Ex-Premie.Org

Forum I Archive # 8

From: Jun 18, 1997

To: Jul 15, 1997

Page: 4 Of: 5


Brian -:- Puzzles and Word Games -:- Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 08:08:55 (EDT)
___bb -:- Re: Puzzles and Word Games -:- Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 11:45:05 (EDT)
___Bobby -:- Re: Puzzles and Word Games -:- Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 14:07:27 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Puzzles and Word Games -:- Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 17:09:01 (EDT)
___Bobby -:- Re: Puzzles and Word Games -:- Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 18:14:17 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Puzzles and Word Games -:- Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 19:25:44 (EDT)
___Bobby -:- Re: Puzzles and Word Games -:- Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 22:24:43 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Puzzles and Word Games -:- Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 22:37:37 (EDT)
___Bobby -:- Re: Puzzles and Word Games -:- Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 23:03:08 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Puzzles and Word Games -:- Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 23:10:08 (EDT)
___Bobby Jim and Jimmy Bob -:- Re: Puzzles and Word Games -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 05:47:00 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Puzzles and Word Games -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 14:14:21 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Puzzles and Word Games -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 16:15:46 (EDT)
___Anon -:- Re: Puzzles and Word Games -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 21:46:12 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Puzzles and Word Games -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 22:07:20 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Puzzles and Word Games -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 22:41:55 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Puzzles and Word Games -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 22:55:45 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Puzzles and Word Games -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 23:05:54 (EDT)
___Brother Andrew -:- Re: Puzzles and Word Games -:- Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 12:38:54 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: Puzzles and Word Games -:- Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 21:09:52 (EDT)

Jim -:- We are not Alone! -:- Sat, Jun 21, 1997 at 20:48:53 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: We are not Alone! -:- Sat, Jun 21, 1997 at 23:32:48 (EDT)
___birk -:- Re: We are not Alone! -:- Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 01:10:46 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: We are not Alone! -:- Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 02:06:06 (EDT)

You Gotta -:- Love That Khrishna! -:- Sat, Jun 21, 1997 at 12:23:44 (EDT)
___Scott: -:- Re: Love That Khrishna! -:- Sat, Jun 21, 1997 at 14:22:01 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Love That Khrishna! -:- Sat, Jun 21, 1997 at 14:57:29 (EDT)
___berk -:- Re: Love That Khrishna! -:- Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 07:45:26 (EDT)
___bb -:- Re: Love That Khrishna! -:- Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 12:10:20 (EDT)
___Mili -:- Re: Love That Khrishna! -:- Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 10:13:10 (EDT)
___Mili -:- Re: Love That Khrishna! -:- Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 11:18:14 (EDT)
___Mili -:- Re: Love That Khrishna! -:- Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 18:14:35 (EDT)

Michael -:- Telling our children -:- Fri, Jun 20, 1997 at 01:24:36 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: Telling our children -:- Fri, Jun 20, 1997 at 07:01:51 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Telling our children -:- Fri, Jun 20, 1997 at 12:04:39 (EDT)
___Michael -:- Re: Telling our children -:- Fri, Jun 20, 1997 at 13:20:07 (EDT)
___bb -:- Re: Telling our children -:- Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 12:23:46 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: Telling our children -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 06:45:05 (EDT)
___Bobby -:- Re: Telling our children -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 08:48:10 (EDT)
___Michael -:- Re: Telling our children -:- Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 18:27:01 (EDT)
___Tom -:- Re: Telling our children -:- Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 02:00:13 (EDT)
___tom -:- Re: Telling our children -:- Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 22:46:55 (EDT)
___Tom -:- Re: Telling our children -:- Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 23:49:05 (EDT)
___tom -:- Re: Telling our children -:- Wed, Jun 25, 1997 at 00:00:39 (EDT)

Scott -:- What if you don't like the new look? -:- Thurs, Jun 19, 1997 at 05:14:38 (EDT)


Date: Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 08:08:55 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Puzzles and Word Games
Message:
I've been reading the 'Inner Peace' posts below, if only to mark them 'read'. The assumption is that 'someone' hid something out in plain sight for those of us curious enough to discover. Fiddle with it long enough and we just might stumble over the answer. But there is a difference between discovering something on your own, and sharing that information with others.

In my experience (the E word again), what I discover via my own curiousity and questing is really none of anyone else's business. I only look for what interests me, not because I'm trying to garner the acclaim of having discovered some hidden truth. I figure any hidden truth is hidden for a purpose - from me, and from others likely to look for it. I don't know the reason, but if something is hidden in the first place (and having seen what people are capable of doing to each other), I prefer to not share what I find.

I've seen what happens when people talk about their experiences with others who haven't had them - yet or ever. All these 'great religions' are based on sharing what you know. All may have started with good intentions. All of them have done damage to people - real or imagined.

I believe that MJ is a fraud. I'll continue to voice that opinion and my reasons for it. Not everyone shares that belief, I know. I see a value in Knowledge that I'm not going to dispute, but I'm still going to warn others about the trappings of belief that MJ wraps himself comfortably in. I'm not trying to discourage people from posting what they believe here, but I also know that some might draw that conclusion. It's easy to attack another person's posts with your own discoveries. I'm going to avoid that as long as the subject isn't MJ-related. Let's just say that what I know is only known with 99% certainty. Lacking that 1% verification, I will keep my beliefs to myself. If I ever gain that verification, I will still keep it to myself, since people still have to make their own discoveries in order to appreciate them. Let's just say I respect the Universe's (or whatever) right to hide any way it wants, as long as it wants. It probably has good reasons not to have trusted me in the first place :)
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Date: Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 11:45:05 (EDT)
Poster: bb
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Puzzles and Word Games
Message:
excellent
that helps me out I was waiting for anon to weigh in and give an overview
and it was you instead.
anon may have 2 cents more of course.
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Date: Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 14:07:27 (EDT)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Puzzles and Word Games
Message:
You're entitled to your opinion. I feel differently.

I'm into sharing information about personal experiences, especially personal spiritual experiences. This is not a process of one-upmanship but an exploration of the ranges of human and spiritual experience. I continue this project with my Sacred Transformations web page and I continue this project with "Telling Our Stories", an opportunity for people who have been through the mental health / mental illness system to speak their story, their personal experience.

In my opinion we live in monolithic times, times where reality is largely shaped by megalithic/monolithic corporate structures. In the fields of mental health / mental illness, treatments are often forced on people, quite often against their will. People are made to conform to "reality" as set forth in the psychiatric bible the DSM-IV.

I believe reality to be multidimensional. Ranges of experience are multidimensional as well. Most people are afraid to speak their experiences for fear of censure or appearing weird. In my opinion, most if not all of us experience anomalistic, inexplicable, "weird" experiences. Rhea White calls these EHE's or Exceptional Human Experiences. Those interested can view what she has to say through links on my Sacred Transformations page.

Counter to the fundamentalist CSICOP (Committee for Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal), with their house organ *The Skepical Inquirer*, is CSICON (Committee for Surrealist Investigation of the Normal). They offer $10,000 to any "normalist" who can produce a "perfectly normal person, place or thing -- or even an ordinary sunset. Or average day."

Screw the reality police.
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Date: Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 17:09:01 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: Puzzles and Word Games
Message:
You're entitled to your opinion. I feel differently.

I'm into sharing information about personal experiences, especially personal spiritual experiences. This is not a process of one-upmanship but an exploration of the ranges of human and spiritual experience. I continue this project with my Sacred Transformations web page and I continue this project with 'Telling Our Stories', an opportunity for people who have been through the mental health / mental illness system to speak their story, their personal experience.

In my opinion we live in monolithic times, times where reality is largely shaped by megalithic/monolithic corporate structures. In the fields of mental health / mental illness, treatments are often forced on people, quite often against their will. People are made to conform to 'reality' as set forth in the psychiatric bible the DSM-IV.

I believe reality to be multidimensional. Ranges of experience are multidimensional as well. Most people are afraid to speak their experiences for fear of censure or appearing weird. In my opinion, most if not all of us experience anomalistic, inexplicable, 'weird' experiences. Rhea White calls these EHE's or Exceptional Human Experiences. Those interested can view what she has to say through links on my Sacred Transformations page.

Counter to the fundamentalist CSICOP (Committee for Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal), with their house organ *The Skepical Inquirer*, is CSICON (Committee for Surrealist Investigation of the Normal). They offer $10,000 to any 'normalist' who can produce a 'perfectly normal person, place or thing -- or even an ordinary sunset. Or average day.'

Screw the reality police.
Bobby, is there really such a blunt sense of humour out there? I'd like to know, 'cause if I ever have kids they'll need to be warned. You don't like the skeptics because they question your sand castles. Hey, man, it's called building inspection. Lighten up a bit.
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Date: Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 18:14:17 (EDT)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Puzzles and Word Games
Message:
Jim says:

Bobby, is there really such a blunt sense of humour out there? I'd like to know,'cause if I ever have kids they'll need to be warned. You don't like the skeptics because they question your sand castles. Hey, man, it's called building inspection. Lighten up a bit.

I've got kids. Two of them. You don't.
The most important thing I teach is the values of love and respect. These are most important.

You are telling me to lighten up a bit? You are one of the most arrogant, slanderous people I have ever met. You are not inerested in hearing what others have to say, you are interested in supporting your sandcastles by misappropriation of language and refusals to consider other views than the narrow window available through your steel engirdered blinders. Examples of your obfuscations spill throughout your spewings on this board.

You are irritating me again. That's all I have to say to you.
Flame off.
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Date: Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 19:25:44 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: Puzzles and Word Games
Message:
Jim says:

Bobby, is there really such a blunt sense of humour out there? I'd like to know,'cause if I ever have kids they'll need to be warned. You don't like the skeptics because they question your sand castles. Hey, man, it's called building inspection. Lighten up a bit.

I've got kids. Two of them. You don't.
The most important thing I teach is the values of love and respect. These are most important.

You are telling me to lighten up a bit? You are one of the most arrogant, slanderous people I have ever met. You are not inerested in hearing what others have to say, you are interested in supporting your sandcastles by misappropriation of language and refusals to consider other views than the narrow window available through your steel engirdered blinders. Examples of your obfuscations spill throughout your spewings on this board.

You are irritating me again. That's all I have to say to you.
Flame off.
Your claim, your turn: what obfuscations? What 'misappropriation of language'? As for 'refusals to consider other views' how do you distinguish between that and disagreement?
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Date: Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 22:24:43 (EDT)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Puzzles and Word Games
Message:
You don't like the skeptics because they question your sand castles. Hey, man, it's called building inspection. Lighten up a bit.

Your words here evade and obfuscate the sense of what I stated. Your tactics remind me of courtroom dramas. Your evasions and obfuscations of issues others raise are the same tactics you so gleefully accuse other of. You do this all the time on this forum.

I can really understand how people get so upset at lawyers. You embody the stereotype. You use word games that go for the jugular. You don't really care about "reason". You like to play head games that insult and demean. You don't care about "truth". You get your rocks off messing with people's minds.
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Date: Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 22:37:37 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: Puzzles and Word Games
Message:
You don't like the skeptics because they question your sand castles. Hey, man, it's called building inspection. Lighten up a bit.

Your words here evade and obfuscate the sense of what I stated. Your tactics remind me of courtroom dramas. Your evasions and obfuscations of issues others raise are the same tactics you so gleefully accuse other of. You do this all the time on this forum.

I can really understand how people get so upset at lawyers. You embody the stereotype. You use word games that go for the jugular. You don't really care about 'reason'. You like to play head games that insult and demean. You don't care about 'truth'. You get your rocks off messing with people's minds.
(Yawn...) Back it up Bobby. I don't know what you're talking about. In particular, what evasion? What obfuscation? And do me a favour, will you? Can you lay off this lawyer stuff. Christ, don't you know that's the very kind of attitude that gives non-lawyers a bad name?
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Date: Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 23:03:08 (EDT)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Puzzles and Word Games
Message:
Yeah. I guess. Sorry.

Well I'm yawning too. We won't be seeing eye to eye on very much at all. I'm done talking with you.

It's really interesting how you inspire me to anger. However, I do realize the anger is in me. I really wish you no harm. You're an exercise for me on the nature of my own mind. I seek to cultivate compassion. I'll just let go of the word games.

May you find your answers.
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Date: Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 23:10:08 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: Puzzles and Word Games
Message:
Yeah. I guess. Sorry.

Well I'm yawning too. We won't be seeing eye to eye on very much at all. I'm done talking with you.

It's really interesting how you inspire me to anger. However, I do realize the anger is in me. I really wish you no harm. You're an exercise for me on the nature of my own mind. I seek to cultivate compassion. I'll just let go of the word games.

May you find your answers.
May you find your peace, Robert. Go forth and prosper!
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 05:47:00 (EDT)
Poster: Bobby Jim and Jimmy Bob
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Puzzles and Word Games
Message:
OH YEAH?
YEAH!

OH YEAH?
YEAH!

OH YEAH?
YEAH!

OH YEAH?
YEAH!

OH YEAH?
YEAH!

OH YEAH?
YEAH!

OH YEAH?
YEAH!
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 14:14:21 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Bobby
Subject: Re: Puzzles and Word Games
Message:
I also find that Jim is good at bringing out a bit of anger.

He does have some good points and can inspire you to become a better debater and reflect on certain emotions and beliefs if you respond to the exchange in those directions.
His downside is well documented on these pages in his own words.

I tend to think that his most negative feelings about Maharaji are a reflection of his mind games.
He has limited himself by his game of blame.

I am curious if he is any good at playing the guitar.

CD
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 16:15:46 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Puzzles and Word Games
Message:
I also find that Jim is good at bringing out a bit of anger.

He does have some good points and can inspire you to become a better debater and reflect on certain emotions and beliefs if you respond to the exchange in those directions.
His downside is well documented on these pages in his own words.

I tend to think that his most negative feelings about Maharaji are a reflection of his mind games.
He has limited himself by his game of blame.

I am curious if he is any good at playing the guitar.

CD

Chris, I'm an okay guitarist. Sometimes our band is great. This weekend they called us awesome.

Games? You, dear friend, are the game player. I've asked you a bunch of questions that you've ducked and dodged. If you call what I've done 'game playing' then I'd ask you to send me the Chrisspeak glossary for once and for all and we can leave this English shit behind.
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 21:46:12 (EDT)
Poster: Anon
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Puzzles and Word Games
Message:
I am curious if he is any good at playing the guitar.
Why.. Do you think that ones musicality suffers if you stop practising? !
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 22:07:20 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: Puzzles and Word Games
Message:
I am curious if he is any good at playing the guitar.
Why.. Do you think that ones musicality suffers if you stop practising? !

A good funny for Anon! How 'bout that?
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 22:41:55 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Anon
Subject: Re: Puzzles and Word Games
Message:
Jerry Garcia claimed that he practised 8 hours a day.
What good is practice anyway?
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 22:55:45 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Puzzles and Word Games
Message:
Next year after the bandwidth increases we can duke it out with an on-line guitar duel.
Maybe I will set up a guitar dueling server on NT using the upcoming NetMeeting server.
If everybody gets a miniature video camera we can even make faces at each other on-line.

CD
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 23:05:54 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Puzzles and Word Games
Message:
Jerry Garcia claimed that he practised 8 hours a day.
What good is practice anyway?

Funny (sorry Bobby, cosmic) you should mention him. He was my first idol. I worshipped Garcia before the word Deadhead. It was years before I came to admit that a) he was just a guitar player and not somehow preternaturally wise, and b)good, sometimes great, but probably not the best. In fact, I had to admit at some show in the late '80s, the Dead could actually bore me. Sound familiar? Kind of?
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Date: Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 12:38:54 (EDT)
Poster: Brother Andrew
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Puzzles and Word Games
Message:
If I believe I have inner peace - and tell someone - I'll no doubt be called a craphead

Will that disturb my inner peace?
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Date: Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 21:09:52 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Brother Andrew
Subject: Re: Puzzles and Word Games
Message:
If I believe I have inner peace - and tell someone - I'll no doubt be called a craphead

No doubt about it. I'd even bet you've been thrown out of enough of MJ's programs, for calling him just that, to know what you're talking about.

Will that disturb my inner peace?

How could it not? But take comfort in knowing that you probably earned it. Besides, what do those skeptics know, anyway? It's not like they've ever kissed MJ's feet on their way up his anatomy, right? Ignore em.

As an aside: You're spending far too much time around that Eddie Haskell. Really, Beaver! 'Craphead'?? Now, there's just no need for that kind of profanity.
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Date: Sat, Jun 21, 1997 at 20:48:53 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: We are not Alone!
Message:
I dropped in on the ex-SYDHA Yoga site (Guru Mayi) and chuckled at the parallel issues that abound. One, the cancelling of darshan, was worth showing you guys. First, this (from a SYDHA announcement in December, 1996):

'Darshan is no longer going to be a regular or expected part of the siddha yoga programs, commencing with
the Winter retreat. . . .This change is not a reaction to anything. It is for our own development. It is a natural
change. This is a divine decision of the shakti made for divine reasons. It is not about Siddha Yoga policy as
such . . . . At programs we will continue to come up to the chair when she is not in the chair. We can no longer
expect that Gurumayi will receive us when she is in the chair. Chair darshan will continue at centers. . . . She
will have more time to spend with the children's programs (broadcast applause followed this sentence). The
darshan panel will continue and be expanded. . . . There will be satsangs about this change at the Winter retreat.
. . . Look at your dreams and meditation experiences. You will find that you will be having darshans that way. . .
.

Do this experiment: see in how many ways the guru's help comes to you. Really do this experiment. You will
see how special you are, how truly loved you are. I actually got a parking space on E. 53rd street, a physical
impossibility without the guru's grace. . . . She will find so many ways to give it to us. . . .'

Then, the ex-sucker commentary:

'So what's going on? Why has she stopped giving darshan? Darshan has been an intricate part of siddha yoga
back to Nityananda of Ganeshpuri's time. Darshan is a major part of all traditional spiritual paths. However, if
you look at the bigger picture, she has been withdrawing from the masses for years. When she first took the
chair, darshans were plentiful and you could even talk to her directly. Then she came to less programs in any
given week. Then you had to talk to a "secretary" and they simply took notes. Maybe they talked to her for you
later and maybe not. Then the letters devotees sent her went to the temple instead of her. They were burned.
Now she is not available for darshan.

The reason's given relate to "divine direction" of which we have no knowledge of what that means, just that is
for the better. And she didn't even have the courtesy or the courage to tell people herself.

Maybe she can't tolerate all those people pulling at her anymore in darshan. Maybe it's simply become too much
for her and she is pulling further away, again. Some people may argue that she is too busy and that there are too
many devotees for her to do darshan. That it takes too long. Well I do know of other "Gurus" who spend up to
10 hours at a time giving darshan.

And of course I would expect that her darshan's for pay will continue. If you give enough money you will have
"special consideration" which, in addtion to getting a free pass to Amrit and the 4 star rooms, you can still get a
"private darshan". I wonder how much that will cost?

The whole purpose I thought of having a living guru was to receive person to person direction, to help keep
people from getting lost in their minds and fantasies. Oh, I forgot, they can take a course or take an intensive,
pay a lot of money and get some "truth"!

Is this the beginning of the end? Only time will tell. Until then, keep the faith.'

OP? Chris?
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Date: Sat, Jun 21, 1997 at 23:32:48 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: We are not Alone!
Message:
Thanks, Jim. That is too funny! I was in the wrong cult, evidently. How come we didn't have an 'Amrit and the 4 star rooms'? I like the part about devotees only being allowed darshan when the chair is empty. Cosmic Catch 22.
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Date: Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 01:10:46 (EDT)
Poster: birk
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: We are not Alone!
Message:
Wow what a hoot!

We are definately going to be led if we dont lead ourselves. She wont be a large historical messiah because she doesnt have the drive to bust from the pack and go big time international, and unless she has the knowledge shes not really equipped like the other messiahs. Also, she is a woman and like the pope says---
women aint got it---.

Thank you Pope John,Paul,George,Ringo.
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Date: Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 02:06:06 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: We are not Alone!
Message:
Jim,
Yes, parking in New York City can be a bitch.
I really only do cabs.
The strip club across the street from Letterman's theatre does have those special star rooms that you have to pay extra for.
You would like the place now that you are not so repressed.
Of course an empty chair does you no good.
Do you like a big kilbosa with dripping mustard?
Does legal analysis and courtroom jousting give you that special release you deserve?
You may not be compatible with other varieties of ex's. Be gentle.
Jackie O's might be your style.
Take care.
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Date: Sat, Jun 21, 1997 at 12:23:44 (EDT)
Poster: You Gotta
Email: Scotts world
To: all knowing godhead
Subject: Love That Khrishna!
Message:
Arjuna is in a battle field and his friends and relatives and lots of innocent people are lined up ready to fight to the death. Arjuna comes to his senses thank god and starts to cry and says I am not going to start this insanity over some mundane worthless goal.

Well lo and behold his charioteer starts to talk.
He says I am the infinite godhead(messiah) and I say These people are dead already and so I say kill them all.
Well Arjuna is not a total pushover yet and so he says,
n.o. Then krishna shows him some god awful ugly form
and Arjuna is won over. (I think Jim would have demanded a little more, or at least a promise of riches)

So Arjuna starts the battle and a 5,000 year old religion is born.

Excuse me for complaining but god is a really strange power. No matter what religion you look at it is loaded
with ____. Idont want god to see that.
With his track record I think that is warrented.
How can I live not following the local krishna priests directives.
Why should Maharaji be perfect and pure when all of gods
employee messiahs are so dang consistantly not.
Are there any messiahs you know of that were like you?
Surely Im overlooking someone.
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Date: Sat, Jun 21, 1997 at 14:22:01 (EDT)
Poster: Scott:
Email:
To: Tom
Subject: Re: Love That Khrishna!
Message:
Earn Extra Money Working from Home, Part-time or Full-time: - Could you use an extra $500 to $1,500 this month? Would you like to earn $100,000 or more a year? We work from our homes and earn incredible incomes!
- This opportunity can work for you too! The work-at-home messiah business is part of a $400 billion a year industry. There are plenty of eager disciples awaiting you. Your movement will have unlimited growth potential. We'll teach you! We'll show you! You will love it! They will love you!
- Simply mail a check for $150 US to the:

S.B.E.D. Fund (Sucker Born Every Day Fund)
1 Paradise Road
Bliss City, California 96085

- Seriously Tom, maybe M.'s meditation does come with a few thrills attached. Still, as long as M. is out there telling folks that they owe him their whole lives in exchange for his half hour of meditation instruction, I don't find myself being very thrilled by the whole deal.
- Please allow me quote to you from M. himself about what he feels you truly owe him in exchange for Knowledge:

From the Guru Puja 1972 Shri Hans Productions magazine pg. 12:
(The WPC commander said to M.), "See how much they are devoted to you!"
Maharaji replied, "Why shouldn't they be? I have given them such a precious thing, free...."

- Now, was Knowledge really free, or did it come with hidden strings attached? The strings of indebtedness and obligation that we were all told we must recognize and accept, even before we were allowed to recieve Knowledge. To me, spirituality is great, but only so long as the old profit or power motives are completely, absolutely, unquestionably removed from the picture.
- Actually, in the first book of the New Testament, there even Jesus says, call no man on Earth your Father, for you have only one Father in Heaven. Still Maharaji used to revel, (and may still do so), when we used to call him "Father" in Arti. Personally, I tend to guess that it was probably the people after Jesus that fucked up the church. But with M., it looks to me like things are already pretty screwed up while the guy is still alive.
- The earliest practice of Buddhism was also a purely personal thing that didn't revolve around the Buddha. The earliest teachings there were all about personal and mental discipline and spoke nothing about the need for a 'perfect master'.
- Likewise with Judaism, if not more so. Moses, the one we credit with founding Judaism as it has survived to this day, was never worshiped in any way. (Still isn't.)
- No, I think I'll pass on equating M. with Jesus, Moses, Buddha or any of the other great ones, thanks.

Sincerely,

Scott
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Date: Sat, Jun 21, 1997 at 14:57:29 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: You Gotta
Subject: Re: Love That Khrishna!
Message:
As you can tell by most of the pictures Jesus was not like Krishna.
He was a mellow surfer dude.
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Date: Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 07:45:26 (EDT)
Poster: berk
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Love That Khrishna!
Message:
Did you ever notice that in the movies about Jesu,
the lead characters and directors never knew how to make
yeshua look? His eyes were always like he smoked hash recently, or spaced out or otherworldly, never like a happy guy who liked being here. He is always acting and looking like he is just putting up with this place because his father?
needs him to be here to be sacri Hmm, I feel a thread coming on
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Date: Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 12:10:20 (EDT)
Poster: bb
Email:
To: Scott
Subject: Re: Love That Khrishna!
Message:
Thats interesting, your probably right.
What a process!
At least things happen quickly here.
What a resource!
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Date: Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 10:13:10 (EDT)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Scott:
Subject: Re: Love That Khrishna!
Message:
This is just to show you that a different interpratation is possible than your usual cynical one. You are not just being cynical, though - you are being so ham-fisted and insulting that you do not even deserve this response.
Anyway, suppose, even theoretically, that all us thousands of non-ex people DO feel relief, inspiration and even extreme pleasure, bliss through the means that Maharaji offers. Suppose people consider his work worthwhile and his incessant touring a boon, a blessing in their lives. Now, it's obvious even to a child if he is touring and spending all his time and energy in doing what he is doing, that he can't be working shifts in some factory at the same time.
Well, just suppose people feel that it is worthwhile to support his cause, and even support him physically - on a strictly voluntary basis. What's wrong with that? Why should that bother you? I mean, I could understand your resentment if someone told you that you were obliged to support him. But why should you mind someone else personally donating their time or money if they felt like it? If it's not bothering the person who is donating, and it's not bothering Maharaji, why should it bother you? You know, his not accepting my gift would actually be offending me were I to offer it. Now, this was just a simple little non-offensive explanation that I just gave you, and it need not even correspond to the actual events (though, I am sure it pretty much does). The point is, if he is busy flying around the world seeing premies and giving people hope of fulfillment in life and the means thereof , he doesn't have the time to punch a clock in somebody else's office. He is punching his own clock in his own office working overtime all the time, and he should get a decent salary for it.
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Date: Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 11:18:14 (EDT)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Scott.
Subject: Re: Love That Khrishna!
Message:
Actually, in the first book of the New Testament, there even Jesus says, call no man on Earth
your Father, for you have only one Father in Heaven. Still Maharaji used to revel, (and may still do
so), when we used to call him 'Father' in Arti. Personally, I tend to guess that it was probably the
people after Jesus that fucked up the church. But with M., it looks to me like things are already
pretty screwed up while the guy is still alive.
- The earliest practice of Buddhism was also a purely personal thing that didn't revolve around the
Buddha. The earliest teachings there were all about personal and mental discipline and spoke
nothing about the need for a 'perfect master'.
- Likewise with Judaism, if not more so. Moses, the one we credit with founding Judaism as it has
survived to this day, was never worshiped in any way. (Still isn't.)


You are simply being ridiculous here, Scott. The pattern is so clear, no matter how you try to distort it: master and disciples. As a matter of fact, Jesus said I and my Father are one. Anyway, why spend your time in answering stupid dilemmas you concoct yourself while you can be meditating or earning a living, or at the beach with some girl, or something. You know, I really can t figure out what makes you guys tick - Jim, Anon, Scott. The closest I can come up with is that you ve sure picked a queer way of working out your personal frustrations!
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Date: Thurs, Jul 3, 1997 at 18:14:35 (EDT)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: Scott
Subject: Re: Love That Khrishna!
Message:
This is just to show you that a different interpretation is possible than your usual cynical one. You
are not just being cynical, though - you are being so ham-fisted and insulting that you do not even
deserve this response.


Anyway, suppose, even theoretically, that all us thousands of non-ex people DO feel relief,
inspiration and even extreme pleasure, bliss through the means that Maharaji offers. Suppose
people consider his work worthwhile and his incessant touring a boon, a blessing in their lives.
Now, it's obvious even to a child if he is touring and spending all his time and energy in doing what
he is doing, that he can't be working shifts in some factory at the same time.
Well, just suppose people feel that it is worthwhile to support his cause, and even support him
physically - on a strictly voluntary basis. What's wrong with that? Why should that bother you? I
mean, I could understand your resentment if someone told you that you were obliged to support
him. But why should you mind someone else personally donating their time or money if they felt
like it? If it's not bothering the person who is donating, and it's not bothering Maharaji, why should
it bother you? You know, his not accepting my gift would actually be offending me were I to offer
it. Now, this was just a simple little non-offensive explanation that I just gave you, and it need not
even correspond to the actual events (though, I am sure it pretty much does). The point is, if he is
busy flying around the world seeing premies and giving people hope of fulfillment in life and the
means thereof , he doesn't have the time to punch a clock in somebody else's office. He is
punching his own clock in his own office working overtime all the time, and he should get a decent salary for it.
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Date: Fri, Jun 20, 1997 at 01:24:36 (EDT)
Poster: Michael
Email: mgdbach@ziplink.net
To: Everyone
Subject: Telling our children
Message:
I am new to this site, and I have not yet finished reading all the archived messages, but I am wondering how many of the visitors to this site have adolescent or young adult children, and how do you explain your time with the DLM to them? I have a daughter who just graduated from High School last week, and another daughter who is just turning sixteen. I have been honest with them about drug experimentation and lots of other things, but I really get embarassed when I talk about my time with DLM and Maharaji. I have warned them about being prey to cults, and I have really tried to encourage them to use their minds and reason, but I'm never really sure if it gets through to them. How do the rest of you deal with this situation?
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Date: Fri, Jun 20, 1997 at 07:01:51 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Michael
Subject: Re: Telling our children
Message:
I was a non-custodial parent. My ex-wife received knowledge before we were married. Neither of us has told the kids about our experiences, as far as I know. Me, because of lack of opportunity to be around them as they grew and now their off on their own young-adult adventures. So I'm not qualified to talk on the subject from the parental side.

But I know from the child side by heart. If my parents, or some other 'concerned' relative, had taken the time to attend satsang with me and looked at what I found to be so attractive, they might have helped me to put it into some perspective. I had my doubts all along about MJ, but 'his' credibility was my own life-force. A timely observation from someone might have pointed that out to me, and helped me discount one while appreciating the other.

Maybe there's nothing you can ultimately do to save people steps around possible problems that they find in their lives. But taking enough personal interest in what they actually think and feel would be a great first step. We probably all went to our most important 'someone' at one point and described our experiences to them. My 'someones' just looked at me like I was crazy, and it might be contagious.
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Date: Fri, Jun 20, 1997 at 12:04:39 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Michael
Subject: Re: Telling our children
Message:
Michael, what kind of relationship do you have with your kid that you can't expose the whole sublimely ridiculousness of it all to her?
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Date: Fri, Jun 20, 1997 at 13:20:07 (EDT)
Poster: Michael
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Telling our children
Message:
My relationship with my daughter at this point is at the 'almost everything Dad says is probably stupid' phase, which will probably play out in a few years. I just try to keep communication open. I also realize that she needs to find her own path and learn somethings for herself, but, like most parents, I want to save her the trouble, even though learning things on my own was an important factor of my own maturation. She presently claims to be a Pagan (very big thing here in Berkeley) but she really doesn't know too much about it. I have talked with the kids about DLM and cults in general, but you never really know how much of it gets through. I'm interested in learning how others deal with this because it will help my own understanding.
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Date: Sun, Jun 22, 1997 at 12:23:46 (EDT)
Poster: bb
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Telling our children
Message:
boy you are hot stuff
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 06:45:05 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Michael
Subject: Re: Telling our children
Message:
In thinking about this some more, I came up with some ways to help your certain avoid falling victim to cults. These methods work best if started when the kids are older, say about 16 years old:

1) Encourage them to show you 'proper respect' by loving them only in proportion to the amount of respect that they show you.

2) Speak to them only if and when you choose, and always from your Easy-Boy Recliner. They should be seated on the floor at the time for maximum effect.

3) Sell them videos of yourself speaking at length on the topic 'What You Owe Your Parents'. Encourage them to watch these constantly. Withdraw your love if they don't.

4) Re-write the 14 verses to Arti and make the kids learn them by heart. Each night, and every morning, permit them to sing this to a picture of yourself that you have placed on the Easy-Boy.

5) Make sure that they develop proper nutritional habits by feeding them only lentils and yogurt. On special occasions, you can vary the menu - perhaps yogurt and lentils.

6) Encourage them to help around the house by assigning them simple chores to do. Example: approach them in the evening and demand that the house be repainted by dawn.

7) Insist that they help spread this philosophy by bringing their little friends home to help. This will certainly increase their popularity at school.

8) Show them the rewards of their efforts by purchasing as many expensive items as you can possibly think you might ever need. Buy 30 or 40 at a time, and purchase them on time-payments.

9) Promote self-reliance in them by insisting that they each hold down a few after-school jobs, and allowing them to pay all of the household bills each month.

10) Quit your job. Parenting is a full-time responsibility.
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 08:48:10 (EDT)
Poster: Bobby
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Telling our children
Message:
Ha-ha-ha.....

Now there's a man that understands parenting!
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Date: Mon, Jun 23, 1997 at 18:27:01 (EDT)
Poster: Michael
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Telling our children
Message:
Great advice, Brian! I wish I had thought of that! Now, my only question is, should I wear a three piece suit or see if I can rent an Krishna outfit?
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Date: Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 02:00:13 (EDT)
Poster: Tom
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Telling our children
Message:
The first time I read it it was funny then it was sobering then it hit my memory banks
1) Insist on ultimate respect then dont love them at all.
have your wife doubt that you love her. Have her doubt it all the time.
2)Blast them if they piss you off.
get pissed off over nothing. Yell at people like no one else can. Insist that it does them good. even in 96.
3)Discover the definition of sincerity in 96 and try to speak without pretense and deciet. Better late than never.
4)discard arti but dont discuss that it is not true with your true believers. Let them spend another decade thinking its
basically true. Or longer!
5)come from a vegetarian country but dont tell anyone about combineing rice and beans and vegetables. Let decades go by. Say you dont care what they eat. let the true believers slowly figure it out to escape thier own death.
6)Have them work 5 days without sleep.
7)Have them build all thier human relationships around bringing them to you. Thereby makeing them completely out of touch with thier own real personality.
8)have thier only desire besides devotion be to make you the 2 billion you want.
9)provide them an opportunity to feel guilty that the wifes medical bills eat up the divine donation allotment.
10)Use very strong language to discourage them from having children. Dont let them know you disavow previous comments --IF you have changed that opinion.

Amazingly, after writing this I am still going to ny

I guess I'm of two minds about this.
1)complaining about maharaji
2)complaining about the god

Unless I wake up to another view, I want the knowledge available to my neighbors, because its of value, but god does not really give much priority to people finding out.
At a time when transportation and communication are worldwide and instant almost, and a guy is there wanting to reveal it, god makes sure he comes with some serious baggage. Enough to virtually wreck his chances.
Even when the guy finally discovers his main roadblock,
the fact that he is not with the ride, baggage persists.
If he someday cleared up completely, his track record will
haunt him.
The promise to humans was 1000 years of heaven on earth. In typical god fashion, its a short 1000 years. Of course we are supposed to be thrilled to get that. And I would be I guess, If could even believe that promise.
Do I think maharaji is the historical messiah of the day?
yes.
Irregardless of how much better others supposidly were,
he is traveling and honing his talking skills and he is stoppable only by god, and god has let him roll on and on.
People WILL keep coming and they will feel saved by the
knowledge and it will go on. All his visible flaws have been reduced to a minimum. And you have to really listen to him to hear his personal life revealed. Almost all people dont hear it even when you tell them. So I finally accept that about people too.
In a world of nutty behavior, With troubles always there,
by there I mean here, that I deal with, I am going to curl up with the safe feeling and leave all the shit to god to either
deal with or not and I dont care about god and his ways anymore, I dont know why there is such a stink to god,
and the god story, of course someone will offer the genius comment, --we are not meant to understand god--.
or, --if you look for faults, you will find them--.
I know the only illusion free thing and luckily,
its the safe place. So I will accept the safe place and
just live in it period. Best of luck to the rest of the humans.
my e-mail is tom@rocketmail.com and my password is
--truthreigns-- scott was nice enough to set up that account
and password for me. keep it and come poke around for fun once in a while, dont erase my addresses. you can leave yours there. Thank you very much for your stellar help. If my invention stores energy and you need money,
you can let me know. Dont line up anytime soon.
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Date: Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 22:46:55 (EDT)
Poster: tom
Email:
To: Tom
Subject: Re: Telling our children
Message:
You are delusional, you are so intwined after 24 years that
you need a break. Stick with the feeling and blot out the
whole god arena. Stop going to the mens breakfast and let your friends go to ny. Graduate yourself from your
focus on god and just feel your way through your remaining time. recognise the mercy and help that comes your way,
and notice all the things that are going for you. Just smile at lifes fun and blot out all the shit. You have dedicated yourself to everyone else always. Be selfish and do what you like and dont try to help everybody. Give it all a rest and retire from obligation. You have the knowledge and you understand it and now just be free. Its graduation time for all the other students and now since no one else cares enough about you, I will graduate you officially now.
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Date: Tues, Jun 24, 1997 at 23:49:05 (EDT)
Poster: Tom
Email:
To: tom
Subject: Re: Telling our children
Message:
Ladies and gentlemen, mr. webmaster, mr. satan, mr. buddha, saint chris, op the gopi, richard the tonguemaster,
the brainy brit, the interpretive dancer jw, mr.'i will miss that of course' brian, mr. bag, and the divine ms.D.

Thank you for coming, I mean being here.

In starting out fresh today I leave behind all my memories
and ideas about god and all related subjects.

Now the free living begins. Embraceing my breath, I mean diploma, I venture forth slightly wasted from the examination process.
My feces, I mean my thesis, Understanding God, finishes up half(hopefully!) a lifetime of study.
Like all students, I will party(dance) tonite and forget
everything I've learned now that the exams are over.
The party will begin at my e-mail site in the next few months so do stop by.

tom@rocketmail.com the password is truthreigns
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Date: Wed, Jun 25, 1997 at 00:00:39 (EDT)
Poster: tom
Email:
To: Tom
Subject: Re: Telling our children
Message:
It's a new day!
It's a new dawn.
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Date: Thurs, Jun 19, 1997 at 05:14:38 (EDT)
Poster: Scott
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: What if you don't like the new look?
Message:
Just in case you might have logged onto this site and said to yourself, 'Cute, but now I just have more junk cluttering up my screen', there is still hope for you. Click on the new 'Help' button and read through the stuff and you'll see what I mean.

- Scott
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