Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 16:11:06 (GMT)
From: Feb 26, 2001 To: Mar 07, 2001 Page: 3 Of: 5


EBay Alert -:- Maharaj Ji and Apostles 'Living Gospel' 1973 LP -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 13:39:47 (GMT)
__ such -:- oh,oh! a flashback to the tambourine rehearsal (nt -:- Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 20:46:28 (GMT)

Pat Conlon -:- To be saved, send checks to Bratguru -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 01:49:03 (GMT)
__ janet -:- service. i have a theory... -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 10:36:53 (GMT)
__ __ Brian Smith -:- service. i have a theory... Right on -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 20:36:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Hi Brian -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 20:46:34 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Thanks for your theory, Janet -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 19:56:54 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Service -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 17:37:44 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Service -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 19:22:56 (GMT)
__ Michael Dettmers -:- To be saved, send checks to Bratguru -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 13:57:27 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- It is done, Michael NT -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 19:04:52 (GMT)
__ Patrick (formerly Anon) -:- My take on service -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 11:47:16 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- I had forgotten about ''surrender'' Patrick -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 19:10:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ JTF -:- What the hell did ''surrender'' mean?????? -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 22:51:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Surrender your will and remember me in your will -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 02:59:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JTF -:- Surrender your will and remember me in your will -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 03:41:13 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Service -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 10:49:01 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Anth, who knows what went wrong? -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 19:19:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- I blame... -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 23:03:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- I blame...The Incredible String Band -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 03:02:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ nigel -:- You Get Brighter / Greatest Friend -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 23:42:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- You Get Brighter / Greatest Friend -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 02:16:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Your posts today... -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 23:39:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- I'm detoxing -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 23:50:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bin Liner -:- It was never right , is what went wrong. -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 22:48:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Last night I watched a documentary -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 03:35:24 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- Benevelence... -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 15:58:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Not even earthquakes can stop a devotee from -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 19:26:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- We were very, very lucky -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 20:38:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- You betcha -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 22:20:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- You were very, very lucky -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 20:43:39 (GMT)

TD -:- Amaroo 2001 - Survivor III: Outhoax, Outswindle... -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:59:26 (GMT)
__ Aussi Ji -:- Amaroo 2001 - Survivor III: Outhoax, Outswindle... -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 09:27:53 (GMT)
__ __ TD -:- Amaroo 2001 - Survivor III: Outhoax, Outswindle... -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 21:31:48 (GMT)
__ G -:- Here's a better Amaroo -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 02:54:40 (GMT)
__ __ TD -:- I'll say...... that's a much better deal! nt -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 05:32:26 (GMT)
__ New-Age Redneck -:- Immunity Baragon....Now that's funny! (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 22:12:45 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- Hey, New-Age Redneck -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 23:06:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Anth the socially buttered pie. -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 05:27:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Anth the socially buttered pie. -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 10:14:09 (GMT)
__ __ Aussi Ji -:- what i was told about beragons' -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 09:21:49 (GMT)

g g g gerry -:- Maharaji, forgive me Lord -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:15:59 (GMT)
__ Brian Smith -:- Maharaji, forgive me Lord/ me too g g g gerry -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 00:41:39 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- I Got Out Of The Bath -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 00:37:09 (GMT)
__ Postie -:- Maybe it was actually God warning M.... -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:00:44 (GMT)
__ __ TED Farkel -:- Hold on Postie.Guru's greater than God,aint he?nt -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 03:50:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Postie -:- The Speaker formerly known as Satguru aint! (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 03:53:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ TED Farkel -:- I stand corrected!Think I'll have a foamie...nt -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 17:06:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Postie -:- TED - is Bud Lite greater than Bud? nt -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 21:48:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ TED Farkel -:- Bud lite is less than Bud:both less than Maha-Brew -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 00:03:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Postie -:- Once I sold beer at a Denver Broncos game -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 01:14:53 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Gerry, did you start barking like a dog -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 22:51:40 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- Maharaji, forgive me Lord -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:50:02 (GMT)
__ New-Age Redneck -:- Are you kidding Gerry? -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:18:42 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- Are you kidding Gerry? -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:23:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ such -:- glad to hear you and the family are ok. Best, (nt -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 08:22:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- glad you are ok nt -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:06:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ janet -:- that was no earthquake-that was bill gates ego -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:46:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- or having an orginal design idea -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:28:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Joy, are you okay? NT -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:04:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- gErRy -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:42:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gErRy -:- shake rattle and roll -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 02:04:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- shake rattle and roll -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:03:43 (GMT)

Brian Smith -:- A Caveat to Truth, a Question for Sandy -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 19:41:22 (GMT)
__ Sandy -:- Reply to Brian -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 01:25:12 (GMT)
__ __ Brian Smith -:- Reply to Brian ? Back to you Sandy -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 23:37:34 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Sandy, now I remember what it was about your -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 02:20:15 (GMT)
__ moldy warp -:- To Sandy. spirals not circles -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:33:52 (GMT)
__ __ Sandy -:- To Sandy. spirals not circles -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 01:27:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- To Sandy. spirals not circles -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 01:54:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sandy -:- To Sandy. spirals not circles -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 02:52:52 (GMT)
__ New-Age Redneck -:- Can I ask you a question, Brian? -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 20:09:44 (GMT)
__ __ Brian Smith -:- Can I ask you a question, Brian? My answer to you -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:42:30 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- New-Age Redneck - just love your name -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 20:44:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ New-Age Redneck -:- Of course, I'm not an expert in this arena :-) -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:12:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Did you also see simple atoms? -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 22:22:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Disculta -:- What TV special was that? NT -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 21:10:25 (GMT)

Careless Castinyoga -:- reFocus e-news- for recovering cult members. FYI -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:14:29 (GMT)
__ Sean -:- What about the children? -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 12:35:05 (GMT)

Jim -:- What exactly is he saying here? -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 17:20:52 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Go to the sauce. -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 18:04:41 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- A Poet Speaking Across Time And Space -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 00:45:37 (GMT)
__ __ Brain Smith -:- A Poet Speaking Across Time And Space/ very nice -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 09:38:44 (GMT)
__ janet -:- i wonder what he will die of. he will die, y know- -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 22:21:42 (GMT)
__ __ CD -:- wonder -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 00:33:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ Tim Matheson -:- wonder -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 00:54:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ CD -:- woods -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 03:17:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Tim Matheson -:- woods w/ mom -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 03:51:05 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- That He's a Perfect Asshole -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:25:53 (GMT)
__ New-Age Redneck -:- I think you missed the point.... -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 17:51:37 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Lila -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:55:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Connie -:- Remember me when you die -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 02:44:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Remember me in your will when you die -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:21:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Kelly -:- Remember me in your will when you die -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 22:24:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Remember me when you die -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:13:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Connie -:- Exactly! public face vs private face (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:19:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- Ooh, ooh, ooh! -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 02:07:27 (GMT)
__ __ New-Age Redneck -:- Add to that...... -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 17:59:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ The Filament Hisself -:- Take that !!! -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:23:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- The Filament..... -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:44:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ New-Age Redneck -:- It never gets old..... :-) -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:38:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- Exactly! -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:10:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ New-Age Redneck -:- Exactly! -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 19:12:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Pretty far fetched -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 01:40:19 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- What exactly he be saying here. -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 17:38:04 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- The new revised version of Maharaj Jism -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:43:47 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- Exactly, Gregg -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:40:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Exactly, Joe -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:46:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Hey Pat, guess who I saw... -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:49:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- But wait til it rains or gets cold, Joe.:)..nt -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 19:00:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Hey Joe, I can guess who you saw -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:53:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- It's about time..... -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 19:49:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- The local church-lady gossip -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 20:47:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Cynthia -:- Exactly, Pat (nt):))) -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:48:30 (GMT)

salam -:- Search engine results. Read. -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 16:23:44 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Salam ? -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 16:46:30 (GMT)
__ __ salam -:- Yes -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 16:56:56 (GMT)

Twiz -:- Anything Goes. (Sort of OT) -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 08:16:20 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- Anything Goes. (Sort of OT) -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 09:55:24 (GMT)
__ __ salam -:- Anything Goes. (Sort of OT) -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 15:28:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ such -:- didja say 'moola'? Almost had it all this incarna- -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 10:28:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Oh hello suchaji me lil'ol mate -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 23:07:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ salam -:- Forgot to say -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 23:17:31 (GMT)

Joe -:- New Email (OT) -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 03:54:54 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- DUH! -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 03:55:53 (GMT)
__ __ Kelly -:- I sent you one, did you geddit? nt -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 22:00:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joe -:- Yes (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:24:52 (GMT)
__ __ la-ex -:- Are you in your mind,Joe? nt -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:09:18 (GMT)

Postie -:- Event in Portland, OR -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 03:46:18 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- FA -- PLEASE REMOVE NUMBER and EMAIL -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 17:27:26 (GMT)
__ __ Postie -:- This may only be a 'what if' announcement -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 21:39:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ JTF -:- This may only be a 'what if' announcement/the scam -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 01:58:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Schnitzer Auditorium -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 23:32:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Postie -:- Schnitzer Concert Hall URL -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 23:50:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Schnitzer Concert Hall ONLY seats 2200 -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 02:45:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Kelly -:- This may only be a 'what if' announcement -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 22:35:29 (GMT)
__ Marianne -:- Registration fee only 800 bucks! -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 11:22:23 (GMT)
__ __ JTF -:- Registration fee only 800 bucks! -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 11:43:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ salam -:- Registration fee only 800 bucks! -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 15:32:36 (GMT)
__ Tim G -:- Event in Portland, OR -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 10:08:37 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- Registration for Amaroo must be LOW, LOW, LOW -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 06:00:45 (GMT)
__ __ Joy -:- Portland = Devotion Revival -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 16:32:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ Disculta -:- So, joy... -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 05:10:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ D_Thomas -:- Portland = Devotion Revival -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:03:43 (GMT)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Ok! I'm going to be in Oregon on business then -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 05:55:23 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- Check Marianne for a Smart Card Roger -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 22:44:45 (GMT)
__ la-ex -:- Has Schnitzer Aud. personnel been to EPO? nt -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:07:28 (GMT)

jondon -:- You need a Master -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 03:06:26 (GMT)
__ New-Age Redneck -:- I say again..... -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 16:56:29 (GMT)
__ Michael Dettmers -:- And here's why -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 15:04:38 (GMT)
__ __ jondon -:- Good Point -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:28:25 (GMT)
__ __ Joy -:- Why is he no longer 'Perfect' Master -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 16:39:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pauline Premie -:- I like the name 'Master.' -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 19:06:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Suchabanana -:- Firesign Theater was created at my house (ot -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:25:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- No shit! (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:54:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ New-Age Redneck -:- BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA! (nt) -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 20:12:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sandy -:- BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA! You laugh like a guy I -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 02:54:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Charles S. -:- Propagation and the ''Master''... -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 19:23:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pauline Premie -:- You are confused, Charles... -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 19:47:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Thelma -:- Oh Pauline, you and your SS+M kink NT -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 19:11:12 (GMT)
__ Sean -:- You need a Master -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:02:11 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- If I need Captain Rawat, a Perfect Master -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:10:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bin Liner -:- I'm mad too , in fact fucking livid , -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 02:49:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sean -:- The googe sleeping with fishes?(nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 03:47:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Last year the Bratguru said -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:24:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Connie -:- Maybe the web -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 02:57:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Maybe the web - ouch, Connie -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:22:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Connie -:- Persistence -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 07:25:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Persistence -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 07:43:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Jerry Falwell --OT -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 09:36:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Connie -:- I want to be pushed to think Pat -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 08:06:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Legalities -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 08:10:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Postie -:- Aw come on Conlon - tell the stories -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 21:58:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Aw come on Conlon - tell the stories -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 02:40:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- i found a sticker on a lightpole that said... -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:06:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ WMary -:- My premie friend found a sticker in the... -:- Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 13:29:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- my kids father is printing those in boston and new -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 11:07:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ jondon -:- I may have a copyright on that... -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 01:01:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Cute, Janet -:- Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:14:22 (GMT)


Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 13:39:47 (GMT)
From: EBay Alert
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaj Ji and Apostles 'Living Gospel' 1973 LP
Message:
Here is a copy of yet another album with a picture of Pudgy in the gatefold of the cover:
Pudgy

DESCRIPTION:
Shri Guru Maharaj Ji's Apostles 'The Living Gospel' LP on Shri-Hans from 1973. Selections include: I Come To My Lord - Hallelujah - Guru Is The Father - Back To My Home - Lila - Now That I've Found Him - Call Him - The Practical Solution - Maharaj Ji Can - And The Music - True Love - Riding - That's The Way Of The Lord - Who Is Maharaj Ji? Record grades 87 as does the cover.

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Date: Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 20:46:28 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: EBay Alert
Subject: oh,oh! a flashback to the tambourine rehearsal (nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 01:49:03 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: To be saved, send checks to Bratguru
Message:
Was mystique of ''service'' auto-suggestion? I can't pose this question to my 2 partners who are also exes because Charles got K-lite and didn't really get into service or get any sort of ''mystical'' experience out of it and Andy got K-ultra-lite 5 years ago and thinks the whole concept is kind of silly and being practical would think it more sensible to feed the hungry that straighten out white table-cloths with the PWK church-ladies.

But I really miss service. No. I'm lying. I'm a selfish bastard and what I really miss is the ''feeling'' I got from doing it and I had some pretty cosmic co-incidences and serendipitous synchronicities happen to me in the course of ''doing service.''

From the very first day that I did ''service'' I got as high as a kite. We had to hand out flyers about the Bratguru to strangers in London which absolutely made me freak out with embarassment but I got ''blissed out.'' From then on I was hooked and did first aid service at the Palace of Peace in 73-74. Then CC in Cheltenham in 75-76. Then CC in Durban in 77-78.

There were times when I felt like I was in the most perfect place and state of mind any human being could ever wish for or aspire to especially when I was living in the Indian ''ashram'' in Durban and at programs where I did first aid service. I got higher than any acid trip I ever had. Higher than darshan or satsang or meditation.

Then I came to the USA and helped clean up Kissimmee for two weeks after everyone left and then came to SF where I cooked and did other stuff in the ashcans till 81 when I dropped out because I began to feel that the cult was intruding on my personal life. I had had enough tastes of that to know that I did not want it again because I had entered into a relationship and did not want to jeopardise that. It was not such a big deal when I was single.

But I missed service a lot and it was that aspect of Maharaj Jism that I felt most guilty about that I continued sending money every month for the next 19 years as a way to placate my guilty conscience. ''Guilty'' may not even be the right word. Empty? Bad? Evil? Selfish? Egotistical? Arrogant? Sending a check made me feel like less of a manmut.

I sent my last check last December. I sat on the fence for 19 years because of my conviction that I was doing a service to humanity by financing the urug to spread Knowledge - well as much as a selfish, smug, middle-class mortgaged person can be expected to. (What's the emotikon for wryness or dryness for that matter?)

Last year I went back specifically to see if I could once again enjoy service. I once again got high doing ''synchronized participation'' but not nearly as cosmically as I remembered in the past and Charles and Andy who participated with me felt diddly-squat and were completely bored with ''synchronized participation.''

So was service also a faith-auto-suggested experience? Was service once upon a time in a more magical and innocent era a way to get high but now it isn't because I do not have the same blind faith that I used to have or the urug has lost his juju or does not have the ''grace of god'' on his side anymore?

Barry, where are you when I need to talk about adding Maharaj Jist guilt onto Catholic guilt?

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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 10:36:53 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: service. i have a theory...
Message:
mine is a metaphysical one.
i think in the beginning when mj first came over, he really did have some pie in the sky beleif that he was carrying out his father's agya to bring knowledge to the whole world. he was only 13, 14, 15 after all. and we were mostly in our twenties.
so in those early years, i think we all were operating in some kind of open ended paradigm that really did allow for grace--not his, but god's, divinity's, serendipity and the greater good to actually enter and take us, if we surrendered and let it use us. hence the high. the egoless state. the selfless service.
i remember overtly asking that the divine use me as its vessel, in order to remove suffering and bring enlightenment to other people, wherever it saw a way. it seemed a far better use of my life than scrabbling for selfish, niggling, petty, dubious goals, like money, career, fame, success, prestige, status and bragging rights.
i remember the 70's as a bleak time in the society at large, dominated by such draggy, grey, heavy events as Watergate, the gas crisis, the unemployment recession, the humiliation of the iran hostages, disco, cocaine, and on and on. nixon, ford. carter.
i remember thinking to myself, at least once a day, how utterly lost i would be, if i had to live out in that wasteland, and try to make something meanigful of it. i was so relieved to have maharaji and something i felt was unquestionably more worthwhile and cleaner to give my days and nights to.
i also remember using my premie vows ( the ashram vows, without actually entering the ashram) to escape numerous unpalatable encounters and close calls, while out in the world among the great, ignorant, unwashed. i slipped out of numerous moments, where, had i not had knowledge and the convenient escape of Satsang, service and Meditation to duck behind, I might have had no excuse to throw up, and would have ended up in strange guys' beds, cars, houses, lives, situations, jobs, living situations, and absolutely zero goal or notion of what to use my life for.
the whole decade was so uninspiring, in terms of what it presented as choices in life, i really didnt find any of them appealing. the life of knowledge handily relieved me of all these ghastly options/traps.
if i didnt like the turn the moment was taking, i could always escape it with tossing a smokescreen out, like ' I want to meditate now. dont talk to me anymore', close up like a corpse, and shut out everything.. or I could just take off, without explanation, as if i had just been summoned by an inaudible whistle to return to HQ, and ditch whoever was trying to waylay me (emphasis on 'lay'), and if i ever saw them again later and they demanded to know why i ditched them in midsentence like that, i could launch into a rhapsody about 'you dont know about the perfect master???' and gabble on about selfless service, and keep all attempts to get next to me at a good arm's length.
but i veer off my primary thesis: i do think that for a time, mj really had intents to do his fathers bidding, and for as long as he really believed it, we were extensions of his plan to bring knowledge to the world. but as michael dettmers told him, when he resigned, at some point, we could no longer do our service, because we had vowed to make his concerns, our concerns, and when he was no longer concerned with anyone or anything, it became impossible for us to be a part of his work any more, because he HAD none.
I think somewhere along in there, he turned cynical. he lost his former beleif in the dream. he mutated into pointing it just at getting for himself, and justified/raionalized/lied to himself and to the world that he was still carrying out his father's agya, wasnt he, because after all, he was still giving programs, and making videos, and satellite broadcasts, and people were still waiting to receive knowledge every year, werent they??
i think once he turned cynical and lost his true core belief,by extension, anyone left still with him shifted to being an instrument of what he was up to now, and that meant becoming complicit in the deception, the dishonesty, the hollow shell of its former self.
It would be like starting out as a volunteer in, say, a charity program to visit shut-ins, delivering meals on wheels, and then over time, your boss starts giving you other things to deliver, on your runs, too. like drugs. it starts off innocently enough, maybe picking up and delivering their prescriptions along with their meals. pretty soon its controlled drugs, illicitly obtained. youre in pretty deep. you cant get out. your hands are dirty. if you blow the whistle on the operation, you go down with them. if you try to leave, you stand to be killed by the criminal racket that is doing it. its like protection money you pay, to not be torched or arsoned or mugged in your own business.
i think the whole flavor has changed because its not selfless service anymore. it has turned into pure selfishness. and partcipating, they are, indeed. and in their black little hearts, they know damned well exactly what they are participants in. he's in it for selfishness, they're in it for their selfishness, and the light has gone out of it. it is rotten to the core, and he has corrupted it through and through. and he has inveigled them with him.

'YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARKSIDE! COME WITH ME, AND TOGETHER WE WILL RULE THE UNIVERSE!'.........................DARTH VADER, THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACKi think this is why you felt that lack when you went back after 19 years and tried 'participation'.

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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 20:36:20 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: service. i have a theory... Right on
Message:
Very nice work janet and alot to think about. My last attempt at service was to assist in the video events here in Portland Or several months back. There was such a tug of war of egos going on and just vicious infighting amongst the church ladies that it was impossible to experience any of the so called blissful service of years back. Not to mention all of the anal demands of doing everything just so, service which was once a spontaneous expression of devotion has now been reduced to following a letter for letter specific robotic execution of orders.

The kind of mindless obediance sort of like being in the military, don't ask, don't think, be a good soldier and follow orders. It was so dry, so petty, so paranoid, I felt totally shut down and stifled and I stopped participating.

Frankliy I am surprised that these people actally pulled it together and will be having GMJ here in a couple of weeks.

They must have had a lots of outside help, there are some huge power trips running rampant in this community.

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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 20:46:34 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: delores@gofree.indigo.ie
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Hi Brian
Message:
Could you send me your email please?

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 19:56:54 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Thanks for your theory, Janet
Message:
It is my take on it too. Especially the bit about how the current PWKs are operating. As Connie, one of the new exes, has made clear - participation is now mostly about sucking up to the Bratguru.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 17:37:44 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Service
Message:
I think 'service' was just the chance to do something you believe is worthwhile and for a greater good. And in the cult, we usually did service with others who believed the same thing, so there was a kind of group high.

I had much stronger experiences of 'service' working against the war in Vietnam when I was a teenager, and in the Wisconsin primary working for McGovern in 1972, and in both cases, it was the belief in the 'greater good' and also working with others who also believed that. But at least in the early years as a premie, I did have those kind of 'high' experiences doing service. The more I did, however, the less that was the case, and I was always trying to get that experience back.

In the cult, though, there were a few other things operating:

1. Maharaji said 'service' was required, as an essential element of the practice of knowledge. So, you had to do it, and you had his directive to do so from somebody believed to be the incarnation of god. So, that strong belief added to the pereception of doing something worthwhile.

2. In the Maharaji cult, 'service' became this hierarchical structure, with competition for getting the 'high' service, that was either considered important, or close to Maharaji. This was the perception, but often people in those positions had worse experiences of 'service' than those who took out the garbage. Also, premies were supposedly put into positions because of Maharaji's grace, or because they had skills. In reality, it was very political, usually based on who you knew, rather than skill or anything else, and thus, some of the most incompetent people got put in positions of 'important' service.

Many of the coordinators/management types were really incompetent, and this was really visible at programs. But since there was basically an unlimited pool of slave labor, and a 'consumer' who was trying to surrender and hence wasn't going to complain, this was able to continue. DECA was probably the most visible example of about the most incompetently run enterprise you could imagine, but since it didn't have to respond to the marketplace, and got infusions of cash and labor from willing cult-members, it also could continue, although it eventually did collapse of its own mismanagement, and Maharaji's demands.

3. Many premies didn't really do meditation, or they just fell asleep, or they were bored with it, and so 'service' was sometimes a compensation for that. The premie 'service freak' was a common sight in the cult. Throwing yourself into 'service' just like trying to 'constantly meditate' was a means of not thinking about how miserable your life was, how you weren't happy, how knowledge didn't work, and all the contradictions that came with seeing Maharaji behave the way he did. It was a method of 'not leaving room for doubts in your mind.'

4. Many of us were young, idealistic, eager, energetic, and stupid.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 19:22:56 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Service
Message:
I think for those premies who were real idealists (like you) who wanted to change the world with service, it must have been the worst betrayal. For hedonistic hindu-hippies like me who just wanted to get high, it was mostly just a disappointment when the juju ran out.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 13:57:27 (GMT)
From: Michael Dettmers
Email: dettmers@gylanix.com
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: To be saved, send checks to Bratguru
Message:
Pat,

Please send me your e-mail address.

Thanks,

Michael

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 19:04:52 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: It is done, Michael NT
Message:
k
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 11:47:16 (GMT)
From: Patrick (formerly Anon)
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: My take on service
Message:
So was service also a faith-auto-suggested experience? Was service once upon a time in a more magical and innocent era a way to get high but now it isn't because I do not have the same blind faith that I used to have or the urug has lost his juju or does not have the ''grace of god'' on his side anymore?

Service as a selfless act

My take on 'service' is that it provided an opportunity for us to do something that was not essentially selfish in the sense that we had little investment in the outome of the action apart from the so-called spiritual rewards. Thus we became distracted from ourselves for a while.

One need hardly add that when one eventually became consumed with feelings love and devotion, service was the obvious way to spend one's time to amplify and indeed express one's feelings. This may have represented a 'consciousness of bliss' but of 'Truth' I am not so sure. Again, more prosaic reasons are at hand to explain and somewhat demystify the experience.

Maybe one would be asked to stand doing security in some distant lonely forgotten spot or whatever - the upshot was that it was not the sort of thing you would normally imagine yourself doing. Then because ones body is thus engaged in a non-personal type action the mind also takes a break. It gives up.

This principle extends, as far as I can see, into Satsang, where because one would basically be listening to repetitive often fragmented stuff that is of little interest at face value, the mind shuts down or you are driven to sleep.

Naturally when the mind is thus disengaged from it's normal modus operandi, what remains for one familiar in the practice of meditation are the feelings therof. Otherwise, for an aspirant or somebody wandering in off the street, they may be also struck with the unusual calm that comes from these situations.

The impression that all these phenomena are because of some special grace of the guru, is in my opinion because that is what is strongly suggested from the word go. The association will only be made when one is told that Maharaji is the active principle here. Otherwise people will not ask 'Oh who is giving me this peaceful feeling?' - they may ask 'why am I feeling this?' though. The distinction being that it is suggested that a particular person is responsible , which is not a conclusion that one would naturally draw from feeling something yourself.

As you know, this principle is demonstrably not something that only happens for Maharaji's premies. Service (Seva in India) is a historic ingredient of all similar religious practices and represents a way for people to practically feel that they are transcending for a while, their normal, mundane and personal activities. Also they have the added satisfaction that they are taking an active a part in something ultimately special. The reward is that your belief that you could not be better engaged is reinforced.

Once you stop trusting the Guru (even subonsciously) of course your feelings are not going to be the same and you will undoubtedly find that you are not so content to be channeling your energies to the futherance of that cause.

This may explain why the Premie Lite generation are not so keen on service - they are not required to invest so much trust in the Guru so their subconscious doubts may be closer to the suface.

Service as an opportunity for surrender.

Finally, I believe that often Service was drummed up to be a moment of surrender and as such was something which forced you to 'let go'.

Like any activity where normal reticence has to be overcome such as in 'bungee jumping' or 'fire-walking', there is a rush of new self-confidence, or in this case confidence in the guru, when one takes the plunge and survives, even enjoys the sensation.

I know I felt this when doing stuff like you mentioned at the Palace of Peace in London circa 1974. Normally there was nothing that would have persuaded me to leap into the back of a lorry with a bunch of anaemic, smelly people with ill-fitting suits and bushy moustaches, to go 'Jumbling' of a rainy cold eve in South Dulwich.

Surrending to that requirement when the mind screamed 'No!' forced a strange detachment that made one feel that one was part of some one else's life, maybe the new egoless you, a part of some new movie - a movie that Maharaji, not you, was scripting.


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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 19:10:14 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Patrick (formerly Anon)
Subject: I had forgotten about ''surrender'' Patrick
Message:
Yes, I was never very good at surrender being an ornery kind of communist hippie fag. Thank you for your Scorpionically incisive analyisis. As another person much addicted to feeling and sensation I often have epiphanies when reading your posts.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 22:51:45 (GMT)
From: JTF
Email: None
To: all
Subject: What the hell did ''surrender'' mean??????
Message:
I was never really quite sure. Sometimes, it meant give up my ideas. Sometimes, it meant-don't worry about how I feel,just trust that all will be well later(grin and bear it)!!

Usually, if someone told you to surrender, it meant they were sticking it to you and you should not resist.

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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 02:59:10 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: JTF
Subject: Surrender your will and remember me in your will
Message:
I associate the experience of surrender to being totally freaked out mentally but at the same time experiencing being so high I felt like I was pure energy or consciousness.

I pulled away from service because I was not strong enough to handle the mental freak outs that accompanied this surrender of my will power and just plodded along doing my meditation for 30 years and I certainly get more out of that now than I did when I went back to do ''synchronized particiapation'' last year.

I'm doing things at my own pace and I don't think surrendering one's will-power is such a good way to achieve nirvana. In fact I think it is dangerous and lazy.

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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 03:41:13 (GMT)
From: JTF
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Surrender your will and remember me in your will
Message:
I was fucked up going in, itaque, extremely vulnerable. Just a chump looking for a solution who bought 'the practical solution'.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 10:49:01 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Service
Message:
Hi Pat,

I think if any group of people get together and work for something they believe in, they get high.

I used to enjoy 'Service' too, but like your thread title suggests, service changed, along with darshan gifts.

It became, 'Service = Cash', 'Darshan gifts in 'Cash' please.

The whole trip we helped to create in the early days has fallen apart, and been replaced by nothing. All that remains is the deperate desire for more money, essential to keep Captain Rawat in the style to which he has become accustomed.

The Captain must be sitting in his Malibu control centre, glugging his cognac, wondering where it all went wrong.

Anth who knows where he went wrong.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 19:19:34 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Anth, who knows what went wrong?
Message:
Have you read any of Connie's posts? We have both recently been in the belly of the beast. What went wrong was the public/private split, the lies, the secrecy and the conspiracy of silence.

Maharaj Jism - Never a Cult, Never a Religion, Always Esoteric Krishnaism

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 23:03:19 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: I blame...
Message:
...LSD, Timothy Leary, The Beatles, Baba Ramdass, The Incredible String Band, World War Two and Ken Philips.

Anth the dyke a sell lick Lee drain BAM! aged.

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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 03:02:47 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: I blame...The Incredible String Band
Message:
I took a trip down memory lane recently and listened to them and was so shocked to find them chintzy. I could not believe that I would get acid flashbacks just listening to them. (''Lovers and friends meet again and agin on the dear old battlefield.'') I guess I have finally turned into an opera queen.
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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 23:42:07 (GMT)
From: nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: You Get Brighter / Greatest Friend
Message:
We used to sing String Band stuff in satsang, which I hated, because it involved changing the words to songs I'd liked prior to joining.

God, I know what you mean about the chinzy lyrics, Pat, on relistening. Winnie-the-Pooh on acid, indeed. But I still rate them as one of the most innovative, influential bands ever, though.

Did you know they had reformed (orginal line-up, sans hippie chicks) and did some festival gigs last year? Mike and Robin are no longer Scientologists, Rose became Lord Mayor of Aberysthwith (or similar name in Wales) and Liquorice has apparently disappeared off the face of the planet - presumably still deeply entrenched in Hubbard's head-fuck-for-life experience.

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Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 02:16:10 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com
To: nigel
Subject: You Get Brighter / Greatest Friend
Message:
Well, I was just wondering if they were all still into Scientology. But the music was original, energetic and suited my particular brand of psychedelicism at the time living in a commune in a squat in Hackney, part Hindu-hippie part egghead-communist. They were clever and classy. Did they make any recordings of those recent gigs? My first ex-wife knew some of them in Scotland before they recorded their first album.

But sadly listening to them this time round reminded me more of that other Scotsman, Donovan - little bits of good stuff. Not a solid two hours of musical bliss like a good opera.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 23:39:06 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Your posts today...
Message:
Plainly demonstrate that you have gotten a long head start on Latvian night.

Love, Marianne

PS I don't think they're going to let David Smith through customs with the pig TED is sending with him, do you?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 23:50:54 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: I'm detoxing
Message:
after going to Carnival for four days in Maastricht.

You'd love it Marianne. I'll tell you all about it.

Anth the toxic waist.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 22:48:01 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: It was never right , is what went wrong.
Message:

All that high energy spiritual testosterone , unfocussed idealism , & discontent with the status quo , directed towards Rawat .

A lot of people have a 'religious instinct', whatever that may be , which he & others like him have exploited for their own ends .

Rawat had no framework , which was part of the attraction then .

No explanation of how his trip would interact with the wider world ; just an assumption that it would prevail because he was divine.

I watched a BBC documentary the other night.

A journalist went through Afghanistan with a hidden camera.
(Brave/stupid fucker)

What was striking to me , listening to the explanations of how the Taliban were setting up the divine society , was how similar in demeanour many of them were to WPC types in the 70's.

Different theology obviously , but the same types.

Calm
Intelligent
Smiling
Loquacious in explanation of their beliefs
Watchful
Joking

& totally unflinchingly implacable in their determination to impose their vision on everyone else ,& fuck the consequences.

One scene , where they closed down a photographer , a family business , no screaming & shouting , just arms around shoulders , gentle explanations as to why taking photo's is against the will of Allah , then a playful stroking of the victim's beard (grow it some more).

Shit , it reminded me of a time when I was standing chatting to a mate outside a programme.

Up came a WPC known to both of us , chatted for a moment , then put his hand in my mate's jacket pocket , pulled out a lump of dope & flicked it down the drain.

All in one easy movement.

Then he sauntered off saying , jai sat etc.

What enables people to do things like that ?

The supreme confidence that comes from being on a mission from God ,is what.

Which is wrong.

Kabul 2001 looks like Hamburg 1946.

The Divine City : My arse.

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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 03:35:24 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Last night I watched a documentary
Message:
''The Eyes of Tammy Faye.'' I know that she does not mean much to you Brits but it was a huge scandal here. Millions of dollars mis-spent by those in the god-business. Tammy's husband created the largest satellite televangelist business in the world. However if you do know anything about the PTL scandal it is a movie worth seeing. These were the ''good'' guys. The bad guys were the honchos from the Jerry Fallwell Taliban. Talk about Jihad. Total fucking nazis.

You story about the dope in your friend's pocket gave me the creeps but their were nazis around even in the hippie sixties who did similar things. I guess there will always be totalitarians.

Your idea of the Bratguru arriving just at the right time to tap into our discontent is a concept I am only now beginning to digest. Of course it was not obvious at the time but then nothing really was, was it?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 15:58:08 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Benevelence...
Message:
I think anyone can get 'high' simply by doing something positive for someone who has no chance of paying you back. I don't know the psychological mechanism behind it, but this phenomena is not limited to cult ''participation,'' as we well know.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 19:26:04 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Not even earthquakes can stop a devotee from
Message:
doing service which I sometimes think the exes do better than anyone else. Let's face it, this is a thankless task.

Did you have any damage?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 20:38:07 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: We were very, very lucky
Message:
and sustained nothing more than a few cracks in the foundation and some drywall cracks.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 22:20:51 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: You betcha
Message:
Gerry:

You guys are mucho lucky. I can't imagine what that quake would've been like if it had not been 30 miles below the surface. The destruction and deaths would have been absolutely mindboggling. In fact, your entire area was fortunate.

I went through the Northridge quake in '94, and if that quake, which was about the same richter-wise (or as I like to call it, the sphincter scale) as the Seattle quake, had not happened at 4:31 a.m., there would've been hundreds, if not thousands, of deaths.

My kitty had gotten stranded back east at Christmas time due to the bad weather, which was fortunate for her. She would've been flattened by the quake, which took all my bookshelves and tossed them like toothpicks in a windstorm.

Glad you're all okay.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 20:43:39 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: You were very, very lucky
Message:
As long as the cracks in the foundation can be repaired and don't weaken the house. Joy emailed me about her experience and said it was just as bad as the 89 quake in SF. I'm glad for you.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:59:26 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Amaroo 2001 - Survivor III: Outhoax, Outswindle...
Message:
Out of your Mind!

Which premies will stay and which premies will go after their stint in the outback....?

Missed the episode last night on telly where they slaughtered the pig (and please American exes, don't tell me who got voted off - we're a couple of episodes behind you!!) cause I was seeing Hannibal (ending is a big disappointment in comparison to the book's ending)....

Anyway I was thinking of the characters in Survivor II and wondering which ones premies could play. I think Charanand would have made a good Kentucky Joe...

And what could be a survival challenge? Which team could kiss M's feet in the shortest amount of time or donate the most money into the darshan box to win the Immunity Baragon...

The winning team will also be rewarded with something from Daya's Fine Dining or something extra for the tent - like some mosquito coils etc etc

Ho hum - back to work....

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 09:27:53 (GMT)
From: Aussi Ji
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Amaroo 2001 - Survivor III: Outhoax, Outswindle...
Message:
Hi TD,
Mitchell got voted off last night .Australian eastern time.The stupid prick was the cause of his own demise,they were going to vote off Keith,but there was a couple of ties and then Mitchell said he was as useless as a fart in an elevator and that was his end.
Aussi Ji(who will watch any kind of good crap on Tv)
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 21:31:48 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Aussi Ji
Subject: Amaroo 2001 - Survivor III: Outhoax, Outswindle...
Message:
Thanks Aussi Ji for the update. I never watched these shows last year, but have begun to this year. I also started watching The Mole too!
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 02:54:40 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Here's a better Amaroo
Message:
. Amaroo Beach Resort

'Amaroo is an Aboriginal word for 'a most beautiful place'.'

Now here's an Amaroo that really does look beautiful, and it costs far less money! It turns out there are many 'Amaroos' in Australia much nicer than that hell hole Rawat calls 'Amaroo'.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 05:32:26 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: G
Subject: I'll say...... that's a much better deal! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 22:12:45 (GMT)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Immunity Baragon....Now that's funny! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 23:06:54 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: New-Age Redneck
Subject: Hey, New-Age Redneck
Message:
Hi New Age Redneck,

Do I know you?

Anth the socially buttered pie.

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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 05:27:45 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Anth the socially buttered pie.
Message:
This whole active index seems to be dominated by new exes. I miss the old one's. Where the hell are Jim and Katie and Janet and....you?

Plenty of room for everyone. Perhaps the old-timers are bored by so many polite and earnest newbies.

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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 10:14:09 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Anth the socially buttered pie.
Message:
Hi Pat,

I've been mega-busy at work the past couple of weeks, and also, Dot and I went to Carnival for four days in the middle.

It's great that all these new people are posting at the moment. I can't keep up with them all.

Premies really do seem to be popping out of the cult right, left and centre. I'd love to take a look at the cults books right now, and also, how many people have registered for Scamaroo. (I've heard the number is into double figures at last.)

Also Pat, there's lots of fun brewing up quietly off the forum.

Take care

Anth the green red and yellow hangover

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 09:21:49 (GMT)
From: Aussi Ji
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: what i was told about beragons'
Message:
When I was preparing for knowledge 27 years ago,I was told that when Jesus was carrying his cross up the hill to be crucified that it wasn't in fact a cross,but a beragon.Yes,fair dinkum!Can you believe the bullshit that was peddled then and is still being peddled now,albeit more sophisticated now.

Cheers Beragon man from down under

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:15:59 (GMT)
From: g g g gerry
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji, forgive me Lord
Message:
I promise I'll never do it again. No more 'pet' names, no more 'altered images,' no more cuss words.

I know 'not a leaf moves...' but 7.0 was a little severe, don't you think?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 00:41:39 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: g g g gerry
Subject: Maharaji, forgive me Lord/ me too g g g gerry
Message:
Hey everyone, b b b Brian here on the scene in Portland it was quite the experience.
The floor starting rolling and the walls started rattling and I began to wonder for a moment, is this the big one.

It went on for what seemed like a couple of minutes accompanied by this sound like the deep muffled thunder of hundreds freight trains passing all at once.

This was my second earthquake here in the Pacific NW the last one about eight years ago and small compared to the 7.0 richter scale of this one. I have been through two earthquakes and one volcano eruption out here (Mt St. Helens) if this area were not so damned beautiful I would be looking for the exit.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 00:37:09 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: g g g gerry
Subject: I Got Out Of The Bath
Message:
and stood under the door frame and watched the waves.

Steve 200 miles from the epicentre.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:00:44 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: g g g gerry
Subject: Maybe it was actually God warning M....
Message:
... to NOT come to the Pacific Northwest.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 03:50:19 (GMT)
From: TED Farkel
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: Hold on Postie.Guru's greater than God,aint he?nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 03:53:39 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: The Speaker formerly known as Satguru aint! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 17:06:45 (GMT)
From: TED Farkel
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: I stand corrected!Think I'll have a foamie...nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 21:48:21 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: TED - is Bud Lite greater than Bud? nt
Message:
wassuppppp
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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 00:03:04 (GMT)
From: TED Farkel
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: Bud lite is less than Bud:both less than Maha-Brew
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 01:14:53 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: Once I sold beer at a Denver Broncos game
Message:
We were all supposed to be getting 'outside jobs' plus do full time service at IHQ. Some of the honchos figured out a way to make $$ and get into the always sold out Broncos games - sell beer! So as an inside joke we'd walk around yelling 'Maha Beer right here getcher Maha Beer'.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 22:51:40 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: g g g gerry
Subject: Gerry, did you start barking like a dog
Message:
Gerry,

The good news is that part of the Starbucks HQ has toppled.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:50:02 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: g g g gerry
Subject: Maharaji, forgive me Lord
Message:
Dear Gerry,
Christ! I was just thinking about you and here you are! Saw about the earthquake on the msn page when I signed onto the net! I thought that must be why you haven't been around. Hope you and yours are alright!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:18:42 (GMT)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: g g g gerry
Subject: Are you kidding Gerry?
Message:
Did I miss some news or did you just-now go through an earthquake? If so, you and yours ok?
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:23:58 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: gkl1@techline.com
To: New-Age Redneck
Subject: Are you kidding Gerry?
Message:
Yeah OK here. Patty's workplace building in Olympia sustained structural damage and she's now home. Me and the boy's teeth are still rattling, though.

Thanks fer askin, and drop me a line, Red.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 08:22:28 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: glad to hear you and the family are ok. Best, (nt
Message:
ok
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:06:36 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: glad you are ok nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:46:38 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: that was no earthquake-that was bill gates ego
Message:
having a doubt!
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:28:09 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: or having an orginal design idea
Message:
But then I lump BG and BM (bigM) in the same categories sometimes.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:04:54 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Joy, are you okay? NT
Message:
g
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:42:09 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: ggggerrrryyyy
Subject: gErRy
Message:
Hi sweetie. I'm glad you and Patty are ok. I was on the phone with a friend in Eugene when her office staff told her there'd been a major EQ in Seattle. T'was a rather large one! Did your house shake, rattle and roll? Thinking of you....

Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 02:04:38 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: shake rattle and roll
Message:
You ain't kiddlin' caboodle there Marianne, the old shack shook like a junkie in the county jail. Me boys mewed up a storm and the plates tore a big hole in Rt101. All the traffic got routed through little ole McCleary and the state fuzz had to direct traffic.

Olympia got hammered hard. I decide to hammered hard myself so I did. I mean I am. You know what I mean...

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:03:43 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: shake rattle and roll
Message:
When we had the big one here in 89 I was on call at the hospital where I worked but started drinking a very nice bottle of cabernet after the shaking stopped. When my boss called and told me to come to work, I said, ''No, I'm drunk.''
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 19:41:22 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: A Caveat to Truth, a Question for Sandy
Message:
In a lower thread to Sandy, I referred to higher power/God, let me gather my thoughts and clarify this point.

By higher power or God, I relate to the term much in the same way as Pat Conlon describes it. We are 6 billion pieces of the same energy, consciousness, power, etc. I see us as individual sparks of the same life force, and like water rises to its own level, truth also seeks its highest level. This does not mean that I experience the highest truth, it means that I only grasp as much truth as I am willing to let in depending on my available level of acceptance. Like water can be controlled with faucets and valves I have found my individual experience of truth can be impeded and entirely shut down and/or turned off according to my personal preference or understanding.

Truth is my higher power and the level of truth I experience is relative to my ability to stay open and examine the facts of any matter clearly and without attachments to my personal concepts.
Resistance to imput and new information along with attachments to old ideas and concepts is the biggest factor in shutting down the flow of truth in my life.
The truth I am talking about is not limited to spiritual matters but all aspects of truth in life as well.

For me to know and understand truth means that I must be willing to risk all of my own beliefs at all times and be ready to acknowledge that I don't know it all.

The only way that I can rise to a higher truth is to diligently and intelligently clear the rubbish out of my mind and allow what I don't know to refill and refresh the space. This is an ongoing and continual process of renewal, and a driving and vital force in my life today.
This was a luxury that I had deprived myself of for many years staying hung up on the guru.

To Sandy,

Sandy, just remember that a body in motion tends to stay in motion, a body at rest tends to stay at rest. Physics 101, law of inertia.

One more question for you Sandy.....
Are you are really committed to putting truth in motion in your life or are you simply content with remaining in the same place wallowing in the muck and mockery of a stagnant and shameless cult and guru?

I am looking forward to your response

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 01:25:12 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Reply to Brian
Message:
Brian said:
In a lower thread to Sandy, I referred to higher power/God, let me gather my thoughts and clarify this point.

By higher power or God, I relate to the term much in the same way as Pat Conlon describes it. We are 6 billion pieces of the same energy, consciousness, power, etc. I see us as individual sparks of the same life force, and like water rises to its own level,
truth also seeks its highest level. This does not mean that I experience the highest truth, it means that I only grasp as much truth as I am willing to let in depending on my available level of acceptance. Like water can be controlled with faucets and valves I have found my individual experience of truth can be impeded and entirely shut down and/or turned off according to my personal preference or understanding. -Brian

*I agree about the 6 billion sparks of God in all human beings. I'd even go further and say that God is in every particle of matter everywhere as well. And beyond that, I would say that there is a Gestalt thing too, where the whole of God is greater that the sum of the parts. - Sandy

Truth is my higher power and the level of truth I experience is relative to my ability to stay open and examine the facts of any matter clearly and without attachments to my personal concepts.
Resistance to imput and new information along with attachments to old ideas and concepts is the biggest factor in shutting down the flow of truth in my life. The truth I am talking about is not limited to spiritual matters but all aspects of truth in life as well. - Brian

*I agree in part. Truth comes in relatve terms on a situational basis, and then there is what I believe is the big Truth tthat sometimes defies everything else we know to be true. When I was growing up in the midwest, I recall seeing the aftermath of tornadoes, with pieces of straw stuck into telephone poles like a half-driven nail. This is not supposed to be able to happen according to the relative truths of physics. Something extraordinary can suspend temporarily the little truths and just happen. And this is the file I have been putting my relationship with Maharaji and Knowldge in, because it doesn't fit anywhere else anymore. I would never defend or try to rationalize or explain away some of the outrageous things that have been documented here about Maharaji, some of his people or EV's new rewritten histories. -Sandy

For me to know and understand truth means that I must be willing to risk all of my own beliefs at all times and be ready to acknowledge that I don't know it all. -Brian

*Well said, in agreement. Easier said than done. -Sandy

The only way that I can rise to a higher truth is to diligently and intelligently clear the rubbish out of my mind and allow what I don't know to refill and refresh the space. This is an ongoing and continual process of renewal, and a driving and vital force in my life today. This was a luxury that I had deprived myself of for many years staying hung up on the guru. -Brian

*I heard that too. But I would not say you (or I) deprived ourselves of the luxury of cleaning house....we did not think it was necessary at the time. -Sandy

To Sandy,
Sandy, just remember that a body in motion tends to stay in motion, a body at rest tends to stay at rest. Physics 101, law of inertia. One more question for you Sandy.....Are you are really committed to putting truth in motion in your life or are you simply content with remaining in the same place wallowing in the muck and mockery of a stagnant and shameless cult and guru?
I am looking forward to your response. -Brian

I am committed to putting in motion (and having truth put me in motion too). I am not content with the shadow of what I now am aware of hanging over my life. Is this an alter call??? I'm not going to come down to the front of the room and yell hallelujeah I'm saved and fall over yet, if that's what you are looking for.
But I am definitely going through something and am somewhere inside I have not been before and things are changing and becoming clearer.

I know that you sincerely believe that you have my best interests at heart, and that means alot to me, more than you know. It is the essence of all the teachings, of all the lessons, of all the paths...that we human beings give a shit about each other and try to give each other a head up if we think one is headed for a pit.
That too is God.

Sandy

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 23:37:34 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: bgsmith@teleport.com
To: Sandy
Subject: Reply to Brian ? Back to you Sandy
Message:
Thanks Sandy for your thoughtful response, I must say that I am somewhat impressed with what appears to be a earnest desire to work out a solution for yourself.

I apologize for not replying sooner, as you probably have heard we had an earthquake here in the Pacific NW. We did not get hit as hard here in Portland as they did in Seattle. No damage to my house but a huge 8 ft split in my swimming pool and I have been dealing with that hassle and contractors for the last couple of days. So here goes,

Something extraordinary can suspend temporarily the little truths and just happen. And this is the file I have been putting my relationship with Maharaji and Knowledge in,

What is so extraordinary about Maharaji? other than he came along at the right time with a message and a story that you and I bought to fit the circumstances that we were in at the time. This message might still be believable were he to have lived an extraordinary life to back up the premise that he originally presented, that of 'Lord' incarnate. But he did not and he still doesn't, he succumbed to the same temptations and corruption that many an ordinary man who gains power, position and money caves in to. I know of better extraordinary examples in my own family of people who have achieved massive success in life who have more compassion and ethics than M does. The techniques are even ordinary, there is nothing extraordinary about these ancient meditation practices, any ordinary person or even a book can give you the same information.

I would not say you (or I) deprived ourselves of the luxury of
cleaning house....we did not think it was necessary at the time. -Sandy,

You are right, but ignorance is not much of an excuse, I still stifled myself with the rationalization of the cult, I was not capable of thinking clearly for myself and now I do see how necessary that it is to constantly clean house, no more excuses.

Is this an alter call??? I'm not going to come down to the front of the room and yell hallelujeah I'm saved and fall over yet, if that's what you are looking for.

This is your life, it is not an alter call and however you choose to celebrate reclaiming your own independance if you reclaim it need not be quite so dramatic as your description akin to a Billy Graham crusade. Unless that is how you choose to express it or whatever, I support you wholeheartedly.

But I am definitely going through something and am somewhere inside I have not been before and things are changing and becoming clearer.

I hear you knocking, and I applaud your efforts I quess that answers my question to what you are doing here. I hope that your intentions are serious and that you are moving towards a breakthrough and not just rehashing issues ad infinity.

Thanks for responding Sandy, you can contact me personally if you want email posted above

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 02:20:15 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Sandy, now I remember what it was about your
Message:
deleted posts that I liked so much. You stated quite assertively things that you BELIEVED in rather than things that you did NOT BELIEVE in and didn't keep on covering the same ground.

What helped me most to sort my head out was to express positive things instead of negative things like whether I was right or wrong about the Bratguru. So I would often think and say outrageous things in a very affirmative way. I was struggling to define the world the way I saw it not the way I thought I was supposed to see it. My fallacies were shot own and are still being shot down but I have more fun sticking my neck out and saying what I do believe in than constantly harping on what I don't believe in anymore.

If you want to stick your neck out why don't you expound more on your pan/polytheistic take on god. It's sort of my own take on things and I'm willing to stick my neck out and get bricks thrown at me by the materialists and objectivists here.

I still think it's healthier to speak affirmatively and assertively about what you do believe in than try to flog dead horses. Tell us what you think not what you think you ought to be thinking. Let yourself go and be eloquent, free and adventurous. Sure you may be criticized but criticism can be like the emery which polishes gemstones.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:33:52 (GMT)
From: moldy warp
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: To Sandy. spirals not circles
Message:
Just read bits of your thread below. Hope you're feeling OK. I didn't think you were going round in circles, more like spirals...ie going upward slowly out of the morass but returning temporarily to similar territory from slightly different perspective. I don't think you are wallowing in muck (unless you think you are yourself and then I stand corrected cos I haven't been reading your posts as long as others).Or, another way to put it - you (or me, or anyone) thinks they're free of Hamster, and then you discover another 'deeper' layer of feelings - where your stuff re God and Hamster and yourself are all muddled up. having gone through this myself more than once I can only say - If God exists than by definition he/she/it has your best interests at heart, and if not, then yourSELF has the same... so whichever way ...(was going to say something about following your heart but can't bring myself to use that phrase now it has been forever nauseatingly contaminated by Hamster)... it's OK . And re wot Brian said above about bodies at rest -can't agree there... something always comes along and moves you at some point. yours hopefully not too didactically, m.w.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 01:27:49 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: moldy warp
Subject: To Sandy. spirals not circles
Message:
Feels like spirals not circle to me too. I want to do this right so I don't have to backtrack once the road is walked. Different drummers and all that...no muddled, just befuddled.

Thanks.
Sandy

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 01:54:29 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: To Sandy. spirals not circles
Message:
I think you are going in rising spirals too not circles. I went through what you are going through now for 19 years so I cannot judge you. And I don't think you are nearly so slow a learner or as stubborn or maybe even as guilty and frightened as I was.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 02:52:52 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: To Sandy. spirals not circles
Message:
I think you are going in rising spirals too not circles. I went through what you are going through now for 19 years so I cannot judge you. And I don't think you are nearly so slow a learner or as stubborn or maybe even as guilty and frightened as I was.
-Pat

Pat,
Don't be so judgemental on yourself. I've been to hell and back over this, lost alot of sleep and more, and I don't think the journey is over yet. NO judgement is good judgement, far as praise and blame on each other. That's the last thing we need.

Sandy

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 20:09:44 (GMT)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: Brian Smith
Subject: Can I ask you a question, Brian?
Message:
Brian, in the interest of a decent discourse, I would like to ask you a question:

On one hand, you say: '...We are 6 billion pieces of the same energy, consciousness, power, etc. I see us as individual sparks of the same life force,....'

On the other hand, you say: '...my ability to stay open and examine the facts of any matter clearly and without attachments to my PERSONAL CONCEPTS...' (emphasis mine).

The question is this: Isn't your first statement just a 'personal concept?' Unless you've ACTUALLY SEEN this, not just read about it or mused/imagined it, then it can't be anything other than a concept. I'm not picking here, just asking.

It would appear to me that our 'level' of 'consciousness' is so totally influenced by the slightest changes in brain chemistry that it is undeniable that the collection of molecules that we call the 'brain' actually 'creates' consciousness and NOT the other way around.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:42:30 (GMT)
From: Brian Smith
Email: None
To: New-Age Redneck
Subject: Can I ask you a question, Brian? My answer to you
Message:
We are 6 billion pieces of the same energy, consciousness,
power, etc. I see us as individual sparks of the same life force
'

Yes, this is a personal concept, I am not necessarily trying to be right here with this statement or say that am I free from concepts. I have no proof of this theory other than my own personal agreement with the premise and if a better explanation is offered I am willing to examine it and move forward.

I can't speak for 6 million others, I can only conceptualize in my own mind that the energy which keeps me alive when broken down to the most basic of elements is as universal as the elements of water, and air etc. It is fair to say that this is a concept, because it depends more on agreement and meeting of the minds than it does on factual data.

Concepts, I know that I have many, I also know that I don't know that I have many more concepts that I don't know about. I have accepted that concepts, ideas, opinions and beliefs go with the territory of life.

I will deal with, struggle with, create and discard concepts for the rest of my life I am sure

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 20:44:16 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: New-Age Redneck
Subject: New-Age Redneck - just love your name
Message:
Also read your post re DNA and species memory. Brian referred to my ''concept'' that there are 6 billion beings ''created in the image of god'' but I just wanted to add that I do not see consciousness and matter as two separate things. Rather consciousness is a function of the human brain and maybe even its DNA.

I have read the theory that most of our racial memory is contained in the DNA and may be available to our conscious minds. I certainly experienced that on acid and had a wonderful trip where I ''understood'' reincarnation not as some Hindu mumbo-jumbo but as species memory.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:12:15 (GMT)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Of course, I'm not an expert in this arena :-)
Message:
Pat, thanks for the return post. Well, I had similar 'experiences,' if you will. It just hit home when I saw that TV special.

A very dear friend of mine (and ex-tripping partner) saw the show at the same time as I did and we just looked at each other in total amazement. I mean..... could it be????? Could THAT be it? Could THAT be what we saw, too? You know what I mean?

It was a minor (understatement) epiphany, assuming I'm not just totally full of crap. It sure makes real sense to me and it doesn't require the slightest belief in anybody's mumbo-jumbo. I've seen what I thought were DNA strands up close and personal, too. However, my 'experience' was post-discovery and post-microscopy, so it could have been a local-memory, as opposed to a genetic memory. BUT, when you hear the guy who 'discovered' it tell you that he saw it the same way, except PRIOR to its discovery, well....... THAT is another story. I mean, does the brain have THAT kind of resolution? Is it possible to see, not just the 'memory' itself but the 'media' it's written on (DNA/RNA)? I think the scientists in Europe have a large lead on this issue since they are still permitted to experiment with those potential 'memory enhancers.' The U.S. stopped all experimentation some time around the mid-70's, I think.

I guess it's possible that god's universe is shrinking again....... he he he (a joke for those that know me) :-)

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 22:22:30 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: New-Age Redneck
Subject: Did you also see simple atoms?
Message:
I ''saw'' many things on acid but haven't got a clue where reality stopped and imagination took over or even sometimes if imagination is not what reality really is. Just half kidding. Hey I'm just an old hindu hippie tripper.
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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 21:10:25 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: What TV special was that? NT
Message:
NOT
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:14:29 (GMT)
From: Careless Castinyoga
Email: naah
To: Crazy?: We Were Fooled
Subject: reFocus e-news- for recovering cult members. FYI
Message:
Welcome to the Vol. 2, No. 2 edition of the reFOCUS Forum: An Internet
Newsletter for Recovery

reFOCUS is: ...a network of referral and support for former members of
closed, high demand groups, relationships or cults.

reFOCUS is dedicated to the recovery of former members...please visit our
web site at We are a tax-exempt not-for-profit
corporation - all contributions to reFOCUS are 100% tax deductible. Because
reFOCUS is dedicated to recovery, we are looking for suggestions and input
from you: are there articles or topics you want to see covered? Are there
questions you need answered? Email us at torefocus@aol.com

>From our Readers:

Dear reFOCUS,

I'm a former member of an eastern/new age cultic group and am also a mental
health professional in Colorado. A couple months ago in the reFOCUS
newsletter there was a letter from a former member who addressed the issue
of children who grow up in cults and the unique issues they face in
recovery. This is an area I am currently focusing on in my professional work
and am eager to be in touch with former members who were raised in closed,
high demand groups or cults, or, with former members who are the parents of
such individuals. Anyone who is interested in sharing any part of their
experiences related to these issues can contact me at: lfurnari@hotmail.com
or, may contact me by phone at: 303-444-0992. I am currently working on a
presentation on this issue for a conference on cults and would like to
include thoughts from individuals who have lived these experiences. At some
point in the near future I will also be writing an article. I understand
that confidentiality is very important, and will only use information when
permission is specifically given.
Thanks, Leona Furnari

Excerpts from Letters to the Editor:

* One thing that helped me with nightmares: I found out they were unsolved
reflections in my mind concerning who the cult thought I was, now that I had
left. They would think such and such things of me, as I did of others who
had left, when I was in the group. These things I now know are not true
about me, however, not all of me has come to accept this vision. I think of
the strongest part of my character and the most good or reliable, and I
dwell on that occasionally as a picture of me that is correct.
I found that leaving a group caused me to walk through certain mental and
emotional processes that resembled those of grieving for a lost loved one.
These ranged from denial of the event to anger, acceptance and sadness, then
recovery to joy. I wish for the best for you as you walk through these in
your own way, in your own time. -Amy Hurst (name used with permission)

* Thanks for the excellent questions to ask self about the group or leader.
Anything that gets me thinking and writing about what I (I!!!) think is more
empowering than ' Ex-cult members are like this and like that.' Also, what
do I (I!!!) think (THINK!!!) about THEM is a lot more important than what
THEY think about ME because it puts me back at the centre of control in my
life. It gets rid of shame because I (I!) am examining THEM now, and gets me
out of the whole 'humilating myself trying to please them so they won't kill
me' nonsense. In other words- What are MY standards for proper behavior that
THEY are not living up to?!

* Frankly, when I saw your notice about a newsletter, I thought, Oh please,
I'd rather put it all behind me. After all, it was 20 years ago!
But in glancing through excerpts of letters to the editor, I was surprised
to see that some of them cover issues that have affected me since leaving
the cult I was in, that I could actually relate to and am interested in
because they continue to cause serious problems for Christians right here
and now.

* * * * * * * * * *

Recovery Article of the Month

We Weren't Crazy: We Were Fooled
Michael D. Langone, Ph. D. - Executive Director, AFF

The Jonestown suicides. The Waco conflagration. The suicide of the Solar
Temple in Europe and Canada. Aum Shinrikyo's Sarin gas attack in the Tokyo
subway. And now the apparent suicides of 39 people in Ranch Santa Fe. These
'page-1' stories demonstrate the terribly destructive potential of cults.
Unfortunately, the obviously bizarre and destructive nature of such groups
cause many people to believe mistakenly that only 'crazy' people would join
them. This is simply not true.

Moreover, the prevalence of this misconception virtually guarantees that
there will be more tragedies in the future. People who join cult groups are
not 'them.' They are 'us,' and our society's inability to understand how
everyday people can join destructive groups strengthens the power of these
groups. Most people who join cults are relatively normal people experiencing
normal stresses (romantic breakup, job disappointment, loss of a loved one,
etc.) During periods of stress we are more likely to listen to someone
peddling some 'new' path to happiness, someone promising to meet our human
needs - to believe, to belong, to love.

Some groups, such as many mainstream religious groups, can indeed help us
meet these needs. Other groups, however, use these needs to deceive us. They
say in essence, 'follow us and you will be happy.' But they use subtle
manipulative tricks to disarm our critical intelligence. If we question
something, they say 'you're not ready to understand that yet,' or 'you're
too intellectual; go with your feelings,' or 'you must destroy the mind to
find God,' or myriad other rationalizations that implicitly communicate:
'Don't think. Do what I say.'

If we don't recognize these manipulative tricks, we can be led step by step
down a path where we come more and more to doubt ourselves and attribute
authority to the group's leader(s). We come to accept the group's leader(s).
We come to accept the group's fundamental assumptions (such as, Guru is God;
Reverend so-and-so knows the will of the Holy Spirit). Once these are
ingrained in our minds, we ourselves may provide the rationalizations.

So, for example, when we learn that our supposedly celibate guru is
sleeping with 15 female members, we will tell ourselves: 'Guru is not
attached to the sensual world. He is doing this to help them with their
sexual karma.' The more we rationalize, the deeper we fall into the mental
trap. If we really believe that we will achieve salvation through a ritual
suicide, it makes sense to kill ourselves.

The tragedy is that we would not have made that choice if we understood in
the beginning how we were going to be led to it. We didn't see through the
illusions, and we got caught.

We weren't crazy. We were fooled.

And if we who have not been fooled continue to think we and our loved ones
can't be fooled, we won't teach them how to recognize and resist the
deceivers. And if we don't do that, there will surely be more tragedies.

Reprinted from the Sun-Sentinel Magazine, Fort Lauderdale, Florida, April 1,
1997.

* * * * *

Comments, questions, and suggestions: email us!

reFOCUS, P.O. Box 2180, Flagler Beach, FL 32136 904-439-7541
Web site: http://www.refocus.org
Email: torefocus@aol.com

The reFOCUS Board of Directors consists of:
Carol Giambalvo, President/Secretary
Rick Seelhoff , Vice President
Mary Krawiec, Treasurer
David Clark
Maureen Griffo
Nancy Miquelon Versaw
Vanessa Weber
Advisor: Madeleine Tobias

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 12:35:05 (GMT)
From: Sean
Email: seang2@earthlink.net
To: Careless Castinyoga
Subject: What about the children?
Message:
We must all know children who were born into or raised in 'our little cult'. What does everyone know about these kids? How are they doing? Any stories you can relate?
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 17:20:52 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: What exactly is he saying here?
Message:
The latest EV daily email tract is this:

People look for immortality. Immortality exists, of course, but not where you're looking for it. People go out, and there they are - jogging 900 miles every day, in the interests of keeping in shape. But saints have called this body clay. When it begins to rain, it can't be kept in shape. The seasons will come. You will slow down. And you will be tempered. Yet, even in that moment, the same reality inside you will continue to beat. The heart does not age. The real heart that I'm talking about does not age. When joy comes, how it is received does not age. Understanding does not age. Knowledge does not age. Happiness does not age. These are the things that don't change.

Immortality? Body clay but the heart 'doesn't age'? Knowledge doesn't age? Happiness and understanding don't age? What is this?

God, how frustrating it must be to be a premie nowadays. You get these seemingly important ambiguous pronouncements that you can never clarify. I mean, is Maharaji assuring premies that imoortality is theirs or not? It sure looks that way. On the other hand, though, you just know that if you asked him that he'd never in a million years give you a straight answer. Never.

And who can a premie with a question turn to, these days? Not each other, I take it. Not any instructor. Maharaji just keeps saying shit and saying shit and saying shit and no one can ask him anything about any of it ..... what a swamp!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 18:04:41 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Go to the sauce.
Message:
Hi Jim,

He probably got it out of a new-age book somebody gave him. Did you see the post about him stealing his 'Bird of Freedom' poem?

Anth the concrete sonnet.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 00:45:37 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Jim
Subject: A Poet Speaking Across Time And Space
Message:
Bill Speaks To Prem
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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 09:38:44 (GMT)
From: Brain Smith
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: A Poet Speaking Across Time And Space/ very nice
Message:
what a great card, and appropo as well to the inherent guru greed factor
Thanks Steve
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 22:21:42 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: i wonder what he will die of. he will die, y know-
Message:
that's a truth. i wonder how it will happen. crash his plane? sink his yacht? have a heart attack in the middle of sex with monica? a stroke in the middle of one of his anger fits yelling at the servants or his wife? crash one of his cars at 100+ mph while driving drunk and recklessly? get lung cancer from the marlboros? cirrhosis from the alcohol?
i really wonder.
i wonder what marolyn looks like these days. no one's seen any pictures of her in a long time. i wonder if the aneurism left her partially paralyzed? she's going into her 50's now. i wonder if she looks old yet?
if we dont suceed in stripping him of his ill gotten fortune before he dies, i wonder what will happen to all the money and assetts? i bet they would have to be seized and sold off to pay his debt load. or the family would inherit it all. but the taxman and the probate court would get their pieces first.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 00:33:48 (GMT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: wonder
Message:
>i wonder what marolyn looks like these days. no one's seen any pictures of her in a long time. i wonder if the aneurism left her partially paralyzed? she's going into her 50's now. i wonder if she looks old yet?

I saw her at a benefit party in LA late last year.
I physically bumped into her by accident.
She looked great!
Was having a fine time with a big smile.

CD

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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 00:54:01 (GMT)
From: Tim Matheson
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: wonder
Message:
Did you get a woodie?
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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 03:17:17 (GMT)
From: CD
Email: None
To: Tim Matheson
Subject: woods
Message:
>Did you get a woodie?

No I have a T-Bird

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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 03:51:05 (GMT)
From: Tim Matheson
Email: None
To: CD
Subject: woods w/ mom
Message:
you lucky dog....scraping up against mom...I'd have blown my load BIG TIME!!!! You must be more realized then me.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:25:53 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: That He's a Perfect Asshole
Message:
Jim,

I wonder if he really believes his own lies. His stupidity shows up every time he opens his mouth and speaks. Like if it rains, you can't stay in shape, for instance.

Christ, in Vermont, people jog when it's snowing and 10 deg. F!

When the temperature goes up to 30, some wear shorts!

What a Perfect Asshole. His game is to confuse, confuse some more and refuse to answer anyone's questions.

Captain Rawat's English diction may have improved over the years, but his intelligence level, (which I used to believe was very high), must be dropping into the single digits by now--all that booze, etc.

If he wants to talk about immortality, all I have to say is: cryogenics. It's been in the news lately, too.

Off with his head!! LOLOL!

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 17:51:37 (GMT)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I think you missed the point....
Message:
Jim, it's enlightenment-through-the-path-of-meaningless-drivel... A path that he has perfected through his many years of practice on unwitting souls like you and I.

Immortality is a 'concept,' no? Then why is the self-avowed hater-of-concepts so intent on spreading this one? THAT is the question that a pwk should ask M, don't you think?

There was a time when he would address these concepts, then there was a time when he wouldn't, now there is a time where he's at it again. Oh damn, I keep forgetting..... it's just a lila (read that: another hindu concept).

BTW, the speaker-of-truth seems to be exaggerating a bit, don't you think? 900 MILES EVERY DAY???????? I think maybe not.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 21:55:22 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: New-Age Redneck
Subject: Lila
Message:
Lila is the only way he can get away with it. There isn't a premie who was active throughout the nineties that will disagree that Maharaji frequently expresses ignorance about death and what comes after. Is there life after death? Well, throughout the nineties, if I recall correctly, Maharaji would say 'I don't know'. Then he'd go on to say how Knowledge is for the living, so don't be concerned about dying, just living, and feeling gratitude that you are alive and what a precious gift that is. Now, he's saying 'of course' there's immortality. Gotta be lila. He's just fuckin' with us, right? Funny guy. Hahaha.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 02:44:55 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Remember me when you die
Message:
Recently he has been talking about what Krishna said to Arjuna about death:

What you think about in your last breath, that is where you will go, so if you remember me when you die, that is where you will go.

I know what that meant to me, I knew who I associated with Krishna.

Yet again one more contradiction - do you think that is what lila actually means?

C

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:21:56 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Connie
Subject: Remember me in your will when you die
Message:
Guess what - I figured out that's what he really meant.

