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Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum II Archive #
4 |
From:
Jan 21, 1998 |
To:
Feb 4, 1998 |
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Of:
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JW -:- Maharaji the Violent/Sadist -:- Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 01:40:11 (EST)
___John K. -:- Re: Maharaji the Violent/Sadist -:- Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 10:12:19 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Maharaji the Violent/Sadist -:- Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 12:46:25 (EST)
___Joy -:- Re: Maharaji the Violent/Sadist -:- Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 13:12:37 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Maharaji the Violent/Sadist -:- Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 17:44:32 (EST)
___op -:- Re: Maharaji the Violent/Sadist -:- Sat, Jan 24, 1998 at 01:12:38 (EST)
___Anon -:- Re: Maharaji the Violent/Sadist -:- Sat, Jan 24, 1998 at 15:52:43 (EST)
___op -:- Re: Maharaji the Violent/Sadist -:- Sun, Jan 25, 1998 at 03:23:25 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Maharaji the Violent/Sadist -:- Sun, Jan 25, 1998 at 22:42:46 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Maharaji the Violent/Sadist -:- Sun, Jan 25, 1998 at 22:47:48 (EST)
Brian -:- John Hand -:- Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 21:15:53 (EST)
___StephenB -:- Re: John Hand -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 00:13:06 (EST)
Not thick like u lot -:- I want to slap u all with wet fish -:- Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 16:21:35 (EST)
___@@@@@rrggghhhh!!! -:- Re: I want to slap u all with wet fish -:- Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 17:55:03 (EST)
___Where does the line start? -:- Re: I want to slap u all with wet fish -:- Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 18:31:28 (EST)
___remove us from -:- your bookmarks -:- Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 19:16:31 (EST)
Blue Aquariu -:- we are good at being sheep -:- Wed, Jan 21, 1998 at 21:23:20 (EST)
___Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Wed, Jan 21, 1998 at 22:10:49 (EST)
___M the P -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Wed, Jan 21, 1998 at 22:13:40 (EST)
___ Brian -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Wed, Jan 21, 1998 at 22:17:21 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Wed, Jan 21, 1998 at 22:18:54 (EST)
___Joy -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 13:32:07 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 14:31:55 (EST)
___bftb -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 14:41:42 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 15:30:40 (EST)
___John K. -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 15:33:51 (EST)
___Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 17:54:49 (EST)
___eyeball -:- to eyeball -:- Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 20:06:18 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 01:28:19 (EST)
___Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 01:36:24 (EST)
___premie -:- bands -:- Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 11:08:43 (EST)
___John K. -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 11:11:20 (EST)
___bftb -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 11:23:55 (EST)
___John K. -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 11:49:22 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 13:03:26 (EST)
___bftb -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 14:52:47 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 17:49:51 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: bands -:- Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 23:34:55 (EST)
___String man -:- cd -:- Sat, Jan 24, 1998 at 04:57:04 (EST)
___Joy -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Sat, Jan 24, 1998 at 13:46:12 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Sat, Jan 24, 1998 at 15:44:34 (EST)
___book -:- deal? -:- Sat, Jan 24, 1998 at 16:58:36 (EST)
___op -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Sun, Jan 25, 1998 at 03:26:54 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: we are good at being sheep -:- Mon, Jan 26, 1998 at 12:42:21 (EST)
Brian -:- Forum Reset -:- Wed, Jan 21, 1998 at 07:38:01 (EST)
___op -:- Re: Forum Reset -:- Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 21:37:05 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: Forum Reset -:- Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 22:56:00 (EST)
___Educate me -:- Re: Forum Reset -:- Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 23:17:26 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: Forum Reset -:- Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 09:04:25 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Forum Reset -:- Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 09:24:51 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: Forum Reset -:- Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 13:22:13 (EST)
Date: Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 01:40:11 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji the Violent/Sadist
Message:
Does anyone else recall these stories, both of which were told to me, or in satsang, by someone who was actually there and witnessed them personally?
One time Guru Maharaj Ji forced Bihari to get into a tub or water on the roof of the ashram in Kansas City one night in the middle of the winter and then laughed when Bihari shivered.
Another story was when someone at the Malibu palacial residence was training his dogs and was wearing a suit that protects from dog bites. Anyhow Maharaji made the guy stand still, while he shot a gun at him and laughed. Apparently, the bullets did not actually penetrate the suit, but the shots were very painful.
Both of these stories were told in the "lila" mentality in that they demonstrated the total trust you had to have in Maharaji to surrender to him 100% as he was demanding, and as was your obligation as a devotee of the perfect master.
I also heard stories of how Maharaji terrorized people who worked on the plane and/or planned programs, and of course, there were those initiator training programs that sounded like living hells.
Has anyone else heard these or similar stories?
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Date: Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 10:12:19 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Maharaji the Violent/Sadist
Message:
Don't remember those stories, but Joe, what about this logic:
God = creator of an existence which is filled with pain
God = sadist since God is creating an existence which brings about pain.
Now, and I swear this is the train of thought that I had when I was a devotee of the guru:
the guru is the superior power in person; therefore, the guru is allowed to do whatever he wants eg. have sadistic tendencies.
Also, I remember hearing in satsang stories of gmj getting angry or 'playing' with devotees by putting them in physical danger and that those premies were considered the luckiest people on the planet because gmj was showing them so much love (attention).
Perhaps you are reading too much into it though. I don't think it indicates that gmj is 'evil' or in some heightened state of sadism. The more I think about it, the more I think their (meaning the guru and family) frame of reference for their existence has got to be totally skewered, and in a way they are dysfunctional human beings.
Think of Raja ji. I think he's a good example because he seemed totally average to me. I never got the sense (and maybe that was just me) in listening to him talk that he had anything interesting to say. In other words he sounded to me like he was just repeating what he had heard and what he thought was appropriate to say.
Nevertheless, from day one he was worshipped (since I am assuming we got all this holy family jazz from the situation in India); from day one he had people pranaming/bowing down to him, showing him the utmost respect. How can anyone expect him to turn out normal?
And the same goes for his little brother except worse because at age eight he stopped being just a part of the 'holy family' but the BIG CHEESE himself.
I find it fascinating to imagine what that would do to one's ego, self-esteem, expectations in personal relationships etc.
