Ex-Premie.Org

Forum II Archive # 9

From: Mar 7, 1998

To: Mar 14, 1998

Page: 3 Of: 5


VP back from vacation -:- The Guru Papers -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 00:42:38 (EST)
___gumby -:- Re: The Guru Papers -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 00:46:48 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: The Guru Papers -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 01:12:42 (EST)
___John Cavad -:- Re: The Guru Papers -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 01:18:40 (EST)
___John Cavad -:- Re: The Guru Papers -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 01:21:25 (EST)
___Steve A -:- Re: The Guru Papers -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 01:30:08 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: The Guru Papers -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 01:39:03 (EST)
___Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: The Guru Papers -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 02:56:38 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: The Guru Papers -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 09:25:55 (EST)
___Steve A -:- Re: The Guru Papers -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 21:19:45 (EST)
___gumby -:- Re: The Guru Papers -:- Fri, Mar 13, 1998 at 02:01:37 (EST)

John Cavad -:- Web Site Effectiveness: Status Report -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 17:51:28 (EST)
___John Cavad -:- Re: Web Site Effectiveness: Status Report -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 17:53:47 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: Web Site Effectiveness: Status Report -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 22:06:00 (EST)
___John Cavad -:- Re: Web Site Effectiveness: Status Report -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 01:10:31 (EST)
___a fan -:- Re: Web Site Effectiveness: Status Report -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 12:33:50 (EST)

Mr Ex -:- Premie.org is alive! -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 04:45:04 (EST)
___Brian G -:- Thanks for the info -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 15:41:46 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Knowledge review on line -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 16:42:12 (EST)
___Good to see -:- Your heart's in the right place -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 17:55:43 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- If you call that alive... -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 18:11:55 (EST)
___David -:- Re: Knowledge review on line -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 20:31:45 (EST)
___Katie on vacation -:- Re: Premie.org is alive! -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 20:47:03 (EST)
___Aesop -:- Another Cool Parable -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 21:41:26 (EST)
___And On Anand Ji -:- Re: Knowledge review on line -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 22:07:40 (EST)
___And On Anand Ji -:- Re: If you call that alive... -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 22:18:09 (EST)
___Aesop's fables. -:- Your moral of the story is insulting and shortsighted. -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 23:01:27 (EST)
___David -:- Re: Another Cool Parable -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 01:36:33 (EST)
___David -:- Re: Your moral of the story is insulting and shortsighted. -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 01:48:02 (EST)
___Anon -:- Re: Another Cool Parable -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 06:15:26 (EST)
___ex-mug -:- The Ass in the Lion's Skin -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 06:17:54 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Another Cool Parable -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 09:32:09 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Your moral of the story is insulting and shortsighted. -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 09:40:06 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Your moral of the story is insulting and shortsighted. -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 09:50:47 (EST)
___John K. -:- Re: Another Cool Parable -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 10:22:10 (EST)
___Are you sure -:- this is a fable? -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 13:56:12 (EST)
___Anon. -:- Re: Your moral of the story is insulting and shortsighted. -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 14:31:52 (EST)
___Student -:- Re: Another Cool Parable -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 14:55:27 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Another Cool Parable -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 15:53:48 (EST)
___Aesop -:- Re: Another Cool Parable -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 16:28:02 (EST)
___Aesop -:- Re: Another Cool Parable -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 16:33:28 (EST)
___Student -:- Re: Another Cool Parable -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 16:55:32 (EST)
___Aesop -:- Re: this is a fable? -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 17:30:19 (EST)
___Stupid comments: -:- There are more where that came from -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 19:00:24 (EST)
___Aesop -:- Re: There are more where that came from -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 20:35:25 (EST)
___More programmed zealots -:- after the article arrives. -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 20:38:02 (EST)
___Good one ex-mug -:- The Ass in the Lion's Skin -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 20:41:22 (EST)
___Aesop -:- Re: after the article arrives. -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 20:44:37 (EST)
___Pin Head -:- Re: The Ass in the Lion's Skin -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 20:47:45 (EST)
___Katie -:- A fan letter to ex-mug -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 20:59:27 (EST)
___Aesop -:- Re: A fan letter to ex-mug -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 21:04:20 (EST)
___Aesop -:- Re: A fan letter to ex-mug -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 21:09:49 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: A fan letter to ex-mug -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 21:13:57 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: A fan letter to ex-mug -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 21:45:02 (EST)
___Closed minded to -:- old dogma. -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 22:19:41 (EST)
___Closed minded to -:- old dogma. -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 22:20:06 (EST)
___Closed minded to -:- old dogma. -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 22:23:09 (EST)
___Closed minded to -:- old dogma. -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 22:23:47 (EST)
___you know me so well... -:- Ha! -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 23:28:40 (EST)
___And On Anand Ji -:- Re: this is a fable? -:- Fri, Mar 13, 1998 at 00:42:59 (EST)
___And On Anand Ji -:- Re: A fan letter to ex-mug -:- Fri, Mar 13, 1998 at 01:07:45 (EST)
___ex-mug -:- Re: this is a fable? -:- Fri, Mar 13, 1998 at 05:35:38 (EST)
___ex-mug -:- Re: A fan letter to ex-mug -:- Fri, Mar 13, 1998 at 05:41:54 (EST)

Mili -:- There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too! -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 03:53:18 (EST)
___David -:- Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too! -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 09:12:14 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too! -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 09:53:06 (EST)
___John K. -:- From BO to PO -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 09:57:05 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- 'Probably' Padha -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 09:57:53 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too! -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 10:03:07 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: From BO to PO -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 10:11:03 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: 'Probably' Padha -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 10:41:39 (EST)
___David -:- Re: 'Probably' Padha -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 12:37:51 (EST)
___David -:- Re: 'Probably' Padha -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 12:49:47 (EST)
___John K. -:- The Buddha Bash! -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 13:10:39 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: The Buddha Bash! -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 13:27:12 (EST)
___And On Anand Ji -:- Re: The Buddha Bash! -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 14:10:29 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: 'Probably' Padha -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 14:36:18 (EST)
___JohnK -:- I think we agree! -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 16:25:31 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: I think we agree! -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 18:07:12 (EST)
___Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: From BO to PO -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 20:39:36 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too! -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 21:15:47 (EST)
___And On Anand Ji -:- Re: I think we agree! -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 22:38:08 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: From BO to PO -:- Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 23:49:12 (EST)
___The bus came by -:- and I got on ... -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 00:04:33 (EST)
___David -:- Re: and I got on ... -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 02:10:35 (EST)
___Mili -:- Re: Yeshua -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 02:32:55 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: and I got on ... -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 09:12:22 (EST)
___John K. -:- Love and Kisses to All! -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 11:15:22 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: and I got on ... -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 13:49:55 (EST)
___Will -:- The perogative of the Big Mama. -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 21:03:04 (EST)
___thats when it -:- all began. -:- Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 21:24:59 (EST)
___And On Anand Ji -:- Re: Love and Kisses to All! -:- Fri, Mar 13, 1998 at 01:30:54 (EST)



Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 00:42:38 (EST)
Poster: VP back from vacation
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: The Guru Papers
Message:
I just got The Guru Papers and I can't put it down. I'm one third of the way through and there is more 'knowledge' in that book than in a K session. Some things that I did not know about gurus and cults that the book has so far revealed: 1) How the Eastern based cults like the DLM are appealing to Westerners 2) Characteristics of the people who join cults and why they are seduced 3) Techniques employed by Gurus to maintain dominance 4) How the gurus abuse power 5) How cult members are seperated from others and how this is reinforced For anyone out there who is questioning-aspirants or maybe premies, this is a must read. (It is on the recommended reading list on this site. That's how I heard about it) I'd like to leave you with this quote: 'With some it is fashionable to denigrate reason and elevate emotion or intuition in an attempt to transcend the dryness of mechanistic science and linear thought. But using emotion or intuition without reason is as one-sided and limited as using reason alone. For just as the head without the heart is barren, the heart without the head is rigid and chaotic. Living creatively is the art of combining passion with understanding. Without reason, one easily becomes a 'true believer' who takes on beliefs that generate wanted emotions. Here, when thought is used, it functions to protect these beliefs by building an impregnable, closed sustem that is impenetrable to logic, experiences that do not fit, and inconsistencies (whether behavioral or mental).' -Joel Kramer and Diane Alstad
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 00:46:48 (EST)
Poster: gumby
Email:
To: VP back from vacation
Subject: Re: The Guru Papers
Message:
Hi there, Where can one find this book? Grace and God be with you. -gumby
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 01:12:42 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: gumby
Subject: Re: The Guru Papers
Message:
Hi there, Where can one find this book? Grace and God be with you. -gumby Gumby, I ordered it from a local bookstore, Borders. I'm sure that it could be ordered from any bookstore (Barnes and Noble, Walden, B. Dalton, etc.) It took a couple of weeks for me to receive it. Good Luck! Sincerely, VP
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 01:18:40 (EST)
Poster: John Cavad
Email:
To: VP back from vacation
Subject: Re: The Guru Papers
Message:
VP, we're proud of you reading this new Bible for ex-premies. I, along with many others, have already read this book. I keep it with me every moment like Billy Graham keeps his St. James version of the Bible. This book is very intense and packed with an overwhelming amount of truth. Read it twice.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 01:21:25 (EST)
Poster: John Cavad
Email:
To: Anyone
Subject: Re: The Guru Papers
Message:
You can order it off the internet and get it in less than three days. amazon.com (bookstore)
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 01:30:08 (EST)
Poster: Steve A
Email: steve.allison@lion-nathan.com.au
To: VP back from vacation
Subject: Re: The Guru Papers
Message:
Welcome back to the real world VP. What always kept me hooked was that GMJ constantly reminded us that we poor Premies could not 'realize knowledge' without him. In time I wondered how he could 'realize knowledge' at age 6 and yet Premies who meditated for hours each day for many years and gave up their very lives for him never seemed any closer to realizing knowledge than the day they started. It was as if he constantly raised the bar and any progress we felt we were making was religated to an ego trip. The Guru kept his power by exhaulting himself and denegrating even his most devoted followers. The feelings of guilt and shame continued to keep us ever reliant on the divine one for guidance even in the simplest of lifes challenges. Wake up Premies, each of us must control our own destiny.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 01:39:03 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: John Cavad
Subject: Re: The Guru Papers
Message:
VP, we're proud of you reading this new Bible for ex-premies. I, along with many others, have already read this book. I keep it with me every moment like Billy Graham keeps his St. James version of the Bible. This book is very intense and packed with an overwhelming amount of truth. Read it twice. Thanks for the advice, John. I plan to read it again once I get finished with the first read. The book does point out a lot of truths. There is some interesting discussion about how authortarian our world is- parenting, school, church, etc. (aside from the cult information.) We are programmed to slip right into this role of surrender. No wonder in the beginning a cult feels so natural to us- so right... even though it is so wrong.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 02:56:38 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: gumby
Subject: Re: The Guru Papers
Message:
Hi there, Where can one find this book? Grace and God be with you. -gumby Hi gumby, I'm reading a copy from the library. Off topic, would you e-mail me? I have some off-line questions for you. Regards, Michael
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 09:25:55 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Steve A
Subject: Re: The Guru Papers
Message:
I believe we must be a big part in our own destiny but I also believe 'our path' in this life, our greater purpose is to work through certain lessons and that each life gives us the opportunity to get it right on the next try or to move on to the next steps. A friend of mine is very into The Great Spirit and the messages sent to us through nature and I have had some powerful messages of this type. I also have had many experiences with 'coincidences', deja vu, dreams, and intensly strong physical sensations with no explination to have me believe in the fact that this life is so much more than what appears on the surface. So what I am saying is that our destiny, in my opinion, is a joint venture.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 21:19:45 (EST)
Poster: Steve A
Email: steve.allison@lion-nathan.com.au
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: The Guru Papers
Message:
I like the sound of that, 'joint venture'. I too believe that life is not a mere set of chance occurences, there is purpose to every experience, something positive to learn from everything that happens to us, these experiences and learnings ultimately help us realize our true nature as children of God. With each day that passes I understand more and more of what is happening to me and I see reason in just about everything that happens in my life. This is very uplifting, knowing that we do have purpose and that this life is not just mere existence. To Robyn and all those reading this, I hope your 'joint venture' is just as fulfilling as mine.
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Date: Fri, Mar 13, 1998 at 02:01:37 (EST)
Poster: gumby
Email: megumby@hotmail.com
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Re: The Guru Papers
Message:
Hi Michael, Did you get my email? -gumby
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 17:51:28 (EST)
Poster: John Cavad
Email: johncavad@yahoo.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Web Site Effectiveness: Status Report
Message:
Congratulations to everyone who helped create and contribute to this informative web site. It's probably the only one of its kind on the internet. You have all helped instill doubt into the minds of many aspirants; helped former premies find closure or at least come to closer terms with the truth; totally pissed off many practicing premies. With the new page format on 'Journeys,' my last name shows up first. Thus, many surfers read my entry rather than scroll for another unknown name. I have received some email from around the world from aspirants asking questions, filled with concerns about GMJ. Success!!! Of course, I am bound to get my share of hate mail too. Entertainment!!!! Truly, we are all doing a great service to humanity by keeping the web pages highly prof
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 17:53:47 (EST)
Poster: John Cavad
Email:
To: John Cavad
Subject: Re: Web Site Effectiveness: Status Report
Message:
Congratulations to everyone who helped create and contribute to this informative web site. It's probably the only one of its kind on the internet. You have all helped instill doubt into the minds of many aspirants; helped former premies find closure or at least come to closer terms with the truth; totally pissed off many practicing premies. With the new page format on 'Journeys,' my last name shows up first. Thus, many surfers read my entry rather than scroll for another unknown name. I have received some email from around the world from aspirants asking questions, filled with concerns about GMJ. Success!!! Of course, I am bound to get my share of hate mail too. Entertainment!!!! Truly, we are all doing a great service to humanity by keeping the web pages highly prof Truly, we are all doing a great service to humanity by keeping the web pages highly professional, informative and sincere. Someone tell, do we have a counter on these pages? How many hits are we getting?
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 22:06:00 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: John Cavad
Subject: Re: Web Site Effectiveness: Status Report
Message:
With the new page format on 'Journeys,' my last name shows up first. Thus, many surfers read my entry rather than scroll for another unknown name. I have received some email from around the world from aspirants asking questions, filled with concerns about GMJ. Success!!! Of course, I am bound to get my share of hate mail too. Entertainment!!!! I hadn't thought of that. Let me know if you get too swamped and I'll see if I can come up with another way of listing them. You might have to change your name spelling to Zjohn Zcavad, though...
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 01:10:31 (EST)
Poster: John Cavad
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Web Site Effectiveness: Status Report
Message:
Thanks, Brian. Actually, I'm not getting swamped at all. I could use some more fan mail as a matter of fact.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 12:33:50 (EST)
Poster: a fan
Email:
To: John Cavad
Subject: Re: Web Site Effectiveness: Status Report
Message:
your the bomb Johnny
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 04:45:04 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Premie.org is alive!
Message:
It looks like the site is coming back to life ... Horrible picture on the welcome page!
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 15:41:46 (EST)
Poster: Brian G
Email: B
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Thanks for the info (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Thanks Mr Ex . I've been wanting to go to a programme for ages and now I dont have to ring old premie friends to find the times and venues etc. All I seem to do at the moment is work, pay the mortgage, work, pay bills. Jesus... life was much better when I practiced knowledge. It slowed me right down and gave me time to look around and appreciate how lucky I really was. Thanks and best wishes to you all.
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 16:42:12 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Brian G
Subject: Knowledge review on line (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
If they don't give k reviews on this premie.org web-site, I intend to do it myself on my web-site (under construction). Group meditation and reviews on the forum, and private counseling on line. What do you think? Mr Rawat is going to be pissed, that's enough to give me a lot of pleasure ....
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 17:55:43 (EST)
Poster: Good to see
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Your heart's in the right place (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
If they don't give k reviews on this premie.org web-site, I intend to do it myself on my web-site (under construction). Group meditation and reviews on the forum, and private counseling on line. What do you think? Mr Rawat is going to be pissed, that's enough to give me a lot of pleasure .... Keep up the good work ex. Pure motives are always touching to see.
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 18:11:55 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: If you call that alive... (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
It looks like the site is coming back to life ... Horrible picture on the welcome page! It's completely non-interactive. Less informative than a phone book.
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 20:31:45 (EST)
Poster: David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Knowledge review on line (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Very good idea. The reason I received the four techniques was not to become a devotee of a man called Prempal Singh Rawat but to have an experience that was fulfilling and to become closer to God. The first night I received satsang I remember praying to God and thanking him for letting me know about this experience. After I received the meditation techniques I had a wonderful experience from meditation, the following day. For those who want to meditate, the meditation techniques do work. It is a pity that Maharaji has used people's personal experiences from meditation for his own ends. Even now, I cannot understand why he does this. There are many people who would benefit from this meditation and such a thing should not be kept a secret or made impossible for people to achieve. You may have read earlier how I showed a close friend of mine two of the techniques of meditation. I had a very powerful experience in doing so. It reminded me of the days when I used to get high giving satsang. We don't need to follow the dictates and dogma of a Hindu self styled god. We are free people. Free to say what we want and use our experience for the benefit of other people without them having to go through Maharaji's obstical course. Of all the people who go through the aspirant obstical course, how many actually have an experience from meditation afterwards?? Very few I would think. In the days when I received Knowledge you didn't have to wait. All I had to do was turn up at the Knowledge session. This waiting game of Maharaji's is clearly to condition people into becoming his devotees. Even now I cannot believe the audacity of Maharaji to want people to believe he is God when he knows perfectly well that he isn't. Councelling is very important for people who sincerely want to meditate. If there is a confusion then it needs to be resolved so that one can relax into meditation. Nothing but good can come from your ideas, Mr Ex.
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 20:47:03 (EST)
Poster: Katie on vacation
Email: gone fishing
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Premie.org is alive!
Message:
It looks like the site is coming back to life ... Horrible picture on the welcome page! Yes, I much preferred Mili's picture of the Adriatic by moonlight... P.S. I owe you an e-mail, Mr. Ex! I haven't forgotten.
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 21:41:26 (EST)
Poster: Aesop
Email:
To: David
Subject: Another Cool Parable (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Very good idea. The reason I received the four techniques was not to become a devotee of a man called Prempal Singh Rawat but to have an experience that was fulfilling and to become closer to God. The first night I received satsang I remember praying to God and thanking him for letting me know about this experience. After I received the meditation techniques I had a wonderful experience from meditation, the following day. For those who want to meditate, the meditation techniques do work. It is a pity that Maharaji has used people's personal experiences from meditation for his own ends. Even now, I cannot understand why he does this. There are many people who would benefit from this meditation and such a thing should not be kept a secret or made impossible for people to achieve. You may have read earlier how I showed a close friend of mine two of the techniques of meditation. I had a very powerful experience in doing so. It reminded me of the days when I used to get high giving satsang. We don't need to follow the dictates and dogma of a Hindu self styled god. We are free people. Free to say what we want and use our experience for the benefit of other people without them having to go through Maharaji's obstical course. Of all the people who go through the aspirant obstical course, how many actually have an experience from meditation afterwards?? Very few I would think. In the days when I received Knowledge you didn't have to wait. All I had to do was turn up at the Knowledge session. This waiting game of Maharaji's is clearly to condition people into becoming his devotees. Even now I cannot believe the audacity of Maharaji to want people to believe he is God when he knows perfectly well that he isn't. Councelling is very important for people who sincerely want to meditate. If there is a confusion then it needs to be resolved so that one can relax into meditation. Nothing but good can come from your ideas, Mr Ex. There was a man who made an offer to people to take them on a train ride from the remote outpost where they had found themselves through inhospitable terrain. Many took him up on the offer because they did not like this place they had come to. But there was a secret that was not understood by all who traveled - that the joy of the ride would be had in the journey, not in the destination. Many lost faith while waiting to get to a destination, and jumped off the train ending up in a dry and desolate desert. Those who stayed on the train to this day still enjoy the ride and have found their home within the journey itself. But for the ones who jumped there is hurt, and pain. Well, what did they expect? He did come to them on many occasions and implored them to stay on board but some chose not to and jumped. Why they blame him for their pain is very hard to understand, especially for those who look back at them from the windows of the train. After all, they chose to get on board, and they also chose to jump off. Moral: Take responsibility for your own actions and you'll never have to find someone else to blame for your pain but yourself. And THAT will greatly simplify your life.
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 22:07:40 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji
Email: aoa
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Knowledge review on line (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
If they don't give k reviews on this premie.org web-site, I intend to do it myself on my web-site (under construction). Group meditation and reviews on the forum, and private counseling on line. What do you think? Mr Rawat is going to be pissed, that's enough to give me a lot of pleasure ....Are you going to wear the crown and coat? :)
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 22:18:09 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji
Email: aoa
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: If you call that alive... (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
It looks like the site is coming back to life ... Horrible picture on the welcome page! It's completely non-interactive. Less informative than a phone book. The source code says 'jai satchitanand!'
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 23:01:27 (EST)
Poster: Aesop's fables.
Email: BB
To: Aesop
Subject: Your moral of the story is insulting and shortsighted. (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
OK, fine, it is ultimately my responsibility. Moderation in everything is perhaps the best. But in all fairness to us don't you think that coming the way he did, Proclaiming to be the lord, very strongly acting out the part (in his words anyway,) And growling at us about the consequences of not understanding and accepting him. And getting our hopes way, way up that he is telling the truth and we are under the ultimate rulers guidance as he claims his creatures in this age of easy transportation and communication. For you to dismiss all that as nothing but our lack of taking responsibility for our own actions is VERY confused and small minded of you. Once in the darshan line a guy said 'stop that' to some security gaurd that pushed him too quick and maharji roared 'Those are my creatures too! If you are riding the train- who is conducting?
