Forum IV: The Ex-Premie Forum
Archive: 2
From: Thurs, Aug 26, 1999 To: Sat, Sep 11, 1999 Page: 2 Of: 5


Brian -:- Another Journey -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 08:49:08 (EDT)
__ URL -:- Re: Another Journey -:- Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 21:13:30 (EDT)
__ __ Jim -:- No, URL, you miss the point -:- Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 00:21:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ URL -:- Re: No, URL, you miss the point -:- Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 15:38:50 (EDT)

AJW -:- Sunday Express Bum Out. -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 08:42:45 (EDT)
__ Liz -:- Re: Sunday Express Bum Out. -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 23:49:13 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave -:- Re: Sunday Express Bum Out. -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 09:03:49 (EDT)

Jean-Michel -:- Don't miss this -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 06:02:18 (EDT)

JHB -:- Memories of Last Night -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 08:56:14 (EDT)
__ Jethro -:- Re: Memories of Last Night -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 09:46:54 (EDT)
__ __ AJW -:- Never again till next time. -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 18:35:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ JHB -:- The Good Bits of the Cult -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 19:00:58 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Similar high... -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 05:50:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ ham -:- Latvian Pool Champions -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 05:29:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Latvian Pool Champions -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 09:58:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- To the lovely robyn red breast -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 13:44:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: To the lovely robyn red breast -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 13:52:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ham -:- am i dreaming? -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 17:10:08 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: am i dreaming? -:- Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 17:19:14 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Re: Latvian Pool Champions -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 08:23:03 (EDT)

CdM -:- Wot, no archives!? -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 04:02:54 (EDT)
__ AJW -:- Hi Charlie & Lee. -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 18:53:44 (EDT)
__ Secret Forum Elf -:- Re: Wot, no archives!? - Fear not! -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 16:02:37 (EDT)
__ __ CdM -:- Re: Wot, no archives!? - Fear not! -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 16:19:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Wot, no archives!? - Fear not! -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 21:06:23 (EDT)
__ __ __ Secret Forum Elf -:- Details, details, details -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 17:16:45 (EDT)
__ Robyn -:- Re: Wot, no archives!? -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 07:02:48 (EDT)

Liz -:- Sick of this Subject -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 16:46:32 (EDT)

AJW -:- Dear Glen... -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 13:04:17 (EDT)
__ Sir Dave -:- The prime issue -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 15:45:46 (EDT)
__ __ g's mom -:- Re: The prime issue -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 16:44:09 (EDT)
__ __ __ VP -:- to g's mom -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 17:54:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ Sir Dave -:- When trust is broken -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 20:37:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ gmom -:- misquoted you -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 17:03:22 (EDT)
__ __ Liz -:- Re: The prime issue -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 16:43:33 (EDT)
__ __ URL -:- Re: The prime issue -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 16:34:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ duke of hurl -:- Re: The prime issue -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 01:47:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ S.A.M. -:- Re: The premie issue -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 04:43:33 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: The premie issue -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 12:34:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- This sorry affair. -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 18:30:22 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: This sorry affair. -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 20:48:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Thanks URL (nt) -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 05:51:19 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Jethro -:- Re: Thanks URL (nt) -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 01:50:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ gmom -:- URL -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 12:54:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: URL -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 13:46:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: URL -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 17:46:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ S.A.M. -:- You took the bait, URL -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 14:46:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Hey SAM -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 06:08:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Liz -:- Unquestioned Authority -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 00:16:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: You took the bait, URL -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 17:58:04 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Chupacabra -:- Re: URL -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 14:31:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Angry Man -:- Re: URL -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 23:05:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- MS. -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 06:12:24 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Re: URL -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 04:40:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Ha John, you beat me to it (nt) -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 06:13:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Chupacabra -:- Re: URL -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 00:24:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Angry Man -:- Re: URL -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 10:52:52 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ angry GMom -:- Bullshit- they BLAME the POPE -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 12:36:37 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ An Observer -:- You are too caught up in -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 11:34:10 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Angry Man -:- Re: You are too caught up in -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 15:52:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- A Question for Angry Man -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 16:34:13 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Angry Man -:- Re: A Question for Angry Man -:- Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 21:19:48 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: URL -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 16:04:00 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: URL -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 18:03:41 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Liz -:- Re: URL -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 23:24:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Chupacabra -:- Re: URL -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 16:56:03 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Liz -:- Re: URL -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 23:31:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: URL -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 18:02:02 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Marianne -:- Hear, hear Chuppie! -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 18:01:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: Hear, hear Chuppie! -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 18:10:42 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Re: Hear, hear Chuppie! -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 19:25:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: Hear, hear Chuppie! -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 20:38:31 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Hear, hear Chuppie! -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 18:25:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: Hear, hear Chuppie! -:- Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 12:55:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: Hear, hear Chuppie! -:- Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 14:18:32 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: Hear, hear Chuppie! -:- Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 16:47:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ AJW -:- Weak-kneed and weepy. -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 06:28:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Chupacabra -:- Re: Hear, hear Chuppie! -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 01:00:18 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Know It All -:- Where's the medical insurance? -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 14:28:12 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Where's the medical insurance? -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 18:18:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Ben Lurking -:- Re: Hear, hear Chuppie! -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 00:51:29 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Know It All -:- Re: Hear, hear Chuppie! -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 22:16:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Re: URL -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 16:32:26 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ The Equalizer -:- Re: URL -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 14:17:38 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ gmom -:- Great Post S.A.M. -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 12:15:34 (EDT)
__ __ __ Secret Agent Man -:- STAY ON THE TOPIC, URL -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 17:06:01 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Sir Dave -:- Re: STAY ON THE TOPIC, URL -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 20:54:25 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: STAY ON THE TOPIC, URL -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 18:32:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: STAY ON THE TOPIC, URL -:- Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 13:59:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: STAY ON THE TOPIC, URL -:- Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 14:26:28 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: STAY ON THE TOPIC, URL -:- Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 18:52:40 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: STAY ON THE TOPIC, URL -:- Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 21:28:55 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: STAY ON THE TOPIC, URL -:- Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 13:02:30 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Robyn -:- Re: STAY ON THE TOPIC, URL -:- Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 19:05:07 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: STAY ON THE TOPIC, URL -:- Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 19:36:36 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ URL -:- PAY ATTENTION SAM -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 18:25:24 (EDT)
__ Marianne -:- Re: Dear Glen... -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 14:21:49 (EDT)
__ __ Chupacabra -:- Re: Dear Glen... -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 15:44:51 (EDT)
__ __ Chupacabra -:- Re: Dear Glen... -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 15:39:47 (EDT)
__ __ __ Zac -:- Thread of truth -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 16:01:51 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ AJW -:- Some Premies Care. -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 18:49:45 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Zac -:- Re: Some Premies Care. -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 21:11:57 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Roger E. Drek -:- ***Best of Forum*** for Chupacabra and Zac -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 16:45:01 (EDT)

Enough -:- All the samecomments please -:- Wed, Sep 01, 1999 at 23:12:06 (EDT)
__ MIND FILTER -:- Re: All the samecomments please -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 10:41:20 (EDT)
__ Jim -:- You're right, we shouldn't -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 05:45:37 (EDT)
__ __ Skypilot -:- Why shouldn't we? -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 11:26:15 (EDT)
__ __ __ Jim -:- Well, it's like this -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 11:29:59 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Well, it's like this.....really? -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 19:29:05 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ JHB -:- Re: Well, it's like this.....really? -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 21:09:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Shp -:- Re: Well, it's like this.....really? -:- Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 21:29:35 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Gregg -:- GMJ and others -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 20:47:27 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ Jim -:- Re: GMJ and others -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 21:31:16 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Gregg -:- Re: GMJ and others -:- Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 09:08:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ Barbara -:- Re: Well, it's like this -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 16:19:21 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: Well, it's like this -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 16:29:49 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ __ __ Roger E. Drek -:- Oh no, the reference to Judas! (nt) -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 20:34:06 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ URL -:- Re: Well, it's like this -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 13:19:20 (EDT)
__ __ __ __ MIND FILTER -:- Re: Well, it's like this -:- Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 12:20:04 (EDT)


Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 08:49:08 (EDT)
From: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: All
Subject: Another Journey
Message:
I put Sofi's Journeys entry online this morning.

Every time I read one like this I remember the 'signs' that seemed to point to Maharaji, and the 'signs' that seemed to point away. It still gets me down sometimes to recall how I traipsed along through life by simply following them...

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Date: Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 21:13:30 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Another Journey
Message:
Now let's see -- Sofi received K and concocted a home brew of it and a bunch of other spiritualistic pursuits. She seemed to abandon her physical responsibilities and spent many hours trying to break on through to the other side. As a result she became a little shakey and needed some medical support which she sought at the psych hospital. She got herself back on her feet until her husband inflicted his doubts regarding Maharaji upon her, which understandibly sent her into a tail-spin. Later she asked for a sign from God and when she opened a book called 'The Gift' which is an Indian premie publication, she got the message that the phone numbers bore the sign of the anti-christ. So she left Maharaji. Hmmmm.

