Ex-Premie.Org

Forum I Archive # 3

From: May 7, 1997

To: May 14, 1997

Page: 2 Of: 5


Gunther's Mom -:- Gunther -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 15:54:47 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Gunther -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 17:27:06 (EDT)
___Gunther's Mom -:- Re: Gunther -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 18:01:57 (EDT)
___Gunther Glockenspiel -:- Re: Gunther -:- Sun, May 11, 1997 at 00:43:45 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Gunther -:- Sun, May 11, 1997 at 19:53:55 (EDT)
___Gunther Glockenspiel -:- Re: Gunther -:- Sun, May 11, 1997 at 23:52:57 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Gunther -:- Mon, May 12, 1997 at 03:23:56 (EDT)

Gunther Glockenspiel -:- Why? -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 01:35:41 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: Why? -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 02:31:47 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Why? -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 02:54:15 (EDT)
___JR -:- Re: Why? -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 13:16:40 (EDT)
___Gunther Glockenspeil -:- Re: Why? -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 14:32:01 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: Why? -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 14:49:15 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: Why? -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 15:57:49 (EDT)
___Mili to Gunther -:- Re: Why? -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 16:20:00 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Why? -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 17:36:01 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Why? -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 17:42:12 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Why? -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 17:44:25 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: Why? -:- Sun, May 11, 1997 at 01:52:28 (EDT)
___Mili to op -:- Re: Why? -:- Sun, May 11, 1997 at 02:12:04 (EDT)
___Douche -:- Re: Why? -:- Sun, May 11, 1997 at 03:02:11 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: Why? -:- Sun, May 11, 1997 at 09:58:06 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Why? -:- Sun, May 11, 1997 at 19:39:44 (EDT)
___R -:- Re: Why? -:- Mon, May 12, 1997 at 00:15:30 (EDT)

anonymous -:- Chat?? -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 00:56:16 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: Chat?? -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 02:12:42 (EDT)
___Bill Cooper -:- Re: Chat?? -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 09:03:31 (EDT)
___anonymous -:- Re: Chat?? -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 15:47:45 (EDT)
___Douche -:- Re: Chat?? -:- Sun, May 11, 1997 at 12:13:11 (EDT)

Brian -:- Giving Sex to The Guru -:- Fri, May 9, 1997 at 23:28:35 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Giving Sex to The Guru -:- Fri, May 9, 1997 at 23:42:45 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: Giving Sex to The Guru -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 00:31:10 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: Giving Sex to The Guru -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 02:07:26 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: Giving Sex to The Guru -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 03:32:24 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: Giving Sex to The Guru -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 04:01:45 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: Giving Sex to The Guru -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 06:50:32 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: Giving Sex to The Guru -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 06:57:44 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: Giving Sex to The Guru -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 20:21:47 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: Giving Sex to The Guru -:- Sun, May 11, 1997 at 20:01:33 (EDT)
___Gunther's mom -:- Re: Giving Sex to The Guru -:- Tues, May 13, 1997 at 12:28:15 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: Giving Sex to The Guru -:- Tues, May 13, 1997 at 12:36:18 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: Giving Sex to The Guru -:- Tues, May 13, 1997 at 18:41:44 (EDT)
___JW to OP -:- Re: Giving Sex to The Guru -:- Tues, May 13, 1997 at 20:16:56 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: Giving Sex to The Guru -:- Tues, May 13, 1997 at 23:09:39 (EDT)

premmy -:- HI MOM! HI LORD! -:- Fri, May 9, 1997 at 20:50:06 (EDT)
___op -:- Re: HI MOM! HI LORD! -:- Fri, May 9, 1997 at 22:41:49 (EDT)
___Brian -:- Re: HI MOM! HI LORD! -:- Fri, May 9, 1997 at 23:08:40 (EDT)
___Mili -:- Re: HI MOM! HI LORD! -:- Sat, May 10, 1997 at 19:05:47 (EDT)

Jim -:- Taking a break -:- Thurs, May 8, 1997 at 21:31:31 (EDT)

Jim -:- David Smith called today -:- Thurs, May 8, 1997 at 19:44:55 (EDT)
___JW -:- Re: David Smith called today -:- Thurs, May 8, 1997 at 20:18:22 (EDT)

Steve C. -:- What a difference 22 years make! -:- Thurs, May 8, 1997 at 17:35:27 (EDT)
___Jim -:- Re: What a difference 22 years make! -:- Thurs, May 8, 1997 at 20:19:43 (EDT)
___Chris -:- Re: What a difference 22 years make! -:- Fri, May 9, 1997 at 22:46:22 (EDT)


Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 15:54:47 (EDT)
Poster: Gunther's Mom
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Gunther
Message:
Hi, Thank you JW for giving Gunther the right answers. I am talking to him now...as is clear from his post. Chris, stay away from my kid. What we all wish our parents had said when the portly lord sucked us in with the oh so familiar drivel you spouted to my son. YOU LEAVE YOUR MISERY TO YOURSELF. CONVERTING OTHERS DOES NOT LEGITIMIZE YOUR BELIEFS NOR WILL IT WIN YOU GURU POINTS WITH FATSO UNLESS MY SON HAS LOTS OF MONEY TO BUY HIM A BIG PLANE OR A CAR. Don't we all wish our parents had known enough to fight this guy!
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 17:27:06 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Gunther's Mom
Subject: Re: Gunther
Message:
Hi, Thank you JW for giving Gunther the right answers. I am talking to him now...as is clear from his post. Chris, stay away from my kid. What we all wish our parents had said when the portly lord sucked us in with the oh so familiar drivel you spouted to my son. YOU LEAVE YOUR MISERY TO YOURSELF. CONVERTING OTHERS DOES NOT LEGITIMIZE YOUR BELIEFS NOR WILL IT WIN YOU GURU POINTS WITH FATSO UNLESS MY SON HAS LOTS OF MONEY TO BUY HIM A BIG PLANE OR A CAR. Don't we all wish our parents had known enough to fight this guy! Then talk to your kid. Its not my fault your son had to ask his question here is it? What's wrong with you? You and I have different points of view. I am not converting anybody. Haven't you taught your son to think for himself? Are you going to hide him from diverse points of view and experiences just because you are confused?
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 18:01:57 (EDT)
Poster: Gunther's Mom
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Gunther
Message:
Dear Chris, Rather than indulge in an unwinnable net battle let me say that my son and I talked at length about it before he got your response. As was clear from his interesting analysis of the meditation techniques. Since I have never in my life called anyone fatso I hate to hurt people's feelings I apologize for those comments. I was showing my contempt for GMJ as best I could. You are right he will do fine as long as he thinks for himself. As would you.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 11, 1997 at 00:43:45 (EDT)
Poster: Gunther Glockenspiel
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Gunther
Message:
Hi, Thank you JW for giving Gunther the right answers. I am talking to him now...as is clear from his post. Chris, stay away from my kid. What we all wish our parents had said when the portly lord sucked us in with the oh so familiar drivel you spouted to my son. YOU LEAVE YOUR MISERY TO YOURSELF. CONVERTING OTHERS DOES NOT LEGITIMIZE YOUR BELIEFS NOR WILL IT WIN YOU GURU POINTS WITH FATSO UNLESS MY SON HAS LOTS OF MONEY TO BUY HIM A BIG PLANE OR A CAR. Don't we all wish our parents had known enough to fight this guy! Then talk to your kid. Its not my fault your son had to ask his question here is it? What's wrong with you? You and I have different points of view. I am not converting anybody. Haven't you taught your son to think for himself? Are you going to hide him from diverse points of view and experiences just because you are confused? Of course I think for myself. Ask her, I am in big trouble with her. And I don't think I want to think about eating snot anymore than I have to. Or touching my eyelids. I think I am diverse enough. If you don't think so, hey fine by me. Its my life and the guru guy and snot eating can refrain for being a part of it.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 11, 1997 at 19:53:55 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Gunther Glockenspiel
Subject: Re: Gunther
Message:
I have no idea how diverse you are. I was repsonding to your moms attack on myself. Since the earlier posts it seems like maybe your mom and I have a truce. We just see things differently. Probably a lot in common though if we had a long talk. I wouldn't get too carried away with the snot story. You most likely have an interesting mom so be nice to her today. CD
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 11, 1997 at 23:52:57 (EDT)
Poster: Gunther Glockenspiel
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Gunther
Message:
I have no idea how diverse you are. I was repsonding to your moms attack on myself. Since the earlier posts it seems like maybe your mom and I have a truce. We just see things differently. Probably a lot in common though if we had a long talk. I wouldn't get too carried away with the snot story. You most likely have an interesting mom so be nice to her today. CD Hey I will be cool. I will try to refrain from making more snot cracks. Its just so fun. I apoligize for any grief I have caused upon you.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 12, 1997 at 03:23:56 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Gunther Glockenspiel
Subject: Re: Gunther
Message:
Gunther. Really no problem, no grief. I have been into this since 1972 and heard it all. You haven't heard the tip of the iceberg yet. I used to have some curious chats/confrontations in the London subway while leafletting and playing my guitar. I once met a claimed witch who of all people showed up at the nightly satsang. One time a guy on a bus stood up and started screaming at me. Then after a while he actaully had a conversation with me. Jim Heller calls me some choice names on this forum. He has a few lines that could come in handy - g. I am not sure how it will work out if Jim and I meet face-to-face. There is a lot of fast-paced stuff going on these days. Much more hyped action and information then when I was your age. The problem is that the relentless pursuit may not have a meaningful goal down the road. Take care.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 01:35:41 (EDT)
Poster: Gunther Glockenspiel
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Why?
Message: My parents were involved with the Divine Light cult. I am about 17 now and my mom pretty much ended contact with the cult before I was born, my dad (who I am not on good terms with) might stilled have a connection. My mom is a little reluctant or ashamed to answer why she thought Mahaji(sp.) was some sort of God. So I thought I would put the question to you folks. I personally can't understand it and want to look at it from somebody who might want to talk about it so I can spare myself from getting my brain washed. Anything you could tell me whould be much appreciated and I look forward to the replies. Thank you for my time. Do you think my name sounds to fake? I do.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 02:31:47 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Gunther Glockenspiel
Subject: Re: Why?
Message:
My parents were involved with the Divine Light cult. I am about 17 now and my mom pretty much ended contact with the cult before I was born, my dad (who I am not on good terms with) might stilled have a connection. My mom is a little reluctant or ashamed to answer why she thought Mahaji(sp.) was some sort of God. So I thought I would put the question to you folks. I personally can't understand it and want to look at it from somebody who might want to talk about it so I can spare myself from getting my brain washed. Anything you could tell me whould be much appreciated and I look forward to the replies. Thank you for my time. Do you think my name sounds to fake? I do. That is the $64,000 question. I think most premies in the past really believed Guru Maharaj Ji was god, mostly because he said so. I know I certainly did. No wait, he actually said he was GREATER than god. He also allowed himself, without comment, to be called Lord of the Universe, Satguru, The Perfect Master of Our Time (who was in the same league as Jesus Christ, Lord Krishna, Lord Buddha, and Mohammad.) So, I guess that's where the idea came from. It was always kind of confusing because he always referred to himself in the third person. Napoleon also did that.
Since 99.9% of his devotees never talked to Guru Maharaj Ji directly, never knew him personally at all, and only saw him a couple times a year on huge thrones in front of thousands of adoring premies (or in darshan lines where thousands of people were bending over and kissing his feet), and since he NEVER did anything to dispell, or correct if it wasn't true, the widespread belief that he was god, people tended to hold on to that belief. Even intelligent people from degrees from Ivy League schools like me, and OP, who also posts on this site held that belief.
But, apparently, after 1985, Maharaj Ji decided he didn't want to be anymore, or that he never really was, god. AND instead of even bothering to explain what happened prior to 1985, he just dropped the whole thing and now presents himself as a sort of extremely wealthy meditation teacher who communicates through the use of videos and international festivals in places like Australia.
Seriously, as nutty as the above explanation sounds, I firmly believe it to be the case. I don't blame your mother. I have been embarrassed for years to tell people about who or what I thought Guru Maharaj Ji was and that I followed and dedicated my life to him for 10 years. It's kind of confronting to have to admit that to anyone.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 02:54:15 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Gunther Glockenspiel
Subject: Re: Why?
Message:
How did you know about Maharaji and find this site? Did your mom ever say she thought M was a sort of God or are you assuming that? The basic premise is to experience something inside yourself that exists beyond the thought processes of the mind. What is the life inside of you looking out of your eyes? What would you experience if the mind became very still? Maharaji told people that such an experience was possible and gave people a method to try it out. Each person then got to make their own judgement of that experience. Some people were impressed and felt M must be special in some way. He was a tangible symbol of a peaceful possibility. I consider his teaching to be very positive. It leads a person to live inspired by an inner feeling which is not tainted by belief systems or prejudices. Is Knowledge a magic pill? No, it takes commitment and effort just like learning to do anything well does. CD
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 13:16:40 (EDT)
Poster: JR
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Why?
Message:
How did you know about Maharaji and find this site? Did your mom ever say she thought M was a sort of God or are you assuming that? The basic premise is to experience something inside yourself that exists beyond the thought processes of the mind. What is the life inside of you looking out of your eyes? What would you experience if the mind became very still? Maharaji told people that such an experience was possible and gave people a method to try it out. Each person then got to make their own judgement of that experience. Some people were impressed and felt M must be special in some way. He was a tangible symbol of a peaceful possibility. I consider his teaching to be very positive. It leads a person to live inspired by an inner feeling which is not tainted by belief systems or prejudices. Is Knowledge a magic pill? No, it takes commitment and effort just like learning to do anything well does. CD What is a former premie and why even bother. What are former premies trying to hang on to? What is the big deal?
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 14:32:01 (EDT)
Poster: Gunther Glockenspeil
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Why?
Message:
How did you know about Maharaji and find this site? Did your mom ever say she thought M was a sort of God or are you assuming that? The basic premise is to experience something inside yourself that exists beyond the thought processes of the mind. What is the life inside of you looking out of your eyes? What would you experience if the mind became very still? Maharaji told people that such an experience was possible and gave people a method to try it out. Each person then got to make their own judgement of that experience. Some people were impressed and felt M must be special in some way. He was a tangible symbol of a peaceful possibility. I consider his teaching to be very positive. It leads a person to live inspired by an inner feeling which is not tainted by belief systems or prejudices. Is Knowledge a magic pill? No, it takes commitment and effort just like learning to do anything well does. CD 1) My mom was looking at this and I was wathing her over the shoulder, thats how I found out about the site. And I knew of Maharaji from the both of them when I was very young. 2) She said she did think that but now belives he's a dirty rotten scoundrel. 3) The life looking out of my eyes, my mom named Gunther Glockenspeil when I was born. 4) If my mind became very still I'd either be asleep, in a coma, dead, or uncouncius. 5) Knowledge might be a magic pill. My mom says, that this knowledge is some sort of inition where you touch your eyeball? Stick your finger in your ears? Listen to yourself exhale? and Stick your tongue up your throat and taste snot? Now if I wanted to taste snot I could just pick my nose. My mom also says she's going to hell in a handbasket because she shared this knowledge with me. You must have some leak because I see a lot of three year old running around touching the eyes and sticking the fingers in their ears and eating snot at the parks. I think they call it recess... or fun something like that. Thats just one man's humble opinion.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 14:49:15 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Why?
Message:
What do you think? Jim in another dimension? Deena's son trying to make a 'funny'?
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 15:57:49 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: Why?
Message:
What do you think? Jim in another dimension? Deena's son trying to make a 'funny'? Maybe. Or perhaps Hansi... But the followup never should have been posted. It lacked the innocence of the original. Good try though...
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 16:20:00 (EDT)
Poster: Mili to Gunther
Email:
To: Gunther Glockenspiel
Subject: Re: Why?
Message:
Douche, you're unmistakeable - you might change your name to Gunther, or Asat Gurishi... but you always repeat the same old crap.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 17:36:01 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Gunther Glockenspeil
Subject: Re: Why?
Message:
I am sure your mom has good intentions. We all have moms. Take a look at what I wrote in a few years. Think for yourself. Have fun!
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 17:42:12 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: Why?
Message:
What do you think? Jim in another dimension? Deena's son trying to make a 'funny'? Who knows? The points that are brought up do represent a particular point of view. So whoever it is, the virtual debate continues.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 17:44:25 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Why?
Message:
What do you think? Jim in another dimension? Deena's son trying to make a 'funny'? Maybe. Or perhaps Hansi... But the followup never should have been posted. It lacked the innocence of the original. Good try though... Nobody is innocent on this here web page.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 11, 1997 at 01:52:28 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: Mili
