Forum IV: The Ex-Premie Forum
Archive: 2
From: Thurs, Aug 26, 1999 To: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 Page: 1 Of: 5


Dr Octopus -:- STEPPING STONES -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 12:56:57 (EDT)
__ URL -:- Re: STEPPING STONES -:- Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 20:49:40 (EDT)
__ __ Christopher -:- Re: STEPPING STONES -:- Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 07:24:03 (EDT)
__ Prof Heinz Baked-Beans -:- Re: STEPPING STONES -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 15:21:20 (EDT)
__ __ Christopher -:- Re: STEPPING STONES -:- Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 13:13:13 (EDT)
__ Robyn -:- Re: STEPPING STONES -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 14:48:25 (EDT)
__ __ Christopher -:- Re: STEPPING STONES -:- Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 13:20:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: STEPPING STONES -:- Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 13:57:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Christopher -:- Re: STEPPING STONES -:- Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 07:26:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: STEPPING STONES -:- Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 11:43:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Dr Octopus -:- Re: From the edge of beyond -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 07:27:00 (EDT)
__ Ben Lurking -:- Re: STEPPING STONES -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 14:23:58 (EDT)

Jean-Michel -:- Better pictures -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 09:48:17 (EDT)
__ ham -:- One hundred & ateeeeee -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 13:31:55 (EDT)
__ A Premie -:- Re: Better pictures -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 10:24:42 (EDT)
__ __ A Real Premie -:- Re: Better pictures -:- Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 01:33:34 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- Dear Premie, -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 15:28:24 (EDT)
__ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Better pictures -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 11:56:17 (EDT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Try the Hare Krsnas (nt) -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 15:29:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Try the Hare Krsnas (nt) -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 20:27:56 (EDT)

Roger E. Drek -:- ***Best of SHP*** -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 02:29:21 (EDT)
__ Shp -:- Re: ***Best of SHP*** -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 13:58:47 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- What's yours Shp? -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 15:09:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ Shp -:- Re: What's yours Shp? -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 15:44:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- As we say in Latvia... -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 14:16:50 (EDT)
__ __ Roger E. Drek -:- Say no more. This is ***Best of SHP*** -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 14:06:42 (EDT)

Shp -:- Easier said than done -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 00:24:27 (EDT)
__ doormat -:- blind follow blind -:- Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 05:40:38 (EDT)
__ __ Shp -:- Re: blind follow blind -:- Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 23:07:50 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- A Quick Celtic Edit -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 13:57:15 (EDT)
__ __ Shp -:- Re: A Quick Celtic Edit -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 14:27:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Amen. Halleluliah. I'm Free (nt) -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 15:13:47 (EDT)
__ Jerry -:- Misquote -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 11:56:05 (EDT)
__ __ Shp -:- Re: Misquote -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 13:41:05 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- Jehovah's Witnesses go home -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 02:38:41 (EDT)
__ __ Skypilot -:- Re: Jehovah's Witnesses go home -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 17:36:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Jehovah's Witnesses go home -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 23:06:49 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- Jim, pass the Ricola...(nt) -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 14:00:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ Liz -:- Re: Jim, pass the Ricola...(nt) -:- Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 23:28:11 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Lis, you'd better ask Robyn...(nt) -:- Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:29:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Lis, dear -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 10:58:14 (EDT)

Jim -:- new age cleans(w)er -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 18:32:08 (EDT)
__ Shp -:- Re: new age cleans(w)er -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 19:07:08 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- hypocrite -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 21:49:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ Shp -:- Re: hypocrite -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 22:22:25 (EDT)

Mr D -:- Usual stuff -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 23:07:37 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- She's right. -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 16:20:24 (EDT)

chr -:- the compassionate M -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 22:58:12 (EDT)

Larkin -:- Something in the air -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 20:22:20 (EDT)
__ People's Poet -:- Re: Something in the air -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 15:44:43 (EDT)
__ Liz -:- Darling buds of May -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 23:39:43 (EDT)
__ Gregg -:- Re: Something in the air -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 22:57:46 (EDT)
__ Robyn -:- Love ya Larkin! :) -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 20:52:01 (EDT)

Forum Member -:- Shp returns! -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 20:12:34 (EDT)
__ Shp -:- Re: Shp returns! -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 21:28:03 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- Hi Sandy. -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 16:16:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Hi Sandy. -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 16:32:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jerry -:- Woe, hypocrite! -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 12:37:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Woe, hypocrite! -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 14:10:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Re: Hi Sandy. -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 16:46:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Hi Sandy. -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 16:58:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Agreeing about things. -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 17:41:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Agreeing about things. -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 17:51:04 (EDT)
__ __ Forum Member -:- No reply re: Jagdeo -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 00:53:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ Shp -:- Re: No reply re: Jagdeo -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 02:23:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: No reply Jagdeo -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 09:33:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Re: No reply Jagdeo -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 03:03:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: No reply Jagdeo -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 10:20:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Re: No reply Jagdeo -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 11:38:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: No reply Jagdeo -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 16:15:56 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ gmom -:- interesting points here -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 12:30:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: interesting points here -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 16:59:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Gmom -:- thanks SHP -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 23:01:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: thanks SHP -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 23:31:39 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Re: thanks SHP -:- Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 06:41:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Barbara -:- Re: thanks SHP -:- Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 02:05:07 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Barbara -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 00:20:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: thanks SHP -:- Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 23:33:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Barbara -:- Re: thanks SHP -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 03:06:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: thanks SHP -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 08:43:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jean-Michel -:- OK, so tell us please -:- Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 05:16:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hey, Barb -:- Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 02:33:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: interesting points here -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 13:53:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: interesting points here -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 15:15:50 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: interesting points here -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 15:47:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gmom -:- SHP -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 14:15:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: SHP -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 15:08:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: interesting points here -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 13:29:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ gmom -:- Re: interesting points here -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 14:17:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: interesting points here -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 15:09:03 (EDT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- Thanks SHP -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 23:24:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Thanks SHP -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 00:13:59 (EDT)

Forum member -:- New Forum Administrator -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 13:51:37 (EDT)
__ Runamok -:- New Guidelines? -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 18:30:11 (EDT)
__ __ Runamok -:- Understood -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 20:15:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ Forum Member -:- Re: Understood -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 20:20:58 (EDT)
__ __ Forum Member -:- Re: New Guidelines? -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 19:04:30 (EDT)
__ Hihomumio -:- Re: New Forum Administrator -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 15:56:11 (EDT)
__ __ Sir Dave -:- So where's the balloon then? -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 21:06:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ AJW -:- Boing boing boing -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 16:53:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ Runamok -:- Re: So where's the balloon then? -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 23:55:44 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ VP -:- GOODBYE TO THE FORUM -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 09:58:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ bb -:- VP -:- Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 09:37:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Runamok -:- Re: GOODBYE TO THE FORUM -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 20:34:54 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- All you need is love -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 21:01:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ barney -:- My Two Cents -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 13:52:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- Re: My Two Cents -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 16:02:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ barney -:- Your refund, madame -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 17:49:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Your refund, madame -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 21:38:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ barney -:- Roseanna Roseanna Dana (ot) -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 00:24:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Gmom -:- Re: GOODBYE TO THE FORUM -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 13:20:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- Re: GOODBYE TO THE FORUM -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 21:56:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Forum Member -:- Re: GOODBYE TO THE FORUM -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 22:24:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Hi Veep (NOMB) -:- Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 11:42:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ VP -:- Re: Hi Veep (NOMB) -:- Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 13:10:30 (EDT)


Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 12:56:57 (EDT)
From: Dr Octopus
Email: not yet recommended
To: All
Subject: STEPPING STONES
Message:
From: Dr Octopus

'The Stepping Stones of Logic'

In the not too distant past, M claimed to be the most powerful incarnation of God this world has ever known.

Now, think this through, everyone who has the courage to. Logic needs to be applied. Carefully.

Apparently he no longer claims to be the most powerful incarnation of God .

The question which logic forces us to ask is this:

These apparently verifiable facts -DO THEY, OR DO THEY NOT make him the biggest liar this world has ever known?

There are only two choices in this case. Either he is lying now, or he was lying then.

By wanting to have it both ways, what has he revealed himself to be?

There is a proverb: 'A good liar needs to have a good memory.'

Just WHo are we dealing with?

Just a liar? Or ABIGONE ...?

And what kind of karma awaits him?

Now God, stand up for Truth.

Christopher.

BE clear, folks (and see the whole wood, as well as the trees).

(If the above appears to make absolutely no sense whatsoever, an explanation will be made available to anyone requesting it, or alternatively, if you would prefer to work it out for yourselves, pencils can be made available).

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Date: Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 20:49:40 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Dr Octopus
Subject: Re: STEPPING STONES
Message:
Apparently he no longer claims to be the most powerful incarnation of God .

To be a liar he would have to claim today to NOT be the most powerful incarnation of God -- which to my knowledge he has not.

Just WHo are we dealing with? Just a liar? Or ABIGONE ...? And what kind of karma awaits him?

If you believe in karma shouldn't you be worried about yours. ;-)

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Date: Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 07:24:03 (EDT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: STEPPING STONES
Message:
A whistle-blowers gotta do what a whistle-blowers gotta do.

C.

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 15:21:20 (EDT)
From: Prof Heinz Baked-Beans
Email: None
To: Dr Octopus
Subject: Re: STEPPING STONES
Message:
Dear Sir,

I beg to inform you that you are probably an arachnid. However, don't despair, spiders have a very good life doing precious little other than frightening human beings, spinning webs and catching flies.

Yours sincerely, etc etc

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Date: Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 13:13:13 (EDT)
From: Christopher
Email: not yet
To: Prof Heinz Baked-Beans
Subject: Re: STEPPING STONES
Message:
Perhaps.

But I know one particular person who is more frightened of octopi than arachnids.

Has Rawi arranged his escape-route yet?

At the moment, though, the game of hide and seek is to try and find the logic in his 'strategy'.

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 14:48:25 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Dr Octopus
Subject: Re: STEPPING STONES
Message:
Dear Doc,
Didn't understand it all, the song? but thought it was amusing anyway! Of course all the exes will understand the other completely. I am mostly replying because I could use a few pens if you are also passing them out. At my job I have no budget for little office supplies and Q-tips which I need for my work also and have to supply them myself. I realized today my last pen must have been lifted last week but I've still got pencils. I'll send my snail mail address if you are willing to strike the deal. :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 13:20:17 (EDT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: STEPPING STONES
Message:
Have I really found my Robin?

The pens must have something to do with our feathered friends.

You angel!

P.S. Is one of your pencils an H-B?

