Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Fri, Sep 22, 2000 at 10:21:22 (GMT)
From: Sep 11, 2000 To: Sep 21, 2000 Page: 3 Of: 5


baby schroom -:- some of you x's...are... -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 02:29:21 (GMT)
__ cq -:- That's not you Mike Fronke,is it? Sounds more like -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 19:41:18 (GMT)
__ __ minor schroomage -:- That's not you Mike Fronke,is it? Sounds more like -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 21:44:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- You HAVE lost me there. (nt) -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 11:59:08 (GMT)
__ Anon -:- some of you x's...are... -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 09:08:18 (GMT)
__ __ Carol -:- Hi Anon! I agree whole heartedly.. -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 07:17:28 (GMT)
__ __ ExTex -:- I gotta jump in here and... -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 06:39:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ Carol -:- The voice I hear... -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 07:24:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ExTex -:- The voice I hear... -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 07:47:59 (GMT)
__ __ itsybitsyschroom -:- some of you x's...are... -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 21:26:16 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- some of you x's...are... -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 11:57:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ baby schroom -:- some of you x's...are... -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 21:16:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ExTex -:- some of you x's...are... -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 07:02:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Michael -:- some of you x's...are... -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 23:24:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ Steve -:- ' Strictly speaking , there are no enlightened -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 13:50:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- ' Strictly speaking , there are no enlightened -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 15:16:46 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- Snot, the tired analogy -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 11:55:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ Anon -:- Snot, the tired analogy -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 13:48:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Snot, the tired analogy -:- Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 12:33:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Anth, you're too gross to feel such subtle thing! -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 13:00:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Anth, you're too gross to feel such subtle thing! -:- Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 12:36:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- Snot, the tired analogy -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 12:04:07 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Bad news baby schroom -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 08:23:10 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- may I ask a personal Question? -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 06:55:41 (GMT)
__ __ lil'schroom -:- may I ask a personal Question? -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 21:12:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- 43 and you? nt -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 01:45:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ lil'schroom -:- 43 and you? nt -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 01:56:20 (GMT)
__ ExTex -:- Aha! -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 05:46:48 (GMT)
__ __ lil'schroom -:- Aha!If I wanted to do some soul searching... -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 21:11:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ ExTex -:- Aha!If I wanted to do some soul searching... -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 10:34:12 (GMT)
__ Salley -:- some of you x's...are... -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 03:15:24 (GMT)
__ __ Forum Admistrator -:- Stop the multi-alias stuff or go away.. -:- Mon, Sep 18, 2000 at 00:27:35 (GMT)
__ __ Anon -:- Silly Salley! -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 10:13:32 (GMT)
__ __ ExTex -:- some of you x's...are... -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 07:39:38 (GMT)

la-ex -:- 1973 millenium festival setup?prophecies? -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 02:10:20 (GMT)
__ Marianne -:- 1973 millenium festival setup?prophecies? -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 04:53:31 (GMT)
__ Ying -:- Bublegumji is strong on delirium. -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 15:33:15 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- 1973 millenium - don't forget the aliens -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 08:30:06 (GMT)
__ ExTex -:- 1973 millenium festival setup?prophecies? -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 05:38:55 (GMT)
__ __ DeProGram Anand Ji -:- 1973 millenium festival setup?prophecies? -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 11:56:57 (GMT)

TiM -:- Fileing and Deportation -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 19:22:22 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- An impression -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 02:02:32 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Being able to interact with real people here and -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 17:47:12 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Pardon? -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 01:42:25 (GMT)
__ __ ExTex -:- BRILLIANT POST, Sir D. (nt) -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 05:22:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Ooo er missus -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 08:45:01 (GMT)
__ Scott T. -:- More to the point... -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 00:56:48 (GMT)
__ Scott T. -:- Flailing and deportment. -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 22:04:46 (GMT)

Y argue? -:- Crime writer shot in Montreal. -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 14:44:21 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Crime writer shot in Montreal. -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:48:52 (GMT)
__ __ Y argue? -:- Wrong by me -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 15:27:07 (GMT)

Yves' is out to lunch -:- Nuremberg Times 'Rawat didn't know about Jagdeo' -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 13:31:48 (GMT)

To Salam -:- The links you requested -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 13:14:31 (GMT)
__ Salam -:- Thanks..nt -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:37:07 (GMT)

Mike Fronke -:- To the unbiased observers who know the whole story -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 11:26:24 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- For the love of God! -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 02:10:07 (GMT)
__ __ ExTex -:- For the love of God! -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:12:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- For the love of God! -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 07:22:39 (GMT)
__ Forum Administrator -:- Sigh... (I do have other things to do, you know) -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 16:59:57 (GMT)
__ __ Let's ask Rob Committee -:- How did you get Shroomananda's real name, Rob? -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 17:25:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ Rob -:- I didn't, he volunteered it. -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 03:54:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Rob -:- Epilogue -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:04:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- Amazing! What a riot. nt -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 07:46:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Well done, Rob! -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:33:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Well done, Rob! -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:46:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- ROB! NOW LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE! -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:50:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Or did I just OUT myself? Aww, shit! -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:59:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Thanks Rog, -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 05:04:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Oh right, that's Jean-Michel's territory now -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:58:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- By the way Mike, -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:32:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- Is that Mr Letsaskrobcommittee Smith? (nt) -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 17:46:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Salam -:- I don't know where Rob is gone, -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 21:45:05 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- I hope this doesn't screw up your access weekends -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 16:16:45 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Oh, now I see. This is truly hilarious! -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 16:06:11 (GMT)
__ tic tic tic tic tic tic -:- tic tic tic tic tic tic tic tic tic tic tic tic -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 16:00:57 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Ha ha! Serves you right, asshole! (IMHO, natch) -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:56:53 (GMT)
__ John Tucker -:- as an outsider who knows the whole story -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 12:51:29 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- You 'outed' yourself! -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 12:10:46 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- You 'outed' yourself! -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 00:48:47 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Shroo outed himself - too right! -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 18:56:39 (GMT)
__ SB -:- IS NOT RIGHT FA!! -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 11:47:20 (GMT)
__ __ Forum Administrator -:- What is not right? -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 23:01:14 (GMT)
__ An impartial observer -:- To the unbiased observers who know the whole story -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 11:42:26 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- To the unbiased observers who know the whole story -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 11:37:20 (GMT)
__ __ Rob -:- No confidences were betrayed, Dave -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:18:47 (GMT)
__ __ Scott T. -:- To the unbiased observers who know the whole story -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 13:16:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Nigel -:- Or inspired guesswork..? -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 13:44:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Rob -:- Baited a trap, Nigel? -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:20:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Michael -:- Or inspired guesswork..? -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:37:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Or inspired guesswork..? -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:57:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- This is all so INSPIRED! Lila is what it is! -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 00:28:58 (GMT)

DeProgram Anand Ji -:- Looking For Pics of DLM/GM -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 07:04:38 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- Damn I was too poor -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 13:59:52 (GMT)
__ Agent Everglades -:- Looking For Pics of DLM/GM -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 20:18:53 (GMT)
__ __ ExTex -:- Looking For Pics of DLM/GM -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 03:58:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ Scott T. -:- Nostalgia ad nauseum, maybe. -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 17:40:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Nostalgia ad nauseum, maybe. -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 05:51:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Nauseum toward nostalgia, maybe. -:- Mon, Sep 18, 2000 at 18:20:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- Nostalgia ad nauseum, maybe. -:- Mon, Sep 18, 2000 at 04:52:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ DeProGram Anand Ji -:- Looking For Pics of DLM/GM -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 12:08:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ ExTex -:- Looking For Pics of DLM/GM -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 06:04:12 (GMT)
__ Xamanda -:- Looking For Pics of DLM/GM -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 10:05:17 (GMT)
__ __ DeProGram Anand Ji -:- Looking For Pics of DLM/GM -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 12:11:00 (GMT)

ExTex -:- Hey Ex's That Just Read This Forum... -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 05:54:09 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- Posting can be confronting -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 02:25:39 (GMT)
__ Suchabanana -:- Hey Ex's That Just Read This Forum... -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:10:41 (GMT)

Rob -:- Premies are you wasting your time here? -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 04:49:49 (GMT)
__ Mike Fronke -:- No, I didn't waste my time here. I said my piece. -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:38:02 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- 'Just as long as they don't bring problems to my-' -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 19:07:10 (GMT)
__ __ hal -:- No, I didn't waste my time here. I said my piece. -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 14:00:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ ExTex -:- Ditto...w/some o dem luv vibes! (nt) -:- Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 05:10:33 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Do you know how alone you really are? -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 05:03:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Excellent point, Jim. And I was there recently. -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 17:29:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Tonette -:- So true, premies have become autistic! nt -:- Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 19:22:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- Jean-Michel *** BEST OF*** !!!(nt) ps, thanks Roj -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 19:55:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Tonette -:- That is so sad -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 07:58:46 (GMT)
__ __ Rob -:- Oh by the way, -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:43:18 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- What a bullshit artist! -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 23:36:33 (GMT)
__ Shroomananda -:- Do you want me to give the FA my address and -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:21:17 (GMT)
__ __ Rob -:- I think you scored an own goal there, pal. NT -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:27:28 (GMT)
__ __ Internet Phone Search -:- Is that the San Diego branch of the Shrooms? -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 00:19:46 (GMT)
__ __ Yves' siamese brother -:- How come Miss Piggy is still here? -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 13:56:18 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- Question Mike -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 08:05:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mike Fronke -:- Answer to Anth -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 11:11:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Thanks Mike -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 08:15:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- If a hole became a molehill. -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 18:55:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Dave, this is one for your new page. NT -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:33:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Amnesia -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 17:31:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mike Fronke -:- I never sang that song, Nigel. -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 20:00:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- WHO are you trying to devote yourself to, Mike? -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 20:02:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- U could say the exact same thing about a labotomy -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 16:09:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Way -:- To Mike Fronke -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:28:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- That was an incrediable post nt -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 08:15:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- You're still a Shrew... -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:14:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ salam -:- I must say that I do have more respect -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 11:26:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Tonette -:- I say once a shroom always a shroom nt -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 08:18:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Salam -:- You mean he is a Mike Shroomji?..nt -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 17:25:16 (GMT)
__ __ Tonette -:- Promises, promises...yeah right , see you're still -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:49:02 (GMT)
__ __ ExTex -:- Do you want me to give the FA my address and -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:29:00 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- Oh that's FUNNY!!!! -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:01:53 (GMT)
__ baby schroom -:- are you wasting your time here? -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 05:24:36 (GMT)
__ __ ExTex -:- are you wasting your time here? -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:02:37 (GMT)
__ __ Your ass is yours -:- so why do not you sit on a hot pocker..nt -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 05:54:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ baby schroom -:- so why do not you sit on a hot pocker..nt -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 07:00:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Scott T. -:- so why do not you sit on a hot pocker..nt -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 05:38:43 (GMT)

TiM -:- Fileing against Rawat -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 20:36:44 (GMT)
__ ExTex -:- Fileing against Rawat -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 04:52:55 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Fileing against Rawat -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 18:49:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ Know It All -:- IRS -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 02:08:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- MRANU -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 18:46:59 (GMT)

TiM -:- Rawat's heart attack and the Jagdeo scandal -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 20:27:18 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- Slow down, TiM -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 01:41:53 (GMT)
__ Joe -:- These are insane rantings. -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 16:54:17 (GMT)
__ Forum Administrator -:- Careful, please... -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 10:57:50 (GMT)
__ __ Rob -:- I think you should edit it, perhaps? nt -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 05:09:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ Forum Admin -:- Yes - probably a good idea. -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 23:35:31 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Rawat's heart attack and the Jagdeo scandal -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 08:12:25 (GMT)
__ Nigel -:- Unsubstantiated nonsense (Attn FA!) -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 08:11:15 (GMT)
__ Tonette -:- Rawat has no power -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:10:50 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- except as the world's most successful beggar! -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 19:58:53 (GMT)
__ ExTex -:- Rawat's heart attack and the Jagdeo scandal -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 04:47:48 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Oh no! He was only kidding, ExTex, honestly (??) -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:42:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ ExTex -:- Har Har Har, Jim. Good One (nt) -:- Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 06:03:12 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Hey, you sound sincere ... nuts and one more thing -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 03:31:32 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- Whoa! -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 03:16:15 (GMT)
__ __ DeProGram Anand Ji -:- Whoa! -:- Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 05:55:19 (GMT)

Carol -:- http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/traumatic_abuse.ht -:- Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 16:52:01 (GMT)


Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 02:29:21 (GMT)
From: baby schroom
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: some of you x's...are...
Message:
probably..no
are definately more in tune w/ your heart
than some of the 'currents' I am unfortunately forced to be
around...
I HATE them...I despise their pretense
their no heart...always thinking....selfs...
Concept city...and i wish they'd go back to their
deprogram'd beings...go somewhere back to europe..
but no...they stay and pretend....and I pee on the ground they
walk on...
THIS DOESN'T MEAN M HASN'T REVEAL'D the mitey lite.
@least some x's....call a spade a spade
maybe some x's forget the king of hearts..
it's ok...ya'll can come on back now..ya hear..
I'd rather some one spit in my face, even if he's wrong.
than some 'current' bullshyter who walks with a pole so far up
her ass...it comes out of her mouth.
god does exist...ex's....and it is inside...
don't b leaf me....just didn't look hard enuf..that's all
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 19:41:18 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: baby schroom
Subject: That's not you Mike Fronke,is it? Sounds more like
Message:
TiM.

