Deserves -:- to be said: ELAN VITAL CHEATS -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 06:14:13 (GMT)

__ Gordon Showcase -:- What's the problem? -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 11:55:20 (GMT)

__ JHB -:- Probably worse than that -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 10:05:21 (GMT)

__ __ G -:- You're probably right. -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 17:13:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ Joe -:- Miami Beach in July - and fundraising -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 17:50:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Joe, a tidbit about current fundraising... -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 23:35:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Plus, some simple math on all that stuff... -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 23:42:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Who ARE these people? -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 17:14:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Who ARE these people? Well, David Coyne.... -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:16:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Who ARE these people? Well, David Coyne.... -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 21:55:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- I know, it's weird, so MUCH money.... -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 03:56:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Trust fund premies -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 17:38:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Miami Beach in July-I sweat just thinking about it -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 20:32:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Good point Cynthia -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 21:31:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- I like your invisible ''drips'' analogy, Fran -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 03:27:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Separated at birth, what did I tellya -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 05:20:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ G -:- That's why he likes sea gulls. -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 20:52:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Miami Beach has become quite trendy -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 20:47:50 (GMT)

SloeBurn -:- What is Amaroo all about? -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 17:45:35 (GMT)

__ Scott T. -:- What is Amaroo all about? -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 13:02:57 (GMT)

__ janet -:- What is Amaroo all about?-it goes like this -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 11:55:42 (GMT)

__ salam -:- Amaroo.suck -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:37:12 (GMT)

__ Lesley -:- What is Amaroo all about? -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 19:51:01 (GMT)

__ __ Nigel -:- Why isn't Ipswich on my map? -:- Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 14:41:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ Lesley -:- Why isn't Ipswich on my map? -:- Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 21:01:30 (GMT)

__ __ SloeBurn -:- What is Amaroo all about? -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 13:20:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ Lesley -:- Going through the wringer -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 19:25:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ SloeBurn -:- Going through the wringer -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 20:48:10 (GMT)

__ __ sivan -:- japanese tourists -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 09:35:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ Lesley -:- japanese tourists, active bunch, weren't they -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 19:44:06 (GMT)

__ __ Bin Liner -:- To my mind , now that I no longer see Rawat as... -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 23:16:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ PatC -:- ''...keeping up with the Joneses!'' Nice one, Bin -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 23:30:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Does the Rat have a residence at Amaroo? n/t -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 15:28:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Lesley -:- Lord, no, he camps -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 20:46:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- ^^Cynthia, that's a really dumb question!^^^^^^n/t -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 20:20:09 (GMT)

Bryn -:- Does Prem Pal really COLLECT wrist watches? -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 13:05:01 (GMT)

__ G -:- 'It's a bad habit' - Prem Pal -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 17:06:29 (GMT)

__ __ Jerry -:- A question for premies -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 21:57:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ Bob -:- A question for premies-answer from an ex -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:14:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Bob -:- Krishna -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:56:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ SB -:- Only K is perfect, you silly -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 02:15:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ PatC -:- Your English is excellent and post tres bien NT -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:19:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Your English is excellent and post tres bien NT -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:36:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Well, I'm glad you like my mind. So do I :)) -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 08:05:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ G -:- An excellent post. -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:15:12 (GMT)

__ __ Joy -:- 'It's a bad habit' - Prem Pal -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 18:39:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ G -:- That's a good question. -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 21:00:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ janet -:- his own country? his own island? -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 12:16:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Bryn -:- Thanks G. The rich are wierd, -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 10:55:50 (GMT)

__ Dermot -:- It's his antidote to the timeless experience (nt) -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 13:51:50 (GMT)

Sunday Comics: -:- DIVINE TCHOTCHKES -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 09:05:30 (GMT)

__ Elan Vital -:- Visions International -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 19:34:01 (GMT)

__ Francesca -:- Luv, this sh*t is ONLINe -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 05:57:03 (GMT)

__ __ Chuck Sprague -:- Holy Krishna! ''EiYdhIwNaY''... -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 09:04:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ Francesca -:- A whim a way, a whim away -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 17:52:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ Mr. Mind -:- ''EiYdhIwNaY''... and disclaimer # 2 -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 10:36:23 (GMT)

__ __ Thelma the Church Lady -:- DIVINE TCHOTCHKES ONLINE! Where's my VISA? -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 08:43:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ G -:- little portable arti tray -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 17:50:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ sb -:- Thelma PAID 800 FOR HIS PICTURE!!! (nt) -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:26:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ Gary -:- HILARIOUS! (nt) -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 14:50:22 (GMT)

__ __ SB -:- too much -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 06:09:01 (GMT)

__ __ Francesca -:- note the 525 dollar watch ... yeah right n/t -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 06:05:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ janet -:- the 525 dollar watch? in long beach i was standin -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 12:34:05 (GMT)

__ bill -:- This bric a brac probably was a big drip for many -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 23:53:52 (GMT)

__ Chuck Sprague -:- DIVINE TCHOTCHKES and price gouging... -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 21:11:38 (GMT)

__ __ la-ex -:- divine spoon collection+high priced hotels... -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:06:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ G -:- EV tacked on 20/night to his bill. -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:23:34 (GMT)

__ __ G -:- the watch patent -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 00:23:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ Richard -:- Rives McDow invented the watch (nt) -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 02:07:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ G -:- Did Rawat have any input? -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:38:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Did Rawat have any input? -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:54:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- That sounds like minimal input. -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 04:12:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Hari Krishna -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 05:18:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- His drawing looks like a young child's... -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 16:23:23 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Maharaji Ain't No Artist! -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 20:46:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Hey Rawat, I can draw better than you. HA HA HA -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 21:35:22 (GMT)

__ Joy -:- Enhancing My Spoon Collection -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 18:32:02 (GMT)

__ Tim G -:- DIVINE TCHOTCHKES -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 10:12:42 (GMT)

__ __ JHB -:- My Confession -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 22:26:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ Richard -:- John, maybe you could sell them on EV-Bay (nt :) -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 14:28:51 (GMT)

__ __ Selene -:- both men and women will enjoy -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 23:16:33 (GMT)

__ __ Mercedes -:- DIVINE TCHOTCHKES -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 15:02:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ Cynthia -:- DIVINE BRICK-O-BRACK...How Tacky! -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 15:19:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Richard -:- The designer of the various logos are none other -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 21:18:52 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Richard, Is that what he says, or is it true? -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 21:39:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ PatC -:- Been there, done that, got the tee shirt, Cynthia -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 23:26:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Mercedes -:- guilty... -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 22:53:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- me too ... -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 00:11:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- 80??? -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 02:30:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- 600?????????????? -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:34:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- 600?????????????? YES -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:43:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- That's it--I'm starting my own religion! -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 15:11:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- If it wasn't so obvious Lard would make his figuri -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 16:30:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Secret shame -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 04:04:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ sb -:- Sorry, yes. That's what I meant to say. :) NT -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 16:32:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- SB and G, you slay me! LOL thanks, needed it n/t -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 06:18:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ Tim G -:- Slainte! nt -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 15:06:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Mercedes -:- Slainte! ot -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 22:47:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Tim G -:- Slainte! ot -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 23:53:04 (GMT)

Nigel -:- The millennial Master’s amorphous aphorisms -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 01:18:30 (GMT)

__ such -:- Thank godness 2 Good Samaritans. Hope you r ok!(nt -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 06:24:44 (GMT)

__ Mercedes -:- really glad you are okay, thanks. NT -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 02:33:53 (GMT)

__ PatC -:- juicy post as usual. Hope you are being nursed -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 23:45:43 (GMT)

__ __ Nigel -:- Hmm, well actually.... no comment. (nt ;) -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 00:59:48 (GMT)

__ Kev -:- Good post -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 13:54:30 (GMT)

__ __ Nigel -:- 'Saints' as in Soton FC. It happened in Liverpool -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 22:16:15 (GMT)

__ Tim G -:- Hi Nigel -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 08:36:23 (GMT)

__ __ Nigel -:- Thanks Tony/Cynth/Fran/Oafie...Hi Tim! (ot) -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 22:07:25 (GMT)

__ Loaf -:- **BEST*BEST** ! (I am very glad you is ok Nigel)NT -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 03:56:57 (GMT)

__ __ Francesca -:- **BEST*BEST** Ditto -- glad yer OK! n/t -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 04:41:08 (GMT)

__ Tony -:- Excellent post nigel.This raises lots -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 01:54:41 (GMT)

__ __ Bob -:- Happiness is not a consequence -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 12:25:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ Nigel -:- Very succinctly put, Bob... -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 20:00:20 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Bob -:- Bobby?... -:- Wed, May 09, 2001 at 13:59:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ Cynthia -:- Hi Nigel, Great Post/Glad you are okay!!n/t -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 15:28:55 (GMT)

Cynthia -:- EV's FAQs--Is it or isn't it a RELIGION??? -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 17:49:03 (GMT)

__ cq -:- The IRS think it IS a religion...why not ask them? -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 17:07:01 (GMT)

__ __ Cynthia -:- I will ask them... -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:00:04 (GMT)

__ Francesca -:- re my 'confession' thread below -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 06:13:43 (GMT)

__ donner -:- EV's FAQs--Is it or isn't it a RELIGION??? -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 23:48:29 (GMT)

__ __ Cynthia -:- Religions, Charities.... -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 15:04:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ Francesca -:- The nonprofit thing is a sore spot -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 00:57:31 (GMT)

__ Gregg -:- great point, C. -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 22:53:14 (GMT)

__ __ donner -:- great point, C. -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 23:50:40 (GMT)

la-ex -:- The two basic purposes of cults.... -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 03:05:38 (GMT)

__ Mr. Mind -:- The two basic purposes of cults.... -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 08:22:48 (GMT)

SloeBurn -:- Golden Toilets? -:- Fri, May 04, 2001 at 20:24:22 (GMT)

__ la-ex -:- a few observations on charismatic cult leaders... -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 02:58:58 (GMT)

__ __ Mercedes -:- a few observations on charismatic cult leaders... -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 15:21:33 (GMT)

__ Joy -:- Yes, It's For Real--Golden Toilets and Then Some -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 02:46:02 (GMT)

__ __ Richard -:- Joy, attention to detail -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 03:19:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ Joe -:- Attention to detail -- but missing the point -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 10:50:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Denial aint just a river in Egypt....nt -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 21:24:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ G -:- It's like trying to spit shine shit. -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 16:37:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- ***BEST OF*** Forum - G's analysis spot on -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 18:06:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- STENCH: Something's stinking in L.A. - Jiva (nt) -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 20:32:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Richard -:- Attention to detail -- but missing the point -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 16:25:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- getting invitations a day or two after the event -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 18:36:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Rush, Rush, Stop, Stop, Change, Change.... -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 16:17:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- great post, Cynthia - especially liked this:.. -:- Tues, May 08, 2001 at 16:18:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Richard -:- Rush, Rush, Stop, Stop, Change, Change.... -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 21:04:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Yes, yes, a 'simon-sez' religion -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 18:50:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Ship Ahoy! -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 21:33:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Ship Ahoy! -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 02:40:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Yes, if DECCA slaves are lurking -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 23:56:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Did you two know- -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 07:54:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- I didn't know them but -:- Mon, May 07, 2001 at 01:01:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Did you two know- -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 15:35:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ G -:- A strange dance, eh? -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 17:03:58 (GMT)

__ Jerry -:- Golden Toilets? -:- Fri, May 04, 2001 at 21:08:31 (GMT)

__ __ Mr Bubblehead -:- Golden Twats -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 01:40:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ gerry -:- Golden showers? -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 01:51:32 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Mr B -:- Golden showers? -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 06:24:16 (GMT)

__ __ Cynthia -:- Golden Toilets--Yes, it's true... -:- Fri, May 04, 2001 at 23:43:09 (GMT)

cq -:- 'Maharaji's words vary and his message evolves' -:- Fri, May 04, 2001 at 19:44:42 (GMT)

__ SB -:- Good observations! -:- Fri, May 04, 2001 at 21:29:32 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Upcoming events in Europe -:- Fri, May 04, 2001 at 09:32:35 (GMT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- and more gossip ! -:- Sat, May 05, 2001 at 08:57:19 (GMT)

__ __ Tonette -:- he needs money -:- Sun, May 06, 2001 at 08:04:01 (GMT)

__ Bob -:- Upcoming events in Europe -:- Fri, May 04, 2001 at 12:53:27 (GMT)

__ __ Mr. Mind -:- A re-occurring pattern of behavior -:- Fri, May 04, 2001 at 22:19:35 (GMT)

Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 06:14:13 (GMT) From: Deserves Email: None To: Everyone Subject: to be said: ELAN VITAL CHEATS Message:

its members! Post brought from bellow: Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 20:06:31 From: la-ex Email: None To: Chuck Sprague Subject: divine spoon collection+high priced hotels... Message: Thanks Chuck, my spoon collection was getting a bit thin, and I really didn't know when I would be able to pick up a pair of divine spoons...thanks again, I feel so complete now... about hotels...a friend of mine went to australia a few years ago and stayed off site at an EV sponsored hotel. EV had played up the fact that when he paid beforehand through EV, he would automatically save himself the distasteful task of having to 'check out' of the hotel at the end of the festival. This was billed as one of their many thoughtful favors to the premies. My friend forgot that he didn't have to check out, so he went to the front desk to check out and they said it had already been prepaid by EV. Because he wanted a receipt, he asked them for the current rate, and he found out that EV had tacked on another $20/night to his bill....quite a service.... I feel like vomiting. SB

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 11:55:20 (GMT) From: Gordon Showcase Email: None To: Deserves Subject: What's the problem? Message:

That was Elan Vital's agency fee. What's the problem with that? Any business has got to make a profit and in the God business, there's good profits to be made if you're smart. The God business ranks along with porn as one of the best legal ways to fleece the masses of their extra cash. It's all just payment for services rendered. That's capitalism and nothing to be ashamed of. Or are you people here all Commies?

