Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum II Archive # 11 | |
From: Mar 21, 1998 |
To: Mar 28, 1998 |
Page: 4 Of: 5 |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 17:47:38 (EST)
Poster: Helpless Email: To: Everyone Subject: Help! Message: I am afraid to even write this - especially because it it the internet and I am afraid I will be identified, but here goes....I am in love with a long-time M follower. When we were dating I was told about the meditation, and a couple of trips each year to visit the 'teacher.' It sounded harmless enough. I have been to a few video events - enough to know that the message is simple and true, but does not account for the devotion given to this man! My love recently returned from a small & selective meeting with M and started saying all sorts of nonsence about the shallowness of me and our relationship. Over the past year my love has also started donating enormous financial gifts. I believe that the recent invitation was only to suck up to the really big givers. I am talking about a truely wonderful person, but I feel helpless and don't know where to turn. I have been told that I am not as important as M and 'the work!' Please talk to me. I remain, Helpless Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 18:00:07 (EST)
Poster: Student Email: To: Helpless Subject: Re: Help! Message: I am afraid to even write this - especially because it it the internet and I am afraid I will be identified, but here goes....I am in love with a long-time M follower. When we were dating I was told about the meditation, and a couple of trips each year to visit the 'teacher.' It sounded harmless enough. I have been to a few video events - enough to know that the message is simple and true, but does not account for the devotion given to this man! My love recently returned from a small & selective meeting with M and started saying all sorts of nonsence about the shallowness of me and our relationship. Over the past year my love has also started donating enormous financial gifts. I believe that the recent invitation was only to suck up to the really big givers. I am talking about a truely wonderful person, but I feel helpless and don't know where to turn. I have been told that I am not as important as M and 'the work!' Please talk to me. I remain, Helpless I have a 25 year relationship with Maharaji. I recently had to let go of a potential relationship with someone who has no interest in trying to understand Maharaji's simple and true message. That is not my only reason, there were other problems. I am starting to recognize that I can only commit to a relationship where my partner also has or seeks a relationship with Maharaji. That simplicity and truth, and yes, that devotion is my relationship with my own soul. If you trust the simple and true message but your partner's devotion to Maharaji frightens you consider this: If you want the relationship to work, don't make your partner choose. Let go of your fear of that devotion, or let go of your partner. You may never understand why your partner is devoted to Maharaji. Many people here will tell you why your partner should leave Maharaji. Only a few here can try to explain why he or she shouldn't. Only Maharaji can show you why he or she shouldn't. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 18:00:28 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Helpless Subject: Re: Help! Message: I am afraid to even write this - especially because it it the internet and I am afraid I will be identified, but here goes....I am in love with a long-time M follower. When we were dating I was told about the meditation, and a couple of trips each year to visit the 'teacher.' It sounded harmless enough. I have been to a few video events - enough to know that the message is simple and true, but does not account for the devotion given to this man! My love recently returned from a small & selective meeting with M and started saying all sorts of nonsence about the shallowness of me and our relationship. Over the past year my love has also started donating enormous financial gifts. I believe that the recent invitation was only to suck up to the really big givers. I am talking about a truely wonderful person, but I feel helpless and don't know where to turn. I have been told that I am not as important as M and 'the work!' Please talk to me. I remain, Helpless Who wrote this - let me guess: Mr Ex, Jim, 'Bill Burke'? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 18:07:55 (EST)
Poster: Helpless Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: Help! Message: I wrote this message. This is the first time I have written, and you have never heard from me before. I have no hidden aganda, and no point to get across, unlike the two responses I have had to my first, very sincere request for help to understand. As you all have read, one student suggest letting go of the most important relationship in my life since I have problems accepting M. I want to know how this man (M) can convince a rational person that giving all to HIM can possibly be better than home, family and a loving partner. Supposedly, M has never said that his followers should not have relationships. So why is this happening???!!! Still Helpless Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 18:16:56 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: To: Student Subject: Re: Help! Message: I am afraid to even write this - especially because it it the internet and I am afraid I will be identified, but here goes....I am in love with a long-time M follower. When we were dating I was told about the meditation, and a couple of trips each year to visit the 'teacher.' It sounded harmless enough. I have been to a few video events - enough to know that the message is simple and true, but does not account for the devotion given to this man! My love recently returned from a small & selective meeting with M and started saying all sorts of nonsence about the shallowness of me and our relationship. Over the past year my love has also started donating enormous financial gifts. I believe that the recent invitation was only to suck up to the really big givers. I am talking about a truely wonderful person, but I feel helpless and don't know where to turn. I have been told that I am not as important as M and 'the work!' Please talk to me. I remain, Helpless I have a 25 year relationship with Maharaji. I recently had to let go of a potential relationship with someone who has no interest in trying to understand Maharaji's simple and true message. That is not my only reason, there were other problems. I am starting to recognize that I can only commit to a relationship where my partner also has or seeks a relationship with Maharaji. That simplicity and truth, and yes, that devotion is my relationship with my own soul. If you trust the simple and true message but your partner's devotion to Maharaji frightens you consider this: If you want the relationship to work, don't make your partner choose. Let go of your fear of that devotion, or let go of your partner. You may never understand why your partner is devoted to Maharaji. Many people here will tell you why your partner should leave Maharaji. Only a few here can try to explain why he or she shouldn't. Only Maharaji can show you why he or she shouldn't. No, Student, I think you got it wrong. At least, I wouldn't try to tell Helpless why their partner should leave maharaji. But I can't help but notice your blind insensitivity to someone who is possibly losing someone they love, and taking the opportunity to blather your dogma, as though this person's feelings couldn't possibly size up to the great maharaji, or someone's devotion for him. However, I'm sure you made things a little clearer for this person. If it wasn't for the pain you just caused, I'd say thank you. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 18:23:46 (EST)
Poster: Student Email: To: Helpless Subject: No hidden agenda now (Re: Help!) Message: Home, family, and a loving partner are wonderful and not to be shunned. But, if your partner feels about Maharaji as I do, and if you will always fear and question those feelings toward Maharaji, there is a fundamental rift between you. You will probably get moral support in your helplessness here. How Maharaji has 'convinced' your partner to be devoted will undoubtedly be explained in logical and maybe even emotional detail. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 18:27:10 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: Helpless Subject: Re: Help! Message: Helpless, FYI,Mili and Student are premies. I too loved someone who was a premie. Not in a romantic way, but this person was a member of my family. I can totally empathize with feeling helpless and unable to relate to the strong feelings that this a person you love has for M. I can understand the concern that you have for the financial donations and the other trappings your friend is apparently falling into. I don't really know what to tell you to do, but I did want you to know that you aren't alone. For what it is worth others have been here, too. I hope that someone on here will have some practical advice to offer you. I would encourage you to read 'The Guru Papers' by Joel Kramer and Diane Alstad. I also would say that I wouldn't attend any programs that you feel uncomfortable with. I wouldn't go against anything that you know to be true in your own heart and mind, not even to 'save' your relationship. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 18:29:08 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Helpless Subject: Re: Help! Message: I wrote this message. This is the first time I have written, and you have never heard from me before. I have no hidden aganda, and no point to get across, unlike the two responses I have had to my first, very sincere request for help to understand. As you all have read, one student suggest letting go of the most important relationship in my life since I have problems accepting M. I want to know how this man (M) can convince a rational person that giving all to HIM can possibly be better than home, family and a loving partner. Supposedly, M has never said that his followers should not have relationships. So why is this happening???!!! Still Helpless Helpless: I normally choose a part of a message and then write a response to that. I can't figure out what part of your message is the key? I guess the essence of the problem that confronts you is that the devotional relationship to Maharaj Ji insinuates itself in front of, or in priority over, all other relationships. I once had a relationship with a lovely person who believed in space aliens. I tried to act as though I believed too, but just couldn't bring it off. It sounds silly now, but I actually thought there was something wrong with me. She eventually found someone who was either a better liar, or who offered her a kind of acceptance I didn't. I don't think you're helpless. I think it's just your turn to make a decision. There are people here who can present the other side of the decision tree... those who figured out a way to hang in there and wait it out, or who were in the place of your 'love.' It sounds trite, but sometimes you have to let go of something in order to have it. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 18:33:34 (EST)
Poster: Helpless Email: To: VP Subject: Re: Help! Message: Thank you for answering my message. I had hoped to meet someone who had experienced this. For the last couple of months my world has been divided between all the friends and relatives I have from the real world who would think I am crazy for wanting to be with someone who is in a 'cult,' and those friends of my partner who cannot understand why I don't fall into the 'love' they feel. I am a deeply spiritual person, and more open minded than most (I think). But how do I reconcile my deep committment to this relationship when I have been told (and I have also belived this to be true) that I am not the priority, but that a fat rich cult leader is the object of true loyality??? I know that is a redundant question, or not really a question at all. I need to talk to someone. I am afraid of ending up in never-ending therapy. Helpless Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 18:45:10 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Helpless Subject: Re: Help! Message: Dear Helpless, I wouldn't go against anything that you know to be true in your own heart and mind, not even to 'save' your relationship. I think VP's statement is so true. You must remain true to yourself. This is tough on you as I can imagine. I wish I could say do this or that and your problem will dissolve but that is unlikely. Your 'love' will have to come to their sences in their own time if it is to happen but don't 'fake' it for love because that won't work either. Sorry you are facing this and even if we can't give answeres I hope we can give our support as you go through this trial. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 18:46:45 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: Helpless Subject: Re: Help! Message: Supposedly, M has never said that his followers should not have relationships. So why is this happening???!!! Yes. M may be important to your partner but that should not preclude you also being important. If you are tolerant to your partners interest and actions regarding supporting M then your partner should have tolerance towards you and not require that you take the same interest in M. The 2 of you need to communicate. There will be some friction because of the competition for scarce resources. If you attack your partner because of the high involvement with M then you may run into a defense mechanism. If there is mutual respect and honesty then it should work out for both of you. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 18:48:06 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: Helpless Subject: Re: Help! Message: Helpless, I can relate to this so well! I was divided between some family members who told me this was a cult and some who told me that this was the real thing and I didn't know who to believe because I was, like you, very open minded spiritually. I was only a child! I have had issues to deal with my whole life because of this and up until a few months ago, was still questioning all of it. Unfortunatly from what I have heard on here and from what I have been reading in 'The Guru Papers' (a book) cult leaders have to isolate their members somewhat or they will listen to society (like all of your other friends) and then they will question and doubt and leave the cult. It's kind of hard to be in a relationship with someone who puts a cult leader first isn't it? You are right about that! There are plenty of people here who will be happy to talk to you and work things out with you whenever you need to talk. Know this, you aren't the one who is going crazy, ok? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 18:48:54 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Student Subject: Re: No hidden agenda now (Re: Help!) Message: Your partner's fanatical devotion is probably only a passing phase. I don't know his history (I'm assuming it's a him and you're a her) but if you question him about his past you may see either fluctuations in his devotion to Maharaji if he's been a premie (devotee) for a long time. If he has just gotten into the whole trip then his extreme devotion might only last for a short time. In the past, I was persuaded to break off relationships by the Maharaji religion. I later regretted bitterly having done such a thing. Sooner or later your partner will make a 180 degree turn and if you can hang in there for that long, he will be glad you're still around. I think much of how your partner feels is dependent upon the activities of Maharaji. Maharaji is on a big devotional trip these days. This has happened before, twice in the last two decades. Maharaji's devotional bursts don't last for too long before he retreats again and stops playing God. This is the best I can say without knowing more details. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 18:49:24 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Helpless Subject: Re: Help! Message: Dear Helpless, I also think that what Scott said is very true: 'If you love someone let them go, if they are meant to be yours they will come back.' That is not it exactly but that is the sentement. It is a harsh reality but I believe it is true. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 18:52:50 (EST)
Poster: Helpless Email: To: Robyn Subject: Re: Help! Message: I have never considered receiving knowledge in order to save my relationship. That was never in the deal, and I have always been honest in my heart. We cannot make plans together because M keeps his schedule a secret until the last minute. We have to keep changing holiday plans to accomodate his meetings (I do not go). I think that it is part of his manipulation that he cannot let people know when he will be and where - it just seems like an endless big secret. My partner spends almost all vacation time traveling around the world seeing nothing, while I stay at home tending the homefires. Yes, I do need to talk. I am very angry. My partner thinks everything is fine because we are not currently argueing about non-availability, or cancelled plans. Is there aomeone out there who has made this work??? How do you make life-long plans with someone who is willing to cancel at any minute to go to the 'master?' Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 18:55:24 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Helpless Subject: Re: Help! Message: Your partner's fanatical devotion is probably only a passing phase. I don't know his history (I'm assuming it's a him and you're a her) but if you question him about his past you may see either fluctuations in his devotion to Maharaji if he's been a premie (devotee) for a long time. If he has just gotten into the whole trip then his extreme devotion might only last for a short time. In the past, I was persuaded to break off relationships by the Maharaji religion. I later regretted bitterly having done such a thing. Sooner or later your partner will make a 180 degree turn and if you can hang in there for that long, he will be glad you're still around. I think much of how your partner feels is dependent upon the activities of Maharaji. Maharaji is on a big devotional trip these days. This has happened before, twice in the last two decades. Maharaji's devotional bursts don't last for too long before he retreats again and stops playing God. This is the best I can say without knowing more details. ______________________________ Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 18:57:56 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Helpless Subject: Re: Help! Message: Helpless: Regarding: I am afraid of ending up in never-ending therapy. I doubt that. Even those of us who are really nuts have managed to avoid that fate. I think you need to look inside, decide what you want, and then take your turn without trying to second guess anything. It's my opinion that we can't decide together on the ultimate fate of a relationship, or a society. We have to decide for ourselves, and then let others take their turn. Your heart will thank you for it in the long run. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 19:04:39 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Helpless Subject: Re: Help! Message: I am afraid to even write this - especially because it it the internet and I am afraid I will be identified, but here goes....I am in love with a long-time M follower. When we were dating I was told about the meditation, and a couple of trips each year to visit the 'teacher.' It sounded harmless enough. I have been to a few video events - enough to know that the message is simple and true, but does not account for the devotion given to this man! My love recently returned from a small & selective meeting with M and started saying all sorts of nonsence about the shallowness of me and our relationship. Over the past year my love has also started donating enormous financial gifts. I believe that the recent invitation was only to suck up to the really big givers. I am talking about a truely wonderful person, but I feel helpless and don't know where to turn. I have been told that I am not as important as M and 'the work!' Please talk to me. I remain, Helpless Helpless, I only have bad news for you, I'm afraid. If you've read the forum much and looked at the archives you'll see how near impossible it is to get a premie to talk straight, let alone think straight. It's a trap, Helpless, and your boyfriend's stuck in it. Your choices are: 1) learn to accept the fact that your boyfriend's stuck in a cult. 2) leave him. 3) argue with him until he leaves you. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 19:12:23 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Robyn Subject: Re: Help! Message: Dear Helpless, I also think that what Scott said is very true: 'If you love someone let them go, if they are meant to be yours they will come back.' That is not it exactly but that is the sentement. It is a harsh reality but I believe it is true. Robyn I think it's entirely wrong to think anyone's 'meant' to be anyone's. There's no big mind out there making out our dance cards. There certainly are no 'soul mates'. The good news about realizing this is that it strips away some of the fatally gooey heart-glue with which we romanticize our objects of limerince (sp?). Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 19:21:52 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: Helpless Subject: Re: Help! Message: Helpless, I think that it is very inconsiderate of your partner to cancel plans on you and run off at the last minute. CD made a great point when he said that your partner should be considerate of you. (Even if CD is a premie-just joking, CD!) I also think that you need to discuss how you feel with your friend, but CD is right to say that he may not be reasonable and may just defend himself. What if you could agree to a certain number of programs for him, not to interfere with holidays or other events that are important to you? The two of you would have to establish what these would be ahead of time. (For example: if you celebrate Christmas you could both agree to no programs during December- no matter what happens with M's schedule.) I also take issue with your partner calling you shallow or unenlightened. I guess with this one you are going to have to speak to your partner (find out his true feelings for you in light of these derogatory comments) or decide how much namecalling you are willing to accept and live with. My advice to you is live with none! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 19:56:25 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Jim Subject: Re: Help! Message: Jim, I knew when I wrote that the words would get in the way but I couldn't think of another way to word it. Instead of yours maybe in each others hearts not ownership but love and caring for one another. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 21:19:05 (EST)
Poster: Lg Email: To: Helpless Subject: Re: Help! Message: I sympathize with you. However, you know better than any one of us what to do. Follow your own feelings. If your feelings are not clear right this moment, in time they will. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 21:30:08 (EST)
Poster: Steve A Email: steve.allison@lion-nathan.com.au To: Helpless Subject: Re: Help! Message: Dear Helpless Being caught up with M or any cult blinds you to everything, you see life and those who you love only in light of the cult. I remember when I was hooked I thought the whole world was crazy and they all needed saving. From what I knew of my my own feelings at the time, I would think that if he loved you before he probably still loves you now, but the cult has blinded him so much that he only sees you as a non believer. Remain true to your own beliefs, he will try to turn you. One good thing is that he probably won't start a relationship with anyone else, as M discourages his devotees from loving anyone else but him. Chances are he will not be blinded for long when he begins to question and when he suspects he has been betrayed, I think he will turn to those that love him for help. Only you can decide if and how long you are prepared to wait. Be strong and post here as much as you like, you will find many caring people who will do the best they can to help. You have my prayers and best wishes. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 21:59:45 (EST)
Poster: Selena Email: To: Helpless Subject: Re: Help! Message: Helpless, Trust your feelings and, if it feels right, keep reading these forum posts. They have been a life saver for me. Make critical and intelligent conclusions, based on your heart and mind and *no one else's* ! Relationships are hard these days, even without the fanatical obsessive religion of Maharaji. They will try to tell you it's not a religion. Make no mistake. It is absolutely a modern day religion, and don't think for a moment that all those trips around the world are just because your friend loves to travel. He or she may love traveling, but that is not the reason for all these novenas, believe me. Those events are a corner stone of M's cult. They keep people off-guard, focused on his world, involved in the details of getting to the next event. It seems glamorous to do all that traveling. It makes one feel special, etc. There are so many subtleties. Also, believe me, those of us who didn't give large donations were never invited to any special screenings or audiences with the great guru. My first impulse it to tell you to bail. Tell your lover this is too much, and see what develops from there. But, I know this approach may be too simplistic. We are all different, and that may be the wrong choice for you. But, be careful, please, and pay attention to your self. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 22:03:19 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: megumby@hotmail.com To: Helpless Subject: Re: Help! Message: Hi Helpless, I have read every posting under this subject with great interest. Mostly, because something almost identically occurred to me last year. I was seeing a person who turned out to be a long time m follower. At first I kept a totally open heart, went to videos, etc. As I learned more about m, I realized that he was a false teacher, and had an amazing amount of internal struggles, as I cared/loved this person very deeply. Every experience you have mentioned has happened to me. If you would like we could take it off line. I wish you the best. My thoughts and prayers are with you. -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 22:55:38 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Helpless Subject: My Story (Re: Help!) Message: Dear Helpless, I really related to your story, because I have had a similar experience (although quite some time ago).When I was a premie, I was very much in love with another premie. We had a great relationship for a while, because we got together during a time when devotion to Maharaji was not emphasized as much as it was later. When Maharaji began to ask for more of a devotional commitment from the premies, the man I was involved with started saying things like how meaningless and worldly our relationship was compared with his relationship with Maharaji and how our relationship was actually interfering with his devotion to Maharaji. Since we were both premies (followers of M), he also criticized me for not being as committed and devoted to Maharaji as he was. To make a long story short, I ended up leaving Maharaji and this man ended up becoming much more devoted to him. This was very painful for me - it took me a while to get over it. But I did get over it, and I am currently married to someone who really loves me - I'm not second best in anyone's life anymore. Personally, having been through it, I wouldn't stay in a relationship with anyone who said that I was 'shallow', or that his relationship with me was shallow. I also think that some Maharaji followers use their devotion to Maharaji as an excuse to avoid intimacy with another person. It's easy to be in love with Maharaji, or to think you are - it's much harder to live with another person day to day and love them in the same way. I'm sorry that you are in this situation - I know it must be very painful. I know that there are premie & non-premie couples who have worked it out, but I think that's because the premie partner treats the non-premie partner with love and respect. It's impossible to tell your whole story from the few facts that you have given, but it sounds like your partner hasn't been very respectful of you as an individual, and also that he may feel that you are inferior in some way because you don't have knowledge. Take care of yourself, and remember it's really important to be loved and accepted for who YOU are. Regards (and best wishes) from Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 00:15:28 (EST)
Poster: the hidden agenda isthat Email: *.* To: David Subject: prem rawat is god incarnate (Re: Help!) Message: passing phase? look at mili and cd. Or me for that matter. Look at the hopelessly deluded Les. Les thinks that feeling his breath qualifies as mergeing with god and being 'one'. What must god think about les? He must say, 'uh, excuse me but you haven't merged with me and oh by the way, neither has maharaji.' So let's see, how many people do I know now that are god, oh yes, Trent, prem rawat(and his eldest brother), and Les! I guess I am in for it since I don't have proper respect for these Dieties. When you die I suppose you will just say hello to yourself. Well, say hello to yourself for me too! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 00:25:27 (EST)
Poster: don't fall in love with a Zealot Email: To: CD Subject: prem rawat has him programmed. face it. (Re: Help!) Message: The only time you can successfully change a man is when he is an infant. He has to to it himself and he ain't gonna for a long time. You go find someone who believes in god. This guy is lost to you. for CD, If he is god incarnate can't you type out his fucking name? m I guess in your heart he isn't enshrined as high as one of your staunchness might. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 00:55:18 (EST)
Poster: skdjfh Email: To: Mili Subject: oireuqp (Re: Help!) Message: It doesn't sound like me. Or x-man. I don't know if Jimmie does those kind of posts. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 01:32:48 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Katie and Helpless Subject: Re: My Story (Re: Help!) Message: Katie and Helpless: Regarding: Personally, having been through it, I wouldn't stay in a relationship with anyone who said that I was 'shallow', or that his relationship with me was shallow. I simply can't imagine anyone in their right mind having such an opinion of you. And helpless, you should listen. I figured Katie would have something to say to you. All I can come up with is the taking turns thing. Not exactly the voice of experience, but I don't think what Katie has to say contradicts the notion that we don't make decisions about the ultimate fate of a relationship, a society, or the world together. I think you decide, and then he takes a shot. You can do it. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 02:51:15 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: skdjfh Subject: to skdjfh Re: oireuqp (Re: Help!) Message: It doesn't sound like me. Or x-man. I don't know if Jimmie does those kind of posts. Dear skdjfh, It doesn't matter! The dice are rigged - this is an 'X' site, you guys are paying for it and you can say whatever you want here. And you do! It doesn't have to be real at all. Whoever comes here and says anything to the contrary is only asking for trouble. I'd hate to think what an 'XXX' site would look like. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 05:43:18 (EST)
Poster: Anon Email: To: Helpless Subject: Re: Help! Message: I hereby add my voice to those who sympathise with you. Your lover sounds like he's in so deep with someone else that he may not be able to give you the time and attention you need. On the other hand, if you are clear about your misgivings regarding Maharaji you may be able to inspire your partner to review his more fanatical behaviour. I have some experience of this although from the other perspective. Since I left Maharaji's ashram I had a succession of girlfriends who had never heard of Maharaji. They duly all received Knowledge although I believe none still practise today. Indeed one was vociferously against Maharaji when she left me! (I was still giving MJ the benefit of the doubt at that time).She saw many hypocrisies in the machinations of Maharaji's work (having herself become involved in 'service' at a high level) and became quickly and violently disgusted with the whole thing. In retrospect I am sorry that I had so little sympathy for her perceptive judgements about Maharaji. I am now happily married to a wonderful woman who has no interest in Maharaji. (I took her to a MJ program when I first met her and she found the whole thing alien and bizarre) I since have become more and more disenchanted with M. It is largely thanks to integrating with more people of integrity, than just the rarified company of obsessive premies alone, that helped me to see what a closed system I had become trapped in and that there was a wonderful life to live away from its fiercely protected confines. Anyway, Helpless. All is not lost. I think it would do no harm to communicate your misgivings about Maharaji to your lover in no uncertain terms. The sooner you articulate your current position on Maharaji, the sooner that things will come to a head on this block to your relationship. Do yourself a favour though and don't let it ride. Premies, given half a chance, will quite happily take what others have to offer them without the slightest feeling that they owe them anything in return and that includes your love and service. Indeed to a premie the only person who they owe anything to is Maharaji (and to some degree their other 'brothers and sisters') The notion of responsiblity in other areas of humane interaction is conspicuously absent. They suffer from terrible arrested development socially. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 06:20:57 (EST)
Poster: Go Forth And Email: *.* To: Mili Subject: Millitate And Fight! (Re: Help!) Message: Wrong Again! They Come And Enlighten And I Cheer! Dont Change! Keep One With The Viewpoint! Maharaji Is God Incarnate! The Ranks Will Swell With Mili And Les Trumpeting The Reality! The God Incarnate Will Enter The Pantheon Of God's In The Great Blank Blob of Oneness! All is Breath! Breath is All! Why Wait! Go Forth And Propagate To The Masses! Green Light! Live on Salt And Water! Move It Mili! Time and The Great Blob Wait For No Infinite/Finite Man! The Darkness Is Here--Move To The Light And Bright! Don't Feed The Crazies Your Energy! Let Evil Be And Spread The Light! Merge With The Mili Inside! Print Out Maharaji/Students Posts! Show Them To Your Friends! Buy Les'z Book! The Dogs Bark But The Elephant Just Continues On! Continue On! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 11:58:04 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: to skdjfh oireuqp (Re: Help!) Message: Dear Mili - you wrote The dice are rigged - this is an 'X' site, you guys are paying for it and you can say whatever you want here. And you do! It doesn't have to be real at all. I hope you can see that the reverse is true too - I mean, we are paying for it, but we let YOU and whoever else come here and say whatever they want here. Also, and this is not addressed to you personally, if someone says that they have a problem (like 'helpless', or 'Jacques' that wrote in a month ago), I think it's only fair to try and address their problem honestly and not make it into a battleground between premies and ex-premies. And again, it doesn't matter if they are making it up, IMHO (although I don't believe 'helpless' is) - maybe someone is reading the site who has the same problem but is too shy to talk about it. Regards from Katie P.S. My e-mail is broken (in case anyone is trying to send me messages) - haven't been able to get mail since last Wednesday. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 12:04:14 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: (no e-mail right now) To: Helpless Subject: Re: My Story (P.S.) (Re: Help!) Message: Dear H (I wish you wouldn't call yourself 'helpless'!' - After thinking about your post last night, I wanted to add one thing: When I was a premie, I would have never considered having a relationship with someone who didn't have knowledge. I believed that having received knowledge separated me from people who had not - that it made me different in some way. I think I felt slightly superior, but mostly just different - like I had some sort of awareness that they didn't have. I am not sure how the man who you are in the relationship with feels about this point, but it would have definitely caused a problem for me when I was a premie. As I said earlier, there are premies who do have successful relationships with people who aren't premies, so this may not apply to everyone. Take care of yourself. Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 12:10:05 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Katie Subject: Re: to skdjfh oireuqp (Re: Help!) Message: Dear Mili - you wrote The dice are rigged - this is an 'X' site, you guys are paying for it and you can say whatever you want here. And you do! It doesn't have to be real at all. I hope you can see that the reverse is true too - I mean, we are paying for it, but we let YOU and whoever else come here and say whatever they want here. Also, and this is not addressed to you personally, if someone says that they have a problem (like 'helpless', or 'Jacques' that wrote in a month ago), I think it's only fair to try and address their problem honestly and not make it into a battleground between premies and ex-premies. And again, it doesn't matter if they are making it up, IMHO (although I don't believe 'helpless' is) - maybe someone is reading the site who has the same problem but is too shy to talk about it. Regards from Katie P.S. My e-mail is broken (in case anyone is trying to send me messages) - haven't been able to get mail since last Wednesday. Yeah Katie, thanks for reminding me. Boy, this place sure can be full of carnage sometimes. Hey, spring is showing its pretty face in Zagreb, but it's still cold! How're things in Missouri? We have western movies on TV every day and I love the natural beauty and the horses. Otherwise, the good guys and the bad guys are always shooting it out - sorta reminds me of this place, I don't know why. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 12:20:51 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: Helpless Subject: To Helpless P.S. (Re: Help!) Message: Dear Helpless, I,too, was thinking about your story last night. The premie I loved used to say to me, 'We really need to get together. You know, you can make all of the plans in the world and they just don't seem to ever go the way that you want them to. Other things come up. That is just the way life is. We'll get together when it is meant to be.' There is some truth in that statement,(not in the 'meant to be' part, but in the 'other things coming up' part) but looking back on that it was just an excuse for never having to commit to any definite or solid plans with me. (And not just with me but with other family members and with other non-premie friends.) I know that this person loved and valued me, but that love couldn't begin to compete with what this person felt for M! The programs and the premie functions always came first. It hurts, I know. Just wanted to share that with you and to let you know that I am thinking about you. VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 12:21:47 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: Helpless Subject: To Helpless P.S. (Re: Help!) Message: Dear Helpless, I,too, was thinking about your story last night. The premie I loved used to say to me, 'We really need to get together. You know, you can make all of the plans in the world and they just don't seem to ever go the way that you want them to. Other things come up. That is just the way life is. We'll get together when it is meant to be.' There is some truth in that statement,(not in the 'meant to be' part, but in the 'other things coming up' part) but looking back on that it was just an excuse for never having to commit to any definite or solid plans with me. (And not just with me but with other family members and with other non-premie friends.) I know that this person loved and valued me, but that love couldn't begin to compete with what this person felt for M! The programs and the premie functions always came first. It hurts, I know. Just wanted to share that with you and to let you know that I am thinking about you. VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 12:22:44 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: Helpless Subject: To Helpless P.S. (Re: Help!) Message: Dear Helpless, I,too, was thinking about your story last night. The premie I loved used to say to me, 'We really need to get together. You know, you can make all of the plans in the world and they just don't seem to ever go the way that you want them to. Other things come up. That is just the way life is. We'll get together when it is meant to be.' There is some truth in that statement,(not in the 'meant to be' part, but in the 'other things coming up' part) but looking back on that it was just an excuse for never having to commit to any definite or solid plans with me. (And not just with me but with other family members and with other non-premie friends.) I know that this person loved and valued me, but that love couldn't begin to compete with what this person felt for M! The programs and the premie functions always came first. It hurts, I know. Just wanted to share that with you and to let you know that I am thinking about you. VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 12:27:36 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: Brian Subject: Technical difficulties! (Re: Help!) Message: Brian, oops! I'm sorry about triple posting! When I tried to post, I got a message saying I couldn't post because the server was reset. Then I tried again and got the same the message, the third time it went through and then I saw three posts instead of one. I promise this was accidental. I'm not trying to make more work for you, honest! VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 12:33:30 (EST)
