newkid -:- Am I about to do something stupid? -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 01:16:49 (GMT)

__ Way -:- Am I about to do something stupid? -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 21:46:37 (GMT)

__ __ newkid -:- Am I about to do something stupid? -:- Mon, Mar 13, 2000 at 04:09:48 (GMT)

__ __ DOD -:- What's the buzz? Videos have been cancelled? -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 01:49:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ G -:- There are still videos happening -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 04:23:24 (GMT)

__ DOD -:- Am I about to do something stupid? -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 21:28:51 (GMT)

__ __ newkid -:- Am I about to do something stupid? -:- Mon, Mar 13, 2000 at 04:10:56 (GMT)

__ tilly -:- you do what you have to do -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 03:49:46 (GMT)

__ __ hamzen -:- You're all heart Tilly (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 19:07:14 (GMT)

__ __ Jerry -:- A real life Pauline Premie! -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 11:20:05 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- Hey, Tilly -- I've got what you want, honey! -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 04:12:54 (GMT)

__ __ __ SB -:- THAT WAS GREAT!!! ha hah ha ROFL -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 05:02:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ ET -:- Hey, Tilly -- I've got what you want, honey! -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 04:41:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ tilly -:- hi sweety -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 23:34:53 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ ET -:- Schwag! (nt) -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 00:56:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You're obviously ignorant on this topic, Tilly -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 23:56:07 (GMT)

__ Susan -:- I hope not. -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 02:17:46 (GMT)

__ __ Susan -:- I missed the married part! please excuse the part -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 02:23:36 (GMT)

__ Ben Lurking -:- Am I about to do something stupid? -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 02:06:18 (GMT)

__ Anarchist -:- Am I about to do something stupid? -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 02:03:04 (GMT)

__ __ cai-jo -:- why stupid if you want to see for yourself! -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 03:25:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ SB -:- How much have you bought for Visions? -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 05:05:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jim -:- Did you just post above as 'tilly'? -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 04:17:26 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Nigel -:- tilly is seemingly yet another... -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 19:34:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Nigel - tilly is seemingly yet another... -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 17:21:36 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Nigel -:- All of one mind when it comes to you-know-what... -:- Mon, Mar 13, 2000 at 00:17:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ hamzen -:- So why does he talk so much and not shut up? -:- Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 08:58:09 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You're acting like an idiot, Dogg -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 18:36:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Luck of the Irish -:- Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 17:34:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- I'm acting like an idiot, Jim? -:- Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 06:37:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Yes -:- Sort of -:- Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 14:51:57 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- That was me -:- Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 14:57:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- No more posting when I'm hammered!!!! (NT) -:- Mon, Mar 13, 2000 at 19:51:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ tilly -:- thank you nigel -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 22:42:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Why won't you answer, Tilly? -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 23:18:29 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ tilly -:- Why post? -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 23:52:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hey, relax, I was just asking -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 23:58:12 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ tilly -:- no Jim it's my first time -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 03:43:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ Helen -:- Newkid -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 04:09:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Mike -:- Well said, Helen -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 15:15:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Well said, Helen -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 20:07:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Happy -:- beware -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 16:58:55 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ cai-jop -:- beware -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 22:52:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ DOD -:- beware the golden shitter -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 01:36:54 (GMT)

Happy -:- 'Baby Pranayama' -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:43:49 (GMT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- 'Baby Pranayama' and Hindu/Mahadaya belief -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 04:53:41 (GMT)

__ __ G -:- Video of her singing with her father -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 16:55:39 (GMT)

__ Runamok -:- Special Premie Breathing Techniques -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 22:20:56 (GMT)

__ __ Sir Dave -:- Ashram Premie Breathing Techniques -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 01:08:41 (GMT)

__ __ __ Runamok -:- Ashram Premie Breathing Techniques -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 02:52:04 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Schoolboy Breathing Techniques -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 12:33:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- Comparison Shopping- -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 13:47:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ JB -:- Breathing tech -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 20:15:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Here is the weather -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 02:15:39 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Breathing tech -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 20:45:03 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- funny you should mention... -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 22:12:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JB -:- Breathing tech -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 23:45:10 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Why call it God? -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 01:45:08 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Stonor -:- Why call it God? -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 22:26:30 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Why call it God? -:- Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 02:51:51 (GMT)

Way -:- Mirror, try this poem instead -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:55:11 (GMT)

__ mir -:- Way that is such a joke -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 22:51:14 (GMT)

__ __ Jim -:- I can explain that, fuckhead -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 04:28:18 (GMT)

__ __ __ The Mirror -:- Charming fellow! -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 00:12:34 (GMT)

__ __ Mike -:- Why didn't you answer the question, mir? -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 23:44:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ Way -:- Thanks, Mike (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 15:26:50 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Mike -:- The pleasure was all mine! :-) (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 16:23:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ mirror -:- What are you guys? -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 01:29:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- What are you guys? -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 15:32:21 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ mir -:- What are you guys? -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 18:29:37 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- What are you guys? -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 20:16:47 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- He's contradicting M, though -:- Sun, Mar 12, 2000 at 03:13:46 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- Now, that was new..... -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 14:57:14 (GMT)

__ DOD -:- Or this one, Mirror -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 20:10:36 (GMT)

__ __ Sir Dave -:- Or this one, Mirror -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 20:34:44 (GMT)

Mu -:- Qualities to become realized ;-) -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:49:18 (GMT)

__ JB -:- No. 10's My Favorite (nt) -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 22:48:11 (GMT)

__ DOD -:- Qualities to become realized ;-) -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 20:26:36 (GMT)

__ __ Mu -:- Terminally Gullible too ;-) nt -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 22:03:52 (GMT)

__ Haldor the Baldor -:- Qualities to become realized ;-) -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:43:38 (GMT)

__ __ Mu -:- Qualities to become realized ;-) -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:58:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ cq -:- You another of those justified ancients, Mu? (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 19:45:42 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Mu -:- Nah, cq, Mu is nothing ;-) -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 22:32:24 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ cq -:- There's waking up and there's ... -:- Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 16:47:19 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Mu -:- LOL and busting a gut! Too too good! nt -:- Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 17:21:07 (GMT)

JANUS -:- MAHARAJI -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:05:31 (GMT)

__ JANUS -:- MAHARAJI -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:26:46 (GMT)

__ __ JB -:- MAHARAJI -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:13:31 (GMT)

__ __ __ janus -:- MAHARAJI -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 15:20:51 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Another Danish premie -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 15:57:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ janus -:- Another Danish premie -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 17:43:24 (GMT)

__ JHB -:- MAHARAJI -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:11:13 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Insights/Brian Tracy new website in France!!! -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:39:22 (GMT)

__ Runamok -:- Is this JR seminars? -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:59:42 (GMT)

__ __ Jean-Michel -:- Is this JR seminars? -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 17:05:34 (GMT)

__ __ __ Runamok -:- Is these JR seminars? -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:08:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Happy -:- 'What to do when your guru sues you' -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:49:35 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Gregg -:- Yeah, I read it... -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 22:12:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- 'What to do when your guru sues you' -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 20:10:57 (GMT)

la ex -:- seminars -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:12:30 (GMT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- Rawat's seminars -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 17:03:39 (GMT)

__ __ bb -:- 'the speaker-your discretion-confidential' -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 03:09:26 (GMT)

__ __ JHB -:- Judas Iscariot -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:19:00 (GMT)

__ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Judas Iscariot -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:09:31 (GMT)

__ __ Jerry -:- Rawat's seminars -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:00:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ JHB -:- $5000 -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:22:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- $5000 -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:39:40 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ El Magnifico! -:- $5 I am still the best deal on the planet! -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:58:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- Psst..... El..... over here..... -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:40:01 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ El Magnifico! -:- Psst..... El..... over here..... -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 01:48:16 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Mike -:- Oh great..... -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 15:21:11 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ El Magnifico! -:- I am not god - I just want your money! -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 15:52:07 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ I -:- I AM God! -:- Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 13:45:56 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- I just want your money! Do you do blow-jobs?(nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 21:10:14 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ El Magnifico! -:- No stupid you DON'T get anything out of it! nt -:- Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 01:02:06 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Not even a little whiff of the old holy breath? nt -:- Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 12:04:12 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- There's really One Source of Agya! -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 09:41:26 (GMT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- Remember that one? Congratulations! -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:35:41 (GMT)

__ __ bb -:- JM -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 03:13:12 (GMT)

__ Susan -:- great thing to have on your site -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 15:36:24 (GMT)

__ DOD -:- There's really One Source of Agya! -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 14:58:41 (GMT)

ET -:- Mr. Natural Meets Maharaji -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 05:55:38 (GMT)

Remy -:- Bliss and Godhead, please clarify -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 00:03:17 (GMT)

__ DOD -:- Bliss and Godhead, please clarify -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 15:26:27 (GMT)

__ Jean-Michel -:- Bliss and Godhead, some clarification... -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 11:47:09 (GMT)

__ __ Jerry -:- Bliss and Godhead, some clarification... -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 01:28:54 (GMT)

__ __ Way -:- Bliss and Godhead, some clarification... -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:22:44 (GMT)

__ __ __ Jerry -:- Bliss and Godhead, some clarification... -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 01:56:58 (GMT)

__ __ __ Remy -:- Many thanks -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:30:15 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Even more disturbing: cosmic teletubbies baby face -:- Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 08:54:49 (GMT)

__ __ __ __ DOD -:- Many thanks -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:42:44 (GMT)

Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 01:16:49 (GMT) From: newkid Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Am I about to do something stupid? Message:

I have this friend who is just a regular person. She has a regular job, husband, house, and kid. In the two or three years I know her, she's occaisionally refered to something she called Knowledge, saying it was a meditation technique taught by someone called Maharaji. The name was familiar, but I never connected it to the old DLM that I had heard about back in the 70's. It wasn't until I agreed to go to an introductory session at the end of the month that I started to look around on the net for more information and realized that this whole thing probably WAS connected to the DLM. The thing is that my friend doesn't act like a cult member. She says that she Maharaji doesn't tell her what to do, and she doesn't live her life according to what he says. Two things occur to me here: 1)Despite what I think this isn't the same guy. 2)If it is the same guy, he's not going to hurt me since my friend is OK. So tell me am I being stupid about going or should I run in the other direction.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 21:46:37 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: newkid Subject: Am I about to do something stupid? Message:

NK, I personally wish you would go to the introductory event and let us know your reaction. You must live in a major city. According to the national video event schedule on the U.S. Elan Vital website (click on the Finding Out More link), there is only a handful of cities still currently having video events. The day after you attend the event, try to remember one thing that Maharaji said. This is extremely difficult.

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Date: Mon, Mar 13, 2000 at 04:09:48 (GMT) From: newkid Email: None To: Way Subject: Am I about to do something stupid? Message:

Not in a major city, but a major suburb. I am undecided at this point, but if I go I will certainly post

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 01:49:04 (GMT) From: DOD Email: None To: Way Subject: What's the buzz? Videos have been cancelled? Message:

How are the premies getting their fix nowadays? Does everyone have to buy his/her own videos for home viewing? When is the next big program? There is nothing showing on Fatboy's site.

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 04:23:24 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: DOD Subject: There are still videos happening Message:

There are still videos happening. However, the Smart Card Project has been announced, whatever that is, so maybe the videos will not be by voluntary donation anymore. Then there are the seminars.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 21:28:51 (GMT) From: DOD Email: None To: newkid Subject: Am I about to do something stupid? Message:

RUN, SAVE YOURSELF, NK!

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Date: Mon, Mar 13, 2000 at 04:10:56 (GMT) From: newkid Email: None To: DOD Subject: Am I about to do something stupid? Message:

ROFLMAO!!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 03:49:46 (GMT) From: tilly Email: None To: newkid Subject: you do what you have to do Message:

there be always pro's there be always con's(con in french means stupid)If you go in the negative part of people you'd probeply never stop finding bad things! I wunder if M ever really clamed he was the incarnation of god? Be aware what people make of it. Ever heard about arabian telephone?If not let me know and tell you!Don't be afraid of making misstakes,M is not a cult that brainwachess you,really not and for te people who had bad experi- ence they probeply expected to much,and are blaming somebody else for their stupidity!ha ha,,,,,,,that,s ignorence isn't it? when I read all this stuff in the sides what strikes me again and should'n is it is true that loosers like to stick together to give themselfs some importance,and some strenght. Poor loosers,did you read some of these people misserable life, And it is M fauld that they didn't have succes,how pittyfull

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 19:07:14 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: tilly Subject: You're all heart Tilly (nt) Message:

h

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 11:20:05 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: tilly Subject: A real life Pauline Premie! Message:

Tilly, Have you ever heard of a premie named Pauline? You sound just like her! It's amazing! If you haven't heard of her, stick around. She shows up every so often and is always a treat when she does - just like you. Hey, Pauline! Say hello to Tilly. I really think you two should meet.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 04:12:54 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: tilly Subject: Hey, Tilly -- I've got what you want, honey! Message:

Tilly, In your post you said you doubted that Maharaji ever claimed to be God. Wishful thinking, huh? Well read the following and weep, baby. You're in a genuine cult, complete with a real, live fake Lord of the Universe. Neat huh?: 1) 'You look at Christ, for instance. And he came and was Perfect Master. According to the belief, he had enough power that after he was crucified, he came back. So, you think twice about this and you figure, if somebody has got a power -- and it was incredible as to be able to to be crucified and them come back again -- you can definitely figure out that he must ahve the power to sort of take the whole Earth and jiggle it once in a plastic bag. Give it a little twist, all us teensy-weensy things go falling into this palstic bag. He opens it up and says, 'Listen, you thing in there. Realize the purpose of your life, aim of your life. This is it. Period.' ***** 2)Q - To whom should we give our devotion? A - Guru. Q - Shouldn't we give our devotion to God? A - What is God? Q - Well, Guru is a personification of God in this Earth, right? A - I told you yesterday: Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion? **** When God has come here, then what is the need to give devotion to God there? ***** 3) The Lord Himself reincarnates, reincarnates, reincarnates Himself for the very purpose of saving us. And we do not even realize who gave us the authority to refuse Him! Who are we anyway? From which field do we come that we can reject, that we can refuse, that we can deny our Lord? This is something that I cannot answer. And we do it every time!. Because we have got a stupid ego. ..... We just don't know that we are His puppets. ***[a lot of stuff about how he could suck all the atmosphere away, etc.] 4) So when Lord comes to us, accept Him. And Lord is here. He has always been here. How can we make a statment, 'The Lord is gone', and then turn aroudn and say, 'Lord is omnipresent'? We are contradicting ourselves. He has always been here. He has always been saving us, but it's us who pull out of His shelter. ******* 5) What is it? Something for people to understand: that there is a personality like God. Adn without him we are just pieces of junk, nothing else. And it's like, somebody has to really look up to it, you know. It's like, God is THERE, all the time. But for a person to see Him and underwstand Him, anyway he ahs to look UP to Him. But it's like, God is giving us all these indications of His presence. You know? If he does... Look. The thing is, if somebody goes and does soemthing good, he will go and goof around all Arizona probably, saying ' I have done something good.' But if he does something bad, and he blows it [ed. like predicting the dawning of the millenium], you know, it means he just really blew it. Then he is going to blame it on somebody else; not on himself. So if God does something good for people, people will never understand it. People don't! ***** 6) 'Why do we have this human body? To know this, we will have to take the shelter of Guru Maharja Ji. Guru Maharj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharjai is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Mahraji is the Supremest Lord in person before us.' ****** 7) Who is Guru? The highest manifestation of God is Guru. So when Guru is here, God is here, to whom will you give your devotion? ****** 8)Guru Maharj Ji knows all. Guru Maharaji is Brahma (creator). Guru Maharaji is Vishnu (Operator). Guru Maharjai is Shiva (Destoryer of illusion and ego). And above all, Guru Mahraji is the Supremest Lord in person before us. ******* 9) I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? ****** 10) When human beings forget the religion of humanity, the Supreme Lord incarnates. He takes a body and comes on this earth ...... When human beings forget this one way, then our Lord, who is the Lord of the whole universe, comes in human body to give us practical Knowlege, .... But, most ironically, we don't appreciate the Lord when He comes in His human body on this earth. Similarly, a Satguru, a Perfect Master, a Supreme Lord who is existing in the present time, can give you the practical Knowledge of the real thing... So God Himself comes to give practical Knowledge of His divinity, of His inner self, which is self-effulgent light, eternal light, all-pervading light. **** And the Supreme Master, the Satguru, gives practical Knowledge of that light, irrespective of caste, creed, color, religion or sex, to those human individuals who bow before him with reverence, with love and with faith. 11)Just see, today this word 'guru' has become a ridiculous term, a sort of a joke and people do not know what is a 'guru'. When I fly a plane in India, I often listen to the radio in the cockpit. There are talks going on between various pilots in the vicinity. Somebody would address: ''Well Guru, how are you?' Because they do not know the true meaning and implications. They don't understand the glory of a guru and Master. Because they have forgotten altogether. They have made such pseudo-guru who have put the whole system to disrepute. For instance, in schools they don't know the correct meaning of a couplet like: The radiance radiated from my beloved is of suds an amazing hue ... They say, 'oh yes, because Kabir saw a sort of redness...' But what sort of redness was it? Such so-called gurus have marred the reputation of this institution. It has been ruined. Actually the guru is such a personality about whom it is said: >i> I bow down to the lotusfeet of my Guru Maharaji, who is the ocean of mercy and is actually Hari (God) himself in human form, And whose words are like sunbeams to disperse the accumulated darkness of gross ignorance. So Tulsidas says that he bows down to such a Guru Maharaji, the Master, who is really Hari (Supreme Power) in the form of man. So the main thing to understand here is that he bows down to the feet of that guru whose utterances, whose expressions are able to illuminate. And what is that which is illuminated by his words? It is the heart which is illuminated. His words are able to sever and dispel the spidery web of illusion, infatuation and ignorance. This I have seen myself and realized in my own heart. Yes, in my heart! 12) And so premies, the Perfect Master comes, and he comes in the human body. I mean, he doesn’t have to. All he has to do is have a body that’s as huge as the world – and even bigger, as the universe – and then pick up the whole world on his little finger and say, ‘You guys want to live, or should I blow you away ?’ He could do that, because we call him Almighty. And if we call him Almighty, it’s a jazz for him to do this. It wouldn’t take him anything. Because he’s perfect. And he could just very well do that and say, ‘Look. If you don’t realize this Knowledge, all I’m going to do is – boomp ! – and you are never going to know what hit you’. But he doesn’t say that. Why? He bears up with everything in this world. Look at us humans; look at the people of this world. Every time he comes, they say, ‘Forget it, he is not the one; he can’t be the one. He doesn’t have Knowledge. This is some crazy thing.’ And I mean, if really this ever happened, that the Almighty, the All Perfect, just picked up the whole world in his hand and said, ‘Should I kick you?’…. He doesn’t have to go to any person and say, ‘Should I kick you ?’ If he says, ‘Should I kick your world ?’ you’d never know what hit you, and you are going to fly somewhere else. But he doesn’t. And it’s really beautiful. ...Now this ego. Though it appears to be of little consequence, but even if a devotee is conscious of the fact -'l know,' it is akin to the devotee's crucifixion. If you are plagued with a little bit of arrogance that 'you know', you are gone. You are finished. You know nothing. Period. Again you have to turn to the Master and pray to him to give you prudence - 'Maharaji, please give me wisdom. I even don't know that as a human being I should not be egoistic. This is the problem. As a human being, I don't know how to conduct myself as a devotee. This too please teach me. Please let me know.'

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 05:02:44 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: Jim Subject: THAT WAS GREAT!!! ha hah ha ROFL Message:

:0 Did I read them all? No, they are tooooo many... Thanks for the laugh. ROFL

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 04:41:36 (GMT) From: ET Email: None To: Jim Subject: Hey, Tilly -- I've got what you want, honey! Message:

Enough with the potent quotes. I'm about to rush back to the Lotus Feet! -ET

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 23:34:53 (GMT) From: tilly Email: None To: ET Subject: hi sweety Message:

hi ET,are you one of those succers who kisses someones feet and then when disappointed( because you didn't have a frontrow seat, because you probeply didn't pay enough buddy?)and didn't feel recognised and important enough and so feel like now you have a way to express your frustration on the internet by smering your shit everwere. And ofcourse people are reacting and collaborating because it rejoints their shit experience,and so you can go on biching together, that's much cosyer I admit,if it's enriching ?????? I doubt it,liberating some disappointments by sharing them ,Yes probeply,but that's only skindeep.Go on with your things.Pay your self a shrink,and dig out what's really concerning you instead of smering your dirty smely shit arround!!!! I don't even have to be a fan, follower or whatever of M to see your proper frustrations about your own life...good luck men,,,, your shrink

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 00:56:11 (GMT) From: ET Email: None To: tilly Subject: Schwag! (nt) Message:

Schwag!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 23:56:07 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: tilly Subject: You're obviously ignorant on this topic, Tilly Message:

I wunder if M ever really clamed he was the incarnation of god? Be aware what people make of it. Ever heard about arabian telephone?If not let me know and tell you! Tilly, Apparently English isn't your thing so I won't make fun of your language. I will make fun of your stupidity though. Here you are defending a cult you clearly know nothing of. Maharaji did indeed claim to be God as I've shown you above. And you, like all cult members, can't deal with it straight on. You come here doubting that he ever said any such thing, are proven wrong and ... well what do you so? You avoid the issue. Coward!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 02:17:46 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: newkid Subject: I hope not. Message:

It sounds like the same guy to me. Read everything you can at ex-premie.org and DLM/EV papers. Pay special attention to aspirant issues. That may help incoulate you against cult speak. I do not know your friend so I cannot speak about her as an individual. But I do know that many many people who get involved have done so because of a relationship with a premie. If you are in love with this woman you may be seeing things through rose colored glasses. Here are some tests to see what her true feelings about Mirage(y) are. 1) Ask her to share her own personal criticisms of Maharaji. What things about him would she like to change? Does anything that he does or says disturb her? Very few premies will admit he can do any wrong. If she can't say ANYTHING negative about him you have to wonder. 2) Ask her about some of the difficult issues surrounding him: Does she think that he ever presented himself as God? Is it okay for someone to let people worship him as God? Why did Elan Vital ask the premies to destroy most of the pictures from the seventies? Has she ever kissed his feet in a Darshan line? If not does the fact that Darshan lines were once an integral part of the cult bother her? Does his massive wealth bother her at all? Has she seen him dance in the Mala? Would she like to look at the picture on this site of him dancing in the Mala? Has she ever sung Arti? ( words at EV papers site) Did she mean the words when she sang it? Those are just a few questions to get you started. Either she is in a cult or she is one of those fringe people at the edges of the cult who just doesn't examine the issues too closely. You'll be able to tell a lot from how she answers these questions.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 02:23:36 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: new kid Sorry! Subject: I missed the married part! please excuse the part Message:

where I say 'if you are in love with her!' Just a really common scenario.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 02:06:18 (GMT) From: Ben Lurking Email: None To: newkid Subject: Am I about to do something stupid? Message:

a) it is the same Elan Vital is the new name but it became Elan Vital from DLM. b) As a former follower I would recommend not getting involved, after the fact it is a cult. c) there are posts here nad on J-M's site that descibe the process of 'snaring' a new recruit. d) your friend may be normal and may not be 'over involved' but that is not the norm, ask your friend how much she donates to EV, how many special projects she has helped to fund. Ask waht kind of 'pressure' is put on her if she doesn't donate. In the end your money will go to m. Your 'church' will not be allowed to open a local 'place of worship' otherwise the locals may bring about an audit of EV which they want to avoid at all costs. As a business owner I can tell you that audits are a part of business, if you operate withing the guidelines of the law there is nothing to worry about. Why does EV worry about audits? If you go forward proceed with extreme caution - you are on the path to cultdom, poverty and supporting a man who once said he was god and now says he isn't. That s not a little issue that one would confuse themselves on if they were god. Read the stories about how cash gets 'funneled' to M. The arguements on this site may get heated, it is because many of us were burned by m. Read up on Jagdeo the Peodiphile, see waht m did about this cancer on his followers (nothing) Why does he need lavish yachts, planes and homes. Why must satellite feeds be so expensive to show. Why is he charging 85 people $5000 to be with 'the speaker' Basically he is a con man - a good one, meditaion techniques can be had freely, why do you need to pay for them. If you chose at some point to go forward and a premie says to you that it is absolutley free, ask if EV or M will put that in writing. Ask them if you can join and not donate money to ev, ask them if you can go to a program and not pay. Why does he need so much money. I do not want to ruin a freindship you have so ask the questions of other 'followers'. Put them on the spot. Read the anwers here before you ask your questions and see if you don't get the canned answers. I hope you can stay friends with this person without following m. good luck and come by often. Oh and ask why m does not allow for free discussion on his site? Why it is edited, purged and deleted if not 'up to snuff'. It is a very subtle scam - it is like fishing and right now you are seeing the fly on the water, at some point you may jump for the bait - that doesn't validate it. See ya newkd

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 02:03:04 (GMT) From: Anarchist Email: None To: newkid Subject: Am I about to do something stupid? Message:

You can get the meditation techniques from the web site linked to this forum. There's no need to become one of Maharaji's followers/students/premies/devotees or whatever they like to call themselves these days.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 03:25:21 (GMT) From: cai-jo Email: None To: newkid Subject: why stupid if you want to see for yourself! Message:

you see newkid when we people wanne do something that we never did before,we have all kind of fears hunting us cause we don't know what's about to happen to us?and we want ot inform as much possible which is fine.But be aware of people's opinion,cause it's their colour in what the see the things,their experience! I personnally happen to know people just like you do simple,fine,everyday people who don't make a fus out M's way of living(often very envious jalous people)I think that all the negative crab what people are talking about here is because they miss the point!It's not about how rich M is,And how many cars he's driving,and about airplanes,it's about what you feel when you go beyound all this.after all newkid imagen how many of those people fussing about all this would gladly accept all those cars and whatever M is been offered. I personnally have never been forched or what so ever to give money,I's been free in any way.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 05:05:31 (GMT) From: SB Email: None To: cai-jo Subject: How much have you bought for Visions? Message:

The truth?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 04:17:26 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: cai-jo Subject: Did you just post above as 'tilly'? Message:

One of the few rules around here is that it's not cool to change your name on people. You sound a lot like the superficial, uneducated cult member who posted as 'tilly'. Are you?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 19:34:12 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: Jim Subject: tilly is seemingly yet another... Message:

anonymous premie who spells losers as 'loosers'. Mr Get-a-life/Move on reincarnated. He has posted many times - always with a different name and always, coincidentally, the same spelling problem. (Except tilly's poor spelling looks deliberately exaggerated. As does Djuro's.) It hardly matters who is who, though, since premie thought patterns might as well be cloned. You could almost feel sorry for them.

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 17:21:36 (GMT) From: Deputy Dog Email: None To: Nigel Subject: Nigel - tilly is seemingly yet another... Message:

Nigel, You say, 'It hardly matters who is who, though, since premie thought patterns might as well be cloned.' That is a crock! Ask ten premies the same question and I'll bet you'll get at least seven different answers. Try that with Moonies or Krishnas. With premies there is no book, no concepts to follow. All M asks is that we take the ride inside and read our own book. -- Dep

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Date: Mon, Mar 13, 2000 at 00:17:58 (GMT) From: Nigel Email: None To: Deputy Dog Subject: All of one mind when it comes to you-know-what... Message:

Dep, Up to a point, you are right - when talking, say, about music, films, football etc. But try asking ten premies for a list of Maharaji's faults and failings, and count the varieties of reply.

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Date: Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 08:58:09 (GMT) From: hamzen Email: None To: Deputy Dog Subject: So why does he talk so much and not shut up? Message:

Since all language is conceptual, since this is supposed to be, as you say, our own journey, since the knowledge is so special, surely a bit more silence and less concepts from gm would work a treat?

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 18:36:04 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: Deputy Dog Subject: You're acting like an idiot, Dogg Message:

While it's true that premies might indeed give diametrically opposed answers to some basic questions (Is Maharaji God? Did he ever claim to be?) all of the answers will be boilerplate parrot talk. Maharaji's spoon-fed you every last idea you have about him even if some of those are contradictory. You think you sound original, Dogg? What a laugh! And let me reiterate what I said the other day about you. You do NOT sound sincere. A sincere person would lay all their cards on the table for an open discussion. You have doubts about Maharaji but you won't discuss them. Why? Because you can't allow the discussion to drift where you're afraaid to go. You can't allow your mind to drift where you're afraid to go. And even if it does, there's no way you're going to talk about it openly.

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Date: Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 17:34:03 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Jim Subject: Luck of the Irish Message:

Dep, you say: 'Ask ten premies the same question and I'll bet you'll get at least seven different answers. That question wouldn't be what time is it? would it?

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Date: Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 06:37:44 (GMT) From: Deputy Dog Email: None To: Jim Subject: I'm acting like an idiot, Jim? Message:

Jim, You say, 'all of the answers will be boilerplate parrot talk. Maharaji's spoon-fed you every last idea you have about him even if some of those are contradictory. You think you sound original, Dogg? What a laugh!' Well Jim, fuck you! I don't take to spoon feeding, in fact nobody tells me what the fuck to say or think! Boiler plate parrot talk? Horse shit!!!! Horse fucking manure!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jim, you know me. Do you think I can be spoon fed? Do you think anyone can fuck with me? You doubt that I'm not cynical enough? What a crock! I'm Irish Jim, I can think whatever the fuck I want. I'm in charge!!!! As a race we've been fucked with enough to know better. You say, 'You can't allow your mind to drift where you're afraid to go. And even if it does, there's no way you're going to talk about it openly.' What fucking mind? You think I'm afraid of anything? Mindfulness cuts through anything! I'm a warrior, totally the fuck in charge. I am who I say I am. Jim, you are a character in a story you made up. That's all you are. And what's worse, you don't even play a starring role, Maharaji does. You are a fucking soap opera! -- Dep

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Date: Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 14:51:57 (GMT) From: Yes Email: None To: Deputy Dog Subject: Sort of Message:

Dep, You really need to check out your thought patterns. I'm Irish Jim, I can think whatever the fuck I want. I'm in charge!!!! As a race we've been fucked with enough to know better. What the fuck? All Irish think whatever they want, and are in charge just because they're Irish? I don't think so. It's more individual than that. And for what it's worth, no offense, but I've known some thickheaded Irishmen that didn't know how to think at all. You're one of them.

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Date: Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 14:57:37 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Yes Subject: That was me Message:

That was me by the way, Dep. I meant to put 'Yes, sort of' all in the subject field, but accidentally put 'Yes' in the From field and 'Sort of' in the Subject field. What can I tell you? Must be because I've got some Irish in me.

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Date: Mon, Mar 13, 2000 at 19:51:55 (GMT) From: Deputy Dog Email: None To: Jerry Subject: No more posting when I'm hammered!!!! (NT) Message:

YEEEEEEEOOOOOWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 22:42:40 (GMT) From: tilly Email: None To: nigel Subject: thank you nigel Message:

Oh thank you buddy to feel sorry for me,thank you for correcting my english since it's not my first language,whow men thanks, big kisses xxxxx tilly

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 23:18:29 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: tilly Subject: Why won't you answer, Tilly? Message:

Have you posted here before or not? If so, under what name(s) and why?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 23:52:42 (GMT) From: tilly Email: None To: Jim Subject: Why post? Message:

Hi Jim, Is it posible for you to understand that new people get on the internet everday?or do we have to be in it for some time? Can you understand that one can come in because one just feels like it and that's it? Or does that nessesarry has to be because one already been in but now needs to use another name,,,,, Is it possible that I'm just there without haven't been hter before. Aferall who are YOU?Are you Jim or are you cathy or thios person calls happy?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 23:58:12 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: tilly Subject: Hey, relax, I was just asking Message:

Tilly, All I did was ask if you weren't posting either now or before as someone else. And I still haven't heard an answer. Well?

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 03:43:46 (GMT) From: tilly Email: None To: Jim Subject: no Jim it's my first time Message:

Right just a question,no I never have used another name before but you do give me an idea !!!!!!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 04:09:37 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Newkid Subject: Newkid Message:

Read everything you can on the ex-premie website and then decide for yourself. What you will hear at the introductory seminars is alot of hype that tries to whet your appetite, that's the bait. It will make you wonder if there is some incredible something in your life that is just out of reach, that's the bait again. 'The longing that we all have in our hearts' blah blah blah, well YEAH we all have longing in our hearts but there are other healthier ways to get that longing fulfilled besides worshipping a fat little money vampire. And maybe 'that longing' is not a bad thing but part of what makes us human and makes us try a little harder to reach out to another person. alot of us here practice the meditation still sometimes, but we have our thinking caps on now and we realize that the guru is a scam with some innocent and not so innocent people following him. Most of us ex-es regret that we got involved with Maha raji because it stunted our growth. So keep your eyes open & remember if it sounds too good to be true it is. But if you must go for it, be prepared to get into a scene where everyone blows sunshine up your butt all the time and will not affirm any of your doubts or human feelings. In other words, this be a cult.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 15:15:40 (GMT) From: Mike Email: None To: Helen Subject: Well said, Helen Message:

Helen: '.....be prepared to get into a scene where everyone blows sunshine up your butt all the time and will not affirm any of your doubts....' HOW TRUE! HOW TRUE! You did forget to mention that lying to oneself is of great benefit and actually a REQUIREMENT after their initial cult indoctrination phases are complete. I just don't understand how I missed this simple point prior to my own involvement. The denial of, or refusing to acknowledge, negative emotions within cult members is LYING to oneself. It's not only encouraged, it's REQUIRED for membership. 'Pay no attention, it's just Mr. Mind playing games with you.....' Yeah, right.... It's just LYING, nothing more. :-)

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 20:07:37 (GMT) From: Helen Email: None To: Mike Subject: Well said, Helen Message:

Mike Thanks, it has been so good to see you back on the forum. WOuld you mind emailing me sometime at your convenience? I want to ask you something for some research I am doing on a book. Thanks: HelenRDC@aol.com

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 16:58:55 (GMT) From: Happy Email: None To: newkid Subject: beware Message:

newkid, it is the same maharaji, DLM has changed into Elan Vital, but the guru is the same. Perhaps, in a sense, worse. When he was young, he might even have believed in it himself. Now he doesn't. He is only in it for the money and the fame. IMHO, he is a criminal. He pretends to be something he isn't, and cheats people of their money. Check carefully everything written on these sites, the archives, the journeys, the pictures, the quotes.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 22:52:51 (GMT) From: cai-jop Email: None To: everbody Subject: beware Message:

hi guys ,what do we have to shit on today? Something really new?

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 01:36:54 (GMT) From: DOD Email: None To: cai-jop--Catpoop Subject: beware the golden shitter Message:

Hi guys, what do we have to shit on today? Something really new? Dear Catpoop: We could use Maharaji's 14 K gold toilet. Would you ask him if you can borrow it? Look, buddy. You've been shit on every since you joined the cult. The only problem is you can't smell it anymore. Try to remember a time when the cult did stink to you. Hmmmmm!

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:43:49 (GMT) From: Happy Email: None To: Everyone Subject: 'Baby Pranayama' Message:

Hi all, Some weeks ago, I mentioned in a post that the so called Word technique is well-known in India under the name 'Baby Pranayama'. To prove my point, please read the following excerpt from the book 'Am I a Hindu?': **************************************************************** 'BABY PRANAYAMA' 'Hamsa or the method popularly known as Baby Pranayama is the easiest and safest method [of meditation] of all. /...../ Hamsa literally means swan--the beautiful white birds that swim in silent lakes. In Hinduism, the swan also symbolizes purity and tranquility. In this method, one indirectly chants the Mantra 'Sah-Aham', meaning 'He is I'. It is also worth noticing that when a man inhales he makes the noise 'Ham' or 'Aham'. When a man exhales he makes the noise 'Sa' or 'Sah'. Now coming back to the main point, the Hamsa method is the method of watching the incoming and outgoing breaths (inhalation and exhalation) without interfering with the rhythm of the breathing. The method is very simple. You may sit or stand or lie down in whatever position you like. You can do it at any time of the day or night. You can do it at any place. You can do it for as long as you like. Prior to following this method, if it helps, then you may do deep breathing exercises to induce 'rhythmic breathing' in your system for five to ten minutes. Now let me elaborate on the actual Hamsa method: Just watch your inhalation and exhalation without interfering with the process of breathing, without even trying to control chest or nostril movements. Do not even try to change the rhythm of the breathing. ********************** Excerpts from Ed Viswanathan (1999): Am I a Hindu? The Hinduism Primer. New Delhi: Rupa & Co. pp. 187- 188. (also published by Halo Books, San Francisco, 1992)

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 04:53:41 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Happy Subject: 'Baby Pranayama' and Hindu/Mahadaya belief Message:

Meditation is one thing. For what it's worth. Be a vegetarian is also one thing. And their story says: if you're a vegetarian, if you practise some meditation, if you don't eat the holy beef, plus maybe a few other things, then you are a hindu! If you listen to the mahahaha, if you believe in his magic power, and if you practice his secret techniques, then you are a special person - a premie - a lover of truth, which really is a lover or the lie! Hahahahaha. How can one be so stupid and buy that sort of crap? I'm amazed, I guess I'll always be amazed, seeing how easily human beings are ready to believe ANYTHING. I can imagine the next perfect master: if you're ready to listen to Her Divine Melody, if you're able to extaticly watch her praise her divine father, you'll be a devotee of the Dayahaha! Hahahaha. I'm sure she'll not even mention the techniques anymore, and the secret will actually be a secret. I've heard there is even a video where she sings together with her father ...... I'm going to watch it!!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 16:55:39 (GMT) From: G Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Video of her singing with her father Message:

Yes, there certainly is. It was from an event in India, I think from last November. She sings 'night and day', which her daddy wrote. I heard 'Maharaji' say once years ago 'You don't want to hear me sing'. I found out why in this video. One person posting here described it as donkey singing. I don't think it was quite that bad, but it certainly wasn't good, he was loud and off key. This 'night and day' song was very repetitive and boring, both in lyrics and melody, 'I will be with you night and day... night and day... night and day....I will be with you night and day........' He had half the crowd sing, then the other half join in later, like in 'row, row, row your boat'. Prem was being critical of the premies in the crowd for something like not singing loud enough or not in unison, just like he did many years ago. Years ago he said something like 'I notice that not all the premies sing in unison'. Yep, premies are never good enough for him. And he likes to boss people around. I remember singing along a couple of times to this 'night and day', but then I couldn't take it anymore. It was just too pathetic. This is when it really started to sink in how much of an egomaniac he is. He seemed so proud of his mediocre song and less than mediocre singing. And what was this song about? About how premies should think about him all the time. Yuck.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 22:20:56 (GMT) From: Runamok Email: None To: Happy Subject: Special Premie Breathing Techniques Message:

In spite of numerous breathing techniques in yoga, the hollowing of the upper throat to produce more sound is the most common. It was also a common, if unspoken technique in premiedom and is naturally conducive to focusing on the breath. Breathing more deeply was also encouraged. Of course the problem with both of these unspoken techniques is they are so well imitated by sleep.. ....................................another common, unspoken premie meditation technique.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 01:08:41 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk To: Runamok Subject: Ashram Premie Breathing Techniques Message:

Of course, if you meditate on your breath (not the hamsa mantra) then the breathing rate does slow down. Also, once in that state there is no need to 'try' any more. Beragons were a good design because when the meditator finally did fall asleep, their balance was lost and the beragon (and premie) fell with a crash onto the satsang room floor, thereby waking up all the other premies who had not resisted temptation and had leaned against the wall to go deep into peaceful slumber.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 02:52:04 (GMT) From: Runamok Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Ashram Premie Breathing Techniques Message:

Right, if it works, your breathing slows down and gets deeper, but whether forcing it helps or not is decent question- especially for post-M'rage meditators. There are statistics that show deep breathing in itself produces health benefits associated with aerobic exercise. If you think about it, people jog, run and do all that stuff in part to deepen their breathing, and make it longer (even though when you run breath faster and you're heart is racing). Aerobic exercise is a related alternative for the ex who doesn't know what to do.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 12:33:44 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Schoolboy Breathing Techniques Message:

I'd say any excercise is damn good if you can do it. I actually think that meditation is also a physical activity with physical effects only it's more localised. I'm not advocating meditation and I believe its effects can go either way, depending on circumstances and the individual. Do you remember the feeling of bliss that you used to feel after you'd finished a grueling cross-country running race when you were a schoolboy? I don't know the full biological or physiological explanation for that feeling but it made the three mile hell of the race seem worth it!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 13:47:01 (GMT) From: Runamok Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Comparison Shopping- Message:

Enodorphins are the fast burning buzz. Slowing down your heart rate and deeper (and slower) respiration are long term effects of aerobics. It is similar to what we were or are after in meditation - worth the comparison (shopping-style) especially for people who are bummed with meditating in their post-devotional state.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 20:15:46 (GMT) From: JB Email: None To: All Subject: Breathing tech Message:

Ya know it was never the breathing that was so imp. to me. It was getting to a place where there is a 'vibration' almost a 'humm' that takes place fr my pubic symphisis up through my abdomen and chest to my throat area. A warm, hugging type feeling. I've felt it for weeks at a time and always thought that was the primordial vibration or the 'Word' - not the breathing itself, but what was behind or under the breathing. My discription isn't the best. It was a feeling I instantly remembered feeling in my crib- this safe, 'being hugged' feeling. I never quite understood this 'So Hum or Hum-so' sound w/ breathing - like who cares when underneath there is this fantastic warm 'thing' going up and down the middle chakras like drinking cognac. Know what I'm talking about? JB

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 02:15:39 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk To: JB Subject: Here is the weather Message:

No I never felt that. I have got very deep into meditation but I can't say it was like you describe. This means that ones experience is totally subjective. There is no Truth but there are different and varying experiences. For instance, for no apparent reason today I felt for about 20 minutes, completely high to the point of feeling that I was melting or expanding or something. Now this wasn't caused by doing any meditation because I haven't done any for some weeks. And yet the last time I meditated I felt depressed afterwards. So I surmise that there's no truth within - just many and varied experiences that we all have and which come and go like the weather.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 20:45:03 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: JB Subject: Breathing tech Message:

It's all biochemical, JB. Not that that's a bad thing. It's just that it's good to understand that how we feel, and perceive things, is determined by the chemistry of our central nervous system. This way we can avoid getting tangled up in new age mumbo-jumbo, which doesn't really help in defining what alternate states of consciousness are. It very well may be that as we further evolve, as a species, a new consciousness will evolve along with it, for the simple reason that our brains will have evolved in a manner that gives life to a new consciousness, perhaps the very consciousness that is spoken of by the mystics. In time, millenium from now, that type of consciousness might be the norm, rather than the exception. But who knows? A millenium from now, if human consciousness is still around, it could very well be because it was dowloaded into a computer.

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 22:12:00 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: Jerry Subject: funny you should mention... Message:

Jerry wrote: It very well may be that as we further evolve, as a species, a new consciousness will evolve along with it, for the simple reason that our brains will have evolved in a manner that gives life to a new consciousness, perhaps the very consciousness that is spoken of by the mystics. In time, millenium from now, that type of consciousness might be the norm, rather than the exception. This is Bucke's thesis as well (see above).

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 23:45:10 (GMT) From: JB Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Breathing tech Message:

Jer, I hear ya - it's all bio-chemical. I agree. The thing with me is I think God is ALL biochemical and intelligence beyond imagination and the most brilliant mathematician and phycisist and microbiologist and well, you get the picture. JB

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 01:45:08 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: JB Subject: Why call it God? Message:

The thing with me is I think God is ALL biochemical and intelligence beyond imagination and the most brilliant mathematician and phycisist and microbiologist and well, you get the picture. Actually, JB, I don't. Doesn't God suggest a creator? Isn't that what the word means? It seems to me that you've just redefined the word because, well, you felt like it. I know from my own experience that consciousness can be heightened, awareness can be crystallized, and you can find yourself in some nice spaces as a result. For instance, like a baby in a crib, like you described. But I think if we're to communicate these unusual states of consciousness with each other, great care should be taken with the language we use. If we're going to use the word 'God', for instance, we should have a common understanding of what that means. To me, it means the creator, a father figure, loving and merciful, all wise and omnipotent. I think this is the standard definition for people raised in the western world. If you've had an experience of such a being in your life, than yes, I'd say you've had an experience of God. But if you haven't encountered such a being, as far as I'm concerned, you experienced something else. Perhaps a oneness with things? A bond with things outside yourself that you don't ordinarilly feel? This, to me isn't experiencing God, not by the normal definition. I don't mean to nitpick. I just think that more respect for the language, and a usage of words in the context that they're most probably understood, is important if any worthwhile communication is to occur between people. Otherwise, we just invite in confusion.

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 22:26:30 (GMT) From: Stonor Email: None To: Jerry Subject: Why call it God? Message:

You are right that this definition conflict does seem to confuse the issues. Perhaps that's why others leave 'it' unnamed. As a child I thought they must think me stupid to think I'd believe in the 'standard definition' you describe, ignored it, and moved on on my own 'way'. Your concept of 'whatever it is' is much like mine and Bucke's. Likewise the experience Sir David describes a few posts up, as well as Runamok's comment on the aerobic effect. Any suggestions for new terminology?

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Date: Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 02:51:51 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Stonor Subject: Why call it God? Message:

Your concept of 'whatever it is' is much like mine and Bucke's. Hi, Stonor. I'm not the guy who said 'whatever it is'. You've got me confused with somebody else. To me, God means creator, period. Why fuck with that? Why give the word 'God' all these modern new age definitions? It already has a definition. If that doesn't fit with what you mean to say, don't use the word. That's my take on it. Any suggestions for new terminology? I think the words already exist for what we want to say. It's just a matter of taking care to. You're really into Richard Bucke, eh? I read that book back in the daze. It was required premie reading. Heh, heh. I didn't get much out of it, though. I was much more into Carlos Casteneda. A Separate Reality hooked me from beginning to end. You might want to follow up on Jim's suggestion to read Blind Watchmaker. Dawkins is a fine author, and his book is an excellent primer for people interested in understanding, more deeply, the theory of evolution. I found him invigorating. How's that for expressing what you mean to say. That was exactly the word I was looking for. I don't always find them, but when I do, I always get a rush knowing that I'm saying what I want to.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:55:11 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Mirror Subject: Mirror, try this poem instead Message:

Mirror, Since you didn't like Anarchist's poem, maybe you would like Jim Sakshaug's latest poem from Enjoyinglife: The Combination The human I/eye can experience infinite life, if the lock is unlocked. Three clicks, then four clicks, then continue on with three more clicks. This causes a transformation series to fall into place, unlocking the lock. Sound complicated? It's not really. All that's needed is the living master, his direction and key, and me; for me to be free to feel and see. This should be more up your alley. But, for the benefit of the exes, could you explain the references to different numbered clicks? I don't think we had these in my day. Perhaps the first three clicks are SSM, the four clicks are: master, student, knowledge, and darshan; and the second three clicks are PPP. I'm just guessing. Seriously, Mirror, I'm not sure your presence here is healthy for you. Many of the comments you make are not persuasive enough to be taken seriously and the discussion degenerates into people calling each other stupid. I'm not saying that all of what you had to say below is poppycock. But I think you should examine your motives and what you are trying to accomplish by engaging the exes in name calling. Surely you realize it's hardly demonstrative of the experience of Knowledge. I have yet to see a premie come here and spread a little Truth and Bliss around. The most interesting point about Sakshaug's poem above is the line 'All that's needed is the living master.' Well... plus ca change, plus ca reste la meme chose.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 22:51:14 (GMT) From: mir Email: None To: Way Subject: Way that is such a joke Message:

I have for the most part not engaged in name calling. For the most part I have presented my views without emotion. You folks on the other hand have called me a number of names. If you are going to judge me, at least judge yourselves by the same standards.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 04:28:18 (GMT) From: Jim Email: None To: mir Subject: I can explain that, fuckhead Message:

This comes up a lot around here. Premies post illogical and stupid stuff, often in brazen disregard for the truth that we all once experienced together and then get upset when we lose our cool. Well that's waht you get when you offend someone's sensibilities. You get barked at. Personally, I've always thought that there's no language scathing enough for you creeps. But then that's just my opinion.

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 00:12:34 (GMT) From: The Mirror Email: None To: Jim Subject: Charming fellow! Message:

Let me see if I understand where you are coming from Jim. I come here and present arguments that are contrary to yours. These arguments though contrary to yours, have been I think pretty rational, and based on the feedback I got from some exes, “are not all poppycock”. This is what is called dialog. Within a democracy this is considered healthy. But you have no qualms calling me stupid and an idiot and generally venting your intolerance towards me because of my differing opinions--something I haven’t done back to anyone here, no matter what Mike says. So what you are saying in this post of yours (and demonstrated in the subject line) is if I don’t agree with you, you are justified in hurling all manner of what I consider unprovoked abuse my way. But as Way points out, I should be humble and holy in my responses to you because I’m a premie. Can’t you see how irrational you all look? Can't you see how right-winged are your politics? The underlying ethos demonstrated by you is one of intolerance and disrespect for others. In this respect you are no different than the religious right or the neo-nazi party…not in your beliefs, but in your intolerance. You have your opinions about Maharaji that you are entitled to Jim. One thing you are NOT entitled to is the level of degradation you exude in response to a fair debate. I can only say that if you represent the mindset of the ex-premie “community”, then y’all certainly are no threat to Maharaji’s work. You may as well prepare yourself right now for life on the same margin as other right wing fanatical groups, like the religious right and neo-nazis. If that is your choice, so be it. Myself, I am happy living on the margin with people who have understood life’s simple magic. Don’t mind if the rest of the world joins me, but don’t really care if they do.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 23:44:35 (GMT) From: Mike Email: None To: mir Subject: Why didn't you answer the question, mir? Message:

mir: First, YOU regularly attempt to put people down by referring, in some thinly-veiled way, to their lack of intelligence. You will note that I hadn't referred to you by any negative terms (e.g. stupid or anything else) prior to you making said 'intelligence' reference in your post below. If you would like to dispute that, let's take a walk down below and look at the time-stamps on a few posts. If that wasn't an 'emotional' post, then I would like to see you being emotional (so that I can compare). If you want to make yourself out to be a saint, you had better be sure of what the 'standards' are before you open your mouth. Second, why didn't you answer Way's question about the 'clicks?' It was a simple question and would only require a few seconds of your time to answer it. I'm sure the answer wouldn't get you in any trouble with M, so why not? (Unless, of course, that's the actual combination to M's money-vault). Were you just too busy, trying to make yourself into a martyr, to answer the question? Gee, I hope that wasn't it because you wasted your time on something that you can't do..... you blew it already.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 15:26:50 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Mike Subject: Thanks, Mike (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 16:23:56 (GMT) From: Mike Email: None To: Way Subject: The pleasure was all mine! :-) (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 01:29:42 (GMT) From: mirror Email: None To: Mike Subject: What are you guys? Message:

A WWF tag team or super ninja turtles?

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 15:32:21 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: mirror Subject: What are you guys? Message:

Mirror, Sorry for the high-fives that Mike and I exchanged at your expense. But what do you expect when you venture into enemy territory. You are going to get ganged up on - it's inevitable. (or unevitable, as Rawat used to say). As for Jim, there is only one way to deal with him. Make damned sure what you are saying has the full-force of truth behind it, no wishful thinking, no lame logic, no cherished concepts, and for God's sake, no premie-speak. Even then he's liable to jump all over you. Get used to it. If you can see him as a lover of truth, (or at least a hater of bullshit), you might even appreciate him now and then. And, BTW, I am not trying to tell you to be humble and meek in response, (as you seem to have interpreted my earlier posts to you). I'm trying to tell you to be completely truthful. And, really, Mir, I don't think you've been entirely upfront with us. For instance, you could admit to us and to yourself that Rawat has no monopoly on human joy, not even in your own personal experience. To claim otherwise is only to make us all barf. Understand?

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 18:29:37 (GMT) From: mir Email: None To: Way Subject: What are you guys? Message:

For instance, you could admit to us and to yourself that Rawat has no monopoly on human joy, not even in your own personal experience. Who ever said he did. Human joy is inherent to the human.

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 20:16:47 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: mir Subject: What are you guys? Message:

Well, that's a start.

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Date: Sun, Mar 12, 2000 at 03:13:46 (GMT) From: Mike Email: None To: Way Subject: He's contradicting M, though Message:

Way: In one of JM's post above, there is a link to a scanned document where M is thanking everyone for buying his house..... In that document, M calls it HIS knowledge.... specifically! So, M himself has said that it is HIS knowledge (thus, obviously NOT our own). If mir wants to find the post, look for my incredulous response with the subject 'HIS KNOWLEDGE????' JM's post is right above it. So, who's lying now? Mir, it's you or him..... you both can't be right because what you said and what M wrote are two opposite things!

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 14:57:14 (GMT) From: Mike Email: None To: mirror Subject: Now, that was new..... Message:

Mir: Neither of the above, but that was a pretty funny image nonetheless! :-)

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 20:10:36 (GMT) From: DOD Email: None To: Mirror Subject: Or this one, Mirror Message:

Mirror, Mirror on the wall. Who's the fairest of them all? Not you anymore--(Maharaji circa 1993) What he forgets to say is that he has become the fairest of them all to you. You have given him the centre stage of yourself. He is more precious than your spouse, children, parents, siblings, and lifelong friends. You believe you love him completely even though he is a total stranger. Why is that? YOU ARE BRAINWASHED!!!!! In fact, I have never met anyone else who did so little for so much worldly gain. Is he really so detached from the world? WHAT HAS HE DONE FOR YOU?--robbed you of your time, money, and dreams.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 20:34:44 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: None To: DOD Subject: Or this one, Mirror Message:

Hey don't start putting in the clever font stuff or he'll think it's me again. Dave - the peace and love, everything's beautiful type guy.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:49:18 (GMT) From: Mu Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Qualities to become realized ;-) Message:

To become realized one must meet the following ten requirements: 1. Ten years study of zen buddhism 2. Five years study of Tibetan buddhism 3. A deep understanding of Thomas Aquinis 4. Able to channel akashic records 5. Able to manifest miracles 6. Transport self to alternate dimensions at will 7. Quote vast passages of Ken Wilbur from memory 8. Studied under no less than five living Perfect Masters 9. Have 10 past lifes as priests and or priestesses 10. See no difference between self and a pile of shit HAHAHAHAH and HOHOHOHO!

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 22:48:11 (GMT) From: JB Email: None To: Mu Subject: No. 10's My Favorite (nt) Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 20:26:36 (GMT) From: DOD Email: None To: Mu Subject: Qualities to become realized ;-) Message:

You might add: Desperate to find answers regardless of how flimsy; Easily fooled and willing to be gullible enough to accept stupid doctrines which have absolutely no basis in reality; Eager to allow someone else to run one's life; And finally, a deep-rooted desire to erase one's own self in favour of an entirely new identity.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 22:03:52 (GMT) From: Mu Email: None To: DOD Subject: Terminally Gullible too ;-) nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:43:38 (GMT) From: Haldor the Baldor Email: None To: Mu Subject: Qualities to become realized ;-) Message:

Mu, I am sure you are the teacher I need. I've found you at last. How much do you charge? How may I serve you master?

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:58:06 (GMT) From: Mu Email: None To: Haldor the Baldor Subject: Qualities to become realized ;-) Message:

Just help yourself to the beans and rice. Be the bestest person you know how. Laugh when happy Cry when sad Eat when hungry Be good when being bad (if you know what I mean) Don't take yourself too serious And you won't go too mad! And if you ever call me master again, I'll turn you into a bucket of shit.;-) So then you can be the master! HAHAHAHAH and HOHOHOHO! Peace on ya! - Mu PS The usual fee is a buck two fifty -)

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 19:45:42 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Mu Subject: You another of those justified ancients, Mu? (nt) Message:

You another of those justified ancients, Mu? (nt)

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 22:32:24 (GMT) From: Mu Email: None To: cq Subject: Nah, cq, Mu is nothing ;-) Message:

One of my favorite images is of the laughing buddha. There are two I especially like, actually. One is the sitting fat buddha who has his head thrown back in a great big belly laugh. The other is of the dancing and laughing buddha. I am not a buddhist though the name Mu comes from that tradition. It quite literally means no thing. That pertains to what gautama supposedly said when he attained realization. He said there is nothing to realize. He said that there is no enlightenment. There is freedom. Not when we give our lives over to some fat little god-con like rawat. Freedom comes when we choose to live the best lives we can. For me that means freedom from religion, gurus, politics and fear. OK OK OK I lied! I'm about 4 million years old! I remember all of my past lives! I am the most ancient of days! In all of them I had countless followers! This modern age is too much! I can't keep a follower more than five years! The bastards just keep waking up! HAHAHAHAH and HOHOHOHO! Peace - Mu

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Date: Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 16:47:19 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: Mu Subject: There's waking up and there's ... Message:

Mu, - there's waking up and there's ... OLD CHINESE TALE A man had been lost and wandering in the Chinese wilderness for three months. All he had to eat was what he could forage and he was forced to sleep wherever he could find shelter. One day he came upon an old farm house. In answer to his knock an old Chinese gentleman asked: - What do you want? - I have been lost in the wilderness for three months and have not had a decent meal or a nights sleep in just as long. May I stay the night? The old man agreed under the condition that there be no messing with his granddaughter. - I will cause you no trouble, the man said. - That's very good, said the old man. Because if I catch you with my granddaughter, you will suffer the three most severe Chinese tortures. The granddaughter attended the evening meal and the man was awestruck by her beauty. Since he had been alone for so long and she had not been with a man in her life, they could hardly keep their eyes off each other during the meal. Later that night the man crept into her room and they had a terrific time together. They were careful to be quiet lest they awaken the grandfather. Afterwards, the man returned to his room on the third floor, and he thought: 'That marvelous experience was worth enduring a thousand tortures.' He then fell promptly asleep and had the best sleep in three months. Upon awakening, he felt an incredible weight on his chest. He then realized that there was a 20 pound rock on his chest. On the rock was a sign that read: 'You have sex with granddaughter! 1st Chinese torture - Rock on chest!' This is some torture thought the man as he carried it over to the window and threw it out. Then he noticed another sign on the bottom of the rock: '2nd Chinese torture - Right testicle tied to rock!' Knowing that it was too late to catch the rock, the man hurled himself out of the window after it. Passing through the window the man saw a third sign on the window ledge: '3rd Chinese torture - Left testicle tied to bedpost!'

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Date: Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 17:21:07 (GMT) From: Mu Email: None To: cq Subject: LOL and busting a gut! Too too good! nt Message:

nt

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:05:31 (GMT) From: JANUS Email: None To: Everyone Subject: MAHARAJI Message:

HI FROM A EX

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:26:46 (GMT) From: JANUS Email: None To: EVERYBODY Subject: MAHARAJI Message:

I JUST SEEN THESE PAGES TODAY

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:13:31 (GMT) From: JB Email: None To: JANUS Subject: MAHARAJI Message:

Welcome, you're an excited little girl aren't ya. You should be this Forum is fun - also check out Anything goes and the Pemies and friends site all very interesting and you can read past posts and the Journeys section and also the info on how to post is extremely helpful. Did you just get a computer or just had time to search alittle for this site? And yes tell us a little about yourself - I always like to picture at least vaquely wherabouts you are w/ out giving away too much -like east coast USA or whatever your comfortable revealing. Some here tell there full names and locations, others are very anonymous. Comfort is the main thing. And if someone disagrees w/ you strongly don't take it too seriously. People here usually end up apologizing when they get it off their chests it seems. Again welcome, JB

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 15:20:51 (GMT) From: janus Email: None To: JB Subject: MAHARAJI Message:

hi i am from denmark i was in dlm from 75 to 90

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 15:57:34 (GMT) From: Sir Dave Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk To: janus Subject: Another Danish premie Message:

Did you or do you know a premie called Erick Thorel. (It may be Thorrel or Thorell). He was from Denmark and I knew him in London in 1972 and also 1976. He was a good guy.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 17:43:24 (GMT) From: janus Email: None To: Sir Dave Subject: Another Danish premie Message:

no i never knew him

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:11:13 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: JANUS Subject: MAHARAJI Message:

Welcome Janus! Anything you'd like to tell us about? Of course, you don't have to, as confidentiality is respected here, but it's always nice to know a little about each other in this growing community:-) John Brauns also an ex.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:39:22 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Insights/Brian Tracy new website in France!!! Message:

Looks like my posts had some effects ! Management et Performance's website in France. This is Marc Levitte's (Rawat's personal assistant for intl events) company, now selling his Insights and Brian Tracy seminars on the web ! I don't know if they have special prices for premies. Maybe for exes? What are the qualifications of the persons managing the seminars ? They're going to hate me for that question I guess !

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:59:42 (GMT) From: Runamok Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Is this JR seminars? Message:

Is it correct that it is John-Rogers who developed this brand of seminar?

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 17:05:34 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Runamok Subject: Is this JR seminars? Message:

JR's are 'Insight'. These are 'Insights'. I find it curious ...... and it looks like JR has a whole galaxy of different organizations.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:08:58 (GMT) From: Runamok Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Is these JR seminars? Message:

Looks like JR really has reached a scientology-level of fighting back against anti-cultists. I really haven't kept up with the whole story but it seemsd he managed to shut David Lane up at least in part, which I'm sure required considerable threat either financial or otherwise to do (given Lane's singularly outspoken anti-cult point of view).

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:49:35 (GMT) From: Happy Email: None To: all Subject: 'What to do when your guru sues you' Message:

Have any of you read the book 'What to do when your guru sues you'? It's an excellent book, written buy John-Roger's former right hand, who defected. A good friend of David Lane's, btw. I highly recommend the book.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 22:12:44 (GMT) From: Gregg Email: None To: Happy Subject: Yeah, I read it... Message:

...and it was quite a book. J-R appeared as a deluded monster. Just amazing. It used to be on trancenet, and isn't, perhaps because of the suit, I don't know. Trancenet has a lot of good cult links and Eastern religious documents, etc.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 20:10:57 (GMT) From: Runamok Email: None To: Happy Subject: 'What to do when your guru sues you' Message:

Do you know the poop on the John-Rogers - David Lane imbroglio. THere was some stuff on the neural surfer site which was supposed to be part of a book (as I recall). That was replaced by a short notice that the information wouldn't be posted (but would be sold in book form?) and now it's all gone. Even though Lane's site is pretty well organised these days, it's still pretty big and I could have missed some material, but didn't see any relevant titles to the JR story when I look two days ago.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:12:30 (GMT) From: la ex Email: None To: Everyone Subject: seminars Message:

can someone please explain the whole deal about the seminar craze? where did they originate, is m running them now, how much, what goes on, where, how many participants etc?

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 17:03:39 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: la ex Subject: Rawat's seminars Message:

Rawat is managing himself seminars with the active premies Read this info 85 persons together for 1 week trainings. And premies are also into seminars and trainings in every country. Check the other links on my website (Elan Vital Today). Of course premies are VERY much reluctant to speak about them.... This is confidential stuff, and this post will destroy the Forum in 5 seconds ..... hahaha

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 03:09:26 (GMT) From: bb Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: 'the speaker-your discretion-confidential' Message:

How in the world did I but into this guy during my wonder years? Its a long road from 'our lord is the maker of all things created' thank you JM

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:19:00 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Judas Iscariot Message:

Well I guess Jesus had one traitor amongst 12, so it's reasable for M to have at least one traitor amongst 85. Anyway Judas, whoever you are, well done! I bet EV and M are running around like blue-arsed flies trying to identify who you are! All the best, John.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:09:31 (GMT) From: Ben Lurking Email: None To: JHB Subject: Judas Iscariot Message:

No there is rom for 85 surely at least twice that were invited so its 1 out of 170 or higher

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:00:56 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Rawat's seminars Message:

Alright, that's 85 people at $5,000 each attendee. Right? That's $425,000 he's raking in for a week's work. Not bad. I wonder how much of that goes to M and how much stay with the PAMs' businesses that he's using for this 'motivation' horseshit. Damn, this boy know how to rake it in, don't he? And it sure pays to be a PAM, don't it? Un-fucking-believable!

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:22:07 (GMT) From: JHB Email: None To: Jerry Subject: $5000 Message:

How do you know it's $5000 per person? Not doubting you, but just interested. John.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:39:40 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: JHB Subject: $5000 Message:

One guy to whom the seminar was offered was asked for that amount. He'll tell you the exact figures. Maybe Marc is having special prices for premies and/or exes !!!! Ask him ! Frank, on the French forum. Talk to him.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:58:15 (GMT) From: El Magnifico! Email: None To: All seminar attendees! Subject: $5 I am still the best deal on the planet! Message:

If you are smart enough to figure out where to send the 5 bucks, you are ready to worship ME - El Magnifico! Is this not a much better deal that that pudgy little nobody? YES IT IS! For I AM El Magnifico! Ciao, baby!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 00:40:01 (GMT) From: Mike Email: None To: El Magnifico! Subject: Psst..... El..... over here..... Message:

El: you wouldn't be related to Guru Mariachi, now would you?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 01:48:16 (GMT) From: El Magnifico! Email: None To: Mike Subject: Psst..... El..... over here..... Message:

We Do NOT talk about THAT side of the family!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 15:21:11 (GMT) From: Mike Email: None To: El Magnifico! Subject: Oh great..... Message:

El: Now how do I determine which of you guys to follow? I mean, you both say the same thing..... you both give the same 'gift'.... you both need my 'gratitude' for some reason (even though you are both supposed to be god)..... Neither of you does charitable works or provides any other evidence of sainthood or divinity. Man, this is a tough one! Why can't this be easier? Coca Cola or Pepsi..... which is the REAL thing? ANSWER: Neither of them, they are both synthesized (e.g. fake). (When was the last time you saw a coca cola spring or a pepsi tree?) he he he :-)

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 15:52:07 (GMT) From: El Magnifico! Email: None To: Mike Subject: I am not god - I just want your money! Message:

I am only offering a service. The service is that I offer myself as an object of worship. Not everyone should take advantage of my most generous offer. People like you for example. People who have a strong sense of identity and who know how to think for themselves. Now excuse me for a minute, I have to make some money. I El Magnifico! am here for you to worship! Send $5 in unmarked bills to the El Magnifico! retirement fund and you too will be qualified to worship MY MAGNIFIGENCE!

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Date: Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 13:45:56 (GMT) From: I Email: None To: El Magnifico! Subject: I AM God! Message:

Now, the truth is out! El Magnifico admits that he is not God! But I will never admit to such a thing. I AM GOD! Would you pay good money to worhip I, otherwise? Of course not. You're not fools. So send your money to I, instead. And remember, my prices are bargain basement. JUST 3 DOLLARS! HOW CAN YOU GO WRONG? And don't forget about that money back guarantee. This deal is just too good to pass up. Why if I wan't God, I'd send in 3 dollars, myself. Hurry now, while the offer still stands! Call 555-IAM-INHEAVEN. Have Visa or Mastercard ready. Money back guarantee if you are not fully satisfied within 30 days.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 21:10:14 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: El Magnifico! Subject: I just want your money! Do you do blow-jobs?(nt) Message:

El Magnifico! Do you do blow-jobs?(nt)

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Date: Fri, Mar 10, 2000 at 01:02:06 (GMT) From: El Magnifico! Email: None To: cq Subject: No stupid you DON'T get anything out of it! nt Message:

Been drinking again?

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Date: Sat, Mar 11, 2000 at 12:04:12 (GMT) From: cq Email: None To: El Magnifico! Subject: Not even a little whiff of the old holy breath? nt Message:

Not even a little whiff of the old holy breath? nt

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 09:41:26 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Everyone Subject: There's really One Source of Agya! Message:

Remember that one? One of m's most important letters!

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 18:35:41 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Remember that one? Congratulations! Message:

Dear Premies, Congratulations ! You have just received Knowledge and l hope you have understood it too. You know this Knowledge is like food. It can just be there and will be of no use unless eaten; it will be of benefit to no one. It's only going to be worthwhile if you eat it. Only then can you enjoy it. Since now you have received this Knowledge it is your duty to do meditation, service, and satsang, and understand this Knowledge through these means. Let me also remind you and caution you about something and that is your mind. This mind is really going to be freaked out because Knowledge is its antidote. And therefore in the future this mind might really begin to bother you. But do not be bothered, just keep on truckin', just keep on going. Believe it, it will certainly go away. Further, keep in touch. Love is everlasting. Happy meditation, satsang, and service. Yours, Guru Maharaj Ji To continually oversee the operations of the Mission, Maharaj Ji plans to make regular stops in Denver between festivals and other engagements. That was part of the 'Knowledge Package', now online.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 03:13:12 (GMT) From: bb Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: JM Message:

JM. Email me your address. bburke@rocketmail.com

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 15:36:24 (GMT) From: Susan Email: None To: Jean-Michel my hero Subject: great thing to have on your site Message:

Doesn't that just say it all? Any premie who reads that is going to have to REALLY listen to his heart in order to deal with it. Listen toyour hearts premies, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 14:58:41 (GMT) From: DOD Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: There's really One Source of Agya! Message:

Nowadays, of course, he never said any such thing--RIGHT! Thanks for the reminder.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 05:55:38 (GMT) From: ET Email: 74452.1254@compuserve.com To: Everyone Subject: Mr. Natural Meets Maharaji Message:

If you haven't already seen in, click here to see this *hilarious* comic. -ET

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 00:03:17 (GMT) From: Remy Email: None To: Everyone Subject: Bliss and Godhead, please clarify Message:

To all those articulate Exs, I was hoping you might offer up more about the terms I see here 'bliss' and 'god'. 'Bliss' seems to me a very 'knowledge/meditation' type state...I was wondering what role it plays in the premie world. Also, is M still claiming to be god, godlike or a 'perfect master'? These, though all dis-illusional, seem to be very different things to me. I was also interested in a discussion somewhere down referred to as 'Stepford Wives' - there was a discussion regarding video droned new premies versus old world ashram premies. Still there are 'communities'...but in the new video world, apparently they aren't nearly as community-ish. It was mentioned that part of the appeal was that premies seemed so loving to each other. Is that why that line about 'no personal relationships' seemed to rile everyone so much?

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 15:26:27 (GMT) From: DOD Email: None To: Remy Subject: Bliss and Godhead, please clarify Message:

I was hoping you might offer up more about the terms I see here 'bliss' and 'god'. In the old days, Maharaji was God in Human form. The bliss (natural high) was his gift to us. Even practise of satsang, service, and meditation did not guarantee the bliss state. Only Maharaji's grace gave the beggar devotee this experience. In order to revise his past, Maharaji changed his name three times and his organization's name twice. He had to promote the end of community-ish and personal relationships as the correct behaviour. Otherwise, the new brainwash would not have worked. I heard him trash new age groups for using lotus' or swans in their videos. That very same night, his own video content included both a swan and a lotus. Of course, none of us realized that our blessed Maharaji was merely a new-age cult leader using the same tactics he criticized other groups for. Of course not--he was still our Lord even though we didn't say it out loud.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 11:47:09 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Remy Subject: Bliss and Godhead, some clarification... Message:

why that line about 'no personal relationships' seemed to rile everyone so much? This is one of the most delusory and deceptive thing in premie world. I'd say that the 'warmth' of the group is very attractive in the beginning. And Rawat 'appears' like a warm and loving figure. Then slowly, as your involvement increases, there is definitely what you might call a 'love feeling' growing inside of you. 'That Love' feeling is the result of the cult phenomenon, a lot has already been written and said about it. The problem is that 'that love' is mistakenly attributed to Rawat, when he's merely a cold and distant figure. And this is where it's important that the premies, instructors etc don't get in the middle. 'That Love' HAS TO BE attributed to Rawat, that's the programming. If there is anybody in-between, the programming fails more or less. Rawat's always been VERY ADAMANT on this during the instructors' trainings, and in EV's organizers' conferences. Of course he doesn't say all this, anybody can understand why, but he's always made it very clear: aspirants and premies don't need anybody in-between, they shouldn't attribute 'that love' to anybody except HIM! AND THEN the abuse is ready to start. The link is established between the 'master' and the 'student', i.e. Rawat is the source of 'that love' feeling. I'd go even beyond this: most active premies (including myself) behave this way with everybody in their lives. You can imagine the results. And you can also imagine how difficult it becomes to understand what's wrong, and how difficult it becomes to go back to 'normal'. I still have to sometimes force me doing 'normal' things! Like thanking friends, having 'normal' conversations etc ..... What's good now is that at least I can see what I should do .... and I'm in touch with my 'normal' feelings. Why don't you read : Shamans, Mystics and Doctors (Alfred A. Knopf, Inc., New York), by Sudhir Kakar. S. Kakar is an Indian psychoanalyst, practicing in Bombay. He studied in the US. He analyses several Indian mystic groups, including the branch of Radha Soami led by Charan Singh. This is very well documented study, and is interesting as it is analyzed by an Indian western minded psychoanalyst. I like his studies. The 'Guru Papers' is also an excellent one!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 01:28:54 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Jean-Michel Subject: Bliss and Godhead, some clarification... Message:

I still have to sometimes force me doing 'normal' things! Like thanking friends, having 'normal' conversations etc ..... What's good now is that at least I can see what I should do .... and I'm in touch with my 'normal' feelings. Good for you, JM. I feel the same way. People actually look like human beings to me these days, instead of losers because they missed out or passed up on Knowledge. It's nice to be able to look at people as being on your level instead of beneath you because you have Knowledge and they don't. And they say that K is supposed to eliminate the ego. Ha! Big laugh. What's interesting is that at the same time I was thinking I was something special because I had Knowlege, which I attribute to cult brainwashing, inside there was this little voice of rationality telling me what a fool I was for thinking that way, that it was the people who passed up Knowledge who were the smart ones, who saw something I didn't, and that I was the dumb one for getting involved. Weird, huh? It took a long time for me to finally listen to that voice of reason, thanks tremendously to this, and your, websites.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 16:22:44 (GMT) From: Way Email: None To: Remy Subject: Bliss and Godhead, some clarification... Message:

Remy, Thanks for the questions. You probably didn't hear too much about 'bliss' during your recent aspirant days. Premies these days settle for Knowledge being 'pretty effective,' as one premie poster here recently described it. And Maharaji himself describes Knowledge in the blandest, more generic terms possible, apparently in an effort to make it palatable to the public. It wasn't always so. Try to obtain some of the old premie literature from the 70's and you will learn very quickly about bliss, which is brought about by this wonderful Knowledge of all Knowledges. A Knowledge so perfect that whereever just one drop of this Knowledge goes, it becomes absolutely perfect! We premies use to have our very own greeting. Instead of hi and goodby, we always greeted each other with 'Jai Sat Chit Anand.' Sat Chit Anand translates as Truth, Consciousness, and Bliss. The experience of Knowledge bestowed upon the devotee by the living Perfect Master is the ultimate experience any human can aspire to. It is nothing less than Oneness with the universal consciousness, true love, true harmony - the final goal of all life. And don't think we understood this metaphorically. No, we lived it! We chased the living divine body from one end of the globe to the other and we blissed out every single time we caught a glimpse of him. Any personal encounter with him was told in greatest detail by the lucky devotee to all the other jealous devotees. Yes, there was no shortage of bliss in the good old days. Sure we freaked out frequently, but we blissed out just as much. And we didn't water down our experience so the public could relate. Unfortunately, the bliss of the premies was no more real than the bliss of Beatles fans, or crack addicts. It didn't last because it was based on a false foundation. I don't mean to deny Sat Chit Anand. Joy happens. I personally recently felt actual ecstacy flowing in my body, quite unexpectedly. I attended a production of Mozart's 'The Marriage of Figaro.' The point in the opera where all six of the primary characters are on stage and suddenly turn to the audience each singing a different part but harmonizing almost miraculously. Well, I certainly didn't credit Rawat with my experience, or even Mozart. And I don't go off chasing that same bliss by attending the opera every chance I get. It's a part of my own nature. If Rawat were a true teacher he would do everything he could to make sure his students did not depend on him for their own connection to their own nature. The guru/disciple path is a trap every bit as much as drugs. Well, the premies are back to saying hi and goodby to each other just like the public. But some of them haven't yet completely made the transition back to reality. And the living Perfect Master? - well, he's currently disinclined to move forward, until the proper vehicle is made available to him. I think someone here suggested a donkey. Let's have one sent over to the divine Malibu residence, cash on delivery.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 01:56:58 (GMT) From: Jerry Email: None To: Way Subject: Bliss and Godhead, some clarification... Message:

Hi Way, Er, Jai Satchitanand? Seriously, I think there's a difference between experiencing Mozart vs. Maharaji. But before that, I can't relate to your experiences of bliss with Maharaji. I suspect you were one of those zoned out premies, grinning from ear to ear, eyes glazed and wide open, that scared the living bejeezus out of me just to look at you. But, no offense. My experience with M was basically one of high hopes that never came to fruition. But M was good at inspiring (manipulating?) you into giving it just one more try. He has charisma. About Mozart. I'm not a big Mozart fan, but I do attribute what I experience when listening to my favorite artists to their artistry, and their ability to move me with it. It's real. But M was 'perpetrating a fraud', as they say in my neck of the woods. He was pretending to be God. And that's where peoples' bliss was coming from, from believing in the myth he created of himself, not from anything real about him, except for his charisma, perhaps. Unlike a Mozart, who had something very genuine and real to offer, that was his own, M never did.

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:30:15 (GMT) From: Remy Email: None To: DOD, J-M, Way Subject: Many thanks Message:

DOD, J-M and Way, Thank you very much for the clarifications. I appreciate the straight answers...only get those here. DOD - Thanks for describing the 'evolution' of the supposedly already 'perfect' master. That just doesn't come out in the videos. He speaks of it as some mistake in interpreting his words. Okay so its in his past. The question I ask myself, is do I take the new improved M? I'd have to say no. Given all the information I've seen here, I just can't see sincerity as one of his attributes...well, unless its sincere love of material possessions...but nonetheless pretty nauseating. J-M - I'd like to thank for all the great stuff you've posted here and on your site. The Aspirant Contact guidelines were particularly enlightening. Big M watching me? That's pretty creepy. Thank you for sharing your personal experience with M worship. I've always thought that the premies I know were pretty selfish and self-centered...at least I have a glimmer of understanding as to why now. It's really saddening to see the love among premies manipulated. Love instead to a 'cold and distant' figure....that's a truly disturbing thought. Way - Thanks for the history lesson about bliss. I'd thought that word has some significance. One line you wrote touched on a concern I've had for awhile: 'If Rawat were a true teacher he would do everything he could to make sure his students did not depend on him for their own connection to their own nature.' I was thinking the other night that from the posts on this forum, it seems if all these people were in a group, it could be an amazing thing. But it wasn't. Instead I read of getting over it and getting on. So not right. I am really grateful this Forum is around to offer up some straight answers. I've stopped going to Video events. Oddly, Jim's passion was of influence on that. I was trying to maintain a positive and defensive attitude when I posted previously. As I wrote it, I knew my reasoning was pretty thin. The feedback I got, from AJW and J-M especially, was very helpful to separate fact from fiction. These questions I just asked were the most puzzling to me - obviously since they aren't really something I would learn from videos. Bottom line, is I learned a great deal and I'll be slowly severing ties. J-M - I will check out that book you mentioned. Call it a morbid fascination, but M and his initial appeal, continues to interest me. Thanks again.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 09, 2000 at 08:54:49 (GMT) From: Jean-Michel Email: None To: Remy Subject: Even more disturbing: cosmic teletubbies baby face Message:

Love instead to a 'cold and distant' figure....that's a truly disturbing thought. Do you have any idea of how many thousands of KW of spotlights are aimed at Rawat when he's sitting on his gigantic throne at his 'events'? Tens of thousands! The last time I've been to a 'program' with him, I tried to count the spotlights. I don't remember the figure. Indians even joke about him: he's known in India as the guru who has a fake aura made by the spotlights. They're no idiots. He's usually seated on a regular armchair, and you don't realize this when you watch a 'regular' aspirants' video. But the 'thing' on which his throne is placed usually looks like a huge mega-galactic throne. I'll definitely have to lift up some shots of some 'special' videos to show this. What he really looks like is a brilliant golden figure seated on a huge mega-galactic throne. And premies get fascinated by this. All this love, coming from the cosmic inter-galactic god figure ..... No one can imagine this. This is where the premies get their food! Still fascinated by the golden baby-face!!! I've had 'that experience' premie ji ..... I know!

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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 19:42:44 (GMT) From: DOD Email: None To: Remy Subject: Many thanks Message:

You're lucky to be getting out. True, it is facinating that we could be hoodwinked. Nevertheless, the divine Guru Maharaj Ji sure has changed his tune. The doctrine has gone from reincarnation, vegetarian diet, bliss, self-realization, liberation, Guru greater than God, Lord of the Universe, Krishna incarnate, Jesus incarnate to ... experience, life is finite, there is nothing more, meditation teacher, vague, vague, vague.... Hopefully, it will finally be nothing, nada ...

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