Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum II Archive # 7 | |
From: Feb 20, 1998 |
To: Feb 28, 1998 |
Page: 4 Of: 5 |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 07:22:13 (EST)
Poster: Anon Email: To: Everyone Subject: Trust Yourself Not Message: Premies and Maharaji often say something to the tune of: " Trust yourself with this knowledge!" The contextual implication being that one should at least trust oneself (ones own experience) even if one can't muster so much trust in Maharaji. I was rather perplexed the first time I heard Maharaji take this line and remain so still. I would have thought that it goes without saying that most sentient beings do indeed tend to naturally trust themselves in whatever experiences they encounter unless they have taken leave of their senses, so it seems a little odd to emphasise the point. Also, I have spent many years effectively being told the opposite by Maharaji ie: Don't trust your own judgement or experiences even of knowledge but always take the the lead from Maharaji. Don't even leave room for any doubt in your mind. One example of this strange ambiguity would be in the teaching of Technik No. 1 Maharaji and instructors sometimes would say that the inner light some premies claimed to see was just "the Mind's light" , the implication being that, the student (who is too inexperienced to distinguish reality for himself) should just go through whatever motions the Master instucted without trusting their actual experiences. (I believe that most old timer practising premies have now settled into their own personal favorite variants on the theme that they were once taught despite all the constant changes) All the premies I know, including me, in reality just do their own thing. Maharaji's puzzling and unneccessary reassurance that I should trust myself seems to be only there as some sort of false promise that I may indeed be allowed to continue to think for myself when in fact I am being lulled and lured into the best position where my brain may be, the more easily, and permanently removed. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 08:22:45 (EST)
Poster: ex-mug Email: To: Anon Subject: Re: Trust Yourself Not Message: Premies and Maharaji often say something to the tune of: ' Trust yourself with this knowledge!' The contextual implication being that one should at least trust oneself (ones own experience) even if one can't muster so much trust in Maharaji. I was rather perplexed the first time I heard Maharaji take this line and remain so still. I would have thought that it goes without saying that most sentient beings do indeed tend to naturally trust themselves in whatever experiences they encounter unless they have taken leave of their senses, so it seems a little odd to emphasise the point. Also, I have spent many years effectively being told the opposite by Maharaji ie: Don't trust your own judgement or experiences even of knowledge but always take the the lead from Maharaji. Don't even leave room for any doubt in your mind. One example of this strange ambiguity would be in the teaching of Technik No. 1 Maharaji and instructors sometimes would say that the inner light some premies claimed to see was just 'the Mind's light' , the implication being that, the student (who is too inexperienced to distinguish reality for himself) should just go through whatever motions the Master instucted without trusting their actual experiences. (I believe that most old timer practising premies have now settled into their own personal favorite variants on the theme that they were once taught despite all the constant changes) All the premies I know, including me, in reality just do their own thing. Maharaji's puzzling and unneccessary reassurance that I should trust myself seems to be only there as some sort of false promise that I may indeed be allowed to continue to think for myself when in fact I am being lulled and lured into the best position where my brain may be, the more easily, and permanently removed. Hi Anon Maharaj ji really said that the inner light some premies claimed to see was just 'the mind's light'? I thought that the light technique was there to enable premies to see the inner light. Is GM saying that there is another light(divine) or is he saying that there is no real light at all? Please, I'm all ears. all the best ex-mug Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 08:26:36 (EST)
Poster: ex-mug Email: To: Anon Subject: Re: Trust Yourself Not Message: Premies and Maharaji often say something to the tune of: ' Trust yourself with this knowledge!' The contextual implication being that one should at least trust oneself (ones own experience) even if one can't muster so much trust in Maharaji. I was rather perplexed the first time I heard Maharaji take this line and remain so still. I would have thought that it goes without saying that most sentient beings do indeed tend to naturally trust themselves in whatever experiences they encounter unless they have taken leave of their senses, so it seems a little odd to emphasise the point. Also, I have spent many years effectively being told the opposite by Maharaji ie: Don't trust your own judgement or experiences even of knowledge but always take the the lead from Maharaji. Don't even leave room for any doubt in your mind. One example of this strange ambiguity would be in the teaching of Technik No. 1 Maharaji and instructors sometimes would say that the inner light some premies claimed to see was just 'the Mind's light' , the implication being that, the student (who is too inexperienced to distinguish reality for himself) should just go through whatever motions the Master instucted without trusting their actual experiences. (I believe that most old timer practising premies have now settled into their own personal favorite variants on the theme that they were once taught despite all the constant changes) All the premies I know, including me, in reality just do their own thing. Maharaji's puzzling and unneccessary reassurance that I should trust myself seems to be only there as some sort of false promise that I may indeed be allowed to continue to think for myself when in fact I am being lulled and lured into the best position where my brain may be, the more easily, and permanently removed. Hi Anon Maharaj ji really said that the inner light some premies claimed to see was just 'the mind's light'? I thought that the light technique was there to enable premies to see the inner light. Is GM saying that there is another light(divine) or is he saying that there is no real light at all? Please, I'm all ears. all the best ex-mug ps Actually, in my experience, 99% of the premies I ever met at one time claimed to have seen an inner light, not just 'some' premies. Where they all seeing the mind's light then? ex-mug Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 09:34:26 (EST)
Poster: You are fools and Email: bb To: Anon Subject: idiots. Trust me only. (Re: Trust Yourself Not) Message: Instructor Ira Woods was groveling at maharaji's feet thanking him for letting him see light. And maharaji said 'thats not the light thats the light of mind.' He also said at an instructor conference that 'you guys are scratching at a 900 foot wall of steel and you haven't even scratched the surface yet.' 'Only maharji can carry you across'. He never was a believer in trust yourself. You were to never trust yourself. That trust yourself bull is all recent. Its part of the new insidious approach. I know you know that. Ira was flattened. maharaji has really beat up on him over the years. maharaji slammed Ira in the mid eighties and Ira told me it took him 1 year to recover. Too bad he 'recovered'. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 14:02:24 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: You are fools and Subject: Re: idiots. Trust me only. (Re: Trust Yourself Not) Message: Just out of curiosity. How did Maharaji "slam" Ira, and why did it affect him so much? Did he talk to you about it? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 14:15:44 (EST)
Poster: divine Email: bb To: JW Subject: slip-ups (Re: Trust Yourself Not) Message: You've got an e-mail coming via katie. It was the ny event I mentioned in some other post. The roast at the ny hotel. I have that on tape. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 16:18:01 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: Anon Subject: Re: Trust Yourself Not Message: >I would have thought that it goes without saying that most sentient beings do indeed tend to naturally trust themselves in whatever experiences they encounter unless they have taken leave of their senses, so it seems a little odd to emphasise the point. Yes Anon, It is obvious that people do trust the inner love and wonder of life. If Mr. Starr (and I don't mean Ringo) can just solve the Whitewater case then true harmony will manifest in the inner city, boardrooms and sitcoms of this world. Do be careful now... don't forget to wash your hanky and here's $5 for a small box of chocolates or a six pack for the hockey game. Robots Rule Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 18:51:28 (EST)
Poster: Anon Email: To: ex-mug and bb Subject: to ex-mug and bb (Re: Trust Yourself Not) Message: Is GM saying that there is another light(divine) or is he saying that there is no real light at all? Please, I'm all ears. all the best ex-mug Hallo ex-mug, I love your name BTW. It would seem brother Burke (bb) has answered your question and, to some extent mine. He just refreshed my memory on where I heard this story.Thanks bb. It must have been from Ira. Ex-mug, my experience of inner light could certainly be described as 'divine'. I love to see inner light. I don't really understand what M was talking about to Ira. From the context it seems he was making a point about surrender. I don't know. There is another interpretation, but I don't feel that this was Maharaji's point. I have some experience of a very brilliant inner light which far outshines the "patterns" that one sees when rubbing ones eyes (or intoxicated) and which engulfs one completely and gives one a feeling of sublime peace. Thus there could theoretically be different types of inner light, one a display of neurological origin and another which is of a more spiritual nature and possibly perceived by a 'spiritual eye'. I am not sure and it doesn't bother me. I saw this bright, bright light before I received Knowledge or had even heard of Maharaji. To some extent it was my having had this experience that made my ears prick up when I first heard Maharaji talk about Divine Light. The purpose of my post was really to point out the ambiguity of being told to trust oneself and the next minute to trust the master above all. It is possible , I suppose, to trust both as long as the Master doesn't stretch your trust to breaking point..which was sort of my experience I'm afraid. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 20:35:20 (EST)
Poster: Anon Email: To: CD Subject: Re: Trust Yourself Not Message: I wrote: I would have thought that it goes without saying that most sentient beings do indeed tend to naturally trust themselves in whatever experiences they encounter unless they have taken leave of their senses, so it seems a little odd to emphasise the point. You wrote back (using a little sarcasm as I take it): Yes Anon, It is obvious that people do trust the inner love and wonder of life. If Mr. Starr (and I don't mean Ringo) can just solve the Whitewater case then true harmony will manifest in the inner city, boardrooms and sitcoms of this world. CD, do you think true harmony could ever manifest in the inner city, boardrooms and sitcoms of this world or for that matter in the everyday life of the perfect master (whose wife is apparently not in such perfect harmony with this other lady we here so much about) Isn't there already a kind of harmony in that chaos too? You will agree I suppose that the words "trusting oneself" don't inthemselves immediately infer the sole meaning "trusting oneself in the particular matter of the inner love and wonder of life" The words in question would however in most cases surely immediately infer the meaning "trusting oneself in the matter of making a sensible judgement over a(as yet unstated) particular matter". In the context of Maharaji it is arguable that he means the former. However I personally suppose Maharaji means "trust yourself in the matter of letting go to me and my Knowledge" and I don't know why he has to say simply "trust yourself" which leaves it open to the interpretations given by such as A Premie(s) who repeat the phrase in parrot fashion, as if (because it was uttered by Maharaji) it were now a combination of words that had gained such a mysterious and immutable impact of it's own that no further explanation could possibly be offered. It is a matter of common decency to explain oneself as clearly as possible at all times. It is a disease of Maharaji and premies to use language in a careless and boastful sounding way which, ignoring the sensitivities of the listener, can intimidate, confuse and certainly mesmerise the innocent young, or naive. It's called bluster in my book. A tactic used mostly by bullies to control others and for their own vainglory. Language is vital to life. I see my children totally preoccupied as toddlers in discovering language. It is very beautiful to watch. It is essential not to keep moving the goal posts for them by giving them ambiguities to struggle with. All languages have similar structures for good reason. They are there to make things as clear and straightforward as possible for the survival of the species and the happiness of the individual. It is of no surprise therefore that so-called spiritual masters blatantly use language as their main tool in their bid to gather followers. Bragging about knowledge of the realm of the mystical (and unprovable) has been the easiest way for generations of supposed teachers and mystics to remain employed, I think you'll find. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 21:49:34 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Anon Subject: Re: Trust Yourself Not Message: Anon: Regarding: Language is vital to life. I see my children totally preoccupied as toddlers in discovering language. It is very beautiful to watch. It is essential not to keep moving the goal posts for them by giving them ambiguities to struggle with. All languages have similar structures for good reason. They are there to make things as clear and straightforward as possible for the survival of the species and the happiness of the individual. I agree, except that certain very skilled deconstructionists, like Derrida, are able to create a convincing case that language is fundamentally ambiguous at it's root. In fact, that is the point. Of course, in order to make such a case you have to know the meanings and derivation of words in extraordinary detail. He does not attempt to use language deceptively (at least not in the sense you mean) but to reveal the possibly deceptive and scarring use of language as well as the fundamental mystery that lies at its core. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 22:03:15 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: Scott T. Subject: Re: Trust Yourself Not Message: Thanks for mentioning the fundamental ambiguity of language that most people overlook. No wonder it is so hard to make a translation engine. AI books are full of details on the difficulties of pinning down ideas. There is also still a problem understanding the edge of the universe. CD Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 22:17:31 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: CD Subject: Edge of the Universe, WAY off topic (Re: Trust Yourself Not) Message: CD, et al: Regarding: There is also still a problem understanding the edge of the universe. Everyone who has read Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy knows that there is a restaurant beyond the edge of the universe where you can sit and watch the whole thing collapse. There is also a cow that comes to your table, attempting to sell you delicious parts of herself. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 22:18:43 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: CD Subject: Re: Trust Yourself Not Message: Thanks for mentioning the fundamental ambiguity of language that most people overlook. No wonder it is so hard to make a translation engine. AI books are full of details on the difficulties of pinning down ideas. There is also still a problem understanding the edge of the universe. CD CD, When I first read Anon's post and saw his mention of the rudeness of intentional vagueness, I really thought he was talking about you. A moment later I understood he was talking about Maharaji. Now, how was I so enlightened? Simple. Anon wrote enough to really make himself clear. Get it? See, you just don't say enough, Chris. The terrible ambiguities and fuzzy edges inherent in language can often be rectified with a little explanation. This is such a basic aspect of life. Chris, I think you're afraid to really talk freely. The only time I ever saw you open up a bit was recently when you got a little pissed off, wiped that smarmy frozen smile off your face and tried to explain yourself. What a relief it was to hear you actually say something instead of sounding like a 70s fortune cookie. Best of luck, Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 23:56:13 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: Scott T. Subject: Re: Edge of the Universe, WAY off topic (Re: Trust Yourself Not) Message: CD, et al: Regarding: There is also still a problem understanding the edge of the universe. Everyone who has read Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy knows that there is a restaurant beyond the edge of the universe where you can sit and watch the whole thing collapse. There is also a cow that comes to your table, attempting to sell you delicious parts of herself. -Scott We do know that Douglas said there is such a restaurant but I still don't know how he survived the journey. Do you know that even Hawking still can't convince everybody on what is exactly happening in the cosmos? Now, Jim says that just a little extra explanation will clear up the matter in no time. I hope he's right or its back to the pizza. Regards, CD Robots know Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 00:40:49 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: CD Subject: Re: Edge of the Universe, a little less off-topic (Re: Trust Yourself Not) Message: CD: Regarding: Do you know that even Hawking still can't convince everybody on what is exactly happening in the cosmos? ...and do you know from whom S. Hawking borrowed the idea of Synergetics as an explanation of what's going on? R.B.F. (R. Buckminster Fuller) has a very succinct definition of Universe: "A finite non-unitarily conceptual, non-simultaneous, partially overlapping, event-scenario." (Well, perhaps it's not so succinct. My bias may be showing through.) While it may be somewhat difficult (though not impossible) to explain exactly what this is, what it is clearly not is a thing. The important point is that it is "non-unitarily conceptual." The concept "all the words in use in all languages" is a finite number at any given time but no single person will be able to grasp the totality of it. This does not mean that it is either infinite or vague, it's just not simple. As for Derrida... what he does may in fact be a kind of trick. My mind is not made up about this. I'm still open. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 01:30:03 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Scott T. Subject: Re: Edge of the Universe, a little less off-topic (Re: Trust Yourself Not) Message: Einstein said that if you had a powerful enough telescope, you would see the back of your own head. An ever expanding universe that is unmeasurable, because by the time we've measured it, it's already got much bigger. A finite expeanding bubble of space and time which appears to have an end either through entropy or self collapse. And yet we only see it through our limited dimentional perspective. Standing in the cafe outside of it, we would be in another dimension and time and space would be like a child's picture. Limited in perspective. Our limited knowledge of reality can only see time and space. They are our only measurements for a reality beyond such notions. There may be an infinite number of universes, each within its own little dimension and yet perhaps one day we'll stand aside from it all and understand its meaning. And in the resterant at the edge of the universe we'll have a drink with God and discuss how to improve on things. Someone said that God is learning all the time and as one day we may approach his godliness, by then He will have grown so much more and will still be infinitely greater than us. I'll see you at the cafe at the edge of everything. But we're already there I see... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 01:54:54 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: Scott T. Subject: Re: Edge of the Universe, a little less off-topic (Re: Trust Yourself Not) Message: CD: Regarding: Do you know that even Hawking still can't convince everybody on what is exactly happening in the cosmos? ...and do you know from whom S. Hawking borrowed the idea of Synergetics as an explanation of what's going on? R.B.F. (R. Buckminster Fuller) has a very succinct definition of Universe: 'A finite non-unitarily conceptual, non-simultaneous, partially overlapping, event-scenario.' (Well, perhaps it's not so succinct. My bias may be showing through.) While it may be somewhat difficult (though not impossible) to explain exactly what this is, what it is clearly not is a thing. The important point is that it is 'non-unitarily conceptual.' The concept 'all the words in use in all languages' is a finite number at any given time but no single person will be able to grasp the totality of it. This does not mean that it is either infinite or vague, it's just not simple. As for Derrida... what he does may in fact be a kind of trick. My mind is not made up about this. I'm still open. -Scott I've got to admit that I think that Bucky Fuller was probably the real Satguru, and he never asked me for any money or to kiss his feet. I really enjoyed reading his books, even though I didn't always understand them. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 02:03:57 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com To: -------- Subject: Re: to ex-mug and bb (Re: Trust Yourself Not) Message: Ex-mug, my experience of inner light could certainly be described as 'divine'. I love to see inner light. I don't really understand what M was talking about to Ira. From the context it seems he was making a point about surrender. I don't know. There is another interpretation, but I don't feel that this was Maharaji's point. I have some experience of a very brilliant inner light which far outshines the 'patterns' that one sees when rubbing ones eyes (or intoxicated) and which engulfs one completely and gives one a feeling of sublime peace. It's sensory deprivation and it's probably not dangerous or bad for you, unless you link it psychologically to dangerous habits and patterns (such as extreme social isolation). These doctors who denounce light technique probably never wanted to do light technique, and so were predisposed to find fault with it. Intriguing idea, though, to suggest it can create vision problems! I don't have that, and I'm almost 40 -- I have excellent vision, and just started wearing reading glasses this year (and I don't really need them; the eye doctor suggested most people with such a small visual defect wouldn't get glasses but I wanted to try them out; I'd waited all my life to find out what it's like not to see perfectly clearly at all distances, without optics, and I wasn't passing on an opportunity to wear glasses!) With all the hoogwash of being a cave man and neolithic and neanderthal and all that in our collective past, it would really be kind of surprising if there weren't quite a bit of wierd chit in the cultural catalog. At one time, it was necessary to appeal to absract godz just to get the weather understood and under some kind of supplicant's control -- if we sacrifice this lamb maybe our crops will grow. Someone somewhere must have been idle long enough to notice there are neurological phenomena associated with sense deprivation. The point of the light technique is obviously to keep the eyelids from fluttering once the alternate neurological waves start happening, not to stimulate the eyeballs or the brow! The point of the music technique is to deprive the sense of outside stimuli and heighten the auto-stimuli. My guess about nectar technique is that somebody accidentally discovered you can do this wierd thing with your tongue and you won't choke to death after all -- it's sustainable, even. Once that was known, (and I'm pretty sure it has no biological function on it's own, a side-effect of some other desireable quality of people's bodies) once it was known, it was only a matter of time (show me! I'll show you something in return!) that it was passed onto someone who could make more interesting use of it: to control other people through mysticsim and secret initiation. It is freaky -- nectar technique doesn't choke you to death! I was and am a perfectionist -- a dysfunctional approach to living, at best. M taught me (us?) to seek perfection, at least in context of the inner experience of meditation on K. When I later encountered the negative view of perfectionism; the view of perfectionism as a dysfunction, I was most resistive to the idea that they were talking about the same kind of use of the word "perfect". It was mostly semantics, because after a while I realized the thing the people were trying to get at -- and correct, in themselves -- about perfectionistic thinking, was something that also plauged me, and wasn't good for me to continue to indulge. I don't think the practice of meditation (sitting, quiet etc) is the problem with perfectionism. I think it's a fine thing to sit and be quiet for a moment, and listen in. For four hours though? That's obsessed. Which is ok, but it is indulgent in an obsession, to do that for that amount of time. So if people want to say there was nothing revealed, to them I'd say "Nothing was revealed, you're right: something was disguised". Something cool and useful and simple -- like masturbation -- was dressed up in mischief, and presented; disguised as something it was not. HOLY NAME -- well, I think this one is like, if you and I were chatting over a couple of nice beverages, and we were getting pretty involved in the coversation, each of us in turn might just forget to pay attention to what we're drinking (because our eyes are open, we know nobody has poisoned the drink, so they're safe to sip at without really focusing on what's IN the cup.) At some point, I might defer most of my attention to the contents of my cup, and take a sip -- inhale, and sigh, in contentment: I just paid full attention to a pleasant beverage's tasting! I think that's the pleasure of Holy Name -- just paying attention, for a moment, to the simple pleasure of inspiration (literally, breathing in). And that's it. None of the foregoing diminishes one bit the true pleasure one experiences when one does something one likes doing. I question those who do a thing long after it's lost it's appeal, for that day. My mother asked me when I was a teenage aspirant "Yeah, but isn't peace BORING?" Hehe. Yeah, it kinda is, Mom. Sometimes it's just what the doctor ordered, but there's a lack of excitement; after a while, I've had enough peace and now I want some chocolate! :) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 02:14:18 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com To: -------- (2nd Draft) Subject: Re: to ex-mug and bb (Re: Trust Yourself Not) Message: This one is to fix the formatting; content is the same. -AOA Ex-mug, my experience of inner light could certainly be described as 'divine'. I love to see inner light. I don't really understand what M was talking about to Ira. From the context it seems he was making a point about surrender. I don't know. There is another interpretation, but I don't feel that this was Maharaji's point. I have some experience of a very brilliant inner light which far outshines the 'patterns' that one sees when rubbing ones eyes (or intoxicated) and which engulfs one completely and gives one a feeling of sublime peace. It's sensory deprivation and it's probably not dangerous or bad for you, unless you link it psychologically to dangerous habits and patterns (such as extreme social isolation). These doctors who denounce light technique probably never wanted to do light technique, and so were predisposed to find fault with it. Intriguing idea, though, to suggest it can create vision problems! I don't have that, and I'm almost 40 -- I have excellent vision, and just started wearing reading glasses this year (and I don't really need them; the eye doctor suggested most people with such a small visual defect wouldn't get glasses but I wanted to try them out; I'd waited all my life to find out what it's like not to see perfectly clearly at all distances, without optics, and I wasn't passing on an opportunity to wear glasses!) With all the hoogwash of being a cave man and neolithic and neanderthal and all that in our collective past, it would really be kind of surprising if there weren't quite a bit of wierd chit in the cultural catalog. At one time, it was necessary to appeal to absract godz just to get the weather understood and under some kind of supplicant's control -- if we sacrifice this lamb maybe our crops will grow. Someone somewhere must have been idle long enough to notice there are neurological phenomena associated with sense deprivation. The point of the light technique is obviously to keep the eyelids from fluttering once the alternate neurological waves start happening, not to stimulate the eyeballs or the brow! The point of the music technique is to deprive the sense of outside stimuli and heighten the auto-stimuli. My guess about nectar technique is that somebody accidentally discovered you can do this wierd thing with your tongue and you won't choke to death after all -- it's sustainable, even. Once that was known, (and I'm pretty sure it has no biological function on it's own, a side-effect of some other desireable quality of people's bodies) once it was known, it was only a matter of time (show me! I'll show you something in return!) that it was passed onto someone who could make more interesting use of it: to control other people through mysticsim and secret initiation. It is freaky -- nectar technique doesn't choke you to death! I was and am a perfectionist -- a dysfunctional approach to living, at best. M taught me (us?) to seek perfection, at least in context of the inner experience of meditation on K. When I later encountered the negative view of perfectionism; the view of perfectionism as a dysfunction, I was most resistive to the idea that they were talking about the same kind of use of the word "perfect". It was mostly semantics, because after a while I realized the thing the people were trying to get at -- and correct, in themselves -- about perfectionistic thinking, was something that also plauged me, and wasn't good for me to continue to indulge. I don't think the practice of meditation (sitting, quiet etc) is the problem with perfectionism. I think it's a fine thing to sit and be quiet for a moment, and listen in. For four hours though? That's obsessed. Which is ok, but it is indulgent in an obsession, to do that for that amount of time. So if people want to say there was nothing revealed, to them I'd say "nothing was revealed, you're right: something was disguised". Something cool and useful and simple, -- like masturbation -- was dressed up in mischief, and presented; disguised as something it was not. HOLY NAME -- well, I think this one is like, if you and I were chatting over a couple of nice beverages, and we were getting pretty involved in the coversation, each of us in turn might just forget to pay attention to what we're drinking (because our eyes are open, we know nobody has poisoned the drink, so they're safe to sip at without really focusing on what's IN the cup.) At some point, I might defer most of my attention to the contents of my cup, and take a sip -- inhale, and sigh, in contentment: I just paid full attention to a pleasant beverage's tasting! I think that's the pleasure of Holy Name -- just paying attention, for a moment, to the simple pleasure of inspiration (literally, breathing in). And that's it. None of the foregoing diminishes one bit the true pleasure one experiences when one does something one likes doing. I question those who do a thing long after it's lost it's appeal, for that day. My mother asked me when I was a teenage aspirant "Yeah, but isn't peace BORING?" Hehe. Yeah, it kinda is, Mom. Sometimes it's just what the doctor ordered, but there's a lack of excitement; after a while, I've had enough peace and now I want some chocolate! :) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 09:19:04 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: stalking@freewheeling.com To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: I seem to be a verb. (Re: Trust Yourself Not) Message: CD: Regarding: Do you know that even Hawking still can't convince everybody on what is exactly happening in the cosmos? ...and do you know from whom S. Hawking borrowed the idea of Synergetics as an explanation of what's going on? R.B.F. (R. Buckminster Fuller) has a very succinct definition of Universe: 'A finite non-unitarily conceptual, non-simultaneous, partially overlapping, event-scenario.' (Well, perhaps it's not so succinct. My bias may be showing through.) While it may be somewhat difficult (though not impossible) to explain exactly what this is, what it is clearly not is a thing. The important point is that it is 'non-unitarily conceptual.' The concept 'all the words in use in all languages' is a finite number at any given time but no single person will be able to grasp the totality of it. This does not mean that it is either infinite or vague, it's just not simple. As for Derrida... what he does may in fact be a kind of trick. My mind is not made up about this. I'm still open. -Scott I've got to admit that I think that Bucky Fuller was probably the real Satguru, and he never asked me for any money or to kiss his feet. I really enjoyed reading his books, even though I didn't always understand them. MTP: Bucky's biographer, E.J. Applewhite, (no relation to the Heavens Goat guy) said that R.B.F. often over-indulged in tea. This caused him to engage in some relatively incomprehensible (but nonetheless fun) flights of fancy. Twenty page sentences, etc. He also wrote a book, I Seem To Be A Verb, that is read from beginning and end toward the middle. In that book, beneath a picture of a technical drawing he writes: "Section of drawings for patent 3,410,638 granted to James Robert Longworthy, of Clinton, NJ, for eyeglasses providing the wearer with a rear view. Wearer must glance up at an angle of 35 degrees to see image, which passes around a 90 degree angle where the frame is joined in front and is then reflected in a prism. Inventor believes glasses will serve as an early-warning device to fight crime in the streets." I don't know if it would impact the crime rate, but it would sure be fun. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 18:53:02 (EST)
Poster: Student Email: To: And On Anand Ji Subject: Re: to ex-mug and bb (Re: Trust Yourself Not) Message: Ex-mug, my experience of inner light could certainly be described as 'divine'. I love to see inner light. I don't really understand what M was talking about to Ira. From the context it seems he was making a point about surrender. I don't know. There is another interpretation, but I don't feel that this was Maharaji's point. I have some experience of a very brilliant inner light which far outshines the 'patterns' that one sees when rubbing ones eyes (or intoxicated) and which engulfs one completely and gives one a feeling of sublime peace. It's sensory deprivation and it's probably not dangerous or bad for you, unless you link it psychologically to dangerous habits and patterns (such as extreme social isolation). These doctors who denounce light technique probably never wanted to do light technique, and so were predisposed to find fault with it. Intriguing idea, though, to suggest it can create vision problems! I don't have that, and I'm almost 40 -- I have excellent vision, and just started wearing reading glasses this year (and I don't really need them; the eye doctor suggested most people with such a small visual defect wouldn't get glasses but I wanted to try them out; I'd waited all my life to find out what it's like not to see perfectly clearly at all distances, without optics, and I wasn't passing on an opportunity to wear glasses!) With all the hoogwash of being a cave man and neolithic and neanderthal and all that in our collective past, it would really be kind of surprising if there weren't quite a bit of wierd chit in the cultural catalog. At one time, it was necessary to appeal to absract godz just to get the weather understood and under some kind of supplicant's control -- if we sacrifice this lamb maybe our crops will grow. Someone somewhere must have been idle long enough to notice there are neurological phenomena associated with sense deprivation. The point of the light technique is obviously to keep the eyelids from fluttering once the alternate neurological waves start happening, not to stimulate the eyeballs or the brow! The point of the music technique is to deprive the sense of outside stimuli and heighten the auto-stimuli. My guess about nectar technique is that somebody accidentally discovered you can do this wierd thing with your tongue and you won't choke to death after all -- it's sustainable, even. Once that was known, (and I'm pretty sure it has no biological function on it's own, a side-effect of some other desireable quality of people's bodies) once it was known, it was only a matter of time (show me! I'll show you something in return!) that it was passed onto someone who could make more interesting use of it: to control other people through mysticsim and secret initiation. It is freaky -- nectar technique doesn't choke you to death! I was and am a perfectionist -- a dysfunctional approach to living, at best. M taught me (us?) to seek perfection, at least in context of the inner experience of meditation on K. When I later encountered the negative view of perfectionism; the view of perfectionism as a dysfunction, I was most resistive to the idea that they were talking about the same kind of use of the word 'perfect'. It was mostly semantics, because after a while I realized the thing the people were trying to get at -- and correct, in themselves -- about perfectionistic thinking, was something that also plauged me, and wasn't good for me to continue to indulge. I don't think the practice of meditation (sitting, quiet etc) is the problem with perfectionism. I think it's a fine thing to sit and be quiet for a moment, and listen in. For four hours though? That's obsessed. Which is ok, but it is indulgent in an obsession, to do that for that amount of time. So if people want to say there was nothing revealed, to them I'd say 'Nothing was revealed, you're right: something was disguised'. Something cool and useful and simple -- like masturbation -- was dressed up in mischief, and presented; disguised as something it was not. HOLY NAME -- well, I think this one is like, if you and I were chatting over a couple of nice beverages, and we were getting pretty involved in the coversation, each of us in turn might just forget to pay attention to what we're drinking (because our eyes are open, we know nobody has poisoned the drink, so they're safe to sip at without really focusing on what's IN the cup.) At some point, I might defer most of my attention to the contents of my cup, and take a sip -- inhale, and sigh, in contentment: I just paid full attention to a pleasant beverage's tasting! I think that's the pleasure of Holy Name -- just paying attention, for a moment, to the simple pleasure of inspiration (literally, breathing in). And that's it. None of the foregoing diminishes one bit the true pleasure one experiences when one does something one likes doing. I question those who do a thing long after it's lost it's appeal, for that day. My mother asked me when I was a teenage aspirant 'Yeah, but isn't peace BORING?' Hehe. Yeah, it kinda is, Mom. Sometimes it's just what the doctor ordered, but there's a lack of excitement; after a while, I've had enough peace and now I want some chocolate! :) What do you mean by "Something cool and useful and simple - like masturbation - was dressed up in mischief...? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 22:44:59 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: -------- Subject: Re: to ex-mug and bb (Re: Trust Yourself Not) Message: What do you mean by 'Something cool and useful and simple - like masturbation - was dressed up in mischief...? Secret Initiation. The techniques were cloaked in mystery, hence: dressed up in mischief. They are cool (admirable), useful (they calm the self, for a while) and simple (they are uncomplicated) -- like masturbation (they aren't entirely obvious to one who's never tried them before; they're worth trying and are something you have to try for yourself to know why so many people like to do them). Masturbation is something you have to try in order to know if it is an appealing process or not, to you. I think it's an apt comparison, once you remove the puritan objection to the subject. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Feb 26, 1998 at 14:08:11 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Scott T. Subject: Upside down glasses (Re: Trust Yourself Not) Message: Scientists have done experiments on people by getting them to wear special glasses which turn everything upside down. They have to wear the glasses 24 hours a day. After about a week of seeing the world upside down what happens is that the brain assimulates it completely and it doesn't appear upside down any more, but the right way up, as normal. It seems the brain can adjust to a change in perception and make it appear normal Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Feb 26, 1998 at 15:17:46 (EST)
Poster: Student Email: To: And On Anand Ji Subject: Re: to ex-mug and bb (Re: Trust Yourself Not) Message: What do you mean by 'Something cool and useful and simple - like masturbation - was dressed up in mischief...? Secret Initiation. The techniques were cloaked in mystery, hence: dressed up in mischief. They are cool (admirable), useful (they calm the self, for a while) and simple (they are uncomplicated) -- like masturbation (they aren't entirely obvious to one who's never tried them before; they're worth trying and are something you have to try for yourself to know why so many people like to do them). Masturbation is something you have to try in order to know if it is an appealing process or not, to you. I think it's an apt comparison, once you remove the puritan objection to the subject. One is physical, the other spiritual. Both can be called self-fulfillment. Of course there's the question of the benefits or consequences of each. This is a very individual, even personal question. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 04:31:07 (EST)
Poster: ex-mug Email: To: Everyone Subject: M, the greatest fakir Message: Fakir as in faker, that is. ex-mug Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 06:29:49 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: To: -------- Subject: Website Glossary Comments (Re: M, the greatest fakir) Message: Hi, it's been a while (and I'm not on Linux, either!) Webmaster Ji - Some notes on your excellent glossary page follow. (http://www.ex-premie.org/pages/glossary.htm) Please accept them as offered thoughts only; I don't present them as the last word on the terms they address, but only as additional thought-provoking materials. ---- guru - gu=light ru=darkness (or the other way around?) "revealer of light, dispeller of darkness." A (hindi?) word meaning "teacher." satguru - sat=true guru (see guru) "true revealer of light, dispeller of darkness) (as though "guru" isn't as authorative a title! maharaj - maha (great) + raj (king) "great king" ji - an honorific Guru Maharaj Ji - revealer of light, dispeller of darkness; great king. Name Prem Pal Singh Rawat uses to denote his deceased father, and, presumably, he also refers to himself using the exact same term. It is difficult to determine in some instances if he is strongly meaning his father, himself, or both: the generic "Maharaji" who is ever-present. puja - worship guru puja - guru worship holy breath - the aspirant was supposed to ask for holy breath only once; either before receiving knowledge (e.g. first darshan) or after receiving knowledge (e.g. first darshan after receiving K) [I don't remember which one it was, though I think it was after receiving K; I think that's how it went with me. I was an asp. and had several darshans before receiving K, because I was under age]. The person receiving HB isn't supposed to repeat the gesture ever again -- it's a one-shot deal. mahatma - maha (great) + atman (soul) "great soul" jiva - the individual soul December 10, 1957, not 1959. Prem Pal Singh Rawat (I believe that's the correct way to present his full legal name) was born in Hardwar, India, I believe. He is sometimes known (titularly) as Sant Ji (the same way the other Ji's have titles such as Mata, Durga, Bhole, Bal Bhagwan, and Hans.) e.g. Shri Sant Ji Maharaj; Shri Hans Ji Maharaj. Sant = saint. balyogeshwar -- sometimes shortened affectionately to "balyog"; it means "little lord of all the yogis". bhole shri satgurudev maharaj ki jai! --- I don't know what "bhole" means. shri -- an honorific (perhaps a title similar to "my lord" for the brittish?) prasad - the food Maharaji's taken a bite out of prachar - spread the knowledge prasad/prachar -- I don't know the correct anglicized spellings for either term, though 'prasad' seems correct. There's a definite "ch" sound in 'prachar' as Maharaji usually pronounces it. ghee -- a daub of clarified (boiled?) butter that acts as a ceremonial candle on an Arti tray (which is usually silver, like a silver tea tray). You light the ghee and after Arti is sung, the person bearing the Arti tray would offer you the burning flame ghee and you'd run both hands over the tips of the flames to pick up some blessing, and then apply both hands' fingertips to your forehead (where a tilak would be if you wore one). tilak -- a little painted spot on the brow, signifying (maybe?) the third eye. I don't think tilaks were part of premie culture per se, but their presence was closely-enough linked to Maharaji that the term became known to me. I think M used the word 'tilak' a few times in his satsangs, over the years. raja ji -- raja means king service -- constantly spoken of in context of "satsang, service and meditation" by Maharaji in the mid/late 70's. Satsang in those days was a gathering of the premies in one's local community. premlata - vine of love (wadi, wad, wadi sue) navlata - new vine (raja ji's first daughter, "navvi" as Claudia called her) hanti - Maharji's early nickname for Hans Pal Singh Rawat, Maharaji's oldest son. Hanti is younger than Wadi (Premlata). Hanti would dance in a tiny krisha crown and coat onstage sometimes! I think Hansi and Hanti were used interchageably. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 08:11:41 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: And On Anand Ji Subject: Re: Website Glossary Comments (Re: M, the greatest fakir) Message: Thanks for your contributions. For the most part, I wanted a glossary for those people who know nothing about the cult, but are seeking information because they know someone who is getting involved or is already caught up in it. So it should explain terms dropped so freely here in the forum and in Journeys entries, etc. But there's some goodies in your post :) I have some other corrections to make to the glossary that were sent in previously concerning people's names and dates of birth. The MJ birthdate is a typo. I know he's 40, going on 12. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 09:39:36 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: and_on_anand@yahoo.com To: -------- Subject: Re: Website Glossary Comments (Re: M, the greatest fakir) Message: Thanks for your contributions. For the most part, I wanted a glossary for those people who know nothing about the cult, but are seeking information because they know someone who is getting involved or is already caught up in it. So it should explain terms dropped so freely here in the forum and in Journeys entries, etc. But there's some goodies in your post :) I have some other corrections to make to the glossary that were sent in previously concerning people's names and dates of birth. The MJ birthdate is a typo. I know he's 40, going on 12. Tue Feb 24 09:29:15 EST 1998 I think the lexicon is quite important to understanding what happened to us. I don't have much to say about darshan (and thus little to contribute to most of your content pages on ex-premie.org) -- all my darshan experiences were (objectively) impersonal, in the darshan line and of course just being in attendance when M spoke is also darshan (darshan = "in the presence of the master" to me; there wasn't two words, one for doing pranam at point-blank range and one for being 300 feet away; both were darshan!) I never did service at the residence. There's another term for your glossary: "the residence" always meant the primary location where M and his family lived. I guess it also applied if there were a special house in a foreign city reserved for M? -- that was also called "the residence" and you could go and do service at the residence. AMP - Active Membership Program. In 1977, there were actually little coupon books, like the Catholic Church uses, to get people to donate to DLM regularly. If I was a better record-keeper, I could probably produce a cancelled check or two! It was a ten-percent tithe that was encouraged for AMP. North American Sponsorship Program. I'm going to guess circa 1986. This was another fund drive program; it had a nice printed brochure. I'm pretty sure there was direct linkage with Elan Vital in the printed matter. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 09:01:32 (EST)
Poster: op Email: To: And On Anand Ji Subject: Re: just for clarification (Re: M, the greatest fakir) Message: bole = boliye, hindi imperative verb from bholna, which means to speak (note no h after the b). So the whole phrase 'boliye shri satguru..' is a call to others to shout the praise of Maharaji. If you're saying it alone, you would drop the boliye and just say: shri satgurudev maharaji ki jai. bhole (as in Bhole Ji, M's brother) means innocent, simple (and foolish, btw) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 09:11:07 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: op Subject: Re: just for clarification (Re: M, the greatest fakir) Message: What's the 'ki jai' part mean? I've only shouted it a million times, so I guess I outa have found that out first... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 09:15:08 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: Brian Subject: Re: just for clarification (Re: M, the greatest fakir) Message: What's the 'ki jai' part mean? I've only shouted it a million times, so I guess I outa have found that out first... It means "party on, Garth" in Hindi. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 01:40:41 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: joger02@aol.com To: Everyone Subject: Maharaji Infomercial Videos Message: Okay, okay, you twisted my arm. Last Friday, I got the idea that because Maharaji was so into selling those expensive videos of his, he might use those video facilities to his advantage to explain away some of the more embarrassing stuff from his past. I mean, since they air brushed the zits off his face for AIID, why not just carry that a little further and doctor-up some video footage (no pun intended) editing out the more embarrassing parts, including editing out or explaining-away us exs. Anyway, I came up with some video titles that he might use in peddling the videos to PBS and the CBC to improve his image among the general public. Katie came up with some more. If anyone has any more suggestions, please add to the list. "We Are Not A Cult, Really We Aren't" "That Lord Of The Universe Thing: WHAT Was I THINKING?" "I Was Really Young At The Time, And the Cognac Made Me Do It" "Maharaji: His Frugal, Spartan, Very Spiritual Lifestyle" "The Ashram Experiment: How It Saved So Many Lives" "I Never Said I Was God, Those Stupid Premies Did" "I Was Only Doing Important Research: How Many Rolls Royces Can You Fit In Front Of One Malibu Mansion" "Maharaji's Guide To Answering Correspondence From Former Devotees Who Ask Troubling Questions: Just Ignore It!" "The Summer Of '76: Those Spaced-Out Premies" "I Was Not Worshipped, I Never Encouraged It, And Besides, I Don't Do It Anymore" "Kissing My Feet: How The Medicinal Benefits Of My Toes Cured Cancer In Thousands" "PAM: The Evil Group That Forced Me To Be Worshipped And To Live Like A King Against My Will" "Surrender" Was Just My Little Way Of Saying Don%2 Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 01:52:44 (EST)
Poster: JW (Continued) Email: To: JW Subject: Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos Message: So, the previous posting cut off the list. It continues: "Lighten Up: That All-Knowing, All-Powerful And 100% Dedication Stuff Was Just A JOKE!" "It Was All My Mother's Fault" (Thanks, Katie) "Why Gold Bathroom Fixtures, Servants, A Luxury Yacht and Jet, Residences Around The World, And Dozens Of Luxury Cars Are Necessary For My Mission Of Bringing Truth To A World So Lost In Materialism" "How To Blather Boring, Repetitive Speech And Still Soung Like You're Profound In 10 Easy Lessons" "101 Uses For Crowns, Krishna Costumes And Pearl Jewelry" "Why I Need A Private, Luxury Jet: The Horrible Ordeals Of Flying First Class" "Why I Need ANOTHER, Private, Luxury Jet: The Horrible Ordeals of Flying In My Former Luxury Jet" (thanks, Katie) AND THESE ARE ESPECIALLY FOR EX-PREMIES "Those Ex-Premies: Why Don't They Just Get On With Their Lives? They're All Going To Hell Anyway!'" (Thanks, Katie) "Well Okay If You Don't Like Maharaji And Feel Ripped Off: Just Don't Talk About It!" Any other suggestions? M needs all the help he can get! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 10:38:19 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: JW (Continued) Subject: Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos Message: How about: 'Who is Guru Maharaj Ji? : the Forbidden Question' 'Shattered Like Glass: a Retrospective of the First Western Initiators.' 'May I come in now, Mahatma Ji? : A Discrete Guide to Dating Young Premies' (in Hindi) 'Eeny, Meeny, Miney Moe : How to Identify the Real Perfect Master' 'Did I Say That? : Outrageous Claims from the House of Rawat (Volume 1 - The Early Years [1966 to 1973])' 'Good Mind and Bad Mind : A 70's Field Guide' 'I'm Only as Hypocritical as I Say I Am' - a Policy Statement and Working Principle from the Office Of Guru Maharaj Ji (now dba 'Maharaji') 'People Who Have Betrayed Me' (Maharaji as told to Monica Lewis) 'Words Only Mean Something if You Let Them : A Guide to Making Language Work for You and not the Other Way Around' 'MISUNDERSTANDING : The Tragic Story of the Lost Premies of the Late Twentieth Century' 'Close Enough : A Premie Guide to Fake Reasoning [Proven Effective in All Situations But Actual Discussion]' 'No Thanks! : A Premie Guide to Avoiding Discussion' 'Timeless Knowledge : New, Completely Revised 1998 Edition' 'I Almost Missed the Millenium' A frank and shocking account of Maharaji's ongoing battle with alcoholism 'BULLSHIT! : A Faster and Easier Way to Detect Mr. Mind Around the House, at the Office and In the Bedroom' 'LILA!' A Game of Fun and Discovery that let's you learn how much rationalization you can muster with a straight face. 'No Concepts : Rules, Principles and Theories of the Perfect Master' (a looseleaf publication, updated quarterly) 'The Forbidden Texts : Old Maharaji Publications from the 1970s' 'Taking the Next Step : Divine United Organization [DUO] in the Twenty-First Century' 'How I Saved the World from Nuclear War (No, Really)' 'Dance, Dance, Dance : A non-stop video of some of Maharaji's best, funniest and most loving dance moves from the 70s through 90s' (Parental Discretion) 'Am I Boring You? : Long Passages of Banalities (Airport problems, Household trivia, Dressing arrangements, etc.) from the satsang of the Lord of the Universe' 'I was Boring You, Wasn't I? : A Message from Maharaji to All Former Premies' Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 10:41:32 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex (Wanted) Email: To: JW Subject: Some history (Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos) Message: Whilst my PC was attempting to crash our poor Forum, Brian was having nightmares, and I was busy digging materials out of my messy bedrooms closet. I still own piles of audio cassettes, videos and magazines where I found all these dates. Hope it’s going to be helpful (JW?). I started with 70s and 80s. I have a huge list for the 90s, I’ll try to make something clear out of it. Some facts according to what’s printed on those materials, M’s production business was called Shri Hans Productions at DLM time (in the beginning). Then SHP disappeared, and materials were copyright DLM in 78 & 79. Elan Communication appeared in 1981 and disappeared somewhere in the 80s (83 or 84). Events list (according to the materials I own): * 78 * Holi Miami April Tucson July Geneva September Hans jayanti Florida Nov * 79 * Holi Miami April Kissimee Sept 2 Milwaukee Oct 10 LA Oct 14 Hans Jayanti Orlando oct/nov Miami Dec 25 * 1980 * Latin American tour : Sao Paulo 1/30-31 Caracas 2/6-7 Holi Rome June 22-23-24-25 Guru Puja Miami July 25/26/27 Guru Puja London August 24 + Rome October 17-19 Miami Nov 9 Kansas City Nov 28/29 * 1981 * Montreal Jan 3 Caracas Febr 3-4 Lima Peru Febr 7-8 Birmingham March 17 Copenhaguen March 22 Rome March 31 Brisbane May 2 Miami ? * 1982 * Miami Dec 12 N York Nov 10 * 1983 * Manchester 2/19/83 Miami Beach 7/2-3/83 LA 9/4/83 Paris 9/20/83 Milano 9/22/83 Madrid 9/23/84 London 9/26/83 Montreal 11/29/83 Chicago 11/30/83 Miami beach 12/9/83 * 1984 * N York 3/14/84 Birmingham 3/18/84 Kuala Lumpur 4/3/84 Melbourne 4/13/84 Sydney 4/11/84 & 4/15/84 Auckland 4/16/84 LA 5/6/84 Santa Monica 5/8/84 Londo 9/26/84 Chicago 11/30/84 (or 83 ?) * 1985 * LA Febr 21 Vancouver Febr 28 (Public program) LA March 2 (Public prog) Melbourne March 26 (Public prog) & 27 Sydney March 28 (Public prog) & 29 Kuala Lumpur April 8 & 9 (Public prog) Kuala Lumpur May 2 Public program Miami July 5 * 1986 * Houston Febr 9 (Public prog) * 1987 * Hayward (CA) March 1 Paris August 19 Tel Aviv August 25 LA december 10 * 1988 * Instructors conferences: Miami May 11, LA May 16 Australian tour & instructors training (May June) European tour (July), & meetings with instructors. That's all so far Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 10:53:33 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Mr Ex (Wanted) Subject: Re: Some history (Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos) Message: Thanks, You've helped me figure out I left in 1980, not '81. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 10:55:38 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: Mr Ex (Wanted) Subject: Re: Some history (Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos) Message: Whilst my PC was attempting to crash our poor Forum, Brian was having nightmares, and I was busy digging materials out of my messy bedrooms closet. I still own piles of audio cassettes, videos and magazines where I found all these dates. If this is BB we can get together. I can borrow a scanner. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 11:00:12 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos Message: Jim: How bout posting the priceless "My beautiful white suit" 'satsang' again? Maybe we could make it a permament fixture on the site somewhere under the heading, "Perfect Inanities".? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 11:25:32 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: To: Mr Ex (Wanted) Subject: Re: Some history (Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos) Message: Psychologically I was in a very strange state in the early 80's but ....My memory is that John Lennon was killed on Dec 8th and right after that there was a program, I believe in Miami, which I do not see on your list. Also, the '88 instructors conference - I thought they were all fired? Or was this a conference for new instructors? How were they picked? I thought only M gave K now. So were these new ones also fired? Thanks! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 12:39:52 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex Email: To: John K. Subject: Instructors torture (Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos) Message: >Psychologically I was in a very strange state in the early 80's but .... >My memory is that John Lennon was killed on Dec 8th and right >after that there was a program, I believe in Miami, which I do not >see on your list. My memory is still VERY strange, according to what I’m discovering now. I even discovered my name printed in some old magazine, I was shocked! I gave the dates I am absolutely sure (they are printed on those tapes etc). Some other ex’s might still own old tapes and give some other dates. >Also, the '88 instructors conference - I thought they were all fired? 90% of the previous ones (full time, picked in the ashrams) were fired. Some were left. Those were the ‘part-time’ instructors conferences (m had 150-200 of them for a while). The few ‘full-time’ left were also invited. I think that period of time, after the ‘ashram’, was one of my most frustrating past experiences, very likely the reason why my memory is so bad. I’m trying to be as unbiased as possible regarding these memories, I find it extremely helpful. Otherwise it remains like ‘good old bad time’, lots of imagination, far from reality. Sort of ashamed facing the truth of facts. >Or was this a conference for new instructors? How were they picked? They first had to file an application, and then waited for years (most of them). Of course many of those who filed an application never got chosen and experienced lots of frustration and jealousy. Some were new premies. I guess they were recommended by national coordinators to m whom told first what type of persons he wanted. >I thought only M gave K now. So were these new ones also fired? 99% of them got fired in 90 or 91, I don’t remember yet exactly. I perfectly remember the circumstances, but not the dates. He never really said: ‘you are fired’. He said he wanted to prepare the aspirants himself, and then give them k himself. It looked like a unbelievable challenge at that time. Most of us wouldn’t really believe him. I think that most of the instructors believed that m was letting them somewhere on ‘standby’ and that he was going to call them again sooner or later, that he couldn’t do all this by himself. Me like others went to most of those aspirant meetings to see how m would ‘prepare’ them, and hoping that m would give us some ‘service’. He did during the ‘rejoice’ time. For k reviews with all the premies. Things became a little weird for me at that time, attending all these conferences where m would still have some attention for us. Extremely frustrating. I think that’s when a lot of politics started in Elan Vital (amongst organizers/co-ordinators, cause most of them were ex-instructors). Most of these ex-initiators got involved in organization. And they tried to please m in every possible manner, doing this, doing that, inventing this or that, spending time building the new residence or working on the lands, organizing their teams, hoping desperately that m was going to notice how beautiful and intelligent they are. Politics is still a very strong thing in EV’s organization. I’ve been obviously a part of that big trip. To the point I got totally disgusted of the whole BS m lives on. He ADORES this. And he NEEDS these frustrated lovers, as slaves obviously. He ADORES playing with them. PAM told me many stories. He adores hearing about gossips and rumors in the ‘premies world’. Some of his best friends are big gossipers. He THRIVES on other peoples misery. Remember that movie: ‘Misery’. M mentioned that he loved it. It’s only know that I understand. At that time I thought he was enduring misery from people who loved him. I now think he adores the misery people suffer because of his psychotic behavior. Gurus privilege. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 13:13:49 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: Mr Ex (Wanted) Subject: Re: Some history (Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos) Message: Whilst my PC was attempting to crash our poor Forum, Brian was having nightmares, and I was busy digging materials out of my messy bedrooms closet. I still own piles of audio cassettes, videos and magazines where I found all these dates. Hope it’s going to be helpful (JW?). I started with 70s and 80s. I have a huge list for the 90s, I’ll try to make something clear out of it. Some facts according to what’s printed on those materials, M’s production business was called Shri Hans Productions at DLM time (in the beginning). Then SHP disappeared, and materials were copyright DLM in 78 & 79. Elan Communication appeared in 1981 and disappeared somewhere in the 80s (83 or 84). Events list (according to the materials I own): * 78 * Holi Miami April Tucson July Geneva September Hans jayanti Florida Nov * 79 * Holi Miami April Kissimee Sept 2 Milwaukee Oct 10 LA Oct 14 Hans Jayanti Orlando oct/nov Miami Dec 25 * 1980 * Latin American tour : Sao Paulo 1/30-31 Caracas 2/6-7 Holi Rome June 22-23-24-25 Guru Puja Miami July 25/26/27 Guru Puja London August 24 + Rome October 17-19 Miami Nov 9 Kansas City Nov 28/29 * 1981 * Montreal Jan 3 Caracas Febr 3-4 Lima Peru Febr 7-8 Birmingham March 17 Copenhaguen March 22 Rome March 31 Brisbane May 2 Miami ? * 1982 * Miami Dec 12 N York Nov 10 * 1983 * Manchester 2/19/83 Miami Beach 7/2-3/83 LA 9/4/83 Paris 9/20/83 Milano 9/22/83 Madrid 9/23/84 London 9/26/83 Montreal 11/29/83 Chicago 11/30/83 Miami beach 12/9/83 * 1984 * N York 3/14/84 Birmingham 3/18/84 Kuala Lumpur 4/3/84 Melbourne 4/13/84 Sydney 4/11/84 & 4/15/84 Auckland 4/16/84 LA 5/6/84 Santa Monica 5/8/84 Londo 9/26/84 Chicago 11/30/84 (or 83 ?) * 1985 * LA Febr 21 Vancouver Febr 28 (Public program) LA March 2 (Public prog) Melbourne March 26 (Public prog) & 27 Sydney March 28 (Public prog) & 29 Kuala Lumpur April 8 & 9 (Public prog) Kuala Lumpur May 2 Public program Miami July 5 * 1986 * Houston Febr 9 (Public prog) * 1987 * Hayward (CA) March 1 Paris August 19 Tel Aviv August 25 LA december 10 * 1988 * Instructors conferences: Miami May 11, LA May 16 Australian tour & instructors training (May June) European tour (July), & meetings with instructors. That's all so far Thanks, Mr. Ex, maybe we can fill in more details from other things you have and the memories of other exs. I have a few comments: 1979: The Sept 2 Kissimee program actually started out in Miami Beach. It was the "hurricane" program that got moved to the Kissimee site and Guru Maharaj Ji gave darshan in the middle of the night. Also in 1979: There was Hans Jayanti Festival in early November in the Kissimee swamp. I recall the American Embassy/Hostage situation began in Iran while we were at the festival. Also in 1979, there was also a series of other programs including Wildwood, NJ, Miami and New Orleans. Also 1979 -- that Christmas program was just for ashram residents in Miami, but may have been phone-fed to the communities. 1980 -- There was also a Holi festival in Miami, held, not at the Orange Bowl, but at a baseball stadium in Miami. Also the programs were held in Hollywood, FLA at the Sportatorium and not at the Miami Beach Convention Center. I think it was in April, 1980. After that Kansas City program in November, 1980, I recall there was a meeting held for community coordinators, in which Michael Dettmers, looking even more death-like and like a vampire than he usually did, said we were TO DO NOTHING, absolutely nothing. It was kind of weird. I recall I went back to San Francisco, unofficially resigned my CC position, went out and got a job, and had a brief affair with one of the sisters in the sister's ashram. [Yes, it's true, well, she was into it, and I thought: "what the hell!" and I'm just following Dettmers' agya to try to keep from "doing something" anyway!] Like John said, right after John Lennon was killed, Guru Maharaji held one of those birthday programs at the Miami Beach Convention Center. [I recall, as CC in San Francisco, I rented two cars from a company which offered them with unlimited mileage. Two carloads of premies drove from San Francisco to Miami and back for the program. When I returned the cars, the company couldn't believe they each had 6,000 more miles on them! All put on in about three days. Such were the days when premies would do absolutely anything to go see their perfect master!] 1981 I recall in early 1981, M did a series of programs in the states. (Jan or Feb). One was in Baltimore which I attended. If I recall right, there was yet another Holi festival in Miami in spring of 1981. In the Spring of 1981, M also did some introductory programs, at least one of which was in San Francisco. He did it again in the Fall, one of which was in Berkeley. [In the Bay Area, I think about 5 interested people followed up from these programs.] 1982 I know there was a big Guru Puja Festival in Miami, the last weekend of July, 1982. This is burned into my memory because I missed my little sister's wedding to go to that stupid program and listen to the inane things Guru Maharaj Ji said. [This was the last festival I ever attended.] Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 13:24:02 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: kreilkamp@mindspring.com To: Mr Ex Subject: Re: Instructors torture (Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos) Message: Wow! What a heavy trip. I remember finding most of the initiators (pre '82) under a lot of stress and pressure and hence rather difficult to relate to. I remember one exception was one from Europe that came to our ashram and I played chess with him. It was nice. Doing something that was NOT satsang service or meditation. I was the 'housefather' at the time (God! I want to gag even remembering that term!) and so I figured it was my obligation to entertain the initiators, you know how some initiators needed people to play tennis with etc. Well, one of the 'brothers' in the house confronted us one night as we were setting out the pieces and strongly objected to our playing chess. He said we were setting a bad example. I remember really hoping that the initiator would tell this brother to go jump in a lake, mind your own business, etc. But he didn't. He caved. He humbly apologized and so we had to stop playing. Maybe this is proof of sorts to 'A premie' that I really did miss the whole point in the 70's, right? I mean, I really was not humble at all. I really had the most un-spiritual of thoughts that this 'brother' - complaining that we were lowering the vibe in the ashram - was totally an ass hole! I know I'm right about that too. But, anyway, I am thinking how difficult it must have been to be an initiator. All the bs heaped upon them by M and by the premies. Coming from both directions. and then to have to enter the work a day world again. I wish we could hear from some of them. I'd like to hear their stories. Thanks for yours Mr. Ex. I bet really very little ever changes in M's world. He still orders people around and plays with them just like he did when he was 8 years old. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 13:36:22 (EST)
Poster: wife, servants, family, false lovers, Email: bb To: Mr Ex Subject: and Instructors tortured (Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos) Message: I hope he enjoys our little grapevine. Is bill wishard still involved? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 15:04:05 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com To: JW Subject: Re: Some history(off topic) (Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos) Message: I think I heard the 80 birthday satsang via phone feed to San Fernando Valley, CA. I had already started to deprogram and had been shocked by Lennon's death. I was listening for maharaji to make some mention, but naturally it didn't figure into his trip. I was grief-stricken but maharaji was business as usual. It helped to push me a little further over the edge. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 15:40:13 (EST)
Poster: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: JW Subject: Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos Message: Okay, okay, you twisted my arm. Last Friday, I got the idea that because Maharaji was so into selling those expensive videos of his, he might use those video facilities to his advantage to explain away some of the more embarrassing stuff from his past. I mean, since they air brushed the zits off his face for AIID, why not just carry that a little further and doctor-up some video footage (no pun intended) editing out the more embarrassing parts, including editing out or explaining-away us exs. Anyway, I came up with some video titles that he might use in peddling the videos to PBS and the CBC to improve his image among the general public. Katie came up with some more. If anyone has any more suggestions, please add to the list. 'We Are Not A Cult, Really We Aren't' 'That Lord Of The Universe Thing: WHAT Was I THINKING?' 'I Was Really Young At The Time, And the Cognac Made Me Do It' 'Maharaji: His Frugal, Spartan, Very Spiritual Lifestyle' 'The Ashram Experiment: How It Saved So Many Lives' 'I Never Said I Was God, Those Stupid Premies Did' 'I Was Only Doing Important Research: How Many Rolls Royces Can You Fit In Front Of One Malibu Mansion' 'Maharaji's Guide To Answering Correspondence From Former Devotees Who Ask Troubling Questions: Just Ignore It!' 'The Summer Of '76: Those Spaced-Out Premies' 'I Was Not Worshipped, I Never Encouraged It, And Besides, I Don't Do It Anymore' 'Kissing My Feet: How The Medicinal Benefits Of My Toes Cured Cancer In Thousands' 'PAM: The Evil Group That Forced Me To Be Worshipped And To Live Like A King Against My Will' 'Surrender' Was Just My Little Way Of Saying Don%2 'Regrets, I've had a few, but then again, too few too mention...' '...For after all, I did it MY WAY' Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 19:16:50 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: John K. Subject: Re: Instructors torture (Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos) Message: I remember one exception was one from Europe that came to our ashram and I played chess with him. It was nice. Doing something that was NOT satsang service or meditation. I was the 'housefather' at the time (God! I want to gag even remembering that term!) and so I figured it was my obligation to entertain the initiators, you know how some initiators needed people to play tennis with etc. Well, one of the 'brothers' in the house confronted us one night as we were setting out the pieces and strongly objected to our playing chess. He said we were setting a bad example. I remember really hoping that the initiator would tell this brother to go jump in a lake, mind your own business, etc. But he didn't. He caved. He humbly apologized and so we had to stop playing. Maybe this is proof of sorts to 'A premie' that I really did miss the whole point in the 70's, right? I mean, I really was not humble at all. I really had the most un-spiritual of thoughts that this 'brother' - complaining that we were lowering the vibe in the ashram - was totally an ass hole! I know I'm right about that too. I'll bet that European initiator was F. Attems, wasn't it. I used to play chess with F as well. F had been Claudia's boyfriend before she got involved with Raja Ji [what a mistake THAT was!] Although F was truly an example of one of the Eurotrash initiators, he was a very nice guy. Very kind to me. I recall I was having a really hard time, and after F left where I was living he called me from the road to see if I was doing okay. I recall so seldom anything like that happening among premies, especially initiators. Simple human kindness. John, I think the reason you were open to playing chess is that there was a part of you that really wanted to remain a whole person, and not just a programmed cult member. It was probably the thing that enabled you to walk away when you did. And I don't think "A Premie" was talking about "understanding" in the sense that you always followed the straight and narrow in the ashram. I think "understanding" or the lack thereof, was just a convenient excuse for him as to there even are ex-premies. I think the initiator David Smith is a good example of the hypocritical phenomenon and your comment about playing tennis with the initiators reminded me of it. When I was CC in Miami, one of the main functions of the community office was to find people to play tennis with David Smith. That's all he wanted to do, despite the fact that he was technically our "resident" initiator. I remember getting kind of irritated, as there seemed to be more important things to do. Then, about a year later, Smith came to my new community, San Francisco, and did an inquisition in the ashram, absolutely terrorizing the ashram premies, and accusing them of spacing out their ashram vows. He was obnoxious and sadistic. I also thought it was sort of hypocritical, given his previous spaced-out behavior in Miami just previously. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 20:51:08 (EST)
Poster: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: all Subject: Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos Message: Okay, okay, you twisted my arm. Last Friday, I got the idea that because Maharaji was so into selling those expensive videos of his, he might use those video facilities to his advantage to explain away some of the more embarrassing stuff from his past. I mean, since they air brushed the zits off his face for AIID, why not just carry that a little further and doctor-up some video footage (no pun intended) editing out the more embarrassing parts, including editing out or explaining-away us exs. Anyway, I came up with some video titles that he might use in peddling the videos to PBS and the CBC to improve his image among the general public. Katie came up with some more. If anyone has any more suggestions, please add to the list. 'We Are Not A Cult, Really We Aren't' 'That Lord Of The Universe Thing: WHAT Was I THINKING?' 'I Was Really Young At The Time, And the Cognac Made Me Do It' 'Maharaji: His Frugal, Spartan, Very Spiritual Lifestyle' 'The Ashram Experiment: How It Saved So Many Lives' 'I Never Said I Was God, Those Stupid Premies Did' 'I Was Only Doing Important Research: How Many Rolls Royces Can You Fit In Front Of One Malibu Mansion' 'Maharaji's Guide To Answering Correspondence From Former Devotees Who Ask Troubling Questions: Just Ignore It!' 'The Summer Of '76: Those Spaced-Out Premies' 'I Was Not Worshipped, I Never Encouraged It, And Besides, I Don't Do It Anymore' 'Kissing My Feet: How The Medicinal Benefits Of My Toes Cured Cancer In Thousands' 'PAM: The Evil Group That Forced Me To Be Worshipped And To Live Like A King Against My Will' 'Surrender' Was Just My Little Way Of Saying Don%2 'Regrets, I've had a few, but then again, too few too mention...' '...For after all, I did it MY WAY' 'This time the master has come with more humilty, and more remorse than ever before.' 'I'm gonna make Krishnamurti look like Noddy' Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 21:13:46 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Nigel Subject: Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos Message: 'This time the master has come with more humilty, and more remorse than ever before.' 'I'm gonna make Krishnamurti look like Noddy' Dear Nigel, Don't you mean: 'This time the master has come with LESS humility, and LESS remorse, than ever before.'? (That's my view of the matter anyway!) Also, believe it or not, most Americans don't know who Noddy is. Be warned as well that David Simpkiss and I have gotten into trouble on the site for talking about Noddy (not to mention Adrian Mole) and wasting disk space. Regards from Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 03:13:44 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: Katie Subject: Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos Message: More Americans know who Noddy is than you might think! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 10:25:42 (EST)
Poster: Katie off topic Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: JW Subject: Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos Message: More Americans know who Noddy is than you might think! Well, I didn't, JW, although I had HEARD about him from reading Adrian Mole's diaries. I had to ask David Simpkiss, who obligingly explained the whole cast of characters to me. I guess this is the result of my living in a cultural backwater, rather than in the big city. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 11:44:25 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex Email: To: Katie off topic Subject: BigM's advertisers (Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos) Message: According to the lists printed in publications of that time, EV had 110 instructors in 1986/87 in the US and Canada and 40 at the same period of time in UK. As m had dozens of instructors in most of the other (main/propagation) countries, the total figure was very likely around 250. Old time: He had very likely 40 to 50 full-time western initiators in the 70s (1976-1980): these guys were picked up amongst the ashram premies. They were living in the ashram, and supported by DLM. 90% were fired in 1980/81 (some later) when the ashrams started closing. He kept some of them for his private use (!) .... in SHP (Monika Lewis, Mike Wood), for his security, for his family, to take care of his residences in UK & in India, as national co-ordinators (in some instances), chauffeur, etc Very few of the ‘old’ Indian mahatmas are still there in West: Padarthanand (Ram Padarth), Charnanand, Belkis Shah, Mahavir Singh, Jagdeo (?), Sampurnanand, Raja Ji (Dharampal Rawat). Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 14:23:00 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: Katie off topic Subject: Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos Message: More Americans know who Noddy is than you might think! Well, I didn't, JW, although I had HEARD about him from reading Adrian Mole's diaries. I had to ask David Simpkiss, who obligingly explained the whole cast of characters to me. I guess this is the result of my living in a cultural backwater, rather than in the big city. It's also the result of being around yuppie lawyers and their yuppie children being taken care of by English nannies! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 16:04:51 (EST)
Poster: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Katie Subject: Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos Message: 'This time the master has come with more humilty, and more remorse than ever before.' 'I'm gonna make Krishnamurti look like Noddy' Dear Nigel, Don't you mean: 'This time the master has come with LESS humility, and LESS remorse, than ever before.'? (That's my view of the matter anyway!) Also, believe it or not, most Americans don't know who Noddy is. Be warned as well that David Simpkiss and I have gotten into trouble on the site for talking about Noddy (not to mention Adrian Mole) and wasting disk space. Regards from Katie Thanks Katie - it was actually an attempt at irony, as in: Krishnamurti may have become humble (ie. renounce his perfect mastership), but I'm gonna be even humbler than that - the Lord of all Humbles, in fact, thereby showing that even in remorse he's an out and out egotist. (either the humour doesn't travel or I'll never make a comedy scriptwriter) Best wishes, Nigel Best wishes Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 16:16:18 (EST)
Poster: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: all Subject: Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos Message: Just a few more of those 'Maharaji comes clean' titles, if you haven't had enough yet. 'Making that commitment... all major credit cards accepted.' 'We are Family of Love - well, me and Raja Ji, at least...' 'Oh Dear, what can the Mata Ji? - the "difficult years" re-examined' "He ain't heavy, he's my brother. The offical Peace Corps military training guide' 'A premie's need for service (and the mansion's need for a refurb)' That's all, bye.. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 17:29:25 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: To: Nigel Subject: Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos Message: 'This time the master has come with more humilty, and more remorse than ever before.' 'I'm gonna make Krishnamurti look like Noddy' Dear Nigel, Don't you mean: 'This time the master has come with LESS humility, and LESS remorse, than ever before.'? (That's my view of the matter anyway!) Also, believe it or not, most Americans don't know who Noddy is. Be warned as well that David Simpkiss and I have gotten into trouble on the site for talking about Noddy (not to mention Adrian Mole) and wasting disk space. Regards from Katie Thanks Katie - it was actually an attempt at irony, as in: Krishnamurti may have become humble (ie. renounce his perfect mastership), but I'm gonna be even humbler than that - the Lord of all Humbles, in fact, thereby showing that even in remorse he's an out and out egotist. (either the humour doesn't travel or I'll never make a comedy scriptwriter) Best wishes, Nigel Best wishes Sorry, Nigel. It's not your writing, it's my sense of humor, or lack of one, that is. Sometimes I am just too literal-minded. It IS funny now that I finally get it. (Plus, as JW says, I am culturally deprived re Noddy.) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Feb 26, 1998 at 04:26:30 (EST)
Poster: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Katie Subject: Re: Maharaji Infomercial Videos Message: 'This time the master has come with more humilty, and more remorse than ever before.' 'I'm gonna make Krishnamurti look like Noddy' Dear Nigel, Don't you mean: 'This time the master has come with LESS humility, and LESS remorse, than ever before.'? (That's my view of the matter anyway!) Also, believe it or not, most Americans don't know who Noddy is. Be warned as well that David Simpkiss and I have gotten into trouble on the site for talking about Noddy (not to mention Adrian Mole) and wasting disk space. Regards from Katie Thanks Katie - it was actually an attempt at irony, as in: Krishnamurti may have become humble (ie. renounce his perfect mastership), but I'm gonna be even humbler than that - the Lord of all Humbles, in fact, thereby showing that even in remorse he's an out and out egotist. (either the humour doesn't travel or I'll never make a comedy scriptwriter) Best wishes, Nigel Best wishes Sorry, Nigel. It's not your writing, it's my sense of humor, or lack of one, that is. Sometimes I am just too literal-minded. It IS funny now that I finally get it. (Plus, as JW says, I am culturally deprived re Noddy.) I guess the Noddy quote would throw a lot of people. You need to know Maharaj Ji's original line: 'I'm gonna make the Ramayana look like Noddy'. For Noddy, read 'kid's stuff'. Best wishes Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 20:00:58 (EST)
Poster: Selena Email: To: Everyone Subject: Why we're here & where we're going Message: I am still a newcomer. I just caught up with the last 50 posts. (my workload has suddenly increased) Someone asked, why are we here? I was originally here, 2 months ago, because I found the Long Beach event to be one of the more bizarre and depressing episodes of my life! I needed support and found it here. Others may be here to enjoy intellectual discussion, and so what? that's a valid reason. We all process this bizarre past of being premies in a different way. I would like to stay in touch and am concerned that this forum continue. M needs to be confronted. IMHO, he is a fraud and has taken people for a ride. For me the financial part was the least hurtful. Worse yet was the emotionally crippling avoidance witnessed in my life as well as those close to me, and caused by being in a personality cult where one can transer all praise and blame elsewhere was the worst part. I guess this post is meant to express anger at whoever spammed the site, and to find a way to encourage Brian, and all of us to find a way to continue communicating. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 23:57:32 (EST)
Poster: Steve A Email: To: Selena Subject: Re: Why we're here & where we're going Message: You are not alone in your painfull experiences of Maharaji, many here tell of some trajic experiences. It's a big let down to realize that the "lord of the universe" really is'nt. I had to own up to myself how dumb I was for believing it all. For me the experience has made me stronger and hopefully a better person. I think it was Zarathustra who said "that which does not kill us makes us stronger". Be stronger for the experience Selena Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 01:18:33 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: Selena Subject: Re: Why we're here & where we're going Message: I am still a newcomer. I just caught up with the last 50 posts. (my workload has suddenly increased) Someone asked, why are we here? I was originally here, 2 months ago, because I found the Long Beach event to be one of the more bizarre and depressing episodes of my life! I needed support and found it here. Others may be here to enjoy intellectual discussion, and so what? that's a valid reason. We all process this bizarre past of being premies in a different way. I would like to stay in touch and am concerned that this forum continue. M needs to be confronted. IMHO, he is a fraud and has taken people for a ride. For me the financial part was the least hurtful. Worse yet was the emotionally crippling avoidance witnessed in my life as well as those close to me, and caused by being in a personality cult where one can transer all praise and blame elsewhere was the worst part. I guess this post is meant to express anger at whoever spammed the site, and to find a way to encourage Brian, and all of us to find a way to continue communicating. I liked what Anon said below, that part of the experience of one of those devotional/worship programs we used to go to was the relief of leaving the hall and going back to a more "normal" life. I can also recall feeling relief every time I knew Maharaji was leaving the country. He was more of a burden, really, someone I was supposed to figure out how to love, and get through another day of my life with. He was someone I was supposed to try to dissolve my life in. It never worked, we just pretended it did, and we aided each other in the deception. And I convinced myself that I loved him so much, but it had nothing to do with love. Anyhow, I also experienced incredible belief in getting away from Maharaji and his cult. Not so much physically, although that was important too, but more psychologically. Like a child, what had been programmed into me in the cult had become second nature, and only by uprooting it did I begin to feel free again. It was exhilarating. It was like coming out of a fog into the light of day. It sort of felt like seeing life again for the first time. I had to be away awhile before I realized how much of my spirit had been suffocated by following Maharaji. I also think this site needs to continue. It already has been wildly successful, and it's really only just begun! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 19:42:37 (EST)
Poster: Just Curious Email: To: Steve A Subject: Re: Why we're here & where we're going Message: You are not alone in your painfull experiences of Maharaji, many here tell of some trajic experiences. It's a big let down to realize that the 'lord of the universe' really is'nt. I had to own up to myself how dumb I was for believing it all. For me the experience has made me stronger and hopefully a better person. I think it was Zarathustra who said 'that which does not kill us makes us stronger'. Be stronger for the experience Selena Steve Did you ever find out who/what/where was the REAL Lord of the Universe? And if so, how did you go about finding such a 'truth'? JC Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 21:30:22 (EST)
Poster: Steve A Email: To: Just Curious Subject: Re: Why we're here & where we're going Message: Dear Just Curious Yes I have found the real lord of the universe. The disillusionment I felt with the whole DLM experience made me even more determinined in my search for real lord of the universe. My prayers to God became more fervent because of the pain I endured, for some reason I have never doubted that God existed, but I was deeply hurt that he would allow me to go through so much pain in my search for him. Through deep prayer and meditation (Kriya yoga) I found my hunger for him had deepened. One day in deep meditation and prayer I found myself crying, this was strange to me as I rarely shed a tear for anything, it was then the hunger dispelled and I found I was engulfed in what could I could only describe as deep and powerful love, I heard no voices and saw no visions but a deep communication entered through every fibre of my being, "I am here, I have ever been with you, and shall always be with you". There is only one lord of the universe and he dwells equally within each of us, I now know that the only thing he can't resist is the true and sincere call of our hearts. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 21:56:50 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Selena Subject: Re: Why we're here & where we're going Message: I am still a newcomer. I just caught up with the last 50 posts. (my workload has suddenly increased) Quit yer job, Selena! This is important!! [grin] Someone asked, why are we here? I was originally here, 2 months ago, because I found the Long Beach event to be one of the more bizarre and depressing episodes of my life! I needed support and found it here. I first checked out the forum about a year ago because I had promised myself to settle this old business one way or another. There were 2 other sites online at the time (both premie sites - both since removed due to urging from guess who). They were full of the same devotional syrup that caused me to distance myself from DLM in the first place. I was raising children and they were still playing Our Father The Guru. I couldn't relate then and I found the only outlet for my feelings was here. It didn't take long to sort out the main knots after I started reading and posting here. M needs to be confronted. IMHO, he is a fraud and has taken people for a ride. For me the financial part was the least hurtful. Worse yet was the emotionally crippling avoidance witnessed in my life as well as those close to me, and caused by being in a personality cult where one can transer all praise and blame elsewhere was the worst part. It amazes me just how strong the concensus is regarding these points among those who have faced up to having been hoodwinked. And without there being a requirement to watch Ex-Videos for 6 months before being allowed to participate! Must be Ex-Grace... ya think?? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 22:08:59 (EST)
Poster: Selena Email: To: Brian Subject: Re: Quitting my job (if only!) (Re: Why we're here & where we're going) Message: I'd love to quit my job and work full time as a web developer for this site. I have become somewhat bored with computing and this would be a labor of love. Too bad those darned labors of love so seldom pay the iblls! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 22:12:54 (EST)
Poster: Selena Email: To: everyone Subject: Re: Quitting my job (if only!) (Re: Why we're here & where we're going) Message: I'd love to quit my job and work full time as a web developer for this site. I have become somewhat bored with computing and this would be a labor of love. Too bad those darned labors of love so seldom pay the iblls! of course with all the typos and mistakes I make on here, who would hire me? iblls are hard to pay even with a real job. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 09:03:32 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Selena Subject: Webmastering on a tight budget (Re: Why we're here & where we're going) Message: I'd love to quit my job and work full time as a web developer for this site. I have become somewhat bored with computing and this would be a labor of love. Too bad those darned labors of love so seldom pay the iblls! of course with all the typos and mistakes I make on here, who would hire me? iblls are hard to pay even with a real job. Plead dyslexia. It allows you to pay a bill for a thousand dollars by writing a check for '$0,001 and no sense'. I have other helpful advice. Maybe I'll write a book... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 14:41:04 (EST)
Poster: Student Email: To: Steve A Subject: Re: Why we're here & where we're going Message: I enjoyed your post. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 16:52:59 (EST)
Poster: regular Email: ** To: Steve A Subject: caller (Re: Why we're here & where we're going) Message: Once we are aquainted, the contact can be a varied and nutty or original or casual or goofy or smartmouthed (with some discretion), and lofty and wild and open and regular and sometimes, surprise surprise, some strong and rich response. I need those responses sometimes just to confirm the whole deal. And to insure it's a two way street. And as a kicker that yes it's real. Had a good one a few days ago. If I can't interact with the power behind all the folks then the world closes in a bit. It makes it easier to put up with everybodies less pleasant sides. Student feels maharji has not so insidious effects, well, he gets right inbetween you and that power. Poses as it's voice, and limits your possibilities. His limitations are severe and they become yours. Even if you are a casually involved premie his dogma's get into you and you are limited by them. That is no small deal. Hard to see maybe. When his evolution was mine, and he was main influence, HE was the source of evolving view on life. Breaking free of his influence has been like a caged bird set free. Sanity stands a chance, and natural living becomes possible. Laughter becomes a regular visiter. The lord master guru hindu is going around in circles. Student would do well to ask when is graduation? The answer is never. His family didn't even graduate. His wife has not. He most certainly has not. If bill Patterson and Jim Hession and Joan Apter flunked then you certainly won't attain the fantasy. As a matter of fact, if I---I----Me the burke-- If I couldn't then --well, never mind. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 19:29:36 (EST)
Poster: Student Email: To: regular Subject: Re: caller (Re: Why we're here & where we're going) Message: Once we are aquainted, the contact can be a varied and nutty or original or casual or goofy or smartmouthed (with some discretion), and lofty and wild and open and regular and sometimes, surprise surprise, some strong and rich response. I need those responses sometimes just to confirm the whole deal. And to insure it's a two way street. And as a kicker that yes it's real. Had a good one a few days ago. If I can't interact with the power behind all the folks then the world closes in a bit. It makes it easier to put up with everybodies less pleasant sides. Student feels maharji has not so insidious effects, well, he gets right inbetween you and that power. Poses as it's voice, and limits your possibilities. His limitations are severe and they become yours. Even if you are a casually involved premie his dogma's get into you and you are limited by them. That is no small deal. Hard to see maybe. When his evolution was mine, and he was main influence, HE was the source of evolving view on life. Breaking free of his influence has been like a caged bird set free. Sanity stands a chance, and natural living becomes possible. Laughter becomes a regular visiter. The lord master guru hindu is going around in circles. Student would do well to ask when is graduation? The answer is never. His family didn't even graduate. His wife has not. He most certainly has not. If bill Patterson and Jim Hession and Joan Apter flunked then you certainly won't attain the fantasy. As a matter of fact, if I---I----Me the burke-- If I couldn't then --well, never mind. The role of the master... It sounds like you don't question the essence of Knowledge, just the role of the master. OK, here goes. "Poses as its voice..." Maharaji has not told me that it is him that I am experiencing. "His limitations are severe and they become yours." I guess some people on this forum would list his limitations as: demanding, overbearing, expecting money, kisses to his feet...I don't know what all. Some of the items on that list probably come from ashram experiences. I feel unlimited. I don't consider myself a "casually involved premie" unless you consider my participation in this forum. Maharaji's dogma... I meditate as often as I can. Maharaji presents a goal of 1 hour each day, not necessarily at 4:00AM. Maybe one day I will reach that goal. I see a reason to. I want to. I see videos when I can. Usually they are reruns at home because local videos aren't local enough. Why? Because Maharaji reminds me to feel. He reminds me to consider my priorities. He does not set them for me. I contribute what money I want to contribute. Why? For the same reason I contribute to United Way. I like what he offers. I want Knowledge to be as accessible as possible. I'm not real big on aggressive missionary work. I just want Knowledge accessible to everyone who wants that opportunity to fly. My evolving view of life continues within and without Maharaji's context. I don't see contradictions in what Maharaji says, only in how he has been interpreted by different people at different times. The Lord Master Guru Hindu is spiraling in my perspective, not going in circles. Graduation... From high school, from college, nice diplomas on the wall, big deal. As long as I am alive I will be a student. Learning is everything. The diploma is just to please the boss. So what fantasy do you say I am trying to attain? I exist now. I enjoy now. I learn now. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 1998 at 23:48:25 (EST)
Poster: Oh Studious Email: ** To: Student Subject: One (Re: Why we're here & where we're going) Message: Hello there Student. Do you mind if we move this up top? I'll respond up there somewhere. Perhaps right below the thread by Mack. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 19:58:40 (EST)
Poster: David Simpkiss Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Everyone Subject: Memories of yesteryear Message: Does anybody remember sweet songstress, Julia Howe who used to sing; "Spread this knowledge to every land, To tell them that our Lord is true, Then we'll all know sat chit anand, And we'll know love is true." I used to live in a premie house in Clapham, London with Julia and a load more premies back in 1972/3 and used to love listening to her singing. We used to have some good jamming sessions then too. She was a lovely girl and we were good friends. That song, "Spread this knowledge" just about summed up my reason for trying to devote my life to Maharaji back then. Many was the time when I'd be having a hard time in the ashram and then I'd hear Julia singing that song on some film or other, and tears would fill my eyes. It was a dream we all shared back then wasn't it. Too bad it wasn't real and too bad that Maharaji took some of the kindest and most sincere souls on the planet and just wasted them. I wonder what Julia's up to now. Any fellow UK people know where she is? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 20:08:49 (EST)
Poster: Selena Email: To: David Simpkiss Subject: Re: Memories of yesteryear Message: I don't know where Julia is, but M's daughter, Dya (sp?) sang Spread This Knowledge in Long Beach in December. It made me cry, along wth many others in the hall. Too bad MY tears were tears of "what could have been or should have been" and not tears of joy. M is trying real hard to bring back that charismatic experience. His daughter is a major asset, she is beautiful and powerful. Still , I have to wonder where the charisma and power come from. It's not all that new for evangelical types to pass on the family business. Comments? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 20:10:46 (EST)
Poster: Selena Email: To: David Simpkiss Subject: Re: Memories of yesteryear Message: I don't know where Julia is, but M's daughter, Dya (sp?) sang Spread This Knowledge in Long Beach in December. It made me cry, along wth many others in the hall. Too bad MY tears were tears of "what could have been or should have been" and not tears of joy. M is trying real hard to bring back that charismatic experience. His daughter is a major asset, she is beautiful and powerful. Still , I have to wonder where the charisma and power come from. It's not all that new for evangelical types to pass on the family business. Comments? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 20:40:52 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Selena Subject: Re: Memories of yesteryear Message: Looks like all Maharaji's got left now is the old songs. Since Julia wrote that song I think she should be getting some appreciative gesture after 25 years. Interesting was your experience of listeming to the song recently compared to when we were all gung ho premies in the early seventies and we really believed the Lord was on the planet and we were his chosen ones. Naive we were but it's a bit sick that M is still trying to fool people with the same old trip. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Feb 23, 1998 at 23:42:04 (EST)
Poster: horrors of Email: bb To: Selena Subject: yesteryear (Re: Memories of yesteryear) Message: It's not that new for tyrants or narcissists to pass things to thier family because it's part of thier greed and identity. As time goes by you will be able to watch a video and see how he really is and realize there IS no charisma there. It is because we are so programmed by this long term delusion of his that we react in the audience as we do. I saw a video recently from washington 97 and the audience reaction was so out of sinche with where he was at. We wanted so badly to support his lordship in it's waneing years that the audience extracts joy out of comments he makes when he himself is feeling no good feeling as he says them. I can hardly believe what I see when I look back. By the way, I recently have had experiences similar to those that I had as a gopi and they are like the ones that O.P. leans on for support in the face of evidence that maharaji is not divine. The power is willing to play in one's life. Luckily I now know some of the things I experienced before have an explanation that is unrelated to maharaji's existance. I guess I should e-mail O.P. to tell her. There were some now vanished threads that were interesting and the only additional comment I would add to thier words is that in addition to logic and philosophy and evolved traits and behaviors, and beliefs, is that there is available evidence that the something called heartfelt love exists and there are some rules around it and the concious power can interact with us and it makes for a better adventure if we play around with that available feature of life. However, going near any religion to approach knowing about the power is dangerous and treacherous to your own origionality and freedom. Depends on your interest level perhaps. Kant; The very structure of my being is such that it postulates catagorically the existance of god or infinite perfectability. I am in the presence of god. Faith hope and love are mentioned in a few places as the core elements the power has made that can be used to construct a bond of our own making. Perhaps thats right. Seems maharaji believes in the hindu idol worship trip and meglomania and falsity and pretensiousness have him trapped. By his choice. Maybe it would be a kindness to destroy his prison. I will try. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 00:07:43 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: David Subject: Re: Memories of yesteryear Message: >Looks like all Maharaji's got left now is the old songs. Since Julia wrote that song I think she should be getting some appreciative gesture after 25 years. She may have died in an auto accident. Somebody will fill in the correct details. I do not share Selena's pessimistic appraisal of the Long Beach event. As far as music, there was a nice mix of old and new. It was still performed with a positive spirit just as when I first heard the old songs in London in 1972. >Naive we were but it's a bit sick that M is still trying to fool people with the same old trip. You may be fooling yourself this time. I went to Long Beach because I wanted to. I am glad I did. I will go again if the opportunity is in the future. CD Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 00:35:18 (EST)
Poster: Hindu Godheads Email: bb To: you Subject: falling from heaven (Re: Memories of yesteryear) Message: I was off to a job in Albany NY for a week and on the way I stopped at a health food store and the cashier told me about the Kripalu Institute down the road. Turns out that they had a hindu god called yogi desai and for many years he had the premies of his being strict celebits and changed thier names to hindi names and whatever and they discovered he was having sex with whomever and other things and they were all crushed to find out he was a fake and just a regular person and they threw him out and a lot of them got married and this cashier was a old maid with a blown dream. I felt sorry for her as I can relate to the experience. On the way back I stopped off at the Kripalu place and I stumbled upon a wild and nutty scene of a bongo player on the alter playing and 5 different rituals going on around the room along with some grateful dead style dancing. I saw a small square made of tape on the floor in the center of the room and so I went and stood on it to symbolize my independence from this surrounding scene. Then I saw they needed one more person to be part of this one ritual so I went and spent and hour waving one end of a twenty foot long piece of material while a girl stood next to me waving the end of another long piece and people would come dancing through it. I saw others putting thier hands in a pile of dirt and doing some hindu chants. Others went to a large bowl of water and some trippy dressed women would pour water over thier hands. Up on the wall was the picture of the yogis guru. He was still up there as no one could make the full break enough to finish the job and get rid of his picture too. As the night wore on I talked with a number of people and overheard some others and all that involvement with hinduism and that whole view of the power left them empty. And directionless. Sai Baba was run out of his organisation on the west coast because he was sexualy abuseing kids. Another one whose name I fergit used to pretend to make magic dust and throw it. And cookies. He got the boot for some reason as well. Of course maharaji REALLY takes the cake for bad behavior. His audacity knows no bounds. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 01:15:47 (EST)
Poster: Mother knows Email: bb To: CD Subject: best. (Re: Memories of yesteryear) Message: As long as death doesn't interfere you will have events to attend with him. He is in way to deep to admit to thier being a lord or concious power that isn't him. When he sets himself up as the voice of god and then cannot deliver the voice of god, he is limiting and ruining the lives of those who accept him at his word. It is just not fair to play god. Oh what a tangled web we weave when we decieve. Maybe we can blame his dad and hinduism up to a point, but he is well past any point where excuses can be made on his behalf. I think the first commandment is something about false gods. We idolized him and his great mission. we gave our lives and more. If I feel my breath with concentration without effort and feel something that doesn't mean there is no god and maharaji can just pretend to be god and it's ok. He has ruined his own life by playing god and he can't let go. You are not helping him by shareing his misfortune. If you were really his friend you would try to stop him and do you think you love him more than his mom? His mom tried to save him by revealing to the world that he is a fallen human. We made it possible for him to avoid growing up by our beliefs. He stands no chance of coming clean before god if we keep cheering the delusion. He will never be a man. If you are a premie of maharaji you will help destroy his false world. His legacy at this point is evil. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 01:53:50 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: CD Subject: Re: Memories of yesteryear Message: Chris Dicky wrote regarding Julia Howe: "She may have died in an auto accident. Somebody will fill in the correct details." You say MAY have died, how sure of you of this? I certainly would appreciate it if someone would fill in the details. Sad that she may have died. Our of all the premies I knew in that time, Julia was a dear, kind friend to me and she had love, good honest love for people and thankfully didn't partake in all the detatchment stuff which was around at the time. Once when I was going through a bad time she sensed it and spoke to me with such compassion and kindness. Dear Julia, sweet songstress of heaven, your love certainly touched me. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 05:39:56 (EST)
Poster: Anon Email: To: CD Subject: Re: Memories of yesteryear Message: I went to Long Beach because I wanted to. I am glad I did. I will go again if the opportunity is in the future. CD Surely not? That is a wonderful surprise! Do be careful now... don't forget to take your hanky and here's a shilling for some sweets. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 09:47:31 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: CD Subject: Re: Memories of yesteryear Message: Chris, when you say: 'I went to Long Beach because I wanted to. I am glad I did. I will go again if the opportunity is in the future.' you sound like Billy Bob Thorton in 'Slingblade.' Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 10:08:16 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: -------- Subject: Re: Memories of yesteryear Message: Does anybody remember sweet songstress, Julia Howe who used to sing; 'Spread this knowledge to every land, To tell them that our Lord is true, Then we'll all know sat chit anand, And we'll know love is true.'Her voice was unforgettable! I have to admit her testimony to the validity of Maharaji's World was part and parcel to why I signed on for the full ride. So were a thousand other voices, not all of them raised in song. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 10:20:22 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: horrors of Subject: Re: yesteryear (Re: Memories of yesteryear) Message: [random snippet from your post, to reference it]: As time goes by you will be able to watch a video and see how he really is and realize there IS no charisma there. D is a sexually alluring woman. That'll play well in Cincinatti. :) ---- I've found a simpler model for all of this, by the way. It is a MODEL; just as electricity and atoms aren't REALLY these little things orbiting around these little other things, and chemical compounds aren't REALLY these tinker- toy models, only shrunken down to size we can't see -- This MODEL, or working-model, that I use, is rather simple. Abandonment. The emotion of abandonment, the syntax used to describe it, the feeling it gives; the sexuality needed to medicate the feeling of abandonment -- that to me is the crux of all that is going on here, for Ex-Premies. And for Premies, generally; who were felt abandonment in the first place, maybe of society or of family, to then be sucked in by the Pitch M was giving at the time they arrived on the Aspirant Scene. There's no need to drag God into this. And then to simply admit that this model wasn't the ideal one; that I had no role models from which to emulate healthy or fulfilling behavior patterns from! Jesus didn't come and show me the way. How unfortunate. Freeking M wasn't a role model -- there was nothing he did that I could emulate. What could I do to emulate him? So where was my role model? Other abandonment junkies. Other Premies. Feh. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 10:32:18 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Memories of yesteryear Message: Something about CD's literary style reminds me of a robot. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 13:00:20 (EST)
Poster: same as it Email: bb To: And On Anand Ji Subject: ever was (Re: Memories of yesteryear) Message: Don't forget your natural bouyancy and sense of fun that you have retained even to today. You chose a saluteing arena to get a fresh immersion in same age men and get a fresh start again. You floated on top there also. You chose freedom of time and pursued your interests at your liesure for years. You made the slum smell sweet somehow. You abandoned those who would imprison you again and again. Kept at an arms-length those that wanted to direct your life. If things seem like they are closing in some now, I am sure you will find your way to alter something and you will find any new interests that are around the corner. You might be surrounded by abandonment junkies but your track record is that YOU have always been self propelled and even the ashram couldn't crush you, they had to spit your freedom out. The military and your family couldnt crush you and the low lifes in your environment went unjudged in your resiliance. Maybe some change is calling but you are one who needs no role model. You listen to your different drum. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 13:53:54 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: And On Anand Ji Subject: Re: Memories of yesteryear Message: Interesting point there. I had already received K and well into it before I had even heard M's satsang, let alone seen him. Glen Whittaker, David Thorpe, Sandy Collier and a host of other premies giving satsang was what influenced me along the path, for more than Maharaji. The Anand Band in Saint Peter's church hall in north London was more of an influence than most of us realised. The house I lived in then had Julia plus Al Spooner living there. Al was a jazz trumpet player in Boley Ji's band. Knowing such great people was a major influence on my life with Maharaji. It seems they're all dead now. I know Al died of an asthma attack. In the evenings I would meditate after work and would often hear Julia's sweet voice singing from another room. Maharaji had us all in the palm of his hand then. We would do anything for him. He lost it somewhere along the way. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 14:59:02 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: same as it Subject: Re: ever was (Re: Memories of yesteryear) Message: Don't forget your natural bouyancy and sense of fun that you have retained even to today. Thanks, Bill. Everything I write today is sounding like sat sang. Feh. That's sat like hat, not sat like hot. Sotsong. A sot's song. :) When I was in the US Air Force in 1982, I bought a Triumph Bonneville 650 motorcycle, and, having read Carlos Casteneda, I rode it cross-eyed; steering toward the middle of the two sets of double yellow lines diverging from a false middle and sloping upward from opposite sides. Instead of trusting what I was seeing, I had to trust how it felt: balanced, but not correct. That was on Perimeter Road, lined with cornfields. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 15:09:50 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: David Subject: Re: Memories of yesteryear Message: Interesting point there. I had already received K and well into it before I had even heard M's satsang, let alone seen him. Glen Whittaker, David Thorpe, Sandy Collier and a host of other premies giving satsang was what influenced me along the path, for more than Maharaji. The Anand Band in Saint Peter's church hall in north London was more of an influence than most of us realised. The house I lived in then had Julia plus Al Spooner living there. Al was a jazz trumpet player in Boley Ji's band. Knowing such great people was a major influence on my life with Maharaji. It seems they're all dead now. I know Al died of an asthma attack. In the evenings I would meditate after work and would often hear Julia's sweet voice singing from another room. Maharaji had us all in the palm of his hand then. We would do anything for him. He lost it somewhere along the way. Somebody played (on an old monaural 3-inch speaker'd audio casette deck with the piano-keys transport- operation levers) I found out how round and round we go-o. there's a light in you there's a light in me, too Guru Maharaj Ji will show you Guru Maharaj Ji will show you. Very haunting, very beautiful. I'd be surprised to learn this wasn't the same woman singing that song. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 15:10:03 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: And On Anand Ji Subject: Re: ever was (Re: Memories of yesteryear) Message: AOA: Regarding: When I was in the US Air Force in 1982, I bought a Triumph Bonneville 650 motorcycle, and, having read Carlos Casteneda, I rode it cross-eyed; steering toward the middle of the two sets of double yellow lines diverging from a false middle and sloping upward from opposite sides. Instead of trusting what I was seeing, I had to trust how it felt: balanced, but not correct. Interesting you should mention that. I used to ride a scooter when I lived in LA and onec rode up to the Camarillo area to visit Carlos Cantenada. I remember finding out where he lived, and I was surprised that he lived in a completely unimposing tract house. He was away when I knocked on the door, so the only person I saw was his hispanic housekeeper. Seems like there were kids in the house too. Goofy trip. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 15:17:06 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji Email: aoa To: Scott T. Subject: Re: ever was (Re: Memories of yesteryear) Message: AOA: Regarding: When I was in the US Air Force in 1982, I bought a Triumph Bonneville 650 motorcycle, and, having read Carlos Casteneda, I rode it cross-eyed; steering toward the middle of the two sets of double yellow lines diverging from a false middle and sloping upward from opposite sides. Instead of trusting what I was seeing, I had to trust how it felt: balanced, but not correct. Interesting you should mention that. I used to ride a scooter when I lived in LA and onec rode up to the Camarillo area to visit Carlos Cantenada. I remember finding out where he lived, and I was surprised that he lived in a completely unimposing tract house. He was away when I knocked on the door, so the only person I saw was his hispanic housekeeper. Seems like there were kids in the house too. Goofy trip. -Scott I think Carlos was a bit of a "beat me, hurt me, make me feel cheap! -- but respect me in the morning" kind of guy -- an abuse survivor. I mean, the stuph he wrote into the books, and the slant he put on things. Talk about rationalizing others' unacceptable behaviors! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 15:22:54 (EST)
Poster: kennedy kingston's syckick hodline Email: aoa: gee! To: And On Anand Ji Subject: Re: ever was (Re: Memories of yesteryear) Message: Ask not what your country can do for you! Ask what you can do for your country! -JFK (just for kicks) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 16:04:45 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: John K. Subject: Re: Memories of yesteryear Message: Yeah, I picked it up from King Crimson Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 16:04:55 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: John K. Subject: Re: Memories of yesteryear Message: Something about CD's literary style reminds me of a robot. Yeah, I picked it up from King Crimson Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 16:08:46 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: CD Subject: Way off topic (Re: Memories of yesteryear) Message: Something about CD's literary style reminds me of a robot. Yeah, I picked it up from King Crimson Robert Fripp, Dudes!!!! Robert Fripp!!!!!! Now there's a guy who can play guitar and mellotron! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 20:15:43 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: And On Anand Ji Subject: Re: Memories of yesteryear Message: Yes that was Julia Howe. I had a cassette of her songs which she gave me and guess what? I can't find it now. For the past two days the words of "Spread this Knowledge" have been going through my head and now I've remembered them all. Any new premies who are led to believe that Maharaji did not present himself as the Lord of all, come to spread knowledge to all of his creation should listen to the words of that song: Spread this knowledge to every land, To tell them our Lord is here, Then they'll all come to his lotus feet, for their true selves to appear. When confusion has gone from your mind, And there's no shadow following you, Then you will know sat chit anand, You'll know love is true. And when the golden age is here, And there's no darkness in this world, Guru Maharaji will smile everywhere, And true love will appear... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Feb 24, 1998 at 21:55:29 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: David Subject: Re: Memories of yesteryear Message: >When confusion has gone from your mind, And there's no shadow following you, Then you will know sat chit anand, You'll know love is true. Very good David. King of Kings was another good song on the first album. "And the truth that were all brothers and sisters ..." Back To Index -:- Top of Index |