Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum II Archive # 9 | |
From: Mar 7, 1998 |
To: Mar 14, 1998 |
Page: 4 Of: 5 |
Date: Tues, Mar 10, 1998 at 23:09:48 (EST)
Poster: John Cavad Email: To: Everyone Subject: AMWAY (The Real Cult) Message: Some of you may be aware that Amway is considered a cult by many authorities in the field. I can concur that this is true first hand. Any of you ever involved in Amway? First you go to a public meeting by invitation. You are not told what the meeting is about except that it's a great opportunity. Then you're greeted by blissful cult members trying hard to make you feel understood and comfortable. You're told of all the money you can make if you join now. By the end of the night you're told it's all about selling soap for astronomical prices. If you join, you are so sucked in...I can't go on, it's making me sick thinking about it. Have any of you sold soap after Satsang to fellow premies? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 00:32:20 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: John Cavad Subject: Not the Only CultAMWAY (The Real Cult) (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: Have any of you sold soap after Satsang to fellow premies? I didn't sell soap, but I sold: 1. Flowers on the street (just like the Moonies) at Mothers Day and Easter; 2. These very ugly pots from Mexico that hung on these macrame hangers for $10 each; 3. Honey oat bars, which were these heavy, gross candy bars made by premies; 4. Subscriptions to And It Is Divine (I sold a couple of year subscriptions, unfortuntately, the magazine stopped publishing shortly after that); 5. Chocolate chip cookies after satsang; 6. Furniture jumbled from peoples' garbage: 7. Rummage collected from premies; I sold all of the above, except the AIID subscriptions, to help pay for Maharaji's 'world tour' which turned out to be one of his bigger lies, because the money actually went to acquiring and refurbishing a Boeing 707 aircraft for his personal use, worked on day and night by hundreds of premies. Apparently, M got tired of it before it was even finished, and sold it to another cult leader shortly thereafter. Such is how much he gave a shit about the money we raised, or the work the premies did. Typical. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 00:50:57 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: John Cavad Subject: Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult) Message: Amway's a pyramid scheme (Ponzi scheme). Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 06:32:08 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: John Cavad Subject: Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult) Message: Have any of you sold soap after Satsang to fellow premies? Your post is too funny!! I was into it for a while after being invited to see a business by a premie, who was sponsored by another premie. The room was packed with em, and the guy who was drawing circles thought he hit it big. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 10:14:43 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: John Cavad Subject: Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult) Message: Some of you may be aware that Amway is considered a cult by many authorities in the field. I can concur that this is true first hand. Any of you ever involved in Amway? First you go to a public meeting by invitation. You are not told what the meeting is about except that it's a great opportunity. Then you're greeted by blissful cult members trying hard to make you feel understood and comfortable. You're told of all the money you can make if you join now. By the end of the night you're told it's all about selling soap for astronomical prices. If you join, you are so sucked in...I can't go on, it's making me sick thinking about it. Have any of you sold soap after Satsang to fellow premies? I was just reading an article written by a hemophiliac about his youth and his brother who had kidney disease and how they spent time together as brothers, not playing ruff but more disscussions etc. Then the brother became engulfed in Christianity and this fired up their parent's religious fever and they all got into Amway! I also have a close friend who is also an ex-premi who got into Amway a few years back. I remember his demeanor during that time reminded me of religious fevor and it just seemed to odd to me to attach that type of emotion to soap! I even began to avoid conversations with him but at that time I never thought of the Amway organization as a cult but it is funny that I just read that article, saw this in the forum and had that experience with my friend. Can't Mary Kay be like that to? I guess we all need something to get fired up about but like the manic phase in a manic/dreprssive illustrates the less thrilling middle of the road, all things in moderation is the more healthy approach to life. I prefer to get out that manic energy by dancing. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 10:24:39 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: JW Subject: Re: Not the Only CultAMWAY (The Real Cult) (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: Have any of you sold soap after Satsang to fellow premies? I didn't sell soap, but I sold: 1. Flowers on the street (just like the Moonies) at Mothers Day and Easter; 2. These very ugly pots from Mexico that hung on these macrame hangers for $10 each; 3. Honey oat bars, which were these heavy, gross candy bars made by premies; 4. Subscriptions to And It Is Divine (I sold a couple of year subscriptions, unfortuntately, the magazine stopped publishing shortly after that); 5. Chocolate chip cookies after satsang; 6. Furniture jumbled from peoples' garbage: 7. Rummage collected from premies; I sold all of the above, except the AIID subscriptions, to help pay for Maharaji's 'world tour' which turned out to be one of his bigger lies, because the money actually went to acquiring and refurbishing a Boeing 707 aircraft for his personal use, worked on day and night by hundreds of premies. Apparently, M got tired of it before it was even finished, and sold it to another cult leader shortly thereafter. Such is how much he gave a shit about the money we raised, or the work the premies did. Typical. My I am on a roll today, this is the 3rd response but I am struck by the lack of realization many ex-premie's had about the way M used money raise by the love and hard work of premies. I have, from a young age seen the duality in organized religion as my mother was very 'religious' and involved in the Catholic Chruch and beat all of her children with a leather dog leash! I always saw that double standard even within the Catholic Church and the extrem riches at the vatican. As I said in my Journey entry I never got into the cult mentality with M. I just took the experience of the meditation and benifited from that. I guess I never realized how hard it was for many of you until 20 years later when I found this site. I am gald for myself and so sorry that he hurt so many as he apparently is still doing. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 11:48:12 (EST)
Poster: John Cavad Email: To: Robyn Subject: Re: AMWAY (The Dangerous Cult) (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: You know, as funny as this appears, it is true: Amway is a cult. They sell tapes of (Southern Baptist-type) inspirational speakers telling you how you can excel by surrendering to Amway; they have nightly Soapsang in every city; they propogate their suddsy word intensly; they have programs and festivals; there's also a pyramid structure and hierarchy in the organization not unlike EV; there's a whole set of ideologies and belief systems that are intrinsically authoritarian just like those of the Nazis and GMJ. No different. Funny? Besides being a member for a short time, I was very close to some of these cult members for many years. They were brainwashed - no question! And it was not healthy for anyone (except those at the very, very top of the hierarchy). They were programed to become rich via direct sales of a redundant product. When they left the cult (if they were lucky) they appeared more than spiritually & corporately raped. They were broke! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 12:08:20 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: John Cavad Subject: Re: AMWAY (The Dangerous Cult) (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: You know, as funny as this appears, it is true: Amway is a cult. They sell tapes of (Southern Baptist-type) inspirational speakers telling you how you can excel by surrendering to Amway; they have nightly Soapsang in every city; they propogate their suddsy word intensly; they have programs and festivals; there's also a pyramid structure and hierarchy in the organization not unlike EV; there's a whole set of ideologies and belief systems that are intrinsically authoritarian just like those of the Nazis and GMJ. No different. Funny? Besides being a member for a short time, I was very close to some of these cult members for many years. They were brainwashed - no question! And it was not healthy for anyone (except those at the very, very top of the hierarchy). They were programed to become rich via direct sales of a redundant product. When they left the cult (if they were lucky) they appeared more than spiritually & corporately raped. They were broke! I am using this to respond to a message from a few days back...TM(the other cult). When I posted it it didn't show up. This is my first day posting and I'm thinking maybe you can't post to messages once they get to old. Anyway it was worth posting, I think and it involved a response from Paul to your inital message. Paul, You hit on the explination of how my experience with K is similar to John's with TM. Finding this site has envoked thoughts about things long forgoten for me and I think that is good. I took from K what was positive and didn't get caught up in the rest, not consciencely that is just how it happened and that seems to me what John's experience is with TM. Which makes me think again of a realization I had long before I ever heard of M and in relation to my Catholic upbringing. The root of religion is spirituality and religion is mans way of 'gaining control' of that spirituality. The good that is the 'seed' of K, Christianity, TM etc. is twisted by people who want to have it 'there way'. There are countless ways to do anything why should a spiritual connection be any different. It just seems so logical and basic to me. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 12:58:49 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: John Cavad Subject: Re: AMWAY (The Dangerous Cult) (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: You know, as funny as this appears, it is true: Amway is a cult. They sell tapes of (Southern Baptist-type) inspirational speakers telling you how you can excel by surrendering to Amway; they have nightly Soapsang in every city; they propogate their suddsy word intensly; they have programs and festivals; there's also a pyramid structure and hierarchy in the organization not unlike EV; there's a whole set of ideologies and belief systems that are intrinsically authoritarian just like those of the Nazis and GMJ. No different. Funny? Besides being a member for a short time, I was very close to some of these cult members for many years. They were brainwashed - no question! And it was not healthy for anyone (except those at the very, very top of the hierarchy). They were programed to become rich via direct sales of a redundant product. When they left the cult (if they were lucky) they appeared more than spiritually & corporately raped. They were broke! I understand that Amway is also moving into the political realm, supporting causes akin to the Christian Coalition, and other wacko right-wing causes, like prayer in the public schools, school vouchers, the elimination of welfare, the elimination of affirmative action, and are anti-gay rights. Anyhow, they seem to be especially powerful in the state of Michigan. Is that where Amway is headquartered? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 13:19:14 (EST)
