Ex-Premie.Org

Forum I Archive # 8

From: Jun 18, 1997

To: Jul 15, 1997

Page: 3 Of: 5


JW -:- I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP -:- Mon, Jun 30, 1997 at 17:48:15 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP -:- Tues, Jul 1, 1997 at 16:38:27 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP -:- Tues, Jul 1, 1997 at 17:11:33 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP -:- Tues, Jul 1, 1997 at 19:31:21 (EDT)
___Mili -:- Re: I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP -:- Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 18:08:57 (EDT)

URGENT:TO ALL PREMIES -:- SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS -:- Sat, Jun 28, 1997 at 14:11:54 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS -:- Sat, Jun 28, 1997 at 16:31:27 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS -:- Sat, Jun 28, 1997 at 17:20:44 (EDT)
___URGENT:TO ALL PREMIES -:- Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS -:- Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 01:10:18 (EDT)
___Anon -:- Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS -:- Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 09:01:22 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS -:- Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 16:42:35 (EDT)
___Anon -:- Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS -:- Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 19:42:05 (EDT)
___Anon(yes it's a longee) -:- Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS -:- Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 19:46:10 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS -:- Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 19:48:11 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS -:- Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 19:58:25 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS -:- Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 20:00:18 (EDT)
___Jim (short as usual) -:- Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS -:- Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 20:14:30 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS -:- Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 22:33:11 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS -:- Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 23:04:33 (EDT)
___Mili -:- Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS -:- Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 03:04:03 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS -:- Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 23:52:54 (EDT)

jim -:- morning smile: maharaji goes amish -:- Fri, Jun 27, 1997 at 11:33:58 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: morning smile: maharaji goes amish -:- Fri, Jun 27, 1997 at 23:51:05 (EDT)

Son Of Deena -:- If Maharaji.... -:- Fri, Jun 27, 1997 at 00:46:10 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: If Maharaji.... -:- Fri, Jun 27, 1997 at 06:38:56 (EDT)
___Michael -:- Re: If Maharaji.... -:- Fri, Jun 27, 1997 at 18:17:23 (EDT)
___Jesus -:- Re: If Maharaji.... -:- Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 20:49:22 (EDT)

Brian -:- IT'S BROKE, SCOTT!! -:- Thurs, Jun 26, 1997 at 21:20:09 (EDT)
___Bobby -:- Re: IT'S BROKE, SCOTT!! -:- Thurs, Jun 26, 1997 at 21:55:02 (EDT)

JW -:- Profound Words of the Guru -:- Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 16:43:40 (EDT)
___grasping minds wanna know -:- Re: Profound Words of the Guru -:- Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 17:00:54 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Profound Words of the Guru -:- Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 19:49:12 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: Profound Words of the Guru -:- Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 20:44:08 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: Profound Words of the Guru -:- Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 20:51:07 (EDT)
___words of wisdom -:- Re: Profound Words of the Guru -:- Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 21:09:02 (EDT)
___Richard M. Nixon -:- Re: Profound Words of the Guru -:- Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 21:17:54 (EDT)
___dead poet society -:- Re: Profound Words of the Guru -:- Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 21:53:12 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Profound Words of the Guru -:- Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 23:18:58 (EDT)
___Michael -:- Re: Profound Words of the Guru -:- Wed, Jun 25, 1997 at 00:26:29 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: Profound Words of the Guru -:- Wed, Jun 25, 1997 at 03:40:21 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Profound Words of the Guru -:- Wed, Jun 25, 1997 at 20:08:00 (EDT)

Bobby -:- MJ in NYC June 30 -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 16:34:28 (EDT)
___tom -:- Re: MJ in NYC June 30 -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 19:27:50 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: MJ in NYC June 30 -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 20:56:21 (EDT)
___bobby -:- Re: MJ in NYC June 30 -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 21:03:43 (EDT)
___bobby -:- Re: MJ in NYC June 30 -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 21:06:26 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: MJ in NYC June 30 -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 21:17:28 (EDT)
___bobby -:- Re: MJ in NYC June 30 -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 21:22:14 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: MJ in NYC June 30 -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 21:26:15 (EDT)
___Anon -:- Re: MJ in NYC June 30 -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 21:28:29 (EDT)
___Anon -:- Re: MJ in NYC June 30 -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 21:32:39 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: MJ in NYC June 30 -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 21:49:17 (EDT)
___Anon -:- Re: MJ in NYC June 30 -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 22:40:28 (EDT)

C'mon Dad, -:- Give me a break -:- Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 08:35:56 (EDT)


Date: Mon, Jun 30, 1997 at 17:48:15 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP
Message:
Now listen,I am being honest here. I am not making this stuff up. Here is another quote from the Perfect Master of our time in that book of poetry he wrote. It's the one with all the blank space and all the pictures of clouds in it. Warning: don't eat before reading this, vomiting may ensue. Here goes:
"I have never been betrayed by the part of me that dances, but the part that cries sometimes calls for my attention, even when I find no reason." [The parallel drawn between being "betrayed" by the part that dances and getting "calls" from the part that cries is not explained. But I concur that he is often unable to find any "reason." Maybe that is why part of him cries. But, continuing on and bordered by gray clouds, Maharaj Ji says:]



Every day and every moment, I either make space for the dancer or collect tissues for the weeper." [Again, I did NOT make this up.]


"It is difficult because so much is going on. Sometimes you [Now it's "you" and not "I". Is he still talking about himself?] can only make enough space for a toe(?) to be there [To be there?" Maharaj Ji always did replace nouns with adverbs, it's a lot easier and a lot more vague that way.], but even in that [the ever-present "that"] space, the dancer will manage to dance because there is such sincerity, such humility and love."


"I do not understand why the dancer wants to dance, why the crier wants to cry, or why both of them are within me. [Multiple Personality Disorder, maybe?] I do not understand why everything is not as simple as it really is. [Again, what a brilliant statement.] I know the dancer in me is real." [How about the fraud in him -- does he know that's real too?]


