Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Wed, Mar 15, 2000 at 10:57:15 (GMT)
From: Mar 01, 2000 To: Mar 13, 2000 Page: 2 Of: 5


Anarchist -:- The not master poet -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 12:22:32 (GMT)
__ mirror -:- Feel better Dave? -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 21:55:26 (GMT)
__ __ Brian -:- Appreciating Maharaji - The Meaning of Premie Life -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 10:53:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mike -:- Wait Brian.... he DID do something -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:50:14 (GMT)
__ __ Anarchist -:- Feel better Dave? -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 04:25:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ mir -:- Sure... -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:08:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- He is being protected by the honchos lawyers you s -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 20:05:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Anarchist -:- No you're the gutless hecker, mir -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:36:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ mirror -:- Sure...well tell me this -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 17:05:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Anarchist -:- Sure...well tell me this -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:21:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- A few thoughts for Anarchist -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 15:39:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ(nt) -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 21:50:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Hal -:- Hey dep it still works without -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:35:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ hamzen -:- A few thoughts for DD -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:56:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Way -:- A question for Dog -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:49:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Way - A question for Dog -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 02:49:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Anarchist -:- A few thoughts for Anarchist -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:24:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- A few thoughts for Anarchist -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 17:47:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JHB -:- A few thoughts for Dogg -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:22:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- A few thoughts for Dogg -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 14:40:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Thanks, DD -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 17:50:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- No, Dogg, it's NOT an honest answer -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 15:57:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- No, Dogg, it's NOT an honest answer -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 03:06:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JB -:- A few thoughts for Dogg -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 23:21:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- A few thoughts for Dogg -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:09:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Nicely put, Dogg -- you really said it all -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:00:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Nicely put, Dogg -- you really said it all -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 03:26:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hilarious wiggling, Dogg -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 21:04:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Nicely put, Dogg -- autosuggestion really works -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:38:01 (GMT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- You're so wrong Mr Mirror - and here's why -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 01:42:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ JB -:- Dave, very impressive. (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 23:25:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Allow me to quibble, Dave -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 02:03:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Allow me to quibble, Dave -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 02:15:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Allow me to quibble, Dave -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 02:20:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Allow me to quibble, Dave -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:33:24 (GMT)
__ __ AJW -:- The Knowledge of all Knowledges. -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 00:50:33 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- But he gave the innocent no choices -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 23:38:09 (GMT)
__ __ JW -:- Hypocrite -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 23:06:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ A Master Poet -:- ... and coward -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 03:16:11 (GMT)
__ __ Way -:- To mirror -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 23:02:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- beautifully said Way (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 17:10:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ Anarchist -:- Right on Way! -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:30:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mike -:- WELL SAID, WAY! -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 15:38:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ JB -:- I know premies that... -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 23:35:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- Ok, I know -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:09:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JB -:- I agree absolutely,Mike(nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 19:04:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Ok, I know -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:28:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- Washington, DC of all places! (ot) -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:37:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Washington, DC of all places! (ot) -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:50:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Of course I'm not offended (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:38:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- I didn't think you would be :-) (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 23:32:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ mirror -:- Relax Mike...don't take yourself so seriously -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:19:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- YOU JUST HAVE TO FEEL IT, RIGHT? -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 23:28:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- The Misguider! -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 22:36:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ mirror -:- The Misguider? -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:53:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- The Misguider, you bet! (by your own words) -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 01:12:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ Mirror -:- To mirror -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 01:49:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mike -:- Way isn't a 'projector.' -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 15:57:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Mirror -:- Way isn't a 'projector.' -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 17:48:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- mirror, mirror.... -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 23:04:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- A lotus flower! Feeding itself from rotten waters -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:59:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ mirror -:- A lotus flower! Feeding itself from rotten waters -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 01:06:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Way isn't a 'projector.' -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:14:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ mirror -:- Way isn't a 'projector.' -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:24:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Way isn't a 'projector.' -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:17:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- Shaka-Ri -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:33:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- If you love somebody - set them free(nt)from Rawat -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 20:07:24 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ mir -:- If you love somebody - set them free -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 20:35:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Would you kis his feet again, Mir? -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 16:47:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- If you love somebody - set them free -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:37:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ mir -:- If you love somebody - set them free -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 00:49:06 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ mir -:- Thanks for the clarification Mike -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:35:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Thanks for the clarification Mike -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:42:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- Thanks, John -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 23:21:25 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Why won't you answer my question, Mir? -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 22:33:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ mir -:- Why won't you answer my question, Mir? -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 01:11:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Mir = A Premie = homophobe? -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 20:14:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- Or if that wasn't you... -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 20:57:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Anarchist -:- Can't be much of a master then -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 01:54:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- yes, Yes, YES! -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 15:31:16 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- If he had just stopped there -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:54:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Of course you did! So how can anyone trust you? -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 01:51:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ mir -:- You're chasing your tail on this one Jim! -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 02:02:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You don't LOOK like my tail, AP (a/k/a Mir) -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 02:09:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ hamzen -:- And joining the Q, another little question -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 23:24:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ mirror -:- And joining the Q, another little question -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 01:28:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- OK, heres a little background -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:14:29 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Response to 'background' mir? (nt) -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 19:38:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- You COMPLETELY missed my point -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 08:22:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ mirror -:- And you missed mine -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:41:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- And you missed mine -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:27:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ mir -:- Pretty lame hamzen (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 01:09:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- You COMPLETELY missed my point -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 12:04:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- A bit sad if you ask me. -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:56:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ G -:- 'he was not infallible' i.e. he was fallible -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 04:23:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Observer -:- 20 years was never mentioned, by the way -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 09:34:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- 20 years WAS MENTIONED, by the way -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 23:36:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- 20 years? No, no, no, no, no, very soon, very soon -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 14:08:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ The Independant -:- 20 years was never mentioned, by the way -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 12:28:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ SB -:- You got it ALL WRONG!!! -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 03:23:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- Might I add to your excellent post, SB ? -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 23:15:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ mir -:- Listen mikey-boy -:- Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 01:45:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ mirror -:- You got it ALL WRONG!!! -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:53:27 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- Mir: You didn't get it: GET LOST! -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 08:52:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- IS HE GOD FOR YOU OR NOT?? -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 04:55:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- What are you implying? -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:35:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ m -:- Not implying anything -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:27:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Do you think Maharaji is the Savior and Lord? -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 23:08:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- Don't hold your breath for an answer.... -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 23:28:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ referee Hal -:- S.B. wins with a knockout!!! (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 04:20:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- ROFL (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 15:29:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Okay, A Premie (a/k/a Mir) -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 01:58:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- the RIGHT criteria for measuring his success -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 09:46:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ mir -:- Okay, A Premie (a/k/a Mir) -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 02:08:28 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Why should anyone believe you? -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 02:16:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ mirror -:- Whether you believe me or not... -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:59:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Typical dumb thing to say, Mir -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 04:00:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- I'm not so sure, Jim... -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 17:41:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ mirror -:- Did I say that? -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 00:57:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Thanks for finding that, Nigel -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 23:13:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ SB -:- What! Gospel? -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 23:22:19 (GMT)
__ DOD -:- The not master poet -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 20:17:17 (GMT)
__ The stinking Rat is deaf -:- and doesn't hear your poetry (nt) -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 18:07:42 (GMT)
__ SB -:- You sound angry and I don't blame you -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 12:39:47 (GMT)
__ __ Anarchist -:- You're dead right, I am -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 18:55:36 (GMT)
__ __ __ Remy -:- You're dead right, I am -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 00:08:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ hamzen -:- You're dead right -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 20:41:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ cqg -:- Rawat laughs all the way the bank -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 19:20:34 (GMT)

I spy -:- The Smart Card Project has been presented at ... -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 04:55:23 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- WHAT IS THIS ? -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 06:50:57 (GMT)
__ __ Ben Lurking -:- WHAT IS THIS ? -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 19:56:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- money scam as 'we are doing you a favor' -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 00:04:34 (GMT)

Sir Dave -:- Those dancing hamsters are back -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 00:34:29 (GMT)

I've been a bad premie -:- and didn't attend the InsigtsŪ seminars .... -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 14:30:44 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- and didn't attend the InsigtsŪ seminars .... -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 19:47:57 (GMT)
__ __ Runamok -:- Isn't John-Roger the guy -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 06:33:10 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- InsigtsŪ seminars: as strange as it may seem -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 21:37:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ Gregg -:- two different 'insights' (and Zen Master Rama) -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 16:31:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ G -:- InsightsŪ seminars vs Insight seminars -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 00:02:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- InsightsŪ seminars vs Insight seminars? -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 08:36:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ G -:- Insights, Brian Tracy, Insight links -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 13:35:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ ham -:- J-M, is it possible Rawat's on a %? (nt) -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 23:35:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- J-M, is it possible Rawat's on a %? (nt) -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 14:51:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Of COURSE he's getting % but that's not the issue! -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 17:57:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- I'm lost -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 21:52:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Not me ! PLEASE READ THIS !!! -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 01:28:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Absolutely -- no make that 'fucking' -- amazing! -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 02:32:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- Let's try again -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 21:02:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Insights Discovery Personal Reports - samples -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 19:17:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Insights- the Lothians, Peter Hart, colour energy -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 19:02:30 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- More links to InsigtsŪ.... -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 17:19:18 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- And even more links to InsigtsŪ.... -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 17:31:16 (GMT)

Sniggs -:- Snigged -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 10:46:13 (GMT)
__ Faith-no more -:- Snigged -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 12:26:41 (GMT)
__ __ Jean-Michel -:- No worry, it's still on my website for ever -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 14:52:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Sniggs -:- No worry, it's still on my website for ever -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 15:10:46 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- No worry, it's still on my website for ever -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 16:13:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sniggs -:- why they banned sniggs -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 18:39:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Then why don't you have a general introduction -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 08:14:31 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ SB -:- JM is the man! Send it to him! LOL -nt- -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 15:21:07 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JB -:- You're da man,indeed (nt) -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 17:19:09 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Well I guess I shouldn't do the same mistake -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 11:10:56 (GMT)

sackshitananda -:- 'I am your guru' -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 05:48:47 (GMT)
__ Angry -:- Santana quote-my new mantra -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 11:32:42 (GMT)
__ __ Charlie -:- Santana is full of his own -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 15:38:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ Stonor -:- Does Chinmoy pretend to play the piano? -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 03:40:43 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Runamok -:- Does Chinmoy play the piano? It gets worse... -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 10:31:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Does Chinmoy play the piano? It gets worse... -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 21:00:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- Santana is full of his own -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 22:34:09 (GMT)
__ __ __ Charlie -:- While I'm at it.. -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 15:54:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Hal -:- While I'm at it.. -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 07:36:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jackie -:- While I'm at it.. -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 02:04:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Charlie -:- Feeling faint -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 09:09:42 (GMT)
__ Hal -:- He sucks and............ -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 07:41:54 (GMT)


Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 12:22:32 (GMT)
From: Anarchist
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The not master poet
Message:

You fucking bastard, bastard, bastard Maharaji.
You fucking wrecker of lives,
You fucking manipulator of innocent people
For your own ends.
You are beyond selfish,
You are beyond greedy.
You are an enemy of all sincere people.
You are a fucking abomination
On the face of this Earth.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 21:55:26 (GMT)
From: mirror
Email: None
To: Anarchist
Subject: Feel better Dave?
Message:
Get a grip man...you're hemoraging. This is a fact Dave: You have no appreciation for what M is doing. And my personal observation of you is your mind is ruled by emotion. If you feel you need to become a crusader for the innocent to give your life meaning, you are missing the real meaning of life.

Believe me, even if your perception of M were accurate, which it is not, there are a lot more evil and oppressive forces in this world that you could direct your strong feelings toward. Don't forget, he has brought much happiness and joy to a lot of innocents you would so passionately protect.

And do you take ownership for any lives wrecked as a result of premies who are influenced by your confusion? What about those innocents? If you think you are NOT suceptible to confusion Dave you are deluded.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 10:53:09 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@tigerriver.com
To: mirror
Subject: Appreciating Maharaji - The Meaning of Premie Life
Message:
You have no appreciation for what M is doing.

And just what is M doing that you have such great respect for him?

  • Offering to show people how to concentrate on their own breath as long as they devote their lives to the pretense that he's a special person?
  • Willing to be the person followed by those who can only find meaning by following another person through life?
  • Self-sacrificing enough to demand even greater levels of personal wealth from the pockets of those who have made a 'life' out of bowing down to kiss his feet?

Satpal is in the same business. How much appreciation do you have for Maharaji's older brother? Isn't he just as willing to sop gravy off of someone else's plate as Maharaji is?

Face it, Mirror. You are no more capable of speaking for Maharaji than you are of speaking for yourself. But then I doubt that you come here to speak your own mind. Maharaji discourages that, and you do have so much appreciation for him.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:50:14 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Wait Brian.... he DID do something
Message:
Brian: He invented a pilot-seat and holds patents on a watch, right? I can appreciate that....... snicker...snicker :-)

But GRATITUDE?????? Not a chance, his self-healing watchband binds on my arm and his pilot-seat hurts my butt!!!! Thanks for nothing, M!!!! :-)

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 04:25:11 (GMT)
From: Anarchist
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: Feel better Dave?
Message:
I'm not Dave. I do have a great appreciation for what Maharaji is doing, far more than you have. I KNOW he's exploiting unwary people and his whole organisation is set up to do just that. It's a feudal system. There's several layers with him and a few confidents at the top and the simple gullable premie at the bottom. In between there's an ever changing power seeking group of premies who will happily stab each other in the back to get power. Divide and rule is the norm.

The aim of all of this is for Maharaji to get as much money as possible and if people are exploited, he doesn't care. He doesn't care a fuck about anyone but himself.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:08:45 (GMT)
From: mir
Email: None
To: Anarchist
Subject: Sure...
Message:
I KNOW he's exploiting unwary people and his whole organisation is set up to do just that.

If you are in fact someone with credibility who KNOWS, then why aren't you blowing the whistle properly. Instead you throw out your far-fetched speculations from behind a protective wall of anonimity. Now, I remain anonymous myself but I'm not the one making such outrageous fucking claims as you.

A person is innocent until proven guilty. Unless you come out from your lair and present viable proof of your claims you are just another gutless heckler lobbing baseless accusations from the peanut gallery.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 20:05:49 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: mir
Subject: He is being protected by the honchos lawyers you s
Message:
silly. Loops here and there, like: Nobody forced us to have a guru.

I will love to take Lard to court for all the abuse and lies of his. You bet I would love that.

I 'feel' like something is coming, though. Stay around, you'll see.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:36:31 (GMT)
From: Anarchist
Email: None
To: mir
Subject: No you're the gutless hecker, mir
Message:
Haven't you read anything here? You've not been paying attention. Read House of Maharaji Drek and Jean Michel's site to see how Maharaji is exploiting people. Where does all the money go? Down a big hole which is Maharaji's back pocket and the only service that premies do is getting more money for his insatiable greed.
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 17:05:00 (GMT)
From: mirror
Email: None
To: Anarchist
Subject: Sure...well tell me this
Message:
Yeah, I've read it. A lot of facts and innuendo concocted to present the personal bias of a bunch of very confused individuals.

So you refer me to these sites as your proof. You are bankrupt pal!! How stupid do you think we are? I know...as stupid as you are.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:21:17 (GMT)
From: Anarchist
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: Sure...well tell me this
Message:
Well you tell me this. Like I've already said, if it's all so beautiful and everything, how come most people have left? My experience with Elan Vital and premies in it is that they are NOT all happy, shining eggsamples, as Charnanand used to say. More like a backbiting backstabbing very UNblissful bunch. The cracks are all showing, mirror.

But please tell us which parts of Jean Michel's web site and House of Maharaji Drek are untrue. Which bits do you think have been fabricated? What about the book selling company? Like Maharaji gets a lot of income from that and all from the sweat of those premies who donate vast amounts of the book sale proceeds to his lordship. And there's all the trash which Visions International peddle. That money don't go to no world peace initiative but straight into Maharaji's back pocket. It's ALL just a big set up to make money for Maharaji. And just so he can continue to live in luxury and spout old, worn platitudes over a TV network when he feels like it.

What's in it for the humble premie? Less and less it seems since they don't even get darshan these days. So Maharaji's customer base is leaking away and what's he gonna do bout it? Well he tried getting heavy but it ain't working. The clients are still leaking away. Maybe he'll tell em there's something big round the corner like he used to but they're wise to that one now. Premies know Maharaji ain't no prophet and no lord either. So Maharaji's pretty much fucked and he knows it.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 15:39:46 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Anarchist
Subject: A few thoughts for Anarchist
Message:
Anarchist,

I can feel your anger coming through my computer. Please allow me to make just a few comments.

Maybe your fantasies are the source of your suffering. There is no world out there it exists only in our language. Most people who have recieved Knowledge are happy with it and enjoy it.

As I get older, and certainly when I'm in my 60s and 70s, I'm sure Kowledge will be the only thing I will cling to. You can't take it with you and you can't mail it ahead. What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul? .

There are all kinds of people with money who are miserable. Ask Elvis, Chris Farley, Jimi Hendrix, etc. Sure I'd rather be rich and miserable than poor and miserable. But I'd rather be cool, above it all, and happy.

Forget about the fact that Maharaji has a much money as one of the Backstreet Boys for a second. Try this!

A Scientific Experiment

Wake up tomorrow morning one hour earlier than usual. Hunker down and do an hour of meditation. I'll bet you'll have a better day. You'll notice the good things. You'll deal with the bad things. That's what it's all about.

We really are the source of our experience. Step out of the past and into nothing. IMO that's freedom! Not a big bank account.

Rip me if you want, I just had to get my two cents worth in.

-- Dep

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 21:50:47 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ(nt)
Message:
none
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:35:16 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Hey dep it still works without
Message:
..... the fuckin' guru you know. It works for those who find it in books too.

I tell you man you are being well and truly conned into thinking this third world despot is something special. He's a complete fake old son , wake up!

Hal

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:56:03 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: A few thoughts for DD
Message:
'Wake up tomorrow morning one hour earlier than usual. Hunker down and do an hour of meditation. I'll bet you'll have a better day. You'll notice the good things. You'll deal with the bad things. That's what it's all about.'

Say this was the case, and increasingly for me it is the case, you exactly prove our point, it's got nothing to do with gm.

If they work, they work because they are bog-standard yoga techniques.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:49:26 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: A question for Dog
Message:
DD,

You say that in your later years, you will cling to Knowledge. I am wondering if on your deathbed, taking your final breath, will you be visualizing Rawat's face, remembering him (as he actually instructed recently)????

What if he never 'moves forward' again, and actually resigns? Will you still cling to him for all your life?

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 02:49:43 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Way - A question for Dog
Message:
Way,

As with all things involving Maharaji, remembering his face at final breath is optional. I wonder who Jim will be visualizing? He's obsessed with M.

-- Dep

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:24:42 (GMT)
From: Anarchist
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: A few thoughts for Anarchist
Message:
Not true. Do an hour's meditation and you might have a good day or might have a bad day. There's no correlation. Ask any ex-ashram premie who used to do 2-4 hours mediatation per day. Most premies are not particularly happy. Meditation is NOT the source of all happiness.

Just because we feel happiness inside (pretty obvious that) and we meditate on our breath etc inside does not mean that we're meditating on the source of happiness. Meditation can also make people feel pretty depressed. You can hype it up all you like but it don't change a thing.

Maharaji is continually spreading the delusion that his knowledge makes people happy. It doesn't and so what happens is, he involves them even further into his little trap and promises them happiness and better things to come, which never do come but actually things have gotten worse.

If it was so fucking good, why did most people leave and the ones who remain are not happy? Nobody leaves a good thing. People eventually got tired of the same old promises, the same old crap, the same old lies da de da de da. Yous in a minority brother if yous happy with this trip. Most people left years ago and the rest are nearly finished.

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 17:47:40 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Anarchist
Subject: A few thoughts for Anarchist
Message:
Anarchist,

The more I think about it, the more I agree with you. I am in the minority. When I say meditation makes me feel happy it's not like going to a comedy club.

It's like wiping the slate clean. As I've said before on this site, the void is our true nature. Taking a break from the soap opera is therapeutic. No big cosmic explosions. No gods and goddesses floating around. No robed figures giving me advice. Just a quiet emptiness.

Like the R.E.M. song Texarkana on Out of Time,

I was central I had control
I lost my head
I need this, I need this . . .

I need this! IMO life would be so dry without K. I don't know how people do it.

-- Dep

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:22:19 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: A few thoughts for Dogg
Message:
Dog said:-

A Scientific Experiment

Wake up tomorrow morning one hour earlier than usual. Hunker down and do an hour of meditation. I'll bet you'll have a better day. You'll notice the good things. You'll deal with the bad things. That's what it's all about.

We really are the source of our experience. Step out of the past and into nothing. IMO that's freedom! Not a big bank account.

Rip me if you want, I just had to get my two cents worth in.

Dog,

Very few of us here deny that meditation can have a positive effect on a significant proportion of the population, so your scientific experiment says nothing about Maharaji. Did you read the more scientific experiment where David Lane taught very similar techniques to a classroom full of students without any prior preparation? Guess what, a lot of them had a positive experience. Many of us who have rejected Maharaji also have a positive experience from meditating.

So in view of this, can you tell us why Maharaji claimed to be the only person who can teach this knowledge? Can you explain why he, through his organisation, has always asked for, and continues to ask for, money? If he really wants to spread this knowledge, why not publish the techniques on his website, why not publish his video where he teaches the techniques (you know the one he used when he was too busy to conduct a knowledge session)? He would have a better success rate in getting people to meditate than he has now.

John not expecting an honest answer.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 14:40:10 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: A few thoughts for Dogg
Message:
JHB,

Great thought provoking post JH. You say,

Many of us who have rejected Maharaji also have a positive experience from meditating. So in view of this, can you tell us why Maharaji claimed to be the only person who can teach this knowledge?

Sorry, don't know. It might have something to do with keeping people meditating.

Can you explain why he, through his organisation, has always asked for, and continues to ask for, money? If he really wants to spread this knowledge, why not publish the techniques on his website, why not publish his video where he teaches the techniques (you know the one he used when he was too busy to conduct a knowledge session)? He would have a better success rate in getting people to meditate than he has now.

Preparation is very important. It takes one hour to make spaghetti sauce and six months to grow the tomato. I don't know if his sucess rate in getting people to meditate would be better. Like a farmer preparing the field people need to be prepared to receive Knowledge.

The thirst also has to be there. There must be some reason why K is given this way. This is the way it has been traditionally given in India for thousands of years. There might even be psychic reasons for doing it this way.

An experiment at a hospital in California proved that sick people who are prayed for get better faster than those who are not prayed for. I don't know why that works either.

Hope you consider this an honest answer.

-- Dep

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 17:50:29 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Thanks, DD
Message:
There might even be psychic reasons for doing it this way.

Well you certainly cleared that mystery up. I can see JHB is gonna have to think twice in future before imagining he can get one over on you, Dep.

Nigel

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 15:57:29 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: No, Dogg, it's NOT an honest answer
Message:
An honest answer would be an open answer. One where you laid all your cards on the table and speculated freely in 'both' directions. What you're doing is just typical apologist bullshit. When asked to explain a problematic point you only suggest explanations that you think are safe and favorable for your cult leader. There's a whole set of other explanations that you're well aware of -- one's that actually make a lot more sense than the thin soup you've cooked up on your cult leader's behalf -- but you're not honest enough to voice them.

No, there's nothing honest about you at all. You're like Vladmir Posner back in the seventies when he used to spin PR bullshit for the Soviet Union on U.S. talk radio. When asked a question calling for some speculation, he'd speculate alright. But only in favour of the U.S.S.R. Of course he was afraid for his family. What's your excuse?

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 03:06:55 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: No, Dogg, it's NOT an honest answer
Message:
Jim,

You didn't like the answer to JHB amd said I wasn't being honest. What do you think of these answers?

Many of us who have rejected Maharaji also have a positive experience from meditating. So in view of this, can you tell us why Maharaji claimed to be the only person who can teach this knowledge?

So keep on meditating JHB, doesn't bother me at all. I know other groups teach similar techniques like Yogananda and the SRF. M claims he is he only one who can teach these techniques, maybe that's what he thinks.

Can you explain why he, through his organisation, has always asked for, and continues to ask for, money? If he really wants to spread this knowledge, why not publish the techniques on his website, why not publish his video where he teaches the techniques (you know the one he used when he was too busy to conduct a knowledge session)? He would have a better success rate in getting people to meditate than he has now.

I guess M doesn't think there is anything wrong with money. I don't. People have to ready to receive K. I personally think that he would have a worse success rate giving it indiscriminately over the Internet. IMO Knowledge is a precious gift. You don't throw pearls before swine.

My excuse for posting here is that I value K and that I appreciate M for keeping me on the path. Why, do you think I'm afraid of being excommunicated?

-- Dep

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 23:21:06 (GMT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: A few thoughts for Dogg
Message:
JHB
Your post are continually intelligent.
JB
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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:09:02 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: A few thoughts for Dogg
Message:
As opposed to my behaviour:-)

Thank you,

John.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:00:24 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Nicely put, Dogg -- you really said it all
Message:
There is no world out there it exists only in our language.

It's really funny to hear your cult speak. Note, on the one hand, whenever the words are problematic for you guys (like when dealing with your cult leader's past promises, threats or claims to be God), you all say that words don't matter. They're not real. Who cares what he's ever said? But then you say shit like this.

Tell me, Dogg, if words don't matter but there's no real world outside of language, just how fucked up are you?

Most people who have recieved Knowledge are happy with it and enjoy it.

That's a lie and you know it. Most people who have received Knmowledge are embarrassed to even mention the fact -- IF they can remember it.

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 03:26:07 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Nicely put, Dogg -- you really said it all
Message:
Jim,

'There is no world out there it exists only in our language' means our self talk. What we say to ourselves about ourselves and life and others becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Do you believe that a lot of what happens to us we invite or create with our thinking?

'Most people who have recieved Knowledge are happy with it and enjoy it,' means just that. Most people who received K don't hang out here. I don't think with exex you are getting a fair representation. I meet premies on the street I haven't seen for years and they all look happy and with it.

Have you seen the way most people look on the street these days? There are a lot of sad looking puppies out there.

-- Dep

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 21:04:01 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Hilarious wiggling, Dogg
Message:
So you say that most people who ever got k are 'happy with it'. Obviously, that's a lie. So how do you try to get out of it? By saying:

I meet premies on the street I haven't seen for years and they all look happy and with it.

This is meant to be funny, right? Your changing 'happy with it' to 'happy and with it'? That's a joke, right?

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:38:01 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Nicely put, Dogg -- autosuggestion really works
Message:
All the lapdog has to remember is a variation on the old Emile Coue number:

'Every day, in every way, Maharaji is making me happier and happier ...'

Can't you just see that bliss-blanked expression ...?

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 01:42:38 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: mirror
Subject: You're so wrong Mr Mirror - and here's why
Message:
Aren't you being a bit presumptuous here? I never said I was not master poet or an anarchist. Why do you think it's me?

Look - I'm not into hate. Look at my web site - it does not portray hatred.

Before you accuse me of anything you really have to know who you're addressing. Nobody here on this forum actually knows me in person. Nobody here has met me and I am not part of any ex-premie scene. In fact, I think the term 'ex-premie' is ridiculous.

I have not confused any premies. Anything I have ever written here or anywhere has always been the direct result of my own experience. Does my heart rule my head? Yes it does. What's so strange about that?

What you may not know is that I actually started the first ever PREMIE Forum which was later taken over by another premie called Chris Dickey. I am not anti-premie. I like premies. I have had experiences from practising some meditation and while I'm not a fanatic about that, I do like to know people who can relate to such an experience. Therefore I do like genuine premies.

But are you a genuine premie, Mr Mirror? Or are you just here to pick a fight with people? You know, the people who are premies never post anything here and you know why? Because they are too busy getting on with their lives and practising knowledge. Do you ever meditate Mr Mirror? Have you experienced some nice, pleasant and subtle vibes from doing some meditation? Do you even know what sort of experience I am talking about?

There are many misconceptions here. I have been labelled an ex-premie and I have been labelled a hateful person. But nothing could be further from the truth. I am not a hateful and spiteful person. I rarely feel hatred for anyone. In fact, I have often been criticised for being too soft and forgiving by people who actually know me.

There is an old cliche which says - there's more to this than meets the eye. Do you really know what the plot is here? Do you understand what's going on. Perhaps it seems merely to be the rantings of a few over-emotional people who never practised knowledge. OK, I might be emotional but I have practised knowledge and I was a strong premie for over a decade.

So what's the score? Have you noticed how things have changed in Premieland? Have you noticed some changes in Elan Vital? And do you know why those changes came about? They came about because there is now free and uncensored expression by both premies and so called ex-premies on the internet.

One thing I've learned - you can't change people but you can change circumstances. That's probably the opposite of what you think. People change by their own free will, in their own sweet way and only if they want to change. No amount of bullying has ever changed anybody. So if there's all these over emotional people here like Jim, Anarchy, all those abbreviations and myself; you can't change any of us. It's hopeless to try. But circumstances and situations will change and for the better.

You see, I'm positive about all of this. I think that overall, things do change for the better in the long run. Sometimes it's a very long run. But progress and evolution is made and it's not always as we expect it to be but the trend is always up. Many years ago, they used to burn women at the stake if the local crops failed. We've come a long way since then and we will continue to move forward and upwards. Not in a fake spiritual trip up but a genuine up, where everyone moves together to a better future and a better standard of living. The trend is definitely up.

We are just watching the story unfold.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 23:25:43 (GMT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Dave, very impressive. (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 02:03:28 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Allow me to quibble, Dave
Message:
I think the term 'ex-premie' is ridiculous

What then do you call yourself (in the context of the cult, I mean)? A 'former-premie'? 'Post-premie'? 'Un-premie'? 'Decommissioned-premie'? One way or another, Dave, you're an ex-premie. If you were a premie and you're not anymore, you're an ex. It's logically unavoidable.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 02:15:52 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Allow me to quibble, Dave
Message:
Well, I never liked the term 'premie' and that's why I don't like the term 'ex-premie'. It's the labels I don't like since they set people aside into groups which I think are meaningless. I mean, a premie is no differnt to any other person and the same goes with an ex-premie. But I guess it is unavoidable to have these labels.

Personally, I thought the term 'devotee' was much better.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 02:20:07 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Allow me to quibble, Dave
Message:
Dave,

Don't be precious about this, please. We were premies. Premies, premies, premies. And unless you were some sort of strange cat that stood up and objected everytime someone called you that -- like maybe a hundred times a day -- I think it's a little late now to make a big deal out of it. And yes, Dave, the whole point was to set us aside from the rest of the world. We had the Nolidge of God, don't forget. Milarepa had to build three stone houses by hand, you know. Special, very special indeed.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:33:24 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Jim
Subject: Allow me to quibble, Dave
Message:
Jesus, Jim - I'd forgotten! Thanks for reminding me that I'm one of the chosen ones. Pity about the other six billion people who'll never be so lucky.

By the way, I sent you an email to that other address. Did you get it?

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 00:50:33 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: The Knowledge of all Knowledges.
Message:
Hey Mir,

If this is the knowledge of all knowledges, how come it doesn't work?

How come a little ditty from Sir Dave can cause confusion? Do you think that the disciples of Jesus would have had the same trouble if they'd been exposed to such rhymes?

Did anyone ever tell you you're in a dwindling little post-hippy cult?

It's time you took a look at yourself Mir, life is slipping by.

Anth the Fallen

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 23:38:09 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: But he gave the innocent no choices
Message:
because he couldn't come straight and say he was just a teacher or whatever, but he says say he's GOD.

Yes, they are a lot of crooks out there and Maharaji is the biggest, after all, we have a living lord here....ehemmm...

Sorry premie ji: I know your song.

Good luck!

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 23:06:59 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: Hypocrite
Message:
Sir Dave is supposed to take responsibility for the 'confusion' he caused premies, but you don't seem to think Maharaji has to take responsbility for absolutely any problems he has caused people by claiming to be god, demanding that people surrender their lives to him, and all his false promises about bringing peace to the entire world. That's hypocritical.

It is a matter of opinion as to whether you consider Maharaji a bastard or not, but I think any objective person wouldn't think he had too much integrity when he won't even admit his gross errors, nor even allow any form of open communication on the cult websites because what he is about is too fragile to allow for back-and forth communication, let alone communicate with the many of his former devotees, like Sir Dave, who feel he has ripped them off. The word 'coward' comes to mind, as does 'chickenshit,' 'immaturity,' 'magalomaniac' and the words 'out of touch with reality.'

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 03:16:11 (GMT)
From: A Master Poet
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: ... and coward
Message:
Yes, that seems to be right.

On reflection I prefer the rhyming couplet of the third sonnet of a little something I recently wrote to read...

Your silence now admits my words are true
- called 'Liar' to the world, you dare not sue!

The rhythm is better. The vowel can be dragged out nicely and a rhythmic pounding (as of nails in a coffin) can bring the work to a climax.

The crimes of the man formerly known as Prempal Rawat are crimes against the All; against humanity; and against individuals, their friends & families. Such an unholy trinity of malfeasance deserves the best indictment that poesy can deliver.

Mr Rawat is a Poet and will understand.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 23:02:17 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: To mirror
Message:
Mirror,

Congratulations on noticing that the poet has 'no appreciation for what M is doing.' Some reader with less perception than you may have missed that.

Sarcasm aside, I beg to differ with your assessment of Anarchist. You seem to see him as 'confused.' To me, he seems obviously quite clear about his feelings for M and not confused at all. Or are you using the term 'confused' in the special way that premies have redefined that word, meaning 'opposed to M.' or 'not feeling the bliss.' ?

I also beg to differ with your statement that M has brought much joy and happiness to a lot of people. I've known many, many premies in my time and none of the ones I know have any more joy and happiness than other people. Not a single one. Perhaps you know better premies than I do.

Rather than happiness, I think a basic characteristic that marks all the premies I have known is 'struggling.' They struggle to make Knowledge 'work.' And they know they fail most of the time, but still they won't give up. I am chagrined when I hear the typical premie complaint that the gratitude slips away, the focus gets lost, the ideal consciousness remains illusive, and they must keep practicing, keep listening, keep opening their closed hearts. And when they do feel a little normal human love in their hearts, it's all praise to some little man who doesn't know them from Adam. It's pathetic, truly and utterly pathetic what M turns people into.

Oh, and one more thing about premies. They're very good at telling other people things like 'you are missing the real meaning of life.' Such arrogant statements should never pass human lips. I suggest you look in the mirror.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 17:10:20 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: beautifully said Way (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:30:25 (GMT)
From: Anarchist
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Right on Way!
Message:
You summed it up pretty neat there. That's a one for the best of the forum if that's still going.
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 15:38:58 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: WELL SAID, WAY!
Message:
Way: Funny thing...... 'I' haven't met ANY premie that possesses any more love, happiness or joy than anyone else, either! Isn't that strange..... I wonder if ANYONE has met such a premie. I'd be very interested in meeting this inscrutible person....

You hit it right on the head!!!! In my humble opinion, real love causes ACTION. In fact, I don't believe one can feel that emotion and not ACT! Since I have never seen, don't now see and am unlikely to see (based upon past premie performance) ANY ACTION of a loving nature coming from the M camp, I have to conclude that they are NOT experiencing love.

BTW, mr mirror (if you happen to be reading this), MY personal definition of love is just as valid as yours (or M's)..... Don't even think for a single second that I (or anyone else here) is not 'feeling' real love. Sir Dave's actions/words portray his love for his fellow humans (whether he knows it or not) in trying to keep them from making the same life-wasting mistakes that he made (IMHO). If he didn't 'care,' he wouldn't bother, now would he?

BTW, once again mr mirror, my personal definition of love seems to have alot of merit, based upon what I have read in most so-called holy texts that you guys try to use to define your pathetic cult. Like most cults, you pull those words out of context and don't realize that it's the WHOLE package, not just a part of it, that is important! In other words, if you actually think that Jesus taught 'K,' then you had better read EVERYTHING HE SAID, in context, and DO EVERYTHING HE SAID (most importantly DO), too! Using books, the way premies do, to justify M's weird view of the world, I could prove beyond the shadow of any doubt that Dr Sigmund Freud taught K...... And we all know THAT's bull!

Sir Dave: please forgive me for using you as an example without your permission. I hope I didn't offend.... :-)

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 23:35:36 (GMT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: I know premies that...
Message:
I really know some premies that are the sweetest people.
That really try to be happy and loving and fair. And they aren't so nice when they've not meditated.
I have friends - non-premies - that comment to me how special these people are and how they walk the walk. In that they don't gossip, they are truly forgiving, and when they enter a room they shine. I say to my friends well, ya know so and so HAS meditated for over 25 yrs. on a regular basis - I'm sure that has something to do w/ it. Bec I know them when they don't and they can get cranky. I've seen it.
Sorry wanted to put my 2 cents in. (Most premies tho I stay clear of - so that we have that straight)
JB
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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:09:45 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: Ok, I know
Message:
JB: The real question is are they any 'better' at it than anyone else? I take what you said at face value..... you've actually observed it. BUT, I can also make the very same point about alot of religious people. I can make the same point about lots of people, in general. I've observed truely random acts of kindness all over the place (by people that were really smiling their butts off and having a great time doing it). If K were so special, you would think there would be an observed 'saintliness' around premies (not just a few, but a whole lot of them). That saintliness is something that I've never observed from premies. Yes, like you, I've met some really nice premies, but I think they would be just as nice if they did ANY form of meditation or ANY regular random-acts-of-kindness or giving-type discipline. Non-premies do these things all of the time and they are usually nicer people to be around than most premies that I ever met. Others look on those non-premies as 'special,' too. I certainly do... :-)

My wife has never meditated a day in her life, yet she (and I really do mean this) is someone whose life is as happy as any I've ever seen. Her attitude and love of life is awe inspiring, to me and others as well. No, I'm not 'projecting,' it's simple observation...... she's the finest person I've ever met! That is precisely the thing that attracted me to her in the first place. Did she know M? NOT! Does she need M or K to be happy? NOT! Is she a 'saint?' I certainly think so! :-)

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 19:04:26 (GMT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: I agree absolutely,Mike(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:28:59 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Ok, I know
Message:
My wife has never meditated a day in her life, yet she (and I really do mean this) is someone whose life is as happy as any I've ever seen. Her attitude and love of life is awe inspiring, to me and others as well. No, I'm not 'projecting,' it's simple observation...... she's the finest person I've ever met! That is precisely the thing that attracted me to her in the first place. Did she know M? NOT! Does she need M or K to be happy? NOT! Is she a 'saint?' I certainly think so! :-)

Mike,

Where did you find her? Are there any more there?

John the unattached.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:37:49 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Washington, DC of all places! (ot)
Message:
John: Sorry, but her sister (the next best, IMHO) got married a few years ago...... Am I lucky or what?

Actually, my brother-in-law would disagree with my take on 'next best,' but you know how 'projection' goes..... he he he he he :-)

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:50:30 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Washington, DC of all places! (ot)
Message:
Damn, I'll just have to take my chances with the countless beauties in Latvia.

I tried to reply to your last post about projection but I ended up getting confused about what projection was, so I guess you may have been right. Certainly your point about inaccurate observation was spot on.

John.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:38:01 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Of course I'm not offended (nt)
Message:
Of course I'm not offended.
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 23:32:21 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: I didn't think you would be :-) (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:19:20 (GMT)
From: mirror
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Relax Mike...don't take yourself so seriously
Message:
You don't know where I'm coming from so stop assuming you do. I'm not defining what love should be and as a matter of fact don't want to define it at all.

A lot of people have done incredibly dumb things for some very misguided reasons...the excuse being love in some way, shape or form. Take the anti-abortionists protecting the unborn children by killing the doctors. It is my humble opinion that Dave, and you for that matter, are just as misguided.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 23:28:46 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: YOU JUST HAVE TO FEEL IT, RIGHT?
Message:
Mir said:

I'm not defining what love should be and as a matter of fact don't want to define it at all.

You don't care where the feeling comes from or what it's, but you want to feel it. The blind following the blind? Those are the words of your master. Yuck.

I hope you wake up.

:)

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 22:36:21 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: The Misguider!
Message:
mirror: The only misguidance that has occurred is that which was given by a guide that knows not of what he speaks. I truely, and I most wholeheartedly mean this, believe that M has NEVER, I repeat, NEVER experienced that which he is attempting to guide you to/through! His selfish actions and total dedication to the ludicrously material lifestyle, to which he has become accustomed, speak VOLUMES in this regard.

What would you think of me if I offered to guide you on a hike through a wilderness that I've never seen? I think you know the answer to that question! Now THAT would be misguidance..... and that's what I think of M.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:53:54 (GMT)
From: mirror
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: The Misguider?
Message:
I truely, and I most wholeheartedly mean this, believe that M has NEVER, I repeat, NEVER experienced that which he is attempting to guide you to/through!

Well that's interesting Mike 'cause that's exactly the opposite to what I've seen over 25 years. He's been a step or two ahead of me describing the route the whole of the way. When I do get to those steps, it's clear he had already been there. Of course how do you know until you take a few steps yourself?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 01:12:07 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: The Misguider, you bet! (by your own words)
Message:
Mir: just for a moment, remember that most of us here have spent considerable portions of our lives devoting to this thing. I took the 'few steps' to which you refer. In fact, I took a damned sight more than a few steps (as did EVERYONE else on this site). You really must work on your memory, Mir..... I KNOW that others have told you this same fact repeatedly.

Next point.... 'a step of two ahead of you....'?????????? What the heck is this? If I'm going to take you on a trip through the Grand Canyon (or any other significant journey.... I think 'liberation' counts as a significant journey), I would have been all the way through long before I ever offered to show you! I would be thousands and thousands and thousands of steps ahead of you. So, what you are saying is that M is slightly ahead of you, thus having no real idea what the destination is? You really are a trusting soul, aren't you?

Wait a minute.... I thought he was god... he should already 'be there,' not just a step or two ahead of you. So who is yanking who's chain here?

BTW, can I ask another question? 'What does god need with a yacht?' Just interested.... AND Yes, I do believe that if there were a real god, he would answer that question the same way as I would for my child (and with just as much compassion and understanding, too).

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 01:49:50 (GMT)
From: Mirror
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: To mirror
Message:
I also beg to differ with your statement that M has brought much joy and happiness to a lot of people. I've known many, many premies in my time and none of the ones I know have any more joy and happiness than other people. Not a single one. Perhaps you know better premies than I do

Well I guess we DO know different people Way. And also perhaps you are projecting your negative perception of Knowledge onto the ones you know.

I didn't know real joy until I met premies. And after I received Knowledge I understood where that joy came from. (Sure Christians say the same thing but who cares.) And sure we struggle sometimes with priorities, after all premies have one more priority in their lives than other people, ie; practising Knowledge. But the fruit of that struggle I wouldn't trade for the world because it is worth it to me. So it's wasn't worth it to you. No biggy..move on.

Oh, and one more thing about premies. They're very good at telling other people things like 'you are missing the real meaning of life.' Such arrogant statements should never pass human lips. I suggest you look in the mirror.

Okay I'm arrogant. Who isn't...you? I can say with a high degree of certainty that there is a meaning to life. And I can say, again with a high degree of certainty, that Dave's emotion-charged crusade to be protector of the innocent is misguided.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 15:57:51 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Mirror
Subject: Way isn't a 'projector.'
Message:
Mirror: A projector is a mechanical device with an electic lamp inside it. Way is a human being...... there's a difference! I absolutely abhor the oft-stated (ad nauseum) idea that we are somehow 'projecting' our thoughts on others...... And NO, you can't look at the world through rose-colored glasses, either. All you will see is alot of red, nothing more!

What you should have said is that Way used personal observations to come to a conclusion that M is a fraud! That personal observations were used to conclude that premies aren't anymore joyous, loving or happy than anyone else. That personal observations were used to conclude that he/she wanted nothing more to do with this cult. It's called observing, analyzing, THINKING and taking action based upon same, mirror. Try it, you might like it!

BTW, alot of people happen to have shared those same personal observations. So, it would appear that the conclusions drawn from them are reasonably accurate. Judging from the shrinking size of the premie community, it would appear that those same personal observations (NOT PROJECTIONS) are being made by many others, as well. Using the same nonsense you spout about 'projecting,' I could easily make the point that YOU are projecting your own personal kindness and love (that you always had) on a TOTAL FRAUD; thus never seeing that he IS A FRAUD! Now, prove to us that YOU aren't projecting! And don't bother trying to convince me that brain-dead, no-thought, staring-into-inner-space meditation removes the ....ahem.... projections. It doesn't..... YOU are just projecting your THOUGHTS on what meditation is and/or does! See????????

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 17:48:06 (GMT)
From: Mirror
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Way isn't a 'projector.'
Message:
OK Mike JHB convinced me to give you a proper response.

The point about projecting was that ham (and you) projected...to a degree...your own empty view of M onto other premies. Projecting in this way is something that--even you yourself said in reference to your projections upon Maharaji--we all do. We do it to other people, to our pets, and to God. (I will point out you contradicted what you said in the first part of your post.)

So you try to minimise the relevance of Knowledge by projecting onto premies your own empty view of their experience. And you also try to minimise its relevance by pointing out the numbers who no longer practice. In both cases you use external measures, which are strictly circumstantial in nature. You just cannot tell what a person is experiencing by looking at them, and if you think you can you should join the circus. As for the question of numbers, you guys continually get side-tracked on this one: If his message answered your quest to know then, why would it matter if there was anyone else on earth who supported it?

Believe me, Maharaji answers a real thirst with real fulfilment. If you ever felt that before it is for you now just a memory, and as such as irrelevant as if it never happened. Nonetheless it is as real today as it ever was for the people who continue to drink from the well.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 23:04:04 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Mirror
Subject: mirror, mirror....
Message:
mirror: Please read my post again. I said, '....I COULD easily make the point that YOU are projecting...' Emphasis on the word COULD. No, I don't 'project' my feelings and thoughts on others. I O.B.S.E.R.V.E. Get it? I can tell that my wife is feeling great even though I may be miserable. If I projected, I would think she was miserable, just because I happen to be. No, this projection thing is silly. I don't 'project' human feelings and thoughts on animals, either. Bambi isn't real! Deer are FOOD (IMHO)! My cat has her own personality and likes to play, which she makes obvious if I only OBSERVE her for a minute. She can, also, make it quite apparent that she DOESN'T want to play..... again, through observation, NOT projection. In your haste to point out that I had apparently contradicted myself, you completely missed the point concerning 'observation.'

- Show me the 'good works' that have come from the 'love' that premies are supposedly experiencing. Let's see...... what did M do to DUO (the organization that was set up to funnel money to charitable causes and 'good works')? Why hasn't it ever been replaced? Why doesn't M use his considerable influence to get premies to do REAL SERVICE to those in need? I mean, if you are feeling all of this bundle of love, it should go without saying (it REALLY SHOULD)!

- Show me the peace that M has supposedly 'established' on this planet (like he said he would over 25 years ago). There hasn't been more peace since his arrival..... not one iota! If there were, it would be READILY apparent. It isn't..... I'm not projecting here, mirror.... I've observed the lack of peace first-hand!

- Show me a single (just one) person that has attained 'liberation,' as M promised for ALL well over 25 years ago. The only liberation that has happened is the liberation of your cash from your wallet. That, mirror, is OBSERVED FACT! I have yet to meet or hear of a single premie who was made (or is) god-conscious..... not a single one..... zero.... nada..... zilch. That, again mirror, is OBSERVATION not projection.

- Prove to me that premies are even slightly more joyous, peaceful or loving than the average person. If it were true, it would be EASY to OBSERVE. So far, my observations speak otherwise. These aren't 'projections,' they are simple and easy observations.

So, as usual, you miss the boat AND the point. I'm not a projector, nor am I a 'projection on a screen.' Just because I feel great doesn't mean that I think EVERYONE feels great..... EVER!

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:59:45 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Mirror
Subject: A lotus flower! Feeding itself from rotten waters
Message:
That is the true. Be like a lotues flower, m has said many times. Thanks but no thanks. I rather be just a simple human being. You think you are drinking water but it's poison.

We were there, all the exes, exactly where you are. Why you can't comprehend that????

I know, you are veryyyyyyy special, and you are still there. That is your thought and it's pure BS.

Try getting out and I assure you, you will like it. I feel more free now than I ever felt as a premie, and if I think that I have just few months as a premie and that as others say, it gets better, I cannot wait.

I love being an ex!!!! Love it!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 01:06:05 (GMT)
From: mirror
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: A lotus flower! Feeding itself from rotten waters
Message:
Well that's just great SB. I accept that. I'll accept that it isn't right for you. No judgements; no guilt. And I love being a premie. So why can't you accept THAT? I'll tell you why. Because in order for you to feel your freedom you must believe M is a total fraud. Of course you can't know for sure but you must believe it. And you have to come here and rant at people like me with the others to affirm your belief. You cannot just live and let live. Go ahead...try it! Prove I'm wrong.
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:14:21 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Mirror
Subject: Way isn't a 'projector.'
Message:
Mirror,

There is some truth is some of what you say, but you didn't answer the point about you projecting your desire for a loving master onto Maharaji, when Maharaji quite clearly does not fit the image.

John.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:24:27 (GMT)
From: mirror
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Way isn't a 'projector.'
Message:
He doesn't fit the image of a loving master based on your projections. Do you recognise this?

That he would show me the truth and continue to help me understood it over many years is the most loving thing anyone could have done for me.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:17:51 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: Way isn't a 'projector.'
Message:
Mirror,

Tell me something he has taught you in all these years apart from the techniques, and that there is something beautiful within. Answer this question first.

Has he ever looked personally at your progress and taught you what the next lesson is? Don't you think that it's strange that he hasn't?

Look, his teaching is a 'one size fits all' lesson. All of us tried to find the lesson that was personal to us in what he said. Some of us gave up, others, like you, continue to find something relevant to you. But ask yourself, is the last piece of wisdom you got from him any different to what he said 10 or 20 years ago?

He is not a teacher. He says the same thing over and over again. If that inspires you then you are clearly brainwashed.

How does it feel to be brainwashed?

John the formerly brainwashed.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:33:20 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Shaka-Ri
Message:
John: I'm not sure if you ever saw 'The Final Frontier,' but I wish that premies would watch it...... and learn how to ask a simple question.

Capt Kirk to fraud-god: '..... excuse me..... excuse me..... but what does god need with a starship?'

Of course, we could fill in 'starship' with multi-million dollar mansions, a fleet of rolls-royce cars, and airplane, a yacht, lots of land, gold toilet seats, a bookselling company and on-and-on-and-on.

It was one of the best lines I think an ex cult member could hear. It was HILARIOUS!

Assuming for the moment that any meditation actually does something, why are premies so afraid to think that they might be doing it all themselves and that a master was never required? Considering your point about M's endless drone of a few repetitive words (nothing new for 25 years), you would think that they would 'get the clue!'

Mike to fraud-god: '.....excuse me..... excuse me.... why haven't you told us anything new in 25 years? I thought you said that we were in a new phase.' 'Why isn't peace established, yet?' 'Why am I not liberated, yet?' 'Why did you kiss the sheep in Who is Guru Maharaj Ji?'

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 20:07:24 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: If you love somebody - set them free(nt)from Rawat
Message:
If you love somebody - set them free(nt)from Rawat
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 20:35:22 (GMT)
From: mir
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: If you love somebody - set them free
Message:
First of all I don’t think for a second you guys are doing what you are doing out of love for humanity.

Second, I partially agree with you. If someone continues to practise Knowledge without experiencing its inherent joy and liberating merits, they are better off to leave it. And you are right in saying that for those this applies to, the whole thing was probably oppressive.

What I do not agree with you about is that because you didn’t experience something positive as a result of practising it others must not either. That is extremely self-important and narrow-minded of you.

I tell you honestly, and with as much respect as I can for your personal experience, receiving Knowledge from Maharaji was the most positive and liberating thing I’ve ever done. I continue to experience every day I wake up the freedom he showed me within. And contrary to him being an idol I am forced to worship, he is a resource that I rely upon in my journey to inspire and clarify. My respect and gratitude to him is ENTIRELY motivated by that, and not because of any claims by anyone of who he is or isn’t supposed to be.

But I also understand that if you were to admit there really WAS something positive that people are experiencing it would be difficult for the egos of people like you to swallow.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 16:47:45 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: mir
Subject: Would you kis his feet again, Mir?
Message:
And contrary to him being an idol I am forced to worship, he is a resource that I rely upon in my journey to inspire and clarify.

Would you stand in line to kiss his feet, Mir?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:37:19 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: mir
Subject: If you love somebody - set them free
Message:
But Mir, IF THE MEDITATION WORKS FOR A PERSON IT WORKS WITH OR WITHOUT MAHARAJI!!!!! Can't you recognise this simple fact????????? Are you stupid?????

Look, Maharaji teaches a meditation that works for some people but he indoctrinates the student to believe that Maharaji is essential for the experience of meditation. In fact it would work for those people with or without Maharaji.

This is very simple. Why can't you understand it?

John.

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 00:49:06 (GMT)
From: mir
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: If you love somebody - set them free
Message:
It's not quite that simple John...in my experience. There are two pieces to the meditation puzzle. One are the techniques, and the other is, for lack of a better word, the thrust. The barrier between you and your existence is vast, though the experience does appear to be closer than it really is. You know what I mean? You get to the threshold and getting ready to cross and you say, “Well that was easy, why don’t I think about this”. And you are catapulted like a rubber band right back into your thought-stream before you even know it. And it seems the closer you get to stepping across that threshold the more taut the rubber band becomes.

So sure, anyone can now pull the techniques off the web thanks to the efforts of you guys. But what provides the thrust? For that the Master teaches a few tricks that work. It has to do with learning to surrender. To what, you may ask. Who knows? Who cares? I just know you just have to surrender to get across that threshold. Unless you surrender, there is just not enough thrust. And I might add, if you think you have crossed it without surrender, you are no doubt kidding yourself.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:35:09 (GMT)
From: mir
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Thanks for the clarification Mike
Message:
Gee, sorry Mike...er, uh...you really are...uh...a forceful and persuasive debater. I guess I'm going to have to go back and rethink my entire way of looking at life. I'm clearly no match for such a powerful and...er...self-assured mind. I admire that so much in a man.
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:42:19 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: mir
Subject: Thanks for the clarification Mike
Message:
Mir,

Mike's post was very incisive and well reasoned, and this is the best response you can come up with??? His point about you projecting onto Maharaji is in my view expremely accurate because it was exactly what I was doing when I thought I loved him. Now I cannot see a single redeeming feature in him, and at least I can be honect about his physical unattractiveness.

You see Mir, we have a big debating advantage over you - most of us here felt and believed exactly the same things as you for many years.

Maybe you could do better in responding to a reasoned criticism next time.

John not expecting a reasoned response.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 23:21:25 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Thanks, John
Message:
JHB: I was trying to make the simple point that just about ANY OBSERVATION, that doesn't agree with someone else's thought, can be referred to as 'projection.' I don't think 'projection' exists, at all. Improper observation, intentional lack of observation, false conclusions, bad reasoning, lying to oneself.... YES, but 'projection?' NO! I really dislike that word, when referring to people. It seems to fall into the same category as 'we're all just projections on a screen' and other metaphysical garbage.

I mean, think about it: If you are happy and you sit next to someone who is miserable and you look at them and think they are happy too, then are you 'projecting?' ORRRRR are you just 'intentionally not observing' and/or lying to yourself about the reality of the situation because you think it will be a downer if you really observe (or any of a million other reasons)?

Actually, I don't think that mirror is 'projecting' his basic 'goodness' on M, I really think he is just intentionally failing to observe or is lying to himself/herself (e.g. observed the reality of the fraud, yet doesn't care).

Ok, ok, I'll buy off on 'projection' as a PC term for 'lying to oneself' or 'intentional non-observation'....... he he he :-)

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 22:33:16 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: Why won't you answer my question, Mir?
Message:
Mir,

I've asked you a few times if you've ever posted here before and if so under what name? Why won't you answer? Surely you're not ashamed of your own .... ahem, 'clarity', are you?

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 01:11:19 (GMT)
From: mir
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Why won't you answer my question, Mir?
Message:
I did post under the moniker of 'A Premie' a couple of years ago. Good eye!
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 20:14:41 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: mir
Subject: Mir = A Premie = homophobe?
Message:
There are a couple of people who have posted as 'A Premie' - the most recent being an ex. The 'A Premie' who posted two years made some gratuitous homophobic comments which he/she may have come to regret...

Are you still happy with disclosing your former identity, Mirror, or shall I go scour the Forum III archives? (Jan - Feb, 1998)

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 20:57:48 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy..etc
To: A Premir
Subject: Or if that wasn't you...
Message:
There were actually several premies posting around that time and it is possible I am remembering the wrong one... (Don't have time to go searching right through the archives.) But if so, I apologize (correction: if you were using your real name I would apologize.)

But what I do remember for sure is that A Premie used to be a Mahatma.

And he/she posted stuff like this:

Devotion is true love, and true love never ends. As such it is the one window to eternity that we mortal humans have. So if it ended, it wasn't devotion - sorry Charlie. And it wasn't one way. He was talking to you but you weren't hearing. That's too bad. For those who have real devotion, they DO know eternity. For them there is *NOTHING* to compare, and it could never be dispuited in their heart of hearts. It is the Master who gives the gift of devotion, because his heart is strong enough to give never ending love without conditions. Look at his personality, his actions, or the people around him and you will be fooled. Look at his heart and you will see a love you can trust enough to give yours in return. In that act there is complete liberation.

Just curious, Mir, if you can step aside from your complete liberation for a moment:

How did you decide whether a person was ready or not for Knowledge?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 01:54:39 (GMT)
From: Anarchist
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Can't be much of a master then
Message:
If he can't even do a simple thing like show his devotees devotion. I mean, he said he could unzip the sky and poke his head out and give satsang and all but he can't even show a few open and sincere souls devotion.

No wait, I know, WE WEREN'T LISTENING. That's it and it's all our fault cos we were stuck in our minds and well, what's the point in us even living then since we tried for fucking decades to surrender ourselves to God in human form and it didn't work cos we were just too fucking in our minds man.

Huh, looks like the whole fucking universe is against us then when the Lord of the Universe can't even get thru to a handful of sincere seekers. I mean, he had several decades to get thru to us but we were just too much like crap premies.

Or is it that This Master is just one helluva fucking charlatan and con artist.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 15:31:16 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Anarchist
Subject: yes, Yes, YES!
Message:
Anarchist: It was 'good' for me, was it good for you?

Yes, the all-knowing, all-powerful, ever-present lord of the universe can create the universe and everything that inhabits it, but he CAN'T get through to a few, measly, seekers...... Looks like the 'one who is greater than god' has some major limitations! I mean, in over 25 years he hasn't 'liberated' anyone, at all! That's a pretty bad batting average (.000). If I were Buck Showalter, I'd fire him from my team..... Oh, wait a minute.... I DID! :-)

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:54:54 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: If he had just stopped there
Message:
Hi Nigel: I found your quote of 'a premie' to be interesting and SOOOOO true..... YES, he told the truth and here it is: '...For them there is *NOTHING*....' Now if he'd just stopped there, we would ALL agree with him..... he he he :-)
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 01:51:33 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: mir
Subject: Of course you did! So how can anyone trust you?
Message:
Mir,

Do you have any pride in what you say? Your ideas? Your values? If you do, I wonder why you would forsake the fine reputation you must have thought you were gaining with all 'right-minded people' (i.e. premies). Wouldn't you want them -- and us -- to be aware that all of these new comments were coming from the very same honest and intelligent person we'd come to know as 'A Premie'?

The problem I've got with you on this point, Mir, is that you have to admit you look like a little creepy now. Imagine that some guy's invited to a costume party. He shows up in a disguise and gets into an argument with some others there. A little while later he leaves but only to return with a new disguise. He then starts the argument all over again but never tell the others that, in fact, it's him again. In fact, when asked if he'd been there before he doesn't even answer at first. Ultimately, though, when pestered, he admits that it's him.

Tell me, please, what you would think of that person. I know what I would think but I'm curious what your opinion would be. Would you consider the person trustworthy? Honorable? Noble? Responsible? Or would you rather think of him as sneeky, dishonest and irresponsible? Hm? What would it be, A Premie a/k/a mir?

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 02:02:42 (GMT)
From: mir
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You're chasing your tail on this one Jim!
Message:
I have no problems with having changed my moniker. Especially when ex's posted under the same moniker to lampoon premies.

Nope, sorry Jim...don't feel sheepish, creepy or anything. Call me uncivilised but it's just not as big a deal as you're trying to make it out to be.

As for honor, nobility, and other high-falutin terms...it's really laughable hearing those terms come out of your mouth (so to speak).

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 02:09:45 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: mir
Subject: You don't LOOK like my tail, AP (a/k/a Mir)
Message:
Yes, yes, once again, a premie reveals his weak character. Come on, whoever-the-fuck-you-are-right-now, answer my question. That is, answer it if you've got the guts to. How would you feel about someone who changed disguises in the midst of an argument and didn't tell the people he was talking with even when they asked?

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 23:24:28 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: And joining the Q, another little question
Message:
If as you say he has a really special knowledge, some people think the knowledge of all knowledges, and he's say not greater than god, but something special, unique, noone else quite like him then you're talking something ultra-attractive. He has had supreme control of his organization for thirty years, why has he been so unable to get his message across? In the whole of east london you'd be lucky to fill a very small room in my local pub with his followers.
We're talking the package of all packages here, a salepersons dreams, backed up by humungous amounts of cash, why has he been such a dismal communications failure?
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 01:28:36 (GMT)
From: mirror
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: And joining the Q, another little question
Message:
Underlying your question is what I believe is the wrong criteria for measuring his success, ie; he is successful if by March 7, 2000 a critical mass of people embrace his message. Besides being a measure of, as you say, his communication abilities and the attractiveness of the subject matter, it would also provide safety in numbers...in case you couldn't tell for yourself.

Let me ask you, did you embrace it at one time? If you did, why? Because it was being embraced by enough of a critical mass of the people around at the time to make it acceptable to you? If his message answered your quest to know then, why would it matter if there was anyone else on earth who supported it?

I will say this: if he said in 1973 he would establish peace on earth in 20 years, he clearly misread the situation. So he misread the situation! And you lost faith in him because it turned out he was not infallible. As for his core message, it is as true today as it ever was, ie; if it is peace you want it can be found within.

So what's your highest priority ham, the truth or being on the winning team?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:14:29 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: OK, heres a little background
Message:
'Let me ask you, did you embrace it at one time?'

Knowledge, bigtime, maharaji, I was open to the idea, but it never clicked.

'If you did, why? Because it was being embraced by enough of a critical mass of the people around at the time to make it acceptable to you? If his message answered your quest to know then, why would it matter if there was anyone else on earth who supported it?'

(1) To be able to contact the feeling of one life all interconnected, but especially, on some level interconnected by love, that I had experienced, a whole body experience of truth, while on acid, smoking dope & and getting off on that grateful dead vibe. Having said that there were implications of constant change.

(2) Maybe this is another concept, but compassion. We're talking an experience that contacts the essence of it all, a feeling it's impossible to know unless you were in it, surely as many people as possible should have an opportunity to know that it was there.

Surely the concept was 'by his grace'.

'I will say this: if he said in 1973 he would establish peace on earth in 20 years, he clearly misread the situation. So he misread the situation!

Mirror if YOU were running a religious organization would you turf out a lot of by then damaged people with minimal support and sod the consequences, 'So he misread the situation!' You leave out the after effects. What are these people, just disposable, sink or swim?

I never had faith in him, had faith in knowledge, was always open to the possibility of faith in him but it never happened.

'As for his core message, it is as true today as it ever was, ie; if it is peace you want it can be found within.', but you leave out the fine print, but only through him.

'As for his core message, it is as true today as it ever was, ie; if it is peace you want it can be found within.'
RRRRRRRRadical concept, bet noone ever thought of that before. Comeon, no special knowledge, no at least a little bit better than everyone else master, nothing else at all, c'mon miror you can't be for real.

'So what's your highest priority ham, the truth or being on the winning team '

You've obviosly never been in a winning team?
Both, the truth & winning.

You seriously don't care about anybody else at all, I don't believe you?!

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 19:38:22 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Response to 'background' mir? (nt)
Message:
mm
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 08:22:01 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: You COMPLETELY missed my point
Message:
I'll try again. The point of my question is not about numbers in themselves specifically, it was about the lure, the attractiveness of someone so special with something so special.

You go to a party, ever noticed how the good communicators, the most attractive people, ALWAYS have more people around them, people love being around people who radiate life, love, energy whatever.

I'm asking you why you think in this world party, maybe the most attractive person in the party, who by the way is giving away for free to everyone at the party, the greatest present possible, is standing by himself in the corner?
Why isn't he irrestible?
Remember wer'e talking totally radiatingly unique, with the greatest gift anyone could receive.

Imagine you're answering not an ex, but someone completely in love with knowledge who is puzzled.

We're talking perfect master with more money by far than any before, in an age of mass communication techniques.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:41:00 (GMT)
From: mirror
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: And you missed mine
Message:
The mere fact you compare him to the center of attention at a party shows that think his message should be such-and-such and he should be such-and-such. EXPECTATIONS AND ASSUMPTIONS HAM!

Sometimes the best communicators at parties are the ones quietly discussing interesting topics in the corner. The center of attention is often an egotistical loudmouth.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:27:12 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: And you missed mine
Message:
'The mere fact you compare him to the center of attention at a party shows that think his message should be such-and-such and he should be such-and-such. EXPECTATIONS AND ASSUMPTIONS HAM!'

Actually I thought I was using an analogy, you know, like that fella does, yknow just occasionally.
By your definition, doesn't your next comment fit into the assumptions & expectations box?

'Sometimes the best communicators at parties are the ones quietly discussing interesting topics in the corner. The center of attention is often an egotistical loudmouth. '

You need to start going to some decent parties by the sound of it, I suggest turning the music up a bit louder that should drown out the egotist, you might have to shout a bit, but hey you can't have everything.

Oh by the way, it's your turn to answer my question, I've spilled my underlying concepts, what about showing yours.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 01:09:38 (GMT)
From: mir
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Pretty lame hamzen (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 12:04:54 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: You COMPLETELY missed my point
Message:
C'mon, ham. We live in an age of darkness. Only a few, those as wise as mir, who have eyes to see, are drawn to the lotus feet of the little man in the corner. The rest of us, like maybe 99.9 percent, are just too blind to see.

Seriously, you make a good point. The amount of people drawn to Maharaji does seem miniscule when you consider that he's supposed to be bearing the most precious gift, from God above, that's ever been offered to the planet. It makes you wonder why God created such an overwhelming amount of ingrates, and so very, very, few grateful ones. I mean, why even bother?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:56:45 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: A bit sad if you ask me.
Message:
'Only a few, those as wise as mir'.

Say we take Mir's whole angle at face value, would you feel comfortable as a lover if the MASTER, (or master connector if you're feeling generous), really didn't give a monkey about 99.9 percent of the population, people who will never even get to know what was right under their noses, something so precious, it's hardly an encoraging sign. The elite super tribe, the select of the select, even among the select, the chosen ones, it's so the dodgy right wing end of new age. Creepy, I'm OK, nothing else matters.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 04:23:01 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: 'he was not infallible' i.e. he was fallible
Message:
'I will say this: if he said in 1973 he would establish peace on earth in 20 years, he clearly misread the situation. So he misread the situation! And you lost faith in him because it turned out he was not infallible.'

It was 1970 and he DID say it.

Would you agree with the following:

1. He was fallible, he made a mistake.
2. Therefore he IS fallible still.
3. He is not all-knowing and therefore is NOT God in human form.
4. But he DID say that he is Hari (God) in human form, etc. etc., so he makes very big mistakes!

Would a 'fully realized' or 'totally enlightened' person make such big mistakes?

Who do you think he is? Is he God in human form, a demi-God, a fully enlightened person, partially enlightened person, just another guy, or what?

If he is not God in human form, how could he have the power to show God? If he does not have this power, than why is it necessary to 'receive Knowledge' from him?

What mistakes do you think he is making now?

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 09:34:21 (GMT)
From: Observer
Email: None
To: G, SB, etc.
Subject: 20 years was never mentioned, by the way
Message:
This is something you've added to a famous quote. Just mentioning this in the interests of accuracy.

By the way, check into the word establish sometime. Establish a beachhead...establish a foundation...establish parameters...establish some guidelines for your kids, etc. That's its common usage though there are other, more sweeping definitions of it.

The idea that everybody or most people have to be doing something for it to qualify as 'established' or brought into existence is pretty shaky.

If Eric Clapton, who recently established a clinic, had branches of his clinic in 81 countries, you'd probably have no trouble conceding that Eric had indeed 'established' his work on Earth, now would you? Even if you didn't like Eric. In this context, it doesn't mean finish...it means START.

And now...back to your regularly scheduled pogrom...uhhh, program.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 23:36:23 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Observer
Subject: 20 years WAS MENTIONED, by the way
Message:
OB: You have obviously not been around that long! There wasn't a premie in the early 70's that couldn't recite it (and the '20 year question' that followed) to you verbatim! GOD is HERE.... GOD is going to establish peace in less than 20 years..... AND I'm lucky enough to be here to see it!

Selective memory is a sign of lying to oneself..... think about it!

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 14:08:57 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Observer
Subject: 20 years? No, no, no, no, no, very soon, very soon
Message:
During a festival held in India in 1970, Maharaji announced his 'Peace Bomb' by saying:

'I declare I will establish peace in this world'.

Asked whether this would be in the next 20 years, he replied:
'No, no, no, no, no, very soon, very soon.'

(Who is Guru Maharaj Ji, p99)

So what does 'very soon' mean? MORE than 20 years? Sure, and I've got a bridge to sell you.

The word 'establish' in this context means the following:

To bring about; generate: as in 'establish goodwill in the neighborhood' (from www.dictionary.com)

The way you put it, as in 'establish a foundation' or 'established a clinic', you try to make it seem like 'peace' is some organisation (or cult), say like Elan Vital. That is bizarre cult speak. Besides, Elan Vital is not established throughout the world, what about China, the Muslim world, etc.?

Further, you imply:
'establish' means 'to set up'
'start' also means 'to set up'
'start' also means 'to begin'
so 'establish' doesn't mean finish

Therefore, if only a few premies sometimes feel a little peace of mind from meditating, that means he established peace in this world.

How weak. You are just playing with words.

peace n.
1.The absence of war or other hostilities.
2.An agreement or a treaty to end hostilities.
3.Freedom from quarrels and disagreement; harmonious relations: roommates living in peace with each other.
4.Public security and order: was arrested for disturbing the peace.
5.Inner contentment; serenity: peace of mind.
(www.dictionary.com)

The word 'peace' in this context means ALL the above.

Even if you artificially limit 'peace' to mean 'inner contentment...', consider the following:

Premies often do not feel serene.
The percentage of people who are premies is very small.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 12:28:48 (GMT)
From: The Independant
Email: None
To: The Observer
Subject: 20 years was never mentioned, by the way
Message:
Let's face it , Maharaji's mission is failing and fading. It's time to grow out of gurus and come into a new unity as a human race.

We see clearly and independantly that anyone dreaming of the fatguru being universally recognised as the saviour is just indulging in a stupid pipedream perpetrated by a bunch of diehard, duped devotees.

Time for a change premies. Get back to earth and reclaim your lives.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 03:23:19 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: You got it ALL WRONG!!!
Message:
Mirror said:

Underlying your question is what I believe is the wrong criteria for measuring his success, ie; he is successful if by March 7, 2000 a critical mass of people embrace his message.

What do you mean by that?

Besides being a measure of, as you say, his communication abilities and the attractiveness of the subject matter, it would also provide safety in numbers...in case you couldn't tell for yourself.

What do you mean with that? Just because a package is attractive doesn't mean that there is something in it. It sounds good, but is it true? NO!

Let me ask you, did you embrace it at one time? If you did, why? Because it was being embraced by enough of a critical mass of the people around at the time to make it acceptable to you? If his message answered your quest to know then, why would it matter if there was anyone else on earth who supported it?

Just because is wrong to deceive people. That is why we care. Why he doesn't come straight from the start and tell people what is going to happen to them from the introductory videos until they received K? Because if he did, if he was honest there would be no followers.

He presents the techniques of K as something unique, but is it? No. History doesn't lie.

His lies are supported by the followers. He lives in his little protected bubble sorrounded by people like you, willing to support his lies, just because you want a guru. How selfish that is... I know that selfishness because i had it. I used to say exactly the same: What is wrong with doing what we -premies-like to do; or, I love Maharaji and I don't care about anything. Well, everybody should care: After all, we are talking here about GOD, a false one, that's. The miscalculator...the human God who does mistakes.

People have go literally nuts for not being able to 'grow' in the experience of K, simply because of the horrendous way he teaches it. Is all about him. You were chosen. You are so especial...You better look again; I have been where you are and I am happy to tell you that you got it all wrong, as the rest of the premies.

Life is passing by...and someday, I hope that you wake up. It's such a relief, believe me. You think you know freedom? Funny you had it and gave it away. Is your decission. If I was you I take it back: It's yours, it was all along yours.

You follow a guy who sold you the idea that adoration of an idol is the way to live: You know ...very well that the WAY to realize knowledge in his book is only, ONLY through devotion to him! Would you share what Maharaji means to you, honestly? You don't have the guts to even say it, I bet you. Because it's embarrasing, even in private, the thoughts that some premies can have, isn't? I don't know who he is but I will follow him to the end. Whow. Is that love or is that the fanaticism HE taught us? Yes. We learned it from the cult.

I will say this: if he said in 1973 he would establish peace on earth in 20 years, he clearly misread the situation. So he misread the situation! And you lost faith in him because it turned out he was not infallible. As for his core message, it is as true today as it ever was, ie; if it is peace you want it can be found within.

How can God misread a situation? Why God needs help? So, he is just a guy who thought was God, but you still feel for him...Ohh
The guy brainwashed you, but is okay with you. Kissing his feet and all, but you love him. The servant of the Lordy, something like that. Semi-God. You are a true devotee: You passed the lila... Give me a break!

So what's your highest priority ham, the truth or being on the winning team?

We have both Mir, sorry:

The truth and the winning team. The truth is Maharaji is not the living lord or God. We know and accept the truth about him, you don't. Winning team, because we, the ones that left him have regained individual freedom, and neither of the premies or Lard have it. Prisioners of the same lie, that to enjoy life you need a guru for the rest of your life. He scammed all of us good Mir, face it! Lies; lies; lies...

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 23:15:30 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Might I add to your excellent post, SB ?
Message:
Mir: Add this to what SB said so well. I know that I've said this before, as have many others here, but maybe you never saw it.

You say he is fallible (he DID say he would establish peace in LESS than 20 years from the time he said it....73 is about right, I think).... OK, that 'fallibility' means he is not god.... period! Wouldn't you agree that god is infallible according to every known text on the issue. Religions don't always agree, but on THAT point there is PERFECT agreement!

Now here's the funny part, mir: If he had not presented himself as the living incarnation of the lord of the universe, I WOULD NOT have given him or his organization the time of day. Got it???? 'I' was looking for THAT incarnation, NOT a lowly meditation teacher (whatever the heck that is). SO..... HE LIED to get me to follow his claptrap. It's REALLY as simple as that. You guys can talk about his 'evolution' till your faces turn blue..... HE LIED and an awful lot of folks fell for it. Now that he is no longer god, I'm 'calling' him on it! He's a liar! He's a cheat! He's a thief and a con-man of the lowest order. Thief??? Did I say thief??? YES.... money/service obtained through fraud (e.g. saying he was the LORD) makes it theft!

Get it, Mir???? He said he was god! God-incarnate is WHO most of us were looking for! HE LIED to get our devotion (or should I say money)! Period! Nothing left to say!

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Date: Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 01:45:57 (GMT)
From: mir
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Listen mikey-boy
Message:
First, your assumption God never makes a mistake is erroneous. Case in point...the dinosaurs.

Second, you didn't know what God was then, and you don't know what God is now. Agreement by a bunch of religious textbooks doens't tell you what God is. If you know what God is, only then are you qualified to say what he is not. You my friend do not qualify. So you are in no position to say that Maharaji lied. Get it?

Third, Maharaji was not marketing his offering as, 'Come to me because I'm God.' He said...and you know this is true...'Come to me and I will give you peace'. All of the confusion in your head about whether he is or is not God is just that...confusion. Clarity would have been to take Knowledge and do with it what he asked you to do...ie; practise it. Stay inspired. Discover the relationship between meditation and service. Discover the value of the Master in the whole thing.

But no, peace wasn't enough for you. You wanted some assurance you were on the winning team.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:53:27 (GMT)
From: mirror
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: You got it ALL WRONG!!!
Message:
How can God misread a situation?

Are you familiar with the famous quote of Jesus when on the cross, 'Father why have you forsaken me'. What does this imply to believers of Christ? It implies there's a lot of things about the man that doesn't fit the expectation. That said, over 2000 years Christians have warmed up to what would have clearly been a point of confusion for the followers at that time.

PLEASE ADMIT TO YOURSELF ONE THING!! You do not know what God is, what he's like, his plans, or his methods.

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 08:52:21 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: Mir: You didn't get it: GET LOST!
Message:
lIER!
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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 04:55:13 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: IS HE GOD FOR YOU OR NOT??
Message:
Mirror wrote:

How can God misread a situation?

Are you familiar with the famous quote of Jesus when on the cross, 'Father why have you forsaken me'. What does this imply to believers of Christ? It implies there's a lot of things about the man that doesn't fit the expectation. That said, over 2000 years Christians have warmed up to what would have clearly been a point of confusion for the followers at that time.

PLEASE ADMIT TO YOURSELF ONE THING!! You do not know what God is, what he's like, his plans, or his methods.

:-)no, but do you?? Tell me about it! Please! I am a curious person, like all women. I'm all ears.

The point is not if a believe in a power greater than myself, the point is: Is Maharaji God or not, to you? NO. Does he think he is God, at least, on stage, for the 'customers' -how now premies are called lately in the Visions catalog? Maybe too in his very private life. Both. What do you think? Is he God, like Christ, your Lord or not? Please answer me. I asked you some questions and you did not answer them. I understand, maybe you are writting to much. I like what somebody said in a message of this thread that what Maharaji teaches a 'one to fit all' kind of teaching. Many personal interpretations and one truth: A fake Lord!

When I see God I'll tell you, maybe never happens, but for sure Maharaji is not God. If he ever was, was but in my imagination. Because he implied in many of his statements many, many times over the years, that he was, and you cannot deny it. ;)

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:35:42 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: What are you implying?
Message:
Are you saying that Maharaji is like Jesus?

Are you saying that he is God incarnate?

Do YOU know what God is, what he's like, his plans, or his methods? Is God a he? Is there something that God is like? Please enlighten me.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:27:44 (GMT)
From: m
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Not implying anything
Message:
Take what I asked on face value. If there was ''saviour'' who knows enough about the topic to know what he would be like?
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 23:08:53 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: Do you think Maharaji is the Savior and Lord?
Message:
Do you think Maharaji is the Savior and the Lord?
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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 23:28:51 (GMT)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: G
Subject: Don't hold your breath for an answer....
Message:
G: They bypass this question with their razor-sharp cat-like reflexes..... BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.....

I'll tell you why they won't answer.... because they are afraid. They are afraid to say 'yes' because they know it's a lie. They are afraid to say 'no' because they think, YES THINK, that if M really is god, then they are castrating themselves on his alter. What a bunch of very confused, very fearful people! At least in our day, we would literally shout it from the rooftops (and DID)! They think they're devoted and have faith..... bull-hockey!

It's a good question G, unfortunately they never conquer their collective fear and answer it! tsk, tsk, tsk..... :-)

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 04:20:42 (GMT)
From: referee Hal
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: S.B. wins with a knockout!!! (nt)
Message:
f
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 15:29:32 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: referee Hal
Subject: ROFL (nt)
Message:
n
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 01:58:40 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: Okay, A Premie (a/k/a Mir)
Message:
I will say this: if he said in 1973 he would establish peace on earth in 20 years, he clearly misread the situation.

I won't get into how idiotic your argument is (hint: very). I'll just say this. I dare you to come out from hiding, drop your cowardly masks, and sign your real name to this criticism of the Lord of the Universe (short, fat, greasy edition)!

Of course you won't do it. No premie on earth who ever wants to go to another program would blatantly criticize their cult leader like this. But, hey, maybe I'm wrong. Prove me wrong, AP.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 09:46:35 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: the RIGHT criteria for measuring his success
Message:
Is the mass of disgruntled premies!

That's why Mr Rawat is having a problem these days. And there is no way back, no seminars and teamwork with himself will do the magic trick.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 02:08:28 (GMT)
From: mir
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Okay, A Premie (a/k/a Mir)
Message:
I'll keep mum on my identity for reasons of my own. Having said that, I would have no problem saying he misread the situation. I think he believed it was possible, perhaps based on the momentum; based on the times...who knows. But I have no qualms in recognising his prediction clearly was not correct.
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 02:16:13 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: mir
Subject: Why should anyone believe you?
Message:
Mir,

If you say that you'd have no problem telling Maharaji that he 'cearly misread the situation' when he promised to save the world back in '73, at a very minimum you'd ahve to agree that you'd be exceptional amongst premies. Or do you think that that would be an easy criticism to levy at Maharaji for other premies?
I say that everything abotu the cult just shouts out that the opposite is true. You guys aren't even allowed to praise him in public (without prior authorization and a well-rehearsed script, that is). So the idea that any premie -- even you -- would have the guts to slag him like that to his face, well it's simply unbelievable.

But tell me why I should think otherwise. What's so unique about you that makes you the one premie in the whole world willing to stand up to the Lord of the Universe and tell him how sadly mistaken he was about, well, about his very own universe, I guess?

You don't even have to guts to post under your name. Hell, you don't even have the guts to keep one name here, even a fake one.
Whty should anyone believe you about anything?

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:59:04 (GMT)
From: mirror
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Whether you believe me or not...
Message:
is of little consequence to me. But while you're asking such questions, ask yourself the same question about the unsubstatiated allegations against M that you guys promote as gospel.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 04:00:09 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: Typical dumb thing to say, Mir
Message:
Mir,

You have no credibility. Not only do we not know who you are but you tried to trick us into thinking you were someone different than the idiot we came to know before as 'A Premie'. But, beyond that, you're not claiming anything to be believed.

Others, on the other hand, have made some extremely damning allegations about Maharaji. They're factual and they're often corroborated by others here. Maharaji refuses to answer them. At a certain point the burden of proof falls on him. Yet he refuses to answer.

Any right-minded person would agree that he's long ago forfeited any 'presumption of innocence'. But you don't care about that. You're in a cult, right? You're more committed to simply saying something -- anything -- instead of thinking outside the bounds of where you're allowed to go. Too bad. It makes you look so pathetic.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 17:41:03 (GMT)
From: Nigel
Email: fitzroy@liverpool.ac.uk
To: Jim
Subject: I'm not so sure, Jim...
Message:
I would say Mr/Ms Mir/Premie was making a pretty BIG claim when he/she/it said: 'Devotion is true love, and true love never ends. As such it is the one window to eternity that we mortal humans have... ...For those who have real devotion, they DO know eternity. For them there is *NOTHING* to compare, and it could never be dispuited in their heart of hearts. It is the Master who gives the gift of devotion, because his heart is strong enough to give never ending love without conditions. (copyright, A Premie, 1998)

I would say there is an unmistakeable implication here, namely: that only by loving Mr Rawat lots and lots and LOTS can 'we mortal humans' (is there another kind?) hope to escape our miserable fate as worm-food and join the Arti-strumming, carpet-chewing chosen few in the everlasting, infinte realms of eternal eternity... or something.

Funny how Mir was saying higher up in this present thread that he/she does NOT see this all-knowing, all-powerful being, this holder of the keys to the Kingdom, this figurehead to whom one must DEVOTE etc., as 'an idol to be worshipped'...

Shurely shome mishtake...(hic)

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 00:57:59 (GMT)
From: mirror
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Did I say that?
Message:
Bloody marvellous! Wonderful stuff. I could have been an apostle.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 23:13:48 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Thanks for finding that, Nigel
Message:
Mir, did you really say that? And did you really also say more recently that Maharaji wasn't worshipped like an idol? No wonder you changed your name and tried to hide the fact.
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 23:22:19 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: mirror
Subject: What! Gospel?
Message:
You defensive points are getting weaker and weaker. Why not just leave and never come back.

Having been there and now here allows me to know what are the effects of fanaticism. You words -you reasoning- show the signs that you are fanatic, as we were once, 'there', in his world, as somebody said before of you on this thread.

A fanatic is a person inspired by a deity, frenzied, marked by excesive enthusiasm and intense UNCRITICAL DEVOTION, as defined in any good dictionary. LOL I was a fantic.
Why do you have any need to put exes down? I don't like that. We are just talking, right? You put us-me-down just because you hear the truth, about who your guru is? He was our guru, but no more, and we like it that way. But you, here? What are your motives? To feel strong, trying - just trying - to make fun of us, fallen angels? LOL. Trying because, there are no reasons there for you to laugh at us. LOL

It seems something is stirring inside you, and that's normal, because the real you wants to listen OPENLY and the one Maharaji frabricated doesn't. Okay, you come because?... Do you come here because of the 'fight speed' you get when defending the name of your beloved guru? You must feel so superior and important I bet: FIGHTING FOR THE NAME OF THE LORD!! These people, the nerves they have! ~We~ The ones that where on your side of the street, remember. I am not against you but against your beliefs, which I happen to know so well. Why don't use reason? Perhaps that is one more way how the guru robbed has robbed you, to be critical thinker. I encourage, if you haven't, to take some Logic classes. Logic shows you what is a true statement. Words put together mean something that can be a true statement or not. Well, can you then follow the reasoning going on here? IMO, you don't. LOL This is not a tennis match, you know? Just trowing the ball, but aimlessly, saying whatever, just to say something...To say we are a bunch of...whatever...maharaji's statements have been false from the start and he's still doing it!! I am a new ex. Remeber? I was involved in my community big time! Who's confused? Is all a joke. Go home now, all is just fine. Don't believe there is such a thing as rotten vegetables, and if the stirring starts, that is normal. It will pass. Try it!

I don't like that you call us fools, as if you could say 100% certain that all information given is incorrect.

Investigate. Is all it takes, and some free time, of course.

Best wishes

S

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 20:17:17 (GMT)
From: DOD
Email: None
To: Anarchist
Subject: The not master poet
Message:
NO KIDDING--but seriously, do you think he really cares? He can't afford to examine himself too closely.

I think he truly believes he deserves all the love, servitude and cash he receives and then some.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 18:07:42 (GMT)
From: The stinking Rat is deaf
Email: None
To: Anarchist
Subject: and doesn't hear your poetry (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 12:39:47 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Anarchist
Subject: You sound angry and I don't blame you
Message:
You are not alone. I think he is repugnant too!
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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 18:55:36 (GMT)
From: Anarchist
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: You're dead right, I am
Message:
Spare a thought for those still caught. Spare a thought for the lives gone to waste. Spare a thought for those honest and sincere people who've given their lives to this charlatan and who are trapped by their loyal duty to a fake who they think is real.

Their sincerity has made them easily manipulated.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 00:08:19 (GMT)
From: Remy
Email: None
To: Anarchist
Subject: You're dead right, I am
Message:
'Their sincerity has made them easily manipulated.'

That is such a chilling and deeply sad statement.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 20:41:09 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Anarchist
Subject: You're dead right
Message:
Sincerity & naivete, without us being that gullible he'd have been stuck somewhere he couldn't wait to leave.
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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 19:20:34 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Anarchist
Subject: Rawat laughs all the way the bank
Message:
Rawat laughs all the way the bank.

Anarchist -

your name: 'an' (against) 'archos' (power) holds a clue for me.

the anger is real, and the power we put into the Maha's hands was real.

He took it and used it. Still does. Probably still will.

OK, we were lucky enough to learn from our mistakes and get out.

But to a rationalist who has never been fool enough to give themselves away in the way that we did, it looks like our anger is really directed towards ourselves - WE were the suckers who got ourselves mixed up in the MUTUAL con.

The mark rarely forgives the con-artist. The con-artist, however, just looks for more marks ...

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 04:55:23 (GMT)
From: I spy
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: The Smart Card Project has been presented at ...
Message:
The Smart Card Project has been presented at video events.
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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 06:50:57 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: I spy
Subject: WHAT IS THIS ?
Message:
I guess premies are now so stupid thye need this! Right?

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 19:56:20 (GMT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: WHAT IS THIS ?
Message:
Sounds like a card where for your convienience you could prepay addtendanc etc and just get it deducted form your card later when you attend. It allows the venor (EV) to manage your cash in advance and you can see how that would benefit a premie or a rawat. If this is the case then 4 months later they could ask for an extra 'donation' as so many extra needs came up - It sounds like a more money scam repackaged in a were are doing you a favor carton.
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 00:04:34 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: money scam as 'we are doing you a favor'
Message:
Oh yes, I can hear the EV honchos: 'See how we're making things so convenient for you, premie ji? No more writing checks every time you attend. Now the Master can get accurate feedback on how things are going, which He needs (even though He's all-knowing!). Now He can monitor your progress.'

Sounds like they don't want anyone slipping in without paying. It may be also to keep track of who's being a good little premie, attending regularly. Just think premie ji, now Big Brother (Maharaji) is watching you, now Sant Claus knows if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake and attend (and pay) regularly.

Also, if premie ji prepays for a number of video programs, they might as well attend, right? They're making a 'commitment' by buying these Smart Cards.

I wonder if they will use this with aspirants to see if they've attended (and paid?) the required number of times to get the free (ha ha ha) Knowledge of all Knowledges. Well, I guess this would be easier than spying on the aspirants.

On the Elan Vital site, they claim that 'Admission to events is free of charge.' This is getting to be misleading (if not outright false) advertising.

Saying that 'Knowledge' is free (well, he used to) is like saying that the engine that comes with your car is free.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 00:34:29 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Those dancing hamsters are back
Message:
Those dancing hamsters are back again - waiting to attend to your every need.

click here to go to the hamster house

and join in the dance!

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 14:30:44 (GMT)
From: I've been a bad premie
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: and didn't attend the InsigtsŪ seminars ....
Message:
I guess this is the day I blew it, and fell from my saintehood ... or just another 'drip'?

Here's the documentation I've received from Claude Arheix in 1996. He was one of the head honchos of EV here at that time.

Lots of the active and non active premies have been offered this stuff, and passed a 'test' to show them how they needed to do this in order to become 'good premies'.

Some participants on the French forum have been recruited for those seminars, and one of them went to one.

I can't imagine those seminars are not sold worlwide in premiedom. Anybody having an English copy of that brochure?
Anybody been through one of them?

I don't know if these guys realized these seminars are MSIA's propaganda, i.e. the seminars vending premies are making money for another radhasoami guru!!

The InsightsŪ Seminars documentation.

It's in French so that everyone can read it, and I'm waiting for an English version. Anybody?


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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 19:47:57 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Guru John-Roger Ji
Subject: and didn't attend the InsigtsŪ seminars ....
Message:
Premies taking MSIA training? That's strange. Their leader, John-Roger, is much worse than Maharaj Ji. More abusive and spouting a theological line that is way stranger than 'meditate on this Knowledge and you will get inner peace.' It's almost as strange as Scientology, from what I've heard of it.
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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 06:33:10 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Isn't John-Roger the guy
Message:
who sued David Lane into shutting up about him? If I remember correctly, Lane used to have stuff posted about him and a book either out or about to come out. Then one day when I went to Lane's site, a page came up saying he was unable to post the material for legal reasons (hope I am remembering it right- one cult was enough and just can't get that interested to remember about every one of them).

Sounds right from what you guys are saying. John-Roger had had some celebrity follower- that's the only other thing I remember.

The Neural Surfer site has been upgraded quite a bit BTW. It takes more time for the different main pages to download but overall it is much easier to get around.

http://www.mtsac.edu/~dlane/

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 21:37:41 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: InsigtsŪ seminars: as strange as it may seem
Message:
premies are indeed selling and buying those seminars !

It was actually a shock for me when I've discovered this, that's why I've kept the brochure.

Marc Levitte (who's the boss of this business in France - his company's name is mentionned at the bottom of page#6) is Rawat's assistant to organize intl events. His assistants and employees are the main EV's honchos here.

What do you think of this? Astounding .........

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 16:31:19 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: two different 'insights' (and Zen Master Rama)
Message:
I guess it would be just too strange to have one 'only true master' endorse the cover organization of another 'only true master' (or Soul Traveller, as J-R is called, I believe, unless I'm mixing him up with the Living Eck Master, another cult whose teachings J-R ripped off to create his cult).

Which reminds me of 'Zen Master Rama' aka Frederic Lenz, another shameless huckster, who somehow retains a loyal following, despite having committed suicide last year, having flung himself into a pool, high on downers. And then there's Rajneesh, who preferred nitrous oxide.

Guru Maharaj Ji is one of the less colorful cult leaders. I follow them all...I mean, keep track of them all...just as I listen to right-wing radio evangelists, for the same reason: human religious mania is massively entertaining. DLM/EV is less entertaining, but having once been bamboozled by Goom Rodgie, I feel obligated to follow...um, keep track of...him, too.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 00:02:37 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: InsightsŪ seminars vs Insight seminars
Message:
One the web pages I've found regardings MSIA, Insight seminars are mentioned. Are you sure there is a connection between InsightsŪ seminars and MSIA?
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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 08:36:19 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: G
Subject: InsightsŪ seminars vs Insight seminars?
Message:
I don't know.

Insights is definitely linked to Brian Tracy and his Peak Performance stuff.

I find the names' proximity quite interesting.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 13:35:03 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Insights, Brian Tracy, Insight links
Message:
Here is a link the Insights, with is based on the psychology of Carl Jung. It combines the Jacobi-Jungian insight with Jung's preferences, resulting in 56 personality types:

www.insights.co.uk

They also have seminars about selling.

Here are some links to Brian Tracy. He deals with closing the sale, the psychology of selling, motivation, etc.

Brian Tracy

Brian Tracy International Inc.

Brian Tracy International Inc.

Here is a link to Insight Seminars:

Insight Seminars

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 23:35:12 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: J-M, is it possible Rawat's on a %? (nt)
Message:
mmm
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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 14:51:25 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: J-M, is it possible Rawat's on a %? (nt)
Message:
Maybe they're on one of M's special-dinner invitation lists. It would be remarkable to know that list consists of these motivational mumbo-jumbo guys, and that M is accepting donations from their proceeds, especially when, by all accounts, he comes across as being all the motivation you'll ever need. Wouldn't that be acknowledging that Knowledge isn't quite enough? Of course, I'm just speculating....

I once knew a wealthy premie who got invited to one of these shindigs. He told me that, maybe, one day, if I do as much SS&M as he does, I'd get invited to have dinner with Maharaji, too. Sure.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 17:57:25 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Of COURSE he's getting % but that's not the issue!
Message:
The EV guys running the seminars make huge profits, no doubt, on premies' and their bosses' money. And the Rat gets his share.

What bothers me is the manipulation at work in those seminars.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 21:52:51 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: I'm lost
Message:
JM,

What's this about? It just looks to me that some premies are running some kind of motivational/efficiency/production seminar or something. Am I right? Are these seminars setup specifically for premie attendance? Are premies being encouraged to attend these seminars so more cash flows toward M? Do I know what I'm talking about? I'm lost.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 01:28:43 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Not me ! PLEASE READ THIS !!!
Message:
Here's the story an ex told on the French forum.

He once went to some service meeting in his town, and the meeting was managed by one of EV's honchos there. They were talking of how to be more efficient in their 'service', things like that.

And then that honcho introduced the miraculous solution: be a part of one of those Insights seminars that so and so (famous premie) was selling, and how that would be nice, and how their boss could even pay for this, bla bla, and how that would improve their understanding, and improve the teamwork for the master etc bla bla
Read all the stuff they say about their miraculous seminars, it's the sort of stuff there is on the French brochure I got.

He was not a total idiot and didn't buy the seminar (some $ 5,000 or more, I dont remember). Plenty of premies went through those seminars, and the word was that Rawat was encouraging premies to attend them.

And now Rawat is managing HIMSELF the seminars !!!

Do you get it? It's not only for money. He wants premies to 'synchronize' with him, that's the purpose of these seminars.

And now, if you didn't attend one of them, you can't do service anymore!

Are you getting somewhere? This is the new thing in EV these days!!! This is what's happening NOW !!!!!!!!!

And those seminars are worth NOTHING, and managed by premies or Rawat who have NO QUALIFICATIONS.

Those guys were selling literally anything before this. They're selling seminars because they make a good living out of this.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 02:32:05 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Absolutely -- no make that 'fucking' -- amazing!
Message:
JM,

This is too weird. Could you please water this down a bit? I don't know if my sedentary heart can take much more.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 21:02:02 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Let's try again
Message:
Maybe I've missed something before now, and apologies if that's the case, but

Apart from the fact that there are premies involved with this org, what info is there re connection to Rawat?

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 19:17:03 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Insights Discovery Personal Reports - samples
Message:
See the following link to see samples in different languages of

Insights Discovery Personal Report

it includes stuff like:

Key Strengths an Weaknesses
Possible Blind Spots
Difficult Person
Suggestions for Development

It seems suspicious to me that Rawat is interested in this. Maybe he wants to pick up the ideas and distort them in a Scientology kind of way? I hope not, maybe I'm being too cynical. I wonder if there is a tie-in to 'examining oneself in front of the speaker'.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 19:02:30 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Insights- the Lothians, Peter Hart, colour energy
Message:
On the About Insights page, it shows that Insights was founded by brothers Andi and Andrew Lothian. Peter G Hart is a director. Anyone know these guys?

Here is another link, about The Insights Colour Energies

Also see Notes and news at www.mbc.co.uk and find 'Launch of new psychometric system'.

It might be significant that this is a psychometric system.

Some (apparently mirror) Insights sites are at

www.insights.co.uk
www.fortune.org.uk
www.insightsworld.com

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 17:19:18 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: I've been a bad premie
Subject: More links to InsigtsŪ....
Message:
Is this a premie website?

German Insights Seminars

Playing Golf

http://www.golfinsights.com/home.html

See also the links with the Brian Tracy trainings ....

http://www.achievement.com/

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 17:31:16 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: And even more links to InsigtsŪ....
Message:
Canada:

Brian Tracy and Insights Lisensees .....

Are these guys premies?

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 10:46:13 (GMT)
From: Sniggs
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Snigged
Message:
Hi,

I am an ex-premie who occasionally posts to this forum but under a different name - my real name. Though I am quite up front about my position with Elan Vital I still remain on their mailing list (even despite me once asking to be removed). Since January of this year EV have sent me two notifications of events and further information relevant to my local community in the UK. I thought that it might be of interest to the ex-premie community to see these publications just as they had been sent to me. Accordingly I reproduced the documents faithfully but in HTML so that they could be easily viewed online. I then set up a new Internet account and uploaded the documents into the webspace. Once I was sure they were online I posted to ForumV as Sniggs and made a hyperlink to the aforementioned documents. From the responses to those posts I know that many of you saw these documents.

About a week ago I realised that the Sniggs account had mysteriously vanished. I was unable to connect to the web via sniggs, pick up sniggs email or FTP into the sniggs webspace. I was feeling a bit snigged. My first notion to explain the account termination was that somebody from EV had asked FreeUK for the removal of the pages as their permission hadn't been given for reproduction.

During the weekend I have been in touch with FreeUK, the host company to see what the trouble was. Here is their response...

Hello

I'm afraid your account has been deleted because you claimed on your webpage that you was part of a registered charity. Someone complained that you wasnt, so we looked in to it and found it to be true.

best regards

Paul
freeuk support

Well, the only reference to registered charity is on the EV official notepaper and was nothing to do with Sniggs.

I now suspect it is more likely that an ex-premie complained about the pages. Thank you whoever you are.

Sniggs is dead and out of the web publishing game unless anyone else here has any suggestions.

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 12:26:41 (GMT)
From: Faith-no more
Email: None
To: Sniggs
Subject: Snigged
Message:
Dear Sniggs,

I remember the documents and found them very interesting. I cannot recall mention about a registered charity but at the end of the satellite link info. document there were the words 'registered carity'. At the time I thought this was some bizarre reference to the Gurus limousines and other luxury cars.

You are a prince and I am sorry you have got in the shit.

I'm not one to jump to conclusions but I think we can be almost certain it was Mirr. I hate that guy.

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 14:52:26 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Faith-no more
Subject: No worry, it's still on my website for ever
Message:
Elan Vital Today

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 15:10:46 (GMT)
From: Sniggs
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: No worry, it's still on my website for ever
Message:
Well thanks for that JM.

I've only just noticed but in the first notice (video 2000) it reads 'Registered as a Carity'. My spelling mistake but they still got me.

I'll send future notices directly to you.

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 16:13:21 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Sniggs
Subject: No worry, it's still on my website for ever
Message:
I thought that was THEIR mistake !

I still don't understand why they've banned you from their server!

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 18:39:34 (GMT)
From: Sniggs
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: why they banned sniggs
Message:
Here is the latest reply I have had from FreeUK, the company who hosted Sniggs webspace.

The initial complaint was not that the website was in breach of our aup it was the fact that the content of the webspace had a letter posted on it making it appear that this was an official document, therefore in the interest of protect ourselves and our customers we were force to remove the account ourselves to prevent further action being taken by this party solicitors.

Our acceptable use policy can be found at the following address
http://www.freeuk.net/support/terms.html

Regards,

So much for Free UK.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 08:14:31 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Sniggs
Subject: Then why don't you have a general introduction
Message:
explaining the sort of stuff you have on your pages?

That's what I've done on my website, and I don't think anybody could object to this. I know that EV's officials are mad at me, and I'm sure they would do anything IF that was possible.

The problem is that this is what information is about: bringing information and documents together, and helping people having another perspective on some issues.

We don't live in the Rat's world anymore ....

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 15:21:07 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Sniggs
Subject: JM is the man! Send it to him! LOL -nt-
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 17:19:09 (GMT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: JM
Subject: You're da man,indeed (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 11:10:56 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Sniggs
Subject: Well I guess I shouldn't do the same mistake
Message:
And not register as a charity!

hahahahaha .....

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 05:48:47 (GMT)
From: sackshitananda
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 'I am your guru'
Message:
Responding to accusations of sexual misconduct, swami satchitanand ji retorted 'Don't judge me, I am your guru. If you choose to belive it, you can leave right now. Or, if you have faith, you can stay and continue in my service.'

Spoken like a true guru. Truly an enlightened one in the style of shit hans, Imean shit er, shit um, shri hans and his shit son.

Taken from the RickRoss.com anti-cult website.

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 11:32:42 (GMT)
From: Angry
Email: None
To: sackshitananda
Subject: Santana quote-my new mantra
Message:
This is funny! Carlos Santana in reference to the 'truth' according to Shri Chinmoy said, 'This shit is not for me-I don't care how enlightening it is'.

Whenever I start feeling stupid about my involvement with Fatso Ji,I hope to remember this quote.

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 15:38:47 (GMT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Angry
Subject: Santana is full of his own
Message:
I listened to an interview with Carlos Santana a few years ago on the car radio. I can assure you that he's full of his own spiritual claptrap anyway despite quitting Chinmoy. I don't know when he left Sri Chinmoy but his album 'Love, Devotion and Surrender' is still available at his website. It pictures 'Devadip' Carlos in serene mood walking in a garden with 'Mahavishnu' John Mcloughlin (sp?). They are decked out in spiritually appropriate white suits but Chinmoy is not shown as he was on the original release.

Having said that Santana's new album 'Supernatural' is very good indeed (maybe not maria maria).

What ever happened to Santana's old drummer from Woodstock, Michael Shieve? I'm sure he also got tangled up with a cult.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 03:40:43 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Charlie
Subject: Does Chinmoy pretend to play the piano?
Message:
Five or so years ago I went to a (free) concert that I think was Chinmoy playing(?) the piano. Is that possible? A lot of favourable press, and I went with a couple of friends. It seemed like I was the only one there able to realize that the 'brilliant' musician might be able to play other instruments, but God did not help him to play the piano that night. I found it shockingly arrogant (and a GODAWFULLY! disrespectful pounding of an an instrument I love)
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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 10:31:04 (GMT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Stonor
Subject: Does Chinmoy play the piano? It gets worse...
Message:
Not only does he play and compose but he got all kinds of famous classical musicians to 'endorse' him. If you are a big Glass fan, you might actually like his stuff (I don't).

He also used to do showings of his art which would look like 500 different versions of his thumb's fingerprint with it smudged in a slightly different angle- then with a little devotional saying under each one.

Then he claims to have broken several weightlifting records (like lifting two tons with his pinkie or some such) but it was done while no one was watching- or at any rate w/o official prerequisite requirements for such a thing.

And he has Carl Lewis and other world-class athletes vouching for him! Same as he has with his music. I think Bernstein was in on it.. but sometimes it's easy to get the very old to fall for stupid tricks.


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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 21:00:51 (GMT)
From: Stonor
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Does Chinmoy play the piano? It gets worse...
Message:
Thanks for expanding on my question. Another emperor with no clothes with a lot of polite ' non-judgemental' people quietly going along with it - even supporting and reinforcing it. (I'm still surprised at how emotional I was while writing that post.) Ah well, I feel the tide is turning in this area, and this forum is a clear indication of that! Hmmmm . . . maybe I should add Hans Christian Andersen to my list of enlightened beings!

I did enjoy Koyaanisqaatsi (sp?) although Glass's sound track gets irritating at times - it worked with this film. He didn't even approach the madness of Chimmoy's piano abuse.

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 22:34:09 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Charlie
Subject: Santana is full of his own
Message:
Yeah, whatever Carlos is into I do love his CD.
It's odd really, he comes here almost every year, has such a feel for the 'hood' and connects so well. I can't reconcile it with his guru thing. but whatever.
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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 15:54:21 (GMT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Angry
Subject: While I'm at it..
Message:
At a Christmas community satsang held at Conway Hall London back in 1978 the local ashram premies put on a special show for our entertainment.

The show was all about a poor fool searching for enlightenment who gets mixed up with Sri Chinmoy. Chinmoy was refered to in the production as Sri Factory Chimney. Anyway, in the end a shining premie played by one Peter Dawson rescues the hapless seeker and steers him to the true path by taking him to mahraji's ashram. It was a close shave I can tell you. The audience were on the edge of their seats.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 07:36:02 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Charlie
Subject: While I'm at it..
Message:
Hey Charlie,
I remember that evening. I used to go to the Conway Hall often.
I recall once an ashram premie fainting with devotion on the stage and me thinking that that must be samhadi. The play was more like Sam Hardy though.
Hal
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 02:04:25 (GMT)
From: Jackie
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: While I'm at it..
Message:
Hi Hal,

I guess you just can't keep away? Anyway, Anthony is awaiting your email for me. He said it didn't arrive yet.

Jackie

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 09:09:42 (GMT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Feeling faint
Message:
It was probably Anth you saw fainting. He was always passing out in those days. Whenever I saw him during the late seventies he was always at 45 degrees heading for horizontal! What a big baby eh?
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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 07:41:54 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: sackshitananda
Subject: He sucks and............
Message:
Loves being.................sucked that is!
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