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Date: Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 13:57:55 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Re: STEPPING STONES
Message:
Christopher, Christopher, Christopher!
BE CLEAR!!!!
Now I get the Q-tip reference anyway, you came close to a sensitive topic there believe it or not! The rest of you post is very UNCLEAR!!! Any luck with the contest yet? :)

'Have I really found my Robin?'
No you have found RobYn! A slight yet significant difference.
Love,
Robyn

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Date: Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 07:26:02 (EDT)
From: Christopher
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: STEPPING STONES
Message:
Anyone for a FlaminGO?
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Date: Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 11:43:21 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Christopher
Subject: Re: STEPPING STONES
Message:
Dear Christopher,
I get it now, you are Sureal Simon's second cousin! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 07:27:00 (EDT)
From: Dr Octopus
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: From the edge of beyond
Message:
Yes, my arse is real. And consider this very carefully.

My 'role' seems to be the escape 'incarnation.'

You 'might' find yourselves passing through an incarnation like this one of mine when you deserve to progress on to the next level. (If there be 1)
Who be Barabbas?
Christopher

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 14:23:58 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: Ben Lurking
To: Dr Octopus
Subject: Re: STEPPING STONES
Message:
Maybe he knows of a more poewrful God that nobody else knows about so now he is telling the truth - unfortunately this New God (NG) does not have a marketing department yet. Or maybe he lost his title in a poker game with the rest of the Gods - I mean lets leave no stone unturned here - maybe even the premies know who this NG is. Maybe he will take a new name like DLM->EV, MJ may now become NG which would make NG, new, more powerful, and safe for countertops to.
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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 09:48:17 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Better pictures
Message:
As I've received a few comments regarding the poor quality of the pictures on my website, I took a few lessons, and here is the result:

Not for oversensitives exes

To avoid blurred pictures, scan them with the maximum resolution for your scanner, and adjust the scale (with the scanning utility) to the size the picture you want to have, or slightly bigger. Then reduce it to the exact size you want with your drawing software.

Avoid scanning to scale 100%, and then reducing the size of the picture with your software, which usually results in loss of quality and unnecessay blurring.

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 13:31:55 (EDT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: One hundred & ateeeeee
Message:
As an oversensitive xpremie, proof can be supplied if required, would it be possible for you to add a dartboard over one of his pictures?

It would really be appreciated J-M, and you would have my undying devotion. (Don't tell anyone but I'm already a strong admirer of yours for exposing the radha/techniques/shri hans/family business scam, but I'm praying Jethro doesn't see this cause he can get very jealous)

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 10:24:42 (EDT)
From: A Premie
Email: worm@lotusfeet.com
To: Jean-Michel
Subject: Re: Better pictures
Message:
Your all sick and mently ill peeple and dont reelize the truth that Maharaji is the gratest master of any time and yoo shud crawl on yore hands and nees across seven continents to ask him four forgivness and spend the rest of yor livs in an ashram repaying Maharaji four yor breathe wich you dont deserv even to look at him you shoodent even do that becors you are less than speks of dust and you downt reelize it becorse you are all Judas Escarrot and kik him in the teeth evry time you think!
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Date: Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 01:33:34 (EDT)
From: A Real Premie
Email: None
To: A Premie
Subject: Re: Better pictures
Message:
No, no, nothing new here. Just more ridicule of people who value the experience of Knowledge. Same old, same old.
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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 15:28:24 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: A Premie
Subject: Dear Premie,
Message:
jai sat chit anand brother, or sister, in his love.

It is really beautiful to read your words, whenever you come to this pit of darkness and hate. They are a beacon in our darkness, a candle in our wind, bring love where there is none.

You are truly an instrument for Him.

Pranams at the Holy Lotus Feet of Balyogeshwar Param Hans Sant Ji Maharaj Ki Jai Ki Jai Ki Jai Ki Jai Ki Jai Ki Jai.

Anth the stick of insensed burning at his feet.

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 11:56:17 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: A Premie
Subject: Re: Better pictures
Message:
Are ashrams now back in vogue? Where in the US can I visit a local ashram?
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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 15:29:19 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Ben Lurking
Subject: Try the Hare Krsnas (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 20:27:56 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Try the Hare Krsnas (nt)
Message:
No thanks I have had enough eastern bs for this time around
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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 02:29:21 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek
Email: None
To: All
Subject: ***Best of SHP***
Message:
Welcome back, Mr. Shp.

Hope you enjoyed your summer hiatus.

I'm too busy working on my novel to read all your posts so I'll ask you and everyone else to submit suggestions for the ***Best of SHP***.

Batten down the hatches, the old Shp is back!

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 13:58:47 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Roger E. Drek
Subject: Re: ***Best of SHP***
Message:
How many folks here know what 'drek' means?
It means shit in Yiddish. Waste material. Not good for much
Unless it comes from an animal with a certain diet and can then be used
For fertilizer. Helps grow great tomaotes, etc. Everbody produces it,
but only certain folks with a certain fetish save it up and hang onto it.
Little babies play with it until they learn it's not good for them.
Your house is full of it, dedicated to it.

By the way, the old Shp is not back. We all constantly change and grow.
What you are attempting to do to me is:
1) negative figure ground: trying to keep me in a negative place
2) demonize: trying to picture me as someone really wacky and 'bad'

Those who know me will understand. Those who don't will search for the
truth if they are worth their salt. Those who are locked into a negative view
will remain locked into a negativce view until acted upon by an outside force.
(Newton's law of inertia.) No worries, no problem.

When you dig a hole for someone to fall into, you will fall into it yourself.
And your hole is full of drek.

Respectfully recognizing the divinity within you,
Shp

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 15:09:56 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: What's yours Shp?
Message:
Hi Shp,

I must say, I did detect a note of affection for your good self in old Roger's comments up there. (Something, I must confess, I have developed for your maybe a little 'wacky', but definitely not 'bad' self.

Why Shp, I even detected that the old Antichrist himself greeted your return with a dash of affectionate wit, after you finished your little tete a tete.

And on a more serious note Shp, many of us here respect you for asking Maharaji, sincerely, about Jagdeo.

People might appear a bit rude, but that's because they think you come here as someone representing the teacher and cult that we're all recovering from. Something like someone marching into a bar in Warsaw, telling everyone how great Stalinism was, and how really, they should go back to communism from a dictator in Moscow, just like in the good old days. However shp, as I'm personally aware you sent the dictator an email, asking about the missing 30,000,000 Cossaks or whatever, I will vouch for your good self and buy you a drink here.

If, however, you start a fight, by for example, making fun of the name of my first online Publisher, the Honorable Roger Drek, I'll look the other way until the ambulance arrives.

And I'd stay away from those two pissed Cossacks in the corner. They carry weapons and they've got about 29,999,998 old family scores to settle.

Things move on in life, often in a way we don't expect. Stick around for a while Sandy, who knows, we might see your journey up here soon.

Anth the Optimist.

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 15:44:08 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: What's yours Shp?
Message:
Anth,

I hold all sentient beings in great regard and love.
That includes Roger.

Over and out,
Sandy the Triple Aries who believes that the stars incline but do not compel.

PS Thanks for the drink. Tasted a little like nectar. First cyberdrink I ever had. Nice energy.
Next round is on me and for the whole lot of you, and be sure to most generously top off the glasses of the folks who hate me the most.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 14:16:50 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: As we say in Latvia...
Message:
Hi Shp,

In Latvia we say, 'Zelta is stronger than nectar'.

Anth the Latvian.

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 14:06:42 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Say no more. This is ***Best of SHP***
Message:
Ya, you betcha! This is a ***Best***!

Read it and more (secret love letters sent from Shp to barney) at Roger's House of Maharaji Drek.

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 00:24:27 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Easier said than done
Message:
Eight Verses on Training the Mind
by Geshe Lang-ri Tang-Pa

With the determination to accomplish
The highest welfare of all sentient beings,
Who surpass even a wish-granting jewel,
I will learn to hold them supremely dear.

Whenever I associate with others I will learn
To think of myself as the lowest amongst all
And respectfully hold others to be supreme
>From the very depths of my heart.

In all actions I will learn to search into my mind
And as soon a disturbing emotion arises
Endangering myself and others,
I will firmly face and avert it.

I will learn to cherish ill-natured beings
And those oppressed by strong misdeeds and sufferings
As if I had found a precious
Treasure difficult to find.

When others out of jealousy treat me badly
With abuse, slander, and so on,
I will learn to take all loss
And offer the victory to them.

When the one whom I had benefited with great hope
Unreasonably hurts me very badly,
I will learn to view that person
As an excellent spiritual guide.

In short, I will learn to offer to everyone without exception
All help and happiness directly and indirectly
And respectfully take upon myself
all harm and suffering of my mothers.

I will learn to keep all these practices
Undefiled by the stains of the eight worldly concerns,
And by understanding all phenomena as like illusions
Be released from the bondage of attachment.

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Date: Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 05:40:38 (EDT)
From: doormat
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: blind follow blind
Message:
oh great, another voice bleating about
being -nothing- in this world.
trying to please the unconcious oneness so that I will
not be reborn here in this place of suffering.

thank you buddha for showing me to be a doormat and
a nothing and ignore my human nature and look at it
as an obstacle in my way of moving up the
'wheel'.

The voice of slavery cries out for spiritual reward.
Self imposed slavery.
Spiritual slavery.
confused misperception of life.

grow up and face reality
head on.

Ignore the idiots who tell you your mind is your enemy.

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Date: Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 23:07:50 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: doormat
Subject: Re: blind follow blind
Message:
Dear 'mat',

The talking doormat calls the devotee a slave...hmmmm.
Your thing had a beatnik beat, are you from back there and then?

You've got the words but not the meaning.
Check out Rumi, who writes that he goes out and enjoys
The world and all it has to offer and all its tastes and smells
And then retreats to his inner self to reconnect with his most
enjoyable experience.

You remind me of the 'rebel' scholar who interprets the Krishna quote
'the true devotee laments neither for the living nor the dead'
to mean that you should not attend the funerals of loved ones and
not express any emotion whatsoever...and so you condemn the whole
thing. I beg to differ with you. You can comfort the widow, the orphan, the abused, the oppressed
without lamenting. You can act on their behalf and get totally involved in their plight
without attachment and be very effective. You can accomplish great things for the good
of people and be unattached to the whole process. In fact, you can be more effective the less
attached you are. You can attend a funeral without lamenting. You sound like
I sounded in my sophomore year of college when I first saw the Be Here Now book,
some thirty two years ago. Keep going, there's more, lots more. I am not judging you,
I see you. Be not so literal and the spirit will show you what it all really means.

Get past the words and get into the energy. The passion of Chirst, the detachment of Buddha, the playfulness of Krishna, the wisdom of Solomon, and more. All these attributes and then some are available to us all now. We can mix and match and find our strengths and our calling to our destiny
Do you Yahoo? Or just boohoo?