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 01:36:33 (EST)
Poster: David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Aesop
Subject: Re: Another Cool Parable (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Why did you tag your 'parable' onto the end of my post? It clearly had nothing to do with my post. I was talking about making a good experience abailable to anyone who has an interest. You are making up parables based on your concept of what you think we are about and yet you are not even reading our posts. You are not communicating but are, in fact, talking to yourself.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 01:48:02 (EST)
Poster: David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: You
Subject: Re: Your moral of the story is insulting and shortsighted. (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Terry Waite spend several long and agonising years locked up alone in a room in Beirut. He suffered terribly and his fellow captures said that they first realised that another hostage was in the adjoining room because they could hear a man moaning in pain. Following the logic of the parable above, since Terry Waite had voluntered to go to Beirut to negotiate with the terrorists, he only had himself to blame for his suffering since he was responsible for his actions. In the real world, we are not always in control of what happens to us and cannot take the blame ourselves for our suffering. Would Aesop consider that a woman who had been raped, only had herself to blame?
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 06:15:26 (EST)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Aesop
Subject: Re: Another Cool Parable (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
There was a man who made an offer to people to take them on a train ride from the remote outpost where they had found themselves through inhospitable terrain. Many took him up on the offer because they did not like this place they had come to. But there was a secret that was not understood by all who traveled - that the joy of the ride would be had in the journey, not in the destination. Many lost faith while waiting to get to a destination, and jumped off the train ending up in a dry and desolate desert. Those who stayed on the train to this day still enjoy the ride and have found their home within the journey itself. But for the ones who jumped there is hurt, and pain. Well, what did they expect? He did come to them on many occasions and implored them to stay on board but some chose not to and jumped. Why they blame him for their pain is very hard to understand, especially for those who look back at them from the windows of the train. After all, they chose to get on board, and they also chose to jump off. Moral: Take responsibility for your own actions and you'll never have to find someone else to blame for your pain but yourself. And THAT will greatly simplify your life. Just one question Aesop, regarding: But there was a secret that was not understood by all who traveled - that the joy of the ride would be had in the journey, not in the destination. Why was that information made secret? Incidently the pain that ex-premies express is NOT pain from jumping off the train (which is what you imply). Quite the contrary. The pain they bemoan is the pain that was inflicted upon them during this infernal train ride that you assume is so wonderful . Your parable confirms (as suggested by another post recently) that Maharaji has, whether intentionally or not, managed to collect the admiration of an excellent cross section of Kindergarten pupils.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 06:17:54 (EST)
Poster: ex-mug
Email:
To: Aesop
Subject: The Ass in the Lion's Skin (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Very good idea. The reason I received the four techniques was not to become a devotee of a man called Prempal Singh Rawat but to have an experience that was fulfilling and to become closer to God. The first night I received satsang I remember praying to God and thanking him for letting me know about this experience. After I received the meditation techniques I had a wonderful experience from meditation, the following day. For those who want to meditate, the meditation techniques do work. It is a pity that Maharaji has used people's personal experiences from meditation for his own ends. Even now, I cannot understand why he does this. There are many people who would benefit from this meditation and such a thing should not be kept a secret or made impossible for people to achieve. You may have read earlier how I showed a close friend of mine two of the techniques of meditation. I had a very powerful experience in doing so. It reminded me of the days when I used to get high giving satsang. We don't need to follow the dictates and dogma of a Hindu self styled god. We are free people. Free to say what we want and use our experience for the benefit of other people without them having to go through Maharaji's obstical course. Of all the people who go through the aspirant obstical course, how many actually have an experience from meditation afterwards?? Very few I would think. In the days when I received Knowledge you didn't have to wait. All I had to do was turn up at the Knowledge session. This waiting game of Maharaji's is clearly to condition people into becoming his devotees. Even now I cannot believe the audacity of Maharaji to want people to believe he is God when he knows perfectly well that he isn't. Councelling is very important for people who sincerely want to meditate. If there is a confusion then it needs to be resolved so that one can relax into meditation. Nothing but good can come from your ideas, Mr Ex. There was a man who made an offer to people to take them on a train ride from the remote outpost where they had found themselves through inhospitable terrain. Many took him up on the offer because they did not like this place they had come to. But there was a secret that was not understood by all who traveled - that the joy of the ride would be had in the journey, not in the destination. Many lost faith while waiting to get to a destination, and jumped off the train ending up in a dry and desolate desert. Those who stayed on the train to this day still enjoy the ride and have found their home within the journey itself. But for the ones who jumped there is hurt, and pain. Well, what did they expect? He did come to them on many occasions and implored them to stay on board but some chose not to and jumped. Why they blame him for their pain is very hard to understand, especially for those who look back at them from the windows of the train. After all, they chose to get on board, and they also chose to jump off. Moral: Take responsibility for your own actions and you'll never have to find someone else to blame for your pain but yourself. And THAT will greatly simplify your life. An Ass found a Lion's Skin, and dressed himself up in it. Then he went about frightening everyone he met, for they all took him to be a lion, men and beasts alike, and took to their heels when they saw him coming. Elated by the success of his trick, he loudly brayed in triumph. The Fox heard him, recognised him at once for the Ass he was, and said to him, 'Oho, my friend, it's you, is it? I, too, should have been afraid if I hadn't heard your voice.' Aesop (the real one) Well, I guess a few of us have become a little more fox-like in this world, and have heard the braying of the biggest Ass**** I know of, (GMJ) to be no longer intimidated by him. all the best ex-mug
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 09:32:09 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Aesop
Subject: Re: Another Cool Parable (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Very good idea. The reason I received the four techniques was not to become a devotee of a man called Prempal Singh Rawat but to have an experience that was fulfilling and to become closer to God. The first night I received satsang I remember praying to God and thanking him for letting me know about this experience. After I received the meditation techniques I had a wonderful experience from meditation, the following day. For those who want to meditate, the meditation techniques do work. It is a pity that Maharaji has used people's personal experiences from meditation for his own ends. Even now, I cannot understand why he does this. There are many people who would benefit from this meditation and such a thing should not be kept a secret or made impossible for people to achieve. You may have read earlier how I showed a close friend of mine two of the techniques of meditation. I had a very powerful experience in doing so. It reminded me of the days when I used to get high giving satsang. We don't need to follow the dictates and dogma of a Hindu self styled god. We are free people. Free to say what we want and use our experience for the benefit of other people without them having to go through Maharaji's obstical course. Of all the people who go through the aspirant obstical course, how many actually have an experience from meditation afterwards?? Very few I would think. In the days when I received Knowledge you didn't have to wait. All I had to do was turn up at the Knowledge session. This waiting game of Maharaji's is clearly to condition people into becoming his devotees. Even now I cannot believe the audacity of Maharaji to want people to believe he is God when he knows perfectly well that he isn't. Councelling is very important for people who sincerely want to meditate. If there is a confusion then it needs to be resolved so that one can relax into meditation. Nothing but good can come from your ideas, Mr Ex. There was a man who made an offer to people to take them on a train ride from the remote outpost where they had found themselves through inhospitable terrain. Many took him up on the offer because they did not like this place they had come to. But there was a secret that was not understood by all who traveled - that the joy of the ride would be had in the journey, not in the destination. Many lost faith while waiting to get to a destination, and jumped off the train ending up in a dry and desolate desert. Those who stayed on the train to this day still enjoy the ride and have found their home within the journey itself. But for the ones who jumped there is hurt, and pain. Well, what did they expect? He did come to them on many occasions and implored them to stay on board but some chose not to and jumped. Why they blame him for their pain is very hard to understand, especially for those who look back at them from the windows of the train. After all, they chose to get on board, and they also chose to jump off. Moral: Take responsibility for your own actions and you'll never have to find someone else to blame for your pain but yourself. And THAT will greatly simplify your life. and also give you the power to change it!
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 09:40:06 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Aesop's fables.