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 10:05:21 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Probably worse than that Message:

That 20$ was on the hotel's daily rate at the time. Elan Vital almost certainly would have negotiated a lower price for the bulk booking, so their markup would have been at least double per night. Nice business if you can con enough people for long enough. John the happy that not a santim of my money goes to the fat bastard.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 17:13:47 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: JHB Subject: You're probably right. Message:

I found that I could get better hotel prices if I didn't use an Elan Vital related travel agency. It should have been the other way around. Also, as Joe has pointed out, they probably get convention centers etc. dirt cheap in exchange for all the hotel income generated.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 17:50:11 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: G Subject: Miami Beach in July - and fundraising Message:

Who has a convention in Miami Beach in July? It's sweltering, and so Miami Beach used to give DLM the Miami Beach Convention Center for FREE just to generate tourist dollars from the premies for the community, and taxes for the city, through sales tax and hotel taxes. DLM did have to pay for the air conditioning, which wasn't cheap, but the truth is, they made lots of cash off those programs, not even counting the hundreds of thousands Maharaji raised in the darshan lines. ? The thing about Elan Vital and Maharaji is they don't really have anything they are selling. They have no 'cost of goods sold.' Hence, they have pure profits from 'donations' that aren't even taxed. Sure, the 'Visions' crap has to be purchased, but those watches can't cost more than $100, so how can you lose selling them for $500? Just more profit. But it really does amaze me that he can raise $6.8 million from 'big doners' in one day, if what J-M says in true. That's impressive. With that kind of money, Maharaji will likely be around for quite a long time. I just hope this website can help people, and a person-by-person basis, get out.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 23:35:48 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Joe Subject: Joe, a tidbit about current fundraising... Message:

according to a source who posts here, and was around the 'high donors group', the inner circle of high donors had a minimum of $50,000/year donation, to get invited to special meetings with m. this last year, it got raised to a minimum of $100,000/year, to be in the insiders club...remember, that's MINIMUM! at one point, the cameraman who was videotaping the event turned the video camera on the crowd of people seated at the tables, to get a general shot for a future video, and all the people either turned away or shielded their face with menus, to avoid being seen in a possible video... Secretive, and very, very exclusive, indeed...

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 23:42:57 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: joe Subject: Plus, some simple math on all that stuff... Message:

6.8 Million, divided by 100,000=68 donors... However, with $100,000 being the MINIMUM, there esily could have been just 50 donors, or less... according to the source, there were about 100-150 at last years high donors event, but each probably had a 'significant other' with them for the momentous occasion, so the total may have been 50-75 donors... and then this year, with the bar being raised to $100,000 minimum, probably a few of those unfortunate donors got dropped to the next level down... I'm sure that Ev wouldn't just drop them, they probably just invited them to another 'special event', like the one with the amtext buyers, whcih although 'special', is just not as 'special' as those in the $100,000 club.... kind of like 'animal farm', where everyone is equal, it's just that some people are more equal than others.... I think some of the special donors probably gave m shares in stock of startup companies that went big....

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 17:14:06 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: la-ex Subject: Who ARE these people? Message:

How many people can donate $100,000 every year? Even 68 people is a large number. I recall a few really rich premies, but by and large premies always seemed to be people of modest means. Where do these people come from? And how is going to a few meetings with M and feeling 'special' enough to warrant giving that kind of money? It's amazing.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:16:23 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Joe Subject: Who ARE these people? Well, David Coyne.... Message:

was around the DECA project from the beginning and he's from the Coyne Textiles family. I understand he's still around. He didn't do much at DECA as I remember except sit around and make jokes and attend meetings with M (David has major family money). What's a few hundred grand when you've got millions? Obviously M treats them as FRIENDS! If you can imagine the booger having any friends. There must be enough of those types around who still get a kick out of being around the Lard because they seem to be eager to donate. Maybe they invested their inheritances or trust funds so they can still live rich and donate richly::))) Hey, if you're into hangin' out with the creep on his yacht and get rides on his plane, drink the finest, smoke the smokiest, travel around the world and get VIP status, it's probably a big ego booster. And--it's all a cult within the cult. Whatever, it all makes me ill. Cynthia

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 21:55:08 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Who ARE these people? Well, David Coyne.... Message:

Yeah, I thought of David, but are there 68 of these people? David seems to have sold his fortune for the opportunity to be close to Maharaji. He would have been better off buying a handful of beans, because I doubt Maharaji would give a crap about him if he didn't have money. I remember in the early 70s, when David inherited a shitload of money, he bought Maharaji a Rolls Royce. I know there were other rich premies, but I never knew any, although there were a few rich ones in DC and a couple in Miami, but I don't recall large numbers of them. I'm sure some premies have struck it rich and perhaps they are forking over money, but I would assume that the crash of the NASDAQ might put a bit of a damper on that. Joe

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 03:56:10 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Joe Subject: I know, it's weird, so MUCH money.... Message:

I guess it's relative to how much you have, and I'll bet many of them are newbies. Hey, maybe it's hip, new-age, cool, to get a guru, worship him, give him a few hundred thousand and hang out on his yacht.?? Follow him around the world? Just because someone's rich doesn't make them invulnerable to a cult. He has a non-profit, cult religion going and it's come down to those few major donors, who have the where-with-all to give him what he wants. He's a con-man. And really slick. I don't think that's all that much money when you you consider other cults like Moon. He's weasled his way into the big time programmable types. Truly pathetic. So much money wasted on his whims and wishes. Some charitable organization, huh?

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 17:38:04 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Joe Subject: Trust fund premies Message:

Most of the wealthy premies I knew were very uncomfortable with their unearned wealth. Some gave it all to M and others, when confronted with 'leave M or get cut out of the trust fund' chose M. I think giving makes one feel better about themselves - less guilty about having all that money. So it's a set up that since M has a noble cause, by supporting that him, somehow the donator becomes noble or otherwise part of 'his mission'. Faulty logic but there you are. Most of them are the FTRTFP - 'First Three Rows Trust Fund Premies'. Plus a few who have earned it themselves and attribute their success to M&K. They are the only people who can afford to travel the world at M's whimsy for 45 minutes of proximity. By the way, if anyone donates to anything, bear in mind that at least 90 cents of every dollar goes towards more fundraising and NOT to the cause you intended it for. I NEVER donate now except anonymously.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 20:32:55 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Joe Subject: Miami Beach in July-I sweat just thinking about it Message:

Hi Joe, I never knew that DLM got the Convention Center for free. With so many attending at the time, late 70s, it's amazing to me that he was profiting so much. Man, I am gullible. What an absolute pig! All the time he was squeezing money out of premies for his stupid 707, he still held programs which cost the premies a lot--for travel, lodging. Those old, dank, Miami Beach hotels were something to experience. I remember that experience, you know, it's like, they were baaaaaad! I haven't been to Miami Beach since I left the luxurious Broadripple! A cult-tourism opportunity for the Miami Beach Chamber of Commerce! Wow! Love, Cynthia

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 21:31:32 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Good point Cynthia Message:

Raising money for the plane as if they needed it on one hand and raking in the dough with the other, at a free hall. Whatta scam! I remember one very sincere premie in LA missing a program in Miami (now I think so what, she missed it, right? probably better off) because they had one of those 'give every cent you have for the plane' shakedowns. Not that long after the shakedown, a program in Miami was announced. Well she literally had given every spare cent she had. Another sister in the ashram and I thought it was pretty disgraceful that the urgency for plane money was presented to the community in such a manner as to make someone that sincere miss a program. My friend realized that DLM/EV was actually counting on most seasoned premies not to believe them, and hold something back. So they announced a program to get some more out of us, although I didn't realize it at the time. What did they care if she went or not. They had already fleeced her. That was one of those drips that I didn't feel until later. Kind of like when there is a leak in your roof but the ceiling is holding back the water. Then you get enough in one spot and it eats through the ceiling and there you are. My drips were kinda like that. --f

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 03:27:05 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Francesca Subject: I like your invisible ''drips'' analogy, Fran Message:

Mine too accumulated mostly un-noticed behind the ceiling and one day it broke it and all poured out but before it did I did notice some leaking and thought that, if I ignored it, it would go away.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 05:20:51 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: PatC Subject: Separated at birth, what did I tellya Message:

or did you tell me??? love, f

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 20:52:30 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: That's why he likes sea gulls. Message:

They remind him of the gullibility of premies.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 20:47:50 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Miami Beach has become quite trendy Message:

The cult benefitted from the decrepit state of Miami Beach and the desperation of the city for convention dollars in the 70s. Now, Miami Beach, especially South Beach, has become quite a trendy place with all those deco hotels converted into ritzy night clubs and restaurants. It would be a lot less profitable for the cult to use that area now. Yeah, the hotels were something else. The cult travel agency made even more money off those the hotels and plane tickets. But despite it all, Maharaji spends more money than he can possibly ever raise, and that's why he has to constantly be fundraising. And because, like you said, he is constantly stopping and changing things, in the most inefficient manner, tons of money gets wasted, just like it always did. If it hadn't been for lots of free slave labor and donations, he would have been bankrupt a long time ago.

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 17:45:35 (GMT) From: SloeBurn Email: None To: Everyone Subject: What is Amaroo all about? Message:

I keep seeing references to this and I have gathered it is some kind of isolated compound? Not Jim Jones style hopefully. Can someone give me a short run-down? (Not like the bicyclist if you don't mind.. ha ha)

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 13:02:57 (GMT) From: Scott T. Email: None To: SloeBurn Subject: What is Amaroo all about? Message:

Sloe: Amaroo is about the globalization of spiritual deception, same thing as the 'Lady Di' phenomenon. Localized deception is no longer convincing, because too many people are left out of the program to feed skepticism. It's like trying to get dressed for a date when all you have in the closet are socks. You have to get creative with what you've got. Hope this helps, Scott T.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 11:55:42 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: SloeBurn Subject: What is Amaroo all about?-it goes like this Message:

you came in after the time i posted this so I'll say it again just for you: a long long time ago when we were all young, we had this wistful notion that if we could just get our own land somewhere, far away from the rest of the world, we could go there and be together with maharaji forever. the world would never intrude. we wouldn't have to deal with normal people who 'lived in the maya' and 'were in their minds' and 'in their egos' and were 'chasing after material things that could never give them peace'. We talked of how we would all live there and build a Divine city that would demonstrate Heaven On Earth to the world, show them how to live in peace in the True Knowledge of God. well...first someone donated a tract of land in south america to maharaji and they named it La Tierra Del Amor. premies went there and did a lot of work planting orage trees and clearing the land and filling in bogs and building structures on it for maharaji. He was really into it for a while and then lost interest it seemed. Then came Amaroo, described by the website Salam has referred you to, and described in the first person for you by Lesley. There was an appeal sent out in the mid 90's for premies to come to australia and work on making the place habitable. It was made clear that ayone who wished to do so had to pay their own way there and pay for their own housing, food and any other needs. they would not get paid for their work. The land is dangerous. It is loaded with poisonous snakes, scorpions and various other hostile creatures native to the terrain. It is located adjacent to a prominent landmark known to australians as Ivory's Rock. Maharaji realized that the place was nowhere near ready to build any Divine City on, much less have premies living there or paying for festivals year round, so he hatched this scheme to rent out what facilities they could create, and bill it as Ivory's Rock Conference Center, available to the public for seminars, events, etc. as of this last festival there are now a natural amphiteatre with the Rock as its backdrop, a restaurant that seems to work best as a Price-fix kitchen, called 'fine dining', a central pavilion that is designed to be a modular food court where independent commissaries can set up booths or carts around an open patio of tables to serve eventgoers, a conference building in which to hold said seminars, etc, and a campground that reportedly can hold in the realm of 1800 campers if they like that sort of thing. for still more PR points, rehabbed wildlife was recently brought there and turned loose, and a sign at thed road claims the place to now be a wildlife preserve, on top of everything else. Since there is no de facto facility there to take care of the wildlife, treat it, monitor it, or in any other way see to its well being, the only thing they are preserving is their image. You might as well call a feral cat colony in a city a'wildlife preserve'. the cats at least get fed by doting old ladies. Can't say that much for the animal life at Ivory's Rock. Only Maharaji and the premies call it Amaroo. To the governement and the credit reporting agencies it is Ivory's Rock Conference Center--and thanks to some credit research that Salam did, we now know it's credit rating is terrible. The debt load on the4 place is enormous and it isn't taking in anywhere near the income it would have to, to meet its payments. I think Maharaji probably WILL get buried there--but not in the way he meant it when he said it...

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:37:12 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: SloeBurn Subject: Amaroo.suck Message:

http://www.amaroo.org/home.html

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 19:51:01 (GMT) From: Lesley Email: None To: SloeBurn Subject: What is Amaroo all about? Message:

Amaroo is a real place, it is hot and dusty, prone to bushfires, it used to be a farm. This is australia, don't think of green pastures, think big dry spaces where you can run a small herd in a large place. I remember my dad saying he had met an australian farmer whose property was larger than England! It is not far from Ipswich, which is a largish, by australian standards, town in SE Queensland. It is the place where, reportedly, Maharaji has said he wants to be buried, that's between threatening to sell it if we silly fuckers can't make it turn a profit. That is not an easy proposition, even if these millions of dollars that the Portland donors have pledged materialises AND get spent on the place, I can't see it running a profit from conferences, people are not going to run their international conferences in australia are they, too far away from everywhere else. And who would pay a good price for it?, an overdeveloped cowpaddock back of Ipswich (home town to the infamous, racist rightwinger, Pauline Hanson). The only possibility I can see is of rich premies paying to build a retirement home for themselves there, and really they don't want to live in such an inhospitable place. Sloeburn, I saw your first posting, have to say I think that you need to do a bit of thinking about your own beliefs. When your wife exhibits distress at you doing the meditation techniques without going through the cult process, it is because she believes in Maharaji, to challenge that belief will take her through the wringer, may I suggest that you be prepared to go through it with her, and challenge your own? Best regards, Lesley

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Date: Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 14:41:04 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: Lesley Subject: Why isn't Ipswich on my map? Message:

Hi Lesley. I have a large road map of Australia and have been studying Queensland with a magnifying glass, and no Ipswich anywhere - though dozens of other large towns are shown. It's not even in the index. Hmm, very mysterious.

