salam -:- More updates on IRCC -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 07:11:33 (GMT)

__ zippy -:- More updates on IRCC -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 06:31:34 (GMT)

__ G -:- Theory about the plane -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 03:31:03 (GMT)

__ __ G -:- on second thought -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 03:44:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ G -:- Biz Jet Update -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 19:23:28 (GMT)

__ __ __ salam -:- Is this the man we are looking for -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 14:08:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ G -:- Indeed, and like father like son -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 17:48:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ G -:- aircraft search result -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 04:15:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ G -:- Sale of Gulfstream IV -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 19:49:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ G -:- some company info -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 18:54:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Postie -:- Don't M's flying toys have an HD suffix? -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 19:23:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Postie -:- Never mind on HD - old info -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 20:31:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ G -:- ^^^^^^^ SERVICE OPPORTUNITY ^^^^^^^^ -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 04:21:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- One of those corp records should show some PAM -:- Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 09:23:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ salam -:- G -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 06:04:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- No, what do you mean? -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 17:50:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- a clue -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 13:54:27 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- new entry dated October 2, 2000 -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 19:59:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ salam -:- Here is a list of all G-V registered 160 of them -:- Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 01:18:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ janet -:- his is leased -GV still owns it in savannah -:- Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 03:42:53 (GMT)

Aussi Ji -:- It's my birthday. -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 06:39:26 (GMT)

__ Brian Smith -:- It's my birthday. Happy Birthday Aussi Ji -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:56:28 (GMT)

__ __ Aussi Ji -:- Thanks Brian.I don't (hiccup)dddrink much (hiccup) -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 20:14:52 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- An AUSpicious day. -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 11:04:58 (GMT)

__ __ Aussi Ji -:- An AUSpicious day. -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:05:51 (GMT)

__ Pat Conlon -:- Happy birthday, Aussie Ji -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 08:42:38 (GMT)

__ __ Aussi Ji -:- Happy birthday, Aussie Ji -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:14:08 (GMT)

__ Robyn -:- It's my birthday. -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 07:08:18 (GMT)

__ __ Aussi Ji -:- It's my birthday. -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:24:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ Robyn -:- It's my birthday. -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 14:08:25 (GMT)

__ __ salam -:- Hello birthday lady -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 07:16:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ Marianne -:- Happy Birthday -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 10:05:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Aussi Ji -:- Happy Birthday -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:28:52 (GMT)

__ salam -:- Happy birthday boofhead. -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 06:46:37 (GMT)

__ __ Aussi Ji -:- No worries Salam you gallah -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:44:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ salam -:- New knowledge team -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 13:56:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Aussi Ji -:- New knowledge team -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 20:26:48 (GMT)

__ __ King Munmut -:- Meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars :) -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 10:44:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ Aussi Ji -:- And sheilas in bikinis and blowflies in ya eyes -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:50:36 (GMT)

sonofa -:- i dont get it -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 06:26:43 (GMT)

__ salam -:- certainly, we are the scum of this world -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 12:39:00 (GMT)

__ __ Cynthia -:- salam, we are not the scum of the world and.... -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 19:01:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ salam -:- what's in for me? -:- Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 02:47:15 (GMT)

__ Sonofa -:- I know many premies to be... -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 01:03:52 (GMT)

__ __ Charles S. -:- FA: I typed 'Sonafa' where MY name should be... -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 01:09:51 (GMT)

__ moldy warp -:- to sonofa read below posts -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 23:56:47 (GMT)

__ Monmot -:- One Quick Question -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 21:37:31 (GMT)

__ cq -:- you haven't got it yet? -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 20:37:56 (GMT)

__ Cynthia -:- i dont get it...Well I do... -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 18:27:10 (GMT)

__ toby -:- i dont get it -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 17:45:44 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- you'll get it one day. -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 11:11:04 (GMT)

__ Abi -:- i dont get it -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 07:07:24 (GMT)

Sazyou -:- 28 years later -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 05:50:04 (GMT)

__ Joe -:- Geez -- Are you on the cover of People? -:- Tues, Mar 06, 2001 at 00:34:03 (GMT)

__ Michael Dettmers -:- 28 years later -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 19:21:17 (GMT)

__ Susan -:- other not as serious questionsfor sazyou -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 17:35:53 (GMT)

__ Joy -:- Materialism = Realization of God -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 06:48:49 (GMT)

__ __ such -:- I missed out;I took asceticism and kn seriously! -:- Tues, Mar 06, 2001 at 01:27:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Swami, think 'plastics' as in SmartCards which -:- Tues, Mar 06, 2001 at 03:04:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ such -:- we were naive, but at least there's Integrity! (nt -:- Tues, Mar 06, 2001 at 22:33:52 (GMT)

__ __ E. Windsor -:- It's a matter of breeding, my dear. -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 14:21:59 (GMT)

__ Bin Liner -:- Hey ,I'm lucky too... -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 02:20:54 (GMT)

__ __ CD -:- Hey have another FU2 -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 04:39:53 (GMT)

__ Brian Smith -:- SO WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY NOW, SEZYOU? -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 01:43:14 (GMT)

__ __ Sezyou -:- SO WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY NOW, SEZYOU? -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 04:34:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ TD -:- Sezyou - you haven't mentioned M killing a man? -:- Tues, Mar 06, 2001 at 00:09:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ E. Windsor -:- There are exceptions -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 14:41:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Brian Smith -:- There are exceptions , Why of course there is -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 21:12:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ Patrick (formerly Anon) -:- SO WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY NOW, SEZYOU? -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 12:51:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ CD -:- SAY NOW -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 21:28:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ G -:- 'I have judged M many times' -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 23:36:43 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- SOMEONE, ANYONE, PLEASE!!!! Did CD just say that? -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 21:54:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- To be or not to be , in a cult that is -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 11:42:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ Kelly -:- SO WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY NOW, SEZYOU? -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 10:19:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ Susan -:- respectfully -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 09:04:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ G -:- his mistakes and errors in judgement -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 04:47:03 (GMT)

__ Charles S. -:- Welcome to forum V... -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 00:43:24 (GMT)

__ Connie -:- 28 years later -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 00:23:44 (GMT)

__ TED Farkel -:- Can't quite believe a gal who spells her name.... -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 21:16:40 (GMT)

__ __ moldy warp -:- To TED I like wales just can't see them doing the -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 01:03:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ TED Farkel -:- Mr. Moldy Warp:TED'S got it all figgered out.... -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 03:50:18 (GMT)

__ Susan -:- explain to you -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 20:54:29 (GMT)

__ cq -:- 'tremendous affection ...' so he wasn't God then? -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 18:29:46 (GMT)

__ Jim -:- Without knowing you better ...... -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 18:21:51 (GMT)

__ __ Sean -:- Fair play to you Jim -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 04:38:17 (GMT)

__ Kelly -:- 28 years later. Watch out! -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 18:03:34 (GMT)

__ toby -:- 28 years later -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 17:52:54 (GMT)

__ la-ex -:- Sazyou,just one question abut the good life.... -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 17:22:16 (GMT)

__ E. Winsdor -:- stop being so nasty about Maharajipoos -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 16:07:10 (GMT)

__ __ Tonette -:- One of the funniest replies -:- Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 08:50:13 (GMT)

__ __ Bin Liner -:- That was a ' HOOT' .... (nt) -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 03:00:38 (GMT)

__ __ mildew warp -:- stop being so nasty about Maharajipoospotsamoney -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 00:31:16 (GMT)

__ Brian Smith -:- 28 years later / this story sounds too familiar -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:03:11 (GMT)

__ __ CD -:- years later its similar -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 04:09:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- years later its similar -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 12:15:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ JohnT -:- LIAR!! -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 10:06:05 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Well said as usual, Brian -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 20:13:03 (GMT)

__ __ Postie -:- Very eloquent Brian - you're so autodidactic. (nt) -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 17:06:02 (GMT)

__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- Good advice for Sezyou,she should also become more -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 20:26:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ Postie -:- One simple question, Sezyou -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 17:31:15 (GMT)

__ __ AJW -:- That's a great post Brian. (nt) -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:29:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ gErRy -:- Sazyou, show us yer tits !!! -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 03:15:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Thelma -:- gErRy, show us yer tits !!! -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 07:34:56 (GMT)

__ __ AJW -:- Brian, let's get serious for a moment... -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:26:25 (GMT)

__ __ __ Brian Smith -:- I get mine at Bi-Mart, I paid 4 bucks for the -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:35:04 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- An invitation to Sazyou. -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 11:36:19 (GMT)

__ Hal -:- 28 years later- I'm free -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 11:07:15 (GMT)

__ janet -:- 28 years later--me too -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 08:25:10 (GMT)

__ __ AJW -:- janet, we should... -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 11:50:22 (GMT)

__ __ Marianne -:- Well sazyou.... -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 10:23:55 (GMT)

__ JohnT -:- OK -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 07:43:05 (GMT)

__ Abi -:- SF -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 07:15:41 (GMT)

__ Hal -:- My , my , aren't we smug . nt -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 07:01:11 (GMT)

__ Abi -:- 28 years later -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 06:54:12 (GMT)

__ salam -:- gaga agagag -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 06:39:08 (GMT)

__ __ DeProGram Anand Ji -:- Live and Let Live -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 08:31:20 (GMT)

__ __ Aussi Ji -:- Go for the jugular salam -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 06:43:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ salam -:- Can not do that -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 06:49:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ AJW -:- salam -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:02:33 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ salam -:- That's what you get for selling old cars -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 14:09:36 (GMT)

Connie -:- From the mouth of my son -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 03:08:50 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- From the mouth of my son -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:13:53 (GMT)

__ __ Babs -:- Oft comes oatmeal -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 05:29:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ Kelly -:- Seig Heil....Ki Jai! -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 12:59:36 (GMT)

__ Pat Conlon -:- Out of the mouths of babes -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 08:40:15 (GMT)

__ salam -:- From the mouth of my son -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 06:44:03 (GMT)

Postie -:- Maharaji has demanded an invitation to speak -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 03:04:33 (GMT)

__ gErRy -:- ahmahchizit? nt -:- Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 19:04:21 (GMT)

__ __ sUcH -:- It costs no sense!But you got Visa + smartcard?(nt -:- Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 20:57:10 (GMT)

__ Patrick (formerly Anon) -:- Maharaji has demanded an invitation to speak -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 03:15:49 (GMT)

__ __ Brian Smith -:- Maharaji has demanded an invitation to speak -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 07:20:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Maharaji has demanded an invitation to speak -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 09:00:25 (GMT)

Abi -:- Denver Unity School -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 02:16:07 (GMT)

__ Joe -:- Denver Unity School -:- Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 18:01:14 (GMT)

__ AJW -:- Denver Unity School -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 13:37:56 (GMT)

__ __ Postie -:- Denver Unity School info from DT -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 16:45:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ AJW -:- Sharon Keller and Rudolph Steiner -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 18:40:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Was Steiner a Nazi sympathiser ? -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 21:18:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Postie -:- Anth - I also found a publication called . . . -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 19:44:45 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- HEY!!!!! ISN'T THAT CENSORSHIP OR SOMETHING?? -:- Tues, Mar 06, 2001 at 04:44:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Postie, name your price.... -:- Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 10:37:11 (GMT)

__ __ Abi -:- Denver Unity School -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 16:39:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ janet -:- tristan---bishop? son of annie bishop? -:- Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 05:13:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Abi -:- tristan---bishop? son of annie bishop? -:- Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 14:22:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ D.U.S. -:- tristan---bishop?YES, he lives in SF,I believe,and -:- Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 06:03:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ janet -:- tristan---bishop?YES, he lives . I'm glad to hear -:- Tues, Mar 06, 2001 at 09:44:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- thanks -:- Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 16:35:03 (GMT)

__ Postie -:- I've got old DT w/ Denver Unity School article -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 03:35:30 (GMT)

__ __ Abi -:- I've got old DT w/ Denver Unity School article -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 06:41:51 (GMT)

__ D.U.S. -:- Abi-do you have e-mail address for info? nt -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 03:14:06 (GMT)

__ __ Abi -:- yes -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 06:48:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ janet -:- the teachers had to go to spring valley ny -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 08:37:39 (GMT)

Pauline Premie -:- The Gift of Gratitude -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 00:26:29 (GMT)

__ moldy warp -:- The sauce of creation -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 01:12:00 (GMT)

__ __ Steve Quint -:- Rock Me And Roll Me And Say It's Alright -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 02:12:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ moldy warp -:- Rock Me And Roll Me And Say It's Alright -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 23:27:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ la-ex -:- True. He rocked us,rolled us,now says its allright -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 03:08:20 (GMT)

Susan -:- Read Michael Dettmers post below -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 21:09:20 (GMT)

__ Michael Dettmers -:- Some Answers -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 21:31:15 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- So it WAS your fault after all, MR. Dettmers!! -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 22:04:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ gErRy -:- Sezyou is probably Keith nt -:- Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 04:11:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ Postie -:- Some answers indeed. Wow. -:- Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 00:48:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Susan -:- I echo that postie -:- Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 02:44:48 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- sorry for all the errors/typos (nt) -:- Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 02:48:32 (GMT)

__ la-ex -:- Michael:Can you talk more?If so, I have ?'s... -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 23:44:13 (GMT)

__ __ Michael Dettmers -:- Michael:Can you talk more?If so, I have ?'s... -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 00:48:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jerry -:- I've got a question -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 03:18:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Here's a question .. -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 03:30:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ moldy warp -:- To Michael:Can you talk more?If so, I have ?'s... -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 00:58:14 (GMT)

__ Pauline Premie -:- What Maharaji has to put up with is criminal -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 21:49:05 (GMT)

__ Susan -:- for a good laugh or cry depending on your mood -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 21:33:00 (GMT)

__ __ Jerry -:- for a good laugh or cry depending on your mood -:- Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 20:51:14 (GMT)

__ __ Helen -:- The Sopranos -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 22:08:38 (GMT)

__ __ __ Joe -:- Beyond Brilliant -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 23:22:05 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Helen -:- Beyond Brilliant -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 01:54:13 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Postie -:- Another Soprano addict -:- Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 03:18:15 (GMT)

__ Disculta -:- Marrying a devotee -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 21:16:46 (GMT)

__ __ Marianne -:- Dr. Casserola -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 21:28:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ Dr. Kasserola -:- You are wrong -:- Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 23:04:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ such -:- or is it Dr. Casserole? (like macaroni w cheese)nt -:- Tues, Mar 06, 2001 at 01:33:33 (GMT)

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 07:11:33 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: Everyone Subject: More updates on IRCC Message:

Ivory's Rock Cult Center - this info is to complete the last one that I posted re IRCC credit check. See if you can spot something interesting. This LAVAR character is interesting, has few companies. IRCC_More_data

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 06:31:34 (GMT) From: zippy Email: None To: salam Subject: More updates on IRCC Message:

good work salam.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 03:31:03 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: salam Subject: Theory about the plane Message:

I have a theory about Rawat's latest plane, apparently a Gulfstream V. Rawat likes to have his toys in other people's names, like 'Jeeps Nominees'. Maybe Gulfstream is acting as the trustee for the plane. Just a guess, I could very well be wrong. Here's a record on a G-V registered at around the right time: N-number : N593GA Aircraft Serial Number : 593 Aircraft Manufacturer : GULFSTREAM AEROSPACE Model : G-V Aircraft Year : Owner Name : GULFSTREAM AEROSPACE CORP TRUSTEE Owner Address : 500 GULFSTREAM RD SAVANNAH, GA, 31407-9643 Registration Date : 25-Jul-2000 Airworthiness Certificate Type : Not Specified

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 03:44:48 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: all Subject: on second thought Message:

I hadn't read the following regarding Rawat's Gulfstream V, which is from this site: 'What we already know is that it's been purchased in the fall of the year 2000. It's a second hand aircraft, and it's previous owner was the late king Hussein of Jordan. It's about $40 million worth.' There is a publication which has information of aircraft sales. I don't remember right now what it is called, but I can find out. Maybe there is a record in this publication about the sale. If so, it would give the registration number (N number).

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 19:23:28 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: all Subject: Biz Jet Update Message:

I believe that 'Biz jet Update' is the name of the publication that lists aircraft sales. It's published either quarterly or monthly and costs a little money. It might cost about $50 to buy the issues for the latter half of 2000. There's a web site on this, but I don't remember the URL.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 14:08:44 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: G Subject: Is this the man we are looking for Message:

Name : RAWAT, AMAR Pilot's Address : 31334 ANACAPA VIEW DR MALIBU, CA, 90265-2673 FAA Region : Western/Pacific Date of Medical : Sep, 1999 Class of Medical : 3 Expiration : Sep, 2002 Pilot Certificates : Student Pilot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Name : RAWAT, PREM PAL SINGH Pilot's Address : 31334 ANACAPA VIEW DR MALIBU, CA, 90265-2673 FAA Region : Western/Pacific Date of Medical : Jan, 2001 Class of Medical : 1 Expiration : Jul, 2001 Pilot Certificates : Airline Transport Pilot Airplane Multiengine Land Rotorcraft Helicopter (Commercial Pilot) Instrument Helicopter (Commercial Pilot) Glider (Commercial Pilot)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 17:48:18 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: all Subject: Indeed, and like father like son Message:

In case anyone doesn't know: Prem Pal Singh Rawat is 'Maharaji' (aka 'Maharaj Ji', 'Guru Maharaj Ji', 'Balyogeshwar', 'Sant Ji', etc.) Amar Rawat is his youngest child and one of his sons. 31334 Anacapa View Dr is his 20+ million mansion in Malibu.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 04:15:18 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: all Subject: aircraft search result Message:

Below is the result of searching on aircraft code = 3980116 (Gulfstream V) registered in 2000. I used the web search facility at this URL: http://www1.drive.net/evird.acgi$pass*11756315!_h-www.landings.com/_landings/pages/search.html N-number Database Search Result All entries share these common characteristics except where stated otherwise: Aircraft Manufacturer: GULFSTREAM AEROSPACE Model: G-V Engine Manufacturer: BMW ROLLS Model: BR 700 SERIES Airworthiness Certificate Type: Standard Approved Operations: Transport ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N1GN Aircraft Serial Number : 578 Aircraft Year: 1999 Owner Name : NORMAN AIRCRAFT LEASING INC Owner Address: C O GREAT WHITE SHARK ENTERPRISES BLDG S-1500 PBIA WEST PALM BEACH, FL, 33406 Registration Date : 02-Feb-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N1KE Aircraft Serial Number : 574 Aircraft Year: 1999 Owner Name : HUM-AIR LLC Owner Address: 1 BOWERMAN DR BEAVERTON, OR, 97005-6453 Registration Date : 09-Feb-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N1SF Aircraft Serial Number : 598 Aircraft Year: 2000 Owner Name : FRIEDKIN COMPANIES INC Owner Address: 7701 WILSHIRE PLACE DR HOUSTON, TX, 77040-5346 Registration Date : 20-Jun-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N100GV Aircraft Serial Number : 600 Aircraft Year: 2000 Owner Name : GFSC AIRCRAFT ACQUISITION FINANCING CORP Owner Address: 500 GULFSTREAM RD SAVANNAH, GA, 31407-9643 Registration Date : 21-Nov-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N15UC Aircraft Serial Number : 589 Aircraft Year: 1999 Owner Name : UNITED CO Owner Address: PO BOX 1280 BRISTOL, VA, 24203-1280 Registration Date : 03-Jul-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N1540 Aircraft Serial Number : 580 Aircraft Year: 1999 Owner Name : COX AVIATION INC Owner Address: 140 KAULELE PL HONOLULU, HI, 96819-1842 Registration Date : 18-Oct-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N158AF Aircraft Serial Number : 506 Aircraft Year: 1996 Owner Name : FIRST SECURITY BANK NA TRUSTEE Owner Address: 79 S MAIN ST SALT LAKE CITY, UT, 84111-1901 Registration Date : 14-Aug-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N16NK Aircraft Serial Number : 585 Aircraft Year: 1999 Owner Name : SUNTRUST BANK Owner Address: 777 BRICKELL AVE MIAMI, FL, 33131-2809 Registration Date : 24-Jan-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N20H Aircraft Serial Number : 522 Engine Manufacturer : AMA/EXPR Model: UNKNOWN ENG Aircraft Year: 1997 Owner Name : HBI LEASING LLC Owner Address: ATTN: GERALD D DEENEY 3415 UNIVERSITY AVENUE ST PAUL, MN, 55114 Registration Date : 04-Feb-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N22 Aircraft Serial Number : 501 Aircraft Year: 1995 Owner Name : GULFSTREAM AEROSPACE CORP Owner Address: 500 GULFSTREAM RD SAVANNAH, GA, 31407-9643 Registration Date : 16-Oct-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N271JG Aircraft Serial Number : 582 Aircraft Year: 1999 Owner Name : FIRST SECURITY BANK NA TRUSTEE Owner Address: 79 S MAIN ST SALT LAKE CITY, UT, 84111-1901 Registration Date : 27-Jun-2000 Airworthiness Certificate Type : Experimental Approved Operations : To show compliance with FAR ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N300K Aircraft Serial Number : 587 Aircraft Year: 1999 Owner Name : FIRST SECURITY BANK NA TRUSTEE Owner Address: 79 S MAIN ST SALT LAKE CITY, UT, 84111-1901 Registration Date : 21-Jun-2000 Airworthiness Certificate Type : Experimental Approved Operations : To show compliance with FAR ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N301K Aircraft Serial Number : 591 Aircraft Year: 1999 Owner Name : FIRST SECURITY BANK NA TRUSTEE Owner Address: 79 S MAIN ST SALT LAKE CITY, UT, 84111-1901 Registration Date : 28-Aug-2000 Approved Operations : Not Specified ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N302K Aircraft Serial Number : 597 Aircraft Year: 2000 Owner Name : FIRST SECURITY BANK NA TRUSTEE Owner Address: 79 S MAIN ST SALT LAKE CITY, UT, 84111-1901 Registration Date : 08-Nov-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N303K Aircraft Serial Number : 607 Aircraft Year: 2000 Owner Name : FIRST SECURITY BANK NA TRUSTEE Owner Address: 79 S MAIN ST SALT LAKE CITY, UT, 84111-1901 Registration Date : 14-Dec-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N33M Aircraft Serial Number : 594 Aircraft Year: 2000 Owner Name : MINNESOTA MINING AND MANUFACTURING CO Owner Address: 690 BAYFIELD ST SAINT PAUL, MN, 55107-1002 Registration Date : 29-Sep-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N379P Aircraft Serial Number : 581 Aircraft Year: 1999 Owner Name : PREMIERE EXECUTIVE TRANSPORT SERVICES INC Owner Address: 339 WASHINGTON ST STE 202 DEDHAM, MA, 02026-1815 Registration Date : 08-Feb-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N410M Aircraft Serial Number : 575 Aircraft Year: 1999 Owner Name : BRISTOL-MYERS SQUIBB CO Owner Address: 345 PARK AVE NEW YORK, NY, 10154-0004 Registration Date : 07-Jan-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N451CS Aircraft Serial Number : 570 Aircraft Year: 1999 Owner Name : 5161 CORP Owner Address: C/O AVJET CORPORATION 4301 EMPIRE AVE BURBANK, CA, 91505 Registration Date : 03-Jan-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N472GA Aircraft Serial Number : 572 Aircraft Year: 1999 Owner Name : BOWMAN AVIATION LLC Owner Address: C/O GLOBAL AVIATION INC 2250 NE 25TH AVE HILLSBORO, OR, 97124-5960 Registration Date : 13-Sep-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N502QS Aircraft Serial Number : 601 Aircraft Year: Owner Name : EJI SALES INC Owner Address: TWO LEADERSHIP SQUARE FL 10 OKLA CITY, OK, 73102 Registration Date : 27-Dec-2000 Airworthiness Certificate Type : Not Specified ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N54PR Aircraft Serial Number : 564 Aircraft Year: 1999 Owner Name : WILMINGTON TRUST CO TRUSTEE Owner Address: ATTN CORP TRUST ADMIN/ACCT#523710 1100 N MARKET ST WILMINGTON, DE, 19890 Registration Date : 21-Aug-2000 Airworthiness Certificate Type : Experimental Approved Operations : Research and Development ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N554GA Aircraft Serial Number : 605 Engine Manufacturer : AMA/EXPR Model: UNKNOWN ENG Aircraft Year: 2000 Owner Name : FIRST SECURITY BANK NA TRUSTEE Owner Address: 79 S MAIN ST SALT LAKE CITY, UT, 84111-1901 Registration Date : 06-Sep-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N555GV Aircraft Serial Number : 518 Aircraft Year: 1997 Owner Name : GULFSTREAM AEROSPACE CORP Owner Address: 500 GULFSTREAM RD SAVANNAH, GA, 31407-9643 Registration Date : 07-Jan-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N558GA Aircraft Serial Number : 606 Engine Manufacturer : AMA/EXPR Model: UNKNOWN ENG Aircraft Year: 2000 Owner Name : FLEET NATIONAL BANK Owner Address: C/O AIR SIMON INC 114 W WASHINGTON ST STE 1500 INDIANAPOLIS, IN, 46204 Registration Date : 04-Aug-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N588GA Aircraft Serial Number : 588 Aircraft Year: 1999 Owner Name : GULFSTREAM GATX LEASING CO LLC Owner Address: C/O GATX CAPITAL CORP 4 EMBARCADERO CTR STE 2200 SAN FRANCISCO, CA, 94111 Registration Date : 23-Jun-2000 Airworthiness Certificate Type : Experimental Approved Operations : To show compliance with FAR ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N593GA Aircraft Serial Number : 593 Aircraft Year: Owner Name : GULFSTREAM AEROSPACE CORP TRUSTEE Owner Address: 500 GULFSTREAM RD SAVANNAH, GA, 31407-9643 Registration Date : 25-Jul-2000 Airworthiness Certificate Type : Not Specified ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N602GV Aircraft Serial Number : 602 Engine Manufacturer : AMA/EXPR Model: UNKNOWN ENG Aircraft Year: 2000 Owner Name : 200 PS AIRCRAFT HOLDINGS INC Owner Address: 5901 S CENTRAL AVE CHICAGO, IL, 60638-3746 Registration Date : 04-Dec-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N675RW Aircraft Serial Number : 526 Aircraft Year: 1997 Owner Name : COCA COLA CO Owner Address: 1 COCA COLA PLZ NW ATLANTA, GA, 30313-2420 Registration Date : 08-Jun-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N718MC Aircraft Serial Number : 549 Aircraft Year: 1998 Owner Name : RADICAL VENTURES LLC Owner Address: 4141 N MEMORIAL DR FL 2 TULSA, OK, 74115-1400 Registration Date : 21-Jan-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N790MC Aircraft Serial Number : 523 Engine Manufacturer : AMA/EXPR Model: UNKNOWN ENG Aircraft Year: 1997 Owner Name : MCLEODUSA INTEGRATED BUSINESS SYSTEMS INC Owner Address: 6400 C ST SW CEDAR RAPIDS, IA, 52404-7463 Registration Date : 25-Feb-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N84GV Aircraft Serial Number : 584 Aircraft Year: 1999 Owner Name : FLEET NATIONAL BANK Owner Address: C/O ELECTRONIC DATA SYSTEMS CORP 9215 WEISS ST HGR E DALLAS, TX, 75235 Registration Date : 01-May-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N85V Aircraft Serial Number : 595 Aircraft Year: 2000 Owner Name : CB AIRCO LLC Owner Address: 161951 JFK BLVD HOUSTON, TX, 77032 Registration Date : 04-Oct-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N9SC Aircraft Serial Number : 552 Aircraft Year: 1998 Owner Name : SCI TEXAS FUNERAL SERVICES INC Owner Address: 1929 ALLEN PARKWAY HOUSTON, TX, 77019 Registration Date : 25-Oct-2000 ----------------------------------------------------------- N-number : N95AE Aircraft Serial Number : 562 Aircraft Year: 1998 Owner Name : NATIONAL EXPRESS CO INC Owner Address: AMEX TOWER WORLD FINANCIAL CENTER NEW YORK, NY, 10285 Registration Date : 04-May-2000 Returned 35 entries out of 35 total matches

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 19:49:30 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: all Subject: Sale of Gulfstream IV Message:

The following info provides evidence that the Gulfstream IV was sold. The G-IV was registered under a new owner's name on October 2, 2000. I'm basing the match on serial number and year. Old info on the G-IV (before the sale): N-Number (civil registration number): N41PR Serial number: 1226 Aircraft: . manufacturer (make): Gulfstream Aerospace . model: G-IV SP . type: Fixed-wing multi-engine Land Seats: 22 (allows for 3 crew and 19 passengers) Year manufactured: 1993 Engines: 2 Engine: . type: turbojet . manufacturer: Rolls-Royce . model: TAY 611-8 . thrust: 12,450 lb. Weight: 28,000 lb. Airworthiness class): Standard Approved operations: Transport Regigtration type: Corporation Registrant: Prime Resources LLC 510 West 4th Street Carson City, NV 89702 US FAA region: Western-Pacific Registration date: 01-July-1994 Last activity (action) date: 18-June-1997 New info on the G-IV: N-number : N50MG Aircraft Serial Number : 1226 Aircraft Manufacturer : GULFSTREAM AEROSPACE Model : G-IV Engine Manufacturer : ROLL-ROYCE Model : TAY 611-8 Aircraft Year : 1993 Owner Name : GENERAL ELECTRIC CREDIT CORP OF TENNESSEE Owner Address : 44 OLD RIDGEBURY RD DANBURY, CT, 06810-5107 Registration Date : 02-Oct-2000 Airworthiness Certificate Type : Standard Approved Operations : Transport

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 18:54:31 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: all Subject: some company info Message:

Here's some info on some of the companies listed in the results: CB Airco LLC: From the state of Texas: Company Information CB AIRCO L L C 1001 LOUISIANA ST HOUSTON, TX 77002-5089 Status IN GOOD STANDING NOT FOR DISSOLUTION OR WITHDRAWAL THROUGH MARCH 7, 2002 Registered Agent CT CORPORATION SYSTEM 1021 MAIN ST., STE. 1150 HOUSTON, TX 77002 Registered Agent Resignation Date State of Incorporation DE File Number 0707962923 Charter/COA Date December 8, 2000 Charter/COA Type COA Taxpayer Number 32003014126 - no hits from AltaVista -------------------------------------------- EJI Sales - no hits from AltaVista -------------------------------------------- Bowman Aviation LLC: no hit from state of Oregon business search, there is a Bowman Associates LLC: Business Entity Data Registry Nbr 765330-83 Entity Type DLLC Entity Status ACT Jurisdiction OR Registry Date 07-25-2000 Entity Name BOMAN ASSOCIATES LLC FedID 00-0000000 Associated Names Type AGT REGISTERED AGENT Start Date 07-25-2000 Resign Date Name JILL R FETHERSTONHAUGH Fax Addr 1 399 E 10TH AVE #101 Addr 2 CSZ EUGENE OR 97401 Country UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Name History Business Entity Name, Name Type, Name Status, Start Date BOMAN ASSOCIATES LLC, EN, CUR, 07-25-2000 Summary History Image Date Action Transaction Date Effective Date Status 07-25-2000 NEW FILING 07-25-2000 FI -------------------------------------- c/o Global Aviation: from state of Oregon business search http://sos-venus.sos.state.or.us:8080/beri_prod/pkg_web_name_srch_inq.show_detail?p_be_rsn=99315 Business Entity Data Registry Nbr 596657-87 Entity Type DBC Entity Status ACT Jurisdiction OR Registry Date 09-26-1997 Entity Name GLOBAL AVIATION, INC. FedID 93-1229441 Associated Names Type PPB PRINCIPAL PLACE OF BUSINESS Addr 2250 NE 25TH AVE CSZ HILLSBORO OR 97124 0000 Country UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Type AGT REGISTERED AGENT Start Date 09-26-1997 Name JOSEPH J HANNA JR Addr 1300 SW 6TH AVE STE 300 CSZ PORTLAND OR 97201 Country UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Type MAL MAILING ADDRESS Addr 2250 NE 25TH AVE CSZ HILLSBORO OR 97124 Country UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Type PRE PRESIDENT Name FLO NEWTON Addr 2250 NE 25TH AVE CSZ HILLSBORO OR 97124 Country UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Type SEC SECRETARY Start Date Resign Date Name FLO NEWTON Addr 2250 NE 25TH AVE CSZ HILLSBORO OR 97124 Country UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Name History Business Entity Name Name Type Name Status Start Date End Date GLOBAL AVIATION, INC. EN CUR 09-26-1997 Summary History Image Date Action Transaction Date Status 09-27-2000 STRAIGHT RENEWAL 09-27-2000 FI 10-28-1999 CHANGED RENEWAL 10-28-1999 FI 10-21-1999 STRAIGHT RENEWAL 10-18-1999 FI 10-01-1999 NOTICE 10-04-1999 SYS 02-09-1999 REINSTATEMENT 02-09-1999 FI 12-24-1998 INVOL DISSOLUTION 12-18-1998 SYS 10-02-1998 NOTICE 10-05-1998 SYS 09-26-1997 NEW FILING 09-26-1997 FI

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 19:23:57 (GMT) From: Postie Email: None To: G Subject: Don't M's flying toys have an HD suffix? Message:

One of the earlier aircraft (707?) had an N number something like N707HD or N41HD (it's not 41, I checked). HD stands for Hans Dout (pronounced doot) which holds some significance for The Captain formerly known as The Client, The Speaker, Him, Mraji, Maharaji, Maharaj Ji, Guru Maharaji, Balyogeshwar. Cynthia would surely know about the N number for the 707 Hans Doubt.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 20:31:09 (GMT) From: Postie Email: None To: G Subject: Never mind on HD - old info Message:

Here's a photo of the older G-IV - paint job looks older than the one on EPO. http://www.angelfire.com/biz6/gulfstream/gulfn41pr.html

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 04:21:35 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: all Subject: ^^^^^^^ SERVICE OPPORTUNITY ^^^^^^^^ Message:

Maybe someone here can use the info in the above post 'aircraft search results' to track down Rawat's plane. These are the G-Vs registered in the US in 2000, according to a search facility on the web that goes against a copy of the FAA registration database. There are only 35 planes in the results. Many can be eliminated due to company name (e.g. Coca Cola). Of course his plane may not be listed here for some unknown reason.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 09:23:57 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: G Subject: One of those corp records should show some PAM Message:

somewhere .... This is important info IMO.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 06:04:02 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: G Subject: G Message:

Do you know how many people are watching you?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 17:50:13 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: salam Subject: No, what do you mean? Message:

I don't know what you mean.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 13:54:27 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: salam Subject: a clue Message:

captin rawat would not have sold his old jet before he had acquired the new one, which means that after his jet was sold, a new entry in the aviation data base with a date close to the selling of the old jet must occur, we can therefore eliminate any entry before the selling date, now all you need is to figure out the selling day. Did you know that Hawcker Pcific Autralia pty Ltd serviced his craft last time he was here in 1997?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 19:59:25 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: salam Subject: new entry dated October 2, 2000 Message:

See above. I generally agree, but he could have bought the new plane a little after the sale, not much later though. I think it would have been in the latter half of 2000.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 01:18:41 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: G Subject: Here is a list of all G-V registered 160 of them Message:

http://www.angelfire.com/biz6/gulfstream/gulfdat5.html rawat's plane has to be among them.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 03:42:53 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: salam Subject: his is leased -GV still owns it in savannah Message:

i read the whole list. we talked about this here before. it makes more sense for him to lease it so he can trade up rather than have all the headaches that come with ownership. with leasing, you just hand it back to the company when it needs fixing and they hand you another one in perfect condition, good to go, while they take the dud back inside and fix it for the next person.so 'his' would be one of the ones still listed as owned by gulfstream themselves, with their original n numbers on it. he could fly any of them at a given time, depending on which one gulf sent him under his leasing agreement. no single one is 'his'

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 06:39:26 (GMT) From: Aussi Ji Email: None To: Everyone Subject: It's my birthday. Message:

G,day all, Well it's that time of the year again.I like to reflect a bit on my birthday.It has been a big year for me.I can't belive I have left the fold after 26 years of a lot of time spent or misspent,depending on one's point of view. I used to pay more attention to my knowledge birthday in the past.Now that will be a very reflective day as well,but not for the same reasons as before my exing. I am realising lots of things since I left,and I truly feel blessed that I have been freed from the shackles of imprisonment.I have been feeling lots of periods of intense happiness for no apparent reason at all.This has got to be a good sign. This mest be happiness.I just hope it keeps up. So thanks to you guys again for all your help. Cheers Aussi Ji(The happy little vegemite from downunder)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:56:28 (GMT) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: Aussi Ji Subject: It's my birthday. Happy Birthday Aussi Ji Message:

may you have much good fortune in the coming year and enjoy yourself today with a big celebration. Don't let the hair of the dog bite you, stay three quarters pissed and a quarterflash.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 20:14:52 (GMT) From: Aussi Ji Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: Thanks Brian.I don't (hiccup)dddrink much (hiccup) Message:

nt

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 11:04:58 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Aussi Ji Subject: An AUSpicious day. Message:

Happy Birthday Aussie Ji, Today is also the day the Aboriginal Art Musuem is being opened in Utrecht. I think there must be a cosmic connection going on somewhere. You're not an aboriginal artist too are you? Anyway, have a good one. Anth the European sand painting.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:05:51 (GMT) From: Aussi Ji Email: None To: AJW Subject: An AUSpicious day. Message:

Your a clever boy Anth.I would never have thought of AUSpicious in a month of Sundays.No,I am not an aboriginal painter. Cheers mate(Aussi vegemite ji)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 08:42:38 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Aussi Ji Subject: Happy birthday, Aussie Ji Message:

This place is starting to look like a bloody aquarium what with all you fishes - Barry, Postie and now you.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:14:08 (GMT) From: Aussi Ji Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: Happy birthday, Aussie Ji Message:

G,day Pat, In my early years of following the spiritual path it was said that pisceans' were on the last rung of evolution and that pisceans' possessed the traits of all the other star signs put together.My spiritual ego used to love this concept.Now in my grandpa years it all sounds like a load of bullshit. Cheers Pat. PS I will try to curb the emmision of methane gas at my candle blowing out ceremony,later on tonight.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 07:08:18 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Aussi Ji Subject: It's my birthday. Message:

Dear AJ, I love birthdays and one of my house mates' birthday's is also March 3rd! :) I he is a great guy and you seem to both have a similar good nature. I don't know you that well but that one point seems to come through. So I've added you to my birthday book and if we're both around next year and I remember to look :) I'll wish you a happy birthday for a second time because this is the first... Happy Birthday! :) I am starting to wish people I've met here, some in person others not, happy birthday for the 3rd year! I love that! Love, Robyn

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:24:39 (GMT) From: Aussi Ji Email: None To: Robyn Subject: It's my birthday. Message:

G,day Robyn, Thank you,you gorgeous thing Robyn.I will look out for your birthday as well. Nighy nite now, Aussi Ji. PS I used to work with a guy with whom I did not click with at all.If he would walk into the room I was in,I used to walk out,and vise versa.There was no amger or anything,it was one of those chemical things.Then we both found out we were both born on march 3rd and from that day on we hit it off.Funny,isn't it?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 14:08:25 (GMT) From: Robyn Email: None To: Aussi Ji Subject: It's my birthday. Message:

Dear AJ, Ha!! That is funny! I seem to immediately like people who have the same or in and around my birthday, June 2. Just found out someone where I work, that everyone else found stand offish but I really liked was born on June 4 as was one of our very own here. :) You'll have to wait to see who. :) Anyway but the 2 people I've known that were born on my b-day and also the same year were both friends of mine but were totally opposite from me, melancoly, loners. They didn't know each other but they were almost exactly alike! Interesting but inconclusive! :) Love, Robyn

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 07:16:09 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: Robyn Subject: Hello birthday lady Message:

what u doing up so late ha? Write. salam

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 10:05:48 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Aussi Ji Subject: Happy Birthday Message:

Happy Birthday Aussi Ji. Enjoy your new found freedom this day. Have fun! Eat cake! Take good care of yourself. Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:28:52 (GMT) From: Aussi Ji Email: None To: Marianne Subject: Happy Birthday Message:

G,day marianne, Thank you kindly Marianne. Cheers Aussi Ji(Carot cake with vegemite icing coming up)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 06:46:37 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: Aussi Ji Subject: Happy birthday boofhead. Message:

any gossip from up there. You know where to find me. Looking for someone living in Ipswich, ya no any?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:44:40 (GMT) From: Aussi Ji Email: None To: salam Subject: No worries Salam you gallah Message:

G,day me old matey, Hot off the press,some juicy gossip mate.To add salt to the wounds of the premies who are still bleeding from the shock $800 rego and the high accommodation prices is the news that each community is now being asked for a further contribution to support the new knowledge team who are coming from the states to give knowledge to the aspirants here in Australia. The Australian contribution is $18,000 which is for the whole kit and kaboodle.I think it is for Sydney,brisbane and Melbourne.This will be the start of the new Auto knowledge session here in Australia.I think this info is fairly accurate. Cheers Aussi Ji..PS I don,t know anyone in Ipswith who would welcome an ex premie,unfortunately.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 13:56:34 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: Aussi Ji Subject: New knowledge team Message:

sounds like a bunch of crack pots, any idea who is coming? This is my chance to repent, go back to the bigggg bozzzom. $18,000 looks like a drop in the ocean, is that all what they are asking? I would have thought $1000 bucks from 18 people will sort it out, hell I can afford $10.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 20:26:48 (GMT) From: Aussi Ji Email: None To: salam Subject: New knowledge team Message:

G,day Salam, Apparently in the past anything special like this would've been funded by the 'rich premies'but not anymore.The plebs are being asked to chip in.Yes,it does sound a small ammount of money for an Elan Vital event for sure. Elan Vital is saying that in the past events at Amaroo were also subsidised by the rich premies and now the plebs are going to have to pay the big bucks.They had the audacity to say that it is going to cost $800 JUST TO COVER COSTS.Can you believe the bullshit is mutating and the premies are falling for it.However not all is good for the master as a lot of dihards are questioning the whole money thing for Amaroo.I'll keep you posted Salam. Cheers Aj

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 10:44:49 (GMT) From: King Munmut Email: None To: salam Subject: Meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars :) Message:

Hi Aussie Ji, Yeah, good to here ya gett'n back to some down to earth liv'n. No...I don't eat meat pies. Woudn't trust what they put in them things :) Yes. It's a great releaf to see the crazy Indian F**K'n head bowing shit for what it is. 'JUST THAT'...SOME CRAZY F**K'N INDIAN TRIP' YES....TRIP TRIP TRIP....!!!!! Glad ya got ya life back........cheers.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:50:36 (GMT) From: Aussi Ji Email: None To: King Munmut Subject: And sheilas in bikinis and blowflies in ya eyes Message:

G,day King Munnut, Thank mate.You sound like a di dinky Aussie.Are you? Cheers Aussi Ji(The holden must have a 308 v8 in it )

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 06:26:43 (GMT) From: sonofa Email: None To: jim and cohorts Subject: i dont get it Message:

The cultish, brainwashed, deprived image of premies that you so vividly depict is flawed, to say the least.My mother and father are both premies, and they have provided me with the kind of balanced, loving upbringing that i'm sure you were denied, which was probably one the factors that drove you to become the spiteful, maniacal ne'er-do-wells that you are today. I would also point out the fact that you dedicate more time and energy to hateful slanders of maharaji than his students do to promoting his cause.I truly pity you. It must be horrible to have such a loyal devotion to hate.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 12:39:00 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: sonofa Subject: certainly, we are the scum of this world Message:

and i don't know about the rest, but i love it. Am a hatefull, spitfull, misrable bastard with nothing to do than bitch about a peacefull love giving fat ass guru that has been having a free ride for too long, and am about to flip over, so help me Jesus, for Snofa is here to correct me and put me on the straight and narrow, amien.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 19:01:19 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: salam Subject: salam, we are not the scum of the world and.... Message:

I suspect this person is sincere (hopefully). Be nice you whacko salami! Love to you, Cynthia

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 02:47:15 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: Cynthia Subject: what's in for me? Message:

Nice? what nice, am already being nice, how nicer do want me to get ha? Snofa is a 16 year old babie. Needs to be shown the door before her little head gets mangled.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 01:03:52 (GMT) From: Sonofa Email: None To: sonofa Subject: I know many premies to be... Message:

... fine, loving people. I used to believe that they were often better than other people, but over the years, my experience has been, that they are really like a cross-section of the general population. Some are very nice, some are nasty, and many others fall somewhere in between. I wouldn't doubt that your parents are on the nice side of that spectrum. Are you yourself a premie? You didn't say. I don't know if you have read much of the information on this website. It's a lot to take in, it can be a bit overwhelming. It's true that a lot of it is negative, but that is because it is meant to counter a lot of there information from powerful media sources like Elan Vital and Visions International. Visitors are encouraged to use the new information here on this website, compair it with information from other sources, and draw their own conclusions as to what is really true. I believe that if you do read much of the information on the rest of this website, the forum here will be easier to understand and follow, too. Also, the Journey's section gives a lot of background information on many of the people who post here. It's sometimes easier to understand what they say if you are familiar with their experiences. Being in a cult is not always obvious, or even necessarily always unpleasant. If it were all bad, people wouldn't stick with it for so long. Welcome to Formum V. Best regards, Charles S.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 01:09:51 (GMT) From: Charles S. Email: None To: Sonofa Subject: FA: I typed 'Sonafa' where MY name should be... Message:

in the post above titled 'I know many premies to be...' Could you correct it please? Thank you, Charles S.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 23:56:47 (GMT) From: moldy warp Email: None To: sonofa Subject: to sonofa read below posts Message:

they may enlighten you. I was a premie when my kids were small - I think I brought them up well, but not cos I was a premie but inspite of it. After all the sort of person who becomes a premie may also be a sensitive, inquiring, intelligent person who would be a good parent.(not that I am blowing my own trumpet of course!)If any of us were denied a 'balanced loving upbringing' then that denial served to make us more vulnerable to joining a cult (there are many references to this phenomemon on this site). This word you use - students' - is a misnomer for 'devotee' and as a devotee we were supposed to dedicate our entire lives to Maharaji lock stock and barrel. We weren't supposed to get married, kids were a distraction, we were encouraged -brainwashed?- into thinking the love we had for our kids was 'our minds' (ie bad) and only love for the Lord was real.Luckily for you your parents managed to resist these commands and here you are, a happy chappy.(but this is not due to Maharaji). We are not spiteful. we are engaged in a battle for the survival of our autonomy , our individuality, amd our sanity.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 21:37:31 (GMT) From: Monmot Email: None To: sonofa Subject: One Quick Question Message:

Dear Sonofa(what?): You wouldn't happen to be, by chance, the offspring of Ms. Sazyou/Sezyou from the thread below this one, would you? Usually, the fruit doesn't fall far from the family tree, and there's a certain fatuous tone in both your and Sazyou/Sezyou's comments. Take care now.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 20:37:56 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: sonofa Subject: you haven't got it yet? Message:

If you've not got it yet, could it be because you've not been told what happened? And if your parents are still premies, it's unlikely (with all due respect) that they ever will tell you. But while you're here at ex-premie.org, why not take a look at the history lesson that's been denied you?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 18:27:10 (GMT) From: Cynthia Email: None To: sonofa Subject: i dont get it...Well I do... Message:

Dear sonofa, The reason you don't get it is because what your parents have been involved with for so many years is a cult. I doubt they would or could admit it, but it is so... That's not a simple thing to explain. Ex-Premies post here to express many things, among which, are those numerous difficulties in exiting Maharaji's cult. Your parents may have provided you with a ''well-balanced'' life. If so, then why the need to ''protect'' Maharaji? I wonder if they are willing and/or able to question Maharaji's life, his immense greed, his abuse of premies, and his revisionism of his name, organization, and how he conducts his life both publicly and privately. If you have not read the Ex-Premies website and the informative links, then reading the forum could easily be taken out of context. Yes, ex-premies post many negative things about Maharaji because our experiences when following him and when exiting his cult have been negative. This forum is open to discussion with you about your experiences being a child of premie parents. I hope if you respond you will be treated civilly, yet be warned...some ex-premies are angry about Maharaji's lies and betrayals... We are all human. We will never reach the perfection that Maharaji continuously promises, that, too, is a lie. Understand, Sonafa, Maharaji has harbored a pedophile. He was informed when Jagdeo was sexually abusing children in the 70's and 80's and did nothing. When an ex-premie recently communicated with him by letter, neither Maharaji nor Elan Vital did anything about it, other than deny as well as lie about it. There were/are many other abuses inflicted upon premies which have been documented here. First, understand that it's a personality cult being run by a megalomaniac. Then you may understand more. Sincerely, Cynthia

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 17:45:44 (GMT) From: toby Email: None To: sonofa Subject: i dont get it Message:

hi sonofa, I am from Germany, you know we have had the Hitlerjugend if you don't understand ask some elder person. Yeah they loved him, and there were taken care off until.... You think that your parents love is m.'s product? So it seems! Otherwise what has your parents care for you has to do with m? Learn thinking first! This might be some lack in your education, but you can still begin. Toby

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 11:11:04 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: sonofa Subject: you'll get it one day. Message:

Hey sonofa, Would you still defend Captain Rawat if you discovered he was a drunkard, he used his position to extract sexual favours from his devotess, his material desires were out of control, he'd been involved in a hit and run accident where someone was killed, then he fled the scene and left one of his mahatmas to take the blame? He'd protected and supported a known paedophile and allowed him to carry on his dirty business supported full time by the cult? Well sonofa, just say, hypothetically, all this was true, would you still defend and support the Captain? Would you sonofa? Anth the curious

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 07:07:24 (GMT) From: Abi Email: None To: sonofa Subject: i dont get it Message:

I'm glad that you feel as though you have a healthy and balanced life. Although your message seems slightly hysterical to me... You seem a bit angry 'sonofa'. I personally don't have a 'loyal devotion to hate'. I simply want to know why it is that the Mahatma who sexually abused me and many others has been protected by your parents Master.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 05:50:04 (GMT) From: Sazyou Email: None To: Everyone Subject: 28 years later Message:

Dear everyone here, First of all, I’m fortunate to have the most wonderful family. I’ve been married for eighteen years to a funny, creative, loving, brilliant man (who I met while living in the ashram, by the way). We have two smart, sweet, strong and beautiful teenage kids who actually – knock on wood – like and love us and enjoy our and each other’s company. Next, my husband and I have a great business; over the past eleven years we’ve built a consulting company (we now have three other consultants and two support people) that works with major corporations. We offer great work, our clients like and respect us, and we do very well financially. We also are blessed with a wonderfully supportive wider circle of friends and family, some of whom are students of Maharaji and some not. My husband and I are both close to our siblings and our moms (our dads died many years ago). We live in a big, comfortable house on a river, surrounded by woods, with two dogs, two cats and assorted wildlife. My husband gardens and makes custom music mixes. In my (not very) spare time, I connect with friends, travel with my family, dabble in architecture, read voraciously and write science fiction. Barring huge downturns in the economy, we hope to retire in twelve years or so, and devote our time to traveling (we’ve considered retiring to Wales), writing and helping support Maharaji’s work. (Which, from my point of view, consists of three things: letting people know that Knowledge exists; making it available to those who want to receive it; providing opportunities for those who practice Knowledge to focus on it in more depth). I enjoy practicing Knowledge, and I have tremendous affection and appreciation for Maharaji. Over the years I’ve experienced him as an inspiring and insightful teacher about life, a wonderful parent to his children (who are delightful), the hardest worker I know, and an amazing autodidact. So, explain to me again how I’m deluded and emotionally crippled and am part of a cult? Warmly, Sezyou

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 06, 2001 at 00:34:03 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: Geez -- Are you on the cover of People? Message:

Sazyou: I wanted to thank you for taking the time from your perfect and idyllic life to stoop to the level of communication with mere eathlings. It must be trying for you. Look, if you are as happy as you say you are, why are you tearing yourself away from perfection to talk about it? Good luck to you. There are just lots of people who have had a very different experience with Maharaji, knowledge, and his cult, including me. Joe

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 19:21:17 (GMT) From: Michael Dettmers Email: dettmers@gylanix.com To: Sazyou Subject: 28 years later Message:

Dear Sezyou, I have just now logged onto EPO and read your post. I have not read all of the replies to it so perhaps what I have to say has already been said. I am almost certain I know who you are and, if I am right, you know I have a great deal of love and respect for you. You certainly appear to be living an idyllic life and I am sincerely happy for you. Given what I know about you, I am confident that your life would be just as wonderful as it is without Maharaji, notwithstanding your love and appreciation for him. I say this because I know that you live your life in alignment with certain values and principles. Without getting too spiritual or philosophical, let’s just say that your love of, and virtuosity in, music has endowed you an innate as well as cultivated appreciation for harmony, beauty and love and they that manifest in all domains of your life. I suggest that long ago you identified Maharaji as the embodiment of those values as did I and, it appears that, since then, you have found no reason to think otherwise. At first, it was not easy for me to think otherwise as well, despite all of the evidence I knew to the contrary. Let me assure you, however, that all of the reports I have made on this site about Maharaji’s behavior are factual. Specifically, you say, “even Michael Dettmers, who initially 'revealed' that M was drinking heavily during the early 80s, has said M's not an alcoholic -- in fact, MD made it very clear that M never drank the night before he flew. Alcoholics are not able to control their drinking in that way. And I haven't heard anyone with information newer than 15 years old about M's drinking habits.” To be accurate, I said that I didn’t have any personal experience with alcoholics to be able to make a diagnosis about alcoholism. What I did was report Maharaji’s drinking behavior in some detail and many people on this Forum who did have experience with alcoholism, either personally or as the victims of an alcoholic’s abuse, explained why Maharaji drinking patterns and the behavior fit the classic description of an alcoholic. And, by the way, his heavy drinking did not begin in the early 80’s. I first witnessed it in 1975 and I was told by Bob Mishler and others that it had been going on for some time before then. Also, I did not say that Maharaji never drank the night before he flew. During the many years I was around him, he drank every night sometimes much heavier than others. On the night before he flew, he stopped at the prescribed number of hours required before his next flight as specified by the FAA. If you read the posts about alcoholic behavior, that fact does not mean that he isn’t an alcoholic. Given my first hand experience of his many bouts of drunkenness and incidents of drunk driving, I would be very surprised to learn that he stopped drinking in the 90’s. In any case, how would you know? You may have been around Maharaji, but you were never x-rated, and none of the current x-rated PAMs are going to come forward and report on Maharaji’s current drinking behavior, are they? But here is why I am convinced that he is still abusing alcohol. He continues to this day to deflect any and all responsibility for his failed mission onto others. In his recent training sessions with organizers, he blames all of the concepts, mistakes, and abuse about the ashrams on the Indian mahatmas and others. He is simply incapable of taking responsibility for his actions. Élan Vital’s website is filled with revisionist lies and hypocrisy. To cite but one example, Maharaji takes credit for helping America fight the war on drugs while simultaneously he and his x-rated staff were getting stoned night after night in his Malibu residence. As a proud and loving mother of two wonderful children, I am amazed to hear you say, “the only allegation I believe is true is that Jagdeo molested children, which I think is horrible. If M knew about it and didn't respond, that would be a grave error in judgment.” Well, in June of last year, Élan Vital claimed on its website that none of the alleged victims had ever come forward. Understandably, this lie infuriated Susan. But rather than leave it at that, I wrote a personal letter to Maharaji with an enclosed letter from Susan in which she explained the circumstances of her abuse – abuse which she reported twice before. How did Maharaji respond? He turned the matter over to Élan Vital. You can read how they washed their hands of this matter on this site. Maharaji’s mis-handling of the Jagdeo matter was the final straw for me. I decided to came forward and expose Maharaji for the coward and hypocrite that he is. The Jagdeo matter is far more serious than a simple error in judgment. Maharaji's whole career is a litany of his errors in judgment, all of them well documented on this site. In my opinion, he lacks the character, the ethics, and the values that I believe are the foundation of you personal, family and professional life. He claims his message is love but his life is a testament to cynicism and greed. You deserve much better from your so-called Master. Better yet, you and your family don’t need a master at all. Sincerely, Michael

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 17:35:53 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: other not as serious questionsfor sazyou Message:

1) how long have you been reading the forum, some of what you say indicates a while? 2) Is this the first time you have ever posted? 3) Did you ask your kids to post? Are you posting as your kids? Is your whole family discussing the ex site? What about your husband, is he going to post to, has he? 4) Do you discuss the ex site with an of your ex or current premie friends? ? 5) I assume you live in so. cal. am i right?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 06:48:49 (GMT) From: Joy Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: Materialism = Realization of God Message:

Premies seem to think the ultimate attainment in life -- which used to be realization of Knowledge (whatever that entailed) -- is now materialistic acquisition, in imitation of M's 'perfect' realization of this goal. I first noticed this phenomenon when I was back in the ashram, not a penny to my name, and the initiators all started trying to dress in silk blouses and fancy clothes and jewelry, mimic-ing M and his wife. Most of them seemed positively obsessed with shopping and trying to kit themselves out as luxuriously as possible (a real affront to people who'd slaved for years doing full time service, or who handed over their entire paychecks and never had a cent to spend on themselves). While I see nothing wrong with enjoying the things of the world, the premies and Maharaji have made a religion out of it, and it's kind of sickening. It's the ultimate result of a lifestyle which places 'me' first, and M right up there with self-gratification as the way to achieve happiness. Perhaps someone should have enlightened Mother Teresa or Mahatma Gandhi that this was the appropriate path to happiness, poor misguided souls. Everyone's responses here have been tremendous. I'd like to see some kind of reply from Sazyou to each and every one of them. Are you up for it, girl? Can you respond to each of the questions in Janet's post below, and tell us please, how you are NOT in a cult?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 06, 2001 at 01:27:16 (GMT) From: such Email: None To: Joy Subject: I missed out;I took asceticism and kn seriously! Message:

rupees, pounds, pesos, dinaros, and dollars, Armani, Mercedes, and coiffed poodle collars, By the way, there's a lucrative pyramid scheme, to fulfill Mahamaya of the new premie dream. Gee, maybe we shoulda just listened to our parents and their friends, way back when... think 'plastics'.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 06, 2001 at 03:04:33 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: such Subject: Swami, think 'plastics' as in SmartCards which Message:

are one day envisaged as being (according to EV) identity/credit cards with a combined debit card account for shopping for divine tchochkes and eating divine food at divine restaurants and sending in all the divine moola to the divine urug. Me too, a poor old armchair yogi. I guess we both believed that it is better to store our treasures where moth and dust do not corrupt.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 06, 2001 at 22:33:52 (GMT) From: such Email: None To: Pat Conlon Subject: we were naive, but at least there's Integrity! (nt Message:

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz fell asleep in meditation this morning

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 14:21:59 (GMT) From: E. Windsor Email: None To: Joy Subject: It's a matter of breeding, my dear. Message:

Dear Joy and Everyone, My husband and I always find that when one is faced with frearfully unpleasant people, especially lower class types, the best thing is simply to ignore them. We lift our chins and sniff the air and turn away. One mustn't encourage them, they simply get worse. We don't like talking about unpleasant things which is why we can say that we've never had a single complaint from any of our clients, that our marriage is just ideal, that our friends are all fabulous and that our children respect and adore us. We simple edit out all the rather vulgar aspects of life because as Maharaji so often tells us, life is to be enjoyed. One doesn't want to let Mind stop us from understanding that 'Experience' does one. We did have a rather tricky old time of it recently because our dear little peke Stinky was rather constipated and subsequently got a rather nasty hernia. These peddies always have the odd problem but they ARE worth the money. We had to dash him off to our vet, whom we've always found to be simply wonderful. We were all rather upset about it as Stinky was in so much pain and rather grumpy too. We prayed for him and meditated. You'll all be glad to hear that By His Grace Muffy is now much better. We find it easier to talk about the rear-ends of our darling little pets than the vulgar things you lower class types seem so very het up about. Why discuss dull old things like politics and religion when everyone who has any breeding at all knows it is not the done thing and is certainly something we never encourage at our dinner parties. But I must say the people we know would never dream of being so crass. You all seem soo eager to hear from me which is rather touching, but I must say that I find all of your posts rather vulgar and I simply do not have either the time or the inclination to engage with you. One must get on mustn't one. And anyhow, we're hosting a large dinner party tonight with some fellow students of our darling Maharaji. (Of course most of them hold very high ranking positions within Elan Vital - such a fab name isn't it!) I have to supervise our staff and make sure everything is just so before they arrive. I do hope you all manage to sort yourselves out but one can't help the type of parents one has and I expect most of yours were a bad sort. It's all a matter of breeding isn't it. Oh, must dash, Stinky is calling for me. Hope it's not another hernia!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 02:20:54 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: Hey ,I'm lucky too... Message:

... I have a wonderful wife who's an atheist , but who never objected to me going to events etc when I was a premie . 2 charming children , & close family living nearby . We live in an agricultural worker's cottage built in 1865 ,& last modernised around 1956. It's rented. We're broke ....so what? FUCK YOU . The reason I'm not a premie anymore hasn't got anything to do with my wallet . Has your consultancy business got anything to do with motivating dumb fucks , like me , to churn out toasters 24 hrs a day ? If so don't retire to Wales . They really don't like people like you there.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 04:39:53 (GMT) From: CD Email: None To: Bin Liner Subject: Hey have another FU2 Message:

How to do a FU2 Wow.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 01:43:14 (GMT) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: SO WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY NOW, SEZYOU? Message:

There are many people here who took the time to respond to your inquiry. Are you above returning the favor and 'connecting' with those of us who have considered your questions worthy of our time and concern? What was your intention, to engage in an honest and open inquiry about a common experience we all took part in at one time? Or are you merely attempting to prove how wrong we exes are and how you have it all together and your story book lifestyle proves it? Your reticence to reply makes me feel that perhaps you consider us all persona non gratis. After all; those who have renounced GMJ could not possibly begin to imagine the error of our ways could we, and if we did we would surely beg forgiveness, return to the fold and strive to attain the same blissful contented, active and purposeful life that you have been blessed with by the Grace of GMJ. Why it only stands to reason, What a perfect world that would be then ......... Myself, I would settle for a simple acknowledgement of my efforts to communicate with you, I would appreciate however small a response you deem me worthy of. Sincerely, Brian Smith

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 04:34:37 (GMT) From: Sezyou Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: SO WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY NOW, SEZYOU? Message:

Brian, I've been reading and thinking about all the replies I've received. Some were just poking fun (and I found them funny in various degrees); some felt hysterical and knee-jerk ('it's a cult and he's a megalomaniac, so nothing you say could possibly be true'); and a few - like yours - seemed sincere. You note (I assume sarcastically) at the end of your first response to me that 'but then again, you were never in a cult and I was!' Ironically, I think that's quite possible. I know a number of premies who I think are in a cult. They practice Knowledge out of fear, they give money to Elan Vital out of some sense that bad things will happen to them if they don't, they seem to feel that they 'must' be students of M or else Knosledge won't 'work,' they refuse to acknowledge Maharaji's mistakes and errors in judgement, etc. I think that's sad. I hope that anyone who has a fear-based relationship with Maharaji or Knowledge untangles it, through whatever means they can. If that means not practicing Knowledge, or not distancing themselves from Maharaji, so be it. In terms of the techniques of Knowelddge being ordinary and readily avaialble, that's certainly true (on this site, for example). I knew two of the techniques before receiving Knowledge. Interestingly, I had never experienced anything while practicing the techniques other than a slight calming. After being shown the techniques during my Knowledge session, I had a very different experience, and have since. I have no explanation for this, but it's accurate. As far as all the allegations that are made against Maharaji personally on this site (that seems to be the main argument against Knowledge these days -- that he's screwed up), most of them seem to me to have very little basis in fact. For instance, the allegation that he's an alcoholic. Even Michael Dettmers, who initially 'revealed' that M was drinking heavily during the early 80s, has said M's not an alcoholic -- in fact, MD made it very clear that M never drank the night before he flew. Alcoholics are not able to control their drinking in that way. And I haven't heard anyone with information newer than 15 years old about M's drinking habits. All the allegations about M 'forcing' people to give him money aren't supported by facts, either. I know many, many practicing premies who donate $0 to EV and aren't ostracized or pressured in any way. The separation between M's personal support and EV's funds is very clear (again, as repeatedly pointed out by Michael Dettmers). I could go on and on. Most of the allegations against M are based on comments by a few people (which may or may not be true), then blown enormously out-of-proportion because they support the prevalent belief system on this site, and portrayed as fact. The only allegation I believe is true is that Jagdeo molested children, which I think is horrible. If M knew about it and didn't respond, that would be a grave error in judgment..I don't know whether he did. I know that Jagdeo was packed back to India in the early 80s -- that may have been M's response. I, for one, think M is certainly capable of making mistakes. However, even given that one of M's 'employees' behaved in this abhorrent way, I don't believe that makes M a monster, as you seem to do. Also, unlike a lot of the people on this site who acknowledge they have never had any personal interaction with M, I have. He has been unfailingly honest, insightful, funny and kind toward me and in my presence. (As Michael D also stated when he first began to post.) Unlike most of the people who populate this site, I don't care whether or not anyone practices Knowledge. If it didn't give you what you were looking or hoping for, by all means, keep looking. If you felt/feel in pain or betrayed, I'm sorry you've been hurt. I just find it irritating that you all feel the need to tell me I'm deluded and in a cult, and that I'm not having the life I'm having! Respectfully, Sezyou

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 06, 2001 at 00:09:50 (GMT) From: TD Email: None To: Sezyou Subject: Sezyou - you haven't mentioned M killing a man? Message:

Doesn't this bother you, or have you selected to ignore this fact?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 14:41:10 (GMT) From: E. Windsor Email: None To: Everyone Subject: There are exceptions Message:

Although Stinky is in some pain I felt that because Brian has confessed to being upper-middle class then perhaps we could understand each other - so I simply had to respond. I might even invite him to dinner one day, he seems a decent sort. Again I'n frightfully sorry if you feel that you've had a difficult time with Maharaji and I do hope, really I do, that one day you understand that it is all your fault. I mean honestly, he wasn't really the Lord of the Universe you silly things. I never once thought that, no, no, no. I'm simply a more mature and sophisticated person than most of you - and I know Mummy aways cautioned me against not being modest but I feel I must be direct - and so it follows that I understand the true essence of Maharaji. I really do believe it is so often a matter of breeding. You either have it or you don't, you either understand Maharaji or you don't. It's very simple. I do feel terribly sorry for you all and I would like to help but really one feels one doesn't really know where one can possibly begin. Brian dear, next time you're in Kent do look us up we're in the book under Pat. Ronising. toodle pip

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 21:12:16 (GMT) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: E. Windsor Subject: There are exceptions , Why of course there is Message:

How charming darling, thank you so much for your gracious invitation. We do so appreciate it. We will be in Greece this summer so perhaps you and your brilliant husband and lovely well adjusted children could arrange to meet us there for a few days. You could stay with us at the Agean sea villa on Chios and we shant say one bad word about our previous involvement with a greedy, selfish, lecherous, meglamanical, fraud of a spiritual teacher lest we spoil our idylic vacation. How lovely life is don't you think dear , the next time you are in the colonies do ring us up. toodle do,

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 12:51:24 (GMT) From: Patrick (formerly Anon) Email: None To: Sezyou Subject: SO WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY NOW, SEZYOU? Message:

As far as all the allegations that are made against Maharaji personally on this site (that seems to be the main argument against Knowledge these days -- that he's screwed up), most of them seem to me to have very little basis in fact. For instance, the allegation that he's an alcoholic. Even Michael Dettmers, who initially 'revealed' that M was drinking heavily during the early 80s, has said M's not an alcoholic -- in fact, MD made it very clear that M never drank the night before he flew. Alcoholics are not able to control their drinking in that way. And I haven't heard anyone with information newer than 15 years old about M's drinking habits. Firstly, I am married to an ex- senior British Airways Stewardess who tells me that the Captains are renowned for their drinking. As to whether Maharaji qualifies as an alcoholic I would not know, but I do however believe that the reports by various witnesses to his drinking indicates that he drank to drown his sorrows and certainly quite excessively by my standards. Such habitual drinking is highly indicative of some deep personal problems. I for one cannot take seriously a 'Perfect Master' who privately drowned his sorrows in such a manner. Certainly his drinking indicates a lack in him which Knowledge has failed to fulfill. What's all that about? I also saw light before receiving Knowledge. My feeling is that Maharaji's Knowledge Path simply represented an environment where there was instruction and emphasis to practice these techniques to the extent where we got the natural results. That we believed those results confirmed some special 'power' or 'blessing' from Maharaji makes no sense since it is entirely accountable to the huge amount of suggestion that was given that this was the case. Also I believe that the methods used to indocrinate us to do these practices have been proved to be extremely questionable. We are now seeing the backlash of the harmful side-effects of the cultic influence of Maharaji. He needs to address this squarely and honestly rather than arrogantly avoiding taking resposibility for his actions. Maybe we are all grown up now and have our own modicums of success to enjoy . Although as adults we may pride ourselves in how much we have 'moved on' in terms of lifestyle, it seems a lot harder for us to move on now from the deep-set beliefs that we still carry from our long dependance on Maharaji.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 21:28:12 (GMT) From: CD Email: None To: Patrick (formerly Anon) Subject: SAY NOW Message:

>My feeling is that Maharaji's Knowledge Path simply represented an environment where there was instruction and emphasis to practice these techniques to the extent where we got the natural results. Thats pretty much how I see it. >I for one cannot take seriously a 'Perfect Master' who privately drowned his sorrows in such a manner. Certainly his drinking indicates a lack in him which Knowledge has failed to fulfill. What's all that about? Whether its true or not true, what I saw of M was his personal appearances and videos. I never recognized him being in a down mood or hung over. In fact I consider that he kept quit a good schedule and never failed to deliver a good presentation. The benefit I got from those talks was the important thing to me. Not to judge M personally. Oh shure I have judged M many times. But it doesn't buy me anything to do the judging. That is my take. CD

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 23:36:43 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: CD Subject: 'I have judged M many times' Message:

'The benefit I got from those talks was the important thing to me. Not to judge M personally. Oh shure I have judged M many times. But it doesn't buy me anything to do the judging. That is my take.' When you say 'I have judged M many times', what do you mean? You have seen negative things about him? Like what, care to elaborate, or are you not supposed to 'judge' him? I think 'judge' in this case is simply seeing him for the way he really is. What's wrong with that? Why deny what you know to be true? Why lie to yourself? I think being honest about him does buy you something, it buys you the real you. By 'But it doesn't buy me anything to do the judging', are you suggesting that you should leave it to him to 'do the judging'? Consider what he does when he 'judges'. He insults, condemns, instills fear and guilt, and lies about those he 'judges'.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 21:54:01 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: CD Subject: SOMEONE, ANYONE, PLEASE!!!! Did CD just say that? Message:

No use trying to engage CD in a discussion because he doesn't do those. But, yes, I just NEED to talk with someone about what I just read. Really, am I dreaming or something? I could have sworn CD just wrote the following. In reply to Patrick (formerly Anon) [can't one of you guys be 'Pat' or 'Patty' or something?], who'd said this: I for one cannot take seriously a 'Perfect Master' who privately drowned his sorrows in such a manner. Certainly his drinking indicates a lack in him which Knowledge has failed to fulfill. What's all that about? CD actually wrote this: Whether its true or not true, what I saw of M was his personal appearances and videos. I never recognized him being in a down mood or hung over. In fact I consider that he kept quit a good schedule and never failed to deliver a good presentation. The benefit I got from those talks was the important thing to me. Not to judge M personally. Oh shure I have judged M many times. But it doesn't buy me anything to do the judging. That is my take. Is this not just the dumbest thing you've ever read? Like, in your life, let's say? All CD is saying is 'Hey, I don't know if he's an alcoholic or not but so long as he fools me that's good enough'. Time for that Catscan, Chris.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 11:42:02 (GMT) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: Sezyou Subject: To be or not to be , in a cult that is Message:

Thanks for the response Sezyou, and now in the spirit of like consideration I will return the favor with a reply. Hopefully we will open up an avenue of dialogue that will connect us as fellow human beings sincerely interested in self awareness and searching out the truth as it commonly pertains to us here. I would like to clarify that although there was an inherent element of sarcasm in the closing statement of my last post, satire alone was not my primary focus. You were the one who raised the issue and question of not being in a cult. I was simply making a comparative statement relative to our many similarities. You note (I assume sarcastically) at the end of your first response to me that 'but then again, you were never in a cult and I was!' Ironically, I think that's quite possible. What is ironic about this is that we really do seem to have many parrallel realities, 18 years happily married , nice homes, loving families, financial security etc. the truth speaks plainly to these similarities. How then can it then be so different that you and I can legitimatly argue that one of us was in a cult and the other wasn't? Lets see, our experiences took place in much over the same period of time, staring out circa '72' to present, with the same figurehead, with the same body of people and organization, committed to the same understanding or knowledge, following the same directives watching the same videos and possibly attending the same events. How is it that we can probably safely agree that did all of these same things yet, end up with different perspectives when it comes to the issue of cult or no cult. I say we are in the same boat here as well, the same truth applies to the fact that we are either a part of a cult or not part of a cult. For instance lets say that you and I agree to meet for lunch on the Queen Elizabeth ocean liner moored in Long Beach. We both show up at the designated time and sit down across the table from one another face to face. It would be pretty darned preposterous for either of us to suggest to the other that one of us is on the USS Minnow and the other is on the QE. To blame faulty thinking on our different perceptions is so weak a position that it is meaningless. There is really nothing at all to debate or think about in the matter, It is clear we are on the same ship, but just to be sure look at the monogrammed plate , look at the name painted on the side of the ship, I mean come'on. And to base the arguement for our difference of reality on the premise that one of us harbors some sort of fear based mentality is even more absurd. Do you see what I am driving at here? I am not insulting you here I am just trying to illustrate that there might be some delusional thinking at work. Your next quote lends itself to this very essence of convoluted substance. I know a number of premies who I think are in a cult. They practice Knowledge out of fear, they give money to Elan Vital out of some sense that bad things will happen to them if they don't, they seem to feel that they 'must' be students of M or else Knosledge won't 'work,' they refuse to acknowledge Maharaji's mistakes and errors in judgement, etc. So just by thinking we are able to alter circumstances out side of ourselves Ay, Then I could be on the minnow and you could be on the QE simutaneously after all. If you say this to be so; then you seem to be willing to suspend truth to fit the circunstances for an arguement in favor of keeping the Maharaji Myth alive based on magical abstract thought processes and not at all on reality. Which of us then is deluded when it comes to looking at what is going on and waking up and saying that we are both in the same boat? one of us is....... Now in my last post I gave you several examples of why I think we are in a cult, Would you be so kind as to enlighten me as to why you think don't think this is a cult. Because just as sure as we both share many other things in common, believe me I am quite sure that this cult issue is a common bond too. Where does truth skip a beat when it comes to what determines the practical nature of a common reality or experience. The problem is one of us is wrong, one of us is deluded and we both need to know. I am not perpetrating that you are not having the life that you are having. How could my or anyone else's opinion change your life anyway? do I detect a tremor of insecurity here? And whether or not knowledge is practiced by you or anyone else is of no concern to me, I am only responsible for my own decisions about this. By the way Sezyou, the pain of facing years of betrayal is by far outweighed through the experience of joy and exhilaration of reclaiming my own free will back. I can't help to have noticed that you have avoided answering many of the questions put to you here. Particularly in janets post and to the question regarding acknowledgement of Maharaji's mistakes and errors in judgement, etc. What in your opinion were these mistakes and errors? I am very sincere about this and I really would appreciate you sharing your thoughts on these issues. If it turns out you are correct in your position then I am all for admitting it and fessing up to the facts. I too close respectfully and await your reply, Thank you in advance for your courage in openly discussing these very sacred and delicate issues with me. Brian

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 10:19:33 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: Sezyou Subject: SO WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY NOW, SEZYOU? Message:

I just have a few points to make in response. You say. “ The separation between M's personal support and EV's funds is very clear (again, as repeatedly pointed out by Michael Dettmers).” However EV does pay for M’s travelling expenses, which includes his whole family and entourage to travel and live in luxury wherever he goes, and probably (just an educated guess) those of his mistress Monica Lewis (I still can’t get over the hilarious co-incidence of that name) who I saw around M at events in India when his family didn’t accompany him. This would also include the luxury cars that are kept for his use all over the world. And I bet he does not personally pay for the upkeep and constant improvements to all his properties around the world, including Amaroo. I must admit I was shocked to find out that he owns it all, and just leases it back to the premies. I wouldn’t mind betting that he didn’t personally pay for the seven million dollar (or was it pounds?) yacht. And the thing that always got me…The watch collection. Maybe he pays for his own expensive watches now, I don’t know, but he sure didn’t in the past. His entire wealth has been generated by donations from premies who believed, truly believed that he was a divine incarnation, and out of ‘gratitude’ for his ‘gift’. Some gift! You say. “MD made it very clear that M never drank the night before he flew. Alcoholics are not able to control their drinking in that way. And I haven't heard anyone with information newer than 15 years old about M's drinking habits.” Well that is simply not true…Alcoholics can and do control their drinking in that way, this is well known among experts on the subject, and also to people like me who had alcoholic parents. As far as his current drinking habits are concerned, all I know for certain is that he is still fond of a drop of cognac! But anyway doesn’t it trouble you at all, to hear about how abusive he used to get under the influence even if it was 15 years ago. For me the news that he was an addicted smoker for all those years, he still smokes cigars at least, was also a real shocker. You said. “He has been unfailingly honest, insightful, funny and kind toward me and in my presence.” Well you’ve been lucky then, because I, and others, have witnessed him really bawling people out and seen him storming around in a furious rage. That’s just a few points, there are many more. It’ll all come out in the wash as they say, and I think there’s a lot coming out soon. Enjoy your life, as he would say. Mine is much more enjoyable since I left the cult. Kelly

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 09:04:29 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Sezyou Subject: respectfully Message:

I appreciate how you signed that post sezyou. I also, think you are the only premie who posts here that has ever said Rawat could make a mistake. I have thought that maybe Rawat did make a 'mistake' on the Jagdeo matter. Well, obviously he did, but maybe at the time he did something but that something was an ignorant and less than adequate response. Maybe he even regrets it now. But does he have the guts to say so? Does he have the guts to address me or Abi personally? Does he have the guts to try to find the other victims? Not so far. And I doubt he ever will. I think he is a coward, and I think he cares a lot more about himself and his own family than others, we all do probably, but I think he thinks other humans are sort of like another species than his own family. You acklowledge he makes mistakes. Apparently you were a premie in the 70's. How can you tolerate the revisionism on his site? How can you tolerate his refusal to take any responibility for the fact that most of his followers thought he was God? It is just total BS that he was some victim of those around him, no one, no one, in DLM/EV has more control over what it is okay to say think and feel than Rawat. No one has more power than he does over premies. You know that. All premies, PWKs or whatever know that. He has never hosestly dealt with his 'mistakes'. He blames others for his mistakes. You know it, I really think you do. If your kids are really posting here why don't you take the whole family to someone like Steve Hassan, who knows cults ( it sounds like you have the money) and see if you are in one? Seriously, I challenge you to do it. Contact him. Let an outside expert on the phenomenon of cults, one who has never been a premie, appraise whether you are in a cult or not. And if you just take the stuff Rawat says with a grain of salt, ( but you didn't at one point or you would not have been in the ashram) than why don't you suggest to him that in no uncertain terms he should address all the remaining premies and let them no he is fallible. Suggest to he take responsibilty for any mistakes he has made and be clear about what they were. If he really wanted to stop being a cult leader, he could, I think, but that is what it would take. He hasn't done it. ( Did you join the ashram to be saved from the drug culture? I didn't, I joined it to serve the living perfect master, I joined it because I thought it was the most reasonable response to what I thought was the fact that the superior power in person had human form on the planet, and I wanted to love and serve him ) Be HONEST, with yourself, with us, and with him. Respectfully, Susan

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 04:47:03 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Sezyou Subject: his mistakes and errors in judgement Message:

'they refuse to acknowledge Maharaji's mistakes and errors in judgement' Please elaborate on what you consider to be his mistakes and errors in judgement. How do you feel about his owning a 106 foot yacht that costs about seven million dollars? What about the house in Los Angeles that he co-owns? What do you think that house is for?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 00:43:24 (GMT) From: Charles S. Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: Welcome to forum V... Message:

Dear Sazyou: You sound like an intelligent, reasonable person. You also sound as if you are not really sure about what all the fuss is about here on forum V. I'm not sure how much of the information on this website you have read. If not much, if you just came onto the forum directly, I can see why you might be puzzled. In lieu of explaining what this forum and the website is about, I would ask you, as a visiting premie, to consider a few questions: If Knowlede and M. are the Truth, then why are PWKs required to keep the techniques secret? Why not shout the 'Truth' from the rooftops? Why are you not encouraged to talk about your own experience, except in a syrconized, scripted way? Why can't the premies have an open forum in like this one, where they can talk to each other in real-time, without having their postings edited and re-written for them? Why is there all these secrets around M.? Why aren't Elan Vital's financial records available to the public, if there is nothing to hide? Even many churches, who are not required to make their records public, do so, because they wish to show their members they have nothing to hide, and want them to see where the money goes, to encourage more donations. If you enquire about EV finances, as a long time doner (as I have, more than once), why are you given no information? Why is the history of M and K being denied, revised and rewritten? How is he supposed to spread this Knowlege around the world, when he is hiding and inaccessible, when their is no accounting for what happens to the money collected for this purpose? Do you really even know this man? How consistant is he in what he says? Why are his videos heavily edited, and even recalled and pulled out of circulation? What is he really doing? Do you know? Does the truth need to be hidden and protected? Will the truth not hold up to scrutiny and skeptisism? Isn't it only lies that need to be hidden and protected from scrutiny? If you have been having a wonderful experience being associated with M., how much of it comes from M. himself, and how much comes from your own effort, and your faith in him? Many claim they continue to have good experiences in their practice after moving on from the guru. Even Indian stories tell of saints who only met their guru once, or were otherwise separted, who continued to have happy experiances. Is it conceivable that it may be possible for you, also? Many Premies don't want to know about the things discussed here, because they are afraid that their 'truth', what they feel to be the truth about M., won't hold up to scrutiny. It's scary to have your illusions destroyed. But afterwards, you are left free, free to embrace something better, those things in your life that DO hold up to scrutiny. Things you don't have to be ashamed of or embarassed about, things you can actually feel GOOD about, and talk about in your own words. You are left with something you don't have to hide or protect, and that is such a relief. I found the information on EPO difficult to reconcile with my involvement with M. and his organization. Yet, I felt there were things regarding my involvement that were helpful, but there were always things I felt uncommfortable with too. So with new information, I reexamined all of it, an how I felt about it. I concluded that the things I had liked about my experience being involved with M and K were all things that I could take with me. I could separate the wheat from the chaff, and move on. So I did. I am not angry and bitter like some people who post on here on EPO. But I did not suffer as badly or as personally, either. I don't critisize their anger, just because I don't feel as angry. People feel the way they feel, and don't need anyone telling them they ''Should'' feel diferently. You seem to be telling us that you feel content, and I wouldn't want you to feel otherwise. I have Premie friends, and when it comes to Maharaji, we agree to disagree. I wouldn't like them attacking me or my beliefs, and I don't attack theirs. They know they can come to me if they ever want to discuss leaving M. and moving on. I leave it at that. I only ask you to consider these questions, because you have posted here on Forum V. I believe it is possible to have the contentment you describe, without worshiping a guru, and also without hating him. In fact, it's difficult if not impossible to experience contentment while being angry at anyone. I don't regret learning Kriya Yoga from M., thought it has been mixed up with a lot of other stuff, like bhakti yoga, that I feel I don't need. I feel he should have been more honest about what he was teaching, bhakti yoga and kriya yoga, combined. It is the secrecy and the lies, the hidden finances and M's growing emphasis on himself (the bhakti yoga) as being more important than the kriya yoga, that have caused me to move on. While I don't hate him, I don't feel any need to defend him, either. He's a grown man now, and can defend himself, if he wants to. He's had ample opportunity (see www.openlettertomaharaji.org). Many of us would be willing to hear him explain things, but he apparently dosen't wish to. He can take the consequences of that. I still practice and enjoy the techiniques. They are called Kriya Yoga, and are freely available, from many teachers. I enjoy it so much, perhaps I'll teach it myself one day. I'd like to see everyone be content, only without having to hide things or make excuses. If many can do that with Yoga, great. To each his own. If some prefer Bhakti to Kriya, or a combination, that is their choice. If you can live with all the questions I've mentioned above, that is also your choice, although many would ask you, how? Why? What are your answers? Many people can't live with those questions, and that is what this forum is for. You imply that you are very happy. I certainly don't want you to be otherwise! I also love to be happy! I just find it easier to do if I don't have to keep secrets and can speak my mind about any thing I like regarding my experience of life. Easier if I don't have awkward questions like the ones above haunting me, when I don't feel I have to defend things I don't agree with. Easier, when I am free to share my own experiance, without relating it to some agenda created by someone else. Easier when I am just free to be myself. Wishing you only the best for your happiness... - Charles S.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 00:23:44 (GMT) From: Connie Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: 28 years later Message:

Dear Sazyou It makes me sad to read your post. Everything you expressed in your bio is exactly what knowledge has become: Socio-economic position as a reflection of one's consciousness, sincerity and usefulness. I do have some questions: If it was one of your obviously much loved children who had been sexually abused by one of m's trusted, and m was informed about it, but never took any meaningful action, and later denied ever knowing about it, would that not affect you? Would you not feel a moral outrage, and want to do everything in your power, as a mother, to right a wrong? Would you not feel confused, knowing, as you put it, that he is a 'wonderful parent', as well as your master, that he did nothing? Would your heart not break for your young child knowing that they had been placed in that situation, because he was your master, in the belief that it was the best place for your child's physical, mental, emotional and spiritual needs? Are not all children worth as much as the Rawat children? I would appreciate an answer, as it is 28 years later for me also, and these are questions I asked myself, and there is no way I can excuse how the Jagdeo incident played out. Not even for the sake of protecting 'my experience'. Sincerley C

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 21:16:40 (GMT) From: TED Farkel Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: Can't quite believe a gal who spells her name.... Message:

one way the first time, another way the second time. So, my question to you is :are you Ms. Sezyou, or Ms. Sazyou? I aint judging, but somethins a tad too perfect here, plus I never trust a gal who don't know how to spell her own name, or don't give the real one... Anyway, you come down to the TRAC Center and we'll have some satsang and maybe a home brew or two.I'm a DVD premie, in case ya didn't know... If yer lookin for retirement and service as a package deal, you might wanna consider moving to the TRAC Center in Alabama...we're doin great things here in our first synchronised year...Dave Smith and the Raja highly recommend the fine dining and licquors,friendly atmosphere,and off-beat yet down home style of devotion found in our propagational activities.... Plus, I don't know bout Wales for propagation... Maybe I could see our Lord givin the special K to dolphins, but not wales.... Just puttin my 2 cents in, TED Farkel Don't get me wrong,I like wales,just can't see them doing the 4 techniques...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 01:03:14 (GMT) From: moldy warp Email: None To: TED Farkel Subject: To TED I like wales just can't see them doing the Message:

4 techniques. You've got me worried now. Will they be saved? Wot happens when they have left this mortal coil? Will they go to hell? Can the Lord drive up in his mercedes as they are en route to Hades and say 'hop in'and drive them right up to those pearly gates if they are not 'students'? How could they do service with flippers anyway? Oh, I forgot, they wouldn't have to now of course. But wot about Indian wales (are there such things?)- how would they get darshan? And wot if they did get K and stopped practicing. All that rotting vegetation in the ocean would get in the way of the Lord's yachting activities.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 03:50:18 (GMT) From: TED Farkel Email: None To: moldy warp Subject: Mr. Moldy Warp:TED'S got it all figgered out.... Message:

Dear Mr. Warp: I think it goes somethin like this... M just aint gonna be able to save the wales, seeing as how they just can't do the four sacred techniques.. I mean they might have a little flipper on each side, but it just aint big enough to cover their eyes or ears with. Now maybe with the right underwater DVD instructional video they could maybe, at best, do technique #3 and #4....think about it... So, I just don't see the wales gettin saved anytime soon, and that's why all them liberal environmentalists are trying so hard to save them wales, cos they can't save themselves, and m, even though he is the living perfect master, can't do it either... At least that's the way I think it goes... TED Farkel I'm gonna tell the Raja to tell his brother to stick with saving dolphins...they're smarter than wales, and could figure something out to help with that technique #1 and #2 problem....but I just don't see much hope for the wales at this point...OK, gotta go catch the end of the video and my half drunk foamie...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 20:54:29 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: explain to you Message:

how you are emotionally crippled and part of a cult. First of all, please read all of ex-premie.org, that should explain fairly well, if you read it with an open heart, why you are part of a cult. I especially would like you to read about Jagdeo, because that issue personally concerns me. If you want to know why you are 'emotionally crippled', well, that sounds like a harsher way to describe you than I would use without knowing you. But I do think Rawat ( your master ) is emotionally crippled. You happen to mention how much he loves his kids. A lot of premies come here and mention that as justification for why he can't be all that bad. This reminds me of yet another Sopranos episide, in which Tony et al ( and Tony LOVES his kids too) are very upset about a pedophile coach who has molested one of the mobsters daughters. In fact, Tony expresses his outrage about this coach while he as at one of his mob businesses, badabing, a strip joint, and a girl who is likely only a year older than his daughter Meadow is dancing topless right behind him. But he is a good parent....or is he? I think Rawat's standards for what is acceptable in the care of his own children is very different than what at least was acceptable for premie children. Certainly, his handling of the Jagdeo issue shows this, I am sure Jagdeo was never near Wadi or Daya again after I reported, in 1977, that Jagdeo was a child molester. But Jagdeo was not stopped from traveling the country where he was treated with reverence and respect and had access to premie children. Double standard? One thing I hear is that Rawat forced his mistress, Monica Lewis, to have more than one abortion. If true, this seems bizarrely hypocritical. His kids matter only if they are Marolyn's? And why were some premies counseled by initiators that Rawat thought they should have abortions, and others forbidden too. Did he have Divine Inspiration about which kids were worth keeping? On all counts, I think the answer lies in what Rawat loves most, MONEY. If Monica had Rawat's love child, it could hurt the bottom line, in donations. If a potentially wealthy premie in the seventies had a family, they could not give their all in the ashram. Later, Rawat, like Tony, got a little brighter, and thought long term, and premies were allowed to build businesses, and have educations and careers. The ashrams were short sighted. Just like Tony's uncle selling H on the garbage run. That way they are a continued source of income. For example, if Rawat had not taken Joe Whalen's trust fund, Joe had not dropped a full scholarship to Georgetown Law School, just think of the bucks that Rawat could be tithing off of Joe at this very moment, if he had stayed in the cult. I am sincerely glad you are happy and your family is doing so well. That is all that matters. Your experience. I am happy, and my family is doing well too, but I happen to think that the devatation the cult and Rawat have laid on so many humans is important and worth talking about. Other people matter, not just me. I hope that you feel the same way, and I hope you read the whole site, with an open heart and and open mind.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 18:29:46 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: 'tremendous affection ...' so he wasn't God then? Message:

Sazyou, forive me for saying this, but you do sound like you found Maharaji out of the pages of 'Country Life' magazine. Strange how affiliation with him seems to have become (for some ill-informed people) socially desirable. You really should find out more about his decidedly tawdry past, dear, before you go singing his praises to all and sundry. You know perfectly well that, if you're going to profess an interest in matters spiritual, you just HAVE to choose a teacher who's beyond reproach. There's far too many of these guru-chappies with tarnished backgrounds around. It can't be done to be seen with them, you know. And really my dear, if you think this Maha chappie's philosophy is something you could even mention to the Barrington-Fforbes-Smythes, well, you'd better think again. 'Within inside' indeed! - the poor chap obviously doesn't even know the meaning of tautology. And 'inside' is where he should be, if you ask me, (as a guest of Her Majesty, you understand). Maybe you've forgotten, but Maharaji is a man who once pretended to be God incarnate. Who has used people's spirituality for his own ends. Who continues to do so to this day. That's not an easy thing to forgive. What's more, that's not something I would like to see happen to any of my friends. I really would recommend extreme caution when dealing with M. He's deceived too many, and gotten away with far too much for his own good. DO be a sensible girl now, and find something more suited to your social aspirations. If the likes of Richard Gere can manage to penetrate the Dalai Lama's intimate circle (if you pardon the expression), then I'm sure you can do better than the likes of Prem Pal ('I can show you God') Singh.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 18:21:51 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: Without knowing you better ...... Message:

Sazyou, I guess you enjoyed 'E Winsdor''s parody, huh? Di you think you deserved any of that? Yeah? Which part? See, you really do come across as just a tad superficial. You say so many things that just cry out for further discussion. Things about yourself, things about Maharaji. What I want to know is, do you really want to talk about this? I mean, really? Well, I guess I'll assume the answer's yes and that you're not just here for a few little rabbit punches and a fast getaway. Ok, let's talk. Just the other day, EV's daily email newsletter had a quote of Maharaji's that seemed to suggest that he's offering you some form of immortality. It's around here somewhere. Maharaji was talking last fall about how, though the body's simply clay and will wear away one day, the knowledge won't. The 'heart' won't. 'Understanding' won't. So, yeah, I take it that he's saying that you've actually got something eternal you can stay with beyond life and death. Now you say that Maharaji's an 'inspiring and insightful teacher'. So what do you say about that teaching? What exactly was he saying? Ok, I know this isn't fair. Here, I'll find the quote for you: People look for immortality. Immortality exists, of course, but not where you're looking for it. People go out, and there they are - jogging 900 miles every day, in the interests of keeping in shape. But saints have called this body clay. When it begins to rain, it can't be kept in shape. The seasons will come. You will slow down. And you will be tempered. Yet, even in that moment, the same reality inside you will continue to beat. The heart does not age. The real heart that I'm talking about does not age. When joy comes, how it is received does not age. Understanding does not age. Knowledge does not age. Happiness does not age. These are the things that don't change. There it is. Ok, so like I was asking, what's he saying? Is he giving you immortality or not? Alright, let's be honest. You and I both know that you don't REALLY know what the fuck he's talking about. You might guess a bit but that's a far cry from really knowing, right? I mean, isn't that one of the reasons that Maharaji doesn't get you to stand up at public programs and explain his teachings on immortality and such? AS IF, huh? AS IF you know anything about that! But yet you call him an 'insightful teacher'. So what exactly ARE his insights here? Hm?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 04:38:17 (GMT) From: Sean Email: None To: Jim Subject: Fair play to you Jim Message:

Sure and yer a good man yerself! Direct & insightful.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 18:03:34 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: 28 years later. Watch out! Message:

As your insightful teacher about life would himself say, if things are going well that's when you're in real trouble!' I know, I heard him say it over and over again, it's one of his favourite pieces of insight isn't it? The other thing he might say is 'what the hell has all that got to do with knowledge?' And I ask you..'what the hell has it got to with anything? whether you have a comfortable successful life or not? I do too, I've got two dogs too!! but I have also recently realised, 30 years later, that I've been in a cult whose leader is so deeply flawed as to be positively corrupt. I really wish there was something I could say to you that would help you to realise that too. Because, although I have been shaken to the core of my being, I now feel an immense sense of relief and freedom, to be out of the very limiting confines of the belief system that surrounds him. His claim that this is the best thing happening in this world, is just newspeak for I am the Perfect Master of our time. Do you still believe that? I promise you there's a big wide world out here, outside of Maharaji's world, outside of 'The World of Knowledge'. Don't you see how limiting that is, it's just like any other organised cult or religious movement, it separates you from the rest of humanity. You think you've got something special. Right? My thoughts when first visiting this website were...Well if I really do have the ultimate truth, then it's got to stand up to close scrutiny. In the words of another guru 'Face everything and avoid nothing' Can you face the truth about Maharaji? I hope you can Kelly

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 17:52:54 (GMT) From: toby Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: 28 years later Message:

hi, I can only say after studying all of the information of insiders that you are the perfect victim of the picture painted by m. You have no Idea what is really going on at m's residence , with his family ,but I guess , you really wouldn't want to know! It takes courage! So dream on about the perfect master, loving father, caring husband...... It's ok

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 17:22:16 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: Sazyou,just one question abut the good life.... Message:

Dear Sazyou- First of all, congratulations on the good life that you seemed to have created and been blessed with. It certainly seems idyllic in many ways. I have a number of questions, but really just one jumps out at me at the moment, and I sincerely would like to pose it to you and your partner (and kids, if they have knowledge). I think that most people believe that, in addition to all of the material pleasures, treats and toys that we can enjoy, (especially those of us who are doing well in affluent societies) there is another area of life concerning values,ethics,honesty, integrity etc.,that also must be in place, for a truly wonderful life to thrive. I certainly believe this, and everyone I know does as well. OK, enough preaching from me, but I had to set up the question. Question is: does any of maharaji's personal life and obvious hypocrisies bother you? I'm not talking just about the allegations of drugs, alcoholism, extra marital affairs,rampant materialism etc., but the obvious 'rewriting of history' that he does himself (or has authorized) on his web site. How can you tell other people about maharaji and knowledge without telling them 'the rest of the story'? Don't you feel sleazy and dishonest, if you tell a new person the 'good stuff', but not the 'bad stuff' as well? Aren't you giving them not only an incomplete, but deliberately altered and dishonest picture of what he is really like? And this is the man that they will have a lifetime relationship with? And your skewed (whether you do it directly yourself, or indirectly through parroting Elan Vital's revised history)introduction of him to the new person is their first introduction to you and the organization? What will they think of you, when they realize that you have hidden things from them(I am assuming that you don't tell them everything. If you do tell them everything, I applaud your honesty, however, I don't think it will help in the recruitment, or propagation drive.)Won't they mistrust you and possibly dislike you if you tell them all the sugary sweet stuff, while leaving out all the other stuff? I believe they should know EVERYTHING, then make up their own mind about it. I am really curious about your position on this, and would sincerely welcome an honest reply. Up until a year ago, I was a stalwart premie for 28 years,telling many people about m and k, until I woke up one day and began to see maharaji in an entirely different light. It really is an 'awakening' and a liberating experience to see the truth. I would be happy to share more of it with you if you'd like. Sincerely, La-ex

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 16:07:10 (GMT) From: E. Winsdor Email: None To: everyone Subject: stop being so nasty about Maharajipoos Message:

Dear Everyone (if I may) I am blessed with a frightfully delightful family, a husband who is playful, brilliant, witty and kind and children who, goodness, actually simply adore us to bits. They go to an expensive private school just as my husband and I did. We run a large corporation and everyone who works for us also simply adores us. I'm not sure what it is about us but I suppose we just can't help but make oodles of money and please people too. We've never had a single complaint from any of our clients. We host many fab dinner parties and have a very large circle of friends all of whom we adore. We live in a large mansion surrounded by a sweet little wood. All of the animals who live in the wood love us and we love them too. We have a bouncy red setter, a sweet little peke, a fluffy little cat, along with two goldfish and several hamsters. They love us and appreciate our healthy family environment. In my spare time I devote myself to intellectually enriching and creative pursuits as one should. My husband plays golf and we often have fun times at the Country Club with our wonderful friends. When we are not dashing madly about being adored and making lots and lots of money we sit on our large expensive bed and force our tongues down the back of our throats, press our fingers onto our eyeballs and stick our thumbs into our ears. Not to each other of course. That would be silly! But I must say my sexy husband has suggested it a few times but I just giggled and told him to keep his naughty little tongue to himself- the devil! We follow a plump multi-millionare Guru who lives in Malibu. He is just adorable and we like the way he makes things so simple for us. We have long realised that it is rather crude to worry about social welfare issues. We rather miss Maggie and think that this Tony man is rather loud. I'm sure that Maggie would have approved of the way our Guru has become a self-made man, so to speak. It is sooo dull to harp on about other people having more money. You simply have to make it your self. As far as we're concerned if people have problems it is their own fault. It is exactly what our Guru so often tells us. We think that the people who post on this rather ghastly forum should really just stop being so dull. We don't like the nasty things you say about our Maharajipoos and we wish you would stop. So there!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Wed, Mar 07, 2001 at 08:50:13 (GMT) From: Tonette Email: None To: E. Winsdor Subject: One of the funniest replies Message:

I've ever read!!!!!!!!!!!!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 03:00:38 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: E. Winsdor Subject: That was a ' HOOT' .... (nt) Message:

hoot

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 00:31:16 (GMT) From: mildew warp Email: None To: E. Winsdor Subject: stop being so nasty about Maharajipoospotsamoney Message:

On how true E. Winsdor. I too think concern about social issues such as redistribution of wealth and all that are so dull. Really I would rather concentrate on myself, and those finger-poking techniques are just sooper for that. after I have gazed at my own metaphorical navel under my blanket, well, the whole of the rest of my wonderfool day is spent thinking about how best to fulfill myself. I have found like you that the pursuit of luxury is actually the most profound spiritual practice -really I don't know what that silly Jesus chap was on about.Of course I do have a former friend (moldy warp) whom i don't really like to talk about, but I will cos I like a good gossip. Well she's gone completely off her trolley and thinks there is more to life than getting lots of money from poor people and spending it on fine champagne, yachts and all the other important things in life. I heard a rumour that she has even joined the Labour Party and was last seen talking to a homeless person (yuk!)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:03:11 (GMT) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: 28 years later / this story sounds too familiar Message:

Our stories sound remarkably similiar, I have been married 18 years to a wonderful, brillant talented women, whom I met as a premie. No kids of our own, but my children from a former marriage love and respect us, we are close to our living mothers, and family members and have many wonderful and interesting friends. We have done very well finacially, through business investments and good fortune I could retire today if I chose to, we take great vacations where ever we want to go quite often. We live in a large beautiful home, with a big swimming pool, with flower gardens and a fishpond. We dabble in musicial enterprises, we play in bands locally, she a vocalist, I a bass player. We have 4 pets three purebread shelty dogs and a 16 year old cat. We are interested in literature and we write for our own amusement. A very comfortable, happy and normal life. Apparently the main difference here in our stories is that I joined a cult in 1972 I was deluded for 28 years and I emotionally crippled and enslaved myself to a dependancy on the Lord of the Universe and his cult. Congratulations on being so clever as to have avoided all of that. The tone of your post does not impress me as being open to an inquiry of the questions you pose. You seem more like a captured bird in a guilded cage using your creature comforts and accoplishments in life as an agruement in favor of your position to stay where you are, than of a person seeking honest answers. I suggest you look around this site and review some of the facts regarding Maharaji's activities, fundraising, and ethical standards. Read the journals entries, check out the origins GMJ's teachings based on the Radhasoami traditions and gather some more data. For me amoung other things it took realizing that the techniques are quite ordinary, they are quite commonly dispensed particularly in India and many other places of the world and the dispensor does not refer to himself as the Lord of the Universe, or even master. They are typically veiwed as simple life lessons and are freely passed about with no strings and emotional bondage attached. In other cultures, one can easily declare oneself a sadhu although it usually is an elder and then spend their remaining years wandering freely about and revealing the wisdom and/or knowledge. There is no necessity for a master, what you know is already within you and what you have is the ability to master your own destiny. Unless of course you give away your free will and surrender your independance willingly, naively, or are unknowingly duped out of it. Maharaji passed along this same info, only he capitalized on peoples ignorance of Indian traditions and naivety (particularly westerners) and led us to believe that we cannot understand our own inner nature without dependancy on him for the rest of our lives. He sets up this master devotee relationship and locks up our perspective and free will forever. This thing about the master being more important than anything else is a lie, it is emotionally and spiritually crippling and we pretend like it isn't. This is a tactic a cult leader uses to create dependancy. I bought the story because M was one of the first and most dramatic (he attracted my attention being 14 years old) of the east indian gurus to show up here with the ancient meditation methods and the age old wisdoms (satsang) of the Hindi culture? I was in the right head space then, young and impressionable full of youthful exuberance and curiousity and dissatisfied with social conventions and answers. I used to think he had extraordinary abilities, now I no longer think so. What is so extraordinary about a man who falls victim to his own ordinary sexual desires and has extra marital affairs. He professes to take a stand against drugs and alcohol, but it has been reported by former premies who had close contact with him that he smoked, drank and used drugs regularly. See the Michael Dettmers reports in the archives. A cult leader lets the cult hold him above the standards that he recommends of his followers, if we become aware of the leaders indecretions, the cult expects us to justify those inconsistancies as the masters test of our faith. The cult does not require the same rules that apply to the folowers apply to the cult leader. Hey he did it for your own good, it was just a lila, you passed the test, now please send in your monthly remittance and get ready for the next one. Through my own eyes I see the wool being pulled over them, while in the cult I gladly pulled the wool down on myself and others under the guise of a divine game (lila) supported by and created by group concepts. Where is this kind of logic accepted or apply anywhere else in life except in a cult? I took a look at the greedy accumulation of wealth, the weak morality, the constant demand for more money to support a lavish lifestyle. I look at those facts myself and I simply see pure greed, and bad example. If I look at them from the standpoint of cult mentality then I can say he is the lord and he deserves more. This impaired judgement frees me from personal responsibility for independant decisions and lets the group (cult) answer and decide. This is what a cult does. I look at the stripped down version of what used to be knowledge, satsang, service, and meditation to todays dry and sterile video events. Only a cult leader could convince me years ago that the only way to liberation was through the 3 legged stool, satsang service and Meditation. Then change his mind and stop personal satsang, turn service into little more than fundraising for money and turn the knowledge sessions into a group of large impersonal affairs and offer no answers for this course of action other than leaving me to sift through this underlying agreement that I am not supposed to think about why he does things, he is god incarnate. This is cult mentalily and it is sublime and it is perpetrated and ingrained by our silent acceptance. If your husband cheated on you, lied to you, expected you to hold him above accountability for his actions , misrepresented himself towards you, was abusive. What emotions might you feel and what amends would you require for him to reinstate himself in your high regard again? I'll bet you would be angry, hurt and probably lose trust in him, you would demand explanations, and you would require accountability, to name a few remedys. You would act this way because your normal healthy emotions are intact. Or would you go into complete denial cover up the secrets and emotionally cripple yourself to protect the relationship? How is it we do not deal that same way with the guru ,why is it a different emotional investment there, Ask yourself is this dysfunctional? perhaps crippled? you said it! Now do some research, this site has much information and links containing data you need to be aware of. This is cult mentality, and it is fostered, it is imbedded deeply and if it sounds familiar or rings true then it is probably is, Yes I was in a cult , I was emotionally enslaved and deluded for 28 years and so are you. At least I can admit it, and I let go a month ago, I am not sure you are ready to Sezyou. It would surprise me very much if you admitted to anything similar in the rest of our familar story but then again you were never in a cult and I was!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 04:09:34 (GMT) From: CD Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: years later its similar Message:

>For me amoung other things it took realizing that the techniques are quite ordinary, they are quite commonly dispensed particularly in India and many other places of the world and the dispensor does not refer to himself as the Lord of the Universe, or even master. It took you 28 years to figure this part out? This was fairly common information about 28 years ago as I remember it. If you have never had a good strong experience doing the meditation and what M has said has not inspired you, then you are doing the right thing changing your opinion. How can you see the fundraising stuff as a big deal. I have heard and read lots of the dollar numbers over the years and contributed some myself. Tiger Woods is making $2M for playing a tournament this weekend. Now thats some quick big money. And apparently the Beatles made $70M last year. Now what is the total real EV budget? People who continue to listen to M talks do it because they get something personally out of it. If they don't, they leave. No mystery. CD

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 12:15:03 (GMT) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: CD Subject: years later its similar Message:

For me amoung other things it took realizing that the techniques are quite ordinary,they are quite commonly dispensed particularly in India and many other places of the world and the dispensor does not refer to himself as the Lord of the Universe, or even master. It took you 28 years to figure this part out? No it did not, I found that info out in 1972, just before I left for Inda , but I deluded myself for 28 years because I wanted to believe the Myth that M was LOTU. How can you see the fundraising stuff as a big deal. I don't see it as a big deal. I know that it takes lots of money to run any huge operation and fund the cause. What I suggest is that he funnels more than his fair share into his own pocket for his own selfish purposes. There are many worthy causes that we once were led to believe that GMJ was going to champion that he somehow never did follow through on. If you were around back in the early 70's, just hum a few bars of who is Guru Maharaji , and when you get to the part where it says 'watch who'll be feeding all the people' then tell me where and when did that benevolent attitude vaporize? Where is Maharaji's charitable committment, even Werner Erhard of the EST movement who also lined his pockets based on self awareness movements developed and funded many humanitarian projects and gave back to many worthy projects, most notably the hunger project, which he has made a huge global impact on. It seems that GMJ can take it but he can't dish it out, money and tithing that is. If he has please enlighten me, Thanks

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 10:06:05 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: CD Subject: LIAR!! Message:

USELESS LIAR!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 20:13:03 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: Well said as usual, Brian Message:

Hey, Brian, would you please email me when you get a chance. Just want to say hi and talk about music a bit. jamesheller@home.com Thanks,

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 17:06:02 (GMT) From: Postie Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: Very eloquent Brian - you're so autodidactic. (nt) Message:

nt

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 20:26:07 (GMT) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: Postie Subject: Good advice for Sezyou,she should also become more Message:

autodidact (self taught, I admit I had to look it up in the dictionary!!!!} A good new word for my new outlook on life

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 17:31:15 (GMT) From: Postie Email: None To: Sezyou Subject: One simple question, Sezyou Message:

You write very persuasively and with obvious conviction so my question is: If all that you say is true, and I'm sure believe it is true, why are you reading and posting on this site? Oh, I lied, I want to ask one more question. You wrote: So, explain to me again how I’m deluded and emotionally crippled and am part of a cult? Warmly, Sezyou My question: Is that a rhetorical question or a subconcious cry for help? Ask yourself that from the third row in Portland. Sincerely and with concern for your next 28 years, Postie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:29:38 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: That's a great post Brian. (nt) Message:

anth

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 03:15:14 (GMT) From: gErRy Email: None To: AJW Subject: Sazyou, show us yer tits !!! Message:

Aw heck, somebody had to say it...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 07:34:56 (GMT) From: Thelma Email: None To: gErRy Subject: gErRy, show us yer tits !!! Message:

No, gErRy - not somebody or just anybody - it had to be you. Don't you have any respect? We're talking about sacred stuff here, like material success, retirement accounts and shopping and you have to be so uncouth.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:26:25 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: Brian, let's get serious for a moment... Message:

...Where do you get your olive oil from? Anth, well we go off to Tuscany every year because we've got this friend who's got this beautiful blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah goes clear after about blah blah blah blah blah blah couldn't get it on the plane blah blah blah blah blah blah frightfully funny.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:35:04 (GMT) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: AJW Subject: I get mine at Bi-Mart, I paid 4 bucks for the Message:

exclusive lifetime membership, the membership fee keeps out the riffraff you know

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 11:36:19 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: An invitation to Sazyou. Message:

Hi Sazyou First of all, I’m fortunate to have the most wonderful family. I’ve been married for thiry one years to a funny, creative, loving, brilliant woman(who I met before living in the ashram, by the way). We have two smart, sweet, strong and beautiful grown-up kids who actually – knock on wood – like and love us and enjoy our and each other’s company. Sazyou, you sound like one of a dying species, and you're very a valuable member of your group. You give it credibility. I wonder if you have the courage to discuss your master and his teachings with me? You're the one experiencing 'knowledge', doing it right. I've obviously got incredibly confused somewhere down the line. Don't you think a little open, free, friendly discussion could perhaps close the gap a little? Whaddya say Sazyou? That's what these forums are for. So people can discuss things? Are you up for it? I'm happy to answer any questions of yours, if you'll answer a few of mine. Do you accept? First question, what is your opinion of what Michael Dettmers wrote about Maharaji's shennanigans? (If you haven't read it, follow the link at the top of the page to Ex-Premie Org. It's got a link on the Home Page.) Anth treasurer of the debating society.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 11:07:15 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: 28 years later- I'm free Message:

Hi Sazyou, Sorry if the comment I made earlier was offensive but you did come across to me as awfuly smug you know. I probably would have come over in the same way too a year ago , so I do understand your perspective. I never considered myself as belonging to a cult. However, one important definition of a cult is that it is an autocratic organisation where the followers have no say in how it is run. Maha is a tyrannical dictator who doesn't even answer polite questions from his followers or wavering followers. He won't even allow you after 28 yrs to express your own honest experience of this fabulous 'knowledge' . Why? Because you can't be trusted not to screw up and say the wrong thing. I believe that you do enjoy the practice of the techniques, why not, I can still enjoy them too if I so choose. I even understand that maha inspires you through his discourses to persue the dream of higher consciousness. However , many memebers of other cults find their leaders inspiring. Moonies, Sai babaists, evangelists, Scientologists and all the other ists , no different. They too do not acknowledge that they are hooked into cults. Seems that your particular cult is more low profile and low key than some of the others. Maha is certainly careful nowadays not to present himself in a messianic context (but you insiders know the big non secret that he's still the LORD isn't he ?) You mention very proudly that your all right Jack, happy marriage , good business ,'normal ' external life. You perhaps think that this means you can't be in a cult? Scientolgists and Moonies , Mormons etc are full to the brim with rich , middle class members , so what? I know that I can't talk you out of your affiliation with your 'non-cult', so that's not my aim. As someone said , if you are happy with it , bully for you. Have you got the t- shirt 'I am NEVER in denial ?' Krishnamurti had some good words to say ' You are accustomed to authority, or to the atmosphere of authority, which you think will lead you to spirituality. You think and hope that another can, by his extraordinary powers - a miracle- transport you to this eternal realm of freedom which is Happiness. Your whole outlook on life is based on that authority. ' More... 'Organisations cannot make you free. No man from outside can make you free; nor can organised worship, nor the immolation of yourself for a cause, make you free; nor can forming yourself into an organisation, nor throwing yourself into works, make you free. You use a typewriter to write letters , but you do not place it on an alter and worship it. But that is what you are doing when organisations become your chief concern. ' How many members are there in it ?' and.. ' Again you have the idea that only certain people hold the key to the Kingdom of Happiness. No one holds it. No one has the authority to hold that key. That key is your own self, and in the development , the purification and in the incorruptibilty of that self alone , is the Kingdom of Eternity .' You may think you are strong in the fortress of servitude to Maha but he has you caught in weak dependency. What if most of the exposés that this website contains are true? Would that not matter to you ? Premies always say that they have had so many great experiences , how could he not be a true master. But Rumi said something which implied that if one is sincere then even following an imposter could bring that person good spiritual results. I think it's you who have created all the good stuff in your life. One day you may realise that , drop the guru and experience real freedom , but then again maybe you're stuck in a cult for life. It's your choice whether or not you remove the blinkers and let go of the fairytale. Enjoy the happy clapping. Hal

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 08:25:10 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: 28 years later--me too Message:

were you in the ashram? were you a housemother? were you at IHQ? did you break your vows while in the ashram? did you have sex there? smoke? drink? get high? get pregnant? did you go to millennium? soul rush? did you abort an education to do service? did you pay off the astrodome debt? did you ever see your heard earned money get sucked up in one visit by someone grabbing it for maharji instead of what it was being saved for? did you leave the ashram due to a relationship? a child? marriage? did you get married because maharaji did? did you break a marriage to move back in after you moved out? did you abandon children to do it? a spouse? friendships? family? did you surrender and shut out your own inner warnings, in order to follow agya? did you supress conflict? squelch intelligent discussion? dismiss emotional reactions? silence other's concerns? have no patience for confusion? difference? oppositions? did you believe that The World was illusory? Maya? did you believe that material desires were not to be indulged in? that everything was for maharaji, not for you? did you get sick at DECA gold plating toilets? violate the EPA and OSHA laws about toxic waste with not a pang of conscience? for 28 years you have been admiring a man who has been exposed to be a hopeless alcoholic, a drug user, a smoker,a sexaholic, an adulterer, a hit and run committer of vehicular manslaughter, a hypocrit, a liar, an evader of the laws of nations, an embezzeler of millions of dollars and a self promoting fraud who does not even practice the very Knowledge he purports to teach. He no longer teaches anything at all. there is nothing left to him now but maintenance of a deadly, top heavy, desperate grift. the bigger they come, the harder they fall. the bigger the front, the bigger the rear.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 11:50:22 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: janet Subject: janet, we should... Message:

...put this post on the back of our EPO business cards. Brilliant. See my post above, it would have taken me ages to get there, but I hope she's up for a bit of discussion anyway. Not one of these premie jerks who come here, read their speech, then run away because they can't take the 'hate'. What a strange perspective they have. Anth who by the way has a great consulting business that has been running successfully for the past 18 years working all over Europe. Also, we only eat Mozerella made from Buffallo milk, not cow milk. And if you don't go to Tuscany to get your olive oil yourself, forget it. You know the stuff in the stores is 80% Spanish, even if it's got 'Extra .....blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 10:23:55 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: janet Subject: Well sazyou.... Message:

Janet, your questions were very powerful. Great job. Here are a few more. Sazyou, how much time have you devoted to reading this site? How much of the site have you read? Have you read the 'Truth About Maharaji' on Sir Dave's website? Do you know that Mahatma Jagdeo was permitted to travel the world and molest children, even after Maharaji and those who ran the cult were aware of his behavior? Are you close to Maharaji? Where do you sit at events? Were you or are you responsible for running organizational activities? What did you or do you do? Were you ever an instructor? How much money do you donate to EV and/or Maharaji every year? If you are so proud of what you do and about your familial situation, why are you posting anonymously? Is sonofa, who posted above, one of your children? I am not one of the people who believes it is my responsibility to convince premies they are deluded. I come here to speak the truth about my own past in the cult -- good and bad -- and to support others who are in the process of or have left the cult. The information is here for you to take or leave. Instead of asking us to prove why you are deluded sazyou, why don't you try answering the questions posed to you in this thread and then we'll talk some more. Your replies will be very educational for all of us, and maybe even for you. Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 07:43:05 (GMT) From: JohnT Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: OK Message:

explain to me again how I?m deluded and emotionally crippled and am part of a cult? You have followed a lie, and made it your truth. Also, you seem deeply and repulsively selfish and solipsist, as there is no indication you have a thought or care for the casualties caused by the things you worship.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 07:15:41 (GMT) From: Abi Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: SF Message:

By the way I know lots of SF writers. What is your name? I'd like to read your work.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 07:01:11 (GMT) From: Hal Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: My , my , aren't we smug . nt Message:

nt

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 06:54:12 (GMT) From: Abi Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: 28 years later Message:

I guess following 'The Lord of the Universe' must have helped with the science fiction...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 06:39:08 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: Sazyou Subject: gaga agagag Message:

ga aga ga ga ga. Oh you sound so cute. No I don't feel like spoiling your well put life or your post, so leave me alone cause I hate rawat and anything to do with him including you. Bet you you will contribute $800 to Amaroo too and get a front set, just don't sit on the left side of the row, cause that's were the shit coming from. Have you been sent here by EV?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 08:31:20 (GMT) From: DeProGram Anand Ji Email: not given To: Everyone Subject: Live and Let Live Message:

I say let those who claim they are happy with M be happy with their claim. If it's lie they are living they will know it at their core. My advise to them is this, ' to thine own self be true'. My own experience is that M played on my hopes and deepest aspirations. A stubborn belief that some how the world could be transformed into somthing more ideal. Letting go of that belief and learning to accept life on it's own terms has been a long painful journey towards emotional maturity. I wanted life to be one continueous orgasm, I wanted to live happily ever after in M's three ring circus Utopian fantasy. He was the dream weaver and I was under his spell. But in his drama, the role he played became a means to another end. Not establishing Peace on Earth as he declared he would, but satisfing his insatiable desires for wealth, power and luxury. If you as a premie are sincerely satisfied with what has become of his mission and your role in it then so be it. I just hope that you are being honest with yourself. And frankly I doubt that you are.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 06:43:07 (GMT) From: Aussi Ji Email: None To: salam Subject: Go for the jugular salam Message:

jjjjjj

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 06:49:34 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: Aussi Ji Subject: Can not do that Message:

Sounds like a lady (I think). Plus am going through rehab, no bashing premies, do not know how long it's gonna last but.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:02:33 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: salam Subject: salam Message:

salam, You make me laugh this Saturday morning. How's it going? I had a crazy day last Monday. I was arrested on the way to work. Ha ha ha. Anth the strippenkartjefraud

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 14:09:36 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: AJW Subject: That's what you get for selling old cars Message:

you pommy ripoff merchant that doesn't know which March is he talking about. Well I hope that lawyer that run away with your wife was there to get you out, or was she arrested too? sheesh. Better ask for you last post on f5. This is costing me money getting all this info on IRCC, any donations?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 03:08:50 (GMT) From: Connie Email: None To: Everyone Subject: From the mouth of my son Message:

Hi everyone. I just related a story to someone in connection with trying to fit in those feelings of bliss that many seemed to have experienced. I thought it worthwhile to post it here. I had a long, fantastic talk to my son the other day. I explained about my involvement with m. What I thought it and m were, what it meant to me, and why it was the priority in my life, sometimes at the expense of my family, which included him. I was making amends. I showed him a book I had kept, Holi'79. We went through it together, looking at the pictures, both of us reading in turn aloud passages from m's satsang. At the end he said 'Oh my god, my mum's been in a cult! I laughed. I said to him 'What took you a few minutes to see so obviously took me nearly 28 years. The only excuse I have is that it all seemed so real'. He got the message loud and clear that m was saying he was something 'pretty spectacular'. He then pointed out to me that he knew of the numerous times I had personal interactions with m, one on one, and knew it had made me very happy. I could only reply that yes, I was happy because of what I felt while in those situations and I didn't understand it myself. At the moment, I was putting that to one side, in the too hard box, as they greatly contributed to my continuing involvement. It wasn't enough anymore, putting up with all the weirdness, pain and abuse, hanging out for the promise of those brief moments in an uncertain distant future. Perhaps one day I will understand, perhaps not. Now and then I watch Star Trek, and am really fascinated by the character 7 of 9. Watching her disentangling herself from a collective to individuality strikes a chord, as does the loosening of her distant reserve. The last episode I watched began with her looking at herself in a mirror and trying to smile, all she could manage was a slight upturn of the mouth. Hope! She was then placed in a mother figure role, and through death and loss of another, one more chink in her armour had been breached. She no longer wants to be part of what she once was. I feel like her. Wanting to embrace all the new uncertain things that are opening up for her, but aware of the call of the siren song of the past. This is such a roller coaster ride for me, fast and swift ups and downs, crumbling dreams, building hopes. Sincerely C

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 12:13:53 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Connie Subject: From the mouth of my son Message:

Hi Connie, One of my sons Luke, was about 19, and in Brighton with some friends, when Captain Rawat was giving one of his lectures on how important it is to surrender to him. Dot and I were premies, and Luke decided to bring a few of his friends along to see the Captain. It was a 'premie only' programme, but Luke knew the score and got in with his friends. They saw the Captain in all his vain, bullying, stupid glory, and for Luke, I think it was the moment he decided he'd never have anything to do with it for the rest of his life. Sometime later, when we talked about it, he gave me a kind look that said, 'I don't want to hurt you with what I'm going to tell you, but..', then told me, 'You know those film's you see of Hitler and the Nazis, where everyone in the crowd is doing the same thing? Well it sort of reminded me of that..' Anth, 'They fuck you up, your mum and dad.'

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 05:29:30 (GMT) From: Babs Email: ralphie@ralphiescafe.com To: AJW Subject: Oft comes oatmeal Message:

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Interesting reaction, though. Back in '79 I took my new flame Ralphie to a video event. He sat through the whole thing but had only one comment afterward: 'He's just a little Hitler.' That was the last video event we attended. Ralphie's mom was a Hitler Youth, so he knows whereof he speaks. Babs the non-heiling

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 12:59:36 (GMT) From: Kelly Email: None To: Babs Subject: Seig Heil....Ki Jai! Message:

I attended an event in London in 78 or 79 with a premie friend and her young brother. He also said M sounded just like Hitler, and all that Bhole shrieking with arms in the air, just like Zieg Heil. It really freaked him out. I think that was quite a common reaction in those days. Kelly

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 08:40:15 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Connie Subject: Out of the mouths of babes Message:

When my son was 18 I took him to see Rev Rawat. His take: ''A jumped-up pseudo-divine quasi-god.'' Of course I rationalized it by saying his mind had been poisoned by his ex-premie mother. I will have to tell him one day that I am sorry I did not respect his view of the Bratguru. That was ten years ago.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 06:44:03 (GMT) From: salam Email: None To: Connie Subject: From the mouth of my son Message:

How old is you're son? Maybe he can write his thoughts on something, I will put them on rawatsucks web site. Ilove Star Trek, and I love 7o9. This week she had to look after a droid sent by the Borgs, she mothered him.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 03:04:33 (GMT) From: Postie Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Maharaji has demanded an invitation to speak Message:

The official announcement is now out: Maharaji has accepted an invitation to speak to people who have received the techniques of Knowledge and to those preparing to receive Knowledge at an event in Portland Oregon, USA at the Arlene Schnitzer Concert Hall on Sunday, March 18th, 2001. On the morning of Monday, March 19th there will be an opportunity for a Knowledge review for those who have received the techniques of Knowledge. In the afternoon of the 19th, the event will continue for people who are preparing to receive Knowledge and for those who have received Knowledge, with the North American Premiere of new 'Foundation videos'. These four new videos contain entirely new material, written and produced to present the foundations of Knowledge and Maharaji's message. Registration will begin on Monday, March 5th, at 6pm Pacific time. Enough seating is available for all guests, so you can make your travel plans immediately! Full information is available at http://events.elanvital.org and at local events.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 19:04:21 (GMT) From: gErRy Email: None To: Postie Subject: ahmahchizit? nt Message:

nt

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 20:57:10 (GMT) From: sUcH Email: None To: gErRy Subject: It costs no sense!But you got Visa + smartcard?(nt Message:

0000000000000000000000000

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 03:15:49 (GMT) From: Patrick (formerly Anon) Email: None To: Postie Subject: Maharaji has demanded an invitation to speak Message:

Ha Ha! Good point Postie. How exactly does this process work - anyone? Do a bunch of people in a city, or Elan Vital or whoever, plan these events and then propose them to Maharaji or does he have a hand in the conception? If the latter is the case he could hardly be accurately described as 'accepting an invitation to speak' Very good point and one that made me laugh! 'I demand an invitation to speak to you all! See it is done immediately! '

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 07:20:24 (GMT) From: Brian Smith Email: None To: Patrick (formerly Anon) Subject: Maharaji has demanded an invitation to speak Message:

I am from Portland and for the first time in years I am out of the Loop, I haven't been notified of anything pertaining to this momentus occasion. Others in the community have been contacted because I got emailed from premie friends and anonomyous ex's here indicating that they are awaiting the big event. I attribute my exclusion to the fact that I outed myself on the ex-premie forum by full name, I would not want or have it any other way. For me I am either all out or not at all, damn the torpedos, full speed ahead with my new life. Outside forces would have had to pull this event together for this community of vicious, back biting, power crazed church ladies. This community cannot even civily decide on who is going to turn on the VCR for the weekly events with out a major confrontation. My last gasp at service in trying to participate with the weekly video events was a huge lesson in the futility of dealing with the massive spiritual egos here clammering for preferred service positions lending closest proximity to GMJ and for seats closest to the stage at the next big event. The service of today has a formula that goes like this show-up, (bring bodies) shut-up (don't talk, let M say it all) and put-up (money that is). A mind is a terrible thing to waste, especially on a conman and his cult, I am glad that I am recovering mine.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 09:00:25 (GMT) From: Pat Conlon Email: None To: Brian Smith Subject: Maharaji has demanded an invitation to speak Message:

Brian, I've been out on FV for 2 months and just got ADDED ro the rapid communication system. The way the ''invitations'' work as I understand it is that the city participation team sends an invitation. The international event planning team then checks to see how much money is available in the community, what venues are available for the ''client'' and whether there are enough ''synchronized'' church-ladies who have attended training seminars in order to do the extremely difficult service of ushering and straightening white table-cloths. The international event planning team then takes over completely, books the venue, brings in the AV people, security and Dunrite to film the event and the ''client'' shows up. The city teams have no say in what happens exzcept to cough up the cash.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 02:16:07 (GMT) From: Abi Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Denver Unity School Message:

Could anyone who knows anything about the Denver Unity School in the 70s please speak out. Jagdeo visited the place and took a special interest in the children there. There is a very strong chance he abused children within the community. Could you please look through old copies of Divine Times and see if there is any information about the school in them. Names are important. If anyone has contact with people who were involved in the Denver community could you please speak out. I hope you can help - this is very important.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 18:01:14 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Abi Subject: Denver Unity School Message:

Sally Vanmanen was a teacher a Unity School in Denver, and later became an Initiator. She was from Michigan, and she, and several others, attended the Steiner/Waldorf teacher academy in Detroit, and were actually sent there by the cult, and then came back and taught at the school. A woman I knew, Laura Davis, also went to the Waldorf teacher training school in Detroit, but left the cult in about 1976, before she ever taught at Unity School in Denver. By the way, Laura Davis has written a book, or maybe several books, on surviving child sexual abuse. In her adult years, Laura remembered that she had been sexually abused by her grandfather. Apparently, her parents refused to accept the truth and I think her book is partly about that. I've seen Laura on television discussing this issue from the standpoint of the courts and public policy. Brian McDermott was head of the school for awhile, but I don't think too long, because he became a touring initiator in the later 70s.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 13:37:56 (GMT) From: AJW Email: anthginn@yahoo.com To: Abi Subject: Denver Unity School Message:

Hi Abi, I knew most of the teachers at Unity School Denver. Some of them, became friends, Michael Blakemore in particular. Michael stayed with us for a week once in London a few years ago. He was the principal there. Last time I saw him, we were both premies. There were also a couple who got married, an English guy called Martin and Phyllis, an American. I went to their wedding. I got to know them quite well too. Whether Michael is still following Captain Rawat or not, I don't know, but I think he’d co-operate with any of your queries Abi. I say this for two reasons. He is a good person and purely from an individual moral standpoint, he’d be on your side and supportive. When he was principal of Unity School, I met him at the Teacher’s Conference in Tuscon. Afterwards I went to Denver and spent a week with the teachers there doing courses in the school. After the week, he invited me to come to the school and teach. When I got back to the UK, the ruling junta in the cult put a stop to the move. Anyway, one result was Michael and I remained friends. I said there were two reasons I thought he’s co-operate. The second reason is even more powerful than the first. He was the principal of the school and he was responsible. Teachers, like Doctors, have a professional ethic. For a teacher to hide, or cover up for a paedophile who was in any way connected to their school would be as unthinkable as a doctor whipping out body parts and putting them into a vacuum flask during an operation, to sell later. It’s is simply not an option for a teacher. If a teacher does this, then he or she might as well be participating in the abuse. This is why, when I found out what had happened to you in Cornwall Abi, I reported Jagdeo to the police. When we started to publicise Jagdeo’s crimes, I spoke to Angus and Sally. The cult contacted Angus, (who had been principal at the second Unity School, in the UK) via Ron Jeaves, one of the investigations it denies it ever had . Angus and Sally had left the cult years before, soon after Unity School UK closed. They were both extremely disturbed and concerned to discover what Jagdeo had been doing. They were also completely supportive and sympathetic. Sally was particularly upset. They both expressed a strong desire that Jagdeo be brought to justice and were eager to co-operate with any investigation. As it turned out, Jagdeo went down to Cornwall after the school closed, and they’d left by then, so it wasn’t relevant. But their feelings were as strong as mine Abi. And I think I told you, when I went down to Cornwall, a premie in the village who we both know well, came and had a chat with me, sort of on behalf of everybody there. He asked me what was going on. I told him. He told me that all the premies, without exception, were completely behind any campaign to bring Jagdeo to justice and gave you their unconditional support. I’ve been in email correspondance with one person who was at Unity School in Denver. This person told me about Jagedeo’s private sessions there with children, “when the lights were sometimes turned out”. I’ll send you the email of this person. I know they’ll be really happy to help you. If you can get in touch with Michael, or any of the teachers, that’s a good place to start. I also had two good friends involved in the school called Phil and Paddy Noble- Shit, I think you know them too Abi. They were at Wringford for a while in the early days. They have a black son called Michael who was at Unity school. Paddy is a poet. Phil is a musician. (Michael would probably like to read that book I sent you, about growing up with New Age parents). They were involved in the Denver school for quite a while. I’ll put my email up, so if any of the teachers from Denver prefer to get in touch anonymously, or want to ask any questions, they can get in touch. (I don’t put private correspondance up without the writers consent.) Anyway, take care Abi. Things are starting to move again. Just when they thought it was safe to get back in the water…. Mr Ginn (Art and Drama)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 16:45:06 (GMT) From: Postie Email: None To: Abi Subject: Denver Unity School info from DT Message:

The Divine Times article from January 1977 is a feel good story about how Unity School started and evolved. It reports that Unity School was started bt Sharon Keller after Guru Puja Montrose in 1972. There's some stuff about Steiner / Waldorf education training. Mimsy Kessler was there from 1973 to 1975. In 1975, Sharon Keller turned the school over to Brian McDermott from Canada - later an instructor / initiator. The only other person mentioned by name is Alan Cunningham who I believe was involved in the school. Doctor Ed Hansleck (sp?) is pictured as part of a celebration but I don't recall if he was a teacher there. There was tall guy I remember named Joe from Florida who taught there also. This a bit sketchy so maybe someone else will recall other teachers involved. Good luck

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 18:40:31 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Postie Subject: Sharon Keller and Rudolph Steiner Message:

Hi Postie, I met Sharon in 1973. She didn't stick around the cult too long. She became interested in Anthroposophy (Rudolph Steiner's teachings) and last I heard (over 20 years ago), had quit being a premie and become an anthroposophist. Some of the teachers from the British Unity school got into Anthroposophy, in varying degrees, via their contact with Waldorf Schools. Both Unity Schools were based on the Waldorf system, created by Rudolph Steiner. Steiner was the guy who split from the Theosophical movement when they brought Krishnamurti over from India and proclaimed him the Avatar. He started his own mystical society called The Anthroposophical Society. Anway, it absorbed a few premie teachers from Unity School on both sides of the pond. Anth who never quite became an Anthroposophist because of severe disturbance in the etheric body caused by a bad experience with a fish head when I was two.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 21:18:09 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: AJW Subject: Was Steiner a Nazi sympathiser ? Message:

Or have I got it wrong . I don't know much about him or his method . I do know that S . Berlusconi , possible next P.M of Italy , sends his daughter to a Steiner school. Good luck to him , I have no axe to grind in the matter. What interests me is the process by which weirdness becomes normal. I'm finding that my old Anarcho/Tory instincts ,are rising refreshed from the ashes of New Age / we love you but you can't do that ,you bastard , thinking.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 19:44:45 (GMT) From: Postie Email: post@rmi.net To: AJW Subject: Anth - I also found a publication called . . . Message:

'All God's Children' from the mid-70's. What's it worth to you to not have the editor mentioned here? Postie - trying to make up for lost time via blackmail

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 06, 2001 at 04:44:54 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Postie Subject: HEY!!!!! ISN'T THAT CENSORSHIP OR SOMETHING?? Message:

Netiquette dictates that you simply MUST post the contents of that publication, Postie. Especially the editorial if there is one. We wouldn't want the editor to hid his light under a Bushmills, as it were. Who was it anyway? Sounds like something from Jonestown.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 10:37:11 (GMT) From: AJW Email: None To: Postie Subject: Postie, name your price.... Message:

...I'm cringing already. My day is ruined, nay my week, nay my life. Please, take my children, use them as firewood. Anything. Don't Postie. Please don't Anth (sob sob where did I go wrong?)

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 16:39:38 (GMT) From: Abi Email: None To: AJW Subject: Denver Unity School Message:

Brilliant. All of that is very useful. I remember Michael well. He was a sweety. I have a photo of him sitting next to Josh outside a tent at a festival Wales. We were always meeting up at festivals and running about irritating premies. I know the Millbrook premies are good people and I'm still fond of them - nice to know they all believe. But I knew that already - still in contact. Someone we both know who was a little girl at the time and still lives there got hurt too. I think of her a lot. I always thought highly of Angus and Sally. Do you remember the parents of Tristen and his sister? They moved back to London. I think his Dad worked for DLM. Also a girl who was a bit older than me and who had lots of older brothers - do you remember her? They didn't stay long. e-mail me direct and we can talk some more and thanks Anth the Gladiator

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 05:13:49 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Abi Subject: tristan---bishop? son of annie bishop? Message:

i cant think of too many kids named tristan. i babysat tristan in denver when he was 4, and always felt a special bond to him because of that. if thats who you are thinking of, his mother was annie bishop, a folksinger with long golden blond hair and freckles and an angelic voice who sang in 401 of the kittredge bldg at satsang a lot. she made an album of her most 'famous'premie songs {'the sun is shining again', 'now that we've found him'...} at some point, under the name 'annie marra'. at the time i babysat tristan, she was in a relationship with johnny adorney and he was always at their house. tristan was named for the character tristan ['tristan and isolde'] in the king arthur fables, and was really into all things arthurian. our favorite pastime on babysitting nights was to make tiny modeling clay figures of the knights and set them up in stories and act them out on his bedroom floor. i do believe she traveled to england and lived there as well. tristan was an extraordinary child, intelligent beyond his years. i have always wondered what became of him and what he grew up to be.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 14:22:30 (GMT) From: Abi Email: None To: janet Subject: tristan---bishop? son of annie bishop? Message:

Thanks for giving me all that information. I'm really not sure if he's the same Tristan though, as the boy I remember was very London and had a mum and dad and a sister. btw I really enjoy your posts!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 06:03:12 (GMT) From: D.U.S. Email: None To: janet Subject: tristan---bishop?YES, he lives in SF,I believe,and Message:

Tristan wss the son of Annie Bishop, the angelic singer from Denver. Annie is married to Vinnie Marra and they have about 5 kids from different marriages and live in Chapel Hill, NC. Both are into the maha, but are annoyed with the 'church lady' scene in their community. They come around, but are not 'gung ho' about the organizational people and activities. Tristan was into acting and music, and has supposedly done some very good musical work. He has totally rejected the maha(I don't think he ever received K) and feels that he is a false prophet(profit)... He is a Christian, and sings a lot of Christian stuff. I think he lived in Tenn. for awhile(music related), and last I heard he was married with a child, and living in the SF,Ca. area... One of his buddies, Spencer Jeffers was killed in a car accident a few years ago, and Tristan was worried that if Spencer had received knowledge and accepted the maha as his saviour, that he would have gone to hell...

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 06, 2001 at 09:44:53 (GMT) From: janet Email: Jai_Choix@webv.net To: D.U.S. Subject: tristan---bishop?YES, he lives . I'm glad to hear Message:

that annie cant stomach the crap of the present scene. its shows her heart is still clean. spencer jeffers must have been the son of sharon jeffers, who i saw at one of the event in santa monica last year. if i had known then, i would have asked about it. Tristan need not worry about 'hell'. it doesnt exist. i hope he comes to find out in his christian walk that all is forgiven at the time of leaving the body. i did extensive personal research on this after my mother died in 1976 and it took me decades, including personal appearances from jesus himself to me, to talk with me and answer my questions one at a time, before i understood it. you dont say what community youre from and whether you have contact with annie or tristan. im sure they would both remember me. id like to send this to them if there is a way. if you are in contact with annie, tell her she's right not to get hoodwinked by the Church Ladies and the Way Its Done Now.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 16:35:03 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: D.U.S. Subject: thanks Message:

any help you or anyone could give helping us find a way to get in touch with him would be most appreciated

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 03:35:30 (GMT) From: Postie Email: post@rmi.net To: Abi Subject: I've got old DT w/ Denver Unity School article Message:

I'll look it over and let you know.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 06:41:51 (GMT) From: Abi Email: None To: Postie Subject: I've got old DT w/ Denver Unity School article Message:

Postie, brilliant! I really hope it sheds some light. And thanks so much. Abi

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 03:14:06 (GMT) From: D.U.S. Email: None To: Abi Subject: Abi-do you have e-mail address for info? nt Message:

nt

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 06:48:04 (GMT) From: Abi Email: None To: D.U.S. Subject: yes Message:

I guess I'm slightly paranoid about EV but just realised that I've provided my e-mail address in the white pages anyhow. abray@murdoch.edu.au I need to know as much as possible about the Denver Unity School. Any leads at all will be useful however insignificant they might seem.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 08:37:39 (GMT) From: janet Email: None To: Abi Subject: the teachers had to go to spring valley ny Message:

to the rudolph steiner community called WELEDA to get some of their training.,. i was sent up to the spring valley premie center for some godforsaken months in the early part of 1974 and we hosted whatever teachers were doing their training at WELEDA. they especially studied steiners body exercises he called eurythmy. if i can remember any of the teachers' names i'll post them here for you.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 00:26:29 (GMT) From: Pauline Premie Email: None To: Everyone Subject: The Gift of Gratitude Message:

I was talking to Janice Wilson today, and we are similar in that we are almost constantly overcome with gratitude and that just makes us so grateful. It is a wonder we are able to eat and go to the bathroom with all the gratitude for Maharaji that is bursting from out of our bosoms on a regular basis. As Mitch Ditkoff says in his Perspective on the Elan Vital website, it's all about gratitude, which is a very underrated aspect in the hierarchy of emotions, or something like that. I don't understand it completely, but whatever he said must be true, or it wouldn't be on the Elan Vital website, which is always 100% true and correct, and does not contain lies. Lying is one of the numerous characteristics of a cult that Elan Vital lacks. No, Mitch is being truthful when he says we should be grateful for being grateful and that's what Maharaji's gift of gratitude does for us. And Mitch Ditkoff knows what he is talking about because he works in a very synchronized company with that very clear saint Joan Apter. And I'm sure Joan would have said the same thing Mitch did, in her very synchronized Perspective, if she ever finished mentioning how screwed up she is, and we all are, and as Maharaji never stops reminding us. When I am overcome with gratitude like this, I just start singing that song we often sing to Maharaji, which is just a statement of gratitude, and doesn't imply in the least that Maharaji is the incarnation of God, which Maharaji has never claimed to be, not even once. Only someone lacking in the gift of understanding would be so confused so as not to know that there is a huge difference between being the source of creation and God, there is just no comparison between the two things. I know Janice is singing it with me now: I love you my Lord Your grace is over-flowing I love you my Lord You are all knowing You have given me life Out of your mercy and compassion I am so grateful For the gift of devotion You body it is golden Your heart is endless love Your grace is eternal You are the source of creation

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 01:12:00 (GMT) From: moldy warp Email: None To: Pauline Premie Subject: The sauce of creation Message:

Now I understand. He never was god-in-a-bod. Someone just wrote it down wrong!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 02:12:41 (GMT) From: Steve Quint Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com To: moldy warp Subject: Rock Me And Roll Me And Say It's Alright Message:

Unfortunately most words have more than one meaning. Encarta 'rock' #4 of 10 definitions of verb: 4. transitive verb shock: to disturb, upset, or shock somebody (informal) The ruling rocked the legal profession. Encarta 'roll' #31 & 32 of 32 definitions of verb: 31. transitive verb CRIMINOLOGY rob somebody: to take money or belongings from somebody who cannot offer any resistance (informal) 32. transitive and intransitive verb have sex: to have sexual intercourse or engage in sexual foreplay with somebody (informal) (offensive in some contexts) And say it's alright Easier said than done. Steve

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 23:27:08 (GMT) From: moldy warp Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: Rock Me And Roll Me And Say It's Alright Message:

Most definitely so - easier said than done!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 03:08:20 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Steve Quint Subject: True. He rocked us,rolled us,now says its allright Message:

nt

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 21:09:20 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Read Michael Dettmers post below Message:

There are so many incredible posts right now and great threads but this one needs to get archived with Michael's other posts. I know I don't have time to read all the posts lately I don't think anyone would want to miss this one. Been There, The information provided by Kathy Sullivan is substantially correct. The therapist’s name is Dr. Irene Kassorla. Maharaji and Marolyn began therapy sessions with her in the later part of 1984 and continued for about six to eight months thereafter to help resolve their marriage difficulties. It is not true that Maharaji shut down and wouldn't go back after a couple of sessions. At the time, Dr. Kassorla, who lived and worked out of her palatial home in Bel Aire, California, was known as the “therapist to the stars.” She is the author of several books including Nice Girls Do, Putting It All Together, and Go For It: How To Win at Love, Work and Play. She also hosted a call-in talk show on CNN for a while. I don’t recall if Marolyn attended their first session “dripping in diamonds” but your report that, “they never told the therapist what M. did” requires clarification. It is true that they never told her who Maharaji was or what he did. That task was left to me, since I was the person who suggested that they seek therapy in the first place, and I was also a key participant in the selection process. Because Maharaji had publicly bad-mouthed therapy for years, and because he was a public figure, I wanted someone who had an established reputation for protecting the identities of her famous Hollywood clients. At the beginning, they had one-hour sessions every week for about two-months. After that, their sessions tapered off to about once a month and towards the end, they consulted with her on an “as need” basis. During the first month, I met with Dr. Kassorla after each session to answer questions. It was clear that she had never worked with a guru and his wife before, and she had many questions concerning the nature of his work, his teachings, his philosophy, the culture of worship and deference that surrounded him, and questions about Marolyn becoming Durga Ji, his devotee as well as his wife when they were married. She obviously considered this information to be very relevant to their current marriage difficulties. As a professional, she never discussed with me what took place in her sessions with them. My role was to provide her with whatever specific and/or contextual information she required. Michael

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 21:31:15 (GMT) From: Michael Dettmers Email: dettmers@gylanix.com To: Everyone Subject: Some Answers Message:

Some of you have asked questions about Maharaji and Marolyn’s therapy sessions with Dr. Irene Kassorla. I am unable to answer any questions about what took place during the sessions, as I was not present at any of them, nor did Maharaji or Marolyn or Dr. Kassorla ever discuss any of the details with me. With that proviso, I will do my best to answer your questions. First, let me establish the context which led Maharaji and Marolyn to seek the help of a therapist. During the summer of 1984, Maharaji and Marolyn encountered a severe “bump in the road” in their marriage. During that time, Maharaji became aware of a rumor that Marolyn was having an affair with one of the premies doing full-time service at the Malibu residence. It is my belief that the rumor was true, although I have no absolute proof of that fact. I know that Maharaji believed it was true because I witnessed his incredible anger as well as his genuine sadness over this matter. During this period, Maharaji and I became close, almost as friends. He was very vulnerable and it showed in his manner and behavior. He was far less arrogant than he often appeared to be, and his mood was very subdued. I remember during August he held an impromptu program in Miami. I had never seen him so humble and unassuming about himself and how he spoke about knowledge. Many people commented to me after the program about how touched they were and how different this program seemed from the others. No one knew the circumstances behind Maharaji’s shift in tone, but most attendees experienced it, including me. After the program, Maharaji and I flew to an exclusive resort called The Greenbriar nestled in the Blue Ridge Mountains of West Virginia. There, the two of us spent three days. We wandered the beautiful grounds and went for long drives along the back roads. As angry and hurt as he was at Marolyn, he made it clear that he had no intention or desire of getting a divorce, for reasons I have already discussed. In one of these conversations I suggested that he and Marolyn seek counseling. I offered the opinion that someone with expert knowledge and experiencing in these matters might be helpful, in much the same way that the team of outside advisors I assembled had been helpful in restructuring his organization and personal affairs after the potential debacle we faced with the IRS in 1976. Despite his misgivings about therapists, my argument persuaded him to consider the possibility. Before Maharaji finally agreed to meet with Dr. Kassorla, I had lengthy conversations with him explaining that any therapist worth his or her salt would need to have a thorough understanding of who he is. I specifically suggested that the issue of Marolyn as Durga Ji, his devotee, as well as his wife would definitely be a topic of considerable discussion, given their current difficulties. Maharaji agreed and indicated that he would feel more comfortable if I were the person who explained all of this to Dr. Kassorla. Consequently, when I met with Dr. Kassorla, I explained how things were when Maharaji first came to the West, but explained that he had made great progress in his efforts to shed the Indian trappings and rituals that were exported from India. Based on some very personal and intimate conversations I shared with Maharaji during that period, I was convinced that he was ready to step down off the throne and begin a process of genuine dialogue with premies and non-premies alike. I envisioned that he would openly address these issues with all of the premies and take responsibility for the consequences his decisions had produced. I believed that it was not necessary for him to present himself as anything other than a human being, albeit a very evolved human being, who had something important to say about the meaning and purpose of live. Although the changes I had envisioned had not yet taken place, I spoke to Dr. Kassorla with a confidence and conviction as if they had. From my perspective, Dr. Kassorla had the potential, not only to help Maharaji and Marolyn with their marriage difficulties but, in doing so, to help him let go of his old identity and fully embrace his humanity. In essence, I had come full circle to where I was in 1976, before Maharaji put an end to the organizational changes, and ushered in a new era of devotion. Right or wrong, this is my response to Jerry who asked, “How did you reconcile recommending that M see a shrink to the power of Knowledge?” From my perspective, the therapy seemed to be working. Although I wasn’t privy to any of the details, Maharaji and Marolyn attended all of the sessions, and he spoke very positively about Dr. Kassorla. Once Maharaji and Marolyn appeared to be getting their marriage back together, I felt it was time to extend this process into his organization. Maharaji’s positive experience with Dr. Kassorla made him receptive to my suggestion that we conduct a two-day conference at San Yisidro with organizational consultant Will Schutz. It was during that conference that the proverbial shit hit the fan. It’s was as if Dr. Kassorla had been playing softball, and then in came Will and suddenly the game changed to hardball. Maharaji freaked. Without repeating all of what I have said before, Will and his associate told him that if he didn’t take to heart the enormous responsibility that comes with engendering such love and commitment, he could become very scary and dangerous. He also told Maharaji that, of all the groups he had facilitated, he had never experienced as much fear as was exhibited by our group. He added that, in his opinion, Maharaji had received too much, too soon and that he really had to start practicing what he preached. Finally, Will alerted Maharaji to the dangers of having so many people so dependent upon him. Maharaji was very confronted by these comments. He felt attacked and betrayed when Will’s comments were echoed by some of the conference participants, and so he withdrew into himself even though he remained physically present. As I look back, the San Yisidro conference was a major turning point. I had hoped that the conference would help Maharaji extend his humanity throughout his organization and positively impact his approach to his mission. The exact opposite occurred. He reacted in much the same way he did when Bob Mishler confronted him in 1976. Rather than let the process settle for a couple of weeks as Will suggested, Maharaji cancelled the follow-up meeting and immediately fired two of the conference participants. He was as arrogant as before and he became imbued with cynicism. He continued to abuse alcohol and he began his sexual exploitation of his female devotees. Bin Liner asked why I “didn't you walk when (I) realized Rawat was a fake?” Ultimately I did walk. But despite my disappointment, I genuinely loved him and I found it difficult to accept what I increasingly could not deny. Michael

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 22:04:48 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: So it WAS your fault after all, MR. Dettmers!! Message:

As I look back, the San Yisidro conference was a major turning point. I had hoped that the conference would help Maharaji extend his humanity throughout his organization and positively impact his approach to his mission. The exact opposite occurred. God, man! Just when we almost got back our fledgling Humanitarian Leader you had to scare him away. No wonder no one likes you. No, really, Mike, I was about to post something to the effect of 'Yet another excellent, important and eye-opening post' but that get's a little old after a while, doesn't it? Thanks for all this, Mike. But who do you think 'Sezyou' is? It's okay to guess. Guessing's cool.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 04:11:49 (GMT) From: gErRy Email: None To: Jim Subject: Sezyou is probably Keith nt Message:

weell guessing is aloud.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 00:48:48 (GMT) From: Postie Email: None To: Michael Subject: Some answers indeed. Wow. Message:

Your post about Maharaji seeking Dr. Kassorla's help and based on results in those sessions, the missed opportunity at San Ysidro, is frankly touching. A wave of sadness passed over me as I read your account. For a moment I almost thought he believed he was human. That missed opportunity for Maharaji, the future of his work and us as supporters of the work is tragic. Even at that point, if he'd stepped down to this level and layed his cards on the table, the wounding would have stopped and this forum wouldn't be here. Big if. Too damn bad. And Michael, thanks for trying to guide Maharaji in the direction he needed to go - for his sake and ours. Postie

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 02:44:48 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Postie Subject: I echo that postie Message:

Thie idea that either in 76 or 84 or ( now?) Rawat could honestly face his life and impact on people is a fascinating one. It is the premise of the MRC letter, that this would be the simgle most healing thing that could ever happen in the history of the Maharaji cult. I think he is a sociopath, or a narcissist, ( Nigel help me here with the Dx ) anyway, I don't think he has the soul to do it.....but what an amazing idea. Thanks Michael, for your post. I really think you have had one really interesting life. I urge you again to spend not just time writing here about it, but putting it into book our memoir form. How many people have tried to explain what you did to Dr. K ? It is such an inherently fascinating subject, you bringing the boy god for marraige counseling, and trying to explain to an outsider the culture of DLM?EV. What I would not give to have been a fly on the wall, either at your explanation to Dr. K or the sessions themselves. Frankly, if I had to p[ick which I would rather have a transcript of it is what you told her, not the marraige counseling. Boy, she must have taken some intersting notes! So glad you are sharing this with us, thanks again Michael. It really is too bad that Mr. Rawat had to run from his humanity, if he had faced facts it really would have been an amazing transformation.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 02:48:32 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: all Subject: sorry for all the errors/typos (nt) Message:

nt

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 23:44:13 (GMT) From: la-ex Email: None To: Susan Subject: Michael:Can you talk more?If so, I have ?'s... Message:

Michael- Are you able to share more with us about this period of counseling in m's life? Having a background in psychology and counseling, I am of course interested in m's take on all this, and how he might have responded and/or been affected by all this. I remember talking once with John Horton about m's simplistic and antagonistic view of psychology and therapy, and he told me a little bit about m's 'attitiude' and take on it.... If you are comfortable talking about it, I have some questions I would like to ask.... Thanks, La-ex

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 00:48:07 (GMT) From: Michael Dettmers Email: dettmers@gylanix.com To: la-ex Subject: Michael:Can you talk more?If so, I have ?'s... Message:

la-ex, Ask me your questions and I'll respond if I can. Michael

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 03:18:47 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: I've got a question Message:

Michael, How did you reconcile recommending that M see a shrink to the power of Knowledge? I just don't see how somebody who believes that somebody else is the living embodiment of perfect being could recommend he see a psychiatrist to help him with anything, let alone his marriage. Unless, of course, you didn't think Maharaji was that. Who did you think he was? Didn't you believe Knowledge could cure anything? Seriously, if Maharaji was master of Knowledge, shouldn't he have been beyond normal human tribulations such as a troubled marriage? All he had to do was go within, and voila, perfect peace and happiness. Who could ever rob him of that, this master of perfection? What mere human travail could bring him down? He had it all right within him, and he was it's master! At least, that's what he always claimed.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 03:30:54 (GMT) From: Bin Liner Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: Here's a question .. Message:

....why didn't you walk when you'd realised Rawat was a fake?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 00:58:14 (GMT) From: moldy warp Email: None To: Michael Dettmers Subject: To Michael:Can you talk more?If so, I have ?'s... Message:

I have a question? What sort of info did you give the Dr? Did you get a sense of what M and Marilyn were talking about from what the Dr. asked you? I'm quite mind-boggled by this revelation about the Lord in therapy!.Thanks (in advance) moldy warp

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 21:49:05 (GMT) From: Pauline Premie Email: None To: Susan Subject: What Maharaji has to put up with is criminal Message:

It was clear that she had never worked with a guru and his wife before See, this is the kind of thing Maharaji has to put up with, his life is so hard. First, he lives in a delapidated house, and he had to marry somebody who sometimes lacks that understanding, that whatever Maharaji does, even if he slaps her around, is drunk all the time, sleeps with many other women even though he has a microscopic penis, takes drugs, and commits vehicular homicide, it's just lila, grace and perfection. And Maharaji is just so humble and loving and he even agreed to lower himself to the level of common mortals and go to marriage counseling. That's just so sad, but he is just so wonderful, and synchronized to do that. I am so inspired and feeling such gratitude to Maharaji, that I want to do participation and send him cash right now. And on top of THAT, Maharaji has to deal with a therapist who has no experience in working with a Guru and his wife. I mean there must be lots of them around who have that experience, if not THAT experience, but he had to get somebody who didn't. His life is just too hard.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 21:33:00 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: all Subject: for a good laugh or cry depending on your mood Message:

If any of you watch the Sopranos......... I just started laughing hysterically when I stuck my image of Rawat in Tony Soprano's therapy chair. For those who don't get HBO, this is a really great show about a mobster and his family. The mobster goes to therapy. And it is sort of the same thing that is making me laugh right now. In one episode Tony and his underlings had to kill one of his underlings 'Pussy' because he was informing on them. The whole show was great. But the part that I am recalling is when the therapist said ' I sense saddness in you' and Tony just isn't going to tell her about killing his long time friend who was ratting on him. Instead he tells the therapist he had a dream about screwing her..... Anyway, what does this have to do with Rawat... I just keep laughing at the idea of trying to do therapy when your client is supposedly the omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent ( lets not forget omnivorous ) Lord of the Universe. Michael, FOR GOD SAKE, how DID you explain this to the shrink!!!!! Well, she's his wife, but um, she is also his devotee. You see Dr. K, I know he just looks like a creepy little guy, but he has thousands of people line up to kiss his feet four or five times a year. They sing a song ' my lord is the superior power in person '. Every once in a while he sticks his toes in some water and it is sent around a charnamit ( holy water ). People consider eating the other half of a bagel he has chewed on to be 'prasad' and holy food. ( Dr. K...I get to have DOOBIES left over from the LOrd! super prasad!!!) Anyway Dr. K, Marolyn may be having a little trouble with this dual role of wife and devotee thing. You see, she is supposed to believe not a leaf moves without his grace, and she listens to his satsangs and gives them herself. But, she knows they are well, sort of hiding a lot of things from the flock' What did you really say Michael? I know it was 84 and probably charnamit and prasad were verboten topics, but MORE details. This is too freaky for words!

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Mar 04, 2001 at 20:51:14 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Susan Subject: for a good laugh or cry depending on your mood Message:

Remember the part where he stumbled upon one of his lieutenants seeing a dentist in the same office complex, right across the hall, in fact? Picture the astonishmnet on Maharaji's face if he came across one of his PAMs doing the same thing. 'Quick, Marolyn, duck inot this boutique shop!' 'Whaa...?' 'That guy over there, coming out of the dentist; I don't want him to know what I'm doing here!' 'Why not?' 'Just this morning I was giving him satsang about how foolish he is to get caught up his marriage woes when he has the opportunity to serve the Perfect Master of the age!' Yeah, I'd say Maharaji's a hypocrite, alright. And like a few people here want to know, what could have possibly been going through Michael's mind when he recommended it?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 22:08:38 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Susan Subject: The Sopranos Message:

Yes I just love it when TOny Soprano talks to his therapist. Lorraine Bracco is perfect. Or even more hysterical was when their son had his first communion and was having an existentialist crisis and one of his parents said: 'Can't you be a fucking Catholic for 10 minutes???' That show is brilliant.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 23:22:05 (GMT) From: Joe Email: None To: Helen Subject: Beyond Brilliant Message:

I actually got HBO just to watch that show and it is worth every penny and them some. The writers on that show are extremely talented.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 01:54:13 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Joe Subject: Beyond Brilliant Message:

I'm toying with the idea of doing the same. I confess I have only watched the show three times all while vacationing. The writing really is brilliant. It's refreshing to see something so original on TV. It's astonishing really.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 03:18:15 (GMT) From: Postie Email: None To: Helen, Joe, Susan Subject: Another Soprano addict Message:

Seeing Tony Soprano, the head of the mob, in therapy is a hilarious idea and freaking brilliant. You love the guy and hate the guy but you can relate because he's human. The show is extremely well written, directed and acted. And art directed and photographed. I had the same thought Susan, what if that was Maharaji sneaking off to see his therapist in between 'events'. What would those sessions be like. I hope Michael D. can shed a bit more light on this.

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 21:16:46 (GMT) From: Disculta Email: None To: Susan Subject: Marrying a devotee Message:

Having been a couple's counsellor myself for many years, I would think that their therapist would have some questions about the rank differential in their relationship! Jeez! Rank is a very interesting topic. It can be like a drug, and also a medicine. It is very often abused, but is not inherently corrupt. For example, a better tennis player has higher rank than a lousy one. In the tennis world, he/she is accorded more privileges, as though closer to God almost, than the bad player. If the rank is based on something real, it can be very helpful. You can teach or model good tennis to someone. But very often it's used as a power tool. MJ's rank is based on false premises, not skill or capacity or inherent anything. I cannot imagine the mindfuck of being married to someone who is your Lord, and with whom you are also trying to have a human relationship in which your needs matter as much as his. Of course, in much of the world, this is still the pattern in marriages. But to have such a relationship in the middle of California, when she is going to school and learning about psychology and all this stuff. How does she do it?

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 21:28:16 (GMT) From: Marianne Email: None To: Michael, others Subject: Dr. Casserola Message:

Sorry for the bastardization, but wasn't she also the shrink for Nicole Simpson, who gave up lots of privileged information about their therapeutic relationship? She seemed like a media hog to me. Part of why I hate LA. If I am wrong, please do correct me. Marianne

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 23:04:34 (GMT) From: Dr. Kasserola Email: None To: Marianne Subject: You are wrong Message:

Marianne, For your information, I am a licensed professional in the state of Beverly Hills and I am not a media hog, nor am I a hog of any type. And I don't give up lots of priveleged information, no way. Nicole Simpson blabbed that all around herself. Like I would never say publicly that Durga Ji, Ms. Rawat, was upset because Guru Maharaji Ji, was a short, fat, megalomaniac with a microscopic penis. Or that she was upset because she didn't have enough diamonds, or affection, and that Mr. Rawat was unfair in being upset that she was having sex with her hunky 28-year-old driver, if Mr. Rawat was having sex with all his female devotees from as far away as San Jaun Capistrano, or perhaps even Santa Barbara. No, I have not revealed that publicly and have referred to it in my books only by using the initials 'Guru MJ' and 'M aka DJ.' Dr. Kasserola Marriage counselor to the stars and the Incarnation of God

Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, Mar 06, 2001 at 01:33:33 (GMT) From: such Email: None To: Dr. Kasserola Subject: or is it Dr. Casserole? (like macaroni w cheese)nt Message:

nt

Return to Index -:- Top of Index