But I could be wrong.

Just one point I'd like to take issue on: when you say 'god does exist...ex's....and it is inside...'

I (seriously, now) would like to know why you limit your experience of god only to what's inside you.

If 'God' is 'God', then surely EVERYTHING is an experience of 'God'.

Trouble is, why on earth do we even HAVE the concept of 'God'?

OK, the universe, all of us, and everything in it (not that there can, by definition, be anything outside of it), - seems to have had a moment of creation.

So, black holes combine to create one massive singularity that is smaller than a pinhead. Then it all expands again. (BIG bang!) Then contracts. Then expands (another BIG bang!) And the cycle repeats again. And again. (ad infinitum).

Now why should such a natural cycle of existence, (existence which, BTW, has no choice BUT to exist) be called 'God'?

It just is. As we are.

The alternative would be ...

nothingness.

.
.
.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 21:44:03 (GMT)
From: minor schroomage
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: That's not you Mike Fronke,is it? Sounds more like
Message:
Don't you realize that scientists have discovered other
universes...out there..
and that these are brighter than a thousand suns.
Look it up..
go read an astonomy book or something..
It's a scientifice fact,jack..
as for the existence of a god....
ever see a sunset/sunrise ?
it's colors...pink...and grey...
ever marvel at the beauty...
Why is it so phucking beautiful ?
Ther MUST be something making it so...
and if that's just a cosmic coinsidence.
well then my name ain't harry carry..
some [current] ones are so full of crap
so in their selfish minds...that..it turns people off
who needs this shyte..
god revealed...and one experiences some bullshyte old hag
laying her trip on us....
doesn't mean...that the source is corrupt...just means that,
that particular person is phucked up...
so be it....
but eyes a hanging with the deal so real
and following it's/his lead...
'WHY does the pink and grey look so fine ?
when we approach it with the hart of a child..
then,,,and only then....can we have a phucking clue as to
the purity this thing is..
otherwise, ya'll just get bent out of shape....discussing..
the goods and bads of Mr.Schroom.
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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 11:59:08 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: minor schroomage
Subject: You HAVE lost me there. (nt)
Message:
other universes? You mean galaxies? (I hope).
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 09:08:18 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: baby schroom
Subject: some of you x's...are...
Message:
This thread again seems to be potentially reinforcing the ridiculous idea that there is this defined group called 'ex-premies' none of whom derived any 'bliss' out of meditation and so all toe the party line and proclaim 'There is no God' , 'nectar was snot' etc.

Well I would like to beg to differ. I saw loads of light, tasted something that was not like snot (btw that's getting to be a tired joke/analogy Anth) and had some pretty wonderful experiences. That has nothing to do with my other judgements about premies and Maharaji.

I acknowledge that there may be entirely physical explanations (within the brain) for these experiences, but on the other hand, I don't think that this has been entirely proved.

(One fact that is interesting is that some hospitals in the USA are convinced enough of the possibility of there being an excorporeal part to us, that they are installing hidden images on the ceilings of operating theatres to investigate the phenomenon that many anaesthetised patients report lucidly on things they should not be able to perceive.)

Meitational experiences after all are largely subjective and although some scientist may be able to induce 'light' by stimulating some bit of the brain, that does not mean that it is an invalid or un-beneficial experience. I got really high on meditation. I don't do it now mainly because I am catching up on the things I abandoned to follow M. and frankly, I still can't help associating the practice with the daft organisation that I got sucked into. In fact I am somewhat pissed of that Maharaji and premies succeeded in putting me off something that I fundamentally liked doing.

I really object to the suggestion that all exes are atheist or never experienced anything etc. Some may have been too lazy to do it but generally the exes are people who were committed meditators.

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 07:17:28 (GMT)
From: Carol
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Hi Anon! I agree whole heartedly..
Message:
and I love to read about brain research and I'm now reading a newer book by a neuroscientist V.S. Ramachandran: Phantoms in the Brain: Probing the Mysteries of the Human Mind.

It has a chapter:
God and the Limbic System

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 06:39:09 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: I gotta jump in here and...
Message:
say that meditation is a way to 'refine' one's perception of the experience of being alive. The need to tag it with definitions related to unprovable mythologies and dieties just muddies up the water. It is like the old zen saying about the menu isn't the food. We as humans have this need to tag a verbal and mental symbol on everything....which limits the experience by giving it a definition that by it's very nature is the menu not the food.

Same goes for the vast and mysterious cosmos that we are part of. Same for everything in this cosmos. There is natural order and law (mathematical/scientific) to the whole vast cosmos and what we percieve as paranormal is only that which we do not yet have tagged and defined with our understanding. So it is MYTHOLOGIZED and that is religion. That is superstition.

Meditation is exactly and only what it is when you experience it. Nothing more or less. There is no need to add explanations about levels of spirit and guru's and christ's etc...what difference does it make? That's where the huckster's and delusional con artists come in.

As that great American mystic, James Brown said, 'What It IS, Is What It Is!' And as John Lennon said, 'There ain't no guru who can see through YOUR eyes!'

But, of course that is just MY MENU!

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 07:24:41 (GMT)
From: Carol
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: The voice I hear...
Message:
in my head when I read your post, is the voice of the cowboy in a commercial for public television that had two rough looking cowboys out by the campfire talking with wonder about the distant galaxies. BTW, I also agree with what you have said and enjoy the way you said it!
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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 07:47:59 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Carol
Subject: The voice I hear...
Message:
That was kinda sweet of you to say. But actually I was using my best PEE WEE HERMAN voice in that post. Funny how perceptions are! (Har Har Har) I'll have to work a lttle more on that.
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 21:26:16 (GMT)
From: itsybitsyschroom
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: some of you x's...are...
Message:
my friend anon.
you said,
you saw loads of light.....\correct.?
correct...
remember the story he told of this lady who was having a
fine time practising K ?
and then she decided...well...let's see what happens if I stop.
the shyte hit the fan.....
well,
If I like eating pistacio ice cream...
I eat it everyday...
I'l keep eating it.
perhaps...someone will tell me how bad 'milk' is..
like it's pumped up with all sorts of crap...
I knew this 30 years ago...
ok...soy yum....fine..if u like it
Me...I'll have a burgundy cherry sometimes
and if it's bad for me
then I'll suffer...
as far as seeing a LIGHT inside.
why stop seeing it.....
It is god.....you know...doesn't matter if I proclaim it to be.
It is..
It will be
and It always was...
don't look at the light...fine....just another human
who could bave been a contender j/k
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 11:57:14 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: some of you x's...are...
Message:
Anon:

I also had fairly intense experiences in meditation, and at least once it helped me overcome a psychotic episode that was probably an LSD flashback. It seems to have had the opposite effect on some people, actually inducing psychoses, though that's hard to tell from a clinical perspective. It may have been God too. I mean, it was impersonal and distant enough from the mundane to have been God, though the reason I quit meditating was that the experience didn't seem to be doing me any good, apart from that one healing episode. I figure if I'm going to spend so much time meditating on God I should be getting some sort of inside dope on what's going on. Reading seems to have been much more informative. I know the premies indicate all sorts of benefits from meditation, but for the most part they don't seem very functional. Clearly the meditation alone doesn't make much of a program, and M's contributions are rather pathetically irrelevant. What was that line from Lawrence Durrell? Something like: 'When I was young I ceased believing in enlightenment. I was very naive.'

--Scott

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 21:16:13 (GMT)
From: baby schroom
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: some of you x's...are...
Message:
'Blessed are the pure in heart
for they shall see God.'
'Make thine eye single
and thy whole body will be full of Light'
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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 07:02:52 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: baby schroom
Subject: some of you x's...are...
Message:
....for they shall see God.
Ok, that's just fine. What's God and why should I want to see it?'GOD' is a meaningless word that has absolutely NO consistant meaning at all! Ask 10 people and you'll get 10 meanings UNLESS THEY'VE BEEN INDOCTRINATED INTO SHARING THE SAME MEANING!

'Make thine eye single
and thy whole body will be full of Light'

More mumbo-jumbo! Skip the part about the single eye (see post above) but what the hell does the rest mean? No one's body is ever full of light (turn out the lights and cut someone open...NO LIGHT...even if their eye is single) except the 'light' of the sub atomic structure of EVERYONE'S BODY and everything else in the cosmos. So where does that leave us?

I'll tell you where: That everything is fundementally built of the same building blocks, light/energy... I.E. everything is everything! So what? So what is the big whoop? Call it God and 'see' it...SO WHAT? I'll call it a Cheeselog and go for a walk...SO WHAT? WHAT IS THE POINT OF ALL THIS 'GOD' AND SPIRITUAL SOCIAL CLIMBING? It is just babble.

'Life is a tale told by an idiot, FULL OF SOUND AND FURY AND SIGNIFYING....NOTHING!'- Willie Shakespear

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 23:24:10 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: baby schroom
Subject: some of you x's...are...
Message:
Premies love to quote: make your eye single and thy whole body will be full of light.' So, tell me, what the hell does 'make your eye single' mean? It don't mean shit, that's what. It is a bad translation. The text actually reads 'if your eye be healthy (or sound, or clear) your body will be filled with light. But what the heck does that mean? Squeezing your eyeballs? Me thinks not.
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 13:50:03 (GMT)
From: Steve
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: ' Strictly speaking , there are no enlightened
Message:
people, there is only enlightened activity.'

A quote recently found by me in a rather excellent book called ' After the ecstasy, the laundry '. That quote was made by an esteemed teacher considered enlightened by many of his students,
the Zen master Shunryu Suzuki. He then went on to start a small motorcycle factory (not really ).

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 15:16:46 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Steve
Subject: ' Strictly speaking , there are no enlightened
Message:
Steve:

Heh... Strictly speaking, isn't semantics fun? But how does one conduct enlightened activity with a dense obtuse sense of awareness?

--Scott

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 11:55:38 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Snot, the tired analogy
Message:
Anon,

Surely the tired analogy is that snot tastes like god, rather than god tastes like snot- if you get my drift. And that one has been doing the rounds for over 30 years at least.

So Anon, do the 'nectar' technique now, and tell me what you taste.

All I'm getting is snot.

Anth the mucoid

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 13:48:14 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Snot, the tired analogy
Message:
Anon,
Surely the tired analogy is that snot tastes like god, rather than god tastes like snot- if you get my drift. And that one has been doing the rounds for over 30 years at least.
So Anon, do the 'nectar' technique now, and tell me what you taste.
All I'm getting is snot.
Anth the mucoid

Well yes I take your point about the tired analogies. However I definately used to get a non snot-like and pleasing -quite intoxicating is not too strong a word- tangible taste from doing the nectar technique. I might add that this was usually in conjunction with, and after, doing all of the technques for a protracted period. Usually at least an hour or more.

So I don't claim to know what's going on here but it is of course possible that my perception was altered by meditation in such a way that I perceived the teaste of snot as a different taste than the regular snot. (Snot doesn't really taste of anything much at all in my experience-let alone pleasant or sweet).

In my honest opinion there was/is a distinct phenomenon in the taste department associated with this nectar technique when done in context with the other techniques.

Regarding your question as to what I taste now when I do the technique (let's see here goes- tongue right up there hang on)
OK yeah.. that's regular snot (I have a bit of a cold which doesn't help)

But I think that I have explained that the sweet taste I used to get was only when I was doing a lot of protracted regular meditation.

Your habitual reference to 'Nectar' being snot merely seems like a 'tired' analogy since you don't appear to acknowledge that there may be something more complex going on here and you say it so often. Perhaps 'tired' is the wrong word. Perhaps 'incomplete explanation' would be a better choice of words. As a joke the frequency of repetition has rendered it less amusing over the passage of time.

Also I think that such frequent derision of the techniques tends to give the impression to premies that you really have not experienced the 'goods' hence perpetrating the even more tired argument that ex-premies opposition to Maharaji is accountable largely to their lack of experience/practice and laziness.

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Date: Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 12:33:11 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Anon
Subject: Snot, the tired analogy
Message:
Thanks for that most enlightening discours Anon.

Maybe we've got a book in here somewhere.

Anth the Wiser and Snottier

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 13:00:04 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Anth, you're too gross to feel such subtle thing!
Message:
Never heard that one?
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Date: Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 12:36:32 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Anth, you're too gross to feel such subtle thing!
Message:
Jean Michel,

I'll have you know I've ascended to the 7th Bardol, fourth stage of liberation, having passed through the clear white light some time ago. My thousand petal lotus is open, and my kundalini is over the road, getting a video out for me.

