Ex-Premie.Org

Forum I Archive # 8

From: Jun 18, 1997

To: Jul 15, 1997

Page: 2 Of: 5


Deena -:- Maharaji's message -:- Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 08:19:34 (EDT)
___secret name -:- Re: Maharaji's message -:- Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 11:51:39 (EDT)
___Deena -:- Re: Maharaji's message -:- Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 13:13:05 (EDT)
___Tom -:- Re: Maharaji's message -:- Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 17:03:36 (EDT)
___Deena -:- Re: Maharaji's message -:- Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 18:52:56 (EDT)

Jim -:- speak up (this ain't a video) -:- Sun, Jul 6, 1997 at 20:31:08 (EDT)
___Deena -:- Re: speak up (this ain't a video) -:- Sun, Jul 6, 1997 at 22:18:38 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: speak up (this ain't a video) -:- Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 01:33:50 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: speak up (this ain't a video) -:- Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 01:48:48 (EDT)
___Deena -:- Re: speak up (this ain't a video) -:- Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 07:30:14 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: speak up (this ain't a video) -:- Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 09:35:10 (EDT)
___secret name -:- Re: speak up (this ain't a video) -:- Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 12:06:06 (EDT)
___Scott -:- Re: speak up (this ain't a video) -:- Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 14:50:04 (EDT)
___Scott -:- Re: speak up (this ain't a video) -:- Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 14:58:29 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: speak up (this ain't a video) -:- Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 16:13:49 (EDT)
___Deena -:- Re: speak up (this ain't a video) -:- Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 16:29:58 (EDT)

PREEMY -:- HOLY EYES! -:- Sun, Jul 6, 1997 at 15:09:51 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: HOLY EYES! -:- Sun, Jul 6, 1997 at 18:08:05 (EDT)
___Anon -:- Re: HOLY EYES! -:- Sun, Jul 6, 1997 at 21:40:46 (EDT)
___Deena -:- Re: HOLY EYES! -:- Sun, Jul 6, 1997 at 22:49:31 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: HOLY EYES! -:- Sun, Jul 6, 1997 at 23:24:37 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: HOLY EYES! -:- Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 01:19:48 (EDT)

Jim -:- Thanks Jerome, sorry Deena, hi Mili, fuc -:- Fri, Jul 4, 1997 at 00:34:14 (EDT)
___Deena -:- Re: Thanks Jerome, sorry Deena, hi Mili, fuc -:- Fri, Jul 4, 1997 at 14:34:20 (EDT)

Mili -:- To Scott, Jim and Anon -:- Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 15:28:24 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: To Scott, Jim and Anon -:- Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 23:41:46 (EDT)
___Scott -:- Re: To Scott, Jim and Anon -:- Fri, Jul 4, 1997 at 11:50:05 (EDT)
___? -:- Re: To Scott, Jim and Anon -:- Sat, Jul 5, 1997 at 16:15:43 (EDT)

Scott -:- The Fallen angels from Paradise -:- Wed, Jul 2, 1997 at 16:33:58 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: The Fallen angels from Paradise -:- Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 19:47:09 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: The Fallen angels from Paradise -:- Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 23:39:03 (EDT)
___bb -:- Re: The Fallen angels from Paradise -:- Fri, Jul 4, 1997 at 01:16:54 (EDT)
___J Scibener -:- Re: The Fallen angels from Paradise -:- Fri, Jul 4, 1997 at 06:17:12 (EDT)
___the former tom -:- Re: The Fallen angels from Paradise -:- Fri, Jul 4, 1997 at 14:10:08 (EDT)
___you decide -:- Re: The Fallen angels from Paradise -:- Fri, Jul 4, 1997 at 14:36:13 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: The Fallen angels from Paradise -:- Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 00:35:27 (EDT)

Jim -:- Maharaji: one 'very, very light man' -:- Tues, Jul 1, 1997 at 22:10:48 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: Maharaji: one 'very, very light man' -:- Wed, Jul 2, 1997 at 05:57:34 (EDT)
___b -:- Re: Maharaji: one 'very, very light man' -:- Wed, Jul 2, 1997 at 06:48:01 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: Maharaji: one 'very, very light man' -:- Wed, Jul 2, 1997 at 13:01:53 (EDT)
___bee -:- Re: Maharaji: one 'very, very light man' -:- Wed, Jul 2, 1997 at 15:27:12 (EDT)
___Anon -:- Re: Maharaji: one 'very, very light man' -:- Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 09:24:05 (EDT)
___Tom -:- Re: Maharaji: one 'very, very light man' -:- Fri, Jul 4, 1997 at 00:33:56 (EDT)

Tom -:- new york event -:- Tues, Jul 1, 1997 at 16:51:32 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: new york event -:- Tues, Jul 1, 1997 at 22:00:16 (EDT)
___Tom -:- Re: new york event -:- Wed, Jul 2, 1997 at 06:27:05 (EDT)

JW -:- Thank You Scott -:- Tues, Jul 1, 1997 at 12:57:17 (EDT)
___Scott -:- Re: Thank You Scott -:- Wed, Jul 2, 1997 at 15:31:32 (EDT)
___ALPHA -:- Re: Thank You Scott -:- Sun, Jul 6, 1997 at 14:56:49 (EDT)

Scott -:- Secret Plans -:- Tues, Jul 1, 1997 at 01:44:23 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Secret Plans -:- Tues, Jul 1, 1997 at 16:41:22 (EDT)


Date: Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 08:19:34 (EDT)
Poster: Deena
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji's message
Message:
Well, here I am again. It is just after 5:30 am (surprisingly fast this site is at this early hour on a Mon. morning?) and I find myself with alot to say. Last night my husband (shall he remain forever annonymous at his request) went to one of M's video events. It's the first time in a few weeks. When he came home he had that smile on his face....one I know so well. Funny how when you are a premie you enjoy seeing that goofy look and when your an ex-premie it turns your stomach. Sort of like a former addict's view of a current addicts stoned grin. This whole process of understanding all the years devoted to M is sort of like being sick. You puke your guts out until there is nothing left. So here I hurl....

Seeing the glazed over eyes and silly smirk inspired me at 4 in the morning to wake up because it all seems so clear. I use to be the same way not that long ago (5 months).

M and his followers feel sorry for so called 'normal people' that lack this 'magic' in their lives - that in itself sounds incredably arrogant doesn't it?

Here's how it works -
It is at whatever point in a person's life that you feel something is missing in your life, you feel empty. Then you are introduced to a message. That message is simple: What you are looking for is right here within you. Your contentment, happiness, your bliss IS experienceable in this lifetime (don't have to wait to die to experience heaven). This is a powerful reminder of something you've forgotten. And that is why you feel something is missing. Upon hearing this message you feel uplifted to a high you think can't be understood. The words trigger a good feeling and from that moment on you want to capture that forever. And why not? It is the truth. Whether you are watching the Saturday morning cartoons munching on a bowl of Fruit Loops or cleaning out the cat litter box, there is this life going on inside of you that feels good regardless of the external goings on in your life.

So what's the problem? Nothing. As long as there isn't a graph. like this:

------/\----------------/\----------------------------/\--------
The peaks are reserved for the triggers in your life that bring that feeling ie: slipping a video of M in the VCR, the sound of his voice, anticipation of his arrival, the sight of him walking on stage, writing a cheque for him, booking a flight to see him, receiveng a phone call from one of his followers about anything concerning M.

You see, all of life seems pretty blah compared to those moments. Why? Because that is the only time you truly feel alive and the message changes to the only time and place you feel this felling has to do with the master/devotee relationship. No longer is your freedom simple. No longer is it just a matter of feeling alive. There is a condition necessary. And that is where the harm begins. You need to dedicate your life for it to continue. If you don't you are always striving to at some level and down on yourself for not. ( ie: the guilt alot of premies feel about not practising enough, not watching enough videos, not seeing M enough, not giving enough money, enough service, remembering what is 'real' etc. etc.)

A trigger mentioned already, brings immediate satisfaction to the spiritual junkie - the addicted to the inner high in a black and white limiting realm of Knowledge, where the ultimate in life is resticted to certain experiences, like remembering the master, even random good feelings that seeminly come out of nowhere are no longer mysterious because you attribute there source to the master. This is interpreted as magic. It is common for a follower of M to say 'I don't know how it works but it's amazing.' But it isn't unexplainable at all. All set ups bring the same results. If you witnessed the followers of Marshall Applewhite and Heaven's Gate (which in theory is so completely different than M's teachings) the teacher/devotee relationship and they're dependence on each other are identical yeilding the same results - blind faith.

