Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Fri, Apr 28, 2000 at 11:23:22 (GMT)
From: Apr 10, 2000 To: Apr 25, 2000 Page: 3 Of: 5


Joey -:- Excellent questions in regards to m and his cult -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 18:11:07 (GMT)
__ Fed(up)-Ex -:- Excellent questions in regards to m and his cult -:- Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 17:15:26 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Don't agree: he DOES sell indulgence and pardons -:- Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 18:07:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joey -:- Don't agree: he DOES sell indulgence and pardons -:- Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 21:06:51 (GMT)
__ Hal -:- Superb Joey.. thanks for that one.. N t ) -:- Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 10:15:59 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- not bad Joey -:- Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 05:37:53 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- wonderful! -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 22:38:05 (GMT)
__ dv -:- AP- this could be good for the windshields.nt -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 20:49:44 (GMT)
__ __ A.P. -:- That same thought crossed my mind I printed it (nt -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 21:19:33 (GMT)
__ Jerry -:- Excellent questions in regards to m and his cult -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 19:09:21 (GMT)
__ __ trixie -:- These questions should be regularly threaded here -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 20:44:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Joey -:- Thanks to all.... -:- Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 21:13:34 (GMT)

Jim -:- And when he walks ........... -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 17:09:24 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- So how'd it go? (Has it already happened?) -:- Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 20:23:16 (GMT)
__ __ Banjo Paterson -:- With appologies to... -:- Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 04:54:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mr Paddy Melon -:- With appologies to...Spellcheck? -:- Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 08:11:20 (GMT)

Daneane -:- 'Possibility' -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 06:26:38 (GMT)
__ cq -:- Maharaji has 'no solution to the world problems' -:- Tues, Apr 18, 2000 at 19:01:53 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- The New Knowledge!Gets your mind brighter, whiter! -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 17:16:50 (GMT)
__ __ Brandy -:- The New Knowledge! etc., blah, blah -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 21:16:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Gregg -:- Brandy -:- Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 18:59:30 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Strage 'Possibility' -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 07:29:11 (GMT)
__ __ Daneane -:- Strage 'Possibility' -:- Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 00:21:37 (GMT)
__ __ Trixie -:- Aspirants and Premies Beware! NOT FREE!! -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 12:19:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ cq -:- Free, yet he can afford a private jet. Huh ???(nt) -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 16:50:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mili -:- Aspirants and Premies Beware! NOT FREE!! -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 15:26:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ rotten apple -:- maharahaha -:- Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 11:24:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ shiny apple -:- maharahaha -:- Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 11:35:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- worms -:- Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 16:51:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Hal -:- Ha Ha It's you who's the joke Mili. ...... -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 18:05:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mili -:- Ha Ha It's you who's the joke Mili. ...... -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 19:37:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- and how much has the Maha cost YOU, Mili? (nt) -:- Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 20:34:22 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Read Strange 'Possibility' (nt) -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 07:30:04 (GMT)

JW -:- The Meltdown....... -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 23:38:18 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- The Meltdown....... -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 15:30:28 (GMT)
__ __ JW -:- The Meltdown....(editorial)... -:- Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 16:57:03 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- Hi katie -:- Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 06:25:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Hi Selene -:- Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 14:16:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- Hi Selene -:- Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 20:55:31 (GMT)
__ Charles K. Ponzi -:- Now is the time to buy more! -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 05:58:35 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- The Meltdown....... -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 01:06:05 (GMT)
__ __ dv -:- Actually, the smart index daytraders did quite -:- Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 13:53:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- dv, you must have nerves of steel! -:- Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 14:19:22 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- oh yes I noticed -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 23:44:40 (GMT)
__ __ Stonor -:- Did you notice notice my post a few days ago? -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 00:53:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ bb -:- Did you notice notice my post a few days ago? -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 03:41:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Stonor -:- about 'dartboard' investment (nt) -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 18:45:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- brave investments. -:- Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 16:42:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Boom boom! (ot) -:- Tues, Apr 18, 2000 at 18:36:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Hal Higginbottom to cq -:- Where do you get'em lad? Laf ? ah pissed meself nt -:- Tues, Apr 18, 2000 at 23:05:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- More shocks and stares -:- Wed, Apr 19, 2000 at 19:12:47 (GMT)

Jim -:- Is it just me? FA's, would you please respond? -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 23:22:42 (GMT)
__ Forum Administrator -:- Is it just me? FA's, would you please respond? -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 14:06:11 (GMT)
__ Bjørn -:- Are you the only innocent, Jim? -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 07:19:14 (GMT)
__ __ Forum Administrator -:- Posting under more than one name. -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 14:09:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Bjørn -:- Posting under my real name -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 14:31:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- That's not good enough, you little weasle -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 15:27:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Bjørn -:- Are you asleep, or just pretending, Jim? -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 16:02:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gErRy -:- Hey, Bjorn really is... -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 22:03:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- But did you think of this, Bjorn? -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 16:21:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bjørn -:- In your dreams, Jim.... -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 16:47:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Yes, Bjorn, please use your own name and... -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 15:49:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Bjørn -:- How stupid can you be gerry? -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 16:43:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- But Bjorn, didn't you say -:- Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 00:26:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bjørn -:- But Bjorn, didn't you say -:- Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 09:46:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Then you're in trouble, Bjorn... -:- Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 15:53:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bjørn -:- You are nothing but a liar, gerry -:- Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 18:54:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Pleeease don't sic Jersey lawyers on me , Bim (nt) -:- Tues, Apr 18, 2000 at 15:10:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Bjorn's English has improved somewhat - no? (nt) -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 16:42:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- not conclusive proof of anything, although... -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 17:41:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Bjørn -:- What this proves? -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 20:13:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Right on, Katie baby! -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 17:57:58 (GMT)
__ Røb(moron) -:- One Bjorn every minute -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 05:24:48 (GMT)
__ __ Dave -:- One Bjorn every minute -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 12:24:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ ¶ (moron) -:- One Bjorn every minute -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 20:40:03 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- One Bjorn every minute -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 06:56:02 (GMT)
__ selene -:- bjorn is not the only one. nt -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 23:30:37 (GMT)
__ __ Stonor -:- That's the general problem in many cases (nt) -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 01:22:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ Fessing Up -:- Trix and Zeld = 1 person 2 names. Fact. NT -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 08:42:06 (GMT)

JW -:- Remind you of what being a premie is like? Yuck. -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 21:59:08 (GMT)
__ Angry -:- Question for Nick. -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 09:47:19 (GMT)
__ __ Angry -:- Question for Nick.( not Nick Danger) nt -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 09:52:21 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Come on, Joe. He sounds like he's doing just fine -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 23:07:38 (GMT)
__ __ JW -:- Come on, Jim Maybe Not -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 23:22:18 (GMT)

Way -:- Letter to Instructors -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 15:38:57 (GMT)
__ A.P. -:- Letter to Instructors -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 20:11:58 (GMT)
__ __ dv -:- Whens the Miami program?nt -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 23:13:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ vd -:- Whens the Miami program?nt -:- Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 11:49:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ Røb (moron) -:- Not prog, K review, invite only (nt) -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 05:08:16 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- re:windshields -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 20:37:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ Way -:- Rough draft of letter -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 20:56:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hmmmm...... -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 22:58:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Trixie -:- Hmmmm......about Michael -:- Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 09:33:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Susan -:- letter -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 16:26:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- To Susan and Jim re letter -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 18:33:09 (GMT)
__ JW -:- I agree -- excellent idea (nt) -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 17:45:06 (GMT)
__ Jim -:- Good idea -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 15:57:57 (GMT)
__ __ Coach -:- Good idea -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 21:07:18 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- To Susan, please read this -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 17:56:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ Marianne -:- Thanks for taking the initiative -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 10:27:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Trixie -:- Watching with interest -:- Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 09:49:26 (GMT)

A.P. -:- First class -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 12:27:08 (GMT)
__ EV-ex -:- What is FC or First Class? -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 13:21:44 (GMT)
__ __ G -:- FirstClass -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 16:59:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ Røb (moron) -:- FirstClass -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 04:42:02 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Does anyone have the password? -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 15:20:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Each user has his own! -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 16:25:45 (GMT)
__ __ A.P. -:- Thanks now I know (nt) -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 15:16:28 (GMT)

Dave -:- Spam from another forum God -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 09:15:27 (GMT)
__ Roswell -:- Most Excellent.... -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 14:16:53 (GMT)
__ __ Dave -:- Pardon? -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 16:06:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Roswell -:- Pardon? -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 16:34:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Dave -:- Now I understand -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 18:11:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Roswell -:- Now I understand -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 18:41:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Pardon? -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 17:20:15 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Most Excellent.... -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 14:43:13 (GMT)

Runamok -:- French/Spanish Forums -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 06:47:53 (GMT)
__ Brian -:- French/Spanish Forums -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 09:02:59 (GMT)
__ __ Runamok -:- thanks Brian nt -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 17:45:49 (GMT)

Jethro -:- What does an instructor instruct? -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 05:51:37 (GMT)
__ Coach -:- Yep -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 20:55:22 (GMT)
__ __ Nudist Colony -:- Instructor's New Clothes -:- Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 05:19:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ Coach -:- Buff Cove -:- Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 17:14:46 (GMT)
__ __ cq -:- Yep -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 15:31:25 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- What does an instructor instruct? -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 06:16:19 (GMT)
__ __ Jethro -:- What does an instructor instruct? -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 06:26:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- OK, let's try not being mystic -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 08:02:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- I need a review -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 11:15:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- The actual truth about instructors -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 13:18:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- The big deceit for instructors ! -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 08:31:01 (GMT)

Trixie -:- Has the forum ever compiled a questionairre for Pr -:- Thurs, Apr 13, 2000 at 23:20:09 (GMT)
__ Katie -:- 'Questioning Devotion' -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 17:14:53 (GMT)
__ Runamok -:- try these out -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 06:03:35 (GMT)
__ __ Trixie -:- Katie and Run -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 06:50:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ Katie -:- Trixie, thanks -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 15:43:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ trixie -:- thanks -:- Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 02:08:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ Runamok -:- Katie and Run -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 10:10:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Trixie -:- Katie and Run -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 11:45:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Katie -:- Geocities -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 15:46:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- You could post more questions -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 15:27:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ trixie -:- You could post more questions -:- Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 20:36:22 (GMT)
__ Powerman -:- Has the forum ever compiled a questionairre for Pr -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 01:39:05 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Now who's the asshole? (nt) -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 15:23:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ Powerman -:- The punishment fits the crime (nt) -:- Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 21:17:28 (GMT)


Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 18:11:07 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Excellent questions in regards to m and his cult
Message:
...well any destructive cult, really, but IMO, alot of these questions can be realistically applied to m by any newcomer, or by any aspirant, and even premies who are serious about taking an honest look at what his cult is REALLY all about.

Snatched from Steve Hassan's site:

**********************************


Questions to help the assessment process

Who is the leader?

What are his/her background and qualifications?

Have you relied solely on trust that all of the information you were given is true or have you done independent investigation?

Do you feel pressure to accept and not question at all?

Is it possible that there are misrepresentations or falsehoods?

Is there external corroboration for extraordinary claims of accomplishment or are they simply his/her say-so?

If 'miracles' have been performed, can they be replicated under open observation or even under scientific conditions?

Are there other explanations for the 'miracles,' such as magic tricks, hypnosis, etc.?

If there is a former leader or member, have you sought him or her out to hear for yourself critical information? If not, are you afraid to trust your ability to discern the truthfulness of what you learn?

If you find yourself saying that you don’t care if there are major deceptions, ask yourself if you knew this information before you became involved, would you have even bothered to make a commitment of time and money?


Are there exclusive claims made to wisdom, knowledge, love, and truth? If so, the burden of proof is on the leader to demonstrate his or her superiority, not on members to disprove it. A truly 'developed' spiritual being exudes love, compassion, and humility. Any person who claims to be 'superior' but does not practice what they preach is of questionable character. There is never incongruency between words and deeds. A person who uses fear and phobia indoctrination to control followers demonstrates insecurity and lack of spiritual maturity.


Is total submission and obedience required? Any relationship that demands giving up one’s personal integrity and conscience is dangerous and leads to totalitarianism. Be wary of those who advocate 'the ends justify the means,' especially when it clearly serves their own self-interest. Also, make sure that your desire 'to believe' doesn’t simply activate the common psychological defense mechanisms: denial, rationalization, justification, and wishful thinking. If a doctrine is true or a person is truly spiritually advanced, they will stand up to the scrutiny of objective evaluation. If they do not prove themselves, they are probably not worthy of your commitment and devotion.


Does he/ she have a criminal record, a legacy of allegations against him/her or a history of misconduct? If there are allegations of misconduct against the leader, the responsible follower must seek out the negative information and the sources of that information to evaluate the truth. If a leader claims to be celibate and allegations are made that the leader engaged in inappropriate sex, this is an extreme violation of integrity. It must be investigated vigorously. It is never appropriate for teachers, therapists, or spiritual masters to take advantage of a power differential over followers. This is especially true in the area of sexuality. It is grossly unethical to engage in sexual relations with someone who has placed their trust in as a teacher/advisor/master. Many followers are incredibly vulnerable to this and unable to resist sexual intimacy. Anyone should be able to say 'no.'

Is he or she a 'trust bandit,' stealing hearts, souls, minds, bodies, and pocketbooks for his or her own ends?


Does the leader demonstrate psychological problems and awareness of their existence?

Does the leader have addictions to power, drugs, alcohol, sex, even television or shopping?

Does the leader have emotional outbursts?

Does the leader physically abuse followers?

Does the leader drive expensive cars and wear expensive clothes while extolling the virtues of renunciation?

Does the leader financially exploit followers by expecting them to live in poverty while he or she indulges in luxury?

Is the group or leader’s driveway habitually filled with luxury cars while ordinary people find him or her inaccessible and unreachable?

Does the leader ever encourage deception or use deception as a 'technique' to trick followers into so-called correct thinking and understanding?

Codependent behavior by a spiritual teacher should be a warning sign of danger. Codependency includes: obsessively trying to control others; allowing people to hurt and use them; lack of clear boundaries; being reactive, not proactive; tunnel visioned; obsessive worrying and denial; expectations of perfection and suppression of human needs. (Beattie, Beyond Codependency, Harper/Hazelden, 1989)


Are questions and doubts permitted within the organization?
A healthy spiritual environment must engage individual followers at
their level of experience and should encourage them to feel and think and therefore question their beliefs and exercise good decision-making. In this way, the follower can investigate, discriminate, and test the dogma and the environment they are being asked to accept, between what his or her personal issues are and what might be an unhealthy environment. If intense pressure is used to dissuade people who wish to talk with former members or critics, it is a clear sign of information control. Controlling information is one of the most essential components of mind control.


Is the organization open or closed?

Are there organizational secrets?

Are there 'in' groups and 'out' groups?

Are there restricted teachings for initiates only?

Are there secret texts and publications 'for your eyes only'?

Is there real financial accountability?

If a group says that you can look at its accounting records, does it actually provide access?

The only way to know is to ask to see the records. If you are afraid to ask, what does this say about the atmosphere of the group?


What structural checks and balances exist within the organization to prevent abuse of power?

Are there divisive sectarian biases, even in the name of interdenominational ecumenicism and universality?

Is there an independent 'ethics'committee to challenge and change policies of the group?

If there are abuses or injustices, what structure exists to correct them?

Can anyone legitimately question the actions of the leader without threat of emotional withdraw or fear of expulsion to 'hell'?

Do the rich and powerful get preferential treatment?

Are 'indulgences' (spiritual pardons) sold?

Is there a 'Sicilian' code of silence against unethical behavior of leaders?


Copyright ©1999, Steve Hassan Freedom of Mind

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Date: Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 17:15:26 (GMT)
From: Fed(up)-Ex
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Excellent questions in regards to m and his cult
Message:
Very interesting post, very interesting indeed...
as a recent ex, I took the test, and found only one statement tht maharaji might pass-Does he sell indulgences, or spiritual pardons?To my knowledge, he doesn't, although you might say he sells access to himself, through large contributions that get people first row seats...
Otherwise, he and the organization failed every single question...
Good post, I recommend it be included with the open letter that is being worked on to premies and aspirants...
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Date: Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 18:07:41 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Fed(up)-Ex
Subject: Don't agree: he DOES sell indulgence and pardons
Message:
What about His darshan?

Haven't you been familiar with the feeling that when you get the chance to be at a program with him, and preferably through darshan, all your sins will be washed away?

He even states it, let me find the quotes. Something like one darshan and one year (or one life) of sins being washed away .....

If you don't forget the enveloppe! That's not mentioned, but it's a given.


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Date: Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 21:06:51 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Don't agree: he DOES sell indulgence and pardons
Message:
Exactly JM.

I'd also mention the recent development of the seminars where a select, elite group of premies get to spend a week with m, who's now being marketed as the 'Speaker', in an 'intimate' environment of course....all made possible for a registration fee (or 'contribution', whatever) of $5,000(US).
The objective of the seminar: to help make the premies more in tune or synchronized with the 'work' of the Speaker.

Now if that isn't a classic textbook case of the cult selling indulgences ...then I don't know what is.

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Date: Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 10:15:59 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Superb Joey.. thanks for that one.. N t )
Message:
sdf
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Date: Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 05:37:53 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: not bad Joey
Message:
selene
aware of what she is going through and proud of the company she keeps.
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 22:38:05 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: wonderful!
Message:
Joey thanks so much for posting that. I think it shows so well that our former cult is just another cult, very much like all the others. Great information!
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 20:49:44 (GMT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Hey AP
Subject: AP- this could be good for the windshields.nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 21:19:33 (GMT)
From: A.P.
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: That same thought crossed my mind I printed it (nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 19:09:21 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Excellent questions in regards to m and his cult
Message:
Good list of things to think about, Joey. I especially like this one:

Does the leader drive expensive cars and wear expensive clothes while extolling the virtues of renunciation?

It's funny how this one seems to go over cult members's heads in virtually every cult. The justification of a cult leader's excesses has got to be the one most obvious and outlandish factor in what being a member of a cult is all about.

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 20:44:01 (GMT)
From: trixie
Email: None
To: Jerry and Joey
Subject: These questions should be regularly threaded here
Message:
IMHO
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Date: Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 21:13:34 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Thanks to all....
Message:
...who enjoyed the post and found it relevant and applicable to m and his cult.

(Just goes to show ya...if you stick around long enough, you might finally do something right :)

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 17:09:24 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: And when he walks ...........
Message:
From ELK:

Surprise Amaroo Event

This information was just published on an Elan Vital electronic bulletin board at 8pm, Friday, 14 April

'Maharaji has accepted an invitation to speak at an outdoor event for people with Knowledge and people preparing for Knowledge at Ivory's Rock Conference Centre (Amaroo) on Sunday, 16 April at 4pm. This is not an introductory event.'

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Date: Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 20:23:16 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: So how'd it go? (Has it already happened?)
Message:
Confused by the time zones, I'm wondering if this 'surprise event' has already happened. Anybody know? What'd the Successful Private Investor of the Universe say?
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Date: Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 04:54:07 (GMT)
From: Banjo Paterson
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: With appologies to...
Message:
The Man From Malibu

There was movement all 'round Australia
For the word had passed around
That Maharaji was to appear at Amaroo
It caused quite a deal of fluster
Amongst premies near and far
As they quickly schemed and scammed to be there too.

They made it to the venue, with all their cash in hand
To cover registration and, of course, a gift
Past the stern, unfriendly security honchos
They finally found their seats
With Health and Safety keeping them from harm
And Maharaji musak boring them to tears

On he came at 4pm, yes he's punctual these days
And spoke his usual inane spiel with feeble jokes
Living this life, gratitude and give money (just a little will do)
Brothers and sisters lapped it up (why do they still?)
Soon it was all over, 'Wow wasn't that just beautiful!'
As they meandered down the path to find their cars.

Well of course I wasn't there but it's probably quite close
To what occurred unless of course it rained
But you can bet your bottom dollar that he did it just for the bucks
As he has no love for all those premies, unless their rich
Me, I intend to stay away from this speaker/guru now
Which makes me as happy as I've been in twenty years.

SO WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT FAT MAN?

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Date: Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 08:11:20 (GMT)
From: Mr Paddy Melon
Email: None
To: Banjo Paterson
Subject: With appologies to...Spellcheck?
Message:
I'm glad you appoligised to Banjo. And yes , it's pretty easy to see you weren't there.
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 06:26:38 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 'Possibility'
Message:
This is from a video box with pamphlet given to me called, 'Possibility: an introduction to Maharaji and Knowledge' from 1999. I thought you might want a peak at the new school.

F.A.Q. 's

1. What is it Maharaji offers?

'What I offer is a way to be able to go within and savor the beauty that is within you. I do not create the beauty. It is not a mental thing. It is not an imagination. It does not come from a book. It does not come from ideas. It is something already within you.'
(Copenhagen, Denmark, 1994)

'It is simple because it is already within you. It is profound because it defies every explanation. it is something that cannot be written about; it can only be felt. And you have the capacity to feel it.'
(Seattle, Washington, USA 1994)

'I have no solution to the world problems. I have nothing new to tell you. Instead, I offer you one of the things that you have known for the longest time. That which you are looking for, and have looked for, and love, and admire is within you. And I offer a way to be able to reach that.'
(Wembley, UK 1997)

2. What is Knowledge?

'This is the Knowledge of the self. Through this, you will learn, you will discover, and you will get in touch with what is within you.'
(Contonou, Benin 1998)

'Knowledge, in the simplest terms, is a means to feel a feeling that is within the hearts of all human beings.'
(Curacao, Netherlands Antilles 1998)

3. What is so different about Knowledge?

'Knowledge is very different because here, it is not a deficiency that is pointed out. It is, in fact, what you have within you that is pointed out. That you are complete. That within you is the joy of all joys.'
(Contonou, Benin 1998)

'When you can find out what is within you, something shifts. And that's the difference. There can be that simple enjoyment in you. Why? Because the thirst for that enjoyment is also within you.'
(Phoenix, Arizona, USA 1994)

4. Will Knowledge solve my problems?

'Knowledge cannot help your problems. You have to work with your problems and deal with them. They are going to come and they are going to go. But Knowledge is something very specific. Knowledge allows you to have an experience of what is already inside of you. No more and no less. It will not make any changes in your life. You have to so that.'
(Versailles, France 1992)

5. Is Knowledge a religion?

'Knowledge is not spiritual, nor is it a religion. Knowledge belongs in neither of those two catagories. Knowledge says there is a consciousness inside of you, that you are complete.'
(Curacao, Netherlands Antilles 1998)

6. Is there any cost for Knowledge?

'Knowledge is free. It is free because the feeling is already inside of you. I am not creatiing it. I am not manafacturing it. What you have, you already own.'
(New York, USA 1994)

'There is no charge for Knowledge because it is priceless. It would cost too much. It is a gift from one heart to another heart.'
(Hong Kong, 1995)

7. If this experience is already within me, then why don't I know it?

'Our eyes are capable of seeing everything except themselves. To see your own eyes, you need a mirror. Knowledge enables you to look and see your true self, to look and see what is within you. This is not from a book. This is not someone's philosophy. This is for you to appreciate, for you to enjoy.'
(Rome, Italy 1994)

8. Is everyone who receives Knowledge happy with it?

Not everyone who receives Knowledge is satisfied with what they have received. Sometimes a person's own expectations may be different than what Knowledge actually offers. For instance, someone thinking that Knowledge may take away a physical ailment would become disillusioned very quickly. Maharaji asks that those who want Knowledge take the time to learn about what is being offered and the kind of personal effort that is needed, by listening to what he has to say. This preparation greatly improves an individual's chances to enjoy Knowledge. Nonetheless, Maharaji often makes it known in his talks that, 'If you like it fine, if you don't like it - fine.' The practice of knowledge has always been a matter of personal choice and interest.

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Date: Tues, Apr 18, 2000 at 19:01:53 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: Maharaji has 'no solution to the world problems'
Message:
So now he's saying he has 'no solution to the world problems.'

I wish he had said so before I wasted all that time and energy.

In my day, his spiel included the infamous lie:

'I swear on the Bible I will establish peace in the world'.

Click here for photographic evidence (thanks to JM)

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 17:16:50 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: The New Knowledge!Gets your mind brighter, whiter!
Message:
This is some really boring shit. I can't believe anyone would find this Teacher's words remotely inspiring. He says nothing!

Bland, boring, insipid, vapid and stupid.

Could you imagine being on a spiritual search, and, with all those clever and colorful gurus out there, finding these humdrum evasions of Guru Maharaji the most exciting and promising?

I don't get it.

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 21:16:01 (GMT)
From: Brandy
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: The New Knowledge! etc., blah, blah
Message:
'I don't get it'

I applaud your honesty. You're right.

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Date: Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 18:59:30 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Brandy
Subject: Brandy
Message:
Then perhaps you could explain it to me, Brandy? I know we have differing opinions on Maharaj Ji's appeal. Do you not think that his words are rather vague and less than helpful in describing Knowledge? I know this Knowledge is supposed to be beyond words and all that (I used to be a believer, you know), but other gurus and teachers make a stab at it. They try to use words to limn the glories beyond, etc.

I understand Maharaj Ji's appeal to believers, and am not going to call you an asshole because you still believe and I don't. But what do Maharaj Ji's vague promises do for spiritual seekers?

I remain yours, not getting it,

Gregg

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 07:29:11 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Daneane
Subject: Strage 'Possibility'
Message:
Thanks for posting this.

I haven't read that sort of thing for so long .... I thought I was missing it:-)))))

Seriously: what struck me is this quote thing! Why print 'm says this on such and such date, m said that, and he said this, and he said that .....' Looks so wierd to me now.

Can't he write something decent? What did he say so special beside what's being quoted? Always the same thing? HE said this, and HE said that ..... funny way of introducing a so-called 'teaching'.

He's merely introducing Himself. Listen more, watch more videos, and understand what's so special and can't be written!

I guess it's so obvious for any normal person reading or watching that sort of stuff. These premies can't even see this ..... poor guys.

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Date: Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 00:21:37 (GMT)
From: Daneane
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Strage 'Possibility'
Message:
I never did get that 'living master' added bonus deal. As if just because he was alive he was so much more valuable than written works. If I read the thoughts of someone, it seems no different than hearing and seeing his on a bunch of tapes. It seems to be both are equally distant and static and still only of value when I take them in, think about them, and incorporate them into my thoughts.

I never really got the 'Master' thing either. When I saw that video, 'The Beggar', I thought it was weird that he would talk about being above all his followers. It seemed to certain and arrogant...I'd always thought the truly wise, will never claim it. The influence of the Tao in my soul I guess.

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 12:19:12 (GMT)
From: Trixie
Email: None
To: Premies and Aspirants
Subject: Aspirants and Premies Beware! NOT FREE!!
Message:
Take care and watch the cult very closely. Maraji plays a mind game with the phrase 'its free'
It is definitely not free.

He WANTS you to think that to yourself to mask the cost.
He wants you to be a simpleton and think to yourself that- because you are not told to go out a buy anything in order to practice the techniques it must be free.

Maraji doesnt tell you that it will cost you dearly AFTER you recieve knowledge.

That is when you are hooked in by guilt and coersion to 'keep in touch' Listen for this phrase or one like it in the videos and programs.

Understand that it is going to cost you your FREEDOM.
Understand that you will be leached dry until you have given your life away.

Maragy is selling a complete package. There are no substitutions allowed. You take knowledge from him and you surrender the reins of you life to his will. Or wallet depending on how you look at it.

Sounds great if you are a Hindi in need of a Guru- but not if you really do want to take the knowledge techniques and walk away with them.

That cannot happen because you are programmed to stay 'IN TOUCH'.
Again this is another mind game.

Maragy want you to again think like a simpleton.
He wants you to think ' IN TOUCH' is simple. It is not

'IN Touch' is Code for gratitude and obligations that will be expected of you.
He has given you access to That place inside so everything on the outside- including your life and personal developement are his.

This is a fact. So if you are under the impression that the knowledge techiques are somehow free to take away and continue living your life with the added benefits of the meditation-
You are in the wrong place and you need to go somewhere else to get them.

Judge for yourselves.
Look at how he goes into underdeveloped coutries and mesmerizes the crowds. Is this bringing world peace or is this mass hypnosis.?

Good luck
Our thoughts are with you.

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 16:50:39 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Trixie
Subject: Free, yet he can afford a private jet. Huh ???(nt)
Message:
Free, yet he can afford a private jet. Huh ???(nt)
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 15:26:34 (GMT)
From: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: Trixie
Subject: Aspirants and Premies Beware! NOT FREE!!
Message:
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

Thanks for the laugh.

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Date: Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 11:24:31 (GMT)
From: rotten apple
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: maharahaha
Message:
roflmao
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Date: Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 11:35:53 (GMT)
From: shiny apple
Email: None
To: rotten apple
Subject: maharahaha
Message:
may I suggest, get rid of the worms.

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Date: Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 16:51:37 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: shiny apple
Subject: worms
Message:
You know what's worse than finding a worm in an apple?

Finding half a worm in one !

Hal the zen joker..

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 18:05:36 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: Ha Ha It's you who's the joke Mili. ......
Message:
Sorry I don't get what there is to laugh about? Sounds like the derisive laughter of a brainwashed idiot who can't think or express a serious opinion.
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 19:37:11 (GMT)
From: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: Hal
Subject: Ha Ha It's you who's the joke Mili. ......
Message:
Look, to make it easier I'll spell it out for you - in my opinion, 'Trixie''s post is so totally absurd and inane it made me laugh out loud when I read it. Get it?

Don't be such a sourpuss, now.

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Date: Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 20:34:22 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Mili
Subject: and how much has the Maha cost YOU, Mili? (nt)
Message:
and how much has the Maha cost YOU, Mili? (nt)
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 07:30:04 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Read Strange 'Possibility' (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 23:38:18 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The Meltdown.......
Message:
Has anyone noticed what happened to the Stock Market today? I'm afraid to walk down Montgomery Street on the way home for fear that bodies will land on me from the windows of brokerage firms above.......

Who needs a retirement anyway??

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 15:30:28 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: The Meltdown.......
Message:
Hi JW -
My two cents:
It really bugs me when the news media reports the drop in terms of points rather than percentages. The drop yesterday was 5.64% - compare this to Black Friday in 1987, where the drop was 22.60%! I guess it makes a better story to say the stock market dropped 600+ points than to say it dropped almost 6%, but I still think it is exaggerating things unnecessarily.

I think the market is overvalued, especially tech stocks, and that there needs to be some corrections (and, by the way, there HAVE been some corrections all along, as I'm sure you know). I also think that a lot of stock analysts want to be the first to report any major correction, or a possible crash - I've been reading these predictions for at least three years. Thus the tremendous amount of media attention paid to any substantial drop in the stock market.

One more thing - a lot of the people investing in stocks today have NEVER been in a bear market, and I think some of them regard investing in the stock market as something akin to buying a CD with high interest rates - which of course it is not.

I know you know all of this, Joe, but thanks for the chance to express some of my pet peeves!

Take care -
Love,
Katie

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Date: Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 16:57:03 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: The Meltdown....(editorial)...
Message:
Yes, the market is overvalued, but in some sense I think a big crash might not be a bad thing. The markets have become more gambling than anything productive. I mean it's a waste of productive talent, the huge resources put into what is essentially a ponzi scheme. Personally, I think if those efforts were put into something productive, like producing things people can actually use, or making efforts to otherwise improve peoples' lives or the environment, instead of just moving money around, we would be better off.
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Date: Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 06:25:33 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Hi katie
Message:
That's what I have been learning these last few days. Thanks. Friday did make me pay a little more attention. Which is good. Though I came to the same conclusion which is not to look at my statements again for another 6 months. It IS funny isn't it, that we were all hippies and premies and here we are, checking to see what % our mutual funds and TSA's or whatever dropped or didn't?

ps sorry for yet another cryptic post above. can't get that writer out of me. I should start writing.

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Date: Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 14:16:30 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Hi Selene
Message:
Hi Selene -
You wrote:
That's what I have been learning these last few days. Thanks. Friday did make me pay a little more attention. Which is good. Though I came to the same conclusion which is not to look at my statements again for another 6 months. It IS funny isn't it, that we were all hippies and premies and here we are, checking to see what % our mutual funds and TSA's or whatever dropped or didn't?

I agree that it is funny. I used to think that the world as we know it was going to come to an end so I didn't have to worry about that stuff. Then I thought Maharaji was going to take care of everyone (ha ha). Then I thought my husband and kids would take care of me (double ha ha - no husband and no kids!) I still know a lot of people my age who don't worry about retirement, but I sure do. I don't want to live on some supposed Social Security that may never materialize, and I sure don't want to have to work until I'm 85 or whatever.

Not checking your statements, or at least not looking at the newpaper every day to check prices, is a good idea, because there is really not much you can do about it, unless you want to switch your investments around - for example, if you're into something high risk (I mean high risk INVESTMENTS :)!) I usually only look at my quarterly statements. But I'm also a very conservative investor who doesn't buy individual stocks, so that works for me.

And you SHOULD start writing! Although I hate to use the 'S' word. I should too. I have had some great ideas lately. BTW, I started reading 'Almanac of the Dead' again, and it is just as good as I remembered.

Take care -
Love from Katie

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Date: Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 20:55:31 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Hi Selene
Message:
I mean high risk INVESTMENTS :)!)
ah the Katie I know and love. Who knows me too well.

Almanac of the Dead is the REAL tourists guide to Tucson.
Silkos is a hell of a writer.
I sent you an email you need to read.
Love, Selene

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 05:58:35 (GMT)
From: Charles K. Ponzi
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Now is the time to buy more!
Message:
See my webpage for fantastic information on how you, the ordinary shmoe, can make money in the stock market without knowing one damn thing about it other than the fact that your friends and neighbors are all making money hand over fist.

Yes, you too, can and should become fabulously wealthy and never have to work again all from your knowledgable investments in the stock market. There is absolutely no downside to it at all. In fact, there's never been a better time than now to buy. Everyone is a winner. Everyone will make excessive risk-free profits day after day, year after year. The only requirement is your unrelentless faith in believing that the bull market can go on forever and that it isn't necessary for companies to ever make a profit or even have products to sell.

Oh yeah, baby!

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 01:06:05 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: The Meltdown.......
Message:
I never thought as a hippie or as an ashram premie that I would be concerned about the stock market...but I inherited some stock from (the proverbial) rich uncle last year...and I speculated in the stock market...doubling my money now and then, losing now and then...but now, I am forced to be philosophical about it, I guess. If my forty thou turns into twenty thou, well, what the fuck! I'm sure others are panicked, day traders, for example. But... I have a job!
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Date: Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 13:53:19 (GMT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Actually, the smart index daytraders did quite
Message:
well! One guy I know made 181 points on S&P on Tuesday. I can just imagine what he did the rest of the week. I papertraded Tuesday for 3 hours and made (on paper), $1500 after commisions. Once I beef up my account enough, I'll start with the e-mini s&p. I'm just sorry I missed last weeks volatility ride, tho there's surely more to come.
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Date: Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 14:19:22 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: dv, you must have nerves of steel!
Message:
No way I could do that kind of thing!

By the way, hope you are doing well (not just in the market, I mean)-
Love,
Katie

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 23:44:40 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: oh yes I noticed
Message:
I am not looking again for 3 months. I keep telling myself
it's better than the slot machines selene.... over and over
my new mantra
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 00:53:15 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: JW and Selene
Subject: Did you notice notice my post a few days ago?
Message:
About 'dartboard investment?'
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 03:41:23 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Did you notice notice my post a few days ago?
Message:
There was a couple hundred billion on margin debt at one point so any decline would have to be like this. Margin calls and puts and calls....people are making BIG money today. Just not the average joe. 'historic' means nothing.
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 18:45:45 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: about 'dartboard' investment (nt)
Message:
about 'dartboard' investment (nt)
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Date: Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 16:42:49 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: brave investments.
Message:
Do you know who the most foolhardy investor of all time was?

Noah...... He floated his stocks when the whole world was in liquidation !

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Date: Tues, Apr 18, 2000 at 18:36:34 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Boom boom! (ot)
Message:
Which reminds me of the old Stanley Holloway rendition of 'Three Ha-pence a Foot'.


(best Yorkshire accent for this one, mind)


THREE HA'PENCE A FOOT

I'll tell you an old-fashioned story
That grandfather used to relate,
Of a builder and joining contractor
Who's name it were Sam Oswaldthwaite.

In a shop on the banks of the Irwell
There Sam used to follow his trade,
In a place you'll have heard of called Bury
You know, where black puddings is made.

One day Sam were filling a knot hole
With putty when in through the door,
Came an old man fair reeked i'whiskers
An th'old man said good morning I'm Noah.

Sam asked Noah what were his business
And t'old chap went on to remark,
That not liking the look of the weather
He was thinking of building an ark.

He'd got all the wood for the bulwarks
And all t'other shipbuilding junk,
Now he wanted some nice birds-eye maple
To panel the sides of his bunk.

Now maple were Sams monopoly
That means it were all his to cut,
And nobody else hadn't got none
So he asked Noah three ha'pence a foot.

A ha'penny too much replied Noah
Penny a foots more the mark,
A penny a foot and when rain comes
I'll give you a ride in my ark.

But neither would budge in the bargain
The whole thing were kind of a jam,
So Sam put his tongue out at Noah
And Noah made long bacon at Sam.

In wrath and ill-feeling they parted
Not knowing when they'd meet again,
And Sam 'ad forgot all about it
'Til one day it started to rain.

It rained and it rained for a fortnight
It flooded the whole countryside,
It rained and it still kept on raining
'Til th'Irwell were fifty miles wide.

The houses were soon under water
And folks to the roof had to climb,
They said t'was the rottenest summer
As Bury had had for some time.

The rain showed no sign of abating
And water rose hour by hour,
'Til th'only dry land were at Blackpool
and that were on top of the tower.

So Sam started swimming for Blackpool
It took him best part of a week,
His clothes were wet through when he got there
And his boots were beginning to leak.

He stood to his watch-chain in water
On tower-top just before dark,
When who should come sailing towards him
But old Noah steering his ark.

They stared at each other in silence
'Til ark were alongside all but,
Then Noah said what price yon maple
Sam answered three ha'pence a foot.

Noah said nay I'll make thee an offer
Same as I did t'other day,
A penny a foot and a free ride
Now come on lad what do thee say.

Three ha'pence a foot came the answer
So Noah his sail had to hoist,
And sail off again in a dudgeon
While Sam stood determined but moist.

So Noah cruised around flying his pigeons
'Til fortieth day of the wet,
And on his way home passing Blackpool
He saw old Sam standing there yet.

His chin just stuck out of the water
A comical figure he cut,
Noah said now whats the price of yon maple
And Sam answered three ha'pence a foot.

Said Noah you'd best take my offer
It's the last time I'll be hereabouts,
And if water comes half an inch higher
I'll happen get maple for nowt.

Three ha'pence a foot it'll cost you
And as for me Sam says don't fret,
'Skys took a turn since this morning
I think it'll brighten up yet!

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Date: Tues, Apr 18, 2000 at 23:05:46 (GMT)
From: Hal Higginbottom to cq
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: Where do you get'em lad? Laf ? ah pissed meself nt
Message:
hg
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Date: Wed, Apr 19, 2000 at 19:12:47 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Hal Higginbottom to cq
Subject: More shocks and stares
Message:
Tokyo April 16 (Bloomberg) -

After the infamous Origami Bank
folded yesterday, it has emerged that
Origami's parent company
Sumo Bank has gone belly up,
and that
Bonsai Bank is planning to cut back its branches.

This comes after Monday's nosedive in
Kamikazi Bank's share price, and the price of
Khazi Bank's stock went down the pan.

Rumors have continued about
Tenko Bank after the staff was locked in last night, and officials have confirmed that staff at
Karate Bank has got the chop.

At Sushi bank things are looking a bit fishy and staff are expected to get a raw deal.

However, none of the above are expected to do as badly as the staff at
Geisha Bank.

Apparently, they all got fucked.

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 23:22:42 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Is it just me? FA's, would you please respond?
Message:
In a thread below Bjorn flatly admits that he posts here under different names, not as jokes but to trick people into thinking that he actually is all these various people. Now, I thought that this forum had two simple rules: no threats and none of that shit.

I note that the FA's are more than willing to jump in to delete the posts with instructors' phone numbers, yet when I asked about this Bjorn thing, nothing. Silence.

Yes, yes, we all know that the FA's are proud of their 'non-interventionist' style. That's fine. But they are still the FA's and sometimes that means doing a little A'ing of the F. This has to be one of those times. Either Bjorn's crossed the line and should be dealt with accordingly or he hasn't, in which case that rule, or guideline, or whatever you want to call it is a figment of my imagination.

Could we please get some clarification on this?

Thanks.

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 14:06:11 (GMT)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Is it just me? FA's, would you please respond?
Message:
Jim,

When I'm the duty admin' I don't by any means get to read all the posts and all the threads. So it's difficult to spot if someone is using more than one name.

Thank you for pointing this out. I'll write to Bjorn about it.

Duty Forum Admin'.

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 07:19:14 (GMT)
From: Bjørn
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Are you the only innocent, Jim?
Message:
Jim wrote:'...is posting under several names contrary to one of the only 'rules': thou shalt not post under different names.'
I replied to Jim
'
If you are not really blind or unable to read and understand, I would say that simple observations make it clear that most of those who post here, post under different alias.(f. inst. trixie - Zelda) If everyone who post under a fake name should be blocked, about half of the people who post here should be blocked. One thing is for sure, at least I do not try to pretend to be somebody I am not. Some people even pretend to be Maharaji or his kids, but I assume that you think that is OK.
At least I confess my 'sins'.

Another thing that is pretty clear is that you and a lot of people and the Forum are breaking the laws of the society. But you think that is OK too?

You should also be aware of that when you are a premie, you are regarded as an enemy and because of the 'lie' concepts expremies have placed upon my person, it is absolutely impossible to have a fruitful discussion. The way I see it if I want to post here at all, I have to take different names. What surprises me is that expremies are so slow to spot who I am. Are you sleeping or what? Even I can spot some of those who post under false names, because I recognise their way of thinking and expressing themselves.'

So FA, go ahead and block me if you want. I dont care. But in my opinion sudh an act would put yourself in an awkward situation.

By the way, I have nothing to do with Catweasel nor Rob.

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 14:09:16 (GMT)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: None
To: Bjørn
Subject: Posting under more than one name.
Message:
Bjorn,

It's our policy here to use one name when posting. Obviously there are occasional exceptions, but generally we like to stick to this rule. It saves lots of confusion for people who may want to communicate with you, so we'd ask you to respect this when you post here.

Forum Administrator

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 14:31:18 (GMT)
From: Bjørn
Email: None
To: Forum Administrator
Subject: Posting under my real name
Message:
If I will post here again, I will accept to only post under my real name as long as I am not met with lies about my person.
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 15:27:31 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bjørn
Subject: That's not good enough, you little weasle
Message:
Pretty big loophole you're guarding there, Bjorn. If there was an exception for people who think that there are 'lies about their person' being uttered here, the rule would be useless. I trust that the post from our gentle FA counts as some sort of warning. So you've been warned, Bjorn. You get caught at that game again and, believe me, I won't let it drop. I promise and you can trust me on this one.
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 16:02:46 (GMT)
From: Bjørn
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Are you asleep, or just pretending, Jim?
Message:
First of all, I dont think the Forum could or would block me. For me it is no problem to use my mac or one of my PCs, or even go to a internet cafe for posting if I wanted to.
Secondly, are you so naive to believe that when you have not been able to spot any of my aliases before, you should suddenly be able to do so now? But dont you think the message in a post is more important the the person who posts it?
I think if I wanted to, I would be able to send all my posts with spell control, and that would hide my spelling problems.
But Jim, by the way, everybody here are actually guests, by the grace of FA, but is it your opinion that only expremies should be allowed to write here. Wouldnt that be just strictly the policy of a pure and simple cult? And what then would be the purpose of the Forum, except to strenghten the concepts and ideas within the cult?
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 22:03:16 (GMT)
From: gErRy
Email: None
To: Bjørn
Subject: Hey, Bjorn really is...
Message:
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 16:21:49 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Bjørn
Subject: But did you think of this, Bjorn?
Message:
Bjorn,

Here's what could happen. If you continue to post here under different names after being warned not to -- and yes, you've now been warned -- you can be reported to your server for harrassing a private web site which, ultimately, this is. Let them decide what to do with you. My experience is that once your ISP looks into the situation, they'll do the easy and safe thing and cancel you. (Right, Mili?) Could you get another server? Sure. But the moment we then figure out it's you again we'd notify your new server as to what's what. They'd cancel you in a second. Could you keep the game up? Perhaps. But eventually you'd have one hell of a time getting any internet account at home and will be left running down to your local internet cafe for an occasional foray onto the net.

Don't believe me? Let's go.

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 16:47:44 (GMT)
From: Bjørn
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: In your dreams, Jim....
Message:
anything is possible. Get real.
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 15:49:06 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Bjorn
Subject: Yes, Bjorn, please use your own name and...
Message:
could you answer a quick question? You said:

If I will post here again, I will accept to only post under my real name as long as I am not met with lies about my person.

Are you talking about people thinking you might be weird, even maybe a pedophile because you admitted to having 'sexual' feelings towards a five year old girl when you were a teenager?

Stuff like that?

Perhaps you are right. Maybe we should talk about how weird it is your being in a cult and coming here and deceiving and basically bothering the people here at the EX-PREMIE forum who just want to talk amongst themselves and work out the bullshit they are experiencing as a result of the same fucking CULT you are in. Yeah, let's stick to that subject...

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 16:43:22 (GMT)
From: Bjørn
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: How stupid can you be gerry?
Message:
I mean excacly stuff like the shit you write.
Do you think a person who had any kind of pedophile feelings ever would admit so in a forum under his full name? As I stated before, it is my opinion that pedophily is a sexual tendency which are developed in some adult persons. Those who fulfill these desires from their sexual tendency, brake a criminal law, BTW crimal laws against my person have been broken here in this Forum by some people.
I have state that I never had such feelings or had anything to do with such kind of sickness. And if any of you repeat this lies and rumours about me, or if FA dont delete such posts,
I will follow it, and we will see what will happen.
I have also stated that in my opinion, Jagdeo should have been to court and sentenced if he were guilty. I have also stated that those people who did not believe in those children who were exposed for Jagdeos actions also are guilty, as their lack of action to stop Jagdeo, probably caused more victims.
What we know is that some parents and premies, did not do actions which could have prevented Jagdeo to pursue his sexual desires, what we dont know, is if Maharaji knew about this.
I dont know if the Jagdeo story is true, this is just my opinion.

And what I have tried to stick to, is not bother people in this Forum, but to challenge the lack of moral and truthfullness which is posted here.
But may be your point is as long as you post lies and dubious ruomours against Maharaji, his organisation or people who believe in Maharajis message, it is OK?

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Date: Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 00:26:26 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Bjørn
Subject: But Bjorn, didn't you say
Message:
you had sexual feelings for a five year old when you were a teenager? I'm sure you said something like that. That's what caused all the furor, as we were discussing the pedophile Jagdeo when you piped in saying you had a hard on for a little girl when you were fifteen or so, so you can undertand about Jagdeo, or something like that.

Did I get something wrong?

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Date: Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 09:46:15 (GMT)
From: Bjørn
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: But Bjorn, didn't you say
Message:
What can I do when I have tried about 10 times to explain things to you and you still not get it.

If a person does not have the brain and is not able to read and understand more than one sentence at a time, what can I do about it?

How mean it is possible for a human being for be, is sometimes hard to understand.

Once more:
To be a pedophile, you have to be an adult.

What I have written, and what you have twisted around, is that I am grateful that I never had such feelings in my life.

I have also written that I assume that those who get such feelings, probably cant help it. Just like some people get feelings for persons of the same sex, some people get feelings for younger persons. Why I dont know.

To improve your reading ability, I suggest that you take it slowly, read one word at a time, try to read the whole sentence, and then read the whole section. Then let it sink in and try to understand what it means. You see if you only read one sentence, or part of it, then take it out of context, you might miss the whole point.

Good luck. Hope you understand what I write this time.

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Date: Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 15:53:13 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Bjørn
Subject: Then you're in trouble, Bjorn...
Message:
Bjorn said:

To be a pedophile, you have to be an adult.
What I have written, and what you have twisted around, is that I am grateful that I never had such feelings in my life.

First of all, a teenager who is not an adult CAN be a pedophile, especially when the age differences are so great, ie, a fifteen year old and a five year old.

Secondly, what you wrote was that when you were a teenager, you had 'sexual feelings' for a five year old girl.

I have also written that I assume that those who get such feelings, probably cant help it. Just like some people get feelings for persons of the same sex, some people get feelings for younger persons. Why I dont know.

Yeah, I don't kow why you got those feelings either, Bjorn. And what worries me is what you have just inferred: that these pedophile urges don't go away. Maybe you should consider therapy of some sort.

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Date: Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 18:54:10 (GMT)
From: Bjørn
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: You are nothing but a liar, gerry
Message:
Fact # 1. I never wrote I was fifteen when fell in love with a younger girl (and thought I would merry her when I grew up).

Fact # 2. This incident happened in 1960 and I was actually 13 years old. I was not even sexually mature at that time

Fact # 3 I never had any such feelings in my adult life

Fact # 4. I have a normal sexual life, and I personally find pedophilic attitude sickening. (even if I feel sorry for those for some reason have such tendencies)

You must be sick. Every time I write under my name, at least 10 times you must have posted here regarding my person, just for one purpose only; to try to spread the rumour that I should be a pedophile. This you have done by twisting my words and in spite that I have explained over and over again that I am not having any such feelings like what you try to identify me with.

So, be aware, the next time I go to the states, I will contact my laywer in New Jersey and the police, so what will happen then concerning the future of the Forum will be your responsibility. At least now there have been a jugdement concerning a similar case concerning rumours spread in a forum.

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Date: Tues, Apr 18, 2000 at 15:10:19 (GMT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Bjørn
Subject: Pleeease don't sic Jersey lawyers on me , Bim (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 16:42:13 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Bjorn's English has improved somewhat - no? (nt)
Message:
Bjorn's English has improved somewhat - no? (nt)
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 17:41:08 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: not conclusive proof of anything, although...
Message:
Hi cq -
I have several friends for which English is a second (or third, fourth, fifth) language, and their ability to think, talk, and write in English often varies, depending on their mood, distractions, etc. Ditto for my ability to speak and write in another language.

I will say this, though: when a person posts under several different names - and I'm not talking about joking posts - I'm talking about posts where a person who is not new to the forum pretends to be new to the forum, it is highly irritating. People spend a lot of time writing responses to these posts, and when they find out that they are talking to someone who they have talked to before, it makes them doubt the person's sincerity. I know that I definitely doubt Bjorn's sincerity since he appeared as 'Robbie' (and yes, I knew it was you all along, Bjorn), and at this point, I see what he is doing as 'spamming' - posting the same stuff over and over under different names.

By the way, Bjorn, you stated once that you were an aspirant and hadn't received 'knowledge' yet. Why are you so interested in promoting Maharaji and knowledge on this site if that is so? Don't you think you should receive knowledge BEFORE you talk about it?

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 20:13:34 (GMT)
From: Bjørn
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: What this proves?
Message:
Dear Katie
I sometimes read a few posts here. Only a few. I think I posted sometimes here from mid of november till mid of december and did not post nor read anything till march.

If you dont think I am sincere, that is up to you. However I did not intend to deceive people, but I chosed to change names, because of my experience here at the Forum. And I did not discuss the same things except one time when I wrote about cults.

You say I wrote I was an aspirant. That is not true. I did not write that, and I did not intend to deceive people. What I wrote was that I aspired to be a premie. That means to me, just what I wrote and I still mean it - I am aspiring to be a lover.

For me it is obious that some of the people posting here, do not have a very excellent memory. The same persons I argued with as a 'premie' and told that I had Knowlegde, suddenly regarded me as an aspirant.

This misunderstanding also proves that some people here do not have a very good ability to read. This I have watched many times.

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 17:57:58 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Right on, Katie baby!
Message:
Sure, she doesn't go for the jugular that often but when she does......

Watch out!

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 05:24:48 (GMT)
From: Røb(moron)
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: One Bjorn every minute
Message:
I would hazard a guess that Bjorn/Robbie/Robin Hood is most likely the Artist Formerly Known As Catweasel.

He isn't Rob, though. Trust me.

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 12:24:40 (GMT)
From: Dave
Email: vpost3@hotmail.com
To: Rob
Subject: One Bjorn every minute
Message:
Nice to see you up to your old tricks, Rob(/Cerbie etc). Now how the hell did you do that? I knew it had to be you.
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 20:40:03 (GMT)
From: ¶ (moron)
Email: None
To: Dave
Subject: One Bjorn every minute
Message:
Nice to see your obsession with him/them is strong as ever! I knew you'd be all over it. Look for ampersand code in your html book:)
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 06:56:02 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jim / all
Subject: One Bjorn every minute
Message:
My point was that Jim can't ask the FA's to handle this impossible task. Because there are many here doing this.
Jim I'm surprised you are just now seeing it. Or maybe this one person is bothering you so now you are mentioning it. Whatever.
Good luck with this one. I've noticed it for weeks.
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 23:30:37 (GMT)
From: selene
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: bjorn is not the only one. nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 01:22:30 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: selene
Subject: That's the general problem in many cases (nt)
Message:
That's the general problem in many cases (nt)
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 08:42:06 (GMT)
From: Fessing Up
Email: None
To: thread
Subject: Trix and Zeld = 1 person 2 names. Fact. NT
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 21:59:08 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Remind you of what being a premie is like? Yuck.
Message:
Okay this is from a current premie (as posted on Enjoyinglife) and this is the kind of hell he lives in. Not only does knowledge not work for him, he feels like a failure, as well and feeling unworthy, because he can't 'remember what is most important to him.' I remember this feeling so well, and it is hell.

Look, Nick, if it was important and enjoyable you wouldn't forget it and have to beat yourself over the head for not remembering it. Do you have trouble remembering sex, or food, or sleeping if you get tired, etc., etc? Of course not. So, if knowledge and Maharaji are so great why do you forget about them, whay does Maharaji, is he is so great, allow you to do that, and why do you have to live this miserable dichotomy in your life?

Nick Ridout: Yesterday
From Neptune, New Jersey, USA

Yesterday I had a frustrating day. This is not unusual for me. I work with computers (programmer) and I still haven't learned, after all these years, to keep my focus on what is truly important. Thus, I suffer. After work, I stopped for some food on my way to the local video event. I started to relax and began to feel hopeful the video event would improve my disposition.

We watched two videos. He is so beautiful. How lucky to have encountered such a one in this lifetime....

How can I be such a slow learner? Why do I allow everything else to supersede that one thing that is most important to me? I want to be like you, Maharaji. No, I am not saying I want to be a master. I just want to always, always, always think of THAT ONE THING that is THE MOST IMPORTANT TO ME.

I am a very slow learner. Please don't give up on me. This seedling is still aiming for the sky.

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 09:47:19 (GMT)
From: Angry
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Question for Nick.
Message:
That bit about being a seedling reminded me that 20+ years after I had received the most sacred of Knowledges, I still was believing that seedling crap. At what point does the seed sprout? Aren't all premies secretly trapped in this seedling shit, thinking they are more the exception than the rule. Who has this K sprouted for? I can tell you that of the many cult members I knew beyond the Satsang/video presentation level a grand total of ZERO had gone and sprouted. Somehow Fatso Ji sets up a veil of secrecy so that premies think others are sprouting or realizing K while some deficiency within is holding them back...this is a very sick thing to do to people.

No One has sprouted yet--No One!!

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 09:52:21 (GMT)
From: Angry
Email: None
To: Angry
Subject: Question for Nick.( not Nick Danger) nt
Message:
nnn
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 23:07:38 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Come on, Joe. He sounds like he's doing just fine
Message:
Why are you so negative?

1) The guy's got a job.

2) He has a computer.

3) He obviously has a lot of love for the speaker of the Universe. AND, he made it to the video!

Joe, like he says, this guy's just a 'seedling'. He's humble. He's full of love and, most importantly, he appreciates to the extent a seedling can just how important Maharaji is in our, er I mean, his life. Bet you can't say that about yourself, can you?

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 23:22:18 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Come on, Jim Maybe Not
Message:
1) The guy's got a job.

Which he hates.

He has a computer.

I wouldn't be so sure. I bet he just uses a computer at his job, which he hates.

He obviously has a lot of love for the speaker of the Universe. AND, he made it to the video!

More like illusory, dependent need than love. A truly sick relationship. Yeah, he made it to the video, but only by the grace of the master, not due to his own ability to walk, drive or crawl.

Joe, like he says, this guy's just a 'seedling'. He's humble.

Actually, he isn't humble, he's pathetic. There is a difference.

he appreciates to the extent a seedling can just how important Maharaji is in our, er I mean, his life. Bet you can't say that about yourself, can you?

Of course you are right, and no I can't.


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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 15:38:57 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Letter to Instructors
Message:
Perhaps a letter to instructors would now be in order. It is easy to find an address once you have a phone number, doing a 'reverse' people search. I have found some addresses to match the phone numbers given below.

The letter could identify the various websites against Rawat and give particular reading recommendations, for example: 'two young premie girls were sexually molested by Jagdeo. Rawat was informed about this extremely serious problem and he failed miserably in his response. See the accounts written by Susan and Abi at the website called 'The Truth About Maharaji.' The website's URL could also be given and the link to the posts.

Of course I would specifically mention Susan's post only if given her permission to do so.

Other particularly good posts could also be cited.

I am sure that most of these new and old instructors are aware of the ex sites, but as premies they probably ignore them for the most part. It may be helpful to let them know that there is serious opposition to the cult that they are perpetrating, and there is some very embarassing information readily available that they need to consider.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 20:11:58 (GMT)
From: A.P.
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Letter to Instructors
Message:
I hope once you write something you'll post here for all of us to see. Maybe I can use it for the upcoming events.. Perhaps on windsheilds of cars.
See Ya
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 23:13:54 (GMT)
From: dv
Email: None
To: A.P.
Subject: Whens the Miami program?nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 11:49:16 (GMT)
From: vd
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: Whens the Miami program?nt
Message:
When u find out, let me know
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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 05:08:16 (GMT)
From: Røb (moron)
Email: None
To: dv
Subject: Not prog, K review, invite only (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 20:37:33 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: A.P.
Subject: re:windshields
Message:
I've thought about windshields fliers. I'm pretty sure that there will be a strong security force keeping tabs on the parking lots used by premies at all the upcoming programs. They will no doubt remove the fliers from the windshields, but it's worth a try.
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 20:56:12 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Rough draft of letter
Message:
Dear _________________________,

This letter is being sent to you to request that you make careful consideration of the facts about Prem Pal Singh Rawat presented in several websites. The locations of these websites are highlighted in the attached pages.

We specifically direct your attention to a serious problem that has recently come to light. One of Maharaji's initiators sexually molested several children. Mr. Rawat was informed of the molestations by two of his close associates and he failed to make the proper response. In fact, the initiator was allowed to continue touring the world with direct access to more children. First-hand accounts by two of the victims are available at the website called 'The Truth About Maharaji.'

We also wish to alert you to our ongoing concerns expressed at the Forum Discussion section of the Ex-Premie Website. One of our concerns, the treatment of ashrams premies at the closing of the ashrams, recently generated an apology from one of Mr. Rawat's former closest associates. But there remain many unanswered concerns.

We believe that Mr. Rawat continues to perpetrate many cultish aspects that should never be associated with human spirituality. Although Mr. Rawat has toned down his rhetoic to a more socially acceptable level, it remains troublesome that a strict dependence upon Maharaji is still taught to new recruits. These new recruits are not told the whole story.

There are many ex-premies who are quite unhappy and frustrated about the situation we encountered in the past and about the situation we see occurring in the present.

We thank you for whatever careful consideration you give to this information.

(5 attachments giving the first pages of the major ex-premie websites)

Any suggestions?

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 22:58:49 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Hmmmm......
Message:
I think I would generalize it a bit more. Frame it as a question of honesty. Talk about the fact that while some might believe that Rawat is not a cult leader he has consistently controlled information like one. Finally, a number of former followers are piecing together a more accurate picture of the man and, unfortunately, the image is a troubling one. For example (and then give the Jagdeo story). Maybe raise the rhetorical question of 'Do we really know this man or, rather, just an carefully controlled image, one that's run the gamut all the way from Saviour of the world (with appropriate salient quote) to 'no leader or figurehead' (quoting his website). This leads quite naturally to an introduction to JM's website where these official representatives of Maharaji can finally learn something of the historical and cultural context he arose from.

I think mentioning Dettmers' apology, such as it was, is most effective as an example of how singularly unique and rare such expressions of accountability have been in the cult history. If you're going to mention Michael like that you might as well identify him. No reason to be vague.

What you've written is good but I would jsut expand the scope of it a bit. Also, I think the right phrase is 'on several websites', not 'in'.

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Date: Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 09:33:45 (GMT)
From: Trixie
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Hmmmm......about Michael
Message:
Do you think it is right to quote and name him without letting him know about it?
If he made the apology on this forum it probably doesnt matter.

I would like to see the Jagdeo thing later in the letter instead of leading with it.

Jim your comments are good. Can you put your suggestions in the text.

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 16:26:36 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: letter
Message:
Dear Way,

I read this thread the first day and I have not been able to articulate my discomfort with it so I have waited. Obviously, Abi and I posted what we did because we felt it was important to speak the truth in a public forum about the Jagdeo issue.

But somehow the idea of this letter going out to instructors or being plastered on windshields gives me a bad feeling.

As best as I can explain it is that the letter needs to be about the cult being a cult, not about Jagdeo and how his crimes were covered up a the primary issue. As Jim said, if the letter is a general one about the issues of Rawat, DLM, EV being a cult, the way he did not deal with Jagdeo could be very appropriately mentioned within it as supporting evidence that the cult is a cult that does cult like things, including this one of ignoring this and covering up.

It is important as I think if you take on something like this to keep this perspective, that if Rawat's private life had been pristine in every way, and the Jagdeo thing had never occurred, that what we all saw everyday was enough to prove it was a cult. Rawat let people worhsip him as God, the superior power in person, give him all thier worldly goods, sacrificed families and educations to worship at the feet of living perfect master. The issue we all lived through is the real focus. He isn't God, he's just a guy, and it looks like a cowardly guy who won't face the truth about his past, and his present for that matter, as the cult is a fully functioning cult, just a bit toned down.

Also tactically, sending this letter to instructors is sending it to the very people who will most easily dismiss it. They have proven their ability to live with condradiction and be good cult members, that is why they have reached the rank they have. I worry by sending the letter to them it is a wasted effort. If the Jagdeo issue is the bannerhead of the letter it looks like I am behind the idea and I am not. Only because I think it won't work. It will just hand them a way to prove their devotion to the Speaker by being just another PAM who refuses to deal with the issue.

So my request is if you do write this, that the Jagdeo issue be just one thing on a long list of things that illustrate that not only is Rawat human, but he isn't such a great human at that, not the focus of your letter.

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 18:33:09 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: To Susan and Jim re letter
Message:
Jim and Susan,

I have read your suggestions and concerns. Since there is no one else making suggestions, then it is now my intention that I write a second draft and share it with you both, off-line. I will probably do that next Monday, and will try to address your concerns then. My email address is wwilliam@kumc.edu.

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 17:45:06 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: I agree -- excellent idea (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 15:57:57 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Good idea
Message:
What's great about that idea is that it will force Maharaji to respond somehow. Maybe not to us but to the recpients. Okay, maybe not. But it should. Great idea. Go for it.
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 21:07:18 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Good idea
Message:
What about trying to get a stuggling journalist to become an aspirant to get his career breaking scoop? You know, the real inside story kinda thing.

Maybe a little too left field. Just a thought.

Coach.

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 17:56:18 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: To Susan, please read this
Message:
Susan,

As I mention above, I am thinking about sending letters to a group of instructors for whom I have addresses. I want to alert them to some of the particularly important information on the ex-premie websites. Posts from you and Abi are available at 'The Truth About Maharaji' site, and also in your journey entry here. I would like to specifically mention those posts in my letter. Do you have any objections? Do you think Abi would have any objections?

Thanks,

Way

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 10:27:16 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Way
Subject: Thanks for taking the initiative
Message:
Way: I have not been around much because I´ve been in the hinterlands of Spain with little or no net access. I´ve missed alot of what has happened recently but caught some of the discussions about Dettmers´ and Apter´s conversations with Jim.

I really appreciate you taking the time and initiative to contact the instructors. I have always respected your contributions here and think they enhance the credibility of your efforts in this regard. Please follow through.

I´ll be back in Ireland on April 18 and intend to take a long look at what´s been happening here. Resounding applause to all who have been pushing things forward of late, both in contacts outside the Forum, and in the discussions generated here.

Much love to all,
Marianne

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Date: Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 09:49:26 (GMT)
From: Trixie
Email: extrixie@hotmail.com
To: Way
Subject: Watching with interest
Message:
Way I have read the thread and am available to help with editing if you like.
Do you plan to post the final copy and can we reuse it to distribute in our area?

great work
trixie

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 12:27:08 (GMT)
From: A.P.
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: First class
Message:
Can somebody here explain to me what first class is? It seems a lot of communicating goes on during planning events. The area managers and national managers all can be reached via FC. If anyone can explain this please do. Also, do the national planners travel to all the programs? I have some forms that were created for the planning of events. It's amazing to me that people take on a full time job in helping to plan these tours for the fat guy. Also, do all these instructor types have real jobs or are they supported by the premies? Would appreciate any info you guys might have. Thanks Again. This forum is great. Someday I hope my Premie signifcant other will post here to to help get over the shock of the truth.
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 13:21:44 (GMT)
From: EV-ex
Email: None
To: A.P.
Subject: What is FC or First Class?
Message:
A.P.,
FC, or First Class is a secure internal e-mail system that Elan Vital uses globally.
All EV honchos are on and there are restricted conferences for each area of 'service', (instructors, security, webmasters, event planning, PR, ushers, registration, and on and on and on), broken up by region (North America, Europe etc).
So, Rawat IS using the internet to keep premies very, very busy and connected with each other.
In the premie world, it is VERY COOL to be on FC. You get invited on as you get deeper into an area of 'service'. The more conferences you have access to, the cooler you are.
Elan Vital send you the software to install, gives you a password and PRESTO, you can send an e-mail to Raja Ji or Wadi!
(although I bet you would get instantly thrown off if you did!)
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 16:59:23 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: EV-ex
Subject: FirstClass
Message:
I believe that the vendor of the FirstClass software is SoftArc (now Centrinity), see www.softarc.com.

There is a www.user.firstclass.com/login web page, but you need a user name and a password.

You can download FirstClass client software at www.centrinity.com/downloads/client. A user name and password would then be needed. Also, would logging in via www.user.first.com/login be sufficient or do they use another FirstClass server? You might need a URL.

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 04:42:02 (GMT)
From: Røb (moron)
Email: None
To: G
Subject: FirstClass
Message:
European server located in secure building in Madrid.

Passwords/access given out by Nick Beadman. Email him, maybe he'll let you in: nick@nbeadman.freeserve.co.uk

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 15:20:37 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: EV-ex
Subject: Does anyone have the password?
Message:
Boy, would that be fun or what?
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 16:25:45 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Each user has his own!
Message:
but maybe some of them will tell you what's going on there .....
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 15:16:28 (GMT)
From: A.P.
Email: None
To: EV-ex
Subject: Thanks now I know (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 09:15:27 (GMT)
From: Dave
Email: vpost3@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Spam from another forum God
Message:
Don't miss out on this great new offer at The ANYTHING GOES Forum. Money back guarantee and free delivery!

Contact old friends completely FREE at The Great Worldwide Linkup and to peruse ALL of our terrific services just point your browser to Not Maharaji's Mixed Bag.

You know it makes sense!
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 14:16:53 (GMT)
From: Roswell
Email: None
To: Dave
Subject: Most Excellent....
Message:
but you need to change the background; can't read yellow on white, it washes out.

Tx

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 16:06:26 (GMT)
From: Dave
Email: None
To: Roswell
Subject: Pardon?
Message:
Where's the yellow on white? There isn't any I've done on any of the sites I've mentioned. I'm curious to know where you see it. Which background are you refering to?
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 16:34:38 (GMT)
From: Roswell
Email: None
To: Dave
Subject: Pardon?
Message:
Dave:
The yellow and blue typeface on white background shows up on Anything Goes. Must be my browser that's the problem. I'm working off an old laptap with an older browser.

Sorry for any confusion.
R

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 18:11:13 (GMT)
From: Dave
Email: None
To: Roswell
Subject: Now I understand
Message:
If you don't get the starry night background, you're getting the default Paradise background colour which is white. I've changed it to grey (gray) now. But you're missing a glorious starlit night!
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 18:41:03 (GMT)
From: Roswell
Email: None
To: Dave
Subject: Now I understand
Message:
Ah, such is life. Those starlit nights are perfect for spotting UFOs. Guess I'll have to either move to Gulport, Florida, or get in touch with THAT inner alien, which should be pretty easy to do. In my psychotic teens, I actually thought I had to 'earn' my way back to the planet from which I was exiled. Sometimes, I wish I still believed that (obviously I am treading that thin line between sanity and insanity). But you know what they say, sometimes insanity is a sane reaction to insanity. Now how did I ever get here from talking about starlit nights? Time to update that browser and remove all doubts.
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 17:20:15 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Roswell
Subject: Pardon?
Message:
Hi David -
Just want to confirm what Roswell said. My computer loads the text first and then the background, so for several seconds I can see the yellow text on the white background. It would be very difficult to read if your computer didn't load the background.

Take care -
Katie

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 14:43:13 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Dave
Subject: Most Excellent....
Message:
Yeah, Dave, some browsers can't seem to handle the background (though some do).
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 06:47:53 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: French/Spanish Forums
Message:
What are the URL's? I can't find them on JM's or ex-premie.org.

Can someone post the addresses or links?

Thanks

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 09:02:59 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Runamok
Subject: French/Spanish Forums
Message:
The english homepage contains links (via flag gifs) to the french/spanish pages. Those pages contain links to their respective forums.
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 17:45:49 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: thanks Brian nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 05:51:37 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: What does an instructor instruct?
Message:
Pardon my ignorance but I really haven't understood for years what an intructor actually intructs. As I understand it, there is only one person in the world who is able to speak about k(because only he can) and only one person is capable of giving it.

So what do instructors actually instruct?

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 20:55:22 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Yep
Message:
Jethro,

Absolutely.

I have also wondered about this. On reflection I think these people have been given the title 'instructors' for one very simple reason. As you say they don't instruct anybody in anything. Giving them the title 'instructor' automatically elevates them, in name, above the standard issue 'prembot'. It instills an assumed position of subservience. It's all about control. Yuck.

Coach.

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Date: Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 05:19:15 (GMT)
From: Nudist Colony
Email: Cold Winkles
To: Coach
Subject: Instructor's New Clothes
Message:
Dear Coach,

Not only is M not wearing any clothes but the Instructors aren't wearing any either.......The twits are in the altogether the altogether, as naked as the day that they were born.... These eyes of mine at once determine the cloak of velvet the cape of ermin the hose of blue and the doublet is a lovely shade of green, somebody send for the queen.....Just a little ditty sung by the young boy in 'The king's New clothes'... I can't stop humming!

I have experienced premies (I must admit it's usually female ones) ooing and arring over a variety of instructors and between you and me it makes me SICK!

I'm not sure what they do either. It seems that these monkeys have been around so long that m feels he has to 'elevate' them to a certain status. Either that or he is making the monkey go up and down the stick from here on out..... just like the analogy he used to make concerning that crazy mind.

Regards from the Nudist Colony.

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Date: Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 17:14:46 (GMT)
From: Coach
Email: None
To: Buff Cove
Subject: Buff Cove
Message:
Dear Danny Kaye Fan,

And another thing. I wonder how many of 'em would be so keen to take the King's shilling if they were called 'dogsbodys' or something.

Be assured I know of at least one female dogsbody who was tempted on occasions get her kit off and indulge in a bit of horizontal joggin'. Not braggin', but facts are facts. Won't even look me in the eye now. She said she'd get me a seat on the front row. I ended up at the back enshrouded in the aroma of Gitanes and patouli oil amongst the delinquent French contingent. I felt used.

Coach

An' another thing. What DO they DO? Very Zen if you ask me. A post without a porpoise. A wheel within a whelk. Never endin' or beginnin'.......................


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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 15:31:25 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Coach
Subject: Yep
Message:
I think I get it:

How much more difficult for an initiator to renounce than for your average premie.

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 06:16:19 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: What does an instructor instruct?
Message:
I guess they try to take care of you ignorant,
so that you may be able to benefit Rawat's teaching !!

You (and me) are a desperate case IMO ........

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 06:26:37 (GMT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: What does an instructor instruct?
Message:
So instructors must have something that ordinary 'ignorants' does not have. Is that right? If so does prempal give them some magic power?
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 08:02:51 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: OK, let's try not being mystic
Message:
The issue is quite simple: inside his non-organization that Rawat obviously doesn't have any control of (he's no head figure, has nothing to do with it, he's merely its guest at events...), he needs some reliable tool or system to introduce and condition the knowledgeable to His secret and mysterious holy k sessions.

There has to be some privacy on this process, as the thing is very private, and 'ordinary' premies can't be around .... Otherwise, what would 'knowledge' be? Just 5 techniques? Let's be serious here!!

The public part is when aspirants or 'interested' persons get to see the videos one way or another. The videos are made and selected by Visions, and the aspirants' teams have some straight guidelines.

Then there has to be an interface between the public part, and the mysterious part where the Rat Himself takes care of the initiation process.

I guess this is where the instructors' role fits. They have meetings with the aspirants' teams (read their reports) and the aspirants, check who is who (see aspirants's guidelines on EV Today) and tell them who is going to be admitted for the next step (k selection) etc. Then they also help for the k sessions, together with some selected premies of the various teams (aspirants' team, security, ushers, translators, AV, etc).

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 11:15:43 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I need a review
Message:
Otherwise, what would 'knowledge' be? Just 5 techniques? Let's be serious here!!

I may have missed something, but I could swear that I was taught four techniques. If there's a fifth technique that I, somehow, wasn't present for (maybe I fell asleep or something), is it possible to schedule a knowledge review so I can learn this technique? I have a feeling not knowing this technique may be a reason why I never got much out of practicing K, and could be the key to my bitterness as an ex, today.

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 13:18:43 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: The actual truth about instructors
Message:
Now that I thought a bit about it, I've finally understood something interesting:

Can you imagine premies and aspirants interacting ONLY with Rawat? He's almost illiterate, incult, abusive sort of personality, alcoholic, womanizer, greedy, always after money, has no connection with the actual world, can't normally interact with people, always needing his special environment to feel comfortable, says too many stupid things etc. (He won't like me anymore I'm afraid ....)

DLM/EV never could play this role either. Like in any other business, the managers are after positions, fighting with each other, busy administrating themselves and keeping other premies busy.

He needs something 'holy', something more divine than his strange personality and his wierd organization. That was also the case in the past with his mother, who was also always shouting at everybody, illiterate and incult.

That's why they had all these guys with safron cloths. They've always needed nice, loving and dedicated guys around them. Giving a nice picture of the whole thing. because most of these guys are really nice guys.

They got rid of the safron guys in west, except for a few of them (same reason - keep some link with the 'indian' side with some 'holy' nice dedicated guys).

Rawat definitely needs some nice devoted guys to take care of the 'spiritual' side of the business. These guys play a very important role in the system.

They're being manipulated. Rawat is asking them to do things he could never do himself, and have an ethic he never had. They're more or less by themselves, working as a team, with their goodwill.

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 08:31:01 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: The big deceit for instructors !
Message:
These guys don't have any clue they're used by Rawat to give credibility (i.e. put some mystery) to his fraud.

They believe in their role, the premies also do! I've been part of the system. I guess it's been quite difficult for me to get to that conclusion. And most of theses guys will never admit this. Too difficult and painful.

Understand?

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Date: Thurs, Apr 13, 2000 at 23:20:09 (GMT)
From: Trixie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Has the forum ever compiled a questionairre for Pr
Message:
Pemies who may be aspiring to become exs? It seems that there have been some key questions on the threads-but are they in the form of a questionairre like in the magazines? You know, if a premie answered yes to 10 questions, then you may be well on your way to breaking awany from the cult. If you answered yes to 8 questions you are on the fence.

It seems corny, but it may be a way of premies facing/ acknowledging their doubt to themselves.

This kind of tool would help to bring some sort of order to thier thinking about their cult involvment. If they rely solely on lurking here they are more likely to get swayed by the riff raff around.

It could be amoung the choices, right up there with Drek- or on dreks site.

I would put some energy ito something like this, but not on my own.

Just a thought
Trixie

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 17:14:53 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Trixie
Subject: 'Questioning Devotion'
Message:
Hi Trixie -
I don't know if this is the kind of thing you mean, but Brian and I wrote a page for this site called Questioning Devotion, which goes over the questions and issues that we and other people on the forum grappled with when we were becoming ex-premies.

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 06:03:35 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Trixie
Subject: try these out
Message:
It's a reasonable idea but there's no reason to wait. Just put it on the forum. You can stick it on your own journey entry if you want to, or someone will decide to post it somewhere permanently. (You could write the webmaster of
ex-premie.org or any of the other pages about posting it.)

They might be best as multiple choice questions, but I tried to flesh a couple of them out without dealing with that angle.

'As a premie, do you think that success in meditation is something you control or Maharaji controls?'

'Is a perfect master chosen by God or by the previous master in his lineage?'

'Is your spiritual salvation dependent on Maharaji or the meditation he teaches?'

Maybe I'm in an oldtimer's frame of mind, but I'm sure the issues are about the same.


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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 06:50:11 (GMT)
From: Trixie
Email: None
To: Runamok and Katie
Subject: Katie and Run
Message:
Yes this is what I was talking about . thanks.
I was also thinking of a check list. '5 Signs of Co Dependance'
or something like that. It seems that the fact that involvement with M. organisation comes under the heading of 'spiritiual' or bieng about THAT peace- makes it somehow exempt from the usual associations of the word 'co dependance'- so it is not so obvious to premeis.

Some premies are social workers or counsellors and still dont get it.

I think the title 'Why should a premie break Free?' is a little more inviting than 'Breaking Free'- to the premie who arrives at this site and is exploring the ideas here. The fence line premies I know veered sharply from the thought of an ablsolute 'break' with M. untill they lurked here for quite a while. Myself included.

I remember thinking 'If I dont go to the section about breaking free- I am still somehow loyal to M'- so I lurked for ages. Perhaps if I had confronted myself with these questions early on it would have been a cleaner break. The feeling of going back on a vow I had made to love M forever was the hardest for me. Deep down I really knew he held the key to heaven.

Realizing I had made this vow to a control freak helped.

Thanks for your posts
Trixie

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 15:43:17 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Trixie
Subject: Trixie, thanks
Message:
Hi Trixie -
I was interested in your comment about the title 'Breaking Free' - thanks very much for the input and perspective. It really helps to know what people think when they find the site. Can you suggest some other alternative titles? I can't promise anything, but I am interested.

Re the site - both Brian and I are working lots of overtime in the Real World, and haven't had time to work on the English site for a long time (except for posting Journeys, White Pages, and answering e-mails). Thus it's hard to add anything that is not submitted AS a web page already. But if you (or anyone else) is interested in working on ex-premie.org, or submitting page, please contact me or Brian (brian@ex-premie.org).

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 02:08:57 (GMT)
From: trixie
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: thanks
Message:
Hi Katie

Recently I have been looking at the site through the eyes of a premie who just happened to drop in- hence the feedback that Breaking Free is a strong challenge and possibly not a helpfull one for some people

. I like 'Why Break Free?' because it gives questions to ask oneself.

When I found this site, I was real uncomfortable with how I felt about M but had not yet formulated the possibilty of actually leaving.

The questions that have appeared on the threads in the last couple of days seem vital. Including what Jim is saying about the double menaings of words- where one is said but the other one implied. It is on the Respect thread.


As for a web page - lets see what develops.

As for real world jobs- ditto!
(:0

trixie

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 10:10:56 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Trixie
Subject: Katie and Run
Message:
I've thought about this a bit since posting to you. There are other types of questions which are more obvious... leading questions if you will. 'Are you giving more of your money than you can afford to Elan Vital?' or 'Have you ever suspected Maharaji of not having your own best interests at heart in his teachings?' Overall, there is some strength to developing specific questions (and I wouldn't think just five).

It is less confronting to read something posted than to 'face' a live 'deprogrammer' (ok a serial deprogrammer, I suppose). While we don't like to think of ourselves as repeating the same
anti-cult dance, we really are basically bouncing a couple of concepts around- that no one can own your experience of meditation, the blatant fraudulence of M's past claims, etc.

I'm sure if you want to you can develop this online here as a thread or a future thread by asking for possible questions.

It's relatively easy to develop a simple website with text. Almost all servers (like AOL or whoever) offer a 2+ meg website with a simple 'wizard' style program allowing you to post text on the Internet almost as easily as you send email.

Go for it.

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 11:45:38 (GMT)
From: Trixie
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Katie and Run
Message:
Thanks Run!
I shall scout forth into AOL whatever that is!
If you think of any more Questions I would be interested.

There are many layers to this thing- money, the god claims from the past, Ms lifestyle are on one side. In this a premie just needs to be comfortable with having doubts. 'is M setting up hoards of co dependants/

And then it is what it is doing to the person on the other. Affecting relationships, substiting interaction, emotional developement. Guilt,
denial of problems.

The most corrosive is the exclusive prostelizing mindset. This menas that problems dont get worked through because satsang fixes everything.
The 'we are saved but you are not' thing.

I will think some more on this.
Trixie

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 15:46:30 (GMT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Trixie
Subject: Geocities
Message:
Hi again Trixie -
I learned basic HTML from working on a personal Geocities page. They give you a lot of help. I think most of Sir David's ex-premie sites are on Geocities. The address is www.geocities.com.

Take care,
Katie

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 15:27:35 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Trixie
Subject: You could post more questions
Message:
You could experiment. You could have a group of questions about how friends, lovers, or children are effected by your involvement. Questions about personal attitudes toward other people as in 'do you have a solution to life that others do not?'

Just throw them out here. Or try asking them to premies here, I suppose.

AOL is America Online. I'll guess that you're not in America. Almost any service provider that hooks you up to the Internet offers free webspace and usually has a real simple program to post text with.

You're a recent ex, right Trix?

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Date: Sat, Apr 15, 2000 at 20:36:22 (GMT)
From: trixie
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: You could post more questions
Message:
fairly recent- a couple of years.
became a premie when the lud still had Indias dust on his feet and his mother was feeding him rice balls stuck together with sugar.

I think your suggestions are what needs to happen. Maybe Ill wander over to an AA site and see if I can get some clues.

happy weekend

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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 01:39:05 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Trixie
Subject: Has the forum ever compiled a questionairre for Pr
Message:
Yeah! Gee whiz, I have an idea, let's make a video! No wait, why not do a satellite feed? Maybe Dettmers could do some consulting on how to properly manipulate the premies away from maharaji.
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 15:23:58 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Now who's the asshole? (nt)
Message:
hm?
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Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2000 at 21:17:28 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: The punishment fits the crime (nt)
Message:
nt
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