Poster: John Cavad Email: To: JW Subject: Re: AMWAY (The Dangerous Cult) (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: Amway is headquartered in Grand Rapids, MI. I've been to there beautiful downtown building (aka castle)a few times during my buusiness travels. Once again, Amway is indeed a cult that is ostensibly secular and considered a legitamate business contributing to the USA economy. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 14:27:01 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: John Cavad Subject: Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult) Message: Some of you may be aware that Amway is considered a cult by many authorities in the field. I can concur that this is true first hand. Any of you ever involved in Amway? First you go to a public meeting by invitation. You are not told what the meeting is about except that it's a great opportunity. Then you're greeted by blissful cult members trying hard to make you feel understood and comfortable. You're told of all the money you can make if you join now. By the end of the night you're told it's all about selling soap for astronomical prices. If you join, you are so sucked in...I can't go on, it's making me sick thinking about it. Have any of you sold soap after Satsang to fellow premies? It appears that the AMYWAY crowd are taking the 'Cleanliness is Next to Godliness' thang to undreamed of extremes! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 20:50:46 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: Robyn Subject: Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult) Message: Some of you may be aware that Amway is considered a cult by many authorities in the field. I can concur that this is true first hand. Any of you ever involved in Amway? First you go to a public meeting by invitation. You are not told what the meeting is about except that it's a great opportunity. Then you're greeted by blissful cult members trying hard to make you feel understood and comfortable. You're told of all the money you can make if you join now. By the end of the night you're told it's all about selling soap for astronomical prices. If you join, you are so sucked in...I can't go on, it's making me sick thinking about it. Have any of you sold soap after Satsang to fellow premies? I was just reading an article written by a hemophiliac about his youth and his brother who had kidney disease and how they spent time together as brothers, not playing ruff but more disscussions etc. Then the brother became engulfed in Christianity and this fired up their parent's religious fever and they all got into Amway! I also have a close friend who is also an ex-premi who got into Amway a few years back. I remember his demeanor during that time reminded me of religious fevor and it just seemed to odd to me to attach that type of emotion to soap! I even began to avoid conversations with him but at that time I never thought of the Amway organization as a cult but it is funny that I just read that article, saw this in the forum and had that experience with my friend. Can't Mary Kay be like that to? I guess we all need something to get fired up about but like the manic phase in a manic/dreprssive illustrates the less thrilling middle of the road, all things in moderation is the more healthy approach to life. I prefer to get out that manic energy by dancing. I was invited to an Amway meeting once and it reminded me too much of the DLM thang so I left. My wife was doing the Mary Kay thang for a few months. I told her it reminded me of the 'Guru club' (my affectionate term for DLM) and she agreed once she left Mary Kay. She was told that she was a failure because she didn't want to continue selling and that she was going to regret it the rest of her life. I noticed that she had rotton vegetables inside, but I kept quiet :-) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 20:59:22 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Robyn Subject: Mary Kay (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: Dear Robyn - I think Amway is actually considered to be a cult, while Mary Kay is not (although it has some of the same trappings). I hate to criticize Mary Kay, although I don't use any of their products, because I have personally known some women who have felt quite empowered and less worthless after joining Mary Kay and learning that they actually CAN sell stuff and be successful. See the movie 'Fried Green Tomatoes' if you want to know what I mean. Plus Mary Kay products are reasonably good (my mom uses them). But there is stuff about Amway on the web that is pretty scary. Regards from Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 22:09:37 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: stalking@freewheeling.com To: Katie Subject: The 'Fuller Brush Man' (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: Dear Robyn - I think Amway is actually considered to be a cult, while Mary Kay is not (although it has some of the same trappings). I hate to criticize Mary Kay, although I don't use any of their products, because I have personally known some women who have felt quite empowered and less worthless after joining Mary Kay and learning that they actually CAN sell stuff and be successful. See the movie 'Fried Green Tomatoes' if you want to know what I mean. Plus Mary Kay products are reasonably good (my mom uses them). But there is stuff about Amway on the web that is pretty scary. Regards from Katie Katie, et al: Well, I started to reminisce about when I was a kid on the farm and the excitement I used to have when the 'Fuller Brush Man' came, about once a year. I don't know what there was about the guy but he sort of hypnotized me or something. I used to get this blissful feeling between my eyes... no kidding! It was sort of like a narcotic. It was something about the way the guy talked... I don't know. I wonder if there are any Fuller Brush Men still around? The guy didn't have a name, as far as I know. He didn't need one. (Hope this doesn't sound too weird. I used to have the same feeling about barbers, only not as intense.) -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 23:52:56 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: gone fishin' To: Scott T. Subject: Re: The 'Fuller Brush Man' (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: Well, I started to reminisce about when I was a kid on the farm and the excitement I used to have when the 'Fuller Brush Man' came, about once a year. I don't know what there was about the guy but he sort of hypnotized me or something. I used to get this blissful feeling between my eyes... no kidding! It was sort of like a narcotic. It was something about the way the guy talked... I don't know. I wonder if there are any Fuller Brush Men still around? The guy didn't have a name, as far as I know. He didn't need one. (Hope this doesn't sound too weird. I used to have the same feeling about barbers, only not as intense.) -Scott OK Scott, now I am curious to know where you grew up. I had a friend who grew up on a farm in Wisconsin, and he thought I was lying when I told him about the Good Humor man coming to our house and selling us ice cream. HE only remembered the people from Kentucky coming to his farm to sell gates, by the way! BTW, I don't think there are Fuller Brush men anymore, although I do remember them. I think it's all done by catalog now. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 00:02:39 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: JW Subject: Re: AMWAY (It's a Mormon thing) (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: I met several people who are fairly high up in Amway who moved here from Michigan. They are loaded and they are also Mormon. They said that many Amway folks are Mormon which may explain why Amway supports those political causes that you mentioned. I suppose that the Mormons are a cult, too, which would make Amway a cult within a cult... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 01:19:21 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: Scott T. Subject: Re: The 'Fuller Brush Man' (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: Well, I started to reminisce about when I was a kid on the farm and the excitement I used to have when the 'Fuller Brush Man' came, about once a year. I don't know what there was about the guy but he sort of hypnotized me or something. I used to get this blissful feeling between my eyes... no kidding! It was sort of like a narcotic. It was something about the way the guy talked... I don't know. I wonder if there are any Fuller Brush Men still around? The guy didn't have a name, as far as I know. He didn't need one. (Hope this doesn't sound too weird. I used to have the same feeling about barbers, only not as intense.) -Scott A fetish for the fuller brush man and barbers. HMMMMM, now, what could they possibly have in common? Could it be, I dont' know,....... maybe........ BRUSHES? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 02:44:05 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: Katie Subject: Re: The 'Fuller Brush Man' (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: Well, I started to reminisce about when I was a kid on the farm and the excitement I used to have when the 'Fuller Brush Man' came, about once a year. I don't know what there was about the guy but he sort of hypnotized me or something. I used to get this blissful feeling between my eyes... no kidding! It was sort of like a narcotic. It was something about the way the guy talked... I don't know. I wonder if there are any Fuller Brush Men still around? The guy didn't have a name, as far as I know. He didn't need one. (Hope this doesn't sound too weird. I used to have the same feeling about barbers, only not as intense.) -Scott OK Scott, now I am curious to know where you grew up. I had a friend who grew up on a farm in Wisconsin, and he thought I was lying when I told him about the Good Humor man coming to our house and selling us ice cream. HE only remembered the people from Kentucky coming to his farm to sell gates, by the way! BTW, I don't think there are Fuller Brush men anymore, although I do remember them. I think it's all done by catalog now. The Good Humor Man is nothing! When I was a kid on Okinawa, women used to come to the door selling fish! They carried them in a washtub on top of their heads. I was surprised when I came to the U.S. and there were no fish ladies, just Ice Cream men and the Fuller Brush Guy. I liked him because he would give me a free comb; the fish lady never gave me free fish! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 08:01:13 (EST)