Shp

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 13:57:15 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: A Quick Celtic Edit
Message:
Hi Sandy,

I loved the heart behind it, except for verses two, five, six and eight which, if I had been old Geshe Lang-ri Tang-Pa's editor I would have discussed cutting out for the following reasons.

Verse 2,

Whenever I associate with others I will learn
To think of myself as the lowest amongst all
And respectfully hold others to be supreme
From the very depths of my heart.

Old Lang-ri wasn't very street wise. There's lots of nasty jerks out there waiting to take advantage of someone who looks on them as 'supreme'.

Verse 5.

When others out of jealousy treat me badly
With abuse, slander, and so on,
I will learn to take all loss
And offer the victory to them.

Naah Sandy, screw 'em. Somebody's got to make a stand somewhere. 'No Surrender' as they say in Ulster. Us Celts go down swinging our swords, cursing our enemies.

Verse 6.

This one really takes the cake, because I have 25 years experience in this area(probably at least as much as old Geshe,).

When the one whom I had benefited with great hope
Unreasonably hurts me very badly,
I will learn to view that person
As an excellent spiritual guide.

As you know Sandy, I ended up thinking I'd been guided 'up the garden path' as we say in England. I mean really, is he saying you should take any old nutter as a master? If you really need a spiritual guide, why not start with the sky, or the sea, or your breath, or something? Looking to another person as a spiritual guide is a bit like asking someone to taste your food, to see if you like it. You have to taste it yourself don't you?

So verse 6 gets the axe.

The last verse is a load of waffle, so that goes too.

That leaves us with:

With the determination to accomplish
The highest welfare of all sentient beings,
Who surpass even a wish-granting jewel,
I will learn to hold them supremely dear.

In all actions I will learn to search into my mind
And as soon a disturbing emotion arises
Endangering myself and others,
I will firmly face and avert it.

I will learn to cherish ill-natured beings
And those oppressed by strong misdeeds and sufferings
As if I had found a precious
Treasure difficult to find.

In short, I will learn to offer to everyone without exception
All help and happiness directly and indirectly
And respectfully take upon myself
all harm and suffering of my mothers.

I think it's improved, but still needs more work.

Anth the Celtic Editor

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 14:27:37 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: A Quick Celtic Edit
Message:
Anth,

As ever, we can talk without malice and in brotherly love, despite our differences, which is the real communication here. I would tend to agree with your fine tuning. I posted those verses that recently came to me, as is, in a sincere effort to find some common ground to communicate on.

The whole thing can be boiled down to the Golden Rule: Treat others as you wish to be treated.
I have read that the thing Jesus said about loving your neighbor as yourself came from Buddha saying 'love your neighbor for he is yourself' suggesting the oneness of which we are all a part. (Now I will be blasted for using Jesus' name and 'preaching', but I trust you know me better than that).

Sandy the Optimist

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 15:13:47 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Amen. Halleluliah. I'm Free (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 11:56:05 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Misquote
Message:
In short, I will learn to offer to everyone without exception
All help and happiness directly and indirectly
And respectfully take upon myself
all harm and suffering of my mothers.

Hi, Sandy. I think you misquoted the above verse. It's supposed to read...

In short, I will learn to offer to everyone without exception
All help and happiness directly and indirectly
And respectfully take upon myself
all harm and suffering of you muthas.

Just trying to help. But seriously, why do you have to be so perfect in every which way? What will you gain by it?

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 13:41:05 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Re: Misquote
Message:
Jerry,

The quote was accurate as I posted it, to the best to my knowledge.
I don't have to be 'so perfect in every which way' as you put it.
I will be the first to admit that I am far from perfect,
but at the same time say that I am a perfect whatever I am right now
and so are we all perfect whatevers we are.
I naturally go for the light and love wherever I can find it,
And whatever can free me from human suffering and strill be alive
And deal with life from a more peaceful and hopefully effectivce place.
It's my nature.

Shp

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 02:38:41 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Jehovah's Witnesses go home
Message:
Shp,

Go preach to your fat, slimy guru. We're hanging out in the back playing cards and smoking. Na na na na na....

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 17:36:14 (EDT)
From: Skypilot
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: Jehovah's Witnesses go home
Message:
Shp,

Don't worry about Jim. He's a classic iconoclast. I predict that in three years he will be a Theravaden Buddhist.

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 23:06:49 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Skypilot
Subject: Re: Jehovah's Witnesses go home
Message:
Skypilot,

In three years, if Jim is whatever you said, can you tell me what you think the winning lottery numbers
will be in the Big Game and Powerball? I'll split it with ya. And it won't be like we are gambling, because you'll know. Ommmmmyback hurts, see ya later,
Shp

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 14:00:19 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Jim, pass the Ricola...(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 23:28:11 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Jim, pass the Ricola...(nt)
Message:
What the heck is Ricola? I thought it was health candy (sweets to you Anth) from Switzerland.

Please enlighten me.

Love,

Liz

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Date: Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 14:29:27 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Liz
Subject: Lis, you'd better ask Robyn...(nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 10:58:14 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Lis, dear
Message:
Dear Liz,
I was hoping that Anth would tell you since he started it, not a very pretty boy Anth! A Ricola is a rolling machine. It is simple and not something I would bother with personally but, those English you know. :) The point is What is he using it for when cigerattes(can't spell em, don't smoke em. :), come rolled already, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 18:32:08 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: All
Subject: new age cleans(w)er
Message:
In a thread below, on the question of what to think of the other so-called 'masters', I said:

First of all, they were all wrong. That's the first thing. None of them were messengers of God, let alone God incarnate. Secondly, some of them, perhaps most, actually believed their own
bullshit. So they were conning themselves as much as anyone else, I guess. Why? What do you think?

to which Shp replied:

Hey Jim,
Didn't anybody ever teach you to state your case without judgement? As in, 'that's not my cup of tea' or something like that, instead of saying
'wrong', and in in bold no less.

Well, Shp, that's a very nice new age idea isn't it? Yes, I admit, people did try to teach me this and, at times, I almost bought it. Fortunately, I came to fast enough. Shp, you sound just like some of the people who wander the aisles at new age salesfests like the Whole Life Expo. No matter how wack the ideas are at one booth or another, they pick up the pamphlets and thank the barkers for the 'information'. Ever done that, Shp? Ever been there?

Listen, fool, I'm entitled to my opinion, no? Mine is that all the so-called 'masters' we know about merely played on the ignorance and fear of the human race. Not a single one them knew shit about where life or the universe really came from. Now, if you think otherwise, fine. Argue the point if you like. But don't tell me to hold off forming an opinion on some ill-conceived notion of new age etiquette.

You are anti-everyone who ever came in
peace now, not just Maharaji. Now it's not just Maharaji, but Jesus,
Buddha, and all the rest are con artists too?

Can't you read? I don't think it's fair to call people who believe their own bullshit con artists. That's a different kettle of fish reserved for pungent stinkers like Maharaji. No, it's quite possible, for instance, that Jesus actually thought he was the messiah. Mohammed too, for that matter. But were they? Of course not. Oh sure, you may think so but I don't. And, as I've said many times, I have no respect at all for your opinion. More about that in a moment.

You may have cleaned up your snytax to stay online, but you haven't changed a bit since I was
here last, perhaps you are more depressed and hurting inside about all that has gone down in the name of God in your personal life. Welcome to
the human race. Everybody hurts about something. And everybody can feel good about something too.
The actual people you mention could have quite possibly been right on, and those who came after could have quite possibly perverted the
message. Maybe that's what you hate and abhor, not the essential message. I feel that you long for love to rule the world as much if not more than anyone here. And that is why you are so pissed, because things ain't perfect yet.
A suggestion: work on yourself.

FUCK YOU! Get away from my door, you self-righteous Jehovah's Witness. I only opened it in the first place because I thought someone had ordered a pizza. And yes, I'll talk to you once in a while mainly to entertain my friends sitting there on the couch. But, really, Shp, go fuck yourself, will you?

You are such a coward!

'MAYBE all the masters were legit and their followers fucked up....'

'MAYBE I'm depressed and hurting inside...blah, blah, blah.....'

'MAYBE Maharaji will never, ever answer for anything but that's just a test of your silly putty morality....'

You're a coward, Shp, because you don't have the guts to entertain any contrary hypotheses. Like, MAYBE, they weren't real 'masters' to begin with, MAYBE I'm not 'hurting inside (you pompous prick! You're no different than any other smug religious nut. Really, Shp, when was the last time YOU got down on YOUR knees and accepted Jesus into your heart? Asshole.)

And MAYBE Maharaji's abotu due to do some explaining, huh? Shp, I see others talk to you as if you deserve some respect and, know what? THAT makes me sick. You don't deserve it, not at all. Take this Jagdeo thing. You moan and whine about how much you care and empathize with gmom et al. Give me a fucking break! If you really cared it would sink in to you that one man and one man alone is responsible for keeping that creep on the ice. That's right, the coach. And you don't have the guts to stand up to him. Again, you and all the rest like you make me sick.

May God bless you Jim and open your eyes and heart inside whether or not
you ever go to church, synagogue, mosque or Maharaji ever again. Our
bodies are our temples. What is on your alter?
All the best,
Shp

Go preach to someone else, asshole.

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 19:07:08 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: new age cleans(w)er
Message:
Jim,

I was expecting an answer from you sooner or later, most likely later, about now, something to the effect of what you said. You waited while I conversed with some folks, you checked out where I was at and wound up your spin machine (brain) and let loose.

Yes, I've been to those expos and there are both sincere and phony people to be found, just like anywhere else. Take this Forum for example. I am a guest here. I have a rapport (ugh, you say) with some people here, which you cannot stand. Is this how you treat a guest? I haven't behaved unseemly or rude or lied or been phony, I just happen to be in your sights and you are going at me.
Go for it. Take your best shot. I have participated in trying to find answers as my conscience dictated, not as you demand. If you are not satisfied, what can I say? How about, I am not here on this earth for your pleasure or your approval.

You said: Secondly, some of them, perhaps most, actually believed their own bullshit. So they were conning themselves as much as anyone else,
You then said: Can't you read? I don't think it's fair to call people who believe their own bullshit con artists.
Make up your mind. Slow down. In your effort to rip me you are contrradicting yourself.

You are rigfht about one thing: you are entitled to your viewpoint.
You are preaching (from the Greek, to broadcast) just as much as I am, we just have different messages.

Tell you what: you can have the last word, blast me on the next reply and we'll call it a day. OK?

Shp

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 21:49:51 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: hypocrite
Message:
Yes, I've been to those expos and there are both sincere and phony people to be found, just like anywhere else.

You mean you're actually able to judge them?

