Forum V: Archive
Compiled: Wed, Mar 15, 2000 at 10:57:15 (GMT)
From: Mar 01, 2000 To: Mar 13, 2000 Page: 4 Of: 5


Angry -:- If you have a cult(premie) victim in your family -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 17:55:01 (GMT)
__ cq -:- If you have a cult(premie) victim in your family -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:18:04 (GMT)

JB -:- Where am I ? -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 17:22:14 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- you have got me wondering -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 22:01:50 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Where indeed??? -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 20:37:21 (GMT)
__ __ JB -:- Where indeed??? -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 00:06:50 (GMT)
__ __ __ Ali McGraw -:- Where indeed??? -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 00:34:18 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Selene -:- just for the record -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 03:08:07 (GMT)

Hal -:- focussing on M -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 11:46:06 (GMT)
__ Hal -:- some misunderstanding? -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 07:24:06 (GMT)
__ __ Jackie -:- Sense-Sealer -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 04:28:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- Sense-Sealer -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 07:26:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cqg -:- Sense-Stealer -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 20:14:32 (GMT)
__ __ cqg -:- some misunderstanding? -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 18:55:37 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- focussing on M -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 03:20:19 (GMT)
__ Premies are forever -:- nobody gets to leave Hal -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 01:57:05 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- I hope you're joking? (nt) -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 07:37:50 (GMT)
__ SB -:- focussing on M? What happened to you? -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 01:42:41 (GMT)
__ cqg -:- focussing on M? ... close pod-bay door, Hal (nt) -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:35:24 (GMT)
__ JB -:- Bye Hal -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 17:48:59 (GMT)
__ __ Dr. Marcus Welby MD -:- My dear, dear JB -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 18:18:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ JB -:- To Marcus -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 20:48:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ JB -:- Medications? -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 23:37:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ cqg -:- Medication for JB? -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:31:55 (GMT)
__ Susan -:- Big hazard of this forum! -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 17:27:40 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- That's Ironic -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 16:44:14 (GMT)
__ McJoey -:- focussing on pal Hal -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 15:13:50 (GMT)
__ __ Jackie -:- I hope we keep in touch -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:07:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- I hope we keep in touch -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 12:59:03 (GMT)

Brian -:- New Journey -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 10:59:45 (GMT)
__ Way -:- New Journey -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 15:14:39 (GMT)
__ __ ET -:- New Journey -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 16:52:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ Way -:- New Journey -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 18:19:35 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ bb -:- Michael from Oregon -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 02:35:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ michael from Oregon -:- bb and all of us who write posts late into the -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 03:16:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- bb and all of us who write posts late into the -:- Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 04:33:53 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- bb and all of us who write posts late into the -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 04:00:10 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- bb and all of us who write posts late into the -:- Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 04:39:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- thanks bb -:- Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 07:57:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- stepford -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 03:19:20 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- stepford -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 07:26:57 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- no god -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 06:01:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Stepford Wives... -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 19:33:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Stepford Wives...diazepam etc -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 20:47:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Love/Altered States -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 19:54:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Love/Altered States -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 21:19:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- Stepford Wives...diazepam etc -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 01:35:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- wouldn't know -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 02:26:41 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- 2 movies--too funny -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 17:06:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- 2 movies--too funny -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 18:42:47 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- points of view -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 18:09:40 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- points of view -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 20:22:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- points of view -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 21:16:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- points of view -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 20:11:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- 2 Stepford Films -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 12:52:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- robot wives! -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 04:26:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Tattoos/Peircings etc -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 20:03:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Tattoos/Peircings etc -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 22:51:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Tattoos/Peircings etc -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 23:14:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Helen -:- girl power -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 16:59:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- girl power -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 22:55:36 (GMT)

hamzen -:- Annie/ Other Premies/ a Question -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 10:08:49 (GMT)
__ Selene -:- Annie/ Other Premies/ a Question -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 02:49:58 (GMT)
__ ham -:- Why is it that whenever you need -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 19:26:13 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- I think that's it, you were too reasonable -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 20:57:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ ham -:- Proof that Maharaggi's a useless wanker -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 23:45:31 (GMT)

Mu -:- Reaching the end -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 02:51:13 (GMT)
__ just one devotee -:- Reaching the end -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 03:02:43 (GMT)

Mu -:- You are stupid, but that's ok! You're only human! -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 02:20:23 (GMT)
__ Deputy Dog -:- You are stupid, but that's ok! You're only human! -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 13:50:52 (GMT)
__ __ Mu -:- You are stupid, but that's ok! You're only human! -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:46:47 (GMT)
__ Hal -:- hanging around exes -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 08:23:57 (GMT)
__ __ Selene -:- hanging around exes -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 03:49:24 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- Only if they're stupid, Hal -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 16:52:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ Hal -:- Just kidding Jim! I owed you one (nt) -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 23:32:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Jim, are you dissing me? -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 18:12:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- 'Worshipping' the rational mind? -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:46:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- 'Worshipping' the rational mind? -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 02:01:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Thanks for the power Powerman (NT) -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 04:38:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- Whoah! Hold on a second, Dog! -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 05:03:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Ha ha! Thank YOU for the power, Pman! -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 05:09:04 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ M's Manicurist -:- Terrific and Fabulous Bliss -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 02:38:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- 'Worshipping' the rational mind? -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 02:14:42 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- 'Worshipping' the rational mind? -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 02:37:33 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yeah, I'm saying it's not possible -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 04:23:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cqg -:- 'choice of being in my rational mind or ...' -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 20:34:23 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- 'choice of being in my rational mind or ...' -:- Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 02:46:02 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ cq -:- Wild?Free? So how come you're stuck in a cult?(nt) -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 19:11:17 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ G -:- 'choice of being in my rational mind or ...' -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 04:26:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jackie -:- 'choice of being in my rational mind or ...' -:- Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 21:20:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- nope wrong -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 23:45:45 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Scientology ??? -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 05:01:30 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- YOU'RE A NUMBSKULL, JACKIE!! -:- Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 21:44:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- I'm innocent I tell ya -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 15:53:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- I'm afraid it's too late, G -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 16:42:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Golem -:- I am Golem I am Scientologist -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 21:41:58 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- I'd go a step further, G -- it's a false dichotomy -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 04:50:49 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Powerman -:- I'd go a step further, G -- it's a false dichotomy -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 05:40:55 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- I'd go a step further, G -- it's a false dichotomy -:- Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 02:49:09 (GMT)
__ Harry -:- Mooooo jokes -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 04:10:43 (GMT)
__ __ Mu -:- Mooooo jokes - LOL -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 04:35:44 (GMT)
__ __ __ Harry -:- Speaking of crazy -:- Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 08:50:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Mu -:- Bark, quack, oink, meow! ;-) (nt) -:- Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 16:09:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- Mooooo jokes - LOL -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 22:11:26 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jack -:- Scientology definitions of mind -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 04:59:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ cqg -:- Scientology definitions of mind -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:09:18 (GMT)

cq(g) -:- PALINDROMES ... and why not ... ? -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 21:27:07 (GMT)
__ cq(yus it's me)g -:- PALINDROMES check THIS one ... -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 21:33:52 (GMT)

Susan -:- 'He's all muscle, not fat' -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 17:39:16 (GMT)
__ Joan Apter -:- His Body Is Golden and He's The Source of Creation -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 19:14:46 (GMT)
__ Sandy -:- 'He's Not Fat, Just Pleasingly Obese' (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 19:12:45 (GMT)
__ __ Hal -:- Yeah! just short for his width skinny buggers! nt -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 19:39:08 (GMT)

Jackie -:- Try 'recentexes@yahoo.com' (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 17:37:35 (GMT)

Jean-Michel -:- Aspirants lurkers: Please READ THIS! -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 11:12:19 (GMT)
__ AJW -:- Data Protection Act -:- Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 01:02:01 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Aspirants lurkers: even MORE documents today -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 11:30:39 (GMT)
__ __ Remy -:- Aspirants lurkers: even MORE documents today -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 14:13:56 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- This is not the most recent one.. -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 14:43:12 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Remy -:- This is not the most recent one.. -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 22:28:01 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Way -:- This is not the most recent one.. -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 22:46:03 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Remy -:- This is not the most recent one.. -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 03:19:21 (GMT)
__ JW -:- This is SO ANAL...... -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 18:40:00 (GMT)
__ __ Peter Howie -:- This is SO ANAL...... -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 02:23:54 (GMT)
__ __ __ JW -:- Good Point, Peter -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 17:40:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jackie -:- How True, J.W. -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:18:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ JW -:- The Synchronized Ushers -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 06:16:15 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Unknowing -:- How much PASSION does an usher really need? -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 21:04:22 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Joey -:- How much PASSION does an usher really need? -:- Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 00:14:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Mj :) -:- Yes, by all means ...synchronicity! -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 16:36:21 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- The Synchronized Ushers excellent subject line -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 07:29:34 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ G -:- Synchronized = compliant, but never enough (nt) -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 23:55:21 (GMT)
__ __ Jim -:- You miss the point, Joe (again??) -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 18:54:10 (GMT)
__ Gregg -:- Aspirants lurkers: Please READ THIS! -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 16:43:47 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Aspirants? The whole stuff now online -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 16:41:35 (GMT)
__ SB -:- Aspirants lurkers: Please READ THIS! -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 15:34:34 (GMT)
__ __ Jerry -:- Don't trust the aspirants! -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 17:18:51 (GMT)
__ __ __ Well I'm an aspirant and -:- I don't mind the supervision -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 17:36:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Hal -:- Aspirant? -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 19:23:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Got me going then Jim .You trickster! (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 19:34:14 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Just kidding, Hal (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 19:27:52 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Pauline Premie -:- Thank you for having understanding -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 18:51:05 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jackie -:- Lovely to see you -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 05:09:37 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Pauline Premie -:- You Are Confused -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 17:31:59 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Hal -:- Your humour is way better than fatguru's (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 19:27:19 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Right, the whole stuff speaks by himself! -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 17:24:11 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Same thing reading Scientology's documents! -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 17:27:55 (GMT)
__ Jean-Michel -:- Don't miss! Confession of an ex-aspirant contact -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 11:33:00 (GMT)
__ __ Peter Howie -:- Thanks for this one JM - I appreciate your efforts -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 02:32:16 (GMT)
__ __ Susan -:- Another chilling post JM keep up the good work! -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 15:25:16 (GMT)
__ __ Marianne -:- EV housecleaning, gratitude, and service -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 14:12:25 (GMT)
__ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- Yes and No Marianne -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 16:58:48 (GMT)
__ __ __ Susan -:- well said Marianne (nt) -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 15:15:07 (GMT)
__ __ SB -:- :( nt -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 13:08:21 (GMT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Aspirants lurkers: Please READ THIS! -:- Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 11:24:00 (GMT)
__ __ Helen -:- Stepford Wives -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 05:45:32 (GMT)
__ __ __ beeb -:- 'Oh shut up grandpa' -:- Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 05:12:00 (GMT)
__ __ __ Selene -:- Stepford Wives vs. psycho guilt binge -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 07:43:39 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Helen -:- yes you are right -:- Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 05:38:13 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ Susan -:- Stepford Wives vs. psycho guilt binge -:- Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 16:50:38 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Stepford Wives vs. psycho guilt binge -:- Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 02:15:08 (GMT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Stepford Wives vs. psycho guilt binge -:- Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 04:35:42 (GMT)
__ __ cqg -:- 'Avoid personal relationships...' Jagdeo? (nt) -:- Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 20:29:48 (GMT)


Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 17:55:01 (GMT)
From: Angry
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: If you have a cult(premie) victim in your family
Message:
Ten Things To Do If You Have A Cult Victim In Your Family
This is NOT a family disgrace. It can happen to anybody and is really a back-handed compliment to parents who did the right thing and raised their child to be independent of them and an idealist who wants a better world.

Don't nag, preach or lecture to the cult victim. Chances are the cult has already told him that you will do this and that this is a sign that they are in the one true channel or on the true road to freedom or in gods true church. He will take just so much and reject the rest as persecution.

Guard against the holier-than-thou or martyr-like attitude. It is possible to create this impression without saying a word. An cult victims sensitivity is such that he judges other peoples attitudes toward him more by small things than by outspoken words.

Don't use the if-you-love-me appeal. Since the cult victim doesn't believe that you love him as much as the group does or God does anyway this won't work!!

Avoid any threats. There may be times when a specific action is necessary to protect under-age children but idle threats only make the cult victim believe you don't mean what you say.