Poster: Neolife was a Mormon Thing Email: To: VP Subject: Re: AMWAY (It's a Mormon thing) (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: I met several people who are fairly high up in Amway who moved here from Michigan. They are loaded and they are also Mormon. They said that many Amway folks are Mormon which may explain why Amway supports those political causes that you mentioned. I suppose that the Mormons are a cult, too, which would make Amway a cult within a cult... VP: When I was a premie in L.A. many of us were into an organization very similar to Amway. They also carried a line of survival foods that were designed to last at least 10 years or more in storage. Healthfoods, vitamins, non-toxic soap, stuff like that. I think the organization was actually owned by Mormans, or perhaps by the church itself. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 11:45:36 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult) Message: I must admit that I have a friend who sells Mary Kay but seems to have avoided the cult mentality. It is a side thing and most of her 'parties' are parties with friends, an excuse to get together. I don't even wear make up, never have and I have a great time. There are alcoholic beverages and even though I don't drink any more because I am a diabetic that seems to set the mood for the festivities. I have on the other hand suggested getting together just for its own sake. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 11:51:22 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Katie Subject: Re: Mary Kay (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: Dear Robyn - I think Amway is actually considered to be a cult, while Mary Kay is not (although it has some of the same trappings). I hate to criticize Mary Kay, although I don't use any of their products, because I have personally known some women who have felt quite empowered and less worthless after joining Mary Kay and learning that they actually CAN sell stuff and be successful. See the movie 'Fried Green Tomatoes' if you want to know what I mean. Plus Mary Kay products are reasonably good (my mom uses them). But there is stuff about Amway on the web that is pretty scary. Regards from Katie Dear Katie, I am new to the forum and haven't gotten the hang of it quite yet as I haven't adressed any messages so far but I've noticed your name and don't think it would work out that easily but I knew a Katie who was a premie in W. Orange, NJ. She went to Rome to see M and discovered a tubal pregnancy while she was there and lost the baby in Italy. I always just loved her and would love to touch base with her again. I don't suppose you are she? Thanks for the response anyway. I did see Fried Green Tomatoes but don't remember anything about Mary Kay, guess I'll have to see it again. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 11:53:49 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Katie Subject: Re: Mary Kay to Katie (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: Dear Robyn - I think Amway is actually considered to be a cult, while Mary Kay is not (although it has some of the same trappings). I hate to criticize Mary Kay, although I don't use any of their products, because I have personally known some women who have felt quite empowered and less worthless after joining Mary Kay and learning that they actually CAN sell stuff and be successful. See the movie 'Fried Green Tomatoes' if you want to know what I mean. Plus Mary Kay products are reasonably good (my mom uses them). But there is stuff about Amway on the web that is pretty scary. Regards from Katie Dear Katie, I am new to the forum and haven't gotten the hang of it quite yet as I haven't adressed any messages so far but I've noticed your name and don't think it would work out that easily but I knew a Katie who was a premie in W. Orange, NJ. She went to Rome to see M and discovered a tubal pregnancy while she was there and lost the baby in Italy. I always just loved her and would love to touch base with her again. I don't suppose you are she? Thanks for the response anyway. I did see Fried Green Tomatoes but don't remember anything about Mary Kay, guess I'll have to see it again. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 14:02:09 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: JW Subject: Re: The 'Fuller Brush Man' (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: JW: Regarding: A fetish for the fuller brush man and barbers. HMMMMM, now, what could they possibly have in common? Could it be, I dont' know,....... maybe........ BRUSHES? ... except that barbers never used brushes on me at that time, and the FBM almost never showed me brushes. My belief is that it has something to do with getting permission to be completely passive in the interaction. No response is required so I just soak it in by osmosis. I still have to remind myself to maintain some awareness in the barber chair or I end up with a pretty bad haircut. I expect the experience may be very similar to that of a cat that purrs while being stroked. Maybe I was a cat in a past life... -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 14:10:04 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: Scott Subject: Mormon=another cult (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: I met several people who are fairly high up in Amway who moved here from Michigan. They are loaded and they are also Mormon. They said that many Amway folks are Mormon which may explain why Amway supports those political causes that you mentioned. I suppose that the Mormons are a cult, too, which would make Amway a cult within a cult... VP: When I was a premie in L.A. many of us were into an organization very similar to Amway. They also carried a line of survival foods that were designed to last at least 10 years or more in storage. Healthfoods, vitamins, non-toxic soap, stuff like that. I think the organization was actually owned by Mormans, or perhaps by the church itself. -Scott Scott, This doesn't surprise me. The Mormons own a LOT of things in this country. Any United States citizens want to know your heritage? You may not know it, but the Mormons do! They have a huge library in Utah where they have all of the birth records, death certificates, marriage licences, etc. for the country. Want a baby? If you are a Mormon there is no need to wait. They can find a white infant for you in less than six months! Need welfare? They can provide that for you, too. (They still don't have the one thing that they truly want to own though: Independence, Missouri-home of the future Zion according to Joseph Smith. Well, that's another cult and I should probably post this on the ex-mormon website.) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 19:28:50 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Robyn Subject: Re: Mary Kay to Katie (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: Dear Robyn - I think Amway is actually considered to be a cult, while Mary Kay is not (although it has some of the same trappings). I hate to criticize Mary Kay, although I don't use any of their products, because I have personally known some women who have felt quite empowered and less worthless after joining Mary Kay and learning that they actually CAN sell stuff and be successful. See the movie 'Fried Green Tomatoes' if you want to know what I mean. Plus Mary Kay products are reasonably good (my mom uses them). But there is stuff about Amway on the web that is pretty scary. Regards from Katie Dear Katie, I am new to the forum and haven't gotten the hang of it quite yet as I haven't adressed any messages so far but I've noticed your name and don't think it would work out that easily but I knew a Katie who was a premie in W. Orange, NJ. She went to Rome to see M and discovered a tubal pregnancy while she was there and lost the baby in Italy. I always just loved her and would love to touch base with her again. I don't suppose you are she? Thanks for the response anyway. I did see Fried Green Tomatoes but don't remember anything about Mary Kay, guess I'll have to see it again. Robyn Hi Robyn, Glad you're on the forum! I am sorry, but I'm not the Katie you're looking for (I too knew premies who I'd love to see again but probably never will). Most women named Katie are a lot younger than me - however it seems that quite a few of the ones my age were premies! Anyway, my name is Katie Haering, but I was called 'Mischa' when I was a premie (that was my hippie name - it's embarrassing now, but some people still call me that to this day! At least it wasn't 'StarShine' like another friend of mine!) My story is in the Journeys list. Like you, my experience with Maharaji was not that bad - mostly because I was in a pretty bad place when I got knowledge, and the premies really helped me. I got involved with the ex-premie site because 1) I found out that a premie friend of mine had committed suicide and 2) I read some of the posts from people who had lived in the ashrams while I was a premie, and got really angry. Take care, Katie P.S. Re: Mary Kay - the Kathy Bates character in 'Fried Green Tomatoes' starts selling Mary Kay. Actually, it might have been more emphasized in the book than in the movie (I highly recommend the book - it is great!) I'm not a big Mary Kay fan (I rarely wear makeup), but as I said, I know two women whose self-esteem has been improved greatly by becoming Mary Kay saleswomen. It's not for everyone, though, as Michael's wife's story shows. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 19:36:58 (EST)
Poster: Katie off topic Email: To: Scott T. Subject: Re: The 'Fuller Brush Man' (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: Scott - I totally relate. I love getting my hair shampooed at the beauty parlor (except I haven't been in ten years...) Are you the oldest child in your family by any chance? Could have to do with the relief of not having to be responsible! I know that's what it is for me. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 19:37:20 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Katie Subject: Re: Mary Kay to Katie (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: Katie, I read Fried Green Tomatoes a long time ago I think, wasn't the book called At the Whistle Stop Cafe, or am I thinking of another book. My memory doesn't serve me very well, to much abuse in my younger days. I didn't think you'd be the Katie I knew but thanks for responding anyway. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 13, 1998 at 20:09:32 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Katie off topic Subject: Re: The 'Fuller Brush Man' (Re: AMWAY (The Real Cult)) Message: Katie: Thanks for that insight. I AM the oldest child. Hmmm. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 10, 1998 at 18:28:49 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: To: David Subject: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed? Message: Hi David, I'm reposting this as I didn't see it. Have you heard of the alternative therapies I mentioned? I believe they might be helpful? > Come on now Gumby, you're not going to convert anyone > HERE to Christianity. I am sharing my experiences. If anyone is willing to listen and engage, great. I don't have the gift of telling the future (as apparently you do :)) so I can't say what will or won't happen here in the future. > After all we've been through > do you really think we're going to be interested? I would venture to guess that it is BECAUSE of all that you have been through that you would be open to sharing? > I had a Near Death Experience myself. Can you share that experience? > It was very comforting and there was much love and > understanding there. There is no hell to frighten > us with. I'm not trying to frighten you. > God is > unconditional love. That means, love with no conditions > and no strings attatched. I asked in the last post, what you share with me on this? Is it a feeling, a direct experience? I'm interested. > End of story. David, You're an open person? Isn't the very reason that you joined m was that you had a sincere desire, a sincere openness to experience God? If you think that you are in some way special, You are right! But, it is not because you followed m. You are special, because God loves you more than any human could ever imagine or be capable of imagining. Is it not a possibility that the very one God that you so desire is waiting, waiting for you to just accept Him? Are you open enough to be open to it? God doesn't want your money. God doesn't want you to hop on jets and disrupt your family to follow him. God doesn't require service or works from you. What do you have to lose? Grace and God be with you. -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 10, 1998 at 18:50:07 (EST)
Poster: CB Email: To: gumby Subject: Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed? Message: Hi David, I'm reposting this as I didn't see it. Have you heard of the alternative therapies I mentioned? I believe they might be helpful? > Come on now Gumby, you're not going to convert anyone > HERE to Christianity. I am sharing my experiences. If anyone is willing to listen and engage, great. I don't have the gift of telling the future (as apparently you do :)) so I can't say what will or won't happen here in the future. > After all we've been through > do you really think we're going to be interested? I would venture to guess that it is BECAUSE of all that you have been through that you would be open to sharing? > I had a Near Death Experience myself. Can you share that experience? > It was very comforting and there was much love and > understanding there. There is no hell to frighten > us with. I'm not trying to frighten you. > God is > unconditional love. That means, love with no conditions > and no strings attatched. I asked in the last post, what you share with me on this? Is it a feeling, a direct experience? I'm interested. > End of story. David, You're an open person? Isn't the very reason that you joined m was that you had a sincere desire, a sincere openness to experience God? If you think that you are in some way special, You are right! But, it is not because you followed m. You are special, because God loves you more than any human could ever imagine or be capable of imagining. Is it not a possibility that the very one God that you so desire is waiting, waiting for you to just accept Him? Are you open enough to be open to it? God doesn't want your money. God doesn't want you to hop on jets and disrupt your family to follow him. God doesn't require service or works from you. What do you have to lose? Grace and God be with you. -gumby Indeed, God is inside of me, and I have nothing to lose either. And I don't even need to be a christian. Grace and God be with you too :) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 10, 1998 at 20:56:04 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: gumby Subject: Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed? Message: Thanks for the information on therapy. I will check them out with a specialist when I see him. My NDE plus other experiences I've had are all on the archives, by the way. But really, you're only interested in making more converts, I realise that. Why try here? We're beyond redemption. There are many more people elsewhere who will be far more open to your religion. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 10, 1998 at 23:51:55 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: To: David Subject: Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed? Message: Thanks for the information on therapy. I will check them out with a specialist when I see him. My NDE plus other experiences I've had are all on the archives, by the way. But really, you're only interested in making more converts, I realise that. Why try here? We're beyond redemption. There are many more people elsewhere who will be far more open to your religion. Hi David, I hope you do your own research on the therapies, as there aren't many conventional doctors who are open to alternatives. I guess it just depends on how bad your situation is, and how motivated you are to feel well. I will try to look up your shared experiences. Do you remember the rough time frame, so as to not have to download many MB's of data? My friend, I really am *not* interested in converting you. I am interested in discussing and sharing my experiences as well as yours. In my first post, I spoke that this is *not* about religiousity or churchianity. I believe we do have things in common, for starters we both believe that m is a fraud. Grace and God be with you. -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 00:05:23 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: To: CB Subject: Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed? Message: Hi CB, Thanks for your response. > Indeed, God is inside of me, and I have nothing to lose > either. What does it mean that God is within you? > And I don't even need to be a christian. > Grace and God be with you too :) Thank you! Same to you. -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 11:37:52 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: CB Subject: Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed? Message: Hi David, I'm reposting this as I didn't see it. Have you heard of the alternative therapies I mentioned? I believe they might be helpful? > Come on now Gumby, you're not going to convert anyone > HERE to Christianity. I am sharing my experiences. If anyone is willing to listen and engage, great. I don't have the gift of telling the future (as apparently you do :)) so I can't say what will or won't happen here in the future. > After all we've been through > do you really think we're going to be interested? I would venture to guess that it is BECAUSE of all that you have been through that you would be open to sharing? > I had a Near Death Experience myself. Can you share that experience? > It was very comforting and there was much love and > understanding there. There is no hell to frighten > us with. I'm not trying to frighten you. > God is > unconditional love. That means, love with no conditions > and no strings attatched. I asked in the last post, what you share with me on this? Is it a feeling, a direct experience? I'm interested. > End of story. David, You're an open person? Isn't the very reason that you joined m was that you had a sincere desire, a sincere openness to experience God? If you think that you are in some way special, You are right! But, it is not because you followed m. You are special, because God loves you more than any human could ever imagine or be capable of imagining. Is it not a possibility that the very one God that you so desire is waiting, waiting for you to just accept Him? Are you open enough to be open to it? God doesn't want your money. God doesn't want you to hop on jets and disrupt your family to follow him. God doesn't require service or works from you. What do you have to lose? Grace and God be with you. -gumby Indeed, God is inside of me, and I have nothing to lose either. And I don't even need to be a christian. Grace and God be with you too :) EXACTLY! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 12:15:36 (EST)
Poster: Joy Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com To: gumby Subject: Re: M.E. Therapies (Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed?) Message: Dear Gumby, I am going to leave the Christianity issue aside here and address something you said to David which I found somewhat offensive: -snip- I hope you do your own research on the therapies, as there aren't many conventional doctors who are open to alternatives. I guess it just depends on how bad your situation is, and how motivated you are to feel well. -snip- Gumby, do you know how easy it is when you feel like hell and can barely get out of bed to run about and research every screwball therapy on the planet? Not to mention where you'd get the money from when your income has disappeared since you haven't worked properly in years and a slightly more pressing concern is how to pay the rent and buy food? Think about this for a minute. Remember the last time you had flu and were in bed. How motivated were you to get well? Could you have checked out (and paid for) all those therapies you listed at that time? I have watched people spend THOUSANDS of dollars (and have done so myself) to try and correct chronic, disabling conditions such as ME and MCS, and gotten absolutely nowhere. True, there are some things which do help a little, such as certain expensive supplements on an ongoing basis. But to blame a person who has a chronic illness for not being well because he's not motivated enough annoys me no end. Try walking a mile in these shoes before issuing cavalier statements like this. And also, please don't take this TOO personally, as I'm just letting off steam -- people with ME and CFS get to listen to this kind of thing ALL the time, from just about everyone. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 13:11:58 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Joy Subject: Re: M.E. Therapies (Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed?) Message: Joy: Another rather naive aspect of Gumby's statement is that the issue is not so much whether people investigate all of these alternative treatments, but whether they actually work. I have a friend with Chrone's who is part of an ongoing clinical trial maintained by Johns Hopkins. He has apparently learned some fairly subtle techniques to manage what is usually a fatal illness, and is one of only a handful of Chrone's sufferers who is actually overweight. It is normally a 'wasting' disease, the ultimate cause of which is still rather mysterious. They don't know exactly how people contract the organism that causes the problem. Gumby either doesn't know how to express himself as well as he might, or he's somewhat self-preoccupied (or perhaps just naive). This is not, however, to disparage his personal spiritual experiences. I personally find it difficult to take the leap of faith that he seems to have done (and is recommending to others, apparently). I find some aspects of the New Testament convincing, and others rather outrageously exploitative. What about that couple that apparently croaked because that had kept some of their personal net worth in reserve rather than reporting it to the Apostles and thereby making it fair game for spiritual pressure to contribute. To me, this raises questions about the entire testimony of the Apostles concerning the resurrection and other matters. What a convenient little parable for them! -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 13:32:46 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: To: Joy Subject: Re: M.E. Therapies (Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed?) Message: Hi Joy, > Dear Gumby, I am going to leave the Christianity issue > aside here and address something you said to David > which I found somewhat offensive: I'm sorry, it wasn't meant to be offensive. And I thought it was directed towards David. >> -snip- >> I hope you do your own research on the therapies, as >> there aren't many conventional doctors who are open to >> alternatives. I guess it just depends on how bad your >> situation is, and how motivated you are to feel well. >> -snip- > Gumby, do you know how easy it is when you feel like > hell and can barely get out of bed to run about and > research every screwball therapy on the planet? Yes I do, that is why I commented on the subject. The therapies I brought up are not screwball therapies, they are known to work. Obviously, everyone is different so as to whether they would be helpful to David or yourself I don't know. That is where you would have to try them. There is a lot of information on the net so it wouldn't take more effort to do preliminary research than you typing this message.(Actually less :)) > Not to mention where you'd get the money from when your > income has disappeared since you > haven't worked properly in years and a slightly more > pressing concern is how to pay the rent and buy food? The therapies I mentioned are not expensive. I believe that when it comes to certain chronic illness' the best solutions are often the best hope. > Think about this for a minute. Remember the last time you > had flu and were in bed. How motivated were you to get > well? Could you have checked > out (and paid for) all those therapies you listed at > that time? As I mentioned, these therapies are not expensive. (Unless someone without any integrity is trying to push them) Joy, I'll look up a couple of URL's for you and David to check out. > I have watched people spend THOUSANDS of > dollars (and have done so myself) to try and correct > chronic, disabling conditions such as ME and MCS, and > gotten absolutely nowhere. It sounds like you are confirming my belief that chronic illness' need to be looked at in different ways. Not necessarily expensive ways! > True, there are some things > which do help a little, such as certain expensive > supplements on an ongoing basis. > But to blame a person > who has a chronic illness for not being well because > he's not motivated enough annoys me no end. Joy, David said the following: 'I will check them out with a specialist when I see him' All I was doing was responding that if our well being is predicated solely upon another person (specialist in this case) then YES, I would question ones own motivation. Having been in severe chronic situations, I do feel I can share my opinion. Your being annoyed at me is not healthy for you, and I believe you are misunderstanding my intent. > Try walking > a mile in these shoes before issuing cavalier statements > like this. I have walked not miles, but marathons in shoes. Not in your shoes but in my own. You may at least question a person before you assume that the person is outright trying to be cavalier. > And also, please don't take this TOO > personally, as I'm just letting off steam -- I understand. I am not taking it personally. > people with ME and CFS get to listen to this kind of > thing ALL the time, from just about everyone. Joy, I am trying to provide another way of looking at things. If you have tried the things, fine. If you haven't, the choice is yours. I hope you do feel better, I hope David feels better. I wish you all well. Both you and David are in my prayers. Grace and God be with you. -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 18:03:15 (EST)
Poster: Joy Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com To: gumby Subject: Re: M.E. Therapies (Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed?) Message: Dear Gumby, I guess I did fly off the handle somewhat there, and am glad you didn't take it personally, and I realize you were just trying to be helpful with your suggestions. I would rather have addressed those comments to you privately, but since you don't provide an e-mail address with your posts, you must assume that things you put on the Forum will be seen by all, and commented upon. And since David and I have similar health conditions, I felt I needed to say what I did. Have you noticed that almost all of the regular and serious posters to this Forum provide their e-mail address? It's frustrating when people do not and I don't understand it, personally, but I guess that's your prerogative. What are people afraid of? It's an awfully big planet and it's highly unlikely any of us is going to bump into each other on the street. On AOL you can have up to five different accounts separate from your main one, so one needn't even use your main e-mail name, hence assuring anonymity. And the fact that you also anonymously rather condescendingly fling your religious views around is somewhat bothersome, which is probably why I was inspired to respond as vehemently as I did. Gumby, I see nothing wrong with someone being a Christian, I think it's a wonderful religion, but sometimes Christians are just a tad guilty of being overbearing and not allowing others to have their own views and beliefs, thinking THEIRS the only valid one. Now, I also realize that the motivation of Christians in pushing Christianity down everyone's throat is that they truly believe that in doing so they are helping save people from the fires of hell for all eternity, so I can't fault them too much, since it is a pure motivation. (The same way I can't fault the Hare Krisna's for chanting on the street, since they sincerely believe that just hearing the name of Krsna will cause whoever's eardrums it strikes to attain liberation.) And I really don't mind that you pray for me or David. In fact, I appreciate it! We need all the help we can get! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 19:55:27 (EST)
Poster: The Email: bill52@rocketmail.com To: Joy Subject: Zone (Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed?) Message: Did you hear about Eicosanoids? (eye-kah-sah-noids) They are the most powerful hormones in the body. they control every cell, organ, every system. 1982 Nobel prize went to research on this subject. There are both good and bad types. Basically the latest research says that there is a range of effective protein to carbohydrate ratios that will determine your bodies production of eicosanoids. For the vast majority of people this carburater works best at a 1:1 ratio. And the right kind of fats at every meal. This book called 'the zone' was reccomended by some AMA doctors to friends who have CFS and fiber myalgia and lupus. Maybe your doctor has an opinion on the zone? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 02:10:07 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: megumby@hotmail.com To: Joy,David Subject: Re: M.E. Therapies (Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed?) Message: Hi Joy,David, I found a few resources for ME/CFS on the net. I hope these might be helpful to you. [general links to ME/CFS related sites] http://jvm.com/health/links.htm [general faq on ME/CFS] http://www.alternatives.com/cfs-news/faq.htm [general faq on Oxygen related therapies] http://www.oxytherapy.com/faq.html [good starting place, search their MAILING LIST ARCHIVE] http://www.oxytherapy.com/search.html [info about the 'ZONE' diet by Dr. Barry Sears] http://www.zonehome.com/ [info about blood type diet by Dr. Peter D'Adamo] http://www.dadamo.com/ The following are newsgroups that could perhaps put you in more direct contact with other people suffering from ME/CFS. You will need a newsreader and your ISP will need to provide you with a feed. alt.health.cfs alt.health.cfids-action alt.health.oxygen-therapy alt.med.cfs alt.med.cfs.chat alt.med.cfs.info alt.med.cfs.open misc.health.alternative sci.med.diseases.lyme misc.health.alternative I enjoy discussing topics that are important. You have indicated that: > 'And the fact that you also anonymously rather > condescendingly fling your religious views around is > somewhat bothersome' In all fairness, please tell me how I have been 'condescendingly flinging religious views' around? I do have my beliefs, but I don't remember being condescending to anyone, please refresh my memory. I guess one reason that I am excited about sharing my beliefs, is not so that I want to shove something down anybody's throat. That is bogus. That does not allow us to test what Truth is. Thank you for allowing me to pray for you. Grace and God be with you -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 02:45:31 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: megumby@hotmail.com To: Scott T. Subject: Re: ME and more (Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed?) Message: Hi Scott, You wrote: > Gumby either doesn't know how to express himself as well > as he might, or he's somewhat self-preoccupied (or perhaps > just naive). I certainly would like to learn how to more effectively express myself. I would appreciate any *constructive* comments from you. > What about that couple that apparently croaked because > that had kept some of their personal net worth in reserve > rather than reporting it to the Apostles and thereby > making it fair game for spiritual pressure to contribute. > To me, this raises questions about the entire testimony of > the Apostles concerning the resurrection and other > matters. What a convenient little parable for them! I believe your referenced passage from scripture is in the book of Acts 5:1-10, the story about Ananias and Sapphira. I believe the whole point about this passage has nothing to do with spiritual pressure to contribute, but about how uncool it is to lie to God. You can lie to yourself(it is not good), you can lie to your neighbor (also not good), but to lie to God is not acceptable. The last part of verse 4 says: 'You have not lied to men but to God'. The passage is further clarified when Sapphiira comes by several hours later and not knowing that her husband is dead, is asked by Peter: 'Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?' And she responded 'Yes, that is the price', (At this point you are on the edge of your seat, thinking No, Sapphira, No tell the truth...), but she lied to God. This is clarified in verse 9 when Peter said to her: 'How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord...' I believe that if Ananias and Sapphira had merely been honest the passage would have had a radically different outcome. Grace and God be with you. -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 12:04:01 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Joy and Gumpy Subject: Re: M.E. Therapies (Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed?) Message: Dear Gumby, I guess I did fly off the handle somewhat there, and am glad you didn't take it personally, and I realize you were just trying to be helpful with your suggestions. I would rather have addressed those comments to you privately, but since you don't provide an e-mail address with your posts, you must assume that things you put on the Forum will be seen by all, and commented upon. And since David and I have similar health conditions, I felt I needed to say what I did. Have you noticed that almost all of the regular and serious posters to this Forum provide their e-mail address? It's frustrating when people do not and I don't understand it, personally, but I guess that's your prerogative. What are people afraid of? It's an awfully big planet and it's highly unlikely any of us is going to bump into each other on the street. On AOL you can have up to five different accounts separate from your main one, so one needn't even use your main e-mail name, hence assuring anonymity. And the fact that you also anonymously rather condescendingly fling your religious views around is somewhat bothersome, which is probably why I was inspired to respond as vehemently as I did. Gumby, I see nothing wrong with someone being a Christian, I think it's a wonderful religion, but sometimes Christians are just a tad guilty of being overbearing and not allowing others to have their own views and beliefs, thinking THEIRS the only valid one. Now, I also realize that the motivation of Christians in pushing Christianity down everyone's throat is that they truly believe that in doing so they are helping save people from the fires of hell for all eternity, so I can't fault them too much, since it is a pure motivation. (The same way I can't fault the Hare Krisna's for chanting on the street, since they sincerely believe that just hearing the name of Krsna will cause whoever's eardrums it strikes to attain liberation.) And I really don't mind that you pray for me or David. In fact, I appreciate it! We need all the help we can get! Joy and Gumby, That is my objection to Christianity. What about not judging others. Why don't they use that quote from where ever it is in the bible as a montra. It makes me angry. I have a sister who is Christian and one friend and they both are wonderful people and work at not judging others but most Christians I've encountered, including my brother-in-law are in it up to their necks! Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 13:12:20 (EST)
Poster: gumby, or is it gumpy Email: megumby@hotmail.com To: Robyn Subject: Re: M.E. Therapies (Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed?) Message: Hi Robyn, You wrote: > Joy and Gumby, > That is my objection to Christianity. What about not > judging others. Why don't they use that quote from where > ever it is in the bible as a montra. It makes me > angry. I have a sister who is Christian and one friend and > they both are wonderful people and work at not judging > others but most Christians I've encountered, > including my brother-in-law are in it up to their necks! > Robyn I have reread my posts and am confused about why you are thinking that I am judging you? I started the original thread by asking some questions. Ok, maybe the questions were engaging, but what is wrong with that? I believe it is important to ask myself, what is the motivation of someone who is trying to share their own beliefs with me? The answer will, of course, depend on each situation. I am open to sharing my experience about my relationship with God. There is joy within me, yes I do want to share that. Grace and God be with you. gumpy gumby :) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 16:01:36 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: gumby, or is it gumpy Subject: Gumby (Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed?) Message: Hi Robyn, You wrote: > Joy and Gumby, > That is my objection to Christianity. What about not > judging others. Why don't they use that quote from where > ever it is in the bible as a montra. It makes me > angry. I have a sister who is Christian and one friend and > they both are wonderful people and work at not judging > others but most Christians I've encountered, > including my brother-in-law are in it up to their necks! > Robyn I have reread my posts and am confused about why you are thinking that I am judging you? I started the original thread by asking some questions. Ok, maybe the questions were engaging, but what is wrong with that? I believe it is important to ask myself, what is the motivation of someone who is trying to share their own beliefs with me? The answer will, of course, depend on each situation. I am open to sharing my experience about my relationship with God. There is joy within me, yes I do want to share that. Grace and God be with you. gumpy gumby :) Dear Gumby, I was responding to a post from Joy and included you because you are Christian. I am not saying anyone is judging unless I have that impression of them. I haven't quite figured out what I think of you but that doesn't it really matter to me at this time I just notice that there is discord between things you say and people's reactions to them which makes me want to stay out of it. I guess you need to read Joy's message to understand mine. I thought I had it quoted but maybe I forgot. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 16:06:33 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: gumby, or is it gumpy Subject: Re: M.E. Therapies (Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed?) Message: Hi Robyn, You wrote: > Joy and Gumby, > That is my objection to Christianity. What about not > judging others. Why don't they use that quote from where > ever it is in the bible as a montra. It makes me > angry. I have a sister who is Christian and one friend and > they both are wonderful people and work at not judging > others but most Christians I've encountered, > including my brother-in-law are in it up to their necks! > Robyn I have reread my posts and am confused about why you are thinking that I am judging you? I started the original thread by asking some questions. Ok, maybe the questions were engaging, but what is wrong with that? I believe it is important to ask myself, what is the motivation of someone who is trying to share their own beliefs with me? The answer will, of course, depend on each situation. I am open to sharing my experience about my relationship with God. There is joy within me, yes I do want to share that. Grace and God be with you. gumpy gumby :) Gumby, Hey why did you write that gumpy thing. It is funny because I have to keep checking your 'name' because I think grumby. Is that your real name? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 16:53:48 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: gumby Subject: Ananias and Saphirra (Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed?) Message: Gumby: Regarding: I believe the whole point about this passage has nothing to do with spiritual pressure to contribute, but about how uncool it is to lie to God. You can lie to yourself(it is not good), you can lie to your neighbor (also not good), but to lie to God is not acceptable. I am aware of this interpretation, and have always accepted it in the past. What bothers me about it is the concept that the couple is somehow led to connect lying to the Apostles with lying to God. I think if you had asked the two directly they'd have acknowledged that lying to God is an impossibility, since He knows our thought intimately anyhow. It is also possible to interpret their 'sin' as an attempt to mislead the flock into thinking that they were more dedicated than they really were, except that's not how it's presented. And besides, if misleading the flock deserves an immediate death penalty why is MJ still alive? There is just something fishy about the whole story. It reeks of manipulation. Still, my experience is not comprehensive, and I'm open to the possibility that future experiences will either justify or dispel my skepticism. As for your skill at communication, we could all improve. I have seriously offended people in emails without intending to. It is very difficult to set shades of meaning and invoke irony without sounding offensive sometimes. If we knew Russian it might be easier. Russian has hundreds of different words for 'hello,' each with subtly different serious, humorous or ironic meanings that convey the context of the greeting and something about the intent. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 18:06:22 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: megumby@hotmail.com To: Robyn Subject: Re: M.E. Therapies (Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed?) Message: Hi Robyn, You wrote: > Joy and Gumby, > That is my objection to Christianity. What about not > judging others. Why don't they use that quote from where > ever it is in the bible as a montra. It makes me > angry. I have a sister who is Christian and one friend and > they both are wonderful people and work at not judging > others but most Christians I've encountered, > including my brother-in-law are in it up to their necks! > Robyn I have reread my posts and am confused about why you are thinking that I am judging you? I started the original thread by asking some questions. Ok, maybe the questions were engaging, but what is wrong with that? I believe it is important to ask myself, what is the motivation of someone who is trying to share their own beliefs with me? The answer will, of course, depend on each situation. I am open to sharing my experience about my relationship with God. There is joy within me, yes I do want to share that. Grace and God be with you. gumpy gumby :) Gumby, Hey why did you write that gumpy thing. It is funny because I have to keep checking your 'name' because I think grumby. Is that your real name? Hi Robyn, No it is not my real name. But, I don't mind what you call me. I used to be called gumby, when I was a kid. Grace and God be with you. -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 19:16:32 (EST)
Poster: CB Email: To: gumby Subject: Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed? Message: Hi CB, Thanks for your response. > Indeed, God is inside of me, and I have nothing to lose > either. What does it mean that God is within you? > And I don't even need to be a christian. > Grace and God be with you too :) Thank you! Same to you. -gumby It means that the power, or the consciousness inside of everyone, is a part of God. Therefore, God is actually the resident of this body. Not everyone knows that though, but this is a universal truth. Something to contemplate on. CB Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 19:20:56 (EST)
Poster: CB Email: To: gumby Subject: Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed? Message: Hi CB, Thanks for your response. > Indeed, God is inside of me, and I have nothing to lose > either. What does it mean that God is within you? > And I don't even need to be a christian. > Grace and God be with you too :) Thank you! Same to you. -gumby It means that the power, or the consciousness inside of everyone, is God or a part of God. Therefore, God is actually the resident of this body. Not everyone knows that though, but this is a universal truth. Something to contemplate on. CB Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 20:25:44 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: gumby Subject: Re: M.E. Therapies (Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed?) Message: Hi Gumby - I know someone else nicknamed Gumby too - there's probably quite a few in the 'Gumby' generation (last half of Baby Boom and part of Gen X??). I was baptized and confirmed Christinan but am now an agnostic. From what I have read, I think most of the other people on this forum are probably agnostics as well (although I know that we are not ALL agnostics). I've read your messages, and actually have not got the impression that you are preaching Christianity. However, some of the other people on here seem to have got that impression. Are you a Christian, and are you intending to preach Christianity here? You wrote that you were only a follower of Maharaji for six months. I followed him for almost five years, and most of the other people on here followed and believed in him for longer than that. I can't speak for everyone on here, but I know that my years of believing that Maharaji was the incarnation of God, and then becoming disillusioned, predisposed me to believe that no human being has EVER been the incarnation of God on the planet. I respect Jesus Christ and his teachings, but I don't believe that he was the incarnation of God. I think (although am not sure) that most of the other people on here feel similarly. Thus we may be overly defensive around people that we feel are Christians. Again, I'm not really sure where you're coming from, but this may help clarify where I (and possibly some of the rest of us) are coming from. Regards from Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 21:52:41 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: megumby@hotmail.com To: Katie Subject: Your set of questions. (Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed?) Message: Hi Katie, Thanks for your response. You wrote: > I've read your messages, and actually have not got the > impression that you are preaching Christianity. However, > some of the other people on here > seem to have got that impression. Are you a Christian, > and are you intending to preach Christianity here? I am sincerely interested in sharing experiences. I have a deep love for Jesus the Christ, I believe he is God, and that because of Him, I have eternal life. I am not interested in shoving anything down anybodys throat. I am interested in sharing, and engaging with people who are honestly interested in doing so. I don't mind challenging myself and others. I know that doesn't exactly answer your question about preaching, but I not exactly sure what you meant. I wouldn't say that I was a true follower of m. I went to videos for around six months with an open heart, but from the very early onset I realized that m was not saying anything I didn't already know. I realized that m's m.o. was to dribble very basic statements and then wrap them in elaborate fodder so as to consume time. I would sometimes take an audio cassette and listen to it and actually take notes. That was interesting, since there was not a lot of coherency in his thoughts. BUT, because he says some basic non-arguable statements, it sounds very good. For example: The breath within me is a precious gift. Well it surely is. It is a very precious gift from God. > I respect Jesus Christ and his > teachings, but I don't believe that he was the > incarnation of God. This is very interesting Katie, because for the past twenty years I had a similar view. It is only now that I am diving into Gods Word, with a open heart. When I used to glance through the bible it was always with a lot of scepticism. As I am going through it now it is totally different. This guy Jesus made some pretty outrageous claims. For me it comes down to three possibilities: 1) He was a liar, 2) He was a lunatic, or 3) He is who he said he is, God. I honestly have not gotten the impression that he was trying to pass himself off as a prophet, or as an another teacher. [Of course, he was a great teacher] Many people bring this up, but it doesn't come from the bible. > most of the other people on here feel similarly. Thus we > may be overly defensive around people > that we feel are Christians. Thats allright, like I said I'm not wanting to shove anything down your throat. I hope I have answered your questions. Grace and God be with you. -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 23:02:25 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: gumby Subject: Re: Your set of questions. (Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed?) Message: Dear Gumby - Thanks for answering my questions. I appreciate your sincerity - really! Regards from Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Fri, Mar 13, 1998 at 01:53:57 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: megumby@hotmail.com To: Scott T. Subject: Re: Ananias and Saphirra (Re: Can 'Bummer' still be viewed?) Message: Hi Scott, I have read your posting carefully, and don't feel I can add alot of insight, at this moment. I still feel like an infant often when it comes to the Word. If you will allow me to be with it for awhile, I would appreciate it. Maybe we could take it off line? Thanks for your perspective. Grace and God be with you -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 10, 1998 at 18:02:57 (EST)
Poster: eb Email: To: Everyone Subject: Deprogramming Mountain Retreat Message: A warm hello to all. I got this idea while I was working out during the noon hour--how about establishing a Deprogramming Mountain Retreat in Southern California (Big Bear is gorgeous). Scott could build us some geodesic dome dwellings, and all the ex's who have become masters can present their techniques. We could have nightly sat-satsang and see who can hold their eyes open the longest. Just a thought for the slow day. BTW, where I am it's 80 degrees out, but we're gearing up for more rain. Love to all, eb Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 10, 1998 at 20:45:31 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: eb Subject: Re: Deprogramming Mountain Retreat Message: Laughter in London England. Yes and all the premies can come to, to tell us the doors are still open. Do some working out for me will you. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 10, 1998 at 23:15:54 (EST)
Poster: John Cavad Email: To: eb Subject: Re: Deprogramming Mountain Retreat Message: I will come to Big Bear and join the retreat. Only a two hour ride for me. I'll bring my BBQ and we can all share in a juicy steak before batsang. We'll need to contact Jim (he's in Mexico right now) to bring all the pictures of GMJ for the alter on the lake.... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 15:28:15 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: To: eb Subject: Re: Deprogramming Mountain Retreat Message: Dear Eb: (BTW where's flo these days?.......get it?....heh heh... ebb and flow? No? Oh well) I think this is a terrific idea that could really work as a full time business venture. I think there is definetly a need for a retreat center for former cult members. The downside is money. Because most former cult members are dead broke when they would most need the anti-cult retreat center. Hmmmm...have to think about it more. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 16:54:18 (EST)
Poster: eb sans flo Email: To: John K. Subject: Re: Deprogramming Mountain Retreat Message: Dear John K., Didn't get it till you said it, and then I groaned. But seriously, I actually had the same realization while working out today (partially for David, who should feel it in his quadriceps right about now). Money is always the issue. But since a very large earthquake is expected in Big Bear, property is dirt cheap. (get it? dirt cheap? oooh) During the 80's and early 90's, a premie friend of mine and I used to go to lots of retreats and healing circles and the like. We were always terribly poor, but we managed to get scholarships to some very expensive 'new age, hooey hooey' workshops. Look for our book: 'Healing Yourself on Scholarship.' (Just kidding). One prosperity group we hooked up with had a great deal: they only asked for 10% of the participants' increased wealth during the 10-week class. (Affirmations, science-of- mind-type stuff. Worked okay). Seems to me that an anti-cult retreat center might be a great service opportunity for someone with a lot of money and a mission; the problem IMHO is when one type of programming is substituted for another, which oftentimes happens on missions. I was grateful when M freed me from the Mormon cult. It took lots of therapy to free me from M. Ultimately, it took lots of therapy to free me from therapy. Take care, eb Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 10, 1998 at 17:53:54 (EST)
Poster: TStribling Email: To: Everyone Subject: The doors are always open. Message: I heard about this site only recently. Someone who had lost track of Maharaji 18 years ago found this site on the web and made contact with an 'ex-premie' and then found his way back to Maharaji. In reading the messages I am touched - amazed - at how many people write lovingly about their first contact, then about how they got 'out' - through girlfriends, jobs, family, friends, whoever and whatever proposition could entice them. Then comes the explanation about how and why life is so much clearer being away. The doors are always open. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 10, 1998 at 19:59:43 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: TStribling Subject: Re: The doors are always open. Message: Ah, word of mouth :) You can believe that there are doors that are always open. Indeed, MJ encourages that view. So do other panhandlers. What ex's got 'out' of is their own inner beliefs which caused them to credit Prem Pal Rawat with being the source of anything positive that they experienced in life. They also got 'out' of having to view contributing to his self-serving 'mission' as being something more than filling the money-pit where he wallows. Maybe someday he'll want out too. Maybe he'll want to sell a few cars and drop the price on his videos. Naw... nothing in it for him. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 10, 1998 at 20:07:18 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com To: TStribling Subject: Re: The doors are always open. Message: I heard about this site only recently. Someone who had lost track of Maharaji 18 years ago found this site on the web and made contact with an 'ex-premie' and then found his way back to Maharaji. In reading the messages I am touched - amazed - at how many people write lovingly about their first contact, then about how they got 'out' - through girlfriends, jobs, family, friends, whoever and whatever proposition could entice them. Then comes the explanation about how and why life is so much clearer being away. The doors are always open. Of course the first contact with a cult is pleasant in some way; otherwise a person wouldn't join. It isn't enticement that facilitates leaving, but awareness that is sometimes catalyzed by another element. You may not be aware of the programming you've undergone. You're always welcome here to discuss it. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 12:26:15 (EST)
Poster: eb Email: To: TStribling Subject: Re: The doors are always open. Message: IMHO-- the door may be open, but there's no way I could delude myself into going through it again. I admit that it takes me a long time to learn life's lessons, and I've had a tendency to learn utilizing the 'straightening by fire' method. (I think they call it Tapasaya(sp) in the Hindu religion). I always say, 'It's like peanut butter' because I ate so much of it as a premie, that I got sick of it. Gratefully, eb Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 10, 1998 at 13:02:55 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: To: Everyone Subject: the lighter side of ... Message: Since there is not much happening on this forum today anyway, I want to mention several tidbits of information that have surfaced lately that I thought very newsworthy. 1. one of our esteemed X's, J. Cavad, mentioned that he gets email from aspirants seeking advice...Wow! That's terrific! I realize the aspirants may not want the publicity, but perhaps JC could share the questions that the aspirants are asking these days. This forum might actually be doing some real good in the world. 2. The 707 was sold to the Maharishi? This according to **, aka bb, so it's still at this moment an unconfirmed rumor. Of course, it had to go to someone right? But how come this was not front page news on the New York Times, or at least the Divine Times. I would think the media would love a story like that, if it's true. 3. I have heard that Katie AND Jim are on vacation? I now suspect the Katie-Mili foolishness was simply a diversion to distract us from the truth which is that Jim is really Katie and vica versa. Which really makes sense when you think of it since they are total opposites. 4. JW is now doing interpretive dances in an effort to communicate with those premies who have spent so long watching videos the left sides of their brains have disappeared. Maybe Joe could start making videos of his dances. Yes, it's a very slow day on the forum. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 10, 1998 at 14:40:52 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: stalking@fleewheeling.com To: John K. Subject: Re: the lighter side of ... Message: John: Regarding: Yes, it's a very slow day on the forum. I noticed this as well. Wonder if the weather has anything to do with it. We're just getting into a late bout of winter. Hopefully it will kill some of the bugs that are incubating and getting ready to devour us this summer. Of course, if you happen to be a bug-EATER this may not be good news. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 10, 1998 at 17:38:45 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: Scott T. Subject: Re: the lighter side of ... Message: John: Regarding: Yes, it's a very slow day on the forum. I noticed this as well. Wonder if the weather has anything to do with it. We're just getting into a late bout of winter. Hopefully it will kill some of the bugs that are incubating and getting ready to devour us this summer. Of course, if you happen to be a bug-EATER this may not be good news. -Scott Well, the weather in California is absolutely gorgeous. No rain, finally, after raining for what seemed like years, clear skies, lots of sunshine. It finally feels like spring. Regarding the 707, I don't know if M sold it to the Maharishi or not, that would be funny, but somehow I think we would have heard about that. Also, because of new aircraft regulations, if M had kept the plane, I think the engines would have to have been replaced by about 1985 or so, because the ones on the plane were too old, were too loud, and polluted too much. I think those engines cost about $250,000 each, so that would have cost a cool million. That's probably why he got rid of the plane, and he probably sold it for a song (maybe one by George Harrison?), or else he sold it to someone who would use it outside the U.S. only. Speaking of George Harrison, about 1980 he was in negotiations with DLM and One Foundation to get the rights to one of One Foundations' songs. It was one that started out 'He's come again, he's here, the one I've been waiting for all these years...'(or something like that). We speculated at the time that since he was singing it about Krishna, that he would have to change the words to: 'He came, he WAS here...' You know, the kind of stuff premies said. I don't think he ever actually bought the song, however. Interpretive dancing is not my forte, but I would rather do it than listen to parables that say nothing, but sound oh so cool and enlightened. I think someone should start a thread about how anti-intellectual Mahararji and his cult were. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 21:15:06 (EST)
Poster: Katie on vacation Email: gone fishing To: John K. Subject: Re: the lighter side of ... Message: I have heard that Katie AND Jim are on vacation? I now suspect the Katie-Mili foolishness was simply a diversion to distract us from the truth which is that Jim is really Katie and vica versa. Which really makes sense when you think of it since they are total opposites. John - Since you are the only person on the forum who has both seen me in the flesh and identified me by name, I need you to keep your faith in me even if I depart from the forum for a while! Give me a break, please. Respectfully yours, Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 11:05:45 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: To: Katie on vacation Subject: Re: the lighter side of ... Message: Dear is it Katie now?: But Katie, that was a loooooooong time ago, and I was under the spell of a certain teenage guru at the time, and I don't remember that well really, ANYthing that happened. Anyway, when I knew you, you did not go by the name of Katie, the only katie I knew... hey, guess what? The only Katie I remember married someone named Jim (was it Bernstein?)! Isn't that amazing! Wow, now the plot really thickens. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 12, 1998 at 20:39:40 (EST)
Poster: Katie aka Mischa Email: To: John K. Subject: Re: the lighter side of ... Message: Dear is it Katie now?: But Katie, that was a loooooooong time ago, and I was under the spell of a certain teenage guru at the time, and I don't remember that well really, ANYthing that happened. Anyway, when I knew you, you did not go by the name of Katie, the only katie I knew... hey, guess what? The only Katie I remember married someone named Jim (was it Bernstein?)! Isn't that amazing! Wow, now the plot really thickens. Dear John, That's twice in this forum that I've had to divulge my 'hippie name'. I may not forgive you for this, John. (At least I wasn't named StarShine, though!) I forget about the Katie that was married to Jim Bernstein. (Perhaps she's the Katie that Robin is looking for?). But anyway, I am married, but unfortunately, NOT to a nice Jewish guy (although I did try but all their mothers thought I was a shiksa and too blond to boot). Weren't there several guys named John in the DC community, by the way??? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |