Drop the brahmin stuff.

there already is a power so dont pretend you are any closer to it than anyone.

You stop seeing others as lesser humans. We are all equal. you are cursed and you are doing it to yourself. We dont need your selfish illusion handed to us as a package deal with knowledge. Will you ever grow up enough to lose your self absorbtion? The more you cling the more inevitable another big hit is . If you want to play revealer of knowledge the responsibility to fly right comes with it Already you have abused your opportunities in your life and death is hovering. Why dont you fully wake up? Its not like climbing mt everest. Its not grafting on humility for a few minutes. Its doing what you need to do and not making excuses. Thanks a lot for taking so long.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

FAQ

- Scott
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

'just to stop, to stop this nonsense, this game, this russian roulette you play with your head all day long
Do you know what it is like to live in sewage?
I did not live in sewage but I got mighty close to it.
I mean, ohhh, it's, horrible,horrible, the stench, the dirt, the filth, EVERWHERE. It is horrible, and believe me I know you are afraid of sewage, andyou should be.
But, there is another kind of sewage that I know of.
Because sewage, actually, left alone, can sort itself out.
But the human sewage of the mind, there is no bacteria
for it.
The sewage, can be thrown in the ocean,so far it is not in giant quantities, if may be able to perculate and filter itself out. But the human sewage of the mind, there is no ocean that can take that.
Human sewage can be thrown in rivers and it will carry it away. But, the mental sewage, there is no river that will carry it, there is no bacteria that will eat it, there is no leach field that will clean it.
And what is it? That anger, that fear, that doubt, that darkness that the human being is constantly plagued by,
and has placed himself in that place.
To doubt, to doubt where there can be clarity, where there should be clarity, my god, talk about the ultimate sin, here is one.
Where there should be clarity, where there should be light, there resides darkness, now thats a crime, where there should be joy, there is sadness, where there should be clarity, there is doubt.
Where there should be love, there is hate, where the person, should be embracing the moment called now, the person is stuck in yesterday, Where the person should be free, the person is caged, imprisoned.
You know, the bars made out of metal can be cut. And thus a prisoner can escape from a prison, but the bars, of the anger, and the fear, and the doubt, and the darkness,
there is no blade manmade that will cut it.
And it is the prison of the worst kind.
Where there should be conciousness and conciousness has no place.
I'm talking about life, the promise, the possibility in this garden to have spring forever.
I'm talking about to be fulfilled and to know, not just believe, you are fulfilled. Not somebody comes along and says now you are happy, but to be happy because you
ARE happy. Not because somebody comes along and says now you dont have any doubts, but to not have any
doubts because you are SATURATED with clarity.
This is how life should be, and this is how lifecan be, and this is how life MUST be! And do you know why?
Because we are human beings, We are alive, THESE are the gifts that were given to us, by the very thing that put us on the face of the earth.
I cannot ask you to do something that you cannot do,
I cannot ask myself to something that I cannot do,
But to accept the joy in my life has to my priority.
That much, I know.
That much, I understand, I have nnnooooo problem with that, none.
What will be will be. Can I be afraid? Oh yeah, I can paint
a picture for myself that can be frightening.

There is a simple feeling in me that is perfect, It is simple.
When I am in that one place within, I rest, I become me, I become whole, I begin to be in awe of life. My whole world becomes real and I begin to be in awe of each breath I take within me
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

So those are my options, huh? Either be soooooo saturated with clarity or suffocate in the sewage of my doubts. Hmmmmm, can a I think about it for a few days?
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

By the way, it's refreshing to see Maharaji use a dictionary for a change. Last time I looked he'd defined 'sincerity' as 'having no doubts'. When you fuck with the language you fuck with the software. N'est-ce pas?

So how come you guys aren't tuning in to the newsgroup instead of this hoary old thing? The only posts there so far are mine and some junk mail. But you know Tom, you're not going to be able to change your tag each time you log in. Does that stifle your creativity a bit, you decidedly 'poetic' ex-premie, you? Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah!
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

'I am seeking photographs of the Guru Maharaji for an article in an upcoming issue. Anyone with information please call me at (212)536-5813.
Thanks.
Caroline Howard'
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

alt.cult.maharaji

What I had to do was email my server and ask them to add it. It took them about a minute.

Thanks again Scott
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Over at the new alt.cult.maharaji group, it's only been really running for one day and already there are a number of new voices over there.

One Mrs. Verity Brooks who recently "saw the light", real light that is, about M. after 23 years of illusion as one of the sheep of his fold. One new current premie who may or may not stick around. and two or three other new names I've never seen over here. (Also ther is the unfortunate odd piece of graffitti that comes in from bulk advertisers over there!) Different place over there.

By the way, I've changed the link to Altopia on the FAQ. Check it out via the link below for help on getting to the new discussion group.

- Scott

PS: Four more days and counting for the ole Forum.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Any idea why I can't read Verity's post? Is this what you're talking about when you say not all posts on usenet make it to all servers? Is that why I should bite the bullet and get this Altopia thing?
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Any idea why I can't read Verity's post? Is this what you're talking about when you say not all posts on usenet make it to all servers? Is that why I should bite the bullet and get this Altopia thing?
Jim,
- Yup, exactly.... My guess is that the "mad-hacker" may have struck again and sent out one of his "low-grade" erase commands to erase Verity's message. If you subscribe to Altopia, at least for the first few months, their high grade anti-hacker software will protect from that sort of thing. Using Altopia, I'm already able to read 29 messages over at alt.cult.maharaji. How many does your news server show?

- Scott
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

So what effect did that have? Well, those of us that bought it grew to hate ourselves. Any natural talents, characterstics, intelligence, emotions, relationships -- they were all suspect. All along, this asshole's telling us that we should keep settling for nothing in thisworld, not when Maharaji had something so much better for us. We spat out the food we might have enjoyed because he tricked our gullible little minds into trusting that he had something so much better for us. In the process we almost starved.

If complete renunciation, absolute surrender (whatever the fuck that means) and tough, extreme guru-devotee stuff is not what he believes in (let alone true) he owes one major apology to everyone who bought that program.

By the way, did you guys get my email? I sent out a little teaser to a bunch of the guru-lovers on Harlan's page. The only response I've gotten so far was from the guy who once posted this brilliant observation:

' The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face.'

He replied and I wrote back as follows:

'get me your fucking mailing list asshole,

You mean "get me off your fucking mailing list asshole" don't you, brother? Relax, consider this just another piece of unsolicited email.
Sure, I won't contact you again. Perhaps you should avoid the New Yorker this month as well.

Your brother in his love,

Jim
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

I think you're right that the "motivation" behind MJ's more unsavory behaviors is a key issue. To use your parent/child analogy,if a parent punishes a child, either with physical pain, like spanking, or, probabaly more common, with psychological intimidation, out of love and in an effort to protect the child from harm, that might be appropriate. But what happens probably more often is that the parent is punishing/abusing the child at least partly for his or her own needs, because of his or her own frustrations, shame, hurt, etc. That kind of abuse creates humiliation and shame in a child and is very damaging.

Because, I think, MJ verbally and sometimes physically attacked his devotees, not out of concern for them, but because of his own deficiencies and frustrations, that constitutes abuse and it produces the self-hatred that Jim described so well in his post. The abuse was also possible because, I, in trying to surrender to him like he instructed, was essentially vulnerable to him as a child is to a parent, even though I was an adult at the time. My psychological state in relationship to him was essentially as a child.

Really, I'm not trying to sound too much like John Bradshaw here (who I think might like to be a guru himself, but nevertheless has a lot of helpful things to say), but the psychological damage that MJ has caused people flows, I think, from his own psychological problems. And who wouldn't have psychological problems living and being treated the way he has been, growing up with no "check" on his ever-expanding ego because everyone around him considered him perfect and would never question anything he did (except maybe his mother and he dumped her), and essentially also remaining psychologically as a child, but without the limits placed on a child and a child needs. [And we all know how cruel and destructive children can be to other people and small animals, now don't we.]

Frankly, I doubt MJ has ever grown out of his immature and childish mindset. If he had, we might have heard at least some recognition from a more mature state that what he did as a child was unwise and harmful. And so, his anger and frustration just below (and sometimes above) the surface continues because he is truncated as a person, lashing out at his followers, the world, etc. as the cause of his frustrations, instead of looking at himself and seeing himself for what he really is.

But I'm not really surprised he hasn't done much self-examination and has turned to rage and to alcohol instead, because that examination for him would be very, very, very, painful and confronting.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Jim
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Bill was okay. A nice enough guy really but too serious. You know the type. Real boy scout. Nervous, excellent servous. Put a lot of us to shame. Made a lot of us think that if that's devotion maybe we didn't really want it. Othersie kind of alright guy. A bit pompous in his fervent zeal. Hey, life's complicated....

Anyways, I now hear Bill's called 'Sparky' and is, like your firned Chris I guess, a fixture in the garage. He's been rewarded with what we all wanted: no life. Deena told me about him.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

- Shri Hans comes to him saying, "Pali, (or whatever nickname he used to have for M.), Pali, your screwing up you know. Why did you have to give Nanna, (or whatever nickname they used to have for Mata Ji), such a hard time? You know you really were mean and disrespectful to her? Besides, I thought we were going to have world peace by now and you were going to be pretty much running things down there by now. What happened?"

- "I'm sorry Babba, (or whatever nickname M. used to have for Shri Hans). You never told me about the things that would happen when I met Marilyn. I saw her and wow! Next thing you know we eloped and Nanna was on my case and you know, things just sort of went on a momentum of their own. As far as world peace, it's not my fault if the world isn't smart enough to recognize a perfect master when they see one."

- Babba says, "But look at you, your about fifty pounds over weight, you ruined Raju's, (or whatever nickname they used to have for Raja Ji), marriage with Claudia when you did you-know-what with her, you've got an alcohol problem and now I just read all about you and these things in the World Wide Web! Pali, you are really messing up!"
- Pali says, "Babba, you know that this job is really no fun. Everyone drools all over you but no one really understands you. You're alone, the only perfect person with all of these idiots running around you all day who you have to pretend to be polite to. You never told me what a drag all of this would be. Why just the other day my lawyer told me there was nothing he could do about those a------- over on the web trying to mess with me. What an idiot. I think I'll get another lawyer. Besides, I'm going to send all of those liars over on the web to roast' when they die. Here I gave them this most perfect gift and this is the gratitude they show. When I ascend' to heaven and join you as the Co- Perfect Master up there, I'll make sure that they all get sent to hades forever, don't worry, those b-------! "Before all of that, I still know how to take care of them down here. I have told all of my premies that those demons over on the web are pure mind, plain and simple. No one listens to them anyways. After all, why do you think they call it the 'WEB'? They'll give up over there when they realize no one is listening to their lies. Meanwhile, I'll just take another drink to help me put up with all of these crazy idiots and demons you have sent me here to save."

- Babba says, "OK Pali, I know you're doing the best you know how. It's not all a bed of roses you know. Don't give up the faith. Good bye now."

- A plausible night mare?
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Also, do you have any other details as to what he has actually said/done that reinforce your vies? What was that about when he denigrated "volunteers," for example?
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Anyway, shri hans has a lot to be responsible for.
If I light a fuse to dynamite then die, dont I have to suffer the consequenses of the after death explosion?
If his name was saint Jim and not saint pete I know I would get a favorable hearing.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

But in that same vein, I recently received a message from an ex-premie friend of mine who listened to one of his satsangs on tape (or whatever it is he calls it now and I don't know what posessed her to do it) and she had the following comment:

"I actually listened to a tape of him giving satsang in Australia recently... He starts out for about half an hour retailing his adventures getting a landing permit from various governments (how fascinating, we should all have such problems) then launches into his usual spiel about the purpose of our life, etc. What he's saying isn't actually that off-the-wall, it's the tone he uses. He has this holier-than-thou, I'm-god-and-you're-not-you-idiots contempt in his voice that I find just totally obnoxious and unbearable. It's like he's irritated about something, and I don't know if it's because he has to do what he does for a living and is frustrated, or he just doesn't like us. Anyhow,...just thought you'd like to know that I actually listened this dumb thing all the way through. He's so condescending and his voice still sounds high-pitched and squeaky.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

I can also recall him yelling in satsangs over the years. Sometimes premies were the target of his rage. [You know, that we hadn't surrendered yet or we listened to our minds, etc.] Other times it was the "people of the world", or human beings in general. He also used to bitch about how crowded places were (like, I recall, Disneyland and LAX and that they were getting more crowded, or that, heaven forbid, he might have to debase himself and talk to another passenger on an airplane.] It was like he was really pissed off that he had to cope with ANY of the inconveniences or irritations of being a normal human being. But when you are one of his programmed cult devotees, you don't see it as some kind of defect in the guy, you suspend your normal judgments and believe that whatever he is doing/saying is perfect, and any insights to the contrary are just evidence of your lack of understanding.

I remember him really screaming at program in Denver in the late 70s. I remember this because my brother, who received knowledge in 1975 came to the program and was so turned off at how insulting Maharaj Ji was that he left the cult for good, much to my disappointment at the time. At that program I remember Maharaj Ji was really put out about the stage and said the stage looked like "a toilet" and really attacked the people of the world for not recognizing the perfect master (aka him). I remember feeling pretty freaked out after his satsangs, like I was really an unworthy devotee. I never, of course, considered that he was probably just acting out his own insecurity/psychological/substance abuse problems and that it really had nothing to do with the rest of us.

If you read The Guru Papers, the authors say that this rage comes when the guru realizes that he really isn't some divine being and also realizes he is NOT going to bring peace to the whole world and that makes him a little cross. He then usually demands more devotion and grandiose material stuff (like airplanes) from his followers to help fortify his ego that he really is somebody important. I think Guru Maharaj Ji's behavior fits that scenario perfectly.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

- Scott
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Scott
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

- When accessing a message from the main forum page, don't do the normal mouse-click routine: that is, don't simply 'left-click' on the message link to open it up. Instead, 'right-click' on it and then type the letter 'N' for 'open link in New window. When you are ready to back to the list of links on the forum, you can simply click on the 'X' box in the upper right corner. That will close the 'forum-message-box' and you should then see the main forum page there instantly, without having to wait for it to reload. A great savings in time.

- As for the planned move to Usenet. If all goes well, we should be over there before the ticker at the bottom of this page expires. (Within 7 days.)
- How will you find the discussion once it has moved? No problem. By pointing your browser to the same old 'Forum-URL' as before, you will be able to access the new Usenet group, compliments of Deja News. Sometime later today I will set up an FAQ (frequently asked questions), trying to answer some of the finer points about the Usenet move. I'll post a link to the FAQ here in this forum.

- I should be done with the archive in the next hour or so, I'll put up a notice when it's ready.

Scott
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Scott
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

But best of all, thousands of years of the lord manifesting there has left thier culture in a really divine state.
If you are born there you are either brahmin(the top dogs)
or one of three other groups of people that are bound by thier caste to certain restrictions and insults.
Nowhere else in the world are people so tightly bound in the illusion that we are not all totally equal as in india.

Naturally, the rawat family is brahmin.
I first met Bhole Ji (the ji is for op)
at the hall where he was practising with his band at the millenium festival. Being the aspirant, I was innocent , and he looked at me and I looked at him. Our eyes met and stayed locked,I guess he was trying to stare me down because the next thing I hear is that he wants the people that just came in to leave because they didn't show him proper respect. Typical brahmin shit I guess.

At the festival, I am dancing with a couple of 'sisters'
in the back during the music part and security came and said Bal bagwan Ji (again, for op) didnt want anyone dancing. Well, I didnt stop and they said 'dont you want to
to follow his agya?' and I said no. I guess brahmins dont dance either. Serves them right. I guess JW isnt brahmin material.

I guess you cant expect someone coming from that environment to be the one to save the world from the worst fog of all, the fog of illusion that we are not all totally equal.
Everybody sees the differences.
Everywhere god goes, the wake is people left with differences. Different god related ways of looking at god,
Different rituals, different days to worship, and then it's time for a war. Then it's time to have a splinter group, then it's time for my conformation(that is not misspelled).

So the track record is really overwhelming that this is the way god likes it. Maharaji is classic
He is right on the money(hmmm). He will be the the next big thing. Hey! I dont direct the show! Dont you be pissed at me too. I've already qualified as a target for the
future death squad.
It's been 5000 years, India is due for another major shake up. But since maharaji is still willing to blast the closest servants, that means the caste system is probably safe for
now. Unless he himself sees the need to see the god in all
of the fellow humans, and have the inner resolve to feel love inside and share only that, well, what am I doing?
dreaming the impossible.
If I had my way, I would make maharaji trust in the feeling
and love everything and go against gods wishes by just happily spread this knowledge and come away from the dark stuff once and for all. There is such a need as there always has been. I am going to stop this nonsense,
god is the one with the track record and my thoughts about it dont mean anything to the power. If we are aggrieved at gods ways, well, we aren't the first. If you think maharaji
isn't part of that whole reasoning, why the hell is he the one with the knowledge? I dont get it.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Remember that M dropped the Ji family a long time ago too. Also remember that they dropped him for marrying a "servant" (for those uninitiated in the Indian tradition, M's mother had NOT been initiated when she married Shri Hans - it would not be seemly in the Indian way for a devotee to marry the master. She could become a devotee [read servant] only AFTER she was already his mistress.)

As far as using 'Ji' as a suffix of respect, that can be done whenever you want to. For anyone.

But what has been gnawing at me all evening is exactly what you write about - the differences. The separation.

As long as you feel the separation, there is the illusion of great differences. (apologies to Deena, who likes her new, fast car) I can't get into the differences. What M taught me, continues to teach me, is that there is no separation. Only in Peter Pan does the shadow become unstuck and have to be sewn back on. In all other universes, the shadow is part and parcel of the being, unless there's no light and thus no shadow.

Am I being esoteric, Jim? Analogies are part of my thought process. They grow in me like weeds. There I go again.

Part of the beauty of it all is that M IS growing - not always the way we would choose him to - he may not say the words the way you wish he would (>Hey! I don't direct the show!< you say)

As for me, I'm still amazed. Amazed because there grows in me a sense of wonder and of love that I can't explain away, because every day another miracle jumps out at me from behind its most recent hiding place. And amazed because there you are (collectively), not seeing it and I'm not blaming you, but I wonder (in another sense) why you can't - or won't.

The only thing that hits me with a heavy wallop are the deaths some of you speak about. As for lost youth - I spent a lot of mine in a Lower East Side / California / Europe treck that included everything from homelessness to psychedelics to opiates. I could spend my life regretting THAT. But I have this ingrained motherspeak that keeps shouting back to my consciousness: 'Don't Cry Over Spilled Milk!' - and so I don't.

And then - I know a lot of people who have died. All walks of life, all reasons. It hurts that people let themselves be dragged down so much they chose to exit life, no matter what the circumstance - ashram, cancer, bad driving skills, poor love connections. If I dwell on that, I'll live my life depressed, and it won't have anything to do with M or knowledge that I spend my life in that state.

My overblown 'superego' - to get freudian about it - wants to fix it all. Not only for the ones who died, but for all of those who mourn for them. And their families. I have no solution for this, and I doubt M does either, on an emotional level.

So perhaps I am 'shelf-ish' - I choose to live linked to a consciousness that transcends the separation from the body. I can feel a very intense suffering for those who reached an impasse in life they couldn't cross (I HAVE come close to it myself) - but I can't allow myself to get wrapped up in their web.

And also I have experienced M in states of extreme compassion. Doing for others what I've never seen ANYONE else do. I still insist that not one of us - and now I'm not putting up a wall you/I; I really mean not one of us - can see the total picture.

Tom, Rumi was neither angry nor disappointed when he spoke to his master. He was stating the absurdity of logic when referring to the ways of the material world.

What are we trying to rule over, anyway?
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

I told you, you're on my lottery list. But that's the only way I'm going to get there too - unless one of those other miracles bounces off the wall at me. It just might. One just bounced me straight to Miami.

I really don't even worry about being in the right perspective. Forcing my consciousness to conform to something that it might or might not be is not my idea of sat-chit-anand. The path is arduous only because it consists of an eternal series of letting-go.

Do you really think he'll do that 'water thing' in Amaroo?

I love dancing with the wind. Really.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

(why 45?)

This will probably be my last post until post-Miami. I wish you all a wonderful and fruitful and powerful week.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

I was going to respond to specific points you said, then I thought I would read your post a few times and then just wing it. So here goes.
I am glad you are intact.
Jim would like to walk someone through a big change but that would scare me.
I definately know m is changing. That was of great interest to me and I would look at each video for little sentences he would say that my friends just missed. It was quite a show
and I was quite impressed by the friday night december event which was probably his best and most revealing speech ever. Of course, you dont know what I'm talking about probably.
Anyway, the saturday morning event was very honest
but very crushing to me. All the pieces came together that
all my past was unfortunately based on something that just wasn't so.
I figure he is still evolving and I am not up to date.
He may be the right guy for the job of revealing this knowledge around the globe but I have lost my dream.
My wife says that I should befriend the power again,accept a faceless friend, that life is still my lover.
Kabir says: Every instant that the sun is risen, if I stand in the temple, or on a balcony, in the hot fields, or in a walled garden, my own lord is making love to me.

I think that is his clearest work.
and the making love is the movement of the life.
I know Yeshua(jesus) said at one point that my father and I are one. Maybe he did become the god for a while.
Perhaps. IF that can happen then it can happen again.
Or maybe that is not what he meant.
Either way, ignorance can be bliss and I am not there anymore.
Maharaji is probably the only one articulating clearly about
the life for types like me that wanted some support in focusing on the life. So I give him that.
I have some more ideas on why m has been like he has but they fall under the' excuses for god and m' catagory and I'm not sure I'm going to unearth them.
Let m do his thing. I am driven and determined to sail on.
I have invested my life in coming to the recognition that the
presence of god is the fulfilling thing and it is in feeling the life that I get it all. And ok, OP ji, maharaji had a role in that. And looking at history, and the looney track record of god on earth, I guess I am lucky to get this far. It's not like it's the common thing. It's the rare thing.
Whatever is of value to you, by all means keep.
I'm glad your up tonight, but generally speaking, why are you at this website? What makes you think you are an old premie? at 50? I'm 45 now and in hollywood they decided that since we live so long the new midlife age is not 40 but 45. So either disappear from the website or use your name or pick a new name. I officially revoke your OP name because of age fraud.. you sexy thing you.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index