Forum IV: The Ex-Premie Forum
Archive: 14
From: Wed, Dec 15, 1999 To: Thurs, Dec 30, 1999 Page: 2 Of: 5


CBl -:- Left the Rest -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 08:51:15 (EST)
__ bb -:- Re: Left the Rest -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 12:43:42 (EST)
__ Took/Left -:- Re: Left the Rest -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 11:21:38 (EST)
__ __ bb -:- Re: Left the Rest -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 14:45:16 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Re: Your Question -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 10:08:26 (EST)

JHB -:- Going to Latvia for a month -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 05:28:45 (EST)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Re: Going to Latvia for a month -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 04:50:23 (EST)
__ bb -:- Re: Going to Latvia for a month -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 12:31:39 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Re: Going to Latvia for a month -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 06:10:10 (EST)
__ __ Marianne -:- Re: Going to Latvia for a month -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 13:45:46 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Question -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 09:43:38 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Answer -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 11:40:55 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- No comment (and lower your voice please- headache) NT -:- Wed, Dec 22, 1999 at 06:54:23 (EST)

Jean-Michel -:- Looking for a book ... -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 04:13:57 (EST)

Took What I Needed.. -:- Left the Rest -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 00:45:06 (EST)
__ michael -:- Re: Left the Rest -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 21:23:46 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Re: Left the Rest -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 06:14:20 (EST)
__ JHB -:- Re: Left the Rest -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 05:05:41 (EST)

Runamok -:- By Special Request -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 17:24:07 (EST)
__ Shp -:- Re: By Special Request -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 20:33:09 (EST)
__ __ AJW -:- Love Peace and Strong Skunk for All Sandy (nt) -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 09:54:07 (EST)
__ __ __ Shp -:- As the strong skunk wandered thru the purple haze into the sunshine... -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 16:56:03 (EST)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- What was that Sandy, a bag of magic mushrooms or a bottle of malt? (nt) -:- Wed, Dec 22, 1999 at 12:56:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Pure imagination without external stimulus other than your post. -:- Wed, Dec 22, 1999 at 17:17:40 (EST)
__ Jim -:- Fuck taht shit -- where's the meat, Run? -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 17:47:54 (EST)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- The Silver Lining -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 03:49:12 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Re: Fuck taht shit -- where's the meat, Run? -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 17:51:29 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Yes, John, I'm beginng to think you're right -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 18:06:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Runamok -:- Is that agya? -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 22:16:11 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- You're as bad as the premies who post here, Run -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 22:50:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- Bully, Jim -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 00:08:19 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- You? Ethical? Get off it Run. -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 11:54:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- Re: You? Ethical? Get off it Run. -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 14:03:51 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- But you miss the point here, Run -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 21:46:40 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- points and lines -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 00:14:25 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Dunce Caps and Dildos -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 00:34:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- best and worst -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 00:48:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- But Jim IS a problem, silly. -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 01:06:35 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- but Ger did threaten -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 01:19:59 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Re: but Ger did threaten -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 01:53:27 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- What the fuck ??? -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 15:11:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- greetings from the dark side -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 20:46:10 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Re: greetings from the dark side -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 23:35:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- ********** Best of Ger ********** -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 00:31:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Re: ********** Best of Ger ********** -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 00:50:23 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- my friend Selene -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 01:36:41 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Re: my friend Selene -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 01:49:42 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- Re: my friend Selene -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 03:29:14 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- Re: greetings from the dark side -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 23:41:10 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Oh, and by the way, asshole... -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 15:22:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- Funny, Ger. -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 16:05:40 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- It's a wrap, then, Run -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 01:33:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- Look, Ger -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 01:44:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Now hear This !!! -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 13:00:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Run - you're far worse then Jim -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 05:23:20 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Re: Run - you're far worse then Jim -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 14:48:31 (EST)

Jim -:- Now this'll break your heart -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 16:17:26 (EST)
__ A Messenger -:- Jim, the pleasure of your company is requested -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 14:24:47 (EST)
__ Mike -:- Re: Now this'll break your heart -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 12:44:04 (EST)
__ AJW -:- It's a pity... -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 06:19:25 (EST)
__ Susan -:- And they say its not a CULT???? (nt) -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 21:33:04 (EST)
__ __ O -:- Re: And they say its not a CULT???? (nt) -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 03:43:20 (EST)
__ __ Cheryl -:- Re: And they say its not a CULT???? (nt) -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 08:12:42 (EST)
__ Susan -:- That is perfectly revolting (ntI -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 21:31:06 (EST)

Jim -:- Premie porn -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 16:09:06 (EST)
__ AJW -:- Re: Premie porn continued. -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 06:28:05 (EST)
__ __ Mike -:- BWAH, HA HA HA HA -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 12:49:04 (EST)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: BWAH, HA HA HA HA -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 23:44:29 (EST)
__ __ __ Selene -:- Re: BWAH, HA HA HA HA -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 21:20:52 (EST)
__ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Mikey likes it! -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 17:34:15 (EST)
__ __ __ The Artist formerly known as Mickey the P -:- ĦHey Mike! -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 14:41:51 (EST)
__ __ Monmot -:- Re: Premie porn continued. -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 11:47:20 (EST)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Que?. -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 04:50:06 (EST)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- I found the wings Monmot. -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 09:51:59 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Liz -:- Re: I found the wings Monmot. -:- Wed, Dec 22, 1999 at 01:22:24 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Monmot -:- Re: I found the wings Monmot. -:- Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 20:44:52 (EST)
__ Cynthia -:- Re: That Used to be Me -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 16:56:59 (EST)

Jim -:- Sorry, can't resist -- oh Runamok?? -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 15:28:46 (EST)
__ barney -:- What about me? -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 15:34:31 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- Okay, you can go too (but, a warning ....) -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 15:37:43 (EST)
__ __ __ barney -:- Re: Okay, you can go too (but, a warning ....) -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 15:50:24 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- You asked me WHAT???? -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 15:54:00 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ barney -:- You gurus are all the same -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 16:09:12 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- It's not what you said but how you said it -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 16:13:05 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ barney -:- And after all these years... -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 16:21:33 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yes, let's talk about all those years -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 16:32:14 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ barney -:- I only did what I was told to do -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 17:05:49 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Yeah, but you had that little grain of salt under your tongue, now didn't you?? -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 17:37:52 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ barney -:- Ok, ok, ok! I surrender -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 17:49:28 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Lurk -:- The chihuahua -gracious as ever -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 16:56:30 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Jim and the Disappearing Posters -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 10:29:14 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Welcome -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 02:44:39 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Business as usual -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 18:15:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Re: A Prick is a Prick is a Prick -:- Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 04:57:33 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Selene -:- It's not a competition -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 20:29:55 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Fuck off with the pr threats, bud -:- Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 18:03:59 (EST)


Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 08:51:15 (EST)
From: CBl
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Left the Rest
Message:
Dear Left the Rest,
Even though I have never been directly involved with this cult, I have experienced the paranoia. My partner who has been a devotee since the early 70's left a cassette in his car and on borrowing it one time I took a detour and played it. It was very clearly marked 'For people who have received knowledge'. While I was listening to it my heart was beating fast and I half expected to have another car run up my bum while I was sitting there.
The cassette was about not making time for meditation, service and video programs etc. He said something like 'how many children do you have'. 300? 'I could understand it if you have 300 children.' At the time I was wondering where me and my three children fitted into my partners life, with all of the above being carried out by him, to the letter. So there was something on that cassette for me too I guess.
What does Australian politics have to do with this site?. Joh Bjelke and Mahraji have a lot in common if we are drawing comparisons.
Well, that is enough about that.
Question: Are Mahraji's devotees discouraged from having the uninitiated as beaus. If so, would fellow devotees quietly throw the odd spanner in the works? Just wondering?
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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 12:43:42 (EST)
From: bb
Email: None
To: CBl
Subject: Re: Left the Rest
Message:
the guru was clearly against ANY relationship except
your LOVE for him and him alone.
He was the lord you know. the ultimate ruler
is how he described himself when the mood struck.

Best of luck dealing with your partner!
It is more work than I would want to take on at this point.

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 11:21:38 (EST)
From: Took/Left
Email: None
To: CBl
Subject: Re: Left the Rest
Message:
The last time I saw Maharaji (1995), most of my old ashram premie friends were married and had children. Still, the underlying theme is total devotion to Maharaji. Premies would argue, perhaps, that it is all about devotion: where one chooses to place one's focus. Apparently premies can have it all nowadays. (Mind you, back in my day, we weren't allowed to have sex or eat meat or chit-chat about the weather. This new breed of whippersnappers know nothing of devotion. I don't see any of them leaving their spouses and children to join an ashram and devote their lives to this Knowledge, the most precious gift).

In my conversations with premies lately, I have observed a certain attitude which one might see among people belonging to long-established Christian religions, i.e., attending church on Sunday, cursing and smoking and carousing the rest of the week. What is that called--hypocrisy? The attitude that Knowledge, Maharaji, and Perfection are fundamentally unattainable allows for the same sort of behaviour in premies. Worse yet is that smug, truly arrogant belief that 'I have the truth, and no one else does' elitist mentality.

Not all premies are like this, of course, but many of those I've known since Millenium exhibit these attitudes and behaviors. I, myself, admit that I enjoy a good meditation from time to time. But one cannot gain ones' inspiration to meditate from Maharaji because of the overt and covert method of brainwashing he employs. His supercilious, self-aggrandizing message interferes with the primary purpose of meditation: self-realization. Maharaji's brand of self-realization leads to loss of freedom and giving up of one's power. It works for awhile, especially in cases where internal discipline must be learned in order to experience deep meditation. But just as children must be taught self-sufficiency, a true guru would show devotees how to be truly free.

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 14:45:16 (EST)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Took/Left
Subject: Re: Left the Rest
Message:
I would be interested in hearing about one 'true guru'.
And what would that 'truly free' be?

Iknow some premies still and they do sound like the ones
you describe so well.

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 10:08:26 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: anthginn@yahoo.com
To: CBl
Subject: Re: Your Question
Message:
Hi CBI,

You've asked an interesting question.

Twenty five years ago the answer would have been straightforward. Devotees were quietly discouraged from having any sort of beau. Your life was supposed to be dedicated to Lord, who was walking among us. You may have been okay having some sort of relationship with a non-premie, in the context that you were 'bringing him or her to Knowledge', but once they were trapped, the correct way to realise the purpose of your life was to totally dedicate it to Maharaji, in the ashram, with no worldly goods, sex, drugs or any other of the good things in life. Personal relationships were a 'no no'.
Things have changed a bit. It's because the old trip- Lord on Earth, Peace for Mankind in a few years, etc, wasn't working out. As the years passed, it became obvious that the multitudes weren't flocking to his lotus feet, and lions were still looking on lambs as snacks, rather than woolly brothers and sisters.

So what happened next? Over the years, a new, more 'acceptable' veneer has come to cover the guru cult. We no longer call him Lord of the Universe in public. There are no more ashrams. No more nightly satsang (indoctrination) evenings. Just a 'teacher'. and his four techniques to give you inner peace. No need to leave your husband or wife. No need to give up sex. No more 'spritual, avatar on earth' stuff.

This is, however, a veneer. Because at the heart of the cult, Maharji and his closest devotees, still believe he's the Lord come again, playing his game on earth. What is said publicly, is quite different from what is believed privately.

In private, all the old stuff we were brainwashed with in 70s is still believed. And I'm pretty sure this includes the relationship stuff- how it separates you from him etc.

This isn't pushed at all in public anymore, but amongst those 'who know'- usually with a full time position in the cult- the same old hindu claptrap lingers on.

I've observed this growing split between what premies say in public and what they say in private. It's confusing for them, as they have to carry around two sets of beliefs nowadays. One he's just a teacher. Two he's still the Perfect Master (God incarnate).

Basically it's a big contradictory mess and the premies aren't really sure what they're supposed to believe any more.

Anth the Beau.

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 05:28:45 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: brauns@dircon.co.uk
To: All
Subject: Going to Latvia for a month
Message:
I'll be on line occasionally from the internet cafe in Riga, but I just wanted to send a couple of messages.

To the people who stay focussed on what this forum is about, thank you and carry on the good work.

To the premies who try to take advantage of divisions between exes - you're fooling no one. I know you're just trying to do your master's work in disrupting this forum. There are enough of us here that will ensure that doesn't happen.

And to those exes who feel they cannot contribute here. All the best, and I hope you'll take a look here occasionally.

John.

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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 04:50:23 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Going to Latvia for a month
Message:
Have a good trip. It's been good having you around. I'll have to investigate what and where Latvia is. Wish I had somewhere to go.

Take care

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 12:31:39 (EST)
From: bb
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Going to Latvia for a month
Message:
Maybe you want to go to
WWW.WBN>COM/Y2kTIMEBOMB/IW/AK/iw9921.HTM

for some news from and about LATVIA

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 06:10:10 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Going to Latvia for a month
Message:
Have a good trip and a good Christmas John, and thanks for a great night again on Friday, in that basement in Queensway that is ever part of Latvia.

See you in the next Millennium (did you know it's got 2 'n's).

Take care and have fun,

Anth the Vanillavodkad

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 13:45:46 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Going to Latvia for a month
Message:
Merry Christmas, John! Have a safe trip and enjoy whatever New Year's celebration you're having.

Marianne

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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 09:43:38 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Question
Message:
Hi Marianne,

When are coming over to this side of the pond?

Anth the Duck

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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 11:40:55 (EST)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Answer
Message:
I leave SF the 29th & get into Cork on the 30th. After I get settled in, I'll make plans to come to the UK. Looks like there won't be another Latvian beer night until Feb. anyway. Seems you need that amount of time to recover!

Marianne

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Date: Wed, Dec 22, 1999 at 06:54:23 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: No comment (and lower your voice please- headache) NT
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 04:13:57 (EST)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Looking for a book ...
Message:
Hi you all ....

I've just received this e-mail:

Hi Jean,

I haven't been on line for a while and was wondering if you had come across 'The Lord as guru - Hindi Sants in the N. Indian Tradition' by Daniel Gold? I picked it up a couple of years ago in a second-hand book store in Seattle, Washington. An excellent read if you have the time.

A.

Anybody owning this book ? Is it worth reading or having some excerpts online ?

And don't forget:

How People Recognize Charisma The experience of knowledge: ecstatic merging of a separate sense of self with the Absolute.

Biggest hit ever on my website ....

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 00:45:06 (EST)
From: Took What I Needed..
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Left the Rest
Message:
After wandering for many years in the desert, I found an oasis of love. My heart opened, and I felt bliss and peace. Within its complexity, it was really quite simple--a way of seeing as though for the first time, always. Maharaji doesn't hold the patent on the elixir of life. Neither do the other cults and religions and belief systems. But for a time, I thought he did. And for that period of time, Grace guided me and unfolded miracles for me to witness.

I no longer worship Maharaji as my guru, but I have taken with me the experience of who I really am. Perhaps my experience was positive because I stopped doing so many drugs when I received Knowledge (except when the pure LSD-25 came around). It became negative when I was programmed to believe that Maharaji was God, and I would do anything I could to be closer to him.

At one point, I sensed that I was caught up in the 'I have found the only true way to God' trap. I belonged to a group who supported me in my illusion because the members knew this to be true as well. The programming was reinforced night after night in Satsang. And when this supplanted my previous belief system, I was hooked into an addictive cycle of needing to see my Guru Maharaj Ji, kiss his holy lotus feet, hear his sweet voice.

Extricating myself from this cult proved to be difficult. Physically moving away from premies and getting therapy helped, but I still had deep-seated fears that Maharaji might actually be God, and my life would be okay if only I would really devote myself to Him. Coincidentally, the ties were severed forever when I started surfing the net, looking for some inspiration. Instead, I read thread after thread of the ex-premie forum and found myself processing my doubts and fears and beliefs much quicker than ever before.

At one point, I became paranoid thinking that Maharaji could trace the fact that I was online reading such blasephemy. In the same way that I couldn't get enough Satsang when I was first a premie, I couldn't get enough of the ex-premie forum. I read the archives for hours daily, unravelling the years of bullshit thinking and finally having the courage to post. It became a support group for me at first, but the bitter fighting and disagreements amongst the members grew tiresome for me, and I've moved onto using the World Wide Web to engage in other pursuits. Still, I have a great deal of gratitude for the ex-premie forum.

Thanks for listening.

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 21:23:46 (EST)
From: michael
Email: mareadba@yahoo.com
To: Took What I Needed..
Subject: Re: Left the Rest
Message:
I too was a premie back in the seventies. I too felt much of what you describe. There is, or at least seemes to me there is, a strong inner need in people to connect with something much greater than ourselves. Therefor when someone comes along exhibiting great power and charisma and proclaims that message that we want to hear, many of us follow.

I first heard of gm in '71 and went ti India in '72. That is where I 'received knowledge'. It was a somewhat anticlimatic experience for me. However, I continued with dlm for a few more years. I met and married my wife through dlm. When my first born at the age of two refused to kiss the feet of gm, I began to re-evaluate the whole concept/experience. 'And a child shall lead them'. I moved away from Portland, OR and stopped attending satsang or having contact with premies. I was never angry or upset with gm or any premie. It was merely time to move on.

I did receive much from the experience. I learned how to meditate and how to look for the answers inside of myself. The meditation techniques revealed in knowledge sessions are actually quite ancient. From meditation I learned that there is much more to life than our tradition of Judeao-Christian/Western capitalististic values. And I learned that there is much more to life than worshiping the 'lord of the universe'.

The answers we seek are within us. When we worship we place the answers outside of ourselves. It has been said that God is everywhere. If this is true, then why get bent out of shape about anything? It seems to me that the best I can do is the best that I can do. This means that I try to be compassionate without crying. I try to be strong without being a bully. I try to be understanding without judgement. And so on and so on and so on. In short I just try to be the best me that I can. I know that I am a part of the all that is. As buddha said when asked who he was - 'I am That'. We all are.

Let your belief systems go and be alive.

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 06:14:20 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: anthginn@yahoo.com
To: Took What I Needed..
Subject: Re: Left the Rest
Message:
Hi Took,

Welcome back to the human race.

When did you quit the cult? How long were you in?

Were you around in the really heavy brainwashing period in the early 70s?

Also, you mentioned acid. This is something I've been chewing over for a while, and I think the pyschedelic brain scrambling of the 60s opened us up for guru abuse.

Have a good one.

Anth the Scrambledeggsforbrains.

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 05:05:41 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Took What I Needed..
Subject: Re: Left the Rest
Message:
To whoever you,

All the best with your journey extricating yourself from the cult. You're right - things have been a bit adversarial here recently, but there's lots of good stuff in between, so I hope you pop around occasionally.

Good luck,

John.

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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 17:24:07 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: All
Subject: By Special Request
Message:
Here is the whole post Jim is stalking about (Oh, I mean talking about...).

I was trying to comply with requests to keep this stuff off of F4. Jim seems to think if it's about him it belongs here.

And for whoever wants to get on my case for posting this, scroll down and look at how these arguments start (i.e., who actually starts them) before you blame me.

Addresssed to some premies dissing JH.

Whoever you are:
I've grown accustomed to your presence. Occasionally I agree with you on something. It's obvious that we may see some exes in a similar light.

But you need to understand something, IMO. If you are so interested in what exes say, don't you think there's a possibility you are doubting your guru?

I can't spend a minute reading Miragey without experiencing total boredom, disgust or a combination of both. If you are so avid in following the words of exes who are consensually opposed to the work of Prem Pal Rawatt, then perhaps you would consider what attracts you to these sites?

I wish there was a forum or format where premies felt like they could talk to exes sanely. I'm really down on Miragey, that's true. But I really don't see Joe Premie as much of a villain, just some new age version of a guy looking for a good time. However, there aren't any places which will protect premies' 'rights' on cyberspots, not run by exes anyway.

If you are here picking fights with Heller or anybody else, ask yourself why you want to hangout with exes in the first place. There are plenty of people who are not confrontational toward you and you're always free to lurk.

You may think Heller proves your point, but don't miss the boat because one guy is a jerk. I knew it was time to leave Miragey when I kept hearing abusiveness in his satsangs. People were killing themselves to follow him and he would act like they were totally stupid or incompetent.

The issue isn't Jim Heller and it never will be. The issue is how people treat each other. I don't want to see people in authority use that authority to abuse others. Miragey still takes the cake at that. Jim needs a few years practice if he is serious about competing with Miragey.

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 20:33:09 (EST)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Re: By Special Request
Message:
To Runamok,

Happy Holidays and all the best in attaining whatever it is that makes you feel whole.

I have had some decent dialogs with both you and gerry individually and I am sorry to read about this mess, even though it is ex-premies going at each other. I just read through this whole thread and boy oh boy. what a tangle. Everybody has their own perspective and believes it to be the truth. I truly hope you guys work it out, irrespective of the fact that we have fundamental disagreements about Maharaji.

As for Jim, well he's just the kiind of guy that takes up alot of space and if you want to get along with him you have to subordinate yourself. As for the characterization of him being an old hippie, I must say that I am an old hippie an know many old hippies and Jim Heller is no old hippie. Personally, I think he's half in the bag when he posts and all his frustrations from his lawyer work come out on us commoners. He's old, maybe, but no hippie, not anymore. Yet I wish Jim the same as you, to find what makes him feel whole and go for it.

I looked for God and God I could not see
I looked for my soul and it was nowhere to be
I looked for my brother and I found all three.

Shp

ps To anyone else who responds to my post expecting some rapid fire dialog from me about this and that and the price of tea in China, fuggetaboutit!

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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 09:54:07 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Love Peace and Strong Skunk for All Sandy (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 16:56:03 (EST)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: As the strong skunk wandered thru the purple haze into the sunshine...
Message:
...the hopeful child gazed thru his windowpane and enjoyed the sights and sounds of Christmas, realizing that even if there was no strong skunk, purple haze, sunshine or windowpane, he had been given the greatest gift of all!

Shpsychedelic

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Date: Wed, Dec 22, 1999 at 12:56:47 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: What was that Sandy, a bag of magic mushrooms or a bottle of malt? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Wed, Dec 22, 1999 at 17:17:40 (EST)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Pure imagination without external stimulus other than your post.
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 17:47:54 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Fuck taht shit -- where's the meat, Run?
Message:
Run,

For a few days now I've been trying to get you to deal with something. You accused me of betraying confidences from private conversations. Remember? So I asked you if that wasn't just what you yourself had done to Gerry. Now for the last time, did you or didn't you do that?

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 03:49:12 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Michael Fitzpatrick and Patrick Fitzmichael
Subject: The Silver Lining
Message:
Jim, it's true that you're the forum's biggest...

But, on the bright side let's look at all the new people who've come out of the woodwork and thrown their two cents in.

Surely, this must be evidence of the thousand points of lurking light that come everyday to this waterhole to drink. Or am I wrong again and it's the same one or two creeps using different handles?

The only problem I see is that these guys and gals don't want to talk about Maharaji. Nope, all they want to do is divert the entire discussion away from Maharaji and talk about you. I mean what are we going to do? I've almost got that deal down with Alta Vista and MSN to link to the forum, but this is going to blow it. People are not interested in Jim Heller. The promised audience that we are delivering to the portals are people who are interested in finding out what a scumbag Maharaji is. There's good demographics that need to be exploited. You've got all these single people who for the first time have a disposable income.

I'm thinking that we should take up a collection and hire Hill & Knowlton. Maharaji has used them in the past and did quite well with them. I suspect that they told Maharaji to drop the God crap.

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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 17:51:29 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Fuck taht shit -- where's the meat, Run?
Message:
Now for the last time, did you or didn't you do that?

Jim,

I hope it is the last time because he obviously isn't going to answer you.

John.

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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 18:06:30 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Yes, John, I'm beginng to think you're right
Message:
I just can't believe it though. I mean how could someone be so shameless? Oh well.
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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 22:16:11 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Is that agya?
Message:
Or is bullying the official designation? I think you did acknowledge bullying people.

Still getting your info from the Drudge Report?

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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 22:50:52 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: You're as bad as the premies who post here, Run
Message:
Run,

Premies often back themselves into corners here. They get asked something they either can't or won't deal with squarely. And what do they do? They accuse the person asking them of 'bullying' them or some such nonsense.

Now tell me that you're not acting exactly the same. You accused me of betraying confidential communications. I asked you if that isn't just what you did with Gerry and now you won't answer. And you call that 'bullying'?

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to show some integrity and answer the question. Why do I say 'integrity'? Because unless you enjoy being a hypocrite, it's pretty damn awful, I'd say, to try to villify someone for doing something that you're fully guilty of yourself. Worse still to hide and whimper 'bully, bully' when you yourself were the one that raised this subject. You yourself were the one who originally attacked me on this point.

Now are you even capable of discussing this or you going to just cry 'bully' some more?

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 00:08:19 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Bully, Jim
Message:
No, Jim. What I have attacked you on is bullying. More specifically, that you use threats to control people.

And when serious allegations of professional misconduct have been made without any substance whatsoever, you stood by because it supported your case.

And you think I owe you a conversation on ethics.

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 11:54:47 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: You? Ethical? Get off it Run.
Message:
Some may not recall, but for a few months, after Katie and Brian stopped administering the forum, I took the job over, being what I considered to be the site ''janitor.''

As Patty and I were due to take a vacation, I needed a back up and I asked Runamok to help out.

I picked Run because for one thing, he was here a lot and I was also hoping that by giving him some responsibility he would chill out a little. I know I certainly did, posting much less and rarely saying anything controversial or provocative.

However, this tactic didn't work with Run. In fact, it back fired. Right from the beginning, he wanted more power. Wanted to institute rules and controlling guidelines that HE would determine.

Initially, I planned to keep my identity as site janitor secret, but VP said he would quit participating if this was the case so I relented and identified myself. Runamok, on the other hand, was chomping at the bit to ''come out'' as the co- webmaster. Patty and I had many a chuckle over his eagerness to be a big fish in our little pond.

I exchanged a few emails with him and had two telephone conversations. I was not really surprised to hear his tonality over the phone : flat, deadpan monotone, no affect, no liveliness. All seriousness, self importance and an overarching desire to ''block'' Jim.

This was the theme of his conversation. That and his desire to be ''recognized'' as a power to reckon with. Me the janitor, Runamok the dictator.

About the closest thing I can recall about my alleged ''asking him to block Jim'' (yeah right, I'm gonna block my friend who I respect and like because some dullard is pressuring me to do so) was saying something to the tune of ''Do you really think we need to block Jim?''

Of course I knew what his answer would be and I do admit to toying with him somewhat for my and Patty's amusement, which was probably wrong. But the guy was such a stiffy and it was so funny to hear how desparate he was to flex some muscle on the forum that I couldn't resist.

So then he gets totally ridiculous in his demands to block Jim and institute his ''guidelines'' that I finally blew up at the guy, publicly berated him on the forum, blocked him from posting and changed the forum password. A short while later, I deleted my angry post and unblocked him.

Days or maybe weeks later, Runamok turns things around and stated on Dave's forum, that in our private and privileged conversations, I urged Runamok to block Jim. Like it was my idea and I needed his permission to do so. Only the restraint of the cautious and just Runamok was holding me back.

Yeah right, and Maharaji is Lord of the Universe.

I did tell him about going to Victoria and meeting with Jim, in an attempted to disavow him of his illusions that Jim is this big shot, rich lawyer who tosses his weight around like some bloated, fat cat politician.

The truth is Jim is just an old hippie who would rather be playing music with his friends and hanging out at the swimming hole shooting the breeze. At least that's my take.

So now Runamok and some others are hammering Jim about ''divulging confidences.'' Well, I felt extremely violated by what Runamok did to me over at Dave's place when HE publicly divulged his version of our short lived relationship.

He not only violated confidences, he actually fabricated parts in an attempt to get back at me and humilate Jim. Make no mistake about it: he lied. Runamok broke my confidence, smeared my name and Jim's. He's a LIAR and an UNTRUSTWORTHY weasel.

I took it hard and as usual, over-reacted. I dumped the forum onto someone else's lap who I knew and trusted. She responded marvelously, the torched was passed and I doubt if many here even knew what had transpired.

I have no respect for Runamok, do not like him or trust him in the least. I don't have any idea what his agenda really is, but he seems like a powerless little twerp who made a desperate lunge for some sort of power. Anything to make himself feel like he's not the worm that he knows he is.

He's plainly jealous of Jim, and the respect and admiration a lot of people here have for Jim. On the other hand almost all the personal feedback Runamok gets is negative. That's understandable as he's such a small minded, cowardly little jerk.

He thinks he's clearly superior to most everyone and so much smarter and ethical. He'd really like to be some sort of guru-like leader himself. But he has nothing to offer, so he whines, snivels, and snipes at those he perceives to be more powerful than himself. Which is just about everyone here.

I hope this clears things up and will state once more: The very thing of which he accuses Jim, (violation of confidence) he himself has committed greviously and for the worst of reasons.

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 14:03:51 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: You? Ethical? Get off it Run.
Message:
No, Ger. When the suggestion to block Jim was made by you (in whatever spirit- during two separate phones calls) THEN I SUGGESTED GUIDELINES instead. Think about it.

I was advocating that Joey and Mary be let back in while Jim was screaming bloody murder about Joey night and day. Funny how it is, but guidelines would have effected Joey a little more than Jim.

You also never asked for confidentiality in your corresopndence with me. Did I speak for you when asking for confidentiality in mine?

When I did post your email, I did so without bravado (i.e. without dozens of threats to do so) to simply prove that my 'obsession' with Heller was shared by you. I cut and pasted the text without changing it.

Should I mention other aspects of our conversations that you would like to deny? Your characterizations of Heller, for example?

You guys have really reached some distant shores in your 'anti'-ness. You lie, threaten, bully. You've become what you hate. Congratulations.

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 21:46:40 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: But you miss the point here, Run
Message:
Run,

I'm afraid you're really missing the point here. Forget about who said what, your version, Gerry's version. (I know who I believe but, hey, that's just me. Maybe wishful thinking on my part. Maybe something else.) No, Run, the point is just what Gerry said: you did exactly what you were wagging your finger at me about. And to see you now try to cover for yourself -- you'd never expressly promised confidentiality, you didn't edit, you refrained from 'bravado' -- it's all pathetic, Run. Add to this, of course, your refusal to even answer me about this. Well, Run, it just makes you look pathetic, here, doesn't it?

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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 00:14:25 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: points and lines
Message:
The 'point' for me has been that threats should not be used as a back door block against people you don't like. And that's been your tactic and Ger's.

Unsubstantiated allegations about professional conduct are even uglier. How would you like it if I claimed you had leaked confidential information from one of your law clients and posted some gibberish which vaguely corresponded to a case of yours? Tell you what, I don't pull that kind of shit and you wouldn't like it one bit.

I've seen three versions of the story you allege. 1) I broke a confidence with Ger. 2) I printed an email from Ger but changed part of it. 3) I fabricated an email and printed it.

The first was yours. The second two were Ger's who now says his short term memory may be bad but he remembers the 'vibe'. If you are the 'facts' man that people seem to think you are, you ought to back off. You're witness doesn't remember what happened.

Gerry took long camping trips. If I had wanted to block you so desperately, I would have done it or deleted your posts.

Miragey sucks. Posting a corporate tree of Miragey's financial dealings would be a powerful statement that would attract the alternative press.

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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 00:34:52 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Dunce Caps and Dildos
Message:
Run,

You know what I love best about you? How you start to crumble when you're cornered, slowly drifting off into psycho cuckoo land.

I love it, but it scares me too. Hell, if could happen to guy like you it could happen to me.

And you're right about my long term memory. But in my 'be here now' life I live, that was a long time ago, So don't go badmouthing me that, please.

Oh look : here's an interesting factoid... 3) I fabricated an email and printed it. You said I said you did that.

Well excuuuuuuuuse me !!! Cite chapter and Verse on this one Mister. Otherwise I'm gonna have to ask you to step outside and meet me in HELL.....

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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 00:48:28 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: best and worst
Message:
I stand corrected. I misread your 'what the fuck' post. The point being that you claimed that whatever I posted was a total fabrication. You're still in two boats.

But I did your email on anything goes discussing Jim as a problem.

I also insisted that I did not want Jim blocked but wanted guidelines clarified instead.

At least you're mentioning love. You really have a temper, dude. Is it possible that on occasion it has been unfairly pointed in the wrong direction?

The threats part is what I find unforgivable. But I guess the FA doesn't enforce the guideline against threats anymore.

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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 01:06:35 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: But Jim IS a problem, silly.
Message:
I stand corrected. I misread your 'what the fuck' post. The point being that you claimed that whatever I posted was a total fabrication. You're still in two boats.

But I did your email on anything goes discussing Jim as a problem.

I also insisted that I did not want Jim blocked but wanted guidelines clarified instead.

At least you're mentioning love. You really have a temper, dude. Is it possible that on occasion it has been unfairly pointed in the wrong direction?

The threats part is what I find unforgivable. But I guess the FA doesn't enforce the guideline against threats anymore.

4204204204204204204204204204204204204204204204

Run,

Yes, the threats really are the worst part aren't they? And love is felt, being the best thing for all humans no matter how twisted their minds are...

Temper the steel I always say and you'll be sure to come up red each time. But for my money, I'lI take two boats over one every time, no matter how you fabricate them.

And stop doing my email. My cat is getting jealous.

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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 01:19:59 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: but Ger did threaten
Message:
Yeah Ger, we had some nice chats, too. And you got your forum covered and I never fucked with Jim's posts except to delete them when he asked for it, which is more than anybody running these things ever does.

But the threats and unsubstantiated accusations about someone's professional life is really so wrong. And all the fucks, shits, and cunts in the universe didn't make it any prettier.

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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 01:53:27 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Re: but Ger did threaten
Message:
Yeah Ger, we had some nice chats, too. And you got your forum covered and I never fucked with Jim's posts except to delete them when he asked for it, which is more than anybody running these things ever does.

Well I have to concur with your assessment of these sloths across the pond. They really know how to muck things about the place, don't they. The ingrates. They really get on my nerves sometime. Someone should teach them a lesson or two about proper management, sometime, agreed?

You however are a waste. At least you could offer to help out the lazy bastards once in a while, but did you? Then what right do people have to complain about you? At least those guys over there know how to take the piss out of a conversation like this. Queer sounding phrase, if I may say so, though.

And shit, Jim's posts. Yeah, he ALWAYS asks for it, in my opinion. For deletion, that is.

But the threats and unsubstantiated accusations about someone's professional life is really so wrong. And all the fucks, shits, and cunts in the universe didn't make it any prettier.

People need to warned off from fucking with your profession reputation, that's for sure. Your damn right, wrong. And from my er, rather limited experience (well some what less glamorous than the universe) NO ONE SHOULD expect all fuck and cunts IN THE UNIVERSE, never mind shit, thank you, any more than anyone else.

And that, my friend, is truly, NOT A PRETTY PICTURE.

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 15:11:00 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: What the fuck ???
Message:
You know what, you didn't post ANY of our e-mails. Everyone please take note of this fact!

You didn't cut and paste anything with or without alterations. You posted only your fantasies and skewered recollections of our private and presumed confidential telephone conversations.

You also never asked for confidentiality in your corresopndence with me. Did I speak for you when asking for confidentiality in mine?

Oh, this is really cheeky. I'll keep your confidences, but you are free to post mine on the internet. You've got lots of class, all of it low. Now how would you like me to 'out' you, fucker?

As for my 'characterizations' of Jim what can you say? That his Chinatown apartment was messy and he drove an old truck? That what you see on the forum is what you get in person? That he gets cranky with his girlfriend sometimes and puts his pants on one leg at at time like everyone else?

Everything I said was an attempt to instill a little empathy for the guy into your thick skull. You have no feelings for anyone.

Runamok, there is something terribly wrong with you. I urge you seek professional help quickly.

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 20:46:10 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: greetings from the dark side
Message:
Gerry, I don't know what you guys get at that watering hole of Jim's but I have to say.
I come back here after quite some time, and find him after me like a security guard for M gone mad.
And I have lost people I thought were friends. And though I am fairly sure I know why, it seems to me that
charismatic leaders are disruptive no matter who they are or what fanatical cause they stand for.
Didn't we learn anything from that fake guru?
I don't expect an answer.
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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 23:35:28 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Re: greetings from the dark side
Message:
Seriously Selene, I didn't learn much from the 'goob. Just enough to piss me off, though.

I know I've mentioned this before but a really good book (which I just finished reading) is Cults in Our Midsts
by Margaret Singer. I couldn't believe how much of what she wrote deals directly with this trip.

Another thing I found out to day is that a good friend of mine's sister was 'in the Divine Light' cult in the late seventies. She lasted about eight months before she snapped out of it. Lucky her.

See, the thing about it is you never know where you're gonna learn something. I find I learn the most when it hurts the most. Bring on the S&M what the hell.

So I know you like Runamok and stuff, but I really can't care on this one, Selene. Maybe my short term memory sucks but I remember the vibe.

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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 00:31:05 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: ********** Best of Ger **********
Message:
'Maybe my short term memory sucks but I remember the vibe.'

In other words, you realize you may not have been telling the truth about me.

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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 00:50:23 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Re: ********** Best of Ger **********
Message:
Hi Runamok

Gerry is right that I do like you.
But if I could have conducted my email to him personally I would have. I don't have his email address.
And I really don't want to be part of this battle.
I seem to be embroiled in enough between Jim and his er....
fill in the blank.
Thanks. I trust and know you will respect my wishes.

Once again folks. My litany. We were cult victims. some of us are on a mission socially and some of us just want to heal.

I think I am wanting to heal but am still drawn to the overview. The fact that M is still out there doing his thing bothers me.
But if it means I have to be trashed in the process of trying to help point out what M is doing, then count me out.
I'm not strong enough yet. And am not sure that is even a goal I should reach for. I mean if the people who have the same goal hurt me eveery time I post than what the fuck?

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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 01:36:41 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: my friend Selene
Message:
You're right. You shouldn't have to endure this (or at least it should be minimal- people have their
misunderstandings but friends draw certain lines).

I'm a little thicker skinned than some. I go through this for some who aren't. (I'm the damn savior of humanity, what can I say?) I am constantly talking to people who say they censor themselves on the forum to avoid fights. Seems a little ironic that supposedly the forum is some kind of democracy. Some people don't want to fight. I don't want to but I'm used to it, and unlike some of the ashramies, my stint as a premie turned out a street-smarter person than the one who went in.

I don't think that the rules of the forum are clear (anymore) because threats have been tolerated. Katie would use inordinate amounts of time to smooth out stuff as a webmaster, which allowed for more open flames with less house fires to show for it. But that kind of thing is very labor intensive. I'm sympathetic to the current admin in that some stuff can eat you lunch time-wise, but I am really disappointed at the some of the stuff that was allowed.

Anyway, I like you too Selene. You seem to have really snapped out of Miragey's world with a vengeance (oh, better make that gusto under the circumstances). Whatever you are doing, seems like you're doing something right.

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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 01:49:42 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Re: my friend Selene
Message:
I'm OK
I was a bit shocked at the attack I got here.
but I see now where it came from
I will post when I want to. I'm resilient; that is something. It's a lot really.

You and I may not have the same goals as to what should happen here but I see that as no reason to not like you as a person.

I hate to fuel a fire but what Cerberus said to me over 'there' tonight, about being able to be friends even if I am an ex and he isn't was good stuff.

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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 03:29:14 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Selene
Subject: Re: my friend Selene
Message:
Hi Selene. I don't have any problem with that. I wish we (exes) could and would tackle the problems we are looking down the barrel of, i.e., establish or reestablish guidelines that would humanize our behavior.

At one point, in trying to do that it made sense to block premies who insisted on doing satsang on ex-forums (or just plain spam us). My point wasn't that it was meaningless to talk to premies but that we should deal with some of our own shit instead of completely use our energy to talk to premies.

I don't think it's necessary to have a big fight with premies all the time, but I do not like being subjected to satsang. Having guidelines defined clearly is good, because there are always things that are hard to define. I don't feel the forum is an appropriate venue for religious expression either, but I hope that religious exes still feel like hanging here.

You've been here a long time and might remember almost two years of my posts as 'heavy', articulating reasons to consider Miragey a villain. Premies are generally not the enemy to me. Maybe some PAM's or people with DLM money bags, but the average premie is OK, just no satsang please.

I also positive feelings about premies who stick around because they must like something they are reading or they would just forget about us.

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 23:41:10 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: greetings from the dark side
Message:
I like a lot of people other peeple's don't like.
Maybe it is the Aquarius in me. Course we don't believe in that.
Not sure what vibe you are talking about.
But thanks, I think (?)
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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 15:22:21 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: runafuck
Subject: Oh, and by the way, asshole...
Message:
I was advocating that Joey and Mary be let back in while Jim was screaming bloody murder about Joey night and day. Funny how it is, but guidelines would have effected Joey a little more than Jim.

This is really funny, because Joey and Mary were never blocked during my stint as janitor. Catweasel and a couple of his alter ego IP's were blocked for a while. Seeing the futility of that, for most of the time, say 90%of the time, NO ONE was blocked, you jerk.

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 16:05:40 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Funny, Ger.
Message:
It was months ago that I pasted your email discussing Jim as a problem on Hell (then Anything Goes).

Funny how now you claim it was a lie but you didn't then.

Also funny how you claim I fabricated it, but also betrayed your unspoken but requisite 'confidences'. Can't have it both ways, Herr Ger.

And yes, J & M weren't blocked... but they were made as unwelcome as possible by Jim and Barney/Roger. You know, like you're trying to do to me now.

Can't say it's been fun. Enjoy your Heartmath. You deserve it.

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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 01:33:47 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: It's a wrap, then, Run
Message:
6969696969696969696969696969696969696969696969

Since you've conceded on so may points, Run I think we'll have to call it a night. Thanks for the dialog. I really like it when we can discuss things so civilly and rationally.

Don't you just hate it when Jim (that fucker) starts that bloody murder screaming . I mean god, it's like the fourth time or something. I can't tell you how it gets on my nerves, Run. It's like trying to live with an alarm clock that won't quit ringing.

It's high time we had some guidelines around here. Then these little misunderstandings wouldn't have happen. I don't know what I was thinking...

Barney/Roger, now I never knew which one was which, but I can clearly see the dupliciousness in such a tactic. But it's not like he's a plant or anything, but you never said he was.

And Runamok, Herr Ger does not do it ''both ways,'' although some of those real nazis did, I would guess on about the national average for those things, but I really feel ok about it if you do.

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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 01:44:21 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: djrayovac@aol.com
To: gerry
Subject: Look, Ger
Message:
I am really pissed about the threats and false accusations directed at another. Want to rap? Email me.
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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 13:00:28 (EST)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Now hear This !!!
Message:
bongobongobongobongobongobongobongobongobongobullyboyz

Hey Run,

Now that we are sort of some what short of a fully committed to do the right thing type of 'friendship' shall I say (?) (TM) Would it be alright if I thought of you as ''Funamok?'' Runamok is rather,well Selene said it, ''dark sidish'' and some people may not get the wrong impression of what I'm saying. Although I know you'd never do that, would you? But don't get any ideas that if I call you Funamok, you can call me ''ferry. '' Ha !!!

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 05:23:20 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Run - you're far worse then Jim
Message:
Runamok,

I've kept pretty much neutral about your thing with Jim but I'm now getting really pissed off with your posts to him. Jim's far from perfect but at leat his posts have some substance. Yours are just flaming. Either answer Jim's questions or just ignore him. You're not doing any good here attacking him constantly.

John.

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 14:48:31 (EST)
From: bb
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Run - you're far worse then Jim
Message:
Jim is far from perfect?
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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 16:17:26 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Now this'll break your heart
Message:
Also from ELK, a young lady expresses her deep joy at the ultimate 'kindness'. Within inside her own home yet! Touching, for sure:

Sue Tyson
From Shipley, Yorkshire, UK

The Wonderful Postwoman

This morning the door bell rang at 6.45 am. There stood the postwoman with a package. I took the package and thanked her.

I knew what was inside this package. I opened it and inside were four nights in November - the video that contains the highlights of Hans Jayanti. I held back, practised, then put it on and sat completely enraptured for the length of that video. Highlights of Maharaji talking, the singing, it is such a beautiful video. The kindness of having this within my own home I find so touching.

The postwoman carries that huge bag. Little does she know how much joy she brought to my house this morning.

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 14:24:47 (EST)
From: A Messenger
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, the pleasure of your company is requested
Message:
...over in Hell:)
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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 12:44:04 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Now this'll break your heart
Message:
I can't help myself, (yes it's me).... Jim, THIS is a winner. 'The kindness of having this within my own home I find so touching.' Actually should read: The kindness that premies show M by buying this tripe, fawning over it's resounding lack of content and even bringing it into their very own homes is beyond all reason!
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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 06:19:25 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: It's a pity...
Message:
Hi Jim,

It would have read better if she could have got a sick puppy in there somewhere, and maybe a crippled child who ended up with a smile on Christmas day.

Anth the Where'sthekleenex?

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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 21:33:04 (EST)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: And they say its not a CULT???? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 03:43:20 (EST)
From: O
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Re: And they say its not a CULT???? (nt)
Message:
Cults

CULTURE is part CULT
Ever hear Blue Oyster Cult
Cult of the Dead Cow is on a rampage
Could it be true
Sports has become a cult
What does it mean to be American are nations cults
TVs are everywhere
Who runs this planet anyways?

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 08:12:42 (EST)
From: Cheryl
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Re: And they say its not a CULT???? (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 21:31:06 (EST)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: That is perfectly revolting (ntI
Message:
I remember thinking this kind
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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 16:09:06 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Premie porn
Message:
This, from ELK. Tell us, Hilda, what would you REALLY like to do with the greasy Hamster if, say, you could maybe get together with him for a few drinks or something:

Hilda Rochas
Barquisimeto, Venezuela

A good-bye I'll never forget

Your hand moved slowly, easily, allowing itself to be loved. It was like something unseen, but, how my sense of you awoke in that moment! How you projected your image and your freedom that morning! My distant wings came to you, because I was watching you from afar, and then I was overwhelmed by the comfort of your presence. Behind you, I wanted to follow your movements. But then I looked at you again and my quiet and timid yet anxious hands moved in a circle to say: 'See you soon'. Then your hands, also in a circular motion, moved through the wind and picked abundant bouquets - roses, blue lilies, which, to my surprise, were for me, and as you turned toward me to give them to me, I felt as though the whole ocean were mine. And in this scene, which was like a goodbye, you looked at me, smiling, and said: 'There's more...'

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 06:28:05 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Premie porn continued.
Message:
Hi Jim,

I thought I'd finish this little tale off.

'...And your hand moved again. The roses and lilies drifted to the waves, where they glistened, like devotees' tears. My heart became still. The hand enclosed me. That grip of pure love tightened around my heart and I was carried, gently beneath the waves. I held my breath. I was in His hands.

My lungs began to hurt. I needed air. I was drowing. My life flashed before me. The years in the ashram. The thousands of hours of brainwashing. The money. Everything became clear. I was in a cult. I'd been brainwashed. I was dying. The guru wasn't perfect after all. Knowledge wasn't God. My lungs were bursting. I kicked for the surface. Screw the guru. I wanted life.

My head broke above the waves and I breathed deep.

Thank god I was free again.

Anth the Wet.

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 12:49:04 (EST)
From: Mike
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: BWAH, HA HA HA HA
Message:
Gawd Anth..... THAT was funny! Thanks for the great laugh! :-)
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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 23:44:29 (EST)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Re: BWAH, HA HA HA HA
Message:
Dear Mike,
I was just thinking of you this morning, wondering how you are, thinking about the few good email exchanges we've had. Hope you are well and happy. MERRY CHRISTMAS! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 21:20:52 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Re: BWAH, HA HA HA HA
Message:
Hi Mike
I'd recognize that laugh anywhere. Hope things went OK this summer.
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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 17:34:15 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Mike
Subject: Mikey likes it!
Message:
I saw your other post where you said 'it's me', but I didn't to get my hopes up.

The BWAH, HA HA HA HA makes it pretty clear.

Good to see you!

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 14:41:51 (EST)
From: The Artist formerly known as Mickey the P
Email: mgdbach@hotmail.com
To: Mike
Subject: ĦHey Mike!
Message:
Hey Mike, good to see your laugh back on the Forum. Please e-mail me as I changed browsers and lost your address in the process.
Da Faddah
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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 11:47:20 (EST)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Premie porn continued.
Message:
Dear Anth:

I was so hoping to hear more about 'distant wings' coming. Please feel free to wax poetic about said wings (distant or not)...perhaps, an excerpt from your upcoming Distant Wings Diary?

M

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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 04:50:06 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: Que?.
Message:
Hi Monmot,

Forgive my sloth this morning. I'm well into the party season and don't really get going until sundown. I'm not sure what the 'distant wings' are.

When I find out, I'm sure I'll be happy to wax poetic- or if it's the diary- diauretic (the one where you have to keep going for a pee).

Take care and have a cool yule,

Anth the flightless.

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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 09:51:59 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Monmot
Subject: I found the wings Monmot.
Message:
Hi again,

I've had some lunch, woken up and found the 'distant wings'.

Do you think it's something to do with hang gliders?

Anth the featherless

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Date: Wed, Dec 22, 1999 at 01:22:24 (EST)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: I found the wings Monmot.
Message:
I thought it was female protection with wings...

Liz

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Date: Tues, Dec 21, 1999 at 20:44:52 (EST)
From: Monmot
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: I found the wings Monmot.
Message:
Let's hope it's hang gliding (over the abyss, of course). If not, then I sincerely hope her distant wings are attached to her body. Otherwise, we're talking a steep dive which, I have to say, is what that 'expression' sounded like.

Have a cool yule too.

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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 16:56:59 (EST)
From: Cynthia
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: That Used to be Me
Message:
Hi Jim,

The ELK posts were reminiscent of myself. That's gopie talk. Many female premies, especially ashram premies felt amorous toward m. For me it was from reading all those Krishna gopie stories. There was one in particular which I still have a copy of. It is love poetry between Rada and Krishna very sexual. When I was at Deca, at the end of the day, the 'girls' would sit around and read passages from that book of poems and literally swoon. I remember once one of the guys (actually I think it was David Coyne) walked by and we all turned beet red and he (kiddingly) demanded to see what we were reading and we refused.

Back in the 70's, I wrote incredible love/devotional poems to m. I kept a daily journal in which I would write devotional letters begging to be near him. I literally wrote to him every day (real mail). That was when Dot Proctor and another premie were responding on his behalf and I still have all the letters. Then when I actually got called to be around him, my whole belief system was confirmed. Very strange how cults work, eh? That's why it was so easy for m and r to screw around the young women. Many were willing and waiting. Then there's an incestous aspect to it because 'you are my mother and you are my father....' Mind Fuck!!

I actually thought he gave a rat's ass about me. You know, that's a difficult betrayal to overcome. I feel sorry for those women. Not surprised at their behavior...I bet they're old timers, too, still hanging onto that gopie type love that is really hard to shake.

All those posts are is plain, old fashioned, hindi/cult-like gopie talk.

Be well,
Cynthia

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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 15:28:46 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Sorry, can't resist -- oh Runamok??
Message:
If anyone's missed the show over on AG, it's pretty funny. Anyway, in one of Run's posts he says:

The issue isn't Jim Heller and it never will be. The issue is how people treat each other. I don't want to see people in authority use that authority to abuse others. Miragey still takes the cake at that. Jim needs a few years practice if he is serious about competing with Miragey.

Anyway, that got me thinking. What if Run's right? Here I'm spouting my mouth off about how mean, dark and nasty Maharaji is and, lo and behold, I'm just following in his footsteps!

Okay, I don't want to do that so, starting now, I hereby relinquish my authority on all of you. Joe, John, Nigel, Marianne, Susan.... why, even Gerry. You're all free to go. That's right, you heard me. I'm stepping down. I don't want your money anymore and I don't even watn you worshipping me. No, honestly, I mean this. Nigel, you can resume your studies and Susan, you can keep your child. Children? Okay, childrne, then. Whatever.

Thanks, Run, for pointing out my profound hypocrisy. Now, if you'd only be so kind as to answer my question of the past few days ....

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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 15:34:31 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: What about me?
Message:
Does this mean I can stop being your...?
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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 15:37:43 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Okay, you can go too (but, a warning ....)
Message:
Yes Barney,

You're free too. (You really want to talk about this here?) But I'm warning you, don't say I never told you it's a cold, lonely world out there. I'm not saying I'm going to be here either when the rains start a-falling. But yes, true to my word, I will no longer exert my authority over you. (You'll be SOOOOry!)

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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 15:50:24 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Okay, you can go too (but, a warning ....)
Message:
No, we shouldn't talk about this here. But before we go over there could you get me a cup of coffee?
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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 15:54:00 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: You asked me WHAT????
Message:
Now how can I give up my authority when jerks like you are going to ask me to do stuff? Forget it. I ain't giving up nothing. Nigel, quit school.
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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 16:09:12 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: You gurus are all the same
Message:
Yeah, you say you don't need us and then as soon as we're walking out the door you go, 'Wait a minute, you can't leave me!' And then you run after us, drag us back and proceed to beat us.

All I asked for was a cup of coffee.

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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 16:13:05 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: It's not what you said but how you said it
Message:
I guess what it comes down to is respect. You say you want to leave. Fine then. Leave. Do I care? I already said I don't want to be no authority figure anymore. But then what do you do? You ask me for something! See?
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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 16:21:33 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: And after all these years...
Message:
of me giving and giving, waiting for your phone call that never comes, sending you hand lettered greeting cards with my poetry, beautiful gifts I find on the seashore and along mountain streams. Don't forget the money. It may not be much, but it's all that I have. And I've been living on the streets of Santa Monica for years. I ride the bus to Trancas Market and wait all day hoping to see you.

I ask for one small thing just once and there you go - flying off the handle.

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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 16:32:14 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Yes, let's talk about all those years
Message:
First of all, do you think I ever wanted all those musty hand-penned notes and cards. Why in the world would I want that shit? You think it's fun for me to read the same thing over and over and over again? And where am I supposed to put all this stuff anyway?

No, you sent those cards and letters for yourself. It's got nothing to do with me and I'm not going to let you guilt me just because you chose to do your little thing with this here devotional thingamijigger. Hey, man, that's your trip, not mine. You could have walked any time you wanted. The door's over there. No one ever put a gun to your head (well, actually, I did once but that was just when we were all playing around at the res and you know, don't you, that I'd probably never ever shoot you?)

So cut the crap with this 'I-gave-you-everything' trip. Do you ever stand back and think about how goddammed whiny that sounds? Really, man, don't you have any pride or anything? And what about me, huh? Think about me for a change. Do you know how many people I'd have to carry if I took responsiblity for all the people who, like you, chose of their own free will to learn a few things about love, devotion and surrender?

You're not the only one, bud! That's what I've been trying to tell you. You're not the only one. So look. You've got some attitude? Well, lose it! (And I don't mean 'loose it'. I know perfectly well how to spell. I mean 'lose it!')

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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 17:05:49 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I only did what I was told to do
Message:
But, Jimaharaji, I only did what I was told to do.

I dropped out of college.

I spent all my time and money travelling to see you six to ten times a year. I couldn't very well hold much of a steady job under those circumstances. Nor could I develop much of a career. And you told me not to bother with a career or saving enough money for retirement because you said that you would take care of me and that all I would ever need was you.

I divorced my wife and moved into the ashram like I they told, ok, suggested, us to do.

I became ill from the fumes at DECA and was told to leave the ashram so that I would not be a burden to you. I suppose that it was a lila that my health insurance premiums were never paid and some of your pals got a fat cat retirement out of that fiasco.

I sold And It Is Divine knocking on doors in bad neighborhoods on the weekends if I didn't have to work at my job washing dishes or in the laundry room a senior's nursing home. I bought and sold college textbooks and did ok until they put more and more premies in my territory and we all started undercutting each other just to have something to give to you.

I had to pay full fare for plane tickets to see you because you didn't have the decency to give more than a week of advance notice.

I would arrive early to programs to do service. And when I snatched a piece of food when I was doing food service I was called a thief.

I'd slave for days building you a beautiful stage and because I didn't have money to pay for a ticket to the event I had to beg outside the gate.

I shuttled around your Mahatma Ji's to their secret liasons. I did what I was told and I kept my mouth shut no matter how sick and wrong it looked and felt to me.

I had my sick baby in a stroller and needed to get inside the 'venue' to change her diapers. It was pouring rain and your people would not let me in no matter what.

I gave you my trust fund and you bought that Maseratti to help your self-esteem problems after the failed Millenium.

Instead of 'being there' when my father died I was there with you in Kissimmee as you bitched us out and told us that we were not worthy of you.

All around me my brothers and sisters were going insane because they could not reconcile what you were telling us and the resultant confusion. And all that time you were smoking, drinking, taking drugs, and screwing around.

And now you tell me that I was wrong. I made the mistake. I didn't understand. You never said any of that and now you want to give it all up and lounge on your yacht that is moored and waiting for you in the South Pacific. A couple of women and the very best cognac. And a staff that keeps their mouths shut.

You gurus are all alike. Me, me, me. I, me, mine.

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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 17:37:52 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Yeah, but you had that little grain of salt under your tongue, now didn't you??
Message:
Barney,

I almost made this 'nt' but ran out of room. Too bad for you becaause now I'm gonna tell you what I really think of you. Listen, I'm a successful man. I've got a nice house, kids, cars. I live in a very exclusive part of what may be the most important city on earth. I know some very important people.

And then there are you guys. Come on, Barney, I'm not exactly impressed, you know? Get my drift? I mean, what've you got? What have you managed to accumulate in life? Look at me, I've got it all. And you?

So you ask me about respect. Well, I've got to be honest, Barney, m' boy. Respect has to be earned. So get that grain of salt out of your mouth, get back and we'll see you at the next Satellite Video Event.

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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 17:49:28 (EST)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Ok, ok, ok! I surrender
Message:
Damn! You gurus got everything, including all the right comebacks. Yes, yes, yes, I had a grain of salt hidden in my mouth.

Mahajimji, if it's all right with you for this time I'd like not to have to go in and out of meditative bliss so much and I was wondering if I could get just a little lobotomy. I don't think that it would hamper my quest for success in this world since it's pretty much too late for that anyway. I just want to be able to serve you all the more better. Besides, I've picked up some many impure thoughts hanging out in Hell and knowing what I now know about your buddy Jagdeo has given me a case of the creeps.

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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 16:56:30 (EST)
From: Lurk
Email: None
To: All
Subject: The chihuahua -gracious as ever
Message:
Has anyone else noticed that quite a few regular posters seem to be gone?
Did any of you notice how Jimbo has chased other ex's over to Hell? Many of these people want nothing to do with this forum but Jim chases them there to continue his assault on them. If something is not done, I suspect the fallout will continue.
I am no longer a premie but the recent insanity here and carried to Hell could allow an active cult member to put together a rotting vegetable case.
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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 10:29:14 (EST)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Lurk
Subject: Jim and the Disappearing Posters
Message:
Hi Lurk,

The disappearing posters are away doing their Christmas shopping, visiting old friends and relatives, pursuing hobbies and having a drink.

They'll be back. They always are. There's too much sparkling wit and repartee bouncing around here to keep them away.

You shouldn't be intimidated by Jimbo's sprightly banter. As has been pointed out several times on the forum, he's a really lovable, cuddly, philanthropic, caring and sharing type musical-lawyer. He loves puppies and little children- especially if they're slightly injured. (If this is the case he takes them home and cures them.)

The active cult members put together cases of rotting vegetables all the time. Statistics are on our side Lurk. In the UK we're winning about 37,000 to 2,962. And out of the 37,000 Ex-premies in the country, surveys at the Latvian Club show that at least 18,751 of these are attributable to Jim's gentle powers of persuasion and love of puppies.

Anth the File on a Computer Somewhere in America.

(Neti, Neti, Neti.)

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 02:44:39 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Lurk
Subject: Welcome
Message:
Lurk,

I know that I'm not doing a very good job in the role of Welcome Wagon mule skinner, but...

Tell us more about yourself, please.

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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 18:15:47 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Lurk
Subject: Business as usual
Message:
Lurk,

This forum has always had quiet times since I started reading here. I've read the threads regarding Katie leaving and the only exes contributing are Katie, Jim, Robyn, Selene and myself. Then premies Catweasel, Cerberus and Orlando chip in with their support. There's also someone called Harry who hasn't stated his position on Maharaji. Anyway, I seriously distrust Cat and Cerb's motives. By giving such gushing support to Katie, they are helping to ferment division. However, this place seems just like normal - good solid info on the cult, and the usual bickering between Jim and Runamok.

John.

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Date: Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 04:57:33 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Feline stoat Lover
Subject: Re: A Prick is a Prick is a Prick
Message:
Yes - why do you think you can talk crap to me anonymously?

John.

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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 20:29:55 (EST)
From: Selene
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: It's not a competition
Message:
Can't bring myself to do an 'nt'

So, if you must know there were others posting. But who cares?

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Date: Sun, Dec 19, 1999 at 18:03:59 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Lurk
Subject: Fuck off with the pr threats, bud
Message:
Listen dude,

If some premies want to cling tight to the cult because exes argue and split along various lines as to how to deal with Maharaji and premies, let them. I doubt it works that way for anyone, really, in any event.

As for my 'chasing' anyone over to Hell. That's your stupid read of things. I haven't chased anyone anywhere. There's interperosnal history here that you're not aware of, background stories, I guess you could say. This all started when I tried to warn Mary off this page. That was a completely justified and necessary action and, if you were the least bit polite with me I might bother explaining what I'm talking about. Anyway, Runamok, who has his own little weird agenda, believe me, siezed on the moment to try to slag me a bit. Why? Because he likes that! Why? Hell, fella, I don't know. Why not ask him?

Anyway, another conversation starts up on AG within which Katie says some typical Katie stuff. You know, everyone's okay. Cat's okay. Gotta treat everyone with respect -- kind of like she does. Well, here's where you really wouldn't know what was going on if you've recently joined us. Catweasel spend months posting here as nothing but a flame engine. A nasty, ugly one at that. Katie's post was ridiculous in the circumstances, in my opinion, and I said so. So what happens? Well Katie 'gets hurt' and all her closest supporters rally to her defense. That includes, let me see now, Cerebus, Orlando, Wm, Harry, Selene and Robyn (who'd also psoted some ditzy little sweet nothing to Cat).

It comes down to this. Anyone can say anything here but the general tenor of this site is always going to be, by its very nature, strongly, angrily, anti-Maharaji. And it's always going to be a hot spot for premies who post their own nonsense such as you can read by clicking on anything CD, Dog or you name it posts. It's always the same, it's always drivel.

People who want 'nice' will never enjoy this forum because this forum allows premies to post here. That's the answer right there. You want something else start your own ex-only place or go to the one that already exists. Anyone can but few do because, truth be told, it's kind of fun, in a nauseating way of course, popping premie thought balloons. Now either you get it or you don't. Sounds liek you don't and never will. So why don't you go put your own little 'rotten vegetable case' together and post something nice on ELK for a change. You want nice? There it is.

Otherwise, get real.

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