Subject: Re: Why?
Message:
Seriously? the Douche is back? I thought of adding his name to my list of possible culprits, but didn't dare. Come out, come out, whoever you are!!!!
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 11, 1997 at 02:12:04 (EDT)
Poster: Mili to op
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: Why?
Message:
Seriously? the Douche is back? I thought of adding his name to my list of possible culprits, but didn't dare. Come out, come out, whoever you are!!!! His name is David Stirling. Lives in the U.K. He can't forgive himself for kissing the feet of a young Indian boy when he was 19, or something like that. Can't forget that, as hard as he tries.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 11, 1997 at 03:02:11 (EDT)
Poster: Douche
Email:
To: Mili to Gunther
Subject: Re: Why?
Message:
Douche, you're unmistakeable - you might change your name to Gunther, or Asat Gurishi... but you always repeat the same old crap. Sorry, Masher, you got it wrong again. It's not me. Honest. My main suspect is Diamond Jim. One door closes and another opens? Douche.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 11, 1997 at 09:58:06 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Douche
Subject: Re: Why?
Message:
'Gunther' is a real person. His mother is too. He (obviously) has never been a premie. She has. I also suspected him as a Jim pseudonym. I was mistaken. Sorry 'bout that, Gunther, Gunther's mom.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 11, 1997 at 19:39:44 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Why?
Message:
'Gunther' is a real person. His mother is too. He (obviously) has never been a premie. She has. I also suspected him as a Jim pseudonym. I was mistaken. Sorry 'bout that, Gunther, Gunther's mom. I had a brief on-line chat with both Jim and Gunther's mom over in that chat area yesterday. They did seem like 2 different people though at the end there was some merging of the psychies. Of course you can never be exactly sure on these systems without some strong authentication. Writing styles are certainly recognizable to a point. She was the one that posted about the chat space and showed up as 'expremie'. It was actually a pretty good idea. Needs to happen here or a lot of advanced warning needs to fe given. But, if this whole crew shows up, the scroll rate on the chat could get pretty fierce.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Mon, May 12, 1997 at 00:15:30 (EDT)
Poster: R
Email:
To: Gunther Glockenspeil
Subject: Re: Why?
Message:
How did you know about Maharaji and find this site? Did your mom ever say she thought M was a sort of God or are you assuming that? The basic premise is to experience something inside yourself that exists beyond the thought processes of the mind. What is the life inside of you looking out of your eyes? What would you experience if the mind became very still? Maharaji told people that such an experience was possible and gave people a method to try it out. Each person then got to make their own judgement of that experience. Some people were impressed and felt M must be special in some way. He was a tangible symbol of a peaceful possibility. I consider his teaching to be very positive. It leads a person to live inspired by an inner feeling which is not tainted by belief systems or prejudices. Is Knowledge a magic pill? No, it takes commitment and effort just like learning to do anything well does. CD 1) My mom was looking at this and I was wathing her over the shoulder, thats how I found out about the site. And I knew of Maharaji from the both of them when I was very young. 2) She said she did think that but now belives he's a dirty rotten scoundrel. 3) The life looking out of my eyes, my mom named Gunther Glockenspeil when I was born. 4) If my mind became very still I'd either be asleep, in a coma, dead, or uncouncius. 5) Knowledge might be a magic pill. My mom says, that this knowledge is some sort of inition where you touch your eyeball? Stick your finger in your ears? Listen to yourself exhale? and Stick your tongue up your throat and taste snot? Now if I wanted to taste snot I could just pick my nose. My mom also says she's going to hell in a handbasket because she shared this 'knowledge' with me. You must have some leak because I see a lot of three year old running around touching the eyes and sticking the fingers in their ears and eating snot at the parks. I think they call it recess... or fun something like that. Thats just one man's humble opinion. Gunther, I know that is not your real name but I seriously don't think that you have to worry about your mom's salvation. Is your first initial O
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 00:56:16 (EDT)
Poster: anonymous
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Chat??
Message:
Do you guys ever chat? I am not a fan of posting as I hate to think about whatever stupid thing I said being posted forever. But I would love to talk to anyone here. I am quite anti GMJ and feel he robbed me of important years of my life. I was in Miami from 1975-1978/79. If someone can think of a site and a meeting time I think a chat of ex-premies would be fun. I am not too net savvy so don't make it IRC, but there are lots of chat sites to invade!
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 02:12:42 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: anonymous
Subject: Re: Chat??
Message:
I guess I am also pretty internet-illiterate, apparently more so than you. How do you invade or create a chat site. I'm certainly willing to try it and I'm sure others would too. By the way, nice to see you here!
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 09:03:31 (EDT)
Poster: Bill Cooper
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Chat??
Message:
Sounds like fun but where can I get some info on rules for using chat site. Whats irc? What sort of time gmt would you be on cos I'm sitting here in Singapore ?
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 15:47:45 (EDT)
Poster: anonymous
Email:
To: anonymous
Subject: Re: Chat??
Message:
I have picked a site and anyone who shows up would be great. It is http//www.healthychoice.com once there I went to adventure travel and then found a path to the chat sites which are health oriented. I will be at the site called newstand and 4pm Pacific Standard Time to see who arrives. If it does not work out I will try another day. I will log on as exprem. You have to pick a screenname and in case the room is busy if we pick recognizable screennames we will easily see what room the discussion is in. Hope it works out!
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 11, 1997 at 12:13:11 (EDT)
Poster: Douche
Email:
To: anonymous
Subject: Re: Chat??
Message:
Well I found my way there but I probably missed you all because I haven't a clue when 4pm PST is! Also, it rejected 'Douche' as a handle! I think it felt it was a little too risque for such health conscious souls! I finally got on as davidpremie and then it siezed! My three year old is now insisting I play her favourite Dr Seuss's ABC CD so perhaps I'll have better luck next time. Let us know whether anyone else arrived for your tete-a-tete. Douche
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, May 9, 1997 at 23:28:35 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Giving Sex to The Guru
Message:
Kurt's thread 'Giving $$ to the Guru' was such a hit on this site, and encouraged so many spectators on the sidelines to swarm onto the field, that I decided to add some spice to his article by starting a thread where anyone can post their most orgasmic darshan experience. I'll go first...