M's message in a nut shell: How to become like the child you once were, simply enjoying this life to the fullest.....You must have a parent to quide you. You must stick your fingers here and there. You must listen and obey or else' no more feel good'. You can become a bliss ninny if you follow these easy to follow insturctions and then your life can have the duality of believeing that your feeling good is dependent on a source that doesn't exist!
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Date: Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 11:51:39 (EDT)
Poster: secret name
Email:
To: Deena
Subject: Re: Maharaji's message
Message:
When I read that all I could say was wow!
I was going to leave it at that but I had some interactions
with people and I re-realized that people are too lazy to feel themselves as it requires too much consistant effort.
The effort gets easy after a while but at the start of the effort it can require a lot of focused effort. That is why the graph looks like it does. Some moths ago I went to a local
event where some former instructor who is the roommate of the head of the mission was sent out to check out the aspirant scene. She spoke about having a hard job and that to compensate she tries to squeeze in 15 more minutes in the morning. I was surprised that she didnt get it that to feel yourself now you have to feel yourself now.
You are so right. I am sure she is a classic graph person
and she was uncomfortable speaking and the audience was there for her! and the topic was one she should have been at ease about as she was an instructor once. And yet, being a graphie, she looks to maharaji for -- well you
said it real well at the end of your post.
Amazingly enough, it might be the case that your husband will either have to start really connecting to himself all day long to be free, or remain a graphie, or somehow mentally get the picture about maharaji.
Which shows us just how potent m's trip is.
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Date: Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 13:13:05 (EDT)
Poster: Deena
Email:
To: secret name
Subject: Re: Maharaji's message
Message:
I've been trying to understand what you mean in your post. When I used the graph I was referring to new premies and even the ones who have been around for years and whom M still keeps close by because he considers them to be the best advertisement of this Knowledge...ie: David Smith. I was referring to the rationalization of M and all his premies that the best is the experience of Knowledge and all the rest is illusion. This is the duality, the cult thinking, that limits people's happiness to the relationship of master and sturdent. The high point in premie's lives is anything connected to M, the rest can never meet up to the expectation that premie's have of this. Just talking about M and programs they get a high not unlike the drug addict going over past highs. M reinforces the belief that you can't find this joy anywhere else because as far as he is concerned the Creator set it up this way. Yes, that makes alot of sense doesn't it? Creator sets up the master/devotee relationship so that the devotee can experience the Creator. All through time it has occurred. Wonderful. So if Maharaji is an alcoholic or likes to have premies show their trust by making them do sadistic things...well that's all part and parcel I quess. Master needs the fancy home in Malibu and all the cars...of course, how silly of me. How could it be any different. The premies in the ashram were told to remain celibate while M partook in the very pleasures they were to deny themselves.They lived in poverty while he lived in the wealth they provided for him, Surrounded by premies to fulfill his evey whim is all part of the Creators plan. Yah, right.

If M finds it interesting here it's because he wishes the premies surrounding him were as clear and forcoming. He is always hinting at the fact he is surrounded by stupid people.

I don't know what your point about my husband was...please do explain.
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Date: Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 17:03:36 (EDT)
Poster: Tom
Email:
To: Deena
Subject: Re: Maharaji's message
Message:
Hi deena,
I figure you mean that the high graph points are when those people are experiencing something inside themselves and feel connected and good.
And that since they dont try to feel themselves during thier day, like that instructor sherry weinstien I think her name was, that they feel incomplete and needing the guru's help.
And since they dont try, they feel they can't do it, and when they see another person and they talk about the knowledge, it is like two dead heads who have been haveing a so-so day and they meet and start talking about
the dead and they get all uplifted and feel great and feel the dead group comraderie. Or when they go to a video they feel that good feeling that comes from concentration.
If they went to any movie theater and watched people coming out you would see a lot of that same effect.
I have seen many people get star struck at virtually anybody. The local mayor comes into the bar and people fall over themselves to see and if he gives them attention they are very pleased. Sports and tv people and politicans
and the pope and the dolly lama and anybody with a lot of money and I have seen on job sites normal guys who become slavish in front of a wealthy person and I have two millionaire relatives and the kind of sucking up that happens is just surprising. It seems like we are tailor made to be dazzled sheep. No matter the object of our worship and thier real ways. At the local mens christian breakfast I no longer go to, the pastor was always getting a huge dose of worshipful suck up shit that he was not trying to correct. No wonder m is used to it. Everyone is lost in the fog of illusion that we are not all totally equal.
Human nature being that way, perhaps it's an impossible dream to think that god should clearly show us the way.
We are not inclined to believe it or do what it takes and to be free is just to tall an order for our present orientation.
People want to look up to someone, and even though they already have thier religions, they still will suck up to any lowlife if the conditions are right. Again, some of those conditions are fame,money,alleged power,beauty,strength,
a desirable job,the desirable jobs include -saviour of mankind-, what chance does a person really have when the only thing that evens us out is the life and we dont think making the effort to stay with it will really do that much for us. Humans deserve thier fate and we really shouldn't be in any grand delusion that this website is something important. It's only important for us. And its only important for us if we are going to recognise the way out. Otherwise it's just a matter of types of illusion. The argument over which illusion is superior has been going on for a long long time. Maharaji's is by no means the worst. And at least I came away with the knowledge. (do you think that last comment will throw off the death squad?)


Pretend you husband is going to die soon. My wife is, and it will help you overlook whatever else can bug you about him. You be free, you are not in competition with m, otherwise he still has your life. At least your husband is not a cheating drunk or worse. I think I have given up on everybody finally,even my kids, If i am feeling the life they will get that from me and everyone likes that, they can be as miserable as they want. I am not responsible for thier feelings, life allows me only so much control. But everyone does count on me to feel that solid kind way. Thats really what they want out of me.
I was a dummy to think someone else was a factor in that.
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Date: Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 18:52:56 (EDT)
Poster: Deena
Email:
To: Tom
Subject: Re: Maharaji's message
Message:
Tom- will you e-mail me? I feel that I need to communicate with you. You stopped me dead in my tracks when you spoke of your wife.
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Date: Sun, Jul 6, 1997 at 20:31:08 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: speak up (this ain't a video)
Message:
I understand that people are taking a break from participating here because a) the page loads so slowly; b) it's summer; c) we're all awaiting the new newsgroup and d) the hatred in our minds is nothing compared tot he timeless love in premies' hearts.

Still, it would be nice if some of you ex's emailed a little support to alt.config re the upcoming newsgroup.

By the way, I came across this dog-trainer's site yesterday. He lists a number of his celebrity clients and there, along with Charo, Barbara and Pia Zadora -- not to mention Rod Stewart and Julio Iglesis -- is the most-esteemed Lord of The Universe in all of Malibu.

I guess Maharaji's natural lord vibe isn't quite strong enough to still fido's bark, let alone premieji's restless mind.
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Date: Sun, Jul 6, 1997 at 22:18:38 (EDT)
Poster: Deena
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: speak up (this ain't a video)
Message:
Just here for a couple of minutes and I'd like to point out that I did give my support immediately but their seems to have been a problem that Scott is working on. Don't know what everyone else's story is.
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Date: Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 01:33:50 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Jim and Scott
Subject: Re: speak up (this ain't a video)
Message:
I understand that people are taking a break from participating here because a) the page loads so slowly; b) it's summer; c) we're all awaiting the new newsgroup and d) the hatred in our minds is nothing compared tot he timeless love in premies' hearts.

Still, it would be nice if some of you ex's emailed a little support to alt.config re the upcoming newsgroup.

By the way, I came across this dog-trainer's site yesterday. He lists a number of his celebrity clients and there, along with Charo, Barbara and Pia Zadora -- not to mention Rod Stewart and Julio Iglesis -- is the most-esteemed Lord of The Universe in all of Malibu.

I guess Maharaji's natural lord vibe isn't quite strong enough to still fido's bark, let alone premieji's restless mind.
Jim, please help someone who has always been in the slow reading group. Send what support to whom, why and how? I have not been requested to "support" anything and so I'm not sure what exactly I've failed to do. I'm also concerned that I will not be able to reach the corner of cyberspace that the newsgroup will be. I have access to the internet through my firm and we have virtually every search engine in existence. Can I get there through one of them?
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Date: Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 01:48:48 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: speak up (this ain't a video)
Message:
Speaking of the Lord's dogs, do you remember when somebody at Maharaj Ji's residence in Malibu (I think it was Danny Blood) was training the divine dogs in some sort of a protective suit, and Maharaj Ji, in one or his more playful (read sadistic) moments, had the guy stand there and allow the Lord to shoot some sort of a gun at him (it might have been one of those "bullet guns" he was talking about)?


Anyway, when this was told to us in satsang by people who were there, we were just so inspired and blissed out that the Lord was teaching a premie total and complete trust in Guru Maharaj Ji in this way. It was the same way I felt when I heard Maharaj Ji ordered Bahari Singh(sp?) to take his clothes off and sit in a tub of freezing water on the roof of the ashram in Kansas City one night in the middle of the Winter. Maharaj Ji was probably in a similar playful mood on that day as well and so concerned that Bahari Singh learn total surrenderto and trust in him. How blissful and inspiring he was with his lilas.
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Date: Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 07:30:14 (EDT)
Poster: Deena
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: speak up (this ain't a video)
Message:
That is one story I never heard before. Amazing how we all rationalize sadistic behavior as some lofty divine teaching. Makes me sick to think I trusted someone so disturbed.

By the way e-mail Scott right away and ask him to give you info about supporting the newsgroup...tell him you havn't a clue and didn't recieve his original e-mail. Which makes me wonder how many other people don't know anything about all this. Don't feel bad because when I did receive Scott's e-mail and followed his instructions my vote of support didn't work so he's trying to post it himself. Scott - if you are reading this something wierd is going on!
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Date: Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 09:35:10 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: speak up (this ain't a video)
Message:
I understand that people are taking a break from participating here because a) the page loads so slowly; b) it's summer; c) we're all awaiting the new newsgroup and d) the hatred in our minds is nothing compared tot he timeless love in premies' hearts.

Still, it would be nice if some of you ex's emailed a little support to alt.config re the upcoming newsgroup.

By the way, I came across this dog-trainer's site yesterday. He lists a number of his celebrity clients and there, along with Charo, Barbara and Pia Zadora -- not to mention Rod Stewart and Julio Iglesis -- is the most-esteemed Lord of The Universe in all of Malibu.

I guess Maharaji's natural lord vibe isn't quite strong enough to still fido's bark, let alone premieji's restless mind.
Jim, please help someone who has always been in the slow reading group. Send what support to whom, why and how? I have not been requested to 'support' anything and so I'm not sure what exactly I've failed to do. I'm also concerned that I will not be able to reach the corner of cyberspace that the newsgroup will be. I have access to the internet through my firm and we have virtually every search engine in existence. Can I get there through one of them?


JW,
I guess it's time to say good-bye. We, the new generation, the ex-premies who will make a difference in this world, are moving off to a newsgroup, support for which you still have a brief chance to offer at alt.config

More than that, I cannot say. Scott is our master. He is taking us.
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Date: Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 12:06:06 (EDT)
Poster: secret name
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: speak up (this ain't a video)
Message:
I now see a future problem.
If legal push comes to shove, most of our stories are not verifyable enough even though they are numerous and true. Maybe the former Jim can give a legal opinion.
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Date: Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 14:50:04 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: speak up (this ain't a video)
Message:
Hello JW,
- I'll email you the URL to send your letter of support and explain why you weren't notified.
Scott
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Date: Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 14:58:29 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: secret name
Subject: Re: speak up (this ain't a video)
Message:
Dear Secrecy,
- Actually, many of the accounts given here are verifiable and come complete with one or more first hand witnesses. Any second hand accounts need only be verifiable as second hand accounts if they are stated as such. For example, "I heard in Sat Sang". Why do you think we haven't seen any slander suits thus far???? When someone tells honestly what happened to them, the only ones to lose are those who have invested themselves in dishonesty.

Scott
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Date: Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 16:13:49 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: secret name
Subject: Re: speak up (this ain't a video)
Message:
I now see a future problem.
If legal push comes to shove, most of our stories are not verifyable enough even though they are numerous and true. Maybe the former Jim can give a legal opinion.
I agree with what Scott said about just saying what you saw or heard, or, to give your theories about what has happened or is happening and there is no liability. We still have the right of free speech in this country, and no matter how rich someone might be, like GMJ, it doesn't give him the right not to be discussed, especially among people who used to be his devotees and who feel wronged by him.


By the way, could you imagine being sued by GMJ or his minions? [I must now remove my hands from the keyboard and wring them together with delight and the prospect of that!]


All the stuff that GMJ is apparently trying to hide would be discoverable (he would have to produce under court order all the videos and documents showing how he portrayed himself as god, how he harrassed people to move into and stay in his ashrams, how he demanded of his followers total dedication and total surrender, and possibiliy how he spent, on himself, the millions he got from all of us over the years etc.,etc.)and everyone who had ever been around him could potentially be called to testify under oath, and under penalty of perjury, some of whom are none too thrilled with him at the moment. Just think of all the interesting stuff they could say about his private comments, marital fidelity or lack thereof, and other personal habits, not to mention the financial stuff.


But moreover, can you imagine the field day the press would have with a story about a fabulously wealthy cult-leader suing one of his former devotees for comments he or she made about him? Now that would be just GREAT for GMJ's image, right? I doubt you would even have to hire a lawyer, the anti-cult groups, and probably the ACLU, would probably provide you a defense gratis.


By the way, the major defense to a libel or slander suit is, you guessed it: truth.


No, such a suit would NEVER happen, unless GMJ is more nuts that I thought he was, but we can dream, can't we?
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Date: Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 16:29:58 (EDT)
Poster: Deena
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: speak up (this ain't a video)
Message:
mmmmmm....what a wonderful dream JW :}
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Date: Sun, Jul 6, 1997 at 15:09:51 (EDT)
Poster: PREEMY
Email: EEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZ
To: Everyone
Subject: HOLY EYES!
Message:
MAHARAJI,visits your page regularly,he finds it interesting.
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Date: Sun, Jul 6, 1997 at 18:08:05 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: PREEMY
Subject: Re: HOLY EYES!
Message:
MAHARAJI,visits your page regularly,he finds it interesting.
Ain't that a peach? Maharaji, if you're reading this, don't worry about the recent slowdown of activity here. I think we're all waiting for the newsgroup because, as you understand in your infinite wisdom, this page is too slow to work with. By the way, Maharaji, have you posted your support for the newsgroup to alt.config yet? You know how it goes: if everyone lit just one little candle....

By the way, Lord, is it true that your premies -- some of whom don't even think of you as a measly guru, while others have never forgotten your prime directive to obliterate their entire selves on your holy lotus feet -- can't wait for us to give up talking about you? Really, if that's what you all want why don't you just say so? No one's trying to be rude or anything. It's your name and who are we to speak it in vain? Obviously that would be sacriligious and we may be apostates but we're not stupid. Hell no. Not when you could pick us all up and turn us blue and everytthing. No fucking way.

See, Maharaji, I thought you wanted us to be seekers of truth, to ask 'who is guru Maharaji Ji?' and to ask til we know the answer. I guess I'm getting my agya mixed up. That's my real problem. I'm stuck in the past. Maybe I should just get a few mementos -- a couple of spoons or something -- and put the past behind me.

'Those were the days, my friend
I thought they'd never end
....'

Hey, Maharaji, would you consider lending an old ashram premie a few bucks just for old time's sake? Huh? Come on, man, you're not hurting, are you. Hey, we're like family, right? Family of Love. Come on, brother. I'll love you forever and that's what it's all about right? Love? Lots of love, and not the false kind either. Pure unconditional love, and that's the kind I could have for you IF you helped me out a bit. Come on, Maharaji, have a heart. You once taught me to love, now teach me how to give. Come on, you endless well of beauty, you. You sublime glory of all glories.... (see, I can talk you up pretty good still, huh? I, too, can make you feel like the Lord you really are. Don't give up on us, Lord. To the last breath... you know, the one that separates the men from the boys. I propose a toast: Lechaim!)
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Date: Sun, Jul 6, 1997 at 21:40:46 (EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: HOLY EYES!
Message:
Wait a mo'.
What IF?
I mean.. what if it were true that MJ checks this page and finds it interesting?
I think that to be highly improbable actually. But if he were indeed showing interest, I would consider that to be a positive development actually.
I 'like' to think that he does. Just as I like to believe that Martians are huddled behind the 'Pathfinder' giggling.
I have always thought that MJ is, to a degree, an innocent victim himself of his own past programming and that he may in some way feel a bit trapped by the image of himself that he has unwisely encouraged people to perceive. I say 'unwisely' because I believe wisdom to actually increase with age. Hence, the longer we live the more we regard our former selves as childish,and possibly with some embarrassment. I have just read some letters I wrote in 1975 as a naiive and enthusiastic premie. Now I see how narrow and frankly arrogant my perspective was.
They say youth is arrogant. It's all relative. Maybe Maharaji is reserved about his past for the same embarrassed reasons. Premies often cite that 'Maharaji is actually a really shy guy'.
A sense of shyness is an opposite extreme, but nevertheless a close relation to, a sense of over-importance. Or put bluntly, a sense of Ego.
We all suffer from that syndrome to degrees. Powerful leaders and people with strong public images suffer the most from such duality.
It is hard for Maharaji to confess to having Ego problems himself, having spent the best part of his life claiming to be beyond it's negative influence.
Maharaji may be taking an interest in this site because it is the only place where people dare to question his authority with any enlightening eloquence and commitment. Those who write here may seem to be refreshingly honest sometimes compared to the predictable mindless agreement that must greet him at his every turn. No matter how sincere etc.
If anything can be accorded to this site, I would say that it is that, here alone I have found an united and courageous expression of formerly repressed feelings about 'being a premie'. Nowhere else have people really spoken in such depth and for so long about these issues that they have been struggling with. When in front of Maharaji everyone is polite and respectful to the degree that honesty suffers and, of course, dubious emotions prevail.
I hear Marolyn is a Therapist of sorts now.
Since I heard that, I have entertained a fantasy of running through a print out of these issues with her and hearing her caring response. After all, she must have something POSITIVE to say as a THERAPIST right? I have been thinking about exactly what my gripe is. It is not that MJ drinks , smokes, or copulates with Yaks. That is not my problem.
It is not that he should be run out of town for evading tax or having 500 aeroplanes. It is not, essentially, his behaviour.
My gripe is that by doing what he said and following him extremely carefully, I was led into particularly unpleasant circumstances and influences. Namely the Ashram.
It really was for me the most insufferably boring, heartless and disappointing way to have 'mis-spent' my youth; and my loyalty to him, which was unquestionable, was not reciprocated or appreciated by him at all,as far as I know. I lost out. Even my meditation suffered in the ashram - We were so pushed to raise money etc. that I lived a pleasureless existence as, effectively, an unpaid servant. My trust in him then started to gradually dwindle until now I find myself quite shocked that he feels no human sympathy or understanding of my plight. Obviously I am not alone in that sadness and anger. Those years I dedicated to him are gone forever.
What I am trying to say is that I feel that I made a huge sacrifice, personally, to follow Maharaji and that that was in vain and was misguided.
While those around him now naughtily sip their ciders at his parties and feel blessed to be a part of his ongoing celebrations, I am elsewhere. I am not going to see him because his influence certainly suppressed my intelligence, and my growth. I was in danger of becoming a middle-aged fake. By daring to question the unquestionable, by daring to seek the truth again with a brave heart, I am finally moving on. Will he move on too?
If you are there Maharaji, spare a kind thought for us, who certainly have been your real followers. That is why we speak out here..hoping indeed that you will hear of our pain and will maybe have some respect for our experiences and concern for the effect that you have had on us.
Oh yes. We are still here alright. We will not go away.
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Date: Sun, Jul 6, 1997 at 22:49:31 (EDT)
Poster: Deena
Email:
To: PREEMY and MAHARAJI
Subject: Re: HOLY EYES!
Message:
Dear Preemy, does Maharaji mean interesting as in the way that comedian from' Laugh In' use to say 'Very interesting...but stupid!'. Just wondering.

Maharaji, if you are reading this, I just want you to know that without your blessings (ie:' Blessings to all the premies', as you have so often said) my life is incredable and I am richer in appreciation for life than ever before. The whole devotee - teacher relationship is really over rated. You should try the freedom of being truely free...I mean, the cage you always refer to, don't you see? Your father built that cage for you and you built it for all the premies. They think they're free because they love you. They don't know , you don't know what it's like to be free when everything is the master. That's not freedom. That's delusion. It has been going on for a very long time. Yes, that's true. But that doesn't mean it isn't delusion. If you tried it you would know what I mean. That takes courage. To follow does not take half as much courage as to walk away.

I always experienced you as the one who saved me, as I know you experience your master to be the one who saved you. Maybe you find it the possibility that it is not real interesting.

P.S. I hope you are reading the archive digest because that sums it all up. Enjoy!
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Date: Sun, Jul 6, 1997 at 23:24:37 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Deena
Subject: Re: HOLY EYES!
Message:
Well said, Deena and Anon. By the way, this notion that Marolyn's a counsellor --- really? That's incredible. Where does she work and will she, too, take my money? I wonder if her whole practise isn't offering the kind of help Raja Ji suggested I seek out from some of the Eurotrash guys. Remember? I told him I was confused, to say the least, about his brother, Maharaji's, manoeuvres in the late 70's and on. Raja Ji advised me to see one of these guys who could help smother my curiosity. Is that the kind of counselling Marolyn does?

Or does she counsel people to 'strive for excellence'? Is that it? 'Listen, Deena, I hear you saying you're happy with your little home-based business. But did I ever tell you about my husband? He also had a small family-run operation that he saw great potential in. He ran with it and you know, it really worked. Indeed, he got me didn't he? I might not look like much now but I assure you I was quite a catch for a fat, little teenager in my day. But how did he do it? Ah that's the secret. See Maharaji (my husband) had a goal. You have to have a goal. In his case it was to save the world. He wanted to bring peace to every man, woman and child. Now that's ambition! In your case, you don't have to start so big. What's important, though, all the experts agree, is that you just start. Don't put off until tomorrow what you can do today and, another thing, this is really important -- stay in touch!'

Or maybe Marolyn does past-life regressions. Why not? It's all bullshit anyways, right? Might as well have a little fun with it. On the other hand, maybe you're info's all wrong again Anon (I say again because since I have left the Lord I am riddled with doubt). Maybe Marolyn's become a pet counsellor and is working for the guy who trains Maharaji's dogs. Maybe she's a sex counsellor exploring the ultimate domination games ('me Lord, you Durga Ji'). Maybe she specializes in discrete cousnelling for those Malibuites who, bless their checkered souls, got their money a little dishnoestly and now feel guilty. Maybe she's adept at assuaging their guilt without going so far as advising them to publically confess their duplicity.

Maybe, come to think of it, Marolyn's teaching TM. Yes, the practise is a little more demanding than the current premie regime but, for God's sake, you'd think that her time as a premie would give her some advantage as she tackles Maharishi's relatively rigorous path. For all we know, maybe she's gotten Maharaji enrolled as well. ('Maharaji, hun, I really think you should get a mantra too. This meditation is so pleasing and, besides dear, look at these charts they've got. You want to be a better student, don't you? Honey, I think this will really help.')
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Date: Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 01:19:48 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: HOLY EYES!
Message:
Wait a mo'.
What IF?
I mean.. what if it were true that MJ checks this page and finds it interesting?
I think that to be highly improbable actually. But if he were indeed showing interest, I would consider that to be a positive development actually.
I 'like' to think that he does. Just as I like to believe that Martians are huddled behind the 'Pathfinder' giggling.
I have always thought that MJ is, to a degree, an innocent victim himself of his own past programming and that he may in some way feel a bit trapped by the image of himself that he has unwisely encouraged people to perceive. I say 'unwisely' because I believe wisdom to actually increase with age. Hence, the longer we live the more we regard our former selves as childish,and possibly with some embarrassment. I have just read some letters I wrote in 1975 as a naiive and enthusiastic premie. Now I see how narrow and frankly arrogant my perspective was.
They say youth is arrogant. It's all relative. Maybe Maharaji is reserved about his past for the same embarrassed reasons. Premies often cite that 'Maharaji is actually a really shy guy'.
A sense of shyness is an opposite extreme, but nevertheless a close relation to, a sense of over-importance. Or put bluntly, a sense of Ego.
We all suffer from that syndrome to degrees. Powerful leaders and people with strong public images suffer the most from such duality.
It is hard for Maharaji to confess to having Ego problems himself, having spent the best part of his life claiming to be beyond it's negative influence.
Maharaji may be taking an interest in this site because it is the only place where people dare to question his authority with any enlightening eloquence and commitment. Those who write here may seem to be refreshingly honest sometimes compared to the predictable mindless agreement that must greet him at his every turn. No matter how sincere etc.
If anything can be accorded to this site, I would say that it is that, here alone I have found an united and courageous expression of formerly repressed feelings about 'being a premie'. Nowhere else have people really spoken in such depth and for so long about these issues that they have been struggling with. When in front of Maharaji everyone is polite and respectful to the degree that honesty suffers and, of course, dubious emotions prevail.
I hear Marolyn is a Therapist of sorts now.
Since I heard that, I have entertained a fantasy of running through a print out of these issues with her and hearing her caring response. After all, she must have something POSITIVE to say as a THERAPIST right? I have been thinking about exactly what my gripe is. It is not that MJ drinks , smokes, or copulates with Yaks. That is not my problem.
It is not that he should be run out of town for evading tax or having 500 aeroplanes. It is not, essentially, his behaviour.
My gripe is that by doing what he said and following him extremely carefully, I was led into particularly unpleasant circumstances and influences. Namely the Ashram.
It really was for me the most insufferably boring, heartless and disappointing way to have 'mis-spent' my youth; and my loyalty to him, which was unquestionable, was not reciprocated or appreciated by him at all,as far as I know. I lost out. Even my meditation suffered in the ashram - We were so pushed to raise money etc. that I lived a pleasureless existence as, effectively, an unpaid servant. My trust in him then started to gradually dwindle until now I find myself quite shocked that he feels no human sympathy or understanding of my plight. Obviously I am not alone in that sadness and anger. Those years I dedicated to him are gone forever.
What I am trying to say is that I feel that I made a huge sacrifice, personally, to follow Maharaji and that that was in vain and was misguided.
While those around him now naughtily sip their ciders at his parties and feel blessed to be a part of his ongoing celebrations, I am elsewhere. I am not going to see him because his influence certainly suppressed my intelligence, and my growth. I was in danger of becoming a middle-aged fake. By daring to question the unquestionable, by daring to seek the truth again with a brave heart, I am finally moving on. Will he move on too?
If you are there Maharaji, spare a kind thought for us, who certainly have been your real followers. That is why we speak out here..hoping indeed that you will hear of our pain and will maybe have some respect for our experiences and concern for the effect that you have had on us.
Oh yes. We are still here alright. We will not go away.
I agree with you, Anon, that Maharaj Ji is likely embarrassed about his past, and I also agree that his immense ego does not allow him to be honest about what went on during those "Lord-of-the-Universe" years and why. As far as I know, he simply tries to gloss over that he allowed himself to be worshipped as god for over a decade and demanded total surrender and devotion from the people who sincerely believed in him and tried to follow him.


If he would just 'fess up to that -- if he would just say to the thousands of people like you and me who got chewed up during his confused, adolescent and young adult period, that he was just a kid and didn't know what he was doing, -- that I think could be the beginning of his rehabilitation into someone who might actually have something to contribute to the world. However, without that honesty, and yes, a demonstration of some humility which I have NEVER seen GMJ exhibit, he is always going to have a track record as a lousy guru, and he is never going to be able to obliterate that record because there are too many people like us around to testify to the fact that he set himself up as god and milked it financially for all it was worth.


I also think there was a point when you couldn't excuse his behavior by blaming his youth. There was a point in the late 70s when he was old enough to know what he was doing and made a conscious choice to wear crowns, demand surrender, demand grandiose material things like jetliners, have many feet-kissing sessions -- in short, to play the role of the god-like perfect master.


In my book, he has to address those things honestly and publicly before he can put it all behind him. If he doesn't, those years, and people like us, will haunt him, and be a shadow over however he is packaged for public consumption, for the rest of his life.
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Date: Fri, Jul 4, 1997 at 00:34:14 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Thanks Jerome, sorry Deena, hi Mili, fuc
Message:
Whoever compiled those archive pieces, thanks a lot. Deena, JW, I was going to pick up the video to fedex today but my friends melted down in marital strife and I can't go near their house without a bulletproof vest. Maybe tomorrow.

Today is the first day of the rest of your life!

Or, from Harlan's page:

'May your love go with him, and may his love go with you.'
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Date: Fri, Jul 4, 1997 at 14:34:20 (EDT)
Poster: Deena
Email:
To: Jerome and Jim
Subject: Re: Thanks Jerome, sorry Deena, hi Mili, fuc
Message:
Whoever compiled those archive pieces, thanks a lot. Deena, JW, I was going to pick up the video to fedex today but my friends melted down in marital strife and I can't go near their house without a bulletproof vest. Maybe tomorrow.

Today is the first day of the rest of your life!

Or, from Harlan's page:

'May your love go with him, and may his love go with you.'
Haven't been here in ages but I just checked out the archive digest and I am so impressed, albeit a little embarrassed to see my name so much. Thank you Jerome, whoever you are! It is like a book. I plan to print it and mail it off to an ex-premie friend back east who doesn't have internet access.

Thanks Jim for the effort, I'm sure JW will appreciate it too.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 15:28:24 (EDT)
Poster: Mili
Email: milivoj@geocities.com
To: Everyone
Subject: To Scott, Jim and Anon
Message:
You know, it s so sad and pitiable in a way that instead of enjoying your life to the fullest every day you are living in your delusions and believing them to be true - I suppose that s how M sees you. And it s perhaps better for me to leave you alone to bang your head against the wall until you ve had enough. You really remind me of the story about the dog who was gnawing at a bone until his gums began to bleed. He then resumed gnawing even more furiously. You know, your whole trip is based on a single false premise - that somehow Mji is giving people a raw deal. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Knowledge is true, and he is telling the truth about it. You could just as well try to stop the sun from shining. He is blissing people out, while you are just pissing people off.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 23:41:46 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: To Scott, Jim and Anon
Message:
Fair enough, Mili. Let that be your last word for once and for all. Adios!
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Date: Fri, Jul 4, 1997 at 11:50:05 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: To Scott, Jim and Anon
Message:
Perhaps he brought you bliss Mili, (you know what they say about ignorance...)

Obvioulsy there are a few folks around (myself included), who feel he brought them a certain amount of delusion mixed in with the bliss.

By the way, why did you take down your Maharaji references from the web?

- Scott
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Date: Sat, Jul 5, 1997 at 16:15:43 (EDT)
Poster: ?
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: To Scott, Jim and Anon
Message:
m doesnt see me.
sadness and pity dont help.
the rawness comes from thinking that you are as lucky as the ones around when jesus was there and then realizing that you are wrong. That someone was pretending to be the lord and you invested the bulk of your life dreaming that illusion was right. Delusion is believing in your illusion.
So the best that can be said about maharaji is that he believed in his illusion himself, and that would then qualify him as delusional.
If he is no longer believing that, the music at the events should be different.
He probably IS perfect, but not in the way or for the reasons you think.
Be yourself, and follow your impulses, but this website stuff was inevitable. Maharaji himself provided the ammunition.

Maharaji used to be terrified of people trying to kill him.
That wont happen until he pisses off the religions.
The people on this website wont risk jail for that goal.
But some follower will try and kill us.
Did you feel a murderous rage since finding this website?
I think you are saying yes.
Beliefs are fragile so they need defending.
If someone has complaints about someone I love, do you have a wife? Now you know she complains about you to her sisters and friends. Dont think she doesnt.
She probably complains about you being on the computer so much. And if she doesnt that means she does complain about you because she is happy you are kept busy by the computer.
Are we like serbs to you? or Muslims? OK so maybe maharaji will be the person who helps eliminate some of those other religions, or at least set them way back in numbers. Maybe he has a big role to play. Someone should do something about all those god forsaken religions and if thats his job then maybe that is punishment enough for him.
We can't be blamed for complaining about being on a wild lord chase, or in more international terms, for haveing our hearts and lives ______.
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Date: Wed, Jul 2, 1997 at 16:33:58 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email: sperry2@miraclevision.com
To: Everyone
Subject: The Fallen angels from Paradise
Message:
Dear Forum Participants,
- Why does our forum suddenly seem like a version of the computer 'Hal' as he sings 'Daisy' while the astronaut slowly pulls out his plug in the movie, 2001 a space oddessy? You know, the one where the computer sings, "Daaaaiiiissssssyyyyy, Daaaaiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssssyyyyy."
- It seems that the previously reliable service we have been enjoying for the last several months from Paradise Forums has recently become unacceptably slow. I have contacted the folks over at Paradise and they said, "Hold tight, we're working on it". As to when they'll get it working properly again, your guess is as good as mine. For what it's worth, my guess is they'll probably get it worked out within the next two weeks. Maybe by that time we'll all be over in the Usenet anyways.
- For a few tips on getting ready to participate via the Usenet, please check out my posting below under the JW's "Thankyou Scott" thread. Still, I wish those folks over at Paradise could give us all a bit more 'heavenly' experience of their forum. Personally I think they should rename their service back to Pergatory!

Scott
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Date: Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 19:47:09 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Scott
Subject: Re: The Fallen angels from Paradise
Message:
Hi Scott!

I haven't been around partly BECAUSE of the slowdown - I really can't take the time to wait 40 seconds or more for each message to load.

I did want to congratulate you on the wallpaper, but I guess it doesn't do much good if the doors are creaky and the ceiling leaks, huh?

At any rate - will you be taking the archives with you when you move?

I'll miss you if you stop being the forum captain, by the way. It's great to have a voice of reason keeping the troops in line when there's an uprising.

And (for Jim and JW) just a note about knocking the thought processes of those of us who talk in Premiespeak: Do you really believe what you say? That premies have no brains? That would defeat your whole purpose of arguing here, wouldn't it, since braindead beings really CAN'T think for themselves. I think you're digging yourself an early grave with such slander - and I don't mean it Mili-style.

What I mean is, if I were a browser checking out the site, and I saw the meanness and the insults continuously from one side of the fence, I would bother listening to those shitheads. But maybe that's your point.

If some of my own grey matter is missing, it can be blamed on a steady diet of speed-laced LSD in 1968, sleep deprivation during my college years, and the inevitable shutdown of Now I'm 50. Knowledge (and M) have been instrumental in keeping the geriatric shutdown at bay, if anything.

(Tom, by the way: I did have my 50th birthday recently, but I look early 30s and act mid 20s. So don't stick me in a wheelchair yet!)
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Date: Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 23:39:03 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: The Fallen angels from Paradise
Message:
Hi Scott!

I haven't been around partly BECAUSE of the slowdown - I really can't take the time to wait 40 seconds or more for each message to load.

I did want to congratulate you on the wallpaper, but I guess it doesn't do much good if the doors are creaky and the ceiling leaks, huh?

At any rate - will you be taking the archives with you when you move?

I'll miss you if you stop being the forum captain, by the way. It's great to have a voice of reason keeping the troops in line when there's an uprising.

And (for Jim and JW) just a note about knocking the thought processes of those of us who talk in Premiespeak: Do you really believe what you say? That premies have no brains? That would defeat your whole purpose of arguing here, wouldn't it, since braindead beings really CAN'T think for themselves. I think you're digging yourself an early grave with such slander - and I don't mean it Mili-style.

What I mean is, if I were a browser checking out the site, and I saw the meanness and the insults continuously from one side of the fence, I would bother listening to those shitheads. But maybe that's your point.

If some of my own grey matter is missing, it can be blamed on a steady diet of speed-laced LSD in 1968, sleep deprivation during my college years, and the inevitable shutdown of Now I'm 50. Knowledge (and M) have been instrumental in keeping the geriatric shutdown at bay, if anything.

(Tom, by the way: I did have my 50th birthday recently, but I look early 30s and act mid 20s. So don't stick me in a wheelchair yet!)


OP,

Good to hear from you. Despite the fact that you're all tease.... hey, what can I tell you. I like to flirt.

To extend the analogy: you've seduced me into more than one discussion but, dear girl, I never get past first, okay, second base with you premie types. Hence the frustration.

Someone reading this board would probably ask 'what's up?' If they read any of the correspondence they'd surely understand the frustration us ex's feel. What's your point?
That we should all accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative and don't fuck with Mr. in-between? Tell that to Dave Wiener's family.

Have a nice day! :)
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Date: Fri, Jul 4, 1997 at 01:16:54 (EDT)
Poster: bb
Email:
To: Scott
Subject: Re: The Fallen angels from Paradise
Message:
Hi Scott
op mentioned the archives moveing.
jim once mentioned to op about a girl who donated a million and was unhappy. so op said --i knew that girl once, i will call her up and see if she is unhappy--
and i thought, great, just the intrusion that girl wants.
a phone call reminding her of her million.
Now if the archives go intact to a place that never deletes
them, and is available for my lifetime, the chances of me getting lifelong feedback from many sources is high since my name and address and even phone is there.
Old friends will want to save me and zealots will want to
milify or villify me.
In the coming age of maharajianity, I will be a source of embarrassment to my grandchildren in the midst of the millenium.
When I finally wake up to the gopi in me again i will be having to go to a plastic surgeon to make it through the darshan line.
In the coming age when the wars are being fought between the believers and the nonbelievers, the nonbelievers will name a battalion after me.
Some one will nail my 95 posts to the satsang hall door
like martin luther.
Kindly remove my name and info from the archives before you hand them over. I will pay you cash for your effort.
People get killed for just saying that hanuman probably wasnt a monkey.
That the earth is not the center of the universe.
That allah doesnt care if we bow down 5 times a day.
That I am a catholic in the wrong part of belfast.
That I am a jew in iran.
That somebodies niece might really be thier--oops! I dont want to start that again.
That I am a target in someones eyes eventually.
John Lennon was killed by a guy who was pissed that he said 'the beatles are bigger than god' and then he got more pissed when he said 'imagine there is no heaven, above us only sky' that is the true story.
So please go through the archives carefully before you hand your friends over to an uncareing public.
We trust you and our 1997 environment.
Different years bring different things, my wife works with the state child abuse agency, and thier spokesperson said publicly that---people are vicious---. And I dont disagree.
croatia is down the block.
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Date: Fri, Jul 4, 1997 at 06:17:12 (EDT)
Poster: J Scibener
Email:
To: bb
Subject: Re: The Fallen angels from Paradise
Message:
Ha Ha
Nicely put..and frighteningly true..but relax a bit. I Jerome Scribiner will personally remove your name from the quotes pages I compiled and replace it with the 'nom de plume' of your choice..perhaps one of your former handles such as PORN STAR? Please inform me of your choice asap.
I must insist however, no... beg, that you permit your prior words of wisdom to remain forever preserved therein, unexpurgated for the world to peruse and marvel.
I await your instruction.
Jerome
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Date: Fri, Jul 4, 1997 at 14:10:08 (EDT)
Poster: the former tom
Email:
To: J Scibener
Subject: Re: The Fallen angels from Paradise
Message:
hello jerome
how about ram babu? he was declared anti guru by maharaji in 74 . I fergit the hindi term.
or debbie katz, in honor of the 20 year old who left the ashram during the height of the 1979 almighty lord era
and commited suicide.
Or yeshua. since no one knows who the hell that guy is.
Or maybe -- o dark one-- a nickname i had in miami.
I guess-- claudia-- is out.
banananand ji
how about-- mili--?
not jim, he should have a name change too.
porn star was one of those possibilities that cult life eliminated. coming er i mean getting the knowledge at 21
and moving swiftly to gopi status kept me turning down
many many invitations from men and women alike during those free love seventies and early eighties. I turned down some really stunning looking people. Probably saved me
actually. A lot of them are dead.
probably the comments about the breath should be edited.
God has spent a lot of effort keeping that under wraps.
And that is not about maharaji.
The track record seems to be that any clarity about the lifeforce is removed by lifes own evolution and to advertise
gods location puts us in gods radar screen and I am not interested in catching his eye or 'doing its work' . All the folks involved in god education seem slightly cursed.
I want an era of freedom and I dont want to mess with the power. I will look at the life and go --nice power,easy power, dont crush me power, I'm just interested in appreciating this life and feeling happy and content, I wont mess with you and your madcap ways, Yeshua mentioned in the bible that the devil does not know for whom he works, well call me fresh-mouthed, but I think the devil works for you. That being the case, I dont want to squeak.
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Date: Fri, Jul 4, 1997 at 14:36:13 (EDT)
Poster: you decide
Email:
To: the former tom
Subject: Re: The Fallen angels from Paradise
Message:
As to your question, the porn star posts were not me.
If they were funny I would suspect JW , Brian, mr bag,
anon,the former bill cooper, and the former Jim.
I mentioned anons name once. That should go as well.
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Date: Mon, Jul 7, 1997 at 00:35:27 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: The Fallen angels from Paradise
Message:
Hi Scott!

I haven't been around partly BECAUSE of the slowdown - I really can't take the time to wait 40 seconds or more for each message to load.

I did want to congratulate you on the wallpaper, but I guess it doesn't do much good if the doors are creaky and the ceiling leaks, huh?

At any rate - will you be taking the archives with you when you move?

I'll miss you if you stop being the forum captain, by the way. It's great to have a voice of reason keeping the troops in line when there's an uprising.

And (for Jim and JW) just a note about knocking the thought processes of those of us who talk in Premiespeak: Do you really believe what you say? That premies have no brains? That would defeat your whole purpose of arguing here, wouldn't it, since braindead beings really CAN'T think for themselves. I think you're digging yourself an early grave with such slander - and I don't mean it Mili-style.

What I mean is, if I were a browser checking out the site, and I saw the meanness and the insults continuously from one side of the fence, I would bother listening to those shitheads. But maybe that's your point.

If some of my own grey matter is missing, it can be blamed on a steady diet of speed-laced LSD in 1968, sleep deprivation during my college years, and the inevitable shutdown of Now I'm 50. Knowledge (and M) have been instrumental in keeping the geriatric shutdown at bay, if anything.

(Tom, by the way: I did have my 50th birthday recently, but I look early 30s and act mid 20s. So don't stick me in a wheelchair yet!)


You mischaracterize my statements and create straw men once again, OP. "Premiespeak" and being cult-programmed (in my experience they go hand in hand) have nothing whatsoever to do with the presence or lack of "brains" and I certainly have never contended such. I was once thoroughly programmed in Guru Maharaj Ji's cult and "premiespeak" was my primary language for years, but I had the same set of "brains," (such as they are), then as I do now. I also think premies CAN think for themselves about most things, it's just when it comes to the prefect master that they can have problems. AND if they THINK for themselves about their guru and see the flaws and contradictions, which I think most of them do from time to time, they NEVER SAY what they think out loud. That certainly was the case with me, and that process is what being a programmed cult member is all about.
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Date: Tues, Jul 1, 1997 at 22:10:48 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Maharaji: one 'very, very light man'
Message:
From Harlan's page:

'6-29-97

E-mail: avc@tinet.fut.es

Location: Tarragona, Spain

Comments: I've seen Maharaji in Barcelona, June, 7, this year.
I don't like "gurus" and other stuff like these... but after I'e heard Maharaji,
I'm sure that hi is not a guru: hi is only a good man, a very very light man.
When I heard to him I felt like I was like in heaven... thank you, Maharaji,
and all the people who follows and helps you for give us a little frequency of
touy vibration!

It was a day very special for me.

Thanks to Diana for take me to see him.

"A grat heart is a light heart, and a ligh theart is a lightouse"- Terence Trent D'Arby.'

My prayer: please Maharaji, give me a grat heart so that I can see that you are not a guru. Let me see that you are only a good man, a very, very light man. Please, Maharaji, I don't like gurus but hi is not one. That's why just seeing you, just experiencing a little frequency of your vibration makes me feel like I am in heaven.'
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Date: Wed, Jul 2, 1997 at 05:57:34 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Maharaji: one 'very, very light man'
Message:
From Harlan's page:

'6-29-97

E-mail: avc@tinet.fut.es

Location: Tarragona, Spain

Comments: I've seen Maharaji in Barcelona, June, 7, this year.
I don't like 'gurus' and other stuff like these... but after I'e heard Maharaji,
I'm sure that hi is not a guru: hi is only a good man, a very very light man.
When I heard to him I felt like I was like in heaven... thank you, Maharaji,
and all the people who follows and helps you for give us a little frequency of
touy vibration!

It was a day very special for me.

Thanks to Diana for take me to see him.

'A grat heart is a light heart, and a ligh theart is a lightouse'- Terence Trent D'Arby.'

My prayer: please Maharaji, give me a grat heart so that I can see that you are not a guru. Let me see that you are only a good man, a very, very light man. Please, Maharaji, I don't like gurus but hi is not one. That's why just seeing you, just experiencing a little frequency of your vibration makes me feel like I am in heaven.'


Where would we be without a 'Diana' in our own life? And without a very, very light man to ignore our 'prayer'?

Thankyou, Bill Gates. I know that you're probably not reading this, but you have given me access to 'that truth'.
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Date: Wed, Jul 2, 1997 at 06:48:01 (EDT)
Poster: b
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Maharaji: one 'very, very light man'
Message:
This is pecisely why he will win.
He will evolve and on one hand become more relateable,
while at the same time continue to encourage the illusion that there is more to him than meets the eye.
Brand new people who view him as as a man find themselves praying to him to give them some inside quality.
This will continue after he dies and devout followers will
have his pictures in the crown and some of his more outrageous words as fuel for thier beliefs.
he is in an enourmous amount of countries and I for one
have given up any idea of trying to stop him.
People like to lean on an illusion.
leaning on your breath requires more than people are willing to give even for thier own benefit.
The knowledge will be available for those that want that and the illusion about maharaji will be available for those who want that.
And new wars will start over that.
Those that think he was the lord will do battle with those who dont and life on earth will be just the way the god has had it for a long time. If there is a thousand years of peace it will come only if all agree. Agree on what? Probably not the life force, but the illusion. And in my new acceptance of the way people are, I say the illusion will be that m is lord and that will sweep the earth eventually.
Have a nice day!
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Date: Wed, Jul 2, 1997 at 13:01:53 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: b
Subject: Re: Maharaji: one 'very, very light man'
Message:
This is pecisely why he will win.
He will evolve and on one hand become more relateable,
while at the same time continue to encourage the illusion that there is more to him than meets the eye.
Brand new people who view him as as a man find themselves praying to him to give them some inside quality.
This will continue after he dies and devout followers will
have his pictures in the crown and some of his more outrageous words as fuel for thier beliefs.
he is in an enourmous amount of countries and I for one
have given up any idea of trying to stop him.
People like to lean on an illusion.
leaning on your breath requires more than people are willing to give even for thier own benefit.
The knowledge will be available for those that want that and the illusion about maharaji will be available for those who want that.
And new wars will start over that.
Those that think he was the lord will do battle with those who dont and life on earth will be just the way the god has had it for a long time. If there is a thousand years of peace it will come only if all agree. Agree on what? Probably not the life force, but the illusion. And in my new acceptance of the way people are, I say the illusion will be that m is lord and that will sweep the earth eventually.
Have a nice day!
Tom, "win" what? What will he "win?" I view Maharaj Ji as just an ordinary person who got shoved into, and then took advantage of, a role of a spiritual leader. Do you see him as something other than that?


People have gotten involved with him for a variety of reasons. Being a human being is not always easy and it is always unpredictable. Maharaj Ji promises a certain level of predictability. So do a lot of religions, especially fundamentalism. He offers something that he claims will not change. If people have such fear of the uncertainty and the ambiguity of being human, such that they want badly enough to believe in his simplistic (and deceptive) schtick, well, then I agree, he and many other cult-leaders like him, will continue to have at least some followers (like maybe that guy in Spain), probably even after he dies.


I suppose when he's dead, legends of his supposed spiritual power can really begin, because the reality of his pitiful and selfish existence will not have to be acknowledged, and his followers can inflate their own spiritual egos that way.


Is this what you mean when you say he will "win?' It is hard for me to believe that anything so lacking in any real substance, and because of the way the premies exhibit such self-centeredness and total lack of concern for anyone but themselves and Maharaj Ji, the he will attract very many people. From what I can see, GMJ has a lot fewer follwers, at least in the West, than he had 20 years ago. Despite his and the premies' religious belief that we will all come back to him someday, he is moving in the wrong direction impact-wise from "sweeping the earth."
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Date: Wed, Jul 2, 1997 at 15:27:12 (EDT)
Poster: bee
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Maharaji: one 'very, very light man'
Message:
Hi JW you cool comedian.

Well I agree with you completely.

I see he is not equipped with any good stuff we dont have and he has more bad stuff than i have.
Maybe we have to same amount accessable, but he has
embraced the bad shit a lot more than i could ever bring myself to.

Have you seen a video in very recent years? Some nights
he can really talk and look very impressive.
which is one reason i didnt go to new york. I am not immune to him probably.
I have watched him get more and more close to haveing a
really powerful message and he will hit it and the video will go out all over the world and people will start to see it and the big wave will begin. Tell you what, when people i know start to insist on telling me about an intro video they
claim is really good i will get it and copy it and send it to you .
i wont watch it myself. I want to be free of the influence that twisted me out of shape for so long.
He is not washed up by any means.
Everything I said to people around me didnt effect them a bit as far as i can tell.
They are ignoring my comments about look at the man behind the curtain. Well i am just accepting the way the humans are around me and i know one woman who is an aspirant and she found this website on her own and she told me and i said what do you think and she said--
Oh its just a bunch of people complaining--.
I think she exemplifies the regular person.
with 5 billion people he can get quite a foundation going long before any attention is paid to him.
The new Yorker is a fluke article that will have that new yorker distain laced thruogh it. It isnt going to make a big wave, papers are less likely to freely advertise a cult now that the comet people happened. Just like all the papers ignored him after the jim jones thing happened in 77 or whenever and that was when he had that 3 year crown,mala,large claims,large ashrams,large businesses,era.
Just as 60 minutes was poking around he was closing the ashrams just as they approached some cities in the midwest. And he stopped the other stuff and people magazine looked at him and he sent them a family photo and said his mom said everthing is a-ok. And that is what went into people mag. in the 80's.

He has been lucky, bobmishler was in key west writing his accounts and he had a heart attack, in flying him to miami for medical help the plane crashed and him and his wife and all aboard died. I remember mission bigwigs standing around talking about that it was a warning for the rest of them. I'm not making it up.
In my own resolution I am accepting the humans and thier love of illusions and that i am not determining any future except my own and perhaps those of my kids.
And in that i am glad to come out with a recognition that i can live free of the various god fogs and god is ok with that. I can look it square in the whatever and say--I prefer to just feel my way and if i am going to appreciate anything
it will be the stuff my senses show me and not a pretend relationship with a god that doesnt require any special
human generated add on's.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 09:24:05 (EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: bee
Subject: Re: Maharaji: one 'very, very light man'
Message:
Just wanted to say that having got to grips with your maverick use of grammar and the English language, I really do appreciate the content. I feel quite sympathetic to your current views. I too have found it relatively futile to argue about MJ with believers. However I must add that it is not all doom and gloom when trying to get some clarity on all this. There are a growing number of people who feel that MJs ways are not wholly acceptable and that he needs to be told that. It is the natural thing to warn your friends.
Anon
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Date: Fri, Jul 4, 1997 at 00:33:56 (EDT)
Poster: Tom
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: Maharaji: one 'very, very light man'
Message:
Hello Brainy Brit.

You said he needs to be told that.
Actually thats why I started to use my name some weeks ago because he knows it, and I am sure he pokes around here once in a while.

That way he can see what happens when a gopi falls to earth.
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Date: Tues, Jul 1, 1997 at 16:51:32 (EDT)
Poster: Tom
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: new york event
Message:
I said i would give a report of that event but i didnt go.
I was hoping i could just graduate myself right out but
there are some consistant echo's.
The old music was quite powerful to me but it really is
incredibly devotional and sure of itself.
That is something i certainly was.
I dont understand why people who are so fond of him
hover here unless they want to change.
Change is no picnic at least for me.
Seeing things as they are is a bummer. But better to morph
than be in a painted picture.
Maybe the humans wouldnt be happy with just the real
thing inside and prefer the ideas and perspectives that
religions dispense. All I have been seeing lately is two things, one, everyone seems ok with all thier illusions,
or at least they have thier excuses.
two, if i feel good, i am the sunshine in my day.
and all the things that i see and hear and can do are
marvelous.

And three, the god arena is so pervasive it's hard to just
edit it out of my environment so i have stopped confronting everyones ideas and just hum when it comes my way.
got to go,
Im sure the attendees can follow this thread and report on the event. go for it.
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Date: Tues, Jul 1, 1997 at 22:00:16 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Tom
Subject: Re: new york event
Message:
Speaking of unfulfilled promises (leave me out of this JW), where's that video you were talking about, Tom?

I went out and bought a machine and everything.
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Date: Wed, Jul 2, 1997 at 06:27:05 (EDT)
Poster: Tom
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: new york event
Message:
well, I realized no one needed it.
everyone had firm opinions already and the parts that
interested me probably would be of fleeting interest to others.
I will post the parts that i mainly was interested in.
Also, the medical and prescription bills around here are leaving me with limited extra bucks.
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Date: Tues, Jul 1, 1997 at 12:57:17 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Thank You Scott
Message:
Scott, I wanted to thank you for your thoughtful response to "Mr. Wannabe Censor" as well as for all your hard work in setting up and maintaining this site. I think those efforts mean a lot to quite a few people.


I didn't vote on the new site name, but, for what it's worth, "alt.cult.maharaji" seems appropriate to me.


Finally, I am afraid I am a bit of an internet and computer idiot. Can you explain what is actually happening and with this site and when? I assume this site is going away and a "usenet" site will replace it. Correct?


In the meantime, how do you respond to a post these days? There is not response panel that I can find. Also, will the format stay the same when the move happens? Not to complain, but I agree with Brian that the dowloading has become extremely slow on this site.


Thanks again, Scott. You are a prince of a guy!
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Date: Wed, Jul 2, 1997 at 15:31:32 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Thank You Scott
Message:
Dear JW,
- Yup, going, going, gone! Sometime within the next month this site will be replaced by alt.cult.maharaji. The Usenet works a little bit differently from this site and will take some getting used to, especially if you aren't already familiar with it. I will give everyone at least a one weeks notice before the actual event, along withsome instructions. One thing you might start checking out already is the status of your news server. You can try clicking on this link to see if your news server is operational:

Enter the "test" newsgroup.

- If that didn't work, I would recommend you consider investing in a good news server at $60/year like 'Altopia' at:

Altopia

- As far as the slow forum these days, it seems that there are some unresolved problems over in Paradise. Whether or not they will be resolved in a timely way, I don't know. At any rate, I am simply glad that we are moving to the Usenet when we are.

- As far as doing input, perhaps you aren't scrolling down enough. Also, in case you were interested, there is a way to get rid of the conferencing stuff entirely. Simply click on the "No Conferencing Today" button below.

See ya,
Scott
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Date: Sun, Jul 6, 1997 at 14:56:49 (EDT)
Poster: ALPHA
Email: ALPHARAM@SPRINTMAIL.COM
To: Scott
Subject: Re: Thank You Scott
Message:
Dear JW,
- Yup, going, going, gone! Sometime within the next month this site will be replaced by alt.cult.maharaji. The Usenet works a little bit differently from this site and will take some getting used to, especially if you aren't already familiar with it. I will give everyone at least a one weeks notice before the actual event, along withsome instructions. One thing you might start checking out already is the status of your news server. You can try clicking on this link to see if your news server is operational:

Enter the 'test' newsgroup.

- If that didn't work, I would recommend you consider investing in a good news server at $60/year like 'Altopia' at:

Altopia

- As far as the slow forum these days, it seems that there are some unresolved problems over in Paradise. Whether or not they will be resolved in a timely way, I don't know. At any rate, I am simply glad that we are moving to the Usenet when we are.

- As far as doing input, perhaps you aren't scrolling down enough. Also, in case you were interested, there is a way to get rid of the conferencing stuff entirely. Simply click on the 'No Conferencing Today' button below.

See ya,
Scott

SCOTT,will this newsgroup location be the only place to view your page?will we have to pay,to see and participate?The consenses of the active premies is that the former premies,will burn out soon,and all will be well again,and you trash won't be reflecting badly on the LORD any longer.You only have hate to sustain you,and how can that regurgitation stand up to infinate all powerful,LOVE of the LORD of the intire fucking universe ,THEY AWAIT YOUR CYBER DEATH!my friend,will you die for them?
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Date: Tues, Jul 1, 1997 at 01:44:23 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email: sperry2@miraclevision.com
To: The wanna be censor
Subject: Secret Plans
Message:
Dear Mr. Wannabe Censor,

- Thank you for so clearly illustrating the reason why current premies were not solicited for their votes in deciding the new name of the Usenet group.

- I must admit, I was utterly mistaken about Chris' views about our discussion group, however, it is folks like you who would prefer to censor reality that I try to avoid. I would like to know, you called us 'liars'. That is a pretty major statement you made there my friend. Could you please clarify yourself for the benefit of those who would know the truth? What exactly have we said that makes us liars?

- I understand that you may find some of our discussions in the forum 'unnerving', however, making the assumption that anything that unnerves you must be a lie is a bit presumptuous, don't you think?

- I hate to inform you, but the Internet does not have any 'authorities' standing about, just waiting to snip out anything that smacks of 'unnerviness'. We wouldn't want to 'unnerve' some poor innocent simpleminded soul now would we? No, I'm afraid that censorship is not exactly at the heart of the internet. Our move should be completed fairly soon. I'm afraid that the Internet hails the end of the bookburners my friend. You were simply born about 50 years too late.

- Sincerely,

- Scott


PS: I liked your 'American-Sword-of-Truth' motif, even if you are a Brit.

PPS: The new name is: alt.cult.maharaji.
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Date: Tues, Jul 1, 1997 at 16:41:22 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Scott
Subject: Re: Secret Plans
Message:
Good one Scott. (I was going to add 'nothing like an angry Quaker!' but decided against it. :) )
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