Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Wed, Jun 21, 2000 at 09:23:22 (GMT)
From: Jun 11, 2000 To: Jun 19, 2000 Page: 2 Of: 5


Cynthia G. -:- Hi and Bye! -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 16:55:15 (GMT)
__ Cynthia G. -:- Hi and Bye! -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 15:52:58 (GMT)
__ __ Powerman -:- Hi and Bye! -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 16:13:47 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Hi -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 12:36:56 (GMT)
__ cq -:- Hi and Bye! -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 20:28:14 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- quite amazing -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 17:02:53 (GMT)
__ __ Cynthia -:- quite amazing -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 18:35:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Hi, Cynthia -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 02:42:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- gotta give credit to raina for this one -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 19:49:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Powerman -:- gotta give credit to raina for this one -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 02:59:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ Han -:- quite amazing Again! -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 19:07:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Keith -:- Abrasive both ways. -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 19:10:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Keith -:- quite amazing -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 19:02:46 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- I think it was that 'true premie' Han -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 17:33:41 (GMT)
__ __ Powerman -:- looney tunes from Cynthia -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 17:33:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- yeah and she goes at me for talking and joking -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 19:54:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Powerman -:- yeah and she goes at me for talking and joking -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 03:05:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Keith -:- Angry premies. -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 19:07:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Angry premies. -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 03:15:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ Han -:- looney tunes from Cynthia -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 17:50:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Rob -:- When you've finished gloating Han -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 22:35:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Han -:- 'wake up and smell the coffee,sunshine'??? -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 00:49:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- To Han -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 14:53:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Yes, very poetic Han, however... -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 03:30:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- To Rob -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 15:49:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- To Way -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 19:24:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Thanks, Rob (nt) -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 19:56:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Keith -:- Love and truth? -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 18:46:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Han -:- Yes, very poetic Han, however... -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 15:10:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Hi Han, how are you today? -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 20:07:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Han -:- Hi Han, how are you today? Yawn,,,,,,,,, -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 21:22:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Can I become ' Concious,' too, Han? -:- Sun, Jun 18, 2000 at 02:49:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- So that's it? You're backing out? -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 23:14:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- So that's it? You're backing out? -:- Sun, Jun 18, 2000 at 16:44:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Han -:- Pusillanimously??? -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 00:55:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- 'Lacking courage, timid' -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 01:29:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Monkey see, monkey do -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 17:20:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- To Han -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 16:16:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Han -:- To Way,,,out there -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 19:54:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gErRy -:- To Way,,,out there -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 20:09:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- gErRy you're turning me on! -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 21:29:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gErRy -:- MRC: my take -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 21:53:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Re:To Way,,,out there -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 20:04:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Powerman -:- looney tunes from Cynthia -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 18:16:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cq -:- Fine therapist you'd be, premie-'ji' (nt) -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 18:02:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- I forgot the sarcasm emoticon -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 19:56:38 (GMT)

Keith -:- Response to O. -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 10:08:55 (GMT)
__ O -:- Response to O. -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 19:54:03 (GMT)
__ __ Lotus Eater -:- Response to O. -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 22:00:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Keith -:- Response to O and Lotus Eater. -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 23:27:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ O -:- More rambling thoughts -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 23:13:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Keith -:- More rambling thoughts -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 00:33:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ O -:- More rambling thoughts -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 01:23:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Keith -:- More rambling thoughts -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 03:03:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- K and O -:- Sun, Jun 18, 2000 at 15:20:17 (GMT)

sam -:- where? -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 05:26:57 (GMT)
__ sam -:- where? -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 05:28:17 (GMT)

Peter Howie -:- Truth and nothing but the truth -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 05:08:47 (GMT)
__ Stonor -:- Truth and nothing but the truth -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 12:55:35 (GMT)
__ __ Peter Howie -:- Truth and nothing but the truth -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 02:40:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ Stonor -:- Truth and nothing but the truth -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 03:04:16 (GMT)

Deputy Dog -:- Reality at last! -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 22:09:22 (GMT)
__ Rob -:- Reality at last! -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 16:01:17 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Time to wake up Dog. -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 15:31:29 (GMT)
__ Grim Reaper -:- Reality at last!--or is it Unreality First? -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 06:42:14 (GMT)
__ __ Deputy Dog -:- Reality at last!--or is it Unreality First? -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 14:46:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ Rob -:- That's quite a crowd in your head there Dog -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 16:09:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Rob, let me explain again -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 17:18:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Well I guess I'm just a thicko then DD -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 01:15:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Rob, you are lucky I'm here to explain this to you -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 03:56:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- You are barking up the wrong tree dog, -:- Sun, Jun 18, 2000 at 08:09:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Hey I'm impressed! -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 04:31:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Well I'm not -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 04:59:49 (GMT)
__ (Sir) David -:- Wake up!!! It's NOT a dream. -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 04:30:12 (GMT)
__ (Sir) David -:- Reality at last! -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 04:21:35 (GMT)
__ __ Deputy Dog -:- (Sir) David, please lighten the fuck up! (nt) -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 13:43:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- The yokes on you, Pup -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 15:10:25 (GMT)
__ BreathManiac -:- Reality at last! -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 02:39:23 (GMT)

Cynthia G. -:- Why I didn't go to Boston -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 19:04:47 (GMT)
__ Powerman -:- The Cynthia? -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 01:57:17 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- ssshhh let sleeping dogs lie but then again -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 02:23:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ Powerman -:- ssshhh let sleeping dogs lie but then again -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 04:36:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- you know I have been noticing that lately :) -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 05:18:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- I'm remembering something you posted recently -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 04:55:12 (GMT)
__ Han -:- Why I didn't go to Boston -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 20:35:32 (GMT)
__ __ Elaine -:- Han, did you ever apologize to Cynthia? -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 20:01:14 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- your Hate -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 23:55:17 (GMT)
__ __ Elaine -:- Why I didn't go to Boston -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 03:43:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Han -:- Why I didn't go to Boston -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 16:19:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Why I didn't go to Boston -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 19:53:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Han -:- Thanks Elaine,, -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 22:34:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Why do you do that? -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 20:12:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Why do you do that? -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 00:40:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Why do you do that? -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 02:06:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- You prob won't read this then... -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 15:03:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- I have read it...and -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 18:26:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- I have read it...and -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 19:04:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- I have read it...and -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 19:32:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- I have read it...and -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 20:55:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Okey-Doke... -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 21:10:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Till next time then,alrighty....nt -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 22:18:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Raina said THAT??? -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 19:44:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- It's beginning to look like that... -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 19:51:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Han -:- Why do you think? -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 22:53:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- This is what I think... -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 02:01:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Why do you think? -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 00:48:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Han -:- My apologies,,, -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 01:16:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Elaine -:- It's cool,talk with you later :) NT -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 01:44:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- What a limp, bogus jargon, you premies have! -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 15:50:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Lawyers have an even more bogus jargon IMO (nt) -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 22:20:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- And how about the unemployed, Dog? (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 00:15:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ Harry -:- Hi Elaine!!!! -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 09:37:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Elaine -:- Harrysan!!! -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 19:46:29 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Get the whole picture, Han -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 23:21:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ Han -:- Get the whole picture, Han -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 23:47:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ the breath -:- the breath -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 23:28:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Rob -:- Han - a serious, non-flaming question -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 03:18:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ premie lurker -:- Rob - a serious, non-flaming answer -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 04:18:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- and another -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 04:42:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- PS - is Han short for Hansi? nt -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 03:19:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Ever see -:- 'Enter the dragon' with Bruce Lee,,, -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 07:00:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- He signs himself 'Hanuman' in another post (nt) -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 11:10:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- So is Han Bihari Singh? -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 14:09:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Superstitious hogwash (not to mention illogical) -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 01:51:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ BreathManiac -:- The Whole Picture, Han: -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 00:13:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Or is mind a nasty word? -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 01:03:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ BreathManiac -:- Where have you been, DD? -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 02:35:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Where have you been, DD? -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 03:03:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Well, well, look who crawled back in?! -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 01:54:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Hey Jim, will you stop bothering people! -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 03:06:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Hey Jim, will you stop bothering people! -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 03:34:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Rob - morality is subjective, the law isn't -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 14:02:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You've never looked worse, Dog. -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 16:28:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Ducking and diving, now I know why Jim gets irate -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 15:18:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Rob, I'll explain myself AGAIN, just for you! -:- Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 03:16:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Mind Control--easy !!! -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 15:08:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- THAT's no answer! -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 03:23:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- THAT's an answer! -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 13:39:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- To a casual observer... -:- Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 18:00:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- If only it WERE the 'end of story' -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 15:40:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Get the whole picture, Han -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 00:13:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Lotus eater -:- Get the whole picture, Han -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 00:13:02 (GMT)
__ __ Deputy Dog -:- Excellent Han! Why didn't I say that?(nt) -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 22:07:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ Because you forgotten -:- how to think for yourself -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 07:02:47 (GMT)
__ __ gerry -:- Your peace is showing... -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 20:53:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Han -:- Your peace is showing... -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 21:34:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Your cod piece is showing... -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 21:41:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Han -:- Your cod piece is showing... -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 22:53:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Rob -:- Before you go... -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 06:17:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- To Rob re:Before you go... -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 14:37:14 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- Another vicious premie -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 20:52:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ O -:- No just another fed up premie -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 00:35:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Another judgmental premie -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 00:42:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ O -:- No just an observation -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 20:01:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ Way -:- I remember -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 21:57:24 (GMT)

TwoInchRoach -:- Innocents Getting Sucked Into Cults -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 18:25:28 (GMT)
__ 8' Dick -:- You seem to like the word sucking ! nt -:- Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 23:02:36 (GMT)

Daneane -:- Here's one for cq(OT) -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 17:15:12 (GMT)

TwoInchRoach -:- the enemy -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 16:36:59 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Who would be your enemy if you only have 1 gram of -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 16:53:13 (GMT)
__ __ TwoInchRoach -:- If I Only Had Two Grams of a Brain -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 17:38:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ Daneane -:- Just don't start singing(nt) -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 17:47:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ TwoInchRoach -:- Just don't start singing(nt) -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 17:52:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Daneane -:- That's my life.(nt) -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 18:08:54 (GMT)
__ __ TwoInchRoach -:- Your Gramma -:- Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 17:01:33 (GMT)


Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 16:55:15 (GMT)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Hi and Bye!
Message:
Hello again,

I'd like to thank everyone for responding to my post.

Hate is a strong feeling which I reserve for only the truly deserving: Maharaji. The rest of my life is wonderful. To come here for support was a mistake. I don't have the stomach for this place. As I remember, Powerman, we argued incessantly and for me, it turned out to be a pointless endeavor. Selene, don't worry about your sanity, but comparing you to me is, well, kind of pathetic and weak. You don't need to compare yourself to anyone, just learn to accept yourself as you are, love YOURSELF and let go of the your concept of being 'crazy.'

I had a very strong, devotional bond to m and lots of 'divine' experiences back in the 70s. Spent a lot of time around him too. Yes, I hate m, but I love life--m is about taking lives away from folks. I hadn't even thought about m until that stupid premie called me about the Boston program, and I just would like to keep it that way.

However, to tell ANYONE to kill themselves is deeply disturbing to me because while I have never been suicidal in my life I know premies who killed themselves because of m and his betrayals. To suggest to someone to try suicide is irresponsible and especially mean and dangerous. I could respond with meaness, but this is too serious an issue. Never tell anyone in cyberspace or in reality that if they are having a certain feeling about something that the solution is suicide. They might just take your suggestion and where would YOU BE THEN??

So, bye-bye. I'm not going to subject myself to further ridicule when I have always told you all I am the most healthy person here. The difference between me and many people here is that I'm not afraid to give my real name (and my email address at the time I was posting frequently) and I really don't give a rat's ass what anyone here or elsewhere thinks about me. It's just that simple.

That, friends, is called self-actualization, and I didn't obtain that through k and m. Am I crazy? Yes, I am crazy for the love in my life, the nature around me, and most of all, I have learned to love myself. Strange concept? It's true. But, I do hate Maharaji. That's allowed in the human experience--especially under the circumstances--he's a cult!!

Sorry if I disrupted your chain of arguments, folks. I didn't expect to be welcomed back with open keyboards, but I never expected to be told to kill myself. Wow. And I always thought I had a lot to contribute here. Sorry, your loss.

Thanks, Marianne, for your support. I hope you're well. I am.

To the premies to post here or lurk here, YOU ARE IN A CULT!!!

Best to all,
Cynthia G.

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 15:52:58 (GMT)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Hi and Bye!
Message:
Hi Again,

I've been thinking a lot about this forum since yesterday. I have come to realize that I am drawn here because I have the expectation that I will receive support about exiting m's cult. I try to impress people with a sense of humor that one really has to know me to understand. I become triggered by being called names, or having others talk about me in the third person, saying stuff that makes no sense to me. Powerman, you were right, however, when you said Cynthia has a deep dark secret. You phrased it incorrectly though--it's not all that deep and isn't dark at all.

What happens is this: I get really angry and part of me likes that. But then I become embroiled in arguments and start to behave inappropriately, i.e., I get sarcastic and my morals go out the window. I think it's this cyber-medium,of course my personal history,too but I don't experience this anywhere else. If I come here and continue to let my personal morality erode because I am safely tucked behind a keyboard then I am betraying myself, not to mention mistreating others. I know I triggered people by saying that I hate m, but am really surprised about that. Perhaps my feeling of hate toward m is in actuality rage.

I'm not going to say I won't be back. I've learned never to say never. I just have to ponder why I can get sucked into being so argumentative and angry when I'm here, and worst of all, why I start to digress into someone I don't like at all. That's not healthy for me. Plus, I don't like to be picked on for speaking my mind.

Be well, everyone. Thanks to those of you who were kind to me.
Best wishes,
Cynthia J.

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 16:13:47 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Hi and Bye!
Message:
That's an impressive revelation, Cynthia. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with sarcasm or even hating maharaji or feeling rage towards him (or anyone else). But I think you're right in suggesting that the real test of one's morality is in our behavior when no one's looking.

Being morally perfect is a total luxury. But I think the strength that's worth trying for, is in continually trying to do the most 'right' thing in the face of being treated in ways we perceive as abusive.

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 12:36:56 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Hi
Message:
Hi Cynthia,

I remember having quite a pleasant conversation with you a while ago (I think).

Who told you to kill yourself? That kind of garbage usually gets kicked off the forum. I wouldn't worry about it too much. There's no shortage of idiots in the world.

Take care

Anth Ginn (real name)

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 20:28:14 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Hi and Bye!
Message:
Cynthia,

Just in case you really DO feel you have to go, I'd like to say thanks for the support you gave when I first started posting here.

And here's little something to take with you:

http://home.pacific.net.au/~bchudso/jmgame.htm

Enjoy!

:)

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 17:02:53 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: quite amazing
Message:
That you got the msg. I was telling you to kill yourself
from my post. if that is what you are implying here.
That is not what I said. and I would not tell anyone that.
I'm sure I have never said that to anyone here. Have I
Anyone?
Or you may be referening some other post. You aren't being clear.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 18:35:23 (GMT)
From: Cynthia
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: quite amazing
Message:
Selene,
It's quite amazing you are so obsessed with mental health. Who told you that you're insane or crazy? I certainly didn't imply that you suggested I kill myself and I stand by what I said: It is very dangerous for anyone to say that in any situation. I agree with whoever said it in this thread, that Hans the premie posted that to me in hatred. Why? Because I am an ex-premie and I hate his lord.

You're mad at me because I am healthy. You seem to need someone like me around, who has admitted to years of therapy, which has been quite successful, to compare yourself to. What's the point?

Whoever ingrained the message into your head that you are crazy or insane did a good job. I feel bad for you because of that. Now your job is to get that thought process out of your head. But that takes hard work. And that's also what exiting a cult is about: deprogramming ourselves. So you can piss and moan and be sarcastic about my mental health while you spend your time HERE, subjecting yourself to ridicule, and even, if might suggest, looking for pity. Grow up. I give you this much: I don't like you one bit--that's okay though because I don't think it's possible to like everyone on this planet. I have no idea who you are, so I won't give you anymore advice. I'll only be back here to respond to my thread.

If you all remember, back in January, I went off on a rampage because I strongly disapproved of the on-line sex connected to the website in the form of 'Anything Goes.' I still believe it has no place and makes all of you look like a bunch of idiots. Truly. This forum also denegrates the whole purpose of what I thought the ex-premie website was created to fulfill. Informing the public about a cult.

So, simmer down, take a deep breath and stop being so goddammed paranoid!

Cynthia G.

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 02:42:31 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: Hi, Cynthia
Message:
You know, when you went off on Dave that time I have to admit I cringed a bit. Why? Because I thought you were really quite cool before then and really enjoyed your posts. Your unique psych history was just part of the colour. But, yes, I, too, thought you were a little, oh shall we say strident in your protest? But whatever. That was then. Personally, I value your input and hope you stick around.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 19:49:34 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: gotta give credit to raina for this one
Message:
unsolicited advice is a sign of hostility

(thanks raina for giving me that line to use)

take it to someone who gives a shit Cynthia)

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 02:59:28 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: gotta give credit to raina for this one
Message:
Right on, Selene. How did Cynthia get all those Maraschino cherries in her puke?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 19:07:21 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: quite amazing Again!
Message:
Cynthia,,
What's more amazing is your back!! after saying
Hi and Bye, That's ok,, Everyone needs a little support...
I wish you well,, This site can be abrasive,,both ways. Please accept my apologies.
Keep a smile on your face~
take care,
Han
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 19:10:02 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Abrasive both ways.
Message:
Abrasive both ways. Absolutely!
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 19:02:46 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: quite amazing
Message:
Hate begets hate. You openly admit to hating Maharaji. Then do not be so surprised if some strong negative emotion bounces back on you.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 17:33:41 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: I think it was that 'true premie' Han
Message:
I think it was that 'true premie' Han, who said:

'Well Cynthia,, Perhaps you should seek out a good therapist,, or better yet just end it all,, so there might be one less 'hateful' person in the world.'

Interesting how Han doesn't think of him/her self as being hateful in saying this.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 17:33:38 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: looney tunes from Cynthia
Message:
The poster Cynthia was referring to is 'Han' who told Cynthia, in a fit of anger, to off herself. I interpreted Han's post as just a premie who was ranting and I actually found it refreshing, because instead of the usual tripe that premies regurgitate, this person was throwing pots and pans. It's sort of an admission that the 'knowledge' isn't working.

To take seriously a suicide suggestion from a stranger you've never talked to before and who's at the opposite end of idealogical poles, is silly, especially when it's obvious what great mental health Cynthia is in.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 19:54:54 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: yeah and she goes at me for talking and joking
Message:
about being nuts and stuff - lightly and in my writing therapeutically. what a dork she is. thank you Powerman. You show me once again how freinds come through.
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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 03:05:16 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: yeah and she goes at me for talking and joking
Message:
When you're right, you're right, Selene. Personally, I suspect Cynthia has demons she's not telling us about.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 19:07:52 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Angry premies.
Message:
Premies who get angry and agitated are not examples that equal to knowledge not working. Remember many ex's still practice knowledge or some other meditation. Bad logic Powerman. But I empathise with the sentiment that it's good when premies express more freely as ex's do without a problem.
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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 03:15:36 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: Angry premies.
Message:
Well, Keith, I'd agree that premies getting agitated and angry aren't the only examples of knowledge not working; for sure, there are others.

When premies get angry and agitated they're not practicing knowledge because the anger and agitation come from 'mind'. It's evidence that knowledge doesn't work because you can't shut down your emotions without damaging yourself. The whole premise of knowledge is to remove yourself from emotions and the result is supposed to be beneficial but it isn't. That's because knowledge doesn't 'work'. It just doesn't 'work'.

I think there might be a difference between ex-premies and former premies. Former premies may still choose to 'surrender' but an ex never will. Just my opinion.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 17:50:12 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: looney tunes from Cynthia
Message:
I never doubted her 'Mental health',,, (smile)
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 22:35:22 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: When you've finished gloating Han
Message:
Maybe you'd spare a moment to read/answer the questions I posed to you in my posts below. No hurry, any time before your next glib remark will do.
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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 00:49:40 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: 'wake up and smell the coffee,sunshine'???
Message:
Rob,
Your kidding right?? Let me get this straight, you stop
practicing the deepest, most profound, most subtle, most beautiful, life enhancing, internal experience,, within your own being, and now you want me to wake up to your advice,,,whew.

Your an educated man,,you must know, by now, there is no debating truth.
It is simply within you,,,,,

I understand your position on the messenger,,, The path of
Devotion is narrow and steep,,few will ever attempt, and fewer
will succeed,NO MATTER WHAT they choose to devote their lives to.
That is the nature of our human race. It is not for everyone.

You are a man of Science, perhaps a doctor,,many of my closest
friends are Physicians,,their knowledge is invaluable and they are also on a path ,,,you may know this path as well.
Keep an open mind, no matter where this life takes you,, and
persevere in the pursuit of truth Rob, I guarantee, you will end up at the doorstep of your own Heart,again.
Fortunately, this is also human nature.

This is not the answer you were looking for, I'm sure, but it is the only one worth printing Rob, take care.
Sincerely,
Hanuman

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 14:53:10 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: To Han
Message:
Han,

If you're going to stick around for awhile, would you please quit using so many commas? It irritates me. Thanks so much.

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 03:30:37 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Yes, very poetic Han, however...
Message:
I was hoping for a little more than refried spiritual cliches. Something more along the lines of a down-to-earth reply to what were actually very unambiguous questions.

Allow me to help you along here. One could almost taste the gusto with which you opened your paragraph - the deepest, most profound, most subtle, most beautiful, life enhancing, internal experience, within your own being. Didn't that feel good, writing that? Touching, inspired, romantic even.

The problem is Han, that you weren't describing your own experience of practicing Knowledge now, were you. Come on, it's OK, you're among people who understand here. That's the pitch, the spiritual ideal if you will, which we both had drilled into us endlessly for 20+ years. I suggested in the thread below that your actual experience may be a little lower on the richter scale. Fidget, think, daydream, smugness...remember that?

So, straightforward question number 1: What is your actual, regular experience under the blanket?

Moving right along here. We'll skip the flattery and the platitude and take a look at:

I understand your position on the messenger,,, The path of
Devotion is narrow and steep,,few will ever attempt, and fewer
will succeed,NO MATTER WHAT they choose to devote their lives to.
That is the nature of our human race. It is not for everyone.

Messenger...(bit of a step down from Perfect Master, Lord of the Universe eh? Now he's just the bell-hop.) So essentially what we have here is the old challenge: do YOU have what it takes etc etc. But again, these are not your words are they? I mean, are you sitting at the end of the 'path of devotion' ticking off the finalists against a list of contenders? Where do you get 'narrow and steep' from? Is it like the Khyber Pass?

Can you see that your whole argument, and possibly your whole life, is a mish-mosh of someone else's florid one-liners?

Straightforward question number 2. Do you believe Prem Pal Singh Rawat, aka Guru Maharaji, aka Maharaji, is a Divine Being, The One Come Again, Son of God, Satguru, whatever..I think you get the gist? If so, why, and have you ever paused to question your reasoning?

There are many more I'd like to ask, but let's see how you get on with those first. I've a funny feeling you're going to dance around them, but that's OK. Believe me, I know precisely how strange you must be feeling right now - a heady mix of condescension, anger, frustration and confusion. Condescension because you feel part of an elite spiritual group. Anger because we are critisizing your Lord and Master. Frustration because you do not have the personal experience to back up what you preach. Confusion because somewhere buried inside you is the horrifying possibility that you could well have spent the last 25 years barking up the wrong tree.

So take a look in there Han. If it's real, why wouldn't it stand up to a bit of prodding, eh?

Take care,

Rob

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 15:49:29 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: To Rob
Message:
Rob,

I am following your exchange here with interest and admiration. Your two questions are precisely the ones that should be asked, but as you are aware, they are precisely the ones that premies are proned to 'dance around,' as you put it.

I believe you match Han in glibness, which is quite entertaining, but you greatly surpass him in substance, which is far more important. So far he disappoints in exactly the typical ways that premies disappoint here. Do they really think we haven't heard these praises before? Do they really think we have forgotten what love feels like or abandoned our appreciation of truth? Can they ever do anything beyond insult our intelligence and our heart?

It would be fascinating if our latest Maharaji apologist would dare to accept your challenge in the honest, straightforward fashion that you request, but that's an unfamiliar style for premies. And he has already put forth the common sidestep that this topic is too deep and words are therefore inadequate, so it doesn't look promising.

Rob, I do have a question for you. You seemed to have made a substantial transformation. In fact, it is hard to formulate a handle, so to speak, on who you are. The various voices you created in the past are of course the major part of the confusion. But since your current voice is a clear and rational one, what do you think about composing a journey entry or at least some sort of an explanation to those of us who have been aware of the long history of Rob?

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 19:24:55 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: To Way
Message:
I have considered doing just that, although I'm not sure where to park it, so to speak. A couple of snippets of personal experiences I have shared so far got somewhat jumped on, so maybe it's too soon. I may put something on my own message board and link to it, perhaps that would be better.

This probably is my first lengthy exchange with a current premie since I bailed out of the cult, and I am surprised at how wriggley they can be. Was I really that bad myself? Yes, and Jim can attest to that I'm sure. But in a way that puts me in a good space to talk with Han, because I do empathise with his frustration at being confronted like this. It's not easy to face the truth about something which has been at the core of your life for a quarter century, virtually unchallenged, and watch it being dismantled before your eyes.

I hope Han has the strength to continue with this, so he doesn't waste another 25 years pursuing an illusion.

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 19:56:03 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Thanks, Rob (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 18:46:06 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Love and truth?
Message:
You asked,'Do they really think we have forgotten what love
feels like or abandoned our appreciation of truth?'
Perhaps not you Way. But my feeling here is that many ex's have forgotten. In the sense that they have concluded that truth and love are bio-chemical or nervous tics. And the word 'they' suggests that there are two camps. Them and us. I strongly disagree with that. 'If' that's what you mean. We are all individuals. Not everyone is a groupie.
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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 15:10:08 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Yes, very poetic Han, however...
Message:
Rob,
You really do want to know my experience, don't you?
Just a little inkling that someone might actually be experiencing something beautiful, inside, is enough to go after,
isn't it? I can tell something about you. You ARE still
practicing,,,, In fact your sucking air like a man with a rope around his neck. That's good, whatever works, You want to know
my experience,,,,? I am enjoying the most amazing life.
There is a constant unwavering experience within that is the
the ultimate for me. It's that simple Rob.

Take it to a higher level.. man, Your an inspired human.
In this physical world,everything,everything,EVERYTHING,get it? is in constant change.... answer#2
ONE thing isn't.....The Key is within. Go there.
Be well.
Hanuman

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 20:07:44 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Hi Han, how are you today?
Message:
How was this morning's meditation?

OK I'm jumping the gun there, perhaps in your time zone the coffee is still percolating and you haven't had chance yet to connect with that constant unwavering experience.

I'm touched by your concern for my well-being, but I am perfectly fine, thank you.

'Way' has already broached the subject ahead of me, so you won't be surprised by what I am about to say now. As I fully expected you would, you were unable to answer either of my questions. I say 'unable' as opposed to 'unwilling' because I believe I am one step ahead of you there. Only a year ago I was like yourself, being challenged here to face the most basic, straightforward questions about my experience of Knowledge and my perception of Maharaji, and guess what? I dallied and evaded in exactly the same fashion!

I'm now at the point where I can comfortably look back and understand my, and your, inability to answer those questions. Fear, Han, simple fear. But I'm jumping ahead again.

Let's take a look, together, at the way you answered my two simple questions.

Question number 1: 'What is your actual, regular experience under the blanket. (I should add that I am aware premies don't use blankets any more, I was meaning 'formal' practice of the techniques)'

Your answer, scattered amongst the flak, seems to have been I am enjoying the most amazing life. There is a constant unwavering experience within that is the ultimate for me.

Well OK, the first part is a general comment about your life, and I'm very pleased for you if that is true. The second part was merely an unsupported statement, sounding suspiciously like one of those third-party one-liners we discussed yesterday.

The second question: 'Do you think Mr Rawat (let's skip the aliases) is a Divine Being etc etc.' produced an even more obscure answer thus: In this physical world,everything,everything,EVERYTHING,get it? is in constant change.... answer#2 ONE thing isn't.....The Key is within

Han that doesn't bear any resemblance to the question now does it?

Now I have 3 questions, the 2 original ones and a new one. Here we go:

1: What is your regular experience, when you sit in formal Knowledge practice on a daily basis?

2: Do you think Maharaji is a Divine Being, reincarnated or otherwise?

3: Why do you think you are unable to answer these 2 questions?

Have a nice day.

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 21:22:53 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Hi Han, how are you today? Yawn,,,,,,,,,
Message:
Rob,,
You guys are seriously funny,,,,,,, but can't you
at least TRY to be inspiring,,, Doesn't anyone on this site have anything better to offer,,,, If you really don't practice,,
( i believe you do) Then you would think
that you or someone would have come up with something better.

I didn't think so.

But Rob, let me get this right,,, You let THESE guys talk you out of your experience??????????? These people? I'm sorry~~
I had to howl,,,
I have you pegged for a real Scientific Yogi..

All joking aside,, we're talking about life here.
My experience is there, alive and well. Talking to you guys is
is hardly challenging something which 'IS' me,,,You never made that connection did you. I can't walk away from Myself. We all do on a daily basis,,,but you have to connect.... Become Concious.
You take care,,,
ps. lose the deprogramming crap,,It's so 70's,,,,,,

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Date: Sun, Jun 18, 2000 at 02:49:54 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Can I become ' Concious,' too, Han?
Message:
And would that be pronounced 'kon-key-us' ???

You fucking moron...

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 23:14:49 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: So that's it? You're backing out?
Message:
I'm truly amazed and a little disappointed Han.

Given you are a spiritually superior being and all, you couldn't indulge a lesser mortal enough to answer two simple questions? How sad.

Why have three responses gone by and in every one you blatantly and pusillanimously avoid answering my questions? Why did you even BOTHER to reply?

Is it because you don't actually practice the techniques? Is that why you can't describe what you experience. Or is it because no matter how long you sit there and fidget, nothing grander than a slightly euphoric release of seratonin into your bloodstream has occured in the past 25 years?

I mean, what else am I to think? Is it a secret? Are you under oath, like 'new' premies are during the initiation process, not to speak about your experiences?

Leave that aside then for a moment.

What of Maharaji? Why do you have a problem even sharing your beliefs about him? Are you ashamed? Are you afraid that if you say he isn't Divine, a bolt of lightening will strike you down? If that were the case Han, this would be a very sparsely populated place!

The reason I am doggedly trying to get direct answers out of you, is because everything else you have said hallmarks you as a Grade A, Certified Member of Maharaji's Cult.

1. You feel spiritually superior

2. You evade any direct questions pertaining to your experience and to your beliefs about Maharaji.

3. You don't actually HAVE any experiences beyond those which any casual practice of yoga or meditation would yield.

4. Your initial entry onto the forum was significantly hostile.

5. You subsequently backed off enough to show a nicer side of yourself when you realized your behavior reflected badly on Maharaji.

6. The major part of your arguments consist of quasi-spiritual one-liners taken from Maharaji (perhaps the worlds biggest plagiarist).

7. You can be haughty, cynical or abusive, but never honest and direct.

8. You have or will post under several different names until each character finally gets cornered and has to start answering questions.

9. You will totally change the subject in response to this.

10. You try to dismiss us by saying it's our own fault for not trying hard enough as premies.

See Han I'm not asking you to stop practising the Knowledge - Talking to you guys is hardly challenging something which 'IS' me....... I can't walk away from Myself - I wouldn't dream of interferring with your life in that way. All I have done is ask you to answer a couple of no-brainer questions concerning your experience and your viewpoint. Your responses are classic, as it happens, but I would be very impressed if you were to break out of the mould and take a swipe at some real discussion here centered around these two points.


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Date: Sun, Jun 18, 2000 at 16:44:36 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: So that's it? You're backing out?
Message:
Good one,Rob - well thought out.Love the ten points.
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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 00:55:06 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Pusillanimously???
Message:
Rob,,
You got me on that one,,,,
Look, I wish you the best,,
You've got what it takes to do well here..
Let me say, many of the things you post are untrue.

I hope you'll be inspired to make that connection inside
again someday. All the answers are there,, inside. You don't need
to hear them from me. I pray many times a day to be reminded to
go inside and never leave that place, that connection, my true
self. And when the day comes and this body is no longer needed, I will be breathing in that experience that I feel now, and I will smile and remember you,, for you have inspired me,,,
more than you can imagine.
Thank you Rob,for letting me speak freely.
Peace,
Han

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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 01:29:48 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: 'Lacking courage, timid'
Message:
Well fancy that, you're leaving without answering my 2 simple questions. What a surprise!

Well have a nice life in the cult, Han, and I guess we'll see you in your next incarnation.

Bye.

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 17:20:48 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Monkey see, monkey do
Message:
Han

So you call yourself after Hanuman do you? Blimey ... are the Maha's delusions of grandeur rubbing off on the premies now?

You say:

In this physical world,everything,everything,EVERYTHING,get it? is in constant change....'

Physical world you say. As opposed to ... what?

You think 'spirituality' precludes physicality?

I wouldn't be surprised if the words 'eternal, unchanging' are to be found in the Gita, or Upanishads somewhere. Certainly in the Buddhist literature. Maybe even in the Tao Te Ching. Wouldn't sound too out of place in the bible even.

But in those scriptures, you know what they're referring to when they speak of the 'unchanging'? That's right - God.

So, when you centre yourself, breathe the breath, and vibe the vibe, is it 'God' you're connecting with?
Does M mean to suggest this?

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 16:16:58 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: To Han
Message:
Han,

Please forgive me, Han and Rob, for butting in. I don't wish to interrupt and complicate the exchange too much. However, I do want to express my disappointment, Han, that you have both ignored by request about the commas,,,and you have danced around Rob's questions in exactly the manner expected.

Don't you realize we only want you to acknowledge that you are not in divine bliss 24/7? That the 'constant, unwavering experience' that you talk about is a spiritual ideal praised in all traditions, but that you yourself are not constant and unwavering in your connection to it. In other words, just a little honest communication between us, as human beings in a common boat? Eh? That's question one, and question two is similar, I believe all Rob is attempting to get out of you is some sort of acknowledgement about Mr. Rawat's failure to live up to the God Incarnate status. All you say is that everything Everything changes. That's true, but that wasn't the question.

Please try to avoid the ugly insults, such as the man with the rope around his neck. And please do not take it to 'a higher level' - keep it on the level where words work, honestly!

And please, whatever you do, do not say: 'The key is within. Go there.' That is highly presumptuous on your part - allow us to have our own inner experience without your reminder.

Yes, life is amazing, and be well.

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 19:54:51 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: To Way,,,out there
Message:
For not wanting to interrupt my conversation with Rob,,I'd
say you you did a pretty good job of interjecting your shallow
bit of sub-intellectual Cro-Magnon curiosity on an experience
you regard as 'a spiritual ideal'.
No one is in 'divine bliss' as you call it,, 24/7 you moron.
Obviously, taking it to a higher level is not for you.
Let Rob speak for himself.
Thank you.
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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 20:09:10 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: To Way,,,out there
Message:
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Hey Dude, Way is one of the gentler, more thoughtful and slow to anger people around here. Keep up your abuse and I'm gonna get out my big whippin' stick, and trust me you ain't gonna like it.

Gerrry the true Cro-magnum

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 21:29:00 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: gErRy
Subject: gErRy you're turning me on!
Message:
stop that
what the hell is up with this place lately? People spamming Jim.
Me getting accused of starting fights that have so very obviously
been very started very well on their own.
And all these people wanting a merciful resolution with M.

that one in particular! what is your take on MRC gErRy?

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 21:53:53 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: MRC: my take
Message:
This is undoubtably a covert government operation bent on destroying anyone who resists or attempts to obfuscate the mind control technique so assiduously co-developed by the rawrat gang and the NSA. Fronted by Messrs Heller and one Raj Singh Rawat and funded by the Rockefellers et al, they are clearly not to be trusted.
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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 20:04:11 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Re:To Way,,,out there
Message:
Han Dear,

Was it something I said?

More insults, more evasions, and more blasted commas! I shall defer back to Rob.

Thanks so much!

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 18:16:44 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: looney tunes from Cynthia
Message:
But you gotta admit, Han, the gooroo's a fuckin' asshole.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 18:02:28 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Fine therapist you'd be, premie-'ji' (nt)
Message:
Fine therapist you'd be, premie-'ji' (nt)
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 19:56:38 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: I forgot the sarcasm emoticon
Message:
I forgot the sarcasm emoticon

;¬<

as in .... white man speaked with forked tongue.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 10:08:55 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Response to O.
Message:
The following is my response to part of a post from O to me from an earlier thread.

(O) I personally have always felt the freedom to discuss ideas with
premies.I have done so with every premie I've gotten close
to.Problem is its hard to find people amongst any group,premies
or otherwise,with enough intelectual prowess to go the
distance.When I find them I love the interaction ,unless they are
abusive snobs about it,I won't mention any names.

(K) I too always discussed ideas with premies when I was a premie. Those who were
friends and a few others. But that was in the days when my criticisms and doubts were
minimal . In the months before my ‘break’ with premiedom the discussions with
premies became few and far between, except with my partner and an instructor,right
at the death. It wasn’t just the intellectual prowess lacking in premies. It was a
general atmosphere of restraint and fear. Fear of speaking out except in positive
ways.I found and still find , premie talk muted and surpressed. As I expressed in my
previous post to you the instructor I spoke to just before my final break said,’if
premies were encouraged to express themselves freely it would be chaotic’. I’d been
one of four people who disrupted a special elan vital meeting. We demanded to be
heard. They had no choice but to listen to us. The tacit conspiracy of silence and
conformity was broken. the guest instructor invited me later to speak privately
outside. We spent about two hours together. He was attentive to what I had to say. We
disagreed on some major points. Finally he said, ‘it seems to me , given your feelings
and views you would be better off going your own way’. I totally agreed with this.
And I’ve never looked back. I have discussed with this instructor on the internet
since. And feel to keep his identity hidden. Otherwise I would not feel free to share
other things he told me if I feel it’s appropriate. The point I’d especially make here is
this. Personally, I can’t agree with a view that the premies minds cannot be trusted to
enter into open debate. Does ‘chaos’ mean that if premies were encouraged to express
freely many doubts about Maharaji , knowledge and premiedom in general might
come out into the open? It is obvious to me that the answer is yes. I went to a
weekend meeting a few months before the incident I’ve recalled above. And there
was a little open discussion. The term’closet premies’was used. It was suggested that
it was time now for all the closet premies to come out and begin expressing
themselves. This was the last I heard of this. But at the time there was a type of buzz
of recognition around the room. Most people present could relate to this term’closet
premie’. Premies locked into a closet of authoritarian structure. I’ll not respond to the
rest of your post, O , as this I feel is enough to debate , if you are willing.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 19:54:03 (GMT)
From: O
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: Response to O.
Message:
Keith,of course you are right that for most premies its heresy to speak out in a negative way towards Maharaji.Its important to look at why.As many have observed,there are two potential forces that enter into premiedom.One is the non-worldly pursuit of inner enlightenment,and the other is the purely worldly pursuit of position within premie society.One way to jeopardize your positin in the society is to speak negatively against M.In fact through the years it is the people who don’t have a position to proctect that have the most critisism about everything.Sometimes that is very refreshing if it is constructive.Other times it is down right tedious.
I personally think all premies need to come to terms with their doubts as soon as they can.But recognize that doubts may just be personal questions not yet answered,and therefore not constructive to flaunt?Better to spend effort finding the answers to your questions and share your doubts as you would anything personal with those you confide in.Unless of course your goal is to incite doubt which is of course the objective of most exers.I have so far always been able to find answers to my doubts that retain the master/student relationship and part of how I do that is to experienceKnowledge.Someone who isn’t able to do this writes Maharaji off and then their objective is to instill the same doubts in others that they have.I find it tiresome when people always fly their negativity in my face.And if they try to win me over I find it an intrusion of my personal space.
You have to ask why they do it.Probable answer is so they can feel more confident that they are OK in numbers.I don’t buy the mask that their doing it to help others.How all of a sudden did they become so altruistic when they were never that way as premies?Of course there may be kind souls who really do think their helping mankind.But then there’s a sufi saying that more harm is done in this world by well-meaning ignorant people than by wicked people.Aint that the truth!
Cheers.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 22:00:59 (GMT)
From: Lotus Eater
Email: None
To: O
Subject: Response to O.
Message:
Dear O,
What an interesting post, you make some good points about proselytising. Of course, none of would have ever received knowledge if someone hadn't TOLD us about it. Personally, as a recent ex, I care a lot about my friends, most of whom are premies. I am finding that, bar a couple of exceptions, I cannot discuss what I think about knowledge or Maharaji with them as it is too distressing for them. This does not stop me from trying to get them to question their own beliefs, in my experience it did me a lot of good to hear from the exes on this forum.

The second thing was about the pursuit of 'position' in the premie community, as distinct from the pursuit of 'inner realisation'. I don't see it as simplistically as that. Many premies feel that their inner experience, and their 'inner connection with the big M' is affected, even threatened by what happens in the community. LE

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 23:27:15 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: Lotus Eater and O.
Subject: Response to O and Lotus Eater.
Message:
Many points made above. The forces within premiedom that vie for position. Ego games probably ineviatable within any authoritarian structure as 'The Guru Papers' contend. But although I realise that this is not the real purpose or significance in an organisation, the conspiracy of silence it engenders I find crippling. When I tried to justify my contiued involvement with Maharaji and premies (2 years ago) some ex's here challenged me to try and discuss some of my and their grievances with people, especially those 'in position of some status' within E.V . The ex's doubted I would get very far. I did try. And this culminated with the discussion with the instructor that I've already shared with you. His final view on this was something like ,'if you really want to persist in asking questions and being critical(no matter how constructively)then I feel you should leave the 'fold'. This is not justified ,for me, by saying that open and critical debate would engender doubt. Doubts are friends in my book. They keep you on your toes. Of course the more extreme ex's here are not capable of any reasoned debate anyway. But the same could be said for the more extreme premies too. Unfortunately, such 'forces' in both 'camps' can tend to overly dominate and hence stiffle reasoned debate. And I perceive in both camps an insidious conformist strain. A fear of stepping too far out of line. So the 'bullies' (even seemingly nice bullies) tend to set the tone. But ,ever the optimist I believe that slowly slowly more and more individuals in both camps can moderate. I do not feel that I'm in the doubt making business for its own sake. There is more involved than premies silently acknowledging an experience within that transcends all this 'more worldly stuff'. Or 'mental stuff'. We dwell in a multi dimensional existence. It all matters. Reconciliation needs to occur inwardly and outwardly. Free speech is essential. IMHO.
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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 23:13:48 (GMT)
From: O
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: More rambling thoughts
Message:
Keith, I'm not sure what there is to debate.To me,it's either Maharaji and Knowledge satisfies what they are suppose to satisfy or not.The answer to that is found through experience not through debate.I know that's the party line but I fear it is true.
Doubt most definitely stiffles the experience of anything.Doubt your math teacher's ability to teach math and you will not learn as much math.Same with Knowledge.Debate will never satisfy your doubt,only an experience,but debate will likely increase doubt.Yes you can look at all things you think you understand and try and fill in the holes with things you don't understand and ask why this and why that,but is it relavant to the enrichment of the experience of K?Of course if him having a bigger house than someone is an issue of biblical proportions for them they are gonna have a trust problem and doubt will chip away at their experience causing them to want to debate.
On the other hand it is possible to express and entertain questions and not challenge your trust in any components of the process of K.That is where honesty,openess and a grounding in a real experience of whatever it is you're experiencing are needed.I have found K to provide a grounding in what I really am so I don't always have to fight the currents caused by debate and ideas in order to 'be',if you know what I mean.
As for conformity,it sucks.No let me change that to conformity to something artificial or for the sake of acceptance sucks.Non-conformity for its own sake also sucks.Comnformity to reality is inevitible for everyone.
Anyway that's my brain dump for the day. Cheers.
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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 00:33:09 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: O
Subject: More rambling thoughts
Message:
yes yes yes. But where does Maharaji 'have ' to fit into the equation? No. Let me put this a little more carefully. The inner ground of experience is what should be honoured most of all. But aligning this inner ground of experience with the whole being, ie, mental and physical, is what being human is about. So Maharaji is just one messanger among many. One reminder among many. One inspirer among many. Including you? So why should he foster such a focus on himself. Personality cult I feel is counter productive in the long run. Hence the growing numbers of frustrated and angry ex premies. And I know frustrated premies too. I was one. And not the only one.
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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 01:23:39 (GMT)
From: O
Email: None
To: Keith
Subject: More rambling thoughts
Message:
Keith it comes down to how important is what he teaches in the scheme of things IMHO?It's a little more important than auto mechanics or math,to me at least.The experience I'm talking about is IT (no not information technology) you know the IT everyone is looking for.Exers dispute that he can teach you that but that is my humble experience for what its worth.To make that available to me(which no one else did by the way) puts him on a pretty high pedestal in my books.He's the one who showed me everything my heart wanted to know,and it doesn't detract one bit from the experience by putting him up there.In my opinion someone living needs to be up there so might as well be him.Certainly not me.He's the teacher,I'm the student.Every teacher needs a pedestal,yes?How high a pedestal depends on the nature of what is being taught.In this case it is something divine.Thank God it's possible to learn it!If you feel you don't need him in order to learn IT,you know that's cool with me.
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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 03:03:48 (GMT)
From: Keith
Email: None
To: O
Subject: More rambling thoughts
Message:
Fine with me too,O. I too felt that way. For many years. Unlike many ex's here I'm not at odds with you. I can agree to disagree with you. In fact it's not even a disagreement in my book. It is a difference in perspective and choice. If it really works for you your way then who am I to question that. B.T.W. I still meditate (I dislike the term 'practicing knowledge'). It's Maharaji and Elan Vital I've left behind. Cheers.
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Date: Sun, Jun 18, 2000 at 15:20:17 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Keith/O
Subject: K and O
Message:
Just got to this thread,finally. You two are a joy to follow.
Thank you.

Elaine

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 05:26:57 (GMT)
From: sam
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: where?
Message:
I cant see any input since tuesday- is it the computer or shutdown?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 05:28:17 (GMT)
From: sam
Email: None
To: sam
Subject: where?
Message:
yes, I found it, it was my error- sorry
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 05:08:47 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Truth and nothing but the truth
Message:
This is a framework I use when working with adults. See if it is any use for you. I reckon it is useful when viewing many posts on this forum and when thinking about previous beliefs I have held with great conviction.

'Our beliefs are the truth'
The truth is obvious
Our beliefs are based on real ddata
The data we select are the real data'

or in first person

'My beliefs are the truth'
The truth is obvious
My beliefs are based on real ddata
The data I select is the real data'
(Peter Senge et al Fifth Discipline Fieldbook p 242)

Cheers for now

Peter Howie

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 12:55:35 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Truth and nothing but the truth
Message:
Hello Peter,

Interesting 'framework.' Could you fill me in as to what context with adults you use this in? I work with adults too, for the most part - adult ed, but I can't think of how I could work this into any of my classes. ;-) I'll do a search on Peter Senge now.

Thanks for the post.

Stonor

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 02:40:27 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Truth and nothing but the truth
Message:
Dear Stonor

I use it along with a framework called the 'Ladder of Inference' to highlight that it is very easy to jump to conclusions and that once the conclusions are jumped to it is almost impossible to come down from them because the conclusion effects which data I then use. e.g. If someone comes to work fifteen minutes late - if I notice this and conclude that they are lazy in their work then I will notice only those things that confirm for me they are lazy in their work. And the belief is based on real data - they were after all late - however the next step requires me to check out why they were late rather than rest with my assumptions. The Ladder of Inference stuff on the internet fits with this stuff.

I get people to think of a person they work with whom they don't like and get them to consider upon what data this opinion is based and whether or not there is some non-confirming evidence that they have not noticed. Also most people can relate to someone else having made enormous and erroneous assumptions about themselves based on data that was completely misinterpreted (e.g the person being 15 minutes late has just come from taking their sick child to the cancer ward at the hospital)

Cheers

Peter Howie

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 03:04:16 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Truth and nothing but the truth
Message:
Hi Peter,

Thanks for expanding your post. I'm looking forward to reading more about it. Sounds this kind of thinking and practice could help to make this world a MUCH better place to live! I'll also do a search on the Ladder of Inference.

I remember the last time you posted about 'being right'. It was really interesting. I hope you caught my (on the late side) response.

Good talking with you,

Stonor

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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 22:09:22 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Reality at last!
Message:
Imagine you could view the scene around you for 3,000 years, without dying or growing old. What would happen around you? People, would grow old, dry up, and blow away. Languages and cultures would come and go. The physical structures around you would crack, collapse, and eventually blow away in a gust of wind.

Life is a dream on a slightly different scale than our sleeping dreams. Life is a dream.

Paraphrase of the Buddha

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 16:01:17 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Reality at last!
Message:
People, would grow old, dry up, and blow away

Isn't it time for YOU to 'dry up and blow away'?

OK OK, we've all read Lao T'zu, but Dog the point is we DON'T live 'for 3000 years without dying or growing old'. We live for however long we live, we do get old and die. And the process does not, as these Eastern airheads would have us believe, pass by in a flash as nothing. We live day-to -day and are for the most part aware of the slow passage of time.

The cop out of zen buddhism, as interpreted by folk like yourself, is to glibly dismiss the feelings and experiences of our lives as transient, ergo illusory. Well think about that next time you have a bad case of Montezuma's Revenge and life on the toilet DOES seem like an eternity.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 15:31:29 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Time to wake up Dog.
Message:
Hi Dog,

It's easy to talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?

If this creation is just a big dream, why did the creator bother creating it in the first place? Wouldn't she have done better making a real universe?

And, if the ultimate reality is infinitely wise - how come she made this half-arsed illusion? Surely perfection can do better.

Imagine going to the baker to buy bread, then getting home to find it was an illusion- the loaf was made of paper mache. What a bummer and what a baker.

And you're trying to tell me that God has played the same trick on us. Hmmmn. Maybe there's another explanation Dog.

Maybe the ultimate reality doesn't taste of snot after all.

Maybe the creator isn't as stupid as you think.

And maybe the creator doesn't live in an eyesore on the side of a hill in Malibu either.

And finally Dog, maybe you're the one living in delusion. It's time to leave room for a little doubt in your mind.

Anth the Dreamer

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 06:42:14 (GMT)
From: Grim Reaper
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Reality at last!--or is it Unreality First?
Message:
I don't wish this upon you, but if your wife or child died tomorrow, you wouldn't be spouting this 'life is a dream' horseshit. And I could give a rat's ass if Big Buddha said it. It's only because you're so ensconced in your bourgeois comfort, be it the self-satisfaction you appear to enjoy because you've got a handle on the 'truth' (aka residing within inside your breath--been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, my friend), or the ease with which you flick from your shoulder the fly of discomfiting questions under the guise of they're being irrelevant or relative, that you think you can baffle us with spiritual bullshit, which you so serenely select from your corral of holy quotes.

To tell you the truth, I find more real-life spiritual solace from a Bukowski madrigal, a Raymond Carver short story, than from a Rumi or Kabir poem (not that I don't enjoy them also).

Life is real, and dreams are real. Check it out.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 14:46:59 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Grim Reaper
Subject: Reality at last!--or is it Unreality First?
Message:
You said, 'Life is real, and dreams are real. Check it out.'

I say, life might be a dream but it's important and we should enjoy ourselves. We should do everything we can to enjoy this life which includes experiencing more than just our minds. We should get in touch with all that we are, i.e., our Buddha nature, Atman, soul, Friend, inner Christ, higher power, Self, spirit . . . . .

I hope I'm not baffling you with more spiritual bullshit.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 16:09:16 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: That's quite a crowd in your head there Dog
Message:
Buddha nature, Atman, soul, Friend, inner Christ, higher power, Self, spirit..

Do they all speak to you at once?

If life is just a dream, who's the one doing the dreaming?

You are taking the piss, right?

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 17:18:36 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Rob, let me explain again
Message:
Buddha nature = Atman = soul = Friend = inner Christ = higher power = Self = spirit = void ..

It's all the same thing Rob. The void/spririt etc. is our true nature. As Shakespeare said, 'A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.' These are simply different words describing the same thing. Follow me so far Rob?

The sun is always shinging, always present, though often obscured. Meditation helps us cut through the 'clouds' that obstruct our natural wisdom, so we can see our true nature.

So, when we practice we become who you were before thinking, before the universe took form. And when we come back into form, as we inevitably will, we are refreshed, revitalized, clear, happy, calm, peaceful, awake, with that 'joie de vivre,' that 'je ne sais quoi.' That's why so many people value Knowledge.

If you have any trouble understanding this Rob please ask someone to read this post and explain it to you. I can't make it any more clear.

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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 01:15:33 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Well I guess I'm just a thicko then DD
Message:
Silly me, fancy thinking they were all different people in your head!

Did you read the post I last made to Han, where I described 10 ways to spot a cult member? Well you just reminded me of another:

11. The 'spokesperson' phenomenon. Preaching in the third person plural tense.

It goes something like this:

Meditation helps us cut through the 'clouds' that obstruct our natural wisdom, so we can see our true nature.

....when we practice we become who (we) were before thinking, before the universe took form....

....when we come back into form, as we inevitably will, we are refreshed, revitalized, clear, happy, calm, peaceful, awake, with that 'joie de vivre,' that 'je ne sais quoi.'

Maybe I'll have more luck asking you the questions I asked Han, and if you can manage it, reply in the first person singular would you?

1. When did you last 'cut through the clouds' during practice of knowledge techniques?

2. Did you see your true nature? What did it look like?

3. When you practiced last, did you indeed change into some precognitive, pre-Big Bang alternate life form? How do you know that state existed before the universe took form?

4. When you leap from your blanket after an hour practicing the techniques of knowledge, do you always feel as you described? How is that different from getting a good night's sleep? Does that feeling warrant Maharaji proclaiming himself as the Lord?

See Dog the problem I am having with Han is trying to get him away from preaching what I have tagged 'someone else's one-liners'. In other words, he keeps replying to me with cliches and spiritual platitudes, when all I really want, being the dumb fuck that I am, are simple descriptions of his own experiences. Can you help me out here?

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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 03:56:37 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Rob, you are lucky I'm here to explain this to you
Message:
Rob,

You know I was going to say you instead of us but I thought that would be too unfriendly, you know like I was preaching.

You asked,

1. When did you last 'cut through the clouds' during practice of knowledge techniques?

Today around 1400 hrs.

2. Did you see your true nature? What did it look like?

Don't know. I wasn't there, i.e. the me who sees had taken a hike.

3. When you practiced last, did you indeed change into some precognitive, pre-Big Bang alternate life form? How do you know that state existed before the universe took form?

I'm not sure, and the scriptures.

4. When you leap from your blanket after an hour practicing the techniques of knowledge, do you always feel as you described? How is that different from getting a good night's sleep? Does that feeling warrant Maharaji proclaiming himself as the Lord?

Don't use a blanket, not always, and there is a clarity with meditation I don't get from sleep. You should try it. 'Does that feeling warrant Maharaji proclaiming himself as the Lord?' When I'm in that state the question is irrelevant.

I really want, being the dumb fuck that I am, are simple descriptions of his own experiences. Can you help me out here?

Why, so you can compare them to your own? And why do you want descriptions. Would a description of a four star meal satisfy you? Or a sexual encounter? When I am in that state the reporter who constantly records and describes is thankfully non-existent. It's as if he had vanished into thin air.

Now Rob, I hope you've learned something from this note. If you have Knowledge practice it, and take what you get. Remember, comparing is despairing. And Rob, if you have any difficulty understanding what I've said here tonight, ask Katie to explain.

-- Dogg

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Date: Sun, Jun 18, 2000 at 08:09:02 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: You are barking up the wrong tree dog,
Message:
and pissing all over yourself.

HE has made it quite plain, that it's a triangle between you, him, and the knowledge.

So if rob meditates and experiences something he would describe in identical terms to you, it can't be, because without guru, no knowledge.

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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 04:31:29 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Hey I'm impressed!
Message:
No really, I gotta hand it to you, you rose to the challenge like a man and gave simple, honest (I hope) answers from your own experience:)

Which is really all I was wanting from Han, but he wriggled and writhed his way out and just kept throwing these hackneyed concepts around, which is quite annoying.

In answer to your counter-question; No I wasn't wanting to compare spiritual penis sizes with Han, I was simply trying to get the guy to talk straight with me, because until we cross that little barrier any further conversation is useless.

So anyway, what is your take on this Rawat dude? I mean I know you said when you're in 'that state' it's irrelevant, which is fine if that's your experience, but you know, in general...letting us believe he's the Lord of the Universe and all that. Lot to swallow, don't you think?

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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 04:59:49 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Well I'm not
Message:
Dogg hits the easy ones but runs back to the dugout at the mere sign of a fastball. Don't you, Dogg?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 04:30:12 (GMT)
From: (Sir) David
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Wake up!!! It's NOT a dream.
Message:
If you think this is a dream mate, you've missed the point of it. It all real and it's all happening. If George Stephenson thought this was all a dream, we'd still be riding around in horses and carts.

If Michael Farraday had thought it was all a dream, there would be no computers and only candlelight to read your posts by, written on paper.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 04:21:35 (GMT)
From: (Sir) David
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Reality at last!
Message:
I want to share with you a few of the tentative conclusions I've reached regarding Mr. Deputy Dog's memoranda. And I stress the word 'tentative,' because the subject of what motivates Mr. Dog is tricky and complex. But first, let me pose you a question: Is Mr. Dog actually concerned about any of us, or does he just want to deprive individuals of the right to carry out the famous French admonition, écrasez l'infâme!!, against his grievances? After reading this letter, you'll definitely find it's the latter. His cronies have cooperated closely with sexist derelicts on several projects. If you doubt this, just ask around. Yes, you heard me right; he can't discuss anything without talking about careerism. And let me tell you, what we're involved in with him is not a game. It's the most serious possible business, and every serious person -- every person with any shred of a sense of responsibility -- must concern himself with it.

As for me, I have no bombs, no planes, no artillery, and no terrorist plots. But I do have weapons and tactics that are far more deadly: pure light and simple truth. I receive a great deal of correspondence from people all over the world. And one of the things that impresses me about it is the massive number of people who realize that my dream is for tired eyes to open and see clearly, broken spirits to find new energy, and weary arms to find the strength to carry out this matter to the full extent of the law. As you can see, there is no place in this country where we are safe from Mr. Dog's lackeys, no place where we are not targeted for hatred and attack. It is high time for someone to begin the debate about Mr. Deputy Dog's utterances. Will that someone be you?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 13:43:55 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: (Sir) David
Subject: (Sir) David, please lighten the fuck up! (nt)
Message:
Row row row your boat
gently down the stream . . . . . . . .
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 15:10:25 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: The yokes on you, Pup
Message:
You got egg on yer face...again. It's a complaint generator, stupes, a computer program.

It justs proves how gullible you really are.

Good job, Dave !!!

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 02:39:23 (GMT)
From: BreathManiac
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Reality at last!
Message:
I couldn't agree with you more, DD. See my post below concerning Guru Maharaj Ji, who I believe mouths half-hearted Hindu beliefs...I say, go whole hog and leave Maya behind. There is no reason to believe GMJ has left illusion behind. No reason at all.
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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 19:04:47 (GMT)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Why I didn't go to Boston
Message:
Hello Everyone,
Some of you might remember me, some may think I don't exist. I've been away from the Forum for quite a while now and decided to come back here to see what folks are up to. I decided I'd dip my toes in the waters in here because I was called last week by an old premie (way out of the blue) who called to inform me about BOSTON!! Yeah, like 3 days before the event!

Anyways, the reasons I didn't go to Boston:

1. I hate maharaji
2. I can't stand the sound of his voice.
3. I'm REALLY sick of old premies who can't see through their programming fog and still think he's the Lord. (Feel kind of sorry for them, too).
4. I really, really hate maharaji--what a phony.
5. He probably just wants more money for a new plane and I'm still pissed off about the one I helped build that he never kept.
6. I needed to give myself a manicure/pedicure on that day.
7. Holding programs on a workday: is it a test???
8. My catbox needed cleaning.
9. I'd rather listen to a Joni Mitchel album (that dates me)
10.I sincerely, hate the guy.
11.The garbage needed to be taken out.

That's basically it. I wasn't even thinking about m for a long time and this premie had to call me about the program--I've known about it, still get the mailings, etc., but it's the last place on earth I'd want to go.

The Ex-Premie site has been updated and redesigned somewhat...looking very good. Millions of Kudos to Jean-Michele for your courage and persistence. I don't know how you have the stomach for it, but keep up the great work. Copyright infringement? How about m's total infringement on a great portion of our lives?

I hope it's acceptable to everyone that I've posted here. Don't know if I will again. I just got that really icky feeling...hearing from a premie. That old cult feeling, not feeling drawn in, but more like being reminded of many years and dollars wasted. This is the only place where former premies do get it and understand what it's like to have been involved with the hamster. It's quite apparent that EV is watching this site closely and that very, very good. Threatened a bit are they??

I laughed a lot about the 'should m be forgiven' thread. I'm glad that the sense of humor is still alive here, as well as the incredible body of information available to the public and potential suckers. Forgive maharaji?

NEVER!! I will though, forgive myself for buying into his crap and for everything I've deprived myself of during my involvement with him.

Best wishes to everyone,
Cynthia G.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 01:57:17 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: The Cynthia?
Message:
Is this the same Cynthia who went off on Sir Dave (around the beginning of January), and told him she hopes he 'shits himself in his wheelchair'? If I remember correctly, gErRy and I shared an extreme passion for this hot tamale of a woman.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 02:23:37 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: ssshhh let sleeping dogs lie but then again
Message:
It may help me look sane.
But then again.. I don't want to and don't give a shit.
oh
this isn't email
OK bye
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 04:36:15 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: ssshhh let sleeping dogs lie but then again
Message:
Relatively speaking, you're June Cleaver.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 05:18:04 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: you know I have been noticing that lately :)
Message:
And the oddest part of all. I kinda like it.
switch and bait part at least. I mean it makes F5 interesting
thank you for noticing.
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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 04:55:12 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: and ps Powerman
Subject: I'm remembering something you posted recently
Message:
about not trusting subcultures in general.
I think you are right on.
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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 20:35:32 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Why I didn't go to Boston
Message:
Very interesting,, 3 out of 11 reasons proclaim your Hate for a person who spends his entire life showing people a way to find
a little peace inside themselves....Well Cynthia,, Perhaps you should seek out a good therapist,, or better yet just end it all,, so there might be one less 'hateful' person in the world.

No,,on second thought,,,there is one thing I 'Hate',,,as well,
It's when an emotionally unbalanced person receives knowledge
for all the wrong reasons and then has to spend the rest of their life 'hating' in order to justify walking away. No one gives a shit whether you attend or not Cynthia. In fact your the only one who cares if you even breathe or not. I've had Knowledge for 30 yrs. and frankly,,, you missed the whole point.

Catch me on a good day,,and I'll tell you how I really feel.

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 20:01:14 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Han, did you ever apologize to Cynthia?
Message:
That 'end it all' remark was taken badly here.

I breezed right thru it the first reading, didn't take it too seriously - compared to some mean things I've read here - didn't have time to see if you ever apologized.

It would be a 'good thing',if you haven't already.

Regards,
Elaine

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 23:55:17 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: your Hate
Message:

spends his entire life showing people a way to find a little peace inside themselves

Nice introductory video type talk, you forget who you're having a conversation with. He spends a lot of time convincing people that they need him and talking them into giving him money. Oh yes, and he talks about lots of other stuff, a little bit about meditation and consciousness. Also, you think he doesn't spend a lot of time doing other things like raising a big family, acquiring expensive mansions, cars, yachts, watches, stereos etc. etc. using premies' money?

Suggesting that someone 'just end it all' is very Hateful. So is 'your the only one who cares if you even breathe or not'. Who are you to say that there is no one who cares about her? I would bet loads of money that there are plenty of people who care about her.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 03:43:47 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Why I didn't go to Boston
Message:
Jeeze,Hal - I've never known you to be talking like this - I kinda like it. It's ......this isn't Hal ....who IS this?
Elaine B.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 16:19:54 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Why I didn't go to Boston
Message:
Elaine,
I've read some of your earlier posts,,You seem to be a person living an experience (life,love,truth,,) If you'd like to connect,, post an address, and I'll respond.
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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 19:53:30 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Why I didn't go to Boston
Message:
If it's ok w/ you - you can post me here ----just ignore any crap fr others.

FUCK OFF,HAN.YOU'RE AN IDIOT!!!

See, that's as bad as it gets. Feel the feeling ---let it go breathe one and two and GONE!

If you handled that ok ---just post me here.

Sorry if that confused you.Just trying to toughen you up so you'll stay around.

Elaine

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 22:34:33 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Thanks Elaine,,
Message:
Elaine,
I know you, we were married,,,,
You beat me then too. ;)

I've had a couple nice exchanges with Rob,, but my take on this place is,, It's mostly humorous, and not much on substance.

And yes,,,, I did apologize to poor little ms. misunderstood.
It's listed above when she returned.

Take care,,see ya
Han

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 20:12:16 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Why do you do that?
Message:
Elaine:
I don't understand why you do that. It's the 3rd or 4th time I've seen you do it. If that's what you think of us, why do you come here? And if someone did indeed do that to dear old Han, perhaps it's because he suggested to Cynthia that she commit suicide. I've taken several long hikes around the spiritual block, and I don't think that there exists a new age spin that justifies encouraging suicide, particularly in order to let Han off the hook for his behavior. Using his stated rationale that Cynthia has 'hate issues,' Hansa Bansa let rip some hateful stuff himself. Whassup wid that? Is it okay because he's 'within inside,' that sixth dimension that only the practitioners of K/devotees of M can enter?

But why do you, under the guise of toughening up a poster, emotionally assault him/her and then shift the trauma of his/her gut response onto 'that's what you get here,' thereby removing yourself from the equation which you yourself concocted? I have to say such behavior reeks of some passive-aggressive stunt or unconscious something or other. You know that that behavior is not the norm here, although it does exist.

I am curious, though. Pray tell.

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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 00:40:42 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: Why do you do that?
Message:
Monmot,
I was just preparing him. Not that he or anyone needs it.
When I see a new poster and they seem to be either a premie or 'new - agey' they usually end up with plenty of rudeness and/or hurtful words. When it first happens it is really shocking.
Often,the new person is like a babe in the woods innocently thinking they are being understood and then wham - hurtful,mean words.
I'm not saying - Han or Keith - are babes on the woods -(I think that's who I did this prep work with.)

I was tolerant of Han's 'outburst' as I am of many outbursts here. It was not cool or sensitive.

What's that 6th dimension about? I don't want to start relating to sarcasm - it's not my thing. Sorry. Been there,don't like it. But, I understand it allows you to express and get your anger out.

I can see why you wouldn't like my doing that 'prep work' -
Can't say I may not do it again tho.

I really wish someone nice here would have done that to me. So,I guess that's why I do it -I've done plenty of passive-agg stuff
so I know all about that shit. If I catch myself doing that I hope I catch it ---it's really chicken shit stuff to do --I've been in plenty of therapy - so I'd rather be more up front - since I've spent so much money to be mentally healthy and mature.

Elaine

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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 02:06:19 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Why do you do that?
Message:
I think it's just as easy to warn a new poster about the possibilities of certain behaviors, but def think it's fucked to cold cock someone and tell them you do it to prepare them for more cold cocks. Do whatever you want, and take Hansa Bansa with you. I'll just skip your posts to spare myself the sight.

And I think you and Han should announce your privacy needs beforehand and then go on the attack, rather than set the boundary after the fact.

Thanks for your response, though.

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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 15:03:05 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: You prob won't read this then...
Message:
Monmot,
Han and I don't need privacy,BTW. He's new here - but I wouldn't expect any patience from anyone to understand that.

Good, that was very wise of you to decide to skip my posts - and I will do the same.
This is just the reactionary - unable to deal with things - anger-based result I should have expected from someone in this site.
Coping skills and Conflict-Resolution don't exist much here.

When you can cope with someone else's style - mine -or when you can learn to converse with someone with a different view without shutting down or getting sarcastic... get in touch...

Elaine

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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 18:26:58 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: I have read it...and
Message:
Elaine:
If you re-read my post to you, you'll see that there's no sarcasm. There's some anger, and I believe that anger has its purpose at times. I've been posting here for quite a while, and I don't go off on people at the drop of a hat. I was quite aware that Han was new, thank you very much, but I think if you look at his first post, it was quite hateful and angry, suggesting that Cyntyhia commit suicide. And you're defending that? I'm not into getting into fights, either online or offline, and I don't hold grudges. I just wanted to ask you why you verbally cold-cock people under the somewhat patronising guise of toughening them up. Have you read Alice Miller (For Your Own Good)? She writes about the 'I hit you because I love you' school of parenting. I think that behavior's worth some scrutiny on your part. It appears that you have a fairly negative angle of looking at things here, contrary to what you say you believe.

So, I've read your post, and I've tried to 'communicate' and achieve some 'conflict resolution,' so that's one complaint removed.

And I hope you've noticed that I didn't throw in one profanity or 'fy' as it appears you think we all do. Like I said, I don't hold grudges, so I'm dropping it.

BTW, I'm female.

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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 19:04:58 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: I have read it...and
Message:
1.Well,the '6th dimension' stuff WAS sarcastic.

2. No, I'm not defending Han's first post - I'm just tolerating his outburst. Apparently he said he apologized.

3. No,haven't read Miller's book - but will look at it at the library - I go often.

4. Negative angle at looking at things here - and why wouldn't I?

5.And no - I resent your remark 'as it appears you think we all do'. Do you speak in superlatives often? I most certainly do not think 'you all' say 'fy's'
( or all do anything).

6. Male/ female - I don't really care. (Or I'd like to think I don't, generally.)

7. And let's see -you say some behavior of mine is worthy of
some scrutiny...do you take the time to tell most people that are rude,hurtful,mean the same?? Maybe you could make some changes around here.

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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 19:32:04 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: I have read it...and
Message:
Elaine:
Okay, I'll remove the 'all' from my statements. But you've said that you like to toughen up the newcomers to let them know what to expect. My question, then, is: if 'all' do not attack in that way, then why do you do it to them? It seems to me that implicit in that rationale is the idea that 'all' or 'almost all' the posters here will attack in that manner, and therefore, you're doing them a favor by giving them a taste of things to come. Of course, I could be wrong, but that's the impression I get. I also know you've been jumped on here before, and you're obviously hurt and pissed, and understandably so, and perhaps that's why you do the verbal cold-cock. Many of us have been chewed up and spit out here, but I really don't see many of those posters doing what you're doing. All I'm saying is that it's offputting and worth checking out.

. And let's see -you say some behavior of mine is worthy of some scrutiny...do you take the time to tell most people that are rude, hurtful, mean the same??

Actually, I have taken on a few, to tell you the truth. Raina and I had quite an imbroglio over her telling Stonor to kill herself. I'm certainly not singleing (sp?) you out for 'scrutiny.' I also am not claiming any moral high ground, by any means, since I'm also swimming along with the human race in the fetid waters of our own creation and have my own 'stuff' to deal with.

Maybe you could make some changes around here.

Let's see, Guru is greater than God, but I'd have to be greater than Guru to pull that off. :))

The only reason I mentioned 'female' is that you referred to me as 'him,' and I just wanted to clarify that. I also don't care about male/female now, but did spend most of my childhood wishing I were a boy.

BTW, I never made it to Ojo Caliente to see your artwork. My friend and I picked up a nasty cold and felt too shitty for a long drive. Maybe next time.

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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 20:55:10 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: I have read it...and
Message:
I didn't realize I said 'him'. But, you're right I did picture you as male -bec of the name - not necessarily the posts.
TY for clarifying.

I believe in self-scrutinizing,big time. And bec I don't 'feel' like self-scrutinizing my 'cold-cocking' ,as you call it, says I need to look at that, probably.

My first reaction to your not liking it was... well,I didn't say it to you so anything you have to say about it I'm not interested in. If 'they'didn't like it, 'they' can tell me so. But, 'they' haven't,BTW. Notice, I didn't write that first thing....I am aware of my reactions alot and tone down my first reactions.

I'm just telling you my thoughts about it. I DO scrutinize sooo much about myself.

Glad our exchanges are better.
Gotta go,Elaine

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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 21:10:52 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Okey-Doke...
Message:
E:
I'd say we both engaged in some conflict resolution, and I hope to both our satisfaction, at least. I understand the scrutiny thing (I do it too; must be a by-product of ye olde therapy).

So, shall we put the choppy water behind us?

Tx
M

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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 22:18:28 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: Till next time then,alrighty....nt
Message:
om
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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 19:44:02 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: Raina said THAT???
Message:
'Raina and I had quite an imbroglio over her telling Stonor to kill herself.'

Really? Is it only the defendants of Mr Rawat who do this kind of thing?

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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 19:51:05 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: It's beginning to look like that...
Message:
Han did it too (must be the by-product of THAT place). For clarity's sake, because Elaine and I have been 'talking' in this thread, this suicide thing has nothing to do with Elaine. I don't want another misunderstanding cropping up.
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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 22:53:32 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: Why do you think?
Message:
Mon,
Does she pay you for that kind of analysis...???
Or are you the site shrink?? Or did you just decide your unsolicited psycho-babble was so necessary, that you just had to
hear yourself.
Say something constructive, or god forbid,
something inspiring,, or stay out of my conversations.
Thank you,
Han
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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 02:01:23 (GMT)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: This is what I think...
Message:
Hansa Bansa Baby:
That was no analysis, that was my opinion on a behavior which I think is unnecessary.

If you want a private conversation, then go offline with Elaine, or whomever, and spout your sappy shit there.

Besides, aren't you disobeying your Lord and Master's wishes by being here? If so, then I think I just might have more right to be here than you, Big Boy.

Take a hike within inside, Mr. Enlightenment (not).

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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 00:48:48 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Why do you think?
Message:
Han,
That's what happens here and is ok. People comment on everything. No conversation is private.

Lots of posts that seem to be in the middle of an exchange I don't even read - if it's fr a usually rude type.

Monmot and I are ok with each other and it's ok for him to ask me why I do something. You'll see that alot here. It's the nature of the place.

Where about's are you from - you may be vague if you wish.How long have you been reading here - ever post before. How long with K. Still practicing? Go to the programs?
You don't have to ans any of these,of course.:)

See ya later,
Elaine

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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 01:16:22 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: My apologies,,,
Message:
Elaine,
Sorry, and my apologies to Monmot, sincerely.
Perhaps I was too quick to judge. Be well.
Han

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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 01:44:57 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: It's cool,talk with you later :) NT
Message:
om
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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 15:50:53 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: What a limp, bogus jargon, you premies have!
Message:
I won't even get into your grammar and punctuation other than to say that if that's really how you write you obviously missed out on some basic education.

But that jargon? 'Living an experience'? Yech!

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 22:20:51 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Lawyers have an even more bogus jargon IMO (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 00:15:24 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: And how about the unemployed, Dog? (nt)
Message:
ggggg
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 09:37:13 (GMT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: Elaine
Subject: Hi Elaine!!!!
Message:
Hi
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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 19:46:29 (GMT)
From: Elaine
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Harrysan!!!
Message:
Pranam. :)
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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 23:21:42 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Get the whole picture, Han
Message:
Very interesting,, 3 out of 11 reasons proclaim your Hate for a person who spends his entire life showing people a way to find
a little peace inside themselves...

Get one thing straight, Han. Only half of M's message is about peace inside. The other half is about how glorious he is and how we should be eternally grateful to him since he's the only hope for us finding that peace. Fuck him. I need him to find peace within like I need a hole in the head. He's an egomaniac. If it was just about peace within that he was interested in, I doubt anybody here would have a problem with him. It's about his stake on divinity we take issue with. Or haven't you heard?

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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 23:47:14 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Get the whole picture, Han
Message:
There's only one thing to get straight Jerry,
All things visible change. The only thing you have known in your
life that hasn't changed is, your still breathing. Within inside
of that breath is you. That's the key, and the message, and that hasn't changed either.
Han
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 23:28:18 (GMT)
From: the breath
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: the breath
Message:
A few times I have purposely held my breath for a minute or more, yet I still was alive and aware.

What about the heart beating, the blood flowing? Does that mean that you are within your heartbeat or the flow of your blood?

Breath meditation may indirectly help you be more self aware, but that is entirely different than saying that you are within the breath.

Consider that there was/is a superstition that the breath is literally life itself.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 03:18:12 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Han - a serious, non-flaming question
Message:
This last post of yours is a melange of idioms we've all heard repeatedly over the years. My question to you, and one which I wonder if you dare even ask yourself, is what is your own experience?

For example, are you 'within inside' your breath? I mean, really? How do you know? What do you look/sound/feel/taste like? How do you know that is YOU? Do you understand how the breathing mechanism actually works? It's really a straightforward chemical/neuro-electrical stimulation process, nothing mystical about it. I have personally seen people undergo open-heart surgery in which their heart was deliberated stopped, ergo their breathing, and both were taken over by machines. If that person were really exisiting 'within inside' their breath, where did they go during surgery, and how was the anaethestist able to play God and bring them back so easily?

One last one. When was the last time you sat down and took a long, hard, objective look at what you actually experience when you practice (you DO practice, don't you Han?)? Do you sit and fidget for an hour, think, plan, fantasise, maybe calm down a little and get up feeling inadequate but perhaps a little smug? After all, you're trying aren't you, and that's what counts, right?

Well Han, time to wake up and smell the coffee sunshine, because that's the best it's ever gonna get, and the only difference between you and the rest of us here, is that at some point we had the guts to admit that and start looking at the whole shebang with some degree of objectivity.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 04:18:26 (GMT)
From: premie lurker
Email: stleary@swbell.net
To: Rob
Subject: Rob - a serious, non-flaming answer
Message:
Well, those are good points, and ones which I have considered. I agree that the experience of meditation, right now, good, bad, or indifferent, is the best that it's going to get. I honestly have no real understanding of what it means to say 'Within inside of that breath is you'. I am strongly tempted to say that it rings true and feels right, but around this group, that would be a fatal error, I think :-) I still love to meditate, even with all the fidgeting and thinking, just don't know exactly why. I guess the main difference between me and the rest of you, is that I still believe it has value. For me, not necessarily anyone else.
OK, back to lurking...
Sean Leary
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 04:42:51 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: premie lurker - sean?
Subject: and another
Message:
Sean, is it? (and I assume not Han?)

Hi, thanks for the comments and the honesty. I think that no matter what you 'honestly believe', if you express yourself sincerely and without the callous mockery of Han and his cronies, you will actually be received and answered likewise. The crux of the matter really isn't whether or not meditation tickles your fancy - I think a quick straw poll would reveal that a few ex-premies do in fact practice meditation, as does a percentage of the populace at large. The calming effects of slow, quiet breathing, release of seratonin and endorphins, stimulation of alpha & beta rhythms etc are well documented and not actually in dispute here.

No the crux of the matter really is Maharaji and his blatant plagiarism, for profit, of four long-established (in India at least) methods for stimulating our body's natural processes. Oh, and did I mention his creation and perpetuation, again for profit and personal egomania, of a worldwide following of devotees, who naiively attribute the occasional release of seratonin in their brains to some divine boon from him, their master? Therein lies the real difference between those who have awakened and had the courage to face that fact, and the radical, often traumatic, changes it brought in their lives, and perhaps yourself.

So fidget away my friend, if it makes you happy! There are yet more differences between us, which I am sure others here will be happy to fill you in on.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 03:19:28 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: PS - is Han short for Hansi? nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 07:00:19 (GMT)
From: Ever see
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: 'Enter the dragon' with Bruce Lee,,,
Message:
Han is a major character in the film.
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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 11:10:46 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Ever see
Subject: He signs himself 'Hanuman' in another post (nt)
Message:
He signs himself 'Hanuman' in another post (nt)
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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 14:09:10 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: So is Han Bihari Singh?
Message:
Hanuman was meant to be the 'greatest devotee' of Rama.
Hanuman knew that Rama was the incarnation of everything and more.

So, do you believe that maharaji is that which Hanuman believed of Rama?


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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 01:51:20 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Superstitious hogwash (not to mention illogical)
Message:
Even as a premie this stupid idea -- the cornerstone of the cult philosophy, by the way -- bothered me. Sure, your breath is constant. Until it isn't. I mean, what the fuck is that?

What we used to believe, indeed, what you probably still do beleive but are too afraid to admit it, is that the breath just keeps on going somehow after you die. You know, the Elan Vital, the tingler buried in the bottom of your spine (good '50's horror shlock about this thing called the Tingler which everyone's got but no one knows until ......).

You're an idiot.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 00:13:58 (GMT)
From: BreathManiac
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: The Whole Picture, Han:
Message:
Hey, Han. Personally, I love to breathe. I meditate daily. I don't hate Maharaji. But I understand why some ex-premies do. Maybe you have a hard time understanding, since you are still a follower.

But those of us who have moved on (to finding meaning with other gurus, other religions, work, family, friends and science) see something different in GMJ. Someone who only gives lip service to the values we hold so dear. And not very articulate lip service, either.

Read some of the documents you can access on this site. If you are a truly free individual, you will not dismiss them out of hand as being untrue simply because the people who posted them are not members of your religious group. Keep an open mind. A true guru would want you to keep an open mind, right? Or is mind a nasty word?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 01:03:38 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: BreathManiac
Subject: Or is mind a nasty word?
Message:
Or is mind a nasty word?

Hey BreathManiac, the 70's are over! In fact they have been over for about 20 years.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 02:35:00 (GMT)
From: BreathManiac
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Where have you been, DD?
Message:
Dep: I know time has elapsed since I was involved, but Mahraraji's message hasn't changed that much. In fact,yesterday, on this site, a premie started a thread about the mind/heart dichotomy.

BTW, I don't think it's an inherently unuseful concept (not that GMJ traffics in 'concepts'!), but as presented in a simplistic context, yes, I think the idea of demonizing part of yourself can be detrimental to your growth.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 03:03:48 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: BreathManiac
Subject: Where have you been, DD?
Message:
BreathManiac,

Thanks for the thoughtful note. The heart mind dichotomy is also described in Christianity as spirit/flesh. I agree, the idea of demonizing part of yourself can be definitely be detrimental to your growth.

How about recognizing the limitations of part of yourself. The best times I've ever had are when my mind takes a hike. You know, those moments!

We live in a very competitive culture and we need to use our minds. As my buddy Ram Dass said, 'The mind is a good servant but a lousy master.' Couldn't have said it better myself.

-- Dogg

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 01:54:03 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Well, well, look who crawled back in?!
Message:
Dogg,

You coward! Just when I asked you what you thought morally about Maharaji trying to stifle his critics, shut down all dissent, blah, blah, blah, you disappeared. First you tried to skirt the issue, then you disappeared. Well?

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 03:06:55 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hey Jim, will you stop bothering people!
Message:
I've answered your fucking question already. He has a legal right and morality is subjective.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 03:34:33 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Hey Jim, will you stop bothering people!
Message:
If a man tells me he is God incarnate and I believe him, and give him money because I think he is God incarnate, would you not say he was obtaining money by deception? (Unless of course, he WAS God!) Another name for that might be fraud. Would you say he has a legal right to so that? And in which banana republic might that apply to?

On to your other gem morality is subjective.
Subjective: Proceeding from or belonging to the individual consciousness or individuality

Oh I get it, so long as Maharaji (or you) thinks he's doing nothing wrong, morally, then it's OK? Well then, why do we need laws in our land? We could eliminate crime at a stroke, so long as the perpetrators could prove they thought they were acting morally and responsibly! You're a genius DD.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 14:02:07 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Rob - morality is subjective, the law isn't
Message:
What's moral in one country (having four wives) is immoral in another. What is right human conduct in one country is not in another. For example, is it proper to cry at a funeral? In some cultures it isn't. In some Pacific countries, crying at a funeral is the worst thing you can do.

In India, claiming to be divine is no biggie. In Europe and the middle-east, it's serious.

So in this issue I choose to stay away from morality.

You say 'Well then, why do we need laws in our land? We could eliminate crime at a stroke, so long as the perpetrators could prove they thought they were acting morally and responsibly!'

I say we definitely need laws in our land or we would have chaos. It's hard to control how people think though isn't it. Conscience is a personal thing.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 16:28:27 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: You've never looked worse, Dog.
Message:
Dog,

You've really done it this time. And you know exactly what I mean. Time to tighten that mask, huh? Your position is so patently cowardly it would embarrass any real person.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 15:18:42 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Ducking and diving, now I know why Jim gets irate
Message:
In India, claiming to be divine is no biggie. In Europe and the middle-east, it's serious.

So you're saying that so long as maraji stayed in India and pretended to be god, it's cool, but as soon as he came to the west and started the same routine, it became a problem?

Well actually you ain't saying anything I suppose, because you chickened out with So in this issue I choose to stay away from morality. How convenient for you, how comfortable.

Then there was your cross-cultural examples of wives and funerals. Well DD, I wasn't talking about social mores, as in whether one should display emotions over the deceased or bed numerous women etc, I was asking if you thought it morally right to deceive people in such an outrageous way, and filch money by the bucket-load. Which countries is that kind of behavior acceptable in?

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Date: Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 03:16:33 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: Rob, I'll explain myself AGAIN, just for you!
Message:
So you're saying that so long as maraji stayed in India and pretended to be god, it's cool, but as soon as he came to the west and started the same routine, it became a problem?

Yes!

Well actually you ain't saying anything I suppose, because you chickened out with So in this issue I choose to stay away from morality. How convenient for you, how comfortable.

Okay, if people were libeling me and infringing copyright law I would resort to legal recourse. How's that!

Then there was your cross-cultural examples of wives and funerals. Well DD, I wasn't talking about social mores, as in whether one should display emotions over the deceased or bed numerous women etc, I was asking if you thought it morally right to deceive people in such an outrageous way, and filch money by the bucket-load. Which countries is that kind of behavior acceptable in?

What deception? I value Knowledge and I practice it. Avertising and religion deceive. I just practice to feel better, clearer.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 15:08:17 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Mind Control--easy !!!
Message:
It's hard to control how people think though isn't it.

Sadly, it's not at all difficult to control how people think. Lulling them into an alpha brain state and using repetition is just one way. Maharaji does it well. Let's just hope he doesn't get his hands on some of the high tech devices now available. And don't ask me what they are, I'll not be the one to introduce him to them. I do wonder if he is already hip to them, though. Videos are a wonderful media for high tech brainwashing.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 03:23:33 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: THAT's no answer!
Message:
Saying 'morality is subjective' is a completely evasive answer. I aksed you for your judgement and am asking again. What is your opinion -- morally, subjectively, whatever the fuck you want to call it -- about Maharaji trying to stifle dissent? Put another way, do you consider that a morally justified move on his part?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 13:39:55 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: THAT's an answer!
Message:
He has a legal right to stop you from using copyrite material. He has a legal right to protect himself against libel. Leave me out of it. End of story.
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Date: Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 18:00:58 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: To a casual observer...
Message:
... your willingness to answer the legal question (which was never asked) whilst declining the moral one, might be interpreted as:

'No, I don't like the way Maharaji is trying to stifle all personal criticism but am embarrassed to admit it.'

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 15:40:53 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: If only it WERE the 'end of story'
Message:
But you see the deception and the lies continue, DD, and unfortunately so long as you hang around here, slumming with yo' bros' as it were, pitching in the odd (very odd, mind) zen-wannabe observation and trying to cajole us into not getting too serious about this whole thing, because, you know, life is short and full of bunny rabbits, then of course you are going to get walloped.

If you really want to be 'left out of it', then leave!

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 00:13:02 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Get the whole picture, Han
Message:
Well, Han, I guess we all have our ideas about who we are, but what do you think about Maharaji's ideas about who he is? Do you believe he's the living perfect master who's come with more power than he ever has before? I know, he hasn't talked like that in decades. But why did he ever? Is it less true, now, then it was then? If it's just as true, now, why does he no longer stake that claim? How come he's toned it down so? To coin his own phrase from way back when, 'why be shy'? Even the things he says about himself, today. Do you think it's necesarry to 'keep in touch' to grow in understanding? I haven't been to a video presentation or event in two years. I feel better about myself, more alive, more free, and wiser, as well. How is that possible if it's true that I have to keep in touch?

It's not just about going within, Han. Maharaji is not advocating just that. He's making it equally important that you realize the necessity of him in your life. His message is pounded into you again and again that you need him, not just what you have within, but him, him, him, and I've already told you what I think about him in my last post.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 00:13:02 (GMT)
From: Lotus eater
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Get the whole picture, Han
Message:
Dear Han, In my experience, it was everything temporary, ie family, friends, the grass under my feet, the food on my plate that DIDN'T let me down. Focussing too much on your inner breath brings on what I have dubbed the 'wobble effect', Maharaji's contention is that everything in the world is temporary and goes up and down, if you don't want to go up and down with it, then focus on the one thing that is constant. My experience is that it was that very focus that made everything so up and down. LE

PS I am making allowances for you because I know what it's like to believe in the golden hamster, but I would like to add that I thought your response to Cynthia G was extremely unpleasant and though I don't know her, being reasonably new to this forum, I hope you apologise for being so hurtful. One of the nicest things about human beings is that they DO care about eachother.

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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 22:07:35 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Excellent Han! Why didn't I say that?(nt)
Message:
Spirit
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 07:02:47 (GMT)
From: Because you forgotten
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: how to think for yourself
Message:
..which is exactly what m wants from you.
You silly person.
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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 20:53:43 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Your peace is showing...
Message:
Dear Han,

Jai Satchitanand !!! My the bliss of truth as reveal to you by the Great King always shine forth through as it did today. Truly you are a dazzling example of the value of 'going inside' to find that love, that peace, and that truth !!!

Yes, thirty years of knowledge. It IS so beautiful, that place inside you. Joyous are the premies who fall at the Lotus Feet of the Supremest Superior Power in Person.

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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 21:34:46 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Your peace is showing...
Message:
Gerry,
Good one,,, (smile)
At least you remembered how to spell Jai Satch-whatever,
But your living in the serious past man,, Even I haven't heard any of that crap in 25 yrs.
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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 21:41:56 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Your cod piece is showing...
Message:
Seriously, Han, you didn't mean what you said to Cynthia, did you? It was just a fit of pique, right? A reaction to the situation and not a personality characteristic, I hope.
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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 22:53:09 (GMT)
From: Han
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Your cod piece is showing...
Message:
Gerry,
Ok, so I was little caustic with Ms.Cynthia,, She's
got some 'hate' issues. But, let's face it,, If you have to
build a case in order to justify your own lack of experience...
That's scary stuff.
Just walk away.. no hard feelings.
Knowledge is a breath away any time she wants to feel it.
Sorry if I offended anyone.
Han~
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 06:17:23 (GMT)
From: Rob
Email: None
To: Han
Subject: Before you go...
Message:
as I am assuming you are a hit-and-run merchant, but as Columbo might say 'just one more thing..'

Just where were you coming from Han, saying what you did? I mean really, to describe your diatribe, wherein you suggested this poor women commit suicide, accused her of being useless and emotionally unbalanced etc, as being 'a little caustic' is to take a major step sideways from the reality of the situation. And if you can do that so nonchalently, what does it say about YOU, as a person?

Again, the issue is not about how much a person does or does not experience when they sit down and prod themselves for an hour. Nor is it about just 'trying it and walking away' if we don't like it, as you do with those little cracker thingies they offer you in supermarkets. Maharaji isn't offering a new brand of pate, Han, he's leading people to believe he is the Son of God.

Now you have to realize, of course, that over the years he has refined his pitch considerably. Some of us older ones got it straight from the hip, wrapped in a kurta and strung with gardenias - he's The One Come Again. We wrote/learned songs about him and kissed his feet. Today it is much more subtle, of course, in keeping with today's hip street-savvy culture, but it's there, all the same. Try this if you don't believe me: next time you are at an event, just try asking him a question uninvited, or pop backstage and say hi, or hang around the hall set up gang when an 'arrival' is imminent. You do know what I mean, I can smell it a mile off.

So the point is, he's still 'at it' - leading people to believe he is divine. Please don't insult my intelligence by denying this, you know perfectly well what I mean. The hurt comes when sincere people like Cynthia, like myself, like most others here, who perhaps at some point in their lives desparately needed to find a connection with their Creator, God, Perfect Master, etc, were taken in by him, gave a good chunk of their lives up to worship, obey and devote to him, as requested, mind, only to find in the long run he was just another inflated meditation teacher.

He is fraudulent, unrepentent, deceptive, manipulative and callous Han, but all you can see before you is his nice smile and expensive suits, and his contemporary 'take it or leave it' attitude.

And you, Han, I'm sorry to say, are the product of his industry. Mean, callous, dismissive, judgemental, elitist. But worst of all, in denial of what you know is the truth, deep down, and desparately afraid to admit it, because you still think Maharaji is Divine.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 14:37:14 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Rob
Subject: To Rob re:Before you go...
Message:
Rob,

This has got to be the best ever post from you, both in content and expression. Bravo!

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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 20:52:57 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Han
Subject: Another vicious premie
Message:
Han: Yeah, you got the peace, love and understanding that Maharaji supposedly peddles all right. Was he the one who taught you to encourage people to commit suicide? Or is that the way you've always been? Jokes about suicide are not funny to many of us here, especially those who lost friends or family to suicide as a result of their involvement with Maharaji.

I am happy to read Cynthia's post and gladly welcome her back. I DO care if she breathes or not.

If knowledge teaches people to spout the vileness contained in your post, then Cynthia is surely lucky she didn't 'get it'.

Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 00:35:46 (GMT)
From: O
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: No just another fed up premie
Message:
Thats a cheap shot Mariane,although I agree joking about ending it is not cool.I suspect Cynthia won't take Han to heart.
If you are such a caring person why don’t you express any caring for premies when they’re being hatefully treatedby exers?Discriminate caring is just the flip side of discriminate abuse.It’s all discrimination.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 00:42:46 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: O
Subject: Another judgmental premie
Message:
You have not been around long enough, nor have you read enough of my posts, to make such a criticism. What exactly do you know about me, O? I still have premie friends.

Who are you, anyway? How long have you been a premie? Why don't you tell us your real name? I use my full, real name often in my posts.

Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 20:01:09 (GMT)
From: O
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: No just an observation
Message:
I've been reading these pages long enough to notice you've never come to the aid of a premie who has been ruthlessly savaged like you did for Cynthia.That's all.
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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 21:57:24 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Cynthia
Subject: I remember
Message:
Cynthia G,

I remember you. You stopped posting about the same time that G appeared. (I think that's one reason why I associated him as female for awhile).

Don't bother about Han. He presumes to speak for everyone saying that nobody cares about you except you. I wonder where he got that idea?! Normal human loving relationships are always put in a murky, suspicious light by Han's great master of peace. I think Rawat would change that famous line about 'No man is an island' to: 'Every man is an island.'

Anyway, nice to hear from you and best wishes.

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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 18:25:28 (GMT)
From: TwoInchRoach
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Innocents Getting Sucked Into Cults
Message:
Somebody here wrote this about why people get sucked into believing things, seems worth reposting:

'Yes, it's possible that M will write a BS answer and suck people in - but in that case, they were WILLING to be sucked in anyway.'

I keep getting the impression it is the knowledge itself that sucked everyone OUT of the cult. Even if they think they thought up the idea of leaving all by themselves.

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Date: Thurs, Jun 15, 2000 at 23:02:36 (GMT)
From: 8' Dick
Email: None
To: TwoInchRoach
Subject: You seem to like the word sucking ! nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 17:15:12 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Here's one for cq(OT)
Message:
For Want of $35, J.P.
Morgan Loses Its Web Site
and E-Mail

By PATRICK McGEEHAN

. P. Morgan & Company, a bank worth
$21 billion, was disconnected from
the Internet yesterday for failure to
pay a $35 bill.

The venerable Wall Street firm found
itself without a Web site or an e-mail
connection to the outside world because
it had failed to renew the registration
of www.jpmorgan .com, the domain name
that serves as its address on the World
Wide Web. Throughout the day, clients
were unable to visit the Web site or
exchange e-mail messages with the firm's
bankers and traders.

All that frustration could have been
averted if Morgan had sent a check for
$35 for the annual registration fee to
Network Solutions, a domain-name
registrar in Herndon, Va. It pulled the
plug on Morgan six weeks after Morgan's
bill came due and after sending the firm
at least three bills, said Chris Clough,
vice president for corporate
communications at Network Solutions.

A Morgan spokesman confirmed the
disconnection but declined to discuss
how it happened or how it would be
resolved. He said he expected the Web
site to be restored by today.

The 'deactivation' of a corporate Web
site is 'a rare and isolated occurrence'
that can be avoided by paying for a
10-year registration of a domain name,
Mr. Clough said. He said Morgan was
never in jeopardy of losing the domain
name, which it first registered eight
years ago. The deletion of an entry from
the worldwide registry is a step beyond
deactivation, Mr. Clough said.

The most embarrassing deactivation of a
corporate domain name occurred late last
year when Microsoft failed to renew the
registration of a domain name critical
to its Hotmail e-mail service. A
computer consultant in Tennessee bailed
out Microsoft by paying the $35 fee.

'For $35, companies that are investing
millions of dollars in their brands
would do well to maintain their domain
names,' Mr. Clough said.

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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 16:36:59 (GMT)
From: TwoInchRoach
Email: @
To: Everyone
Subject: the enemy
Message:
'When there is no enemy within,
the enemies outside cannot hurt you.'
-African proverb
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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 16:53:13 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: TwoInchRoach
Subject: Who would be your enemy if you only have 1 gram of
Message:
a brain?

What a great way to live!!!

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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 17:38:40 (GMT)
From: TwoInchRoach
Email: ouch@not.alot
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: If I Only Had Two Grams of a Brain
Message:
No offense but you don't seem too bright.
My brain is small, you are right. Not even a gram but it's highly specialized, particularly at distinguishing between darkness and light. Survival instinct, see? Lowly creatures have no use for cults or ex-cult cults, or large heavy brains like your own.
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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 17:47:34 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: TwoInchRoach
Subject: Just don't start singing(nt)
Message:
If I only had a brain.
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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 17:52:43 (GMT)
From: TwoInchRoach
Email: IfIOnlyHadABrain@ExCult.Cult
To: Daneane
Subject: Just don't start singing(nt)
Message:
Thanks Daneane now I can't get the tune out of my little brain. It has jammed everything up.
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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 18:08:54 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: TwoInchRoach
Subject: That's my life.(nt)
Message:
hgf
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Date: Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 17:01:33 (GMT)
From: TwoInchRoach
Email: @@@.@
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Your Gramma
Message:
'Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent.'
-Eleanor Roosevelt
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