With this entry into journeys you have confirmed my impression of the basis of the accusations you guys make. Says something about you too Brian.

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Date: Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 00:21:28 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: No, URL, you miss the point
Message:
URL,

You don't get it do you? We're all our own people, dude. So you get your religious nuts, eh? Big fucking deal. We're not some orchestrated, bullshit voice of pablum like your sanforized motherfuckers. By the way, when was the last time I called you stupid?

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Date: Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 15:38:50 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: No, URL, you miss the point
Message:
Yes, and it shows what an imperceptive fuck you are to imply that I'm a castrated sanforized motherfucker. When was the last time I called you a hate-filled pin-headed flip-flopping anti-cult cult zealot.

God I miss talking to you Jim! We simply HAVE to do this again.

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 08:42:45 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Sunday Express Bum Out.
Message:
Hi,

The Saga continues (and believe me, it ain't over yet).

The Sunday Express have decided not to run the story about Mahatma Jagdeo's paedophilic activities. Apparently this is nothing to do with legal pressure from Elan Vital. The nearest explanation I could get was that it was for some commercial reason.

There's a lot going on behind the scenes with this one. We should all sit tight and wait for the next developments. My faith in the power of the truth is growing and I'm sure, over the next week or two, all will eventually be revealed.

So, you can save yourself 85p tomorrow, (but hang on to your money, because you might find something better to spend it on soon).

Watch this space. Maybe you'll have to wait a week or two for all your questions to be answered.

Anth the Always Thought the Express Was Crap Anyway.

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 23:49:13 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Sunday Express Bum Out.
Message:
Dear Anthony,

Hang in there. I expect Glen must be relieved there's no story just yet. He should read the latest journey because he must know by now that everyone that practices Knowledge is NOT Enjoying Life dot con.

Love,

Liz

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 09:03:49 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Sunday Express Bum Out.
Message:
Put your 85p on Mousehole in the 4-35 at Haydock today. That's where mine's going anyway.
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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 06:02:18 (EDT)
From: Jean-Michel
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Don't miss this
Message:
There is a very interesting discussion now on

ExSatsangi support group

on Rawat's 'knowledge' and teaching.

Everybody is also welcome there!

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 08:56:14 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Memories of Last Night
Message:
AJW, Jethro and Hamzen joined me last night to sample a few Latvian beers, play Novus (A kind of Latvian pool with flat wooden disks instead of balls), and generally discuss and enjoy life free from the cult. Such a good time was had everyone agreed it should become a regular event. I hope Hamzen can remember deciding this, and I also hope everyone got home safe and sound!:-)

John the social animal

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 09:46:54 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Memories of Last Night
Message:
I can safely say that Hamzen remembers very little from last night. After I severely repremanded him and reiterated all the EVENTS and interactions that took place, he understood that he should have shown more gratitude.....however to make amends he said you should send the bill for cleaning the carpet to prempal c/o glen whittiker. We are sure that glen would be happy for the service...really glen thisis such an opportunity not to be lost.

Jethro

Anyway it's now 2.45 pm here and Hamzen is almost risen.

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 18:35:23 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Jethro, hamzen, John
Subject: Never again till next time.
Message:
Hi JHB,

Thanks for hosting what turned out to be a wonderfully riotous evening, and Jeth' and ham' thanks for a great night.

Anth the Badly Hungover Latvian, (but hamzen has got to be worse)

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 19:00:58 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: The Good Bits of the Cult
Message:
Last night reminded me of the high I got at programs before and after meeting premies that I liked and socialising. I think there's something about people who have made a sincere attempt to understand a bit more about life that I like. And the buzz of talking honestly about Maharaji and the cult is truly excellent!

John.

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 05:50:02 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Similar high...
Message:
Hi John,

You're right. We did get high. The company was great, but I think the Latvian Headbanging Booze may have helped too.

Thanks for the T-shirt. (I'm scared to wear it in case It's possesed).

Have fun in Riga.

Anth the Latvian Alcoholic.

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 05:29:04 (EDT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: AJW/JHB/Jethro
Subject: Latvian Pool Champions
Message:
John,

Thanks for the introduction to Porteiris, or whatever it's called, good MIND blowing stuff that, yes yes.

Jed, as for you you lying git, I remember everything from that evening, and some of the things that SUPPOSEDLY happened .......All I can say is you'll get over the cult someday and then you'll realize you don't need to lie anymore.

Anth, next time we've got to get peoples money on the table, I think our reign as Latvian pool champions could run & run.

Thanks everyone for a much better evening than I was expecting, although I'd warn the barwoman to keep away from Jethro in the future.

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 09:58:28 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Re: Latvian Pool Champions
Message:
Dear Ham,
Finally coming round, eh? Two days later! :) Loved hearing about your escapades.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 13:44:37 (EDT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: To the lovely robyn red breast
Message:
Cheeky bugger,

When you coming over, then I might get a chance to have a pop at your german mate, after we've rolled himover at Latvian pool, a psychedelic version of shove halfpenny if anything

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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 13:52:34 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Re: To the lovely robyn red breast
Message:
Dear Ham,
Well sometimes they are red actually, one of the pit falls of nude sun bathing! ;) I have gotten that tossed out at me my whole life but thought it better than 'Rockin Robin' from the Jackson Five!!!!
I am afraid you have me confused with someone else though dear as I have no german mate! I may actually make it over there in a few years though and am counting on meeting you all. I don't drink anymore but feel I'd have to make an exception. I actually had a bit of wine at a party yesterday and enjoyed the buzz. I think a good drunk and dancing is good for the soul from time to time but becoming a diabetic has curtailed my wild tendencies! :) Of course there are other teats available to substitute though thank god! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 17:10:08 (EDT)
From: ham
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: am i dreaming?
Message:
No german mate indeed! and what about that ole german rocker you and that japanese girl were fighting over earlier in the year? Did I imagine it all?
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Date: Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 17:19:14 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Re: am i dreaming?
Message:
Dear Ham,
Oh, oh, dead and fogotten I am afraid to say! Some loyal woman I turned out to be, eh? You did know he bit the big one as the saying goes. I was always more partial to Larkin anyway but he seems oblivious! :)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 08:23:03 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: ham
Subject: Re: Latvian Pool Champions
Message:
'Jed, as for you you lying git, I remember everything from that evening, and some of the things that SUPPOSEDLY happened .......All I can say is you'll get over the cult someday and then you'll realize you don't need to lie anymore. '

I never lied when I was in the cult. I said he was god right to the time I realized I had been had.....anyway I have 2 witnesses!

'Thanks everyone for a much better evening than I was expecting, although I'd warn the barwoman to keep away from Jethro in the future. '

Hmmmm....aren't you a mercenary for that carpet-cleaning company?

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 04:02:54 (EDT)
From: CdM
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Wot, no archives!?
Message:
Hi All,

just got back from a two weeks holiday and am catching up on all things new. Unfortunately the last message threads I was reading before I left have now gone over the fold. I emailed Gerry to see if there are such things as archives for this forum but alas, he says 'sorry no archives. It's the limitation of the software'.

It just reminds me what great forum software Brian provided for the days of Forum 3.

Charlie (feeling a bit nostalgic)

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 18:53:44 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: anthginn@yahoo.com
To: CdM
Subject: Hi Charlie & Lee.
Message:
Hi,

Welcome back to summer in the city.

Hope you had a great holiday.

Could you email me please?

Thanksalot,

Anth the Only Himself to Blame.

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 16:02:37 (EDT)
From: Secret Forum Elf
Email: None
To: CdM
Subject: Re: Wot, no archives!? - Fear not!
Message:
Under the topic of Better late than never.

I've archived on July 31, 1999 and it goes back 700 messages. I've also just archived today (990903) and it goes back 700 messages. Obviously, there's going to be some overlap. The Paradise forum is not as tidy as Forum III for archiving in terms of pinpointing exact dates to begin and end the archive.

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 16:19:03 (EDT)
From: CdM
Email: None
To: Secret Forum Elf
Subject: Re: Wot, no archives!? - Fear not!
Message:
Dear Forum Elf,

excellent. Thank you. This is good news indeed.

But how do I get to view them?

Charlie

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 21:06:23 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: CdM
Subject: Re: Wot, no archives!? - Fear not!
Message:
You must be pure in heart and watch many videos before the secret archives can be revealed.
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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 17:16:45 (EDT)
From: Secret Forum Elf
Email: None
To: CdM
Subject: Details, details, details
Message:
I've arranged with Roger Drek to store the archvies on his website.

Forum IV Archives

You are probably better off looking at the first archive ending 990831. It goes back only 700 messages and I'm not quite sure of the starting date. The second archive will, no doubt, have much of the same as the first archive.

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 07:02:48 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: CdM
Subject: Re: Wot, no archives!?
Message:
Dear Charlie,
Welcome back to you and Lee! Hope you had a great time on your holiday. Makes it easier to see Europe when you already live there! ;)
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 16:46:32 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: All
Subject: Sick of this Subject
Message:
This subject needs to be handled. Would any premies who know any information about sexual abuse within Divine Light Mission or Elan Vital please contact this forum. Your information and identity will be protected.

Liz

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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 13:04:17 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: anthginn@yahoo.com
To: All
Subject: Dear Glen...
Message:
Hi,

Here's my reply to the letter I got from Elan Vital (published below as 'Dear Anth...'. I've taken out the names of the people who were informed by g-mom, because neither g-mom or myself feel anything will be gained, and maybe something will be lost, by naming them. I did, however, name them in my letter to Elan Vital.

I just heard a beautiful woman call, 'Dinner's Ready'.

Adios, Anth the Hungry.

September 1st 99

Hi Glen,

In response to your letter of 26th August, 99, I did indeed make allegations on the ex-premie website, last year, on November 1st, in my ‘Journey’, based on communication with a parent and ex pupil of Unity School, earlier that year. I’m sure you remember when my story appeared on the Internet, as you wrote to me about it soon afterwards. (I’m not sure if by reminding you of this, you’ll have to take legal advice, but what the hell.)

In your letter you mentioned that you conducted some enquiry. I’d be interested to know what form this took. You knew that the alleged offence took place at Unity School 74/75, as this information was in what I’d published in November. Did you ask anyone who was at Unity School at that time about what happened? If so, who? Both Dot and I were there, why didn’t you ask either of us? It doesn’t sound like a very thorough enquiry to me Glen. Do you even know the names of his ‘alleged’ victims.(there is more than one).

You say that allegations of this nature are extremely damaging. They are only damaging if they are untrue. Sexual abuse of young children is extremely damaging, and allegations of such acts, if true, are the first step in healing the damage done.

You also say if the allegations are untrue, they may destroy the life and reputation of an old man and may cause damage to any victims who might rather put the matter behind them or have it approached more discreetly. Surely Glen, if the allegations are untrue, how can ‘not putting the matter behind them’ cause distress, if nothing actually happened.

I do have further information that will assist an enquiry Glen. There are reports on the Ex-premie website of offences committed by Jagdeo in the United States, in the Journey’s section, in the Journey by g- mom. You should read it.

More detailed information about the crimes and the victims have been given to the Police, who’ve probably contacted you by now.

I’ve been in close communication with both victims, at every stage since this affair floated to the surface of the pool. I can assure you that they are both extremely glad that things have finally been taken seriously and been brought out into the open.

You say that Elan Vital wasn’t aware of these ‘alleged offences’ until recently, and then hint at legal action if I disagree. If you read g mom’s Journey, on Ex-Premie.org you’ll see she told two instructors, both close to Maharaji, who have both since been named on the Internet. I’m quite sure they would have passed the information on.

You say you’d like to pursue the matter, you could start by asking them what happened, who they told and what the response was. You could also make an announcement through your organisation, worldwide, that any possible victims, or parents of children may have been sexually abused by Mahatma Jagdeo should contact you. You could then pass this information to the police.

To be honest, whether Maharaji knew or not was an issue with me. It seems to miss the point of it all.

The reason I did nothing for 25 years Glen, was because I didn’t know about it until last year. As you’ve noticed, I’ve now done something.

So, I guess you’d better go and get some legal advice.

Anth the Whistle Blower

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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 15:45:46 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: The prime issue
Message:
I'd disagree with you there Anth, about not caring whether Maharaji knew about this or not. I'd say that this is the prime issue. Unfortunately a child abuser has a kind of illness. They will not change their ways unless made to do so and taken out of situations where there are children.

Personally (and I know this won't be popular), I believe that if Jagdeo did abuse children then he was as much a victim of Maharaji's regime as the children who were abused. Because if he had been allowed to lead a normal life with normal sexual activity with someone of his own generation, perhaps he would have not become a child abuser.

The sexual repression which was endemic in Maharaji's world could easily twist a person's sexuality and make them seek some kind of sexual fullfillment, wherever they could. You cannot turn off the sex drive in people and Maharaji's strict celebacy rules may have warped the sexuality of some people. I personally believe a child abuser is created by circumstance. It is not natural to abuse children and this unnatural tendency is surely born of an unnatural enviroment.

But back to my first point; since a child abuser cannot stop doing what he does when opportunity allows, it was paramount that he was removed from the company of children by the 'authorities' once they knew what he was doing.

Look, if a person allows a rabid dog to run loose, whose fault is it, the dog's fault or the owner's? In this instance, Maharaji was the owner of a rabid dog and Maharaji was responsible for what happened to the children. This is certainly the case if Maharaji knew of the child abuse.

In my previous post about this I asked about what kind of abuse was carried out and I am glad that it doesn't appear to have been as bad as it could have been. Don't misunderstand me here; any child abuse is bad but I am still somewhat relieved that the maximum abuse doesn't appear to have been carried out. I hope any victims can find the necessary help which they need to come to terms with what happened and heal the wounds which they may have.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 16:44:09 (EDT)
From: g's mom
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: The prime issue
Message:
Sir Dave I hope that you are not referring to the victim Jim was quoting when you state you are 'relieved'; one should feel revulsion, not relief, after reading such a statement. When you have made the 'it could have been worse statement' in relation to what happened to me, I feel it could be a legitimate thought, one I have felt myself..I am glad what happened to me was not worse. However, what Jim relayed was bad enough that it makes me ill. I guess as long as the victims are alive we can feel relief they were not murdered, but somehow to use the word relieved seems to minimize a VERY serious trauma.

I also disagree about Jagdeo being a creation of DLM's sexually repressed world. I have heard some child molesters are situational molesters. But my opinion is Jagdeo had a preference for children. My guess is he may have become a Mahatma in order to escape something in his past in India and to provide access to children. Sometimes, with Fakiranand, trebinand, jagdeo and the one who molested boys one starts to wonder if the Mahatmas flight to the US was akin to Castro emptying his prisons during the Mariel Boatlift.
( Actually, I knew one very good Indian mahatma, Prakesh Bai, she was a good woman and she became an ex before I did)

As far as Rawat knowing, here is something I wrote on the subject, there we agree

I want to tell you why Rawat ( cannot call him Maharaji; it sounds like a
term of endearment) knowing has always mattered to me. Because that was the
action I took to set things right and protect others. Of course
retrospectively it was a foolish action. But at the time I had so much
faith in Rawat that I truly believed he would fix it. Also, I guess I
myself was trying to protect my beloved cult by keeping the matter
'inside'. Of all the pain I have felt over this, the only pain that
remains is the pain of knowing that because I believed in Rawat, and wanted
to protect him and DLM, I did not consider contacting the police or telling
my mother. I still live with the belief that because Rawat kept Jagdeo on
as an intiator after the reports and he continued to tour, that there were
more victims subsequent to my reporting. This is the one thing I find most
painful; that I had it in my power to stop him, and that by trusting Rawat
I did not stop him.

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 17:54:03 (EDT)
From: VP
Email: None
To: g's mom
Subject: to g's mom
Message:
g's mom,
You said,
'This is the one thing I find most
painful; that I had it in my power to stop him, and that by trusting Rawat
I did not stop him.'

You thought you were taking the right action at the time. To your credit, you are trying to do something now. For what it's worth, I admire you for that.
VP

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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 20:37:00 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: g's mom
Subject: When trust is broken
Message:
Prakash Bai Ji gave me the knowledge. I liked her too. Now that she's an ex does that mean I was never a premie?

Please don't take any notice of my theories regarding Jagdeo. I may well be wrong and I didn't know the man anyway. In my own life I was abused as a child and I came to terms with it by trying to understand why the person had abused me, what motivated them and why they had been so callous and uncaring. This was not sexual abuse but emotional abuse over quite a long period when I was too young to speak up for myself.

I wanted to see the good in this person who had abused me. That way, if I could un-demonise them, the world seems a better and more understandable place. Any abuse of children at a time when they are too young to fend for themselves is abhorent. But how do you deal with it, especially when it has happened to you personally? Well I try to understand it. That is my way. And I also seek solace in the fact that it could have been worse and try not to let such things get repeated.

You cannot take the weight of the world on your own shoulders and take responibility yourself for others' misdemeaners. You were trained to see Rawat as a father figure who you could trust. Therefore, as a child you trusted him, like any normal child will trust her father, implicitly. That is the natural tendency of children, to trust their parents and elders. That is why such a breach of trust is so painful for a child. You could not be expected to have acted in any other way.

Children are naturally loving and trusting, which is why it is almost impossible for them to understand a breach of trust when it happens. And that is why any abuse of children, whether directly by a paedophile or indirectly by an authority figure; that is why such abuse is beneath contempt.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 17:03:22 (EDT)
From: gmom
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: misquoted you
Message:
you did not say you were relieved, you said you were glad it was not worse. The way I read that seemed like relief fit so I remembered incorrectly.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 16:43:33 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: The prime issue
Message:
What about this girl, Pattie from Regina, Canada? who according to Jim Heller was 'brutally raped by a 'mahatma'?
If anyone knows of her whereabouts (her sister's an avid premie) would they have the decency to come forward?

Liz

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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 16:34:30 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: The prime issue
Message:
Personally (and I know this won't be popular), I believe that if Jagdeo did abuse children then he was as much a victim of Maharaji's regime as the children who were abused. Because if he had been allowed to lead a normal life with normal sexual activity with someone of his own generation, perhaps he would have not become a child abuser.

What about the holocaust Tinker-bell? Surely Maharaji must have been responsible for that too. And Kosovo. And what about hurricane Mitch. And that drive-by shooting...

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 01:47:55 (EDT)
From: duke of hurl
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: The prime issue
Message:
The point is, these people were paraded in front of us by rawat as almost divine beings- they were intrusted to 'reveal' his knowledge, and we trusted and revered them. You think rawat, in his divine existence, was blind to this shit? He alone is above it all though he can get high and have his cock sucked by whoever? And whatever happens to anyone else is their own karma? Wake up, you pseudo intellectual little fuck, or maybe better yet, live out your days in your little false veil of bliss. Hey, MONGOLOIDS ARE HAPPY! No disrespect intended to persons with Down's Syndrome, but I'm SURE you get the point.
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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 04:43:33 (EDT)
From: S.A.M.
Email: None
To: duke of hurl
Subject: Re: The premie issue
Message:
The subject should really be the premie (Hindi for lover) as it is the blindness of the premies that cannot discriminate between right and wrong. Yes, in this case we are throwing out the baby with the bath water. Fuck Maharaji and his perfect fucking knowledge if HE allows sick old men to make a mockery out of the most simple and precious gift other than life itself, but sweet and innocent childhood.

For me sometimes my fond memories of a decent childhood is the only thing I've got.

If I had been the one in power and found out that somebody was molesting children under my watch I'd castrate them and banish them. End of story, end of problem. Pretty simple.

Finally, would Maharaji let this happen to HIS children? Would HE let the criminal go unpunished?

HARDLY!

The reality is that Maharaji only cares about himself and how much money is coming in so that he can maintain his extravagant and ridiculous lifestyle.

Premies, wake up! It is a premie issue. Can you really love a Master that would allow such to happen to you or your children?

Is this a lila for you to learn and understand or is this just sick and wrong?

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 12:34:05 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: S.A.M.
Subject: Re: The premie issue
Message:
The transparency of some of you people is quite ridiculous. Your well-rehearsed moral indignation at Jagdeo's alleged paedophilic behaviour is for one purpose and one purpose alone -- to try and bury Maharaji. At the best of times most of you wouldn't bat an eye. You of course seize upon this opportunity like a dog with a bone. The venom many of you feel for Maharaji has little to do with the alleged incidents and everything to do with a lot of other personal issues with him. And I do say most -- not all.

I am of course troubled by the allegations. Paedophilia is disgusting for all the reasons many of you have stated, especially when viewed through the eyes of the alleged victim. But to use their plight to serve your own vendetta against Maharaji is reprehensible. Your self-righteous hypocrisy and self-serving indignation puts you in the same pit as you are trying to throw Jagdeo, and makes you look very ugly.

BTW don't try pulling rank on me folks -- I grew up in household where child abuse in its various forms was the norm. One thing I HAD to do was deal with it and move on. In the process I learned a little forgiveness.

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 18:30:22 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: This sorry affair.
Message:
Hi URL,

I'm not using this sad affair as a way to get at Maharaji. I tried to deal with it out of the public eye, but got an unsatisfactory response.

I was a schoolteacher who beleived one of the children in my care had been seriously, sexually abused, by a person in authority, associated with the school.

(As it turns out, the offence may well have been commited after the school closed down, but the building was still owned, and being used by Divine Light Mission, but this is not the point).

My complete concern in the matter has been to help the victims, one of whom I know personally, and one who I've got to know a bit through the internet.

URL, I've been going through all sorts of stuff dealing with this very delicate matter, and what's been driving me, is the voice of an eight or nine year old child, telling us about this awful thing that happened to her. She's been telling people for twenty five years. I heard a year or so ago. We got in contact again and I listend. , She is an intelligent woman now, but she hasn't let go of the sense of injustice about what happened to her, and still wants the matter dealing with.

After 25years, she still wanted justice. She still wanted people to take her seriously. She still wanted people to deal with the abuse she'd experienced.

At the same time URL, I was feeling more and more uncomfortable, knowing what had happened, but doing nothing about it.

There's lots of angles to this URL, and I haven't got time to go into them all, but I'm sure you've followed events here.

What this is all about for me is listening to victims of child abuse and doing everything I can to help sort it out. I am definitely not trying to sling mud at Maharaji through this. I've never taken my aim off Jagdeo. And it's not mud I'm slinging at him, it's rocks.

So, I suppose I'll be blamed for this story, if it ever appears. The newspaper contacted me by the way URL, I didn't contact them. I was happy enough that a full statement was made to the police.

We can't skirt around the main issues here URL. If a child in an educational institution is sexually abused, the teacher's have a legal and moral obligation to deal with it in the way they think most appropriate. I believed this is what happened and dealt with is as best I could.

Now this storm has blown up and the affair is out of my hands. I'm watching along with everyone else, waiting to see what's going to happen next.

URL, at the start of my post, I said 'I'm not using this sad affair as a way of slinging mud at Maharaji'.

I wonder if you're using Maharaji as a way of not dealing with this sad affair, if you get my drift.

You'll just have to take my word on this one URL, but you'll see in my letter to Glen that I don't really consider Maharaji too important in this matter. It's about Jagdeo.

The indignation you feel about the people discussing this topic here would be better aimed at the perpertrator of these awful crimes, commited on young children. You're really missing the mark here URL.

Anth

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 20:48:05 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: This sorry affair.
Message:
Actually Anth(ony?), you are one of the ones I refer to by 'not all'. I believe you have, as has gmom, gone through a lot with this one, and do not hold you with any malice. I hope the air can be cleared so we can all move on.
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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 05:51:19 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Thanks URL (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 01:50:26 (EDT)
From: Jethro
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Thanks URL (nt)
Message:
Anth, I think Gentiles are a pile of shit....but I didn't mean you of course.....and there was this guy once that helped me up when fell off a bus.

Know warr I mean.

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 12:54:59 (EDT)
From: gmom
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: URL
Message:
URL, I am going to repeat something I said elsewhere.

I want to tell you why Rawat ( cannot call him Maharaji; it sounds like a
term of endearment) knowing has always mattered to me. Because that was the
action I took to set things right and protect others. Of course
retrospectively it was a foolish action. But at the time I had so much
faith in Rawat that I truly believed he would fix it. Also, I guess I
myself was trying to protect my beloved cult by keeping the matter
'inside'. Of all the pain I have felt over this, the only pain that
remains is the pain of knowing that because I believed in Rawat, and wanted
to protect him and DLM, I did not consider contacting the police or telling
my mother. I still live with the belief that because Rawat kept Jagdeo on
as an intiator after the reports and he continued to tour, that there were
more victims subsequent to my reporting. This is the one thing I find most
painful; that I had it in my power to stop him, and that by trusting Rawat
I did not stop him.

URL, it is you who sounds venomous.

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 13:46:30 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: gmom
Subject: Re: URL
Message:
Gmom, when I refered to venom, I did refer to MOST -- not all of you. I respect the actions you took if the allegations against Jagdeo are correct. The actions I do not respect are of the ones who are using your story to satisfy their grudges. I understand that you would welcome their support but that doesn't hide the fact they are using you.
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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 17:46:35 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: URL
Message:
URL,
I take GREAT offense to what you are saying here. I have not read one word by anyone but you to excuse anyone of thier actions in this matter. How dare you say 'if the allegations against Jagdeo are correct'! What are you saying, you do not think g's mom is being venomous so what then, deluded? This has been a wound she has carried with her all these years. The people posting here are supporting her and the other nameless victims because what happened to them is vile and I would say that IF M didn't know that he would not be to blame but we know that is not the case also, from g's mom's account of what she did to rectify the situation, don't we URL. If this situation and the way M ignored it fules anyones fire in so far as their negative feelings about M go that doesn't mean that they are using g's mom, it means M disregarded her and instead let this vile, evil, puke to continue racking up more spoiled innocence, to create more damaged children stuck with all the shit that goes along with the abuse and furthermore the abuse leveled by their 'lord' not giving a crap about their pure childhood innocence being crushed by this sick man.
You say you think what he did was wrong, that indeed you suffered abuse as a child, doesn't it enrage you to think of all the children he had access to and that your 'lord' gave him card blanche to continue perpetrate innocent children. Sickning.
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 14:46:06 (EDT)
From: S.A.M.
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: You took the bait, URL
Message:
URL,

When I started to write that venomous post I didn't know that I would end up as angry and venomous towards Maharaji. The whole post just flowed out of me and was not a rehearsed act of indignation. I, myself, was surprised at how angry I had become. And I'll tell you that I'm angry now! I don't think that I have a real big axe to grind with Maharaji because sometimes I almost buy the stuff that you revisionists say about that beautiful, beautiful inner experience. And I was in the damn cult for nearly 25 years and really got off on seeing Maharaji. I really liked Maharaji. My purpose at the Forum is more of getting at the truth as to what is the real Maharaji versus the wonderful entertainer that he can be. And what I'm finding out is that the emperor has no clothes.

Jean-Michel reported that he last saw Jagdeo in India at a festival sitting front stage with the other Mahatmas sometime in the mid 90's. I'm only speculating, but Jagdeo might be in a state of retirement where he is revered as some world class saint and is served hand and foot by, perhaps, children or young people. So, this is punishment? This is Maharaji dealing with a sick criminal in his ranks?

Pedophilia and other types of child abuse is most often a learned behavior from the experience of being a victim who never comes to terms with the original abuse. It is frequently generational handed down. It is most likely not caused by the repressive vows of celibacy that you have indicated.

What is truly appalling is the likes of people like you and Glen W. that are making such efforts to downplay this disgusting behavior and attack the people who would sincerely like to have justice served and in the case of g's mom made a brave effort years and years ago and nothing was done other than to perhaps sluff this criminal off to another unsuspecting community.

From the accounts that I have read I sincerely believe that such molestation occurred. To apply some scrutiny to the alleged accounts is expected. However, again, it's pretty obvious that the accounts are substantiated throughout the world. The very least that Divine Light Mission - Elan Vital, Maharaji, his minions and people like you should do is quietly apologize and admit the mistake. However, you people have taken the offensive and attack the victims and the people wanting some justice and some sense of right in the world.

If I was a premie I would be ashamed of my guru and my associates that refuse to deal with this head-on.

That's right, your guru, your Master, your Lord stinks!

This shit just pisses me off!

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 06:08:21 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: S.A.M.
Subject: Hey SAM
Message:
Hi Sam,

It's becoming obvious that a religious cult, with it's wierd 'us and them' view of life, is a good place for a paedophile to ply his trade.

The reason that it's been pushed under the carpet for so long is because many of the premies (particularly those in positions of authority) are only concerned with protecting their master. They seem to care little for the victims and little for Jagdeo.

This is yet another indication of how being in a cult fucks up your perspective on life.

It's almost funny how Glen came at me screaming, 'Don't say Maharaji knew,' because this really wasn't (and isn't) an issue with me. But once he brought the subject up he gave me something to think about...hmmmn.

It feels like he's got a gun, we've got wooden swords, but someone forgot to tell him to take it out the holster before he pulls the trigger.

Hence Glen walks with a heavy limp.

Thanks for your support SAM. I know g-mom, the second victim and myself really appreciate it. You, and the others who are behind us, are preventing a stormy time from being a hard time. Thanks again.

Anth the Waiting for the Bang Tomorrow.

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 00:16:10 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Unquestioned Authority
Message:
Hi Again Anth,

I just went on to the Sant Mat site & something rang true there as incredibly dangerous. I'm pretty sure you have realized this already but forgive me, I'm a slow learner.
The danger that all cults have in common regardless of whether they are showing people knowledge of God in the Heart is UNQUESTIONED AUTHORITY.

Liz the Inquisitive. (Inquiring minds like our want to know!)

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 17:58:04 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: S.A.M.
Subject: Re: You took the bait, URL
Message:
What is truly appalling is the likes of people like you and Glen W. that are making such efforts to downplay this disgusting behavior and attack the people who would sincerely like to have justice served and in the case of g's mom made a brave effort years and years ago and nothing was done other than to perhaps sluff this criminal off to another unsuspecting community.

Relax pal and reread my post to gmom. I'm not downplaying anything and I certainly do respect gmom's efforts, if the allegations against Jagdeo are true.

I am not ashamed of Maharaji, because NOBODY has shown me the FACTS of how he mishandled the issue. Assumption and bias are the mainstays of the allegations against his mishandling of it.

And another thing. How do justify letting your emotions run so rampant when the topic turns to something as charged as paedophelia? No wonder the state takes responsibility for crime and punishment. If it were left up to the rule of democracy, there'd be a guillotine on every street corner.

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 14:31:24 (EDT)
From: Chupacabra
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: URL
Message:
I think there's a difference between using a person and supporting a person. When sticky issues arise about unethical treatment (and illegal treatment) by one premie toward another premie, I've noticed what I call the 'airstream effect,' i.e., the words blow by the head, closely passing the ears, but not entering them. This happens because, if the words entered and were actually heard, the entire belief system of the premie would be called into question. I have great understanding of this because I, too, suffered from the syndrome. Just because a premie doesn't want to hear something, doesn't mean it should not be said. At one point, I attempted to right a wrong which had been inflicted on an ashram premie. After many years of solid dedication, this premie developed Multiple Sclerosis, and soon thereafter was asked to leave the ashram. When I complained to the powers that be about such insensitive and crass treatment, I was told that they were doing nothing illegal. They went deaf when I brought up ethics. So I know whereof I speak.
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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 23:05:24 (EDT)
From: Angry Man
Email: None
To: Chupacabra
Subject: Re: URL
Message:
Why not go all the way and blame Maharaji for the Multiple Sclerosis.
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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 06:12:24 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Angry Man
Subject: MS.
Message:
Hi Angry Man,

If he's the Lord of the Univserse it's his fault, so he deserves the blame.

Anth the Monmat

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 04:40:55 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Angry Man
Subject: Re: URL
Message:
Why not go all the way and blame Maharaji for the Multiple Sclerosis.

....well he is Lord of the Universe isn't he??

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 06:13:16 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Ha John, you beat me to it (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 00:24:10 (EDT)
From: Chupacabra
Email: None
To: Angry Man
Subject: Re: URL
Message:
Well, Angry Man, you definitely chose a correct and apt moniker for yourself. If you had bothered to use your consciousness and awareness while reading my post, you would see that I never mentioned GMJ, and that there is no attempt on my part to blame anyone for the illness. Once again, you provide a perfect example of the 'airstream effect' whereby the information zips right by your head with no penetration into your awareness. That might be just a bit confrontational for someone like you who deflects the attention from the issue by tossing out an absurd statement such as you did. Read it again, this time with an open mind.
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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 10:52:52 (EDT)
From: Angry Man
Email: None
To: Chupacabra
Subject: Re: URL
Message:
Chupacabra,

I accept full responsibility for my posting. Blaming Maharaji for the MS was all my idea, not yours. I just threw it out to join in the madness.

Nobody approves of child molesting. Jagdeo, if he is found guilty, is a sick man who needs treatment. Many priests have been accused of child molesting but nobody blames the pope.

It seems that you exes and blaming Maharaji for Jagdeo's illness, which is absurd. So I figured why not blame Maharaji for earthquakes, WWII, my lower back pain etc.

It was an absurd statement, but so is a lot of stuff on this site. I wanted to join in the absurdity.

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 12:36:37 (EDT)
From: angry GMom
Email: None
To: Angry Man
Subject: Bullshit- they BLAME the POPE
Message:
Have you READ about the altar boy molestations at all? You have no idea what you are talking about. The Catholic Church has spent millions paying victims. Why? Not because the Priests were molesters. Because they tried to protect and hide and coverup the fact that the priests were molesters. It is very much the same. If Rawat had dealt with this appropriately from the first day he was told, he would be absolutely blameless. I personally think Jagdeo was a molester before he ever became a premie. I do not blame Rawat for that at all. I blame him for not protecting kids once he knew.

Do a little reading about what happened in the Catholic Church.

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 11:34:10 (EDT)
From: An Observer
Email: None
To: Angry Man
Subject: You are too caught up in
Message:
....in your anger.
Maharaji is being blamed for protecting Jagdeo.
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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 15:52:47 (EDT)
From: Angry Man
Email: None
To: An Observer
Subject: Re: You are too caught up in
Message:
What I am angry about is the implied suggestion by some exes that Maharaji deliberately sent Jagdeo out to molest children, which is patent dog-shit.
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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 16:34:13 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Angry Man
Subject: A Question for Angry Man
Message:
Hi Angry Man,

Where did you see the implied suggestion that Maharaji deliberately sent Jagdeo out to molest children? As far as I can tell, nobody had implied this.

This does, however raise an interesting point. Many premies want to believe the worst about this site. That it's full of evil Maharaji haters. This is not the case. But it's almost like they want it to be like this to fulfill their wierd concepts.

So come on Angry Man, justify yourself please (maybe I've missed something here).

Anth the Inquisitor

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Date: Sun, Sep 05, 1999 at 21:19:48 (EDT)
From: Angry Man
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: A Question for Angry Man
Message:
This site is not full of Maharaji haters? Could have fooled me.
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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 16:04:00 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Chupacabra
Subject: Re: URL
Message:
After many years of solid dedication, this premie developed Multiple Sclerosis, and soon thereafter was asked to leave the ashram.

This is your personal issue with Maharaji that I will not judge either way because I don't know the details from yours or the other side. What I see happening all too often is people like you with a personal issue, when you see someone else's issue, you adopt their position as your own without taking time to hear the whole story -- because it just fuels your own cause. I do not jump on anybody's bandwagon without first hearing the other side. This is because over the years, I have consistently been confronted with premies' personal issues against Maharaji, but upon hearing the other side of the story, see the premie's perspective is completely unfounded. To be blunt -- they are often flakes, or emotionally unstable.

But don't get me wrong, I don't assume you or gmom to be either. Regarding what happened to Jagdeo; whether Maharaji was told about it; if so what did he do; if he did something was there any further occurances. I don't know those details. One thing I DO know is that there is another side, and it is wrong to commit to a position before hearing it. I don't plan on doing so and neither should you.

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 18:03:41 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: URL
Message:
Dear URL<
'One thing I DO know is that there is another side, and it is wrong to commit to a position before hearing it. I don't plan on doing so and neither should you.'
Sounds like that works for the lord and his group. If they deny and cover up then you won't hold them responsible. Works for them!
Robyn
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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 23:24:03 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: URL
Message:
To URL:

To be blunt, do you ever wonder why there are so many emotionally unstable 'flakes' connected to Miraji?

I always wondered why there were so many psychiatrists at the Long Beach Events.

All the Best,

Liz

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 16:56:03 (EDT)
From: Chupacabra
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: URL
Message:
URL:

I must say I am offended by the implication that, because I spoke up regarding the unethical treament of a dedicated premie, I qualify as being potentially flaky or emotionally unstable. This premie was a very good friend of mine, he was a DUO Director in a major city for years, so I knew well what was transpiring and was not projecting my personal issues onto DLM at the time. In fact, at that time, I had no personal issues with DLM of which I was aware, just the awareness that this person, bereft of funds due to the vow of poverty, needed help for vital medical care. It appeared to me, and rightly so, that we was being flung from a speeding train with no thought given to his welfare, particularly considering his grave medical condition at the time. Under the guise of being reasonable, you forward your specious arguments, and anyone who doesn't assume the position as you do, is flirting with being a 'flake' or considered 'emotionally unstable,' neither of which I am. I was fully cognizant of the facts about which I complained in order to get my friend the necessary help. I held highly responsible positions within DLM and was considered articulate and presentable enough to speak at satsangs given for the public. I mention this in order to fend off the whiff of unreliability implied by your remarks.

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 23:31:21 (EDT)
From: Liz
Email: None
To: Chupacabra
Subject: Re: URL
Message:
I'm sure you must have realized that whenever a premie becomes compassionate to another premie they are nearly always regarded as flakes......because they are not putting all their attention on saying 'Ooh & Ahh' & how 'wonderful' and 'beautiful' miragi is. There is very little compassion in Elan Vital as I have mentioned before - not because premies aren't capable of it but it seems to me it one of miragi's 'unnecessaries' for his 'divine' purpose - which is to make money.

Love,

Liz the bitter & twisted one - not.

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 18:02:02 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Chupacabra
Subject: Re: URL
Message:
I must say I am offended by the implication that, because I spoke up regarding the unethical treament of a dedicated premie, I qualify as being potentially flaky or emotionally unstable...

Please don't be offended. I explicitly said I was NOT referring to you.

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 18:01:15 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: Chupacabra
Subject: Hear, hear Chuppie!
Message:
Chupacabra: I hope you do not mind the slight modification of your moniker. Your recent posts have been nothing short of fantastic -- very well spoken, articulate and hard hitting. I ignore URL because s/he has nothing to offer here. Your defense of the ailing premie touched my heart. What premies seem to miss is that Maharaji is responsible for how his organization conducts itself. Dumping a seriously ill premie is just part of the scorched earth policy -- if it doesn't benefit the guru, get rid of it.

Keep up the good posts!

Marianne

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 18:10:42 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Hear, hear Chuppie!
Message:
Dumping a seriously ill premie is just part of the scorched earth policy -- if it doesn't benefit the guru, get rid of it.

Insightful spin Marianne (say, isn't that an oxymoron). I tell you, your heart has been 'touched' so many times by all the 'fantastic' posts of ex-premies, it's probably black and blue by now. Got any virgin flesh left on that heart of yours to hear a touching story from a premie? They have a few to tell too you know.

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 19:25:25 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: Hear, hear Chuppie!
Message:
Insightful spin Marianne (say, isn't that an oxymoron). I tell you, your heart has been 'touched' so many times by all the 'fantastic' posts of ex-premies, it's probably black and blue by now. Got any virgin flesh left on that heart of yours to hear a touching story from a premie? They have a few to tell too you know.

So why is Marianne's post 'spin'? And why hasn't your heart been touched by these stories?

I met Anth last night, and I am convinced that the victim of Jagdeo is a real person who is very angry about what happened to her, and the fact that she wasn't listened to.

I cannot understand why you continue to deny these stories. Of course, you don't know the writers, so they could all be making it up, but do you really believe that's likely? The story about the guy with MS is totally believable. That callousness was (and appears to still be) endemic within the organisation.

By his fruits you shall know him.

John.

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 20:38:31 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Hear, hear Chuppie!
Message:
And why hasn't your heart been touched by these stories?

Well, because I am not the kind who gets weak-kneed and weepy when I hear stories like this. You see, I view the ashram differently than you guys. For me, the ashram was an incredible opportunity given. It was never anybody's birthright to be there, nor was it a retirement home. They were meant -- and everybody moving in should have known this -- to be a place where you could live in direct support of Maharaji's work. The ashrams were NOT supported financially by Elan Vital, the communities, nor Maharaj, but by the individuals living there. In the case of the guy with MS you have to ask, were those individuals living in his house willing and able to pay for this person's medical bills for the rest of his life?

Another thing, the understanding of the opportunity afforded by the ashram was and should have been between the individual living there and Maharaji. People who were never in a position to appreciate that 'agreement', are not in a position to judge.

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 18:25:35 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: Hear, hear Chuppie!
Message:
Dear URL,
I started to post to you about the nasty comment you made to Marianne because these related and painful stories touch her heart. I thought better of getting into it and then was glad to read JHB's post to you which said what I was thinking better than I would have. Now this post. I started to write stupid but I am really trying not to get into angry name calling. It is not my way but reading you here is quite upsetting.
' For me, the ashram was an incredible opportunity given. It was never anybody's birthright to be there, nor was it a retirement home. They were meant -- and everybody moving in should have known this -- to be a place where you could live in direct support of Maharaji's work. The ashrams were NOT supported financially by Elan Vital, the communities, nor Maharaj, but by the individuals living there. In the case of the guy with MS you have to ask, were those individuals living in his house willing and able to pay for this person's medical bills for the rest of his life? '
Yeah, the great gift to ignore your personal needs to give all to M and then god forbid if you became, through no fault of your own, in need of some care that actually was going to cost money than just fuck you sucker, that's the spirit of that beautiful experience. Seems like your heart is all black and blue URL.
I had 2 aunts that were Roman Catholic Nuns, URL and guess what, when they grew old and could no longer be productive they were NOT considered a burden and thrown to the streets and told to be grateful for the opportunity they'd had to serve their lord and fuck themselves, no they were lovingly cared for until their dying days.
I have been staying away from this thread even though I knew it was important in general and important to me personally because I am not good at dealing with injustice and anger and dealing with thick headed premies who will not see the light of day. Christ!
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 12:55:40 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: Hear, hear Chuppie!
Message:
I had 2 aunts that were Roman Catholic Nuns, URL and guess what, when they grew old and could no longer be productive they were NOT considered a burden and thrown to the streets and told to be grateful for the opportunity they'd had to serve their lord and fuck themselves, no they were lovingly cared for until their dying days.

Robyn, for fuck sake listen -- KNOWLEDGE IS NOT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH!!!! THE ASHRAM WAS NOT SUPPORTED BY A RICH 2000 YEAR OLD INSTITUTION LIKE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. They were supported by the other people who lived in the house. Tell me, how would you have felt if you moved into a house because you wanted to support Maharaji, and ended up spending all of your money to support a couple of sick 'sisters'? I'll tell you what I'd do -- MOVE OUT!!!

And Robyn, are you such a miserable individual that you get angry and undignified WHENEVER anyone says something you disagree with. Please, please -- take your medication.

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Date: Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 14:18:32 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: Hear, hear Chuppie!
Message:
Dear URL,
'Please, please -- take your medication.'
What cha sending me!? :)
I am usually much kinder and less annoyed URL I just feel strongly about this and the other subject and your lashing out at Marianne because he has empathy and reading that you think it makes sense to gamble your future to serve M only to be thrown into the street at a time when you most need love and support.
You listen, it was said anyway that this man just needed support while he was getting his support and treatment set up.
I was not comparing the cult to the Catholic Church, dopey, I was comparing the human compassion to the lack of it in the ashram. How many premies do you think would have moved in if they knew that they be tossed out on their ear if they found themselves in need! Ugh! Seems so simple to me but I guess you just don't get it.
Do you have research to say that in the earliest days of the Catholic Church, before all the gold and the Vatican that then they did banish their sick and those with problems that neccessitated extra care?
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 16:47:29 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: Hear, hear Chuppie!
Message:
How many premies do you think would have moved in if they knew that they be tossed out on their ear if they found themselves in need!

I for one would have. I WANTED an opportunity to do something for Maharaji -- and it was a gift. And another thing, I don't know if this person was 'tossed out on their ear' like you've characterised the story.

Neither you nor I know the details or the other side, and the situation cannot be fairly evaluated unless you know those details. I'd appreciate you getting off your heal-all-the-wounded-hearts-in-the-world soap box and stop spinning for sympathies of others who are also ignorant of the details. You are being incredibly dishonest.

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 06:28:59 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Weak-kneed and weepy.
Message:
Hi Again URL,

I'm not the kind who gets weak willed and weepy either. I come from a very tough background and had to grow up fast.

Three of four times in past couple of weeks I have found tears filling my eyes. In fact URL, they're there right now. It's been when I've remembered that lovely little eight year old girl who was at Unity School with us, and when I think how that evil scumbag took her off to his room, under the guise of 'preparation for so called 'childrens knowledge' and seriously abused her.

URL can't you see what the issue is here?

Anth

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 01:00:18 (EDT)
From: Chupacabra
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: Hear, hear Chuppie!
Message:
Who said anything about medical bills being paid for the rest of his life? Your broad and misleading assumptions and misconstrued understandings are designed to create a wedge in an attempt to divert attention away from considering the ethics of the situation. We're not talking about setting up someone as a Welfare King, just common decency in providing a bridge support to aid in what must have been a horrendously difficult transition.

Also, aren't you being a bit presumptuous in assuming that persons who visit this site 'were never in a position to appreciate that agreement'? Be careful, your ego is showing.

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 14:28:12 (EDT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: Chupacabra
Subject: Where's the medical insurance?
Message:
Chuppie: One has to wonder why DLM never provided health insurance for all the ashram premies. They took all our money. They should have provided insurance for us. Undoubtedly URL would scoff at the idea of medical insurance for the ashram residents. Maybe he isn't a prison guard. Maybe URL works for an HMO! Or maybe the IRS. Or maybe Elan Vital!
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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 18:18:20 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: Know It All
Subject: Re: Where's the medical insurance?
Message:
In Denver we could go to the permie clinic - although sometimes the cure was to meditate. One of the DR's thought I could get off a siezure medication, but I decided against it - I didn't want to forget the word, have a seizure and crash a car all at the same time, forget the damage to me that's downright socially irresponsible. And yes URL I still have my medical records from 'shri hans ???' whatever the medical business was. Shucks I even got to go to the dentist. Now I never had any real medical problems.
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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 00:51:29 (EDT)
From: Ben Lurking
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: Hear, hear Chuppie!
Message:
Did you ever live in an ashram? I thought you came along after they were closed?
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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 22:16:21 (EDT)
From: Know It All
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: Hear, hear Chuppie!
Message:
So what's your vocation, prison guard?
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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 16:32:26 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: brauns@dircon.co.uk
To: URL
Subject: Re: URL
Message:
URL,

I left the ashram because my brother, also a premie, developed schizophrenia and was admitted to a psychiatric hospital. The ashram leader (what was the title, housefather?) would not allow me to visit him. It was only a half hour bus ride. This didn't put me off Maharaji because I rationalised that DLM and the ashram system were separate to Maharaji, but there are now too many stories of cruelty and insensitivity for any rational person to ignore.

John.

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 14:17:38 (EDT)
From: The Equalizer
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: URL
Message:
...and what have you done to check the allegations?
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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 12:15:34 (EDT)
From: gmom
Email: None
To: S.A.M.
Subject: Great Post S.A.M.
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 17:06:01 (EDT)
From: Secret Agent Man
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: STAY ON THE TOPIC, URL
Message:
URL,

You're a slimeball trying to slime out of this one with such statements. You are only providing another example of how deluded Premies really are.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 20:54:25 (EDT)
From: Sir Dave
Email: None
To: Secret Agent Man
Subject: Re: STAY ON THE TOPIC, URL
Message:
There is a saying: 'If you argue with a fool, there's two fools arguing.'

So I won't argue with URL.

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 18:32:55 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: Sir Dave
Subject: Re: STAY ON THE TOPIC, URL
Message:
Dear Sir,
I guess that is why I usually stay away from premies although at this time I do email 2 and find them both to be good people. To be honest I don't think URL is an ass I can see glimpses of compassion which I think he/she is trying hard to ignore to spit out the party line.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 13:59:30 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: STAY ON THE TOPIC, URL
Message:
I guess that is why I usually stay away from premies although at this time I do email 2 and find them both to be good people. To be honest I don't think URL is an ass I can see glimpses of compassion which I think he/she is trying hard to ignore to spit out the party line.

Robyn, I just realised where you are coming from. You are SO, SO stuck on Maharaji being a fraud that you cannot comprehend FOR A SECOND someone not being of the same persuasion as you. Your whole framework depends upon Maharaji being a fraud. When someone like myself comes along with a position counter to yours, you get inordinately upset and indignant -- it challenges your very foundation of existence. Your knee-jerk reaction is to think me dense, stupid, corrupt, slimy, dishonest ... blah, blah, blah. Well my dear Robyn, I am none of those things, and if you met me you would be shocked to see that I in no way resemble the person you have so patently demonised.

So get used to it -- you are but one perspective in a vast universe of human experience. No matter how hard you and your web-mates struggle to prove otherwise, there are many people like myself who know Maharaji is not a fraud, and know Knowledge is real. This gives us the basis to weather the kinds of scandals around the allegations against Jagdeo, Fakiranand, etc. I suggest you get out more.

There have been many premies over the years who have fucked up - some more royally than others. How he's dealt with these people we generally know little about, and what we do see is only from a distance. The doubters like yourself fill this distance with suspicion and scandal. Those who know of his integrity trust him to handle his own affairs, giving him latitude -- to misread situations if it happens or make a wrong call. In the end for those who stick with him, it's always his personal integrity that overshadows the actions of his followers.

Perhaps you can offer your wisdom Robyn - if you were Master, how would you condemn the sin without abandoning to their self-created hell the sinner?

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Date: Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 14:26:28 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: STAY ON THE TOPIC, URL
Message:
Dear URL,
I said you weren't, weren't an ass! That is were not!
I am a goddess you know, of Robynism, do you want to get on the mailing list!?
Your post actually had me laughing! To funny, me not allowing for others opinions!!! You are a riot! Let me guess you are a comedian, right?
I am far from stuck on anything about M. I rarely even think about him and usually am only here for the social side but I happen to take child abuse and sucking everything out of a person who has devoted their lives to M and is thrown out like so much trash seriously!
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 18:52:40 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: STAY ON THE TOPIC, URL
Message:
Your post actually had me laughing! To funny, me not allowing for others opinions!!! You are a riot! Let me guess you are a comedian, right?

Well I'm glad to see you can laugh Robyn my girl. Guess you can imagine how I feel when people characterise me as slimy, hypocritical and not able to think for myself. Real funny!

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Date: Tues, Sep 07, 1999 at 21:28:55 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: STAY ON THE TOPIC, URL
Message:
Dear URL,
I wasn't aware that I'd called you slimy, hypocritical or not able to think for yourself, wheere?
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 13:02:30 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: STAY ON THE TOPIC, URL
Message:
Not you silly. These are regular insults I've received posting on this site. Funny thing is I got it, to name just two, from Nigel and Jim who were caught respectively, lying and covering for a lie another ex told.

God but we must learn to see through our differences!

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Date: Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 19:05:07 (EDT)
From: Robyn
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Re: STAY ON THE TOPIC, URL
Message:
Dear URL,
Missed it, don't read all the posts anymore haven't for a long time.
My favorite quote by Nigel to a premie though is (not exact quote):
'Go fuck yourself or give me a ring, whatever.'
Some of his best work as a writer, I think.
I don't know you URL. This is the first time I've been reading you.
Love,
Robyn
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Date: Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 19:36:36 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: STAY ON THE TOPIC, URL
Message:
Tell me Robyn, just out of curiosity, is the creative use of the word 'fuck' how you define excellence in the use of the English language?
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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 18:25:24 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Secret Agent Man
Subject: PAY ATTENTION SAM
Message:
I am not trying to 'slime' out of anything. On the other hand, I would like to see the air cleared. My response to Dave was to his air-headed claim that, and I quote, '...I believe that if Jagdeo did abuse children then he was as much a victim of Maharaji's regime as the children who were abused. Because if he had been allowed to lead a normal life with normal sexual activity with someone of his own generation, perhaps he would have not become a child abuser. '

So I really don't think I'm an example of anything other than someone capable of challenging an irrational statement by a simple minded individual. Sir Dave, and now you, on the other hand, are more examples of the prevailing mentality of ex-premies to blame Maharaji for as many of the ills in their own and others' lives as they can dump on him.

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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 14:21:49 (EDT)
From: Marianne
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Dear Glen...
Message:
And Glen, another significant step towards healing would be for M to publicly apologize for Jagseo's behavior, and for EV/DLM to generously compensate the victims for their pain and suffering.

Marianne

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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 15:44:51 (EDT)
From: Chupacabra
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Dear Glen...
Message:
As much as I would love to see such events transpire, it would take a paradigm shift of millennial proportions to evoke an apology, never mind forking over some cold hard cash. The awareness required for an apology would by definition necessitate giving up the ungodly ruse.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 15:39:47 (EDT)
From: Chupacabra
Email: None
To: Marianne
Subject: Re: Dear Glen...
Message:
nt
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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 16:01:51 (EDT)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: Everyone
Subject: Thread of truth
Message:
Hello everyone, It's been awhile but the reaction of DLM/EV to this issue is impossible to stomach without spitting out something. As a 25 year club member (former) I'm outraged that Maharaji's organization is making its best effort to sweep this under the rug. The lack of response by the leader is unreasonable and difficult to comprehend. His current premies should be the first to demand a thorough investigation of this issue. If they do not they are, in my opinion co-conspirators in these crimes. Being the leader of an large organization entails responsibility and awareness. It appears both are sorely lacking here. I would not be surprised if this organization is not filled with lapses of integrity and commitment. Kicking someone out of the Ashram because they develop multiple sclerosis should be the preview to every introductory video shown world wide. It just about says it all.

Zac the pissed off

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 18:49:45 (EDT)
From: AJW
Email: None
To: Zac
Subject: Some Premies Care.
Message:
Hi Zac,

Some premies are seeing this stuff in perspective. There's an established premie community in the area where Jagdeo's offences took place. Since the story broke, naturally things have been buzzing in 'the village'. One of the old time premies down there contacted me and expressed the concerns of some of the premies in the community on the matter.

(Lots of the premies in the area know me well, and also knew the victim well. To their credit, their concerns were:

1. I wasn't running off on some gungho mission, 'using' the victim in some act of vengence, without concern for what affect these allegations would have on her.

2. They wanted to know if the matter had been reported to the Police.

After I'd explained that I hadn't made a move without the victims full support and approval, and the matter had been reported to the police, I was told that the victim and I had their full support.

So good on you Cornish premies. And thank you.

Anth dealing with it drekly.

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 21:11:57 (EDT)
From: Zac
Email: None
To: AJW
Subject: Re: Some Premies Care.
Message:
Hi Anth and Roger D., Bravo, to the English premies of Cornish! I'm hopeful that many of the premies in other parts feel similar and I hope they express themselves in their communities and to the 'big cheese' directly. Way to hang in there Anth and G's-mom, May the force be with you! Z
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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 16:45:01 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek
Email: None
To: Zac
Subject: ***Best of Forum*** for Chupacabra and Zac
Message:
***Best of the Forum*** at Roger's House of Maharaji Drek

Dedicate your life to me and live in my Ashram, but don't get sick and become a burden or out you go!

What a callous self-serving asshole! Wait, I get it. It's some kind of wonderful lila!

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Date: Wed, Sep 01, 1999 at 23:12:06 (EDT)
From: Enough
Email: None
To: All
Subject: All the samecomments please
Message:
So is religion vs. cult all the same except for volume of membership. Maharaji is stupid, of course, but why should we suspect Jesus, Buudha, Khrishna, etc. not to be pulling the same con game.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 10:41:20 (EDT)
From: MIND FILTER
Email: EARTH
To: Enough
Subject: Re: All the samecomments please
Message:
No NONE are/WERE 'stupid' : they ALL thought they did/do... THEIR BEST !
Just depending on TIME-Self Consciousness !
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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 05:45:37 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Enough
Subject: You're right, we shouldn't
Message:
Duh!
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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 11:26:15 (EDT)
From: Skypilot
Email: None
To: Jim and Enough
Subject: Why shouldn't we?
Message:
Jim,
Are you saying is that Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Moses, Mohammed, Nanak, Saint Francis, Rumi, Lalla, Ekhardt, Kabir, Lao-tze, Zoroaster, Baha'ullah, Hildegard, Dogen and all the other masters that have been revered for hundreds of years, were all out to con us?

Are you saying that all these great spiritual beings who brought civilization and comfort to the world, and who have been revered for centuries, are all full of shit? And by implication, YOU'RE not!

Is that what you're saying Jim?
=================================

Enough,
Cult comes from the word culture. All religions started off as cults. Romans persecuted Christians until Emperor Constantine converted. Or was he conned?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 11:29:59 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Skypilot
Subject: Well, it's like this
Message:
First of all, they were all wrong. That's the first thing. None of them were messengers of God, let alone God incarnate.

Secondly, some of them, perhaps most, actually believed their own bullshit. So they were conning themselves as much as anyone else, I guess.

Why? What do you think?

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 19:29:05 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: mcpass1@earthlink.net
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Well, it's like this.....really?
Message:
Hey Jim,

Didn't anybody ever teach you to state your case without judgement? As in, 'that's not my cup of tea' or something like that, instead of saying 'wrong', and in in bold no less. You are anti-everyone who ever came in peace now, not just Maharaji. Now it's not just Maharaji, but Jesus, Buddha, and all the rest are con artists too? You may have cleaned up your snytax to stay online, but you haven't changed a bit since I was here last, perhaps you are more depressed and hurting inside about all that has gone down in the name of God in your personal life. Welcome to the human race. Everybody hurts about something. And everybody can feel good about something too.

The actual people you mention could have quite possibly been right on, and those who came after could have quite possibly perverted the message. Maybe that's what you hate and abhor, not the essential message. I feel that you long for love to rule the world as much if not more than anyone here. And that is why you are so pissed, because things ain't perfect yet.
A suggestion: work on yourself.

May God bless you Jim and open your eyes and heart inside whether or not you ever go to church, synagogue, mosque or Maharaji ever again. Our bodies are our temples. What is on your alter?

All the best,
Shp

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 21:09:21 (EDT)
From: JHB
Email: None
To: Shp
Subject: Re: Well, it's like this.....really?
Message:
SHP,

It's been asked above, but did you get a reply from Maharaji regarding Jagdeo?

John

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Date: Sat, Sep 04, 1999 at 21:29:35 (EDT)
From: Shp
Email: None
To: JHB
Subject: Re: Well, it's like this.....really?
Message:
No.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 20:47:27 (EDT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: GMJ and others
Message:
Goom Rodgie is a patent fraud. But, Jim, don't you think that your involvement with him colors (Paint It Black!) your perception of other spiritual teachers? Some of them had good things to say about how to deal with this vale of tears....ethically, philosophically, and (not for you) spiritually.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 21:31:16 (EDT)
From: Jim
Email: None
To: Gregg
Subject: Re: GMJ and others
Message:
Gregg,

I do think fatso spoiled my view but since then I've moved to a different window anyway. But I still believed in higher consciousness and all that after the cult. For a while I was into Terence McKenna, Joseph Chilton Pearce, a little this, a little that. Evolution spoiled it all for me, I'm afraid.

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Date: Fri, Sep 03, 1999 at 09:08:20 (EDT)
From: Gregg
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: GMJ and others
Message:
Evolution! I knew it! It's those crafty secular humanists! They've stolen your soul! Ever since they took prayer out of the public schools, this world's been going to hell in a handbasket.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 16:19:21 (EDT)
From: Barbara
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Well, it's like this
Message:
'First of all, they (Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Moses, Mohammed, Nanak, Saint Francis, Rumi, Lalla, Ekhardt, Kabir, Lao-tze, Zoroaster etc.) were all wrong. That's the first thing. None of them were messengers of God, let alone God incarnate.

Secondly, some of them, perhaps most, actually believed their own bullshit. So they were conning themselves as much as anyone else, I guess.

Why? What do you think? '

I think you're perhaps the biggest horse's ass with the most massive, delusionary over-inflated view of yourself that I've ever encountered. Your perspective on history is laughable. Your understanding of different people and cultures is non-existent. You're so easily dazzled by your own words. These qualities make you, perhaps, the perfect candidate to lead the current 'charge' against Maharaji.

I'm sure you'll be remembered with far greater love and veneration than any of these characters, including Maharaji, by future generations. Monuments to your towering intellect will likely be erected on all continents...and when the name Jim Heller is uttered, people of every age, variety and nationality will utter one word, as if they were one...

Who?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 16:29:49 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Barbara
Subject: Re: Well, it's like this
Message:
Careful Barb, we don't want to encourage the lad. An ego like his will take infamy in the absence of fame -- you know, as long as he leaves his mark. I think Judas had the same inclination -- someone Jim no doubt admires.
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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 20:34:06 (EDT)
From: Roger E. Drek
Email: None
To: URL
Subject: Oh no, the reference to Judas! (nt)
Message:
nt
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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 13:19:20 (EDT)
From: URL
Email: None
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Well, it's like this
Message:
You know Jim, if what you say is true, then you have got to be one of the smartest men alive! No, I mean it. As a matter of fact, YOU could be the ONE who is destined to save the world, and not Maharaji. I mean, surely the scars left on the human psyche by all of these past charlatans need to be healed, and raw intellegence, like the kind you display, MUST be the healing balm the world has been waiting for.

And I just bet the media will go along with you because, as we all know -- if you want the truth, they are the source you can count on. Can we expect your picture on the cover of New Yorker magazine when they run their 'Smartest Man Alive' feature (or is it the Sunday Express)?

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Date: Thurs, Sep 02, 1999 at 12:20:04 (EDT)
From: MIND FILTER
Email: EARTH
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Well, it's like this
Message:
YES something like this !
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