Ex-Premie.Org

Forum II Archive # 10

From: Mar 14, 1998

To: Mar 21, 1998

Page: 2 Of: 5


Mickey the Pharisee -:- A Message from Michael -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:34:20 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: A Message from Michael -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:49:16 (EST)
___Rick -:- Re: A Message from Michael -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 16:16:40 (EST)
___And On Anand Ji -:- Re: A Message from Michael -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 16:46:13 (EST)
___And On Anand Ji -:- Re: A Message from Michael -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 17:04:16 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: A Message from Michael -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 17:05:59 (EST)
___Reality Check -:- Re: A Message from Michael -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 19:40:53 (EST)
___Rick -:- Re: A Message from Michael -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 19:55:34 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: A Message from Michael -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 21:03:25 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: A Message from Michael -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 21:34:51 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: A Message from Michael -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 21:47:29 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: A Message from Michael -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 22:06:18 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: A Message from Michael -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 22:26:29 (EST)
___Rick -:- Re: A Message from Michael -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 23:27:07 (EST)
___Rick -:- Re: A Message from Michael -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 23:31:49 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: A Message from Michael -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 23:47:00 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: A Message from Michael -:- Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 01:40:57 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: A Message from Michael -:- Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 01:56:14 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: A Message from Michael -:- Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 16:11:46 (EST)
___Rick -:- Re: A Message from Michael -:- Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 18:05:55 (EST)
___Les -:- Re:Why the Assuptions -:- Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 18:56:31 (EST)
___Jim -:- Les' naivite cries 'kick me' -:- Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 20:30:44 (EST)
___Les -:- Re: Jim Kicks Himself -:- Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 23:02:21 (EST)
___Jim -:- Re: Jim Kicks Himself -:- Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 23:31:36 (EST)

David -:- God's condemnation of His creation -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 13:20:26 (EST)
___VP -:- Guru's condemnation of God's creation -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 13:47:40 (EST)
___Aesop -:- Re: God's condemnation of His creation -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 16:51:18 (EST)
___Nigel -:- Re: God's condemnation of His creation -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 17:52:48 (EST)
___David -:- Re: God's condemnation of His creation -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 19:20:12 (EST)
___Joy -:- Re: God's condemnation of His creation -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 20:52:45 (EST)
___David -:- Re: Guru's condemnation of God's creation -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 21:49:22 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: God's condemnation of His creation -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 21:50:09 (EST)
___Participant -:- Re: Maharaji's Work -:- Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 04:32:04 (EST)
___Nigel -:- Divinity and sanity... -:- Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 15:16:27 (EST)
___And On Anand Ji -:- Re: Divinity and sanity... -:- Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 17:13:57 (EST)

VP -:- Premie Rainbows -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 10:19:58 (EST)
___Joy -:- Re: Premie Rainbows -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 11:42:44 (EST)
___John K. -:- Gimme a sign! -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 11:53:59 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Gimme a sign! -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 12:42:55 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Premie Rainbows -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 12:52:43 (EST)
___VP -:- Devotion-I think I've got the concept now -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 12:58:29 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Devotion-I think I've got the concept now -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 13:00:56 (EST)
___VP -:- P.S. -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 13:05:05 (EST)
___John K. -:- humping the word -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 13:17:20 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: humping the word -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 13:32:37 (EST)
___Rick -:- Re: Devotion-I think I've got the concept now -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 13:46:42 (EST)
___And On Anand Ji -:- Re: Gimme a sign! -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 14:52:22 (EST)
___Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: Gimme a sign! -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:08:00 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Premie Rainbows -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:16:50 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Gimme a sign -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:23:09 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Another friend of Bill's -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:28:44 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Premie Rainbows -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:29:53 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Another friend of Bill's -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:32:38 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Gimme a sign! -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:34:56 (EST)
___JW -- Rainbows and Pink Triangles -:- Re: Gimme a sign! -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 20:42:25 (EST)
___Mickey the Pharisee -:- Re: Gimme a sign! -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 22:50:07 (EST)

Robyn -:- this hell in paradise -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 08:56:25 (EST)

Petrou -:- Funnythingonthewaytoforum -:- Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 23:46:43 (EST)
___Steve A -:- Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 00:53:32 (EST)
___Petrou -:- Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 03:09:16 (EST)
___Petrou -:- Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 03:11:00 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- He did say he is God! -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 04:34:22 (EST)
___Petrou -:- Re: He did say he is God! -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 05:48:08 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 08:00:14 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: He did say he is God! -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 08:39:00 (EST)
___Joy -:- Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 11:51:47 (EST)
___David -:- Re: He did say he is God! -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 12:01:40 (EST)
___John K. -:- guru logic -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 12:37:04 (EST)
___Robyn -:- guru logic lesson 2 -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 12:57:19 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: guru logic lesson 3 -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 13:21:38 (EST)
___Mr Ex -:- His cirrhosis is very advanced! -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 13:22:21 (EST)
___Eureka!!! -:- Re: He did say he is God! -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 17:11:48 (EST)
___Brian -:- Re: guru logic lesson 3 -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 18:35:06 (EST)
___jSCa -:- Re: He did say he is God! -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 22:44:11 (EST)

VP to Robyn -:- Sex and the Internet -:- Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 14:03:25 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Sex and the Internet -:- Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 15:44:41 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Sex and the Internet -:- Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 15:47:01 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Sex and the Internet -:- Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 16:12:17 (EST)
___John K. -:- I like this literary style! -:- Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 17:02:20 (EST)
___Steve A -:- Re: Sex and the Internet -:- Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 21:11:29 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Sex and the Internet -:- Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 21:31:09 (EST)
___Steve A -:- Re: Sex and the Internet -:- Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 21:54:33 (EST)
___VP -:- Misunderstanding -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 00:44:48 (EST)
___not telling -:- 'Twas I who said 'coward' -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 01:10:45 (EST)
___Petrou -:- Re: Sex and the Internet -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 03:32:27 (EST)
___reader -:- VP is really anon!! -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 04:04:23 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: VP is really anon!! -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 08:46:02 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: I like this literary style! -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 09:09:06 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Sex and the Internet -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 09:14:04 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Sex and the Internet -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 09:17:08 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: VP is really anon!! -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 09:23:06 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Sex and the Internet and VP is Anon, Katie...or Brian? -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 09:45:36 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: 'Twas I who said 'coward' -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 09:49:38 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: VP is really anon!! -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 09:51:41 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: Sex and the Internet and VP is Anon, Katie...or Brian? -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 10:12:33 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: Sex and the Internet and VP is Anon, Katie...or Brian? -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 10:13:53 (EST)
___VP -:- Re: Sex and the Internet and VP is Anon, Katie...or Brian? -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 10:25:35 (EST)
___eb -:- Re: 'Twas I who said 'coward' -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 12:24:44 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: 'Twas I who said 'coward' -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 12:58:19 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: 'Twas I who said 'coward' -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:09:40 (EST)
___Robyn -:- Re: 'Twas I who said 'coward' -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:25:10 (EST)
___And On Anand Ji -:- Twinister Sin (was " VP is really anon!!") -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:28:18 (EST)
___Katie -:- Re: Twinister Sin (was -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:34:54 (EST)
___eb -:- Re: 'Twas I who said 'coward' -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 16:30:32 (EST)

Jim -:- My reply to Les - #%*& page ate my post! -:- Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 13:56:50 (EST)
___Scott T. -:- Re: My reply to Les - #%*& page ate my post! -:- Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 22:22:08 (EST)
___Spock(Petrou) -:- Re: My reply to Les - #%*& page ate my post! -:- Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 03:49:14 (EST)



Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:34:20 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: Everyone
Subject: A Message from Michael
Message:
My Brothers and Sisters, I just re-read my response to Les, and I thought that perhaps my answer was just a little sharp. I've been fighting a fever which flutuates between 101 and 102 F all week, and it makes me a little impatient. I must admit, though, that I have no patience for this constant refrain of "Jesus taught this Knowledge; Buddha taught this Knowledge, Mithras taught this Knowldedge, etc." I remember that this was a fallacy which AIID promoted with their little stories every publication on Past Perfect Masters. But I really don't think that this idea holds up to scrutiny: we know that this is a technique taught by several meditiation traditions in India, but I don't think that every religious reference to Light counts as a reference to Knowledge! And those examples given by Les are the same as those given by Mili a few months ago; does Elan Vital hand it out on a little sheet for memorization? Isn't it the same stuff that was on www.premie.org just months ago? I do love to see Premies proof-texting like a Southern Baptist Preacher, but just because it's in print doesn't make it so, folks!!! Do you want to see the clear Light of reality? Do you want to hear the music of the wind blowing past your ears as you run free? Do you want to feel the power of the Word 'Think?' Do you want to taste the sweetness of personal responsibility? DO YOU WANT ENLIGHTENMENT?? What is involved in being enlightened? It means to be awake, to be aware. I know that for myself, and possibly for other Ex-premies, I became awake, I became aware, when I looked around and decided that I could no longer ignore the cognitive dissonance in my life; when I realized that this was not working, that none of these 'Lovers' could keep a marriage together, that none of us were actually happy, that we were ignoring things that were not to be ignored. I became enlightened when I said "I'm outta here!" Do you want to be enlightened? Then you should stand up and say BITE ME, MAHARAJI! Come on, say it with me: "BITE ME, MAHARAJI!" Oh, I can feel the Spirit in this room!!! Come on forward and be free!!! (Larkin? Will you and the choir please sing "Bite Me, Maharaji; You Can't Roll Me Tonight? Thank you) Come forward, and the members of Mickey's World Wide Prayer Team will give you your own copy of "The Guru Papers" and a tape of Hard-core Punk and Rap music which will wipe you clean of all that New Age drek you have been listening to. And for those of you who are unable to come forward at this time, Mickey's Mighty Monetary Musclemen are moving among you with plates. Remember, this IS a Love Offering, and I'd Love about $10,000.00. Can't ya feel it? Can't ya feel the movement in this room? Thank God Ami..(transmission interupted)
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:49:16 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@Mail.trib.net
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Re: A Message from Michael
Message:
Tell it brother Michael! I can feel the power right through my computer screen. When's your next revival meeting? Seriously, I really liked your answer to Les. I get tired of premies claiming that Jesus (or Buddha, or Mohammed, or whoever) "gave this knowledge". The other premie doctrine thing that bugs me is the idea that there is always ONE REAL perfect master on the planet, and when he dies, another one is born. And that Maharaji is the present incarnation of the perfect master. I believed this when I was a premie, but I'm not sure why. Anyway, thank you, Brother Michael! I hope it's the lord's will that you'll be healed soon (I'm taling about your fever).