Don't destroy their books or tapes. Usually this only pushes the cult victim further into the group and shows a disrespect for their personal belongings.

Don't let the cult victim persuade you to join with him on the grounds that it will help you understand him better. It rarely does more than either make you angrier or gets you converted too. Wait until you are educated enough to take this step. When you are fully prepared you can then attend their meetings etc and discuss this with him rationally.

Don't be jealous of the cult. The tendency is to think that love of home and family is enough incentive for them to leave. It isn't. Mind control is stronger than family ties.

Do offer love, support and understanding to the cult victim during the time in the cult, coming out of the cult and during recovery.

Don't expect an immediate 100% recovery when they leave. In any illness there is a period of convalescence. There may be relapses & times of tension and resentment during their grief.
Cult Awareness & Information Centre
PO Box 2444
Mansfield Q 4122
Australia

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:18:04 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Angry
Subject: If you have a cult(premie) victim in your family
Message:
good work, Angry (not that you need anyone's encouragement other than your own, though what extra encouragement you do get hopefully won't hurt).

More support from this site.

(http://rickross.com/reference/cults_in_our_midst6.html)


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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 17:22:14 (GMT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: Everyone / Webmaster
Subject: Where am I ?
Message:
May I be the first to congratulate the Webmaster for the excellent changes. Wow - music is fantastic.
Thank you, thank you.

JB

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 22:01:50 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: you have got me wondering
Message:
JB where are you?
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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 20:37:21 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: JB
Subject: Where indeed???
Message:
My dear chap, where's this music? Do you mean on Not Maharaji's mixed bag which is my little creation in cyberland.

Or is it somewhere else you're refering to? I know Roger Drek has some music on his site. Now where is dear old Roger? Please send us a message Roger.

By the way, I have already put a local search engine on Not Maharaji's mixed bag but I am at this moment in the process of creating a better search engine which will search all of the ex-premie sites together.

That is: ex-premie.org, Jean-Michel's site, House of Drek and The Truth About Maharaji and all my other bits and pieces. At the moment I'm waiting for the spider to crawl the sites and am just hoping that I've not added too many URLs for it to index.

I should know by tomorrow if this is going to work. It will be a great facility to be able to search all of the ex-premie sites from one search engine.

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 00:06:50 (GMT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Where indeed???
Message:
Sir Dave,

Yes,I guess everyone gets here in diff ways - I learned by going thru Not M's Mixed Bag. Forgot people get here diff ways and haven't seen your changes they are very nice.
JB

Sorry Selene

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 00:34:18 (GMT)
From: Ali McGraw
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: Where indeed???
Message:
JB,

Being in love, means never having to say you're sorry.

Your loving sister,

Ali McGraw

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 03:08:07 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Ali McGraw
Subject: just for the record
Message:
I always use my real name on forum
Except once. A month or so ago.
I ain't Ali.
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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 11:46:06 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: focussing on M
Message:
Since participating on this forum I've become more focussed on M than I was as a premie.So I think I'll take a break and do something else.

Thanks everyone for your input from all sides of the spectrum. I've found it all very enlightening.

All the best to everyone Hal.

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 07:24:06 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: some misunderstanding?
Message:
Having reread this post I think I may have created some misunderstanding. I have no intention of ever going back to M or any other pathway that takes away sovereignty of the individual or discourages thought.

I am anti all affiliations with any exclusive spiritual pathways.

What I meant by my being focussed on M was that it isn't that positive for me at present to be constantly thinking about something I want to break my attachment to.

If I feel like it I may enjoy an occasional guru free meditation without eyeball pressing or ear stopping.

I do have an innermost self which is very enjoyable to feel. The closest word to describe it is compassion.

I ALSO PUBLICALLY APOLOGISE FOR LOSING IT WITH JOEY: JUST SOMETHING HE SAID GOT ME REACTING TOO STRONGLY. Sorry man I don't even know you to have got so judgemental towards you.

I've been going through a much more intense range of emotions than I expected since realising that I've been pinning my hopes on someone false.I'll keep in touch .

Hal.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 04:28:03 (GMT)
From: Jackie
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Sense-Sealer
Message:
Dear Hal,

Nice to know you are still around. I look forward to hearing from you.

I thought you might like something I found in an old (1978) yoga book I have had for many years. I hadn't noticed the Sense Sealer before though.

The Sense sealer Calms the mind, teaches concentration, offsets depression, tension and anxiety. (also cures insomnia)

Tecnique:
1. Sit in comfortable position.
2. Raise your arms so that your elbows are shoulder high and place you hands on either side of the nose.
3. Now close the eyes, look upwards and place the index and middle fingers on the eye-lids.
4. The ring fingers now gently push against the nostrils. The pinkies rest somewhere below the nostrils.
5. Now place the thumbs against the earholes and apply GENTLE PRESSURE on ears and eyes.
6.Breathe normally and concentrate on the deep ebb and flow of your breath.

(I always though it wasn't necessary to do the techniques separately when you can do them all at the same time without any problem!) Takes 15 minutes instead of an hour! Hope you like it and it helps.

Bye for now,

Jackie

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 07:26:03 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Jackie
Subject: Sense-Sealer
Message:
This is a joke right? I'd rather pick my nose and eat it Jack.
That stuff is way too complex and unnecessary.Try sitting, relaxing and observing whatever happens.Hal
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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 20:14:32 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Sense-Stealer
Message:
Might not be a joke Hal,

Sounds to me like this is doing all four techniques at once - i.e. the mysterious 'Fifth Technique' that guaranteed a good bowel movement (if not enlightenment) to the practitioner.

And in the meantime, who pays the rent?

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 18:55:37 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: some misunderstanding?
Message:
A man walks into a bar carrying jumper cables.
The bartender says, 'Hey! Don't you try to start anything in
here.'
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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 03:20:19 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: focussing on M
Message:
You made a fast recovery that's for sure.
Well this place will be here whenever you feel like posting. I know how you feel.

I understand how it can get. This forum stirs up a
lot of emotions. Some of it is painful and the confrontation can be hard to take. but there is a lot of good too.
Take a break and see how you feel after a while.
One of the things that happens with being in a cult, at least it happened to me, is I came to see things so much in
terms of black and white with little room for abstracts
or shades of grey. This can be very dangerous.
I'm not saying you are doing this but be careful and
be gentle to yourself.

I've tried the formal 'goodbye' at least oh, I don't even think I can count them anymore!
As recent as a couple months ago!
My reasoning being, if I posted a formal goodbye
I would feel really stupid if I came back and posted.
So I thought it would keep me off here.
But it didn't work!

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 01:57:05 (GMT)
From: Premies are forever
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: nobody gets to leave Hal
Message:
youll be back
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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 07:37:50 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Premies are forever
Subject: I hope you're joking? (nt)
Message:
r
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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 01:42:41 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: focussing on M? What happened to you?
Message:
What have you been listening to?

I hope to see you again. Read your old posts: Maybe you remember again... I wish you the best and that is not near mahaha.

SB

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:35:24 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: focussing on M? ... close pod-bay door, Hal (nt)
Message:
focussing on M? ... close pod-bay door, Hal (nt)
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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 17:48:59 (GMT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Bye Hal
Message:
Good luck,
I thought for myself I just became more aware of myself and thought processes. And I actually meditated more.I do my own variation on the techniques just anything to go inside cause that's where I find some peace and quiet. And because of you all
I do that more thank you.
Will miss ya, but understand. ( I give you 2 weeks) ;)

JB

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 18:18:03 (GMT)
From: Dr. Marcus Welby MD
Email: None
To: JB
Subject: My dear, dear JB
Message:
JB,

Have you ever heard of the medication 'Haldol'?

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 20:48:49 (GMT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: Dr. Marcus Welby MD
Subject: To Marcus
Message:
Hey I just had lunch with my psychiatrist friend - not only did we have a laugh that Haldol was an anti-psychotic - still laughing thank you - but he said in Alabama in the hospitals they call it 'Hound dog'. Then I said how cute that someone would tell me to use an anti-psychotic - whereupon, my lawyer friend said -- only you would say that was 'cute'.

My girlfriend understood however - how quaint I thought it was that some people are just so intellectual that when someone may have a wonderful abstract understanding/vision they might suggest you take an anti psychotic. We whispered to ourselves
how these men just don't understand...

Thanks for the laugh Marcus,
JB

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 23:37:55 (GMT)
From: JB
Email: None
To: Dr. Marcus Welby MD
Subject: Medications?
Message:
It probably wouldn't mix with everything else I'm taking.
JB
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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:31:55 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Dr. Marcus Welby MD
Subject: Medication for JB?
Message:


This quote 'Doctor' Marcus Welby apparently wants you medicated, J B.

Be aware of these types (next dose: Haloperidol - serious liquid-cosh territory).



..................

Or perhaps Welby's just another tongue-in-cheek ex-premie fooling us again ...


P.S.
On the internet - how can you tell if it's sarcasm or not?

;) & other emoticons DO help.

Here's to clarity.

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 17:27:40 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Big hazard of this forum!
Message:
I agree. I take long breaks myself for the same reason. Someone recently described it as throwing good time after bad. Part of it for me is just simply enjoying the exchange and the characters here. But there is a point in which you lose the present exploring the past.

I support you in taking a break. It is very emotionally healthy thing to do.

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 16:44:14 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: That's Ironic
Message:
Unlike most of the things listed in Alanis Morrisette's song, that truly IS ironic, that you're focusing more on Goom Rodgee now than you were then.

Good luck; check back in someday and let us know how you're doing!

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 15:13:50 (GMT)
From: McJoey
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: focussing on pal Hal
Message:
No extra charge for that 'enlightening input' Hal, and whenever you want more of it, you know where you can find us!
In the meantime, I'll wish you God's speed on your journey, and since we're approaching one of my all-time favorite holidays, St. Patrick's Day, I'll leave you with this.

*************************************

May the road rise to meet you.
May the wind be always at your back.
May the sun shine warm upon your face.
And rains fall soft upon your fields.
And until we meet again,
May God hold you in the hollow of His hand.

May there always be work for your hands to do,
May your purse always hold a coin or two.
May the sun always shine warm on your windowpane,
May a rainbow be certain to follow each rain.
May the hand of a friend always be near you,
And may God fill your heart with gladness to cheer you.

Always remember to forget
The things that made you sad.
But never forget to remember
The things that made you glad.

Always remember to forget
The friends that proved untrue.
But never forget to remember
Those that have stuck by you.

May your troubles be less
And your blessings be more.
And nothing but happiness
Come through your door.

Always remember to forget
The troubles that passed away.
But never forget to remember
The blessings that come each day.

Count your blessings instead of your crosses;
Count your gains instead of your losses.

Count your joys instead of your woes;
Count your friends instead of your foes.

Count your smiles instead of your tears;
Count your courage instead of your fears.

Count your full years instead of your lean;
Count your kind deeds instead of your mean.

Count your health instead of your wealth;
Love your neighbor as much as yourself.

Bless you and yours
As well as the cottage you live in.
May the roof overhead be well thatched
And those inside be well matched.

May you live as long as you want,
And never want as long as you live.

May your neighbour respect you,
Trouble neglect you,
The angels protect you,
And Heaven accept you.

- Author Unknown -

____________________________________________________________

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:07:48 (GMT)
From: Jackie
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: I hope we keep in touch
Message:
Dear Hal,

I can't blame you for leaving and absolutely agree with you I have been more focused on the outward appearance of m way way too much over the last year. It almost makes you believe in that terrible old mind doesn't it? I still would really like to contact you so please don't leave without keeping in touch with me somehow.

Thanks,

Jackie

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 12:59:03 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Jackie
Subject: I hope we keep in touch
Message:
Hi Jackie,

I've sent Anth my e-mail address for you to contact me.

Hope to hear from you. Hal

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 10:59:45 (GMT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Everyone
Subject: New Journey
Message:
I put E.T.'s Journey online this morning. Thanks for the submission, E.T.
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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 15:14:39 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: ET
Subject: New Journey
Message:
Hey E.T.,

Were you ever at the Ananda community? Were you actively involved when the lawsuits came out against Swami Kriyananda? What do you think of him now? Did you see the blue star while an Eckist? Have you read the descriptions of the four techniques of Knowledge on this site? What do you do now? In the end, it really is just you and your own connection, n'est-ce pas?

Thanks much for your story.

Best wishes.

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 16:52:15 (GMT)
From: ET
Email: 74452.1254@compuserve.com
To: Way
Subject: New Journey
Message:
In answer to you questions, no, I was never involved with Ananda, although I have read about it on the Net. My kriya yoga was from SRF and Hariharananda.

I seem to recall seeing the blue star once. I am still a card-carrying member of Eckankar, although any belief I had in it is watered down from years of the alt.religion.eckankar newsgroup.

I have read the descriptions of Knowledge on this site. I was quite surprised to see how similar the Word was to my own technique of So Hum breathing that I had been using for years.

I had seen the Music technique being done by a premie at the back of a lecture. I learned kechari mudra from kriya yoga and I had developed my own technique for pressing my eyes over the years.

I use the above techniques, plus a mantra I got from the Bible.
I also still smoke an occasional 'funny cigarette'. I have Bob Marley to thank for making me part Rastafarian.

Nuff said.
-E. T.

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 18:19:35 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: ET
Subject: New Journey
Message:
E.T.,

The links between ECK and Knowledge are extensive, since they both have evolved from the Radhasoami (sp?) tradition. See Jean-Michel's extensive site on that subject.

I've recently seen the currect ECK master speaking on cable TV. I must say he lacks one of the usual requirements - charisma.

Recently a premie woman friend of mine who has been with Maharaji since 1972 met a man on-line from Montana who is into ECK. They met several times in person and decided to live together. She quit her job and had everything packed when he called and cancelled. It never would have worked out, the allegiances would have conflicted. Funny how devisive religion is.

All the best, and thanks again.

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 02:35:58 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Michael from Oregon
Message:
Hi Michael,
I just caught up with your post in the inactive index.
In a perhaps drunken blabber I was just trying to say that
it is good that there are ex premies that are here at the forum
and working on the website.
And that if all ex premies were 'live and let live' or
'I'm fine, things are groovy', then no work or evolved understanding of this still evolving cult would be available.

It did come out accusatory, but I thought I picked up the tone
of 'well, this is behind ME' implying that ....well you know.
Good to hear from you:)

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 03:16:12 (GMT)
From: michael from Oregon
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: bb and all of us who write posts late into the
Message:
night:

You are not the first person to 'alter their conciousness' before offering thier offerings here. But, what the f--k were you talking about? ;-)

I do not do drugs. I used to but I discoverd that I have a major alergic reaction to most drugs. I become extremely stoopid and dummer than dumm. ;-)

Anyway, I'm glad you answered.

Peace - Michael

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Date: Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 04:33:53 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: michael from Oregon
Subject: bb and all of us who write posts late into the
Message:
Sometimes I have a late night drink.
It IS reccomended by doctors and of course, the lord.

I dont drink with others unless we match each other drink for
drink. That way we both still think we are smart and clever
even if we are just stoopid.

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 04:00:10 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: michael from Oregon
Subject: bb and all of us who write posts late into the
Message:
Oh isn't that the truth. But the posts seem so
good at the time don't they? yikes.
Mine are all prescription though. As if
that's an excuse.
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Date: Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 04:39:40 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: bb and all of us who write posts late into the
Message:
I love what the prescriptions do for you!
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Date: Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 07:57:25 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: thanks bb
Message:
We seem to have the same late night thing.
my excuse is, the Arizona sun.

I'm having one hell of a a time writing without
being altered.

M wasn't much good for creativity that is for sure

Helen's analogy of premiedumb = Stepford Wives
was so good (dumbing down).

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 03:19:20 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: stepford
Message:
Ive heard the title, I must guess it means that the wives had to dumb down because of the men. Some religiously based male domination?
Men are such idiots and women are so hopeful.
Men are so cold and young girls are so in love.
The DNA would never arrange it like that. There MUST be a god.
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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 07:26:57 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: stepford
Message:
BB you ought to come to Britain, NOONE under the age of 25 believes in love, seen as a complete & total self delusory state, all the young women I know can drink just as much as any bloke too
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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 06:01:08 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: no god
Message:
It's called diazepam
aka Valium Xanax Librium Clonapin Halcyon
Atavan ---- oh there are probably many
more... those are the ones I have gotten my
hands on over the years. God has nothing to do
with it and believe you me I know many a premie
'sister' who is quite familiar with them. Odd isn't
it? after they receive the K of all K's why would
they need such a thing?
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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 19:33:34 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: Stepford Wives...
Message:
was a cheesy American movie (along the lines of Valley of the Dolls as far as produciton values go, but I heard the book was supposed to be pretty good, very 60's 70's) about wives who were slowly replaced by robots who would always smile and serve cheese dip with a smile at their husband's office functions. Was kind of chilling, in this whole town of Stepford, the wives were slowly replaced by these smiling robots and the men loved it. Is that what men want? Just kidding, I know they don't.
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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 20:47:21 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Helen bb hamzen
Subject: Stepford Wives...diazepam etc
Message:
Oh for some reason I thought the wives were being drugged with some sort of valium type derivitive. I saw the movie but it was a zillion years ago.

hamzen you cracked me up with that post about the young women -
it's a subject I've thought about and dealt with a lot these last few years, what is this stuff about romantic love? We don't need a whole lot more babies that's for sure! I'm thinking the girls have the right idea, not sure about the drinking but they'll learn. 'falling in love' for me anyway, has never been much fun. It's a state of psychosis and obsession - I hate it actually after the initial fun part it is worse or the same as a cult involvement.
It IS nice though, to be in a relationship and have someone care about me, and all. I don't have a clue really.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 19:54:15 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Love/Altered States
Message:
Re love, it ain't just women, I've just spent years trying to deal with this one, think I'm finally through it, talk about slow!

Re young women & drugs/chemicals, everybody is so sussed about drug use here nowadays. Very pulse based, full on, then step back. 1990-95 approx 50% of people under 25 were caning it, then they took the foot off the pedal. When I think back to the 60's/70's & the no of people I knew, & nationwide too, who COMPLETELY lost the plot & were institutionalized or dead, you very rarely see that now.

Another side of this is the COMPLETE lack of naivete re religion/spirituality, personal experiences of what I would have called 'spiritual' back in the day are completelty seen as body experiences thru & thru, ie no more than the effects of magnification, spacial or timewise.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 21:19:37 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Love/Altered States
Message:
I think the whole anti drug thing is way too
uptight too ham, but alcohol is different I think it
is very destructive ... just my experience on that one.

yeah, I am the slowest of the slow about the romantic
love BS. oh well at least we finally got it.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 01:35:23 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Stepford Wives...diazepam etc
Message:
Hi Selene,
Jeez maybe they were being drugged. I can't even remember. I just remember it was cheesy and Richard Benjamin was in it! Or maybe that was 'Rosemary's Baby.' Help, I don't know what I am talking about ! I will consult my 'Leonard matlin's guide to videos.' If they were drugged that was just an exageration of what really was going on the suburbs back then, lots of valium- taking to cope with the 'ennui' of being a housewife.

Being drugged somehow doesn't seem as bad as being snuffed out and replaced by a robot. Can any of us in the modern world cope without taking some kind of medication? All I know is depression sucks in a big way. Whatever gets each of us through the night, ya know?

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 02:26:41 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: wouldn't know
Message:
After paying a thousand bucks or so
I found out I'm not a depressive, I'm a manic.
same body, different head.
I do think I'm remembering, the main houswife had
a doctor husband and he figured out how to medicate
her and told all his neigbors. I guess he was the
cult leader. Or I may have dreamt this up.
hell I don't know. This thread is about as logical
as thinking any one new who posts here ........
hmmmm....... here I go again.
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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 17:06:56 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: 2 movies--too funny
Message:
Okay so we are a little fuzzy headed, but at least we are civilized.

Isn't it funny that there are 2 movies. Wouldn't it have been funny if we had gotten into an argument about it and had told each other to 'fuck off'? 'You don't know what the fuck you're talking about! It was robots!' 'Any idiot would know it was drugs!' Must be a girl thing that we actually take the other person's viewpoint into account.
Just an editorial statement about women and men's conversational styles on the forum. Or maybe it's a statement about being on meds, I have found that my problems haven't gone away, I just have forgotten what they are.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 18:42:47 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: 2 movies--too funny
Message:
Or maybe it's a statement about being on meds, I have found that my problems haven't gone away, I just have forgotten what they are.

I drink to drown my sorrows, but they've learnt how to swim........

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 18:09:40 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: points of view
Message:
Well I tend to go crazy and take it all too seriously here on forum. BUT then go the entire other direction and look at some of the fights and wonder what on earth all the fuss is about.
Usually I only get really upset if I feel personally hurt or betrayed, etc, about something. Or if the Seroquel hits before I realize it and I get a little 'creative'. :)

I mean Helen, we'd really have to worry if we got mad at each other over a cheese movie like that!!

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 20:22:42 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: points of view
Message:
Selene,

Forgive me asking, but ... all these drugs - are they your own choice or is some bastard Freudian-psycho-shrink-head dealing to you?

I only ask, 'cos my preference was merely hash, before some NHS shrink applied the 'Serenace'. (longish time ago, mind)

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 21:16:49 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: cq
Subject: points of view
Message:
Seroquel is of the major tranq family as in
Thorazine but new none of the zombie shuffle etc.
The shrink gave it to me as a result of me not sleeping more than 3 hours a night for over a year or so, I was getting
way strange and not able to function.
It's quite nice really. I sleep, dream all the normal
things normal people do. Wake up with no hangover.
I like it. Being manic, pot/hash etc made me very
very hyper and paranoid. I can't handle it at all.
I am very envious of those who can. so... I'll take
what I can. what can I say?
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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 20:11:12 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: points of view
Message:
Can relate to the hash-hyper-high, Selene (or at least used to) and sorry to hear about your insomnia.

Whenever I found myself having trouble getting to sleep (fortunately rarely) - I practised the simple technique of relaxing - but whilst keeping my eyes open!

Worked every time.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 12:52:26 (GMT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: 2 Stepford Films
Message:
In the first film, The Stepford Wives, the wives were being killed and replaced by robots who would pamper to their husbands every whim. In the sequel, The Return of the Stepford Wives, all the wives were still alive and were simply controlled by a combination of drugs and conditioning. Consequently it had a happy ending as all the wives became free. Totally absurd really.

John.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 04:26:54 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: robot wives!
Message:
WOW Hamz, the british males must be smokin lots of pot and screwing each other and wearing lots of earrings everywhere.
I know that even English girls at age 12 are already in love with the local boys and if allowed, will still be in love at age 25. The girls cant help themselves from being incredible hopeful that the boys will turn out to be the kind of lovers that a girl naturally wants. Someone to care and treat them special and to hold them up and be happy with them and be interested in thier interests. Girls get crushed everywhere around the planet, and in some countries sooner than others. No need to mention the hideous practices in moslem africa, or the sorry lot of the buddhist women who must have done something wrong in thier last lives to warrent thier unfortunate karma in that they were born women. If they survive into thier forties without being driven nuts by the men, MENopause comes and carries them off thier rocker for a good chunk of time.
Any way youlook at it.........It's the mens fault!
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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 20:03:21 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: Tattoos/Peircings etc
Message:
'WOW Hamz, the british males must be smokin lots of pot and screwing each other and wearing lots of earrings everywhere.'

Yeah, plenty of that, but the girls really have moved on miles, doesn't mean the girls aren't more sensitive, but everything is so out front here now it hardly seems like England at all. The cultural change has been phenomenal.

Bill where are you now? When were you last here?

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 22:51:32 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Tattoos/Peircings etc
Message:
I loved england I will tell you about it in the
****************Enlightenment Cafe'*****************************
opening soon in a thread near you.
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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 23:14:05 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: Tattoos/Peircings etc
Message:
BB I luv ya, if you're ever over I'd love to go for a bevvy and a chat with ya, you crack me up!
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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 16:59:05 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: bb
Subject: girl power
Message:
Whoa there big guy! Some girls are into butt-kicking soccer, baseball, swimming, studying, pursuing their own dreams. I think most people are in search of love, but it's not as bad a picture as you paint it!

Ecomonics and culture do determine to a large degree what choices a woman will have. The abuses against women around the world are horrendous

Of course it's more complicated than this in the U.S. too, some American girls do start to lose their belief in themselves around age 12 and go through a period of tortuous longing for boys' approval. I am hoping that lots of encouragement and engagement in sports will innoculate my high spirited strong willed girl from such a torture, but maybe I am dreaming. As a dad what do you think? Do you think it is part of girl's nature to be pure and innocent and boys nature to be dogs? I think it has to do with life experience and education. A girl who has more of both is not going to be so innocent about the world and about men.

JHB thanks for the elucidation regarding the Stepford WIves--hilarious that there were 2 movies. OY CARAMBA! I still think they are wonderful, in a cheesey sort of way. bb, now there's a horror tale--The Age of Innocence, by Edith Wharton. New York at the 1870's , a woman had no freedom whatsover. We've come a long way since then.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 22:55:36 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: girl power
Message:
Well of course you are right!
I will respond to your comments at the
******************Enlightenment Cafe'***************************
Come on in! Just stroll past a few threads.
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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 10:08:49 (GMT)
From: hamzen
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Annie/ Other Premies/ a Question
Message:
If as you say he has a really special knowledge, some people think the knowledge of all knowledges, and he's say not greater than god, but something special, unique, noone else quite like him then you're talking something ultra-attractive. He has had supreme control of his organization for thirty years, why has he been so unable to get his message across? In the whole of east london you'd be lucky to fill a very small room in my local pub with his followers.

We're talking the package of all packages here, a salepersons dreams, backed up by humungous amounts of cash, why has he been such a dismal failure?

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 02:49:58 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Annie/ Other Premies/ a Question
Message:
Ever listen to that cut from Toad the Wet
Sprocket 'Fall from Heaven'

If he's all you say would he fall from heaven
to this world again?

The lyrics pose the exact question you are asking. Theya re addressed to a Christian cult from someone who's brother got sucked into one of those extreme Christian cults
but it's the same thing.

No there is no answer because there is no answer.

How's things? I think my answer in the Stepford Wivers altered
late night thread says it all ham.

same as ever! I feel really good really. Trying to
stay out of trouble. Doing better.

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 19:26:13 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: hamzen
Subject: Why is it that whenever you need
Message:
a premie you can't find one.

Ah well, a reasonable question that none of them obviouslky have an answer to, of course I'm only assuming but......

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 20:57:52 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: I think that's it, you were too reasonable
Message:
Try picking a fight next time. Sad but true.
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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 23:45:31 (GMT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Proof that Maharaggi's a useless wanker
Message:
Hi babes, hows tings?

You're probably right, there's only one direction such a question can lead to it seems to me, but then what do I know!

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 02:51:13 (GMT)
From: Mu
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Reaching the end
Message:
The end of time
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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 03:02:43 (GMT)
From: just one devotee
Email: None
To: Mu
Subject: Reaching the end
Message:
Very good
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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 02:20:23 (GMT)
From: Mu
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: You are stupid, but that's ok! You're only human!
Message:
You posted this way down below:

A Buddhist twist on the mind is a terrible thing to waste, for those into technical Buddhist humour.
-- Dep

You were trying to make a funny about a mind is a terrible thing to watch - weren't you?

Sounds like old premie speak! Oh how we were told that the mind was wrong. YOU ARE IN YOUR MIND! Scary, wasn't it.

Now here comes good ol' Depity DooDah trying to make buddha haha!
Hey Dep, here's a question for you. What do you get when a premie starts hanging around the ex-premie web site too long?

Another ex-premie, that's what. Be careful of the company you keep. ;-)

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 13:50:52 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Mu
Subject: You are stupid, but that's ok! You're only human!
Message:
Mu,

The mind is a terrible thing to watch was a Buddhist joke published in the Buddhist magazine Tricycle. It's a reference to vipassana, a meditation technique, also called insight meditation.

Try it:

- examine the closed and uncomfortable places of the heart.
- observe your mental patterns.
- observe your mind.
- register thoughts and states in the present.
- don't think about your thoughts, merely note them.
- register thoughts and states in the present.
- notice that thinking is happening.
- let your mind wander, and note how it works.
- don't think about your thoughts merely note them.

Clear seeing and acceptance brings relaxation. Try the above for a half an hour. Using the radar of mindfullness, you will wash free with a great sense of relief and spaciousness.

With a monicker like Mu, I thought you'd know this stuff. Just read Jack's post. Scientology is a spin off of Buddhism.

-- Dep

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:46:47 (GMT)
From: Mu
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: You are stupid, but that's ok! You're only human!
Message:
Yes. Mindfulness meditation is beneficial! It is No thing to do! I do not care for Tricycle. It is material spiritualism, or is that spiritual materialism? [-)

HAHAHAHAH and HOHOHOHO!

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 08:23:57 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Mu
Subject: hanging around exes
Message:
Mu you're right about premies hanging around exes too long becoming exes.But exes also could become premies again from hanging around exes.
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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 03:49:24 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: hanging around exes
Message:
Hal I cannot imagine hanging around premies.
I'd have to be in enforced lockup! Really I did my
time. There is nothing that could make me do that.
Why would I? What possible reason?
Come on Mir I'd LOVE to hear this answer.
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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 16:52:02 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Only if they're stupid, Hal
Message:
Hal,

You could becopme a premie again if you pulled a Carol -- completely abandon all sense of rational scrutiny, in fact make a point of reaching 'beyond' rationality. Then no questions, no obstacles, no real world nothing to get in the way. Follow your 'heart'. Sure. Why not?

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 23:32:32 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Just kidding Jim! I owed you one (nt)
Message:
n
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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 18:12:39 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, are you dissing me?
Message:
Jim,

Worshipping the rational mind is stultifying.

At the very least I like to have the choice of being in my rational mind or in my heart.

It's nice to take a vacation now and zen, wipe the slate clean, wash free, turn off the soap opera, transcend the mental conditionning, take a breather, step out. You should try it some time! Medical doctors say it's good for us. Interrupt the pattern, de-stress, and all that.

Your friend and mine,

-- Deputy Dogg

I'm thinking of spelling it with two G's. What do you think? Kinda makes me sound like a rapper doesn't it?

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:46:45 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: 'Worshipping' the rational mind?
Message:
Dogg,

Oxford defines 'worship' as: homage or reverence paid to a deity, especially in a formal service.

Inapplicable here. And please, don't bother trying to stretch the language out of shape on this one. 'Worship' is just the wrong word. Period. Now, if you want to say 'respect' I might agree with you. But 'worship'? 'Fraid not.

Funny how you premies are so stuck in this kind of thinking, though. I'm reminded of all the premies who've come here to ask such dumb questions as 'But if you're not going to follow m, who WILL you follow?' or 'Well, I don't see YOU promising world peace, do I?' These questions show just how frozen premies can get in some hokey spirituality.

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 02:01:22 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: 'Worshipping' the rational mind?
Message:
Jim,
I have to differ with you on this one. The term worship can be applied to things other than deities. You don't need a dictionary to know that.

Perhaps another term would have been better but it's valid to claim that too much emphasis is being put on something. Is that possible to do with rationality?

I think so. It would have been rational for Lauren Bacall to fall for Clark Gable but she didn't. She thought he was good-looking, charming, witty, kind, etc., and so did everyone else. But she felt nothing when she met him. People often battle with themselves between rationality and feelings.

The idea that premies usually have is that despite maharaji's foibles he delivers a fabulous and terrific bliss. If I'm not mistaken, you've argued before that this is a result of their minds playing tricks on them or the result of an experience that's derived from the brain, or a social setting, etc.

Now Deputy Dog, our good and very cool friend, is trying to say... Now I don't want to speak for the dog, but I'm just sure he's saying that you're overriding this teriffic bliss of maharaji's by explaining it away. And that despite whatever explanations you have, it doesn't matter, because it feels so good and you get so much from it.

Well, what I'm trying to say, Jim, is that Dog's argument was structured enough to be answered. I figure you must have lost your patience again.

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 04:38:55 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Thanks for the power Powerman (NT)
Message:
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 05:03:33 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Whoah! Hold on a second, Dog!
Message:
Don't get me wrong, Dog. I wasn't agreeing with you, just trying to give Jim the right tool for the job. I think being 'too rational' has very specific applications and I don't think this is one of them.

It's not only rational but accurate that maharaji doesn't generate the 'experience'.

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 05:09:04 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Ha ha! Thank YOU for the power, Pman!
Message:
I can breathe again!!!

Yipeeeee!

Time to have a drink, play a little music... it's Friday night and my door's a knockin'

Nya nya nya NYA nya ----- Doggie -- nya nya nya NYA nya

'right tool for the job' -- love it

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 02:38:52 (GMT)
From: M's Manicurist
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Terrific and Fabulous Bliss
Message:
It's funny how Jim keeps trying to explain away this by saying it's all in the premies mind. Surely if it was that simple premies would be blissing out all over the place not just when they see m. Liked the analogy re Lauren Bacall. I think Jackie started all this when she talked about Scientology definitions; rational and reactive mind. I think she was just trying to differentiate the two instead of the usual m definition of just mind versus 'spirit'or you. Believe it or not Jim - that's what you are - we all are. I think you are going to have a lot to deal with when you kick the bucket.

M's Manicurist

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 02:14:42 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: 'Worshipping' the rational mind?
Message:
The term worship can be applied to things other than deities.

Sure, but in every case it better be for 'worship' or the word's misapplied. Look, a word like 'worship' is extremely loaded. And it's absolutely misplaced here. 'Worship' connotes all sorts of things that don't apply to trying to be rartional. No, P-man, I think I'm right here.

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 02:37:33 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: 'Worshipping' the rational mind?
Message:
Okay, Jim, I'll work on you a little harder. Is it inappropriate to say 'Mr. Smith worships his girlfriend'? The term 'worship' is used often enough in that sense. How about 'Little Johnny worships his guitar'? or 'Bill worships music'? How about 'Samuel worships his '56 Chevy'? People often use the term to indicate that someone holds something in the highest regard. Sometimes they mean 'in too high a regard'.

The connotation of religiosity refers to the level of passion and frequency of involvement. Because obviously you can't really worship anything other than a deity. That's where the irony is... that you're worshipping something that's earthly. It would be like saying, 'Professor Reilly is having sex with his books again.'

The real question is whether you've put an inordinate amount of focus on rationality or whether that's even possible. Are you saying it isn't possible? Because using the term 'worship' would be consistent with a common usage to describe the meaning.

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 04:23:52 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: Yeah, I'm saying it's not possible
Message:
It's not just that the idea of holding rationality in too high a regard is very questionable to me (i.e. I don't think it's really possible). It's also the fact that worship denotes blind religiosity. It's irrational to think that one could have a blind -- and thus, irrational -- faith in rationality. That's nonsense.

And yes, I'm well aware that it's a favorite nursery tale in new age circles, the old story about the man who worshipped at the Church of Reason .... blah, blah, blah. Sorry, don't buy it, myself.

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 20:34:23 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: 'choice of being in my rational mind or ...'
Message:
Lapp-dogg:

You say you have a 'choice of being in my rational mind or in my heart.'


Ergo, when 'in' your heart, you are irrational?

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Date: Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 02:46:02 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: cqg
Subject: 'choice of being in my rational mind or ...'
Message:
cqg,

The mind can be prograrmed and trained. The heart is always wild and free.

-- Dep

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 19:11:17 (GMT)
From: cq
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Wild?Free? So how come you're stuck in a cult?(nt)
Message:
Wild & free? So how come you're stuck in a cult?nt
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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 04:26:59 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Dogg
Subject: 'choice of being in my rational mind or ...'
Message:
Deputy Dog wrote:

Worshipping the rational mind is stultifying.

At the very least I like to have the choice of being in my rational mind or in my heart.

It's nice to take a vacation now and zen, wipe the slate clean, wash free, turn off the soap opera, transcend the mental conditionning, take a breather, step out. You should try it some time! Medical doctors say it's good for us. Interrupt the pattern, de-stress, and all that.

G responds:

By 'worshipping the rational mind', what do you mean? Do you mean overemphasizing thinking to the exclusion of feeling, not valuing feelings, believing that reason is the sole means towards knowledge?

I don't see an incompatability between the 'rational mind' and 'the heart'. They don't really work against each other, at least not in a healthy mental state (mental used in a broad sense). Also, thoughts and feelings are not as separate as many people think.

The thing to be careful about is the notion that reason doesn't matter, it does. There is no need to throw away the rational mind in order to feel, to love. Nor is it necessary, in general, to throw away feelings in order to think clearly. I think it's important to distinguish between unhealthy thinking and healthy thinking, and ditto for feelings.

I agree that it's nice to take a breather.

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Date: Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 21:20:59 (GMT)
From: Jackie
Email: None
To: G
Subject: 'choice of being in my rational mind or ...'
Message:
Right on G. You agree with Scientology. It really isn't as bad as people make out except for the cost, heirachy, power tripping you know the usual stuff you have to watch out for in cults. Other than that it's a bit like Knowledge - no problem.
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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 23:45:45 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Jackie
Subject: nope wrong
Message:
Where have you been? Read the shit on the net about Scientology.
Talk first hand to people (i have) who have been there and gotten
out.
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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 05:01:30 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jackie
Subject: Scientology ???
Message:
I wouldn't go anywhere near Scientology. I have read too many bad things about it, for example, how they give you a lot of shit if you leave. The cost, heirachy, and power tripping alone are enough to keep me away. And isn't as bad as people make out isn't exactly glowing praise.

I don't know much about Scientology. Maybe I would agree with (on a superficial level) a few statements they make, but not in the context in which they say those statements, and I doubt that I would agree with what they really mean by those statements. I'm referring to the 'loaded language' of cults. Different poeple can say the same words but mean different things.

See my post on thought reform for a link about 'loaded language', it's interesting.

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Date: Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 21:44:44 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jackie
Subject: YOU'RE A NUMBSKULL, JACKIE!!
Message:
I'm sorry but if you actually believe that you're a complete dummy. What do I mean by 'dummy'? It's not really an IQ thing -- not necesarily, anyway -- it's more a matter of how oblivious you are. Scientology is the epitome of a cult. From it's inception, created as a bald-faced money-maker by a very mediocre science fiction writer who went so far as to brag to his family about how easy it was to start a religion, to its absolutely nonsensical 'teachings' to its ugly, ugly history of tyrannizing all critics or defectors.

No, if you really think that in the face of all the info available today about Scientology, you're a fool.

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 15:53:48 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'm innocent I tell ya
Message:
I stand wrongfully accused of agreeing with Scientology. I swear I'm innocent. If this goes to trial, will you represent me in court?
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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 16:42:25 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: G
Subject: I'm afraid it's too late, G
Message:
G,

Once Scientology finds out you're thinking of leaving, nothing will be able to protect you. Sorry, bud. Wish it was different but, well, that's life, isn't it?

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 21:41:58 (GMT)
From: Golem
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I am Golem I am Scientologist
Message:
I am so happy I have joined Scientology. I was so unhappy and lonely as individual. Everyone here at Forum should join Scientology. It is not what you think. It is really good. You should try it! Scientology will take over this world. So join now and get a better position in Scientology. You would not want to be one of the last!

G is dead, long live Golem

Golem the Scientologist formally known as G

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 04:50:49 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: G
Subject: I'd go a step further, G -- it's a false dichotomy
Message:
I try to screen all my beliefs through what I think is my capacity to be rational. But what in the world does that have to do with feelings? Nada. The whole 'mind or heart' idea is nonsense, perpetrated by people with beliefs that really don't hold up well on close examination. Any excuse in the world, eh?
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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 05:40:55 (GMT)
From: Powerman
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I'd go a step further, G -- it's a false dichotomy
Message:
Jim,
That's ridiculous. Your girlfriend tells you she loves you, right? I hope she does, anyway. Okay, so why do you believe her? Because she tells you? Because she buys you things? I mean, in the end, why do you believe her?
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Date: Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 02:49:09 (GMT)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Powerman
Subject: I'd go a step further, G -- it's a false dichotomy
Message:
Thanks for the power Powerman! Love is all you need!!!!
Return to Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 04:10:43 (GMT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: Mu
Subject: Mooooo jokes
Message:
Hey Mu
>>>>>>You were trying to make a funny about a mind is a terrible thing to watch - weren't you?<<<<<<

Have you ever seen someone so stuck in their head, their thoughts, that they just stare into space all day, every day? At the extreme end like this, it's called mental illness. In some people the mind can in fact be a terrible thing, but in others it's a sourse of inspiration, humour and everything, and in others it's terrible one day and great the next. I like mine, but there was a time it was a pain in the arse, and so I can see the humour in that joke.

Two cows are in a paddock eating grass. One turns to the other and says, 'Moooooo!' 'Hey', says the other.... 'I was just about to say the same thing!'

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 04:35:44 (GMT)
From: Mu
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Mooooo jokes - LOL
Message:
Yes I have seen people stuck in the throes of mental illness. I have been stuck a time or two myself. So, I try to be kind. The mind of Mu is no thing!

Dep's post just caused me to remember those bad old days. Anyone remember being told, 'you're in your mind'? For a long time I thought that my thinking processes were my enemy! How silly! I had learned to actually hate part of myself because of that mind washing blather!

------------------------------
But Dep is just too silly!

Here, Dep, come here boy! Time to wake up!
----------------------------------------------
HAHAHAHAH and HOHOHOHO!

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Date: Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 08:50:19 (GMT)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: Mu
Subject: Speaking of crazy
Message:
There were these two cows, chatting over the fence between their fields. The first cow said, 'I tell you, this mad-cow-disease is really pretty scary. They say it is spreading fast; I heard it hit some cows down on the Johnson Farm.' The other cow replies, 'Hell, I ain't worried, it don't affect us ducks.'

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Date: Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 16:09:01 (GMT)
From: Mu
Email: None
To: Harry
Subject: Bark, quack, oink, meow! ;-) (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 22:11:26 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Mu
Subject: Mooooo jokes - LOL
Message:
Anyone remember being told, 'you're in your mind'?

I remember when a friend of mine and me were first being given satsang and this talk of being 'in your mind' was rampant. My friend said, 'I get it. In order to realize Knowledge you have to be out of your mind'. We all laughed pretty hard at that.

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 04:59:21 (GMT)
From: Jack
Email: None
To: Mu and Harry
Subject: Scientology definitions of mind
Message:
Dear Mu & Harry,

In the early days of knowledge (the 70s) when I felt m's definition of mind was too vague I decided to do some Scientolgy.
There the mind was split into at least two parts: the rational & the reactive mind....... a million miles away from m's definition. Then there was a state called Clear which was a mind free from the reactive mind but left the rational mind very much in tact. Then there was Knowingness a state very much like the experience of Knowledge if not identical. Then there was the Thetan - a being himself (not the mind and not the body) but with a mind and with a body. It is much easier to be a Thetan when the reactive mind has been sorted out and folded up neatly if you get my drift! When the reactive mind is handled there's a lot less chance of mental illness. Here endeth my Scientology Lesson. Now I'm waiting for a lot of flack from Jim!!

Regards,

Jack

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:09:18 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: quartus@postmaster.co.uk
To: Jack
Subject: Scientology definitions of mind
Message:


Back in the late 70's when I was a (pre-Oregonian) Rajneeshi 'sannyasin', two important buzz-words were 'reactive' versus 'responsive'. In the jargon of the time there was also a huge difference between 'rebellion' and 'revolution'.

(I won't use this Forum as a platform for the Bhagwan's teachings, so if you want elaboration on this, email me).

Isn't so much of the cultist mind-set (using the term 'mind-set' not just as another buzz-word, I hope !) a matter of merely using selective language (such as the above) to identify oneself TO other members of the cult?

As in:

what WAS called 'devotion' or 'surrender' NOW equals 'gratitude'

Any more examples of Maha-speak/spiel anyone?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 21:27:07 (GMT)
From: cq(g)
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: PALINDROMES ... and why not ... ?
Message:

Sums are not set as a test on Erasmus
Go deliver a dare, vile dog!
Madam, in Eden I'm Adam.
May a moody baby doom a yam?
Do geese see God?
Murder for a jar of red rum.
Never odd or even.
Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas!
Straw? No, too stupid a fad; I put soot on warts.
Dogma: I am God.
A Toyota! Race fast... safe car... a toyota.
Ah, Satan sees Natasha.
Don't nod.
Anne, I vote more cars race Rome to Vienna.
Some men interpret nine memos.
Are we not drawn onward, we few, drawn onward to new era?
Doc Note: I dissent. A fast never prevents a fatness. I diet on cod.
Dennis sinned.
Go hang a salami; I'm a lasagna hog!
No, it never propagates if I set a gap or prevention.
God saw I was a dog.
Too bad - I hid a boot.
Campus Motto: Bottoms up, Mac.
Kay, a red nude, peeped under a yak.
No trace; not one carton.
Oozy rat in a sanitary zoo.
Rats live on no evil star.
Was it Eliot's toilet I saw?
Lisa Bonet ate no basil.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 21:33:52 (GMT)
From: cq(yus it's me)g
Email: None
To: the us in all/all in us
Subject: PALINDROMES check THIS one ...
Message:
Are we not drawn onward, we few, drawn onward to new era?





Are we not drawn onward, we few, drawn onward to new era?

Where's yer Mirror when you don't want one/..//?

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 17:39:16 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: 'He's all muscle, not fat'
Message:
Once an initiator I knew who was very into appearances and looks himself described his Darshan experience with the topless Speaker this way....

'He's all muscle, hard as a rock'

This guy could not deal with the clearly obvious stoutness and as we have all seen jiggliness of the Speaker. This was pre mala when we all saw him half nude.

Funny how the human mind copes with what it doesn't want to see. I always feel bad about the fat Lard jokes anyway. I certainly struggle with this myself. But I am not presenting myself as perfection in human form, and I think it is empowering to poke fun at the Speaker.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 19:14:46 (GMT)
From: Joan Apter
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: His Body Is Golden and He's The Source of Creation
Message:
So, in that case, what's so bad about having some flab?
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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 19:12:45 (GMT)
From: Sandy
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: 'He's Not Fat, Just Pleasingly Obese' (nt)
Message:
(nt)
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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 19:39:08 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Sandy
Subject: Yeah! just short for his width skinny buggers! nt
Message:
h
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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 17:37:35 (GMT)
From: Jackie
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Try 'recentexes@yahoo.com' (nt)
Message:
Ignore my previous post with incorrect email address.

Jackie

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 11:12:19 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Aspirants lurkers: Please READ THIS!
Message:
This is a copy of an EV document to 'city aspirant contacts', explaining how you are monitored :

++++++

(For Aspirant Contacts Only)
Guidelines for filling out the Aspirant Information Forms

1. Include information about aspirants:

a. who have been attending video events for three months or more and at least once per month;
b. who are unable to attend events but borrow videos (or audio tapes) regularly to watch at home (e.g., a new mother, a person who works nights or lives a long distance from events,
someone with a disabling condition,- indicate this information in the comments section);
c. who are planning to attend one of the events, regardless of their attendance at local video events (even if they have been attending less than three months).

2. Please fill out forms based on your own observations or those of other aspirant team members; there is no need to ask the aspirants themselves. Also check with your video library to include information if the aspirant checks out videos. Keep information simple and factual, without interpretation .

3. If you have information on aspirants of Indian origin, please let Rita Bharuchi-Shank know at (510) 236-5232.

4. Return the aspirant information form by June 20th to the regional aspirant communicator for your area who will send them no later than June 23rd to Steve Price via fax (303) 274-9698 or First Class e-mail.

5. Typed information is easier to read than handwritten. Because faxing often causes blurred letters, please use a 12 pt. font or larger. If the information is handwritten, make sure it is clear and legible.

6. Check carefully for spelling and correct telephone numbers (including area codes).

Specific category guidelines:

7. Number of Local Events (per month): Include only the number of events aspirants could attend.

8. Tune Listening: Indicate the number of recent consecutive months the aspirant has been attending. For example, if someone attended 5 months regularly and then you didn't see him for four months and now he has been coming six months, then put 6 months.
1. Regularity: Be sure to specify the number of times per week or per month. Avoid using terms such as regular or sporadic.
1 Translation: If there are aspirants for whom English is not their native language, ask if they will need translation.
Attending this Event: Check if you know this information at this point. If you find out about aspirants planning to attend Miami after June 27th, please send complete information on these people to your regional aspirant communicator.

+++++++

Local Aspirant Contact Role Description
(Draft for use in the U.S.)

Loc.Asp.Contact-Revised 2/7/99

Title: Local Aspirant Contact
Reports to for policy: National Aspirant Contact, National Contact and Instructors
Coordinates with: Local Team and City Contact (team coordinator)
Role: To provide the resources and information needed at the local level to assist a person through the process of listening, preparing for Knowledge, and keeping in touch.

Overall Responsibilities:
1. Receive, understand and implement the guidelines provided by instructors and the national contact through the national aspirant team.
2. Stay synchronized by attending aspirant team meetings and meetings with instructors.
3. Coordinate with the city contact and the local team to provide regularly-scheduled video events for interested people, aspirants, and those who have recently received Knowledge.
4. Develop a local aspirant team as needed.
5. Provide aspirants with accurate, timely, relevant information.
6. Provide instructors, the national contact and the national aspirant team with information when requested.
7. Assist instructors with aspirant meetings and practice sessions.
8. Liaise with local library staff (if any) regarding aspirant video and audio tapes.
9. Conduct oneself in such a way as to maintain the integrity of the aspirant process.
10. If unable to continue in this role:
a) inform the national aspirant contact and the city contact; and
b) coordinate with the national aspirant team and the city contact regarding a replacement.

Specific Duties:
1. Oversee the scheduling and selection of appropriate videos for aspirant events and events for people who have recently received Knowledge.
2. Coordinate with MCs to ensure that a trained MC is available at the above mentioned video events as needed to make basic announcements (see scripts and guidelines).
3. Provide information for monthly reports and visiting instructors regarding:
a. Number of aspirants in area
b. Aspirants attending regularly
c. Aspirants attending regularly for the last 5 months or more (An Aspirant Contact Manual with more details is forthcoming.)
4. Maintain an aspirant card file to notify aspirants of events with instructors and/or to mail information regarding Knowledge sessions.
5. Provide aspirants with the following information:
a. A schedule of all local video events appropriate for aspirants
b. Meetings with instructors
c. Blank card for name, address and phone number so aspirants can be notified of
events, if necessary
d. Events with M and possible Knowledge sessions
6. Participate in the planning process for instructor visits and aspirant meetings.
7. Be available and trained to make phone calls to aspirants (for instructor meetings and events with M as appropriate).
8. Meet with instructors for briefing on arrival and debriefing on departure.
9. Be aware of and use all resources available to you, including:
a. Guidelines
b. Instructors
c. National contact, national aspirant team, and other national staff
d. Aspirant contacts in other communities
e. Local city contact and local staff (ushers, information, AV, and so on)
f. Visions International
g The video and audio library (if available)
h. Printed materials (schedules, information, brochures)
10 Provide the video library staff with an updated list of appropriate video and audio tapes for aspirants and brief the local team on the use of the library for aspirants.
11. When interacting with aspirants:
a. Maintain confidentiality and be discreet
b. Avoid personal relationships
c. Respect the aspirant process and allow aspirants to proceed at their own pace
without judgment or influence
d. Refer aspirants to appropriate videos when asked questions about Knowledge

Functional Reports:
1. Monthly aspirant statistics: total; regular; and regular for at least 5 months
2. General aspirant information for instructor visits
3. Individual aspirant information as needed in preparation for Knowledge sessions

Qualifications
1. Respect for the integrity of the aspirant process
2. Commitment to the role and available time
3. Good communication skills
4. A sense of responsibility for the success of all propagation efforts
5. Ability to work as a member of a team and coordinate team efforts
6. Organizational skills
7. Common sense

Note: This is a working document that will be revised on an ongoing basis. It is intended to be used only as a planning and organizational tool.

Loc.Asp.Contact-Revised 2/7/99

++++++++++

I'm still working on more stuff on this topic, and the whole thing will be available soon on my Elan Vital Today page...

Don't forget to read the The 'aspirants process' pages on Ex-premie.org...


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Date: Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 01:02:01 (GMT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Data Protection Act
Message:
Bonjour Jean Michel,

If this information is stored on a computer, in the UK, the Data Protection Act makes it a legal requirement to inform the aspirants.

I wonder if it's all on paper, or is this another example of illegal activity by the cult?

A bientot.

Anth the Bar room lawyer.

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 11:30:39 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Aspirants lurkers: even MORE documents today
Message:
See how Prem Rawat introduces Himself !

Have a look at the Recommended Aspirant Videos' list, and have an idea of the concepts he's going to feed you with .....

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 14:13:56 (GMT)
From: Remy
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Aspirants lurkers: even MORE documents today
Message:
JM -
The list I got was different. I'll try to get it for you later.
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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 14:43:12 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Remy
Subject: This is not the most recent one..
Message:
and is meant to give an example of all this garbage and cult speaking.
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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 22:28:01 (GMT)
From: Remy
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: This is not the most recent one..
Message:
Oh, okay. I guess garbage is garbage, updated or not.
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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 22:46:03 (GMT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Remy
Subject: This is not the most recent one..
Message:
Remy,

Please do post any current information you have. Your recent experiences are of interest here. For instance, I am wondering if in your case, was the injunction against forming personal relationships between premies and newcomers adhered to? Did you find the premies in your community friendly or standoffish? By the way, how active a community is it and do the premies seem to be pleased and inspired? Did you get any inkling of Maharaji's past before you visited this site? Thanks again for your input.

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 03:19:21 (GMT)
From: Remy
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: This is not the most recent one..
Message:
Premies are plenty friendly and creepy - really wouldn't want a personal relationship with many of them anyway.

'Preparing for Knowledge flyer

This video list is provided to help someone prepare for the gift of Knowledge. By attending the ongoing video events called Preparing for Knowledge, a person will be able to hear many of the current and previous addresses that Maharaji has given specifically for those who are wanting to receive knowledge.

In addition to the videos you may be viewing at the local events, please be sure to watch the videos listed here. They contain many helpful and essential topics which are important to consider before asking for knowledge. These videos are shown periodically at local video events and are also available through the lending library for waching at home.

Learning More Part 1
Courting Clarity
The Triangle
Long Beach - May 30, 1998
Knowledge, Like Nothing Else
The Master Brings Knowledge to Life
Preparing for Knowledge-Questions and Answers
Preparing for Simplicity
Preparing for Knowledge-the Commitment
Beggar
Preparing for Knowledge: Practice
Preparing for Knowledge: Participation
Conscious Effort
Accepting Knowledge'

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 18:40:00 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: This is SO ANAL......
Message:
It is interesting to see how the cult reflects Maharaji's pathological need to control everything. This is what I remember about Maharaji's behavior whenever he had input into anything. He would get really pissed if an event started ONE MINUTE late. I remember in the Poconos he was outraged that it took 45 MINUTES and not the 30 MINUTES he was told to get to the program. It appears now that the ultimate fear of Maharaji is that his premies might actually act human and be something other than robots. No wonder propogation is such a failure.

Premies are to do almost nothing, express no personality whatsoever, use no humor, and AVOID even having a personal relationship with an aspirant is forbidden. It is SO dead. It is SO controlled. Why is this? Is it just the personality disorder of the cult-leader writ large?

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 02:23:54 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: This is SO ANAL......
Message:
Remember the 'Genie' story.

I reckon on one level the premies/whatever are like the genie.

They need something to do or....? There is a 'need' created where they are able to do a 'service'-like action from 'gratitude' etc. So they are essentially counting leaves in a forrest and going up and down a pole until told to stop. But rather than destroy their master when they run out of things to do, as it says in the story, they will simply go away. It mostly fits.

Cheers

Peter Howie

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 17:40:08 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Peter Howie
Subject: Good Point, Peter
Message:
Even in my premie days, one of the things that was most disconcerting was how disorganized, illogical and utterly meaningless and pointless most of the 'service' was. Like Sir Dave's job guarding a slice of cheese, it seems like these premies shuffle papers (now emails and faxes) back and forth which gives some premie honcho something to do. The compilation of meaningless statistics, the review of any sort of expression, the reporting on aspirants and other premies. It's so debilitating. Premies have to keep telling themselves it's important, because it's what Maharaji wants. But then, they NEVER see any results, never see any kind of accomplishment, except the increasing, exponential growth of Maharaji's wealth. How long can somebody keep that up?
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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 21:18:22 (GMT)
From: Jackie
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: How True, J.W.
Message:
Dear J.W.,

Myself & M's Manicurist like your posts a lot. That's exactly how it looks to me. Paper shuffling. How could ushers make any difference in whether m spreads the nolidge or not. Seems to be a feeble excuse for lack of interest.

Jackie

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 06:16:15 (GMT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Jackie
Subject: The Synchronized Ushers
Message:
Have you noticed how often the word 'synchronized' is used in M's world? I think it's a cult code word that provides for the excuse when things screw up or the masses never arrive and want to recieve knowledge. If the ushers had just been appropriately 'synchronized' then it would have all come together. The failure never has anything to do with the failure of Maharaji, the lack of any content in what he says or in the 'gift', but rather because the person reading the canned introduction to the video was out of 'synch.'
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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 21:04:22 (GMT)
From: Unknowing
Email: None
To: JW and all
Subject: How much PASSION does an usher really need?
Message:
This is the premie response to m's yacht speech given to the 'motley crew' (sorry guys)

So that we can respond to Him it is necesary to undertake a SEVERE and SINCERE clean-up. We have been asked to do this with the UTMOST SERIOUSNESS.

I would like you to make a self-assessment regarding your own participation and roll in our team and ask yourself these questions.

1/Do I have the PASSION to continue in this team?

2/ Am I willing to address the AREAS in which I NEDD TO IMPROVE in order to become a more RESPONSIBLE AND EFFECTIVE USHER?

3/ Am I prepared to act within the team guidelines, meeting ITS
STANDARDS and STATED GOALS with a measure of ACCOUNTABILITY to assure that this happens.

Duh! How much passion does it REALLY take to be an usher. (Bongos or what!) Ahh! start swabbing those deck me'hearties!

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Date: Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 00:14:59 (GMT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: Unknowing
Subject: How much PASSION does an usher really need?
Message:
3/ Am I prepared to act within the team guidelines, meeting ITS
STANDARDS and STATED GOALS with a measure of ACCOUNTABILITY to assure that this happens.

Well you know its a cult when little premieji doing the ushering is the one who has to be 'accountable', but hey, don't even mention the word 'accountability' to Maharaji.

It really is a pathetic joke.

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 16:36:21 (GMT)
From: Mj :)
Email: None
To: JW and Selene
Subject: Yes, by all means ...synchronicity!
Message:
JW,

Greetings!

Indeed you are correct in pointing out the use of the word 'synchronicity' as one of my latest buzzwords. I just don't understand why you're even talking about it. What's there to talk about?

That my buzzwords come from my heart and go directly to the hearts of those who are listening, who can listen with a thirsty heart. For these people, the truly thirsty, what you call 'buzzwords,' they call it 'water - that - quenches - thirst.'
Can you not see that?

And so yes, synchronicity is very much a buzzword that I'm using these days to communicate to the premies and aspirants, and all the interested people (Of course as you know, to those who are not interested I have nothing to say. Nothing.)...to communicate to them that what I'm talking about is really about being synchronized. Synchronized to that feeling, that love, that joy....that place within where I tuly want to be, where I can be.

That's the possibility that I want. That's the possibility that I choose. It has been a choice in my life, and I say that it is a choice that human beings in this world can make.

And I'm here to help them make it! To facilitate that process of consciousness, of awakening, of feeling, of knowing. It's all there for those who want it...the thirsty who are ready to quench their thirst by being synchronized to the Gift of Knowledge.

That's what it was all about then. That's what it's all about now. That's what it was meant to be.

For every breath... and beyond.

My best wishes to you, JW, for health, happiness, and prosperity.
And of course, that love.

Mj:)

PS to Selenie:
I really wish you would've hung in there. I'm sure we would've gotten it on sooner or later :)
Oh well, c'est la vie.
I still wish you that feeling, of being synchronized to that feeling of that love that I'm truly thirsty for. This is my true thirst, what I truly need, what I truly want.

And I always want you to be happy.

My best wishes to you and yours,

Mj :)

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 07:29:34 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: The Synchronized Ushers excellent subject line
Message:
That cracked me up JW. Brought back so many memories.
remembering even in the late 90's how UPTIGHT the
ushers were. Like their 100K a year jobs were on
probation and this was their final chance. And M
is always blathering about how this is a 'program
of attraction'. How does someone new miss this type
of thing?
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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 23:55:21 (GMT)
From: G
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Synchronized = compliant, but never enough (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 18:54:10 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: You miss the point, Joe (again??)
Message:
Joe,

Maharaji cares about details because he's indifferent to this illusory world. Sure, you heard about detachment but you never really learned it, did you? So how're you going to understand a REAL master who lives on that precarious razor's edge of spiritual paradox? Not with your mind, I hope!

And regarding the Poconos, look at you: a grown man obsessing about a measly 15 minute interval that took place twenty-four years ago! When are you going to let those fifteen minutes go, Joe? When you're going to give yourself a chance to move on and stuff?

You're also wrong about premies not being allowed to express emotions and personality and stuff. Haven't you read the 'EXPRESSIONS' over on ELK? What do you call those, huh? Stilted, cardboard copies of Kabir? Well, whatever you call them, they're expressions. It says so all over the place, at the top of the page, in the index on the side. EXPRESSIONS, Joe.

As for humour, what IS your problem? Maharaji is full of humour! When was the last time you saw a video, anyway? He sometimes smiles for no reason whatsoever and sometimes makes the premies laugh that way too. No, the Master is full of humour, Joe. You're full of hate? Well he's full of humour. Same thing.

And relationships? Boy, you're sick. This isn't ABOUT relationships, Joe. I'ts about gratitude, something I think you could learn a little more about, if you don't mind my saying.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 16:43:47 (GMT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Aspirants lurkers: Please READ THIS!
Message:
'When asked about Knowledge, refer them to the appropriate video.'

Jesus, that's creepy! PWK's are not allowed to interact as humans with 'aspirants?' Very cultish! It's getting stranger and stranger.

Thanks for posting this, JM. It's fascinating to be able to watch the evolution of a cult in real-time!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 16:41:35 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Aspirants? The whole stuff now online
Message:
See how EV and premies are monitoring you, have a look at the 'aspirants form', the guidelines for your special 'video events' etc

How aspirants are monitored by premies and EV during the 'aspirants process' and 'video events'.

And don't forget, Rawat said the fun has just begun ..... you won't fool the All-Knowing One!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 15:34:34 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Aspirants lurkers: Please READ THIS!
Message:
Hi JM,

from EV papers:

2. Please fill out forms based on your own observations or those of other aspirant team members; there is no need to ask the aspirants themselves. Also check with your video library to include information if the aspirant checks out videos. Keep information simple and factual, without interpretation .

So it's like spying on the aspirants. A participant premie once told me about a phone conference when this information was passed to all US communities, and it was described to me differently than just observation: An spy for the lord: Yuck!
Rawat uses funny ways to justify his trip to convince people he's special, when in reality, all is a game. I have a feeling that in some point he'll 'dismantle' Elan Vital - for 'wrongdoings' unknow to him (not)- and will create a new organization, just as he did with the Divine Light Mission. Rawat is VERY creepy.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 17:18:51 (GMT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: SB
Subject: Don't trust the aspirants!
Message:
Please fill out forms based on your own observations or those of other aspirant team members; there is no need to ask the aspirants themselves.

This is crazy. Paranoid. God forbid they should just ASK aspirants how many videos they've seen. I mean, those dastardly aspirants, they could be just lying if they say they've been to ten when they've only seen one. God forbid they should be trusted to tell the truth. Paranoia is written all over this. And for what? Even if they did lie about it, who gives a shit? What's going to happen, they might receive Knowledge before they're ready? Oh, my! God forbid somebody should learn how to meditate before they've seen enough videos. LOL! Just gotta laugh. LOL!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 17:36:14 (GMT)
From: Well I'm an aspirant and
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: I don't mind the supervision
Message:
You guys are the paranoid ones. What's wrong with allowing my new teacher to monitor my progress so masterfully? I understand that he has to be exquisite in the execution of his plan (and it IS his plan we're talking about. I don't see any of you with a plan to really help people find something within inside, do I?). Maybe if some of you would have been properly monitored you might have actually understood something. Anyway, Maharaji's watching our development closely because he knows how important it is to establish that trust. It's important we don't lie or exaggerate about our video attendance. And if we trust him we don't mind him finding out the simple facts -- yes, free of interpretation!

We are learning so much from him. Especially gratitude! Too bad you guys have forgotten all that. But I bet you could come back if you wanted. (Although I don't think you'll get credit for any of the old videos you watched. You have to start fresh and no breaks. M'kay?)

Jim

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 19:23:48 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Well I'm an aspirant and
Subject: Aspirant?
Message:
Your an aspirant? I thought an aspirant isn't supposed to know?

I reckon your a good little premie trying to have us on

We can smell conditioning a mile away.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 19:34:14 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Got me going then Jim .You trickster! (nt)
Message:
nn
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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 19:27:52 (GMT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Hal
Subject: Just kidding, Hal (nt)
Message:
n
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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 18:51:05 (GMT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Well I'm an aspirant and
Subject: Thank you for having understanding
Message:
Thank you so much for expressing your gratitude for the Master not letting you get away with faking understanding.

We all know that aspirants are basically miserable, confused people who don't have knowledge. I, myself, greatly enjoy reporting on them to the Instructors. Sometimes I have noticed that these people are daydreaming, even SLEEPING during a riviting video in which Maharaji eloquently speaks about THAT PLACE, over and over and over for 58.2 minutes, in a video with a title as intriguing, as 'Suck Your Thirst' and 'Feel that Place.' We have to watch them constantly to ensure that they are duly attentive, and exhibit a certain level of groveling to the premies, the instructor, and, of course, to the Master.

It makes me feel very special and superior to lord it over Pw/oK. It is one of the few perks we premies get anymore, now that we can't be sadistic ashram coordinators, initiators, and EV honchos. And it is SO beautiful.

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 05:09:37 (GMT)
From: Jackie
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Lovely to see you
Message:
Dear Sister,

It's lovely to have you back. I was wondering where you had gone. I missed your humour, your long dresses and sandles or are you now wearing silk suits?

Keep pressing those buttons - us sisters need to lighten up!

Jackie

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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 17:31:59 (GMT)
From: Pauline Premie
Email: None
To: Jackie
Subject: You Are Confused
Message:
Jackie, I long ago stopped wearing long skirts and earth shoes. It's strickly yuppie, designer clothes, now. This aging-young-republican garb is de riguer of premies these days. Get real. And I am not trying to be funny. This is deadly serious. It's about the meaning of life and the opportunity to recognize the Master. There is nothing to be light about. Those evangelical Christians have nothing over us premies for knowing and espousing the rules. And there are rules, believe me. If you want to get knowledge, you better start worshipping the Master RIGHT NOW. If you hang around listening to these confused ex-premies, you will not have THAT understanding, which is essential to have THAT love, THAT truth, THAT experience, which is THAT gift, for which we are gifted to be in THAT place, which is so beautiful. Then you can have devotion, I mean gratitude, do service, I mean participate, and do propogation, I mean aid Maharaji is disseminating knowledge through the purchase of expensive planes, cars and palacial homes.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 19:27:19 (GMT)
From: Hal
Email: None
To: Pauline Premie
Subject: Your humour is way better than fatguru's (nt)
Message:
nn
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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 17:24:11 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Right, the whole stuff speaks by himself!
Message:
That's why I think these genuine documents are very precious.

You may say anything you want on EV, Ratwat etc, but reading these documents says it all....

This is an absurd organization.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 17:27:55 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Same thing reading Scientology's documents!
Message:
You wouldn't believe any organization would issue that sort of documents!

Have you read some of their stuff? The parallel is extremely interesting.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 11:33:00 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Don't miss! Confession of an ex-aspirant contact
Message:
While I was involved doing service/slaving with Elan Vital as the video librarian part of my “service” was to learn the content of each video, to recommend them to
people at all stages, mainly, to facilitate propagation. The following is a transcript of a video only to be shown or lended to people waiting to receive knowledge, so to speak, already “in the oven”, already hooked. Service is an espression of love. Do service!

Maharaji’s hidden present agenda shows itself in this particular edited video and I decided to comment on it to prove that he hasn’t change. His message is the same as of the 70’s: The ultimate goal of a human being is to find a guru/master and become his devotee, his premie, a lover of him. He wants adoration. He tells people to avoid by all means trying to understand knowlege with their intellect saying that cannot be done, and that is to begin the process of erasing people’s personality creating a new one, full of HIS ideas. Devotion is IT. During the process since a person is introduced to knowledge until she/he receives it there are different videos they have to watch, according to the instructors working for him. What follows is a video that an aspirant is suppossed to watch, a must, before they receive it.

“An Expression of Love” - Visions International- Released on 12-22-1998

Video for Aspirants ( people who want to receive knowledge) 12 minutes long

Begining of video:

“Is an expression. Is an expression of a feeling. Being part of the most incredible thing that‘s happening in this planet Earth.

Read it: It isn’t just incredible, it’s the most incredible thing happening... THE MOST. To this point people have already been introduced to the word master and a trust toward him has developed, so, if the master says it’s the most incredible thing, then, it must be.

And it requires some understanding of what knowledge is, it requires some understanding about what a master is.

In the beginig stage a person watches videos and hears “all is about you, you as an individual” as he talks in his introductory videos, to later become a requirement to have some understanding about the master. Later, is not about you anymore, but him.

This is about something very beautiful. You enjoying this life and you enjoying this existance and you enjoying this opportunity. And for me, service is a natural outcome. Is like when it rained, yesterday, and this morning all the grass has become green. Why? Not because somebody went and painted it green, but if the sun is there, if the water is there, and that is what it needed. And when it got that water, then that is its natural outcome. To turn green. To grow. To look beautiful. And service is the same way. There is Knowledge. There is the master. And there is that person, that premie (devotee) who has that love.

Comment: At the begining people are called students, but notice how at the aspirant satage they are called premies/lovers. That is the main reason why Elan Vital provides a list of the videos people are to watch. One by one, each video, to introduce his “new” ideas. To fill people’s intellect with his concepts. You are not a person, and individual, you became a lover, a devotee.

And when they experience that Knowledge in their lives, and they experience that gratitud en their lives, then something beautiful happens, an expression needs to come out.

Comment: ...an expresssion needs to come out. In other videos to be watched before this stage of waiting for knowledge Maharaji introduces SERVICE explaining that each aspect of HIS mission is done by people who want to help, by those that want to, a free thing: If you want to do service, do it. Only if you want to. By in a later stage new concepts are presented in other videos. Gratitude toward the master is said over and over and at the latest stage when a person suppossedly have made their mind up of wanting knowledge, service is a need. A person has a need to do service, for the master.

And that expression is what service is. And to me maybe that is too much by the book. Sorry to say, that’s too ideal. But then again, if in this life, in this human life that we have, if we cannot do...to do it right, then, what is the point? What’s the point of doing anything.

Comment: I am the master and I tell you what is the right thing and then, if you don’t do it you are doing it wrong.

You see these rats running around in laboratories what do they accomplish? You see these hamster on pet stores going around on these wheels, and what...what do they accomplish? Nothing. And when a human being says, okay, I have this life, I want to do it right, not for somebody, and not because of somebody’s dogma or somebody’s idea, but I want to do it right for myself. Doing it right is an expression of gratitud to the Creator. Living this life conciously is an expression of gratitud ... to that very thing that allows you to be here.
And people think, you know, that’s taking a chicken and beheading it on some rock, that is an expression of gratitude. No. That is not gratitude! That is beheading a chicken. Period. Or putting $10 in a box. That’s exactly what that it’s, putting $10 in a box. But living this life, when you can feel, you can feel the goodness of it... When you can feel the beauty of it....Of what it means to be alive. Not caught in the problems. Not caught in the ideas. But its own beauty. Not that’s being super imposed by people’s ideas, but its own beauty. Its own existence. That’s when it becomes so wonderful.

Now with music on background and images of mountains and waters he says:

But again, is an expression, and so far that love is there, indead it will be no shortage of that expression. And wonderful things can happen. What is it about? Free people. The product of love. That is who we are. An expression... of joy, an expression of love.”

An excerpt from other event was added.

“To see the beautiful stars, to see the human beings admiring those stars. Anybody watching, anybody watchting is got (sic) to say this is expression of love. -Music stops- To see a beautiful sunset and to see the human beings enjoying it, enjoying it. That have to be an expression of love. I’m sorry... Ha! But, it is... Seing a child frolic, in the waves, enjoying, people enjoying, that has to be an expression of love. That’s what we have been given. That’s that simplicity. You accept. Is up to you. You want? Is up to you. The opportunity to hear the Master, is up to you. The opportunity to participate in any which way that you can, that is synchronized, is up to you... Is up to you. Is up to you. The joy of it it also be yours. What can happen? Amazing things can happen. So many countries I see that. One person’s entusiasm can light the fire of propagation in an entire country. How amazing is that? How amazing... I hear it, I see it...I am impressed...I’ve been doing it for a long, long time... I’ve been to countries with no people with knowledge, and the next thing you know is a lot of people with knowledge and so on and so for...And then, even in this day and age, to see one person take charge and go out there, and say, I want to do it! I want to do it! I want to do it in a synchronized way. I want to do it! And the whole country lights up...
I am impressed... It happened in Japan... For such a long time it was, nothing, nothing, nothing, and then all of a sudden one person’s entusiasm spread like wild fire, and then everybody, everybody, (with a little soft pitiful voice...) the country is flying...

You know what propagation is all about? There’s a magazine. I don’t know that if it was sold here or if it was available here or not, but is all about propagation. And I was, I was looking at the prototype of that magazine. There were some pictures in it...And there were pictures of a person standing up and holding a magazine, and there were a bunch of people sitting on the ground, you know...50, 60 people sitting on the ground listening to this person, and imiadiatly I knew where it was, because there are places where is no electricity, people don’t have tapes recorders and one person gets up and reads to this people... And you look at that... and I heard about it, I hadn’t seen it, and believe me seeing that is incredibly touching...These people, wherever they are, in the remotest places, they don’t have electricity. They don’t have all of those conviniences...And somebody just stands up and reads. Here are the words. And they understand...( making fun of people, moving hands like: yuck...)

People in the West always get into this thing...I don’t want to go to a video program. Is just a video program...Hmm...(shaking head) Is the message. Don’t go to watch the video. Go to hear the message. (long pause) A lot of people, you know, they contribute whatever they contribute, and most of it go to the events. Well, you pay for it, you may as well come and see! He he ... So?... how beautiful. What a gorgeous opportunity. And it’s still unfolding. Where it all begins from? It begins from accepting that knowledge, accepting the experience. Accepting the Master. Accepting this opportunity, accepting this life. No one is before the other. They are all the same. All the acceptance...(pause, thinking what to say) And all the enjoyment. Enjoy.

Music and images from air of mountains, the desert and water.

A lot of people say what can I do? The pysichal doing, (loud, emphasizing doing) - and giggling) that comes when the time comes. That’s an expression of gratitude. And so? Come from that place. When that opportunity knocks, take it! And then when, you can understand that, with a heart full of love, heart full of devotion... With a heart full of gratitud...Then you are ready to participate.

Ends with a picture of a sunrise.


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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 02:32:16 (GMT)
From: Peter Howie
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Thanks for this one JM - I appreciate your efforts
Message:
Premie culture dictated that thanks were for the mind and created pride and other nasty things.

In organisations in Australia and in the Australian psyche there is a tendency to think good work is the expected norm and you only talk to someone when they get it wrong. Otherwise a person gets swell-headed.

Thank you for your efforts. They have assisted me. What has assisted me is:-
a) Your postings here (tid-bits of juicy info etc)
b) Your wry and pointed comments
c) The photos have brought back great and terrible memories for which I am grateful
d) Your contribution to the welfare of others.

Cheers for now

Peter Howie

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 15:25:16 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Another chilling post JM keep up the good work!
Message:
I too have a hard time with today's organization when I read about it. I must say I am beginning to think the days of Arti trays and baragons were in a way LESS strange. It is so scripted and controlled. It is also insulting to whomever is the recipient of this directive. They are not even given the benefit of the doubt in how to send a fax. That strikes me as really creepy. I guess cults have to show their colors no matter how they have evolved ( to use what appears to be a favorite buzzword) the outward craziness ( malas, arti trays, giant thrones with empty chairs) has been replaced with this intensely controlling organization that appears to think it has everything to hide. YECH!

One thing that IS clear to me is that although I was tongue in cheek yesterday about how to build a better cult is that people of this new millenium will run as fast and more consistantly from a cult that presents itself this way than they even did from the weirdness in the seventies.

Lets just hope that people all over the world are learning to think critically and that no cult will be as a successful at ensnaring new recruits as so many cults were in the seventies.

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 14:12:25 (GMT)
From: Marianne
Email: MarianneDB@aol.com
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: EV housecleaning, gratitude, and service
Message:
Jean-Michel: I've read these posts over several times since yesterday. Having been out of the cult for so many years, the video notion is entirely alien to me. The comments on the video and the poster's editorial comments really bothered me.

This is what I deduced: Back in the olden days of DLM, the opportunities for service to M were myriad. Service was very liberally construed. You could go over and vacuum the ashram, clean the loo, drive people around, wheat paste posters for the next mahatma visit, etc. All of this was seen as service directly to M because it helped to spread the message. And, at that time, most of us were poor hippies, with not alot of money to donate. Much of DLM was built on this kind of 'sweat equity'. Back in the '70's, money was not the primary focus, but it eventually emerged as a primary focus in the mid-decade, which prompted me to get out.

But, back then, you did not have to give money to M in order to do service to him. This worked well for premies who didn't have anything to give but their labor. On the other hand, a multi national organization was built, and tremendous sums of money were spent to sustain it rather than M.

Things have changed dramatically in the ensuing years. A sort of cyber-organization exists, but nothing on the level of the grand old days. Today, opportunities for service are very limited. The only real way to do anything for M is to give him gratitude -- hard, cold cash. M got rid of the pesky middle-man (or middle-organization) and is funneling everything to himself.

That the introductory videos so blatantly seek 'gratitude' disgusts me. In the beginning, there was at least the facade that receving k was going to allow you to better yourself and humankind. The facade is gone now. Virtually the only way to give gratitude is to give money to M. How anyone can swallow this crap is beyond me.

M wants to clean house because he's not getting enough 'gratitude'. He's furious that EV documents and plans are being laid bare on ex-premie sites even as the plans are made.

You taught us this particular form of personal treachery, Rotwat, and now it has come back to haunt you. Welcome to the funhouse!

Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 16:58:48 (GMT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Yes and No Marianne
Message:
The financial service is definitely a major issue in EV, but premies are not directly introduced to it, even though financial 'participation' and donations are constantly asked for.

There is a lot of activities going on unofficially, i.e. beside the 'video events' and programs.

There are constant meetings and seminars and trainings for the people involved in service. And meetings and seminars and trainings to organize all the meetings semainars and trainings. To a point it's absolutely ridiculous. Not speaking of the phone hook-ups and conferences.

And this is valid for EV's activities, and all the parallel unofficial international staff taking care of organizing all this.

Absolute crazyness.

This is what service is nowadays!!! I'm not sure you can imagine this. And there are so many areas of 'service': security of course ('special ushers'), ushering, aspirants, mailings, information, video distribution, finances, instructors, legal department, PR, MCs, city contacts, video contacts, intl 'events', fundraisings, EVF support, etc etc and synchronizing the whole thing, and organizing all the semainars and trainings etc etc ..... Oh, I forgot the 'residence' support etc etc

Utter crazyness!!!

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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 15:15:07 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: well said Marianne (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 13:08:21 (GMT)
From: SB
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: :( nt
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Mar 02, 2000 at 11:24:00 (GMT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Aspirants lurkers: Please READ THIS!
Message:
This bit says it all:

'11. When interacting with aspirants:
a. Maintain confidentiality and be discreet
b. Avoid personal relationships'

It's kind of chilling, to me anyway. Very cold and calculating. You'd have to be a virtual robot to carry out these kind of orders.

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 05:45:32 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Stepford Wives
Message:
Yup, that 'no personal relationships' thing is real sicko. Remember the emphasis on 'personalities' (meant negatively--as if our personalities were the stuff of the devil-mind). I liked the post from the other day, forget who wrote it, saying that cults tend to pressure people into having the same personality. Quite a Stepford Wife scenario: 'Can't allow the videodrones to socialize and input new information, wouldn't be proper, must continue the mission so they have the right understanding, bleep, bleep.'

I think I agree with Susan that the wild wacky premie days of the 70's had a few more perks then the dry, robotic video-sessions of today. 'Why in my day, we were all nuts and wackos prostrating openly at Maharaji's feet, today a person can't even go on a space out binge and then get darshan to absolve their sins, it's no fun anymore' 'Oh shut up, Grandpa'

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Date: Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 05:12:00 (GMT)
From: beeb
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: 'Oh shut up grandpa'
Message:
That was funny Helen.
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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 07:43:39 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Helen
Subject: Stepford Wives vs. psycho guilt binge
Message:
I'm not so sure Helen. Those days were so split.
the roller coaster was so hard on everyone. It was so
unnatural. Impossible to have any semblence of a normal
lifestyle. This shit now is, I agree awful.
Definitely Stepford Wives, I give you that.
Phony and bizarre.
But they can leave it at the rented library door.
And get back in the new Toyota and get on with life
until next week.
Now mind you they DON'T leave it internally but at least physically they can do stuff all week, like show up at work and appear to pay attention, etc...

Those days... there was no way to have any life outside the cult.
Just total chaos and guilt and besides, I don't know about
you but I hated darshan, just tried to convince myself I liked it.

I have to say they were both horrible. Just different.

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Date: Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 05:38:13 (GMT)
From: Helen
Email: None
To: Selene and Susan
Subject: yes you are right
Message:
It definitely was a roller coaster. It's not that I am nostalgizing, or maybe I am. It's just that maybe in the old days there was more permission to be 'out there' with one's devotion, it was more honest* maybe. Now I imagine people are very low key and cool about it all, & you are right they can go in and out of their lives 'in the world' without that weird 'through the looking glass feeling' that we had in the past. *However the word 'honest' could be analyzed a million ways when referring to being a premie

Sometimes I do miss being a premie, Susan, you and I have talked about that, I did have some good times and met some great crazy people with whom, ironically I could really be myself. Granted I also met people who were nuttier than fruitcakes in an insidious scary way too, in a Stepford Wife kind of way.

But Selene, you and Susan are right, it was pernicious either way you slice it, the 'out there' 70's or the 'I am too hip to gush about Maharaji' 90's (oh, wait it's 2000!)

Saw an amazing play today called Wit (well really it's spelled W;t). Punctuation is significant in the play because the main character is a scholar who focuses on the subtleties of John DOnnes' poems, including how they are punctuated. It's a play about dealing with death, very intense, and very moving, the basic point of it all (to me) was that we all need human love and compassion. And that intellectualising will only go so far in 'saving us' (I don't mean salvation in the conventional sense though Donne's poems were heavy into his 'salvation anxiety')when we all face that moment of death. we'll want someone holding our hand and comforting us. If the play comes to your cities I highly recommend it!

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Date: Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 16:50:38 (GMT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Selene and Helen
Subject: Stepford Wives vs. psycho guilt binge
Message:
This is interesting. If I had become a premie in the video post ashram era I would guess it would have been less of a destructive force in my life. It seems educations are not discouraged any longer for one. So once you realize it is a con these days maybe you have not thrown away as much of your potential.

But I can't see that I would have even become a premie given the way K is presented. The satsangs were a pretty strong force in my indoctrination. I was so enchanted with the way the premies seemed to love eachtoher, it was like joining this loving group of people to me. It is hard to say. I certainly was vulnerable to cult think. Maybe I was ripe for the picking either way.

Certainly though, some of the ex's who came and left only in the video era seem to at least have lives to go back to, and that must be in a way easier. But I think emotionally the damage is the same, as it dawns on you you have been fooled in the biggest way possible.

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Date: Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 02:15:08 (GMT)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Stepford Wives vs. psycho guilt binge
Message:
It's so hard to know how much damage is done in
the video days. I imagine it sucks, knowing you have been duped and also it must be hard getting there by friends.
I mean, it is how it always has been, friends or at least close associates of some sorts bring one to these introductory things.

So yes, the awakening and leaving must be tough.

But no, Susan. I doubt it compares to the 70's and a
residual 80's (and for me sadly 90's)
So much chaos cannot fit into a short story.

Helen is so right though about the dumbing down of those video events. It's what finally got me out was seeing eveyone go in, sit down, get up walk out. Like robots. Very very strange.

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Date: Tues, Mar 07, 2000 at 04:35:42 (GMT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Stepford Wives vs. psycho guilt binge
Message:
Hi you guys,
SUSAN, I remember the amount of backbiting and in group stuff and heavy judgemental stuff the went on in hartford. louie colon and steve bottaro were vicious and frankly loved to gossip. I was sitting on the front stairwell at hamilton street and overheard lots of gossip.......or was that YOU that was there and heard it. Remember?
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Date: Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 20:29:48 (GMT)
From: cqg
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: 'Avoid personal relationships...' Jagdeo? (nt)
Message:
'Avoid personal relationships...' Jagdeo? (nt)
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