Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 16:11:06 (GMT)
From: Feb 26, 2001 To: Mar 07, 2001 Page: 4 Of: 5


Cynthia -:- Captain Rawat: Liar of all Liars -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 00:27:33 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Maharaji/Charanand/Abortion -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 19:31:12 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Maharaji/Charanand/Abortion -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 20:31:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Maharaji/Charanand/Abortion -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 01:29:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ Connie -:- Dreams turned to ashes -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:14:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ janet -:- secrets kill. out the father and fuck the storm -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 22:58:56 (GMT)
__ New-Age Redneck -:- Superb post, Cynthia! -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 17:09:17 (GMT)
__ Marianne -:- Captain Rawat: Liar of all Liars -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 15:23:44 (GMT)
__ Patrick (formerly Anon) -:- Free the slaves! 'Gloria in excelsis Omnes!' -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 15:07:45 (GMT)
__ __ Bin Liner -:- Bravo Patrick , that made me weep too -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 01:54:37 (GMT)
__ __ Been There -:- Free the slaves! (Dying parents) -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 20:33:40 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- 'Gloria in excelsis Omnes!' Hallelujah and amen -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:15:11 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- To Patrick (formerly Anon) and everyone... -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 17:18:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- and I will always be grateful to you, Cynthia -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:17:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- You're a sweetie, Pat Conlon, a big hug (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:51:31 (GMT)
__ __ la-ex -:- Paatrick, Great Post! Heartfelt,wonderful...nt -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 15:39:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- Yes, a very moving post, well said ...nt -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 16:58:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ Happy -:- Great post! -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 16:57:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Great posts Cynthia and Patrick -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 20:35:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Postie -:- Cynthia and PatAnon - thanks for the intensity! nt -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:22:25 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- WOW, Cynthia! I've got tears in my eyes. -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:41:57 (GMT)
__ Brian Smith -:- Captain Rawat: Liar of all Liars / WOW -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 03:03:30 (GMT)
__ Barry -:- Good stuff Cynthia! Let it out! -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 01:36:49 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- i'll take one.I'll pulverize the fucker -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 02:52:50 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- Lord Bufflebutt--Punch Him Out! -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 02:12:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ Barry -:- OK then! I'll let all know when it's done.(nt) -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:38:05 (GMT)

Disculta -:- My Personal Holocaust - postcard from the edge -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 21:26:00 (GMT)
__ Babs -:- So much stuff. Who'da Thunk. -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 02:37:11 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Revealing the techniques cuts the cord - oh Sandy! -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 07:06:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ la-ex -:- Babs+Pat-I agree about techniques.. -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 15:58:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- If M were honest he'd put himself out of business -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:06:24 (GMT)
__ __ Connie -:- So much stuff, oh yeah -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 03:00:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- That old black magic has me in it's spell -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 07:09:28 (GMT)
__ __ Disculta -:- So much stuff. Who'da Thunk. -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 02:45:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ Postie -:- Amazing story - so much stuff indeed! -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:31:17 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Thanks --- Anger is good -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 22:16:32 (GMT)
__ __ Disculta -:- Thanks --- Anger is good -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 02:51:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Lunch -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 03:52:35 (GMT)

G -:- The weight of the world -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 17:00:39 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Doesn't it seem there were two groups? -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 17:06:54 (GMT)

Jim -:- Oh my god! Was Katie right? -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 16:27:35 (GMT)
__ CD -:- look in the mirror -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 19:37:06 (GMT)
__ __ bill -:- do you still tithe?-nt -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 04:24:08 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- Well here's food for your cognitive teeth.. -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 16:27:16 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Hey, man, that was your OUT. Too bad for u! -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 00:48:28 (GMT)
__ __ Barry -:- Hey CD! Do you like the Doors? OT -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:47:57 (GMT)
__ __ New-Age Redneck -:- look in the mirror -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:30:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- hi!! -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:19:08 (GMT)
__ Cw -:- You confirm my opinion of you Jim -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 02:49:35 (GMT)
__ Barry -:- CD! Is this true? -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 19:56:28 (GMT)
__ __ salam -:- CD! Is this true? -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 15:42:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ CD -:- CD NE CW -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 20:22:25 (GMT)

Way -:- The death of little Samuel -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 16:16:49 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- The death of little Samuel -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 18:38:21 (GMT)
__ __ Robyn -:- The death of little Samuel -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 03:52:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sean -:- ex-cult members -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:07:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- ex-cult members -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 10:03:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sean -:- Very true!(nt) -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 12:41:07 (GMT)

Way -:- 80,000 receive darshan -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 15:55:19 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Lies -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 19:20:32 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Who is the author of the lies? -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 20:25:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ Flea in Your Ear -:- Who is the author of the lies? Kathie Thomas NT -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 21:31:59 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- Unless things have changed .... -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 17:28:51 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- What is the name of that Indian cult-buster? -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 17:51:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- B. Premanand -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 21:26:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Happy -:- B. Premanand -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 17:02:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- What did B. Premanand tell you, Happy? NT -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:00:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Happy -:- My talks with B. Premanand -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 16:42:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Many thanks Happy, I hope you tell Premanand -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 18:45:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ la-ex -:- Happy,did you give him the EPO site for mag?nt -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 17:14:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Happy, please email me -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 17:02:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- Wish I could help you on that one -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 19:29:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Way -:- More on the lies about darshan -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 20:01:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- More on the truth about darshan -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 21:15:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Well, Kelly, really -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 21:27:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Well, Kelly, really -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 22:10:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- To Kelly: Nobody made any false claims here -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 16:53:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Nobody made any false claims here -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 18:50:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Charles S. -:- Keeping information current... ''Contact High'' -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 20:12:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Keeping information current... ''Contact High'' -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 22:14:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- ok (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 19:15:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Connie -:- Facts about darshan -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 00:57:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Connie -:- Forgot to add -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 02:10:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Forgot to add ..some more -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 10:05:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Connie -:- I do have a dry humour, I think I'm funny (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 02:52:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Thanks Kelly. -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 23:16:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Kelly , you need some tantric sex -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 22:46:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Thanks for the suggestion, -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 10:08:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ TED Farkel -:- Kelly, let TED know if he can help you with thatnt -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 16:04:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Kelly, let TED know if he can help you with thatnt -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 00:16:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- A lotus foot in one world and Gucci-shod foot -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 21:42:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- More that marketing -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 21:57:31 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- Way, forgot to add -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 17:44:08 (GMT)

salam -:- rawat you boofhead -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 14:25:55 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- Brilliant, the credit check on Ivory's rock ... -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 17:51:39 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Brilliant, the credit check on Ivory's rock ... -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 18:31:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ salam -:- Brilliant, the credit check on Ivory's rock ... -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 09:37:03 (GMT)

Sandy -:- A gathering of thoughts -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 14:12:50 (GMT)
__ Barry -:- La la la la tip toe threw the tulips!(nt) -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 01:09:11 (GMT)
__ Brian Smith -:- A gathering of thoughts/ and a few more thoughts -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 00:12:05 (GMT)
__ __ Kelly -:- A gathering of thoughts/ and a few more thoughts -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 10:54:03 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- Sandy: -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 22:27:34 (GMT)
__ __ Sandy -:- Gregg -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 23:02:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Sure cure for Maharaj Jism blues -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 23:18:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Barry -:- For sure Pat. -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 01:20:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ JHB -:- Sandy - what happened? -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 23:10:21 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- Sandy, stop picking your scabs - sores won't heal -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 21:12:38 (GMT)
__ Hal -:- Saw a great t- shirt sandy -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 18:35:20 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Saw a great t- shirt sandy -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 17:42:00 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- A gathering of replies -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 18:13:07 (GMT)
__ G -:- my take on this -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 16:42:37 (GMT)
__ JHB -:- Sandy is not Sandy -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 16:14:26 (GMT)
__ __ Sandy -:- post-traumatic thread deletion syndrome,that's it -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 20:39:23 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Answer: yes BUT WHAT ABOUT LIKELIHOOD? -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 15:32:27 (GMT)
__ __ Sandy -:- I thought it wasn't Forum etiquette to yell.... -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 20:40:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ Barry -:- la la la la tip toe threw the tulips!(nt) -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 01:39:40 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- A gathering of thoughts -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 15:08:17 (GMT)
__ __ Postie -:- Sandy : here's an idea to try -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 18:07:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Barry -:- A regular Charlie Manson! -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 01:27:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sandy -:- Sandy : here's an idea to try -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 20:43:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Postie -:- I forgot the last step -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 22:25:13 (GMT)

AJW -:- London Latvian Night March 10th. -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 11:00:27 (GMT)
__ TED Farkel -:- Regretfully,.... -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:26:07 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- Arrangements have been made. -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 10:42:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ Thelma -:- Anth, save that electro-prod for the Holy Cow NT -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:57:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ TED Farkel -:- Anth,that's nice,but what I was REALLY concerned.. -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 16:17:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- It's OK Ted. -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 10:23:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Hey you guys. Stop that! -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 13:52:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Saint Marianne... -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 23:55:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- Hey babes, can you give us a buzz? (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 18:46:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ TED Farkel -:- I'm sending 'Top Gun'(Dave Smith) to Latvia... -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 17:33:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- I'm sending 'Top Gun'(Dave Smith) to Latvia... -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 00:06:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Kelly -:- No need to worry, I'm her chaperone -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:34:36 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Will there be a Satellite Feed? -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 17:29:01 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- No, but we will be on line -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 18:16:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill--will you let us kno -:- -w what EST hours you will probably be on line?.. -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 04:38:36 (GMT)
__ Marianne -:- The Meal -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 11:46:03 (GMT)
__ __ janet -:- BTW- what IS the logo of EPO??suggestions? -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:08:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- EPO Logo -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 01:31:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ la-ex -:- Drek's boob site,unless we get something better nt -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:18:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- something better? some silly ideas -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:45:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- something better? some silly ideas -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:49:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- 3 monkeys doing the techniques-hear no evil see no -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 10:12:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- 3 monkeys doing the techniques-hear no evil see no -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 17:31:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Postie -:- 3 monkeys are good but how about 'Just Say Know' -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 22:01:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- or how about this - -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 19:24:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- or how about this -page not availble -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 20:43:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- A Swan W/ A Circle Around 'n Slash Through It...nt -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 15:46:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Postie -:- Dump truck full of rotting veggies...nt -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:43:32 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Latvian Nights and Foot and Mouth Disease -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 08:46:44 (GMT)
__ JHB -:- Yes - it's very serious -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 13:48:12 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Latvian Nights and Foot and Mouth Disease -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 11:30:06 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- No problem, I'm vaccinated! (nt) -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 14:07:19 (GMT)
__ Marianne -:- Latvian Nights and Foot and Mouth Disease -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 09:35:01 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Joking with serious isssues -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 10:00:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ Kelly -:- Joking with serious isssues -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 11:57:43 (GMT)

Barry -:- Hey everyone! It's me birthday today!!!!OT -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 06:14:34 (GMT)
__ Pat Conlon -:- happy birthday Barry but don't call yourself -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 09:20:02 (GMT)
__ __ Barry -:- Thanks Pat. -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 10:13:54 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- Happy B-day Barry -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 08:37:09 (GMT)
__ __ Twiz -:- Happy B-day Barry -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 08:58:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Barry -:- Ring of fire baby! Ring of fire!(nt) -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 09:11:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Twiz -:- Re. Ring of fire baby! Ring of fire!(nt) -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 09:29:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Barry -:- Hey Twiz! -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 10:19:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- Zo, can you tell me once more if you -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 14:39:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Twiz -:- Where's my scanner? (Very OT.) -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 07:53:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Barry -:- The nut case! No cake!(nt) -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 19:49:29 (GMT)
__ __ Barry -:- Cheers Robyn!(nt) -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 08:55:59 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- Happy Birthday -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 06:19:05 (GMT)
__ __ Barry -:- No problem! -:- Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 08:54:12 (GMT)


Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 00:27:33 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Captain Rawat: Liar of all Liars
Message:
Hello Everyone,

I've been catching up on the threads because I was away for over a week. The most intense and telling was the thread about the coordinator's meeting in Atlantic City started by Joe. It's so clear to me now how much of a liar and hypocrit Captain Rawat has been all along.

I've been trying to re-write my journey. (I had posted one many months ago and had it removed). I'm having a very difficult time with it emotionally because there is so much to tell and process. Reading about what CR (Captain Rawat) said about marriage and relationships is beyond my comprehension. I was in a relationship in 1976, the year I received K. I became pregnant and had an abortion based on extreme pressure from the father's family, as well as advice from Charanand.

What angers me most about the contradictions CR made about marriage vs. being in the ashram is that I had that abortion--against my will and desires at that time which were based upon a belief that CR was against abortions. After the break up of the relationship, I was emotionally devastated. So, as I do so well, I dissociated, convinced myself that I was put upon this earth to serve ONLY HIM, and made plans to join the 'shram, which I did.

After about a year in the DECA project, which caused me to have both an emotional and physical breakdown, I was placed in the DLM offices in Miami part-time. I worked exclusively on processing divorces with a DLM attorney. In Florida at the time divorces had only a three month cooling-off period, so it was relatively easy for premies with no children to have a no-fault divorce.

It was a divorce mill--nothing less. I processed countless divorces so premies could move into the ashram--right out of DLM headquarters in Miami! Brainwashed as I was, it didn't bother me so much that childless couples wanted to divorce in order to move into the ashram. But there were several couples who had children and went ahead with their divorces so that one of the parents of those children could be free to live in the ashram. It was during the height of the 707 project and CR needed many bodies to work for him.

The thread about that Atlantic City meeting with CR was so poignant and intense at the same time for me. I always considered myself a devotee, a gopi and every moment I spent in the ashram I obeyed the rules. Sure, I had crushes on a couple of men in the community, especially after I was shipped to Gainesville, FL, but I was so confused, disoriented, and deeply saddened to have been rejected by CR. And I never followed through on any sexual desires because CR had made it abundantly clear that the ashram life was a lifetime commitment.

I remember weeping every day because I had been near CR so much and considered him to be my lord. I was thrown away because I became useless to him. Now I know all of that was a lie.

One of the most difficult things about CR's cult was the way in which he implemented changes. He intentionally changed courses in his ''mission'' in order to keep everyone under his control. I experienced great pain and suffering whenever he switched directions (which was often). His contradictions always had to be rationalized, yet I wasn't supposed to be in my mind. That left me and I'm sure many other premies in a state of confusion, while we lived our lives as devotees of a liar.

How could I have reconciled all of this? I dissociated. I tried so hard to keep up with CR's ever changing rules, his contradictions, his ability to keep me from thinking for myself and, most important, his creepily clever schemes which kept all of the premies in a constant flux, never able to question, doubt, or look at our lives as OUR LIVES.

We didn't live rational lives. I know I didn't. We lived for him and him alone. We were told not to think, but it was okay to judge eachother based on our levels of devotion, vis a vis, our contact with the outside world, our human relationships, both friendships and intimate partnerships, versus our view of others' devotion to CR.

Maharaji is the most hateful creature I have ever met and that includes my abusive father. With full awareness of what he was doing to innocent people, he drained premies of all resources: love for our families, love for intimate partners, love of our natural impulses as human beings to live and learn in this world, to function properly. His training, his mind fuck so we would accept his contradictions and contant changing of the rules in order to keep us confused and faithful to HIM has caused me so much emotional suffering.

I don't know if I can ever forgive him for the mind fuck he inflicted upon me and all of the premies. I feel very sad today after reading the posts that expressed the anguish he put us through. He is an unforgivable fuckhead.

I am emotionally drained from my trip to see my family, my Mother's Alzheimers is getting worse, and now I come back to this site, where my other family, the ex-premies, are trying to sort all of this craziness out so we can heal anad live somewhat ''normal'' lives.

I cannot think of any adjectives to properly describe CR today. He is so evil it's beyond my own comprehension. I remember a program when CR said that when one is faced with evil (he meant our lives, our minds), run as fast as you can in the opposite direction.

Well, I guess that's the only good advice he ever gave me. He is evil and I am running as fast as I can, emotionally, physically, and spiritually from this enormous lump of evil who clutched my heart and soul and stepped on it like it was so much shit.

Maharaji is an evil person. He has no conscience. He doesn't know what love is. All cR knows is greed and usery--there he is a master, an expert.

I want to thank everyone for contributing so much of yourselves to this forum. I need this support so much. I am trying to write my journey and it's taking time. I just cannot force it because I refuse to inflict more harm upon myself in the process of healing from this heinous cult.

To all of you EV ''Monitors'' fuck you! You are in a cult! To Captain Rawat, FUCK YOU x infinity! You are rotten to the core. You are not only a spoiled brat you are a master of manipulation and human torture.

Shame on you Maharaji, you thief of lives, you conman, you LIAR.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 19:31:12 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Maharaji/Charanand/Abortion
Message:
Cynthia,

Thanks for that post. But I have a question if you want to talk about it, otherwise that's fine. And it has to do with what you said about Gurucharanand advising you to get an abortion.

Can you explain what he said and his reasons (at least the stated reasons for saying so)?

Part of the reason I say this is because in the early 80s I know of one couple of ashram premies who decided to get married, because the woman was pregnant and because they had been advised that Maharaji was opposed to abortion.

The point here, is that this couple was about the least prepared, and least mature couple I could imagine, and, as expected, the marriage was a disaster, for both of them and for the child.

I was in the ashram myself at the time, and the guy was somewhat of a friend (who I believe follows M to his day, although the woman definitely does not), and I suggested that marriage was not a good idea, and whether they had thought about an abortion. He told me he had been told in no uncertain terms, including by premies who did 'service' at the residence, that M was against abortion and even said something getting an abortion makes one insane.

Of course, now there are stories that Maharaji's mistress has gotten abortions, but I don't know if that actually happened or not, but it seems that M has not retained his opposition to abortion these days.

Can you elaborate?

Joe

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 20:31:54 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: sylviecyn@yahoo.com
To: Joe
Subject: Maharaji/Charanand/Abortion
Message:
Hi Joe,

Charanand didn't advise me personally, he advised the father of my child. Because of Charanand's status in the cult, the pressure to abort the baby was immense. I have to clarify that I am a pro-choice woman, but at that time in my life, I never considered having an abortion; I considered it a child inside of me, intended to carry the child to term, and the entire community knew I was pregnant.

The father of the child is and continues to be a close friend of Charanand. He plays tennis with him a lot, and loves to chauffeur him around. I don't know exactly what Charanand told this man, but the gist of it was that marriage wasn't the way to go, but total surrender to M, and moving into the ashram was the way to go, i.e., I should get an abortion, because if I didn't, the father of the child would have financial responsibilities to the child, and he would not be able to join the ashram. Two weeks after promising to marry me if I aborted the child, he left me a letter saying the relationship was over.

I saw this guy in 1998, prior to my exiting the cult, and all he wanted from me was absolution for his behavior toward me in manipulating me into having that abortion. He didn't want to be my friend, or continue having any contact with me. When I realized he had tricked me again (20 years later) it opened up that can of worms for the first time, because I had buried that chapter of my life for a long time.

Charanand must have thought he was giving this guy good advice, being a good ''Mahatma.'' I remember clearly though, that I went through the darshan line while pregnant and it was at that program that he met up with Charanand because he (the father) was in a real ''bind.'' The disregard for my situation, my belief that M didn't believe in abortions added so much shame and guilt to my emotional state I became enraged for a while. Then I dissociated from the relationship and moved into the ashram. My magical thinking was that M knew of my suffering and was ''rewarding me'' with the request to go down to DECA where I spoke and saw him everday. Bullshit!

So, I worked very hard with my therapist a couple of years ago to heal this part of my life and it was emotionally agonizing. My therapist didn't understand the dynamics of the cult, but agreed with me that I was forced against my will (brainwashing) to have an abortion--I was confused, financially destitute, and his wealthy family also told me I would never receive a penny from them if I had the child. So it was a double whammy. I had pressure from all sides. Even when we went to the clinic to have the abortion, he asked me not to tell anyone there his name (again, his family is very visible in the Hartford community, both financially and politically). His father was a state senator for years, and his younger brother eventually became the Speaker of the House of the State of Connecticut.

I have been having nightmares every night for about 18 months, which are disturbing and awful. The general theme is: a) abandonment by the father of the child and M; b) being seduced by this person again and again and the dreams end with his leaving me; and c) horrible visual pictures of deformed babies, part animal, part human. Awful stuff.

Unless one is a woman, it's difficult to describe what the experience is to abort a baby. Again, I am pro-choice and don't judge anyone who chooses to have an abortion. I'm very liberal on that issue.

Yet, that abortion was forced upon me, and the father of my child's family was very well-to-do, and very visible in Hartford. I could have destroyed their reputation, but I'm not a vengeful person. In fact, I never thought of that at the time, nor did I even realize that he would be financially responsible for the support of the kid if I had had it. I just suffered through the whole thing in silence, prepared to join the ashram, and joined the ashram thinking it would solve all of my problems.

I wonder if anyone else has nighmares about difficult experiences while in the cult. These nightly subconscious uprisings leave me feeling not ashamed (I've gotten over that part), but feeling extremely disturbed (because the dreams are so horrible). I am working on that piece though, because the love I felt for that person in the relationship has left a long lasting wound which obviously isn't completely healed. I don't feel guilty anymore about going through with the abortion, I have forgiven myself. I just wish these terrible dreams would stop.

WhenI found out that while Charanand was advising this person to join the ashram Charanand himself was probably having affairs, I became furious and the whole damned thing was brought right to the surface, and I guess, still is trying to work itself out through my dreams.

Thanks for your concern, Joe. You are very kind to ask, and even though this is a public forum, I have no problem discussing this very personal issue. In fact, I think it's important for those of us who can, to reveal the events of our lives while in the cult.

In retrospect, I am glad I never had that child because it would have tied me to that man for the rest of my life. That doesn't excuse his, Charanand, or M's behavior at the time, but I know it was for the best for me in my future life. Now I have a happy marriage to a wonderful man. We both agreed before we were married that we would not have children (I think we put more thought and consideration into that decision than most people put into HAVING children), and I have many nieces and nephews to love and cherish.

I am very open to discussing this. It's intimate information, as I said, but important to me that those who read about my experience know that I was a brainwashed premie in a cult and was very confused at the time as a result of that cult.

Thanks again for your kindness, Joe,
Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 01:29:48 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Maharaji/Charanand/Abortion
Message:
Cynthia,

Wow, thanks for that. I am also very much pro-choice, but then I know I will never have to make that choice. But what is so infuriating about what you went through, is not only was the behavior of the boyfriend, and the boyfriend's family outrageous, but because you were in a cult, there was a whole other element that made it all the more difficult to know what to do. You were really victimized, and I'm so sorry. Sounds like you have worked through all of that, so all I can do is thank you and congratulate you.

And Charanand may have had a number of motives for what he did. If you got an abortion and then this guy didn't marry you, Charanand might have gotten him, and his potential money, into the ashram, or flowing in his and Maharaji's direction, more easily.

Joe

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:14:07 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Dreams turned to ashes
Message:
Dear Cynthia

I have been having terrifying nightmares that I know are due to traumatic episodes in the cult. To the point where I am sometimes too scared to go to sleep. They seem to come night after night, then abate, then surface again.

I am working through those episodes with a therapist and know I will be free one day.

Thanks for telling this very painful episode of your life with such raw emotion, exposing your vulnerability. I respect your courage and integrity.

It makes me cry to read all the posts from everyone else. It has had a big impact, as having just left the cult, I am still used to the exact opposite reaction to disclosures like these.

I will go and look for a funny post now.

love
C

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 22:58:56 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: secrets kill. out the father and fuck the storm
Message:
that follows. he deserves it wholly.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 17:09:17 (GMT)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Superb post, Cynthia!
Message:
But PLEASE, don't hold back and tell us what you REALLY think! he he he :-)
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 15:23:44 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: delores@gofree.indigo.ie
To: Cynthia
Subject: Captain Rawat: Liar of all Liars
Message:
Hello Cynthia. Your post was gut wrenching. I thank you for so eloquently describing what happens when one is thrown out of the guru's inner sanctum.

This tape about ashram living seems to have stirred up lots of dormant feelings for many of us who lived there. It got to me too. One reason the tape is so powerful is that it shows just how much EV and Captain Rawat are misrepresenting the cult's past. They fucked with our heads when we were in there, and they're still trying to do it now by denying what actually happened. I am grateful that Ulf kept these tapes because they do expose the lies that are being told today.

I hope you're doing well. When I read this post, I sent you some good energy. I know it was hard.

Much love, Marianne

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 15:07:45 (GMT)
From: Patrick (formerly Anon)
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Free the slaves! 'Gloria in excelsis Omnes!'
Message:
Thanks for taking the time to write that Cynthia.

What angers me most about the contradictions CR made about marriage vs. being in the ashram is that I had that abortion--against my will and desires at that time which were based upon a belief that CR was against abortions.

I heard that Maharaji was outspokenly against abortions (it's a very sensitive subject I know). This made it all the more surprising to me when various posters insinuated here that there were premie women who have had abortions on his advice.

I became pregnant and had an abortion based on extreme pressure from the father's family, as well as advice from Charanand.

The more I hear about Charanand the more I go off him. He sounds very, how shall I say, shallow. For a so-called man of principle. No doubt he was just passing on Maharaji's 'everyone should move into the ashram - lose your wives & husbands ' line, and was extending it to 'kill your babies'. This is of course a very serious matter-depending on your views on abortion I guess.

Everyone looked up to Charanand as a 'great saint' -he was treated with great respect. All these instructors who preached celibacy etc. were very hypocritical in their real lives. I have heard from a trusted premie friend that Charanand was successfully seduced by a teenage premie siren circa 1977. I mean - in a way, good for him - at least he broke the rules -but then to preach the opposite to others shows total lack of integrity and character.

every moment I spent in the ashram I obeyed the rules. Sure, I had crushes on a couple of men in the community, especially after I was shipped to Gainesville, FL, but I was so confused, disoriented, and deeply saddened to have been rejected by CR. And I never followed through on any sexual desires because CR had made it abundantly clear that the ashram life was a lifetime commitment.

Me too. I trusted him and followed the rules. Let us not forget that Maharaji also advocated that if you 'aspired' to be in the ashram, you should adopt that lifestyle beforehand if possible. Unfortunately I did. Furthermore I remember hearing him say (when the ashrams closed circa 1981) that the ashram closures didn't mean that as an'ashram premie' you should stop living like one. The implication was still there to remain renunciate. Of course no one did.

The first thing I did (as a 25 year old Scorpionic male who hadn't had sex for years) was to bed the first willing female who came along. I was a bit naive and of course got hooked into a relationship straightaway which didn' t really work out.

I remember weeping every day because I had been near CR so much and considered him to be my lord. I was thrown away because I became useless to him.

Emotions that make us Weep.

I am embarrassed because I stifle a blub in nearly all films - nowadays (since I have babies) that means films like Mr Grinch, The Emporer's New Groove, Dinosaurs etc. Anything that has as a theme the triumph of good over evil, freedom over oppression, is guaranteed to bring up a surge of emotional recognition that this is somehow what I want my life to be about. Last night I watched 'Gladiator' and I could feel myself reaching for my son's plastic armour and sword - I could identify with the noble cause to defeat the corruupt emperor. Films are often about finding and fulfilling a purpose against all odds. That is no coincidence because that is emotionally what lies in our hearts - AND WHAT IS HAPPENING IN OUR DRAMAS.

I know it sounds a bit pathetic but I confess that I used to spend a lot of time silently weeping under my meditation blanket in the ashram. To explain these strong emotions I need to relate some background:

I had first been inspired with love for God as a child. I believe this is a natural and common childhood emotion. I really loved God a lot. Interestingly my 4 year old daughter has expressed the same innocent love (emotion) without any prompting from me. It seems natural to love life when, as a fresh young child, one's innocent heart responds to the beautywe behold in the world in which we arrive.

Anyway, aged 16, after leaving a British public school where I had been primed and was priming myself to be unleashed on the world to fulfill some grand destiny - I got Glandular fever.
I was bed-ridden for 3 or 4 weeks. Prior to this I had been enjoying a dizzying spell of new experiences (girls, sex, copious amounts of LSD, Mescaline, dope and comraderie with friends, playing music etc.).

Being ill suddenly curtailed all this and I found myself in contrasting solitary confinment. It was confronting and gave me time to think deeply about my life which essentially lay as a blank page before me. How should I proceed? - I prayed for guidance -truly begged for whoever, whatever put me here in this marvelous world, to reveal itself so I could achieve a higher purpose. I naturally trusted that this superior power was kindly -that was why I prayed -that was my intuition and of course what my christian mother had believed and lived all her life and impressed upon me. She shone with that belief actually and was a very kind, good ethical woman who had seen and been through a lot in her own life during the war.

At school we were primed to be the best -we were made confidant that we were being given the best 'launch' in life that was available. But I sought an even higher purpose than the career that I was being groomed for. At first I thought this would be by becoming a musician with a message (I was already at this young age an up-and-coming musician). Then I thought that I should find God first then do what ever great thing I had to do -get in touch with the Ultimate Artistic Inspiration.

In short I believed that my destiny would be something really marvelous -I could live a life that reflected the beauty of the creator of the endless universe -the stars that I thrilled to behold from my parents country farm as a child. I wanted my life to be an expression of love to God -a celebration. I needed some experience to replace the drugs through which I had glimpsed ecstacy. I needed someone, like the Jesus of the bible, to return and guide me. Of course there seemed no one like this around and so my intense prayers, my supplications to God for my own revelation, represented an enormous thirst which often made me cry with longing.

Then along comes Maharaji (initially in the guise of John Brauns) and it's a prayer answered. The whole package is there -The opportunity to serve the Living Lord -to dedicate my life - to be given a destiny. So much happiness -so much joy- so much relief- so much hope -so much trust-so much good will.

Later I find myself herded (like the Pied Piper's flock) into the Ashram. Since I am still high on trust I ignore my doubts about the weirdness and inhumaness - I suffer the sacrifices and submit to the regime of stripping away attachments, still hoping in the bottom of my heart - from that same child's heart that had originally cried and longed to know it's source, that my new God (who now has a face and name, lives and gives 'orders') will give me a glorious part to play - he will give me a life. He promised that the ashram was the place to become fulfilled. It all made sense. It was the ONLY way to live as a truly commited follower. He said so. To recieve your Life first you needed to give it. This was the ultimate sacrifice - a leap of faith. Maharaji even used the word sacrifice often to describe the requirements of becoming his ashram premie.

As time goes on, the bleakness and harshness of renunciate life hits home. The only consolation is the Knowledge itself which is disappointingly not enough comfort in these new intensive circumstances. The premies are all behaving weirdly, and my talents, that I had honed for serving God, are not being used. It seems to not be working. Even 'Holy Name' seems to be a feeling that I associate more with long, heavy, all-weekend satsangs, the same old intense faces. Life, my youth, my God-given resources, seem to be slipping by. Maharaji is shouting at us now -bullying us -he seems a little crazy -demanding respect and gratitude. Whatever happened to the happy little boy I had been in my childhood Sussex farm heaven.

So under my meditation blanket, where I privately still communed with my original God, my tears would daily roll. They rolled as I beseached Him to make sense of what had befallen me. When would I be given something to do? Some purpose? They rolled as I struggled to understand why I should not be allowed to see my beloved and dying father, they rolled as I grieved for my devotion to be reciprocated, they rolled as I burst with sincerity and so much to give and yet no opportunity. They rolled as I struggled to keep Maharaji enthroned in my heart as the human representative of the formless God who, from simple gratitude, I had long wished to deeper know.

WAKEY WAKEY! Okay, it's 8.30 am - meditation over -time to go to work -to get money for the ashram and to pay for Maharaji's wants. The real world, the tedium of going to work as a draughtsman in Lowestoft every day, followed by 'Satsang' every night and then weekends of seemingly endless all-day 'Satsang'. Sometimes we in the ashram had given so much money that we could not afford to, and were expected not to even go to the programs that were such cherished opportunities for most to go and see the Master and to relieve the mundanity of their lives. So on went the story until the dream gradually crumbled and a most unexpected reality dawned.

It is for us to turn our frustrations and vengeful feelings to our advantage. To dedicate ourselves with renewed vigour to truthfulness and to Life itself, to take courage in our convictions and to live our own lives with complete integrity. These days I am so envigorated and inspired by having the courage to face the idol that placated my beloved formless God, that I even sense that if there is such a thing as 'Grace' then it will be on my side!

Talking of emotions, I have been writing some music for a video called 'Samadhi' which is a computer generated trip into heaven. In the middle there is a section where I use a King's College choir boy singing the following words (which I composed in pig-latin rather quickly) over a gloriously triumphant and exultant chorus:

'Gloria in excelsis Omnes! Gloria creatore mundi !'

literally - (Glory to everyone in the Highest! Glory to the Creator of the world!)

When I heard it it brought a tear to my eye, as it did to the animator who had to remove his glasses to wipe his eyes!

Let's get back to celebrating the wonder of life without the degenerate sham that Maharaji worship and Knowledge became! Let's take back the power from the priests! Let's have courage to face the powerful oppressors! Let's free the slaves!

(Sorry I really think that Gladiator film got to me!)

Right, this has to be posted now - mistakes and all - no time for spell check -gotta go and pick up kids -and buy my son a new sword to replace the one he broke in battle yesterday.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 01:54:37 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Patrick (formerly Anon)
Subject: Bravo Patrick , that made me weep too
Message:
....for your father , as well as you .

when you've finished with samadhi , why not get low down & write something to accompany the USMC hymn , which emotionally suits my mood .

It goes:

HYMN , HYMN ...............FUCK HIM .

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 20:33:40 (GMT)
From: Been There
Email: None
To: Patrick (formerly Anon)
Subject: Free the slaves! (Dying parents)
Message:
Wonderful post Patrick. What touched me most was that you were told you couldn't visit your beloved dying father.

Incredible isn't it?

It all comes from the Indian belief in renouncing everything that 'binds' us to this world: parents, children, all people, possessions, and places near and dear. What a bunch of crap!

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:15:11 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Patrick (formerly Anon)
Subject: 'Gloria in excelsis Omnes!' Hallelujah and amen
Message:
Thanks for that wonderful essay which brought a lump to my throat (yes, I also cry in movies) and I would love to see ''Samadhi.''
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 17:18:45 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Patrick (formerly Anon)
Subject: To Patrick (formerly Anon) and everyone...
Message:
Patrick, that was an incredible post! Each and everyone of us has our stages of growth. Grief and anger is where I am now as so many memories of my life in that cruel ''world of M'' come to the surface.

Your words:

Let's get back to celebrating the wonder of life without the degenerate sham that Maharaji worship and Knowledge became! Let's take back the power from the priests! Let's have courage to face the powerful oppressors! Let's free the slaves!

reminded me that my life is my own to retrieve from Captain Rotwat, mine to keep for myself, to share with those I choose, and to celebrate my victories, the love in my life.

When I became an aspirant in '75, I was given the service to sing in the Hartford, CT premie band. This service continued until I was sent to Miami in '79. I always received many compliments on my voice and I always said ''It's not me, it's Maharaji!''

I finally realized yesterday that the joy I felt in the expression of music and feeling so much happiness while doing it, was mine, is mine, and will always be mine to own.

It had NOTHING to do with that Captain ROTWAT and his brainwashing yacht-load of lies.

Many thanks to everyone for your love and support. You are my family in a dear way.

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:17:25 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: and I will always be grateful to you, Cynthia
Message:
as the first ex to respond to me here and tell me that I was not an un-premie but an ex-premie. Thank you.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:51:31 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: You're a sweetie, Pat Conlon, a big hug (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 15:39:03 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Patrick (formerly Anon)
Subject: Paatrick, Great Post! Heartfelt,wonderful...nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 16:58:21 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Yes, a very moving post, well said ...nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 16:57:10 (GMT)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: P (formerly A)
Subject: Great post!
Message:
Thanks for writing it.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 20:35:02 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Cynthia and Patrick
Subject: Great posts Cynthia and Patrick
Message:
My tears are rolling now! Powerful moving stories. I keep trying to write my journey, and I just keep getting stuck, there's just too much to tell. And anyway people here seem to keep telling aspects of my journey in their own extraordinary stories. I'm resonating in major chords here!
Love and thanks to you both
Kelly
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:22:25 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Cynthia and Patrick
Subject: Cynthia and PatAnon - thanks for the intensity! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:41:57 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: WOW, Cynthia! I've got tears in my eyes.
Message:
I'm sad that those emotions are in there but I'm glad you're getting some of it out. Use cut and paste and save that post on your hard drive. It's got some good ideas for your journey.

I'm still writing mine, but I don't think I went through a heart wrencher like yours. At this moment my heart bleeds for you--not that that will do any good.

Ulf and Joe, you done good by getting that Atlantic City information out to us. This has been the most meaningful (at least for me) week on the forum. That dark little consciousness hole of an ashram was a place where after a while all I wanted to do was die, where the drones and dronesses fed their little bleak gray dreams that they would one day be with their Lord. All the while (the intuition does NOT lie) knowing that it was never going to happen. Oh yuck.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 03:03:30 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Captain Rawat: Liar of all Liars / WOW
Message:
You go girl, That was a great piece of work you just did , I hope it was as good for you as it was for me. I haven't quite gotten into the anger stage yet and you just opened up the pressure valve for me that I have been fumbling for.

Anger is a great release, and a necessary part of the healing process. Hearing you tear into the guts of it like you just did brings to bear the incredible emotional denial that I put myself into for years and brings me another step closer to reclaiming my own life, emotions and sensibilies back.

Watching you cut loose also gives me permission do to the same thing when the time comes.

Thanks

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 01:36:49 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Good stuff Cynthia! Let it out!
Message:
I actually do alot of mold making in my spare time. Mostly plaster cast stuff, but I'm getting into reverse molds with rubber latex etc... I'm going to be making Lord Mufflebutt blow up punching dolls. You know! Like the old Bozo the clown ones when we were kids! Complete with the squeeky nose. I'll send you one when I finish. Anybody else?
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 02:52:50 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: i'll take one.I'll pulverize the fucker
Message:
keep in touch
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 02:12:11 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Lord Bufflebutt--Punch Him Out!
Message:
Thanks Barry,

I think one of the healthiest parts of healing is allowing anger to flow, as long as it's directed toward the correct recipient and isn't self-destructive.

Usually I just punch pillows, but your project sounds great!

I'm exhausted from my trip and need to rest. Disculta's post below was a wonderful explanation of how emotional healing can take it's toll on us physically...I feel sad, angry and my body aches all over.

I wish I could stay online longer tonight, but I have to give myself some rest.

Thanks for your support, I'll be back tomorrow:)))

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:38:05 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: OK then! I'll let all know when it's done.(nt)
Message:
punch anyone?
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 21:26:00 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: My Personal Holocaust - postcard from the edge
Message:
In a thread below by Joe about the abusive 1976 Atlantic City rampage by MJ, I put up a post called 'My Personal Holocaust,' detailing how much damage this particular turnaround and cruel ranting by MJ did to my life, and how my long-standing health problems seemed to start at that time.

It's all good. It has really stirred stuff up. I have been multidimensionally sick in the last two weeks, which has really motivated me into getting to the root of some of this stuff, for myself.

Reading those words posted by Joe was SO activating for me. It's like if you were abused as a child, but idolized your parents and so couldn't remember that you were abused, so you walk around blaming yourself for the strange paranoid behaviors that you seem to addictively run. Then if someone came forth who witnessed the abuse, or had a video of it, you could let yourself off the hook.

Reading these words from Atlantic City has really had this effect for me. I had already 'let myself off the hook' and let MJ off his throne on most levels of my being, but my experience has been that there are many different levels of my being, and the most important stuff happens at a more cellular level, rather than a cognitive one (and I'm REALLY into the cognitive side of things - I read about a book a day). At first after reading MJ's 'Holocaust speech', I was totally 'plugged in' for a couple of days. I am already fluey and fatigued and achey, but I found I could hardly breathe. Then, this morning, my women friends came over for our regular get-together (don't know what I would do without this resource, BTW). I told them about reading these words from my past, and some of what had been said, and they were outraged. Their outrage helped me break out of the frozen place I had been about it, and I cried and ranted while they held me and massaged me, and said soothing things like 'he's dirt,' and 'your power comes from within,' and 'you were put in a mindfuck with nowhere to turn,' and 'of course it was good that you were married,' etc. etc.

After all the years of therapy and clearing I have done on all this stuff (been out for 17 years!) it was amazing that there was still this big lump of stuff. I feel so much better now, and I wish y'all your own version of some way of releasing the feelings of these cult abuses from your bodies - not just keeping it at the level of thoughts in the head. I literally feel like a different person compared to a few hours ago. (And if this kind of emotional clearing sounds like mushy, women's stuff that you don't need because you're so together and logical - well ... the cult really got you!)

Hope this helps someone.

Love Disculta

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 02:37:11 (GMT)
From: Babs
Email: ralphie@ralphiescafe.com
To: Disculta
Subject: So much stuff. Who'da Thunk.
Message:
I'm still a relative newbie to this site, having just discovered it last month, and lurking for a while before taking the leap and posting. It's weird to realize that as recently as six weeks ago I had no idea that Divine Light Mission still existed in any form. I didn't know about the closing of the ashrams or about Knowledge Lite or the yacht or Jagdeo, because I walked away in 1979 and never looked back. I didn't realize how much examining and healing there still is to do...and that only other exes can really understand and participate in that process.

Flashback to late summer, 1998. I had been in therapy for about a year, and all this stuff started coming up about the cult. First, this dream about premies:

'In my dream, I had decided to give the premies one more chance. It was pre-festival preparation time in a luxury resort hotel. I had been given my assignment, to create artworks worth about $25 each for inclusion in baskets for a silent auction. The topics of the paintings had been written down for me on cards by a premie named Barry; and when I read them I became very angry and stomped around the hotel room, ranting and throwing the cards on the floor.

I demanded to talk to Barry. A committee of six premies came to the door and Barry was among them. They all sat down on the floor. They were obviously in sync with each other and viewed me as a lunatic. I directed my remarks at Barry, because he was the one who had written out my vague and misspelled instructions in his childish handwriting; but the group obviously felt it was inappropriate for me to single him out, as he was just the messenger, and they were all in agreement because they were surrendered to a higher power, and any problems I was having were due to my lack of meditation.

I told them it had been nineteen years since I had had any contact with premies at all, and they exchanged looks. I said I was surprised to find out that there were still so many premies. They said, as a matter of fact, there were three million of them.

I held up one of the cards. It said, 'Time and Again.' I tried to be rational with them. Big mistake. I said, 'Look, I'm a graphic artist. I'm volunteering to crank out a large number of paintings that you can sell for $25 each. I can do that if you give me specific instructions as to what you want. Give me a color, a letter, a symbol. Try to be responsible, mature, professional individuals.'

They PITIED me. I was being given an opportunity to serve, but my mind was too strong. I was unusable because I couldn't surrender...'

Isn't that a HOOT? Isn't that just about the way they really are?

About a week later, I dreamed about Guru Maharaj Ji for the first time in years. I sat in a chair next to him and we talked. He asked me some questions. It was difficult for me, but I was honest and objective. When I left, I didn't pranam, but we bowed to each other and we both said Jai Satchitanand. It felt like a graduation ceremony. I wasn't his devotee anymore, and for the first time he was actually interested in me.

The very next Tuesday, I revealed the techniques to my therapist.

In the twenty-six years since I received Knowledge, I had never once revealed the techniques to anybody. Not even to my husband.

I wrote in my journal, 'Am I reverberating? Yes. Majorly.

Premies would say that I received Knowledge but I am not practicing the Knowledge. Knowledge doesn't 'work' except by the grace of the Guru, and I am no longer a devotee; so even if I practiced the techniques, I wouldn't experience the bliss.

Now I have gone a step further. I have revealed the techniques to a non-premie. I keep waiting for lightning to strike me dead.

Chills and fever.

First I'm cold to the bone, goose-bumps all over, shivering in bed with the blankets piled on, curled up in a fetal position; and the next thing I know I'm drenched in sweat.

Am I angry at God? Guru Maharaj Ji was God Incarnate to me, and I am definitely angry at HIM.

'Guru is greater than God because he can show you God.'

I have disobeyed agya. I think I'm going to throw up. I'm picking at my face and pulling out my eyebrows.

'I can show you God.'

Knowledge without Devotion is dry. Devotion without Knowledge is blind.

'Time and Again' was the title of the painting the premies wanted me to do in the dream.

'This is why, time and again, Guru Maharaj Ji has to come.'

Who is Guru Maharaj Ji? The lover of your soul.

I went upstairs. Ralph was channel-surfing. Suddenly the television blasted out, 'All I need is the air that I breathe and to love you.' I remembered 'co-incidence.' I remembered Maharaj Ji never loses a premie.'

The next day, I was sad all day. More than sad: heartbroken. Went on three walks, painted golden doughnuts, clipped the grass, hardly ate. Couldn't shake the feeling. I just HURT. I knew it was the Guru thing, but 'how to explain to anyone but another ex-premie how much I miss that intensity of living, as painful as it could be? Is this what being grown-up is like?
Where did the magic go? Who the hell have I become? Where is the PASSION? I spend my days working at remaining calm. And my heart aches...'

On Thursday, while sitting, I did So-Hung and Nectar to settle into concentrating, and then did Om-Ah-Hum with Compassion for the rest of the time. 'I have to learn to accept the validity of the experiences I had in my Hindu Twenties and incorporate them into my Buddhist Forties. It's a classic case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater if I deny what I learned and what I felt during all those years of practicing Knowledge. I need to stop being ashamed of my 'Guru phase' and realize that I am still that person (but not ONLY that person.)

Revealing the techniques affected me profoundly... First I was physically sick, then emotionally sick, and now I am beginning to feel empowered.'

After a week, I was starting to ask the right questions.
'WHY was it so important never to reveal the techniques? It's a 'proper channels' thing. Only an ordained priest can transform bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ. Keeps the power in the church. Only Mahatmas initiate, and they reveal the Knowledge only to those who commit themselves completely to the Guru.

What danger is there in knowing and practicing the techniques without devotion to the Guru? Maybe the only danger is to the GURU, not to the devotee. He loses his power...

What I am destroying is his power over me. I am taking that power for myself. I don't need the church to experience communion. All I need is the desire for communion.

Revealing the techniques cuts the cord. Not until that moment was I truly on my own. Now no one else is responsible for what I experience.

My therapist tells me to 'honor my transgression.'

It is good to transgress a bad law.
It takes courage to deliberately break a bad law.
It was honorable to keep a secret for twenty-six years because I said I would.
But it was liberating to finally tell that secret.'

So. What is blowing my mind NOW is the existence of this Forum where we understand each other, and have the opportunity to share all this crazy stuff. It's just amazing. Beats the hell out of stumbling through it all alone.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 07:06:03 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Babs
Subject: Revealing the techniques cuts the cord - oh Sandy!
Message:
I showed my mother the techniques in 1983 and never looked back when I was not struck down by lightening. I recommend this to all exes as a therapy.

Sandy are you reading this? You will solve all your conflicts about the Bratgru's socalled ''power'' by showing them to someone else.

As Babs said: ''Maybe the only danger is to the GURU, not to the devotee. He (the guru) loses his power...

What I am destroying is his power over me. I am taking that power for myself.''

Thanks again Babs. You've still got plenty of passion.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 15:58:49 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Babs+Pat-I agree about techniques..
Message:
It just occurred to me that when Babs said that maybe the only reason it is bad to reveal the techniques to others, is because it hurts the Guru, not the devotee, something struck home...

Isn't that the way it was with so many of the things that the guru put us through?

All of it was tilted in his favor, but made to look like it was for our own good....the mark of a good con man....

So many things were passed on to us, that we went along with, with the fear of god burned in us if we questioned them, that only served to enrich and glorify the guru,and enslave us....

This still goes on today, just in subtler form....like not questioning outrageous fees for programs, signing up for smart cards and satellite feeds for outrageous sums, not questioning the allegations about his behavior, because they are focusing on the 'experience'......

I think that m has really milked the 'heart/mind' analogy to the max, and still uses it to control premies...
M represents the heart, and since you are only in your heart or mind (not according to my world view, but according to m, so it must be true, at least for premies..), if you ever question or complain or even ask why, you are automatically in your mind, because as m has told us, the heart doesn't question...

So, when you question, you are NOT in the heart, but in the mind...

It's funny, because in the Unitarian church I go to occasionally, they preach that everything, especially your questions, are a gift that enable you to proceed on your own path...quite a different take on life than the guru's...

There's something about a man who allows no questioning, will not ever talk seriously about life with his students,and demands unquestioned loyalty, that strikes me as very scared...

I think m has been lost for a long time. He is a coward, a liar and a hypocrite, and can't begin to find the strength or courage to just level with his students and ex-students and begin a truthful process that would only help everyone, especially himself and the ones he claims to love so much...

At the millenium program, m said that when the antichrist came, no one would know it, because he would be TOO professional...

Could this description apply to the master and his premies now?
The premies can't see the con, it's just TOO professional...

La-ex

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:06:24 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: If M were honest he'd put himself out of business
Message:
Thanks for that indictment. The thought has crossed my mind that he is the Anti-Christ but I'm not very superstitious anymore so I'm not sure what it menas. He sure is the ultimate con-man.

I see Charles did his bit by talking about the techniques in a thread below.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 03:00:19 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: Babs
Subject: So much stuff, oh yeah
Message:
I loved and could really relate to what you wrote Babs.

The bittersweet poignancy of the pain and deep hurt is compelling.

The recognition of physical, emotional and mental angst, separation and effort to heal rises up in greeting and embrace.

I have not travelled as far as you.

When I posted on the thread below about darshan I felt like I was betraying something so anciently special that was supposed to be secret, aahh, made my heart flutter, my mind tremble.

All the best
C

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 07:09:28 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Connie
Subject: That old black magic has me in it's spell
Message:
The bhakti juju - not recommended for intelligent sensitive people except between consenting adults in the privacy of their own home. Let's break these taboos and voodoos and be free.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 02:45:13 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Babs
Subject: So much stuff. Who'da Thunk.
Message:
'Beats the hell out of stumbling through it all alone.'

You can say that again, Babs baby!

Loved your story. I have revealed the techniques, too. I'm still here, too.

Love Disculta

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:31:17 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Amazing story - so much stuff indeed!
Message:
Incredible how much emotional discord got tucked away to be released today. Thanks.

Speaking of revealing K. I recently told a friend who thought he may be terminal about looking for the light in meditation the way I was shown - well I didn't squeeze his eyeballs like Fakirand. When I did do light in recent years, I just focused between my eyebrows and the light came. It is comforting and centering at least. It felt good to offer that and now that you mention it, it was self empowering too.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 22:16:32 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Disculta
Subject: Thanks --- Anger is good
Message:
Thanks for sharing that Disculta. It sounds intense, but good as well. At least I take your word for it that the process is good. And I agree that support from family and friends is so important. I know it is for me, too.

It was strange for me to listen to that tape of the Atlantic City conference. I saw it mostly as an opportunity to document what I recall very well, about Maharaji saying all those hateful things, and the effect it had on me. It was really rather matter-of-fact for me, because it all sounded so familiar. Now it sounds outrageous, but it was just so common-place and acceptable back then, for me to sit there and be abused by Maharaji. It just happened all the time, and I thought it was good for me; that he was, in fact, giving me love in that hateful abuse. Maybe that IS what an abused child sometimes feels. But I didn't really find anything remarkable about what he said when I listened a few days ago, because I remembered all that already.

As I have said before, I agree with Patrick(Anon), that wasting those years in the ashram is the biggest regret of my life. After I got out of the cult 17 years ago, I experienced a lot of anger about that, and I let myself feel it. I also tried to use the anger as an energizing force to reconstruct my life, which I did, although that is a never-ending process, I have come to learn. Then I kind of forgot about it, and moved on.

Then a few years ago, I found this website, and I remembered these things again. Again, I felt waves of anger again. But it was kind of short lived, much shorter by far than the first time. Now, every once in a awhile I feel anger again, but it's kind of rare, and usually for only a few minutes at a time. More, now, it's indignation I feel at the injustice of it all.

But even that is also mitigated by seeing people come forward and get out of the cult. And I think what you've had to say is very helpful for all of us, and I'm glad (I guess) that the post about the Atlantic City conference helped you get through some stuff.

Take care, and all the best. Hey, I'd like to do lunch sometime.

Joe

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 02:51:01 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Thanks --- Anger is good
Message:
Yes, let's do lunch really. Can you e-mail me, I lost all my e-mail addresses.

The thing you said about how seeing people coming out of Cultsville after so long mitigates this whole thing is true for me, too. Although I'm currently in this little recapitulation (it's almost all passed through, I think) I'm not generally all that activated by the whole thing any more. But I feel a great thrill when I see people getting themselves back. It's like a magnetic draw, that keeps bringing me back here, and it especially feels good if I can help a bit.

You said that you just took all that stuff for granted when you were listening to it and taking notes. I think I might have, too, except that my husband walked in while I was reading it and started reading it, and was so outraged that it woke me up to another level of outrage than the old hum I was feeling.

Yes, it is all good and healing.

Love Disculta

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 03:52:35 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: kevjo@mindspring.com
To: Disculta
Subject: Lunch
Message:
Hey, I have a new email address, and if you email me I can also give you my phone number so we can set up a time.
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 17:00:39 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The weight of the world
Message:
Rawat used to talk about how he was going to save the world, but that he needed our help, how he 'came' in the nick of time.

Knowing the precarious state of affairs in our world, this is one thing that kept me hooked. I felt that if I didn't help him, I would be endangering the whole world. He played on my feelings of guilt and pride and to my idealism and sense of responsibility.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 17:06:54 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Doesn't it seem there were two groups?
Message:
Well, maybe three groups.

I'm in the one with you, that Maharaji's promise to bring peace and love to the world, to save the world, was the thing that got me involved and kept me involved, at least for part of the time, until it was pretty clear Maharaji had abandoned that.

Then, there appears to be a second group of people who didn't care so much about the state of the world but wanted spiritual realization, or wanted to walk on the path of spiritual realization.

And there may be another group of of people who wanted to get high, perhaps drop out of the world, and maybe this group were motivated by prior drug experiences, although I think some of the spiritual groups did as well.

And now, in the Maharaji cult everything is so vague, that I guess you can believe any of those things, although there is no actual support for believing any one of them.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 16:27:35 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Oh my god! Was Katie right?
Message:
In a thread below, lies the longest, most conversationoid post ever by CD, aptly titled 'allow me to introduce myself'. In it, CD says:

I just had a recollection. A big part of my sense of things comes from a severe accident I had at about age 14. I almost died from a head injury.

Could it be ......? I mean, how does one even talk about this? Well, I'll guess I'll just say it. Chris, have you ever wondered about the long-term effects you might have suffered? Ever looked into it? If it turns out that you are, indeed, slightly brain-damaged, well, I'll be the first to apologize for being so harsh on you.

An open mind, Chris.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 19:37:06 (GMT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: look in the mirror
Message:
>If it turns out that you are, indeed, slightly brain-damaged, well, I'll be the first to apologize for being so harsh on you.

Jim,

It is a disgrace on you to attempt to smear both Katie and myself in a single post.

Have you ever wondered that you may be digging yourself into a hole?

I had a nasty injury but recovered quite well from it after missing a couple years of high school sports. I got diverted to amateur radio and electric guitar instead which I ended up playing successfully as a lead guitarist at many high school dances. I was the top Latin and Math student at my high school for 4 years.

If I had severe brain problems it might be difficult for me to have had the high academic record I acheived at the University of California San Diego. Also, how do you explain the current $15K/month paycheck I get for my computer work.

You would do best to refrain from making personal attacks on me. Especially ones where the target is a ghost and the barrel of your gun is sealed yet you have just loaded it with live ammo.

CD

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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 04:24:08 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: do you still tithe?-nt
Message:
asdf
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 16:27:16 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: CD
Subject: Well here's food for your cognitive teeth..
Message:
CD, instead of flaunting your academic and guitar-playing credentials (yet again), how about showing us your communication skills.

You recently mentioned 'not knowing anything' about Maharaji off-stage. That as far as you were concerned, he is a teacher and no more. This is, at best, disingenuous of you.

I assume you have read the transcript of the Atlantic City conference. I also hope you have glanced at Cynthia's current thread on the forum?

Do you still know nothing about what sort of man is Maharaji? Not even a guess?

Do you find his behaviour admirable? Do you find the consequences of his 'teachings' to be in any way regretable?

Please, share, brother...

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 00:48:28 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Hey, man, that was your OUT. Too bad for u!
Message:
Chris,

If you're not brain damaged then you're evasive in the extreme. Only so many ways you can slice this, Chris. You either do or don't have a problem communicating responsively.

So, fine, Chris. You're okay and I'm an asshole. Beside that, though, I'm going to ask you one more time, the questions that you've never answered although I've asked you a number of times over the years:

Everyone I know of who's ever tried to talk with you here has complained that it's impossible to carry on anything like a conversation with you. Those who have tried have invariably expressed their frustration in the effort saying that, in particular, you don't answer questions responsively or carry through in anything akin to actual debate or dialogue.

1) Do you agree that this has been the general consensus?

2) Do you think that you DO answer questions responsively?

3) Do you think that you DO carry through in anything akin to actual debate or dialogue?

4) If you say 'yes' to 2 and 3, to what do you attribute this general frustration with you?

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:47:57 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: Hey CD! Do you like the Doors? OT
Message:
I fucken love the Doors. Morrison, and his erotic politicians?
Since you live in LA and all, and went to the U of C etc....
Totally out ofF topic I know. Just to lighten up things a bit.
I really would like to know if Morrison's image and misteak is alive in LA still? Last time I went to LA I noticed his mystery still alive and intact. Is it still? Later.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:30:35 (GMT)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: AD6NY (?) aka CD
Subject: look in the mirror
Message:
CD, what was the injury?
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:19:08 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: New-Age Redneck
Subject: hi!!
Message:
just felt like saying that.

CD I agree with you about the post. yuck

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 02:49:35 (GMT)
From: Cw
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You confirm my opinion of you Jim
Message:
Dare I say that would have to be the ultimate 'low blow'.You are nothing but a prick monster Jim.If anybody is suffering from brain damage Mr Heller, it would be you, and to my knowledge you dont even have the misfortune of a childhood accident to point to.
As you always say to me ' keep talking your the best advertisement'.
You cruel horrible man.
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 19:56:28 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: CD! Is this true?
Message:
If it is, well, I'm sorry for bugging you too!
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 15:42:56 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: CD! Is this true?
Message:
I guess Cw means CD. I had the fortune of not reading that thread, as I have ignored it.

On the surface, Jim's posts look like straight forward, but I have noticed that he has an agenda behind them. His sorry to CD is not a 'sorry', but an invitation for one of his low life arguments that are typical of him.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 20:22:25 (GMT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: CD NE CW
Message:
>I guess Cw means CD.

You guessed wrong.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 16:16:49 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The death of little Samuel
Message:
Last week, one of television's newsmagazine shows had a segment about the small cult in Massachusettes who killed one of their children, a boy named Samuel.

One of the cult's members had received direct instruction from God that Samuel was to be fed breast milk only. Unfortunately for Samuel, about 8 months old, his mother was anorexic and not producing much milk. He died a slow and agonizing death, and was then was buried secretly by the cult.

The neighbors, however, had been watching, and noticed Samuel's absence.

Samuel's father, mother, and the one who received the instruction from God are now all on trial for murder. Their lawyer says that they are not guilty of murder, just guilty of being stupid and misled. The cult's leader, Roland Robidoux, remains free and uncharged. Although he is responsible for the cult's beliefs, there are no laws against being a crazy guru in America, so he lives unhindered among us.

Freedom of religion, a wonderful thing.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 18:38:21 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: The death of little Samuel
Message:
I also watched that report about the cult in North Attleboro, RI, while I was visiting my sister in RI last week. The story was headline news in RI so she already knew about the murder of Samuel.

Samuel was 8 months old and had already been eating some solid foods. Samuel's aunt was the one who had the message from god. This aunt's husband left her and his five children after realizing he was in a cult, and tried for two years to get his children out. Whenever he tried to visit the children EVERYONE in the cult ignored him; they would not acknowledge his presence (as if he were a ghost, he said).

Because Samuel's mother was considered ''vain'' for being too thin, they force fed her, believing that nurishing her would provide Samuel with enough nutrition from her breast milk.

Samuel's death was a slow and painfully agonizing death. He died of starvation.

Most or all of those children were undocumented (no birth certificates), were home schooled without state supervision.

The neighbors video taped this group, which was fortunate for the prosecutors and for the father of five, who wanted to get his children out of the cult.

This man expressed his grief over Samuel's death; there were two other infants who also ''disappeared.'' (I think they died during their birthing). One of the group's beliefs was that medical care was unnecessary because everything was ''god's will.'' The cult had found some land down south somewhere and buried all three. The authorities did recover the bodies. All of the surviving children were taken away from the cult and now live with relatives who never were involved in the cult.

The man interviewed said when he saw his children in the courthouse, they behaved in the same way described above. Their arms were crossed and they either looked away or through him. Yet when he got his children back that day, as soon as they got into his car, they immediately snapped out of it and were happy to be with their father.

One woman who was pregnant and near her term was court ordered to be taken into custody in order to give birth to her child in the presence of a physician.

Besides the video tapes, each cult member kept detailed journals which they considered to be scriptures. This is how the child protection agency was able to go in and remove the children.

The story isn't over as you said, Way, because the cult still carries on, it's leader walks free, and continues to lead this sicko cult.

The man interviewed stated that now he is very confused about god and religion but continues to believe in some kind of higher power, but feels brainwashed. Familiar?

Freedom of religion! That's no religion. But at least they were stupid enough to write everything down and the children were rescued; the cult is being watched closely now by authorities.

This is a very sad story.

Best,
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 03:52:16 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: The death of little Samuel
Message:
Dear Way and Cynthia,
Reading this account makes me feel more strongly about the thread I started about trying to help other ex-cult members start sites similar to this one including the forum and journeys. There was little interest to that thread but I think I'll persue it on my own. G gave the url of a more general cult forum but this ex-premie.org is so much more powerful with all the other info available.
Thanks for draging this info into the light.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:07:18 (GMT)
From: Sean
Email: seang2@earthlink.net
To: Robyn
Subject: ex-cult members
Message:
Robyn
I'd like to see that happen. I think the more communication and information that is shared, the more we take away from these parasites.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 10:03:15 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Sean
Subject: ex-cult members
Message:
Dear Sean,
I know that the cult we were in is less harmful then lots others out there and I see how hard it hits some of the people here so just imagine the people from other cults that may really benifit from sites like this.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 12:41:07 (GMT)
From: Sean
Email: seang2@earthlink.net
To: Robyn
Subject: Very true!(nt)
Message:
googoosgalore
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 15:55:19 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 80,000 receive darshan
Message:
In a newly built darshan hall, with ornate carved stonework, Rawat spent the last two weeks giving darshan to 8 shifts of 10,000 Indians each. This is announced, after the fact, by Enjoyinglife.

I have a prediction for the future, (the first time I've gone on record as a soothsayer): The devotees of the two Rawat brothers are headed for a guru war: 'my guru is God and your's isn't.'

This could get interesting. I don't know how many premies are on Satpal's side, he doesn't really say on his website. But he seems to be doing quite well.

In the meantime, Rawat is hoping for around 5,000 at his Amaroo shindig, with the majority of those being paid-up, on-site boarders.

He doesn't seem to be taking our suggestion to give up very seriously.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 19:20:32 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Lies
Message:
True that enjoyinglife mentions darshan, although they don't mention that it involves kissing feet. The following, also on the Enjoyinglife site, is a big lie. And the premies know it.

For the Indians, brought up in the tradition of Hinduism, 'darshan' has for thousands of years, been part of their relationship with their master or guru. It simply means being 'in the presence of', and in this context offers the chance of personal contact and the opportunity to express gratitude. It really does not have an equivalent in western cultures, but in India it is seen as an integral part of the student/teacher relationship.

Well, Maharaji had thousands of people in North America and Europe, which I think qualify as 'western cultures' line up and kiss his feet for more than a decade in the 1970s and the 1980s. Maharaji apparently felt at the time that this 'darshan' was an 'integral part' of what he was doing, considering that he performed it dozens of times in the USA alone.

He also made millions of dollars in donations by engaging in the ritual.

In addition, in September of 1997, in the 'western culture' of Australia, Maharaji once again engaged in the foot-kissing ritual known as 'darshan' with not only Australians, but others from North and South America, and Europe as well.

Don't premies, or PWKs, find this deceit distasteful and prefer not to be associated with it? Obviously, the rot starts from the top in Maharaji's deceit as well, but please!

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 20:25:33 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: delores@gofree.indigo.ie
To: Joe
Subject: Who is the author of the lies?
Message:
Does anyone know, with any certainty, who wrote the FAQs? You can email me with this information if you want. I want to know who is responsible for posting this information very badly.

And just what does it mean to have premies 'express gratitude', EV? Translation: foot kissing.

Foot kissing = reverence for the Supreme Being

Marianne

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 21:31:59 (GMT)
From: Flea in Your Ear
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Who is the author of the lies? Kathie Thomas NT
Message:
h
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 17:28:51 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Unless things have changed ....
Message:
which they very well might have, I heard that Bal Bhagwan Ji (Satpal) seized Prem Nagar by force, and that he has way more devotees in India than M. When the family split, in India, the devotees chose sides as well. In the US this was downplayed, and there was only a small band of us renegades. (I went back to M in 1976 or so, because I was mostly just hanging with Bhole Ji.) Of course, M has been building up the ranks in India for many years now. But you notice he never got Prem Nagar back.

One big issue in the family split was the fact that M was supposed to get into some arranged marriage to an Indian lass of Mata Ji's choosing, or at least with her blessing. At this time, for better or worse, he chucked his spiritual upbringing (and perhaps his spiritual lineage) and surrounded himself with 'yes' people. At least up to that point, folks had to answer to Mata Ji and Satpal as well.

With the conservative traditional Indians, it was fine for Westerners to be M's devotees, but Western women were considered the equivalent of hookers by some Indians. M lost scores of Indian premies during the family split due to his marriage to Marolyn and his split with the rest of his family. The traditionalists went with Satpal and Mata Ji.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 17:51:04 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: What is the name of that Indian cult-buster?
Message:
I think one problem with Maharaji's Indian premies is that, if they were informed about Rawat's sexcapades with blond, premie Western women, they simply would not believe it. They would consider it a false and malicious smear campaign.

Since Guru Charananad says that propogation is now exploding in India, I think it is time we write a letter to alert that main cult-buster in India. Who remembers his name?

I think the dueling brothers story would get some attention.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 21:26:14 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: B. Premanand
Message:
Which is funny, because he doesn't love Prem.

See Indian Skeptic

Here's his picture

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 17:02:28 (GMT)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: G
Subject: B. Premanand
Message:
I have personally talked to B. Premanand about Rawat and his brother.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:00:38 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: What did B. Premanand tell you, Happy? NT
Message:
n
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 16:42:04 (GMT)
From: Happy
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: My talks with B. Premanand
Message:
I am nowadays a quite good friend with B. Premanand. I discovered his existence a few years ago, through the journal Indian Skeptic which he is the editor of. We communicate by letters, and I have also visited him and met him in person. Sometimes I send him things for publication in his journal.

He is a wonderful guy, with a marvellous humour, and a sharp intellect. All gurus in India are afraid of him, especially Sai Baba. He claims that Sai Baba's goons have made three attempts on his life.

I have discussed Rawat with him, and he did not know very much about R. The only thing he could recall was the diamond smuggling in 1972, which made the headlines in India. Rawat is not very big in India at all, his brother is at least a politician ...

But I am sure he would publish an article about R. in his journal if we provide him with it. So far he has published everything I have sent him, mostly things about Sai Baba.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 18:45:19 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: Many thanks Happy, I hope you tell Premanand
Message:
about the illegal cover-up of the manslaughter incident involving Mr Rawat in India and also about the Jagdeo affair.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 17:14:08 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Happy
Subject: Happy,did you give him the EPO site for mag?nt
Message:
vv
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 17:02:00 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: wwilliam@kumc.edu
To: Happy
Subject: Happy, please email me
Message:
Thanks Happy and G for his name.

Happy, would you please email me? I want to ask you a couple further questions.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 19:29:13 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Wish I could help you on that one
Message:
I forgot to add that I believe Mata Ji and Satpal harbored these prejudices against marriages to Western women themselves. When Raja Ji married Claudia, my introduction to living in the compound with Bhole Ji was a little family row that took place in LA.

Mata Ji and BBJ (and possibly Bhole Ji) came up the hill in the car (we lived at Camp Joan Meier. Mata Ji's glasses were bent, and she was crying.

I was told later that BBJ had smacked Raja Ji in the face with a shoe in a little family confrontation after he and Mata Ji were told he had married Claudia. (This was before M's marriage to Marolyn.) Of course M's security scuffled with Mata Ji and BBJ and she got roughed up. The idea of marrying a western women in a nontraditional manner did not play well with Mata Ji and BBJ.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 20:01:31 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: All
Subject: More on the lies about darshan
Message:
Yes, Joe, ELK could do better with their description of darshan. For instance, they should point out the important distinction between normal, walkabout darshan (the presence of) and 'formal darshan,' (kissing the feet).

Their description of darshan coincides with Rawat's attempt to have an acceptable image worldwide. To describe the lips to feet contact, they merely say 'personal contact.'

They mention that the tradition is ancient, but they forgot to mention the no.1 most important part about darshan: this long, honored tradition is not to express gratitude, but to express openness to the guru's shaktipat, or spiritually-awakening energy. This supposed direct transfer of higher energy is the main reason that the guru is a necessary component for the student's development, so it seems strange that Rawat downplays the shaktipat aspect.

In the most recent Australian darshan, Rawat said it was an opportunity to express 'respect,' again a very watered-down description. He seems so concerned about presenting an acceptable and modern image that he ends up creating a very confused image for himself.

At the last Hans Jayanti, all Westerners who showed up early to do service were given Darshan, so again ELK is quite misleading in their attempts to say that Maharaji only gives darshan as a cultural act of respect by his Indian students.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 21:15:51 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Way and all
Subject: More on the truth about darshan
Message:
When I last went through darshan, it was in India 1998, and I was delighted and felt totally priviledged to have the opportunity to get close to my master. In other words, no-one is forced to do this. Westerners do it now, as they did in the past, because they want to. Just like the Indians.

In the interests of truth and accuracy, no-one kissed his feet, We were told that we could touch his feet if we wanted to, but just as we passed by, no bowing down. We were also told to hold our hands in front of us, either in a praying/greeting position or just clasped together. I think this was basically so security could check that you are not carrying a weapon!! Apparently this has occasionally happenned!
On the other hand, I'm pretty sure I kissed his socks in Amaroo in 97. it was not a memorable event for me! But foot kissing is definately off the agenda now.

I watched the recent UK TV coverage of the Khumb Mela, with great fascination...little clips of a handful of followers of some rather ratty guru, doing the bhole shriek, and kissing or touching his feet. Also arti singing...the same words,the same trays, they all do it.

Feet touching really is a mark of respect in India..I have mentioned before that I saw premies touching Jagdeo's feet. Mike Finch also tells how, to his great embarrassment people tried to touch his feet, because he was so close to their lard and master.

The point of this post is that I think the truth is important, and we don't do ourselves or anyone else any favours by making false assumptions and then reacting in shock and disgust, to what any current premie, who may be wavering, knows is not true, it only puts them off.
Kelly

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 21:27:00 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Well, Kelly, really
Message:
When I last went through darshan, it was in India 1998, and I was delighted and felt totally priviledged to have the opportunity to get close to my master. In other words, no-one is forced to do this. Westerners do it now, as they did in the past, because they want to. Just like the Indians.

Well, Kelly, no one was ever 'forced' to go through darshan, even during the many years Maharaji instructed people to have full-on lips to toes darshan all over the Western Hemisphere and Europe. Just like nobody 'held a gun to our heads' to receive knowledge, practice it, devote our lives, etc. This is a major rationale of current cult members, this supposed lack of 'force.' But we all know that the 'force' is really quite otherwise. I think you say it well that you believed, you had 'the opportunity to get close to the master.' In other words, cult programming.

The very fact that he engages in something like this is disgusting. You don't have to really get into the details.

And I think you are making a meaningless distinction here. And at Amaroo in 1997, at least two premies have told me, in addition to you, that they did, indeed, kiss his feet. By the way, did you notice anybody at Amaroo in 1997 who DIDN'T go through darshan? Don't you think even those who felt weird about it might do it just to avoid 'missing the opportunity.'

But all that is kind of beside the point. The point is Maharaji and Elan Vital are liars, in representing that all the Hindu trappings are gone, that this isn't about devotion, and that it is only some kind of cultural hangover for Indians.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 22:10:08 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Well, Kelly, really
Message:
Hey Joe,
I was really only making two points..
One, that it is true that darshan and foot touching is a traditional feature of Indian life, and very much a part of the guru devotee relationship. I was also reminding myself, as much as anybody, that in 1998, I was still a devotee, in fact even more recently than that, like four months ago....more or less ( that means more or less a devotee... although becoming rather a sceptical one) Someone recently lent me the book Rhadsoami Reality, and there are various pictures of darshan, including one guru who was giving it through the window of a railway carriage. It's absurd!

The second point, is that truth and accuracy are important here. 'Just give me the facts! and the fact is that those 80,000 new Indian premies did not kiss his feet. I agree, the whole scenario is appalling, but nothing unusual from their point of view!!

You see the whole Indian thing is so fresh and strong in my memory still, and I really enjoyed my time there. In spite of all that bhakti juju nonsense. What am I to do? this is my experience...to use a dirty word!!

Love Kelly

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 16:53:18 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: To Kelly: Nobody made any false claims here
Message:
Your admonitions that 'the truth is important,' 'just give the facts,' and 'don't make false assumptions and false claims' are condescending and undeserved. Neither Joe nor myself made a single false claim, a single false assumption, or misrepresented the truth in any way. I resent your post.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 18:50:38 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Nobody made any false claims here
Message:
Hi Way,
I think there was a general false asumption, that the 80,000 premies kissed the gurus feet. Maybe it was really nit picking to point out that they don't actually kiss his feet any more, after all, the essence of the darshan ritual remains the same. The same as it has always been in India in the relationship between guru and devotee.
That 'just give me the facts' quote, was Peter Sellars as Inspector Clouseau!

I remember when I first started reading here, I would find information that was really out of date, or simply not true and it tended to invalidate the rest of the information, so I think it is important that we get it right, even relatively unimportant details.

There were also some unusual influences acting on me that day, which I have explained to Joe off-line.

So, I'm sorry to offend you Way, I think you're doing a good job here.
Love Kelly

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 20:12:00 (GMT)
From: Charles S.
Email: bctanda@hotmail.com
To: Kelly
Subject: Keeping information current... ''Contact High''
Message:
Kelly said:

''I remember when I first started reading here, I would find information that was really out of date, or simply not true and it tended to invalidate the rest of the information, so I think it is important that we get it right, even relatively unimportant details.''

I know exactly what you mean, Kelly. One of the biggest complaints Premies have about EPO is that they percieve it as being terribley out of date. As a recent ex, I often feel the need to ''update'' information here as much as I can, to add relevancy and accuracy to what is being said. It may seem like nit-picking, but I think the more accurate we are, the more relevant and credible it makes the entire forum and EPO.

I had not had the opportunity for darshan for many years. Your information on how foot ''touching'' has replaced foot ''kissing'' was a real revelation. I had once seen as part of a video, a kind of reception line walking by M. People were not bending down to kiss his feet, and I wondered if it was some kind of darshan. The camera did not show M's feet, so I couldn't tell. What you described may explain that. Another piece of the puzzle filled in for me. Thank you, Kelly.

I also feel your assertion that foot touching in india is a common sign of respect, and not at all shocking to THEM, is a valid point. To anyone that has spent a lot of time with Indian people, their ways and customs become familiar, and therfore not so shocking. If ex-premies seem overly outraged by common Indian customs, it could be mis-interpeted by visiting premies as mere cultural predjudice. That would be unfortunate, because I think Joe and Way's real objections are not to the form the darshan takes, but the concept of some sort of ju ju transferance happening by being physically close to or touching the Master.

My own feeling on Darshan is that, after seeing M. on video and on stage, when you finally get to be in his presence, you do get a sort of contact high, which I call ''meeting a CELEBRITY''. I have met movie stars like Robin Williams, Dennis Weaver and Marsha Mason, and also Senator Diane Feinstien. I got a contact high from them all. It's like you see them on TV or in movies, you sort of feel like you know them, then when you meet them in person, there is this feeling, even if you don't particularly like them.

When I met Robin Williams, I had only ever seen him in the TV show, ''Mork and Mindy'', which I thought was really stupid. I was not impressed, I thought Williams was an idiot. Yet when I met him, he smiled at me and said hello. I didn't tell him I saw his show and thought it was stupid. I got a tingly feeling; I became super aware, everything was sharp and clear. I don't know how to describe it. I smiled back, involuntarily. I felt embarrased. I call it a ''Celebrity Contact High''.

Now when you combine that feeling with an Expectation, like you are going to experience GOD when you see this person, or mass hysteria induced from waiting in line for hours, or other subtle or not so subtle programming methods, it's not supprising that so many people say they felt something. The question is, what was that something, and how much of it was interpreted through expectations? When I went to see M., I wasn't expecting to see God, I wasn't LOOKING to see God, and I didn't. Ever. I did get a Celebrity Contact High, though.

So is this yet another example of a Rhadasoami Guru technique, of taking something that happens in the human experience anyway, and then claiming it's super-natural, and eminates from the special divine ju-ju-ness of the Guru?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 22:14:51 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Charles S.
Subject: Keeping information current... ''Contact High''
Message:
Thanks Charles, you really said it all.
I tend to get a bit star struck when occasionally I'm around fomous people, and I think the whole thing is magnified to extremes when you 'believe' you are in the presence of a divine incarnation, a holy saint, a messiah, an enlightened being, a satguru. BUT, the whole experience comes from within yourself, you're right about that...In fact my own experiences of darshan were always a little wierd and disappointing.

The very first one was in Delhi 1971,( I had travelled overland in search of a guru! ) Someone said go ask him for Knowledge and when I got there, there was a darshan line, I met an old friend from England who had got knowledge and come over on the jumbo jet. He satsanged me for hours and then said 'turn your right ear to him and he will give you the breath of grace.'( oh yeah whats that? Sounds good to me )) So when it was my turn, I put my right ear on his foot and looked up to see him looking down at me with a very strange expression on his face!! Like what the fuck?!! And there have been many more..I hope I'll get it all down in my journey one day.

love kelly

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 19:15:24 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: ok (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 00:57:27 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Facts about darshan
Message:
Even though it has been greatly scaled down darshan lines still happen. Not everywhere, true.

It can and does happen in places like Malaysia, Taiwan, Mauritius. People (westerners) travel to places known to have it just for this reason.

In India sometimes, westerners who go there early to do service if lucky are put on the list, can go through their own 'westerner' darshan line. Sometimes it has been more general, ie with the Indians.

In halls in New Zealand and Australia (Brisbane) in about '96 he had darshan lines. As has already been stated at Amaroo in '97 and in 2000 with those sponsers. Malaysia 2000.

People are given the choice, they don't have to go through if they don't want to, they are also given the choice of how they go through - kissing feet, touching feet, bowing to feet or just walking past feet.

Some people take off their shoes before going through, some don't.

m has his shoes off, feet on cushion.

Has happened after some conferences/meetings/trainings.

'Private' darshan (i.e., kiss/touch feet) also still happens (i.e., one on one).

Most from the '70's and early '80's love darshan and want it to happen and talk about it, not openly. I know I believed it was something of the highest order.

I don't believe the knowledge-lite era people have the same enthusiasm.

There seemed to be a very short lived phase of shaking his hand, touching his arm etc. He would be standing on the same level as everyone else, no cushion or feet.

C


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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 02:10:19 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: Connie
Subject: Forgot to add
Message:
There is no guarantee that darshan will happen, it is a possibility that sometimes becomes an actuality.

The word darshan itself is in one way a relic from the '70's.

As with others from then, the word darshan in the west has also probably evolved into a more user friendly one.

Meant to also mention in India, selected westerners have also been put on a list to sing arti in his presence by themsleves. To some, highly sought after. This also does not happen as rule of thumb.

C

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 10:05:07 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Connie
Subject: Forgot to add ..some more
Message:
Hi Connie, I love your name btw.
They also held darshan in England in 1999, but only for the Indian premies, plus, I guess a few select others! I think it was held in London.

That arti business in India. I don't know anything about holding it in private, but arti is sung at the end of each day's programme, and a selection of indian and western premies are specially chosen to wave the trays. I did it once myself...such a privilege! Cringe cringe!

This is one of the things that has bugged me for some time, that he allows this continuing worship of himself as 'lord' to carry on unabated in the east, whilst totally denying it in the west.
Kelly

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 02:52:05 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: I do have a dry humour, I think I'm funny (nt)
Message:
gggg
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 23:16:10 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Thanks Kelly.
Message:
The whole darshan thing is absurd. It's absurd in India and it's absurd everywhere else too. And sorry, I just get apalled at the lies. I guess I take it personally, because this was all very much a part of my life and I really hate it when it's lied about. Thanks.
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 22:46:06 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Kelly , you need some tantric sex
Message:
to break that bhakti juju spell - with a kind and adventurous lover of course. Bhakti is best done by consenting adults in the privacy of their own home.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 10:08:49 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Thanks for the suggestion,
Message:
but I just don't feel like it this morning!
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 16:04:25 (GMT)
From: TED Farkel
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Kelly, let TED know if he can help you with thatnt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 00:16:44 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: Kelly, let TED know if he can help you with thatnt
Message:
May I refer you to my post above, or it may be below, I've slightly lost my sense of direction, if you know what I mean!
You're very kind, anyway.
Kelly
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 21:42:08 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: A lotus foot in one world and Gucci-shod foot
Message:
in the other. He wants it both ways. Can't work. If he is honest and returns to the old ways in the west (Krishna etc) he will only appeal to Hindu hippies. To reach a larger market he has adopted the televangelist role and revisionism and secrecy. Stinks.

What Way says about shaktipat is important. Darshan simply means seeing the guru. Puja is kissing the feet or singing arti etc and the shaktipat is part of the bhakti juju. It is a well-known spritual trick and often involves waiting in lines for a long time in order to focus on's expectations and longings. The rest is auto-suggestion and mas-hysteria.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 21:57:31 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: More that marketing
Message:
I think at some point Maharaji realized he might get run out of his beloved Malibu, where he lives in that theme park of his, if he continued to have foot-kissing going on in the USA. That's why it doesn't happen here, only in India, and in the outback of Australia, where only people who have been screened and given identity cards are allowed in.

And considering his meager number of followers in the West, toning it down didn't work, and I think that may be why he is at least doing darshan in Amaroo. It might psych up all those relics from the 70s to give more money.

See, all those people were indoctrinated to believe that you have a high experience in darshan, and that it wipes away years of karma, or at least it does something good. At least it's a blast of nostalgia for them, and that group seems to be all Maharaji has left. They are at least running everything, such as it is.

But it does expose Maharaji's lie. You can't, on the one hand, claim you are an ordinary person and just a teacher of meditation, and then have people line up, and kiss his feet, even if it technically isn't a 'kiss' anymore.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 17:44:08 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Way, forgot to add
Message:
Thanks for the update -- I always find this type of information interesting.

I guess what I was saying in a roundabout way -- my tea hasn't taken effect yet, you see -- is that there may be no contest between Satpal and Prempal. Satpal may have won the 'war' years ago. Plus as others have pointed out, the lineage was a bit phony to begin with. I believe the scenario is that Shri Hans was self-proclaimed himself. So Satpal had some family history there on how to seize a lineage holding, and take some of the followers with you.

Maharaji described Shri Hans becoming satguru in a satsang once. He said that when Shri Hans' master died, 'everyone was grabbing for the microphone' but that Shri Hans was the true ordained guru and lineage holder and basically that the other guy (or guys) were phonies. Yeah, right.

Does anyone out there know if Kir Pal Singh was one of the 'guys grabbing for the microphone' in the race for becoming god that M described?

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 14:25:55 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: rawat you boofhead
Message:
fuck you for disabling the back button and opening your site on the same page, you made me loose my bloody file you stupid idiot. Who taught you how to design websites you big fat ass Indian rip-off merchant son of a bitch. Even your mother suck, YOU GOT ME, you bastard poofta. Am coming to Amaroo you mongrel and am going to ruin your fucking plans you shit head. You just wait until you start waffling on your first day and see where the shit gonna come flying at you, you murderer poof. Better put yourself in a glass box like that other poofta the pope. I will be exepecting nothing less than you gracing me with a good look and a rub of them mighty boobs of yours, you little midget of a cunt.


rawat is a Sucker

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 17:51:39 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Brilliant, the credit check on Ivory's rock ...
Message:
conference center. Is that owned by the LOTA or EV?

I'm talking about your link, 'what's cooking at the Rock,' on your website. The date of the credit check is recent, too, as in last Saturday, 2/24/01.

They went off the credit rating scale, at 18.73 worse than Credit Advantage average. It looks like it's going bust.

Maybe you got this off Forum V. Either way, good job salam, and whomever else dug this up!

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 18:31:54 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Francesca and salam
Subject: Brilliant, the credit check on Ivory's rock ...
Message:
Yes, I saw it too. salam posted it a few days ago here. That's the kind of hard data that proves that the cult is in a financial crisis. And Capt. Rawat's greed.

Good work, salam.

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 09:37:03 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Brilliant, the credit check on Ivory's rock ...
Message:
thank you both, the credit goes to my credit card that negotiated the deal and my little fingures that did the walking.

More is comming, will post.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 14:12:50 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: A gathering of thoughts
Message:
Anybody here ever get real inspired to say something that seemed profound and right on, then it disappeared by the time you got to the keyboard? Me too. But today I got a whole herd of thoughts at once and I wanted to jot them down and perhaps they could become good seeds of dialog.

1) The plusses and minuses: Acknowledging and honoring both positive and negative experiences with and around Maharaji and EV

2) Why are we pissed at him for being so typically human for this day and age? Because he came on like he was beyond the worldly ways and then acted otherwise? Could is be that God Almighty is still Himself figuring out how to wear this human spacesuit without its CPU malfunctioning? Example: If we had friends who had lovers and wives, and did questionable things with their money, would we be as indignant towards them out of principle or would we still be friends with them because they did not try to tell us they were God? Sounds Vonnegutian.

3) In the clearest reality, does God have to follow the same rules we do, the ones we think are mandatory to pass the holiness litmus test? Or is the Creator free to alter, change, modify, delete, add, emphasize and diminish all the laws that humans have come to know as the way it oughtta be?

4) Should being disillusioned with Maharaji stop someone from believing in God? Why? Maharaji invited everyone including atheists to receive Knowledge. He took that part of the religious thing out of it - disassociating self-realization from the established and spiritually gutted religions, and that was good. Losing that feeling that was once there with Maharaji is not just that. Roots extend years into the past of such a person, and all the time and love and committment on the inside of that person, all the determination to find Truth, God, Peace, whatever you called it....are intimately tied to how one feels about Maharaji, who was the leprechaun leaning on the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow in our hearts, saying it was always right here where you left it, which leads us to...

5) How cold something so right be so wrong? (If you don't think there's anything of substance to Knowledge, then this one is not for you, so please skip this one.) For those of us who have felt something good and deep and real with Knowledge, you know of thatwhich I speak.. For me, it's like STP treatment in my oil and gas. Life still goes on, shit still hapeens, but I am operating from a very calm, peaceful, spontaneously organized and feeling in sync with the universe kind of place of harmony, while still being quite effective here in 3D land. So for me, I know there is something very real going on with Knowledge. Faced with all the sad bad news about the dysfunctional history of Premieworld, I am somewhat shattered like a cubist Picasso self portrait inside, in one shard being quite clear and anatomically correct, and in another, a nose coming out of my neck or something, an ear in my forehead...o my God, have I hsattered into a million pieces and this is how it is from now on????? NOT! As a man thinketh, so is he,and I think I'll be alright, just fine, and all this too, shall pass.

I am not trying to be the social director or the dialog director or anything like that. I just got a whole bunch at once downloaded and I wanted to lay it out here. Take what you need and leave the rest, and please take it in the spirit it was offered. Peace.

Sandy
Sandy

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 01:09:11 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: La la la la tip toe threw the tulips!(nt)
Message:
rainbow farts, sweet and sticky! The worlds on fire-get real!
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 00:12:05 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: A gathering of thoughts/ and a few more thoughts
Message:
Should being disillusioned with Maharaji stop someone from believing in God?

Sandy, I have watched your posts and have observed your interactions here with many issues and conflicts. I arrived here recently with the many of the same conflicts, the same issues and it took me about 6 weeks to break free from 29 years of delusion and resolve many of my issues. I have been reluctant to engage you because you seem to want create an arguement in favor of your limitations more than you are willing to discuss the possibility of making a breakthrough.

I want to quote you something that Maharaji once said, 'If a man is clever you need only tell him once to come to you, if a man is not so intelligent you must tell him to first put down the right foot, then the left foot and so on'

I might be wading into deep water here, and hopefully you will hear the sincerity and feel my genuine concern. I am not insulting your intelligence, but I am wondering why you are taking so long wrestling with the same people going over the same issues month after month.

A good question to start with relative to your post would be this; if there where no Maharaji would there still be God? Assuming that you want to believe in God the answer would have to be yes.
So why don't you stop being disillusioned with Maharaji and start believing in God then if that is what you want?
Forgive me for drawing assumptions, but you do sound like and present yourself as a seeker of truth. I will also draw another assumtion here, and I say this from my own recent experience.

Your conflict I think comes from this , and since you attribute much to Maharaji you should be able to relate, It appears that you are attached to Maharaji. And you know what Maharaji says about attachment, attachment is the cause of all suffering.

Hey I was, that was my biggest hangup, I really wanted to keep the story alive for myself of me and the perfect master and how my devotion would one day liberate me into the realm of eternal cosmic consciousness.

I still believe that there is a higher power and that we have the capacity to be aware of it. I do not think that Maharaji is the ticket anymore, in fact he is a hinderance if you are really in search of the truth. Because at some point you have to let go of your attachment to the illision of who he is to find out the reality of who you are. Why do you still think that you need someone to lead you to the promised land? What is wrong with your own judgement your own reality? You want to find God, Why can't you find your own way? Do you lack so little trust in yourself that you think that you still need a father figure to tell you that you are on the right track?

And when was the last time that Maharaji spoke to you in person or directly guided you anyway? I say that whatever you have got out of this you pretty much got on your own through your own efforts all along. You are at the liberty of of your own experience in meditation and your own discretion to interpret all of what he tells you via video broadcasts. The problem is we corrupt our perception with blind devotion, and/or the proverbial rose colored glasses.

Maharaji came along and showed you a handful of ancient meditation techniques, shared some age old wisdom that has been passed along for centuries and is that supposed to make him the lord of your life? You filled in the blanks through your own desire for enlightenment and effort after that, take your rose colored glasses off.
If you are in search of the truth, Maharaji is just a short stop for soda pop. And religion is no better, trust yourself, trust your own inner instincts to tune into your own truth.

You want to believe in something ,learn to believe in yourself, trust yourself, strike out on your own, cut your own path, be your own Guru. You have enough background, history and knowledge by now to graduate into your own being.

Sandy, I would really like to see you make a major breakthrough I hope that this is what you are interested in as well. Why else would you hang out here for so long?

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 10:54:03 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: A gathering of thoughts/ and a few more thoughts
Message:
Hi Brian,
That was an excellent post. I just wanted to remind you, Sandy, and everyone else, about the excellent article from the 'Sceptical Enquirer' that cq posted below, in a thread called 'Why Bad Beliefs Don't Die'

Actually, you, Brian, obviously don't need reminding! I read it last night and was very impressed. It is especially appopriate for debate on this forum.

You just can't talk someone out of their beliefs, they have to see it for themselves, but at a very deep level. The truth is important and facts do matter, which is why they need to be accurate, but they alone won't crack it.
Kelly

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 22:27:34 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Sandy:
Message:
There are many intelligent responses to your thoughts posted below. A common thread running through them is the suggestion that you consider that your experiences have everything to do with you (and maybe God, according to your beliefs) and nothing to do with Maharaj Ji.

Are you willing to entertain this possibility? And if not, why not?

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 23:02:31 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Gregg
Message:
'There are many intelligent responses to your thoughts posted below. A common thread running through them is the suggestion that you consider that your experiences have everything to do with you (and maybe God, according to your beliefs) and nothing to do with Maharaj Ji.

Are you willing to entertain this possibility? And if not, why not?' -Gregg

Gregg,

The (and maybe God) part of your post includes everyone including Maharaji. It's a kink in my think. But I totally understand what you are saying. I invested ALOT of my head attention and heart into whatever I did over the years, including this. Come on, don't you think everyone including me would like to be strong, straightforward, concise, centered and stable? This whole thing makes me feel the opposite, for Christ's sake! Weird stuff.

But you can't push the river, can't pull off the snake's skin, can't squeeze an egge out of a chicken, etc. I am not where I was in the past and in the future I will not be where I am now, in terms of changing my viewpoint based on the experiences that I seek out and life provides through a combination of personal experiences and other people's input which I may find valuable.

Sandy

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 23:18:07 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Sure cure for Maharaj Jism blues
Message:
Sandy did you ever see the video of Rev Rawat talking about propagation in November last year. If you didn't then rent it from your local premie library. I guarantee that by the time you have finished watching it you will see that he is no better than Jimmy Swaggart only he's more of a braggart. The Bratguru is the Billy Graham of charismatic revivalist evangelical yoga.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 01:20:17 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: For sure Pat.
Message:
I saw the one vid where Mufflebutt's doing this show at this arena. What a pompus little ego driven twurp! This stupid fat baby 'smell my feet and wipe my ass, then worship the toilet paper' look on his face. He was such a cheese ball in the interview with the press, totaly avoiding the whole 'I will bring peace to the world thing'! And his brother directing that cheese ball band of his! That was so fucken funny! He's all sweaten and stuff like he's really worken hard up there. Cheese cheese cheese. It was great for a laugh. Jim showed it to me. Ask him what vid it was. I can't remember the name. It was put out by premies I think, but the whole thing back fired. Like most of them I imagine.
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 23:10:21 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Sandy - what happened?
Message:
Do you still have a copy of your deleted post? If so, please re-read it, and if you wish, repost it.

You displayed honesty about the pain you are feeling, and your mental conflict. This is lacking in your posts in this thread.

Using old cult language, you sound now like you're 'in your mind':-)

John.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 21:12:38 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Sandy, stop picking your scabs - sores won't heal
Message:

I am sorry that your earlier posts were deleted. I heard clarity, strength and self-confidence in your voice. Now I find this and it seems that you are back to square one having gone around in a circle back to where you were a month ago.

I haven't been around long enough but it seems, from what I have read here, that you have been doing this for two years. As I explained in my ''Dark Night of the Soul'' post, I did it for almost ten years so I will give you the benefit of the doubt and answer your post seriously and assume that it is sincere and not just a triple-Aries attention grabbing tactic.

However I must tell you now that if you continue to go round in circles I will begin to sympathize with Jim's lack of patience with you. I do not have the patience to iterate my thoughts again and again aso this is the only time I will address you concerns.

You say: ''Why are we pissed at him for being so typically human for this day and age?''

I am not pissed at him for being so typically human for this day and age because he is NOT typical. He has set himself as a MASTER. That is not a typical human being. Most of the TYPICAL human beings that I personally know are not nearly as greedy or arrogantly insouciant.

You say: ''Because he came on like he was beyond the worldly ways and then acted otherwise?''

Most of the Hindu avatars and human gods were extrememly worldly and made terrible mistakes and slaughtered thousands of innocents, burned the wives at the stake, fucked their brains out and otherwise misbehaved. It is a Hindu tradition and completely antithetical to all ethical and moral values which we respect in the west.

You say: ''Could is be that God Almighty is still Himself figuring out how to wear this human spacesuit without its CPU malfunctioning?''

I know what you are trying to say but I have reached the conclusion that there is no invisible GOD ALMIGHTY. We are it - fullstop! And yes, we are trying to figure out how to use the human body and intelligence. If you want to use the word god then use it to say that god is 6 billion human beings and the only way to run the show is DEMOCRATICALLY. No Lords or Masters. And Hinduism did not invent space suits or CPUs. They invented silly Krishna crap, worship cows and burn their widows and have the largest number of slaves in the world TODAY.

You say: ''Example: If we had friends who had lovers and wives, and did questionable things with their money, would we be as indignant towards them out of principle or would we still be friends with them because they did not try to tell us they were God? Sounds Vonnegutian.''

Vonnegut spent 40 years drinking himself into a stupor everyday. And yes I forgive my friends and lovers because none of them has tried to mindfuck me by saying that they would give me peace if I gave them my love.

You say: ''In the clearest reality, does God have to follow the same rules we do, the ones we think are mandatory to pass the holiness litmus test?''

As I said there is no Supreme Being. We are all we've got and yes we do have to follow the same rules as everybody else when it comes to common decency. As for the holiness litmus test - it is different in the west and mostly has to do with modesty, compassion and honesty not lilas, immorality or lifting weights with penises as many holy men in India do.

You say: ''Or is the Creator free to alter, change, modify, delete, add, emphasize and diminish all the laws that humans have come to know as the way it oughtta be?''

Where the hell is this CREATOR? What we see here on earth is ALL that we have and sure we can bend the rules a bit. Most innovators have and thus we have Einsteins and Beethovens. But we do live a a democratic society based on the rule of law and NO ONE is above the law.

You say: ''Should being disillusioned with Maharaji stop someone from believing in God? Why?''

Yes, because the GOD thing is a bunch of primitve of superstition which the Bratguru has traded on. The word GOD is LOADED with millions of individual concepts which he pretended is the same for everybody and has parlayed into a god-marketing business.

You say: ''Maharaji invited everyone including atheists to receive Knowledge. He took that part of the religious thing out of it - disassociating self-realization from the established and spiritually gutted religions, and that was good.''

Excuse me what about all the Krishna-ism which was shoved down our throats. Sure he doesn't do it in the west anymore but HE STILL DOES PUSH HINDUISM IN INDIA TO THIS DAY.

You say: ''Losing that feeling that was once there with Maharaji is not just that. Roots extend years into the past of such a person, and all the time and love and committment on the inside of that person, all the determination to find Truth, God, Peace, whatever you called it....are intimately tied to how one feels about Maharaji, who was the leprechaun leaning on the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow in our hearts, saying it was always right here where you left it, which leads us to...''

Time to grow up and cut yourself loose from the drunken leprechaun's apron strings, Sandy. The pot of gold was always inside of you and is available to you ONLY BY YOUR OWN EFFORTS. The Bratguru's pot of gold is in a Swiss bank account.

You say: ''How cold something so right be so wrong? (If you don't think there's anything of substance to Knowledge, then this one is not for you, so please skip this one.) For those of us who have felt something good and deep and real with Knowledge, you know of that which I speak.''

What is Knowledge? Is it the same for you as it is for me or the Bratguru. What are you talking about? Rawat trades on making people think that there is a uniform and universal experience called Knowledge. How can we ever know? It's an inner feeling and therefore unknowable and undescribable to anyone else. It's all nudge-nudge wink-wink. Don't you see?

You say: ''For me, it's like STP treatment in my oil and gas. Life still goes on, shit still hapeens, but I am operating from a very calm, peaceful, spontaneously organized and feeling in sync with the universe kind of place of harmony, while still being quite effective here in 3D land.''

Good for you. I'm so glad that you have an inner experience that makes you feel nice while the shit happens. That is your creation. You created that feeling. I won't knock that. I believe it is very important to practice equanimity in face of the shit especially, as happened to me in the past few years, when one's body goes on the fritz.

You say: ''So for me, I know there is something very real going on with Knowledge. Faced with all the sad bad news about the dysfunctional history of Premieworld, I am somewhat shattered like a cubist Picasso self portrait inside, in one shard being quite clear and anatomically correct, and in another, a nose coming out of my neck or something, an ear in my forehead...o my God, have I hsattered into a million pieces and this is how it is from now on????? NOT! As a man thinketh, so is he,and I think I'll be alright, just fine, and all this too, shall pass.''

Just start realizing that what you call Knowledge has come about through your own efforts and has nothing to do with the greedy Hindu businessman from Hardwar and all your fractured Picasso-esque dark night of the soul shit will suddenly resolve itself and become like a beautiful sane clear and healthy portrait of the Mona Lisa with an enigmatic smile of self-contenment, self-confidence and strength of character and purpose.

Good luck, Sandy but please stop picking the scabs off your wounds. They will never heal that way.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 18:35:20 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Saw a great t- shirt sandy
Message:
It said PROCRASTINATE NOW.

You can work it out

THINK man : THINK !

And stop mixing Maharaji up with the wonderful experiences.

Happy hunting
Hal

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 17:42:00 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Saw a great t- shirt sandy
Message:
This one tickled me:

'I am never in denial!'

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 18:13:07 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: A gathering of replies
Message:
Obviously, most of us exes will find much in your posting with which to disagree. You know there are some here who will label it all horseshit. Let me share my viewpoints on some of these issues with you.

'2) Why are we pissed at him for being so typically human for this day and age?'

Well, it's one thing if a friend makes bad choices. It would certainly lessen him in our estimation of his character, more so if his bad choice impacted others negatively. But when a person who has much power over many people makes bad choices and acts dishonestly, that's much worse. Especially if that person exerts power in the realm of religion/spirit, where ethics are supposed to matter.

'all the determination to find Truth, God, Peace, whatever you called it....are intimately tied to how one feels about Maharaji, who was the leprechaun leaning on the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow in our hearts, saying it was always right here where you left it,'

I couldn't disagree with you more on this one. Perhaps this is true for you, but for me, M has nothing to do with my current spiritual experience, for the better or for the worse. Of course, I've been out of the cult for more than twenty years, so there's quite a bit of psychic distance there.

'So for me, I know there is something very real going on with Knowledge.'

I couldn't agree with you more...although I disagree with the premise that Maharaj Ji had anything to do with 'Knowledge.' From your description of 'Knowledge' I'm assuming it means that state of spiritual awareness that feels so right and seems to add so much meaning to life. Please consider that this gift has WAY more to do with your readiness and your practice and your expectations than any spiritual powers possessed (or not) by Prem Pal Rawat.

As far as question #3, regarding whether or not God has to obey the same rules as we do...this is a pretty complicated question, discussion of which would be facilitated by shared assumptions about God and guru, assumptions we probably don't share. But one thing seems obvious to me: Guru Maharaj Ji is not and never has been God in human form, any more than you and I and Timothy McVeigh are.

In short, I really think you ought to consider letting go of your concepts about Maharaji, to turn one of his tenets on its head. For, you see, despite what you say above, DLM/EV IS a religion, even though the belief system might be a little more simplistic than some traditions. If the concept of Maharaj Ji as some sort of spiritual master helps you out, great, but why not adopt a belief system which has more correspondence with reality? There may be some genuine teachers out there, mixed in with all the frauds. Use your God-given intelligence to tell the difference.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 16:42:37 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: my take on this
Message:
2) Why are we pissed at him for being so typically human for this day and age?

Because he hurt me and people I loved. His abuses are not typical.

3) In the clearest reality, does God have to follow the same rules we do, the ones we think are mandatory to pass the holiness litmus test?

Assuming that God can manifest specifically as a single person (which I doubt), YES. Why not? The rules are the rules. To say otherwise makes the whole issue of 'holiness' meaningless. There is such a thing as right and wrong, and Rawat has done wrong. There is this concept of 'all-powerful' in the sense of making the absurd make sense or the impossible possible, turning wrong into right, etc. I don't think this 'all-powerfulness' exists. Not everything is possible, things are what they are, there are rules, things happen a certain way. This is not an 'anything goes' universe. As to the terms right and wrong, I feel these are relative to our situation as living creatures. They are relative, but they do have meaning.

4) Should being disillusioned with Maharaji stop someone from believing in God?

Not necessarily, but what do you mean by God? The all-powerful alpha male?

5) How cold something so right be so wrong?

Feeling a calm from focusing on your breath (or whatever else, like enjoying each other's company) and Rawat's abuses are two different things, so your question is meaningless.

Consider a hatha yoga cult. Stretching and exercising are good for some people, but that doesn't justify someone making a destructive cult out of them. Stonor saw people bow down to their hatha yoga teacher, so cults like that exist. It's weird, but it doesn't make stretching bad for you.


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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 16:14:26 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Sandy is not Sandy
Message:
This isn't the same Sandy who posted that intelligent, sensitive, honest post on that thread that the FA deleted.

The person who wrote that was thinking clearly. The one who wrote this one is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Shame, the other Sandy seemed quite human, but I guess it was just someone who shared the same name, and didn't know there already was a Sandy posting here.

John.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 20:39:23 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: post-traumatic thread deletion syndrome,that's it
Message:
Wow man, I know wha' you mean. Ummmm ummmm, I'll be OK give me a few minutes to....catch my breath.
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 15:32:27 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Answer: yes BUT WHAT ABOUT LIKELIHOOD?
Message:
Could is be that God Almighty is still Himself figuring out how to wear this human spacesuit without its CPU malfunctioning?

I can't believe you're still insulting us and yourself with this stupid game of yours. For the ten billionth time, yes, it's possible! No one could ever deny it. It is possible that God Almighty is still Himself figuring out how to wear this human spacesuit ... blah, blah, blah.

BUT IT IS SO UNLIKELY, SUCH AN ABSURD POSSIBILITY THAT IT ISN'T WORTH MENTIONING. ANYONE WHO TAKES IT SERIOUSLY, AND THINKS THAT THIS IS SOME EXCUSE TO CONTINUE TO THINK MAHARAJI'S THE LORD OF THE UNIVERSE IS A FUCKING IDIOT!!

But why do you ask? Hm, interesting.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 20:40:44 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I thought it wasn't Forum etiquette to yell....
Message:
(nt)
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 01:39:40 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: la la la la tip toe threw the tulips!(nt)
Message:
lame!
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 15:08:17 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: A gathering of thoughts
Message:
Dear Sandy,
I have opinions about m but don't see him connected to the meditation at all so I'll just reply to that part of your post. If you think of him as God then that is for you to sort out and I wish you luck.
Of course you can have a wonderful experience of the meditation techniques. I am so glad that I always thought of them as expressions I could have, that anyone could have if shown. That they were abilities we had as humans. You have a solid experience with the meditation, no matter what that is a fact that can't be taken from you. If you find them valuable then with or without m they can remain so.
Even when I was a premie in darshan line I saw a disinterest in m as I approached and caught his eye. It turned me off. If he was at least honest about his 'human' fralilties and admitted his wrong doings that would be a step but he hasn't and I doubt he ever will and yes I have had to distance from some friends because of the turns they took in their lives. All is not acceptable.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 18:07:47 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Sandy : here's an idea to try
Message:
God bless you man. You are definitely conflicted and the belief structure is deep and there's no way you can just stop believing what you believe until you see past it. So here's a suggestion.

Take your conflicted thoughts, your 'big what ifs', your fear of being wrong, your sincere desire to know the truth for yourself. Take all that and go watch a satellite video or sit down by yourself and watch a video of Maharaji - the Master of Knowledge. And while you watch it, allow all of those conflicts and questions and desire to know bubble to the surface. Along with the love you may feel, the nostalgia, the longing. Then keep watching his face while you tell yourself that #1 He said he was greater than God, #2 He said the ashram was for life, #3 He said marriage was bad, #4 He said Knowledge is free, #5 He accidentally killed a fellow human being and allowed a devotee take the rap, #6 He's serially sexually abused female devotees , # 7, #8, #9, #9, #9 .........................

Love you man,
Postie - who tore his good pants trying to sit on the barb wire fence too long

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 01:27:21 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: A regular Charlie Manson!
Message:
You know there's still people who think he's god too! Still nostalgic for the good times at Spawn. Aint now different! Especially when your talken bout murder and getten others to take the rap?
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 20:43:17 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: Sandy : here's an idea to try
Message:
Love you man,
Postie - who tore his good pants trying to sit on the barb wire fence too long

Postie,
I will probably print your post and do just that, listen to a video with the post on my lap. Hope you didn't scratch your bits and pieces when you tore your pants.
Sandy

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 22:25:13 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: I forgot the last step
Message:
Then be honest about the way you feel and what you think. And follow that where ever it takes you - towards Maharaji or away. It's your path and your life.

If you need to deal with the emotions, Discultas emotional inventory is great. It's in an inactive thread 'PWK's, Ex's, Premies,....'

Good luck,

Postie

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 11:00:27 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: anthginn@yahoo.com
To: Everyone
Subject: London Latvian Night March 10th.
Message:
Hi,

We are organising another Latvian evening in London.

These events are proving popular all around the world. A Latvian Night is when three or more Ex-premies meet up for fun, food, drink and entertaining discourse. (Less than three is a date.)

The first of these meetings took place in the Latvian club in London, but as the club has now closed, and we are having the meeting elsewhere.

The plan is, we meet in the bar of the London Swallow International Hotel, on Cromwell Rd, between 6 and 7 oclock in the evening, on March 10th. We then head off for a meal somewhere, and probably back to the hotel afterwards. We may even eat in the hotel- venue for food is still under review.

At the moment, this looks like it may be our biggest Latvian night ever, and there will be special surprise guests of recent Ex-premies.

The only agenda is that we all enjoy ourselves.

There is no registration, no voluntary donation and no Smart Card required.

If you want to stay in the hotel, one of our colleagues has shares in it, and can get you a discount rate.

Email me for details.

Anth the social butterfly on Zelta

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:26:07 (GMT)
From: TED Farkel
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Regretfully,....
Message:
ole TED can't make this here Latvian shindig this time, but I promise I will be there in spirit...

also, I plan to be waving the hub cap/arti tray at about 9pm EST, in honor of the Latvians, and their fine country of Latvia...all are welcome to join TED and espress their gratitude in any appropriate and synchronized way...

Synchronistically yours,
TED Farkel

Anth, would you mind keepin an 'eye' on Marianne, especially after the foamies are up in full gear?
I think the world of that pup...

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 10:42:03 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: Arrangements have been made.
Message:
Hi Ted,

Marianne is a vetran at Latvian gigs, and we have learned how to take care of her.

We have wheelbarrow to take her back to the hotel.

A kitty of $600 to pay any fines she incurs.

A doctors letter to prove that whatever terrible thing she did was because of medical reasons.

And, for the odd emergency when she gets stroppy, an electro-prod.

Don't worry, she's in safe hands.

Anth the humanitarian world leader.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:57:46 (GMT)
From: Thelma
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Anth, save that electro-prod for the Holy Cow NT
Message:
h
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 16:17:44 (GMT)
From: TED Farkel
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Anth,that's nice,but what I was REALLY concerned..
Message:
about, was that none of you male exes over there would take advantage of my little pup Miss Marianne, when the foamies were being downed..

Now ole TED Farkel's not accusing anyone of anything,and like I say, I'm sure that the country of Latvia is a fine place, with fine people and fine customs...

It's just that I DO know that when the alcohol starts flowin, things can get a little outa hand sometimes....

Why even here at the TRAC Center, a fully authorized and synchronized part of the worldwide,non profit Elan Vital empire, and even with fully ordained saints like Mr. David Smith and the Raja himself, well, things can get pretty roudy at times when the spirits are flowing...

Thanks Mr. Ginn
TED Farkel
Just lookin out for that innocent little pup...

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 10:23:43 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: It's OK Ted.
Message:
Although we don't have smart cards, we continue the tradition of 'An usher per delegate', learned during our cult days. (See,we didn't all throw the baby out with the bathwater.)

We've learned from our experience on previous occasions, and Marianne has a personal usher and two personal security with two-way radios.

They are not to protect Marianne though Ted- they are to protect other delegates.

I don't know if you've heard about the Norse 'Berserkers', but in Paris, after three bottles of wine, a bottle of champagne, half a bottle of Pastis and a few cognacs, Marianne appeared to be reviving the tradition.

The restaurant has only recently reopened, and Marianne won't get past the airport if she goes back to France.