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 22:22:25 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: hypocrite
Message:
You can tell a tree by its fruits.
That is different than judgement.
I am calling it a day with you now.
Set your traps for someone else please.
I am not here to mess around.
Locks horns with someone else.
Now eat my dust.
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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 23:07:37 (EDT)
From: Mr D
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: All
Subject: Usual stuff
Message:
I've just deleted the following post from The Great Worldwide Linkup. It seemed a shame to let you miss it. Actually, I thought it was a joke at first. I think I've posted too many spoof premie posts and now I think everyone's doing the same.

suriaganthy@tm.net.my
Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 06:00:29 (EDT)

My message: All the bad things written about Maharaji is bullshit and nonsense . People who have written bad things in the web site must be insane and should be send to a mental hospital . Maharaji is the Master of our time , so please use this great opportunity to realise the truth within us . Maharaji has never claimed himself to be god. Maharaji is sacrificing his time and energy to travel the whole world to reveal the knowledge which can only be done by a Great Master. So please don't contaminate the minds of innocent people.

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 16:20:24 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Mr D
Subject: She's right.
Message:
Hi Mr D,

She's right. I am insane and should be locked up. My wife and kids will support her on this one.

(Probably my brother, and most of my friends too.)

Anth the Suriag

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 22:58:12 (EDT)
From: chr
Email: None
To: All
Subject: the compassionate M
Message:
I have not been on the forum for quite some time, so maybe this has been answered. A while back somebody- it may have been URL- wrote that M had showed them infinite compassion over the years. I'm very curious as to how this compassion was shown. Was it a personal experience of something M did? Was it just some vague idea that M was responsible for any nice experiences you had? I spent a bit of time around M and he wasn't really known for his compassion. He was affectionate towards his children and he could be playful, but he showed very little interest in others or the world outside his own needs. He once showed an interest in a very violent premie during the deca days and personally phoned him to make some attempt at sorting his problems out. At one program a backstage security premie who I was coordinating, accidentally missed darshan. I told M and the premie was brought backstage to have his own brief, but personal darshan. So these two events, I guess could be called compassionate. But you weigh them up against the endless expectations of servitude, the broken families and people that resulted in many of the premies close to M, and these 2 siuations don't seem so glorious. The broken families etc I'm referring to are not the general premie breakups that could have happened with or without M, but the situatons that M knew about personally - premies who were around him and needed help or at least an understanding of their circumstances and how M's demands were affecting their wives/children etc.
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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 20:22:20 (EDT)
From: Larkin
Email: larkin@redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: All
Subject: Something in the air
Message:
For those who made Jai Satch'anand
Their only daily greeting
For those whose frantic social whirl
Was one more satsang meeting
For those who gave up everything
And all the dreams they planned out
For those who looked for light divine
And found an ambient bland-out
For those who came like sleepwalkers
With hearts and minds sincere
For those sho sought the love supreme
But found a panacaea
For those who gave their cash to buy
His houses, plane and car too
For those who succumbed in the night
To Prem Pal Nosferatu

For those whose eyes saw through his lies
(To him you don't mean tuppence)
And wait with bated breath to see
The fraud get his comeuppance
For those who knew for years just
satsangservicemeditation
For those who tell it clearly now
With righteous indignation
For those who forwent fish and fowl
And meat and lust and pleasure
For those who crapped on near and dear
For one elusive treasure
For those whose years of practice
Left them feeling robbed and cheated
Now wait for dawn to see the vampire
Finally unseated

For those still twingeing from the guilt
Of the neglectful mother,
Father, brother, sister, friend
Or the unfaithful lover
For those who long to shift that guilt
From their own weary shoulder
For those whose wisdom came so late
- are now two decades older
For those whose thoughts they echo mine
(I'll be your friend forever)
Who know that love and laughter
Are the only earthly treasure
For those whose friends met tragic ends
In suicide or breakdown
And await Van Helsing to come by
To whack that final stake down...

...Take heart, there's something in the air
The end might soon be coming
The stockades rise, but much too late
D'you see those hotshots running
To their lawyers; drafting threats
In nervous language uttered?
As rats desert the sinking ship
Which side is their bread buttered?
JC has seen it in the stars
And done a Simon Peter
(There weren't no holy paedophiles
In Vedas or the Gita.)
Who will stand by Prem Rawat
When he's the leading witness
And has to testify in court
- Is probably scared shitless -

Admitting that he washed his hands
Of what his saints were doing?
And if these claims are libellous
Then how come no-one's suing?

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 15:44:43 (EDT)
From: People's Poet
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Re: Something in the air
Message:
Hey there Larkin'
what a joy,
to these those fine words here.

They're on the run,
we're having fun,
at least that much is clear.

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 23:39:43 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Darling buds of May
Message:
Dear Larkin,

You are a wonderful poet. Your words go very deep. You understand the feeling of the ex & premie masses.

As Mr. Larkin in the Darling Buds of May would say:

PERFIC!

Love,

Liz

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 22:57:46 (EDT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Re: Something in the air
Message:
There used to be a sixties song called Something in the Air. A very good revolutionary-utopian song
.
Many youngsters are utopian. That's good. Although it turned out bad for some of us. If you know what I mean.

Prem Pal Rawat
A very simple name
Andif you really look at it
It's a very simple game.

First appeal to longing
Longing for relief
Then tell everybody
There's a simple road to peace.

Peace is hard to argue
Simplicity is cool
Just give me some guidelines
Just give me some rules.

And once you've got me signed up
Promise me the gold.
I'll be so very happy,
Once I'm in the fold.

Sheeps are happy.

I want to be happy, too.

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 20:52:01 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Larkin
Subject: Love ya Larkin! :)
Message:
Hey, did I resend you some pictures, can't remember, I meant to. They WILL work now!
Love,
me
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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 20:12:34 (EDT)
From: Forum Member
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Shp returns!
Message:
For all those who are interested, Shp has made a post in the thread started by Enough below.

So Shp, did M ever respond to your email about Jagdeo?

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 21:28:03 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Forum Member
Subject: Re: Shp returns!
Message:
No.
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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 16:16:44 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Hi Sandy.
Message:
Hi sandy,

One thing I've noticed in the midst of this Jagdeo affair, is how the premies are reacting. I already put a post somewhere about the premies in Cornwall, who know one of the victims well. They're right behind Jagdeo being brought to justice. It's reassuring to know that you feel the same way.

I had a funny perspective on the affair recently. It's like I'm trying to clear up a mess that was made 25 years ago, and nobody's bothered to do anything about.

Anyway Sandy, it's good to know we're on the same side on this one. I've said it a few times, worrying whether Maharaji knew or not seems to miss the point. Jagdeo is the culprit. The sooner he is brought to justice the better.

And I'm not going to shut up until he is.

Imagine, a terrible assault happens to a small child.

The child tells adults who she trusts. Nobody does anything about it. What is that telling the child about the world she lives in? That it's ok to do this sort of thing?

Well, to their immense credit, these children haven't stopped asking someone to take some notice for 25 years. They've grown up into strong women, and they've still got something to settle with the scumbag.

So, say a prayer and pass the ammunition, because they have my full, total, absolute, support on this Sandy. And I know they've got yours too.

Thanks,

Anth the Stubborn

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 16:32:23 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Hi Sandy.
Message:
Anth,

Nice to be outed for a change!
Time for the grownups to stick up for the children, simple as that.
If we don't who will?

I have had conversations with friends and fellow workers about what we would do with someone who had molested one of our kids if we got our hands on them before the authorities did. After the initial urge to smash their heads in would pass, I thought of having such a person lobotomized, castrated and sent to highly supervised work area in a recycling center or pick up garbage on the highway or something and have to live away from civilization in very simple digs out in the country behind high fences, simple diet, simple basic needs, that's it. So they would be giving something back to society, but could not hurt another kid ever. I had other ideas, but not for print now.

Keep in touch,
Sandy

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 12:37:15 (EDT)
From: Jerry
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Woe, hypocrite!
Message:
Here's Sandy in his 'Easier said than done' post, in his preachy best:

In all actions I will learn to search into my mind
And as soon a disturbing emotion arises
Endangering myself and others,
I will firmly face and avert it.

Here is how Sandy thinks pedaphiles should be dealt with:

After the initial urge to smash their heads in would pass, I thought of having such a person lobotomized, castrated and sent to highly supervised work area in a recycling center or pick up garbage on the highway or something and have to live away from civilization in very simple digs out in the country behind high fences, simple diet, simple basic needs, that's it. So they would be giving something back to society, but could not hurt another kid ever. I had other ideas, but not for print now.

Preach to yourself, first, big guy. When you learn to live what you preach, maybe you'll have something to say to the rest of us.

Maybe not.
Jerry

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 14:10:49 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Jerry
Subject: Re: Woe, hypocrite!
Message:
Jerry,

I posted the eight verses for the mutual benefit of everyone who is trying to connect across some very strong emotions about some very deep-seated things. I did not post the eight verses to try to gain any moral high ground or come off holier-than-thou. It was for all concerned, myself included. I never said I had it all together, or even implied it. It is a goal. I am sorry if I offended you by making that post. Seems that whenver I say something to bring more light into the conversation, I am accused of preaching. How convenient for you.

Respectfully recognizing the divinity within you,
Shp

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 16:46:52 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: Hi Sandy.
Message:
Hi again,

I didn't mean to out you, but I think you signed one of your above posts with your name.

Take care,

Anth the Anthony James Wesley (oops, outed myself now)

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 16:58:27 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Hi Sandy.
Message:
Anth,
Just joking about being outed. Wasn't referring to my name, I already posted that a long time ago.
Outed by the fact that we agree on something
Lo and behold.
Sandy, sincerely seeking sanity surrounding sick sircumstances stated sunday in siberspace
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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 17:41:06 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Agreeing about things.
Message:
Hi shp,

I think we agree on lots of things.

And I get a feeling that in a while we'll agree on even more.

Anth the Libran.

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 17:51:04 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Agreeing about things.
Message:
Anth,

Keeping both eyes open and both hands on the wheel.

Sandy the 3X Aries trying to live the opposite astrological inclinations in order to attain the balance

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 00:53:54 (EDT)
From: Forum Member
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: No reply re: Jagdeo
Message:
Are you reading the recent developments in the forum? How do you feel about the lack of response? How do you feel about the written denial that M was ever told about Jagdeo?
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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 02:23:49 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: mcpass1@earthlink.net
To: Forum Member
Subject: Re: No reply re: Jagdeo
Message:
1) On the regular Forum 4, yes I have been reading just a day or so.