Disciples at the door, gotta go.

abientot

Shri Anthji of the seventh level.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 12:04:07 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Snot, the tired analogy
Message:
Anth:

You'd tend to taste snot on the center of the tongue, since it's mostly salty and savory, or possibly bitter (the back). The experience of nectar, from what I recall, is mostly on the sides of the tongue. So, there's a case that it's either pure imagination or something other than snot (unless, of course, you have unsavory snot).

--Scott 'who prefers a good cup of joe' T.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 08:23:10 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: baby schroom
Subject: Bad news baby schroom
Message:
Those pretty colours you see when you press your eyeballs is not God.

Concentrating on your breath is not an experience of God.

Nor is listening to the blood flow through your eardrums.

Nor is licking snot.

Just because you believe it's so, doesn't make it so.

It's time to take the bucket off your head baby.

There's a big world full of fun out here.

There's plenty of time to see God when you die. And why did the Creator make the world if we're supposed to hide away from it, and fob it off as 'illusory'.

Anth of the fifth technique

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 06:55:41 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: baby schroom
Subject: may I ask a personal Question?
Message:
How old are you?
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 21:12:31 (GMT)
From: lil'schroom
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: may I ask a personal Question?
Message:
how old are you, Toni ?
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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 01:45:00 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: lil'schroom
Subject: 43 and you? nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 01:56:20 (GMT)
From: lil'schroom
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: 43 and you? nt
Message:
if you look like linda evans..
i'll tell ya
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 05:46:48 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: baby schroom
Subject: Aha!
Message:
If this isn't a hoax post, and you are who I think you are....So you DO LIKE TO READ OUR POSTS and you do find much to value here! I knew it. That's cool and HONEST of you, finally. I think you might be doing a little 'soul searching', maybe. That's cool, we all should try it from time to time.

Just remember that it is not your fault that you have been sold a whole bill of goods, that are very questionable, along with 4 very ancient yoga techniques. We ALL were.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 21:11:11 (GMT)
From: lil'schroom
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Aha!If I wanted to do some soul searching...
Message:
I wouldn't come here to do it
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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 10:34:12 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: lil' turdstool
Subject: Aha!If I wanted to do some soul searching...
Message:
Well please consider going somewhere and doing it then. Thank-you very much.
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 03:15:24 (GMT)
From: Salley
Email: None
To: baby schroom
Subject: some of you x's...are...
Message:
I couldn't agree more baby schroom.
The ex's admit the only thing inside of them is thought.
They never saw any Light of God.
But some of these phony baloney current wannabee's
are downright scarry.
Peace to you baby
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Date: Mon, Sep 18, 2000 at 00:27:35 (GMT)
From: Forum Admistrator
Email: None
To: Salley
Subject: Stop the multi-alias stuff or go away..
Message:
Sally / Baby Scrhoom / Julio / Sppammer da Rapper etc, etc ad nausea...

You turn a pleasant enough admin pastime into a chore. Why not just BE someone and be happy about it? Talk in sentences, perhaps?

Be a credit to your Master - it's about time someone did...

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 10:13:32 (GMT)
From: Anon
Email: None
To: Salley
Subject: Silly Salley!
Message:
I couldn't agree more baby schroom.
The ex's admit the only thing inside of them is thought.
They never saw any Light of God.
But some of these phony baloney current wannabee's
are downright scarry.

Wrong again. Your post is ridiculous.
As a so-called ex I will again say that I did and (occasionally) still do see this light.
Read my virtual lips....

The light I see (at it's most intense) could be equated with my 'being in a room of bright light' and there being a 'feeling of prescence' and 'peace'. This experience has happened prior to hearing about Maharaji (when I used to do the technique at night in bed) and during my premie meditation days too.

Same goes for all the other aspects of the meditation. I thoroughly practiced and experienced them all.

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 07:39:38 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Salley
Subject: some of you x's...are...
Message:
That was a little bit flippant. And inacurate. Plenty of postings have been from ex's who saw or see 'light' when they have meditated! I, for one, have meditated on light before K while on LSD, I have seen light meditating with the K. I have seen light when I had a flash bulb go off in my face, I have seen light when I was poked in the eye.

BUT TO say 'The ex's admit the only thing inside of them is thought' means nothing at all. What is inside of you or some blissful devoted premie? Come on be for real! Do you really think that your experience practising K, which I have practised as well, is so damn different than mine? You are so much more spiritually aware? M 'GIVES' YOU so much more?

Or is it that you are TOLD TO SADDLE SOME GREAT SIGNIFICANCE to it that there is absolutely NO PROOF OF! Why is this light ANYMORE God than ANYTHING ELSE IN THE COSMOS? AND WHAT IS 'GOD'? I really am sick of letting this word 'GOD' be thrown around without challenging just what the hell is meant by it? What does it mean? This word has been used to herd and guilt people into every possible cult and craziness since it's inception...yet what does it mean? NOTHING! A beautiful sunset? What if it rains? Poof! No God? Light? what about the majority of the known cosmos...NO LIGHT! Poof! No God? ETC ETC ETC It means nothing or everything! (Cancer, Hitlers, pain, vomit, torture...blasphemers,everything)
It is quite possibley THE most dangerous word ever uttered!

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 02:10:20 (GMT)
From: la-ex
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 1973 millenium festival setup?prophecies?
Message:
I'm not sure why I was thinking about this today, but does anyone remember the stage setup at millenium,the 'most holy and signifigant event in human history'?

I was up high on a scaffold, doing the lights that lit up the main stage,with a lighting crew that did some of the greatful dead shows from san francisco.

I clearly remember that bal bhagwan ji (now satpal,the other perfect master) had tried to construct the stage to duplicate some of the prophecies from the book of revelations.
For instance, there was the placement of the chairs, with bb seated to the right of the big m (jesus ws sitting at the right hand of god).Then there was some sort of fountain on the stage, which corresponded to something about 'the river of life' .
And there were 24 mahatmas on the stage, which corresponded to '24 elders'...

Does anyone else remember any of this?
Did we really believe any of this?

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 04:53:31 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: 1973 millenium festival setup?prophecies?
Message:
Ah la-ex, I believed all of it, hook, line and sinker. I was on SoulRush. We were told that the Astrodome was going to take off and take the saved souls to a place of peace and serenity. Those not in the Astrodome would be dead. I called my friends to tell them to go to Houston 'or else'. They still laugh at me to this day over those phone calls.

It was Millennium fever.

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 15:33:15 (GMT)
From: Ying
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: Bublegumji is strong on delirium.
Message:
You can tell from PBS video and videos on Satpal site. Probably part of his mental structure. Look at indian superstitions where gods lead everything from traffic to economy. Rawat's got some of that too.
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 08:30:06 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: 1973 millenium - don't forget the aliens
Message:
Hi la-ex,

Wasn't a block of seats reserved for visitors from other planets? And wasn't there a space reserved in the car park for their spaceships to land? I jest not.

I remember Bal Bhagwan Ji telling us ashram premies in London, that if we didn't make it to Houston, we should go to Wales and stay on high ground, because the country was likely to flood in the cosmic maelstrom released by the energy of the festival.

Ah,those were the days. We were expecting the lion to shag the lamb at any moment.

I blame the acid.

Anth the denies everything.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 05:38:55 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: la-ex
Subject: 1973 millenium festival setup?prophecies?
Message:
Now that you mention it I do. It has been so-ooo long. Did you stay at the 'Rainbow Inn', that old Elk's Lodge or whatever it was that was the super-ashram for the big build up to the astrodome? I didn't stay there but I lived just blocks away and spent way too much time there.

Do you remember Bowling-ji's big band, 'Blue Aquarious' (what a horrible name)???? (Bowling-ji was touted as the musical representation of god! Whew!) Watching him 'rock-out' on stage was truly a painful and embarrassing moment.

Do you remember why it was called 'Millenium'. It was because GM was The Christ of The Age and he was ushering in the thousand years of peace that someone wrote about in the bible. But now that scholars are making a very convincing arguement that the historical Jesus never existed (but rather is a composite of various prophets and gods) then that suggests that the whole thing was an even bigger sham!

Wow! Bowly Sreee!

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 11:56:57 (GMT)
From: DeProGram Anand Ji
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: 1973 millenium festival setup?prophecies?
Message:
I remember seeing Blue Aquarius play at the Sylvan Theater on the Monument grounds in Washington DC. Even as a 13 year old
brain washed premie it was apparent to me that 'the Lord of Music' had no real musical talent and was only allowed to be caste in this role because he was M's brother.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 19:22:22 (GMT)
From: TiM
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Fileing and Deportation
Message:
L.Ron Hubbard was a native born U>S> citizen and was deported for
much much less than Rawat can be shown to have scamed. Alas, Hubbard for only five years. I don'y yet know for how long a naturalized citizen can be deported.

Sorry that most of you never were given a taste of the power that Rawat has. Better that Chinmoi. Klemp? Don't know yet. Just getting into Eckankar. Klemp seems to be sane. Rawat and Chinmoi, insane.

Who is the conciousness expert who joined a Tibetan yogi because the yogi transmitted an experience of the final goal? Very well
known. Ah, yes. Ken Wilber. Yes my friends, their are masters who do transmit experiences, as did the insane Mr. Rawat. It seems that Darwin Gross of Eckankar also went insane after going
'higher' than he could handle. Do all yogis go insane ?

Yes, ExTex, I am paranoid schizophrenic. Most human organisms are eventual paranoid schizophrenic to some degree or another.
I mean, just listen to the orthodox litany on this website. The
paranoidschizo always joins in a cultish litany of some type. Thatincludes almost all of us. The trick is to identfy the drift into such 'mind' and work your way back to 'clear'. (Wouldn't L.Ron be proud of me!) But why do I keep citeing authorities? Another passion of the schizo mind. If I don't watch out I'll start quoting God. But why quote myself? Just a little joke their - I hope!

No my earlier recitation of the horror of Rawat's powers does sound like insane rantings. But what else can God do on his day
off? Explain Padre Pio. I dare you. Ten centuries in purgatory
if you explain Pio in an ego state and without compassion.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 02:02:32 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: TiM
Subject: An impression
Message:
Please don't take this the wrong way. Tim if you truly have a problem with schizophrenia then I would recommmend that you put yourself under a doctor's care and get a little stabilized. Understanding of the chemical nature of the mind has made great advances and continues to be an explosive field in medicine.
I would cool it on the exploration of heightening or changing your consciousness until you are able to handle the here and now a little better. This doesn't seem as if it's particularily healthy or beneficial to you. Just my opinion and certainly not intended to hurt you.
Sincerely, Tonette
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 17:47:12 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: Being able to interact with real people here and
Message:

... express freely might be beneficial to TiM, perhaps, Tonette? Perhaps even more beneficial than the tranquilisers the doctors tend to rely on?

There's a lot of rejection involved in the whole issue of mental 'ill-health'. A lot of the isolation suffered by those who have been diagnosed as mentally ill is because the majority have a tendency to shun them. Either from fear, or because they just don't understand what the sufferer is trying to say.

Admittedly you might not have got all of the references TiM made in his post, or agreed with his line of discussion, but if a little integration with the real world happens as a result of him/her posting here (sorry, TiM, don't know your gender), then is that too much to ask of the Forum participants?

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 01:42:25 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: TiM
Subject: Pardon?
Message:
Rawat had only the power that we projected onto him. We made him powerful.

I've never bought all this 'final goal' stuff. If people want to believe there's a final goal then for sure, one can be created. But I don't think it's any more relevant than the final goal in the World Cup. Much less relevant in my opinion.

Look at this logically for a moment. If there was such a thing as a final goal that people had to obtain by some sort of yoga, then the six billion people who inhabit this earth would be out of the running since most of us are not going to follow some obscure Indian guru and perform some strange yogic practices.

Add to this fact the fact that we are a minority species on this planet and definitely in this universe. We are massively outnumbered by beetles, ants, flies, birds, worms, microbes and rats, to name but a few.

There are some people who believe that the animals are more spiritually advanced than we are. This kind of opinion puts things into perspective. We might be the lowest form of life in the universe. It's just arrogance to assume that humans are the next best thing to God or are somehow closer to God than rabbits are.

Assuming there is a God, of course. I remain agnostic until shown otherwise.

There are many trips one can get into. Each one can get very intense. Yoga is just another trip. I found sport to be a far more healthy trip in mind and body. In sport one can achieve goals all along the way and always there's room for improvement. There's real camaraderie in sport. The sporting world was the best one for me. Maharaji's world leads to confusion of all kinds.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 05:22:26 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: BRILLIANT POST, Sir D. (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 08:45:01 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Ooo er missus
Message:
Thanks but I hope that TiM can get a better view of the whole trip; one that is more down to earth and easy.

What do you say TiM?

PS I you're not familiar with British comedian Frankie Howerd, you won't understand the ooo er missus line and you've missed a great comedian.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 00:56:48 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: TiM
Subject: More to the point...
Message:
Titanium Man:

1. I guess I understand your 'If L. Ron then why not Prem Pal?' arguement, sort of. But was L. Ron actually deported, or did he choose to become an expatriot? I thought the latter.

2. I don't know what you mean by insane, or what criteria you're using to determine that. Rawat looks pretty sane to me.

3. What makes you think masters transmit experiences any more than, say, a teacher, instructor or coach? Research (D. Lane) seems to reveal this as attribution.

4. If you genuinely have a problem with schizophrenia I certainly don't want to make light of that. You have my sympathy. Perhaps there's a genetic therapy that will show the way to a cure, but I don't think it's something you can just 'will.' Seriously, it's not a self help sort of illness.

5. I just don't get the statement about God's day off. I thought he watched baseball like everybody else.

--Scott

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 22:04:46 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: TiM
Subject: Flailing and deportment.
Message:
But why do I keep citeing authorities? Another passion of the schizo mind. If I don't watch out I'll start quoting God. But why quote myself? Just a little joke their - I hope!

1. I don't see any citations in your post.
2. If you're going to joke, get some practice.
3. Would you be kind enough to provide a translation for those of us foundering in the wilderness of rationality?
4. Who is Thatincludides, and what do the Greeks have to do with this?

--Scott

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 14:44:21 (GMT)
From: Y argue?
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Crime writer shot in Montreal.
Message:
Crime writer for Montreal tabloid shot in newspaper's parking lot

By attacking one individual, Montréal columnists protest, right to information is targeted and with it, democracy itself is jeopardized.

Awhile ago, when Time magazine published a story about Scientology, harassment by sect members had Time decide never again to publish an article about sects. Right to information and democracy were bloodlessly jeopardized then without columnists attention.

A group of another sect’s ex-members created websites to unveil secret aspects cult they once belonged. In this case, Maharaji, an indian-born self-claimed god-incarnate who managed to dodge limelight for decades obtained opposing websites closed on the base of alleged copyright violations. In a clear case of legal harassment Maharaji’s lawyers omitted returning calls to webmasters who asked for clarifications.

Since Montréal’s crime questions freedom of speech, why do cults’ attack on freedom of speech deosn’t spill columnist’s ink. Has only bloodshed have the press play its role?

http://ca.dailynews.yahoo.com/ca/headlines/cpress/ts/story.html?s=v/ca/cpress/20000913/ts/national_960035_1.html

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:48:52 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Y argue?
Subject: Crime writer shot in Montreal.
Message:
It's a local issue though with the crime-writer. And then Scientology is a massive cult wheareas Elan Vital is tiny and fairly impotent.

I'll answer your email but I'm tied up with things at the moment and we've had a fuel blockade so I've got a limited supply of petrol (gas) in my car.

How's that for a bad excuse.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 15:27:07 (GMT)
From: Y argue?
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Wrong by me
Message:
Same thing.
1) mob tries to silence press
2) scientology tries to silence press
3) rawat tries to silence ex-premies.org

Frontpage question these days in this part of the world:
'will the press be intimidated?'

Government answers:
'this is a war and a wartime law is about to be voted. Just watch.'

I added this other which I emailed to press organizations:
'about being intimidated by cults?'

Just surfing the wave.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 13:31:48 (GMT)
From: Yves' is out to lunch
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Nuremberg Times 'Rawat didn't know about Jagdeo'
Message:
Sorry, I'm mixing stories here.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 13:14:31 (GMT)
From: To Salam
Email: None
To: Salam
Subject: The links you requested
Message:
Salam,

Here are the links you requested:

Advanced Communications Technologies Inc.
http://www.secinfo.com/

MERGER GIVES MFI ACCESS TO NEW WIRELESS INTERNET NETWORK TECHNOLOGY

http://www.findarticles.com/m0EIN/1999_June_2/54769126/p1/article.jhtml

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:37:07 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: To Salam
Subject: Thanks..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 11:26:24 (GMT)
From: Mike Fronke
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: To the unbiased observers who know the whole story
Message:
of my odyssey as Shroomananda and also know Rob.

Was it fair for Rob to publish my name here without my permission? In light of the fact that I had said that I would no longer post here as Shroomananda, was it right for him to get my name from the FA and then publish it in what I think is a taunting way? (I had emailed my name to the FA and asked that it be kept strictly confidential during my initial postings when they had locked me out.)

Is Rob an FA? Is that how he got my name? If not, did the FA give it to him? Was it fair play for him to post my name after I had said that I wouldn't post anymore?

I'd be interested in what some of you who are impartial have to say about this.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 02:10:07 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: For the love of God!
Message:
Give it a rest already! We don't care who you are. So what if you live in San Diego? The way you carry on it wouldn't surprise me to find out that you are some sort of evolved virus from the Moon! You did acknowledge Rob's post and YOU identified yourself. BTY, I thought you said you were never going to post here again. Just a remeinder in case you have debilitating short term memory problems.
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:12:47 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: For the love of God!
Message:
Hey Tonette, you speaketh the truth. This is getting quite bizarre. What is up with this guy? I still think that it goes back to my 3 possible reasons that he is here.

1-It makes him feel like he is practising the 'knowledge'.

2-On a deep level he REALLY does agree with us ex's and he cannot help himself. He really wants to hang with us and share in our postings but he cannot let himself consciously doubt the Master. (I'm leaning towards this one.)

3-He is 'doing service' under orders and no matter what it takes he will find a way to get 'satsang' on this forum in the interest of 'saving' lost premies.

This is getting really strange.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 07:22:39 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: For the love of God!
Message:
I think he's here because he loves to heckle and is basically unbalanced. I would throw in a sprinkling of he probably has some serious doubts about the package he bought too! (#2 reason as mentioned in your post) One would have to have some serious moral/ethical deficiencies to not question EV and M after reading even a micro amout of the information on this site! And judging from the amout of time shroom has spent camped here I don't see how he hasn't read some of it.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 16:59:57 (GMT)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: Sigh... (I do have other things to do, you know)
Message:
Is Rob an FA?

No, Rob has never been an administrator.

Is that how he got my name?

No.

If not, did the FA ive it to him?

No FA has iven it to anybody. (I don't think it is even in the inbox any more - and I certainly wouldn't have committed it to memory to ive it out later.)

Was it fair play for him to post my name after I had said that I wouldn't post anymore?

Given that no mention of 'Shroomananda' was made until you replied under that name, your objection sounds hollow. As others have noted, it appears you outed yourself. Also as noted below - it seems it wouldn't be that difficult to identify the one diehard premie called Mike who fitted your profile on the ELK board.

'd be interested in what some of you who are impartial have to say about this.

We try to remain impartial, but some posters seem determined to get stretchered off.

Forum Administrator

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 17:25:08 (GMT)
From: Let's ask Rob Committee
Email: None
To: Forum Administrator
Subject: How did you get Shroomananda's real name, Rob?
Message:
What's the true story, Rob? And what's your last name?
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 03:54:43 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Let's ask Rob Committee
Subject: I didn't, he volunteered it.
Message:
Actually Mike's posted here before under his real name, more of that later.

First up, all I did was post a sample from ELK Expressions, as is common practice here and a way we poke fun at premies and their silliness. But note this: I did not make ANY reference to 'shroomananda' in that post. So if you had just kept your mouth shut (I thought you'd left here anyway?) no-one would have been any the wiser. Well except me, perhaps....

See now I don't have to practice for 2 hours a day and dedicate my free time in *participation*, I have more time for the fun things in life, like amateur detective work.

You told us your real name was Michael, in a post to the other Michael, the priest:

Date: Mon, Aug 07, 2000 at 06:59:45 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Michael
Subject: We share the same first name, Reverend, but
Message:
that's about all...

A couple of days later you told Jim that you had posted here under your own name....


Date: Thurs, Aug 10, 2000 at 00:13:58 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I guess it doesn't really matter what the 'ex'

Message:premies who remain anonymous say either. Right, Jim? I'll tell you what. If all the 'ex' premies who post anonymously start using their real names, then so will I. Fair enough? I have used my real name but when I did, some of you made fun of me. rather you make fun of my amanuensis than my real name. It's more fun that way.

Made fun of you? Ooh you are a sensitive one. Well now at least we know you like to have fun, so we're in synch, right?

Anyway, it didn't take much brain power to search the archives for any new posters named 'Michael' or 'Mike', before I came across this:

Archive 20000625c.htm

Date: Mon, Jun 19, 2000 at 03:14:10 (GMT)
From: des
Email: desi1970@excite.com
To: Everyone
Subject: advice
Message:

hi everyone, i am seeking some advice.
my new girlfriend is an aspirant and is close to recieving knowledge. is there anything that i should be worried about and can anyone give me some advice about this organisation and what it is all about??? there is something about it all that makes me feel uncomfortable and worried. are my concerns valid???
any advice would be appreciated

Date: Mon, Jun 19, 2000 at 07:11:29 (GMT)
From: Mike Fronke
Email: None
To: des
Subject: advice
Message:

Maharaji's father, Shri Hans Ji Maharaj, said it quite beautifully back in the early 60's. He said, 'It must be clearly understood that only He who can bestow God-vision instantaneously within oneself is the true Master of the time, and no one else.' Quoted from 'Who Is Guru Maharaji?', November 1974, page 284. So I would ask her after she receives Knowledge whether or not she experienced God. I know I did!

Now this rang a bell for 3 reasons. First, we know you own and love to quote from 'Who Is Guru Maharaji':

Date: Tues, Jul 18, 2000 at 19:22:36 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None To: Way
Subject: Thanks but I already have several copies of Who Is
Message:
Guru Maharaj Ji? On page 14 of that book, he also said, which you neglected to mention in your post, 'But what can I do unless men come to me with love in their heart and a keen wish to know peace and Truth?.....

Second, well I'm sure everyone is well aware of your experience of God and how much you love people to know that you have one.

Thirdly, you were prompted to enter the fray (after lurking for a good while, I'm sure) because the question from Des concerned a person who doesn't have Knowledge yet, and we all know how that gets you excited, as I'm sure Stonor will concur.

So anyway, a quick trip to ELK and there was friend Mike again!

But again, the point is I didn't 'out' you, you volunteered the information. Still, all's well that end's well.....'shroomananda may be under curfue, but technically Mike Fronke isn't, right? Now you can carry on sharing your experiences openly, and be proud of it!

Lastly, rest assured that the FA never told me your name. I mean, really, why would they? Sir Dave actually thought I was you at one point (but he has a tendency to do that anyway, 'bless him), so why would they run the risk of outing a person to hiimself, see?

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:04:58 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Epilogue
Message:
The point is I didn't 'out' you, you volunteered the information. Still, all's well that end's well.....'shroomananda may be under curfue, but technically Mike Fronke isn't, right? Now you can carry on sharing your experiences openly, and be proud of it!

Lastly, rest assured that the FA never told me your name. I mean, really, why would they? Sir Dave actually thought I was you at one point (but he has a tendency to do that anyway, 'bless him), so why would they run the risk of outing a person to himself, see?

Now dry your eyes and get back under your blanket. You need to find out if Maharaji's forgiven you and is continuing to *bestow* THAT experience on you.

Oh, and my last name is Anderson. (Should be on the front of my Elan Vital: Safety & Security - Risk File)

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 07:46:24 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Amazing! What a riot. nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:33:43 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Rob
Subject: Well done, Rob!
Message:
Rob, what can I say?

You are beautiful! You are A-OK by me. I still don't know who the hell you are, but that doesn't matter anymore.

You consistently provide good value for every entertainment dollar.

I think we can all, including the newly liberated Shroom, thank you for one of the truly better moments on the Forum - the Self-Outing of the Shroom. Superb! Excellent work!

And whatever you do, please don't 'out' me because I'll lose my job up here at the Rez as chief horticulturist.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:46:02 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Well done, Rob!
Message:
Cool, another *Best Of*? How many's that so far?

Hey and when you've done weeding the heliport, clean up your damn tools will ya, I had to hose them down myself last night.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:50:32 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Rob
Subject: ROB! NOW LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE!
Message:
I'm not sure that I'm in the *BEST* business anymore. Not enough sponsors.

Ok, I'll make you a deal. I'll spray off the tools, but only if I can polish THE Swan on the main gate for the next three weeks.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:59:34 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Or did I just OUT myself? Aww, shit!
Message:
Another job well done, Rob.

Seriously, very well done. Absolutely Perfect!

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 05:04:01 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Thanks Rog,
Message:
and now I'll get on with searching ELK for your posts:)

One day....we'll have a beer or three.

Gotta go.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:58:21 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Oh right, that's Jean-Michel's territory now
Message:
But don't know if he's in the humor business.

So you want to polish my Swan's huh? Well last time you did that I had brasso all over my socks when you came to do pranam. Make sure you wear gloves then, OK?

And fer pity's sake STOP GROVELING, I'm not the Lord of the Universe anymore, and actually never was, geddit?

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:32:23 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: By the way Mike,
Message:
Would you care to elaborate on this remark:

Even if you found out where I live, I can deal with someone like you.

I have absolutely no interest in knowing which particular rock you reside under, but should our paths somehow ever cross, I would enjoy sharing a pot of coffee and some of life's experiences with you. How 'bout yourself?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 17:46:39 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: None
To: Let's ask Rob Committee
Subject: Is that Mr Letsaskrobcommittee Smith? (nt)
Message:
wecwe
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 21:45:05 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: I don't know where Rob is gone,
Message:
perhaps digging up some more stuff. Ever heard of the term data mining. I think that is what Rob is, a miner. Give him some credit and stop listinnig to Mr ferggie crying murder. He is still hijaking threads and PISSING ME OFF.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 16:16:45 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: I hope this doesn't screw up your access weekends
Message:
I know there must be so many reasons you want to post anonymously here but under your own name on the cult page. I just can't think of any good ones.

Well?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 16:06:11 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: Oh, now I see. This is truly hilarious!
Message:
You outed yourself, idiot!

That is so fucking funny. I'll never forget this one.

Almost as good as this:

Hans Jayanti attracts large international audience

International attendance at the Indian mega-event, Hans Jayanti 2000, looks set to be greater than for many years. Registrations went past 1200 last weekend.

The three-day event, 6,7 and 8 November, celebrates the 100th anniversary of the birth of Shri Maharaj Ji, Maharaji's father and master.

For reports on the 1998 and 1999 events go to the 'Electronic Times' section of this site.

(my emphasis)

1200? 1200? Why, I have more people than that over at my place on any average Friday night! And is he including Satpal's contingent? I mean, he was his dad too, wasn't he? Can anyone come? Sounds like they'd welcome that.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 16:00:57 (GMT)
From: tic tic tic tic tic tic
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: tic tic tic tic tic tic tic tic tic tic tic tic
Message:
tic tic tic tic tic tic tic
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:56:53 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: Ha ha! Serves you right, asshole! (IMHO, natch)
Message:
This whole anonymity thing is a much ....hm, may I? -- ABUSED practise. I, for one, don't think of the 'work' the ex-premies are doing here as a cricket game. I DO think it's absolutely fantastic that now you can deal with anyone in the real world who knows you and knows how idiotic and superficial your defences of Maharaji have been.

Here's teh point, and it's my main point:

If, by some small chance, you catch even a little heat from your fellow cult members for posting here and sounding like a fool, GOOD!

Ha ha ha ahahaaaaaaaa ....choke (I think I might be getting a bit of a cold. Hopefully not) ...cough ...hahahahaha

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 12:51:29 (GMT)
From: John Tucker
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: as an outsider who knows the whole story
Message:
I have very little respect for what you say. It's like you turned up at a party and crashed about like a borish fart with a bee in his bonnet, ignoring the protestations of your hosts and the distress of other party goers. You hardly engaged in sincere and open dialogue, did you?

So you got asked to leave. But you crashed right back in. And again. And again. Eventually, people here were so fed up with you you got ridiculed and trashed. So what do you expect? You displayed your contempt in the way you treated this resource with a cavalier disrespect. Try that at a program, pal.

No Mr Fronke, your projection of an injured innocent has the smell of swamp toad about it. It won't wash here. You should be ashamed of the way you have behaved - and ashamed of your dishonesty in trying now to wrap yourself in a matyr's shroud. You're behaving now just as I predicted! (in my post You should be ashamed below).

You have said many times you were leaving - yet here you are again. What's the attraction, Mr Fronke? You have other places to go. Or are you as much of a liar as your 'Master', Prem Pal Rawat?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 12:10:46 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: You 'outed' yourself!
Message:
I don't know where Rob got your name, Shroom, but it seems to me he didn't 'out' you. You outed yourself. Expressions from ELK get posted here all the time (at least the funnier ones), and unless you had pointed it out in the post underneath, I don't think anyone would have made the connection.

Anyway, it's interesting you don't mind premies knowing your full name on ELK, but clearly feel uncomfortable about being personally associated with your own words when posting here. But understandable, I guess.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 00:48:47 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: You 'outed' yourself!
Message:
I think what really bothers Shroom is that now they know. Y'know, his cult buddies at ELK? Shroom didn't want that to leak out. But now it has. And ain't that just too fucking bad? How's poor little Shroomie going to pretend that he has no time to spend anywhere else on the internet but ELK now that they know he spends ALL of it here? I say he deserved to be outed, the phony bastard. And you're right, Nigel, the dumb fuck did out himself. I never would have made the connection between Fronke and Shroom, either, if he hadn't filled us in.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 18:56:39 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Shroo outed himself - too right!
Message:
All Rob said (after quoting the ELK bit) was:

'Now there's a premie who has his priorities straight! No messing around on any nasty 'ex' sites for him, eh? '

Who on earth would have connected that with Shroo, without Shroo himself volunteering the information that Mike Fronke was indeed he?

Mike Fronke might be looking to play the victim. But he has only himself to blame. (If blame is what he wants, ... some of us might even congratulate him for coming out of anonymity, if only he'd done it intentionally).

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 11:47:20 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: IS NOT RIGHT FA!!
Message:
To me, you can be a jerk sometimes and annoying, but that was not fair!! The FAs don't seem to take 'their jobs' seriously.

bye

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 23:01:14 (GMT)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: What is not right?
Message:
SB: I recommend you read all the posts in this thread before accepting people's accusations without question - especially those of people you regard as 'jerks' :)

Thanks
FA

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 11:42:26 (GMT)
From: An impartial observer
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: To the unbiased observers who know the whole story
Message:
Compared to EV sites and Maharaji's site, this place is heaven in terms of fairness and free expression. As far as I have seen no EV/Maharahi site allows real ineraction. EV have no dialogue and Maharaji says he will answer questions which he does,but only the ones he wants to answer. And even then in a very general-non-commital form.

His silence on allegations against him and his employees has gone very much against him and his knowledge.

If the worst thing someone on this site has done is give away someone's name, then it is one of the best sites on the net.

Please note that according to Hans Ji Maharaj, imartiality brings devotion, so Mike I suggest you try applying the same values to EV/Maharaji that you are demanding from the exs here.

Bye.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 11:37:20 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: To the unbiased observers who know the whole story
Message:
It's unseemly to betray a confidence. It also means that other people won't trust the betrayer with confidences in the future.
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:18:47 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: No confidences were betrayed, Dave
Message:
Please see my answer above. Sorry it was late coming, but I do actually HAVE a day job!

regards,

Rob

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 13:16:19 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: To the unbiased observers who know the whole story
Message:
David:

I agree. But is that what happened, or was it just a little conventional detective work?

--Scott

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 13:44:14 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Scott T.
Subject: Or inspired guesswork..?
Message:
I just flipped through the back pages of ELK 'expression' since the site was set up. (I even held on to my stomach.) I found just three 'Mike's who have ever posted there (disregarding 'Michaels' and 'Micks'). The other two Mikes were clearly not Shroomananda because of detail they gave (wrong country or wrong date receiving Knowledge).

Rob may have just taken a guess on Mr Fromke, and baited a trap here, knowing Shroom wouldn't be able to resist showing up if he saw his name published..?

But apart from that sort of thing, I'm not sure what sort of 'conventional detective work' you could otherwise do. But the above would probably work well enough given it's a pretty safe assumption that Mr Shroom will have posted to ELK at some time.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:20:15 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Baited a trap, Nigel?
Message:
What MUST you think of me?
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:37:52 (GMT)
From: Michael
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Or inspired guesswork..?
Message:
I think that Mr. Fromke outed himself and we should not spend anymore time worrying about it. I hope that the FA's choke collar for Shroomananda also applies to Mr. Fromke, follower and enjoyer of the world's funniest pilot and watchmaker.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:57:31 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Michael
Subject: Or inspired guesswork..?
Message:
It's just so funny the way that having told ELK that they were the only site worth spending any time on, he spends hours per day hanging around here instead... (and never send the ELKies another 'expression', even after promising them)

Funny too the way gets SO uptight and self-righteous whilst pretending he is having a blissful - presumably ego-free -experience... and funny how he admonishes everybody here for failing to acknowledge that... And funny the way he can retire more often than Frank Sinatra but imagines people won't start laughing at him when he starts his come-back tour the very next day.

Assuming the choke collar will apply to MF, it looks like he's had today's three-posts-worth.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 00:28:58 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Nigel
Subject: This is all so INSPIRED! Lila is what it is!
Message:
This is really a total hoot!

Thank you all for the laugh, especially the Shroom.

Shroom, you definitely outed yourself as speculated.

Too funny.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 07:04:38 (GMT)
From: DeProgram Anand Ji
Email: sharkdc@aol.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Looking For Pics of DLM/GM
Message:
Oddly, Iam sort of nostalgic about this period of my life. If any one has any pics of the 70's, DLM, premies,festivals ect. I would appreciate you scanning them and sending them to me.

Thanks A Million,
DeProGram Anand Ji

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 13:59:52 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: DeProgram Anand Ji
Subject: Damn I was too poor
Message:
to own a camera and if I did I was much too poor to develop the film. Sorry.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 20:18:53 (GMT)
From: Agent Everglades
Email: None
To: DeProgram Anand Ji
Subject: Looking For Pics of DLM/GM
Message:
Look no further: Lot's of FREE Pictures
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 03:58:11 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Agent Everglades
Subject: Looking For Pics of DLM/GM
Message:
I would like to venture my opinion about your request, and I am not trying to be offensive. I really am not.
It seems that if you are trying to deprogram yourself from the cult and M's influence over you then I would suggest that being nostalgic about it might not be a good thing to reinforce.

Nostalgic about old friends and lovers I can understand but nostalgia about M and the cult sounds an awfull lot like you are trying to find a way to have your cake and eat it too.

For me, it seems the best thing to do...as with a bandaid that is stuck...is to just rip it off and be done with it. Why prolong your indoctrination by dwelling on the nostalgia about those times and experiences? You are going to be full of feelings that will be possibley rekindled by the very indoctrination to feel good about M in the first place. If you are serious about ditching the cult....CUT IT LOOSE...and get a fresh perspective on what you've been through! It sounds like you are still hanging on and have a 'soft spot for the good side of the rascally guru. Don't go there!

Just my opinion.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 17:40:11 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Nostalgia ad nauseum, maybe.
Message:
ExTex:

In as few words as possible, I don't think your idea will work. I'd say there was a great deal about that era that was good for me, and I do miss some of the genuiness I experienced even if I was completely mistaken about it having been generated or mentored by M. Although nostalgia can be overdone, I find that performing an amputation of part of my life usually leaves me handicapped in some way. Well, maybe that wasn't in as few words as possible.

--Scott 'I mostly miss being 25.' T.

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 05:51:01 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Nostalgia ad nauseum, maybe.
Message:
Oh, I certainly understand what you are saying. I had so many WONDERFUL experiences. I met so many premies that I fell in love with. I went to places and saw things that I probably would not have experienced if I wasn't involved in the cult. I had ecstaticly 'high' and emotional interactions with wonderful people. I learned how to live communally and give of myself more than I thought I could. All kinds of things that I can feel very nostalgic about.

But these things were not because M was god or because of HIS grace or because HE was making these things happen. It was because I WAS LETTING THESE THINGS HAPPEN AND AT THE SAME TIME GIVING THIS GUY THE CREDIT NEGATING MY OWN EXPERIENCE!

Now every time I let myself start feeling all nostalgic about it: 1- I am not living in the present. 2- M's face pops up in the middle of it all, smilimg away and being that center of attention as I was indoctrinated to feel...or at least I run the risk of that happening! And THAT IS A DISTORTION OF WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. It is on an emotional level and even unconscious. Why would I want to have pictures of him and his events? What I thought was happening then was not what was happening! You probably can't find photos of what was REALLY happening...just the old memories that are laden with indoctrination. What is the point??? It is a 'funhouse mirror'...distorted.
Why run the risk of feeling all warm and fuzzy about then...move on to now! Sure it was part of my life but NOW IS MORE IMPORTANT!
Maybe I am being too rigid. Jim? Tonette? Sir Dave? cq? and the rest of the gang...Am I?

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Date: Mon, Sep 18, 2000 at 18:20:40 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Nauseum toward nostalgia, maybe.
Message:
Now is more important, Ex-Tex, for sure

But what we are now is also the product of the past.

I'm not suggesting we get stuck in nostalgia, or reminiscences of the way we were. Far from it. But until and unless we can truly DEAL with our past, integrate it into present reality, and then move on ... I guess what I'm trying to say in a nutshell is: denial won't work.

We WERE premies. We believed that God was incarnate on this earth in the form of Prem Pal Singh.

THAT

is one major trip to have to live with the consequences of.

Others might think us fools for believing as we did. Some of us can handle that.

Others, (like Jim, perhaps?) seem to be unable to admit that we were stupid for believing in Mr Rawat, and consequently get their kicks from treating current premies with all the disgust they actually feel for themselves, for having been so stupid as to treat Rawat as the actual Messiah.

For myself, I'm obviously not finished with this trip, even though it's now nearly a quarter of a century since I left the ashram. When I first posted here, about a year ago, I could hardly even LOOK at the two pictures of the Maha that adorned the ex-premie.org title page. A year on, and I'm coming to terms with what he is and what he represents for me.

Pictures are worth a thousand words, they say, (and cliches about a dozen) - and to be able to look at a picture of the world's No. 1 con-artist, the King of Beggars, and to actually feel some compassion for the poor fool, ... well, I consider that to be a step toward healing the damage that he instigated, and I allowed to be done to me.

Hmmmm ....

Are you being too rigid?

I don't know, that's for you to decide. But watch out for the denial.

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Date: Mon, Sep 18, 2000 at 04:52:35 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Nostalgia ad nauseum, maybe.
Message:
And THAT IS A DISTORTION OF WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. It is on an emotional level and even unconscious. Why would I want to have pictures of him and his events? What I thought was happening then was not what was happening! You probably can't find photos of what was REALLY happening...just the old memories that are laden with indoctrination. What is the point??? It is a 'funhouse mirror'...distorted.
Why run the risk of feeling all warm and fuzzy about then...move on to now! Sure it was part of my life but NOW IS MORE IMPORTANT!

Well, I can't say I'm much interested in seeing pictures of M, etc. I've been away from that for so long that I can look at it somewhat objectively, without feeling any danger of slipping back. And it did help me resocialize after the shipwreck of the 60s. Most of the experience I had in DLM was beneficial. This was probably due to the fact that I had the good fortune to leave before things got really repressive. But, for some people at least, reliving some of that experience through pictures might help them recall enough that they can let go of the bad and still keep some part of their lives: reclaim some of what was stolen while rejecting the theif.

(OT) I waited up for the late night coverage of the Olympics and what do I get for my patience and effort? Women's Water Polo. Gosh, this is fun. Would like to see some rowing though. The Kiwi Rob Waddell is becoming a legend. A guy with heart arythmia is the best single sculler in the world, and perhaps of all time. Steven Redgrave is set to win his fifth gold medal. Supposedly the US has a chance in Men's Eights... but maybe that's just wishful thinking. Well, back to water polo... (sigh).

--Scott

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 12:08:53 (GMT)
From: DeProGram Anand Ji
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Looking For Pics of DLM/GM
Message:
Thanks for exspressing your views/concerns about my rekindling or triggering my cult programming by veiwing pictures of the cult.
You have to understand that I have not been to any DLM events since the late seventies. I have been out of the cult for over twenty years. I am simply trying to recall what things were actually like and see if I can recognize anyone I use to know in the pictures.
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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 06:04:12 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: DeProGram Anand Ji
Subject: Looking For Pics of DLM/GM
Message:
I can understand that, my friend. It wasn't clear to me, from your post, just what your interest was. I have been out of the cult since late 70's early 80's....but it sometimes seems like yesterday.
Just be careful because this kind of indoctrination goes VERY VERY DEEP. You may be through with THAT devotional guru trip but the nostalgic longing cultivated could make a similar situation seem tempting and 'different'...appealing...oh so right. (In search of fulfilling indoctrinated longings).
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 10:05:17 (GMT)
From: Xamanda
Email: None
To: DeProgram Anand Ji
Subject: Looking For Pics of DLM/GM
Message:
yeah...I has a pic o'kissome
with a guy wearing a cardboard thing on his nose.
how much would you pay ?
it's not a very good picture, i isn't any good at that
but it's still a picture..
you know..sitting on a blanket, in the hot sun,
waitng for the words of wisdom
i has a couple of pictures..
$50 bucks ea.
originals...i doesn't need them
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 12:11:00 (GMT)
From: DeProGram Anand Ji
Email: None
To: Xamanda
Subject: Looking For Pics of DLM/GM
Message:
not looking to puchase them you goof ball. But thanks anyway.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 05:54:09 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Non-Posting Ex-Premies
Subject: Hey Ex's That Just Read This Forum...
Message:
If you have been reading this forum but for whatever reason have never posted on it...
Why don't you consider jumping in and making yourself known? It is really rather painless and we might all gain by your added vocal presence here.
I, for one, would welcome more input from more EX-premies. Come on. I encourage you to talk with us. I know you are out there.
(Our bark is worse than our bite)
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 02:25:39 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Posting can be confronting
Message:
When I originally got turned on to this site and started reading this forum 2 months ago I really couldn't believe my eyes! I thank those that launched this site and those that maintain it. So much of what is shared here is personal and revealing. I've seen responses to sincere threads and posts that I thought were hurtful. My advice to people who would like to post and are shy or afraid is to take some of this with a grain of salt and to not be too sensitive.
Some days here it appears as if there's more premies posting than ex-premies. Some days I wonder exactly whose forum it is. But the premies do add much color and entertainment, usually.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:10:41 (GMT)
From: Suchabanana
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Hey Ex's That Just Read This Forum...
Message:
Yes, please, folks --


P.S. I appreciated your earlier response, too, ExTex

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 04:49:49 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Premies are you wasting your time here?
Message:
You should take an example from your brother-in-his-love:

From ELK Expressions

Just wanted to say hello and tell you all that you did a really excellent job on this
new web site! Finally, something on the Internet worth spending my precious time
viewing! I plan on visiting often and perhaps adding to your already large list of
sayings that I saw. Keep up the good work.

Mike Fronke

Now there's a premie who has his priorities straight! No messing around on any nasty 'ex' sites for him, eh?

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:38:02 (GMT)
From: Mike Fronke
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: No, I didn't waste my time here. I said my piece.
Message:
Don't want to rehash anything. I won't be visiting here any longer. Hope someone benefitted from my visits here. Maybe we'll see some of you at a future event. If not, take good care of yourselves. I wish you all good luck on your future endeavors. Just as long as they don't bring problems to my teacher. It's time to move along now. Shroomananda bids you adieu.
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 19:07:10 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: 'Just as long as they don't bring problems to my-'
Message:
have you ever considered the idea, Shroomanchew, that your 'teacher' has been sheltered from problems by his faithful premies far too long to benefit him?

The guy has, some day, got to face up to the kind of real life that the rest of us lead.

.
.

PS
I wonder how many problems you've given him to think about?

.
.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 14:00:39 (GMT)
From: hal
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: No, I didn't waste my time here. I said my piece.
Message:
All the best to you Mike. I know you profess that you enjoy the scene at present but if you ever need to break free then I'm fairly confident that even those here who have engaged in heated dispute with you, including myself,will be available to support you.

Namaste,
Steve

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Date: Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 05:10:33 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Ditto...w/some o dem luv vibes! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 05:03:01 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: Do you know how alone you really are?
Message:
Reading your farewell, Mike, made me a little sad. No, honestly. It dawned on me that, when it comes right down to it, you've got one one to really talk to. You can't talk with us without keeping up this ridiculous guard -- the one that makes people so readily despise you here, all we see is this shield of willfull disregard for all of the nuance of our shared experience. It's as if you've stripped away ever last harmonic of a tone, all the subtle variances, and are simply uttering one constant, uninteresting pitch. But you hvae to do that because you can't possibly afford to open up here. You know that, we know that, everyone knows that.

But then here's the thing -- you can't very well talk with premies either! You can't get into any deep conversations, like really trying to put your cards on the table and discuss yourself, life, etc., because there are just too many doubt traps and too many woefully untethered,loose ends in the 'Maharaji Saga' (before your time, at least, he used to riff forever on that word, 'Saga'. Even then I kind of found it a bit wanting but it was always stupid.)

You guys can't talk openly with each other anymore than you can with us!

And so you adopt an attitude that adapts to that kind of avoidance. It's not so hard because it's not as if most people go around talking philosphically that much these days anyway. But the problem is that you do think philosophically -- in a weird, twisted cult way -- all the time. That's what all that guru shit's about.

But you just can't talk with each other openly about it.

Can you?

So, maybe you guys are more ghostlike than I'd earlier imagined. Honestly, what do you think? Huh, Mike?

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 17:29:31 (GMT)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: drek@oz.net
To: Jim
Subject: Excellent point, Jim. And I was there recently.
Message:
Indeed! I stuck with the cult for way too many years and only left recently in 1997 or so.

From the beginning to the end there was the avoidance of being openly too human and sharing your personal joys and woes with other premies. Oh, it was sort of ok to share joy or woe with premies, but it always had to be reformatted into cult-speak where the source of joy came from Knowledge and Maharaji and woes came from the MIND.

Yes, one becomes very isolated because eventually your entire being is saturated with this stunted world view that Maharaji imparts along with four simple meditation techniques. And, don't let me forget to mention that the Knowledge (the four meditation techniques) are FREE! Maharaji never charges a penny for his Knowledge. Nope, nothing. However the real cost is when the premie absorbs Maharaji's stunted world view and everything and I do mean everything is seen in terms of joy comes from Maharaji and trouble comes from the MIND. And this is how Maharaji enslaves people. This brainwashing is the sick and evil side of Maharaji's FREE Knowledge.

And it would appear that Premie communities are being dissolved and dissipated as the cult moves towards satellite broadcasts. And Maharaji would prefer that premies don't socialize with each other. In fact, at a program in the 90's Maharaji pretty much discouraged people from socializing at programs by saying that such should not be the purpose of the events. Rather the purpose of the events should be to focus only on Maharaji. And it was around this time when videos of beach scenes and mountain streams with a voice over of Maharaji reading his most profound poetry first started appearing. It was so hokey with Maharaji reading his crappy lame-o poetry in his best cognac and cigarette tempered and whispered voice. As a seasoned premie who was obviously fatally flawed and not a true believer I was squirming in my seat with embarrassment that someone would publicly present something so awful. But it didn't matter to Maharaji because he would use the time that premies were watching these poetry readings to make his escape from the hall.

Anyway, I think that Jim is correct in saying that Mike and many premies are alone and don't have anyone to talk to in a manner that really revs them up devotionally. Such heavy 70's and 80's devotional discourse is pretty much forbidden in the new kinder and gentler world of Maharaji where he is no longer God. For me the local video scenes, and especially the Introductory Videos, were completely devoid of any real substantive human feeling. The atmosphere was dry and completely stifled as everyone tried to adhere to the very carefully crafted program that was coming from Maharaji and Elan Vital. And we had some of those internal documents from Elan Vital that dictated how things should be. It's no wonder why Elan Vital had their lawyers to go after the ex-premies to get those documents off of the Internet.

Finally, premies are all dressed up with nowhere to go. Such a pity. No wonder they come here to the Ex-Premie Forum where they can openly express themselves. There is Enjoying Life with Knowledge (ELK) where carefully screened and vouched for premies can submit a poem or an expression providing that such is acceptable within the guidelines. And, of course, the ELK editors might change the words, meaning, and content, but they have their reasons. No talk of Guru is greater than God going on there, no sir. Do they even talk about God on ELK? So, what is a good old fashioned premie to do except come here and satsang us to death. Whoa, I'm feeling sorry for these people. That's completely pathetic. Look at what Maharaji is doing to these people! It's sick.

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Date: Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 19:22:01 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: So true, premies have become autistic! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 19:55:02 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Jean-Michel *** BEST OF*** !!!(nt) ps, thanks Roj
Message:
dghgf
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 07:58:46 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: That is so sad
Message:
but incrediably perceptive and so very true. Maybe you should switch fields and go into counseling.
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:43:18 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: Oh by the way,
Message:
I was just kidding about emailing your stuff to EV, so you can relax. Good job they don't read the forum, though, eh?

I think we all benefitted in some way, if only to be thankful we have freed ourselves from the mindset you appear to be in.

Seriously though, I wish you God speed and may you ultimately find the Truth you obviously crave.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 23:36:33 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: What a bullshit artist!
Message:
He'll say fucking anything, won't he? Thanks, Rob. That was precious. Shroom talking about how he finally has a place to spend his precious time (not here, of course), speaks volumes of where this fucker is at. Not a bone of sincerity in him. Shroom... fuck you.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:21:17 (GMT)
From: Shroomananda
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Do you want me to give the FA my address and
Message:
phone number too? That way you can get them from the FA and publish them here.

Okay, Rob, you've had your fun. You've outed me. I could care less. You want to waste your time some more? I thought you had some morals. Oh well. I should have known better.

Yes, my name is Mike Fronke. I live in San Diego. I am a person who has received Knowledge from Maharaji. I practice it and I listen to him. I'd post my picture but I don't have a scanner. Any of you exes who are posting anonymously want to come out with your real names?

Be sure to tell Rob or the FA so that he can publish them. Or better yet, do it yourself. You'll feel much better. Of course, you could always give Maharaji another listen. Or practice Knowledge. That would be an even better use of your time.

You really are a small-minded person, aren't you, Rob? But that's OK. I meet people like you all the time. Even if you found out where I live, I can deal with someone like you.

Shroomananda is dead. Rob killed him. This is his last post. Satisfied, Rob? Want to come to his funeral, Rob? Just tell me the time and the place, and I'll be there with his body. You can bring some flowers. So that you can pay him your respects. And I can pay mine to you. I'd suggest some pansies, Rob. They kind of fit your style.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:27:28 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: I think you scored an own goal there, pal. NT
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 00:19:46 (GMT)
From: Internet Phone Search
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Is that the San Diego branch of the Shrooms?
Message:
It's so nice to meet you in person.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 13:56:18 (GMT)
From: Yves' siamese brother
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: How come Miss Piggy is still here?
Message:
I thought you said you had left. I see you were wrong when you said that. As everyone know, 'Right is right and left is wrong.' Right?
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 08:05:25 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: Question Mike
Message:
Hi Mike,

It's not so hard to use your real name is it? Well done.

I don't know if you noticed, but when you posted as Shroomananda you indicated that you posted here because you liked to discuss your master and his 'knowledge' I asked you a question, but you didn't reply, so I thought I'd ask again.

Here's my original post.

Hi Shroo,
I've not had much chance to look in on the forum recently, but I couldn't help but notice your post claiming you like discussing your master and his 'gift'.

I've not been following your posts, but my experience tells me you'll dodge the question, but what the hell, I'm an eternal optimist (you have to be to follow Maharaji as long as I did).

Anyway, here's your starter for ten points.

I've got a book published by Divine Light Mission, called 'Eternal is He, Eternal is His Knowledge'. In the back of the book are lots of Indian poems, supposedly written by 'Saints'. One of them, describing the 'Perfect Master' goes something like this:

'I found the greatest of fortunes when I met my Satguru.
All my troubles disappeared from mind.
He has set me free from the bondage of life and death,
and saved me from the cycle of rebirth.'
Something about his lotus feet that I can't remember, then...
'Truly his importance is greater than God.'

What I'd like to know Shroo', is what do you think of the poem, particularly the last line.

I'll gladly answer any of your questions in return.

Anth (still stuck in the cycle of birth and death)

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 11:11:50 (GMT)
From: Mike Fronke
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Answer to Anth
Message:
Since you've asked so nicely, I'll answer.

First of all, what do I know about God? I don't know about God. I don't know who I am, let alone God. In the scriptures, doesn't it say that God is infinite, beyond our mind, etc.? Are we talking about an infinite spirit that is eternal and that is everywhere including within me?

All I know is that I was looking for something. I wanted to know the fundamental questions about life. Who was I? Who was God? What was life all about? I was not looking for a teacher or a 'Satguru'. I just wanted to know. But right before I heard about Maharaji, I sort of gave up. I told myself that I guess you never find out. You just make the best of it. Try to live a good life. Meet a nice woman, settle down, have a family and then when you're all done you die and then you find out.

I did get into astrology right before Knowledge. It made sense that if God existed, he wouldn't just give you one shot and then poof, either heaven or hell. Why were people born blind or disabled? Why did some people live in poverty all their lives? Karma made sense to me. So I was determined to do the best I could with my life and maybe God would grace me. I didn't really want a teacher. I thought that I could do it myself.

Anyway, to make a long story short, I heard about Maharaji, decided to investigate if only to eliminate him as a possibility, and when I finally was told I could receive Knowledge, I was prepared either way. If the Knowledge was real, then I had my answer. If not, then I could move along. I really had nothing to lose one way or another. I really didn't feel anything about Maharaji, good or bad. I did have a few pretty incredible experiences while I was aspiring but I withheld judgement until I received Knowledge. That was the test for me.

All I really know is that before Knowledge, I didn't know what life was all about. After Knowledge, it really didn't seem important to know what life was about. I felt peace. I saw light within me. I was totally prepared to move on if Knowledge didn't work for me. But it did. I still don't know who God is. I don't know who Maharaji is. I don't know who I am. But I feel something now and I don't feel like I'm missing anything. I love to listen to him.

While going home from my first satsang event where I had seen a video of Maharaji, I told myself that that guy knows something. That hasn't changed for me. He knows something. Is he greater than God? Beats me. Is he Satguru? I don't know. That's what I find so hard to understand with many I've seen here. Why would anyone believe that he is the 'Lord of the Universe' in the first place? How could you and the others here even judge that? To me, he showed me something peaceful, loving and joyous within me. Isn't it just a concept to say that he is the Lord or Knowledge takes me to God? Maybe it does, but how can a finite, mortal being know one way or the other about God or who is greater than God or who the Master is? It says that by their fruits you will know them. Knowledge is the fruit. It is either peaceful or it's not. You either enjoy it or you don't.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 08:15:36 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: Thanks Mike
Message:
Hi Mike,

Thanks for your thoughtful and honest answer. I'm surprised you had the courage to address my question directly too. Most premies dodge them.

So, from what you say in the last paragraph, the bit where you actually answer what I asked, you wrote, 'Is he greater than God? Beats me. Is he Satguru? I don't know.'

Mike, what you're saying to me here, sounds like you believe that this bloke in Malibu, with a private jet, who tried to close all our websites down a few weeks ago, may be greater than the Creator of the Universe.

How do you think that sounds to a sane, objective, normal person, or even to a psychiatrist?

In the first paragraph you say you don't know who you are. Then you tell me maybe you still believe some of the stuff about Guru is Greater than God, and Satguru and all that. Obviously, if you're a premie, these subjects have some importance in your life. Just like they did, and still do in my life.

So Mike, why don't you do yourself a favour? Why don't you just think about things objectively for a few minutes?

Because there is a perspective, where everything makes sense. Try looking at our situation from this perspective. Shit, you can always go back to the old one if you don't like it. But I suspect that in your heart you know the truth already- which is that nobody ever goes back, once they've seen it all fit into place.

It's time to look at things a fresh Mike. Life will still be there. You’ll just see things a bit differently.

It’s a breath of fresh air, honest.

sincerely,
anth ginn

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 18:55:32 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: If a hole became a molehill.
Message:
So, you wanted to know the fundamental questions about life. Who you were? Who was God? What was life all about? And then you met your teacher, your Guru Maharaji. And in answer to AJW's question you begin by responding: 'I don't know about God. I don't know who I am, let alone God.' Priceless.
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 04:33:54 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Scott T.
Subject: Dave, this is one for your new page. NT
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 17:31:18 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: Amnesia
Message:
Why would anyone believe that he is the 'Lord of the Universe' in the first place? How could you and the others here even judge that?

OUR LORD IS THE MAKER OF ALL THINGS CREATED
HE KEEPS THEM AND BRINGS THEM BACK HOME TO HIS WORD
OUR LORD'S THE SUPERIOR POWER IN PERSON
I BOW DOWN BEFORE SUCH A WONDERFUL LORD...

Straight answers, Shroom:

Did you used to sing this song..?

If so, was it:

- several times?
- one thousand times?
- maybe every night, year in, year out for a decade or more between the end of satsang and prostrating yourself before his picture?

(1) Did you believe what you were singing?

(2) Would you feel happy singing it again if The Maharaji advised it would be good for your practice of The Knowledge?

Posing a simple question to you is a bit like trying to shovel wet spagetti up a wild-cat's arse (not that you'd want to...)
But guess there's no harm in trying: it is the things you fail to answer which, for me, are the most instructive.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 20:00:42 (GMT)
From: Mike Fronke
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: I never sang that song, Nigel.
Message:
I received Knowledge on May 2, 1982 in a Los Angeles ashram. I did try to sing along on several occasions in Miami at a big event but I didn't know the words.

My point is that even if I believe that Maharaji is the Lord and he showed me God within myself, does that make it a fact? Can anyone know one way or the other? If God appeared to me, what would he look like? If he had a face and a voice, how would I know he was God? If he was just a big white gob of energy, how would I know?

To me, it boils down to devotion. How much do I love my creator? Before Knowledge, I loved God but in a kind of vague way. After Knowledge, my love has increased. It is more focused. It is more grateful. It is more peaceful. Do I know God? No. But I do feel much love for Him. I attribute that to Knowledge and to Maharaji. He awakened my thirst. And helped me to quench it. And continues to do so.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 20:02:29 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: WHO are you trying to devote yourself to, Mike?
Message:
.
.
Would the (real) Lord of the Universe (if such a creature exists) want you to humiliate yourself at the feet of the like of Mr Rawat?

If so, WHY?
.
.
.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 16:09:09 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: U could say the exact same thing about a labotomy
Message:
This is particulary rich, Fronke:

All I really know is that before Knowledge, I didn't know what life was all about. After Knowledge, it really didn't seem important to know what life was about.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:28:42 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: To Mike Fronke
Message:
Mike,

I have followed your posts here. To be frank, I was nearly always disgusted by your posts as Shroom. There was a basic dishonesty to them. It was combat, not communication. Your post above, about the outing of your name, is still very combative against Rob, and still very Shroom-like. But this one. This one is a little different.

There's very little to object to here, in your answer to Anth's question. People want answers, naturally enough. People want comforting, naturally enough. People must grapple, some way or another, with the hardships of human life.

We learn, eventually, to give up. What else can we do? We can't make life different than the way it is. Reality always wins. No exceptions. So we accept. Eventually.

But the battle is not yet done. We can accept grudgingly and bitterly, or we can accept peacefully. Not till we accept peacefully is the work done. You say of all this yourself in your post. And I concur.

But I must defer my agreement in regard to the need for a teacher. The true maturity is never found in life, as long as we give credit for our own connection to our inner truth to some other human being. This is not the way of life. This is not the hard reality of life that every person must learn to accept. This is not the true surrender. A teacher always remains a crutch, a third party, a stranger outside our door. We can never pranam to that stranger and keep hold of our own integrity at the same time. To reach him, we must leave our true home, our own life.

The human guru takes on too much. Too much power over other people's lives. He makes mistakes, he is bound to make those mistakes, and his foolish followers will suffer the consequences. This has happened with Mr. Rawat, and his premies. But even more, the human guru is bound to fall, because he has arrived where he should not be. And this too will happen with Mr. Rawat.

It is a sad mistake that premies make, when they say 'Maharaji showed me...' Mr. Rawat has nothing to show. It is not by his grace that a human being attains peace within and peace without. It is by the inherent grace built in to this life, built there by God or by nature, whichever term you prefer. It is there within you. Rawat neither put it there nor revealed it.

Rawat does only two things: he teaches four meditation techniques, and then he takes the credit.

By only obection to you, Mike, is that you give him that credit. You say he knows something. I say he doesn't know enough, he doesn't know how to live this life honestly, something we all must do.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 08:15:25 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: That was an incrediable post nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:14:48 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: You're still a Shrew...
Message:
Why would anyone believe that he is the 'Lord of the Universe' in the first place? How could you and the others here even judge that? To me, he showed me something peaceful, loving and joyous within me. I

You fucking, fucking douchebag. How many times did YOU sing 'The lord of the universe has come to us this day?' Well maybe never. That was before your time. But the rest of us sure sang it enough. It was one of the cult staples.

As far as the peaceful, loving joy inside, you sure don't seem to demonstrate it here.

You're a liar and fraud just like your master. I'm glad Rob outed your silly ass...

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 11:26:18 (GMT)
From: salam
Email: None
To: Mike Fronke
Subject: I must say that I do have more respect
Message:
for anyone that posts under his real name. Not everyone post anonymously on this forum.

p.s. by the way, where is the funeral and what sort of flowers did shroom like?

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 08:18:26 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: salam
Subject: I say once a shroom always a shroom nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 17:25:16 (GMT)
From: Salam
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: You mean he is a Mike Shroomji?..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:49:02 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Promises, promises...yeah right , see you're still
Message:
here
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:29:00 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Shroomananda
Subject: Do you want me to give the FA my address and
Message:
Wait a minute, let me get some champagne....and a box of kleenex for you. My Pogues tapes are great to dance to! This could be wild.

Oh and my real name is Lee Harvey Oswald, aka Alex Hidell! Whooo-hooo!

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:01:53 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Oh that's FUNNY!!!!
Message:
Where do you find this stuff? Do you think Shroom is busy trying to find an exit therapist? That is, counseling for his untimely divorce from this forum. BTY thanks for defending me from that guy. He gave me the creeps.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 05:24:36 (GMT)
From: baby schroom
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: are you wasting your time here?
Message:
wasting my time ?
it's my time..now isn't it.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:02:37 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: baby schroom
Subject: are you wasting your time here?
Message:
Like brother, you are so in your mind. haven't you realised that time is just a CONCEPT? Can YOU really have time? Only the Lord Of The Entire Universe has time. HE has it on his top-of-the-line ROLEX WATCH!
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 05:54:55 (GMT)
From: Your ass is yours
Email: None
To: baby schroom
Subject: so why do not you sit on a hot pocker..nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 07:00:12 (GMT)
From: baby schroom
Email: None
To: Your ass is yours
Subject: so why do not you sit on a hot pocker..nt
Message:
what a hot pocker ?
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 05:38:43 (GMT)
From: Scott T.
Email: None
To: baby schroom
Subject: so why do not you sit on a hot pocker..nt
Message:
Baby:

I think he meaans a 'Hot Pocket,' which is a convenience food you heat in a microwave. They're pretty good, but not after they've been sat on.

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 20:36:44 (GMT)
From: TiM
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Fileing against Rawat
Message:
Why hasn't someone filed against Rawat as asked by someone below. Has anyone ever tried to file? How about a mass deposition from past premies and a deportation hearing. It's worth a try.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 04:52:55 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: TiM
Subject: Fileing against Rawat
Message:
Well he is married to an American citizen. I am not sure but I believe that he cannot be deported unless he is charged with a capital crime (outside the US) and then he is extradited.

And sueing him would most likely net zero as I am sure that they have it very neatly set up so he actually owns very very little, legally.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 18:49:28 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Fileing against Rawat
Message:
But he still benefits from the 'church' status that Elan Vital ('not a religion, not a cult', -and not a hope in hell) STILL has with the IRS.

Hey, most decent citizens pay tax. How come this master-con-artist, this King of Beggars, can get away with his scam?

Just WHO is going to write the IRS and tell them?

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 02:08:30 (GMT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: IRS
Message:
Make no assumptions about what others have or have not done.
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 18:46:59 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Know It All
Subject: MRANU
Message:
BTW, MRANU = 'Message Received And Not Understood'.

Assuming that ... oh-oh, start again.

It's not last night's full moon, KIA, honestly, ...

... it's just that, if I do as you recommend, and 'make no assumptions about what others have or have not done', then surely I'm still as much in the dark as I ever was.

That's why I asked 'has no-one contacted the IRS yet?'

Should it be me?

.
.

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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 20:27:18 (GMT)
From: TiM
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Rawat's heart attack and the Jagdeo scandal
Message:
Some years ago the then mayor of Chicago died in his office of what was reported of a massive heart attack. National tv showed the ambulance, the stretcher, and the body being carried away.

That mayor had done everything possible to shake up the white power structure of Chicago. Jesse Jackson at one time was shown on tv with the mayor - both laughing their heads off. Rawat came to believe that the mayor was causing too much trouble. And so Rawat used his highly developed yogic powers to force a major disruption of the mayor's heat and resultant death.

Rawat indeed has highly developed yogic powers. Most anyone can develop such powers. Such as PadrePio, SriChinmoi, KirPalSingh and his spinoff replacements, Klemp of Eckankar, a Tibrtan yogi I met, Paramhans Yogananda, and many many others.

Trouble is, its common for people with highly developed powers to believe that they are the one and only true avatar. Rawat certainly did claim to be the one and only. Likely, with his powers, he still believes he is the one and only. And tragedy is, those powers can be used both beneficialy and harmfuly at the whim of the yogi. Although, Rawat seemed to believe that any harmful use required the yogi to pay off the karma of the bad deed and pay off the karma of any bad deeds committed by a disciple. Which accounts for Rawat disinitiating any one not totaly devoted to his guidance after a number of years - guidance by agya, mental telepathy, astral body visit by Rawat, and who knows wat else.

So its a joke if anyone thinks that Rawat didn't know all about Jagdeo's behavior at the time it was happening. Likely, Rawat knows more about Jagdeo than anyone. But, Jagdeo remained faithful to Rawat despite all the problems Jagdeo had in the various communties. In our community he almost couldn't get up to give satsang. And so Rawat protected the faithful Jagdeo, just as Rawat also protected that 'mahatma' who slugged the 'pie thrower'
in the skull with a hammer.

So, is ther reason to denounce Rawat seeing he is a true believer in himself being the one and only avatar? Damn right there is.

1) he never told any of us how dangerous his knowledge proess is once you get to a certain point. Whether you know it or not, his knowledge process is horrifyingly dangerous. It might be that Rawat himself does not give up his guruship because of the danger of quitting at the point of development he is trapped at. Even though I quit after many years, I only escaped major harm to myself by the skin of my teeth. I had no idea what would happen or I might have been afraid to.

2) Rawat does become personally arrogant to anyone who turns away from his guidance: 'after I've done so much for you'. And if you've been really close to him he'll try to get even. And if you tell someone how crazy the mission was and how crazy the behavior of the people, his outright threat to you is no joke.

3) Since Rawat did kill the mayor of Chicago, and his almost having killed me, who knows what other things he has done.

[paragraph removed by Forum Administrator because of possibly implied physical threat to Maharaji]

Oh Wow! Would I ever like to see RawRat have a lethal heart attack from havin his U>S> holdings confiscated in a deportation trial.

BoldlyScream Sod GuWuDave My GarageKey Chains.

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 01:41:53 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: TiM
Subject: Slow down, TiM
Message:
I don't know if there's any getting through to you, TiM, but these ideas you have about Maharaji wasting the mayor of Chicago with his yogic powers, and nearly doing the same to you, exist only in YOUR head. Really, Maharaji doesn't even know you exist, and unless you're making contributions into his coffers, couldn't give a fuck if you were alive or dead.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 16:54:17 (GMT)
From: Joe
Email: None
To: TiM
Subject: These are insane rantings.
Message:
First, it was Harold Washington who was the mayor of Chicago who had a heart attack while in office. I can't imagine that Maharaji gave a shit who was the mayor of Chicago.

Second, Maharaji has no powers, although he does appear to have a talent to delude a small number of people due, I think, to his shear arrogance and total lack of self-awareness. That combination can get you pretty far. Just look at Ross Perot.

Funny thing about Chicago, though, I remember in the 80s and 70s Maharaji used to say he was AFRAID to go to Chicago and he said it was full of MIND. I thought that was weird as I lived there part of that time and rather liked the place.

Seems our slow-witted perfect master had seen one too many Al Capone and prohibition-style gangster movies and had in his head that Chicago was ruled by the mafiossos and the like, even into the latter part of the 20th century.

This is in line with how generally out of touch with reality Maharaji has usually been. Remember how much of his 'satsang' came right from prime time television and movies? I remember discourses he gave on such weighty subjects as 'Happy Days', 'The Empire Strikes Back,' and various television commercials. It really is embarrassing that we all weren't a little more discerning in evaluating Maharaji for the dolt he is. But hey, we were all young, idealistic and stupid.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 10:57:50 (GMT)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: None
To: TiM
Subject: Careful, please...
Message:
TiM, As a couple of ex-premies have pointed out, there is a section of your post which might be construed as a veiled threat against Maharaji. You might NOT have intended to make any threat, but you have to be very careful how things can be interpreted by others. In addition to obvious threats, which we will always delete, we don't want anything on the forum which might be mistaken for incitement to violence.

Assuming no threat was intended, please be more careful what you post on the forum.

Thanks,
Forum Admin

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 05:09:03 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Forum Administrator
Subject: I think you should edit it, perhaps? nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 23:35:31 (GMT)
From: Forum Admin
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Yes - probably a good idea.
Message:
kjhs
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 08:12:25 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: TiM
Subject: Rawat's heart attack and the Jagdeo scandal
Message:
Hi TiM,

Don't worry, Rawat doesn't have any special powers. He's a confused individual, who finds it hard to relate to people who aren't worshiping him. I blame the parents.

He's in a worse state than us- so don't be concerned.

Anth the unmagical

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 08:11:15 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: TiM
Subject: Unsubstantiated nonsense (Attn FA!)
Message:
Rawat came to believe that the mayor was causing too much trouble. And so Rawat used his highly developed yogic powers to force a major disruption of the mayor's heat and resultant death.

What evidence do you have that:

(a) yogic 'powers' exist?
(b) Prem Rawat has such powers?
(c) He used them to give the mayor a heart attack?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinarily good evidence. Absurd claims even more so...

Rawat indeed has highly developed yogic powers.

Who told you that? A mahatma?

Most anyone can develop such powers. Such as PadrePio, SriChinmoi, KirPalSingh and his spinoff replacements, Klemp of Eckankar, a Tibrtan yogi I met, Paramhans Yogananda, and many many others.

I assume you mean the ones who have not yet been exposed as conjurors?

Trouble is, its common for people with highly developed powers to believe that they are the one and only true avatar.

Claiming yourself to be an avatar is pretty much the same thing as claiming those powers. They go naturally together.

Rawat certainly did claim to be the one and only.

True.

Likely, with his powers, he still believes he is the one and only. And tragedy is, those powers can be used both beneficialy and harmfuly at the whim of the yogi. Although, Rawat seemed to believe that any harmful use required the yogi to pay off the karma of the bad deed and pay off the karma of any bad deeds committed by a disciple. Which accounts for Rawat disinitiating any one not totaly devoted to his guidance after a number of years - guidance by agya, mental telepathy, astral body visit by Rawat, and who knows wat else.

I think your imagination may be getting the better of you.

So, is ther reason to denounce Rawat seeing he is a true believer in himself being the one and only avatar? Damn right there is.

Yes, but denounciation should suffice. Public humiliation, whatever...

How can Rawat be got rid of? After thirty years, I have little remaining hope. Probably noone could get near enough to him to shoot him because of the clairvoiance he has.

This may not be an outright threat, Tim, but it is dangerously close to being one. You seem to be implying that if Prem had no powers, you would recommend violence against him..?

If so, I'm pretty safe in saying NOBODY else on the forum would agree here, nor wants to see physical threats made towards Maharaji or anyone associated with him.

And the forum administrator will probably have something to say here, too..

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:10:50 (GMT)
From: Tonette
Email: None
To: TiM
Subject: Rawat has no power
Message:
Rawat is just like you and I except he's filthy rich from selling his little trip. The only highly developed portion of him is his EGO. In fact I can't think of one thing that he is highly accompolished in! If you believe he has some sort of power nonsense then that is probably what you will see. You won't be looking to detect the deception. This is just variation on a theme of what he did to me only I believed that K was the truth for a long time.
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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 19:58:53 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Tonette
Subject: except as the world's most successful beggar!
Message:
Tonette, you say: 'In fact I can't think of one thing that he is highly accompolished in!'

Other than being the Maha - Raj - 'great king' - of beggars!

(Memo to self, must find out what the Hindi for 'beggar' is).

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 04:47:48 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: TiM
Subject: Rawat's heart attack and the Jagdeo scandal
Message:
Uh? Hmmm
Uh? I am not sure that I understand all that I know about that.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 15:42:01 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: ExTex
Subject: Oh no! He was only kidding, ExTex, honestly (??)
Message:
Now don't you be worrying yourself with any of Mr. TiM's whacky ideas. You've got enough to think about already (??????).

(What is it about people whose names read like cyber ransom notes? Is THIS a conspiracy?)

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Date: Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 06:03:12 (GMT)
From: ExTex
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Har Har Har, Jim. Good One (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 03:31:32 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: TiM
Subject: Hey, you sound sincere ... nuts and one more thing
Message:
TiM,

The first thing you should know is that physical threats aren't allowed here. Two rules: no physical threats and no lawyer jokes. Everything else is okay.

Beside that, I'm sorry, fella, but you've got yourself in deep. I've met and know of a few premies / ex-premies who think like you. If it's any consolation, I do hold Maharaji largely responsible for confusing you like this. Let's put it this way, even if he wasn't the one who pushed you into the deep end, he was the one who enticed you to that end of the pool.

Are you interested in logic, by chance? What do you use to scrutinize your various beliefs? What's your level of certainty about some of the more esoteric claims you assert? For example, are you sure that Rawat killed the mayor of Chicago? And even if he did, is that necessarily a bad thing? Maybe the next mayor was better anyway? (Just kidding!)

Are you kidding, by the way? If not, please tell me more about how you test your ideas for errors and blind spots. Right now, by the way, you sound nuts.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 03:16:15 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: TiM
Subject: Whoa!
Message:
TiM: It sounds as if you are serious. If so, you need to follow all the links on this site...take some time, find out who this Rawat really is. You are giving him too much credit and too much power over you.

It could be that some Masters have powers such as you've mentioned, although I doubt it. But one thing's for sure: Rawat isn't one of them.

According to most of his ex-intimates, Rawat was not a master of meditation. Most of his Masterhood has been spent in a state of arrested adolescent development...booze, toys, cars, planes, mansions...

Rawat's powers are more worldly than yours or mine, most likely. He is a master of money, property, and the ability to disregard ethical norms so as to psychologically manipulate thousands of followers in order to perpetuate his banal existence.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 14, 2000 at 05:55:19 (GMT)
From: DeProGram Anand Ji
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Whoa!
Message:
If Guru Maharaj Ji has any 'powers' it the power to persuade this ability is fairly common even amoungst sleezy used car salesman, politicians and other derilicts. We have all been taken in by these types. Your fantasies about Maharaj Ji's telepathically killing the mayor and you assasination fantasies are probably due to some un diagnosed psychiatric problem, perhap paraniod schizophrenia
with homcidal tendancies. In any case you sound like a very sick man and hope you seek help for you condition asap.
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Date: Wed, Sep 13, 2000 at 16:52:01 (GMT)
From: Carol
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/traumatic_abuse.ht
Message:
If you haven't already read this...or maybe if you have, look again!

I acknowledge that M's org is a cult, by the definitions found there.

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