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Date: Thurs, May 10, 2001 at 21:01:30 (GMT) From: Lesley Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Why isn't Ipswich on my map? Message:

Hmmm, perhaps Ipswich doesn't rate as big as I thought, or it's grown since your map was drawn. It is about an hours drive directly west of Brisbane, is Toowoomba on your map? draw a line from Brisbane to Toowoomba and Ipswich should be in the middle....er, I should add I was hopeless at geography at school! Hi Nigel, been enjoying your posts, affectionately yours, Lesley.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 13:20:50 (GMT) From: SloeBurn Email: None To: Lesley Subject: What is Amaroo all about? Message:

<> Hmm... well I am always challenging all of my own beliefs. It takes me a long time to 'believe in' anything. That is how I grow. I don't know what specifically you mean. If you mean that I do believe that there are enlightened people here and now, that is just how I have experienced some individuals in my own life. But I don't believe they should be worshipped. That is the only thing I can recall that I have said about my personal beliefs. Also, I think there was a misunderstanding. I have not practiced the M meditation. Not because I am afraid to, but it just doesn't appeal to me. I have other meditation techniques that I can use that aren't 'tainted'. All I was saying is that my wife is concerned that I will try them.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 19:25:04 (GMT) From: Lesley Email: None To: SloeBurn Subject: Going through the wringer Message:

Hi Sloe, I guess I got the sense from what you said, that you attribute a fair bit of importance to the charisma of enlightenment. Here in Australia we are just in the middle of an annual sporting event: the state of origin rugby league best of three matches. I was watching it with my husband, who made the comment that the queensland captain had the transcendental look that a past nsw captain (Laurie Daly) used to get....they just get into the flow, are captaining on instinct, and having a great bloody time, and yes it really is bloody, bone crunching stuff.....so there it is folks, you don't need to go into the foetal state to have enlightenment! Personally, coming to the understanding that Mr Rawat, whose stage persona 'Maharaji', I genuinely loved and trusted, was not the divine enlightened being that he portrays himself as, was a mind bending experience, and it had a follow on effect: I figured that I was looking at a live 'enlightened one' and it wasn't a pretty sight, so Jesus stopped looking good too, and on it rolled til I had decided that God could stuff his 'heaven' where the sun don't shine. When you really start to examine what you believe, a lot of it starts to look pretty silly, imo. It is no joke, what you said about helping a loved one down from the mountain really struck a chord with me, we all need our loved ones to be true friends when the chips go down. Wishing you the best, Lesley

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 20:48:10 (GMT) From: SloeBurn Email: None To: Lesley Subject: Going through the wringer Message:

No, I think I probably look at things a little differently. I don't think sitting naked on a mountain meditating for a million years is going to achieve enlightenment. I am NOT waiting for a guru to come and save me. I see this all as a learning process and I have a lot of the library yet to go through. But when I do occasionally encounter someone who is has something to teach, I listen. Do I want enlightenment? Sure I do, but I will settle for understanding and self-realization.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 09:35:26 (GMT) From: sivan Email: - To: Lesley Subject: japanese tourists Message:

when i was there they had a couple of coaches of japanese students staying. Space is scarce in japan and the idea was to provide outdoor aussie camping and a big aussie steak bbq- steaks r very expensive in japan also. Maybe the japanese will pay for the novelty- conferences etc

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 19:44:06 (GMT) From: Lesley Email: None To: sivan Subject: japanese tourists, active bunch, weren't they Message:

the pace of japanese tourism is extraordinary isn't it, their feet never seemed to touch the ground! Well I guess we made a bit of money outa them, the catering side showed a small profit, but if you put that even just against the ongoing maintenance costs, it's a joke. Now perhaps a 'photo opportunity' with a wallaby, suitably presented in an immaculate plastic wallet, might beef up the coffers a bit. If we met, we might recognise eachother, were you staying in camp f?, i just spent a little time thinking about my experiences there, can't pretend to feel lighthearted about it, makes my chest feel like that bloody barbecued steak! Love, Lesley

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 23:16:49 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: Lesley/Sloeburn Subject: To my mind , now that I no longer see Rawat as... Message:

...some sort of enlightened being , but as a fucked up megalomaniac with low tastes , trying to suss out how his mind might work is just about impossible . Could be that man made luxuries have palled a bit , & what he needs is his name on the title deeds to a satisfying chunk of terra firma to consolidate his image of himself as a man of substance . The Rev. Moon , a much richer & more successful huckster than rawat , is busy buying up 100's of sq.miles in Paraguay . What's that all about ? who knows . Maybe Rawat is just keeping up with the Joneses . No pun intended .

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 23:30:03 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Bin Liner Subject: ''...keeping up with the Joneses!'' Nice one, Bin Message:

But you're probably wrong about him wanting to be landed gentry. It's probably some much less logical motive. The man is a walking mass of illogic, impracticality and inconsistency.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 15:28:31 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Does the Rat have a residence at Amaroo? n/t Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 20:46:40 (GMT) From: Lesley Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Lord, no, he camps Message:

Cynthia, I just wrote a bitter funny answer, I would have liked to post, but talking about amaroo is not the same as talking about deca, it is happening now, and I didn't feel right about poking fun at the misguided efforts of some very sweet people who simply don't understand what they are involved in. When I read what I had written, I put myself in their shoes, and realised it wouldn't be funny to them, I'm sure you understand how they would feel, so the straight answer is; nothing on the grandiose scale of Malibu, but his 'campsite' would have cost at least as much as a house to build. The 'Lodge', which was the first dwelling built for him, is where his family stays when they are there. The money that is spent housing and entertaining the 'guest speaker' on a visit would probably be (I'm guessing here) at least enough to support a family for a year. Wot's the bet that he builds a 'Residence fit for the Lord' outa the dough from his loyal sponsors? Best regards, Lesley

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 20:20:09 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: ^^Cynthia, that's a really dumb question!^^^^^^n/t Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 13:05:01 (GMT) From: Bryn Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Does Prem Pal really COLLECT wrist watches? Message:

Is it true? Has anyone here seen his 'collection'? Is he a genuine 'wrist-watch fancier'? Or is he more a man who is always upgrading and just leaves a trail of redundant watches behind him. If he is a genuine collector, does he display his collection? How? To whom? Under what circumstances? What is his atitude to his 'collection' when/if he does this? Is he in touch with other wrist-watch enthusiasts Has he ever expressed why he is so attracted to the wrist-watch? Has anyone here got any details on this? I find it hard to comprehend personally, how the humble watch can be elevated to fetish status. I freely admit that my mother was into packets of sugar, my father had a thing about golf balls, and for a short while in adolescence I was heavily into plectrums-so I don't enquire in any holier than thou spirit. I am just curious to know the exact relationship that Prem Pal has to wrist-watches. Anybody know? Love Bryn

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 17:06:29 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Bryn Subject: 'It's a bad habit' - Prem Pal Message:

'It's a bad habit' - Prem Pal Singh Rawat (aka 'Maharaji') I heard him say these exact words in a video while he was talking about his habit of collecting expensive wrist watches. Years ago in the late '70s I heard a 'community coordinator' brag about buying a $5,000 watch for Rawat at Rawat's request.

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 21:57:56 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: G Subject: A question for premies Message:

CD, Mili, Mel Bourne, and whoever else. How do you reconcile somebody who is supposedly always in touch with that 'place within' with having a 'bad habit'? I myself don't see how it's done. Perhaps you could explain it to me how you do since, apparently, you must. I bet I don't get a single answer to this question, just like CD never answered why he has to meditate and 'keep in touch' with Maharaji if happiness is not a consequence. Some questions just can't be answered I guess, if you want to maintain some semblence of rationality.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:14:18 (GMT) From: Bob Email: None To: Jerry Subject: A question for premies-answer from an ex Message:

Being an ex premie I might be allowed to answer? Way back in the early 70's when we went to India for Hans Jayanti I heard satsang from mahatmas about war gurus (Govind Singh). The stories are about k. as a tool to detach oneself from ones actions to be able to do the most immoral things possible without feeling any guilt. The Gita is about a warrior who feels terrible about having to kill family members, friends and his archery teacher. Krishna, who is the 'perfect master' here, imparts the knowledge (?). After that Arjuna is able to kill all of them and still feel cool about it. ('happiness is not a consequence') In India it was assumed that k. was absolutely a-moral, and that was why they thought one needed strict guidance from an enlightened soul, since judgement would fail when getting into it. That was why in an earlier thread I mentioned learning the techniques from a chinese tradition, probably more than a 1000 years old, without gurus and probably completely seperate from the Indian tradition. (did I mention much more effective?) Because although I like the Gita, I do see the seeds of corruption already in there, 3000 BC !

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 01:56:24 (GMT) From: Bob Email: None To: FA Subject: Krishna Message:

Could I make this A new thread instead of a reply? I think it's that important. Thanks (talking about the Quote)

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 02:15:51 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Only K is perfect, you silly Message:

Hi Jerry! You said: CD, Mili, Mel Bourne, and whoever else. How do you reconcile somebody who is supposedly always in touch with that 'place within' with having a 'bad habit'? I myself don't see how it's done. Perhaps you could explain it to me how you do since, apparently, you must. I want to give an example of what I thought about the subject when I was a premie. First, lets remember Lard says that only K is perfect and that he is just a human being. I think this is how Rawat justifies his behavior to his premies to answer any doubt a premie may have, especially to those premies who have found out details about his personal life, crimes, etc. I did just that. Even when he said he wasn't enlightened or the savior I still sometimes thought he was God, and I had an imaginary, intimate relationship with him in my head. I didn't question much the discrepancies. The cult mentality didn't allow me to think further why I didn't care one way or another who he was. Ironically, even then I served his cause for years! I guess that is what cult mentality is about, more as maharalard teaches K; don't question the master, just do it: Be a servant of the master, be grateful forever and ever. No, K is not a gift after all... He wanted my soul. Well, I know that premies sometimes think is 'nice' to believe that maharaji is perfect, you know. Premies play around in their heads with the subject and sometimes he 'looks' like he is perfect and sometimes he looks human. What a mystery, eh? Not so if one begin to think I say. Who is maharaji? A FRAUDE! He makes mistakes because he doesn't know what in the hell he is talking about! That is the total truth. He's human as anybody else I know, and a crappy teacher of happiness. He is a bussiness, dilussional, naughty man. I don't give him any brakes. ANY! What his teachings do to people is depicable. It traps them into been a cult memeber and in behaving like one, lying to them, asking them to follow 'the leader', painting his cult as better thing on Earth when in reality it robes people of their true freedom; the freedom to REALLY find out what life is about. No excuses premies: Look at yourself with courage and honesty and you will see the 'other side of the coin'. I did and my life is getting better and better. Jerry, I think the named premies cannot answer that one. I may be wrong. We'll see. luv S, still learning English. ;)

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:19:46 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: SB Subject: Your English is excellent and post tres bien NT Message:

g

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:36:15 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: PatC Subject: Your English is excellent and post tres bien NT Message:

Thanks Pat for saying that. Years after I still doubt that people can understand sometimes what I am trying to say. I am not a good writer. It takes me long to write even few paragraphs and sometimes I just get frustrated and just press submit. :0 I want to tell you that I enjoy your posts very much. I like your mind. ;) Have fun. SB

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 08:05:07 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: SB Subject: Well, I'm glad you like my mind. So do I :)) Message:

I hope you get better at writing so I can get to enjoy your mind. I hope you like your mind just as much. How can anyway not enjoy the mind? It is the most fascinating part of a human being.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:15:12 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: SB Subject: An excellent post. Message:

SB, That was an excellent post, very well put. G, still learning English after all these years. P.S. I recommend www.dictionary.com as a good learning tool, I use it often.

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 18:39:51 (GMT) From: Joy Email: None To: G Subject: 'It's a bad habit' - Prem Pal Message:

If he admits it's such a bad habit, why doesn't he auction some of them off and give the proceeds to charity? Isn't he supposed to be a humanitarian master, and not a materialistic pig?

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 21:00:49 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Joy Subject: That's a good question. Message:

When he talked about it, he made no mention of stopping his habit or selling his collection and putting the money to constructive use. He just said it was a bad habit. Maybe he knew of some critical FV posts about it and thought that simply admitting that it's a bad habit would make it appear ok. Actually, quite the opposite. It's one thing if someone doesn't know any better, but if someone knows they have a bad habit, they should stop it. His watch collection is just the tip of the iceburg, there's also the mansions, many luxory automobiles, 12+ car garage (just in Malibu), the 7 million dollar megayacht, glider, helecoptor and helepad, small plane, Gulfstream V jet, the house in LA (I still wonder what that is for), expensive clothes, private tutors, chefs, dog trainers, the finest booze, eating at the best restaurants, at least 10,000 CDs, audiophile stereos, 2 million dollar sound system, tennis courts, swimming pools, .......... What materialistic luxory doesn't he have?

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 12:16:07 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: G Subject: his own country? his own island? Message:

his own spaceship?