2) How do I feel: I don't like being ignored or seeing someone with a legitimate gripe be ignored.
The Master-student relationship I am in urges me to have patience and not judge the situation now.
I know how repulsive that may sound to you, but some things some of the exers say are repulsive to me as well. Mutual respect for those of us who are pro and con about Maharaji and yet are willing to communicate peacefully may help increase the chances of bringing the truth to light, which is what we both want. We know, both premie and ex-premie, how it feels to approach Maharaji with a question. We have given him so much authority in our lives (premies still do, exsers don't) that if he answers or doesn't answer, I as a premie want to believe and know that there has to be a reason for his actions or inaction, and that it is based on his love for us. I fully understand how ludicrous this may sound to many of you. Nevertheless, it is the way all of us have lived at one time or another, and how some of us are still trying to operate, despite the apparent outrageous contradictions. Bottom line about how I feel is shitty to know that even one sister of mine in Knowledge got abused by a Mahatma and nothing has been said or done about it. I hope that there is a resolution to it for everybody's sake.

3) This is the first I am hearing about the written denial. May I see it, and if so where? Is there anyone who actually witnessed the transmission of the information about Jagdeo directly to Maharaji? I know I have read about the information being given to a trusted premie in his inner circle to pass on, but is there a direct observer to the fact? I am not being difficult with you, I just happen to be from Missouri, and all my life I have remembered the state motto: 'Show me.' I do recall someone, g's mom I think, who said that Maharaji asked about Jagdeo and his problem after the fact of a previous event, something like asking if he was better or something. But did he know the extent of the problem, or just a glossed-over version of it handed to him by someone who was trying to keep him out of it?

I also feel that I am curious to know, what would satisfy you collectively and individually about Jagdeo? Do you want him imprisoned? Do you want an acknowledgement of wrongdoing and an apology from him? From Maharaji? From an authorized representative? What do you want?
And if the Jagdeo matter got straightened out in some incredible way and Jagdeo apologized and was put away somehwere away from kids and Maharaji personally expressed his heartfelt compassion directly to g's mom and the others for the terrible experiences, now knowing their true extent (assuming he doesn't already), what then?

Sincerely,
Shp

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 09:33:36 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: No reply Jagdeo
Message:
Dear Shp,
Hi, personally I think Jagdeo should be shuffled through the legal system and made to bear the consequences for his actions there as his actions were and still are criminal. The thing that I can't get out of my mind is the number of children that could have been hurt by this monster in saint's clothing. In the clips of the emails that Jim posted it is stated that a group of children were made to lay, heads together in a circle. I have such a sick feeling in my gut that there could be many hundrends of children over the years and the world over.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 03:03:15 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: No reply Jagdeo
Message:
Shp, How do you interpret uour not getting a reply from M re: Jagdeo?
As far as I know he has never replied to anyone on the subject.
What does his silence say?
It says 'i am beyond any of this', 'I am THE one'..etc etc.

Your post demonstrates well the real sickness of the master-student relationship people are in with him(not just you).

I feel pretty sure that you would not accept this behaviour from anyone else.

People like you give him too much latitude, that's why 'masters' like him exist. No students.. no masters. If fact, I remeber him saying it once that without premies there would be no master.

You 'students'are as respomsible as he is and believe me he won't be there to pick you up when the time comes. He'll be fleeing the flames with his family leaving the premies to take the heat.

Jethro

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 10:20:18 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: mcpass1@earthlink.net
To: Jethro
Subject: Re: No reply Jagdeo
Message:
Jethro,
I have abstained from interpreting it. As you said, I have given him alot (you said too much) latitude.
I don't know exactly what his silence says. It could be saying say alot of things. I know it doesn't feel good and it pushes the limits of my understanding, latitude and all, as to why the matter has reached this point without resolution.

No offense taken about the master-student relationship comment. I am not here to protect my ego.

You are correct about my not accepting this behavior from anyone else. It's that latitude thing.
You spelled 'behaviour' with a 'u', so does that mean you are British?

Yes, I remember him saying that without premies there would be no master.

I believe in one man, one karma, that each one of us is responsible for our own thoughts, words, and actions. I also believe in grace, which lightens my load whenever I act consciously. I did not learn this from Maharaji, and I don't mean to be preaching. I am trying to respond to your remark about responsibility.

I for one can tell you that this is not a premie vs ex-premie issue. It goes beyond that.

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 11:38:52 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: No reply Jagdeo
Message:
'I for one can tell you that this is not a premie vs ex-premie issue. It goes beyond that. '
Several of my former premie friends no longer speak with me because I asked them to check the jagdeo business out for me.

This IS because of their relationship with M.

Jethro

PS I also spell colour correctly

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 16:15:56 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Re: No reply Jagdeo
Message:
So Jethro, does this mean that 'U' are the Forum Administrator?
Did 'U' give it away?
No biggie, I still respect you.
Sandy
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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 12:30:10 (EDT)
From: gmom
Email: None
To: all and SHP
Subject: interesting points here
Message:
SHP-I have always felt you are doing your best to be compassionate on this issue but the issue makes you work terribly hard searching for excuses and rationalizations for how to protect Rawat. I am especialy troubled by the implication that if we did not see Rawat get the info it may not have happened. Recall, that I have independant, unsolicited, corroberation from the second person I told that the first had told Rawat. I personally know Rawat was told because of this. I wish sometimes that you and others like you, who I sense are really trying to be fair as best they can, could meet me, I think if you did you would let go of your doubts about my veracity. I do think it is possible that Rawat confronted Jagdeo about this in some way. But whatever he did was not enough, becuase Jagdeo continued to tour and communities were never warned about him.

Robyn Thank you so much for all your supportive posts. That feeling you had when you read Jim's post is the same feeling I have. Recall that in my journey I descibe what my friend told me when Jagdeo groped us. That two years previous he had molested her in a more serious way, which was similar to what was posted by Jim, right down to the candies. However, she was alone. But, she told me that three other kids we both knew in 1975, also had some level of problem with Jagdeo, for they said he was 'nasty' and avoided his company after initially enjoying the status of sitting as his feet looking angelic during satsangs. All of this is important for two reasons, #1 From the first time I knew about this I knew that I was not the only one. #2 I relayed, via the initiators who were ones that were very close with free contact to Rawat, what had happened to me but also that my friend had had a worse experience at a younger age, and there was suspicion that several other kids had also...two years earlier. Rawat had good reason to know this was not some sort of one time lapse.

We all recall the touring schedule of a Mahatma, week in Miami, week in Gainesville, off to Atlanta. off for a week, Boston, Denver, the rest of the US....then maybe to Europe. This is an absolutley perfect setup for this creep. Even if Rawat did scold him, and I do not know if he even did that, any sane person would have to take him out of the situation in which he had access to new kids every few weeks.

So we now KNOW he was doing the same thing in Europe. We do not merely suspect it.

I am really sickened by all of this. How I wish I could turn back time and go to my mom and the police instead of telling Rawat.

Jethro- sad about your premie friends. I imagine that your friends do not speak to you because they did check it out, found out it was true, and that talking to you would make them face things they do not want to face.

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 16:59:28 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: gmom
Subject: Re: interesting points here
Message:
gmom,

I wrote an e-mail to Maharaji on your behalf. I got no answer. I read your posts about how you wish you had done it differently and spoken up, but you were so young and you kept quiet. ( I have urged you to let go of the guilt.) You thought you were protecting your Master and his mission at the time, and in your heart you believed that you were doing the right thing, and that is what counts.

There is one more thing I have not done yet:
As a premie, a lover, I want to allow the love inside me to speak. I give my personal most heartfelt apology and healing energy from my heart to yours and the others who were so mistreated by a trusted member of an organization of which I too am a member. These are not just words. I know I am not the person you were looking for an apology from, but I just felt that a little more love manifesting couldn't hurt. I hope you feel reading this what I felt writing it.

Love from your brother human who is being,
Shp

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 23:01:18 (EDT)
From: Gmom
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: thanks SHP
Message:
I have to admit I squirm a bit when you still call yourself a premie. I am starting to care about you and when I care about someone I do not want them to belong to what I believe is a cult. However, I really do appreciate the sincere kindness you are showing. SHP, please look long and hard to see if your guru shows the kind of heart you are showing on this issue. I am not saying that in an argumentative way; I say that because you really do appear to have a bigger heart than he does.
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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 23:31:39 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Gmom
Subject: Re: thanks SHP
Message:
gmom,

I have found it difficult to practice, watch tapes or go to programs since hearing about this whole matter and that goes back a ways. True, practicing Knowledge still makes me feel very good, but the triangle includes me, Knowledge and Maharaji. I have a problem with that, have not gotten feedback about it, yet remain hopeful for a resolution to the whole matter. I have listened to many satsangs about love, common sense, how a good father looks after his children, how we need to let our kids know we are on their side, not a leaf or bird falls without etc etc.

I just keep thinking what would I do about this and how would I feel if I were a member of your immediate family, because in God's way I am. I would not rest until there was some sort of closure to make you feel better and renew you faith in life and humainity and the God of Love. If Maharaji truly said that the greatest thing he gave us was each other (I heard that he said this), then it is incumbent upon us to watch out for each other.

Call me sentimental. That would be a step up from what others here call me, just mental. hohoho
A sense of humor is a sign of sanity, some wacko told me so.

Your brother in species and spirit,
Shp

So for now this is where I am at and I can live with it for now. I have sincere hope that there is more than meets the eye to this and hope that it is not all as bad about Maharaji as many here would like it to, for various private agendas and vendettas. As for Jagdeo, I hope that he is in right actrion (and I don't know exactly what that is) disciplined, kept away from children, healed, and someday forgiven by all those he hurt, not only for his sake, but for the sake of those he hurt, that the loop of anger and fear may be broken, not to repeatr itself in this group of people ever again, this taking the pain outr of the universe and raising it up to a higher place.

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Date: Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 06:41:00 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: thanks SHP
Message:
'If Maharaji truly said that the greatest thing he gave us was each other (I heard that he said this), then it is incumbent upon us to watch out for each other. '

Well he did say that cause I heard him.
When he was asked once 'Which time of a past perfect master is your favourite?' he aswerd 'Krishna, because in that age the devotees loved each other with same love that they loved Him'.
Yes Shp, he has said some most beautiful and inspiring things......he knows just what to say...but does he live it? NO.
He a fucking hypocrite, he has always treated people like crap and premies give him that latitude(as you have said) because of who they believe he is. You are wasting your life. Forget about triangles and get the fuck out of there....at least give it a try.
If you really want to know waht clarity is get Rowatt out of your head.

Jethro

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Date: Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 02:05:07 (EDT)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Jethro
Subject: Re: thanks SHP
Message:
'Yes Shp, he has said some most beautiful and inspiring things......he knows just what to say...but does he live it? NO. He has always treated people like crap'

Sorry Jethro, I beg to differ. Not only has Maharaji said countless beautiful and inspiring things but I have seen him over many years treating people with great wisdom, delight, mischief, and awareness of their situations, especially in private and not broadcast like Jerry Lewis Telethons. Your statement sounds like it comes from a great distance, soured over time and diminished with the frankly warped perspective I keep encountering on this page.

You're not speaking about Maharaji, the actual character in a body who affects many, many people...most for, in their estimation, the greatest good. You're speaking about a sort of boogeyman that's been manifested in the collective unconscious(ness) of this page by a few frustrated people, period. Try to separate the two and see if you have any recollection of the actual guy Maharaji and how he felt to you. Not the right bastard usher at Wembley, the power-mad assistant pastry chef at Amaroo or even the perverted ex-mahatma. You might find that he has precious little to do with the great ills of humanity that you and others have attributed to him. Perhaps it's just impossible to remember. It'd at least be an interesting experiment.

best to you, Barbara

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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 00:20:47 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: Barbara
Message:
Barbara,

Just below on this thread Jim lets loose with some raw stuff. Please don't let it stop you from addressing my request in the post below next to Jim's. I'd really like to reach a real resolution (not just a legalese press release) to the Jagdeo thing, for the victim's sake, for their families' sake, for everyone here's sake, for my sake, for Heaven's sake, literally. You sound like you may have some information.

Shp

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Date: Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 23:33:57 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: Re: thanks SHP
Message:
Hi Barbara,

OK, I can relate to everything you have said and I can feel the truth and strength of it.
And despite all the accusations, I remain a premie up to now.

So if you can please help me out here, with all due respect, along with alot of other folks who have various feelings about Maharaji over this particular matter of Jagdeo. Some simple and straight answers can remove alot of pain and suffering from alot of people, most of which were devoted to Maharaji when the pain and suffering were inflicted by one of his trusted assistants. It is pretty obvious that the man was very sick and did the things that he has been accused of. It has been alleged that Maharaji was told, and that certainly a few of his inner circle were told about it. Yet Jagdeo was allowed told roam the world in service and do his sick misdeeds for years before he was taken out of commission. And nobody here knows if he still has access to kids or what. I for one am very uncomfortable knowing that even one of my premie sisters was molested at an early age by a mahatma who was allowed to continue his world tour for years after it was reported and may still be at large. I am asking you sincerely to shed some light on this if you can. Thank you.

Shp

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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 03:06:27 (EDT)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: thanks SHP
Message:
Hi Shp,

I don't know what happened. If Jagdeo was up to something it certainly wasn't common knowledge. If he was, then of course, it's horrible. All I can tell you, from my own 1st hand experience (so much of what you read here is anything but that. I was around at the time and noone, repeat noone said as much as a grunt about Jagdeo being weird in any but the quite obvious ways that he was. This at a time when I was in situations to suss that so-and-so mahatma was demahatmaed for doing such-and-such off-the wall thing for doing what amounts to chickenfeed (by any standard) compared to what this man seems to have been up to. This isn't the Mafia, for God's sake, premies, including at that time, gossip and bullshit as much as anyone I've ever met! This tells me that the way this is being read on this page is completely off.

People say they tell Maharaji things all the time...that doesn't necessarily mean they do it. It's sad, but true. That's why I've always felt that if something really important enough has come up, you request a visit. A sad fact of human life is that things often get screwed up between 3rd parties. When I've needed to, I've asked and been given the time to check in with Mr. Ji and he's responded very personally to me and many, many people I know...and I know this happens all over the place....with people of all kinds...and many not within 2 continents of a checkbook.

To the readership: Is anybody actually suggesting that Maharaji supports or condones child-molestation here? Really ?!? When 1/4 of the mahatmas you name above in your Trivial Pursuit were 'banished' because they didn't keep to a high standard of behavior? Are you serious? Get real! If you have a shred of honesty in you you'll acknowledge that Maharaji has always gotten on, in a rare way, and to a highly-developed degree, with children and not just his own, by the way. Anyone in any town he's spent time with, (and here you should feel a wee bit o' shame, Anth the Over Compensating, for having seen Maharaji interacting with kids.) Take a look at yourself and, for one moment, get over how clever you are.

Bring it to the authorities? Abso-fuckin'-lutely! Blame Maharaji for it 20 years later? That's pretty odd, pretty desperate and pretty mis-motivated.. Give your own histories some credit and realize that there were/are (too much of a strettccchhhh) many amazing things about this character. I doubt most of you ascribed such exceptional, god-like qualities to every person you met? And if someone had walked up to you and said, 'Fly to Durban (Melbourne, Brussels, Mauritius, Accra, Philadelphia) and I'll try to see you there.' You'd have gone there? For how many people you've met in your long, wacky lives would you do that? And for 12, 21, 29, 37 years? And after that much time you'd come to this conclusion?

Something's clearly missing in this picture.

P.S. to all Re: Jagdellegations: In the long run, if that kind of behavior is stopped, it'll have been worth it. But it's always good to aim your arrows accurately and Maharaji is absolutely the wrong target. If you don’t remember, fathom or cop to his love and concern, that doesn’t mean it isn’t or wasn't there.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 08:43:57 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: mcpass1@earthlink.net
To: Barbara
Subject: Re: thanks SHP
Message:
Barbara,

When I heard about this months ago, I did my part to find out by e-mailing Maharaji and got no response from him or any of his assistants. I could have done more (or less), but I did what I did to help. Seemed like they had it covered over here, and I wanted to show solidarity between premies and ex-premies (names names names, we are all homo sapiens, for God's sake) over this issue that is common to all of us.

I find it extremely hard, if not impossible, to believe that Maharaji personally knew and did nothing. I find it less hard to believe that those close who knew either concealed or watered down the facts for whatever reason and nothing was done, and Jag ran roughshod over more kids until he was finally busted. But then I remember that Maharaji is all those 'omni's', including omniscient. Is all type omni stuff just a hype? This would have been a great time to use some of that omnipower to flush out Jag and protect the kids.

Perhaps gmom wasn't the only one involved who was:
1) young, innocent and inexperienced in the handling of worldly matters like this one
2) concerned about protecting the Master and his mission
3) freaked out by the whole thing

Know what I mean? Maybe Maharaji's entourage that knew (per gmom) were in the same church, differnet pew. And they just hoped real hard it would go away but it didn't. This is not an excuse, but perhaps an explanation. For now it is just my own conjecture. But an international organization with a mission like this one needs to be 'wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove' (per Jesus Chirst) from the getgo to maintain credibility in a time like this, to know the ways of the world and be able to deal in it. the lotus, remember? Be above the shit? As Jag went around talking the talk, but not walking the walk. With no failsafes on him, he was contaminating the children, the little lotus buds, who would grow up with bent stems, always having to be reminded about the filth from which they came, and not having a clear view of the sun and the sky. They need a healing and words of comfort form whoever was directly or indirectly responsible for this whole fiasco, and have their stems healed so thier vision is sunny and bright, no more shadows following them, like the old premie song says. Not a legal summary or document, there is a time and place for that. But the human side must, for God's sake, be addressed. 'Suffer the little children to come unto me, for such is the kingdom of Heaven'.

If this had happened to you or one of your loved ones, and you knew it really did occur, what would you do about it? This is how I am trying to proceed, as if it was my own flesh and blood that this happened to, for that is how I feel in my heart that God wants us to be with each other. Kind of changes things and messes up schedules, makes me spend more time in cyberspace away from my other responsibilities, but sometimes life is messy and we just have to clean it up. I have a burden on my heart to follow up with this, I did not choose it. And following my heart feels right inside.

OK, Barbara, I hope to hear from you soon about this.

Shp

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Date: Thurs, Sep 09, 1999 at 05:16:33 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: OK, so tell us please
Message:
So why don't you tell us the reasons why ALL the Indian mahatmas have been fired this year ?
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Date: Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 02:33:44 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: Hey, Barb
Message:
Forget the usher, chef or mahatma. How about the guru who warned me that my mind was poison, that the world was a web of maya waiting to suck me in, that my life was meaningful only to the extent that I surrendered it lock, stock and barrel when all the while he was fucking not one but who knows how many guru sluts like his wife?

Oh, sorry, did I say something wrong? Ooops!

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 13:53:57 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: gmom
Subject: Re: interesting points here
Message:
SHP-I have always felt you are doing your best to be compassionate on this issue but the
issue makes you work terribly hard searching for excuses and rationalizations for how to
protect Rawat.

g's mom - I am not trying to protect him. If he is who is says he is, he doesn't need my protection. If he is not who he says he is, I would not want to protect him. My common sense tells me that trying to protect him is a wasted motion. I am interested in a resolution to this for your sake and the sake of all the others, past present and possibly future.

I am especialy troubled by the implication that if we did not see Rawat get the info it may not have happened. Recall, that I have independant, unsolicited, corroberation from the second person I told that the first had told Rawat. I personally know Rawat was told because of this. I wish sometimes that you and others like you, who I sense are really trying to be fair as best they can, could meet me, I think if you did you would let go of your doubts about my veracity.

I can feel you in between the lines you write, and it's not the same as live but I can relate.
I never doubted your veracity. I just want to separate circumstantial evidence, no matter how damning, from fact.

I do think it is possible that Rawat confronted Jagdeo about this in some way. But whatever he did was not enough, becuase Jagdeo continued to tour and communities were never warned about him.

I understand what you are saying. I have no defenses or answers or explanations for this sad turn of events.

Perhaps I should explain why I am here again. I was cleaning out my e-mail box and came across an ex-premie's note to me from the past. This particular ex-premie and I could talk about this whole mess without getting angry at each other when I used to come around some months ago, so I sent him a greeting and he updated me a little about how he is getting demonized at EV while I was/am(?) getting demonized here. I also had contact with another premie who used to come here who said that my name was being used like Keith's used to, in the most negative light to describe the worst traits premies have. So naturally I was curious and I began to just observe. Then when I read Jim's blanket statement slamming just about every teacher who ever walked the earth, I felt compelled to respond, but not go all over like I used to. I want to be clear, concise and just be passing through, not get hung up with personalities and wear out whatever little welcome you have so graciously offered me to be here as your guest. Just passing through does not necessarily mean that it is a shallow connection or that I don't care. Some of my deepest relationships are with folks I hardly ever see, and some of my shallowest are with folks who I see every day. I don't plan it this way, it just happens like this sometimes. Can you understand what I am saying?

At the same time all this is happening here, I recently discovered a connection between the Lycos search engine, Carnegie Mellon University which owns the Lycos registered trademark, and that Lycos hosts an adult site which is a major portal to anything and everything pornographic on the internet. I have personally seen photos of young girls who were most definitely minors posted on this site. My work involves public access to the internet and protecting the public and ourselves from hate and porno sites showing up on our kiosks. I check out websites from time to time for professional purposes and have no personal interest in child porn. Our company is constantly adding websites to our Netblock list, as some have figured out how to avoid the standard keywords and not get blocked the first time around.

As a result of my findings, I have sent a letter to the editor of a major newspaper in my area and plan to go beyond just one, to point out the connection between a university that bears the names of Carnegie and Mellon, considered to be two major pillars of 20th century America. Carnegie was a steel magnate, richest man on earth at one time, and a mjor builder of the US public library system. Carnegie Hall was and is considered by the dominant social order to be the epitomy of success if you did your gig there. Are they having trouble paying the rent on it so they have to resort to becoming smut peddlers? Mellon was a banker (extreme understatement), and the Secretary of the Treasury under three US presidents. They are both long gone and now those who use their name are allowing the worst form of filth onto the internet via a site under their authority. And they disavow any responsibility for what shows up on their site. I am up against the just about the oldest and biggest money in America, and their lawyers are paid millions to keep stuff like this quiet. So we hear a different drummer, but we are marching in the same direction.

I did not ask for this. It came to me. I have to do something about it so that I can face myself in the mirror when I brush my teeth or wash my face. As the charismatics say, I had a burden placed on my heart by the Holy Spirit to act. (No, I am not a charismatic.)

I look forward with hope to a resolution and a healing for you and all the others in right action.
Sandy

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 15:15:50 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: interesting points here
Message:
Dear Sandy,
You seem like a good person to me and I wish you all the best. You seem to try hard to face some hard truths and to push past the easy way out. I know others here don't agree with me and I never read all your posts but every time I have you have come across this way to me. For me, I am glad to have caught you passing through.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 15:47:44 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: interesting points here
Message:
Robyn,

Thank you for the kind words. Life is not a peer pressure playground unless we accept it as such.
In the most favorable of circumstances, we all finally realize at some point that we have to make up our own minds about things and people we encounter in our lives with our own personal set of divinely designed and embedded powers of discernment, which must be exercised to work well.

I sincerely hope and pray that this whole mess with Jagdeo reaches a mutually satisfactory closure for all involved, and that each person involved gets what he or she needs to heal, grow and continue on their individual journey in better shape than they are now.

Sandy

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 14:15:47 (EDT)
From: gmom
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: SHP
Message:
I think you are brave and great to do the work you are doing against the Carnegie Mellon and child pornography connection. It is really scary to try to get justice against a big organization that seems so pwerful compared to us as individuals. But as you say, it gets hard to live with yourself if you do not do the right thing.

I appreciate what I see as the compassion and caring in your posts. Obviously, because the guru so well insulates himself from direct contact with premies he also in a way insulates himself from responsibilty for decisions he makes ( or doesn't make ). His inner circle is pretty small. In fact it is pretty amazing that I have the corroberation I do that he was told. I didn't plan it as a trap, I was just afraid if I told her that I had already reported it once she would go to the person who first reported it instead of Rawat and I wanted to make sure he had been told.

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 15:08:23 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: gmom
Subject: Re: SHP
Message:
g's mom,

When I read your post above, the song came to mind, and I can't remember all the words:

'Oh and it's alright
Once you get past the pain
dadadadadadadada
.....keep your heart open
'cause love will find a way.'

How you reacted when it happened to you was the best you had and you gave it. Let go of your guilt about it. You were a kid, for Christ's sake! You did the best you could with what you had. Who could ask for or expect anything more? I bank on the saying that the Lord looks on the heart, meaning he considers the motive as the primary thing to be judged. So even if our actions are screwed up, I trust that it is our motive which is pre-eminent to our souls and to the Creator.

I went through alot before i committed to busting Lycos and Carnegie Mellon University to a newspaper. I have to believe in God here and realize that evil flourishes where good people do nothing, and I want to be a positive force in the world. And yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil.... That takes a certain amount of action besides just the wish to be good. But in all this, I feel no personal ego trip, I feel like I am being used like an instrument to fix something in the world. No voices telling me shit, don't worry....

I am reminded of the satsang Maharaji gave in Montrose about the good father who would not let his child go into a fire....and another satsang about common sense being the most uncommon thing. The wisdom of those two satsangs has some of the answers to how this matter can be resolved, even at this late date, even though there has been injury done already, more can be prevented if it isn't being already, and wrongs can be righted. Not for revenge, but for closure and emotional healing and the protection of more kids in the future. Then there is the satsang he gave about certain positives and negatives 'go with the territory' in any given situation, as in having celibate initiators travel the world and help him propogate, there will be a percentage according to the law of averages and large numbers, of pedophiles in there, based on historical numbers from other organizations with a priesthood of sorts. There is such a thng as preventive maintenence, tell tale signs, etc. Jagdeo and other initiators hung out together. (No one in that small elite group saw or picked up on any weird disturbing vibes from Jagdeo to share with Maharaji?) It (child abuse) historically 'goes with the territory' of celibate priesthoods and should be dealt with accordingly and in a timely fashion to maintain trust and good will with not only the injured parties, but the general population of premies and beyond to the world at large. I have no defense or explanation for how this all went down. I just don't get why it manifested as it did. From my kindest viewpoint, I see that I am from one culture which sees things a certain way, in a world of other cultures which may see the same thing differently, as in how to manage an out-of-control pedophiliac Mahatma. But that is no excuse and I don't present it here to be one.

God help us all,
Sandy

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 13:29:31 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: gmom
Subject: Re: interesting points here
Message:
Dear g's mom,
Thank you for your post. I do really hope that this matter can be taken through to completion and in the least stop that creep from harming more children. You just know it goes beyond the US and even England. I am sure it happened wherever he went.
The other thing I want to say to you though, and I've read other tell you the same, is that you were a child and you did the best you could do. I am sure in your shoes I would feel the same, want to go back and change the way I had handled it but you can't and you are no more at fault than you concider any of the children that this happened/happens to still today. I know you don't hold any of them more or even equally responsible than you hold yourself. None of you are responsible. It is that man and any other adult including M that are responsible and it is beyond me how any of them can sleep at night never mind concider themselves spiritual persons knowing they are letting this man permanently scare hundreds of children.
Take good care dear.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 14:17:31 (EDT)
From: gmom
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: interesting points here
Message:
Robyn, What you say is a really helpful way of looking at it. No, if it were someone else I would not blame them like I can blame myself when I think about it.

Thanks very much.

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 15:09:03 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: gmom
Subject: Re: interesting points here
Message:
Dear G's mom,
Well that is very rewarding to me, to have helped you relieve some of your guilt.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 23:24:29 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: Shp
Subject: Thanks SHP
Message:
Thanks for your email you sent to me a few months ago after my Mother died. I meant to reply but it's on my old computer somewhere and I don't have your email address to hand.

It was a very kind email which I appreciated very much.

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 00:13:59 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: mcpass1@earthlink.net
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: Thanks SHP
Message:
Sir Dave,
I hope that you are feeling better.
Shp
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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 13:51:37 (EDT)
From: Forum member
Email: None
To: All
Subject: New Forum Administrator
Message:
ATTENTION FORUM FOUR PARTICIPANTS: There is a new Forum Administrator and Assistant. The guidelines about posting private information, abuse and harrassment continue as before. There are two immediate objectives: a clear statement about the purpose and function of Forumfour, and clear guidelines for posting. Suggestions are welcome. Please inform the Forum Administrator of any offensive post. Thank you for your support and help.
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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 18:30:11 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Forum member
Subject: New Guidelines?
Message:
Are you referring to this post describing guidelines which I posted Friday, August 27?

'The guidelines from Forum 3 have been carried over with slight changes. The unwritten policy for Forum 4 has been less tolerant of premies posting spam or giving satsang, for example. We don't object to premies being here, but this is not the place to air your views about the greatness of your master. We ask that you remember that you are guests.

We are considering extending the existing ban on threats to include verbally abusive behavior.

We want Forum 4 to be a central meeting place for exes all over the world. No ex-premie should feel unwelcome, unless they are unable to show a modicum of respect for the ex-premies who post here.

What this means is that if you think this is BS, you should criticize the proposed guidelines rather than insult me personally.

We're not looking to bust anyone. The guidelines would be equally applied to anyone.'

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 20:15:47 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Understood
Message:
I wasn't anticipating any insults from you. That was quoted from the original guidelines posting of Aug. 27.

I guess something is lost in posting anonymously. Using the example of an insult in the text was my way of keeping things lively, although that doesn't seem to be much of a problem.

I look forward to seeing the guidelines and haven't felt comfortable posting without any. Deleted posts have not always been based on the criteria described by you.

I also appreciate the right to criticize or discuss forum policy. Brian didn't like this (although plenty of it took place). In Brian's case, I thought this was fair because he simply put so much work into the forum. I don't think people really understand how much Brian and Katie put into it.

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 20:20:58 (EDT)
From: Forum Member
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Re: Understood
Message:
Thanks for your thanks. Talk to the Administrator, or post your comments about proposed guidelines here. I am not in a position to do anything.
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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 19:04:30 (EDT)
From: Forum Member
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: Re: New Guidelines?
Message:
I have absolutely no intention of insulting you now or ever as I very much appreciate your contributions here. I cannot answer this question. Please email Forum Administration with your question and thank you for your inquiry.
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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 15:56:11 (EDT)
From: Hihomumio
Email: None
To: Forum member
Subject: Re: New Forum Administrator
Message:
Thanks so much for the info. What happened to Gerry? He seemed to be doing a good job of taking care of us. Tired of the problems administering this site?

Seems like anonymous is the way to go for that job...

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 21:06:19 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Hihomumio
Subject: So where's the balloon then?
Message:
This is becoming more like an episode of 'The Prisoner' every day. That's the old sixties cult classic starring Patrick McGoowan and a giant self propelled balloon.

You remember, 'You are number six' - 'I am not a number, I'm a free man!' - and nobody knew who number two was, let alone number one.

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 16:53:44 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: anthginn@yahoo.com
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Boing boing boing
Message:
boing boing,

here it comes milud,

boing boing boing,

'I am not a number

boing

'I am a free man'

Splat.

Milud, (gasp) send me one last email before I go...

Anth the boinged.

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 23:55:44 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: So where's the balloon then?
Message:
It prob would have served some people better to have posted anonymously. The personality thing makes for easier reading, but revealing or potentially damaging info about Rawatt speaks for itself. A little more secrecy might not be such a bad thing.
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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 09:58:29 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Runamok
Subject: GOODBYE TO THE FORUM
Message:
Run,

You said,
It prob would have served some people better to have posted anonymously. The personality thing makes for easier reading, but revealing or potentially damaging info about Rawatt speaks for itself. A little more secrecy might not be such a bad thing.

This may not be what you are talking about, but for what it's worth, Gerry did NOT want to give his name in the beginning, when he volunteered to take this postion from Brian and Katie. He wanted to remain an anonymous administrator.

When I heard we were going to have an anonymous webmaster, I told Katie that I wouldn't post anymore. I also told her I believed that other anonymous people wouldn't post either, if they didn't know who was going to have access to their URLs. Katie forwarded that e-mail to Gerry and he didn't want to keep people from posting. He was concerned enough about this to give his real name here, which I appreciated very much. (Gerry,I still think you were right to give your name, but now I'm sorry it was my suggestion.) Brian and Katie also didn't get the support they deserved here for all of their hard work here and that sucks. Gerry got trashed here and on anything goes after giving his name. There's a lot of seriously sick behavior going on here, and in e-mail, too, but I don't think it has anything to do with anti-Maharaji sentiments (I whole heartedly support that) The forum problems are personality conflicts--human nature.

Well, I'm gone, because I don't know the webmaster and because some of the things going on here--mostly behind the scenes in e-mail are completely unhealthy. If anyone here needs to get in touch with me, IF you're nice, you might be able to get Katie to forward your e-mail on. Good luck to the new forum administrator wherever you are.

Before I go, thanks to all of the old timers from Forum II and III who helped me see the truth about Maharaji and sort out my thoughts on various other spiritual issues:

Brian, Katie (Mischa), Nigel, Mickey the P, JW, Jean-Michel, Sir David, Gerry, Jerry, Mike, Robyn, eb, bill burke, John K, Selene, Helen, Gail, Judex (wherever you are), x, Rick, Joy, Anon, Seymour, and Runamok. Sorry if I forgot anyone.

Special thanks to Scott Perry and Jim Heller for getting this whole thing started, and to Katie and Brian and Gerry for webmastering. You all did a very good thing. And to Maharaji, goodbye forever. I'm done with you.

The artist formerly known as VP -snicker-
Still not in the cult in 1999 :)

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Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 09:37:34 (EDT)
From: bb
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: VP
Message:
Hi VP,
Maybe you could stop in at a library and post from
there sometimes.
You have been a great read and I was sorry to see
you will be posting less.
Your a real creative and interesting 'vitual premie'
and off to a great start inlife. Give us updates!
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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 20:34:54 (EDT)
From: Runamok
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Re: GOODBYE TO THE FORUM
Message:
VP,
I'm still at my address if you want to drop me a line. My PC is having probs, but I'll manage to get it if you send it.
I don't agree with a lot of your characterizations, but we can talk about it if you want. Otherwise, have a good one.

Runamok

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 21:01:30 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: david@xyzx.freeserve.co.uk
To: VP
Subject: All you need is love
Message:
And that great message from JGP&R back in 1967 still holds true. I don't like all this suspicion and paranoia myself but the Internet does take some strange twists and turns and since ex-premies first started posting on the net a few years ago, there's been many swings and roundabouts.

I offered to run this forum, on the condition that I did it my own way and with no interference from anyone and with no censorship or blocking, like I do with The ANYTHING GOES forum.

No cigar, since my offer was rejected. Perhaps I'm too much of a renegade and too much of an ex ex-premie to really grasp the situation here. Because to be honest, much of what happens here I cannot relate to.

By the way, my two daughters of 7 and 8 and stepdaughter of nearly 8 would like to correspond via email with children of a similar age. If you know of some such children then please let me know. Thanks.

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 13:52:04 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: My Two Cents
Message:
VP,

Your departure, in my opinion, is a bit of an over reaction.

First, the way Forum IV is presently configured the Admin does not have access to your IP address. However, that may change at the discretion of the new Admin.

Second, having access to your IP address, unless your are posting from your own domain, provides very little useful information. At best the IP can tell what ISP you are using and what city you are posting from. Frequently, the city cannot be determined.

I see that my name was omitted. Fine. I did a real crappy job for three weeks as webmaster and got what I deserved.

I also asked to be an anonymous webmaster. However, it was strongly suggested that I not be anonymous. At this point in time after my wonderful experience as webmaster I firmly believe that the webmaster may very well wish to be anonymous for some very good reasons.

First, being webmaster taints your regular posting name and all your post are flavored and toned down to take in consideration that you are the webmaster. No fun!

Second, there may be some creeps out there that don't like you and will make your life miserable. And sooner your later the webmaster invariably becomes a target.

Third, does it really matter? The Paradise forum actually requires very little work. The job really is a responsibility to remove inappropriate posts and block really offensive posters. As long as the collective WE trusts the webmaster what does it matter if everyone knows who the webmaster is. Sure, there's some cloak and dagger here, but for Reason #1 I think that we could all overlook the anonymous nature of the webmaster.

Fourth is the slight possibility that Maharaji and Company might want to take action against the webmaster. Being anonymous gives them one more hoop to go through.
I know who the webmaster is and regardless of what you think of me, I will say that the new webmaster is a very good person whom you would all be proud to have as your Master, uh, I mean Webmaster.

Yup, there's gonna be personalities on the Forum that you might not like. That's life. And there's going to be sickos as well.

Finally, I'll say from my own experience being a webmaster can be a very miserable job when you are under attack and you don't know who your friends and who your enemies are. It's very unsettling to say the least. Your doing a job that requires your full attention that requires you to fair and responsible. Just when you think you are doing ok you are under attack and have no way to appease everyone. It's a tough spot to be in. Why would any sane person want to put themselves in this position?

Sorry to hear you are leaving.

barney the Oliver Cromwell of Webmasters to whom I AM somehow related

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 16:02:08 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Re: My Two Cents
Message:
Barney,

I'm as bad as Nigel--just kidding Nigel.

I'm no computer wizard like you, so I didn't know what info someone could or couldn't get from my postings here. I do appreciate you sharing that info with everyone though. Maybe you helped someone else to feel confident posting.

I didn't leave your name out intentionally. (I left out a lot of people whom I later thought about--g's mom, Mr. Ex, Deena, Still Crazy, Chris Dickey, hamzen, etc.)

To tell you the truth, I forgot you had webmastered. I apologize. (But seriously, Aren't you a little glad I forgot that stuff??:)

I'll amend my post to read Special thanks to Scott and Jim for starting this and to ALL THE WEBMASTERS PAST AND PRESENT. You did a good thing.

I agree that the webmaster should be anonymous. For all of the reasons you stated above and more.

Of course you are welcome to your opinion, but I don't think my leaving is an over reaction, Barney. In the first place, I was never IN this cult. My relatives were in it and I was only pulled along for the brainwashing. All I ever got was satsang and excuses about why Maharaji's programs were more important than spending time together.

Yes, my whole spirituality was based on the same lies that yours was. And yes, being a kid, it messed me up pretty good in that area. But I feel straightened out completely now, so I don't need the forum anymore other than as a social support system. I have the e-mail addresses of some people I am interested in keeping in touch with.

This place used to be a gas, but now the only thing that's fun is reading the posts by the British guys and wishing I was drinking Latvian beer with them. Okay, that's not entirely true, but for me right now I think it's a good thing to back off of this place for a while. The nasty stuff got me down.

Yeah, maybe it was a bit dramatic to announce I was going. I should have just left quietly. But I did want to thank everyone, and I'm sorry I forgot you initially. It wasn't personal, I assure you.

My only regret is never making the best of the forum ;) Just kidding.

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 17:49:08 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Your refund, madame
Message:
As Roseanna Dana-Whatever would say, 'Oh, nevermind.'

Yes, it would be best if my reign of horror as webmaster be forgotten. I'm still licking the salt out of my wounds. Surely, the good times will roll under the new management.

I'm embarking on a new career myself as a commercial airline pilot. Lots of responsibility needing a cool head. If the criticism gets to be too much I'll just say, 'Listen, I'm tired of this shit. Let's see how well you do!' and walk aft for a smoke.

As for Roger's ***Best of the Forum*** it is not always a good thing to have your post listed there.

Ok, take care.

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 21:38:13 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: barney
Subject: Re: Your refund, madame
Message:
Hey Barney,
In my life a few people, that I didn't really know have called me Roseanna Roseanna Dana. Years ago in a couple of bars and a bank teller once told me that all the tellers refered to me as such. I loved it, my hair use to be quite frizzy but it was the style, now I never brush it if it isn't wet and it is all spiral curls but my hair was a lot like hers and I can be a space cadett! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 00:24:45 (EDT)
From: barney
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Roseanna Roseanna Dana (ot)
Message:
Robyn,

Gee, that's a great alias - Roseanna Roseanna Dana.

I loved those skits. The concept of rambling on and on and not knowing what you're talking about and then saying never mind is so applicable to all of us.

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 13:20:47 (EDT)
From: Gmom
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Re: GOODBYE TO THE FORUM
Message:
I am sorry to read this. You have always been an eloquent voice.
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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 21:56:34 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Gmom
Subject: Re: GOODBYE TO THE FORUM
Message:
Thanks, g's mom. That's a wonderful compliment to go out on. I wear it with pride :) Take care.

VP
Went sailing on labor day '99

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 22:24:48 (EDT)
From: Forum Member
Email: None
To: VP
Subject: Re: GOODBYE TO THE FORUM
Message:
VP: I have read your post above about leaving the Forum. I wish that you would not leave us. Your posts help me and others I suspect. If you leave, it will be a loss to the Forum and to all of us.

I understand that the webmaster's anonymity is of great concern to you and it is none of my business why you feel that way. I hope that if someone you trust tells you that the new person is ok, that you will reconsider your decision, maybe even using another posting name. I for one do not want to lose you over this.

Thank you for your many valuable contributions.

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Date: Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 11:42:31 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Forum Member
Subject: Hi Veep (NOMB)
Message:
Veep,

It's always irked me that you would be so goddammed scared of having your 'relatives' know what you really think. Like, are you planning to live out your days that way? Why?
Is there money involved? Listen, if the answer's 'yes' I can actually understand that. I well might do the same thing. But what I can't understand is indefinitely pussy-footing around cult members who once tried to drag you into their quagmire. After all, you're only interested because they tried to force this whole trip on you in the first place. So what if you've got a few opinions now that you've grown up and can think for yourself?

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Date: Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 13:10:30 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Hi Veep (NOMB)
Message:
Jim,
What does NOMB mean?

It's always irked me that you would be so goddammed scared of having your 'relatives' know what you really think.

Aren't you glad you got that off of your chest? Make no mistake, My relatives know EXACTLY how I feel about Maharaji.

Yeah, when I first got here, I was a little concerned that I would be found out, not only by my relatives, but by the cult. What do you expect? Some guy got hit in the head with a hammer for a pie to the face joke.

This place seemed a lot more dangerous to Maharaji's screwed up little circus (IMO) than a pie to the face. And I've got kids, which someone without kids may not be able to relate to. Well, now I think to be afraid like that IS ridiculous. I had just seen way too many movies.

So, why be anonymous here? My reason for being anonymous on the forum lately has little to do with me (now, when I first got here it did) and everything to do with someone else in my family. It's a child custody-type issue where someone else could be punished for my being here. (Stupid, I know, but some people are stupid) Sorry I can't be more specific than that.

Too bad it isn't about money.

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