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Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum II Archive #
4 |
From:
Jan 21, 1998 |
To:
Feb 4, 1998 |
Page:
2
Of:
5 |
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Katie -:- Forgiveness &Redemption -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 21:21:04 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re: Forgiveness &Redemption -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 23:13:30 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Forgiveness &Redemption -:- Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 17:01:54 (EST)
Brian -:- Knowledge Techniques -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 14:02:30 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Knowledge Techniques -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 16:58:39 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Knowledge Techniques -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 19:20:02 (EST)
___d@vid -:- Re: Knowledge Techniques -:- Mon, Feb 2, 1998 at 04:09:28 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: Knowledge Techniques -:- Mon, Feb 2, 1998 at 08:56:29 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: Knowledge Techniques -:- Mon, Feb 2, 1998 at 10:45:59 (EST)
___d@vid -:- Re: Knowledge Techniques -:- Mon, Feb 2, 1998 at 13:38:56 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Knowledge Techniques -:- Mon, Feb 2, 1998 at 14:10:21 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Knowledge Techniques -:- Mon, Feb 2, 1998 at 15:42:13 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: Knowledge Techniques -:- Mon, Feb 2, 1998 at 21:04:10 (EST)
Janice -:- Banned forever...sob -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 12:51:11 (EST)
___Mind detective -:- Re: Banned forever...sob -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 13:49:43 (EST)
___Mr Codpiece -:- Re: Banned forever...sob -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 14:45:31 (EST)
Janice. -:- Or blind? -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 08:08:57 (EST)
___Mind detective -:- Re: Or blind? -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 10:09:58 (EST)
___Rick -:- Re: Or blind? -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 10:39:06 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Or blind? -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 11:31:15 (EST)
___Anonmousie -:- just weighing in -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 12:06:26 (EST)
___Janice -:- Re: just weighing in -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 12:35:52 (EST)
___Rick -:- Re: Or blind? -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 15:49:30 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Or blind? -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 16:50:34 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Or blind? -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 21:35:56 (EST)
VP -:- premie suicide -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 00:24:50 (EST)
___tomb -:- stone -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 00:56:14 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: stone -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 10:00:08 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: stone -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 11:10:14 (EST)
___op - slightly off topic -:- Re: stone -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 15:53:36 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: stone and Claudia -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 17:13:19 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: stone and Claudia -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 18:36:53 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: stone and Claudia -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 19:42:02 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: stone and Claudia -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 19:50:05 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: stone and Claudia -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 19:53:53 (EST)
StephenB -:- Eye damage -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 20:28:38 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Eye damage -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 20:45:36 (EST)
___StephenB -:- Re: Eye damage -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 21:00:55 (EST)
___eye -:- damage -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 21:34:13 (EST)
___Joy -:- Re: Eye damage -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 22:00:08 (EST)
___StephenB -:- Re: Eye damage -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 22:12:06 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Eye damage -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 00:00:37 (EST)
___Baby prem. -:- Age -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 23:50:21 (EST)
___Katie -:- Born in 1964? -:- Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 00:31:38 (EST)
___Anon -:- Re: Born in 1964? -:- Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 06:50:26 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Born in 1964? -:- Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 09:04:32 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Born in 1964? -:- Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 12:00:38 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Born in 1964? -:- Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 15:59:27 (EST)
___Baby Prem -:- Re: Born in 1964? -:- Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 20:42:01 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Born in 1964? -:- Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 21:03:14 (EST)
___bftb -:- Re: Born in 1964? -:- Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 21:41:44 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Born in 1956 -:- Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 21:52:35 (EST)
___bftb -:- Re: Born in 1956 -:- Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 22:05:19 (EST)
___Katie off topic -:- Re: Born in 1956 -:- Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 22:17:14 (EST)
___Baby Prem -:- Born in the wrong time? -:- Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 22:18:27 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Born in 1964? -:- Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 22:24:19 (EST)
___bftb -:- Re: Born in 1956 -:- Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 22:38:10 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Born in the wrong time? -:- Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 22:41:13 (EST)
___Katie off topic -:- Re: Born in 1956 -:- Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 22:51:18 (EST)
___VP/BP -:- Re: Born in the wrong time? -:- Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 23:10:45 (EST)
Aspirant -:- new name -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 11:32:58 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: new name -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 20:31:48 (EST)
___web -:- bie -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 21:38:48 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re: new name -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 22:04:28 (EST)
___VP/Aspirant -:- Re: new name -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 23:17:11 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: new name -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 23:27:27 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: new name -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 23:38:42 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: bie -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 23:43:17 (EST)
___StephenB -:- Re: new name -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 00:27:15 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: new name -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 01:51:35 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: bie -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 01:53:24 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: bie -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 08:23:50 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: new name -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 08:31:07 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re: new name -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 09:57:11 (EST)
___VP -:- music -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 10:03:39 (EST)
___Ms. K -:- Re: new name -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 11:35:57 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Musical antidepressants -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 13:58:31 (EST)
___StephenB -:- Re: new name -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 16:19:29 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: new name -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 18:07:29 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: new name -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 18:46:06 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: new name -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 20:49:11 (EST)
___CD -:- Re: new name -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 22:42:07 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Musical antidepressants -:- Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 23:19:18 (EST)
Aspirant 4 25 years -:- Web Site -:- Thurs, Jan 29, 1998 at 22:17:58 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re: Web Site -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 01:06:45 (EST)
___Anon -:- Re: Web Site -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 09:45:15 (EST)
___Aspirant -:- Re: Web Site -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 10:07:20 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Web Site -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 10:20:36 (EST)
___Aspirant -:- Re: Web Site -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 10:21:00 (EST)
___Aspirant -:- Re: Web Site -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 10:23:36 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: Web Site -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 13:02:43 (EST)
___Joy -:- Re: Web Site -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 13:08:25 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: Web Site -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 13:45:55 (EST)
___Aspirant -:- Re: Web Site -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 14:26:08 (EST)
___Aspirant -:- Re: Web Site -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 15:15:14 (EST)
___Aspirant -:- Re: Web Site -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 19:47:49 (EST)
___Sir David -:- Re: Web Site -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 22:35:16 (EST)
Preliminary Info -:- DLM/Elan Vital -:- Thurs, Jan 29, 1998 at 17:16:17 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: DLM/Elan Vital -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 03:54:13 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: DLM/Elan Vital -:- Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 05:54:05 (EST)
JW -:- DLM/Elan Vital -:- Mon, Feb 2, 1998 at 17:54:14 (EST)
___Bored Stiff -:- Re: DLM/Elan Vital -:- Mon, Feb 2, 1998 at 21:18:11 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: DLM/Elan Vital -:- Mon, Feb 2, 1998 at 23:07:53 (EST)
___Joy -:- Re: DLM/Elan Vital -:- Tues, Feb 3, 1998 at 00:57:55 (EST)
___Anon -:- Re: DLM/Elan Vital -:- Tues, Feb 3, 1998 at 05:52:22 (EST)
___Well..He's got a point -:- Lets just dance ..Tra la la la la -:- Tues, Feb 3, 1998 at 09:38:16 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: DLM/Elan Vital -:- Tues, Feb 3, 1998 at 17:05:35 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: hypocrite? -:- Tues, Feb 3, 1998 at 18:14:38 (EST)
___JW -- off subject -:- Re: DLM/Elan Vital -:- Tues, Feb 3, 1998 at 20:07:22 (EST)
___JW -:- Re: DLM/Elan Vital -:- Tues, Feb 3, 1998 at 20:29:25 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- Re: DLM/Elan Vital -:- Wed, Feb 4, 1998 at 04:48:15 (EST)
Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 21:21:04 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Mr. Ex and Everyone
Subject: Forgiveness &Redemption
Message:
Dear Mr. Ex,
This post and answer were in a previous thread, but I moved it up here because I thought it was important.
Mr. Ex. wrote:
What I mean to say is at that time I took m's chickenshit explanations as something great. I was totally indulged in that love hate relationship. I've now realized he was (and he is still) deluding me and everybody else with his tricks.
I feel very sorry for myself, and for all the people to whom I faithfully conveyed m's words. I was not some kind of nazi as some obviously were, but I realize that I very likely harmed many people by my stupid behaviour. What can I do now?
K wrote:
I think your concern is shared by many people who used to be in positions of "power" in Maharaji's organization.
First, forgive yourself (easy to say, hard to do).
To help yourself with that, if there is anything that you can do to help a person who you hurt back then (if you know about it, and if you can do it without hurting them further), you can do that thing.
I know that the work you have done on the ex-premie web site is helping a lot of people. I hope you know this too.
Regards,
Katie
P.S. I sent you an e-mail but it came back. Could you please send me your
correct address? Thanks.
Subject:
From:
T
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 23:13:30 (EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Forgiveness &Redemption
Message:
Don't be so hard on yourself Mr Ex. If you're the guy I think you are, you were a much appreciated premie in the community when I knew you back in 1976. Sure we were all a bit crazy then as you told me yourself when we met again years later.
We were all gung ho on the same trip but you struck me as being one of the easy premies to know. You never laid any trips on me. We were young and enthusiastic about our Lord. What we did we did in all innocence, thinking we were doing the right thing. Above all we were sincere.
No guilt lies at your feet, Mr Ex. You sincerely believed you were doing the right thing. And you were a great guy to know.
If you're not the guy I think you are, well the above is probably just as true. I won't reveal your identity of course but something we'll both remember if you are the Mr Ex I think you are:
Remember Des in '76?
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Date: Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 17:01:54 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Forgiveness &Redemption
Message:
I can very much relate to this discussion. There are a number of specific incidents that pop into my mind now and again of things I did in Maharaji's cult, mostly in my "official" DLM capacity, that make me cringe when I think about them now. These were things I did to other people in my official capacity as one of Maharaji's stromtroopers for which I have felt a lot of guilt. I think I have reconciled most of that, and I agree that I was just passing down the pecking order what Maharaji said to all of us about total dedication, surrender, and the subordination of your free will..
I can recall cajolling people to surrender more, to trust Maharaji more, and to discount and ignore their own better judgments. There were many different settings in which that happened, but in almost every instance it was the WRONG answer to give these people, and I really knew it, but I didn't listen to my own values either, because I was listening to Maharaji instead.
And what I said, encouraged people to damage their relationships, their ties with their families, their careers and financial futures, and it encouraged them to lead anything other than a self-directed life, which I have come to discover is what life is really all about. It was the same trap I fell into, but I know that I encouraged others to fall into the same one, and I have felt guilty about that. I have personally apologized to several of those people, and I tried to make up for it by encouraging them to get out of the cult once and for all. And, thankfully, those I was at all close to all did. So, I feel I made up for it to some extent. And I still think Maharaji should at least to what I did and admit he has ultimate responsibility, but I think his huge ego STILL, even all these years later, won't let him.
JW
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 14:02:30 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: Everyone
Subject: Knowledge Techniques
Message:
I'm seeing posts here, and getting email, regarding the "missing" Knowledge Techniques page.
I didn't link the page that was here before because, other than the out-dated pictures, the information wasn't correct. Example: Light - push on your eyes?? The description of the Nectar technique (who can remember these technique numbers...) was gross.
I'm trying to get some clarification on these points right now. That and a bunch of other stuff. [MJ - PLEASE CALL ME!]
My main hobby right now is trying to get the Archives for Forum II in some sort of linkable state.
Also planned: a picture page of MJ in, and out of, all his glory.
(Rolls Royce is hyphenated??? Sheeeesh...)
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 16:58:39 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Knowledge Techniques
Message:
I'm seeing posts here, and getting email, regarding the 'missing' Knowledge Techniques page.
I didn't link the page that was here before because, other than the out-dated pictures, the information wasn't correct. Example: Light - push on your eyes?? The description of the Nectar technique (who can remember these technique numbers...) was gross.
I'm trying to get some clarification on these points right now. That and a bunch of other stuff. [MJ - PLEASE CALL ME!]
My main hobby right now is trying to get the Archives for Forum II in some sort of linkable state.
Also planned: a picture page of MJ in, and out of, all his glory.
(Rolls Royce is hyphenated??? Sheeeesh...)
Dear Brian, Sorry I started all of that fuss! You are doing a great job with this. After being answered, I realize that you do have the updated techniques on here (the "correct" ones.)
Again, apologies! Keep up the good work.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 19:20:02 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Knowledge Techniques
Message:
I'm seeing posts here, and getting email, regarding the 'missing' Knowledge Techniques page.
I didn't link the page that was here before because, other than the out-dated pictures, the information wasn't correct. Example: Light - push on your eyes?? The description of the Nectar technique (who can remember these technique numbers...) was gross.
I'm trying to get some clarification on these points right now. That and a bunch of other stuff. [MJ - PLEASE CALL ME!]
My main hobby right now is trying to get the Archives for Forum II in some sort of linkable state.
Also planned: a picture page of MJ in, and out of, all his glory.
(Rolls Royce is hyphenated??? Sheeeesh...)
I think what people miss is those hunky pictures of David Stirling doing the techniques. Those pictures have really freaked out a couple of friends of mine - not because of David's looks, of course - but because someone would have the sheer gall to put them on the net.
I do agree that the Nectar technique illustration was quite unattractive. However, the pictures of David were not (even though he was using one of those forbidden baragons).
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Date: Mon, Feb 2, 1998 at 04:09:28 (EST)
Poster: d@vid
Email: d@vid
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Knowledge Techniques
Message:
Big Brother Brian announced: I'm seeing posts here, and getting email, regarding the 'missing' Knowledge Techniques page. I didn't link the page that was here before because, other than the out-dated pictures, the information wasn't correct. Example: Light - push on your eyes?? The description of the Nectar technique (who can remember these technique numbers...) was gross.
Don't get me wrong Brian, it's a blessed relief to see those embarrassing pictures of me balancing on a baragon vanish from the ethers, but those were the techniques I - along with thousands of others - were shown. BigM may have changed the unchangable secret to enlightenment in later years, when reports of eye damage began to surface (see post below), but we were told to press firmly on our eyeballs. And gross as you may find it, we were also shown how to swallow our tongues. So I find your impression of a shocked maiden aunt a little puzzling (and worrying).
I have a suggestion... Why not leave a small doorway somewhere on the site to some of those old pages (perhaps on the site history section). I'm sure there's enough space. It would make an interesting diversion for anyone straying onto the site and I can't see it would do any harm. (It also had a report from a British eye surgeon on potential damage to the retina which the writer below might have found useful.)
Anyone else agree?
D@vid
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Date: Mon, Feb 2, 1998 at 08:56:29 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: d@vid
Subject: Re: Knowledge Techniques
Message:
I took that page off of the site because I was trying to get the format of all the pages changed by a deadline that I had set. When I got to that page, I had no other text to replace what had been there, so I tabled it for the moment. I've been trying to get the archives online, and have finally been able to break 5 megabytes of Forum content into files that a browser can load. It took the whole month to do both the format change of the site and the archives. In the process of doing the latter, I found the "lost archive" of pre-crash messages and I want those included too, since those 580+ articles should have been in the first archive. So I haven't been dating much lately.
But I have also been corresponding in the meanwhile with some people to try to get clear on just what "we" were told about the "Ancient Techniques" that Jesus himself used to peddle.
Your description of the meditation techniques was different from what I was told by Mahatma Rajeshwar in 1972, so I couldn't honestly put them back as they were. Mr. Ex's description was even more different! Someone else posted here that they had been shown nine techniques in a Knowledge Session that spanned days!
I don't think that the descriptions on a page named "The Knowledge Techniques" should look like out-takes from one person's Journeys entry. Neither should they look like a collection of opinions from the Forum.
But, from what I'm finding through talking to ex's about it, every mahatma taught different techniques, and taught them differently. Perhaps even at different times.
I am even questioning whether a 6-year old can remember a damn thing from his session. Someone makes him satguru two years later and who's he gonna ask for a review? Bob Mishler said that MJ didn't meditate. Who taught him in the meantime?
In keeping our "vows" of secrecy about the techniques, we also kept them from each other. That you put the page on the site in the first place is a very good thing, in my view. I want it there still, and as a look back at what "was" being taught, I want to use your pictures if you don't mind. But what was really being taught?? By whom, and when?? To replace your version (which is different from my experience) with my version (which may be different from other people's), is hardly the solution.
As for your being worried, don't. I have not quite gone down the Mili and Harlan path to Web Enlightenment. But, as you know, the site consumes personal time, and everyone has their own pet page that they want added/restored. Not everyone is going to be happy with every page at every moment, but I'm willing to live with that as long as I can be making progress.
So, tell me people - what were you told, by who, and when? Maybe that page will end up looking like a forum digest...
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Date: Mon, Feb 2, 1998 at 10:45:59 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Knowledge Techniques
Message:
I think that what you just said summarize the whole issue quite well.
Maybe you could call this 'history of k sessions', including some of the fairy tales being told at those times
1/ How it was in the past:
before m's reign
when Indian mahatmas would give k
end of Indian/western mahatmas/initiators/instructors
2/ How it's been shown since m himself does it (see what I wrote). Nothing changed since.
Now very likely any people having received k at any of those time will understand the reason of these differences.
Not mentioning people who received only 1, 2 or 3 of the 4 techniques because of something weird happened during the session.
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Date: Mon, Feb 2, 1998 at 13:38:56 (EST)
Poster: d@vid
Email: d@vid
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Knowledge Techniques
Message:
Thanks for responding Brian, I just got a little sad that all the hours, days, weeks and months of work that I put into the site has vanished down the plug hole. But attachment was always my problem. I'll leave it to you because you have a better grasp of the situation now, rather than 25 years ago. BTW, dont you think the new logo is a little... you know... excremental?! Just my jaundiced Ch4 view! Have fun.
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Date: Mon, Feb 2, 1998 at 14:10:21 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: d@vid
Subject: Re: Knowledge Techniques
Message:
Thanks for responding Brian, I just got a little sad that all the hours, days, weeks and months of work that I put into the site has vanished down the plug hole. But attachment was always my problem. I'll leave it to you because you have a better grasp of the situation now, rather than 25 years ago. BTW, dont you think the new logo is a little... you know... excremental?! Just my jaundiced Ch4 view! Have fun.
David,
I know that you weren't fishing for a compliment with that last post, but I do want to tell you that your work was not in vain. It helped answer some very important questions for me and I thank you so very much. It did not vanish down the plug hole completely-- I have the info printed out. I made copies for several family members who were interested. (Everytime I tried to find some info on M, it disappeared into thin air, so the first time I ran across your site, I printed everything! You can imagine my surprise when I came back to the site last week and discovered the changes...it was ironic from my point of view)
I loved the way that you were able to poke fun at certain things-especially about the K techniques. It helped me to see that the whole cult experience of living as a premie and loving M was really what this was about-not really the K itself. I always thought it was about the K. I loved the goofy pictures, too because sometimes a picture is worth a million words. Thank you!
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Date: Mon, Feb 2, 1998 at 15:42:13 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: d@vid
Subject: Re: Knowledge Techniques
Message:
Thanks for responding Brian, I just got a little sad that all the hours, days, weeks and months of work that I put into the site has vanished down the plug hole. But attachment was always my problem. I'll leave it to you because you have a better grasp of the situation now, rather than 25 years ago. BTW, dont you think the new logo is a little... you know... excremental?! Just my jaundiced Ch4 view! Have fun.
Dear Shri David - I agree with VP that your work has not vanished down the plug hole (whatever that may be.) Brian's site is built & is still being built on the framework of your site, as your site enlarged upon Scott's.
Brian tells me there have been several requests -including mine- for your pictures w/baragon, so they may turn up on the site again. Apparently the pictures of you were quite a favorite with the 1970's-vintage premies. One of my old premie friends came to visit me over the holidays and those pictures were the first thing she wanted to see. She actually covered her eyes when I brought them up on the screen (the taboo is pretty strong!) and then started laughing really hard (and uncovered her eyes, too).
I do like Brian's redesign of the site, and I hope you can understand why he wanted to redesign it from the ground up rather than just to modify what you had done before.
I'm glad you are still around and haven't gotten totally fed-up with the exes & etc.
Katie
P.S. I won't comment on your "excremental" remark, although I imagine that others will!
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Date: Mon, Feb 2, 1998 at 21:04:10 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: d@vid
Subject: Re: Knowledge Techniques
Message:
Thanks for responding Brian, I just got a little sad that all the hours, days, weeks and months of work that I put into the site has vanished down the plug hole.
I don't get a chance to read everything posted anymore, but was following this thread because I am trying to figure out how to deal with the bizarre number of versions of the "real" techniques that seem to be out there, so was fortunate to see your post.
Don't be too sad. Most of what you had on the site will go back, but on a different framework. I personally agree with pictures saying more than words, and want to use the ones you had online within a look-back type page.
When you took over the site, there was far less content. It grew amazingly under your efforts, and I'm reluctant to see it chopped off to never return. But time constraints required me to do some heavy pruning. It will grow back fuller than ever, since I kept all that was there.
As for letting go of an old love, I'll probably feel the same way some day. Maybe Prem Pal will have shaken off his devotional yoke to a dead past and want to do something truely constructive by then... maybe not...
Anyway, thanks David for efforts contributed and resposibilities assumed - ones I very much appreciate now that they are mine. I inherited a lot.
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 12:51:11 (EST)
Poster: Janice
Email: Leavehere @once:-(
To: Rick and Katie
Subject: Banned forever...sob
Message:
1.Katie.
So I hate you because your a women hey?
How do I know your a women? You certainly dont look like one. Your feet are too big.
2.Rick.
I am a low life am I? Well yes, that maybe true. In fact it is bloody well true.....but, and its a big But....I'm having fun. Nothin much to do here in jail ya see.
3.Sherlock.
If you all want me to stop coming here, then I will, but why? I thought the web was against all that kind of stuff. you know banning people and all that. If you all want me to stay away, then just say so. I thought youall liked me.
:-(
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 13:49:43 (EST)
Poster: Mind detective
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Janice
Subject: Re: Banned forever...sob
Message:
I never said you should stop coming here, only that the good Doctor Watson and myself will soon deduce your identity.
Yes Watson, notice the reference to sixties comedian, Dick Emery, in the quote, "Oooh you are awful, but I like you."
Clearly this bounder is English and in his mid forties to be aware of this English comedian, Emery.
Elementary my dear Watson. Now slap me with that wet fish, Watson. Harder, harder that's it. Oh yes, yes, YES!
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 14:45:31 (EST)
Poster: Mr Codpiece
Email: Shot @dawn
To: Mind detective
Subject: Re: Banned forever...sob
Message:
I never said you should stop coming here, only that the good Doctor Watson and myself will soon deduce your identity.
Yes Watson, notice the reference to sixties comedian, Dick Emery, in the quote, 'Oooh you are awful, but I like you.'
Clearly this bounder is English and in his mid forties to be aware of this English comedian, Emery.
Elementary my dear Watson. Now slap me with that wet fish, Watson. Harder, harder that's it. Oh yes, yes, YES!
Oh ..So that was you was it?
I know your sort. Well you will have to get to the back of the line.
I'm gonna make you wait.
What dya mean mid forties? Cheeky swine :-)
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 08:08:57 (EST)
Poster: Janice.
Email: Dancer
To: Katie...Near sighted
Subject: Or blind?
Message:
Well katie - I can just see you now. Sitting on your arse worrying about your weight and rolling your eyes up into their sockets. HahaHa . Now thats normal behavior aint it?
Just go to sleep.
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 10:09:58 (EST)
Poster: Mind detective
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Janice.
Subject: Re: Or blind?
Message:
Elimentary my dear Watson. I can see from the spelling of "arse" that the Dancer is probably British. Using my subtle powers of reasoning we'll soon have this Dancer's identity known. Pass me my magnifying glass, Watson.
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 10:39:06 (EST)
Poster: Rick
Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com
To: Mind detective
Subject: Re: Or blind?
Message:
Elimentary my dear Watson. I can see from the spelling of 'arse' that the Dancer is probably British. Using my subtle powers of reasoning we'll soon have this Dancer's identity known. Pass me my magnifying glass, Watson.
Good. I hope there's some way to ban them from the site. What a low life.
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 11:31:15 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Rick
Subject: Re: Or blind?
Message:
Dear Rick,
You know, I think this person is actually helping me. I am much less sensitive and upset about being fat and/or overweight as a child than I was a few weeks ago. When I read the latest hate mail this morning, it just seemed boring to me.
I do think that whoever this is is on my case because I am female and females tend to get flamed and propositioned on the net whenever they dare to appaar.
P.S. "Janice" is apparently the same person who "Wanted to Slap U All with Wet Fish" last week. Any takers?
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 12:06:26 (EST)
Poster: Anonmousie
Email: Anonomousie
To: Katie
Subject: just weighing in (Re: Or blind?)
Message:
Hello dearie,
I am back for a spell and I see you are discussing
weight.
I eat junk food to get it out of the house.
When I buy cookies I eat some of them and then spray the
rest with RAID and then throw them in the trash, but
in a pinch, RAID doesn't taste all that bad.
There is a thin women inside every fat woman, I ate mine.
The ozone layer, or cheese in a can,
don't make me choose!
The thought of surgery to suck fat out of my body makes me
feel sick. I could never do it. Instead of Liposuction,
why not go directly to the source?
I'd rather have Fridge-o-suction. Get it before it lands on
me.
So many chickens, so few recipes.
The Gabor sisters said at one point in a womans life
she has to choose between her face and her butt.
I chose my face. A fat face is much nicer on an older woman.
Let your fanny grow into a hefty monstrosity, all the
better to moon the critics.
We will have to chat some more Katie dear.
Skinny people piss me off. Especially when they say things
like, 'you know, I forgot to eat.' Now I've forgotten
my address, my money, my mothers maiden name, and my keys.
But I have NEVER forgotten to eat. You have to be a
special kind of stupid to forget to eat. And the heck with
them, in that case they don't desrve to eat.
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 12:35:52 (EST)
Poster: Janice
Email: mmm
To: Anonmousie
Subject: Re: just weighing in (Re: Or blind?)
Message:
Hello dearie,
I am back for a spell and I see you are discussing
weight.
I eat junk food to get it out of the house.
When I buy cookies I eat some of them and then spray the
rest with RAID and then throw them in the trash, but
in a pinch, RAID doesn't taste all that bad.
There is a thin women inside every fat woman, I ate mine.
The ozone layer, or cheese in a can,
don't make me choose!
The thought of surgery to suck fat out of my body makes me
feel sick. I could never do it. Instead of Liposuction,
why not go directly to the source?
I'd rather have Fridge-o-suction. Get it before it lands on
me.
So many chickens, so few recipes.
The Gabor sisters said at one point in a womans life
she has to choose between her face and her butt.
I chose my face. A fat face is much nicer on an older woman.
Let your fanny grow into a hefty monstrosity, all the
better to moon the critics.
We will have to chat some more Katie dear.
Skinny people piss me off. Especially when they say things
like, 'you know, I forgot to eat.' Now I've forgotten
my address, my money, my mothers maiden name, and my keys.
But I have NEVER forgotten to eat. You have to be a
special kind of stupid to forget to eat. And the heck with
them, in that case they don't desrve to eat.
I agree. You are awful... but I like you. :-)
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 15:49:30 (EST)
Poster: Rick
Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Or blind?
Message:
Dear Rick,
You know, I think this person is actually helping me. I am much less sensitive and upset about being fat and/or overweight as a child than I was a few weeks ago. When I read the latest hate mail this morning, it just seemed boring to me.
I do think that whoever this is is on my case because I am female and females tend to get flamed and propositioned on the net whenever they dare to appaar.
P.S. 'Janice' is apparently the same person who 'Wanted to Slap U All with Wet Fish' last week. Any takers?
Katie,
That's excellent. Sometimes people can hurt others with so little; which is exactly what that flamer has... so little. I'm glad it doesn't hurt you. It would be unfair if it did.
Rick
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 16:50:34 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Or blind?
Message:
Dear Rick,
You know, I think this person is actually helping me. I am much less sensitive and upset about being fat and/or overweight as a child than I was a few weeks ago. When I read the latest hate mail this morning, it just seemed boring to me.
I do think that whoever this is is on my case because I am female and females tend to get flamed and propositioned on the net whenever they dare to appaar.
P.S. 'Janice' is apparently the same person who 'Wanted to Slap U All with Wet Fish' last week. Any takers?
Dear Katie,
I was hoping that no one was going to respond to that trash when I saw it earlier today. I think someone is trying to distract us from the subject at hand...
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 21:35:56 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: Or blind?
Message:
Hi VP (and Rick),
This trash (as VP) puts it, tends to appear every Friday and Saturday night. BFTB, who is another person who posts on here) called the people "shit disturbers". Their posts originate from one or two ISPs, so they're probably one, possibly two persons (my hacking skills extend no farther than that). I find it hard not to respond, as they tend to attack me personally, probably because I am one of the only women posting on here (there are several more, but they don't post as much or use fake ID's. I don't blame them.)
Just FYI,
Katie
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 00:24:50 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: premie suicide
Message:
One last thread for me and then I have got to go to sleep. Been at this all day. The family member who introduced me to M and the scene killed himself/herself at precisely the same time that the DLM was going undercover. (Lawsuits, etc.) I did not know this at the time. I put it together after reading the history on this web site. A note was left about how great M and K were and I remember thinking, at the time that if they are so great, why have you blown your brains out?
I cannot blame M for the actions of an adult making their own choice about whether to live or die, but a lot of it makes sense. This premie was very devoted and intense. This premie was totally sincere-no room for mind or doubt there. I'm now sure that he/she was devastated to realize that M was being sued by his own mother and brother. Ashrams were closing and all that stuff. (Which I didn't know until now) I remember this person telling me, "There are going to be some big changes. M says it's the way it has to be- for the best. It's going to be even harder to get K now." Do any of yu know of other premies who killed themselves after being let down by M?
One more question. Who is Claudia that I keep hearing about in previous strands? What is the story and what book did she write.?
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 00:56:14 (EST)
Poster: tomb
Email: **
To: VP
Subject: stone (Re: premie suicide)
Message:
Yeah we sure do.
Maybe there will be a part of the website for
headstones-or pictures- and stories about them. I know
at least three. Three that were clearly related to
m's influence.
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 10:00:08 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: tomb
Subject: Re: stone (Re: premie suicide)
Message:
Yeah we sure do.
Maybe there will be a part of the website for
headstones-or pictures- and stories about them. I know
at least three. Three that were clearly related to
m's influence.
Thanks for answering. I hate to hear that there were more. I think that section is a good idea and should be forwarded along to the webmaster. They sure can't put themselves in the white pages, that is for sure.
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 11:10:14 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@Mail.trib.net
To: VP
Subject: Re: stone (Re: premie suicide)
Message:
We had a thread about suicide among premies a few weeks abot (it is now archived). It got started because a person wrote in and said that his premie brother had committed suicide several years before, and that his OTHER premie brother had just had a nervous breakdown. There was a thread going with a list of premies we know who committed suicide. Unfortunately, there are quite a few of them.
Re: Claudia Littmann. She is Raja Ji (M's brother)'s ex-wife (I think that they are ex, maybe just extranged). I'm not sure about the book rumor - IMHO it sounds like a rumor to me. But who knows.
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 15:53:36 (EST)
Poster: op - slightly off topic
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: stone (Re: premie suicide)
Message:
Re Claudia:
She is currently a very successful interior designer, and is on good terms with Rajaji's current wife.
As far as I know, she doesn't practice Knowledge, but I haven't heard anything about a kiss-and-tell book.
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 17:13:19 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Katie and op
Subject: Re: stone and Claudia (Re: premie suicide)
Message:
We had a thread about suicide among premies a few weeks abot (it is now archived). It got started because a person wrote in and said that his premie brother had committed suicide several years before, and that his OTHER premie brother had just had a nervous breakdown. There was a thread going with a list of premies we know who committed suicide. Unfortunately, there are quite a few of them.
Re: Claudia Littmann. She is Raja Ji (M's brother)'s ex-wife (I think that they are ex, maybe just extranged). I'm not sure about the book rumor - IMHO it sounds like a rumor to me. But who knows.
Thanks for the info! I will have to look that archive up. I will probably ask lots of questions that are old and have already been answered since I have just gotten here very recently.
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 18:36:53 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: stone and Claudia (Re: premie suicide)
Message:
Thanks for the info! I will have to look that archive up. I will probably ask lots of questions that are old and have already been answered since I have just gotten here very recently.
Actually, the archive which contained the list of premies who had committed suicide isn't on yet line (I don't think so anyway). But please feel free to ask as many questions as you want - there's a lot of other new people on here and I'm sure they're interested as well.
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 19:42:02 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: stone and Claudia (Re: premie suicide)
Message:
Thanks for the info! I will have to look that archive up. I will probably ask lots of questions that are old and have already been answered since I have just gotten here very recently.
Actually, the archive which contained the list of premies who had committed suicide isn't on yet line (I don't think so anyway). But please feel free to ask as many questions as you want - there's a lot of other new people on here and I'm sure they're interested as well.
You have been so helpful and once again I say thank you! (How anyone could be ugly to you is beyond me.) I have a question for you. I have been going through the journeys and reading them and there are two Katies in there. Which one are you, if you don't mind me asking.
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 19:50:05 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: stone and Claudia (Re: premie suicide)
Message:
You have been so helpful and once again I say thank you! (How anyone could be ugly to you is beyond me.) I have a question for you. I have been going through the journeys and reading them and there are two Katies in there. Which one are you, if you don't mind me asking.
I am Katie (a.k.a Mischa) from the DC area.
P.S. Thanks!
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 19:53:53 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: stone and Claudia (Re: premie suicide)
Message:
FYI, I also sometimes refer to myself on the forum as Ms. K, Kathryn (my given name), and very VERY rarely as Edith. Edith only appears in answers to Bill Burke (bb or **). (It's a joke - about "All in the Family".)
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 20:28:38 (EST)
Poster: StephenB
Email: brunston@tde.com
To: Everyone
Subject: Eye damage
Message:
Jai sat shit ananda!
I wonder why i never did this search before. I was a premie in Denver Colo. from age 16 to apx 22. Lived in the Denver Ashram, worked for the magazine, around 1971 to 70 whatever. Got disapointed when the houston astro-dome didn't take off in a blaze of glory.
Hey i was wondering if anyone has posted about eye damage due to the "light technique"? I was diagnosied with pigmentary glaucoma about 5 years ago. That is a very mechanical eye disease in which the pigment of the eye is released into the center fluid and blocks the uptake, increasing the presure in the eye. I am mostly blind in my right eye, working on my left.
I have often wondered if this was caused by my self abuse in an effort to "see light" as practiced by us folks.
Look forward to any responses, pro and con.
Love to all
Stephen B
brusnton@tde.com
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 20:45:36 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: StephenB
Subject: Re: Eye damage
Message:
Jai sat shit ananda!
I wonder why i never did this search before. I was a premie in Denver Colo. from age 16 to apx 22. Lived in the Denver Ashram, worked for the magazine, around 1971 to 70 whatever. Got disapointed when the houston astro-dome didn't take off in a blaze of glory.
Hey i was wondering if anyone has posted about eye damage due to the 'light technique'? I was diagnosied with pigmentary glaucoma about 5 years ago. That is a very mechanical eye disease in which the pigment of the eye is released into the center fluid and blocks the uptake, increasing the presure in the eye. I am mostly blind in my right eye, working on my left.
I have often wondered if this was caused by my self abuse in an effort to 'see light' as practiced by us folks.
Look forward to any responses, pro and con.
Love to all
Stephen B
brusnton@tde.com
Dear Stephen - first let me say that I am very sorry about your eye problems. I have nightmares about going blind because I am extremely nearsighted - it's very hard for me to see without glasses. I was always pretty careful not to press too hard while doing the light technique - sometimes I just rolled my eyes up into my head. I believe there are some anectotal stories about premies suffering eye damage (and even blindness) because of doing the light technique, but as far as I know, these are all hearsay.
Did you know Brian (our Webmaster) when you lived in the Denver ashram?
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 21:00:55 (EST)
Poster: StephenB
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Eye damage
Message:
thanks for the reply,
I don't remember very many folks from that time.....Perhaps
if I could talk with Brian I would remmeber him. Many of the folks I knew are long gone. Bob Michsler...ect. I did see a name i thought i recognized Sandy..Used to be the editor of the magazine. what is brians lasat name? Also most folks seem to be pretty Anonymos here...is ther a danger of retaliation? ...there used to be some pretty crazy stuff happening back then with "apostates" or anyone percieved to be an intelectual threat.
StephenB
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 21:34:13 (EST)
Poster: eye
Email: **
To: StephenB
Subject: damage (Re: Eye damage)
Message:
christ, I wouldn't be surprised if someone had eye
problems with what was shown.
The indian idiot that stuck his fingers in my eyes
really pushed hard, and when someone later said they didn't
see anything he said 'push harder'.
Just file the lawsuit and let him prove it isn't the cause.
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 22:00:08 (EST)
Poster: Joy
Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com
To: StephenB
Subject: Re: Eye damage
Message:
Hi Stephen, I'm sorry about your eye problems, also.
Re the light technique: I've had a brighter "light" experience when I once opened up a hot gas oven. Saw bright light for at least 30 seconds. So, as JW states below, it's just a physical gimmick. As for damage, I've had 20/20 vision all these years, so maybe I just wasn't pressing hard enough. Like I said to "aspirant" in the thread below, I think it can be dangerous (physically) to practice these techniques, and if someone's interested in meditation, they should try a more neutral kind. (And of course, it's dangerous spiritually if you attach MJ to the whole thing, as this site will ably demonstrate.)
I used to work (sorry, do service) at IHQ on And It Is Divine and Divine Times starting in late 1973, as the typesetter, later in the 70s as the layout person/transcriptionist. Do I know you? I don't think so, somehow, it sounds like you left just before I arrived.
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 22:12:06 (EST)
Poster: StephenB
Email: brunston@tde.com
To: Joy
Subject: Re: Eye damage
Message:
Hey we probably would recognize each other by sight. I am at the HQ during 73 and 74. I lived on Race Street....?
Drove a van for the magazine and did some writing. Thanks for the concern. I will wait and see what kind of response i get to this post...seems like i may be the only one.. We'll see
Stephen B
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 00:00:37 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: StephenB
Subject: Re: Eye damage
Message:
Hey we probably would recognize each other by sight. I am at the HQ during 73 and 74. I lived on Race Street....?
Drove a van for the magazine and did some writing. Thanks for the concern. I will wait and see what kind of response i get to this post...seems like i may be the only one.. We'll see
Stephen B
Hi Stephen - I'm not anonymous and neither are about half the people who write here. Some people are worried about fears of retaliation, but most are not. As for Brian's last name, I'll let him tell you that himself just in case.
P.S. Got your e-mail, and would love to hear your journeys entry. I am one of the younger people on the site because I got knowledge when I was 16 (a few years later they changed it to 18, but kids as young as 13 could get knowledge in 72). Anyway, I'm a few years younger than a lot of the people that post on this site - not that it matters when you're all in your forties and fifties... Sounds like your story is slightly similar to mine. I'll send you a note - Katie
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 23:50:21 (EST)
Poster: Baby prem.
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Age (Re: Eye damage)
Message:
In '72 when I first heard about M I was only 8! Originally I had posted 10 or 12. I was thinking it was later, but it was in "72. (Eight was a long time ago) Is anyone else posting here "thirtysomething"? Sincerely, Between the Baby Boomers and the Gen Xers -VP
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Date: Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 00:31:38 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: :the lost premie generation
Subject: Born in 1964? (Re: Eye damage)
Message:
In '72 when I first heard about M I was only 8! Originally I had posted 10 or 12. I was thinking it was later, but it was in '72. (Eight was a long time ago) Is anyone else posting here 'thirtysomething'? Sincerely, Between the Baby Boomers and the Gen Xers -VP
Yeah, I know that I feel silly writing that I am one of the "younger" people on the site when I am 41. It's true though. The reason is because so many college age people got knowledge in 1972 and 1973. You are the same age as my little bro. I think "bftb" if he's still around, and "And on Anand Ji" are thirty-something premies. Maybe there are some more.
P.S. How did you hear about GMJ when you were eight? I'm really interested.
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Date: Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 06:50:26 (EST)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Born in 1964? (Re: Eye damage)
Message:
In '72 when I first heard about M I was only 8! Originally I had posted 10 or 12. I was thinking it was later, but it was in '72. (Eight was a long time ago) Is anyone else posting here 'thirtysomething'? Sincerely, Between the Baby Boomers and the Gen Xers -VP
Yeah, I know that I feel silly writing that I am one of the 'younger' people on the site when I am 41. It's true though. The reason is because so many college age people got knowledge in 1972 and 1973. You are the same age as my little bro. I think 'bftb' if he's still around, and 'And on Anand Ji' are thirty-something premies. Maybe there are some more.
P.S. How did you hear about GMJ when you were eight? I'm really interested.
Me too. I am 41. I received Knowledge when I was 17 and henceforth remained a celibate premie until I was 25! No mean feat for a Scorpionic male I am told. I often wonder about the younger premies, of course Daya, Premalata etc know nothing of the rigours that were put upon us by their father when condemned to his ashram.
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Date: Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 09:04:32 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: Born in 1964? (Re: Eye damage)
Message:
In '72 when I first heard about M I was only 8! Originally I had posted 10 or 12. I was thinking it was later, but it was in '72. (Eight was a long time ago) Is anyone else posting here 'thirtysomething'? Sincerely, Between the Baby Boomers and the Gen Xers -VP
Yeah, I know that I feel silly writing that I am one of the 'younger' people on the site when I am 41. It's true though. The reason is because so many college age people got knowledge in 1972 and 1973. You are the same age as my little bro. I think 'bftb' if he's still around, and 'And on Anand Ji' are thirty-something premies. Maybe there are some more.
P.S. How did you hear about GMJ when you were eight? I'm really interested.
Me too. I am 41. I received Knowledge when I was 17 and henceforth remained a celibate premie until I was 25! No mean feat for a Scorpionic male I am told. I often wonder about the younger premies, of course Daya, Premalata etc know nothing of the rigours that were put upon us by their father when condemned to his ashram.
Katie and Anon,
My aunt and uncle and some cousins had just received knowledge. They took my siblings and I to Satsung. I don't think that they ever told my parents that we were going there. (Maybe that we were going to a movie-which was true.) Later after we had gone a couple of times, I think that they did tell them. My parents were open minded and really had not heard anything about it anyway, because it was all so new. ( I think they even went a couple of times after we had gone several times just to check it out. I know that both of them read Who Is Guru M. later)
To make a long story shorter, we wee folks kept wanting to go to Satsang and we were allowed to go several times. We even went to some ashrams to visit. We were always invited to attend programs, but were not allowed to attend those. Then for some reason that was unknown to us at the time, we were no longer allowed to go anywhere-and certainly not to Satsang with these relatives anymore for a while.
Some major value talks began happening in our household. A lot of talks about stealing is wrong, giving your choices and life over to someone else for decision making is wrong, etc. We were told that we alone should control our own destiny as much as that was possible. We could certainly love others with different opinions and not condemn them. I know now that they knew we were very impressionable and were heading towards big trouble. I think that they knew some things that I still don't know to this day. They were right because the seeds were planted. They were really smart to pull in the parental reigns when they did.
Of course we love these people in our family very much and we always saw them/see them and kept/keep in contact with them. Satsang doesn't have to be in a formal setting, as you know. Phone calls, letters, even an afternoon visit or a birthday card was and sometimes still is an opportunity to talk about GMJ.