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 10:55:50 (GMT) From: Bryn Email: None To: G Subject: Thanks G. The rich are wierd, Message:

I forgot for a moment. Your catalogue of consumer icons acquired by the lord makes a watch collection look perfectly reasonable! Silly me. I must learn to own more. love Bryn

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 13:51:50 (GMT) From: Dermot Email: None To: Bryn Subject: It's his antidote to the timeless experience (nt) Message:

xx

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 09:05:30 (GMT) From: Sunday Comics: Email: None To: Everyone Subject: DIVINE TCHOTCHKES Message:

Here is a selection of Divine Merchandise from not-too-old catalogs from Visions International. Look it all the good stuff you premies who left years ago have been missing: Divine Tchotchkes

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 19:34:01 (GMT) From: Elan Vital Email: None To: Sunday Comics: Subject: Visions International Message:

Dear Whoever you are: Visions International is a subsidiary of the 100% non-cult, Elan Vital. As you would know if you weren't, as we speak, being swept out to sea in the river of bondage to maya, the purpose of Elan Vital is to help support the spread of Maharaji's teachings to the lost, confused and miserable, people of this world who are seeking to fulfill themselves through the pursuit of material possessions. Maharaji has moved beyond attachment to material possessions, hence his $7 million yacht does not get in the way of his mission. But Maharaji realizes that people still are into material things, and we sell some items through our Visions subsidiary that help in that regard. Even though Visions employs at least two of Maharaji's children, and even though Maharaji has designed many of the supremely perfect and exciting designs utilized in the Vision's products, Maharaji has nothing to do with the management of either Visions or Elan Vital. We just do whatever we want and he has no input whatsoever. We just set up events and then send him an invitation, hoping that he will show up. Yes sir, we are just completely separate and Maharaji has nothing to do with Elan Vital. How could you possibly think otherwise? The Visions products are reflections of the one-pointed effort of Maharaji to his mission. For example, watches that remind people to breathe are all part of the plan for helping the lost people of the world experience true peace. Chrystal, pens and gold-trimmed tea cups are also essential parts of that mission, as are greeting cards, kites, and new-age elevator music. All purchases from Visions are made freely, and being that we are not a cult, we do not force anyone to buy things they don't want to buy. Elan Vital has never held a gun to anyone's head and forced them to buy a watch. We have a policy against doing that sort of thing which is very clear. Anyone is free to NOT purchase anything the don't want to, even though failure to purchase an 'every breath' watch for $525, might result in death due to lack of oxygen, or perhaps sitting in the 177th row at the next an event, although purchase of the $90 watch, might get you to the 50th row. Visions keeps careful records of purchases and keeps that information in mind when assigning seats at events to which Maharaji is invited, which is another example of synchronization. Elan Vital is also distressed that you anonymous, negative people would make fun of people who have spoon collections. Spoon collecting is a noble and acceptable hobby, and Elan Vital believes strongly that people with spoon collections should not be discriminated against. We have a policy against this. Accordingly, in furtherance of Elan Vital's policy of NOT discriminating against those who collect spoons, Visions offers our wonderful spoons, with carving designed by Maharaji, for only $49.99 each, spending nearly 94 cents each for the manufacture, in a very prestigious area of Sheffield, by unempoloyed steel workers for one pound per hour. To do anything less would be discriminatory and wrong against spoon collecting PWKs, who are already dealing with unwarranted discrimination. Sincerely and in syncrhonized participation: Elan Vital

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 05:57:03 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Sunday Comics: Subject: Luv, this sh*t is ONLINe Message:

I mean, just BREATHE, baby. Full Visions International gift catalog, uh, sorry: gift boutique main catalog menu for the full effect Found this stuff online a while ago. I couldn't believe what social class he was going for with this stuff. He should sell SUVs with subtle swan logos in the pain job next. Golf clubs that say 'every breath' on each club. Of course, what they really need are those Aussie outback hats to keep the flies off with the corks all around the brim. Each cork could have 'every breath' on it. Luv, f

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 09:04:26 (GMT) From: Chuck Sprague Email: bctanda@hotmail.com To: Francesca Subject: Holy Krishna! ''EiYdhIwNaY''... Message:

Thanks for those links, Francesca. I didn't even think to look on the Visions International site. Premie Home Shopping Network. On the site, in the Gift Boutique section, I noticed the ''EiYdhIwNaY'' greeting cards. I remember seeing that ''EiYdhIwNaY'' plastered over all kinds of items in prior catalogs. It means ''Even in your darkest hour, I will never abandon you''. Gee, what a comfort. Unless of course you're riding a bicycle and he runs you over. Then he will abandon you pretty damn quick, and leave someone else to take the blame, too. But what I want to know is, how can I be sure he will never abandon me, when he doesn't know my name, and he doesn't WANT to know? Can you imagine it: ''I'll never abandon you, uh... er... what's your name? Oops! Forget it! I don't wanna know!'' And of course, ''EiYdhIwNaY'' comes from the Bhagavad Gita, so I suppose that makes Maharaji Krishna? Maybe he really IS Krishna. This Krishna guy sounds pretty unreliable, and cruel and tyranical, too. If the shoe fits... or the Krishna crown, whatever. Sorry Pauline Premie, but I think I'd rather take my chances with that ''Boring old Jesus''. He might be a fairy tale too, but at least he doesn't cancel my hotel reservations and tell me I need to rebook through his agency at a higher price. Or tell you you're getting a discount, when you're being charged $20.00 a day extra.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 17:52:47 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Chuck Sprague Subject: A whim a way, a whim away Message:

Chuck: Hon, they are shameless. The product descriptions are priceless. I get the feeling that even the tchotchkes have to do with having a piece of 'M''s fine taste in life. Fine crystal, $500 watches, nice pens. I want to see the Monte Blanc special edition. I'll bet they wouldn't do one -- too tacky for them! 'Every breath you take every buck I make every smile I fake every buck I take I'm not watching you.' -- the real 'sting-o' Your hotel story was priceless too. Tell the truth and shame the devil. luv, f

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 10:36:23 (GMT) From: Mr. Mind Email: None To: Chuck Sprague Subject: ''EiYdhIwNaY''... and disclaimer # 2 Message:

....and if he doesn't run you over, therefore forcing him to abandon you and you still feel abandoned, well, just know you're not abandoned, you just don't have that awareness, so grin and bare it, have faith and let the good times roll. Checks can be made to Elan Vital or Maharaji.'

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 08:43:40 (GMT) From: Thelma the Church Lady Email: None To: Francesca Subject: DIVINE TCHOTCHKES ONLINE! Where's my VISA? Message:

Now one of those hats, Francesca, would have come in handy when I was in Amaroo if the corks were replaced with bells because it would have stopped me from nodding off during You Know Who's talks about You Know What. Not that he was boring or mind-bendingly incomprehensible as some of the nastier exes have suggested. It was just very hot and I'm getting on in years. It was so hot my colostomy bag came unglued during arti when I was waving my little portable arti tray around and I had to...I won't go into detail but I was glad THAT didn't happen during darshan. But, I digress. The mugs, spoons, glass swans, pens etc...okay, so I buy them but I was stoned on that old gopi-juice at the time. The worst was when I wondered around the Hall of Divine Tchotchkes in Long Beach blissed almost out of my silicone tits looking for a beatific portrait of You Know Who and bought one for $800. You see to me it is obvious that you don't understand the psychology behind the divine paraphernalia. They all look so beautiful when you're blissed out. And then I must admit, when you get home and have to wash out the old underwear that's been sitting in your suitcase for a week in a smelly plastic bag and the credit card bill arrives...okay so they don't look too hot after that and you put them away and never use them. But they sure look good when you're full of the old bhakti-juju juice. Don't you keep souvenirs? PatC: But, seriously, they are carefully targeted to the same mentality that prefers watching god on satellite TV and writing checks for salvation. Very good market research. What was that saying of Barnum something like ''You'll never stay poor by underestimating the taste of Americans or founding a new religion?'' But the whole world is McAmericola now and, according to Abbie Hoffman, it's getting the god it deserves. Now that's a scary thought. If Nixon could be resuscitated so could Rev Moon Beam and we'll go down in history as Judas Iscariots. Always thought he got a bum rap for criticizing Jesus for wasting money instead of giving it to the poor. ''The poor,'' Jesus told Judas in typical undemocratic guru fashion; ''are always with you but I am not.'' Wanna bet that the divine merchandise is sold on Rev Strangelove's TV shows next?

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 17:50:55 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Thelma the Church Lady Subject: little portable arti tray Message:

Shhhhhh! You might give You Know Who another idea for a tchotchke. Kind of like the candles with paper drip guards that are passed out in church, except these would cost $, $$, $$$, or $$$$. There could be different grades, the best only the richest pwikies could afford. The best would be made of solid gold with an inlaid 4 techniques design and thermal insulation, and with only the finest ghee from organically grown cows grazing near the Ganges. He would probably want to rent them to the pwikies though. Think of it, while singing 'You are the superior power in person.' to You Know Who, a pwikie could be checking out their neighbors' arti trays to see who has the best. A new agya: thou shall not covet thy neighbor's little portable arti tray. Imagine the embarrassment if they don't even have one. Of course, you know, they wouldn't be REQUIRED.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:26:31 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: G Subject: Thelma PAID 800 FOR HIS PICTURE!!! (nt) Message:

SEE??? Arti is back!!

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 14:50:22 (GMT) From: Gary Email: None To: Thelma the Church Lady Subject: HILARIOUS! (nt) Message:

hooha

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 06:09:01 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Francesca Subject: too much Message:

you are...ROFL. I love your humor girl! luv S

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 06:05:46 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: All Subject: note the 525 dollar watch ... yeah right n/t Message:

n/t

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 12:34:05 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Francesca Subject: the 525 dollar watch? in long beach i was standin Message:

at the trinket table, staring at these in disbelief, when who should sidle up alongside me but larry lusbader, onetime certified crazy in NYC who used to chop vegetables alongside me in the alive kitchen and babble incomprehensible stream of consciousness satsang as we stood together. he we are at the tables and i turn to see him standing there in a very expensive 3 pce suit and he tells me, apropos of nothing, that he just bought a bunch of these watches for friends of his. at that price. i was stunned. then i was repelled by the smugness of it and the profligate waste. and i backed away and went outside and realized that I'd been left behind at last. outpriced from maharajidom. cant pay, can't play. from then on it all seemed utterly unreal.

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 23:53:52 (GMT) From: bill Email: None To: Sunday Comics: Subject: This bric a brac probably was a big drip for many Message:

Thank you for saving it for future reference for the site.

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 21:11:38 (GMT) From: Chuck Sprague Email: bctanda@hotmail.com To: All Subject: DIVINE TCHOTCHKES and price gouging... Message:

Sorry I didn't include my name on the original posting, I was in a hurry last night to put the pics up. I usually would throw these catalogues away soon after recieving them, but these samples escaped, I recently re-discovered them among some old papers and junk mail I had thrown in a box and failed to sort through. To keep the pictures small, I had to cut out all the comments, like ''Today has not been a waste. I have celebrated today, I have listened to what my heart has to say.'' That was printed above the watch picture. I guess if you are really syncronized, your heart is supposed to say ''celebrate by buying a $89.00 watch or a $39.00 coffee mug or that $269.00 Limited Editon paper weight''? The scan of the watch didn't come out too clear. It has ''Every Breath'' printed on the watch face. I suspect that this is the same watch M. has a copyright patent on? I remember when the first offerings were just tee-shirts and caps, with a Swan Logo. Then came mugs. Then stationary. Then His and Her's bathrobes, then more expensive stuff, most of it pretty useless. I certainly wouldn't care to buy overpriced plates to hang on my walls. There has been quite an assortment of stuff over the years, this is just a small sample, I wished I had saved some of the more bizaare and tacky ones. We often used to look at the brochures and say to eachother, ''Oh my gawd, did you see what they're selling NOW?'' It reminds me of tacky Christians, selling things like John the Baptist shower curtains. I heard from a Premie once that M. hesitated to offer this stuff, but that the premies kept ASKING him to market things, so he gave in. That's the Party line. I don't find the marketing of junk itself particularly suprising or offensive, lots of people do it, but I do find it very ironic, considering all the sacrifices Ashram Premies were asked to make. They were asked to give up everything and be M's Cash Cows. Now that the ashrams are gone, M. sell's over-priced junk TO the premies to make money. The new Cash Cows buy stuff. Not only tchotchkes but his BS too. And pay over-inflated prices for everything to do with the World of Knowledge. I've noticed that years ago, accomodations at events used to be at discount rates for premies. Over the years, this changed, to the point where Elan Vital would book surrounding hotels and rent rooms out to Premies at HIGHER than the normal rates. At the last program we attended, we booked a motel independently of Elan Vital. Our booking was cancelled by Elan Vital, and we were told that Elan Vital had booked the entire motel for those dates, and we had to call a special Premie phone number and re-book, at a higher rate. That was the last progam we attended. Shameless price-gouging. It was pretty obvious that we were being used as Cash Cows. Being harvested like a resource did not make me feel all Warm and Fuzzy. Another big Drip.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:06:31 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Chuck Sprague Subject: divine spoon collection+high priced hotels... Message:

Thanks Chuck, my spoon collection was getting a bit thin, and I really didn't know when I would be able to pick up a pair of divine spoons...thanks again, I feel so complete now... about hotels...a friend of mine went to australia a few years ago and stayed off site at an EV sponsored hotel. EV had played up the fact that when he paid beforehand through EV, he would automatically save himself the distasteful task of having to 'check out' of the hotel at the end of the festival. This was billed as one of their many thoughtful favors to the premies. My friend forgot that he didn't have to check out, so he went to the front desk to check out and they said it had already been prepaid by EV. Because he wanted a receipt, he asked them for the current rate, and he found out that EV had tacked on another $20/night to his bill....quite a service....

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:23:34 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: la-ex Subject: EV tacked on 20/night to his bill. Message:

I find this to be quite dishonest and underhanded. They don't give premies the impression they are doing this at all, quite the opposite. I've suspected that someone like this is part of maha the butt's money scheme. This is confirmation.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 00:23:42 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Chuck Sprague Subject: the watch patent Message:

He shares a watch patent with a premie (who I suspect did all the work) on a gizmo watch that tells you the time in any city. All you have to do is give it the latitude and longitude of the city or hook it up to a GPS system. What could be easier? It's a watch that every eccentric millionaire globetrotter simply must have.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 02:07:27 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: G Subject: Rives McDow invented the watch (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:38:51 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Richard Subject: Did Rawat have any input? Message:

Was it Rawat's idea, did he contribute at all to the design of the watch?

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:54:28 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: G Subject: Did Rawat have any input? Message:

My understanding (which may be inaccurate) was that M said 'what if' and Rives picked up on the idea and ran with it. So technically, M had input. Don't know if Rives ever found a manufacturer for it but he did go to Switzerland to see about getting it produced. Rives also raised the capital to develop the watch via premie 'investors'. The watch display case was apparently a tour-de-force by the craftsperson (DECA veteran with last name Wilbur) who also made the Krishna Crown box shown here earlier.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 04:12:39 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Richard Subject: That sounds like minimal input. Message:

Certainly not enough to warrent sharing the patent. Rawat claims on his site www.maharaji.org that he has a patent on a watch, no mention that it is shared with the real inventor. He is such a phoney, and cheap too. Sounds like he wouldn't even pay for this silly gizmo watch he wanted. I didn't see the crown box.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 05:18:12 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: G Subject: Hari Krishna Message:

Here's the box that was used to carry the entire Krishna outfit. Originally part of the DECA 707 project. Another important invention, probably not patented in case anyone else wants to file for one. Krishna Box

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 16:23:23 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Richard Subject: His drawing looks like a young child's... Message:

His drawing looks like it was done by a young child with no artistic talent. Yet he claims to be an artist and hints that he is all-knowing (otherwise why would he allow arti to be sung to him?). If he were all-knowing, or just an artist, he would at least know a little about perspective. So far he has displayed no knowledge of perspective, color schemes, or composition. He is the king of mediocrity.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 20:46:16 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: G Subject: Maharaji Ain't No Artist! Message:

I have personal knowledge about his inability to draw, G. He can't sketch to save his own ass! I saw him day in and day out, making drawings that looked just like that one. Pure crap! What an illusionist! Cynthia

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 21:35:22 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Hey Rawat, I can draw better than you. HA HA HA Message:

Ok, maybe that's a little immature, but I just couldn't resist. Yes, Rawat, I've received compliments on some drawings from people who don't worship me (and nobody does worship me). I saw a video of Rawat supposedly drawing what looked like an ok (but mediocre) drawing. But come to think of it, it didn't show him actually drawing it. The video just gave that impression. In the 'Unique Event' video he was sitting in front of a Don Quixote statue and a painting of a wave and a sea gull flying. I wonder if he was trying to give the impression that he made them. Then there are his (supposely) designs, all mediocre. He probably didn't even create the finished products, probably just lousy sketches. It wouldn't surprise me, he claims to hold a patent on a gizmo watch, when really he shares it with the real inventor. And his web site www.maharaji.org. He says the art was done by him. What art? I don't see any art there, just some nauseating swirls. But even so, he probably just did some lousy sketches. Ok, so he has demonstrated that he is a lousy artist, singer, dancer, and composer, and a god-awful poet. 'Maharaji' a real Renaissance man. Oh yea, sure. A Renaissance man is defined as 'A man who has broad intellectual interests and is accomplished in areas of both the arts and the sciences.' Broad intellectual interests? Not that I can see. The arts? That's been dealt with. The sciences? Well, just consider what he wrote about science in the EV newsletter. He said that every scientific discovery is a 'pandora's box'.

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 18:32:02 (GMT) From: Joy Email: None To: Sunday Comics: Subject: Enhancing My Spoon Collection Message:

The line that gets me is 'enhance your spoon collection'. Now considering that we were required to give over every single thing we possessed when moving into the ashram in the 1970s (including our precious record collections, as has been discussed here recently), jewelry, family heirlooms, clothing etc. -- well, I just find 'enhance your spoon collection' to be priceless! I think EV should send every ex-ashram member one of the commemorative coins to commemorate the donation of all their possessions made by the literally thousands of us who gave up everything for the greedy fraud. Thanks Chuck!

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 10:12:42 (GMT) From: Tim G Email: ? To: Sunday Comics: Subject: DIVINE TCHOTCHKES Message:

Hi SC, these give a whole new meaning to 'bad taste'. I thought I enjoyed bad taste. God Love the little blighter who wears that tie and handkerchief.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 22:26:58 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Tim G Subject: My Confession Message:

I bought the tie and handkerchief in Long Beach 1996. I wore the tie quite often as it was quite tasteful, but not with the handkerchief, as I never went to that kind of function. I remember keeping the box they were in as I thought it was holy. Oh, God, if you exist, please forgive me:-) John.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 14:28:51 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: JHB Subject: John, maybe you could sell them on EV-Bay (nt :) Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 23:16:33 (GMT) From: Selene Email: None To: Tim G Subject: both men and women will enjoy Message:

tie and handkerchief, hmmmm... Thanks Chuck that was truly 'priceless' and one of the funnier Sunday comics I've read in a while. I was like Cynthia in that the first 'divine bizarre' set up at the convention center was a big drip for me. Especially watching some of the others think nothing (literally) of piling up $100 or more on the already burdoned credit cards for this stuff. Here's a quick lookup on the word bazaar haha; 3. bazaar, fair -- a sale of miscellany; often for charity; 'the church bazaar'

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 15:02:36 (GMT) From: Mercedes Email: None To: Tim G Subject: DIVINE TCHOTCHKES Message:

So that's the spelling for 'tchotchkes'. Interesting. You guys have not seen the deck of cards they have with a swan design. I couldn't believe it. The more time passes since I left early this year the more I see how ridiculous the whole thing is. Slanta (is this the correct spelling for the Irish word?) Ciao Mercedes

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 15:19:48 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Mercedes Subject: DIVINE BRICK-O-BRACK...How Tacky! Message:

Hi Mercedes, I love the description on the watch: ''This distinguished watch not only gives the time, but can also be a reminder that every passing moment is precious.'' Cha-Ching! Maybe there's a built in hourly alarm with Rev Do-Bad's voice playing backwards: ''I am your Lord, give me all your money.'' The $29 coffee mug really gets me. Notice how no artist is given credit, too. I emailed Visions months ago to tell them to take me off of their catalog mailing list. It made me sick whenever I received them. I added in my email: ''You should know you're in a cult.'' The email back said this: ''You are removed.'' I just laughed...I'm removed all right! Love, Cynth

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 21:18:52 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: The designer of the various logos are none other Message:

than Prem Pal himself. I would be stunned if he wasn't lavishly credited somewhere in the catalog. He fancies himself a renaissance man and has the tchotckes to prove it. At one Long Beach event, the Divine Mall offered limited edition crystal sculpture, gold and silver commemorative Shri Hans coins, even chocolate bars in the shape of the technique logo. Cooking aprons, cocktail glasses, lapel pins, ad nauseum. Vainglory to the max. The Divine Mall and it's portrait gallery was about the last straw for me.

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 21:39:38 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Richard Subject: Richard, Is that what he says, or is it true? Message:

Hi Richard, I went to the very first worldwide live satellite feed in the Boston area 1998??. There was a a Divine brick-a-brack sales set-up. I was only willing to cough up $10US for a lousy mug which I have since thrown away, which said ''practice knowledge.'' I'd like to make a silk screened a T-shirt that says ''I gave my life away to the Maharajism Cult and All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt!''...or something to that affect. I really wanted the beautiful silk shawl...sincerely...it was the only nice item there and wasn't inscribed with anything, but a shawl at $275US was a bit fat for my budget. Plus, I could make one cheaper! I was experiencing Maharajism cult culture shock (I'd been away 16 years) and price shock as well. That was one weird program! Love, Cynthia

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 23:26:01 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Been there, done that, got the tee shirt, Cynthia Message:

You said: ''I'd like to make a silk screened a T-shirt that says 'I gave my life away to the Maharajism Cult and All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt!'...or something to that affect.'' We'll take three dozen of those for San Francisco Latvian Pigeon Fanciers' Night thanks.

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 22:53:58 (GMT) From: Mercedes Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: guilty... Message:

...of buying the first collector's coin. I want to take it to a jweler (?) and turn it into something else. GRRRRRR! I am such a succer I bought into the hole circus. Oh, well I loved the idea of the T-Shirt. Hope you are well, Mercedes (who just had a massage and sauna, feels so goood) I am relearning to be nice to myself....

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 00:11:26 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Mercedes Subject: me too ... Message:

I've got a mouse pad with a Rawat design, I keep it as a warning to myself. I can believe he designed it since it is mediocre. I had a Christmas ornament with the 4 techniques design, I later threw it away. I didn't go for the kaliedescope. I've got some idolatry CDs and lots of videos. Funny thing is I can probably count on one hand (definately two hands) the number of times I watched them. I saw the portrait gallery, he wanted something like $80 for a picture of him, he wants people to pay him to worship him. I was a put off by the price and was in conflict about the whole idea, that was a drip for me. I thought 'What's this? I thought he was supposed to be going away from the idolatry trip.'

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 02:30:08 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: G Subject: 80??? Message:

Some of his framed pictures were $600. Rememeber? I did service in Long Beach twice and saw it with my own eyes. Hi g! S

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:34:29 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: SB Subject: 600?????????????? Message:

No, I didn't know that, even now I'm shocked. The ones I saw were framed and I still thought $80 was way too high. But $600 ??????????????? This reminds me of a guy in Taiwan that a co-worker told me about. This guy, another fraud posing as God-in-a-bod, supposedly 'blesses' plastic flowers, then sells them for hundreds of dollars. He's raking in huge bucks. Also, there is an internet site where they sell empty plastic bottles that have been jujufied, All you add is water! Hi SB! G

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 03:43:33 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: G Subject: 600?????????????? YES Message:

One more thing I remeber is a premie doing service by me coment that she bought one at that exact price where maharaji is ironing some pants, wearing at that time a red robe. She was concerned with her husband knowing how much she spent. The picture was framed with a good wood frame but nothing really expensive. I know more or less their cost because i used to work in an Art Gallery of art reproductions (posters and lytographies-?-) and part of my job was to frame them: He made at least 10 times its cost! Yes. He takes advantage of the premies and well.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 15:11:53 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: SB Subject: That's it--I'm starting my own religion! Message:

Hi SB, My husband Tom was a professional picture framer for fifteen years and no frame job costs $600, unless there's conservation work involved! Yikes! Tom was watching ''Cool Hand Luke'' last night (for the 1,000th time) and I caught the part where Paul Newman finds out his mother has died and he strums a guitar and sings: ''I don't care if it rains or freezes as long as I have my plastic Jesus sitting on the dashboard of my car...'' I thought of this thread and LOLed a lot! Rev Do-Bad should make some plastic figures of himself for premies to stick to their dash boards--with a wiggly head on a spring. Of course, that would have to be at least $125.00 US! LOLOL! Love, Cynthia

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 16:30:08 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: If it wasn't so obvious Lard would make his figuri Message:

figurines and so much more to get hold of premie's money! I am so content right now to see all for what really is; it gives me such a sense of freedom to know I am out. Yuuhhhhuuuu!!!!! Yea! I won!!!!! ROFL. tHE BASTARD.... I did service two times at Long Beach. I had to get there few days before the opening day event and I saw what I saw. That was the beginning of looking at all as a cult and I didn't wanted to be part of it; it felt morally wrong. I remember looking at the prices and knowing deep inside where the money was going and i remeber getting fisically sick, disgusted, trying to rationalize all to justify maharaji extravagant life, and I couldn't fool myself anymore. A couple of months after the last LB event I fell into a deep depression which now I can see was caused as the other ones I had priorly to a duality Lard's teachings make me experience. In one hand, maharaji taughty me for 25 years who he was and in the other, a maharaji that I understood HE REALLY WAS. He doesn't deserves my love or respect for aproving of what the PAMs are doing, I rememebr thinking. He is in it and well, later I found this site where i found the courage to rebel to him and send him where he belong: He is shit and has no authorithy over me anymore. How fun is it to have this site? Cool! luv to you my dear, SB

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 04:04:55 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: SB Subject: Secret shame Message:

Ok, I must have been in big denial about how much idolatry there was in the '90s. I tried so hard to see it differently, to see the whole thing as much better than it is, to pretend the idolatry wasn't happening. It's a shame that she wasted $600, but more of a shame that her pretend relationship with Rawat poisoned her real relationship with her husband. 'She was concerned with her husband knowing how much she spent.' That sounds like the behavior of a drug addict. When addicted, people often hide their behaviour from others, they feel ashamed and don't want people to know their secret shame. Did you mean lithographs?

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 16:32:57 (GMT) From: sb Email: None To: G Subject: Sorry, yes. That's what I meant to say. :) NT Message:

yes

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 06:18:32 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: G Subject: SB and G, you slay me! LOL thanks, needed it n/t Message:

needed it needed it

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 15:06:56 (GMT) From: Tim G Email: None To: Mercedes Subject: Slainte! nt Message:

Hi Mercedes

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 22:47:21 (GMT) From: Mercedes Email: None To: Tim G Subject: Slainte! ot Message:

Hi Tim, I tried to email you but my server could not deliver the email. Like your web site and I'd love to get one of your CD's. Which one do you recommend and can I buy it from the US? Love Irish music fussed with other music. Slainte!!!! Mercedes

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 23:53:04 (GMT) From: Tim G Email: None To: Mercedes Subject: Slainte! ot Message:

Thanks Mercedes. I'll Email you with the details of how to obtain the album 'Midnight Fry'...my solo album and it has some tracks that are definately Irish as well as being 'World' with contemporary 'beats' My Email address is: timgitti@indigo.ie Send me yours and I'll be in touch Keep enhancing your spoon collection Yours at the Plastic Lotus Slipper Tim

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 01:18:30 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The millennial Master’s amorphous aphorisms Message:

'The peace you are searching for is inside of you.' 'Happiness is not a consequence' Lower down I challenged a premie for examples of statements Maharaji has made which held some ‘value’ for him - the very best examples, if possible. The above insights were proffered by way of evidence. Evidence of what, I am not sure; I can discern neither value nor sense in either. Take 'The peace you are searching for is inside of you.': This time-honoured yet banal truism appears in scriptures ranging from the Vedas to the Bible (‘for the kingdom of heaven is within you…’ etc.). Variants are glibly rehashed in a zillion new-age self-helps as embodying the Deeper Wisdom. Similar scraps and platitudes are routinely tossed from every millionaire Master’s smorgasbord to the undernourished lapdogs at his silk-stockinged feet. It is simply beyond me how anyone could cite this ‘teaching’ as being M’s own, let alone consider it useful or worthy of special note. For one thing, it presumes I/we/everybody is searching, and personal peace is the objective of our search (wrong on both counts in my case). And which natural philospher would care to claim authorship anyway? The sentence is meaningless. Whatever your definition of fulfilment or emotional well-being, you are not going to feel it outside of yourself, are you? A bit like ‘the flavour you crave can only be experienced in your olfactory system’. Big fucking deal. Empty epistle number two ('Happiness is not a consequence') is not only nonsense for anyone who knows a little bit about the psychology or neurochemistry of pleasure and emotion. It is also morally dubious. It would be one thing to say ‘It is sometimes possible to feel happy for no obvious reason’ (Like motherhood and apple-pie, who would disagree?) and something else entirely to hold that such happy states are not a consequence of anything. Whether one’s own past actions or of simple good fortune. Or that this standalone happiness exists beyond the grubby parameters of cause and effect. This latter belief is an attractive delusion, not least for those whose lives are unhappy or unblessed when first encountering the cult. This 'happiness is not a consequence' claim is most easily recited when one is free from chronic pain, hunger or bereavement. Easy indeed to preach when one is adequately clothed and sheltered - when one’s existence has a measure of self-determination and freedom from fear, mental illness or Alzheimers. When one enjoys the love of others or can engage in harmonious social interactions - all the routine caring and sharing stuff you need no guju to enjoy. (It probably makes most sense when one is enjoying the consequences of interesting drugs…) It further implies that although Marge owns a Gulfstream jet plane and a 107-foot yacht – objects which the leisure-loving, unrealised rich might otherwise seek to enhance their personal happiness - the guru may possess these without said possessions affecting his permanent bliss-state one way or the other. (Of course they don’t. Just because you walk like a self-centred, pleasure-seeking playboy and quack like a self-serving, pleasure-seeking playboy, doesn’t ipso facto mean you are pursuing personal pleasure in any size, shape or girly form, does it?) And then the inevitable corollary of ‘'Happiness is not a consequence' would have to be happiness is unaffected by consequences. Again, of one’s own past actions but also of their consequences for the lives of others. You would be unaffected by any lousy luck which might befall you. The grim life episodes and sad sagas of too, too many premies and the effects on folk around them are well-documented and require no further elaboration. The same may be said for M’s happiness being supposedly unaffected by his premies’ misfortunes – all too often as a result of their taking his claims and promises literally (pace this website and its ‘Journeys’ section.) This much at least is true: M’s happiness is surely unaffected by the turbulence stirred up in his wake, be it the children abused by his saints and sadists or the cyclist he killed, and of whose killing he immediately washed his hands. BTW: I was knocked down by two cars simultaneously and almost salamied whilst cycling home on Wednesday night. Stole a wing mirror from both vehicles. And I’m happy to report I that I wasn't killed, am still in one somewhat cut and bruised piece and that my injuries, though very painful, are relatively minor. Both drivers stopped. Had they not stopped I would hold both in the guru-grade contempt they would otherwise deserve. I am especially grateful to the two other passing drivers who also stopped and noted down all the relevant details, made sure I was going to be ok and who also got me home. These are my idea of ‘saints’ - if the word saint has any meaning outside Southampton. And I suggest M’s happiness is not merely enhanced by, but is wholly contingent on the lifestyle, real-estate, luxury toys and elaborate guru-support system he has constructed around himself. That his detachment is not saintly but an indifference which reeks of insatiable greed and self-interest. Numerous former PAM’s have testified as much while not one close contact has reported having known M meditate – not even a teensie-weensie little bit to keep his spirits up between tokes... (And for any premie to assume M’s personal happiness is somehow impervious to financial ruin or social disgrace is to beg the question - at least until one or other apple should happen to fall, God willing…) Happiness is supposedly not a consequence. Therefore to get happy you need both Knowledge and Master. Go figure..! If you fail to get happy that, presumably, is a consequence – but only of your failure to understand happiness. This is no Zen riddle or cool paradox. It is a desperately stupid way of thinking and believing.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 06:24:44 (GMT) From: such Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Thank godness 2 Good Samaritans. Hope you r ok!(nt Message:

nt

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 02:33:53 (GMT) From: Mercedes Email: None To: Nigel Subject: really glad you are okay, thanks. NT Message:

glad you'r okay

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 23:45:43 (GMT) From: PatC Email: None To: Nigel Subject: juicy post as usual. Hope you are being nursed Message:

back to health by a real Florence Nightingale and get better soon.

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 00:59:48 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: PatC Subject: Hmm, well actually.... no comment. (nt ;) Message:

nt

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 13:54:30 (GMT) From: Kev Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Good post Message:

Even when I was a devoted premie I found it hard to get my head around the 'Happiness is not a consequence' thing. Because surely when you did your bit of practise of k the practises in itself was a consequence of your happiness. All was I missing the point somewhere along the line. Just goes to show how easy we can allow ourselves to be fooled. BTW sorry to hear about your accident hope your ok. I was a cyclist myself for many a year and have been knocked over many a time. SIDSY (Sorry I Didn't See You) is the usual saying. But I doubt if m even had the decency to even say that much before he drove off. You also say it happened in Southampton. Are we talking Southampton England? If so you may know me. My full name in Kevin Cornell and I come from Portsmouth. Take care, Kev.

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 22:16:15 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Kev Subject: 'Saints' as in Soton FC. It happened in Liverpool Message:

Hi Kev, The reference was to Southampton, but only to make a pun out of 'saints'. I live up north these days Funnily enough, though, we might have met - though I am vague about many premie names - I might know you by sight or to give satsang to. I was actually an aspirant and premie on the Isle of Wight (where I grew up) through the superdevotional late seventies/early eighties. I made frequent visits to the Portsmouth community, and depending on when you were involved, we might have known many devotees in common. I remember at least half a dozen who moved from the Posrtsmouth or Southampton communities to the island. If you'd like to email, I'll name all the names... Cheers, Nige

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 08:36:23 (GMT) From: Tim G Email: timgitti@indigo.ie To: Nigel Subject: Hi Nigel Message:

Very sorry to hear about your dreadful experience..I hope you recover forthwith. As to the other 'experience' I think you have cogently laid open the kind of vague crap, masquerading as deep insight, that we willingly swallowed. How could we? My music/Art website is at long last published and can be found at : www.timgoulding.com There you can see some vintage photos of Dr Strangely Strange plus some pics of my new band. All the best Tim

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 22:07:25 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.uk To: Tim G Subject: Thanks Tony/Cynth/Fran/Oafie...Hi Tim! (ot) Message:

Nice to see you back on the forum, Tim. I haven't forgotten I promised you feedback on your excellent 'Midnight Fry'. Is it enough for now to say that my best pal and I are playing said album even as I type...? And I mean for pleasure, not just for critical review purposes. Luv those ethnic peat-bog hip-hop moments;) Will check out your website forthwith - the Strangely pics should be interesting. Francesca - I've not forgotten the RT stuff. Hope to get 'em posted this week. Thanks all for concern over my physical health. Basically I couldn't walk for a couple of days, but am hobbling about my hobbit hole quite well today. Reckon I'll be pretty well back to (oddly) normal in a week or so, By His Disgrace. Cheers to all you faraway buddies, Nige

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 03:56:57 (GMT) From: Loaf Email: loafji@yahoo.com To: Nigel Subject: **BEST*BEST** ! (I am very glad you is ok Nigel)NT Message:

Hurrah for the kindness of strangers

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 04:41:08 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Loaf Subject: **BEST*BEST** Ditto -- glad yer OK! n/t Message:

n/t

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 01:54:41 (GMT) From: Tony Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Excellent post nigel.This raises lots Message:

of very interesting points.You have pricked my beliefs in cetain areas.It is interesting how much crap has been brainwashed into a premie over the years.I keep thinking I have gotten rid of most of the shit and thenexes bring up new ways of looking at the whole thing and I realise I have still got lots of layers of sediment still in there>I guess most of my concepts even now are the result of 26 years in the cult.So thanks Nigel for a great post that has undermined some of those concepts. Cheers Tony

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 12:25:31 (GMT) From: Bob Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Happiness is not a consequence Message:

For me this is one of the very, very few times that m. actually said something clear about his methods. It sketches a person artificially uncoupled from the biological stimulus-reward-response cycle of LEARNING. Everything is irrelevant! EVERYTHING IS IRRELEVANT ! Instead we bow down humbly. Happiness is a state of being, dependent on the grace..... No more learning. Inabiity to make conclusions. Just trying day in, day out, to get ourselves in tune with 'grace'. NO MORE LEARNING INABILITY TO MAKE CONCLUSIONS.. Thats what hooked me....

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 20:00:20 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: Bob Subject: Very succinctly put, Bob... Message:

..and your remembered premie-think conclusion rings true to me: EVERYTHING IS IRRELEVANT ! Instead we bow down humbly. Happiness is a state of being, dependent on the grace..... No more learning. Inabiity to make conclusions. Just trying day in, day out, to get ourselves in tune with 'grace'. NO MORE LEARNING INABILITY TO MAKE CONCLUSIONS.. Not least the conclusion that M has a gob full of humbug, eh? (BTW: are you a different 'Bob' from our regular 'Bobby'? Either way, nice post. Cheers)

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Date: Wed, May 09, 2001 at 13:59:53 (GMT) From: Bob Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Bobby?... Message:

Just joined the forum 2 weeks ago. Sometimes forget to use capital B and once made a typo 'Nob' , but no bobby....

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 15:28:55 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Hi Nigel, Great Post/Glad you are okay!!n/t Message:

nt

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 17:49:03 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Everyone Subject: EV's FAQs--Is it or isn't it a RELIGION??? Message:

I was just reading EVs FAQs and noticed this statement under ''What is Knowledge?'' Knowledge, as Maharaji uses the term, refers to a unique possibility of knowing oneself. It is neither a theory, nor a philosophy, nor a religion but is an inner experience. The experience of Knowledge is very personal and is unique for each individual. Bold is my emphasis. Now, how the hell can EV get away with maintaining legal status as a ''religion'' when they state right on their website that it is NOT a religion? I haven't read their FAQs in a while, but this sentence popped right out at me. After Francesca mentioned that EV was receiving donations through United Way, I started wondering how they can continue to have a status as a non-profit organization and especially a religion. What a bunch of shit! How does he get away with this crap? Cynthia

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 17:07:01 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: The IRS think it IS a religion...why not ask them? Message:

Found this in the archives (and thanks, G). Note that it concerns Elan Vital, yet the date - 197112 - implies December 1971? Scroll down to the end to see the 'church' status verified (and consequently the 990PF exemption) And, seriously, Cynthia, I think that at least a few of us (preferably US citizens - after all, it's your taxes that are being affected) should (or at least COULD) write to the IRS requesting the reasons why they consider EV to be a church - when Maharaji's and EV's own websites state precisely the opposite. Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 01:16:42 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: bill Subject: Info on Elan Vital from IRS web site Message: From http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/plain/tax_stats/soi/ex_imf.html Tax Statistics - Tax Exempt / Employee Plans Statistics - States - California Extracted from file eo_ca.exe: Employer Identification Number (EIN): 237174539 (assigned by IRS to identify an account) Primary Name of Organization: ELAN VITAL INC In Care of Name: blank (party (officer, director, etc.) to whose attention any correspondence should be directed) Street Address: PO BOX 6130 City: MALIBU State: CA Zip Code: 90264-6130 Group Exemption Number: 0000 (internal # assigned to central/parent orgs holding group determination letters) Affiliation Code: 3 (Independent) Subsection Code: 03 Classification Code(s): 1___ (Charitable Organization) Ruling Date: 197112 Deductibility Code: 1 (Contributions are deductible) Foundation Code: 10 (Church) Activity Codes: 059 001 000 (Other school related activities; Church, synagogue, etc; -) Organization Code: 1 (Corporation) District of Jurisdiction: 95 (IRS District Office) Advance Ruling Expiration Date: 000000 Tax Period: ______ Asset Code: 0 Income Code: 0 Filing Requirement Code: 060 (Not required to file (church); No 990PF return) Blanks: ___ Accounting Period: 12 (accounting period ending date (MM)) Asset Amount: blank Income Amount: blank National Taxonomy of Exempt Entities (NTEE) Code: blank Sort Name (Secondary Name Line): blank

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 19:00:04 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: cq Subject: I will ask them... Message:

Thanks, cq, I've copied the information down and I will write to them and also refer them to the EV website which says it is NOT a religion. For that matter, what charity does EV donate to other than the big, one and only FATRAT? Love, Cynthia

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 06:13:43 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Cynthia and everyone Subject: re my 'confession' thread below Message:

Cynthia: Was shredding some old banking records in the garage today (I'm a bug on identity theft, which did happen to one of my co-workers, probably from her trash) and located the 1994 letter from United Way. It said that I had donated $36 to 'North American Sponsorship Program.' (I also had stuff from that year that mentioned Convenant House, Salvation Army, Loaves and Fishes, etc.) That was $36 to the URUG UGH for the whole year, so I split my small monthly United Way donation between a lot of charities. But I just wanted to clarify what entity the donation was made to. Also, the letter said that 'We hope you will continue to support no-for-profit organizations.' It says that United Way was 'proud to serve as the conduit for your donations ...' I saved that letter and the first letter I found in case there's ever any use for it. It has one use. To show me what a fool I am! love, f

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 23:48:29 (GMT) From: donner Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: EV's FAQs--Is it or isn't it a RELIGION??? Message:

hi, i do not know how ev is registered dlm use to be registered as a 501 c3 a not for profit organization not a church at least as i remember it...a 501 c3 is eligible for tax deductible donations. a church can be registered within a 501 c3 but that is a sub category and separate filling...more difficult to obtain and maintain. but i have no idea what ev is registered as. so only fyi here. pretty dated info that i have.

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 15:04:46 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: donner Subject: Religions, Charities.... Message:

Hi, It's pretty easy to obtain 501(c3) status as a non-profit. Annual reports are required to report finances, donations, etc., especially if any state or federal funds are obtained through grants. Even if EV isn't registered as a religion, they still get tax free status because they are a non-profit organization, which really galls me. Even if you put away the word ''cult'' for a second (just a second--smile), the question arises: what the hell do they do for anybody except Maharaji? I'm sure it's set up by the lawyers in a slick way which allows them to get away with retaining their status. Yet what sector of society does this not-for-profit organization serve? None, because it is a cult. The only recipient of the donations is Maharaji and his family. The nerve! Cynthia

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 00:57:31 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: The nonprofit thing is a sore spot Message:

Cynthia: Definitely true that the nonprofit thing is a sore spot. I did research EV, at least in a cursory way (I responded to Chuck Sprague in my 'confession' thread below you referred to) and did not see them listed with the California Attorney General's Office as either a charity or a church corporation. They were listed on the Secretary of State's website as a corporation, but like Donner pointed out, they could be a 501(c)(3) nonprofit for tax purposes -- they don't have the whole corporate filings online, just some very basic information. United Way was (at least back in the early 90's) allowing you to designate any nonprofit. In our designation book, for example, was a local nonprofit Latino art gallery 'La Raza Gallery.' So if you picked any other nonprofit, they were cool with that, because they still get to take their 10-15 percent (I forget now) administrative fees off the top. But nonprofit status is a real shell game. There are ways to play with the books, move money around or even legally call organizations nonprofits that pay their officers and staff absolutely outrageous salaries. So it's a nonprofit, yeah, but those who work for it profit hansomely. Paid professional fundraisers is another ripoff. In the Attorney General's report on charities every year you can find many professional fundraising efforts (even for local organizations such as police athletic leagues) where the fundraiser made more money than the charity. Sometimes a lot more, percentage wise. Even if it is 50-50, that means that for every dollar you gave to that campaign, 50 cents of it went in a professional fundraiser's pocket. Many nonprofits and charities really stink -- it's a real scam. In the case of Rawat, it's an outrage. I think the only way he pulls it off is a major shell game, as people have pointed out, with the legal money going where it has to and shares in corporations or companies being given to him, and all sorts of other support being given by the truly brainwashed. Unfortunately, a fool and his money are soon parted, and I know that I have been a big fool, even though I've never had much money. But I'd love to know if what they are doing is legal. Generally speaking the problem is that there is so much abuse out there and so little enforcement that it takes something really egregious to get the government to do anything about it. Government usually won't investigate anything without practically being handed a smoking gun (unless, of course, they have their own agenda for why they are investigating). It's a mess, I'm sure. --f

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 22:53:14 (GMT) From: Gregg Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: great point, C. Message:

It's even more grating than Scientology, for example, which claims to be a religion for tax purposes, and is one for all practical purposes (if a cult is a religion, anyway), but at least has always refrained from using words like God and Lord, unlike some cults I could name.

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 23:50:40 (GMT) From: donner Email: None To: Gregg Subject: great point, C. Message:

i wonder if ev could be a church...or some group could be a church without claiming to be a religion? probably there is some distinction between a church and religion..some lawyer could probably make some case about that. smile

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 03:05:38 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The two basic purposes of cults.... Message:

According to Margaret Singer, who has written extensively on cults: Cults basically have only two purposes: recruiting new members and fundraising. Established religions and altruistic movements may also recruit and raise funds. Their sole purpose, however, is not simply to grow larger and wealthier; such groups have as goals bettering the lives of their members or humankind in general, either in this world or in a world to come. A cult may claim to make social contributions, but in actuality these remain mere claims or gestures. In the end, all work and all funds, even token gestures of altruism, serve the cult. Cults seem to have no end to their unconscionable behaviours and their capacity to abuse their followers.

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 08:22:48 (GMT) From: Mr. Mind Email: None To: la-ex Subject: The two basic purposes of cults.... Message:

The same things could be said about any Multi Level Marketing or Network Marketing Group....money flows up and shit flows down

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Date: Fri, May 04, 2001 at 20:24:22 (GMT) From: SloeBurn Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Golden Toilets? Message:

I have seen several references to golden toilets. Is this a verified thing.. I mean in the literal sense? I went to the EV website today and did some reading too. One thing I noted was the multiple times they said stuff like the only thing you can be sure about with M. is that he will always do something unexpected. You know that would be a great manipulation techinique. First brainwash your sheep and make them rely on you totally, then keep them in a constant state of fatigue wondering 'what comes next' not offering any stability. That is the tactic that many men use who beat their wives. Take away their self esteem and ability to provide for themselves then keep them off balance all the time with unpredictable behaviour. Actually I was thinking it seemed like a great buildup for him to make some drastic changes. They can always point back to the 'unpredictable' nature and say well that's M for ya.. always keeping you on your toes. Nothing like a Lord that can't make up his mind.

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 02:58:58 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: SloeBurn Subject: a few observations on charismatic cult leaders... Message:

From 'Comprehending Cults',by Lorne Dawson, on strategies used by charismatic cult leaders to preserve their authority... 1-to keep followers off balance and their attention on the words and wishes of the leader, they may alter the doctrines and policies of the cult, sometimes very suddenly. The shifts have a levelling effect that reasserts the superiority of the leader to his own followers. The shift also forces some of the old guard to the margins of the movement while elevating new people to the inner circle of devotees. 2-Cult leaders need to seek constant reaffirmation of the loyalty of the followers. This leads to an escalation of the demands they place on members for personal service and scarifice to them. 3-They demonize their enemies, whether real or imagined. By condemning acts of others, they can divert attention from their own failings and provide a convenient excuse for the group's troubles. 4-They may as a last resort, change the location and the operating environment to a more isolated spot, and attempt to regain more devotion.

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 15:21:33 (GMT) From: Mercedes Email: None To: la-ex Subject: a few observations on charismatic cult leaders... Message:

4-They may as a last resort, change the location and the operating environment to a more isolated spot, and attempt to regain more devotion. Amaroo cames to mind!!!!

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 02:46:02 (GMT) From: Joy Email: None To: SloeBurn Subject: Yes, It's For Real--Golden Toilets and Then Some Message:

Yes, Sloeburn, it really is true. Gold-plated toilets. The degree of elaborateness and care taken in his 'residences' (and planes and yachts I presume) is beyond belief. Everyone is trying desperately to do things absolutely perfectly for their Lord and he demands a degree of perfection from these people which is unheard of in the real world. He has hundreds, literally hundreds, of unpaid servants waiting on him and his households day and night. The opportunity to do this kind of direct 'service' is very sought after in the premie world. It's a great honor to do the laundry or even the laundry of the people doing the laundry, believe it or not. The fanatical devotion and attention to detail put into this is difficult to describe. I once had the 'service' of picking pine needles up off his driveway in Malibu. Not just ordinary sweeping, mind you, actually picking them up one by one lest not a single one remain and it look absolutely immaculate. This type of fanatical detail is demanded by him of every aspect of his environment and he has a batallion of willing slaves waiting to comply. Years of this type of striving for perfection has had somewhat of an effect on the rest of my life. I tend to do projects with a degree of care for how they look and feel which I would no way have had had I not done service for all those years in that environment. This can be a good thing in that it translates into a quality of product not often seen and can help you sell your services, whatever they may be (in my case, graphics). But I can assure you, the stories of gold plated toilets are true, and then some.

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 03:19:30 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Joy Subject: Joy, attention to detail Message:

You've made an important point about doing things with attention to detail. I think many of us who performed actions in M's proximity were compelled to do those things 'perfectly'. We had a reason to do things impeccably and, regardless of the recipient's worthiness, he was the focus of that impeccability. Some of the best graphic design work I have ever done was to help M in his work. In doing so, I learned a skill and adopted a level of responsibility that I profit from today. I'm sure many of my clients respond to the care I put into my work. That said, it was me and us that brought the level of attention to detail and gave it to m's service because we truly believed he was worthy of it. That is precisely why the Big Donors give and the service freaks keep on doing service (participate). It is perhaps the only time they feel that they are doing something worthwhile. The programming is deep to attribute all that to M but he's worked hard to keep them roped in. As an old time upper level guy from IHQ days said after seeing M in Long Beach after 20 years: 'Well, Maharaji is certainly the complete manifestation of himself'.

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 10:50:01 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Richard Subject: Attention to detail -- but missing the point Message:

What always amazed me about DLM and Elan Vital operations was this fanatic attention to detail, but somehow the bigger picture was completely lost; sort of the inability to see the forest for the trees. Things just never seem to actually work. Plus, it has the effect of making the premies look like robots. So, for example, great attention will be given to the latest propagation scheme, this time through training videos and DVDs, but this will all be for naught, as Maharaji and the PWKs will not address the fact that most premies are embarrassed to tell people they are premies, they are embarrassed of, and unable to explain to a normal person, Maharaji's megalomania nor even how he fits into the cult. This is all heightened by the internet and the dissemination of Maharaji's failings as a master, a father, a husband and a human being. Maharaji's modus operandi has always been fanatic, anal attention to detail, and this ridiculous impeccability requirement, but he no clue whatsoever about why it never actually works.

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 21:24:40 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Joe Subject: Denial aint just a river in Egypt....nt Message:

nn

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 16:37:09 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Joe Subject: It's like trying to spit shine shit. Message:

or like starting off with ingredients, some of them rotten, and trying to make a good dish out of them. It doesn't matter how good the recipe is, how much you spice it up, or how good the presentation, the rotten flavor will come through. I saw this happen when bringing someone to an introductory video. During the second video I could sense her recoiling from the stench, she could sense something was wrong. The video's superficial message, slick graphics and overproduction could not cover it up. She learned another meditation instead - for free - from someone who didn't ask her to follow him. I could not honestly advise her not to do that. The was a major drip for me, for I knew that I sensed the same stench. One thing was a ticking clock and a heavy intense feeling. There was an underlying, implied, hidden message that 'I (who call myself 'Maharaji') can save you, this is your last and only chance and your time is running out because you are going to die and then that's end of story, finito. So you had better be scared shitless, do whatever I say, and beg me out of desperation to 'show you Knowledge'. Then and only then will you have everlasting life.' This is the same garbage that fundamentalists (of any sort) dump on people. It's disgusting. How ironic that he fosters the very fear and guilt that he claims to free people from. It's an illusory trick, first he triggers a feeling of guilt and fear, then he triggers a feeling of relief, then guilt and fear again, then relief again, ... This is not a fun merry-go-round to be on. It's presided over by a sadistic clown. Better to get off.

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 18:06:07 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: G Subject: ***BEST OF*** Forum - G's analysis spot on Message:

Thanks, G, for the following: . . . 'I (who call myself 'Maharaji') can save you, this is your last and only chance and your time is running out because you are going to die and then that's end of story, finito. So you had better be scared shitless, do whatever I say, and beg me out of desperation to 'show you Knowledge'. Then and only then will you have everlasting life.' This is the same garbage that fundamentalists (of any sort) dump on people. It's disgusting. How ironic that he fosters the very fear and guilt that he claims to free people from. It's an illusory trick, first he triggers a feeling of guilt and fear, then he triggers a feeling of relief, then guilt and fear again, then relief again, ... This is not a fun merry-go-round to be on. It's presided over by a sadistic clown. Better to get off.

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 20:32:34 (GMT) From: Roger eDrek Email: drek@oz.net To: G Subject: STENCH: Something's stinking in L.A. - Jiva (nt) Message:

adsf

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 16:25:44 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Joe Subject: Attention to detail -- but missing the point Message:

True Joe. I liken the gathering of creative talents to WPA days when the country's best artisans and craftsmen created enduring works of art (Coit Tower murals, etc) just for the sake of renewing America's post-Depression spirit and NOT for FDR's glory. In 'doing service', the actual creative process itself was valid but the focus was misappropriated - and still is. And so often, as you point out, the effort is wasted like the WPA digging ditches just to fill them up again. Wasted effort like getting invitations to India or Amaroo a day or two before or even after the event. Hundreds of person hours and thousands of dollars wasted. No legitimate business could survive that ineptness. One major benefit I derived from my efforts was learning a trade and a style of work that I still profit from. Many others were not so fortunate. And it goes without saying that M was the major beneficiary of those efforts.

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 18:36:40 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Richard Subject: getting invitations a day or two after the event Message:

Many organizations do this because of the first-class mail v bulk mailing scheme. You're involved in other non profits, so you know the deal. In one organization I was in, the dues paying members get information sent first-class. People who don't contribute but are retained on the list are sent their information bulk mail, which is cheaper. When it's time-dated material, it's absolutely stupid to send it at all. However, if you are getting invitations to programs two days late, it shows you are doing something REALLY right. You've stopped contributing for long enough that they've bounced you to bulk mail. That's probably why they wanted people to sign up by e-mail. I tried once, but when it didn't work, I decided I didn't want it anyway. I recently asked them to be taken off their mailing list, because frankly, I find out enough about what he's doing and saying to make me hurl, right herre on the forum. Love ya, f (who wants an EV and M free mailbox)

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 16:17:37 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Joe Subject: Rush, Rush, Stop, Stop, Change, Change.... Message:

Hi Joe, I've seen this pattern over and over in the Maharajism cult. Everything in flux and/or reorganization, causing premies great stress. It's always been this way. My mind would tell me 'what the fuck?' what was wrong with the way we did things YESTERDAY? But that ole lila programming and guru worship negated any thinking or questioning because to do so would put me or any premie at great risk of either being called crazy or bongo, or, even worse, losing a position that brought me close to m physically--the ultimate goal of a true believer. The gold toilets is one small example of how much m thinks he is entitled to have. A perfect example is the 707 project because so many premies were together in one place and he had the power over us (his frequent presence there) and he used it to make unbelievable demands. He'd come into the design room and just trash hand drawings someone had just spent all night working on at his request! This period of time was long before any computerized architectural programs so it was very intense. We accepted this because of our embedded programming and beliefs he was the true living lord. Then he'd move on to another place in the complex and do the same to other premies. Tragically, we though he was making us humble, when in fact, he was humiliating us. Quite a difference. M loves to micro-manage projects until everything, as he loves to say, is ''impeccable.'' Then he takes credit for doing the work. He believes he a genious when in reality he depends upon the talents of others. One of my drips was in the late 90's when he stated playing the keyboard and bragging in his speaks that he ''composed'' music. Well, big fucking deal. Who can't compose music if they have state of the art computer technology--it has nothing to do with talent. Now, as at Amaroo, he performs! It's so, so weird I could puke. I did learn how to do things with more attention to detail and quality, but that isn't necessarily a balanced way of doing things either. My husband had to teach me how to slow down when I work on projects because he would see how stressed out I'd get because I always hurried. He'd tell me that I'm missing the experience and joy of making something beautiful--artwork, writing--even something as simple as a nice dinner or mundane as cleaning my house. It's taken years, but Tom has reminded me again and again to slooow down, Cynthia, there's no race going on here! Perfectionism is also a symptom of alcoholism. Put that together with meglomania and what a mess of a person! Love, Cynthia

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Date: Tues, May 08, 2001 at 16:18:33 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: great post, Cynthia - especially liked this:.. Message:

great post, Cynthia - and this I found very relatable: 'Tragically, we thought he was making us humble, when in fact, he was humiliating us. Quite a difference'. Too true, too f***'ing tragically true. Having true humility of spirit (a quality allied to generosity, I think?) CANNOT be equated with the consequences of the bullying that M so often used to get his own way (still does? - well it worked for him in the past, and who's to tell if he's changed?) Being humiliated is a pretty damn shabby alternative to finding true humility in yourself. Shame that the likes of the Maha continues to profit from that kind of misunderstanding. When will premies start to think these things out for themselves ???

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 21:04:21 (GMT) From: Richard Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Rush, Rush, Stop, Stop, Change, Change.... Message:

True Cynthia - the manic methodic madness does not neccessarily equal concious action and fulfillment. It is very important to stop to smell the roses, not obsess over removing the thorns (as our mutual good friend has done / does faithfully).

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 18:50:19 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Yes, yes, a 'simon-sez' religion Message:

Cynthia: Your whole post was a treasure, but this particularly rung for me: I've seen this pattern over and over in the Maharajism cult. Everything in flux and/or reorganization, causing premies great stress. It's always been this way. My mind would tell me 'what the fuck?' what was wrong with the way we did things YESTERDAY? But that ole lila programming and guru worship negated any thinking or questioning ... I felt like I'd been herded around and told things were different so many times that I'd run out of the resilience to continue being bounced around like that. The guilty part of me thought I was inflexible. Then once I started getting disinvolved I was able to see that every time I tapped in with the premies, there was always a new revision, a new way to do things, changing the techniques, changing this, changing that. I ceased to care. It was then that the drip hit the top of my crown chakra that told me this was a 'simon sez' religion because it was a messianic cult. M was the leader. There was no other. Everything he said, we did, or you were off the boat. So for the 2nd time, I said 'ship ahoy.' ('Ship ahoy' was our motto when we Bhole Ji's band members became monmots in the mid-70s.) I just didn't care any more. Like you, I could see anything wrong with the way things were. I questioned his judgment. I saw that it was all for the purpose of manipulation and getting people to obey, for no purpose whatsoever. But to question that, was to question his handle on his mission--bringing peace to the world, and propagation. (How I hate that word, it conjures up images or artificially inseminating cows or something.) And question it, I did. I decided he was a rudderless ship himself, a purposeless bag of wind teaching people nothing that they couldn't find out in many other ways, for a minimum of pain and effort. All of his changes wasted so much resources and effort. Like my neighbors that went through a phase for several years of remodelling their house and relandscaping their yard. Over and over. A lot of work. A lot of money. A lot of stress. For what??? Also, your insights into the workings of Decca and the 707 project are invaluable. There are many people here besides Dettmers and Donner, that are filling us in on the inner workings of the cult, and you are one of them. Love from Northern California, f

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 21:33:50 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Francesca Subject: Ship Ahoy! Message:

Hi Francesca, When I write about DECA lately I wonder what happend to all those premies who slaved there. It would be wonderful if others would come forward to write about their experiences there. It was a place where nothing mattered except what he wanted. Period. No questions, no debates, no discussions. Because he came to that place so often it placed all the more pressure on everyone. I remember his saying it was a pressure cooker for the mind--can you imagine? What an idiot. When I started there at the small place in Hialeah, we were still using typewriters and the fax machine was the type that burned images onto a large cylinder and sent them to where ever he was. Without any air conditioning, the photocopier was constantly breaking down and if he decided to arrive (expecting the reports we were preparing for him) we'd have to kick the repairman out because 'the client' was enroute. So bizarre. And he was always ''the client.'' Secrets and lies. It was a slave-labor camp and everyone was expendible. Chills me when I think about it now. The Amaroo site and what happens there is also chilling to me because it's so isolated. I'm starting to wonder if Rev Do-Bad is losing his marbles big time. I'll bet he was furious that more people didn't go to Amaroo. HAHAHA! I could just imagine his rage. Now he's having skits on stage, performing himself--weird, weird, YUCK! When I tried to go back to the booger in 1997, NO ONE would talk about it. It was absolutely a non-topic...DRIP... I remembered something this week. When I got burnt out to the point of being transferred out of Miami, I almost got sent to San Francisco--but they sent me to Gainesville instead. I've never been to the west coast in my life. I've never seen the Pacific Ocean. Maybe in the future... Be well, Love, Cynthia

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 02:40:03 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Ship Ahoy! Message:

Do you know G Sommer?

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 23:56:11 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: Yes, if DECCA slaves are lurking Message:

Cynthia: If DECCA slaves are lurking, it would be good if they came forward. I'm glad Carl came forward with his own stories of Bhole Ji's band and the family split. He's on vacation, but he'll return to hopefully post some more. I'm from Connecticut originally. Ended up in California in 1970 or 71 and essentially lived there except for 1973-74 premie stuff in Boston and Atlanta (Soul Rush and Apostles Band). Both coasts are nice, I think! love, f

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 07:54:02 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: Francesca Subject: Did you two know- Message:

I remember Tom and Katja Bossola went to decca in 1980. Did you know them? It was sad, their marriage broke up soon afterwards. Had two adorable little boys, Toby and Owen. I wonder what ever happened to them. Be cool you two, love your posts, Tonette

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Date: Mon, May 07, 2001 at 01:01:55 (GMT) From: Francesca Email: None To: Tonette Subject: I didn't know them but Message:

that's really sad. As Cynthia said, many marriages broke up. I know there was a giant sucking sound as many of the ashram premies and community premies with certain skills were transferred or went to Miami in droves. There was always this sense of urgency, this gotta do it now thing. Really sad, with two little kids involved. Children of cults -- that is a whole other, horrible thing. Of course, being a Catholic child wasn't easy either, but at least they don't tell families to break up!!! Love, f

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 15:35:50 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Tonette Subject: Did you two know- Message:

Hi Tonette, I don't remember Tom and Katja. At one point I knew everyone, but once the project moved to the big complex there were so many premies there it's difficult to remember them all. Depends on where they worked--what they did, too. I know a lot of premies divorced during that time, and it's very sad. Love, Cynthia

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 17:03:58 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: A strange dance, eh? Message:

Here's another contradiction, if everything is so 'impeccable', then why all the change? And he asks people to believe that they screwed up, even though they did what he told them. Like the recent mocking of EV and pwkies at Amaroo. He pretends that he doesn't have anything to do with EV's weirdness, when really he's the major cause of it. Sometimes it's inappropriate to make certain things 'impeccable'. The problem is that there are only 24 hours in a day, you can't make everything 'impeccable'. This obsessiveness goes against having a balanced lifestyle and is actually quite harmful. We need to sense how much time and care is warrented and when something is 'good enough'. Yes, composing mediocre music is no biggie, even without a computer. Many many people can put together a simple tune that follows a few simple rules of music and so doesn't sound completely awful. Yet he writes a little so-so unmemorable music and thinks he's another Beethoven. Oy Vey!. No Rawat, you're far below the Saliari character in the movie Amadeus. (Of course the real Saliari wasn't like that but that's not the point.) You struggle just to put together a little mediocrity, you are the patron saint of mediocrity.

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Date: Fri, May 04, 2001 at 21:08:31 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: SloeBurn Subject: Golden Toilets? Message:

Sloeburn, The reason Maharaji is allowed to get away with anything is so you don't have to concern yourself with proper ethics. After all, the only thing that matters is the 'experience'. If the master behaves in a questionable manner, and you're called upon to bring him to task for it, that might jeopardize your 'experience'. And that's no fun. So, you get this little feature in the program called 'lila' you can execute anytime the experience is threatened. Works out nice if you can buy into it. As for the gold toilets, that's what I've heard too. Must be for all those little gold hamster droppings.

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 01:40:07 (GMT) From: Mr Bubblehead Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Golden Twats Message:

Hey friendly Jerry, I suppose we learn the most from the more difficult relationships we have, eg, marriage or your guru (especially marriage), 'cause you just can't ignore them hey, and if you accept that life is a learning experience and everyone is our teacher, then in the long run, it's all for the greater good. My last missive to you was deleted by the resident gestapo. I tell ya, it ain't easy being a bubble in a world full of pricks. Bye Mr Bubblehead

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 01:51:32 (GMT) From: gerry Email: None To: Mr Bubblehead Subject: Golden showers? Message:

Mr B, What's gotten into you? You OK?

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 06:24:16 (GMT) From: Mr B Email: None To: gerry Subject: Golden showers? Message:

Hi Gerry, I'm doin' it a bit tough of late, but life is still reasonably beaut. Do I sound different or something? HAd a few bubbles burst but there's always more a forming. Cya

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Date: Fri, May 04, 2001 at 23:43:09 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Golden Toilets--Yes, it's true... Message:

Oh yes, he has had at least one golden toilet I know of. Gold plated for the 707 plane (got to minimize the payload, you see). Maybe he thinks he shits gold, but if he did that, he wouldn't need to steal from his followers. Yes, he thinks he deserves everything and anything he wants because he is the LARD, after all, nothing but the best. Even if he doesn't have to go out, get a job and earn the luxuries that have been showered upon him at our expense. Maharaji is nothing but a big time loser and user. Not to mention a BIG FAT LIAR, too. Best, Cynthia

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Date: Fri, May 04, 2001 at 19:44:42 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Everyone Subject: 'Maharaji's words vary and his message evolves' Message:

'Maharaji's words vary and his message evolves' - quote from EV's (updated?) site. - evolves? Well, it certainly makes u-turns ... how long is it (months?) since EV's site proudly proclaimed that 'Maharaji's message has never changed'? perhaps that's explained by a quote from him on today's EV newsletter 'let's light the candles to make the room a little dark.' (yes, he's quoted as actually saying that!) . . . Here are some more discrepancies: Maharaji certainly presents something of an enigma. He is not a religious teacher. He says that what he teaches is practical not spiritual, yet it provides an experience of the true self. He says he is an ordinary human being, no different from anybody else, yet his gatherings often trigger a degree of enthusiasm and respect which to a neutral onlooker could justifiably be interpreted as adulation. EV's website. An ordinary human being, no different from anybody else? I guess we're all Masters then. Following Maharaji’s teaching is a personal process and in no way requires involvement with any particular group or organization. Each individual may therefore pursue this teaching without associating with or supporting Elan Vital. And HOW do you get the 'knowledge' without associating with EV? . . . And from the 'Master's' own website: 'One thing that has always been very clear to me is that you can't sell Knowledge. After all, this is a very personal experience, something that can only be justified or verified by each individual. Not everyone shared the same feeling. Quite a few people wanted to see me as a figurehead. I didn't want to be one and I am not one. A few others saw me as a leader, and I didn't want to be one and I am not one.' Thank you, 'Master'. . . . (oh, and incidentally, has anyone wondered why - on the 'journey' section of his own website, he refers to his own father, Shri Hans, as his 'Father' always with a capital F? (and no, it's not always at the beginning of a sentence). Hmmmmm? Any ideas? Perhaps the Maha thinks of himself not as God, just as the son of God?

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Date: Fri, May 04, 2001 at 21:29:32 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: cq Subject: Good observations! Message:

EV talking: 'Brainwashing works: TRY IT!!! WE DID.' That brought a laugh CQ. Thanks. (maharaji is a total idiot.)

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Date: Fri, May 04, 2001 at 09:32:35 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Upcoming events in Europe Message:

Maharaji has accepted invitations to speak at the following events in Europe: Versailles - France : May 26 - 27 This event is for people who have received the techniques of Knowledge only. Due to the limited capacity of the hall, the event is only for people from France and Belgium. Barcelona - Spain : June 1 - 2 The event on the 1st of June is an Introductory event. This event is for people who have received the techniques of Knowledge, people already interested in Knowledge, and for guests who have already been introduced to Knowledge and would like to know more. Due to the size of the hall is intended only for people from Spain. The event on the 2nd June is for people who have received the techniques of Knowledge and those interested in receiving the techniques of Knowledge. Due to the limited capacity of the hall, this event is only for people from Spain. Lisbon - Portugal : June 10 This event is an Introductory event for people who have received the techniques of Knowledge, people already interested in Knowledge, and for guests who have already been introduced to Knowledge and would like to know more. This event is primarily for people from Portugal and Galicia, Spain, but it is expected there will be some room for people from other regions of Spain. Nottingham - UK : June 16 - 17 - 30th Anniversary celebration This event is for people who have received the techniques of Knowledge and those interested in receiving the techniques of Knowledge. This event is primarily for people from the UK and Ireland, but it is expected that there will be enough room for people from other countries within the European region. Rome - Italy : June 23 - 24 This event is for people who have received the techniques of Knowledge and those interested in receiving the techniques of Knowledge This event is primarily for people from Italy, Italian part of Switzerland, Greece, Israel, Slovenia, Serbia, Croatia and other neighboring countries but it is expected that there will be enough room for people from other countries within the European region. Geneva - Switzerland : June 30 - July 1 This event is for people who have received the techniques of Knowledge and those interested in receiving the techniques of Knowledge. This event is primarily for people from Switzerland and nearby region (Germany, Austria, France and Italy) but it is expected that there will be enough room for people from other countries within the European region. Mainz - Germany : July 7 - 8 This event is for people who have received the techniques of Knowledge and those interested in receiving the techniques of Knowledge. This event is primarily for people from Germany and the surrounding countries but it is expected that there will be enough room for people from other countries within the European region. All seats need to be reserved in advance of the event. Detailed event information sheets, including registration, translation and accommodation information will be available in a few days.

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Date: Sat, May 05, 2001 at 08:57:19 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: and more gossip ! Message:

from David Mankoff : This event may not be confirmed as of yet, but is slated for July 28 & 29th in Worcester, Massachusetts. 'Now is the time to go for the Gusto' he said ... 'I ate at Daya's restaurant each night ($1500.00 package) and how Wadi was there with her new boyfriend and M's boys were at the bar.' ..... Next event in Miami is supposed to be just like the one in Portland. First day is four new foundation videos with an area set up for getting videos and learning about propagation. The second day is a K review and simutaneously there is a meeting with Aspirants. M comes on and speaks at 5.

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Date: Sun, May 06, 2001 at 08:04:01 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: he needs money Message:

otherwise he wouldn't be trolling so much!

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Date: Fri, May 04, 2001 at 12:53:27 (GMT) From: Bob Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Upcoming events in Europe Message:

From here I cannot be sure But there seems to be a pattern: Starting in smaller size halls and then slowly moving up to larger auditoriums. A frequency of gatherings higher than usual. This looks to me like the typical pattern of a staged comeback! Better follow this carefully so we can do something about it!!

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Date: Fri, May 04, 2001 at 22:19:35 (GMT) From: Mr. Mind Email: None To: Bob Subject: A re-occurring pattern of behavior Message:

I think that he's just reving up the old money machine engine again. Turn it up, make his cult members think things are finally happening and then kick back for awhile again. This seems to be the long term pattern of his behavior. and on and on and on......

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