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 16:16:40 (EST)
Poster: Rick
Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com
To: Katie
Subject: Re: A Message from Michael
Message:
If I remember correctly, maharaji was eight years old when the torch was passed to him. He heard a voice that said, "You are He". No one's ever heard the voice that said, "You are She", which is a case for sexism in cults. Why have there never been woman perfect masters? If an eight year old boy can do it, why can't a woman?
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 16:46:13 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji
Email: aoa
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Re: A Message from Michael
Message:
[--- snip ---] Come on, say it with me: 'BITE ME, MAHARAJI!' Oh, I can feel the Spirit in this room!!! [--- snip ---] [in a dull monotone, eyes glazed over] bite . . . me . . Maharaji. Can we do Barney the Purple dinosaur next? I hate him, too. :)
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 17:04:16 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji
Email: aoa
To: ----
Subject: Re: A Message from Michael
Message:
[--- snip ---] . . . Maharaji is the present incarnation of the perfect master. I believed this when I was a premie, but I'm not sure why. [--- snip ---] I even think Maharaji fell for it -- fell for Shri Hans' nonsense handed-down theory regarding Satguru succession throughout all ages of human history -- and I bet M has at least once tried to walk on water, failed, and puzzled deeply on the result of his experiment. "How come I can't walk on this water?" he must've mused to himself, deeply disappointed. "I wanted to."
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 17:05:59 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Rick
Subject: Re: A Message from Michael
Message:
If I remember correctly, maharaji was eight years old when the torch was passed to him. He heard a voice that said, 'You are He'. No one's ever heard the voice that said, 'You are She', which is a case for sexism in cults. Why have there never been woman perfect masters? If an eight year old boy can do it, why can't a woman? Dear Rick - there's a quote from Maharaji that used to be on the site (it may still be on here but I can't find it) that said that women are privileged because they get to give birth to the perfect master. He said something about how women are the doorway for God to come into the world. Guess that's why they can't be perfect masters themselves - with that and wombs too, women would have WAY too much power! Appreciate the question, by the way! Regards from Katie
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 19:40:53 (EST)
Poster: Reality Check
Email:
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Re: A Message from Michael
Message:
> Mickey wrote: I became aware, when I looked around and decided that I could no longer ignore the cognitive dissonance in my life; when I realized that this was not working, that none of these 'Lovers' could keep a marriage together, that none of us were actually happy, that we were ignoring things that were not to be ignored. > None of us were happy? Let's be precise bud - you weren't happy. Can't hold a marriage together? Many have. And what does that have to do with being a premie? The ratio of successful to unsuccessful marriages is probably a reflection of the broader society in which we live. So you made a change that worked for you. Good for you. Now stop generalizing that such a change is good for everybody and you will be considered tolerant (I know it's hard but maybe you can work on it).
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 19:55:34 (EST)
Poster: Rick
Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com
To: Reality Check
Subject: Re: A Message from Michael
Message:
I wasn't happy either, so I guess that makes two. But premies around me were generally denying large parts of themselves to reach the selective bliss that maharaji promised, if one were to totally concentrate on it. It's true that half of marriages break up; I don't know the ratio between premies to non-premies. But I think in light of the exquisite bliss that maharaji promised was available, that premie marriages would be abundantly blissful.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 21:03:25 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: A Message from Michael
Message:
Katie, et al: Regarding: The other premie doctrine thing that bugs me is the idea that there is always ONE REAL perfect master on the planet, and when he dies, another one is born. And that Maharaji is the present incarnation of the perfect master. I believed this when I was a premie, but I'm not sure why. I recall the first dissonant experience I had about this doctrine. I was reading Tulsidas' Ramayana with my friend Rita and we got to the part where it describes how Ram received Knowledge, or Understanding, or something from his Guru (who was a wandering mendicant whose name escapes me right now). So I said to Rita, "Well, this says they were both alive and on earth at the time of the Ramayana so which one was the Perfect Master? Rita had an absolutely elegant answer to this. She felt that at that time there must have been two Perfect Masters existing at the same time, because the Universe was twice as big. Makes sense... -Scott
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 21:34:51 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Rick
Subject: Re: A Message from Michael
Message:
Rick: Regarding: No one's ever heard the voice that said, "You are She", which is a case for sexism in cults I beg to differ. Ever heard of Mary Baker Eddy? -Scott
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 21:47:29 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@Mail.trib.net
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: A Message from Michael
Message:
Rick: Regarding: No one's ever heard the voice that said, 'You are She', which is a case for sexism in cults I beg to differ. Ever heard of Mary Baker Eddy? -Scott Point taken, Scott, (you could argue about Elizabeth Clare Prophet, etc. too), but as far as I know, I don't think either one of them claimed/claims to be the incarnation of god on the planet.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 22:06:18 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: A Message from Michael
Message:
Rick: Regarding: No one's ever heard the voice that said, 'You are She', which is a case for sexism in cults I beg to differ. Ever heard of Mary Baker Eddy? -Scott Point taken, Scott, (you could argue about Elizabeth Clare Prophet, etc. too), but as far as I know, I don't think either one of them claimed/claims to be the incarnation of god on the planet. Katie: I had my own demons regarding Ms. Eddy's mission. She would not have claimed Godhood for herself or anyone else, including Christ. They were all, in her words, "reflections." She was, however, according to her own biographical account, singled out and "called" to her mission, quite literally. I don't know much about E.C. Prophet, but have heard that was a similar situation. -Scott
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 22:26:29 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: A Message from Michael
Message:
Scott - Were you by any chance raised as a Christian Scientist or around Christian Scientists? I know very little about the faith (sect? demonimation?), but have a friend whose mother is a Christian Scientist and it's been really rough for him. She's a really nice woman and doesn't prostelytyze, but does refuse to seek medical help when she needs it, won't get Medicaid, and so forth, which is hard on her kids. P.S. Regarding female perfect masters, GMJ really did say the thing I paraphrased in my answer to Rick. Maybe Brian still has the quote around somewhere.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 23:27:07 (EST)
Poster: Rick
Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: A Message from Michael
Message:
Rick: Regarding: No one's ever heard the voice that said, 'You are She', which is a case for sexism in cults I beg to differ. Ever heard of Mary Baker Eddy? -Scott No, by golly. Mary Baker Eddy? Pray tell, sounds good.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 23:31:49 (EST)
Poster: Rick
Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com
To: Katie
Subject: Re: A Message from Michael
Message:
Scott - Were you by any chance raised as a Christian Scientist or around Christian Scientists? I know very little about the faith (sect? demonimation?), but have a friend whose mother is a Christian Scientist and it's been really rough for him. She's a really nice woman and doesn't prostelytyze, but does refuse to seek medical help when she needs it, won't get Medicaid, and so forth, which is hard on her kids. P.S. Regarding female perfect masters, GMJ really did say the thing I paraphrased in my answer to Rick. Maybe Brian still has the quote around somewhere. I remember the quote the Katie. I read maharaji's satsang fervently when I was a premie, seeking constant support for my delusions. It was a Q and A and he answered as though it was a sincere respect for women, with the usual reference to Guru Maharaj Ji as a third person.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 23:47:00 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@Mail.trib.net
To: Rick
Subject: Re: A Message from Michael
Message:
Thanks again, Rick - I was afraid someone would accuse me of making it up! That quote really bugs me, for what (I hope) are obvious reasons - the idea that women's purpose is to bear children and so forth. Katie P.S. I think Mary Baker Eddy is the founder of Christian Science. Scott knows more, I'm sure, but he's taking a break from the forum to watch Arizona beat my alma mater in the NCAA tournament :(.
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Date: Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 01:40:57 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: A Message from Michael
Message:
Katie: Regarding: Were you by any chance raised as a Christian Scientist or around Christian Scientists? Yes, my mother was in CS. I recently had a conversation with Thelma Z. Lavine on this topic. As you know she's on my committee. Thelma's father was a CS. We were both raised in a half-CS household that was a sort of low-level religious war. I think we are both seeking the same sort of thing in Philosophy, although Thelma is much better at it than I. We want a situation or universal circumstance that has a profound respect of spiritual experience without putting in on an untouchable pedestal. From the time my mother was about 25 she has never read a book that was not sanctified by the Mother Church, and has read little other than the Bible and Science and Health, and has never read the Bible without Science and Health in one hand. I understand your friend's difficulty very well. -Scott
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Date: Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 01:56:14 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Rick
Subject: Re: A Message from Michael
Message:
Rick: MBE, the founder of Christian Science and author of Science and Health, with Key to the Scriptures. Although she is not revered as a God a brief visit to a CS Reading Room will leave little doubt about the identity behind that movement. There's also a fascinating biography of her that relates the story of her "calling." I doubt if MJ could claim such a visitation. CS was a bombshell in the late nineteenth, early twentieth centuries and is currently the only officially recognized spiritual healing treatment insurable under most medical plans as well as Medicare and MediCal (I think). And then there's the Mother Church Complex in Boston, next door to the Boston Symphony in the heart of Backbay. By the way, H.R. Haldeman was a Christian Scientist, something they are not too proud of. -Scott
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Date: Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 16:11:46 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Rick
Subject: Re: A Message from Michael
Message:
Rick, I can write this and maybe I won't post it, just get it out of my system. If an eight year old boy can do it, why can't a woman? Kind of smacks of an insult to womankind. I'd venture to say if a man can do it a woman can probably do it better. Robyn Gee, I liked that last statement so well I guess I will post it.
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Date: Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 18:05:55 (EST)
Poster: Rick
Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: A Message from Michael
Message:
Rick, I can write this and maybe I won't post it, just get it out of my system. If an eight year old boy can do it, why can't a woman? Kind of smacks of an insult to womankind. I'd venture to say if a man can do it a woman can probably do it better. Robyn Gee, I liked that last statement so well I guess I will post it. Robyn, I'm glad you posted it. I'd hate for you to have held that back. After I sent that post I realized that it could be construed that I thought that. Obviously, if a man can do it, so can a woman. What I meant (and I should have been more clear) was that in a sexist world where women are thought by those in power to not be able to do as good as men, that if an eight year old boy can do something, then you'd think they'd at least think a woman could do as well. My point was just how insulting it is that an eight year old boy becomes the "Lord" while no women (or so few) have been. I'd have you as Lord any day, Robyn.
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Date: Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 18:56:31 (EST)
Poster: Les
Email:
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Re:Why the Assuptions (Re: A Message from Michael)
Message:
Mickey, I don't know or particularly care about "Knowledge" per se having been taught in the past, my area of interest is very specific: the practice of turning one's attention inward and uniting it with the soul (which the quotes I offered supported). Would you seriously contend that this has not been a widespread practice, or that great success has not been claimed through doing it by the so-called mystic saints of all religions? And why the constant assumption I'm part of some premie “group” or training program? I've always practiced alone, listened to Maharaji alone, and I now address you alone. In fact, an element of my practice has been to religiously avoid the copious amounts of premie insanity that’s swirled around me through the years (however, in defense of the folly which oozes from inexperience—do you think the young devotees of Jesus, for example, were any different? if so, I can provide plenty of contrary evidence). What I care about acquiring for myself, and the only thing I care about acquiring for myself (i.e., through Knowledge and Maharaji), is how to merge more deeply and consistently than I already know how to do. As long as that's working I couldn't care less about the rest of it. Probably a good description of the stance I'm taking in the opening rounds of these discussions is: I don't see how I could've made the progress I've made in merging by practicing a bogus Knowledge and listening to a phony master. That’s why it seems fair to me that you stop lumping me together with your bad premie memories until you know otherwise.
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Date: Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 20:30:44 (EST)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Les
Subject: Les' naivite cries 'kick me' (Re: A Message from Michael)
Message:
Mickey, I don't know or particularly care about 'Knowledge' per se having been taught in the past, my area of interest is very specific: the practice of turning one's attention inward and uniting it with the soul (which the quotes I offered supported). Would you seriously contend that this has not been a widespread practice, or that great success has not been claimed through doing it by the so-called mystic saints of all religions? And why the constant assumption I'm part of some premie “group” or training program? I've always practiced alone, listened to Maharaji alone, and I now address you alone. In fact, an element of my practice has been to religiously avoid the copious amounts of premie insanity that’s swirled around me through the years (however, in defense of the folly which oozes from inexperience—do you think the young devotees of Jesus, for example, were any different? if so, I can provide plenty of contrary evidence). What I care about acquiring for myself, and the only thing I care about acquiring for myself (i.e., through Knowledge and Maharaji), is how to merge more deeply and consistently than I already know how to do. As long as that's working I couldn't care less about the rest of it. Probably a good description of the stance I'm taking in the opening rounds of these discussions is: I don't see how I could've made the progress I've made in merging by practicing a bogus Knowledge and listening to a phony master. That’s why it seems fair to me that you stop lumping me together with your bad premie memories until you know otherwise. Les, All sorts of people have claimed all sorts of things throughout time. Why are you so selective? People all around the world have claimed that there are 'evil' forces and that they can communicate, control or be controlled by them. Does taht make them true? They've sacrificed animals, property and people to the 'gods' and they've done that all over the world. Does that make these practises true? They've thought they could commune with the dead. Not just here. Here, there and everywhere. True just becuase they've claimed it? So now you're so impressed that some people ahve claimed to have mystical experiences. How do you know it's not all just wishful thinking and delusion, your own 'experience' no exception? YOU DON'T! There's no way in the world you can. Your 'progress in merging' sounds incredibly naive. Tell me, how deep are you? 4 inches? 10 feet? Oh Les, you can't see yourself. You can't even see how funny you look -- the earnest, arrogant merger. How're you ever going to get enough perspective to know if you're not simply fooling yourself? Read the Guru Papers.
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Date: Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 23:02:21 (EST)
Poster: Les
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Jim Kicks Himself (Re: A Message from Michael)
Message:
Mickey, I don't know or particularly care about 'Knowledge' per se having been taught in the past, my area of interest is very specific: the practice of turning one's attention inward and uniting it with the soul (which the quotes I offered supported). Would you seriously contend that this has not been a widespread practice, or that great success has not been claimed through doing it by the so-called mystic saints of all religions? And why the constant assumption I'm part of some premie “group” or training program? I've always practiced alone, listened to Maharaji alone, and I now address you alone. In fact, an element of my practice has been to religiously avoid the copious amounts of premie insanity that’s swirled around me through the years (however, in defense of the folly which oozes from inexperience—do you think the young devotees of Jesus, for example, were any different? if so, I can provide plenty of contrary evidence). What I care about acquiring for myself, and the only thing I care about acquiring for myself (i.e., through Knowledge and Maharaji), is how to merge more deeply and consistently than I already know how to do. As long as that's working I couldn't care less about the rest of it. Probably a good description of the stance I'm taking in the opening rounds of these discussions is: I don't see how I could've made the progress I've made in merging by practicing a bogus Knowledge and listening to a phony master. That’s why it seems fair to me that you stop lumping me together with your bad premie memories until you know otherwise. Les, All sorts of people have claimed all sorts of things throughout time. Why are you so selective? People all around the world have claimed that there are 'evil' forces and that they can communicate, control or be controlled by them. Does taht make them true? They've sacrificed animals, property and people to the 'gods' and they've done that all over the world. Does that make these practises true? They've thought they could commune with the dead. Not just here. Here, there and everywhere. True just becuase they've claimed it? So now you're so impressed that some people ahve claimed to have mystical experiences. How do you know it's not all just wishful thinking and delusion, your own 'experience' no exception? YOU DON'T! There's no way in the world you can. Your 'progress in merging' sounds incredibly naive. Tell me, how deep are you? 4 inches? 10 feet? Oh Les, you can't see yourself. You can't even see how funny you look -- the earnest, arrogant merger. How're you ever going to get enough perspective to know if you're not simply fooling yourself? Read the Guru Papers. Jim, I was responding to Mickey's apparent belief that some kind of inner experience is possible. Of course, I already know better than to talk to you about the hundreds of first-hand reports of merging. Whether you want to admit it or not, those reports are evidence. Not proof, but evidence. I myself am not concerned about all the other things people claim, my interest is what I've stated. You kick your credibility in head by admitting you cannot tell the difference between your mentality and experience.
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Date: Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 23:31:36 (EST)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Les
Subject: Re: Jim Kicks Himself (Re: A Message from Michael)
Message:
Unexamined evidence is worthless. Get real, Jose. Trying to impress with numbers is deceptive. A whole lot of people claim that Jesus saved them. Did he? A whole lot of people claim they wer abducted by aliens. Were they? A whole lot of people claim they've experienced God. Have they?
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 13:20:26 (EST)
Poster: David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Everyone
Subject: God's condemnation of His creation
Message:
Here ye thus, for ye are condemned. Yea, wherever you look towards God, know ye this, you are an abomination unto the sight of God. Why do I say this? Because no matter what religion or Guru you care to investigate, you will find the same story, that we are condemned, the lowest of the low, the dark souls doomed to damnation. This is the message that religions teach us and the lesson that the Guru teaches us is that we are "like flies round a dungheap" (Maharaji's own words). We are wretched beings who are unworthy of being saved or even loved. Man is a cesspit, a dark and doomed creature who is to be despised and reviled. God has created a Hell for us to suffer in. The Christians believe that we will go there after we die. The Hindus & Buddists believe the Hell is here on earth and the Guru believes that too although he has added his own touch with the creation of the "mind" as being Hell. And verily I say unto you, you are doomed to live in hell because you are Judas the unspeakable one. There is no retribition for you. God in His anger has condemned you. You who are lower than the snake that creeps in a dark place. In the words of the most blessed and divine mother, you are an asshole. OK, that is the picture that is painted by God, Gurus and religion. That you are shit, basically. Condemned to suffer in your own filth and so on and so forth; asshole, fly round a dungheap, stupid person of the world, Judas, lover of maya, in your mind, one who crucified Him last time, going to burn in Hell etc. etc. (I could go on). Notice who is doing the condemning, hating and reviling though? It is not God, it is not love. It is some little men who think they know what they're talking about. Some little jumped up men and women who think they are better than other people. Some little men and women with no love. You may be an athiest or you may not be. Of one thing I'm certain of though, all of the above is not God.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 13:47:40 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: David
Subject: Guru's condemnation of God's creation (Re: God's condemnation of His creation)
Message:
I agree with your theory that some unqualified people have a lot to say about what God thinks about us. They don't seem very full of love for mankind, do they?
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 16:51:18 (EST)
Poster: Aesop
Email:
To: David
Subject: Re: God's condemnation of His creation
Message:
Here ye thus, for ye are condemned. Yea, wherever you look towards God, know ye this, you are an abomination unto the sight of God. Why do I say this? Because no matter what religion or Guru you care to investigate, you will find the same story, that we are condemned, the lowest of the low, the dark souls doomed to damnation. This is the message that religions teach us and the lesson that the Guru teaches us is that we are 'like flies round a dungheap' (Maharaji's own words). We are wretched beings who are unworthy of being saved or even loved. Man is a cesspit, a dark and doomed creature who is to be despised and reviled. God has created a Hell for us to suffer in. The Christians believe that we will go there after we die. The Hindus & Buddists believe the Hell is here on earth and the Guru believes that too although he has added his own touch with the creation of the 'mind' as being Hell. And verily I say unto you, you are doomed to live in hell because you are Judas the unspeakable one. There is no retribition for you. God in His anger has condemned you. You who are lower than the snake that creeps in a dark place. In the words of the most blessed and divine mother, you are an asshole. OK, that is the picture that is painted by God, Gurus and religion. That you are shit, basically. Condemned to suffer in your own filth and so on and so forth; asshole, fly round a dungheap, stupid person of the world, Judas, lover of maya, in your mind, one who crucified Him last time, going to burn in Hell etc. etc. (I could go on). Notice who is doing the condemning, hating and reviling though? It is not God, it is not love. It is some little men who think they know what they're talking about. Some little jumped up men and women who think they are better than other people. Some little men and women with no love. You may be an athiest or you may not be. Of one thing I'm certain of though, all of the above is not God. Boy David, did you ever misread what M has been saying... big time! It boggles my mind how far off people get when they filter something pretty simple through their complex mind.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 17:52:48 (EST)
Poster: Nigel
Email: redcrow@demon.co.uk
To: Aesop
Subject: Re: God's condemnation of His creation
Message:
I seem to have the same mind-filter problem as David. I can remember Maharaj Ji being very contemptuous of all human activities other than the practice of Knowledge. We were crazy, the world was crazy... Now I just think he's crazy.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 19:20:12 (EST)
Poster: David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: God's condemnation of His creation
Message:
Crazy, yes. The very activities he condemns are the ones which he himself indulges in. When M was just 16 and before the holy family split, Maharaji was instructing the ashram premies to be totally celibate. At that time his Mother, Mata Ji, found condoms and cannabis in Maharaji's room. When Mata Ji questioned him about it he just told her to f+~%+ off and said it was none of her business. He has always preached a non worldly lifestyle and yet he drinks and smokes and is consumed by materialism. Now there is nothing wrong with materialism etc but to preach the opposite of what you live means that what you preach has nil validity. In all of my years following Maharaji he only showed contempt, or at best derision, towards other people. You only have to listen to his speeches to realise that he openly condemns this world and the efforts of the people in it. Someone has said; God never needs to forgive because he never condemns. It is humans who condemn and make up hierarchies for themselves. __________________
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 20:52:45 (EST)
Poster: Joy
Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com
To: David
Subject: Re: God's condemnation of His creation
Message:
David, that's interesting that you speak about Maharaji's derisive attitude towards humanity. In around 1990, about 9 years after having left the whole thing, I decided to accompany some premie friends to a program in Vancouver just to see if I could listen to M with an open mind and try and see if maybe I'd missed something, or at least determine exactly what he was trying to say, which of course we never really listened to properly as premies, the analytical mind being totally suspended. My initial impression was that he was incredibly arrogant. He has a disdain and disrespect for humanity that immediately came through his voice and mannerisms and speech patterns. It so offended me that after five minutes I got up and walked out (fortunately I had the last seat in the last row, so it wasn't too obvious, but I would've done it from the first row if I had to). I really could not tolerate his arrogance and superior attitude for another second longer. I spent the rest of the program waiting for my friends in the hotel lobby, looking in the shops, which was a much more interesting experience than listening to his bullshit for an hour.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 21:49:22 (EST)
Poster: David
Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk
To: VP
Subject: Re: Guru's condemnation of God's creation (Re: God's condemnation of His creation)
Message:
That's right, no love at all. I understand why you changed the title of the thread. My original title and post was to illustrate that the "little men" have instilled in people a totally false picture of what God may be. When people talk about God there is often a feeling of discomfort or even fear in people. Because the little men/women have used an image of a cruel and fearsome God so that they can control people. This myth of God being a divine judge who can send us to hell has been developed and instilled into people over many generations. And yet, would you condemn and judge your own children in that way? Of course not. Does Maharaji love his devotees even? Does he show love and compassion to those who gave their lives and their hearts to him? Well what do you think? And if God ever did manifest Himself in human form do you really think anyone would want to leave Him? Do you really think He would make a select cult for a few (now middle-aged) ex hippies? To all the premies who are reading this, I ask you a question: Do you believe that Maharaji is the Lord God incarnate, the superior power in person, come with more power than ever before? What's your answer, premies? Yes or No? Please write your answer here on the forum. If you say he's God, then I'll accept that. But if you say he's not God then I'll have to ask you why the hell are you following him?
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 21:50:09 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: God's condemnation of His creation
Message:
Nigel: Regarding: Now I just think he's crazy. That would be nice, but I can't help worrying that he might be rational, and that it's just his "trip" that's crazy. -Scott
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Date: Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 04:32:04 (EST)
Poster: Participant
Email:
To: All
Subject: Re: Maharaji's Work (Re: God's condemnation of His creation)
Message:
Ex-premies on this forum are continually insulting Maharaji in the most gross and disgusting manner. They do not seem to realise how hard Maharaji is working to spread this Knowledge. Here is a schedule of thirty three events he attended in 1997 that I have put together from videos seen in our local community. This demonstrates both his level of committment and his need for the jet ex-premies are continually sneering about. It's not as if Maharaji enjoys all this travel and is participating in these events for his enjoyment. This list is not necessarily complete and it's indicative of his efforts that Maharaji needed a four month rest at the beginning of the year to recover from 1996. Baisakhi Festival, India 4/11-13/97 Universal City, USA 5/23/97 Washington DC, USA 5/25/97 Paris, France 6/1/97 Mannheim, Germany 6/4/97 Barcelona, Portugal 6/7-9/97 Milan, Italy 6/12-13/97 Leicester, England 6/15/97 Brighton, England 6/16-17/97 Copenhagen, Denmark 6/20/97 Wembley, England 6/22/97 Toronto, Canada 6/29/97 New York, USA 6/30/97 Oakland, USA 7/5-6/97 Miami Beach, USA 7/12-13/97 Vera Cruz, Mexico 7/15/97 Isla Margarita 7/17-18/97 Santiago, Chile 7/20-21/97 Buenos Aires, Brazil 7/23/97 Sao Paulo, Brazil 7/26/97 Abidjan, Ivory Coast 7/30-31/97 Durban, South Africa 8/5-6/97 Amaroo, Australia 8/23/97 Kaohsiung, Taiwan 9/6-7/97 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia 9/10-11/97 Tokyo, Japan 9/29-30/97 Denver, USA 10/14/97 Long Beach, USA 10/18/97 Calcutta, India 11/4-5/97 Kathmandu, Nepal 11/8/97 New Delhi, India 11/14/97 New Delhi, India 11/18-20/97 Long Beach, USA 12/4-6/97
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Date: Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 15:16:27 (EST)
Poster: Nigel
Email: redcrow.demon.co.uk
To: Scott T.
Subject: Divinity and sanity... (Re: God's condemnation of His creation)
Message:
Nigel: Regarding: Now I just think he's crazy. That would be nice, but I can't help worrying that he might be rational, and that it's just his 'trip' that's crazy. -Scott I don't intend any disrespect to genuine sufferers from delusional disorders here, but a curious thought has occurred: If I were to tell every person I met from now on that I was the living incarnation of God, and only by MY grace would the world be saved, it would only be a matter of time before I was compulsarily committed for psychiatric help. In the UK, it only requires a doctor's signature, and the consent of two family members, for a person to be sectioned under the Mental Health Act. The only thing that might prevent such intervention from the sanity-enforcement police that I can think of would be if I had a happy band of followers who actually believed me. What do you reckon?
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Date: Fri, Mar 20, 1998 at 17:13:57 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji
Email: aoa
To: Nigel
Subject: Re: Divinity and sanity... (Re: God's condemnation of His creation)
Message:
[--- snip ---] If I were to tell every person I met from now on that I was the living incarnation of God, and only by MY grace would [--- snip ---] sanity-enforcement police that I can think of would be if I had a happy band of followers who actually believed me. [--- snip ---] I think if you started saying it when you were eight, and people believed you in large numbers, it would be an entirely different theatre, as it were. The theatre of a street alcoholic saying the same thing is that everyone brushes him by, except the men in white coats. It depends on the theatre. Also -- Maharaji seems careful as to when is a good time to proclaim divinity. I'm sure that's how he survived the early period, intact. He in fact did much more than survive -- he flourished, so to speak.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 10:19:58 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Premie Rainbows
Message:
Alright, fess up! How many of you had one of those little rainbows in the back window of your car in the 70's? All of the premies I knew had them. Do you even know what I am talking about? VP
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 11:42:44 (EST)
Poster: Joy
Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com
To: VP
Subject: Re: Premie Rainbows
Message:
VP, I never owned a car in the 70s since I lived in the ashram most of that time. But when I did buy a car once I got out I put a Grateful Dead lightning skull sticker in the back window (circa 1983) and I still have the car and can't get the sticker off, it's melded to the glass. I'd like to replace it with a "Free Tibet" bumper sticker or something more timely, but will have to forever proclaim to the world that I was a Deadhead. P.S. Don't the rainbow motifs mean something different now? Isn't it a symbol for being gay? I'm not sure.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 11:53:59 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: Joy
Subject: Gimme a sign! (Re: Premie Rainbows)
Message:
No way! Rainbows don't mean you're gay...I don't think so anyway. Hmmmm...I know pink triangles mean you're gay, but I never heard of the rainbow. We need to come up with a symbol that ex-premies can use, you know to identify us to each other. So, when we're on the road and we see another ex -premie we can wave, honk, scream JSCA, you know, whatever. Maybe a bumper sticker like "Truth? Ahhh baloney!"
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 12:42:55 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: John K.
Subject: Re: Gimme a sign! (Re: Premie Rainbows)
Message:
Joy and JohnK., Yes, the square rainbows mean you are gay or that you are a gay rights supporter, at least where I live. (Upside down pink triangle, too.) The premie rainbows were rainbow shaped. (Inverted U) I guess ashram premies wouldn't have cars backn then. I forgot about that vow of poverty thing.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 12:52:43 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Joy
Subject: Re: Premie Rainbows
Message:
Joy, I think the gay symbol is a pink triangle. My older daughter is grappling with these issues now so maybe it is just a lesbian symbol. My God if she knew I discussed her here like this she'd be mad! I never put stickers on my car windows and only one bumper sticker from my daughter's college. To my nerotic self it is akin to writing on your skin, you know messages, phone numbers, home work assignments. That is a pet peeve of mine that I have projected onto my cars. Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 12:58:29 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Joy and other ashram exs,
Subject: Devotion-I think I've got the concept now (Re: Premie Rainbows)
Message:
Ashram ex's, Ok, I hate to bring up devotion again (yuck), but I think I've got it now. 1) If you used to follow GMJ's divine light teachings and you were truely 100% devoted, you moved into the ashram, gave up wordly belongings, family members and pursuit of your "self." 2) If you weren't truely devoted, you kept doing what you wanted to and enjoying the K while having a life. Now it is very convenient for you that the new teachings fit right in with this. In other words, the really devoted people were the ones to suffer. The ones who weren't following the teachings to the letter were the ones who were rewarded and the new dogma makes total sense to them.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 13:00:56 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: VP
Subject: Re: Devotion-I think I've got the concept now (Re: Premie Rainbows)
Message:
VP, That is the conclusion I've come to also and consider myself lucky to have been in the 2nd group. Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 13:05:05 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Exs
Subject: P.S. (Re: Premie Rainbows)
Message:
Ashram ex's, Ok, I hate to bring up devotion again (yuck), but I think I've got it now. 1) If you used to follow GMJ's divine light teachings and you were truely 100% devoted, you moved into the ashram, gave up wordly belongings, family members and pursuit of your 'self.' 2) If you weren't truely devoted, you kept doing what you wanted to and enjoying the K while having a life. Now it is very convenient for you that the new teachings fit right in with this. In other words, the really devoted people were the ones to suffer. The ones who weren't following the teachings to the letter were the ones who were rewarded and the new dogma makes total sense to them. P.S. I forgot to add that the ones who couldn't move into the ashram, but wanted to because they were also devoted, wallowed in guilt about this and therefore also suffered!
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 13:17:20 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: VP
Subject: humping the word (Re: Premie Rainbows)
Message:
Of course we had cars! What do you think we walked everywhere? I used to drive a number of different cars to work. At one time, the women's ashram was right next door to us and for some reason we had to switch vehicles around a lot, so I would show up at work in all these different cars and it would totally blow my co-workers minds. One guy in particular used to ask me endless questions about my living situation. He got real excited when he found out we would all get together every night. And he got even more excited when he found out the women and men lived right next door to each other. He had one thing on his brain from morning till night - sex. He could not believe that anyone would actually choose to be celibate. Which reminds me of one of the favorite ways I ever heard meditation described - 'humping the word'. (by an intitiator - not the guru)
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 13:32:37 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: John K.
Subject: Re: humping the word (Re: Premie Rainbows)
Message:
Hahahahahahaha! I guess something was on that initiator's mind, too... I personally get a lot more satisfaction from sex than I have gotten from eyeball pushing. (Hey, the comment about the cars was a joke- a bad one.)
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 13:46:42 (EST)
Poster: Rick
Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com
To: VP
Subject: Re: Devotion-I think I've got the concept now (Re: Premie Rainbows)
Message:
I never lived in the ashram but I remember there being a whole spectrum of dedication. There were premies in the ashram who just went through the motions and seemed to be there to avoid responsibility. And there were "householders" who couldn't get enough s,s and m. It took a certain gumption I didn't have to get in the ashram.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 14:52:22 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji
Email: aoa
To: VP
Subject: Re: Gimme a sign! (Re: Premie Rainbows)
Message:
Joy and JohnK., Yes, the square rainbows mean you are gay or that you are a gay rights supporter, at least where I live. (Upside down pink triangle, too.) The premie rainbows were rainbow shaped. (Inverted U) I guess ashram premies wouldn't have cars backn then. I forgot about that vow of poverty thing. That is so concrete: "Upside down pink triangle." As though there were a preferred orientation. :) E.g. right side up. I had to stop and think for a bit why this would be the common-sense definition of a triangle's natural orientation in space; the more obvious example would be the Great Pyramid of Giza -- it perforce has a right side that must be up! It cannot be the other way -- so it really does have an upside. And that is the orientation of the gay symbol: the base of the pyramid is on top, the point, below it (upside down, just as you say). Pink upside-down pyramid shape would be more accurate, I think. Since I think largely in the abstract, and in metaphor, there is no "upside" to a triangle, whereas there is one to a pyramid.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:08:00 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: John K.
Subject: Re: Gimme a sign! (Re: Premie Rainbows)
Message:
No way! Rainbows don't mean you're gay...I don't think so anyway. Hmmmm...I know pink triangles mean you're gay, but I never heard of the rainbow. We need to come up with a symbol that ex-premies can use, you know to identify us to each other. So, when we're on the road and we see another ex -premie we can wave, honk, scream JSCA, you know, whatever. Maybe a bumper sticker like 'Truth? Ahhh baloney!' Ya Rubes! The rainbows are now a symbol of diversity. Gays and Straights together use them, at least all those who realize that we should be united.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:16:50 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: VP
Subject: Re: Premie Rainbows
Message:
VP - I thought those little rainbows were a hippie thing. I had embroidered patches like that sewn on my jeans. I probably would have scraped mine OFF the car if I'd had one when I became a premie - just like I got rid of all my hippie books and clothes. Instead of a rainbow, I had Guru Maharaji bumper stickers (can't even remember what they said, but I had two of them), plus my mom's AA "Easy Does It" sticker which I couldn't get off the car. (BTW, does everyone here know that "Another friend of Bill's" is an AA bumper sticker. At least it used to be!).
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:23:09 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: And On Anand Ji
Subject: Re: Gimme a sign (Re: Premie Rainbows)
Message:
AOAJ, Semantics! Semantics! Okay, the point (pinnacle?) is facing towards the ground and the flat edge (which would be the base of the pyramid) is at the top. Who said there is a preferred orientation? Certainly not I!! And to Mickey, I agree with you completely.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:28:44 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Katie
Subject: Another friend of Bill's (Re: Premie Rainbows)
Message:
Katie, I don't understand. Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:29:53 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: Premie Rainbows
Message:
Katie, They were a hippie thing, but there were some premies in our area selling them. All of the premies in our town had them on their cars (and probably some unsuspecting others!) A premie tried to give one to my mom -"I'm not putting that thing on my car!" I thought maybe this was a more universal symbol, but I guess not. Just curious. VP
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:32:38 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: Another friend of Bill's (Re: Premie Rainbows)
Message:
Hi Robyn - The guy who founded AA was named Bill W. (no last name so anonymous). The bumper sticker "Another Friend of Bill's" is so people in AA can recognize each other, I guess. My mom's been involved in AA since 1972 so I was sort of raised as an AA kid, thus know all the slogans, etc.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:34:56 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: And On Anand Ji
Subject: Re: Gimme a sign! (Re: Premie Rainbows)
Message:
AOAJ, Since we are playing with semantics, A pyramid is not a shape, it is a form. (shapes are two dimensional and forms are three dimensional) It's true.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 20:42:25 (EST)
Poster: JW -- Rainbows and Pink Triangles
Email:
To: Mickey the Pharisee
Subject: Re: Gimme a sign! (Re: Premie Rainbows)
Message:
I thought I would chime in here to say that, like Mickey said, the rainbow has been adopted as a symbol in celebration of diversity, but in reality, mostly only gays, and "gay-friendly" people use them. Here in San Francisco, there is a rainbow flag, approximately the size of a football field, flying over the Castro District, the gay capitol of the entire world and rainbow stickers seem to be in about every other car. During gay pride month (June) rainbow flags adorn light poles in a number of big cities with large gay populations, like SF, New York and, of course, fabulous West Hollywood. I recall the rainbow sticker that premies had, but I think it was really more of a hippie symbol back then. Occasionally, I still see old VW's (vans and bugs) with those old stickers still in the windows. Pink triangles were used by the Nazis to identify homosexuals, in the same way that yellow stars were used to identify Jews. They had to sew them to their shirts and wear them all the time. And known homosexuals were exterminated in the same way the Jews were. Some gay and lesbian people have adopted the pink triangle as a symbol of pride. Can't say it's quite as "happy" a symbol as the rainbow is.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 22:50:07 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: JW
Subject: Re: Gimme a sign! (Re: Premie Rainbows)
Message:
We have a Rainbow Banner hanging from our Apartment building since we are a diverse group living here.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 08:56:25 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Everyone
Subject: this hell in paradise
Message:
Good morning all, I have just read a few posts this morning and seems like paradise is still putting us through the paces. I started to safe gaurd my messages by typing them in, highlighting them and doing an Edit/Copy. Then if the posting doesn't work you can start a new thread and Edit/Paste your message thus not wasting time and effort re-composing your original brilliant messages! <3 Robyn
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Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 23:46:43 (EST)
Poster: Petrou
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Funnythingonthewaytoforum
Message:
Is somebody censoring this discussion or are my messages simply disappearing?
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 00:53:32 (EST)
Poster: Steve A
Email:
To: Petrou
Subject: Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum
Message:
That one got through, fire away.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 03:09:16 (EST)
Poster: Petrou
Email:
To: Steve A
Subject: Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum
Message:
I lost a couple of messages. Anyway I tried to say that I use the word love without meaning a fanatical insane love but gratitude for experiencing the spiritual things I always read about. Also we are all divine so it doesn't surprise me that GMJ is divine and well ahead of most. As far as him being JC I never heard him say that and he was actually peeved in 1975 when they tried the Second Coming event which played on his second visit to Australia.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 03:11:00 (EST)
Poster: Petrou
Email:
To: Steve A
Subject: Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum
Message:
PS I have two children and I find it hard to get them off the Net so apologies for delays.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 04:34:22 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Petrou
Subject: He did say he is God! (Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum)
Message:
Sorry guys, I can't refrain from recalling one of my favorite quote .... He did state that kind of thing quite often, it is usually wiped off the videos. Lucky are those who are able to witness (and recall) him saying this: Excerpt from M’s discourse at Shri Sant Yogashram, New Delhi, India November 9, 1990 Published in : ‘Life Force’ Volume 7, Issue 2, April-June 1991 by : Divine United Organization Shri Sant Yogashram, Shahurpur, Mehrauli, New Delhi 110 030, India Just see, today this word 'guru' has become a ridiculous term, a sort of a joke and people do not know what is a 'guru'. When I fly a plane in India, I often listen to the radio in the cockpit. There are talks going on between various pilots in the vicinity. Somebody would address: ''Well Guru, how are you?" Because they do not know the true meaning and implications. They don't understand the glory of a guru and Master. Because they have forgotten altogether. They have made such pseudo-guru who have put the whole system to disrepute. For instance, in schools they don't know the correct meaning of a couplet like: The radiance radiated from my beloved is of suds an amazing hue ... They say, "oh yes, because Kabir saw a sort of redness..." But what sort of redness was it? Such so-called gurus have marred the reputation of this institution. It has been ruined. Actually the guru is such a personality about whom it is said: « I bow down to the lotusfeet of my Guru Maharaji, who is the ocean of mercy and is actually Hari (God) himself in human form. And whose words are like sunbeams to disperse the accumulated darkness of gross ignorance. » So Tulsidas says that he bows down to such a Guru Maharaji, the Master, who is really Hari (Supreme Power) in the form of man. So the main thing to understand here is that he bows down to the feet of that guru whose utterances, whose expressions are able to illuminate. And what is that which is illuminated by his words? It is the heart which is illuminated. His words are able to sever and dispel the spidery web of illusion, infatuation and ignorance. This I have seen myself and realized in my own heart. Yes, in my heart!
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 05:48:08 (EST)
Poster: Petrou
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: He did say he is God! (Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum)
Message:
I'm just wild about Hari and Hari's wild about me. We are all divine. It seems to be that all we have to do is deepen this realisation while maintaining a humble "heart". GMJ is certainly well ahead of a heck of a lot of others. Isn't the truth simple!
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 08:00:14 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Petrou
Subject: Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum
Message:
Petrou: Regarding: Anyway I tried to say that I use the word love without meaning a fanatical insane love but gratitude for experiencing the spiritual things I always read about. Also we are all divine so it doesn't surprise me that GMJ is divine and well ahead of most. As far as him being JC I never heard him say that and he was actually peeved in 1975 when they tried the Second Coming event which played on his second visit to Australia. Saying that we are all divine, which could (if you agreed with the concept) be true of everyone including Maharaji, is not the same as Maharaji saying he is the Supreme Being in human form, or "Hari." The implications of this are quite clear and specific, and do not conform to your "explanation." As for the "second coming" he did, indeed, begin to specifically deny this toward the end of the seventies precisely because it turned up the heat on him. If you read past posts of mine you will encounter my/our theory that MJ is fundamentally conservative and will not jeopardize his money machine for the sake of a wider following or by direct confrontation with prevailing religious institutions. The point is that this conservatism is in direct contrast to his early promises. -Scott
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 08:39:00 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Petrou
Subject: Re: He did say he is God! (Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum)
Message:
Petrou: Regarding: Isn't the truth simple! This is too easy. 1. I have seen no objective evidence tha t GMJ is any more "advanced" than the rest of us, and a good deal of evidence that points in the opposite direction. (The fact that he exhibits no capacity for "character," for instance.) 2. If you can adjust your sense of direction in such a way that you can accommodate logical inconsistencies, and have no problem referring to the result as "Truth," then indeed the "Truth" is simple. The truth seemed simple to "der Fuhrer's" followers as well. Regardless of what your faith leads you to believe, which is a private matter, you have a societal obligation to examine your beliefs along with the rest of us. What irks me is that you guys keep claiming an exemption from this obligation. That's hubris. -Scott -Scott
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 11:51:47 (EST)
Poster: Joy
Email: Bluebirdd@aol.com
To: Petrou
Subject: Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum
Message:
Petrou, nothing you say makes any sense, it just sounds like gobbledy-gook and guru-speak to me. Can you please pick out one sentence, just one, from Scott's post in this thread and respond to it intelligently?
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 12:01:40 (EST)
Poster: David
Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: He did say he is God! (Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum)
Message:
I'd say the TRUTH was that Maharaji is a very big hypocrit. Quite simply, he has never practised what he preaches. There are numerous examples of this which have been narrated already,
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 12:37:04 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: Joy
Subject: guru logic (Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum)
Message:
Joy: To be able to understand the premies who post here, you need a refresher course in guru logic. Here's lesson one: Everything the guru says is true. Everything the guru says is above judgement and analysis by us mere human beings. Don't think. Stay tuned for further lessons...
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 12:57:19 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: John K.
Subject: guru logic lesson 2 (Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum)
Message:
Joy: Lesson 2: When you argue absurd reasonings to people stating logic you will become a better devotee. Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 13:21:38 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: guru logic lesson 3 (Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum)
Message:
Lesson 3: If you can't argue absurd reasonings, just flame someones legitimate experience.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 13:22:21 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex
Email:
To: Scott T.
Subject: His cirrhosis is very advanced! (Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum)
Message:
I think that's the only advanced thing about him ....
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 17:11:48 (EST)
Poster: Eureka!!!
Email:
To: Mr Ex
Subject: Re: He did say he is God! (Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum)
Message:
Sorry guys, I can't refrain from recalling one of my favorite quote .... He did state that kind of thing quite often, it is usually wiped off the videos. Lucky are those who are able to witness (and recall) him saying this: Excerpt from M’s discourse at Shri Sant Yogashram, New Delhi, India November 9, 1990 Published in : ‘Life Force’ Volume 7, Issue 2, April-June 1991 by : Divine United Organization Shri Sant Yogashram, Shahurpur, Mehrauli, New Delhi 110 030, India Just see, today this word 'guru' has become a ridiculous term, a sort of a joke and people do not know what is a 'guru'. When I fly a plane in India, I often listen to the radio in the cockpit. There are talks going on between various pilots in the vicinity. Somebody would address: ''Well Guru, how are you?' Because they do not know the true meaning and implications. They don't understand the glory of a guru and Master. Because they have forgotten altogether. They have made such pseudo-guru who have put the whole system to disrepute. For instance, in schools they don't know the correct meaning of a couplet like: The radiance radiated from my beloved is of suds an amazing hue ... They say, 'oh yes, because Kabir saw a sort of redness...' But what sort of redness was it? Such so-called gurus have marred the reputation of this institution. It has been ruined. Actually the guru is such a personality about whom it is said: « I bow down to the lotusfeet of my Guru Maharaji, who is the ocean of mercy and is actually Hari (God) himself in human form. And whose words are like sunbeams to disperse the accumulated darkness of gross ignorance. » So Tulsidas says that he bows down to such a Guru Maharaji, the Master, who is really Hari (Supreme Power) in the form of man. So the main thing to understand here is that he bows down to the feet of that guru whose utterances, whose expressions are able to illuminate. And what is that which is illuminated by his words? It is the heart which is illuminated. His words are able to sever and dispel the spidery web of illusion, infatuation and ignorance. This I have seen myself and realized in my own heart. Yes, in my heart! Gee, maybe he is God in human form and all along we haven't had a clue what he was talking about so he stopped saying it because it was to difficult to reconcile the physical being with the concept of supreme being but to those who have realized it in their heart, it's obvious. Wouldn't that be a kicker...
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 18:35:06 (EST)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@ex-premie.org
To: VP
Subject: Re: guru logic lesson 3 (Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum)
Message:
When in doubt, refer to lesson 1.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 22:44:11 (EST)
Poster: jSCa
Email: aoa
To: Eureka!!!
Subject: Re: He did say he is God! (Re: Funnythingonthewaytoforum)
Message:
. . . Gee, maybe he is God in human form . . . If he was God I guess we'd be up shit creek! I mean -- even if he was God, we'd be really up shit's creek. We're better off that he isn't, is what I mean. :) -And On Anand Ji jSCa!
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Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 14:03:25 (EST)
Poster: VP to Robyn
Email:
To: Robyn
Subject: Sex and the Internet
Message:
Now that I have everyone's attention... Robyn, Tried to respond below, but this puppy's locked up. I'll stick with "Vic". Op who posts here is apparently a woman, so there goes that theory. I have never used my real name and that's why you have never seen it here. It wouldn't be far fetched for any anonymous person here (or any liars) to be any sex, though. I am kind of a sensitive guy (raised in the 70's, raised around premies, what can I tell you?) You called me Vic in one of your postings and I kind of like it. So, Vic it is. Tell your story anyway. I enjoy a good tribal storyteller. VP Oh, yeah...no hangovers here. We couldn't find any green, so we took Seymour's suggestion and had a couple o' Stouts.
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Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 15:44:41 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: VP to Robyn
Subject: Re: Sex and the Internet
Message:
Robyn - I'd like to hear your story too! If you don't mind telling it on the forum that is. Katie P.S. VP/Vic, you are getting TOO much like Brian ("sheesh" and "this puppy"?). Pretty soon you'll be putting little smiley faces on your posts all the time too :).
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Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 15:47:01 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: VP to Robyn
Subject: Re: Sex and the Internet
Message:
Vic, I like that better than VP, more personalble and Op is not initials or it would be OP. I take Op to be short for operator, like systems operator. What about bb? I noticed a Vic posting and became very confused now I know it is you. My story: In 1976, during the time I was a premie, I was pregnant with my first child and had many outrageous dreams. I always had very detailed dreams but both times I was pregnant they were even more intense. I lived with my baby's father, the premie who introduced me to M, in an apartment and subsequently 2 other apartments became inhabited by premie's. My neighbor (premie) was pregnant also and we became fast friends. She was due a month before I but went very late and I went early so we had our daughters 5 days apart. That was an aside, get use to it I do it all the time. She was in my dream, so the aside. In the dream I was in the delivery room and my friend was there with me. When I had the baby she was tiny but within moments she grew to be a child of about 9 years with straight black hair, just below her ears, parted on the side and blue eye shadow on. I asked my friend, not why she grew but why she had eye shadow on and she told me it was to cover up some goop that was there because of the birth. Now I wonder what was wrong with soap and water, anyway, since she was 9 I thought I'd ask her what she wanted her name to be. And can you guess, she answered Violet. I really felt I should name my child Violet if it was a girl but couldn't bring myself to do it and named her Jessica Elise O'keefe instead. That was a long time ago and hadn't taken on any importance for years to come. In 1990 while I was in college I started to work summers for the Army Corps of Engineers at their local dam projects and met a man who was to become one of my best friends. A unique individual whom we both felt had been around me for many past lives. Once while he was visiting and sitting on my deck he saw sundogs, do you know what they are? I had never see it before but learned about them in Weather and Climate. Of course I went out to see. There is the sun itself and a mirror image of the sun so it looks like 2 suns. There is a Paul Simon song and the name escapes me as I am not good with music details but the line goes. "Sundogs barking at the break of dawn, lightning pushing the edges of the thunder storm." Something close to that anyway so that line specifically reminds me of my friend and the rest of the song reminds me of him and the way he thinks. My daughter, Jessica, while at college, went to Kenya for 3 months and lived in a village in her own mud hut and taught art and math to the village children ages 7-9. While she was there, another friend of mine, Clo, who does channeling got a message for me to sit and be still and hum. Odd, she thought but told me. I do need to be still I am to caught up in running, and doing so I tried, thinking it would be ultra simple but to my amazement found I could not make myself hum. I finally hummed, that whole day, that song by Crash Test Dummys that is all humming I think. You know it goes, hum, hum, hum, hum, hum, hum, hum, hum, remember. That was a little joke. It is the little things that keep us going here in rural America! As it turned out Jessica told me that there was a day in Kenya that she couldn't get that song out of her head and hummed it all day long... the same day? I'd like to think so. While she was in Kenya she was hosted by one family with over 40 members as they have multiple wives and there was only one woman that she got to know beyond the surface level and you guessed it her name is Violet! She was in her early 20's with one child with her husband but in their culture if the husband has children with other woman out of wedlock then his first wife, Violet in this case, raises these children after a certain age 5 or 7, whatever. Violet had her own child and 3 or 4 of her husband's illegitamet children. He also had other wives with children of their own that they raised themselves. A husband who works away from home and gets paid real money doesn't have to through cultural pressure support his wife/wives and this one didn't so here was Violet trying to scrap out an existance for herself and these 4 children with no help from her husband and on his visits to the village repeatedly gave her std's. Still this woman had a spark and spirit within her and Jessica was attracted to it and they became good friends. When Jess wrote me about her I'm sure I told her about that dream. When Jessica came home she and another girl from her school made the trip together coming into NYC. This other girl's brother picked them up and I got her the next day in Conn. When I got there after getting lost of course and as usual, the geographer with no sence of direction, she was pretty ruff around the edges but told me right away about a very intense dream that felt to her to be significantly important but couldn't figure why. She dreamt she was getting a tatoo on her middle finger, I think, of the number 9. In the dream she questioned, why 9 why not 8 or 2 and the "dream" screamed "9". Jessica went to Africa and received college credits dependant on a paper, oral presentation and performance (as her major was performance art). She did a dance characterization of Violet to that song by Paul Simon from above. To much for simple coincedence. I asked my friend Clo about it all and she received a channel about it stating something about it all just illustrating the deep connection between she, myself and my friend who the song reminded me of. I hope you enjoyed my little tale. I am pleased with it as I thought I might have trouble making it all make sence. I hope you could follow it. As I said before it was just another illustration that there is more in this life than surface existance. Robyn
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Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 16:12:17 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: Sex and the Internet
Message:
Dear Robyn - I really liked your story (especially the dream part in the hospital). Won't comment any more on it right now. Just some information (since I've been hanging around the forum a long time). op is initials. It stands for old premie (her choice of pseudonym). op is someone who got knowledge in 1971 and got to hang out with Maharaji a lot in the early days of Divine Light Mission. bb = Bill Burke. Don't ask me if that's his real name or not! He also goes by Will, **, and some other pseudonyms. VP (Vic) = Virtual Premie. You can ask Vic the story about that one! Take care, Katie P.S. I knew what sundogs are but have never seen them.
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Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 17:02:20 (EST)
Poster: John K.
Email:
To: Robyn
Subject: I like this literary style! (Re: Sex and the Internet)
Message:
How refreshing! A story with no moral attached. BTW, what does a geographer actually do? Violet...wasn't she a Peanuts cartoon character?
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Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 21:11:29 (EST)
Poster: Steve A
Email: steve.allison@lion-nathan.com.au
To: VP to Robyn
Subject: Re: Sex and the Internet
Message:
Dear VP This is facinating, who could this mystrerious person be?. Vic,... could it be Victor or Victoria?. Is Op male or female?, does it really matter?, it's just great to hear so many wonderful and colourful personalities here. As for me there is no mystery, I think I am very definately, positively, maybe male..... at least I was the last time I checked.
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Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 21:31:09 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Steve A
Subject: Re: Sex and the Internet
Message:
Steve A. Victor/Victoria...I heard that somewhere before! I'm with you, though. Gender is a relative thing in the land of virtual premies. What is important is to attend the virtual darshan lines, meditate on the virtual word and devote to the virtual ex-lord. Make sure that you sing virtual arti! (I still think Brian should put this on site for those with the multi-media packages...or maybe "teach me virtual devotion") I have very good reasons for wanting to stay anon, (and they have nothing to do with being a coward) Virtual Sherlocks, I will not answer any more posts about my identity, no matter how intriguing...Talk to you later Steve,VP
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Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 21:54:33 (EST)
Poster: Steve A
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: Sex and the Internet
Message:
Sorry VP, I did not mean to insinuate you were a coward, far from it I respect your decision to remain anon. We all try to put images to people who post here and for the most part my image of you and people like Katie, Op, Brian etc. is one of respect and admiration for your strength and courage to tell others of your experience and your willingness to help the many who post here, including me.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 00:44:48 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Steve A
Subject: Misunderstanding (Re: Sex and the Internet)
Message:
Steve A., Sorry, I didn't mean to direct that comment to you. You didn't insinuate anything. Someone on here stated it down below and I have heard it on here before, too. (About people posting here anonymously being cowards.) That's why I brought it up. I am as curious about everyone here as anyone else is. This communication form is so devoid of human characteristics, so we all try to personalize it somehow. Thanks for the compliment and I have a lot of respect for you, too. Take care "down under" VP
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 01:10:45 (EST)
Poster: not telling
Email:
To: VP
Subject: 'Twas I who said 'coward' (Re: Sex and the Internet)
Message:
Steve A., Sorry, I didn't mean to direct that comment to you. You didn't insinuate anything. Someone on here stated it down below and I have heard it on here before, too. (About people posting here anonymously being cowards.) That's why I brought it up. I am as curious about everyone here as anyone else is. This communication form is so devoid of human characteristics, so we all try to personalize it somehow. Thanks for the compliment and I have a lot of respect for you, too. Take care 'down under' VP Maybe 'coward' isn't fair. Or maybe it is for some and not for others. Like Mr. Ex, for example. I can understand his not wanting to 'fess up and be singled out as the only active ex-instructor ex. Not yet anyway. Besides, he's still getting all sorts of good inside info. But, well, I just hate not knowing who's post I'm clicking beforehand or, even worse, whose it was after I've read it. Is all this anonymity really necessary? Who, by the way, posted all those kind of funny but consistentrly jumbled up 'replies' to my 'fox, grapes and snake' story? Was it Bill? Mili? Katie? Katie, is that you? Katie?
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 03:32:27 (EST)
Poster: Petrou
Email:
To: VP to Robyn
Subject: Re: Sex and the Internet
Message:
Intriguing topic.This was one of HAL"S big hangups in that great movie 2001! Sexless neutered argument:I can breath again.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 04:04:23 (EST)
Poster: reader
Email:
To: everyone
Subject: VP is really anon!! (Re: Sex and the Internet)
Message:
Sorry VP, I did not mean to insinuate you were a coward, far from it I respect your decision to remain anon. We all try to put images to people who post here and for the most part my image of you and people like Katie, Op, Brian etc. is one of respect and admiration for your strength and courage to tell others of your experience and your willingness to help the many who post here, including me. So now it is revealed! VP is actually anon!
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 08:46:02 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: reader
Subject: Re: VP is really anon!! (Re: Sex and the Internet)
Message:
To reader: Regarding: So now it is revealed! VP is actually anon! While you have apparently uncovered a profound truth I would like to point out the possibility that rather then being identical they may be enantiomorphs: one is the left hand version of the other. If you read their posts carefully you'll see this is true. -Scott & his sinister twin Ttocs
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 09:09:06 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: John K.
Subject: Re: I like this literary style! (Re: Sex and the Internet)
Message:
Good morning John K., Thanks for the postive feed back. Geographers can do many different things, City (town, whatever) Planners and Economic Developers are/can be geographers, Environmentalist can be geographers as well as many other scientists (Soils, Biologists etc.), I am a computer cartographer and teacher, in the business sector, of the same. Have you ever heard of GIS (geographic information systems) it's the latest and fasting growing field in Geography and Engineering. Maps in "layers" on a computer, tax parcel layer, water layer, streets layer, sewer line, gas lines, historical sites layers and on and on (not you And on Anda ji). Human Geographers study patterns in building styles. I remember studing about barn styles in school. Cultural Geography, there are many other geography fields but I can't think of them now. I think you may be right about Violet a secondary character though and I can't place her. I even remembered more details to the story last night, it just amazes me. I have told some other extraordinary things that I have experienced and haven't had anyone else say they have had similar experiences and I was thinking of starting a thread on it. I am very curious. Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 09:14:04 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Steve A
Subject: Re: Sex and the Internet
Message:
Steve A., It doesn't matter really but this type of communication is new to me and I'm finding that it makes a difference at some level to me. There was a story I read to my girls when they were small about a baby X who was raised without sexual labels or clothes, toys etc. I was very into that myself, my girls played with dolls and tonka trucks, match box cars etc. so I find my need/desire to know the sex of contributors here somewhat disapointing but there just the same. It all started with Mili. He stirs things up even when he isn't trying. Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 09:17:08 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Steve A
Subject: Re: Sex and the Internet
Message:
Vic, I don't think you believe I am pushing you to find out "who" you are. I am not and I enjoy communicating with you and others here regardless of idenities or personalities. Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 09:23:06 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: VP is really anon!! (Re: Sex and the Internet)
Message:
I live a to busy life and have trouble keeping things strainght from day to day. All this idenity discussion is going to cause my name to go on the fritz! The worst part is I started it all. Thus is the life of a middle child. Starting something and then sitting back and watching the repercussions. Hey Mili are you a middle child? Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 09:45:36 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Robyn
Subject: Re: Sex and the Internet and VP is Anon, Katie...or Brian? (Re: Sex and the Internet)
Message:
Robyn, You are right, you weren't pushing. Just letting everyone know. To the poster who said VP is anon, I think that Steve A was just abbreviating. Anon was a real bonified premie, I believe, and has major credibility even if he/she is non-violent!! Robyn,I enjoyed your story very much and also I enjoy talking to everyone here, too. Sheesh...Regards, VP
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 09:49:38 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: not telling (Jim)
Subject: Re: 'Twas I who said 'coward' (Re: Sex and the Internet)
Message:
Maybe 'coward' isn't fair. Or maybe it is for some and not for others. Like Mr. Ex, for example. I can understand his not wanting to 'fess up and be singled out as the only active ex-instructor ex. Not yet anyway. Besides, he's still getting all sorts of good inside info. But, well, I just hate not knowing who's post I'm clicking beforehand or, even worse, whose it was after I've read it. Is all this anonymity really necessary? Who, by the way, posted all those kind of funny but consistentrly jumbled up 'replies' to my 'fox, grapes and snake' story? Was it Bill? Mili? Katie? Katie, is that you? Katie? Hi Jim honey, No I didn't post all those posts. It looked like someone was taking your original post, randomizing it, and then adding in some words typical of the authors. (Some of them were better than others...). I would have guessed Bill except the person used capital letters (Smiley Face). I agree with you about certain people needing to be anonymous for good reasons (like Mr. Ex and VP and whoever else). I think that if they always use the same name and tell a little about themselves, you do get a sense of who they are and who you are talking to.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 09:51:41 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: VP is really anon!! (Re: Sex and the Internet)
Message:
To reader: Regarding: So now it is revealed! VP is actually anon! While you have apparently uncovered a profound truth I would like to point out the possibility that rather then being identical they may be enantiomorphs: one is the left hand version of the other. If you read their posts carefully you'll see this is true. -Scott & his sinister twin Ttocs Scott T. Let me guess...I am the sinister one? Oh, God! Now I have another complex to deal with. First I have no credibility and now I am sinister... Ha!ha! VP
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 10:12:33 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: VP
Subject: Re: Sex and the Internet and VP is Anon, Katie...or Brian? (Re: Sex and the Internet)
Message:
Vic, I knew anon was an abbreviation for anonymous but I am trying not to be a referee (Brian will your program include a spell checker? Just kidding). Someone got on me once for doing that. I am the middle child of a dysfunctional family and that was my job for many years and I guess it took. When my kids were little at Easter I even would count how many red, brown, etc. m&m's they each got. I never said I wasn't nerotic! Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 10:13:53 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: VP
Subject: Re: Sex and the Internet and VP is Anon, Katie...or Brian? (Re: Sex and the Internet)
Message:
VP: I know anon is a real person. We lived in the same building 23 years ago, attended satsang together, knew the same people, etc. My concern is that because the double helix can spiral, on rare occassions, in two different directions that you may be anon, but don't know it. Separated at birth, but together "virtually." I've another theory that the double helix can take the form of a pretzel, with mustard. -Scott
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 10:25:35 (EST)
Poster: VP
Email:
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: Sex and the Internet and VP is Anon, Katie...or Brian? (Re: Sex and the Internet)
Message:
Scott, I am a real person, too. 23 years ago I wasn't old enough to be your roommate, although I was going to Satsang. (Scary thought!) VP
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 12:24:44 (EST)
Poster: eb
Email:
To: not telling
Subject: Re: 'Twas I who said 'coward' (Re: Sex and the Internet)
Message:
I confess--I posted as D.H. Lawrence. But I wasn't really satisfied yesterday that I caught the style. Today it looks okay, sort of. eb (female)
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 12:58:19 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: eb
Subject: Re: 'Twas I who said 'coward' (Re: Sex and the Internet)
Message:
Thanks eb, Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:09:40 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email: petkat@mail.trib.net
To: eb
Subject: Re: 'Twas I who said 'coward' (Re: Sex and the Internet)
Message:
I confess--I posted as D.H. Lawrence. But I wasn't really satisfied yesterday that I caught the style. Today it looks okay, sort of. eb (female) eb - that's one of the parodies that I liked - except to truly mimic Lawrence, I thought it should be longer and more verbose (but how could you stand to write like that? I'm not a DH Lawrence fan, obviously).
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:25:10 (EST)
Poster: Robyn
Email: sundogs@hotmail.com
To: Katie
Subject: Re: 'Twas I who said 'coward' (Re: Sex and the Internet)
Message:
Katie, At first I didn't like all these gibberish writings but as I read them and got into the style I liked them a lot and thought it would be a fun writing exersice but I could't do it here. I'll have to find some time and lock myself in a closet with the light on. Robyn
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:28:18 (EST)
Poster: And On Anand Ji
Email: aoa
To: T. Tocs
Subject: Twinister Sin (was " VP is really anon!!") (Re: Sex and the Internet)
Message:
[--- snip ---] -Scott & his sinister twin Ttocs [--- snip ---] You can call my evil twin: ij dna na no dna (Hindi for DNA that argues with itself)
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:34:54 (EST)
Poster: Katie
Email:
To: And On Anand Ji
Subject: Re: Twinister Sin (was (Re: Sex and the Internet)
Message:
How about "NO DNA" for short? That would serve both to identify your evil twin and to make Jim mad.
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 16:30:32 (EST)
Poster: eb
Email:
To: Katie
Subject: Re: 'Twas I who said 'coward' (Re: Sex and the Internet)
Message:
Thanks Katie. I agree--it needed to be longer, but I couldn't go on with it. Haven't read DH in a long time, but I remember he always had the masculine/feminine thing happening where the female had to surrender to the male to achieve wholeness. Seemed a fitting author to parody how devotion was presented back in the days when I was attempting to practise. Warmest regards to everyone. eb
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Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 13:56:50 (EST)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: My reply to Les - #%*& page ate my post!
Message:
If it's safety in numbers you're looking for, you can rest assured that Maharaji's not the first trader in religion or mysticism. Mind you, for a larger net, why not consider all belief systems, especially the many ridiculous ones throughout history? Your unqualified belief that 'Knowledge' has been practised by all these miscellaneous groups is a quaint premieism. Yes, it's possible that some of the techniques were bandied about by more than one supposed 'teacher.' So? That doesn't make it universal, let alone true. Your own particular theology sounds like typical, wooden premiespeak. Statements like: 'The true master actually is the experience of oneness, and when his students listen with an open heart and mind, that experience is stimulated within them. With these three crucial ingredients present -- Knowledge, a true master, and an open student -- it is possible for a very powerful practice to be established.' sound not only outrageously wooden, they also don't make any sense. In the end, your image of sanctity, complete with video wet nurse, is a joke. A real, late twentieth-century version of some wacky sect.
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Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 22:22:08 (EST)
Poster: Scott T.
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: My reply to Les - #%*& page ate my post!
Message:
Jim: Regarding: If it's safety in numbers you're looking for, you can rest assured that Maharaji's not the first trader in religion or mysticism. Mind you, for a larger net, why not consider all belief systems, especially the many ridiculous ones throughout history? Don't stop with mother earth. What about the extraterrestrials? Don't they all practice Knowledge? I think they use it to navigate their starships. Ever heard of the Ashtar Command? Talk about a wacky cult. They believe that the planet is under the command of this guy named Ashtar, and there are people here who are actually ETs, but look and act just like people. In fact, they even thought they were people until some channeler told them otherwise. The communicate with the mother ship through a specially made quartz crystal that hangs around their neck. Heck, it's a really fun cult. The women in it are completely vulnerable. No resistance at all for a "Capitan" in the Command! (I hate to pull rank.) Scott (at least that's what my parents thought!)
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Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 03:49:14 (EST)
Poster: Spock(Petrou)
Email:
To: Scott T.
Subject: Re: My reply to Les - #%*& page ate my post!
Message:
Fascinating.
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