Has anyone else seen this book? Has Maharaj Ji asked that is be destroyed? For his own sake, he should. With his millions, certainly he could afford an editor, right? That he would actually publish something so stupid is clearly a sign of an ego so out of control that he apparently lacks much of any self-consciousness whatsoever. And that the premies would lap this drivel up, when anyone else would throw it out as unreadable crap, is a sign of a high level of cult programming. But that is only my opinion, and, as you know, I am just part of a bunch of negative, vindictive people and shouldn't be acknowledged.
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Date: Tues, Jul 1, 1997 at 16:38:27 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP
Message:
JW, Thank you for demonstrating how much of a poopoo head Maharaji is. But who can we share this with? The world sees it as too obvious and the other premies -- the ones we really want to get because we just can't stomach the idea of Maharaji getting away with this idiocy -- don't see it.

I was at a wedding last week with a premie from 1971. Phil Bowlesby, if you must know. Quiet, easy-going, nicest guy in the world. He said he was going to San Francisco this weekend to see 'his spiritual master.' We started talking. He told me nothing could change his mind, it's Maharaji forever. I asked him how he'd react if Maharaji admitted he was fake. Wouldn't matter. I reminded him how proud we all were of being 'seekers of truth' so long ago. He got my point. Still didn't matter. 'Jim, I've been doing this for 25 years!' Good point, I guess.

I reminded him of some of the premie casualties we both knew. I told him about my friend, Dave Wiener, who hung himself when he started doubting Maharaji was God and blamed his evil mind -- blamed it to death. He said that was Dave's fault. I got pissed off.

'What if a doctor told your friend he was going to die in a month from cancer and your friend killed himself AND the doctor turned out being not only wrong but not even a doctor? What if it was all a scam? What responsibility would he have for your friend's death?'

'None' said Bowlesby. He smiled and I smiled back. I realized I needed help. Maybe Maharaji should sell little pocket electronic translators: Premiespeak to English and vice versa.
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Date: Tues, Jul 1, 1997 at 17:11:33 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP
Message:
Jim, I'm not so sure that ALL the premies out there "don't see it." I think many of them, deep down, know Maharaj Ji is a fraud, but they have invested so much of their lives into him (some the majority of their adult lives like your friend at the wedding) that they will fight like the devil not to admit that to anyone else. But, for many premies, I believe these things nevertheless, sink in there somewhere and it may come to the surface later.


The other audience is made up of people who might consider getting involved with the guru. Obvious statements by people who have followed him are so valuable for those people to have. I wish I had had it.


To tell you the truth, I don't think GMJ will ever crash and burn, unless some MAJOR scandal develops. Rather, I think he will just fade into obscurity, which, in my opinion, he is already in the process of doing. Even most of the people who continue to follow him do so in the most peripheral of ways. They go to programs mainly to see their friends and have a brief bliss-out session and then go home and forget the whole thing. That is the way it appears to me. As time goes on, in my opinion, that will probably wane as well as more and more people just fall away, and fewer and fewer new people get involved. I think a site like this can help keep the number of people who might get involved with him very low.


I agree it's difficult to talk with a premie when their "premie-speak" is so irrational. But are you surprised? Maharaj Ji can't even speak in complete sentences, nor say much of anything except to make references to "that love," that place," "that there," "that experience," "that connection," etc., etc., etc., so how could we expect premies to make any more sense than their ignorant master?
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Date: Tues, Jul 1, 1997 at 19:31:21 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP
Message:
JW, you're right. No argument. But isn't it fun to pretend these guys think and talk just like people?
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Date: Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 18:08:57 (EDT)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP
Message:
Now listen,I am being honest here. I am not making this stuff up. Here is another quote from the Perfect Master of our time in that book of poetry he wrote. It's the one with all the blank space and all the pictures of clouds in it. Warning: don't eat before reading this, vomiting may ensue. Here goes:
'I have never been betrayed by the part of me that dances, but the part that cries sometimes calls for my attention, even when I find no reason.' [The parallel drawn between being 'betrayed' by the part that dances and getting 'calls' from the part that cries is not explained. But I concur that he is often unable to find any 'reason.' Maybe that is why part of him cries. But, continuing on and bordered by gray clouds, Maharaj Ji says:]



Every day and every moment, I either make space for the dancer or collect tissues for the weeper.' [Again, I did NOT make this up.]


'It is difficult because so much is going on. Sometimes you [Now it's 'you' and not 'I'. Is he still talking about himself?] can only make enough space for a toe(?) to be there [To be there?' Maharaj Ji always did replace nouns with adverbs, it's a lot easier and a lot more vague that way.], but even in that [the ever-present 'that'] space, the dancer will manage to dance because there is such sincerity, such humility and love.'


'I do not understand why the dancer wants to dance, why the crier wants to cry, or why both of them are within me. [Multiple Personality Disorder, maybe?] I do not understand why everything is not as simple as it really is. [Again, what a brilliant statement.] I know the dancer in me is real.' [How about the fraud in him -- does he know that's real too?]


Has anyone else seen this book? Has Maharaj Ji asked that is be destroyed? For his own sake, he should. With his millions, certainly he could afford an editor, right? That he would actually publish something so stupid is clearly a sign of an ego so out of control that he apparently lacks much of any self-consciousness whatsoever. And that the premies would lap this drivel up, when anyone else would throw it out as unreadable crap, is a sign of a high level of cult programming. But that is only my opinion, and, as you know, I am just part of a bunch of negative, vindictive people and shouldn't be acknowledged.
You sure do a bad parody of Jim's parody, JW.
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Date: Sat, Jun 28, 1997 at 14:11:54 (EDT)
Poster: URGENT:TO ALL PREMIES
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS
Message:
We've Just been tipped off by a traitor with a conscience!

Scott Perry and his heinous minions have been quietly planning to move their forum to a high-profile usenet site dedicated against Maharaji. This is their secret info page at http://miraclevision.com/maharaji/info.htm.

Let's all do the decent thing and inform the usenet authorities of the libelous rantings they've been perpetrating for the last few months and see if we can put a stop to this nonsense once and for all!

These creeps have been moaning on and on about openness and honesty! Now we see this hypocrisy for what it is! The game's up, you digusting liars.


The Usenet Move Info Page
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Choosing a New Newsgroup Name
In Usenet
-----------------------------------------------------------------
To visit the current forum, click on visit:
Current Forum

-----------------------------------------------------------------
- In case you might have been wondering about the future prospects for our forum, my plans are to move it over to the Usenet with our own unique Usenet group name, within the next month.

- There are several advantages to this:

Rather than depending solely upon any one single individual, the forum will then become a publicly supported endeavor.

Archiving and cataloging will then be done by servers like DejaNews and ReferenceCom. These free archive services are quite popular and certainly more widely searched by the general public than my private URL.


It looks likely that I will eventually be able to rewrite the web site for those who aren't into newsgroup servers so that it can display a DejaNews query to look essentially like what you see now, only reading the stuff off of the Usenet.

Redone as such, the forum page would look essentially as it does now in its most recent incarnation, except that instead of looking in the top panel and seeing there the forum index of threaded entries, you would see in the same place the threaded results of a preset Deja News query that would look essentially the same.

I will be able to take a break.

For those who do have good news servers, it will still be possible to utilize the new forum interface with the conference status panel by simply resizing their news-server window to sit just above the conference room status panel while they are posting to the news group.

- As always when change is involved, there will probably be some disadvantages to this:


For those who access via Deja News or Reference Com, new postings will be delayed by up to 24 hours.

For those who access via news servers, (usually packaged in with most internet account packages), the timelyness and thoroughness, (some messages may get lost occasionally), of their service will depend upon the quality of the news-server they use.

- Regardless of the problems involved, I will be shutting down the forum service on my site within the month in any event, so consider the fact that having a place to meet on the Usenet is better than having no place at all.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The Need for Confidentiality

- Due to the fact that any adverse posts over in the news.groups Usenet group can be very detrimental to the formation of a new newsgroup, please don't talk about this move over in the forum. Current premies like Chris or Mili could easily mount smear campaigns against this move.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Let's get the definitions straight....

- Just so you know what I'm talking about further on down, our new Usenet name will be comprised of three basic parts: the top level hierarchy, the prefix, and the suffix. It will look like this:
top-hierarchy.prefix.suffix.

Why the "alt.*" Top Level Hierarchy?
- After doing a fair amount of research into just how to get us into the Usenet, this is what I came up with. It turns out that most aspiring new groups these days start out in the "alt.*" to level heirarchy. Trying to start out in any other hierarchy is not recommended. That settles that question. (By the way, appropriately enough alt supposedly stands for: "Anarchists, Lunatics, & Terrorists".) Now for the name after the "alt.*" part....

How Were These Five Name Choices Arrived At?
- After discussions with others who have started newsgroups, with a member of the 'group-mentor' program over on the Usenet, and after several hours of research into the subject of newsgroup creation, the five newsgroup naming options I have listed below are what I consider to be the five best and most viable options we have for a group name.
- I apologize if none of the five options may seem to meet with your complete satisfaction. If this may be your position, please simply vote for the selections that you find to be the 'least unsatisfactory' of the available selections. I hope you will bear with this process as it is the best that I can come up with with the limited amount of time and resources I have available to undertake this.

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Choosing a Good Prefix
- On the attached ballot there three possible prefix choices listed. Here are our two choices:


1.alt.cult.*: This would place us under an already existing prefix currently shared by only two other "pro-cult" groups. The "Rocky Horror Picture Show" (RHPS) cult freaks, and the Nudists. The main arguments in favor of this placement, to date are: a.) It's a simple name to remember, and b.) maybe having such wild neighbors would act to stir up more current premies to participate, and c.) maybe you have nudist or RHPS leanings, who knows?

- The main arguments against it, to date are: a.) By choosing to place our group in a category now only inhabited by pro-cultist groups, could we be confusing the issues? b.) Why not start a new prefix for anti-cultists, especially considering the fact that there is no such place on the Usenet right now? c.) Perhaps some may not be comfortable with the use of the term 'cult' at all.

2.alt.cult-watch.*: This would create an all new prefix designed specifically for anti-cult group discussions. Currently there is no such top level gathering point for these types of discussions or newsgroups anywhere on the Usenet. The main argument in favor, (my argument), is: Why not start a precedent that other cult watchers might follow? Currently, anti-cult types of discussions on the Usenet are split between the alt.religion and alt.support prefixes. Neither of these places seem to me to be entirely appropriate. By creating a new top level prefix clearly dedicated to anti-cult discussions, former cultists from other cults might be more encouraged to create their own groups and to place them under this new top level prefix. This might serve to add to the strength and general momentum of the overall anti-cult debate on the Usenet. The main arguments against it so far are: a.) It is unecessarily long, b.) not spicy enough, and c.) Not comfortable with the term 'cult'.

3.alt.religion.*: This prefix would place us under another pre-existing hierarchy. We would have as neighbors here, the Methodists, the Scientologists, Krishna folks, etc.. The arguments so far for this name are: a.) It fits within an existing hierarchy, something that Usenet administrators like. b.) The choice of such a name shows clearly that we believe, contrary to M.'s claims, that M.'s teachings amount to a religion. To date, the main argument against it it is: a.) By mixing ourselves in with many mainstream religions, could we be muffling any anti-cult message some might wish to send.

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Choosing A Good Suffix

- Now for the suffix: The two choices that have been proposed here are:

1.*.maharaji
and

2.*.maharaji-forum

- The argument for "*.maharaji" is that it is simpler.
- The argument for "*.maharaji-forum" is that it might provide a sort of "bridge of familiarity" for all of those who make the transition from the old forum to the Usenet. By using a similar name here, we might possibly be serving notice to anyone who might remember the old forum, that this is essentially the same group.
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The voting process:

- By clicking on the "Cast your vote" ballot link below, you can submit your vote for your naming preferences here. All votes will be tallied at the end of one week, ending June 28. Which ever name preferences recieve the highest number of votes will automatically be used for our new newsgroup name. In the event of any ties, in order to make the Usenet group name application process as streamlined as possible, the prefix or suffix that matches the suffix or prefix on the current application, (current prefix is cult-watch, current suffix is maharaji-forum) will be used. You might find it beneficial to check out the Mini-Forum below to see if anyone else has any good thoughts or imput worth considering before you cast your vote about this.

- Once this process has been completed, I will again call upon you for your input and support one last time regarding this process. I will ask if you might be able to post 'support letters' over in the alt.config newsgroup in order to bolster our proposal. Over there, without at least three or four letters of support from different authors, many group proposals don't fly.