Steve

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 22:24:19 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: Remember me in your will when you die
Message:
apparently, they do get quite a lot of money that way...the 70's premies are beginning to pop off! Still, it won't be enough
Kelly, who nearly lost her will!
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:13:02 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Connie
Subject: Remember me when you die
Message:
Lila? Maybe, but it is the Hindu tradition. People who follow gurus are not usually expected to be self-motivated yogis who will remember to be focussed at death. Guruism really isn't about realizing Knowledge through single-mindedness but about focussing on the guru as a substitute for one's own effort.

So when some poor spaced out premie kicks the bucket instead of struggling to remember the meditation techniques they just think about the guru and the guru comes to ''take their soul'' at the time of death.

When I recently heard him saying this in Oxnard I got the creeps. Underneath the suit their really still is an invisible Krishna mala. But hey, I must be in my mind because didn't he say, ''It's not a religion.'' No it's just Krishna-ism.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:19:16 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Exactly! public face vs private face (nt)
Message:
ssss
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 02:07:27 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Ooh, ooh, ooh!
Message:
I figured it out. Maharaji is talking about that thing inside that's immortal, even if we're not. I've heard Maharaji say that one of the greatest mysteries is how God designed us so that we could know infinity, even though we, ourselves, are finite. Of course, this flies in the face of his other 'wise' observation that the mind is finite so how can you expect it to behold the infinite? More lila, I guess.

But wait! He's talking about the heart! It's the heart that can know immortality, not the mind. But if the heart is finite, too, wouldn't that make it as incapable as the mind to know infinity? Unless the heart is infinite. But no, that can't be, because the heart is mine, and what's mine might not survive the grave. Right, Maharaji? Am I on track, here? C'mon, man, you've gotta help me out. Just what the fuck are you talking about? I've been listening to you for years, and the only thing you've done is confuse the shit out of me.

I guess I'll just shut off this mind and open my heart. Yeah, that's the ticket, right? Don't think about it. Just accept it. But er, is it okay if I ask what it is I'm supposed to accept? Just everything you say? Open my heart to it? Okay... I think. No, I'm not supposed to think. Right. Don't think, just listen. Just feeeel it, feeeel it. I got it. But I, er, don't feel it. Must be something wrong with me, eh? Yeah, that's it. It wouldn't be that you're full of shit. It could never be that. Must be something else. Must be something about me that just doesn't get it.

Right.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 17:59:21 (GMT)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: New-Age Redneck
Subject: Add to that......
Message:
The simple fact that brain chemistry has EVERYTHING to do with everything he mentioned and I can say with some confidence that those 'intangibles' do, actually, age!

I wonder, should we ask someone with alzheimer's if their 'experience' of joy, happiness, knowledge and understanding (not to mention communication) suffer with AGE? The answer to THAT question should be obvious to anyone with two brain cells left to rub together.

Tripe, tripe, tripe....

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:23:50 (GMT)
From: The Filament Hisself
Email: None
To: all you monmots
Subject: Take that !!!
Message:
Cut and paste since the fucking link doesn't work:

http://www.geocities.com/agforumdata/gooberlove.jpg

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:44:59 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: All
Subject: The Filament.....
Message:
From Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

filament:
Etymology: Middle French, from Medieval Latin filamentum, from Late Latin filare to spin (my emphasis)
Date: 1594
A single thread or a thin flexible threadlike object, process, or appendage: as a tenuous conductor (as of carbon or metal) made incandescent by the passage of an electric current;

Specifically: a) cathode in the form of a metal wire in an electron tube

b) (1) a thin and fine elongated constituent part of a gill (as on a fish, my addition)

2) an elongated thin series of cells attached one to another or a very long thin cylindrical single cell (as of some algae, fungi, or bacteria)

c: the anther-bearing stalk of a stamen.

He's a filament, alright! My favorite is some form of algae, fungi or bacteria!

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:38:45 (GMT)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: The Filament Hisself
Subject: It never gets old..... :-)
Message:
Many iterations..... ALL wonderful! :-)

Gee, has little old (and I mean that) me pissed god off THAT much? Wow, I must really be something, huh?

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:10:18 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: New-Age Redneck
Subject: Exactly!
Message:
I probably M's most serious delusion/deception is this concept of 'heart', 'happiness' whatever, being some kind of disembodied non-physical entity, and therefore immortal and unaffected by the ravages of old-age. And pretty cruel deception, at that.

But, in a way, it is the inevitable consequence of using how one feels to inform one's judgement: 'Happiness FEELS like it might be immortal to me, so - sure - happiness MUST be immortal, since everything I feel is the truth'.

BULLSHIT!!

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 19:12:08 (GMT)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Exactly!
Message:
Nigel, the thing that premies are missing, by concentrating on a 'concept,' is the REAL experience of life. It's right here and it's right now! (familiar words, eh?) All we have to do is use the eyes that evolved to see it, use the ears that evolved to hear it, use the nose..... well, I know you get the picture.

These folks are missing it all! They say that they want to be 'humble,' and yet they absolutely IGNORE the most awesome force in the universe...... Life (REAL LIFE) itself. They think there is something 'better'..... Better than LIFE??????? Better than amino acids? Better than molecules? Better than atomic particles.... ad infinitum? Talk about lack-of-humility.... They ignore the real, while chasing the 'concept' of something better. What an incredible INSULT to life!

I lay humbled before the universe that I can actually SEE (with the the sensor that was evolved for me to use for that very purpose). Awesome..... absolutely awesome!

As a side-note, did you see the 'special' that was discussing the research/uses of psychoactive chemicals? I think it was produced in Europe. Did you hear the discoverer of the DNA strand tell us how he did it? In case you didn't, he said..... this is unbelievable.... that he actually 'saw' it on an LSD trip. I kid you not, he actually admitted that! All of this prior to our ability to 'see' it with a microscope! Not only that.... he said he saw the actual makeup of the strands (e.g. A,C,G,T). Genetic memories maybe? Is THAT what this is all about? Considering the simple fact of inheritance (with the attendant possibility of inherited 'memories') and 120 BILLION neurons at our disposal and I think we might be on to something here, no? What if those chemicals actually enabled us to 'experience' those billions upon billions upon billions of memories stored in our collective brains..... pretty awesome, eh? Is it our rather limited understanding of what those memories actually are/were that could be causing all of these 'god' concepts and such when they are 'experienced' on-the-fly (e.g. NOT chemically induced)?

How about 'regression' experiences? WE didn't live 'before,' our furry/fanged ancestors did and passed the 'memories' on to us. Jeez, a 'memory' from a few generations ago would be relatively 'fresh' under those circumstances. No wonder people 'feel' so strongly about the so-called regression experience. I'm assuming, of course, that regression is not just a total fig-newton of the imagination...... :-)

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 01:40:19 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: New-Age Redneck
Subject: Pretty far fetched
Message:
Are you suggesting we 'inherited' memories through our ancestors' DNA? I don't know, Redneck. That's a pretty imaginative theory you've got going there. As for the guy who discovered DNA (Francis Crick?) 'seeing' it on acid, that's the first I've heard of it. They also say Jerry Garcia got the name for his band when he was on acid. Legend has it that he saw the name rise up off of the floor... The Grateful Dead. As Arsenio Hall used to say, that's one of those things that make you go... Hmmmm.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 17:38:04 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: What exactly he be saying here.
Message:
This isn't really M at his most confusing. This is pretty standard Hindu dogma isn't it? The body will age and die, but the eternal soul won't. Although he is, as usual, pretty inarticulate about what this really implies about how we are to live in this world.

Since M is wary about committing himself to anything definite, he uses words like 'heart,' 'joy,' 'happiness,' and, the ultimate weasel word in DLM/EV: 'Knowledge.'

Premies have always seen this as a plus. M's refusal to engage in any real discussion about spiritual growth becomes a selling point: 'This is not a religion!'

In reality, M's vagueness leaves premies perpetually unsure of themselves and their place in the cosmos, other than knowing that without Guru Maharaj Ji, they would be lost.

And that is, after all, the cult's core value.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:43:47 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: The new revised version of Maharaj Jism
Message:
Sometimes, perhaps when he has a hangover, he now says ''Knowledge is the closest you will ever get to immortality.''

And that ''even if you don't fully realize Knowledge at least you know that there is the possibilty of Knowledge.''

I have begun to think that even he has doubts about the worth of Knowledge but he keeps up the pretense otherwise he'd be out of business.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:40:36 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Exactly, Gregg
Message:
It seems Maharaji learned to talk like a weasel at a very early age, and has just continued doing that.

The problem for Maharaji is, that might work for keeping premies so off balance that they stay in the fold, but it doesn't work for propagation. You can't just say shit like that to normal, not previously indoctrinated people, because it is so vague, unclear and incoherent, that they just can't relate.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:46:24 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Exactly, Joe
Message:
It is quite embarassing. Tell anybody about the ''possibilty'' of Knowledge of god and they will laugh in your face.

Maharaj Jism is still a Cult!

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:49:38 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Hey Pat, guess who I saw...
Message:
I saw one of the Church Ladies on the J Church Muni today. Isn't that a coincidence, a church lady on the J Church? Okay, not so funny.

Anyhow, I think the church lady avoided me. I was hurt. God, those premies I knew in ashram sure look old. Funny how they are all aging and I never do. It must be because I run 900 miles a day!

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 19:00:27 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: But wait til it rains or gets cold, Joe.:)..nt
Message:
mm
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:53:54 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Hey Joe, I can guess who you saw
Message:
The word must be getting around that you and I are now OPPOSING the Bratguru.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 19:49:57 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: It's about time.....
Message:
What good is a reputation is nobody knows about it?
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 20:47:51 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: The local church-lady gossip
Message:
has by now probably told all the other church-ladies all about my apostasy at the leaderless team meetings on Church St (how appropriate) on Sun Afternoons after the synchronized satellite broadcasts. The Louella Parsons of SF PWKdom is Jim Boger. He took over the job after David Elbaz kicked the bucket.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:48:30 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Exactly, Pat (nt):)))
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 16:23:44 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: rawatsucks@yahoo.com.au
To: Everyone
Subject: Search engine results. Read.
Message:
Seeing that there have been few inquiries regarding search engines and position in the search result, I have made the great sacrafice of having to dig up results of search engines and tabulate them according to site/position/search engine. Am still working on the page but this is the first result,

search engine results

If you have any suggestions e-mail me above.

to AG: Lycos did not find you, well at least not in the first 150 sites, I did not bother to look further. Are you listed with them.

to Cdikey: Same problem like AG but with HotBot.

I may look for other engines that will list everyone. I did not put rawatsucks, because it always comes first and I did not think it is fair for you :)

I will be updating these results whenever I have time.

Any problems, see
salam@rawatsucks

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 16:46:30 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Salam ?
Message:
did you check your email today ?

(Phase III)

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 16:56:56 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Yes
Message:
I just got it. Thinking of my next move. Contact taken a turn on me. Too busy at present. Will check and reply.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 08:16:20 (GMT)
From: Twiz
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Anything Goes. (Sort of OT)
Message:
I am in the wilderness with an ISP problem and cannot access anything at all, at all. Thus I am posting at various back pack situations and have a desire to see what is happening on Anything Goes.

What is the URL please someone.

BTW Salam, I have posted you a message below under Bazza's birthday thread. I always had problems with your eMails at my home eMail and am wondering if the same thing will happen at hotmail.

Hooroo.

Twiz/Oliver etc.
Ps. I was'nt there
I did'nt do it and
I know nothing!!!
(Bart Simpson)

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 09:55:24 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Twiz
Subject: Anything Goes. (Sort of OT)
Message:
Dear Twiz,
AG URL:
http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=forumlite

Hope you are well.
Love,
Robyn

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 15:28:51 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Anything Goes. (Sort of OT)
Message:
and yes, I still have the scanner. Where the hell are you anyway?
And please don't ring me at 3 in the morning to tell where you are, am trying to be normal.

Hey, I don't read this place much now, been busy, luck I read your post. Cal me when you come back and we will discuss moola.

salam

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 10:28:51 (GMT)
From: such
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: didja say 'moola'? Almost had it all this incarna-
Message:
-tion.

Hi Salam, just cruising the site to see what's happened lately, mate. looks like the same old, same old...

Here, I will reveal m.'s own personal mantra (allegedly imparted to him by the Rev. Jimmy Swaggert [he's Jerry Lee Lewis' cousin, incidentally]): 'In God we trust; all others pay me cash...'

Hey, judge not that ye not be judged, right? I mean, 'it's not easy to be rich. It's not what you think!' - marjoe [the greedy bastard] at Long Beetch, Californica

Truly, he earned it all the old-fashioned way -- the millenially tried and true terrestial methodology. Using the Name of God to extort and swindle gullible, trusting people out of hundreds of millions of dollars takes some Real Talent, huh? Maybe dubya will give him a presidential pardon, too, when the fit hits the sham. Or, maybe m. will just have to learn to Sing sing and be a Sole dad or make his bread Leaven worth, and then he can imbibe con-yack all he wants, because there will be bars in every room there, too... [mer d'ici {fr pun}]

By the way, that dung beetle trip actually worked! I got Liberation, got the moola [ah wouldn't fool ya, bubba], but then forgot to ask for the blondies. (darn) Then immediately invested the moola in a diversified hi-tech NASDAQ portfolio last month -- and lost big-time. Well, easy come, easy go -- guess I can still be a swami, anyway. And, most importantly, I still got Liberation!!! It worked, my ol' beetle buddy.

Last by not least, I had a big-screen technicolor doursham dream the other night. I was there with the ex-Lard, right in his face, and I told him, 'Dude, you need to 'fess up and step down Right Now! Your whole scam trip is busted, man.' And there was some discussion with him among the fawning honchos and doting PAMs. Finally, da ex-Lard replied, 'Swamiji, you're right. OK, I quit; I hereby retire. But can I still keep the money? Also, how about you teach me some guitar, and I'll teach you Hindi?' Very amicable -- kind of like family court [but not like the Rawat bros litigated feud over the family biz]! haha

See ya next time, mate. Liberation is great! Forgive, but Don't forget...

Peace and lentils,

da lil' swami

PS May I interest you in some lovely kriya yoga techniques I picked up among the sannyasins of Rishikesh? Very good, effective stuff [ask Ram Dass], just please to make small donation, ok? But if you have millions, give millions. Such a blissful opportunity for gratitude and appreciation, ok, my dear brother? No need for smart-card, too! badges? we don't need no stinking badges here. hohoho Oh well, it's time for samadhi again. Ciao!

rumour of the week: m. received auto-knowledge from Ted Farkel.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 23:07:42 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: such
Subject: Oh hello suchaji me lil'ol mate
Message:
nice to see you are ticking and on the straight and narrow, just be carefull of them dream with chubby, you saw what he did to kapp, turned him in a whole pile of dung krapp. Yes me mate, moola is likw a mirage for me. So close but so far. I must have done some real depp shit in a past lifetime to pay for it now. sheesh.
Like you say same old in here, have not been reading much, busy doing other things, I think I am vanishing in an interdimensionally parallel yet horizantlly unreal reality that crosses over through another vector of space and time causing an alignment of illusion that appears to reflect the hidden nature of all false objects in a sperical pattern.........

Otherwise, am trying to say am a bit fucked at present.

(shit, what a life)

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 23:17:31 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: Forgot to say
Message:
Am turning into a new age person, you all that shit with crystal, aromatherepy, homopathetic, afermations and all that stuff. Don't know yet, but do you think my ideas will be excepted here. Not sure, if I need to conform to some sort of rules or something, are you aware of that? Is there anyone on the forum that I should ask that will tell? Now let me think....mmmmm.....him.....aaa....eee..oooo......

Yeah, got it,.....no....mmmmm...

Can not come up with a name.

(f**k)

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 03:54:54 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: New Email (OT)
Message:
By the grace of Earthlink, and DSL, which if you haven't tried it is one of the greatest things ever invented (okay, so I'm exaggerating). I have a new email address. Sorry about this, but this is easier than emailing all of you individually.

For those of you who have my office email, that remains the same.

DSL is great, and FAST...!

Joe

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 03:55:53 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: kevjo@mindspring.com
To: Joe
Subject: DUH!
Message:
Sorry, there is the email address.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 22:00:26 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I sent you one, did you geddit? nt
Message:
rt
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:24:52 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Kelly
Subject: Yes (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:09:18 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Are you in your mind,Joe? nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 03:46:18 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Event in Portland, OR
Message:
This via email announcement:

Exciting news!!

Although the 'official' announcement is still forthcoming, there will be a two day event in Portland, OR on March 18 and 19 at the Schnitzer Auditorium. Details as soon as they are known.

People are needed to help staff the event. If you have been involved in any previous events, please contact your area supervisor. If you are interested but have not helped previously, please contact Lorelynn Cardo in Portland

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 17:27:26 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: FA -- PLEASE REMOVE NUMBER and EMAIL
Message:
Just talked with Ms. Cardo. Nice, typical premie. I called to ask her if it would be possible for a few exes to come in the front door, so to speak, and to ask a few questions at this upcoming event. I explained that it was literally impossible to get an answer from EV itself so I was turning to even its semi-official, volunteer-type agents like herself.

She said she'd heard that her number and email had gone out and even that announcement was premature and shouldn't have happened. She was concerned that people that hate Maharaji were going to scare her kid or something. I explained that that wasn't on but that, yes, someone like me might call for the reasons I gave.

Anyway, beside having a nice chat about the typical shit, she asked me to ask the FA to remove her email and number promptly. I said I would.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 21:39:29 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: This may only be a 'what if' announcement
Message:
In the past, a huge flurry of anticipation got generated by any suggestion that an 'event' might be happening in a city. Word goes out for 'particiption' opportunities in case an event does take place. This happened in Seattle a few years ago when a lot of money was raised to secure a venue, people were lined up to do certain things and then that entire tour was cancelled because the Cap'n was obsessing over the DVD Auto Knowledge project. Needless to say, the funds were lost and the effort wasted - synchronized or not.

The fact that this Portland, OR event is still tenative with only TWO WEEKS lead time is not exactly profesional. Most events get planned at least a year in advance. But then again, whatever he wants, eh?

I'm sorry this person felt threatened and thanks Jim for passing her request to FA. Funny that she wasn't open to a group of ex's attending and allowed to ask questions.

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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 01:58:13 (GMT)
From: JTF
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: This may only be a 'what if' announcement/the scam
Message:
Did they refund the donations??? Of course not.

I remember back in the mid 90's, they wanted to leave the hotels for the local video cult events. They told us they identified a place of OUR own and asked for special contributions. They even had a special meeting for it. Davis Smith, even, talked it up.

Then it fell apart and nothing was ever mentioned about it. once again, no refunds.

Last year, they ran an Amaroo scam and it never happened, no refunds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cult members beware!!!!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 23:32:08 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: Schnitzer Auditorium
Message:
This is a big place in downtown Portland, isn't it Postie? If you know, anyway. That's what I recall. It doesn't seem to me to be the type of venue one could get at the last minute. A call to the management could help sort whether it really is booked or not and if it is, for what.

Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 23:50:40 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Schnitzer Concert Hall URL
Message:
Only seats 2200.

Here's the URL:

http://www.pcpa.com/halls/asch.html

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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 02:45:14 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: Schnitzer Concert Hall ONLY seats 2200
Message:
More than enough Postie - only 1800 regular contibutors to EV. No make that 1799.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 22:35:29 (GMT)
From: Kelly
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: This may only be a 'what if' announcement
Message:
Yeah but he wants to be more spontaneous now, a bit like the old days...just going where there is a need etc...remember the days of when it was like...Only if our desire to see him is strong and pure enough will he appear, so let's all pray harder..and really get into the word...meantime ,guess what he was doing?
well, I didn't know then, but I sure as hell know now. Thanks to Dettmers et all.
Kelly
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 11:22:23 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: delores@gofree.indigo.ie
To: Postie
Subject: Registration fee only 800 bucks!
Message:
Postie, could you keep us updated about whether Captain Rawat is going to appear at this event? I echo Joe's sentiment - if he's making a personal appearance, the registration for Amaroo is low.

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 11:43:27 (GMT)
From: JTF
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Registration fee only 800 bucks!
Message:
I think that Portland cult event is needed for inventory purposes. They need to have new stuff for satellite viewing every once in awhile. Out of one cult event, they can create more than one video....the actual program, the best of(set w/some music, etc.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 15:32:36 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: JTF
Subject: Registration fee only 800 bucks!
Message:
Don't forget that if you are coming from overseas to Australia, you will have the cost of air travel included in the cost. No Amaroo is not cheap.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 10:08:37 (GMT)
From: Tim G
Email: timgitti@indigo.ie
To: Postie
Subject: Event in Portland, OR
Message:
Anyone know the address of Schnitzer Auditorium?
We'll let them know what sort of outfit they are hosting, as usual. Soon we'll be able to forward the hosting facilities newspaper articles detailing the Rawat scandal. The cult is becoming more secretive which is always a tell-tale sign of something to be ashamed of. But very soon it is going to be 'outed'.
Blessings to all the ex-premies. This time we have come with more power than ever before.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 06:00:45 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: Registration for Amaroo must be LOW, LOW, LOW
Message:
If this is M coming to Portland, or maybe to other places, it's probably because he feels the need to do a little tour in the US of A and drum up enthusiasm to get American PWKs to spend thousands of dollars and go to the Australian outback and eat overpriced, shitty food in the desert with a bunch of smiling-sap cult members.

That would be my bet.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 16:32:54 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Portland = Devotion Revival
Message:
Portland was where the devotion revival of 1977 started up after the 'spaced out' year of 1976. I remember I had just moved out of the ashram a year earlier and bought a little car and only went to satsang once a week (Sundays only).

My friend 'B' whom I had done full-time service with for many years and was also out of the shram at that point but still a little more in attendance at satsang calls me up and says, 'Joy, we HAVE to take your car to this Portland event, if you'd been at satsang last night, the vibe was just incredible, everyone's going, come on, we HAVE to go!' And I'm like 'Aw, no, can't be bothered.' But she talks me into it and so four of us (as many as can fit in a car, usually was the standard procedure) pile into my little Rabbit and off we head nonstop to Portland, Oregon for this event. Can't remember much about it, except that Maharaji called another one 19 days later in Montreal and thereafter every 19 days until nobody had any jobs left and we were all trembling jellies at the Lotus Feet.

It was the start of the super-devotional phase 1977-81. If M announces another 'event' in Montreal next month . . . watch out! Krishna costumes to follow!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 05:10:41 (GMT)
From: Disculta
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: So, joy...
Message:
where's old 'B' these days?

I remember her - she was wild and crazy!

love Disculta

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:03:43 (GMT)
From: D_Thomas
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: Portland = Devotion Revival
Message:
Joy,

Well I can't remember much about what was said at the Portland program. I do remember that I was bummed out about M & K in general, but I wanted to give it one more try hoping something would kick in. So I went. I got into my red Vega and drove up the Central Valley route. I remember seeing these volcano mountains that looked like perfect cones.

At Portland I couldn't relate to his satsang at all. I was one of the last few to get in the Darshan line, not feeling particularly surrendered. They put up screens on stage and M and and his family, it was a family affair, were behind the screens. There was Premlata, who was a toddler then, with maybe 3 or 4 'sisters' taking care of her and keeping her occupied; there was Marolyn and there was Maharaji. I didn't know if we were supposed to pranam to all three.

I remember being in the lobby, when I thought it was all over. suddenly there were screams in the theater, because Maharaji had come back on stage, and everyone in the lobby rushed frantically back into the theater. Everybody except me and this girl. For me then, it was over.

She looked at me and said 'You know, I am as revolted by this as you are!'. And she gave me this pin which had this upside down five-pointed star on it. I didn't know what to make of it. I thought it might be some satanic symbol. She said 'You're welcome!' and left. I never did figure out what her trip was.

Anyway, when the premies from Berkeley found out I had driven up by myself and had room in my car, I was suddenly very popular. I suppose the other cars were too cramped. So I drove back with three other premies. I think I enjoyed the traveling more than the event itself.

David

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 05:55:23 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Postie
Subject: Ok! I'm going to be in Oregon on business then
Message:
I'll be there!!!

Hope I can get in.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 22:44:45 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Check Marianne for a Smart Card Roger
Message:
if she's come round by then, and not received a custodial sentence.

Anth the right card.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:07:28 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: Has Schnitzer Aud. personnel been to EPO? nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 03:06:26 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: You need a Master
Message:
My Ex-Roomy sent this to me, I believe it is from a recent video or from the EV Newsletter:

'Do you need a Master? Yes, you need a Master. And more than that - more than that - you need to listen to the Master, to what he is saying. Take each step carefully, deliberately. Don't walk too fast. Don't walk too slow. Don't forget to rest, but don't forget to resume this journey. Both are important. Know that under no circumstances can you afford to get lost. Getting lost is not an option, my friends. Drowning in the sea of illusion is not an option. Being confused in this life is not an option. Drowning in the sea of sorrow is not an option. Not acceptable. It's not a happening thing.'

Getting lost is not an option? FEAR

Drowning in the sea of illusion? Too Late. She has gone down for the third time. The sea of illusion is the crap M sells. The above passage is proof of his manipulation.

Ahhhh, the fishing is still good, and the Premies are still biting.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 16:56:29 (GMT)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: I say again.....
Message:
WHO says 'you need a master?' Who, precisely who, says that you are living in an illusion and are unable to find the door without the aid of a master? SURPRISE, SURPRISE, SURPRISE.... why, it's the self-proclaimed 'master' and lord of the universe, that's 'who!' And 'we' believed this guy?????????

He's doing nothing but marketing himself (as the one-and-only living 'whatever'). I'd like to see Coca-Cola take him on..... after all, their own marketing says they are 'THE real thing,' right?

To the chorus I add..... Fuck YOU, Mahaloser! 'I' am my own master and don't need the likes of an idiot like you telling me about MY life. I'll use it, abuse it or waste it as 'I' see fit! It's MINE, get it? It wasn't given to me by you.... you had absolutely NOTHING to do with it and you never will!

You know, if '...Being confused in this life is not an option...' then why, oh why, do you try SO hard to spread total confusion wherever/wherever you speak? If it's so damned 'unacceptable,' why are you, yourself, the living tower-of-babble? Even the Tao-te-ching is clear on this one: 'Water becomes clear through stillness.....' It DOESN'T say 'water becomes clear through inane/insane babble, mind-fucks or so-called masters!' Oh yeah..... it's just a lila.... I forgot.... YOU ASSHOLE!

By the way, M and EV lurker/monitors..... on this particular issue, I'm not the least bit 'confused' (a word you love to abuse daily).

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 15:04:38 (GMT)
From: Michael Dettmers
Email: dettmers@gylanix.com
To: jondon
Subject: And here's why
Message:
I wonder whom the Master turns to when he is 'drowning in the sea of illusion?' I mean, how else would the Master characterize someone who deals with his sorrow and confusion by indulging in booze, drugs, sexually exploits women, and fleeces people with false claims so he can enjoy mansions, private jets, yachts and jewelry?

Unless, of course, the Master is god. I guess that's why Élan Vital spells Master with a capital 'M'. How stupid of me. Of course, god cannot get confused so whatever he does is beyond reproach. So why would god need a Master? Only us weak and fallible humans can get lost or confused. Now I understand why we need a Master.

Thanks Maharaji for reminding us once again that the Master, the living Lord, is still among us serving as a role model so that we will know how to avoid the confusion and pitfalls of this 'illusion.'

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:28:25 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Good Point
Message:
Since I do not need a Master to show me the way, does this mean that I am a God? or at least Lord of the Northern Hemisphere? This guy is either 'In his Mind' (and pulling a great con on a bunch of sheep) or he is 'out of his Mind' and thinks he is God.

Or Both.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 16:39:22 (GMT)
From: Joy
Email: None
To: Michael Dettmers
Subject: Why is he no longer 'Perfect' Master
Message:
When did he drop the 'Perfect' part of that equation?

Just plain old 'Master' sounds kind of controlling and scary. Like he's into S&M or something.

How and when did he devolve from Perfect Master to just the Master? Master of what, exactly? How to fleece innocent westerners (and Indians) out of their money and live like the Sultan of Brunei? Yes, I'm sure he could teach a Master's Degree in that.

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 19:06:17 (GMT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Joy
Subject: I like the name 'Master.'
Message:
It is just so blissful (and I have to admit I get REALLY turned on) when Maharaji refers to himself as 'the Master.' Wow. I immediately begin squirming in my seat when he says that at programs, know what I mean? On several occasions, I nearly wet my pants, or at least it seems I got very wet, know what I mean, Joy?

And Elan Vital has been very clear as to why Maharaji doesn't use the word 'Perfect' anymore. It's because that is a confusing Hindu concept that is just so hard for people to understand. I mean, it's just so clear that when Maharaji got rid of all those Hindu terms, and replaced them with really cool ones, like 'Elan Vital,' everything became 'perfect' without Maharaji actually having to say so. On the other hand, the word 'Master' is just so relatable to people, including:

1) Those who are currently, or used to be, slaves;
2) Those who are active in the leather,S&M, and B&D scenes;
3) Those who remember that Fire Sign Theater satire of Maharaji, when they called him 'The Perfect Masterbator;'
4) Those who went to repressive, British Public Schools, and engaged in youthful homosexuality with their School 'Masters', and/or just really like that Sidney Poitier movie, 'To Sir With Love.'

Since these groups comprise 99.9% of the world's population, Maharaji was just so insightful to keep calling himself 'the Master,' because it is just so relatable to people. Isn't he just the smartest being who has ever lived? I mean, if he wasn't so smart, how could he be so rich? That's what I'd like to know from you disgraceful, confused ex-premies. Tell me that, will you?

Plus, I, Pauline, really enjoy the stimulation, as long as I can keep it under control, by his grace of course.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:25:15 (GMT)
From: Suchabanana
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Firesign Theater was created at my house (ot
Message:
Firesign Theater was created at my house, which later became a premie house in the mid 70s, ironically. true. Osman and Proctor were loyal regulars at my music gigs, too. They liked da music, da booze and they Always had some green, but were not so fond of da sadsong - hahaha. brings back the memories... much fun and games. In retrospect now, such divine bliss and lila!

LOL

da lil' swami

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:54:04 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Suchabanana
Subject: No shit! (nt)
Message:
ffffff
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 20:12:58 (GMT)
From: New-Age Redneck
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 02:54:26 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: New-Age Redneck
Subject: BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA! You laugh like a guy I
Message:
used to know who came around here....Mike I think. Could it be?
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 19:23:16 (GMT)
From: Charles S.
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Propagation and the ''Master''...
Message:
I know just what you mean, Pauline. I remember the gay premies in the Haight, who would sometimes mix with the S and M crowd. They would meet some guy who was looking for a ''Master'' to tie them up and ''do things'' to them. To such persons, the gay premies loved to say, ''I can introduce you to the PERFECT Master. He not only teaches S and M, he teaches S, S and M.''

Such a wonderful way to propigate, don't you think?

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 19:47:42 (GMT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Charles S.
Subject: You are confused, Charles...
Message:
I know you until recently had THAT understanding, but now, you sound like you are not listening to your heart at all, and that is just so unsynchronized. If you had THAT love and THAT experience, you would know that Maharaji thinks being gay is a big joke, and you should get over it. Bondage sex is okay for heterosexuals, but not otherwise. Okay? That just isn't funny and very unlike a leaderless work team, which is how people in Elan Vital get things done.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Maharaji recommended 'ex-gay' ministries as a way of getting over your problem. In those groups they say you can change, change, change, but now that you are so confused you probably just say they should start with their shoes.

All I can say, Charles is get thee to a video!!!

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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 19:11:12 (GMT)
From: Thelma
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Oh Pauline, you and your SS+M kink NT
Message:
h
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 04:02:11 (GMT)
From: Sean
Email: seang2@earthlink.net
To: jondon
Subject: You need a Master
Message:
I really don't give a damn if I'm in illusion, M never changed that. I don't care if I'm lost, M never changed that and I'd rather be lost than sitting at those lotus feet. As long as people like the googe are around there will always be a sea of sorrow. Like the lady said 'Aint nobody's business but my own'.
Life goes on and I'll feed the worms no matter what. Fuck you M.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:10:14 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Sean
Subject: If I need Captain Rawat, a Perfect Master
Message:
THEN I ALSO NEED A LOBODOMY!!!!!

Here are some choice quotes from the Captain Rotwat regarding the perfect master which I gleaned from some moldy stuff I still have:

''You need someone to reveal the Truth to you. When you want to learn math, you need a math master. When you want to learn physics, you need a physics master. And when you want to learn perfection, you need a Perfect Master. when you approach this Master, he reveals to you one secret, the Truth that is within us.''

BULLSHIT!!!!

And some more:

Question:

''Guru Maharaji, how do we realize Truth? Is it really possible?''

Answer:

''You must ask the Master how to do it. That is why that power manifests itself into a body, into the Perfect Master. The Perfect Master comes and removes all the darkness, and brings the supreme Light into the world. If you find him, you will get it; if don't find him, you won't get it. He is not in caves or mountains. Search and you will find him.''

Question:

''So God cannot teach anthing, except through a Master?''

Answer:

''What is God? You don't know what God is. God cannot be a human being. God is Light; God is power. God cannot talk. Electricity cannot give light. Only the bulb gives light, but electricity has to be put through the wire for the bulb to give light. It's power. Power cannot do anything; it has to be put through a medium. Yes?''

WHAAAAT??????

Question:

''Guru Maharaji, are you permanently in God-consciousness?''

Answer:

''Yes, I am permanently in God-consciousness?''

PERFECT BULLSHIT, PERFECT CON-MAN, PERFECT ASSHOLE!!!

I don't know when the ''perfect'' was removed from Captain Rotwat's title, but my guess is that when western premies started leaving in droves, he needed to get rid of the Guru title as well in order to scoop up some more devotees.

He's a master of manipulation. He's a fraud, a conman, a liar. Capt. Rotwat is such a liar and conman. Yes, I repeated myself, LOL!

My speculation is that he's embarking on a ''new-age'' devotional period because he wants more stuff, more money, more things, booze, yachts, dope, blondes, etc., etc....

What jars my cookies the most is that I NEVER EVER EVER was searching for a master of any kind. Eastern religions turned me OFF big time, and me, a smart, sharp, (blonde) young woman got duped by his devotees, and then by Capt. Rotwat into wasting my soul, love, emotions and life on this BIG TIME CREEP!

What a PERFECT JERK! What a PERFECT BULLSHIT ARTIST

ooooooooooh am I mad!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 02:49:20 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: I'm mad too , in fact fucking livid ,
Message:

you know , it's this wonderful feeling that keeps bubbling up from within inside of me , when I least expect it , but especially whenever HE floats into my thoughts .

I never had it as bad as you , the abortion etc , or as most other people who post here .

I was one of the 'lucky' ones who never made it into the ashcan.

I really feel for you now though , even though I disliked most of you at the time .

I don't know what I would have done if I'd been fucked with on that scale ; pressured into an abortion
sexually abused
denied the right to visit a dying parent
pressured into working like a slave
& all the rest

I can't explain what I think I might have done as it would breach the forum guidlines.

Here's a hint though. Rawat never went down big in Sicily ,did he ?

I wonder why ?

Che Cazza Voi , Stronzo .

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 03:47:34 (GMT)
From: Sean
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: The googe sleeping with fishes?(nt)
Message:
m
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 18:24:18 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Last year the Bratguru said
Message:
''No one since the beginning of time has ever saved themselves. You need the Master to save you because you are struggling like a fly caught in a spider's web. The more you struggle, the more you get entangled. Only the Master in his mercy and his kindness can come and gently lift you out of that we.''

And straight into the jaws of another larger SPIDER. Except of course I never could relate to being a fly caught in a spider's web unless the web was the web of deceit and confusion which he so carefully spins with his lies and immorality.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 02:57:35 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Maybe the web
Message:
referred to was this web (EPO) and we are the spiders?

C

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 04:22:34 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Connie
Subject: Maybe the web - ouch, Connie
Message:
I am definitely not a spider and I don't think you are. Although maybe real spiders are nice but I don't like them. You know he meant the web of maya/mind. Maybe us manmuts are spiders. I'm sure he thinks we are. But I love the maya and my mind thanks. This world and my intelligence are most enjoyable.

Talk about duality. Did it ever cross your mind that while he was talking about ''not being in duality'' that he was stuffing the biggest concept of duality down our throats, the biggest separation and estrangement and conflict in us by dichotomising body/soul and heart/mind? I think just having a guru is the ultimate duality.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 07:25:34 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Persistence
Message:
I don't think I, you or anyone here is a spider. I was joking with that dry sense of humour I have. You know web - website.

I was talking about what I think he is really referring to in his talks sometimes. I used to put everything he said into a 'spiritual framework', gave it some deep meaning.

I know all about the Hindu trappings and concepts, believe me. I was well familiar with, and immersed in them before I came to k.

In the last few years I stopped giving everything he said such metaphorical and lofty meaning.

Within the talks he gives, I believe he often says things that are to do with nothing more than his own problems and wants, and there is nothing more to it.

They are not said directly in a general open address to pwk, and as such can be ambiguous. I mean he does not come out directly and say -

I am not happy with this
I have problems and I am really pissed
I want this
Don't do that
You guys are fucked
Remember me in your will when you die - loved it!

These things can be said in different settings, where he can be more direct and more himself.

Compare general addresses with that propagation video of excerpts from Amaroo and US. The way he spoke to a selected group was very different. And those excerpts were probably edited, as are the general addresses.

Separating the spiritual (which by the way he makes great fun of) meaning I attributed, from his greed and dictatorial rule that was starting to show, gave me the ability to see him in a different light. For a while now his true personality has mingled with his stage persona. Or maybe I just got wiser.

God! You're you're pushing me to think, and making me detail every letter from A to Z, in the reasoning behind the post, again. thanks

C

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 07:43:13 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Connie
Subject: Persistence
Message:
I'm not deliberately pushing you to think. I immediately sensed when you first began to post that you and I could eventually talk to each other if we cleared up our semantics first - like your dry humor. Nobody understands my sense of humor so I don't usually worry when my jokes fall flat.

Like you I knew all about the Hindu stuff before meeting the urug and like you I have seen that he does not like it and thinks of himself as a unique and special person not as part of a tradition. But, if he isn't part of a tradition such as being an avatar of Krishna, he hasn't got a leg to stand on. The Indian premies all think he is.

Are we meant to simply have faith in him because he says so? Give me a break. To me the man not only over-rates his own intelligence but he may have a few screws loose if he thinks that he is the savior. The charitable part of me thinks that he thinks he is sincere. The cynical part of me sees him as a cunning, shrewd but definitely not very wise businessman, or should I say conman.

I just finished watching ''The Eyes of Tammy Faye'' which has nothing really to do with this but it sort of does in that there was the public/private split and she was in the same god-business. Tammy Faye comes out smelling like roses compared with Fallwell who basically destroyed PTL. And she sure is more open and honest than the urug eventhough she at one time probably had as much money and power as he does. It is worth seeing.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 09:36:37 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Jerry Falwell --OT
Message:
Yes, Jerry Falwell and his best friend Tinky Winky: what a pair! I was telling some friends here about the Tinky Winky controversy and the only thing they could say was, 'What is it about you Americans?'

Much love, Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 08:06:36 (GMT)
From: Connie
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: I want to be pushed to think Pat
Message:
It gives me a better understanding of ME, and allows me to express some things that were simmering.

I have been thinking (I was voted in the early days as the worst mind of them all) about sanity. I can't answer your question about wheather he thinks he is the saviour, I don't know. What I don't understand is if he really thinks he is why he has to hide it, you would think it would be something to be pretty proud of and to yell it from the rafters.

I did once wonder if all the word changes and presentation of it, including the no advertising, had nothing more than a legal context. In this day of litigation, proclaiming you are greater than god might be a bit risky don't you think.

C

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 08:10:48 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com
To: Connie
Subject: Legalities
Message:
Yes, I really did come away with that impression whenever the honchos would come over to have dinner. (If you email me I'll tell some details I am reluctant to mention here.)

I guess if you have millions of Indian premies all believeing the Radhasoami tradition that the guru is the savior and were raised to think you are then probably you might believe it.

It is really all so schizo.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 21:58:23 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Aw come on Conlon - tell the stories
Message:
You can leave the names off if you must.
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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 02:40:58 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: Aw come on Conlon - tell the stories
Message:
Yes I will change names. PWKs are not to blame. I've got a file called ''Thelma Does Battle with the Church Ladies'' which is my emails and letters to the local PWKs who were participating in a synchronized way. The other half is to reconstruct their responses and reactions to those letters of outrage which finally led up to a letter of resignation. You see, they did not put anything in writing. Instructions of EV legal department.
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:06:27 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: i found a sticker on a lightpole that said...
Message:
'Savior self'

>
while waiting for a bus last year. i busted out laughing out loud and peeled it off the pole and stuck it on my wallet.

it turned out to be a website. check it out for the hell of it.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 01, 2001 at 13:29:26 (GMT)
From: WMary
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: My premie friend found a sticker in the...
Message:
......Bathroom in Boston, that said:

Just say Know
www.ex-premie.org
The Truth About Maharaji

I think that was one of jondon's handiwork

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Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 11:07:47 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: WMary
Subject: my kids father is printing those in boston and new
Message:
haven. long live the revolucion! he has asked to be given his own time to come out on this forum-if ever- so i leave it to him to reveal his name if he ever chooses to. but he sent me some dummy business cards with these on them not too long ago.
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Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 01:01:52 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: I may have a copyright on that...
Message:
particular card. (just kidding) 'Let the word go forth from this day forward'...as our illustrious and somewhat overweight Senator often begins his statements with.......'that I give permission to all to use that statement for any purpose, printed or whatever...'
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Date: Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 23:14:22 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: pdconlon@yahoo.com
To: janet
Subject: Cute, Janet
Message:
Here's the link for other curious people:

Savior Self

Email me, Janet.

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