I would think eventually there would be a price to pay, but maybe not as long as there are people willing to worship.
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Date: Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 12:46:25 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email: joger02@aol.com
To: John K.
Subject: Re: Maharaji the Violent/Sadist
Message:
Don't remember those stories, but Joe, what about this logic:
God = creator of an existence which is filled with pain
God = sadist since God is creating an existence which brings about pain.
Now, and I swear this is the train of thought that I had when I was a devotee of the guru:
the guru is the superior power in person; therefore, the guru is allowed to do whatever he wants eg. have sadistic tendencies.
Also, I remember hearing in satsang stories of gmj getting angry or 'playing' with devotees by putting them in physical danger and that those premies were considered the luckiest people on the planet because gmj was showing them so much love (attention).
Perhaps you are reading too much into it though. I don't think it indicates that gmj is 'evil' or in some heightened state of sadism. The more I think about it, the more I think their (meaning the guru and family) frame of reference for their existence has got to be totally skewered, and in a way they are dysfunctional human beings.
Think of Raja ji. I think he's a good example because he seemed totally average to me. I never got the sense (and maybe that was just me) in listening to him talk that he had anything interesting to say. In other words he sounded to me like he was just repeating what he had heard and what he thought was appropriate to say.
Nevertheless, from day one he was worshipped (since I am assuming we got all this holy family jazz from the situation in India); from day one he had people pranaming/bowing down to him, showing him the utmost respect. How can anyone expect him to turn out normal?
And the same goes for his little brother except worse because at age eight he stopped being just a part of the 'holy family' but the BIG CHEESE himself.
I find it fascinating to imagine what that would do to one's ego, self-esteem, expectations in personal relationships etc.
I would think eventually there would be a price to pay, but maybe not as long as there are people willing to worship.
Good points, John. If you ask me, I think the personality problems that individuals like Maharaji demonstrate arise from the fact that they have no "check" on their behavior. The devotees are in the mindset that you mentioned -- that whatever Maharaji did was "perfect" and they would do mental gymnastics to figure out some rationalization as to why it was really ultimately to their benefit, despite the obvious evidence to the contrary. I don't think this constitutes "evil" either, I think it just constitutes a very sick situation in which people can get hurt. And I think when Maharaji was younger (kids can be cruel) he could have been a real terror with someone like Bihari, as a child god incarnate and being treated that way, because Bihari who was supposed to be a sort of authority/guardian, but also a devotee.
The lord/devotee situation also allowed for a lot of psychological abuse. When I heard initiators who had gone through one of those Malibu initiator training programs, that's what it appeared Maharaji was doing a lot of the time. I recall several saying they considered suicide during the "program", including Candy McNary (sp?) who said Maharaji was so heavy with them (and she was so vulnerable to him) that she fantasized about going down to the ocean and just wading in and drowning. Of course, despite the fact that she acted like, and probably had, post-traumatic stress syndrome, and appeared to me to be totally freaked out after the experience, she still rationalized that Maharaji was perfect and could treat her any way she wanted, and was doing it all to make her surrender to him more, which she believed was the purpose of her life. Again, a very sick situation, but I can entirely relate because I believed the same crap, and Maharaji repeatedly said as much to us for years.
I remember thinking that as an ashram resident, with an initiator application on file, I needed to do something naughty, like have a sexual affair and get caught, in order to put some black mark on my application, thus saving me from one of those awful programs and becoming a wreck like a lot of those initiators were.
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Date: Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 13:12:37 (EST)
Poster: Joy
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Maharaji the Violent/Sadist
Message:
Joe, I heard one time that GMJ broke Gary Girard's nose. Hadn't heard the one about the gun, though, that's scary. To me it just sounds like a kid who's drunk with power and out of control. If one's treated like a divine god and had his every wish indulged and catered to, and is an immature child at the same time, how else is he going to behave? It's amazing no one got seriously hurt or killed.
But two people almost did, in the Malibu fire -- I forget which year it was, late seventies, when GMJ's residence on the hill in Malibu almost burned down in the Santa Ana winds/fire of that year. Many houses in Malibu were lost and fire engulfed his entire home in huge flames, but two devotees stayed inside to wet everything down, I believe it was Marino and John Miller, but am not sure on that. I remember one of them giving satsang about how they couldn't even touch a wall because it was so hot and if even one spark had gotten in that house it would've instantly been engulfed in flame and they had been protected by the divine Lord, etc. etc.
Now that I'm on the subject here, I also recall being given the "opportunity" to do divine service at the divine residence in Malibu, around 1979, flying all the way from Denver with another group of IHQ premies considered worthy enough. We were SO blissed out! Then when we got there we were put on some sort of work detail clearing the brush on the entire hill around his residence, in the blazing heat, without adequate clothing or hats; we were just given scythe-type instruments and told to go at it and to be careful of black widow spiders, scorpions and rattlesnakes! I lasted about 15 minutes at this divine "service" before losing it and requesting something indoors (not the done thing to do, to request to change your service, you have to be humble and surrender gratefully to whatever task the Lord hands you).
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Date: Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 17:44:32 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Joy
Subject: Re: Maharaji the Violent/Sadist
Message:
Yes, Joy, I posted recently about the Malibu fire. I remember that Maharaji got his big butt out of there, but that two premies remained at the divine residence, prepared to protect every last gold bathroom fixture with their lives. Apparently it was pretty scary for them, but we all attributed the fact that the residence didn't burn up as divine grace. I understand that "the" motorhome did burn up, however; don't know whose grace that was due to.
How did Maharaji break Gary Girard's nose?
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Date: Sat, Jan 24, 1998 at 01:12:38 (EST)
Poster: op
Email:
To: all and sundry
Subject: Re: Maharaji the Violent/Sadist
Message:
Just a few points
M is always very careful & aware of safety - even as far back as India in 71. At Prem Nagar, he was shooting off some fireworks, but when people started to get close to him, he stopped and would not continue until everyone was a safe distance away. At the residence, he would play with a bb gun inside the house, but would never shoot if anyone was anywhere near the direction in which he was shooting. In some areas - where there was possibility of a ricochet - he wouldn't shoot at all or would wait until everyone was out of the room.
At events, he has insisted that during the building stages of preparation EVERYONE wear hard hats, and there is a team of people who concentrate on safety throughout each event. You know that there is always a complete medical team that includes doctors and psychiatrists at all events. He specifies very often that people must get enough rest and food - no one should fry.
But unfortunately you guys (sorry for the generalization, but in this case it's necessary) believe everything you hear as long as it's in negative mode. You really have no idea what happened at the residence unless you can interview someone who was there at the time.
During the fire, M was not in Malibu - he was overseas, so 'his butt' was out of there already. The house may have been hot, but the fire never reached the house. Some trees were singed and it's true that the motorhome was lost, but the premies inside the house were never in that much danger. From my recollection, it was their choice to stay, not a mandate.
As for weeding around the residence: I don't know about 1979, but the same sort of work has been done within the past five years. Anyone who has worked clearing the hill has been asked to bring a hat and a bottle; water is provided, rest breaks are mandatory, there is special rigging for getting up & down the hillside, etc. And those who have gone have known ahead of time exactly what they will be doing.
Whatever has happened between Maharaji and individuals, I think it's their prerogative to speak about it or not. If you want to find out about Gary Girard's nose, why not track him down and ask him?
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Date: Sat, Jan 24, 1998 at 15:52:43 (EST)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: Maharaji the Violent/Sadist
Message:
OP you wrote:
"unfortunately you guys (sorry for the generalization, but in this case it's necessary) believe everything you hear as long as it's in negative mode."
Apology accepted and I agree to some extent.
However I want to point out that all this 'positive mode' versus 'negative mode' is not something that intelligent or really informed people will be phazed by when weighing up facts. Which themselves are quite hard to swallow. I know that. You know that I assume to some extent.
For myself I am concerned that the facts should not be overlooked because those who dare publically present them are necessarily those who are angry and therefore seem to be giving facts a 'negative spin'.
My feeling is that at the end of the day the facts about Maharaji's life, his lifestyle, his attitudes to others, his relationships with women money, power etc etc. should be known. Especially as he demands such a commitment from people who follow his teachings. I don't consider my 'reformed' attitude to Maharaji this to be a negative onet. Just a realistic and wise one. (self-protecting)
Others can make up their own minds given all the facts.
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Date: Sun, Jan 25, 1998 at 03:23:25 (EST)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: Maharaji the Violent/Sadist
Message:
Others can make up their own minds given all the facts.
That makes sense, as long as what you are stating are facts. I'm not going to go into a long diatribe here, but virtually everything on this forum is hearsay, no matter how often you repeat it.
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Date: Sun, Jan 25, 1998 at 22:42:46 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: Maharaji the Violent/Sadist
Message:
Well, OP, again you don't know what you are talking about.
I personally heard from the two guys who were in the residence during the fire and they were absolutely scared to death. I heard it with my own ears.
Anyone who worked on the plane project, including people I personally know who have been PERMANENTLY physically damaged by it, knows that M didn't care much at all about the safety of the premies who worked on it. They worked day and night, sometimes without any sleep. They painted without proper ventillation, and I know one woman who has been permanently physically disabled by the chemicals she used to clean the metals in the cockpit.
And, as we all know who were there, M personally micromanaged that project, he was there almost daily, and it was often he personally who was imposing the unreasonable deadlines that caused much of the problem.
But, again, OP, your memories are only of the brief period in India in 1971 and you don't know any of that crap, so your generalizartions aren't worth much.
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Date: Sun, Jan 25, 1998 at 22:47:48 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: Maharaji the Violent/Sadist
Message:
Others can make up their own minds given all the facts.
That makes sense, as long as what you are stating are facts. I'm not going to go into a long diatribe here, but virtually everything on this forum is hearsay, no matter how often you repeat it.
There you go with that word again, OP. It is NOT hearsay when you saw something yourself, or if a person who was there told you. That is even admissiable in a court of law and is NOT hearsay. The stories I mentioned were either witnessed by me, or were told to me by someone who was there.
Oh, and by the way, it is my recollection that M was not out of the country when the fire happened but went to Raja Ji's house to get away from the danger.
Oh, and yes, I think you relate a lot of hearsay about the suppsed care and concern for safety that M has. Maybe he does, but it's clear from my own experience that he has been somewhat less that consistent in his life in that regard.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 21:15:53 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Everyone
Subject: John Hand
Message:
In the course of revising the web pages for the site, I came across a reference to John Hand leaving the cult at about the same time that Bob Mishler did. I remember John from Race street in Denver.
Does anyone know what happened to him, or where he is? I'd like to talk to him.
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 00:13:06 (EST)
Poster: StephenB
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: John Hand
Message:
Hi
I saw John in Denver about 5 years ago. He was running Colo Free University. They may have changed their name to The Computer Connection or something like that
StephenB
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Date: Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 16:21:35 (EST)
Poster: Not thick like u lot
Email: fishfinger
To: Everyone
Subject: I want to slap u all with wet fish
Message:
.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 17:55:03 (EST)
Poster: @@@@@rrggghhhh!!!
Email: @@@@rrrgghhhh
To: Not thick like u lot
Subject: Re: I want to slap u all with wet fish
Message:
'Not thick like you lot' kindly offers: I want to slap u all with wet fish.
Ohhhhh, you sure know how to attract a man. But which wet fish? Me? I take a size six cod. Slightly grilled is best but they're not easy to get hold of. But anything wet and slappy will do me. I'm not over-fussy. So let me have it big boy. @@@@rrrgghhhhh!!!! Now that feels good. In fact I haven't felt this good since the last time I kissed those wooly white socks. Now that was the cosmic wet fish slap to end all cosmic wet fish slaps.
Time for bed said Zebedeeeeee....
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Date: Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 18:31:28 (EST)
Poster: Where does the line start?
Email:
To: Not thick like u lot
Subject: Re: I want to slap u all with wet fish
Message:
Ummm. Red Snapper, very tasty.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 19:16:31 (EST)
Poster: remove us from
Email: **
To: Where does the line start?
Subject: your bookmarks (Re: I want to slap u all with wet fish)
Message:
No. it's not tasty.
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Date: Wed, Jan 21, 1998 at 21:23:20 (EST)
Poster: Blue Aquariu
Email: **
To: Everyone
Subject: we are good at being sheep
Message:
'The experience of being in Blue Aquarius is
actually the story of the band's relationship
to bhole ji.
'you must understand that bhole ji is not a
conductor-he is the music itself' explains Erica
Anderson, trumpeter. 'He plays us. If we try
to be a musician, we freak out. If we meditate
and let him play through us, it's alright.'
'He's like our father' says one. 'he looks after
us in every way, knows everthing about us, helps
us out when we are freaking out, tears down our ego's with such infinite mercy, and he doesn't
have to say a word, he just looks at us and
his love comes through.'
'A look from bhole ji is like looking into a
mirror of your soul.' said Allen, 'bhole ji
destroys your mind with complete love. A
glance from him tells you where you are at and
where he wants to take you.'
'When he looks at me with such selflessness and
humility,'says another, 'I see all my greed and
pride rising up, and want so much to be pure
to be able to look back.'
'He doesn't care how undevoted you are-he loves
you anyway',said one band member, 'he's destroying
all our faults with such infinite love, such total
campassion, such humility and gentleness- I'm
just amazed everyday with how much he gives to
us.'
'bhole ji teaches how to surrender to guru
maharaj ji', said one. 'He makes everthing else
foolish so that guru maharaj ji is the only
alternative. his life's ambition is to serve
guru maharaj ji, and he's giving us personal,
hand-tailored lessons in devotion by his example.'
'They do it all for him' commented one critic.
'They literally worship the conductor.'
Blue Aquarius, then, is a musical love affair
the lord and his devotees. 'I'm totally in love
with bhole ji' said Erica, 'but thats nowhere near
the love that he gives us. If only I could tell
you...'
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Date: Wed, Jan 21, 1998 at 22:10:49 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: Blue Aquarius;
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
'The experience of being in Blue Aquarius is
actually the story of the band's relationship
to bhole ji.
'you must understand that bhole ji is not a
conductor-he is the music itself' explains Erica
Anderson, trumpeter. 'He plays us. If we try
to be a musician, we freak out. If we meditate
and let him play through us, it's alright.'
'He's like our father' says one. 'he looks after
us in every way, knows everthing about us, helps
us out when we are freaking out, tears down our ego's with such infinite mercy, and he doesn't
have to say a word, he just looks at us and
his love comes through.'
'A look from bhole ji is like looking into a
mirror of your soul.' said Allen, 'bhole ji
destroys your mind with complete love. A
glance from him tells you where you are at and
where he wants to take you.'
'When he looks at me with such selflessness and
humility,'says another, 'I see all my greed and
pride rising up, and want so much to be pure
to be able to look back.'
'He doesn't care how undevoted you are-he loves
you anyway',said one band member, 'he's destroying
all our faults with such infinite love, such total
campassion, such humility and gentleness- I'm
just amazed everyday with how much he gives to
us.'
'bhole ji teaches how to surrender to guru
maharaj ji', said one. 'He makes everthing else
foolish so that guru maharaj ji is the only
alternative. his life's ambition is to serve
guru maharaj ji, and he's giving us personal,
hand-tailored lessons in devotion by his example.'
'They do it all for him' commented one critic.
'They literally worship the conductor.'
Blue Aquarius, then, is a musical love affair
the lord and his devotees. 'I'm totally in love
with bhole ji' said Erica, 'but thats nowhere near
the love that he gives us. If only I could tell
you...'
And it's that love which helped Blue Aquarius win all those Grammys! Well, that and those cool light blue suits!
That passage is an example of how brain-washed those early DLM days were. Where did you find it?
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Date: Wed, Jan 21, 1998 at 22:13:40 (EST)
Poster: M the P
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
Just exactly who's devotees were Blue Aquarius? Big M's or Bhole Ji's?
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Date: Wed, Jan 21, 1998 at 22:17:21 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Blue Aquarius;
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
Send me the original of this along with where it came from, history of it, etc. I love it!!
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Date: Wed, Jan 21, 1998 at 22:18:54 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
Send me the original of this along with where it came from, history of it, etc. I love it!!
And just where would you like it sent, Brian???
Oh... oh, yeah... brian@ex-premie.org
Sheeesh...
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Date: Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 13:32:07 (EST)
Poster: Joy
Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com
To: Blue Aquarius;
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
This was brilliant. He used to be such a big deal in London around the time I received Knowledge there, 1972. He used to conduct Blue Aquarius in a silver sequined suit that would've done Liberace credit. It was something to see, alright. I never spent much time around the "Holy Family", but I thought Bhole Ji was a simpler, more humble soul than Raja Ji, whom I never liked after I saw him kick a premie who was trying to do pranam to him when he came to the head office (where I was the awestruck secretary at the time). Such an arrogant creep. His whole attitude was "get outta my way, you fawning idiot, you're tripping me up". He was no doubt there to collect money from the treasurer for more of his expensive Italian clothes.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 14:31:55 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Blue Aquarius;
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
Blue Aquarius, then, is a musical love affair
the lord and his devotees. 'I'm totally in love
with bhole ji' said Erica, 'but thats nowhere near
the love that he gives us. If only I could tell
you...'
By the way. Erica Anderson is the sister of Kurt Anderson who is a writer for The New Yorker and was supposed to be writing an article about what crazed cult members Erica, and also his brother were in the 70s and early 80s, but that when Maharaji toned things down in the mid-to-late 80s and the ashrams closed, he felt he sort of got his brother and sister back from the cult, although I understand they are still at least tacitly into Maharaji.
Kurt said he quoted me extensively in his article, but I check my issued every time it arrives and I haven't seen it published yet.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 14:41:42 (EST)
Poster: bftb
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
I saw Kurt Anderson on 'nightline' when sonny bono died.He was a guest along with brilliant film director John Waters.
If i have the right kurt anderson;he also wrote a (1981?)a book called"the real thing" in which he picks 'the real thing' in various categories.One category is gurus and he picks M as 'the real thing' when it comes to gurus.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 15:30:40 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
None of you people seem to have liked any of the music.
A couple of the songs from the album were played in Long Beach.
They sounded pretty good.
Yes, I know, thats not the point.
You are only after stuff that can promote the negative agenda.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 15:33:51 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: Joy
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
So what are all these people doing now, like Raja Ji and his wife, did they have kids?
I remember Raja ji as being a real non-entity. Like when he gave satsang, which was rare, it was just so uninteresting, practicaly anyone was better to listen to than him.
In my oh so humble opinion, of course.
Yeah, those italian clothes. Wasn't he just the stereo-typical playboy? Riding on the coattails of his younger brother who just happens to be worshipped as zeus, so instantly he also has god status. A lesser god for sure, but still a god who gets to play in the clouds. He gets all the fun without any of the responsibility.
What a wierd life to live, huh?
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Date: Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 17:54:49 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: CD
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
None of you people seem to have liked any of the music.
A couple of the songs from the album were played in Long Beach.
They sounded pretty good.
Yes, I know, thats not the point.
You are only after stuff that can promote the negative agenda.
Well, CD, I'll admit that I really didn't like any of the devotional music when I was a Premie, but I do not doubt the sincerity of those who made it. It's just that some of it was similar to Christian stuff with the name "Maharaji" substituted for "Jesus." Listen to that Anand band album; it's too obvious. Too much of it was really sappy, too, but that is usually the nature of devotional music; one is sending a message, not trying to write a great song. I argued all the time with Premies about music. And, lucky for me, just as I left DLM, the Punk thang broke out, and I was happy! I don't want to promote the negative agenda as much as I want to promote good music, which, of course, is any thing that I like! :-)
Regards,
Michael
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Date: Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 20:06:18 (EST)
Poster: eyeball
Email: **
To: !!
Subject: to eyeball (Re: we are good at being sheep)
Message:
I loved the music.
I am not sure I hate it now.
I just find the sentences in the songs to be, well,
suggestive of a reality that doesn't exist the
way it's presented.
The reason it stuck out for me is a few reasons;
one of them is that I can relate to the whole experience
of starry eyed vision. I (and they) kindly and
enthusiastically granted divinity to anyone even
remotely officially part of the mission.
I can certainly see how much I gave elevated status to
every instructor, family member, indian missionary,
dlm president, community co-ordinator, service manager,
housemother, ANYONE.
I guess we all did.
mata ji and her two boys fell from heaven first.
and since maharaj ji was clearly mad at them, it was still
explained by mata ji as 'family lila' and for me just to
continue. This after the breakup.
So they were still in some elevated status for me.
Mishler obviously became confused but Bill Patterson
replaced him as the ideal and clearly devoted super-
premie. To sink bill patterson must truly have taken
a lot. He was up close and personal during the late
seventies and early eighties and he was certainly
challenged to the extreme. maharaj ji was at the peak
of his very demanding lord era. Just the fact that
bill paterson crashed and burned should have been
enough to give me some sort of wake up call. But no
of course not. I am mr. true blue to the end last devotee
on earth type. My personal aspirant program was run
by Rehka Dasi Loomba who was a Krishna devotee before
she became mata ji's personal servant. Rehka would
talk to me for four or five hours straight. By the time
I made to to millenium as an aspirant I was so solidly
devoted that the indian instructor said 'what do you
want?' and I said 'to be the humble servant of satguru'.
I was made in the mold of the blue aquarius premies.
I was taken to the place where bhole ji was practicing
with his band and we went in and he looked at me in the
eyes and tried to stare me down I guess, I didn't know who
he was and I was just innocently looking back and I
stared him down I guess. He said to security that the
people who came in had to leave because they were not
giving him proper respect.
Believe it or not, I didn't think it was about me, I
didn't know who he was. Another guy with us was
dissapointed and HE made the connection because he saw it
happen.
I guess I didn't feel the divine love because I had
no programming that he was something 'special'
Apparently maharaji didn't feel bhole ji was so
special either, or he wouldn't have blown him off for
18 years. Or more. I only say 18 because they saw each
other at moms' funeral after 18, not to assume they started
being friends again or anything.
Sure, I was big time dissappointed in everybody right
down the line, everybody, even raja ji fell away into
partying in NY for years. Dateing premies-HEy!
I REMEMBER! My wife! Raja ji made a move on my
wife! when she was at a asperant program that maharaji
was about to attend. She was repulsed and said he was so
full of himself.
good grief.
It's just been one challenge against my devotion
after another. Finally, maharaji's own words killed
me off.
It is one thing to lose the easter bunny and santa
and the rest in life, and as a kid you find out the
policemen and the priest are corrupt, the president (nixon),
on and on. The lord comes and it's a wave of divinity
and hope and all the surrounding players crash and
finally even the lord. WOW.
for me it's ok now I guess.
there is a friend power, hope Jim is wrong.
Now that would be REALLY the last straw if Jim was
right about conciousness. But, logically, he ain't.
So hooray for the fact that there IS a bottom line.
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Date: Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 01:28:19 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email: joger02@aol.com
To: bftb
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
I saw Kurt Anderson on 'nightline' when sonny bono died.He was a guest along with brilliant film director John Waters.
If i have the right kurt anderson;he also wrote a (1981?)a book called'the real thing' in which he picks 'the real thing' in various categories.One category is gurus and he picks M as 'the real thing' when it comes to gurus.
I don't know if Kurt was on Nightline to talk about Sonny Bono, but I wouldn't be surprised since most of his articles I have read in the New Yorker are on popular culture, Hollywood, TV, and the like.
I also don't know if he wrote the book you mentioned, but from my conversations with him, he thinks, and always has, that Maharaji is a total fraud and thought his brother and sister were nuts to be involved with him. They proselytized him endlessly which he found very annoying. So, I don't think he would call Maharaji a "real" anything except a "real" charlatan.
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Date: Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 01:36:24 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: Blue Aquarius;
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
I've got a question for all the musicians on this site: did you play in Premie bands? If so, what was it like? I didn't play in any Premie bands because, as I said earlier, I really didn't like much of the devotional music, although, while an aspirant, I did play my recorder at Satsang. Was it fun to play in a Premie Band?
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Date: Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 11:08:43 (EST)
Poster: premie
Email: **
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: bands (Re: we are good at being sheep)
Message:
I played bass in a premie band.
I really play just acoustic guitar and flatpick.
But they needed a bass so...
I usually stayed out of the services where you were assigned
a long term role but in this case I did it and I have
said it before but hartford was intensely judgemental.
The community coordinators were real gossips and
that attitude played havoc with the band. The singers
were part of the 'UPPER DUST' as I would call them.
The guitarist was good so I had fun with him and the
organist. I remember in 74 there was a jazz fusion
premie band that played in new haven but no one knew
how to clap. It was the bholeshri era and so that became
wierd at that concert. micheal bolton (bolotin) used
to play also and he sounded just as loud. really, he was
just the same as now, he did slow ballad devotional stuff
to you know who.
Jonn Serrie, who's CD's you can find in the new age
instumental section of any music store is from here also.
He makes really great synthesizer music and has made
quite a name for himself in that genre.
He also played in the flute band 'emerald web'
The girl who sang on the lord of the universe album
was from conn. also. and one foundation singer Kim Fields
lived here during the last 12 years but she might have moved
out west in the mid to late 90's.
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Date: Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 11:11:20 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: CD
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
Hey CD! Who said anything about not liking the music? The main thrust or message of this thread was the worship of bhole ji by the band members. Since bhole ji was the brother of god, he became a god himself.
At least that is what I am discussing, not whether the music was any good which in my opinion is irrelevant. I think maybe you are being the dreaded "N" word (negative!) by even mentioning the dreaded "N" word (negative!).
Also, I recommend not being so deathly afraid of "negativity". Fear, wariness, caution, mistrust, skepticism, all could be thought of as being "negative" in that they are not an "open" state of mind. But anyone who has kids knows that it is very unhealthy to NOT possess a good dose of those negative mental attituds - fear, mistrust, caution, wariness, skepticism.
Also, do you mean they are still playing those songs? I have become somewhat of a musical snob. I HATE classic rock which I think is how I would term songs from that era. Onward and upward is what I say, don't look back, make it new, etc.
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Date: Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 11:23:55 (EST)
Poster: bftb
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
Hey jw,
It was him on nightline fer shure.The kurt who wrote the book spelled his surname andersEn with an e not an o.The book is somewhat tongue in cheek and if memory serves me the section on M ended with the words:"don't call us,he'll call you"-Amazon lists it as out of print and hard to get although they'll try and track down a used copy for you.Funny thing I've noticed is that most books that have any mention of M are real tough to find or out of print-even the new yorker piece doesn't seem to want to print.He works in mysterious ways doesn't he?
off topic:Did you ever try that brita water filter I reccommended to you since you were having trouble with your nsa one?
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Date: Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 11:49:22 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: bftb
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
Speaking of the New Yorker, in the 80's they had a great story about the guru in oregon, forget his name, he eventually was kicked out of the country. That story was a real shocker to me because the descriptions of the guru going by in his car and the devotees all getting blissed out was so exactly like my experience.
I like the articles in the New Yorker because for the most part they are not biased, they simply report the events. I think there is another possibility that gmj has been able to keep a low profile in the 80's and 90's (remember he did not have a low profile in the 70's, he got a lot of press) - and that reason is he is not doing or saying anything all that interesting. He is not spraying colored water on his devotees in a stadium in Miami for instance.
Actualy maybe he is, how the hell do I know if he is or not. Does anyone know if they still celebrate Holi?
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Date: Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 13:03:26 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: bftb
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
Hey jw,
It was him on nightline fer shure.The kurt who wrote the book spelled his surname andersEn with an e not an o.The book is somewhat tongue in cheek and if memory serves me the section on M ended with the words:'don't call us,he'll call you'-Amazon lists it as out of print and hard to get although they'll try and track down a used copy for you.Funny thing I've noticed is that most books that have any mention of M are real tough to find or out of print-even the new yorker piece doesn't seem to want to print.He works in mysterious ways doesn't he?
off topic:Did you ever try that brita water filter I reccommended to you since you were having trouble with your nsa one?
Kurt (and his brother and sister obviously) do spell the last name "Andersen," (with an e and not an o) so that might be the same person. Yes, there isn't much written about M these days, and I think he likes it that way. That Australian newspaper article was an exception. I think the media just considers him a has-been, you know, some relic from the hippie days of the 70s.
I haven't tried Brita, but I know people who have and they seem to like them. I know a few people who are HIV+ and/or have AIDS and use the filters because they are so concerned about bacterial infections with a compromised immune system.
But actually, here in San Francisco, we have some of the purist tap water in the world, since it comes from Sierra snow-melt. I only got the NSA filter, because there already was one in the house I bought, and it was easier just to replace it rather than replumb the drinking-water tap. The first two NSA replacements leaked. But NSA did get me new ones and the current one has been in place for a few months and so far so good. It was only later that I discovered that there was some sort of connection between NSA and M.
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Date: Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 14:52:47 (EST)
Poster: bftb
Email:
To: John K.
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
The guru kicked out of oregon was the Bhagwan shree rajneesh.He died in India a few years later.You may have seen his sanyasins/followers around as they are identifiable(at least when he was alive they used to be)by the fact that they wear all red/burgandy/(now more pink/purple)clothing(if I'm not mistaken rajneesh suggested his followers wear these colors so as to be 'dressed in the colors of the rising sun' or something like that) and often wear(wore) a big string of wooden beads as a necklace.
His massive, highly lucrative business has survived him and he is now posthumously referred to as 'Osho'.Apparently there are now several 'osho centres/retreats' operating in different parts of the world.
I think a search in alta vista or yahoo under keyword:'osho' should lead to some interesting stuff.(at least they had a web presence last time I checked well over a year ago.)
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Date: Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 17:49:51 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: bftb
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
The guru kicked out of oregon was the Bhagwan shree rajneesh.He died in India a few years later.You may have seen his sanyasins/followers around as they are identifiable(at least when he was alive they used to be)by the fact that they wear all red/burgandy/(now more pink/purple)clothing(if I'm not mistaken rajneesh suggested his followers wear these colors so as to be 'dressed in the colors of the rising sun' or something like that) and often wear(wore) a big string of wooden beads as a necklace.
His massive, highly lucrative business has survived him and he is now posthumously referred to as 'Osho'.Apparently there are now several 'osho centres/retreats' operating in different parts of the world.
I think a search in alta vista or yahoo under keyword:'osho' should lead to some interesting stuff.(at least they had a web presence last time I checked well over a year ago.)
Yes, Marin County in California, specifically Mill Valley, used to be filled with Rajneeshis wearing those orange clothes. It was an even more "credit-card-cult" than DLM.
Joy, do you recall when we were in the audience for that television show and that spokesperson for Rajneesh (Ma Anan Shila) was on the show, swearing and carrying on endlessly. I guess she went to jail.
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Date: Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 23:34:55 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: premie
Subject: Re: bands (Re: we are good at being sheep)
Message:
Burke?
You a flatpicker?
Woody, old Dylan and Doc Watson?
I sold my 018 in the premie give-away days.
A Richebacher 12 string electric too ($20).
CD
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Date: Sat, Jan 24, 1998 at 04:57:04 (EST)
Poster: String man
Email: **
To: CD
Subject: cd (Re: we are good at being sheep)
Message:
You nailed it,
doc watson.
I had an album; doc watson, flatt and scruggs, strictly
instrumental. I used to play with that at least an hour a
day.
I went to a tag sale and found a 'midget guitar'.
It was 20 bucks and so I bought it. Turned out to be a
Gibson 1928 mandolin that was a museum piece.
Of course it got sold during a fund raising drive for
the lord.
Today's price would be about 45,000.
I used to play that too.
Actually I found that the way to riff was to just feel
your life and have a vision, or an imagination, a dream,
and let the music, I mean, let bhole ji come through.
If I was going to play something I already knew in advance,
then I would sort of sing it to myself, be right there
with it adding subtlety.
But really I am a spontanious riffer.
Sometimes people would go- play that again! and I would go
I wish I could but I don't even know what I played.
You know all about that stuff I'm sure.
I dont know ANY songs by anyone else.
And, all my songs are (of course) devotional and no one
has heard them. Except one great finger picking number
that I made for aspirants.
I built everything around him.
I'm kind of that one master dog type. Of course I guess
I am not without a master, I still have my wife- and her
alchoholic shrew-tongued mother has dropped her
disability on our lap and she lives here too. When my wife
kicks the bucket, grandma will be smoothly moved elsewhere.
Boy, you must have had some good fingers to play a
twelve string. They sure sound good but what a challenge.
That 018 is actually a martin D18 right?
My finger picking style is unique I'll bet. It's bright
and upbeat and can rock along. And a bouncing rolling
strum that I developed during the airplane project in
miami. A song called 707 nailed it.
What do I do? change the lyrics? I haven't tried playing
in a while and all the guitar stuff is pure devotional.
This is such an unending alteration. What the hell would
John or luke or mark do? I guess I will just- I don't
know, make them comedy numbers? Change the lyrics and
submit them to promise keepers? Send a tape to sun myung
moon. Maharaji would probabaly like them but he said
in 96 -don't send me tapes of your music, your symphonies,
I have symphonies of my own to listen to- or something
like that- remember when he went through his big
making music phase? when he really started it? That was
early 90's. he said at the time, -I DO have music in me.
He was referring to the ability to make music. It was
a revelation for him. Maybe you missed those vidoes.
So, did you get to the pussy patch in NYC?
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Date: Sat, Jan 24, 1998 at 13:46:12 (EST)
Poster: Joy
Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com
To: JW
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
The guru kicked out of oregon was the Bhagwan shree rajneesh.He died in India a few years later.You may have seen his sanyasins/followers around as they are identifiable(at least when he was alive they used to be)by the fact that they wear all red/burgandy/(now more pink/purple)clothing(if I'm not mistaken rajneesh suggested his followers wear these colors so as to be 'dressed in the colors of the rising sun' or something like that) and often wear(wore) a big string of wooden beads as a necklace.
His massive, highly lucrative business has survived him and he is now posthumously referred to as 'Osho'.Apparently there are now several 'osho centres/retreats' operating in different parts of the world.
I think a search in alta vista or yahoo under keyword:'osho' should lead to some interesting stuff.(at least they had a web presence last time I checked well over a year ago.)
Yes, Marin County in California, specifically Mill Valley, used to be filled with Rajneeshis wearing those orange clothes. It was an even more 'credit-card-cult' than DLM.
Joy, do you recall when we were in the audience for that television show and that spokesperson for Rajneesh (Ma Anan Shila) was on the show, swearing and carrying on endlessly. I guess she went to jail.
Yes Joe, I remember that Ma Anand Sheela (how do you remember all this stuff??). She was the Rajneesh equivalent of Bill Patterson, I guess, and wore the same color of hot pink but it was a leather pantsuit, and she was dripping with many diamonds. So much for a sanyassin (renunciate). Jail is the appropriate place for her, as I believe she engineered several poisonings of devotees not suited to her taste. At least M didn't have that much high-level skullduggery around him (that we know about), and hearing about some of these other groups makes me glad I was into M and not them, in retrospect. (Though of course I'm not glad about it, just for comparison's sake I'm glad it was M and not, say, the Moonies or Rajneesh. That would've been even more embarrassing on the resume.)
To answer the question re Raja Ji: I have no idea where he is or what he's doing now. His ex-wife was a German model named Claudia Littman, and they had two children, both girls, whose names I don't recall. Those girls must be about the same age as Daya and Wadi (what a ridiculous name) are now. I had heard a rumor that Claudia hates GMJ and has tried to write an "expose" book but it's not been printed. I wonder if she's scared to have it printed, or if she's been paid off, or what? Anyone got any info on this? My own personal theory is that, what with Raja Ji's mafia connections and his continuing loyalty to M, she's probably frightened for her and her children's safety and has decided to lay low. Anyone out there know Claudia? Can we get her to talk?
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Date: Sat, Jan 24, 1998 at 15:44:34 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: String Man
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
> You nailed it, doc watson.
Burke,
I may be smarter than you realize - g.
The 018 was the very small Martin model.
I now have a M36 and 4 electrics.
The 12 string was easy on the fingers because it was an electric.
I used to play a lot of old Dylan stuff.
And of course Mike Ns "Daisies" - g - and other premie songs.
So you have the Drifting cassette?
The song "Magic of Love" sounds quite good with the CD version on a good stereo.
It sounds real nice on the JBL stereo in my T-Bird.
Probably Daya's best singing effort to date.
Send me some Email and we can discuss this music stuff since the topic doesn't really fit in with what this web site is about.
Email for CD: webmaster@cdickey.com
> So, did you get to the pussy patch in NYC?
Haven't been back to NYC yet. Maybe later this year.
I'll meet you there - g!
Regards,
CD
www.cdickey.com
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Date: Sat, Jan 24, 1998 at 16:58:36 (EST)
Poster: book
Email: **
To: Joy
Subject: deal? (Re: we are good at being sheep)
Message:
Interesting point about claudia's book.
In early 96 maharaji was in NY and the second part of
the event was a meeting. On the charts I saw the
expenditures of the legal dept and it was over
one million. I thought what the heck is the legal
dept. expense? Earlier that winter maharji said he
had one blow that he didn't know one could come from
that angle. I wondered at the time what that might be
and in 96 after hearing about claudia's book, I
thought it might have been a payoff.
That rajneesh girl wasn't the equivelant of
bill patterson, he was stellar. Really a great guy
and super disiplined and true. I don't think there are
any bad bill patterson stories, he had a clean heart.
The fact that he is gone is very revealing.
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Date: Sun, Jan 25, 1998 at 03:26:54 (EST)
Poster: op
Email:
To: String man
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
Maharaji would probabaly like them but he said
in 96 -don't send me tapes of your music, your symphonies,
I have symphonies of my own to listen to- or something
like that- remember when he went through his big
making music phase? when he really started it? That was
early 90's. he said at the time, -I DO have music in me.
He was referring to the ability to make music. It was
a revelation for him.
Hi Bill:
So I guess you never got to hear him play the piano in the 70s? The first time he said he was about to play, I thought - yeah, he'll play the piano the way he types (100 words a minute, but no one could understand what he had typed).
Surprise, surprise. He really DOES play the piano. So I don't think he found out that there is music in him in 96.
As for new music - I know of at least two situations where tapes were sent to him and those people have been on the stage in Long Beach. Then there are those who were called to work with him on the tapes - they now live in Malibu and are seldom seen except behind their instruments at events.
So don't throw away your old lyrics yet...
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Date: Mon, Jan 26, 1998 at 12:42:21 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Joy
Subject: Re: we are good at being sheep
Message:
Well, at least the Rajneeshis were encouraged to have SEX! This appears as a distinct advantage to someone who followed Maharaji's agya and was celibate for my entire 20s.
Also, all cults, including Maharaji's look really weird from the outside, but I think there are many more similarities than differences between, say, DLM and the Moonies. Just the trappings are different. Plus, I think there always were a lot more Moonies than there ever were premies, and the Moonies seemed to be better at putting businesses together than M ever was. Hence the financial and tax difficulties became more apparent.
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Date: Wed, Jan 21, 1998 at 07:38:01 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Forum Reset
Message:
Okay, it's manageable again :)
Remember to reset your visited links. Under Netscape the command is located off of the "Options" menu, "General Preferences", "Appearance", & then "Expire Now" button.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 21:37:05 (EST)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Forum Reset
Message:
Will there be archives of the last two clearings?
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Date: Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 22:56:00 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: op
Subject: Re: Forum Reset
Message:
Will there be archives of the last two clearings?
Right now there are no archives of Forum II available, since I'm up to my ears just revising the site pages. I'll get them available as soon as I can after I get the site changed over. I'm shooting for the end of the weekend to accomplish that part.
I'll try to archive around 300 posts from now on. But I hate how it just kills ongoing threads that may still be being read by someone. Gotta look for a better forum somewhere.
If there's some specific post you were looking for, let me know and I'll do a quick scan of the file (it's a biggie) and email you the post.
BTW, you posted about Bholie, and gave its meaning. Do you have the complete (un-premied) version of the salute and its meaning? I think I just learned the premied version. It went "bowl-yay shree satgurudev maharaj key jay". See, my spelling is a bit off. There really should have been handouts.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 22, 1998 at 23:17:26 (EST)
Poster: Educate me
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Forum Reset
Message:
Okay, it's manageable again :)
Remember to reset your visited links. Under Netscape the command is located off of the 'Options' menu, 'General Preferences', 'Appearance', & then 'Expire Now' button.
What? Why? Should I?
And why are only 20 messages loading and I can't get any more?
Thanks!
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Date: Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 09:04:25 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Educate me
Subject: Re: Forum Reset
Message:
What? Why? Should I?
And why are only 20 messages loading and I can't get any more?
Everytime the database of messages gets to be around 500 or so records, the index of posts page begins to take a LONG time to load into your browser. We reset the Forum at that time - saving the database into an archive and then clearing all the records. It's one of the glitches with this particular forum server - that posts don't just expire after a set number of days, but the database continues to grow.
After a reset, there are no messages to read. Right now (as I write this) there are 24 records (messages) in the database. That's all that you have to select from, but it will soon grow to over 500 and require resetting.
The records are retrieved by the server according to their record number, which starts at 1 each time the database is cleared. The record number is part of the URL sent to the server to retrieve that particular record. If you read message number 1 before the reset, your browser cache remembers that it has visited that link and shows the new message number 1 (numbered AFTER the reset) as being a visited link (a different color). You can force your browser to forget that it has visited this URL by resetting your visited links.
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Date: Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 09:24:51 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Forum Reset
Message:
Hi Brian (and "educate me") -
FYI, I DON'T have to reset my expired links on the forum because I have my links set to expire in 7 days (or something like that). In other words - message 1 from the old forum is already expired and so forth. So other people may not have to either.
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Date: Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 13:22:13 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Forum Reset
Message:
Hi Brian (and 'educate me') -
FYI, I DON'T have to reset my expired links on the forum because I have my links set to expire in 7 days (or something like that). In other words - message 1 from the old forum is already expired and so forth. So other people may not have to either.
Smarty-pants...
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