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A "Mini Forum About the Usenet Move:

- After plowing through all of this, and hopefully after filling out a ballot, just in case you might have any further comments or points you might want to discuss about all of this, I have also set up a temporary "Mini-Forum" in which to discuss the proposed move in a place removed from the prying eyes of the current premies.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Here Are the Links:

To cast your vote, click on:
Cast Your Vote.

To review the votes, click on:
Review Votes.

To go to the Mini Forum About the Usenet Move, click on:
Go to the Mini-Forum.
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Date: Sat, Jun 28, 1997 at 16:31:27 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: URGENT:TO ALL PEMIES
Subject: Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS
Message:
Ah, what would I give for a traitor with a conscience! Who are you, Paul Revere, and why do you think it so important to stop people from talking about the Lord of the Universe? Are you jsut having trouble figuring out what title to vote for? Yeah, I know the feeling. Personally, I like alt.fat.ugly.slimy.fraud but it really is personal, isn't it?
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Date: Sat, Jun 28, 1997 at 17:20:44 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email: brian@worldnetoh.com
To: Jim
Subject: Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS
Message:
As one of Scott's Minions, I like the usenet idea. The software at pergatory isn't cutting it. Miraclevision and t-bird are holding up okay, but pergatory sends if and when it feels like it.

Speaking of which: SCOTT! DO YOU EVEN READ THESE POSTS? The problem is persisting. Some index loads drop as low as 33 bytes/sec! Hello??? Send me email if you're there.
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Date: Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 01:10:18 (EDT)
Poster: URGENT:TO ALL PREMIES
Email: SwordofTruth@WhiteHouse.net.us
To: Jim
Subject: Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS
Message:
Ah, what would I give for a traitor with a conscience! Who are you, Paul Revere, and why do you think it so important to stop people from talking about the Lord of the Universe? Are you jsut having trouble figuring out what title to vote for? Yeah, I know the feeling. Personally, I like alt.fat.ugly.slimy.fraud but it really is personal, isn't it?

Paul Revere? How dare you sir! You labor in vain! Unlike you, I cannot tell a lie. My name is George Washingtion. As for the usenet name, how about alt.pathetic.bongos?
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Date: Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 09:01:22 (EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: YOU SIR ARE AN IDIOT
Subject: Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS
Message:
We've Just been tipped off by a traitor with a conscience!

Scott Perry and his heinous minions have been quietly planning to move their forum to a high-profile usenet site dedicated against Maharaji.
This is their secret info page at http://miraclevision.com/maharaji/info.htm.
Let's all do the decent thing and inform the usenet authorities of the libelous rantings they've been perpetrating for the last few months and see if we can put a stop to this nonsense once and for all!

These creeps have been moaning on and on about openness and honesty! Now we see this hypocrisy for what it is! The game's up, you digusting liars.




Now wait a minute !
Calm down!
I don t think you have to worry about the 'digusting lies' here (come to think of it, what particular disgusting lies ?) neither do I think that you should be troubled by libellous comments.
If, as you suggest, there are truly libellous lies being perpetrated here then why don t the offended parties sue the disgusting liars and clear their names? Or at least offer some sensible attempt to clarify the truth of the matter. (which I believe does happen on the forum occasionally)

Certainly one may sensibly expect there to be a mixture of truth and lies in such a proposed public forum. So what. The truth will hopefully out. People can make up their own minds.
Some people (possibly with the exception of your society) actually have retained the capacity to make reasonable discriminations in such commonly encountered arenas of debate.


Have you read a tabloid Newspaper lately?
This is not a new sinister phenomenon. Is is called Freedom of Speech.
You would accuse this particular motely crew of perpetrating Yellow Journalism I suppose.
Well, in their defence I would say that for years Cartoonists and Columnists have mercilessly conjectured and caricatured famous persons of all sorts and society has justly allowed them to do so.
Good luck to them!
More often than not, it is through their provocative (and often financially motivated, though sometimes morally too) publications that attention is drawn to the far more disgusting lies and crimes of those whom they pillory.


Maharaji may well prefer to shy away from such facts of life pleading his right to privacy but it seems inevitable that such attentions will eventually turn to him.
Is not Maharaji a widely known man whose teaching affect the lives of many?
As such, is it inappropriate that within our society his activities should be publically known?
The precious and serious tone which you and others adopt (when attempting some form of clumsy moral objection to what is no more than a healthy open discussion ) betrays the desperation with which you seek to hide the activities (whether honourable or dishonourable) of Maharaji and premies.


What is so hypocritical about Scott privately engineering (plotting as you would have it) the launch of this PUBLIC newsgroup?
Just as you and Maharaji may reasonably gather yourselves for your defence in private, so may he and others of his opinion gather themselves similarly.

The point is that it is not Scott who is hypocritically refusing to stick his neck out in public over this. He merely seeks through his private meetings to prevent the public discussion from being sabotaged by , guess whom?
Yes, it is actually you and Maharaji who seek to sabotage the public discussion.
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Date: Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 16:42:35 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS
Message:
Anon,

My name was mentioned as one person who might possibly sabotage Scott's efforts.
What was the basis for this? None.
I find this forum useful and have no desire to sabotage it.

And why should Maharaji want to sabotage it?
What basis is there for your claim? None.
It is simply your own speculation.

When Scott first posted the 'news' of Maharaji being in jail in Nigeria I wrote him an email about it.
What I said was that he should check his facts because he would hurt his own credibility by posting false information.

People should be able to express any of their opinions.
I have a different viewpoint than many people who post here.
But, I have NEVER said that any postings should be censored.
I have never put any energy into disrupting this forum.
From feedback I get I find that some people like what I say and some people don't like what I say.

False information posted for mischievious reasons by anybody of any viewpoint will most likely reap a due reward.

As long as people of various viewpoints are allowed to contribute, sufficient evidence will be presented to allow a glimmer of truth to shine through the chaos.

Chris
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Date: Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 19:42:05 (EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS
Message:
I agree
I don't consider you to be the 'enemy'at all and I personally would not have mentioned your name at all. I actually felt a bit offended at that myself, however scott is quite justified in my opinion in undertaking a clandestine approach to precipitate the launch of this Newsgroup thing. If that's whAat it takes.
I personally applaud your presence on this forum and don't put you in the category of totally brainwashed 'Fatwa'raging person.
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Date: Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 19:46:10 (EDT)
Poster: Anon(yes it's a longee)
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS
Message:
Er..excuse me but I am sick of people carping on about the mythical vacuousness of the Internet.

According to a contributor to Harlan s page:

- Maharaji has mentioned the nothingness he finds on the web.... All this cybernothingness would be of incredible value if you (Maharaji) used it to communicate with us.

I also recall OP s recounting that Maharaji said:

- The internet: as the source of yet another of humankind's great hopes for salvation. If you can't get the answers in other aspects of your life, maybe the internet will bring about world peace. But basically, the info superhighway is just another traffic jam.

and my response was (expletives now deleted) -

Who says the Internet is one of humankind's great hopes for salvation?? Who says 'If you can't get the answers in other aspects of your life, maybe the internet will bring about world peace.
Ok so it's a traffic jam. So what? Do I get the impression someone doesn't approve of the Internet?
Yes, well that got my goat a bit....

So what exactly is MJ s gripe with the Information Highway ?
Does his disapproving tone on the matter stem partly from the adverse publicity that he is now subjected to by virtue of this recent technology?
From my reaction to OP s post you may gather that I consider his reference to the Internet's current traffic limitations a desperately impotent criticism and to suggest that it is one of humankinds hopes for salvation is a gross exaggeration which he presumably made up for effect.
I have never heard anyone deify the Internet in such terms (and yes I have read Bill Gates book!)
I feel that the Internet is of considerable value to man and I consider these objections to be an example of classic luddism.
An initial resistance to a new and inevitable technology.
He may just as well say that any development that man comes up with to improve his lot on earth is Another great hope for Salvation . That is rather an arrogant and sweeping put down of the achievements of the human race.
Why be so negative?
What would he have us all do? Return to the Stone Age? Even then they made their progresses in communication.
Moreover he talks constantly about the technological gadgets he himself uses , enjoys and plays with.
It is thanks to the sum of the intelligence of those (us collectively) whom he puts down that these things are available today to make all of our lives more comfortable and bearable.
It is the march of technology that has released the likes of him from trudging about Indian villages informing peasants with his particular Hope for Salvation.
How can one be, on the one hand, an advocate for video publications, learning and modern technology in general and yet be so tritely dismissive of this breakthrough in communications. I dare to suppose that it could be because the Internet champions Free Speech that he finds it rather worrying.
Regrettably the simple conclusion (that it is tempting to draw) is that he seeks partly to distract his followers from hearing the controversies that rage about him on sites such as this.
Not being one who historically receives personal criticism with particularly good wit, one supposes that he may mistrust the Internet for the rebel forces that lurk there. Their vocal and often bitter opposition threatens to impede or even disrail the onward progression of his hitherto low profile Love Train (which is so all important to him and premies)
Horrified followers cry Heretics! all the louder as those few aggrieved ex-prems venture into these new waters excited at the newfound loudness of their voices.

How petty all this is in the grand scheme of things!
What lack of foresight and what arrogance must possess MJ and his followers for not having long ago accepted that their prized privacy will be inevitably and soon be finally and forever disrupted by the unforgiving eye of public scrutiny and global media.
Soon, we are told, Television will become interactive and enjoined to the Internet. Good television programs are enormously expensive to produce and are often highly informative and inspirational. Take for instance Sir David Attenborough s nature programmes (which Maharaji apparently admires ). Now, almost anyone can publish anything they want via the Net to an enormous global audience. All for a relatively small outlay. I have personally discovered an almost endless amount of excellent sites which are informative and useful.
I guess you find what you are seeking and in my case I have found many wonderful and educational Websites.
For instance there are Nasa s Astronomy sites, The Hubble pictures, The Galileo project (exploring Jupiter), art galleries galore, online books, constant news reports from around the planet, technical help lines, FAQ s, Software sites, Update sites, online medical assistance (Virtual Hospitals), welcoming personal homepages, education resources, history resources, Music resources, philosophy resources, in fact endless resources for anything you care to imagine. Don t tell me MJ doesn t subscribe to this. I bet he has people constantly downloading music software demos, updaters for his daughters computerised recording studio, information on the latest Gulfstream computer system developments etc. etc.
I don t think that this world is altogether the bad evil place Maharaji bemoans and belittles so relentlessly in order to emphasise the value of his alternate world. I am trying to work with it, not against it, and may I take this opportunity to suggest that others try not to fear and reject the world as it is today just because it is easier to bury ones head in that anaesthetic world of denial as it appears we premies have done for so long.
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Date: Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 19:48:11 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS
Message:
Chris, you've got a point -- I think -- when you say you've never fought the process. Perhaps, if you had a moment to look at yourself a little clearer, you'd see that you've undermined it quite a bit, much a s a cow that sits in traffic disrupts it. Sorry, I don't mean to be rude. I'm just talking about your tendency to ignore or avoid the pith of questions. But, that's another complaint. You're familiar with it by now and seem to be happy with your behaviour. So be it.
The only people here who have expressed any satisfaction in your comments are Maharaji apologists. We know their dilemna -- your dilemna: Maharaji's made a fool of himself.

Beyond that, I wonder how you can say this:

'And why should Maharaji want to sabotage it?
What basis is there for your claim? None.
It is simply your own speculation.'

with a straight face. I had an argument about you on the chat board the other day. Someone said you were stupid. I said no, just 'premiestupid.' Know what I mean?
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Date: Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 19:58:25 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: URGENT:TO ALL PREMIES
Subject: Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS
Message:
Assuming you're not George Washington, you're a liar, but then that's obvious. So forget it. Call yourself what you wish. But tell me, dear friend, why, if our 'pathetic, bongo' labor is 'in vain', there's any URGENCY in stopping it?

Let me put it this way. I doremember the occasional 'bongo' as we called them. Crazy premies, prone to disrupt satsang or stink up the satsang hall or something. What I remember is the smug bemusement we enjoyed at their expense. They certainly triggered no sense of alarm such as yours. What gives? Is it possible that you're a little afraid that people might actually enjoy the twenty-five year shaggy dog story called Maharaji? Is that it? Chill out, friend, meditate a bit. After all, Maharaji can look after himself. He can lift up the whole world and turn us blue. Right? Relax, George.
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Date: Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 20:00:18 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: URGENT:TO ALL PREMIES
Subject: Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS
Message:
Assuming you're not George Washington, you're a liar, but then that's obvious. So forget it. Call yourself what you wish. But tell me, dear friend, why, if our 'pathetic, bongo' labor is 'in vain', there's any URGENCY in stopping it?

