Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Fri, Sep 22, 2000 at 10:21:22 (GMT)
From: Sep 11, 2000 To: Sep 21, 2000 Page: 5 Of: 5


Jim -:- Are the premies here anything more than ghosts? -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 16:04:34 (GMT)
__ JohnT -:- Hungry ghosts -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 20:28:32 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Well, I used to be a big Dead fan -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 16:07:14 (GMT)
__ __ Tonete -:- I loved your poems! -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 02:47:09 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- The great god Pan is dead? Since when? -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 18:20:15 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- Hungry Ghosts...by Joe Fisher -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:30:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ JohnT -:- Poems; Pan; and Hungry Ghosts -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 12:21:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- Poems; Pan; and Hungry Ghosts -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 18:30:35 (GMT)
__ shpassing thru -:- Who ya gonna call? -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 19:43:14 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Hey, hand this man a clerical collar! -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 04:25:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- No, that should be cervical collar, Jim (nt) -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 01:36:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ shp -:- Your tongue betrays you. -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 12:34:29 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Hey, buster, about that quote 'golden calf' of the -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 20:03:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ shp -:- that quote 'golden calf' of the rational mind. -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 20:36:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- the idea of a mindless pilot ... -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 17:53:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ shp -:- gotta trust that Force, Lukey baby. -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 18:37:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- the force of brainwashing, you mean? (nt) -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 19:00:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- What do you think? -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 00:58:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- that's brainwashing for you! -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 20:30:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- What a sublimely, beautifully stupid post! -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 04:30:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Another round for my 'buddy' over here.... -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 12:42:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- 'Practising enlightenment' -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:40:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- 'Practising enlightenment' -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 16:42:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- You're the one with all the concepts, Sandy -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 15:01:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Only a concept if you think it and don't live it. -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 15:40:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Shut up, you stupid religious ninnie! -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 15:59:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Another Scotch? It's Friday, you abusive asshole. -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 23:26:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Fact is, shp, no one wants u here, plain n simple -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 23:47:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- I'd venture that alot of folks wouldn't miss you. -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 00:36:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Don't u wnt a place where u can talk freely, shp? -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 02:46:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- I speak pretty freely everywhere I go. -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 13:44:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- That's not what I asked you, shp -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 14:25:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- I'm the premie and you are the one-trick pony! -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 15:57:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- How miserably evasive, shp! -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 16:06:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- No evasion - I gotcha and you are squirming. -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 16:35:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You are SOOOOO stupid, shp! -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 16:48:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Don't sully yourself with the likes of me then. -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 17:35:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Every post of yours has at least one gem -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 17:52:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Who is saying what to whom? Italics, please (nt) -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 14:25:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Oh, there you are, cq...we were having a chat and -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 16:30:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Shp offers a private sermon to brother Chris -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 16:52:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bones -:- Gooey sweet religious slime = toad food -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 19:52:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ shp -:- Jim sits above all, judges our words as ok or not. -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 17:41:33 (GMT)
__ Agent Canine -:- Ghosts huh? -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 01:48:50 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- May I respond, Casper? -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 04:50:06 (GMT)
__ __ DP -:- Ghosts huh? -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 02:18:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ Agent Canine -:- We are all ghosts DP -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 02:36:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Forum Admin -:- Please, Dep.. -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 03:02:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Agent Canine -:- So you think I'm Deputy Dog? -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 03:14:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Forum Admin -:- Well you might as well be... -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 04:22:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- No you're right FA - I'm busted -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 12:05:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Sorry I missed you on my trip, Dog -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 14:40:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Sorry I missed you on your trip, Jim -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 21:58:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Bullshit! -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 00:42:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Speaking as something of an expert... -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 04:25:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ DP -:- I Forgot -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 02:59:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Agent Canine -:- Well exxxcuuuuse me DP!!!!! -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 03:10:20 (GMT)
__ Dreamy Premie -:- Are the premies here anything more than ghosts? -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 20:54:53 (GMT)
__ cq -:- You've frightened them all away, Jim -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 20:13:45 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Fuck off, Chris (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 03:49:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Time to order another bullet-proof vest, Jim? -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 19:08:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- I disagree -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 01:00:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- baby, you regress me -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 17:44:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- cq: I've answered you point by point -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 22:52:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- double-0 woof. Licensed to bark up the wrong tree! -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 13:01:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- To Chris the puppet - the wrong tree huh! (nt) -:- Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 02:24:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bones -:- special K -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 23:13:50 (GMT)
__ __ Bones -:- He's spotted the Vogons (nt) -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 20:29:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- And for a Klingon, what's that spell ...? -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 17:34:40 (GMT)

Yves is in his mind -:- I sent this to the National Enquire -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 15:46:33 (GMT)
__ PCH -:- excellent choice of magazine -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 18:37:05 (GMT)
__ Yves is in his mind -:- Also pointed to the press -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 16:16:42 (GMT)
__ Yves must be silenced -:- Anyone missed my previous message to the Enquire? -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 15:52:51 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- My muesli tells me you've made a small mistake -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 17:20:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ Yves must be silenced -:- Thanks for b. this to my attention -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 20:29:36 (GMT)

buzz -:- mahraji is a crap meditation teacher -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 12:01:59 (GMT)
__ Elaine -:- mahraji is a crap meditation teacher -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 16:25:05 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- too true -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 17:26:49 (GMT)
__ jondon -:- mahraji is a crap meditation teacher -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 12:33:24 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- of course, from his point of view it works fine: -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 17:54:40 (GMT)

JTF -:- Maharaji cult still is feeding frenzy for sickos -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 10:25:14 (GMT)
__ Yves is in his mind -:- Resarch on cult operation reveals... -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 15:42:01 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Biggest lowlife is at the top -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 14:26:46 (GMT)
__ jondon -:- Maharaji cult still is feeding frenzy for sickos -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 14:23:02 (GMT)

Roger eDrek -:- The Agony and Ecstasy of not being in a cult -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 04:56:22 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- Guru Puja '73; London, Alexandra Palace -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 14:26:39 (GMT)
__ Julio -:- [edited by forum admin] -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 08:39:49 (GMT)
__ __ Yves -:- I think I understood this message. -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 14:37:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- I think I understood this message. -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 17:05:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Forum Admin -:- I think I understood this message. -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 18:33:39 (GMT)

la-ex -:- don't you have better things to do than...? -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 04:32:37 (GMT)
__ Shroomananda -:- Expressing my feelings about Maharaji and his gift -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 05:59:25 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- Expressing your impulses without thought. -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 12:05:49 (GMT)
__ __ Nigel -:- Expressing your concepts about M's concepts... -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 18:15:37 (GMT)
__ __ Yves -:- Tou are a premie? Tell us... -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 14:11:34 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Bullshit -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 13:34:55 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- Question for you Shroo -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 10:14:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Shroo, come back and answer my question (nt) -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 13:07:45 (GMT)
__ __ [edited] -:- [edited] -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 09:12:05 (GMT)
__ __ ExTex -:- Expressing my feelings about Maharaji and his gift -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 07:44:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shroomananda -:- I'm working for a secret government agency to -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 08:03:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Above post shows Shroom's true colors -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 16:13:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ExTex -:- I'm working for a secret government agency to -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 08:10:03 (GMT)
__ la-ex -:- shroomie-the post above is for you! -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 04:34:03 (GMT)
__ __ la-non -:- don't know about shroomie but.... -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 05:04:30 (GMT)

Rob -:- Beneath the mask -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 02:09:21 (GMT)
__ Forum Adminstrator -:- Shroom: time for the choke collar -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 16:01:48 (GMT)
__ __ Tonette -:- About time.....Thank God! -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 16:28:09 (GMT)
__ Oliver -:- Beneath the mask -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 04:02:41 (GMT)
__ __ Rob -:- Beneath the mask (guaranteed shroom-free) -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 04:07:48 (GMT)
__ Shroomananda -:- Why don't you include the posts I was responding -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:00:13 (GMT)
__ __ Rob -:- Why didn't you just follow her advice? -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:21:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ Shroomananda -:- I thought you weren't reading my posts, Rob? -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:27:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Rob -:- It's not about me, Mike, its about you NT -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:37:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Posture all you want...Still time for you to go -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:32:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ u turn me on -:- Posture all you want.. -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 09:40:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shroomananda -:- Posture all you want...Still time for you to go -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:43:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Posture all you want...Still time for you to go -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 07:35:14 (GMT)
__ __ Tonette -:- Time for you to go. -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:07:29 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- It's obvious. -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 02:31:18 (GMT)
__ Helen -:- Beneath the mask -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 02:29:35 (GMT)
__ __ Sara -:- cheap hotel sex -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:19:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ anonymous ex-premie -:- cheap hotel sex ... how many have you booked for? -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 20:14:16 (GMT)

jondon -:- Amaroo-On taking a dump -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 01:53:24 (GMT)
__ Oliver -:- Amaroo-On taking a dump -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 02:35:02 (GMT)
__ __ jondon -:- Amaroo-On taking a dump -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 02:51:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ Oliver -:- Amaroo Water -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:53:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- Amaroo Water -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 13:52:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- There's no effluent. -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:10:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- There's no effluent. -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 13:05:36 (GMT)

jondon -:- This just in........Visions International -:- Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 21:20:15 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Are you serious, Jondon? -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 01:37:44 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Thanks, Jim -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 15:46:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Thanks, Jer -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 16:09:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- You're welcome -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 16:18:12 (GMT)
__ __ An admirer -:- I love you nt -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:35:39 (GMT)
__ __ jondon -:- Are you serious, Jondon? -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 01:55:24 (GMT)
__ Elaine -:- This just in........Visions International -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 00:50:47 (GMT)
__ __ jondon` -:- This just in........Visions International -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 01:27:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ Elaine -:- Thanks, plus update on a new premie... -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 16:33:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Thanks, plus update on a new premie... -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 17:41:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Absolutely zero,influence,BTW -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 13:29:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Absolute flatuluence, BTW -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 18:21:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Absolute flatuluence, BTW -:- Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 00:07:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JohnT -:- Thanks, gerry. Good deconstruction of Elaine (NT) -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 11:50:21 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- This just in........Visions International -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 01:21:19 (GMT)

Steve -:- As simple as that? -:- Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 19:41:15 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- Lucifer Principle -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 16:42:05 (GMT)
__ __ From Kirkus Reviews -:- his thesis has an unfortunate potential ... -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 03:27:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- Maybe, maybe not -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 10:37:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- I agree, Jer -- and I found the book fascinating -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 14:48:09 (GMT)
__ Jesus Christ -:- As simple as that? -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 02:27:01 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- I'm afraid not -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 01:47:11 (GMT)
__ Sir David -:- It doesn't work -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 01:28:23 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- All things come ... -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 17:45:11 (GMT)
__ suchabanana -:- As simple as that? Yep, probably... -:- Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:23:11 (GMT)
__ __ Alan Jones (quote) -:- As simple as that? Yep, probably... -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 18:00:04 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- 'try and do no harm to other sentient beings, too' -:- Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:28:42 (GMT)
__ Helen -:- As simple as that? -:- Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:18:51 (GMT)
__ __ Katie -:- As simple as that? -:- Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:41:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ Helen -:- As simple as that? -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 02:09:32 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- As simple as that? -:- Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:31:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Helen -:- As simple as that? -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 02:17:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ Steve -:- don't shit on others the way you really would love -:- Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:49:18 (GMT)
__ cq -:- if only the Christian churches had listened! -:- Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:11:27 (GMT)
__ __ ExTex -:- if only the Christian churches had listened! -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 07:00:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- if only the Christian churches had listened! -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 17:26:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Cool Sites -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 03:36:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Cool Sites -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 17:50:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ non-tex -:- if only the Christian churches had listened! -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 09:35:17 (GMT)
__ __ Michael -:- if only the Christian churches had listened! -:- Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 23:10:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- if only the Christian churches had listened! -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:27:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Helen -:- advice from an alien -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 21:10:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- advice from an alien -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 04:14:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ Helen -:- if only the Christian churches had listened! -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 02:23:29 (GMT)
__ __ steve -:- if only the Christian churches had listened! -:- Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:46:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- if ... only -:- Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 17:41:13 (GMT)
__ Bones -:- Yes, but! -:- Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:11:02 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Yes, but beware of the sado-masochist! (nt) -:- Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:04:02 (GMT)
__ Yves -:- Read below (NT) -:- Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:02:36 (GMT)


Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 16:04:34 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Are the premies here anything more than ghosts?
Message:
You know, it's funny. Reading Susan's post yesterday drove home the distinction between the premies and the exes here. The exes, at least, are real people. We're interacting with the world, trying to understand the actual history and present and future circumstances of real people caught in a real situation, a cult. And, more importantly, we're actually trying to do something about it. Many of us post under our own names and even those who post anonymously share enough of their lives to make sense of themselves for others as honest-to-goodness human beings. Even anonymous exes talk openly enough about their thoughts, feelings and experiences that, talking with one of them, one knows one's talking with a living person.

Anonymous premies posting here, on the other hand, are not interested in the true circumstances of anyone or anything, past, present or future. They certainly can't interact with the world because, as we all know, they have no power to speak up outside this shameless, masked presence they have here. The only single exception I can think of was Sandford Pass (d/b/a Shp) writing EV about Jagdeo. (Needless to say, Shp didn't have the balls to follow through on their stonewalling and immediately reverted back to typical premie 'See-no-evil' stance, cutting Maharaji all sorts of unrequested and definitely unearned slack on the issue). But without any other single exception I can think of, premies cannot and will not deal with the real world here.

So, really, aren't they just like ghosts? You come home from your involvement in the world out there and you look in here to see what's going on with our interaction with the Maharaji cult. There IS a real-world interface. Susan's effort is just the latest example. And any premies that happen to be posting at the time, what of them? Aren't they just like ghosts from our past, unable to really do anything but simply there to heckle, make no sense and basically carry on in a way that any real person, any flesh and blood person in the real world, would be ashamed of?

Anyway, you get the picture. Poor, poor premies. Won't someone set them free?

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 20:28:32 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hungry ghosts
Message:
That made a lot of sense to me, Jim. Zen talks about hungry ghosts. To me it's come to mean people who are not getting sustanance from their efforts, but who respond by trying harder to make the failed approach work, rather than by rethinking their situation.

I liked your piece - and I hope you like this ...

-----

The wisest snake that grows can't help but grieve
(Though stronger, brighter in his colouring)
Familiar comfort of old tight sleeve,
Now lost, with soiled and brittle patterning.
Not worn dead skin, but inner ghosts I shed,
And in my shedding, greatest suffering;
Unwonted ghost of past illusion's dead.
No greater pain than lost awakening.
No greater joy than seeing world anew!
So for dead ghost we'll have an Irish wake
And bury him by Churchyard's poison Yew
And for his headstone this inscription make...
Here lies poor hungry ghost; the more he fed,
The more he starved; so he's most grateful dead.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 16:07:14 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Well, I used to be a big Dead fan
Message:
No, that poem's cool. I think I got it. The 'pain of lost awakening'.... that's neat. Thanks.
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 02:47:09 (GMT)
From: Tonete
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: I loved your poems!
Message:
I get the feeling that you are an old ex from the Washington, DC community? Anyway lovely poetry. Are there other ex-premies or premies on the web site I linked to from cq's post? Maybe M would hire you so you can teach him the basics of good writing. He does so want to be good at Something!
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 18:20:15 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: The great god Pan is dead? Since when?
Message:
LOVED your poem, John.

You into the Ophites?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:30:00 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Hungry Ghosts...by Joe Fisher
Message:
Yeah, that Joe Fisher, the outdoor sports writer, wrote a really great book about channeling and that was the title. Well worth checking out.
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 12:21:07 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: jtucker@dircon.co.uk
To: gerry
Subject: Poems; Pan; and Hungry Ghosts
Message:
Thanks guys,

I'm not from Washington, Tonette, I live in Brixton, London - and I've never been in the cult - not even close. My wife's a 'person with knowledge' (she calls herself the World's Worst Premie) and that's how I got interested. I'd come across the cult as a teenager when my friends and I used to call it the BLIGHT (in the Divine Light Mission days). When I married a premie, albeit the World's Worst, I started taking a greater interest, hence my involvement here.

Thanks for the book reference gerry; and thanks cq for reminding me about my poems on the Brixton Poets site. I think they were added just over a year ago. I wonder how you came across them, Chris?

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 18:30:35 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Poems; Pan; and Hungry Ghosts
Message:
FYI, John, here's how:

I went to http://www.ussc.alltheweb.com, (a GREAT search-engine, BTW) then entered the words 'wisest snake' (as per your poem) into the search window, selected search for 'the exact phrase' (as opposed to 'all/any of the words') and, lo and behold, up came this page, and on it item no. 5 was, yup, you guessed, the site referred to as 'shedding John Tucker' (strange, I'm sure they didn't mean to imply anything!)

That brought up your poem which you quote above. Then I deleted part of the site address to give only 'http://homepages.which.net/~panic.brixtonpoetry', which in turn led to my 'Pan' reference, since the site seems to be called 'Panic'.

Hola!

(easy when you know how).

Cheers,

Chris
.
.

PS
Brixton, eh?! I was in digs there (Lorne Road) for a while, about ten years ago. But too short a time to get the real feel of the place, IYKWIM (=if you know what I mean).

.
.

PPS, I was going to title this post 'my life in the bush of ghosts', but since I've never lived in Shepherd's Bush (worked there, though) and since too many of the forum's participants wouldn't have a clue as to why that particular reference, well, ... what would you have done?
.
.

Toodle pip.

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 19:43:14 (GMT)
From: shpassing thru
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Who ya gonna call?
Message:
'Anonymous premies posting here, on the other hand, are not interested in the true circumstances of anyone or anything, past, present or future. They certainly can't interact with the world because, as we all know, they have no power to speak up outside this shameless, masked presence they have here. The only single exception I can think of was Sandford Pass (d/b/a Shp) writing EV about Jagdeo.' -jheller

That's S-a-n-f-o-r-d. -shpassing thru

'(Needless to say, Shp didn't have the balls to follow through on their stonewalling and immediately reverted back to typical premie 'See-no-evil' stance, cutting Maharaji all sorts of unrequested and definitely unearned slack on the issue). But without any other single exception I can think of, premies cannot and will not deal with the real world here.' -jheller

Old bait twice chewed in your monkey trap here, bud.

There is something more going on here than the subplots you so fervently shine your lights on, subplots that seem to accompany all human affairs since the beginning of recorded history. The main theme, now that is something I'd like to see you focus on. Like I said, just passing thru and saw your use of my name to serve your vanity. Must you judge people all the time? Who made you a judge? I thought you were just a lawyer. What a burden you must carry, but you can put it down anytime and you will still be you and you can keep all your opinions. Try it, I think you'll like it.

I suggest you re-read the post about how you serve the 'golden calf' of the rational mind. I thought that was sterling, couldn't have said it better myself.

Never say never.

shpassing thru

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 04:25:10 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shpassing thru
Subject: Hey, hand this man a clerical collar!
Message:
Good preachin', shp. We missed ya, buddy.

Sorry you have to go so soon. We all could learn so much from you.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 01:36:51 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: No, that should be cervical collar, Jim (nt)
Message:
blah
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 12:34:29 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Your tongue betrays you.
Message:
Good preachin', shp. -jh

'Preach' comes from the word 'to broadcast'. I do notice how you couch your terms in what is commonly known as religious wording: 'clerical collar', 'preach', and so on. Are you some kind of frustrated cleric posing as a lawyer? Or are you trying to typecast me in such a way as to make an easy target as a 'relgious nut'? I suggest you take a walk around yourself today. -shp

We missed ya, buddy. -jh

Yeah, right. You must have poked a hole in your cheek with your tongue while typing that one! I do notice how you hide your own self within the 'we', and you demean friendship everywhere when you call me 'buddy'. I recall a previous post of yours in which you invoked the faceless 'we' in less than buddylike terms. For such a strong individual, you sure do 'wee-wee' alot in public. -shp

Sorry you have to go so soon. We all could learn so much from you. -jh

How long I stay is up to my own conduct and the discretion of the FA. 'Soon' is a relative term, but I did catch the condescending
attitude with both hands and toss it into the toxic waste bin right away. As for learning from each other, I learn something from everybody. And there you go again, 'weeing' all over the place. -shp

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 20:03:16 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: shpassing thru
Subject: Hey, buster, about that quote 'golden calf' of the
Message:
Hey, buster, about that quote 'golden calf' of the rational mind.

You're not suggesting the rational mind (ask me about it, apparently Jim thinks I've got the copyright on irrationality, judging by the number of times he's called my reasoning 'absurd') - sorry, where was I, - oh yeh, you're not suggesting that the rational mind is some sort of false god are you?

I though that was the Maha's forte?

(false god, or should I now say non-god? according to the neo-gospel of EV, that is).

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 20:36:45 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: that quote 'golden calf' of the rational mind.
Message:
I will give you one illustration to ponder instead of many words.
Kubrick's 'HAL' computer in 2001 could do alot of things and go to alot of places, but it could not take Dave where he really had to go. And although it was science fiction, let's face it. Today's science fiction is in many cases tomorrow's reality.
If you push the letters H-A-L forward one space in the alphabet, what do you get? No accident. Not that there's anything wrong with minds and computers, but they have their place, and it's not in the pilot's seat.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 17:53:49 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: the idea of a mindless pilot ...
Message:
... with no computer back-up?

You're starting to scare me, Sandy.
.
.
.

Been meditating too long again?

.
.
.
PS, I though the Maha was the pilot of your soul?
Mindless? HIM?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 18:37:57 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: gotta trust that Force, Lukey baby.
Message:
Don't tell me you haven't experienced that and how it felt so natural and normal, but totally and diametrically opposed to how we learn things in our normal educational experience, which by the way was all designed by the same folks who brought us HAL in the first place. We just gotta learn how to trust it all the time and go with it.

I have back-up that won't fail me when the power goes off. It's there for anyone who wants it.

Don't be scared. Have faith.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 19:00:12 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: the force of brainwashing, you mean? (nt)
Message:
sdfgsdfv
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 00:58:43 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: What do you think?
Message:
the force of brainwashing, you mean? -cq

I think you know the answer. -shp

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 20:30:37 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: that's brainwashing for you!
Message:
Luke Skywalker = Luke S = Lucas

By George!

Praise be to Hollywood!

(and pass the Preparation H)

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 04:30:09 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: What a sublimely, beautifully stupid post!
Message:
Good one, shp.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 12:42:32 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Another round for my 'buddy' over here....
Message:
What a sublimely, beautifully stupid post! -jh

Thank you for the opportunity to practice enlightenment by accepting your insult in the same spirit that I would accept your praise. -shp

shp wrote:
I will give you one illustration to ponder instead of many words.
Kubrick's 'HAL' computer in 2001 could do alot of things and go to alot of places, but it could not take Dave where he really had to go. And although it was science fiction, let's face it. Today's science fiction is in many cases tomorrow's reality.
If you push the letters H-A-L forward one space in the alphabet, what do you get? No accident. Not that there's anything wrong with minds and computers, but they have their place, and it's not in the pilot's seat. -shp

Good one, shp. -jh

Thank you once again for the opportunity to practice enlightenment by accepting your insult/praise in the same spirit that I would accept your praise/insult. -shp

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:40:09 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: 'Practising enlightenment'
Message:
That's just plain silly, Sandy.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 16:42:36 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: 'Practising enlightenment'
Message:
Maybe you think it is silly, but I don't.

Lao-Tzu said that thing about taking praise and blame in the same spirit. It's all a growing process without need of blow-by-blow evaluations that third chakra locked, power conscious types have a fixation about giving.

Buddha said that to attain enlightenment, existing opinions must be let go of. And Jesus said not to judge, even oneself.

If you want to improve your biceps, you do biceps exercises as provided by those who have had success at it in their own lives.

Same goes for enlightenment, as I see it.

Being observant, in possession of one's common sense, intuition and intelligence and applying them is not forfeited by letting go of opinions, in case your are thinking that is what I am suggesting here. It's the judgement thing, the good-bad thing, the silly-serious thing, that gets in the way.

So you think it's silly. That and a buck will get you a coffee.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 15:01:44 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: You're the one with all the concepts, Sandy
Message:
Jesus, Lousy tongue, Buddha, all your cartoon heros. When are you gonna dump all that crap and join the human race?
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 15:40:13 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Only a concept if you think it and don't live it.
Message:
Jesus, Lousy tongue, Buddha, all your cartoon heros. When are you gonna dump all that crap and join the human race? -gerry

I am sorry to hear that you consider these real people as cartoons. They ate, slept, shit, worked, played, lived and died. And while they were here they did something else that made them be remembered all these years. Yeah, I know there's alot of romanticizing and bastardization of their trips by those who have made a living from it, but then there's the core experience of what they said or did that for me, transcends time and space and all the attempts to 'cartoonize' what they did.

Far as I'm concerned, to have a foundation for living based on the words of any of the above-mentioned teachers qualifies one to be considered a responsible member of the human race. I also believe that a person can come to their own realizations without ever having read anything, and also be a responsible human being. I believe we are all capable of the same realizations and understanding as anyone else is.

Why are you so down on this particular group of people, gerry?
Because others came after and screwed it up? Can you imagine a world where no world teachers brought any inspired messages to humanity? The entire modern legal system is based on the ten commandments. I know it ain't perfect, but can you imagine not having it at all? I daresay things would be alot worse for people if we had no guidance at all from people who had a calling to serve mankind and be a channel for information.

So if these folks are cartoon characters to you and you deny them being members in good standing of the human race, who do you respect as knowing something worth learning about to improve the human condition?

Just curious, were you raised Catholic? That would explain the extreme negative reaction to anything even remotely related to 'religion' or 'religious figures'.

shp

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 15:59:38 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Shut up, you stupid religious ninnie!
Message:
Fuck off with your dumb-ass view of the world, Shp. No one here wants to hear another word from you and you know it. Go, imagine one of your favorite religious icons from the past and talk with him. Who knows? Maybe you can get a real nice conversation happening.
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 23:26:01 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Another Scotch? It's Friday, you abusive asshole.
Message:
Fuck off with your dumb-ass view of the world, Shp. No one here wants to hear another word from you and you know it. Go, imagine one of your favorite religious icons from the past and talk with him. Who knows? Maybe you can get a real nice conversation happening. -jh

Sharing space with you is like living in an apartment house with neighbors who think they are more important than everyone else in the building. It's not pie-in-the-sky stuff I am talking about, or anything religious. It's history, you idiot. You just use the term 'religious' to inflame the situation. It's about very real things like the energy happening right here.

I have a feeling that whatever is eating you was eating you before you ever heard of Maharaji. You can't blame him for you being an asshole, now can you?

Jesus said to bless those who curse you. I am blessing you with telling you the truth about yourself to your ugly face. What you do with it is up to you. Cheers.

shp

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 23:47:14 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Fact is, shp, no one wants u here, plain n simple
Message:
Why blame me, shp? I'm just stating the obvious truth. No one that I know of wants to hear your stupid religious garbage here. Can you think of any exceptions? Is there anyone I haven't thought of who wants to hear your stupid comic-book fairy tales about Jesus et al.? Of course not. Get lost.
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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 00:36:55 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'd venture that alot of folks wouldn't miss you.
Message:
Why blame me, shp?

I don't. Where did you come up with that diversion?

I'm just stating the obvious truth.

Spoken like a real lawyer.

No one that I know of...

Well, at least you are qualifying it. You used to just say
'no one wants you here'. Now you include '..that I know of..'
two points for humility to admit that you don't know what everybody else thinks, just the ones you 'know of'. Good for you!

..wants to hear your stupid religious garbage here.

Again with that word 'religion'. If I were half as devoted to what I am devoted to as you are to your own ego, I'd probably be realized by now. In that respect, you are more religious than I am. You just happen to worship yourself.

Can you think of any exceptions?

How much time do I have?

Is there anyone I haven't thought of who wants to hear your stupid comic-book fairy tales about Jesus et al.? Of course not.

Gee, I don't know. Who have you thought of?

Get lost.

Ouch.

Hey Jim, don't stand near any open flames. You may explode from all the gas escaping.

As for my coming and going, I prefer to pay attention to the posts of people here who have encouraged me to stick around if I feel like it and not be concerned by your hot air. You treat ex-premies the same way you are treating me and other premies if they say something you don't agree with. With you, it's not about premies or ex-premies, it's about POWER, isn't it? Come on, do I have to draw you a picture?

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 02:46:19 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Don't u wnt a place where u can talk freely, shp?
Message:
Face it, shp, this isn't the place for you and never will be. This is a group of ex-premies and you're something else. No big mystery there. I don't know why you need to drag me into this, let alone my profession. It's all just simple truth, shp, this isn't the place for you.

But wouldn't it be great if there really was a place for people like you, shp? You know, other people who liked Maharaji? ELK said they were going to start a discussion forum once they figured out how but I guess that's not happening anymore. Doesn't that just piss you off? Wouldn't you love it if ELK had a place just like this but it was 'positive' for a change? Wouldn't that be great?

So why don't you ask them what happened, shp? Why don't you urge them to get on with it like they promised?

Or, I guess if they're not going to pull it off, why don't you get together with someone like Chris Dickey and try to drum up some interest in HIS premie forum? Or maybe start one of your own? Surely the world needs at least one little place where people can discuss Maharaji and the wisdom he imparts in a positive setting. Surely YOU need that, don't you, shp? Think of all the wonderful things you could say to each other!

I mean, really, shp, you must be at least a little disappointed to see another premie site go up -- 'Appreciation', this time (when do we get 'Clarity' or 'Synchronization'? How about simply 'Event'?) -- and see that it, too, has absolutely no discussion area? Or how NONE of the premie sites, not Maharaji's, nor EV's, nor ELK, none of them, even have a feedback mechanism where you can see what questions and comments, postive or critical, are ever sent in.

And, coem to think of it, why isn't there at least some sort of public premie email phone book, sort of like the 'White Pages' here? Or how about an email list of sorts where you guys can discuss the Lord (or Never-Was-and-Never-Said-I-Was-either-Lord) as much as you want?

There's nothing, shp. Nothing at all but us. Funny, huh?

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 13:44:32 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I speak pretty freely everywhere I go.
Message:
Face it, shp, this isn't the place for you and never will be.

Who ever said I was looking for this to be 'the place for me'?

This is a group of ex-premies and you're something else. No big mystery there.

I know who's here and there are premies and ex-premies and some who never heard of all this drop in too. You visit the other sites and give your input when you are so moved, right? It's a two-way street.

I don't know why you need to drag me into this, let alone my profession. It's all just simple truth, shp, this isn't the place for you.

If you recall, I was having an exchange with someone else. I have not initiated a dialog with you since I can remember.
You are a buttinski and you misuse the verbal tools and games of your trade to get over on anyone who you disagree with. I didn't drag you anywhere, you poor victim you.

But wouldn't it be great if there really was a place for people like you, shp?

There is one. There's a place for people like you, too.

You know, other people who liked Maharaji? ELK said they were going to start a discussion forum once they figured out how but I guess that's not happening anymore. Doesn't that just piss you off?

No.

Wouldn't you love it if ELK had a place just like this but it was 'positive' for a change? Wouldn't that be great?

It could be.

So why don't you ask them what happened, shp? Why don't you urge them to get on with it like they promised?

It's not one of my priorities. Why don't you?

Or, I guess if they're not going to pull it off, why don't you get together with someone like Chris Dickey and try to drum up some interest in HIS premie forum? Or maybe start one of your own? Surely the world needs at least one little place where people can discuss Maharaji and the wisdom he imparts in a positive setting. Surely YOU need that, don't you, shp? Think of all the wonderful things you could say to each other!

Thanks for caring...

I mean, really, shp, you must be at least a little disappointed to see another premie site go up -- 'Appreciation', this time (when do we get 'Clarity' or 'Synchronization'? How about simply 'Event'?) -- and see that it, too, has absolutely no discussion area? Or how NONE of the premie sites, not Maharaji's, nor EV's, nor ELK, none of them, even have a feedback mechanism where you can see what questions and comments, postive or critical, are ever sent in.

It's not my house and I don't make the rules. By the way, you are a lousy salesman. Your technique, even presented as a farce, is really piss-poor.

And, coem to think of it, why isn't there at least some sort of public premie email phone book, sort of like the 'White Pages' here? Or how about an email list of sorts where you guys can discuss the Lord (or Never-Was-and-Never-Said-I-Was-either-Lord) as much as you want?

Why don't you make your suggestions directly to the source?

There's nothing, shp. Nothing at all but us. Funny, huh?

What's funny is that you hardly ever say 'I' or 'me', and you very often use 'us' and 'we'. That has it's positve and negative points...but in this case it feels like you are just hiding.

If you don't want to be 'dragged into it' with me anymore, here is a simple suggestion: Don't post to me or read mine ever again. Funny, huh? And simple too. I bet even you can understand it. I know this is hard for someone with megalomaniacal tendencies such as yourself to absorb, but I know you can do it. So if you really don't want to have anything to do with me, then don't. And if you do want to say something to me, then do. But don't lay your shitty little trip on me about dragging your ass into anything. Really, Jim.

Question and point of information: As I write this, it is 9:50 am Eastern Daylight Savings Time. Your post is dated today, Saturday at the following time: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 10:40:39....I thought you were on the west coast of Canada. Is there something wrong with the clock on this post or are you somewhere else? I know we tell time the same way on both sides of the border...

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 14:25:38 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: That's not what I asked you, shp
Message:
shp,

I was just making the point that it's too bad you don't have a place where you can talk the way you'd like to about Maharaji. You know this place will never be that. Yet there's no reason you couldn't have just what you wanted -- or is there?

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 15:57:56 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'm the premie and you are the one-trick pony!
Message:
jh said:
shp,
I was just making the point that it's too bad you don't have a place where you can talk the way you'd like to about Maharaji. You know this place will never be that. Yet there's no reason you couldn't have just what you wanted -- or is there?

shp says:
You try and try and try to categorize me and re-create in your image of who and what I am and all premies are, but you can't. Maybe in your head and in the heads a few weak-willed individuals
who you can control you have some clout, but there only.

I have no desire to rub salt into wounds, yours or anyone else's. When I speak of people who lived and died just like we are and will, you get upset if those wise people I speak of are of the 'religious ilk' that you so abhor. You exclude them from the human race and make them a pariah. I sincerely believe that the people I referred to who bother you so much hated religion (as practiced en masse with controllers and controlled)as much as you do and would hate being tagged as you tag them. I think you are smart enough to get my drift here. I also believe that not all ex-premies have the same negative reaction to everything you have a negative reaction to. Yet you arrogantly speak as if you are the bonafide representative for everyone present, just so much hot air. So if you cannot handle a conversation including people who have been deified by their followers down through history, if you are not intellectually capable of differentiating the teachings from the myths, I don't have to talk about them to make my points to you, and I will not burden your brain with something it cannot process.

But also, if I am talking to someone else and these matters come up in our dialog, it is not your place to butt in and blurt out your distaste or disapproval.

You make your bread arguing, and I undersand how your work can grow on you. You need to learn the art of conversation.

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 16:06:41 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: How miserably evasive, shp!
Message:
What's it take to get a straight answer out of you??
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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 16:35:29 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No evasion - I gotcha and you are squirming.
Message:
You claimed I 'dragged' you into something that you willfully jumped into with both feet and your mouth open. Eat that and maybe you'll get more.
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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 16:48:40 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: You are SOOOOO stupid, shp!
Message:
My reference to you 'dragging me into it' was about your dragging me into the discussion as an issue. Of course you never specifically called for me to post something or 'dragged' me into a discussion in any way like that. I never said you did.

You're a lummox, shp. Now go find some like-minded individuals who really want to trade Divine Superhero bubblegum cards with you. I don't think anyone here's interested.

Or am I wrong? Again, shp, who here do you think wants to hear more of shp's teaching parables based on the lives of Jesus, Buddha and Guru Maharaj Ji? Give me a name, shp, because I don't think there are any.

This simply isn't the place for you and you know it. There IS no place for you. Your devotion trip is a ghost ride. If Maharaji had his way you'd be a good little premie, send money for trinkets, personal donations to the Lord/UNlord, watch his satellite videos and maybe, once in a while, post something short, sweet and pathetic to ELK. That's what Maharaji has in store for you. All this talking is not making him happy, shp!

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 17:35:09 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Don't sully yourself with the likes of me then.
Message:
My reference to you 'dragging me into it' was about your dragging me into the discussion as an issue. Of course you never specifically called for me to post something or 'dragged' me into a discussion in any way like that. I never said you did. -jh

Well, think about it, genius. If you don't prowl the site gunning for premies and getting entangled here and there with those of us smart and strong enough to stand up to your hot air, this sort of shit won't happen to you. You are a gadfly with no other agenda but to hassle premies who come along. Drag yourself out of my face if you don't like the view.

You're a lummox, shp. Now go find some like-minded individuals who really want to trade Divine Superhero bubblegum cards with you. I don't think anyone here's interested. -jh

If a lummox premie came along who wanted to trade in their GM traders for some mint condition Hellers, you'd do business in a heartbeat. -shp

Or am I wrong? -jh

You walked right into that one! -shp

Again, shp, who here do you think wants to hear more of shp's
teaching parables based on the lives of Jesus, Buddha and Guru Maharaj Ji? Give me a name, shp, because I don't think there are any. -jh

I talk about more than what you refer to. You are the one fixated on religion, not me. I said alot of other things you just blew past and didn't respond to regarding more earthly matters. -shp

This simply isn't the place for you and you know it. There IS no place for you. Your devotion trip is a ghost ride. If Maharaji had his way you'd be a good little premie, send money for trinkets, personal donations to the Lord/UNlord, watch his satellite videos and maybe, once in a while, post something short, sweet and pathetic to ELK. That's what Maharaji has in store for you. All this talking is not making him happy, shp! -jh

So what I hear you saying is that:
1) You don't want me here and you will be nasty to keep me away.
2) You don't think paying attention to Maharaji is a good use of time.
3) You think you can read Maharaji's thoughts and know his complete agenda.

Take a minute and let me know what the pick-six lotto is for NJ this week, will ya? I could use some cash to buy trinkets.

There does not have to be a winner or loser to a conversation, but in your world there is no such thing as a conversation and every exchange has a winner and a loser. You are trained like a circus animal in a suit and your trick is you argue. Boring.

shp

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 17:52:59 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Every post of yours has at least one gem
Message:
You really are a dunce, aren't you? You actually equate my ability to guess what Maharaji wants to my ability to guess the winning lottery number?

That is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO stupid!

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 14:25:31 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Who is saying what to whom? Italics, please (nt)
Message:
quote
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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 16:30:02 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Oh, there you are, cq...we were having a chat and
Message:
were interrupted by Jim's negative commentary on my posts and you disappeared, deferring to his Jimness and just hanging out and watching the threads scroll like a soap opera. This is your life too, cq. What about it? Are you involved or just browsing thorugh life and letting any loudmouth overwhlem you?

If all that is accomplished here is exes bashing premies and premies bashing exes, it seems kind of stupid to me. Nothing gets accomplished but the creation of more ill will, which isn't
my thing at all.

Historically, in human affairs alot of shit goes down backstage. Still we go on, spinning through space on this beautifully landscaped rock of a planet, making the best of what is and reaching always for what can be. Some of us concentrate on the mistakes and others concentrate on the lessons learned from them.
With what measure you judge, you shall be judged yourself. And as you forgive those who trespass against you, so will you be forgiven for your trespasses. To me, that is the nuts and bolts of human evolution. The human race has had 2000 years to get it right and we have messed it up again and again, casting a poor light on those who have given their lives to raise human consciousness.

You might say that the last paragraph is a bunch of religious crap. We both know Jim thinks so, since he is obviously in on this thread and monitoring it like a hawk. My experience goes deeper than the words. My experience goes to the cellular and the atomic levels of my being. If I don't judge and I do forgive, my physical and all other systems function better, I sleep better, food digests better, my heart beats easier, my respiration and circulation are better. The fact that others get treated right is a by-product of doing what is best for oneself. I believe that the lessons in the Sermon on the Mount, for example, are pure selfishness, pure self-love, and how to stay in that experience. Pure selfishness and self-love is not 'bad', for only when one can truly love oneself can one love anyone else.

Like the little Chinese finger-trap, that little straw woven tube that you stick a finger in each end...the more you pull, the tighter it gets and the more caught you are. The looser you stay and the more relaxed you remain, the sooner you are free.

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 16:52:52 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: shp
Subject: Shp offers a private sermon to brother Chris
Message:
That's pretty pathetic, shp. The 'chat' you were having consisted of Chris giving you shit for being such a birdbrain. Just read his subject lines if you don't remember.

You're slime, shp. Gooey, sickly-sweet, religious slime.

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 19:52:51 (GMT)
From: Bones
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Gooey sweet religious slime = toad food
Message:
It seems the evil alien slime toad eats gooey sweet religious slime from decomposing flowers, as well as butterflies.

Take a look at this...

XCIV

They that have power to hurt, and will do none,
That do not do the thing they most do show,
Who moving others are themselves as stone,
Unmoved, cold, and to temptation slow;
They rightly do inherit heaven's graces,
And husband natures riches from expense;
They are the lords and owners of their faces,
Others but stewards of their excellence.

The summer's flower is to the summer sweet,
Though to itself it only live and die;
But if that flower with base infection meet,
The basest weed outlasts his dignity.
For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;
Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds.

William Shakespeare

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 17:41:33 (GMT)
From: shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim sits above all, judges our words as ok or not.
Message:
That's pretty pathetic, shp. The 'chat' you were having consisted of Chris giving you shit for being such a birdbrain. Just read his subject lines if you don't remember. -jh

Whatever it was, it was between two people other than yourself.
Can you grasp that concept? -shp

You're slime, shp. Gooey, sickly-sweet, religious slime. -jh

You don't know me very well. -shp

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 01:48:50 (GMT)
From: Agent Canine
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Ghosts huh?
Message:
You Jim like most people in our CULTure, are worshipping the 'golden calf' of the rational mind. Poor fools. You think you can think your way out of any predicament. Ha!

Your body is decaying this very minute! Do you know where your body will be 60 years form now? Your mind? All the wondeful facts you've collected?

You are not your thinking mind! You don't get it do you?

'Lay not up your treasures where moth and rust doth corrupt and thieves break in.' But no, you're too much of a smark aleck.

Agent Canine

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 04:50:06 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Agent Canine
Subject: May I respond, Casper?
Message:
You Jim like most people in our CULTure, are worshipping the 'golden calf' of the rational mind.

You abuse the word 'worship'. You're stuck in a religious perspective that's out of place with the world around you. And your dumb pun is old, stupid and a very poor substitute for any real thought or expression. Oh sorry, I should have said 'EXpression'. Funny, huh?

Poor fools. You think you can think your way out of any predicament. Ha!
Your body is decaying this very minute! Do you know where your body will be 60 years form now? Your mind? All the wondeful facts you've collected?

You are not your thinking mind! You don't get it do you?

'Lay not up your treasures where moth and rust doth corrupt and thieves break in.' But no, you're too much of a smark aleck.

Agent Canine

You're absolutely right. Another 40 years, I'm sure, and no more Mr. Nice Guy. But so what? Where do you think you'll be? On a plaque of lifetime members in the Maharaji cult?

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 02:18:00 (GMT)
From: DP
Email: None
To: Agent Canine
Subject: Ghosts huh?
Message:

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeekkkk!

Are you serious? This line of crap has been a joke with premie friends of mine for years.

oh well
jai sat chit anand

and of course; fuck you Jim :}

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 02:36:48 (GMT)
From: Agent Canine
Email: None
To: DP
Subject: We are all ghosts DP
Message:
Line of crap? I quoted Jesus from the Bible! The fact of the matter is that you and I won't be here in fifty years of so. We are all ghosts. That's a fact, not crap.

And what's with all this 'Fuck you Jim' nonsense. Jim is a amart guy, he's just misguided that's all, caught up in form, maya, illusion.

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 03:02:55 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: Agent Canine
Subject: Please, Dep..
Message:
We've had the health inspectors around and are having a bit of a belated spring-clean. If you're going to be 'Agent Canine' from now on so be it. Otherwise go back to the other alias and stick with it, please.

Thanks,
FA

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 03:14:59 (GMT)
From: Agent Canine
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: So you think I'm Deputy Dog?
Message:
Yeah, I heard about that guy. Apparently he was a really abusive asshole. Thank Gxd he's got Knowledge!

No, Agent Canine is somebody else.

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 04:22:19 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: Agent Canine
Subject: Well you might as well be...
Message:
I'll suss out who you are in a minute. Whatever... You're not a newcomer, so the above post to DD applies to you too.
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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 12:05:13 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: No you're right FA - I'm busted
Message:
Just thought I'd drop in to see what condition you folks were in. FA, you are far too clever for us naughty people.
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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 14:40:24 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Sorry I missed you on my trip, Dog
Message:
But I hear you finally found a job, huh?

Congratulations! Must feel good to be back to work again after all these years.

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 21:58:33 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Sorry I missed you on your trip, Jim
Message:
Finally found a job? I finally found a SALARIED job. I have been working 'all these years,' I just haven't been making a steady salary. I've been OK financially, believe me.

I wheeled and dealed for a while and now I'm back in the race, the rat race. And quite frankly, it doesn't feel all that great to be labouring away in a high-tech sweatshop. But at least the money is good and I have a large family to support. I'm probably making more than you.

I hear you failed the law exam three times before finally being accepted. Congratulations! The third time was the charm.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 00:42:37 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Bullshit!
Message:
I never failed a bar exam. Neither in California, Washington or Hawaii. There are no bar exams in B.C., just a course you take when you're articling.

Who told you otherwise?

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 04:25:02 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Forum Admin
Subject: Speaking as something of an expert...
Message:
I'd say it was Mr 'I'm going and I shan't be back' Shroomananda.

Rapid fire short questions and a particular dislike for Jim.

Ah, who gives a flying ****!!

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 02:59:42 (GMT)
From: DP
Email: None
To: Agent Canine
Subject: I Forgot
Message:
how scary some premies can be, as I try not to make any sudden moves as I exit
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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 03:10:20 (GMT)
From: Agent Canine
Email: None
To: DP
Subject: Well exxxcuuuuse me DP!!!!!
Message:
Try to interrupt the usual mob rantings of this site, and this the thanks I get!

Think I'll head off to Gregpix.

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 20:54:53 (GMT)
From: Dreamy Premie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Are the premies here anything more than ghosts?
Message:
Do you wish to talk with someone that considers him/herself a premie. Stuff like hopes, fears, doubts, opinions....., even if a muddlehead.?

A premie dealing everyday with the real world and all that it entails, and sure this ex-premie forum is read. The people who post here are straightforward and when on topic they talk about Maharaji. saying “we have won, because we figured out we were in a cult”.

You wish premies to come and defend themselves, defend Maharaji with their best shot, we never could. We got in to this and began a continuous conversation with ourselves. We came together not for anything smart, it was nice, the meditation and we listened to others “talking to themselves” and it was either something we could relate to or just plain stupid.

People had to leave, for many of those reasons you talk about.

Reason, I know you want to be reasonable and just want me to listen, I know your are there but its hard to hear you.

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 20:13:45 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You've frightened them all away, Jim
Message:
So, Cactus Jim,

Premies are, according to you:

'not interested in the true circumstances of anyone or anything, past, present or future'

'They certainly can't interact with the world'

and are

'just like ghosts
from our past, unable to really do anything but simply there to heckle, make no sense and
basically carry on in a way that any real person, any flesh and blood person in the real
world, would be ashamed of?'

Funny you should say that, Jim.

For a moment, I thought that description fitted YOU to a tee.


YOU were a premie, once, Jim. What is it? Ashamed to have been one?

Is that why you still continue (after all these years) to take apparent pleasure in shaming people (yes, people, in varying shades of 'realness') into admitting that they are as wrong as YOU WERE, in accepting Maharaji's spiel?

Ever heard of having 'sympathy for the devil'? I'm sure you have. But the devil you're painting premies as, somehow (in my humble opinion), also paints YOU in a certain light.

And, believe me, it ain't too complimentary either.

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 03:49:21 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Fuck off, Chris (nt)
Message:
ffffff
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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 19:08:00 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jim and all
Subject: Time to order another bullet-proof vest, Jim?
Message:
... get one for me, too, while you're at it

;)

.
.
.

So your 'red rag to a bull' tactic seems to have worked. You've at least resurrected one old premie - Deputy Dog, (though under a new name it seems).

Pity there's not more new premie blood to rise to your bait.

.
.
.
.

I wonder sometimes, whether you think your, ahem, 'invitations' to premies are designed to get them to enter into rational debate with you. Or is the strategy intended to inflame them to the point where they can finally reconnect with their (often long-suppressed) anger inside and so take a step toward regaining their own autonomy?

It might work, occasionally, I guess.

Unfortunately, for every premie you DO hook, there must be shoals more that take one look at this forum and shy away from the bait, vowing never to return. To use another angling term, perhaps it's only bottom-feeders like Dogfish (yes, there's bottom-feeding and bottom-feeding, if you know what I mean) who give your tactic any apparent value. (And I sure hope the Deputy isn't you in disguise, Jim. No, let me say it for you - 'Absurd', 'Ridiculous' 'don't even THINK that' .)

.
.
.
.
.

Is this the best we can do, here, Jim? Tarring all premies (which we were too, once) with the same brush?

Wouldn't this place be better served if they thought they could at least put their hearts on the line and enter into some serious dialogue about the whole guru/disciple issue? (and yes, there's more to it than just that).

Jim, have you ever considered that your apparently invulnerable (and thereby hangs a tale) confrontational/abusive manner is actually preventing current premies from encountering the many and varied issues that this site, and this forum, raise?

Think on this, please:

The more you insult them, the more likely they are to stick with the Maha.

.
.
.

Absurd?
.
.
.

Think about it.

PLEASE
.
.

.

.

PS, to Deputy Dog/Agent Canine
(or should I call you Double-o-woof?)

;)

Anyway, welcome back. Are you really the last of the premies who'd post here?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 01:00:35 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: I disagree
Message:
Sorry, Chris, but I have to ask you: why me? What'd I do? Did I tip over one of the dolls at the teddy bear's picnic? Ride my bike over the blanket? What?
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 17:44:39 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: baby, you regress me
Message:
... it'th jutht that you keep thpewing up your nathtiness over thith luvly plathe and I think it'th thow unfair.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
whathth 'regreth' mean?
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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 22:52:08 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: cq: I've answered you point by point
Message:
So your 'red rag to a bull' tactic seems to have worked. You've at least resurrected one old premie - Deputy Dog, (though under a new name it seems.

- Resurrected? I was just checking out Gregpix one night and I wondered how you guys were doing.

Pity there's not more new premie blood to rise to your bait.

- I like to think it's me who baits Jim.

I wonder sometimes, whether you think your, ahem, 'invitations' to premies are designed to get them to enter into rational debate with you. Or is the strategy intended to inflame them to the point where they can finally reconnect with their (often long-suppressed) anger inside and so take a step toward regaining their own autonomy?

- I want to reconnect with something but it's not my anger. I don't know maybe it's my Buddha Nature, Christ Consciousness, Gxd. I believe THAT is the source of autonomy.

It might work, occasionally, I guess.

- Well said cq.

Unfortunately, for every premie you DO hook, there must be shoals more that take one look at this forum and shy away from the bait, vowing never to return. To use another angling term, perhaps it's only bottom-feeders like Dogfish (yes, there's bottom-feeding and bottom-feeding, if you know what I mean) who give your tactic any apparent value. (And I sure hope the Deputy isn't you in disguise, Jim. No, let me say it for you -'Absurd', 'Ridiculous' 'don't even THINK that' .)

- Deputy Dog to Dogfish, interesting connection. I don't have the energy for one with cq. I at least have the decency to use capitals.

Is this the best we can do, here, Jim? Tarring all premies (which we were too, once) with the same brush?

- Apparently so! Jim is a one trick pony.

Wouldn't this place be better served if they thought they could at least put their hearts on the line and enter into some serious dialogue about the whole guru/disciple issue? (and yes, there's more to it than just that).

- I actually tried that.

Jim, have you ever considered that your apparently invulnerable (and thereby hangs a tale) confrontational/abusive manner is actually preventing current premies from encountering the many and varied issues that this site, and this forum, raise?
Think on this, please:

- Hey, are you DISSING Jim? Watch it pal!

The more you insult them, the more likely they are to stick with the Maha.

- Maybe it has everything to do with the fact that I value Knowledge. Maybe I stick with the Maha because he is one of the few people in the world (others are Ram Dass, Alan Watts, Joseph Goldstein) who encourages me to keep on keeping on.

Absurd?,

- Not at all cq, at least you care.

Think about it.

- Don't think he will. IMO, Jim is too far gone to be rational about M or K.

PS, to Deputy Dog/Agent Canine
(or should I call you Double-o-woof?) ;) Anyway, welcome back. Are you really the last of the premies who'd post here?

- Thanks cq. I don't know if I'm 'back.' Like I said, I had finished with the Gregpix site, and was wondering how the exes were doing, so I stopped by.

- I've always been interested in religion. Sooner or later, one lifetime or another, one way or another, we will get home. And when we get home, we will realize that we have always been God. That we created our separateness for sport.

- No cq, I'm putting my money on the Spirit. I'm loyal and I will always stick with Knowledge.

- Excellent note though cq. I'm glad I dropped by.

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 13:01:42 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: double-0 woof. Licensed to bark up the wrong tree!
Message:
You say you ' ...want to reconnect with something but it's not my anger. I don't know maybe it's my Buddha Nature, Christ Consciousness, Gxd. I believe THAT is the source of autonomy.'

Dep, dependency on ANYTHING or anyONE implies the loss of autonomy, doen't it? And if there's one thing that M's trip involves, it's the loss of one's independence.

Your loyalty (as you call it) to the 'Knowledge' and hence (for some reason) to the Maha, could easily stem from an unwillingness to re-evaluate M's reasons for touting the 'Knowledge'.

It's OK to re-evaluate, y'know. In fact, it could be a really big help in finding your autonomy again. Just sticking with a belief-system because it's the one you've ascribed to for so long can get very stultifying - leads to 'cobwebs in the consciousness', if you know what I mean.

But keep on keeping on, (with or without relying on other people's encouragement, as suits you).

Regards,

Chris

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Date: Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 02:24:46 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: To Chris the puppet - the wrong tree huh! (nt)
Message:
To be protected follow your heart.
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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 23:13:50 (GMT)
From: Bones
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: special K
Message:
Try this,
special K

Think of a religion you don't like (X?) if it helps to drink.

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 20:29:28 (GMT)
From: Bones
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: He's spotted the Vogons (nt)
Message:
hmmm.
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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 17:34:40 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Bones
Subject: And for a Klingon, what's that spell ...?
Message:
...instant death? don't tell me it's worse than that?

Of course it is.

It's the Mitch and Bone Zone.


(PS Mitch and Bone = Bitch and Moan, as in 'complain' geddit?)


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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 15:46:33 (GMT)
From: Yves is in his mind
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: I sent this to the National Enquire
Message:
letters@nationalenquirer.com
Since I sent you the attached message a few days ago, something came-up which fostered my conviction some big-time scandal is about to burst open.

In my last message, I mentioned something about an aide which was suspected of being a rapist and a pedophile. One of the victims posted a letter she recently sent her former guru and the answer she received about it. You'll find attached a copy of her post on the forum, a discussion group you'll find on the web at:

http://www.ex-premie.org/forum5/main.cgi

In a nutshell, the story is this: in 1977, mister Jagdeo, some 'priest' in this cult abuses children. Susan Haupt a then 15 years old devotee of the guru is victim of the abuser. She's also witness of other events and aware Jagdeo is an active pedophile wherever he is sent around the world. She reports it twice but Jagdeo remains in place. Now 38 years old, she recently sneaks a letter directly to Guru Maharaji and receives a troubling answer from some 'Board-of-directors' of the cult.

In another occurence which took place in 1974 Tribinanand another such 'priest' also abused women. The story was silenced by cult organization and only after he raped a young woman in Regina, Canada, was he wisked back to India. This other story, still unknown to many, is about to come-out.

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 18:37:05 (GMT)
From: PCH
Email: None
To: Yves is in his mind
Subject: excellent choice of magazine
Message:
it will fit right in, between alien abduction and Oprah Winfreh losing 400 pounds
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 16:16:42 (GMT)
From: Yves is in his mind
Email: None
To: Yves is in his mind
Subject: Also pointed to the press
Message:
Here can be found more information about sexual abuses in Maharaji' cult

http://www.geocities.com/notmaharaji/Truth/Abuse/abuse.htm
---------------------------------------------
I also sent this to my favourite tabloid. Stay tuned. Some story is about to be revealed by Jim.

Jim! Are you there?

You'll love it. It is complete with rape, abuse, cover-up, lies and... Wait a second please.

Jim! We are waiting for you. Would you please hurry.

Now, Let me introduce to you Jim. (Applause) Take it away Jim.

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 15:52:51 (GMT)
From: Yves must be silenced
Email: None
To: Yves is in his mind
Subject: Anyone missed my previous message to the Enquire?
Message:
Guru Maharaj ji had it big during the 70's and 80's. In 1973, his organization rented the Huston Astrodome for an extravaganza they claimed was 'The most significant event in the history of mankind'. See the video about the event

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00001OX01/o/qid=968250633/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_v_1_3/102-5741595-6330552

Short time after a family quarrel had religious business split between brothers in India and child guru.

Guru (born dec, 10 1957) is now filthy rich, pilots his own jet and lives in Malibu mansion. Since the early 70's he managed to dodge media.

http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/lear55.htm

http://ex-premie.org/pages/malibu.htm

Since, former devotees have founded many web sites to lampoon former God as scandals popped out of the woodworks.

http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Chateau/7204/homepage.htm

http://ex-premie.org/index.htm

http://ex-premie.org/pages/links.htm

http://www.oz.net/~drek/dance_dirty.html

One allegation concerns an aide involved in sex with minors has never was pursued but educated rumors has the abused preparing a day in court when former living god will be interrogated.

http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/jagdeo.htm

Hidden in the Guru's organization webpage are these comments which states they never heard of what happened 25 years ago.

http://www.elanvital.org/faq_opposing_views.htm

Ex-devotees have published in a Boston daily an open letter they titled Maharaji Responsibility Campaign (MRC). In response Guru's lawyers have summoned internet providers to silence webpages where criticism was voiced under the allegation copyrights were violated. Lawyers have since stopped returning calls to clarify which copyright they claimed.
-----------------------------------------------
I bet Jim had missed it while he visited his old pal in Montréal.

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 17:20:03 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: sirdavid12@hotmail.com
To: Yves must be silenced
Subject: My muesli tells me you've made a small mistake
Message:
The small mistake is in the URL of my site which changed a few months ago since the Supreme Lord got it removed from the net.

The geocities.Paris.Chateau site was nuked by the Lord of Love so I set up another site which is at http://www.geocities.com/notmaharaji/Links/homepage.htm

From there you can access such delights as Maharaji's (unofficial) Homepage which is on its new site and also you'll find there The Truth about Maharaji which even has a Knight fighting the demons of Haharaji's cult with some dramatic background music playing.

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 20:29:36 (GMT)
From: Yves must be silenced
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Thanks for b. this to my attention
Message:
I took the liberty of sending you an email hoping for some feedback.
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 12:01:59 (GMT)
From: buzz
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: mahraji is a crap meditation teacher
Message:
he doesn,t even explain the techniques properly,just trys to
make one dependent on him.call that freedom?if he went into more detail about what the actual techniques do, or are supposed to do, then he knows his pretended importance would diminish.these techniques emphasize too much head energy anyway and one should certainly ground the energy afterwards otherwise too much spaciness would inhibit ones ability to function efficiently in
day to day life.i found this out from my own practice of them.
what mamjam really does is enslave people into his cult by restricting imformation and telling people just enough to entice them in.has that guy got some heavy karma to work out or what!!
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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 16:25:05 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: buzz
Subject: mahraji is a crap meditation teacher
Message:
buzz,
I don't have much time anymore-but, I always read your posts -thank you. And I agree.

Love,
Elaine

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 17:26:49 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: buzz
Subject: too true
Message:
And that's something premies and aspirants (or whatever they call them these days) need to know: there are many different types of meditation, and they don't have identical effects.

Although meditation can be liberating, we've seen that the four techniques are not particularly freeing when practiced under the direction of an insidiously meglomaniacal 'master.'

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 12:33:24 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: buzz
Subject: mahraji is a crap meditation teacher
Message:
buzz wrote: one should certainly ground the energy afterwards otherwise too much spaciness would inhibit ones ability to function efficiently in day to day life.

jondon replied: I have noticed that when my premie friens get involved with daily meditation and into that frenzy that accompanies M's arrival at an event that they attend, they become very spaced out around the flat and with stuff they do during the coarse of the day. Fortunately, they all take the subway to work. God knows what they do at work during this spaciness period. Right now they are not practicing meditation and have not been to a video in 2 months and they are deeply involved in their work projects and actually they are quite FUN again. They can engage in intelligent conversation. I guess this is what is known as 'in their heads'. I like them in this state. It is as though their controller has let go and allowed them to run and be free.

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 17:54:40 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: of course, from his point of view it works fine:
Message:
'all that spaced-out head energy' ...

Well, what do we do it, eh, premies? Well, let's see ... er ... we could send another donation? Yeah, that's a good idea ... where's the chequebook?

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 10:25:14 (GMT)
From: JTF
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji cult still is feeding frenzy for sickos
Message:
In this foolish cult, still operated by rawat, there exists a great opportunity for those 'premies' who are predators disguised as cult members.
The vast majority of the current members(since there have been few new victims/recruits in years)have all admitted(in the secret cult oath) that they are 'weak and ignorant...etc'. They have also been programmed to believe thru the singing of Arti that Maharaji is 'the protector of the weary and the weak'. If you were a predator, doesn't this seem like a fantastic group to trail disguised as a premie? I believe this rawat cult has a much higher population of sickos than the general population.God only knows what sick shit is still happening to the vast majority of the premies. They are not only being victimized by rawat, some are victims of sociopaths lurking within inside the cult.

Well, we have seen many examples now and in the past history of the cult that when the shit hits the fan, rawat -aka The Protector of the Weary and the Weak-is nowhere to be found. He didn't even respond to Susan's letter to him. He passed it on to his sheep.

The secrecy of rawat's cult allow for the existence of these low-lifes. Because of this rawat is responsible to a great degree!

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 15:42:01 (GMT)
From: Yves is in his mind
Email: None
To: JTF
Subject: Resarch on cult operation reveals...
Message:
Resarch on cult operation reveals the most important expense in the operation budget of a cult is legal counsel. It is certainly the case with this cult. The so-called 'board of directors' is certainly some legal counsel who took things in their hands. Given the immense damage potential the incident has, it would have been a good idea to have the 'master' sign their letter and make-believe he was the one who wrote it. Fatty made another public relations mistake. I'd like to sit on his 'board of directors'.

Imagine this. This is supposed to be a cult based on an intimate relationship between Rawat-the-master-and his grace and a premie-sitting-under-the-tap. What we discover here is some organization lead by a 'board of directors' we don't know anything about. All we can do is imagine who's on it. When something with such damage potential as this occurs, look who took the call. If I were them, I'd worry.

I'll send an email to the National Enquire about this.

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 14:26:46 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: JTF
Subject: Biggest lowlife is at the top
Message:
The fact that Rawat didn't reply to Susan's personal letter and just passed it on casually to the board of directors (did he ever even read it?) shows plain enough that Rawat is a ***t.

I wouldn't even bother trying to communicate with such a lowlife as Rawat.

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 14:23:02 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: JTF
Subject: Maharaji cult still is feeding frenzy for sickos
Message:
One of the premie friends of my premie roommate is a 50 year old single guy. He is always 'introducing' new potential aspirants to M and the videos. They are always young (20's) and good looking girls. Obviously soul searching when they happen upon him. My premie friends laugh at this and think it is funny and cute. I know the guy is in it for the free, young babes. Kinda keeps his ego massaged. And he has been in the premie thing since the early 70's. He often tells stories of cheating around with women, and men, in the Ashrams he lived in. Definite Sicko.
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 04:56:22 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Everyone
Subject: The Agony and Ecstasy of not being in a cult
Message:
More Pictures from Yves. Thanks, this is good stuff.

Agony and Ecstasy - Small 37 k

Agony and Ecstasy - Bigger and Slower at 190 k

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 14:26:39 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Guru Puja '73; London, Alexandra Palace
Message:
Alexandra Palace (Known as Ally Pally) is an old hall in London's suburbs with wood floor where rock concert are held. These pictures are from a book I purchased around 1979. It describes well the feeling then.
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 08:39:49 (GMT)
From: Julio
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: [edited by forum admin]
Message:
[edited by forum admin. Basic housekeeping]
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 14:37:42 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Julio
Subject: I think I understood this message.
Message:
Let me submit my explanation.

I think someone made a list of expression he read in the forum and objects to because he judges them grammatically incorrect.

If I'm correct in my understanding, I'd like to point to this person he can't expect the quality of language in a 'chat room' such as this one (I know it is not exactly a chat room, but whatever) to be as grammatically correct as you'd expect in other media. There are valid reasons for this and these are well documented elsewhere.

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 17:05:01 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Yves
Subject: I think I understood this message.
Message:
I think Julio calls this poetry. Whatever. I've seen better. I also think this is somebody we've seen before, only I can't recall her moniker from her last incarnation here on ex-premie.org.
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 18:33:39 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: I think I understood this message.
Message:
'Julio' is about our most frequently-deleted poster - with a new alias for every post. But always the same inimicable style.
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 04:32:37 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Shroomie
Subject: don't you have better things to do than...?
Message:
Hey shroomie-just a couple of questions for you, my friend...
1-if your lord and master,m, says not to come to this site, as it will confuse you, why do you come here?Are you disobeying 'agya'?Isn't this bad for you?
2-if good ole s,s&m, or the present day incarnation of inspiration,participation and practice, are so great, why would you waste this precious moment of life here at EPO, in the depths of mind and maya?Wouldn't it be better spent in serving the lord,telling others about his glorious k,or cleaning one of his toilets?
You see, for us, it's a different story.We believe m is a fraud, and that followers are brainwashed robots.We enjoy being here, because it can be a healing, cathartic experience for us as we let go of m's horseshit.We also feel that this site exposes many of m's lies and deceptions, and rejoice in the fact that it leads many premies and aspirants away from m's deceptions..
But you?Why are you here?What's the pay off for you?
I'm serious...what's the real story, for you...Why do you come here?
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 05:59:25 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Expressing my feelings about Maharaji and his gift
Message:
of Knowledge is enjoyable to me. I love a captive audience. Especially an audience where I can get a lively discussion going.

Yeah, I do Satsang, Service and Meditation. Not 24 hours a day, however. Maharaji never told me not to visit here. Did he tell you not to visit here?

As far as why I'm here, I've explained it in my previous posts. Read the archives or speak to Rob. He's collected all my posts. He's the 'ex' premie expert on Shroomananda around here. I feel so honored by his efforts. However pathetic they may be.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 12:05:49 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Expressing your impulses without thought.
Message:
of Knowledge is enjoyable to me. I love a captive audience. Especially an audience where I can get a lively discussion going.

Check out the Usenet newsgroup rec.gardens.roses . You'll find lots of your own kind there.

--Scott

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 18:15:37 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Expressing your concepts about M's concepts...
Message:
Expressing my feelings about Maharaji and his gift of Knowledge is enjoyable to me.

But a pain in the arse for anyone reading your repetitious drivel. Anyway, 'Knowledge' is a concept, and 'gift' doubly so. Maharaji gave you nothing and took away whatever capacity you had for free thought or rational discussion.

I love a captive audience.

It's a shame you see this place as your platform rather than a place of constructive interaction. You have no understanding of, nor empathy for those you are addressing. Your 'experience' is all. Your 'experience' is, in fact, your only line of argument - and you expect anybody to be persuaded?!

I notice you can't be bothered to contrast and compare the 'experiences' of others. In that respect you indeed resemble Maharaji. You are his psychological and emotional captive.

Especially an audience where I can get a lively discussion going.

Joke, right?

Yeah, I do Satsang, Service and Meditation. Not 24 hours a day, however. Maharaji never told me not to visit here. Did he tell you not to visit here?

Summer '98. Weren't you attending events at the time?

As far as why I'm here, I've explained it in my previous posts.

Read the archives or speak to Rob. He's collected all my posts. He's the 'ex' premie expert on Shroomananda around here. I feel so honored by his efforts. However pathetic they may be.

Why do you feel honoured? All that attention you could never get in the cult?

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 14:11:34 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Tou are a premie? Tell us...
Message:
Tell us how you feel about the cover-up operation told below? If I were a premie, I'd have doubts about hyperventilation. Don't you?
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 13:34:55 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Bullshit
Message:
You just like the attention. Maharaji has nothing to do with it. If he did, you would have stopped visiting this site the moment you laid eyes on it. You're a celebrity around here and you love it. That's why you keep coming back.
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 10:14:22 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Question for you Shroo
Message:
Hi Shroo,

I've not had much chance to look in on the forum recently, but I couldn't help but notice your post claiming you like discussing your master and his 'gift'.

I've not been following your posts, but my experience tells me you'll dodge the question, but what the hell, I'm an eternal optimist (you have to be to follow Maharaji as long as I did).

Anyway, here's your starter for ten points.

I've got a book published by Divine Light Mission, called 'Eternal is He, Eternal is His Knowledge'. In the back of the book are lots of Indian poems, supposedly written by 'Saints'. One of them, describing the 'Perfect Master' goes something like this:

'I found the greatest of fortunes when I met my Satguru.
All my troubles disappeared from mind.
He has set me free from the bondage of life and death,
and saved me from the cycle of rebirth.'
Something about his lotus feet that I can't remember, then...
'Truly his importance is greater than God.'

What I'd like to know Shroo, is what do you think of the poem, particularly the last line.

I'll gladly answer any of your questions in return.

Anth (still stuck in the cycle of birth and death)

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 13:07:45 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Shroo, come back and answer my question (nt)
Message:
you said you like to talk
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 09:12:05 (GMT)
From: [edited]
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: [edited]
Message:
[auto-deleted by Forum Admin]
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 07:44:36 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Expressing my feelings about Maharaji and his gift
Message:
You are here for one of three reasons:
1- You are trying to convince yourself that you are practising knowledge.
2-You cannot resist reading our posts because in your heart you know that we are right. You deep down are starting to agree with our basic premise.
3- You are a plant from EV here to disrupt, interject 'satsang' for lost premmies and to try to win them back to your master. In this case you could be several premmies.
WHICH IS IT?
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 08:03:47 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: I'm working for a secret government agency to
Message:
promulgate conspiracy theories to dumbshits like you.
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 16:13:07 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Above post shows Shroom's true colors
Message:
Still time for you to go
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 08:10:03 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: I'm working for a secret government agency to
Message:
Come on little man...bring on the blissful satsang! Did I hit the nail on the head or what? Which of the 3 are you blissboy? You total PHONY! I don't need to prove jack-shit to anyone cuz I AM FREE! What's your problem, sonny?
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 04:34:03 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: shroomie
Subject: shroomie-the post above is for you!
Message:
Shroom-post above is for you...
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 05:04:30 (GMT)
From: la-non
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: don't know about shroomie but....
Message:
I just love kicking spiritual butt.
that's why....
You pathetic insult to a wanna bee
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 02:09:21 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Beneath the mask
Message:
Thought I'd toss in a few quotes from shroom (which I haven't read, of course) just to illustrate that, beneath the thin veneer of a blessed, enlightened, devoted pure soul, there lies the true repugnance of another cult member. Enjoy.


(To JohnT)
'F-cking toady creep who had the balls to investigate and RECEIVE Knowledge to determine it's validity and not a half-assed wannabe who never checked it out'. Loser.

I wonder what your lives would have been like if you had never heard about Knowledge or Maharaji. Many of you would have died of overdoses or been in jail or loveless marriages or careers.

He MADE you surrender to him. He MADE you give him residences. He MADE you uproot your life. He MADE you waste years of your life. GROW UP!!! Accept some of the responsibility for the decisions you made, for Christ's sake! Gripe, gripe, gripe, gripe. Ad nauseum

He doesn't charge money for Knowledge, does he? Most of you here are a bunch of sniveling whiners! Get over it!

(To Tonette)
Of course, you could always stay at home and play with yourself. That might be more satisfying in the long run. You don't work for an Escort Service, do you? If I ever get to go to Washington, I'd like somebody to accompany me to the event. And afterwards, back to the hotel. I'll even spring for dinner at a nice restaurant. Or we could call room service and eat in. I've got plenty of money for someone like you. Not that I couldn't get a date on my own. But I sometimes like to pay for it just so I don't have to take all the sass. Especially from a bitch

PS to Elan Vital: Haven't had a reply yet, am I to assume this person IS here with your blessings and represents the true nature of a follower of Maharaji?

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 16:01:48 (GMT)
From: Forum Adminstrator
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Shroom: time for the choke collar
Message:
Shroomananda,

This is a forum for EX-premies, and not your personal pulpit.

You are coming across ever more like the party gatecrasher who does nothing but complain, insults the guests from behind a series of silly masks and gets nasty at the slightest provocation.

When finally asked to leave, you beg meekly to be allowed to stay. After your last banning from the forum, you emailed the admins thus:

Are you closing the door on me or will you allow me to post occasionally? I promise not to monopolize the forum but I would like to make a comment or post a question once in a while.

Fine, we'll do more than that for you, Shroomananda From now on you may post EVERY DAY of the year - including Christmas, Easter and Hans Jayanti - but THREE POSTS ONLY per day with a combined wordcount not exceeding 1k words. Exceed this limit and the larger posts will be deleted.

We at Admin HQ share your stated intention that you will not monopolise forum discussions, and are glad to be able to help you out here.

So on these terms - plus the usual forum guidelines - your continued presence will be tolerated, but subject to the (no doubt limited) goodwill of the ex-premies you are talking to.

Forum Administrator

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 16:28:09 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Forum Adminstrator
Subject: About time.....Thank God!
Message:
What an incrediability fair arrangement!
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 04:02:41 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Beneath the mask
Message:
I opened your message and, SHOCK HORROR, I found myself reading a fucking shroom post. The first one in living memory since I took my vow to avoid the arsehole.
If you should do something like this again could you include the word DANGER in your subject heading? Or better still OLIVER BEWARE?
Thanks.
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 04:07:48 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: Beneath the mask (guaranteed shroom-free)
Message:
Oops sorry Ollie

Maybe the wizards behind the forum can put in those little symbols you get in some other forums - I think Sir Dave had them in his ex-premies only forum (what happened to that?) - so I could pick a poisonous mushroom or perhaps a small turd....

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:00:13 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Why don't you include the posts I was responding
Message:
to, Rob? They might make more sense that way. For example, my post to Tonette was a response to her post which went:

'You obviously need a good fuck or an enema. Why don't you get LOST!! You are tiresome and STUPID! Go join the club ilovemaharaji.yahoo.com. Go have some SATSANG! Spend your time MEDITATING! SURELY YOU HAVE BETTER WAYS OF SERVING 'The Living Perfect Master!' Bet you and your neurosis have found it hard to get laid even by brainwashed premie chicks! Face it, even the devoted find you unattractive and insane. Why don't you go play with yourself! I think you are jerking off as you post here----that's the attraction! I can only hope your jism will afect your keyboard to the point that it is useless. Get lost MUSHROOM. Everyone here thinks that you are a JERK!'

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It kind of illustrates that, beneath the thin veneer of a blessed, enlightened, devoted 'ex' premie, there lies the true repugnance of another cult member.

Kind of puts my response in context, don't you think, Rob? Of course you're not interested in context, are you, Rob? If you spent more of your time doing something constructive, you wouldn't be so obsessed with me. My goodness, but you are so small-minded! I guess you can't help yourself. That's what an obsession is all about. Get some help, Rob. You need it.

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:21:49 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Why didn't you just follow her advice?
Message:
Jerk.

How stupid and insensitive can a person get?

You deserved that from Tonette and more, and well you know it. Take the hint. Leave. You are an embarrassment to Elan Vital and maharaji, I'm sure they cringe whenever another of your gems appears on here. You truly are a living advertisment for the cult.

Frankly I found your response to Tonette disturbing. It smacks of misogyny, of potential abuse. Why don't you reply to Susan's post below, I'm sure we'd all love to hear your perspective on those crimes and the underlying messianic atmosphere around maharaji which made them possible.

You put yourself forward as a 'Success Story' for Knowledge and the Master. People deserve to see how artificial and shallow that really is, and with every vehement post you are slowly revealing the true nature of a 'Person With Knowledge'.

Put that in your bong and smoke it.

cc: Elan Vital Board of Directors

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:27:14 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: I thought you weren't reading my posts, Rob?
Message:
Does that make you a liar too?
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:37:47 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: It's not about me, Mike, its about you NT
Message:
NT
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:32:17 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Posture all you want...Still time for you to go
Message:
Oh great devotee of Maharaji....With all the time you spend here you could be doing some real SERVICE! Get another job(that is if you even have one to begin with) Meditate more! Participate! Just don't come here and pretend to be something you are not! A premie!
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 09:40:34 (GMT)
From: u turn me on
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Posture all you want..
Message:
oops.
I meant to say tern
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:43:59 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Posture all you want...Still time for you to go
Message:
Broken record...broken record...broken record...broken record...broken record...broken record...broken record...
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 07:35:14 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: All and Shroom
Subject: Posture all you want...Still time for you to go
Message:
As I posted a ways back, this blissful premmie Shroom is a 200% phony. He isn't on this forum for any other reason than to CONVINCE HIMSELF that he is 'practising this most blissful knowledge' jacking his jaw (fingers?) at us.

If he sticks around he will crack and it will dawn on him that we are right about M and cult. He sounds like he is getting close. COME ON SHROOM....OPEN UP...You can do it ...JOIN US ....GET FREE!! USE YOUR BRAIN! You are on the way and you know it. OR YOU ARE AN EV HARRASSMENT PLANT?! MAYBE SEVERAL Shrooms? Either way 200% PHONY!

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:07:29 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Time for you to go.
Message:
Take a hint. Go meditate or something. Spread the Knowledge...do good works....service......Jack Off.
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 02:31:18 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: It's obvious.
Message:
He still needs a good fuck! I would speculate he hasn't had one in a good loooooong time! But he is very good at the art of playing with himself!
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 02:29:35 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Rob/Shroom
Subject: Beneath the mask
Message:
Yuck. I missed that lovely invitation Shroom made to Tonette. That is so disgusting. I'm sure that you could get a date on yer own there, shroom. With all the respect for women you obviously have I'll bet the woman are lined up in yer front yard waitin' fer some of that sweet lovin' ya got to offer!! Whoo hoo!!

Oh and shroom, I am so glad you got us wimmin folk figgered out--ya spring for a nice dinner and we just owe ya some of that cheap hotel sex--you betcha!

What a loser!

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:19:46 (GMT)
From: Sara
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: cheap hotel sex
Message:
Helen....hmnnn..
let's boogie
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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 20:14:16 (GMT)
From: anonymous ex-premie
Email: None
To: Sara
Subject: cheap hotel sex ... how many have you booked for?
Message:
bad joke

(unless it succeeds)

PS - where?

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 01:53:24 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Anyone who has been to Am
Subject: Amaroo-On taking a dump
Message:
To any one who has been to Amaroo. I have read the stories regarding this place in Aus. It seems like they threw it together overnight without much forethought. I work in a pretty shitty industry. I design septic systems for single family homes and commercial complexes. I wonder if M and his henchmen designed a functional system to accomadate X amount of people. Or did they just dig a few holes and dispose of it as they do in his homeland. The soils in Aus. vary from kinda well-drained to very clay-like soils with no drainage qualities. I remember attending an event once and M said they were seeking people to donate their services in the fields of (and he listed a bunch of stuff including) biology and sanitary engineering. So my question to any one who has spent the week at an event in Amaroo is, Was that mud you were sloshing through, or did it look like the facilities were created with the capacity of handling a Woodstock-type convention?
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 02:35:02 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Amaroo-On taking a dump
Message:
I am told by someone who was involved that the sewerage system at Amaroo is state of the art. A lot of money was spent on it and what comes out at the end is alledgedly good enough to drink. From what I understand this project was carried out last year BUT this is all second hand information.
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 02:51:52 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: Amaroo-On taking a dump
Message:
I am impressed. I did not know if this part of the equation was taken seriously, having heard some stories about the hygenic conditions regarding the food. In order to create a system capable of handling 1000's of people, a lot of money will be spent to do it right. A state of the art system requires big bucks for maintenance also, although it does not get used at capacity year-round. I am interested in the final destination of the treated effluent. Do you know if it enters a water body? The location appears to be some distance from the ocean. Perhaps a river flows by and empties into the ocean. As long as the system performs primary, secondary and tertiary treatment, there is usually little to no effect on aquatic habitat. If the water is, as you say, 'alledgedly good enough to drink', well now I am wondering where they get their water from.

There must be a well system used to pump the water from an aquifer. I wonder if all this required local permitting from the local town. I am sure they take their water usage seriously out there. I think the towns should have records of permits given for such usage. Unless they are, as one ex-premie has stated, in the middle of absolutely nowhere.

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:53:41 (GMT)
From: Oliver
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Amaroo Water
Message:
Water for general use is piped in from the local water supply. This project was completed some years ago after all attempts to locate useable water were in vain. I cost big bucks.
I have no idea where the finished product from the sewerage system is disposed of but if I took a guess I would say that it could be used for horticultural purposes.
I feel sure that all the proper permits would have been applied for and obtained. BTW, in aussie terms, they are not in the middle of nowhere. It's only 25kms to the nearest town centre of Ipswich and about 40 minutes drive from Brisbane.
No money is spared on any project that is carried out at Amaroo and, as usual, only the best is good enough for M. After all, he's not paying for it.
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 13:52:06 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Oliver
Subject: Amaroo Water
Message:
The septic system is made of a very large concrete tank that is buried in the groung. All used water goes in. What comes out of the other end is 90-95 percent pure water. The water comes out automatically when the gases inside the tank reach a certain pressure and open and automatic valve. This system is widely used in rurler areas where proper sewage systems are not present. In most cases, the water is used for irrigation. And if your piss is the only water that is avaliable, boiling will make it drinkable. My belive is that amoroo is on high ground that is why there is not ground water. I do not think that EV will short a project like that, as it is very easy to spot by health inspectors and anyone that knows how the system works. Nothing to chase here.

Salam

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:10:28 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: There's no effluent.
Message:
All the premies there drink the stuff as prashar
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 13:05:36 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: There's no effluent.
Message:
This is called: 'Having the proper respect for the effluent of the affluent.'
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Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 21:20:15 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: This just in........Visions International
Message:
Visions International September 2000 Propaganda Bulletin

For those of you who no longer receive this crap, I will entertain you with a few items that are available from the propaganda factory. Please bare with me, I do not make this stuff up.

Introducing Maharaji Item #1189 The Missing Piece
This is the video version of 'The Missing Piece' broadcast seen in July. 'If You're looking for the truth, then truth is inside of you. If you're looking for love, then the love is inside of you...If you're looking for the peace, the peace is inside of you. And if you want to make this life complete, then teh missing puzzle in inside of you.'-Maharaji 43 min. ($15)

Also Available: the Soundtrack of 'The Missing Piece' has been specieally edited for audio, and is availale in both CD ($12) and audiocassette ($5).

Do yourself a favor and spend the 8-10 bucks on the movie, The Nutty Professor II - The Klumps. A similar story about a Fat man from a disfunctional family that finds it's own peace thru a seiries of flatulent vignettes.

NEW RELEASES

The Miami Beach May 6 event

The Boston Broadcast June 12 (although the event was for people who have received Knowlede, the broadcast has been slightly edited for all audiences.

Toronto Broadcast June 14 event

Alexandria Broadcast June 18

Yours for the low price of $15.00/video, $12/cd, $8/Cassette and now (for you real cheap bastards) $3/Transcript.

A special Boxed Set with either Boston and Miami or Toronto and Alexandria for only $25. (you do the math)

BROADCAST AND MATERIALS SPONSORSHIP

This is an exciting opportunity to join together in support of a new vision, an era when satellite programming is taking M's message around the world. The goal is daily satellite programming and with your help this vision can become a reality. Your help is needed and greatly appreciated.

Daily Satellite Programming. That pretty much says it all. Progaming. That is exactly their intent. Create little premie zombies to donate to the personal expense fund Klumpji.

I could go on and on with a plethora of crap that this latest mailing contains, but I am getting sick to my stomach and don't wish to make you all sick. Just thought I'd share with you some of the crap that is still circulating. I totally understand if you have not read down this far and have skipped to a better thread. If you have made it this far, thanks. I hope this hasn't ruined your appetite for dinner. There is more regarding live broadcsts of New Zealand and Harrogate and Rome events. I can't believe that people actually buy this shit.

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 01:37:44 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: Are you serious, Jondon?
Message:
Do yourself a favor and spend the 8-10 bucks on the movie, The Nutty Professor II - The Klumps. A similar story about a Fat man from a disfunctional family that finds it's own peace thru a seiries of flatulent vignettes.

Is that really worth watching?

Saw a great sleeper myself the other night, 'Sugar Town', about these former rockers hanging our in L.A. By the woman who did 'I Shot Andy Warhol', Allison Anders. I liked it.

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 15:46:44 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Thanks, Jim
Message:
I've thought about seeing Sugar Town. I didn't know it was made by the same director who did I Shot Andy Warhol. I liked that film a lot, so I'll definitely be checking out Sugar Town. Another good 'indie' dealing with the rock scene, the glam scene of the 70s in this case, is Velvet Goldmine. If you like good independent filmmaking, this one is a must.
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 16:09:05 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Thanks, Jer
Message:
Confession -- I never actually saw 'I Shot Andy Warhol'. I just knew about it. (I have a bias, sometimes, against renting short movies. Mind you, I'm glad that didn't stop me from getting 'American Movie'!). But thanks for the tip. I'll seek out 'Velvet Goldmine'.
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 16:18:12 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You're welcome
Message:
Jim,

I Shot Andy Warhol is an excellent full feature film. Lili Taylor, the 'indie queen' (or she used to be; she's gone Hollywood, since), stars in it and gives an excellent performance. I think you'd really like this film.

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:35:39 (GMT)
From: An admirer
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I love you nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 01:55:24 (GMT)
From: jondon
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Are you serious, Jondon?
Message:
Only about the similarity between the fatman, his dysfunctional family and the Lard of the Universe.
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 00:50:47 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: jondon
Subject: This just in........Visions International
Message:
Just curious, not being a premie or an ex - what makes you sick to your stomach exactly?
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 01:27:30 (GMT)
From: jondon`
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: This just in........Visions International
Message:
The fact that people are buying this crap. For something that seems to be such a secretive, spritual thing (for the premies that I know), it loses its spirituality (if you will) by being packaged in a shiny little magazine and sold. It is just like the rest of the Junk Mail that comes here. It is so blatantly a corporate structured organization, that is in business to make money (not that there is any thing wrong with that - 'only in America' as Don King says), my roomate and his fellow premies often buy a cassette or a video. They sit around and watch it a dozen times, then use it to tape over an episode of Survivor. I find it humourous, and a waste of money.

As far as making me sick, it is that I see through the scam that M's little business ventures (visons intl) perpetuates. And reading this stuff with its little introductions to each video is like a Ronco (Clap-on Clap-off) Advertisement. This guys FREE K, comes at a cost (financially). I do not know about the emotional costs, I caught on quickly.

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 16:33:57 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: jondon`
Subject: Thanks, plus update on a new premie...
Message:
j,
Thanks for the reply - just an update for anyone interested...

I briefly spoke to one of the 6 people that rec'd Kn in that LA session awhile back. She says she's not experiencing much really -but, that afterwards she's defintely more peaceful and she likes it.
I absolutely do not get a sense that she is contributing any money or even has been asked (yet). She has no 'devotion' to Maharaji. And she seemed quite normal (as she helped me build a frame for a stucco wall/fence.)
We didn't talk about M or meditation for more than 3 minutes out of the hours she helped me.

Just FYI,

Regards,
Elaine

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 17:41:01 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Thanks, plus update on a new premie...
Message:
Just an 'update' huh? Why don't you say what you really mean?

' Na na na na lookie, lookie another premie and she doesn't even seem to be nuts, (yet.) Look how normal we are, happily making a fence and not even jabbering on for hours about fatboy. See, things really have changed. Why, this woman doesn't even send money! It's not a cult, it's just a wonderful way to go inside.'

I hope you told she could 'experience' as much 'peace' by taking a nap or having a good fuck, Elaine.

So tell me, since you seem to know this person so well, what was your role in bringing this vulnerable person to the 'Lotus Feet?'

PS I don't believe you when you say she has no 'devotion' to the Fatguru. She needed at least six months of brainwashing before she could even receive this great 'gift' from the grifter. So don't try to pull that wool over anyone's eyes here.

You're still full of bullshit. Why don't you go 'share' with EnjoyingLifeJerkingOff.org?

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 13:29:52 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Absolutely zero,influence,BTW
Message:
This woman is a friend of a friend that happens to know how to make a stucco wall frame.

And it was a simple update. If and when she doesn't practice kn or has other interesting insights I'll report those also. But, so far, no devotion,no big change,no money given.

You want to read into that - fine.

I'm not the 'na-na-na-na-na' type - you are...so you think others are. Just like I think there is some good and nice stuff in you. Because that's what's primary in me.

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 18:21:22 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Absolute flatuluence, BTW
Message:
Elaine: I'm not the 'na-na-na-na-na' type - you are...so you think others are. Just like I think there is some good and nice stuff in you. Because that's what's primary in me.

So, did you show your friend this, Elaine? It's worth printing it out for your friends to read at their leisure, wouldn't you say?

And will you answer my question about what responsibility you feel about YOUR role in the fraud of the false messiah?

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Date: Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 00:07:25 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: JohnT
Subject: Absolute flatuluence, BTW
Message:
So,did I show my friend this?

No, I've never seen it before.

I could send it to 'my gopi' friend in Hawaii.(That I've mentioned before.) She would be very interested.

And will you ans my ques...about your role in the fraud of the false messiah.

I didn't know you asked it,for one thing.

But, if you know anything at all about me - how could I ans a question about something I've said I really don't know the ans to. I honestly don't know who Maharaji is.

Now, for that I will be condemned here. But, that is the truth - premies will think I'm terrible but, I don't know who he is. I never really thought much about it until I came across this website.I was a happy little premie meditating and going to the occassional program and seeing some old friends and directing alot of attention towards Maharaji.

Then this website came along. And again, I'm sorry, but I'm just to busy for awhile to give the issue alot of time.
It's just not top proirity at the moment -Who is Maharaji - let alone any resposibility I could have had to perpetuate a fraud.

What resposibility did you have - I think we were probably all in the same boat there for awhile - regardless of our position now.

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 11:50:21 (GMT)
From: JohnT
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Thanks, gerry. Good deconstruction of Elaine (NT)
Message:
We're on to you, Elaine.
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 01:21:19 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: This just in........Visions International
Message:
Elaine:

Probably the repackaging of stuff he's been repackaging for thirty years, with minimal variation and less relevance, coupled with the apparent fact that people are still buying it.

A friend of mine just reminded me that vicarious disappointment doesn't have quite the same appeal as vicarious pleasure. Wonder why that never occurred to me?

--Scott

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Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 19:41:15 (GMT)
From: Steve
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: As simple as that?
Message:
Hi everyone,

I was discussing life and it's mysteries the other day with a Christian. We were talking about the possibility and impossibility of the establishment of the Kingdom/Queendom of heaven on Earth and our dreams past and present of a better world.

During the conversation he said something I found profound.

If the message of two thousand years ago...had been listened to;

'Do unto others as you would have done unto you ' ( not sure of the precise wording but you know the quote). Treat others as you would like to be treated. He said that if humanity had taken this to heart and applied it , then heaven would be here on earth!

It set me thinking. What does anyone think? Could it really be that simple? Sado-masochists aside .

Steve

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 16:42:05 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: Lucifer Principle
Message:
There's an interesting book called The Lucifer Principle which might help explain why The Golden Rule isn't lived by. According to the author, Howard Bloom, people just aren't built to live by this rule. Given the state of the world, I'd say he's right.

Here's what Booklist says about the book:

Overall, his theory imparts a pessimistic slant to all human endeavor, past, present, and future, for his arguments are presented as immutable principles: that individuals inevitably subordinate personal interests to the group, which, in turn, functions as a superorganism, for example, street gangs, corporations, or nations; that humans instinctively strive for status in a pecking order arrangement, much like chickens or rats, and, thus, subjugating groups on the lower rungs of the ladder is instinctual. Utilizing historical examples, from the Roman Empire to Communist China, from Kamikaze pilots to terrorist bombers, Bloom pecks away at the edifice of 'human kindness,' 'justice,' and 'peace.' A disturbing book, but its broad generalities wear down the sharp edges of its arguments, leaving something that becomes food for thought rather than reason to despair.

Check it out.

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 03:27:14 (GMT)
From: From Kirkus Reviews
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: his thesis has an unfortunate potential ...
Message:
From Kirkus Reviews , October 15, 1994
This exploration of the roots of violence in human society finds a villain in biology: not in the genetic urge that drives each organism to reproduce, but in the forces that create larger ``superorganisms'' that seek to perpetuate themselves. Bloom (whose credentials range from cancer research at Roswell Park Memorial Cancer Research Institute to experimental graphics, programmed learning, and founding a public relations firm that represented many well-known rock artists) draws on an impressive range of historical, anthropological, and biological research to support his thesis. (The 333 pages of text are followed by an additional 117 pages of notes and bibliography.)

From this massive body of material, he arrives at a conclusion that such philosophers as Hobbes would find congenial: Aggression is not an aberrant force in society, but its very foundation. From Caesar to Khomeini, Bloom finds that those who have lead great nations are propagators of memes--the core bodies of a culture's key ideas that are the ideological equivalent of genes. History is not so much the contest of armies as of memes, and a strong meme drives out the weak as surely as the genes of an alpha male in a chimpanzee herd dominate those of his lesser competitors. While Bloom often gives cogent analyses of the currents of history, his thesis has an unfortunate potential for being warped to the service of chauvinism and racism. His attempts to draw lessons for the future (with comments on the predatory nature of Muslim society or the inability of African nations to transcend their tribal memes) are dubious at best, and potentially inflammatory at worst. And his ideas are often developed more by example than by exploration of their deeper consequences. Bloom's basic thesis is thought-provoking and often full of valuable insight; it is unfortunate that the implications he derives from it are so likely to encourage the worst aspects of human nature to come to the fore.

-- Copyright ©1994, Kirkus Associates, LP. All rights reserved. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 10:37:11 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: From Kirkus Reviews
Subject: Maybe, maybe not
Message:
KR,

I don't think we need Bloom to perpetuate chauvinism and racism. They're already well rooted aspects of human nature. What Bloom does, instead of imploring that we strive for high ideals which, to me, are obviously contrary to our nature, is demand that we recognize our nature and come to terms with it before we're destroyed by it.

The Golden Rule is a fantasy in the minds of wishy washy daydreamers that has no power in saving the human race. If we really want to survive, perhaps frightening ourselves with the cold facts about how we really are, a species similar to beasts in the wild, who behave as they do, maybe we can stop ourselves, being armed with that knowledge, before we blindly blow ourselves to kingdom come.

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 14:48:09 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: I agree, Jer -- and I found the book fascinating
Message:
I remember particularly liking his take on the 'meek-shall-inherit-the-earth' strategy for power grabbing. Even if Bloom somehow overstates his case, though I'm not saying he does, there must be some core truth to his thesis. The argument, for me, would all be on the margins.

But I haven't looked at it in a while. I'll pull it off the shelf and take a look.

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 02:27:01 (GMT)
From: Jesus Christ
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: As simple as that?
Message:
You know, I am sick and tired of being constantly misquoted like this. I NEVER said 'Do unto others blah da blah...' That was just another invention of the ergot-soaked brains of those stupid loser hippies who insisted on following me everywhere and kissing my feet. Yuk, how I used to puke at that.

And another thing, I NEVER said I was the Son of God. At least not after I'd got my shit together with a few shill companies making donkey carts (complete with gold toilet) and recycling educational papyrus scrolls. After that the 'Messiah' thing became more of a burden and was holding back my expansion into the lucrative Roman markets.

Even today, there are a gazillion poor saps who cling onto that, but at least they've finally got it through their thick skulls to keep it to themselves and deny I ever said it too. Have to give it to my brother Judas, he was the first to get with the program and refute the 'God' thing, especially after I nailed his wife.

Now if only I could recall all those ten billion Bibles....what an ass Gutenberg was, thinking he was 'Participating'. Just wasn't synchronised, that's all.

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 01:47:11 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: I'm afraid not
Message:
The fact is, Steve, that we simply can't, and indeed, shouldn't even try, to follow the 'Golden Rule'. We need to prioritize our responsibilities, committments and allocation of resources. If I love you -- and you and you and you -- then, in the end, I'd say I'm really loving no one at all. Rather, I'm posing as a professional lover.

I know this isn't exactly what you're talking about but it's all the same issue, as I see it. Jesus was fucked if he really preached that all on the belief that some invisible God would keep filling your account as quickly as you emptied it. But life's not like that.

And no one knows that more than Maharaji himself. He'd gladly give soem of his stock dividends to his more desparate followers. Unfortunately, they're just not that importatnt to him. He's got his own family and mouths to feed. You know?

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 01:28:23 (GMT)
From: Sir David
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: It doesn't work
Message:
'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.'

I tried it and it didn't work. I tried giving all of my money to people and didn't get a penny back from anyone.

I tried offering my sexual services completely free to every female I encountered but I'm damned if there's any females offering me their sexual services.

I told my bank that they can borrow money off me any time they like but they still won't give me a loan.

Am I doing it right? I ask myself.

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 17:45:11 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Sir David
Subject: All things come ...
Message:

...to he who waits.

Sir David, I'd like to buy you a drink.

And there's this girl I know (bit of a misanthropist as it happens) who's got a nasty dose of the clap and would LOVE to meet you!

BTW, can you lend us a fiver?

;)

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Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:23:11 (GMT)
From: suchabanana
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: As simple as that? Yep, probably...
Message:
The golden rule definitely applies: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

1. it's the nice thing to do -- fosters good relationships, too
2. it's karma -- what goes around, soon or later comes back around again
3. for every action, there is an equal reaction
[4. hedge your bets, just in case]

I would add my own prescriptions for living a good, simple life:
Always have faith in the higher consciousness residing within each of us, try to stay in tune with that, and trust in your own heart.

Try and leave this earth a better place than you found it.

If at all possible, try and do no harm to other sentient beings, too.

Practice kindness and patience, be honest in one's dealings, and be truthful (except where it is ego -- intended to wound others)

Peace

p.s. sorry about that provocative heading last night -- no slight intended -- just, if the forum ends up looking like some people are just hurling rotten vegetables at each other, then someone might just start saying 'see, told you so...'

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 18:00:04 (GMT)
From: Alan Jones (quote)
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: As simple as that? Yep, probably...
Message:
The highest form of motion is to move freely in the place where one is, at last, at home.

-Alan Jones

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Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:28:42 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: suchabanana
Subject: 'try and do no harm to other sentient beings, too'
Message:
... even the likes of Jim?

;)

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Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:18:51 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: As simple as that?
Message:
There's a rabbi who worded it, 'Do not do unto others would you would not want done to you.' I find this version more helpful for some reason. The problem IMO with some Christian doctrine is it puts too much pressure on people to be perfect. I remember this Christian group when I was in high school, they believed you should put God and others before yourself. This just doesn't seem realisic, I would rather put myself on the same par as others, ya know?

Anyway, it's a good message either way it is worded. But it is hard to live up to. And we all get a little crazy sometimes and cannot always live up to it.

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Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:41:53 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: As simple as that?
Message:
Hi Helen -
I like that version a lot too, for the same reasons you do. I would also suggest a corollary 'Do not do to yourself what you would not do unto others'. Sometimes I need to hear that more than the original version.

Take care, girl -
Love,
Katie

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 02:09:32 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: As simple as that?
Message:
Hi Katie
Glad my post made sense even though it had typos 'would would you do to others what a woodchuck would do' Sometimes my words of wisdom must be sorely confusing due to the typos! I'm an editor--really!!

I like your post about not doing to oneself what you wouldn't do to others. I think us cult survivors are folks who have a pretty high tolerance for abuse and in treating ourselves better is job number one. Once that is taken care of, it will radiate into other areas of our lives such as our relationships with others.

I am becoming pretty skeptical of religious beliefs that require a lot of self sacrifice. Sooner or later that comes home to roost in the form of martyrdom, resentment and disease. Am I advocating selfishness? Not really, just advocating realism.

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Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:31:32 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: As simple as that?
Message:
even simpler would be:

'don't shit on others the way you REALLY would love to'.

Ever repressive, though socially responsible, ain't that Xtian cult?

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 02:17:13 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: As simple as that?
Message:
YEAH! SOunds good to me. The problem is a lot of born agains wouldn't allow themselves the thought of 'Gee I'd like to choke that so and so' Therein lies the dysfunction, IMO.

But I think your post is where it is at--to show a little restraint even when you feel like putting the big hurt on someone.

The Xian thing--all that pressure to love everyone all the time seems so phony baloney. And frankly I wish Xians would focus more on social responsibility than on 'saving' others deficient in the proper 'understanding of Jesus Christ.'

A religious woman at work (who is very beautiful and sweet) had her wallet stolen at work, and is praying for the person who stole it. I told her she should not waste her breath and instead pray for herself! She's the one who got robbed. Call me crazy, I dunno. And me, I still believe in God, but what do I know? Maybe we should pray for these stinky people who commit crimes but I don't wanna!

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Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:49:18 (GMT)
From: Steve
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: don't shit on others the way you really would love
Message:
to! That's a good one !

Steve

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Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:11:27 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: if only the Christian churches had listened!
Message:
BTW, the 'message of two thousand years ago' that we have quote 'all' endquote (necessary distinction here, Steve, though not to diss your point) been led to believe originated with JC in the year AD dot (not dot.com), is, would you believe,

BASED ON ...

well, history doesn't enter into it.

WHAT? the Xtians cry - JC didn't exist?

As it happens, no.

The myth was a conglomoration of early hero-stories that were combined (mostly by agents, witting or unwitting, of the Roman empire) - into a conveniently adhesive whole that was intended to unite the empire into a cohesive monopoly.

Instead we got anti-Semitism, anti-Mohammedanism and similar subsequant witch-hunts that have cast their shadow on Christendom for all eternity.

(Just my opinion, BTW, though definitely more substantiated in real ACTUAL history than any 'redeemer' figure is.)


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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 07:00:16 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: if only the Christian churches had listened!
Message:
FYI- A very well researched and annotated book is just out by two scholars that backs your perspective up with historical fact. There is no evidence of an actual historical person...known as Jesus the Christ! The book is 'The Jesus Mysteries' by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy. Another similar book is 'The Jesus Puzzle' by Earl J Doherty.
Another satguru bites the dust!
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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 17:26:01 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: if only the Christian churches had listened!
Message:
A couple of interesting sites to compare as well, ExTex:

http://www.truthbeknown.com/speaking.htm

and

http://members.tripod.com/~pc93/kuhn.htm

PS (OT)
Your name doesn't come from the song 'All my exes live in Texas' by any chance?

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 03:36:23 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Cool Sites
Message:
I have had that 1st one bookmarked for quite some time. I like that site. 2nd one is new to me, I'll check it out. Here's one for you (and anyone reading this). It is pretty interesting, and I have heard this guy speak and he is pretty convincing and well researched. 'The God Part Of The Brain'-
http://www.godpart.com/

Oh, I'm an ex, my premie days were in Tx, I don't live in Tx anymore, and most of MY ex's are in Tx. Thus ExTex.

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 17:50:40 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Cool Sites
Message:
Thanks, Ex-Tex, that Matthew Alper book looks VERY interesting.


Kuhn, incidentally, is nothing if not wordy, and in a very old-fashioned way. But when he comes up with an insight, it can knock your socks off.

The intro to 'The Lost Light' and many parts of 'Who is this King of Glory?' I can definitely recommend.


BTW, have you seen how Acharya's book got a bad review from the Fortean Times (of all publications)?

Pity, she's done a good job putting together a lot of other peoples' research that wouldn't otherwise have come to light.

Now, how to explain this to Padre Miguel? ;)

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 09:35:17 (GMT)
From: non-tex
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: if only the Christian churches had listened!
Message:
if vicky marries me
and the schroom is on the juke a laylee
I'll be an x.
try that 1 on 4 size...
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Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 23:10:16 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: everyone
Subject: if only the Christian churches had listened!
Message:
Well, as one would expect, I disagree with cq regarding the existence of Jesus. I think that there is enough work in the “search for the historical Jesus” area to discount the claims of Kuhn and others who say that Jesus was nothing but a collection of myths. I will also admit that I was unable to finish reading Kuhn, so I can not argue everything point by point. I also realize that my view on this subject is biased, and I accept that fact. But the Roman Empire did not become interested in using Xianity to unite the empire until the fourth century, and there are writings which date back to the first century. And since the empire was persecuting people like Ignatius and Polycarp, from whom we get some of our earliest writings; were they spreading hero stories to help unite the empire?
I would suggest that those who are interested (you might find these books interesting, too, Chris) on the subject of the Historical Jesus read the books by John Dominic Crossan, Marcus Borg, N. T. Wright, and Robert W. Funk. Also, “The Five Gospels” from the Jesus Seminar is a great introduction to modern scholarship regarding the authentic sayings of Jesus. Some of these books are written for those who are not scholars, and some of these books are highly academic and not easily accessible to those outside of academia, but they are interesting.

I also want to point out that there are many differing views regarding soteriology within Christianity; some churches teach that Jesus died for the sins of the world, some teach that he came to bring about the Reign of God, and some teach that one must “ask Jesus into your heart,” and some teachers say that atonement soteriology was a means of making sense of the death of a leader. But theology differs throughout the Christian faith, and it is unfair to paint everyone with the same brush. Throughout the past 1900 years, some have tried to love their neighbor, some have tried to feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, tend to the sick, visit the prisoner and welcome the stranger, while others have changed the message to be one of repression and punishment. Terrible crimes have been committed in the name of the Church and in the name of Christ, and the Roman church is just now beginning to admit this and come to terms with its past; I hope that they continue and that all the denominations continue to wrestle with the crimes of the past. But I would also suggest that we all remember that not all Christians are moronic goons trying to force-feed the Bible and a repressive theology down everyones’ throats. Christianity is actually quite diverse, and not the monolithic faith many seem to think it is.
Here endeth the rant.

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:27:38 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Michael
Subject: if only the Christian churches had listened!
Message:
Michael:

You rightly observe that things are more complicated than they appear to purists. The fact is that we *did listen* 2000 years ago, at least as much as we could have. Sort of silly to speculate about what might have happened 'if,' when the 'if' is excluded as a possibility. We treat each other as we would like to be treated only to the extent that we need to cooperate in achieving goals we can't achieve alone. This presents us with a bind between freedom and obligation. Cooperation requires an enforcable pact or contract that, by definition, limits freedom. But, it's fairly easy to demonstrate that if all agreements were strictly contractual there'd be no final basis for agreements, and virtually no agreement. It's entirely possible that the notion of contractual or binding arrangements, and the extra-rational concepts of love and loyalty upon which they rest, evolved to supplement one another. It seems, therefore, unrealistic to expect to optimize one in the absence of the other. (This is the topic of David P. Gauthier's *Moral Dealing: Contract, Ethics, and Reason*.)

As for creating the golden ideal on earth, it would be quite a project. In the last analysis it would have to pass the test of producing more absolute good for everyone participating in it than any other sort of arrangement, and the truth of this would have to be reasonably clear to everyone. Hard to square with human nature, but who knows? Maybe what's impossible is to square it with the idea of infinite material gain, or infinite human freedom? But perhaps we don't have to.

--Scott

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 21:10:18 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: advice from an alien
Message:
Hi Scott
In this Octavia Butler book I am reading now called 'Dawn' (sci-fi) a very intelligent alien says that humans have two qualities that in tandam almost guarantee our self-destruction. These qualities are being very intelligent and being hierarchical. Taken together they are like oil and water. SO much for the 'golden world' we can create.

But we should still try (:

Hope you are well
Helen

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 04:14:07 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: advice from an alien
Message:
Helen:

It might have been the absence of reasonable patterns that led to hierarchical organization, rather than it being an immutable human trait. It's a simple knee jerk way of resolving certain problems of credibility, like stacking bricks or stones, but the fact that we no longer organize information hierarchically could have consequences for our power structures as well.

As I said, I think we have really goofy notions about freedom and gain. Make all action and potential completely free and what you've got is helplessness, or infinite slipperiness. When people are hungry they have the illusion that they can eat a tableful of food, but they satiate at a much lower level. Hedonism begets a moral ethical structure as surely as asceticism begets excess. Being a multi-millionaire looks like a lot more fun if you can't make the house payments. We are lousy at extrapolating reality from our personal experience. We just started building a history barely 3,000 years ago, and we're still grinding our teeth. Give it time.

--Scott

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 02:23:29 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Michael
Subject: if only the Christian churches had listened!
Message:
I'm sorry Michael if I caused you any offense in my rantings about Christians. You know I respect you very much and I am glad that you find meaning and purpose in your religion (I am all for that). I generally have avoided Christian bashing (not an easy thing as it seems to be a pleasure sport amongst Unitarians) but some of the theology is hard for me to swallow.

It's people like you though who make the world a better place so I apologize for painting Christians all with the same brush. I'll go back to my cave now and read some more Octavia Butler, it's all her fault for putting these subversive ideas in my head to begin with!!

Hope you're well, Fr. Mickey.

Helen, your Unitarian friend

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Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:46:42 (GMT)
From: steve
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: if only the Christian churches had listened!
Message:
Hi Chris,

I read the website you recommended , was it Aryicharia or something like that? Any way I'm not too concerned with the history , even if the character is fictional the message can still be valid to me. I find Herman Hesses' fictional works inspiring. The message is still valid IMO.

I don't know if I can achieve it for I'm certainly no saint ; but it does seem feasable to give it a go. Certainly easier than trying to realise something by trying to stop my mind by doing some yoga techniques.

Time for a change methinks.

Kind regards dare I say love even,
Steve

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Date: Tues, Sep 12, 2000 at 17:41:13 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: steve
Subject: if ... only
Message:
ah, the message, Steve!

The message was a compilation of truths, half-truths, 'received wisdoms' (and thanks again, Jim for explaining the deeper meaning of that phrase), and out-and-out misquotes.

The mish-mash that is 'the message' can be used to justify just about any behaviour from 'hating your mother and father' to cannibalism. Choose other bits and you'll 'love your neighbour as yourself' (despite the fact that JC called his opponents, among other things, a 'generation of vipers'.)

It's all there, though. The sound ideas and the silly. But the origins of the teachings are far more ancient than we're taught to believe. (IMHO anyway).

Would love to share some of why I think this way with you, but, I wonder, is this the place?

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Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:11:02 (GMT)
From: Bones
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: Yes, but!
Message:
They're a bunch of predatory apes, Steve. With an instinct for language.

Nothing you can feel that can't be felt - and so on. We can work it out. It's easy.

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Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:04:02 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Steve
Subject: Yes, but beware of the sado-masochist! (nt)
Message:
jhkjh
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Date: Mon, Sep 11, 2000 at 20:02:36 (GMT)
From: Yves
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: Read below (NT)
Message:
This is serious stuff.
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