Forum IV: The Ex-Premie Forum
Archive: 9
From: Thurs, Oct 21, 1999 To: Thurs, Nov 04, 1999 Page: 2 Of: 5


Roger eDrek -:- Lyric fragment to Rock Me Maharaji -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 04:26:59 (EST)
__ Abi -:- Re: Lyric fragment to Rock Me Maharaji -:- Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 02:00:37 (EST)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- Re: Lyric fragment to Rock Me Maharaji -:- Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 03:11:21 (EST)
__ __ __ Abi -:- Re: Lyric fragment to Rock Me Maharaji -:- Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 03:28:53 (EST)
__ Cynthia G. -:- Re: Lyric fragment to Rock Me Maharaji -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 07:58:19 (EST)
__ __ Roger eDrek -:- Thanks! Here we go! Rock'n Roll! -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 16:00:01 (EST)
__ __ __ Abi -:- Re: Thanks! Here we go! Rock'n Roll! -:- Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 02:08:24 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- Sure! If mom (Mistress Grammar) and dad (Catweasel) say it's ok. -:- Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 03:04:35 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Mistress Grammar -:- You've been a very good boy today, Roger -:- Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 12:35:47 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- But, mummy! -:- Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 13:43:34 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Abi -:- Re: Sure! If mom (Mistress Grammar) and dad (Catweasel) say it's ok. -:- Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 03:25:09 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- The day the music died -:- Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 15:25:33 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Marilyn Manson -:- Re: Sure! If mom (Mistress Grammar) and dad (Catweasel) say it's ok. -:- Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 03:56:19 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Re: Lyric fragment to Rock Me Maharaji -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 08:21:39 (EST)
__ __ Cynthia G. -:- P.S..... -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 08:09:43 (EST)

Jim -:- A hard choice -:- Mon, Nov 01, 1999 at 23:38:36 (EST)
__ fuck him -:- Let god fight his own battles-nt -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 14:42:33 (EST)
__ Mel Bourne -:- A hard choice - really? -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 08:24:14 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- That's pretty dumb -- what a surprise coming from you of all people, Mel -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 11:00:28 (EST)
__ __ __ Mel Bourne -:- Repression .....Jim, a question -:- Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 05:36:42 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Don't be an idiot -:- Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 11:23:43 (EST)
__ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Cultural hypnosis! -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 21:28:34 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- Bullshit New Age Word Games -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 22:25:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Deputy Dog -:- Re: New Age Word Games -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 22:38:17 (EST)
__ __ JHB -:- Mel - you got it wrong -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 08:37:02 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim -:- I agree entirely, JHB (nt) -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 11:01:46 (EST)
__ GM -:- Re: A hard choice -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 04:36:05 (EST)
__ __ Jim -:- You're on your own with that one, GM -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 10:54:23 (EST)
__ Runamok -:- Re: A hard choice -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 00:58:09 (EST)
__ __ nigel -:- I would never burn books, either, but... -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 20:09:44 (EST)
__ __ __ Runamok -:- Re: I would never burn books, either, but... -:- Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 02:17:32 (EST)
__ __ Way -:- To: GM regarding Falun Gong -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 14:05:51 (EST)
__ __ __ Jerry -:- Koresh -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 21:10:07 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Jim -:- False dichotomy, Jer -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 22:33:16 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Re: False dichotomy, Jer -:- Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 11:11:31 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Koresh and EP -:- Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 08:12:56 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Re: Koresh and EP -:- Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 19:39:07 (EST)
__ __ __ GM -:- Re: To: GM regarding Falun Gong -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 17:33:22 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Way -:- Re: To: GM regarding Falun Gong -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 18:15:24 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ GM -:- Re: To: GM regarding Falun Gong -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 18:36:43 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- take the mickey -:- Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 16:35:46 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Harry -:- Ps to Way -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 19:47:21 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Re: Ps to Way -:- Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 10:38:04 (EST)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ GM -:- Gidday Way -:- Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 17:09:11 (EST)

honesty -:- exposing m's hypocrisy -:- Mon, Nov 01, 1999 at 23:11:43 (EST)
__ JW -:- Re: exposing m's hypocrisy -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 14:29:44 (EST)
__ JHB -:- Re: exposing m's hypocrisy -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 04:00:40 (EST)
__ __ Nigel -:- Hey, did I miss something? -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 10:52:26 (EST)

Jim -:- Fundamental Questions for Rob -:- Mon, Nov 01, 1999 at 21:47:58 (EST)
__ Roger eDrek -:- Could Nil=URL=Rob? -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 05:13:36 (EST)
__ __ JW -:- URL = Nil but not Rob -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 11:47:44 (EST)
__ __ Jethro -:- Re: Could Nil=URL=Rob? -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 10:36:33 (EST)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: Could Nil=URL=Rob? -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 07:54:18 (EST)
__ __ __ Jim -:- It matters for THEM (and who cares what they know about you?) -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 11:19:13 (EST)
__ __ __ __ Roger eDrek -:- I remember Chairman Mao -:- Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 13:50:49 (EST)

Jim -:- Fundamental Question for Url -:- Mon, Nov 01, 1999 at 21:44:52 (EST)

Forum Administrator -:- Forum Crash -:- Mon, Nov 01, 1999 at 16:12:21 (EST)

Discovery Channel -:- Getting to know the IRS-CID -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 21:08:07 (EDT)
__ Discovery Channel -:- Re: Getting to know the IRS-CID #2 -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 21:22:01 (EDT)
__ __ Discovery Channel -:- Re: Getting to know the IRS-CID #3 -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 21:30:40 (EDT)

JW -:- Therapists Familiar With Cults -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 19:43:06 (EDT)
__ URL -:- JW, you should go to this 'cause you could use the help -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 21:24:45 (EDT)

Susan -:- :( I miss forum three :( -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 11:28:30 (EDT)
__ bb -:- Re: :( I miss forum three :( -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 16:07:19 (EDT)

Grace -:- Famous Premies -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 09:44:44 (EDT)
__ Dr Helen Caldicott -:- Re: Famous Premies -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 09:47:07 (EDT)
__ __ frankace -:- Re: Famous Premies -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 09:55:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ Oliver North -:- Re: Famous Premies -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 16:42:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ Cynthia G. -:- Re: Famous Premies -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 10:37:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ gerry -:- Rumors, rumors, rumors -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 10:53:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Rumors, rumors, rumors -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 12:10:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Cynthia G. -:- Re: Rumors, rumors, rumors -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 11:32:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Earthling -:- Re: Rumors, rumors, rumors -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 15:06:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Re: Rumors, rumors, rumors -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 11:54:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Re: Rumors, rumors, rumors -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 11:44:07 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Cynthia G. -:- Re: Dalai Lama -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 12:28:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ bb -:- Re: Dalai Lama -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 16:12:16 (EDT)

kmdarling -:- Was anyone at Glastonbury in 71? -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 09:35:13 (EDT)
__ Joan Baez -:- Were you at Woodstock in '69? -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 19:26:57 (EDT)
__ __ Joe Hill -:- Joan, Joan, Joan, It Was Me You Saw (nt) -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 19:37:28 (EDT)
__ __ David Crosby -:- Were you at Watkins Glen in '70? -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 19:33:14 (EDT)
__ syd -:- Re: Was anyone at Glastonbury in 71? -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 16:42:03 (EDT)
__ JHB -:- Re: Was anyone at Glastonbury in 71? -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 10:17:42 (EDT)
__ __ JW -:- Oh Please -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 19:23:59 (EDT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: Was anyone at Glastonbury in 71? -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 12:16:03 (EDT)

Runamok -:- Hack Attack -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 02:59:59 (EDT)

Joey -:- oooh....I'm so scared!! -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 01:23:15 (EDT)
__ LRH -:- You should be -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 20:50:56 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave (retired) -:- You won't believe this but -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 04:06:57 (EDT)
__ __ Nigel -:- Which ad, Sir D? -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 10:58:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: Which ad, Sir D? -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 11:54:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Katie -:- Re: Which ad, Sir D? -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 11:58:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ biff -:- Re: Which ad, Sir D? -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 19:28:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Charlie -:- Re: Which ad, Sir D? -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 14:20:18 (EDT)

Joey -:- cult net deception -:- Mon, Oct 25, 1999 at 22:14:24 (EDT)

Joey -:- Moonies, guns, and Private Eyes! -:- Mon, Oct 25, 1999 at 19:52:31 (EDT)

JW -:- Lying On Dettmers Resume -:- Mon, Oct 25, 1999 at 19:44:55 (EDT)
__ URL -:- Re: Lying On Dettmers Resume -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 20:21:39 (EDT)
__ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Lying On Dettmers Resume -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 21:23:11 (EDT)
__ Cynthia G. -:- Re: IRS -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 11:43:17 (EDT)
__ bb -:- Re: Lying On Dettmers Resume -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 08:45:55 (EDT)
__ __ kmdarling -:- Re: Lying On Dettmers Resume -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 17:24:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ JW -:- Is He An Ex -- Or Is He Just Protective? -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 19:00:07 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Joey -:- Re: Is He An Ex -- Or Is He Just Protective? -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 20:32:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Re: Is He An Ex -- Or Is He Just Protective? -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 20:51:24 (EDT)
__ Ben Lurking -:- maybe old url is right -:- Mon, Oct 25, 1999 at 22:35:37 (EDT)
__ __ Way -:- Re: IRS -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 10:47:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: IRS - Any lawers? -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 18:06:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ JW -:- Re: IRS - Any lawers? -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 19:18:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ Know It All -:- Re: IRS -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 14:00:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ gerry -:- Way, what's the scoop? -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 11:06:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Way -:- Re: Way, what's the scoop? -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 11:36:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Well I heard she fucks donkeys... -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 12:12:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Re: Well I heard she fucks donkeys... -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 12:35:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- My little advaita adventure -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 13:09:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Re: My little advaita adventure -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 13:24:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Re: My little advaita adventure -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 13:29:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Way -:- Re: My little advaita adventure -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 14:57:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Re: My little advaita adventure -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 20:42:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gerry -:- Gangaji 'Syncophants' -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 12:25:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ kmdarling -:- Re: Gangaji 'Syncophants' -:- Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 17:18:53 (EDT)


Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 04:26:59 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Lyric fragment to Rock Me Maharaji
Message:
Ok, I need some help here because I don't know all the lyrics to this Smash Hit, Rock Me, Maharaji.

Anyway, I've come up with:

Neuter me, Maharaji

And tell me it's all right

It's all right...

Try singing it in the normal premie way and also try singing it ala David Bowie or any of your other favorite artists.

Ok, I need some help here because I don't know all the lyrics to this Smash Hit, Rock Me, Maharaji.

Anyway, I've come up with:

Neuter me, Maharaji

And tell me it's all right

It's all right...

Of course, you all get the meaning, but I would like to elaborate for my own benefit.

While at times I may consider and believe that being involved in the benign activities of the cult (satsang, service, and meditation) might have saved me from a horrible fate that wild young people might get into. However, one must consider that most young people usually grow out of such wild phases and eventually get on track.

For me, being young was a period of not knowing what I wanted to do with my life and being very naive and idealistic. I needn't mention that in the early 1970's that I was also still very much influenced by the hippie thing of the sixties or whenever that really happened. Anyway, the point is that I was young and because I didn't have a clue as to what to do with my life there was an internal dissonance within me.

Not really knowing much about psychology I'm winging it when I say that feelings of being internally uncomfortable might be motivators to affect change. In this case such a change might be going to school, learning a trade, attempting to get and hold a meaningful job. Such activities might lead to some progress and alleviate the internal dissonance. Of course, being a premie, I know the standard lines that much that we do in this life ends in failure or bitter disappointment. Oh, well.