Subject: Re: Your moral of the story is insulting and shortsighted. (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
OK, fine, it is ultimately my responsibility. Moderation in everything is perhaps the best. But in all fairness to us don't you think that coming the way he did, Proclaiming to be the lord, very strongly acting out the part (in his words anyway,) And growling at us about the consequences of not understanding and accepting him. And getting our hopes way, way up that he is telling the truth and we are under the ultimate rulers guidance as he claims his creatures in this age of easy transportation and communication. For you to dismiss all that as nothing but our lack of taking responsibility for our own actions is VERY confused and small minded of you. Once in the darshan line a guy said 'stop that' to some security gaurd that pushed him too quick and maharji roared 'Those are my creatures too! If you are riding the train- who is conducting? There are always reasons or circumstances that lead us to our choices but they are ultimately our choices. Our life choices are always, at the bottom line, our own responsibility.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 09:50:47 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: David
Subject: Re: Your moral of the story is insulting and shortsighted. (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Terry Waite spend several long and agonising years locked up alone in a room in Beirut. He suffered terribly and his fellow captures said that they first realised that another hostage was in the adjoining room because they could hear a man moaning in pain. Following the logic of the parable above, since Terry Waite had voluntered to go to Beirut to negotiate with the terrorists, he only had himself to blame for his suffering since he was responsible for his actions. In the real world, we are not always in control of what happens to us and cannot take the blame ourselves for our suffering. Would Aesop consider that a woman who had been raped, only had herself to blame? That is a very valid point but I think there is a big difference in decisions we make for our life's direction like K or what school to go to or what major to comit to and the unpredictable violence that may happen to us. That reminds me of a book I read years ago called Coming Out of the Ice where a boy from Detroit, born to Russian imigrants goes to Russia to live when his father is part of a team opening the first Ford plant in that country. He excels in Russian society until one day, and he never finds out why, he is taken into custody and spends many years there after in prison camps and is the only survivor from his last station. His mind set from the beginning was that while everyone else said in effect why me he said of course me because I can survive this. We may not be able to prevent bad or random violence or curcumstances from entering our lives but what we do once we have the experience is once again our choice/responsiblity. Concider 2 people who both had dibilitating strokes and one gives up and becomes an alchoholic (I knew this person) and another who makes the adjustments necessary to continue a life of quality.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 10:22:10 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: Aesop
Subject: Re: Another Cool Parable (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Dear parrot-of-the-guru Aesop: The story you tell was told to you by your guru to make you stay on the train. I remember he told a similar story to us about the guru's boat, and if you jumped off of it there were sharks waiting to eat you up. You say: 'Many lost faith while waiting to get to a destination, and jumped off the train ending up in a dry and desolate desert.' I jumped off the train because the ride had become a living hell. I jumped off the train, Aesop, and I am not in a dry and desolate desert. Oh, it was hard for a little while because I had surrendured by common sense and intelligence to the guru, and I had to work to get them back. But the dry desert disappeared pretty quickly really. In fact, what I learned was that the dry desert was an illusion, that in fact I was actually in a vibrant, interesting, challenging, place, called my individual life in a human body. Jump off the train Aesop, God will still be with you. There's no desert out there. It will take a while to get your bearings, but it will be worth it, then the real you can talk to us, and you won't just be parroting ridiculous threatening stories of damnation from your guru. All of the best to you.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 13:56:12 (EST)
Poster: Are you sure
Email:
To: ex-mug
Subject: this is a fable? (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Very good idea. The reason I received the four techniques was not to become a devotee of a man called Prempal Singh Rawat but to have an experience that was fulfilling and to become closer to God. The first night I received satsang I remember praying to God and thanking him for letting me know about this experience. After I received the meditation techniques I had a wonderful experience from meditation, the following day. For those who want to meditate, the meditation techniques do work. It is a pity that Maharaji has used people's personal experiences from meditation for his own ends. Even now, I cannot understand why he does this. There are many people who would benefit from this meditation and such a thing should not be kept a secret or made impossible for people to achieve. You may have read earlier how I showed a close friend of mine two of the techniques of meditation. I had a very powerful experience in doing so. It reminded me of the days when I used to get high giving satsang. We don't need to follow the dictates and dogma of a Hindu self styled god. We are free people. Free to say what we want and use our experience for the benefit of other people without them having to go through Maharaji's obstical course. Of all the people who go through the aspirant obstical course, how many actually have an experience from meditation afterwards?? Very few I would think. In the days when I received Knowledge you didn't have to wait. All I had to do was turn up at the Knowledge session. This waiting game of Maharaji's is clearly to condition people into becoming his devotees. Even now I cannot believe the audacity of Maharaji to want people to believe he is God when he knows perfectly well that he isn't. Councelling is very important for people who sincerely want to meditate. If there is a confusion then it needs to be resolved so that one can relax into meditation. Nothing but good can come from your ideas, Mr Ex. There was a man who made an offer to people to take them on a train ride from the remote outpost where they had found themselves through inhospitable terrain. Many took him up on the offer because they did not like this place they had come to. But there was a secret that was not understood by all who traveled - that the joy of the ride would be had in the journey, not in the destination. Many lost faith while waiting to get to a destination, and jumped off the train ending up in a dry and desolate desert. Those who stayed on the train to this day still enjoy the ride and have found their home within the journey itself. But for the ones who jumped there is hurt, and pain. Well, what did they expect? He did come to them on many occasions and implored them to stay on board but some chose not to and jumped. Why they blame him for their pain is very hard to understand, especially for those who look back at them from the windows of the train. After all, they chose to get on board, and they also chose to jump off. Moral: Take responsibility for your own actions and you'll never have to find someone else to blame for your pain but yourself. And THAT will greatly simplify your life. An Ass found a Lion's Skin, and dressed himself up in it. Then he went about frightening everyone he met, for they all took him to be a lion, men and beasts alike, and took to their heels when they saw him coming. Elated by the success of his trick, he loudly brayed in triumph. The Fox heard him, recognised him at once for the Ass he was, and said to him, 'Oho, my friend, it's you, is it? I, too, should have been afraid if I hadn't heard your voice.' Aesop (the real one) Well, I guess a few of us have become a little more fox-like in this world, and have heard the braying of the biggest Ass**** I know of, (GMJ) to be no longer intimidated by him. all the best ex-mug Finally a parable with some truth behind it! Thanks for the belly laugh today, ex-mug. VP
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 14:31:52 (EST)
Poster: Anon.
Email:
To: David
Subject: Re: Your moral of the story is insulting and shortsighted. (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Terry Waite spend several long and agonising years locked up alone in a room in Beirut. He suffered terribly and his fellow captures said that they first realised that another hostage was in the adjoining room because they could hear a man moaning in pain. Following the logic of the parable above, since Terry Waite had voluntered to go to Beirut to negotiate with the terrorists, he only had himself to blame for his suffering since he was responsible for his actions. In the real world, we are not always in control of what happens to us and cannot take the blame ourselves for our suffering. Would Aesop consider that a woman who had been raped, only had herself to blame? Exactly.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 14:55:27 (EST)
Poster: Student
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: Another Cool Parable (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
There was a man who made an offer to people to take them on a train ride from the remote outpost where they had found themselves through inhospitable terrain. Many took him up on the offer because they did not like this place they had come to. But there was a secret that was not understood by all who traveled - that the joy of the ride would be had in the journey, not in the destination. Many lost faith while waiting to get to a destination, and jumped off the train ending up in a dry and desolate desert. Those who stayed on the train to this day still enjoy the ride and have found their home within the journey itself. But for the ones who jumped there is hurt, and pain. Well, what did they expect? He did come to them on many occasions and implored them to stay on board but some chose not to and jumped. Why they blame him for their pain is very hard to understand, especially for those who look back at them from the windows of the train. After all, they chose to get on board, and they also chose to jump off. Moral: Take responsibility for your own actions and you'll never have to find someone else to blame for your pain but yourself. And THAT will greatly simplify your life. Just one question Aesop, regarding: But there was a secret that was not understood by all who traveled - that the joy of the ride would be had in the journey, not in the destination. Why was that information made secret? Incidently the pain that ex-premies express is NOT pain from jumping off the train (which is what you imply). Quite the contrary. The pain they bemoan is the pain that was inflicted upon them during this infernal train ride that you assume is so wonderful . Your parable confirms (as suggested by another post recently) that Maharaji has, whether intentionally or not, managed to collect the admiration of an excellent cross section of Kindergarten pupils. All I Really Need to Know, I Learned in Kindergarten
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 15:53:48 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Student
Subject: Re: Another Cool Parable (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
There was a man who made an offer to people to take them on a train ride from the remote outpost where they had found themselves through inhospitable terrain. Many took him up on the offer because they did not like this place they had come to. But there was a secret that was not understood by all who traveled - that the joy of the ride would be had in the journey, not in the destination. Many lost faith while waiting to get to a destination, and jumped off the train ending up in a dry and desolate desert. Those who stayed on the train to this day still enjoy the ride and have found their home within the journey itself. But for the ones who jumped there is hurt, and pain. Well, what did they expect? He did come to them on many occasions and implored them to stay on board but some chose not to and jumped. Why they blame him for their pain is very hard to understand, especially for those who look back at them from the windows of the train. After all, they chose to get on board, and they also chose to jump off. Moral: Take responsibility for your own actions and you'll never have to find someone else to blame for your pain but yourself. And THAT will greatly simplify your life. Just one question Aesop, regarding: But there was a secret that was not understood by all who traveled - that the joy of the ride would be had in the journey, not in the destination. Why was that information made secret? Incidently the pain that ex-premies express is NOT pain from jumping off the train (which is what you imply). Quite the contrary. The pain they bemoan is the pain that was inflicted upon them during this infernal train ride that you assume is so wonderful . Your parable confirms (as suggested by another post recently) that Maharaji has, whether intentionally or not, managed to collect the admiration of an excellent cross section of Kindergarten pupils. All I Really Need to Know, I Learned in Kindergarten Student---Your statment scares me!
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 16:28:02 (EST)
Poster: Aesop
Email:
To: David
Subject: Re: Another Cool Parable (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Why did you tag your 'parable' onto the end of my post? It clearly had nothing to do with my post. I was talking about making a good experience abailable to anyone who has an interest. You are making up parables based on your concept of what you think we are about and yet you are not even reading our posts. You are not communicating but are, in fact, talking to yourself. Can't remember why I picked on you. Something you said triggered a thought...
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 16:33:28 (EST)
Poster: Aesop
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: Another Cool Parable (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
There was a man who made an offer to people to take them on a train ride from the remote outpost where they had found themselves through inhospitable terrain. Many took him up on the offer because they did not like this place they had come to. But there was a secret that was not understood by all who traveled - that the joy of the ride would be had in the journey, not in the destination. Many lost faith while waiting to get to a destination, and jumped off the train ending up in a dry and desolate desert. Those who stayed on the train to this day still enjoy the ride and have found their home within the journey itself. But for the ones who jumped there is hurt, and pain. Well, what did they expect? He did come to them on many occasions and implored them to stay on board but some chose not to and jumped. Why they blame him for their pain is very hard to understand, especially for those who look back at them from the windows of the train. After all, they chose to get on board, and they also chose to jump off. Moral: Take responsibility for your own actions and you'll never have to find someone else to blame for your pain but yourself. And THAT will greatly simplify your life. Just one question Aesop, regarding: But there was a secret that was not understood by all who traveled - that the joy of the ride would be had in the journey, not in the destination. Why was that information made secret? Incidently the pain that ex-premies express is NOT pain from jumping off the train (which is what you imply). Quite the contrary. The pain they bemoan is the pain that was inflicted upon them during this infernal train ride that you assume is so wonderful . Your parable confirms (as suggested by another post recently) that Maharaji has, whether intentionally or not, managed to collect the admiration of an excellent cross section of Kindergarten pupils. The secret was always visible to those who could see it. If it was so friggin' painful being on the train why did you stay? Nobody was twisting your arm. Therein lies the concept of internal locus of control, versus external. In other words, 'Who's in charge of your life, you or someone else?'
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 16:55:32 (EST)
Poster: Student
Email:
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: Another Cool Parable (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten: Uncommon Thoughts on Common Things, by Robert Fulghum 'What we learned in kindergarten will come up again and again in our lives as long as we live. In far more complex, polysyllabic forms, to be sure--lectures, encyclopedias, bibles, company rules, courts of law, sermons, and handbooks. We will be tested and examined over the years to see if we understand what we have learned. 'Across the course of our lives we will wrestle with questions of right and wrong, good and bad, truth and lies. Again and again, we will come around to the place where we came in--to that room where the elemental notions about the human enterprise were handed to us with great care when were very young--in kindergarten.' foreward
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 17:30:19 (EST)
Poster: Aesop
Email:
To: Are you sure
Subject: Re: this is a fable? (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Very good idea. The reason I received the four techniques was not to become a devotee of a man called Prempal Singh Rawat but to have an experience that was fulfilling and to become closer to God. The first night I received satsang I remember praying to God and thanking him for letting me know about this experience. After I received the meditation techniques I had a wonderful experience from meditation, the following day. For those who want to meditate, the meditation techniques do work. It is a pity that Maharaji has used people's personal experiences from meditation for his own ends. Even now, I cannot understand why he does this. There are many people who would benefit from this meditation and such a thing should not be kept a secret or made impossible for people to achieve. You may have read earlier how I showed a close friend of mine two of the techniques of meditation. I had a very powerful experience in doing so. It reminded me of the days when I used to get high giving satsang. We don't need to follow the dictates and dogma of a Hindu self styled god. We are free people. Free to say what we want and use our experience for the benefit of other people without them having to go through Maharaji's obstical course. Of all the people who go through the aspirant obstical course, how many actually have an experience from meditation afterwards?? Very few I would think. In the days when I received Knowledge you didn't have to wait. All I had to do was turn up at the Knowledge session. This waiting game of Maharaji's is clearly to condition people into becoming his devotees. Even now I cannot believe the audacity of Maharaji to want people to believe he is God when he knows perfectly well that he isn't. Councelling is very important for people who sincerely want to meditate. If there is a confusion then it needs to be resolved so that one can relax into meditation. Nothing but good can come from your ideas, Mr Ex. There was a man who made an offer to people to take them on a train ride from the remote outpost where they had found themselves through inhospitable terrain. Many took him up on the offer because they did not like this place they had come to. But there was a secret that was not understood by all who traveled - that the joy of the ride would be had in the journey, not in the destination. Many lost faith while waiting to get to a destination, and jumped off the train ending up in a dry and desolate desert. Those who stayed on the train to this day still enjoy the ride and have found their home within the journey itself. But for the ones who jumped there is hurt, and pain. Well, what did they expect? He did come to them on many occasions and implored them to stay on board but some chose not to and jumped. Why they blame him for their pain is very hard to understand, especially for those who look back at them from the windows of the train. After all, they chose to get on board, and they also chose to jump off. Moral: Take responsibility for your own actions and you'll never have to find someone else to blame for your pain but yourself. And THAT will greatly simplify your life. An Ass found a Lion's Skin, and dressed himself up in it. Then he went about frightening everyone he met, for they all took him to be a lion, men and beasts alike, and took to their heels when they saw him coming. Elated by the success of his trick, he loudly brayed in triumph. The Fox heard him, recognised him at once for the Ass he was, and said to him, 'Oho, my friend, it's you, is it? I, too, should have been afraid if I hadn't heard your voice.' Aesop (the real one) Well, I guess a few of us have become a little more fox-like in this world, and have heard the braying of the biggest Ass**** I know of, (GMJ) to be no longer intimidated by him. all the best ex-mug Finally a parable with some truth behind it! Thanks for the belly laugh today, ex-mug. VP Finally someone who belly laughs at inane fables. Thanks for the stupid comment VP.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 19:00:24 (EST)
Poster: Stupid comments:
Email:
To: Aesop
Subject: There are more where that came from (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
You're welcome. I thought it fit in nicely with all of the stupid ones you've made here on this thread. Now that I have sunk to your level I think I'll join JW for some interpretive dance...VP
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 20:35:25 (EST)
Poster: Aesop
Email:
To: Stupid comments:
Subject: Re: There are more where that came from (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
You're welcome. I thought it fit in nicely with all of the stupid ones you've made here on this thread. Now that I have sunk to your level I think I'll join JW for some interpretive dance...VP I disagree. My comments are thought provoking, intuitive, insightful, and creative. You on the other hand are only open to what you want to hear, and disregard the other side of the equation. You WANT to believe that Maharaji is a fraud so it can explain why you 'lost' your loved one. You do so without haver ever tried it. That unfortunately leads to the kind of stupid comments you made. Another thing, don't try to pretty up your presentation VP, were're all shloshing around at the same level. Difference is some admit it and some don't. I'll be interested in how you interpret that in your next dance routine.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 20:38:02 (EST)
Poster: More programmed zealots
Email: bill burke
To: Robyn
Subject: after the article arrives. (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
ALWAYS sounds like when whats his name says ONLY. I am out of the debate again with the trapped ones. The web site is there, the archives are there, eventually there will be better and more sharply presented excerpts and stories. The help is there for those who can be freed. Those that are staunchly programmed can take whatever time they want. I don't care. I have no use for thier satsang.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 20:41:22 (EST)
Poster: Good one ex-mug
Email: **
To: ex-mug
Subject: The Ass in the Lion's Skin (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Thank you for that. It is really appropriate.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 20:44:37 (EST)
Poster: Aesop
Email:
To: More programmed zealots
Subject: Re: after the article arrives. (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
ALWAYS sounds like when whats his name says ONLY. I am out of the debate again with the trapped ones. The web site is there, the archives are there, eventually there will be better and more sharply presented excerpts and stories. The help is there for those who can be freed. Those that are staunchly programmed can take whatever time they want. I don't care. I have no use for thier satsang. Now there's a man with an open mind. And a clear thinker to boot.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 20:47:45 (EST)
Poster: Pin Head
Email:
To: Good one ex-mug
Subject: Re: The Ass in the Lion's Skin (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Thank you for that. It is really appropriate. Yeah ...raw, raw. Yo de man!
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 20:59:27 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: ex-mug
Subject: A fan letter to ex-mug (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Dear ex-mug - I have been reading your postings for a while and think that you are extremely funny and quite intelligent as well (that's supposed to be a compliment, by the way.) Keep on...I appreciate it, and I know most of the rest of us do too.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 21:04:20 (EST)
Poster: Aesop
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: A fan letter to ex-mug (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Dear ex-mug - I have been reading your postings for a while and think that you are extremely funny and quite intelligent as well (that's supposed to be a compliment, by the way.) Keep on...I appreciate it, and I know most of the rest of us do too. So Katie, what do you think of me? Go ahead be honest.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 21:09:49 (EST)
Poster: Aesop
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: A fan letter to ex-mug (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Dear ex-mug - I have been reading your postings for a while and think that you are extremely funny and quite intelligent as well (that's supposed to be a compliment, by the way.) Keep on...I appreciate it, and I know most of the rest of us do too. Katie, I'm sorry but I've re-read ex-mug's post a couple of times based on your post and just don't see the humor and intellegence in it. You're not just saying that to be nurturing are you? Otherwise, there may be something wrong with me. Maybe I, I... don't have a sense of humor. Aagghhh!!!
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 21:13:57 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Aesop
Subject: Re: A fan letter to ex-mug (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Dear ex-mug - I have been reading your postings for a while and think that you are extremely funny and quite intelligent as well (that's supposed to be a compliment, by the way.) Keep on...I appreciate it, and I know most of the rest of us do too. So Katie, what do you think of me? Go ahead be honest. Post here for a couple of weeks and I'll let you know. If you're the same person as 'A Premie', who posted on here a while ago, then I probably don't like you very much. But if not, I haven't made up my mind yet. Also, I reserve the right to change my mind too (e.g. I used to dislike Mili and now I don't).
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 21:45:02 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Aesop
Subject: Re: A fan letter to ex-mug (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Katie, I'm sorry but I've re-read ex-mug's post a couple of times based on your post and just don't see the humor and intellegence in it. You're not just saying that to be nurturing are you? Otherwise, there may be something wrong with me. Maybe I, I... don't have a sense of humor. Aagghhh!!! Not sure if there is anything wrong with you because. I didn't re-read the post you are talking about before posting this. I'm not commenting on a spedific post, but I am talking about ex-mug's posts in general - over the last several weeks. I wasn't just 'being nurturing'... would you say that if I didn't use a woman's name? For example, if I was CD? Regards from Katie
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 22:19:41 (EST)
Poster: Closed minded to
Email:
To: Aesop
Subject: old dogma. (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
ALWAYS sounds like when whats his name says ONLY. I am out of the debate again with the trapped ones. The web site is there, the archives are there, eventually there will be better and more sharply presented excerpts and stories. The help is there for those who can be freed. Those that are staunchly programmed can take whatever time they want. I don't care. I have no use for thier satsang. Now there's a man with an open mind. And a clear thinker to boot. Well A, I have heard the dogma for thousands of hours and really you coming in and showing distain for me not 'getting' the gift is frankly absurd and incorrect. You show no apparent signs of having an interest in looking at the facts at this time and what is the point in me watching you try to propagate? You don't even try to propagate in your own way! You just parrot what you have heard. That is tiresome. I was there. Until 1997. maharji's own words finally did me in. This web site helped a great deal. You are somewhat recent. I go back to the millenium. I know the whole devotee rap by heart. Without having to parrot. You want to believe maharji is lord, well, why in the world do you think we want to hear all that again? Because we are wrong and he IS the lord after all? Look, he deserves what is coming his way. There is no good purpose in making more clones like yourself. rawat lied BIG time and god is not pleased. And niether is the IRS.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 22:20:06 (EST)
Poster: Closed minded to
Email: **
To: Aesop
Subject: old dogma. (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
ALWAYS sounds like when whats his name says ONLY. I am out of the debate again with the trapped ones. The web site is there, the archives are there, eventually there will be better and more sharply presented excerpts and stories. The help is there for those who can be freed. Those that are staunchly programmed can take whatever time they want. I don't care. I have no use for thier satsang. Now there's a man with an open mind. And a clear thinker to boot. Well A, I have heard the dogma for thousands of hours and really you coming in and showing distain for me not 'getting' the gift is frankly absurd and incorrect. You show no apparent signs of having an interest in looking at the facts at this time and what is the point in me watching you try to propagate? You don't even try to propagate in your own way! You just parrot what you have heard. That is tiresome. I was there. Until 1997. maharji's own words finally did me in. This web site helped a great deal. You are somewhat recent. I go back to the millenium. I know the whole devotee rap by heart. Without having to parrot. You want to believe maharji is lord, well, why in the world do you think we want to hear all that again? Because we are wrong and he IS the lord after all? Look, he deserves what is coming his way. There is no good purpose in making more clones like yourself. rawat lied BIG time and god is not pleased.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 22:23:09 (EST)
Poster: Closed minded to
Email: **
To: Aesop
Subject: old dogma. (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
ALWAYS sounds like when whats his name says ONLY. I am out of the debate again with the trapped ones. The web site is there, the archives are there, eventually there will be better and more sharply presented excerpts and stories. The help is there for those who can be freed. Those that are staunchly programmed can take whatever time they want. I don't care. I have no use for thier satsang. Now there's a man with an open mind. And a clear thinker to boot. Well A, I have heard the dogma for thousands of hours and really you coming in and showing distain for me not 'getting' the gift is frankly absurd and incorrect. You show no apparent signs of having an interest in looking at the facts at this time and what is the point in me watching you try to propagate? You don't even try to propagate in your own way! You just parrot what you have heard. That is tiresome. I was there. Until 1997. maharji's own words finally did me in. This web site helped a great deal. You are somewhat recent. I go back to the millenium. I know the whole devotee rap by heart. Without having to parrot. You want to believe maharji is lord, well, why in the world do you think we want to hear all that again? Because we are wrong and he IS the lord after all? Look, he deserves what is coming his way. There is no good purpose in making more clones like yourself. rawat lied BIG time and god is not pleased.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 22:23:47 (EST)
Poster: Closed minded to
Email: **
To: Aesop
Subject: old dogma. (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
ALWAYS sounds like when whats his name says ONLY. I am out of the debate again with the trapped ones. The web site is there, the archives are there, eventually there will be better and more sharply presented excerpts and stories. The help is there for those who can be freed. Those that are staunchly programmed can take whatever time they want. I don't care. I have no use for thier satsang. Now there's a man with an open mind. And a clear thinker to boot. Well A, I have heard the dogma for thousands of hours and really you coming in and showing distain for me not 'getting' the gift is frankly absurd and incorrect. You show no apparent signs of having an interest in looking at the facts at this time and what is the point in me watching you try to propagate? You don't even try to propagate in your own way! You just parrot what you have heard. That is tiresome. I was there. Until 1997. maharji's own words finally did me in. This web site helped a great deal. You are somewhat recent. I go back to the millenium. I know the whole devotee rap by heart. Without having to parrot. You want to believe maharji is lord, well, why in the world do you think we want to hear all that again? Because we are wrong and he IS the lord after all? Look, he deserves what is coming his way. There is no good purpose in making more clones like yourself. rawat lied BIG time and god is not pleased.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 23:28:40 (EST)
Poster: you know me so well...
Email:
To: Aesop
Subject: Ha! (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Aesop, I've been looking at the other side of the equation for 25 years and I have to agree with Bill Burke on this one, I'm bored with it. I don't think the types of comments that you have directed at me tonight would be categorized as 'thought provoking, intuitive, insightful or creative'. I would say uninformed, mean-spirited, and presumptuious would be more accurate. I believe that when a person takes their life they are fully responsible for making that decision themselves, so once again, you are making presumptions about what I think without even knowing anything about who I am. I don't blame M completely for the loss of my loved one. I do fault him for proclaiming to have the answers (as Katie told you above) when he didn't. The reason I believe him to be a fraud is because I read 'Who Is Guru Maharaji' in the 70's, attended Satsang with premie family members, and I believed that this was the Perfect Master and that he was going to explode the peace bomb. (If the peace bomb exploded, why are we on here arguing?) How about all of the hospitals that DLO was going to build around the world to provide free health care for the poor? Anyway, M promised things that he did not deliver. There was never any explanation. Only lila. The dance comment was a joke. I guess you have no sense of humor this evening...maybe if you find my comments so 'stupid' you shouldn't waste any more time reading them. Especially since I have limited credibility in your eyes anyway Ha!ha! VP
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Date: Fri, Mar 13, 1998 at 00:42:59 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji
Email: aoa
To: Are you sure
Subject: Re: this is a fable? (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
[---snip---] An Ass found a Lion's Skin, and dressed himself up in it. [---snip---] Finally a parable with some truth behind it! Thanks for the belly laugh today, ex-mug. VP You can always tell it's a fable because the animals talk and make sense anthropomorphically. Real animals would never think like that, even if they did learn to talk somehow. Cuz you know like a chicken -- what's she gonna do, peck at a Packard Bell keyboard? Is a fox gonna drive an Audi? I don't think so. Fox would catch the occasional chicken pecking at a keyboard and dispatch with her right quickly -- promoting her chicken-hearted soul to the next form of 10,000 all different of suffering. How the hell did an ass get a lion's skin on -- I have trouble putting on a wristwatch by myself. He must have had some help. Probably a SatAss helped by revealing the fore techniques for skin wearing. A Perfect Ass Master.
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Date: Fri, Mar 13, 1998 at 01:07:45 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji
Email: aoa
To: ----
Subject: Re: A fan letter to ex-mug (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
[--snip--] Maybe I, I... don't have a sense of humor. Aagghhh!!! (raises one Vulcan eyebrow)
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Date: Fri, Mar 13, 1998 at 05:35:38 (EST)
Poster: ex-mug
Email:
To: Aesop
Subject: Re: this is a fable? (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Very good idea. The reason I received the four techniques was not to become a devotee of a man called Prempal Singh Rawat but to have an experience that was fulfilling and to become closer to God. The first night I received satsang I remember praying to God and thanking him for letting me know about this experience. After I received the meditation techniques I had a wonderful experience from meditation, the following day. For those who want to meditate, the meditation techniques do work. It is a pity that Maharaji has used people's personal experiences from meditation for his own ends. Even now, I cannot understand why he does this. There are many people who would benefit from this meditation and such a thing should not be kept a secret or made impossible for people to achieve. You may have read earlier how I showed a close friend of mine two of the techniques of meditation. I had a very powerful experience in doing so. It reminded me of the days when I used to get high giving satsang. We don't need to follow the dictates and dogma of a Hindu self styled god. We are free people. Free to say what we want and use our experience for the benefit of other people without them having to go through Maharaji's obstical course. Of all the people who go through the aspirant obstical course, how many actually have an experience from meditation afterwards?? Very few I would think. In the days when I received Knowledge you didn't have to wait. All I had to do was turn up at the Knowledge session. This waiting game of Maharaji's is clearly to condition people into becoming his devotees. Even now I cannot believe the audacity of Maharaji to want people to believe he is God when he knows perfectly well that he isn't. Councelling is very important for people who sincerely want to meditate. If there is a confusion then it needs to be resolved so that one can relax into meditation. Nothing but good can come from your ideas, Mr Ex. There was a man who made an offer to people to take them on a train ride from the remote outpost where they had found themselves through inhospitable terrain. Many took him up on the offer because they did not like this place they had come to. But there was a secret that was not understood by all who traveled - that the joy of the ride would be had in the journey, not in the destination. Many lost faith while waiting to get to a destination, and jumped off the train ending up in a dry and desolate desert. Those who stayed on the train to this day still enjoy the ride and have found their home within the journey itself. But for the ones who jumped there is hurt, and pain. Well, what did they expect? He did come to them on many occasions and implored them to stay on board but some chose not to and jumped. Why they blame him for their pain is very hard to understand, especially for those who look back at them from the windows of the train. After all, they chose to get on board, and they also chose to jump off. Moral: Take responsibility for your own actions and you'll never have to find someone else to blame for your pain but yourself. And THAT will greatly simplify your life. An Ass found a Lion's Skin, and dressed himself up in it. Then he went about frightening everyone he met, for they all took him to be a lion, men and beasts alike, and took to their heels when they saw him coming. Elated by the success of his trick, he loudly brayed in triumph. The Fox heard him, recognised him at once for the Ass he was, and said to him, 'Oho, my friend, it's you, is it? I, too, should have been afraid if I hadn't heard your voice.' Aesop (the real one) Well, I guess a few of us have become a little more fox-like in this world, and have heard the braying of the biggest Ass**** I know of, (GMJ) to be no longer intimidated by him. all the best ex-mug Finally a parable with some truth behind it! Thanks for the belly laugh today, ex-mug. VP Finally someone who belly laughs at inane fables. Thanks for the stupid comment VP. Aesop (the imposter) are you saying that the real Aesop made an insipid empty-headed utterance when he wrote 'The Ass in the Lion's Skin'? ex-mug
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Date: Fri, Mar 13, 1998 at 05:41:54 (EST)
Poster: ex-mug
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: A fan letter to ex-mug (Re: Premie.org is alive!)
Message:
Dear ex-mug - I have been reading your postings for a while and think that you are extremely funny and quite intelligent as well (that's supposed to be a compliment, by the way.) Keep on...I appreciate it, and I know most of the rest of us do too. thanks Katie. I appreciate your postings too ex-mug
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 03:53:18 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: Everyone
Subject: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!
Message:
Yes, that's right. There are a lot of these funny shaved guys in saffron clothes here. They hold regular bhakti performances in public places - playing their harmoniums, cymbals and an occasional devotional trumpet on the city square, while the girls in saris do a two-step, three-step to 'Hari Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hari Rama, Rama Rama'. It's nice and colorful, and a lot of people always gather and watch them. Sometimes they pass out great sweets. They seem to have a glow and sense of one-pointed dedication about them. They are vegetarians, and they abhor and eschew drugs, gambling and licentiousness. I have to say that they remind me of premies in the early days. I got some of their literature for free, and it's basically orthodox Hinduism.
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 09:12:14 (EST)
Poster: David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Mili
Subject: Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!
Message:
The Hari Krishnas first were my first intro into Hindu stuff. They gave out fee meal passes and I'd go to their temple in London and get a free meal, satsang and lots of singing and chanting. I used to love it. The lyrics were a bit limited though - Hari Krishna, Hari Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hari Hari, Hari Rama Hari Rama, Rama Rama, Hari Hari and so on endlessly repeated. The temple was beautiful with ornate dieties looking down like heavenly dolls and lots of colour and vibrance.
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 09:53:06 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!
Message:
Yes, that's right. There are a lot of these funny shaved guys in saffron clothes here. They hold regular bhakti performances in public places - playing their harmoniums, cymbals and an occasional devotional trumpet on the city square, while the girls in saris do a two-step, three-step to 'Hari Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hari Rama, Rama Rama'. It's nice and colorful, and a lot of people always gather and watch them. Sometimes they pass out great sweets. They seem to have a glow and sense of one-pointed dedication about them. They are vegetarians, and they abhor and eschew drugs, gambling and licentiousness. I have to say that they remind me of premies in the early days. I got some of their literature for free, and it's basically orthodox Hinduism. Mili: When I was a starving premie the HKs vere alway good for a vegetarian meal. The sugar was a bit too much though. They usually only reminded me of some of the 'fringe' premies. -Scott -Scott
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 09:57:05 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: David
Subject: From BO to PO (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
The big problem I had with the hare krishna's, and remember this was in the early 70's, was their body odor. The ones I met smelled like they hadn't taken a bath in a week. Can you imagine how Siddhartha must have smelled after living in the forest for a few years? That reminds me, recently I heard a presentation on Buddhism. The presenter gave a brief bio of Siddhartha's life. He said that Siddhartha left his wife and young child to go out into the forest to seek truth. [And he said this like it was some great thing that Siddhartha did] No, he did not go into the forest to seek truth, he went into the forest to get away from the stresses of family life. So this guy Siddhartha is famous for being some kind of enlightened guy, and he abandoned his own family, could not even take responsibility for his own child? My God, please spare me from meeting any more of the 'enlightened'. Just like Jesus got the apostles to leave their families to follow him around the countryside. You never hear what happened to those familes who no longer had someone out in the sea catching fish for them to live on. Just like our infamous guru sent initiators into the communities to inspire people to move down to miami to work on his airplane with no regard for how their lives were disrupted. I remember one woman who left her 2 year old to move to miami. Yes, I know, it was their personal decision to leave their families etc. But still what kind of person would want and encourage people (through his personal messengers - the initiators) to destroy their own lives to follow him? I remember at DECA listening to one guy give satsang about how he had left his family in Chicago to come and work 16 hours a day. The way he told it, he had to choose between his guru and his family, and it was hardly even a decision. Of course, it was the glamour of working on a personal project for THE LORD, whereas back home it was just the daily grind of caring for one's family. How enlightened is caring for one's family? It's far more enlightened to be doing something directly for THE LORD, now isn't it? Right. The fact is, caring for one's family is hard work. The kind of hard work that people will do anything to escape from. Yes, it was that guy's own stupid decision to leave his family to become a slave of the guru. He was responsible for that. I agree, but...what about the guru? I believe the guru also has responsibility. well, I went from B.O. to getting PO'ed just remembering that miami scene.
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 09:57:53 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: David
Subject: 'Probably' Padha (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
This was the name coined by a friend for the elderly 'guru' of the HKs, who spent his life translating Hindu scriptures into English which were then lavishly appointed with cartoons of the holy exploits. -Scott
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 10:03:07 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!
Message:
Yes, that's right. There are a lot of these funny shaved guys in saffron clothes here. They hold regular bhakti performances in public places - playing their harmoniums, cymbals and an occasional devotional trumpet on the city square, while the girls in saris do a two-step, three-step to 'Hari Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hari Rama, Rama Rama'. It's nice and colorful, and a lot of people always gather and watch them. Sometimes they pass out great sweets. They seem to have a glow and sense of one-pointed dedication about them. They are vegetarians, and they abhor and eschew drugs, gambling and licentiousness. I have to say that they remind me of premies in the early days. I got some of their literature for free, and it's basically orthodox Hinduism. Mili: When I was a starving premie the HKs vere alway good for a vegetarian meal. The sugar was a bit too much though. They usually only reminded me of some of the 'fringe' premies. -Scott -Scott I was in NYC for a father's day parade back in '74 maybe and one of our group had been into HK prior to his recieving K and knew we could get a good meal and it was, very. The chanting didn't appeal to me as a steady diet but was very enjoyable for and evening.
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 10:11:03 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email: stalking@freewheeling.com
To: John K.
Subject: Re: From BO to PO (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
John: Regarding: So this guy Siddhartha is famous for being some kind of enlightened guy, and he abandoned his own family, could not even take responsibility for his own child? In all fairness the guy was a prince, so doubt his family was destitute without him. and regarding: You never hear what happened to those familes who no longer had someone out in the sea catching fish for them to live on. The 'sons of Zebedee' and probably other apostles apparently went back to their former occupations for the brief period between the crucifixion and the resurrection. One can see that they might have had a self interest in preserving their apostolic mission, but there are very good reasons to believe that they did not make the whole thing up. It would be interesting to discuss that in a separate thread if you like. -Scott
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 10:41:39 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: 'Probably' Padha (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
This was the name coined by a friend for the elderly 'guru' of the HKs, who spent his life translating Hindu scriptures into English which were then lavishly appointed with cartoons of the holy exploits. -Scott Yeah, I get it: Prabhupada = Probably Padha! ;)
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 12:37:51 (EST)
Poster: David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Mili
Subject: Re: 'Probably' Padha (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
The old guy who started the HK culy which is now called ISKON now, I believe, well his name was Swarmi Baktivedanta (or Swarming Bacteria as we called him). I wrote the book 'The Baghavad Gita - As it is'. In the late seventies I wondered into the temple to try and cadge a free meal and was surprised to see a premie girl who I'd known years before, all Krishnafied in robes and now a member of this cult. I persuaded her to leave the HK cult for a while and she told me about the HK life. It sounded awful. Up at 5am every day, cold showers and over an hour of group chanting before breakfast. Then on to the streets to dance and chant and sell magazines and so it went on and on, with the interminable chanting and repeating of the mantra all day. She said it was a very difficult life and she wanted to leave it. But those Krishna freaks were heavy guys and they had gotten a hold over her and after just two days of leaving the cult and becoming a premie again, she went back to the Krishna cult. Sad because she was confused and riddled with guilt and didn't really know WHAT to do.
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 12:49:47 (EST)
Poster: David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Mili
Subject: Re: 'Probably' Padha (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
No my ego is not that big. I didn't write the book, 'The Baghavad Gita as it is' of course. Swami Baktivedanta wrote it. ______________________
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 13:10:39 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: Scott T.
Subject: The Buddha Bash! (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
*Warning, the following post may be offensive to Buddhists and Christians. I humbly apologize, and I recommend you do not read it.* Scott: I reject all perfect masters, all super beings, all super heros, all religious founders like buddha and jesus. I think it's all a bunch of baloney. I say Tom Edison did a hell of a lot more for humanity than any so called spiritual teacher. And he did it by using his brain, his mind, his abilities to percieve, judge, and evaluate. So, I also reject your argument that it was okay for Sid to go off into the forest to seek truth and leave behind his young family because, they were rich anyway. I reject the whole thing. I reject the meaning that Sid's journey's has. His journey teaches us that: It is far more important and noble and brave and wonderful to leave your young mate and child and go off into the forest to suffer needlessly and entice other mindless followers to suffer needlessly so that everyone can 'realize the truth'. Baloney! Hogwash! It's all a bunch of absolute nonsense! So truth does not reside in the every day life of raising a family? God does not allow itself to be realized if one is taking care of a family? Spiritual masters are after individuals' time, energy, and lives. They are ruthless. They will suck you dry, as much as you want to give they will take. All else be damned. I don't think much has changed since buddha's day or since jesus's day. They were both doing the same thing, IMHO, as gmj does today. So sayeth the humble servant of the truth.
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 13:27:12 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: John K.
Subject: Re: The Buddha Bash! (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
John: I am skeptical, but don't reject the possibility of those teachings out of hand. There is a very logical tension between creativity (defined in pragmatic terms as involvement in Popper's 'world of ideas') and the kinds of personal and family obligations we experience. Durkheim even went so far as to say a certain level of criminal and non-criminal 'deviance' is to be tolerated and accepted for the sake of this creative element. Furthermore, you can't separate spiritual involvement from Edison's sort of creativity all that easily. Edison believed that he got most of his best ideas from miniature people living inside the cells of his body! Ralf Dahrendorf (in 'Life Chances') suggests that the role of these deviants is 'representational' by which he means that they represent opportunities to be made available to people unborn, who are not 'represented' in our society in any other way. Even a scientific enterprise that is unable to tolerate a certain level of deviance will eventually stagnate. I sometimes think that the physicists' insistence on the concept of an 'elementary particle' represents this sort of stagnation. -Scott
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 14:10:29 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji
Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com
To: John K.
Subject: Re: The Buddha Bash! (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
And John K Said: *Warning, the following post may be offensive to Buddhists and Christians. I humbly apologize, and I recommend you do not read it.* Scott: I reject all perfect masters, all super beings, all super heros, all religious founders like buddha and jesus. I think it's all a bunch of baloney. I say Tom Edison did a hell of a lot more for humanity than any so called spiritual teacher. And he did it by using his brain, his mind, his abilities to percieve, judge, and evaluate. So, I also reject your argument that it was okay for Sid to go off into the forest to seek truth and leave behind his young family because, they were rich anyway. I reject the whole thing. I reject the meaning that Sid's journey's has. His journey teaches us that: It is far more important and noble and brave and wonderful to leave your young mate and child and go off into the forest to suffer needlessly and entice other mindless followers to suffer needlessly so that everyone can 'realize the truth'. Baloney! Hogwash! It's all a bunch of absolute nonsense! So truth does not reside in the every day life of raising a family? God does not allow itself to be realized if one is taking care of a family? Spiritual masters are after individuals' time, energy, and lives. They are ruthless. They will suck you dry, as much as you want to give they will take. All else be damned. I don't think much has changed since buddha's day or since jesus's day. They were both doing the same thing, IMHO, as gmj does today. So sayeth the humble servant of the truth. John this is the second post from you today I really enjoyed. I don't think I have it in me to take a week off from being critical-minded towards anything that even slightly disagrees with me on the forum - but I've felt regret at not giving praise where praise was warranted. I felt close to Jesus -- sort of -- as a young Catholic boy. But that was disappeared before my 15th birthday (I was an atheist for most practical concerns by then). When I met Maharaji's initiates and aspirants, I was led into M's logic about living masters (had given that one precious little thought, except in the ordinary dojo/sensai type of scene, and the Kung Fu tv show). Maharaji purged me of any interest in dead masters, no matter their infamy. His story, as Raja Ji was supposed to have said. There's a very interesting branch of (what amounts to) history and the science of collecting and preserving historical accounts that says we focus way too much on individuals IN history (such as Edison) rather than on the larger cultures. It is true, you can't talk about a culture or a society as though it had a defined story the way you can try to, about an individual -- but individuals are always, always the exception to the rule around them. A society is perforce an averaging of all the exceptions into a commonality that can be discussed. Maybe. :) Good post, John.
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 14:36:18 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: David
Subject: Re: 'Probably' Padha (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
The old guy who started the HK culy which is now called ISKON now, I believe, well his name was Swarmi Baktivedanta (or Swarming Bacteria as we called him). I wrote the book 'The Baghavad Gita - As it is'. In the late seventies I wondered into the temple to try and cadge a free meal and was surprised to see a premie girl who I'd known years before, all Krishnafied in robes and now a member of this cult. I persuaded her to leave the HK cult for a while and she told me about the HK life. It sounded awful. Up at 5am every day, cold showers and over an hour of group chanting before breakfast. Then on to the streets to dance and chant and sell magazines and so it went on and on, with the interminable chanting and repeating of the mantra all day. She said it was a very difficult life and she wanted to leave it. But those Krishna freaks were heavy guys and they had gotten a hold over her and after just two days of leaving the cult and becoming a premie again, she went back to the Krishna cult. Sad because she was confused and riddled with guilt and didn't really know WHAT to do. I don't really know any of those guys, but the few encounters that I had with them were fairly typical of what you guys describe as 'cult' behavior. These people proselytize in the street, give you a big smile and a rap, but its pretty obvious that they do not care for you as a person, you are just a potential 'customer' to them. They treat you as fair game for their trip. I think I really blew the last guy I encountered away by quoting the Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita to him. He'd never even heard of that stuff. All he wanted to do was to hawk some books around. Of course, you have to understand that some of these people are ex-junkies, or what-have-you, and they are retaining their aggressive manners with them. Now they are simply pushing Krishna on people instead of dope. Same thing goes for Jesus freaks, and a lot of other groups, I suppose.
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 16:25:31 (EST)
Poster: JohnK
Email:
To: Scott T.
Subject: I think we agree! (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
Scott: Either I am not making myself clear or this is a lousy medium for communication. I said I reject the idea or belief in super humans that come to 'save' us, like buddha jesus gmj etc. I do not reject the existence of a superior force or power. I have had many many experiences of a superior power in my life. I have no doubt in its existence. You say 'Furthermore, you can't separate spiritual involvement from Edison's sort of creativity all that easily. Edison believed that he got most of his best ideas from miniature people living inside the cells of his body!' I agree completely, and I do not see why rejecting jesus and gmj means I don't believe in the link between creativity and spirituality! The reason I say edison did more for humanity than jesus is that edison did practical things. He created things which actually 'work' - that we all really appreciate and use. What did Jesus do other than get himself crucified? Jesus told people to do something which is impossible to do, 'love your neighbor as yourself'. A Great Thought, but what does it really mean? We are supposed to blindly love people no matter what they do, or say, no matter how they behave? How ridiculous! Jesus said 'if someone strikes you on the left cheek, turn your other cheek towards him so he can strike that!' Another Great Thought, but I claim it has no practical value. If that's how we are supposed to live, then why did Martin Luther King, who was a christian minister, demand fairness for african-americans? Why did he not simply meekly go to the back of the bus like he was supposed to do? Because humans are not meant to turn the other cheek. It's an absurd idea, and not practical in the real world. The most mind-blowing book I have ever read about the New Testament was a book about the Dead Sea scrolls. Sorry, I don't remember the name of it. It offered another perspective on Paul's activities in the New Testament which apparently the authors gleaned from some of the scrolls that have been translated. In a nutshell, their radical conclusion was that Paul was in fact the anti-christ! It's a fascinating book, and when I read it their argument made sense to me.
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 18:07:12 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: JohnK
Subject: Re: I think we agree! (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
John: I think the source of the disagreement concerns my belief that the contribution of Jesus was, in fact, quite practical... and related to the growth in the sanctity of the individual, which eventually led to the European Enlightenment and the emergence of the Scientific Method that you revere. This is not, to be sure, an explicit aspect of Christianity but it is certainly an implication of the more direct relationship between the individual and the divine. This change had been in the wind for some time, foreshadowed by the Epicureans and especially the Stoic concept of 'logos' that gives individuals an independent ground for judgments about morality, etc. This shift occurred in other parts of the world at around the same time, and is usually referred to as the 'Axis Era,' from about 500BC leading up to the Christian Era. It includes the birth of Buddhism. The fact that these individuals often left home and family is emblematic of their abandonment of the strictures of the traditionalistic societies from which they emerged. The last 'family man' to lead such a change was Moses in the Era of the Patriarchs. Boy... didn't realize I had all that stuff wired together!
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 20:39:36 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: John K.
Subject: Re: From BO to PO (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
'John wrote: Just like Jesus got the apostles to leave their families to follow him around the countryside. You never hear what happened to those familes who no longer had someone out in the sea catching fish for them to live on.' Now, now, John, Jesus DID heal Peter's Mother-in-law so that she could get up and cook a meal for Jesus and the boys, and although he was kinda rude to his mother and brothers when they came to get him because the neighbors were saying he was crazy, he really was into Family Values; just ask Jerry Farwell and Randall Terry!
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 21:15:47 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!
Message:
I was invited to one of their special dinners with stainless steel plates many years ago. The food was great.
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 22:38:08 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji
Email: aoa
To: JohnK
Subject: Re: I think we agree! (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
Jesus said 'if someone strikes you on the left cheek, turn your other cheek towards him so he can strike that!' Another Great Thought, but I claim it has no practical value. He's saying to bait a known assailant into striking you a second time. According to Roman law, you could then kill him with a free conscience -- one strike is following an impulse; howerver, two strikes are methodical assault. Just kidding.
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Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 23:49:12 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: John K.
Subject: Re: From BO to PO (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
Did anyone else find it interesting that the promise keepers left their families to go to Washington to demonstrate that they wouldn't leave their families? I just didn't get it. I never understood that about Siddhartha or the fishermen either, John K. Thanks for the honesty!
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 00:04:33 (EST)
Poster: The bus came by
Email: **
To: Mili
Subject: and I got on ... (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
Have you ever tried to tell these guys about maharaji? I have. At millenium I was an aspirant and one of them showed me the light technique. He pushed hard just like the mahatma did later. The krishna's and the christians were livid over the whole affair, but it was a dreamy event for me. Some years later I hopped on the krishna bus for a day to figure them out and see what would happen. I talked with this smart krishna zealot for a while and it was just me listen to him as he downloaded data (truth). He put on his wig and went out to make some money and some other krishna's came on the bus(temple) and there was a normally dressed guy that came on too. I talked with him and he had been traveling with them for a few days and I told him about maharaji and invited him to stay at my house and go to satsang. He did, he moved back to michigan, and wrote me a letter later telling me he recieved knowledge. That should make your day. For quite a while you could approach people and say that maharji was the lord and maharji would try to back that up big time at the programs. He WAS the lord. If you wanted lord, you got him. Life didn't support that one however although maharji certainly tried to pull that one off like no one else has. Life didn't grant him the all-essential experience to back that one up. So, instead of boldly accepting the apparent reality head on, he plays the hindu card. Sorry for veering off, once some premie at the residence said to maharji 'the krishna's are so devoted to you and they don't even know you and here I am with you and I am not so devoted.' maharji said 'Don't believe it, thier minds support what they do, thier mind has them right where it wants them, YOU, have to fight your mind. Your mind doesn't want you to practise knowledge.' Now I will admit I have forgotten the exact quote but that is very close. I used to be very demanding about quoteing him exactly and I was good at that. Your mind is the thing that is your enemy. That was certainly the thrust for a few years. I notice the soft air quite often in my day. The pressure to conform and walk that long confining road was so unnessary. hari krishna, I am working this week fixing a gold leaf alter in a nun monastary. The nun's are Dominicans. No doubt they pray to the virgin mary of croatia. The church over here does strongly believe in the croatia visions. I have read the full transcripts of the conversations between the children and the virgin mary in croatia. I read it at another nun monastary I worked at a couple years ago. Unfortunately she has nothing to say. Just do the rosary. And I also noticed she forgot her son's name was yeshua. She does talk about dark clouds coming but they are always there and anyone can do the doom and gloom rap. The nun's I deal with have some interesting names; sister Immaculate Conception. sister Sacred Heart. You know, they are nice to be with for short bursts but I see how when we get too involved with ANY religion or group we lose ourselves and our freedom. Why are we so vulnerable to bonding to ideas and beliefs and dogma's and virtually any group that tells us in an authoritarian way what to do?
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 02:10:35 (EST)
Poster: David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: The bus came by
Subject: Re: and I got on ... (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
Why don't you try asking her if she believes that Jesus got married to Mary Magdalene and fathered a child who later went to France with Mary after Jesus's death. Also does she really believe that there was such a thing as a virgin birth? Regarding Jesus's offspring - that is what the Knights templar were all about - protecting the descendents of Jesus who were living in France. A secret society was formed which still continues today. Some pretty famous people were members of this secret society. Sir Isaac Newton was a member and in more recent times, Victor Hugo was too. The Knights Templat and the secret society all existed to protect the blood line of Jesus.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 02:32:55 (EST)
Poster: Mili
Email: mili@cheerful.com
To: The bus came by
Subject: Re: Yeshua (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
Bill, What's with this 'Yeshua' thing? Sure, 'Yeshua' is the original Hebrew name. But it doesn't make 'Jesus' fundamentally wrong. Jesus is just the Latin pronunciation. Hey, remember that Dylan song: 'Man gave names to all the animals, in the beginning, a long time ago...'
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 09:12:22 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: The bus came by
Subject: Re: and I got on ... (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
I would like to take the statement you made toward the end of your posting and go one step further. : 'I see how when we get too involved with ANY religion or goup we lose ourselves and our freedom. Why are we so vulnerable to bonding to ideas and beliefs and dogma's and virtually any group that tells us in an authoritarian way what to do? ' I believe this statement goes beyond spiritual experiences into any (big generalization with many exceptions I'm sure) institution. Many years ago I worked at a home/'school' for retardad women in PA. The school was founded by Martha Lloyd who lived with the women in a large home and with the retarded residence kept up the house and grounds including an apple orchard. They worked together to do shopping and cooking. A wonderful concept but after years of existance and probably after Martha Lloyd had died or turned over operations things began to change and the place became less and less like home and more and more like an assembly line operation. When I started there when there was time I would play shutes and ladders or color with residents but then a rule came down that the residents could only practice age appropriate activities. Absurd. This is an isolated example but another is my present full time job. A small firm with grandious expectations and a feeling of excellence and free spiritedness when I started here and only 4 short years later, and due to many factors from bad management to mental illness, the whole thing turned sour and what remains is a shell of the original 'mission' into which comment, honesty, and change are not welcome. This is by no means a scientific study just my response to my life's experiences.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 11:15:22 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: And On Anand Ji
Subject: Love and Kisses to All! (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
Gee thanks Ji! Or can I call you And? Yeah, I am more in critical-react mode and not praise-react mode. I really love and enjoy a lot of the posts and posters on this forum and I don't respond to them and let them know.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 13:49:55 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email: stalking@freewheeling.com
To: David
Subject: Re: and I got on ... (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
Why don't you try asking her if she believes that Jesus got married to Mary Magdalene and fathered a child who later went to France with Mary after Jesus's death. Also does she really believe that there was such a thing as a virgin birth? Regarding Jesus's offspring - that is what the Knights templar were all about - protecting the descendents of Jesus who were living in France. A secret society was formed which still continues today. Some pretty famous people were members of this secret society. Sir Isaac Newton was a member and in more recent times, Victor Hugo was too. The Knights Templat and the secret society all existed to protect the blood line of Jesus. David: Are you sure about the offspring through Mary Mag thing? I mean, the biblical rendition of Jesus' genealogy goes back through Mary and David to Adam. I thought that was what 'the bloodline' was about... not on the father's side which would sort of fly in the face of the notion that he was divine in the first place, wouldn't it? And the Davidic bloodline supposedly links up to Charles, believe it or not. There's also this Liafial (Jacob's pillow) thing that is supposed to be the authority behind the English throne. Awfully mysterious. -Scott
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 21:03:04 (EST)
Poster: Will
Email: BB
To: Mili
Subject: The perogative of the Big Mama. (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
Hi Mili, all these christian folks I know keep saying 'the holy name of jesus' They talk to god and call him jesus but if his name was yeshua I don't see the need to change the name to a hundred different things if he ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of mr. amazing. The guy to his left, Mr. Amazing, surely refers to him by his name that his virgin mother gave him. All the cards and letters that are addressed to someone named jesus are difficult to deliver. Yeshua must roll his eyes and say 'what's the deal with changeing my name? Who thunk that up?' I say it doesn't matter to most folks because they don't really believe in it as a really true thing. Unless they just never heard he was actually called something else by his (soon to be elevated by the pope), mom She is going to be proclaimed as a co-mediatrix of god with jesus(yeshua). Moving up the heavenly ranks! If SHE, the big SHE, the co-mediatrix, decided to name her virgin born son of god YESHUA, well, I am not going to argue!
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Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 21:24:59 (EST)
Poster: thats when it
Email: bb
To: Robyn
Subject: all began. (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
You reminded me of that song-everyone want's to rule the world. Maybe that is one of those features that come in the pandora box that is issued to all humans standard with the body. The nun's I am temporarily working with have this to say. How about I move this thread up top?
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Date: Fri, Mar 13, 1998 at 01:30:54 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji
Email: aoa
To: ----
Subject: Re: Love and Kisses to All! (Re: There are Hare Krishnas in Zagreb, too!)
Message:
Gee thanks Ji! Or can I call you And? Yeah, I am more in critical-react mode and not praise-react mode. I really love and enjoy a lot of the posts and posters on this forum and I don't respond to them and let them know. I like dealing with people in person for that reason -- I give a lot of signals without saying a word --- a percentage of those get through. Sometimes I like to go home and look in the mirror and see what they must've seen -- I'm careful not to disturb the way I was wearing my hair or whatever I had on. I see the same thing every time -- mirth in the eyes. That's the common element in all those incidences. When mirth loses it's freshness, it becomes smug.
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