Anth the sensitive usher.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 13:52:45 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Hey you guys. Stop that!
Message:
Well, I am glad that no judges I appear in front of are ex-premies. I'm not sure I'd be allowed back in their courtrooms after they read these posts. You are making me out to be a much wilder woman than I actually am. Cut it out!

I don't have body guards. No one carted me around in a wheel barrow (except maybe my big brothers when I was 5 years old). The French Restaurant in question opened back up in August. I did not pick up the guy in the wine shop in Utrecht.

I am the most well behaved of the Latvian group. These posts are made to deflect attention from the true rabble rousers of the evening.

And don't worry TED, I'll stay true to you and eDrek. If you knew me really well, you'd know that I do not drink 'foamies'.

I hope all the newcomers aren't disappointed at how dull the evening will actually be.

Love, Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 23:55:56 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Saint Marianne...
Message:
...so, remember the restaurant in Montmarte?

How much holy wine did her holiness drink that day? I wonder if she can remember?

Saint Anthony of Nieuwegein.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 18:46:51 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Hey babes, can you give us a buzz? (nt)
Message:
a
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 17:33:19 (GMT)
From: TED Farkel
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: I'm sending 'Top Gun'(Dave Smith) to Latvia...
Message:
Dear Marianne and Mr. Ginn-

I'm gettin funny feelings the more I read and hear on this site about this here get-together in Latvia.

First of all, I can't seem to find the country of 'Latvia' anywhere on the map.Where is it?

I'm sure the Latvians are fine people, but I think this could get outa hand...real bad and real fast.

My associate, the esteemed Mr.eDrek, and myself, are concerned that it could quickly become 'Unsynchronised' and consequently not really be a true reflection of 'that love', 'that experience', or 'that Master'...and we wouldn't want that, would we?

Now, security is a bit thin worldwide right now because (this is 'first class' info, so kinda keep it under yer hat,OK?)so much of them security dudes is down here at the TRAC Center havin meetings about how to deal with the upcomin 'Runification/Mud Wrestling/Blue Aquarius Tour' this summer, after the shindig in amaroo.
As you can imagine, there may be a fair amount of 'unsavory' bongo types comin around, so security is on high alert these days..
BUT,seein as I care so much bout those innocent lil pups Marianne and Kelly, I'm willin to authorize the highly synchronized Mr. Dave Smith to come over for security for yer Latvian night...
Dave's changed a bit,we loosened him up here at the TRAC Center...he'll even have a foamie or two or ten with ya..

Just let me know,
County boy TED Farkel
(and Marianne, if you don't do foamies, I don't know WHAT you were imbibin here at the TRAC Center...)
BTW, Dave can bring a Vietnamese pot bellied pig as a gift, if ya'd like...just had one born the other day out back behind the outhouse where we do our drummin circle with the fellers on the full moons, after arti...

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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 00:06:43 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: I'm sending 'Top Gun'(Dave Smith) to Latvia...
Message:
Evening Mr Farkel,

I don't know if you've ever hear of a place called Yurp, but Latvia is in Yurp. It's between China and Texas.

Don't worry about Marianne and Kelly Roger. We've had a good offer for them from the Middle East, payment in oil, and commemorative George W Bush, victory velcro wallets.

Anth the international wheelie dealer and notorious cad

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:34:36 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: No need to worry, I'm her chaperone
Message:
And ,as everyone who knows me ( which is no-one! ha ha) will vouch, I am a sober upright citizen of high moral calibre, and I can assure you that with me around no one will dare to take advantage of her. Anyway, I have a black belt..... which I wear with my black boots, and black hand bag.
However TED, I am a little suspicious of your motives, after your somewhat suggestive post to me below..Would I be right in thinking you have your own designs on her?
I don't know why there's all this talk of wild Latvian nights anyway. Marianne assures me that she is always in bed before midnight!!
So rest assured, I will protect the innocent little pup from any wild Latvian wolves.
Stay on TRAC
love Kelly
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 17:29:01 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Will there be a Satellite Feed?
Message:
And will we need special equipment?

Also will a video of the event be available for purchase? How about a DVD?

And I would hope there wil be commerative watches and coffee cups available with the EPO logo.

The merchandizing possibilities are endless.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 18:16:51 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: No, but we will be on line
Message:
We'll log on some time that evening and say hello in real time. Those of this motley crew who want to publicly identify themselves will.

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 04:38:36 (GMT)
From: bill--will you let us kno
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: -w what EST hours you will probably be on line?..
Message:
agdfs
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 11:46:03 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: The Meal
Message:
If you intend to go for a meal with us, you must email Anth and tell him. We're going to have to make a reservation because there are so many of us.

Please email Anth to tell him you're going for dinner even if we've been in email contact with you about the soiree.

I am staying at the Swallow Hotel. If you need last minute information, you can reach me there Friday or Saturday.

Marianne Bachers, SP/EPO

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:08:52 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: BTW- what IS the logo of EPO??suggestions?
Message:
anybody
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Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 01:31:53 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: EPO Logo
Message:
How about a Krishna crown on fire.

A Challenger jet with a 'For Sale ' sign on it.

A big boot kicking Captain Rawat in Krishna suit through the air.

A tank rolling over a Mercedes 600, Ferrari, and Lambourghini.

Anth on fire and for sale.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:18:31 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Drek's boob site,unless we get something better nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:45:19 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: something better? some silly ideas
Message:
1--a premie meditating in lotus position, blowing a big bubble out of their breath in the shape of maharaji, and an ex p standing over them, on the other side of the bubble with a big pin, about to pop it.
2--a mob of ex p's with sticks, battering the hell out of a piņata of maharaji, with bundles of c notes spilling out all over the ground and more ex p's grabbing for their money back.
3.an image of maharaji in a cell gripping jail bars with one hand and making the fuck you one finger curse with the other, and a wanted warrant listing crimes he has committed and never been brought to justice for. would list:
manslaughterhit and runserial rapesexual abusedomestic violenceadulteryfraudimpersonation toxic waste dumping
the floor is now open to bidding and other nominations.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:49:09 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: something better? some silly ideas
Message:
What about a monkey/premie in lotus position with thumbs in ears, ' Don't tell me the truth, I don't want to hear'
Sorry can't do better at the moment, i'll work on it. Some of yours are great but a bit elaborate, we need something simple and punchy. What about a custard pie?
Kelly
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 10:12:00 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: 3 monkeys doing the techniques-hear no evil see no
Message:
evil, speak no evil?

actually i think we should be turning out all of these as t shirts and stickers. i like em all, so far. a good cartoonist or caricaturist could do em easily.

keep em coming

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 17:31:35 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: 3 monkeys doing the techniques-hear no evil see no
Message:
Yeah, that's where my idea came from, some sort of adaptation of that. I do cartoons occasionally, I'll have a go. It would be great to wear them as T shirts to EV events!! especially aspirant events...hmmm idea forming!
Love Kelly
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 22:01:43 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: 3 monkeys are good but how about 'Just Say Know'
Message:
In another thread someone mentioned a sticker by jondon that said 'Just Say Know - ex-premie.org'
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 19:24:43 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: or how about this -
Message:
click
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 20:43:53 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: or how about this -page not availble
Message:
is what I got when I clicked the link...Is that what you're trying to tell me? I'll try again later.

BTW, you know I said I'd lend you the Guru papers at latvian Night...I doubt I'll have finished it by then, I keep re-reading and finding new and fascinating information in chapters that I had previously thought irrelevent or uninteresting to me. But, you can definitely have it when I've finished it.

I look forward to meeting you, have you e-mailed Anth about the meal? we need to know numbers. it's looking Indian at the moment.
Love Kelly

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 15:46:22 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: A Swan W/ A Circle Around 'n Slash Through It...nt
Message:
mm
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:43:32 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: Dump truck full of rotting veggies...nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 08:46:44 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Latvian Nights and Foot and Mouth Disease
Message:
I don't know if they'll allow me back to France, and you to Ireland ....

Marianne, will you take care of disinfection ? What do you suggest ?

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 13:48:12 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Yes - it's very serious
Message:
As long as we all stay away from farms or other places with livestock we will all be allowed back into our countries.

But yes, it's very serious. Another four cases confirmed today in new locations. Watching the trucks taking the cows carcasses to be burnt is heartbreaking.

John the Latvian countryside dweller.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 11:30:06 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Latvian Nights and Foot and Mouth Disease
Message:
Bonjour Jean-Michel,

I am carrying the disease, but my doctor said, as long as you don't kiss me on the lips, or have intimate relations with me, you should be ok J-M.

Anth the cloven hoof.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 14:07:19 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: No problem, I'm vaccinated! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 09:35:01 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: delores@gofree.indigo.ie
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Latvian Nights and Foot and Mouth Disease
Message:
Yes, the Satanic Priestess will disinfect everyone at the end of the night's festivities. After having said 'Captain Rawat' so much, we'll need it by that time.

Are you coming? If you're being serious, I think since we're from urban areas, returning to urban areas, we're ok. I see that the authorities are talking about restricting travel, though.

Marianne

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 10:00:46 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Joking with serious isssues
Message:
I was both serious and facetious.

I don't know yet about the other stuff I had to take care on that week-end. I guess I'll know soon.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 11:57:43 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Joking with serious isssues
Message:
This foot and mouth thing is a really serious issue, not least because if they don't let Marianne back into Ireland I might be stuck with her for weeks, months maybe, and I just know I won't be able to stand the pace!
I do hope you can come Jean-Michel.
Love Kelly
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 06:14:34 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Hey everyone! It's me birthday today!!!!OT
Message:
Howdy everyone. Well here it is another year gone, and all I've done is played around on a crazy ex-cult forum and collected welfare cheques! Actually it's been the highlight of this year for me! Crap! Do I have have some problems or what! Just kidden yall! I'ts been really great chatten with everyone, and I really appreciate it when you include me, and take me seriously even though I have never been a premie. I enjoy the forum alot. Thanks everyone. Besides a few nasty quibbles here and there, it's been swell (I'm talken about all of us). Anyhow, been reading alot of the forum, but not poppen up to much. Just taking my first break is all. Feels good. Everyone here seems like good folk, and I'm sure their will be many more fun times ahead for us (me). My life is ok. Working hard with my band and getting things accomplished. Just about got a house gig worked out (every Friday and Saturday night), when I do I'll let you all know where it is down here, so if your ever in the garden city-come on down and I'll buy ya a drink and you can shake yo ass to some of the coolest shit this side of Sunday! Be cool, stay free, all ya need is love, a little cash, sex, a few friends, a good movie once in a while, food, air...bla bla bla etc.........
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 09:20:02 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: happy birthday Barry but don't call yourself
Message:
middle aged anymore please. You are just a baby at 36. I am twenty years older than you and I am not middle-aged. In fact I feel 24 except when I look in the mirror and see a fat balding greying old fart. And I intend to live to be 100 and play golf with Bob Hope in Palm Springs. I wish you health, wealth and happiness.
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 10:13:54 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Thanks Pat.
Message:
Your right man. I am just a young lad. Good to hear you feel forever young. Maybe buy some Greashon formula, and cool out on the ding-dongs? I don't know! Anyhow you sound like the 4 leaf clover has found it's way between your toes. later.
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 08:37:09 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Happy B-day Barry
Message:
Dear Barry,
I was going to start you a thread. Noticed you mention it in a post a few days ago and put you in my b-day calander. I use to catch most and started being known as the birthday goddess but have been slipping lots and am now the birthday goddess once removed.
Have a good one!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 08:58:14 (GMT)
From: Twiz
Email: whinavi@bigpond.com
To: Robyn
Subject: Happy B-day Barry
Message:
Hi Robyn and Happy Birthday Bazza,

Did you know that it is Johnny Cash's birthday today???
Quite a legend to share ones birthday with.

In case anyone has forgotten, I am the past poster who called himself Oliver and the odd other name. My computer crashed a few weeks ago and I decided to not bring it back to life and have a holiday. Currently in the city of Adelaide and am flying back home in a few days.

Too all those people I gave a hard time to, please forgive me. I have an explanation but no excuse. Of course some of you will know that the explanation is that I am crazy, but for the minute I have returned to the land of sanity.

I will now go and read some of the recent posts and check out what frivolity has been set down on this amusing site.

Blessings to all the premies, ex-premies and all those who have never heard of Maharaji.

Once again Bazza, Happy Birthday.

~~Phil Garratt

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 09:11:44 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Twiz
Subject: Ring of fire baby! Ring of fire!(nt)
Message:
kkkkkkk
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 09:29:32 (GMT)
From: Twiz
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Re. Ring of fire baby! Ring of fire!(nt)
Message:
Been there, done that, were you there?

See you around matey, maybe we can get to play some music sometime. I'm learning another instrument and I like to play with anyone, regardless of their background and beliefs.

Cheers.

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 10:19:34 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Twiz
Subject: Hey Twiz!
Message:
Ya I was once in the Klu Klux Kleenex Kinky Kitten Kissing Kings!
It was hard getten out, but I saw the light! Sure! Love playen tunes. Cool!
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 14:39:49 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Zo, can you tell me once more if you
Message:
are Barry the nut case or Buzza the bongo, I cann't figure out who the hell are you.

Also, what sort of cake you're having, personally, I love mud cakes, full of chocolate, grease and sticky, makes you like yourself all over. If you are getting one, eat a piece for me.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 07:53:30 (GMT)
From: Twiz
Email: twizgarratt@hotmail.com
To: salam
Subject: Where's my scanner? (Very OT.)
Message:
Hello you mad Arab impersonator,

I'm on holidays and have some outrageous photos I want to submit to 'Anything Goes.'

BTW, what is the address of AG if it still survives. I notice Sir Dave has gone into hibernation. I don't blame him, what's the weather going to be like on March 10th at the Latvian event? I think I prefer the heatwave in our neck of the woods.

If your reading this Dave could you send me the URL for Uncle Brian's punting site as my ISP does not seem to be able to find it for me and is being somewhat recalcitrant and I'm losing money.

Salam, have you seen the play Salam/Shalom yet? It's a good one and made me more sympathetic towards the Arab/Jewish shit fight that seems to have been going on forever.

Anyway, I digress. Do you still have that scanner 'under your table?'

Hooroo.

Twiz/Oliver etc.
Ps. Let he who is without
sin caste the first stone.
(boom, boom.)

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 19:49:29 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: The nut case! No cake!(nt)
Message:
hmmmmm?
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 08:55:59 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Cheers Robyn!(nt)
Message:
jjjjjj
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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 06:19:05 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Barry
Subject: Happy Birthday
Message:
Happy Birthday.

Could you do me a favour? If and when you're sober could you explain to me why you keep hanging around here and getting involved? There must be hundreds of thousands of bulletin boards on the internet. Why this one? Do you find this one different or special? If so, how?

I'm serious and sincere.

Best Regards,

Steve

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Date: Tues, Feb 27, 2001 at 08:54:12 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: No problem!
Message:
Met Jim. Wasn't long befor he told me about his years with Lord mufflebutt! Found it strange that an educated, seemingly smart, easy-going guitar player guy dedicated some good years to fatso!
I met my mom (I'm adopted) she too had been in a cult. She seemed like a smart woman, in control of her life and all that.
She was in a wierd one. They use to travel around the southern States wearing apostle robes and bare feet. They did good deeds and spread the word of their Christ in exchange for an early ride out-a-here! Rapture stuff! You know? Anyhow, I find their battle interesting and I amire it. They are basically at war with themselves all the time. They sometimes seem to be fighting for anyone who is a potential victom, or they are living in this agonizing grey zone wher their not sure who's to blame? The manipulator or themselves. They are embarrased sometimes, and crusading other times. They sometimes (I think!) feel themselves in a war with themselves. That must be hard. I respect that. It's amazing that Jim and my mom even have the strength to tell people of that mistake with such stigma around the word cult and all it's sub-groups. In a nutshell. You guys are an interesting breed to say the least! Me! I'm fighting a war with myself and the strange harsh cold Catholic strap. The memories and stuff they pumped into my head are hard to chuck, but with folks like you guys that truly bought the magic beans - and then gave them back with a punch in the face to boot! Well..I really admire that, and I'm sure you can help me along as well. It's easy for me to say ' ya I'm an ex catholic', but for you guys? I guess I like it here because you can learn more from the sucker than you can from sucker maker! Lick it up baby, your free!
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