Poster: Katie (off topic) Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: to skdjfh oireuqp (Re: Help!) Message: Hi Mili - it is definitely spring here - lots of flowers are blooming although we're still having cold weather. Do you have crocuses and daffodils (narcissus) in Zagreb? We went to Iowa (500 miles north of here) for the weekend and it was still winter there, though. By the way Missouri (unfortunately) is not a western state, although it is west of the Mississippi River, and it's where Mark Twain is from. Missouri certainly don't have the kind of scenery that you see in those western movies. It's more midwestern/southern than anything else. Hard to describe. You've been in northern Illinois (I think) - the northern half of Missouri looks somewhat like that. Regards, Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 13:19:28 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Katie (off topic) Subject: Re: to skdjfh oireuqp (Re: Help!) Message: Hi Mili - it is definitely spring here - lots of flowers are blooming although we're still having cold weather. Do you have crocuses and daffodils (narcissus) in Zagreb? We went to Iowa (500 miles north of here) for the weekend and it was still winter there, though. By the way Missouri (unfortunately) is not a western state, although it is west of the Mississippi River, and it's where Mark Twain is from. Missouri certainly don't have the kind of scenery that you see in those western movies. It's more midwestern/southern than anything else. Hard to describe. You've been in northern Illinois (I think) - the northern half of Missouri looks somewhat like that. Regards, Katie Yeah, we have crocuses and daffodils in Zagreb. (In the flowershops, I mean!) Seriously, the crocuses are the first flowers to bloom in the country, and the last in the autumn. I have a small country house near a green river, and they are blooming like anything on the riverbank and adjoining meadows. Zagreb is an antique, Middle European town with Austrian arhitecture, but I live in a tall apartment building. There is a fabulous mountain on the north side of town - real wild. You can get from downtown to the forest in just half an hour on foot. On the south side, there is a big river called Sava. It has its source in the Alps, to the north. The good thing about the river is that there is always a breeze blowing, so it chases the smog away. However, since the temperatures have gone up (greenhouse effect?) in the summer, there can be pretty humid and hot days, with almost no breeze at all. Well, summer is the time to take off for the Adriatic seacoast (3 hrs drive) anyway. See you there sometime? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 14:39:56 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Mili Subject: Mili, quit whining (Re: Help!) Message: Dear Mili - you wrote The dice are rigged - this is an 'X' site, you guys are paying for it and you can say whatever you want here. And you do! It doesn't have to be real at all. I hope you can see that the reverse is true too - I mean, we are paying for it, but we let YOU and whoever else come here and say whatever they want here. Also, and this is not addressed to you personally, if someone says that they have a problem (like 'helpless', or 'Jacques' that wrote in a month ago), I think it's only fair to try and address their problem honestly and not make it into a battleground between premies and ex-premies. And again, it doesn't matter if they are making it up, IMHO (although I don't believe 'helpless' is) - maybe someone is reading the site who has the same problem but is too shy to talk about it. Regards from Katie P.S. My e-mail is broken (in case anyone is trying to send me messages) - haven't been able to get mail since last Wednesday. Yeah Katie, thanks for reminding me. Boy, this place sure can be full of carnage sometimes. Hey, spring is showing its pretty face in Zagreb, but it's still cold! How're things in Missouri? We have western movies on TV every day and I love the natural beauty and the horses. Otherwise, the good guys and the bad guys are always shooting it out - sorta reminds me of this place, I don't know why. Quit whining, Mili. You claimed Maharaji's not the messiah and, then, confronted with his blatant claim to be just that, you sarcastically 'feigned' concession. Of course, a more honourable person would have wiped their undeserved smirk off their face and simply said it straight. Given the obviousness of the situation, I'm taking the liberty of erasing your sarcasm and treating your admission at face value. You don't believe Maharaji. Nothing could be clearer. Then, what's really funny, is your thoughtless support of Les. See, Les agrees with Maharaji. Unlike you, he thinks Maharaji IS the messiah. Only, like you, Les is too cowardly to talk clearly. Still, he has indeed said as much. So, what possible basis do you have to support him on? None. Maharaji must cringe. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 15:16:11 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Jim Subject: Re: Mili, quit whining (Re: Help!) Message: Jim, You stupid idiot, I was joking. I said 'He can't be a Messiah because he isn't even Jewish (ha, ha)' Get it? No. I thought so. I'll explain - the Jews are very quibbly about their Messiahs. They don't even accept Jesus as the Messiah even to this very day! Why are you so hung up on this concept of Mji being the Messiah? Maybe he is, maybe he is not. It's for everyone to find out for themselves. What he is and what he does certainly doesn't depend on what you or I or anyone else think of him. It's not about words, tags, labels, you idiot. You peg-hole brained lawyer. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 16:02:58 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: Mili, quit whining (Re: Help!) Message: Jim, You stupid idiot, I was joking. I said 'He can't be a Messiah because he isn't even Jewish (ha, ha)' Get it? No. I thought so. I'll explain - the Jews are very quibbly about their Messiahs. They don't even accept Jesus as the Messiah even to this very day! Why are you so hung up on this concept of Mji being the Messiah? Maybe he is, maybe he is not. It's for everyone to find out for themselves. What he is and what he does certainly doesn't depend on what you or I or anyone else think of him. It's not about words, tags, labels, you idiot. You peg-hole brained lawyer. Forget about lawyers. Why did you prevent good, wholesome premies -- possibly unaffected by the darkness of post-secondary education -- from discussing this? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 18:05:47 (EST)
Poster: Katie off topic Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Mili Subject: Springtime in Zagreb (Re: Help!) Message: Yeah, we have crocuses and daffodils in Zagreb. (In the flowershops, I mean!) Seriously, the crocuses are the first flowers to bloom in the country, and the last in the autumn. I have a small country house near a green river, and they are blooming like anything on the riverbank and adjoining meadows. Zagreb is an antique, Middle European town with Austrian arhitecture, but I live in a tall apartment building. There is a fabulous mountain on the north side of town - real wild. You can get from downtown to the forest in just half an hour on foot. On the south side, there is a big river called Sava. It has its source in the Alps, to the north. The good thing about the river is that there is always a breeze blowing, so it chases the smog away. However, since the temperatures have gone up (greenhouse effect?) in the summer, there can be pretty humid and hot days, with almost no breeze at all. Well, summer is the time to take off for the Adriatic seacoast (3 hrs drive) anyway. See you there sometime? Mili - Zagreb sounds wonderful and I would love to go there some time. (If you promise not to leave us on an island in the middle of the Adriatic, that is.) The only time I have been to Europe is to go to Guru Puja 73 in England and you can guess how much of England I got to see (almost nothing except the campground and the inside of the Ally Pally). Is there a university in or near Zagreb, and do they teach agricultural science? Just curious - maybe we can take a sabbatical there. Katie P.S. My species tulips are blooming too (maybe you have those in Croatia - they're from the Caucasus and places like that.) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 18:10:42 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: Helpless Subject: Re: Help! Message: >We cannot make plans together because M keeps his schedule a secret until the last minute. This was pretty much remedied last year. A schedule for this year should be out pretty soon. My girlfriend had the same concern about the schedule. Last year was a big improvement so travel could be planned. Hopefully this will help you out a bit. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 18:13:05 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Katie off topic Subject: Re: Springtime in Zagreb (Re: Help!) Message: Miss Katie, he didn't invite Mr. Katie. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 18:44:58 (EST)
Poster: Katie off topic Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Jim Subject: Re: Springtime in Zagreb (Re: Help!) Message: Miss Katie, he didn't invite Mr. Katie. I just assumed that he did...do you know something I don't? Anyway, he didn't invite YOU! Wonder why? Fondly, Ms. Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 19:38:07 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: CD Subject: Re: Help! Message: Dear CD - I have said a couple of times that I know of premie/non-premie couples who have worked things out. I was mostly thinking of you and Jan, who are in a similar situation (also of Deena and her husband). It does seem, however, that you treat Jan with respect, and honor her feelings about the matter. I'm not sure whether 'Helpless''s boyfriend does or not. At any rate, it's possible that you and/or Jan could be of help to 'Helpless' because you're in a similar situation. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 20:34:23 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Katie (off topic) Subject: MarkTwain (Re: Help!) Message: Katie, He may be from Missouri but he must have lived in Elmira, NY, about 1 hour from me because, I don't know exactly what to say about it but there are things, like parks in his name and maybe around his birthday or something they always do things in rememberance of him. Maybe someone here knows the history. I have a hard enough time dealing with my own. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 21:03:29 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: Katie Subject: Re: Help! Message: Dear CD - I have said a couple of times that I know of premie/non-premie couples who have worked things out. I was mostly thinking of you and Jan, who are in a similar situation (also of Deena and her husband). It does seem, however, that you treat Jan with respect, and honor her feelings about the matter. I'm not sure whether 'Helpless''s boyfriend does or not. At any rate, it's possible that you and/or Jan could be of help to 'Helpless' because you're in a similar situation. I can see how running off unexpectedly to programs can cause tension. The recent long range event schedule was set up to deal with that sort of problem. I have often heard M speak about relationships as an important part of daily life. I do hear some resentment towards M in 'helpless''s tone of writing. Perhaps that has put her buddy on the defensive. Also, her buddy may not have paid attention to how left out she might feel. They need to talk it out and not use M as a battering ram on either side. I thought VPs comments on compromise on travel destinations had merit. I wish 'helpless' and her friend well. I just saw the report on the 12 kids shot in Arkansas as I was writing this. All is not well. But we must remain optimistic and try for the best. CD Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 21:05:43 (EST)
Poster: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Helpless Subject: Re: Help! Message: Hi Helpless (but I hope not helpless for too long). Since I read your post and went away and wrote this reply, there have been many other replies, so sorry if I'm repeating anything anybody else has already suggested. First, don't worry about anonynity and the Internet. Even Brian (our webmaster) knows nothing about the origins of messages posted here, beyond the particular ISP (Internet Service Provider) you are using. So if that happens to be, say, AOL, then that's you and a million other AOL users, etc. So please hang around and discuss this some more if you find it helpful. There are a number of practising premies who post here, whose philosophy of life is closer to your partner's than to your own (CD, Student, Mili etc.) Please don't be put off by these first replies. David made some good points about the cycles that Maharaji's movement seems to go through. I would add that something like 90% of people who have ever received Knowledge leave Maharaji sooner or later. In most cases it is after three or four years, but if, as seems to be the case with your partner, it is longer than that, then it is very difficult to guess how long it might take. There are only three resolutions to situations like your own: (1) The devotee quits Maharaji (2) The devotee's lover signs up (3) Devotee and lover split up I have known many premie/non-premie couples, and have seen all of these outcomes happening. (There is also a fourth possibility I remember where the lover joins up, as in option 2, but both devotee and lover quit the movement soon after - but I wouldn't recommend this as a deliberate strategy to be adopted.) So how do you predict the most likely outcome? If you were somebody I knew, I would want to know the following about your lover: since he is a 'long-term' follower of M, he is obviously no spring-chicken and must have had previous relationships. Were these with premies or non-premies? How did they end? If he has had other non-premie partners who refused to get involved and he opted for M rather than the human being, then I fear that THAT will be the outcome in your own situation. However, if all previous partners have been premies, then you might be uniquely placed to make an important difference in this guy's life. It sounds like knowing your lover's past will be the key here. Best wishes, and do stick around. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 22:21:32 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Robyn Subject: Re: MarkTwain (Re: Help!) Message: Hey Robyn, Maybe he was born there (in Elmira, I mean - do you live in Scranton or Wilkes-Barre?), but he spent a lot of time in Hannibal Missouri because the whole town is a big tourist attraction in the name of Mark Twain (for example: the Tom Sawyer Motor Inn, etc!). Other famous people from Missouri are Harry Truman and Rush Limbaugh (yech!). P.S. Got your e-mail, finally! Thanks. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 10:37:13 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Katie Subject: Re: MarkTwain (Re: Help!) Message: Katie, I was thinking maybe he died up here, I don't pay much attention to TV but I know he is connected in some way. I live about 1 1/2 hours from either Wilkes-Barre or Scranton. I go to both places to train city planners and economic developers this mapping software and I wouldn't want to live in either place. I am much happier here in the woods. The only thing I'm missing is the ocean! Did you get my message once or twice, it doesn't really matter, just curious. See you at sundogs, Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Thurs, Mar 26, 1998 at 18:52:22 (EST)
Poster: Abby Email: To: Rick Subject: Re: Help! Message: No, Student, I think you got it wrong. At least, I wouldn't try to tell Helpless why their partner should leave maharaji. But I can't help but notice your blind insensitivity to someone who is possibly losing someone they love, and taking the opportunity to blather your dogma, as though this person's feelings couldn't possibly size up to the great maharaji, or someone's devotion for him. However, I'm sure you made things a little clearer for this person. If it wasn't for the pain you just caused, I'd say thank you. Rick, you bleeding heart. Let's call a spade a spade, shall we? Hard reality of a relationship: We each have our own path to walk and no one can own another person. If two people can walk in parallel, fine. If not, it would never have worked out anyway without compromise. If compromise can't be made, it's better to part company. The feelings premies have to follow and support M can be very strong... are you saying there's something wrong with that? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 12:18:16 (EST)
Poster: Selena Email: To: Everyone Subject: over it (?) Message: I posted a new thread on Friday night, but with the restart I doubt many saw it, so forgive me for repeating myself, but this is something i am very curious about. What seems to be happening to me is, since the most non blissful Long Beach disaster, I have been finding myself thinking less and less about all those years with M. I have gotten very busy lately, and that's part of it. This forum has helped tremendously also. What is amazing though, is how quickly the whole past premie / M/ WOK experience is becoming insignificant to me. I've read a lot of stories here about how hard it was for many ex-premies to let go of it, and so I am wondering if I am just going through a brief reprieve? I do know I still feel some anger toward certain individuals when they spout out the programmed cliches and stuff, but other than that I feel like I am on my way. Do you think this is possible? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 12:28:31 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: To: Selena Subject: The power of XSong (Re: over it (?)) Message: Serena, clearly you have been saved by the grace of X-song. [dialogue between the ex-premies] Believe in it, it is the real thing! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 21:28:15 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Selena Subject: Re: over it (?) Message: Are you just in a lull? Who knows. But at least you are now having them. I went through some emotional swings myself, but that was me. I figure everyone was affected differently by their involvement. Another factor is the amount of important 'other beliefs' that were interwoven with the MJ myth. Some people have more knots to unravel than others. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 21:41:25 (EST)
Poster: Steve A Email: To: Selena Subject: Re: over it (?) Message: Hey Selena, you can only be angry or melancholy for so long, after that why not feel good about yourself, after all you deserve it. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 21:46:19 (EST)
Poster: Selena Email: To: Brian Subject: Re: over it (?) Message: Good point regarding the inter-woven other beliefs. Sometimes, I think these have been the true addictions. Here's a few right off the top: * This is the only true experience of spirituality and love * Your thoughts are just concepts (to be ignored and discounted) * Everyone else besides devotees of M are not experiencing as much as they could be in 'this' life. I am sure there are others, but that's a heck of a good start, enough to keep someone hooked and feeling different, or 'special', for a long time. Fortunately, I have seen in a rather brutal way how these thought patterns can really mess up a life. Maybe that's why it's easy for me to WANT to turn away from it all. And, that's sort of the first step. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 06:47:05 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: Happy Birthday, Forum! Message: I plum forgot to post it, but the Forum is a year old around now. I don't have an actual starting date, but the earliest White Pages entries are dated March 19, 1997, so I'll call it that day. The Forum and White Pages were both started by Scott Perry and Jim Heller, and hosted on Scott's Miraclevision site. When I first read it last year, it only contained posts between the two of them discussing how the place looked. It looked empty :) Now it's bookmarked by premies all over the world who regularly sneak peeks, and by ex's who fill it (faster than I can keep up with) with their experiences with the Ex-Lord. It amazes me to see what's happened in the last year! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 01:23:02 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: megumby@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: Movie: The Apostle... Message: Hi everyone, Has anybody seen the movie: The Apostle? I am curious what you thought of it. GAGBWY -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 16:09:23 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: gumby Subject: Re: Movie: The Apostle... Message: Hi everyone, Has anybody seen the movie: The Apostle? I am curious what you thought of it. GAGBWY -gumby I prefer 'Brother Sun Sister Moon'. CD Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 20:01:30 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: CD Subject: Re: Movie: The Apostle... Message: Hi everyone, Has anybody seen the movie: The Apostle? I am curious what you thought of it. GAGBWY -gumby I prefer 'Brother Sun Sister Moon'. CD Do you really? Have you seen it lately? I always remembered it as a great movie, but I saw it again for the first time in ages when my neighbor, whose was finishing his thesis on images of St. Francis in film, screened it for me. I was very much un-impressed! The music was inane and it was historically inaccurate. It was beautifully filmed, though, and as always, the actors were all beautiful. But it was very disappointing; I remembered it to be much better than it was. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 21:31:22 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Gumby Subject: Jesus of Nazareth (Re: Movie: The Apostle...) Message: Back in the seventies I saw the long epic, 'Jesus of Nazareth' starring Robert Powell. It was screened on British TV every Sunday up until Easter Sunday. I found it very moving at the time. Did you know, Gumby, that Jesus almost certainly wasn't born in the Bethlehem we now call the birth place of Christ. Back in those days when the Romans were doing their census of the population there used to be a much smaller town of Bethlehem much nearer to where Joseph and Mary lived. It would have been THAT Bethlehem where they would have reported for the census. Also Jesus wasn't born at Christmas. More like in September. I have an interest in the true historical record of a man named Jesus (in modern language). The name was common in those days. Do you suppose there could have been more than one Jesus who was crucified by the Romans? Also the Christians' account of crucifiction is historically inaccurate. The Romans did not pierce the hands with nails because that would never support the wieght of a man on the cross or scaffold (the nails would tear through the hands). History teaches us that the nails were driven through the wrists between the bones, ensuring the lower hand bone secured a tight lock so that the wrists wouldn't become detatched from the cross. The nails would be driven through the main nerve to the hands producing terrible agony from that pierced nerve. The feet were pulled up behind the knees and nailed through the bone with a long nail. The person being crucified would be hanging by their pieced wrists with their legs bent double underneath. Death would come from suffocation because after enduring that position for some time, it becomes impossible to breathe out or exhale. One could extend one's life by pushing up with the feet and supporting some weight on them. Some people did this even though pushing up one's weight with nail severed feet as the support would be terrible pain, particularly since you'd be pushing up with the bone standing upon the edge of the nail. The Romans would eventually break the legs of people who were extending their life by pushing themselves up from their feet. Once the legs were broken, all the weight would be hanging from the nailed wrists and the exhausted person would suffocate fairly quickly. A most barbaric and agonizing way for anyone to die. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 22:26:23 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: David Subject: Re: Jesus of Nazareth (Re: Movie: The Apostle...) Message: Hey David, Have you read all those 'Historical Jesus' books by Borg and Crossan, et al? It seems that every fifty years or so there is another search for the historical Jesus, and those on the search discover that Jesus was a lot like them! I find this stuff interesting, but the historical Jesus seems to have little to do with the Christ which has been such an important part of Western history. I agree, there were probably lots of guys named Jesus executed by the Romans in Judea. Jesus may have been buried in an un-marked grave with many others rather than a tomb, but the Evangelists weren't really interested in historical accuracy; our concept of history was not even understood in those days. The Evangelists were telling the story which was important to their community; the story on which their faith was based. Regards, Michael Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 23:08:57 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: megumby@hotmail.com To: David Subject: Re: Jesus of Nazareth (Re: Movie: The Apostle...) Message: Hi David, Thanks for your words. I would love to see the movie. I don't own a TV, but maybe I could rent a video and visit a friend. :) I don't know all the historical details. As to whether there were other people named Jesus who were crucified, I also don't know. I believe there was just one man named Jesus who did the things he claimed to have done. Looking in the Word, I just reread the passages concerning Jesus' crucifixion. There is no mention about how and where the nails were placed. In fact I don't see any mention of any nails at all. What part of scripture are you referring to? In John, it does mention that Jesus' legs were *not* broken. It also mentions that one soldier pierced his side and that blood and water came out. I wonder what the significance of the water is? Thanks for your reply. GAGBWY -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 02:45:07 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: gumby & Micky Subject: Re: Jesus of Nazareth (Re: Movie: The Apostle...) Message: I haven't read those books in their totality but have read extracts. I gues the knowledge I have has been gleaned from many sources. There was much written about how cruscifiction was carried out when that film starring Robert Powell was released and also during the research into the Turun Shroud. I have also read several conflicting explainations about Jesus's life and I guess one has to accept the most probable. One mistake that has been made is regarding Mary's virginal conception. The ancient Hebrew word for 'betrothed' was also used loosely to mean vigin. Same word but with two different meanings. Far more likely that Mary was 'betrothed' and not a virgin. Surely Gumby, doubting Thomas is claimed to have said that he wanted to put his fingers through the holes in Jesus's hands after the resurrection. I can't think of any other reference to nails going through hands but then I don't have a Bible handy. I mean, look at all the pictures and statues of the cruscifiction and you'll see him with pierced hands. Since most pictures of Jesus date from medieval times after the Roman empire had collapsed, it is easy to see that they could have got this basic detail wrong. A few things have, I think, clearly been misinterpreted over the centuries. Regarding the supposed water and blood coming from Christ's side after the Roman soldier stabbed him, well let's face it, if you stab someone and water and blood comes out, they are going to mix together and be indistinct. Or perhaps Jesus's bladder was perced, who knows. One huge misinterpretation is, I think, the meaning of the sign the Roman soldiers erected above Jesus's head on the cross. The sign said 'King of the Jews' in Roman, didn't it? Well this was clearly a final mocking of Jesus by the thuggish Roman soldiers. The sign was meant to mock and deride Jesus, especially as the 'King' had come to such an ignominious end. It would be an obvious mockery of Jesus considering the circumstances. In conclusion, I believe from the accounts I've read, that there was a Jesus of Nazareth who was held up as an icon by some Jewish people as their deliverer from the Romans. This was a mistake since Jesus was not a revolutionary but a religious leader. The Romans were possibly persuaded to bring him to trial by the Jewish church, since Jesus flouted the Jewish religious constructs and heirarchy. After his death his desolate followers would invented the idea that he died for some good reason, to save their souls and so Christianity was born. One of the most profound things that Jesus was to purported to have said was quite remarkable, 'Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.' Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 10:54:50 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: To: David Subject: Re: Jesus of Nazareth (Re: Movie: The Apostle...) Message: Hi David, Thanks for your response. I would hope that one would use the Word as the first source when gleaning knowledge about God. Sort of like, wanting to read Shakespeare's actual play, versus using Cliff notes. :) I find it amazing that the first four books of the Bible are so amazingly consistent with each other, considering that they were written by four different people during different times. I know from experience how difficult it is to recount everyday details when told through multiple people. You remember the game we played when we were young, about passing on a message from one youngster to the next. You start with: Sara is a cute little girl, and end up with: Billy's frog jumped over the dead log. Last night I did talk to a friend who knows a fair bit about medical issues, and he stated that when a person suffocates, there is often clear liquid that builds up around the chest cavity, which would be consistent with scripture. Moreover, if the viscosity of this liquid were different than that of blood, then they would not necessarily mix. (ie Oil and vinegar). David, to say that Jesus was not a revolutionary, but merely a religious leader is just not true. If one looks in the Word, it clearly states something very different. In fact, if you read the Word I believe you can only come up with one of the following conclusions: (I believe, this was first written by CS Lewis) 1) Jesus was a liar. 2) Jesus was a maniac. 3) Jesus was who he said He was, God. No where is it possible, to read the Word with an open mind, and come to a conclusion that Jesus was just another great teacher, of course He was, but He was a lot more. Jesus would have never been crucified, had he been just another great teacher. He was crucified because he said he was God, and that was blasphemy to the church leaders. He told the leaders, 'before Abraham was born, I am'.(John 8:58) All throughout the Bible he is making pretty outrageous claims. 'I am the alpha and the omega', 'I am the way and the truth and the life', etc. etc. Hope this helps. I appreciate your comments. Off to work I go. GAGBWY -gumby Jesus said many, many profound things. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 13:51:49 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: gumby Subject: Re: Jesus of Nazareth (Re: Movie: The Apostle...) Message: gumby, Just being nosy here: did you used to be a premie? VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 21:59:12 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: To: VP Subject: Re: Jesus of Nazareth (Re: Movie: The Apostle...) Message: Hi VP, No, I never received k from m. I went to videos for about 6 months, but never hopped on the plane to go ask for k. I was with a person who has been following m for 25 years, that is how I found out about m. GAGBWY -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Wed, Mar 25, 1998 at 09:39:57 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: gumby Subject: Never got K (Re: Movie: The Apostle...) Message: Hi VP, No, I never received k from m. I went to videos for about 6 months, but never hopped on the plane to go ask for k. I was with a person who has been following m for 25 years, that is how I found out about m. GAGBWY -gumby gumpy, Thanks. I kind of got that impression, but wasn't sure. (I was off of the forum for a couple of weeks and thought I may have missed that) I never received K either. VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 23:18:47 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: megumby@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: Question: Who, In your opinion... Message: Greetings Brothers and Sisters, I would like to ask everyone a question: Who is the most outstanding personality of all time? I want to take an informal poll. Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God. -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 01:33:29 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: gumby Subject: Re: Question: Who, In your opinion... Message: Now I know why I woke up early today. The most outstanding personality of all time eh? Mmm, don't tell me, it was Hitler, King Henry VIII, or perhaps Joan of Arc? You mean I'm wrong? Keep trying Gumby, although I wouldn't anticipate you having much success on the Jesus front here. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 02:19:57 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: gumby Subject: Re: Question: Who, In your opinion... Message: Greetings Brothers and Sisters, I would like to ask everyone a question: Who is the most outstanding personality of all time? I want to take an informal poll. Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God. -gumby Which 'history' do you mean, Gumby? History is just petrified concensus opinion. Whoever is in political power rewrites history (Scott could probably tell us more about that.) BUT, do you realize that other cultures from your own not only have different histories, but also different calendars? To the Chinese it's now year 5463, or something like that. The Jews count the years from Genesis which began some 6000 years ago. Most Jews do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, anyway (that's why Luther called them despicable and prepared the ground for the holocaust implemented by the Nazis). For a lot of people, like the Incas and the Maya, history suddenly stopped when supposedly-Christian conquistadores made them extinct. The Western worldview is based on the Judaeo-Christian tradition which measures the beginning of time from Genesis and the end of history with the Apocalypse. So, its a linear concept of time, because a line is the thing you draw between these two points. The Greeks and the East Indians thought of time as a circular process. And anyone looking at his watch will obviously see that time goes around. But the Hebrews and the Christians think of time as something that goes in a straight line. And that is a very powerful idea which influences everybody living in the West today. We all have our various mythologies. And I don't mean when I say the word mythology, or myth, something that is false in the popular sense. By myth I mean an idea or an image in terms of which people make sense of the world. And the Western myth under which our common sense has been nurtured over many centuries, is that the world began, if you look at the marginal notes in your copy of the King James Bible, which of course descended from heaven with an angel in the year 1611, you will see that the world was created in the year 4000 B.C., before which, and naturally the Lord God existed forever and ever and ever through endless time backwards. And then the world was created and of course the world fell apart, and so in the middle of time, the second person of the Trinity incarnated himself in Jesus Christ to save mankind, and established the Church. And when this institution has not altogether successfully done its work, there is expected the end of time. There will be a day which is called The Last Day in which God, the Son, will again appear in glory with his legions of angels. And the Last Judgment will be held. And those who are saved will live forever and ever contemplating the vision of the Blessed Trinity and those who did not behave themselves will squirm forever and ever, that is to say, through everlasting time in hell. And this, you see, is a one directional process. So, to answer your question - when you have all these different cultures which even have different perceptions of time, and their different histories of which you know next to nothing about, isn't it presumptuous to say that you-know-who is the greatest personality in history? By you-know-who I mean Bill Gates, of course. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 11:07:46 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: Question: Who, In your opinion... Message: Mili, I'm sure you think quite the opposite but really, your answer here was stupid. It really shows you don't communicate clearly and, to your great misfortune, find some sort of paltry pride in banal word games. 'History', in this question, obviously means 'all time.' Didn't you understand that? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 11:15:36 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: To: gumby Subject: Yours Truly (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: The greatest personality of all time? Why that's simple: me. [IMHO, of course.] If you want to know why, it's because from my own viewpoint, none of this would exist without me. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 12:12:03 (EST)
Poster: Joy Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: Question: Who, In your opinion... Message: Nice one, Mili! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 13:43:01 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Joy Subject: to Joy (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: Nice one, Mili! Thanks Joy! I had fun writing it - it's not like it's a serious dissertation, or anything.... I think Jim was a little disappointed that I didn't mention Maharaji as the Messiah, the most important person in history, and all that. Frankly, I don't think he is the Messiah - not because of this, or that - but how could he be a Messiah, when he's not even Jewish! (ha, ha). Seriously, Maharaji might be the most important person in history for me, but I won't venture to generalize that he is that for everyone. Actually, there are several most important persons in history for me - like my mother, father, girlfriends, etc. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 13:54:07 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Mili Subject: Mili calls Maharaji a liar (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: Mili has finally called Maharaji a liar. Not explicitly, of course. Still, the implication is absolutely unmistakable. Mili knows that Maharaji said: I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. Yet, Mili says: Frankly, I don't think he is the Messiah... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 14:11:51 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: gumby Subject: Re: Question: Who, In your opinion... Message: This is actually a tough question for me, as I can't think of one outstanding personality. Some would say Jesus, but I think that St. Paul and many others had more to do with the influence of the teachings of Jesus than did Jesus himself. I am presently a big fan of both Origen and Augustine, but they are not THE outstanding personalities of all time. The Buddha had a rather big impact, but, IMHO, so did Darwin. Since, like most people, I am somewhat egocentric, it's probably me, deep down inside. Or Katie or Jim or JW or Sir David or ...... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 14:35:30 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Jim Subject: Re: Mili calls Maharaji a liar (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: Mili has finally called Maharaji a liar. Not explicitly, of course. Still, the implication is absolutely unmistakable. Mili knows that Maharaji said: I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. Yet, Mili says: Frankly, I don't think he is the Messiah... Just Jim's usual wishful interpretation, folks! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 14:39:09 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Jim Subject: David calls Maharaji a liar (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: In the early seventies Maharaji said he was God. Then around '76 he became ungodded and was a humanitarian leader. By the late seventies he was God again. Then in 1986 I distinctly heard him say that he was not God. These days it seems he's God again. ______________________ Silly me, there's me thinking that God was this constant thing you can always rely on. All praise to Hari. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 14:44:27 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Mili Subject: You're cornered, Mili - admit it (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: Mili has finally called Maharaji a liar. Not explicitly, of course. Still, the implication is absolutely unmistakable. Mili knows that Maharaji said: I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. Yet, Mili says: Frankly, I don't think he is the Messiah... Just Jim's usual wishful interpretation, folks! If you've got any possible way of reconciling your statement with his, I'd love to hear it. Until then, Mili, it's not just me. Anyone dropping in here, including Maharaji himself, will agree with me that you're blatantly saying he is not what he claims to be. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 14:53:04 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Jim Subject: Re: You're cornered, Mili - admit it (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: Mili has finally called Maharaji a liar. Not explicitly, of course. Still, the implication is absolutely unmistakable. Mili knows that Maharaji said: I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. Yet, Mili says: Frankly, I don't think he is the Messiah... Just Jim's usual wishful interpretation, folks! If you've got any possible way of reconciling your statement with his, I'd love to hear it. Until then, Mili, it's not just me. Anyone dropping in here, including Maharaji himself, will agree with me that you're blatantly saying he is not what he claims to be. Jim, He said what he said, and I said what I said (you conveniently quoted me with just the part that suited you). You seem to have a problem with what Maharaji said and with what I said. I don't. Anyone dropping in can immediately see that you are clutching at straws here, trying to maintain your 'case'. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 15:08:46 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: David Subject: Re: David calls Maharaji a liar (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: In the early seventies Maharaji said he was God. Then around '76 he became ungodded and was a humanitarian leader. By the late seventies he was God again. Then in 1986 I distinctly heard him say that he was not God. These days it seems he's God again. ______________________ Silly me, there's me thinking that God was this constant thing you can always rely on. All praise to Hari. God is within you. You can always experience it through the Knowledge. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 15:21:13 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: David calls Maharaji a liar (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: In the early seventies Maharaji said he was God. Then around '76 he became ungodded and was a humanitarian leader. By the late seventies he was God again. Then in 1986 I distinctly heard him say that he was not God. These days it seems he's God again. ______________________ Silly me, there's me thinking that God was this constant thing you can always rely on. All praise to Hari. God is within you. You can always experience it through the Knowledge. I'm sorry Mili, I just can't take it anymore. I don't think it's a language barrier anymore. No matter how hard you try, you're just plain dumb. It isn't because you're a premie or practice knowledge, because I've met intelligent premies. It's because you're mentally challenged. They used to call it stupid, but that's politically incorrect. It isn't your fault, and you probably excell in some areas that require your brain. But you can't discuss worth a shit. Not a single penny. You're an embarrassment. If I were maharaji, I'd want you to just be quiet and let someone else talk. Maybe that was behind the 'no satsang' rule. Anyway I'm sorry. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 15:23:48 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Mili Subject: Is it fear, Mili? Is that it? (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: Mili has finally called Maharaji a liar. Not explicitly, of course. Still, the implication is absolutely unmistakable. Mili knows that Maharaji said: I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. Yet, Mili says: Frankly, I don't think he is the Messiah... Just Jim's usual wishful interpretation, folks! If you've got any possible way of reconciling your statement with his, I'd love to hear it. Until then, Mili, it's not just me. Anyone dropping in here, including Maharaji himself, will agree with me that you're blatantly saying he is not what he claims to be. Jim, He said what he said, and I said what I said (you conveniently quoted me with just the part that suited you). You seem to have a problem with what Maharaji said and with what I said. I don't. Anyone dropping in can immediately see that you are clutching at straws here, trying to maintain your 'case'. Mili, I don't 'have a problem' with anything either you or Maharaji say. What gives you that idea? I LOVE the fact that you can't agree with him on the most basic level. It's hilarious. It's like 'Life of Brian' only funnier. In the movie, Brian at least consistently denied he was the messiah. Here, Maharaji has both claimed it and denied it AND his suckers also both claim and deny it. On the most fundamental level, you guys are CONFUSED! But you already know that. That's why you squelched any discussion (i.e. disagreement) about Maharaji on your stupid premie page. Remember? As for me trying to 'maintain [my] case', yes, fo course I am. What's wrong with that? That's what happens in discussions, Bozo. People argue their differences with the hopes of understanding the truth. That enterprise takes some basic integrity you lack, I'm afraid. See, a good solid discussion, argument, debate, inquiry -- whatever you wnat to call it -- depends on fairness. That means people have to admit the inescapable inferences of their words. You have never demonstrated the slightest understanding of that. Frankly, you come off as a real jerk, I'm afraid. By the way, you also suggest that by only quoting part of your words I'm somehow taking them out of context. Again, pathetic Mili, really pathetic. You said he wasn't the messiah. Nothing you said before or after that affects your position there one iota. Mili, I swear you really have done more to alienate people from Maharaji than anyone I know, save perhaps his mother. But, I don't tihnk that really bugs you that much. I honestly don't think you give a damn about Maharaji. This just happens to be the spot of cyberspace you've chosen to hang out in. It's a little coincidence that you're a premie. If you could get enough people talking about any of your other interests, you'd be there. Here, at least, you can be 'Mili the idiot' and find some perverse pleasure in the role. Never, Mili, have you impressed me with your sincerity. That's not the same for some of the other fools who try to defend Maharaji here. A lot of them, for all their faults, do seem to really care. You just seem like a shit-disturber. I mean, just think of 'Life of Brian.'am indeed 'trying to maintain [my] case.' Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 15:31:44 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Jim Subject: Re: Is it fear, Mili? Is that it? (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: Mili has finally called Maharaji a liar. Not explicitly, of course. Still, the implication is absolutely unmistakable. Mili knows that Maharaji said: I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. Yet, Mili says: Frankly, I don't think he is the Messiah... Just Jim's usual wishful interpretation, folks! If you've got any possible way of reconciling your statement with his, I'd love to hear it. Until then, Mili, it's not just me. Anyone dropping in here, including Maharaji himself, will agree with me that you're blatantly saying he is not what he claims to be. Jim, He said what he said, and I said what I said (you conveniently quoted me with just the part that suited you). You seem to have a problem with what Maharaji said and with what I said. I don't. Anyone dropping in can immediately see that you are clutching at straws here, trying to maintain your 'case'. Mili, I don't 'have a problem' with anything either you or Maharaji say. What gives you that idea? I LOVE the fact that you can't agree with him on the most basic level. It's hilarious. It's like 'Life of Brian' only funnier. In the movie, Brian at least consistently denied he was the messiah. Here, Maharaji has both claimed it and denied it AND his suckers also both claim and deny it. On the most fundamental level, you guys are CONFUSED! But you already know that. That's why you squelched any discussion (i.e. disagreement) about Maharaji on your stupid premie page. Remember? As for me trying to 'maintain [my] case', yes, fo course I am. What's wrong with that? That's what happens in discussions, Bozo. People argue their differences with the hopes of understanding the truth. That enterprise takes some basic integrity you lack, I'm afraid. See, a good solid discussion, argument, debate, inquiry -- whatever you wnat to call it -- depends on fairness. That means people have to admit the inescapable inferences of their words. You have never demonstrated the slightest understanding of that. Frankly, you come off as a real jerk, I'm afraid. By the way, you also suggest that by only quoting part of your words I'm somehow taking them out of context. Again, pathetic Mili, really pathetic. You said he wasn't the messiah. Nothing you said before or after that affects your position there one iota. Mili, I swear you really have done more to alienate people from Maharaji than anyone I know, save perhaps his mother. But, I don't tihnk that really bugs you that much. I honestly don't think you give a damn about Maharaji. This just happens to be the spot of cyberspace you've chosen to hang out in. It's a little coincidence that you're a premie. If you could get enough people talking about any of your other interests, you'd be there. Here, at least, you can be 'Mili the idiot' and find some perverse pleasure in the role. Never, Mili, have you impressed me with your sincerity. That's not the same for some of the other fools who try to defend Maharaji here. A lot of them, for all their faults, do seem to really care. You just seem like a shit-disturber. I mean, just think of 'Life of Brian.'am indeed 'trying to maintain [my] case.' Yeah, maybe I am a shit-disturber. The more I disturb it, the more it stinks. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 16:07:59 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Question: Who, In your opinion... Message: Mili, I'm sure you think quite the opposite but really, your answer here was stupid. It really shows you don't communicate clearly and, to your great misfortune, find some sort of paltry pride in banal word games. 'History', in this question, obviously means 'all time.' Didn't you understand that? Ah, Heller the master of banal word games, renders judgement. Obviously in 'all time' we have no idea who the most outstanding personality is because we have no understanding of 'all time'. But for a dartboard selection: Jim for Jim and Chris for Chris CD Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 16:57:13 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Man of the Millennium (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: Et al: I think the Washington Post chose Genghis Kahn as the 'Man of the Millennium.' Al Einstein was a close second, who of course is related to Genghis through their cousin Madeline. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 17:41:15 (EST)
Poster: Student Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: Is it fear, Mili? Is that it? (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: Mili, Sometimes the stench gets to me. I keep coming back and sifting through the feces for the occasional pearl of truth. I wish I had Participant's video library. Local videos aren't local enough. Student Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 18:03:09 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: gumby Subject: Re: Question: Who, In your opinion... Message: Gumby, Check out a post on good charisma in the archives (Feb.?)I never really thought about having to name one person for all time. I would probably have to answer for this time since I have not been alive during any other. So many people are outstanding in my mind. At present, I think that my children would qualify for having outstanding personalities (in my mind). I am learning from them all of the time. VP P.S. Then again, today it could be my doctor...groan! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 19:28:46 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Student Subject: Re: Is it fear, Mili? Is that it? (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: Mili, Sometimes the stench gets to me. I keep coming back and sifting through the feces for the occasional pearl of truth. I wish I had Participant's video library. Local videos aren't local enough. Student Student, Why not start your own page then? A nice pro-Maharaji page? I'll tell you one reason -- Maharaji has 'asked' his suckers to not discuss him on the net. Your continual presence here is, apparently, contrary to his express wishes. If you don't believe me why not give Linda Gross (President of Elan Vital) a call? Need her number? Just let me know. Then, when your cowardly leader decides it's safe to come out of hiding a bit, you'll be able to discuss him with a clean and -- how shall we say? -- guileless heart. Until then, bunker down, little buddy, bunker down. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 19:37:28 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Mili Subject: Not so fast, Mili. Not so fast (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: Yeah, maybe I am a shit-disturber. The more I disturb it, the more it stinks. That's a noble sentiment, Mili. But it doesn't even slightly address the issue. The more interesting question which you are apparently trying to avoid is not the one about your character. Nor the one about mine. It's the question of how you can explain the fact that you're calling Maharaji a liar. Oh, want the FULL quote, just to give it a little more CONTEXT? Sure: I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? Face it -- you're stuck. Don't face it -- let everyone else see that you're not only stuck, you're also afraid to admit it. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 19:45:50 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: Scott T. Subject: Re: Man of the Millennium (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: Et al: I think the Washington Post chose Genghis Kahn as the 'Man of the Millennium.' Al Einstein was a close second, who of course is related to Genghis through their cousin Madeline. -Scott Their cousin Madeline, that's rich!!! How about Bucky Fuller? He was a pretty dynamic personality! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 19:46:52 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Jim Subject: Re: Not so fast, Mili. Not so fast (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: Yeah, maybe I am a shit-disturber. The more I disturb it, the more it stinks. That's a noble sentiment, Mili. But it doesn't even slightly address the issue. The more interesting question which you are apparently trying to avoid is not the one about your character. Nor the one about mine. It's the question of how you can explain the fact that you're calling Maharaji a liar. Oh, want the FULL quote, just to give it a little more CONTEXT? Sure: I have come so powerful. I have come for the world. Whenever the great come,the worldly oppose them. Again I have come and you are not listening. Every ear should hear that the saviour of humanity has come. There should be no chance for anyone to say that they haven't heard of Guru Maharaj Ji. Those who have come to me are already saved. Now its your duty to save others. Shout it on the streets. Why be shy? Face it -- you're stuck. Don't face it -- let everyone else see that you're not only stuck, you're also afraid to admit it. Gosh, Jim - you, you..., GOT me there. I have to admit it now. I am just not devoted enough. Gasp! I wasn't even in the ASHRAM, for godssakes! Jeez. What can I do now. Can I be an Ex-premie, Jim? Please? Will you let me into the circle of the select few? Pretty please? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 19:56:55 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: everyone Subject: Re: Question: Who, In your opinion... Message: I finally figured it out! The most outstanding personality of all time was the first mother!! Whether it was Eve or whoever, the first human mother was the most outstanding personaility of all time, because you know that her personality influenced her children, who influenced their children, etc! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 20:25:48 (EST)
Poster: Joy Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com To: Mili Subject: To Mili (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: Nice one, Mili! Thanks Joy! I had fun writing it - it's not like it's a serious dissertation, or anything.... I think Jim was a little disappointed that I didn't mention Maharaji as the Messiah, the most important person in history, and all that. Frankly, I don't think he is the Messiah - not because of this, or that - but how could he be a Messiah, when he's not even Jewish! (ha, ha). Seriously, Maharaji might be the most important person in history for me, but I won't venture to generalize that he is that for everyone. Actually, there are several most important persons in history for me - like my mother, father, girlfriends, etc. Yes, I think the question is a very subjective one. For some people their children would be the most important people of all time, etc. Different for everyone. But I quite liked your arguments, they were non-judgmental and quite well-written. I don't feel that just because someone's a premie who posts here regularly in favor of Maharaji, everything they say must be off-the-wall. So, I repeat, very nicely done, Mili. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 20:47:22 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: Re: Question: Who, In your opinion... Message: I finally figured it out! The most outstanding personality of all time was the first mother!! Whether it was Eve or whoever, the first human mother was the most outstanding personaility of all time, because you know that her personality influenced her children, who influenced their children, etc! Michael: Are you saying Adam wasn't a sensitive guy? -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 22:18:01 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: Scott T. Subject: Re: Question: Who, In your opinion... Message: I finally figured it out! The most outstanding personality of all time was the first mother!! Whether it was Eve or whoever, the first human mother was the most outstanding personaility of all time, because you know that her personality influenced her children, who influenced their children, etc! Michael: Are you saying Adam wasn't a sensitive guy? -Scott Well, he was a kind of dumb guy. I read a psuedepigraphic (sp?) Acts of Adam or some damn thing which was supposed to tell the story of Adam and Eve after they were tossed out of Eden, and in this story Adam would go to the gates of Eden every day and sit outside and cry. Finally, God got tired of it and told him how to farm, which is kind of odd, since according to Gen. 2:15, Adam's job in Eden was to till the garden. I've always thought of Adam as a big, simple, dumb guy, while Eve was intelligent and able to reason. I just don't understand why the Creator in this story puts a tree in the garden and then tells humans not to eat from it; if your omniscient and omnipresent, why would you do such a studpid thing? It was a set up, I tell ya! Of course, the Creator in this story isn't terribly clever, either. The omniscient one doesn't know that Adam and Eve are hiding, and then asks, 'Who told you you were naked?' Not to swift, eh? Here Ends the Lesson, Thanks be to God. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 23:09:12 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Mili Subject: Re: to Mili (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: Seriously, Maharaji might be the most important person in history for me, but I won't venture to generalize that he is that for everyone. Actually, there are several most important persons in history for me - like my mother, father, girlfriends, etc. Dear Mili I liked this answer very much. I'm not sure if you believe that 'Helpless' is a real person (I think she is, because I've been in her situation), but sounds like she needs a guy who thinks like you do - that the other human beings in our lives are 'most' important. Regards from Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 23:27:37 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: To: Scott T. Subject: Re: Man of the Millennium (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: Hi Scott, I thought the big 'GK' was crushed by Attila the Hun. Is my history off. p.s. I have not forgotten our conversation, just haven't given it enough time. Thanks. GAGBWY -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 01:27:36 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: To: VP Subject: Re: Question: Who, In your opinion... Message: Hi VP, Hope you feel better. GAGBWY -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 01:36:50 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Joy Subject: Re: To Mili (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: Nice one, Mili! Thanks Joy! I had fun writing it - it's not like it's a serious dissertation, or anything.... I think Jim was a little disappointed that I didn't mention Maharaji as the Messiah, the most important person in history, and all that. Frankly, I don't think he is the Messiah - not because of this, or that - but how could he be a Messiah, when he's not even Jewish! (ha, ha). Seriously, Maharaji might be the most important person in history for me, but I won't venture to generalize that he is that for everyone. Actually, there are several most important persons in history for me - like my mother, father, girlfriends, etc. Yes, I think the question is a very subjective one. For some people their children would be the most important people of all time, etc. Different for everyone. But I quite liked your arguments, they were non-judgmental and quite well-written. I don't feel that just because someone's a premie who posts here regularly in favor of Maharaji, everything they say must be off-the-wall. So, I repeat, very nicely done, Mili. Ahh, so this is why I come here - to get insulted, misquoted, humiliated and intimidated, only to be able to breathe the sweet perfume of tender, compassionate hearts and minds of the likes of Katie and Joy. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 08:53:09 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: gumby Subject: Re: gumby (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: Hi,gumby, Thank you very much. I do feel better today, just weak. VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 17:59:46 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Mili Subject: Re: To Mili (Re: Question: Who, In your opinion...) Message: Ahh, so this is why I come here - to get insulted, misquoted, humiliated and intimidated, only to be able to breathe the sweet perfume of tender, compassionate hearts and minds of the likes of Katie and Joy. Mili, you ol' cyber-hunk, YOU are a FLIRT! I don't know what Joy thinks, but that's what I think. You must have half the women in Zagreb falling at your feet - or do you only flirt with women who live halfway around the world? Take care and watch out for those falling women! Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 20:58:22 (EST)
Poster: Steve A Email: steve.allison@lion-nathan.com.au To: Everyone Subject: Thankyou Message: Thank you to all those who responded to my previous post and told me and others on this site a little of your lives after DLM/EV. I have read all of them and am greatful for your candid open responses. It is clear to me that despite many of us being hurt by our experiences we have gained courage from them. Perhaps the one thing we should be greatful to M for is that our experience of him and his organization has given us the resolve to fix in our lives all the things he screwed up. Kind regards and best wishes, Steve A Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Sun, Mar 22, 1998 at 22:25:04 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Steve A Subject: Huh?? (Re: Thankyou) Message: Perhaps the one thing we should be greatful to M for is that our experience of him and his organization has given us the resolve to fix in our lives all the things he screwed up. I get woozy trying to unravel that statement. Hard to be grateful to a quack doctor because you decide to overcome his incompetent treatment. Or to a bad mechanic because you've resolved to get what's left of your car running again. Or to a conman like MJ because you decide to overcome what poverty, chastity, and obedience to an idiot brought. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 01:23:34 (EST)
Poster: Steve A Email: To: Brian Subject: Re: Huh?? (Re: Thankyou) Message: Dear Brian If not for the bad would we ever truly appreciate the good?. M may have been responsible for the problem, but you and what you have done with this site has helped so many people. Do you not realize what a difference you have made to the many people who visit this site?. If not for M, I wouldn't have known you or the many other warm hearted people who post on this site. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 09:33:57 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com To: Steve A Subject: Re: Huh?? (Re: Thankyou) Message: Dear Brian If not for the bad would we ever truly appreciate the good?. M may have been responsible for the problem, but you and what you have done with this site has helped so many people. Do you not realize what a difference you have made to the many people who visit this site?. If not for M, I wouldn't have known you or the many other warm hearted people who post on this site. Steve, I believe if you give credit to someone who brought you abuse, which later appeared to be a good thing in the overall scheme of things, then you are undermining yourself. Don't you feel any funny twinge when you credit someone this way? When I do, it's the sound of guilt squashing my soul. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 09:38:43 (EST)
Poster: Roby Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Steve A Subject: Re: Thankyou Message: It is clear to me that despite many of us being hurt by our experiences we have gained courage from them. Perhaps the one thing we should be greatful to M for is that our experience of him and his organization has given us the resolve to fix in our lives all the things he screwed up. It is funny that this excerpt from your thank you post is just how I feel about my mom who as I mentioned in my response to your original thread is the experience it took me 40 years to overcome. I have even been thankful for that experience as it has kept me out of some bad situations over the years. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 09:45:09 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Rick Subject: Re: Huh?? (Re: Thankyou) Message: Rick, Interesting, I am still relating this discussion to my mom. I have felt that twinge when I say thank god for her abuse becasue it helped me deal with this or that and what you say is valid, I think, but also I believe we are in this life to fufill things on our 'list' of things to do in this life to prepare us for the next and I think I was meant to go through the things I have to gain what knowledge or experience I need from things in this life and have always felt this is a big one for me. Nothing is black and white and maybe this is one of those grey areas. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 10:26:25 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com To: Robyn Subject: Re: Huh?? (Re: Thankyou) Message: Robyn, I agree with you that there may be a 'highest good' and that what we 'go through' may be necessary to 'get where we're going'. And that we are ultimately responsible for 'what has happened to us'. On the other hand, I think the perpetrators in the specific dramas of life, are there for there own reasons, usually not for our benefit. It seems a lot cleaner to me to evaluate their actions and have corresponding feelings, based on the merit of what happened, rather than on the ultimate result. That way, abuse doesn't have to be 'let off the hook' for us to get where we're going. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 13:48:18 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Steve A Subject: Re: Huh?? (Re: Thankyou) Message: Actually, I think I knew what you meant. I was feeling a bit combative after Petrou's verbal tapdance on the other forum. Sorry :) But I am still reluctant to give MJ credit for contributing anything more than a chance to contribute to his personal welfare. A true prince. Steadfast in his devotion to his devotees' continuing their devotion. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 13:52:44 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Robyn Subject: Re: Huh?? (Re: Thankyou) Message: I'm not sure if what I go through gets me where I'm going or not. Only that going through it got me out of where I was. On second thought, lemme check that map again... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 14:25:48 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Brian Subject: Uh huh?? (Re: Thankyou) Message: Now I really AM confused. Go back in time (if you could) and if you could change the past (which you couldn't) then you could not become a follower of Maharaji. Then in the ensuing decades a whole different ball game would develope which could be entirely different. You would still have done things you'd prefer not to have done because that is one aspect of life we cannot change. So by now you could look back on your different past and say well that was not so good but look, something positive came out of it. My point is that you could reach similar positive conclusions about anything bad in the past. SInce you're only in this one time-line you can't appreciate what would have happened in another. Bad things and bad and wasteful influences are just that - bad. Human nature will attempt to salvage some good out of it. In another past destiny we would come to a similar conclusion. I will not give Maharaji credit for any of the things mentioned in this thread. By the way, I'll answer the emails some of you have sent to me, soon. Probably tomorrow, when time allows. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 15:19:41 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Rick Subject: to Rick (Re: Thankyou) Message: Rick, Thanks, I will ponder your post as it effects my situation. Even though, in my case, this has little to do with M other than why I was drawn in possibly. I am here on the forum to learn about others and myself. As I said I have always felt uncomfortable saying thank god I had bad experiences so that I wouldn't repeat them and you put it well 'abuse doesn't have to 'let off the hook'' which is very true wether it comes from M or else where. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 1998 at 17:46:32 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Rick Subject: An inveterate ingrate (Re: Thankyou) Message: Rick, Robyn, Steve and Brian: Thanks for bringing this up. I feel as though, on balance, the experience I had in DLM was beneficial. The reason for this has more to do with my fundamentally exploitative nature, than with Maharaj Ji's good graces. The episode happened at the right time, and I got out while the gettin' was good (i.e. when things loosened up in 1976). The whole episode helped me learn how to socialize again after some extremely traumatized experiences during the '60s. It cleaned me up, and I developed some healthy habits that are still with me. I expect that quite a few people took advantage of Maharaj Ji in this way, but that it's a story no one is much interested in. No villains or heroes. Also, I think that the traits that allowed me to escape MJ relatively unscathed also cost me dearly in other areas of my life. I've never had a romantic relationship that lasted longer than six months, for instance. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 14:04:22 (EST)
Poster: JW Email: To: Rick Subject: Re: Huh?? (Re: Thankyou) Message: Dear Brian If not for the bad would we ever truly appreciate the good?. M may have been responsible for the problem, but you and what you have done with this site has helped so many people. Do you not realize what a difference you have made to the many people who visit this site?. If not for M, I wouldn't have known you or the many other warm hearted people who post on this site. Steve, I believe if you give credit to someone who brought you abuse, which later appeared to be a good thing in the overall scheme of things, then you are undermining yourself. Don't you feel any funny twinge when you credit someone this way? When I do, it's the sound of guilt squashing my soul. Rick, excellent point. And I think you are pointing out the incredible rationalization and back-flips of thinking that can go on to avoid placing blame and responsibility where it belongs. Sometimes people who have been in prison say they are grateful for some of the things they learned there, but I have never heard anyone describe prison as a positive experience. I also think some people ascribe positive things to the Maharaji cult because at the time they got involved they had no structure in their lives and the cult provided some. It also was a place to meet people, and, in my case, I would say there was a certain exhilaration I got in being in a group with a common purpose that was considered positive for the entire world. I still miss that feeling from time to time to this day, although, that particular quality appears to no longer be a part of the Maharaji cult -- there aren't communial living situations, communities, nightly satsang, etc and no common purpose, except perhaps devotion to Maharaji, who lacks anything approaching a world vision. The only other place I remember experiencing the 'common purpose' feeling was in the anti-war movement before I became a premie. That was exciting and exhilarating too. The difference was, it was more chaotic and the means and ends were more complicated. Also, individual thinking was mostly encouraged. The Maharaji cult was utterly simplistic and uncomplicated. But it had much of the same equalities: A simplistic answer to all problems, little tolerance for dissenting views or doubts, and a feeling of superiority over other people who aren't in the cult/movement. I also saw some of those qualities in the anti-war movement, but that wasn't nearly as closed a system, with no centralized leader, and once the war ended, so did the movement. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
Date: Tues, Mar 24, 1998 at 14:42:53 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com To: JW Subject: Re: Huh?? (Re: Thankyou) Message: Indeed, those were the days. I was in SDS when I was in high school. Pulling myself out of that and a rigid socialistic dogma was almost as traumatic as leaving maharaji. Don't know how I fell for the guru cult after a fair warning about rigid thinking. The break with LSD and hippiedom was nice. During the 60's it seemed that anyone with long hair was 'cool'. Of course, it wasn't true but I was too young to know. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |