Ex-Premie.Org |
Forum II Archive # 10 | |
From: Mar 14, 1998 |
To: Mar 21, 1998 |
Page: 4 Of: 5 |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 20:41:38 (EST)
Poster: Aesop Email: To: Rick Subject: RE: Nu-Nu Premies Message: >dick wrote: A Sap, You wimpo. Where will you be tonight? Satsang? Listening to some boring blotto go on and on about this love, this life? I doubt it. Will you give satsang to fifty or more people, struggling to appear that you're having an experience; fabricating a house of cards about how this all works? I doubt that too. How about service on your two days off from work? Scraping old paint off a bathroom wall in an ashram? Uh, uhh, not A Sap. Where'll you be? A movie, good book, TV, computer? How about meditation? One hour minimum before work, one hour after nightly satsang, and sometimes a marathon on a weekend day (four or five hours). What is this Knowledge you have in this life? A fairy tale? Are you just magically in bliss because of all the grace? What about the devotion? How do you apply that? By fussing with ex-premies on a web site? I really doubt it, Sapface. I suspect you may be a fraud. All talk and no action. Labor of love? Hardly. Labor, yes. Love, barely. > > dick, My oh my, what's gotten into you boy? In answer to all your erratic questions: I'll continue to do what keeps the flame alive. I'll continue to accept the challenge of embracing the change that is fundamental to growth. I'll continue to try to live what I believe and believe what I live. (The above goals by the way dick are not for the faint of heart so I think the wimpo tag doesn't really apply.) As for all the old "stuff" you descibed that you obviously see as war wounds but I'm sure take some pride in recounting, I've been there, and I enjoyed myself immensely at the time. And I'll continue to devote of myself to what I can to help Maharaji in his work. Why, because it's so enjoyable... was, and I suspect will be, so long as the flame still burns. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 20:37:02 (EST)
Poster: Nigel Email: nigel@redcrow.demon.co.uk To: Jim Subject: Dowton probably didn't do it right Message: Couldn't do a reply to Jim's post below, so I'll try it as a new thread: Sociology is, IMHO, the weakest of the social sciences, and comprises methods of investigation that are frequently guaranteed to provide researchers with the answer they were looking for - or answer that their subjects were trying to project. If you make a special study of any group of people over a given period of time, and >they are aware you are making that study,< that knowledge of the ongoing investigation will tend to distort your findings. The ONLY way of carrying out objective long-term research into the benefits of practising Knowledge on reducing fear, alienation, aimlessness, confusion etc.) would comprise a 'double-blind' set-up using a matched control group of non-premies who were studied over the same time period and assessed on the same variables, ie., asked the same questions in interview or by questionnaire, or whatever. It would be crucial that (a) the researcher did NOT know which participants were premies and which were controls, and that (b) the participants didn't know that the research had anything to do with evaluating the practice of Knowledge. A pretty tall order, maybe, but unless this method was used (and I am sure it wouldn't have been), I don't think you can read too much into the results. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 10:38:52 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Nigel Subject: Re: Dowton probably didn't do it right Message: Nigel: I posted the response to this on Forum III. Can't seem to use html tags anymore here. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 20:15:13 (EST)
Poster: Aesop Email: To: gumby Subject: RE: Dreaming Message: >I think the reality here is not people questioning >your happiness, but questioning the legitamacy of >a man who is misleading, (and has mislead) many >good hearted brothers, and sisters. The man and the experience are inextricably linked. The lasting happiness brought confirms his legitimacy. > I believe these ideals are still very important to many > people. In fact, people are here because they do > believe in love, compassion, and truth. Come on gum, let's not paint your collective efforts with too white a brush. That's not why most post. Many are incensed and they want to get even. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 08:57:23 (EST)
Poster: Student Email: To: Aesop Subject: Re: RE: Dreaming Message: Regarding: The true fruit of the master is a heart that is full. It can only be tasted in silence when you go within. Thank you for sharing your definition of the master's fruit. Jesus told his disciples that they would know the Son of man by his fruit, not by his claims of miracles or his claims to be Jesus incarnate. A person who is not familiar with Maharaji told me yesterday that time (history) is the test of true "prophets." She believes that only a limited number of people have the wisdom to recognize a true "prophet" while he or she is alive. She does not claim to know a prophet now. For her, living an honorable, law-abiding life now is the way to know God. That is the way Jesus described for the masses to follow. He offered his disciples another way. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 17:52:21 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: Student Subject: Re: RE: Dreaming Message: Regarding: The true fruit of the master is a heart that is full. It can only be tasted in silence when you go within. Thank you for sharing your definition of the master's fruit. Jesus told his disciples that they would know the Son of man by his fruit, not by his claims of miracles or his claims to be Jesus incarnate. A person who is not familiar with Maharaji told me yesterday that time (history) is the test of true 'prophets.' She believes that only a limited number of people have the wisdom to recognize a true 'prophet' while he or she is alive. She does not claim to know a prophet now. For her, living an honorable, law-abiding life now is the way to know God. That is the way Jesus described for the masses to follow. He offered his disciples another way. What is your definition of prophet? Is the Big M a prophet? And what kind of Gnostic malarky are you spreading: "That is the way Jesus described for the masses to follow. He offered his disciples another way." Only the Gnostics claim that Jesus had a separate teachings for "the Few" and "the Many." Jesus reminded people that they were to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength." How can one love God is such a manner if one surrenders all devotion to "the master?" Also, according to scripture, Jesus never said anything about people claiming to be Jesus incarnate, but he did warn about false prophets. Study up next time! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 19:51:21 (EST)
Poster: Aesop Email: To: John K. Subject: RE: More Concepts! Message: (Like others I can't respond so I'll start a new thread) John K. Re: Your concern that premies have misconceptions about ex's. Now John, help understand what concepts I should be fostering about you. You're the one who yesterday advocated violence against Maharaji, likening him to a coon getting in your attic and destroying your roof, right? Now you tell me you want to give back to the world something that you're good at. So go on, please... I would love you to clear up my concept of you as being a violent and vengeful man. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 11:07:41 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: To: Aesop Subject: racoon does not = guru (Re: RE: More Concepts!) Message: Huh?! Aesop, get a grip on yourself. When did I compare the guru to the racoon in my attic? I'll get the quote...here it is...btw, this was in response to someone who claimed to be so non-violent that they could not hurt a flea: "Yeah, I basically agree with everything you said. (although I am not so radically non-violent as you. A racoon got into our attic about ten years ago and was determined to destroy the roof. I wanted so much to blow it to smithereens.)" You are very paranoid if you think I was comparing the guru to the racoon and that I now want to blow the guru to smithereens! Actually, I think this guru is about the boringest subject in the world! That's why I like to add little details about my real life, like the fact that a racoon was destroying my attic and I wanted to blow it up! How can you read that and think that I want to blow up the guru!?!? My dear, you've been involved in a cult for too long. Either that or you think I was telling one of your fables. There really was no moral to my story about the racoon in my attic other than I am not as non-violent a person as the person who wrote the original post in the thread. BTW, the fact is when I was face to face with a squirrel in my attic, I chickened out and just tried to shoo it away, instead of going for the kill. Now why don't you respond to what I actually am saying in my posts instead of transferring my violent feelings for pesky rodents to your guru? John Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 15:15:44 (EST)
Poster: Aesop Email: To: John K. Subject: Re: racoon does not = guru (Re: RE: More Concepts!) Message: Nice back-peddling work John. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 15:39:46 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Aesop Subject: Re: racoon does not = guru (Re: RE: More Concepts!) Message: Nice back-peddling work John. Dear Aesop I read John's orginal posting and I never got the idea that he was comparing Maharaji to the raccoon. He was just answering Anon's thoughts about non-violence. I think that he meant what he says he meant above, and isn't back-pedaling (as you say). Did you re-read the original post by any chance? By the way, as far as I know, NONE of the ex-premies on here have ever expressed any desire to harm Guru Maharaji physically. Implying that someone like John might be doing that when they're not is a crock. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 19:31:46 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Katie Subject: Re: racoon does not = guru (Re: RE: More Concepts!) Message: Nice back-peddling work John. Dear Aesop I read John's orginal posting and I never got the idea that he was comparing Maharaji to the raccoon. He was just answering Anon's thoughts about non-violence. I think that he meant what he says he meant above, and isn't back-pedaling (as you say). Did you re-read the original post by any chance? By the way, as far as I know, NONE of the ex-premies on here have ever expressed any desire to harm Guru Maharaji physically. Implying that someone like John might be doing that when they're not is a crock. Katie, While no ex has ever really threatened Maharaji here, to be fair, one or two have said that they'd like to 'kick his ass' or something like that. No such comment ever rose above hyperbole such that any fair reader would take them as a real threat. Of course you're right about John here. Aesop's just blowing wind. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 19:50:45 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Jim Subject: Re: racoon does not = guru (Re: RE: More Concepts!) Message: OK, point taken (although I don't think that "kick his ass" or whatever is a physical threat. That's what George Bush said about Geraldine Ferraro, remember?). Have you seen Forum III yet BTW? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 20:34:02 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Katie Subject: Re: racoon does not = guru (Re: RE: More Concepts!) Message: OK, point taken (although I don't think that 'kick his ass' or whatever is a physical threat. That's what George Bush said about Geraldine Ferraro, remember?). Have you seen Forum III yet BTW? No. Where is it? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 23:03:03 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Jim Subject: FORUM III (Re: RE: More Concepts!) Message: Forum III is at: http://www.ex-premie.org/forum3/forum3.cgi Brian's own creation (paradise not involved). He's still working out the bugs, but it should be great when it's done. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 00:27:33 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Katie Subject: Re: FORUM III (Re: RE: More Concepts!) Message: Forum III is at: http://www.ex-premie.org/forum3/forum3.cgi Brian's own creation (paradise not involved). He's still working out the bugs, but it should be great when it's done. I just checked in at Forum III. Great. Now when does this tent fold? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 00:59:02 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@Mail.trib.net To: Jim Subject: Re: FORUM III (Re: RE: More Concepts!) Message: I just checked in at Forum III. Great. Now when does this tent fold? After we get word from the most holy Shri Webmaster Brian Ji, Wizard of Ex. (Probably when he gets done debugging the forum and figures out how to archive it.) P.S. FYI Brian hardly ever reads this forum but is on Forum III quite a bit. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 10:45:01 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Katie or Help! Subject: Can't get FORUM III (Re: RE: More Concepts!) Message: I tried the address and it said file not found. Could that be becasue Brian is working on it right now? Thanks, Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 13:08:56 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Robyn Subject: Re: Can't get FORUM III (Re: RE: More Concepts!) Message: Sorry my fault, I can't spell! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 15:29:56 (EST)
Poster: Ms. K Email: To: Katie Subject: Re: FORUM III link test (Re: RE: More Concepts!) Message: This should be the link to forum III, if I'm doing it right: Forum III Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 17:55:06 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Ms. K Subject: Re: FORUM III link test (Re: RE: More Concepts!) Message: This should be the link to forum III, if I'm doing it right: Forum III Who are you? And what have you done with Katie? The real Katie can't make links, you imposter! [snicker] Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 18:31:55 (EST)
Poster: Ms.K Email: To: Brian Subject: Re: FORUM III link test (Re: RE: More Concepts!) Message: The REAL Brian isn't supposed to read Forum II! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Thurs, Mar 19, 1998 at 19:28:48 (EST)
Poster: Aesop Email: To: Katie Subject: Re: racoon does not = guru (Re: RE: More Concepts!) Message: Nice back-peddling work John. Dear Aesop I read John's orginal posting and I never got the idea that he was comparing Maharaji to the raccoon. He was just answering Anon's thoughts about non-violence. I think that he meant what he says he meant above, and isn't back-pedaling (as you say). Did you re-read the original post by any chance? By the way, as far as I know, NONE of the ex-premies on here have ever expressed any desire to harm Guru Maharaji physically. Implying that someone like John might be doing that when they're not is a crock. Sure, I'll assume the best. He was making an oblique reference to the raccon as an example of how his thoughts have on occasion been of a violent nature. However you surely must be able to see how one could draw a different conclusion at first glance. You gave him the benefit of the doubt, I didn't. So, perception has a bearing on how we interpret reality, once again. As an aside, Jim, why don't you take two breaths before you lash out at someone else on this forum, e.g., blowing hot air. It's macho-cool bud but uncalled for. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 19:47:51 (EST)
Poster: Aesop Email: To: Everyone Subject: Re; NU NU Premies Message: Come on dick, stop making it out to be so hard. For most who post, it was a labor of love... at least once upon a time it was. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 20:15:28 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com To: Aesop Subject: Re: Re; NU NU Premies Message: A Sap, You wimpo. Where will you be tonight? Satsang? Listening to some boring blotto go on and on about this love, this life? I doubt it. Will you give satsang to fifty or more people, struggling to appear that you're having an experience; fabricating a house of cards about how this all works? I doubt that too. How about service on your two days off from work? Scraping old paint off a bathroom wall in an ashram? Uh, uhh, not A Sap. Where'll you be? A movie, good book, TV, computer? How about meditation? One hour minimum before work, one hour after nightly satsang, and sometimes a marathon on a weekend day (four or five hours). What is this Knowledge you have in this life? A fairy tale? Are you just magically in bliss because of all the grace? What about the devotion? How do you apply that? By fussing with ex-premies on a web site? I really doubt it, Sapface. I suspect you may be a fraud. All talk and no action. Labor of love? Hardly. Labor, yes. Love, barely. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 18:29:52 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: stalking@freewheeling.com To: Everyone Subject: Netscape: Completely off topic Message: Hi: I've a question that is completely off topic. I just switched to Netscape Communicator 4.02 for IE 3.02 and am reveling in the escape from big brother Bill. However, I've run into the same old problem that I've always had with Netscape. It always want to load some obscure plug in that takes up space on my hard drive, and that I'm not sure I'll use more than once. Why does IE never bother me with that distraction. It's a big nuisance, and I'm thinking about dumping Navigator (again) and switching back. I don't want to spend half my time loading plug ins for _____ sake! What's wrong with these guys? Frustrated. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 00:14:07 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: To: Scott T. Subject: Re: Netscape: Completely off topic Message: Hi Scott, If you go under: "Edit" -> "Preferences" -> "Navigator" -> "Applications" you will get a list of helper apps and plugins associated with different MIME types, you should have the ability to remove certain plug-ins from here. Hope that helps. I still owe you I email. Haven't forgot, just swamped right now. GAGBWY -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 17:20:17 (EST)
Poster: To Student from Vic Email: To: Everyone Subject: I'm with Jim, but cannot respond Message: I also cannot post a response for some reason unknown to this computer novice. Student, I read your longer post about fury. I just don't believe the idea that M is using fury to teach anything. (The only thing one could teach with fury is how it is destructive...) An example: It would be abusive, destructive, and devastating to my children if I were to use my fury (in my position of authority over them) to try to "teach them something" or "crush their egos". It would break their spirits in the process! How far is this from the premies who take the brunt of what MJ has been known to dish out with his fury? They are like little children in their innocence and love for this man. His fury unleashed at them serves no purpose. If premies can't even feel this supposed difference between teaching and the crushing of their hearts, what does it teach? I believe it is just a misuse and abuse of power by a lonely, isolated, bored and spoiled person. My heart goes out to anyone who is being abused by someone in a position of authority over them and certainly this applies to some of the PAM. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 16:38:29 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Everyone Subject: Student's laughable proposition Message: I, too, am unable to post a reply. But I had to answer student's ridiculous distinction between good fury (when experiencing Knowledge) and bad (when not). Student wrote: 'When a person is conscious, that is experiencing Knowledge and nurturing the heart of a child, then fury can be an effective tool in teaching others or balancing yourself. When a person is not conscious and is nowhere near the experience of Knowledge, fury can be dangerous, even lethal. Fury is hatred in motion. In the former situation, fury can be used carefully to eliminate ego but preserve the spirit. In the latter situation, fury can crush everything, including spirit. It is painful to have either crushed, ego or spirit. I wonder how many of us can tell the difference through the pain.' Remember Mahatma Fakiranand? He was the 'great saint' who tried to kill the guy who threw the cream pie in Maharaji's face in 1973. Offered to show him the light technique, turned off the lights and smashed his skull in with a hammer. Can anyone argue that Mahatma Ji was not 'on the word' when he did this great deed for his Lord and Master? Of course he was. That was his trip, wasn't it? Complete immersion in the 'Holy Name.' Then, when he gets to play Arjuna or whatever, all in the context of TALKING about the meditation even, there's no way he wasn't 'experiencing Knowledge.' So, Student, was that 'good fury'? I'm sure it taught Mr. Halley (the victim) a lesson or two about throwing cream pies at cult leaders. Probably crushed his ego, no? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 17:35:43 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: Jim Subject: Fury and Pies (Re: Student's laughable proposition) Message: I, too, am unable to post a reply. So, Student, was that 'good fury'? I'm sure it taught Mr. Halley (the victim) a lesson or two about throwing cream pies at cult leaders. Recovering from the tequila? Are you dreaming about the misdirected attack on Halley again? How about the Fury in Poco? Now for some news from Cream Pie Central. CD Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 17:46:49 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: CD Subject: Re: Fury and Pies (Re: Student's laughable proposition) Message: I, too, am unable to post a reply. So, Student, was that 'good fury'? I'm sure it taught Mr. Halley (the victim) a lesson or two about throwing cream pies at cult leaders. Recovering from the tequila? Are you dreaming about the misdirected attack on Halley again? How about the Fury in Poco? Now for some news from Cream Pie Central. CD Chris, I am absolutely not recovere from the tequila yet. In fact, I brought back some of the finest. And, yes, that the whole Halley thing's a big joke. One of the lighter moments in Maharaji's past. Wonder why it never made its way into the walk-down-memory-lane video. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 18:14:41 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: Fury and Pies (Re: Student's laughable proposition) Message: In fact, I brought back some of the finest. And, yes, that the whole Halley thing's a big joke. One of the lighter moments in Maharaji's past. Which brand? You know very well that I don't think that the attack on Haley was a joke. It was real and very wrong. And it is very old information that has been rehashed here many times. You seem to be stuck at about 20 years ago. Sorry to be a pill on your return from a nice trip. Maybe this year will turn out to be better though. There is always hope. I continue to be optimistic. When are you going to send me that old Anand band album? CD Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 19:10:44 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: CD Subject: Re: Fury and Pies (Re: Student's laughable proposition) Message: In fact, I brought back some of the finest. And, yes, that the whole Halley thing's a big joke. One of the lighter moments in Maharaji's past. Which brand? You know very well that I don't think that the attack on Haley was a joke. It was real and very wrong. And it is very old information that has been rehashed here many times. You seem to be stuck at about 20 years ago. Sorry to be a pill on your return from a nice trip. Maybe this year will turn out to be better though. There is always hope. I continue to be optimistic. When are you going to send me that old Anand band album? CD Herradura. The one with the horseshoe on it. The gold bottle. And Chamucos. Yes, Fakiranand smote Halley a long time ago. Problem is, I've got this here Lord of the Universe video where Maharaji told everyone at the press conference that 'we're looking into it.' No statute of limitations on attempt murder. Chris, I will indeed send you a copy of the album the moment you admit that Maharaji used to claim he was God and now does not. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 16:18:25 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: megumby@hotmail.com To: Aesop Subject: Dreaming... Message: Hi Aesop, I can't seem to respond to your thread so I'm posting it here in a new thread. You wrote: Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 16:16:32 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: Nu-Nu Premies Message: What is it with the premies nowadays, anyway? It's the "life of Riley"; no satsang, a little service, a little meditation, movies, books, culture, etc. etc. It's like the life of a premie is basically unchanged, except for a little mini-meditation once a day, an occassional program, and that's about it. No wonder we're ex-premies. If we were premies now, there'd really be no reason to drop out... drop out from what? Fifteen minutes meditation a day, and a program once or twice a year? Get real. From what I've gathered, most of the ex's contributing to this site were die-hard premies, they had five commandments to follow and all day, every day, was toil and homage to the master. Many were in the ashram, although I was not. For those ex's, life was basically over, forever. You'd signed your life away: No money, no sex, no movies or freedom or anything. I can tell you one thing none of us ex's ever would've had the time, luxury or freedom to do... participate on this forum. Think of all the chit-chat and missed opportunities for satsang. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 15:59:31 (EST)
Poster: Seymour Email: seymour_t@rocketmail.com To: Katie and everyone Subject: Anger and the Borg Message: Wotcha Katie Thanks for your response, I really do not get the time to take part in this as much as I’d like to. Also it all moves so fast - resets more than once a week - I can’t keep up. Regarding your thoughts on anger and families I wondered if you have read the two books by John Cleese (Monty Python) and his psychiatrist Robin Skinner? I think they contain some insight into life’s confusions and , if you take them with a pinch of salt rather that treat them as ‘gospel’ they can be very enjoyable. I have been reading a few of the recent postings and think that Aesop has made a few pertinent statements- including "the study of cults is not one whose basis is rational thought and objective open-mindedness…’ in fact it is just the opposite. Rational thought is ‘of the mind’ and the experience of knowledge is ‘beyond the mind’ I have to agree with Scott_T, though, when he asserts that V.P. has a valuable contribution to make to this discussion I mean, after all, did any of us ex-premies learn anything from practising knowledge other than that it was a road to nowhere. We certainly have no more authority to speak about devotion, gurus, meditation, cults etc. than anyone else. Due to our disappointment, feelings of betrayal and anger we are certainly less objective. Also I have never read any of Katie’s posts suggesting that those who are enjoying knowledge should stop practising - nor would I do such a thing. For some of the time I was happy as a premie - it kept me off the streets and out of trouble. However, as to helping me to flourish as a human being, I have my doubts. Trying to tell someone who is ‘blissed out’ that they are on the wrong road is a waste of time, and who am I to tell anyone else what the right road is ? This forum allows those who are aspiring towards being premies to hear another side to the story and to give support to those who have tried it and want to leave( not an easy thing) without feeling they are turning off the road to Heaven onto the road to Ruin. Anyhow - all the best to everyone and thanks for replying to my ‘couch potato’ post. - You probably haven’t missed much Katie, although I used to enjoy Star Trek a lot before I had to start working for a living and now do not have the time to be a ‘trekkie’. ( I hear that many of the writers are Bhuddists) Adios, Seymour p.s. I seem to remember someone mentioning some sort of chat room thing - if you could send me the password I would be glad to try and join in one weekend. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 15:48:53 (EST)
Poster: CD Email: To: Everyone Subject: new Long Beach 97 video Message: I just got a copy of the Long Beach 1997 Highlights video. If anyone wants to see what M actually said then take a look. The first song on the video "Rhythm of Life" was written and sung by Wadi. Wadi, Daya and Marolyn sing Happy Birthday. There are quite a few other songs including one by the great Japanese singer and a nice song with a little slide guitar titled Feel Like a King. Regards, CD Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 19:18:21 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: CD Subject: Re: new Long Beach 97 video Message: CD, Quit watchin' those videos and send me that E-mail! VP Yes, that was really me (anonymously, of course.) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 14:52:31 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: heller@bc1.com To: Everyone Subject: Dowton couldn't care less about M Message: Hi Guys, Back from a too-short vacation on the Yucatan. Beautiful place. I'm glad when I walked through the ruins of Tulum, Coba and Chicha Nitza (sp??) I wasn't preoccupied with the thought of Mayan 'Perfect Masters.' I just talked to the New Yorker. The article is no longer slated for any particular issue. It's not dead (yet) but.... well, what can you say? I was catching up on some of the dialogue I missed and noticed Mili's post about the endorsement Jim Dowton, an American sociologist, had given Maharaji back in the seventies: There is a book written by a Professor of Sociology ('Sacred Journeys' by Prof. Jim Downton) that analyses a group of premies in a five year period and he comes to the conclusion that 'There is little doubt in my mind that the lives of these premies have taken a positive turn since 1971. After five years, these premies seem less guilty, afraid, alienated, aimless, confused, introverted, frantic and worried; less repressed in communicating their weaknesses and emotions; less reliant on drugs; less counter to our society; more accepting of themselves and others (including non-premies); more peaceful, calm, confident, outgoing and positive; more willing to encounter and learn from their negative experiences, more appreciative of common, everyday events and more at one with others, nature, and life in general.' About half a year ago I tracked down Professor Dowton at some midwestern university (whose name I've forgotten). I left him a few messages and finally talked with him at home one weekend afternoon. I told him about my interest and views of Maharaji and asked him if he'd stayed informed. That he hasn't was not, in and of itself, so surprising. What was kind of odd, however, was his complete disinterest in this group he'd once written about. Dowton was polite enough. We talked for about half an hour, as I recall. He just doesn't give a damn about Maharaji and was not the least bit interested in how the man and his followers had evolved. At one point, I told him that his book was being used even now as an endorsement by premies. He didn't care. He wasn't the least surprised to hear that Maharaji has obscured his old claims to divinity (all the while flashing a little leg at those who remembered him in his prime). In that respect, he agreed that Maharaji was probably just another sixties fraud. Still, he feels no obligation to renew or publically cancel his old support of this cult. Frankly, I wasn't impressed. The main point, though, is that Dowton's comments about the peaceful herd of grazing premies are irrelvant to the current picture. The commune's been closed a long time now and the fact that our cult once got us off the street and off drugs matters not. I'd like to see someone write a book TODAY about the benefits of following a middle-aged sixties meglomaniac. But it sure won't be Dowtun. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 13:14:54 (EST)
Poster: Aesop Email: To: Everyone Subject: The dream of the heart Message: Once upon a time we were younger. We dreamed the idealistic dreams born in innocence. We believed we could affect the world for the better. And we knew what the world needed - love, compassion, truth, self-knowledge. We held out the belief that there was a power of goodness in the universe, and that power could in its compassion provide us with a tangible way to get to know it. A way that wasn't riddled with "should's" and "should not's", and fire and brimstone, but a path where every step was adorned with the depth of understanding that seeing provided, instead of blind faith in something that cannot be seen. We searched for someone who could make our dreams come true, for we believed there was someone out there who knew the way. Someone we could look up to, follow and believe in. Someone who embodied the eternal goodness. And our search led us to a man called Maharaji. Time passed. We became full-fledged adults. We matured and grew into positions of responsibility. Some of us came to realize that our dream was the stuff of children but we continued to believe because it was a beautiful dream. As the realities of adulthood encroached on the dream we lived it less and less. This was good because it helped us to become successful members of our world. And for some of us the dream began to fade. One day these same people looked at the dream and marveled at how they could have been so foolish to believe in such a dream - and the man who had promised to guide them. "Oh there were so many good reasons why they shouldn't have followed him", they said. "Were we so stupid, or was he so deceitful as to have fooled us into believing such a dream? Ahahh, it was he who tricked us." They asked for their youth back, but alas time can offer no such deals. Meanwhile there were still others who continued to believe in the dream, and continued to believe in the one who had promised so much. And when asked, they would say how happy they were. "How could you be happy?", the others admonished. "It cannot be real happiness!" But to those who still dreamed the dream, their ideals - love, compassion, truth, and self-knowledge - were still very important. And they loved the one who continued to guide them on their journey of discovery for as they said, "He has shown us how to make our deepest dream reality. And he has taken us outside the realm of reality and unreality to a place where there is true magic". This talk of magic was of course unacceptable to those who had stopped believing. For them there was profound resentment. "Let us tell the world of the imposter!" And they set about on a crusade to "tell the truth". Not unlike children, most of us want to believe in things that will make us happy. Some of those things are able to provide moments of pleasure, some never pay off for us, and even fewer bring lasting fulfillment. The flame to know the true promise of life still burns in those who dream with the heart of a child. In the end, all our dreams will fade when our bodies wither and die. Then only will we ourselves know for sure which dreams were true and which were illusion. Moral: Know your heart's longing beyond a shadow of a doubt, and follow its call beyond all reproach. At your last breath it will be too late to change the course of your life, and all arguments will be empty. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 13:48:06 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com To: Aesop Subject: Re: The dream of the heart Message: |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 15:23:22 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: heller@bc1.com To: Rick Subject: Re: The dream of the heart Message: Aesop, Your point seems to be: you can't know what's true or false while you're alive so you might as well believe whatever you want to. Am I missing something? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 15:24:18 (EST)
Poster: Aesop Email: To: Rick Subject: Re: The dream of the heart Message: Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 15:26:09 (EST)
Poster: Aesop Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: The dream of the heart Message: Aesop, Your point seems to be: you can't know what's true or false while you're alive so you might as well believe whatever you want to. Am I missing something? Jim Yes my friend, I'd say you are. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 15:28:21 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Aesop Subject: Re: The dream of the heart Message: Aesop, Your point seems to be: you can't know what's true or false while you're alive so you might as well believe whatever you want to. Am I missing something? Jim Yes my friend, I'd say you are. What? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 15:34:36 (EST)
Poster: Aesop Email: To: Jim Subject: Re: The dream of the heart Message: Answer to the last question you asked bud. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 15:35:49 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: To: Aesop Subject: More Concepts! (Re: The dream of the heart) Message: Dearest Aesop: Ah, another misconception: if someone stops believing in Mr. Prem Rawat then that someone must not believe in magic. Why do think that Aesop? Why do think that just because I found Mr. Rawat rather lacking in leadership and lordship qualities, that I have totally rejected magic? I am well aware that my life is one big mystery. Do you really think I am lost in a hot and dry desert screaming "there is no magic, it's all lies!" All that's really changed is that I don't believe the guru has the one simple answer to that mystery. I don't believe anymore that following my breath is the answer to all of life's problems or situations. I don't believe that 'devotion' to the guru, whatever that is, is the path for me. So does that mean I have stopped believing in everything? No, it does not. Here is my latest favorite saying: The purpose of life is to find your gift; the meaning of life is to give it back. Find out what you are good at, then share that with the world. The guru never encouraged me to develop myself or to develop my talents. When I moved into his ashram in fact he never recognized me in any way. He never called me by my name, I have no idea if he even knew I existed. I found it extremely unfulfilling to be dedicating my life to someone who did not care about me personally. Love your guru, Aesop, enjoy yourself. Just because I found trying to love the guru to be ultimately a dead end does not mean you can't love him. And let's get rid of these 'concepts' about ex's! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 15:49:30 (EST)
Poster: Rick Email: rtaraday@hotmail.com To: Aesop Subject: Re: The dream of the heart Message: First off I can't take credit for giving you a more accurate name. I believe Scott T. had the ingenuity in that department. Actually, A Sap, Rick isn't short for Richard. Normally I'd have no reluctance to mention what it is short for. However, considering you don't use your real name and don't do much here but stroke your big spiritual ego, I don't feel comfortable telling you what it stands for. Your question reveals alot. You don't have to choose between the brain of an adult or the heart of a child. I suppose you think you must choose and so you ditched the brain. How innocent are you anyway? Are you really, really innocent? Like guilless, super-guilless? Wow! I suppose if you talk in parables and old-fashioned dialect, and tell neat little stories you feel all flowery and soft inside. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 16:07:32 (EST)
Poster: Jim Email: To: Aesop Subject: Re: The dream of the heart Message: Aesop, I'm confused. I asked you if your entire story didn't amount to an assertion that one should just believe what one wants because we can't know the truth anyways. You said that wasn't it. Again, I ask why. Really, it doesn't seem like you're saying anything but. Would you please be so kind and advise me as to what exactly I've left out? Thanks, Jim Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 10:02:01 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: Everyone Subject: Green beer-off forum subject Message: Happy Saint Patrick's day to everyone here-Irish or not- believer in Saints, gurus, or not! Enjoy some green beer! Fondly, VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 11:53:00 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: VP Subject: Re: Green beer-off forum subject Message: Thanks VP (virtual premie) I read some archives. I've been thinking of you as Vic and Mili as a woman. It's like reading a good book and creating your own images. In some ways it's great and others seems like something is missing. What is the deal with 3/17 anyway. My oldest daughter is 1/2 Irish so I always did something for her but never really got the jist. Enjoy the day! Any excuse to have a good day is worthwhile. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 14:40:15 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: Robyn Subject: Re: Green beer-off forum subject Message: Robyn, I agree, any excuse to have a good day is worthwhile! I only have a tiny drop of Irish blood, so I don't even know the deal with Saint Pat's except it's fun to dress in green and drink a glass of green beer (as long as you don't look at it-it looks horrible!) I have pictures in my head of everyone, too. It's funny how we do that. I have seen real photos of some of the folks on this site. Mili has a web site and you can see his picture, I can't remember his site address, but it's in here somewhere. Enjoy your day, too. VP (Vic) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 15:37:32 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: VP Subject: Re: Green beer-off forum subject Message: VP, Poor Mili if you saw his picture and thought he was a woman to! No offence Mili, just playing. I hesitate to even mention this but all this offending and garding it off is reminisent of political correctness. I am a sensitive person and have even worked at toning down my nurturing nature as not to attract the overly needy but I think political correctness delves into the absurd. Robyn PS. No green beer for me, not my drug of choice! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 16:10:24 (EST)
Poster: O'Seymour Email: The Emerald Isle@Blarney To: The little Green Men Subject: Re: Green beer-off forum subject Message: Bejabers, beghorra, Shillaylies, Father Ted ( if you have not yet seen it in America - you are in for a real treat) Banshees,the Crack, the Commitments (Roddy Doyle - one of the best), the Pogues, Sinead O'Connor, Brendan Behan, James Joyce, George Bernard Shaw, Beckett, Flann Obrian.......... Please add your own. And what's all this about green beer? If anyone has had less than ten pints of the blackest Guiness then St.Patrick will not be pleased and you will never get to Heaven. ( He drove the snakes out of Eire don't y'know) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 16:41:03 (EST)
Poster: O'Vic Email: To: O'Seymour Subject: Re: Green beer-off forum subject Message: O'Seymour, In the States, if you don't wear green on St. Patrick's day, you risk getting pinched. Bars, taverns and the like here serve green beer today. (Just put food coloring into the beer. It looks terrible, but tastes the same.) I never heard it connected to heaven, but then again, I'm not very Irish. I remember the snakes now! Thanks. VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 09:41:02 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: VP Subject: off the subject to VP (Re: Green beer-off forum subject) Message: Good morning VP, Hung over, green in the face? Last night while I was home, not drinking green beer and not at my usual Tues. night spot, my 2nd job, I got to thinking why did I think you were a man? I realized that I think of everyone using intitials as men. I don't know the significance of that but it makes me feel sexist. I think I'll apply for a grant and do a study to keep me going for the next year. Anyway I have read some posts to CD where he was refered to by his real name but I can't remember the same with you. If you are a woman and VP are you initials I went off, in my mind, that your name might be Violet which holds a TON of meaning to me. Now I'm curious. You don't have to tell me your name, unless it is (Vic) as you put at the end of a post. But if you are Violet or want to hear the story I'd love to tell it. I think I was a tribal story teller in a past life. It all ties in with my choice of sundogs for my e-mail also. The significance of the whole thing does, in a small way relate to the forum topics in that the huge ball of coincednece involved just leads me to once again see this life as more than a surface ride. Robyn I realize that my name can be male or female also, I am a woman but think that comes through in my postings. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 08:01:10 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: Quickie Reset Message: Paradise completely screwed up the forum index with cross-posts and duplicate posts everywhere. So I did a reset before the problem got to where I couldn't fix it on the weekend when I do an archive. I'll try to run a quick archive and get it online. Wish me luck... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 08:30:33 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Brian Subject: Re: Quickie Reset Message: Well, that was easy enough. I was afraid of the mess I would inherit if I waited longer. I put the mini-archive here. It's not linked to from the site archive page yet, since it's only a partial and I'll add the rest this weekend. Vistited link expiration how-to's: Netscape: Click on Options on your top Menu Select General Preferences Select Appearance Click on Expire Now to expire your links Internet Explorer: Click on View on your top Menu Select Options Select Navigation Click on Clear History to expire your links Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 08:38:18 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Brian Subject: Re: Quickie Reset Message: Hi Brian, I got an error message when I clicked on here in your post. Maybe I'm trying to soon, I don't know. Also, a question: the problems that caused you to do the mini archive, could that be the cause of my having trouble (slower than if I took a message to England myself]yesterday afternoon? It may have been a busy time but I've never seen it so slow. Just curious. I am more interested in seeing the mini archive as things are moving well this am. Thanks for all your hard work and dedication. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 09:50:02 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Robyn Subject: Re: Quickie Reset Message: Hi Robyn - I can't get that link to work either, I think Brian probably went to work, so it won't be fixed for a while. Also, I think (although I don't know for sure), that Paradise -the hosts of this forum- had a major breakdown yesterday. This probably caused the slowness that you mentioned - plus a lot of people (including me) couldn't access this forum at all. Take care, Katie P.S. I hope Brian's OK by the way! I see he's still working on Forum III... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 11:49:33 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Katie Subject: to Katie (Re: Quickie Reset) Message: Katie, Thanks for the info. I even e-mailed Brian so I'd be sure he'd get the message as soon as possible. I haven't understood the work he does for this site. Wethere it was his paid job or if he was doing it as a freebe (service!) or some combination of the 2. I am becoming addicted to all of this. To get my "fix" I went into the archives and back to January because VP mentioned that was where he posted the story about the person close to him who committed suicide. I was interested but don't really even have the time I spend here but since I could't be here I did it. It took much time and I think I did it the longest way possible. I saved the zip files from January (there were 2) then in explorer I clicked on the files to engage winzip and then went back into Netscape to see them. I thought I'd just look for VP's posting but got caught up reading the posts until I realized I'd be there doing that for a very long time so I searched for VP until I found it. I was glad to take the time and the bit I did read gave me some background on some of you but hope I don't feel the need to do that to often. I have been thinking of e-mailing you because I don't know if it appropriate to talk to you about your work here. I am a geographer and so am interested in what you do. Let me know if that would be alright with you. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 12:28:12 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: Darn Hooves (Re: Quickie Reset) Message: I fixed the URL in the message regarding the mini-archive. Here it is again though. I suppose I could have actually clicked on the link to check that I had it right... but that's so much work. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 12:34:20 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Robyn Subject: Re: Quickie Reset Message: the problems that caused you to do the mini archive, could that be the cause of my having trouble (slower than if I took a message to England myself) yesterday afternoon? I didn't try the forum yesterday afternoon, so I don't know. Probably, though. Anyway, the goofed it up enough that all the links came up unvisited again. Of course now with this reset, if you clear your links you'll find that on Forum III too. [sigh] That reminds me why I snuck home... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 13:40:16 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Robyn Subject: Re: to Katie (Re: Quickie Reset) Message: Dear Robyn - As you've probably figured out by now, Brian volunteers his time as the webmaster of this site. If anyone contributes money to the site, it goes for disk space on a server and so forth. I'm not very good at running the UNZIP program. My husband had to help me the first time and neither one of us knew what we were doing. What you did sounds like what I did, and I don't know if there's a better way to do it. Feel free to e-mail me any time regarding my day job...or anything else. Take care, Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 20:44:35 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Robyn Subject: Archive ZIP files (Re: Quickie Reset) Message: I saved the zip files from January (there were 2) then in explorer I clicked on the files to engage winzip and then went back into Netscape to see them. This is probably the best way to do it, IMHO. I only made them available as HTML files after people expressed unhappiness at not being able to read them online right after a reset. If you look at how much time you spent reading them, and the fact that they are now on your computer to refer back to, you can see the advantage (although it does involve unzipping them first). I kinda like having copies of them all on my puter. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 10:09:58 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Brian Subject: Re: Archive ZIP files (Re: Quickie Reset) Message: Brian, Thanks, it was nice to look at them and get more of a feel for all of you. My problelm is I don't have a puter at home so I am doing this from work. I hate that my job hasn't kept me busy for months now when I used to be busy every moment but now at least I have something to do that is not mindless. I am now waiting for a computer to come along through a friend that is a computer analyst and runs into available puters all the time. Then I'll have to work at controlling this addiction I am aquiring. Thanks again, Robyn PS. Katie tells me you do all this yourself and she helps you with writing some and I don't know how I could ever help you but if you have a need please ask for my help. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 04:35:39 (EST)
Poster: David Email: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk To: Everyone Subject: This forum has gone mad Message: There's a post from Katie which when you read it is actually a post from Aesop to John K. This post is repeated several times throughout the forum. Paradise seems to be finally cracking up. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 04:46:17 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex Email: To: David Subject: cause we don't meditate enough! (Re: This forum has gone mad) Message: Or some trolls messing around? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 07:48:00 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: David Subject: Re: This forum has gone mad Message: There's a post from Katie which when you read it is actually a post from Aesop to John K. This post is repeated several times throughout the forum. Paradise seems to be finally cracking up. That's what happens when you go down for 'mainainance as they do so often. I'll try to fix some of this when I run the archive for this mess. The problem with the threading should be corrected by the archiver. Don't know about the multiple post problem, though. I'm sorry, but I have to laugh. This is too funny... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 07:49:35 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Mr Ex Subject: Re: cause we don't meditate enough! (Re: This forum has gone mad) Message: Naw, we're in this fix cause we meditated too much :) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Wed, Mar 18, 1998 at 03:25:35 (EST)
Poster: Mr Ex Email: To: David Subject: This forum is in his mind! (Re: This forum has gone mad) Message: Too much mind here I would say:-)) and bad vibes ......... Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 09:42:59 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Everyone Subject: Institutionalization-org. post Message: I would like to take the statement you made toward the end of your posting and go one step further. : 'I see how when we get too involved with ANY religion or goup we lose ourselves and our freedom. Why are we so vulnerable to bonding to ideas and beliefs and dogma's and virtually any group that tells us in an authoritarian way what to do? ' I believe this statement goes beyond spiritual experiences into any (big generalization with many exceptions I'm sure) institution. Many years ago I worked at a home/'school' for retardad women in PA. The school was founded by Martha Lloyd who lived with the women in a large home and with the retarded residence kept up the house and grounds including an apple orchard. They worked together to do shopping and cooking. A wonderful concept but after years of existance and probably after Martha Lloyd had died or turned over operations things began to change and the place became less and less like home and more and more like an assembly line operation. When I started there when there was time I would play shutes and ladders or color with residents but then a rule came down that the residents could only practice age appropriate activities. Absurd. This is an isolated example but another is my present full time job. A small firm with grandious expectations and a feeling of excellence and free spiritedness when I started here and only 4 short years later, and due to many factors from bad management to mental illness, the whole thing turned sour and what remains is a shell of the original 'mission' into which comment, honesty, and change are not welcome. This is by no means a scientific study just my response to my life's experiences. Hope this helps! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 06:36:45 (EST)
Poster: Petrou Email: To: Everyone Subject: Slander Message: Apologies for dropping out a few days ago "Hal" had a virus. Lets not degenerate into slander it gets nowhere and is so common. GMJ reminds me of a Good Hitler! He is a powerful person and always reminded me of an individuals potential to be strong. Where's all the real premies? I'm stuck in the backwoods and would like to talk to believers on the Net. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 07:27:03 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Petrou Subject: Re: Slander Message: He is a powerful person and always reminded me of an individuals potential to be strong. Where have you ever seen him display any power other than that he exercises over devotees? He boasts to them about his abilities, yet has accomplished nothing in life on his own. When he wants something he doesn't create it or go get it. He just demands it from people who are in awe of his "power". Where's all the real premies? I'm stuck in the backwoods and would like to talk to believers on the Net. All premies are stuck in the backwoods as far as being empowered to talk to each other on the Net. The powerful man that you so respect has expressed yet another desire. This time that premies not discuss Knowledge or His Holiness on the Internet. It's yet another area where he exercises power by protecting the weary and the weak from their own minds. Check out www.premie.org and look real hard for any mention of the powerful little Lord. Good luck. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 04:57:10 (EST)
Poster: chr Email: To: Everyone Subject: who is gmj? Message: I would like some feedback-especially from those who have spent some time around M.I mentioned in an earlier post that I had spent some time around M-backstage,security at airports and plane,residences and once as a driver.I did not have a personal connection with M as such-he wouldnt have said more than 5 words to me.This didnt worry me at the time.What did was the contrast of experience between these times and programs.At the programs it was all love and bliss etc-these other times had a dark,almost sinister quality to them.There was a powerful, but unpleasant feeling about M.I remember pushing aside thoughts that he reminded me of films I'd seen of Adolph Hitler(naturally at the time I rationalised it all as my own mind,projection,or whatever-anything but M).There was definitely something spiritually dark in M.JW said he had had a similiar experience. I'd be interested to hear of others. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 04:57:20 (EST)
Poster: chr Email: To: Everyone Subject: who is gmj? Message: I would like some feedback-especially from those who have spent some time around M.I mentioned in an earlier post that I had spent some time around M-backstage,security at airports and plane,residences and once as a driver.I did not have a personal connection with M as such-he wouldnt have said more than 5 words to me.This didnt worry me at the time.What did was the contrast of experience between these times and programs.At the programs it was all love and bliss etc-these other times had a dark,almost sinister quality to them.There was a powerful, but unpleasant feeling about M.I remember pushing aside thoughts that he reminded me of films I'd seen of Adolph Hitler(naturally at the time I rationalised it all as my own mind,projection,or whatever-anything but M).There was definitely something spiritually dark in M.JW said he had had a similiar experience. I'd be interested to hear of others. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 05:25:45 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: chr Subject: Re: who is gmj? Message: I would like some feedback-especially from those who have spent some time around M.I mentioned in an earlier post that I had spent some time around M-backstage,security at airports and plane,residences and once as a driver.I did not have a personal connection with M as such-he wouldnt have said more than 5 words to me.This didnt worry me at the time.What did was the contrast of experience between these times and programs.At the programs it was all love and bliss etc-these other times had a dark,almost sinister quality to them.There was a powerful, but unpleasant feeling about M.I remember pushing aside thoughts that he reminded me of films I'd seen of Adolph Hitler(naturally at the time I rationalised it all as my own mind,projection,or whatever-anything but M).There was definitely something spiritually dark in M.JW said he had had a similiar experience. I'd be interested to hear of others. Maybe the 'dark' that you saw was his tan, Indiany skin color? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 05:50:05 (EST)
Poster: chr Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: who is gmj? Message: I would like some feedback-especially from those who have spent some time around M.I mentioned in an earlier post that I had spent some time around M-backstage,security at airports and plane,residences and once as a driver.I did not have a personal connection with M as such-he wouldnt have said more than 5 words to me.This didnt worry me at the time.What did was the contrast of experience between these times and programs.At the programs it was all love and bliss etc-these other times had a dark,almost sinister quality to them.There was a powerful, but unpleasant feeling about M.I remember pushing aside thoughts that he reminded me of films I'd seen of Adolph Hitler(naturally at the time I rationalised it all as my own mind,projection,or whatever-anything but M).There was definitely something spiritually dark in M.JW said he had had a similiar experience. I'd be interested to hear of others. Maybe the 'dark' that you saw was his tan, Indiany skin color? Certainly he enjoyed tanning himself in Australia.Unfortunately I also saw him in winter a few times when the tan wasnt so great. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 00:20:39 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: Start Thread Form Message: I don't know if it's just me or not, but I'm having trouble reaching the server. This seems to happen every Sunday night for some reason. Since the start thread form is on the site server, you can use this teeny little form in the meantime. Good luck reading it. Did I mention that I hate Paradise? Today, I mean? Click here to start a new thread. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 15, 1998 at 19:09:30 (EST)
Poster: Mouse Murderer Email: To: Everyone Subject: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ? Message: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ? In my forties I find myself more of a pacifist than ever. I am repelled by violence. (I even hesitate to set a mouse trap). I am tortured by a strong sense of justice which gives me little time for bullies or obvious hypocrites and gets me into some trouble. (I am learning to back off) I have many friends who are premies and many who are more or less ex’s I suppose, but who don’t feel the need to talk about it further. Whilst I know that MJ is entitled to do as he wishes, I made the judgment (over a long period of time) that the harm that people appeared to be reaping as a result (directly and indirectly) of his teachings could be outweighing the benefits he supposedly brings to humanity. This judgment was extremely hard to make as I was hugely committed to seeing the bright side of Maharaji and Knowledge. I honestly believe it is right that I and others should be able to express ourselves openly in a forum such as this where anyone may come and go as they please. Intolerance this is not. Some say that this site persecutes premies through the spreading of malicious rumours. What makes these rumours malicious? in themselves they are just reports from people about Maharaji that may or may not be true. They are in effect a challenge to Maharaji (or premies) to prove that they are untrue. What has become clear to me is (not withstanding the conspicuous absence of any official denial of these reports) that the resounding corroborating reports of many individuals leaves the distinct impression that the ‘rumours’ are true. All those who try and distract with their protestations only serve to warn level-headed or informed folk of the potential embarrassment that can be earned from earnestly backing an obviously losing horse. Whilst I agree that the rather obvious way in which some ex-premies seek to lure premies into conversation on the Forum (to tempt them to come out with something really stupid in public) could be construed as mild persecution , I think it is worth reminding oneself that debate, however vituperative the exchanges therein, is merely debate. This is distinctly not really, a particularly bad case of persecution. I don’t see why people shouldn’t hear reports that their Guru is a drinker of brandies, admirer of ladies, a smoker who prefers this or that brand, an evil-tempered bully or even a murderous child-molester for that matter. Why not? Let each make their own mind up, and if the reports are confronting their beliefs about Maharaji, they could always have the integrity to find out for themselves if there is any truth there or if there is anything to do about it. One of the things that puts me off is that I perceive MJ to be using fear and intimidating speech to get the results he requires. He also occasionally puts people down in such an insensitive way that my faith in him as the ‘personification of love’ (my saviour etc.)has taken a severe blow. Most of the time he seems such a sweet, nice humble guy but then he launches into tirades which leave one in no doubt as to his ultra-low opinion of mankind (and me). (Although my opinion of Mankind is also kind of low I detect an obsessive and unnecessarily negative tone in Maharaji’s talks). I became increasingly suspicious that there was actually an unhealthier side to the experience (which is supposed to be one of harmony and bliss) I have seen nothing to persuade me otherwise so far. Everything adds up to Maharaji being a complex phenomena , wherein many have found fulfilment but which many say has been a costly sidetrack in their lives. Is anyone right or wrong? All will surely have their say one way or another. Maharaji does not want to advertise himself on the Net or TV, preferring to attract people to more private events where he is more in control and less disturbedby the evil world out there. Of course those who do not respect his wishes to not be publicly discussed, chat away ad infinitum on the Net ; the universal repository of malicious rumours, conspiratory theories and the like. Maharaji used to say that his Knowledge was for everyone, then he thoughtfully added that it wasn't. Well, if it isn’t for everyone then I’m worried. ( I think he plays on peoples religious fears by saying stuff like that. ie. people think “hey, wait a minute...even Jesus said ‘many come but few are chosen’, so I’d better not blow it now or I’ll miss out on a lifetimes opportunity”) I believe and aspire to a kinder revelation which rings true for all humanity, or at least to all who are sincere. It has been really hard for me to reject any and all forms of intimidation that pose as wisdom. From the fearful parts of the Bible that I read as a child, to the scary warnings and heavy authoritarianism (that I was on the receiving end of as a young aspirant and premie) I now promise myself only to be motivated by words of wisdom which are backed up with loving actions. In the end I believe one has to judge people by their actions. That is the safest way to proceed in life. (BTW anyone who tells you they don’t judge is a liar IMHO) As a premie I disregarded MJ’s detrimental effects on myself and others, naively following the much trumpeted notion that he was trustworthy as a man simply because of the Knowledge he revealed.(which seemed dazzlingly marvellous at first) My feeling now is that MJ definitely made some mistakes which cost me pretty dearly. My choice in the matter of my commitment was reduced virtually nullified by the overriding persuasiveness of his demands of me as a devotee, particularly as regards becoming an Ashram Premie. My revised feelings about being his pupil are the natural consequence of the pain I suffered whilst being one. I have no desire to persecute those who want to follow him but I also have no qualms if what I say makes people think twice before committing themselves to him. Even he says it is not something to take lightly, so if people learn to be wary from my experiences, so be it. I have every right to publicise my experiences and conclusions thereof, as does anyone who cares to do the same. Only good can come of it. Since when did anyone saying how they honestly feel do any harm? My statements on this site are all meant sincerely. I don’t even mind hot-tempered dialogue. However at the end of the day I can see that this website is fundamentally a manifestation of anger.The anger that people, such as myself, have felt as a result of concluding that they were, in varying degrees, misled by Maharaji. Maybe some don’t feel Maharaji is to blame and consider that they were lured into bad situations by premies. I prefer not to apportion blame but to merely discuss,frankly, the things things I have been through. It is healing. I don’t require Maharaji’s head on a platter, I don’t want to see him unhappy or out of work (as it were). My life now is good and I don’t particularly feel to gloat over the downfall of others. I suppose the thing that I would really welcome is some public admission from Maharaji that there are people out there who genuinely feel that they got a pretty raw deal and that he is sorry if anything he said freaked anybody out! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 05:23:55 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Mouse Murderer Subject: Re: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ? Message: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ? In my forties I find myself more of a pacifist than ever. I am repelled by violence. (I even hesitate to set a mouse trap). I am tortured by a strong sense of justice which gives me little time for bullies or obvious hypocrites and gets me into some trouble. (I am learning to back off) I have many friends who are premies and many who are more or less ex’s I suppose, but who don’t feel the need to talk about it further. Whilst I know that MJ is entitled to do as he wishes, I made the judgment (over a long period of time) that the harm that people appeared to be reaping as a result (directly and indirectly) of his teachings could be outweighing the benefits he supposedly brings to humanity. This judgment was extremely hard to make as I was hugely committed to seeing the bright side of Maharaji and Knowledge. I honestly believe it is right that I and others should be able to express ourselves openly in a forum such as this where anyone may come and go as they please. Intolerance this is not. Some say that this site persecutes premies through the spreading of malicious rumours. What makes these rumours malicious? in themselves they are just reports from people about Maharaji that may or may not be true. They are in effect a challenge to Maharaji (or premies) to prove that they are untrue. What has become clear to me is (not withstanding the conspicuous absence of any official denial of these reports) that the resounding corroborating reports of many individuals leaves the distinct impression that the ‘rumours’ are true. All those who try and distract with their protestations only serve to warn level-headed or informed folk of the potential embarrassment that can be earned from earnestly backing an obviously losing horse. Whilst I agree that the rather obvious way in which some ex-premies seek to lure premies into conversation on the Forum (to tempt them to come out with something really stupid in public) could be construed as mild persecution , I think it is worth reminding oneself that debate, however vituperative the exchanges therein, is merely debate. This is distinctly not really, a particularly bad case of persecution. I don’t see why people shouldn’t hear reports that their Guru is a drinker of brandies, admirer of ladies, a smoker who prefers this or that brand, an evil-tempered bully or even a murderous child-molester for that matter. Why not? Let each make their own mind up, and if the reports are confronting their beliefs about Maharaji, they could always have the integrity to find out for themselves if there is any truth there or if there is anything to do about it. One of the things that puts me off is that I perceive MJ to be using fear and intimidating speech to get the results he requires. He also occasionally puts people down in such an insensitive way that my faith in him as the ‘personification of love’ (my saviour etc.)has taken a severe blow. Most of the time he seems such a sweet, nice humble guy but then he launches into tirades which leave one in no doubt as to his ultra-low opinion of mankind (and me). (Although my opinion of Mankind is also kind of low I detect an obsessive and unnecessarily negative tone in Maharaji’s talks). I became increasingly suspicious that there was actually an unhealthier side to the experience (which is supposed to be one of harmony and bliss) I have seen nothing to persuade me otherwise so far. Everything adds up to Maharaji being a complex phenomena , wherein many have found fulfilment but which many say has been a costly sidetrack in their lives. Is anyone right or wrong? All will surely have their say one way or another. Maharaji does not want to advertise himself on the Net or TV, preferring to attract people to more private events where he is more in control and less disturbedby the evil world out there. Of course those who do not respect his wishes to not be publicly discussed, chat away ad infinitum on the Net ; the universal repository of malicious rumours, conspiratory theories and the like. Maharaji used to say that his Knowledge was for everyone, then he thoughtfully added that it wasn't. Well, if it isn’t for everyone then I’m worried. ( I think he plays on peoples religious fears by saying stuff like that. ie. people think “hey, wait a minute...even Jesus said ‘many come but few are chosen’, so I’d better not blow it now or I’ll miss out on a lifetimes opportunity”) I believe and aspire to a kinder revelation which rings true for all humanity, or at least to all who are sincere. It has been really hard for me to reject any and all forms of intimidation that pose as wisdom. From the fearful parts of the Bible that I read as a child, to the scary warnings and heavy authoritarianism (that I was on the receiving end of as a young aspirant and premie) I now promise myself only to be motivated by words of wisdom which are backed up with loving actions. In the end I believe one has to judge people by their actions. That is the safest way to proceed in life. (BTW anyone who tells you they don’t judge is a liar IMHO) As a premie I disregarded MJ’s detrimental effects on myself and others, naively following the much trumpeted notion that he was trustworthy as a man simply because of the Knowledge he revealed.(which seemed dazzlingly marvellous at first) My feeling now is that MJ definitely made some mistakes which cost me pretty dearly. My choice in the matter of my commitment was reduced virtually nullified by the overriding persuasiveness of his demands of me as a devotee, particularly as regards becoming an Ashram Premie. My revised feelings about being his pupil are the natural consequence of the pain I suffered whilst being one. I have no desire to persecute those who want to follow him but I also have no qualms if what I say makes people think twice before committing themselves to him. Even he says it is not something to take lightly, so if people learn to be wary from my experiences, so be it. I have every right to publicise my experiences and conclusions thereof, as does anyone who cares to do the same. Only good can come of it. Since when did anyone saying how they honestly feel do any harm? My statements on this site are all meant sincerely. I don’t even mind hot-tempered dialogue. However at the end of the day I can see that this website is fundamentally a manifestation of anger.The anger that people, such as myself, have felt as a result of concluding that they were, in varying degrees, misled by Maharaji. Maybe some don’t feel Maharaji is to blame and consider that they were lured into bad situations by premies. I prefer not to apportion blame but to merely discuss,frankly, the things things I have been through. It is healing. I don’t require Maharaji’s head on a platter, I don’t want to see him unhappy or out of work (as it were). My life now is good and I don’t particularly feel to gloat over the downfall of others. I suppose the thing that I would really welcome is some public admission from Maharaji that there are people out there who genuinely feel that they got a pretty raw deal and that he is sorry if anything he said freaked anybody out! Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ? Sure it is. You're trying to depict him as some kind of a monster and are 'supporting it' by all kinds of wild rumors and insinuations. It's called slander and defamation in legalese. In my forties I find myself more of a pacifist than ever. I am repelled by violence. (I even hesitate to set a mouse trap). I am tortured by a strong sense of justice which gives me little time for bullies or obvious hypocrites and gets me into some trouble. (I am learning to back off) I have many friends who are premies and many who are more or less ex’s I suppose, but who don’t feel the need to talk about it further. Whilst I know that MJ is entitled to do as he wishes, I made the judgment (over a long period of time) that the harm that people appeared to be reaping as a result (directly and indirectly) of his teachings could be outweighing the benefits he supposedly brings to humanity. This judgment was extremely hard to make as I was hugely committed to seeing the bright side of Maharaji and Knowledge. OK. At least you are admitting that this is your judgement. You didn't actually do some research on it - put a questionnaire together, interview people in a representative sample, etc. There is a book written by a Professor of Sociology ('Sacred Journeys' by Prof. Jim Downton) that analyses a group of premies in a five year period and he comes to the conclusion that 'There is little doubt in my mind that the lives of these premies have taken a positive turn since 1971. After five years, these premies seem less guilty, afraid, alienated, aimless, confused, introverted, frantic and worried; less repressed in communicating their weaknesses and emotions; less reliant on drugs; less counter to our society; more accepting of themselves and others (including non-premies); more peaceful, calm, confident, outgoing and positive; more willing to encounter and learn from their negative experiences, more appreciative of common, everyday events and more at one with others, nature, and life in general.' I honestly believe it is right that I and others should be able to express ourselves openly in a forum such as this where anyone may come and go as they please. Intolerance this is not. A liitle way down you contradict this by saying that anyone who defends Maharaji here is stupid for even attempting it... That ain't what being tolerant is all about, sonny. Some say that this site persecutes premies through the spreading of malicious rumours. What makes these rumours malicious? in themselves they are just reports from people about Maharaji that may or may not be true. They are in effect a challenge to Maharaji (or premies) to prove that they are untrue. What has become clear to me is (not withstanding the conspicuous absence of any official denial of these reports) that the resounding corroborating reports of many individuals leaves the distinct impression that the ‘rumours’ are true. All those who try and distract with their protestations only serve to warn level-headed or informed folk of the potential embarrassment that can be earned from earnestly backing an obviously losing horse. Or could it be that those rumors are so off the wall that no one in their right mind wants to spend precious time investigating them? Not one of these rumors has been corroborated by solid proof - meaning a sworn statement by a non-anonymous living individual. It's all just wishful thinking by perverts. Have you ever gone out of your way to verify these rumors? Whilst I agree that the rather obvious way in which some ex-premies seek to lure premies into conversation on the Forum (to tempt them to come out with something really stupid in public) could be construed as mild persecution , I think it is worth reminding oneself that debate, however vituperative the exchanges therein, is merely debate. This is distinctly not really, a particularly bad case of persecution. I don’t see why people shouldn’t hear reports that their Guru is a drinker of brandies, admirer of ladies, a smoker who prefers this or that brand, an evil-tempered bully or even a murderous child-molester for that matter. Why not? Let each make their own mind up, and if the reports are confronting their beliefs about Maharaji, they could always have the integrity to find out for themselves if there is any truth there or if there is anything to do about it. At first, you were talking about 'rumors'. Now, all of a sudden, it's 'reports'. Pretty slick. One of the things that puts me off is that I perceive MJ to be using fear and intimidating speech to get the results he requires. He also occasionally puts people down in such an insensitive way that my faith in him as the ‘personification of love’ (my saviour etc.)has taken a severe blow. Most of the time he seems such a sweet, nice humble guy but then he launches into tirades which leave one in no doubt as to his ultra-low opinion of mankind (and me). (Although my opinion of Mankind is also kind of low I detect an obsessive and unnecessarily negative tone in Maharaji’s talks). I became increasingly suspicious that there was actually an unhealthier side to the experience (which is supposed to be one of harmony and bliss) I have seen nothing to persuade me otherwise so far. Everything adds up to Maharaji being a complex phenomena , wherein many have found fulfilment but which many say has been a costly sidetrack in their lives. Well you've got some weird theory there. It would have more credibility if you backed it up with some exact statements by Maharaji, though. This way it's just your subjective interpretation. Is anyone right or wrong? All will surely have their say one way or another. Maharaji does not want to advertise himself on the Net or TV, preferring to attract people to more private events where he is more in control and less disturbed by the evil world out there. Or, could it be that he just likes to have personal contact with people? Of course those who do not respect his wishes to not be publicly discussed, chat away ad infinitum on the Net ; the universal repository of malicious rumours, conspiratory theories and the like. You've got a point there! Maharaji used to say that his Knowledge was for everyone, then he thoughtfully added that it wasn't. Well, if it isn’t for everyone then I’m worried. ( I think he plays on peoples religious fears by saying stuff like that. ie. people think “hey, wait a minute...even Jesus said ‘many come but few are chosen’, so I’d better not blow it now or I’ll miss out on a lifetimes opportunity”) The way I see it, Knowledge is for everyone, but not everyone is for the Knowledge. In any case, you are the one who asked for it - it wasn't forced down your throat. I believe and aspire to a kinder revelation which rings true for all humanity, or at least to all who are sincere. It has been really hard for me to reject any and all forms of intimidation that pose as wisdom. From the fearful parts of the Bible that I read as a child, to the scary warnings and heavy authoritarianism (that I was on the receiving end of as a young aspirant and premie) I now promise myself only to be motivated by words of wisdom which are backed up with loving actions. There are tons and tons of words of wisdom all over the place. But none of these can carry you in your particular situation. You have to use your own head. How about being motivated by yourself? Grow up. In the end I believe one has to judge people by their actions. That is the safest way to proceed in life. (BTW anyone who tells you they don’t judge is a liar IMHO) How about that thing in the Bible, 'Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.' Or, 'Why do you see a mote in your brother's eye ...' Nah, forget it. That's impossible to live up to. As a premie I disregarded MJ’s detrimental effects on myself and others, naively following the much trumpeted notion that he was trustworthy as a man simply because of the Knowledge he revealed.(which seemed dazzlingly marvellous at first) My feeling now is that MJ definitely made some mistakes which cost me pretty dearly. My choice in the matter of my commitment was reduced virtually nullified by the overriding persuasiveness of his demands of me as a devotee, particularly as regards becoming an Ashram Premie. You are being childish again. You should take some responsibility. It was your decision to enrol in the ashram, just as any monk decides himself whether or not he will take monastery vows and follow up on them. My revised feelings about being his pupil are the natural consequence of the pain I suffered whilst being one. I have no desire to persecute those who want to follow him but I also have no qualms if what I say makes people think twice before committing themselves to him. Even he says it is not something to take lightly, so if people learn to be wary from my experiences, so be it. So how does that tie in with the 'murderer and child molester' bit above? Are seriously saying that Maharaji is a murderer and child molester? Did he murder you and then molest you, or was it the other way around? I have every right to publicise my experiences and conclusions thereof, as does anyone who cares to do the same. Only good can come of it. Well, I hate to contradict you, but my experiences and conclusions are totally different from yours. Since when did anyone saying how they honestly feel do any harm? My statements on this site are all meant sincerely. I don’t even mind hot-tempered dialogue. However at the end of the day I can see that this website is fundamentally a manifestation of anger. The anger that people, such as myself, have felt as a result of concluding that they were, in varying degrees, misled by Maharaji. Or could it be that you misunderstood his advice a little bit? Didn't bother to find out what he actually meant, but just went along for the ride? Maybe some don’t feel Maharaji is to blame and consider that they were lured into bad situations by premies. I prefer not to apportion blame but to merely discuss,frankly, the things things I have been through. It is healing. I don’t require Maharaji’s head on a platter, I don’t want to see him unhappy or out of work (as it were). My life now is good and I don’t particularly feel to gloat over the downfall of others. I suppose the thing that I would really welcome is some public admission from Maharaji that there are people out there who genuinely feel that they got a pretty raw deal and that he is sorry if anything he said freaked anybody out! I never got the impression that he was saying anything to freak someone out. He always states the simplest facts of life - like for instance, 'No one of us is walking out of this world alive!' It may be blunt, but at least it's honest. Regards. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 09:03:41 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mouse Murderer Subject: Re: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ? Message: Dear Mouse, Good post. I agree but just want to add one comment. The last statement, and you probably already realise this but it sounds like an abused child, as an adult asking their abusive parent to acknowledge the abuse. From my time in counseling as an adult coming from an abusive childhood, I learned that this is the best outcome of course but not to expect it and I think this "father" falls into that catagory, although miricales do happen. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 09:24:38 (EST)
Poster: John K. Email: kreilkamp@mindspring.com To: Mouse Murderer Subject: Re: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ? Message: Yeah, I basically agree with everything you said. (although I am not so radically non-violent as you. A racoon got into our attic about ten years ago and was determined to destroy the roof. I wanted so much to blow it to smithereens. As I see it, there's no escaping the fact that it's pretty much a dog eat dog world.) I have found that by actually thinking seriously about what happened to me while following the guru, I have come to the difficult conclusion that it was a pretty lame, stupid, idiotic way to spend my 20's. Oh yeah, I had some great times because people in cults feel incredibly close to each other, but the closeness was based on these ridiculous points of belief. Other people who did NOT believe were excluded. I was a fanatic, and the guru encouraged fanaticism. I don't believe this is a violent place. I think that if a guru goes around "sowing" or enncouraging fanatic behavior, then he deserves what he "reaps". So sayeth the humble servant of The Truth. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 09:37:52 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Robyn Subject: to Robyn (Re: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ?) Message: Jesus, man, this anonymous scumbag is calling Maharaji an 'alcoholic, womanizer, murderer and child molester' and all you have to say to this is 'good post'!? Katie, Brian, what's your comment on this? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 09:44:16 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mili Subject: Re: to Robyn (Re: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ?) Message: Jesus, man, this anonymous scumbag is calling Maharaji an 'alcoholic, womanizer, murderer and child molester' and all you have to say to this is 'good post'!? Katie, Brian, what's your comment on this? What! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 09:47:42 (EST)
Poster: Robyn Email: sundogs@hotmail.com To: Mili Subject: Re: to Robyn (Re: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ?) Message: Sorry Milli, I just got it. I was thinking of the post as a whole but they wrote that "even if he was a child molester" not that he was. I haven't heard about any womanizing, just haven't caught any of those posts and have heard about the drinking. I don't know if you follow USA news Milli but this womanizing stuff is becoming the top national pass time here. Robyn Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 09:57:55 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Mili Subject: Re: to Robyn (Re: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ?) Message: Jesus, man, this anonymous scumbag is calling Maharaji an 'alcoholic, womanizer, murderer and child molester' and all you have to say to this is 'good post'!? Katie, Brian, what's your comment on this? Mili - he didn't call M those things. He said people should make up their own minds about whether M is those things or not. What he said was: "I don’t see why people shouldn’t hear reports that their Guru is a drinker of brandies, admirer of ladies, a smoker who prefers this or that brand, an evil-tempered bully or even a murderous child-molester for that matter. Why not? Let each make their own mind up, and if the reports are confronting their beliefs about Maharaji, they could always have the integrity to find out for themselves if there is any truth there or if there is anything to do about it." Actually I thought it was a good post too. Regards from Katie Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 10:04:27 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: to Robyn (Re: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ?) Message: Mili: Regarding: Jesus, man, this anonymous scumbag is calling Maharaji an 'alcoholic, womanizer, murderer and child molester' and all you have to say to this is 'good post'!? Apparently I read a different post than you, because I didn't get that he was making this point. However, apart from this there are occasional wild or unfounded accusations. I recall one a few weeks ago about an interpretation of a comment made by MJ and his not being an "uncle" to someone. The interpretation was that if he was not an uncle he must be the father, and the inference was a relationship with Claudia. In the discussion, however, if was determined to my satisfaction that the "uncle" comment had more to do with MJ's mean-spiritedness regarding his in-laws, not exactly commendable but certainly not incestuous. What I cannot tolerate at this point is the notion that what people regard as sacred is exempt from discursive examination. I take some of your comments to infer that you think this ought to be the case, however I may be wrong. -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 10:05:57 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: to Mili (Re: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ?) Message: Mili, I commented to op below, but you may want to have a look, too. (Under katie's post to Mili and response) Wasn't Mouse Murder speaking of gurus in general? I didn't take that sentence as a direct attack on a specific guru. I think there have been accusations of MJ drinking, but I have never heard of him molesting children. VP Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 10:10:05 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: VP Subject: Re: to Mili (Re: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ?) Message: Mili, I commented to op below, but you may want to have a look, too. (Under katie's post to Mili and response) Wasn't Mouse Murder speaking of gurus in general? I didn't take that sentence as a direct attack on a specific guru. I think there have been accusations of MJ drinking, but I have never heard of him molesting children. VP Mili, I just re-read that and it appears he/she WAS talking about MJ but I think he was trying to say that there should be open discussion about MJ, not that MJ in fact performed these specific outrageous acts. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 10:36:37 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Scott T. Subject: Re: to Robyn (Re: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ?) Message: Scott, Like I mentioned to Katie in an E-mail once, I don't know much about M's private life. But, I see him dress conventionally, and talk polite. I saw video footage of him and his children - a normal, warm family relationship, if there ever was one. I have no doubt that he is a responsible father. Also, I have no doubt that he is responsible in his role as (spiritual) master. I think it is hard for some people to accept that a guru does not have to be an ascetic living in a cave, or a monastery. Perhaps its the Catholic archetype of a celibate pope that has been ingrained in our subconsciousness. Yet, there have been numerous instances of gurus and spiritual masters who were householders - Kabir, Nanak and Shri Hans come to mind. On another note, I am beginning to wonder just what am I doing here. I must say I genuinely like to talk to some of you people. There have been some worthwhile conversations (Katie even bought a book by Richard Dawkins that I recommended and I think I got some things squared away about legalistic thinking while duking it out with Jim). I think you are decent people in your own right, but I really feel that this Internet stuff is dehumanizing in that it does not allow for natural, person to person, face to face communication. In fact, it allows for the 'darker side' of human nature to express itself, because you have no idea who the sitting duck on the other end is. I've almost had enough of these anonymous rumors and insinuations. Maybe I am going to erase this bookmark, after all. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 10:39:29 (EST)
Poster: Katie Email: petkat@mail.trib.net To: Katie Subject: And one more thing (Re: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ?) Message: To Mili and all - One thing I'd like to make perfectly clear is that, to my knowledge, NO ONE on this site has EVER accused Maharaji of being a murderer or a child molester. Some of the Indian Mahatmas have been accused of child molesting, as you know, and Fakiranand may or may not have been a murderer (we don't know - do you?). People on the site HAVE said that M likes to drink cognac, admires certain women, smokes Marlboros, and has a bad temper. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 11:42:24 (EST)
Poster: Anon Email: To: Mili Subject: Re: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ? Message: Don't be silly Mili! I would like to reply to you in full but I don't have time just yet. I shall try to later. Just one thing though. I am NOT saying Maharaji is a Bluebeard or whatever , I merely implied that if those sort of extreme things are said about him then it's not so serious. Offensive possibly (as any Newspaper trashy article) yes they may be libelous but in that case he could take out a libel suit and deny it. Also people can make there own minds up about whether it's bad to smoke or drink or whatever.I couldn't care less if he smoked Malborough or joints all day long. Of course it's all hearsay, but why get so annoyed about it. Of course I'm not suggesting that he is a child molester you twit. I merely said that if people did call him that then let them be proved wrong otherwise I can't see any way of stopping them. It's no good moaning about it. I'll talk to you later if you're still on line. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 17:25:01 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: Katie Subject: to Katie (Re: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ?) Message: Jesus, man, this anonymous scumbag is calling Maharaji an 'alcoholic, womanizer, murderer and child molester' and all you have to say to this is 'good post'!? Katie, Brian, what's your comment on this? Mili - he didn't call M those things. He said people should make up their own minds about whether M is those things or not. What he said was: 'I don’t see why people shouldn’t hear reports that their Guru is a drinker of brandies, admirer of ladies, a smoker who prefers this or that brand, an evil-tempered bully or even a murderous child-molester for that matter. Why not? Let each make their own mind up, and if the reports are confronting their beliefs about Maharaji, they could always have the integrity to find out for themselves if there is any truth there or if there is anything to do about it.' Actually I thought it was a good post too. Regards from Katie Katie, I think we approach this thing differently. Sometimes I feel that this is all a game to you, while to me its extremely serious. I was extremely serious about receiving Knowledge, and extremely serious about whom I chose for my Guru Maharaj Ji. I think what really made up my mind was reading the Peace Bomb satsang. No ordinary 12-yr. old could have spoken like that before a million people in New Delhi! Then, there was the whole Mata Ji defamation campaign. It was weird, but understandable. This thing was over and settled long ago, but it seems it's not over yet, at least for some people here! Look, whether you think of yourself as a premie, or an ex-premie, Guru Maharaj Ji is the only Guru you have ever had and will have. If he is too much for you, give it a rest, take all the time you need. Give yourself a break. No one is stopping you. You don't have to start a holy war about it. Also, regardless of who it is - it's beyond bad taste to indulge in this kind of rumors, don't you think? I am surprised that you take these things so lightly! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 20:20:58 (EST)
Poster: Aesop Email: To: John K. Subject: Re: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ? Message: Yeah, I basically agree with everything you said. (although I am not so radically non-violent as you. A racoon got into our attic about ten years ago and was determined to destroy the roof. I wanted so much to blow it to smithereens. As I see it, there's no escaping the fact that it's pretty much a dog eat dog world.) I have found that by actually thinking seriously about what happened to me while following the guru, I have come to the difficult conclusion that it was a pretty lame, stupid, idiotic way to spend my 20's. Oh yeah, I had some great times because people in cults feel incredibly close to each other, but the closeness was based on these ridiculous points of belief. Other people who did NOT believe were excluded. I was a fanatic, and the guru encouraged fanaticism. I don't believe this is a violent place. I think that if a guru goes around 'sowing' or enncouraging fanatic behavior, then he deserves what he 'reaps'. So sayeth the humble servant of The Truth. John Violence and revenge is rarely something a "humble servant of The Truth" is called upon to foment or administer. You exemplify, something other than the higher virtues of humanity. And I cite your post in answer to the question asked in this thread, "Yes, this website is violently anti-MJ". And it is people like you make who make it so. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 20:25:33 (EST)
Poster: one who lived it Email: To: Aesop Subject: Re: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ? Message: All in all I think you have submitted a fair post given your position with M. I do have a problem with all the insults and innuendo that get spun by the many who want to do harm to M. First of all most of it has no foundation of fact. Second, that which is true is spun in a bad light when it isn't necessarily so. For example, fine brandy is something worthy of enjoyment by anyone, including M. Why must he be judged by such a double standard? Take a look at the interactions that go on here. When Katie or JW are accused of something that are of a far less heavier nature than child-molestation, they get very upset and quite insenced that someone would do such a thing without basis. Why can't they see that they are doing it to M only with far more damaging claims. They can't because they have a hard time seeing past the axe they are grinding to fairly evaluate M and his intentions. It may seem funny, but you had to have been there, to understand the anger. Young we were, flower children, looking for peace and love and then we found HIM. He asked for everything and we gave it all. We moved in his ashrams, like virgins going to their honeymoon. And then the whole dream started to shatter piece by piece. In these holy ashrams, I was raped by a mahatma - he said it was to hard for him to resist. But we hadn't done the emotional work yet and had no tools to understand abuse. Then MJ who had us living in poverty (you could not even get a decent winter coat in some of those ashrams). Was having a life of luxury beyond belief for us to contemplate. I was involved in the backstages of programs - I can vouch for this. and on and on. But through it all, all we wanted was peace and enlightment. I took me 15 years to understand that he could not give it to me and another 8 years to do the work on abuse. Now we are older and I know that many of us have healed and part of the healing is talking about how we did not know. Once I asked a premie who had been really close to MJ, why MJ had not acknowledged the fact that so many very interesting and intelligent premies had left. He repllied that MJ had been raised as a king and a prince and for him it was more How could they do this to me? Leaving me?!!!! I find that browsing through the forum, helps me remember and reclaim some of the lost parts of myself that are still wandering in some big Hall - blissed out or freaked out - not totally grounded and certainly lost. It may be true that the abusive father never acknowledge the past - but it is always healing when someone else in the family agrees that there has been abuse. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 03:51:28 (EST)
Poster: chr Email: To: one who lived it Subject: Re: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ? Message: That about says it all.The life of luxury was beyond belief-gold plated toilets etc and other things i've seen were beyond comprehension. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 06:10:32 (EST)
Poster: Mili Email: mili@cheerful.com To: one who lived it Subject: Re: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ? Message: All in all I think you have submitted a fair post given your position with M. I do have a problem with all the insults and innuendo that get spun by the many who want to do harm to M. First of all most of it has no foundation of fact. Second, that which is true is spun in a bad light when it isn't necessarily so. For example, fine brandy is something worthy of enjoyment by anyone, including M. Why must he be judged by such a double standard? Take a look at the interactions that go on here. When Katie or JW are accused of something that are of a far less heavier nature than child-molestation, they get very upset and quite insenced that someone would do such a thing without basis. Why can't they see that they are doing it to M only with far more damaging claims. They can't because they have a hard time seeing past the axe they are grinding to fairly evaluate M and his intentions. It may seem funny, but you had to have been there, to understand the anger. Young we were, flower children, looking for peace and love and then we found HIM. He asked for everything and we gave it all. We moved in his ashrams, like virgins going to their honeymoon. And then the whole dream started to shatter piece by piece. In these holy ashrams, I was raped by a mahatma - he said it was to hard for him to resist. But we hadn't done the emotional work yet and had no tools to understand abuse. Then MJ who had us living in poverty (you could not even get a decent winter coat in some of those ashrams). Was having a life of luxury beyond belief for us to contemplate. I was involved in the backstages of programs - I can vouch for this. and on and on. But through it all, all we wanted was peace and enlightment. I took me 15 years to understand that he could not give it to me and another 8 years to do the work on abuse. Now we are older and I know that many of us have healed and part of the healing is talking about how we did not know. Once I asked a premie who had been really close to MJ, why MJ had not acknowledged the fact that so many very interesting and intelligent premies had left. He repllied that MJ had been raised as a king and a prince and for him it was more How could they do this to me? Leaving me?!!!! I find that browsing through the forum, helps me remember and reclaim some of the lost parts of myself that are still wandering in some big Hall - blissed out or freaked out - not totally grounded and certainly lost. It may be true that the abusive father never acknowledge the past - but it is always healing when someone else in the family agrees that there has been abuse. Could that mahatma have been Mr Ex? Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Tues, Mar 17, 1998 at 06:27:11 (EST)
Poster: Mouse Murderer Email: To: Robyn Subject: Re: Is this Website 'Violently' anti-MJ? Message: Dear Mouse, Good post. I agree but just want to add one comment. The last statement, and you probably already realise this but it sounds like an abused child, as an adult asking their abusive parent to acknowledge the abuse. From my time in counseling as an adult coming from an abusive childhood, I learned that this is the best outcome of course but not to expect it and I think this 'father' falls into that catagory, although miricales do happen. Robyn Thanks Robyn. Yes you're quite right. I don't expect anything. Anon=MouseMurderer (temporarily) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 15, 1998 at 14:25:23 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: Forum III Message: I checked out the available forum software packages, and got pretty disgusted with them. What I wanted was a format just like this one, only one I could fix when it went south. Some only showed the thread starts, and others forced you to read every post in the thread (since they sent them all to you) before you got to the new ones at the bottom. The sites that would host a forum offered software that wasn't close to what I wanted. I was also leary of start-up companies that might be run by the same sort of monkeys that run Paradise. Everything either cost way more money than it would be worth, or offered way less than I wanted. So just I decided to learn Perl, write a forum, and host it on Ex-Premie.Org where I can watch over it. You should recognize the format, plus notice an improvement in speed. Right now, there is no password required to post, since I haven't got to that part yet. I want to check out how to ensure that people don't feel hesitant about registering - what we're gonna do with their email addresses etc. (Premies are so paranoid. Peace Of Mind isn't what it was 'sposed to be - but then neither is Paradise.) I want to create user configurations to go in the user records, but haven't decided out what bells and whistles to offer yet. There will be no passwords required to read the forum, and you will only be prompted for a password You can preview your posts to see what they will look like. This will allow you to see if you left broken HTML in there somewhere. Also, you can see if your HTML even works. All HTML is supported except for inline stuff like gifs, applets, sounds, etc. Those are defeated, so you don't have to wait while some garbage loads. Previewing your post is the default, but you can check a box and skip that if you want. Subjects are settable only on a new thread, since prepending 'Re:' to the front of every level of replies throws length-limiting out the window. (Sorry, bb.) Message quoting is too messy to write, so you can just cut and paste anything that you want to quote. Surround it with italics, and it will be apparent that you are quoting that part. You can preview it to make sure that it looks right. There is a limit on message size that's set at 4000 right now. I'm not sure if that's too high or too low, but I can change it later if it seems too cramped (or too airy). Let me know if you find yourselves running out of room. I don't have any archiving or editing functions written yet and that will be the next step. Right now, there is a ceiling of 500 posts before it refuses to accept any more. I should be able to come up with an archiver before then. What I want to do right now is to let everyone in to give it the acid test. If you find that you get an error message on a grey background, email me a copy of everythingwhat it said and then STOP USING that forum until I get the problem fixed. Don't post the problem here hoping I'll read it because I'm pretty busy with the new forum and fall behind reading this one really fast. You can always return to Paradise in the meanwhile. ('The door is always open', as the man said.) Okay, you got all that stuff? Feel free to torture Forum III with your HTML - fonts and all. But don't post too much content there that you will want to keep afterwards, because I still have to write and debug an archiver for it. I could lose posts in the process, so I'm not gonna guarantee that they'll be around. When the archiver is written (and if the forum has survived you people) I'll declare it officially open and replace Forum II with a page re-directing everyone to Forum III after running a final archive here and killing the posts. It's right here. Bookmark it. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 15, 1998 at 19:27:16 (EST)
Poster: Brian Email: brian@ex-premie.org To: Everyone Subject: It's all better now (Re: Forum III) Message: Okay, it's open again. Just found out why you can't allow double-quotes in text that gets edited in a web browser. The browser eats everything from the first quote on. I had to delete the posts that were there, though owing to another little problem that's been corrected. Also, unless some problem pops up, you can now change the subject in replies. (Are you happy now?) Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 15, 1998 at 21:10:28 (EST)
Poster: Mickey the Pharisee Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net To: Brian Subject: Re: Forum III Message: Dude!!! Forum III is da bomb!! Great work!!! Yours in Christ, Mickey Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 15, 1998 at 22:26:08 (EST)
Poster: VP Email: To: Brian Subject: Re: It's all better now (Re: Forum III) Message: Yes! Love you, Brian! Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 15, 1998 at 23:47:23 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Mickey the Pharisee Subject: G'bye Forum II (Re: Forum III) Message: Goodbye Forum II... Hello Forum III. Thanks Brian! -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 08:07:10 (EST)
Poster: Scott T. Email: To: Everyone Subject: Forum III Message: Brian: I can't seem to connect to the new forum, or for that matter to the ex-premie.org site. The background pattern and gifs are missing from the Forum II page as well, so I assume the ex-premie server is down? -Scott Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Mon, Mar 16, 1998 at 11:55:33 (EST)
Poster: David Email: David.Studio57@btinternet.com To: Brian Subject: Re: Forum III Message: I can access Forum III in Unix using the Lynx text browser but I cannot access it from Windows 3.1 using Microsoft Internet Explorer. (Wretched Bill Gates again!). I wonder if anyone else has this problem. Also Brian, I tried to email you using your link in your post and couldn't connect using MIE. The error message when I tried to connect with Forum III was: This program does not support the protocol for accessing ''http://www.ex-premie.org/forum3/forum3.cgi'' I have tried just accessing it by using the URL in the address field in MIE but the same error message comes up. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 15, 1998 at 00:51:33 (EST)
Poster: gumby Email: megumby@hotmail.com To: Long Time Premies... Subject: Life... Message: Dear Premie Friends, I am trying to sincerely get a sense of why you are following m. I really want to just understand, what the pull is. I am especially interested in hearing from LONG time premies, (as I can imagine what the reasons might be for NEWBIES). What say? In order to help you I have gone out on the limb and created some possible answers. 1) Inertia:, I've been following the m dude for so long, that it feels comfortable. Besides, change is hard, even though it will happen, I don't want to look at things in my own life. 2) Sand Principle, I don't know any other way So why sweat it. 3) I can't explain it but there is a feeling that I get deep inside of me when I am around m. I realize feelings come and go, but it seems so real. 4) ... please tell GAGBWY -gumby Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
Date: Sun, Mar 15, 1998 at 08:58:00 (EST)
Poster: Longtime Premie Email: Not Given To: gumby Subject: Re: Life... Message: My name is Pat Strong and I received Knowledge in 1972. My answer is #3, except that it doesn't "seem " real; it is real and, yes, I do have other things in my life that inspire me too. Back To Index -:- Top of Index |