Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Thurs, Feb 22, 2001 at 16:34:45 (GMT)
From: Feb 09, 2001 To: Feb 20, 2001 Page: 2 Of: 5


Barry -:- What the hell is this knowledge? -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 01:45:27 (GMT)
__ bill--delusionary theory -:- tied loosely to the breath..nt -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 03:59:14 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Nothing profound, I'll tell you that much -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 01:56:40 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Nothing profound, I'll tell you that much -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 02:27:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- Jerry, brilliant! Whoa! n/t -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 06:44:59 (GMT)
__ Bin Liner -:- Combine the Janet ,Postie ,Conlon posts below.. -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 22:34:00 (GMT)
__ __ Barry -:- Never!(nt) -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 23:53:22 (GMT)
__ la-ex -:- Barry, you might try this experiment.... -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 19:32:18 (GMT)
__ __ Barry -:- Maybe-we'll see.(nt) -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 23:56:13 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- My description -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 15:22:51 (GMT)
__ __ Barry -:- My description -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 00:10:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- We used to do that! -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 00:19:21 (GMT)
__ cq -:- Took ages to find them, but ex-premie.org has this -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 15:02:00 (GMT)
__ __ Barry -:- Thanks cq.(nt) -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 00:12:32 (GMT)
__ __ Forum Admin -:- How to Navigate Ex-Premie.org -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 15:55:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Still takes some finding, IMO (nt) anyone else? -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 16:34:18 (GMT)
__ janet -:- What the hell is this knowledge? -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 13:04:48 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- If I thought like that I'd still be a premie -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 18:54:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ janet -:- i got wise, jim. that ain't god. thats a user. -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 22:59:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- That's very poetic but .................. -:- Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 04:28:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Barry -:- That's very poetic but .................. -:- Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 16:54:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Amen, Janet -:- Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 01:54:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Barry -:- Don't let it all get to you Janet.... -:- Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 00:46:43 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- Cut and paste this into a Journey -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 06:54:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Francesca, Can Janet write or what? -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 10:18:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ janet -:- i imagine you've intimately known many nuts, too -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 23:05:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- i imagine you've intimately known many nuts, too -:- Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 01:49:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Barry -:- I agree with Pat! -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 21:04:04 (GMT)
__ __ bill--make it easier for -:- us readers by using paragraphs, ect,....:)..nt -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 04:02:11 (GMT)
__ __ Barry -:- Holy shit Janet! -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 00:16:48 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Straight from the yogi's mouth. -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 12:47:30 (GMT)
__ __ Barry -:- Here's a tissue!(nt) -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 00:19:40 (GMT)
__ JHB -:- Did you do that research? -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 07:13:08 (GMT)
__ __ Barry -:- Did you do that research? -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 00:21:23 (GMT)
__ SB -:- knowledge of confusion? -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 06:53:58 (GMT)
__ __ Barry -:- The smartest responce thus far!(nt) -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 00:23:06 (GMT)
__ Tim G -:- The Knowledge you can't get in college -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 02:53:57 (GMT)
__ __ salam -:- You are wrong matie -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 05:40:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ Barry -:- Your both right.(nt) -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 00:26:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Howya doin' mate? -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 23:00:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ Tim G -:- You are wrong matie -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 10:51:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Postie -:- Knowledge = Devotion to Maharaji -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 17:33:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Barry, the fifth technique -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 20:42:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Barry -:- No what I mean..no what I mean??(nt) -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 00:31:15 (GMT)

JTF -:- Separated together in a bunch-more EV bull -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 23:27:23 (GMT)
__ Patrick (formerly Anon) -:- Something like this has been done before. -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 11:52:31 (GMT)
__ Malibu Mole -:- Can't wait til this thing gets.... -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 01:19:41 (GMT)
__ Bin Liner -:- Far reaching implications/innovations my arsehole -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 00:35:22 (GMT)
__ JHB -:- So what happened to the touch of a realised soul? -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 23:44:45 (GMT)
__ __ JTF -:- A Humorous Possibility -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 02:16:45 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Exactly! -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 02:14:13 (GMT)
__ __ Postie -:- Just put your forehead to the video screen .... -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 23:58:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Just put your forehead to the video screen .... -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 13:56:45 (GMT)

Way -:- so hum meditation -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 21:31:23 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- so hum meditation -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 21:53:43 (GMT)

cq -:- It's about that 'gift' -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 20:35:18 (GMT)
__ cq -:- what's free? and what's NOT free about it? -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 21:21:18 (GMT)

Curious -:- Mike Finches Posts -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 19:38:43 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Mike Finches Posts -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 13:29:46 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Anth, I'm in correspondace with at least half -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 18:30:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Why would any of us have stuck it out? -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 18:53:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bin Liner -:- Ah yes ,the something out of it ones... -:- Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 00:02:48 (GMT)

Jim -:- Philosophy 101 (more ELK droppings) -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 17:02:24 (GMT)
__ Darryl says: How does -:- knowledge express itself individually?....nt -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 19:01:29 (GMT)
__ __ Anth says -:- snot hath not words, and falleth on the floor (nt) -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 13:33:05 (GMT)
__ SB -:- So, you never learn anything? -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 18:28:59 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- So, you never learn anything? -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 20:13:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ SB -:- So, you never learn anything? -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 05:45:53 (GMT)

Way -:- photos of Kissimmee -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 16:59:11 (GMT)

romilar -:- prem nagar ashram 1972 -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 14:30:44 (GMT)
__ bill--dont do it Romilar -:- those eyes are gone...nt -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 19:04:34 (GMT)
__ gerry -:- nice story rocky... real vintage flavor NT -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 15:23:45 (GMT)

Larkin -:- The Ballad of Amaroo -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 13:18:23 (GMT)
__ Cynthia -:- ‘Bhole shri satg’rudev fatso ki jai!’....KUDOS!!! -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 00:08:13 (GMT)
__ Patrick (formerly Anon) -:- The Ballad of Amaroo -Briilliant (NT) -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 23:01:59 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- The Logo For Phase Two -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 21:38:41 (GMT)
__ Robyn -:- The Ballad of Amaroo -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 21:36:19 (GMT)
__ __ larkin -:- The Ballad of Amaroo -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 21:55:22 (GMT)
__ Loaf -:- THIS MUST BE RECORDED !!!! -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 14:13:40 (GMT)
__ __ larkin -:- Consider it a studio booking! -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 20:56:09 (GMT)
__ Marianne -:- BEST OF FORUM! BEST OF FORUM!!!!!!!! -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 13:51:31 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- BRAVO!! BRAVO!!! n/t -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 18:31:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill -:- BRAVO!! BRAVO!!! n/t -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 04:02:01 (GMT)

ITMA -:- Just a thought -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 04:34:10 (GMT)

jondon -:- Regarding Thread Below -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 03:01:54 (GMT)
__ WMary -:- Regarding Thread Below -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 12:48:50 (GMT)

Flea in Your Ear -:- What is ''Dun-Rite?'' -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 20:45:07 (GMT)
__ Tick on your ass -:- Dunrite makes the videos -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 05:40:31 (GMT)
__ __ Francesca -:- From Secretary of State's Website -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 06:42:09 (GMT)
__ __ Pat Conlon -:- Only ''Fly on the Wall'' missing. Get the RAID! -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 06:04:46 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- It's A Sister Corporation Of 'Done Dirt Cheap' -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 01:15:14 (GMT)
__ Ian Dury -:- Dunrite Productions -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 21:01:58 (GMT)
__ __ Pauline Premie -:- I never had sex with Willow Baker -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 00:31:57 (GMT)
__ __ Pauline Premie -:- I tried to have sex with Rich Neel -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 22:16:47 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- Dunrite Productions -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 21:19:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ Pat Conlon -:- Dunrite Productions web site -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 02:52:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jethro -:- Re: Ira -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 22:05:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ Ian Dury -:- Ira Woods -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 21:27:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- Question -- all aging premies from the 70s -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 21:31:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Aussi Ji -:- Question -- all aging premies from the 70s -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 22:37:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- and does anyone hear -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 00:54:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- and does anyone hear -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 00:56:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- hee hee no they didn't -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 01:05:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Question -- all aging premies from the 70s -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 23:11:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Postie -:- Dun-Rite people are paid reasonably well... -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 21:48:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- Dun-Rite people are paid reasonably well... -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 23:17:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Postie -:- Monica, Dun-Rite, Tea Parties -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 00:50:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- 70's premies creating false impressions on FAQs -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 09:27:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Postie -:- 70's premies creating false impressions on FAQs -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 17:34:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- 70's premies creating false impressions on FAQs -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 17:41:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Postie -:- 70's premies creating false impressions on FAQs -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 17:50:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Ian Dury -:- Question -- all aging premies from the 70s -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 21:44:02 (GMT)

Ulf -:- Atlantic city conf. 20. 12 76 -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 20:21:18 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Get a sound-file onto the web ASAP!!!! Please!!! -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 22:44:43 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- I would LOVE to hear that Atlantic City tape -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 20:52:37 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- I'll split the task with you Joe -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 18:25:27 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Everything reg Amaroo -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 15:57:44 (GMT)
__ Been There -:- The Cook Blew His Lid -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 18:14:45 (GMT)
__ bill-'&36;'1600.00 for -:- 4 Dinners and 6 Lunches!....nt -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 02:54:31 (GMT)
__ __ bill -:- 4 Dinners and 6 Lunches!....nt -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 02:55:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ bill--1,600. dollars for -:- 4 Dinners and 6 Lunches!....nt -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 02:56:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Been There -:- the Big Draw -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 18:28:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ bill--Someone I know did -:- eat there andsaid rawat has his own dining room.nt -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 19:06:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- he wouldn't eat that slop (nt) -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 21:24:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- 'CANCELLATIONS BY US' -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 22:44:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- 'CANCELLATIONS BY US' -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 23:04:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Does the forum count as 'hostilities'? (nt) -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 02:11:25 (GMT)
__ TD -:- Ha-ha. Even the 10 dollar parking fee makes me... -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 22:03:34 (GMT)
__ __ TD -:- Why is Fine Dining not Daya's Fine Dining now? -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 22:05:38 (GMT)
__ Francesca -:- Amarscroo -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 18:02:41 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- 'Amaroogeddon'..? nt. -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 18:08:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ Postie -:- 'Am-I-A-Ru?' nt. -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 21:13:57 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- * WE'VE * been invited!! -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 17:39:07 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Good. I'm going -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 04:28:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ Barry -:- You know jim.... -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 02:10:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- I'll meet you there (nt) -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 20:37:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ TED Farkel -:- First TRAC Grant of 20.00 US goes to Mr.JimHeller! -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 17:13:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Barry -:- Funny funny shit!(nt) -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 02:13:36 (GMT)
__ __ TD -:- I'd rather spend the money going to the Reef.... -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 22:41:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- Amaroo vs. scuba..? Hmm - not a lot in it.. -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 20:13:28 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- Proposal....... -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 20:56:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sivan/Sam -:- i'd like holiday.....but -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 07:42:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- My post below is no joke, btw... -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 20:33:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ G -:- a pimp? -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 23:48:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- a pimp? -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 09:06:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Barry -:- I see I've started something!(nt) -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 01:41:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- Well as it happens... -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 13:24:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Well as it happens... -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 13:47:30 (GMT)
__ JHB -:- I'M REALLY GOBSMACKED! -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 17:06:56 (GMT)
__ __ Sivan/Sam -:- they''l go ahead -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 07:56:46 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Aussie Ji's Feb 13 post -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 19:41:37 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- The 800 dollar 'Gift'. -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 17:04:15 (GMT)
__ __ Joe -:- The 800 dollar 'Gift' NO MANDATORY. -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 19:16:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sivan/Sam -:- they sell alcolol in dining room-amaroo-nt -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 08:03:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ Brian S -:- They have to get you drunk now to numb up the pain -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 02:28:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ Flea in Your Ear -:- Who's rich enough to go to this fucking rip-off... -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 19:39:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Joe -:- This Knowledge is not for everyone. -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 20:49:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Not strictly lilywhite -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 21:23:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- US premies -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 23:52:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Flea in Your Ear -:- PWKs not all that concerned with consistency -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 20:55:53 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- 'Minimum gift'?!!! Interesting.. -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 18:06:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ Francesca -:- 'Minimum gift'?!!! Interesting.. -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 19:19:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Correction: My post below is wrong! -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 19:29:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Correction: My post below is wrong! -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 20:51:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Sivan/Sam -:- what's the bet..... -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 08:17:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- Also, how far away are the nearest hotels? -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 00:04:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- It is amazing, isn't it? -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 00:37:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- But the IRS rules only keep them from ... -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 01:08:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joe -:- But the IRS rules only keep them from ... -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 05:13:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Francesca -:- I don't know about the IRS rules but ... -:- Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 07:02:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Appropriate conduct is required -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 18:21:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Elan Vital -:- Appropriate conduct is required -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 19:55:50 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- The prophet of Amardoom -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 17:17:14 (GMT)
__ Steve Quint -:- Incroyable nt -:- Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 17:03:35 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- C'est vraiment incroyable-goober's a fob (nt) -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 14:54:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ Steve Quint -:- Pig's Feet For U.S. 100 - Must Be Good nt -:- Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 20:30:45 (GMT)


Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 01:45:27 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: What the hell is this knowledge?
Message:
The ex premie description first please.
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 03:59:14 (GMT)
From: bill--delusionary theory
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: tied loosely to the breath..nt
Message:
jhg
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 01:56:40 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Nothing profound, I'll tell you that much
Message:
Knowledge, is an Inidan rope trick. Start with the premise that there's an eternal soul inside of you, hidden, somehow, behind your mind, your thoughts, your personality, your memory. The soul is just partying away in perfect bliss -- the only kind it knows -- because that's what souls do. Assume that and the rest is easy.

Now imagine that, if there's this secret gold mine inside, this golden pot of divine pleasure, it's only reasonable that there must be some way to access all this bounty. After all, God would be pretty silly, wouldn't he, filling us with goodies we could never find?

Enter guru. Maharaji tells you that there are four internal senses, just like the outer ones we know. They'll take you within and there you are, heaven.

Problem is, it's all bullshit. There is no soul, there's no secret garden of god inside and the technqiues are hokum. All we ever got out of them we projected, hyperventilated, exaggerated or just deprived our senses of natural stimulation so persistently, we just got into these imaginary god spaces. Easy to work up but ultimately fake.

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Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 02:27:59 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Nothing profound, I'll tell you that much
Message:
It's a different tune, today, Jim. Back in the seventies we all thought there was this soul in bliss just waiting to be discovered, and Knowledge was the key. But today, Maharaji's message seems to be that 'what you see is what you get'. It's baffling, but to listen to Maharaji, there isn't anything to aspire toward.

When people confront Maharaji about their lack of experience, he retaliates by saying there's no such thing as a lack of experiecnce. Yes, it's true, Maharaji claims that when you receive Knowledge, you have entered into the world he speaks about. If you don't feel that way, according to Maharaji, it's because you're denying what it is you truly feel. Yes, Jim, the mindfuck is much worse now than it's ever been.

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Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 06:44:59 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Jerry, brilliant! Whoa! n/t
Message:
nnnnnnooooooooooooooooooo
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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 22:34:00 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Combine the Janet ,Postie ,Conlon posts below..
Message:
& you're getting warm.

Do try la-ex's suggestion .

I too would be curious to know the results.

Just as long as you don't get converted you understand.

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 23:53:22 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Bin Liner
Subject: Never!(nt)
Message:
rrr
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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 19:32:18 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Barry, you might try this experiment....
Message:
Barry-

When maharaji first came here, one of the main things that attracted myself and so many others was the fact that he was peddling an 'experience', rather than a religious dogma...

He would say things like 'see first, then believe', which seemed to make a lot of sense to someone seeking truth...it also seemed like a 'money back guarantee', in the sense that you only had to believe what you experienced, and if you didn't like it, you could leave it....

Well, it wasn't exactly that simple....there was a little problem in the 'truth in advertising' department....

But, here is an experiment that you, or anyone curious about all this, could make....

Go to the section of EPO where the techniques are,read about them, practice them a few times, and see if it changes your life in any positive way...

It used to be thought that you had to be initiated into the 4 techniques by an 'enlightened person' who was totally surrendered to the master...now it's done through a video, so it's not really different than getting the 4 techniques from this site...

So, you could try them, and report back to us about your 'experience'...it might be interesting to see what it was like, both for you and for us...

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 23:56:13 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Maybe-we'll see.(nt)
Message:
jjj
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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 15:22:51 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: My description
Message:
Here are the four techniques the way I understand them, and I do think I understand them. There's nothing cosmic about them. There's nothing that's going to happen that isn't already when you practice them. Others wait for things to happen. The key is in knowing it already is.

1) Turn out the lights. Close your eyes. Whatever you see, that's 'Light'. Heck in a dark room, you don't even have to close your eyes.

2) Plug up your ears. Whatever you hear, that's 'Music'.

3) Focus on your breath. Whatever you feel, that's the 'Word'.

4) Roll your tongue back, but not so far it's uncomfortable. Whatever you taste, that's 'Nectar'.

Have fun.

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Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 00:10:52 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: My description
Message:
Your totaly right-there's nothing here that's cosmic at all. Shit! When we were kids we use to give eachother what we called put-outs. The partisipant would breath rapedly for a few fast breathes, then the other would squeeze hard on your chest while you held your breath, then the guy would let go....Wa La! instant cosmic trip complete with cool flashing colours etc...
Way cooler than this crap! Man, I should have started a group!
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Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 00:19:21 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: We used to do that!
Message:
It was weird when you came to, though, lying on the floor with your friends standing all around you. 'Where am I?' Your friends acting as if nothing's happenned. 'You okay, Jer?' Ha ha! Those were the days, eh? Everything was a goof, nothing taken seriously. I should have treated the Maha and his fucking 'knowledge' the same way.
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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 15:02:00 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Took ages to find them, but ex-premie.org has this
Message:
Here you go:

http://www.ex-premie.org/pages/aspir5.htm for how it's done nowadays

and

http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/KSession.htm#anchor2550841 for the way it used to be (pictures included)

Hey, FA, how about making these easier to find?

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Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 00:12:32 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Thanks cq.(nt)
Message:
jjjj
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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 15:55:46 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: How to Navigate Ex-Premie.org
Message:
A beginners guide:-

Go to the EPO link at the top of the forum page.

Click the Nuts and Bolts link, and then scroll down the excellently organised detailed information available on just about every aspect of M/K/DLM/EV. Both the new and old descriptions of the knowledge session are easily found.

BTW, the forum FA does not manage the EPO site (apart from the forum), but has no complaints about how it is managed:-)

Forum Admin

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 16:34:18 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: Still takes some finding, IMO (nt) anyone else?
Message:
df
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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 13:04:48 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: What the hell is this knowledge?
Message:
your question prompts me at this stage of my ex-ing to separate what the techniques of meditation did for me vs. what the hypocritical leader wanted from me.
i had been fasting for two weeks on the day of my knowledge session. apparently i had a whopper of an experience not typical for most people, but i didnt know that.
the first technique, which was then called the LIght technique, and in later years was relabeled the First technique, only gave me patterns and lightning formations in the darkness behind my lids when i closed my eyes and pressed my eyeballs as instructed to. in later years it sometimes drew my consciousnsess together in an intensely concentrated way and seemed to raise my sensitivity to a finer ;level of perception, but usually i did not realize it until after i had finished the meditation session and gone out into my day.
the second technique was my conversion experience. the first time i plugged my ears and listened, i was sucked into successively more intricate levels of inner sound, one after the next, topping out at some faraway, edenic surroundsound with a corresponding place i felt and arrived in, inside my being. the outer worldwas gone for me , tho i was still sitting cross legged in the room with 25 others being initiated. and suddenly i was taken even beyond that level and felt as tho i was pulled into the vortex core of awareness, the mind of god, and knew all things in every place, the universe over. it was like an electrocution that didnt hurt but rather satiated my need to understand.
but the mere sound of a guy next to me clearing his throat jarred me enough to bring me crashing back into the room and i lost the connection.
my bewilderment serious crimped my ability to get on to the next technique. we called it the Holy Name or The Word. all it required was fixation on a particular strain in the breath, and the progressive filering out of distraction acomplished by the previous two techniques were supposed to have sufficiently cleansed and quelled the mind by that time that becoming absorbed in the counterpoint of the inbreath/outbreath took one over completely and all faded away but that.
the last technique was called the Nectar tecnique when we learned it, and was genericized to the 4th technique in later years. it was taught to us as to be done while doing the other three, and to be done when not speaking or eating. the physical posture was one side of it, the experience waanother, and they did not necessarily occur together.
the posture was based on the observaation or reports that people often 'swallow their tongues' when going into a convulsion or an extreme out of body state, and that if we prepared and practiced that, we would be ready when ultimate ecstacy and ascension overtook us. so we labored to pull our tongues back and tried to get them to up the backs of our throats. some extremeists went so far as to cut the ligament under their tongue so they could reach back further.
the actual nectar was apart from the tortured posture. i got nectar on various occasions out of nowhere, when i was suddenly utterly content or happy at some tiny detail of my environment or situation that meant nothing to anyone else. it came as a taste or a smell, and on some occasions was so stong as to preclude any other interest in the external world. i remember one day in particular when i was served a meal at the shelter but was tasting nectar so constantly from a long meditation, that the food just looked like dirt. i kept going off into the flavor in my mouth, bewitched, and then reminded myself i was supposed to eat and get going to my work, and i'd open my eyes and stare at what was on the plate and couldnt bring myself to trade that for this.
so those were the 4 techniques. they definitely changed my percepton of the world and of people. i dropped a lifetime of sarcasm and became compassionate. i could see peoples pain and touch it with comfort. i took to wearing earplugs all day because i could hear the inner sounds and could read the emotional state of people better without their profane soundtrack. their mouths lied but their eyes could not. so i spoke to what i saw, rather than what they said. and it shook up more than one. theyd break down sobbing and confessing things to me and i already knew what it was and could just listen while they unburdened themselves.
in the early days we were admonished to confine our speech to 'satsang'-the 'company of truth'--either to listen to it or to speak it, and then only if moved from within to do so. chat about personal inconsequentials was actively and cruelly discouraged. the word buzzkill' comes to mind. there were an awful lot of stick-up the ass, lily white, holier than thou 'monitor' types, who unfailingly would appear in the midst of a warm, engaging , intimate moment between friends, and freeze all communion with a few choice, parsimonious words, designed to strike guilt or shame or regret or inferiority into the moment, and it was time to scurry back to work with our tongues tucked back in our throats, convince we would never be as devoted and as dedicated as so-and so who just caught us goofing off, being our natural selves.
the mind was the enemy. guru was all. every word he said was holy, perfect, infallible. he didnt 'teach' anything, he just spoke extemporaneously as the mood and thought struck him, and whatever he tossed off was deemed remarkably relevant to the exact thing you were wrestling with or occupied with in your private internal reality. he didnt plan what he said or did, he just acted on whatever whim moved him, and it was deemed to be preternaturally instructive and illuminating. when he spoke to a crowd, he just kept on rambling until, like babies at the nipples, the crowd seemed to have filled up and topped off and were sated into a stupor that would hold them awhile.

he called it 'getting rid of our confusions'.
and for a while, the spell would hold. people would become mute, and drift, or sit immobile, trying to stay with the stillness, or use it to close up and seal out the world and remain transfixed in the inner pull to meditate. but fairly soon, they would rise and begin to move about, and to talk, the the energy level would begin to get active and even hyper, as people would try to tell each other what had hapened to them, and arguments would ensue, as each one would assert that what he or she had heard was not at all what the next had understood.
we were urged and exhorted to pour all our effort into 'doing service', meaning, to turn our every labor towards 'maharaji's mission'. this mission was first presented to us as meaning to join him in bringing Knowledge to every last person on earth and thus bringng world peace in our lifetime. a noble goal. He spoke of figures in past history who supposedly were born to do this in their time and only reached a limited sector: jesus, buddha, mohammed, krishna...but he exulted in beguiling us that, now, for the first time in the history of the planet, there was means to get the message to every human being on earth, and if we would give him our all, we would be part of the most sweeping event in the history of the human race.
and we ran after the chance with all our might, such as we imagined we could.
on the face of it, it sounded possible. it sounded like a dream worth going after. and we had some indications in our own practices of the techniques and the lifestyle that maybe it could be done. we sacrificed our personal materialism to the supposed holy and sacred cause of making the mission work. who could oppose such altruistic aims? how can one feel righteous about working and saving up money to buy a pair of shoes when a barefoot man in another country still hasnt seen this wondrous, divine revelation inside of them yet? how can we rest on our laurels and feel justified that we did a good day's work, when only 20,000 people have received Knowledge in America, and maharaji's father reached six million in india???
we were led to believe that maharaji was the living embodiment of the state we glimpsed in meditation. that he WAS the light, WAS the music, WAS the nectar, WAS the Word made flesh, that he could not err. in believing he was the walking manifestation of Perfection, nothing less than the very best on earth was suitable for him. It was a profane offense of divine sensibility to present or offer anything less. and such provisions and gifts dont come cheap.
so the money that was cadged and cajoled and wheedled and guilted as being needed 'for maharaji's mission' actually went straight for maharaji's own lavish tastes. clothes. watches. cars.furnishings. the stories are legend now. this forum is loaded with them.
for a long time we found ways to rationalize the pain of all our hard work being usurped for that. but over time the insults got bigger, the rewards got smaller and the suspicions become impossible to ignore.
we were told maharaji was in a state of constant god realization. he said so. he didnt have to meditate, it was claimed. he was already there. but we, who were so polluted by the World and our minds and egos, had to constantly practice meditating and had to sever ourselves from the distractions and the false lures of the world. so we were to stop smoking, stop drugging , stop drinking, stop sex, stop eating meat, fish or eggs, stop having friends who were still 'in the world' and still did these things.
yet our profligate leader at the age of 16, married a busty blond stewardess from los angeles, rid himself of his mother and family baggage, set himself up on a clifftop in malibu with a view of the ocean and a fleet of expensive cars, and started fucking like a jackrabbit. he drank. he smoked. he drugged.he ate meat. all at our expense.
he got his wife pregnant four times, had four kids.
he got a pilots license and then wanted his own plane. he moved his global headquarters to miami for three years while a cadre of slave labor worked in substandard conditions to gold plate the toilets and custom upholster the boeing 707 that was found for him. families were torn apart. workers were run ragged into exhaustion and then dropped. others contracted cancers from exposure to toxic chemicals and were sent packing without anything to fall back on--no insurance, no pay, no savings, tossed out with nothing. At project's end, the chemicals were dumped in the biggest toxic spill ever recorded in the everglades, poisoning wildlife on a mass scale.

during this same time, maharaji got bored with his wife and told his head of staff to start setting him up with other blonde busty followers in a suite in a 4star hotel so he could fuck different bodies. it was done. he discarded them as soon as he had satisfied himself. their resultant trauma was irrelevent to him. one of his oldest mahatmas( commissioned revealers of the 4 techniques), a professor from india, had been visiting all the children's schools in the course of his global touring of communities to give Knowledge to new people waiting. He used his position of venerated trust in order to isolate himself alone with the children and to commit pedophilia upon selected innocents. when those children spoke up, and word was sent to maharaji, no action at all was taken. in fact, official letters came back posturing to have never heard of such reports, in direct denial of verbal messages that were returned by the original couriers , who said that maharaji already knew, and was relieved that it was not a new incident since he first was informed. that professor was flown out of the countries he could have been prosecuted in, and sent into amply provided retirement in india, complete with a steady supply of young boys to wait on him hand and foot to this day.

so what started out as a noble and naive ideal was perverted into a self enriching exploitation that now bears no resemblance to its former purpose. the techniques are not his property, he makes no effort to practice his own meditation, the followers are likewise perverted from purity of purpose to sheer selfish conning, and we are still sorting out what happened and whether any of it is worth keeping.

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Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 18:54:17 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: If I thought like that I'd still be a premie
Message:
If I believed that 'knowledge' was all that you seem to think it is, I'd still be a premie. I guess I'd have to suck pretty hard on my lila-flavoured pacifier but that was all in the instructions, wasn't it? No real problem there. No, if you really believe that Knowledge is as you've described you should be giving more consideration to the 'Who-am-I-to-judge-the-satguru?' philosophy. After all, do you really think for a moment ath it's impossible for the Lord to fuck with us, test us in ways we'd never imagine, etc. etc.? And what about that excellent parable about the devotee who sees his guru walking down the street drunk with a whore under each arm? Where's your faith, Janet?
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Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 22:59:57 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: i got wise, jim. that ain't god. thats a user.
Message:
if you were believing like that. then you'd just have a little different work to do to break out of the egg. and i would happily lend you the tool i used for that particular point of getting free. between all of us and whoever joins in, the pool of implements is bound to get more and more complete here.
as far as the 'how can you doubt satguru' and 'he's just testing you' movement of the cacaPHONY, the tool that freed me was the unshakeable realization that 'i am a sovereign individual, and no one may stand in judgement of me and purport to test me. i am what am. i am with myself always. you may leave at any time. if you do not like me, please feel free to leave me at once. i may not leave myself. therefore i come first, and before you, in consideration of opinion. life tests me , and you are not more than life.'
if he is testing me, then let him know I am testing him, too--AND HE'S FLUNKED.
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Date: Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 04:28:38 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: That's very poetic but ..................
Message:
If you actually believe the Knowledge has some magical spirtual potency, then you have to deal with how you got it. Either you think Maharaji gave it to you or you don't. Which is it? If the former, then you have to deal with the obvious fact that the world is far more than we can ever understand with our limited minds -- just like the guru told us a million times, by the way -- and that, most important for someone interested in 'progressing along the path of Knowledge' you are simply unable to judge the guru.

In other words, Janet, if Knowledge is real it's Turner time. And that's true despite however much you want to talk about yourself as a 'sovereign individual'. The middle ground is untenable. After all, can you say at what point you are entitled to criticize the guru? Getting drunk? How about just getting a little tipsy? Getting married? How about screwing around? See? There's no rational distinction. Either he's a satguru, a strange otherworldly phenomenon we can never understand but can only love, fear and worship or he's not. If he's got the power to reveal what you say he showed you, the first option's alive, isn't it?

Fortunately for me, I don't think Maharaji showed us anything of significance. But if I did, I don't know how I'd ever dismiss the Turner of the worlds. See my point?

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Date: Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 16:54:49 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: That's very poetic but ..................
Message:
Your right Jim. It's like what I posted to CD. 'Kind of like eating a sandwich. Sometimes you say..Damn this sandwich is good, sometimes you say..Man this sucks. Where does it come from?
You and only you. You don't decide to eat the same kind of sandwhich forever just because you had a nice experience one time, or two. The sandwich didn't give you some magical knowledge. Would people follow a sandwhich? I don't think so.
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Date: Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 01:54:33 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Amen, Janet
Message:
Before I went to the urug I hated churches, religions, priests, preachers and all other middlemen for god. How the fuck did I get suckered by the Billy Graham of bhakti yoga I don't know.

But, it's nice to feel clean and free and strong and doing it on my own and for myself.

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Date: Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 00:46:43 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Don't let it all get to you Janet....
Message:
I hope you didn't get me wrong about the novel thing. I really thought it was very cmprehensive and total..just mind bending in its volume. Very much appreciated. Since I've started asking seriouse questions here you have always returned well thought out, and well written returns to my queries. Don't stop. Thanks Janet.
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Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 06:54:49 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Cut and paste this into a Journey
Message:
You should really post this story on the journey portion of the site, or cut and paste it into a word processing program and work it up. Good job. Thanks for taking the time.

--f

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Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 10:18:43 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Francesca, Can Janet write or what?
Message:
Apparently Janet is handicapped by posting from WebTV and therefore her posts are typeset - er - eccentrically. To me she is the e.e.cummings of FV.

Janet I hope to god you are saving your writings to diskette (see above don't trust hard-drives.) You're nuts but so am I and you're the kind of nut this fruit enjoys. A tough nut.

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Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 23:05:05 (GMT)
From: janet
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: i imagine you've intimately known many nuts, too
Message:
and are quite the connoissuer in the delicacy...
=:o
thanks, Pat. compliment appreciated deeply.

actually i can typeset just fine. its just that when i get going, i dont stop for the nitpicky. it breaks m concentration. its not WebTV's fault.

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Date: Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 01:49:02 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: i imagine you've intimately known many nuts, too
Message:
You said: ''...actually i can typeset just fine. its just that when i get going, i dont stop for the nitpicky. it breaks my concentration. its not WebTV's fault.''

I thought that might be the case but I also thought I read somewhere when I first arrived here 6 weeks ago that you were blaming Web Tv for your lack of formatting.

I don't stop to fiddle with typing details when I'm writing on a roll BUT, if I'm posting a long piece, I'll usually go back nad tidy it up before submitting it as it makes it easier to read for the other guys on the forum. Just a little hint. And I hope you are saving you stuff.

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Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 21:04:04 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: I agree with Pat!
Message:
I have noticed myself, your flare for the sword Janet. Save your pieces on disk. Go out and write for a newspaper-it's your calling I think.
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Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 04:02:11 (GMT)
From: bill--make it easier for
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: us readers by using paragraphs, ect,....:)..nt
Message:
dghsdh
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Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 00:16:48 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: janet
Subject: Holy shit Janet!
Message:
See my responce to my description post. I do appreciate the novel though. Wow!
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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 12:47:30 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Straight from the yogi's mouth.
Message:
Morning Barry,

'Knowledge' is an experience.

I'll run through the four techniques and tell you what happens. (I might get the order wrong, but I don't think it makes much difference.)

1. Tiny, flickering neon-like patterns on a black background. Exactly what I was seeing after I closed my eyes, but before I pressed my eyeballs and did the technique.

2. The same sort of empty, gentle roaring sound you hear when you listen to a seashell, or place a metal bucket over your head. If you wiggle your thumbs when you listen, the sound get much louder.

3. The sound of my breath going in and out my nose, my stomach expanding and contracting, a sense of nothingness in my chest, where I'm trying to concetrate- I put this down to me having no nerves in there.

4. The Infinte taste of the Almighty Creator. It is as if the essence of every delicious meal, fruit and sweet kiss, experienced by every creature from the dawn of time, was distilled into a single drop of sticky, clear, liquid, too viscous to drip, and sort of splotted near where my nasal passage meets my throat. Yes, this must be the very 'Ambrosia' the Greek Gods discussed. Nay, the water of life itself. The fountain of liquid peace, eternally forming into small blobs in the back of my mouth. I hear Angels. I smell the scent of the blossom in the Garden of Eden. I can write no longer.

Anth the snotty.

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Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 00:19:40 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Here's a tissue!(nt)
Message:
fraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap!
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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 07:13:08 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: Did you do that research?
Message:
There is a full detailed description in the 'nuts and bolts' section.

John.

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Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 00:21:23 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Did you do that research?
Message:
I just checked that out after I posted. I guess I should explore more. Thanks John.
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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 06:53:58 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Barry
Subject: knowledge of confusion?
Message:
The knowledge of confusion, of how to become very slowly in a devotee of a very greedy guru, and for few, the knowledge of how to lose yourself enough that you commit suicide because you cannot stand the intensity of the confusion.
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Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 00:23:06 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: The smartest responce thus far!(nt)
Message:
Ya!
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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 02:53:57 (GMT)
From: Tim G
Email: |
To: Barry
Subject: The Knowledge you can't get in college
Message:
Hi Barry. It's a bunch of common meditation 'techniques' welded together with a package that reinforces their importance with a vow of secrecy (always a warning sign), blind faith in an unqualified master who inculcates the belief that he owns them and is responsible for any effects they produce and also a rather sordid Western Materialistic Cargo Cult that involves enormous expenditure of money and commitment to keep one so-called business man in a lifestyle fit for a dictator of a banana republic.
That's the longest sentence I've ever written which also tells a tale.
When people ask me 'Are you still practising' I say 'No. I think I've got the hang of it now'
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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 05:40:13 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Tim G
Subject: You are wrong matie
Message:
Knowledge is a system where one person benefits on the behalf of others. Following these princip[les

1- Misery is caused by thinking.
2- Do not think, I will think for you.
3- Having anything in the world makes you think, follow the first rule.

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Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 00:26:21 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Your both right.(nt)
Message:
jjjj
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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 23:00:58 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: Howya doin' mate?
Message:
Hi salam, how's it going? I just went down the Inactive Index.

Anth the winnee pommy curry fried chip eater, who couldn't stop his wife running away with his lawyer, and is also an imperalist pom who lectures everyone on the poofta Maharaji.

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 10:51:09 (GMT)
From: Tim G
Email: \
To: salam
Subject: You are wrong matie
Message:
It's also
1. Breath Worship
2. An excuse or encouragement to throw away your sense of social responsibility and human loving-kindness.
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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 17:33:20 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Knowledge = Devotion to Maharaji
Message:
Somewhere in the inactive posts is a comment from Michael Dettmers that Knowledge is absolute devotion to Maharaji. I couldn't find the thread so I paraphrase. But it is the most succinct and profoud definition of Knowledge I've heard.

Though Knowledge is described in physical terms as yogic techniques, the ultimate goal is devotion to M.

Be governed accordingly.

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 20:42:06 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: Barry, the fifth technique
Message:
is the tongue in cheek technique and is practiced by the guru and his closest devotees extensively. It is the corner-stone of Maharaj Jism and is revealed to rich premies in secret ceremonies by the nudge-nudge, wink-wink ritual.
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Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 00:31:15 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: No what I mean..no what I mean??(nt)
Message:
hhh
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 23:27:23 (GMT)
From: JTF
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Separated together in a bunch-more EV bull
Message:
from today's weekly propaganda sheet...sadly many will believe this since they no longer will know if it happened...EV can now announce anything it wants......

_____________________________________________________________

Knowledge horizons widen
Many people with Knowledge who attended Maharaji's events last year had the opportunity to experience at first hand the simplicity and clarity of the new Knowledge Session media. Already being widely used by the end of 2000, it is anticipated that they will become an established feature of the landscape of the realm of Knowledge during the year ahead.

Clearly, as the number of people wanting to receive Knowledge has grown, it has been increasingly difficult for Maharaji to keep up with the demand. In the early 1990's, when he began conducting Knowledge sessions himself, the numbers were relatively small. Over time, however, attendance has increased to hundreds, and in India, thousands.

To respond to this challenge, Maharaji has come up with a solution which is masterful in its simplicity and breathtaking in its potential. Using the latest in advanced digital technology, he has created a practical and effective way to teach people Knowledge as if he were there in person. This innovation carries far-reaching implications.

'After a little while of working on this project, I started to realize that, in the history of Knowledge, something like this has never been done.'

In India and Nepal – between November 10th and November 19th – 34,000 people received Knowledge via this new format. Eight sessions were held in Delhi at the Raj Vidya Kendra, (literally 'Knowledge Center') - formerly the Sri Sant Yogashram - and another three at the Katmandu Knowledge Center. For the sessions in Katmandu, Maharaji recorded the soundtrack in Nepali, so participants could hear him teach in their own language. Since then, he has also recorded Spanish and Italian versions - a feature likely to be replicated in other languages for future sessions. During the Indian Knowledge sessions, seven additional languages common to the Indus region were dubbed by translators onto the soundtrack - Tamil, Telugu, Singhalese, Kannad, Bengali, Marathi, and Orriya. Though India and Nepal saw the most widespread use of this new development last year, Knowledge sessions were also held in Miami, Los Angeles, Kuala Lumpur, Grand Baie (Mauritius), Durban and Tokyo.

The process of preparing for Knowledge remains the same. But when people are ready, they will no longer need to wait months – sometimes years – for Maharaji to travel to their part of the world. Knowledge sessions will now be available to them at more frequent intervals. Not only will people be able to receive Knowledge more easily, private sessions will also be available for the housebound or hospitalized. And people who cannot afford to travel will not be left out. Maharaji's latest innovation allows for every size of Knowledge session, from thousands at a time, to a handful - or even just one.

'It has been very, very inspiring for me to work on this project. I’m not going to call it a ‘video’, because it’s not a video, and it’s not a DVD. It’ll be something very unique when it’s done. But the possibilities! All of a sudden the whole horizon has expanded, if that’s at all possible. Because now people can receive Knowledge regardless of where they are or when they are ready. If they cannot make it to an event for some reason, they can still receive Knowledge.'

Maharaji in Marina del Rey, California, 25th March 2000

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 11:52:31 (GMT)
From: Patrick (formerly Anon)
Email: None
To: JTF
Subject: Something like this has been done before.
Message:
'After a little while of working on this project, I started to realize that, in the history of Knowledge, something like this has never been done.'....Maharaji

I seem to recall reading in Mark Jurgensmeyer's book 'Radhasoami Reality' or on David Lane's site, that there were several fairly recent Guru's in India who used cassette recordings to inititiate distant devotees .

Anyway, it comes as no surprise that Maharaji sees himself as the vanguard of a new age of high tech propagation by using the latest media.

I agree with LA Ex that the DVD is undoubtedly going to be almost instantaneously bootlegged which will be quite an interesting outcome. As far as I'm concerned anything which cheapens the price of the meditation techniques (which is presumably what this DVD will be partly revealing) is not an unwelcome thing since I judge the price Maharaji charges is too high.

I think Maharaji capitalises on that principle of advertising which relies on people thinking that because something is so difficult to get and so expensive that it must be all the more of rare and great value.

It's interesting to consider that the meditation techniques are of course, something that no-one could sensibly claim was their own property and sue over sole distribution rights.

The only way that Maharaji preserves his sole distributor status (amongst premies) is by persuading them that it is a secret that they are honour-bound to keep private.

Of course, in the past Mahraji used more archaic methods to make us keep his secrets. I.e. with intimations that we would go to Hell if we revealed the techniques etc.

Now it's getting more like a 'members only' domain.

So it's fascinating to see how Maharaji adapts and changes his business plan to todays market , so that he can hang on to the control of information and the minds and purse-strings of his clients.

I am glad that the technology that Maharaji is using to continue his 'work' also heralds an age where the fast exchange of information also makes it easier to monitor any nefarious activities and to inform people of the dangers.

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 01:19:41 (GMT)
From: Malibu Mole
Email: None
To: JTF
Subject: Can't wait til this thing gets....
Message:
bootlegged. And it will. I imagine the security is real tight on this thing. But one day, it will sneak out and hit the streets, and the info. highway.
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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 00:35:22 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: JTF
Subject: Far reaching implications/innovations my arsehole
Message:
He could've printed leaflets with the method & dropped them all over ,30 years ago .

Come to think , he did , but didn't print the techniques , the wily little bastard .

Now that teknomagick is here in all its dazzling glory , he moves , he speaks , he can give you the greatest gift by remote control ,& as long as you've paid for the kit , it's as ever free.

This one will run & run in his native land.

The masses yearning to be free , new technology & liberation , what a brew.

You've got to hand it to the guy , even though he's a gold plated motherfucker , he won't give up.

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 23:44:45 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: JTF
Subject: So what happened to the touch of a realised soul?
Message:
When I received knowledge I believed (and I wonder who created that belief?) that although it was only a Mahatma that revealed the meditation techniques to me, he was empowered by Guru Maharaj Ji to give me knowledge, and his touch switched on some inner energy source within me that meant from that time on, I was different from people without knowledge. A path was opened between me and enlightenment that could never be closed. I was saved. I was one of the chosen.

And now it can be done with a DVD.

John the disillusioned.

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 02:16:45 (GMT)
From: JTF
Email: None
To: all
Subject: A Humorous Possibility
Message:
Just suppose if they weren't properly synchronized and had a 'rawat gives K' tape in Hindi-in front of a bunch of Spanish speaking victims.....
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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 02:14:13 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Exactly!
Message:
That was a cardinal element in Maharaji's dogma. It was far from incidental. It was, in fact, the whole raison d'etre of mahatmas, Maharaji's supposedly 'surrendered' and 'realized' 'souls'.
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 23:58:50 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Just put your forehead to the video screen ....
Message:
... and you'll feel it!!!!!!

Funny after 30 years of following the 'master' no one is capable of imparting K.

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 13:56:45 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: Just put your forehead to the video screen ....
Message:
...swallow your mouse, stick your fingers in the AC outlet, and prepare to merge with the Lord!

Like the idea of bootleg 'Knowledge' too.

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 21:31:23 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: so hum meditation
Message:
Somebody named Dennis at the sathya saibaba discussion club mentions that Sai Baba use to teach the so hum meditation incorrectly! He had apparently misunderstood the Bhagavad Gita instructions in Ch.6, Verse 13, and was confused about whether the concentration should be at the beginning or end of the nose.

I don't think I have a copy of the Gita any longer at home, so I'm not sure how to do it correctly anymore. And anyway, I thought it was cheating if you did light and breath together. Does anybody know who the true Master is, so I can ask?

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 21:53:43 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: so hum meditation
Message:
He had apparently misunderstood the Bhagavad Gita instructions in Ch.6, Verse 13, and was confused about whether the concentration should be at the beginning or end of the nose.

I really have to wonder about people who think it really makes a difference, as if the magic won't happen if you don't focus just... so. I used to think like that and wondered what I was doing wrong with Knowledge where I never had an experience. God, what a mindfuck that was. Sheesh!

Does anybody know who the true Master is, so I can ask?

Funny, Way, but I have a feeling there's somebody who, in all earnestness, would just love to tell you. Let me know what he says. I'm just dying to find out, myself :)

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 20:35:18 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: It's about that 'gift'
Message:
Minimum Gift:-$800

- for the Amaroo event.

Knowledge? well, that's supposed to be a gift too.
Guess how much?

(only smarties have the answer)

.
.
.

M's favourite line has to be about how 'it's inside of you'.

So it's inside of everyone? Yes?

(premie has to answer 'yes')
.
.
.

Why do we need M then?

Presumably to show us where inside?

(premie has to answer 'yes')

.
.
.

How does he show people?

On a DVD?

(premie has to answer 'yes')

.
.
.

So why can't this DVD be shared freely with the whole world?

(premie has to answer 'don't know' )

.
.
.

- it must be because Maharaji doesn't want to be left out of the equation.

What has he got to lose from allowing premies to show other people how to meditate?

Answer - just look at the lifestyle it's allowed him to live for the past few decades.

Though one day (perhaps?) he might get bored and give it away for free. Really free that is.

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 21:21:18 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: what's free? and what's NOT free about it?
Message:
From http://elanvital.news.listbot.com/cgi-bin/subscriber?Act=view_message&list_id=elanvital.news&msg_num=85&start_num='

Maharaji says:

the apex of this life is the gift of the breath that
comes in and goes out, that makes us capable
of seeing, capable of enjoying'.

Yup that's one humdinger of a gift.


But is or is not M implying that it's HIS gift to give?

He's not? Then just what IS he implying by this word 'gift'?

EV goes on to quote him thus:

'This breath you don't have to pump and you don't have to throw
switches and you don't have to look at gauges, and you don't
have to push circuit breakers, and you don't have to go to a
school. It comes and it goes beautifully. What a bargain. It goes
where you go - tomatoes don't. Where you go, it goes. What a
bargain it is, and you don't recognize it.
'

Again, it appears that the Maha is implying that, simply by suggesting that we enjoy breathing, somehow he's to be credited, and more, that we somehow owe him a debt of gratitude for just suggesting that.

The techniques of 'Knowledge' really are no big deal. If they were THAT valuable to the human race, why don't premies initiate (if that's the right word) other people? The only answer can be: 'Because M forbids it'. What's he got to lose?

If the 'Knowledge' could really benefit the human race (that's all of us, BTW) why isn't it as free as, say baptism to a Christian?

Hmmmm?

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 19:38:43 (GMT)
From: Curious
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Mike Finches Posts
Message:
Dear All,

I'm still trying to find Mike Finches posts in the archives.

Can anyone help me out there? His posts need to be put on Jeans site along with Mike Dettmers don't you think?

I haven't seen them yet but I know he was quite a V.I.P. in the old days.

Did he give any light on M's deviances?

For inquiring minds like mine. Plese let me have some answers.

Thanks,

C.

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 13:29:46 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Curious
Subject: Mike Finches Posts
Message:
Hi Curious,

In one way, it seemed to me Mike almost 'fell onto the forum accidently'. I know he'd been lurking for a while, but one day, when a post mentioned him, he responded.

I don't think he realised what floodgates he'd be opening. He responded to people's questions, and very honestly, told us which questions he was having difficulty dealing with.

I think lots of stuff got sparked off inside him, and it was almost like he began to leave the cult and cult thinking before our eyes. Although, from his own perspective, he'd already been leaving for a long time. (I relate to this, you start to leave long before you step out.)

I know through my own experience, and through the experience of several long-time premies who I'm communicating with, that when things begin to unravel for you, and your 'Cult thinking patterns' begin to break down, it is a time of turmoil for a while. The impression I got from Mike's posts, was that he was still in the middle of sorting it out for himself. It wasn't like he'd come here with revelations of crap going on in the cult. His feelings and ideas were changing, and undoubtedly still are. Mike was upfront with everyone, and it was very revealing to see how he reacted to the questions. Mikes posts are worth reading from this perspective.

His honesty was refreshing, and I hope he continues to post here.

I'm in correspondace with at least half a dozen incubating Ex-premies. They are all very sensitive about posting on the forum. I can't make any sense of it but I can remember how nervous I was the first time I posted (anonymously).

My heart beat fast. My temperature rose. I was sure 'someone would find out' and 'do something'. It was all nonsense of course, but at the time it was so real it made my throat dry.

And in the two and a half years I've been posting here, sorting out my views about Captian Rawat and his cult, I've never had a single offensive email, and only a handful of nasty posts. I have had loads of emails from people I don't know from all over the world. They send messages like, 'Blimey, I was about to join. Thanks mate.'

Agony Anth

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 18:30:39 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Anth, I'm in correspondace with at least half
Message:
a dozen incubating Ex-premies also.

You say: ''They are all very sensitive about posting on the forum. I can't make any sense of it but I can remember how nervous I was the first time I posted (anonymously).

''My heart beat fast. My temperature rose. I was sure 'someone would find out' and 'do something'. It was all nonsense of course, but at the time it was so real it made my throat dry.''

Mine won't post because they feel that their experience of exiting from the current boring non-cult church is so different from the old-timer exes who exited from the ashram cult.

They expect to shot down in flames if they so much as hint that they actually stuck it out this long because they got something out of it and do not view the entire experience as negative.

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Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 18:53:39 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Why would any of us have stuck it out?
Message:
They expect to shot down in flames if they so much as hint that they actually stuck it out this long because they got something out of it and do not view the entire experience as negative.

To repeat, why would any of us have stuck it out if it was all bad? (We can't ALL be THAT masochistic!) It's sort of like a bad marriage - it's not all black or all white.

I wrote in my Journeys entry about some of the good things about being a premie, and how it helped me come out of something worse. Other people here have said similar things.

I'd like to hear from some Knowledge-Lite people too.

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Date: Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 00:02:48 (GMT)
From: Bin Liner
Email: None
To: Pat Conlon
Subject: Ah yes ,the something out of it ones...
Message:
....I met one of those last week.

Someone with a mental illness who has improved fantastically since getting knowledge. (1996)

So can you (me) tell her that you've been involved in this shit on & off since she's been born , & that Rawat is a ruthless self server .

No ,that would be cruel.

I would like to hear some K lite stories , to find out what people who haven't been exposed to the totalitarian side of Rawat's mission in life ,make of it all.

I believe that he's a thief , but what he's stolen I haven't much clue .

All input welcome.

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 17:02:24 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Philosophy 101 (more ELK droppings)
Message:

On being me

Janice Wilson: From Baldwinsville, New York


I am realizing how much I truly want to enjoy this gift that Maharaji, Knowledge and life bring to my life.

When I become too complicated, I speedily want to do whatever it takes to get back to the real me, my heart, this connection, this feeling, where I am one whole sweet, happy being. To be centered in my heart seems to be as necessary as food and water. In fact without true joy, what is the point of living life anyway? We were all born with a happy heart and more than anything need to keep it. And at least for me the only solution when I stray is to come home again, inside.

But as well as being thirsty, I know I need to be patient and let 'the patient effort of the heart' come through for me. So sweetly. I'm learning, what a gift it is to have this lifetime with the master and Knowledge to learn from..

******************************************************

Knowledge is personal and private

Darryl Wilson, who lives in the Water Valley in the southern state of Mississippi updates his entries in this section..

The hardest thing I've ever had to tell anyone, especially those who are practicing Knowledge is that this is my Knowledge also.

Look around. You have perspective, existence. To say this Knowledge belongs to just one person means only that person has life or existence. No, I have my Knowledge; you have your Knowledge, and Maharaji has his own Knowledge. Still, the life, the energy, the Knowledge is the same.

Knowledge is a living experience. Shall I say to everyone; Knowledge is nothing, that Knowledge isn't there. No, we are all different and each has their own Knowledge expressing itself through each and every one personally, whether we are conscious of Knowledge or not.

Knowledge is a personal and private experience between you and Knowledge. Only you know what you hear, only I know what or how much I hear.

Everyone, I send this note to remind you that you have your own personal Knowledge made especially for you. Don't sell yourself short. You reading this are just as important as anyone on the planet.

How does Knowledge express itself individually? Darryl is all imprinting. This Knowledge is eternal energy passing through and expressing itself as this consciousness of yours or mine. This consciousness is the flower of Knowledge and of existence.

and:

Every new day

Every morning when I wake up, I am amazed that, 'Yes, I'm still existing and I'm still Darryl.' This energy moving through us; this consciousness, this life is always the same.

So every new morning, I rededicate my self to being a listener and a feeler; To let as much of Darryl as I can just stay out of the way. Then I can recognize those wonderful moments of clarity of mine.

But as the day goes on; all those things that separate me from Knowledge; those things that grab my attention away from Knowledge seem to happen more and more. So more and more of my dedication is just set to the side until a moment of remembrance comes.

Some days I feel I could have done better; but those opportunities are gone. There is no holding on to past moments. So this moment I rededicate myself, I recommit my self to feeling joy.

*******************************************************

Free choice

I have voluntarily
waved a white flag
before the forces of the heart,
This has freed me
from the solitary cell
of my mind.
Before my surrender,
I couldn't escape
But now I have free choice.
Both ways are open to me
I can withdraw or advance
anytime I like.

Stojan Svet
Postojna, Slovenia

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 19:01:29 (GMT)
From: Darryl says: How does
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: knowledge express itself individually?....nt
Message:
kjvfoj
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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 13:33:05 (GMT)
From: Anth says
Email: None
To: Darryl says: How does
Subject: snot hath not words, and falleth on the floor (nt)
Message:
splat
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 18:28:59 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: So, you never learn anything?
Message:
The goal is to try and try and try and to be in a needy state of mind forever then? Hmmm...

Shoot, as a premie I should have understood that I needed to be small like an ant, an endless needy person, nobody, always searching for myself, eh? Some premies who know I left the cult tell me I got to analytical and missed the main point, taht I shouldn't analize anything and to taht I say: BULSHIiiT!

I had no choice while I fell in his trap. I wasn't allowed to analize what I was doing with my life and that is simply obnoxious of his part. The truth is that maharaji doesn't explain to a new person from the begining what becoming 'his student' will be, and that is to accept concepts, in the right time, little by little, that without the 'unfolding process (brainwashing)a person would never accept. While in the trap it's so difficult to think for yourself. His words take over you.

For instance, he tells a new person in an introductory program to come and learn 'some more' to eventually understand Knowledge when in reality what happens is he engraves new concepts in a person's head in such a slow process taht the person doesn't realize how it happens and the search never ends. In fact, for me, it happened in a way that it didn't allow me to understand how it happened; it just did. I became the devotee of a guru but I got no answers, just four meditation techniques taht I could have found in any Yoga book.

He made me believe for 25 years that without him I was never going to enjoy life, that I needed his guidance to reach some 'magic state' and I became this needy person, trapped in the need for him. Guru trap. I never got what he promised!

Why does he says to a new person who hears 'his message' for the first time that she/he isn't enjoying life and that premies do? Do premies enjoy life? No! Premies are missing the opportunity of experincing a lot of beautiful human emotions and are not happy people. Robotic life equal happiness? Conditioning? The idea the guru sells that a person should want to be in a state of bliss all the time, as much as possible, in itself is unrealistic and psychologically unhealthy, because it creates inner conflicts and conflicts with the external world. It makes the acceptance of 'real' reality impossible and the trying makes people transform themselves in these pathetic human beings most premies are. Many premie may deny their lives are pathetic but nevertheless, a deep analysis of their behavior would point to that truth.

What maharaji teaches goes against the human emotions that we humans have. His teachings go against our human nature, and are masked by HIS GREEDY NEED of the premies' MONEY. It's a business. Why are emotions bad? All the emotions is what makes us human beings and to deny one of them is ultimetly to deny yourself in one way or another. Practicing his teaching is to become a confused human being because it means that a person needs to deny their true nature. All parts are good because that makes the whole, a human being.

Being a premie brought confussion and conflicts that I didn't have before meeting the guru from hell. The funny thing that comes to mind is I know, many of us know, that he allows himself to be human, to express those emotions but tells his 'students' not to have them.

I continue to read what you post Jim from ELK and I do it as 'therapy'. I left about a year a go and still feel the brainwashing is at work and I need help to erase the information my subconcious mind has gathered over those 25 years. I read because I need to see the obvious, that the state of mind of the premies/devotees posting at ELKt is in terrible shape and even if it's sad to read it's useful to me. I rememebr the hard times I had trying to understand what in the hell maharaji was talking about. The confussion and conflict were always there. I was listening to him telling me to stay and 'learn' and my guts were telling me to leave. This site gave me back my freedom.

Thanks for keep posting the garbage. Very helpful to me.

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 20:13:41 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: So, you never learn anything?
Message:
SB, you just rang a very loud and resonant bell when you said:

'He made me believe for 25 years that without him I was never going to enjoy life, that I needed his guidance to reach some 'magic state' and I became this needy person, trapped in the need for him. Guru trap.'

BTW, it's analyse (not analise) - though I feel a bit of an asshole having to mention it!

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 05:45:53 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: So, you never learn anything?
Message:
Yeah, around here a lot (learning), even English. :) Keep correcting my English please, otherwise how am I going to learn it? Thanks.

The further I get from him the clearer it becomes how he got me. Thanks god I have the ELKERS to corroborate my mistake: Nice mirror they provide, right?

Hi cq!

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 16:59:11 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: photos of Kissimmee
Message:
It's somewhat timely, since Kissimmee has been discussed here recently, that ELK's Expressions now include a post from Ronaldo Rosa that provides a few photos from Kissimmee 1979 and Marbella 1978.
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 14:30:44 (GMT)
From: romilar
Email: rockyromilar@yahoo.de
To: Everyone
Subject: prem nagar ashram 1972
Message:
switching back from amaroo-too expensive-to prem nagar 1972,
7 jumbos invaded india, premies were not encouraged to walk alone outside the ashram, i prefered roaming on my own, on one of these occasions there was an incident with a premie girl on
the ganges river. there were stepstones down to the river
bank were the indians were doing their laundry and wash themselves, with clothes on off course.
this premie girl was about to undress herself and when she was
topless the indian crowd got aggressive and started yelling at
her. i rushed down to grab her and drag her away, she didn't even know what the whole hue and cry was all about. i told her she couldn't do that in such a place. we kept strolling along
the river ganges bank in the midday heat and were kinda really
absorbed into the whole vibe and the great scenery. i don't remember her name, it mighta been jane or janet???
she was kinda small, slender, had shoulder length brownish hair
(no blonde!), but the most intruiging thing were her eyes,
really light sparkling eyes, either light blue or light green,
she was someone special, much into herself, we didn't speak much,
it felt like walking on strong acid, i didn't see her again at
the ashram during our whole stay. i saw her again tho 6 or 7
years later at either the orlando or kissemmee program one evening in one of the tents, she was selling beverages, we recognized each other, but again we didn't talk much, we were
just high on the whole vibe at the festival site.
does any woman recognize herself from the above? especially
the incident at the ganges river? she's most welcome to contact
me at my e-mail address.
or does any of the oldies amongst you maybe know who the girl
or rather woman now is?? your help is apreciated.
thanks premie or ex.premie jis.
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 19:04:34 (GMT)
From: bill--dont do it Romilar
Email: None
To: romilar
Subject: those eyes are gone...nt
Message:
;kjb
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 15:23:45 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: romilar
Subject: nice story rocky... real vintage flavor NT
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 13:18:23 (GMT)
From: Larkin
Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: The Ballad of Amaroo
Message:
The Ballad of Amaroo

An event's coming up down in eastern Australia
They're setting much store by its profit or failure
So unfreeze those assets, skip bail, jump parole
Reschedule, reprogramme, remortgage your soul
For a seat near the feet of your Lord and Creator
Who after the vids will be steaming on later
Buoyed up with Dutch courage to outline your goal
- as pewks from all nations cry 'Oui, oui! - Jawohl!

Yes, it's all going down up in Queensland this autumn
With trinkets and mugs (like the mugs who just bought ‘em)
Amazing - just four hundred bucks registration
then spare some loose change for that ‘special donation’
Plus eight hundred more for a tent near a ditch
Tho' bugs and mosquitos might cause you to itch
But if snakebite should ail thee, you won't feel a thing
'Tis a precious experience (and just a big sting..)

Amaroo, Amaroo
They’re turning the screw
To furnish the needs of Prem Pal, Satguru
Come bruces, come sheilas
The shearing's begun!
See him fleece the whole flock
In the bright morning sun..

They’ll tell you it's sultry in sunny Australia
So watch out for snakes and respiratory failure
But should you go down with a heat-stroke attack,
Don't worry, they'll soon have the shirt off your back..
'til refreshed and reborn in the makeshift canteen
You'll then get to sample the no-star cuisine
And if at this point you’re not feeling so ill
Just wait till you glance at the size of your bill..

So wear a wide hat, splash on factor 19
Stay out of the sunlight and keep your nose clean
For unseemly behaviour is not tolerated
(Except when you’re Prem or his chosen x-rated)
So while at the bar don’t get carried away
or shout ‘Bhole shri satg’rudev fatso ki jai!’
You'll be out on your ear with the lessons you've learned
When you look in the mirror you’ll see you’ve been burned..

Amaroo, Amaroo
Yes he’s summoning you!
Let us furnish His yacht
with that solid gold loo..
Come bruces, come sheilas
The shearing's begun!
He’ll fleece the damned flock,
Take the money and run..

The event's been and gone - was it such an ordeal?
Did somebody murmur they got a raw deal?
- a fistful of soundbites, some 'Happy New Breath'
'This Love..' 'This Creation..' 'This Life..' (but no death…)
And you’ve heard it before, still you’ll listen again
Provided it comes from that prince among men?
That jolliest of swagmen, his jumbucks in tow
Move over Ned Kelly – Prem Pal! - way to go!

Once felons transplanted with ricketts and scurvy
Did build a great land in a world topsy-turvy
Believe me, those founders knew not how to steal...
(But ‘it’s not about money – it’s just what you feel’..?)
Well the Daintree is heaven, Port Douglas a joy
There’s Darwin and Melbourne [Hi, Mel!] and Perth and Fitzroy
There's Cairns, Coonawarra and Woolloomooloo
But you emptied your tin out in wild Amaroo..

Amaroo, Amaroo
hear it calling to you
It’s time to get ready,
It’s time for Phase Two!
Come bruces, come sheilas
Take leave of your mind
While hope springs eternal
– right up your behind…!


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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 00:08:13 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: ‘Bhole shri satg’rudev fatso ki jai!’....KUDOS!!!
Message:
Dear Larkin,

It's so dear that your juices are flowing again.

I love it! Record it!

Love,
Cynthia

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 23:01:59 (GMT)
From: Patrick (formerly Anon)
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: The Ballad of Amaroo -Briilliant (NT)
Message:
HA HA
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 21:38:41 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Larkin
Subject: The Logo For Phase Two
Message:
The Logo For Phase Two
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 21:36:19 (GMT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: The Ballad of Amaroo
Message:
My dearest Larkin,
Looking forward to the mp3 versions of all your tunes with the help of your friends, Loaf? :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 21:55:22 (GMT)
From: larkin
Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Robyn
Subject: The Ballad of Amaroo
Message:
Thanks Robyn, you sweetie. Loaf and I will be getting together very shortly, and I think we've pretty well all the technology we need to get some stuff onto the web before long. (Hamzen's promised to help with the dance mixes, too!)

Wheee! What fun!

x larkin

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 14:13:40 (GMT)
From: Loaf
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: THIS MUST BE RECORDED !!!!
Message:
To put on the new Loaf'n'Larkin CD - The Lard of Confusion

published by revisions international

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 20:56:09 (GMT)
From: larkin
Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Loaf
Subject: Consider it a studio booking!
Message:
Damn, I can't believe I forgot to include the obvious 'shark' and 'thirst' puns...
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 13:51:31 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: BEST OF FORUM! BEST OF FORUM!!!!!!!!
Message:
I don't know how you do it, Larkin. Positively, fecking brilliant!

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 18:31:51 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: BRAVO!! BRAVO!!! n/t
Message:
'twas brillig
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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 04:02:01 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: BRAVO!! BRAVO!!! n/t
Message:
dfb
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 04:34:10 (GMT)
From: ITMA
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Just a thought
Message:
Regarding the new Amaroo event - it could be that Maharaji is going to collect all the money he can before the event and then do a runner with all the money. There may be no Amaroo event, that much is clear from reading the brochure.

Everything has to be paid for in advance with no refunds given. I could dine out at the Hilton at cheaper prices than the Fine Dining cafe and I could pay after I'd eaten too. And I bet their plaice & chips would taste better.

So there's something to think about. Maharaji may cancel the Amaroo event after all the money has come in.

Maharaji knows the writing's on the wall for his little cult and he might as well go out with one last con to extract one final revenue from the poor deluded premies. Then he can retire back to India after selling the Amaroo site (which has been payed for by the premies) and he'll make a decent profit from that too.

So premies, do you still think that Maharaji loves you?

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 03:01:54 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: WMary
Subject: Regarding Thread Below
Message:
WMary
Have not heard if you got the message below, post here that you have read my response. If it is something you can scan and email me, you can get email address from FA.
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 12:48:50 (GMT)
From: WMary
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Regarding Thread Below
Message:
I cannot scan this. I got your office address from FA and will forward it to you there. I will include my email address for you. Let me know what you think. It may not be very informative.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 20:45:07 (GMT)
From: Flea in Your Ear
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: What is ''Dun-Rite?''
Message:
I have sent emails to those of you whom I know asking you to let your email contacts know who I am. I want to be anonymous on FV in order to be a mole.

All of you sleuths out there please research ''Dun-Rite.'' I am not sure of the spelling so it could take a while to do a search on the net.

It is the company which films all of Capt Rawat's ''speeches'' and then licences them to Visions International.

Who runs it and owns it and who collects the profits? Thanks.

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 05:40:31 (GMT)
From: Tick on your ass
Email: None
To: Flea in Your Ear
Subject: Dunrite makes the videos
Message:
Dunrite Production Group is the technical arm of the Elan Vital/Visions International propoganda and marketing engine. Well naturally they will deny this, and they are in fact a separate corporation (whereas Visions is touted as an arm of Elan Vital) but the reality is they shoot, edit and produce the videos, DVDs, CDs and audio tapes.

Michael Woods is pretty much in charge, under him are Craig Weeding, Ray Belcher, John McNelly, Malcolm Daly, Marty McNichol, and a bunch of part time 'volunteers'.

As for its ownership etc, unless it is registered as a charity that information should be readily available through the usual sources.

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 06:42:09 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Tick on your ass
Subject: From Secretary of State's Website
Message:
Here's the link -- looks like it's the right one
Don't Bite Productions

Here's the info that's on there. The California Secretary of State's website has info onine for all corporations and limited partnerships. SOS link

Corporation DUNRITE PRODUCTIONS, INC.
Number: C1435503 Date Filed: 4/29/1988
Status: active
Jurisdiction: California
Mailing Address
P0 BOX 6998
THOUSAND OAKS, CA 91359
Agent for Service of Process
ALVARO PASCOTTO ESQ
1800 AVENUE OF THE STARS STE 600
LOS ANGELES, CA 90067

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 06:04:46 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Tick on your ass
Subject: Only ''Fly on the Wall'' missing. Get the RAID!
Message:
Enough with all you insects. Bug off and stop being such pests.
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 01:15:14 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Flea in Your Ear
Subject: It's A Sister Corporation Of 'Done Dirt Cheap'
Message:
And no, I've never had sex with Angus Young.

Steve

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 21:01:58 (GMT)
From: Ian Dury
Email: None
To: Flea in Your Ear
Subject: Dunrite Productions
Message:
Dunrite Productions is the LA area-based production company that creates audio, video and satellite products for Elan Vital. Dunrite Productions currently employs many of your favorite premies from the past, including Michael Woods, Willow Baker and Rich Neel.
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 00:31:57 (GMT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Ian Dury
Subject: I never had sex with Willow Baker
Message:
She wasn't into it.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 22:16:47 (GMT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Ian Dury
Subject: I tried to have sex with Rich Neel
Message:
I tried to have sex with Rich Neel, after the ashrams closed down and sex was okay again, after being forbidden for a decade, but I think Rich was really an alien and lacked sex organs. So we gave up, and Rich sang these really long longs in a minor key, which had too many words on each musical note. They were blissful. Rich is an authority on music, but not on sex, I am afraid.

I don't know what planet Rich is from, or maybe he told me and I forgot. Could it be Venus?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 21:19:46 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Ian Dury
Subject: Dunrite Productions
Message:
How much does Dunrite productions PAY people like Rich Neel, Willow Baker and Michael Woods? Are they paid decent salaries, or are they underpaid and have to live sleep on foam mats in unfurnished apartments?

Does Ira Woods work for Dunrite, or any other cult organization? I heard he was speaking at an event in Malibu this month. I guess he is still somebody important in the cult.

For those who don't know, Ira was the guy who around 1979, decided that the best way to propagate knowledge was to go to parks, set up a big picture of Maharaji on an easel, and start yelling satsang. Apparently, so he said, when he told Maharaji this, Maharaji said that was the way knowledge was going to be spread. He bagan this in Boston, and crowed about it every chance he got.

So, from then on we were all supposed to be total Hare Krishnas and go propagate in the parks with pictures. It was humiliating, let me assure you.

In DC, we would go at lunchtime to Farragut Square (Commodore Farragut was a naval captain in the Civil War, who captured New Orleans early in the War from the Confederacy), and yell and scream like truly crazed cult members. On Sunday we used to go to the Mall outside the Smithsonian and do the same thing, only this time with a protable sound system. I remember as CC, I got a permit from the Parks Department to do this. At that time, free speech was very much allowed on the Capitol Mall in DC.

Later, Maharaji apparently said derrogatory things about what Ira was doing, despite what he had said before, and the screaming in the parks program died a fortunate death.

Ira was this cab driver who became a premie and was very New York. He was, let us say, intense, neurotic, perhaps psychotic, but a die-hard devotee who preached that Maharaji was the incarnation of God. I can't imagine him getting up in front of 4 people at some dead Elan Vital event and talking about what they talk about now. Poor Ira.

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 02:52:07 (GMT)
From: Pat Conlon
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Dunrite Productions web site
Message:
There is a list of personnel on this site. I don't know any of the names but someone might.

Dunrite Productions

and

This is a subsidiary of Dunrite Productions

Ever Sound

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 22:05:55 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Re: Ira
Message:
We had a great sauna in the ashram(Kalissia ave London UK).

When Ira came he made the ashramees rip it out because he said it was spacing out.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 21:27:48 (GMT)
From: Ian Dury
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Ira Woods
Message:
Ira is still very active as head of the Instructor Team.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 21:31:36 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Ian Dury
Subject: Question -- all aging premies from the 70s
Message:
Ira goes way back to 1971 or 1972. And so does, it appears, all the other leaders of the Maharaji cult.

Can you think of any high-ranking person in the Elan Vital organization, Maharaji's organization, etc. who is NOT an aging premie fron the 70s? I mean, supposedly Maharaji has been revealing knowledge for 20 years after the 70s and there MUST be SOMEBODY. Is there? I have yet to hear or one.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 22:37:53 (GMT)
From: Aussi Ji
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Question -- all aging premies from the 70s
Message:
G,day Joe,
I have pondered this many times nyself.It would seem the mainstayers are all those who got k in the 70's.The brainwashing was a lot more full on then and that is maybe why.I also think the 70's was an era,like the sixties and there seemed to be more searchers then,more so than now perhaps?I don't know,but it interesting all the same
Cheers Aussi Ji.
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 00:54:18 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: all
Subject: and does anyone hear
Message:
of his kids telling their friends about M or bringing anyone into the cult? You'd think if they believe in the guru is great stuff they'd be so eager to tell everyone what their dad does for a living huh?
It's such an odd thing. I wonder how they do handle it?
I know of 2 or 3 kids of premie parents who received K and got into it, but the majority I know are neutral and disinterested and a few are pretty angry. And that is from a sampling of about 30 or 40 young adults early to late 20's age.
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 00:56:43 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: and does anyone hear
Message:
Selene,

Did your kids every receive knowledge? Were they ever interested?

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 01:05:55 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: hee hee no they didn't
Message:
Interestingly enough their early childhood memories are good ones, they remember the premies being fun and very loving to them. And they are right for the most part.
They were too young to see some of the shit I dealt with.
In the 80's and 90's I really only had one premie friend they were around, they were not impressed with her but were not interested much in what us old farts were doing.
These days they are neutral and, like I mentioned, disinterested.

But don't you wonder about M's kids social life?
Hi my dad's an accountant for the stars, my dad IS a movie star, uh, MY dad is a meditation teacher (?)

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 23:11:25 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Aussi Ji
Subject: Question -- all aging premies from the 70s
Message:
It seems that either:

1. The cult only trusts premies from the 70s, who underneath it all still have the programming that Maharaji is God. I really think most premies from the 70s who are still involved believe this.

2. Most of the people who have received knowledge in the past 10 years or so have left, or are so minimally involved that they wouldn't dream of being in the cult organization. Also, if they did, they might question the fawning reverence for the 'master.'

I mean it really is remarkable that the cult is basically the same people, although a lot fewer, that were involved 20 years ago that that the 'new' people aren't allowed to run things.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 21:48:48 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Flea
Subject: Dun-Rite people are paid reasonably well...
Message:
.. from what I've heard and is self-supporting as well as a cash cow for Hisself.

It's a spin-off of Shri Hans Productions a.k.a. 'SHIP' a.k.a. Elan Vital based in Thousand Jokes, I mean Thousand Oaks, CA. The idea was to legitamize the media production deal and get more income via commercial projects. This has not happened as 'The Client' always has them scrambling to create more and more projects for him.

Funny anectdote about Dun-Rite. Some time ago I was asked to do a small project for them. In the course of talking about it I mentioned that a certain supplier I used did things to industry standards. The elitist reply was that 'we do things better than industry standards.' Couldn't prove it by me from the looks of those mediocre product brochures and grainy videos they put out. Typical lowest bidder quality. But there is a strongly held belief that because it's for him, it has to be better.

Second antectdote. Approval of the thing I was working on was held up until SHE got back from India or somewhere. Anyone doing these types of projects are used to Maharaji being referred to as The Client or Him or He - for confidentiality. But I'd never heard SHE used this way. When I asked whom SHE was, I was told sort of incredulously - 'Monica of course'.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 23:17:54 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: Dun-Rite people are paid reasonably well...
Message:
Were you paid for the 'small project' you did for them?

Yes, the stuff looks pretty cheesy. The videos look very amatuerish, shaky, etc. The sound isn't all that good either, from what I have seen.

Also, a lot of the Elan Vital publications seem to be style over substance. They have this cheap looking flourish, and then there isn't any content. Kind of like Maharaji, come to think of it.

So, are you talking about Monica Lewis? I didn't realize that Maharaji's mistress works for Dunrite. Is that right? Did you talk to her about your project? Does Marilyn ever invite her over to the res for tea? Do Maharaji's kids call her 'mom?'

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 00:50:03 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Monica, Dun-Rite, Tea Parties
Message:
Joe,

Answering your questions:

I was paid nominally. Funny how I felt uncomfortable charging at all even though it was clear that Dun-Rite / Visions was for profit.

Yes, SHE was Monica Lewis. Apparently she had a 'position' similar to what Michael Woods used to do - video / photography coordinator. Michael had become the Visions / Dun-Rite Cheeus Maximus.

I have no idea whether Monica and Marolyn share scone recipes and bedroom tips - somehow I doubt it, though.

Joe, up above you assert: 'The cult only trusts premies from the 70s, who underneath it all still have the programming...'
This struck a gong with me. The work I did for Dun-Rite/Visions was maybe 5 years ago but I recall at the time wondering why they were calling me. I hadn't been plugged into 'service' for years and weren't there any new, enthusiastic PWK's with my skills? I suppose, because I was an oldy-moldy they felt I had 'understanding' or maybe I'd be an easier pushover.

The whole experience of trying to work with that hopelessly constricted organization made me vow 'never again'. It was clear that everyone was terrified of committing to sign-off on anything - so they were waiting for HER to do it.

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 09:27:18 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: 70's premies creating false impressions on FAQs
Message:
Thanks for that, Postie. If the majority of people in charge of EV and the related corps are '70's vintage premies, that makes the EV FAQ's all the more disgustingly disingenuous. They were there and saw the whole show -- the crowns, the darshan, the songs, the satsang -- and undoubtedly some of these same people were responsible for perpetuating and reinforcing the God image way back when.

This is very, very twisted. I wonder what it is like to be a non-premie spouse, partner or child to one of these people. Do they practice this same kind of denial with their friends and family? Is obfuscate speak the way they communicate with everyone? This sounds like mental health problem territory to me.

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 17:34:13 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: 70's premies creating false impressions on FAQs
Message:
You said: 'Do they practice this same kind of denial with their friends and family? Is obfuscate speak the way they communicate with everyone? This sounds like mental health problem territory to me.'

Both my partner and I are 70's era so we've been there. Recently, some friends who dabble in meditation, yoga, Ram Dass, herb, etc were chatting about teachers and we started telling them about our past. I started out calling it 'a practice', 'a meditation' and Maharaji 'a teacher' and then it all seemed foolish to mince words. We ended up showing them a 25th anniversary retrospective video then an old Holi video from the Orange Bowl complete with Jarre sound track. I figured why not cut to the chase - that IS what it was all about for me. Well, Holi totally blew their mind and they were interested in going but then I had to tell them it's not like that now. It felt so much better to tell the truth (unsychronized) than to hand them some card with a time and place on it. I told them - it is a path of devotion plain and simple but clothed in a sanitized wrapper.

Postie of many colors

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 17:41:52 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Postie
Subject: 70's premies creating false impressions on FAQs
Message:
So Postie, I'm not intending to be mean here, it sounds as though you started out with some obfuscate-speak with your friends and then made certain that they understood that the group was something other than its outward appearances? Is that correct? Did you sort of fall back into your prior lexicon in describing EV, then catch yourself when your friends expressed interest?

Thanks for these posts, Marianne

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 17:50:24 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: 70's premies creating false impressions on FAQs
Message:
Well, I thought I made it clear that we began with obfiscate-speak then realized how false and shallow that was so we just told it from our own personal point of view. What a novel approach, eh? Tell the truth as you see it.

It became clear that our friends were excited about the obviuos bhakti expression of Holi but not in the sanitized version.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 21:44:02 (GMT)
From: Ian Dury
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Question -- all aging premies from the 70s
Message:
Good question, Joe, I'll get back to you on this later this evening, after a little staff research!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 20:21:18 (GMT)
From: Ulf
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Atlantic city conf. 20. 12 76
Message:
Old tapes from my basement:

Atlantic city conf, questens and answers:

M is mindfucking some poor cordinaters, from
U.S.A and some from Canada.
Its from the time when premies want to get back to the ashrams
it really show how fucked up we where.
I feelt sick after listening to it.

If someone wants to publish this tape on the forum , please
leave your e mail.

Also i have a sound track from a picture where M is talking
about Divine United org, after the speaking comes some India
music. Anyone know the titlle of this picture? i dont think
it is:Who is GM ?

Also a long long long satsang of Milky from 74 on tape

its from a big box where i got a lot of old tapes,(satsang of M)
magazines ,(and it is divine - elanvital) , music, ect.ect.
Let me know if there is something you are looking for.?

Ulf


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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 22:44:43 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Ulf
Subject: Get a sound-file onto the web ASAP!!!! Please!!!
Message:
There are people here with the appropriate technology!
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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 20:52:37 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: joger02@aol.com
To: Ulf
Subject: I would LOVE to hear that Atlantic City tape
Message:
I would also be happy to transcribe it for the website and return it to you when I'm done. I have included my email address.
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 18:25:27 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: planetqwerty@postmaster.co.uk
To: Joe
Subject: I'll split the task with you Joe
Message:
if Ulf (or yourself) makes a copy of the tape, how about you transcribe the first half, and I'll do the second?

email address above if you think it's a good idea.

PS - how long is the spiel?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 15:57:44 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Everything reg Amaroo
Message:
You'll need to visualise this document with Acrobater Reader installed on your PC or Mac.

Fine dinner in Amaroo

I like page 12. Doesn't show the menu though ....

And allow some time for your browser to upload the 12 page (157 Kb) document.

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 18:14:45 (GMT)
From: Been There
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: The Cook Blew His Lid
Message:

Fine Dining is where last year (Gail) was called a liar and a hief (not in so many words) and reduced to tears by the cook... she was accused of stealing food. What kind of vibes was that cook puttinginto the food? What are they going to pay $1,500 for? Bad energy?

That experience was the final straw for Gail.

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 02:54:31 (GMT)
From: bill-'&36;'1600.00 for
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: 4 Dinners and 6 Lunches!....nt
Message:
dgnjfsg
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 02:55:26 (GMT)
From: bill
Email: None
To: bill-1600.00 dollars for
Subject: 4 Dinners and 6 Lunches!....nt
Message:
dfjgs
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 02:56:42 (GMT)
From: bill--1,600. dollars for
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: 4 Dinners and 6 Lunches!....nt
Message:
dfjhd
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 18:28:53 (GMT)
From: Been There
Email: None
To: bill--1,600. dollars for
Subject: the Big Draw
Message:
The Big Draw (for dinners at Fine Dining) is the chance that the Lord might, just might, choose to dine there at the same time you are dining there. You might get to see Him up close.
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 19:06:38 (GMT)
From: bill--Someone I know did
Email: None
To: Been There
Subject: eat there andsaid rawat has his own dining room.nt
Message:
sdghas
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 21:24:31 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: bill
Subject: he wouldn't eat that slop (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 22:44:56 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: all
Subject: 'CANCELLATIONS BY US'
Message:
Check out this wording:

CANCELLATIONS BY US
We reserve the right to cancel your booking up to 28 days prior to departure, and assess cancellation charges as detailed above if payment of the full plan price is not reeived by the due date.

We also reserve the right to cancel the event if necessary for operational reasons, low participant numbers on a departure and for reasons beyond our control. Reasons beyond our control include, buy are not limited to, adverse weather conditions, nuclear disasters, industrial disputes, hostilities, terrorism, mechanical failures of transportation, and similar occurrences. In these circumstances we will where possible offer you a refund of all moneys saved on cancelled hotel accommodation and transport bookings.

As the price of on-site accommodation contributes towards the total set-up cost of the event a refund may not be available. We retain absolute discretion to decide the amount of any refund. Where possible suitable alternatives will be offered but we will be under no further obligation or liability thereafter. If participation in any alternative event is accepted by you any additional costs must be paid by you.


What are operational reasons? 'on a departure'?
They mention nuclear disasters (in which case we would all have much bigger problems than money problems), but what about stink bombs?
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 23:04:35 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: G
Subject: 'CANCELLATIONS BY US'
Message:
They can cancel for:

operational reasons, low participant numbers on a departure and for reasons beyond our control

So, if too few people register, they can cancel and keep the money of the people too stupid to pay early.

Other reasons 'beyond [their] control:'

The 'speaker' gets gonnorhea;

The 'speaker' doesn't feel like showing up;

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 02:11:25 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Does the forum count as 'hostilities'? (nt)
Message:
ddddd
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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 22:03:34 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Ha-ha. Even the 10 dollar parking fee makes me...
Message:
...laugh. What a ripoff. I hope people just park their car outside on the grass.... I mean it's not as though they are tight on space out there.....
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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 22:05:38 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Why is Fine Dining not Daya's Fine Dining now?
Message:
Maybe she didn't like the association of having her name on it - especially with stories like Gail's one of being treated like a slave at the last Amaroo....
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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 18:02:41 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Amarscroo
Message:
I was going to call it Amarscrew, but Amarscroo sounded so quaint. Maybe, with the introduction of the desert conditions, we should call it Kissimee-arse.

I love the onsite tent-housing deal where they change your towels every 3 days, and the event only lasts for 4. Also re the dinner, I love the fact that the Lard encourages his students to get sloshed on complementary champagne or wine. Of course, chances are that the complementary bottle is for a large table and they'll screw you at an open bar, too. But it's a good idea. With a hangover what he says will actually seem to make some sense.

Thanks for the info though, I'm afraid that at least 2 people I know are actually going to this (I am afraid to ask). They did get a satellite dish and say that they were going to go to less programs now. This one would certainly break the bank. Rawrat obviously needs to make some yacht payments, I guess.

You regular forum posters are also right in that this one seems to be the one where he pushed the envelope too far, went right over the edge. Between this site and Kissimmee-arse Amerscroo to you, many people are going to bail, or at least back off in their financial and emotional involvement in the 'church.' If they continue to meditate, at least they'll be able to get something out of it. Plus all the friends they've made.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 18:08:40 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Francesca
Subject: 'Amaroogeddon'..? nt.
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 21:13:57 (GMT)
From: Postie
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: 'Am-I-A-Ru?' nt.
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 17:39:07 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: * WE'VE * been invited!!
Message:
'ALL people who have received the techniques of Knowledge are invited to attend this event.'

If it weren't for the price we should hold them to their word and turn up en masse. Can you imagine?

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 04:28:05 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Good. I'm going
Message:
I figure that Laurie and I can make the minimum $US 1210 registration and donation, $US 2420, and we can still get five Fine Dining meals for $US 1495. That's about $US 4,000, isn't it? Airfare's another $US 3,000, say. Then there's trinkets and miscellaneous. Maybe do the whole thing for under $US 9,000? Not bad. Not bad at all.
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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 02:10:08 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You know jim....
Message:
you really kind of got to pay me a little more for my producing services!
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 20:37:39 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Jim
Subject: I'll meet you there (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 17:13:43 (GMT)
From: TED Farkel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: First TRAC Grant of 20.00 US goes to Mr.JimHeller!
Message:
Dear Mr. Heller-

I wanna encourage you and your lady to go see our Lord in Amaroo, and to sign up as quickly as possible.

After long and careful deliberation, my business associate and long time friend, Mr. Roger eDrek,and myself, have decided to open up a new division here at the TRAC in Shaft, Alabama...

Revenues are up this year, as the 'foamies' have been experiencing brisk sales at the video events, along with the new affordably priced 'Maha brews' (locally brewed here at the micro brewery) for $3.00 US....(MahaChips are also up in sales, as me and the boys like to have something to munch on during the videos)

Anyway,our new innovation,it's gonna take care of both poor premies and aspirants, and long time 'fence sitters' like yourself Mr. Heller.

We are proud to announce today the start of the 'Premie Inspirational Grant', or PIG, as my associate Mr.eDrek so fondly calls it....

We are happy to announce to you that you are hereby awarded the first 'PIG', and we will be sending you a voucher for $20.00 US to go towards ANY expense you might incur in Amaroo.

Now this here 'award' is yours to do with whatever your little ole premie heart desires(EV and the TRAC fully recognize and support personal choice and personal responsibility)...you could buy a trinket at the trinket stand, you could apply it towards parking, or towards the minimum $800.00 US 'gift', or you could combine it with your girlfriends $20.00 US grant and probably buy a bag of pretzels to munch on during Lord's satsang...

Now bout your girlfriend, Mr. Heller...

Mr.eDrek and I have argued bout this for many long hours...ya know, is she eligible or not, cos we don't really have a category for her, know what I mean? Aspirant,premie,guest..we just don't know...

My associate and I have come up with the following guideline for her:
If she would kindly write an essay, entitled 'Why I need and want to see my Lord, Mr. Shri Guru Maharaji', and keep it between 10,000-20,000 words in length, we will proudly award her a 'PIG' of $20.00 US as well...

Hope that helps ya all out, Mr. Heller..

TED Farkel
TRAC Master

You seem like one sharp dude, Mr. Heller.
You play chess?
If so, I'd like to play with ya here at the TRAC Center, when your band comes down here with Blue Aquarius this summer.
Take care, and ENJOY yer selves at Amaroo, at the toes...

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 02:13:36 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: TED Farkel
Subject: Funny funny shit!(nt)
Message:
hhh
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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 22:41:39 (GMT)
From: TD
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: I'd rather spend the money going to the Reef....
Message:
Let's face it.... For the amount of money people are going to spend to stay in a crap tent - they could have a luxurious week on the Barrier Reef staying in a five star hotel and eat lobster every day.

If they want a spiritual experience, they'd get more from going snorkelling or diving or listening to an aboriginal guy play the didge...

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 20:13:28 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: TD
Subject: Amaroo vs. scuba..? Hmm - not a lot in it..
Message:
Either way you'll be eaten by sharks ;)
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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 20:56:14 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Proposal.......
Message:
Nigel, that's very interesting, and I was thinking about the same thing.

If there is a competent ex-premie, who can stand it without getting sick, I would be willing to contribute to a fund to send somebody there, to take notes, and report back, as a representative of ex-premie.org.

I personally think it would make me ill, and although I would love to visit Australia, I would really like to visit Australia, and not some parched cult-site. So, I don't want to do it, but maybe somebody would be willing to do so.

Jim? Anth? Nigel? Anyone?

Anyhow, is anyone interesed and would anyone be willing to do this? As I said, I would donate money IN US CURRENCY no less.

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 07:42:16 (GMT)
From: Sivan/Sam
Email: -
To: Joe
Subject: i'd like holiday.....but
Message:
I've exposed myself thru rude e-mails and been taken of the rip-off list. Damn... bad timing! Dont think I would get a smart card.
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 20:33:28 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: My post below is no joke, btw...
Message:
Joe, I don't think passively listening then reporting back to this site would be the best use of an Amaroo infiltration (though certainly something to do afterwards).

I think what I'd like to do, assuming the smartcard access problem were solved, would be two main things:

(1) Smuggle in hundreds of ex-premie.org business cards and leave them in toilets and anywhere I wouldn't be noticed. Card simply reads: 'Maharaji - Revealing the truth. Visit our website!', with the EPO url in smaller type lower down.

(2) I'd think I'd also take along a pocket tape recorder and wander the site asking premies from around the world for a five minute interview. I'll say I'm producing an 'on-the-spot' Amaroo report for the Enjoyinglife site (which wouldn't be a lie, since I could send ELK my data afterwards!)

The questions would start with the easy ones:

'So how does it feel to be here?'
'How do you feel about Maharaji?'
'What wonderful things has the Master done that have affected your life personally?

Then having established a rapport, I'd move on to:

'So how do you feel about Maharaji killing a cyclist whilst driving, then switching drivers to avoid the legal consequences?'

'Did you know Maharji has a pimp to find premie women he can fuck in each city he visits round the world...?'

'How do you feel about that?'

I don't know how long it would be before I was thrown out - perhaps I wouldn't be - but since I hadn't done anything illegal, I would demand the return of my full registration etc and promise to sue EV if it wasn't forthcoming. That way my sponsors might get their cash back, possibly?

(Then there's always the megaphone + stink-bombs option whilst M's on-stage...?)

Also, TD once suggested someone could hire a sky-writing plane to write 'Maharaji is a fraud' in the clear blue skies above the site.

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 23:48:09 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: a pimp?
Message:
'Did you know Maharji has a pimp to find premie women he can fuck in each city he visits round the world...?'

Are there posts about this?

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 09:06:38 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: G
Subject: a pimp?
Message:
Well certainly Michael Dettmers' posts tell of M using first him and then others in that role, ie. providing 'introductions' with a whole series of blonde women in hotel rooms. That much is certain.

Posts from others (don't remember who) talking of the days before M was married tell of chosen mahatmas being sent ahead to cities on M's travels for similar purposes.

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 01:41:09 (GMT)
From: Barry
Email: None
To: G
Subject: I see I've started something!(nt)
Message:
Pimp up and pimp down pimp around pimp around!
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 13:24:41 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Well as it happens...
Message:
I was contemplating my next trip to Australia, and April is vacation...

But what about the smartcard registration thing?

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 13:47:30 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Well as it happens...
Message:
I'll email you about smartcards.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 17:06:56 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I'M REALLY GOBSMACKED!
Message:
This is totally fantastic (as in fantasy, dreamworld, divorced from reality)! For a single person, staying on-site, without food and transport, the minimum cost is:-

USD 1610!!!!

This is made up as follows:-

Registration:- $410
Accomodation:- $400 (reduces to $150 if sharing)

and here's the killer - on-site accomodation is only available if you make a gift (really - that's what it says!!!)

Minimum Gift:-$800

This must be his last program - last attempt to squeeze the few remaining devotees. Also, the small print says they reserve the right to cancel for various reasons including 'operational reasons'. In case of cancellation the 'gift' is not refundable, and the portion of the other costs is totally at the discretion of EV. So basically you get fuck all back when they pull the plug.

What a blatant scam!

John the gobsmacked

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 07:56:46 (GMT)
From: Sivan/Sam
Email: .
To: JHBall
Subject: they''l go ahead
Message:
I know of enough people in oz who will feel lucky to pay that.(without the international imput).
So he will reap the money. But last straw with a lot also.
It is actually starting to sound like one of the FINAL milks, as people have suggested.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 19:41:37 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Aussie Ji's Feb 13 post
Message:
Remember that Aussie Ji told us that during a conference call, local premies were outraged at the registration price. I guess whoever conducted the call must have neglected to mention the $800 'gift' too.

Who has this kind of money to burn? Captain Rawat must be buring a lot of fuel in that G5. Or is the downpayment due on the new yacht?

Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 17:04:15 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: The 800 dollar 'Gift'.
Message:
Bonjour Jean-Michel,

It's interesting to see they've added a clause that allows them to cancel the festival if not enough people show up.

Also, the 'suggested donation' if you want to sleep in the barrack tents, is $800, and you have to fill in an 'event support gift form'. Doesn't this reek of a scam?

Why isn't the money being paid to the festival organisers? Why is it a 'gift', and to prove it you fill out a form. This stinks. It's got to be to avoid paying tax.

And I wonder who the 'gift' is for?

anth the prophet of doom

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 19:16:50 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: The 800 dollar 'Gift' NO MANDATORY.
Message:
Also, the 'suggested donation' if you want to sleep in the barrack tents, is $800, and you have to fill in an 'event support gift form'. Doesn't this reek of a scam?

That isn't the way I read it. What I read was that if you stay 'on-site' you MUST make at least an $800 (US) 'contribution' to Elan Vital, in addition to paying something like $400 pr day in a fucking tent, or $1150 to say in a tent which has shorter lines for the crapper. The unmitigated, jumping up and down, gall to print something like that, let alone actually require it is just amazing.

Who is rich enough to go to this fucing rip-off event?

The other thing that is SUCH a bait and switch for the cult is the REQUIREMENT that somebody have a 'smartcard.' That particular Brave New World control mechanism was originally sold for 30 bucks to 'speed' the registration process. Now, you MUST have one to be allowed into the kindgom of heaven. What liars Elan Vital is. What an obvious attempt to make even more money, and to limit attendees to die-hard cult members who won't freak out and spill the beans when the have the kissing feet ritual. Or perhaps when they hand out the Kool Aid.

And who can afford $595 (US, of course) for two fucking dinners out in the middle of the fucking desert, that you have to pay IN ADVANCE? No matter how shitty the food, you have already paid for it, so fuck you!! And when did the cult start serving alcohol?

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 08:03:21 (GMT)
From: Sivan/Sam
Email: -
To: Joe
Subject: they sell alcolol in dining room-amaroo-nt
Message:
that was last year- it all stinks- I'm going off to enjoy my life
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 02:28:11 (GMT)
From: Brian S
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: They have to get you drunk now to numb up the pain
Message:
of getting royally buggered up the arse, this might be the only humane thing that these rip offs are doing for the victims that show up there.
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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 19:39:23 (GMT)
From: Flea in Your Ear
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: Who's rich enough to go to this fucking rip-off...
Message:
event?

Answer: Instructor Danielle Fitzpatrick.

Yesterday she told me that she was going. I asked if her wife of 7 years was going too.

Her answer: ''No, Knowledge is not for everybody.''

What I did not say because I am too polite is: ''Well I guess then the ultimate truth is not for everybody and not everybody is going to be saved. Just the rich.''

You cannot argue with someone who thinks like that.

For instance, in the ''Propagation Training Seminar'' video, Capt Rawat asks his audience of braindead devotees: ''Is this Knowledge for everyone?''

He then chuckles conspiratorially and answers his own question thus: ''I see some people nodding and some people shaking their heads.''

He then reads some inane facts and figures from a note-book but DOES NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION.

Putting aside the question of whether Capt Rawat is god or not, my question is: ''If Kowledge reveals god why is it not for everybody?''

Come off it, you stupid, irresponsible and greedy little Hindu telly-tubby televangelist.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 20:49:49 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Flea in Your Ear
Subject: This Knowledge is not for everyone.
Message:
Interesting. Did Danielle say what year Maharaji changed his mind about this? For many years he preached that knowledge was for every human being, and the only reason they don't have it is because they are confused and stupid or I guess maybe they don't have enought 'thirst' yet. But Danielle, I guess, isn't all that concerned with consistency when it comes to her master.

Isn't Danielle's partner African American? Could it be that she doesn't think knowledge is for her, and is perhaps a little turned off at how the Maharaji cult is as lilly white as it is boring?

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 21:23:52 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Joe
Subject: Not strictly lilywhite
Message:
You're right about the generally white western cult membership, but in the UK there was a very large Indian contingent at all the programmes in the late seventies. (I guess, then there's India itself...)

But I only ever saw two Afro-caribbeans (Rastafarians) who may have been premies, maybe not, at the 1986 Birmingham event. Other than that, not one.

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 23:52:49 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: US premies
Message:
The US premies have always been a good 99% white. Yes, a few East Indians here and there, but they aren't as concentrated as they are in the UK, although the high-tech industry in the Bay Area has brought in quite a number of East Indian engineers, but I don't think many of those are premies.

And even those who aren't white, the number of African Americans you could practically count on one hand. It always was a young, middle-to-upper-middle class group. Now, it's a small subset of that same group, only old.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 20:55:53 (GMT)
From: Flea in Your Ear
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: PWKs not all that concerned with consistency
Message:
You answered both of your questions accurately.

PWKs are not concerned with consistency and in fact have a special area of their brains reserved for inconsistency and illogicality.

Her partner is a very independent minded African American woman who has been to India on her own to check out Hindu ''spirituality'' and has come to her own conclusions none of which include Capt Rawat.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 18:06:48 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: 'Minimum gift'?!!! Interesting..
Message:
That sounds like they might be treading a very fine line legally.

How can you get away with stipulating a minimum amount ($800!!!) for a 'voluntary' charitable donation?

And since on-site camping is available only to those making such a gift, how can they argue this isn't, in fact, a camping charge? (and presumably declarable to the tax or charities commisioners)

It's a bit like that dodge where you are offered free beer provided you also pay to hire the glass (glass-hire charged at the price of a pint) - which is still regarded as selling alcohol under the law.

Anyone know anything about the charity regulations? In Queensland..?

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 19:19:57 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: 'Minimum gift'?!!! Interesting..
Message:
They did have an option for 'other' that was blank. Of course, they put it after the higher amount, to lead people to believe (and probably rightfully so) that they want more, not less.

They'd possibly be able to dodge the law on the fact that there is a provision for 'other.' I'll bet, however, that if someone donates $5 in lieu of $800 or more, they'll be conveniently told they've run out of onsite housing in Amerscroo.

Of course, depending upon what the law is on the dontations, any donation at all, even the 'other' could be a violation.

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 19:29:35 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Correction: My post below is wrong!
Message:
Joe and the rest of you are right: The accomodation form says:

'The minimum contribution invited is US$800 per person.
Contributions above this amount are welcomed. Your support
is greatly appreciated.'

'The minimum contribution' is already a nonsequitur. Then to say 'the minimum contribution invited' is even more absurd.

Oy vey! They say that many criminals lose the thrill and thus keep doing more and more dangerous acts. I am enjoying him pushing this so close to the edge. And then redefining the edge. He should keep it up; pretty soon he'll be catchin' air. I'd rather he self destruct. Less effort involved on our parts.

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 20:51:03 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: Correction: My post below is wrong!
Message:
I think you're quite right about pushing ever closer to the edge, Francesca (Hi - by the way!).

I notice they use the phrase 'suggested minimum' which might be their legal get-out. But I am sure there must be many situations under the law where a 'suggestion' might be reasonably interpreted as an obligation (EG., bullying in the workplace cases).

What I mean is: a 'suggestion' needs a context to mean anything, since it requires an end-goal which will be achieved if the suggestion is acted upon. In this context the only obvious goal is a camping spot. (Isn't it..?)

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 08:17:05 (GMT)
From: Sivan/Sam
Email: None
To: al
Subject: what's the bet.....
Message:
he shows in personal sits at amaroo? they pay heaps cause they think he will APPPEAR.
I bet he drives around the campsites so they feel the mo.ney was well spent
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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 00:04:32 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Also, how far away are the nearest hotels?
Message:
Is Ameroo out in the middle of nowhere where it would be considered extortion to demand $800 US for the right to a camping space on the grounds? From some of the comments I've heard, it sounds like it is.

Otherwise they can weasel out of it by saying that it's more inconvenient, but you can always stay in a hotel if you can't come up with the 'suggested' gift that would give you a right to pay for camping accomodations.

The only problem with the extortion theory is that no one has to go to the bloody event in the first place, in fact most people have to pay a king's ransom to fly there, so instead of extortion, you might say that people are of their own free will being foolish. And there's no law against that.

I am just sitting here in amazement at how far this fat pied piper has led the sheep.

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 00:37:16 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: It is amazing, isn't it?
Message:
The problem from a legal perspective that I see is that the $800 is not, and cannot be, a 'donation' or 'gift' if it is required to be able to camp on site. As you said it is essentially a camping fee, in addition to the other camping fees, depending on the tent you get.

This is a violation of the IRS rules if any of these people try to make a charitable deduction on their income taxes by saying the $800 is a charitable 'gift'. It isn't. A charitable contribution cannot be REQUIRED to get some kind of benefit as a result, like camping privileges.

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 01:08:52 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: But the IRS rules only keep them from ...
Message:
... claiming on their taxes, don't they? Can the IRS rules protect them from being suckered?

Of course, even if the premies can't claim the $800 on their taxes, what does ppRawat call those 'donations' on his?

And of course, premies are coming from many countries, and who knows what the rules are re charitable contributions under those laws? We can only hope that it is the same.

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 05:13:46 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: Francesca
Subject: But the IRS rules only keep them from ...
Message:
I don't think Elan Vital gets in trouble, at least in the USA, for calling something a donation or a gift, when it is really a charge. They can say whatever they want, really. And since they are a non-profit, none of it is taxable, because they don't have any income.

Unless there is some kind of big misrepresentation or fraud going on, I don't think Elan Vital can really get in trouble for that.

The problem would be if any of those PWKs attempted to deduct that $800 as a deduction on their income taxes. Since it isn't legally a 'donation', they can't do it. But even then, they wouldn't get in trouble unless they get audited.

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Date: Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 07:02:35 (GMT)
From: Francesca
Email: None
To: Joe
Subject: I don't know about the IRS rules but ...
Message:
... there is a plethora of laws limiting what a nonprofit can do with the money, how they can spend it, etc. I think churches get a much wider latitude though. I'm only used to your garden variety nonprofit foundations and such.

The California Attorney General's Office has a free pamphlet on nonprofits and I'm pretty sure there's stuff on churches in it. I ordered a copy for a friend who was involved in a nonprofit that was doing something funny with some of the funds. I believe EV is incorporated in California, but I could be mistaken.

--f

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 18:21:58 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Appropriate conduct is required
Message:
I love the section entitled 'Appropriate Conduct'. Attendees must behave in a proper and orderly fashion and comply with lawful directions. I think this was meant for you, Salam. Certainly not those of us with Smart Cards.

Gee, I wonder why they felt the need to include this in the brochure?

The non-reundable 'gift' sounds like extortion to me. NW Mole, I hope you ask Danielle Fredericks about this when she's in Seattle.

What a crock!

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 19:55:50 (GMT)
From: Elan Vital
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Appropriate conduct is required
Message:
Dear Marianne,

Elan Vital wishes to inform you that if you apply for a smartcard(TM), you will not be issued one, and therefore may not be admitted to Amaroo2001(TM), and if you are found using one from someone else, for the purpose of entering Amaroo2001(TM) to perform satanic rituals, including probably sacrificing endangered wildlife, Elan Vital will have its $500-dollar(US)-per-hour lawyers persecute, er, we mean prosecute you.

There is simply no way anyone as depraved as yourself could possibily be trusted to engage in appropriate conduct, which is required, lest someone start thinking Elan Vital is a cult, which it is not because it is in some ways different from a cult, like Elan Vital has not, for quite some time, engaged in satanic rituals. Also, Maharaji has not been pulled around in a flower-laden cart by PWKs, while wearing a crown and pearls over his otherwise stripped-to-the-waist body, for a number of years now.

ELAN VITAL: NOT HARBORING CHILD MOLESTORS SINCE 2000!!!

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 17:17:14 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: The prophet of Amardoom
Message:
I guess lots of premies must be on the edge ...

Too many questions!!

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Date: Thurs, Feb 15, 2001 at 17:03:35 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Incroyable nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 14:54:45 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Steve Quint
Subject: C'est vraiment incroyable-goober's a fob (nt)
Message:
he is
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Date: Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 20:30:45 (GMT)
From: Steve Quint
Email: the_avenger55@hotmail.com
To: gerry
Subject: Pig's Feet For U.S. 100 - Must Be Good nt
Message:
nt
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