I once felt myself feeling woozy after standing in a darshan line for an hour in Orlando. Don't remember the festival, but it was the one with the floating stage. MJ arrived from the other side of a really cool little lake. We got to stand in an orderly line that was well-patrolled by the WPC (World Peace Corps). They were sorta like Secret Service agents, scanning the crowd and sniffing the air for cream pies. After I kissed MJ's feet, I was hustled off to an area where I could faint if I wanted. I wanted, of course, but couldn't get past wooziness. I was really glad that I had shelled out the money to fly across the continent. There were really cool fireworks. MJ's socks were pretty dirty toward the end of it, tho (Premies are kinda foul-mouthed). MJ almost looked at me as I passed!!! Maybe I'll go to Australia...
Back To Index -:- Top of Index


Date: Fri, May 9, 1997 at 23:42:45 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Giving Sex to The Guru
Message:
Great music, potted plants and ice swans at that Orlando event, huh Brian? Did you try out the square dance or the 'Hotel Life' play? I got a ride from a police officer as my friend and I were hitchhiking to the airport. (in his cop car) He was most impressed by the event as were the other people who delivered us to the airport. I have some good tales from that festival but I can't post them in public. I had a truely great and memorable time. CD
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 00:31:10 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Giving Sex to The Guru
Message:
Look, I said I was taking off and I am. But not before I say, Brian, you are so funny man. Please email me. I'd love to stay in touch. As for you, Chris, I'm not surprised you liked the potted plants so much. Mili, take a course in logic. If you only have a little money, spend it there and forget about finsihing school. The logic's more important. OP, the more you hang here the less I trust you. I think JW's got you pegged. You're here to serve your Guru and that's about it. You're a slightly warmer spin doctor than the aptly-named Mr. Smith. JW, Anon, thank both of you so much. You've really added a lot of concrete analysis to my more scattered quipping. I'm good on my feet, what can I tell you? You guys both deserved to be community coordinators. Now isn't that a compliment? Let's do lunch. Deena, I know we'll stay in touch and will play off each other indefinitely. You're like my sister. Sheesh! I don't know about Regina. Maybe if my plane crashes or something, eh? No, I know, Regina gets those stupid jokes all the time. I acutally liked it a lot when I lived there a bit in Maharaji's service. But I'm sure we'll have you out here first. Bill, I'll email you and will indeed take you up on that offer. David Smith, you should have a talk show. Maharaji you should go on one. Irene, your love for Maharaji is so quaint. Please don't change a thing. Kurt, you and you alone, have the power to change the world!
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 02:07:26 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Brian
Subject: Re: Giving Sex to The Guru
Message:
In the darshan lines, I always looked at him, but he would never look at me, no matter how much money I dropped into the barrel on the way in. I tried my best to get beyond noticing how obese he was and how GREASY! I also recall lipstick on the divine toes and those dirty saliva-soaked socks that I put my lips on. Yuk!
I previously reported that I also had a woozy experience in Toronto in 1974. The rest of the times (and there must hAve been at least 20) it was more trying not to feel nauseous, and feeling guilty because I did.
And the way those security guys standing all around MahraRj Ji, who looked like Dirty Harry, would look at you like you were about to pull out a gun or something, and thu way they would pull you up from the lotus feet by your collar.
I never had a sexual experience in connection with darshan, but I do recall one time right after a festival, where there was darshan, I walked into the satsang hall and saw the community coordinator getting a blow job from one of the ashram sisters. And do you know what? That sister got sent away to a remote reform-school ashram (San Antonio) because she was confused whereas the supposedly-celibate community coordinator$stayed right where was. Did I also mention that GMJ's world was also extremely sexist?
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 03:32:24 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Giving Sex to The Guru
Message:
In the darshan lines, I always looked at him, but he would never look at me, no matter how much money I dropped into the barrel on the way in. I tried my best to get beyond noticing how obese he was and how GREASY! I also recall lipstick on the divine toes and those dirty saliva-soaked socks that I put my lips on. Yuk! I previously reported that I also had a 'woozy' experience in Toronto in 1974. The rest of the times (and there must have been at least 20) it was more trying not to feel nauseous, and feeling guilty because I did. Now you know why M decided not to have any more darshan lines in the west. I guess you weren't around for the post about three weeks ago where I mentioned what darshan was, originally, meant to be. Kissing feet is not part of the Indian tradition. The western premies like kissing, and M went along with it. I'm not trying to uphold or put down any tradition here - just facts, again. For the Indians, kissing M's feet is an act of great DISrespect. Darshan means the physical sight of the master, and the line is simply a way of paying one's respect to him, of thanking him. Some people don't touch his feet in any way, but simply fold their hands Indian style as they pass him. The 'officially correct' thing to do is to place one's forehead on his foot as a sign of respect. You must know that in India this is also done to one's mother, father, mother in law, father in law, revered teachers, etc. It is not outlandish behavior there. I would never have been comfortable kissing M's feet either, but probably for different reasons than you. I didn't. As to why he didn't look at you ... Deena cited a quote from one of her books about the cult leader giving special favors in exchange for money, so I suppose he certainly SHOULD have looked at you, at the very least. Unless he's not a cult leader and he wasn't impressed by your attempts to buy him off. Or he is a cult leader and just didn't realize how much you were paying him. Maybe it had something to do with your inability to get beyond the physical form. I'm not joking now. And I'm not trying to 'serve' him by taking you back to a time that was obviously painful and difficult for you. I've already stated on this site that I don't think M is physically attractive - but there is something beyond his bodily appearance that I find infinitely attractive. And whether this impresses you or not, that part of him is the part of myself that is touched on a level of reality that IS incomprehensible to the logical mind. If your father gave you a toy train when you were six, and you played with it for four years, until it was sent to a distant relative and you never saw it again, you would still KNOW that you had once had that train. If someone with a lot of knowledge of the workings of the mind got you into various sessions where you were regressed and at the same time it was hinted that the train was actually a toy car, and you just imagined it a train because that's what you really wanted, you could eventually be convinced. That's one of the things the mind does very well - accept suggestions. The experiences I have had with Maharaji are as real to me as that toy train would be. They are not suppositions or theories. I suppose that if I stayed on this page long enough and tried my hand at thinking along the lines that (especially) Jim and Deena suggest, I could start doubting my own logic and my own memories. I choose not to. My experience WAS real, and my experience continues to BE real. The only thing that I did to have those experiences was to trust and to open a window that would allow communication with that experience. I didn't know how to open windows - I have never been a trusting person. But I didn't find any obstacle to trusting Maharaji - and even all the negative posts here don't undermine the faith I have, because the relationship IS real. And I never found M's world sexist - I knew a lot of sexist instructors, but one of the things that floored me about Knowledge from the very beginning is that it took me OUT of the whole male/female duality and I was finally able to experience a human being as a human being without constant sexual games.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 04:01:45 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: Giving Sex to The Guru
Message:
JW is certainly starting to sound just like the kind of person that you would expect to turn a couple that he observed having oral sex. I am suprised that he would admit to such a deed in public. I am not having any sympathy at all for these kind of people that fill themselves with the negativity that we see spilling into their posts. It takes a certain amount of humility to appreciate something like the experience of Knowledge. As far as the sexist charge, M has always promoted in public the notion of the life of all human beings having importance irregardless of race, sex or any other physical or socially assigned attributes. CD
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 06:50:32 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: Giving Sex to The Guru
Message:
As to why he didn't look at you ... Deena cited a quote from one of her books about the cult leader giving special favors in exchange for money, so I suppose he certainly SHOULD have looked at you, at the very least. Unless he's not a cult leader and he wasn't impressed by your attempts to buy him off. Or he is a cult leader and just didn't realize how much you were paying him. So if he looks, then he's a cult leader. But if he just pretends that he's bored with the process, then he's the head of DLM? Opie, you almost say in your post that MJ is Lord. Except that you don't say it, of course. Why is that? The experiences I have had with Maharaji are as real to me as that toy train would be. 'River Deep, Mountain High'
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 06:57:44 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: Giving Sex to The Guru
Message:
I posted my email address to this forum, but the archiver ate it. It's brian@worldnetoh.com Feel free to write, anyone.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 20:21:47 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Chris
Subject: Re: Giving Sex to The Guru
Message:
JW is certainly starting to sound just like the kind of person that you would expect to turn a couple that he observed having oral sex. I am suprised that he would admit to such a deed in public. I am not having any sympathy at all for these kind of people that fill themselves with the negativity that we see spilling into their posts. It takes a certain amount of humility to appreciate something like the experience of Knowledge. As far as the sexist charge, M has always promoted in public the notion of the life of all human beings having importance irregardless of race, sex or any other physical or socially assigned attributes. CD Who are you, the church lady?
And hey, I would be the last person to say a blow job is a negative thing. You know what they say: What's the worst thing about not believing in god? -- You have no one to talk to when you are getting a blow job.
By the way, I didn't turn them in. The sister got sent away because she was in love with the community coordinator and that was not okay; that wasn't allowed. The cc, however, got to stay right where he was, and also got at least one blow job.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sun, May 11, 1997 at 20:01:33 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: Giving Sex to The Guru
Message:
No, I was around for your dissertation on darshan in an earlier archive. You make it sound very dry. It never was for me. It was full of kinds of emotion and importance befitting being in the presence of the divine being who was the center and the purpose of my life. Neither Maharaj Ji, nor anyone else who was his representative, family member or devotee, ever did anything to lead me to believe anything else. In fact, the talk about darshan included discussion about as a devotee, you LIVE for the next darshan! I have no disagreement with your current theories about darshan, and they might be the subject of an intersting, objective, discussion, but they have zero bearing on what actually happened for me in regard to darshan lines and the way Maharaj Ji conducted them, especially in the framework of the virtual drumbeat of his satsangs imploring total surrender to Guru Maharaj Ji (to him, although stated in the third person). I understand, as you have explained over and over, that he doesn't do either of those things anymore (demand total surrender or hold darshan lines), but I think you can understand that that doesn't help me much.
I have no idea why Maharaj Ji didn't look at me, but then I had already deposited the money before the chance arose. Sorry, I'm being sarcastic. I didn't believe that you had to contribute money to get Maharaj Ji to look at you; but since he meant absolutely everything to me, I would have been happy if he did. I had no idea whether a look was to be part of the experience or not. Your statments about cult leaders paying attention to devotees to get money are pretty disingenuous, but that didn't apply much to Maharaj Ji anyway. He never paid the least bit of attention to the vast majority of his devotees, even when they were suffering in his organization, and whether in the darshan line or not. [Of course, we believed, and he told us, that he was paying attention and taking care of us from another level, I guess as a divine being from the celestial ether or in meditation.] But then, it also wasn't really necessary for for him to look at us for financial purposes. I would have given all my money to him whether he looked at me or not, and probably whether he gave me darshan or not. But darshan, and the milieu that surrounded it, enhanced the image of GMJ as god, whether he intended it or not. Now certainly OP, even you have to admit that. Maybe it's suspicious of me (who, me?), but I think Maharj Ji got rid of darshan, not because westerners misunderstood it as you suggest, but because he couldn't pull off the image change from perfect master to .......whatever he is now..........if thousands of people were kissing his feet on a regular basis. That just would NOT work, now would it?
Now whether Maharaj Ji didn't look at me because he wanted me to get beyond the physical well, I know he DID look at some people and your implication that he knew whom to look at and whom not to because of what each person needed on the spot, implies his all knowing characteristics that I thought you said you didn't believe anymore. So, you are either being disingenuous once again, or maybe you really think GMJ is god after all, which, by the way, I have always suspected you really do believe.
I don't get the toy boat/toy train analogy, maybe you should try another metaphor.
Regarding sexism in GMJ's world, I think it was pretty sexist. The story about the different treatment of the male and female premies who were supposed to be celibate that I mentioned was just one example. But I think the organization became somewhat less so as the years went on. In the beginning, and probably for about the first 10 years, almost all the leadership was male and the women did the traditional roles of housemother, etc. I think that did change somewhat, but only slightly. But the organization probably wasn't that different from other organizations, especially religious ones (for example the Catholic church; I was once in a seminary and have first-hand experience with that too), it was just a little more surprising, because the membership was so heavily made up of 60s counter-culture types who supposedly recognized and disavowed sexism. The organization was also racist, but we can get into that later, and, again, so are a lot of other organizations.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 13, 1997 at 12:28:15 (EDT)
Poster: Gunther's mom
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Giving Sex to The Guru
Message:
JW speaks what I believe eloquently. I find nothing that I do not believe from my personal experiences in that statement. That was what it was really like. I am SURE that was his motivation in getting rid of the darshan line ( aside from that it must be damn tedious and a little scary having all these people kissing your feet all day) . Remember in 1976 the first time the group tried to mainstream a bit one of the first changes was the darshan line became a reception line. And oh how the premies rejioced when it was reinstituted.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 13, 1997 at 12:36:18 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Gunther's mom
Subject: Re: Giving Sex to The Guru
Message:
JW speaks what I believe eloquently. I find nothing that I do not believe from my personal experiences in that statement. That was what it was really like. I am SURE that was his motivation in getting rid of the darshan line ( aside from that it must be damn tedious and a little scary having all these people kissing your feet all day) . Remember in 1976 the first time the group tried to mainstream a bit one of the first changes was the darshan line became a reception line. And oh how the premies rejioced when it was reinstituted. That's right! I forgot about the reception line at the summer program I attended in Denver in 1976. So, I guess he tried the image change before, but I think because most of us moved out of the ashrams when he did that, and he was afraid of losing his meal ticket, he reversed and entered the surrender and devotion period beginning in about 1977 and extending until the mid-80s.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 13, 1997 at 18:41:44 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Giving Sex to The Guru
Message:
Have you read the Mishler papers recently? Image change was 100% Mishler's idea, and he takes complete credit for it. As for the meal ticket - M would have had it much easier if he'd stayed in India. He had a built-in support system there. He could have done like Sai Baba - never leave his town, and have all the westerners flock to him to hand him the Rolls Royces and Mercedes. He wouldn't have had to risk his life daily flying over the mid-east, through storms... He wouldn't have had to leave his family, as they would have been more than happy to share the pickings with him... He wouldn't have had to spend so much time trying to work out the finances of a flailing DLM... etc. etc. etc. The closer I look, the more I see that we are speaking two completely different languages here. We each have a filter through which everything must pass - both ways - before it can be digested in the brain. I've been trying - not always successfully, but trying - to bypass my filter. If you want 'revenge and retribution' a la Jim Heller, by all means keep the filter on. If you want to come to terms with yourself, Maharaji, what you experienced, I think it would be to your advantage to drop the filer and be free to see things from all sides. Sorry you did't get the train/car analogy. It was just this: through my association with Maharaji I received and experienced something as tangible as though it were a material object. I cannot imagine it away, or pretend it didn't happen, no matter how many people try to convince me.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 13, 1997 at 20:16:56 (EDT)
Poster: JW to OP
Email:
To: JW
Subject: Re: Giving Sex to The Guru
Message:
Have you read the Mishler papers recently? 'Image change' was 100% Mishler's idea, and he takes complete credit for it. As for the meal ticket - M would have had it much easier if he'd stayed in India. He had a built-in support system there. He could have done like Sai Baba - never leave his town, and have all the westerners flock to him to hand him the Rolls Royces and Mercedes. He wouldn't have had to risk his life daily flying over the mid-east, through storms... He wouldn't have had to leave his family, as they would have been more than happy to share the pickings with him... He wouldn't have had to spend so much time trying to work out the finances of a flailing DLM... etc. etc. etc. The closer I look, the more I see that we are speaking two completely different languages here. We each have a filter through which everything must pass - both ways - before it can be digested in the brain. I've been trying - not always successfully, but trying - to bypass my filter. If you want 'revenge and retribution' a la Jim Heller, by all means keep the filter on. If you want to come to terms with yourself, Maharaji, what you experienced, I think it would be to your advantage to drop the filer and be free to see things from all sides. Sorry you did't get the train/car analogy. It was just this: through my association with Maharaji I received and experienced something as tangible as though it were a material object. I cannot imagine it away, or pretend it didn't happen, no matter how many people try to convince me. As far as I know, no one is trying to convince you of anything, OP, I certainly am not. I don't think convincing is even the goal of this webb site, at least for me. You are entitled to believe whatever you like, as am I, and since we can't get inside each others' heads, we really have no idea what is going on inside of the other. I hope you haven't gotten the impression that I disrespect your beliefs either. I don't. But I think in that last post, I did point out a couple of inconsistences in the logic of your position that you still haven't addressed. But then, I don't think you believe that logic has much bearing on how you see things when it comes to Guru Maharaj Ji, so, yes, I think we are to a degree speaking different languages.
I think you believe, although you don't (or won't) say it directly, that Maharaj Ji is a being above normal human beings and does not have to follow the rules that everyone else is expected to follow and is held accountable for. He is just beyond having to do that, such that he is responsible for nothing negative that happens to his devotees, but is responsible for a positive force in your life that you find tangible and real.
For an example of how we think differently, I think anyone who looked at Guru Maharaj Ji objectively, and without suspending the rules for him, would have to conclude that he is very much into material possessions and wealth, way,way, beyond even a Kennedy, and it would be logical to assume that he is motivated to a degree by that. Now come on OP, you have to admit THAT! Accordingly, at least some of the stuff he does is motivated by wealth and possessions and not entirely by a totally selfless mission of bringing fulfillment and happiness to the world. Now, I assume you think none of that matters and he is in the world but not of it (which I think is crap), etc. Accordingly that Boeing 707 project was at least partly motivated by the fact that Maharaj Ji was into it for the material posession of it, and he partly used the devotion his followers felt for him to get it.
Also, he can live a much more lavish lifestyle in Malibu or Miami that he could live anywhere in India. Hence, he doesn't live in India, even though apparently the vast majority of his followers are there. He maintains one or more residences in the U.S. for a mere 20,000 devotees or so. I think he has gotten used to the comforts and wealth of the west and would like to stay there for that reason. The planes, helicopters and automobiles he is so into are much more available here. He has also become very westernized as a person. According to your latest post, you think he is making some kind of supreme sacrifice by ever stepping foot out of India and would be better off there, hence he has little or no motivation for his own material standing. I disagree, based on the objective evidence I have seen. I think stating that opinion does not constitute an act of revenge or retribution. But to you it might seem that way, because you don't think Maharaj Ji should ever be criticized for anything because he is above those types of analyses.
Regarding seeing things form both sides. Well, I think I was on your side for over 10 years and I think I know, to some degree, the way you think because of that. On the other hand, I doubt you have EVER been on my side, and as far as I am concerned, you are welcome to try it.
Regarding coming to terms with myself, the reason I can say the things about GMJ and the cult that I do is because I HAVE gotten in touch with myself over the past 13 years. For the first several years after I left, I couldn't even mutter or even think a negative thing about GMJ because I was still so programmed. Even though I had left I was STILL too afraid to look at him objectively. That took a long, long time to do that and I'm not about to stop.
Regarding revenge, you give me a lot more credit than I am due. I don't think GMJ gave a shit about me when I was his devotee and doesn't give a shit about what I think or say about him now, and I don't think what I say or do will ever result in any feeling of revenge for me or any restitution from GMJ. I don't even think in those terms.
I speak and anlyze the way I do because it makes me feel more powerful in myself. For so many years I was powerless in my surrender to him. Now, every time I look at my experience with him objectively and without fear, which was a strong, strong, element of what kept me following him, I feel just a little bit freer, a little less surrendered to him, a little more taking my life back. He can't scare or control me anymore. I'm more free from him and I can call a spade a spade. And it feels great.
Jim Heller is more outspoken than me, but I think most of the ex-premies here have similar experiences, at least I know a bunch of ex-premies who feel that way. So, we need a webb site to talk about that. I think you can understand that, can't you?
Again, I don't know you from Adam, and you might have the most healthy relationship with the guru that has no fear or authoritarian elements in it. If so, good for you.
Regarding the Misler interview, I think Misler says Mahrarj Ji was really into the changes of 1976, but even if he wasn't I don't think that undermines my theory that he saw what would happen if the ashrams emptied and people looked at him as a humanitarian leader. His lifestyle would be down the toilet. But, and I know you won't like this, I think he has been able to pull that off now, by portraying himself as a sort of meditation instructor and never mentioning all the perfect master stuff anymore. But you think he did that ONLY to benefit you, his followers and the world. Right?
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Tues, May 13, 1997 at 23:09:39 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: JW to OP
Subject: Re: Giving Sex to The Guru
Message:
That's more than a mouthful. I think I have to digest this post a bit before responding. I have to tell you quite honestly that some of my seeming reticence to say things has to do with the fact that, despite the intimacy fostered by this forum, we are on a public page. There are things I would say to you spoken, person to person, that I simply could not write down for posterity and for eyes who have NOT been through that experience that you and I have (even if we do see it from different perspectives). But then I have this other problem. I'm much better at writing than at speaking, so I'm really enjoying this forum. At any rate, this is all in the mode of temporary preamble. Unless your post gets archived into one of those bottomless pits tonight, I should be able to respond to it. Remember that I still have Douche waiting for a different sort of response - one that will take some research because I want to do it right. This one will just take time I ain't got tonight - I'm living on adrenaline from a few all nighters last and this week. Also, I was ready to come on this evening and apologize (yes, again) for being rather insensitive in that last post. I certainly am not trying to make anyone change who they are or the direction in which they are moving. Your post above says a lot to me and I hope I can give it the clarity it deserves. Take care - enjoy...
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, May 9, 1997 at 20:50:06 (EDT)
Poster: premmy
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: HI MOM! HI LORD!
Message:
Do you remember how premies all called Maharaji ..'Dad' and Marolyn ..'Mom'?
Think calling Maharaji 'Lord' is a thing of the past?
It still goes on...
See for yourself!
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, May 9, 1997 at 22:41:49 (EDT)
Poster: op
Email:
To: premmy
Subject: Re: HI MOM! HI LORD!
Message:
I have a hard time seeing how information on the St. Cloud Chamber of Commerce translates to calling M Lord.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, May 9, 1997 at 23:08:40 (EDT)
Poster: Brian
Email:
To: op
Subject: Re: HI MOM! HI LORD!
Message:
I have a hard time seeing how information on the St. Cloud Chamber of Commerce translates to calling M Lord. op - ya gotta stick around and watch the really cool scrolling banner at the top of the page. It was kinda warm and fuzzy just to see it. Wonder why Ray and Connie don't post here? They certainly could sing backup for Mili's Sad Song page.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 19:05:47 (EDT)
Poster: Mili
Email:
To: premmy
Subject: Re: HI MOM! HI LORD!
Message:
Yeah, and for me, Clapton is STILL God.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, May 8, 1997 at 21:31:31 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Taking a break
Message:
I'm going to arbitrarily and romantically perceive David Smith's call as an omen of sorts. It's time for me to take a bit of a break. If you have sepcific questions or comments please feel free to email me. Again it's heller@islandnet.com Time to work and play and get off my ass a bit. Jai Sat Chit Anand!
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, May 8, 1997 at 19:44:55 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: David Smith called today
Message:
So David Smith called me today. I was back for a pit stop between court appearances and there he was. As I remembered him quiet, flat, polite, quiet, ...did I say flat? All right. I told him that I d called because I wanted to know how I we could get some sort of audience with Maharaji. I explained that a number of ex-premies have started talking about Maharaji on this page and that I, for one, would love to finally get some answers from Maharaji. He told me that he d heard of the page. Someone had faxed him a few pages. No he didn t know that he was mentioned here. No, he s not really interested in checking it out. He doesn t have the facility to in any event. (I invited him to my place one day and we can surf together!) I told him that I felt Maharaji was accountable for all the God in human form, savior of mankind, Lord stuff, not to mention his declaration to bring peace to the world. He told me that that wasn t how he related to Maharaji. I asked him if it ever was. He admitted that he used to. I asked him when he stopped. He had no answer. I asked him if he thought Maharaji should answer for various statements. I told him, about people like my friend Dave Wiener (the guy who hung himself in 74). I reminded him about all the rest of us who simply trusted Maharaji and took him at face value. He told me he didn t relate to Maharaji like that. I asked him if, on a basic human level, he thought Maharaji owed us an explanation. He wouldn t say. He suggested I try to reach Maharaji. I asked how. He said write. I said I did. What s more, I knew a bunch of people who wrote long, respectful registered letters who never got answers. He suggested that if that happened there was more I could do. I asked what. He said I could write another letter. I asked him what I should do if Maharaji didn t answer any of them. He said there was more I could do. I asked what. He said I could write another letter. I asked him what one plus one equaled. I asked him if he remembered me. He didn t. I asked him if he remembered Deena, the former contact person in Regina. He didn t at first but then did a bit. She and her husband Doug I told him that a bunch of people had recently vilified him personally on the web site and that he should check it out. He declined. I told him he had a responsibility in my opinion to act as a two-way, not just one-way, communication channel for Maharaji. He didn t agree. I asked him if he could give me Maharaji s phone number. He said he didn t have it. I asked him if he d like to talk with me again. He said yes, sometime after he gets back from overseas somewhere, sometime in July. I said goodbye. So did he.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, May 8, 1997 at 20:18:22 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Jim
Subject: Re: David Smith called today
Message:
Amazing....just amazing. I am really speechless......As big a jerk as he is, I really feel sorry for him.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, May 8, 1997 at 17:35:27 (EDT)
Poster: Steve C.
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: What a difference 22 years make!
Message:
I was introduced to DLM over 20 years ago as a naive but genuine adolescent seeker of truth. I remember the events leading to this very clearly. After a year or so of attempting to practice I gave up deciding that I had to live life without it, even though I had experienced the real benefits Guru Maharaji had taught about. These experiences were in fact nothing to do with any of the external manifestations of the DLM organisation. In fact one of the reasons for cutting loose was the fact that so many of the followers seemed totally caught up in the erzatz Hindu rituals and many seemed to have lost all sense of place giving up real life to live a post 'woodstock'/flower power existence under the camouflage of a second coming based on a heady mixture of eastern ritual and western mass marketing. We had the converted cinema,Palace of Peace in East Dulwich, the charity jumble sales, the visits of mahatmas and the new age gatherings at mega stadiums, Essen '74 Guru Puja? I decided today to dip back into the past at my local library and discovered the name changes and strangely how the trail dried up in 1992. 'No contact registered' I have read or skimmed most of the recent stuff posted on the net tonight. To say the least much of it makes me anxious. New generations are coming through and indeed as we approach the millenium the atmosphere is ripening for all the worlds charlatans to take the stage. To take advantage of the increasing insecurity that the world is experiencing. Much of what will be written here by former premies those who were close to the centre of the organisation and others like me at the farther reaches will be of the excesses, the madness, the blind following. But really, even as a devout sceptic I remember, he always made one particular point on the question of wether he was genuine or not. Practice knowledge. The rest of it is mind. I realise this sounds pious and that for those who have suffered through association with DLM/Elan Vital I seem to be forgetting their loss. I would like to hear from anyone on the subject of Elan Vital and their current activities in the UK to re-visit the past and maybe learn about the future.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Thurs, May 8, 1997 at 20:19:43 (EDT)
Poster: Jim
Email:
To: Steve C.
Subject: Re: What a difference 22 years make!
Message:
Yes and Louis Farrakhan has a few points and so did Hitler. Indeed, if you're a christian you'd have to admit that all the televangelists are good people because at least part of their message is A-ok. Why do you excuse Maharji from responsibility for all that ersatz-hindu-hippie shit? THAT stuff was all part of his message. It was his party and no one elses.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index

Date: Fri, May 9, 1997 at 22:46:22 (EDT)
Poster: Chris
Email:
To: Steve C.
Subject: Re: What a difference 22 years make!
Message:
Phone numbers for Elan Vital events in the United Kingdom are posted over on the page www.premie.com I also remember Maharaji saying to focus on practicing Knowledge to get answers. It is still the same story after 22 years. No rule book or instruction manual.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index