Let me put it this way. I doremember the occasional 'bongo' as we called them. Crazy premies, prone to disrupt satsang or stink up the satsang hall or something. What I remember is the smug bemusement we enjoyed at their expense. They certainly triggered no sense of alarm such as yours. What gives? Is it possible that you're a little afraid that people might actually enjoy the twenty-five year shaggy dog story called Maharaji? Is that it? Chill out, friend, meditate a bit. After all, Maharaji can look after himself. He can lift up the whole world and turn us blue. Right? Relax, George.
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Date: Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 20:14:30 (EDT)
Poster: Jim (short as usual)
Email:
To: Anon (yes it's a longee)
Subject: Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS
Message:
Anon,
Thanks so much for your typically well-said view with which, by the way, I totally concur. One bad side-effect of avoiding critical thinking and/or criticism and/or honesty is side-splitting hypocrisy. Maharaji, premies, take note!

As for the Internet's benefits, I agree with all you've cited. Certainly there are so many more. For example, Persian Kitty's Adult Lynx, to name but one.
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Date: Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 22:33:11 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Anon(yes it's a longee)
Subject: Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS
Message:
Anon,

I do use the Internet as you well know but if you want to see some varied viewpoints on its value and issues take a look at the following:

'Silicon Snake Oil' by Clifford Stoll

'Data Smog' by David Shenk
The back cover of this book also has some interesting comments by a few well known people. Check it out in a bookstore and then let me know what you think.

You may be jumping to conclusions too quickly on Ms perspective on the Net.

CD - Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer
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Date: Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 23:04:33 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS
Message:
Jim,

I am not sure if you could recognize a Disruptive Cow
if you saw one in the middle of the road.

Sorry for what ? You enjoy being rude.
I'm not apologizing for anybody. You have a bit of catching up to do.

When I find a talking ass I will set him up as your mascot.

CD
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Date: Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 03:04:03 (EDT)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Scott
Subject: Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS
Message:
Some friends told me that you were mentioning me as a potential threat to the ever-mutating degeneration of your travesty of a site. Let me tell you that I've lost interest in your trip long ago. That's what it is - it is just your trip, and it's really true that you only reap what you sow.
Or, in Croatia we say, 'You are going to eat your own crap eventually.' Man, you are so off the wall that it's hard to believe it. You are so dry and lifeless you reek of death. Your site brings images of necktie people in drab suits - lawyers? No, an undertakers' convention. If anhedonia is a symptom of mental disease, your site exemplifies it. It's such a drag, man. Instead of speaking of the vast positive potential of enjoying life and the real facts about Maharaji, you cling to lies and misinterpretations, a smear campaign if there ever was one - if this site is a reflection of you, you belong in a graveyard, man. Jim's putrid daily ejaculations of pus embelish the most absurd Internet pages that I've ever seen. At best it is just proof that there is absolutely no obligation for anyone to follow Maharaji. You can get back to the rut of your life anytime.
You know - all you ex's are really caught in a retarded group think. It all comes down to passing comments like the two grumpy old spectators in the balcony in the Muppet show. But, eventually, you will have to face your life (and death) alone.
Since there is talk of books here, try re-reading Hesse's Siddartha and Steppenwolf. Jonathan Livingston Seagull by Richard Bach is a classic, no?
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Date: Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 23:52:54 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: SCOTT'S SECRET PLANS
Message:
Mili,

PLEASE DON'T STOP POSTING HERE! When I read your citation of Jonathan Livingston Seagull I almost fell over laughing. This is richer than anything. Yes, you're right, life without following a fat little fraud artist who once claimed to be Lord of the Universe and the Saviour of Mankind, come with more power than ever before, blah, blah, blah, is drab indeed. How dull the work-a-day world must have seemed to the Heaven's Gaters too, huh?

Jonothan Livingston Seagull? How about Big Bird on Main Street?
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Date: Fri, Jun 27, 1997 at 11:33:58 (EDT)
Poster: jim
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: morning smile: maharaji goes amish
Message:
from harlan's page:

'6-26-97

E-mail: handwerk@barepower.net

Location: San Pedro, CA

Comments: Maharaji has mentioned the nothingness he finds on the web.
Like many of you I have searched the web in vain for Maharaji, knowledge,
elan vital etc etc and am very happy to find this site. As a mom with young
children I am often isolated and needing inspiration. Knowledge itself
and the connection and love and adoration that comes from it should be enough
but these past ten or so years I find myself wishing for more contact with other
premies. It helps me practice when I am in touch with you guys. Maharaji, if
you ever read this message I love you with all my being. Thank you so much for
everything. All this cybernothingness would be of incredible value if you used
it to communicate with us.'
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Date: Fri, Jun 27, 1997 at 23:51:05 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: jim
Subject: Re: morning smile: maharaji goes amish
Message:
M has admitted that he always has the latest computer brochures on his desk.

Jim,
Here is a good book for you:
'Labyrinths of Reason" by William Poundstone

CD
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Date: Fri, Jun 27, 1997 at 00:46:10 (EDT)
Poster: Son Of Deena
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: If Maharaji....
Message:
If Maharaji were any real Perfect Master, he would be perfect.

To prove to the world that he really has the message of peace and love and knowledge, he shouldn't make people pay money for flying and driving to his programs. He should have his own plane company, maybe call it 'Maharaji Airlines' and he should FOR FREE fly anybody who wants to listen to his message, out to Austrailia or wherever the programs are going to be. He should have Hotels where people can stay for free, just an added bonus for listening to the message of the 'Heart'.

My mom hasn't been here lately. She's been too busy driving her new car. A 96' Subaru Legacy. And after years of following a cult leader, she has a Legacy going on right now.

Today something reminded us of Maharaji and my mom called him a 'Pudgy Little Fuck-Face'. So everybody, she's doing okay. In fact, since she left MJ and started driving a fancy car like Fuck Face does, she has never felt better. She has never felt more free! She just read this and says 'My my my, what a lot of anger my son has after being brought up in a cult family.'

Regards to all the ex-Fuck-face-followers,

Son of Deena (lol)
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Date: Fri, Jun 27, 1997 at 06:38:56 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Son Of Deena
Subject: Re: If Maharaji....
Message:
Tell your mom 'Hi' for me. And tell her that she has a potty mouth too :)
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Date: Fri, Jun 27, 1997 at 18:17:23 (EDT)
Poster: Michael
Email:
To: Son of Deena
Subject: Re: If Maharaji....
Message:
I'm glad that your mom is enjoying her car and life in general, but I think that a fine Christian boy should expand his vocabulary a bit. :-)
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Date: Sun, Jun 29, 1997 at 20:49:22 (EDT)
Poster: Jesus
Email:
To: Michael
Subject: Re: If Maharaji....
Message:
Don't be so fockin' condescending to ma boeeeeii...you sanctimoious fock yoo
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Date: Thurs, Jun 26, 1997 at 21:20:09 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Scott
Subject: IT'S BROKE, SCOTT!!
Message:
What's happening with this page, Scott? The index of posts takes for-freaking-ever to load. It's been dragging through the net at less than 100 bytes per second on an average.

Are you being SYN flooded, or what?
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Date: Thurs, Jun 26, 1997 at 21:55:02 (EDT)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: IT'S BROKE, SCOTT!!
Message:
Twas after them "brother russell" links and "jesus smokes chesterfields."

Fun stuff.
Wonder if there's any connection?

What does "SYN flooded" mean?
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Date: Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 16:43:40 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Profound Words of the Guru
Message:
I've been out of town for awhile, but my travels enabled me to ask a friend who has access to these things to look up some of the more simplistic, inane platitudes that Guru Maharaj Ji lets fly from the depth of his divine wisdom from time to time, and which the premies slurp up as fast as he slings them.


She supplied me with a book of poetry written by Guru Maharaj Ji. It's a book that would be a proud addition to any of our nation's better nursery schools. It has lots and lots of white space and pictures of clouds apparently photographed from airplanes. My favorite line was apparently considered so profound that it merited its own page (with lots of white space and pictures of clouds). Its depth and mystical wisdom is astounding:


"New growth can start right from the beginning." (huh?) [I am so moved I must go dedicate my life to a guru who could say such a thing. Although unintelligible and lacking any sense whatsoever, it certainly has a hidden meaning, and if I were more surrendered to Guru Maharaj Ji, it would be both clear and inspiring to me.]


My second favorite line must be mentioned for its the high level of intelligence it demonstrates:


"I do not understand why everything is not as simple as it really is." (Duh! How could anyone get away with even saying anything so stupid, let alone PRINTING it in a book and expecting anyone to buy and/or read it? It's even more amazing that anyone actually WOULD buy and/or read it.)


Third runner-up:


"In life there are no divisions." [Just what the hell does that mean?]


And then there are the following other gems:


"We try to contain life, but it [life?] does not work. Life wants to flow."(?!!??!)


and:


"Stop for a minute, take a few steps from the "ongoings"(sic) of your life and question what is happening." [Ooooooooo; very impressive.]


And then there is this profound and deep poem the guru wrote:


Sail me.


Take me across the ocean.
I want to hear what you have to say.
I want to see you.


I am here.
[Oh, REALLY?]


How this guy manages to keep any followers whatsoever is beyond me. And how this guy could be so entirely devoid of objectivity so that he has no idea how vacuous this divel sounds, such that he would publish this stuff in a book, is also beyond me. This guy is truly out of touch.
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Date: Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 17:00:54 (EDT)
Poster: grasping minds wanna know
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Profound Words of the Guru
Message:
Form is no other than emptiness, emptiness no other than form. Form is exactly emptiness,
emptiness exactly form. Sensation, conception, discrimination, awareness are likewise like this.
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Date: Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 19:49:12 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: grasping minds wanna know
Subject: Re: Profound Words of the Guru
Message:
Water
is
like
a liquid
which
flows to the river
of love
within inside
and without
love
is like a dream
which
awakens the soul
in the night of light and darkness.

I wrote this but it's inspired by my former guru.
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Date: Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 20:44:08 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Profound Words of the Guru
Message:
Water
is
like
a liquid
which
flows to the river
of love
within inside
and without
love
is like a dream
which
awakens the soul
in the night of light and darkness.

I wrote this but it's inspired by my former guru.
Hmmm... maybe just needs a bridge is all...
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Date: Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 20:51:07 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Profound Words of the Guru
Message:
JW! Welcome back, you voice of sanity you! Where'd ya get the comic book anyway? Lots of Divine Cloudiness, huh? And pictures of it too!
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Date: Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 21:09:02 (EDT)
Poster: words of wisdom
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Profound Words of the Guru
Message:
BEAVER: Gee, there's something wrong with just about everything, isn't there Dad?

WARD: Just about, Beav.

LEAVE IT TO BEAVER
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Date: Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 21:17:54 (EDT)
Poster: Richard M. Nixon
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Profound Words of the Guru
Message:
Your mind must always go, even while you're shaking hands and going through all the maneuvers. I developed the ability long ago to do one thing while thinking another.

RICHARD M. NIXON
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Date: Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 21:53:12 (EDT)
Poster: dead poet society
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Profound Words of the Guru
Message:
Your favorite line starts a section that contains the best lines in the book.

If you could see your own movie, you would learn so much.
You would learn to be true to the truest thing within.
You would learn that in the times you felt free, nobody gave you your freedom---The freedom emanated from inside.
How wonderful were those moments in your life when you were aware.There were no differences---only joy and a gentle gratitude that flowed from you.Not to anything or for anyone.
It was an infectious gratitude that,like a sweet scent,filled the air.
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Date: Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 23:18:58 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Profound Words of the Guru
Message:
Jim says: I wrote this but it's inspired by my former guru.

Sounds more like the result of Canadian whiskey to me.

CD
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Date: Wed, Jun 25, 1997 at 00:26:29 (EDT)
Poster: Michael
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Profound Words of the Guru
Message:
I'm still reflecting on that thing about "a child's face can say so much, especially the mouth part of the face."
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Date: Wed, Jun 25, 1997 at 03:40:21 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Profound Words of the Guru
Message:
JW! Welcome back, you voice of sanity you! Where'd ya get the comic book anyway? Lots of Divine Cloudiness, huh? And pictures of it too!
It is a very amusing book, one that every ex-premie should look at if he or she EVER has even the slightest question as to whether Maharaj Ji is anything more than a fraud who is in the slow reading group. A friend let me look at a copy of it, but I couldn't get her to let me have it, even for awhile, because it doesn't actually belong to her and if the owners knew the purposes for which I would use it, and who gave it to me ... well, she would get in trouble with them.


Geez, it's all so complicated you know. All I can say is that "I do not understand why everything is not as simple as it really is."
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Date: Wed, Jun 25, 1997 at 20:08:00 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Profound Words of the Guru
Message:
Anyone familiar with Joe Frank? He's an often brilliant radio playwright who's surreal monologues, plays and stories were one of the dearest things I left behind in Santa Monica. In fact I think he's still on KCRW.

Joe once did this long play called 'tales of the city' or something like that. It was about this guy who falls into this cult that worships electricity. The cult leader gives occasional soothing talks from his chair on top of some cliff. He says nothing but he says it so mellifluously, well that's the joke. All nostalgia, maudlin bathos, false dignity, mock profundity. Maharaji-like.
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 16:34:28 (EDT)
Poster: Bobby
Email: bobby@ptd.net
To: Everyone
Subject: MJ in NYC June 30
Message:
Anybody going to the New York program June 30th. I think I'll be there with Heather and my bud Raymondo. Ain't seen ol' MJ in at least 10-12 years.

Looking forward to meeting old friends.
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 19:27:50 (EDT)
Poster: tom
Email:
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: MJ in NYC June 30
Message:
I'll be the one with the sunglasses cause security will be on the lookout for me.
dont think that this site isnt watched.
and Im somewhat famous even to maharaji and I have been putting my name in full here Tom
and address.
I will give a report.
wear a budda shirt and I'll know it's you.
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 20:56:21 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: MJ in NYC June 30
Message:
Anybody going to the New York program June 30th. I think I'll be there with Heather and my bud Raymondo. Ain't seen ol' MJ in at least 10-12 years.

Looking forward to meeting old friends.

I'll be there too. We can finally see each other - I'll try to bring that picture I told you about - I think you'd like it, even if you aren't into M any more.
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 21:03:43 (EDT)
Poster: bobby
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: MJ in NYC June 30
Message:
Yes, I'll be on the lookout for you. You can recognize me thusly:

View Picture

I'll have a shirt on though.
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 21:06:26 (EDT)
Poster: bobby
Email:
To: bobby
Subject: Re: MJ in NYC June 30
Message:
Hmmmm......
didn't quite morph into this plane of existence.
I'll try again....

View Picture
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 21:17:28 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: bobby
Subject: Re: MJ in NYC June 30
Message:
Thanks. I thought it was my lousy version of netscape and my out-of-memory computer that wouldn't reveal the image.

I'll e-mail you to let you know where I'll be.

Nice to see there's been some brain-and-beyond activity on this forum - today's the first day I've peeked in in more than a week. But I can't load the archives, because of my lousy version of netscape and my low-memory computer (provided by the grace of the company I'm working for). So I have no idea of the previous battles that have been fought while I was away.
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 21:22:14 (EDT)
Poster: bobby
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: MJ in NYC June 30
Message:
Seems as if it was relatively quiet for awhile, aside from some relatively small flare-ups.

I've only checked in occasionally. Doesn't take too long around here for the shit to hit the fan.
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 21:26:15 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: tom
Subject: Re: MJ in NYC June 30
Message:
I'll be the one with the sunglasses cause security will be on the lookout for me.
dont think that this site isnt watched.
and Im somewhat famous even to maharaji and I have been putting my name in full here Tom
and address.
I will give a report.
wear a budda shirt and I'll know it's you.

Don't pride yourself too highly. Jim's much more (in)famous. Now HE'D really have to wear dark glasses. But if he didn't, maybe M would finally answer his questions...

Didn't you say - a while ago - you had something to tell me? I didn't get anything. Or maybe that's what you had to tell me?

Take care...

(don't misinterpret that last line, Jim - it's not a threat, rather a gentle and friendly way of farewell)
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 21:28:29 (EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: bobby
Subject: Re: MJ in NYC June 30
Message:
You can recognize me thusly:
Hey Bobby,
I'll recognize you easily without your shirt on!
- Anon
Hi OP!
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 21:32:39 (EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: anyone
Subject: Re: MJ in NYC June 30
Message:
I'm in the conference room! Join me anyone?
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 21:49:17 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: MJ in NYC June 30
Message:
I'm in the conference room! Join me anyone?


I can't get in because I don't have a Java enabled browser. And I'm too tired to go look for one and download it. Mebbe some other time.
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 22:40:28 (EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: MJ in NYC June 30
Message:
I'm in the conference room! Join me anyone?

I can't get in because I don't have a Java enabled browser. And I'm too tired to go look for one and download it. Mebbe some other time.
Hey! it's fun.. I just chatted to Brian. It's worth getting the right browser actually! I'm tired too now I'm going to get some sleep.
We'll talk one day.
Anon
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Date: Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 08:35:56 (EDT)
Poster: C'mon Dad,
Email: what a pal
To: child abuse hotline
Subject: Give me a break
Message:
Anon was discussing his father and I thought he was lucky. His father talked to him and probably had lots of experiences together.
I felt a little bit lost looking back on what I had.
But then I realized that of course there is always someone that has is worse and even the son of god had it rough if I am to believe everyones view of what happened to him.

Here he is the son of god for crying out loud and he had to come and die for our sins. He had to die so his father would forgive us. Before I will forgive my confused creatures I will kill my own son.
Surely we got the picture wrong.
And then to add insult to injury, in all the movies about jesus(Jeshua) the character Jeshua has distant,spaced out eyes and acts like he can barely stand to be here and is just enduring his time here cause his father made him do it.
He has a job to do. And when it's quitting time then he will cheer up.
Its sunday morning and I had to channel surf to find cartoons for the kids. All the local wanna-be messiah helpers are in full swing.
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