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Date: Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 12:00:38 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Anon
Subject: Re: Born in 1964? (Re: Eye damage)
Message:
Me too. I am 41. I received Knowledge when I was 17 and henceforth remained a celibate premie until I was 25! No mean feat for a Scorpionic male I am told. I often wonder about the younger premies, of course Daya, Premalata etc know nothing of the rigours that were put upon us by their father when condemned to his ashram.
Dear Anon (fellow 41-year-old) - Celibacy from 17 to 25 is quite amazing for a young man (Scorpio or not). I was certainly not dedicated enought to make that sacrifice. One of the reasons I never wanted to move into the ashram (although it wasn't the only reason) is because I was too interested in boys (I say "boys" because of my age).
A lot of my premie friends, who were my age, got married at age 18 or 19 so that they could be "householders" rather than move into the ashram.
I digress, however. What I wanted to say is that Mr. Ex said a while ago that he didn't think that Daya Lata had received Knowledge. I wonder if any of M's kids have received Knowledge. And as far as their knowing of the rigors of the ashram - they'd probably have to read this site. Maybe they do.
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Date: Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 15:59:27 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: VP
Subject: Re: Born in 1964? (Re: Eye damage)
Message:
In '72 when I first heard about M I was only 8! Originally I had posted 10 or 12. I was thinking it was later, but it was in '72. (Eight was a long time ago) Is anyone else posting here 'thirtysomething'? Sincerely, Between the Baby Boomers and the Gen Xers -VP
Yeah, I know that I feel silly writing that I am one of the 'younger' people on the site when I am 41. It's true though. The reason is because so many college age people got knowledge in 1972 and 1973. You are the same age as my little bro. I think 'bftb' if he's still around, and 'And on Anand Ji' are thirty-something premies. Maybe there are some more.
P.S. How did you hear about GMJ when you were eight? I'm really interested.
Me too. I am 41. I received Knowledge when I was 17 and henceforth remained a celibate premie until I was 25! No mean feat for a Scorpionic male I am told. I often wonder about the younger premies, of course Daya, Premalata etc know nothing of the rigours that were put upon us by their father when condemned to his ashram.
Katie and Anon,
My aunt and uncle and some cousins had just received knowledge. They took my siblings and I to Satsung. I don't think that they ever told my parents that we were going there. (Maybe that we were going to a movie-which was true.) Later after we had gone a couple of times, I think that they did tell them. My parents were open minded and really had not heard anything about it anyway, because it was all so new. ( I think they even went a couple of times after we had gone several times just to check it out. I know that both of them read Who Is Guru M. later)
To make a long story shorter, we wee folks kept wanting to go to Satsang and we were allowed to go several times. We even went to some ashrams to visit. We were always invited to attend programs, but were not allowed to attend those. Then for some reason that was unknown to us at the time, we were no longer allowed to go anywhere-and certainly not to Satsang with these relatives anymore for a while.
Some major value talks began happening in our household. A lot of talks about stealing is wrong, giving your choices and life over to someone else for decision making is wrong, etc. We were told that we alone should control our own destiny as much as that was possible. We could certainly love others with different opinions and not condemn them. I know now that they knew we were very impressionable and were heading towards big trouble. I think that they knew some things that I still don't know to this day. They were right because the seeds were planted. They were really smart to pull in the parental reigns when they did.
Of course we love these people in our family very much and we always saw them/see them and kept/keep in contact with them. Satsang doesn't have to be in a formal setting, as you know. Phone calls, letters, even an afternoon visit or a birthday card was and sometimes still is an opportunity to talk about GMJ.
Dear VP,
It sounds like your parents were very wise people. I'm impressed. It sounds like they did things in such a way that you could continue to have a relationship with the premies in your family, which must have been a delicate situation, and one which it sounds like they handled quite diplomatically.
I'm assuming that your aunt and uncle and cousins still practice knowledge - is that true?
P.S. By the way, I keep thinking of you as "Baby Prem" now. I'm sorry! As I said before, you are the same age as my brother and I still sometimes think of him as my "baby brother" even though he's 33. (I NEVER say it to his face, though, as he is much bigger than me.)
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Date: Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 20:42:01 (EST)
Poster: Baby Prem
Email: VP
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Born in 1964? (Re: Eye damage)
Message:
Katie-
This is totally off subject and out of sequence, but WHAT is going on with this site today? (Sorry for shouting) First, I couldn't get on site. Then I could get on, but not into the Forum. Now I'm in here, I can barely see the posts. Nothing is moving. Is it because there are so many users? I am new to this computer thing. -Baby Prem
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Date: Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 21:03:14 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Baby Prem
Subject: Re: Born in 1964? (Re: Eye damage)
Message:
Katie-
This is totally off subject and out of sequence, but WHAT is going on with this site today? (Sorry for shouting) First, I couldn't get on site. Then I could get on, but not into the Forum. Now I'm in here, I can barely see the posts. Nothing is moving. Is it because there are so many users? I am new to this computer thing. -Baby Prem
I'm not sure what's going on. I have had a lot of trouble getting on the forum, but I thought that it was my Internet Service Provider, which can be glacially slow.
If you want to get to the forum directly the link is:
http://www.paradise-serve.com/powerforum/pwrforum.exe?who=anything&showall=ok
Copy that into your "location" thingie, and bookmark it. That way you bypass the link between the ex-premie site and the forum (in case the link is broken, which it has been at times lately).
What do you mean by you 'can barely see the posts'? Explain, if you can. That sounds strange, and out of my ken, really. The webmaster's address is brian@ex-premie.org, if you really start to have a problem. Brian knows a LOT more about computers and related stuff than I do. (Haven't heard from him today - perhaps he's working on the site links or something, which may explain the problem).
I don't think it's a user problem. It might be a problem on your end (with your Internet Service Provider - ISP), that is.
hope this helps -
Katie
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Date: Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 21:41:44 (EST)
Poster: bftb
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Born in 1964? (Re: Eye damage)
Message:
Hey katie, I don't think it was anyones isp causing the problem,I think it was 'paradise' related because I also had problems(a post I tried sending just wouldn't post,and right after that I couldn't access the site at all)so now that's 3 people who experienced difficulties today.
The post was basically me opining that the guy posting as 'janice' is definately a shit disturber but I'm not sure that he's trying to distract the forum,I think he just gets a laugh when people respond to him.He types,waits,then giggles.Don't indulge him.He'll probably come back under yet another name(just like he has for awhile now)and will start 'playing' again.
off topic:Funny reading another poster who upon rereading his post saw how it came off in a way he didn't intend.When you complimented me,I felt the need not only to thank-you but to point out that I was in no way nearly as impenitrable by b.s. as I seemed to be.In trying to explain that I knew all about 'merry shit disturbing'first hand,and would in the distant past use similar b.s. to counter it-by your reaction I knew that I had communicated what I was trying to say in a very poor way,I just wasn't clear at all.I tried to explain in a subsequent post but really,when I reread the original it just sounded stupider and stupider so I felt embarassed and stopped posting for awhile.It all boils down to my inability to accept a compliment without feeling a need to point out my shortcomings immediately thereafter.Perfect I'm not,thank god.
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Date: Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 21:52:35 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: bftb
Subject: Re: Born in 1956 (Re: Eye damage)
Message:
Hey katie, I don't think it was anyones isp causing the problem,I think it was 'paradise' related because I also had problems(a post I tried sending just wouldn't post,and right after that I couldn't access the site at all)so now that's 3 people who experienced difficulties today.
The post was basically me opining that the guy posting as 'janice' is definately a shit disturber but I'm not sure that he's trying to distract the forum,I think he just gets a laugh when people respond to him.He types,waits,then giggles.Don't indulge him.He'll probably come back under yet another name(just like he has for awhile now)and will start 'playing' again.
off topic:Funny reading another poster who upon rereading his post saw how it came off in a way he didn't intend.When you complimented me,I felt the need not only to thank-you but to point out that I was in no way nearly as impenitrable by b.s. as I seemed to be.In trying to explain that I knew all about 'merry shit disturbing'first hand,and would in the distant past use similar b.s. to counter it-by your reaction I knew that I had communicated what I was trying to say in a very poor way,I just wasn't clear at all.I tried to explain in a subsequent post but really,when I reread the original it just sounded stupider and stupider so I felt embarassed and stopped posting for awhile.It all boils down to my inability to accept a compliment without feeling a need to point out my shortcomings immediately thereafter.Perfect I'm not,thank god.
Hey bftb -
Regarding compliments, both my husband and myself have a hard time accepting them, so we often end up saying "Just accept the compliment!" to each other (after several rounds of "it's nothing", and so forth). So, JUST ACCEPT THE COMPLIMENT, bftb! If you don't deserve it, you'll be notified by the forum soon enough.
By the way, if this isn't too nosy, what year were you born? Or thereabouts, anyway. We're trying to figure out if there are any thirtysomething premies besides VP.
Katie
P.S. If it was Paradise screwing up, it wouldn't surprise me one bit. At least they didn't crash the forum this time!
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Date: Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 22:05:19 (EST)
Poster: bftb
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Born in 1956 (Re: Eye damage)
Message:
yep,another thirtysomething.Don't like that term though because it reminds me of that show with all the whining and over dramatics.
Gotta say I do think paradise is great-compared to other sites this one has relatively few problems.
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Date: Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 22:17:14 (EST)
Poster: Katie off topic
Email:
To: bftb
Subject: Re: Born in 1956 (Re: Eye damage)
Message:
yep,another thirtysomething.Don't like that term though because it reminds me of that show with all the whining and over dramatics.
Gotta say I do think paradise is great-compared to other sites this one has relatively few problems.
Well I didn't know how else to say it, altho perhaps "in your thirties" might have been better. My sister always said that the big weekly dramatic crisis on that "thirtysomething" show was something along the lines of "Honey, the BMW broke down! Sob!" (We didn't have a TV at the time so I didn't get to watch it much.)
P.S. Even more off topic - I just read a book called "Dark Star" about Jerry G. Have you ever read it? It certainly rearranged my cosmology. Now I think that Mountain Girl is God.
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Date: Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 22:18:27 (EST)
Poster: Baby Prem
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Born in the wrong time? (Re: Eye damage)
Message:
In '72 when I first heard about M I was only 8! Originally I had posted 10 or 12. I was thinking it was later, but it was in '72. (Eight was a long time ago) Is anyone else posting here 'thirtysomething'? Sincerely, Between the Baby Boomers and the Gen Xers -VP
Yeah, I know that I feel silly writing that I am one of the 'younger' people on the site when I am 41. It's true though. The reason is because so many college age people got knowledge in 1972 and 1973. You are the same age as my little bro. I think 'bftb' if he's still around, and 'And on Anand Ji' are thirty-something premies. Maybe there are some more.
P.S. How did you hear about GMJ when you were eight? I'm really interested.
Me too. I am 41. I received Knowledge when I was 17 and henceforth remained a celibate premie until I was 25! No mean feat for a Scorpionic male I am told. I often wonder about the younger premies, of course Daya, Premalata etc know nothing of the rigours that were put upon us by their father when condemned to his ashram.
Katie and Anon,
My aunt and uncle and some cousins had just received knowledge. They took my siblings and I to Satsung. I don't think that they ever told my parents that we were going there. (Maybe that we were going to a movie-which was true.) Later after we had gone a couple of times, I think that they did tell them. My parents were open minded and really had not heard anything about it anyway, because it was all so new. ( I think they even went a couple of times after we had gone several times just to check it out. I know that both of them read Who Is Guru M. later)
To make a long story shorter, we wee folks kept wanting to go to Satsang and we were allowed to go several times. We even went to some ashrams to visit. We were always invited to attend programs, but were not allowed to attend those. Then for some reason that was unknown to us at the time, we were no longer allowed to go anywhere-and certainly not to Satsang with these relatives anymore for a while.
Some major value talks began happening in our household. A lot of talks about stealing is wrong, giving your choices and life over to someone else for decision making is wrong, etc. We were told that we alone should control our own destiny as much as that was possible. We could certainly love others with different opinions and not condemn them. I know now that they knew we were very impressionable and were heading towards big trouble. I think that they knew some things that I still don't know to this day. They were right because the seeds were planted. They were really smart to pull in the parental reigns when they did.
Of course we love these people in our family very much and we always saw them/see them and kept/keep in contact with them. Satsang doesn't have to be in a formal setting, as you know. Phone calls, letters, even an afternoon visit or a birthday card was and sometimes still is an opportunity to talk about GMJ.
Dear VP,
It sounds like your parents were very wise people. I'm impressed. It sounds like they did things in such a way that you could continue to have a relationship with the premies in your family, which must have been a delicate situation, and one which it sounds like they handled quite diplomatically.
I'm assuming that your aunt and uncle and cousins still practice knowledge - is that true?
P.S. By the way, I keep thinking of you as 'Baby Prem' now. I'm sorry! As I said before, you are the same age as my brother and I still sometimes think of him as my 'baby brother' even though he's 33. (I NEVER say it to his face, though, as he is much bigger than me.)
Katie,
My parents are really great. I love them.
One of the family members that I mentioned committed suicide. One of them still practices K and attends some programs. She has a very successful buisness and has a family. I'll bet she doesn't even call herself a premie anymore. I know that she attends a christian fundamentalist church and her kids go to private religious schools. A couple more family members are very committed premies and a couple think that the whole thing is lame. It makes for some interesting reunions! One thing is for certain, a little tolerence in our family goes a long way. I guess that's why I don't have much patience with the human bashing that goes on occasionally on this site. It accomplishes nothing.
I think that I'm noticing a theme, someone correct me if I'm wrong. Did most of the current premies posting here join up after the reorganization-in other words, did they receive K after it was called Elan Vital? If so, that would explain why some of them don't understand the pain and disappointment that many ex-premies are experiencing here. (Though I believe op said that he/she could understand)
I mean the theme was " I am a Perfect Master, just like Christ and I'm going to bring Peace to this world" and then all of a sudden "Just kidding. It's only buisness now. Take down your shrines, leave your homes and I'll get back to you. You Westerners are way too uptight to relate to this Krishna costume so the next time you see me I'll be in a suit." Well, of course it was not that humorous. It was much deeper that that. More serious, of course.
It's okay to call me Baby Prem. It is kind of catchy, though I'm not really a premie. I have never been through a real initiation. I have never experienced a lot of the things that you all have. I did observe them first hand so it is a unique perspective, too. One thing that I really admire about your generation over mine is that so many of you were/are truth seekers at least at some point in your lives. My generation seems to be much more interested in keeping up with the Joneses. BMWs, Big Houses and great dinner parties (thank you, Martha Stewart) are more important to the thirtysomething crowd than enlightenment. I know that this is a gross generalization and a lot of it may actually be the part of the country that I am from, but there is a bit of truth in there, too. That probably explains why some of my postings are lame. (Though youth does afford me a few tricks up my sleeve.) I enjoy you wise 40-60 year olds a lot.
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Date: Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 22:24:19 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Born in 1964? (Re: Eye damage)
Message:
Katie-
This is totally off subject and out of sequence, but WHAT is going on with this site today? (Sorry for shouting) First, I couldn't get on site. Then I could get on, but not into the Forum. Now I'm in here, I can barely see the posts. Nothing is moving. Is it because there are so many users? I am new to this computer thing. -Baby Prem
I'm not sure what's going on. I have had a lot of trouble getting on the forum, but I thought that it was my Internet Service Provider, which can be glacially slow.
If you want to get to the forum directly the link is:
http://www.paradise-serve.com/powerforum/pwrforum.exe?who=anything&showall=ok
Copy that into your 'location' thingie, and bookmark it. That way you bypass the link between the ex-premie site and the forum (in case the link is broken, which it has been at times lately).
What do you mean by you 'can barely see the posts'? Explain, if you can. That sounds strange, and out of my ken, really. The webmaster's address is brian@ex-premie.org, if you really start to have a problem. Brian knows a LOT more about computers and related stuff than I do. (Haven't heard from him today - perhaps he's working on the site links or something, which may explain the problem).
I don't think it's a user problem. It might be a problem on your end (with your Internet Service Provider - ISP), that is.
hope this helps -
Katie
I meant to say that I the bar on the right of my computer not allowing me to scroll down the page-it kept sticking about halfway down. I could not get to all of the posts. My ISP was allowing me to get into other sites just fine today. I am pretty sure that it was this site or server that was having a problem. It is fine now. Thanks for the info.
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Date: Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 22:38:10 (EST)
Poster: bftb
Email:
To: Katie off topic
Subject: Re: Born in 1956 (Re: Eye damage)
Message:
I picked it up a couple of months ago but I keep getting distracted and have only read about 50 or so pages....so far.MG is cool isn't she?Apparently(heard it on a radio show)she will be an honorary judge at this years cannabis cup in amsterdam. She has to sample the various produce and decide which is best.Can you believe that?
If you liked dark star,you might want to check out 'living with the dead' by rock scully,who was their manager from the early days until 1985.The misery that drug abuse can cause is well pointed out in that book.He and jg were pretty much strung out junkies by '79.Fortunately I always knew it wasn't all sweetness and light,I just loved the music.
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Date: Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 22:41:13 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Baby Prem
Subject: Re: Born in the wrong time? (Re: Eye damage)
Message:
Dear VP/BP,
My husband is only five years older than you, so calling you Baby Prem is a little presumptuous on my part. Also, I work with 19, 20, and 21 year old students every day (I manage a lab), and I have learned a lot from them. So I think wisdom as a function of age is a relative thing. Also, I don't think that any of your posts have been "lame", although I haven't read them all that critically. I don't want to fight with op (she's a woman & op is short for "old premie" - she's been around since 1970, I believe, and has spent a lot of time with Maharaji. Correct me if I am wrong, op.), so I'll just say that most of the present posters have embarassed themselves thoroughly on one occasion or another. You haven't yet (but we're waiting!).
You asked about the current premies. Actually op, CD, and Mili received knowledge in the seventies, so they experienced the whole transition between DLM and EV first hand. (I'm not totally sure about Mili, but I believe that's true). The only person on the site that I know received K after the Elan Vital transition is bftb.
I wonder if it is true that our generation was really truth seekers. I remember being into spiritual stuff at age 14, and really longing to find GOD and the real reality. I remember reading the book "Be Here Now" and thinking that it was the TRUTH. All my friends were into it too - we used to do some pretty weird stuff trying to find enlightenment. And we were kind of at the end of the sixties generation, too. I'm not sure why things were like that back then. Perhaps part of it was the war, part of it was the availability of psychedelic drugs (and the way people used psychedelics). Maybe, as you say, part of it was the part of the country I grew up in (East Coast). Where are you from, by the way? If you can say, that is.
I'm glad you are liking the forum. Although we're really not ALL that old, you know!
Take care,
K
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Date: Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 22:51:18 (EST)
Poster: Katie off topic
Email:
To: bftb
Subject: Re: Born in 1956 (Re: Eye damage)
Message:
I picked it up a couple of months ago but I keep getting distracted and have only read about 50 or so pages....so far.MG is cool isn't she?Apparently(heard it on a radio show)she will be an honorary judge at this years cannabis cup in amsterdam. She has to sample the various produce and decide which is best.Can you believe that?
If you liked dark star,you might want to check out 'living with the dead' by rock scully,who was their manager from the early days until 1985.The misery that drug abuse can cause is well pointed out in that book.He and jg were pretty much strung out junkies by '79.Fortunately I always knew it wasn't all sweetness and light,I just loved the music.
I read all the Mountain Girl parts because someone said that they were worth the price of admission. She is great! Did you read Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test - she's in there too.
Mili told me about "Living with the Dead" and about all the heroin stuff. Rock Scully and his wife did contribute quite a bit to "Dark Star". Anyway, the book was kind of depressing to me because of JG's philandering and being a bad father (although his daughter did come out and say that he was a bad dad at his funeral! She's MG's daughter too, wouldn't you know?). I knew about the drug stuff, and I knew that he was a tormented person, but I didn't know about the other stuff.
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Date: Sun, Feb 1, 1998 at 23:10:45 (EST)
Poster: VP/BP
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Born in the wrong time? (Re: Eye damage)
Message:
Dear VP/BP,
My husband is only five years older than you, so calling you Baby Prem is a little presumptuous on my part. Also, I work with 19, 20, and 21 year old students every day (I manage a lab), and I have learned a lot from them. So I think wisdom as a function of age is a relative thing. Also, I don't think that any of your posts have been 'lame', although I haven't read them all that critically. I don't want to fight with op (she's a woman & op is short for 'old premie' - she's been around since 1970, I believe, and has spent a lot of time with Maharaji. Correct me if I am wrong, op.), so I'll just say that most of the present posters have embarassed themselves thoroughly on one occasion or another. You haven't yet (but we're waiting!).
You asked about the current premies. Actually op, CD, and Mili received knowledge in the seventies, so they experienced the whole transition between DLM and EV first hand. (I'm not totally sure about Mili, but I believe that's true). The only person on the site that I know received K after the Elan Vital transition is bftb.
I wonder if it is true that our generation was really truth seekers. I remember being into spiritual stuff at age 14, and really longing to find GOD and the real reality. I remember reading the book 'Be Here Now' and thinking that it was the TRUTH. All my friends were into it too - we used to do some pretty weird stuff trying to find enlightenment. And we were kind of at the end of the sixties generation, too. I'm not sure why things were like that back then. Perhaps part of it was the war, part of it was the availability of psychedelic drugs (and the way people used psychedelics). Maybe, as you say, part of it was the part of the country I grew up in (East Coast). Where are you from, by the way? If you can say, that is.
I'm glad you are liking the forum. Although we're really not ALL that old, you know!
Take care,
K
Katie,
You are right, age is a relative thing. I learn things from my own children, who are very young, each day. Wonderful things...magical, really.
Growing up there were no drugs available to us. A little pot, and of course alcohol. Nothing mind altering and really I wasn't interested enough to check into that. I was only interested in somehow getting K. I remember asking for it at about age 10 and being told that I was too young. I remember thinking that an age limit on knowing, seeing, hearing, feeling, and tasting God was absurd! It was like rating life PG-13.
After a while I filed this desire away. I discovered the opposite sex and various other interests. Graduated high school, graduated college, graduate school, etc. I'm really wrting a Journey entry here, aren't I?
Can't tell you where I'm from...maybe another time when I decide to reveal my true identity.
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 11:32:58 (EST)
Poster: Aspirant
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: new name
Message:
I just realized something...if I have K then I am not really an aspirant anymore. I am not really a premie either. Anyone think of a good name for a "web-premie"? (Boy, am I opening myself up for trouble, now!) I need a new pseudonym. Something nice, please.
I think Katie makes a good point , in the previous strand, about K being free and owned by no one. Your web site author should re-include that section on knowledge. Save someone else from the humiliation of the aspirant process. Answer the questions for people like me who heard "this is the Christ incarnate. He is Budda and Krishna. The Perfect Master." (There are plenty of us out here who were children or nephews/nieces of premies and are now grown up). Let everyone know that, no, actually this is meditation. That's it! Maybe it's for you, maybe it's not. Make up your own mind.
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 20:31:48 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@Mail.trib.net
To: Aspirant
Subject: Re: new name
Message:
I just realized something...if I have K then I am not really an aspirant anymore. I am not really a premie either. Anyone think of a good name for a 'web-premie'? (Boy, am I opening myself up for trouble, now!) I need a new pseudonym. Something nice, please.
I think Katie makes a good point , in the previous strand, about K being free and owned by no one. Your web site author should re-include that section on knowledge. Save someone else from the humiliation of the aspirant process. Answer the questions for people like me who heard 'this is the Christ incarnate. He is Budda and Krishna. The Perfect Master.' (There are plenty of us out here who were children or nephews/nieces of premies and are now grown up). Let everyone know that, no, actually this is meditation. That's it! Maybe it's for you, maybe it's not. Make up your own mind.
VP (virtual premie) sounds good to me, as long as you don't get confused with Al Gore (who might end up being P one of these days. Or just Virtual, or Veep, or whatever. Let us know, though!
Katie
P.S. thanks for telling me that I am nice.
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 21:38:48 (EST)
Poster: web
Email: **
To: Aspirant
Subject: bie (Re: new name)
Message:
how about human being?
hu-divine
man
being
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 22:04:28 (EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Aspirant
Subject: Re: new name
Message:
I never liked the term "premie" and I think a better and more exciting term would be a "multi" i.e. a multi-dimensional person. Thinking back to the meditation - staring into inky blackness can have its benefits. Actually, I do see light although it's not brighter than ten thousand suns and when I try to concentrate on it, it then goes away. Damn elusive stuff. I hear music too and what I do hear is pretty magical but hard to concentrate on.
It sounds like bells, birds singing and snatches of flutes playing. I don't do light and music in the prescribed manner and never have. My light technique is simply to put my finger just above my eyebrows where my third eye is supposed to be. I never touch my eyes. With music I just push my lower ear flaps in to block out any sound or if it's quiet I don't do any technique and just sit and listen.
I often find that both light and music get stronger when I'm not concentrating on them but am doing the third and fourth techniques. Often I just practise light and music in order to settle myself down for what is the real meditation for me, the third technique. I must admit, that when the music does come loudly it's pretty amazing.
Now here's something that will throw people. I suffer from allergies and chemical sensitivities which affect my brain. Once a doctor mistakingly gave me antidepressants for this and I took one. The effect of this drug was that I felt really horrible, like I'd just drunk two bottles of wine straight down but a side effect was that I heard music very, very loud indeed without even meditating. What's the explaination for that? Perhaps my rational mind was temporarily closed down and I was more able to hear what was already there. What is the music? Whatever it is, it's a completely natural phenomenon. Some people hear it more than others and perhaps that's dependant on our brain type or something.
For me personally, I like the full nectar technique as described in the kundalini yoga stuff I posted below. Perhaps it's no more than a convoluted sexual perversion or something but I like to do it. It takes all sorts doesn't it. I'm sure the nectar must release endorphines into the brain and body. That's what it feels like to me. Maybe one day I'll get a proper medical explaination about it and if I do, I'll post it here. What I like about the nectar is that I can do it and have a multidimensional experience without the effort of sitting down and doing formal meditation. That's great for a completely undisciplined guy like me.
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 23:17:11 (EST)
Poster: VP/Aspirant
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: new name
Message:
I just realized something...if I have K then I am not really an aspirant anymore. I am not really a premie either. Anyone think of a good name for a 'web-premie'? (Boy, am I opening myself up for trouble, now!) I need a new pseudonym. Something nice, please.
I think Katie makes a good point , in the previous strand, about K being free and owned by no one. Your web site author should re-include that section on knowledge. Save someone else from the humiliation of the aspirant process. Answer the questions for people like me who heard 'this is the Christ incarnate. He is Budda and Krishna. The Perfect Master.' (There are plenty of us out here who were children or nephews/nieces of premies and are now grown up). Let everyone know that, no, actually this is meditation. That's it! Maybe it's for you, maybe it's not. Make up your own mind.
VP (virtual premie) sounds good to me, as long as you don't get confused with Al Gore (who might end up being P one of these days. Or just Virtual, or Veep, or whatever. Let us know, though!
Katie
P.S. thanks for telling me that I am nice.
Katie- You are welcome. VP it is!
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 23:27:27 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Sir David
Subject: Re: new name
Message:
I never liked the term 'premie' and I think a better and more exciting term would be a 'multi' i.e. a multi-dimensional person. Thinking back to the meditation - staring into inky blackness can have its benefits. Actually, I do see light although it's not brighter than ten thousand suns and when I try to concentrate on it, it then goes away. Damn elusive stuff. I hear music too and what I do hear is pretty magical but hard to concentrate on.
It sounds like bells, birds singing and snatches of flutes playing. I don't do light and music in the prescribed manner and never have. My light technique is simply to put my finger just above my eyebrows where my third eye is supposed to be. I never touch my eyes. With music I just push my lower ear flaps in to block out any sound or if it's quiet I don't do any technique and just sit and listen.
I often find that both light and music get stronger when I'm not concentrating on them but am doing the third and fourth techniques. Often I just practise light and music in order to settle myself down for what is the real meditation for me, the third technique. I must admit, that when the music does come loudly it's pretty amazing.
Now here's something that will throw people. I suffer from allergies and chemical sensitivities which affect my brain. Once a doctor mistakingly gave me antidepressants for this and I took one. The effect of this drug was that I felt really horrible, like I'd just drunk two bottles of wine straight down but a side effect was that I heard music very, very loud indeed without even meditating. What's the explaination for that? Perhaps my rational mind was temporarily closed down and I was more able to hear what was already there. What is the music? Whatever it is, it's a completely natural phenomenon. Some people hear it more than others and perhaps that's dependant on our brain type or something.
For me personally, I like the full nectar technique as described in the kundalini yoga stuff I posted below. Perhaps it's no more than a convoluted sexual perversion or something but I like to do it. It takes all sorts doesn't it. I'm sure the nectar must release endorphines into the brain and body. That's what it feels like to me. Maybe one day I'll get a proper medical explaination about it and if I do, I'll post it here. What I like about the nectar is that I can do it and have a multidimensional experience without the effort of sitting down and doing formal meditation. That's great for a completely undisciplined guy like me.
You know, the more I read by ex-premies, the more I realize that so many of you are intellects. No wonder you wised-up. What amazes me is that, knowing what I know about myself and from what I am reading here, how anyone posting here could buy into everything that we did. I guess intellectuals are always on a quest for knowledge (note the absence of capital K) and that must make us want to try things that others won't. ("Sometimes I cannot get through the day without a juicy rationalization"-wasn't that in the Big Chill?) Sorry about my spelling. Too bad that Forum doesn't have spell check-Intellect and spelling don't necessarily go hand in hand.
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 23:38:42 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Sir David
Subject: Re: new name
Message:
I never liked the term 'premie' and I think a better and more exciting term would be a 'multi' i.e. a multi-dimensional person. Thinking back to the meditation - staring into inky blackness can have its benefits. Actually, I do see light although it's not brighter than ten thousand suns and when I try to concentrate on it, it then goes away. Damn elusive stuff. I hear music too and what I do hear is pretty magical but hard to concentrate on.
It sounds like bells, birds singing and snatches of flutes playing. I don't do light and music in the prescribed manner and never have. My light technique is simply to put my finger just above my eyebrows where my third eye is supposed to be. I never touch my eyes. With music I just push my lower ear flaps in to block out any sound or if it's quiet I don't do any technique and just sit and listen.
I often find that both light and music get stronger when I'm not concentrating on them but am doing the third and fourth techniques. Often I just practise light and music in order to settle myself down for what is the real meditation for me, the third technique. I must admit, that when the music does come loudly it's pretty amazing.
Now here's something that will throw people. I suffer from allergies and chemical sensitivities which affect my brain. Once a doctor mistakingly gave me antidepressants for this and I took one. The effect of this drug was that I felt really horrible, like I'd just drunk two bottles of wine straight down but a side effect was that I heard music very, very loud indeed without even meditating. What's the explaination for that? Perhaps my rational mind was temporarily closed down and I was more able to hear what was already there. What is the music? Whatever it is, it's a completely natural phenomenon. Some people hear it more than others and perhaps that's dependant on our brain type or something.
For me personally, I like the full nectar technique as described in the kundalini yoga stuff I posted below. Perhaps it's no more than a convoluted sexual perversion or something but I like to do it. It takes all sorts doesn't it. I'm sure the nectar must release endorphines into the brain and body. That's what it feels like to me. Maybe one day I'll get a proper medical explaination about it and if I do, I'll post it here. What I like about the nectar is that I can do it and have a multidimensional experience without the effort of sitting down and doing formal meditation. That's great for a completely undisciplined guy like me.
Oops! to answer your question "what is the music?" What I hear sounds like what I imagine the womb must sound like. There is this pulsing fluidy noise. I can hear all of the very loud noises that my body is making as it breathes, pulses, etc.. It is very interesting. I know that this is just my experience. Don't misunderstand, I like being in my mind, too.
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 23:43:17 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: web
Subject: Re: bie (Re: new name)
Message:
how about human being?
hu-divine
man
being
Great names, except VP is shorter. I like to think I am a hu-divine! Man is kind of politically incorrect, though-Ha! Ha!
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 00:27:15 (EST)
Poster: StephenB
Email: brusnton@tde.com
To: Sir David
Subject: Re: new name
Message:
I never liked the term 'premie' and I think a better and more exciting term would be a 'multi' i.e. a multi-dimensional person. Thinking back to the meditation - staring into inky blackness can have its benefits. Actually, I do see light although it's not brighter than ten thousand suns and when I try to concentrate on it, it then goes away. Damn elusive stuff. I hear music too and what I do hear is pretty magical but hard to concentrate on.
It sounds like bells, birds singing and snatches of flutes playing. I don't do light and music in the prescribed manner and never have. My light technique is simply to put my finger just above my eyebrows where my third eye is supposed to be. I never touch my eyes. With music I just push my lower ear flaps in to block out any sound or if it's quiet I don't do any technique and just sit and listen.
I often find that both light and music get stronger when I'm not concentrating on them but am doing the third and fourth techniques. Often I just practise light and music in order to settle myself down for what is the real meditation for me, the third technique. I must admit, that when the music does come loudly it's pretty amazing.
Now here's something that will throw people. I suffer from allergies and chemical sensitivities which affect my brain. Once a doctor mistakingly gave me antidepressants for this and I took one. The effect of this drug was that I felt really horrible, like I'd just drunk two bottles of wine straight down but a side effect was that I heard music very, very loud indeed without even meditating. What's the explaination for that? Perhaps my rational mind was temporarily closed down and I was more able to hear what was already there. What is the music? Whatever it is, it's a completely natural phenomenon. Some people hear it more than others and perhaps that's dependant on our brain type or something.
For me personally, I like the full nectar technique as described in the kundalini yoga stuff I posted below. Perhaps it's no more than a convoluted sexual perversion or something but I like to do it. It takes all sorts doesn't it. I'm sure the nectar must release endorphines into the brain and body. That's what it feels like to me. Maybe one day I'll get a proper medical explaination about it and if I do, I'll post it here. What I like about the nectar is that I can do it and have a multidimensional experience without the effort of sitting down and doing formal meditation. That's great for a completely undisciplined guy like me.
I also was given Anti-depressant10 months ago..took it for 4 days..ever since the the "music" has been stronger than it has ever been. When i go to sleep it almost overwhelms me. Thought for a while it was going to go too far. Still won't go away...interesting that you also experienced something sinilar.
StephenB
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 01:51:35 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: Aspirant
Subject: Re: new name
Message:
> Let everyone know that, no, actually this is meditation. That's it! Maybe it's for you, maybe it's not. Make up your own mind.
Yeah, like music is just banging on some metal strings.
Nothing to it.
Yeah, like you are just on the Earth and it is floating in the middle of infinite time and nowhere.
And Love is just a 4 letter word and God is just dog backwards.
Hey, this is easy!
CD
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 01:53:24 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: bie (Re: new name)
Message:
VP?
Virtually Perfect?
CD
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 08:23:50 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: CD
Subject: Re: bie (Re: new name)
Message:
VP?
Virtually Perfect?
CD
You've got it!
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 08:31:07 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: CD
Subject: Re: new name
Message:
> Let everyone know that, no, actually this is meditation. That's it! Maybe it's for you, maybe it's not. Make up your own mind.
Yeah, like music is just banging on some metal strings.
Nothing to it.
Yeah, like you are just on the Earth and it is floating in the middle of infinite time and nowhere.
And Love is just a 4 letter word and God is just dog backwards.
Hey, this is easy!
CD
You are right, as usual. I did leave out giving away your time, life and maybe money to service, kissing feet, etc. etc. I meant that it is only meditation that you are getting out of the agreement.
I take it that you are not an ex, and I cannot speak for the way that things are run now with the exception of the aspirant process and what I am reading in here. I do know that you cannot look up Elan Vital in the phone book and you cannot find premie.com on the internet. What is up with that? You don't really need to answer, but I think someone should.
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 09:57:11 (EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: StephenB
Subject: Re: new name
Message:
I think we've discovered something here. The way antideps work on the brain must somehow open up the music centre. This makes me wonder just what is the music? I have heard some people say that they hear music or harmony similar to how I described above when they have a near death experience. So when a part of the brain is switched off, music comes.
If some people still think that hearing music is dependent on "grace" then this contradicts that. Perhaps the ability to see light is also dependent upon brain chemistry.
On reflection I think that we haven't even begun to understand just what is happening from meditation. The Hindu religion will say that it's all the grace of Krishna or Shiva or Maharaji. They say that because that explaination fits in with their culture.
Us westerners think differently. We know that there is no sun god but a rational explaination for the sun. Similarly, there must be a rational explaination for the observation of light and music and the rest, that goes beyond superstition.
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 10:03:39 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Sir David
Subject: music (Re: new name)
Message:
I think we've discovered something here. The way antideps work on the brain must somehow open up the music centre. This makes me wonder just what is the music? I have heard some people say that they hear music or harmony similar to how I described above when they have a near death experience. So when a part of the brain is switched off, music comes.
If some people still think that hearing music is dependent on 'grace' then this contradicts that. Perhaps the ability to see light is also dependent upon brain chemistry.
On reflection I think that we haven't even begun to understand just what is happening from meditation. The Hindu religion will say that it's all the grace of Krishna or Shiva or Maharaji. They say that because that explaination fits in with their culture.
Us westerners think differently. We know that there is no sun god but a rational explaination for the sun. Similarly, there must be a rational explaination for the observation of light and music and the rest, that goes beyond superstition.
I hear the music clearly. I did not have M's grace to practise.
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 11:35:57 (EST)
Poster: Ms. K
Email:
To: Sir David
Subject: Re: new name
Message:
What kind of anti-depressants were you guys taking? There are a lot of different kinds, with varying side effects. I had an intense "acid flashback" type reaction with one of them". No music, though.(I think the drug was Serzone). Anyway, there are several groups of anti-depressants that act in different ways on the brain.
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 13:58:31 (EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Ms. K
Subject: Musical antidepressants (Re: new name)
Message:
I flushed them down the toilet but still have the bottle.
They were Amitriptyline. I think these kind of drugs are worse than useless. I was given it for an allergic reaction and it made me feel very depressed - the opposite to its name.
I have heard terrible stories about the long term effects of these drugs and would warn anyone against taking them.
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 16:19:29 (EST)
Poster: StephenB
Email:
To: Ms. K
Subject: Re: new name
Message:
What kind of anti-depressants were you guys taking? There are a lot of different kinds, with varying side effects. I had an intense 'acid flashback' type reaction with one of them'. No music, though.(I think the drug was Serzone). Anyway, there are several groups of anti-depressants that act in different ways on the brain.
Yes!
I also experienced an "acid flashback" on the antidepresant Zoloft. I think i remmember somewhere that the SSRIs come out of the reasearch on LSD from the 50s and 60s. I only took it four 4 days. Made me real wacky. How are you doing since then? I still struggle with the effects after 10 months. wish I had never met the psydoc who prescribed it for me.
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 18:07:29 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: new name
Message:
> I did leave out giving away your time, life and maybe money to service, kissing feet, etc. etc. I meant that it is only meditation that you are getting out of the agreement.
Some people give to recieve something of value.
For those people the giving is not a problem.
Not too many years back people said that computer science was not a proper subject for a college degree.
It was only programming.
And what is it with that golf game anyway?
Interesting how things of great value to some people can appear like nothing to others.
> I do know that you cannot look up Elan Vital in the phone book and you cannot find premie.com on the internet. What is up with that?
News and introductions are still transferred by word-of-mouth and chance events.
People who are interested can get information and watch Ms current teachings on videos if they want to.
A new music Compact Disk is available.
I saw my first poster in Paris in 72.
Wondered what the heck is that and then forgot about it until a chance event a few months later.
> I take it that you are not an ex
I have my fair share of doubts.
And I have my fair share of wonderful experiences and moments of understanding.
I haven't solved the universal field theory problem yet.
CD
India 72 - swam the Ganges
CDs web
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 18:46:06 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: StephenB
Subject: Re: new name
Message:
As soon as I discontinued taking Serzone (after one day) the "flashback" stuff stopped, thank god. I did tell my doctor, and she wanted me to write up my experience for the drug company since they hadn't reported any side effect like this previously. Maybe they didn't test the stuff on old druggies, who knows.
I think anti-depressants can be quite helpful - I know of situations where they have literally saved people's lives - but I don't think that they are the wonder drug that they are touted to be. They simply do not work for some people. AND I think that there are a lot more side effects than the drug companies want people to know about.
Not sure what that anti-depressant that David was taking was - I'll have to look it up. Some of the older ones (not SSRI's) had rotten side effects.
P.S. Zoloft, which is supposed to be so safe that they gave it to my 12-year-old nephew, made me even more depressed. By the way, it didn't help my nephew at all. He has attention deficit disorder without hyperactivity, which is usually treated with anti-depressants. (I know, every kid supposedly has ADD, but my nephew really did have it and was becoming depressed and non-functional as a result). He's now on Ritalin and doing really well, to my sister's great relief.
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 20:49:11 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: CD
Subject: Re: new name
Message:
> I did leave out giving away your time, life and maybe money to service, kissing feet, etc. etc. I meant that it is only meditation that you are getting out of the agreement.
Some people give to recieve something of value.
For those people the giving is not a problem.
Not too many years back people said that computer science was not a proper subject for a college degree.
It was only programming.
And what is it with that golf game anyway?
Interesting how things of great value to some people can appear like nothing to others.
> I do know that you cannot look up Elan Vital in the phone book and you cannot find premie.com on the internet. What is up with that?
News and introductions are still transferred by word-of-mouth and chance events.
People who are interested can get information and watch Ms current teachings on videos if they want to.
A new music Compact Disk is available.
I saw my first poster in Paris in 72.
Wondered what the heck is that and then forgot about it until a chance event a few months later.
> I take it that you are not an ex
I have my fair share of doubts.
And I have my fair share of wonderful experiences and moments of understanding.
I haven't solved the universal field theory problem yet.
CD
India 72 - swam the Ganges
CDs web
CD-
This is off of the subject, but I saw your list of recommended reading on your web site. Have you read The Dancing Wu Li Masters? It is probably out of date, but I thought it was an interesting introduction to Quantum physics. Especially the experiments with protons.
Hey, I know I can sound cynical at times. Thanks for putting a little perspective on things. I have known premies who led normal lives and gave zero to M. They gave up nothing and had successful businesses and families. They were the exception with the ones knew, though. Other premies I knew stole cars to get to festivals. Every cent they had went to M. I don't think M personally went to them and said "Sell all of your belongings and give me the cash." They felt guilted into it because of comments that he would make in his speeches. He did ask personally to name a friend of mine's child. They thought this was great. If the giving is not a problem then who am I to judge. ( Unless, of course, you have stolen my car.)
I agree with you on the golf-George Carlin does a great bit on it, if you like him.
I disagree with you on the issue that information is available out there if you are interested in Elan Vital. It has been my experience being pretty much on the outside, that everything is very hush-hush these days. Believe me, I have tried to get information. I do have some relatives who are premies, but I wanted to see what I could learn without contacting them. Zero.
What is the new CD? I guess the point I'm making is where is the contact for the general public who don't have access to premie connections? Why can't they find out about and receive K, too? Word of mouth and chance events aren't the way legitimate organizations operate. This is the way cults operate. Why doen't M go on Oprah? (Just joking, but you know what I mean)
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 22:42:07 (EST)
Poster: CD
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: new name
Message:
>Have you read The Dancing Wu Li Masters? It is probably out of dat
No I haven't read it.
I just looked it up and its available in book and audio.
I will order an audio cassett copy.
I have found audios a pretty nice way to absorb new stuff.
>Hey, I know I can sound cynical at times.
You don't sound bad.
Some people on this site portray me as ignorant, gullible slime.
I do contribute some money on a regular basis to support Elan Vital and local events.
I do not believe that their is any conspiracy for Elan Vital to be hush-hush these days.
It is pretty much as it has been for a long time, no public advertising.
People are encouraged to tell anybody that they know personally about it if they feel it is worthwhile.
You say that legitimat organizations operate differently.
Good for them.
I went to the illegitimate Long Beach 1997 event and had a great time.
I participate with local people on local bi-weekly events and it works out fine.
If you want to ask me any off-topic questions you can send me email: webmaster@cdickey.com
CD
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Date: Sat, Jan 31, 1998 at 23:19:18 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: Sir David
Subject: Re: Musical antidepressants (Re: new name)
Message:
I flushed them down the toilet but still have the bottle.
They were Amitriptyline. I think these kind of drugs are worse than useless. I was given it for an allergic reaction and it made me feel very depressed - the opposite to its name.
I have heard terrible stories about the long term effects of these drugs and would warn anyone against taking them.
Amitriptyline is Elavil (usually), which is an older antidepressant (not an SSRI - selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor - like Prozac, etc., and has many more side effects than SSRIs (or that's what they say anyway.) Just so you know that all the anti-depressant drugs aren't the same, in case someone you know ever has to take one.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 29, 1998 at 22:17:58 (EST)
Poster: Aspirant 4 25 years
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Web Site
Message:
I was exposed to knowledge when I was about 10 or 12 by a very influential adult in my life. I loved this person very much and bought into the whole idea of GMJ. I went to Satsang, etc. etc. Luckily I was from a very stable home and my parents knew that this was a cult and took a lot of time explaining that there are no simple answers in life. Anyway, I have always hungered for knowledge my whole life. I was happy to stumble upon your site one night in December and finally receive knowledge via the internet. I am happy to know that my parents were right. Keep up this web site because you helped me. I am no longer chasing the carrot. I think you should re-include the knowledge section that was formerly in this site. It might help someone else like me who might fall prey to the idea that there is something that they are missing and must have. Keep the mystery out of it. That is the one thing that M has going for him. I do have one question, though. I tried to meditate with the techniques, mainly out of curiosity, and I just don't get it. Maybe one of you ex-premies can explain this to me. Sincerely-An Aspirant for 25 years.
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 01:06:45 (EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Aspirant 4 25 years
Subject: Re: Web Site
Message:
Maybe you should have included the fifth technique which I mentioned below. But seriously, what don't you get?
I've found the third technique to be the easiest to get into although it can take a few days of practise before any benefit is felt. 10-15 minutes practise per day is better than struggling through a whole hour and then not trying it again.
Nectar takes one or two weeks of regular practise before you can get it right. Most premies just give up on the nectar after a few attempts. Similarly, light and music are practically impossible to meditate on if you can't actually see or hear anything. Nobody's going to keep that up for long.
I wrote an essay on the third technique which explains a lot and gives advice gleaned from my own experience. I could email it to you if you send me your email address or alternatively post it here (although I feel a little shy about showing such a document to premies, since it may arouse critisism from Maharaji premies).
Whatever you do, meditation is something you simply have to relax and grow into, at your own pace.
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 09:45:15 (EST)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Aspirant 4 25 years
Subject: Re: Web Site
Message:
I was exposed to knowledge when I was about 10 or 12 by a very influential adult in my life. I loved this person very much and bought into the whole idea of GMJ. I went to Satsang, etc. etc. Luckily I was from a very stable home and my parents knew that this was a cult and took a lot of time explaining that there are no simple answers in life. Anyway, I have always hungered for knowledge my whole life. I was happy to stumble upon your site one night in December and finally receive knowledge via the internet. I am happy to know that my parents were right. Keep up this web site because you helped me. I am no longer chasing the carrot. I think you should re-include the knowledge section that was formerly in this site. It might help someone else like me who might fall prey to the idea that there is something that they are missing and must have. Keep the mystery out of it. That is the one thing that M has going for him. I do have one question, though. I tried to meditate with the techniques, mainly out of curiosity, and I just don't get it. Maybe one of you ex-premies can explain this to me. Sincerely-An Aspirant for 25 years.
Aspirant 4 25 years's letter makes me consider how people can practically get inspired to practise meditation without the constant reminder of videos and programs etc.
Obviously as a premie for many years one arguably benefited from the enormous back-up system that went with the lifestyle. It is not surprising therefore to hear those who have learned of the techniques quickly via the web may be initially only superficially motivated to practice them. That is not however to justify Maharaji's system. On the contrary I suspect that it is quite possible to achieve a healthy social backup system for meditation aspirants without causing the suffering which we are hearing about.
It certainly took me a long time to become familiar enough with the subtle sensations of the breath etc. to start to enjoy meditation. I think at first it was pretty much a discipline and as such I am glad that I had some external encouragement but I rue the mental and emotional suffering that came along with it.
Someone once wrote (David I think) that when they first received Knowledge they went away to their seaside haven to meditate and continue their life minus the pressures of satsang and service etc. and that they had a marvellous experience that was marred only by their subsequent return to the crazy premie world in the town.
That was pretty much exactly my experience too. Ultimately my increasing involvement in Maharaji's set up seemed to take me further from the purity of my inner experience when isolated from the premie world and eventually ended up with my life being seriously and detrimentally (I feel) sidetracked, (even "highjacked" is not too strong a word) at a critical age, into full time service in the ashram. Maharaji is irrefutably responsible for the system that brought about my demise.
We live and learn. Nowadays premies flatter themselves that they have learned from their past mistakes and run a streamlined and unabusive aspirant program. From what I have seen I must disagree. Whilst many things have improved, it seems impossible for premies to get away from the more sinister practices (such as the secret initiation and the devilizing of the mind) without fundamentally rejecting Maharaji's way. (He is not about to do a U-turn on the basic premises of his Mastership. "A Master is a Master is a Master etc.")
One can only hope that the resilience of the human conscience will shine through in the long run and that premies will question a system that suppresses criticism, engenders some suffering and ostracism along the way and moreover claims to be directly and authoritatively promoting a revelation of the higher meaning of love and life itself.
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 10:07:20 (EST)
Poster: Aspirant
Email:
To: Sir David
Subject: Re: Web Site
Message:
Thanks for the offer! Please post it here if you change your mind. I wouldn't be too concerned if premies criticized your techniques- whatever works for the individual is what counts. Can't give my E-mail, my real name is in it and several of my relatives are premies. Don't want any hurt feelings. (Hey, sounds like I'm worried about criticism from premies, too. What a hypocrite I am today. Ha Ha!)
I have nothing against premies because we all believed the same things, but I am really glad that I can meditate if I choose without the whole"trip." For me, K is a personal thing-not really a religion like we were led to believe. I never understood how I should need M's grace to receive or practice K. But, I digress.
To really answer your question, I am loving the music-it's very relaxing. The third technique is great but sometimes my mind will wander. I have seen the light but it is hard to get it to come everytime. Once after meditating on the light, I couldn't see for a few minutes after opening my eyes! I definately can't get my tongue into my nasal passage without gagging- for me, this technique is not very relaxing or enlightening. Any hints are appreciated from anyone.
Another question for anyone, do a lot of you still practice K and just don't believe in M anymore or have you washed your hands of everything?
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 10:20:36 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Aspirant
Subject: Re: Web Site
Message:
Dear Aspirant - it actually sounds like you are experiencing quite a bit from the techniques! I received knowledge in 1972, officialy was a devotee of Maharaji for five years, and always struggled with the meditation. I got most benefit out of the "Word" meditation (BTW, Sir David, I think you should post your insights on the Word meditation on the site. Although we might have to call you Shri David then!).
Recently a person named Mike Addison posted on the site with some excellent thoughts about the word meditation. I will try to find some of those posts (assuming it's OK with Mike), and repost them.
I don't think Maharaji's meditation techniques, which are part of the Indian Radhasoami tradition (and are NOT exclusive property of Maharaji, are for everyone. I have found more benefit from other meditation/relaxation techniques, such as visualizing light, colors, etc. Also, if you are practicing the light technigue and cannot see for several minutes after stopping, I think you are pressing your eyes much too hard. This could be damaging to your eyes, so I'd advise that you stop. You also wrote about your "mind wandering" - I fear that this is common among all of us who try to meditate, premies or not. And the nectar techniques IS quite difficult, and I personally never experienced it (other people, like Sir David, have different experiences).
Best of luck to you in your continued search, and keep in touch,
Katie
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 10:21:00 (EST)
Poster: Aspirant
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: Web Site
Message:
You make a very valid point- I am a meditation aspirant. I have always wanted to meditate, but never wanted the lifestyle or the mental anguish or abuses that I saw members of my premie family (not my nuclear family) members living. In other words-I did not want to be a premie. I didn't see that as a relaxed or inspired lifestyle.
I think the M's way would give you a support system for meditation but from what I have heard, if you have any questions or doubts you are not very free to express them anyway, so that is not very helpful either. This has been much better.
In response to the aspirant process, I tried to enter it in college. I was given a phone number to call to attend a video. The message said that the the location of the videos had been suddenly changed and to keep calling for new information. The next day the number was disconnected It all felt wrong. It was so subversive, how could it be on the up and up? That was when I understood.
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 10:23:36 (EST)
Poster: Aspirant
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Web Site
Message:
Thanks! Everyone is right- you are nice!
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 13:02:43 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Aspirant
Subject: Re: Web Site
Message:
I think you didn't read the explanation of the techniques as they are shown today.
There is no need to put your tongue in your nasal passage.
Just relax: everything you want to feel is already there. You won't create anything.
Anyway, you're the 1st virtual premie, the 1st person receiving knowledge by the Internet's grace!
A major step in mankind history .....
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 13:08:25 (EST)
Poster: Joy
Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com
To: Aspirant
Subject: Re: Web Site
Message:
Dear aspirant,
I just want to tell you there are other sources of meditation instruction available besides Maharaji. The Tibetan Buddhist teacher Sogyal Rinpoche has a book called The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying, and Chapter 5, Bringing the Mind Home, contains about 20 pages of very good, helpful, FREE meditation instruction. All that anyone would ever need. So if anyone's interested in meditation, I suggest you check there and give Maharaji's style a pass. I don't think it's too wise to go practicing light, nectar etc. without qualified instruction, and to get that you have to buy into the Maharaji trip. The Buddhist/Zen meditation is very simple, doesn't have a lot of time requirements (i.e. you can start out with five minutes a day if that's all you can handle or want to do), and you can't really hurt yourself doing it. The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying is very "user-friendly" and readable (unlike the Tibetan Book of the Dead) and is available at any bookstore in paperback (I've even seen it at the airport bookstores). Best of luck to you, you sound like a really cool person.
P.S. to everyone: I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trying to push a Buddhist trip, because I'm not (I have had my difficulties with that teacher and his organization also). Just wanted to help "aspirant" to find a clean, concise source of meditation instruction and it's something I'm familiar with.
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 13:45:55 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Aspirant
Subject: Re: Web Site
Message:
You make a very valid point- I am a meditation aspirant. I have always wanted to meditate, but never wanted the lifestyle or the mental anguish or abuses that I saw members of my premie family (not my nuclear family) members living. In other words-I did not want to be a premie. I didn't see that as a relaxed or inspired lifestyle.
I think the M's way would give you a support system for meditation but from what I have heard, if you have any questions or doubts you are not very free to express them anyway, so that is not very helpful either. This has been much better.
In response to the aspirant process, I tried to enter it in college. I was given a phone number to call to attend a video. The message said that the the location of the videos had been suddenly changed and to keep calling for new information. The next day the number was disconnected It all felt wrong. It was so subversive, how could it be on the up and up? That was when I understood.
Yes, it appears that the "aspirant process" IS very subversive, a sure sign that what is being offered is not all that valuable in and of itself, but requires a gradual indoctrination, basically so that "devotion" to Maharaji, and the need for it, will seem logical and natural sometime down the road. THAT information is NOT disclosed to people at the beginning. Pure deceit if you ask me. It's kind of like the story of the frog in a pan of water that very gradually gets warmer. The frog will stay in the water and be boiled to death, because each gradual, increase in temperature is adapted to one increment at a time. In the end, one might wonder how you could enter an aspirant program just wanting a nice, internal experience, and come out the other side wanting to kiss Maharaji's feet and serve him selflessly.
And the rudiments of this deceit existed even back in the 70s. We were constantly devising "aspirant programs" based on the latest theory coming down from Maharaji and PAM. If you analyze what was really going on, we were told to only tell interested people PART of what the whole trip was about. We only talked about the nice experience and never about the devotional trip or the fact that we believed Maharaji was the incarnation of god. And if you watch one of those intro videos in which Maharaji speaks, you find that he says almost nothing, except that there is "something so beautiful."
In regard to your other questions, about whether ex-premies continue to practice meditation, I can tell you that for most of the 10 years I was a premie, I was pretty disciplined about practicing meditation every day. And I had what I would call some "nice" experiences doing meditation. But what I found out is that the meditation experience, for me, can be nice, but it is also limited. I think meditation is nothing more than a tool to slow your mind down, and that can be beneficial and enjoyable in some circumstances. But there are lots of ways to do the same thing, and it certainly doesn't require devoting your life to another human being.
For example, for years I was a marathon runner and I still run regularly. In the course of running I often get so concentrated on my breath that my mind slows to the point that I experience more than I ever did in "sitting" meditation. And it's very nice and I think it helps me in other areas of my life. I never experienced "nectar" despite practicing it for many years, and I basically think light and music techniques are cheap gimicks. One is the result of pressing the optical nerve and the other is listening to your blood flow. But, like anything else, if you concentrate on that, you might experience a slowing of the mind and thought processes and some people find it enjoyable.
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 14:26:08 (EST)
Poster: Aspirant
Email:
To: Joy
Subject: Re: Web Site
Message:
Dear Joy,
Thank you very much for this information and for the nice compliment. Sometimes I feel very un-cool for having believed some of the things that I have believed in the past. (M is God incarnate, etc.) Probably unlike a lot of people, I was told all of the religious stuff right up front. It was always the stuff I doubted but at the same time, "wouldn't you like to know what Christ really came here and taught?" was mighty tempting, especially for a child. I must say that when I found this site I did feel a lot better about never going ahead and receiving K. I felt that my instincts of distrust were justified here.
P.S. For everyone- Sorry that I have been hogging this site, I guess I am kind of going through a little de-programming of my own lately.
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 15:15:14 (EST)
Poster: Aspirant
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Web Site
Message:
You make a very valid point- I am a meditation aspirant. I have always wanted to meditate, but never wanted the lifestyle or the mental anguish or abuses that I saw members of my premie family (not my nuclear family) members living. In other words-I did not want to be a premie. I didn't see that as a relaxed or inspired lifestyle.
I think the M's way would give you a support system for meditation but from what I have heard, if you have any questions or doubts you are not very free to express them anyway, so that is not very helpful either. This has been much better.
In response to the aspirant process, I tried to enter it in college. I was given a phone number to call to attend a video. The message said that the the location of the videos had been suddenly changed and to keep calling for new information. The next day the number was disconnected It all felt wrong. It was so subversive, how could it be on the up and up? That was when I understood.
Yes, it appears that the 'aspirant process' IS very subversive, a sure sign that what is being offered is not all that valuable in and of itself, but requires a gradual indoctrination, basically so that 'devotion' to Maharaji, and the need for it, will seem logical and natural sometime down the road. THAT information is NOT disclosed to people at the beginning. Pure deceit if you ask me. It's kind of like the story of the frog in a pan of water that very gradually gets warmer. The frog will stay in the water and be boiled to death, because each gradual, increase in temperature is adapted to one increment at a time. In the end, one might wonder how you could enter an aspirant program just wanting a nice, internal experience, and come out the other side wanting to kiss Maharaji's feet and serve him selflessly.
And the rudiments of this deceit existed even back in the 70s. We were constantly devising 'aspirant programs' based on the latest theory coming down from Maharaji and PAM. If you analyze what was really going on, we were told to only tell interested people PART of what the whole trip was about. We only talked about the nice experience and never about the devotional trip or the fact that we believed Maharaji was the incarnation of god. And if you watch one of those intro videos in which Maharaji speaks, you find that he says almost nothing, except that there is 'something so beautiful.'
In regard to your other questions, about whether ex-premies continue to practice meditation, I can tell you that for most of the 10 years I was a premie, I was pretty disciplined about practicing meditation every day. And I had what I would call some 'nice' experiences doing meditation. But what I found out is that the meditation experience, for me, can be nice, but it is also limited. I think meditation is nothing more than a tool to slow your mind down, and that can be beneficial and enjoyable in some circumstances. But there are lots of ways to do the same thing, and it certainly doesn't require devoting your life to another human being.
For example, for years I was a marathon runner and I still run regularly. In the course of running I often get so concentrated on my breath that my mind slows to the point that I experience more than I ever did in 'sitting' meditation. And it's very nice and I think it helps me in other areas of my life. I never experienced 'nectar' despite practicing it for many years, and I basically think light and music techniques are cheap gimicks. One is the result of pressing the optical nerve and the other is listening to your blood flow. But, like anything else, if you concentrate on that, you might experience a slowing of the mind and thought processes and some people find it enjoyable.
You are right, balance in life is so important. I have a wonderful spouse and great kids. I run, paint, garden, read, cook. Love is in so many things. It is all around us and available everywhere. Opening myrself up to life is what is so important for me. Being present to the moments and the changes that happen. Meditation may just be another part of this. I may find that it is unnecessary and that's okay, too.
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 19:47:49 (EST)
Poster: Aspirant
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: Web Site
Message:
You don't sound too sure whether or not that is a good thing. If it makes you feel any better, I promise not to open up a "virtual darshan line" or offer you any "virtual service" and I'm sure that this site cannot perform "virtual Holi"! Ha!Ha! I think that I will change my posting name to VP though. It's shorter than Aspirant.
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 22:35:16 (EST)
Poster: Sir David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Joy
Subject: Re: Web Site
Message:
Do the meditation techniques you mention in the Tibetan book of the Living And dead, bear any relation to the combination of Raj and Kundalini yoga techniques given in the knowledge?
Bye the way, when I was revealed K by Prakash Bai Ji and she pressed against my eyeballs I thought, this is some pretty wierd knowledge! Like I already knew that when I rubbed my eyes I could see light and I knew it was retina light. I think THAT light technique was exclusive to Maharaji. No Kundilini or Raj yoga methods suggest pressing on the eyes, rather they suggest just looking.
A few years later, when the light technique was suddenly changed to a less severe method, I was having serious doubts about whether Maharaji or the initiators knew what they were talking about.
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Date: Thurs, Jan 29, 1998 at 17:16:17 (EST)
Poster: Preliminary Info
Email: joger02@aol.com
To: Everyone
Subject: DLM/Elan Vital
Message:
I don't know why I didn't check into this sooner, but here is some preliminary information on Elan Vital, Inc. from the California Secretary of State.
What is now known as "Elan Vital, Inc." was incorporated on 7/26/72 as a Colorado non-profit corporation. It was then known as "Divine Light Mission, Inc." On 2/20/86 the name was changed from DLM to Elan Vital. Accordingly, contrary to what I believed (and as Ros Sutton told the newspapers in Australia) there never WAS any dissolution of Divine Light Mission, Maharaji just changed the name to Elan Vital. It is still the same corporation.
The president is listed as Linda S. Gross located in Miami Beach, Florida, but the registered agent is Linda S. Gross located in Santa Monica, California. I'm not sure how she can be in both places at the same time. The mailing address is P.O. Box 6130, Malibu, CA 90264.
I'm getting the list of officers and directors, and I think that a non-profit has to do a filing with the IRS indicating it's revenues and what all officers and employees are paid. I'll look into that as well and let everyone know what I find out.
JW
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 03:54:13 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Preliminary Info
Subject: Re: DLM/Elan Vital
Message:
Great!
regarding your question in the next thread
What I heard is that Visions International is a part of EV Inc.: why don't you check if it's incorporated or not?
Why don't you do the same thing for Amtext Inc. and
National Safety Association? Let's see if some instructors of m's family members or anybody else appears in their boards. And what about their cashflow? Could give a fair idea of what these companies are about.
Why not Mr Prempal Rawat income? there is nothing secret about it .....
'Somebody' is going to be furious about this ....
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Date: Fri, Jan 30, 1998 at 05:54:05 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Some more info ...
Subject: Re: DLM/Elan Vital
Message:
and what about Wahadamar Inc.?
that was definitely a company made by the Rawat's
family to get those videos copyrights ....
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Date: Mon, Feb 2, 1998 at 17:54:14 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email: joger02@aol.com
To: Everyone
Subject: DLM/Elan Vital
Message:
More "preliminary information" on the corporate/tax status of DLM/Elan Vital from the California Secretary of State.
As I mentioned earlier, DLM was incorporated in Colorado in 1972 and in 1986 its name was changed to "Elan Vital."
I just got a copy of the original "statement of corporation" filed with the state. The specific business purposes of DLM/ELan Vital are:
"To provide and operate an institution dedicated to the uplifting of humanity from the sufferings of ignorance by giving the Knowledge of God as revealed by the Perfect Master, Balyogeshwar Parm Hans Sat Gurudev Shri Sant Ji Maharaj..."
AHEM>>>>
The location of the "main office" is good old 1560 Race Street in Denver, and the form is signed by "Robert Mishler, President."
There are various amendments (mostly address changes) also filed, which are signed by Sheldon Kaplan (VP), C.S. McNary (secy, she's the one who I talked about who considered suicide during her initiator training program), William Svob (VP), and Dennis Marciniak (VP) (in my opinion, a very nice and decent guy.)
Then on 2/20/86 the name is changed from DLM to Elan Vital on a form signed by Elaine S. Brewington (VP).
Then, on May 5, 1997, there is a new statment filed showing the "new" business of the corporation, as "nonprofit educational seminars, conferences, conventions and meetings." [Geez, kind of mundane given the earliar purpose of the organizaton.]
The CEO is listed as Linda Gross and the Secretary/Treasurer is Kathie Thomas. The company is still listed as a non-profit corporation.
There is also a letter with the documents I received from the Franchise Tax Board stating that DLM qualified as a tax-exempt religious organization. But when I called the Registrar of Charitable Trusts, they said they were told by ELan Vital in 1989 that they were no longer functioning as a religious or charitable non-profit corporation and hence did not have to make the requisite filings. I am following up with the Franchist Tax Board regarding this and I will let you know.
JW
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Date: Mon, Feb 2, 1998 at 21:18:11 (EST)
Poster: Bored Stiff
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: DLM/Elan Vital
Message:
Interesting reading Sherlock. God I wish guys like you'd do something responsible with your life. Fuck!!!
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Date: Mon, Feb 2, 1998 at 23:07:53 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email: joger02@aol.com
To: Bored Stiff
Subject: Re: DLM/Elan Vital
Message:
Interesting reading Sherlock. God I wish guys like you'd do something responsible with your life. Fuck!!!
Dear Mr. Bored:
Sorry I didn't provide you with something you found more entertaining, but then that wasn't my purpose. It was, however, my purpose to piss you off and appears I have suceeded. Thanks for the feedback.
JW
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Date: Tues, Feb 3, 1998 at 00:57:55 (EST)
Poster: Joy
Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com
To: Bored Stiff
Subject: Re: DLM/Elan Vital
Message:
Go read something more interesting, then, like Maharaji's satsang. Talk about snooze time. I think Joe's doing great detective work here. Joe, if Elan Vital is not a nonprofit, does that mean it's filing income taxes as a corporation or business, and are you looking into getting ahold of those? Like I told you earlier, I'd bet any personal income GMJ may have is probably squirrelled away in untraceable private accounts and EV tax return info probably won't yield anything too out of the ordinary. It'd be interesting to see, though. And I think exposing the fraud and charlatanism of GMJ is a very worthwhile thing to do with your life, as it helps others not to be deceived by him. Bored stiff can go be bored elsewhere, please.
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Date: Tues, Feb 3, 1998 at 05:52:22 (EST)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Bored Stiff
Subject: Re: DLM/Elan Vital
Message:
Interesting reading Sherlock. God I wish guys like you'd do something responsible with your life. Fuck!!!
I think that there is a pattern emerging here.
Every time someone relly touches a premie nerve, there appears (almost like clockwork in its predictability and regularity) a desperate and forlornly insubstantial little outburst from the piqued person!
It's a bit like Saddam Hussein's envoy trying to resurrect some appearance of moral standing by appearing terribly appalled and shocked that the British prime minister, Blair, described Hussein with a nasty adjectives (evil).
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Date: Tues, Feb 3, 1998 at 09:38:16 (EST)
Poster: Well..He's got a point
Email: Stalefish
To: Joy
Subject: Lets just dance ..Tra la la la la (Re: DLM/Elan Vital)
Message:
Go read something more interesting, then, like Maharaji's satsang. Talk about snooze time. I think Joe's doing great detective work here. Joe, if Elan Vital is not a nonprofit, does that mean it's filing income taxes as a corporation or business, and are you looking into getting ahold of those? Like I told you earlier, I'd bet any personal income GMJ may have is probably squirrelled away in untraceable private accounts and EV tax return info probably won't yield anything too out of the ordinary. It'd be interesting to see, though. And I think exposing the fraud and charlatanism of GMJ is a very worthwhile thing to do with your life, as it helps others not to be deceived by him. Bored stiff can go be bored elsewhere, please.
:-)
Schools out for summer, nanananana. Schools out for ever, nanananana Schools been blown to PIECES.
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Date: Tues, Feb 3, 1998 at 17:05:35 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Joy
Subject: Re: DLM/Elan Vital
Message:
Go read something more interesting, then, like Maharaji's satsang. Talk about snooze time. I think Joe's doing great detective work here. Joe, if Elan Vital is not a nonprofit, does that mean it's filing income taxes as a corporation or business, and are you looking into getting ahold of those? Like I told you earlier, I'd bet any personal income GMJ may have is probably squirrelled away in untraceable private accounts and EV tax return info probably won't yield anything too out of the ordinary. It'd be interesting to see, though. And I think exposing the fraud and charlatanism of GMJ is a very worthwhile thing to do with your life, as it helps others not to be deceived by him. Bored stiff can go be bored elsewhere, please.
I am told that as a non-profit DLM/EV was required to file a Form 199 (Exempt Organization Annual Information Statement) which is supposed to give revenues as well as a list of employees and their salaries. I am in the process of getting these if they exist.
But the Registrar of Chairtable Trusts is supposed to have records of this and they told me that as of 1989, EV said it was no longer a charitable non-profit, despite a filing in 1997, that tells the state it remains a non-profit corporation. Sounds kind of fishy to me. I'll see what the Franchise Tax Board has to say.
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Date: Tues, Feb 3, 1998 at 18:14:38 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Bored Stiff
Subject: Re: hypocrite? (Re: DLM/Elan Vital)
Message:
Interesting reading Sherlock. God I wish guys like you'd do something responsible with your life. Fuck!!!
"guys like you?"
I am assuming you are a premie, so here's a quote from M for you to meditate on: (no pun intended)
"It would be wonderful if human beings respected themselves, each other, and nature. It would be wonderful if there were no wars, if there were no hunger, suffering, or ignorance. It would be wonderful if human beings knew and loved peace. And it would be wonderful if people did not have to lie to protect themselves." GMJ 1995
Hmmmm...
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Date: Tues, Feb 3, 1998 at 20:07:22 (EST)
Poster: JW -- off subject
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: DLM/Elan Vital
Message:
It's a bit like Saddam Hussein's envoy trying to resurrect some appearance of moral standing by appearing terribly appalled and shocked that the British prime minister, Blair, described Hussein with a nasty adjectives (evil).
Anon, this is off subject, but I am interested.
Is the press in Britain on the same relentless drumbeat to war with Iraq that the press is here in the states? The editorials here, notably William Safire in the NY Times, are calling for Sadam's blood and recommending a "ground war" to eliminate him from power. [Notwithstanding this would be illegal under International Law.] Apprently mere bombing (we dropped 88,000 tons of explosives the last time around) isn't considered enough. I'm a little troubled by this, because I hear few dissenting voices.
But it seems Madeline Albright hasn't been too successful in lining up the old coalition that Mr. Bush put together, except for Mr. Blair. It appears the French, the Russians and most of our allies in the Middle East, except Israel of course, do not have the stomach for it.
But it sure seems like we are being prepared for an attack from what I read in the press here.
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Date: Tues, Feb 3, 1998 at 20:29:25 (EST)
Poster: JW
Email: joger02@aol.com
To: To Brian
Subject: Re: DLM/Elan Vital
Message:
Brian, maybe I should send to you copies all the government documents I get as I get them. They have interesting dates and comments on them, and you may decide to use them on the site. I think it makes sense for you to have copies. Can you e-mail me your address? BTW -- if anyone else would like copies of this stuff just e-mail me your addresses as well.
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Date: Wed, Feb 4, 1998 at 04:48:15 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: DLM/Elan Vital
Message:
I find all this EXTREMELY interesting.
I can't wait for what you're going to dig out ....
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