So, somehow we find ourselves involved in some far out Indian cult. We sit through endless hours of listening to complete and total idiots droning on and making the most extreme and impossible claims. Yet, we stay glued to our seats because we've been promised a big brass ring - enlightenment, liberation, bliss, etc. To leave would be the end of everything good.

So, we sit. And we sit and we listen. It's bad stuff, we know. Again, there is nothing we can do except surrender. We surrender our rational and logical thought process to accept the imaginary, the pie in the sky promise of Maharaji. And what is that promise in its most simplest term? Yes, that everything is all right. That you are all right. Not a whatever gets you through the night, but eternally.

And it soon becomes that it doesn't matter that you have to quit your job every month or two to traipse off to see Maharaji in some corner of your country or half way across the globe. Nothing matters except worshipping Maharaji. Your life has just gone down the tubes and you don't care because you're a goddamn darshan junkie waiting around for your next fix. And it doesn't really matter that the dope is cut and diluted because all of your friends from your peer group are there to help hype it along. You need it so desperately because your life is a mess. The people around you are all as insane as you are, yet you cannot even begin to say what it is that is bothering you because you will then be cast out with nowhere to go.

And on a nightly basis the message is the same - it's all riiiiigggghhhhhtttt.

But, you know that it isn't, but in that magic moment when you let go of your doubts and surrender to Maharaji's Weird World of Knowledge it becomes momentarily all right - that truth, that consciousness, and that bliss. Sure, it is. Yup, just like when you stop banging your head against the wall. Oh, that magic feeling, nowhere to go.

Your life has been co-opted, diverted, sidetracked. You are a slave to the master. You are enriching him as your own life spins in circles headed down the drain. The Sat Guru has neutered you and there is nowhere to go. Get a career, get married, have kids, take a vacation, plan for your retirement. NO, don't do that you stupid idiot, he says. And again, you surrender because of the carrot on that stick that he is holding out. Your life has stalled. Time passes you get older and nothing really seems to be happening.

Ok, reality check. I'm sure that many of the good premies who somehow managed to have some kind of life outside of Maharaji are saying that I'm just a whining loser and I should be grateful to Maharaji for whatever he gave me, his prashad or that he allowed me to breathe the air that he might have breathed or might breathe with his next breath. Sure, some premies managed not to take Maharaji too seriously and the managed to look out for themselves and build a little niche in the world. And that's great, congratulations, indeed. But, for me and I suspect for some other that such didn't happen. We were nipped in the bud. We did not receive the guidance, the reinforcement that would have really helped us get on with our lives and successfully grow up. I contend that by following Maharaji my youthful irresponsibility was fostered. Even though I did manage to return to school and get a college degree, I was ten years behind my peers. I had lost at least ten years. It's not like I'm going to live forever and ten years is nothing. We're talking ten years of what could be the most important years of your life - wasted, given to Maharaji so that he can have gold toilet fixtures and a Rolex for everyday of the year. Help him spread his knowledge. Give me a break! If he wasn't such a greedy pig he could have spread his goddamn Knowledge ten times around the world by now.

Aw, fuck it! Nothing really matters, does it? After all, we're just excreta machines.

And, yes little Susie, it is a kinder and gentler World of Knowledge today. The past is dead, rewritten, sandblasted and painted over. It is all right, but just don't scratch at it too much.

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Date: Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 02:00:37 (EST)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: Lyric fragment to Rock Me Maharaji
Message:
I think your posts are brilliant, moving,and very funny. Don't feel so bad about having spent so long hanging with the Hamster. You got out. Your house of Drek is one of the funnies things I've read for ages. You survived!

What did you major in? Do you live in Oz? I'd like to meet you.

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Date: Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 03:11:21 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Re: Lyric fragment to Rock Me Maharaji
Message:
Oh, gee. I can't really answer those questions on the advice of my security people. One of my lawyers counsels me otherwise, but he lives on an island in a country where guns are virtually prohibited.

You can email me at drek@oz.net and I will probably answer your questions depending on my current level of paranoia.

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Date: Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 03:28:53 (EST)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: Lyric fragment to Rock Me Maharaji
Message:
Speak to you soon.
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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 07:58:19 (EST)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: Lyric fragment to Rock Me Maharaji
Message:
Hi Roger,

I dug deep into my dusty pile of boxes for this, was surprised I still had a Blue Aquarius tape, but I believe in keeping evidence: Here goes: (I transcribed it from the tape), It was no trouble at all, I type 100 wpm.

Everything was dark at first

Things had gone from bad to worse

God of all the Universe

Came down to show the way

I was just a little child

Maya made my mind run wild

Then Guru Maharaj Ji smiled

And nighttime turned to day

I will give you peace he said

And at his feet I lay my head

So rock me Maharaj and roll me tonight

Rock me Maharaj Ji and say it's all ri..........ght

It's all ri.......ght.

Give him all your cares and fears

Give him all your worldly tears

Everyone who comes and hears

Receives the Holy Name

Creatures of the earth or sky

All the things that swim and fly

There's no need to reason why

Within his holy name.

Living in Satguru's world

I am yours my only lord...

So rock me Maharaji

and roll me tonight

Rock me Maharaji

and say it's all ri......ght

It's all ri.........ght.

Turn the music high

Fill me full of light

With my second birth

I have second sight

(Some indian words I couldn't make out on tape)

In Maharaj Ji's love.

Rock me....verse again.

.

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 16:00:01 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Thanks! Here we go! Rock'n Roll!
Message:
Everything was fun at first

Things then went to hell and worse

Blob of all the Universe

Came down to take my life

I was just his little toy

Rawat took away my joy

Then He began to lie

And so quickly lost my way

I will sell you peace he said

And at his feet I would be bled

So neuter me Maharaj and roll me a joint

Sock me Maharaj Ji and say it's your right

You're so ri.......ght.

Give him all your hopes and dreams

Give him all your worldly schemes

Everyone who leaves in tears

Receives his holy blame

Pictures of him warts and all

Premies don't you whine or cry

There's so many reasons why

your lord is so lame

Living with Satguru's curse

I am yours my phony lord...

So beat me Maharaji

and I'll roll your joints

Rape me Maharaji

and say it's my fault

It's all li....es.

Turned the TV off

Crap from a satellite

With this remote control

I've regained my life

Polywhompus Param Sant Ji Maharaj is love...

In Maharaj Ji's love.

So fuck you Maharaji

and roll your own joints

Stick it to Maharaji

and say you're all right

It's your li........fe.

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Date: Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 02:08:24 (EST)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: Thanks! Here we go! Rock'n Roll!
Message:
You are brilliant! Will you marry me?
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Date: Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 03:04:35 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: Sure! If mom (Mistress Grammar) and dad (Catweasel) say it's ok.
Message:
Thanks, Abi. I've been waiting for some feedback. I think that I spent a good two hours on it. There's a couple of weak spots. With just a little bending and stretching the whole thing will sing close to true.

I pretty much lost it and laughed for about five minutes when I came up with the Crap from a satellite in the following verse:

Turned the TV off

Crap from a satellite

With this remote control

I've regained my life

I think that I was in some state of exhaustion or epiphiany.

I mean can you believe that Maharaji beams that crap all over the world from satellites? He's so proud of it.

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Date: Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 12:35:47 (EST)
From: Mistress Grammar
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: You've been a very good boy today, Roger
Message:
Mistress Grammar
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Date: Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 13:43:34 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Mistress Grammar
Subject: But, mummy!
Message:
Mummy!

Reverend Runamok says that picture is a bad thing.

I'm getting confused again. I am hopping that I don't need a spanking?

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Date: Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 03:25:09 (EST)
From: Abi
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: Sure! If mom (Mistress Grammar) and dad (Catweasel) say it's ok.
Message:
You've stolen my heart with your wit and intelligence. Are you handsome too? Sigh...

I laughed my head off when I read your spoof. It was very cathartic. For some reason the songs have really stuck in my head. Everyone was into the Bay City Rollers and I was into... One Foundation. I remember coming back from some freaky fest in the UK when I was pretty small and chanting over and over again 'Guru Maharaji you are so big and I am so smaaaal. (something, something) I will always love you forever', until even my brainwashed parents got a bit sick of it and asked me to stop. And what was that awful song that went 'Jump down, turn around, meditate on Holy Name, Ooooh thank you Lord, meditate on Holy name!' And 'I wish I was a little stream flowing down to the ocean but then how would I seeee Guru Maharaj ji. It's Lila, Lila. And his game has just begun.' And another one all about love: 'At the Feet of the Master you can really let it go, let it flow, cos we're all love. We're all love. We're all love. We're all love. Love, love, love. We're all love, love, love. By His Grace.' All those dreadful, dreadful songs. Remember any more?

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Date: Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 15:25:33 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Abi
Subject: The day the music died
Message:
Indeed, how the music lives on and on.

Yes, they were dreadful awful songs, but they sure did stick with us. I was at the Miami 25th Aniversay show or maybe it was a Long Beach Big Show and Rich Neal, the skinny red hair guy from England, was brought back to sing his tunes, whatever they were. Well, we're talking 100% lip synched production with exact timing down to the precious atomic clock in the hall. Old Rich (actually looking 99% the same as back then) was a bit off the mark and slow on the draw with the microphone at his side when his lyrics had already started.

I liked Jiva and Something Happening in L.A. on George Harrison's Dark Horse label. At least they almost rocked. I met one of the Jiva-ites in Rome and he told me about some drunken party in L.A. where he woke up on the vomit covered floor next to Ringo Starr. He was a nice guy. Too bad about his lousy fifteen minutes of fame being as it was, but Jiva still lives once in a while here on the Forum.

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Date: Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 03:56:19 (EST)
From: Marilyn Manson
Email: None
To: Abi/Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: Sure! If mom (Mistress Grammar) and dad (Catweasel) say it's ok.
Message:
How about having a go at Arti? We can take it on the road, and I'll lend you guys some snazzy shades, the wig of your choice, and some bitchin' makeup. We'll call the tour the Arti Party and name our band 'No Foundation.'

Jai Guru Dev, Dude and Dudette

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 08:21:39 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Re: Lyric fragment to Rock Me Maharaji
Message:
(Some indian words I couldn't make out on tape)

In Maharaj Ji's love.

From memory it's:-

Balyogeshwar Param Sant Ji Maharaj is love...

(Great Lord Supreme Saint Respected Great King is love......?)

John the poor Hindi translater

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 08:09:43 (EST)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: Roger
Subject: P.S.....
Message:
P.S....

Roger, I leave it to you to use your clever mind to dust off those lyrics and make them real.....

Love, Cynthia

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Date: Mon, Nov 01, 1999 at 23:38:36 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: A hard choice
Message:
So I'm reading about all this Chinese persecution of Falun Gong cult members and I'm thinking, whose side do I root for anyway? I had this same problem when the Russians started clearing out the JWs. I mean, this is a real ethical dilemna. Any ideas?
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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 14:42:33 (EST)
From: fuck him
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Let god fight his own battles-nt
Message:
kusah
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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 08:24:14 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: A hard choice - really?
Message:
Jim

There's hope for you yet!

While I've been reading or watching on TV about what's happening to Falun Gong people, I've thought on a few occassions 'I wonder where Jim would stand on this?'.

I suspect the dilemma for you is something like the right to freedom of 'worship' and speech VS the eradication of 'cult' behaviour and superstition, in line with your much professed views in relation to Maharaji.

