very noticeable head jerks. I'm talking about sudden jerks of the head to right or left of about 45 degrees. In addition there were people with major emotional problems. MMY had to establish 'heavy unstressing clinics.' At attempt was made to help unstressors at these clinics by application of physical therapies including body massage and foot massage. Several people were not able to become TM teachers at this course because they were not able to free themselves of the major body tics before it was time to 'receive their mantras.' MMY could not send people back to their communities as official 'Exponents of Reality' when they had been so conspicuously damaged by the TTC experience. One course participant went home and was hospitalized for mental difficulties by his father, a psychiatrist. MMY was quite disturbed by this event (he of course particularly wanted the endorsement of psychiatrists) and he discussed this negative turn of events in an open session. I met another course acquaintance again after I 'graduated' TTC and returned to the LA area, and she was still having very conspicuous and embarrassing major head jerks. I myself managed to overcome my physical tics in time to become a teacher, but I went home in a very strange mental state. (More on this below.) I stayed on for a month after the official TTC ended to witness the taping of the original 'Science of Creative Intelligence' course by MMY. MMY was openly unhappy by the amount of 'heavy unstressing' that had gone on (again, that's how we heard about the psychiatrist's son). His position was that the course selection process had let too many people into the course who 'weren't ready' for the dramatic evolutionary power unleashed by such prolonged meditation. In fact 'heavy unstressing' is never considered to be caused by 'something wrong with TM.' It is considered to be a fact of life which must be faced by anyone who wants to attain the happiness of CC. TMers are told that the answer to unstressing is to ignore it and keep meditating on their regular schedule. If a person stops meditating, according to TM doctrine, the stress is left in an 'unstressing' state and the negative experiences will continue indefinitely. Sometimes a person is advised to reduce their time of meditation, and in extreme cases meditation is temporarily replaced by a body awareness practice called 'feeling the body,' but TM itself cannot be dropped permanently without bad consequences. Supposedly, if a person keeps on as instructed the stress will ultimately be unstressed and the person will be forever free of it. This hope is what keeps people meditating through some excruciating emotional experiences. They can't stop TM no matter how horrible they feel. The worse they feel, and the longer they suffer, the bigger the stress is that they are unstressing, and the more important it is to continue TM and get that stress completely unstressed. According to TM doctrine, there is never a good reason to give up TM -- the worse things get for you the more you need TM. When someone does the unthinkable and gives up TM anyway as a result of heavy unstressing everyone is sorry they stopped. But they feel that (1) the person is better off as result of the evolution they did gain before quitting and the person will be in a better position to march towards CC in their next life and (2) it's just too bad they were too weak to face the unstressing, keep meditating, and overcome the stress in this life. There is never a thought among the hard-core that perhaps TM itself is at fault in some way, or even that TM just wasn't right for that person, or that the person is in fact worse off for having done TM. There is another danger from heavy TM involvement other than from heavy unstressing. So let me start over and tell my story again from a different angle.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 09:54:20 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Mr. Mind Subject: wow thanks. i did TM for a year before K-this fits Message:

i oughta get some more help from these people. i knew all this but that doesnt mean it didnt leave me with lasting damage. i get the whole new age rap about releasing negative patterns in the body and emotions, but the unconscious is unconscious for a damned good reason, folks. and that part about the checkers being trained to help people with heavy unstrssing is bullshit. when i went to them, they did zilch. i don;t know which is worse- the TM checker's frozen smile, and the false serenity, assuring you blandly that all is as it should be, change nothing, just keep doing it.--or rawat's nazi's, browbeating you with holy terror and guilt, that you're in your mind, and that you're too worldly, and that you're imperiling your survival, by courting doubt and daring to question the absolute master, that you need to give much more and listen to him many more hours.! at least MMY is candid with his followers about he thiks about what's happening. Can't ever say that about Rawat. I quit TM cold turkey after a freaky out of body experience no one could explain to me and no one seemed to care happened to me. they both sucked.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 03:51:55 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: Mr. Mind Subject: A very relevant section and thanks ... Message:

'Finally someone was able to successfully help me to question the basic unproven assumption underlying my delusions. This assumption, this belief that had been programmed into me since I first walked into an introductor lecture, was the premise that 'MMY is a great spiritual teacher with the highest teaching on the planet.' After I finally realized that I had absolutely no basis for believing this , and after I further realized that this was ever quite unlikely based on what I had gone through,I was finally able to start recovering. Once I realized that MMY was at best an incompetent spiritual teacher the whole set of delusions based on the indoctrination I'd received, and based on his private 'spiritual counseling,' began to fall like a house of cards. 'One of the people who helped in my recovery was Dr. Margaret Singer at UC Berkeley, one of the world's foremost experts in the study of destructive cults and their use of 'mind control' (or 'thought reform' as it's more commonly called by researchers). She had been studying TM and was quite interested in hearing my TM experiences. She confirmed that a significant percentage of the population (I've read elsewhere that it is 10-15%) are highly susceptible to post-trance indoctrination. That is, such people are likely to have a severely reduced level of critical evaluation about anything that they are told immediately after they come out of a trance state. These people are therefore in particular very susceptible to any spiritual indoctrination received while they are in such a post-trance state.' . I may never have been a premie, but I've seen a lot of friends get sucked into cults. My sister confided to me a few months ago that her husband of over 15 years is a TMer, and that at times it is problematic. I will forward this link to her. Thank you. Anna

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:13:58 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: Stonor Subject: Hi Stonor. NT Message:

nt

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 13:51:59 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: sb Subject: Hi SB! Message:

How's your garden growing this year? :-) Anna

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 19:14:36 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: Stonor Subject: good, but natural Message:

I'm involved in other 'things' and I don't think I will make a darden of flowers this year: No time, but. (You know I love flowers) Lazy, I left my pots with the soil in and now the seeds from last year are sprouding (?) and it will be a surprise to see the flowers. I like plants but I'm not a fanatic: I don't know by their shape what they are at this growing stage, but they look nice and so I left them be. I did buy herbs, they are in pots on the patio. I love to pick them to cook special meals, well, as much as i can. :) Take care.

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Date: Sat, May 19, 2001 at 01:44:17 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: sb Subject: Natural is good! Message:

Sounds wonderful! It's nice to let gardens grow a bit more naturally, and some of the surprises that re-seed can be fun too. I'm not a big fan of formal gardens - too cold and artificial-looking. Have a good weekend SB!

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 23:29:58 (GMT) From: such Email: None To: Stonor Subject: 24hr7d susceptibility 2 cult-trance indoctrination Message:

' She confirmed that a significant percentage of the population (I've read elsewhere that it is 10-15%) are highly susceptible to post-trance indoctrination. That is, such people are likely to have a severely reduced level of critical evaluation about anything that they are told immediately after they come out of a trance state.'

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 23:57:50 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: such Subject: Hi Suchabanana! Message:

Those are interesting stats. Thanks. And some people are much more receptive to hypnosis as well - I'm sure they're related. Do you think it might have something to do with the strength of their sense of 'self'? Annabanana ;-)

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 09:26:27 (GMT) From: Mr. Mind Email: None To: Stonor Subject: A very relevant section and thanks ... Message:

Hi, I hope it does help someone. The more I see about the different cults the more I know 'a cult is a cult'. They all at least subtly lead you to believe they are THE WAY. Some may overtly profess there 'are many roads' but a new member quickly discovers, once on the inside, that they have found the one and only.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 11:54:36 (GMT) From: Bob Email: None To: Mr. Mind Subject: thanks ... Message:

Very interesting! One sentence stuck with me , as this was exactly what happened during satsangs and gatherings: 'The programmability of people coming just out of trance state'. As a premie you could stay in it all day(you had to : ,always remember holy name', 'never delay in attending satsang'). Perhaps this describes something I never understood: Even at 19 , when I got k. , at the time when I was very unstable because of former LSD overdose, I had enough sense to know about science, the probable evolution of the universe etc. How could I ever have seriously considered the apocalyptic rumors about Millennium 73 circulating at the time?

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 20:41:03 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: One more article today in French newspaper/EV Message:

Elan Vital reacts This is too funny ...... What's their next stupid move going to be ? Sue the magazine ?

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 22:08:10 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: for english readers Subject: translation Message:

Following the earlier article from the 9th of May 2001: ELAN VITAL REACTS Following the revelations which we published on Wednesday, the 9th of May, on the activities of the cult Elan Vital, the company Management & Performance, in using their right of response, has given to us a correction, that ' there is strictly no link of any nature (teaching, jursdictional, financial or otherwise) with the Elan Vital movement'. They go on:'Our method refers itself, as it is mentioned on our internet site, to two eminent psychologists--Carl Jung and William Marston.' And points out that, as far as links with Elan Vital, that 'Marc Levitte, he has not been president of that movement since 1998, and Claude Artheix, he has no official functions; they have been two minorities in Management & Performance'. Patrice Fabart concludes that, although they ' have worked for and associated with Management & Performance since April 1997, and done so totally outside of the movement' it would 'not have been tolerated--and it will not be tolerated-the least manifestion of proselytism, and/or confusion, between that movement and our company, internally or externally'. Later that same day, the Winterthur Assurances company, cited in our articles as a user of the services of Management & Performance, wished to clarify the nature of their connection. 'What went on, in reality, was that we wrote to this company, Winterthur Assurances did, wanting to test everyone we had in exploring for a sense of what commercial direction to take in July 1997, for the duration of one day's time, for 12 people. This undertaking was for nothing more than the purpose of finding out if we could make our business reruiting better. We decided not to pursue the results of the excursion, and we have not developed any deep relations with this company'. 'Fom time to time, the directors of human resources and particularly, we here at Winterthur, do not wish to seek quality relations, after having tested the materials furnished.' 'This article by your journalist, without which we would'nt have had the least appreciation of the reality of the facts, allows us to resummon the vigilance necessary, in the face of the abundance of companies there are in France, where the motives of the directors do not appear at all clearly.' 'Following your article, we demanded of Management & Performance not to make a figure of reference to us on their internet site, based on some quasi-inexistence of contractual bonds, between us.' It was acted upon.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 14:42:24 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: janet Subject: to Janet Message:

Janette, Comment avez-vous appris la langue francaise tellement bien? J'ai lue votre 'journey.' Il n'y en avait aucune reference aux etudes apres l'ecole secondaire. En tout cas, merci bien pour vos efforts. -Guilluame (Way)

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 09:35:03 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Way Subject: translated for others and reply 2 u Message:

Comment avez-vous appris la langue francaise How did you learn the language of the french tellement bien? J'ai lue votre 'journey.' Il n'y en so well? I have read your journey. It does avait aucune reference aux etudes apres l'ecole have a single reference to any studies after secondaire. En tout cas, merci bien secondary school. In any case, thank you very much pour vos efforts. for your efforts ------------------------ mon ami- my friend- I began to study the french language in J'avais commencer å étudier la langue française dans the sixth grade, in primary school. It was an la grade siesieme, en l'école premiére. C'était un experimental idea with the young students, and idée éxperimentale avec des jeunes étudients, et I continued it up until my first year at the j'avais la continué jus'qu'å l'année prémiere å the university. I never finished my l'université. Je n'avais jamais pas fini mes studies, because I started the meditation étudies, parce ce que j'avais commencée au meditation called 'TM', and then I lost all appellé «TM», et puis j'avais perdu tout de interest in studying. I left--or, in l'interest en étudiant. J'avais sorti, ou, en english, as we say, 'dropped out' and never went back. anglais, on dit 'dropped out' et jamais retournée. I read jean-paul Sartre in his original words, J'avais lu Jean-Paul Sartre en ses mots originales, and I understood it completely. That was deep-really et je l'avais compris tout! C'était profond, bien incredible to me, that i could do that. incroyable å moi, que je peut le faire! I worked in a restaurant in 1982 where the J'ai travaillée dans un restaurant en 1982 ou les owners came from Russia, the cook came from proprietaires vient de la Russe, la cheffe vient de Montreal, and the watiers came from Czechoslovakia.We Montréal, et les garçons vient de Czéchoslovak. Nous used to speak english, but when we wanted to outwit parlait l'anglais, mais quand nous voudrons éviter le son of the owner, we used to speak in french! He fils du proprietaire, nous parlont en française! Il did not know it, and he didn't understand our ne la connaissait pas, et il n'a compris pas nos conversations! It was very funny! conversations! C'était tres droll! Mais je n'avait pas usée ma française depuis cette année, But I had not used my french since that year. This effort to translate these articles, that Jean-Michel Cet effort å traduire ces articles, que Jean-Michel Kahn has been giving us, is the first time that Kahn avait nous donné, est la premiere fois que I have tried to use my ability like this. j'avait essayée user mon abilité comme ceçi. I hope it will be good enough. J'espere que ça suffit. Correct me, if I make any errors. Corrigez-moi, si je fais d'erreurs. thanks, bro! merci,mon frere.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 14:26:15 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: janet Subject: Accent marks? Message:

Janet, Tell me how you got those French accents in your text, s'il vous plait.

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 22:58:45 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: janet Subject: excellente Janet! Message:

Unfortunately I don't know all the ins and outs of this, but it looks like the article 'outed' a company basically run by EV people. I love this part: And points out that, as far as links with Elan Vital, that 'Marc Levitte, he has not been president of that movement since 1998, and Claude Artheix, he has no official functions; they have been two minorities in Management & Performance'. Not only cult members, but former president of EV France? Ya can run but ya cannot hide. If some cultbusters organzation with funds ever got into doing a good project, it would be to hit cults in the wallet. They could make a guide to all the businesses with cult ties, with a rating system of how direct or indirect the connection was. Then just like that Cruelty Free guide that PETA and other animal rights organizations put out, or like Co-op America's guide to ethical investments, peole who didn't want to partronize cults could avoid them like the plague. But no one would really care, if there weren't exposes like the Combat article, making the cult connection look bad. I mean after all the Sikhs in West LA had Khalsa businesses all over the place, up front, and no one cared. BUT MANIPULATING THE MIND through corporate training (which is what the EVers like to do) is scary indeed to the public. It is one thing to buy a Moonie-owned newspaper, or have a cult-owned gas station. It's another thing to have them MESS WITH YOUR MIND. I think most people would be scared. I believe the Scientologists do some of this corporate training also. A lot of the cults have infiltrated corporations and government using their training techniques. =thanks again= --f

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 08:33:10 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Francesca Subject: That's exactly the point! Big scandal here! Message:

Many cults have that type of facade, and French don't like it AT ALL !!! You may think or believe whatever you want to think or believe in, that's OK here in the land of freedom. BUT having that sort of business AND HIDING YOUR BACKGROUND is not something to do here. If they're so proud of their 'master' and his teachings, to the point they have been so actively involved in m's organizations for decades, WHY HIDING IT ????? Of course Marc Levitte is not EV's president anymore, because he's one of Rawat's personal assistants, in Malibu and traveling with him: can't do both things. And Claude Arheix, former member of EV's board of directors, is now in charge of 'propagation' in France ... I assume one of the reasons he's been fired from EV's board is because he's been using a bit too much EV's network for his business, and too many people knew about it then (thanks to the French forum on EPO).

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 14:47:35 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Oy yoy! Thank goodness for other cultures ... Message:

besides the US. This is really interesting, the French culture and its view on things. I'm sure there's a different spin for every country, and even regional views. Just more traps for the rat. !!! Hallelujia! One size will not fit all. More lies. More disguise. They won't be able to keep this up. ==f

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 22:11:09 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: janet Subject: well now you do! here ya go! Message:

who says business dowesnt have a sense of humor? i find this amusing in the extreme.

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 21:41:51 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Don't know what it says ... Message:

but I can't wait for the translation. I'd love to see them sue the magazine, but they aren't that stupid I suppose. Of course, the truth is always the winning defense to a claim of libel. I'd like to see them prove that any of the substantive statements weren't true. And newspapers and magazines have a LOT of immunity from libel suits, in general. LOL Can't wait till someone translates this. Too funny. Panties in a bunch, knickers in a twist -- what's the French equivalent?? --f

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 06:19:00 (GMT) From: Sam Hardy Email: None To: Francesca Subject: Truth as a defense Message:

Truth is not always a defense in a defamation case - it varies from country to country. In some countries 'public interest' is the recognised defense where someone's reputation has been impugned. Newspapers carry a lot of defamation insurance but it depends on the law of the land, and the confidence of their lawyers, as to how much they throw caution to the wind.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 16:59:02 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Sam Hardy Subject: Precisely the case for France Message:

where the cult's issue is a major issue for the community. The court won't care for Mr Rawat's or EV's reputation, image or whatever, as they are known nuisances - any known and official expert in France will back it up !! They'll be ridiculed in court. And they'll have one more pan tied to their tail .... I'm sure any good lawyer will advise them NOT to sue, but they've already proven how stupid they are .... Wait and see.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 16:35:38 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Sam Hardy Subject: Public interest Message:

Thanks Sam, Didn't realize that aspect was different in some countries, but I'm not surprised. There are some defenses that are a slam dunk. But even in those countries where the truth isn't a slam dunk, it would be hard to believe it wouldn't be a viable defense, even if it wasn't a case winner standing alone. The public interest angle is a good one. I'm sure in France, for exmaple, from what Jean-Michel said about the French people, that public interest in exposing cult secrecy could be seen as a major public interest. -f

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 03:47:10 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Francesca Subject: Don't assume they're not THAT stupid! Message:

It looks like they really are, like for the Jagdeo issue ....... They really think they are in their own right, denying everything 'bad' or 'negative' that's been said about EV, Rawat etc The problem is THEY THINK everybody else is wrong !!!!!! They know The Truth, m can't be associated with anything that happened in and around EV etc. They also maybe think that the best lawyer firm you have (pay) on your side, the better off you are ...... but it's not this way in France (so much for you Yanks!). Having a good lawyer is one thing, but that's not enough for a cult here in France .....

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 05:43:37 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Don't assume they're not THAT stupid! Message:

Some things about the French are cool. Like the way they took on Yahoo. And you are right about Yank law, at least with cults. No one's gotten much of anywhere have they? However, even in the US a good lawyer only goes so far. I remember in the 80s when I worked for a lawyer who was transitioning from piecing together clients to having a real practice. He had one criminal law client left. The client's father was a cabinetmaker and traded a lot of good cabinet work for legal defense. Yet his son kept getting in run-ins with the law. I drew up the papers that sealed his criminal record up to age 16. Well it didn't take but a few months, and as an adult, my boss couldn't 'get him off.' The cabinetmaker never got it. He thought my old boss was a lousy lawyer (LOL, he is one of the tops in the state in his chosen field). I think you're right. They may keep up with this head-in-the-sand thing until something knocks them in the arse. In all its revisions, it is really the same tune. This I would like to see. They can revise, but maybe they can't adapt. Keep up all your good work. Hope to read the entire article in English someday. love, f

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 14:28:53 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Francesca Subject: Pit bulls in France Message:

Yes, sometimes the French are cool. I was amazed that France was able, like some other European countries, to outlaw the breeding of pit bulls. The American ideals of 'civil liberty' would make that type of control impossible in the U.S. We have so much liberty and 'freedom of speech' that the bad guys get away with murder, figuratively and sometimes literally.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 15:57:59 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Way Subject: We also have something about liberty in France Message:

We say that your liberty ends where others' liberty begins. Meaning that there are limits to what you can do, you can't claim to act 'freely' depriving others from their own freedom. Lots to think about .... We tend to think that 'your' idea about liberty is a bit simplistic and childish .... I'm sorry !

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 16:39:31 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: I agree with that completely Message:

When we were dealing with secondhand smoke issues here in California and the smokers were going on about smokers' rights, one of the legislators said, 'My right to swing my arm ends where it hits your face.' You probably look at all the gun control issues here and think we're also out of our minds. --f

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 13:48:35 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Was there darshan in Miami or not? Message:

I spoke with a premie friend who went there and he said that there was no tunnel and no darshan. I feel he is lying to protect himself and Lard. I had a small conversation with the premie before the Miami event and he said he wasn't going, but. Yesterday he called me on the phone and he sounded all happy and full of energy and I assked if he finally decided to go. The answer was yes and he said: 'Now I feel better.' I responded, good, you went and got your drug. He didn't say nothing. He knows now that I come to this forum and he is trying to be sweet and to convince me guru is good. Aughhhh. Poor premie, he is such a nice person. maharaji you are disgusting! You make people look stupid and act like robots!

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 20:13:41 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: sb Subject: no tunnel or foot kissing-2nd voice Message:

i too got a call first thing this morning from a longtime premie friend who went to portland and amaroo and miami. he too told me there was no tunnel and no foot kissing in miami. this was the first time i let him him know of my exing last winter. the call went fairly nicely but toward the end he got antsy and said he had to go. It sounded like i had struck something deep and he was getting ncomfortable. we left it open. I said there was far too much to try to cover in one phone call, but that being on the forum for months, every day, had let me be real and honest about things that had been making me unhappy for years. i told him i didnt originally plan to ex; that i had posted on the GWWL in hopes of finding premies i had lost track of over the years, and that my entry had been made the butt of a parody that forced me to go on the forum and present myself as i really am--and that i was met with fellowship and good natured apology and for the first time in my life i was accepted for my intelligence and welcomed for speaking my mind among premies. i think that hit him. i reminded him of how we had both been pushed to the fringes in denver, ending up homeless and broke in winter , but never letting go of meditation and belief, and not getting the sheer human caring we deserved for it. he said that he got into amaroo for free. i asked about the required 800 dollar 'donation' i heard you had to produce before registration? he said it was the same as its ever been at programs--if you dont have it, they dont care. you get in any way. I said what about the smart cards? don't they block anyone who can't produce one at the gate? he said no, you still get in. if they know you from being around, they just wave you thru. i asked where he stayed for the duration? he said out on the land. I asked 'wasn't it dangerous? the snakes and scorpions and insects biting all the time?' he said no, he did'nt see any of that, it was beautiful. I asked how big the place was. he said huge, much much bigger than he imagined it. the thing he wanted to tell me was how this was the first time in 18 years for him that he had had footkissing darshan from maharaji, and he sounded blown away. he said he had forgotten what it was like. i replied that i felt priced out of the market from everything a long time back, like the whole thing had pretty much just left me in the dust long since, so I'd just let go of the clinging and decided to call it for what it was. he was silent. i told him how i'd hung on by sheer grit for too many years, being insulted by the premies and being repelled by the snotty superiority and not being even acknowledged by people i had knwon and seen and been a fammiliar face to since i was 20 years old. i glanced up at the calendar and remarked that today would have been my 28th knowledge birthday, to the day, and what i was finding on the forum was wwondrous compared to what i suffered at the hands of the premies for all that time. i asked whether he knew that we were taught the techniques in the wrong order. again, bafflement. i elucidated that maharaji never knew the whole practice because shri hans died before he could teach his sons what came next. i explained that bal bhagwan Ji has continued to study and understand his family's religion since he has grown up, but maharaji doesnt know and doesnt care. he has nothing more than a 6 year old's comprehension of what he was shown and he's compeltely unaware of the history and heritage of what went before him. I alluded to the Radhasoami Beas lineage, and how we are descended from Hans's line of the practice. I told him maharaji taught it to us wrong--that there were five more techniques that go with it, but Hans had only shown his little boys part of it before he died. The rest , he was supposed to teach them as they grew up, and could understand it and what it did, but he never got to, so we didnt get the whole story because maharaji never knew. he seemed agape for words. i jumped into the gap and added'we gotta talk about this. its so huge! you have no idea...so why don't you call me when you have the me, and I'll tell you what I've found out? there's just no way to say it all in one phone call!' i feel pretty strange. that makes two premie friends I've dropped the bomb on, now, and its so weird, conveying to them what im ddoing and experiencing. if its supposed to be about 'your EXPERIENCE', then that's what I'm doing. following my experience. and what a relief it is, too. it must be right because i just keep getting saner and clearer. i told him how all my relationships with my family and my friends have turned in a completely new direction since exing. how i am for the first time not fighting with my father, or my sister, or my kids father, out of that snide premie attitude of superiority and hiding a secret they would want if they knew it. i think that also hit him. he was getting nervous and jumpy at this point, and i gently told him to go ahead and not worry about the topic, we could talk later when he had time. 5 hours have passed since i hung up, and i still feel like i only just rang off with him. i feel kind of suspended, like i'm gonna cry but i dont know when.

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Date: Sun, May 20, 2001 at 05:37:52 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: janet Subject: no tunnel or foot kissing-2nd voice Message:

Janet, I read your post and wanted to respond in another way, longer, but time is running short. I got into the top of the page and now I'm dead tired. Good post, as always darling. What is ratashit going to do to stop us? Do the PAMs deserve each other? hahahaha I wish you well, love and peace. sb I posted your post in the Spanish forum, is great!.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 16:13:23 (GMT) From: Bob Email: None To: janet Subject: Inspiring! nt Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 16:10:05 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: janet Subject: YES. YES!!!! Message:

Your post touched me! I send you my love and a big hug. Thanks. I like to 'hear' all that because I'm trying hard to do what is right with my premie friends and I take it to be one more way how that divine law puts infront of us what we need. No need even to put a name to it. I don't have a need for supertition or religions anymore. What I experience is real. There is peace, bliss, etc. It's natural!! ratashit separated us from the rest of humanity. The one who look for tools to better themeselves can find them. Some are young souls and some older. Our duty is with ourselves and if in the process we can reach and help others fine, but the biggest responsability is with OUR world. I need to SAVE myself and take care of my home, family, friends. I agree and noticed the same taht is happening to you in my life. Is great! Real freedom for god's sake! You said: i feel pretty strange. that makes two premie friends I've dropped the bomb on, now, and its so weird, conveying to them what im ddoing and experiencing. if its supposed to be about 'your EXPERIENCE', then that's what I'm doing. following my experience. and what a relief it is, too. it must be right because i just keep getting saner and clearer. Yes!! Life getS better and better WITHOUT RAWASHIT in our backs. Bad times? Of course, but the understanding, the way I see other people have totally changed for the better. What if REALLY all happen for a reason? Divine universal law or something. We humans want out of confussion for what we have learned, and in the same time it's the nature of healthy human being to want to help others, more, the ones that are closer to us. Now,out of the cult we begin to experience life as it really is/was before rat, being ourselves without ratashit's filters. Trust you instinct, intuition. Animals have it and we do too. You are doing a very noble action trying to help a being find true freedom and it's very rewarding, it feels right! There is so much we don't know... Rawatshit's cult is no different than the Catholic Church celebrating death more than life, and we humans want to celebrate life and we can do it only when we are left alone, to learn on our own pace, to discover for ourselves. I saw yesterday the premie I mentioned above. I went to his house to pick something up and the soon I got in he said: 'I am frying', you must leave right away. I needed to use the phone and I look at him with as much beeming love I could feel at that time and asked for it and when he raised his head and saw my face I saw that he noticed in me that light, that shine, that peace I was feeling right then and he didn't have it, and he just came from Miami! He knows I left ratashit and now he is calling me to make conversation./ It may go two ways; maybe he wants to help me go back or maybe he began to be curious how I left and now I am feeling better and better. He heard me a while back when I explained why i had doubts about rat and time has passed, naw I'm better and better. I was very depressed then, suicidal for a while, and now I 'shine'? I put the pieces together and I'm at peace? We'll see waht happens. Let me know if you encounter your premie friend again, I want to know what happened. I don't want to push anything on him, provoque it, he is watching me and I'm the example as saying that people do not need a guru to enjoy themselves, life, etc.(his son reads this forum-He never received K and he doesn't want to either! We're free. WE WON RATASHIT! LA LA LA LA LA LOVE,:) SB

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 22:37:39 (GMT) From: kev Email: None To: janet Subject: phone calls with premies Message:

Hi Janet, Your post touched me. I too, have had similar conversations with premie friends. One of the hardest things I have found to except since I have become an ex is how my premie friend react to me now. I have also found it difficult to come to terms with how these same people whom I have know for year still carry on following a man they call the Perfect Master yet they know him to be a lot less than perfect. I have a very dear premie friend, she is a smart and intelligent woman and has even read EPO but still carries on being part of m's cult. She now even refuses to talk about m with me. She says she does not wish to intellectualize her experience of M&K. Mind is bad Heart is good Well Just like you I have found that since I have freed my mind, my experience of life is a lot more whole and clearer now. So here's to all our premies friends everywhere, I hope one day you can join us and the world can live as one. (now where have I here that before?) Hope thing work out ok with your friend, Love, Kev.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 17:58:01 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: kev Subject: funny Message:

Note how by 'coincidence' both of us began our posts with the same phrase. Funny. you said: I have a very dear premie friend, she is a smart and intelligent woman and has even read EPO but still carries on being part of m's cult. She now even refuses to talk about m with me. She says she does not wish to intellectualize her experience of M&K. A premie friend said the exact same thing and out of me came: 'Because you don't want to hear it doesn't mean that what maharaji says is right.' Deep inside premies know something is not right but continue needing the master because they were instructed to do so; if you believe that without the grace of the master K is nothing how in the hell can you think in leaving? They need some more suffering. Lets hope that some day they begin to doubt because as you know, only then we can see who rat is and that is just another cult. SB

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 18:49:56 (GMT) From: Suzanne Email: None To: SB Subject: Similar Experience Message:

I have a dear friend who is a premie. I really care about her, but now that I am no longer a premie, she is almost afraid of me. It is so strange. I keep telling her that I'm still me, I haven't changed -- I'm still the same person she always knew and I'm just recognizing the reality that knowledge never worked for me. But her life is a complete mess. She takes several kinds of drugs to help her deal with depression and anxiety. She is constantly trying to clean and purify herself through her diet, and yet she is sick all the time. She spends money going to see m that she doesn't have. Her kids think she's nuts. It's almost like her life is such a mess that she holds on to m for fear that it would be even worse. I don't know what to say to her. All I can do is try to be her friend and let her know I'm here for her. It's very sad, really, because I think being a premie just makes her life so much worse. It adds pressure to 'practice,' it costs her money she doesn't have, and she's holding on to something that is no help at all.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 21:55:21 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Suzanne Subject: Why if K works there are so many sick premies? Message:

You just described me as a premie and reading your post, i haven't see you at this forum before, I realize how many like me, like your friend tehre are. Disgusting. Laws need to change, don't you think? The mental manipulation a guru does to his follwoers need to become illegal all over the world. Religious and false beliefs is what makes people sick. I wouldn't tell her that K doesn't work but that the way maharachi teaches it is bad, because that is what it's, to me, today. The way I explained to my premie friend is that I don't need intermediaries to get myself in touch of myself!!! There is a misterious energy of which we all are a part of and yes, it's an individual, personal experience, but mariachi is NOT the giver of it, it just is, and I felt it way before meeting him. The best thing to do is to show yourself well so she can see that there are no rotten vegetables waiting for somebody leaving but real freedom. I know many premies that are sick, some very sick, and what makes them sick is Maharaji; the guy cannot make up his mind in what to believe and continously is changing ideas in people's head and is taking a toll on him as well as with his followers. Be there for her and love her as much as you can, with moderation and good judgement? A little effort to tell my friend something seems to work best than talking for hours. my love to you, S

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 01:05:13 (GMT) From: Bob Email: None To: SB Subject: Why if K works there are so many sick premies? Message:

Is it just m.? Many years ago I read an intervieuw with the Dalai Lama about meditation. I only remember his warning to people from the west not to try to meditate longer than your concntration can hold. If you go over it, he said, your brain will develop a habit of tuning out, or falling asleep. If you ever want to do meditation again, later, this habit is almost impossible to break! A picture of a premie slumped over a beragon comes to mind... He was so right! Thanks maharajji, for teaching us faulty meditation habits Even that he couldn't do right!

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:11:24 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: Bob Subject: haahhahahaha Message:

I'm meditating, not every day and it's beneficial and is not at all as m teaches the techniques. Is all about relaxation. Gurus? Yuck!

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:47:21 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: sb Subject: Mahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahahahaharaji Message:

Me too. I meditate for relaxation and mental health and, as you said in another post, you don't talk about your experience because it is too personal. It is stupid to do it as a religion or a burden or a duty but only when you want to. It is also stupid to have religious concepts like GOD or Master about meditation. You really were on a roll yesterday and I agreed with everything you said. I must be going through a similar state of mind to you. Also he taught the techniques backwards. I am laughing more and more everyday since I cut my ties to Guru Strangelove.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 13:06:11 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: PatC Subject: Mahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahhahahahaharaji Message:

Alright!!! We won!! He ended up with a bunch of possesions and lost in his dilussion; no wonder he needs to drink. Can you imagine his dirty conscience? No. I still don't feel too much compassion for him. I feel great Pat. I would love to email you, but I do not want my address here. u have one? Enjoy the endless REAL love that sustain every thing it exists. That is real AND FUN!!! I AM DIVINE AFTER ALL. LOL. Did you watch the movie a while back The Trumman Show? Maybe we are the joke of the galaxy, the comedians. ahahahahhahahahha M is Trumman. I have been laughing so, so much the last days. Something got clean/healed in my head. I feel so, so free. I hardly meditate: No need to do it all the time. Life is too short. hahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha send you you know what

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 18:30:33 (GMT) From: PatC Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com To: sb Subject: The Truman Show was brilliant Message:

and here's my email, oh laughing Buddha.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 19:25:30 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: PatC Subject: Check your mail. NT Message:

hahahahahahahahhaha...........

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 19:28:25 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: SB Subject: Check your mail. I will. NT Message:

j

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 19:07:10 (GMT) From: poet Email: None To: PatC Subject: The Truman Show was brilliant Message:

Oh laughing Pat C, SB, everyone. Good. I'll send you mine and we can talk more about how perfect all is because is not perfect. I feel like Pooh. Just be. No grace involved, We just advanced and understood, the essense is real, The God is dead,still in boyhood. Started with us and left alone He still longs to find himself Am I god in my life, or their God,he says, Poor boy, he can't find his Self ALONE. The poor little boy never grew there he is lost on its own,crying beggin for love colored as money, but most of the time is the goddam brew, that rocks'em, he is a confused poney. He is no horse, no Ceantaurus, He can't aim, shit from real gold... he may be a Sagitarious, but stupidly he pointed the arrow wrong: He committed self-emotional suicidal. And now we're free by the truth, that yes, was inside all along. He didn't wake up, open nothing, he closed it and now is open: we ARE again. :) for u

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 19:21:16 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: poet Subject: Thanks for your poem Message:

I will keep it.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 19:27:18 (GMT) From: thanks Email: None To: PatC Subject: poem Message:

I'm no poet, it just came out. :) hahahahahahahhahahahaha I WON!!!!!

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 14:01:25 (GMT) From: Bazza Email: None To: sb Subject: Not Message:

You're friend isn't lying, there was no tunnel. However if you are 'old school' then just being in front of maraji is considered darshan, so seeing as I was on the second row, technically I did have darshan I guess;)

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 17:58:03 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Bazza Subject: I thought darshan was a Hindu concept? Message:

... and doesn't he claim to have thrown Hindu concepts (didn't he call them 'baggage') out the window? Sounds like a case of having one's korma and eating it.

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 21:03:22 (GMT) From: Lurker #27 Email: None To: cq Subject: Darshan a Hindu concept? Tell that to Santa! Message:

;asdklfj

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 22:10:17 (GMT) From: creativejani Email: None To: everyone Subject: Darshan ... mmmmm Message:

In case anyone here is really missing that divine experience of darshan ( as I am) there is an Indian woman in Germany called Mother Meera - I have heard some good things from people who go to see her regularly. She gives you one-to-one attention, straightens out knots in your energy field (or something) and helps you to relax. She says her work is to bring the light down to people, and doesn't hold with gurus. Sounds interesting - she has a website and it's all very well organised. She lives in a little town and people see her in her house! A bit more reliable than M who suddenly decides not to let his premies anywhere near him!

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Date: Sat, May 19, 2001 at 00:47:19 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: creativejani Subject: Darshan ... mmmmm Message:

Mother Meera's darshan didn't do much for an ex boss of mine who was also one of her top guys in Italy . (6 yrs ago) A repellent little closed down guy with a totalitarian attitude to his staff , he very occasionally sported a m meera badge smaller than our own lotu badges C 1973 , but otherwise the same. Yooo hoooo Robert Hunter I don't suppose you'll ever read this , but if you do ..... remember why you called the Carabinieri ? My old friend USMC retd. is still on your case.

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 08:38:24 (GMT) From: Rumours Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Maharaji is writing his biography-with help Message:

A team of EV writers, led by fortune-teller astrologer Jonathan Cainer met with Maharaji at Amaroo. They are helping M. with his offical biography!

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 04:12:19 (GMT) From: Advisor Email: None To: Rumours Subject: Don't buy it. Less money for rat NT Message:

nop

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 01:56:56 (GMT) From: Gary Epton Email: None To: Rumours Subject: Mein Kamph Message:

Spin city ladies and gentlemen. If maha really is working on his autobiography this could be his supreme effort to spin, contextualize, and otherwise launder and sanitize the naughty bits that EPO has brought to light of day. I mean everyone is hearing about this shit now, so any PR person worth their salt knows that what you must do is 'fess up but minimize it's significance by framing it within the 'bigger picture'. M's 'Upanishads' would be a blatant and morally bankrupt attempt to engender some kind of sympathy and understanding while blowing his own horn.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 22:19:57 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Rumours Subject: Now he really want humanity Message:

He wants to 'enchant' the world with his writting? Some people don't know when to quit: Too much ego. Common guys, we must do something, some noice? If this is true I find it outrageous! What a man. We 'should' email our congressman, senators, everybody, anybody using the net giving our opinion about this man. MAHARAJI IS THE LOWEST ENTITY IN THIS PLANET!

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 21:32:49 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Rumours Subject: M's biorgraphy has ALREADY been published. Message:

It's called 'Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?' Wonder if the new book will be anything like the old one.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 13:39:37 (GMT) From: Lurker #27 Email: None To: Joe Subject: M's biography has ALREADY been published - here! Message:

agf

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 22:35:52 (GMT) From: TD Email: None To: Rumours Subject: Maharaji said he would NEVER WRITE A BOOK! Message:

Remember, in numerous satsangs, he always said he would never write a book. However, if he did it would only have the following words: 'That you are looking for, is within you'. How the tide has turned. What a bag o' shite he is. I reckon now he's looking for every possible way of squeezing the last pennies out of the premies - he knows the ship is sinking.... probably seen that it hasn't hurt Osho and Maharishi and that lot who've churned out some books... steady money earner.

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 16:36:30 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Rumours Subject: Prediction Message:

This will be some, very thin indeed, volume with a lot of blank space, and pictures of clouds. It will be heavily censored, and it will not be PUBLISHED, it will just be printed off like all the other EV meaningless pulp, and pawned off on the PWKs and the aspirants as another way to make money. All PWKs will, of course, purchase this crap to show they are devoted, or rather that they have 'that understanding.' M's biography would never withstand a commercial publication because almost no one is interested. It would also then be open to media investigation and criticism and that's the last thing Maharaji wants, being that the is a blantant liar about his past.

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 17:22:09 (GMT) From: donner Email: None To: Joe Subject: Prediction Message:

excellent and right on prediciton.

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 17:53:01 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: donner and all Subject: The bet's on - how much do you think he'll charge? Message:

... as purchase price? $20 perhaps? £100? free? My guess is ... (hmmmmmm, inspiration ... Laxmi tell me now...) ... $249.99 and $1249.99 for autographed copies. Any more takers?

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 20:24:27 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: cq Subject: think he'll charge 29 for softa, 50 for hardcover Message:

1000 for autographed impersonally. for a major donation gift he'll write personal memories just to you in his own hand on the overleaves, talking about specifc incidents he connects you to, with him. 'The more cash, the longer the autograph.'

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 21:49:16 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: janet Subject: God in a Bod Writing Biography???!!! Message:

Gawd, the first things I thought of when I read this thread title were 1) will it be published only by EV; and 2) How much will it cost? Well, if someone has to ''help'' him write it, that proves he can't write a clear thought. I thought he was sooooo brilliant!! I guess he couldn't find a computer program to obey his agya and write a book. He'd never expose himself to public scrutiny because we'd have a field day with him. I could see him making the media circuit on the Today Show, Good Morning America, Jay Leno, David Letterman, all the really big shows. What a coward! What an idiot! Cynthia

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 13:49:42 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Rumours Subject: Maybe he wants my testimonial Message:

I can tell what happened to me when I merged with the infinite, him: I went nuts!

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 20:43:23 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: SB Subject: Maybe he wants my testimonial--mine too! Message:

That was funny, SB!

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:18:03 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: Helen Subject: Maybe he wants my testimonial--mine too! Message:

oh we 'pure' innocent 'buying everything' souls. I'm glad you got a laugh from it. I want to find your phone number and call you one of these days. Say hi to your family for me, specially to your daughter.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 00:52:38 (GMT) From: Joy Email: None To: Helen Subject: What about the testimonials of the blondes? Message:

I wonder if he'll have a section in there where he talks about the man he ran over and killed in India and then fled the scene leaving someone else to take the rap. Or testimonials from the many women he calculatedly seduced and then discarded like used tissues? Any comprehensive autobiography should include these, surely. What a pig he is. This is too rich coming from someone who brags how they never read books and tries to humiliate those who do. Anything to make a buck.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 00:27:30 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Joy Subject: What about the testimonials of the blondes? Message:

Yes, M's autobiography will be a real propaganda job. I just can't wait to read it! Well, I guess if God is a borderline personality (which I sometimes wonder from reading the Old Testament), then M is surely made in His image!!!!

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 12:16:01 (GMT) From: Bob Email: None To: Joy Subject: What about the testimonials of the blondes? Message:

I am relatively new to the site. Is there any reference known of one of these blondes testifying about this? Is it (relatively) credible? This would be a great thing to have on EPO, could always be referred to....

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 15:46:30 (GMT) From: Joy Email: None To: Bob Subject: What about the testimonials of the blondes? Message:

Not as far as I know. For some strange reason, they're all mum. If you want to hear what Michael Dettmers (about as credible a witness as possible) has to say, at the front page of this site there's a place to click where you can access all his posts about M's seduction of women other than his wife, and all the other revelations about M's sordid lifestyle. You know, I always used to have a modicum of respect for M, in that whatever else he did that was outrageous, at least he seemed a devoted family man and faithful to his wife. These revelations blew that one to bits completely.

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 09:03:10 (GMT) From: Is that the Email: None To: Rumours Subject: Jonathan Cainer who worked for the Daily Mail Message:

and then suddenly went to work for the daily Express just before they were about to publish an exposee about maharaji? Is that also the Jonathan Cainer who said he's got nothing to do with Elan Vital? Is that also the Jonathan Cainer who had all record of himself removed from 'Enjoying Life'?

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 09:02:08 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Rumours Subject: tht would be 'autobiography' if he writes it. Message:

pepople usually do this when they feel their life is over. does this mean the big G realizes his glory days are clearly in the past, now? Has the blazing conflagration died into warm embers, buried under ashes? after the autobiography, the memoirs. how funny. I have been toying for a decade now with writing a book of my own and titling it 'Cancel My Subscription To The Resuerrection'™©. its getting closerall the time. this just stokes it further.

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 12:04:06 (GMT) From: Nige Email: None To: janet Subject: File under 'Fiction' or 'Fantasy' ... Message:

then wait for the 'unauthorised' bio...

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 12:13:11 (GMT) From: Jethro Email: None To: Nige Subject: I wonder whowould buy such a book NT Message:

NT

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 07:39:18 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Jethro Subject: I wonder who would buy such a book - exes would Message:

And we'd have a field day ripping it to shreds, laughing at the bare-faced lies, chortling over the man's stupidity and hubris.

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Date: Fri, May 18, 2001 at 03:29:58 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: PatC Subject: the many family and friends and many ex-p Message:

EV at work. The PAMs are getting creative; uh! That can brings few more bucks. Few bucks here few bucks there his fortune keeps growing. And the pompous ass feels he has accomplished something. He is reclusive, afraid and paranoid. What a way to live. God needs security? How stupid. I believe every action brings a reaction. What would he get? He got it already!!! He is so inmensely ignorant. He is retarded. He is mean. He is uncaring. He is bossy. He is unloving. Yuck! I almost vomit. just kidding. hahahaha This forum is going to explode when that happens. I can't wait for it to be published. He'll make some money but is going to backfire on him. You'll see. The truth will make you free and free finally we're, and so many more will be. We are killing the rat/illussion. Good 'service'. :)

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 08:09:19 (GMT) From: Jethro Email: None To: PatC Subject: Ok but I suggest that we only Message:

get one copy and them put it online. I really don't think anyone but premies would be interested. I agree with Joe's take.

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Date: Thurs, May 17, 2001 at 17:06:14 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Jethro Subject: damn right, Jethro - I won't buy one NT Message:

j

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 16:08:40 (GMT) From: Salam Email: None To: Jethro Subject: Well Message:

Very recently, Saddam Hussain wrote a story and sold 500,000 copies. He made 750,000,000 dinars. The rumors are every government employee had to buy a copy. Also if you had to do anything with the government, from birth to death certificates (which is more prominent) you had to buy a copy or you want be officially dead. So maybe guguji is thinking on the same line? What d'ya recon?

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 20:27:10 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Salam Subject: lets get started on the unuathorized version. Message:

its manifest destiny, now.

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Date: Wed, May 16, 2001 at 19:36:36 (GMT) From: Jethro Email: None To: Salam Subject: So how many premies has he got? NT Message:

NT

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