Based on my observation of your comments on this forum, I beleive that the Chinese government's actions on the Falun Gong are the logical extension on the kind of repression that you would seem to wish against Maharaji and co. and maybe you yourself uncomfortably suspect this! Hence the dilemma!

I must say I am very delighted that you see this as a dilemma, because it indicates you have DOUBTS about your own world view! Fantastic!

Mel

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 11:00:28 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: That's pretty dumb -- what a surprise coming from you of all people, Mel
Message:
Mel,

First of all, I was kidding. Like, duh! There's no way I'd support tyrannical oppression of people because they like to wear funny hats (which, in a lot of ways, is what it comes down to). Of course I think Falun Dong is a crock of shit. Its leaders should be exposed, humiliated, arested and charged if they've materially defrauded people (just like happens in any other scam). But this Chinese campaign is ridiculous. Mind you, maybe that's because communism's a cult too.

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Date: Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 05:36:42 (EST)
From: Mel Bourne
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Repression .....Jim, a question
Message:
Jim, let's push this a bit further....

What if Maharaji had this many followers in Canada and you were the head of a totalitarian regime there; based on your current views of Maharaji and premies....would you enact the kind of repression that appears to be unfolding in China? If so, why? If not, why?

Mel

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Date: Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 11:23:43 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Don't be an idiot
Message:
That's such a dumb question I won't answer it.
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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 21:28:34 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Cultural hypnosis!
Message:
Right you are Jim,

We are all affected by CULTural hypnosis. It's impossible to avoid, all pervasive. The fish doesn't notice water.

Dep

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 22:25:56 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Deputy Dog
Subject: Bullshit New Age Word Games
Message:
New Age dullness strikes again!

So the word 'cult' is the root of 'culture'? Wow! I bet you could write a whole book about that, couldn't you? Mind you, the word 'who' is embedded in 'whole' so maybe books are really just a way to get to know yourself better, eh? But then, if you think about it, 'yourself' is really an 'elf' ('yours' of course -- mind you, 'our' is part of 'your' so who's kidding whom anyway?)

.... and on and on and on it goes. New Age word games. Substitute for real thinking. Mental junk food, all sugar, no substance.

What else you got around here, Dog?

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 22:38:17 (EST)
From: Deputy Dog
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: New Age Word Games
Message:
--

I sent a Bible quote to Roger in a post entitled 'Years of Satsang,' and a paraphrased quote from the Buddha in 'Life is but a dream!' Hope you like them!

Dep

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 08:37:02 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Mel Bourne
Subject: Mel - you got it wrong
Message:
Based on my observation of your comments on this forum, I beleive that the Chinese government's actions on the Falun Gong are the logical extension on the kind of repression that you would seem to wish against Maharaji and co. and maybe you yourself uncomfortably suspect this!

Mel,

I don't know what Jim's response will be but I definitely do not want the repression of cults by governments. My understanding of this and other anti-Maharaji sites is that we are providing balance. Notice how most of the anti-M sites have links to the pro-M sites, and none of the pro-M sites link to the anti-M sites. The exes here appear to stand for openness and freedom of speech. The premie sites stand for revisionism and repression of information.

Which reminds you most of totalitarian states?

To answer Jim's dilemma, both sides in China are wrong. I suspect Falun Gong have grown so strong directly because of the totalitarian government there. They are two sides of the same coin. What the government should do is have complete freedom of information, and allow others to expose any flaws in Falun Gong, such as we are doing with Maharaji. Of course, if a country has a democratically agreed constitution and a religion or cult threatens that constitution, then the state has the right to take legal action, according to the constitution. China's treatment of Falun Gong clearly doesn't fall into this category.

John.

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 11:01:46 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: I agree entirely, JHB (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 04:36:05 (EST)
From: GM
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: A hard choice
Message:
'FALUN DAFA is an advanced system of cultivation and practice introduced by Master Li Hongzhi. Since its introduction in 1992, Falun Dafa has attracted more than 100 million people over the world. In addition to being a powerful mechanism for healing, stress relief and health improvements, Falun Dafa is different from other qigong techniques in having a higher objective of cultivation and practice towards enlightenment. It is complete with its own system of principles and empirical techniques'

Unless we go back to that definition of a cult being any religion we don't like, 100 million people would seem to be 1 or 2 too many to qualify as a cult IMO.

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 10:54:23 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: GM
Subject: You're on your own with that one, GM
Message:
Who said cults had to be small? Not me. As far as I'm concerned, any belief system that a) fills your head with bullshit and b) seduces you into turning off your bullshit detector (however weak it may be) is a cult. And yes, many if not all religions qualify in my books.
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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 00:58:09 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: A hard choice
Message:
The ends do not always justify the means, firstly. The ideas put forward by the Chinese govt are often reasonable, but their tactics do not reflect a reasonable point of view.

The Chinese party line about Tibet (that the religious order was a way to enforce feudalism, etc) may have had some truth to it, but killing a million people certainly was not a necessary step to control the religion (in fact it didn't even work).

Tougher choices:

So if the Tibetan religion's beliefs about reincarnation are merely superstition, would burning most of the monastic libraries (as happened) be a necessity? We could probably appreciate the 'primitive' writings anthropologically, if nothing else.

Burning books always seems totally totalitarian, no matter what the case.

Interesting point:

Falun Gong may well contain aspects of 'knowledge'.

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 20:09:44 (EST)
From: nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Runamok
Subject: I would never burn books, either, but...
Message:
You said: burning books always seems totally totalitarian

How could a totalitarian be less than totally totaliltarian?

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Date: Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 02:17:32 (EST)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: nigel
Subject: Re: I would never burn books, either, but...
Message:
I'm gonna have to research this one, Nige. I don't think I have the right books around, either. Are you absolutely sure this is not some kind of idiomatic thing or something?
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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 14:05:51 (EST)
From: Way
Email: None
To: GM
Subject: To: GM regarding Falun Gong
Message:
GM,

I disagree with your assessment of FG. From what I've read, it has all the typical elements of a cult. (Membership counts are not a defining element). Its leader, Mr. Li, claims to have some really outrageous powers, which supposedly began in his childhood. He is supposedly a fully-realized master, a divine being. By following Li and faithfully practicing all that he prescribes, the student can supposedly attain high levels of well-being in body, mind, and spirit.

There is absolutely nothing new or even vaguely unique about this path. It is all borrowed material rehashed in favor of its originator, who lives the good life in New York City (a wise move, I'll grant him that).

Do you have any first hand experience with Falun Gong practice youself, GM? If so, it would be interesting to hear about. Spiritual exercises do have benefit, after all.

The Chinese government should recite that prayer about changing the things you can change, accepting what you can't change, and knowing the difference. Mind control on a mass scale by agressive measures is an impossibility. So is wiping out human gullibility with similar methods. Open information and truth are the only effective weapons, not the consorship, force and coercion that they employ.

I do admit that I had a reaction similar to what Jim insinuates above about wishing the communists success in this one case even though their tactics are abhorent. The USA has gone way too far in the opposite direction, though, with civil liberties actually supporting lawlessness in this country, in my Nigelian unhumble opinion. Monsters like Koresh and Jones are treated way too softly here.

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 21:10:07 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Koresh
Message:
Monsters like Koresh and Jones are treated way too softly here.

You might be right about Jones but was Koresh really a monster or just a scapegoat to justify the ATF's budget?

What really happenned at Waco?

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 22:33:16 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: False dichotomy, Jer
Message:
Jerry,

Everything I've ever heard about Koresh persuades me hands down that he was a freak. Fucked all the little girls in the compound, etc. etc. Made Jagdeo look like ... hm, a saint (??). But that doesn't mean the government didn't jump the gun, so to speak.

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Date: Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 11:11:31 (EST)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: False dichotomy, Jer
Message:
Jerry and Jim,

The government should have stepped in sooner! The only success story we have in this country is that Rajneesh was exposed and deported, (and that was after a murder had been committed). All other gurus in the USA have gotten away with all kinds of crimes. The government is afraid to act because every little mistake they make is blown out of proportion and meanwhile the bad guys are screwing people (in both senses) and laughing all the way to the bank. I say the government should scrutinize Master Li unrelentingly and deport him back to China on the first infraction they find and then see if his divine powers protect him.

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Date: Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 08:12:56 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Koresh and EP
Message:
Was Koresh a freak or just a male doing what any male, animal or human, would do given the opportunity, that of spreading his genes in as many places as he can? These girls were bearing Koresh's children by their mothers' consent, all for the greater glory of God, of course. We are, after all, the moral animal.

The controversy goes a lot further than the government jumping the gun. Should the government have even been there in the first place, and if they shouldn't have, why were they? If you want to see an interesting documentary on the subject, check out 'Waco: Rules Of Engagement'. I saw it and come away thinking that Koresh and the Branch Davidians were demonized by a government agency, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms so they could garner public support to ensure their survival.

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Date: Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 19:39:07 (EST)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Re: Koresh and EP
Message:
Jim,

I just want you to know that I'm being a little facetious in my last post. I think Koresh was a self-serving, grandiose, pig. Still, he does make for an interesting subject in applying EP to.

It's all about genes, Jim.

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 17:33:22 (EST)
From: GM
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Re: To: GM regarding Falun Gong
Message:
Way, I was just making a point that the way the word 'cult' gets used around here, it has lost it's shock appeal.

That wasn't my assessment BTW, but just an overview for those who don't know anything about it, and I don't know enough to give a constructive opinion, but I'm really interested in the exercises and if I can learn to do them (for free), I'll get back to you and let you know. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that says the exercises are good for your health and longevity. There's a lot of things out there that can't be explained, for example Bio-dynamics, which is a natural, organic way of growing food, from your vegie patch to broad acre farming. They do things like bury cow horns full of manure in a pit for a year, and then make a preparation called 500 out of the manure, which is then used to fertilise paddocks at the rate of an ounce per acre, with great results. Some of the other stuff they do is even weirder, and it sounds like voodoo, but it works. There's a lot of good shit going on out there, along with the bad.

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 18:15:24 (EST)
From: Way
Email: None
To: GM
Subject: Re: To: GM regarding Falun Gong
Message:
GM,

Well, FG is now particularly popular and available in New Jersey and parts of California. Perhaps you live near a 'center' of some sort and can learn the traditional breathing exercices that regulate the chi and promote health. Perhaps you can even receive the 'law wheel.' Have you heard of that? Master Li personally bestows a mystical 'law wheel' in all of his followers' lower abdomens. The wheel then perpetually rotates, curing disease and promoting enlightenment. Yes, do let us know what you find out and what you experience.

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 18:36:43 (EST)
From: GM
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Re: To: GM regarding Falun Gong
Message:
Dear Way, I get the feeling that your taking the mickey out of me, and that's OK, 'cause when it all boils down, it's all good.

GM

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Date: Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 16:35:46 (EST)
From: Way
Email: None
To: GM
Subject: take the mickey
Message:
GM,

I take it you are British. 'Take the mickey out...' is not used in the USA. I've never heard it. I looked it up on an Internet site and found that it means 'teasing' but it still seems strange to me.

Cheerio, anyway,

Way

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 19:47:21 (EST)
From: Harry
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Ps to Way
Message:
The way I see it, is that's it's a big spiritual banquet out there, and there's all these religions, gurus, etc, are competing for market share (that's us). But we are the consummers, and we only have to take what we want. For instance, I'm intersted in the exercises only, but someone else may want or need to make a God out of the Falun Gong leader and that's Ok too, because some people need the structure and the imposed morality of organised religion. But I bet none of us get the full picture, and none of us are privy to the answers to the mysteries of life, so I think you should be careful before you dump a cold bucket of water on someone elses trip.

GM

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Date: Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 10:38:04 (EST)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Harry and GM
Subject: Re: Ps to Way
Message:
Dear Harry and GM,

You both are new to me so I do not know who I am talking to exactly, but...

Yes, I am trying to dump a cold bucket of water (and/or 'take the mickey out'). However, the exercices themselves are actually of interest to me, as well. I know yoga is energizing, and I could use something like that. I once went to a yoga class and in the middle of it my heart started racing about 140 beats, which was both intriquing and off-putting.

The problem is Master Li. It is NOT ok to make a god of him. He and all others like him need to be exposed for what they truly are. There is an interesting press conference transcript on the Web somewhere. Master Li answered questions from reporters in May of this year in Australia. His resemblance to Maharaji is striking. 'My followers say I'm God, because they see something in me, but I only say that I am an ordinary person.' etc., etc. Rick Ross' site has some good info.

I do agree with you, Harry, that one should allow people to approach the higher power in their own way. And there are indeed mysteries to life. But Li ain't one of them. He's a fraud, and must be exposed before we have people trying to jump on comets again.

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Date: Wed, Nov 03, 1999 at 17:09:11 (EST)
From: GM
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Gidday Way
Message:
Sorry if I confused you, but Harry and GM are the same person, and I'm just a poor, simple man from the Colonies (Australia) and I sometimes post on Anything Goes (it's not so noisy as here). I haven't heard 'cherio' for years, and then I think it was from Dame Edna Everidge.

It seems we have some common ground, but there's a couple of things you said that I'd like to address.

>>>>I do agree with you, Harry, that one should allow people to approach the higher power in their own way. And there are indeed mysteries to life. But Li ain't one of them. He's a fraud, and must be exposed before we have people trying to jump on comets again.<<<<

Well which is it? You can't have it both ways. Your saying that people should be allowed to approach the higher power in their own way, but then you say that he's a fruad and must be exposed, thus attemting to deny people to do that which you said is their right.

>>>>'My followers say I'm God, because they see something in me, but I only say that I am an ordinary person.' etc<<<<

This is pretty much what the Buddha said too, that he was just an ordinary person, but that hasn't stopped many people then and now from worshiping him as a God. By your criteria Buddha is a fraud too, and he didn't have 100 million followers.

Seems there's a need in some to create Gods from what they see as exception people, and there's the same need in others to deny the existance of God, full stop. There both acts of faith IMO.

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Date: Mon, Nov 01, 1999 at 23:11:43 (EST)
From: honesty
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: exposing m's hypocrisy
Message:
Anth- I read your journeys entry and immediately remembered you from the old days-you probably don't know me, but I was involved with Unity in

Denver and heard you give some pretty funny satsangs about running a school, having your afternoon tea, hiding playboys in your office, etc.

I was interested to see that you were involved up until fairly recently, but seem fairly negative about m now. I am in that same space and would like to open a dialogue with yhou about what might be done currently. Specifically, I see an incredible 'revisionist history' period happening, with little or no mention of what m said or did or promised to do in the past. He's now portrayed as a fun sort of guy with a neat little meditation that can help you if you give it a fair chance and stay in touch. I would like new people, especially at the potential mini tour programs to be able to understand this and possibly ask questions about this. It should be done in a fair and genuinely inquisitive manner-I don't think fanaticism plays well or serves anybody's purposes. We would simply like the truth about these issues.Is there a way we can force m to deal with this? I'm interested in knowing what you and others think. Would appreciate your response, and I will write more later.

Honesty is the best policy

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 14:29:44 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: honesty
Subject: Re: exposing m's hypocrisy
Message:
Yes, it would be great to ask some questions in an 'inquisitive manner' but the real question is, to whom? I don't believe Maharaji has subjected himself to questions in a good 25 years, except there may have been a brief period in the mid-80s in which he put down premies for even asking the questions. And as I know from personal experience, he ignores letters and emails that aren't completely obsequious. But I doubt he even responds to those, unless they are sent with a large amount of money.

That's why this website and forum are important. Especially J-M's website, which I looked at the other day and I was amazed at the amount of information there. Excellent.

I think Maharaji is paranoid of questions. I think they make him really uncomfortable because he isn't able to deal with them very well, and because he doesn't really have any answers to the questions. He is a major practitioner of avoidance, and because he is shielded from the outside world by his sychophants and his money, he likely sees no need to change.

Here's what I think. Unless there is a big IRS investigation or some other legal action, or unless he really starts running out of money, I doubt he has any motivation to change. Why should he? He is getting what he wants, money, from the way things are. Why rock the boat? He couldn't care less whether he loses devotees, as long as he has enough to keep the cash he needs rolling in.

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 04:00:40 (EST)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: honesty
Subject: Re: exposing m's hypocrisy
Message:
Honesty,

Your aims are precisely the aims of many of us here, but the question is apart from this medium how does the truth about the past get communicated to new people? Exes here have written perfectly reasable letters both by snail mail and by email (to M's address on his website) asking the same questions you raise. To our knowledge, M has never replied to anyone. We have also discussed infoming the local press when M does a program in a city and handing out flyers outside programs. This was discussed specifically for the Manchester UK program recently, and according to insiders, EV security were briefed on how to deal with us if we turned up outside. In the event we did nothing. But I think for a future program, we could be better organised:-)

We did get the Guardian newspaper in the UK interested, and a couple of articles were printed about Jonathan Cainer and Maharaji. JC is a UK newspaper astrologer, who had publicly stated his 'appreciation' of M's teachings. EV in the form of Glen Whitaker threatened legal action against the Guardian. However, JC's and EV's attempts at revisionism when writing to the Guardian were countered by contributions from exes here, and EV had to apologise to the Guardian for wasting their time.

Anyway, welcome, and if you have the time browse through the forum archives to get a flavour of the subjects discussed. Roger Drek's 'best of the forum' is a good places to see some of the gems posted here!

John.

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 10:52:26 (EST)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: JHB
Subject: Hey, did I miss something?
Message:
Well put, John. But I was surprised when you said that: 'EV had to apologise to the Guardian for wasting their time.' I must have missed seeing that detail reported. Did the apology actually happen? Has anyone seen it? Was it sanctioned by His Highness?

(I guess it could be one of M's miracles at last... )

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Date: Mon, Nov 01, 1999 at 21:47:58 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Fundamental Questions for Rob
Message:
Rob,

Some time ago you described some severe confusion and depression and claimed to be almost suicidal. You said you would contact me but never followed through. Why?

Since then, several people here have claimed that you're the same guy who's been posting as 'The Fly' and 'A Nerd'. Are you?

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 05:13:36 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Could Nil=URL=Rob?
Message:
And I'm assuming and praying that none of these characters is the infamous SHP.

Who are these people? And why do they sound so much alike each other? Doesn't URL have a job, a life, whatever? Why is he here? Does he get paid to be here? Does he wear clothing when he posts to us? And when did he stop kicking his dog?

Finally, I'm glad that he doesn't know my name and where I live.

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 11:47:44 (EST)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: URL = Nil but not Rob
Message:
URL and Nil are the same person and he has tacitly already admitted that. Plus, they share the same characteristics. Illogical, easily fly off the handle, compulsion about responding in some way to everything, etc.

'Rob' I think is somebody else. He or she doesn't have his or her buttons pushed as easily as URL/Nil, is a better writer, and I don't think he or she is as programmed as Nil is. There is a real conflict going on about Maharaji and the cult with 'Rob' but not with URL/Nil, who is a true believer and may be to his grave.

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 10:36:33 (EST)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: Could Nil=URL=Rob?
Message:
Dear Roger,

It makes no difference whether they are the same person or not. They represent the same mindset which I also hated when I was a premie. They don't know how to be honest. Their head(s) are permanently stuck up their own rectum(s).

Recently someone (Mel Bourne or URL) asked for particular data as to ashrams premies who were kicked out onto the street. I told him the name of the person who kicked me out(Dick Cooper), who claimed he was carrying out Maharaji's orders. Of course no response has been given.

And what makes you think he will ever stop kicking his dog?

Regards Jethro

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 07:54:18 (EST)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Roger eDrek
Subject: Re: Could Nil=URL=Rob?
Message:
Rob is British (or has lived here a lot in the past) and distinctive in his writing style and content. He's a bright spark and can't keep quiet for too long.

URL is a zealot and very different to Rob.

SHP is a bit like a gushing Jesus freak but (unlike URL) is not heavy and different again from the above two. SHP doesn't lose his rag like URL does. I don't know about Nil since I've never read much of him.

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 11:19:13 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: It matters for THEM (and who cares what they know about you?)
Message:
Roger, Jethro, Dave,

I agree with Dave that Rob's smarter than Url. Or seems that way anyway. Url and Nil have certain similarites and so I was interested when JW first asked if they were one and the same. Shp isn't even a possibility. He's a pompous fool but doesn't have Rob's sharpness or Url or Nil's nastiness.

I sya it's obvious why it matters. For months Nil posted garbage under that fake name. If he's moved on to another fake name it's got to be for one reason: even he takes absolutely no pride in his own cult-think. This is such a basic question, I can't understand how anyone -- myself included -- can think of talking with this guy without first demanding a simple answer. Is he the guy who used to post as 'Nil' or not?

And Rob? I dunno. He pretty well begged us to forgive him for his initial charade and I tried to give him that benefit of the doubt. He's obliged to follow up not just to grab another fake name to hide behind, etc.

Finally, what the hell does it matter what any of these losers know about me? I might get some anonymous satsang sometime? Or an unsigned gift from Vision's Swan Collection? Who cares? I've got weirder stuff on my walls than that and there's always room for more.

(Just for a joke I was thinking of putting a big picture of Maharaji up at my new office. Maybe that ugly green poster that made him look like Chairman Mao. Remember?)

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Date: Tues, Nov 02, 1999 at 13:50:49 (EST)
From: Roger eDrek
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: I remember Chairman Mao
Message:
Oh, yes, I remember Chairman Mao. I moved into a place and that picture was on the door. I thought that it was so cool!

Yes, Jim, you all completely up front with your real identity, but you live on an island far from real civilization. Me, I live in a country where there are more guns than people and every hardware store sells replicas of Maxwell's Silver Hammer.

And I know that I can expect some real hate mail when premies discover the Easter Eggs at Roger's House of Maharaji Drek.

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Date: Mon, Nov 01, 1999 at 21:44:52 (EST)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Fundamental Question for Url
Message:
Url,

Several people here have asked you if you're the guy who used to post as 'Nil'. What is your answer?

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Date: Mon, Nov 01, 1999 at 16:12:21 (EST)
From: Forum Administrator
Email: forumfour@hotmail.com
To: All
Subject: Forum Crash
Message:
The Forum was not infiltrated by hackers last Friday.

We have been informed by Paradise that the server hosting ForumFour went down last Friday and this was the reason the messages were wiped.

(Somebody suggested this may have been the reason, below.)

Forum Administrator

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 21:08:07 (EDT)
From: Discovery Channel
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Getting to know the IRS-CID
Message:
Why Is IRS Criminal Investigation Involved in Financial Crimes?

In August 1997, IRS Criminal Investigation (CI) participated in a press conference in the U.S. Virgin Islands. The United States Attorney invited IRS, DEA and the Virgin Islands Police to respond to questions regarding the announcement of a major narcotics-related enforcement initiative on St. Croix. The first question posed to the IRS representative by the media was, 'Why is IRS involved in a narcotics investigation?' Earlier in the year, the same question posed by a reporter from Time Magazine. He was researching an article on health care fraud and he was told to talk to IRS. His first question was, 'Why is IRS involved in health care fraud?'

Since the inception of IRS Criminal Investigation, our mission has been to follow the money. And almost from the inception, the question of 'Why is IRS involved?' has been asked. The fact is, no matter what the source, all income earned, both legal and illegal, has the potential of becoming involved in crimes which fall within the investigative jurisdiction of IRS CI. It is the objective of CI to utilize the broad authority of Title 26 and 31, tax, currency reporting and forfeiture and Title 18 money laundering, conspiracy and forfeiture to identify, investigate and prosecute the most significant tax, currency and money laundering offenders; and to pursue the assets of those offenders both domestically and internationally for criminal tax and asset forfeiture purposes.

IRS is involved because IRS CI special agents conduct full, in-depth financial investigations which are intensely revealing about life style, habits, business transactions and business associates. Such complex financial investigations often lead right to the door of the drug kingpin, the fraudulent telemarketer, or corrupt individuals such as health care executives, political leaders, return preparers or even the local grocery store operator.

Why is IRS involved in health care fraud? The Inspector General for Health and Human Services reported to Congress in July 1997 that overall Medicare waste, fraud and abuse amounted to $23.2 billion last year. During that Congressional hearing, Jeanette Garrison testified about how easy it was for her company, Healthmaster, to commit health care fraud. She testified that, 'The fraud and abuse involved was made possible through the complex corporate structure that was set up.' When IRS unraveled that complex corporate structure, two Corporate Officers of Healthmaster were convicted on various charges including money laundering and Ms. Garrison pleaded guilty to 10 felony counts. She agreed to make restitution to Medicare and Medicaid in the amount of $11.5 million and is still incarcerated in a federal penitentiary. IRS is involved in health care fraud to the extent that during the last four fiscal years, IRS has initiated over 859 health care fraud investigations and has, thus far, obtained over 320 convictions on IRS-related charges.

Why is IRS involved in narcotics? For IRS, our narcotics efforts are geared toward the proceeds of this crime: we follow the money. And the money invariably leads to the mastermind or kingpin of the drug organization. During the last four years IRS involvement in Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Forces (OCDETF) has included the initiation of over 3,500 OCDETF investigations. Over 2,600 IRS-OCDETF targets have been convicted of tax, money laundering or currency crime charges during the same time period. In fact, over the past 10 years, nearly 10,000 individuals involved in narcotics-related activities have been convicted on IRS charges (tax, currency and money laundering).

Because of the high demand by other law enforcement agencies for the financial expertise of IRS special agents, it is essential for us to maintain a balance between our IRS goals to foster compliance with the Internal Revenue laws and our Congressionally mandated requirements to investigate and recommend prosecution of those individuals who violate the currency reporting and money laundering statutes. But we are right on target with our goals for a balanced law enforcement program. We are maintaining a level of investigative activity that most effectively utilizes our resources to make significant contributions in all areas of tax evasion, money laundering and currency violations.

Why is IRS involved? Ask the elderly widower in Phoenix, Arizona, who fell prey to a telemarketing scam that cost him $400,000 of his life’s earnings. He has been reunited with his money thanks to a suspicious transaction report filed with IRS and investigated by CI, and the telemarketer is in jail on numerous convictions; one of which is tax evasion.

From the [CID Home Page]

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 21:22:01 (EDT)
From: Discovery Channel
Email: None
To: Discovery Channel
Subject: Re: Getting to know the IRS-CID #2
Message:
Money Laundering - Whose Business is it?

Dennis Crawford
Director, National Operations Division
IRS Criminal Investigation
(Published in the March 1998 issue of Banking Security magazine)

What is Money Laundering?

Money Laundering is a method used by individuals to try to make illegally gained or untaxed money appear to be legitimate by passing it through a legitimate bank or business.

'Why is IRS involved in Money Laundering?'

No matter what the source, all income earned, both legal and illegal, is taxable and has the potential of becoming involved in crimes which fall within the investigative jurisdiction of IRS Criminal Investigation (CI). When individuals or corporations attempt to corrupt the American system of taxation through fraudulent or illegal activities, CI special agents step-in to enforce the tax and money laundering laws. Financial investigations often lead right to the door of the drug kingpin, the fraudulent telemarketer, the money launderer, or corrupt individuals working in such professions as health care providers, political leaders, return preparers or even the local grocery store operator. In a financial investigation, CI special agents follow the movement of money through paper and computerized records. The link between where the money comes from, who gets it, when it is received and where it is stored or deposited, can provide proof of criminal activity and ultimately this proof can result in a conviction.

'Why are Banks Involved in Money Laundering?'

Since the inception of IRS Criminal Investigation in 1919, its mission has been to investigate financial crimes. And, one of the most effective tools for documenting financial crime has been information obtained from banks and other financial institutions. It is not surprising, then, that a unique and long-lasting partnership was developed years ago between the IRS and the banking industry. It is a partnership that took on more meaning in 1970 with the enactment of the Bank Records and Foreign Transactions Act ('Bank Secrecy Act') and later, in 1986, with the enactment of the Anti-Drug Abuse Act (which had substantive amendments to Title 31). Both acts required banks and other financial institutions to became even more involved in helping solve financial crimes by filing Currency Transaction Reports (CTRs), Suspicious Currency Transaction Reports, and Criminal Referral Forms (CRFs). On April 1, 1996, the suspicious activity reporting system went into effect, and the new Suspicious Activity Report (SAR) is now used in place of the CRF and the Suspicious Currency Transaction Reports.

No Smoking Gun!!

When IRS CI initiates an investigation, there is no smoking gun; no chalk outline of a body; no blood to test for DNA. Many IRS investigations begin with a simple piece of paper: a CTR, and more recently, a SAR.

The following examples demonstrate that the banks, their managers and employees have a very significant role in halting money laundering.

Bank Teller Testifies

In California, two Criminal Referral Forms (CRF) were filed by a financial institution. The CRFs reported that approximately $124,000 in currency had been deposited by an individual during two separate six week periods. The deposits were structured in amounts less than $10,000. According to the indictment, a bank teller told the IRS about a transaction in which she believed the individual was attempting to evade the monetary instrument recordkeeping requirement because the individual attempted to purchase two cashier’s checks, each for less than $3,000, in two separate transactions. The individual told the teller that by conducting the transaction in this manner, the teller would not have to complete the monetary instrument log. The teller refused to complete the transaction and informed him that she would be recording the transaction in the monetary instrument log.

Armed with this valuable information from the bank, IRS initiated an investigation that, according to the indictment, led to a U.S. Postal worker whose annual salary was $40,000. The IRS and Postal Inspector’s investigation ended with the conviction of the Postal employee who embezzled approximately $815,000 from the U.S. Postal Service.

The indictment stated that in an effort to keep authorities from discovering his embezzlement, the individual attempted to launder money diverted from the Postal bulk mail customers and structure his bank deposits to avoid the filing of Currency Transaction Reports. The U.S. Attorney dubbed it the largest embezzlement in U.S. Postal history.

The postal worker was sentenced to 41 months in prison and ordered to pay more than $815,000 in restitution.

Bank Manager Stops Money Laundering at Auto Dealership

In Massachusetts, an owner of an auto dealership was found guilty of structuring cash transactions. The IRS special agent’s affidavit, filed with the court, stated that the auto dealership owner called the bank to complain that the bank was 'harassing his employees' by filing out a Currency Transaction Report (CTR). The affidavit further explained that the owner instructed his employees to 'break up' the daily cash receipts to keep cash deposits below the $10,000 threshold and repeat the process over and over again.

According to the indictment, the IRS met with the Bank’s branch manager who advised that the bank became suspicious of the cash deposits and began preparing CTRs for all large cash deposits, even if the amount deposited was less than $10,000. The branch manager agreed to continue preparing CTRs documenting each suspicious cash deposit. A total of $2,188,590 in structured deposits was documented by 136 CTRs.

At sentencing, in addition to jail time, the Massachusetts auto dealership owner was ordered to forfeit $361,000 worth of American automobiles and funds.

Bank Suspicious of Structuring Transactions

A Bank in Boston filed a Criminal Referral Form (CRF) with IRS alleging that one of its customers was structuring the depositing of checks to evade the currency reporting requirements. The CRFs, documented in the indictment, listed 17 transactions conducted by a local bar which totaled over $150,000 in a 25 day period. According to the indictment, these deposits led to one of the largest stolen goods organizations operating in the US. The organization dealt almost exclusively in the over-the-counter pharmaceutical and other items carried in drug stores. This was a ring of professional shoplifters who stole drug store items, fenced them to a middle man who then sold the stolen items to a distributor. The two ringleaders were charged with racketeering, money laundering, tax fraud, mail and wire fraud and conspiracy.

New SAR Stops Illegal Money Transmitting Business

One the nation’s largest banks located in New York filed a Suspicious Activity Report (SAR) indicating that an individual had made a series of apparent structured deposits. According to the indictment filed with the court, each deposit was slightly under the $10,000 reporting threshold. After depositing the currency to his account, the individual completed a wire transfer request to the Philippines in the exact same amount. The SAR indicated that the individual claimed to be a money remitter. The indictment states that further investigation revealed that his license was suspended for failing to comply with the state licensing requirements. He subsequently plead guilty to USC 18 1960, operation of an illegal money transmitting business, was sentenced to probation and forfeited $100,000.

Bankers Uncover Narcotics Trafficking

Currency Transaction Reports filed by several banks uncovered a businessman who had attempted to profit from the narcotics industry. Several CTRs indicated that an office clerk was depositing large sums of currency in bank accounts. According to the indictment, the CTRs indicated that the clerk provided different addresses and social security numbers on the CTRs. The indictment further explained that the clerk was attempting to hide the fact that the business owner operated several businesses that catered to narcotics traffickers. The CTRs provided valuable leads to identify bank accounts and assisted with the probable cause needed to obtain a search warrant. A luxurious home and more than $10,000 of drug money was seized. The clerk and business man pled guilty to conspiring to evade income taxes.

Detroit Data Center Finds Fraud

Computer print-outs generated by the IRS Detroit Data Center showed numerous Suspicious Currency Transaction Reports being filed by various Western Union outlets in the Virginia area. An investigation led to the identification of a number of individuals involved in 'smurfing' activity of conducting financial transactions under $10,000 to avoid the reporting requirements. Following the money led directly to the leaders of a multimillion-dollar marijuana operation based in Virginia and California.

Whose Business is it?

Money laundering is not a victimless crime: Not only are innocent people 'duped' by various schemes, but the underground economy (which is untaxed) continues to grow. Understandably, the amount of tax revenue collected is a barometer of the overall economic strength of our nation and helps reduce our nation’s financial deficit.

The financial institutions and the IRS already know that money laundering is every one’s business.

published March 1998

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 21:30:40 (EDT)
From: Discovery Channel
Email: None
To: Discovery Channel
Subject: Re: Getting to know the IRS-CID #3
Message:
Report Suspected Tax Fraud Activity 1-800-829-0433
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 19:43:06 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Therapists Familiar With Cults
Message:
In light of the discussions recently regarding therapy and counseling after leaving a cult, and how to get it, I just so happened to get a mailer from AFF, (which I think is the successor to Cult Awareness Network (CAN)), about their annual confernce in April, 2000 in Seattle. For anyone interested, it's very cheap and I think ex-cult members get a discount.

Anyhow, one of the presenters is described as the following:

Roseanne Henry, a psychotherapist from Colorado, and former cult member, has co-led AFF's Colorado recovery workshops for seven years. She will talk about issues former members should consider when seeking therapy. Because so few therapists understand cults, she will focus on how ex-members can locate therapists who are most likely to be helpful, how ex-members can teach their therapists about cult issues, and how cult experts can be included in their treatment.

There are a bunch of other interesting seminars to be given.

You can contact AFF at aff@csj.org or at (941) 514-3081. They are in Bonita Springs, Florida and have lots of helpful information for people getting out of cults. Their website is www.csj.org

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 21:24:45 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: JW, you should go to this 'cause you could use the help
Message:
No seriously Joe, the degree to which you are bent cannot be healthy for anyone. You really need to get past this cult/anti-cult shit and get on with life.

Look at it this way, even with all your best efforts Maharaji is not going to go away. I guarantee it. And at the end of the day Knowledge will continue to grow. Why? Because there's a lot of people in this world who have a keen desire to know who they are and why they are here. And on the other side there is Maharaji who is somebody completely dedicated to helping them gain that knowledge. Don't ever underestimate the power of people's need to know and the dedication that he has to teach. It won't be stopped by the likes of you... I guarantee it.

And if it's not Prem Pal Singh Rawat it'll be somebody else. Hey, let's pretend for a second that Maharaji is a fraud and you guys were successful in proving that to the world. And what if next month somebody came along, say a 'real' teacher who could truly enlighten a thirsty person who wanted to know that truth. You wouldn't be open to it in the slightest. As a matter of fact you would pull out all the same old tired anti-cult clichés you now use to attack Maharaji, and mount another crusade. Because look, the thirsty have always been on planet earth. And I guarantee that as long as there is a thirst to know, there will be somebody to come along to address that thirst. And it will be either someone who is a fraud, or someone who is for real. And you Joe will never know the difference.

Of course, you could say there is nothing out there that can quench this thirst. I would ask: 'Then what would YOU have them do?' Shoot themselves? Fuck themselves into oblivion? Get into politics and fight for the rights of minorities? Get an education? No really, what advice is Joe going to offer these sincerely thirsty people who truly want to know themselves? Fact is, you don't have anything to offer short of an anti-cult crusade. For that, you will always need an enemy, and that will just bend you further out of shape than you already are. One day you won't be able to unbend yourself... hey, you may already be there.

I know your crusade is not so much a fight to protect the world from the evils of cults but an act of revenge to regain the dignity and self-esteem you lost by accepting so easily the cult-mentality prevalent in the '70s. My advice to you is there are better ways.

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 11:28:30 (EDT)
From: Susan
Email: None
To: All
Subject: :( I miss forum three :(
Message:
I am NOT asking Brian and Katie to come back and do that hellish job. But it certainly is not the same around here. I am not blaming the anonymous forum gods either. But I hate all these strange posts and I really hate opning a post and finding a sound file my old T model computer can't handle. Oh well, it was great while it lasted.

Sorry for the whining everyone.

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 16:07:19 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Susan
Subject: Re: :( I miss forum three :(
Message:
Hi Susan,
It was a wild ride filled with quite a lot of 'magic'
and 'grace' and 'that experience'.
I apologise to the lord guru maharaj ji for useing his
newly claimed words on his 'enemies' forum.

Lets do a simulation thread here.

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 09:44:44 (EDT)
From: Grace
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Famous Premies
Message:
Just being curious here, but it was mentioned that Annie Lennox and Michael Bolton are premies and I heard the actor Michael Nouri (starred in Flashdance) is a premie, anyone know of any others?
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 09:47:07 (EDT)
From: Dr Helen Caldicott
Email: None
To: Grace
Subject: Re: Famous Premies
Message:
Ihear that Phyllis Diller and John Dillenger were pretty keen.
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 09:55:29 (EDT)
From: frankace
Email: None
To: Dr Helen Caldicott
Subject: Re: Famous Premies
Message:
bee gees, linda mc cartney, harrisons wife, sting
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 16:42:35 (EDT)
From: Oliver North
Email: None
To: frankace
Subject: Re: Famous Premies
Message:
Hey, I was a premie and I'm famous. It's a dangerous world out there and I need protection of the master. But then I found Jesus and he's all I need.

Also, G. Gordon Liddy, and Howard Stern were premies for awhile, but I think they may have spaced it out. And so is that old lady that did the 'Where's the beef?' commercials for Burger King. She's pretty famous.

I think Michael Bolton is no longer with us. Didn't his head explode while singing 'When a Man Loves A Woman' during one of his concerts?

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 10:37:15 (EDT)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: frankace
Subject: Re: Famous Premies
Message:
Cat Steven's too.
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 10:53:00 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Rumors, rumors, rumors
Message:
Well, I know for sure that the Cat is a Moslem and quite orthodox at that. I'm sure he doesn't suck up the Lotus Toejam. As for the rest of these people, come on, where's the proof???
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 12:10:48 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Rumors, rumors, rumors
Message:
Michael Nouri was in the 'entertainment' at the astrodome in 73, thats the only one that I know once was, it was a big deal back then to have a 'known' actor as a premie. I don't think he was that well known in '73
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 11:32:37 (EDT)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Rumors, rumors, rumors
Message:
Gerry,

I knew Michael Bolton, formerly Bolotin--he was in the New Haven, CT community, I was in Hartford--were both musians. It was common knowledge Michael Nouri was a premie and he was frequently seen at programs (it was discussed and bragged about)--this was before his acting career took off. Cat Stevens did receive k but left it very shortly after--about 20+ years ago. His admission. George Harrison's ex-wife Patty did have k. George himself talked about it in an interview where he said that they both had altars, his to Krishna and hers to Maharaji-they'd meditate side by side to their own personal Lords.

I'm sure there are others and I don't understand why you care about proof.

Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 15:06:55 (EDT)
From: Earthling
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Re: Rumors, rumors, rumors
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 11:54:06 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Re: Rumors, rumors, rumors
Message:
I concede. I really don't care, Cynthia. I just know Cat's a moslem and not a gooberite. Please don't read any hostility into my message, as there's non intended.
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 11:44:07 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Re: Rumors, rumors, rumors
Message:
Michael Nouri was on that morning TV show with Regis and Kathy Lee earlier this year. He described his experience with a meditation but was very vague. No mention of the guru of course. Regis said it sounded good and that he himself could probably use a little of that. (No, I do not watch that show! I saw the clip on another program). Many top stars are quite happy being seen with the Dalai Lama. How many stars are happy being associated with Rawat???
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 12:28:49 (EDT)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: Way
Subject: Re: Dalai Lama
Message:
Dear Way,

Interesting observation about famous people/stars hiding their association with Rawat. Because I used to know Michael Bolton, I used to wonder if he still was a follower, or just gives money. I don't really care, but I know Michael is a very rich man now. Who knows???

But I don't know of one famous person who associates themself with Rawat, yet even Scientologists like John Travolta, et al, are very proud of their affiliation with their brand of cult. Go figure.

Love, Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 16:12:16 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: Cynthia G.
Subject: Re: Dalai Lama
Message:
Hi Cynthia,
Mike left the grand poobah in the mid-eighties.
He is embarrased by the stupidity of the whole thing
and as for his money, his manager stole a bunch
like bill joel's manager stole a ton of his.
Mike now has better management.
travolta must be really lost to buy that stuff but
who am I to talk!
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 09:35:13 (EDT)
From: kmdarling
Email: unlimited@aol.com
To: All
Subject: Was anyone at Glastonbury in 71?
Message:
Gee, this is the first time I've actually started a thread. This is supposed to go right after the messages about Syd’s book about the new age in Britain.

Were any of you at Glastonbury in 71? I was there serving macro food to the masses. Then, while standing on my head, naked and stoned, Maharaji came on the stage. I didn't pay it much attention, but the buzz was, “Who is this self-important little demi-God surrounded by security and sycophants and talking rubbish? Bring back the music!”

However and notwithstanding, I was a premie within 3 months! Did he zap me? Did he zap you? I have an old book about that first Glastonbury festival that has some recognizable soon-to-be-premie faces in it.

Kathryn Darling

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 19:26:57 (EDT)
From: Joan Baez
Email: None
To: kmdarling
Subject: Were you at Woodstock in '69?
Message:
I was. And I had a wonderful, glorious, experience. I saw light and heard beautiful voices. I think I saw God. Peace.
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 19:37:28 (EDT)
From: Joe Hill
Email: None
To: Joan Baez
Subject: Joan, Joan, Joan, It Was Me You Saw (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 19:33:14 (EDT)
From: David Crosby
Email: None
To: Joan Baez
Subject: Were you at Watkins Glen in '70?
Message:
I was, I think. I was so stoned I don't remember much.
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 16:42:03 (EDT)
From: syd
Email: sydhancock@yahoo.fr
To: kmdarling
Subject: Re: Was anyone at Glastonbury in 71?
Message:
I have an old book about that first Glastonbury festival that has some recognizable
soon-to-be-premie faces in it.

I watched th e Glastonbury Fayre film of the '71 festival a few nights ago and Anth is in it, very clearly held on camera with his characteristic grin, towards the end of the film.

Syd

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 10:17:42 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: kmdarling
Subject: Re: Was anyone at Glastonbury in 71?
Message:
My wife was there - she was some distance from the stage tripping on acid. She heard this beautiful voice, and ran to the stage. She collapsed at the bottom of the stairs, as Maharaji walked past. She says she saw bright light, but had no idea who he was. It was only some months later in Anglesey when a friend came to visit and told them to get knowledge that she found out who he was.

There have been other threads here where strangers to Maharaji had strong experiences in his presence. This leads me to speculate that he does (or did) have some kind of 'power' over people. Maybe he did 'zap' you!

John the believer in Maharaji's powers

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 19:23:59 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Oh Please
Message:
My wife was there - she was some distance from the stage tripping on acid........

...She collapsed at the bottom of the stairs, as Maharaji walked past. She says she saw bright light, but had no idea who he was.

Do you think these two things are related? What is Maharaji, or was it acid? Geez, I wonder which it was?

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 12:16:03 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Was anyone at Glastonbury in 71?
Message:
I've seen the film of Maharaji's performance at Glastonbury that year and it was a very weak performance, in my view. He looked shy, out of place and ill at ease and his words came across as not particularly earth shattering. He talked about him having that word and how people should come to him to get that word.
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 02:59:59 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Hack Attack
Message:
Ever hear on the news that 'hackers broke into the such-and-such site and defaced it, temporarily shutting it down' or something to that effect. I think Bush's presidential candidancy site was hacked recently and government sites are the ones most commonly heard about.

I know Paradise has some costlier options which have special features (like the forum can place a well-trafficked thread at the top of the list regardless of when it was started). but I don't know what kind of security is available.

My guess is it's a premie as Joey has been big with the organized guns of opposition to cultism lately in his posts. Too bad we can't peacefully argue amongst ourselves, huh.

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 01:23:15 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: All
Subject: oooh....I'm so scared!!
Message:
--

The war between Scientology and its
online opponents may have no visible
end, but victory in the latest skirmish
goes to the Net. Last week, a judge
dismissed a request from Bridge
Publications (one of the countless
subsidiaries of the Church of
Scientology) for summary judgment
against FACTNet, a nonprofit online
anti-cult group that Scientology had
accused of duplicating its copyrighted
material.

FACTNet claims that the copyrighted
material -- church documents by L.
Ron Hubbard that reveal secrets
Scientology members normally have
to pay thousands of dollars to read,
such as the origin of the mythical
creature 'Xenu' -- isn't legally
copyrighted at all. (FACTNet had
copied the material to CD-ROM,
allegedly to back up its own research
databases.) The judge is allowing
FACTNet to argue its case; the case
will now go to trial, where the Church
of Scientology will have to prove
copyrights to each of the 1,914
individual documents it claims were
copied. FACTNet, in turn, is
convinced that the documents are
public domain, and that the Church of
Scientology didn't even have the right
to copyright them in the first place.

'Scientology has been claiming loudly
to be the victim of the largest
copyright infringement case in U.S.
history,' FACTNet said in a
statement, 'However ... the real
perpetrator may be Scientology itself,
and the lawsuit could turn out to be
the largest case of copyright
registration fraud in U.S. history.'

More info on www.factnet.org

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 20:50:56 (EDT)
From: LRH
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: You should be
Message:
Joey,

Why the fuck you having a go at these poeple. Don't you think its a) OT and b) stirring up a hornet's nest for no reason?

Have you any idea what they are capable of, and I don't mean last night's graffitti trick, I mean really nasty stuff. And they're everywhere - for all we know one of them could work at Paradise-web. Isn't that a scary thought - shit maybe there's even a premie/scientologist on the inside, ever considered THAT possibility?

Don't fuck it up for the rest of us with your private vendetta.

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 04:06:57 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave (retired)
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: You won't believe this but
Message:
The scientologists are now putting out a full TV advert on British, prime-time TV every night on all the channels. It's blatant and it is pure cult advertising with no punches pulled.

Why doesn't Haharaji do this?

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 10:58:55 (EDT)
From: Nigel
Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Sir Dave (retired)
Subject: Which ad, Sir D?
Message:
I don't watch much telly nowadays, but this is interesting. What is their angle? Do they mention who they are?
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 11:54:51 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: Which ad, Sir D?
Message:
I saw it last night on Sky News, around 10 pm. They advertise a book by L Ron Hubbard with a phone number to ring to order it. They make suggestions in the advert about how Scientology is the way far Man to advance now, especially with the new Millennium here etc.

I have no doubt that if you order the book, you'll get lots more Scientology info in the mail and perhaps some visitors to your doorstep one Sunday morning.

I've never seen a cult advertise on prime time TV before. It's a bold step and one which Maharaji could copy. The only trouble is, what's he got to offer? Four secret meditation techniques which everybody knows? A book of his poetry, perhaps?

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 11:58:31 (EDT)
From: Katie
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: Which ad, Sir D?
Message:
Hi Sir Dave -
Scientology used to advertise on late night TV (very late) in the US - not sure if they still do (this was maybe 10-20 years ago). They advertised the book 'Dianetics' by L.Ron, and had a toll-free number to call. Sounds like the same type of ad.

I don't doubt M could come up with a good TV commercial (an edited introductory video). He just needs an 800 number.

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 19:28:16 (EDT)
From: biff
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Which ad, Sir D?
Message:
Hey Katie,

I've seen those ads for 'dianetics' as well. Even more recently the '10-20 years ago'. I also remember that around 7 or 8 years ago they had a full blown slickly produced 30 (or was it 60?) minute infomercial featuring satisfied scientologists. One of the satisfied practitioners explaining the benefits of scientology in his life was Chick Corea.

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 14:20:18 (EDT)
From: Charlie
Email: None
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Which ad, Sir D?
Message:
I once heard of a plan to make a commercial film for Maharaji.

The suggested storyboard was:

A white Rolls Royce pulls up in the middle ground. A red carpet is rolled away out to the middle distance stopping at the door of the car. The door opens and out steps M dressed in a tuxedo and top hat. He walks along the carpet up to the forground where he's neatly framed in the TV screen.
He says: 'Well, how else did you expect me to come?'

Did anyone else ever hear of this?

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Date: Mon, Oct 25, 1999 at 22:14:24 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: All
Subject: cult net deception
Message:
From Steve Hassan's website

Efforts to Deceive Public Continue
It seems that the efforts to deceive and confuse the public about cult
awareness continues.

Earlier this year Cult-Info, a newly formed cult-awareness organization,
adopted the name Leo J. Ryan Foundation. Cult-Info/ the Leo J. Ryan
Foundation is not a Scientology-linked organization. It has attempted to
provide services similar to the original Cult Awareness Network which
closed in 1996. It’s web site is www.cultinfo.org

A second organization has now adopted the name Leo J. Ryan Organization as
well.

It would appear that the Internet Service Provider for this newer
Glendale-based Leo J. Ryan Foundation is owned by a person allegedly
connected to Scientology according to Scientology-connected WISE literature. The web site for the second Leo J. Ryan Foundation is:

http://www.educfnd.org/

Registrant:
Leo J Ryan Education Foundation (EDUCFND-DOM)
p.o Box 9946
Glendale, CA 91226

Domain Name: EDUCFND.ORG

Administrative Contact:
Carty, Edgar (EC4550) edgar_carty_1001@HOTMAIL.COM
(323)769-1220 (FAX) (323)769-1266
Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Relay Point DNS Administration (RP106-ORG)
dns-admin@RELAYPOINT.NET
800-432-8233
Fax- 213-663-9137

Billing Contact:
Carty, Edgar (EC4550) edgar_carty_1001@HOTMAIL.COM
(323)769-1220 (FAX) (323)769-1266

Record last updated on 12-Feb-99.
Record created on 12-Feb-99.
Database last updated on 31-Jul-99 04:16:51 EDT.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS1.RELAYPOINT.NET NS2.RELAYPOINT.NET 207.213.114.251

the phone number for 'Carty, Edgar (EC4550) edgar_carty_1001@HOTMAIL.COM'
comes back as:

6430 Sunset Blvd. Suite 700 Hollywood, CA 90028 Phone:(323) 769-1220 Ext. 213 or 214 Fax:(323) 769-1266

Relay Point, Inc. (SITEGATEWAY2-DOM)
PO Box 9946
Glendale, CA 91226

Domain Name: SITEGATEWAY.COM

this is owned by Doug DeStafeno, a Scientologist (see the WISE 1997 list)

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Date: Mon, Oct 25, 1999 at 19:52:31 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Moonies, guns, and Private Eyes!
Message:
From the Cult Observer vol.16 #4

With parts of it business empire in decline, the Unification Church is making money making guns. The Rev. Moon's four year old KAHR ARMS, located in Worcester, MA, makes pistols and tommy guns. an ex-member says church leaders have tried to onscure the organization's involvement in the arms business because 'They were afraid if anti-cult groups found out, they'd have a field day.'
Well no kidding Sherlock, whats your next clue?
You should see the paranoia at Amtext and they're into used textbooks, NOT guns!

Some former members and gun industry critics perceive a contradiction between the church's teachings and its corporate involvement in marketing weapons promoted for their concealability and lethality. Moon was reportedly drawn to the gun industry by two of his sons, who are avid firearms hobbyists.(well let's hope Hansi and Amar don't get into guns, because if they do... man would that ever be some kind of shootout or what!?) One of them, Justin Moon, a magna cum laude graduate of Harvard with an economics degree, runs Kahr.

Larry Zilliox, a Mclean, VA private investigator who has researched the Moon business network for a decade, ( Hey Larry, when you're finished over there, we got some work for you over here!) said Moon views enterprises such as Kahr as critical to his future. Moon no longer looks to the church as the core organization,' said Zilliox. 'The movement's business part is the enduring part.'(Washington POST, Internet, 3/10/99)

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Date: Mon, Oct 25, 1999 at 19:44:55 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Lying On Dettmers Resume
Message:
Many of us know what position Michael Dettmers held in Maharaji's cult. We saw him. We talked to him. We followed his directions as cult-members trying to serve his employer, Guru Maharaj Ji. I am also quite sure that at least until 1983, it wasn't a Swiss Foundation Dettmers was in charge of.

So, why does he lie? Is he embarrassed of his involvement with Maharaji? Here's what he says over at Gylanix Solutions, his company, which he runs with a woman who looks like the Breck girl. Big hair. Big, big, hair.

As the Managing Director of a Swiss-based Foundation from 1973 to 1982, he organized educational programs and events in over 25 countries. He also managed its world-wide business operations including travel services, event management, health food services, and publications and video productions generating revenues in excess of 100 million dollars in 1982.

This is how he describes Divine Light Mission folks. And why won't he answer my emails? The $100 million is kind of interesting. I wonder if Maharaji (and the IRS) are aware he is throwing that number around.

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 20:21:39 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Re: Lying On Dettmers Resume
Message:
Biting intellligence work JW! Aren't you just shocked that anyone would be less than 100% honest on their resumé!? Say, why don't you show us how it's done. Why don't you publish your resume here so we can see how an 'honest' person like yourself spins their work history to account for those less than marketable employment history details that we all have.

Seriously JW, the extent to which you spin facts and concoct conspiracies to malign premies and Maharaji is truly pathetic. You really need help man. No REALLY! Next thing, you'll be checking premies' matresses and reporting the 'culprits' who have removed the tags.

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 21:23:11 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: Lying On Dettmers Resume
Message:
So you consider a claim of managing a $100,000,000.00 enterprise a small or inconsequential indiscretion, like trying to cover a month or 2 on you resume?

the real question is WAS IT A $100,000,000.00 ENTERPRISE, AND IF SO WHERE DID THAT LITTLE SUM GO. I MEAN THATS ENOUGH TO MAKE ME TURN INFORMER TO THE IRS

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 11:43:17 (EDT)
From: Cynthia G.
Email: cynthia@madriver.com
To: W
Subject: Re: IRS
Message:
Dear Way,
If you want to put the effort in to screw up EV and M's finances (MY MONEY) with the IRS, I say go to it and have fun!

Cynthia

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 08:45:55 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Re: Lying On Dettmers Resume
Message:
i HAVE SOME OLD DETTMER SATSANG ooops around here from
that era. Hardly sounds like a managing director of some
big operation. But sounds like a total cult zombie.
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 17:24:01 (EDT)
From: kmdarling
Email: unlimited@aol.com
To: bb
Subject: Re: Lying On Dettmers Resume
Message:
Yeah, total cult zombie would be great on his resume, or on any of ours!

You do know Michael is an EX-premie, right? More power to him if he wants all his years of effort and application of his skills to be acknowledged on his resume without carrying MJ’s stigma, which he has rejected, apparently.
The 100 million and the Swiss foundation, now, hmmm! That’s another matter!

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 19:00:07 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: kmdarling
Subject: Is He An Ex -- Or Is He Just Protective?
Message:
Maybe he doesn't mention DLM and Maharaji because he's trying to protect M -- keep him out of the limelight.

I think if he is an ex, there isn't any reason he couldn't tell the truth, or at least part of the truth. He would have to blatantly lie like that.

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 20:32:52 (EDT)
From: Joey
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: Re: Is He An Ex -- Or Is He Just Protective?
Message:
JW,
kmdarling seems to be making the point with great certainty, that MD is now an ex, and perhaps the following will support what she says.
-I've heard it said more than once here in Montreal where Michael is originally from, that he had stolen a considerable sum of money from m's organization during the latter part of the eighties, or early 90's.
-When I asked Anne Johnston about him in 1996, she really didn't even want to speak about him. The impression that I got from Anne whom I know fairly well,was that Michael had fallen too low to even be worth speaking about .
-At the Amtext party in 1996, Barbara Brogan, as part of my ongoing indoctrination, made it a point of emphasizing that MD wasn't even at the party. According to her, Amtext had now become m's most important business venture and Chuck Nathan, m's most important aide re: business matters.
-I did see MD at the last Long Beach event I attended in 1996. He didn't look like a pam, or a premie, OR an ex. He looked totally paranoid and looking behind his back.

Regarding your questions:
Maybe he doesn't mention DLM and Maharaji because he's trying to protect M -- keep him out of the limelight.

Yes MD may very well be attempting to protect m and keep him out of the limelight...in order to protect HIMSELF.

I think if he is an ex, there isn't any reason he couldn't tell the truth, or at least part of the truth. He would have to blatantly lie like that.

MD's entire business history is inextricably wound up with m. I believe he's doing what he has to do, to keep himself in a positive a light as possible with m's inner circle, so that they don't get 'too heavy' with him. Also, I'm sure MD
would like to avoid being thrown out as a bone by m to the IRS should they come knockin.
Personally I believe that MD is a thief who learned his craft from the very best, m himself. Unfortunately for Michael, once you've been a thief for m, especially a successful one...its difficult for m to let you go. For one reason you know too much about his empire and how it was built. Secondly I really believe m is so egotistical and greedy, he hates to see anybody doing anything on their own.
In other words once you've been HIS thief, don't get any ideas of going into the thievery business on your own.
I believe that Dettmers is a thief who wants to be out on his own. Unfortunately because of the huge role he's played in m's organization..its just not that easy for him.

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 20:51:24 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Joey
Subject: Re: Is He An Ex -- Or Is He Just Protective?
Message:
I think we should leave MD alone. Especially if he's in the state that Joey says he is in. At most we should invite him here to tell his experiences if he's so inclined. I think he would be very interesting to say the least.
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Date: Mon, Oct 25, 1999 at 22:35:37 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: JW
Subject: maybe old url is right
Message:
I had no idea the cult was such a well managed enterpise in the 70's. I wonder how i could have missed it, Oh I must of been realized
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 10:47:23 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Re: IRS
Message:
Has anyone actually emailed the IRS to recommend that they conduct an investigation of Elan Vital? The figure from 1982 might get their attention. All the pertinent websites, including Dettmers, could be listed for the IRS. If this has not already been done, I would be happy to do so.
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 18:06:25 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Way / Any Lawyers?
Subject: Re: IRS - Any lawers?
Message:
www.guidestar.org has lists of charitable / nor profits, unfortunately they don't have religous organizations but they do have Eln Vital with no info. Maybe one of our lawyers could see if we can legally get a copy of the IRS 990 form which is what they should be filling out. That would be the document to see.
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 19:18:03 (EDT)
From: JW
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Re: IRS - Any lawers?
Message:
I checked with the Registry of Charitable Trusts in California, and they said Elan Vital told them in 1989 that they no longer needed to file financial information. I thought that was extremely fishy. Is anyone paying any attention to this?
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 14:00:32 (EDT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Re: IRS
Message:
Oh, I think that the IRS is very interested in Rotwat and company these days. It never hurts to have a chorus of complaining voices though.

Know It All

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 11:06:32 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Way, what's the scoop?
Message:
What's the scandal with Gangaji? I know Muktananda and his girl GooberMayi were (are) scoundrels, but what's the dirt on Antoinette? (gangaji)
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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 11:36:11 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Way, what's the scoop?
Message:
Gerry,

Hey, wrong thread.

I am not privy to any insider dirt on Antoinette. But her site is another typical guru trip. Read the 'how you can help' link. She suggests that handing your stock, bonds, and real estate over to her is a good way to serve humanity, and the section where her followers write her letters shows that she takes credit for the spiritual experiences of her sycophants, so like premies in the way they talk. She claims to be a fully enlightened master and claims a lineage to masters of the past. It's exactly the same gig. So typical, and identical to dozens and dozens of others.

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 12:12:15 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Well I heard she fucks donkeys...
Message:
Just kidding.

I can understand your wariness. This is an unfortunate side effect of being in M's cult. I believe JW or maybe Katie call this 'the spiritual ripoff.'

I think there is a huge difference between Gangaji and Goober. I've listened to her talks, I've listened to Goober's recent talks. We're talking apples and oranges here even though a thin veneer of hinduism wraps both packages.

The advaita tradition of Gangaji, Poonja, and Ramana is light years away from Goober's puerile, and self serving requests for 'graditude.'

Of course, everyone is free to think what they want. I have chosen not to 'throw the baby out with the bathwater.'
Gangaji: How you can help

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 12:35:32 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Well I heard she fucks donkeys...
Message:
Gerry,

Take that little baby and chuck it out the window! What needs to go is the guru. What needs to stay is your own self.

Be wary!!! Read the letters! You can find them through the link for satsang...library...letters. Such things as:

After watching one of your videos I could feel the power of your presence, coming out of the VCR, no less!

Beloved Gangaji, you are really blowing my mind and I love it. You have enlightened me. Free, free, free. I have never been a person. I have nothing to do with a person. Gangaji, I love you!

When I heard you say 'I am your own Self,' I KNEW it to be true. My personal story is over! I still get terrified but the terror is so different.

Read all the letters, Gerry. Then, run like hell.

p.s. do you live in California, her home base? What did you experience at the satsang program? Did it cost $10.00 to get in?

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 13:09:34 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: My little advaita adventure
Message:
Can I say 'fuck' on this forum?

I've heard her speak only on the 'net.

I did see Nick Ardaugh (another advaita guy who hung around Poonjaji in India like Gangaji did) 'live' in Seattle once. (I live in Washington state) It was free. I gave the local sponsor ten bucks to help defray his cost for bringing Nick there.

Nick did his thing, advaita satsang, the usual stuff, similiar message as Gangaji. There were about a dozen people there and I asked a question and he took me through his routine. That is, a short questioning, who are you etc.

When we were leaving I said to Patty, 'what a bunch of bullshit' and she said well what were you giggling at when you were talkling to Nick. You were as bad as they were.' Or something to that effect.

I was a little annoyed at her remark and having wasted the evening and still had an hour and a half ride back to home on I-5. Since Patty was driving and I was feeling a little jumpy (these things tend to nerve me out) I decided to self medicate by buying one of the Northwest's fine barley soothers.

I crossed the street to a small market where they sold beer and when I went to pay for it and looked at the cashier, I was practically floored with a feeling of love or bliss or whatever. And she wasn't even that good looking!!!

Anyway it lasted for about a day and a half. But it was fun while it lasted. I still like the advait philosphy. But Gangaji is a little too syrupy for me.
Letters to Gangaji

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 13:24:01 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: My little advaita adventure
Message:
Gerry,

Very interesting, first-hand story! Thank you. I do believe this woman is more dangerous than Rawat. I'm not surprised that your high lasted only a day and a half. Gangaji lets everyone know that the self-annihilation must be 100% in order for the 'ease' to last. (Syrup is only one of her aspects). I've just emailed her and told her to cut it out. About those letters of gratitude: my 'favorites' were: the guy who saw her in New York and the woman alchoholic whose brother recently died. These are fragile people who can quite easily be significantly damaged.

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 13:29:42 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Re: My little advaita adventure
Message:
Glad you liked the story. Why is it, do you think, that the effect lasted only 36 hours or so. It was a really nice head space to be in. Very functional, yet, different, high, loving, whatever.

Is all advaita dangerous, in your opinion, or just Gangaji?

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 14:57:40 (EDT)
From: Way
Email: None
To: gerry
Subject: Re: My little advaita adventure
Message:
Gerry,

All of it. Although I have not studied any texts or know much about the other teachers who share Gangaji's status. I was an admirer of Ramana Maharshi in the early 70's. A gentle and evolved human being, was my impression. If another gentle and evolved person had the opportunity to interact with him personally and learn a lesson or two, all well and good. From what I remember, Maharshi did not accept devotees and was particularly anti-guru. I may have been misinformed about this, since it now appears that the philosophy comes witha pronounced dependence on a guru. What we've got now is all sorts of impressionable people being fed a lot of dogma about escaping ego and transcending into Godhead, loving gratitude toward a guru they hardly know, and requests for funds. I also think that constantly asking yourself the question 'Who am I?' can drive a person nuts. The whole scheme is too neurotic and self-absorbed, ironically. What do you think? Did you read any of the letters? Very intense.

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 20:42:12 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: Way
Subject: Re: My little advaita adventure
Message:
Actually, she takes a two fold approach. You can use self inquiry and look over your own shoulder until your head blows up or you can worship her as the divine mother. Your choice depends on your temperment.

Seriously I don't know much about her but I'd pay my ten bucks for 36 hours of fun and no hang-over if she ever comes to Seattle.

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 12:25:15 (EDT)
From: gerry
Email: None
To: all
Subject: Gangaji 'Syncophants'
Message:
I especially like that gratuitous syncophant 'Kenny,' who's traveled with Gangaji. He's a black guy who spent 27 years of his life in prison. His stock portfolio must be huge by now, as well as having considerable real estate holdings, I'm sure.

I wonder if Goober recruits much these days from prison?

Am I being 'passive-aggresive?'

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Date: Tues, Oct 26, 1999 at 17:18:53 (EDT)
From: kmdarling
Email: unlimited@aol.com
To: gerry
Subject: Re: Gangaji 'Syncophants'
Message:
Er...yes.

Love your discussion about Avoida (as my hub calls it).

I have volumes of opinions and experiences with Advaita, Advaitan teachers, and people who have worked with them.

There is DEFINITELY a great awakening expansion available when you release identification with your limitations––or, in fact, with anything. There’s nothing specious or pernicious about having this realization. However, there seems to be a fatal flaw: the people who specialize in this approach are often in fact resisting themselves, or parts of themselves (emotions etc. mostly) and really want to get to the other side, because there is a resistance to what is. Ganga Ji is one of the more sophisticated of these teachers in that she adds a bit of psychological content to what she does, but what seems to be happening is that people went to see Poonjaji (almost everyone I know here in my area of N. Cal. went to India to see him while he was alive). They get an incredible transmission and experience great expansion. They come back and meet the unresolved parts of themselves and hold on to the IDENTITY of identitilessness and become teachers of Advaita. I personally know of twelve of these!. It’s like a sort of frequency that you can generate by a certain sort of internal focus. (In fact, in the seminars I teach, we PLAY at generating it, just to show that it’s just a generatable frequency.) People come around and you ”transmit” this experience to them––you really can, as a temporary high! But transmission isn’t the same as having had an expansion by actually “eating your way through” the unhappiness or whatever that’s inside you. It’s more of a transcendent approach like Knowledge–let’s go up, up and away from our bodies and emotions and even our mind, to where it’s safe and blissful. The rap is that Advaita is more integrated, yet I've found that there’s a subtle resistance to worldly life. And boy, does the shit hit the fan in some of those advaitan teachers’ lives! And also in that of students (if you’ve read my posts or Journey you know I worked for years as a therapist with people resolving issues with cults), because although you Jerry (or was it Way, I'm confused) were okay with having the experience and then losing it, some people can get guilty and confused and severe tire damage can occur when they find that they are receding from IAM consciousness; they have “lost” it. And they don’t even have Knowledge to practice, and saying Who am I can drive you crazy and doesn't do much for the feelings.

I don’t think Advaita is bad, nor Gangaji (although her style irritates me), and I like Nick Ardagh, when he’s being himself (I know him personally, but have never been to his satsang). I have a very “BOTH/AND” approach to the whole thing, as to many things. I think it can be confusing for people. I think it can be a positive next step for some people. I've never come across the kind of crassness and manipulation I now perceive (retroactively) in MJ. I think the Advaitan teachers are quite sincere.

Who am I?
Kathryn Darling

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